February 21, 2025 • 33 mins
KEEPING KIDS SAFE ONLINE
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast.
We are a nonprofit passionateabout keeping kids safe online.
We're learning together how tonavigate tech, culture and faith
with our kids.
We have TalkHop back with ustoday, Jermaine Galloway.
Jermaine, thank you for beinghere.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Thank you guys for having me back.
It's a good thing when theybring you back.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Absolutely.
You've become a great resourcefor our parents.
Tell everyone, if they have notlistened to your previous shows
, who you are.
What's your background.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So they know me as Jermaine Galloway.
Well, they know me as Tall Copsat Stop.
But Jermaine Galloway, I was inlaw enforcement for 18 years.
Once I left law enforcement,because I do so many trainings,
I travel and train across thecountry as a national speaker on
specifically on drug trends.
That's my expertise.
Everything associated withdrugs, alcohol, which obviously
is a drug too, at any possibleangle or direction.
(00:51):
That's what I, that's what Itrain on.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Such needed in today's world.
Okay, today I want to focus onalcohol and marijuana and how
that's been so normalized in theworld.
Can you, can you speak intothat?
And I love how you, how you putin there alcohol as a drug too,
because I don't think a lot ofpeople think that.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well, yeah, because a lot of people are social
drinkers, some people are heavydrinkers, some people are
addicted to alcohol.
But alcohol is a drug.
It is a mind altering substance.
It is addictive.
I mean, I drink alcohol so I'mnot sitting here, you know,
throwing rocks at people who do,but I drank alcohol.
But with that in mind, people doneed to understand that.
You know, some of us who drinksocially.
There's others who don't drinksocially.
(01:30):
There's others.
It is their drug of choice.
Marijuana's not their drug ofchoice.
Heroin's not their drug ofchoice.
It is alcohol.
It's what they crave daily.
It's what they do behind thewheel of a car, it's what they
do at their child's basketballgame, all of it.
So we, we have alcohol issuesin this country.
It is your mostly widely abuseddrug.
Um, you know, sometimes peoplesay, well, it's vaping or meth
(01:51):
or heroin.
No, none of those numbers areeven close to alcohol.
More people use alcohol thanany of those drugs.
And you could probably startcombining some of those and get
equal numbers to alcohol.
So when you talk alcohol, it isyour.
Some people call it anentourage drug or some people
will call it the ketchup of thedrug world.
It goes with everything andthere's a way to use that
responsibly, and there's somepeople who don't use it
(02:11):
responsibly and then, of course,when you talk kids, it really
significantly impacts them.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, let's talk about that for a minute, because
as adults it has beennormalized and kind of like very
acceptable and we don't talkabout perimeters to keep
ourselves healthy as adults.
But that has now, I think,trickled down to kids, where
they just think alcohol is not abig deal at all.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, and it's because anything that's
normalized we'll start with thisanything that is normalized
that you see every day, youdon't think is a big deal.
So you know, unfortunately backin the day in communities we
would see people who werenodding out from, let's say,
heroin.
They had just shot up heroin.
They're standing on thesidewalk.
You know, you hear the newsmedia make the reference to
zombies.
I don't really like that term,but the news media makes that
(02:55):
reference to zombies on thesidewalk or people standing up,
falling asleep.
And back in the day we used todial 911 when we saw that there
used to be a quick police andEMS response.
Now most people guess what theydo Keep driving, they keep
walking by, they walk in theirStarbucks.
They don't even dial 911.
Why is that?
Because it's become kind ofnormalized.
You go to a larger city, you seethat on the daily and anything
(03:18):
good or bad that you see on thedaily becomes normalized and
people don't really respond toit after a while anymore.
So what's happening withalcohol is many kids see their
parents drinking, their auntsand uncles drinking, every
social event drinking.
A mom has it, you know, in theArctic mug, in the center
console and kids go.
Well, what's the big deal?
And furthermore, you have someparents who provide alcohol to
(03:41):
their kids too.
And in some cases, those sameparents can't understand why
their kids are fightingdepression and going around and
around with depression and goingaround and around with suicidal
thoughts and going around andaround with anxiety, but yet
they allow them to drink and yousit back and you go.
You do realize alcohol is adepressant.
Right, you're fightingdepression and depressants and
that's not a good thing.
(04:01):
But some parents don't makethat correlation either.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah, I think many of us miss that.
Can you dive into that a littlebit more about the association
between alcohol being adepressant and causing
depression and mental healthissues with kids and with adults
?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Sure, look at it like this.
Let's start out with this firstAll drugs make you feel good.
It doesn't matter what the drugis.
Some people will say, well,this drug has a medicinal value.
I could make an argument for amedicinal value of every drug,
from cocaine to meth to heroin.
You can make an argument of amedicinal value to it.
That medicinal value might be10%, it might be 30%, but you
(04:40):
can make an argument to that.
And then also, all drugs feelgood.
So when people are going througha tough day, tough series of
events, breaking up with thespouse whether that's high
school spouse, whether that is,you know, married 30 year spouse
, tough time at the job, stressduring high school sports,
whatever it is you're doing,drugs are going to make you feel
(05:01):
better.
The problem with that is notthe temporary relief, the
long-term lack of relief and thelong-term dependence and the
issues that tie into that, andthat's the bigger piece of this.
So, in other words, you are astudent, you're suffering from
depression, you don't feel good,you drank alcohol.
Yes, you will feel better inthe interim.
(05:22):
You will feel better for thenext two hours because, guess
what, you're going to veg out.
You're not going to feel allthese things, your limbs are
going to feel heavy, you'regoing to feel like you're
nodding off going to sleep.
The question is, how do youfeel four hours later?
How do you feel that night?
How do you feel the nextmorning?
How do you feel the next threedays?
And that is where the issue.
So then what happens?
You've taught yourself yourselfthat, well, the only way I feel
good is drink alcohol.
So you go back and drink morealcohol and then you just
(05:45):
continue the cycle to where nowyou become dependent on it.
Now you're dependent on it, andnow, even when you were having
a good day, it ain't so goodbecause you need that alcohol
fix to keep it a good day.
And now you're getting into theworld of addiction.
So what's happening is you haveindividuals that look at these
drugs and just say what's thebig deal?
But they're actually going downthe highway of addiction and
(06:07):
not even realizing it.
Because I don't think mostpeople want to be addicts.
I'm actually very, veryconfident that most people do
not want to be addicts, thateven people who are addicted to
name the drug of choice fromheroin and alcohol do not want
to be an addict.
I don't think that they startedusing saying.
I want to end up here.
I I don't think that theystarted using saying.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I want to end up here .
I think they ended up therebecause of their using man.
That's such a word right thereabout the coping mechanism that
we use that it makes us feelgood for the next two hours, and
then how do we feel the nextday?
And also what we're teachingourselves to cope how to cope
with problems, how to lookproblems in the face and deal
with it.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Exactly, and one of the mistakes we can make as
parents is always running thesubstances for things to feel
better.
So you know your child can'tsleep.
We're going straight tomelatonin and I'm not sitting
here saying there's not amedicinal value to all this
stuff.
I'm not saying that.
What I am talking about is someof the issues that I see and
some of the issues that we'rehaving right.
So we run to melatonin, we runto ibuprofen, we run to
(07:05):
everything instead of going.
Well, could you have a massiveheadache because you were out in
Texas heat and you drank sixsoda pops today and ate cake and
that was your diet today.
Could that be a reason that youhave a really bad headache?
So maybe we need to adjust yourdiet.
I'm not saying 14 year old,don't drink a couple of sodas,
(07:30):
you're 14.
I get it, but maybe don't drinksix of them and sit playing
video games and sit outside inTexas heat and then eat junk
food all day.
Maybe we should look atadjusting some other things
first before we run to medicine.
One of the things I explain topeople is you know, we have a
lot of kids on ADHD meds andother meds, right.
But then I look at the parentsand the parents say, well, you
know they won't listen to me, Igo.
Well, what do they do duringthe day?
Are they in sports?
No Activities, no.
What about after school stuff?
No, playing with friends no.
(07:50):
What do they do?
They play video games all day.
So wait, you're telling me thatyour child is struggling with
ADHD, but your child doesn't eatwell, doesn't sleep well, plays
video games all day.
Maybe if we make some lifestylechanges, would that maybe impact
some of that.
So I mean, I'm not saying thatthat child doesn't need ADHD
meds also, but maybe let's startwith the lifestyle changes
(08:11):
first, or adjustments, becausekids are kids, right, kids are
going to play video games.
I get that stuff, but make somelifestyle adjustments first and
then go to that.
And I think sometimes we arejust so quick that something
goes wrong medicine, somethinggoes wrong medicine, something
goes wrong medicine, somethinggoes wrong medicine.
Believe me, everyone wholistens to this, including
myself, takes medicines.
I am not anti-medicine, I'm notanti-Western medicine, I'm not
(08:35):
anti any of that.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
All I believe is we should maybe be looking at some
other options first.
For some individuals, I mean,it boils down to we want a quick
fix and we want a bandaid, butwe don't want to have to do any
hard work or adjustments.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Correct, a hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
We don't want to do the workthat we call parenting sometimes
, so we don't want to do theparenting stuff, which is
discipline, follow up, payingattention.
It's easier to go here, go toyour room, play video games all
day, stay out of my hair becauseI got to work and then when you
come back, well, okay, take amedicine for this.
You can't sleep, not becauseyou've been up for three
straight days playing videogames, you can't sleep because
(09:10):
you've been up for threestraight days playing video
games.
So here's your melatonin atfour o'clock for all.
So the numbers I'm seeing,absolutely not.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I think we have a lot more people on medications that
don't need it.
For sure, the numbers areskyrocketing.
Okay, so we talked we'retalking a lot about alcohol.
I want to talk about marijuanaand the and the um normalization
of that, because that isanother thing, especially with
teenagers, like it's no big deal.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, and well and think about this.
On this one I don't totallyblame the teens.
I actually blame the adults,because when we legalize a drug,
guess what?
The 17 year old can't vote.
The 16 year old can't vote.
So we're sitting back goinghang on, let's legalize it, Make
it more available, havedispensaries where we just have
(10:08):
Daryl and Daryl who are runningit, selling to anybody that
don't even have good checking,ID, standards or anything.
They're selling a drug that westill the forms of cannabis we
see today we don't completelyknow everything about.
But then we're going to look atthe teens and go y'all are a
problem.
It doesn't work like that.
You know I'm surprised theteens don't look at us and go I
didn't vote this in.
You did so understanding.
You know half the states in thecountry where we've legalized
(10:30):
weed.
But then we turn around andtell the teens don't use it.
Their first question to us asadults should be well, why do
you legalize it?
Then, If we're not?
So many arguments they couldthrow right back at us with that
, and some in some cases theyare, for the decisions that we
are making they're not making,them we're making.
(10:51):
So ultimately, what's happenedto normalization is we as adults
are putting cannabis more onour streets.
We're making it more availableto our teens.
And guess what?
Lo and behold, our teens areusing it.
Surprise, surprise.
Who would have ever thought?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
So what are the dangers of using it?
If we start having thisconversation with our teenagers
and they are like, well, it'slegal.
And we say, well, it probablyshouldn't be because of this,
this and this.
What are those reasons?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Let's start.
Yeah, let's start out with this.
There are negative side effectsto every drug.
If anyone tells you that thisdrug is perfectly safe,
including a doctor, no drug isperfectly safe.
And doctors that and I thinkmany times because I'll hear
from you know attendees, classattendees who say dr tolm is
perfectly safe and they gotaddicted to it.
And I think sometimes thedoctors are just looking like
this is safe compared to theother stuff you might be doing.
Right, that's kind of the way.
I don't know, but that's justwhat I get a feel doctors know.
(11:38):
So many drugs are probablylooking at this going man.
Compared to everything else outthere, this is is pretty safe,
but no drug.
That's what we have to startwith.
You want cannabis?
You want alcohol?
No drug is safe for the masses.
No drug is completely safe.
Every drug has side effects.
That is our baseline people.
That's where we start, withthat in mind.
Well, marijuana, cannabis has along history of being tied to
(12:00):
early onset of schizophrenia,increased schizophrenia,
depression, cannabis inducedpsychosis, I mean.
And what the scary part is arethose are linked to cannabis
with leaf and low THC.
We're not even talking theconcentrated form.
That's five times strongertoday.
So, in other words, we havenegative side effects associated
(12:22):
with less, say, a Blackberryphone, but everyone's using
smartphones today.
But our data goes all the wayback to the basic phone.
So the flip phone really wouldbe a better equivalent, or those
old brick phones that would bethe better equivalent, but
everyone's using smartphonestoday.
So what do you think the datathe 20-year data is going to say
?
When cannabis is, however manytimes more potent and coming in
a tar form and people are vapingit?
(12:42):
What do you think the data isgoing to say when cannabis is,
however many times more potentand coming in a tar form and
people are vaping it?
What do you think the data isgoing to say when that comes out
?
And one of the things I tell myclasses is I think the data is
already coming out.
I think we're already seeing it.
So we don't have the numbers toback all of it, but I think
we're already seeing it.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Well, I think too.
You can just see if you try toget anyone into an addiction
facility or rehab.
It's almost impossible to getpeople the help they need.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
They're full.
How about that?
Huh?
So when we make drugs moreavailable, more people get
addicted.
But then those people need helpand they look at me and go why
was it so easy for me to getaddicted and so hard for me to
find help?
One of the top things kids arein treatment for now this might
change a little bit is cannabis.
Now, when I say it might changea little bit, is cannabis Now
when I say it might change alittle bit is vaping.
Vaping those numbers are goingto exceed anything we've ever,
(13:29):
ever, ever seen with drug use inkids because of how young
they're starting and the highlevel of addiction of vapes.
So vaping is going to shiftthat a little bit.
But when you talk a harderquote, unquote drug, it's going
to be your cannabis products andthat's not ever going to slow
down.
Because, if anything, I'm notseeing any states going.
We're making sanctions harder.
I'm seeing states loosensanctions, which means or loosen
(13:52):
policy or loosen laws, whichmeans more people are going to
do it.
And let me finish on this note.
Here's what I mean by thatWhenever you make a drug, these
are two key points that I tellall my classes you have to
always remember, never forgetWhenever you make a drug more
available, it lowers the price.
When you lower the price, youprice kids into the market.
An example I give people is whyis cocaine not popular with
(14:15):
students?
Why is cocaine not popular inhigh schools?
Are you telling me plenty ofhigh school kids would not want
to use cocaine?
I disagree.
I think some would want to usecocaine.
Why don't they then?
It's not easy to get as easy toget and it's not cheap, it's
expensive.
Those are your two reasons youdon't see cocaine in high
schools.
You change those dynamics.
You lower the prices and youopen cocaine dispensaries in
(14:36):
Missouri, texas, new Jersey.
You're going to see cocaineimmediately in your school
system.
So people need to understandthat there's main factors that
play into all this.
Because one of the things I'llask parents is I'll say parents,
I want you to rattle off inyour head the drugs that you
believe are popular or that yourkids tell you are popular in
your community, and then I givethem about 30 seconds.
(14:57):
Then I say are any of thosedrugs you just rattled off in
your head hard to find or any ofthem expensive?
Because you know that theparents just thought in their
head cannabis, vapes, alcohol,pills, maybe mushrooms, stuff
like that, and I say, are any ofthose hard to find and are any
of those expensive?
And they shake their head no,and I go.
That's why they're popular withyour kids.
It's simple concepts.
It truly is.
We don't have to, you know,break down the science with this
(15:20):
.
It is simple concepts of whycertain drugs end up in kids'
hands.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Laws have consequences and it does become
normalized in a society.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Absolutely it does, and we are living that right now
.
And if you think thatnormalization doesn't matter,
then sit back and ask yourselfwhy are the depression rates up?
Why are suicide numbers so high?
Why are all these things goingon?
Then Because you know, somepeople will say, well, I think
(15:49):
we should legalize drugs becauseless people will use it.
And I kind of I tell them we'rein a 10 year case study already
.
Guys, you realize the firststate to legalize was about 11
years ago.
And name a state that all of asudden has made you know the
quote unquote drug war sanctionsharder or stronger.
Name a state that says we'resending more people to prison
for drugs.
Name a state that says we'rearresting more people.
Name the state or city that'sdoing that.
No one's doing that.
(16:10):
We're loosening everythingacross the board.
How does addiction look to youon your streets right now?
Look like it's getting betterout there.
We're loosening everything.
So when people sit back and say, well, I think we could do this
, I and say, well, I think wecould do this, I said we're
already doing it, we are alreadydoing it.
And does it look better to youout there?
It does not.
No one thinks the drug worldlooks better.
Not one person does so.
(16:33):
Understand that.
I'm not saying we should bethrowing people in prison,
because I know that does notwork either, but just loosening
sanctions.
Lack of policy, lack of lawsthat clearly doesn't work either
.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Well, and like you said, I mean once that has been
loosened, and then it's just soreadily available for kids, it
trickles down and then we getirritated at our teens for it,
and it is literally not theirfault.
It is everything that has beenmodeled by the adults and what
we've allowed.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
It is.
I mean, guys, we're seeingvaping in second grade now.
We never saw drug use in secondgrade.
We never saw drug use in thirdgrade.
We never saw drug use in fourthgrade.
We maybe saw a little bit ofalcohol in fifth and sixth, and
I mean a little bit, but wenever saw drug use at those age
ranges.
Why are we seeing vaping insecond grade?
Because a vape pen costs fourbucks to 50, but it costs four
(17:16):
bucks.
It tastes like strawberries andit's sold in every store, on
every block.
Okay, that well, you know whatI mean Every corner store.
That's why you are seeing it.
If they, if a vape pen startedat let's say, we taxed them and
they started at $50, you're notseeing a second grader with a
$50 device.
You're not seeing kids bringingup to school anymore.
You know why.
They don't want a $50 device toget taken by the teacher.
(17:37):
They're going to leave thatthing at home.
So understand, there's somesimple things we could be doing
that we're not even doing that.
If anything, we're going theother way.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Yeah, and I liked what you said too Earlier in the
podcast.
You said and we've got Daryland Daryl running these shops
and they're not carting orcaring, they're not following
the law to make sure kids aren'tgetting these products, they
just want to make money.
They're in a business, theywant customers.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
For profit and public health do not equal.
You're going to get one or theother, you're not going to get
both.
So if you're for profit, that'snever good for public health.
If you're good for publichealth, it probably is not super
good for for profit.
They do not meet.
So you're going to have to pickone or the other.
And vapes are clearly terriblefor public health but they're
for profit.
So that and you know, we tendto not close industries, we tend
(18:26):
to not ban entire industries,we tend to kind of try to
regulate them or adjust them,but we tend to not ban them.
So I'm not seeing the vapeworld getting banned.
I do predict, uh, us doingsomething with flavored vapes.
I do see that coming at somepoint, because I don't believe
our vape issues are going toadjust until we do so.
I do believe that coming atsome point, because I don't
believe our vape issues aregoing to adjust until we do so.
(18:46):
I do believe that coming, butwe're not there yet.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Well, and I'm I'm glad that you also mentioned,
you know, the, the younger agesthat you're seeing.
Same thing exact is happeningwith us over here at Next Talk
with you know nude photos, themore normal it becomes.
I used to.
When I first started it was amiddle school and high school
issue.
Now I got elementary kids doingit because it's become so
(19:10):
normalized and they'redesensitized to seeing naked
people on a screen.
You know, and it's the sameconcept with this normalization
of alcohol and marijuana.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, and we're seeing all of it on TV and
there's actually overlapping onthat too.
Sex, drugs and alcohol right,we remember growing up sex,
drugs and rock and roll.
I think we take away the rockand roll piece now, but sex,
drugs and alcohol all thosethings travel together.
You know, if you look right now, what are they using to sell
alcohol?
Sex.
And it's not just females,males and females, it's both.
I mean, they're using sex tosell that.
(19:45):
So it is a main topic.
And again our kids are seeingit, because before, where our
parents could have hid some ofthat from us, now we all have
smartphones and social media, sothe hiding it from kids does
not exist anymore.
They are seeing everything.
But again we are the adults,which means my, you know, 12
year old doesn't make policy, Imake policy, which means if that
policy is out there, it's notbecause they made it, it's
(20:07):
because we made it and we'remaking bad policy.
Then we're upset with the endresult, with our children and
the impact on their brains.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Well, we're not fighting and standing up and
being an advocate from theworldly perspective and we're
not being a model at home, likeyou said.
We're running to drugs foreverything, to fix everything,
even like legal medicines.
We're just running to that fora bandaid fix.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah, and we, and we do need to stand up and, just
like you said, we do need tostand up and say some people ask
me, what can you do?
I go.
You need to stand up and saysomething because guess what?
The good part is, these guysare all for profit.
So if someone's for profit andyou say I'm not buying that
product from you anymore, theywill adjust their tactics
because they're for profit.
So the good part about anyonewho's for profit is they're very
(20:49):
predictable about what they'redoing and how they do it and
they're predictable about whatthey'll listen to.
So you know, if you live in anarea with a million people and
you're one of two people to gosay something complain they're
going to say get out of my store, I don't care.
If you live in an area of amillion people and it's on the
news and 30,000 people complain,they're going to adjust their
tactics because that's a lot ofmoney to lose and they don't
want to lose that, especiallywhen there's other competition.
(21:10):
But we're not really sayinganything.
You know the old term like.
It's almost like being an old.
You know sport coach it is.
You know boys will be.
Boys is not, is what it is sowe can't say that anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Absolutely, and and you've kind of painted a picture
here of how normalized it isand and why it's dangerous.
What can we do?
Like what can we do?
I know we got to be a model.
I know we got to speak up whenwe can.
What are some practical things,practical conversations we can
have with our children aboutthese issues.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Well, first, what can we do is be a policy.
You know, reach out to yourpolicymakers.
And I'm not saying about a ban.
I think people are prettyresistant to bans.
Most people are pretty pro.
You know, economy, business.
So I think if you start with aban, that might be a little
counterproductive.
But altering where you sell,age of sell, flavor of sell
(22:07):
things like that.
Also, having frequentconversations with your kids,
not a conversation once everysix months, but frequent
conversations, ongoingconversations with your kids.
That's another part of it Also.
You got to do that.
You got to have the frequent,constant conversations with your
kids.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
What if you're a parent and you're struggling
with alcohol or you'restruggling with marijuana?
Use be honest with your kid.
Talk to them about it Like whatdo you suggest?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Well, guess what Number one your child already
knows you are, even though youthink you're hiding it from guys
, they're not stupid.
Those kids are smarter than ushalf the time.
So I do not underestimate ourchildren at all.
I give them actually highlevels of credit for their level
of intelligence, even theydon't always show it, but we
don't either, right?
So have those conversationsstill about why they don't want
to be where you are and how yougot there and why it doesn't
(22:59):
make you happy how dependent youare on these things.
Cause, yeah, there are parentswho are addicts.
There are parents who areaddicted to substances and you,
as that parent, should know evenbetter than anyone else of why
they shouldn't be using it.
You should be the advocate ofwhy they shouldn't be, because
you know what it's causing foryou and your life.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Well, I know for me, you know, addiction one runs in
my family and there are thereare family members who have
struggled with it, and that Ihave not shied away from talking
about that with my kids and notshielding them from that, and I
think that's been a goodconversation starter.
But but the things that you'velaid out here too, I think, are
also great ways to talk to yourkids about this.
(23:37):
Like parents, I am going tosuggest to you, once you listen
to this podcast, let your teenlisten to this podcast and talk
to them about what tall cop issaying here, cause I think it's
invaluable to create some gooddialogue in your home.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, and that's it.
Listen to this podcast.
Talk about it before, talkabout it after.
This is just a springboard foryour conversation.
This is not the conversation.
This is a springboard for theconversation, and use it as that
.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Okay, I have a couple more questions for you.
So say you're a parent outthere and you found out your kid
is drinking.
You know marijuana use.
You're finding that there'ssomething going on that they're
sneaking.
What should we do?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
So some parents say should I call police?
Should I do this?
Should I do that?
You need to, as a parent,address it.
Do not look at it as small.
The earlier we can address theissue, the better we can be.
The sooner we can address theissue, the better we can be.
Look at it as serious.
Look at treatment options.
I know financially everybodycan't do that.
I get there's some logisticalstuff.
(24:42):
But look at all your optionsand look at them right at the
beginning.
Get on it right at thebeginning and get on it swiftly.
And if there's punishment orsanctions taking away phone,
taking away car, taking awayprivileges do it early and then
you can.
You can kind of release thosesanctions later.
But don't just wait and say nobig deal, kids will be kids,
boys will be boys way and say nobig deal, kids will be kids,
(25:04):
boys will be boys, girls will begirls.
And then let the issues getmuch larger, because it's a lot
harder to bring in some issueswhen they're really big.
And I'll tell you this peoplesuffering from addiction, in the
time they're going throughwithdrawals, they do not care
about sanctions.
They do not care aboutconsequences Later.
They do, but not during thatmoment, and so you don't want to
get to that moment.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
They do but not during that moment, and so you
don't want to get to that moment.
So oftentimes, you know, whenwe try to take a stand and say
you know this is not okay.
I found this, I'm worried aboutyou, they will minimize it and
blow it up.
Everybody's doing it, everybodydoes this.
How do we know when to reallykind of have an intervention
where we're like we're gettingyour, you help, this is far
(25:45):
bigger than you Like.
How do we know that line?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I know every kid is different, but that was the
first thing I was going to say.
Every kid is different.
The line is going to bedifferent for different kids.
But change in behavior justgive you an idea.
Change in behavior or wherebehavior um acts, friends,
instances, lack of instances,lack of one to play sports, lack
of one to have certain friendsare based on substances.
(26:08):
So when your kid's behavior isbased on the video game, like,
you'll have parents who say Itook the video game away and you
know he punched his dad, hethrew things.
Well, that, right there, that'scalled addiction.
Right, there's video gameaddiction.
Or sex addiction, there's drugaddiction.
That's called addiction.
You are well past the pointthat that should be happening.
You know.
Sure, should a kid get upset,yeah, if you take, you know, my
(26:30):
candy bar and Skittles away fromme, I'm going to go.
I really wanted those right.
But then you move on and go, ohwell, I'll get some Skittles
next week.
If you take it away and you'refeeling like you need to punch
people and act out and do that,that's called addiction, which
(26:51):
means that video game shouldhave been taken away a long time
ago and you probably need tokeep it away for a while until
things settle in your house, nota week, not a couple of days, a
while because you have someonewho's dependent on something.
So that's one of the big toolsto look at when you know your
child stops vaping.
There's the initial withdrawalsfrom lack of eating
irritability.
That's normal, should beexpected, because it's
withdrawals.
But now you're a few weeks inand you're still seeing some
weird behaviors.
(27:11):
Now you're in the world ofaddiction and you're going to
need to address that.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Any other tips for parents walking through this on
how to get help?
Is AA who they should contact?
Where do we start addictionrecovery in our area?
Like what?
Because that is another thingthat I have found helping
parents and trying to get themthe help for their kids or
themselves is we have a crisison our hands with the addiction
(27:39):
facilities and the addictiontreatment for for drug and
alcohol.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, so starting local, you can, you know,
depending on where you live.
I'm sure we have some people inhere who are from rural America
.
You can call your localhospitals, your local clinics,
anything but just Google, searchthe city you live in, treatment
providers or the county youlive in.
Look them up, look up thereviews.
There's a lot of informationout there.
There's several, but, like yousaid, it's hard to get people in
(28:03):
some of them.
And even for some of the drugs,like if you say it's vaping,
they might say we don't dealwith that, we're only dealing
with this, this and this.
We don't have youth counselors,we want to deal with this, this
and this.
So in some cases you might haveto make the drive and you might
have to travel a little bit,but that's where you want to
start.
You ask your school counselor.
A lot of times they haveconnections with those, so
(28:26):
you're just going to have toshop around a little bit.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Well and I think that's the thing that I'm seeing
is so difficult because you'rein a crisis and your kid is in
denial, that they have a problem, but they're acting out just
like you said getting physicalhitting, walls punching because
they're going throughwithdrawals.
You're so worried about themand in the middle of it you have
to be logical and find theright treatment center and then
(28:50):
look at insurance plans andthat's a crisis.
That's a major crisis for afamily, and so what I
immediately go to is we have todo better at prevention so that
we never get to that point.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Right exactly, so that we never get to that point.
Right exactly.
Prevention, education are thefirst steps before you get to
enforcement.
Enforcement's that final step.
So, and a lot of people, wedon't want that there because
that's criminal records and allthis other stuff Prevention and
education are the first steps.
Always remember that.
Parents, it's your job to bethe parents, no one else's.
(29:24):
It's yours to be the parents,no one else's, it's yours.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
And and that's why listen to this podcast start the
conversations early with yourkids.
Make sure that just when you'repopping ibuprofen, that is
still sending a message to yourkid If you're popping that every
day for pain.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Exactly, and that's it.
And the bigger thing is okay,what's the pain, what's the
level of pain?
And you know, with some of thethese parents, I, okay, what's
the pain, what's the level ofpain?
And you know, with some of thethese parents, I tell them I go,
you're 40 years old and this iswhere you're at.
Theoretically, you should haveanother 45 years.
You're halfway there.
What do you think it's going tolook like?
Right, you need to address thisnow.
This isn't going to get better.
You need to address it now.
(29:58):
And you know, when you hearpeople who have a surgery and
they go well, I took pain pillsfor two weeks.
Okay, you have a surgery, someof you might need pain pills,
you might need opioids, butafter surgery you're supposed to
be in some level of discomfort.
So if it is bearable enough,then don't.
Don't take the pills.
If you can get around it, thendon't.
If you need to, okay, Iunderstand there's a need for
that, but then you should makethat a couple of day instance
(30:21):
and start weaning yourself offit.
You're supposed to beuncomfortable after a surgery.
So after those things, startweaning yourself off of it.
If you can bear it, do it.
Because when you talk to thosewho've fallen into the world of
addiction.
You don't want to end up there.
You don't want to end up there,and I know a lot of people end
up in addiction.
They don't seek it, they end upthere.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Well, and I would also say I would add to that
that's such a great example.
I remember when my kids hadtheir wisdom teeth cut out and
the doctor gave them painmedicine and they said if you
need something stronger, we cando it, but we don't want you to
have it and that was a wholeconversation with my kids as
they were recovering from theirsurgeries is I don't want you to
(31:02):
be miserable but at the sametime, we don't need to just take
stuff to numb ourselves Like ifwe don't need it.
That's not a good move for ourhealth.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
You don't take it just to take it.
You take it because youabsolutely need it and can't
function without it, right?
But you know, what I basicallyjust said is also what you see
with addiction too.
You take it because you need itand can't function without it.
So you got to kind of look atthat to.
You know, double sided swordthere, so you got to look at,
you got to look at both of them.
So you definitely want to payattention to that.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Wow, that's a good point.
That's a good point.
Okay, anything else for ourlisteners?
We got a lot of parentslistening.
Anything else about alcohol andmarijuana, the normalization of
it and why it's so dangerous?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I think I covered why it's so dangerous.
I'll tell you guys this I putout a lot of resources and I'm
always updating.
This.
Stuff is always changing.
This stuff is all of it.
I mean, we just talked alcoholand marijuana today, but we
could talk about 30 drugs.
It's always changing.
It's always evolving.
So pay attention, track with thestuff I put out there.
Go to my YouTube page, sign upfor that.
(32:03):
It's free.
So I'm not telling you this tomake money, it's free.
Go to my website.
Tall cop says stop, and thenyou can sign up for my email
list.
It'll be a pop-up and then youjust put your information in
there, hit submit and it'll signyou up for my email list and
put in the comment section thatyou heard me on this podcast.
It's kind of cool to know wherepeople come from.
I have over 82,000 people on myemail blast list.
It goes out once a month.
(32:24):
One just went out three daysago, so that's the January one.
The February one will go outhere in a few weeks and those
are some of my ways to keep youinformed.
Of course, facebook, twitter,linkedin X I guess it's called
Facebook X, linkedin, but youguys can track with me there and
get ahold of me there.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Well, thanks for all the work you're doing out there.
I appreciate your wisdom, yourexperience.
Oh my gosh, just you're on thefront lines of helping us manage
this stuff as more products andnew products come on the market
for these kids that are beingmarketed to them.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
You are welcome.
You are welcome.
Thank you, guys for having meand guys, of course, if you have
questions, hit me up.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Thanks so much, Jermaine.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Thank you have a good one.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Next me up.
Thanks so much, jermaine.
Thank you have a good one.
Next Talk is a 501c3 nonprofitkeeping kids safe online.
To support our work, make adonation at nexttalkorg.
Next Talk resources are notintended to replace the advice
of a trained healthcare or legalprofessional, or to diagnose,
treat or otherwise render expertadvice regarding any type of
medical, psychological, legal,financial or other problem.
You are advised to consult aqualified expert for your
personal treatment plan.
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast.
We are a nonprofit passionateabout keeping kids safe online.
We're learning together how tonavigate tech, culture and faith
with our kids.
We have TalkHop back with ustoday, Jermaine Galloway.
Jermaine, thank you for beinghere.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Thank you guys for having me back.
It's a good thing when theybring you back.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Absolutely.
You've become a great resourcefor our parents.
Tell everyone, if they have notlistened to your previous shows
, who you are.
What's your background.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So they know me as Jermaine Galloway.
Well, they know me as Tall Copsat Stop.
But Jermaine Galloway, I was inlaw enforcement for 18 years.
Once I left law enforcement,because I do so many trainings,
I travel and train across thecountry as a national speaker on
specifically on drug trends.
That's my expertise.
Everything associated withdrugs, alcohol, which obviously
is a drug too, at any possibleangle or direction.
(00:51):
That's what I, that's what Itrain on.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Such needed in today's world.
Okay, today I want to focus onalcohol and marijuana and how
that's been so normalized in theworld.
Can you, can you speak intothat?
And I love how you, how you putin there alcohol as a drug too,
because I don't think a lot ofpeople think that.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well, yeah, because a lot of people are social
drinkers, some people are heavydrinkers, some people are
addicted to alcohol.
But alcohol is a drug.
It is a mind altering substance.
It is addictive.
I mean, I drink alcohol so I'mnot sitting here, you know,
throwing rocks at people who do,but I drank alcohol.
But with that in mind, people doneed to understand that.
You know, some of us who drinksocially.
There's others who don't drinksocially.
(01:30):
There's others.
It is their drug of choice.
Marijuana's not their drug ofchoice.
Heroin's not their drug ofchoice.
It is alcohol.
It's what they crave daily.
It's what they do behind thewheel of a car, it's what they
do at their child's basketballgame, all of it.
So we, we have alcohol issuesin this country.
It is your mostly widely abuseddrug.
Um, you know, sometimes peoplesay, well, it's vaping or meth
(01:51):
or heroin.
No, none of those numbers areeven close to alcohol.
More people use alcohol thanany of those drugs.
And you could probably startcombining some of those and get
equal numbers to alcohol.
So when you talk alcohol, it isyour.
Some people call it anentourage drug or some people
will call it the ketchup of thedrug world.
It goes with everything andthere's a way to use that
responsibly, and there's somepeople who don't use it
(02:11):
responsibly and then, of course,when you talk kids, it really
significantly impacts them.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, let's talk about that for a minute, because
as adults it has beennormalized and kind of like very
acceptable and we don't talkabout perimeters to keep
ourselves healthy as adults.
But that has now, I think,trickled down to kids, where
they just think alcohol is not abig deal at all.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, and it's because anything that's
normalized we'll start with thisanything that is normalized
that you see every day, youdon't think is a big deal.
So you know, unfortunately backin the day in communities we
would see people who werenodding out from, let's say,
heroin.
They had just shot up heroin.
They're standing on thesidewalk.
You know, you hear the newsmedia make the reference to
zombies.
I don't really like that term,but the news media makes that
(02:55):
reference to zombies on thesidewalk or people standing up,
falling asleep.
And back in the day we used todial 911 when we saw that there
used to be a quick police andEMS response.
Now most people guess what theydo Keep driving, they keep
walking by, they walk in theirStarbucks.
They don't even dial 911.
Why is that?
Because it's become kind ofnormalized.
You go to a larger city, you seethat on the daily and anything
(03:18):
good or bad that you see on thedaily becomes normalized and
people don't really respond toit after a while anymore.
So what's happening withalcohol is many kids see their
parents drinking, their auntsand uncles drinking, every
social event drinking.
A mom has it, you know, in theArctic mug, in the center
console and kids go.
Well, what's the big deal?
And furthermore, you have someparents who provide alcohol to
(03:41):
their kids too.
And in some cases, those sameparents can't understand why
their kids are fightingdepression and going around and
around with depression and goingaround and around with suicidal
thoughts and going around andaround with anxiety, but yet
they allow them to drink and yousit back and you go.
You do realize alcohol is adepressant.
Right, you're fightingdepression and depressants and
that's not a good thing.
(04:01):
But some parents don't makethat correlation either.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah, I think many of us miss that.
Can you dive into that a littlebit more about the association
between alcohol being adepressant and causing
depression and mental healthissues with kids and with adults
?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Sure, look at it like this.
Let's start out with this firstAll drugs make you feel good.
It doesn't matter what the drugis.
Some people will say, well,this drug has a medicinal value.
I could make an argument for amedicinal value of every drug,
from cocaine to meth to heroin.
You can make an argument of amedicinal value to it.
That medicinal value might be10%, it might be 30%, but you
(04:40):
can make an argument to that.
And then also, all drugs feelgood.
So when people are going througha tough day, tough series of
events, breaking up with thespouse whether that's high
school spouse, whether that is,you know, married 30 year spouse
, tough time at the job, stressduring high school sports,
whatever it is you're doing,drugs are going to make you feel
(05:01):
better.
The problem with that is notthe temporary relief, the
long-term lack of relief and thelong-term dependence and the
issues that tie into that, andthat's the bigger piece of this.
So, in other words, you are astudent, you're suffering from
depression, you don't feel good,you drank alcohol.
Yes, you will feel better inthe interim.
(05:22):
You will feel better for thenext two hours because, guess
what, you're going to veg out.
You're not going to feel allthese things, your limbs are
going to feel heavy, you'regoing to feel like you're
nodding off going to sleep.
The question is, how do youfeel four hours later?
How do you feel that night?
How do you feel the nextmorning?
How do you feel the next threedays?
And that is where the issue.
So then what happens?
You've taught yourself yourselfthat, well, the only way I feel
good is drink alcohol.
So you go back and drink morealcohol and then you just
(05:45):
continue the cycle to where nowyou become dependent on it.
Now you're dependent on it, andnow, even when you were having
a good day, it ain't so goodbecause you need that alcohol
fix to keep it a good day.
And now you're getting into theworld of addiction.
So what's happening is you haveindividuals that look at these
drugs and just say what's thebig deal?
But they're actually going downthe highway of addiction and
(06:07):
not even realizing it.
Because I don't think mostpeople want to be addicts.
I'm actually very, veryconfident that most people do
not want to be addicts, thateven people who are addicted to
name the drug of choice fromheroin and alcohol do not want
to be an addict.
I don't think that they startedusing saying.
I want to end up here.
I I don't think that theystarted using saying.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I want to end up here .
I think they ended up therebecause of their using man.
That's such a word right thereabout the coping mechanism that
we use that it makes us feelgood for the next two hours, and
then how do we feel the nextday?
And also what we're teachingourselves to cope how to cope
with problems, how to lookproblems in the face and deal
with it.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Exactly, and one of the mistakes we can make as
parents is always running thesubstances for things to feel
better.
So you know your child can'tsleep.
We're going straight tomelatonin and I'm not sitting
here saying there's not amedicinal value to all this
stuff.
I'm not saying that.
What I am talking about is someof the issues that I see and
some of the issues that we'rehaving right.
So we run to melatonin, we runto ibuprofen, we run to
(07:05):
everything instead of going.
Well, could you have a massiveheadache because you were out in
Texas heat and you drank sixsoda pops today and ate cake and
that was your diet today.
Could that be a reason that youhave a really bad headache?
So maybe we need to adjust yourdiet.
I'm not saying 14 year old,don't drink a couple of sodas,
(07:30):
you're 14.
I get it, but maybe don't drinksix of them and sit playing
video games and sit outside inTexas heat and then eat junk
food all day.
Maybe we should look atadjusting some other things
first before we run to medicine.
One of the things I explain topeople is you know, we have a
lot of kids on ADHD meds andother meds, right.
But then I look at the parentsand the parents say, well, you
know they won't listen to me, Igo.
Well, what do they do duringthe day?
Are they in sports?
No Activities, no.
What about after school stuff?
No, playing with friends no.
(07:50):
What do they do?
They play video games all day.
So wait, you're telling me thatyour child is struggling with
ADHD, but your child doesn't eatwell, doesn't sleep well, plays
video games all day.
Maybe if we make some lifestylechanges, would that maybe impact
some of that.
So I mean, I'm not saying thatthat child doesn't need ADHD
meds also, but maybe let's startwith the lifestyle changes
(08:11):
first, or adjustments, becausekids are kids, right, kids are
going to play video games.
I get that stuff, but make somelifestyle adjustments first and
then go to that.
And I think sometimes we arejust so quick that something
goes wrong medicine, somethinggoes wrong medicine, something
goes wrong medicine, somethinggoes wrong medicine.
Believe me, everyone wholistens to this, including
myself, takes medicines.
I am not anti-medicine, I'm notanti-Western medicine, I'm not
(08:35):
anti any of that.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
All I believe is we should maybe be looking at some
other options first.
For some individuals, I mean,it boils down to we want a quick
fix and we want a bandaid, butwe don't want to have to do any
hard work or adjustments.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Correct, a hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
We don't want to do the workthat we call parenting sometimes
, so we don't want to do theparenting stuff, which is
discipline, follow up, payingattention.
It's easier to go here, go toyour room, play video games all
day, stay out of my hair becauseI got to work and then when you
come back, well, okay, take amedicine for this.
You can't sleep, not becauseyou've been up for three
straight days playing videogames, you can't sleep because
(09:10):
you've been up for threestraight days playing video
games.
So here's your melatonin atfour o'clock for all.
So the numbers I'm seeing,absolutely not.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I think we have a lot more people on medications that
don't need it.
For sure, the numbers areskyrocketing.
Okay, so we talked we'retalking a lot about alcohol.
I want to talk about marijuanaand the and the um normalization
of that, because that isanother thing, especially with
teenagers, like it's no big deal.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, and well and think about this.
On this one I don't totallyblame the teens.
I actually blame the adults,because when we legalize a drug,
guess what?
The 17 year old can't vote.
The 16 year old can't vote.
So we're sitting back goinghang on, let's legalize it, Make
it more available, havedispensaries where we just have
(10:08):
Daryl and Daryl who are runningit, selling to anybody that
don't even have good checking,ID, standards or anything.
They're selling a drug that westill the forms of cannabis we
see today we don't completelyknow everything about.
But then we're going to look atthe teens and go y'all are a
problem.
It doesn't work like that.
You know I'm surprised theteens don't look at us and go I
didn't vote this in.
You did so understanding.
You know half the states in thecountry where we've legalized
(10:30):
weed.
But then we turn around andtell the teens don't use it.
Their first question to us asadults should be well, why do
you legalize it?
Then, If we're not?
So many arguments they couldthrow right back at us with that
, and some in some cases theyare, for the decisions that we
are making they're not making,them we're making.
(10:51):
So ultimately, what's happenedto normalization is we as adults
are putting cannabis more onour streets.
We're making it more availableto our teens.
And guess what?
Lo and behold, our teens areusing it.
Surprise, surprise.
Who would have ever thought?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
So what are the dangers of using it?
If we start having thisconversation with our teenagers
and they are like, well, it'slegal.
And we say, well, it probablyshouldn't be because of this,
this and this.
What are those reasons?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Let's start.
Yeah, let's start out with this.
There are negative side effectsto every drug.
If anyone tells you that thisdrug is perfectly safe,
including a doctor, no drug isperfectly safe.
And doctors that and I thinkmany times because I'll hear
from you know attendees, classattendees who say dr tolm is
perfectly safe and they gotaddicted to it.
And I think sometimes thedoctors are just looking like
this is safe compared to theother stuff you might be doing.
Right, that's kind of the way.
I don't know, but that's justwhat I get a feel doctors know.
(11:38):
So many drugs are probablylooking at this going man.
Compared to everything else outthere, this is is pretty safe,
but no drug.
That's what we have to startwith.
You want cannabis?
You want alcohol?
No drug is safe for the masses.
No drug is completely safe.
Every drug has side effects.
That is our baseline people.
That's where we start, withthat in mind.
Well, marijuana, cannabis has along history of being tied to
(12:00):
early onset of schizophrenia,increased schizophrenia,
depression, cannabis inducedpsychosis, I mean.
And what the scary part is arethose are linked to cannabis
with leaf and low THC.
We're not even talking theconcentrated form.
That's five times strongertoday.
So, in other words, we havenegative side effects associated
(12:22):
with less, say, a Blackberryphone, but everyone's using
smartphones today.
But our data goes all the wayback to the basic phone.
So the flip phone really wouldbe a better equivalent, or those
old brick phones that would bethe better equivalent, but
everyone's using smartphonestoday.
So what do you think the datathe 20-year data is going to say
?
When cannabis is, however manytimes more potent and coming in
a tar form and people are vapingit?
(12:42):
What do you think the data isgoing to say when cannabis is,
however many times more potentand coming in a tar form and
people are vaping it?
What do you think the data isgoing to say when that comes out
?
And one of the things I tell myclasses is I think the data is
already coming out.
I think we're already seeing it.
So we don't have the numbers toback all of it, but I think
we're already seeing it.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Well, I think too.
You can just see if you try toget anyone into an addiction
facility or rehab.
It's almost impossible to getpeople the help they need.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
They're full.
How about that?
Huh?
So when we make drugs moreavailable, more people get
addicted.
But then those people need helpand they look at me and go why
was it so easy for me to getaddicted and so hard for me to
find help?
One of the top things kids arein treatment for now this might
change a little bit is cannabis.
Now, when I say it might changea little bit, is cannabis Now
when I say it might change alittle bit is vaping.
Vaping those numbers are goingto exceed anything we've ever,
(13:29):
ever, ever seen with drug use inkids because of how young
they're starting and the highlevel of addiction of vapes.
So vaping is going to shiftthat a little bit.
But when you talk a harderquote, unquote drug, it's going
to be your cannabis products andthat's not ever going to slow
down.
Because, if anything, I'm notseeing any states going.
We're making sanctions harder.
I'm seeing states loosensanctions, which means or loosen
(13:52):
policy or loosen laws, whichmeans more people are going to
do it.
And let me finish on this note.
Here's what I mean by thatWhenever you make a drug, these
are two key points that I tellall my classes you have to
always remember, never forgetWhenever you make a drug more
available, it lowers the price.
When you lower the price, youprice kids into the market.
An example I give people is whyis cocaine not popular with
(14:15):
students?
Why is cocaine not popular inhigh schools?
Are you telling me plenty ofhigh school kids would not want
to use cocaine?
I disagree.
I think some would want to usecocaine.
Why don't they then?
It's not easy to get as easy toget and it's not cheap, it's
expensive.
Those are your two reasons youdon't see cocaine in high
schools.
You change those dynamics.
You lower the prices and youopen cocaine dispensaries in
(14:36):
Missouri, texas, new Jersey.
You're going to see cocaineimmediately in your school
system.
So people need to understandthat there's main factors that
play into all this.
Because one of the things I'llask parents is I'll say parents,
I want you to rattle off inyour head the drugs that you
believe are popular or that yourkids tell you are popular in
your community, and then I givethem about 30 seconds.
(14:57):
Then I say are any of thosedrugs you just rattled off in
your head hard to find or any ofthem expensive?
Because you know that theparents just thought in their
head cannabis, vapes, alcohol,pills, maybe mushrooms, stuff
like that, and I say, are any ofthose hard to find and are any
of those expensive?
And they shake their head no,and I go.
That's why they're popular withyour kids.
It's simple concepts.
It truly is.
We don't have to, you know,break down the science with this
(15:20):
.
It is simple concepts of whycertain drugs end up in kids'
hands.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Laws have consequences and it does become
normalized in a society.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Absolutely it does, and we are living that right now
.
And if you think thatnormalization doesn't matter,
then sit back and ask yourselfwhy are the depression rates up?
Why are suicide numbers so high?
Why are all these things goingon?
Then Because you know, somepeople will say, well, I think
(15:49):
we should legalize drugs becauseless people will use it.
And I kind of I tell them we'rein a 10 year case study already
.
Guys, you realize the firststate to legalize was about 11
years ago.
And name a state that all of asudden has made you know the
quote unquote drug war sanctionsharder or stronger.
Name a state that says we'resending more people to prison
for drugs.
Name a state that says we'rearresting more people.
Name the state or city that'sdoing that.
No one's doing that.
(16:10):
We're loosening everythingacross the board.
How does addiction look to youon your streets right now?
Look like it's getting betterout there.
We're loosening everything.
So when people sit back and say, well, I think we could do this
, I and say, well, I think wecould do this, I said we're
already doing it, we are alreadydoing it.
And does it look better to youout there?
It does not.
No one thinks the drug worldlooks better.
Not one person does so.
(16:33):
Understand that.
I'm not saying we should bethrowing people in prison,
because I know that does notwork either, but just loosening
sanctions.
Lack of policy, lack of lawsthat clearly doesn't work either
.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Well, and like you said, I mean once that has been
loosened, and then it's just soreadily available for kids, it
trickles down and then we getirritated at our teens for it,
and it is literally not theirfault.
It is everything that has beenmodeled by the adults and what
we've allowed.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
It is.
I mean, guys, we're seeingvaping in second grade now.
We never saw drug use in secondgrade.
We never saw drug use in thirdgrade.
We never saw drug use in fourthgrade.
We maybe saw a little bit ofalcohol in fifth and sixth, and
I mean a little bit, but wenever saw drug use at those age
ranges.
Why are we seeing vaping insecond grade?
Because a vape pen costs fourbucks to 50, but it costs four
(17:16):
bucks.
It tastes like strawberries andit's sold in every store, on
every block.
Okay, that well, you know whatI mean Every corner store.
That's why you are seeing it.
If they, if a vape pen startedat let's say, we taxed them and
they started at $50, you're notseeing a second grader with a
$50 device.
You're not seeing kids bringingup to school anymore.
You know why.
They don't want a $50 device toget taken by the teacher.
(17:37):
They're going to leave thatthing at home.
So understand, there's somesimple things we could be doing
that we're not even doing that.
If anything, we're going theother way.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Yeah, and I liked what you said too Earlier in the
podcast.
You said and we've got Daryland Daryl running these shops
and they're not carting orcaring, they're not following
the law to make sure kids aren'tgetting these products, they
just want to make money.
They're in a business, theywant customers.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
For profit and public health do not equal.
You're going to get one or theother, you're not going to get
both.
So if you're for profit, that'snever good for public health.
If you're good for publichealth, it probably is not super
good for for profit.
They do not meet.
So you're going to have to pickone or the other.
And vapes are clearly terriblefor public health but they're
for profit.
So that and you know, we tendto not close industries, we tend
(18:26):
to not ban entire industries,we tend to kind of try to
regulate them or adjust them,but we tend to not ban them.
So I'm not seeing the vapeworld getting banned.
I do predict, uh, us doingsomething with flavored vapes.
I do see that coming at somepoint, because I don't believe
our vape issues are going toadjust until we do so.
I do believe that coming atsome point, because I don't
believe our vape issues aregoing to adjust until we do so.
(18:46):
I do believe that coming, butwe're not there yet.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Well, and I'm I'm glad that you also mentioned,
you know, the, the younger agesthat you're seeing.
Same thing exact is happeningwith us over here at Next Talk
with you know nude photos, themore normal it becomes.
I used to.
When I first started it was amiddle school and high school
issue.
Now I got elementary kids doingit because it's become so
(19:10):
normalized and they'redesensitized to seeing naked
people on a screen.
You know, and it's the sameconcept with this normalization
of alcohol and marijuana.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, and we're seeing all of it on TV and
there's actually overlapping onthat too.
Sex, drugs and alcohol right,we remember growing up sex,
drugs and rock and roll.
I think we take away the rockand roll piece now, but sex,
drugs and alcohol all thosethings travel together.
You know, if you look right now, what are they using to sell
alcohol?
Sex.
And it's not just females,males and females, it's both.
I mean, they're using sex tosell that.
(19:45):
So it is a main topic.
And again our kids are seeingit, because before, where our
parents could have hid some ofthat from us, now we all have
smartphones and social media, sothe hiding it from kids does
not exist anymore.
They are seeing everything.
But again we are the adults,which means my, you know, 12
year old doesn't make policy, Imake policy, which means if that
policy is out there, it's notbecause they made it, it's
(20:07):
because we made it and we'remaking bad policy.
Then we're upset with the endresult, with our children and
the impact on their brains.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Well, we're not fighting and standing up and
being an advocate from theworldly perspective and we're
not being a model at home, likeyou said.
We're running to drugs foreverything, to fix everything,
even like legal medicines.
We're just running to that fora bandaid fix.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah, and we, and we do need to stand up and, just
like you said, we do need tostand up and say some people ask
me, what can you do?
I go.
You need to stand up and saysomething because guess what?
The good part is, these guysare all for profit.
So if someone's for profit andyou say I'm not buying that
product from you anymore, theywill adjust their tactics
because they're for profit.
So the good part about anyonewho's for profit is they're very
(20:49):
predictable about what they'redoing and how they do it and
they're predictable about whatthey'll listen to.
So you know, if you live in anarea with a million people and
you're one of two people to gosay something complain they're
going to say get out of my store, I don't care.
If you live in an area of amillion people and it's on the
news and 30,000 people complain,they're going to adjust their
tactics because that's a lot ofmoney to lose and they don't
want to lose that, especiallywhen there's other competition.
(21:10):
But we're not really sayinganything.
You know the old term like.
It's almost like being an old.
You know sport coach it is.
You know boys will be.
Boys is not, is what it is sowe can't say that anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Absolutely, and and you've kind of painted a picture
here of how normalized it isand and why it's dangerous.
What can we do?
Like what can we do?
I know we got to be a model.
I know we got to speak up whenwe can.
What are some practical things,practical conversations we can
have with our children aboutthese issues.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Well, first, what can we do is be a policy.
You know, reach out to yourpolicymakers.
And I'm not saying about a ban.
I think people are prettyresistant to bans.
Most people are pretty pro.
You know, economy, business.
So I think if you start with aban, that might be a little
counterproductive.
But altering where you sell,age of sell, flavor of sell
(22:07):
things like that.
Also, having frequentconversations with your kids,
not a conversation once everysix months, but frequent
conversations, ongoingconversations with your kids.
That's another part of it Also.
You got to do that.
You got to have the frequent,constant conversations with your
kids.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
What if you're a parent and you're struggling
with alcohol or you'restruggling with marijuana?
Use be honest with your kid.
Talk to them about it Like whatdo you suggest?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Well, guess what Number one your child already
knows you are, even though youthink you're hiding it from guys
, they're not stupid.
Those kids are smarter than ushalf the time.
So I do not underestimate ourchildren at all.
I give them actually highlevels of credit for their level
of intelligence, even theydon't always show it, but we
don't either, right?
So have those conversationsstill about why they don't want
to be where you are and how yougot there and why it doesn't
(22:59):
make you happy how dependent youare on these things.
Cause, yeah, there are parentswho are addicts.
There are parents who areaddicted to substances and you,
as that parent, should know evenbetter than anyone else of why
they shouldn't be using it.
You should be the advocate ofwhy they shouldn't be, because
you know what it's causing foryou and your life.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Well, I know for me, you know, addiction one runs in
my family and there are thereare family members who have
struggled with it, and that Ihave not shied away from talking
about that with my kids and notshielding them from that, and I
think that's been a goodconversation starter.
But but the things that you'velaid out here too, I think, are
also great ways to talk to yourkids about this.
(23:37):
Like parents, I am going tosuggest to you, once you listen
to this podcast, let your teenlisten to this podcast and talk
to them about what tall cop issaying here, cause I think it's
invaluable to create some gooddialogue in your home.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, and that's it.
Listen to this podcast.
Talk about it before, talkabout it after.
This is just a springboard foryour conversation.
This is not the conversation.
This is a springboard for theconversation, and use it as that
.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Okay, I have a couple more questions for you.
So say you're a parent outthere and you found out your kid
is drinking.
You know marijuana use.
You're finding that there'ssomething going on that they're
sneaking.
What should we do?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
So some parents say should I call police?
Should I do this?
Should I do that?
You need to, as a parent,address it.
Do not look at it as small.
The earlier we can address theissue, the better we can be.
The sooner we can address theissue, the better we can be.
Look at it as serious.
Look at treatment options.
I know financially everybodycan't do that.
I get there's some logisticalstuff.
(24:42):
But look at all your optionsand look at them right at the
beginning.
Get on it right at thebeginning and get on it swiftly.
And if there's punishment orsanctions taking away phone,
taking away car, taking awayprivileges do it early and then
you can.
You can kind of release thosesanctions later.
But don't just wait and say nobig deal, kids will be kids,
boys will be boys way and say nobig deal, kids will be kids,
(25:04):
boys will be boys, girls will begirls.
And then let the issues getmuch larger, because it's a lot
harder to bring in some issueswhen they're really big.
And I'll tell you this peoplesuffering from addiction, in the
time they're going throughwithdrawals, they do not care
about sanctions.
They do not care aboutconsequences Later.
They do, but not during thatmoment, and so you don't want to
get to that moment.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
They do but not during that moment, and so you
don't want to get to that moment.
So oftentimes, you know, whenwe try to take a stand and say
you know this is not okay.
I found this, I'm worried aboutyou, they will minimize it and
blow it up.
Everybody's doing it, everybodydoes this.
How do we know when to reallykind of have an intervention
where we're like we're gettingyour, you help, this is far
(25:45):
bigger than you Like.
How do we know that line?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I know every kid is different, but that was the
first thing I was going to say.
Every kid is different.
The line is going to bedifferent for different kids.
But change in behavior justgive you an idea.
Change in behavior or wherebehavior um acts, friends,
instances, lack of instances,lack of one to play sports, lack
of one to have certain friendsare based on substances.
(26:08):
So when your kid's behavior isbased on the video game, like,
you'll have parents who say Itook the video game away and you
know he punched his dad, hethrew things.
Well, that, right there, that'scalled addiction.
Right, there's video gameaddiction.
Or sex addiction, there's drugaddiction.
That's called addiction.
You are well past the pointthat that should be happening.
You know.
Sure, should a kid get upset,yeah, if you take, you know, my
(26:30):
candy bar and Skittles away fromme, I'm going to go.
I really wanted those right.
But then you move on and go, ohwell, I'll get some Skittles
next week.
If you take it away and you'refeeling like you need to punch
people and act out and do that,that's called addiction, which
(26:51):
means that video game shouldhave been taken away a long time
ago and you probably need tokeep it away for a while until
things settle in your house, nota week, not a couple of days, a
while because you have someonewho's dependent on something.
So that's one of the big toolsto look at when you know your
child stops vaping.
There's the initial withdrawalsfrom lack of eating
irritability.
That's normal, should beexpected, because it's
withdrawals.
But now you're a few weeks inand you're still seeing some
weird behaviors.
(27:11):
Now you're in the world ofaddiction and you're going to
need to address that.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Any other tips for parents walking through this on
how to get help?
Is AA who they should contact?
Where do we start addictionrecovery in our area?
Like what?
Because that is another thingthat I have found helping
parents and trying to get themthe help for their kids or
themselves is we have a crisison our hands with the addiction
(27:39):
facilities and the addictiontreatment for for drug and
alcohol.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, so starting local, you can, you know,
depending on where you live.
I'm sure we have some people inhere who are from rural America
.
You can call your localhospitals, your local clinics,
anything but just Google, searchthe city you live in, treatment
providers or the county youlive in.
Look them up, look up thereviews.
There's a lot of informationout there.
There's several, but, like yousaid, it's hard to get people in
(28:03):
some of them.
And even for some of the drugs,like if you say it's vaping,
they might say we don't dealwith that, we're only dealing
with this, this and this.
We don't have youth counselors,we want to deal with this, this
and this.
So in some cases you might haveto make the drive and you might
have to travel a little bit,but that's where you want to
start.
You ask your school counselor.
A lot of times they haveconnections with those, so
(28:26):
you're just going to have toshop around a little bit.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Well and I think that's the thing that I'm seeing
is so difficult because you'rein a crisis and your kid is in
denial, that they have a problem, but they're acting out just
like you said getting physicalhitting, walls punching because
they're going throughwithdrawals.
You're so worried about themand in the middle of it you have
to be logical and find theright treatment center and then
(28:50):
look at insurance plans andthat's a crisis.
That's a major crisis for afamily, and so what I
immediately go to is we have todo better at prevention so that
we never get to that point.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Right exactly, so that we never get to that point.
Right exactly.
Prevention, education are thefirst steps before you get to
enforcement.
Enforcement's that final step.
So, and a lot of people, wedon't want that there because
that's criminal records and allthis other stuff Prevention and
education are the first steps.
Always remember that.
Parents, it's your job to bethe parents, no one else's.
(29:24):
It's yours to be the parents,no one else's, it's yours.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
And and that's why listen to this podcast start the
conversations early with yourkids.
Make sure that just when you'repopping ibuprofen, that is
still sending a message to yourkid If you're popping that every
day for pain.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Exactly, and that's it.
And the bigger thing is okay,what's the pain, what's the
level of pain?
And you know, with some of thethese parents, I, okay, what's
the pain, what's the level ofpain?
And you know, with some of thethese parents, I tell them I go,
you're 40 years old and this iswhere you're at.
Theoretically, you should haveanother 45 years.
You're halfway there.
What do you think it's going tolook like?
Right, you need to address thisnow.
This isn't going to get better.
You need to address it now.
(29:58):
And you know, when you hearpeople who have a surgery and
they go well, I took pain pillsfor two weeks.
Okay, you have a surgery, someof you might need pain pills,
you might need opioids, butafter surgery you're supposed to
be in some level of discomfort.
So if it is bearable enough,then don't.
Don't take the pills.
If you can get around it, thendon't.
If you need to, okay, Iunderstand there's a need for
that, but then you should makethat a couple of day instance
(30:21):
and start weaning yourself offit.
You're supposed to beuncomfortable after a surgery.
So after those things, startweaning yourself off of it.
If you can bear it, do it.
Because when you talk to thosewho've fallen into the world of
addiction.
You don't want to end up there.
You don't want to end up there,and I know a lot of people end
up in addiction.
They don't seek it, they end upthere.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Well, and I would also say I would add to that
that's such a great example.
I remember when my kids hadtheir wisdom teeth cut out and
the doctor gave them painmedicine and they said if you
need something stronger, we cando it, but we don't want you to
have it and that was a wholeconversation with my kids as
they were recovering from theirsurgeries is I don't want you to
(31:02):
be miserable but at the sametime, we don't need to just take
stuff to numb ourselves Like ifwe don't need it.
That's not a good move for ourhealth.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
You don't take it just to take it.
You take it because youabsolutely need it and can't
function without it, right?
But you know, what I basicallyjust said is also what you see
with addiction too.
You take it because you need itand can't function without it.
So you got to kind of look atthat to.
You know, double sided swordthere, so you got to look at,
you got to look at both of them.
So you definitely want to payattention to that.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Wow, that's a good point.
That's a good point.
Okay, anything else for ourlisteners?
We got a lot of parentslistening.
Anything else about alcohol andmarijuana, the normalization of
it and why it's so dangerous?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I think I covered why it's so dangerous.
I'll tell you guys this I putout a lot of resources and I'm
always updating.
This.
Stuff is always changing.
This stuff is all of it.
I mean, we just talked alcoholand marijuana today, but we
could talk about 30 drugs.
It's always changing.
It's always evolving.
So pay attention, track with thestuff I put out there.
Go to my YouTube page, sign upfor that.
(32:03):
It's free.
So I'm not telling you this tomake money, it's free.
Go to my website.
Tall cop says stop, and thenyou can sign up for my email
list.
It'll be a pop-up and then youjust put your information in
there, hit submit and it'll signyou up for my email list and
put in the comment section thatyou heard me on this podcast.
It's kind of cool to know wherepeople come from.
I have over 82,000 people on myemail blast list.
It goes out once a month.
(32:24):
One just went out three daysago, so that's the January one.
The February one will go outhere in a few weeks and those
are some of my ways to keep youinformed.
Of course, facebook, twitter,linkedin X I guess it's called
Facebook X, linkedin, but youguys can track with me there and
get ahold of me there.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Well, thanks for all the work you're doing out there.
I appreciate your wisdom, yourexperience.
Oh my gosh, just you're on thefront lines of helping us manage
this stuff as more products andnew products come on the market
for these kids that are beingmarketed to them.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
You are welcome.
You are welcome.
Thank you, guys for having meand guys, of course, if you have
questions, hit me up.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Thanks so much, Jermaine.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Thank you have a good one.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Next me up.
Thanks so much, jermaine.
Thank you have a good one.
Next Talk is a 501c3 nonprofitkeeping kids safe online.
To support our work, make adonation at nexttalkorg.
Next Talk resources are notintended to replace the advice
of a trained healthcare or legalprofessional, or to diagnose,
treat or otherwise render expertadvice regarding any type of
medical, psychological, legal,financial or other problem.
You are advised to consult aqualified expert for your
personal treatment plan.
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