February 22, 2024 • 34 mins
In this candid interview, Olivia Fuller, a fourth-generation farmer from Washington County, New York, shares her personal experience of transitioning Fuller Acres, a diversified beef and maple farm, from her father to herself. Olivia discusses the emotional and logistical challenges she and her family faced during the multi-year process, including navigating conversations around the farm's future, diversifying operations, and ultimately transferring ownership. She highlights the importance of open communication, trust, and respecting the legacy of the senior generation while also honoring their vision. Olivia's story provides valuable insights and lessons for farm families considering generational transitions, emphasizing the need for patience, perseverance, and a shared commitment to keeping the farm in operation.
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Farmland transition is so important to farm families and the next generation of farmers.
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But when is the right time to start moving in that direction?
Today on News Bites, we explore that question with someone who just went through the process.
Hi, I'm Steve Ammerman, Director of Communications for New York Farm Bureau, and welcome to News
Bites.
Olivia Fuller is now the owner of Fuller Acres, a beef farm that continues to diversify in
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Washington County, New York.
Her family has a long history on the farm, and now it's her turn to carry on that tradition
of working the land and feeding her community.
But the process to get there isn't a quick one.
Working with her dad, she and her partner navigated that journey and worked through
some emotional issues to get there.
Well, today, Olivia speaks about the past several years and the lessons she learned
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that can help others looking to go through the process.
Hi, Olivia, it's so good to have you on News Bites today talking about a very personal
experience for you as your farm has transitioned from your father and your family to you and
all that that's meant to you and has brought to your family.
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So I kind of just wanted to dig deep into that and start off with simply tell us a little
bit about your farm and your family.
Yeah.
Thanks, Steve, for having me.
I'm really excited to be here.
So our farm, Fulleracres Farm, is in Washington County, New York, a small town called Fort
Ann.
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I'm the fourth generation farmer to be farming in our valley, what we call Welsh Hollow.
I come from a farming family on both sides of my family.
So on my dad's side, we have been primarily dairy farmers, milking 100 cows for the last
three generations.
And my mom's side of the family, they were actually corn and soybean and hog farmers
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in Iowa.
So really a deep agricultural roots on both sides of my family.
And I probably couldn't escape it if I wanted to.
Well, that's probably a good thing.
And I know you also do some maple as well.
So it really is a diversified farm and it's continuing to diversify.
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What brought you back to the farm?
What made you say, you know what, I want to be that next generation?
Yeah, I think a lot of different factors came into play bringing me back to the farm.
I think it was kind of always kind of in the cards for me, even if I didn't realize it
growing up.
It's just how I grew up and so deeply immersed in who I am.
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And it took going away from the farm for a few years in college and early adulthood,
I think to really understand and appreciate that and to kind of see other types of farming.
I think growing up, I was just so immersed in dairy farming and didn't really think of
there being other ways to farm.
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We've been in my immediate region and on my specific farm, my dad was always a dairy farmer.
That's what he wanted to do and who he wanted to be.
And then in the late winter and early spring, we made maple syrup.
But other than that, we were dairy farmers.
So it was hard for me to really picture myself doing anything else on the farm.
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And my partner, Tom, he had been on our farm working since high school.
And so he was always immersed in the farm and playing a really important role.
But neither of us were thinking we're going to be dairy farmers.
We love the land.
We loved being on the farm, working together, helping my dad.
But dairy farming is really, really hard work.
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And you have to be committed twice a day, milking 365 days a year.
You really have to love what you do.
And that was a big commitment that I wasn't ready to take.
And so when I left the farm and went to college, I studied communications.
I always enjoyed writing.
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I thought maybe I'll be a magazine editor or something like that.
And I'll come back to the farm someday and we'll have more of like a hobby farm.
But that's not what happened.
So what happened was I went to college and studied communications.
And about a year after finishing my degree, I came across a job for American Farmland
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Trust.
And they are a national agricultural nonprofit working to protect farmland, keep farmers
on the land, and promote sound farming practices.
And I was just blown away that I could find a job that was both marrying my passion for
farming with my skills and communication.
So I started working at that job.
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And that just really opened so many pathways for me for just seeing different types of
agriculture, even just in our state, and seeing other farms all across the state and different
scales, different types of farming, different types of farmers, and especially working more
in our next generation kind of programming, just seeing the amount of young and beginning
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farmers who were eager to get onto the land.
And it started to really dawn on me how much I had back at the farm.
And that I had this thing that so many people are dreaming of and working so hard to get
access to land.
And that combined with my partner studying beef and livestock at Cobolskill and seeing
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different ways of farming in that setting just kind of all came together and got us
thinking maybe we can come back to the farm and we can both help my dad and take things
in a slightly different direction.
And that's what you did.
I mean, you saw an opportunity.
And like you said, you were privileged enough to have that opportunity.
And it really was just about timing too.
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I think a lot of it.
So you went to your dad and I'm sure it wasn't just like a one-time conversation that you
had with him.
But your first step was trying to figure out what were you and your partner wanted to take
the farm, but also respect your father as well in that process.
Yeah, absolutely.
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And it's really evolved over time.
So when we started to have these conversations, I think back on it and I was thinking and
I had ideas around like starting a farmstead creamery.
I was thinking we already have a dairy.
How great would it be to have like a farmstead creamery?
I love cheese.
But as I started to really like start to explore that path, I realized that takes a lot of
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investment and infrastructure.
And we started to have conversations around the table about different ways to diversify
the farm and bring us into the farm business.
And I'd say that the conservation easement was really the catalyst for us having those
conversations.
So around 2016, my dad had found out about an opportunity to apply for the State Farm
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and Protection Program through our local land trust, Agricultural Stewardship Association.
He attended a workshop and was really excited about that.
And also aligned to the work I was doing, which is just the cool timing of I was learning
about farmland conservation and he was also just interested in doing it for our farm.
So we kind of walked down that path together and it got us talking about what else could
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the farm be?
If we do this thing that keeps our farm in farming forever, that really sparks the longer
term conversation.
And so we started talking about ways we could potentially partner.
You're thinking about like maybe doing some dairy.
But then the idea that really stuck was starting to transition to beef.
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So the great thing about that was we already had the cows and we had a mixed herd of mostly
Holstein's, also some Jersey's and Frown Swift's.
But we weren't really needing to grow our dairy herd at that point.
My dad had a pretty solid herd.
We were trying to stay small anyways.
So it just made sense to start breeding those dairy animals to beef breed.
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And so we started to have Angus and Herford Crosses born on the farm.
And that was a way with very little input to be able to start to grow a new business
enterprise.
And we always had a couple of beef on the side for ourselves, but this was our first
foray into actually selling meat from the farm.
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And so that was an opportunity for me to really use the skills that I had and the background
I had in marketing and communications and also just being willing to go out and talk
to people and ask questions to learn about what does it take to actually sell meat from
the farm and to have it USDA processed and how do you stop those marketing channels and
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all of that.
So I kind of took that on and that was my way of really putting some skin in the game.
Like you're giving time and energy to start to grow this business.
And at that point, I wasn't really getting anything out of it besides the fact that I
was on the farm and helping my dad and enjoying it in that way.
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But I think that's something for the next generation to keep in mind is you might have
to do some things that are giving of yourself and of your time to help the senior generation
while you're figuring out what you want to do.
So there might be some give and take there where you're not immediately going to profit
off of what you're doing, but being able to contribute to the farm and kind of show what
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else is possible can be a really good way to go.
And that really was, you know, maybe not an easy process, but a long process to start
making that actual transition of what you produce, what you market, how the income streams
are changing.
But then comes the next step of that transition where you become the owner and you took over
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the land and those responsibilities as well.
While also, you know, your dad has remained a part of that.
And again, I know that that's never an easy process.
You know, you did have assistance from the Land is Your Legacy program, a program that
New York Farm Bureau works with with Nationwide Insurance.
Your dad got a, I guess, a postcard in the mail that really helped you in the end.
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Can you talk a little bit about what that process was like?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
This has been a very long process in the making.
And I think a lot of people understand that with transition planning.
And I think that's why a lot of people avoid it, is because it really is a long game.
So I'd say our conversations really started around the time that we decided to pursue
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the conservation easement in 2016 and 2017 when we were awarded.
And it was just a slow conversation since then.
And in the beginning, we weren't really talking about the actual land transfer.
That was a big topic.
So we took baby steps.
We talked about diversifying the business and getting us to the point where we could
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be on the farm and living there.
We could both be making a living from the land.
And I'm working off farm as well.
So it wasn't that I was completely, you know, I wasn't making a living off the land, but
I was able to be here and help support the farm business.
The Land is Your Legacy program and the New York Farm Bureau workshop really came at a
really critical time for us to be making those bigger decisions.
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So we had gotten pretty established in growing the beef herd.
I was feeling pretty established in, yes, this is where I want to be and what I want
to do.
We were starting to also add some different livestock enterprises with pastured pork and
some lamb as well.
It got to be the point where the dairy was starting to hinder our ability to move our
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business forward.
And it was also hindering my dad because it was losing money every year.
And there's only so many years that you can do that just out of the passion of loving
what you do.
And it's the point where you've got to be able to make a decision and change things.
So when my dad got the postcard in the mail from the New York Farm Bureau for this workshop
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and told me, hey, there's this transition planning workshop at Washington County Fairgrounds.
You want to go?
I was absolutely on board.
And so it was really helpful to have something that we could go to in person.
We've been going through this process over the years of the pandemic too.
So we started this in 2017 and have continued on through 2020 and all of those challenges.
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So a lot of service providers couldn't meet us in person.
And we still did receive a lot of support virtually.
And I've had a colleague at American Farmland Trust, Kim Bella, who has been a through line
for me through this process and has really helped me figure out who to talk to along
the way and bounce ideas off of.
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The Land is Your Legacy program and that transition workshop came into the picture, I think it
was November 2022.
And we were still milking cows at that time.
I was spending a lot of time helping with the dairy farm as was my partner.
And so we were giving a lot of our energy into just keeping the dairy going.
My dad had had a hip replacement surgery and he was just physically having a hard time
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keeping up with the demands of being a full-time dairy farmer.
So when this workshop came about and we were able to go into the room and see, I think
especially for him to see other farmers who were in a similar position, that it's not
just him that having these challenges and needing to make this next decision for his
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business and his livelihood, I think that really helped.
And that also gave us the introduction to Henry Manstein through the Land is Your Legacy
program.
And from that point on, we were also connected through Scott Keyes at New York Farm Bureau,
kind of helped us get connected and get tapped into that program.
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And then we really embarked on making some decisions to really transition the farm in
the sense of the land.
And so that's a really complicated process.
And so it took meeting with attorneys and other advisors, business advisors.
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And what would you say was perhaps the biggest challenge?
Was it that the logistics, the legalities, was it the emotional side of things in particular
for your father?
What was perhaps the hardest pitfall that you had to get across?
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That's a great question.
I would say the biggest challenge was the emotional piece.
I mean, the logistics are also challenging and just needing to be patient and persevere
through the hoops that you need to jump through and all of the ducks that you need to get
in a row.
But really having the grace with your family to go down this process and to confront things
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like mortality.
And that this is a really big decision.
And being the next generation, you might be really excited about all the new things you're
going to do and taking the farm in a new direction.
We have to remember that the senior generation is winding down from a lifetime of hard work
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and all the dedication they've given to the land and what they've built.
And so it's really important for me that I'm also, as we take things in a new direction,
that we're also honoring all of what my dad has put into the farm business.
The one thing I'm really proud of is that right now we are renovating what was our milking
parlor into our self-serve farm store.
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And so we are really taking a building that he has spent so many years, decades, seven
decades of his, well, not that long because he actually built the milking parlor in the
late seventies into the early eighties.
And so he had been on the farm milking cows in a tie stall barn long before that.
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But the milking parlor was really his kind of vision for the future when he was my age.
So when he was taking things over, he designed his milking parlor and his free stall barn.
And that was his kind of his addition to the farm and the mark that he left.
And to be able to come in as a next generation and now take that building and give it new
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life as our self-serve farm store is really exciting.
We're even using boards that he milled for the original barn.
And we're using those as our boards on our wall of the farm store.
So being able to really keep that legacy alive and give it new life.
So it's not just a building that is sitting empty and vacant and that we're actually using
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that building on that and just really carrying that legacy forward.
And that's really been important for me.
Really honoring the past in that way.
And your dad is still involved in the farm too.
It's not like he just stepped away.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
So we're really lucky and grateful that he is able to and wanting to be involved in the
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farm business.
And I think that's another thing to really keep in mind as well is how can you continue
to work together if that's what both sides of the family desire.
And so I know I'm talking a lot about intergenerational farm transition within families.
And because that's my experience and that's my lens.
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But it's also really challenging for and maybe even more challenging for a new generation
who doesn't have a farm family they're coming into.
Even for those senior farmers who don't have a new generation in their family that is either
able or willing or wanting to come into the farm business.
So that I think is even more challenging when you're not even in the same room together
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and growing up together and having that family connection is how do you bridge that divide
with somebody entirely new to your business.
And so that's a huge challenge.
But it is something that I think is definitely possible to work around and to make those
connections especially for young farmers who get out there in the community and get to
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know the farms in their area, attend farm bureau meetings, get to know the farmers who
are in their communities and be willing to I think some of the same principles apply
of being willing to step in and help and get involved with the senior generation and have
a little bit of like a mentorship between one generation to the next.
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And you might find an opportunity presents itself to kind of be able to access land in
that way.
And we have through American Farmland Trust we have a farmland finder website through
our farmland new generation New York program where there's hundreds of farm properties
listed in New York state that are looking for farmers to lease or purchase land.
And well, I mean, it's interesting to what you're saying, though, but no transition is
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like any other.
They all have their challenges and opportunities.
And I would assume in some instances for some farm families that might be easier to transition
if you're not a part of the family.
We've heard stories that were it's incredibly difficult within the family.
But it's important, I think, if nothing else, that like you're doing here, you're talking
about it.
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You're raising awareness about that there are options available and there's help available,
which is really important.
And I think people can learn just from your story and how you've moved through things.
And hopefully they can try and find something in your story that will help them in theirs
as well as they move through.
And as you look now, you're the main farm owner on the farm.
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What you see as maybe a challenge that you hadn't thought about prior and what do you
see as your opportunity as you're looking to grow in a new direction?
Thank you.
I say farming is ripe with challenges, but I think having the right attitude to face
them is everything.
But I say challenge that I face as the next generation.
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And I think a lot of farmers are increasingly in this position where they are not only farming,
they're also working additional jobs.
And I was really lucky in the fact that I was working for an organization that was supportive
of agriculture.
And just kind of a perfect storm of when I came back to the farm more full-time, I was
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20, 20, and we were able to transition to working remotely.
And I don't think I would have been able to grow the business in the way that I have if
I didn't have that flexibility to be on the farm and doing things during the workday and
have that kind of flexibility to have a full-time job and be farming.
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And I think that just the balance of that time is the real challenge because I want
to give 100% to everything I do and I want to give 100% to the farm.
I want to give 100% to my job.
And so just finding the striking the balance between what I can do in a given day and where
the seasons are really the most important, what seasons are really important for me to
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focus on my off-farm work and what seasons are really important for me to really dig
into farming.
That's been a learning curve for me and one that I think I've started to hit my stride
in but it's always a challenge.
And I think that's going to be the case for more farmers in the next generation who are
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balancing off-farm jobs and wearing many hats.
And I see a lot of farmers who are really taking advantage of the age of social media
and especially on Instagram there's a lot of farmers who are kind of able to tap into
their communication skills in that way and that's something I'm trying to do and I think
it's an opportunity to really share my story and connect with the consumer audience directly.
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So that's been something that I've been really excited about.
I think also just bringing people out to the farm is a huge opportunity for me this year.
As a dairy farm we weren't really like a public venue and my dad is also a more private person.
I think that's one area where we have different kind of values and approaches to farming and
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I'm really excited to kind of start to dip my toe in the water of having some on-farm
events and bringing people out to see the farm and see our practices and what we're
doing on the land and to make that connection to the land available to others.
While also still respecting the fact that my dad also lives here and is also part of
the farm business and we are a working farm so I'm not trying to be completely agritourism
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but I want to start to open the doors and bring more people in to see our farm and get
to connect with us and so that's something that the farm store is going to help us bring
and that's also something that virtually social media and our email newsletters and all these
communications vehicles have really kind of helped with as well.
Just really making that authentic connection to our customers, to our fellow farmers and
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greater community.
Just really kind of being able to show our face and like what we're all about and I think
that's been a huge opportunity.
Well as a professional communicator and a professional farmer, I mean do you have one
tip for someone who may be interested in marketing in a different way or you know using social
media in a more expressive way to tell their story?
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Is there something that's really worked for you or something that's really caught on that
you've tried to replicate?
I would say to really just be authentic and to not get caught up in perfection.
There are creators who have like just you know really perfect, pristine shooting and
they're just really great at filming themselves and it can feel like I'm never going to be
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that good.
My videos aren't going to be you know that beautiful and that crisp and you know that
articulate, but still do it and your authentic self and sharing your story and sharing behind
the scenes what you're doing on a day-to-day basis.
That may not seem that interesting to you, but it's really interesting to your customers
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and to people who don't have the experience of growing up on a farm.
And so all these little like mundane things that you think, oh it's not that big of a
deal, it is a big deal to other people and it just shows you who you are and what you
are doing every day to feed people, to grow food, to sewer the land and that is so important
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to share with other people.
Absolutely.
You said it very, very well.
And I think the more people that understand it and see it and realize how we raise food
in this country, that only can benefit not just your farm, but all farms.
So I think it's really important in what you're doing.
And you know, just to kind of wrap things up as you look at the experience that you've
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been through over the past several years and you know what's on the horizon, why is it
so important for you and I'm sure it's really hit you in many times in many different ways
to know that you're continuing that legacy for your family.
And you know, as you look through this process and know it's happening, you know, what can
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you put that into words?
Yeah I think there's a moment that really, really made everything worth it for me this
summer was being able to watch my dad go out onto the lake in a fishing boat that he bought
and be able to just take a day and catch fish and relax.
And I was just so honored to be able to watch that transition happen because growing up
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we didn't go on vacation, we went maybe three places in my childhood.
We went to, and my family didn't even go with me on this one, I went to Disney World in
fifth grade with a family friend.
We went to, I would have visited my mom's side of the family, which was going back to
another farm just across the country.
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And then we went to New Hampshire to go to the beach.
And we didn't, we just didn't take time away from the farm and really, you know, take time
to relax.
It just made such an impact on me to be able to watch my dad through this process, to be
able to start to have some time to relax.
And so this summer he bought a little aluminum fishing boat, he got a fishing license and
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went out on the water and invited me to go with him.
So we went out and we caught fish and just had such a nice time.
And that made it all worth it for me because I've just seen him work so hard.
All of my years growing up and it was a good reminder to me and something that I value
as a farmer to make time to do things off the farm and things for myself and that replenish
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me and keep me going.
So I think I'm excited to farm in a new way where we still are working really hard.
We still have days where we go from early morning to late night, but really keeping
that balance in mind and really trying to intentionally take some time for ourselves
to be able to enjoy what we're doing, to really build in more of that holistic kind of approach
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to farming where we work hard, but we also take time to enjoy ourselves and appreciate
what we have here.
And I think that's going to be what keeps us sustainable long term is being able to
do that and to really appreciate and enjoy what we have here.
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When we were talking the other day, you said something that was really great that it was
nice to see your dad realize he could still be a farmer even though he wasn't a dairy
farmer and to make that realization that there was still maybe another way of doing things,
but he's still innately a farmer.
But also now he's able to enjoy a few other things in life as well and find that balance.
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And I think that's a really, really touching story.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I'm so happy to see him be able to stay in farming and stay as an active part of our
farm team.
I don't know what I would do without him running a lot of our tractor work and without his
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insight into the animal health.
And he's still very much an active part of our farm.
And I'm really glad that we can have that situation where we're farming together and
having this overlap and being able to see that the farm continues without being a dairy.
That we're still farmers and that we're still be able to work together and enter this new
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chapter.
And it was really great to sit down at the attorney's office and to sign this paperwork
and to hear him say, this feels like a huge weight off my shoulders.
He was really, really happy when we finally were able to do that and said it was one of
the best days of his life.
And just being able to get from that point where we were sitting around the table and
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not sure where things were going to go, it was never contentious, but there was times
where we just weren't sure what the next step would be.
It took a long time for him to feel like he was ready to make a change from being a dairy
farmer and to be able to imagine being able to do anything else.
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I think there's a lot of fear wrapped up in that of, I'm going to have to get a job in
town.
And so that was always an underlying goal of mine to just make sure that he didn't feel
like he had to do that.
That he had a place on the farm and that we could work together.
And that I think is really important to have a shared goal or vision.
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So things are going to change all along the journey of a farm transition.
I learned early on, we're not going to be a creamery.
We're not going to make cheese.
I learned I don't have time to go to farmer's markets as much as I love them.
So I've got to do my marketing in a way that brings people to the farm or I also do some
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deliveries.
I had to make my marketing work for me.
But we also had the shared goal of my dad wanting to be able to continue farming to
the ability that he could and us both wanting to stay on the land and be farming together.
And so that really drove us to find a plan that would enable us to do that.
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And I'm really proud that we've kind of made that happen.
And we both have made some compromises along the way.
And I think that it has really, you know, that's really strengthened our relationship
and has really helped us work together as coming together around the table and just
moving things forward inch by inch.
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And I like to say that this type of transition process, it moves at the speed of trust.
And it's going to take the time that it takes.
And you just have to keep showing up, even if in the early part of the process, it feels
like you're just saying the same thing and you're just, but you're continuing to talk.
And that's the important thing.
You might not be moving leaps and bounds ahead every time you sit at the table or that you
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have those conversations.
I had a lot of conversations side by side in the milking parlor.
And so I think that's also a lesson to just meet people where they are.
And so we had a lot of conversations just in the pit of the parlor, thinking about,
you know, well, what if we tried this?
And you know, just kind of moving things along in the formal meetings, but also outside of
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them and just having those, having that open line of communication, I think is so critical.
Yeah.
And I love that line, moving in the speed of trust.
That's a good thing.
And not just farmland transition, that's a good lesson in life.
So well, Olivia, thank you so much for talking about this and being so open about the process.
(33:03):
And we wish you the best of luck on the beef side of things, as well as maple.
I mean, we're in the thick of maple season, so I hope that's going well for you too.
Thank you so much, Steve.
I really appreciate it.
And thank you for sharing my story and for the work that the Farm Bureau does to help
farmers advocate and to connect with each other and to access programs like the Land
(33:25):
is Your Legacy program, that's really important.
Well, thank you so much.
And we wish you and your father and your partner all the best.
We really do appreciate Olivia being so open about the farm transition.
And if you want to learn more about Olivia and her farm in Fort Anne, check out our website
at fullerancres.com.
(33:46):
And if you want to learn more about Land is Your Legacy, you can find that information
courtesy of Nationwide Insurance on their website.
And we've also spoken to Henry Monshine on a previous News Bites podcast about the program.
So take a listen.
Well, thanks for listening today.
If you have ideas for a future podcast, just send me a message at New York Farm Bureau.
I also want to thank Seth Moser Katz for putting today's episode together.
(34:08):
Until next time, make sure to thank a farmer for all that they do.
Farmland transition is so important to farm families and the next generation of farmers.
(00:08):
But when is the right time to start moving in that direction?
Today on News Bites, we explore that question with someone who just went through the process.
Hi, I'm Steve Ammerman, Director of Communications for New York Farm Bureau, and welcome to News
Bites.
Olivia Fuller is now the owner of Fuller Acres, a beef farm that continues to diversify in
(00:29):
Washington County, New York.
Her family has a long history on the farm, and now it's her turn to carry on that tradition
of working the land and feeding her community.
But the process to get there isn't a quick one.
Working with her dad, she and her partner navigated that journey and worked through
some emotional issues to get there.
Well, today, Olivia speaks about the past several years and the lessons she learned
(00:51):
that can help others looking to go through the process.
Hi, Olivia, it's so good to have you on News Bites today talking about a very personal
experience for you as your farm has transitioned from your father and your family to you and
all that that's meant to you and has brought to your family.
(01:12):
So I kind of just wanted to dig deep into that and start off with simply tell us a little
bit about your farm and your family.
Yeah.
Thanks, Steve, for having me.
I'm really excited to be here.
So our farm, Fulleracres Farm, is in Washington County, New York, a small town called Fort
Ann.
(01:32):
I'm the fourth generation farmer to be farming in our valley, what we call Welsh Hollow.
I come from a farming family on both sides of my family.
So on my dad's side, we have been primarily dairy farmers, milking 100 cows for the last
three generations.
And my mom's side of the family, they were actually corn and soybean and hog farmers
(01:55):
in Iowa.
So really a deep agricultural roots on both sides of my family.
And I probably couldn't escape it if I wanted to.
Well, that's probably a good thing.
And I know you also do some maple as well.
So it really is a diversified farm and it's continuing to diversify.
(02:15):
What brought you back to the farm?
What made you say, you know what, I want to be that next generation?
Yeah, I think a lot of different factors came into play bringing me back to the farm.
I think it was kind of always kind of in the cards for me, even if I didn't realize it
growing up.
It's just how I grew up and so deeply immersed in who I am.
(02:36):
And it took going away from the farm for a few years in college and early adulthood,
I think to really understand and appreciate that and to kind of see other types of farming.
I think growing up, I was just so immersed in dairy farming and didn't really think of
there being other ways to farm.
(02:57):
We've been in my immediate region and on my specific farm, my dad was always a dairy farmer.
That's what he wanted to do and who he wanted to be.
And then in the late winter and early spring, we made maple syrup.
But other than that, we were dairy farmers.
So it was hard for me to really picture myself doing anything else on the farm.
(03:19):
And my partner, Tom, he had been on our farm working since high school.
And so he was always immersed in the farm and playing a really important role.
But neither of us were thinking we're going to be dairy farmers.
We love the land.
We loved being on the farm, working together, helping my dad.
But dairy farming is really, really hard work.
(03:41):
And you have to be committed twice a day, milking 365 days a year.
You really have to love what you do.
And that was a big commitment that I wasn't ready to take.
And so when I left the farm and went to college, I studied communications.
I always enjoyed writing.
(04:03):
I thought maybe I'll be a magazine editor or something like that.
And I'll come back to the farm someday and we'll have more of like a hobby farm.
But that's not what happened.
So what happened was I went to college and studied communications.
And about a year after finishing my degree, I came across a job for American Farmland
(04:26):
Trust.
And they are a national agricultural nonprofit working to protect farmland, keep farmers
on the land, and promote sound farming practices.
And I was just blown away that I could find a job that was both marrying my passion for
farming with my skills and communication.
So I started working at that job.
(04:50):
And that just really opened so many pathways for me for just seeing different types of
agriculture, even just in our state, and seeing other farms all across the state and different
scales, different types of farming, different types of farmers, and especially working more
in our next generation kind of programming, just seeing the amount of young and beginning
(05:12):
farmers who were eager to get onto the land.
And it started to really dawn on me how much I had back at the farm.
And that I had this thing that so many people are dreaming of and working so hard to get
access to land.
And that combined with my partner studying beef and livestock at Cobolskill and seeing
(05:38):
different ways of farming in that setting just kind of all came together and got us
thinking maybe we can come back to the farm and we can both help my dad and take things
in a slightly different direction.
And that's what you did.
I mean, you saw an opportunity.
And like you said, you were privileged enough to have that opportunity.
And it really was just about timing too.
(06:01):
I think a lot of it.
So you went to your dad and I'm sure it wasn't just like a one-time conversation that you
had with him.
But your first step was trying to figure out what were you and your partner wanted to take
the farm, but also respect your father as well in that process.
Yeah, absolutely.
(06:22):
And it's really evolved over time.
So when we started to have these conversations, I think back on it and I was thinking and
I had ideas around like starting a farmstead creamery.
I was thinking we already have a dairy.
How great would it be to have like a farmstead creamery?
I love cheese.
But as I started to really like start to explore that path, I realized that takes a lot of
(06:46):
investment and infrastructure.
And we started to have conversations around the table about different ways to diversify
the farm and bring us into the farm business.
And I'd say that the conservation easement was really the catalyst for us having those
conversations.
So around 2016, my dad had found out about an opportunity to apply for the State Farm
(07:09):
and Protection Program through our local land trust, Agricultural Stewardship Association.
He attended a workshop and was really excited about that.
And also aligned to the work I was doing, which is just the cool timing of I was learning
about farmland conservation and he was also just interested in doing it for our farm.
So we kind of walked down that path together and it got us talking about what else could
(07:34):
the farm be?
If we do this thing that keeps our farm in farming forever, that really sparks the longer
term conversation.
And so we started talking about ways we could potentially partner.
You're thinking about like maybe doing some dairy.
But then the idea that really stuck was starting to transition to beef.
(07:54):
So the great thing about that was we already had the cows and we had a mixed herd of mostly
Holstein's, also some Jersey's and Frown Swift's.
But we weren't really needing to grow our dairy herd at that point.
My dad had a pretty solid herd.
We were trying to stay small anyways.
So it just made sense to start breeding those dairy animals to beef breed.
(08:18):
And so we started to have Angus and Herford Crosses born on the farm.
And that was a way with very little input to be able to start to grow a new business
enterprise.
And we always had a couple of beef on the side for ourselves, but this was our first
foray into actually selling meat from the farm.
(08:38):
And so that was an opportunity for me to really use the skills that I had and the background
I had in marketing and communications and also just being willing to go out and talk
to people and ask questions to learn about what does it take to actually sell meat from
the farm and to have it USDA processed and how do you stop those marketing channels and
(08:59):
all of that.
So I kind of took that on and that was my way of really putting some skin in the game.
Like you're giving time and energy to start to grow this business.
And at that point, I wasn't really getting anything out of it besides the fact that I
was on the farm and helping my dad and enjoying it in that way.
(09:20):
But I think that's something for the next generation to keep in mind is you might have
to do some things that are giving of yourself and of your time to help the senior generation
while you're figuring out what you want to do.
So there might be some give and take there where you're not immediately going to profit
off of what you're doing, but being able to contribute to the farm and kind of show what
(09:45):
else is possible can be a really good way to go.
And that really was, you know, maybe not an easy process, but a long process to start
making that actual transition of what you produce, what you market, how the income streams
are changing.
But then comes the next step of that transition where you become the owner and you took over
(10:09):
the land and those responsibilities as well.
While also, you know, your dad has remained a part of that.
And again, I know that that's never an easy process.
You know, you did have assistance from the Land is Your Legacy program, a program that
New York Farm Bureau works with with Nationwide Insurance.
Your dad got a, I guess, a postcard in the mail that really helped you in the end.
(10:34):
Can you talk a little bit about what that process was like?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
This has been a very long process in the making.
And I think a lot of people understand that with transition planning.
And I think that's why a lot of people avoid it, is because it really is a long game.
So I'd say our conversations really started around the time that we decided to pursue
(10:56):
the conservation easement in 2016 and 2017 when we were awarded.
And it was just a slow conversation since then.
And in the beginning, we weren't really talking about the actual land transfer.
That was a big topic.
So we took baby steps.
We talked about diversifying the business and getting us to the point where we could
(11:19):
be on the farm and living there.
We could both be making a living from the land.
And I'm working off farm as well.
So it wasn't that I was completely, you know, I wasn't making a living off the land, but
I was able to be here and help support the farm business.
The Land is Your Legacy program and the New York Farm Bureau workshop really came at a
really critical time for us to be making those bigger decisions.
(11:44):
So we had gotten pretty established in growing the beef herd.
I was feeling pretty established in, yes, this is where I want to be and what I want
to do.
We were starting to also add some different livestock enterprises with pastured pork and
some lamb as well.
It got to be the point where the dairy was starting to hinder our ability to move our
(12:07):
business forward.
And it was also hindering my dad because it was losing money every year.
And there's only so many years that you can do that just out of the passion of loving
what you do.
And it's the point where you've got to be able to make a decision and change things.
So when my dad got the postcard in the mail from the New York Farm Bureau for this workshop
(12:31):
and told me, hey, there's this transition planning workshop at Washington County Fairgrounds.
You want to go?
I was absolutely on board.
And so it was really helpful to have something that we could go to in person.
We've been going through this process over the years of the pandemic too.
So we started this in 2017 and have continued on through 2020 and all of those challenges.
(13:00):
So a lot of service providers couldn't meet us in person.
And we still did receive a lot of support virtually.
And I've had a colleague at American Farmland Trust, Kim Bella, who has been a through line
for me through this process and has really helped me figure out who to talk to along
the way and bounce ideas off of.
(13:20):
The Land is Your Legacy program and that transition workshop came into the picture, I think it
was November 2022.
And we were still milking cows at that time.
I was spending a lot of time helping with the dairy farm as was my partner.
And so we were giving a lot of our energy into just keeping the dairy going.
My dad had had a hip replacement surgery and he was just physically having a hard time
(13:45):
keeping up with the demands of being a full-time dairy farmer.
So when this workshop came about and we were able to go into the room and see, I think
especially for him to see other farmers who were in a similar position, that it's not
just him that having these challenges and needing to make this next decision for his
(14:06):
business and his livelihood, I think that really helped.
And that also gave us the introduction to Henry Manstein through the Land is Your Legacy
program.
And from that point on, we were also connected through Scott Keyes at New York Farm Bureau,
kind of helped us get connected and get tapped into that program.
(14:26):
And then we really embarked on making some decisions to really transition the farm in
the sense of the land.
And so that's a really complicated process.
And so it took meeting with attorneys and other advisors, business advisors.
(14:50):
And what would you say was perhaps the biggest challenge?
Was it that the logistics, the legalities, was it the emotional side of things in particular
for your father?
What was perhaps the hardest pitfall that you had to get across?
(15:10):
That's a great question.
I would say the biggest challenge was the emotional piece.
I mean, the logistics are also challenging and just needing to be patient and persevere
through the hoops that you need to jump through and all of the ducks that you need to get
in a row.
But really having the grace with your family to go down this process and to confront things
(15:36):
like mortality.
And that this is a really big decision.
And being the next generation, you might be really excited about all the new things you're
going to do and taking the farm in a new direction.
We have to remember that the senior generation is winding down from a lifetime of hard work
(15:56):
and all the dedication they've given to the land and what they've built.
And so it's really important for me that I'm also, as we take things in a new direction,
that we're also honoring all of what my dad has put into the farm business.
The one thing I'm really proud of is that right now we are renovating what was our milking
parlor into our self-serve farm store.
(16:17):
And so we are really taking a building that he has spent so many years, decades, seven
decades of his, well, not that long because he actually built the milking parlor in the
late seventies into the early eighties.
And so he had been on the farm milking cows in a tie stall barn long before that.
(16:39):
But the milking parlor was really his kind of vision for the future when he was my age.
So when he was taking things over, he designed his milking parlor and his free stall barn.
And that was his kind of his addition to the farm and the mark that he left.
And to be able to come in as a next generation and now take that building and give it new
(17:02):
life as our self-serve farm store is really exciting.
We're even using boards that he milled for the original barn.
And we're using those as our boards on our wall of the farm store.
So being able to really keep that legacy alive and give it new life.
So it's not just a building that is sitting empty and vacant and that we're actually using
(17:23):
that building on that and just really carrying that legacy forward.
And that's really been important for me.
Really honoring the past in that way.
And your dad is still involved in the farm too.
It's not like he just stepped away.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
So we're really lucky and grateful that he is able to and wanting to be involved in the
(17:43):
farm business.
And I think that's another thing to really keep in mind as well is how can you continue
to work together if that's what both sides of the family desire.
And so I know I'm talking a lot about intergenerational farm transition within families.
And because that's my experience and that's my lens.
(18:04):
But it's also really challenging for and maybe even more challenging for a new generation
who doesn't have a farm family they're coming into.
Even for those senior farmers who don't have a new generation in their family that is either
able or willing or wanting to come into the farm business.
So that I think is even more challenging when you're not even in the same room together
(18:29):
and growing up together and having that family connection is how do you bridge that divide
with somebody entirely new to your business.
And so that's a huge challenge.
But it is something that I think is definitely possible to work around and to make those
connections especially for young farmers who get out there in the community and get to
(18:53):
know the farms in their area, attend farm bureau meetings, get to know the farmers who
are in their communities and be willing to I think some of the same principles apply
of being willing to step in and help and get involved with the senior generation and have
a little bit of like a mentorship between one generation to the next.
(19:16):
And you might find an opportunity presents itself to kind of be able to access land in
that way.
And we have through American Farmland Trust we have a farmland finder website through
our farmland new generation New York program where there's hundreds of farm properties
listed in New York state that are looking for farmers to lease or purchase land.
And well, I mean, it's interesting to what you're saying, though, but no transition is
(19:40):
like any other.
They all have their challenges and opportunities.
And I would assume in some instances for some farm families that might be easier to transition
if you're not a part of the family.
We've heard stories that were it's incredibly difficult within the family.
But it's important, I think, if nothing else, that like you're doing here, you're talking
about it.
(20:01):
You're raising awareness about that there are options available and there's help available,
which is really important.
And I think people can learn just from your story and how you've moved through things.
And hopefully they can try and find something in your story that will help them in theirs
as well as they move through.
And as you look now, you're the main farm owner on the farm.
(20:26):
What you see as maybe a challenge that you hadn't thought about prior and what do you
see as your opportunity as you're looking to grow in a new direction?
Thank you.
I say farming is ripe with challenges, but I think having the right attitude to face
them is everything.
But I say challenge that I face as the next generation.
(20:49):
And I think a lot of farmers are increasingly in this position where they are not only farming,
they're also working additional jobs.
And I was really lucky in the fact that I was working for an organization that was supportive
of agriculture.
And just kind of a perfect storm of when I came back to the farm more full-time, I was
(21:10):
20, 20, and we were able to transition to working remotely.
And I don't think I would have been able to grow the business in the way that I have if
I didn't have that flexibility to be on the farm and doing things during the workday and
have that kind of flexibility to have a full-time job and be farming.
(21:30):
And I think that just the balance of that time is the real challenge because I want
to give 100% to everything I do and I want to give 100% to the farm.
I want to give 100% to my job.
And so just finding the striking the balance between what I can do in a given day and where
the seasons are really the most important, what seasons are really important for me to
(21:52):
focus on my off-farm work and what seasons are really important for me to really dig
into farming.
That's been a learning curve for me and one that I think I've started to hit my stride
in but it's always a challenge.
And I think that's going to be the case for more farmers in the next generation who are
(22:12):
balancing off-farm jobs and wearing many hats.
And I see a lot of farmers who are really taking advantage of the age of social media
and especially on Instagram there's a lot of farmers who are kind of able to tap into
their communication skills in that way and that's something I'm trying to do and I think
it's an opportunity to really share my story and connect with the consumer audience directly.
(22:39):
So that's been something that I've been really excited about.
I think also just bringing people out to the farm is a huge opportunity for me this year.
As a dairy farm we weren't really like a public venue and my dad is also a more private person.
I think that's one area where we have different kind of values and approaches to farming and
(23:03):
I'm really excited to kind of start to dip my toe in the water of having some on-farm
events and bringing people out to see the farm and see our practices and what we're
doing on the land and to make that connection to the land available to others.
While also still respecting the fact that my dad also lives here and is also part of
the farm business and we are a working farm so I'm not trying to be completely agritourism
(23:28):
but I want to start to open the doors and bring more people in to see our farm and get
to connect with us and so that's something that the farm store is going to help us bring
and that's also something that virtually social media and our email newsletters and all these
communications vehicles have really kind of helped with as well.
Just really making that authentic connection to our customers, to our fellow farmers and
(23:52):
greater community.
Just really kind of being able to show our face and like what we're all about and I think
that's been a huge opportunity.
Well as a professional communicator and a professional farmer, I mean do you have one
tip for someone who may be interested in marketing in a different way or you know using social
media in a more expressive way to tell their story?
(24:17):
Is there something that's really worked for you or something that's really caught on that
you've tried to replicate?
I would say to really just be authentic and to not get caught up in perfection.
There are creators who have like just you know really perfect, pristine shooting and
they're just really great at filming themselves and it can feel like I'm never going to be
(24:39):
that good.
My videos aren't going to be you know that beautiful and that crisp and you know that
articulate, but still do it and your authentic self and sharing your story and sharing behind
the scenes what you're doing on a day-to-day basis.
That may not seem that interesting to you, but it's really interesting to your customers
(25:01):
and to people who don't have the experience of growing up on a farm.
And so all these little like mundane things that you think, oh it's not that big of a
deal, it is a big deal to other people and it just shows you who you are and what you
are doing every day to feed people, to grow food, to sewer the land and that is so important
(25:22):
to share with other people.
Absolutely.
You said it very, very well.
And I think the more people that understand it and see it and realize how we raise food
in this country, that only can benefit not just your farm, but all farms.
So I think it's really important in what you're doing.
And you know, just to kind of wrap things up as you look at the experience that you've
(25:44):
been through over the past several years and you know what's on the horizon, why is it
so important for you and I'm sure it's really hit you in many times in many different ways
to know that you're continuing that legacy for your family.
And you know, as you look through this process and know it's happening, you know, what can
(26:05):
you put that into words?
Yeah I think there's a moment that really, really made everything worth it for me this
summer was being able to watch my dad go out onto the lake in a fishing boat that he bought
and be able to just take a day and catch fish and relax.
And I was just so honored to be able to watch that transition happen because growing up
(26:32):
we didn't go on vacation, we went maybe three places in my childhood.
We went to, and my family didn't even go with me on this one, I went to Disney World in
fifth grade with a family friend.
We went to, I would have visited my mom's side of the family, which was going back to
another farm just across the country.
(26:52):
And then we went to New Hampshire to go to the beach.
And we didn't, we just didn't take time away from the farm and really, you know, take time
to relax.
It just made such an impact on me to be able to watch my dad through this process, to be
able to start to have some time to relax.
And so this summer he bought a little aluminum fishing boat, he got a fishing license and
(27:18):
went out on the water and invited me to go with him.
So we went out and we caught fish and just had such a nice time.
And that made it all worth it for me because I've just seen him work so hard.
All of my years growing up and it was a good reminder to me and something that I value
as a farmer to make time to do things off the farm and things for myself and that replenish
(27:44):
me and keep me going.
So I think I'm excited to farm in a new way where we still are working really hard.
We still have days where we go from early morning to late night, but really keeping
that balance in mind and really trying to intentionally take some time for ourselves
to be able to enjoy what we're doing, to really build in more of that holistic kind of approach
(28:12):
to farming where we work hard, but we also take time to enjoy ourselves and appreciate
what we have here.
And I think that's going to be what keeps us sustainable long term is being able to
do that and to really appreciate and enjoy what we have here.
(28:33):
When we were talking the other day, you said something that was really great that it was
nice to see your dad realize he could still be a farmer even though he wasn't a dairy
farmer and to make that realization that there was still maybe another way of doing things,
but he's still innately a farmer.
But also now he's able to enjoy a few other things in life as well and find that balance.
(28:56):
And I think that's a really, really touching story.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I'm so happy to see him be able to stay in farming and stay as an active part of our
farm team.
I don't know what I would do without him running a lot of our tractor work and without his
(29:19):
insight into the animal health.
And he's still very much an active part of our farm.
And I'm really glad that we can have that situation where we're farming together and
having this overlap and being able to see that the farm continues without being a dairy.
That we're still farmers and that we're still be able to work together and enter this new
(29:43):
chapter.
And it was really great to sit down at the attorney's office and to sign this paperwork
and to hear him say, this feels like a huge weight off my shoulders.
He was really, really happy when we finally were able to do that and said it was one of
the best days of his life.
And just being able to get from that point where we were sitting around the table and
(30:06):
not sure where things were going to go, it was never contentious, but there was times
where we just weren't sure what the next step would be.
It took a long time for him to feel like he was ready to make a change from being a dairy
farmer and to be able to imagine being able to do anything else.
(30:27):
I think there's a lot of fear wrapped up in that of, I'm going to have to get a job in
town.
And so that was always an underlying goal of mine to just make sure that he didn't feel
like he had to do that.
That he had a place on the farm and that we could work together.
And that I think is really important to have a shared goal or vision.
(30:49):
So things are going to change all along the journey of a farm transition.
I learned early on, we're not going to be a creamery.
We're not going to make cheese.
I learned I don't have time to go to farmer's markets as much as I love them.
So I've got to do my marketing in a way that brings people to the farm or I also do some
(31:10):
deliveries.
I had to make my marketing work for me.
But we also had the shared goal of my dad wanting to be able to continue farming to
the ability that he could and us both wanting to stay on the land and be farming together.
And so that really drove us to find a plan that would enable us to do that.
(31:33):
And I'm really proud that we've kind of made that happen.
And we both have made some compromises along the way.
And I think that it has really, you know, that's really strengthened our relationship
and has really helped us work together as coming together around the table and just
moving things forward inch by inch.
(31:55):
And I like to say that this type of transition process, it moves at the speed of trust.
And it's going to take the time that it takes.
And you just have to keep showing up, even if in the early part of the process, it feels
like you're just saying the same thing and you're just, but you're continuing to talk.
And that's the important thing.
You might not be moving leaps and bounds ahead every time you sit at the table or that you
(32:20):
have those conversations.
I had a lot of conversations side by side in the milking parlor.
And so I think that's also a lesson to just meet people where they are.
And so we had a lot of conversations just in the pit of the parlor, thinking about,
you know, well, what if we tried this?
And you know, just kind of moving things along in the formal meetings, but also outside of
(32:43):
them and just having those, having that open line of communication, I think is so critical.
Yeah.
And I love that line, moving in the speed of trust.
That's a good thing.
And not just farmland transition, that's a good lesson in life.
So well, Olivia, thank you so much for talking about this and being so open about the process.
(33:03):
And we wish you the best of luck on the beef side of things, as well as maple.
I mean, we're in the thick of maple season, so I hope that's going well for you too.
Thank you so much, Steve.
I really appreciate it.
And thank you for sharing my story and for the work that the Farm Bureau does to help
farmers advocate and to connect with each other and to access programs like the Land
(33:25):
is Your Legacy program, that's really important.
Well, thank you so much.
And we wish you and your father and your partner all the best.
We really do appreciate Olivia being so open about the farm transition.
And if you want to learn more about Olivia and her farm in Fort Anne, check out our website
at fullerancres.com.
(33:46):
And if you want to learn more about Land is Your Legacy, you can find that information
courtesy of Nationwide Insurance on their website.
And we've also spoken to Henry Monshine on a previous News Bites podcast about the program.
So take a listen.
Well, thanks for listening today.
If you have ideas for a future podcast, just send me a message at New York Farm Bureau.
I also want to thank Seth Moser Katz for putting today's episode together.
(34:08):
Until next time, make sure to thank a farmer for all that they do.
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