August 26, 2025 • 40 mins
In this month's episode of the Next Level Running podcast we talk about the upcoming Cross Country season! Middle Schoolers, High Schoolers, Collegians, and your every day runners are gearing up for a Fall Cross Country season! It's the purest form of our sport and it's one of the most populated sports in America! This month we dive into all things Cross Country!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jacob Phillips (00:17):
This is the Next Level Running Podcast brought
to you by the expert coaches atRun Doyen, helping runners of
all levels trust their goals onrace day by matching you with
the perfect coach or trainingplan.
Hello, and welcome back to theNext Level Running Podcast.
I'm your host, Jacob Phillips,joined once again this month
with my co-host Sean Henning.
(00:39):
It's almost that time.
Yep.
The cross country season, it'sright around the corner.
And so coach Sean and I haveprobably been coaching for
nearly 40 years combined.
College cross-country.
And uh and so we just reallydive into the sport of
cross-country.
You know, the fall, uh, theweather starts changing, we're
not focused as much on thetrack, even though the world
(01:00):
championships are coming up.
Boy, we're getting ready forcross-country.
From middle school up topost-collegiate, uh, you know,
post-college running.
There is cross-country uharound the United States, and so
we're getting excited aboutthat.
So we jump into um what thatmight look like, things we're
excited for, things we're gonnatry differently maybe this year,
uh in our own team's training.
(01:21):
But uh cross country is one ofthose things that everyone can
do, and I think it's a great wayto change up the monotony from
either just training for roadraces or training for the track.
It's fun, it's tough, it's it'sas bad as natural as our score
can get.
But uh, before I jump into theconversation with Coach Sean and
I, I want to point you to theshow notes below.
As usual, I'll have our contactinformation.
(01:41):
If you need questions for us orfor the podcast, or just
wanting to get in touch with uhwith you know with a coach, uh
our contact info is there.
I also have uh the rundoin.comwebsite.
Look, if you're looking for aworld-class expert run coach to
help you uh crush your runninggoals, look no further than
rundoin.com.
(02:02):
Our expert run coaches can helptake your running to the next
level.
It has a unique matchingfeature that I think just fits
perfectly for what you'relooking for.
If you want a sciencedata-driven coach, we've got
that.
If you want more of anencouraging, inspirational,
motivational type of coach,we've got that.
And our matching feature willhelp match you with a coach that
(02:24):
fits what you're looking for.
If you're not quite ready foruh a full-time coach, check out
the Doyen Dashers on thatwebsite.
Uh, for $39 a month, you getaccess to our full training
library, you get access to aprogram written for you and for
your goal by one of ourworld-class expert run coaches
at Run Doyen.
Um, but you don't have to havethe accountability and you don't
(02:46):
have to have the same uhrigidity of uh just having a
full-time coach.
I did it uh a year ago.
I love that it kickstarted um abeautiful summer of running for
myself.
But uh but anyway, we'll haveall that down there as usual.
Check out those show notesbelow.
Uh we're talking cross countryrunning.
Coach Sean Henning and myself,and uh here we go.
(03:07):
Hey, what's up, man?
Hey Jacob, how are you?
I'm good, man.
It's about to uh we're about tobe launched into the fire, you
know.
Sean Henning (03:16):
Yes, sir.
Uh cross-country season is uponus.
Jacob Phillips (03:20):
You you uh you ready?
Sean Henning (03:23):
Yeah, I think so.
Um, you know, I definitely havenot felt the need to rush into
it and haven't been, you know,it's not like uh Christmas
morning where you can't wait,you can't sleep the night
before.
I've been I've been just fine,and I, you know, it'll get here
when it gets here.
So uh maybe that's just uh youknow 17 years of coaching, I
guess.
It's uh it's yeah, I know onceit starts it it hits hard.
(03:47):
So it's you know, enjoy thetime you have before before it
gets that way.
Jacob Phillips (03:50):
What when do y'all have kids moving on a
campus?
Sean Henning (03:53):
On Friday.
That's us too.
Okay, yep.
So Friday, first practice,Monday the 18th.
Jacob Phillips (04:00):
Yeah, that's us too.
And uh yeah, that's awesome.
And it's uh yeah, I get to thispoint in the in the summer, and
uh, you know, all the prep isdone, and it's just like I feel
like there's something missing.
I feel like I haven't donethis, or you know, and and and
probably it's all done, but youknow, just how it is.
And so trying to check thoselast boxes of gear and jerseys
(04:22):
and you know, did I reserve thisclassroom for our meeting?
Did I get this set up for ourteam team meals and all that
kind of good stuff?
But uh, but anyways, I think uhappropriate because we're gonna
talk about some cross countryuh today on the podcast and um
and could probably hiteverything from high school to
college to did you so I knowlike when you were running as a
(04:42):
post-collegiate, like did youever do any cross country?
Like was it uh are were you allroads, like like just just the
idea of the idea of doingcross-country after college, uh,
I did it, but it was it was itwas pretty rare.
But like did did you do anycross-country after college?
Sean Henning (04:59):
Yeah, you know I didn't.
I I really just did the did thewhole road thing for for a
couple years and uh and thenjust kind of got more into
coaching, I suppose.
But uh no, I I never did.
Um I think I did one I did onerace.
I did one race.
Um it was very average, and uhI just wasn't training for it,
(05:19):
so I I guess I don't know why Iexpected it to be good, but um
yeah, I think I was prettycontent.
I always loved the roads, Ialways loved just um I felt like
I was way less stressed outwhen it was just a a big old
road and lots of space and lotsof things can happen, and um, so
just kind of focused on that.
(05:39):
But uh yeah, I mean it's thereare a lot of there are a lot of
opportunities for people to runcross-country outside of
college.
You just have to look for them,and it depends on the area
you're in, of course.
Jacob Phillips (05:48):
So yeah.
Sean Henning (05:48):
Um, but uh yeah, did you do it do any of the USA
track and field or the you knowthe the cross-country um
national championships or clubsor anything like that?
Jacob Phillips (05:57):
You know, I did I did.
I I was not good at running ongrass.
I I'm still not good at runningon grass.
I prefer the road, I thinksmooth and flat.
And I I would prefer running onthe road over a dirt road, you
know, like honestly.
Like I I like to keep it onkeep it on the creep, man.
I like the concrete and uh butum I did US club championships I
(06:19):
can't remember what year wasit, but it was in it was in
Cleveland, Ohio, six inches ofsnow on the course, and um I had
run like right below fiveminute pace for a 10K uh at that
point, and I ran over sixminute pace at this so I flew
out to Cleveland, ran slowerthan I would finish easy runs
for the race, and uh and it waspretty pretty miserable.
(06:41):
And uh I think that was prettymuch done with the cross
country.
Every every summer um at thebeginning of August, our little
little is the wrong word.
We live in a major city,obviously in Dallas, but the the
r the Dallas Running Club hostsa uh like a mile and a half
relay.
So it's three by mile and ahalf, or no, no, no, two mile,
three by two mile relay.
And one year I convinced mysprints coach to run the middle
(07:04):
leg.
I said, Hey, I'm gonna run thefirst and the last as a workout.
And dude, it was a hundreddegrees and humid, and and uh
there's these pictures, and likemy my singlet is like stuck to
me, like it looks like a speedsuit because of all the sweat
and stuff.
It was miserable.
It was so I I yeah, I try toavoid cross-country um like the
plague, but I do think it'sreally good for you.
(07:26):
I think like uh I I I I wishthat more professionals ran
cross-country, I think it wouldbe really beneficial for them
and stuff.
But for my personal preference,yeah, no, thank you.
I like the roads.
Sean Henning (07:38):
So well, I think that's you know, bringing up the
professionals, I think that'sthat's uh a great segue to you
know what what you love aboutcross country, right?
Because I think withprofessionals, the reality is
the money is in running fast,right?
Hitting these numbers, hittingthese marks.
And so um with with things onthe roads, marathons, you know,
(08:00):
you're chasing times, times arevaluable on the track.
It's obviously a big time uhtime sport, uh minus the the
championship level races.
But but it's different incross-country, right?
Um, and so yeah, maybe you canstart this, but what do you what
(08:20):
do you love aboutcross-country, right?
Like what gets you excitedabout cross-country?
Jacob Phillips (08:24):
You know, I think if we're talking about
like from the level that you andI are with, with whether it's
college or you know, even highschool, you know, that's the
kids we recruit.
I like the team aspect of it,you know.
Um, but but I like like whenwe're talking about the
professionals, uh times go outthe window.
You're just racing, right?
And and if you look at some ofthese, you know, international
cross-country courses.
I mean, these these guys arerunning in mud, they're running
(08:45):
up the hilliest course you canimagine, you know, like and and
I think that's I think that'sreally cool, right?
Because at one point in time,that's what the sport was all
about.
You were just racing somebody,right?
Um, you know, for our level, II love I love the team aspect of
it.
You know, track tends to be alittle bit more selfish of a
sport, right?
You're pursuing your PR, you'repursuing your event, you know,
(09:07):
like, you know, maybe you were a10K guy and I was a 1500-meter
guy, right?
And and we might do a lot ofstuff together, but ultimately
your 10K race is your 10K race,and my 1500 meter race is my
1500 meter race.
So I really like the teamaspect of it.
Um and and I think that's whatgets me excited about our team
coming on to campus in a few fewdays, right?
(09:27):
It's the the idea of the teamcoming together.
You know, they've been probablyall training by themselves all
summer, and and man, we're gonnawe're gonna be a team and we're
gonna get to try to be the bestteam that we can possibly be.
And so that's that's what Ilove about it.
Um at our level, at theprofessional level, I love the
fact that it's just it's not atime trial.
You're going out and you'reracing and and and who cares
(09:49):
about the time, right?
And and if it's bad conditions,bring it, right?
Um, but what about you?
Sean Henning (09:55):
Yeah, on a similar note, I think cross country is
it's uh it's so uh primitive ina sense, right?
Like the running is uh it'sjust so kind of I mean, even
just where you do it, right?
You're you're running in a parkor you're running on you know
hills and you know, grass, dirt,all kinds of stuff, right?
(10:18):
You might have a a hay bale youhave to jump over depending on
the level you're doing it at.
You might have to run through amud puddle, it's all over the
place.
Um, and the reality of it isall you need is a starting line
and a finish line.
You don't need it, you don'tneed to know the distance, and
you really don't need to knowthe time, right?
And so it's it's just so basicand simple and right down to
(10:40):
being faster than somebody else.
And I love that piece of it.
I think it's kind of the greatequalizer, so to speak, right?
Um, oftentimes, and you and Ihave definitely seen this, you
you know, you can have peoplethat are just not as fast on the
track, or maybe even on theroad, but man, you get them on a
cross-country course, and it'slike it's things are totally
(11:01):
different, you know.
It's uh uh they can now kind ofgo head to head, toe to toe
with somebody that maybe on atrack is just significantly
better.
Yeah, and so I love how thatcan kind of equalize it.
Um, people that uh maybe don'tneed perfect conditions can
sometimes thrive incross-country, right?
Right, right.
It's not a big deal if there'sa hill, if the ground is uneven,
(11:24):
um, if the course is markedterribly, either way, they're
able to they can just uh competewell and stay focused and
dialed in.
So I love that about it.
Right.
Um, like you said, that the theteam piece is is so fun because
it really is about a group ofindividuals trying to score the
lowest they can score.
(11:45):
And uh it takes every singleperson to be a part of that,
right?
It's not just having a goodnumber one or number two, um,
but you need to have five thatscore well, and you also need to
have a sixth and a seventh thatcan displace potentially.
So there's so much value inhaving a complete team, and it's
it's fun to try to put thattogether, and it's fun to see a
(12:06):
team try to work towards thatgoal.
So that's probably what I likemost about it.
And um, yeah, and I would sayum the competitions are a lot of
fun too, right?
Yeah, um, we can we can talkabout that.
You know, it's it's I guessit's similar to a road race, I
suppose.
(12:26):
Um, but it's so much differentthan a track meet, right?
A track meet, um, you know, itcould be literally all day, it
could be an entire weekend.
Cross country meet, uh, you areyou've got a couple of races,
people are running all over theplace, right?
All you know, you see you seeyou see moms, you know, moms and
dads running all over the placeand uh hopefully not falling,
(12:51):
but sometimes they do, and theydon't care.
But if they get dirty, they runthrough a you know a lake or
whatever.
They're just they're justtrying to get to the next spot,
and yeah, um it's uh it's justutter chaos.
And um, but you're outside, youknow, and um you're just you're
you're hopefully in a uhbeautiful place, and um, and you
(13:13):
just know you've got you've gotto pay attention for for this
race and for that race, and thenthe day is done, and then you
can kind of talk about it.
And and I think you know,there's there's a lot happening
too.
You have multiple athletesracing all at once, so you've
you've got some good thingshappening, you probably have
some bad things happening too.
Um as a coach, you're justyou're constantly engaged
because you've got so manythings happening within that
(13:35):
30-minute span of time.
So, right.
Jacob Phillips (13:37):
Yeah, funny about the you're talking about
the parents.
I can I can tell this storybecause I won't say any names,
and it was at least 10 yearsago, but uh we were they had a
had a set of parents that wouldI remember on the first meet,
they were they were like, We'regonna follow you, you know,
because I know you know whereyou're going.
But the problem was is theirtheir their kid, and I'm not
saying if it was a boy or girl,their kid was a couple minutes
(13:59):
behind our top pack, you know,and I was like, Well, I'll be at
the next spot before beforeyour kid comes through, you
know.
But but they were chasing afterme, man, trying to trying to
follow because they knew whatspot, you know, apparently I
knew what spots to go to, youknow.
But um, but yeah, it'sinteresting.
I've fallen several times.
Like uh, you know, we we haveregionals up in Denver every so
(14:20):
often, and it's icy and snowy,and I don't, I'm just very I'm
clumsy as it is, and and I'veI've fallen myself, you know,
trying to go through.
Even last year at you know,when we were at nationals uh in
uh Sacramento, I mean it wasmuddy and slick and wet and and
like I was tiptoeing around outthere so I wouldn't I wouldn't
fall and hurt myself, you know.
But so I I talk about this withthe recruits a lot.
(14:42):
Um, you know, obviously 800,1500 meters, you know, you train
a little differently, but likeI say that like we don't train a
lot differently for the trackseason um that we do for for
cross country.
And and honestly, unless it's along road race, like I I think
cross-country training is justreally fundamental training.
And so, like, do you guys do alot different stuff, say in
(15:04):
track season versus cross, or isit pretty similar throughout
the year?
Sean Henning (15:08):
Yeah, uh it's it's very similar in particular with
um with your 5k and 10krunners, right?
Um, a lot of the energy systemsyou're focusing on are the
same.
I would say we we we probablyintegrate a little bit more
speed work um during trackseason, which I think is okay
because oftentimes your 5k and10k runners they may run a 1500,
(15:30):
right?
Um heck we've gosh, I mean wehad a girl qualify for nationals
in the 1500, and really uhhonestly her best events
probably the 10k.
Yeah, but she qualified in the1500, and so um, so I think you
just have athletes running avariety of distances, so there's
a little bit more speed workdone, but but yes, I'd say the
the majority of the training isvery similar.
(15:52):
Um, I would say the the terrainmight be different, right?
Um, so getting our athletescomfortable running on grass
versus road or track isimportant.
The reality is it is different,right?
Um running running on grass isnot the same as the road, and
running up a hill uh is not thesame as running on the flat.
(16:14):
And so those are the things wechange a little bit.
Uh, I think we try to get ongrass or at least dirt a little
bit more during cross season.
But I would say even then theenergy systems are primarily the
same.
We're still put placing a heavyemphasis on the uh aerobic
strength component in developingyou know lactate threshold,
(16:36):
doing a lot of that type ofwork.
And um, yeah, we do more hillrepeats, things like that in the
you know, in the cross-countryseason, but uh but yeah, that
that's something that could bedone in the track season as
well.
Yeah, it would be perfectlyfine to do it then as well.
Jacob Phillips (16:52):
So so do y'all do y'all do like some like
you'll do some very specifichill sessions, whether it's a
200-meter hill, 300 meter hill,400 meter hill, something like
that.
Sean Henning (17:01):
Yeah, so one of my favorite workouts, and um I
guess if I had to classify it aswhat it is supposed to be, what
it is intended to be, um, wouldwould be a uh it would be a a
lactate threshold type workout.
I think it can it I say whatit's intended to be because
(17:22):
sometimes the athletes can pushit and it ends up being not what
I want it to be, but right it'ssupposed to be um repeat 400s
and the and then the recovery isa jog back down.
It's a grass hill, yeah, um allgrass, which is amazing, it's
great.
Um, and the recovery is a jogback down, yeah.
But they're supposed to keep itat a controlled type of an
(17:43):
effort, right?
Um, really, I'm hoping they runabout a 5k type of an effort
and then they jog back down.
Obviously, gravity's helpingyou out significantly.
So they're not they're notgetting to that really that
anaerobic place because they'reonly running for a quarter mile,
right?
At that pace, which is for themshould be fine.
Yep.
Um, and then they'rerecovering, right?
And so we're trying to kind ofget more of a threshold stimulus
(18:07):
across 12 to maybe 14, I'll say10 to 14, 400 meter uh
intervals.
And so that's how we typicallydo it.
Um, I like doing those longerones.
Um, I've done different thingsover the years.
I've done one minute, 75seconds, I've done 30 seconds
with uh more middle distanceathletes, but I think in cross
country in particular, I lovebeing able to run a quarter mile
(18:32):
on grass and go uphill, butit's not it's not ridiculously
steep.
It's kind of a a nice gradualincline and um and it works
well.
So um that's probably one ofour bread and butter workouts.
We usually probably do it likethree times maybe in a season.
Jacob Phillips (18:48):
Yep.
So we we do the same exactsession, um 400 up, 400 down.
And I tell them like all thetime, like, yeah, there's a hill
component to it, but like yousaid, it's like a threshold
session, right?
Because you're you know, you'reraising the heart rate and then
it's it's just come down just alittle bit on the way down, and
then you're going again, right?
So it's almost like that like athreshold fartlic, right?
But you're yes, you have it,you have a hill element to it,
(19:08):
which I think is important.
Um, and we do the same thing.
We do our girls will do eightto twelve max, but if you do 12
of those, that's that's uh mymind just went blank.
That's a that's how many?
Oh my gosh, that's that's asimple miles, that'd be six
miles.
Yeah, six yeah, six milefartlic.
Our guys will do up to 16.
That's an eight mile fartlic,right?
That's a big day.
(19:28):
And so now that's our olderguys, higher mileage guys.
Um, most of our guys will do 12to 16 in that range, but it's
just yeah, exactly what youdescribed.
Ours isn't on grass.
It would be nice if it was.
It's on it's on the road.
But um but like I did that, Idid that workout this morning.
Like, so like that that's whatI I've been doing it once a week
for last month, just so I canremind myself what it feels like
(19:50):
when I'm telling the team, hey,this is what we're doing or
whatever.
Um but I I think like with thatwith that Hill session, like
you know, you talk about like,yeah, you could do that in the
track season too.
We came out, we came out of theindoor track season, and I was
uh especially on our on my men'steam side, and I was just very
I I didn't like our results.
And I said, you know what,we've got this five-week break
(20:11):
between indoors and outdoors.
We're going back tocross-country work and we're
gonna do the long aerobic stuff,we're gonna do the hills.
You know, you said you guys dothem three times, we do them
three to four times in the inthe fall.
And I said, we're gonna go backto the hill, we're gonna go
back to the long progression,we're gonna go back to the long
tempo type of work.
And we did that for four orfive weeks heading into the
(20:32):
outdoor track season, and likeevery guy on our team PR'd.
And and we had a guy that ran49 in the 400, 152 in the 800,
350 in the 1500, and then hewent 1450, I think, for the 5K.
So he PR'd in the 400 and hePR'd by like 40 seconds in the
5K.
(20:52):
So, like just by doing what Icall cross-country training,
right?
Uh it's not very specific, butit's very fundamental, it's very
foundational, it's really goodwork.
And obviously, you know, we weat some point we went away from
that, and he had some, we hadsome real, you know, did some
real speed work on the track andsome real fast stuff.
But but I think it's I thinkthe whether you're training for
(21:14):
a half marathon, uh, whetheryou're training for a marathon
later, like having across-country style segment,
maybe before you start that, Ithink it sets you up really,
really well.
I think it gets you get youreally, really strong.
But um, but I'm with you on thegoal.
Sean Henning (21:28):
I would say, yeah, well, let me let me uh add to
what you said.
I I think you know you saidit's it's more like
cross-country training.
I would honestly say we'rewe're just talking about aerobic
strength is really what we'retalking about.
And so for anybody that'slistening to this, really, I
think this is a a great reminderthat you can train, uh you can
(21:50):
train very specifically, and ofcourse there's value to that,
and there are many coaches thatthat do that more, and I'm not
saying that that's uhnecessarily wrong by any means,
but there are a lot of athletesthat have been successful
developing their aerobicstrength and making placing that
as the big focus in theirtraining, right?
Um, I think it makes peoplenervous when they uh um I mean
(22:14):
I've I'll admit I've hadclients, I think they sometimes
they get nervous when they'rethey're training for a mile or a
5k and they feel like ourtraining is more geared towards
a marathon.
And I'm just trying to remindthem, just trust me, we're
getting you strong.
This will carry, this willcarry across to these shorter
things.
It's not always about doingfast, fast, fast, fast anaerobic
(22:36):
things.
Yep, the strength is reallyvaluable, and it's also it's a
lot less taxi on your body.
Um, it takes a lot less time torecover, right?
And it'll give you more uhrange of motion in what you're
capable of, right?
If you really dive into justthe the whatever the mile
specific or whatever whatever itis training, you're kind of
(22:57):
limiting yourself, right?
Um it might work for thatevent, but you but you've kind
of put yourself in this tinylittle space of of what you can
do versus the strength work canreally carry, you know, to your
example about your your your guythat ran 400 meters all the way
all the way up to 5k, like hehad good range, right?
Right, and clear clearly, justyou know, hearing his PRs,
(23:18):
clearly he's a middle distancefocused guy, right?
But he's still able to run arespectable 5k time, right?
Um, and be a guy that maybecould be used in cross-country
if need be.
Right.
Um, and so he just get he justmade himself even more valuable
for your team, right?
Jacob Phillips (23:34):
Right, right.
And and and be able to, yeah,just to do do it all.
So, you know, I as we'retalking about this, I think 800
up to the marathon, you've gotto be aerobically good, you
know.
Like obviously there's somespread-trained 800-meter
runners, but um I would I wasgonna ask this and this might be
a training question.
This this might so ever everyyear I'm sure you did you ever
(23:56):
read the book uh Running withthe Buffaloes?
Absolutely, right?
So I read it every summer, andyou know, you know, in in and at
this point it's just like justbecause of tradition.
And and uh, but you know, MarkWetmore, the the famous coach
there in that book, you know,he's talking about like uh yeah,
every every year I'm trying toto add a new wrinkle, you know,
something I'm doing, I'm gonnado differently.
(24:17):
And like what what are yougonna do differently in terms of
like cross country training oror maybe you're you're you're
thinking of the full year oftraining.
What what's something new thatyou're gonna maybe try or or do
or implement this this year?
Sean Henning (24:32):
Yeah, man, I can't give away my secrets, Jacob.
I gotta race, I gotta race youlater in the fall.
Come on.
There's there are no secrets,man.
I'm just kidding.
I'm just yeah, that's totallytrue.
There are no secrets.
There's there's nothing newunder the sun.
It's uh it's all recycledstuff, packaged in a different
way.
Right.
Um, that's the reality of whatwe do.
But uh yeah, so uh gosh, butreally put me on the spot with
(24:56):
that one.
I'll say there's a couplethings we're doing differently.
Uh, one thing I'm doingdifferently, and and this is
just the rhythm of our training.
So we're we're very fortunateto have races every two weeks
this year.
It's never lined up that way.
This I think is the first yearI've ever had that.
And so we're actually gonna goonce we get to get into
September, we're gonna start togo off of a 14-day uh rhythm,
(25:21):
right?
So we're gonna do more of a uha 14-day uh training block,
which will be very uniquebecause it will actually
decrease the number of long runsonce we get into the kind of
the middle of September and on.
And so that's interesting,that's a new thing.
Um, but I believe the thereasons we're doing it make
sense, it's allowing us torecover a little bit more after
(25:43):
races.
Um, we're not having to forceit in there because that's when
we usually do it, and so we'vegot to make sure we get it done
then.
Um for for those listeners thatdon't know this with the NCAA,
you're limited to six days ofpractice a week.
So our day off is Sunday.
That's that's always our dayoff, just like Chick-fil-A,
Sunday off.
That's too um, so yeah, and sonow our athletes can maybe run
(26:07):
on their own if they want aneasy run, but I'm certainly not
gonna.
This is my this is how I do it.
I'm not saying if a coach doesit is it's wrong, but I'm not
gonna prescribe a long run onSunday, unsupervised, asking
them to somehow get it in thereon their own.
Go get your 18 miler and 14miler, whatever it might be.
I don't like that, it doesn'tsit well with me, so we don't do
(26:28):
that.
So I've got to find a way toget it in uh in another spot,
right?
And so so 14 days, uh, that'sgonna be unique, but I'm I'm
excited for the challenge.
Uh, we will continue on withdoing some double threshold
work.
I know we had a podcast wetalked about that, yeah.
Um, yeah, plus plug for ourpast past uh podcast if you want
to hear more about doublethresholds.
(26:50):
Uh, we talked about that and uhthe value, potentially the
value there.
So we're gonna continue thatwith some of our athletes, not
all of our athletes, only theones I think it would benefit
and they're ready for it.
Jacob Phillips (27:00):
Right.
Sean Henning (27:00):
Um, and then yeah, I I think uh personally I'm
going to control our efforts alittle bit more with our E.
What does easy mean?
Is it an easy, easy, all capseasy, or is it just an easy
capitalize the E easy?
So we're still putting thequality in there.
Um, we're gonna have a littlebit of both.
(27:22):
We're gonna have some dayswhere I just tell them, hey,
full recovery, full, full, fullrecovery.
That's it.
Get just get the time in onyour feet, and then we will have
some days where it's easy, butwe still want to recover with
benefit, as uh as I think the uhthe late great Joe V Hill would
would say recover with benefit,right?
(27:43):
Don't just waste your time outthere.
So those are some things thatwe'll be doing differently.
How about you guys?
Jacob Phillips (27:48):
Yeah, no, yeah, and we should chat about Joe,
obviously just recently passedaway, but um yeah, I think for
us, so I was looking at like umtwo things really.
One, like I was thinking aboutmy guys, and and we've typically
been a high mileage program, orwe've tried to be and run a lot
of miles, and and our schedulegets pretty dense.
(28:08):
Um, we typically are Monday,Wednesday, Friday, we're doing
like some speed development typestuff or or whatever, and then
a good longer on Saturday whenwe're not racing.
And you start looking at like,you know, man, if if if if
they're getting in a 20-mile dayon Monday, or you know, maybe
it's a 15 to 20 mile day onMonday with a double, and then
Wednesday they're getting inanother, you know, 12 to 17
(28:30):
miles with a double, and thenthey're doing some speed stuff
on Friday, and then we're goinglong, and our go our guys will
go, you know, anything from 12to 18 miles, kind of depending
on the guy.
We used to do the 20 milers,I'm not as big of a fan of those
anymore.
But um so I thought, man, likewe were coming back on Thursday
for some of these guys with likea 10 and 5 double, 10 in the
morning, five in the afternoon.
That's not really recovering,um, especially once we get into
(28:54):
school and we get into racingand stuff.
And so uh I think on Thursday,like we're gonna do um, I think
we're gonna split that into afive and five.
And so those, and some of thoseguys will do five and cross
training, right?
And so um we we haven't reallydone that.
It's been 10 and 5, 10 and 5,10 for as long as I can
remember.
And so um, so just kind ofmaking that more of a a true
recovery day.
(29:14):
We call it a recovery day.
Oh, yeah, just go run easy, butyou know, 15 miles and running
twice is is that truly recovery?
So that's one of the things I'mgonna do on the guy's side and
and and and really that and forthat practice, really focus on
stuff we're doing after the run,you know, whether that's good
stretching or or good core workor good mobility work, hurdle
work, whatever it might be, justto just to just hopefully
(29:34):
recover and get ready for thenext day.
That's one thing.
I think that the other thing,like um the the we have a lot of
new people coming in.
Like we have uh a lot offreshmen, uh men and women
coming in.
And I think I just want to bereally fundamentally sound,
right?
I don't want to do anythingthat's like um a lot of times as
coaches, we either get greedyor or we want to uh we want our
(29:58):
uh our creativity.
To flow out of us, and we dothat in our workouts, right?
And sometimes it just it'slike, yeah, on paper that looks
really cool, but that wasprobably overassigned or too
hard or or whatever.
And so I just want to stick tothe basics and just not skip
steps.
And um we we were on a flowtrack workout Wednesday a few
years ago, and it was a funworkout, and it was it was
(30:20):
really fast.
And and I remember kids willkids will come in the next
couple of years, be like, whenare we gonna do this workout?
And like you forget that likeevery guy that did that workout
was like a junior, senior, orfifth year guy, right?
And you're like, Oh yeah, we'regonna do this.
We always do this on thisweekend before regionals or
whatever.
And it's like only if you'reready for that, right?
And so um, so I think for me,it's like just you're talking
(30:42):
about this idea of like reallybeing focused on your efforts.
I want to be focused on notgetting ahead of myself and and
just being really fundamentallysound, doing the foundational
work and and hopefully settingus up for a full year of
running, like a good year ofrunning versus you know, we get
to October and we're friedbecause we we overdid it with
some you know fancy workout thatis really cool, right?
Sean Henning (31:03):
Um, so that that that's us well and you said
something uh I think is goodjust to um to highlight, you
know, being fundamentally sound.
Um and I think we we uh we maytalk about this in another
podcast, uh, so I don't want toI don't want to dive too much
into this, but I think it'simportant to focus on being
(31:23):
really good at the things you'redoing.
Um and and that includes basicwarm-ups, basic just basic
drills, being really good atthose things.
Otherwise, you're just you'rejust putting stuff in there to
put it in there, right?
So slowing down a little bit tomake sure it's done right.
Yeah, maybe you get less in,but I think the value is there
(31:46):
long term.
It's better to do it well thanto do it, and it's just done
really poorly.
So slowing down, I think isthat's another theme for me this
year, is just making sure thatwe do things correctly.
Um and uh as I mean, I'mtalking as basic as you can you
can even imagine, we're gonna bedoing that.
So yeah, I love that.
Jacob Phillips (32:05):
Right.
I I I think like uh, you know,we're it's an NFL preseason,
right?
It's going on and trainingcamps are going on.
And and I think about how thosecoaches like, man, like that's
what that's what when they getto that training camp, that's
what they can control, right?
And the practices are reallyplanned out and and really uh
not planned out from like uhmake it really complicated, but
like, man, we're gonna dopractice really well.
(32:26):
And I I that's what I want thisyear.
I just want to get back todoing practice really well and
and just building fitness andand and seeing kids get better,
you know, week to week, month tomonth, you know, and and
sometimes you might not see thatuntil the spring, right?
But um, but I think that's alesson that like whether it's a
high schooler that's listeningto this or or you know, you're
you're uh, you know, you'reyou're your road racer trying to
(32:48):
qualify for Boston, like if youjust do the things well enough
and you're just consistent withit, and like you know, you have
this time carved out in a day toto to do something, like do it
really well, right?
And use that time wisely.
Um, but uh but yeah, so I go goahead.
Sean Henning (33:04):
I was gonna say, I agree, and I think for any if
we have any uh Ron Doyen uhclients that are listening to
this, uh either ours or any anyof the other great Ron Doyen
coaches, uh just keep in mind,you know, if if your coach is
putting stuff down in in yourtraining, right?
Uh sometimes it's easy to glossover the things that seem
monotonous.
Okay, I gotta do this warm-upor this core work or whatever.
(33:27):
But but keep in mind that thoselittle things they add up over
time, and they actually arereally important.
And we understand that there'syou know, there's busyness that
happens, but those things areimportant and they they they
will make you better over time.
Um but like anything inrunning, it's just doing
something consistently for along period of time.
So um, yeah, those littlethings are valuable.
Jacob Phillips (33:48):
No doubt, man.
No doubt.
Well, so uh before we before weyou know jump off and stuff, uh
did you watch the USchampionships uh what was that a
couple weeks ago, last week,something like that?
Sean Henning (33:59):
Yeah, yeah.
I watched uh I'm trying tothink I didn't I don't know if I
watched much of it live, but Idefinitely watched all the all
the uh you know the distanceraces in particular.
I mean a lot of the races,sprinter sprints as well.
And um, yeah, there were somethere were some great races.
I mean the I guess the high Imean there's so many highlights,
(34:19):
but I think that probably thebiggest highlight is seeing a
high schooler finish second andrunning 142 in the 800.
Cooper from your backyard.
Jacob Phillips (34:26):
And dude, funny story about that.
Uh second and third place live,so third place finisher is my
neighbor, and second placefinisher lives about 15 minutes
down the road.
Sean Henning (34:36):
So is that where Cooper lives?
Jacob Phillips (34:38):
Yeah, so Cooper's about 15 minutes away
from us, and then um Bryce isBryce is close.
Yeah, and Bryce Bryce lives uhone street down when he's here.
I mean, he's obviouslytraveling the world, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
But he's uh he he owns a house.
Uh he's run with our guys a fewtimes, but um seems to be a
really solid guy.
But um, yeah, the highschooler, that's that's uh
(35:00):
that's it's an incredible.
Sean Henning (35:01):
Yeah, so if people don't know, the high schooler
ran one for a 16-year-old ran142 in the 800.
It's the number four time everin the US.
It's a world record for under18.
I think under 18.
Jacob Phillips (35:13):
Yeah, I think I think I think he like got like
three world records within thewithin the one race, you know.
Like, I don't know.
Sean Henning (35:20):
Yeah, crazy.
Incredible talent, um, very,very exciting.
Um, but yeah, the race, I mean,Donovan Brazier, let's not
forget about him.
Obviously, he had been injuredfor a few years, and so that was
a great comeback for him.
Yeah, um, you know, uh yeah,that was the high that was a
loaded race.
But um, but yeah, I mean acrossthe board, um yeah, uh gosh,
(35:42):
Grant Fisher made two teams inthe five and 10K, and um we're
gonna be well represented there.
Jacob Phillips (35:47):
And yeah, great teams, great teams.
Sean Henning (35:50):
Yeah, it'll be exciting to see how it goes come
September.
And um, you know, um as always,you know, if it feels like we
can't fill the stands at theseUS championships, unfortunately.
But uh I know people care, itjust seems we don't we don't it
seems like we don't get as manyactually out there, you know,
which is unfortunate.
But uh um but yeah, US distancerunning is is in a in a healthy
(36:15):
spot from a uh competitivestandpoint, you know.
Yes.
Um I think it's on par with anyother country in the world
right now.
And um it's an exciting time tobe a U.S.
distance runner for sure.
Jacob Phillips (36:27):
It is, it is, man.
It makes it makes it fun andmakes it fun to listen and learn
and see what they're doing.
And and what you find out thatthey're doing is a lot of a lot
of what everyone's doing, right?
Yes, yeah, there's nothing.
Nothing new under the sun.
That's right, no secrets.
But uh, well, hey man, I knowwe're fixing to get busy, and so
uh I'm excited about that.
I don't I don't know if we'llsee each other until we
hopefully both qualify fornationals, but uh you know
(36:50):
that's gonna be in Wisconsin,it's gonna be cold and uh
probably snowy, and that's whatwe face every year at regionals.
And when we go up to Colorado,we'll be going up to Colorado
again this year for regionals,and uh yeah, but um uh I'll do a
shout-out.
Sean Henning (37:03):
I'll do a quick shout-out.
I uh do a client shout-out.
You highlight one of yours,I'll highlight one of mine.
Yeah, I actually just spokewith him this morning.
Uh his name's Johnny, he's outin uh New York, New York City,
and he's uh he's uh I'm nottrying to put his age out there,
but let's just say he's nospring chicken.
Um but he uh he's running amile in a few weeks.
(37:25):
I'm I'm really excited for him.
He's he's put in some greatwork and he's he's got a busy
life, lots of traveling with hiswork.
And um, but yeah, he's runninga New York City uh road mile in
in Central Park, and so he'sbeen gearing up for this for a
while.
So, anyways, shout out to him.
I'm looking forward to seeinghow it goes and just appreciate
all his hard work.
Jacob Phillips (37:42):
No doubt, no doubt.
I've got uh Jenna and Evan, twoseparate clients, separate
parts of the country, butthey're both training for a
marathon.
And it's a it's it's basicallythe same weekend, different
marathon, but same weekend.
And and uh I I just there'ssomething about a client that
communicates and tells you howit goes and uploads their runs
(38:03):
and and communicates.
I just it makes it makes ourlives a lot easier and it makes
it more enjoyable.
I feel like I'm actually onthat journey with them versus
just assigning training andhoping it's getting done.
And and these are two clientsthat I know it's getting done, I
know it's getting done well.
I know it's I know it's ifthere's something that I didn't
communicate well, they'rethey're asking that question
because they're they're investedin their and they're both have
(38:24):
uh kids and spouses and busylives and and they're and
they're wanting to see how goodthey can be.
And that's I think that'sreally cool.
So um, so yeah, so Jenna and uhand um and Evan, they've been
like I said, they're gearing upfor a marathon.
And it's hard to train for amarathon in the summer, but uh
they're they're getting it done.
But uh well, cool.
Well, I'm excited.
I know we've got a kind of alittle bit of a plan of uh like
(38:45):
our next podcast or a couplepodcasts about what we're gonna
dive into.
So I'm pumped about that, andit'll be busy, but we'll get it
done and uh it should be fun andand hopefully um hopefully help
some people out there.
Sounds good.
Sean Henning (38:57):
Absolutely.
All right, man.
Well, hey, I'll uh uh we'll beseeing you soon.
Yeah, man.
See ya.
Bye-bye.
All right, take care.
Jacob Phillips (39:05):
And that does it for this month's episode of the
Next Level Running Podcast.
I want to thank my co-host Seanonce again for his time and
energy and knowledge on yeah,just all things running.
I really enjoyed theconversation.
Cross country is probably myfirst memory of running it.
And I loved running it inmiddle school, did it in high
school, did in college, and nowuh have an opportunity to coach
(39:27):
it.
And it's just a fun sport.
And so if you get a chance, uhgo take part in a cross country
race.
And uh if you want to if youwant to get the attempt being
tough, go take part in a crosscountry race.
But uh, we'll be back againnext month um with another new
episode uh of the next levelrunning podcast.
And so can't wait to be backthen.
(39:47):
And uh until next time, have agreat run.
Thank you for joining us hereon the next level running
podcast, your source fortraining advice from the expert
coaches at Rundoyan.
If you're ready to take yourtraining and racing to the next
level, head over to Rundoyan.comand get matched to your ideal
coach who will provide you withthe highly customized online
(40:08):
training you need for crushingyour goals on race day.
This is the Next Level Running Podcast brought
to you by the expert coaches atRun Doyen, helping runners of
all levels trust their goals onrace day by matching you with
the perfect coach or trainingplan.
Hello, and welcome back to theNext Level Running Podcast.
I'm your host, Jacob Phillips,joined once again this month
with my co-host Sean Henning.
(00:39):
It's almost that time.
Yep.
The cross country season, it'sright around the corner.
And so coach Sean and I haveprobably been coaching for
nearly 40 years combined.
College cross-country.
And uh and so we just reallydive into the sport of
cross-country.
You know, the fall, uh, theweather starts changing, we're
not focused as much on thetrack, even though the world
(01:00):
championships are coming up.
Boy, we're getting ready forcross-country.
From middle school up topost-collegiate, uh, you know,
post-college running.
There is cross-country uharound the United States, and so
we're getting excited aboutthat.
So we jump into um what thatmight look like, things we're
excited for, things we're gonnatry differently maybe this year,
uh in our own team's training.
(01:21):
But uh cross country is one ofthose things that everyone can
do, and I think it's a great wayto change up the monotony from
either just training for roadraces or training for the track.
It's fun, it's tough, it's it'sas bad as natural as our score
can get.
But uh, before I jump into theconversation with Coach Sean and
I, I want to point you to theshow notes below.
As usual, I'll have our contactinformation.
(01:41):
If you need questions for us orfor the podcast, or just
wanting to get in touch with uhwith you know with a coach, uh
our contact info is there.
I also have uh the rundoin.comwebsite.
Look, if you're looking for aworld-class expert run coach to
help you uh crush your runninggoals, look no further than
rundoin.com.
(02:02):
Our expert run coaches can helptake your running to the next
level.
It has a unique matchingfeature that I think just fits
perfectly for what you'relooking for.
If you want a sciencedata-driven coach, we've got
that.
If you want more of anencouraging, inspirational,
motivational type of coach,we've got that.
And our matching feature willhelp match you with a coach that
(02:24):
fits what you're looking for.
If you're not quite ready foruh a full-time coach, check out
the Doyen Dashers on thatwebsite.
Uh, for $39 a month, you getaccess to our full training
library, you get access to aprogram written for you and for
your goal by one of ourworld-class expert run coaches
at Run Doyen.
Um, but you don't have to havethe accountability and you don't
(02:46):
have to have the same uhrigidity of uh just having a
full-time coach.
I did it uh a year ago.
I love that it kickstarted um abeautiful summer of running for
myself.
But uh but anyway, we'll haveall that down there as usual.
Check out those show notesbelow.
Uh we're talking cross countryrunning.
Coach Sean Henning and myself,and uh here we go.
(03:07):
Hey, what's up, man?
Hey Jacob, how are you?
I'm good, man.
It's about to uh we're about tobe launched into the fire, you
know.
Sean Henning (03:16):
Yes, sir.
Uh cross-country season is uponus.
Jacob Phillips (03:20):
You you uh you ready?
Sean Henning (03:23):
Yeah, I think so.
Um, you know, I definitely havenot felt the need to rush into
it and haven't been, you know,it's not like uh Christmas
morning where you can't wait,you can't sleep the night
before.
I've been I've been just fine,and I, you know, it'll get here
when it gets here.
So uh maybe that's just uh youknow 17 years of coaching, I
guess.
It's uh it's yeah, I know onceit starts it it hits hard.
(03:47):
So it's you know, enjoy thetime you have before before it
gets that way.
Jacob Phillips (03:50):
What when do y'all have kids moving on a
campus?
Sean Henning (03:53):
On Friday.
That's us too.
Okay, yep.
So Friday, first practice,Monday the 18th.
Jacob Phillips (04:00):
Yeah, that's us too.
And uh yeah, that's awesome.
And it's uh yeah, I get to thispoint in the in the summer, and
uh, you know, all the prep isdone, and it's just like I feel
like there's something missing.
I feel like I haven't donethis, or you know, and and and
probably it's all done, but youknow, just how it is.
And so trying to check thoselast boxes of gear and jerseys
(04:22):
and you know, did I reserve thisclassroom for our meeting?
Did I get this set up for ourteam team meals and all that
kind of good stuff?
But uh, but anyways, I think uhappropriate because we're gonna
talk about some cross countryuh today on the podcast and um
and could probably hiteverything from high school to
college to did you so I knowlike when you were running as a
(04:42):
post-collegiate, like did youever do any cross country?
Like was it uh are were you allroads, like like just just the
idea of the idea of doingcross-country after college, uh,
I did it, but it was it was itwas pretty rare.
But like did did you do anycross-country after college?
Sean Henning (04:59):
Yeah, you know I didn't.
I I really just did the did thewhole road thing for for a
couple years and uh and thenjust kind of got more into
coaching, I suppose.
But uh no, I I never did.
Um I think I did one I did onerace.
I did one race.
Um it was very average, and uhI just wasn't training for it,
(05:19):
so I I guess I don't know why Iexpected it to be good, but um
yeah, I think I was prettycontent.
I always loved the roads, Ialways loved just um I felt like
I was way less stressed outwhen it was just a a big old
road and lots of space and lotsof things can happen, and um, so
just kind of focused on that.
(05:39):
But uh yeah, I mean it's thereare a lot of there are a lot of
opportunities for people to runcross-country outside of
college.
You just have to look for them,and it depends on the area
you're in, of course.
Jacob Phillips (05:48):
So yeah.
Sean Henning (05:48):
Um, but uh yeah, did you do it do any of the USA
track and field or the you knowthe the cross-country um
national championships or clubsor anything like that?
Jacob Phillips (05:57):
You know, I did I did.
I I was not good at running ongrass.
I I'm still not good at runningon grass.
I prefer the road, I thinksmooth and flat.
And I I would prefer running onthe road over a dirt road, you
know, like honestly.
Like I I like to keep it onkeep it on the creep, man.
I like the concrete and uh butum I did US club championships I
(06:19):
can't remember what year wasit, but it was in it was in
Cleveland, Ohio, six inches ofsnow on the course, and um I had
run like right below fiveminute pace for a 10K uh at that
point, and I ran over sixminute pace at this so I flew
out to Cleveland, ran slowerthan I would finish easy runs
for the race, and uh and it waspretty pretty miserable.
(06:41):
And uh I think that was prettymuch done with the cross
country.
Every every summer um at thebeginning of August, our little
little is the wrong word.
We live in a major city,obviously in Dallas, but the the
r the Dallas Running Club hostsa uh like a mile and a half
relay.
So it's three by mile and ahalf, or no, no, no, two mile,
three by two mile relay.
And one year I convinced mysprints coach to run the middle
(07:04):
leg.
I said, Hey, I'm gonna run thefirst and the last as a workout.
And dude, it was a hundreddegrees and humid, and and uh
there's these pictures, and likemy my singlet is like stuck to
me, like it looks like a speedsuit because of all the sweat
and stuff.
It was miserable.
It was so I I yeah, I try toavoid cross-country um like the
plague, but I do think it'sreally good for you.
(07:26):
I think like uh I I I I wishthat more professionals ran
cross-country, I think it wouldbe really beneficial for them
and stuff.
But for my personal preference,yeah, no, thank you.
I like the roads.
Sean Henning (07:38):
So well, I think that's you know, bringing up the
professionals, I think that'sthat's uh a great segue to you
know what what you love aboutcross country, right?
Because I think withprofessionals, the reality is
the money is in running fast,right?
Hitting these numbers, hittingthese marks.
And so um with with things onthe roads, marathons, you know,
(08:00):
you're chasing times, times arevaluable on the track.
It's obviously a big time uhtime sport, uh minus the the
championship level races.
But but it's different incross-country, right?
Um, and so yeah, maybe you canstart this, but what do you what
(08:20):
do you love aboutcross-country, right?
Like what gets you excitedabout cross-country?
Jacob Phillips (08:24):
You know, I think if we're talking about
like from the level that you andI are with, with whether it's
college or you know, even highschool, you know, that's the
kids we recruit.
I like the team aspect of it,you know.
Um, but but I like like whenwe're talking about the
professionals, uh times go outthe window.
You're just racing, right?
And and if you look at some ofthese, you know, international
cross-country courses.
I mean, these these guys arerunning in mud, they're running
(08:45):
up the hilliest course you canimagine, you know, like and and
I think that's I think that'sreally cool, right?
Because at one point in time,that's what the sport was all
about.
You were just racing somebody,right?
Um, you know, for our level, II love I love the team aspect of
it.
You know, track tends to be alittle bit more selfish of a
sport, right?
You're pursuing your PR, you'repursuing your event, you know,
(09:07):
like, you know, maybe you were a10K guy and I was a 1500-meter
guy, right?
And and we might do a lot ofstuff together, but ultimately
your 10K race is your 10K race,and my 1500 meter race is my
1500 meter race.
So I really like the teamaspect of it.
Um and and I think that's whatgets me excited about our team
coming on to campus in a few fewdays, right?
(09:27):
It's the the idea of the teamcoming together.
You know, they've been probablyall training by themselves all
summer, and and man, we're gonnawe're gonna be a team and we're
gonna get to try to be the bestteam that we can possibly be.
And so that's that's what Ilove about it.
Um at our level, at theprofessional level, I love the
fact that it's just it's not atime trial.
You're going out and you'reracing and and and who cares
(09:49):
about the time, right?
And and if it's bad conditions,bring it, right?
Um, but what about you?
Sean Henning (09:55):
Yeah, on a similar note, I think cross country is
it's uh it's so uh primitive ina sense, right?
Like the running is uh it'sjust so kind of I mean, even
just where you do it, right?
You're you're running in a parkor you're running on you know
hills and you know, grass, dirt,all kinds of stuff, right?
(10:18):
You might have a a hay bale youhave to jump over depending on
the level you're doing it at.
You might have to run through amud puddle, it's all over the
place.
Um, and the reality of it isall you need is a starting line
and a finish line.
You don't need it, you don'tneed to know the distance, and
you really don't need to knowthe time, right?
And so it's it's just so basicand simple and right down to
(10:40):
being faster than somebody else.
And I love that piece of it.
I think it's kind of the greatequalizer, so to speak, right?
Um, oftentimes, and you and Ihave definitely seen this, you
you know, you can have peoplethat are just not as fast on the
track, or maybe even on theroad, but man, you get them on a
cross-country course, and it'slike it's things are totally
(11:01):
different, you know.
It's uh uh they can now kind ofgo head to head, toe to toe
with somebody that maybe on atrack is just significantly
better.
Yeah, and so I love how thatcan kind of equalize it.
Um, people that uh maybe don'tneed perfect conditions can
sometimes thrive incross-country, right?
Right, right.
It's not a big deal if there'sa hill, if the ground is uneven,
(11:24):
um, if the course is markedterribly, either way, they're
able to they can just uh competewell and stay focused and
dialed in.
So I love that about it.
Right.
Um, like you said, that the theteam piece is is so fun because
it really is about a group ofindividuals trying to score the
lowest they can score.
(11:45):
And uh it takes every singleperson to be a part of that,
right?
It's not just having a goodnumber one or number two, um,
but you need to have five thatscore well, and you also need to
have a sixth and a seventh thatcan displace potentially.
So there's so much value inhaving a complete team, and it's
it's fun to try to put thattogether, and it's fun to see a
(12:06):
team try to work towards thatgoal.
So that's probably what I likemost about it.
And um, yeah, and I would sayum the competitions are a lot of
fun too, right?
Yeah, um, we can we can talkabout that.
You know, it's it's I guessit's similar to a road race, I
suppose.
(12:26):
Um, but it's so much differentthan a track meet, right?
A track meet, um, you know, itcould be literally all day, it
could be an entire weekend.
Cross country meet, uh, you areyou've got a couple of races,
people are running all over theplace, right?
All you know, you see you seeyou see moms, you know, moms and
dads running all over the placeand uh hopefully not falling,
(12:51):
but sometimes they do, and theydon't care.
But if they get dirty, they runthrough a you know a lake or
whatever.
They're just they're justtrying to get to the next spot,
and yeah, um it's uh it's justutter chaos.
And um, but you're outside, youknow, and um you're just you're
you're hopefully in a uhbeautiful place, and um, and you
(13:13):
just know you've got you've gotto pay attention for for this
race and for that race, and thenthe day is done, and then you
can kind of talk about it.
And and I think you know,there's there's a lot happening
too.
You have multiple athletesracing all at once, so you've
you've got some good thingshappening, you probably have
some bad things happening too.
Um as a coach, you're justyou're constantly engaged
because you've got so manythings happening within that
(13:35):
30-minute span of time.
So, right.
Jacob Phillips (13:37):
Yeah, funny about the you're talking about
the parents.
I can I can tell this storybecause I won't say any names,
and it was at least 10 yearsago, but uh we were they had a
had a set of parents that wouldI remember on the first meet,
they were they were like, We'regonna follow you, you know,
because I know you know whereyou're going.
But the problem was is theirtheir their kid, and I'm not
saying if it was a boy or girl,their kid was a couple minutes
(13:59):
behind our top pack, you know,and I was like, Well, I'll be at
the next spot before beforeyour kid comes through, you
know.
But but they were chasing afterme, man, trying to trying to
follow because they knew whatspot, you know, apparently I
knew what spots to go to, youknow.
But um, but yeah, it'sinteresting.
I've fallen several times.
Like uh, you know, we we haveregionals up in Denver every so
(14:20):
often, and it's icy and snowy,and I don't, I'm just very I'm
clumsy as it is, and and I'veI've fallen myself, you know,
trying to go through.
Even last year at you know,when we were at nationals uh in
uh Sacramento, I mean it wasmuddy and slick and wet and and
like I was tiptoeing around outthere so I wouldn't I wouldn't
fall and hurt myself, you know.
But so I I talk about this withthe recruits a lot.
(14:42):
Um, you know, obviously 800,1500 meters, you know, you train
a little differently, but likeI say that like we don't train a
lot differently for the trackseason um that we do for for
cross country.
And and honestly, unless it's along road race, like I I think
cross-country training is justreally fundamental training.
And so, like, do you guys do alot different stuff, say in
(15:04):
track season versus cross, or isit pretty similar throughout
the year?
Sean Henning (15:08):
Yeah, uh it's it's very similar in particular with
um with your 5k and 10krunners, right?
Um, a lot of the energy systemsyou're focusing on are the
same.
I would say we we we probablyintegrate a little bit more
speed work um during trackseason, which I think is okay
because oftentimes your 5k and10k runners they may run a 1500,
(15:30):
right?
Um heck we've gosh, I mean wehad a girl qualify for nationals
in the 1500, and really uhhonestly her best events
probably the 10k.
Yeah, but she qualified in the1500, and so um, so I think you
just have athletes running avariety of distances, so there's
a little bit more speed workdone, but but yes, I'd say the
the majority of the training isvery similar.
(15:52):
Um, I would say the the terrainmight be different, right?
Um, so getting our athletescomfortable running on grass
versus road or track isimportant.
The reality is it is different,right?
Um running running on grass isnot the same as the road, and
running up a hill uh is not thesame as running on the flat.
(16:14):
And so those are the things wechange a little bit.
Uh, I think we try to get ongrass or at least dirt a little
bit more during cross season.
But I would say even then theenergy systems are primarily the
same.
We're still put placing a heavyemphasis on the uh aerobic
strength component in developingyou know lactate threshold,
(16:36):
doing a lot of that type ofwork.
And um, yeah, we do more hillrepeats, things like that in the
you know, in the cross-countryseason, but uh but yeah, that
that's something that could bedone in the track season as
well.
Yeah, it would be perfectlyfine to do it then as well.
Jacob Phillips (16:52):
So so do y'all do y'all do like some like
you'll do some very specifichill sessions, whether it's a
200-meter hill, 300 meter hill,400 meter hill, something like
that.
Sean Henning (17:01):
Yeah, so one of my favorite workouts, and um I
guess if I had to classify it aswhat it is supposed to be, what
it is intended to be, um, wouldwould be a uh it would be a a
lactate threshold type workout.
I think it can it I say whatit's intended to be because
(17:22):
sometimes the athletes can pushit and it ends up being not what
I want it to be, but right it'ssupposed to be um repeat 400s
and the and then the recovery isa jog back down.
It's a grass hill, yeah, um allgrass, which is amazing, it's
great.
Um, and the recovery is a jogback down, yeah.
But they're supposed to keep itat a controlled type of an
(17:43):
effort, right?
Um, really, I'm hoping they runabout a 5k type of an effort
and then they jog back down.
Obviously, gravity's helpingyou out significantly.
So they're not they're notgetting to that really that
anaerobic place because they'reonly running for a quarter mile,
right?
At that pace, which is for themshould be fine.
Yep.
Um, and then they'rerecovering, right?
And so we're trying to kind ofget more of a threshold stimulus
(18:07):
across 12 to maybe 14, I'll say10 to 14, 400 meter uh
intervals.
And so that's how we typicallydo it.
Um, I like doing those longerones.
Um, I've done different thingsover the years.
I've done one minute, 75seconds, I've done 30 seconds
with uh more middle distanceathletes, but I think in cross
country in particular, I lovebeing able to run a quarter mile
(18:32):
on grass and go uphill, butit's not it's not ridiculously
steep.
It's kind of a a nice gradualincline and um and it works
well.
So um that's probably one ofour bread and butter workouts.
We usually probably do it likethree times maybe in a season.
Jacob Phillips (18:48):
Yep.
So we we do the same exactsession, um 400 up, 400 down.
And I tell them like all thetime, like, yeah, there's a hill
component to it, but like yousaid, it's like a threshold
session, right?
Because you're you know, you'reraising the heart rate and then
it's it's just come down just alittle bit on the way down, and
then you're going again, right?
So it's almost like that like athreshold fartlic, right?
But you're yes, you have it,you have a hill element to it,
(19:08):
which I think is important.
Um, and we do the same thing.
We do our girls will do eightto twelve max, but if you do 12
of those, that's that's uh mymind just went blank.
That's a that's how many?
Oh my gosh, that's that's asimple miles, that'd be six
miles.
Yeah, six yeah, six milefartlic.
Our guys will do up to 16.
That's an eight mile fartlic,right?
That's a big day.
(19:28):
And so now that's our olderguys, higher mileage guys.
Um, most of our guys will do 12to 16 in that range, but it's
just yeah, exactly what youdescribed.
Ours isn't on grass.
It would be nice if it was.
It's on it's on the road.
But um but like I did that, Idid that workout this morning.
Like, so like that that's whatI I've been doing it once a week
for last month, just so I canremind myself what it feels like
(19:50):
when I'm telling the team, hey,this is what we're doing or
whatever.
Um but I I think like with thatwith that Hill session, like
you know, you talk about like,yeah, you could do that in the
track season too.
We came out, we came out of theindoor track season, and I was
uh especially on our on my men'steam side, and I was just very
I I didn't like our results.
And I said, you know what,we've got this five-week break
(20:11):
between indoors and outdoors.
We're going back tocross-country work and we're
gonna do the long aerobic stuff,we're gonna do the hills.
You know, you said you guys dothem three times, we do them
three to four times in the inthe fall.
And I said, we're gonna go backto the hill, we're gonna go
back to the long progression,we're gonna go back to the long
tempo type of work.
And we did that for four orfive weeks heading into the
(20:32):
outdoor track season, and likeevery guy on our team PR'd.
And and we had a guy that ran49 in the 400, 152 in the 800,
350 in the 1500, and then hewent 1450, I think, for the 5K.
So he PR'd in the 400 and hePR'd by like 40 seconds in the
5K.
(20:52):
So, like just by doing what Icall cross-country training,
right?
Uh it's not very specific, butit's very fundamental, it's very
foundational, it's really goodwork.
And obviously, you know, we weat some point we went away from
that, and he had some, we hadsome real, you know, did some
real speed work on the track andsome real fast stuff.
But but I think it's I thinkthe whether you're training for
(21:14):
a half marathon, uh, whetheryou're training for a marathon
later, like having across-country style segment,
maybe before you start that, Ithink it sets you up really,
really well.
I think it gets you get youreally, really strong.
But um, but I'm with you on thegoal.
Sean Henning (21:28):
I would say, yeah, well, let me let me uh add to
what you said.
I I think you know you saidit's it's more like
cross-country training.
I would honestly say we'rewe're just talking about aerobic
strength is really what we'retalking about.
And so for anybody that'slistening to this, really, I
think this is a a great reminderthat you can train, uh you can
(21:50):
train very specifically, and ofcourse there's value to that,
and there are many coaches thatthat do that more, and I'm not
saying that that's uhnecessarily wrong by any means,
but there are a lot of athletesthat have been successful
developing their aerobicstrength and making placing that
as the big focus in theirtraining, right?
Um, I think it makes peoplenervous when they uh um I mean
(22:14):
I've I'll admit I've hadclients, I think they sometimes
they get nervous when they'rethey're training for a mile or a
5k and they feel like ourtraining is more geared towards
a marathon.
And I'm just trying to remindthem, just trust me, we're
getting you strong.
This will carry, this willcarry across to these shorter
things.
It's not always about doingfast, fast, fast, fast anaerobic
(22:36):
things.
Yep, the strength is reallyvaluable, and it's also it's a
lot less taxi on your body.
Um, it takes a lot less time torecover, right?
And it'll give you more uhrange of motion in what you're
capable of, right?
If you really dive into justthe the whatever the mile
specific or whatever whatever itis training, you're kind of
(22:57):
limiting yourself, right?
Um it might work for thatevent, but you but you've kind
of put yourself in this tinylittle space of of what you can
do versus the strength work canreally carry, you know, to your
example about your your your guythat ran 400 meters all the way
all the way up to 5k, like hehad good range, right?
Right, and clear clearly, justyou know, hearing his PRs,
(23:18):
clearly he's a middle distancefocused guy, right?
But he's still able to run arespectable 5k time, right?
Um, and be a guy that maybecould be used in cross-country
if need be.
Right.
Um, and so he just get he justmade himself even more valuable
for your team, right?
Jacob Phillips (23:34):
Right, right.
And and and be able to, yeah,just to do do it all.
So, you know, I as we'retalking about this, I think 800
up to the marathon, you've gotto be aerobically good, you
know.
Like obviously there's somespread-trained 800-meter
runners, but um I would I wasgonna ask this and this might be
a training question.
This this might so ever everyyear I'm sure you did you ever
(23:56):
read the book uh Running withthe Buffaloes?
Absolutely, right?
So I read it every summer, andyou know, you know, in in and at
this point it's just like justbecause of tradition.
And and uh, but you know, MarkWetmore, the the famous coach
there in that book, you know,he's talking about like uh yeah,
every every year I'm trying toto add a new wrinkle, you know,
something I'm doing, I'm gonnado differently.
(24:17):
And like what what are yougonna do differently in terms of
like cross country training oror maybe you're you're you're
thinking of the full year oftraining.
What what's something new thatyou're gonna maybe try or or do
or implement this this year?
Sean Henning (24:32):
Yeah, man, I can't give away my secrets, Jacob.
I gotta race, I gotta race youlater in the fall.
Come on.
There's there are no secrets,man.
I'm just kidding.
I'm just yeah, that's totallytrue.
There are no secrets.
There's there's nothing newunder the sun.
It's uh it's all recycledstuff, packaged in a different
way.
Right.
Um, that's the reality of whatwe do.
But uh yeah, so uh gosh, butreally put me on the spot with
(24:56):
that one.
I'll say there's a couplethings we're doing differently.
Uh, one thing I'm doingdifferently, and and this is
just the rhythm of our training.
So we're we're very fortunateto have races every two weeks
this year.
It's never lined up that way.
This I think is the first yearI've ever had that.
And so we're actually gonna goonce we get to get into
September, we're gonna start togo off of a 14-day uh rhythm,
(25:21):
right?
So we're gonna do more of a uha 14-day uh training block,
which will be very uniquebecause it will actually
decrease the number of long runsonce we get into the kind of
the middle of September and on.
And so that's interesting,that's a new thing.
Um, but I believe the thereasons we're doing it make
sense, it's allowing us torecover a little bit more after
(25:43):
races.
Um, we're not having to forceit in there because that's when
we usually do it, and so we'vegot to make sure we get it done
then.
Um for for those listeners thatdon't know this with the NCAA,
you're limited to six days ofpractice a week.
So our day off is Sunday.
That's that's always our dayoff, just like Chick-fil-A,
Sunday off.
That's too um, so yeah, and sonow our athletes can maybe run
(26:07):
on their own if they want aneasy run, but I'm certainly not
gonna.
This is my this is how I do it.
I'm not saying if a coach doesit is it's wrong, but I'm not
gonna prescribe a long run onSunday, unsupervised, asking
them to somehow get it in thereon their own.
Go get your 18 miler and 14miler, whatever it might be.
I don't like that, it doesn'tsit well with me, so we don't do
(26:28):
that.
So I've got to find a way toget it in uh in another spot,
right?
And so so 14 days, uh, that'sgonna be unique, but I'm I'm
excited for the challenge.
Uh, we will continue on withdoing some double threshold
work.
I know we had a podcast wetalked about that, yeah.
Um, yeah, plus plug for ourpast past uh podcast if you want
to hear more about doublethresholds.
(26:50):
Uh, we talked about that and uhthe value, potentially the
value there.
So we're gonna continue thatwith some of our athletes, not
all of our athletes, only theones I think it would benefit
and they're ready for it.
Jacob Phillips (27:00):
Right.
Sean Henning (27:00):
Um, and then yeah, I I think uh personally I'm
going to control our efforts alittle bit more with our E.
What does easy mean?
Is it an easy, easy, all capseasy, or is it just an easy
capitalize the E easy?
So we're still putting thequality in there.
Um, we're gonna have a littlebit of both.
(27:22):
We're gonna have some dayswhere I just tell them, hey,
full recovery, full, full, fullrecovery.
That's it.
Get just get the time in onyour feet, and then we will have
some days where it's easy, butwe still want to recover with
benefit, as uh as I think the uhthe late great Joe V Hill would
would say recover with benefit,right?
(27:43):
Don't just waste your time outthere.
So those are some things thatwe'll be doing differently.
How about you guys?
Jacob Phillips (27:48):
Yeah, no, yeah, and we should chat about Joe,
obviously just recently passedaway, but um yeah, I think for
us, so I was looking at like umtwo things really.
One, like I was thinking aboutmy guys, and and we've typically
been a high mileage program, orwe've tried to be and run a lot
of miles, and and our schedulegets pretty dense.
(28:08):
Um, we typically are Monday,Wednesday, Friday, we're doing
like some speed development typestuff or or whatever, and then
a good longer on Saturday whenwe're not racing.
And you start looking at like,you know, man, if if if if
they're getting in a 20-mile dayon Monday, or you know, maybe
it's a 15 to 20 mile day onMonday with a double, and then
Wednesday they're getting inanother, you know, 12 to 17
(28:30):
miles with a double, and thenthey're doing some speed stuff
on Friday, and then we're goinglong, and our go our guys will
go, you know, anything from 12to 18 miles, kind of depending
on the guy.
We used to do the 20 milers,I'm not as big of a fan of those
anymore.
But um so I thought, man, likewe were coming back on Thursday
for some of these guys with likea 10 and 5 double, 10 in the
morning, five in the afternoon.
That's not really recovering,um, especially once we get into
(28:54):
school and we get into racingand stuff.
And so uh I think on Thursday,like we're gonna do um, I think
we're gonna split that into afive and five.
And so those, and some of thoseguys will do five and cross
training, right?
And so um we we haven't reallydone that.
It's been 10 and 5, 10 and 5,10 for as long as I can
remember.
And so um, so just kind ofmaking that more of a a true
recovery day.
(29:14):
We call it a recovery day.
Oh, yeah, just go run easy, butyou know, 15 miles and running
twice is is that truly recovery?
So that's one of the things I'mgonna do on the guy's side and
and and and really that and forthat practice, really focus on
stuff we're doing after the run,you know, whether that's good
stretching or or good core workor good mobility work, hurdle
work, whatever it might be, justto just to just hopefully
(29:34):
recover and get ready for thenext day.
That's one thing.
I think that the other thing,like um the the we have a lot of
new people coming in.
Like we have uh a lot offreshmen, uh men and women
coming in.
And I think I just want to bereally fundamentally sound,
right?
I don't want to do anythingthat's like um a lot of times as
coaches, we either get greedyor or we want to uh we want our
(29:58):
uh our creativity.
To flow out of us, and we dothat in our workouts, right?
And sometimes it just it'slike, yeah, on paper that looks
really cool, but that wasprobably overassigned or too
hard or or whatever.
And so I just want to stick tothe basics and just not skip
steps.
And um we we were on a flowtrack workout Wednesday a few
years ago, and it was a funworkout, and it was it was
(30:20):
really fast.
And and I remember kids willkids will come in the next
couple of years, be like, whenare we gonna do this workout?
And like you forget that likeevery guy that did that workout
was like a junior, senior, orfifth year guy, right?
And you're like, Oh yeah, we'regonna do this.
We always do this on thisweekend before regionals or
whatever.
And it's like only if you'reready for that, right?
And so um, so I think for me,it's like just you're talking
(30:42):
about this idea of like reallybeing focused on your efforts.
I want to be focused on notgetting ahead of myself and and
just being really fundamentallysound, doing the foundational
work and and hopefully settingus up for a full year of
running, like a good year ofrunning versus you know, we get
to October and we're friedbecause we we overdid it with
some you know fancy workout thatis really cool, right?
Sean Henning (31:03):
Um, so that that that's us well and you said
something uh I think is goodjust to um to highlight, you
know, being fundamentally sound.
Um and I think we we uh we maytalk about this in another
podcast, uh, so I don't want toI don't want to dive too much
into this, but I think it'simportant to focus on being
(31:23):
really good at the things you'redoing.
Um and and that includes basicwarm-ups, basic just basic
drills, being really good atthose things.
Otherwise, you're just you'rejust putting stuff in there to
put it in there, right?
So slowing down a little bit tomake sure it's done right.
Yeah, maybe you get less in,but I think the value is there
(31:46):
long term.
It's better to do it well thanto do it, and it's just done
really poorly.
So slowing down, I think isthat's another theme for me this
year, is just making sure thatwe do things correctly.
Um and uh as I mean, I'mtalking as basic as you can you
can even imagine, we're gonna bedoing that.
So yeah, I love that.
Jacob Phillips (32:05):
Right.
I I I think like uh, you know,we're it's an NFL preseason,
right?
It's going on and trainingcamps are going on.
And and I think about how thosecoaches like, man, like that's
what that's what when they getto that training camp, that's
what they can control, right?
And the practices are reallyplanned out and and really uh
not planned out from like uhmake it really complicated, but
like, man, we're gonna dopractice really well.
(32:26):
And I I that's what I want thisyear.
I just want to get back todoing practice really well and
and just building fitness andand and seeing kids get better,
you know, week to week, month tomonth, you know, and and
sometimes you might not see thatuntil the spring, right?
But um, but I think that's alesson that like whether it's a
high schooler that's listeningto this or or you know, you're
you're uh, you know, you'reyou're your road racer trying to
(32:48):
qualify for Boston, like if youjust do the things well enough
and you're just consistent withit, and like you know, you have
this time carved out in a day toto to do something, like do it
really well, right?
And use that time wisely.
Um, but uh but yeah, so I go goahead.
Sean Henning (33:04):
I was gonna say, I agree, and I think for any if
we have any uh Ron Doyen uhclients that are listening to
this, uh either ours or any anyof the other great Ron Doyen
coaches, uh just keep in mind,you know, if if your coach is
putting stuff down in in yourtraining, right?
Uh sometimes it's easy to glossover the things that seem
monotonous.
Okay, I gotta do this warm-upor this core work or whatever.
(33:27):
But but keep in mind that thoselittle things they add up over
time, and they actually arereally important.
And we understand that there'syou know, there's busyness that
happens, but those things areimportant and they they they
will make you better over time.
Um but like anything inrunning, it's just doing
something consistently for along period of time.
So um, yeah, those littlethings are valuable.
Jacob Phillips (33:48):
No doubt, man.
No doubt.
Well, so uh before we before weyou know jump off and stuff, uh
did you watch the USchampionships uh what was that a
couple weeks ago, last week,something like that?
Sean Henning (33:59):
Yeah, yeah.
I watched uh I'm trying tothink I didn't I don't know if I
watched much of it live, but Idefinitely watched all the all
the uh you know the distanceraces in particular.
I mean a lot of the races,sprinter sprints as well.
And um, yeah, there were somethere were some great races.
I mean the I guess the high Imean there's so many highlights,
(34:19):
but I think that probably thebiggest highlight is seeing a
high schooler finish second andrunning 142 in the 800.
Cooper from your backyard.
Jacob Phillips (34:26):
And dude, funny story about that.
Uh second and third place live,so third place finisher is my
neighbor, and second placefinisher lives about 15 minutes
down the road.
Sean Henning (34:36):
So is that where Cooper lives?
Jacob Phillips (34:38):
Yeah, so Cooper's about 15 minutes away
from us, and then um Bryce isBryce is close.
Yeah, and Bryce Bryce lives uhone street down when he's here.
I mean, he's obviouslytraveling the world, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
But he's uh he he owns a house.
Uh he's run with our guys a fewtimes, but um seems to be a
really solid guy.
But um, yeah, the highschooler, that's that's uh
(35:00):
that's it's an incredible.
Sean Henning (35:01):
Yeah, so if people don't know, the high schooler
ran one for a 16-year-old ran142 in the 800.
It's the number four time everin the US.
It's a world record for under18.
I think under 18.
Jacob Phillips (35:13):
Yeah, I think I think I think he like got like
three world records within thewithin the one race, you know.
Like, I don't know.
Sean Henning (35:20):
Yeah, crazy.
Incredible talent, um, very,very exciting.
Um, but yeah, the race, I mean,Donovan Brazier, let's not
forget about him.
Obviously, he had been injuredfor a few years, and so that was
a great comeback for him.
Yeah, um, you know, uh yeah,that was the high that was a
loaded race.
But um, but yeah, I mean acrossthe board, um yeah, uh gosh,
(35:42):
Grant Fisher made two teams inthe five and 10K, and um we're
gonna be well represented there.
Jacob Phillips (35:47):
And yeah, great teams, great teams.
Sean Henning (35:50):
Yeah, it'll be exciting to see how it goes come
September.
And um, you know, um as always,you know, if it feels like we
can't fill the stands at theseUS championships, unfortunately.
But uh I know people care, itjust seems we don't we don't it
seems like we don't get as manyactually out there, you know,
which is unfortunate.
But uh um but yeah, US distancerunning is is in a in a healthy
(36:15):
spot from a uh competitivestandpoint, you know.
Yes.
Um I think it's on par with anyother country in the world
right now.
And um it's an exciting time tobe a U.S.
distance runner for sure.
Jacob Phillips (36:27):
It is, it is, man.
It makes it makes it fun andmakes it fun to listen and learn
and see what they're doing.
And and what you find out thatthey're doing is a lot of a lot
of what everyone's doing, right?
Yes, yeah, there's nothing.
Nothing new under the sun.
That's right, no secrets.
But uh, well, hey man, I knowwe're fixing to get busy, and so
uh I'm excited about that.
I don't I don't know if we'llsee each other until we
hopefully both qualify fornationals, but uh you know
(36:50):
that's gonna be in Wisconsin,it's gonna be cold and uh
probably snowy, and that's whatwe face every year at regionals.
And when we go up to Colorado,we'll be going up to Colorado
again this year for regionals,and uh yeah, but um uh I'll do a
shout-out.
Sean Henning (37:03):
I'll do a quick shout-out.
I uh do a client shout-out.
You highlight one of yours,I'll highlight one of mine.
Yeah, I actually just spokewith him this morning.
Uh his name's Johnny, he's outin uh New York, New York City,
and he's uh he's uh I'm nottrying to put his age out there,
but let's just say he's nospring chicken.
Um but he uh he's running amile in a few weeks.
(37:25):
I'm I'm really excited for him.
He's he's put in some greatwork and he's he's got a busy
life, lots of traveling with hiswork.
And um, but yeah, he's runninga New York City uh road mile in
in Central Park, and so he'sbeen gearing up for this for a
while.
So, anyways, shout out to him.
I'm looking forward to seeinghow it goes and just appreciate
all his hard work.
Jacob Phillips (37:42):
No doubt, no doubt.
I've got uh Jenna and Evan, twoseparate clients, separate
parts of the country, butthey're both training for a
marathon.
And it's a it's it's basicallythe same weekend, different
marathon, but same weekend.
And and uh I I just there'ssomething about a client that
communicates and tells you howit goes and uploads their runs
(38:03):
and and communicates.
I just it makes it makes ourlives a lot easier and it makes
it more enjoyable.
I feel like I'm actually onthat journey with them versus
just assigning training andhoping it's getting done.
And and these are two clientsthat I know it's getting done, I
know it's getting done well.
I know it's I know it's ifthere's something that I didn't
communicate well, they'rethey're asking that question
because they're they're investedin their and they're both have
(38:24):
uh kids and spouses and busylives and and they're and
they're wanting to see how goodthey can be.
And that's I think that'sreally cool.
So um, so yeah, so Jenna and uhand um and Evan, they've been
like I said, they're gearing upfor a marathon.
And it's hard to train for amarathon in the summer, but uh
they're they're getting it done.
But uh well, cool.
Well, I'm excited.
I know we've got a kind of alittle bit of a plan of uh like
(38:45):
our next podcast or a couplepodcasts about what we're gonna
dive into.
So I'm pumped about that, andit'll be busy, but we'll get it
done and uh it should be fun andand hopefully um hopefully help
some people out there.
Sounds good.
Sean Henning (38:57):
Absolutely.
All right, man.
Well, hey, I'll uh uh we'll beseeing you soon.
Yeah, man.
See ya.
Bye-bye.
All right, take care.
Jacob Phillips (39:05):
And that does it for this month's episode of the
Next Level Running Podcast.
I want to thank my co-host Seanonce again for his time and
energy and knowledge on yeah,just all things running.
I really enjoyed theconversation.
Cross country is probably myfirst memory of running it.
And I loved running it inmiddle school, did it in high
school, did in college, and nowuh have an opportunity to coach
(39:27):
it.
And it's just a fun sport.
And so if you get a chance, uhgo take part in a cross country
race.
And uh if you want to if youwant to get the attempt being
tough, go take part in a crosscountry race.
But uh, we'll be back againnext month um with another new
episode uh of the next levelrunning podcast.
And so can't wait to be backthen.
(39:47):
And uh until next time, have agreat run.
Thank you for joining us hereon the next level running
podcast, your source fortraining advice from the expert
coaches at Rundoyan.
If you're ready to take yourtraining and racing to the next
level, head over to Rundoyan.comand get matched to your ideal
coach who will provide you withthe highly customized online
(40:08):
training you need for crushingyour goals on race day.
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