January 31, 2025 • 26 mins
Gender is a topic we’ve covered previously because we’ve seen the number of kids questioning their gender rise with more use of social media. With the recent Executive Order banning surgeries in minors, how do we talk with our kids about it?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast.
We are a nonprofit passionateabout keeping kids safe online.
We're learning together how tonavigate tech, culture and faith
with our kids.
The Trump administration hasreleased a flurry of executive
orders.
Specifically, he signed onewith the title quote protecting
(00:22):
children from chemical andsurgical mutilation unquote.
Now, at Next Talk, we havenever endorsed a political
candidate and would never tellpeople who to vote for.
All politicians, people,parents, I mean we're all flawed
.
We're all still learning.
Gender, though, is somethingthat I've studied, written and
spoken about for the last decade.
(00:42):
In 2017, I released my book anddid extensive research for my
transgender section.
I've walked alongside familieswho are helping their
gender-confused kids, since it'sa topic we have covered
frequently here.
This is why we're doing thispodcast.
I really felt led to do it, andI even polled our people on our
(01:04):
IG story to just see do youguys want to hear from us on
this or are you sick of all thehot takes?
And, much to my surprise, 100%of you who voted asked for this
show.
So here we go.
I do want to start off by sayingthe purpose of this show is to
help you talk to your kids aboutthis intersection of culture
(01:25):
and faith that we're seeing.
And if you're new here, I'm aChristian mom and this will be
from my faith perspective.
I often work with churches andChristian families navigating
the space.
I also want to note I do getinvited to speak in public
schools and I have anon-religious presentation.
In that non-religiouspresentation, I do not speak
(01:47):
about gender.
You know that presentation isgeared solely on online safety,
predators, grooming, porn andthe mental health challenges our
kids face because of socialmedia and technology, and in my
church presentation I alsoinclude things on sexuality and
gender from a biblicalperspective.
So first I want to say, beforeI get into the talking points on
(02:10):
how to have this conversationabout gender with our kids, I do
want to be clear about where Ipersonally stand on this issue
and I hope that you'll hear meout to the end if you disagree,
because I am issuing a bigchallenge to Christians and
churches at the end of thispodcast.
Obviously, there are things Iagree and disagree with.
(02:31):
When it came to Biden and nowTrump, this executive order.
Though I am thankful, I amactually relieved, you guys,
what I've learned behind thescenes over the last decade in
this space about gender hasgrieved me.
There have been so many momentsthat I can't believe this is
(02:53):
actually happening.
I have talked to medicalprofessionals who have advocated
for LGBTQ rights, some of themtheir entire lives, and even
they were raising a red flag towhat society was doing.
I literally cannot believe wehave been cutting off healthy
body parts of children andputting them on the path to
(03:16):
lifetime drugs and surgeries.
The stories of detransitionershave completely grieved me and
outraged me at the same time.
Some of these kids, they can'torgasm, they can't have a
healthy sex life, they can'tbreastfeed their babies and they
(03:36):
experience pain with basicfunctions like peeing.
After these surgeries and themainstream media has often
silenced these detransitioners.
They have been attacked forspeaking out and then the
slippery slope gets even worse.
I mean we've now seen theprogression that adults are
(03:58):
introducing the idea tosix-year-olds that they may not
be the same gender as theirbiological sex.
I mean it is one thing to havea 16-year-old kid who is
struggling with their gender.
It is another to look asix-year-old in the face and
introduce confusion and chaos tolittle kids that we know leads
(04:20):
to a surgical path.
So yeah, I'm going to be realhonest.
I'm relieved that someone hasstepped up and said we will not
support this as a country.
As for the specifics of theexecutive order, I'll link it so
you can read it for yourself.
It defines minor as under 19years old.
(04:40):
Honestly, I do not think sexchange surgery should be allowed
until at least 25, once thebrain is fully developed, but
that's my opinion and, honestly,more than a legal age, I just
want to make it unthinkable.
I want to dive into why this isso harmful and I also will say
who knows if the executive orderwill be challenged and if it
(05:02):
will stand up.
If the executive order will bechallenged and if it will stand
up, I think it will be veryinteresting to see how this
plays out.
Politicians who supported sexsurgeries for minors will they
continue to?
I've seen some of them backingaway from their issue because
they see the outrage and, to bequite honest, that makes me even
more mad.
They know it impacted theelection.
(05:24):
I mean, I have talked with manyof you who are from different
parties and this issue we aremostly united on that.
Minors should not be able tohave sex change surgeries While
kids are caught up in thispolitical firestorm, you have
people supporting it, and willthey continue to buckle down and
(05:45):
make a case for it, or willthey let it go and step away
from it because they see theoutrage that it's created?
This will be very interestingto watch and something to
discuss and keep discussing inour homes.
I'm also aware, having said that, that we are a pendulum
swinging society and, at thesame time, I am truly worried
(06:10):
about this getting out ofcontrol and people becoming
bullies and hateful.
And, I'm going to be honest,I'm absolutely shattered for
these kids and families who arecaught up in the lies that have
been fed to them by adults andthey are scared.
And what is going to be theprotocol for those who are right
(06:30):
now on puberty blockers?
Is it just to stop?
What is the protocol to treatthese kids who feel like this is
helping them?
There is so much that we havegot to think about with this.
These kids truly believe theyhave been born in the wrong body
.
They hate themselves the waythey are.
(06:51):
They want to cut off theirpenis.
There are girls who want tohave skin taken from their arms
so that a penis can be createdfor them, because they believe
that will finally make themhappy.
Our kids have become anexperiment, a research project.
So how do we talk to our kidsabout all of this?
(07:13):
First of all, I want to say,with any topic, if you have
never talked about gender withyour kids, just ask them what
they know about it, what theythink about it and what do you
think about the new policiesthat the Trump administration
has just ordered?
Gather context for what's inyour kid's mind and their heart.
(07:35):
Always ask your kids what theyknow and what they believe first
, and this will really helpguide your conversations.
For example, if they aredemonizing trans kids and making
fun of them.
Man, what an opportunity youhave as a parent to speak into
your kid about being kind, abouttreating others the same way
(07:58):
they want to be treated, by theway.
That is scripture and Jesussaid it and loving others.
Well, we cannot raise bullies.
We have to raise empatheticchildren.
So don't let your kids make funor bully trans kids.
If they are outraged at the neworder and they are like I don't
(08:18):
know what the big deal is, letkids have surgeries then you may
need to do some education aboutwhy people are against this.
And if you do this, this is nota lecture.
It's looking at your kid andsaying, okay, I see why some
people are upset about this.
Why would the other side behappy?
Let's dive into that a bit.
So, for example, search ChloeCole, c-o-l-e is her last name,
(08:43):
and listen to her story.
I know many have beengaslighted in believing, in
saying these surgeries aren'thappening on minors.
Search Chloe, listen to herstory.
She's not the only one, butshe's leading the charge here.
Read Abigail Shire's book.
It is called IrreversibleDamage.
This book was literally bannedfrom being sold on Amazon when
(09:07):
it first came out.
And let me tell you something,abigail, she's not a Christian.
I don't believe or agree witheverything she says in her book
and the advice that she gives toparents about everything, but
the reporting that she did ongender ideology movement was
astounding.
Read it.
Christian parents, I want to saysomething to you here.
(09:29):
Oftentimes we'll tell our kidsthe Bible says male or female,
and that's the way it is.
And while I agree with thatbiblically, our kids may need
more in this culture, and I knowthat's tough for some of us,
because if God says it, it'sgood enough for us, right?
Yes, I agree with that.
But sometimes kids need to lookat science.
(09:50):
They need to look at thelogical viewpoint without
scripture.
To dismantle the culturalarguments that are being fed to
them on their social mediaalgorithm.
Let them look at logic.
Science is on our side.
It matches up with God's word.
We did a show recently about abook written by an atheist and
(10:11):
social psychologist, jonathanHaidt.
Obviously I don't agree withhim on everything.
Even he raised a red flag abouthow friend groups seem to
cluster to gender ideology andthat's also why I recommend
Abigail's book and search ChloeCole.
Search other detransitionerswho are not Christian but who
are actually sharing theirstories, just about logically
(10:35):
breaking free from thismentality.
In my book I, of course, lay outthe biblical foundation for
male and female, but I alsotackle the conversation about
intersex.
These are kids who are bornwith things like genitalia
abnormalities.
This is very different from thegender movement we've seen the
last decade.
The current gender ideology ismore mental.
(10:56):
The intersex conversation ismore physical.
You can check out, talk formore info on that.
But I do want to put thatdisclaimer in here, because if
your kids bring up intersex asyou're talking to them, make the
distinction that intersex isnot the same as the gender
ideology movement we're talkingabout.
Even non-Christians arepointing out the dangers of
(11:18):
current gender ideology.
Now, if you want to go back tothe basics about gender, go
check out our pronouns show.
We break it all down there.
And do you remember the TikToktrend of saying Jesus was trans?
We tackled that too.
I'll link that show as well Formy kids.
As we've talked through all this, I would always say and really
(11:38):
I would do this with any topiclet's look at both opposing
sides and what they're saying.
Then we start to get a pictureof the complex issue instead of
it all being one-sided.
This, I believe, helps keepyour kids from being radicalized
on either pendulum extremes.
And in our home, once we lookedat both opposing sides, we
(12:04):
would also put it through thefilter of scripture and see what
the Bible says to determinewhere we would fall on the issue
.
I know that the biblical stanceis not for everyone, but it's
our belief system in our home.
And even if you're not doingthat, looking at both opposing
sides is so beneficial to havinggood conversations with your
kids.
One other thing that I wouldalways say to my kids give
(12:25):
yourself time with tattoos,gender sexuality, I mean,
whatever it is.
Don't make any big decisionsuntil you're older and your
brain is fully developed.
When you go through puberty,you will most likely hate your
body.
I know I did.
I was a late bloomer and feltso awkward and weird.
But as I got older I maturedand learned to love myself for
(12:48):
me.
Most people feel weird goingthrough puberty.
So give yourself a minute.
Talk about labels.
You know, for a Christian home,I would say don't feel pressure
to check a box or a label aboutanything.
And I'm not just talking aboutgender or sexuality.
I'm talking about you know, fat, stupid, calling yourselves
anything.
And I'm not just talking aboutgender or sexuality.
I'm talking about you know, fat, stupid, calling yourselves
(13:08):
anything.
These labels that we, that weattach to us.
I would say your identity.
This is what I used to say tomy kids.
Your identity is child of God.
That's it.
And then as you grow and matureand develop and go through
puberty, you're going to figureeverything out.
Your brain will develop and youwill figure out more of who you
(13:29):
are.
But you've got to give yourselftime.
Christians, I cannot emphasizethis enough.
Your kids need to see you lovepeople who are different than
you.
The world is telling your kidsthat you are phobic.
I'm going to ask you are you?
Because we did a show on thattoo.
I as a Christian can believewe're born male or female and I
(13:52):
can also believe that I am tolove and respect everyone.
It's the balance of love andtruth I write about in my book
and don't just say you loveeveryone, do it.
I remember one time at theheight of this, these
conversations in our home aboutgender when my kids were growing
up.
I remember we went out to eatand there was there was
(14:14):
obviously a trans waiter and mykids saw me love that person,
tip that person well, treat thatperson the same respect I would
want to be treated.
I mean, I've had LGBTQ kids inmy home.
They're always welcome in myhome, in my church, and I love
them.
Well, I get called wokesometimes because of that.
(14:34):
I call it respect, humanrespect.
Ephesians 6 tells us that ourfight is not against flesh and
blood, but against the power ofthe world's darkness and against
the spiritual forces of evil.
Our fight is not against fleshand blood.
Our fight is not against LGBTQfolks.
And I want to pause here for aminute because, christians, we
(14:57):
are in an important moment.
Most of us are thankful forthis executive order, but are we
thinking about the kids caughtup in this.
They're scared.
How are they going to treattheir bodies that they hate?
They're crying.
If they walk into our churchthis weekend, will we love them?
Well, I think about when I wasa teenager.
(15:19):
Abortion became very common andif a pregnant teen walked into
our church she was judged andshamed.
We have started to wrong thatright in many Christian spaces,
with pregnancy support centersand many, many churches doing
outreach for pregnant teens.
But can we learn from ourmistakes?
Right now, we must love genderconfused kids so well.
(15:42):
Churches, what are we doing tomobilize and minister to LGBTQ
kids?
In this moment, I pray we'rethinking about it, that we're
prepared, that we're ready.
Parents, I take your calls.
I walk alongside of you.
There are many that I have beenpraying for with these executive
orders coming out, because Iknow your kids are confused by
(16:04):
their gender or their friendsare and you are loving
unconditionally, but you havenot affirmed that belief system
because you are so concernedabout the harmful path it puts
them on In this moment.
If that is you, your kid doesnot need you to rejoice and say,
finally, an executive orderthat stops this madness.
(16:25):
Your kid probably needs you tolook at them and in all
sincerity say are you okay, comealongside and help your kid
process the new policies.
Don't gloat, don't throw it intheir face.
I think about Jesus comingalongside all the people in the
(16:46):
Bible who were led astray.
Of course he didn't waver.
Sin is sin, evil is evil.
He called it out, but he lovedand walked alongside people.
Well, do this for your child.
I think this movement is veryharmful, but I realize there are
real people who have been soldthe lie.
They're like Eve in the garden.
(17:08):
You know, satan tempted herwith the knowledge of God.
That sounds good.
We will be tempted with thingsthat sound good.
Ephesians 4.14 says People willtry to trick us with lies so
clever they sound like the truth.
That brings me to anotherconversation that you need to
(17:30):
have with your kids that youprobably aren't expecting on a
gender podcast ProgressiveChristianity.
Gone are the days that, becausea pastor said it, it's in the
Bible.
There are so many variations ofChristianity out there today
and the Bible actually says noteveryone who calls on me Lord
will enter the kingdom of heaven.
(17:50):
Alyssa Childers wrote a bookcalled Another Gospel.
Read it First.
Thessalonians says testeverything that is said, hold on
to what is good.
Stay away from every kind ofevil.
Test everything that is said.
I have quoted that over andover to my kids through the
years, whether it's a pastor, amedical professional, a teacher.
(18:14):
Test everything that is said.
Does this make sense?
What does the Bible say aboutit?
What does God say about it?
Because humans are flawed,we're all getting it wrong.
There's only one who is allknowing who.
His ways are, not our ways.
He thinks differently than wethink and honestly, I wouldn't
want to follow a God who thinkslike me.
(18:37):
In my limited capacity Forprogressive Christians, they
tend to mold their politicsfirst, and then their theology
of what the Bible says comes outof that.
Now, this is something thatAlyssa Childers just pointed out
.
So Christians should do theopposite, lisa Childers just
pointed out.
So Christians should do theopposite.
(18:57):
We should read scripture firstand then.
That helps shape our politicalviewpoint.
So, with progressiveChristianity and progressive
churches, three of the mainissues that I look for is how
they define marriage, gender andlife.
If those three things don'talign with what the Bible says,
I have questions I'm going toquestion.
(19:18):
This is a conversation you needto have with your kids when
they get older because they maybe looking for another church.
They may not like your church.
They may want to go to youthgroup at a different church.
When they move to college,they're going to be church
shopping.
You need to equip them withwhat to look for in a church.
When they move to college,they're going to be church
shopping.
You need to equip them withwhat to look for in a church.
I believe a lot of why we gotinto this confusion and chaos of
(19:41):
gender is that Jesus followerswere too silent at first on the
issue of gender.
We just let it happen.
And then, when people did startto speak up in Christian
circles, it was hateful.
We were judgmental instead ofloving.
We failed as a Christiancommunity to say hey, I can
(20:03):
believe that people are bornmale or female, and I can also
acknowledge that there are kidswho truly have gender dysphoria
and struggle with this.
Because to me, the real debateis what the treatment plan is
for these kids.
It's not that we're saying theydon't exist.
What is the treatment plan?
(20:24):
And that's where the rub is.
How do we treat kids withgender dysphoria?
And again, I truly believe thepath to lifelong medication and
surgeries is not the answer.
One thing I have also alwaysdone with my kids, and I think
it's important in this genderconversation, is acknowledge the
(20:46):
crazy Christians that are outthere, and that's what I would
call them.
These are people literallyspewing hate and being a bully
in the name of Jesus, trying toerase gender confused kids.
Don't be that kind of Christianand model this well for your
kids.
As you talk about Bible views onmarriage, gender and life, your
(21:08):
kids may also say why won't Godlet people just do what they
want to do?
Well, there's a couple ofresponses to that.
One is he actually.
Does people just do what theywant to do?
Well, there's a coupleresponses to that.
One is he actually does let usdo what we want.
Like we get choices, we havefree will, but there are
consequences for steppingoutside of his will.
When my kids were growing upone of the other ways that I
(21:28):
would answer that question is,as they got a little bit older,
in middle school, I would sayhey, do you remember when you
wanted Snapchat in third grade?
And I said no, it wasn'tbecause I hated you and wanted
to make your life miserable.
It was because I knew thedangers that existed on Snapchat
, and I knew your little heartand mind weren't ready for that
(21:49):
yet, so I said no to protect you.
God has our best interest atheart when he creates a
parameter for our life.
He knows that sin is anentrapment, it will put us in
bondage, and he wants us to livein freedom, but he gives us
free choice.
I think the other thing we needto tackle here is you know, the
(22:11):
world always tells us followyour heart, and God doesn't say
that.
In fact, the Bible says inJeremiah that our heart is
deceitful.
We can be led astray by our ownself, and I mean just looking
over the course of my life.
I see how this happened in myown life Led astray with my own
(22:32):
heart, people I dated to, badchoices I make.
I saw it.
So we can't always just followour heart, especially if Jesus
is not filling that space.
So these are some talkingpoints to have with your kids.
The executive order has beenissued.
Let's see how it evolves.
(22:52):
Will it stand Policy or nopolicy?
I want to make sex changes forkids unthinkable.
I want to dig in and untanglethe manipulation that has been
happening in this space, allwhile loving others.
Well, I want us to let kids bekids again.
I want kids to look in themirror and say I'm going to love
(23:15):
me for me, I'm going to acceptmyself.
I want the churches I love somuch to rise up in this moment
and love LGBTQ kids and familiesin the best way.
Parents are hurting.
They're scared for their ownkids.
You know this whole show isabout gender and, honestly, we
(23:38):
have all made gender an idol.
I mean, I'm talking to youchurch too.
I mean, do we talk more aboutwomen being pastors than feeding
the poor?
That's a question for us tocheck our heart.
We've made gender an idol inthis world.
But guess what, at the end ofour life, when we're on our
deathbed, will it matter if weare male or female?
(24:00):
All this time and energy aroundgender roles pronouns policies,
the debates.
The Bible says we'll be groupedin two categories those who put
their faith in Jesus and thosewho did not.
Galatians 3.28 says there is nolonger Jew or Gentile, slave or
(24:22):
free, male or female, for youare all one in Christ Jesus.
One day, each of us will standbefore and give an account to
our creator, parents.
We are given these preciouskids and God entrusts us to lead
, guide and speak into them.
(24:42):
We don't always get it right.
We're flawed, but we will givean account to him one day for
the words and the path we've putour kids on.
If you follow the world, it'sgoing to lead to chaos.
It's going to lead to confusion.
It puts our kids down the wrongpath.
(25:02):
Listen if you seek Jesus, youread his word, you commit to him
.
You get to know his character.
You see false prophets whenthey happen.
Because you're reading the wordand you know what it says, you
will be guided by the HolySpirit with wisdom and guidance.
You will still mess up, but youwill feel the conviction of
(25:24):
going to your kid andapologizing.
When you do, step by step,he'll show you the way to model
love and truth in a broken world.
Please, let's pray for ourLGBTQ people and let's also be
happy that somebody is standingup and saying we're not going to
do sex reassignment surgerieson minors.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Next Talk is a 501c3 nonprofit keeping kids safe
online.
To support our work, make adonation at nexttalkorg.
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast.
We are a nonprofit passionateabout keeping kids safe online.
We're learning together how tonavigate tech, culture and faith
with our kids.
The Trump administration hasreleased a flurry of executive
orders.
Specifically, he signed onewith the title quote protecting
(00:22):
children from chemical andsurgical mutilation unquote.
Now, at Next Talk, we havenever endorsed a political
candidate and would never tellpeople who to vote for.
All politicians, people,parents, I mean we're all flawed
.
We're all still learning.
Gender, though, is somethingthat I've studied, written and
spoken about for the last decade.
(00:42):
In 2017, I released my book anddid extensive research for my
transgender section.
I've walked alongside familieswho are helping their
gender-confused kids, since it'sa topic we have covered
frequently here.
This is why we're doing thispodcast.
I really felt led to do it, andI even polled our people on our
(01:04):
IG story to just see do youguys want to hear from us on
this or are you sick of all thehot takes?
And, much to my surprise, 100%of you who voted asked for this
show.
So here we go.
I do want to start off by sayingthe purpose of this show is to
help you talk to your kids aboutthis intersection of culture
(01:25):
and faith that we're seeing.
And if you're new here, I'm aChristian mom and this will be
from my faith perspective.
I often work with churches andChristian families navigating
the space.
I also want to note I do getinvited to speak in public
schools and I have anon-religious presentation.
In that non-religiouspresentation, I do not speak
(01:47):
about gender.
You know that presentation isgeared solely on online safety,
predators, grooming, porn andthe mental health challenges our
kids face because of socialmedia and technology, and in my
church presentation I alsoinclude things on sexuality and
gender from a biblicalperspective.
So first I want to say, beforeI get into the talking points on
(02:10):
how to have this conversationabout gender with our kids, I do
want to be clear about where Ipersonally stand on this issue
and I hope that you'll hear meout to the end if you disagree,
because I am issuing a bigchallenge to Christians and
churches at the end of thispodcast.
Obviously, there are things Iagree and disagree with.
(02:31):
When it came to Biden and nowTrump, this executive order.
Though I am thankful, I amactually relieved, you guys,
what I've learned behind thescenes over the last decade in
this space about gender hasgrieved me.
There have been so many momentsthat I can't believe this is
(02:53):
actually happening.
I have talked to medicalprofessionals who have advocated
for LGBTQ rights, some of themtheir entire lives, and even
they were raising a red flag towhat society was doing.
I literally cannot believe wehave been cutting off healthy
body parts of children andputting them on the path to
(03:16):
lifetime drugs and surgeries.
The stories of detransitionershave completely grieved me and
outraged me at the same time.
Some of these kids, they can'torgasm, they can't have a
healthy sex life, they can'tbreastfeed their babies and they
(03:36):
experience pain with basicfunctions like peeing.
After these surgeries and themainstream media has often
silenced these detransitioners.
They have been attacked forspeaking out and then the
slippery slope gets even worse.
I mean we've now seen theprogression that adults are
(03:58):
introducing the idea tosix-year-olds that they may not
be the same gender as theirbiological sex.
I mean it is one thing to havea 16-year-old kid who is
struggling with their gender.
It is another to look asix-year-old in the face and
introduce confusion and chaos tolittle kids that we know leads
(04:20):
to a surgical path.
So yeah, I'm going to be realhonest.
I'm relieved that someone hasstepped up and said we will not
support this as a country.
As for the specifics of theexecutive order, I'll link it so
you can read it for yourself.
It defines minor as under 19years old.
(04:40):
Honestly, I do not think sexchange surgery should be allowed
until at least 25, once thebrain is fully developed, but
that's my opinion and, honestly,more than a legal age, I just
want to make it unthinkable.
I want to dive into why this isso harmful and I also will say
who knows if the executive orderwill be challenged and if it
(05:02):
will stand up.
If the executive order will bechallenged and if it will stand
up, I think it will be veryinteresting to see how this
plays out.
Politicians who supported sexsurgeries for minors will they
continue to?
I've seen some of them backingaway from their issue because
they see the outrage and, to bequite honest, that makes me even
more mad.
They know it impacted theelection.
(05:24):
I mean, I have talked with manyof you who are from different
parties and this issue we aremostly united on that.
Minors should not be able tohave sex change surgeries While
kids are caught up in thispolitical firestorm, you have
people supporting it, and willthey continue to buckle down and
(05:45):
make a case for it, or willthey let it go and step away
from it because they see theoutrage that it's created?
This will be very interestingto watch and something to
discuss and keep discussing inour homes.
I'm also aware, having said that, that we are a pendulum
swinging society and, at thesame time, I am truly worried
(06:10):
about this getting out ofcontrol and people becoming
bullies and hateful.
And, I'm going to be honest,I'm absolutely shattered for
these kids and families who arecaught up in the lies that have
been fed to them by adults andthey are scared.
And what is going to be theprotocol for those who are right
(06:30):
now on puberty blockers?
Is it just to stop?
What is the protocol to treatthese kids who feel like this is
helping them?
There is so much that we havegot to think about with this.
These kids truly believe theyhave been born in the wrong body
.
They hate themselves the waythey are.
(06:51):
They want to cut off theirpenis.
There are girls who want tohave skin taken from their arms
so that a penis can be createdfor them, because they believe
that will finally make themhappy.
Our kids have become anexperiment, a research project.
So how do we talk to our kidsabout all of this?
(07:13):
First of all, I want to say,with any topic, if you have
never talked about gender withyour kids, just ask them what
they know about it, what theythink about it and what do you
think about the new policiesthat the Trump administration
has just ordered?
Gather context for what's inyour kid's mind and their heart.
(07:35):
Always ask your kids what theyknow and what they believe first
, and this will really helpguide your conversations.
For example, if they aredemonizing trans kids and making
fun of them.
Man, what an opportunity youhave as a parent to speak into
your kid about being kind, abouttreating others the same way
(07:58):
they want to be treated, by theway.
That is scripture and Jesussaid it and loving others.
Well, we cannot raise bullies.
We have to raise empatheticchildren.
So don't let your kids make funor bully trans kids.
If they are outraged at the neworder and they are like I don't
(08:18):
know what the big deal is, letkids have surgeries then you may
need to do some education aboutwhy people are against this.
And if you do this, this is nota lecture.
It's looking at your kid andsaying, okay, I see why some
people are upset about this.
Why would the other side behappy?
Let's dive into that a bit.
So, for example, search ChloeCole, c-o-l-e is her last name,
(08:43):
and listen to her story.
I know many have beengaslighted in believing, in
saying these surgeries aren'thappening on minors.
Search Chloe, listen to herstory.
She's not the only one, butshe's leading the charge here.
Read Abigail Shire's book.
It is called IrreversibleDamage.
This book was literally bannedfrom being sold on Amazon when
(09:07):
it first came out.
And let me tell you something,abigail, she's not a Christian.
I don't believe or agree witheverything she says in her book
and the advice that she gives toparents about everything, but
the reporting that she did ongender ideology movement was
astounding.
Read it.
Christian parents, I want to saysomething to you here.
(09:29):
Oftentimes we'll tell our kidsthe Bible says male or female,
and that's the way it is.
And while I agree with thatbiblically, our kids may need
more in this culture, and I knowthat's tough for some of us,
because if God says it, it'sgood enough for us, right?
Yes, I agree with that.
But sometimes kids need to lookat science.
(09:50):
They need to look at thelogical viewpoint without
scripture.
To dismantle the culturalarguments that are being fed to
them on their social mediaalgorithm.
Let them look at logic.
Science is on our side.
It matches up with God's word.
We did a show recently about abook written by an atheist and
(10:11):
social psychologist, jonathanHaidt.
Obviously I don't agree withhim on everything.
Even he raised a red flag abouthow friend groups seem to
cluster to gender ideology andthat's also why I recommend
Abigail's book and search ChloeCole.
Search other detransitionerswho are not Christian but who
are actually sharing theirstories, just about logically
(10:35):
breaking free from thismentality.
In my book I, of course, lay outthe biblical foundation for
male and female, but I alsotackle the conversation about
intersex.
These are kids who are bornwith things like genitalia
abnormalities.
This is very different from thegender movement we've seen the
last decade.
The current gender ideology ismore mental.
(10:56):
The intersex conversation ismore physical.
You can check out, talk formore info on that.
But I do want to put thatdisclaimer in here, because if
your kids bring up intersex asyou're talking to them, make the
distinction that intersex isnot the same as the gender
ideology movement we're talkingabout.
Even non-Christians arepointing out the dangers of
(11:18):
current gender ideology.
Now, if you want to go back tothe basics about gender, go
check out our pronouns show.
We break it all down there.
And do you remember the TikToktrend of saying Jesus was trans?
We tackled that too.
I'll link that show as well Formy kids.
As we've talked through all this, I would always say and really
(11:38):
I would do this with any topiclet's look at both opposing
sides and what they're saying.
Then we start to get a pictureof the complex issue instead of
it all being one-sided.
This, I believe, helps keepyour kids from being radicalized
on either pendulum extremes.
And in our home, once we lookedat both opposing sides, we
(12:04):
would also put it through thefilter of scripture and see what
the Bible says to determinewhere we would fall on the issue
.
I know that the biblical stanceis not for everyone, but it's
our belief system in our home.
And even if you're not doingthat, looking at both opposing
sides is so beneficial to havinggood conversations with your
kids.
One other thing that I wouldalways say to my kids give
(12:25):
yourself time with tattoos,gender sexuality, I mean,
whatever it is.
Don't make any big decisionsuntil you're older and your
brain is fully developed.
When you go through puberty,you will most likely hate your
body.
I know I did.
I was a late bloomer and feltso awkward and weird.
But as I got older I maturedand learned to love myself for
(12:48):
me.
Most people feel weird goingthrough puberty.
So give yourself a minute.
Talk about labels.
You know, for a Christian home,I would say don't feel pressure
to check a box or a label aboutanything.
And I'm not just talking aboutgender or sexuality.
I'm talking about you know, fat, stupid, calling yourselves
anything.
And I'm not just talking aboutgender or sexuality.
I'm talking about you know, fat, stupid, calling yourselves
(13:08):
anything.
These labels that we, that weattach to us.
I would say your identity.
This is what I used to say tomy kids.
Your identity is child of God.
That's it.
And then as you grow and matureand develop and go through
puberty, you're going to figureeverything out.
Your brain will develop and youwill figure out more of who you
(13:29):
are.
But you've got to give yourselftime.
Christians, I cannot emphasizethis enough.
Your kids need to see you lovepeople who are different than
you.
The world is telling your kidsthat you are phobic.
I'm going to ask you are you?
Because we did a show on thattoo.
I as a Christian can believewe're born male or female and I
(13:52):
can also believe that I am tolove and respect everyone.
It's the balance of love andtruth I write about in my book
and don't just say you loveeveryone, do it.
I remember one time at theheight of this, these
conversations in our home aboutgender when my kids were growing
up.
I remember we went out to eatand there was there was
(14:14):
obviously a trans waiter and mykids saw me love that person,
tip that person well, treat thatperson the same respect I would
want to be treated.
I mean, I've had LGBTQ kids inmy home.
They're always welcome in myhome, in my church, and I love
them.
Well, I get called wokesometimes because of that.
(14:34):
I call it respect, humanrespect.
Ephesians 6 tells us that ourfight is not against flesh and
blood, but against the power ofthe world's darkness and against
the spiritual forces of evil.
Our fight is not against fleshand blood.
Our fight is not against LGBTQfolks.
And I want to pause here for aminute because, christians, we
(14:57):
are in an important moment.
Most of us are thankful forthis executive order, but are we
thinking about the kids caughtup in this.
They're scared.
How are they going to treattheir bodies that they hate?
They're crying.
If they walk into our churchthis weekend, will we love them?
Well, I think about when I wasa teenager.
(15:19):
Abortion became very common andif a pregnant teen walked into
our church she was judged andshamed.
We have started to wrong thatright in many Christian spaces,
with pregnancy support centersand many, many churches doing
outreach for pregnant teens.
But can we learn from ourmistakes?
Right now, we must love genderconfused kids so well.
(15:42):
Churches, what are we doing tomobilize and minister to LGBTQ
kids?
In this moment, I pray we'rethinking about it, that we're
prepared, that we're ready.
Parents, I take your calls.
I walk alongside of you.
There are many that I have beenpraying for with these executive
orders coming out, because Iknow your kids are confused by
(16:04):
their gender or their friendsare and you are loving
unconditionally, but you havenot affirmed that belief system
because you are so concernedabout the harmful path it puts
them on In this moment.
If that is you, your kid doesnot need you to rejoice and say,
finally, an executive orderthat stops this madness.
(16:25):
Your kid probably needs you tolook at them and in all
sincerity say are you okay, comealongside and help your kid
process the new policies.
Don't gloat, don't throw it intheir face.
I think about Jesus comingalongside all the people in the
(16:46):
Bible who were led astray.
Of course he didn't waver.
Sin is sin, evil is evil.
He called it out, but he lovedand walked alongside people.
Well, do this for your child.
I think this movement is veryharmful, but I realize there are
real people who have been soldthe lie.
They're like Eve in the garden.
(17:08):
You know, satan tempted herwith the knowledge of God.
That sounds good.
We will be tempted with thingsthat sound good.
Ephesians 4.14 says People willtry to trick us with lies so
clever they sound like the truth.
That brings me to anotherconversation that you need to
(17:30):
have with your kids that youprobably aren't expecting on a
gender podcast ProgressiveChristianity.
Gone are the days that, becausea pastor said it, it's in the
Bible.
There are so many variations ofChristianity out there today
and the Bible actually says noteveryone who calls on me Lord
will enter the kingdom of heaven.
(17:50):
Alyssa Childers wrote a bookcalled Another Gospel.
Read it First.
Thessalonians says testeverything that is said, hold on
to what is good.
Stay away from every kind ofevil.
Test everything that is said.
I have quoted that over andover to my kids through the
years, whether it's a pastor, amedical professional, a teacher.
(18:14):
Test everything that is said.
Does this make sense?
What does the Bible say aboutit?
What does God say about it?
Because humans are flawed,we're all getting it wrong.
There's only one who is allknowing who.
His ways are, not our ways.
He thinks differently than wethink and honestly, I wouldn't
want to follow a God who thinkslike me.
(18:37):
In my limited capacity Forprogressive Christians, they
tend to mold their politicsfirst, and then their theology
of what the Bible says comes outof that.
Now, this is something thatAlyssa Childers just pointed out
.
So Christians should do theopposite, lisa Childers just
pointed out.
So Christians should do theopposite.
(18:57):
We should read scripture firstand then.
That helps shape our politicalviewpoint.
So, with progressiveChristianity and progressive
churches, three of the mainissues that I look for is how
they define marriage, gender andlife.
If those three things don'talign with what the Bible says,
I have questions I'm going toquestion.
(19:18):
This is a conversation you needto have with your kids when
they get older because they maybe looking for another church.
They may not like your church.
They may want to go to youthgroup at a different church.
When they move to college,they're going to be church
shopping.
You need to equip them withwhat to look for in a church.
When they move to college,they're going to be church
shopping.
You need to equip them withwhat to look for in a church.
I believe a lot of why we gotinto this confusion and chaos of
(19:41):
gender is that Jesus followerswere too silent at first on the
issue of gender.
We just let it happen.
And then, when people did startto speak up in Christian
circles, it was hateful.
We were judgmental instead ofloving.
We failed as a Christiancommunity to say hey, I can
(20:03):
believe that people are bornmale or female, and I can also
acknowledge that there are kidswho truly have gender dysphoria
and struggle with this.
Because to me, the real debateis what the treatment plan is
for these kids.
It's not that we're saying theydon't exist.
What is the treatment plan?
(20:24):
And that's where the rub is.
How do we treat kids withgender dysphoria?
And again, I truly believe thepath to lifelong medication and
surgeries is not the answer.
One thing I have also alwaysdone with my kids, and I think
it's important in this genderconversation, is acknowledge the
(20:46):
crazy Christians that are outthere, and that's what I would
call them.
These are people literallyspewing hate and being a bully
in the name of Jesus, trying toerase gender confused kids.
Don't be that kind of Christianand model this well for your
kids.
As you talk about Bible views onmarriage, gender and life, your
(21:08):
kids may also say why won't Godlet people just do what they
want to do?
Well, there's a couple ofresponses to that.
One is he actually.
Does people just do what theywant to do?
Well, there's a coupleresponses to that.
One is he actually does let usdo what we want.
Like we get choices, we havefree will, but there are
consequences for steppingoutside of his will.
When my kids were growing upone of the other ways that I
(21:28):
would answer that question is,as they got a little bit older,
in middle school, I would sayhey, do you remember when you
wanted Snapchat in third grade?
And I said no, it wasn'tbecause I hated you and wanted
to make your life miserable.
It was because I knew thedangers that existed on Snapchat
, and I knew your little heartand mind weren't ready for that
(21:49):
yet, so I said no to protect you.
God has our best interest atheart when he creates a
parameter for our life.
He knows that sin is anentrapment, it will put us in
bondage, and he wants us to livein freedom, but he gives us
free choice.
I think the other thing we needto tackle here is you know, the
(22:11):
world always tells us followyour heart, and God doesn't say
that.
In fact, the Bible says inJeremiah that our heart is
deceitful.
We can be led astray by our ownself, and I mean just looking
over the course of my life.
I see how this happened in myown life Led astray with my own
(22:32):
heart, people I dated to, badchoices I make.
I saw it.
So we can't always just followour heart, especially if Jesus
is not filling that space.
So these are some talkingpoints to have with your kids.
The executive order has beenissued.
Let's see how it evolves.
(22:52):
Will it stand Policy or nopolicy?
I want to make sex changes forkids unthinkable.
I want to dig in and untanglethe manipulation that has been
happening in this space, allwhile loving others.
Well, I want us to let kids bekids again.
I want kids to look in themirror and say I'm going to love
(23:15):
me for me, I'm going to acceptmyself.
I want the churches I love somuch to rise up in this moment
and love LGBTQ kids and familiesin the best way.
Parents are hurting.
They're scared for their ownkids.
You know this whole show isabout gender and, honestly, we
(23:38):
have all made gender an idol.
I mean, I'm talking to youchurch too.
I mean, do we talk more aboutwomen being pastors than feeding
the poor?
That's a question for us tocheck our heart.
We've made gender an idol inthis world.
But guess what, at the end ofour life, when we're on our
deathbed, will it matter if weare male or female?
(24:00):
All this time and energy aroundgender roles pronouns policies,
the debates.
The Bible says we'll be groupedin two categories those who put
their faith in Jesus and thosewho did not.
Galatians 3.28 says there is nolonger Jew or Gentile, slave or
(24:22):
free, male or female, for youare all one in Christ Jesus.
One day, each of us will standbefore and give an account to
our creator, parents.
We are given these preciouskids and God entrusts us to lead
, guide and speak into them.
(24:42):
We don't always get it right.
We're flawed, but we will givean account to him one day for
the words and the path we've putour kids on.
If you follow the world, it'sgoing to lead to chaos.
It's going to lead to confusion.
It puts our kids down the wrongpath.
(25:02):
Listen if you seek Jesus, youread his word, you commit to him
.
You get to know his character.
You see false prophets whenthey happen.
Because you're reading the wordand you know what it says, you
will be guided by the HolySpirit with wisdom and guidance.
You will still mess up, but youwill feel the conviction of
(25:24):
going to your kid andapologizing.
When you do, step by step,he'll show you the way to model
love and truth in a broken world.
Please, let's pray for ourLGBTQ people and let's also be
happy that somebody is standingup and saying we're not going to
do sex reassignment surgerieson minors.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
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To support our work, make adonation at nexttalkorg.
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