October 14, 2025 • 32 mins
A text that changes everything. A nap that becomes a goodbye. And a father who chooses hope, presence, and integrity to lead four girls through a storm they never asked for. Pastor and nonprofit leader Jonathan Pitts shares the story behind sudden loss, the quiet courage of daily faith through single parenting, blending a family, and how a small resource grew into a magazine serving thousands of tween girls and their families.
KEEPING KIDS SAFE ONLINE
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (00:01):
Welcome to the Next Tech podcast.
We are a nonprofit passionateabout keeping kids safe online.
We're learning together how tonavigate tech, culture, and
faith with our kids.
Today on the show, I haveJonathan Pitt.
Jonathan, thanks for being here.
You want to introduce yourselfto our audience?
SPEAKER_00 (00:22):
Hey Mandy, yeah, I'm glad to be with you.
And uh yeah, I guess I'll uh sayI am a pastor in Franklin,
Tennessee.
Uh I uh lived in Texas 14 years,uh, but I've basically been 20
years in ministry, pastoralministry for probably half of
that.
And then was the exact executivedirector for a ministry called
the Urban Alternative, which isa ministry of Dr.
(00:42):
Tony Evans.
If people know the Evans family,maybe.
But I've really grown up in kindof a nonprofit ministry world.
I still run a ministry for uh mylate wife Winter Pitts and uh
called for Girls Like You, whichis the magazine.
So I've got like a lot ofdifferent things going on.
Um, every day's prettyinteresting, but um, more than
anything else, um, I've got abig family that I love.
(01:04):
I love God.
I'm just a regular dude.
So yeah, that's me.
SPEAKER_02 (01:07):
A lot of ministry experience.
Tell us about your family, andyou said your late wife Winter.
Walk us through that story.
SPEAKER_00 (01:14):
I met um Winter in college in 2001, and we got
married soon after graduating in2003.
We're just college sweetheartsand got married, and by God's
grace, I was not I was livingkind of a hypocritical Christian
life when I met her.
Um, she was doing less so, butmaybe a little bit disconnected
from from her faith.
(01:35):
And really the Lord would, whenwe met, he would really just
kind of spur us on towards umyeah, just the things of God.
So we kind of both rededicatedour lives to Christ at kind of a
young age.
And uh we graduate from DrexelUniversity, Drexel University in
Philly in uh 20, 2003, getmarried.
We had our first daughter,Alina, at 24.
(01:56):
So some would consider thatyoung.
I didn't at the time, I thoughtit was kind of normal, but we'd
have one baby and then we'dproceed to have four babies in
five years, um, all girls, ouryoungest two being twins.
And we actually would move toTexas um pretty early on um in
our marriage.
So my girls were basicallyraised in Dallas, Texas for the
first 14 years of my oldestdaughter's life.
(02:17):
My other three were born there.
And so um, yeah, we uh foundourselves in marriage and life,
and um, I I would basically fallinto ministry by accident.
I was a guy trying to make abunch of money, and God called
me into ministry.
I took all of my calladministrative relationship
gifts and just gave it to theLord in vocational ministry.
(02:37):
That's a whole nother story foranother day.
But um winter actually wouldfeel like God was calling her to
come home early on.
And she actually uh, you know, acouple years in that she wasn't
like the baking bread um youknow, homeschool mom type of uh
type of mom.
She she felt like God called herhome, but it was a real it was
(02:57):
hard.
And so she just would embodythat scripture, delight yourself
in the Lord, he'll give you thedesires of your heart.
She actually had that scriptureon her on her prayer wall in our
closet.
And eventually God would giveher um a ministry, and she just
wanted to create a resource forour oldest daughter who was
seven at the time, and thatwould become for Girls Like You
Magazine, which has really beenlike this family ministry that
(03:19):
has been in my family now for 14years.
And so um, but yeah, the longstory short, at 38 years of age,
we were married 15 years.
Um we actually were in themiddle of a transition from
Dallas, where we've been for 14years, to Franklin, Tennessee.
I was taking on a role as anexecutive pastor um for a large
church called Church in thecity, where I'm still at, um,
(03:40):
after uh 14 years of working inwhat I call the Evans brand of
ministry.
And um, we were finishing mylast week of work.
We had already bought our housein um in Franklin.
And um, on the Tuesday of mylast week of work, Winter would
text me and say, I don't feelwell.
And I was I text back, like,what's going on?
And she never responded.
So I just went home.
(04:00):
I say home, but we were stayingat one of her family members'
guest homes.
And um anyway, we ended up um Iended up coming home and she's
doing hair with mysister-in-law, her brother's
wife, and my daughters and theirdaughters, they're all just
doing each other's hair and justkind of hanging out in the
living room.
And I took a power nap.
I got up, I remember walking byher, and she needed to take a
power nap.
(04:21):
And she was finishing um thelast book that she would author,
um, uh a prayer book for girls.
And uh she she had to work thatnight, and I just knew, like,
let her take a nap, you fixdinner.
We kind of knew each other, wedidn't have to talk at that.
And then those moments, youknow, you are when you're
married for that amount of time.
And so she laid down to take anap.
Um, I went into the bathroom tofloss my teeth because we had
(04:44):
Costco ribs, which I've nevereaten again and wanted again.
And I remember flossing my teethand looking out, and she um she
sat up and then she just slumpedover in kind of an awkward way.
And uh what I didn't realize atthe time is that she had a heart
just her heart got off rhythm,the call heart just rhythmia,
and um she collapsed, and umthat would be uh I don't know,
(05:07):
30 of the scariest minutes of mylife that um would end with her
sudden um entry into eternitywith the Lord.
And so um that began a prettycrazy journey for me.
I had four girls that were againthen 14, 11, my twins were nine.
We had already bought a house ina new town, I'd accepted a job
(05:27):
in a new town, and what's crazyabout God is he um he basically
told my oldest daughter, and shecame to me and said, Dad, uh she
said, Dad, are we this is whilewe're planning the funeral, uh
she's like, Dad, are we stillgoing to Nashville?
My boss had already told me ifyou want to sell this house and
get your stuff back to Dallas,you can.
I could have gone back into myrole.
I could have secluded down intoour family, the Evans family,
(05:49):
which is a beautiful family thatare still my family.
Um, and she said, I said, uh, wehave to pray about it, you know,
and just see what God wants.
And she said, Well, I feel likewe're supposed to go because mom
was more excited than any of us.
And so we would we would buryWinter in Dallas, and then my
girls would go to Pine CoveChristian camps, which I'm sure
a lot of your listeners arefamiliar with.
They had they already had a weekplanned to go there, so we
(06:11):
buried her.
Sorry, we did a funeral on aSaturday, we did a sunrise uh uh
burial on that Sunday morning,and then we drove my girls to
camp.
And what's really beautiful forme is um I know Pine Cove is
such a special place for us, butit was probably one of the only
places in the world I knew I Iknew I could drop my kids off,
and they would be encouraged andbuild up in truth while I could
(06:33):
also get some time to recoverfrom yeah, the most hellacious
kind of week of my life.
And so that began kind of a newjourney.
We'd we'd move on to toFranklin.
And what I what I love to say isFranklin is just like such a
wonderful place to heal.
Like people come here to heal.
And what I would say is I'vereceived um early on uh a couple
(06:53):
of really beautiful years ofgrieving and healing, and also
support to you know help with mygirls.
My sister would move in with me.
She had never been married,never had kids.
She moved in with me and becamea surrogate mom of my girls.
And um, yeah, that was abeautiful season.
And then I would eventually meetmy now wife, uh, Pita is her
name, my beautiful wife and bestfriend, which is weird to even
(07:15):
be able to say that.
Uh that's probably a mysteriouskind of saying for someone that
heard the first part of mystory, but um, God had another
plan for my life.
Um, I've been married now forfour years, and we'd have some
grief.
We lost uh we had miscarriage,we had a stillborn son, um, and
then uh at 38 weeks, which wasreally painful.
We held him in our arms and allthat and said goodbye to him.
(07:37):
And then um eventually we'd haveanother son, uh, Jonathan, my
namesake, Jonathan Joshua Arrow.
We call him Arrow.
And so now I have five children,been married for four years, 19
total years of marriage, butfour years in my current
marriage.
And God's just really faithful.
I still run for girls like you,I still pastor church the city.
Um I don't know if I'm givingyou more than when you want, but
(08:00):
um anyway, my I felt I find lifeto be really beautiful right
now, and in some ways I'm inthis place where I'm like, all
right, God, what do you havenow?
Because um I'm kind of in thissettled place now.
You know, it's weird to kind ofhave I've had really seven years
of massive transition, and nowI'm kind of like, okay, I'm in
my new life, I'm kind ofsettled, I'm raising my my I've
(08:20):
got one that's married for ayear now, I've got one that's
launched at Baylor University,I've got twins that are juniors
and a newborn baby.
So I'm I'm in a lot of seasonsat once right now, Mandy.
It's pretty crazy.
And having to, you know, it'sfunny thinking about kind of
what you do.
I've had to do um technologywith kids in a lot of different
ways over all these years.
And by the way, when I finishwith this boy, who I think is my
(08:41):
last, um, I'll have beenparenting 39 years parenting
minders, which is a lot of yearsof parenting minders.
So pray for me, I got a lot ofyears ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (08:49):
So well, and technology is changing so fast.
So how you parented your oldergirls and how you're gonna have
to parent your son is gonna lookdifferent as well.
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
I want to need all the hope in the world I can get.
SPEAKER_02 (09:02):
I got you, I got you.
Okay, so I want to unpack thisbecause you know, winter passed
suddenly.
You did not expect it, and allof a sudden you're a single dad.
And it sounds like you had agreat family support system to
help you manage that, but stillit was on you.
You were the dad.
And you were also grieving yourwife.
(09:25):
So, you know, I look at that andI think, man, how does somebody
with no faith get throughsomething like that?
Like how important was yourfaith in that time?
Because you're happy.
You're, you know, we know howthe story ends for you.
You're you're in a greatrelationship, married again, you
know, and this is amazing.
(09:46):
But but in that moment in thatdark of night when your life has
just completely blindsided youas to what you thought it would
look like.
Speak into that about your faithand and that journey with being
a single dad and helping themwalk through their grief as
well.
SPEAKER_00 (10:03):
Yeah, I mean, honestly, like I don't know what
I would have done without faith.
It's funny, I I do a lot ofpastoral um, not counseling, but
you know, obviously a lot ofpastoral conversations with
people, a lot who have lostbecause of my story, a lot of
grieving people.
And I'd say there's a starkdifference between the person
who is walking by faith and theperson who's not, because the
(10:24):
person who's walking by faithhas some level of understanding
of the purposes of God, aregrander and more mysterious than
we could have ever imaginedbefore.
And so, and I I would say to thedegree that you're more mature
in Christ, it doesn't make thepain any less.
You feel the pain, the pain isreal, the pain is there.
But there is a level, you know,I think scripture says we don't
(10:45):
grieve as those who have nohope.
Um, because that's that's trueand that's real.
So for me, like a couple thingsI want to say.
First of all, I knew by thepower of the Holy Spirit when
Turg died that God obviously hadnew purpose for me, new purpose
for my girls, new purpose foreverybody connected to her.
And that's a weird thing to bothfeel the pain of the loss of
(11:07):
someone, but also have in theback of your mind there's almost
like this, I don't want to callit cognitive dissonance, but
there is this reality of, Iguess, multiple um realities at
once, like this reality of likeI just lost the most significant
person I've ever had in my life.
Also, I know she's with theLord.
Also, I know that I knew thatshe fulfilled the purpose of,
you know, the Bible says thatDavid served the purposes of God
(11:28):
for his life.
This is in Acts, in Acts 13, Ithink.
David served the purposes of Godfor in his life for his
generation, and then he fellasleep.
And Dr.
Remens used to preach on thatall the time.
So I had like this awareness oflike, wow, like God will not
allow any of us to leave thisworld without fulfilling the
purpose that he has for us ifwe're in Christ.
And so, like, I'm like, I haveall these realities going on at
once.
And so for me, there was somelevel of like, um, I don't even
(11:51):
want to call it peace, but I dowant to call it um, maybe hope
is probably the better word.
There was this hope that God wasdoing something despite the
circumstances that werehappening.
Didn't mean there wasn't doubt,didn't mean there wasn't
wrestle, didn't mean therewasn't, there was a lot of fear.
Um, but there was like thispurpose that I felt in it.
Um, that was also really helpfuland true because I had these
(12:11):
four girls, and I knew that ifwe were gonna make it, if my
girls were gonna make it, I hadto be okay.
And so there was there, I thinkthere's this thing that God does
for parents that you you realizethat I've got this job to do,
and that job is greater thaneven myself.
Like my my ability to parentthese girls is greater than my
need to parent these girls isgreater than my need to even be
(12:32):
healthy myself.
Now, I can only be I can onlyparent them well if I'm healthy
myself.
So there's you got all thesethings going on, but I but there
was something about having mygirls that this purpose in that
that was also really fulfilling.
But I think the biggest thingfor me when it comes to my faith
is, and it comes down to onescripture, Philippians 4.8, it's
my life scripture, I think, atthis point.
Yeah, Paul says earlier,Philippians 4.4, rejoice in the
(12:53):
Lord always.
Again, I say rejoice, let yourgentleness be known to all the
Lord is near.
And then he goes on to say, uh,whatever this is Philippians
4.8, whatever is true, whateveris right, whatever is honorable,
whatever's pure, whatever'slovely, whatever's admirable, if
anything is excellent orpraiseworthy, think about these
things.
A lot of theologians would callthat the celebration or the
discipline of celebration.
Like that celebration isactually not just like something
(13:16):
we do, it's something wediscipline ourselves to do.
And we have to disciplineourselves.
Imagine Paul saying that as aprisoner to a persecuted church.
That's what was happening.
Paul was talking to a persecutedchurch, so he's not giving these
words from some mansion, youknow, in, you know, he's not
like this mega church pastorjust enjoying the vine life.
(13:36):
Like he's like this guy that'sgone through a hard time.
And so I would say those wordsfrom Paul, which were already
kind of etched on my soul,became real and necessary for me
in that moment in a way they hadnever been before.
And I'm thankful that they werethere.
I'm thankful that my parentslike literally did all they
could do to equip my siblingsand I to like just feed us the
word of God, whether we wantedor not, by the way, they were
feeding us the word of God.
(13:57):
And at some level, at somepoint, it just took root and it
took root and it took root.
And that saved my life.
I promise you, it saved my lifein the hardest moments of my
life.
And frankly, you know, it'sfunny because even with my
girls, like I would say it savedtheir lives because it saved my
life saved my life.
But ultimately, even like therewas this part of me, and I have
to acknowledge this, there'sthis part of me that is always
(14:19):
future forward focused.
It's just how God's wired me.
So, like the easier thing for mein grief, so there's two kinds
of people.
There's those of us that lookforward in grief, and we just
go, okay, I gotta keep going,productivity, all that.
And then there's those of usthat want to stay behind in
grief, and we um we want to juststay in the past.
And my counselor told me when Iwas in um grief counseling, when
(14:40):
I was like, I had thispropensity to just be like,
okay, what do I do?
What do I do?
What's next?
He said, Jonathan, you can'tlive in the future and you can't
live in the past.
All you can do is live in thepresent.
And so, anyway, that's reallybeen the desire of my my life.
I don't get it right any day,um, but it's just to live where
I'm presently at.
And I would say for for anybodywalking through grief, but
really for anybody walkingthrough life, that's like the
(15:02):
goal of our life is just to bepresent, you know.
Um, so I said more than youprobably wanted me to there, but
um, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:09):
It was beautiful, and that was a word for all of
us because we all to be present,no matter what we have going on.
We all have mountains andvalleys that we're we're on in
this life.
SPEAKER_00 (15:18):
Yeah, and our in our age, it's probably both at the
same time, pretty much uh allthe time.
It's like there's mountains andvalleys at the same time that
we're having to navigate.
So that's a good point.
SPEAKER_02 (15:28):
That is absolutely true.
Um okay, so you're you'regrieving and that's a process,
and you're single dadding, andyou know, you're doing all of
this with the Lord's drink.
And then you meet PETA.
And help me walk me through thatbecause I immediately go to
happiness for you, but alsolike, oh, your girls, how did
(15:50):
that, how did that, how did theyhandle that?
SPEAKER_00 (15:53):
Yeah.
Yeah, I would say um familyblending.
I think this is true.
I say it all the time now, but Ithink it's true, that family
blending for me was scarier thanwalking with my girls through
grief because with grief, mygirls and I were on the same
team.
We're all grieving differently,and there was like this, there
(16:15):
was the biggest challenge ingrief is I have to give my girls
space to grief differently thanI did grieve.
And some are slower, some aremore angry, some are more
withdrawn, where I'm more vocal.
Um, so that was there was like aleadership in walking through
grief, but we were all on thesame page.
We had all lost the same personthat was the most important
person in our life to thatpoint.
(16:36):
And then all of a sudden, I meetthe person who uh is quickly
becoming the most importantperson in my life.
And I'm realizing that I'm like,I'm falling in love with this
person, and and this person isheaven sent to me.
Like, I can tell like God'sdoing this.
But that's not the same for notjust my girls, but anybody else
in my life.
For everybody else in my lifethat knew Winter, there's this
(16:59):
new person that really changesthe story in a way that I would
say most people weren'tcomfortable with.
And by the way, like even forme, like I was a bit
uncomfortable with because insome ways, like I've got, you
know, I've got this relationshipwith a person that I love, 15
years of marriage.
And the hard thing is, and thisis, I don't know, maybe some of
the other listeners haveexperienced this, like, you
(17:21):
know, oneness is I'd say onenessis kind of threefold.
I'm not a I'm not like apsychologist or I'm not a I'm
I'm I don't have the degrees tosay this, but I would say
oneness is physical, oneness isum emotional, and oneness is
spiritual.
So when Winter died physically,we were no longer one.
But the process of likeemotionally and spiritually
(17:43):
becoming unone with somebody,which has to happen because you
can't become one with anotherperson on this earth if you're
one with the person that passed.
So like I had all this work todo emotionally and spiritually,
which spiritually I say istrusting God, like trusting God
that He He gives and He takesaway.
Blessed be the name of the Lord.
Like, you know, think about yourvows in marriage, like until
(18:04):
death do us part.
You know, you have all thesethings that you say that you
don't realize until you have torealize, like, oh, that's now
ending.
And I have to trust, I have totrust winter into the hands of
the Lord, and I have to trustthat if God's giving me this new
assignment, then I have to goall in on this oneness.
And that's a process, and that'sgrievous for me.
Uh, that's grievous for thosearound me.
And so um, yeah, that was um thething that I learned uh in in
(18:27):
losing winter.
I I had to go, I'll always be adad leading through grief.
And that was more true in um thefamily blending than it's ever
been true.
Like that was the biggestdecision I made that invoked
grief, not just for my girls,but for everybody around me.
And me, by the way, and and mymy now wife.
Like it invokes grief for all ofus because you have to reconcile
(18:47):
with this world that we don'treally understand, these
mysteries we don't understand.
And so that was a challenge.
Um, you know, we're four yearsin now, and what I would say is
God is so faithful and so good,and our family is closer than
we've ever been.
You know, obviously there's lotsof insecurity and fear, and I
would also say there's um forall of us, I want to be careful
(19:11):
how I say it, but I think forall of us, including me, we
can't help but make um idols outof even our own identity, who we
are, who we think we are.
And God's always coming forthat.
He's always breaking down likeanything that we put our
identity in beyond him.
And that can be our marriage,that can be our children, that
can be the type of family wehave, that can be our family
(19:33):
structure.
And so I would just say thatGod, um, in his kindness, but
also in his wild, scary nature,he came for a lot of that in us.
And um, you know, he's alwaysdoing a new thing, and for us to
do the new thing with him, wealso we have to be willing to
let the old thing go.
And I'm not saying like winter,like winter is with the Lord,
(19:55):
and she's always a part of ourfamily in some mysterious
kingdom way, but like he's doingsomething new, and to follow him
the new thing, we have toactually die to ourselves.
We have to die to what wethought our life was going to
be.
And so I was the guy leading myentire family through that in
some ways still, you know, likewe're always leading through
that.
Um, but what I can say is um Inever imagined my family being
(20:19):
as whole and healthy as we arenow, even though we're all
different.
Like my girls are very differentthan each other, like
everything's different, we'reall different, and there's gotta
just be grace for that, youknow.
But I would say like what wehave, like we've got this very
great diversity of people in ourfamily, but this great unity in
our family.
And I would say um my son hasprobably been kind of the icing
(20:39):
on the cake for that.
Like he's he's blood with me,he's blood with his sisters,
he's blood with my wife.
So he kind of he's like thisunifying force in our family
that I'm really grateful for.
So I'm grateful for him beyondthat, but I'm grateful for for
how that he was a big part ofthat.
SPEAKER_02 (20:54):
How God is using him in that way to kind of to kind
of bring you guys all together.
You know, we're big around hereat Next Talk about open
communication and having ahealthy dialogue.
And I just, as I listened to youspeak, with all these moving
parts and all these emotions andyou said we we all processed
grief differently.
Some of us were more vocal, someof us got quiet, some of us, and
(21:15):
then all of a sudden you startdating and you fall in love
again, all these moving parts,and then still grieving every
day for winter.
How important was maintaining ahealthy dialogue and that open
conversation in yourrelationships with all of these
moving parts within your family?
SPEAKER_00 (21:35):
Yeah, really important.
Um, after winter passed away,there were some things I was
like probably too honest with mygirls in, like bring almost
bringing them into decisionmaking, because I'm like, all of
a sudden I don't have mypartner.
And I'm like, I remember like attimes asking my oldest daughter,
like, hey, what do you thinkabout what we should do here
with your younger sister?
And I'll never I'm so gratefulfor a wise oldest daughter
because she's like, Dad, I don'tknow.
(21:57):
I don't feel like I can help youwith that.
It's just like I in some ways Iwas inviting my girls into too
much, but in other ways therewere there, like it was funny,
especially around dating.
There was a there was a momentwhere I was trying to actually
keep my girls um out of my life,so to say, and it backfired.
And I'll spare I'll spare youthe story, but it was um it was
it was a difficult moment.
(22:19):
And so I had this moment with mygirls where I just determined to
be honest with them about thethings that I needed to be
really honest with them about,and then obviously be thoughtful
as a parent in what's nothelpful for my kids to know
about you know my decisionmaking.
And so that it's all it's alwaysa tricky balance because that
depends on the age of yourchild, that depends on the
maturity of your child, thatdepends on the nature of the
(22:41):
thing that you're thinkingabout.
Uh, I'm really grateful withwith my wife with PETA.
Before we did that, we actuallyhad friends that felt like the
Lord was telling them tointroduce us, a common friend.
And um, the morning I was gonnameet her on a Zoom call.
And this COVID, I'm uh I'm inI'm a pastor in uh in in
Franklin, Tennessee, and my wifeis this Australian actor in in
(23:02):
LA, and I'm just like, we havenothing in common.
We don't know anybody in commonexcept this one person.
I'm nervous out of my mind.
I remember walking outside atlike 5 a.m.
I can't sleep, and my daughter'sout there journaling, my oldest
daughter.
And I remember just had havingmade this conscious decision to
say, I'm gonna let I'm gonna lether know that um I'm having this
conversation um with this woman.
I'm I don't I don't know what'sgonna happen.
I'm just having thisconversation.
(23:23):
And I it was really cold becauseI felt like our like my
relationship with PETA startedwith like this really this very
honest place with my daughter,just being like, I don't know
what's gonna happen, but I'mtalking to this woman, and would
share that with my youngerdaughters as well.
And so it I I wouldn't say itmade it not I wouldn't say it
made it easy.
It wasn't easy, but um, but I dothink like honesty is important.
I think discernment's importantand how we talk about the things
(23:46):
that we need to talk about withour kids.
I've never gotten it perfect.
So the thing that I've alwaysbeen sure to do is always go
back if I've said somethingwrong, if I've said something in
the wrong energy, the wrongemotion, out of fear.
Like I always go back, Iapologize to my girls, I own it,
you know.
I ask them how they receivecertain things, you know.
So it's been this is a hardthing to talk about because I I
(24:07):
think from the sake of mydaughters, I try to spare, you
know, specific things, you know,in a way.
Um, but yeah, I've I've I've hadto do a lot of recovery with my
girls.
Um, and that's throughconversation and through
admitting error, admittingfault, admitting, hey dad didn't
say that perfect.
I didn't react perfect to howyou reacted to what I said.
You know, it's like there's somuch that you know, there's so
(24:30):
much immaturity that's broughtout in us based on the
immaturity of our kids.
And I think when it surfaces, wehave to be willing to actually
acknowledge that.
And yeah, that's been that'sbeen a journey.
And really loss and then familyblending has has brought that to
the surface in a way that Inever even thought possible
because it's such a vulnerableplace and there's so much
emotion around it.
(24:51):
I mean, there's there's so muchemotion around family blending.
I I I honestly I don't know howfamilies do it, you know.
Um, I've done it now and I stilldon't know how families do it.
I really feel like it's only bythe power of the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_02 (25:02):
Well, I one of the things that you said when you
answered that was beingvulnerable.
And I think that you portraythat beautifully in the sense of
I don't always get it right, butI'm just honest.
Like this is me trying to figureeverything out right now with
with my life and where we'regoing as a family.
And I think that is thrive onthat, I believe, because they
(25:24):
see so much fake on socialmedia, right?
They see it.
People post one way, live inlife a different way, a double
life.
And the more authentic andvulnerable we can be at home,
even when we don't get it right,but just going back and like you
said, apologizing, that rightthere is relationship-building
gold to me.
You know, just the authentic andthe vulnerability side.
SPEAKER_00 (25:47):
Yeah, but you make a good point.
I think the integrity of what wesay and the way we live is is
the most important thing.
And like I think about my ownchildhood and my parents who
weren't perfect, but amazing,godly couple, been married 50
years.
The thing that kept me in thefaith, even when I questioned,
even when I, you know, wrestledwith like even um rebellion, was
(26:10):
my parents were very um, therewas a real integrity between
what they said.
And I don't mean integrity inthe way we think about it, I
mean integrity as in like therewas a consistency between what
they said and how they lived.
And so I've always sought tolike try to really be that um
and model that.
So even like when it comes tolike there's a time and point
where we as parents have to makedecisions.
We have to make decisions aroundam I gonna give my kid a phone?
(26:33):
Uh, am I gonna allow my kid todate?
Whatever the thing is, we haveto make decisions.
And I think the most importantthing when we make a decision is
we have to we also have to havea conviction about our decision.
But if our kids know thatthere's an integrity between how
we live and what we say, I thinkit makes a massive difference.
Where otherwise they're justlike, you can't even manage your
own life.
Why are you trying to manage myyou know?
(26:54):
They don't say that, but I thinkthat's kind of like in the
background, the hum.
SPEAKER_02 (26:58):
Well, I think that's, you know, I mean, in my
personal opinion, Christianparents, that's how we mess up
our kids the most.
When we look a certain way atchurch and we don't live it out
in our home in private when theysee us behind closed doors, like
how we treat people, how we talkabout people, how everything.
Like that's the Jesus that we'reliving out, if we're claiming
Jesus.
(27:19):
And so I think you're so onthere with the integrity.
And I love how you point it out.
I think that's a word for all ofus that even when you struggled
with your faith as a as a youngguy, that you would maintain the
integrity that you saw behindthe closed doors with your
parents.
And it it it spoke something toyou, it did something to your
(27:39):
faith, it solidified it.
SPEAKER_00 (27:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (27:43):
I think it's a call for all of us to make sure we
don't we we have a saying aroundhere, look in the mirror, see
what you're doing wrong, and fixit because how important is that
in building the relationshipwith your kid?
And I think that's exactly whatyou're saying.
Any other parting words ofwisdom to anybody out there
blending a family or walkingthrough grief or a single dad
(28:04):
season?
Any any other words of wisdom?
SPEAKER_00 (28:07):
Yeah, I think there's lots I could say, but I
think um what I want toencourage anybody that's walking
through, whatever that seasonis, is just to own the season.
You know, like there's thisreality.
Like when I when I finally,because the hardest thing for
me, I never realized I was angryand in loss or in my in my grief
because I didn't have rage.
(28:28):
But anytime something happenedthat I didn't like in that in
that grief, I would say, Ididn't ask for this.
I didn't ask for this.
And finally, my counselor wouldsay, Hey, just so you know,
that's like that's that'sactually anger surfacing.
And like, it's good becausethat's a part of the process.
Um, but long story short, when Idecided that like that when I
finally had that anger, I had tomake this decision, okay, what
(28:50):
am I going to do with this?
And then there's a benefit toanger.
Um and for me, that benefit wasactually being willing to just
like be where I am and have tofigure out how do I do this, how
do I live this.
And for me, it was like Istarted to say to myself this
other phrase, you'll always be adad leading through grief.
Like I just like accepted thereality of where I am.
(29:11):
You'll always be a dad leadingthrough grief.
And so when something wouldsurface out of grief, I I no
longer gave myself the right tojust like be bothered.
So like, no, this is where I am,this is what I'm doing.
I'll always be a dad leadingthrough grief.
In the same way, I I I've neverreally vocalized this, I didn't
I didn't have to say it becauseI knew it to be true.
Like, I'll always be a dadleading through blending.
Like I'm I'm leading through theblending of a family.
(29:33):
I'm sure, uh and I've alreadyexperienced it, like weddings
and all these important dateswhere mom's not going to be
there, winter's not gonna bethere, and life looks different
than you thought it would be,and then what you wanted.
And there's just like this weirdtension that you have to walk
through.
And so no matter what you'regoing through, like there's
gonna be this tension you haveto walk through.
(29:53):
And I would say the more you canactually just accept the
circumstance you're in, trustingthat God can actually enter that
circumstance.
The better off you're gonna be,rather than despising it, rather
than being bitter about it.
That's a choice.
Like I can be bitter.
Like I had even when I marriedPETA, there were moments where I
had people reacting to what Iwas walking into in ways that
I'm like, man, that doesn't feelgodly or kind or helpful.
(30:16):
And it and I had to actuallyjust be okay, I had to embrace
it and be like, okay, I'm I'mI'm leading through grief in
this moment.
So like this is the leadershipthat God is that that God has
put me here.
It's not it's not my doing, Godhas put me here.
So how do I actually justembrace that and walk in it in a
way um that's pleasing to God?
So um yeah, just embrace whereyou're at.
SPEAKER_02 (30:37):
That's a word for anyone, you know, own the
season.
I I loved how you said that.
How can people contact you?
And and also let's talk aboutfor girls like you as we wrap
up, too.
It's it's a magazine for twingirls, and it it's still going
strong.
SPEAKER_00 (30:52):
Yeah, we've got thousands of girls across the
country, every state in thecountry, all around the
English-speaking world, but it'sa it's a print magazine.
So it comes in the mail in yourdaughter's name bi-monthly, so
every other month um themagazine comes out and it's for
twin girls.
So we say like a mature seven,eight-year-old that has can read
at a pretty high level, up to12.
(31:12):
And you know, we have some girlsthat read beyond that, but it
just really depends on kind ofthe maturity of that girl.
Um, but yeah, it's every othermonth.
And uh I think um if theysubscribe, uh with a discount
code.
What is that, man?
Oh, next talk 20, 20% off, nexttalk 20.
But it's really content forgirls trying to encourage them
in their faith and comealongside families to support
(31:33):
them, Christian families andraising Christian girls.
So it's gonna be encouragement,age appropriate.
You know, we're not coming attopics that you know an eight,
nine, ten-year-old's not able todigest and think about.
So we want the parent to beleading that.
But outside of that, I'm atChurch of the City, I'm a pastor
at Church of the City, I lovepastoring here.
So if you ever find yourself inFranklin, Tennessee, you could
um come out and visit ourchurch.
(31:55):
But um, you can also find me atuh Instagram's kind of where I
where I live on social.
So it's PittsJr26.
That's my Instagram.
And then for girls like you,it's at for F-O-R for Girls Like
You.
And that's kind of all thesocial handles for girls like
you.
So I'm grateful to have joinedyou, Mandy.
SPEAKER_02 (32:12):
Well, I thank you for all you're doing for the
kingdom of God, your ministries,and um man, the the amazing
family that you're raising.
SPEAKER_00 (32:20):
Uh well, thank you.
Um I count myself privileged tohave my beautiful girls, my
wife, my daughter, it's it's ormy son.
It's it's it's all pretty much agift from God.
So grateful.
SPEAKER_02 (32:30):
So thank you for sharing your journey with us.
SPEAKER_01 (32:33):
Thanks, Mandy.
Next Talk is a 501c3 nonprofitkeeping kids safe online.
To support our work, make adonation at next talk.org.
Next talk resources are notintended to replace the advice
of a trained healthcare or legalprofessional, or to diagnose,
treat, or otherwise renderexpert advice regarding any type
of medical, psychological,legal, financial, or other
problem.
You are advised to consult aqualified expert for your
(32:55):
personal treatment plan.
Welcome to the Next Tech podcast.
We are a nonprofit passionateabout keeping kids safe online.
We're learning together how tonavigate tech, culture, and
faith with our kids.
Today on the show, I haveJonathan Pitt.
Jonathan, thanks for being here.
You want to introduce yourselfto our audience?
SPEAKER_00 (00:22):
Hey Mandy, yeah, I'm glad to be with you.
And uh yeah, I guess I'll uh sayI am a pastor in Franklin,
Tennessee.
Uh I uh lived in Texas 14 years,uh, but I've basically been 20
years in ministry, pastoralministry for probably half of
that.
And then was the exact executivedirector for a ministry called
the Urban Alternative, which isa ministry of Dr.
(00:42):
Tony Evans.
If people know the Evans family,maybe.
But I've really grown up in kindof a nonprofit ministry world.
I still run a ministry for uh mylate wife Winter Pitts and uh
called for Girls Like You, whichis the magazine.
So I've got like a lot ofdifferent things going on.
Um, every day's prettyinteresting, but um, more than
anything else, um, I've got abig family that I love.
(01:04):
I love God.
I'm just a regular dude.
So yeah, that's me.
SPEAKER_02 (01:07):
A lot of ministry experience.
Tell us about your family, andyou said your late wife Winter.
Walk us through that story.
SPEAKER_00 (01:14):
I met um Winter in college in 2001, and we got
married soon after graduating in2003.
We're just college sweetheartsand got married, and by God's
grace, I was not I was livingkind of a hypocritical Christian
life when I met her.
Um, she was doing less so, butmaybe a little bit disconnected
from from her faith.
(01:35):
And really the Lord would, whenwe met, he would really just
kind of spur us on towards umyeah, just the things of God.
So we kind of both rededicatedour lives to Christ at kind of a
young age.
And uh we graduate from DrexelUniversity, Drexel University in
Philly in uh 20, 2003, getmarried.
We had our first daughter,Alina, at 24.
(01:56):
So some would consider thatyoung.
I didn't at the time, I thoughtit was kind of normal, but we'd
have one baby and then we'dproceed to have four babies in
five years, um, all girls, ouryoungest two being twins.
And we actually would move toTexas um pretty early on um in
our marriage.
So my girls were basicallyraised in Dallas, Texas for the
first 14 years of my oldestdaughter's life.
(02:17):
My other three were born there.
And so um, yeah, we uh foundourselves in marriage and life,
and um, I I would basically fallinto ministry by accident.
I was a guy trying to make abunch of money, and God called
me into ministry.
I took all of my calladministrative relationship
gifts and just gave it to theLord in vocational ministry.
(02:37):
That's a whole nother story foranother day.
But um winter actually wouldfeel like God was calling her to
come home early on.
And she actually uh, you know, acouple years in that she wasn't
like the baking bread um youknow, homeschool mom type of uh
type of mom.
She she felt like God called herhome, but it was a real it was
(02:57):
hard.
And so she just would embodythat scripture, delight yourself
in the Lord, he'll give you thedesires of your heart.
She actually had that scriptureon her on her prayer wall in our
closet.
And eventually God would giveher um a ministry, and she just
wanted to create a resource forour oldest daughter who was
seven at the time, and thatwould become for Girls Like You
Magazine, which has really beenlike this family ministry that
(03:19):
has been in my family now for 14years.
And so um, but yeah, the longstory short, at 38 years of age,
we were married 15 years.
Um we actually were in themiddle of a transition from
Dallas, where we've been for 14years, to Franklin, Tennessee.
I was taking on a role as anexecutive pastor um for a large
church called Church in thecity, where I'm still at, um,
(03:40):
after uh 14 years of working inwhat I call the Evans brand of
ministry.
And um, we were finishing mylast week of work.
We had already bought our housein um in Franklin.
And um, on the Tuesday of mylast week of work, Winter would
text me and say, I don't feelwell.
And I was I text back, like,what's going on?
And she never responded.
So I just went home.
(04:00):
I say home, but we were stayingat one of her family members'
guest homes.
And um anyway, we ended up um Iended up coming home and she's
doing hair with mysister-in-law, her brother's
wife, and my daughters and theirdaughters, they're all just
doing each other's hair and justkind of hanging out in the
living room.
And I took a power nap.
I got up, I remember walking byher, and she needed to take a
power nap.
(04:21):
And she was finishing um thelast book that she would author,
um, uh a prayer book for girls.
And uh she she had to work thatnight, and I just knew, like,
let her take a nap, you fixdinner.
We kind of knew each other, wedidn't have to talk at that.
And then those moments, youknow, you are when you're
married for that amount of time.
And so she laid down to take anap.
Um, I went into the bathroom tofloss my teeth because we had
(04:44):
Costco ribs, which I've nevereaten again and wanted again.
And I remember flossing my teethand looking out, and she um she
sat up and then she just slumpedover in kind of an awkward way.
And uh what I didn't realize atthe time is that she had a heart
just her heart got off rhythm,the call heart just rhythmia,
and um she collapsed, and umthat would be uh I don't know,
(05:07):
30 of the scariest minutes of mylife that um would end with her
sudden um entry into eternitywith the Lord.
And so um that began a prettycrazy journey for me.
I had four girls that were againthen 14, 11, my twins were nine.
We had already bought a house ina new town, I'd accepted a job
(05:27):
in a new town, and what's crazyabout God is he um he basically
told my oldest daughter, and shecame to me and said, Dad, uh she
said, Dad, are we this is whilewe're planning the funeral, uh
she's like, Dad, are we stillgoing to Nashville?
My boss had already told me ifyou want to sell this house and
get your stuff back to Dallas,you can.
I could have gone back into myrole.
I could have secluded down intoour family, the Evans family,
(05:49):
which is a beautiful family thatare still my family.
Um, and she said, I said, uh, wehave to pray about it, you know,
and just see what God wants.
And she said, Well, I feel likewe're supposed to go because mom
was more excited than any of us.
And so we would we would buryWinter in Dallas, and then my
girls would go to Pine CoveChristian camps, which I'm sure
a lot of your listeners arefamiliar with.
They had they already had a weekplanned to go there, so we
(06:11):
buried her.
Sorry, we did a funeral on aSaturday, we did a sunrise uh uh
burial on that Sunday morning,and then we drove my girls to
camp.
And what's really beautiful forme is um I know Pine Cove is
such a special place for us, butit was probably one of the only
places in the world I knew I Iknew I could drop my kids off,
and they would be encouraged andbuild up in truth while I could
(06:33):
also get some time to recoverfrom yeah, the most hellacious
kind of week of my life.
And so that began kind of a newjourney.
We'd we'd move on to toFranklin.
And what I what I love to say isFranklin is just like such a
wonderful place to heal.
Like people come here to heal.
And what I would say is I'vereceived um early on uh a couple
(06:53):
of really beautiful years ofgrieving and healing, and also
support to you know help with mygirls.
My sister would move in with me.
She had never been married,never had kids.
She moved in with me and becamea surrogate mom of my girls.
And um, yeah, that was abeautiful season.
And then I would eventually meetmy now wife, uh, Pita is her
name, my beautiful wife and bestfriend, which is weird to even
(07:15):
be able to say that.
Uh that's probably a mysteriouskind of saying for someone that
heard the first part of mystory, but um, God had another
plan for my life.
Um, I've been married now forfour years, and we'd have some
grief.
We lost uh we had miscarriage,we had a stillborn son, um, and
then uh at 38 weeks, which wasreally painful.
We held him in our arms and allthat and said goodbye to him.
(07:37):
And then um eventually we'd haveanother son, uh, Jonathan, my
namesake, Jonathan Joshua Arrow.
We call him Arrow.
And so now I have five children,been married for four years, 19
total years of marriage, butfour years in my current
marriage.
And God's just really faithful.
I still run for girls like you,I still pastor church the city.
Um I don't know if I'm givingyou more than when you want, but
(08:00):
um anyway, my I felt I find lifeto be really beautiful right
now, and in some ways I'm inthis place where I'm like, all
right, God, what do you havenow?
Because um I'm kind of in thissettled place now.
You know, it's weird to kind ofhave I've had really seven years
of massive transition, and nowI'm kind of like, okay, I'm in
my new life, I'm kind ofsettled, I'm raising my my I've
(08:20):
got one that's married for ayear now, I've got one that's
launched at Baylor University,I've got twins that are juniors
and a newborn baby.
So I'm I'm in a lot of seasonsat once right now, Mandy.
It's pretty crazy.
And having to, you know, it'sfunny thinking about kind of
what you do.
I've had to do um technologywith kids in a lot of different
ways over all these years.
And by the way, when I finishwith this boy, who I think is my
(08:41):
last, um, I'll have beenparenting 39 years parenting
minders, which is a lot of yearsof parenting minders.
So pray for me, I got a lot ofyears ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (08:49):
So well, and technology is changing so fast.
So how you parented your oldergirls and how you're gonna have
to parent your son is gonna lookdifferent as well.
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
I want to need all the hope in the world I can get.
SPEAKER_02 (09:02):
I got you, I got you.
Okay, so I want to unpack thisbecause you know, winter passed
suddenly.
You did not expect it, and allof a sudden you're a single dad.
And it sounds like you had agreat family support system to
help you manage that, but stillit was on you.
You were the dad.
And you were also grieving yourwife.
(09:25):
So, you know, I look at that andI think, man, how does somebody
with no faith get throughsomething like that?
Like how important was yourfaith in that time?
Because you're happy.
You're, you know, we know howthe story ends for you.
You're you're in a greatrelationship, married again, you
know, and this is amazing.
(09:46):
But but in that moment in thatdark of night when your life has
just completely blindsided youas to what you thought it would
look like.
Speak into that about your faithand and that journey with being
a single dad and helping themwalk through their grief as
well.
SPEAKER_00 (10:03):
Yeah, I mean, honestly, like I don't know what
I would have done without faith.
It's funny, I I do a lot ofpastoral um, not counseling, but
you know, obviously a lot ofpastoral conversations with
people, a lot who have lostbecause of my story, a lot of
grieving people.
And I'd say there's a starkdifference between the person
who is walking by faith and theperson who's not, because the
(10:24):
person who's walking by faithhas some level of understanding
of the purposes of God, aregrander and more mysterious than
we could have ever imaginedbefore.
And so, and I I would say to thedegree that you're more mature
in Christ, it doesn't make thepain any less.
You feel the pain, the pain isreal, the pain is there.
But there is a level, you know,I think scripture says we don't
(10:45):
grieve as those who have nohope.
Um, because that's that's trueand that's real.
So for me, like a couple thingsI want to say.
First of all, I knew by thepower of the Holy Spirit when
Turg died that God obviously hadnew purpose for me, new purpose
for my girls, new purpose foreverybody connected to her.
And that's a weird thing to bothfeel the pain of the loss of
(11:07):
someone, but also have in theback of your mind there's almost
like this, I don't want to callit cognitive dissonance, but
there is this reality of, Iguess, multiple um realities at
once, like this reality of likeI just lost the most significant
person I've ever had in my life.
Also, I know she's with theLord.
Also, I know that I knew thatshe fulfilled the purpose of,
you know, the Bible says thatDavid served the purposes of God
(11:28):
for his life.
This is in Acts, in Acts 13, Ithink.
David served the purposes of Godfor in his life for his
generation, and then he fellasleep.
And Dr.
Remens used to preach on thatall the time.
So I had like this awareness oflike, wow, like God will not
allow any of us to leave thisworld without fulfilling the
purpose that he has for us ifwe're in Christ.
And so, like, I'm like, I haveall these realities going on at
once.
And so for me, there was somelevel of like, um, I don't even
(11:51):
want to call it peace, but I dowant to call it um, maybe hope
is probably the better word.
There was this hope that God wasdoing something despite the
circumstances that werehappening.
Didn't mean there wasn't doubt,didn't mean there wasn't
wrestle, didn't mean therewasn't, there was a lot of fear.
Um, but there was like thispurpose that I felt in it.
Um, that was also really helpfuland true because I had these
(12:11):
four girls, and I knew that ifwe were gonna make it, if my
girls were gonna make it, I hadto be okay.
And so there was there, I thinkthere's this thing that God does
for parents that you you realizethat I've got this job to do,
and that job is greater thaneven myself.
Like my my ability to parentthese girls is greater than my
need to parent these girls isgreater than my need to even be
(12:32):
healthy myself.
Now, I can only be I can onlyparent them well if I'm healthy
myself.
So there's you got all thesethings going on, but I but there
was something about having mygirls that this purpose in that
that was also really fulfilling.
But I think the biggest thingfor me when it comes to my faith
is, and it comes down to onescripture, Philippians 4.8, it's
my life scripture, I think, atthis point.
Yeah, Paul says earlier,Philippians 4.4, rejoice in the
(12:53):
Lord always.
Again, I say rejoice, let yourgentleness be known to all the
Lord is near.
And then he goes on to say, uh,whatever this is Philippians
4.8, whatever is true, whateveris right, whatever is honorable,
whatever's pure, whatever'slovely, whatever's admirable, if
anything is excellent orpraiseworthy, think about these
things.
A lot of theologians would callthat the celebration or the
discipline of celebration.
Like that celebration isactually not just like something
(13:16):
we do, it's something wediscipline ourselves to do.
And we have to disciplineourselves.
Imagine Paul saying that as aprisoner to a persecuted church.
That's what was happening.
Paul was talking to a persecutedchurch, so he's not giving these
words from some mansion, youknow, in, you know, he's not
like this mega church pastorjust enjoying the vine life.
(13:36):
Like he's like this guy that'sgone through a hard time.
And so I would say those wordsfrom Paul, which were already
kind of etched on my soul,became real and necessary for me
in that moment in a way they hadnever been before.
And I'm thankful that they werethere.
I'm thankful that my parentslike literally did all they
could do to equip my siblingsand I to like just feed us the
word of God, whether we wantedor not, by the way, they were
feeding us the word of God.
(13:57):
And at some level, at somepoint, it just took root and it
took root and it took root.
And that saved my life.
I promise you, it saved my lifein the hardest moments of my
life.
And frankly, you know, it'sfunny because even with my
girls, like I would say it savedtheir lives because it saved my
life saved my life.
But ultimately, even like therewas this part of me, and I have
to acknowledge this, there'sthis part of me that is always
(14:19):
future forward focused.
It's just how God's wired me.
So, like the easier thing for mein grief, so there's two kinds
of people.
There's those of us that lookforward in grief, and we just
go, okay, I gotta keep going,productivity, all that.
And then there's those of usthat want to stay behind in
grief, and we um we want to juststay in the past.
And my counselor told me when Iwas in um grief counseling, when
(14:40):
I was like, I had thispropensity to just be like,
okay, what do I do?
What do I do?
What's next?
He said, Jonathan, you can'tlive in the future and you can't
live in the past.
All you can do is live in thepresent.
And so, anyway, that's reallybeen the desire of my my life.
I don't get it right any day,um, but it's just to live where
I'm presently at.
And I would say for for anybodywalking through grief, but
really for anybody walkingthrough life, that's like the
(15:02):
goal of our life is just to bepresent, you know.
Um, so I said more than youprobably wanted me to there, but
um, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:09):
It was beautiful, and that was a word for all of
us because we all to be present,no matter what we have going on.
We all have mountains andvalleys that we're we're on in
this life.
SPEAKER_00 (15:18):
Yeah, and our in our age, it's probably both at the
same time, pretty much uh allthe time.
It's like there's mountains andvalleys at the same time that
we're having to navigate.
So that's a good point.
SPEAKER_02 (15:28):
That is absolutely true.
Um okay, so you're you'regrieving and that's a process,
and you're single dadding, andyou know, you're doing all of
this with the Lord's drink.
And then you meet PETA.
And help me walk me through thatbecause I immediately go to
happiness for you, but alsolike, oh, your girls, how did
(15:50):
that, how did that, how did theyhandle that?
SPEAKER_00 (15:53):
Yeah.
Yeah, I would say um familyblending.
I think this is true.
I say it all the time now, but Ithink it's true, that family
blending for me was scarier thanwalking with my girls through
grief because with grief, mygirls and I were on the same
team.
We're all grieving differently,and there was like this, there
(16:15):
was the biggest challenge ingrief is I have to give my girls
space to grief differently thanI did grieve.
And some are slower, some aremore angry, some are more
withdrawn, where I'm more vocal.
Um, so that was there was like aleadership in walking through
grief, but we were all on thesame page.
We had all lost the same personthat was the most important
person in our life to thatpoint.
(16:36):
And then all of a sudden, I meetthe person who uh is quickly
becoming the most importantperson in my life.
And I'm realizing that I'm like,I'm falling in love with this
person, and and this person isheaven sent to me.
Like, I can tell like God'sdoing this.
But that's not the same for notjust my girls, but anybody else
in my life.
For everybody else in my lifethat knew Winter, there's this
(16:59):
new person that really changesthe story in a way that I would
say most people weren'tcomfortable with.
And by the way, like even forme, like I was a bit
uncomfortable with because insome ways, like I've got, you
know, I've got this relationshipwith a person that I love, 15
years of marriage.
And the hard thing is, and thisis, I don't know, maybe some of
the other listeners haveexperienced this, like, you
(17:21):
know, oneness is I'd say onenessis kind of threefold.
I'm not a I'm not like apsychologist or I'm not a I'm
I'm I don't have the degrees tosay this, but I would say
oneness is physical, oneness isum emotional, and oneness is
spiritual.
So when Winter died physically,we were no longer one.
But the process of likeemotionally and spiritually
(17:43):
becoming unone with somebody,which has to happen because you
can't become one with anotherperson on this earth if you're
one with the person that passed.
So like I had all this work todo emotionally and spiritually,
which spiritually I say istrusting God, like trusting God
that He He gives and He takesaway.
Blessed be the name of the Lord.
Like, you know, think about yourvows in marriage, like until
(18:04):
death do us part.
You know, you have all thesethings that you say that you
don't realize until you have torealize, like, oh, that's now
ending.
And I have to trust, I have totrust winter into the hands of
the Lord, and I have to trustthat if God's giving me this new
assignment, then I have to goall in on this oneness.
And that's a process, and that'sgrievous for me.
Uh, that's grievous for thosearound me.
And so um, yeah, that was um thething that I learned uh in in
(18:27):
losing winter.
I I had to go, I'll always be adad leading through grief.
And that was more true in um thefamily blending than it's ever
been true.
Like that was the biggestdecision I made that invoked
grief, not just for my girls,but for everybody around me.
And me, by the way, and and mymy now wife.
Like it invokes grief for all ofus because you have to reconcile
(18:47):
with this world that we don'treally understand, these
mysteries we don't understand.
And so that was a challenge.
Um, you know, we're four yearsin now, and what I would say is
God is so faithful and so good,and our family is closer than
we've ever been.
You know, obviously there's lotsof insecurity and fear, and I
would also say there's um forall of us, I want to be careful
(19:11):
how I say it, but I think forall of us, including me, we
can't help but make um idols outof even our own identity, who we
are, who we think we are.
And God's always coming forthat.
He's always breaking down likeanything that we put our
identity in beyond him.
And that can be our marriage,that can be our children, that
can be the type of family wehave, that can be our family
(19:33):
structure.
And so I would just say thatGod, um, in his kindness, but
also in his wild, scary nature,he came for a lot of that in us.
And um, you know, he's alwaysdoing a new thing, and for us to
do the new thing with him, wealso we have to be willing to
let the old thing go.
And I'm not saying like winter,like winter is with the Lord,
(19:55):
and she's always a part of ourfamily in some mysterious
kingdom way, but like he's doingsomething new, and to follow him
the new thing, we have toactually die to ourselves.
We have to die to what wethought our life was going to
be.
And so I was the guy leading myentire family through that in
some ways still, you know, likewe're always leading through
that.
Um, but what I can say is um Inever imagined my family being
(20:19):
as whole and healthy as we arenow, even though we're all
different.
Like my girls are very differentthan each other, like
everything's different, we'reall different, and there's gotta
just be grace for that, youknow.
But I would say like what wehave, like we've got this very
great diversity of people in ourfamily, but this great unity in
our family.
And I would say um my son hasprobably been kind of the icing
(20:39):
on the cake for that.
Like he's he's blood with me,he's blood with his sisters,
he's blood with my wife.
So he kind of he's like thisunifying force in our family
that I'm really grateful for.
So I'm grateful for him beyondthat, but I'm grateful for for
how that he was a big part ofthat.
SPEAKER_02 (20:54):
How God is using him in that way to kind of to kind
of bring you guys all together.
You know, we're big around hereat Next Talk about open
communication and having ahealthy dialogue.
And I just, as I listened to youspeak, with all these moving
parts and all these emotions andyou said we we all processed
grief differently.
Some of us were more vocal, someof us got quiet, some of us, and
(21:15):
then all of a sudden you startdating and you fall in love
again, all these moving parts,and then still grieving every
day for winter.
How important was maintaining ahealthy dialogue and that open
conversation in yourrelationships with all of these
moving parts within your family?
SPEAKER_00 (21:35):
Yeah, really important.
Um, after winter passed away,there were some things I was
like probably too honest with mygirls in, like bring almost
bringing them into decisionmaking, because I'm like, all of
a sudden I don't have mypartner.
And I'm like, I remember like attimes asking my oldest daughter,
like, hey, what do you thinkabout what we should do here
with your younger sister?
And I'll never I'm so gratefulfor a wise oldest daughter
because she's like, Dad, I don'tknow.
(21:57):
I don't feel like I can help youwith that.
It's just like I in some ways Iwas inviting my girls into too
much, but in other ways therewere there, like it was funny,
especially around dating.
There was a there was a momentwhere I was trying to actually
keep my girls um out of my life,so to say, and it backfired.
And I'll spare I'll spare youthe story, but it was um it was
it was a difficult moment.
(22:19):
And so I had this moment with mygirls where I just determined to
be honest with them about thethings that I needed to be
really honest with them about,and then obviously be thoughtful
as a parent in what's nothelpful for my kids to know
about you know my decisionmaking.
And so that it's all it's alwaysa tricky balance because that
depends on the age of yourchild, that depends on the
maturity of your child, thatdepends on the nature of the
(22:41):
thing that you're thinkingabout.
Uh, I'm really grateful withwith my wife with PETA.
Before we did that, we actuallyhad friends that felt like the
Lord was telling them tointroduce us, a common friend.
And um, the morning I was gonnameet her on a Zoom call.
And this COVID, I'm uh I'm inI'm a pastor in uh in in
Franklin, Tennessee, and my wifeis this Australian actor in in
(23:02):
LA, and I'm just like, we havenothing in common.
We don't know anybody in commonexcept this one person.
I'm nervous out of my mind.
I remember walking outside atlike 5 a.m.
I can't sleep, and my daughter'sout there journaling, my oldest
daughter.
And I remember just had havingmade this conscious decision to
say, I'm gonna let I'm gonna lether know that um I'm having this
conversation um with this woman.
I'm I don't I don't know what'sgonna happen.
I'm just having thisconversation.
(23:23):
And I it was really cold becauseI felt like our like my
relationship with PETA startedwith like this really this very
honest place with my daughter,just being like, I don't know
what's gonna happen, but I'mtalking to this woman, and would
share that with my youngerdaughters as well.
And so it I I wouldn't say itmade it not I wouldn't say it
made it easy.
It wasn't easy, but um, but I dothink like honesty is important.
I think discernment's importantand how we talk about the things
(23:46):
that we need to talk about withour kids.
I've never gotten it perfect.
So the thing that I've alwaysbeen sure to do is always go
back if I've said somethingwrong, if I've said something in
the wrong energy, the wrongemotion, out of fear.
Like I always go back, Iapologize to my girls, I own it,
you know.
I ask them how they receivecertain things, you know.
So it's been this is a hardthing to talk about because I I
(24:07):
think from the sake of mydaughters, I try to spare, you
know, specific things, you know,in a way.
Um, but yeah, I've I've I've hadto do a lot of recovery with my
girls.
Um, and that's throughconversation and through
admitting error, admittingfault, admitting, hey dad didn't
say that perfect.
I didn't react perfect to howyou reacted to what I said.
You know, it's like there's somuch that you know, there's so
(24:30):
much immaturity that's broughtout in us based on the
immaturity of our kids.
And I think when it surfaces, wehave to be willing to actually
acknowledge that.
And yeah, that's been that'sbeen a journey.
And really loss and then familyblending has has brought that to
the surface in a way that Inever even thought possible
because it's such a vulnerableplace and there's so much
emotion around it.
(24:51):
I mean, there's there's so muchemotion around family blending.
I I I honestly I don't know howfamilies do it, you know.
Um, I've done it now and I stilldon't know how families do it.
I really feel like it's only bythe power of the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_02 (25:02):
Well, I one of the things that you said when you
answered that was beingvulnerable.
And I think that you portraythat beautifully in the sense of
I don't always get it right, butI'm just honest.
Like this is me trying to figureeverything out right now with
with my life and where we'regoing as a family.
And I think that is thrive onthat, I believe, because they
(25:24):
see so much fake on socialmedia, right?
They see it.
People post one way, live inlife a different way, a double
life.
And the more authentic andvulnerable we can be at home,
even when we don't get it right,but just going back and like you
said, apologizing, that rightthere is relationship-building
gold to me.
You know, just the authentic andthe vulnerability side.
SPEAKER_00 (25:47):
Yeah, but you make a good point.
I think the integrity of what wesay and the way we live is is
the most important thing.
And like I think about my ownchildhood and my parents who
weren't perfect, but amazing,godly couple, been married 50
years.
The thing that kept me in thefaith, even when I questioned,
even when I, you know, wrestledwith like even um rebellion, was
(26:10):
my parents were very um, therewas a real integrity between
what they said.
And I don't mean integrity inthe way we think about it, I
mean integrity as in like therewas a consistency between what
they said and how they lived.
And so I've always sought tolike try to really be that um
and model that.
So even like when it comes tolike there's a time and point
where we as parents have to makedecisions.
We have to make decisions aroundam I gonna give my kid a phone?
(26:33):
Uh, am I gonna allow my kid todate?
Whatever the thing is, we haveto make decisions.
And I think the most importantthing when we make a decision is
we have to we also have to havea conviction about our decision.
But if our kids know thatthere's an integrity between how
we live and what we say, I thinkit makes a massive difference.
Where otherwise they're justlike, you can't even manage your
own life.
Why are you trying to manage myyou know?
(26:54):
They don't say that, but I thinkthat's kind of like in the
background, the hum.
SPEAKER_02 (26:58):
Well, I think that's, you know, I mean, in my
personal opinion, Christianparents, that's how we mess up
our kids the most.
When we look a certain way atchurch and we don't live it out
in our home in private when theysee us behind closed doors, like
how we treat people, how we talkabout people, how everything.
Like that's the Jesus that we'reliving out, if we're claiming
Jesus.
(27:19):
And so I think you're so onthere with the integrity.
And I love how you point it out.
I think that's a word for all ofus that even when you struggled
with your faith as a as a youngguy, that you would maintain the
integrity that you saw behindthe closed doors with your
parents.
And it it it spoke something toyou, it did something to your
(27:39):
faith, it solidified it.
SPEAKER_00 (27:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (27:43):
I think it's a call for all of us to make sure we
don't we we have a saying aroundhere, look in the mirror, see
what you're doing wrong, and fixit because how important is that
in building the relationshipwith your kid?
And I think that's exactly whatyou're saying.
Any other parting words ofwisdom to anybody out there
blending a family or walkingthrough grief or a single dad
(28:04):
season?
Any any other words of wisdom?
SPEAKER_00 (28:07):
Yeah, I think there's lots I could say, but I
think um what I want toencourage anybody that's walking
through, whatever that seasonis, is just to own the season.
You know, like there's thisreality.
Like when I when I finally,because the hardest thing for
me, I never realized I was angryand in loss or in my in my grief
because I didn't have rage.
(28:28):
But anytime something happenedthat I didn't like in that in
that grief, I would say, Ididn't ask for this.
I didn't ask for this.
And finally, my counselor wouldsay, Hey, just so you know,
that's like that's that'sactually anger surfacing.
And like, it's good becausethat's a part of the process.
Um, but long story short, when Idecided that like that when I
finally had that anger, I had tomake this decision, okay, what
(28:50):
am I going to do with this?
And then there's a benefit toanger.
Um and for me, that benefit wasactually being willing to just
like be where I am and have tofigure out how do I do this, how
do I live this.
And for me, it was like Istarted to say to myself this
other phrase, you'll always be adad leading through grief.
Like I just like accepted thereality of where I am.
(29:11):
You'll always be a dad leadingthrough grief.
And so when something wouldsurface out of grief, I I no
longer gave myself the right tojust like be bothered.
So like, no, this is where I am,this is what I'm doing.
I'll always be a dad leadingthrough grief.
In the same way, I I I've neverreally vocalized this, I didn't
I didn't have to say it becauseI knew it to be true.
Like, I'll always be a dadleading through blending.
Like I'm I'm leading through theblending of a family.
(29:33):
I'm sure, uh and I've alreadyexperienced it, like weddings
and all these important dateswhere mom's not going to be
there, winter's not gonna bethere, and life looks different
than you thought it would be,and then what you wanted.
And there's just like this weirdtension that you have to walk
through.
And so no matter what you'regoing through, like there's
gonna be this tension you haveto walk through.
(29:53):
And I would say the more you canactually just accept the
circumstance you're in, trustingthat God can actually enter that
circumstance.
The better off you're gonna be,rather than despising it, rather
than being bitter about it.
That's a choice.
Like I can be bitter.
Like I had even when I marriedPETA, there were moments where I
had people reacting to what Iwas walking into in ways that
I'm like, man, that doesn't feelgodly or kind or helpful.
(30:16):
And it and I had to actuallyjust be okay, I had to embrace
it and be like, okay, I'm I'mI'm leading through grief in
this moment.
So like this is the leadershipthat God is that that God has
put me here.
It's not it's not my doing, Godhas put me here.
So how do I actually justembrace that and walk in it in a
way um that's pleasing to God?
So um yeah, just embrace whereyou're at.
SPEAKER_02 (30:37):
That's a word for anyone, you know, own the
season.
I I loved how you said that.
How can people contact you?
And and also let's talk aboutfor girls like you as we wrap
up, too.
It's it's a magazine for twingirls, and it it's still going
strong.
SPEAKER_00 (30:52):
Yeah, we've got thousands of girls across the
country, every state in thecountry, all around the
English-speaking world, but it'sa it's a print magazine.
So it comes in the mail in yourdaughter's name bi-monthly, so
every other month um themagazine comes out and it's for
twin girls.
So we say like a mature seven,eight-year-old that has can read
at a pretty high level, up to12.
(31:12):
And you know, we have some girlsthat read beyond that, but it
just really depends on kind ofthe maturity of that girl.
Um, but yeah, it's every othermonth.
And uh I think um if theysubscribe, uh with a discount
code.
What is that, man?
Oh, next talk 20, 20% off, nexttalk 20.
But it's really content forgirls trying to encourage them
in their faith and comealongside families to support
(31:33):
them, Christian families andraising Christian girls.
So it's gonna be encouragement,age appropriate.
You know, we're not coming attopics that you know an eight,
nine, ten-year-old's not able todigest and think about.
So we want the parent to beleading that.
But outside of that, I'm atChurch of the City, I'm a pastor
at Church of the City, I lovepastoring here.
So if you ever find yourself inFranklin, Tennessee, you could
um come out and visit ourchurch.
(31:55):
But um, you can also find me atuh Instagram's kind of where I
where I live on social.
So it's PittsJr26.
That's my Instagram.
And then for girls like you,it's at for F-O-R for Girls Like
You.
And that's kind of all thesocial handles for girls like
you.
So I'm grateful to have joinedyou, Mandy.
SPEAKER_02 (32:12):
Well, I thank you for all you're doing for the
kingdom of God, your ministries,and um man, the the amazing
family that you're raising.
SPEAKER_00 (32:20):
Uh well, thank you.
Um I count myself privileged tohave my beautiful girls, my
wife, my daughter, it's it's ormy son.
It's it's it's all pretty much agift from God.
So grateful.
SPEAKER_02 (32:30):
So thank you for sharing your journey with us.
SPEAKER_01 (32:33):
Thanks, Mandy.
Next Talk is a 501c3 nonprofitkeeping kids safe online.
To support our work, make adonation at next talk.org.
Next talk resources are notintended to replace the advice
of a trained healthcare or legalprofessional, or to diagnose,
treat, or otherwise renderexpert advice regarding any type
of medical, psychological,legal, financial, or other
problem.
You are advised to consult aqualified expert for your
(32:55):
personal treatment plan.
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