March 21, 2025 • 37 mins
#1 Best Selling Author, Kristen Jenson, has written two children’s books that will help you start the conversation about pornography with your little kids. We discuss the books, why they’re important and the addictive and mental health challenges associated with porn.
KEEPING KIDS SAFE ONLINE
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast.
We are a nonprofit passionateabout keeping kids safe online.
We're learning together how tonavigate tech, culture and faith
with our kids.
Today we have Kristen Jensenwith us.
She is a best selling author,kristen.
Welcome to the show.
Thank you, mandy.
(00:23):
It's so good to be back herewith you.
Kristen, welcome to the show.
Thank you, mandy.
It's so good to be back herewith you.
You're not a stranger.
We have known each other manalmost eight to 10 years.
We met at a conference.
We were both really new to thisline of work back then and it's
been really cool to see yourbooks be such a resource for
parents.
I mean, I know when I foundthem, they were so fantastic.
(00:43):
You're the author of GoodPictures, Bad Pictures and
everybody who's listening islike, oh, this is the lady that
Mandy's always talking about.
But I want you to take us backto why you wrote it, the
backstory of what led you towrite this book.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yes, well, it was not in my my plans, not a life goal
, but I met a mom of a largefamily, very faithful, and it
turns out her 17 year old sonwas molesting his younger
brothers and sisters, from the14 year old down to the four
year old, and it really had somevery negative consequences, not
(01:22):
only for him but for the family, and pornography was definitely
involved in promoting thatbehavior.
And so I talked to her lateinto the night, like 1.30 in the
morning, and I just couldn'tget this thought out of my mind
that they're, you know, youngchildren needed to be warned
about this problem ofpornography and what it can do
(01:44):
to their minds.
I went and looked.
I thought, oh yeah, I'll justgo on online or on Amazon,
whatever, I'll find a book andI'll get it for her.
And I couldn't find anything.
And I thought this isridiculous.
There has to be a book.
There has to be a read aloudbook.
There was all these books aboutbody safety.
Read a lab book.
(02:05):
But you can, you know there wasall these books about body
safety.
Right, I thought there's gottabe a mind safety book, you know,
uh, for digital dangers, um,but I couldn't find it.
So I started like doing someresearch and and started
educating myself.
I mean, I already knew thatpornography could be an
addiction, but I didn't knowthat children were being
impacted at at the rate and atthe seriousness that they were
(02:26):
being impacted.
So, yeah, that was thebeginning of writing good
pictures, bad pictures.
I have a lot of help from a lotof other really smart people
and that came out in 2014.
And then parents came to me andsaid, what about a book for
younger children?
And that was like I rememberthe first mom that asked me that
(02:47):
after a presentation and she'slike what about for
three-year-olds?
And I'm like what?
And then I looked around and somany three-year-olds are on
tablets and iPads.
And so we wrote Good Pictures,bad Pictures, junior for like
three to seven.
And then the original GoodPictures, bad Pictures, porn
(03:09):
Proofing to Days Young Kids isfor seven-ish to 11-ish.
You know, it really depends onthe child.
I know parents that use it as alike a, even as a guideline for
teens although there's a lotmore that teens need to know but
just to begin conversationsabout the brain, about addiction
(03:33):
and about some of the harms ofpornography.
So I'm so very grateful that Icould provide a resource for
parents in that way a resourcefor parents in that in that way.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Well, and what is so cool is I think I found year
around 14 or 15, 2014 or 15,because my kid had been exposed
to pornography through aconversation.
You know, no phones werepresent and my thought was I'm
never given her a phone, so I'mnot going to have to worry about
pornography.
But then she got exposed tothis graphic nature, this image
in her mind that had beenpainted to her through a
conversation, no screens present.
(04:09):
And that was my moment where Iwas like, whether I get my kid a
phone or not, I have to talk toher about pornography.
And that's when I startedsearching online for books and I
found yours.
Didn't know you back then andthen I started using it in my
home.
It was a huge help for me justhaving that initial conversation
of what do I even say in thebeginning, and it got the
(04:32):
dialogue happening, and so thenI got to meet you and have you
on the podcast and it's justbeen a joy.
And then Good Pictures BadPictures, junior.
I mean you asked me to reviewthis before it came out and I
have a signed copy from the MissKristen Jensen on this one.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I think you're listed in the back of the book too.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I think you are.
That's so funny.
Your resources, I think they've.
Just I knew how they helped meand that's why I kept
recommending them, because Ithought this is going to be.
And now my kids are 17 and 21.
And I look back and I'm sothankful for the foundation that
you helped me set in my home totalk to my kids about
pornography.
(05:10):
And of course, the conversationshifted in middle school and
high school and I had to getmore into the why behind the
harmful effects of pornography,which I want to talk about today
.
But these were justinstrumental and I just want to
say thank you for the work thatyou have done.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I appreciate everything that you've done, not
only for your own children, butfor your, but for your audience
and, um, you know we need about10,000 more Mandis out there,
and um, and so it's, uh, it's,it's great because I know you're
inspiring so many, so many, notonly helping but inspiring so
(05:51):
many other parents to do thisgood work that you're involved
in.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Well, it takes courage and you're so afraid
that you're going to say thewrong thing, and I think that's
where your books really helpedme, because I didn't want to
overexpose my kids, but I knew Ihad to.
What you say I'm going to quoteyou porn proof them.
I knew I had to do that,whether they were going to have
a phone or not, and so that'sreally where your work really
helped me engage in thatconversation about this specific
(06:19):
topic.
So, parents of littles threeand up, I want you to go get
these books and startimplementing them today.
Kristen, I know sometimes youget some backlash.
Do three-year-olds really needit?
Can you speak into that?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Well, like I said, it was a parent that came to me
and it was not just one, therewere several.
They came to me and said notjust one, there were several.
They came to me and said weneed a need one for younger
children.
I'm like, okay, all right, backthen I didn't have, uh,
grandchildren that were this agenow I do.
The problem is, is there's somuch access to pornography for
(06:58):
even little children, um,getting on phones, getting on
ipads, and oh, you've locked itdown and there's a way they find
a way or they go to a friend'shouse and get exposed.
So I was asked to speak at anearly childhood education
(07:21):
conference a couple years ago totalk about the junior book, and
also we have a wonderful playguide that goes with it that's
free to download.
So when you get the book, lookat the QR code, download that
free guide and it'll help youreally improve upon and, like,
make the book even moreimpactful with your children.
(07:43):
So, anyway, I was going thereto present this and kind of
launch it and speak about it andbefore my second class, a woman
came in and she said she was ateacher.
And she said when I first sawthat you were listed on this
program.
Like I was in shock why wouldwe need your stuff?
(08:05):
At a, you know, early childhooded conference.
But she said that I had thisexperience and it was someone
close to her three-year-old girlwho got into.
Uh, obviously she had access tosome kind of a you know a device
and she had seen, you know, ourkids imitate, they imitate,
(08:28):
they're, they're wired toimitate, and so she had seen,
I'm sure, her, her mom, likerecording things and making
videos and all this stuff.
So she used the device to makea video of her taking her
clothes off.
And so they're like reallyworried when they saw this video
.
They're like, oh my gosh, she'sbeing groomed.
(08:48):
And they started looking intothis.
Then they found a video of hertrying to have sex with the
family pet.
This was not a grooming.
They could never find ahands-on perpetrator.
What they found was porn.
Porn was the perpetrator andshe had obviously been watching
(09:09):
bestiality.
So this is the thing you can'tcontrol when your child is
exposed to porn.
I really hope it's not untilthey're way older, but you can't
like take that risk.
They need to know, they need tohave a heads up, they need to
know exactly what to do whenthey see it, so even as young as
(09:35):
three.
And then the other beautifulthing about starting at this age
is that it's just normalizedconversation, right?
It's just something you knowthat they are like oh yeah, we
talk about this and it's justone of the dangers, just like
body safety or, um, you know,not crossing the street until
you've looked both ways.
(09:56):
All those kinds of skills thatwe're teaching children need to
start early, and probablyearlier than you think.
That's why we have GoodPictures, bad Pictures, junior,
and it's become a number onebestseller along with the
original book, and it's just abeautiful, gentle way to begin
(10:19):
these very protectiveconversations.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Well, and I know you wrote the books because you
wanted to prevent.
You wanted the kids to know thered flags of what to look for
and I think for me that wasgreat to educate my kids on that
.
But for me as a parent and Italk about this in my book it
helped me to work on my parentfilter.
It helped me not to go crazyparent mode when they did start
(10:45):
communicating to me that theywere exposed to things, because
I was also learning how to havethis conversation without a lot
of emotion and reaction.
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Mandy, in the back of this book there is a section
notes to parents and caregiversand it talks.
We have a whole section on howto respond and say exactly that,
Right?
So you may have a lot of mixedfeelings but put a smile on your
face and just say thank you fortelling me.
And we also have a guide calledthe smart plan.
(11:18):
My kids saw porn Now what?
I'm just looking at the titleover here and guide called the
smart plan.
My kids saw porn Now what?
I'm just looking at the titleover here.
And it's a smart plan.
And the first step S is staycalm.
So if you find that your kidscome and tell you and you're all
freaked out, stay calm, go yellin your pillow, go talk to a
(11:39):
friend or a spouse, work throughyour own emotions before you
vomit them on your kid, right,just like, not to be graphic,
but like you know, that's kindof what we, we can do.
Now, even if you do that, thereare ways to kind of like repair
some of that, of course, but somuch better if you can stay
(11:59):
calm.
And I'm like I'm not a calmperson, to be honest.
I have anxiety issues, so Icould see why people are like,
ah, freak out.
But it's so important to like,stay calm and then make a plan.
And you know there's some stepsthat we have in this guide that
(12:19):
you can get on Defend YoungMinds to just help you walk
through, be prepared for what isgoing to happen.
If you've done it right, ifyou've done it right, your kids
will come and tell you and talkto you.
If they never come and talk toyou, it's because they don't
feel comfortable, maybe, orthey're just.
I'm not saying you're a badparent if they don't come and
(12:40):
talk to you.
I'm just saying that it's goodif they come and talk to you,
because then you can help themwork through this.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Well, we always say it doesn't feel like it's a win,
but it is a win when theyconfide in you, and I think just
what you're speaking into likeif they don't talk to you about
anything, they're not reportingthings to you it's it's a red
flag should go off in theparent's brain that we need to
(13:08):
do some work here on ourrelationship so that they feel
safe with me.
And we've all been there LikeI've had to do that as well.
I also wanted to say you know,I have had the overreaction,
crazy parent mode response, andone thing that I have learned
really well is if I say to mykid I'm so sorry that I had that
response, I was mad that you'regrowing up in a world that
(13:29):
that's on your app.
It shouldn't be and I'm madabout that and I'm still going
to be mad about that.
But I need you to knowsomething like I'm not mad at
you.
You did all the right things.
You saw something on yourscreen and you were like oh, the
right things.
You saw something on yourscreen and you were like oh,
this is, this is naked people ona screen, this is something I
need to tell mom about.
And you told me, and so I'm notmad at you you did all the
(13:51):
right things but I am mad thatyou live in a world that this is
happening, you know, and somaking that distinction for them
so they know why you had anoverreaction, it almost helps
repair the relationship and thenmaybe, like I've seen in my own
kid, it kind of gets themfrustrated with the world that
they're growing up in, that theyhave access to that kind of
(14:11):
stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Well, porn is the enemy, not your kid Right, Porn
is the enemy.
So just keep that in mind, eventhough sometimes you're just
like what.
I think that's so true.
And also sometimes when we makemistakes and we go and we work
to repair them, that's actuallya good not that you want to make
a mistake on purpose, but likethat's actually good modeling
(14:33):
for your child when they becomea parent.
You know they, they see thatyou are willing to apologize,
you are willing to say you knowwhat?
Can we do that over?
Do over right, Can we do thatover?
Because I really didn't mean to.
But again you're going to havethese feelings, You're going to
(14:53):
have anger, You're going tomaybe have shame or
embarrassment, You're going tobe disappointed.
Maybe there's all thesefeelings that if you will deal
with those first, then it'llwork out so much better for your
relationship and trust.
Because kids will test thewaters.
You know they'll give you alittle bit and then, if you
(15:14):
don't freak out, then they'llgive you a little bit more.
You know they're testing you.
So, as you build thatrelationship, know that even the
first little bit that they giveyou may not be the whole story,
but they're testing.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, a lot of times too.
I think kids will test with myfriend did this, or my friend
saw this when they were theactually the ones that did it,
or to kind of see how you'regoing to react to it.
And so I just have to becareful about how you navigate
that.
Not no shaming, but just oh,they're a kid that may not know
or may not know how harmful itis.
(15:46):
That kind of stuff, I think, isreally helpful.
So we've got these books to talkwith younger people and I've
noticed in my own home again Isaid this before it was a
launching pad to so manyconversations through the years.
And in fact, the good pictures,bad pictures, the one for the
elementary age, six and up, thatone I want you to explain to me
(16:07):
, the emotional, I think it'sthe thinking brain and the
feeling brain.
That, kristen, yes, it's helpedwith pornography, but you know
what else it's helped with Teenattitude, dating, when they
start feeling all the things.
And I'm like you're thinkingwith your feeling brain right
now.
Let's move it to the thinkingbrain.
That has been a launching padto not only talk about porn but
(16:31):
so many other topics drugs,trying, alcohol, like everything
.
Because you have you.
It may feel right, it may feelgood, but, logically, is this
the right?
Is this the right thing to doright now?
So just summarize that justbriefly what I'm talking about
here thinking brain and feelingbrain, and how you walk kids
(16:53):
through, how to maneuver that ingood pictures, bad pictures,
the elementary version, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah.
So kids love to learn abouttheir brain and when we say you
have two brains, they're likewhat?
And so we do have these twomajor sections.
Now this is very simplified,but what kids need to know is
they have a very primitivefeeling brain, and that brain
you could also call it thewanting brain right, it's the
(17:22):
brain that is definitely tryingto keep you alive, right, and
it's helping you with all kindsof feelings of hunger, thirst.
You know drives right, and evenyour sexual drives right.
So all of this your sexualdrives right.
(17:44):
So all of this we don't reallysay that outright in the in the
book, but all of these drivesthat that um, help to keep you
alive.
Now, your thinking brain isreally what makes us human.
It's that prefrontal cortex,that where we learn our values.
We learn our um, we learn fromour past mistakes.
We learn to think of thingslike logically so how is that
(18:06):
going?
We learn to think aboutconsequences, right, and we
learn right from wrong.
So If you know, in the book wesay which, after we explain the
two brains, we ask the questionlike which of these brains
should be making your importantdecisions?
Right, and it's the thinkingbrain.
(18:31):
The thing about this is it's theaddiction of any kind.
It puts the thinking brain inthe driver's seat.
Now the feeling brain is makingall the decisions and you're
bypassing that thinking brain inthe driver's seat.
Now the feeling brain is makingall the decisions and you're
bypassing that thinking brain.
And you know what happens.
When you bypass the thinkingbrain it shrinks.
And they've tested this on MRIsand they've shown that anyone
(18:54):
that's an addict to anything,whether it's substance or
behavioral, they have ashrinkage in their prefrontal
cortex in the gray matter.
It's well proven.
So it's so important that weaddiction proof our kids,
because this world is awash inaddiction, whether it's screens,
(19:16):
gambling, porn substances,fentanyl, whatever.
We need to teach our kids howto addiction-proof their brain.
And originally I was just goingto write a book about addiction
, right?
But a good friend of mineconvinced me.
No, no, no, the porn thing.
That's where kids can get intoan addiction easier, right?
They're not going to the cornerstore buying cigarettes and
(19:38):
alcohol.
We're not going to let them dothat.
What they can get on and seeporn, unfortunately, and we have
not yet shut that down.
So, yes, the so important forthem to understand in very
simple ways, and it's superpowerful, like you said, which
brain is in charge right now?
And let's move that from thatfeeling brain to the thinking
(20:01):
brain.
In the books we give kids adefinition, a warning and a plan
, and part of that plan istaking it from the feeling brain
into the thinking brain.
That's a very important.
It's all like based on scienceand how the brain works, based
on science and how the brainworks.
But if you can take thatinitial like whether it's
(20:23):
arousal, curiosity or whateverand then put it into the
thinking brain and think aboutit and what you should do, and
one of those steps is labelingit that's pornography, right,
and so so important for kids tounderstand their brains and have
(20:44):
that defense, I love thescience behind it and, like I
said, it started out as a way totalk to my kids about porn, but
it has translated into so manyother things as they've gotten
older and we've talked aboutscreen addiction, drug addiction
, alcohol addiction, all of it.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
It goes back to that feeling bring, thinking bring
that you outlined in this book.
I also want to say it's ascience based, non non faith
book.
So I mean, honestly, I feellike it should be in every
elementary school library inAmerica, like that's what I've
been advocating for in Texas Getthese books in in our school
(21:21):
libraries.
You know it's so good to startthat foundation.
But I also want to talk about,like, how does pornography
impact our mental health, ourwell-being?
Because I know these kinds ofconversations have been very
important as my kids have gottenolder, to explain that why
behind it.
You know they have the plan,they know thinking to feeling
(21:43):
and all of that.
But as a lot of their peers arewatching it and getting
educated by it and they may feelleft out because they're
talking about it all the time,reinforcing the why, honey,
there's so many harmful effectsof pornography, and so can we
talk about that for a little bithere.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Well, you know, early on I would hear stories about
people committing suicidebecause they could not stop and
they hated themselves and it wasruining their marriage and
whatever, or they were divorcedand I thought, oh, that's
terrible.
But like, where's the science?
Like, where are the studies?
Well, now we have so manystudies that are linking
(22:24):
pornography use with poor mentalhealth outcomes and in fact, I
was just not too long ago at aconference and gave a
presentation on mental healthdisorders and pornography.
You know a review of thatresearch and it's all over the
world.
These studies come from allover the world, not just the
(22:46):
United States, it's Europe, it'sChina, it's, you know,
australia.
They're all over the world.
Early intentional exposure toporn is associated with
depression among youth.
This was a longitudinal studyout of China.
There's more suicide ideationand suicide attempts for
(23:07):
frequent users.
This was a study of kids ages12 to 18 who are using internet
porn, and it was in Korea.
More kids are lonely.
More people are lonely Reportbeing lonely as they use
pornography more, which is sotrue for all addictions.
(23:27):
You may start drinking withyour friends or doing drugs with
your friends.
You're going to end up alone.
It doesn't last long withfriends.
It is something that will makeyou lonely.
All addictions will.
Porn is no exception.
More depression, lessself-worth is another study.
This was done in the UnitedStates with college students.
(23:51):
Porn users experience morenegative mental and physical
health.
Even that was a study done, Ithink, in the US, in I believe
that was in the Seattle areaUsers with problematic porn use
scored significantly higher inobsessive, compulsive behavior,
(24:13):
depression, anxiety, hostility,phobic anxiety and paranoid
ideation hostility, phobicanxiety and paranoid ideation.
As you go through all of theseand these are just a sampling
right of studies you see theimpact on mental health.
And when you talk to people whohave struggled to get out you
(24:34):
know I was just talking with amom she goes yeah, I got into
porn and she goes in the momentyou think it's going to distract
you from.
And that's another thing thesestudies show is that kids use it
for a distraction, like they'rehaving a negative emotion, and
they know if they go and useporn and do the things
associated with it, that they'llbe able to forget for a time
(25:01):
their problems.
But then, after they use it,she said I just felt like
terrible, just horrible.
You know, I hear a lot ofpeople telling me this, and then
I see the research.
So if we want our children tohave good, positive mental
health and to be successful andhave successful relationships,
(25:22):
we need to have theseconversations, honest
conversations.
We're not trying to scare themto death, but like they need to
know, you know, they need toknow what this can lead to and
just like anything like I had,my own own dad was an alcoholic
and it did not end well, and soand I know others that the first
(25:46):
drink, that's it right.
So there's always a spectrum ofhow quickly people can like get
into this and how quickly theycan get out of it, but it
definitely is associated withpoor mental health outcomes.
That we want to, you know.
We want our kids to have goodmental health and porn is not
(26:08):
going to help them in thatregard.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
It's not a it's not a positive thing for their life.
I mean, yeah, and and and.
Their brains just aren't fullycapable.
Like they're getting educatedabout sex through porn, which is
often what we're watching on ascreen, is often rape or trauma
or sexual abuse.
Right, I mean that's.
We have studies on that right,showing what we're actually
(26:34):
watching trafficked victims onpornography.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Absolutely so.
They're getting a very toxicview of sex and when they've
done studies and reports there'sI'm thinking of a report done
in the UK where kids were like Idon't even want it If my
parents are doing it like that,like I don't know, I don't ever
want to have sex like some.
Some people are just liketurned off because they don't,
(26:59):
they don't know, I don't everwant to have sex like some.
Some people are just liketurned off because they don't,
they don't want to do, theydon't want to.
The violence, the violence inporn, and the reason is the
reasons become so violent.
One of the reasons is becausewhen you put sex and violence
together, you get a bigger likerush of chemical brain chemicals
and so it feeds into addiction.
(27:20):
You're always chasing the high.
You can't get it with the sameold vanilla porn, so now it's
got to become this or more likeyou know.
Uh, people get fetishes withcertain kinds of porn.
They spend hours and hours andhours looking just for that
right clip that will arouse themand and it becomes such a time
waster.
(27:40):
So there's another thing.
I mean it's toxic.
There are things they do inporn, very common things I will
never, ever say, on a podcast.
Not only that, but caught like,as far as cognitive development
, the time that they waste itsucks them in.
The time that they waste onporn, the time that they waste
on screens even, is getting inthe way of them developing
(28:04):
normally and naturally.
And so, again, we need to be,we need to warn kids about this
so they have the facts.
Mandy, they're not going to behappy when they get older if
they haven't been warned andthey've been pulled it.
I've heard of many kidscomplaining that their parents
never talk to them, so we needto do them a favor.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Well, and I think I think one thing too is just, you
know, I would just, on a realpractical thing, say to my kids
look, when you see that, whenyou see that on a screen, you're
going to go to school tomorrowand you're going to see people
differently.
And I don't want that for you.
I don't want that You're goingto be thinking about what's
under that mini skirt or what'sunder that those pair of shorts,
instead of like seeing theperson you know and that does
(28:47):
something to your developingbrain, like just making them
aware that it makes you see theworld differently.
When you go to bed at night andclose your eyes, you're going
to see different things.
You know, we talked a lot aboutthe mental health stuff, but
also and you and I have talkedabout this because I know, when
I first started seeing this atNext Talk I mean I remember
(29:09):
talking to you about thisspecifically at a conference I
pulled you aside and I said isthis like I'm seeing a lot of
this?
Are you seeing this?
And it was the child on childsexual abuse stuff, because back
then, when we were starting tosee it early on, we didn't have
a ton of research to back it up,but it was like so many
(29:29):
families were coming out of thewoodwork after my event saying
you know, I have an older boy oran older cousin with a younger
boy younger and pornography isalways involved here, and so
that's even another level of howit's affecting their mental
health.
They're literally experiencingtrauma from sexual abuse that
will take years to recover from.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Really quickly.
We started hearing about thisnine, 10 years ago and seeing
that again, porn was aperpetrator, porn was causing
kids to uh perpetrate on otherkids even if they had never had
a hands-on um abuser.
I was at a uh child abuseconference uh this last year.
(30:14):
But one thing that wasinteresting is that it used to
be 40%, so we'd always quotethis like 40% of child abuse is
done by other children, minorsright, child on child.
Now it's 70%, 70%, so in 10years it's gone up to 70%.
(30:35):
What is driving that Really?
Is there that many moreperpetrators that are hands-on?
I believe a big part of it ispornography is the perpetrator.
They're learning and kids arewired to imitate.
That's how they learn.
We all know it.
As parents, we see our kidsimitate us, you know, and it can
be funny, it can also beterrifying, but they do.
(31:00):
If they see this, it's just nota stretch to think that they
can then go and perpetrate onanother child and in their mind
it's just another form of play.
But it's a very harmful form ofplay.
I was on a plane going to aconference years a conference um
(31:20):
years ago about this problemchild on child Right and sitting
next to me was a, a guy who wasa pilot, a private pilot.
He was going to his next joband he asked me what I was doing
and we're like, well, this iswhat I'm doing, this is where
I'm going, it's kind of heavy.
(31:41):
And he just his face just felland he, he's probably like in
his late thirties and he justsaid to me he goes.
You know, that happened to me,that happened to me when I was a
kid.
He says I'm still not over it.
Honestly, it can go for alifetime.
So it's not just protectingyour own children from sexual
(32:04):
abuse and there is reallyactually I have so many stories
and again, maybe this is anotherpodcast but so many stories of
children who their parents haveread the book Good Pictures, Bad
Pictures to them and it hassaved them from a hands-on
abuser because they recognizedand reported the number one
grooming toll, which ispornography.
(32:27):
And I've got lots of storiesabout that where kids have just,
you know, they went andreported and then they got away
from a potential perpetrator, achild predator.
But it will keep your child,help your child not to become
again.
That child is also a victim.
(32:47):
The perpetrators that arechildren.
They're also victims ofpornography and I'll tell you if
you get in this situation.
I don't want to be scaring you,but I'm telling you depending.
I've looked into this and we'vewritten up about it on Defend
Young Minds If you get into thissituation, it depends on the
(33:11):
laws in your state and it issomething you really want to
avoid at all costs.
You know, don't think that yourchild could never have this
happen to them.
Prepare them, talk to them soyou don't look at porn.
You want to be safe frompredators, but you also don't
want to be someone acting outlike this on another child ever.
(33:34):
We don't want to raise apredator.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
We don't want to raise a predator.
We don't want to raise apredator, and I know they're
victims too if they're kids.
But we have to be careful aboutthat.
And it's so important too thatif it does happen in your home
or your family, that steps aretaken to report it, because the
victim child needs to see thatsomething is done too.
And then it's not right, andthen you get into the different
(33:58):
state laws there.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
So we have some really good articles about this
on Defend Young Minds.
If you feel in your heart, youshould just check it out, maybe
for a friend, honestly, beforeyou would report it or do
anything like read up.
Give yourself a few days toread up, because there are some
(34:21):
things that you should be doingto help your own child and the
child that was hurt.
Both of them need help, both ofthem need counseling and there
are some really good programsout there for kids that have
offended on other children andso you can learn about them at
Defend Young Minds.
Okay, great.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
You have all these research articles.
Everything that we've talkedabout is at Defend Young Minds.
That's your website.
I want to thank you for all thework that you're doing.
Do you have any other newupcoming projects that we need
to be looking out for?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yes, so we are.
I am writing a book for girls.
So good pictures, bad picturesfor girls.
Because, as you know, more andmore girls are getting into it
and they get into it in slightlydifferent ways, and there's a
lot of body image issues with itwhich can lead to, you know,
(35:15):
all kinds of other problems, andso we want to talk to them
about objectification.
We want to talk to them aboutsome of the harms of pornography
that's in books, right?
So pornography is not justpictures in a book, a video.
(35:37):
It's pictures that can becreated in your mind through
what you're reading, and that'sjust as harmful and addicting as
the visual videos that oftenboys start with, but girls will
often end up there, whether it'svideos, whether it's anime porn
(35:59):
, which is called hentai.
You just want to make sure yourgirls because we have kind of
been ignoring girls oh, they'regirls, they're not going to be
interested in this.
It's a boy problem.
It's not a boy problem, it'snot a girl problem, it's a human
problem.
And so we're writing, I'mwriting a good pictures, bad
(36:24):
pictures for girls.
I'm also preparing to pulltogether one for teens, like a
conversations for teens, becausewe just get asked so much.
You know how can I take thisinformation from good pictures,
bad pictures, and pump it upright and make it relevant for
teens?
So we're working on that.
So lots of good things comingout.
It relevant for teens?
So we're working on that.
So lots of good things comingout.
So I will put in a shamelesspitch to subscribe to Defend
Young Minds and get our weeklynewsletter, and you will be
hearing all about these newprojects coming out.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Well, Kristen, thanks for being here and taking time
out of your busy schedule.
Come back on our show and justthank you for all the work you
continue to do.
I'm very excited for your newprojects coming out.
Thank you, Mandy.
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast.
We are a nonprofit passionateabout keeping kids safe online.
We're learning together how tonavigate tech, culture and faith
with our kids.
Today we have Kristen Jensenwith us.
She is a best selling author,kristen.
Welcome to the show.
Thank you, mandy.
(00:23):
It's so good to be back herewith you.
Kristen, welcome to the show.
Thank you, mandy.
It's so good to be back herewith you.
You're not a stranger.
We have known each other manalmost eight to 10 years.
We met at a conference.
We were both really new to thisline of work back then and it's
been really cool to see yourbooks be such a resource for
parents.
I mean, I know when I foundthem, they were so fantastic.
(00:43):
You're the author of GoodPictures, Bad Pictures and
everybody who's listening islike, oh, this is the lady that
Mandy's always talking about.
But I want you to take us backto why you wrote it, the
backstory of what led you towrite this book.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yes, well, it was not in my my plans, not a life goal
, but I met a mom of a largefamily, very faithful, and it
turns out her 17 year old sonwas molesting his younger
brothers and sisters, from the14 year old down to the four
year old, and it really had somevery negative consequences, not
(01:22):
only for him but for the family, and pornography was definitely
involved in promoting thatbehavior.
And so I talked to her lateinto the night, like 1.30 in the
morning, and I just couldn'tget this thought out of my mind
that they're, you know, youngchildren needed to be warned
about this problem ofpornography and what it can do
(01:44):
to their minds.
I went and looked.
I thought, oh yeah, I'll justgo on online or on Amazon,
whatever, I'll find a book andI'll get it for her.
And I couldn't find anything.
And I thought this isridiculous.
There has to be a book.
There has to be a read aloudbook.
There was all these books aboutbody safety.
Read a lab book.
(02:05):
But you can, you know there wasall these books about body
safety.
Right, I thought there's gottabe a mind safety book, you know,
uh, for digital dangers, um,but I couldn't find it.
So I started like doing someresearch and and started
educating myself.
I mean, I already knew thatpornography could be an
addiction, but I didn't knowthat children were being
impacted at at the rate and atthe seriousness that they were
(02:26):
being impacted.
So, yeah, that was thebeginning of writing good
pictures, bad pictures.
I have a lot of help from a lotof other really smart people
and that came out in 2014.
And then parents came to me andsaid, what about a book for
younger children?
And that was like I rememberthe first mom that asked me that
(02:47):
after a presentation and she'slike what about for
three-year-olds?
And I'm like what?
And then I looked around and somany three-year-olds are on
tablets and iPads.
And so we wrote Good Pictures,bad Pictures, junior for like
three to seven.
And then the original GoodPictures, bad Pictures, porn
(03:09):
Proofing to Days Young Kids isfor seven-ish to 11-ish.
You know, it really depends onthe child.
I know parents that use it as alike a, even as a guideline for
teens although there's a lotmore that teens need to know but
just to begin conversationsabout the brain, about addiction
(03:33):
and about some of the harms ofpornography.
So I'm so very grateful that Icould provide a resource for
parents in that way a resourcefor parents in that in that way.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Well, and what is so cool is I think I found year
around 14 or 15, 2014 or 15,because my kid had been exposed
to pornography through aconversation.
You know, no phones werepresent and my thought was I'm
never given her a phone, so I'mnot going to have to worry about
pornography.
But then she got exposed tothis graphic nature, this image
in her mind that had beenpainted to her through a
conversation, no screens present.
(04:09):
And that was my moment where Iwas like, whether I get my kid a
phone or not, I have to talk toher about pornography.
And that's when I startedsearching online for books and I
found yours.
Didn't know you back then andthen I started using it in my
home.
It was a huge help for me justhaving that initial conversation
of what do I even say in thebeginning, and it got the
(04:32):
dialogue happening, and so thenI got to meet you and have you
on the podcast and it's justbeen a joy.
And then Good Pictures BadPictures, junior.
I mean you asked me to reviewthis before it came out and I
have a signed copy from the MissKristen Jensen on this one.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I think you're listed in the back of the book too.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I think you are.
That's so funny.
Your resources, I think they've.
Just I knew how they helped meand that's why I kept
recommending them, because Ithought this is going to be.
And now my kids are 17 and 21.
And I look back and I'm sothankful for the foundation that
you helped me set in my home totalk to my kids about
pornography.
(05:10):
And of course, the conversationshifted in middle school and
high school and I had to getmore into the why behind the
harmful effects of pornography,which I want to talk about today
.
But these were justinstrumental and I just want to
say thank you for the work thatyou have done.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I appreciate everything that you've done, not
only for your own children, butfor your, but for your audience
and, um, you know we need about10,000 more Mandis out there,
and um, and so it's, uh, it's,it's great because I know you're
inspiring so many, so many, notonly helping but inspiring so
(05:51):
many other parents to do thisgood work that you're involved
in.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Well, it takes courage and you're so afraid
that you're going to say thewrong thing, and I think that's
where your books really helpedme, because I didn't want to
overexpose my kids, but I knew Ihad to.
What you say I'm going to quoteyou porn proof them.
I knew I had to do that,whether they were going to have
a phone or not, and so that'sreally where your work really
helped me engage in thatconversation about this specific
(06:19):
topic.
So, parents of littles threeand up, I want you to go get
these books and startimplementing them today.
Kristen, I know sometimes youget some backlash.
Do three-year-olds really needit?
Can you speak into that?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Well, like I said, it was a parent that came to me
and it was not just one, therewere several.
They came to me and said notjust one, there were several.
They came to me and said weneed a need one for younger
children.
I'm like, okay, all right, backthen I didn't have, uh,
grandchildren that were this agenow I do.
The problem is, is there's somuch access to pornography for
(06:58):
even little children, um,getting on phones, getting on
ipads, and oh, you've locked itdown and there's a way they find
a way or they go to a friend'shouse and get exposed.
So I was asked to speak at anearly childhood education
(07:21):
conference a couple years ago totalk about the junior book, and
also we have a wonderful playguide that goes with it that's
free to download.
So when you get the book, lookat the QR code, download that
free guide and it'll help youreally improve upon and, like,
make the book even moreimpactful with your children.
(07:43):
So, anyway, I was going thereto present this and kind of
launch it and speak about it andbefore my second class, a woman
came in and she said she was ateacher.
And she said when I first sawthat you were listed on this
program.
Like I was in shock why wouldwe need your stuff?
(08:05):
At a, you know, early childhooded conference.
But she said that I had thisexperience and it was someone
close to her three-year-old girlwho got into.
Uh, obviously she had access tosome kind of a you know a device
and she had seen, you know, ourkids imitate, they imitate,
(08:28):
they're, they're wired toimitate, and so she had seen,
I'm sure, her, her mom, likerecording things and making
videos and all this stuff.
So she used the device to makea video of her taking her
clothes off.
And so they're like reallyworried when they saw this video
.
They're like, oh my gosh, she'sbeing groomed.
(08:48):
And they started looking intothis.
Then they found a video of hertrying to have sex with the
family pet.
This was not a grooming.
They could never find ahands-on perpetrator.
What they found was porn.
Porn was the perpetrator andshe had obviously been watching
(09:09):
bestiality.
So this is the thing you can'tcontrol when your child is
exposed to porn.
I really hope it's not untilthey're way older, but you can't
like take that risk.
They need to know, they need tohave a heads up, they need to
know exactly what to do whenthey see it, so even as young as
(09:35):
three.
And then the other beautifulthing about starting at this age
is that it's just normalizedconversation, right?
It's just something you knowthat they are like oh yeah, we
talk about this and it's justone of the dangers, just like
body safety or, um, you know,not crossing the street until
you've looked both ways.
(09:56):
All those kinds of skills thatwe're teaching children need to
start early, and probablyearlier than you think.
That's why we have GoodPictures, bad Pictures, junior,
and it's become a number onebestseller along with the
original book, and it's just abeautiful, gentle way to begin
(10:19):
these very protectiveconversations.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Well, and I know you wrote the books because you
wanted to prevent.
You wanted the kids to know thered flags of what to look for
and I think for me that wasgreat to educate my kids on that
.
But for me as a parent and Italk about this in my book it
helped me to work on my parentfilter.
It helped me not to go crazyparent mode when they did start
(10:45):
communicating to me that theywere exposed to things, because
I was also learning how to havethis conversation without a lot
of emotion and reaction.
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Mandy, in the back of this book there is a section
notes to parents and caregiversand it talks.
We have a whole section on howto respond and say exactly that,
Right?
So you may have a lot of mixedfeelings but put a smile on your
face and just say thank you fortelling me.
And we also have a guide calledthe smart plan.
(11:18):
My kids saw porn Now what?
I'm just looking at the titleover here and guide called the
smart plan.
My kids saw porn Now what?
I'm just looking at the titleover here.
And it's a smart plan.
And the first step S is staycalm.
So if you find that your kidscome and tell you and you're all
freaked out, stay calm, go yellin your pillow, go talk to a
(11:39):
friend or a spouse, work throughyour own emotions before you
vomit them on your kid, right,just like, not to be graphic,
but like you know, that's kindof what we, we can do.
Now, even if you do that, thereare ways to kind of like repair
some of that, of course, but somuch better if you can stay
(11:59):
calm.
And I'm like I'm not a calmperson, to be honest.
I have anxiety issues, so Icould see why people are like,
ah, freak out.
But it's so important to like,stay calm and then make a plan.
And you know there's some stepsthat we have in this guide that
(12:19):
you can get on Defend YoungMinds to just help you walk
through, be prepared for what isgoing to happen.
If you've done it right, ifyou've done it right, your kids
will come and tell you and talkto you.
If they never come and talk toyou, it's because they don't
feel comfortable, maybe, orthey're just.
I'm not saying you're a badparent if they don't come and
(12:40):
talk to you.
I'm just saying that it's goodif they come and talk to you,
because then you can help themwork through this.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Well, we always say it doesn't feel like it's a win,
but it is a win when theyconfide in you, and I think just
what you're speaking into likeif they don't talk to you about
anything, they're not reportingthings to you it's it's a red
flag should go off in theparent's brain that we need to
(13:08):
do some work here on ourrelationship so that they feel
safe with me.
And we've all been there LikeI've had to do that as well.
I also wanted to say you know,I have had the overreaction,
crazy parent mode response, andone thing that I have learned
really well is if I say to mykid I'm so sorry that I had that
response, I was mad that you'regrowing up in a world that
(13:29):
that's on your app.
It shouldn't be and I'm madabout that and I'm still going
to be mad about that.
But I need you to knowsomething like I'm not mad at
you.
You did all the right things.
You saw something on yourscreen and you were like oh, the
right things.
You saw something on yourscreen and you were like oh,
this is, this is naked people ona screen, this is something I
need to tell mom about.
And you told me, and so I'm notmad at you you did all the
(13:51):
right things but I am mad thatyou live in a world that this is
happening, you know, and somaking that distinction for them
so they know why you had anoverreaction, it almost helps
repair the relationship and thenmaybe, like I've seen in my own
kid, it kind of gets themfrustrated with the world that
they're growing up in, that theyhave access to that kind of
(14:11):
stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Well, porn is the enemy, not your kid Right, Porn
is the enemy.
So just keep that in mind, eventhough sometimes you're just
like what.
I think that's so true.
And also sometimes when we makemistakes and we go and we work
to repair them, that's actuallya good not that you want to make
a mistake on purpose, but likethat's actually good modeling
(14:33):
for your child when they becomea parent.
You know they, they see thatyou are willing to apologize,
you are willing to say you knowwhat?
Can we do that over?
Do over right, Can we do thatover?
Because I really didn't mean to.
But again you're going to havethese feelings, You're going to
(14:53):
have anger, You're going tomaybe have shame or
embarrassment, You're going tobe disappointed.
Maybe there's all thesefeelings that if you will deal
with those first, then it'llwork out so much better for your
relationship and trust.
Because kids will test thewaters.
You know they'll give you alittle bit and then, if you
(15:14):
don't freak out, then they'llgive you a little bit more.
You know they're testing you.
So, as you build thatrelationship, know that even the
first little bit that they giveyou may not be the whole story,
but they're testing.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, a lot of times too.
I think kids will test with myfriend did this, or my friend
saw this when they were theactually the ones that did it,
or to kind of see how you'regoing to react to it.
And so I just have to becareful about how you navigate
that.
Not no shaming, but just oh,they're a kid that may not know
or may not know how harmful itis.
(15:46):
That kind of stuff, I think, isreally helpful.
So we've got these books to talkwith younger people and I've
noticed in my own home again Isaid this before it was a
launching pad to so manyconversations through the years.
And in fact, the good pictures,bad pictures, the one for the
elementary age, six and up, thatone I want you to explain to me
(16:07):
, the emotional, I think it'sthe thinking brain and the
feeling brain.
That, kristen, yes, it's helpedwith pornography, but you know
what else it's helped with Teenattitude, dating, when they
start feeling all the things.
And I'm like you're thinkingwith your feeling brain right
now.
Let's move it to the thinkingbrain.
That has been a launching padto not only talk about porn but
(16:31):
so many other topics drugs,trying, alcohol, like everything
.
Because you have you.
It may feel right, it may feelgood, but, logically, is this
the right?
Is this the right thing to doright now?
So just summarize that justbriefly what I'm talking about
here thinking brain and feelingbrain, and how you walk kids
(16:53):
through, how to maneuver that ingood pictures, bad pictures,
the elementary version, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah.
So kids love to learn abouttheir brain and when we say you
have two brains, they're likewhat?
And so we do have these twomajor sections.
Now this is very simplified,but what kids need to know is
they have a very primitivefeeling brain, and that brain
you could also call it thewanting brain right, it's the
(17:22):
brain that is definitely tryingto keep you alive, right, and
it's helping you with all kindsof feelings of hunger, thirst.
You know drives right, and evenyour sexual drives right.
So all of this your sexualdrives right.
(17:44):
So all of this we don't reallysay that outright in the in the
book, but all of these drivesthat that um, help to keep you
alive.
Now, your thinking brain isreally what makes us human.
It's that prefrontal cortex,that where we learn our values.
We learn our um, we learn fromour past mistakes.
We learn to think of thingslike logically so how is that
(18:06):
going?
We learn to think aboutconsequences, right, and we
learn right from wrong.
So If you know, in the book wesay which, after we explain the
two brains, we ask the questionlike which of these brains
should be making your importantdecisions?
Right, and it's the thinkingbrain.
(18:31):
The thing about this is it's theaddiction of any kind.
It puts the thinking brain inthe driver's seat.
Now the feeling brain is makingall the decisions and you're
bypassing that thinking brain inthe driver's seat.
Now the feeling brain is makingall the decisions and you're
bypassing that thinking brain.
And you know what happens.
When you bypass the thinkingbrain it shrinks.
And they've tested this on MRIsand they've shown that anyone
(18:54):
that's an addict to anything,whether it's substance or
behavioral, they have ashrinkage in their prefrontal
cortex in the gray matter.
It's well proven.
So it's so important that weaddiction proof our kids,
because this world is awash inaddiction, whether it's screens,
(19:16):
gambling, porn substances,fentanyl, whatever.
We need to teach our kids howto addiction-proof their brain.
And originally I was just goingto write a book about addiction
, right?
But a good friend of mineconvinced me.
No, no, no, the porn thing.
That's where kids can get intoan addiction easier, right?
They're not going to the cornerstore buying cigarettes and
(19:38):
alcohol.
We're not going to let them dothat.
What they can get on and seeporn, unfortunately, and we have
not yet shut that down.
So, yes, the so important forthem to understand in very
simple ways, and it's superpowerful, like you said, which
brain is in charge right now?
And let's move that from thatfeeling brain to the thinking
(20:01):
brain.
In the books we give kids adefinition, a warning and a plan
, and part of that plan istaking it from the feeling brain
into the thinking brain.
That's a very important.
It's all like based on scienceand how the brain works, based
on science and how the brainworks.
But if you can take thatinitial like whether it's
(20:23):
arousal, curiosity or whateverand then put it into the
thinking brain and think aboutit and what you should do, and
one of those steps is labelingit that's pornography, right,
and so so important for kids tounderstand their brains and have
(20:44):
that defense, I love thescience behind it and, like I
said, it started out as a way totalk to my kids about porn, but
it has translated into so manyother things as they've gotten
older and we've talked aboutscreen addiction, drug addiction
, alcohol addiction, all of it.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
It goes back to that feeling bring, thinking bring
that you outlined in this book.
I also want to say it's ascience based, non non faith
book.
So I mean, honestly, I feellike it should be in every
elementary school library inAmerica, like that's what I've
been advocating for in Texas Getthese books in in our school
(21:21):
libraries.
You know it's so good to startthat foundation.
But I also want to talk about,like, how does pornography
impact our mental health, ourwell-being?
Because I know these kinds ofconversations have been very
important as my kids have gottenolder, to explain that why
behind it.
You know they have the plan,they know thinking to feeling
(21:43):
and all of that.
But as a lot of their peers arewatching it and getting
educated by it and they may feelleft out because they're
talking about it all the time,reinforcing the why, honey,
there's so many harmful effectsof pornography, and so can we
talk about that for a little bithere.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Well, you know, early on I would hear stories about
people committing suicidebecause they could not stop and
they hated themselves and it wasruining their marriage and
whatever, or they were divorcedand I thought, oh, that's
terrible.
But like, where's the science?
Like, where are the studies?
Well, now we have so manystudies that are linking
(22:24):
pornography use with poor mentalhealth outcomes and in fact, I
was just not too long ago at aconference and gave a
presentation on mental healthdisorders and pornography.
You know a review of thatresearch and it's all over the
world.
These studies come from allover the world, not just the
(22:46):
United States, it's Europe, it'sChina, it's, you know,
australia.
They're all over the world.
Early intentional exposure toporn is associated with
depression among youth.
This was a longitudinal studyout of China.
There's more suicide ideationand suicide attempts for
(23:07):
frequent users.
This was a study of kids ages12 to 18 who are using internet
porn, and it was in Korea.
More kids are lonely.
More people are lonely Reportbeing lonely as they use
pornography more, which is sotrue for all addictions.
(23:27):
You may start drinking withyour friends or doing drugs with
your friends.
You're going to end up alone.
It doesn't last long withfriends.
It is something that will makeyou lonely.
All addictions will.
Porn is no exception.
More depression, lessself-worth is another study.
This was done in the UnitedStates with college students.
(23:51):
Porn users experience morenegative mental and physical
health.
Even that was a study done, Ithink, in the US, in I believe
that was in the Seattle areaUsers with problematic porn use
scored significantly higher inobsessive, compulsive behavior,
(24:13):
depression, anxiety, hostility,phobic anxiety and paranoid
ideation hostility, phobicanxiety and paranoid ideation.
As you go through all of theseand these are just a sampling
right of studies you see theimpact on mental health.
And when you talk to people whohave struggled to get out you
(24:34):
know I was just talking with amom she goes yeah, I got into
porn and she goes in the momentyou think it's going to distract
you from.
And that's another thing thesestudies show is that kids use it
for a distraction, like they'rehaving a negative emotion, and
they know if they go and useporn and do the things
associated with it, that they'llbe able to forget for a time
(25:01):
their problems.
But then, after they use it,she said I just felt like
terrible, just horrible.
You know, I hear a lot ofpeople telling me this, and then
I see the research.
So if we want our children tohave good, positive mental
health and to be successful andhave successful relationships,
(25:22):
we need to have theseconversations, honest
conversations.
We're not trying to scare themto death, but like they need to
know, you know, they need toknow what this can lead to and
just like anything like I had,my own own dad was an alcoholic
and it did not end well, and soand I know others that the first
(25:46):
drink, that's it right.
So there's always a spectrum ofhow quickly people can like get
into this and how quickly theycan get out of it, but it
definitely is associated withpoor mental health outcomes.
That we want to, you know.
We want our kids to have goodmental health and porn is not
(26:08):
going to help them in thatregard.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
It's not a it's not a positive thing for their life.
I mean, yeah, and and and.
Their brains just aren't fullycapable.
Like they're getting educatedabout sex through porn, which is
often what we're watching on ascreen, is often rape or trauma
or sexual abuse.
Right, I mean that's.
We have studies on that right,showing what we're actually
(26:34):
watching trafficked victims onpornography.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Absolutely so.
They're getting a very toxicview of sex and when they've
done studies and reports there'sI'm thinking of a report done
in the UK where kids were like Idon't even want it If my
parents are doing it like that,like I don't know, I don't ever
want to have sex like some.
Some people are just liketurned off because they don't,
(26:59):
they don't know, I don't everwant to have sex like some.
Some people are just liketurned off because they don't,
they don't want to do, theydon't want to.
The violence, the violence inporn, and the reason is the
reasons become so violent.
One of the reasons is becausewhen you put sex and violence
together, you get a bigger likerush of chemical brain chemicals
and so it feeds into addiction.
(27:20):
You're always chasing the high.
You can't get it with the sameold vanilla porn, so now it's
got to become this or more likeyou know.
Uh, people get fetishes withcertain kinds of porn.
They spend hours and hours andhours looking just for that
right clip that will arouse themand and it becomes such a time
waster.
(27:40):
So there's another thing.
I mean it's toxic.
There are things they do inporn, very common things I will
never, ever say, on a podcast.
Not only that, but caught like,as far as cognitive development
, the time that they waste itsucks them in.
The time that they waste onporn, the time that they waste
on screens even, is getting inthe way of them developing
(28:04):
normally and naturally.
And so, again, we need to be,we need to warn kids about this
so they have the facts.
Mandy, they're not going to behappy when they get older if
they haven't been warned andthey've been pulled it.
I've heard of many kidscomplaining that their parents
never talk to them, so we needto do them a favor.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Well, and I think I think one thing too is just, you
know, I would just, on a realpractical thing, say to my kids
look, when you see that, whenyou see that on a screen, you're
going to go to school tomorrowand you're going to see people
differently.
And I don't want that for you.
I don't want that You're goingto be thinking about what's
under that mini skirt or what'sunder that those pair of shorts,
instead of like seeing theperson you know and that does
(28:47):
something to your developingbrain, like just making them
aware that it makes you see theworld differently.
When you go to bed at night andclose your eyes, you're going
to see different things.
You know, we talked a lot aboutthe mental health stuff, but
also and you and I have talkedabout this because I know, when
I first started seeing this atNext Talk I mean I remember
(29:09):
talking to you about thisspecifically at a conference I
pulled you aside and I said isthis like I'm seeing a lot of
this?
Are you seeing this?
And it was the child on childsexual abuse stuff, because back
then, when we were starting tosee it early on, we didn't have
a ton of research to back it up,but it was like so many
(29:29):
families were coming out of thewoodwork after my event saying
you know, I have an older boy oran older cousin with a younger
boy younger and pornography isalways involved here, and so
that's even another level of howit's affecting their mental
health.
They're literally experiencingtrauma from sexual abuse that
will take years to recover from.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Really quickly.
We started hearing about thisnine, 10 years ago and seeing
that again, porn was aperpetrator, porn was causing
kids to uh perpetrate on otherkids even if they had never had
a hands-on um abuser.
I was at a uh child abuseconference uh this last year.
(30:14):
But one thing that wasinteresting is that it used to
be 40%, so we'd always quotethis like 40% of child abuse is
done by other children, minorsright, child on child.
Now it's 70%, 70%, so in 10years it's gone up to 70%.
(30:35):
What is driving that Really?
Is there that many moreperpetrators that are hands-on?
I believe a big part of it ispornography is the perpetrator.
They're learning and kids arewired to imitate.
That's how they learn.
We all know it.
As parents, we see our kidsimitate us, you know, and it can
be funny, it can also beterrifying, but they do.
(31:00):
If they see this, it's just nota stretch to think that they
can then go and perpetrate onanother child and in their mind
it's just another form of play.
But it's a very harmful form ofplay.
I was on a plane going to aconference years a conference um
(31:20):
years ago about this problemchild on child Right and sitting
next to me was a, a guy who wasa pilot, a private pilot.
He was going to his next joband he asked me what I was doing
and we're like, well, this iswhat I'm doing, this is where
I'm going, it's kind of heavy.
(31:41):
And he just his face just felland he, he's probably like in
his late thirties and he justsaid to me he goes.
You know, that happened to me,that happened to me when I was a
kid.
He says I'm still not over it.
Honestly, it can go for alifetime.
So it's not just protectingyour own children from sexual
(32:04):
abuse and there is reallyactually I have so many stories
and again, maybe this is anotherpodcast but so many stories of
children who their parents haveread the book Good Pictures, Bad
Pictures to them and it hassaved them from a hands-on
abuser because they recognizedand reported the number one
grooming toll, which ispornography.
(32:27):
And I've got lots of storiesabout that where kids have just,
you know, they went andreported and then they got away
from a potential perpetrator, achild predator.
But it will keep your child,help your child not to become
again.
That child is also a victim.
(32:47):
The perpetrators that arechildren.
They're also victims ofpornography and I'll tell you if
you get in this situation.
I don't want to be scaring you,but I'm telling you depending.
I've looked into this and we'vewritten up about it on Defend
Young Minds If you get into thissituation, it depends on the
(33:11):
laws in your state and it issomething you really want to
avoid at all costs.
You know, don't think that yourchild could never have this
happen to them.
Prepare them, talk to them soyou don't look at porn.
You want to be safe frompredators, but you also don't
want to be someone acting outlike this on another child ever.
(33:34):
We don't want to raise apredator.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
We don't want to raise a predator.
We don't want to raise apredator, and I know they're
victims too if they're kids.
But we have to be careful aboutthat.
And it's so important too thatif it does happen in your home
or your family, that steps aretaken to report it, because the
victim child needs to see thatsomething is done too.
And then it's not right, andthen you get into the different
(33:58):
state laws there.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
So we have some really good articles about this
on Defend Young Minds.
If you feel in your heart, youshould just check it out, maybe
for a friend, honestly, beforeyou would report it or do
anything like read up.
Give yourself a few days toread up, because there are some
(34:21):
things that you should be doingto help your own child and the
child that was hurt.
Both of them need help, both ofthem need counseling and there
are some really good programsout there for kids that have
offended on other children andso you can learn about them at
Defend Young Minds.
Okay, great.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
You have all these research articles.
Everything that we've talkedabout is at Defend Young Minds.
That's your website.
I want to thank you for all thework that you're doing.
Do you have any other newupcoming projects that we need
to be looking out for?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yes, so we are.
I am writing a book for girls.
So good pictures, bad picturesfor girls.
Because, as you know, more andmore girls are getting into it
and they get into it in slightlydifferent ways, and there's a
lot of body image issues with itwhich can lead to, you know,
(35:15):
all kinds of other problems, andso we want to talk to them
about objectification.
We want to talk to them aboutsome of the harms of pornography
that's in books, right?
So pornography is not justpictures in a book, a video.
(35:37):
It's pictures that can becreated in your mind through
what you're reading, and that'sjust as harmful and addicting as
the visual videos that oftenboys start with, but girls will
often end up there, whether it'svideos, whether it's anime porn
(35:59):
, which is called hentai.
You just want to make sure yourgirls because we have kind of
been ignoring girls oh, they'regirls, they're not going to be
interested in this.
It's a boy problem.
It's not a boy problem, it'snot a girl problem, it's a human
problem.
And so we're writing, I'mwriting a good pictures, bad
(36:24):
pictures for girls.
I'm also preparing to pulltogether one for teens, like a
conversations for teens, becausewe just get asked so much.
You know how can I take thisinformation from good pictures,
bad pictures, and pump it upright and make it relevant for
teens?
So we're working on that.
So lots of good things comingout.
It relevant for teens?
So we're working on that.
So lots of good things comingout.
So I will put in a shamelesspitch to subscribe to Defend
Young Minds and get our weeklynewsletter, and you will be
hearing all about these newprojects coming out.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Well, Kristen, thanks for being here and taking time
out of your busy schedule.
Come back on our show and justthank you for all the work you
continue to do.
I'm very excited for your newprojects coming out.
Thank you, Mandy.
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