November 18, 2024 • 45 mins
Brian Montgomery lost his 16-year-old son and then was diagnosed with cancer. Each day, he still gets up and keeps going. How does he do it? If you are struggling – we hope this show will be helpful to you.
KEEPING KIDS SAFE ONLINE
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast.
We are passionate about keepingkids safe in an overexposed
world.
We are joined today by BrianMontgomery so glad to have him
back on the podcast.
Many of you know him and hisstory, brian.
I'm going to let you take aminute, though, to introduce
(00:22):
yourself for any of our newlisteners who may not know how
we met and why you're here,really, what your story is.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah, yeah, sure, we appreciate you having us again.
And the way this relationshipstarted was the loss of our son,
walker.
Walker was a victim ofsextortion on December 1st of
2022 and took his own life andright away, we had no idea why
Walker would do this.
(00:51):
I mean, we're just a normalfamily and Walker had a great
social life, had no suicidaltendencies, and we were just at
a loss.
Um, and we just we were just ata loss.
And once we I don't know it wasprobably eight weeks after
learning of what happened toWalker, um, over eight weeks
after, after he passed away, welearned what happened and what,
(01:12):
and you know what thecircumstances were that caused
him to think he needed to dothat.
And, and, um, you know westarted.
We had an interview on Fox newsand that the word started to
spread that we were talkingabout it and you guys contacted
us about doing a podcast and youwere one of the first podcasts
that we did.
That I did and it was.
(01:33):
I mean, it was a great assetfor our family Number one that
your listeners and your NextTalk team was right there with
us, comforting us and prayingfor us and gave us a platform to
share that message because weknew how important that was to
get out.
And so we over the last twoyears going on two years we've
(01:56):
been on multiple times andtalked about different topics
and we just appreciate the NextTalk listeners and all of your
staff and of course you, mandyand Kim, for you know, helping
us through this phase of ourlife.
So that's kind of what happened.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Well, and we'll link the podcast, that original
podcast, with you so if peopledon't know your story they can
go listen to that.
But it was a sextortion.
We had worked a lot ofsextortion cases at Next Talk
but a lot of them were over aweek's, month's periods of
blackmail.
You know I have this picture ofyou.
If you don't do this, send methis money, that kind of thing.
(02:33):
And it always gave the kidstime to think it through and
process it and try and seek help.
And with Walker, the Predatorsgot super smart on how to put
these kids in a corner and panicand we had never seen anything
like it Just a couple hoursbetween the extortion scheme
(02:55):
started and then we lost Walker.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
A couple hours.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And I guess we know all this because of the FBI and
their investigation and goingthrough the phone.
That's how you found out whatactually happened, but it was
something we had never seenbefore and it really shifted to
with him not having any mentalhealth issues, any red flags.
It's like you also have toshift as a parent, not only how
you think about sextortion buthow you think about suicide,
(03:21):
because we're losing kids withnone of the traditional red flag
mental health issues to theseschemes, and so at next talk, we
really wanted to shine a lighton that and you were so brave to
come on and after you sharedyour story, so many families
contacted us that this samescheme had happened to their
kids, and so that was.
I thought this was a raresituation.
(03:43):
It took me off guard that wehad so many people contacting us
.
But now you you know you'vewalked through a cancer
diagnosis, but you also traveland you speak and you share
Walker's story.
You've been in DC working onthe kids online safety act.
You've been trying to raiseawareness in all these different
areas.
Also, you have for ourlisteners who don't know you,
(04:04):
you're married to sweet Courtneyand you have three other
children also Walker and threeother children correct.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Courtney and I were married.
We've been married, like I said, 25, 26 years and just a
fairytale marriage.
We have a great relationshipWith Walker.
We have four kids, two boys andtwo girls, and so, after losing
Walker, of course you know it'sbeen a, it's a new life for all
of us, and our kids have beenat the center of that as well.
(04:35):
You know trying to be, continueto be, you know, parents to
them and lead them in a waythat's godly, in a way that's
going to prepare them for theirfutures.
So it's been a challenge.
And then to compound that, likeyou said, a cancer diagnosis in
September of 23,.
It's just been quite a journey,but we know that God's got a
(05:01):
plan for this.
We know that he's using it toaffect others, something that we
could not have done on our own,or without these hardships we
couldn't have done.
So, on one hand, we're thankful, but we're careful to say how
thankful we are, because we needa little relief.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Well, and I want to talk about that today Parenting
through grief, pain, trauma.
You guys have been through itall.
You've lost a child, and thenthe health situation and, um,
you know the thought that comesto mind when I see you and
you're still speaking and you'restill raising awareness and,
you know, fighting for new laws.
Um, the thing that I alwaysthink is, you know, he he's just
(05:39):
such a good dad in a leader inthe household to keep going and
he keeps going for his wife andhis kids.
But tell me about that, whatdoes keep you going, Brian?
Because from the outside,looking in, that's my perception
of you.
But tell me what keeps yougoing.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, it's 100% our faith.
I mean Courtney and I both havetalked about it over and over
again 100% our faith.
I mean Courtney and I both havetalked about it over and over
again and just continue to tryto encourage one another.
That you know, I can't be thedad I need to be, or the husband
I need to be for Courtney orfor my kids, and I can't.
If you look at life through atemporal perspective, you know
(06:20):
all these catastrophes wouldovertake you, because it's you
know.
If you just think about life asyou're born and you live a life
and you accomplish things andyou have relationships, and then
you die and it's over, wellthen that perspective I can't
relate to how you can keep goingin circumstances like these,
(06:44):
and so that's obviously not ourperspective.
Our perspective is from aneternal standpoint and we
believe that we'll see Walkeragain.
We believe that this life is avery minimal part of eternity,
that God has prepared a placefor us, just like he promised us
in his word that he would, andthat Walker is in that place
right now.
Place for us, just like hepromised us in his word that he
(07:05):
would, and that Walker is inthat place right now, um, and
that we're, uh, we're, we're.
Our job here is to help enlargethat kingdom and um, and so you
know how that, how we do thatis is different for everybody,
but, uh, we're confident thatthe circumstances God has
brought us through is is hasbeen a a process of process of
sharpening our sword for thisbattle that we're in in life.
(07:27):
And I think that you knowthat's not a fun perspective
sometimes.
I mean, it's more fun to thinkabout the football game on the
weekend or, you know, thebaseball tournament or whatever
the things that we all havegoing on, and those things are
fun.
But God has a plan for us totruly carry on a spiritual
battle here on this earth andthat perspective is what keeps
(07:49):
us moving in the right direction, I believe.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Your faith is so strong and I hear that in you
Was there a time that youquestioned or you wavered in
your flesh of why?
Why does this have to happen tous Like I?
Can you speak into that?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
You know there's glimpses of that all the time.
I mean there's a daily, there'sa daily fight to to recenter on
that promise.
Uh, daily I mean that, andsometimes that can be hourly.
I mean it really just dependson the circumstances of life.
But you know, I tell peoplesometimes we don't have these
(08:29):
conversations, quite oftenbecause it's pretty difficult.
But you know, the night thatwould have been within the first
24 hours of Lizzie Walker, Imean we were dark, really dark
place, and so, um, you know thatthat was a time where you know
lots of questions about ourfaith, lots of questions about
(08:50):
eternity, lots of questionsabout why us, why Walker, um,
but God didn't leave us thereand and that's, I think that's
that's the um, that's the God weserve.
I mean he, he is not going toleave us in a place anywhere.
He hadn't left us.
(09:10):
Then I think that that was apoint where God was asking do
you believe what you say?
You believe and I say thatoften is we?
You know, we say we believe ineternity, we say we believe that
Christ is the center ofeverything that we do, and you
(09:31):
know how we behave and how wereact, and the things we say and
do are a reflection of what webelieve and you know that point
in life where we were, I'll saywhere I was um.
You know that first, 24 hoursafter losing Walker was um.
Is is close to what I thinkhell would be like, as I can
(09:54):
imagine.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Thank you for sharing that.
Um, it's almost like hard tomove past that.
Because it's like hard to movepast that, because it's like
it's such a moment I mean Ican't, yeah.
And and here you are, um, beingstrong and doing all these
things, and I see that the innerstrength comes from somebody
(10:17):
power more powerful than you,and I think that's that's the.
The cool thing that I see is isis God, you having that
foundation of God being able tocarry you through the darkest of
moments?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, I just I want to encourage because I think
that's the goal of thisconversation you and I are
having is that parent that's outthere that's living in this
grief.
You know, I don't want to thinkabout it as grief.
I want to think about it asthere's a period of time where I
miss Walker.
I mean that's what it is.
(10:53):
I miss him.
And even though I miss him,though, I know that he's safe, I
mean he's well taken care of.
But I don't think, if you're aparent that doesn't share this
faith that we are blessed with,you can have that perspective.
I think you've got toacknowledge and I had to
(11:14):
acknowledge it, I had toacknowledge it.
Even in that night I wasdescribing that how am I
behaving here?
I'm behaving as if I don'tbelieve this.
How am I behaving here?
I'm behaving as if I don'tbelieve this, and it was such a
confusion of emotions andthoughts and ideas.
And I've said before, in thisspiritual battle, satan is
(11:35):
sitting there feeding you withlies, the same lies he fed
Walker.
And that person, that parentout there, or sibling, or
whoever that's experienced thisextensive loss and is having to
walk through grief, if you don'thave that faith to latch on to.
I don't see how it's doable.
I've said this before I don'twant people to see us as a
(11:58):
victim.
I don't see ourselves asvictims.
Sometimes you can get thatmentality, but I don't see
ourselves as victims.
Sometimes you can get thatmentality, but I don't see
ourselves as victims.
I see us as victims, I see us aswarriors in a battle.
And this war, this battle, ishard.
It comes with casualties, itcomes with injuries, it comes
with all kinds of risk, butfortunately, the person in
(12:22):
Christ that is leading usthrough this battle has all the
power and has all the ability tosee us through it.
And and um, I've got to latchonto that and I have to latch
onto that daily, uh,intentionally, um, and without
that I just, I just don't knowhow.
I don't know how you can moveforward, and I know there's a
lot of parents that I'veencountered that are not
Christians, and I'm not.
I'm not saying that from ajudgmental perspective, but to
(12:46):
be functional as a real causalagent, especially when you start
thinking about it from aneternal standpoint and affecting
the kingdom.
That's how we move forward.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, I think that reminds me of the Bible verse
that we will face trouble inthis world.
We will 100%.
We weren't promised thateverything is going to be great.
In fact, following Jesus isgoing to be harder than not
right Because of the persecutionand the troubles that will come
our way.
I think for our listeners outthere who may not have a
(13:20):
relationship with Jesus, I thinkwhat I want to do is like just
give them hope that that thatthat it's available to you, like
you could like you can pray toreceive Jesus.
If you've been mad at him, ifyou've blamed it he, that's fine
because that's our flag.
That's normal processing, Don'tyou think I mean?
(13:40):
What would you say to thatperson out there that is like I
don't have a relationship withJesus, I'm mad at Jesus because
he took my kid.
I'm done.
What would you say to thatperson if you were having coffee
with them right now?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
God has the infinite ability to forgive and forget.
I mean, that's what he's allabout, is forgiveness.
That's his absolute core, andwhere that originates from is
his ability to loveunconditionally, and that's
where that originates from, ishis ability to love
unconditionally and that's wherethat originates from God.
That's who he is.
I mean, he created us out oflove, he directs us out of love,
he sets his commandments out oflove.
(14:13):
All those, everything thatoriginates from God's character.
Despite what some people in ourculture would try to point to,
god is love, and so that allowshim to forgive us for whatever
we've done, and he was temptedat all points, just as we are.
(14:34):
So there's nothing that we'vedone, nothing that we've
encountered, no feeling thatwe've had that he didn't have
whenever he was walking on thisearth, and I think that's for a
purpose.
That purpose was to show usthat, brian, you're not alone in
this.
I know right where you're at.
I know exactly where you're atand where I've.
You know, the story that comesto mind often is, you know, with
(14:58):
Christ and with Jesus andLazarus.
You know Lazarus was a reallyimportant person to Jesus and
you know Jesus knew what wasgoing to happen.
I mean, the story was that theycame to Jesus and told him that
you know, lazarus is sick, andthese are people that are really
important to Jesus personallyas he lived on this earth and so
, basically, jesus delayed andallowed Lazarus to die, and when
(15:23):
he gets there, he knew that hewas going to raise Lazarus from
the dead.
This was not something that wasa revelation to him, but he
still wept.
Why did he weep?
It wasn't because he didn'tthink he was going to see
Lazarus again, because he sawthe pain that the people around
him had to experience for thispoint to be made of the power
that he held.
And so I just as that parent is, you know, and I see that for
(15:47):
myself is I think that Jesuslooks at me and says Brian, I'm
sorry, but this is something yougot to contend with.
I mean I, but it's not.
It's not forever.
You know it's not forever and Iknow how you feel, because I
cried too.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, I think you know.
the promise of scripture is notthat we, that we're going to
avoid pain, but but that he'llbe with us, that he'll carry us
through the pain, that he won'tever leave us in the in the
darkest of moments, or whateverwe're walking through or
whatever questions we have, hewon't leave us, and I think that
is just the true peace thatsurpasses all understanding that
we talk about with scripture,that we see in you.
(16:26):
You've gone through all of thisstuff and there's a peace and a
stability in you even still,and that's the God in you.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah Well, I've said this before too.
And that's the God in you yeahWell, I've said this before too.
And a lot of the things we talkabout here are things that I
aspire to do and aspire to be.
I don't have it figured out.
This is a daily struggle.
It's kind of like knowing theanswer, but knowing the answer
(16:54):
is just part of it.
Knowing how to behave, knowinghow to think, knowing how to
feel that doesn't change wherethose real feelings come from
and how things get sidetracked.
I think about, I want the world, the life we had before.
Any of this is what I want,that's what my flesh wants and
that's what my family wants.
I think that's a perfectlynatural desire, but God
(17:15):
continually reminds me that,brian, that's what you want, but
that is an earthly desire, andwhat I want you to want is to
impact my kingdom, because youhave a phenomenal opportunity to
do that, and it's hard to thinkof these circumstances as
opportunities, but when you lookat everybody that Christ used,
that God used throughout thescripture, he used them in
(17:38):
difficult circumstances and theyhad to go through those
difficult circumstances to beusable by God, and so he reminds
me of that often.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Well, I think that's why our audience and just us at
Next Talk, it's just been a youknow, we relate to you so much.
It's that I know the answer,but I'm a work in progress,
cause we that's kind of been ourphilosophy this whole time of
parenting a phone, of keepingkids safe online.
It's all an experiment.
Nobody really can be called anexpert on this.
(18:08):
We're the first generation,right, and so that's one of the
things that next talk that we'vealways said is we're learning,
we're telling you what as welearn, but but it's a process.
It's a process here and I think, as you have processed your
grief, that's that's the same.
Um, you know way you'veapproached it too.
I mean, I know the answer, Iknow who, who's in charge, but
(18:29):
but this is a fleshly process ofwalking through this.
I can only imagine you knowcause you're processing your
pain, you're helping your wifeprocess her pain and you've got
three kids processing that theylost their brother.
And also, I guess the mom in mejust feels like this is such a
(18:53):
shocking thing that happened toWalker.
I mean, it was such a shockingthing back then.
Nobody had really ever heard ofit back then at this timeframe
and it was a.
It was a new whoa, whoa, whoa,wait a minute.
To me in my mom brain I wouldhave been, like become so
overprotective of my kids Iwouldn't want them to leave the
house.
I would have thrown away allthe phones, like like, tell us
(19:16):
how.
What?
Your response to all of that,just on a normal parenting
journey of I've got three kids,that I'm, that I'm still
parenting every day, and how youdidn't swing the pendulum so
far in in being afraid, I guess.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, that's and that's a.
You know, that is, thattendency is absolutely there,
because, but, but I, you know, Ithink that, but I think that
there's two points I would makerelative to that.
One is we can't—I mean, yousaid right at the end you're
afraid and we can't be drivenout of fear.
Our actions can't be drivenbased on fear.
(19:54):
Our actions can't be drivenbased on fear, and I think
that's that's a, that's a cleardirective in scripture, that
that, um, we should not fear andthat God is in control and that
our fear, um, you know and I'mnot saying that we, that we
shouldn't fear because of ourown abilities, but we've got to
not fear because of hisabilities, and so, um, we can't,
I can't and Courtney can't,parent out of fear of what
(20:17):
happened to Walker, you know,overreact to those, to our other
kids and the other side.
The other point is balance.
You know, are there morerestrictions now than there were
before?
Sure, yeah, absolutely.
I mean there's things I didn'tknow.
I mean there's things that Ididn't understand.
There's the seriousness of theworld we live in, you know, has
(20:41):
completely changed and for us tojust act like things are just
like they always have would beirresponsible.
And that balance and how weapproach discipline, how we
approach the things that we wantto protect our kids from, is
(21:02):
what we've done there, and it'scertainly not perfect, because I
can see the look on people'seyes.
I've been in a lot of differentmeetings.
They say, well, do your kidsstill have social media?
Well, bennett does not.
Bennett's just turned 15.
Probably fixing to have tocross that bridge with him I was
(21:24):
freeing into.
Everybody has some connectionto social media.
Sarah is 13.
She does not.
Our 20-year-old, of course,she's grown, you know, and she
came through before any of thiseven happened.
So we've got some work to do onall of those.
But what I tell parents numberone is if we think that we're
going to just, you know,completely take it away from our
(21:45):
kids, number one we're going toset them at a really severe
disadvantage competitively inthe society we live in.
Communication is going to beconducted through tech.
I mean, we can like it or not,that horse is out of the stable.
It's going to be conductedthrough tech.
I mean, we can like it or not,that horse is out of the stable,
it's going to happen.
And so, if I know, that dangeris still going to be there when
they turn 18, I need to start.
(22:05):
I mean, just, there's all kindsof things we educate as parents,
we want to put into oureducational planning.
To educate our parents I meanour kids about whether it was
drugs or alcohol or, you know,premarital sex or you fill in
the blank all those things thatwe need to be educating, you
know about.
This is one of those, and it'sgoing to be here and us thinking
(22:27):
that we can just, you know,exclude it from our lives, I
think is number one.
It's going to create a lot ofdivision in our family.
We're just going to not, we'renot going to parent based on
fear, and we're going tocontinue to be vigilant, but
we're going to continue to loveour kids and try to educate them
.
I think that's the end of theday.
(22:48):
They've got to understand thatthere's things here that are
dangerous.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Was there ever a moment where you were like,
let's just go dark and not talkabout this and we don't want to
put it out there and let'sprotect our kids?
I mean, I could see the draw ofthat, even though I feel like
God commands us to bring thingsinto the light because we can't
address things we don't know.
But was there ever a moment ora temptation to be like let's
(23:14):
just not talk about this anymore?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Not really moment, or a temptation to be like let's
just not talk about this anymore.
Not really.
I mean, you know, I guessthat's probably part of why
we're in this situation, justfrom a standpoint of who we are
and who you know, what our, whatmy personality is like, you
know?
I mean, I, I really, uh, that'sthat's.
I'm a straightforward, alwaysbeen that way.
Just try to try to be astransparent as possible.
I think we can avoid a lot ofproblems that way, and
(23:37):
pretending something didn'thappen doesn't make it not
happen.
And I also felt the need to,even though Walker did what he
did, I felt the need to defendWalker in terms of how this
happened.
I mean, I think, you know, hadthere been no communication, it
would have left a lot toquestion about.
You know who we are as parents,what kind of family we are,
(24:01):
what kind of person Walker was.
We knew that that was not thecase.
We knew who Walker was, we knewhis character, we knew his
personality, we knew all thatabout him and I think I felt
some need to defend that thatWalker was victimized.
Walker fell victim to a, youknow, a scheme and somebody that
was a predator.
(24:22):
Have we gotten?
Have there been times where wewere tired of talking about it?
Yes, absolutely there's.
There's been times where it'sjust like I just I'm just I'm
just tired.
You know, I'm tired of thisbeing the central focus of our
family and and we've triedreally hard to not let this be
you know everything, you knowour kids, you know, for our
(24:42):
other kids, I mean I could seewhere that could be.
It could become resentful, youknow.
Uh, they could, they could,they could start to resent this
as being the change you know,because I mean they're still
teenagers, right, I mean they'rethey, and I could see where
kids could get there, butfortunately they, they haven't,
and they have encouraged us tocontinue this fight, and I also
(25:02):
think it's prepared them forbeing better citizens.
I think that better people, youknow, I think they're going to
be, they're going to see how tohandle adversity better than
most, and so I think it's, Ithink, as hard as it's been, I
think it's going to be a goodattribute to their personalities
.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
You, know, walking through fire.
It develops character, itdevelops perseverance and
strength, and you guys have allhad to walk through fire.
I think that's another reason,too, though, why we were so
intrigued with your story andwanted to have you on right away
once we got to know you was,was Walker's character, and and
the fact that these predatorsand we've traced it back to
(25:41):
other cases they target the goodkids, because the good kids
have a lot to lose, and so theytarget people on social media
that have it all together, thathave the wonderful family that
is in the Christian home.
I grew up thinking we go tochurch, we pray.
You know we talk about being agood person.
It's fine, and you know that'sone of my main messages at Next
(26:06):
Talk is like the good kids arebecoming victims of all of this
stuff online, because we have togo the extra step of raising
the awareness about the onlinedangers and the conversations
about that, and we have to knowwhat's going on in their culture
.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, I think you know.
I would say that you know,relative to what Walker, what
happened to Walker withsextortion.
I think you're spot on.
I mean, that's exactly right.
What's interesting, though, isthe predators.
You know they, they, they finda way to, they find a weakness
in whoever they can manipulate,and so the kids that are more
(26:45):
prone to, you know, whether it'sdrugs with fentanyl poisoning,
whether it's, you know, the kidthat maybe is not as confident
as, say, a walker was, you knowthey, they may bully.
You know there's all kinds ofthese different things that that
we're having to encounter nowand um, and so they're all,
they're all at risk.
(27:05):
And you know, I, relative to tothe Christian community, you
know, I think that many timeswe've got our, we've got our
head in the sand about somethings.
You know, I was, um, I remembera church I was speaking at, and
, you know, usually I'll have atime at the end where I'll just
answer questions, and uh, I'llnever forget this.
There was a guy in the audienceand, um, he was, uh, you know,
(27:28):
uh, I would say, you know, earlyseventies kind of guy.
Um struck you as a veryfundamentalist type believer and
struck you as a veryfundamentalist type believer and
his question was Brian, do youthink that if you would have
done more Bible studies and Imean it's not exactly how he
(27:49):
said it, but his implication wasif you'd have been a better
leader in terms of spiritualleader for Walker, would that
have prevented this?
And you know what I and I can.
You know, on one hand, itreally it really set me back and
I didn't want to make a scenein the audience.
But you know, I've thoughtabout that a bunch and I really,
you know, if I could go back tothat moment, I would ask his
(28:11):
name and ask him to walk up onstage and I would point blank
Okay, do you remember making any?
Uh, real?
And I want us to talk about thembecause you know, different
then is that you know, if you'dhave made a mistake like Walker
made, nobody could have seen it,nobody could have recorded it,
(28:31):
nobody could have ever repeatedit really.
But you made that mistake atthat age and we're living with a
different time now, and so youknow it was just this.
It was a very judgmental way oflooking at it.
I guess is what I'm saying,which you know I understand.
People are people and I thinkpeople see things in a stupid
way sometimes.
(28:53):
And he did, because I'm notsaying that there was no, that
we were perfect parents or thatWalker was perfectly discipled
in our home.
I'm not saying any of that.
I'm saying that, yeah, I mean,obviously, if we would have been
having a Bible study that night, maybe Walker wouldn't have
chosen to do what he did.
But my point is is that takinga step back and realizing who we
(29:15):
are as people?
Christ died for our sins.
Because we sin, we sin and it'sthat we don't want to.
We try to improve that throughhis strength every day, but as
believers we've got to open oureyes to the real risks that our
kids are facing.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Well, you know one of the things we always say at
Next Talk.
You know, all of us are stilllearning, all of us, our kids,
us.
There's always something thatwe wish we could have done
differently.
If we know the outcome ofsomething that is, that is being
a human right, that's being ahuman that's right I just, I
think I want to say to you don'tlet satan have any of that with
(30:02):
your heart.
You, you know, don't, becausebecause you are a good father,
you are a good husband and, um,I mean, anytime you know, say, a
kid has a car accident, in yourmind, you're thinking I should
have gone back.
Why didn't I teach them aboutthat?
Stop at that.
Or, you know, like we alwaysquestion when we go back, but
(30:26):
there are some things that Godsays.
This is going to happen in thistime, no matter if you're the
perfect parent or not, whichnone of us are.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Well, I think that ties directly into the
conversation we're having abouthow to continue living what I'm
going to consider a profitablelife in spite of grief and and I
think there's a lot of parentsout there that would, that would
, could, could relate to that.
You know that shame and that,and that you know all those
things, all those emotions thatare tied to.
If I'd have done somethingdifferent, I wouldn't be in this
(30:58):
situation.
My, my child wouldn't be inthis situation.
Um, and you know there's alwaysa balance.
I mean, you know, if we can'tlet our I use the analogy I mean
we can't let our two-year-oldplay on the four-lane highway, I
mean that's irresponsible andbad things are going to happen
if we do that.
But let's come back into abalanced conversation of you
(31:22):
know you're doing your best andthings happen.
Sure, there's things I couldhave done different.
We've talked about those onthis show before.
But I think how we move forwardto that is not what happened in
the past, but what are we goingto do in the future and that's
what I would encourage.
That parent that's dealing withgrief and maybe even wearing a
lot of that on their back is youcan.
(31:44):
You know you can't go back if.
If I mean it's it's a commonkind of a joke, it's not.
It's a joke, but it's not.
I mean, you know, somebody willsay, what can you look, what
can I do for you?
I was like, well, if you cancreate a time machine, that
would be perfect.
You know, I could fix a lot ofstuff with a time machine and um
, but time machine and um, butthat that.
(32:09):
So we got it.
We've got to look forward.
We got to look towards thefuture and do what we can.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Going forward to be a better parent, to be a better
spouse, to be a better friend,better brother and sister and um
and and have a kingdomperspective is what I would
encourage people, I think whatfires me up, though, about that
question that you got asked isand I walk through Christian
parents, through a lot of stuff,and many of them are scared to
talk at their church and say mykid is struggling with porn.
(32:33):
My kid shared nudes.
My kid did.
They don't want to share itbecause of the judgment and and
what.
What I've been trying to do issay to churches that should be
the first place parents run tofor help.
Why aren't we allowing a spacewhere we're not judging parents
or saying when did you give yourkid a phone?
Or if you wouldn't have donethat, stop.
(32:54):
It is hard being a parent today.
Let us run to the church andget support and help as we're
navigating these issues.
And so I get kind of frustratedon that side of it, and I know
I don't want to be churchbashing here.
You know, of course the churchis full of people and we're all
still learning and we're alltrying to fix.
So let me flip it a minute.
(33:15):
How has the church beenpositive in your life?
Because let's talk about thenegative response of the church
and those judgmental types, buthow has the church been positive
in your recovery and walkingthrough this?
Speaker 2 (33:27):
You know, I mean I talked about whenever, you know,
I had, shortly there afterlosing Walker and Courtney, and
I just trying to figure a way togo, you know and how to, how to
even face another second oflife.
And very early on, god I meanwe were just praying God.
You got to give us somethinghere and it was just a reality
(33:49):
of God's going to answer thatprayer through people.
And that's what he did.
I mean he sent our communitythat we were close to our
friends, family, church.
I mean I want to step outsidethe connotation of using the
church as a building.
I mean, all these people, themajority of these people, go to
(34:10):
a church, but they're peoplethat you know our, our church is
, our is our community ofbelievers and, and you know, and
they were just there, I meanthey were, they were there to to
listen, they were there to, youknow, to help with planning
Walker's funeral and everythingaround it.
I mean everything around it,around you that can relate to
(34:33):
what you're going through,whether they actually have had
that happen or not.
You see that they're in pain,like you're in pain, and that
(34:55):
gives confidence that this isnumber one, is real, what I'm
walking through and there'speople here that really care and
that brings comfort and I thinkthat is 100% ordained by God.
That's how he answers prayersis through people.
Are there times biblically wherehe chose to just put his hand
(35:16):
on the situation and fix it?
Sure, he did, but in terms ofhow he daily accomplishes his
goals on this earth is throughpeople and that's the church.
In terms of how he dailyaccomplishes his goals on this
earth is through people andthat's the church.
And you know there's peoplethat I would say.
There's people that have comeinto our lives that are not
Christians, that have been greatassets to us, and so it's not
(35:36):
completely tied to justbelievers.
But my point in telling you isthat I believe those people are
going to become Christiansbecause of this interaction.
I believe those people aregoing to become Christians
because of this interaction.
So it's been phenomenal to seehow people have reached out and
how they've been for us, and Iwould say that that goes for
your audience.
(35:56):
I mean Next Talk's listenersand committed followers have
been unbelievable and that waswhy I want to expand that more
than just a physical church, Imean cause, that's.
That's been a huge part of it.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Yeah, I mean, I still get stopped.
You know how's Brian, I'mpraying for Brian and you know,
um, and they've.
You're just so relatable andyou're such, just like us.
You're real.
You're real.
I'm going to say it how it is.
You're transparent.
I mean that's the next stockway.
And so when you first came on,I think immediately it was just
a we relate to him, it thatcould be our kid.
(36:31):
You know, I remember picking myson up from basketball practice
that day after I recorded withyou and um, the whole way there
I thought that could be my son.
That could have been my son,because it happens to good kids,
the predators know who totarget and so you know, just
(36:53):
your realness and rawness ofwalking through that and relying
on God has just been.
It's been hopeful, it's beeninspirational.
You know that you could facethis and still get up in the
morning and make a difference.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I guess everybody's different, but you know it's,
when you get forced into acorner and we, obviously we
didn't choose this path.
I mean we, we would not have,and even even though I mean it's
, it's I don't know how peoplewould perceive this comment, but
even knowing the impact it'smade, um, I wouldn't do it if I
(37:29):
could not do it voluntarily,could not.
And so I believe God knew that,I believe that he understands
that, and I mean it's just likeyou know he, that that picture
of him, you know crying at, youknow at Lazarus, you know tomb,
and seeing the, seeing the pain,I think that's.
(37:50):
I think he, I think he had thatsame emotion towards us, uh, as
as people, and um, and so it's,it's, it's real, I mean, and,
and so that that aspect of whatwe're having to go through is
it's.
You know we, yeah, we make, wemake choices every day of how
we're going to approach it, butsometimes it's just where's the
fire least hot, you know, and Ithink the path we've chosen, the
(38:13):
path, is not as hot as it wouldbe if we just sat back and
walked away from God and walkedaway from the people that we
know we can affect.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
You know, when you said we wouldn't choose this
path, even knowing you know theawareness we've done and the
other kids we've helped, thepicture that I pictured in my
head when you said that wasJesus right before the
crucifixion.
When he goes and he prays toGod, jesus himself, a perfect
human being, says please takethis from me, please, I don't
(38:41):
want to do this.
And then he surrenders and saidif it's your will, you know
it'll, it'll be my will, yourwill be done.
And um, I think so many timeswe have to walk through fires in
life that we would never gothrough as human beings.
We can't see the other side ofit because we couldn't even
fathom it, we wouldn't do it, wewouldn't say yes, we wouldn't
(39:02):
surrender.
And, um, I just think that's abeautiful picture of you know,
you having to walk throughsomething that you would never
choose.
You would never choose.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Yeah, and I won't, you know, and I don't know how
to best encourage other parentsthat are dealing with that grief
.
You know, I can never think ofit as an opportunity, even
though it is, Even thougheternally it is an opportunity.
I mean, I envision a daywhenever I'm standing before
Christ and this impact.
(39:34):
You know, my hope is that I cansee the impact that Christ made
through this walk we're walkingthrough and I see then at that
point that it's, that it's worthit.
You know, and I'm, and there'sa joy, a special joy related to
that, Um, and I want toencourage, you know, other
(39:56):
parents that are in that spot to.
I can't tell you to see it asan opportunity, but I can tell
you that it is, it is anopportunity, but I just I can't
tell you to see it that way.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
You've been given a burden that I mean I just can't
imagine.
You know, and I think, as theyou know, biblically, we have to
carry those burdens with you.
We have to come alongside ofyou and say, how can we help you
?
How can we, um, you know, raiseawareness so this doesn't
happen again?
All those things of workingtogether, and supporting you as,
(40:30):
as you have been, given thishorrible thing that you've had,
that you're walking through,that you'll, you'll walk through
until you.
You see Walker again.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
But speaking of moments, you know those moments
are more difficult at key timesof the year.
You know what I year.
We just came past Walker'sbirthday.
Most days we wake up and wekeep ourselves busy enough doing
and going and taking care ofthings.
We think about him all the timebut it doesn't get you down
like it did once.
But there's key times of theyear and we're coming up on the
(41:02):
holidays.
Like I said, we just came backsince his birthday.
That was really hard the year.
And we're coming up on theholidays and, like I said, we
just came back since birthday.
That was really hard.
Um, he would, he would be asenior this year and um happened
to be.
It was on a friday, so we were,you know, with his, with his uh
classmates, at football gamesand that was hard.
I mean, that was really hard.
And, um, you know, coming up ondecember, the first, which
would be two years after hisdeath, that's gonna be really
(41:24):
hard.
Um, thanksgiving, we all hadtraditions at Thanksgiving that
you know it's going to be withor going to be without him.
Christmas is obviously going tobe a difficult time and I think
that's just bringing that pointout to other parents.
I mean that's natural, you knowthose are.
Memories is what those are.
Those are times that weremember how many things we
(41:48):
encountered together and thatgrief becomes more difficult to
contend with in those situations.
But you can do it.
I mean there's going to beparts of those times.
What was his birthday?
There's parts of that day thatwere just down and out, and
there were parts of that daythat were joyful, where we could
(42:10):
remember and spend the timewith him.
And so just, um, encounterthose situations and and know
that you'll get past them, um,and hopefully over time they'll
get easier.
I don't know if they will, but,um, we hope for that.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Anything else you want to say to a mom or a dad
who's just walking through anincredibly hard time in their
life and they just feel likethey cannot get out of bed in
the morning.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Yeah, I mean, I would strongly encourage them to
connect to somebody that theytrust, that they know loves them
, that they can walk through.
I don't know how you can walkthrough this by yourself,
whether that's a spouse, orwhether that's a friend, or
whether that's a family memberor somebody at church.
(42:55):
What I was talking aboutearlier, we were talking about
how the church came alongside us.
Those relationships had beenprepared long before all these
disasters and we didn't know.
You know, going through life,we didn't know how important
those relationships were goingto be at this point.
You know, we all view ourfriends and family as important
(43:19):
relationships, but sometimes weneglect them, sometimes we don't
value them as much as we should.
But now I see that a littledifferent.
I see that if you haven't hadto encounter this type of issue
in life, know that thoserelationships are there for this
.
As one aspect of thoserelationships, they're there to
(43:42):
help you through thesesituations.
Those relationships, they'rethere to help you through these
situations and and?
Um, don't take them for granted.
And?
Um, value them and build strongrelationships.
And, uh, if, if you're in thatsituation today where you're
having to walk through it, justlike we are, I mean, lean on,
because that's that's what,that's how, that's how God will
answer those prayers, I believe.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
I think that's a word right there too, for anyone
who's not going through grief is, you know, value the people
around you.
Value the people around you.
You know, so many times we getcaught up in teenagers being
annoying, and they are sometimes.
But, really valuing each daythat you have with your loved
ones.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
I mean, it's both sides of that.
You know, on our side we werethe recipient of those people
coming alongside us.
But you know, like I said,those relationships were built
over time and some of those werebuilt on us going alongside
those people when they needed us.
And so that's what a fellowtold me one time.
He said if you want a friend,be a friend, and I think that's
(44:43):
good advice.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Well, Brian, I appreciate you.
You're always being sovulnerable and transparent and I
appreciate that and I knowGod's going to use it and help
other people, so I appreciateyou being here today, that's our
prayer.
Make a donation today atnexttalkorg.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
This podcast is not intended to replace the advice
of a trained healthcare or legalprofessional, or to diagnose,
treat or otherwise render expertadvice regarding any type of
medical, psychological or legalproblem.
Listeners are advised toconsult a qualified expert for
treatment.
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast.
We are passionate about keepingkids safe in an overexposed
world.
We are joined today by BrianMontgomery so glad to have him
back on the podcast.
Many of you know him and hisstory, brian.
I'm going to let you take aminute, though, to introduce
(00:22):
yourself for any of our newlisteners who may not know how
we met and why you're here,really, what your story is.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah, yeah, sure, we appreciate you having us again.
And the way this relationshipstarted was the loss of our son,
walker.
Walker was a victim ofsextortion on December 1st of
2022 and took his own life andright away, we had no idea why
Walker would do this.
(00:51):
I mean, we're just a normalfamily and Walker had a great
social life, had no suicidaltendencies, and we were just at
a loss.
Um, and we just we were just ata loss.
And once we I don't know it wasprobably eight weeks after
learning of what happened toWalker, um, over eight weeks
after, after he passed away, welearned what happened and what,
(01:12):
and you know what thecircumstances were that caused
him to think he needed to dothat.
And, and, um, you know westarted.
We had an interview on Fox newsand that the word started to
spread that we were talkingabout it and you guys contacted
us about doing a podcast and youwere one of the first podcasts
that we did.
That I did and it was.
(01:33):
I mean, it was a great assetfor our family Number one that
your listeners and your NextTalk team was right there with
us, comforting us and prayingfor us and gave us a platform to
share that message because weknew how important that was to
get out.
And so we over the last twoyears going on two years we've
(01:56):
been on multiple times andtalked about different topics
and we just appreciate the NextTalk listeners and all of your
staff and of course you, mandyand Kim, for you know, helping
us through this phase of ourlife.
So that's kind of what happened.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Well, and we'll link the podcast, that original
podcast, with you so if peopledon't know your story they can
go listen to that.
But it was a sextortion.
We had worked a lot ofsextortion cases at Next Talk
but a lot of them were over aweek's, month's periods of
blackmail.
You know I have this picture ofyou.
If you don't do this, send methis money, that kind of thing.
(02:33):
And it always gave the kidstime to think it through and
process it and try and seek help.
And with Walker, the Predatorsgot super smart on how to put
these kids in a corner and panicand we had never seen anything
like it Just a couple hoursbetween the extortion scheme
(02:55):
started and then we lost Walker.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
A couple hours.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And I guess we know all this because of the FBI and
their investigation and goingthrough the phone.
That's how you found out whatactually happened, but it was
something we had never seenbefore and it really shifted to
with him not having any mentalhealth issues, any red flags.
It's like you also have toshift as a parent, not only how
you think about sextortion buthow you think about suicide,
(03:21):
because we're losing kids withnone of the traditional red flag
mental health issues to theseschemes, and so at next talk, we
really wanted to shine a lighton that and you were so brave to
come on and after you sharedyour story, so many families
contacted us that this samescheme had happened to their
kids, and so that was.
I thought this was a raresituation.
(03:43):
It took me off guard that wehad so many people contacting us
.
But now you you know you'vewalked through a cancer
diagnosis, but you also traveland you speak and you share
Walker's story.
You've been in DC working onthe kids online safety act.
You've been trying to raiseawareness in all these different
areas.
Also, you have for ourlisteners who don't know you,
(04:04):
you're married to sweet Courtneyand you have three other
children also Walker and threeother children correct.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Courtney and I were married.
We've been married, like I said, 25, 26 years and just a
fairytale marriage.
We have a great relationshipWith Walker.
We have four kids, two boys andtwo girls, and so, after losing
Walker, of course you know it'sbeen a, it's a new life for all
of us, and our kids have beenat the center of that as well.
(04:35):
You know trying to be, continueto be, you know, parents to
them and lead them in a waythat's godly, in a way that's
going to prepare them for theirfutures.
So it's been a challenge.
And then to compound that, likeyou said, a cancer diagnosis in
September of 23,.
It's just been quite a journey,but we know that God's got a
(05:01):
plan for this.
We know that he's using it toaffect others, something that we
could not have done on our own,or without these hardships we
couldn't have done.
So, on one hand, we're thankful, but we're careful to say how
thankful we are, because we needa little relief.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Well, and I want to talk about that today Parenting
through grief, pain, trauma.
You guys have been through itall.
You've lost a child, and thenthe health situation and, um,
you know the thought that comesto mind when I see you and
you're still speaking and you'restill raising awareness and,
you know, fighting for new laws.
Um, the thing that I alwaysthink is, you know, he he's just
(05:39):
such a good dad in a leader inthe household to keep going and
he keeps going for his wife andhis kids.
But tell me about that, whatdoes keep you going, Brian?
Because from the outside,looking in, that's my perception
of you.
But tell me what keeps yougoing.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, it's 100% our faith.
I mean Courtney and I both havetalked about it over and over
again 100% our faith.
I mean Courtney and I both havetalked about it over and over
again and just continue to tryto encourage one another.
That you know, I can't be thedad I need to be, or the husband
I need to be for Courtney orfor my kids, and I can't.
If you look at life through atemporal perspective, you know
(06:20):
all these catastrophes wouldovertake you, because it's you
know.
If you just think about life asyou're born and you live a life
and you accomplish things andyou have relationships, and then
you die and it's over, wellthen that perspective I can't
relate to how you can keep goingin circumstances like these,
(06:44):
and so that's obviously not ourperspective.
Our perspective is from aneternal standpoint and we
believe that we'll see Walkeragain.
We believe that this life is avery minimal part of eternity,
that God has prepared a placefor us, just like he promised us
in his word that he would, andthat Walker is in that place
right now.
Place for us, just like hepromised us in his word that he
(07:05):
would, and that Walker is inthat place right now, um, and
that we're, uh, we're, we're.
Our job here is to help enlargethat kingdom and um, and so you
know how that, how we do thatis is different for everybody,
but, uh, we're confident thatthe circumstances God has
brought us through is is hasbeen a a process of process of
sharpening our sword for thisbattle that we're in in life.
(07:27):
And I think that you knowthat's not a fun perspective
sometimes.
I mean, it's more fun to thinkabout the football game on the
weekend or, you know, thebaseball tournament or whatever
the things that we all havegoing on, and those things are
fun.
But God has a plan for us totruly carry on a spiritual
battle here on this earth andthat perspective is what keeps
(07:49):
us moving in the right direction, I believe.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Your faith is so strong and I hear that in you
Was there a time that youquestioned or you wavered in
your flesh of why?
Why does this have to happen tous Like I?
Can you speak into that?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
You know there's glimpses of that all the time.
I mean there's a daily, there'sa daily fight to to recenter on
that promise.
Uh, daily I mean that, andsometimes that can be hourly.
I mean it really just dependson the circumstances of life.
But you know, I tell peoplesometimes we don't have these
(08:29):
conversations, quite oftenbecause it's pretty difficult.
But you know, the night thatwould have been within the first
24 hours of Lizzie Walker, Imean we were dark, really dark
place, and so, um, you know thatthat was a time where you know
lots of questions about ourfaith, lots of questions about
(08:50):
eternity, lots of questionsabout why us, why Walker, um,
but God didn't leave us thereand and that's, I think that's
that's the um, that's the God weserve.
I mean he, he is not going toleave us in a place anywhere.
He hadn't left us.
(09:10):
Then I think that that was apoint where God was asking do
you believe what you say?
You believe and I say thatoften is we?
You know, we say we believe ineternity, we say we believe that
Christ is the center ofeverything that we do, and you
(09:31):
know how we behave and how wereact, and the things we say and
do are a reflection of what webelieve and you know that point
in life where we were, I'll saywhere I was um.
You know that first, 24 hoursafter losing Walker was um.
Is is close to what I thinkhell would be like, as I can
(09:54):
imagine.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Thank you for sharing that.
Um, it's almost like hard tomove past that.
Because it's like hard to movepast that, because it's like
it's such a moment I mean Ican't, yeah.
And and here you are, um, beingstrong and doing all these
things, and I see that the innerstrength comes from somebody
(10:17):
power more powerful than you,and I think that's that's the.
The cool thing that I see is isis God, you having that
foundation of God being able tocarry you through the darkest of
moments?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, I just I want to encourage because I think
that's the goal of thisconversation you and I are
having is that parent that's outthere that's living in this
grief.
You know, I don't want to thinkabout it as grief.
I want to think about it asthere's a period of time where I
miss Walker.
I mean that's what it is.
(10:53):
I miss him.
And even though I miss him,though, I know that he's safe, I
mean he's well taken care of.
But I don't think, if you're aparent that doesn't share this
faith that we are blessed with,you can have that perspective.
I think you've got toacknowledge and I had to
(11:14):
acknowledge it, I had toacknowledge it.
Even in that night I wasdescribing that how am I
behaving here?
I'm behaving as if I don'tbelieve this.
How am I behaving here?
I'm behaving as if I don'tbelieve this, and it was such a
confusion of emotions andthoughts and ideas.
And I've said before, in thisspiritual battle, satan is
(11:35):
sitting there feeding you withlies, the same lies he fed
Walker.
And that person, that parentout there, or sibling, or
whoever that's experienced thisextensive loss and is having to
walk through grief, if you don'thave that faith to latch on to.
I don't see how it's doable.
I've said this before I don'twant people to see us as a
(11:58):
victim.
I don't see ourselves asvictims.
Sometimes you can get thatmentality, but I don't see
ourselves as victims.
Sometimes you can get thatmentality, but I don't see
ourselves as victims.
I see us as victims, I see us aswarriors in a battle.
And this war, this battle, ishard.
It comes with casualties, itcomes with injuries, it comes
with all kinds of risk, butfortunately, the person in
(12:22):
Christ that is leading usthrough this battle has all the
power and has all the ability tosee us through it.
And and um, I've got to latchonto that and I have to latch
onto that daily, uh,intentionally, um, and without
that I just, I just don't knowhow.
I don't know how you can moveforward, and I know there's a
lot of parents that I'veencountered that are not
Christians, and I'm not.
I'm not saying that from ajudgmental perspective, but to
(12:46):
be functional as a real causalagent, especially when you start
thinking about it from aneternal standpoint and affecting
the kingdom.
That's how we move forward.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, I think that reminds me of the Bible verse
that we will face trouble inthis world.
We will 100%.
We weren't promised thateverything is going to be great.
In fact, following Jesus isgoing to be harder than not
right Because of the persecutionand the troubles that will come
our way.
I think for our listeners outthere who may not have a
(13:20):
relationship with Jesus, I thinkwhat I want to do is like just
give them hope that that thatthat it's available to you, like
you could like you can pray toreceive Jesus.
If you've been mad at him, ifyou've blamed it he, that's fine
because that's our flag.
That's normal processing, Don'tyou think I mean?
(13:40):
What would you say to thatperson out there that is like I
don't have a relationship withJesus, I'm mad at Jesus because
he took my kid.
I'm done.
What would you say to thatperson if you were having coffee
with them right now?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
God has the infinite ability to forgive and forget.
I mean, that's what he's allabout, is forgiveness.
That's his absolute core, andwhere that originates from is
his ability to loveunconditionally, and that's
where that originates from, ishis ability to love
unconditionally and that's wherethat originates from God.
That's who he is.
I mean, he created us out oflove, he directs us out of love,
he sets his commandments out oflove.
(14:13):
All those, everything thatoriginates from God's character.
Despite what some people in ourculture would try to point to,
god is love, and so that allowshim to forgive us for whatever
we've done, and he was temptedat all points, just as we are.
(14:34):
So there's nothing that we'vedone, nothing that we've
encountered, no feeling thatwe've had that he didn't have
whenever he was walking on thisearth, and I think that's for a
purpose.
That purpose was to show usthat, brian, you're not alone in
this.
I know right where you're at.
I know exactly where you're atand where I've.
You know, the story that comesto mind often is, you know, with
(14:58):
Christ and with Jesus andLazarus.
You know Lazarus was a reallyimportant person to Jesus and
you know Jesus knew what wasgoing to happen.
I mean, the story was that theycame to Jesus and told him that
you know, lazarus is sick, andthese are people that are really
important to Jesus personallyas he lived on this earth and so
, basically, jesus delayed andallowed Lazarus to die, and when
(15:23):
he gets there, he knew that hewas going to raise Lazarus from
the dead.
This was not something that wasa revelation to him, but he
still wept.
Why did he weep?
It wasn't because he didn'tthink he was going to see
Lazarus again, because he sawthe pain that the people around
him had to experience for thispoint to be made of the power
that he held.
And so I just as that parent is, you know, and I see that for
(15:47):
myself is I think that Jesuslooks at me and says Brian, I'm
sorry, but this is something yougot to contend with.
I mean I, but it's not.
It's not forever.
You know it's not forever and Iknow how you feel, because I
cried too.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, I think you know.
the promise of scripture is notthat we, that we're going to
avoid pain, but but that he'llbe with us, that he'll carry us
through the pain, that he won'tever leave us in the in the
darkest of moments, or whateverwe're walking through or
whatever questions we have, hewon't leave us, and I think that
is just the true peace thatsurpasses all understanding that
we talk about with scripture,that we see in you.
(16:26):
You've gone through all of thisstuff and there's a peace and a
stability in you even still,and that's the God in you.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah Well, I've said this before too.
And that's the God in you yeahWell, I've said this before too.
And a lot of the things we talkabout here are things that I
aspire to do and aspire to be.
I don't have it figured out.
This is a daily struggle.
It's kind of like knowing theanswer, but knowing the answer
(16:54):
is just part of it.
Knowing how to behave, knowinghow to think, knowing how to
feel that doesn't change wherethose real feelings come from
and how things get sidetracked.
I think about, I want the world, the life we had before.
Any of this is what I want,that's what my flesh wants and
that's what my family wants.
I think that's a perfectlynatural desire, but God
(17:15):
continually reminds me that,brian, that's what you want, but
that is an earthly desire, andwhat I want you to want is to
impact my kingdom, because youhave a phenomenal opportunity to
do that, and it's hard to thinkof these circumstances as
opportunities, but when you lookat everybody that Christ used,
that God used throughout thescripture, he used them in
(17:38):
difficult circumstances and theyhad to go through those
difficult circumstances to beusable by God, and so he reminds
me of that often.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Well, I think that's why our audience and just us at
Next Talk, it's just been a youknow, we relate to you so much.
It's that I know the answer,but I'm a work in progress,
cause we that's kind of been ourphilosophy this whole time of
parenting a phone, of keepingkids safe online.
It's all an experiment.
Nobody really can be called anexpert on this.
(18:08):
We're the first generation,right, and so that's one of the
things that next talk that we'vealways said is we're learning,
we're telling you what as welearn, but but it's a process.
It's a process here and I think, as you have processed your
grief, that's that's the same.
Um, you know way you'veapproached it too.
I mean, I know the answer, Iknow who, who's in charge, but
(18:29):
but this is a fleshly process ofwalking through this.
I can only imagine you knowcause you're processing your
pain, you're helping your wifeprocess her pain and you've got
three kids processing that theylost their brother.
And also, I guess the mom in mejust feels like this is such a
(18:53):
shocking thing that happened toWalker.
I mean, it was such a shockingthing back then.
Nobody had really ever heard ofit back then at this timeframe
and it was a.
It was a new whoa, whoa, whoa,wait a minute.
To me in my mom brain I wouldhave been, like become so
overprotective of my kids Iwouldn't want them to leave the
house.
I would have thrown away allthe phones, like like, tell us
(19:16):
how.
What?
Your response to all of that,just on a normal parenting
journey of I've got three kids,that I'm, that I'm still
parenting every day, and how youdidn't swing the pendulum so
far in in being afraid, I guess.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, that's and that's a.
You know, that is, thattendency is absolutely there,
because, but, but I, you know, Ithink that, but I think that
there's two points I would makerelative to that.
One is we can't—I mean, yousaid right at the end you're
afraid and we can't be drivenout of fear.
Our actions can't be drivenbased on fear.
(19:54):
Our actions can't be drivenbased on fear, and I think
that's that's a, that's a cleardirective in scripture, that
that, um, we should not fear andthat God is in control and that
our fear, um, you know and I'mnot saying that we, that we
shouldn't fear because of ourown abilities, but we've got to
not fear because of hisabilities, and so, um, we can't,
I can't and Courtney can't,parent out of fear of what
(20:17):
happened to Walker, you know,overreact to those, to our other
kids and the other side.
The other point is balance.
You know, are there morerestrictions now than there were
before?
Sure, yeah, absolutely.
I mean there's things I didn'tknow.
I mean there's things that Ididn't understand.
There's the seriousness of theworld we live in, you know, has
(20:41):
completely changed and for us tojust act like things are just
like they always have would beirresponsible.
And that balance and how weapproach discipline, how we
approach the things that we wantto protect our kids from, is
(21:02):
what we've done there, and it'scertainly not perfect, because I
can see the look on people'seyes.
I've been in a lot of differentmeetings.
They say, well, do your kidsstill have social media?
Well, bennett does not.
Bennett's just turned 15.
Probably fixing to have tocross that bridge with him I was
(21:24):
freeing into.
Everybody has some connectionto social media.
Sarah is 13.
She does not.
Our 20-year-old, of course,she's grown, you know, and she
came through before any of thiseven happened.
So we've got some work to do onall of those.
But what I tell parents numberone is if we think that we're
going to just, you know,completely take it away from our
(21:45):
kids, number one we're going toset them at a really severe
disadvantage competitively inthe society we live in.
Communication is going to beconducted through tech.
I mean, we can like it or not,that horse is out of the stable.
It's going to be conductedthrough tech.
I mean, we can like it or not,that horse is out of the stable,
it's going to happen.
And so, if I know, that dangeris still going to be there when
they turn 18, I need to start.
(22:05):
I mean, just, there's all kindsof things we educate as parents,
we want to put into oureducational planning.
To educate our parents I meanour kids about whether it was
drugs or alcohol or, you know,premarital sex or you fill in
the blank all those things thatwe need to be educating, you
know about.
This is one of those, and it'sgoing to be here and us thinking
(22:27):
that we can just, you know,exclude it from our lives, I
think is number one.
It's going to create a lot ofdivision in our family.
We're just going to not, we'renot going to parent based on
fear, and we're going tocontinue to be vigilant, but
we're going to continue to loveour kids and try to educate them
.
I think that's the end of theday.
(22:48):
They've got to understand thatthere's things here that are
dangerous.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Was there ever a moment where you were like,
let's just go dark and not talkabout this and we don't want to
put it out there and let'sprotect our kids?
I mean, I could see the draw ofthat, even though I feel like
God commands us to bring thingsinto the light because we can't
address things we don't know.
But was there ever a moment ora temptation to be like let's
(23:14):
just not talk about this anymore?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Not really moment, or a temptation to be like let's
just not talk about this anymore.
Not really.
I mean, you know, I guessthat's probably part of why
we're in this situation, justfrom a standpoint of who we are
and who you know, what our, whatmy personality is like, you
know?
I mean, I, I really, uh, that'sthat's.
I'm a straightforward, alwaysbeen that way.
Just try to try to be astransparent as possible.
I think we can avoid a lot ofproblems that way, and
(23:37):
pretending something didn'thappen doesn't make it not
happen.
And I also felt the need to,even though Walker did what he
did, I felt the need to defendWalker in terms of how this
happened.
I mean, I think, you know, hadthere been no communication, it
would have left a lot toquestion about.
You know who we are as parents,what kind of family we are,
(24:01):
what kind of person Walker was.
We knew that that was not thecase.
We knew who Walker was, we knewhis character, we knew his
personality, we knew all thatabout him and I think I felt
some need to defend that thatWalker was victimized.
Walker fell victim to a, youknow, a scheme and somebody that
was a predator.
(24:22):
Have we gotten?
Have there been times where wewere tired of talking about it?
Yes, absolutely there's.
There's been times where it'sjust like I just I'm just I'm
just tired.
You know, I'm tired of thisbeing the central focus of our
family and and we've triedreally hard to not let this be
you know everything, you knowour kids, you know, for our
(24:42):
other kids, I mean I could seewhere that could be.
It could become resentful, youknow.
Uh, they could, they could,they could start to resent this
as being the change you know,because I mean they're still
teenagers, right, I mean they'rethey, and I could see where
kids could get there, butfortunately they, they haven't,
and they have encouraged us tocontinue this fight, and I also
(25:02):
think it's prepared them forbeing better citizens.
I think that better people, youknow, I think they're going to
be, they're going to see how tohandle adversity better than
most, and so I think it's, Ithink, as hard as it's been, I
think it's going to be a goodattribute to their personalities
.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
You, know, walking through fire.
It develops character, itdevelops perseverance and
strength, and you guys have allhad to walk through fire.
I think that's another reason,too, though, why we were so
intrigued with your story andwanted to have you on right away
once we got to know you was,was Walker's character, and and
the fact that these predatorsand we've traced it back to
(25:41):
other cases they target the goodkids, because the good kids
have a lot to lose, and so theytarget people on social media
that have it all together, thathave the wonderful family that
is in the Christian home.
I grew up thinking we go tochurch, we pray.
You know we talk about being agood person.
It's fine, and you know that'sone of my main messages at Next
(26:06):
Talk is like the good kids arebecoming victims of all of this
stuff online, because we have togo the extra step of raising
the awareness about the onlinedangers and the conversations
about that, and we have to knowwhat's going on in their culture
.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, I think you know.
I would say that you know,relative to what Walker, what
happened to Walker withsextortion.
I think you're spot on.
I mean, that's exactly right.
What's interesting, though, isthe predators.
You know they, they, they finda way to, they find a weakness
in whoever they can manipulate,and so the kids that are more
(26:45):
prone to, you know, whether it'sdrugs with fentanyl poisoning,
whether it's, you know, the kidthat maybe is not as confident
as, say, a walker was, you knowthey, they may bully.
You know there's all kinds ofthese different things that that
we're having to encounter nowand um, and so they're all,
they're all at risk.
(27:05):
And you know, I, relative to tothe Christian community, you
know, I think that many timeswe've got our, we've got our
head in the sand about somethings.
You know, I was, um, I remembera church I was speaking at, and
, you know, usually I'll have atime at the end where I'll just
answer questions, and uh, I'llnever forget this.
There was a guy in the audienceand, um, he was, uh, you know,
(27:28):
uh, I would say, you know, earlyseventies kind of guy.
Um struck you as a veryfundamentalist type believer and
struck you as a veryfundamentalist type believer and
his question was Brian, do youthink that if you would have
done more Bible studies and Imean it's not exactly how he
(27:49):
said it, but his implication wasif you'd have been a better
leader in terms of spiritualleader for Walker, would that
have prevented this?
And you know what I and I can.
You know, on one hand, itreally it really set me back and
I didn't want to make a scenein the audience.
But you know, I've thoughtabout that a bunch and I really,
you know, if I could go back tothat moment, I would ask his
(28:11):
name and ask him to walk up onstage and I would point blank
Okay, do you remember making any?
Uh, real?
And I want us to talk about thembecause you know, different
then is that you know, if you'dhave made a mistake like Walker
made, nobody could have seen it,nobody could have recorded it,
(28:31):
nobody could have ever repeatedit really.
But you made that mistake atthat age and we're living with a
different time now, and so youknow it was just this.
It was a very judgmental way oflooking at it.
I guess is what I'm saying,which you know I understand.
People are people and I thinkpeople see things in a stupid
way sometimes.
(28:53):
And he did, because I'm notsaying that there was no, that
we were perfect parents or thatWalker was perfectly discipled
in our home.
I'm not saying any of that.
I'm saying that, yeah, I mean,obviously, if we would have been
having a Bible study that night, maybe Walker wouldn't have
chosen to do what he did.
But my point is is that takinga step back and realizing who we
(29:15):
are as people?
Christ died for our sins.
Because we sin, we sin and it'sthat we don't want to.
We try to improve that throughhis strength every day, but as
believers we've got to open oureyes to the real risks that our
kids are facing.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Well, you know one of the things we always say at
Next Talk.
You know, all of us are stilllearning, all of us, our kids,
us.
There's always something thatwe wish we could have done
differently.
If we know the outcome ofsomething that is, that is being
a human right, that's being ahuman that's right I just, I
think I want to say to you don'tlet satan have any of that with
(30:02):
your heart.
You, you know, don't, becausebecause you are a good father,
you are a good husband and, um,I mean, anytime you know, say, a
kid has a car accident, in yourmind, you're thinking I should
have gone back.
Why didn't I teach them aboutthat?
Stop at that.
Or, you know, like we alwaysquestion when we go back, but
(30:26):
there are some things that Godsays.
This is going to happen in thistime, no matter if you're the
perfect parent or not, whichnone of us are.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Well, I think that ties directly into the
conversation we're having abouthow to continue living what I'm
going to consider a profitablelife in spite of grief and and I
think there's a lot of parentsout there that would, that would
, could, could relate to that.
You know that shame and that,and that you know all those
things, all those emotions thatare tied to.
If I'd have done somethingdifferent, I wouldn't be in this
(30:58):
situation.
My, my child wouldn't be inthis situation.
Um, and you know there's alwaysa balance.
I mean, you know, if we can'tlet our I use the analogy I mean
we can't let our two-year-oldplay on the four-lane highway, I
mean that's irresponsible andbad things are going to happen
if we do that.
But let's come back into abalanced conversation of you
(31:22):
know you're doing your best andthings happen.
Sure, there's things I couldhave done different.
We've talked about those onthis show before.
But I think how we move forwardto that is not what happened in
the past, but what are we goingto do in the future and that's
what I would encourage.
That parent that's dealing withgrief and maybe even wearing a
lot of that on their back is youcan.
(31:44):
You know you can't go back if.
If I mean it's it's a commonkind of a joke, it's not.
It's a joke, but it's not.
I mean, you know, somebody willsay, what can you look, what
can I do for you?
I was like, well, if you cancreate a time machine, that
would be perfect.
You know, I could fix a lot ofstuff with a time machine and um
, but time machine and um, butthat that.
(32:09):
So we got it.
We've got to look forward.
We got to look towards thefuture and do what we can.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Going forward to be a better parent, to be a better
spouse, to be a better friend,better brother and sister and um
and and have a kingdomperspective is what I would
encourage people, I think whatfires me up, though, about that
question that you got asked isand I walk through Christian
parents, through a lot of stuff,and many of them are scared to
talk at their church and say mykid is struggling with porn.
(32:33):
My kid shared nudes.
My kid did.
They don't want to share itbecause of the judgment and and
what.
What I've been trying to do issay to churches that should be
the first place parents run tofor help.
Why aren't we allowing a spacewhere we're not judging parents
or saying when did you give yourkid a phone?
Or if you wouldn't have donethat, stop.
(32:54):
It is hard being a parent today.
Let us run to the church andget support and help as we're
navigating these issues.
And so I get kind of frustratedon that side of it, and I know
I don't want to be churchbashing here.
You know, of course the churchis full of people and we're all
still learning and we're alltrying to fix.
So let me flip it a minute.
(33:15):
How has the church beenpositive in your life?
Because let's talk about thenegative response of the church
and those judgmental types, buthow has the church been positive
in your recovery and walkingthrough this?
Speaker 2 (33:27):
You know, I mean I talked about whenever, you know,
I had, shortly there afterlosing Walker and Courtney, and
I just trying to figure a way togo, you know and how to, how to
even face another second oflife.
And very early on, god I meanwe were just praying God.
You got to give us somethinghere and it was just a reality
(33:49):
of God's going to answer thatprayer through people.
And that's what he did.
I mean he sent our communitythat we were close to our
friends, family, church.
I mean I want to step outsidethe connotation of using the
church as a building.
I mean, all these people, themajority of these people, go to
(34:10):
a church, but they're peoplethat you know our, our church is
, our is our community ofbelievers and, and you know, and
they were just there, I meanthey were, they were there to to
listen, they were there to, youknow, to help with planning
Walker's funeral and everythingaround it.
I mean everything around it,around you that can relate to
(34:33):
what you're going through,whether they actually have had
that happen or not.
You see that they're in pain,like you're in pain, and that
(34:55):
gives confidence that this isnumber one, is real, what I'm
walking through and there'speople here that really care and
that brings comfort and I thinkthat is 100% ordained by God.
That's how he answers prayersis through people.
Are there times biblically wherehe chose to just put his hand
(35:16):
on the situation and fix it?
Sure, he did, but in terms ofhow he daily accomplishes his
goals on this earth is throughpeople and that's the church.
In terms of how he dailyaccomplishes his goals on this
earth is through people andthat's the church.
And you know there's peoplethat I would say.
There's people that have comeinto our lives that are not
Christians, that have been greatassets to us, and so it's not
(35:36):
completely tied to justbelievers.
But my point in telling you isthat I believe those people are
going to become Christiansbecause of this interaction.
I believe those people aregoing to become Christians
because of this interaction.
So it's been phenomenal to seehow people have reached out and
how they've been for us, and Iwould say that that goes for
your audience.
(35:56):
I mean Next Talk's listenersand committed followers have
been unbelievable and that waswhy I want to expand that more
than just a physical church, Imean cause, that's.
That's been a huge part of it.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Yeah, I mean, I still get stopped.
You know how's Brian, I'mpraying for Brian and you know,
um, and they've.
You're just so relatable andyou're such, just like us.
You're real.
You're real.
I'm going to say it how it is.
You're transparent.
I mean that's the next stockway.
And so when you first came on,I think immediately it was just
a we relate to him, it thatcould be our kid.
(36:31):
You know, I remember picking myson up from basketball practice
that day after I recorded withyou and um, the whole way there
I thought that could be my son.
That could have been my son,because it happens to good kids,
the predators know who totarget and so you know, just
(36:53):
your realness and rawness ofwalking through that and relying
on God has just been.
It's been hopeful, it's beeninspirational.
You know that you could facethis and still get up in the
morning and make a difference.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I guess everybody's different, but you know it's,
when you get forced into acorner and we, obviously we
didn't choose this path.
I mean we, we would not have,and even even though I mean it's
, it's I don't know how peoplewould perceive this comment, but
even knowing the impact it'smade, um, I wouldn't do it if I
(37:29):
could not do it voluntarily,could not.
And so I believe God knew that,I believe that he understands
that, and I mean it's just likeyou know he, that that picture
of him, you know crying at, youknow at Lazarus, you know tomb,
and seeing the, seeing the pain,I think that's.
(37:50):
I think he, I think he had thatsame emotion towards us, uh, as
as people, and um, and so it's,it's, it's real, I mean, and,
and so that that aspect of whatwe're having to go through is
it's.
You know we, yeah, we make, wemake choices every day of how
we're going to approach it, butsometimes it's just where's the
fire least hot, you know, and Ithink the path we've chosen, the
(38:13):
path, is not as hot as it wouldbe if we just sat back and
walked away from God and walkedaway from the people that we
know we can affect.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
You know, when you said we wouldn't choose this
path, even knowing you know theawareness we've done and the
other kids we've helped, thepicture that I pictured in my
head when you said that wasJesus right before the
crucifixion.
When he goes and he prays toGod, jesus himself, a perfect
human being, says please takethis from me, please, I don't
(38:41):
want to do this.
And then he surrenders and saidif it's your will, you know
it'll, it'll be my will, yourwill be done.
And um, I think so many timeswe have to walk through fires in
life that we would never gothrough as human beings.
We can't see the other side ofit because we couldn't even
fathom it, we wouldn't do it, wewouldn't say yes, we wouldn't
(39:02):
surrender.
And, um, I just think that's abeautiful picture of you know,
you having to walk throughsomething that you would never
choose.
You would never choose.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Yeah, and I won't, you know, and I don't know how
to best encourage other parentsthat are dealing with that grief
.
You know, I can never think ofit as an opportunity, even
though it is, Even thougheternally it is an opportunity.
I mean, I envision a daywhenever I'm standing before
Christ and this impact.
(39:34):
You know, my hope is that I cansee the impact that Christ made
through this walk we're walkingthrough and I see then at that
point that it's, that it's worthit.
You know, and I'm, and there'sa joy, a special joy related to
that, Um, and I want toencourage, you know, other
(39:56):
parents that are in that spot to.
I can't tell you to see it asan opportunity, but I can tell
you that it is, it is anopportunity, but I just I can't
tell you to see it that way.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
You've been given a burden that I mean I just can't
imagine.
You know, and I think, as theyou know, biblically, we have to
carry those burdens with you.
We have to come alongside ofyou and say, how can we help you
?
How can we, um, you know, raiseawareness so this doesn't
happen again?
All those things of workingtogether, and supporting you as,
(40:30):
as you have been, given thishorrible thing that you've had,
that you're walking through,that you'll, you'll walk through
until you.
You see Walker again.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
But speaking of moments, you know those moments
are more difficult at key timesof the year.
You know what I year.
We just came past Walker'sbirthday.
Most days we wake up and wekeep ourselves busy enough doing
and going and taking care ofthings.
We think about him all the timebut it doesn't get you down
like it did once.
But there's key times of theyear and we're coming up on the
(41:02):
holidays.
Like I said, we just came backsince his birthday.
That was really hard the year.
And we're coming up on theholidays and, like I said, we
just came back since birthday.
That was really hard.
Um, he would, he would be asenior this year and um happened
to be.
It was on a friday, so we were,you know, with his, with his uh
classmates, at football gamesand that was hard.
I mean, that was really hard.
And, um, you know, coming up ondecember, the first, which
would be two years after hisdeath, that's gonna be really
(41:24):
hard.
Um, thanksgiving, we all hadtraditions at Thanksgiving that
you know it's going to be withor going to be without him.
Christmas is obviously going tobe a difficult time and I think
that's just bringing that pointout to other parents.
I mean that's natural, you knowthose are.
Memories is what those are.
Those are times that weremember how many things we
(41:48):
encountered together and thatgrief becomes more difficult to
contend with in those situations.
But you can do it.
I mean there's going to beparts of those times.
What was his birthday?
There's parts of that day thatwere just down and out, and
there were parts of that daythat were joyful, where we could
(42:10):
remember and spend the timewith him.
And so just, um, encounterthose situations and and know
that you'll get past them, um,and hopefully over time they'll
get easier.
I don't know if they will, but,um, we hope for that.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Anything else you want to say to a mom or a dad
who's just walking through anincredibly hard time in their
life and they just feel likethey cannot get out of bed in
the morning.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Yeah, I mean, I would strongly encourage them to
connect to somebody that theytrust, that they know loves them
, that they can walk through.
I don't know how you can walkthrough this by yourself,
whether that's a spouse, orwhether that's a friend, or
whether that's a family memberor somebody at church.
(42:55):
What I was talking aboutearlier, we were talking about
how the church came alongside us.
Those relationships had beenprepared long before all these
disasters and we didn't know.
You know, going through life,we didn't know how important
those relationships were goingto be at this point.
You know, we all view ourfriends and family as important
(43:19):
relationships, but sometimes weneglect them, sometimes we don't
value them as much as we should.
But now I see that a littledifferent.
I see that if you haven't hadto encounter this type of issue
in life, know that thoserelationships are there for this
.
As one aspect of thoserelationships, they're there to
(43:42):
help you through thesesituations.
Those relationships, they'rethere to help you through these
situations and and?
Um, don't take them for granted.
And?
Um, value them and build strongrelationships.
And, uh, if, if you're in thatsituation today where you're
having to walk through it, justlike we are, I mean, lean on,
because that's that's what,that's how, that's how God will
answer those prayers, I believe.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
I think that's a word right there too, for anyone
who's not going through grief is, you know, value the people
around you.
Value the people around you.
You know, so many times we getcaught up in teenagers being
annoying, and they are sometimes.
But, really valuing each daythat you have with your loved
ones.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
I mean, it's both sides of that.
You know, on our side we werethe recipient of those people
coming alongside us.
But you know, like I said,those relationships were built
over time and some of those werebuilt on us going alongside
those people when they needed us.
And so that's what a fellowtold me one time.
He said if you want a friend,be a friend, and I think that's
(44:43):
good advice.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Well, Brian, I appreciate you.
You're always being sovulnerable and transparent and I
appreciate that and I knowGod's going to use it and help
other people, so I appreciateyou being here today, that's our
prayer.
Make a donation today atnexttalkorg.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
This podcast is not intended to replace the advice
of a trained healthcare or legalprofessional, or to diagnose,
treat or otherwise render expertadvice regarding any type of
medical, psychological or legalproblem.
Listeners are advised toconsult a qualified expert for
treatment.
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