April 11, 2025 • 45 mins
Brian Montgomery lost his 16-year-old son, Walker, to a sextortion scheme. He’s now on a mission to raise awareness, and we discuss practical ways we can put up guardrails to keep our kids safe.
KEEPING KIDS SAFE ONLINE
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast.
We are a nonprofit passionateabout keeping kids safe online.
We're learning together how tonavigate tech, culture and faith
with our kids.
We are back today with BrianMontgomery.
This is Walker's dad.
You guys know him.
He is not a stranger to theNext Talk podcast.
(00:22):
Brian, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
stranger to the Next Talk podcast.
Brian, how are you?
We're good, we're, you know.
Life just keeps on going on andwe're working and running kids
and doing all the things we werealways doing.
It just seems like a fasterpace every day.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
How's your health?
You're good.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Yeah, it's good.
So we went back for a checkup,I want to say two months ago,
and everything was clear.
They didn't see any.
All the tests didn't show anycancer regrowing.
So right now we're optimistic.
You know we got to go backevery three months for a checkup
, but right now, today, I cantell you what we feel a lot
(01:01):
better than we did a year ago.
If you remember, a year ago Iwas still.
I was right in the middle ofchemotherapy a year ago and it
was absolutely miserable and gotworse and worse with every
treatment.
So we're just thankful.
I'm thankful that I'm notfeeling that way again.
For those that have gonethrough it, they know it's boy,
(01:21):
it's tough.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Well, we had so many people praying for you and it's
truly answered prayers that youare here right now and doing so
well, and I just ask everybodyto continue to pray for those
healthy results every threemonths when you go get checked,
and let's keep on those prayersfor them.
Courtney and the kids are good.
(01:43):
You guys are busy Activities.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Everybody's great.
You guys are busy.
Activities, everybody's great.
You know we're just staying asbusy as we ever have been.
Caroline's doing great inschool.
She's, I mean, really just asuperstar and doing great.
And Bennett's all into footballand all into athletics.
And Sarah I think I was tellingyou offline, you know she's
become our little track star.
So we're we're having softballstartup in the fall.
(02:08):
They'll start practicing herein a month or so, but um, well,
it's just, if it's one thing,it's another.
We're just wide open, busy.
But yeah, we're enjoying it,it's going good.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, One thing I get asked too is are there any
updates on Walker's case?
Has anybody been arrested?
Do we know anything?
And I know you're probablylimited on what you could say,
but can you tell us anything?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
The generic answer is still that the FBI is very
confident we're going to make anarrest and somebody will be
held accountable.
We hope that's the case.
We're praying for that's thecase For the dads out there.
I know you can imagine all theemotion wrapped up in the idea
that there's somebody out thereresponsible for this, and well,
(02:49):
I'd ask you to pray for me inthat.
In that regard, that's a that'sa tough thing for me to have to
think about and I'll cross thatbridge when I get to it.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
We will be in prayer for you.
Today I want to talk about.
You know you've been so good ingoing out and raising awareness
and I know that you've beenbusy with your own kids and so
you're limited in how much youcan speak.
But you've also been inWashington DC working on COSA.
You've worked hands-on at thestate level with legislation,
(03:22):
walker's Law you know you'vebeen in the legislative circle
enough to kind of see it and youknow we talked like we're both
for all of that stuff.
But can you kind of speak into?
You know what you've learned inthat space, working in that
space.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, I think you know.
I guess let me speak to it froma standpoint of my personal
motivations.
I mean, I think that and Iusually say this if I'm in front
of lawmakers or speaking andtalking to some group about
legislative efforts is, you know, as a parent, before any of
this happened or even now, Idon't want, I'm not asking the
government to provide some lawthat just that, I think, is
(04:05):
going to protect every aspect ofrisk on the internet and
through technology.
I just don't think that'srealistic, it's not going to
happen that way.
I need a partner, I need thegovernment to give me tools and
to give me support in trying toprotect our kids and to
recognize the road we're on as asociety is dangerous, really
(04:27):
dangerous.
And so that's been my mindsetand I think most everybody that
I know that's working towards alegislative solution has got
that same idea.
And the reason I think that'simportant because there are some
lawmakers that their idea iswell, you just need to be a
better parent, you need to takeyour kids to church, you need to
(04:48):
have hard conversations, youneed to prohibit them from being
in places, they shouldn't beonline, and that'll solve the
problem.
And the reality is.
We know that's not the case.
That's an ignorant idea tothink that's the only way that
we can move forward.
And, like I've told you manytimes, I mean I put it into a
very similar context as puttingage limits on alcohol and
tobacco consumption.
(05:08):
At some point we realized thatthat was not healthy and that
parents needed some legislativesupport to move the behavior of
that demographic of people in acertain direction, and that's
the same thing we're asking forhere.
But so that's kind of mymindset.
You know, what I've learned isour legal system is more corrupt
(05:30):
than I could have thought itwas.
It's everybody's got an agendaand it's really more about.
I mean to put it in perspective, you know, last year, from what
I understand, meta and thegroups that's represented in
their legal lobby sector spentabout $90 million to lobby
(05:50):
against these legislativeefforts.
You know, I don't know if youlook at the amount of money that
we've spent, I say we've thelobby group that we've worked
with and it's like 12 to 15parent groups.
You know sets of parents thathave lobbied $90 million to
defeat that.
That tells you, I mean, howmuch money is at stake for these
(06:15):
people and it's just very hardto make any progress there.
I mean, you know, last year wewere the kids on safety act had
passed the Senate, I think 92 tothree.
I mean, let's think about that.
Ninety two votes in favor of alegislative effort in the Senate
.
This was, you know, biden was.
The Biden administration wasstill in effect.
(06:35):
We were still split in theSenate.
I mean it wasn't like that wasa majority conservative or, you
know, liberal Senate makeup.
It was bipartisan.
Everybody was in favor of it.
It gets over to the House andthey can't get it up for a vote.
And that's when we were in DClobbying for that.
And the week we're in DC, metadecides they're going to send
(06:57):
out their troops to tout somenew parental tools in their
software.
I mean, you're like the wholepurpose of that was just to
undercut the efforts we weremaking to make the House think
they didn't need to pass thatlegislative effort.
And we learn now that thosetools are not effective, they're
not being enforced, they're notworking, just like we knew they
(07:19):
wouldn't be if they weren'trequired to.
So it's a real corrupt system.
And the reality is that I don'tknow, I don't, I don't.
I'm in favor of legislationbecause I think it's the right
thing to do, and I think for usto have a sector that large that
is completely unregulated is isasinine.
It makes no sense whatsoever,and so I'm I'm in favor of it,
(07:42):
but I feel like it's a verytough system.
My optimism of gettingsomething moved is not as
optimistic as I once was.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
That really puts the solution I mean the true
solution in keeping our kidssafe in our home.
Really, I mean, we hope to haveI loved how you phrased it we
need a partner, we need apartner, we need a partner.
We need some assistance here inhelping keep our kids safe, for
sure, but the real solutionreally does fall in the home, on
the parents and the awareness,the advocacy, the prevention,
(08:16):
the conversations, therelationship, everything that
we've been talking about, and soI want to talk about a little
bit about what that looks like,and so I want to talk a little
bit about what that looks like,just practical things that you
think how we can keep our kidssafe.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yeah, I mean, I think at the core of that is
relationship, and while you werejust saying that, what I wanted
to say was the kids that haveengaged parents.
I think that's what Walker'sand our family, why it resonates
with your audience so much, isbecause most of your audience
are engaged parents that want tobe good parents.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Like you and Courtney .
Just like you and Courtney.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Like we are and like we were with Walker, and this
still happened.
But imagine the kids that don'thave that foundational family.
The roads that they can takethrough unregulated technology
is extremely dangerous.
And so I mean the people thatthink this is just, you know,
(09:16):
the families that, like I said,are engaged and connected and
they want to have a strong, youknow, safety net there in the
home.
It's not, I mean, it's this.
The reason for legislation isis much outside of the family
the parent, the kids that don'thave parents that are engaged.
They need help, they needprotection.
So, to circle all the way backto your question, you know, as a
(09:37):
family, what should we be doing?
And I think, to me, that thecore of that is relationship.
And you know, I think that Ican look back and think back to
the relationship that me andWalker had specifically.
We had a, I mean a fantasticrelationship.
We talked all the time.
I mean I never, I was never thebest friend dad.
(09:58):
I was always dad, you know, andwe were not to say that we didn
talk about things that that,you know, that were best friend
type conversations, but I wasstill, I tried to always be the
be the guy that for Walker thatwas there as a foundational, I
can count, he could count on me,he knew he was going to get it
(10:18):
straight and that's that's thekind of relationship we had.
What I probably missed is thata little bit more close-knit
connection that makes youcomfortable to have these kind
of conversations we're talkingabout today.
And you know, I don't think thathad anything to do with the
choices Walker made on the nightof all this happening.
(10:40):
I think that he got scared, Ithink that he recognized the
trap he had stepped into.
But at the same time, my pointis that foundational
relationship is where it has gotto start, because these are
hard conversations, these areuncomfortable conversations that
we're talking about havingespecially, especially, you know
(11:02):
, and it can, it can be between,you know, a mom and a son or
dad and a daughter, which dadand a daughter.
I wouldn't recommend that I tryto stay out of those
conversations and let Courtneyhandle them, but especially
father and son.
You know we want to, I want to,I've tried in the last three
years to to change that two anda half years, to change that um,
(11:23):
that relationship with.
To change that two and a halfyears, to change that um, that
relationship with with Bennettand I on being able to have a
closer conversation around someof these more uncomfortable
things.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I think that's why you resonate so well with our
audiences, because you know youdid have a great relationship
with Walker.
I mean, I see the huntingpictures and you guys were just
father, son, enjoying life, likeenjoying life, and you were
that foundational voice in hislife.
And I think that's why it doesresonate so well with us,
(11:54):
because we're engaged like youguys.
And that's not always fullproof that because Walker didn't
even it's almost like he didn'teven have an opportunity to
think through what was happeningbecause of all the emotions and
the predators knew that.
And I think that is what's soimportant to raise awareness
with our kids of that emotionalAnytime you can't think through
(12:18):
something and you're panicked.
You know that is the thing thatyou need to pause, because
their little brains they're notwired yet to pause and logically
think through what justhappened.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Well, you know, I really thought you know the
things that we Walker hadparticipated in a lot of you
know, with the outdoors andhunting specifically, he and I
have been together on a lot ofhunts and you know that if you
have never, if you're not ahunter and you've never been on
a hunt, you won't relate to this, but it's a reality.
That becomes a very high-stress.
(12:50):
Just everything slows way downwhen it comes down to the point
of you have an animal thatyou're going to shoot with a bow
or a gun or anything.
It changes your perspective onhow you see things, and so
Walker had been through a lot ofthose kinds of situations and
he understood how to, how tocontrol his emotions in those
situations.
(13:10):
I just think this was suchanother level that you know,
once it got to that point and Ithink Walker was smart enough
that he recognized that, okay,he I don't believe that Walker
didn't think that he could cometo us.
I think that Walker knew thatwhat he was looking at the next
morning, people that he knewwere going to see what this
(13:33):
person was telling him they weregoing to send, and I think that
, I just think it scared him.
I think that was something hejust could not bring himself to
face and he knew that wecouldn't do anything about it.
I mean, that's the reality herethat kids need to understand
and parents need to understand.
I don't know how many callsI've taken where they want to
know what to do.
You know this has been sent.
(13:54):
You know they've got thispicture or got this video the
bad guys.
What do we do?
Well, I mean, there's nothingyou can do.
I wish there was, but there'snothing that you can do about it
at that point, but prepare forwhat if it is released?
What if it is sent out?
I just think that realitystruck Walker that night and he,
(14:14):
he, he didn't know how tocontend with that much stress at
one time.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
It just makes my blood boil that that they target
innocent kids in this way.
You know and I'm anytime, I'malways sharing walker's story.
There's that piece, too, where,where, you know, the predator
said go steal the money fromyour dad.
And sweet walker, with all ofhis integrity, said I'm not
gonna like, I'm not gonna dothat, yeah and um, it's like
(14:41):
they knew the goodness in himand they manipulated it to.
I just.
It just infuriates me.
I did want to tell you, though,we did just recently have a
guest on our show for NationalCenter for Missing and Exploited
Children, and they were tellingme about a new tool to take it
(15:02):
down.
I don't know if you know whatit's called, but they've created
this extortion packet, whichhas been something that I've
been now sending parents to justas a what to do.
These are your steps, because Ithink, sometimes, too, we don't
know who to call, we don't knowwho to report.
Like you know, it's a frenzy ofoh my gosh, our kid has been a
(15:22):
victim, and now we know this,what do we do with it?
And so I do think we'reevolving in our education of
creating steps for parents iftheir kids fall prey to this,
but it's almost like that's justbeen developed since what
happened with Walker.
Like we're learning.
We're learning how to helpfamilies that are a victim of
(15:43):
this.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, and I think you know.
Back to your original questionis how do we prevent?
I mean that the way that we thebest thing we can do is you
know if I could go back in timeis educate Walker.
Okay, where do the?
What roads are you going downthat could lead to these kinds
of problems?
And I think the first thing thatis really difficult to get a
kid to understand is the dangerthat they're coming up against.
(16:10):
They don't really understandthat by just accepting a friend
request from somebody that theydon't know or by having what
seems like an innocentconversation, they don't
understand that they could be ingrave danger, like life and
death danger.
They don't understand that.
In a lot of my talks I'llusually say you know, if as a
parent, you wouldn't take atwo-year-old and put them on the
(16:31):
shoulder of a four-lane highway, and if you did, you could ask
them how much danger are you in?
They wouldn't know.
They don't understand.
They don't know what's going upand down that highway and they
don't have the capacity torecognize that hey, I'm fixing
to get run over and it's goingto be the end of my life.
And they don't have thecapacity to understand any of
that, which is why we preventthem from getting in the road.
(16:52):
Now, if I live in a cul-de-sacin a neighborhood, I may walk
down there with them and hangout with them in the edge of the
street, but I'm not going toturn them loose on an interstate
.
And that is the best way that Ican describe, although they
don't want to admit it.
I mean that's even worse,because a teenager is at a point
in life where they want to beindependent, they want to be on
their own, they want to be theone that calls the shots and
(17:14):
that puts them in more dangerbecause they think they know
when they really don't.
And as parents, just like thattwo-year-old, just like that
toddler, we're responsible forputting guardrails in place to
keep them from getting in thosekinds of situations.
And so, going back, if I couldgo back, I would educate Walker.
(17:34):
I would be more educated myself.
To begin with, because I saythat all the time.
If Walker would have heard oneof my talks at a school or at a
church, he would still be here,because he would have remembered
that he may have still fell forthe trap, because I can't tell
you how many kids where theparents have told our story to
their kids and two weeks laterthey have a son that did exactly
(17:55):
the same thing, but he didn'tgo as far as take his own life,
he went as far as sendingpictures being extorted for
money, and he goes to mom anddaddy and says, hey, I fell for
the same thing, Walker did Helpme, and so they recognize that
they're in danger, and so thatis apparent to me, Our
responsibility is to formulatethat relationship, make it so
(18:19):
that I can have those harderconversations and educate myself
on the dangers out there.
I mean because these things arenot obvious.
It seems innocent, and that'sthe whole point of the scam that
this particular one that Walkerfell for.
But there's all kinds of otherdifferent harmful things that
are happening that we just glossover, that are out there and we
(18:39):
just don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
So, talking about guardrails, and now you have
three kids, do you mind measking are they allowed to have
social media and what does thatlook like now?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
We just got Bennett an Instagram account.
He wants to.
He's playing football and hewants to be able to, you know,
post stats and all the stuffthat that they, you know they
want to do, and so we, he, he,just he's.
He'll be 16 in September, so uh, he.
So he just opened an Instagramaccount.
You know my philosophy.
I think that surprises a lot ofpeople that we still allow.
(19:14):
Sarah does not have any socialmedia.
She's 13.
I think it surprises peoplethat we would still allow that.
And I can't stop being a parentbecause this has happened and
you know, I think about it inthe context of preparation for
life.
I mean, this is going to behere.
This technology, in some formor fashion, is going to be a way
(19:36):
that we communicate, and if wetake this away from our kids, we
are setting them at a severedisadvantage socially and I just
don't think that's the rightapproach.
I think the right approach is,with anything that's dangerous
is to be well-educated.
My philosophies with Bennettspecifically, and that's the
thing I mean it can be socialmedia or it can be just the
(19:56):
Internet.
Are you going to cut them offcompletely from the Internet?
What about video games?
Are you going to cut them offcompletely from video games.
I mean, I'm not a fan of videogames, but that culture is
obviously an important activityfor them.
Their life changes.
Guess what I mean.
If you were to look back inhistory 100 years, they wouldn't
(20:17):
believe we talked on thetelephone in the 80s.
So I mean, it's just lifechanges.
But education is how we shouldmove forward with it, in my
opinion, and as a parent.
But education is how we shouldmove forward with it in my
opinion, and you know, as aparent, the number one thing I
think that we can do is set theexpectation.
That number one.
I recognize this is goodtechnology but it also can be
dangerous.
That's number one.
(20:37):
Number two is it's mine and I'mgoing to monitor it and we're
going to have conversationsabout it, and those are not
controversial conversations.
Those can be casualconversations and those are not
controversial conversations.
Those can be casualconversations.
But the third thing is, becauseit's dangerous and because it's
mine, I'm going to be payingattention to what's happening on
it the best I can.
And that's where I think thatyou know the legislative side
(20:59):
can go a long way towardshelping us as parents, because
there are not great solutionsout there.
From what I've seen, I've tried,I've tried, we've tried
Covenant Eyes I've used it.
It works okay.
We've just used the screen timeand family groups on iPhones it
(21:19):
works okay.
You just got to monitor it, yougot to pay attention, and when
something pops up that'ssuspicious, that you don't like
or that is obviously some kindof a breach in what you all have
agreed to, let's talk.
I mean, you're not in trouble,let's talk about it.
Why did you?
Why were you here?
What was going on here?
What were you talking about?
Who were you talking to?
Just some basic questions, andI think that goes a long way
(21:39):
towards kids saying, okay, it,it at least gives me enough
pause to know that there aredangerous things.
At least my dad thinks there'sdangerous things happening here,
whether I agree or not.
And I'm going to have to answersome questions, depending on
what I do and where I go andwhat I say.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Yeah, I think that's so the guardrails you're putting
in place with social media.
And I, I mean, you know, Iagree with you wholeheartedly on
, yeah, delay.
I mean don't give young kidssocial media.
We don't advocate for that, butI do believe it is a life skill
that we have to teach thembefore they leave our home, and
(22:15):
I think a lot of us miss thewindow because we're just afraid
of it.
And so I think it's very wiseof you and you can implement it
in stages of you and you canimplement it in stages.
So like, for example, your sonit's one social media account,
he didn't download four.
You didn't say, okay, you canhave social media.
Now you have Snapchat, tiktok,all it's one at a time.
(22:37):
And I'm sure there's nowcertain guardrails just about
that, like a private account,who he's allowing to follow him,
who he's corresponding with.
There's other guardrailconversations around that now,
because of what we know.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, and you know, I think what we're seeing now is
there's a, there's a recognition.
Obviously, I know that we're aspecial case because of the life
that, because of where?
Because of losing Walker.
But you know the conversationof the day.
Bennett said, well, such andand such tried to fight, has
tried to follow me multipletimes.
Do y'all know this person?
We're like, no, we don't know.
So it's, it's, it's starting towork.
(23:14):
I guess, is what I want youwant your audience to hear me
say.
Is that that constantconversation, and not always
about you know, just, I mean, wetry not to make everything
about Walker and about the lifethat we're living now.
We want it to be.
You know, what are you seeing?
What team is doing this?
Who got traded, who's moving,who's leaving?
You know that's what he'sinterested in today and Sarah's
(23:35):
interested in bacon.
So I mean, she has a Pinterestaccount.
Look, all of these have somedegree of danger associated with
them.
But the main thing is a parentnumber one recognize it's
dangerous, don't bury your headin the sand.
I mean, that's, that's areality.
And, um, if you think that it'snot dangerous, you're just not
(23:58):
right.
And I can point to so manydifferent, different things
besides this that happened toWalker.
Uh, I think you know, if Iwould have been a parent hearing
this before this happened to us, I would have said none of my
kids would.
They may get in trouble, butthey're never going to do what
Walker did.
They're never going to taketheir own life.
To those people that say thatabout their kids, I know you
(24:19):
love your kids and I knowthey're great kids, but I'm
telling you they were not moretrustworthy than Walker.
They weren't.
And that's not me, that's notme, just that's not me Just
trying to.
I mean, I love Walker and Ilove my family, but I'm telling
you what kind of kid he was.
I'm telling you that, as aperson that would say that I
would never consider, would havesaid I would never consider
(24:42):
suicide, and I'm telling youthat.
Not that I've ever given itlike, but there's been points in
this journey where I just wishI was not here, and that's just
a fact.
And those are short lived,those have been very short
stints, but I'm just telling youthat you're not going to
convince me that each and everyone of us are not capable of
(25:04):
that thought, of that walkingdown that road, and that's just
one aspect.
That's not, you know it'sconsidered the drug deals that
are happening, the humantrafficking that are happening.
All I mean there is asmorgasbord of things that are
happening in technology thatyour kids have the ability to
fall into.
So recognize it is dangerous.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
I loved what you said there, because when I share
Walker's story at our events, Ishare it in the context of you
can never say never.
You can never say your kidswould not do this, because Brian
and Courtney were fantasticparents, are fantastic parents,
right, doing all the rightthings, and Walker was still a
(25:47):
victim of this.
So we need to switch ourthinking.
We just can't, we cannot fallinto the trap of saying our kids
would never do that, our kidswould never do that because you
know we're active and involvedor whatever.
I just think it's such acritical point that good parents
recognize that.
So I want to talk more a littlebit about these guardrails in
place.
So you know one of theguidelines that we've talked
(26:09):
about before at Next Talk nophones in bedrooms or bathrooms.
How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I'd say that's probably the number one thing
that I have thought about andenforced since Walker's death is
I know that if that phone wouldhave been in my room that night
, walker would still be here andthere was no reason for him to
have it.
There was no, there's no validreason for any kid to have their
(26:36):
phone past bedtime.
Now, everybody may.
In some homes everybody staysup till 11 o'clock at night.
That's fine.
But when everybody goes to bedthe phone comes with the parent.
It's just a good way to.
It's just a good way to handleit, not to say the thing.
I mean I've had parents say,hey, that's not going to fix it
all.
I understand it's not.
That's not what I'm trying todo.
(26:58):
We're trying to put enoughthings in place that there's
some red flag that occurs ifsomething bad happens and to
discourage activities that canlead to that.
And I think we've talked aboutit here in the past.
We've talked about pornographyand that was something that was
on Walker's phone.
A 16-year-old I've said it many,many times that if it had been
(27:23):
that accessible when I was thatage, you know most men can
relate that.
Our generation it was typicallymagazines and either you had to
have a buddy that had one, oryou had to go to the store and
buy one.
Both of those were really hardto do, but that was.
The worst case scenario thenwas that you saw things that you
shouldn't have been seeing.
You had a warped perception of,you know, a relationship with a
(27:46):
woman.
Those were bad things.
But most men, I'm going to tellyou and they may not admit it,
they may admit it, I don't know,but most men have, have had
some participation inpornography at some point in
their history.
That's just a fact.
The statistics say that.
And you know, this activity thatwe think of as innocent today,
(28:07):
it's not.
It wasn't innocent in our day,but it's dangerous now.
That's different.
It's different in participatingin something that causes you
poor habits and poor perception.
But then you take the next step.
We're in that next step now towhere it leads to things that
can be dangerous.
We're in that next step now towhere it leads to things that
(28:29):
can be dangerous, and that'swhere I think the no phones in
bedrooms and bathrooms,especially for young teenage
boys, is really important.
Because you take the phone fromthose areas, it's less likely
for that activity to happen.
And I think Walker just sawwhat he was doing that night as
an extension of that behavior.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I want to say I agree with everything you said, yes,
and I do want to say, though,you know we have seen cases
where parents have thatguardrail in place and the kids
still go sneak at night and getit and get into trouble Like
there's.
I know it's not a hundredpercent foolproof, but, like you
said, it takes an extra step.
It's another guardrail put inplace that could maybe help in a
(29:13):
situation, and I think that'sreally important.
It's it's our job to createthese guardrails, Like you said.
I do want to talk about thepornography aspect a little bit
more, because I know we've we'vedone a show on that since
Walker show about pornographyand how you know you've really
been outspoken about how youbelieve it desensitizes these
(29:35):
kids to where sharing nudes ortaking pictures of themselves
like it almost creates a blurryline in that, because they they
see it so much, they see porn somuch, and it's such a part of
their culture.
Even if they're not seeing it,they're hearing about it.
You know in graphic detailabout what somebody else watched
the night before.
So you have a young teen boyand he's on Instagram and he's a
(30:01):
football player.
So what does that look like,that conversation between you
and your son about pornographyLike what does that look like?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
The first thing that I think the most difficult part
is to bring it up, because it'sembarrassing and it's, you know,
the idea that he would want tolook at that.
You know, it's justembarrassing and I think that
you know any other parent orteen would be in that same
(30:31):
situation.
But once that subject has beenbrought up and you're I mean
it's not just directly relatedto pornography, but just a
conversation around sex, aconversation around girls, a
conversation around how to treatgirls and what to think about
and you know all of thosedifferent things.
Obviously, teen boys aretalking between themselves.
I don't know this has changed alot, even from generation to
(30:51):
generation, in terms of thereluctance of a parent to have
this kind of conversation with akid, with one of their kids.
I mean, it is what it is and weall recognize it.
But you know, for me it's aboutjust being transparent and
saying, hey, all right, givethem some time.
Hey, in 30 minutes we're goingto talk about this.
(31:12):
Whenever we get in a truck,there's a conversation I want
you to have around sex, and thatkind of gives some time for
that conversation to sink in andsay, okay, I'm going to have to
have this conversation with mydaddy, and it's not just you
don't just spring it on them.
You know it's not just spur ofthe moment, but I think it goes
around asking a lot of questionshave you seen anything
(31:32):
inappropriate lately?
No, you know, that's generallywhat you're going to get, and I
don't get a lot of.
I don't think you're going toget a lot of feedback.
So the fact that they might notbe responding but they're
listening and so that justfurther opens the door and helps
, and I think a lot of it isjust common sense is listen.
(31:54):
God created men and women and Ithink I told you before.
You know, I had a conversation,you know, when I had a.
I had a.
When I have meetings or eventswhere I speak to kids, I'll
about boys specifically.
We relate it to a trap.
I use a hog trap in mypresentation.
I say hogs have a blind spot.
(32:15):
They don't look up.
So our trap is elevated.
I say boys, what is your blindspot?
They all look around.
I say well, your blind spot isthat you have a physical need
for sex.
It's physical.
It's like you desire to eat.
That's natural.
It's the way God made you.
Of course, they all snicker andeverybody looks at each other.
But I try to lighten that alittle bit by saying, hey, we're
(32:37):
all here because somebody hadsex.
Everybody, even your teachers,even your coaches, even your mom
and daddy, everybody's herebecause somebody had sex.
So it's a fact of life and it'sembarrassing to talk about it.
But I think the more that wecan be creative in having those
conversations in that way, thelighter we can make of the
pornography, because that's acomplete change in our culture,
(33:02):
in how accessible it is to see,visualize and see two people
having sex, and it fulfills, forteenage boys especially.
It fulfills that sexual, thatneed, that physical need for sex
, but it but it fulfills it verytemporarily.
And that sin that then youstart to engage in changes your
(33:24):
personality, changes how you seeother people, changes your
reliance on other people, and soit's.
You know, starting thatconversation is the most
difficult part, in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
It's almost like you just have to have the courage to
start the conversation and Ithink oftentimes, like stories
like Walker's or other storiesthat we hear that have ended so
tragically, maybe it gives usthe push to be like, okay, I
(33:55):
need to have this conversation,even though it's it may be
awkward at first.
I know for me and my kids likethe first couple conversations
were totally awkward, but thenit's like we moved into this
really cool phase where it's notas awkward and the bandaid has
been ripped off and you can evenjoke sometimes about it.
You know you get into thisspace where you're joking with
(34:17):
them about their culture and butalso then you're stepping in
and being like wait a minute,that's very dangerous.
You know you're, you're, you'rebeing able to do both in that
guiding, guidance, foundational.
You know, parent role as well.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Well, and I think that you know the the problem we
have as a, as a society, isthere are some major behavioral
characteristics that arechanging.
I mean the the reproductiverate is below two per family now
, like 1.8 per family.
So that means that we're notreplacing who's dying.
(34:51):
Let's just put that as ageneral statement.
It means our population isdeclining.
Well, that's being attributedto the accessibility.
I mean, I tell the kids in themeeting I say look, god gave you
boys this physical need for sexfor a lot of reasons.
I mean predominantly so you cancompete for a mate.
I said, you know, so thatyou'll be competitive.
(35:12):
All the things that you'regoing to be as a man are going
to be driven by this physicalneed.
You have to engage in sex.
Well, what's happening now isthat they're fulfilling that
physical need because for a manit is physical, it's a physical
act, and I know that I alwayssay that there's a variation in
(35:32):
people, everybody's different.
But I'm just saying as ageneral statement, the
predominance of men is justabout the physical act.
We have access now throughpornography at a really
high-quality physical act, moreso even than the actual act in
many cases, and so you havegirls that are trying to live up
(35:53):
to what boys are seeing onlineand you have boys that are
having that expectation of thesegirls that they'd be like what
it looks like online and at theend of the day, they're both
being fulfilled in some kind ofway and not reproducing, not
having kids, not having the sameattachments to a relationship.
All those things are effectsthat we don't know how that
(36:16):
stuff is going to end.
We don't know as a society, asa culture, what is that going to
mean to the human species longterm.
It's new.
This is relatively new in theexpanse of human.
I'm going to use the wordevolution is how we have
developed as mankind, how Godhas intended us to be.
This is new within the last 20years that we had this kind of
(36:39):
expectation of content, and it'svery scary where it could lead.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
It's impacting our relations and our intimacy, you
know, because, like you weresaying, for men generally it's
very physical and I think forwomen it's generally more I
don't know how to put it likeromantic, like we've got the
emotions involved in it right.
Yes, it's an emotional, romantickind of thing and I think that
(37:09):
and that's again a generalstatement I know there are
different people that would seethat differently, but I think
you know God brings those twotogether in a marriage for the
man to understand the woman andthe woman to understand the man
and for this beautiful thing tohappen.
But what has been happening isthe porn has been so captivating
(37:31):
it and making it even morephysical, I think, than men were
even wired for that.
That the objectification andthe way women are treated, and I
mean it is just a rot in ourworld.
It's a rot.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
That's a great way to put it.
Yep, that's exactly right.
And imagine these kids arestarting now, at 10, 11, 12
years old, of observing thiscontent.
And I mean it has no choice butto change.
Because I mean you think abouta relationship between a husband
and a wife, or a boyfriend andgirlfriend, for that matter.
I mean a lot of thosecommitments, a lot of the things
(38:07):
that it takes to make arelationship.
I think about it sometimes andnone of us are in our marriage
relationship just based on whatwe can get out of it.
But you take away a few of thethings that we rely on in that
relationship and all of a sudden, the relationship gets really,
really difficult and we're at apoint.
So what that does that forcesus to provide okay, my wife
(38:31):
expects this out of me.
My wife says, okay, Brianexpects this out of me.
So we're going to fulfill thoseexpectations in order to
continue to make thatrelationship strong and help it
to grow.
Because what's that say when Isay that I will fulfill
something in our relationshipthat you're counting on?
It says I love you.
It says I care about you.
It says I value thisrelationship.
Well, now we're starting to say, well, hang on, my wife don't
(38:54):
have to fulfill this in ourrelationship.
I can get it instantaneouslythrough technology, and so that
means I can still be a jerk.
That means I can go to work allday and not come home.
That means that I can put allof my personal needs above hers,
and that's what our kids arelearning through this.
Set aside all the dangerousthings that happened to Walker,
(39:15):
that's just one aspect of it.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
It's a selfishness, it's all about you.
It's all about you and I thinkthat's a big conversation with
kids too is that when you maybeare using porn to masturbate or
whatever, while you're lookingat porn, it's all about you.
And so when you enter into amarriage, the way it's looking
at porn, it's all about you.
And so when you enter into amarriage, the way it's intended
to be, it's supposed to be aboutfulfilling your spouse.
(39:41):
You know, for men it's supposedto be about fulfilling the
woman's need there and so.
But there's a selfishnessbecause it's all about you,
because that's how it's been forthe last so many years, and I
think you're right, the youngerand younger it gets, like it's
just we don't know how this isgoing to end, because now we've
got, we get calls that yet asyoung as five years old being
(40:02):
exposed to pornography and like,what do I do with that?
And I mean these are we've seena huge uptick in the last, you
know, probably five years, evenfor the younger and younger kids
getting exposed to porn.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
So it's a conversation we cannot skip with
our kids in your audiencespecifically if they recognize
something is dangerous for theirkids, if they truly say, okay,
(40:39):
yeah, this is something I needto be paying attention to, they
will do that.
And so I think that's the firststep is recognize those dangers
, and then after that, there's avariety of ways to practically
work through it, and I think forevery family it can be a little
bit different.
I don't want to be the parentthat sits down and says, okay,
we're going to have our30-minute weekly meeting about
(40:59):
technology.
I think that becomes way toorobotic.
I think that, going back to, Ithink it's more driven by the
relationship and strengtheningthat relationship, and I think
for me it's turned into okay,there's things that my family
does that I may not be thatinterested in, but I'm going to
(41:20):
act interested in order tofoster that relationship so that
I can have those conversations.
And I say act interested.
It's not like I'm notinterested, but I'm saying
there's things that I'm moreinterested in than others, and
so putting forth that effortshows them hey, daddy really
does love me and he wants to, hewants the best for me, and so,
therefore, I'm going to givethis time that he's trying to
(41:40):
ask of me and work through thiswith him.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
And.
I think so many times you know,traditionally in my home and a
lot of our homes, I was pickingthe kids up from school and I
was with them more and I washaving the conversations.
But as we have learned to talkmore as a family and I've seen
(42:03):
Matt grow more involved andengaged with our kids through
these difficult conversations,it has just it's huge to have
the dad voice in the homespeaking into these issues.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, and to do that point, I mean I certainly don't
want to overstate my involvement, because Courtney is the rock
when it comes to that.
I mean she is, you know, she asfar as just participating, and
I think if the kids havesomething hard, they go to her
and that's look, it takes a teamand you know, and there's
certain aspects, like I said, Idon't want to have any of those
(42:37):
conversations with my daughter.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
So we talked about some guardrails, you know,
definitely like private accounts, making sure they know who
their friend requesting orspeaking to on Instagram and
social media.
No phones in bedrooms orbathrooms talking to kids about
porn media.
No phones in bedrooms orbathrooms talking to kids about
porn.
Anything else that's like,before we go today, that you're
like I want to hit on this too.
(43:00):
I want to like like get this inthere on a, on a guardrail that
you have.
That's really important.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I don't think from.
I think, going back, I thinkwe've kind of hit everything
we're talked with.
That that's important from aguardrail standpoint.
I think that if I could haveone other aspect that I think is
important, it's having it inour churches and in our schools,
those organizations engaging inthese issues.
I still think we're living in aworld where those organizations
(43:30):
are trying to pretend likethese problems don't exist and I
think that's a mistake.
And I don't have any particularfirst thing, because I've
spoken in a bunch of churches,I've spoken in a bunch of
schools, but I think that it'sreal easy for this not to be a
(43:52):
point of conversationsystematically and I think
that's a mistake.
Like we need to be bringingthose things to the forefront.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Well, like you said at the very beginning, like this
is not something that I thoughtwould be our story, and so you
don't think about it until ithappens to you.
And that's why you're sooutspoken, because you're like
wake up, I don't want this tohappen to you guys.
Brian, thank you for being here.
Always good talking to you.
Please keep us posted on youknow, Walker's case and and your
(44:20):
health and whatever we can doto come alongside of you and
help your family.
We're always here.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Look we're.
I mean again, I know we'vealways said it, but your, your
audience and y'all as a familyhave been so supportive of us
and look we, we just appreciateit.
I don't think we could havemade this, uh, could have made
it without without that impact,without y'all praying for us and
being there for us and givingus an opportunity to speak and
talk about things, and it's um,you know that.
(44:46):
That's what.
That's what it gives you hopein the world that we live in
that there are people that stillcare and the people that are
still engaged in fighting thefight, same fight that we're
fighting, and so I appreciatey'all for that.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, we're not going anywhere, we're in it together
for sure.
Thanks a lot.
Thanks a lot, brian.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
Thank you.
Next Talk is a 501c3 nonprofitkeeping kids safe online.
To support our work, make adonation at nexttalkorg.
Next Talk resources are notintended to replace the advice
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You are advised to consult aqualified expert for your
(45:26):
personal treatment plan.
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast.
We are a nonprofit passionateabout keeping kids safe online.
We're learning together how tonavigate tech, culture and faith
with our kids.
We are back today with BrianMontgomery.
This is Walker's dad.
You guys know him.
He is not a stranger to theNext Talk podcast.
(00:22):
Brian, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
stranger to the Next Talk podcast.
Brian, how are you?
We're good, we're, you know.
Life just keeps on going on andwe're working and running kids
and doing all the things we werealways doing.
It just seems like a fasterpace every day.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
How's your health?
You're good.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Yeah, it's good.
So we went back for a checkup,I want to say two months ago,
and everything was clear.
They didn't see any.
All the tests didn't show anycancer regrowing.
So right now we're optimistic.
You know we got to go backevery three months for a checkup
, but right now, today, I cantell you what we feel a lot
(01:01):
better than we did a year ago.
If you remember, a year ago Iwas still.
I was right in the middle ofchemotherapy a year ago and it
was absolutely miserable and gotworse and worse with every
treatment.
So we're just thankful.
I'm thankful that I'm notfeeling that way again.
For those that have gonethrough it, they know it's boy,
(01:21):
it's tough.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Well, we had so many people praying for you and it's
truly answered prayers that youare here right now and doing so
well, and I just ask everybodyto continue to pray for those
healthy results every threemonths when you go get checked,
and let's keep on those prayersfor them.
Courtney and the kids are good.
(01:43):
You guys are busy Activities.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Everybody's great.
You guys are busy.
Activities, everybody's great.
You know we're just staying asbusy as we ever have been.
Caroline's doing great inschool.
She's, I mean, really just asuperstar and doing great.
And Bennett's all into footballand all into athletics.
And Sarah I think I was tellingyou offline, you know she's
become our little track star.
So we're we're having softballstartup in the fall.
(02:08):
They'll start practicing herein a month or so, but um, well,
it's just, if it's one thing,it's another.
We're just wide open, busy.
But yeah, we're enjoying it,it's going good.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, One thing I get asked too is are there any
updates on Walker's case?
Has anybody been arrested?
Do we know anything?
And I know you're probablylimited on what you could say,
but can you tell us anything?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
The generic answer is still that the FBI is very
confident we're going to make anarrest and somebody will be
held accountable.
We hope that's the case.
We're praying for that's thecase For the dads out there.
I know you can imagine all theemotion wrapped up in the idea
that there's somebody out thereresponsible for this, and well,
(02:49):
I'd ask you to pray for me inthat.
In that regard, that's a that'sa tough thing for me to have to
think about and I'll cross thatbridge when I get to it.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
We will be in prayer for you.
Today I want to talk about.
You know you've been so good ingoing out and raising awareness
and I know that you've beenbusy with your own kids and so
you're limited in how much youcan speak.
But you've also been inWashington DC working on COSA.
You've worked hands-on at thestate level with legislation,
(03:22):
walker's Law you know you'vebeen in the legislative circle
enough to kind of see it and youknow we talked like we're both
for all of that stuff.
But can you kind of speak into?
You know what you've learned inthat space, working in that
space.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, I think you know.
I guess let me speak to it froma standpoint of my personal
motivations.
I mean, I think that and Iusually say this if I'm in front
of lawmakers or speaking andtalking to some group about
legislative efforts is, you know, as a parent, before any of
this happened or even now, Idon't want, I'm not asking the
government to provide some lawthat just that, I think, is
(04:05):
going to protect every aspect ofrisk on the internet and
through technology.
I just don't think that'srealistic, it's not going to
happen that way.
I need a partner, I need thegovernment to give me tools and
to give me support in trying toprotect our kids and to
recognize the road we're on as asociety is dangerous, really
(04:27):
dangerous.
And so that's been my mindsetand I think most everybody that
I know that's working towards alegislative solution has got
that same idea.
And the reason I think that'simportant because there are some
lawmakers that their idea iswell, you just need to be a
better parent, you need to takeyour kids to church, you need to
(04:48):
have hard conversations, youneed to prohibit them from being
in places, they shouldn't beonline, and that'll solve the
problem.
And the reality is.
We know that's not the case.
That's an ignorant idea tothink that's the only way that
we can move forward.
And, like I've told you manytimes, I mean I put it into a
very similar context as puttingage limits on alcohol and
tobacco consumption.
(05:08):
At some point we realized thatthat was not healthy and that
parents needed some legislativesupport to move the behavior of
that demographic of people in acertain direction, and that's
the same thing we're asking forhere.
But so that's kind of mymindset.
You know, what I've learned isour legal system is more corrupt
(05:30):
than I could have thought itwas.
It's everybody's got an agendaand it's really more about.
I mean to put it in perspective, you know, last year, from what
I understand, meta and thegroups that's represented in
their legal lobby sector spentabout $90 million to lobby
(05:50):
against these legislativeefforts.
You know, I don't know if youlook at the amount of money that
we've spent, I say we've thelobby group that we've worked
with and it's like 12 to 15parent groups.
You know sets of parents thathave lobbied $90 million to
defeat that.
That tells you, I mean, howmuch money is at stake for these
(06:15):
people and it's just very hardto make any progress there.
I mean, you know, last year wewere the kids on safety act had
passed the Senate, I think 92 tothree.
I mean, let's think about that.
Ninety two votes in favor of alegislative effort in the Senate
.
This was, you know, biden was.
The Biden administration wasstill in effect.
(06:35):
We were still split in theSenate.
I mean it wasn't like that wasa majority conservative or, you
know, liberal Senate makeup.
It was bipartisan.
Everybody was in favor of it.
It gets over to the House andthey can't get it up for a vote.
And that's when we were in DClobbying for that.
And the week we're in DC, metadecides they're going to send
(06:57):
out their troops to tout somenew parental tools in their
software.
I mean, you're like the wholepurpose of that was just to
undercut the efforts we weremaking to make the House think
they didn't need to pass thatlegislative effort.
And we learn now that thosetools are not effective, they're
not being enforced, they're notworking, just like we knew they
(07:19):
wouldn't be if they weren'trequired to.
So it's a real corrupt system.
And the reality is that I don'tknow, I don't, I don't.
I'm in favor of legislationbecause I think it's the right
thing to do, and I think for usto have a sector that large that
is completely unregulated is isasinine.
It makes no sense whatsoever,and so I'm I'm in favor of it,
(07:42):
but I feel like it's a verytough system.
My optimism of gettingsomething moved is not as
optimistic as I once was.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
That really puts the solution I mean the true
solution in keeping our kidssafe in our home.
Really, I mean, we hope to haveI loved how you phrased it we
need a partner, we need apartner, we need a partner.
We need some assistance here inhelping keep our kids safe, for
sure, but the real solutionreally does fall in the home, on
the parents and the awareness,the advocacy, the prevention,
(08:16):
the conversations, therelationship, everything that
we've been talking about, and soI want to talk about a little
bit about what that looks like,and so I want to talk a little
bit about what that looks like,just practical things that you
think how we can keep our kidssafe.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yeah, I mean, I think at the core of that is
relationship, and while you werejust saying that, what I wanted
to say was the kids that haveengaged parents.
I think that's what Walker'sand our family, why it resonates
with your audience so much, isbecause most of your audience
are engaged parents that want tobe good parents.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Like you and Courtney .
Just like you and Courtney.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Like we are and like we were with Walker, and this
still happened.
But imagine the kids that don'thave that foundational family.
The roads that they can takethrough unregulated technology
is extremely dangerous.
And so I mean the people thatthink this is just, you know,
(09:16):
the families that, like I said,are engaged and connected and
they want to have a strong, youknow, safety net there in the
home.
It's not, I mean, it's this.
The reason for legislation isis much outside of the family
the parent, the kids that don'thave parents that are engaged.
They need help, they needprotection.
So, to circle all the way backto your question, you know, as a
(09:37):
family, what should we be doing?
And I think, to me, that thecore of that is relationship.
And you know, I think that Ican look back and think back to
the relationship that me andWalker had specifically.
We had a, I mean a fantasticrelationship.
We talked all the time.
I mean I never, I was never thebest friend dad.
(09:58):
I was always dad, you know, andwe were not to say that we didn
talk about things that that,you know, that were best friend
type conversations, but I wasstill, I tried to always be the
be the guy that for Walker thatwas there as a foundational, I
can count, he could count on me,he knew he was going to get it
(10:18):
straight and that's that's thekind of relationship we had.
What I probably missed is thata little bit more close-knit
connection that makes youcomfortable to have these kind
of conversations we're talkingabout today.
And you know, I don't think thathad anything to do with the
choices Walker made on the nightof all this happening.
(10:40):
I think that he got scared, Ithink that he recognized the
trap he had stepped into.
But at the same time, my pointis that foundational
relationship is where it has gotto start, because these are
hard conversations, these areuncomfortable conversations that
we're talking about havingespecially, especially, you know
(11:02):
, and it can, it can be between,you know, a mom and a son or
dad and a daughter, which dadand a daughter.
I wouldn't recommend that I tryto stay out of those
conversations and let Courtneyhandle them, but especially
father and son.
You know we want to, I want to,I've tried in the last three
years to to change that two anda half years, to change that um,
(11:23):
that relationship with.
To change that two and a halfyears, to change that um, that
relationship with with Bennettand I on being able to have a
closer conversation around someof these more uncomfortable
things.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I think that's why you resonate so well with our
audiences, because you know youdid have a great relationship
with Walker.
I mean, I see the huntingpictures and you guys were just
father, son, enjoying life, likeenjoying life, and you were
that foundational voice in hislife.
And I think that's why it doesresonate so well with us,
(11:54):
because we're engaged like youguys.
And that's not always fullproof that because Walker didn't
even it's almost like he didn'teven have an opportunity to
think through what was happeningbecause of all the emotions and
the predators knew that.
And I think that is what's soimportant to raise awareness
with our kids of that emotionalAnytime you can't think through
(12:18):
something and you're panicked.
You know that is the thing thatyou need to pause, because
their little brains they're notwired yet to pause and logically
think through what justhappened.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Well, you know, I really thought you know the
things that we Walker hadparticipated in a lot of you
know, with the outdoors andhunting specifically, he and I
have been together on a lot ofhunts and you know that if you
have never, if you're not ahunter and you've never been on
a hunt, you won't relate to this, but it's a reality.
That becomes a very high-stress.
(12:50):
Just everything slows way downwhen it comes down to the point
of you have an animal thatyou're going to shoot with a bow
or a gun or anything.
It changes your perspective onhow you see things, and so
Walker had been through a lot ofthose kinds of situations and
he understood how to, how tocontrol his emotions in those
situations.
(13:10):
I just think this was suchanother level that you know,
once it got to that point and Ithink Walker was smart enough
that he recognized that, okay,he I don't believe that Walker
didn't think that he could cometo us.
I think that Walker knew thatwhat he was looking at the next
morning, people that he knewwere going to see what this
(13:33):
person was telling him they weregoing to send, and I think that
, I just think it scared him.
I think that was something hejust could not bring himself to
face and he knew that wecouldn't do anything about it.
I mean, that's the reality herethat kids need to understand
and parents need to understand.
I don't know how many callsI've taken where they want to
know what to do.
You know this has been sent.
(13:54):
You know they've got thispicture or got this video the
bad guys.
What do we do?
Well, I mean, there's nothingyou can do.
I wish there was, but there'snothing that you can do about it
at that point, but prepare forwhat if it is released?
What if it is sent out?
I just think that realitystruck Walker that night and he,
(14:14):
he, he didn't know how tocontend with that much stress at
one time.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
It just makes my blood boil that that they target
innocent kids in this way.
You know and I'm anytime, I'malways sharing walker's story.
There's that piece, too, where,where, you know, the predator
said go steal the money fromyour dad.
And sweet walker, with all ofhis integrity, said I'm not
gonna like, I'm not gonna dothat, yeah and um, it's like
(14:41):
they knew the goodness in himand they manipulated it to.
I just.
It just infuriates me.
I did want to tell you, though,we did just recently have a
guest on our show for NationalCenter for Missing and Exploited
Children, and they were tellingme about a new tool to take it
(15:02):
down.
I don't know if you know whatit's called, but they've created
this extortion packet, whichhas been something that I've
been now sending parents to justas a what to do.
These are your steps, because Ithink, sometimes, too, we don't
know who to call, we don't knowwho to report.
Like you know, it's a frenzy ofoh my gosh, our kid has been a
(15:22):
victim, and now we know this,what do we do with it?
And so I do think we'reevolving in our education of
creating steps for parents iftheir kids fall prey to this,
but it's almost like that's justbeen developed since what
happened with Walker.
Like we're learning.
We're learning how to helpfamilies that are a victim of
(15:43):
this.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, and I think you know.
Back to your original questionis how do we prevent?
I mean that the way that we thebest thing we can do is you
know if I could go back in timeis educate Walker.
Okay, where do the?
What roads are you going downthat could lead to these kinds
of problems?
And I think the first thing thatis really difficult to get a
kid to understand is the dangerthat they're coming up against.
(16:10):
They don't really understandthat by just accepting a friend
request from somebody that theydon't know or by having what
seems like an innocentconversation, they don't
understand that they could be ingrave danger, like life and
death danger.
They don't understand that.
In a lot of my talks I'llusually say you know, if as a
parent, you wouldn't take atwo-year-old and put them on the
(16:31):
shoulder of a four-lane highway, and if you did, you could ask
them how much danger are you in?
They wouldn't know.
They don't understand.
They don't know what's going upand down that highway and they
don't have the capacity torecognize that hey, I'm fixing
to get run over and it's goingto be the end of my life.
And they don't have thecapacity to understand any of
that, which is why we preventthem from getting in the road.
(16:52):
Now, if I live in a cul-de-sacin a neighborhood, I may walk
down there with them and hangout with them in the edge of the
street, but I'm not going toturn them loose on an interstate
.
And that is the best way that Ican describe, although they
don't want to admit it.
I mean that's even worse,because a teenager is at a point
in life where they want to beindependent, they want to be on
their own, they want to be theone that calls the shots and
(17:14):
that puts them in more dangerbecause they think they know
when they really don't.
And as parents, just like thattwo-year-old, just like that
toddler, we're responsible forputting guardrails in place to
keep them from getting in thosekinds of situations.
And so, going back, if I couldgo back, I would educate Walker.
(17:34):
I would be more educated myself.
To begin with, because I saythat all the time.
If Walker would have heard oneof my talks at a school or at a
church, he would still be here,because he would have remembered
that he may have still fell forthe trap, because I can't tell
you how many kids where theparents have told our story to
their kids and two weeks laterthey have a son that did exactly
(17:55):
the same thing, but he didn'tgo as far as take his own life,
he went as far as sendingpictures being extorted for
money, and he goes to mom anddaddy and says, hey, I fell for
the same thing, Walker did Helpme, and so they recognize that
they're in danger, and so thatis apparent to me, Our
responsibility is to formulatethat relationship, make it so
(18:19):
that I can have those harderconversations and educate myself
on the dangers out there.
I mean because these things arenot obvious.
It seems innocent, and that'sthe whole point of the scam that
this particular one that Walkerfell for.
But there's all kinds of otherdifferent harmful things that
are happening that we just glossover, that are out there and we
(18:39):
just don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
So, talking about guardrails, and now you have
three kids, do you mind measking are they allowed to have
social media and what does thatlook like now?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
We just got Bennett an Instagram account.
He wants to.
He's playing football and hewants to be able to, you know,
post stats and all the stuffthat that they, you know they
want to do, and so we, he, he,just he's.
He'll be 16 in September, so uh, he.
So he just opened an Instagramaccount.
You know my philosophy.
I think that surprises a lot ofpeople that we still allow.
(19:14):
Sarah does not have any socialmedia.
She's 13.
I think it surprises peoplethat we would still allow that.
And I can't stop being a parentbecause this has happened and
you know, I think about it inthe context of preparation for
life.
I mean, this is going to behere.
This technology, in some formor fashion, is going to be a way
(19:36):
that we communicate, and if wetake this away from our kids, we
are setting them at a severedisadvantage socially and I just
don't think that's the rightapproach.
I think the right approach is,with anything that's dangerous
is to be well-educated.
My philosophies with Bennettspecifically, and that's the
thing I mean it can be socialmedia or it can be just the
(19:56):
Internet.
Are you going to cut them offcompletely from the Internet?
What about video games?
Are you going to cut them offcompletely from video games.
I mean, I'm not a fan of videogames, but that culture is
obviously an important activityfor them.
Their life changes.
Guess what I mean.
If you were to look back inhistory 100 years, they wouldn't
(20:17):
believe we talked on thetelephone in the 80s.
So I mean, it's just lifechanges.
But education is how we shouldmove forward with it, in my
opinion, and as a parent.
But education is how we shouldmove forward with it in my
opinion, and you know, as aparent, the number one thing I
think that we can do is set theexpectation.
That number one.
I recognize this is goodtechnology but it also can be
dangerous.
That's number one.
(20:37):
Number two is it's mine and I'mgoing to monitor it and we're
going to have conversationsabout it, and those are not
controversial conversations.
Those can be casualconversations and those are not
controversial conversations.
Those can be casualconversations.
But the third thing is, becauseit's dangerous and because it's
mine, I'm going to be payingattention to what's happening on
it the best I can.
And that's where I think thatyou know the legislative side
(20:59):
can go a long way towardshelping us as parents, because
there are not great solutionsout there.
From what I've seen, I've tried,I've tried, we've tried
Covenant Eyes I've used it.
It works okay.
We've just used the screen timeand family groups on iPhones it
(21:19):
works okay.
You just got to monitor it, yougot to pay attention, and when
something pops up that'ssuspicious, that you don't like
or that is obviously some kindof a breach in what you all have
agreed to, let's talk.
I mean, you're not in trouble,let's talk about it.
Why did you?
Why were you here?
What was going on here?
What were you talking about?
Who were you talking to?
Just some basic questions, andI think that goes a long way
(21:39):
towards kids saying, okay, it,it at least gives me enough
pause to know that there aredangerous things.
At least my dad thinks there'sdangerous things happening here,
whether I agree or not.
And I'm going to have to answersome questions, depending on
what I do and where I go andwhat I say.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Yeah, I think that's so the guardrails you're putting
in place with social media.
And I, I mean, you know, Iagree with you wholeheartedly on
, yeah, delay.
I mean don't give young kidssocial media.
We don't advocate for that, butI do believe it is a life skill
that we have to teach thembefore they leave our home, and
(22:15):
I think a lot of us miss thewindow because we're just afraid
of it.
And so I think it's very wiseof you and you can implement it
in stages of you and you canimplement it in stages.
So like, for example, your sonit's one social media account,
he didn't download four.
You didn't say, okay, you canhave social media.
Now you have Snapchat, tiktok,all it's one at a time.
(22:37):
And I'm sure there's nowcertain guardrails just about
that, like a private account,who he's allowing to follow him,
who he's corresponding with.
There's other guardrailconversations around that now,
because of what we know.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, and you know, I think what we're seeing now is
there's a, there's a recognition.
Obviously, I know that we're aspecial case because of the life
that, because of where?
Because of losing Walker.
But you know the conversationof the day.
Bennett said, well, such andand such tried to fight, has
tried to follow me multipletimes.
Do y'all know this person?
We're like, no, we don't know.
So it's, it's, it's starting towork.
(23:14):
I guess, is what I want youwant your audience to hear me
say.
Is that that constantconversation, and not always
about you know, just, I mean, wetry not to make everything
about Walker and about the lifethat we're living now.
We want it to be.
You know, what are you seeing?
What team is doing this?
Who got traded, who's moving,who's leaving?
You know that's what he'sinterested in today and Sarah's
(23:35):
interested in bacon.
So I mean, she has a Pinterestaccount.
Look, all of these have somedegree of danger associated with
them.
But the main thing is a parentnumber one recognize it's
dangerous, don't bury your headin the sand.
I mean, that's, that's areality.
And, um, if you think that it'snot dangerous, you're just not
(23:58):
right.
And I can point to so manydifferent, different things
besides this that happened toWalker.
Uh, I think you know, if Iwould have been a parent hearing
this before this happened to us, I would have said none of my
kids would.
They may get in trouble, butthey're never going to do what
Walker did.
They're never going to taketheir own life.
To those people that say thatabout their kids, I know you
(24:19):
love your kids and I knowthey're great kids, but I'm
telling you they were not moretrustworthy than Walker.
They weren't.
And that's not me, that's notme, just that's not me Just
trying to.
I mean, I love Walker and Ilove my family, but I'm telling
you what kind of kid he was.
I'm telling you that, as aperson that would say that I
would never consider, would havesaid I would never consider
(24:42):
suicide, and I'm telling youthat.
Not that I've ever given itlike, but there's been points in
this journey where I just wishI was not here, and that's just
a fact.
And those are short lived,those have been very short
stints, but I'm just telling youthat you're not going to
convince me that each and everyone of us are not capable of
(25:04):
that thought, of that walkingdown that road, and that's just
one aspect.
That's not, you know it'sconsidered the drug deals that
are happening, the humantrafficking that are happening.
All I mean there is asmorgasbord of things that are
happening in technology thatyour kids have the ability to
fall into.
So recognize it is dangerous.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
I loved what you said there, because when I share
Walker's story at our events, Ishare it in the context of you
can never say never.
You can never say your kidswould not do this, because Brian
and Courtney were fantasticparents, are fantastic parents,
right, doing all the rightthings, and Walker was still a
(25:47):
victim of this.
So we need to switch ourthinking.
We just can't, we cannot fallinto the trap of saying our kids
would never do that, our kidswould never do that because you
know we're active and involvedor whatever.
I just think it's such acritical point that good parents
recognize that.
So I want to talk more a littlebit about these guardrails in
place.
So you know one of theguidelines that we've talked
(26:09):
about before at Next Talk nophones in bedrooms or bathrooms.
How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I'd say that's probably the number one thing
that I have thought about andenforced since Walker's death is
I know that if that phone wouldhave been in my room that night
, walker would still be here andthere was no reason for him to
have it.
There was no, there's no validreason for any kid to have their
(26:36):
phone past bedtime.
Now, everybody may.
In some homes everybody staysup till 11 o'clock at night.
That's fine.
But when everybody goes to bedthe phone comes with the parent.
It's just a good way to.
It's just a good way to handleit, not to say the thing.
I mean I've had parents say,hey, that's not going to fix it
all.
I understand it's not.
That's not what I'm trying todo.
(26:58):
We're trying to put enoughthings in place that there's
some red flag that occurs ifsomething bad happens and to
discourage activities that canlead to that.
And I think we've talked aboutit here in the past.
We've talked about pornographyand that was something that was
on Walker's phone.
A 16-year-old I've said it many,many times that if it had been
(27:23):
that accessible when I was thatage, you know most men can
relate that.
Our generation it was typicallymagazines and either you had to
have a buddy that had one, oryou had to go to the store and
buy one.
Both of those were really hardto do, but that was.
The worst case scenario thenwas that you saw things that you
shouldn't have been seeing.
You had a warped perception of,you know, a relationship with a
(27:46):
woman.
Those were bad things.
But most men, I'm going to tellyou and they may not admit it,
they may admit it, I don't know,but most men have, have had
some participation inpornography at some point in
their history.
That's just a fact.
The statistics say that.
And you know, this activity thatwe think of as innocent today,
(28:07):
it's not.
It wasn't innocent in our day,but it's dangerous now.
That's different.
It's different in participatingin something that causes you
poor habits and poor perception.
But then you take the next step.
We're in that next step now towhere it leads to things that
can be dangerous.
We're in that next step now towhere it leads to things that
(28:29):
can be dangerous, and that'swhere I think the no phones in
bedrooms and bathrooms,especially for young teenage
boys, is really important.
Because you take the phone fromthose areas, it's less likely
for that activity to happen.
And I think Walker just sawwhat he was doing that night as
an extension of that behavior.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I want to say I agree with everything you said, yes,
and I do want to say, though,you know we have seen cases
where parents have thatguardrail in place and the kids
still go sneak at night and getit and get into trouble Like
there's.
I know it's not a hundredpercent foolproof, but, like you
said, it takes an extra step.
It's another guardrail put inplace that could maybe help in a
(29:13):
situation, and I think that'sreally important.
It's it's our job to createthese guardrails, Like you said.
I do want to talk about thepornography aspect a little bit
more, because I know we've we'vedone a show on that since
Walker show about pornographyand how you know you've really
been outspoken about how youbelieve it desensitizes these
(29:35):
kids to where sharing nudes ortaking pictures of themselves
like it almost creates a blurryline in that, because they they
see it so much, they see porn somuch, and it's such a part of
their culture.
Even if they're not seeing it,they're hearing about it.
You know in graphic detailabout what somebody else watched
the night before.
So you have a young teen boyand he's on Instagram and he's a
(30:01):
football player.
So what does that look like,that conversation between you
and your son about pornographyLike what does that look like?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
The first thing that I think the most difficult part
is to bring it up, because it'sembarrassing and it's, you know,
the idea that he would want tolook at that.
You know, it's justembarrassing and I think that
you know any other parent orteen would be in that same
(30:31):
situation.
But once that subject has beenbrought up and you're I mean
it's not just directly relatedto pornography, but just a
conversation around sex, aconversation around girls, a
conversation around how to treatgirls and what to think about
and you know all of thosedifferent things.
Obviously, teen boys aretalking between themselves.
I don't know this has changed alot, even from generation to
(30:51):
generation, in terms of thereluctance of a parent to have
this kind of conversation with akid, with one of their kids.
I mean, it is what it is and weall recognize it.
But you know, for me it's aboutjust being transparent and
saying, hey, all right, givethem some time.
Hey, in 30 minutes we're goingto talk about this.
(31:12):
Whenever we get in a truck,there's a conversation I want
you to have around sex, and thatkind of gives some time for
that conversation to sink in andsay, okay, I'm going to have to
have this conversation with mydaddy, and it's not just you
don't just spring it on them.
You know it's not just spur ofthe moment, but I think it goes
around asking a lot of questionshave you seen anything
(31:32):
inappropriate lately?
No, you know, that's generallywhat you're going to get, and I
don't get a lot of.
I don't think you're going toget a lot of feedback.
So the fact that they might notbe responding but they're
listening and so that justfurther opens the door and helps
, and I think a lot of it isjust common sense is listen.
(31:54):
God created men and women and Ithink I told you before.
You know, I had a conversation,you know, when I had a.
I had a.
When I have meetings or eventswhere I speak to kids, I'll
about boys specifically.
We relate it to a trap.
I use a hog trap in mypresentation.
I say hogs have a blind spot.
(32:15):
They don't look up.
So our trap is elevated.
I say boys, what is your blindspot?
They all look around.
I say well, your blind spot isthat you have a physical need
for sex.
It's physical.
It's like you desire to eat.
That's natural.
It's the way God made you.
Of course, they all snicker andeverybody looks at each other.
But I try to lighten that alittle bit by saying, hey, we're
(32:37):
all here because somebody hadsex.
Everybody, even your teachers,even your coaches, even your mom
and daddy, everybody's herebecause somebody had sex.
So it's a fact of life and it'sembarrassing to talk about it.
But I think the more that wecan be creative in having those
conversations in that way, thelighter we can make of the
pornography, because that's acomplete change in our culture,
(33:02):
in how accessible it is to see,visualize and see two people
having sex, and it fulfills, forteenage boys especially.
It fulfills that sexual, thatneed, that physical need for sex
, but it but it fulfills it verytemporarily.
And that sin that then youstart to engage in changes your
(33:24):
personality, changes how you seeother people, changes your
reliance on other people, and soit's.
You know, starting thatconversation is the most
difficult part, in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
It's almost like you just have to have the courage to
start the conversation and Ithink oftentimes, like stories
like Walker's or other storiesthat we hear that have ended so
tragically, maybe it gives usthe push to be like, okay, I
(33:55):
need to have this conversation,even though it's it may be
awkward at first.
I know for me and my kids likethe first couple conversations
were totally awkward, but thenit's like we moved into this
really cool phase where it's notas awkward and the bandaid has
been ripped off and you can evenjoke sometimes about it.
You know you get into thisspace where you're joking with
(34:17):
them about their culture and butalso then you're stepping in
and being like wait a minute,that's very dangerous.
You know you're, you're, you'rebeing able to do both in that
guiding, guidance, foundational.
You know, parent role as well.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Well, and I think that you know the the problem we
have as a, as a society, isthere are some major behavioral
characteristics that arechanging.
I mean the the reproductiverate is below two per family now
, like 1.8 per family.
So that means that we're notreplacing who's dying.
(34:51):
Let's just put that as ageneral statement.
It means our population isdeclining.
Well, that's being attributedto the accessibility.
I mean, I tell the kids in themeeting I say look, god gave you
boys this physical need for sexfor a lot of reasons.
I mean predominantly so you cancompete for a mate.
I said, you know, so thatyou'll be competitive.
(35:12):
All the things that you'regoing to be as a man are going
to be driven by this physicalneed.
You have to engage in sex.
Well, what's happening now isthat they're fulfilling that
physical need because for a manit is physical, it's a physical
act, and I know that I alwayssay that there's a variation in
(35:32):
people, everybody's different.
But I'm just saying as ageneral statement, the
predominance of men is justabout the physical act.
We have access now throughpornography at a really
high-quality physical act, moreso even than the actual act in
many cases, and so you havegirls that are trying to live up
(35:53):
to what boys are seeing onlineand you have boys that are
having that expectation of thesegirls that they'd be like what
it looks like online and at theend of the day, they're both
being fulfilled in some kind ofway and not reproducing, not
having kids, not having the sameattachments to a relationship.
All those things are effectsthat we don't know how that
(36:16):
stuff is going to end.
We don't know as a society, asa culture, what is that going to
mean to the human species longterm.
It's new.
This is relatively new in theexpanse of human.
I'm going to use the wordevolution is how we have
developed as mankind, how Godhas intended us to be.
This is new within the last 20years that we had this kind of
(36:39):
expectation of content, and it'svery scary where it could lead.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
It's impacting our relations and our intimacy, you
know, because, like you weresaying, for men generally it's
very physical and I think forwomen it's generally more I
don't know how to put it likeromantic, like we've got the
emotions involved in it right.
Yes, it's an emotional, romantickind of thing and I think that
(37:09):
and that's again a generalstatement I know there are
different people that would seethat differently, but I think
you know God brings those twotogether in a marriage for the
man to understand the woman andthe woman to understand the man
and for this beautiful thing tohappen.
But what has been happening isthe porn has been so captivating
(37:31):
it and making it even morephysical, I think, than men were
even wired for that.
That the objectification andthe way women are treated, and I
mean it is just a rot in ourworld.
It's a rot.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
That's a great way to put it.
Yep, that's exactly right.
And imagine these kids arestarting now, at 10, 11, 12
years old, of observing thiscontent.
And I mean it has no choice butto change.
Because I mean you think abouta relationship between a husband
and a wife, or a boyfriend andgirlfriend, for that matter.
I mean a lot of thosecommitments, a lot of the things
(38:07):
that it takes to make arelationship.
I think about it sometimes andnone of us are in our marriage
relationship just based on whatwe can get out of it.
But you take away a few of thethings that we rely on in that
relationship and all of a sudden, the relationship gets really,
really difficult and we're at apoint.
So what that does that forcesus to provide okay, my wife
(38:31):
expects this out of me.
My wife says, okay, Brianexpects this out of me.
So we're going to fulfill thoseexpectations in order to
continue to make thatrelationship strong and help it
to grow.
Because what's that say when Isay that I will fulfill
something in our relationshipthat you're counting on?
It says I love you.
It says I care about you.
It says I value thisrelationship.
Well, now we're starting to say, well, hang on, my wife don't
(38:54):
have to fulfill this in ourrelationship.
I can get it instantaneouslythrough technology, and so that
means I can still be a jerk.
That means I can go to work allday and not come home.
That means that I can put allof my personal needs above hers,
and that's what our kids arelearning through this.
Set aside all the dangerousthings that happened to Walker,
(39:15):
that's just one aspect of it.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
It's a selfishness, it's all about you.
It's all about you and I thinkthat's a big conversation with
kids too is that when you maybeare using porn to masturbate or
whatever, while you're lookingat porn, it's all about you.
And so when you enter into amarriage, the way it's looking
at porn, it's all about you.
And so when you enter into amarriage, the way it's intended
to be, it's supposed to be aboutfulfilling your spouse.
(39:41):
You know, for men it's supposedto be about fulfilling the
woman's need there and so.
But there's a selfishnessbecause it's all about you,
because that's how it's been forthe last so many years, and I
think you're right, the youngerand younger it gets, like it's
just we don't know how this isgoing to end, because now we've
got, we get calls that yet asyoung as five years old being
(40:02):
exposed to pornography and like,what do I do with that?
And I mean these are we've seena huge uptick in the last, you
know, probably five years, evenfor the younger and younger kids
getting exposed to porn.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
So it's a conversation we cannot skip with
our kids in your audiencespecifically if they recognize
something is dangerous for theirkids, if they truly say, okay,
(40:39):
yeah, this is something I needto be paying attention to, they
will do that.
And so I think that's the firststep is recognize those dangers
, and then after that, there's avariety of ways to practically
work through it, and I think forevery family it can be a little
bit different.
I don't want to be the parentthat sits down and says, okay,
we're going to have our30-minute weekly meeting about
(40:59):
technology.
I think that becomes way toorobotic.
I think that, going back to, Ithink it's more driven by the
relationship and strengtheningthat relationship, and I think
for me it's turned into okay,there's things that my family
does that I may not be thatinterested in, but I'm going to
(41:20):
act interested in order tofoster that relationship so that
I can have those conversations.
And I say act interested.
It's not like I'm notinterested, but I'm saying
there's things that I'm moreinterested in than others, and
so putting forth that effortshows them hey, daddy really
does love me and he wants to, hewants the best for me, and so,
therefore, I'm going to givethis time that he's trying to
(41:40):
ask of me and work through thiswith him.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
And.
I think so many times you know,traditionally in my home and a
lot of our homes, I was pickingthe kids up from school and I
was with them more and I washaving the conversations.
But as we have learned to talkmore as a family and I've seen
(42:03):
Matt grow more involved andengaged with our kids through
these difficult conversations,it has just it's huge to have
the dad voice in the homespeaking into these issues.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, and to do that point, I mean I certainly don't
want to overstate my involvement, because Courtney is the rock
when it comes to that.
I mean she is, you know, she asfar as just participating, and
I think if the kids havesomething hard, they go to her
and that's look, it takes a teamand you know, and there's
certain aspects, like I said, Idon't want to have any of those
(42:37):
conversations with my daughter.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
So we talked about some guardrails, you know,
definitely like private accounts, making sure they know who
their friend requesting orspeaking to on Instagram and
social media.
No phones in bedrooms orbathrooms talking to kids about
porn media.
No phones in bedrooms orbathrooms talking to kids about
porn.
Anything else that's like,before we go today, that you're
like I want to hit on this too.
(43:00):
I want to like like get this inthere on a, on a guardrail that
you have.
That's really important.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I don't think from.
I think, going back, I thinkwe've kind of hit everything
we're talked with.
That that's important from aguardrail standpoint.
I think that if I could haveone other aspect that I think is
important, it's having it inour churches and in our schools,
those organizations engaging inthese issues.
I still think we're living in aworld where those organizations
(43:30):
are trying to pretend likethese problems don't exist and I
think that's a mistake.
And I don't have any particularfirst thing, because I've
spoken in a bunch of churches,I've spoken in a bunch of
schools, but I think that it'sreal easy for this not to be a
(43:52):
point of conversationsystematically and I think
that's a mistake.
Like we need to be bringingthose things to the forefront.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Well, like you said at the very beginning, like this
is not something that I thoughtwould be our story, and so you
don't think about it until ithappens to you.
And that's why you're sooutspoken, because you're like
wake up, I don't want this tohappen to you guys.
Brian, thank you for being here.
Always good talking to you.
Please keep us posted on youknow, Walker's case and and your
(44:20):
health and whatever we can doto come alongside of you and
help your family.
We're always here.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Look we're.
I mean again, I know we'vealways said it, but your, your
audience and y'all as a familyhave been so supportive of us
and look we, we just appreciateit.
I don't think we could havemade this, uh, could have made
it without without that impact,without y'all praying for us and
being there for us and givingus an opportunity to speak and
talk about things, and it's um,you know that.
(44:46):
That's what.
That's what it gives you hopein the world that we live in
that there are people that stillcare and the people that are
still engaged in fighting thefight, same fight that we're
fighting, and so I appreciatey'all for that.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, we're not going anywhere, we're in it together
for sure.
Thanks a lot.
Thanks a lot, brian.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
Thank you.
Next Talk is a 501c3 nonprofitkeeping kids safe online.
To support our work, make adonation at nexttalkorg.
Next Talk resources are notintended to replace the advice
of a trained healthcare or legalprofessional, or to diagnose,
treat or otherwise render expertadvice regarding any type of
medical, psychological, legal,financial or other problem.
You are advised to consult aqualified expert for your
(45:26):
personal treatment plan.
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