May 20, 2025 • 53 mins
The honeymoon from hell takes center stage in our final episode covering White Lotus Season 1. What initially appears to be a simple story of an entitled rich guy and his trophy wife reveals layers of complexity that challenge our first impressions.
When we first meet Shane at the airport with a mysterious body being loaded onto the plane, most viewers jump to the conclusion that he murdered his new bride. This assumption colors everything we see in their relationship. But a second viewing reveals a different story altogether. Shane, while undeniably privileged and sometimes shallow, has legitimate grievances about their accommodations. Hotel manager Armand deliberately antagonizes the situation rather than resolving it professionally, creating a feud that escalates to tragic proportions.
Meanwhile, Rachel struggles with her new identity as Mrs. Patton, claiming to fear losing her journalism career while showing little genuine passion for her work. Her manufactured identity crisis frustrates not just Shane but viewers as well. When Shane's overbearing mother Kitty makes a surprise appearance on their honeymoon, she brutally but accurately calls Rachel out: reconcile with the fact that you married for money and stop pretending otherwise.
What makes this storyline so compelling is how it defies our expectations. No one is simply good or bad—they're complex, flawed people navigating desire and insecurity within systems of wealth and privilege. The fatal confrontation between Shane and Armand serves as the perfect culmination of tensions that have been building throughout the season, reminding us that even paradise can become deadly when egos clash.
Have you experienced a perspective shift when rewatching a show? How did your interpretation of Shane and Rachel's relationship evolve? Subscribe now and join our discussion about how wealth distorts everything—even our ability to see ourselves clearly.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi guys, welcome back to next episode With Nick and
Jess.
And this is our final episodeOn season one of White Lotus,
and I feel like we Saved thebest for last, because we're
going to be talking about theHoneymooners, shane and Rachel.
Yes, alright, so I'm going toSay that.
(00:25):
Shane and Rachel.
For me, watching the season asecond time, I felt different
about their story than the firsttime I watched it.
The show starts with Shane inthe airport and he's explaining
and he's by himself and he'sexplaining that you know he went
(00:48):
on his honeymoon and he savedthe white lotus.
And they're like oh, somebody,I heard somebody died at the
resort.
And he's like, yes, their bodyis being loaded onto the plane.
At that moment I decided Shanekilled his wife yeah, same,
absolutely thought Shane killedhis wife.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I thought that Shane killed his wife.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah, same Absolutely thought Shane killed his wife.
I thought that Shane killed hiswife and I watched the entire
first season through that lensand waiting for him to kill his
wife.
And so after I watched theseason and figured out that he
did not kill his wife, when Iwatched the season a second time
I actually felt different aboutShane and kind of looked at his
(01:29):
situation and his story alittle bit different and I kind
of softened to him a lot in howI felt about him, compared to
when I was convinced that he hadkilled his wife on their
honeymoon.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
No, I made those same assumptions.
I have mixed feelings aboutShane.
I don't think he's annoying,but he's not the worst character
.
I was waiting for him to killher, Like, especially when she
kind of made it seem like shewas going to leave and was
unhappy.
I was like, oh, this is when itcomes.
He's about to kill her and hedidn't.
(02:03):
So then I'm like but did?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
we ever get who the body was who does yes?
I'll tell you.
We'll discuss it at the endwhen we get to that point of the
discussion.
So, yes, I'll tell you.
I can't believe you don't knowwho the body is, but I'll tell
you when we get there.
So when I initially watched theseason and I was convinced that
Shane kills his wife anytime,he did or said something that I
(02:32):
did not like.
I was looking for manipulation,control, anger.
I was looking for all of those.
I was looking for all of those.
I was looking for all of thosethings and it's if you're
looking for it.
It's very easy to find itbecause he's not a great person.
But if we're being real, noneof these guests are good people.
(02:55):
None of them so far, have beengood people.
But I was really painting Shanewith a very harsh brush because
I was convinced that he was oneof those guys, right?
So, okay, I'm laughing becausethis story is the story where
(03:19):
Armand, who is the hotel manager, is most prominent, and I will
say this Shane is rich, shane isentitled, but the way the
manager handled him wascompletely wrong and he only
(03:40):
antagonized the situation.
Yes, it was funny.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
It was hilarious.
I enjoyed the way Armandantagonized him.
I'm not even going to lie,because Shane is an entitled
jerk.
He really is.
He's entitled.
He's never had to do anythingfor himself.
He relies on his mommy foreverything.
It's so clear.
I feel like that's part of thereason why Armand handles him
the way he handles him.
(04:05):
But it is so funny to meBecause he was like my mom made
the reservation.
You want me to call my mom.
Would you feel better if youcall your mommy Like?
I enjoyed that so much so.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Once again, like these people arrived by boat.
These are like the VIP, the top, like like guests that the
hotel is entertaining.
This is a couple on theirhoneymoon and Shane's mom booked
the honeymoon for them and oneof the things that she did was
(04:38):
she sent him a virtual room tourto show him the room that was
booked room tour to show him theroom that was booked.
When they get to their room,shane very quickly realizes that
this is not the room that hetook the tour of yeah, it's a
nice room, but it's not the room, it's not the honeymoon suite,
it's not the room.
That was that you know he wassupposed to have, right?
(04:59):
So?
And rachel is like, oh, itdoesn't, it doesn't matter, it
doesn't matter.
And does he dismiss Rachelcompletely because she grew up
poor?
He does.
He's like you wouldn't know agood room because you've never
experienced anything, which iswrong.
Yeah, it is wrong, but he is onhis honeymoon and they booked
(05:27):
and paid for a honeymoon suiteyeah.
So when he goes to the desk totalk to Armand, Armand
completely gaslights him.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
He does.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Completely gaslights him, completely guessed and at
that point, at that point,armand, there was no reason for
Armand to treat him like that,because he's the manager,
because he's a VIP guest andbecause the hotel was in the
wrong.
So I, once again, I'm ahospitality person.
(06:01):
I've been a hospitality managerand I've had to have tough
conversations when we've made amistake.
I've had to fix situations LikeI know what should have
happened in that conversationand at that point there was no
reason for Armand to treat himlike that.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
That's true At that point?
Yeah, that's true.
He should have just admittedthe mistake and tried to rectify
it in some way.
Exactly and also charge themfor the right room, because they
did charge them for the roomthat they didn't get.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Exactly Like there were so many things that, like
Armand did in that moment, thatwas wrong and messed up.
And Shane's reactions, yes,they were a bit much like they
he cared too much but at thesame time Armand was
(06:56):
disrespecting him.
He was, he was disrespecting himand I'm like, the first time I
watched it I was firmly onArmand's side because I felt
like Shane was a killer.
But when I watched it again I'mlike okay, like he's a guest
who knows who he is, he's a VIPand he expects to be treated
(07:19):
like one and Armand was nottreating him like that and Shane
deserved to be upset.
He did.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
I will give you that yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Calling your mom is crazy, because I would have
called, I would have left and Iwould have called corporate
because paperwork is on my side.
He has the booking, he has theroom that he stayed Like I would
have enjoyed my like stay and Iwould have called corporate and
have them have me stay, comeback and stay again in the
(07:50):
proper room for free and I dothink that's where it gets to be
a bit much with Shane is that,like it's bothered him so much
that he can't even enjoy hishoneymoon.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
and his wife is repeatedly saying that like she
wants to enjoy the honeymoon,she doesn't care about the room.
There's no way to get him intothat room because there's other
guests in that room, so you'renot going to get the room.
And he never lets it go.
But Armand is antagonizing him.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
He is.
So the kind of things thatArmand does gaslighting him,
making it seem like that thereis not a honeymoon suite, making
him seem like that is the, thatthe room that he's in is the
room that he's booked, making itseem like there was not a price
difference, you know.
Then Shane comes and he tellsArmand he wants to do something
(08:42):
special for his wife, somethingromantic.
He's like oh, you know, whatCan we do?
Like a dinner, like a privatedinner somewhere on a cliff or
on a beach.
He was not talking about theroom situation.
He didn't even at that point,he didn't even ask for a
discount or anything.
(09:02):
He's just like can you help meset this up?
Yeah, or anything.
He's just like can you help meset this up?
Yeah, armand, being petty, isdecides.
He says.
He says, oh, why don't you takea cruise, like a dinner cruise,
with your wife, and we'll have?
Like, all you have to do is payfor the dinner.
Another, like guest, has bookedthe boat, so you don't have to
worry about paying for the boat.
(09:23):
As if he's doing him a favor.
Armand fully knows at thatpoint that Tanya has booked this
boat to throw her mom's ashesout.
Tanya has already told him I'mgoing to be very emotional and
this is going to be very hardfor me.
And Armand still puts thathoneymooning couple.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
He puts that honeymooning couple on the boat
with Tanya who is grieving theloss which is Tanya's opening,
who's grieving the loss of hermother, and in deep mourning
knowing that it was going togrow terrible, was excited, was
(10:05):
excited when Dylan reported backthat it was going terrible.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
He did that on purpose and this is like that
and things like that are why Ifeel like Shane deserves some
grace.
Now, one thing we did notmention the beginning of the
show, armand is the manager andhe's and he's sober.
He and then like very quicklywhich to me I don't feel like
(10:35):
enough bad things have happenedto warrant it he breaks his
sobriety and he starts doingdrugs and he starts drinking and
once that happens, armand isoff the chain, off the rails.
He does not care about anythinganymore, which is why he keeps
(11:01):
like this ongoing battle withShane.
I don't think he had broken hissobriety yet when Shane first
came to complain.
No, he didn't, but he was stillrude and mean to him.
So it's not even like that.
Him breaking his sobriety wasthe reason why he kept it,
because he started that back andforth with Shane when he was
still sober.
But his behavior gets more andmore unhinged as he's like doing
(11:25):
all of these different drugs,he even like um, what do you
call it?
Um, the uh.
He proposes a like sex trystwith one of his employees, dylan
, and he bribes him,propositions him that's what I'm
saying.
He propositions him and offershim like better, like yeah, if
(11:48):
he will sleep with him, and I'mlike I really hope Dylan sues
the hotel because he slept withhim and then he didn't give him
anything.
Like he was.
It was like he was really likereally, really wild, but he and
Shane are like going at it backand forth and things keep
escalating between the two ofthem.
(12:08):
In the midst of that, his wife,rachel, is having some sort of
identity crisis and let me tellyou something I was so annoyed
by her.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So annoyed, so annoyed, so annoyed Because I
was was like, if you don'treconcile with the fact that you
married this man for money,like figure it out, you try to
act like you have more of aproblem than you do this is my
thing.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Okay, when you get married, there is an identity
thing that happens.
Yeah, like when I had to changemy name, I drug my feet for
months and months and months.
And even before we got marriedI talked about how I wasn't sure
(12:59):
if I would change my name.
And my husband was like reallyupset about that and he's like
don't you like what's wrong withmy name?
Why wouldn't you want my name?
And I was trying to explain tohim it has nothing to do with
him, it has everything to dowith me.
I've lived my life so long withthis name, I've accomplished
all of these things with thisname, and giving it up feels
like giving up me and losing apart of myself.
And so I like when she, when hemade that comment about Mr and
(13:24):
Mrs Patton and she was like oh,that's weird, I understood her
in that moment.
Every other thing she said Iwas calling bullshit on.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Me too.
Me too, because I'm like Shane.
I do believe Shane loves her.
He says some really messed upthings to her because he's rich
and he knows that she didn'tgrow up rich.
But, like, I do think that heloves her and he loves her.
(13:56):
He doesn't have the ability topretend he is who he's not, he
just is who he is.
But I'm like but you, being aperson who, with school, is
somewhat more intellectual thanhim, you know this man is not
enough for you.
You know what I mean.
You like like they don't fit,they don't have a connection,
they don't make sense together.
Like I get why he is kind of inlove and enamored with her.
(14:19):
She is not in love and enamoredwith him and she knows that.
So you married him for money Idon't care what you say because
there's no other.
What other quality that he hasthat drew you to him.
But then you're trying to havethis little fake identity crisis
like, oh my God, am I going tohave to give up my career and
all this kind of stuff?
And I'm like it just feels fake.
Reconcile with the fact thatyou made a decision to marry for
(14:40):
money and move on with yourlife.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
The thing about it is is I wholeheartedly believe
that those like comments that hemade about her being poor and
about her family being poor,that he did not start making
those comments on the honeymoonhe has.
I'm quite sure because, when Iagree with you, shane does not
hide who he is, he doesn't thinkthere's anything wrong with who
he is and he he doesn't havethe like emotional mental depth
(15:08):
to hide who he is because hedoesn't see anything wrong?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
no, he doesn't?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
the person that he is now is the person always been
yeah and you said, oh, youmarried you, you met him, you
had gone through a bad breakupand like he was taking you out
and showing you all these placesthat you could never afford to
go, and then he wanted to getmarried.
So you did it because you couldhave easily said, hey, like I'm
(15:31):
not ready, let's spend moretime together, let's get to know
each other, let you.
You felt like you, you had acatch.
You found a catch.
You and because and I'm nottrying to be disrespectful her
career was not careering, itwasn't, she was not like she is,
(15:53):
I don't even know like youshe's.
Like you're writing click babyarticles and you don't even like
have a strong passion.
Like you're a journalist, butyou don't have a point of view.
You know how some journaliststhey do crime or they do
politics or they do lifestylestuff.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
It's their passion, or investigative journalism.
You don't have a passion, youdon't have a direction.
You're writing puff pieces.
I think she doesn't want towrite puff pieces, but it's not
clear what she does want towrite.
You don't have any direction inyour career and you're taking
this out so that you don't haveto do anything, but you're
(16:35):
having this weird fake identitycrisis.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
to me, instead of just like, yeah, I agree,
because she.
There's a way that she wants tobe seen right, and then there's
a way that she actually wants tobe.
She wants to be a kept trophywife, but she doesn't want to be
seen as a kept trophy wife, andI can give you an example of
(16:57):
that.
Okay, she do you remember whenshe's at the pool and she's
talking to the girls and thegirls are being really mean with
her and icing her out and shegets up and she pulls off her
bathing suit and shows off herbody and then jumps in the pool
as a way to get back at them?
You understand where yourcurrency is and where your power
(17:21):
lies.
You could, you, like thosegirls were making you feel like
you weren't intellectual enoughto talk to them, and so to get
back at them, you showed themthat you were skinnier than them
, and so you understand whereyour power lies.
Stop pretending as if you likeyou want to be the next Barbara
(17:41):
Walters, because you don't.
You don't, you want to be andthat's fine that's fine.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Resign yourself into the life that you've created and
even so.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Then she's like oh well, you know what?
Actually I'm not a goodjournalist.
Maybe I could go work for anon-profit.
And the mom who pops up ontheir honeymoon which was crazy
is basically like why would youwork at a non-profit when you're
not going to get any money andthe whole purpose of a nonprofit
is to ask rich people for moneywhen you can be on the board
and just actually give the money?
She was not wrong about that.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
She was not wrong about that.
She was not wrong about that.
But could I say, anotherincredible casting, like I was
not expecting.
Oh, can you look up the actress?
Do you know the actress?
Molly Shannon.
Molly Shannon, I was notexpecting.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Can you?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
look up the actress Molly Shannon.
I was not expecting to seeMolly Shannon, but I was so
excited when I saw Molly Shannonbecause I was like, oh, that's
perfect.
That is perfect for theoverbearing mother who would
encroach on their honeymoon.
I was so excited.
She was Maybe, that's it.
She's kind of reading that girla little bit like you're trying
(18:50):
to act like you are somethingthat you're not.
And listen, we're okay with thefact that you're gonna be a
trophy wife and you're gonna berich and enjoy all this money,
but you're not gonna pretendlike you're an intellectual.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Molly read her for filth as Kitty she read her for
filth.
She said listen when I gotmarried, I had family money, so
I had a little more power.
You don't have that, she said.
Sometimes you have to find whatyou have, maybe personality.
(19:21):
It's not a career, it's notmoney, it's not networking, it's
not connections, is notnetworking, is not connections.
I suggest you find somethingthat you can do well, instead of
sitting here and pretendinglike like we're doing you wrong,
like you joined into thisfamily and you know you didn't
have the cachet that we had, soI suggest you find your place
(19:46):
and it's in that tiny littlebody, the ability to have kids.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
And then, yeah, and I do.
I do agree if she's dead wrongfor coming on this honeymoon and
she know it.
Um, but like, yeah, no, join aboard, become the social like
the, the charity face of thefamily, like you that you help.
You know kind of wash, all thetrifling stuff they do.
But yes, she was not wrong, canI be?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
honest with you.
If, like Rachel, really reallyloved journalism the way that
she said that she did, shewouldn't be having an identity
crisis because she would start ablog, a lifestyle brand, like
she would a blog, a lifestylebrand.
She would use her journalism toshow the world what this life
(20:35):
is that she is walking into.
It's a new experience.
She could be showing them herjourney.
She is getting to go undercoverin a new world.
You're a journalist.
You don't see that opportunitybecause she's not a new world.
You're a journalist.
You don't see that opportunitybecause she's not a journalist,
she's a whiner.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
No, she's a whiner.
And here's the other thing likeokay, you could even use the
connections that this family hasto get you out of writing puff
pieces.
There's so many things youcould do if you wanted to do it.
You want to be a trophy wife,so just get over yourself right
and like okay.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
So also she kind of kept like making it seem like
Shane only loves me for my bodyand all of this stuff, like I
honestly like.
Once again, during the secondwatch Shane actually was like
sweet to her in his way, in hisway.
He is in his, I have to say inhis way.
But I also have to say that sheknew who he was when she
(21:35):
married him yeah, so yeah, sheknew his flaws, she knew his
shortcomings and she stillmarried him.
But he was nice to her in hisway.
When she said oh, you know what, I don't, you know, I want more
romance, he immediately,immediately went.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
He tried.
Armand messed that up, but hereally did try.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
He did.
He's like listening to her.
He told her hey, you know what,you can have whatever kind of
career you want to have.
He was actually listening toher, he was being supportive of
her.
He was like you don't have towork, right?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
he was kind of like I don't know why you want to do
it, but I'm not going to stopyou from doing it exactly, and
that's what I'm like.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
I I'm going to be honest and say I did not see it
until the second watch, but,honestly, shane is not the
villain and she is not thevillain and she is not the
victim In that situation.
No, not at all, shane is justvery unselfish With what he
(22:40):
wants.
He's very up front.
He wanted her To be his wife.
He loves her, but he's alsovery sexually attracted and it's
also their honeymoon, right,that's literally.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
It's like yeah, it's their honey, it's your honeymoon
.
So, yeah, like, like, yeah,like that expectation that
you're going to like that, thatwasn't crazy to me either.
He, he is, he's very shallowand superficial.
So like, even, like, even himwanting her because of her body,
it's like there's not much elseto him.
You know what I mean, right,like he doesn't have
intellectual depth.
No, you know.
(23:13):
So, like, that's it.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Right, and so I'm like she's trying to make it
seem like all of the that he'sdoing all of these things and
he's creating all of theseproblems, and he's actually not.
He's really not creating all ofthese problems and he's
actually not.
He's honestly like the onlyissue with Shane is that he is
going to war with Armand and hewon't let it go.
(23:36):
But honestly, armand started itand Shane is.
He does, and Shane is not thekind of guy to back down.
But that's Shane being Shane.
I even on his side.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
I would say his other major flaw is that he's over
reliant on his mother becausehe's never had to do anything
for himself.
Yes, but again you knew thatlike right with that.
Only I want to say and I couldbe wrong about this one, but I'm
pretty sure she said the momplanned the whole wedding too
yeah, well, the mom said that,how much work she did planning
(24:12):
the wedding wedding she made allthe decisions.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Because if you hear her talk a rachel talk she's
like oh, you know what?
I was just out of a badrelationship and I met you and
you were taking me all of thesedifferent places all around town
and she was like and then weretaking me all of these different
places all around town and shewas like and then you know, the
last five months we've beendoing the wedding stuff, I'm
like, but the mom was reallydoing the majority of the
wedding stuff.
That's not why you weren'tworking, sweetie.
(24:39):
You did not want to work, andthat's okay.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
But don't try to blame him and not take
accountability for yourdecisions right, but you not
taking your career seriouslyBecause, like, yeah, like it is
okay to not want to work becauseyou've created a situation
where you don't have to work, sothat's fine, but nobody is
taking your career from you,like and I've seen rich men that
do stuff like that, like thatdo kind of limit the way.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
That is not what Shane is doing, he's not he's's,
not because the fact that shethought even to say it to him,
spent time considering writingan article on her honeymoon.
It was disgusting and it wascompletely disrespectful and
(25:25):
crazy because Shane wasn'ttaking work calls.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
No, he wasn't taking work calls.
No, he wasn't sending workemails.
I said he didn't have a job.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
No, he works for his family's real estate company.
It's a family business, butyeah, he works for his family
real estate business, so he doeshave a job, but he honestly he
wasn't taking phone calls, hewasn't taking email, everything.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Any correspondence was about that damn room.
If you act like you, notwriting this puff piece is going
to end your journalism careerwhen anybody would understand
that you are on your honeymoon.
Honestly, women get morepushback for taking leave for
having a baby than being ontheir honeymoon.
Nobody was going to never offeryou another article again
(26:08):
because you said no on yourhoneymoon.
You make going to never getoffer you another article again
because you, you said no on yourhoneymoon.
You, you, you make enough stuff.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
The thing about it is is because she has that
financial support, she can writeabout whatever she wants she
doesn't have to.
Honestly, she doesn't have totake jobs.
You can write something andthen try to sell it you can
freelance.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
You can write two or three articles a year and just
make sure that they are reallyexcellent, because you have that
financial backing.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
You can do academic stuff.
He was not holding her backwhen I tell you she manufactured
and created that identitycrisis for no reason, no reason.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
So when Belinda does shut her down from fixing her,
it was so satisfying At somepoint she goes to Belinda crying
and trying to help andBelinda's like I ain't got it
today.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
No, because Belinda's been through enough.
She's already been used up.
No, because millennium beenthrough enough.
She's already been used up.
Like her, she's already had aguest like steal all of her
emotional healing from her.
So, like, the feud betweenArmand and Shane keeps
escalating.
Like Shane is asking for hisboss's like number and Armand is
(27:28):
giving him the runaround.
And like Shane has, like histravel agent, call and like,
tell Armand off, like, and itgets to the point where
eventually, the the uh, armand'smanager does get involved and
Armand thinks that he's alreadyin like in this unhinged,
(27:48):
drug-fueled like rage, right,and at this point rachel is like
she's left the room.
(28:08):
I think she's got in herdefecate in shane's suitcase.
Now, one to one caveat, therobbery that we talked about in
the previous episode with themoss barkers has already
happened and shane is aware thatthere was a robbery and shane
and is now in the honeymoonsuite, which is the nicest suite
(28:29):
in the hotel.
So he's worried because he'slike, how did this person get
into the room?
You know, are we going to getrobbed?
You know next?
So Shane is already on edgebecause, like, he found out
about another guest being robbedand Armand sneaks into his room
to defecate in his suitcase andShane finds it.
(28:55):
Shane finds it.
He's understandably upset.
I can't even imagine, girl, Ican't even.
I can't even process how Iwould have acted.
It would have been worse thanShane.
I feel like Shane was livid, hewas process how I would have
acted.
It would have been worse thanShane.
Yeah, like I feel like ShaneWas livid, he was angry, but I
would honestly lose my mind andthe hotel is like oh, do you
(29:17):
think your wife Did it?
That's what would have took inme, that's what would have
pushed me over the edge.
So Shane does not realize thatArmand is still in the room.
And so, like Shane eventuallyrealizes that Armand is still in
the room and I don't think heknows that it's Armand- no I
(29:38):
can't when they're fighting.
He thinks that he's being robbedand that person who robbed him
wrapped in his suitcase and likethey end up fighting and Shane
stabs Armand.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Armand is the dead body oh, because they said it
was a woman at the beginningthey never said it was a woman.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
They never said it was a woman.
No, no, we assumed he killedhis wife because his wife wasn't
there and they just said a deadbody.
We assumed he killed his wifebecause his wife wasn't there
and they just said a dead body.
We assumed it was he killed hiswife.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
But yeah, it was Armand okay, okay, yeah, I don't
know how I missed that either,um, because I remember I saw the
fight.
I remember him stabbing him.
I guess did I just not assumethat Armand was dead?
Mm-hmm, okay, maybe that was itokay.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
So it's Armand, oh yeah, and that's really sad
because, honestly, even thoughhe's a terrible, hotel manager.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
So entertaining when I tell you I know all the stuff
that he's doing is wrong, but itis so entertaining, it is so,
so, like I'm smiling, like allthe scenes with him and Shane
are hilarious to me.
Shane is an entitled jerk andso he's never had to really deal
(30:54):
with anything in his life.
I think that's also why it's sofunny.
This is the most difficultsituation Shane has ever had in
his life.
He's dealing with a difficulthotel manager.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Right.
So if you look at how thingsescalate, tanya steals Belinda's
time and her energy.
The Mossbockers steal Kai'sfreedom Although it's really
Paula that does it, I lump herin with them they still Kai's
(31:31):
freedom.
And Shane steals Armand's life.
He stole Armand's life, isn'tthat wild, mm-hmm.
But I Shane is not a villainthough.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
He's not a villain.
It's hard with that one becauseyou still got somebody in your
room.
You know what I mean and that'sthe scariest thing ever.
You go to a hotel, like youknow.
I went to a hotel one time andsomeone it was in a joining room
, but of course I didn't knowthe person on the other side of
the joining room and they justkept jiggling the handle and
that scared the crap out of me.
So I can't even imagine cominginto your room and there's
(32:12):
someone else in there.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
It was self-defense it was self-defense.
The thing about it is that thesituation didn't have to get to
that point.
It didn't.
And if one of them would havebeen willing to step down.
But Armand is in, like thisdrug binge, and so he doesn't
have the capacity to step down,and Shane has never, like you
(32:34):
said, been inconvenienced before, so of course he doesn't have
the capacity to step down.
On top of that, hisrelationship with his wife is
falling apart and he can'tfigure out why.
He doesn't understand, and Ifeel that because he really
can't figure it out, because sheis just tripping.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Because it doesn't make sense.
She's just manufacturing anissue and I agree that that
whole name thing is a thing thatyou have to wrestle with as a
woman who gets married, changingyour name and how attached you
are to your identity.
That's the realest part abouther whole little identity crisis
.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
That's the only real part, because my question is why
do you have all of thesequestions now?
Why didn't you interrogatethese feelings before you got
married?
Before you got married?
Speaker 2 (33:24):
You had five months of wedding planning to
interrogate these feelings,where you were perfectly happy.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Why didn't you ask why didn't you ask yourself
these questions what will mylife look like after I'm married
?
Am I going to keep doingjournalism?
But, like there's no reason,like even the even if she had
all of those questions, none ofthose questions needed to be
answered on the honeymoon.
No, she shouldn't have evenbeen able to have access to find
(33:52):
out that they wanted to giveher that job, because she
shouldn't have been checking heremail or answering work calls.
You were on your honeymoon.
It was like almost as soon asshe got to the hotel, she
started tripping.
She started tripping.
She started tripping.
She started tripping from thetime they called her Mrs Patton.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, she did, she did, you know, and I'm like and
here's the thing, you could havechecked, shane, about him
basically calling you poor allthe time.
You know what I mean, because Ido think that there's a part of
him that cares and he's neverlived outside of his own world.
You know what I mean.
So I'm like, but I do think hecares enough about her to at
least try, you know right, so Idon't know how far she would
(34:35):
have got with it, but I think hecares enough, like his care in
his own way again, is genuine.
And I'm like you don't reallylike this guy, but you like what
he attaches to him, which,again, I'm not even judging you
for at this point in life.
I'm not even judging you for Ijust need you to get over
yourself.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
I was asking myself during the second rewatch, when
I because I, during the firstrewatch I was just holding on
waiting for Shane to kill her,but during the second rewatch I
was just holding on waiting forShane to kill her.
But during the second rewatch Iwas like, why does she like him
?
She doesn't seem to likeanything about him.
She doesn't like how attractedhe is to her.
(35:15):
She doesn't seem to enjoy hispersonality.
Exactly, they don't seem tohave things in common.
She does not like his family.
What does she like about him?
And you know, we've seen theseshows before, right, where we
don't understand why a couple istogether, right, but we then
(35:39):
learn why they're together, likethrough the show.
The show will show us differentthings, why they're together.
Like through the show, the showwill show us different things.
And, honestly, we never gotthat from this show because she
does not like him.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
She doesn't like him, and that's the thing and I'm
like.
So either reconcile withyourself that like I don't like
him but I want to marry himbecause I want to be attached to
this money, you know, findthings that you can like about
him.
There are he has likablecharacteristics, he does.
I think you could findsomething Heck, even if it's
just his body.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Right, he's not unattractive.
You know what I mean.
He seems to be fun-loving and,honestly, he seems open to her
having a life that she can behappy with.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
He does, I think he genuinely wants her to be happy
with he does.
I think he listens to her.
I think he genuinely wants herto be happy.
He doesn't know what's gonnamake her happy.
Of course she doesn't knowwhat's gonna make her happy, but
I think he's open to like youknow, but whatever she decides
is gonna make her happy, I thinkhe'd be, he'd be cool with it.
He seems like it right?
Speaker 1 (36:41):
I agree, he's not.
He's not as terrible of aperson as I thought and she
although I knew she was annoyingwhen I watched it the first
time like oh, she's getting onmy nerves.
When I watched it the secondtime, I said she is a problem
and honestly, she's part of thereason why armand gets killed,
(37:02):
because he's having so manyproblems with her and he's
fixating on the thing that hefeels like he can fix, which is
the room situation, thinkingmaybe if I can get her into this
room and it'd be nice, maybeshe'll calm down.
You know what I'm saying?
Like so she was part of thereason why he was so fixated on
this room, because he's tryingto get like them, to chill out
(37:23):
and have fun.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
And she'll say, oh, don't worry about the room,
let's just have a good time, butthen she's not a good time
she's not she's so dry and Iguess it may be like in some way
I see that connection with herand the girls, because it's like
you think you're deeper thanyou are, like you really are
(37:46):
shallow as well.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Absolutely, absolutely shallow, completely
shallow, because, like, all ofher problems are manufactured
and you're making it seem likehe's a stumbling block to what
you want to do and he's actuallynot.
You admit that like you are,like your life was not going
(38:08):
well, you were like in adesperate place and now he's
telling you hey, you know youcan do it.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
You cannot do it, but like it's our honeymoon, like
let's just, let's enjoy thehoneymoon and you make it seem
like he's trying to hold youhostage and turn you into a
separate wife, and that man isnot trying to do that and I
would say this is the one goodpoint he and his mom have about
the money is that the moneymakes it so you can really do
whatever you want to do.
Figure out what the heck youwant to do.
That's just facts.
(38:35):
That's not even them beingarrogant rich assholes, that's
just facts.
The money that you don't haveto worry about money means you
can really take your time andfigure out whatever the heck it
is you want to do.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Right.
But like let's not marry into arich family, but they want to
like, like, for them to pretend,like that's not what it is.
You knew that you were marryingway, way up when you did it and
Shane is not an egalitarianperson.
So he he's, he was never likeoh I'm wealthy but that doesn't
(39:07):
make a difference.
No, he leads with his wealth,like he does, like.
That is very important to hisidentity and you knew all of
those things when you met him.
He's not the villain.
No, not really.
She made me side with a man,okay, she made me side with a
(39:31):
rich man right, crazy, work,crazy.
And like.
My question is like how are wesupposed to feel about Armand?
Like knowing that he ends updying, but also I didn't want
him to die he was such a goodentertaining character, like as
(39:53):
long as he was.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
I think that you know , the funny thing is like the
stuff with Shade doesn't evenreally bother me because it's so
entertaining the stuff that hedid to Dylan that was like right
, and also him beinginappropriate with the guest.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Stuff that he did to Dylan.
That was like uh, literallyRight.
And also him beinginappropriate with the guests.
Who, yes, was inappropriatewith him first.
Oh no, I don't have no problemwith that he would not let it go
, though he kept going after him.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
I have no problem.
Like what he, what the, whatthe dad said to him was so
egregious.
I ain't got no problems with howhe treated him, even though,
like, he was supposed to be themanager of the hotel and he was
doing everything but managingthe hotel and that's the thing,
like I honestly, truly wouldhave felt better about him
having an inappropriaterelationship with the dad than
him having an inappropriaterelationship with dylan, because
(40:38):
dylan is in a vulnerableposition, like the dad you
proposition in this dad who justsays something crazy to you.
I don't have no feelings aboutthat.
Y'all both grown, y'all arecomparable ages.
There's I mean, I guess there'sa, you could say there's a
power imbalance, but it doesn'tfeel like it really.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Well, the power imbalance would not be in
Armand's favor, though, if thereis a power imbalance, but it
would be in the favor of Mark,because Mark's the guest.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Right, Right.
But I'm saying, but even so,even then it doesn't feel like
Mark is using, I guess, you knowjust, I guess just to be
invasive, but not like you haveto sleep, you know what.
I mean Right, but that's whathe did to Dylan basically, but
that's what he did to Dylan andthat's why that, to me, is the
worst thing that Armand did.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
So yeah, I don't understand, like, because, like
in the first episode, likeArmand is like talking to the
trainee and he's like tellingher all of these things, oh,
everything must be perfect, wemust serve them, and all of this
stuff and then he immediatelystarts doing the opposite.
Mm, hmm, and immediately.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
The fact that that was.
We never saw that that girlagain, and you pointed that out
to me, I'm like we never did seeher.
She left to go have the baby.
We never saw her again, or hertail, other than the.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
I don't understand why they put that in the show at
all.
There was no like.
That served no purposewhatsoever and I kept waiting
for it to tie back in, but itwas like the most random thing
in the world in the world.
(42:18):
I don't understand.
It's like I honestly feel likethey're like oh we, we need to
have more Hawaiian cast members.
Okay, let's just create a maidand give her like a oh, she
wasn't a maid, she was like aresort worker, essentially and
let's give her a couple ofspeaking lines in the first
episode.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
See, I'm like did they have something that tied
her in that they cut, Becausethat's what it felt like to me.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, but I'm
like there was no real purposefor her teeny tiny storyline in
there at all.
Yeah, because it didn't helpdevelop the characters at all.
You know what I'm saying.
It was very weird.
I don't know, it was very weird, it was very out of place.
(43:02):
But I will say, overall, I didenjoy the first season.
It was like for me to enjoy ashow and they also have so many
unlikable people.
It's a testament, it's a skill.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Well, I would say, okay, I'm mixed, Like I did not
enjoy.
I didn't fully enjoy watching.
There were moments that, well,I'm mixed, I didn't fully enjoy
watching it.
There were moments that Ienjoyed, but I felt like I was
waiting for something to happenthat never happened in the show.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
What would that thing have?
Speaker 2 (43:34):
been.
I don't know.
I thought there was somethingunderlying going on at the
resort.
There was some kind of secret.
I thought there was somethingthat was going to happen.
That never happened, but I didenjoy talking about it.
I enjoyed talking about thesecharacters.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Now realizing that Armand died, do you feel any
different?
Because that was the thing thatthey foreshadowed in the first
episode.
It was going to be.
The thing that was going tohappen Is that what it is that I
missed, that Armand died.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
I don't know why, probably because I like the
villains.
A lot of times I do enjoy thevillains.
They're just more interestingcharacters.
So maybe that's like I justwasn't.
I wasn't, my brain was notaccepting that Armand is gone.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Well, you were like who died?
I'm like what do you mean?
Who died?
Speaker 2 (44:24):
I saw that whole scene.
I watched it.
Actually, like you know, I waspaying attention.
I saw him get stabbed and itstill did not click that he died
and but it also in my mind.
Yeah, I was assuming so hardthat it was a woman and that it
was his wife and so I thoughtthey said a woman.
I thought he said a woman diedon our trip.
I completely missed that yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
So I'm going to tell you there's something that
happened in the show that Icompletely missed and I saw
somebody reference it on TikTokand then I went back and I'm
like, how did I not see that?
So if you go to the firstepisode and you go in about 20
(45:07):
minutes, I want you to do itwhen we're done and I want you
to, like, go in and in about 20minutes into the first episode
and just pay attention and tellme if you saw that.
No, I'm not going to tell you.
Tell me if you saw that scenethe first time you watched the
(45:31):
show, because I did not.
I was like was this, was thisscene in the show the first time
?
Because I don't remember it atall and so you know, sometimes
we miss things and so things arepointed out to us.
So don't feel bad, but yeah, Ienjoyed talking about the show
(45:51):
yeah, and you were talking aboutit and so we keep throughout
this season running into what isa story.
So maybe for you this story wasnot entertaining, but it was
intellectually stimulatingbecause it created good
(46:12):
conversation.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Yeah, because it just kept building to something.
It was building suspense and Ifeel like I never got that
payoff.
But I guess if Orman's deathwas the thing it was building to
, okay, I don't know, maybe on arewatch I'll feel differently
when you think about it.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
That's kind of shocking because he went.
Everything changed so rapidly.
The show starts he's thelong-term manager of a high-end
resort and within the span ofwhat?
Eight episodes?
He is on a drug-fueled bingefeud with the guest.
(46:53):
That ends in his death.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Yeah, that is Okay, okay, Okay, I'll give you that I
don't know.
And here's the thing I do getattached to characters Like so
much.
So, like you know, I told youI'm watching Game of Thrones
right now For the first time.
This is the first time for meBecause I'm, you know, I'm a
little bit scary, and blood,guts and stuff like that scare
me.
So, anyway, when it gets to thescene, the first Sam Turley, I
(47:19):
believe, is his last name, butSam from the Wall, the chubby
guy who is a ghillie I thinkit's Tarwell, something like
that but his first name is Sam.
When Sam gets to the scene wherehe's hiding Ghillie in that
little house, and then he comesout and the White Walkers there,
I stopped.
It's like 10 minutes from theending of that episode.
(47:40):
I stopped and I did not turn itback on for days because I was
like I am not prepared to loseSam.
Sam is great, though I love Sam.
So I'm like I don't know if mybrain, like I know Armand is a
terrible person, but I just findhim so entertaining, so I'm
like I just literally did notsee that he died.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
I just my brain is like no, he went to a farm to
live out his life running aroundwith other Armands it's so
stupid.
But no, like Game of Thrones isa show where you cannot get
attached to a character becausethey have no qualms killing them
.
The first time I watched theshow, which was when it first
(48:21):
came out many, many, many moonsago, when they killed Ned Stark,
I was like what.
It blew my mind.
I'm like wait a minute.
He was the main character ofthe show.
He's gone.
How are we going to have a show?
You just realized that.
Listen, he is one of manypeople that we will meet.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Yeah that when I saw that part I think it's towards
the end of season two, the redwedding, season two, episode
nine I'm like I'm still shockedwhen they kill the wife and the
son and I was like there are nomore Starks.
(49:06):
We ain't got nothing but babyStarks.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Right, they decimated an entire family.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
We're out of Starks now.
Did y'all mean to do this?
Did you know that we ran out ofStarks?
Speaker 1 (49:19):
we can't go get a MacArthur did you know that the
Starks were a short supply?
Yeah, and it's.
You're not used to that likemajor power players.
And then it's like hold on,they were essentially almost
like the king and queen of.
And then it's like hold on,like they were essentially like
almost like the King and queenof their area.
That's how respected they were.
(49:39):
And they like, dang, they justkilling them up.
That's wild, like who does that?
Well, george RR Martin does.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Right.
So like the same way I'm like,cause I'm like.
You know, I think I had a bigidea that everybody wasn't
coming back for the secondseason, but I would have thought
it would have been Armand,belinda and Tanya.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Now, what made you feel like she would come back
for the second season?
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Because she's already talking about going to another
resort.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Oh, okay, okay, okay, but yeah.
So let me know when you'reready to start watching season
two, and I'll do it again.
But I'm just gonna warn youlike you're gonna be like who
are these folks and why are wein?
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Italy, right.
Well, yeah, I think that'sgonna be the biggest shock it
feels weird, like why are we inItaly?
Speaker 1 (50:29):
like like so, yeah, so let me know, I really enjoy
talking with you about the whitelotus I.
I feel like I got like evenactually I feel like I got a
deeper appreciation for the showtalking to you about it and
(50:49):
giving like, giving my.
Uh, I feel like controversial.
I feel like to me, my takes onthe show are very controversial
because no one's going to belike let's leave our kid in
Hawaii, or Shane is not actuallythat bad of a guy.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
Armand is the problem .
As funny as he is, Armand isthe problem.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
And Tanya doesn't deserve a happy ending.
Tanya, she doesn't, she's asuccubus.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
She's a succubus a bit, but yeah, she's going to go
from one man to another usingher for her money.
But I think she's okay withthat because she likes to use
her money as power.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
So we'll see you guys next time.
I think next we have somethingreally fun, more lighthearted,
coming up.
I think you guys will reallyenjoy it.
Have a great day, bye.
Hi guys, welcome back to next episode With Nick and
Jess.
And this is our final episodeOn season one of White Lotus,
and I feel like we Saved thebest for last, because we're
going to be talking about theHoneymooners, shane and Rachel.
Yes, alright, so I'm going toSay that.
(00:25):
Shane and Rachel.
For me, watching the season asecond time, I felt different
about their story than the firsttime I watched it.
The show starts with Shane inthe airport and he's explaining
and he's by himself and he'sexplaining that you know he went
(00:48):
on his honeymoon and he savedthe white lotus.
And they're like oh, somebody,I heard somebody died at the
resort.
And he's like, yes, their bodyis being loaded onto the plane.
At that moment I decided Shanekilled his wife yeah, same,
absolutely thought Shane killedhis wife.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I thought that Shane killed his wife.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah, same Absolutely thought Shane killed his wife.
I thought that Shane killed hiswife and I watched the entire
first season through that lensand waiting for him to kill his
wife.
And so after I watched theseason and figured out that he
did not kill his wife, when Iwatched the season a second time
I actually felt different aboutShane and kind of looked at his
(01:29):
situation and his story alittle bit different and I kind
of softened to him a lot in howI felt about him, compared to
when I was convinced that he hadkilled his wife on their
honeymoon.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
No, I made those same assumptions.
I have mixed feelings aboutShane.
I don't think he's annoying,but he's not the worst character
.
I was waiting for him to killher, Like, especially when she
kind of made it seem like shewas going to leave and was
unhappy.
I was like, oh, this is when itcomes.
He's about to kill her and hedidn't.
(02:03):
So then I'm like but did?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
we ever get who the body was who does yes?
I'll tell you.
We'll discuss it at the endwhen we get to that point of the
discussion.
So, yes, I'll tell you.
I can't believe you don't knowwho the body is, but I'll tell
you when we get there.
So when I initially watched theseason and I was convinced that
Shane kills his wife anytime,he did or said something that I
(02:32):
did not like.
I was looking for manipulation,control, anger.
I was looking for all of those.
I was looking for all of those.
I was looking for all of thosethings and it's if you're
looking for it.
It's very easy to find itbecause he's not a great person.
But if we're being real, noneof these guests are good people.
(02:55):
None of them so far, have beengood people.
But I was really painting Shanewith a very harsh brush because
I was convinced that he was oneof those guys, right?
So, okay, I'm laughing becausethis story is the story where
(03:19):
Armand, who is the hotel manager, is most prominent, and I will
say this Shane is rich, shane isentitled, but the way the
manager handled him wascompletely wrong and he only
(03:40):
antagonized the situation.
Yes, it was funny.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
It was hilarious.
I enjoyed the way Armandantagonized him.
I'm not even going to lie,because Shane is an entitled
jerk.
He really is.
He's entitled.
He's never had to do anythingfor himself.
He relies on his mommy foreverything.
It's so clear.
I feel like that's part of thereason why Armand handles him
the way he handles him.
(04:05):
But it is so funny to meBecause he was like my mom made
the reservation.
You want me to call my mom.
Would you feel better if youcall your mommy Like?
I enjoyed that so much so.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Once again, like these people arrived by boat.
These are like the VIP, the top, like like guests that the
hotel is entertaining.
This is a couple on theirhoneymoon and Shane's mom booked
the honeymoon for them and oneof the things that she did was
(04:38):
she sent him a virtual room tourto show him the room that was
booked room tour to show him theroom that was booked.
When they get to their room,shane very quickly realizes that
this is not the room that hetook the tour of yeah, it's a
nice room, but it's not the room, it's not the honeymoon suite,
it's not the room.
That was that you know he wassupposed to have, right?
(04:59):
So?
And rachel is like, oh, itdoesn't, it doesn't matter, it
doesn't matter.
And does he dismiss Rachelcompletely because she grew up
poor?
He does.
He's like you wouldn't know agood room because you've never
experienced anything, which iswrong.
Yeah, it is wrong, but he is onhis honeymoon and they booked
(05:27):
and paid for a honeymoon suiteyeah.
So when he goes to the desk totalk to Armand, Armand
completely gaslights him.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
He does.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Completely gaslights him, completely guessed and at
that point, at that point,armand, there was no reason for
Armand to treat him like that,because he's the manager,
because he's a VIP guest andbecause the hotel was in the
wrong.
So I, once again, I'm ahospitality person.
(06:01):
I've been a hospitality managerand I've had to have tough
conversations when we've made amistake.
I've had to fix situations LikeI know what should have
happened in that conversationand at that point there was no
reason for Armand to treat himlike that.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
That's true At that point?
Yeah, that's true.
He should have just admittedthe mistake and tried to rectify
it in some way.
Exactly and also charge themfor the right room, because they
did charge them for the roomthat they didn't get.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Exactly Like there were so many things that, like
Armand did in that moment, thatwas wrong and messed up.
And Shane's reactions, yes,they were a bit much like they
he cared too much but at thesame time Armand was
(06:56):
disrespecting him.
He was, he was disrespecting himand I'm like, the first time I
watched it I was firmly onArmand's side because I felt
like Shane was a killer.
But when I watched it again I'mlike okay, like he's a guest
who knows who he is, he's a VIPand he expects to be treated
(07:19):
like one and Armand was nottreating him like that and Shane
deserved to be upset.
He did.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
I will give you that yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Calling your mom is crazy, because I would have
called, I would have left and Iwould have called corporate
because paperwork is on my side.
He has the booking, he has theroom that he stayed Like I would
have enjoyed my like stay and Iwould have called corporate and
have them have me stay, comeback and stay again in the
(07:50):
proper room for free and I dothink that's where it gets to be
a bit much with Shane is that,like it's bothered him so much
that he can't even enjoy hishoneymoon.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
and his wife is repeatedly saying that like she
wants to enjoy the honeymoon,she doesn't care about the room.
There's no way to get him intothat room because there's other
guests in that room, so you'renot going to get the room.
And he never lets it go.
But Armand is antagonizing him.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
He is.
So the kind of things thatArmand does gaslighting him,
making it seem like that thereis not a honeymoon suite, making
him seem like that is the, thatthe room that he's in is the
room that he's booked, making itseem like there was not a price
difference, you know.
Then Shane comes and he tellsArmand he wants to do something
(08:42):
special for his wife, somethingromantic.
He's like oh, you know, whatCan we do?
Like a dinner, like a privatedinner somewhere on a cliff or
on a beach.
He was not talking about theroom situation.
He didn't even at that point,he didn't even ask for a
discount or anything.
(09:02):
He's just like can you help meset this up?
Yeah, or anything.
He's just like can you help meset this up?
Yeah, armand, being petty, isdecides.
He says.
He says, oh, why don't you takea cruise, like a dinner cruise,
with your wife, and we'll have?
Like, all you have to do is payfor the dinner.
Another, like guest, has bookedthe boat, so you don't have to
worry about paying for the boat.
(09:23):
As if he's doing him a favor.
Armand fully knows at thatpoint that Tanya has booked this
boat to throw her mom's ashesout.
Tanya has already told him I'mgoing to be very emotional and
this is going to be very hardfor me.
And Armand still puts thathoneymooning couple.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
He puts that honeymooning couple on the boat
with Tanya who is grieving theloss which is Tanya's opening,
who's grieving the loss of hermother, and in deep mourning
knowing that it was going togrow terrible, was excited, was
(10:05):
excited when Dylan reported backthat it was going terrible.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
He did that on purpose and this is like that
and things like that are why Ifeel like Shane deserves some
grace.
Now, one thing we did notmention the beginning of the
show, armand is the manager andhe's and he's sober.
He and then like very quicklywhich to me I don't feel like
(10:35):
enough bad things have happenedto warrant it he breaks his
sobriety and he starts doingdrugs and he starts drinking and
once that happens, armand isoff the chain, off the rails.
He does not care about anythinganymore, which is why he keeps
(11:01):
like this ongoing battle withShane.
I don't think he had broken hissobriety yet when Shane first
came to complain.
No, he didn't, but he was stillrude and mean to him.
So it's not even like that.
Him breaking his sobriety wasthe reason why he kept it,
because he started that back andforth with Shane when he was
still sober.
But his behavior gets more andmore unhinged as he's like doing
(11:25):
all of these different drugs,he even like um, what do you
call it?
Um, the uh.
He proposes a like sex trystwith one of his employees, dylan
, and he bribes him,propositions him that's what I'm
saying.
He propositions him and offershim like better, like yeah, if
(11:48):
he will sleep with him, and I'mlike I really hope Dylan sues
the hotel because he slept withhim and then he didn't give him
anything.
Like he was.
It was like he was really likereally, really wild, but he and
Shane are like going at it backand forth and things keep
escalating between the two ofthem.
(12:08):
In the midst of that, his wife,rachel, is having some sort of
identity crisis and let me tellyou something I was so annoyed
by her.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So annoyed, so annoyed, so annoyed Because I
was was like, if you don'treconcile with the fact that you
married this man for money,like figure it out, you try to
act like you have more of aproblem than you do this is my
thing.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Okay, when you get married, there is an identity
thing that happens.
Yeah, like when I had to changemy name, I drug my feet for
months and months and months.
And even before we got marriedI talked about how I wasn't sure
(12:59):
if I would change my name.
And my husband was like reallyupset about that and he's like
don't you like what's wrong withmy name?
Why wouldn't you want my name?
And I was trying to explain tohim it has nothing to do with
him, it has everything to dowith me.
I've lived my life so long withthis name, I've accomplished
all of these things with thisname, and giving it up feels
like giving up me and losing apart of myself.
And so I like when she, when hemade that comment about Mr and
(13:24):
Mrs Patton and she was like oh,that's weird, I understood her
in that moment.
Every other thing she said Iwas calling bullshit on.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Me too.
Me too, because I'm like Shane.
I do believe Shane loves her.
He says some really messed upthings to her because he's rich
and he knows that she didn'tgrow up rich.
But, like, I do think that heloves her and he loves her.
(13:56):
He doesn't have the ability topretend he is who he's not, he
just is who he is.
But I'm like but you, being aperson who, with school, is
somewhat more intellectual thanhim, you know this man is not
enough for you.
You know what I mean.
You like like they don't fit,they don't have a connection,
they don't make sense together.
Like I get why he is kind of inlove and enamored with her.
(14:19):
She is not in love and enamoredwith him and she knows that.
So you married him for money Idon't care what you say because
there's no other.
What other quality that he hasthat drew you to him.
But then you're trying to havethis little fake identity crisis
like, oh my God, am I going tohave to give up my career and
all this kind of stuff?
And I'm like it just feels fake.
Reconcile with the fact thatyou made a decision to marry for
(14:40):
money and move on with yourlife.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
The thing about it is is I wholeheartedly believe
that those like comments that hemade about her being poor and
about her family being poor,that he did not start making
those comments on the honeymoonhe has.
I'm quite sure because, when Iagree with you, shane does not
hide who he is, he doesn't thinkthere's anything wrong with who
he is and he he doesn't havethe like emotional mental depth
(15:08):
to hide who he is because hedoesn't see anything wrong?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
no, he doesn't?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
the person that he is now is the person always been
yeah and you said, oh, youmarried you, you met him, you
had gone through a bad breakupand like he was taking you out
and showing you all these placesthat you could never afford to
go, and then he wanted to getmarried.
So you did it because you couldhave easily said, hey, like I'm
(15:31):
not ready, let's spend moretime together, let's get to know
each other, let you.
You felt like you, you had acatch.
You found a catch.
You and because and I'm nottrying to be disrespectful her
career was not careering, itwasn't, she was not like she is,
(15:53):
I don't even know like youshe's.
Like you're writing click babyarticles and you don't even like
have a strong passion.
Like you're a journalist, butyou don't have a point of view.
You know how some journaliststhey do crime or they do
politics or they do lifestylestuff.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
It's their passion, or investigative journalism.
You don't have a passion, youdon't have a direction.
You're writing puff pieces.
I think she doesn't want towrite puff pieces, but it's not
clear what she does want towrite.
You don't have any direction inyour career and you're taking
this out so that you don't haveto do anything, but you're
(16:35):
having this weird fake identitycrisis.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
to me, instead of just like, yeah, I agree,
because she.
There's a way that she wants tobe seen right, and then there's
a way that she actually wants tobe.
She wants to be a kept trophywife, but she doesn't want to be
seen as a kept trophy wife, andI can give you an example of
(16:57):
that.
Okay, she do you remember whenshe's at the pool and she's
talking to the girls and thegirls are being really mean with
her and icing her out and shegets up and she pulls off her
bathing suit and shows off herbody and then jumps in the pool
as a way to get back at them?
You understand where yourcurrency is and where your power
(17:21):
lies.
You could, you, like thosegirls were making you feel like
you weren't intellectual enoughto talk to them, and so to get
back at them, you showed themthat you were skinnier than them
, and so you understand whereyour power lies.
Stop pretending as if you likeyou want to be the next Barbara
(17:41):
Walters, because you don't.
You don't, you want to be andthat's fine that's fine.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Resign yourself into the life that you've created and
even so.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Then she's like oh well, you know what?
Actually I'm not a goodjournalist.
Maybe I could go work for anon-profit.
And the mom who pops up ontheir honeymoon which was crazy
is basically like why would youwork at a non-profit when you're
not going to get any money andthe whole purpose of a nonprofit
is to ask rich people for moneywhen you can be on the board
and just actually give the money?
She was not wrong about that.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
She was not wrong about that.
She was not wrong about that.
But could I say, anotherincredible casting, like I was
not expecting.
Oh, can you look up the actress?
Do you know the actress?
Molly Shannon.
Molly Shannon, I was notexpecting.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Can you?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
look up the actress Molly Shannon.
I was not expecting to seeMolly Shannon, but I was so
excited when I saw Molly Shannonbecause I was like, oh, that's
perfect.
That is perfect for theoverbearing mother who would
encroach on their honeymoon.
I was so excited.
She was Maybe, that's it.
She's kind of reading that girla little bit like you're trying
(18:50):
to act like you are somethingthat you're not.
And listen, we're okay with thefact that you're gonna be a
trophy wife and you're gonna berich and enjoy all this money,
but you're not gonna pretendlike you're an intellectual.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Molly read her for filth as Kitty she read her for
filth.
She said listen when I gotmarried, I had family money, so
I had a little more power.
You don't have that, she said.
Sometimes you have to find whatyou have, maybe personality.
(19:21):
It's not a career, it's notmoney, it's not networking, it's
not connections, is notnetworking, is not connections.
I suggest you find somethingthat you can do well, instead of
sitting here and pretendinglike like we're doing you wrong,
like you joined into thisfamily and you know you didn't
have the cachet that we had, soI suggest you find your place
(19:46):
and it's in that tiny littlebody, the ability to have kids.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
And then, yeah, and I do.
I do agree if she's dead wrongfor coming on this honeymoon and
she know it.
Um, but like, yeah, no, join aboard, become the social like
the, the charity face of thefamily, like you that you help.
You know kind of wash, all thetrifling stuff they do.
But yes, she was not wrong, canI be?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
honest with you.
If, like Rachel, really reallyloved journalism the way that
she said that she did, shewouldn't be having an identity
crisis because she would start ablog, a lifestyle brand, like
she would a blog, a lifestylebrand.
She would use her journalism toshow the world what this life
(20:35):
is that she is walking into.
It's a new experience.
She could be showing them herjourney.
She is getting to go undercoverin a new world.
You're a journalist.
You don't see that opportunitybecause she's not a new world.
You're a journalist.
You don't see that opportunitybecause she's not a journalist,
she's a whiner.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
No, she's a whiner.
And here's the other thing likeokay, you could even use the
connections that this family hasto get you out of writing puff
pieces.
There's so many things youcould do if you wanted to do it.
You want to be a trophy wife,so just get over yourself right
and like okay.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
So also she kind of kept like making it seem like
Shane only loves me for my bodyand all of this stuff, like I
honestly like.
Once again, during the secondwatch Shane actually was like
sweet to her in his way, in hisway.
He is in his, I have to say inhis way.
But I also have to say that sheknew who he was when she
(21:35):
married him yeah, so yeah, sheknew his flaws, she knew his
shortcomings and she stillmarried him.
But he was nice to her in hisway.
When she said oh, you know what, I don't, you know, I want more
romance, he immediately,immediately went.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
He tried.
Armand messed that up, but hereally did try.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
He did.
He's like listening to her.
He told her hey, you know what,you can have whatever kind of
career you want to have.
He was actually listening toher, he was being supportive of
her.
He was like you don't have towork, right?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
he was kind of like I don't know why you want to do
it, but I'm not going to stopyou from doing it exactly, and
that's what I'm like.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
I I'm going to be honest and say I did not see it
until the second watch, but,honestly, shane is not the
villain and she is not thevillain and she is not the
victim In that situation.
No, not at all, shane is justvery unselfish With what he
(22:40):
wants.
He's very up front.
He wanted her To be his wife.
He loves her, but he's alsovery sexually attracted and it's
also their honeymoon, right,that's literally.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
It's like yeah, it's their honey, it's your honeymoon
.
So, yeah, like, like, yeah,like that expectation that
you're going to like that, thatwasn't crazy to me either.
He, he is, he's very shallowand superficial.
So like, even, like, even himwanting her because of her body,
it's like there's not much elseto him.
You know what I mean, right,like he doesn't have
intellectual depth.
No, you know.
(23:13):
So, like, that's it.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Right, and so I'm like she's trying to make it
seem like all of the that he'sdoing all of these things and
he's creating all of theseproblems, and he's actually not.
He's really not creating all ofthese problems and he's
actually not.
He's honestly like the onlyissue with Shane is that he is
going to war with Armand and hewon't let it go.
(23:36):
But honestly, armand started itand Shane is.
He does, and Shane is not thekind of guy to back down.
But that's Shane being Shane.
I even on his side.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
I would say his other major flaw is that he's over
reliant on his mother becausehe's never had to do anything
for himself.
Yes, but again you knew thatlike right with that.
Only I want to say and I couldbe wrong about this one, but I'm
pretty sure she said the momplanned the whole wedding too
yeah, well, the mom said that,how much work she did planning
(24:12):
the wedding wedding she made allthe decisions.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Because if you hear her talk a rachel talk she's
like oh, you know what?
I was just out of a badrelationship and I met you and
you were taking me all of thesedifferent places all around town
and she was like and then weretaking me all of these different
places all around town and shewas like and then you know, the
last five months we've beendoing the wedding stuff, I'm
like, but the mom was reallydoing the majority of the
wedding stuff.
That's not why you weren'tworking, sweetie.
(24:39):
You did not want to work, andthat's okay.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
But don't try to blame him and not take
accountability for yourdecisions right, but you not
taking your career seriouslyBecause, like, yeah, like it is
okay to not want to work becauseyou've created a situation
where you don't have to work, sothat's fine, but nobody is
taking your career from you,like and I've seen rich men that
do stuff like that, like thatdo kind of limit the way.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
That is not what Shane is doing, he's not he's's,
not because the fact that shethought even to say it to him,
spent time considering writingan article on her honeymoon.
It was disgusting and it wascompletely disrespectful and
(25:25):
crazy because Shane wasn'ttaking work calls.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
No, he wasn't taking work calls.
No, he wasn't sending workemails.
I said he didn't have a job.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
No, he works for his family's real estate company.
It's a family business, butyeah, he works for his family
real estate business, so he doeshave a job, but he honestly he
wasn't taking phone calls, hewasn't taking email, everything.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Any correspondence was about that damn room.
If you act like you, notwriting this puff piece is going
to end your journalism careerwhen anybody would understand
that you are on your honeymoon.
Honestly, women get morepushback for taking leave for
having a baby than being ontheir honeymoon.
Nobody was going to never offeryou another article again
(26:08):
because you said no on yourhoneymoon.
You make going to never getoffer you another article again
because you, you said no on yourhoneymoon.
You, you, you make enough stuff.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
The thing about it is is because she has that
financial support, she can writeabout whatever she wants she
doesn't have to.
Honestly, she doesn't have totake jobs.
You can write something andthen try to sell it you can
freelance.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
You can write two or three articles a year and just
make sure that they are reallyexcellent, because you have that
financial backing.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
You can do academic stuff.
He was not holding her backwhen I tell you she manufactured
and created that identitycrisis for no reason, no reason.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
So when Belinda does shut her down from fixing her,
it was so satisfying At somepoint she goes to Belinda crying
and trying to help andBelinda's like I ain't got it
today.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
No, because Belinda's been through enough.
She's already been used up.
No, because millennium beenthrough enough.
She's already been used up.
Like her, she's already had aguest like steal all of her
emotional healing from her.
So, like, the feud betweenArmand and Shane keeps
escalating.
Like Shane is asking for hisboss's like number and Armand is
(27:28):
giving him the runaround.
And like Shane has, like histravel agent, call and like,
tell Armand off, like, and itgets to the point where
eventually, the the uh, armand'smanager does get involved and
Armand thinks that he's alreadyin like in this unhinged,
(27:48):
drug-fueled like rage, right,and at this point rachel is like
she's left the room.
(28:08):
I think she's got in herdefecate in shane's suitcase.
Now, one to one caveat, therobbery that we talked about in
the previous episode with themoss barkers has already
happened and shane is aware thatthere was a robbery and shane
and is now in the honeymoonsuite, which is the nicest suite
(28:29):
in the hotel.
So he's worried because he'slike, how did this person get
into the room?
You know, are we going to getrobbed?
You know next?
So Shane is already on edgebecause, like, he found out
about another guest being robbedand Armand sneaks into his room
to defecate in his suitcase andShane finds it.
(28:55):
Shane finds it.
He's understandably upset.
I can't even imagine, girl, Ican't even.
I can't even process how Iwould have acted.
It would have been worse thanShane.
I feel like Shane was livid, hewas process how I would have
acted.
It would have been worse thanShane.
Yeah, like I feel like ShaneWas livid, he was angry, but I
would honestly lose my mind andthe hotel is like oh, do you
(29:17):
think your wife Did it?
That's what would have took inme, that's what would have
pushed me over the edge.
So Shane does not realize thatArmand is still in the room.
And so, like Shane eventuallyrealizes that Armand is still in
the room and I don't think heknows that it's Armand- no I
(29:38):
can't when they're fighting.
He thinks that he's being robbedand that person who robbed him
wrapped in his suitcase and likethey end up fighting and Shane
stabs Armand.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Armand is the dead body oh, because they said it
was a woman at the beginningthey never said it was a woman.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
They never said it was a woman.
No, no, we assumed he killedhis wife because his wife wasn't
there and they just said a deadbody.
We assumed he killed his wifebecause his wife wasn't there
and they just said a dead body.
We assumed it was he killed hiswife.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
But yeah, it was Armand okay, okay, yeah, I don't
know how I missed that either,um, because I remember I saw the
fight.
I remember him stabbing him.
I guess did I just not assumethat Armand was dead?
Mm-hmm, okay, maybe that was itokay.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
So it's Armand, oh yeah, and that's really sad
because, honestly, even thoughhe's a terrible, hotel manager.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
So entertaining when I tell you I know all the stuff
that he's doing is wrong, but itis so entertaining, it is so,
so, like I'm smiling, like allthe scenes with him and Shane
are hilarious to me.
Shane is an entitled jerk andso he's never had to really deal
(30:54):
with anything in his life.
I think that's also why it's sofunny.
This is the most difficultsituation Shane has ever had in
his life.
He's dealing with a difficulthotel manager.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Right.
So if you look at how thingsescalate, tanya steals Belinda's
time and her energy.
The Mossbockers steal Kai'sfreedom Although it's really
Paula that does it, I lump herin with them they still Kai's
(31:31):
freedom.
And Shane steals Armand's life.
He stole Armand's life, isn'tthat wild, mm-hmm.
But I Shane is not a villainthough.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
He's not a villain.
It's hard with that one becauseyou still got somebody in your
room.
You know what I mean and that'sthe scariest thing ever.
You go to a hotel, like youknow.
I went to a hotel one time andsomeone it was in a joining room
, but of course I didn't knowthe person on the other side of
the joining room and they justkept jiggling the handle and
that scared the crap out of me.
So I can't even imagine cominginto your room and there's
(32:12):
someone else in there.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
It was self-defense it was self-defense.
The thing about it is that thesituation didn't have to get to
that point.
It didn't.
And if one of them would havebeen willing to step down.
But Armand is in, like thisdrug binge, and so he doesn't
have the capacity to step down,and Shane has never, like you
(32:34):
said, been inconvenienced before, so of course he doesn't have
the capacity to step down.
On top of that, hisrelationship with his wife is
falling apart and he can'tfigure out why.
He doesn't understand, and Ifeel that because he really
can't figure it out, because sheis just tripping.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Because it doesn't make sense.
She's just manufacturing anissue and I agree that that
whole name thing is a thing thatyou have to wrestle with as a
woman who gets married, changingyour name and how attached you
are to your identity.
That's the realest part abouther whole little identity crisis
.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
That's the only real part, because my question is why
do you have all of thesequestions now?
Why didn't you interrogatethese feelings before you got
married?
Before you got married?
Speaker 2 (33:24):
You had five months of wedding planning to
interrogate these feelings,where you were perfectly happy.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Why didn't you ask why didn't you ask yourself
these questions what will mylife look like after I'm married
?
Am I going to keep doingjournalism?
But, like there's no reason,like even the even if she had
all of those questions, none ofthose questions needed to be
answered on the honeymoon.
No, she shouldn't have evenbeen able to have access to find
(33:52):
out that they wanted to giveher that job, because she
shouldn't have been checking heremail or answering work calls.
You were on your honeymoon.
It was like almost as soon asshe got to the hotel, she
started tripping.
She started tripping.
She started tripping.
She started tripping from thetime they called her Mrs Patton.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, she did, she did, you know, and I'm like and
here's the thing, you could havechecked, shane, about him
basically calling you poor allthe time.
You know what I mean, because Ido think that there's a part of
him that cares and he's neverlived outside of his own world.
You know what I mean.
So I'm like, but I do think hecares enough about her to at
least try, you know right, so Idon't know how far she would
(34:35):
have got with it, but I think hecares enough, like his care in
his own way again, is genuine.
And I'm like you don't reallylike this guy, but you like what
he attaches to him, which,again, I'm not even judging you
for at this point in life.
I'm not even judging you for Ijust need you to get over
yourself.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
I was asking myself during the second rewatch, when
I because I, during the firstrewatch I was just holding on
waiting for Shane to kill her,but during the second rewatch I
was just holding on waiting forShane to kill her.
But during the second rewatch Iwas like, why does she like him
?
She doesn't seem to likeanything about him.
She doesn't like how attractedhe is to her.
(35:15):
She doesn't seem to enjoy hispersonality.
Exactly, they don't seem tohave things in common.
She does not like his family.
What does she like about him?
And you know, we've seen theseshows before, right, where we
don't understand why a couple istogether, right, but we then
(35:39):
learn why they're together, likethrough the show.
The show will show us differentthings, why they're together.
Like through the show, the showwill show us different things.
And, honestly, we never gotthat from this show because she
does not like him.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
She doesn't like him, and that's the thing and I'm
like.
So either reconcile withyourself that like I don't like
him but I want to marry himbecause I want to be attached to
this money, you know, findthings that you can like about
him.
There are he has likablecharacteristics, he does.
I think you could findsomething Heck, even if it's
just his body.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Right, he's not unattractive.
You know what I mean.
He seems to be fun-loving and,honestly, he seems open to her
having a life that she can behappy with.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
He does, I think he genuinely wants her to be happy
with he does.
I think he listens to her.
I think he genuinely wants herto be happy.
He doesn't know what's gonnamake her happy.
Of course she doesn't knowwhat's gonna make her happy, but
I think he's open to like youknow, but whatever she decides
is gonna make her happy, I thinkhe'd be, he'd be cool with it.
He seems like it right?
Speaker 1 (36:41):
I agree, he's not.
He's not as terrible of aperson as I thought and she
although I knew she was annoyingwhen I watched it the first
time like oh, she's getting onmy nerves.
When I watched it the secondtime, I said she is a problem
and honestly, she's part of thereason why armand gets killed,
(37:02):
because he's having so manyproblems with her and he's
fixating on the thing that hefeels like he can fix, which is
the room situation, thinkingmaybe if I can get her into this
room and it'd be nice, maybeshe'll calm down.
You know what I'm saying?
Like so she was part of thereason why he was so fixated on
this room, because he's tryingto get like them, to chill out
(37:23):
and have fun.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
And she'll say, oh, don't worry about the room,
let's just have a good time, butthen she's not a good time
she's not she's so dry and Iguess it may be like in some way
I see that connection with herand the girls, because it's like
you think you're deeper thanyou are, like you really are
(37:46):
shallow as well.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Absolutely, absolutely shallow, completely
shallow, because, like, all ofher problems are manufactured
and you're making it seem likehe's a stumbling block to what
you want to do and he's actuallynot.
You admit that like you are,like your life was not going
(38:08):
well, you were like in adesperate place and now he's
telling you hey, you know youcan do it.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
You cannot do it, but like it's our honeymoon, like
let's just, let's enjoy thehoneymoon and you make it seem
like he's trying to hold youhostage and turn you into a
separate wife, and that man isnot trying to do that and I
would say this is the one goodpoint he and his mom have about
the money is that the moneymakes it so you can really do
whatever you want to do.
Figure out what the heck youwant to do.
That's just facts.
(38:35):
That's not even them beingarrogant rich assholes, that's
just facts.
The money that you don't haveto worry about money means you
can really take your time andfigure out whatever the heck it
is you want to do.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Right.
But like let's not marry into arich family, but they want to
like, like, for them to pretend,like that's not what it is.
You knew that you were marryingway, way up when you did it and
Shane is not an egalitarianperson.
So he he's, he was never likeoh I'm wealthy but that doesn't
(39:07):
make a difference.
No, he leads with his wealth,like he does, like.
That is very important to hisidentity and you knew all of
those things when you met him.
He's not the villain.
No, not really.
She made me side with a man,okay, she made me side with a
(39:31):
rich man right, crazy, work,crazy.
And like.
My question is like how are wesupposed to feel about Armand?
Like knowing that he ends updying, but also I didn't want
him to die he was such a goodentertaining character, like as
(39:53):
long as he was.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
I think that you know , the funny thing is like the
stuff with Shade doesn't evenreally bother me because it's so
entertaining the stuff that hedid to Dylan that was like right
, and also him beinginappropriate with the guest.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Stuff that he did to Dylan.
That was like uh, literallyRight.
And also him beinginappropriate with the guests.
Who, yes, was inappropriatewith him first.
Oh no, I don't have no problemwith that he would not let it go
, though he kept going after him.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
I have no problem.
Like what he, what the, whatthe dad said to him was so
egregious.
I ain't got no problems with howhe treated him, even though,
like, he was supposed to be themanager of the hotel and he was
doing everything but managingthe hotel and that's the thing,
like I honestly, truly wouldhave felt better about him
having an inappropriaterelationship with the dad than
him having an inappropriaterelationship with dylan, because
(40:38):
dylan is in a vulnerableposition, like the dad you
proposition in this dad who justsays something crazy to you.
I don't have no feelings aboutthat.
Y'all both grown, y'all arecomparable ages.
There's I mean, I guess there'sa, you could say there's a
power imbalance, but it doesn'tfeel like it really.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Well, the power imbalance would not be in
Armand's favor, though, if thereis a power imbalance, but it
would be in the favor of Mark,because Mark's the guest.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Right, Right.
But I'm saying, but even so,even then it doesn't feel like
Mark is using, I guess, you knowjust, I guess just to be
invasive, but not like you haveto sleep, you know what.
I mean Right, but that's whathe did to Dylan basically, but
that's what he did to Dylan andthat's why that, to me, is the
worst thing that Armand did.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
So yeah, I don't understand, like, because, like
in the first episode, likeArmand is like talking to the
trainee and he's like tellingher all of these things, oh,
everything must be perfect, wemust serve them, and all of this
stuff and then he immediatelystarts doing the opposite.
Mm, hmm, and immediately.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
The fact that that was.
We never saw that that girlagain, and you pointed that out
to me, I'm like we never did seeher.
She left to go have the baby.
We never saw her again, or hertail, other than the.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
I don't understand why they put that in the show at
all.
There was no like.
That served no purposewhatsoever and I kept waiting
for it to tie back in, but itwas like the most random thing
in the world in the world.
(42:18):
I don't understand.
It's like I honestly feel likethey're like oh we, we need to
have more Hawaiian cast members.
Okay, let's just create a maidand give her like a oh, she
wasn't a maid, she was like aresort worker, essentially and
let's give her a couple ofspeaking lines in the first
episode.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
See, I'm like did they have something that tied
her in that they cut, Becausethat's what it felt like to me.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, but I'm
like there was no real purposefor her teeny tiny storyline in
there at all.
Yeah, because it didn't helpdevelop the characters at all.
You know what I'm saying.
It was very weird.
I don't know, it was very weird, it was very out of place.
(43:02):
But I will say, overall, I didenjoy the first season.
It was like for me to enjoy ashow and they also have so many
unlikable people.
It's a testament, it's a skill.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Well, I would say, okay, I'm mixed, Like I did not
enjoy.
I didn't fully enjoy watching.
There were moments that, well,I'm mixed, I didn't fully enjoy
watching it.
There were moments that Ienjoyed, but I felt like I was
waiting for something to happenthat never happened in the show.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
What would that thing have?
Speaker 2 (43:34):
been.
I don't know.
I thought there was somethingunderlying going on at the
resort.
There was some kind of secret.
I thought there was somethingthat was going to happen.
That never happened, but I didenjoy talking about it.
I enjoyed talking about thesecharacters.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Now realizing that Armand died, do you feel any
different?
Because that was the thing thatthey foreshadowed in the first
episode.
It was going to be.
The thing that was going tohappen Is that what it is that I
missed, that Armand died.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
I don't know why, probably because I like the
villains.
A lot of times I do enjoy thevillains.
They're just more interestingcharacters.
So maybe that's like I justwasn't.
I wasn't, my brain was notaccepting that Armand is gone.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Well, you were like who died?
I'm like what do you mean?
Who died?
Speaker 2 (44:24):
I saw that whole scene.
I watched it.
Actually, like you know, I waspaying attention.
I saw him get stabbed and itstill did not click that he died
and but it also in my mind.
Yeah, I was assuming so hardthat it was a woman and that it
was his wife and so I thoughtthey said a woman.
I thought he said a woman diedon our trip.
I completely missed that yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
So I'm going to tell you there's something that
happened in the show that Icompletely missed and I saw
somebody reference it on TikTokand then I went back and I'm
like, how did I not see that?
So if you go to the firstepisode and you go in about 20
(45:07):
minutes, I want you to do itwhen we're done and I want you
to, like, go in and in about 20minutes into the first episode
and just pay attention and tellme if you saw that.
No, I'm not going to tell you.
Tell me if you saw that scenethe first time you watched the
(45:31):
show, because I did not.
I was like was this, was thisscene in the show the first time
?
Because I don't remember it atall and so you know, sometimes
we miss things and so things arepointed out to us.
So don't feel bad, but yeah, Ienjoyed talking about the show
(45:51):
yeah, and you were talking aboutit and so we keep throughout
this season running into what isa story.
So maybe for you this story wasnot entertaining, but it was
intellectually stimulatingbecause it created good
(46:12):
conversation.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Yeah, because it just kept building to something.
It was building suspense and Ifeel like I never got that
payoff.
But I guess if Orman's deathwas the thing it was building to
, okay, I don't know, maybe on arewatch I'll feel differently
when you think about it.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
That's kind of shocking because he went.
Everything changed so rapidly.
The show starts he's thelong-term manager of a high-end
resort and within the span ofwhat?
Eight episodes?
He is on a drug-fueled bingefeud with the guest.
(46:53):
That ends in his death.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Yeah, that is Okay, okay, Okay, I'll give you that I
don't know.
And here's the thing I do getattached to characters Like so
much.
So, like you know, I told youI'm watching Game of Thrones
right now For the first time.
This is the first time for meBecause I'm, you know, I'm a
little bit scary, and blood,guts and stuff like that scare
me.
So, anyway, when it gets to thescene, the first Sam Turley, I
(47:19):
believe, is his last name, butSam from the Wall, the chubby
guy who is a ghillie I thinkit's Tarwell, something like
that but his first name is Sam.
When Sam gets to the scene wherehe's hiding Ghillie in that
little house, and then he comesout and the White Walkers there,
I stopped.
It's like 10 minutes from theending of that episode.
(47:40):
I stopped and I did not turn itback on for days because I was
like I am not prepared to loseSam.
Sam is great, though I love Sam.
So I'm like I don't know if mybrain, like I know Armand is a
terrible person, but I just findhim so entertaining, so I'm
like I just literally did notsee that he died.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
I just my brain is like no, he went to a farm to
live out his life running aroundwith other Armands it's so
stupid.
But no, like Game of Thrones isa show where you cannot get
attached to a character becausethey have no qualms killing them
.
The first time I watched theshow, which was when it first
(48:21):
came out many, many, many moonsago, when they killed Ned Stark,
I was like what.
It blew my mind.
I'm like wait a minute.
He was the main character ofthe show.
He's gone.
How are we going to have a show?
You just realized that.
Listen, he is one of manypeople that we will meet.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Yeah that when I saw that part I think it's towards
the end of season two, the redwedding, season two, episode
nine I'm like I'm still shockedwhen they kill the wife and the
son and I was like there are nomore Starks.
(49:06):
We ain't got nothing but babyStarks.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Right, they decimated an entire family.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
We're out of Starks now.
Did y'all mean to do this?
Did you know that we ran out ofStarks?
Speaker 1 (49:19):
we can't go get a MacArthur did you know that the
Starks were a short supply?
Yeah, and it's.
You're not used to that likemajor power players.
And then it's like hold on,they were essentially almost
like the king and queen of.
And then it's like hold on,like they were essentially like
almost like the King and queenof their area.
That's how respected they were.
(49:39):
And they like, dang, they justkilling them up.
That's wild, like who does that?
Well, george RR Martin does.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Right.
So like the same way I'm like,cause I'm like.
You know, I think I had a bigidea that everybody wasn't
coming back for the secondseason, but I would have thought
it would have been Armand,belinda and Tanya.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Now, what made you feel like she would come back
for the second season?
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Because she's already talking about going to another
resort.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Oh, okay, okay, okay, but yeah.
So let me know when you'reready to start watching season
two, and I'll do it again.
But I'm just gonna warn youlike you're gonna be like who
are these folks and why are wein?
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Italy, right.
Well, yeah, I think that'sgonna be the biggest shock it
feels weird, like why are we inItaly?
Speaker 1 (50:29):
like like so, yeah, so let me know, I really enjoy
talking with you about the whitelotus I.
I feel like I got like evenactually I feel like I got a
deeper appreciation for the showtalking to you about it and
(50:49):
giving like, giving my.
Uh, I feel like controversial.
I feel like to me, my takes onthe show are very controversial
because no one's going to belike let's leave our kid in
Hawaii, or Shane is not actuallythat bad of a guy.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
Armand is the problem .
As funny as he is, Armand isthe problem.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
And Tanya doesn't deserve a happy ending.
Tanya, she doesn't, she's asuccubus.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
She's a succubus a bit, but yeah, she's going to go
from one man to another usingher for her money.
But I think she's okay withthat because she likes to use
her money as power.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
So we'll see you guys next time.
I think next we have somethingreally fun, more lighthearted,
coming up.
I think you guys will reallyenjoy it.
Have a great day, bye.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.