The Vicar's Dilemma: When Good People Make Terrible Choices

What happens when good people make catastrophic decisions? "Inside Man" pulls us into a riveting moral nightmare where one small choice spirals into unthinkable consequences.

David Tennant delivers a haunting performance as a well-respected vicar whose desire to protect his family leads him down a dark path. When he agrees to keep a parishioner's flash drive containing disturbing material, he unwittingly sets off a chain reaction that will destroy multiple lives. After Janice, his son's mathematics tutor played with chilling precision, accidentally discovers the contents, the vicar makes the fateful decision to imprison her rather than face the consequences.

The brilliance of this limited series lies in its unflinching examination of the gap between who we believe ourselves to be and who we actually are when pushed to our limits. As the vicar and his wife descend from respected community figures to kidnappers contemplating murder, we're forced to ask ourselves uncomfortable questions. Would we make better choices? How quickly would our moral boundaries dissolve if our family's reputation was at stake?

Stanley Tucci's character Jefferson, a death row inmate with an uncanny understanding of human nature, provides the philosophical framework for the series. "Everyone is a murderer," he claims. "They just haven't met the right person yet." Through his interactions with a journalist determined to prove him wrong, we explore how thin the veneer of civilization truly is.

The series culminates with a shocking twist that suggests new moral dilemmas on the horizon, leaving viewers to grapple with what they've witnessed. Have you ever wondered how far you'd go to protect someone you love? Watch "Inside Man" and confront the terrifying reality that you might not know yourself as well as you think.

Contact Niq & Jess

Episode Transcript

Niq (00:01):
Hi guys, welcome back to our episode.
As we continue discussingInside man, I'm your host, Niq,
and I'm Jess, and so last timewe kind of had a discussion
about like the theoretical, youknow, questions that the show
was answering.
So I really kind of just wantto talk about it from like a

(00:21):
plot perspective.
Okay, to talk about it fromlike a plot perspective okay, so
we have beth, who is ajournalist, and we she meets
janice on a train.
Beth is like being intimidatedby this guy on the train, and
the train is literally full ofpeople who are seeing this
happen and none of them aredoing anything.
One woman tries to step in andthen the guy starts like

(00:45):
intimidating her and what likepeople are just looking and not
saying anything and it is solike very scary yeah it was, it
was it I was.
I was so uncomfortable becauseI'm like man, this is so true,
even though there's like 50people on this train that could
very easily outnumber this oneperson.

(01:08):
Who's?

Jess (01:09):
causing the problem.

Niq (01:11):
no one wants to be brave enough to step in.
But then they'll all look withlike, oh, I feel bad for you,
kind of Right.

Jess (01:21):
You know what I thought was odd about that?
Yes to everything that you saidand it was crazy, but like I
could not understand, like, sothe first woman who tries to
intervene, who snaps a pictureof him and then he starts
intimidating her and he saysgive me your phone.
Why does she do it?

Niq (01:37):
what's the reason that she I think she's scared that he's
going to get violent with her.
He very much seems like thekind of person that would hit a
woman.
He.

Jess (01:43):
He does, but at the same time also you don't.

Niq (01:49):
Remember they're in the UK.
And he says something abouttaking a picture of me without
my permission is assault orsomething like that.

Jess (01:55):
He does, but he's actively assaulting another person.

Niq (01:59):
He is, but he's a white male and that woman whose phone
he had was like an Asian woman.
I don't know enough about theirlaws I don't but I know that
she probably felt uncomfortable.

Jess (02:12):
I know she felt uncomfortable and I know she did
it because she was scared.
So I'm like, I don't I say why,but I'm like, but I just can't
imagine responding that way,because I'm like what are you
gonna make me?
You don't?
You don't mean you gonna makeme.

Niq (02:24):
I also can't imagine.
But we are a little different.
You know, we're not going tolike, you're not going to sit
here and like and even like theway he was intimidating her,
like how she didn't move, howshe just like kind of, yeah, all
of that.
Beth is sitting down on thetrain.
He walks over and he puts hercrotch in his face, his crotch

(02:49):
in her face.
He puts his crotch in her face.
I would have punched him in hisdick well, I'm like, at the
very least move.

Jess (02:58):
You know what I mean like and do.
I think he would have chasedher or followed her, yes, but
like she doesn't even move and Imean I guess she could have
been in freeze or whatever.
But I'm like you don't.
Nobody, until Janice intervenes, really tries to, Because even
with the woman, the lady whotakes the picture of him
initially, yes, he does seemlike he has a potential for

(03:18):
violence.
You are also a lot more distantfrom him.
You know what I mean he wouldhave had.
I'm just like, I don't know.
But this is why Americans gotin trouble in Paris because we
kept getting pickpocketed ortried to get pickpocketed in
Paris and we was not going forit, we were fighting.
The pickpockets to the policehad to get to the point where
they had to say Americans, youheard in the pickpockets, Becca.

(03:39):
Maybe that is a culturaldifference.

Niq (03:41):
They're also on the train, so they're like in this enclosed
space.
And then I think, becausepeople don't carry guns in the
UK, they're more likely to carryknives, but I, just when he put
his crotch in my face, thatwould have been it.
For me, that would have been it.
At that point I'm like, at thatpoint I would have tried to move

(04:02):
and if you made it difficultfor me to move, then we're
fighting and I wouldn't havewaited that long because I feel
like if she like I feel like sheher best advantage would have
been to hurt him and open up forhim was when he had his crotch
to like.
Hit him in it and don't stophitting him until the train
stops or opens and then throwhis ass off of the thing.

Jess (04:23):
um, the same thing with, like the thing the lady from,
and I guess you're in fear somaybe you respond differently,
but I'm like she had somedistance, the lady who took the
picture.
So I'm like, while I get youbeing scared, you would have had
to come over here and get my upand phone.
I'm not getting up and walkingto you to give you my phone.

Niq (04:41):
You would have had to come, get it, come get my phone, you
would have had to come get it.
Come get this phone.
England has a.
Their society is like that fakepoliteness.
I think so.
I think maybe that's just likea difference between America.

Jess (04:59):
Because the pickpocket thing I'm talking about was like
during the Olympics.

Niq (05:02):
Oh, I remember People had like Americans.

Jess (05:04):
they kept like oh, I remember people had like
Americans, they had like theelectric the stun wallets, they
were fighting the pickpocketsand I'm like, maybe that's just
us, maybe that's how we justdifferent.
But I'm like when I tell you,I'm like because all you've
already made it clear thatthere's going to be a
confrontation, so we're going toconfrontate.
At this point you've made itclear we're not getting out of

(05:26):
this without a confrontation, sowe're going to confrontate.

Niq (05:32):
I don't know, did I disappear?
No, I can see you.
Oh, okay, my computer's beingweird.
So that's where Beth and Janicemeet each other and, like,
janice intervenes and kind ofputs an end to the situation, um
, and beth is very, verythankful and she's trying to

(05:54):
form a friendship with janicebecause she's like you know what
, like I think that you're soinspiring and I'm a journalist
and I would love to do a storyabout you, and janice is trying
to do everything possible to nothave a story written about her
and to also, like, not becomeher friend, which we talked
about, how she could possibly beon the autism spectrum, um, but

(06:15):
also she could just have somesecrets that we don't know about
she could have secrets, but Ishe could have, and the way the
show ended alludes to.

Jess (06:25):
I don't know if she has secrets already or she about to
have some secrets, but I thinkmore than that.
I do think she just does notvalue human connection in that
way.
Whether or not she's on thespectrum or not, she doesn't
want the connection, right, youknow, she's like seems to be
okay with minimal connectionwith her sister and that's all
she wants.
She wants to talk to her sisterat 9 o'clock on Sundays, right,

(06:48):
and outside of that she's goingto do her tutoring and she
wants to be alone.

Niq (06:53):
And so then we're introduced to the vicar, who is
a priest.
I don't know the difference.
Maybe it's just like whatdenomination he is, because he's
not Catholic because he can getmarried.
Right, he's married and theyhave a teenage son and he seems
like on his face to be like avery nice person, very caring.

(07:16):
You could tell he really enjoyshis job, he likes what he does.
And so when you meet the vicar,like one of his parishioners is
coming in and he's asking thevicar to do a favor and you can
tell immediately that thisparishioner has something wrong
with him.
He very much screams abnormal,maybe less mental capacity,

(07:41):
socially awkward.

Jess (07:44):
He's very socially awkward and something feels very off
about this person.

Niq (07:48):
Yes, and so what the parishioner asked him is he
asked him to hold his thumbdrive.
He basically tells the vicarlike hey, my mom is going
through my stuff and she's goingto find my thumb drive and it
has my adult material on it andI don't want to get in trouble.
And the vicar agrees to holdhis adult material.
First problem I have I wouldhave taken it from him and

(08:16):
immediately put it in the trash,because what was the vicar's
plan?
To give him back his porn.
I don't know, I don't know whatthe what him back his porn.

Jess (08:25):
I don't know.
I don't know what the plan was.
I don't know that he had a planother than just like he was
just gonna let him sit there inthe office.
He also has no clue.

Niq (08:34):
I don't think at that point he knows what kind he doesn't
know, he finds out what's on atthe same time that Janice finds
he just thinks that it'spornography.
Because this man is an adult, awell-on adult like.
He's a fully grown adult.
He still lives with his motherand his mother like doesn't want
him to have that material inthe house.
And you understand why later on.
Because when he talks to, when,like the mom is confronting him

(08:58):
, she's like I know, you haveyour porn, where is it?
Where is it?
And she's like I know what kindof stuff you're into.
The mom knows who and what herson is, you know.
But the vicar like agrees, whichI thought was a weird thing.
But I'm like okay, even if Iagreed to take your porn stash
so your mom doesn't find it, I'mimmediately throwing that thumb

(09:21):
drive away because you, I agreewith your mom that you don't.
If you have a thumb drive fullof porn, that's crazy.
Like you need to do somethingelse with your life and with
your time.
I'm not saying that anyone whoviews porn is a, it's an issue,
it's a problem.
But if you have to keep you, ifyou got your thumb, your your
porn on a thumb drive, that forwhatever reason, there's a

(09:45):
problem.
yeah, that's a step too far forme, so I would have immediately
destroyed it.
He does not destroy it.
He, oddly enough, takes it homewith him.
I also didn't understand that.

Jess (09:59):
So I was like trying to figure out, was it an accident?
Like was he just trying to graba thumb drive.

Niq (10:04):
So I don't think he was intentionally bringing the, the
flash drive home.
I think it was just in his handmaybe when he left, because
when he got to his house he justkind of tossed it into like the
tea basket.
Okay, so he tosses it in there.
Um, and janice comes over totutor the son, who doesn't even

(10:25):
want to be tutored that day.
He wants to go to like a musicconcert, and so janice needs a
thumb drive to give him likesome documents, like some
worksheets or something.
And so he gets the thumb driveand the dad is like, hey, that,
don't, look at the stuff onthere.
Mistake number two you shouldhave thrown the thumb drive away

(10:49):
.
But second of all, why wouldyou let your son use that thumb
drive?
It's not even your thumb driveand you know, at the very least
it has some form of pornography.
Even if it was regularpornography, why would you give
that to his tutor to use?
Does he hand it to her?

(11:10):
Does she grab it?
The son grabs it and gives itto janice, and then when he
comes in he's like, oh, the sonis making jokes and he, because
he likes to make his daduncomfortable, and he's telling
janet that it's his thumb driveand that he knows it's full of
porn and that it's his porn.
Because he doesn't?
I think part of it is becausehe thinks the porn on the thumb

(11:30):
drive is his dad's and hedoesn't want janet he's trying
to cover for his dad.
Yeah, right, but he also likes.
He like is excited andtitillated and about making his
dad uncomfortable, yeah.
And so at that moment the dadcould have very easily said,
actually, like, that's one of myparishioners thumb drives,
let's not use that.

(11:51):
Or please don't open in, like,when the son the first time the
son says it's my thumb drive, hecould have said what, like, you
think you're so funny?
That's not your thumb drive,you know.
But he's already told his sonthat it's his thumb drive and he
should have never done that.
The unnecessary lying irks metrue, true.

Jess (12:15):
And again your parishioner asks you that, because you're a
priest, lead him like I meannot that it should be at the
church, but like why did you,yeah, why did you bring it home?
Why did you?

Niq (12:24):
never.
But at the very least, likewhen your son picked it up,
instead of saying, oh, this ismine and it has my private files
on it, don't look at anything,he should have said, hey, that's
my parishioners like thumbdrive and it's, it's got like
their stuff on, so don't look atanything.
You know what I'm saying?

(12:45):
Like like why the lie?
I don't like that.
That.
That irritated me.
So Janice, even though she wastold not to like open any files,
she ends up opening files.
Now here's the thing I don'tthink Janice is super technology
inclined, like just the waythat she, like she doesn't even
Janice is super technologyinclined, like just the way that

(13:06):
she doesn't even have socialmedia on her phone.
I don't think she's supertechnology inclined.
But I also don't think that shewas snooping.
Like when there's thumbnailpictures, like you know, like
when you open a thumb drive,it's very easy just to see stuff
.

Jess (13:22):
Right or click on something accidentally you know
what I mean.
Like she's trying to putsomething on there, but she
clicks something that's alreadyon.
I can see that too, becauseshe's not very tech savvy, right
.

Niq (13:32):
So when she, so she's using the thumb drive which is she
like the son has just told herhey, you know, it's mine and
it's full of porn, you know,like, and he's being very cheeky
about it.
And when janice opens it up,she has the shock of her life
because there's c-sam materialon the uh, on the thumb drive.

(13:53):
And at that moment the is whenthe vicar also realizes what's
on there.
And then the vicar like soshe's like janice is like
freaking out, and she's like, ohmy god, oh my god, you know.
And she's trying there.
And then the vicar like so she'slike janice is like freaking
out.
And she's like, oh my god, ohmy god, you know.
And she's trying to explain tothe vicar hey, like this is
serious stuff on here.
And the vicar immediately it'slike oh, it's not his, oh, it's

(14:16):
not his.
And she's like, hey, you know,we need to figure out what's
going on, we need to call thepolice.
And he is just so the vicar isjust he freaks out, he does
freak out.
Yeah, because here's the thingimmediately they should have
just called the police.
Yeah, they should have called.

(14:37):
And the reason why is it calledthe police?
Right then, and there with herthere, that is a good point.

Jess (14:47):
Yes, you should call the police because, like, once you
realize what's on there, youneed to call the police on that,
on your parishioner absolutelylike.

Niq (14:55):
I don't.
Once again, see, I don't know.
I don't know what the rules arewhen you're a vicar, because
there are some denominationsthat are not catholic but still
have some of the catholic rulesabout confidentiality and all of
that stuff.
But he, this was not aconfession.
You know what I'm saying?
This was not a.
Even if you, it wasn't aconfession.

(15:17):
So I don't understand why hefelt the need to be like so
secretive and to protect thisperson first of all.
But second of all, if you callthe police immediately with
Janice there, call the policeand explain to the police what's
going on.
But they have technology totrace things like where stuff
originated, from what computerit came like.

(15:39):
It would be to me, I feel like,very easy to disprove that it
was like the Suns, because ifyou go through the Suns computer
, there's no material like thaton there.
You go through the Vickerscomputer, even the one at the
church, there's no material onthere like since she opened it
on the Vickers computer or onher own laptop.

(16:01):
I don't know.
Everything has time stamps.
You know what I mean.
So if you open something likethey can do so much tracing with
computers and files and stuff,I just feel like he lost his
mind and instead of just callingthe police at that moment I

(16:25):
would have called the policewith janice there.
I need you to come right nowand, like janice could have said
whatever she wanted to say oh,it's the sons, it's the sons,
it's the sons, the vicar, he's avicar.
He could have easily said it'snot my sons, it was never my
sons.
I got it from a parishionertoday.
She got the wrong idea dowhatever trace you need to do on

(16:48):
it.
Look at all of the computers inour home, look at the computers
in my office.
You know what I'm saying.
Like he could and instead hefreaks out.
He freaks out and like heimmediately, like janice, is
uncomfortable because he's nottrying to call the police, he's
trying to, and what, and it verymuch.
It looks like he's just tryingto protect his son and cover for

(17:10):
his son.

Jess (17:11):
It does.
It also looks like he's tryingto intimidate Janet.

Niq (17:16):
Janice, it very much so.
And then in the midst of him,like trying to calm her down and
stuff, he accidentally injuresher and it is.
And it is once again as theaudience you see that it's an
accident.
But if you're Janice, Iunderstand how you feel you
should have let her go.

(17:36):
Even if she would have takenthe thumb drive with her, I
would have been ready for whenthe police got there to explain
what was going on and be readyto.
I will submit to whatever andthey're like oh you know, it's
even just the accusation, evenjust the accusation.

(17:57):
If the police conduct aninvestigation and they find out
who it actually belongs to andthat person gets arrested, it.

Jess (18:08):
You know what I'm saying, like it well, okay, and here's
the thing janice like, becausewe talked about janice and her
morals and values in the lastepisode and they and not that
they know janice well enough toknow this.
But the crazy thing is, janiceis a reasonable enough person
for to say can you just not sayanything until after the
investigation, like you couldn'tdo that with everybody but one.

(18:28):
She doesn't have any contactwith the outside world really
and she is reasonable enough towhere you could have reasoned
with her like we are going tocall the police, but will you
just, you know, for our son'ssake, let them conduct this
investigation.
He's a minor and don't sayanything until then, so that we
don't ruin his reputation beforethe police figure out what
happened Exactly.

(18:51):
She really is somebody you couldreason with, but you should let
her out of that house.

Niq (18:54):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And so he injures her, he'sblocking her from leaving and
ultimately he ends up puttingher in the basement.
At the point that he decides toput her in the basement, it's

(19:17):
over.
There's no way out for him.
I feel like, at this point,there's no to me, there's no way
out for him.
I feel like at this point,there's no to me, there's no way
out.
But he has this insane ideathat he can somehow fix the
situation.

Jess (19:35):
So the everybody's reputations, which is so
important to him right, which Iget.
I get it because thataccusation is not like a one
that you, that anybody wouldtake lightly, but also like you
went from a possible, really badaccusation to now you are

(19:58):
imprisoning, kidnapping someoneand potentially wrestling with
whether or not you need tomurder them right, like you had
a rock and you dropped the rockand you pick up a cinder block.

Niq (20:15):
It's like you had a big enough problem.
You think you're going to justpick up an even bigger burden.
It doesn't make sense.
This is what I foundinteresting.
So the vicar decides that he'sgoing to record the parishioner
admitting that the material ishis and for.

(20:37):
As mentally challenged as thatparishioner seems to be, he was
smart enough not to admit to it.

Jess (20:46):
Mm-hmm, that was interesting to me too.
I'm like, oh, he's not going tosay it.
You think you're going to gethim to say it.
He's not going to say it.

Niq (20:57):
No, but also, once again, this is why the Vickers plan was
bad.
You are not an investigator,you're not.
You're not a professional,you're not used to dealing with
criminals and dealing with thesepeople.
Why not have the police, whohave experience dealing with

(21:17):
these kinds of criminals,conduct the investigation?

Jess (21:21):
Yeah, very true, very true .

Niq (21:24):
That way it's within the confines of the law.
But at this point he alreadyhas a Janet in the basement.

Jess (21:31):
That's true, he already has Janet in the basement.
And again, like when you're inthose kind of positions, you
also got to weigh things likeyeah, I get, you're a vicar and
that people come to you andconfess their sins and you're
supposed to have confidentiality, but there are limits to that
and that is the thing thatyou're dealing with is the
ultimate limit to that.
So because, like Edgar, who isthe actual guy, who the flash

(21:56):
drive belongs to, Edgar needs togo to jail.

Niq (22:01):
But also Edgar did not confess to him.

Jess (22:04):
He didn't confess to him.

Niq (22:06):
Again to your point about the police needed to be involved
regardless absolutely I don'tknow at what point he was
planning to get the policeinvolved to me.

Jess (22:17):
I don't think he ever was planning on getting the police
involved.
He has this weird.
He's not just protecting hisson, he's also protecting Edgar,
and that's the part thatdoesn't make sense.
I didn't understand that.
There's no amount.
Of you know I'm the vicar, I'msupposed to be this person or
whatever, to explain why you'reprotecting Edgar at this point.
This is not something that youneed to protect him from.

Niq (22:38):
No, I mean, he could have even went to Edgar's mother and
it's like like you have an issuewith his stuff.

Jess (22:45):
What do you know and like, let's go to the police together
, cause that shit also shouldhave been with, like I'm sorry,
I know that's your son, but youknow who your son is.

Niq (22:55):
Right.
So the vicar is like pressingso hard on Edgar.
He takes him, he meets him atthe bar, he's trying to get him
to confess.
That doesn't work.
He puts him in his car, hetakes him to the church.
He's trying to do everything hecan to emotionally manipulate
this man into confessing.

Jess (23:14):
He is no.

Niq (23:14):
Janice.
He is no Janice, he is not.
What does happen, though, isEdgar ends up committing suicide
In his suicide note what doesit?

Jess (23:29):
He says don't believe the vicar, he's not.
You know, he's covering forsomeone else, he's protecting
someone else, but he doesn't saywho he's protecting.
So it just it seems like yeah.

Niq (23:44):
So it really makes once again makes it seem like the
vicar is covering for his son.

Jess (23:50):
It makes the son look guiltier.

Niq (23:52):
And so, once again, the vicar is not a professional.
So you tried to conduct yourown investigation and this man
that you say that you weretrying to protect, he ends up
dead from suicide because of youtrying to emotionally
manipulate him, when you couldhave just went into the police

(24:12):
and he would have been in policecustody and then the community
would have protected, becauseyou have some level of
responsibility to your owncommunity and you know at this
point, you know who and whatEdgar is.

Jess (24:24):
Again, I don't understand that need to protect him,
considering what he's done Right.

Niq (24:32):
So now the police are kind of tipped off that something
weird is going on, but I feellike they kind of let it go yeah
huh, oh yeah, you never see thepolice again.

Jess (24:46):
You don't see the police again, you don't they?
Um, they question the vicar,they don't question the wife,
they just question the vicar,and then you never see or hear
from them again no, and I don't.

Niq (25:01):
Maybe they were like, maybe doing like background
interviews, maybe they weregoing to circle back to him, but
that note would have beendisturbing enough to me that I
would have been asking questions.
Also, that was the worstwritten suicide note ever, like
I'm like I feel like he wastrying to exonerate the vicar
because the vicar basically didhe tell Edgar that he's just

(25:23):
going to like he's going toadmit to it and say that it was
his to protect him, because he'strying to protect the vicar.
Then he decides that he's goingto go to the police and he's
going to confess and say thatmaterial was his to try to
protect Edgar and to try toprotect his son, which is also
crazy.
Why would you try to protect acriminal and someone who could

(25:44):
prey on the children in yourcommunity?
Does not make sense that's.

Jess (25:48):
I never get his desire to protect edgar like I'm yeah, I
don't get it.

Niq (25:53):
I don't get it either.
I, I don't get it either.
It doesn't make sense to meeither.
And so edgar is trying to savehim by doing the worst suicide
note ever.
That only just makes thingsmore confused, so much worse.
And so like every decision thevicar is making is just making
things worse, like the while thepolice are there, like they

(26:16):
have janice in the basement andlike the wife is down there
trying to keep her calm and likejanice is trying to manipulate
the wife and janice ispretending like she's, like
they're hitting her and blamingthe each other to try, try to
put them against each other.
To a certain extent it works.
The husband does not trust thewife, the wife does not trust

(26:38):
the husband because she can veryclearly see that Janice is
manipulating him and they're nocloser to a real solution.
And all of this at this pointthey're hiding from the son, who
is also not crazy and thinkssomething's going on, because
he's like, oh, what happenedwith Janice?
Because he ends up leaving andgoing to the music festival and

(27:01):
so he is oblivious that Janicethinks that sea sand material
was his.
He doesn't know that it exists,yet but what he knows is that
he's still seeing Janice's stuffhere.
He's like why is her stuff here?
And then he's calling Janice,like hey, you left your stuff.
He's like, oh, is Janice upset?

(27:24):
And he's putting two and twotogether like something is weird
.
Something's like oh, is Janiceupset?
And like he's putting like twoand two together Like something
is weird, something's off, yeah,you know.
And he eventually finds Janicein the basement.
So at this point the wife islike, hey, we got a killer, we
got a killer, we got a killer.
Maybe we shouldn't kill her,you know, whatever.
And so once, once again, thevicar who wants to be the good

(27:46):
guy, wants to be the hero, helike sends his wife off and he
decides that he's going to killjanice because it's the only way
to protect his son, um and?
But he decides to do use carbonmonoxide, which I think is the
worst way to kill someone, likebecause you're like trying to
catch her off guard.
So she doesn't know and shewon't feel like you're a

(28:08):
terrible person.
But you, it doesn't matter howyou kill her, you're a terrible
person.
Yeah, pretty much.
Because why is your son moreimportant than janice?
janice didn't do anything, justlike your son didn't do anything
right right, you know you likeyou put Edgar before Janice,

(28:29):
because in the very beginningthe first thing you could have
said was it's Edgar's.
I can prove it.
Let's call the police.
I'm so horrified you know whatI'm saying Like there's so many,
like he puts everybody's lifeahead of Janice's, because

(28:50):
Janice didn't do anything.

Jess (28:51):
Janice, didn't?
She showed up for her job,showed up for work, right
exactly so he.

Niq (28:57):
So what the vicar doesn't know is that his son is in the
basement, um, and I don't knowhow the son oh, the son was
already in the basement and Idon't know how the sun oh, the
sun was already in the basement.
When he brings down the heater,but the sun was hiding, because
I'm like, how did he bring downthe heater and the sun didn't
know the sun was hiding.

(29:18):
He brings down the heater, heturns it on.
The sun.
Nor Janice understands that theheater is actually like a
murder tool.
They just think he's like,understands that the heater is
actually like a murder tool.
He's like, oh, it's cold downhere, let me, let me warm you
guys up, let me warm Janice up.
He doesn't know the sun's there.
So he goes upstairs and then hetapes.

(29:38):
You know, he tapes up the doorand the son, at this moment, is
like questioning Janet and itseems at this point that he's
concerned about Janet's safety.
And you know, like that's likethat's how the conversation
starts.
He's like, oh, my God, what'sgoing on?
Why would they have you downhere?
And he, like Janet's like, hey,you need to call somebody.

(29:58):
You got your phone.
And he's like, oh, my batteryis about to die and he decides
at that moment that he needs tolaunch an investigation and call
his parents and ask them what'sgoing on.
Your parents have not told youso far.
You see, the woman is in thebasement.
Let her go.

Jess (30:16):
You got a good indication that she's been down there since
your tutoring session wassupposed to happen.

Niq (30:22):
Right.
You don't even need tounderstand or know what is going
on, because if they could, ifjanice did something so terrible
that your parents needed tocall the police on her, they
would have called the police onher.
She's.
She's in your basement, she'sobviously a victim.
Let that woman go, and hedoesn't.

(30:44):
He decides that what he needsto do instead is try to figure
out what's going on.
Right, and he's down there solong that he's feeling like the
effects of the carbon monoxidegets locked in himself, like
he's now.
You know yeah, once the dad goesupstairs, he locks the door and
tapes the door closed, becausethe dad didn't know he was down
there and he called the dad fromthe basement and is asking him

(31:09):
questions and did nothing tomention that.
Hey, by the way, I'm in thebasement with janice too.
I, like he's like dad, tell methe truth.
And his dad was like I wouldnever lie to you.
And I would be like, well,that's really funny, because I'm
down here in the basement withjanice Immediately.
Immediately, because this isthe thing.

(31:30):
I don't care why she's downthere, I don't have to
investigate, I'm about to lether go.
At the very least, I'm going totell you I'm in the basement so
I can get out of here, and thenI can decide, once I'm no
longer in the basement, how Iwant to proceed If I'm going to
call the cops, if I'm going todo whatever, but I'm not going
to be stuck in this basement, no.

(31:53):
So while the son is in thebasement launching his very
terrible investigation with 3%battery, the mom ends up going
to Janice's house to drop offstuff, and that's when she runs
into the journalist.
And ultimately, she ends upgoing to janice's house to, like
, drop off stuff and that's whenshe runs into the journalist
and ultimately she ends up dead,which is so interesting because

(32:14):
once again that is the vicar'sfault that she's dead.
So the vicar has nowessentially killed edgar and
essentially killed his wife, allbecause he just did not want to
do the right thing, which wasthe hard thing it would.
To me it wouldn't have been thehard thing calling the police,
but for him it was like the hardthing was calling the police

(32:38):
because he felt like his son'sreputation would be tarnished.
Do you think the son wouldrather have his mom or his
reputation?

Jess (32:45):
okay, he would rather have his reputation and his
reputation Okay, he would ratherhave his reputation, and I
guess what I'm thinking of thiswhole time.
I'm like, first of all, like,okay, I get it.
Your son's reputation will bedragged.
His life is going to be foreveraltered.
You also ain't got to stay inthis town Once all this stuff
gets sorted out.
There's other places that needa vicar.
You know what that was mythought yeah, your son is going

(33:10):
to sustain some damage that hedidn't deserve because this is
not his stuff.
But once all this is gone andthe police now say that we're
free to roam about the cabin,that's it In the town that
you're in, it doesn't matter.
There are always going to bequestions.
There's always going to bequestions.
There's always going to bepeople who are going to assume
things and make judgments, evenwhen the truth comes out.

(33:32):
The best thing is to just pickup the whole family and move.

Niq (33:36):
That's very true.
I didn't even think about that.
Absolutely Move.
I understand it's not a bigcountry, but it's big enough.
They change accents every fivefeet.

Jess (33:50):
I don't care, like you, know what I mean.

Niq (33:53):
I'm moving to Cardiff.
Okay, malta, you know what Imean.
Moving makes perfect sense itdoes moving makes perfect sense.

Jess (34:04):
I know he's not wrong in the sense that the accusation is
going to have an effect on hisson, even though he knows it's
not true and even though at somepoint it could be proven false.
Right, you know what I mean.
And I mean you might get thatmom to testify once the vicar,
because she does seem to placesome value in the vicar.
You know what I mean.
So maybe she would come throughand testify to clear your son's

(34:27):
name.
Right, knowing what her son is,you would have had to go
through it, because what we'renot going to do is imprison and
kill this woman who showed up todo her job.

Niq (34:40):
To do her job.
Absolutely, showed up just todo her job.

Jess (34:44):
Just to do her job.

Niq (34:45):
She's actually really good at her job incredibly good with
your difficult behind son yeah,I agree.
I just I don't.
I would like to believe in ahigh stress panic situation that
I would make better decisionsthan he made we all do so.

Jess (35:08):
Yeah, there's some definite judgment here, but
because we all do think, like,even with the situation of us, I
still, like you know, I lookthrough it like, oh my God, I
would do things so differently.
But you know, yeah, there'ssome level measure of when
you're in that stressfulsituation.
Yeah, you don't make thedifference.
The best decision is because ofthe stress.
I get that.
But I do think it's a bit likethere's always that underlying

(35:32):
question of morality and valuesgoing throughout this TV show
and the dad places such highvalues on what everybody else
thinks about him and thereforealso his son and his son is the
most important thing in his lifeso that trying to protect that
reputation becomes paramount toyour just basic survival getting

(35:54):
out of this situation.

Niq (35:56):
Right.
So ultimately the journalist isable to get to the house and
rescue Janice oh, wait, a minute, we skipped a part.
So the son is in the basementwith Janice and the carbon
monoxide has gotten to his head.
But somehow he's been able topiece together everything that's

(36:20):
happened and he figures outthat Janice thinks that CSAM
material was his and he getsupset with Janice.
Does he hit her with a shovel?
I thought a hammer, hammer.
Okay, he hits her with a bluntobject and at that moment in my
mind I thought Janice was dead,me too.
But ultimately, like the dadfigures out he's in the basement

(36:42):
.
Who lets him out the basement?
Is it there?
Oh no, I think the wife ends uptelling him that he's in the
basement.

Jess (36:55):
She's leaving him messages but he didn't pick it up
somehow the dad figures out thathe's in the basement.

Niq (37:00):
he goes downstairs and the dad also thinks that Janice is
dead, and so he's like trying totake credit for it.
He basically tells the son toget out To get him.
He's trying to take credit foressentially killing Janice.
You come to find out thatJefferson, the guy on death row,
he does some shenanigans andends up sending a team over to

(37:27):
the Vickers house because hefigures out that the that's like
that's the only place thatJanice could be, because that's
like the last place that she wasseen and no one's seen her
since.
So, like the team gets there,like the journalist gets there,
and you find out thismiraculously, and it is very
miraculous because, honestly,like Janice has been through
hell, like she has like beenthrough hell, she's like been

(37:52):
like starved, kind of beaten,she's been through a lot and
then she got hit with the hammerbut she is alive and so like.
So Janice ends up gettingrescued and the vicar ends up in
prison, as he should.

Jess (38:10):
As he should at this point , but we never figure out what
he's charged with.
No, and I do want to know indetail what he's charged with.

Niq (38:18):
At this point now.
Edgar is dead, the vicar's wifeis dead and the vicar is in
prison.
What do you think his son'slife is like now?

Jess (38:31):
Exactly.
Yeah, it's horrible and to somedegree, depending on how much
came out and that's the otherthing that I'm a little bit
frustrated that we didn't get toknow is whether or not
everything.
So I know people know that thevicar's in prison, but how much
do people know about why he's inprison or what led up to it?
Because I'm like that only isyour son's life bad because he's

(38:53):
one parent that's dead and oneparent that's in jail.
What do people think of him?

Niq (38:59):
I'm going to say, I'm going to go out on a limb and say
that that murder trial wasprobably so big that the vicar
either did one of two things heeither confessed to everything
and he would that would includethe c-sam material and just say,
oh, it was mine and she wastrying, she thought it was his

(39:19):
and I.
That's why I was like keepingher.
He either he either likeconfessed to everything or he
told the freaking truth and likethe police would be able to
corroborate his story.
Yeah, so I do.
But I think even the wholesituation is salacious enough to

(39:40):
still.
I feel like that would followhim more than the actual CSAM
allegations.
You're never gonna live it down.

Jess (39:47):
No, that would follow him more than the actual CSAM
allegations.

Niq (39:49):
You're never going to live it down?
No.
And then as?

Jess (39:52):
a teenager, you don't even have the option to just pick up
and move.

Niq (39:56):
No, but also I feel like you know when some, anytime
someone would probably Googleyou like that story is going to
come up about your dad.

Jess (40:04):
Yeah.

Niq (40:05):
You know.
So at least if they had Googledyou and a story would have came
up about the accusation, theywould have been able to say oh,
they conducted an investigation.
It turned out it was the creepyparishioner.
And so it's like the dad, intrying to run away, honestly ran
to everything that he wasafraid of.

Jess (40:29):
He lost his entire family.
The son is still going to havethis huge shadow cast on his
reputation, and the mom is gone.

Niq (40:36):
And the vicar lost his reputation too, and his place in
the community and his job,which he loved.
He lost everything.
Just being so irrational andfeeling like you can, like you
can solve the problem on yourown, which it just doesn't make
sense.
You didn't create that problem.

(40:58):
That problem was bigger thanyou.

Jess (41:01):
There's so many opportunities even when he
threatens edgar like hethreatens edgar, he was like I'm
gonna take.
Even when he threatens Edgarlike he threatens Edgar and he
was like I'm going to take.
When he like says that he'sgoing to take responsibility for
the flash drive, and then andhe's like, so you know,
basically kind of like youbetter never do this again.
I'm like do you think that'sgoing to work?

Niq (41:20):
No, he's a sicko.
That's not going to work.

Jess (41:23):
Edgar is still who he is.
He's had no.
You know what I mean.
Like what do you think you didyou think that threat is gonna
make him stop?
You don't think his mom beenthreatening him his whole life.

Niq (41:32):
She knows who he is right, she was like wasn't she like
beating on him?

Jess (41:36):
beat the crap out of him and that, and he knew that was
gonna happen too, so she's beendoing that.
That did not work right.
So what were you really good?
I, for the life.
He knew that was going tohappen too, so she's been doing
that.
That did not work Right, sowhat were you really going to?
I, for the life of me, will notunderstand his desire to
protect Edgar.

Niq (41:53):
I don't understand either, but also like how weird Edgar
was, how creepy he was, heshould have.
I feel like he should haveexpected that something weird
was on there, like even if itwasn't like CSAM material, it
could have been like snuff filmsor dead bodies.
I would assume it was going tobe weird stuff.

Jess (42:13):
If you are a grown man who , yes, you live with your mom,
but it can't even be in thehouse, something up.
Maybe he didn't get that farwith it, because I guess he
caught him on his way homeanyway, you know what I mean he
was running out of the church orwhatever, but like Well, he was
in his office when he gave itto him, though.
Yeah, but I'm like, but whendid he leave?

(42:34):
Because he leaves shortlyafterwards, I'm guessing.

Niq (42:36):
He does, I don't know.
I just feel like.

Jess (42:39):
You know what I mean.
Like you're like okay, yeah,I'll take it.
It's time for me to clock outessentially and go home, right.

Niq (42:47):
I would have said yes, I will take it as soon when I tell
you.
As soon as Edgar walked out ofthat door, I would have put it
in the trash because I'm like doyou think you're going to come
back and say, hey, can I get myporn thumb drive?
I know you didn't think thatyou were about to come back to
me.
I'm a priest and you're goingto ask me for my porn thumb

(43:11):
drive back.
No, you can't ask me for that.
So it should have immediatelybeen destroyed.
But also, there was no.
There was like okay, if youhave this much material on a
thumb drive, we need to talkabout resources for you.

Jess (43:30):
Yeah, that's true, we need to talk about even if you
didn't know what was on therethe fact that you have that much
, the fact that you like it'sjust a lot of secrecy and it
just feels uncomfortable.

Niq (43:39):
Yeah, you, you, you need some help even if it's just a
therapist to help with your mom,while it's okay for you to
indulge in this activity, likehe gave him no resources, no
help.
He's just like, yeah, yeah,sure, I'll take your pointy
thumb drive from you.
Maybe he wasn't a good vicar.

(44:03):
I don't think he was.
Like I'm like it's one of thosethings.
This is like a Maybe he wasn'ta good vicar.

Jess (44:07):
I don't think he was Like I'm like it's one of those
things.
This is like an outpouring ofhow good you think you are, more
than you know you really doingthe work.
Because, again, yeah, it wasjust weird, the situation was
weird and it was creepy and,yeah, there was no intervention.
Even if you could intervenethat day, you didn't set up a

(44:28):
council session.
Okay, I'm going to take thisfrom you, but we need to talk
about this.

Niq (44:32):
Right.

Jess (44:33):
But you know what?

Niq (44:35):
I think that gap between who we think we are and who we
actually are yeah, that's trueIs a real thing and it's ripe
for exploration because, justlike the journalist.
And it's ripe for explorationbecause, just like the
journalist, like she professedto be one person and then
Jefferson very quickly showedher- who she was.

Jess (44:53):
I agree it's that gap between yeah, I love the way you
put that the gap between who wethink we are and who we
actually are.

Niq (44:58):
Yeah because, like the mom, like she was, she went from
being a suburban mom so quicklyto a co-kidnapper.
Because, like she could havecalled the police, she could
have let her out.
You know, like put a stop, likeokay he made, because his

(45:19):
charges would have been so lesslike every minute that Janice
was in the basement.
The situation was moreuntenable and harder to explain.
You know like it was, I don'tknow.
I got so and I enjoyed the showoh yeah, I enjoyed it.

Jess (45:42):
We definitely enjoyed the show, enjoying, like, all the
moral questions that it bringsup what would you do in certain
situations which I think is likethe those questions are floated
out there because I thinkyou're supposed to think about
you know yourself and your ownmorality, what you think you
would do versus what you woulddo.
It was very enjoyable, right,you know, like the topics and
the subjects are kind of heavythey are, they are.

Niq (46:03):
But I think that it I feel like they chose like one of the
worst things that you could findbecause they want to make it
was to be very clear on howserious it is.
You know what I'm saying?
Like finding material like that.
It is so serious that whoeverbelongs to their life is over
yeah, Essentially serious thatwhoever belongs to their life is

(46:25):
over yeah, Essentially and so.
But I feel like the vicar wentto the drew the wrong conclusion
.

Jess (46:34):
Because everything was about everything was about him
being a vicar, everything wasabout him being a vicar.
So, like this is like okay,what am I supposed to do in this
situation?
Because I'm the vicar, I'msupposed to protect him.
I'm not supposed to tell hissecrets.
I understand him trying toprotect his son more than I
understand him trying to protectEdgar.
Right, because I'm like there'sgot to be a limit.

(46:56):
And again, I'm not even surewhich denomination he is.
He refers to himself as a vicar.
He wears the priest's collar,but he's married with children,
so he's not a priest, butthere's got to be some line to
where Episcopalian orPresbyterian or Anglican or
something like that, you know,but because yeah, like the at

(47:20):
what point is it aresponsibility to protect the
community?

Niq (47:23):
right, I don't, I just don't.
I know that, like when it comesto like catholicism, like
confession is very, very sacred,and I don't think that there is
.
I don't think it's like therapy, where if they say certain
things you're allowed to tell,you're not supposed to tell
anything, right like.
But in this context there wasthat.

Jess (47:45):
It wasn't a confession.
It doesn't make sense.

Niq (47:49):
There is no, I can't understand his thought pattern.

Jess (47:53):
He did not tell you in confession.
He gave you literal proof, likea lot of times you have.
You might have a suggestion,you might have a concern,
another concerned citizen, youmight have a he said, she said
versus you know know thing withlike two different parishioners.
He gave you concrete proof ofwho he was and what he does does
it go and maybe I'm reaching, Icould be reaching.

Niq (48:17):
I feel like a lot of times the church does not value
children the way that it shoulda lot of religious institutions.
There's a lot of abuse ofchildren and it's a lot of
covering up which is interestingbecause he alludes to that in a
sense of people are going tobelieve it.

Jess (48:39):
He says a line like people are going to believe it because
I'm a vicar, but again, that'sabout how that affects you.
You still never do the thingthat people actually want you to
do, which is to protect thechildren.
People say that becausehistorically, children have not
been protected.
Right, I mean and so, but yourinstinct is still not to protect
them, is to protect yourselfand so, but my thinking is is

(49:02):
that the reason why he waswilling to protect Edgar?

Niq (49:05):
Because, as an adult, he values Edgar more than these
unnamed children that he doesn'tknow?
Yeah, which I don't know how hevalues, whether he values Janet
, who he does know that's verytrue, I don't understand his

(49:28):
thinking.

Jess (49:29):
I don't either, and I don't know.
This is very loosely related,but again, grasp of the straws
here.
Like Morag refers to Jeffersonas like a you know, like a
villainous misogynist.
You know what I mean.
I like that was interesting tome because I'm like I don't
clearly see misogyny for himfrom him.

Niq (49:50):
But she said that and I believe her well, I don't know
like he very much talks down tobeth the journalist and the way
that he talks about the wifethat he discovers kills her
husband, he very much has acertain amount of condescension

(50:11):
for women.
I could see it, even the waythat he talks about his wife's
murder.
There's some things.
I could see it, even the waythat he talks about his wife's
murder, like it's.

Jess (50:23):
There's some things.
Yeah, I didn't doubt her.
It wasn't a really clear-cutcase, but I didn't doubt her
when she said it.
But I'm thinking the same thingIs Edgar's life more valuable
because he's a man?
Because clearly Janice is morebeneficial to society?

Niq (50:41):
Right, I definitely think that this show plays with the
fringes and plays with themargins.
You know, like they, they liketo like walk that line, they,
they, they really blur the linesso that you can draw your own
conclusions.
Yeah, because I I feel like twopeople could watch this show
and could feel very differently.
Like somebody else could seethis as like, oh you know, I

(51:02):
would sacrifice anything to savemy child.
Right.

Jess (51:07):
You know that I.
It's that line of belief.

Niq (51:10):
Here's the thing though I am some, I feel like I am that
person, like I would do anythingto save my child.
But I don't feel like that'swhat he was doing, because I
just feel like you know withouta shadow of a doubt that that
material does not belong to yourson.
You know without a shadow of adoubt who that material belongs
to.

(51:30):
So if I was going to save mychild, I would have called the
police immediately, told themeverything.

Jess (51:37):
I knew and sent it over, which needed to happen anyway,
because Edgar does need to belike.
People need to be protectedfrom him, right?
Yeah, no, I agree, he very muchsaw it as I need to protect my
child at all costs.
Situations when it was like butthis is not a life or death
situation for your child andyour child does have a way out

(51:59):
of it, and it's about holdingthe person accountable.
Who was responsible, right?
And that affects your child too.

Niq (52:08):
And just the way that he was like talking to Janice and
trying to like not let her leave, and I'm just like it
immediately got weird.

Jess (52:20):
It immediately got weird, it really got uncomfortable and
I'm like and how do you notrealize at this point that you
blocking a door is going to feelintimidating to any woman?
You know what I mean?
That you continuallyapproaching her when she's
backing away from you is goingto feel intimidating.
So yeah, that that layer ofmassage who you all value and

(52:43):
who you all don't.

Niq (52:45):
You know, like that is very like.
I don't know if men reallyunderstand how easily it is for
a woman to get physicallyintimidated and how, like, often
we feel intimidation and theymay not even know that they're
being intimidated, like I've, Iwill see women in conversations

(53:06):
and then next you know likethey're stepping back to create
space you know what I mean likethey're looking around, like and
it just happens so naturallybecause that's what we're used
to and a lot of times I feellike men don't even realize that
they're being physicallyintimidating.
A lot of times they do and theyuse it to their advantage.
But as women, like we aretaught to look for the signs

(53:29):
before the signs.
You know like to monitor, likeyou know, men's temperature,
men's moods, to check the waythat we say stuff.
You know men's temperature,men's moods, to check the way
that we say stuff.
You know to try to de-escalatesituations and, when we can't,
to create space or to prepareourselves to defend ourselves.

(53:49):
And I don't, as I don't thinkthat he even understood how, in
that moment, how intimidatingand scary that was for Janice.

Jess (54:02):
I don't know why, like that one scene where the wife is
holding her hands to the windowand he's talking to her.
I was scared for the wife.
I was like, oh god, he's gonnathrow the window down on her.
Imagine he doesn't hurt thewife, he doesn't do anything to
the wife.
But even that one kind ofcreeped me out a little bit once
you cross a certain line, youare capable of anything and he
says my son is the mostimportant person in the world,

(54:25):
or like my son is more importantthan anything.
And I was like you're sayingthat to your life and I do get
how important children are topeople like I.
Get that.
I don't take nothing away fromthat.
But you're also saying this toyour wife, who you've endangered
in so many ways unnecessarily.

Niq (54:41):
Right At this point, because she's so complicit in
the situation she has no futureeither.
She's all tied up in thiskidnapping of Janet.
He sacrificed her future, too,for a situation that never had a
real solution.

Jess (55:00):
He did.
He sacrificed everybody'sfuture in the situation to save
one his son.

Niq (55:07):
Who, in the end, doesn't end up being saved?
I don't think so, because evenif he manages to escape the
situation without charges, he isgoing to be so psychologically
damaged.
His mom is dead.

Jess (55:22):
He knows what he did to janice, even if his dad is
taking credit he liked it likethey had a good relationship,
like a good working relationship, and the son is, like he's kind
of difficult, he's in hisrebellious phase, so for him to
connect to an adult, that wassignificant and the son ended up
having to move anyway becausehe moved in with his uncle or
aunt or something like that, andI'm just like I'm like.

Niq (55:45):
Now he is a more damaged version of himself and he's
already crossed that line intophysical violence.
Well, guess what?
Anytime he's upset, it will beeasier for him to go back to
that place.
You've opened a door for himthat was closed before.
Yeah, so I I have never seensomeone mess up a situation more

(56:10):
than I think the vicar didagreed, so I don't know.
I wonder what made them decideto do this as a limited series?
I think it was like what?
Four episodes?

Jess (56:23):
Yeah, four episodes.

Niq (56:25):
Four episodes about an hour long.
And here's the thing though UK,they are not scared to create a
short season.
They are not scared they willdo a three-episode season and
look at you dead in the face.
Faces, if that's normal, andthe shows are always so good.
They are always so good andthey can do a lot with a little

(56:48):
bit of time.
They do.
They will pack in a lot, butI'm always like, hey, I could
have had a little more.
Yeah, I'm always a little bithungry because I'm like give me
more, give me more.

Jess (57:03):
The way that it ended is the perfect setup for a second
season, some different.
So the way that the show ends,janice is actually asking comes
to visit Jefferson in prison,you know, and asks him to help
her murder her husband, which wedid not know.

(57:24):
Janice had a husband, right,we've never seen the husband,
don't know what's going on atall, and she comes in so calm,
cool and collected and asks forthat help from Jefferson and it
seems like he's amenable to itand I'm like oh, oh, this sets
up such a you know good to diveinto some more moral questions.
And is he going to help her andwhy and where is it going to go

(57:46):
?

Niq (57:48):
if Janice is running away from her husband, that would
explain why she doesn't have astrong social media presence,
why she's hesitant to be outsocially while she keeps her
life so small.
It would make sense.
It would make sense Because,imagine, with this story it was
a big news story, so it wouldprobably make it very easy for
him to find her after this.

Jess (58:09):
Yeah.
So I'm like why would you setus up like that if you never
planned on doing a second?

Niq (58:13):
season, right, I don't know .
This was not a fly-by-nightseason, right, I don't know?
Like this was not afly-by-night production.
Like they had David Tennant,they had Stanley Tucci, they had
what I thought was Cyndi Lauper.
It was not Cyndi Lauper.
The Vicar's Wife I thought wasCyndi Lauper, it was not Cyndi
Lauper.
Definitely doesn't look likeCyndi Lauper to you.

Jess (58:34):
I mean that's who you said something, I to you, I mean
that's who you said something.
I'm like, if she got her hairbrown, then okay, I can see it.

Niq (58:38):
I was like I didn't even know Cyndi Lauper was acting.
That was not Cyndi Lauper.
But they have high qualitywhich, if I'm very honest, the
UK actually, they tend to havehigh quality actors.
Maybe it's just the shows thatI watch.
I very seldom watch, I thinkmaybe trash British TV.

(58:59):
Yeah, I think I'm only seeingthe best of the best.

Jess (59:03):
It's probably not making it.
If it is trash, though you saidwhat Probably not making it to
our Right, that's what I'msaying.

Niq (59:09):
I'm like you know what?
Actually, they probably havetrash TV.
I don't have access to it.
I tend to watch the best of thebest.
I'm watch, I tend to watch thebest of the best.
So I'm like I don't understandwhat they were doing with this
show.
But I'm like you set up thesereally great characters, this
like really compelling story andall of these open-ended

(59:30):
questions for a limited series.
Why would you do that?

Jess (59:35):
Why would you do that?
Because, like, even like, I'mnot even upset that we don't get
answers.
Well, to some of the questions,like the more plot questions, I
do want answers, but, like themoral questions, of course, I'm
perfectly fine with leavingthose open.
Let's do a whole nother set ofmoral questions next season that
you don't answer also that'sfine.
But, also, why does a womanwant to kill this man?
Why does she?

Niq (59:54):
want to kill her husband.
Why did you cut off your wife'shead and that's the other thing
I'm like.

Jess (01:00:00):
okay, so I know they're probably like if they were going
to do seasons they would drawit out.
We probably wouldn't see ituntil like the last season what
happened.
But even so, I still need toknow why he did what he did to
his wife.

Niq (01:00:11):
They could have did a season that, just went back and
told that story.

Jess (01:00:15):
And if that's the final season, I'm fine.
But like can we get four orfive Right Working up to
figuring?

Niq (01:00:22):
out what happened to his wife.
Why do I feel like I'm about tosend Stanley Tucci an email and
I'm sending that like I knowhim but I just feel like his
email is probably likestanleytucci at gmailcom.

Jess (01:00:32):
You're so silly, right?
Somebody give us more seasons.

Niq (01:00:39):
I need more.
I'm still hungry, but yeah,excellent show, very different,
I appreciate, refreshing, eventhough it did have its heavier
moments.
It had its light moments to me,but ultimately, like the story

(01:01:03):
and the questions and thetheoreticalness of it all
overshadowed like the harsh,like the harsh stuff for me
personally.
Yeah, agreed, I'm excited Metoo.
So where do you want to go next?
Like I feel like we really kindof started like with like a lot

(01:01:24):
of like heavy stuff and thenlately we've been veering back
over to the lighter stuff, likewell, this is like we've got
another light episode coming up.

Jess (01:01:39):
This was not a light've got another light episode coming
up.
This was not a light episode ora light show, but I'm down for
doing some light shows, likeRunning Point, which I really
enjoyed.
I did too.
I want to do a mix.
You know me, I want to do a mixof different stuff.
I enjoyed the Running Point.
It's very nostalgic, I think,because of the actors that are
in it.
I enjoyed the running pointit's very nostalgic for, I think
, because of the actors that arein it.

Niq (01:02:05):
Definitely want to get to some more complicated stuff like
White Lotus and kind of figurethose things out.
Oh yes, yes, white Lotus,season one we're going to start
with.
We're going to take that showseason by season because it is,
yeah, it's dense.
It is, it's dense but enjoyable.
So I'm really excited aboutsome of the things that we have
coming up.
Guys, we really hope that youenjoy talking with us.
We would love to hear from youlike, feel free to comment, like

(01:02:29):
send us emails.
If there's episodes that you,you know, topics that you want
us to go over, we can find ashow to correlate to the topic.
Or if you have a show you wantus to review, let us know.
If you feel like we've gottenit wrong, let us know if you
agree with us.
We want to hear your opinions,we want to hear what you think.
Yes, join us next time, guys.
See you on the next episode.

(01:02:50):
Bye.