May 14, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode of New York Farm Bureau News Bytes, we sit down with Adam Howell, outreach director at NY FarmNet, and Audrey McDougall, a family consultant, to talk about the essential services NY FarmNet provides to farmers across New York State—from financial planning and business transitions to mental health support and educational training. Recorded on location at North Riding LLC in Cleveland, NY, this conversation highlights the deeply personal and hands-on approach NY FarmNet takes to help farm families navigate both everyday challenges and life-changing decisions.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
When life on the farm gets tough,whether it's financial uncertainty,
emotional strain, or the everydaystress of running a business tied to
the land, New York FarmNet shows up.
They knock on the door, sit downat the kitchen table and listen.
I'm Amanda Powers, director ofCommunications at New York Farm Bureau,
and you're listening to News Bytes.
(00:31):
News Bytes brings you stories andconversations that spotlight the
people and programs supportingagriculture across the state.
Today I'm joined by New York FarmNetOutreach Director at Adam Howell and
family consultant Audrey McDougall.
Together they walk us through howthis unique program provides real time
help to farmers, meeting them wherethey are, literally and emotionally.
(00:55):
This is about more than farming.
It's about supporting thepeople who feed us during the
good times and the hard ones.
Let's jump in.
For free confidential assistancefrom New York FarmNet.
Call 1-800-547-3276.
If you or someone you know issuicidal or an emotional distress,
(01:18):
dial 988 for 24/7 support.
For a life-threatening emergency,call 911 or go to the nearest
hospital emergency room.
Hello, we're talking today with AdamHowell, Outreach Director at FarmNet.
And Audrey McDougall, a Family Consultant.
So Adam, let's start with youtelling us a little bit about
FarmNet and the services you offer.
(01:38):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for having us here.
So New York FarmNet Net is a totallyfree confidential consultation
service, and we're available toany farmer in New York State.
Big or small, regardless ofwhat commodity, regardless of
what type beginning or uh, uh,or an older, uh, type of farm.
We are here to serve New York farmers,again with free consultation, free
(01:59):
advice, and free services thataddress both the financial and
mental health side of farming.
So what we do is we send out toconsultants, usually to the farm.
We do work on the farm in person with.
The with farmers on any number of issuesand we help them lay out a plan to address
any type of, any type of problem, anytype of opportunity, any type of change
(02:19):
that they're having in the farm itself.
And uh, and like I said, we're availableto any farmer throughout the state.
Great.
And speaking of throughout the state,what areas specifically do you cover?
Everything from Buffalo to Long Island.
Everything from Long Island toBuffalo to the north country,
the Mohawk Valley, Hudson Valley,Finger Lakes, Western New York.
Um, we serve, we serve dairy, likeI said, in the big dairy producing
(02:41):
areas, fruit growers in the Lake ErieWatershed, um, and everything in between.
So, uh, we are active all over the state.
We're funded by the state of New York,so, uh, we are, like I said, a free
service for anyone who needs us withinthe boundaries of New York State.
That's great.
So Audrey, it sounds like you haveboots on the ground, so maybe you could
tell us some things that we shouldknow about mental health and farmers.
(03:02):
Yes, absolutely.
Um, so we, you know, wego out to help farmers.
We go to the homes, wespeak with the families.
Um, and mental health is a seriousconcern for farmers and this population.
Um, there are many reasons for that.
We know that there are higherrates of depression in rural areas.
Um, higher rates of depressionand anxiety among farmers
(03:23):
compared to other occupations,uh, because it's a stressful job.
I mean, it's a job that is a lifestyleas well, and there's all sorts of
occupational hazards that go along withfarming and all sorts of unpredictability.
Um, so mental health is a seriousconcern and we know that among
farmers, the suicide rate.
Is three times more, more three timeshigher than the national average.
(03:48):
Um, so it is a concern and it'ssomething that, you know, we
take very seriously at FarmNet.
Um, and I suppose you, you probably do.
Many things on many different days, butwhat, is there a typical day for you at
FarmNet and what does that look like?
You know, the fun thing is, is that thereisn't a typical day, and that's why I
like, uh, working at FarmNet so much.
There is a, a very big sense ofcommunity amongst agriculture and
(04:10):
the local areas throughout the state.
And my job is, is fun becauseI get to tell the story of
the farmers that we serve.
Uh, talk about how we help, uh, farmersacross the state and really also shine
a light on some of the struggles thatfarming, uh, and farming communities
have in these rural agricultural areas.
Um.
We do a lot of different activities.
In addition to, um, the direct consultingthat we do, we do educational outreach.
(04:35):
We do a, a series of, uh,presentations called Talk Saves
Lives and, and Stress Management.
We work on things like financial,um, financial knowledge
for farmers tax awareness.
Um, so there's no one, two, uh,uh, two days that are the same.
It's a lot of fun because we getto be creative in telling these
stories, and I really enjoy thefact that I'm working on the ground
(04:59):
in places like this with farmers.
That's great.
You mentioned Talk Saves lives.
Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Sure Audrey, I, uh, I'lllet you speak to that.
Yeah, yeah.
The Talk Saves Lives.
Um, that is a presentation, acurriculum that is developed
by the American Foundation forSuicide Prevention, the AFSP.
Um, and what it is, is basicallya, a presentation around how to
(05:22):
talk about suicide and how to use.
Conversation around suicideas a way to prevent suicide.
Um, so it really equips people withthe tools of, you know, how do you
express concern to a loved one?
How do you initiate that conversation?
Um, it also provides educationaround the risk factors and the
warning signs, uh, for suicide.
(05:43):
So it's a really informativepresentation, um, that helps
people in the community feel morecomfortable talking about suicide.
Um, with the goal of kind of reducingthat stigma that exists, um, so
people are, feel like they canaddress it and feel like they can
really have those conversations.
Is this something you hold regularlyor do people ask you for these
services, like on an as needed basis?
(06:05):
Yeah, I think both, but typicallywe get requests, um, to go out
and provide these presentations.
Um, I've done several of them onthe Cornell campus for students.
Um, we've worked with the vetschool collaboratively there.
Um.
But yeah, it, we get both, we getrequests and we also can go out
and provide those presentations.
Great.
Yeah.
And, uh, speaking of just yourevery day, what, what about you?
(06:28):
What, what is, whatdoes your day look like?
And maybe you could tell me alittle bit about what a family
consultant for FarmNet does.
Yes, absolutely.
Um, so no two days are alike.
Um, but typically, you know,we go out to the farms, um, we
meet farmers where they're at.
And, um, family consultants in particular,we are social workers, um, or counselors.
(06:49):
So we have a background in mental health.
We have a background inaddressing some of the emotional
difficulties that people face.
Um, and so with FarmNet what we can do, wego out with the financial consultants and
we go into people's homes, um, and we can.
Support the farmer and theirfamily members with having
really difficult conversations.
(07:11):
Um, 'cause a lot of times, you know,these farm transitions that we get
calls about, whether it's successionplanning or retirement planning,
um, or maybe, you know, facing thesale of a farm or a beginning farm
or looking to get into it, right?
These are all transitions thatcome with a lot of stress.
And so sometimes families don'thave the practice or that they don't
(07:32):
know how to begin talking about it.
Um, and how to kind of cope with allthe emotions that they're feeling.
So the family consultants,like our job is really to.
Support that conversation and modelhow to communicate about these issues.
Right.
And I imagine too that because somany farmers work with family Yes.
Members, that adds a whole layer of Yes.
(07:53):
Extra challenges.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Uh, I think, you know how familiesare like, I don't think most of us
envision working with our families24/7 in our workplace as well.
And that adds a whole nother layerof complication, um, when it comes to
communicating and, you know, different.
People have different ideas abouthow the business should be run.
(08:14):
So sometimes there can be conflictswithin families and they really just
need a little bit of extra support anda third party to come in and say, Hey.
Let's sit down and talk about this.
You know, I can help you do that.
So it doesn't have to be justthe old way or just the new way.
Exactly.
It could be somewhere meetingsomewhere in, somewhere in the middle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, you talked about stress andobviously farmers carry a lot of stress
(08:36):
even when things are really good.
Yeah.
What are some of the common stressorsthat you see when you talk to families?
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, I would say one of thebiggest stressors is financial.
The financial pressure of running afarm, especially in today's economy
and you know, farmers, they don'tget to set their prices right.
(08:57):
They're kind of responding towhat's going on with markets.
Um, so that unpredictability in the workis a big piece and the financial pressure.
Um, and a lot of times we'reseeing farms that are fourth,
fifth generation family farms.
And so that pressure fallson the shoulders of whoever's
running a farm today.
And that can be a lot of pressurefor someone to deal with.
(09:20):
Um, in addition to the financialpressure, I would say the unpredictability
of the weather, obviously.
Um, when your income is dependenton the weather, that is a huge risk.
So farmers are carrying thisconstant uncertainty, um, this,
you know, dependency on factorsthat are out of their control.
(09:41):
So I think that adds awhole layer of stress.
Um.
To, to the job.
And then on top of that, youknow, it's physically demanding.
So there's a lot of, um, risk interms of hazards with farm equipment,
um, and the actual work itself.
And sometimes we see people dealing withchronic pain after many years of farming.
And we know that chronic pain can be arisk factor for depression and suicide.
(10:06):
Um, so that can add acomponent of stress as well.
Um, and then I would say the familypiece as we mentioned, you know, working
alongside your family, especially thedifferences between older generation and
younger, and ideas about farm managementand decision making and control.
Um, we do see a lot of stress that Ithink older farmers face in terms of their
(10:29):
identity being so wrapped up in the farm.
And then we also see the youngergeneration taking on a lot
of anxiety about the future.
You know, they're asking questionslike, how am I gonna run this farm?
How much debt am I willing to take on?
Um, so there's different stress factors Ithink, for different generations as well.
And, and when families have tocome together and decide things, it
(10:50):
can be, it can be very stressful.
That's when they need a mediator.
Yes.
Yeah.
So with all this uncertainty, we,we hear a lot about uncertainty.
Yeah.
Um, Adam, are you noticingan uptick in this like.
In requests to FarmNet for this typeof assistance, given the economic
climate and, and the, and thecrazy weather we've been having.
Sure.
(11:11):
And, and one of the things that we'realso seeing is there's, there's.
A little bit more of a willingnessto talk about things and approach
things with regards to mentalhealth in, in agriculture.
You know, one of the interestingthings about our program, we were
formed in 1986, and at the timewe only had financial consultants.
Um, over time those financialconsultants came and reported back.
(11:31):
That there were underlying issues withthe family, with mental health, that,
that were driving the concerns and thestress and the problems at the farm.
Um, but at the time we didn'tconsider that they were, that there
was a, a cultural aspect towardsapproaching mental health and
agriculture, and that's changing.
Um, and we brought on the socialworkers as a means of addressing
(11:51):
both sides holistically.
That's our program model, andthat's what makes us unique.
So we are seeing an uptick, but.
That's not a bad thing in termsof people being willing to ask the
tough questions and address thingslike mental health because we want
to approach both sides of the issue.
It's not just a financial concernwhenever finances lead to stress, um,
(12:13):
and lead to depression or lead to thoseother things like substance abuse.
So, um, there is more pressure outthere in the world happening in, in.
In agriculture, but also we're seeingpositively that people are more willing
to, to talk about mental health inagriculture, which is a good thing.
Uh, it's definitely a stepin the right direction.
I mean, with mental health being sucha multifaceted situation, it sounds
(12:34):
like pharma is also evolving to be moremultifaceted to help out with that.
Um, so you talked about stigma.
Maybe it's improving a little bit now withpeople being able to talk about it, but
when it comes right down to it, how do youget farmers to open up and talk to you?
Yes.
That seems to be the big question.
Yes.
Um.
You know, I think it's interestingbecause there is, there definitely
(12:55):
is stigma out there, right?
So a lot of the communities we're goinginto, um, and I myself, like I grew
up in a small rural community, so Iunderstand the stigma around talking
about mental health and, and explainingto people that you're going through
something or having a hard time.
Um, farmers really have these valuesof like self-reliance and independence
(13:15):
and being strong, being tough, right?
Um, and so I think a lot of times.
You know, luckily we are seeing thatstigma is shifting a little bit, and
I know that, you know, there's beenrecent studies that 90% of farmers
in a recent study said they arewilling to talk about mental health
with a friend or a family member.
So there's a difference in.
(13:36):
Who they're talking to andhow they're talking about it.
Um, but when it comes to professionalhelp, you know, we go in and I think the
most important thing is just authenticity.
So I'm just, I'm goingin, I'm being authentic.
I'm showing curiosity for what theydo and what they're going through.
Um, and I really, you know, I haveso much respect for farmers and
(13:58):
the work that they do and, um, justdemonstrating that respect is a big
part of it in terms of building trust.
Um, and I think, you know, FarmNetis really unique because we aren't
coming in like other mental healthprofessionals, you know, where you
would go into an office and sit downand we really recognize that farmers
have expertise about their own lives andwe're not here to tell them what to do.
(14:23):
Um, so that's, so you'regoing out to them.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Which, not to mention their days are sobusy, they, you know, it's probably better
for them anyway to not have to schedulean appointment and go to a, an office.
Yes.
That might not be close to the farm.
Yes.
That's a big part, and I meant to saythis earlier when we, you know, talking
about mental health with farmers, likeone of the biggest pieces is access.
Many farmers do not haveaccess to mental health care.
(14:46):
Um, because, you know, 65% ofrural counties in this country do
not have a single psychiatrist.
So, you know, that's a huge gap inservices and even the counties where
maybe farmers can access services, theymight have to drive like 50 miles to
get to the nearest mental health clinic.
Right?
(15:06):
And so access to mental health servicesis a big piece of why we're seeing
higher rates of mental health issues inrural places and in farming communities.
Um, you know, and also internet access.
Like many rural homes don't havereliable internet for telehealth.
Um, and so we really need to think aboutlike, how are, how are we viewing mental
(15:27):
health services in these areas and howare we getting help to people rather
than having farmers need to, you know,'cause when are they gonna leave the farm?
And they work like 70, 80hours a week, if not more.
So it's, it's not gonna be easy forthem to leave and go to an appointment,
especially if it's 50 miles away.
Yeah, well, especiallyif it's 50 miles away.
Right.
And finding a therapist is hard enough.
Even if you live in a city, um, thatprocess can be very complicated.
(15:51):
So I think, you know, what we do atFarmNet is really unique in terms
of getting, getting that supportto the farmers where they're at.
Well, I'm, I'm, I'm surprised to hearthat you're saying that 90%, I understand
you're just saying that they mighttalk to family or friends as opposed
to a therapist, but that's a muchhigher number than I was expecting.
So at least they're talking to someone.
To someone.
Absolutely.
Which we'll get the ball rolling,hopefully to talk to a professional.
(16:14):
Yeah.
So that's great.
Yeah.
Um, I'd love for you to tell us abouta couple of, and you can maybe both
share this, some success stories orjust some, maybe some hurdles some
of your clients have gotten over.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So, uh, we've had a lot ofsuccess over the years and.
Yeah, on a variety of issues.
Like I said, we're a very broad program.
We work on a lot of different things frombeginning farming to retirement, but I
(16:34):
would say the ones that stick out in mymind, uh, personally, there have been a
lot of really great succession planningcases that we've helped out with, um,
some of the issues that involve, thatare involved in succession planning.
May not be so obvious to people,uh, when they're thinking about
it, like intergenerationalconflict, um, communication.
That's really where our model bringsin the social workers and family
(16:55):
consultants to help, uh, facilitatethose difficult discussions.
Because a lot of times farmers don'tlike to think about, you know, the
end of their career or how to passthe baton or maybe aren't as accepting
of the newer ideas on how to run thebusiness from the younger generation.
So it's not just.
The legal or tax implications ofsuccession planning and turning
(17:16):
over the business in retirement.
It's also that communication piece and,and really facilitating an open, honest
conversation so that everybody can be onthe same page, especially when there's.
Different members of the family ordifferent areas of the operation that
have different people with differentlevels of involvement, you know, and
different expectations for the future.
So I, I think about succession planning,but really there's a whole host of others,
(17:40):
you know, transitioning a farm frommaybe one type of commodity to another.
Uh, we know that a lot of dairiesthat have been smaller or mid-size
have actually moved into othertypes of commodities as a means of.
Maintaining their productivity andkeeping the farm in operation, so dairy
to beef, um, things of that nature.
So helping make that transition towhere a farm can take on a different
(18:03):
type of opportunity but still thrive.
And, and so we like to seethat as much as anything else.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and I'll just add to what Adam said.
You know, when I think aboutsuccess in the cases that I've
helped with, um, it really, to me.
It's about clients feeling that theyknow how to address their own stress and
(18:24):
they've gained tools in how to do that.
So it's not that they're gonna useFarmNet forever, but they've made some
strides and understanding like, oh,it's okay for me to talk about this.
It's okay for me to acknowledgethat I'm having a hard time.
Um, and one thing pops out in my mind.
I recently had a clientsay to me, you know.
I wouldn't have gone to find atherapist if it wasn't, you know, like
(18:49):
this, if it wasn't over the phone.
The way that we talk every week onthe phone, and you know, it wasn't
someone who has the farming backgroundor the farming knowledge that we
have through our organization, so.
Um, just hearing that to me is success.
Like that shows that that person,um, has kind of shifted their mindset
on what it looks like to access helpand what that help can be for them.
(19:12):
So, um, that felt successful to me.
It must be very satisfyingreally, to, to know that you're
really making a difference.
Yeah.
Like that.
Do you find that, um, as faras the willingness to talk.
Is there a difference between the youngergeneration and the older generation, or
is it just as difficult across the board?
You know, it's so interesting, um, thatyou say it like that you bring that up
because I have noticed a difference withthe younger generation being slightly
(19:36):
more open to talk, but with the oldergeneration, once that trust is built.
I've people open up.
People really do.
You can tell that they've beenwanting to share with someone
and they just didn't know how.
Um, but another thing that I findreally interesting is that younger, the
younger generation of farmers comingup, they're experiencing really high
(19:59):
rates of mental health problems as well.
Specifically anxiety.
Like I just read a recent studythat, um, you know, they surveyed
young farmers in the Midwest and.
70% of the farmers they surveyed metcriteria for an an anxiety disorder.
And it was, it was somethingin the fifties for depression.
And so these are people who arelike 22 to 24 years old who were
(20:21):
just returning to the family farmor, or working on the family farm.
And that number really shocked me.
Um, but it, it does track with whatwe hear from clients at FarmNet where.
The younger generation is alsoexperiencing their own set of
mental health difficulties.
So luckily, yes, I do think there's alittle bit of a difference there, and
I think younger, the younger generationis more likely to talk about it.
(20:44):
Um, I think social media has beenpart of that, but um, in general
there's a little bit more comfort withsharing about mental health, so right.
Funny you should say social media.
'cause I was just gonna say with ayounger generation, that can also be
anxiety and true stress and producing.
So it kind of works both.
True.
It it could be, it couldwork in both ways, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, so I guess for people, youknow, there's always getting
(21:05):
over that first hump of justbeing able to talk to someone.
So if someone, a farmer or one oftheir employees is having an issue.
What are the steps they should take?
Yeah, that's a great question.
Um, I would definitely advise,you know, a farmer or a family
member to speak to someone.
Like start with someone that youtrust and just share to someone in
(21:28):
your life about what's going on.
Um, I would say startwith a trusted individual.
It might be, um, the veterinarianthat comes to the farm.
It might be the, your doctor, right?
It might not be.
The first thing you you're gonnado is call a therapist, but talk to
someone and share what's going on.
Um, and then I would alsodefinitely recommend, um, the
(21:48):
9 8 8 National Not Hotline.
Um, 9 8 8 is a number that peoplecan call or text at any time, 24 7,
and there will be trained counselorsavailable to talk and to listen.
Um, and so that's a great resourcethat anyone can access anytime.
And, um, in addition to that, obviouslycalling FarmNet as a next step when it
(22:11):
comes to getting professional help andseeking out that support for people
who really understand agriculture.
But yeah, I think just starting with atrusted individual and knowing that your
family cares about you, your friendscare about you, you know the people
you work with and interact with on adaily basis understand that stress.
So it's okay to open up about it.
Do you find that in terms of opening up.
(22:32):
Do you find that, we talkedabout stigma, but Yeah.
Are people still afraid oreven ashamed to reach out?
Yeah.
And and in which case, maybe sometimesan anonymous, like a 9 88 might be.
Yes.
Better?
Yes, I do.
I think that's true.
I think there is still that shame,um, and embarrassment sometimes,
especially when it comes to what wesee a lot at Farnet, which is this,
(22:53):
it's a combination of financialpressure, financial decision making,
business decisions, um, that may be.
Aren't going well.
Like maybe the business is strugglingand things aren't working out
the way that the family hoped.
There can be a lot of shame andembarrassment in that, I think especially
in the older generation, sometimesif they've been steering the ship,
um, and then it's, you know, it'stime to take a look at the finances
(23:15):
because the younger generations joiningand maybe the picture isn't pretty,
you know, what they're looking at.
So I think there can be this shameand embarrassment around certain
issues that then translates into.
Self-doubt and feelings of low self-worthand all the things that we see going along
with increased anxiety and depression.
(23:37):
Um, yeah.
One thing I'll just mention is, uh.
That, that's where our modelcomes from, comes from.
It's a learned model wherewe discovered early on that
confidentiality and then going to thefarm are key in getting farmers to
utilize their services and open up.
Because of this, the perceived stigmaof maybe going to, uh, a service
(23:58):
provider in a rural area where otherpeople might know them, um, we found
that it's a much more effective way.
Of, of getting those services to people.
If we make, make sure thatthey understand that we are
completely confidential mm-hmm.
And that, um, we willmeet them in their home.
You know, we have like this informalsaying that the best solutions
(24:19):
are found at the kitchen table.
And that's where we do a lot ofour, of our work is, is meeting with
people where they feel comfortable.
And that's what makes us sosuccessful with getting farmers to
open up and utilize our services.
So.
Yeah, I don't think people thinkabout that when they think about
mental health, like that someonemight actually be able to come to you.
So I'm sure some of your clientsare probably surprised by that.
In general, it's not available.
(24:39):
You know, a, we're very lucky in NewYork state that there is a free program
where we're willing to send people tothe farm because in most places, the
rural area service gap is to extremeto even have within driving distance
sometimes for a farmer to go to a place,let alone have somebody come to see them.
So.
Yeah, and the confidentialitypiece is huge.
Like especially for, you know,when people are already feeling
(25:01):
ashamed or embarrassed, you know,if they think that, you know, the
ag community is a small community,people are gonna hear about this.
That can be a barrier sometimes.
So we really reiterate that.
We emphasize that, you know, everythingwe do is confidential, so, right.
So I guess I wanna end here by, uh, yougiving us your, how do we reach you?
Uh, what's the best way to getahold if I'm, if I need assistance?
(25:24):
Is it the website?
Do I give you a call?
I, I would say, uh, you can go to ourwebsite, nyfarmnet.org or call us.
We have a 24/7 hotline, 1-800-547-3276.
Um, and uh, we will always.
Uh, make every effort to get back tofolks, uh, usually within one or two days.
And, um, if it's, if it's the rightfit, we'll set up a, set up a free
(25:45):
consultation and assign some consultants.
And the other thing I'll mention is wehave consultants all over the state.
So they're local to the area, theyknow the areas that they're working
and they have different specialties.
We try to approach the rightfit for the right case.
Um, but yeah, it's.
It's, it's pre, in my perfect world,every farmer in New York state,
regardless of what their issue is, wouldgive us a call at some point in their
(26:07):
operation because we can provide thatthird party perspective, uh, regardless.
Um, and, and always find some way to help.
So, uh, yeah.
Well, Adam, Audrey, itwas such a pleasure.
Thank you.
Nice to meet you both, and thanks so much.
Thanks for coming out.
Of course.
Absolutely.
Thanks.
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When life on the farm gets tough,whether it's financial uncertainty,
emotional strain, or the everydaystress of running a business tied to
the land, New York FarmNet shows up.
They knock on the door, sit downat the kitchen table and listen.
I'm Amanda Powers, director ofCommunications at New York Farm Bureau,
and you're listening to News Bytes.
(00:31):
News Bytes brings you stories andconversations that spotlight the
people and programs supportingagriculture across the state.
Today I'm joined by New York FarmNetOutreach Director at Adam Howell and
family consultant Audrey McDougall.
Together they walk us through howthis unique program provides real time
help to farmers, meeting them wherethey are, literally and emotionally.
(00:55):
This is about more than farming.
It's about supporting thepeople who feed us during the
good times and the hard ones.
Let's jump in.
For free confidential assistancefrom New York FarmNet.
Call 1-800-547-3276.
If you or someone you know issuicidal or an emotional distress,
(01:18):
dial 988 for 24/7 support.
For a life-threatening emergency,call 911 or go to the nearest
hospital emergency room.
Hello, we're talking today with AdamHowell, Outreach Director at FarmNet.
And Audrey McDougall, a Family Consultant.
So Adam, let's start with youtelling us a little bit about
FarmNet and the services you offer.
(01:38):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for having us here.
So New York FarmNet Net is a totallyfree confidential consultation
service, and we're available toany farmer in New York State.
Big or small, regardless ofwhat commodity, regardless of
what type beginning or uh, uh,or an older, uh, type of farm.
We are here to serve New York farmers,again with free consultation, free
(01:59):
advice, and free services thataddress both the financial and
mental health side of farming.
So what we do is we send out toconsultants, usually to the farm.
We do work on the farm in person with.
The with farmers on any number of issuesand we help them lay out a plan to address
any type of, any type of problem, anytype of opportunity, any type of change
(02:19):
that they're having in the farm itself.
And uh, and like I said, we're availableto any farmer throughout the state.
Great.
And speaking of throughout the state,what areas specifically do you cover?
Everything from Buffalo to Long Island.
Everything from Long Island toBuffalo to the north country,
the Mohawk Valley, Hudson Valley,Finger Lakes, Western New York.
Um, we serve, we serve dairy, likeI said, in the big dairy producing
(02:41):
areas, fruit growers in the Lake ErieWatershed, um, and everything in between.
So, uh, we are active all over the state.
We're funded by the state of New York,so, uh, we are, like I said, a free
service for anyone who needs us withinthe boundaries of New York State.
That's great.
So Audrey, it sounds like you haveboots on the ground, so maybe you could
tell us some things that we shouldknow about mental health and farmers.
(03:02):
Yes, absolutely.
Um, so we, you know, wego out to help farmers.
We go to the homes, wespeak with the families.
Um, and mental health is a seriousconcern for farmers and this population.
Um, there are many reasons for that.
We know that there are higherrates of depression in rural areas.
Um, higher rates of depressionand anxiety among farmers
(03:23):
compared to other occupations,uh, because it's a stressful job.
I mean, it's a job that is a lifestyleas well, and there's all sorts of
occupational hazards that go along withfarming and all sorts of unpredictability.
Um, so mental health is a seriousconcern and we know that among
farmers, the suicide rate.
Is three times more, more three timeshigher than the national average.
(03:48):
Um, so it is a concern and it'ssomething that, you know, we
take very seriously at FarmNet.
Um, and I suppose you, you probably do.
Many things on many different days, butwhat, is there a typical day for you at
FarmNet and what does that look like?
You know, the fun thing is, is that thereisn't a typical day, and that's why I
like, uh, working at FarmNet so much.
There is a, a very big sense ofcommunity amongst agriculture and
(04:10):
the local areas throughout the state.
And my job is, is fun becauseI get to tell the story of
the farmers that we serve.
Uh, talk about how we help, uh, farmersacross the state and really also shine
a light on some of the struggles thatfarming, uh, and farming communities
have in these rural agricultural areas.
Um.
We do a lot of different activities.
In addition to, um, the direct consultingthat we do, we do educational outreach.
(04:35):
We do a, a series of, uh,presentations called Talk Saves
Lives and, and Stress Management.
We work on things like financial,um, financial knowledge
for farmers tax awareness.
Um, so there's no one, two, uh,uh, two days that are the same.
It's a lot of fun because we getto be creative in telling these
stories, and I really enjoy thefact that I'm working on the ground
(04:59):
in places like this with farmers.
That's great.
You mentioned Talk Saves lives.
Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Sure Audrey, I, uh, I'lllet you speak to that.
Yeah, yeah.
The Talk Saves Lives.
Um, that is a presentation, acurriculum that is developed
by the American Foundation forSuicide Prevention, the AFSP.
Um, and what it is, is basicallya, a presentation around how to
(05:22):
talk about suicide and how to use.
Conversation around suicideas a way to prevent suicide.
Um, so it really equips people withthe tools of, you know, how do you
express concern to a loved one?
How do you initiate that conversation?
Um, it also provides educationaround the risk factors and the
warning signs, uh, for suicide.
(05:43):
So it's a really informativepresentation, um, that helps
people in the community feel morecomfortable talking about suicide.
Um, with the goal of kind of reducingthat stigma that exists, um, so
people are, feel like they canaddress it and feel like they can
really have those conversations.
Is this something you hold regularlyor do people ask you for these
services, like on an as needed basis?
(06:05):
Yeah, I think both, but typicallywe get requests, um, to go out
and provide these presentations.
Um, I've done several of them onthe Cornell campus for students.
Um, we've worked with the vetschool collaboratively there.
Um.
But yeah, it, we get both, we getrequests and we also can go out
and provide those presentations.
Great.
Yeah.
And, uh, speaking of just yourevery day, what, what about you?
(06:28):
What, what is, whatdoes your day look like?
And maybe you could tell me alittle bit about what a family
consultant for FarmNet does.
Yes, absolutely.
Um, so no two days are alike.
Um, but typically, you know,we go out to the farms, um, we
meet farmers where they're at.
And, um, family consultants in particular,we are social workers, um, or counselors.
(06:49):
So we have a background in mental health.
We have a background inaddressing some of the emotional
difficulties that people face.
Um, and so with FarmNet what we can do, wego out with the financial consultants and
we go into people's homes, um, and we can.
Support the farmer and theirfamily members with having
really difficult conversations.
(07:11):
Um, 'cause a lot of times, you know,these farm transitions that we get
calls about, whether it's successionplanning or retirement planning,
um, or maybe, you know, facing thesale of a farm or a beginning farm
or looking to get into it, right?
These are all transitions thatcome with a lot of stress.
And so sometimes families don'thave the practice or that they don't
(07:32):
know how to begin talking about it.
Um, and how to kind of cope with allthe emotions that they're feeling.
So the family consultants,like our job is really to.
Support that conversation and modelhow to communicate about these issues.
Right.
And I imagine too that because somany farmers work with family Yes.
Members, that adds a whole layer of Yes.
(07:53):
Extra challenges.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Uh, I think, you know how familiesare like, I don't think most of us
envision working with our families24/7 in our workplace as well.
And that adds a whole nother layerof complication, um, when it comes to
communicating and, you know, different.
People have different ideas abouthow the business should be run.
(08:14):
So sometimes there can be conflictswithin families and they really just
need a little bit of extra support anda third party to come in and say, Hey.
Let's sit down and talk about this.
You know, I can help you do that.
So it doesn't have to be justthe old way or just the new way.
Exactly.
It could be somewhere meetingsomewhere in, somewhere in the middle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, you talked about stress andobviously farmers carry a lot of stress
(08:36):
even when things are really good.
Yeah.
What are some of the common stressorsthat you see when you talk to families?
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, I would say one of thebiggest stressors is financial.
The financial pressure of running afarm, especially in today's economy
and you know, farmers, they don'tget to set their prices right.
(08:57):
They're kind of responding towhat's going on with markets.
Um, so that unpredictability in the workis a big piece and the financial pressure.
Um, and a lot of times we'reseeing farms that are fourth,
fifth generation family farms.
And so that pressure fallson the shoulders of whoever's
running a farm today.
And that can be a lot of pressurefor someone to deal with.
(09:20):
Um, in addition to the financialpressure, I would say the unpredictability
of the weather, obviously.
Um, when your income is dependenton the weather, that is a huge risk.
So farmers are carrying thisconstant uncertainty, um, this,
you know, dependency on factorsthat are out of their control.
(09:41):
So I think that adds awhole layer of stress.
Um.
To, to the job.
And then on top of that, youknow, it's physically demanding.
So there's a lot of, um, risk interms of hazards with farm equipment,
um, and the actual work itself.
And sometimes we see people dealing withchronic pain after many years of farming.
And we know that chronic pain can be arisk factor for depression and suicide.
(10:06):
Um, so that can add acomponent of stress as well.
Um, and then I would say the familypiece as we mentioned, you know, working
alongside your family, especially thedifferences between older generation and
younger, and ideas about farm managementand decision making and control.
Um, we do see a lot of stress that Ithink older farmers face in terms of their
(10:29):
identity being so wrapped up in the farm.
And then we also see the youngergeneration taking on a lot
of anxiety about the future.
You know, they're asking questionslike, how am I gonna run this farm?
How much debt am I willing to take on?
Um, so there's different stress factors Ithink, for different generations as well.
And, and when families have tocome together and decide things, it
(10:50):
can be, it can be very stressful.
That's when they need a mediator.
Yes.
Yeah.
So with all this uncertainty, we,we hear a lot about uncertainty.
Yeah.
Um, Adam, are you noticingan uptick in this like.
In requests to FarmNet for this typeof assistance, given the economic
climate and, and the, and thecrazy weather we've been having.
Sure.
(11:11):
And, and one of the things that we'realso seeing is there's, there's.
A little bit more of a willingnessto talk about things and approach
things with regards to mentalhealth in, in agriculture.
You know, one of the interestingthings about our program, we were
formed in 1986, and at the timewe only had financial consultants.
Um, over time those financialconsultants came and reported back.
(11:31):
That there were underlying issues withthe family, with mental health, that,
that were driving the concerns and thestress and the problems at the farm.
Um, but at the time we didn'tconsider that they were, that there
was a, a cultural aspect towardsapproaching mental health and
agriculture, and that's changing.
Um, and we brought on the socialworkers as a means of addressing
(11:51):
both sides holistically.
That's our program model, andthat's what makes us unique.
So we are seeing an uptick, but.
That's not a bad thing in termsof people being willing to ask the
tough questions and address thingslike mental health because we want
to approach both sides of the issue.
It's not just a financial concernwhenever finances lead to stress, um,
(12:13):
and lead to depression or lead to thoseother things like substance abuse.
So, um, there is more pressure outthere in the world happening in, in.
In agriculture, but also we're seeingpositively that people are more willing
to, to talk about mental health inagriculture, which is a good thing.
Uh, it's definitely a stepin the right direction.
I mean, with mental health being sucha multifaceted situation, it sounds
(12:34):
like pharma is also evolving to be moremultifaceted to help out with that.
Um, so you talked about stigma.
Maybe it's improving a little bit now withpeople being able to talk about it, but
when it comes right down to it, how do youget farmers to open up and talk to you?
Yes.
That seems to be the big question.
Yes.
Um.
You know, I think it's interestingbecause there is, there definitely
(12:55):
is stigma out there, right?
So a lot of the communities we're goinginto, um, and I myself, like I grew
up in a small rural community, so Iunderstand the stigma around talking
about mental health and, and explainingto people that you're going through
something or having a hard time.
Um, farmers really have these valuesof like self-reliance and independence
(13:15):
and being strong, being tough, right?
Um, and so I think a lot of times.
You know, luckily we are seeing thatstigma is shifting a little bit, and
I know that, you know, there's beenrecent studies that 90% of farmers
in a recent study said they arewilling to talk about mental health
with a friend or a family member.
So there's a difference in.
(13:36):
Who they're talking to andhow they're talking about it.
Um, but when it comes to professionalhelp, you know, we go in and I think the
most important thing is just authenticity.
So I'm just, I'm goingin, I'm being authentic.
I'm showing curiosity for what theydo and what they're going through.
Um, and I really, you know, I haveso much respect for farmers and
(13:58):
the work that they do and, um, justdemonstrating that respect is a big
part of it in terms of building trust.
Um, and I think, you know, FarmNetis really unique because we aren't
coming in like other mental healthprofessionals, you know, where you
would go into an office and sit downand we really recognize that farmers
have expertise about their own lives andwe're not here to tell them what to do.
(14:23):
Um, so that's, so you'regoing out to them.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Which, not to mention their days are sobusy, they, you know, it's probably better
for them anyway to not have to schedulean appointment and go to a, an office.
Yes.
That might not be close to the farm.
Yes.
That's a big part, and I meant to saythis earlier when we, you know, talking
about mental health with farmers, likeone of the biggest pieces is access.
Many farmers do not haveaccess to mental health care.
(14:46):
Um, because, you know, 65% ofrural counties in this country do
not have a single psychiatrist.
So, you know, that's a huge gap inservices and even the counties where
maybe farmers can access services, theymight have to drive like 50 miles to
get to the nearest mental health clinic.
Right?
(15:06):
And so access to mental health servicesis a big piece of why we're seeing
higher rates of mental health issues inrural places and in farming communities.
Um, you know, and also internet access.
Like many rural homes don't havereliable internet for telehealth.
Um, and so we really need to think aboutlike, how are, how are we viewing mental
(15:27):
health services in these areas and howare we getting help to people rather
than having farmers need to, you know,'cause when are they gonna leave the farm?
And they work like 70, 80hours a week, if not more.
So it's, it's not gonna be easy forthem to leave and go to an appointment,
especially if it's 50 miles away.
Yeah, well, especiallyif it's 50 miles away.
Right.
And finding a therapist is hard enough.
Even if you live in a city, um, thatprocess can be very complicated.
(15:51):
So I think, you know, what we do atFarmNet is really unique in terms
of getting, getting that supportto the farmers where they're at.
Well, I'm, I'm, I'm surprised to hearthat you're saying that 90%, I understand
you're just saying that they mighttalk to family or friends as opposed
to a therapist, but that's a muchhigher number than I was expecting.
So at least they're talking to someone.
To someone.
Absolutely.
Which we'll get the ball rolling,hopefully to talk to a professional.
(16:14):
Yeah.
So that's great.
Yeah.
Um, I'd love for you to tell us abouta couple of, and you can maybe both
share this, some success stories orjust some, maybe some hurdles some
of your clients have gotten over.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So, uh, we've had a lot ofsuccess over the years and.
Yeah, on a variety of issues.
Like I said, we're a very broad program.
We work on a lot of different things frombeginning farming to retirement, but I
(16:34):
would say the ones that stick out in mymind, uh, personally, there have been a
lot of really great succession planningcases that we've helped out with, um,
some of the issues that involve, thatare involved in succession planning.
May not be so obvious to people,uh, when they're thinking about
it, like intergenerationalconflict, um, communication.
That's really where our model bringsin the social workers and family
(16:55):
consultants to help, uh, facilitatethose difficult discussions.
Because a lot of times farmers don'tlike to think about, you know, the
end of their career or how to passthe baton or maybe aren't as accepting
of the newer ideas on how to run thebusiness from the younger generation.
So it's not just.
The legal or tax implications ofsuccession planning and turning
(17:16):
over the business in retirement.
It's also that communication piece and,and really facilitating an open, honest
conversation so that everybody can be onthe same page, especially when there's.
Different members of the family ordifferent areas of the operation that
have different people with differentlevels of involvement, you know, and
different expectations for the future.
So I, I think about succession planning,but really there's a whole host of others,
(17:40):
you know, transitioning a farm frommaybe one type of commodity to another.
Uh, we know that a lot of dairiesthat have been smaller or mid-size
have actually moved into othertypes of commodities as a means of.
Maintaining their productivity andkeeping the farm in operation, so dairy
to beef, um, things of that nature.
So helping make that transition towhere a farm can take on a different
(18:03):
type of opportunity but still thrive.
And, and so we like to seethat as much as anything else.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and I'll just add to what Adam said.
You know, when I think aboutsuccess in the cases that I've
helped with, um, it really, to me.
It's about clients feeling that theyknow how to address their own stress and
(18:24):
they've gained tools in how to do that.
So it's not that they're gonna useFarmNet forever, but they've made some
strides and understanding like, oh,it's okay for me to talk about this.
It's okay for me to acknowledgethat I'm having a hard time.
Um, and one thing pops out in my mind.
I recently had a clientsay to me, you know.
I wouldn't have gone to find atherapist if it wasn't, you know, like
(18:49):
this, if it wasn't over the phone.
The way that we talk every week onthe phone, and you know, it wasn't
someone who has the farming backgroundor the farming knowledge that we
have through our organization, so.
Um, just hearing that to me is success.
Like that shows that that person,um, has kind of shifted their mindset
on what it looks like to access helpand what that help can be for them.
(19:12):
So, um, that felt successful to me.
It must be very satisfyingreally, to, to know that you're
really making a difference.
Yeah.
Like that.
Do you find that, um, as faras the willingness to talk.
Is there a difference between the youngergeneration and the older generation, or
is it just as difficult across the board?
You know, it's so interesting, um, thatyou say it like that you bring that up
because I have noticed a difference withthe younger generation being slightly
(19:36):
more open to talk, but with the oldergeneration, once that trust is built.
I've people open up.
People really do.
You can tell that they've beenwanting to share with someone
and they just didn't know how.
Um, but another thing that I findreally interesting is that younger, the
younger generation of farmers comingup, they're experiencing really high
(19:59):
rates of mental health problems as well.
Specifically anxiety.
Like I just read a recent studythat, um, you know, they surveyed
young farmers in the Midwest and.
70% of the farmers they surveyed metcriteria for an an anxiety disorder.
And it was, it was somethingin the fifties for depression.
And so these are people who arelike 22 to 24 years old who were
(20:21):
just returning to the family farmor, or working on the family farm.
And that number really shocked me.
Um, but it, it does track with whatwe hear from clients at FarmNet where.
The younger generation is alsoexperiencing their own set of
mental health difficulties.
So luckily, yes, I do think there's alittle bit of a difference there, and
I think younger, the younger generationis more likely to talk about it.
(20:44):
Um, I think social media has beenpart of that, but um, in general
there's a little bit more comfort withsharing about mental health, so right.
Funny you should say social media.
'cause I was just gonna say with ayounger generation, that can also be
anxiety and true stress and producing.
So it kind of works both.
True.
It it could be, it couldwork in both ways, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, so I guess for people, youknow, there's always getting
(21:05):
over that first hump of justbeing able to talk to someone.
So if someone, a farmer or one oftheir employees is having an issue.
What are the steps they should take?
Yeah, that's a great question.
Um, I would definitely advise,you know, a farmer or a family
member to speak to someone.
Like start with someone that youtrust and just share to someone in
(21:28):
your life about what's going on.
Um, I would say startwith a trusted individual.
It might be, um, the veterinarianthat comes to the farm.
It might be the, your doctor, right?
It might not be.
The first thing you you're gonnado is call a therapist, but talk to
someone and share what's going on.
Um, and then I would alsodefinitely recommend, um, the
(21:48):
9 8 8 National Not Hotline.
Um, 9 8 8 is a number that peoplecan call or text at any time, 24 7,
and there will be trained counselorsavailable to talk and to listen.
Um, and so that's a great resourcethat anyone can access anytime.
And, um, in addition to that, obviouslycalling FarmNet as a next step when it
(22:11):
comes to getting professional help andseeking out that support for people
who really understand agriculture.
But yeah, I think just starting with atrusted individual and knowing that your
family cares about you, your friendscare about you, you know the people
you work with and interact with on adaily basis understand that stress.
So it's okay to open up about it.
Do you find that in terms of opening up.
(22:32):
Do you find that, we talkedabout stigma, but Yeah.
Are people still afraid oreven ashamed to reach out?
Yeah.
And and in which case, maybe sometimesan anonymous, like a 9 88 might be.
Yes.
Better?
Yes, I do.
I think that's true.
I think there is still that shame,um, and embarrassment sometimes,
especially when it comes to what wesee a lot at Farnet, which is this,
(22:53):
it's a combination of financialpressure, financial decision making,
business decisions, um, that may be.
Aren't going well.
Like maybe the business is strugglingand things aren't working out
the way that the family hoped.
There can be a lot of shame andembarrassment in that, I think especially
in the older generation, sometimesif they've been steering the ship,
um, and then it's, you know, it'stime to take a look at the finances
(23:15):
because the younger generations joiningand maybe the picture isn't pretty,
you know, what they're looking at.
So I think there can be this shameand embarrassment around certain
issues that then translates into.
Self-doubt and feelings of low self-worthand all the things that we see going along
with increased anxiety and depression.
(23:37):
Um, yeah.
One thing I'll just mention is, uh.
That, that's where our modelcomes from, comes from.
It's a learned model wherewe discovered early on that
confidentiality and then going to thefarm are key in getting farmers to
utilize their services and open up.
Because of this, the perceived stigmaof maybe going to, uh, a service
(23:58):
provider in a rural area where otherpeople might know them, um, we found
that it's a much more effective way.
Of, of getting those services to people.
If we make, make sure thatthey understand that we are
completely confidential mm-hmm.
And that, um, we willmeet them in their home.
You know, we have like this informalsaying that the best solutions
(24:19):
are found at the kitchen table.
And that's where we do a lot ofour, of our work is, is meeting with
people where they feel comfortable.
And that's what makes us sosuccessful with getting farmers to
open up and utilize our services.
So.
Yeah, I don't think people thinkabout that when they think about
mental health, like that someonemight actually be able to come to you.
So I'm sure some of your clientsare probably surprised by that.
In general, it's not available.
(24:39):
You know, a, we're very lucky in NewYork state that there is a free program
where we're willing to send people tothe farm because in most places, the
rural area service gap is to extremeto even have within driving distance
sometimes for a farmer to go to a place,let alone have somebody come to see them.
So.
Yeah, and the confidentialitypiece is huge.
Like especially for, you know,when people are already feeling
(25:01):
ashamed or embarrassed, you know,if they think that, you know, the
ag community is a small community,people are gonna hear about this.
That can be a barrier sometimes.
So we really reiterate that.
We emphasize that, you know, everythingwe do is confidential, so, right.
So I guess I wanna end here by, uh, yougiving us your, how do we reach you?
Uh, what's the best way to getahold if I'm, if I need assistance?
(25:24):
Is it the website?
Do I give you a call?
I, I would say, uh, you can go to ourwebsite, nyfarmnet.org or call us.
We have a 24/7 hotline, 1-800-547-3276.
Um, and uh, we will always.
Uh, make every effort to get back tofolks, uh, usually within one or two days.
And, um, if it's, if it's the rightfit, we'll set up a, set up a free
(25:45):
consultation and assign some consultants.
And the other thing I'll mention is wehave consultants all over the state.
So they're local to the area, theyknow the areas that they're working
and they have different specialties.
We try to approach the rightfit for the right case.
Um, but yeah, it's.
It's, it's pre, in my perfect world,every farmer in New York state,
regardless of what their issue is, wouldgive us a call at some point in their
(26:07):
operation because we can provide thatthird party perspective, uh, regardless.
Um, and, and always find some way to help.
So, uh, yeah.
Well, Adam, Audrey, itwas such a pleasure.
Thank you.
Nice to meet you both, and thanks so much.
Thanks for coming out.
Of course.
Absolutely.
Thanks.
Farmers businesses and ruralcommunities are stronger together.
Join New York Farm Bureau and bepart of the voice that protects and
(26:29):
supports agriculture across the state.
Get access to valuable benefits.
Advocate for policies thatmatter and connect with a
network of farmers just like you.
Visit nyb.org.
Reach out to your local county farm bureauor call one 1-800-342-4143 and press zero.
That's 1-800-342-4143 andpress zero and join today.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!