May 9, 2025 • 21 mins
School districts and elected leaders across the US have been working to restrict phones in classrooms. Melissa Henson, the VP of Parents Television and Media Council (PTC), joins us to discuss state legislative efforts receiving bipartisan support. What is the biggest pushback? What can parents do?
KEEPING KIDS SAFE ONLINE
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast.
We are a nonprofit passionateabout keeping kids safe online.
We're learning together how tonavigate tech, culture and faith
with our kids.
I am joined today by MelissaHenson and I want her to tell
you about her organization andwho she is, and the work that
(00:24):
they are doing to help kids.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hi, thanks so much for letting me join you today.
Just to give you a little bitof background about the Parents
Television Media Council.
We've been around for more than20 years now.
We started out as the ParentsTelevision Council back in the
day when most kids were watchingprimetime television between
the hours of 8 and 10 pm, and sowe were concerned about the
(00:47):
quality of the content that wasavailable to families and to
children during those hours.
But of course, the medialandscape has changed pretty
substantially in the last 20-soyears much more rapidly in the
last 5 to 10 years and kidsreally aren't watching
television anymore.
They're not on TV, you know,between the hours of eight and
10, more often than not they'reon their phones and they're on
(01:10):
social media or they're playingvideo games.
And so we've changed themission of the organization to
reflect the changing trends andmedia consumption patterns, and
so what we focus now on iscreating a safe media culture
for kids and families morebroadly, and what that means is
you know, what kinds of contentare kids able to access on their
(01:33):
phones?
What are the dangers thatthey're being exposed to online?
What can we do to advocate forphone-free schools?
What can we do to advocate forbetter parental controls on a
multitude of digital devices andso forth.
So that's where we're at rightnow I come at this issue.
I have a 16-year-old son, but Ihad a real heart for this issue
(01:55):
even before becoming a mother,because I worked with young
children when I was in college.
I'd'd babysit and sometimes I'dwork in the aftercare programs
at local schools to take care ofkids until their parents could
pick them up.
And you know I was shocked fromtime to time with you know,
what I would hear out of themouths of these first and second
(02:18):
grade kids, what they wereseeing, what they were allowed
to watch at home, what they werewatching unsupervised, and
sometimes what they were evenwatching with their parents
present alarmed me.
You know that parents weren'treally thinking through what
kinds of influences they wereallowing their kids to be
exposed to in the media thatthey were consuming, and so I
(02:39):
had a real heart for this issue,as I say, even before I became
a mom.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Well, and that was more than 16 years ago and we
know times have changed, so whatthey're seeing is way even more
risque now, I would say, thanit was back then.
And I think you're right.
I think we've all been sodesensitized to everything that
we watch because we're intakingit so much that we don't even
(03:03):
realize when our kids aresitting next to us and we've got
some graphic stuff going on onthe TV.
We kind of need to pause andtake note.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, and more than that.
I think maybe there's a littleelement of pride, a pridefulness
, involved there.
You know it's a problem for thekid down the street because you
know mom's a hot mess, but I'msuch a good mom it's not going
to be a problem for my kid.
So I think we just need alittle bit of a reality check
and say it's not good for kidsgenerally.
(03:31):
No matter how great you are asa parent, if you're allowing
these influences, if you'reallowing these messages to get
inside your child's heart,inside your child's mind, it's
not going to end well, it's notgoing to result in fruitful life
.
It's going to do more harm thangood in the long run, allowing
your kids to have theseexposures to adult content.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, we have a saying at Next Talk.
It's protect your heart andmind.
And we have a duty to protecttheir heart and mind, and then
we have a duty to teach them, tobe an advocate for themselves,
to protect their heart and mind.
And that does fall on us andwe've all missed it at some
point or another, and I thinkyou're absolutely right.
That pride is we also say lookin the mirror.
(04:15):
Often here at Next Talk, likewhat are we doing wrong?
Why are we shutting downcommunication or maybe not
creating enough boundaries forthem?
And so I think that is justsuch good points for us all to
take note and kind of check ourown heart and our own pride.
I wanted to have you on todaybecause oftentimes I get
contacted by parents and theysay how can we ban phones in the
(04:36):
classroom?
Like I just don't think it'sproductive.
I would love to see phonesbeing banned and I'm like, okay,
I'm for it, but that is notreally like we don't have the
staffing to get behind thatinitiative and lead that.
But you guys are kind of in,you're in this space, and so now
I can point parents to you as aresource.
(04:56):
But will you tell me what'shappening in this space, because
, it's my understanding, I don'tknow that there's a federal law
, but a lot is being done at thestate level.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, you're right, there is no federal law at this
point and I'm not sure at thispoint that that would be the
right way to go.
Anyhow, it seems like this is anissue that is working its way
through school districts.
It's working its way throughstate level legislation and I
think you know you probablylearned, like I did, in civics
(05:29):
class that the states are thelaboratories of democracy be a
pretty good system for figuringout what works, what doesn't
work, and other states can seewhat's been attempted, what's
failed, what's been successfuland sort of adopt best practices
.
So that does seem to me to be agood strategy.
It's letting the states handleit and figure out for themselves
(05:52):
what makes sense for familiesin our state.
But most states seem to begravitating toward a plan or a
program that looks likesomething like using a yonder
pouch or some sort of lockablepouch.
Kids deposit their phones inthese pouches when they arrive
at school beginning of the dayand they're not able to access
them until they go home at theend of the day.
(06:13):
Some schools allow them to gettheir phones during breaks
between classes, some schoolsare allowing them during lunch,
but the ones that seem to beexperiencing the highest success
seem to be the ones thatrequire the phones to be locked
away all school day.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Well, just from a personal, like walking through
it with my kid I think one ofthe most detrimental things is
when we say we don't have phones, we don't allow phones in
school, but we actually allow.
It's like it's like classroomby classroom, and I think that
just needs to be communicated wehave it's a classroom by
classroom conversation, but youcan't say we're a phone free
(06:52):
school when you're not a phonefree school, because then I,
what I have found as a parent,is that then when I have
boundaries in place at home,they become blurry too, because
it's like, well, it doesn'tmatter at school, so yeah, okay,
but your phone is not allowedin your, in your room at night,
like that's just a boundary forus, you know, at home.
And so I think it takes all ofus working together to mean what
(07:14):
we say, and say what we meanand follow what we're actually
saying to kids, like I thinkthat's really an important
message here.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Absolutely, absolutely, and I definitely
think this is going to be, it'sgoing to have to be a
collaborative and cooperativeeffort, and parents and teachers
and administrators all need toget on the same page, because
what we have seen is thatschools that often say you know,
we're a phone-free school, butthey're not.
The administration isn'tenforcing it.
(07:42):
That puts a burden on theteachers to enforce it, and then
it becomes a, you know, abattle of wills between the
teacher and the students, andthat's not fair for the teachers
and it's disruptive to thelearning environment.
So they need to, teachers needto have the backing of the
administration.
But more importantly again, itoften comes back to the parents,
because what we are seeing isthat resistance to prohibiting
(08:05):
phones in the classroom is oftennot coming from the students.
The resistance is coming fromthe parents, who you know.
Maybe this was exacerbatedduring COVID, but they have this
expectation of being able tocommunicate with their child
throughout the day.
And you know there arelegitimate safety concerns.
There are legitimate concernsabout, you know, what happens if
(08:27):
there's a school shootersituation.
How do I get in touch with mychild?
And I don't want to diminishthose concerns at all, but there
are procedures in place.
There are, you know, safetyprotocols.
There are ways that the schoolsare they have systems in place
to deal with these emergencysituations increase the danger
(08:58):
for the child, because if thechild's trying to calm mom down
on the phone rather thanlistening to the first
responders that are right thereon the ground saying here's
where you need to go to be safe,and that's going to create
complexity and and possibly makea bad situation worse.
So I I want to be sensitive tothose concerns, of course, um,
but also as parents, we alsoneed to learn to let go a little
bit.
And you know, if we're going totrust our kids to be in a
(09:22):
public school or in a privateschool, we also need to trust
the schools and theadministrators to do what they
need to do.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
I think that's a good point.
I think you know parents too.
One thing that I tell parentswhen I present is I think one
thing that we could do right nowevery parent in every home that
would help teachers is if wewould just not allow phones in
bedrooms, because I think a lotof what's happening with the
disruption too I mean, yes,there are disruption within the
(09:51):
classroom for sure, because kidsare recording each other,
they're recording their teacher.
You know bullying has happenedbecause of that.
We we know that there are manyissues with that.
One of the problems, too, isthat kids are up scrolling all
night long, they're not gettingenough sleep and then they're
falling asleep in class.
There's major behavior problems, and so, again it is.
It is schools and parentsworking together on this issue.
(10:12):
I hate that we've come to likepointing fingers and everybody's
like saying it's the otherperson's fault.
This has taken us all by.
I mean, we've all beenblindsided by the digital issues
with kids, and so I think if wecould just come together and
like parents do their part,teachers do their part, schools
do their part, man, we couldcreate such an amazing
(10:35):
educational space for our kidsto really get back to what's
important in learning andgrowing their mind and their
creativity.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, and you know, I would also say, in addition to
being on the same page with theteachers and administrators, I
think it's also important for usto be on the same page with
other parents as well.
So you know, it's easier to sayno to giving your child a
smartphone if their friend'sparents are also saying no to
(11:01):
giving their child a smartphone.
But when all their friends havesmartphones, you don't want your
kid to feel like odd man out.
You know they don't want tofeel excluded, and so oftentimes
that's what causes parents tocave to the pressure to give
their kids smartphones, evenwhen their best judgment tells
them no.
This is the wrong thing to do.
So, you know, if you have cancommunicate with the parents of
(11:26):
your kids' closest friends andsay look, we have made a
decision as a family that we aregoing to hold off on getting a
smartphone for our child untilthey're 13, 14, 15, 16, whatever
you decide, I would reallyappreciate it, you know, if you
would consider delaying gettingyour child a smartphone too.
I think it's in your child'sbest interest.
(11:46):
We believe it's in our child'sbest interest.
It'll be easier for them toresist that peer pressure if
they're in it together and ifyou can get several parents on
the same page with that, that'sgoing to make it a lot easier
for your child to not feelexcluded, to not feel like
they're the oddball becausethey're not on a smartphone.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Well, and I do think the tide is shifting a little
bit.
You know, you've got JonathanHyatt coming out with his
Ancients Generation.
It has gotten a lot ofpublicity, which is amazing, and
I think, too, kids are startingto understand the effects of it
, like they're getting educatedLike I don't want this in my
life right now, and I thinkthat's amazing.
When we can educate our kids onthe dangers of what's happening
(12:30):
online and the mental health,like we're seeing depression
more than doubled sinceInstagram came on the scene
major depression in kids and soif we can educate our kids about
that, then they will make evensmart choices for themselves,
and then it's not just parentand child butting heads saying
no, no, no, you can't have this.
It's literally like gettingeducated together and making a
(12:53):
better family decision ondelaying the phone, and you know
we advocate that.
It's a skill that we need toteach.
It's just like driving a car,but we definitely need to delay
until our kids are ready for theresponsibility.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Right, right, absolutely, absolutely correct.
And that's a great way tophrase it, because what we know
is that you know that thatprefrontal cortex of your brain
that's responsible for judgmentand impulse control, that isn't
fully developed until you're inyour early 20s sort of provoked
(13:27):
by somebody online, they're notusing that prefrontal cortex and
saying you know what?
I don't need to respond to thistaunt.
Or if I respond to this, itmight escalate.
Or if they're gettingsolicitous emails from what
appears to be an attractivefemale saying, hey, send me some
(13:47):
private pictures of yourself.
That prefrontal cortex islacking and they're not going to
have the judgment to say whatcould potentially happen down
the road if I do this thing.
So that's that.
You're absolutely right that weneed to delay.
We need to educate and trainalong the way too, because kids
are not thinking about thefuture.
They're, they're, they'reliving in the present moment and
they're reacting in the presentmoment.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
So if we want to know what ourstate is doing to ban cell
phones, where would be a goodplace to get educated about that
?
What's happening in ourspecific state with this
initiative?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
released last summer.
It's in the parent resourcessection of the website and it's
available as a PDF.
It's called Smartphones in theClassroom what States Are Doing
to Confront these DigitalDistractions.
And we've got there a resourcethat shows, state by state,
what's been happeninglegislatively which states have
implemented bans, which ones areconsidering bans.
That map has probably evenchanged in the last several
months because we know, forexample, that New York is
(14:55):
looking at considering astatewide ban.
I believe New York City schoolshave already implemented a ban.
I think California is lookingclosely at a statewide ban as
well.
So that map has probablychanged since we released the
report.
But we do go through state bystate what's been happening and
in some states where therehaven't been statewide bans,
(15:17):
sometimes the largest schooldistricts within the states have
already implemented bans.
But this does seem to be a trendthat is gaining momentum and
more and more states, I think,are going to be adopting these
policies because it makes sense.
The teachers want to see thishappen, administrators want to
see this happen, social sciencewants to see this happen.
More and more parents arewanting to see this happen
(15:39):
because I think they're seeingthe negative outcomes in the
lives of their own children.
So I think support for this isgaining momentum and I think
we'll see more and more statesadopting policies.
But if your state has not takenany steps to implement a
statewide ban, we also have apolicy guide at the end of that
report steps that you can taketo get a school faux man
(16:03):
implemented.
You know this is an area whereit's going to require being
involved in PTA and going totalk to school board meetings
and really putting some pressureon the administrator and school
at the district level theschool administrators to get
(16:23):
these policies implemented.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Well, I know in my own life I have seen some
amazing teachers retire and walkaway from the teaching
profession because, I mean, it'sjust kids are out of control,
and that breaks my heart,because we have these people who
have dedicated their lives toteaching our kids and they're
saying there's a problem here,something's wrong, and so I
(16:47):
don't know the whole solution,but I know we have to fix it and
I think we need to take littlesteps and as much as what we can
do to work towards the goal offiguring this out together.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I think that's extremely important and I think
you know the work begins at home.
It really does.
You know we can't have, youknow, no holds barred when it
comes to kids and screens whenthey're at home and then expect
them to abide by restrictionswhen they go to school.
(17:22):
So we need to be accountableourselves as parents.
We need to hold the line.
We need to set down some groundrules and enforce them, and
then we need to work within ourcommunities and try to get other
parents to cooperate and be onthe same page, and then school
level and so on.
I think there is cause for hopein that.
(17:44):
I have seen articles saying thatGen Z, for example, have
already declared that they'renot going to get tablets for
their kids because they seethese little three-year-old
zombies that are scrolling oniPads all the time, and they've
seen how phone addiction isaffecting older siblings or
their parents.
I've seen some heartbreakingstatistics about kids who feel
(18:06):
ignored or neglected by theirparents because their parents
are constantly scrolling.
So we need to look at ourselvesfirst, look at what we can fix
within our own home and our ownfamilies, and then we start to
look outward.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Absolutely.
I love that you say that,because you know some people are
just like pointing their fingerat school districts and it
really is a home issue, Likewe've got to start it in the
home.
And you're speaking my languagehere because this is, this is
next talk.
You know, um dealing with thisat home and and I would just say
out there, my daughter is thesame way.
(18:40):
She's like my kid's never goingto have a phone.
You know, like um, and and yougave me a phone too fast and we
talk about that sometimes.
But I would say to parents likeme who has an older kid our
generation of kids really werean experiment and we need to
learn from it.
And if you have a teenager,still engage in the conversation
(19:04):
, because I think it's soimportant that you say I just
didn't know, I didn't know theeffects, and now I'm concerned
about you because you are alwayson your phone or whatever.
You don't have to just come outswinging and screaming at your
kid.
You're addicted to your phone.
Get off your phone.
That's not what this is about.
This is about having a heart toheart and what you said at the
very beginning of this podcast,like put aside your pride, admit
(19:27):
where we went wrong and have aconversation with your kid.
You know, I didn't talk to youabout pornography.
I didn't talk to you aboutviolence.
That you would see.
I didn't talk to you about allof this stuff and that is on me.
I am so sorry.
Can we talk about it now?
Because I see thedesensitization that is
happening, and so I would justencourage you.
It's like never too late.
You know, hopefully the nextgeneration, they're going to do
(19:48):
better than we did, they'regoing to know more than we did,
but it's never too late to starttalking to your kid and having
a heart to heart and creatingthis conversation at home.
Absolutely Well put, Thank you.
Thank you for all the work thatyou're doing here and thank you
for putting this informationtogether so we can see what's
happening state by state andproviding a policy packet.
(20:10):
If we feel like this is theline of work that we want to do
and we're passionate about it,Parents, I encourage you to do
it.
I think we're all been calledin different ways to step up and
voice our concerns here, so Iwanted to give you a place that
you could go and an organizationthat is helping in this space,
and, Melissa, I just thank youfor all the work you're doing.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Well, thank you, and thank you for helping to amplify
this message and get the wordout, and hopefully we'll see
good things happening all acrossthis country.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Is there anything else you want to tell our
listeners?
We're mostly parents, so youcan just I think you've spoken a
lot to us I'm walking awaysaying, okay, I need some gut
checks, I need to make sure thatmy pride is in check, and I'm
looking in the mirror and doingall these things.
But is there anything else youwould like to say to parents?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah Well, yeah, parents often get beat up on too
over this thing, and I think wealso need to give ourselves a
little bit of grace, because weare up against a multi-billion
dollar industry here.
It's manipulated us all intobelieving that we need to.
For our kids to be successfulin the world, they need to be on
these devices at an early ageso that they can be familiar
(21:21):
with technology.
So give ourselves a little bitof grace too.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I think that's such a word, and it's a good ending.
Thank you so much, melissa, forbeing here.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Next Talk is a 501c3 nonprofit keeping kids safe
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To support our work, make adonation at nexttalkorg.
Next Talk resources are notintended to replace the advice
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You are advised to consult aqualified expert for your
(21:54):
personal.
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast.
We are a nonprofit passionateabout keeping kids safe online.
We're learning together how tonavigate tech, culture and faith
with our kids.
I am joined today by MelissaHenson and I want her to tell
you about her organization andwho she is, and the work that
(00:24):
they are doing to help kids.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hi, thanks so much for letting me join you today.
Just to give you a little bitof background about the Parents
Television Media Council.
We've been around for more than20 years now.
We started out as the ParentsTelevision Council back in the
day when most kids were watchingprimetime television between
the hours of 8 and 10 pm, and sowe were concerned about the
(00:47):
quality of the content that wasavailable to families and to
children during those hours.
But of course, the medialandscape has changed pretty
substantially in the last 20-soyears much more rapidly in the
last 5 to 10 years and kidsreally aren't watching
television anymore.
They're not on TV, you know,between the hours of eight and
10, more often than not they'reon their phones and they're on
(01:10):
social media or they're playingvideo games.
And so we've changed themission of the organization to
reflect the changing trends andmedia consumption patterns, and
so what we focus now on iscreating a safe media culture
for kids and families morebroadly, and what that means is
you know, what kinds of contentare kids able to access on their
(01:33):
phones?
What are the dangers thatthey're being exposed to online?
What can we do to advocate forphone-free schools?
What can we do to advocate forbetter parental controls on a
multitude of digital devices andso forth.
So that's where we're at rightnow I come at this issue.
I have a 16-year-old son, but Ihad a real heart for this issue
(01:55):
even before becoming a mother,because I worked with young
children when I was in college.
I'd'd babysit and sometimes I'dwork in the aftercare programs
at local schools to take care ofkids until their parents could
pick them up.
And you know I was shocked fromtime to time with you know,
what I would hear out of themouths of these first and second
(02:18):
grade kids, what they wereseeing, what they were allowed
to watch at home, what they werewatching unsupervised, and
sometimes what they were evenwatching with their parents
present alarmed me.
You know that parents weren'treally thinking through what
kinds of influences they wereallowing their kids to be
exposed to in the media thatthey were consuming, and so I
(02:39):
had a real heart for this issue,as I say, even before I became
a mom.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Well, and that was more than 16 years ago and we
know times have changed, so whatthey're seeing is way even more
risque now, I would say, thanit was back then.
And I think you're right.
I think we've all been sodesensitized to everything that
we watch because we're intakingit so much that we don't even
(03:03):
realize when our kids aresitting next to us and we've got
some graphic stuff going on onthe TV.
We kind of need to pause andtake note.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, and more than that.
I think maybe there's a littleelement of pride, a pridefulness
, involved there.
You know it's a problem for thekid down the street because you
know mom's a hot mess, but I'msuch a good mom it's not going
to be a problem for my kid.
So I think we just need alittle bit of a reality check
and say it's not good for kidsgenerally.
(03:31):
No matter how great you are asa parent, if you're allowing
these influences, if you'reallowing these messages to get
inside your child's heart,inside your child's mind, it's
not going to end well, it's notgoing to result in fruitful life
.
It's going to do more harm thangood in the long run, allowing
your kids to have theseexposures to adult content.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, we have a saying at Next Talk.
It's protect your heart andmind.
And we have a duty to protecttheir heart and mind, and then
we have a duty to teach them, tobe an advocate for themselves,
to protect their heart and mind.
And that does fall on us andwe've all missed it at some
point or another, and I thinkyou're absolutely right.
That pride is we also say lookin the mirror.
(04:15):
Often here at Next Talk, likewhat are we doing wrong?
Why are we shutting downcommunication or maybe not
creating enough boundaries forthem?
And so I think that is justsuch good points for us all to
take note and kind of check ourown heart and our own pride.
I wanted to have you on todaybecause oftentimes I get
contacted by parents and theysay how can we ban phones in the
(04:36):
classroom?
Like I just don't think it'sproductive.
I would love to see phonesbeing banned and I'm like, okay,
I'm for it, but that is notreally like we don't have the
staffing to get behind thatinitiative and lead that.
But you guys are kind of in,you're in this space, and so now
I can point parents to you as aresource.
(04:56):
But will you tell me what'shappening in this space, because
, it's my understanding, I don'tknow that there's a federal law
, but a lot is being done at thestate level.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, you're right, there is no federal law at this
point and I'm not sure at thispoint that that would be the
right way to go.
Anyhow, it seems like this is anissue that is working its way
through school districts.
It's working its way throughstate level legislation and I
think you know you probablylearned, like I did, in civics
(05:29):
class that the states are thelaboratories of democracy be a
pretty good system for figuringout what works, what doesn't
work, and other states can seewhat's been attempted, what's
failed, what's been successfuland sort of adopt best practices
.
So that does seem to me to be agood strategy.
It's letting the states handleit and figure out for themselves
(05:52):
what makes sense for familiesin our state.
But most states seem to begravitating toward a plan or a
program that looks likesomething like using a yonder
pouch or some sort of lockablepouch.
Kids deposit their phones inthese pouches when they arrive
at school beginning of the dayand they're not able to access
them until they go home at theend of the day.
(06:13):
Some schools allow them to gettheir phones during breaks
between classes, some schoolsare allowing them during lunch,
but the ones that seem to beexperiencing the highest success
seem to be the ones thatrequire the phones to be locked
away all school day.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Well, just from a personal, like walking through
it with my kid I think one ofthe most detrimental things is
when we say we don't have phones, we don't allow phones in
school, but we actually allow.
It's like it's like classroomby classroom, and I think that
just needs to be communicated wehave it's a classroom by
classroom conversation, but youcan't say we're a phone free
(06:52):
school when you're not a phonefree school, because then I,
what I have found as a parent,is that then when I have
boundaries in place at home,they become blurry too, because
it's like, well, it doesn'tmatter at school, so yeah, okay,
but your phone is not allowedin your, in your room at night,
like that's just a boundary forus, you know, at home.
And so I think it takes all ofus working together to mean what
(07:14):
we say, and say what we meanand follow what we're actually
saying to kids, like I thinkthat's really an important
message here.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Absolutely, absolutely, and I definitely
think this is going to be, it'sgoing to have to be a
collaborative and cooperativeeffort, and parents and teachers
and administrators all need toget on the same page, because
what we have seen is thatschools that often say you know,
we're a phone-free school, butthey're not.
The administration isn'tenforcing it.
(07:42):
That puts a burden on theteachers to enforce it, and then
it becomes a, you know, abattle of wills between the
teacher and the students, andthat's not fair for the teachers
and it's disruptive to thelearning environment.
So they need to, teachers needto have the backing of the
administration.
But more importantly again, itoften comes back to the parents,
because what we are seeing isthat resistance to prohibiting
(08:05):
phones in the classroom is oftennot coming from the students.
The resistance is coming fromthe parents, who you know.
Maybe this was exacerbatedduring COVID, but they have this
expectation of being able tocommunicate with their child
throughout the day.
And you know there arelegitimate safety concerns.
There are legitimate concernsabout, you know, what happens if
(08:27):
there's a school shootersituation.
How do I get in touch with mychild?
And I don't want to diminishthose concerns at all, but there
are procedures in place.
There are, you know, safetyprotocols.
There are ways that the schoolsare they have systems in place
to deal with these emergencysituations increase the danger
(08:58):
for the child, because if thechild's trying to calm mom down
on the phone rather thanlistening to the first
responders that are right thereon the ground saying here's
where you need to go to be safe,and that's going to create
complexity and and possibly makea bad situation worse.
So I I want to be sensitive tothose concerns, of course, um,
but also as parents, we alsoneed to learn to let go a little
bit.
And you know, if we're going totrust our kids to be in a
(09:22):
public school or in a privateschool, we also need to trust
the schools and theadministrators to do what they
need to do.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
I think that's a good point.
I think you know parents too.
One thing that I tell parentswhen I present is I think one
thing that we could do right nowevery parent in every home that
would help teachers is if wewould just not allow phones in
bedrooms, because I think a lotof what's happening with the
disruption too I mean, yes,there are disruption within the
(09:51):
classroom for sure, because kidsare recording each other,
they're recording their teacher.
You know bullying has happenedbecause of that.
We we know that there are manyissues with that.
One of the problems, too, isthat kids are up scrolling all
night long, they're not gettingenough sleep and then they're
falling asleep in class.
There's major behavior problems, and so, again it is.
It is schools and parentsworking together on this issue.
(10:12):
I hate that we've come to likepointing fingers and everybody's
like saying it's the otherperson's fault.
This has taken us all by.
I mean, we've all beenblindsided by the digital issues
with kids, and so I think if wecould just come together and
like parents do their part,teachers do their part, schools
do their part, man, we couldcreate such an amazing
(10:35):
educational space for our kidsto really get back to what's
important in learning andgrowing their mind and their
creativity.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, and you know, I would also say, in addition to
being on the same page with theteachers and administrators, I
think it's also important for usto be on the same page with
other parents as well.
So you know, it's easier to sayno to giving your child a
smartphone if their friend'sparents are also saying no to
(11:01):
giving their child a smartphone.
But when all their friends havesmartphones, you don't want your
kid to feel like odd man out.
You know they don't want tofeel excluded, and so oftentimes
that's what causes parents tocave to the pressure to give
their kids smartphones, evenwhen their best judgment tells
them no.
This is the wrong thing to do.
So, you know, if you have cancommunicate with the parents of
(11:26):
your kids' closest friends andsay look, we have made a
decision as a family that we aregoing to hold off on getting a
smartphone for our child untilthey're 13, 14, 15, 16, whatever
you decide, I would reallyappreciate it, you know, if you
would consider delaying gettingyour child a smartphone too.
I think it's in your child'sbest interest.
(11:46):
We believe it's in our child'sbest interest.
It'll be easier for them toresist that peer pressure if
they're in it together and ifyou can get several parents on
the same page with that, that'sgoing to make it a lot easier
for your child to not feelexcluded, to not feel like
they're the oddball becausethey're not on a smartphone.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Well, and I do think the tide is shifting a little
bit.
You know, you've got JonathanHyatt coming out with his
Ancients Generation.
It has gotten a lot ofpublicity, which is amazing, and
I think, too, kids are startingto understand the effects of it
, like they're getting educatedLike I don't want this in my
life right now, and I thinkthat's amazing.
When we can educate our kids onthe dangers of what's happening
(12:30):
online and the mental health,like we're seeing depression
more than doubled sinceInstagram came on the scene
major depression in kids and soif we can educate our kids about
that, then they will make evensmart choices for themselves,
and then it's not just parentand child butting heads saying
no, no, no, you can't have this.
It's literally like gettingeducated together and making a
(12:53):
better family decision ondelaying the phone, and you know
we advocate that.
It's a skill that we need toteach.
It's just like driving a car,but we definitely need to delay
until our kids are ready for theresponsibility.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Right, right, absolutely, absolutely correct.
And that's a great way tophrase it, because what we know
is that you know that thatprefrontal cortex of your brain
that's responsible for judgmentand impulse control, that isn't
fully developed until you're inyour early 20s sort of provoked
(13:27):
by somebody online, they're notusing that prefrontal cortex and
saying you know what?
I don't need to respond to thistaunt.
Or if I respond to this, itmight escalate.
Or if they're gettingsolicitous emails from what
appears to be an attractivefemale saying, hey, send me some
(13:47):
private pictures of yourself.
That prefrontal cortex islacking and they're not going to
have the judgment to say whatcould potentially happen down
the road if I do this thing.
So that's that.
You're absolutely right that weneed to delay.
We need to educate and trainalong the way too, because kids
are not thinking about thefuture.
They're, they're, they'reliving in the present moment and
they're reacting in the presentmoment.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
So if we want to know what ourstate is doing to ban cell
phones, where would be a goodplace to get educated about that
?
What's happening in ourspecific state with this
initiative?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
released last summer.
It's in the parent resourcessection of the website and it's
available as a PDF.
It's called Smartphones in theClassroom what States Are Doing
to Confront these DigitalDistractions.
And we've got there a resourcethat shows, state by state,
what's been happeninglegislatively which states have
implemented bans, which ones areconsidering bans.
That map has probably evenchanged in the last several
months because we know, forexample, that New York is
(14:55):
looking at considering astatewide ban.
I believe New York City schoolshave already implemented a ban.
I think California is lookingclosely at a statewide ban as
well.
So that map has probablychanged since we released the
report.
But we do go through state bystate what's been happening and
in some states where therehaven't been statewide bans,
(15:17):
sometimes the largest schooldistricts within the states have
already implemented bans.
But this does seem to be a trendthat is gaining momentum and
more and more states, I think,are going to be adopting these
policies because it makes sense.
The teachers want to see thishappen, administrators want to
see this happen, social sciencewants to see this happen.
More and more parents arewanting to see this happen
(15:39):
because I think they're seeingthe negative outcomes in the
lives of their own children.
So I think support for this isgaining momentum and I think
we'll see more and more statesadopting policies.
But if your state has not takenany steps to implement a
statewide ban, we also have apolicy guide at the end of that
report steps that you can taketo get a school faux man
(16:03):
implemented.
You know this is an area whereit's going to require being
involved in PTA and going totalk to school board meetings
and really putting some pressureon the administrator and school
at the district level theschool administrators to get
(16:23):
these policies implemented.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Well, I know in my own life I have seen some
amazing teachers retire and walkaway from the teaching
profession because, I mean, it'sjust kids are out of control,
and that breaks my heart,because we have these people who
have dedicated their lives toteaching our kids and they're
saying there's a problem here,something's wrong, and so I
(16:47):
don't know the whole solution,but I know we have to fix it and
I think we need to take littlesteps and as much as what we can
do to work towards the goal offiguring this out together.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I think that's extremely important and I think
you know the work begins at home.
It really does.
You know we can't have, youknow, no holds barred when it
comes to kids and screens whenthey're at home and then expect
them to abide by restrictionswhen they go to school.
(17:22):
So we need to be accountableourselves as parents.
We need to hold the line.
We need to set down some groundrules and enforce them, and
then we need to work within ourcommunities and try to get other
parents to cooperate and be onthe same page, and then school
level and so on.
I think there is cause for hopein that.
(17:44):
I have seen articles saying thatGen Z, for example, have
already declared that they'renot going to get tablets for
their kids because they seethese little three-year-old
zombies that are scrolling oniPads all the time, and they've
seen how phone addiction isaffecting older siblings or
their parents.
I've seen some heartbreakingstatistics about kids who feel
(18:06):
ignored or neglected by theirparents because their parents
are constantly scrolling.
So we need to look at ourselvesfirst, look at what we can fix
within our own home and our ownfamilies, and then we start to
look outward.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Absolutely.
I love that you say that,because you know some people are
just like pointing their fingerat school districts and it
really is a home issue, Likewe've got to start it in the
home.
And you're speaking my languagehere because this is, this is
next talk.
You know, um dealing with thisat home and and I would just say
out there, my daughter is thesame way.
(18:40):
She's like my kid's never goingto have a phone.
You know, like um, and and yougave me a phone too fast and we
talk about that sometimes.
But I would say to parents likeme who has an older kid our
generation of kids really werean experiment and we need to
learn from it.
And if you have a teenager,still engage in the conversation
(19:04):
, because I think it's soimportant that you say I just
didn't know, I didn't know theeffects, and now I'm concerned
about you because you are alwayson your phone or whatever.
You don't have to just come outswinging and screaming at your
kid.
You're addicted to your phone.
Get off your phone.
That's not what this is about.
This is about having a heart toheart and what you said at the
very beginning of this podcast,like put aside your pride, admit
(19:27):
where we went wrong and have aconversation with your kid.
You know, I didn't talk to youabout pornography.
I didn't talk to you aboutviolence.
That you would see.
I didn't talk to you about allof this stuff and that is on me.
I am so sorry.
Can we talk about it now?
Because I see thedesensitization that is
happening, and so I would justencourage you.
It's like never too late.
You know, hopefully the nextgeneration, they're going to do
(19:48):
better than we did, they'regoing to know more than we did,
but it's never too late to starttalking to your kid and having
a heart to heart and creatingthis conversation at home.
Absolutely Well put, Thank you.
Thank you for all the work thatyou're doing here and thank you
for putting this informationtogether so we can see what's
happening state by state andproviding a policy packet.
(20:10):
If we feel like this is theline of work that we want to do
and we're passionate about it,Parents, I encourage you to do
it.
I think we're all been calledin different ways to step up and
voice our concerns here, so Iwanted to give you a place that
you could go and an organizationthat is helping in this space,
and, Melissa, I just thank youfor all the work you're doing.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Well, thank you, and thank you for helping to amplify
this message and get the wordout, and hopefully we'll see
good things happening all acrossthis country.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Is there anything else you want to tell our
listeners?
We're mostly parents, so youcan just I think you've spoken a
lot to us I'm walking awaysaying, okay, I need some gut
checks, I need to make sure thatmy pride is in check, and I'm
looking in the mirror and doingall these things.
But is there anything else youwould like to say to parents?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah Well, yeah, parents often get beat up on too
over this thing, and I think wealso need to give ourselves a
little bit of grace, because weare up against a multi-billion
dollar industry here.
It's manipulated us all intobelieving that we need to.
For our kids to be successfulin the world, they need to be on
these devices at an early ageso that they can be familiar
(21:21):
with technology.
So give ourselves a little bitof grace too.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I think that's such a word, and it's a good ending.
Thank you so much, melissa, forbeing here.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Next Talk is a 501c3 nonprofit keeping kids safe
online.
To support our work, make adonation at nexttalkorg.
Next Talk resources are notintended to replace the advice
of a trained healthcare or legalprofessional, or to diagnose,
treat or otherwise render expertadvice regarding any type of
medical, psychological, legal,financial or other problem.
You are advised to consult aqualified expert for your
(21:54):
personal.
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