January 13, 2025 • 39 mins
Mandy & her daughter recently spoke to a mother/daughter group about social media and online safety. At the end, a mom asked, “What would you tell your 9th grade self?” The reaction to the response is why we did this show! Moms, we recommend you watch first. If you are comfortable with the content we share, we encourage you to let your daughter watch. We pray you can use this show to create healthy conversations and strengthen your mother/daughter relationship.
KEEPING KIDS SAFE ONLINE
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast.
We are a nonprofit passionateabout keeping kids safe online.
We're learning together how tonavigate tech, culture and faith
with our kids.
You guys loved the last show wedid with my 20-year-old
daughter, so she's home fromcollege for another visit and
she graciously said she would doanother show with us.
(00:24):
Yeah, might as well.
Thanks for being here, hon.
If they didn't watch your showlast time, just tell us a little
bit about yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
So I am a graduate student at a university here in
Texas.
I'm studying counselingpsychology.
I actually just finished myfirst semester of grad school,
so that's exciting, but yeah, Imean that's really all I think
of you love coffee.
Yeah, you had one before this.
I feel like I can relate to alot of you moms out there.
(00:54):
Love my coffee.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Last night we were actually invited to speak to a
mother teen daughter group andwe talked about social media,
online dangers, boundaries toput in place that kind of stuff
around social media and keepingkids safe online.
But at the end of it, a mompopped up and had the best
(01:17):
question for her what would youtell your ninth grade self?
I?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
just said it gets better.
I didn't think that was a veryprofound answer, but apparently
it is because we're making apodcast about it.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I want you to expand though, because you did just
blurt out it gets better.
But then you kind of describedin detail and it was just so
profound, like seeing the teengirls, their shoulders were just
like almost relieved.
Like seeing the teen girls,their shoulders were just like
almost relieved, and I thought,okay, I want to dive a little
bit more into why we think thatmattered to them.
(01:50):
But before we get into that, Iwant you to kind of expand on
what you said.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah for sure.
So I mean, first thing thatpopped into my head was just it
gets better.
Because when I look at myselfnow, like my mental state and
also just like stress level andstress tolerance compared to my
middle school and high schoolself, it is so incredibly
different.
And especially where I am inlife now, like being a graduate
(02:14):
student, like I'm going to startseeing my counseling clients
when I go back to school, soobviously that's it's a huge
moment in my life, a hugetransition period.
And yet when I look back when Iwas like in my teenage years my
young teenage years um, thatwas insanely more stressful and
(02:37):
insanely more um, there's somuch more like emotional turmoil
and emotional weight on myshoulders that I just didn't
know how to deal with.
I think, especially today withsocial media and technology and
just like all the societalpressure that middle schoolers
and high schoolers face, it'sjust a completely different ball
(02:59):
game than like what you'veexperienced.
I remember like being a middleschooler in high school.
Are you telling me like I getit, like I was a teenager once,
but the thing is like you don'tget it because you didn't have
Instagram and Tik TOK and yourfriends weren't going viral on
Tik TOK and, um, obviously, youknow, there was like the
(03:21):
popularity contest.
There was the cheerleaders andthe jocks, but now you have like
the influencers, like there'sinfluencers that I went to
middle school with.
It's just a completelydifferent reality, truly.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I think this is so interesting what she's saying,
because she's right.
I used to say things like well,I was a teenager once, I
remember, and I quickly shiftedand stopped using that language
because I realized what adifferent world she was growing
up in.
But but I think we're stillfiguring out what that looks
like, and I think the purpose ofthis show is why I wanted to
(03:56):
dive into you know, what wouldyou say to your ninth grade self
is because one I want parentsto understand, like the
pressures teenagers are under,and then maybe we can also give
some practical things that thatwe did along the way to help
ease those extra stressors inyour life.
Yeah for sure.
(04:18):
So I want to kind of talkthrough some things and again
expand on this.
Give me some examples of howit's different today with
teenagers growing up than when Igrew up.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah, I mean.
The immediate thought thatcomes to my mind is social media
.
You see people blowing up allthe time, getting super famous,
and obviously there's a bit of acomparison aspect, but also
that is like a career path.
Now that's something thatpeople aspire to be is to be
(04:51):
viral on TikTok or Instagram orwhatever.
So that's a whole differentthing to navigate mentally.
When you were a kid, if youweren't invited to a party, you
probably wouldn't find out aboutit.
But nowadays, like you do findout about it and you have to
face it every day.
Um, it's different in collegenow, like, if I see on Instagram
, like I wasn't invited tosomething, it's like, oh well,
(05:14):
like I never see him anyways,like it's fine.
But in middle school and highschool, like you have to face
those people every single day.
You have to face the fact thatyou weren't invited to something
.
Every single day, you have toface the fact that you weren't
invited to something and,especially as a middle schooler
and high schooler, yourself-esteem is so fragile Like
it, it hurts, it hurts and theystart to think like what's wrong
with me?
Like why wasn't I invited?
(05:35):
What's better about them?
Um, so that's something to keepin mind for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Well and I just want to play devil's advocate here,
because you know some parentsmay be out there thinking well
then, I just won't let my kidhave social media.
But in my mind the pressure isstill there because they're
still I mean, if they don't havetheir own phone, they're going
to school but they're stillseeing it on a friend's phone,
or they're still being awarethat this is happening.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah for sure.
And there's even the stigma outof like if you don't have
social media, you're missing outon something else entirely.
Like there's a whole otherculture.
There's like micro trends thatare so specific to social media
that you're just notunderstanding.
Like maybe there's inside jokesor like certain like slang
words or language that you'renot understanding if you're not
(06:23):
involved on social media, sothat there's that whole other
aspect of like I don't know whatthey're talking about.
Like it must've been somethingthat was trending on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
Sometimes it's it's trending onTikTok or it's a viral reel on
Instagram and it's this onelittle saying and then
everybody's making a video aboutthat, but you don't know what
that is because you don't even.
You don't even have a phone,you're not even allowed to do
that, and so there's that.
I mean truly that.
I mean we say FOMO all the time, the fear of missing out, but
(06:51):
it truly is something that kidsstruggle with.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, and I think it's something that's definitely
radicalized and become a sourceof anxiety and depression.
Like we're seeing so much moreclinical examples of anxiety and
depression.
Like we're seeing so much moreclinical examples of anxiety and
depression in young childrenbecause of social media and that
comparison and fear of missingout aspect, but also just the
amount of time that kids arespending on social media in
(07:17):
their own little like virtualreality world and it's just so
different from what you grew upwith.
There's so many more spaces nowthat kids have to navigate,
especially at such a young age.
They don't know how to copewith anxiety and depression and
like these really big emotions.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Well, and it doesn't mean just because I'm saying
they're going to struggle, evenif they don't have social media,
that doesn't mean we give themsocial media or we say, okay, we
just give into it.
But but what are some likepractical things that that you
think parents can do to comealongside to ease some of this
stress?
Because one thing when we weretalking about was, you said, the
fear of being recorded, andthat's something we talk a lot
(07:59):
about at next talk.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
But if you can just explain to parents what you mean
by that, yeah, I mean, if I'mjust going to zoom out for a
second, I think embarrassment isa huge thing for like young
teenagers Like me specifically.
I am so easily embarrassed Ialways have been but like it was
really big when I was likemiddle school, high school, like
(08:22):
anything that I thought waseven remotely like going to draw
attention to me um justhumiliated me and um, I mean I
see that all the time, like whenI talk to middle schoolers and
high schoolers, like it's stilla very apparent thing and some
of that is like you know, that'sjust growing up, like that's
(08:44):
going to happen, and so part ofthe parent's response in that, I
think, is equipping them withways to zoom out and realize
like this isn't everything, anda parent can only do so much
because in the moment it reallydoes feel like it's everything.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Well, I think that's the challenge, because we don't
want to say this isn'teverything, because it feels
like everything, and we don'twant to be dismissive.
You don't want to invalidatethat, we don't want to.
Yeah, we don't want to bedismissive, and so they'll
recognize it eventually, like me.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Now I look back and I'm like, oh my gosh, like I was
so dramatic, like that did notmatter at all, but in the moment
it felt, it felt so personaland so so, like, deeply rooted
in my heart.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Well, I know one of the things that that I found
that worked too was making sure,because you're always scared of
being recorded at school andbeing made fun of, you know, you
getting put on a meme fallingin the hallway or whatever
whatever embarrassing momentthat you that you're worried
about.
One of the things that I foundwas if I could make sure that
(09:49):
home was the safe place and Imean, yeah, we would bust out
the phone and record funnythings, but there was always an
understanding that it wouldnever get posted without
permission.
And one of the big things thatI think about is when she had
her wisdom teeth cut out.
You know we of course videothat.
(10:12):
I think everybody does, but I, Ididn't post that anywhere and
you know it was a hey, can I?
And she was like absolutely not, because to her it was
embarrassing.
It wasn't embarrassing, yeah,but I think that is one way
instead of parents saying, oh,don't worry, you know, when you
get out of high school this isnot going to matter, because
that's kind of dismissive, andinstead do these practical
(10:33):
things that make home feel safe,like you have a refuge away
from all the recordings and awayfrom all the embarrassment.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Absolutely Parents.
Let me just say this you shouldnot be your kid's biggest bully
, and I think sometimes it feelslike that when, maybe you tell
mom about something reallyembarrassing that happens and
they go post it on Facebook.
Oh my gosh, like you're justmaking fun of your kid in front
of all their friends or in frontof like a bunch of people.
Maybe they don't even know, butlike I promise it's going to
(11:02):
get back around to them.
I will say I feel like a lot ofparents, a lot of moms
specifically, don't know this ordon't recognize this.
But, um, I know what you'regoing to say.
It's happened to me many atimes.
Um, you post something on yourpersonal Facebook, maybe a photo
that you don't think like it'sa little goofy, but you don't
think it's embarrassing, likeit's just a dumb little photo,
(11:24):
and when they're like firstgrade, or second grade, yeah.
Like flashbacks, like for theirbirthdays, and you're like, oh,
it's cute, like it doesn'tmatter.
Oh, it matters, because this iswhat's going to happen.
When their friends wantammunition on them or just want
to like poke fun at them, theywill find a way, creatively Even
(11:45):
if your account's private.
They will find a way to getinto your Facebook account,
screenshot those pictures ofyour child and blast them
everywhere, like broadcast thosephotos.
It has happened to me severaltimes and it was humiliating and
looking back, I'm like,whatever it was a picture of me
when I was like you know nine,like it's, it's okay.
But in the moment I was like,oh my gosh, mom, I can't believe
(12:07):
you did that.
I cannot believe you did thatand you know what that signals
to your kid.
I can't tell mom stuff.
I can't tell mom my privateinformation because it's going
to get broadcasted everywhereand everyone's going to make fun
of me for it and it makes themfeel like mom or dad.
They're not my safe placeanymore.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
So if you guys have heard me speak, one of the
things that I say at events is,if I could turn back the time,
and one thing that I would dodifferently it would be ask
permission to post earlier.
I started this when she was inmiddle school.
In sixth grade I started askingher permission for everything.
I wish I would have started wayearlier.
(12:46):
It was just.
It caught me by storm.
You know, we were learning thisdigital world and I would say
learn from my mistakes.
You know, don't do what I did,because it also just shows your
kid respect and it also teachesthem like consent.
You know, is it okay if I postthis of you and they have the
(13:06):
authority to give consent, yesor no?
And that can apply to so manyother conversations too, about
consent and standing up forthemselves and and that sort of
thing.
But but definitely respect thatboundary.
I will say most of the timewhen you're.
When your friends got picturesof you from when you were young,
it was done in fun, not truelike making fun of you, bullying
(13:30):
, not true bullying.
But I think we need to becareful with that because even
though it wasn't true bullying,I can't dismiss how it made her
feel and she didn't like it.
And so I think also as moms,I'm guilty of this.
I will just be like, oh my gosh, honey, that's your best friend
(13:51):
doing it.
They love you, they're notmaking fun of you, but it's
dismissing the way it makes herfeel.
By responding that way, it canhurt this relationship, and so
we just have to have our guardup that we're not dismissive of
your feelings, even if we thinkit's silly.
And I think sometimes too, moms, when they post something funny
(14:11):
like that, like making fun oftheir kids, I think moms just
want to.
I mean, I don't think it's donewithin the intention of being
mean, but I think what happensis other people chime in and
then they share stories abouttheir kids, and some kids may
not like that, and it willaffect the relationship and how
(14:33):
the kid can feel safe with theparent Absolutely, and so it's
just not worth it.
I always think in my mind, like,is it worth a like to hurt the
relationship that I've worked sohard to build?
And I think we need tocontinually ask ourselves that.
And so how we've combated thatis, I just ask permission now.
Even if it's a funny post,that's kind of making fun of
(14:54):
them, which I do sometimes, butI will ask your permission and
they'll be like oh yeah, Iremember Bubby recently had
stinky clothes in his locker andI was making fun of him, like
what in the world, boys, you'vegot to wash your clothes.
And I asked him if I could postit and he was like sure, but it
was kind of, you know, makingfun of the fact, and so I think
(15:15):
it just shows respect making funof the fact, and so I think it
just shows respect.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So something else that I think is really weighing
heavy on a lot of kids duringthis developmental period is
really just the amount ofstressors that they have on them
.
So, like for me in high school,like I had my extracurriculars
AP classes, dual credit classes,friend groups there's this
(15:40):
whole like weird, like mentalthing about how people are
perceiving you and like how youwant people to label you or
identify you.
I remember every day on thefirst day of school having just
overwhelming anxiety about wheream I going to sit at lunch,
like what friends do I have forthat lunch period?
(16:03):
Where are we going to sit?
Because it feels like itdetermines the course of your
entire high school career.
Like that sounds so dumb, andlike you're probably listening
to this like oh please, butseriously, like in high school,
middle school, like that's athing.
Like do you have friends to sitwith?
(16:23):
Are you going to look like aloner?
There's just all theseanxieties that I think as
parents like you have your ownstressors, like really like big
stressors.
Like how am I going to feed mykids?
How am I going to you know,like make enough money to get
through this week.
Like those.
Like big things, but for kidsthey have all these anxieties
that just feel really big tothem.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
I think one shift from when I was a kid was, I
don't, I mean, we didn't havethe AP, the dual credit.
You know, getting into collegewasn't as difficult.
I don't think in my generation,I mean, I didn't even know what
my rank was, and I rememberwhen you guys had high school,
that was a whole thing.
You know what's your rank, whatyou know that first time that
(17:06):
came out.
And so I do want to talk aboutexpectations a bit, because that
was difficult to figure out asa parent, because I didn't want
to raise an undisciplined, lazychild.
You know, of course we had tohave expectations of you guys,
but I also think we had to bevery careful not to push too
(17:28):
hard.
And so can you speak into that,because I think that could be
very helpful to parents on onwhat you perceive from your
ninth grade self, what helpedand what didn't help.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, well, I feel like me personally.
I feel like y'all always pushedme to do my best, um, but
sometimes my best just wasn'tgood enough and that was okay.
Like that was something yousaid to me.
It's like, oh my gosh, like Ididn't do well on that test.
Well, did you try your best?
Yeah, then you did good on thattest.
(18:02):
You know, it's like, did youstudy, did you put in the work?
And if you didn't get theresults you wanted, that's okay,
because you tried your best.
Um, I feel like that was thatwas good for me.
That was a really good thingthat y'all did.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
I do remember one time saying too you know, were
you on Instagram when you werestudying and that's why you did
bad?
Or did you actually study andyou still didn't, couldn't do it
?
You know, I think that's adifferent thing, but it's a
thought process that the kidsneed to think about, because if
you're just playing on yourphone, that's not doing your
best.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
And I wanted you to.
I wanted to hold you to that,but I wanted you to think about
it Like you tell me what did youdo during that study time?
Yeah, so when you're shiftingthe responsibility of the, your,
the child's performance, tolike their abilities, to like
how hard they worked, I feellike it.
It shifts the way they thinkabout themselves and their,
their identity and the worth oftheir abilities.
Because, say, I didn't do greaton a test and y'all were to say
like it's because you're notsmart, like obviously you
(19:05):
wouldn't say that.
But if, if I was like, did you?
Did you try your best?
And I'm like, yeah, I reallydid try my best.
And y'all were like just gottawork harder next time.
Well, that's teaching me.
My best.
Like isn't good enough.
No, my best like made me failthis, like I am not good enough
to pass this class or to getthis grade.
So when you're saying like youworked your hardest and that is
(19:29):
enough, like that is good, itshifts that mindset of thinking
like this is my fault, I didthis.
Like I'm not good enough.
It's taking away that label oflike I my fault, I did this,
like I'm not good enough.
It's taking away that, thatlabel of like I'm stupid, I'm
dumb, like I can't do this.
Yeah, I also saw a lot, um, likethe, the really high performing
students that you know theywould make a 92 and be in tears
(19:54):
in the bathroom and it's like,oh my gosh, like, please, like
it's okay, like a 92, likethat's phenomenal.
But to them, you know, theirparents at home are saying a 92,
why didn't you get a 100?
Like why wasn't it perfect?
You could have done better.
And so I think that's a reallybig thing for parents is like
when you set a goal, make sureyou're not adjusting it.
(20:16):
Like if you're telling your kidlike I won is.
Like when you set a goal, makesure you're not adjusting it.
Like if you're telling your kidlike I won't, like your goal is
all A's and they get allnineties.
Don't get mad at them for notgetting 95s.
You know, yeah, like they havemet the goal, celebrate that,
celebrate that.
Don't keep adjusting it to makethem do better.
No, that can be something downthe line Like all right, let's
(20:37):
talk.
Like, let's work, how can weget this even better next time?
That's like that improvement,but not adjusting it so they
feel their accomplishments.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I think we're guilty of that.
I think a lot of parents I meanme too are guilty of moving the
needle and that it makes youfeel like you can never be good
enough or you can never doenough, and that really can hurt
your, your um your, yourself-esteem, your mental health,
everything, and so I thinkthat's a really good word.
(21:06):
I also want to talk about thelabel.
We said you know you'd mentionedthe label of stupid or dumb or
you know whatever.
I think that's another thingthat parents can do to help
teenagers who are strugglingtoday too is just say to your
kid, like you don't have to haveall the labels figured out, you
don't have to have youridentity figured out, and that's
(21:29):
one thing that I I instilled inher was I would.
I would say the only label yougive yourself right now is child
of God, and you have years tofigure out your other labels.
You know, like I say, the onlylabel you give yourself right
now is child of God, and youhave years to figure out your
other labels.
You know, like I now have alabel of mom, of author, of
whatever, but, but you have allthose years.
Don't put pressure on yourselfwhen you feel, when in ninth
(21:51):
grade, to have it all figuredout, because I think the other
thing, too I would remind you ofis everybody feels kind of
weird in ninth grade.
Everybody feels weird abouttheir body, about their mental
health, about everything.
You're questioning everythingbecause you're going through
puberty and that's kind ofnormal.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, I think in your age there was like the pressure
to fit in a social group oflike the cheerleaders, the jocks
, the nerds, the whatever, likethat's very stereotypical and
like sure that still existstoday to a degree.
But now there's the addition ofsocial media and the identity
labels of like, like, what'syour aesthetic?
(22:32):
Are you preppy?
Are you Coquette?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Well, let me also ask you this Um, you know you went
through different clothingstages as a young girl.
Yeah, are you glad that youwere able to easily roll out of
those and give those away?
Cause I think that's a perfecttalking point with young people
today, as, like with youridentity, just give it a minute,
because you're going to change.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, I definitely found pressure on myself around
junior year of high school toput myself in a certain box,
label my style, my aesthetic assomething, and it ended up
becoming pretty damaging becausewhen I started to feel like, oh
, like I don't feel ascomfortable in this anymore, it
was like no, but this is myidentity, I have to stick to
this.
So, just reminding your kidslike you don't have to stick to
(23:23):
anything, like you can trythings out, like you can try out
the different clothes and thedifferent styles, like that's
what this time is for, so thatwhen you're in your adulthood
you're starting to realize thisis what I like, this is what I
want to sustain for my life.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Let's talk about clothing for a minute.
Sustain for my life.
Let's talk about clothing for aminute and just um, because I
do think too, sometimes clothingdoes equal an identity or a
label or something, and I thinksometimes parents freak out
about it and so can you speakinto that Like, just help us
figure out how to navigate that.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I would say, when you're doing that, you're
putting a label on your kidyourself, like you're the one
stressed out about oh my gosh,are they assuming a label?
Are they assuming an identity?
But by carrying that assumptionwith you, you're already like
putting a label on them.
Yeah, I would say in the middleschool, high school years, like
they're experimenting withdifferent styles and clothings
(24:19):
and they're trying to find whatthey're comfortable and
confident in.
And if they find something thatthey're confident in, don't
bash them for it or make fun ofthem for it.
Obviously, I feel like maybethere's a line.
There's always a line.
There's always a line wheremaybe it's a little too far.
But if it's something thatthey're confident in, that is so
(24:42):
rare for a teenager to feelconfident in their self and
their body and how they'reconfident in, that is so rare
for a teenager to feel confidentin their self and their body
and how they're presentingthemselves, just let them like
sit back, like let them, andthey'll look back later on and
maybe be like oh wow, that wasquite a fashion choice, like
that was.
I mean, I think that all thetime I'm like, oh my gosh, like
I wore some like interestingstuff back in the day.
Um, but it's something they'reable to look back on and be like
(25:03):
.
But you know what?
Like I was confident.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
I think too, you know you talk about letting a kid be
confident in what they want towear, and I think that's so, so
important for sure.
But I also think you know youmentioned a line and there is a
line sometimes, Um, and I thinkthat the early conversations
help create a foundation for youknowing what that line was a
(25:27):
little bit, because it's hard totalk about clothing and body
image when your kids are goingthrough puberty and going
through all of that, and so Iknow we don't think that that's
a five-year-old conversation,but it actually is, you know,
instilling truth in them abouthow beautiful they are and how
confident they should be, andthat kind of stuff at five years
(25:48):
old.
And I think that's reallyimportant too.
Um, to when, even when they getto this experimenting with
clothing, it's like they know aline in their mind.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
For sure.
Yeah, I think thosefoundational conversations we
had even though there were somethings I would, I would push
against at times, especiallywhen I was like a junior in high
school there was eventuallylike a line of like all right,
I'm not going that far, likethat is like the things I knew
from conversations we've hadabout like that isn't like
(26:21):
honoring my body or like thatisn't honoring God.
So those kinds of things whereI was like I wouldn't push that
far.
But maybe someone like if youhaven't had as much open
communication, like that's moredifficult to navigate because in
the time it just feels to theteen like like mom doesn't get
it or like she doesn't know whatit's like or why can't I just
(26:44):
express myself?
You know, if this is what Ifeel confident in, why can't I
just wear it?
Um, it's so.
It's a lot of those like earlyconversations leading up to it.
Um, you just want to be careful, like if you are trying to
navigate a conversation likethat, you're not coming into it
with judgment or shaming,because shame is never a
productive strategy to changesomeone's mind ever.
(27:06):
That goes for like anything.
Shame is just going to makethem feel like nasty and and in
their head about everything.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, I think too you have to be very careful
navigating the clothingsituation with your teenager.
I know for you you have superlong legs and so sometimes I
would say to you, I mean, I'mjealous, honestly, of the long,
thin legs.
But I would say to you it'sharder for you to wear a skirt
(27:38):
because it looks shorter on you.
And there's nothing that you'redoing wrong.
It's the fact that the the waythe skirt is made and with your
long legs it looks shorter thanwhat it is, and we would talk
about dress coding at school.
Like I don't want you to getembarrassed, I don't want you to
be asked, but but stillinstilling in you that you were
(27:59):
beautiful and it was not a bodyissue with you, I think is
really important as you, as younavigate this.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I think it was important when you were
navigating those conversationsabout like with my legs, like
wearing a skirt, it wasn't likeyou.
Wearing a skirt is like,shameful or you wearing a skirt
or girl go change that.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
That is too short, Like I would never just say that
you didn't want me to feel likescandalous or sexualized.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
It was just a conversation of like what might
the consequences of this be?
Like you are taller and likeyou might get dress coded for
that because you have more legsshowing you know.
So it was like how can youprotect yourself from something?
It wasn't so much like there'ssomething wrong with you and you
need to change this, it wasjust how can you protect
(28:46):
yourself.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, yeah.
And so I think, navigatingthose conversations parents,
when you do need to speak up,you feel like you need to speak
up because you, your kid, iscrossing the line with clothing
or whatever.
I think that's important thatyou do that, but pray about it
so that it's guided by the HolySpirit and we're not body
shaming or making our kid feelbad.
(29:07):
I think that's very, veryimportant and does a lot for the
relationship.
I think, more than anything, asparents, we just need to be a
safe place for you guys, to be asafe place for you guys to vent
, to cry, to question, to yell,sometimes in anger, like I'm
(29:28):
just frustrated.
I know sometimes you would justvent to me and I would go into
fix it mode and you would get somad at me and say, mom, I don't
want you to fix anything, Ijust need to vent to someone.
Don't do anything with thisinformation, just let me word
vomit on you my words, not yours.
But I think being that safeplace is so important.
So can you talk about that withparents today?
(29:50):
I mean, they, these teenagers,are just facing so much.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, I mean I would say teenagers are facing so much
judgment, they feel so judgedfrom so much external stimuli.
They feel so much pressure toact or be a certain way.
They want to have a refuge anda safe place in their parents
and the tricky thing is like ifthey don't find it in you,
(30:16):
they'll find it in someone else,someone who might be a bad
influence or could be a groomeronline.
And I don't mean this to belike a fear mongering, like
scare, you kind of thing.
You just want to be that safeplace for your kid, because they
are so easily influenced and soeasily drawn to things that are
more comfortable.
You want to be their safe place.
(30:37):
You want to be the place wherethey feel loved and not judged.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Well, and one of the things I learned too is along
the way, and maybe you can speakinto this a bit.
I feel like you guys really seefake a lot, like you see a kid
acting online a certain way andthen they go to school and
they're completely different.
You see that a lot.
It's like you can smell a ratwhen people are trying to act
(31:03):
one way online and be differentin person.
And I think for me as a mom,you have kind of kept me in
check.
Am I real at home and am I realwhen I'm posting online?
Because to me, thatauthenticity of you seeing me be
the same person helps build ourrelationship as well and it's a
(31:26):
good model for you.
And I haven't always been goodat that and you've called me out
on it.
When I'm not, when you're likemom, why would you post this?
You would never do this.
I mean you've you've called meout on a couple of things.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, for sure.
And again, it instills thatidea that, like I, can be real
and I can be genuine andauthentic with people and
there's something good andtrustworthy and honest about
that.
It's not something like yourtrue self, isn't something to be
shoved away and hidden underlayers of style and makeup and
popularity and Instagram posts.
It's something to be embracedand um and shown to others.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Yeah, Um, and I think I think you just guys see fake
all day.
And if parents can be real,have real conversations and and
have that genuineness at home,it means something.
Because you're limited on thatin your, in your circles.
Yeah Right, Even some of yourclosest friends sometimes are
different online than in person.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I think, more than anything.
I think this is almost tosummarize everything we've been
talking about today.
Your kids are just strugglingwith so much in their social
circles and online.
Like you want to be that placethat's different.
Like you want to be that refuge.
They don't want to come home tothe same exhaustion that
(32:46):
they're facing at school.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
And I would also say, parents, if you're, if you're
watching this and you're likeyou know, I think my kid's fine,
I don't think they're reallystruggling with anything.
I think I would challenge youon that.
And, uh, you know, one of thethings that I would say to my
kids is, if there's anythingthat you are struggling with
that you can't get out of yourmind, like maybe you're laying
(33:09):
down at night and something'slooping in your mind that is
stressing you out, like that'sthe thing I need you to tell me.
And that could be.
I mean, that could be somethinglike I don't like the way that
person is thinking of me andthat could be.
I mean, that could be somethinglike I don't like the way that
person is thinking of me.
Or I posted this four days agoand somebody responded this way
and now I'm stressed out aboutit.
(33:29):
Whatever it is that is keepingyour kid up at night, ask them,
say that is what I want you toshare with me, because you're
not made to do life alone.
Like I will carry this with you.
And I think if parents can dothat and then respond calmly and
logically and not overreactinto crazy parent mode, I think
(33:51):
that man, just real, genuinerelationship can happen between
parent and child.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
I mean really to loop back to the first thing I said
kids, it gets better.
That's something that'sdifficult for parents to say,
because they're going to be like, okay, mom, like it's different
for me.
So I don't know if that'snecessarily something you could
tell your kids, but I wouldencourage you parents as well
Like it gets better for you,like they'll hit their peaks and
(34:18):
they'll they'll beexperimenting with all these
things and you'll be like, oh mygosh, what's happening?
Like, are they going to turnout like this?
It'll be fine, it'll mellow out, like it's okay, you're trying
your best, um, and your best isgood enough.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Yeah, I would say I had a friend tell me trust what
you've taught.
And I've.
I've told myself that over andover again when you are going
through your, your weirdclothing phases and all of that
kind of stuff.
So trust what you've taught,yes, and then and then.
One other thing that I justwant to end on here that I think
is really important too, aswe're talking about helping
(34:53):
teens navigate, is I think it'sso important for parents, when
they do get it wrong, say theydo respond badly to the clothing
, they do body shame, they dosay something off the cuff that
adds to your stress and theyrealize it.
I think it's so, so importantto apologize and model that
(35:14):
humility for your kid.
Can you speak into that alittle bit?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yeah, I mean, I think it just so it shows so much
respect and trust.
Um, when a parent is able toget down on their kid's level
and apologize and it shows youknow, obviously there's an
automatic power imbalance with aparent and a kid and when
you're able to get to theirlevel and say, like I messed up,
I'm sorry, like I hurt yourfeelings and I didn't mean to,
(35:43):
but like I understand why I did,it means so much and it's so
validating when they're in suchthis, this huge world of
emotional turmoil.
Um, it just means so much andit builds so much connection
that they're able to say likewow, like mom is listening to me
and like she's trying to get it, like she can't fully
understand what I'm goingthrough, but she's trying.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
It's so different how you are growing up than how I
grew up, so we see thingsdifferently and I think too,
when we're discussing thosedifferences and sometimes I'm a
little overbearing in myopinions or whatever you know, a
lot of times the day will go byand then I'll come back and say
I'm so sorry, I monopolizedthat conversation.
You know, tell me more abouthow, why you feel that way,
(36:27):
because I just don't see it thatway.
But help me understand.
I think too, in just thosemoments, that has really helped
our relationship.
Um and again, it's thathumility that I.
I didn't get it right, Ioverreacted, I was emotional or
whatever, super opinionated, andI came off luxury instead of.
I want to listen and I want tohear your perspective.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, it's that, that humility to want again to
listen and to understand umgetting on their level.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
So many shifts that we've had over the years that
I've screwed up, and then, whenI would, when I would correct it
, I would see the difference itmade.
And so that's why I'm sopassionate about sharing with
you those little, those littletweaks that we made that such
made such a difference.
Okay, so any last words forparents who have teenagers, and
it's just a hard, difficult timeright now.
(37:18):
How can you support yourteenagers better?
Speaker 2 (37:20):
I would say trust the process, trust your kid, trust
that you've taught.
What was it?
Trust what you've taught.
Trust what you've taught.
Um, it's going to be like quitea ride, but it's all going to
work out in the end, Like I'm 20, I'm fine now.
We had our moments, though,where we're like, oh my gosh,
like is she going to be okay?
And I'm okay.
(37:41):
I'm living evidence that it'sall going to work out.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
It is cool.
It is cool to get on this sideof it and just she's an adult
Like it's so weird, she pays herown rent and her bills and I
don't have to check in on her.
I mean, it's just a really coolthing.
So you've got that waiting onthe other side.
But I would just encourage youreally keep trying to build the
(38:06):
relationship, because that isreally where it's at.
You're keeping them safe online, yes, but you're building a
relationship that's going tolast forever in your family.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Be that safe place for your kid.
Next Talk is a 501c3 nonprofitkeeping kids safe online.
To support our work, make adonation at nexttalkorg.
Next Talk resources are notintended to replace the advice
of a trained healthcare or legalprofessional, or to diagnose,
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You are advised to consult aqualified expert for your
personal treatment plan.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Our Next Talk podcast is in the top 2% of over 3.4
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But now we're also addingYouTube, so this is a whole new
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If you could like, subscribeand comment on these videos, it
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Welcome to the Next Talk podcast.
We are a nonprofit passionateabout keeping kids safe online.
We're learning together how tonavigate tech, culture and faith
with our kids.
You guys loved the last show wedid with my 20-year-old
daughter, so she's home fromcollege for another visit and
she graciously said she would doanother show with us.
(00:24):
Yeah, might as well.
Thanks for being here, hon.
If they didn't watch your showlast time, just tell us a little
bit about yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
So I am a graduate student at a university here in
Texas.
I'm studying counselingpsychology.
I actually just finished myfirst semester of grad school,
so that's exciting, but yeah, Imean that's really all I think
of you love coffee.
Yeah, you had one before this.
I feel like I can relate to alot of you moms out there.
(00:54):
Love my coffee.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Last night we were actually invited to speak to a
mother teen daughter group andwe talked about social media,
online dangers, boundaries toput in place that kind of stuff
around social media and keepingkids safe online.
But at the end of it, a mompopped up and had the best
(01:17):
question for her what would youtell your ninth grade self?
I?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
just said it gets better.
I didn't think that was a veryprofound answer, but apparently
it is because we're making apodcast about it.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I want you to expand though, because you did just
blurt out it gets better.
But then you kind of describedin detail and it was just so
profound, like seeing the teengirls, their shoulders were just
like almost relieved.
Like seeing the teen girls,their shoulders were just like
almost relieved, and I thought,okay, I want to dive a little
bit more into why we think thatmattered to them.
(01:50):
But before we get into that, Iwant you to kind of expand on
what you said.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah for sure.
So I mean, first thing thatpopped into my head was just it
gets better.
Because when I look at myselfnow, like my mental state and
also just like stress level andstress tolerance compared to my
middle school and high schoolself, it is so incredibly
different.
And especially where I am inlife now, like being a graduate
(02:14):
student, like I'm going to startseeing my counseling clients
when I go back to school, soobviously that's it's a huge
moment in my life, a hugetransition period.
And yet when I look back when Iwas like in my teenage years my
young teenage years um, thatwas insanely more stressful and
(02:37):
insanely more um, there's somuch more like emotional turmoil
and emotional weight on myshoulders that I just didn't
know how to deal with.
I think, especially today withsocial media and technology and
just like all the societalpressure that middle schoolers
and high schoolers face, it'sjust a completely different ball
(02:59):
game than like what you'veexperienced.
I remember like being a middleschooler in high school.
Are you telling me like I getit, like I was a teenager once,
but the thing is like you don'tget it because you didn't have
Instagram and Tik TOK and yourfriends weren't going viral on
Tik TOK and, um, obviously, youknow, there was like the
(03:21):
popularity contest.
There was the cheerleaders andthe jocks, but now you have like
the influencers, like there'sinfluencers that I went to
middle school with.
It's just a completelydifferent reality, truly.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I think this is so interesting what she's saying,
because she's right.
I used to say things like well,I was a teenager once, I
remember, and I quickly shiftedand stopped using that language
because I realized what adifferent world she was growing
up in.
But but I think we're stillfiguring out what that looks
like, and I think the purpose ofthis show is why I wanted to
(03:56):
dive into you know, what wouldyou say to your ninth grade self
is because one I want parentsto understand, like the
pressures teenagers are under,and then maybe we can also give
some practical things that thatwe did along the way to help
ease those extra stressors inyour life.
Yeah for sure.
(04:18):
So I want to kind of talkthrough some things and again
expand on this.
Give me some examples of howit's different today with
teenagers growing up than when Igrew up.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah, I mean.
The immediate thought thatcomes to my mind is social media
.
You see people blowing up allthe time, getting super famous,
and obviously there's a bit of acomparison aspect, but also
that is like a career path.
Now that's something thatpeople aspire to be is to be
(04:51):
viral on TikTok or Instagram orwhatever.
So that's a whole differentthing to navigate mentally.
When you were a kid, if youweren't invited to a party, you
probably wouldn't find out aboutit.
But nowadays, like you do findout about it and you have to
face it every day.
Um, it's different in collegenow, like, if I see on Instagram
, like I wasn't invited tosomething, it's like, oh well,
(05:14):
like I never see him anyways,like it's fine.
But in middle school and highschool, like you have to face
those people every single day.
You have to face the fact thatyou weren't invited to something
.
Every single day, you have toface the fact that you weren't
invited to something and,especially as a middle schooler
and high schooler, yourself-esteem is so fragile Like
it, it hurts, it hurts and theystart to think like what's wrong
with me?
Like why wasn't I invited?
(05:35):
What's better about them?
Um, so that's something to keepin mind for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Well and I just want to play devil's advocate here,
because you know some parentsmay be out there thinking well
then, I just won't let my kidhave social media.
But in my mind the pressure isstill there because they're
still I mean, if they don't havetheir own phone, they're going
to school but they're stillseeing it on a friend's phone,
or they're still being awarethat this is happening.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah for sure.
And there's even the stigma outof like if you don't have
social media, you're missing outon something else entirely.
Like there's a whole otherculture.
There's like micro trends thatare so specific to social media
that you're just notunderstanding.
Like maybe there's inside jokesor like certain like slang
words or language that you'renot understanding if you're not
(06:23):
involved on social media, sothat there's that whole other
aspect of like I don't know whatthey're talking about.
Like it must've been somethingthat was trending on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
Sometimes it's it's trending onTikTok or it's a viral reel on
Instagram and it's this onelittle saying and then
everybody's making a video aboutthat, but you don't know what
that is because you don't even.
You don't even have a phone,you're not even allowed to do
that, and so there's that.
I mean truly that.
I mean we say FOMO all the time, the fear of missing out, but
(06:51):
it truly is something that kidsstruggle with.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, and I think it's something that's definitely
radicalized and become a sourceof anxiety and depression.
Like we're seeing so much moreclinical examples of anxiety and
depression.
Like we're seeing so much moreclinical examples of anxiety and
depression in young childrenbecause of social media and that
comparison and fear of missingout aspect, but also just the
amount of time that kids arespending on social media in
(07:17):
their own little like virtualreality world and it's just so
different from what you grew upwith.
There's so many more spaces nowthat kids have to navigate,
especially at such a young age.
They don't know how to copewith anxiety and depression and
like these really big emotions.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Well, and it doesn't mean just because I'm saying
they're going to struggle, evenif they don't have social media,
that doesn't mean we give themsocial media or we say, okay, we
just give into it.
But but what are some likepractical things that that you
think parents can do to comealongside to ease some of this
stress?
Because one thing when we weretalking about was, you said, the
fear of being recorded, andthat's something we talk a lot
(07:59):
about at next talk.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
But if you can just explain to parents what you mean
by that, yeah, I mean, if I'mjust going to zoom out for a
second, I think embarrassment isa huge thing for like young
teenagers Like me specifically.
I am so easily embarrassed Ialways have been but like it was
really big when I was likemiddle school, high school, like
(08:22):
anything that I thought waseven remotely like going to draw
attention to me um justhumiliated me and um, I mean I
see that all the time, like whenI talk to middle schoolers and
high schoolers, like it's stilla very apparent thing and some
of that is like you know, that'sjust growing up, like that's
(08:44):
going to happen, and so part ofthe parent's response in that, I
think, is equipping them withways to zoom out and realize
like this isn't everything, anda parent can only do so much
because in the moment it reallydoes feel like it's everything.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Well, I think that's the challenge, because we don't
want to say this isn'teverything, because it feels
like everything, and we don'twant to be dismissive.
You don't want to invalidatethat, we don't want to.
Yeah, we don't want to bedismissive, and so they'll
recognize it eventually, like me.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Now I look back and I'm like, oh my gosh, like I was
so dramatic, like that did notmatter at all, but in the moment
it felt, it felt so personaland so so, like, deeply rooted
in my heart.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Well, I know one of the things that that I found
that worked too was making sure,because you're always scared of
being recorded at school andbeing made fun of, you know, you
getting put on a meme fallingin the hallway or whatever
whatever embarrassing momentthat you that you're worried
about.
One of the things that I foundwas if I could make sure that
(09:49):
home was the safe place and Imean, yeah, we would bust out
the phone and record funnythings, but there was always an
understanding that it wouldnever get posted without
permission.
And one of the big things thatI think about is when she had
her wisdom teeth cut out.
You know we of course videothat.
(10:12):
I think everybody does, but I, Ididn't post that anywhere and
you know it was a hey, can I?
And she was like absolutely not, because to her it was
embarrassing.
It wasn't embarrassing, yeah,but I think that is one way
instead of parents saying, oh,don't worry, you know, when you
get out of high school this isnot going to matter, because
that's kind of dismissive, andinstead do these practical
(10:33):
things that make home feel safe,like you have a refuge away
from all the recordings and awayfrom all the embarrassment.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Absolutely Parents.
Let me just say this you shouldnot be your kid's biggest bully
, and I think sometimes it feelslike that when, maybe you tell
mom about something reallyembarrassing that happens and
they go post it on Facebook.
Oh my gosh, like you're justmaking fun of your kid in front
of all their friends or in frontof like a bunch of people.
Maybe they don't even know, butlike I promise it's going to
(11:02):
get back around to them.
I will say I feel like a lot ofparents, a lot of moms
specifically, don't know this ordon't recognize this.
But, um, I know what you'regoing to say.
It's happened to me many atimes.
Um, you post something on yourpersonal Facebook, maybe a photo
that you don't think like it'sa little goofy, but you don't
think it's embarrassing, likeit's just a dumb little photo,
(11:24):
and when they're like firstgrade, or second grade, yeah.
Like flashbacks, like for theirbirthdays, and you're like, oh,
it's cute, like it doesn'tmatter.
Oh, it matters, because this iswhat's going to happen.
When their friends wantammunition on them or just want
to like poke fun at them, theywill find a way, creatively Even
(11:45):
if your account's private.
They will find a way to getinto your Facebook account,
screenshot those pictures ofyour child and blast them
everywhere, like broadcast thosephotos.
It has happened to me severaltimes and it was humiliating and
looking back, I'm like,whatever it was a picture of me
when I was like you know nine,like it's, it's okay.
But in the moment I was like,oh my gosh, mom, I can't believe
(12:07):
you did that.
I cannot believe you did thatand you know what that signals
to your kid.
I can't tell mom stuff.
I can't tell mom my privateinformation because it's going
to get broadcasted everywhereand everyone's going to make fun
of me for it and it makes themfeel like mom or dad.
They're not my safe placeanymore.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
So if you guys have heard me speak, one of the
things that I say at events is,if I could turn back the time,
and one thing that I would dodifferently it would be ask
permission to post earlier.
I started this when she was inmiddle school.
In sixth grade I started askingher permission for everything.
I wish I would have started wayearlier.
(12:46):
It was just.
It caught me by storm.
You know, we were learning thisdigital world and I would say
learn from my mistakes.
You know, don't do what I did,because it also just shows your
kid respect and it also teachesthem like consent.
You know, is it okay if I postthis of you and they have the
(13:06):
authority to give consent, yesor no?
And that can apply to so manyother conversations too, about
consent and standing up forthemselves and and that sort of
thing.
But but definitely respect thatboundary.
I will say most of the timewhen you're.
When your friends got picturesof you from when you were young,
it was done in fun, not truelike making fun of you, bullying
(13:30):
, not true bullying.
But I think we need to becareful with that because even
though it wasn't true bullying,I can't dismiss how it made her
feel and she didn't like it.
And so I think also as moms,I'm guilty of this.
I will just be like, oh my gosh, honey, that's your best friend
(13:51):
doing it.
They love you, they're notmaking fun of you, but it's
dismissing the way it makes herfeel.
By responding that way, it canhurt this relationship, and so
we just have to have our guardup that we're not dismissive of
your feelings, even if we thinkit's silly.
And I think sometimes too, moms, when they post something funny
(14:11):
like that, like making fun oftheir kids, I think moms just
want to.
I mean, I don't think it's donewithin the intention of being
mean, but I think what happensis other people chime in and
then they share stories abouttheir kids, and some kids may
not like that, and it willaffect the relationship and how
(14:33):
the kid can feel safe with theparent Absolutely, and so it's
just not worth it.
I always think in my mind, like,is it worth a like to hurt the
relationship that I've worked sohard to build?
And I think we need tocontinually ask ourselves that.
And so how we've combated thatis, I just ask permission now.
Even if it's a funny post,that's kind of making fun of
(14:54):
them, which I do sometimes, butI will ask your permission and
they'll be like oh yeah, Iremember Bubby recently had
stinky clothes in his locker andI was making fun of him, like
what in the world, boys, you'vegot to wash your clothes.
And I asked him if I could postit and he was like sure, but it
was kind of, you know, makingfun of the fact, and so I think
(15:15):
it just shows respect making funof the fact, and so I think it
just shows respect.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So something else that I think is really weighing
heavy on a lot of kids duringthis developmental period is
really just the amount ofstressors that they have on them
.
So, like for me in high school,like I had my extracurriculars
AP classes, dual credit classes,friend groups there's this
(15:40):
whole like weird, like mentalthing about how people are
perceiving you and like how youwant people to label you or
identify you.
I remember every day on thefirst day of school having just
overwhelming anxiety about wheream I going to sit at lunch,
like what friends do I have forthat lunch period?
(16:03):
Where are we going to sit?
Because it feels like itdetermines the course of your
entire high school career.
Like that sounds so dumb, andlike you're probably listening
to this like oh please, butseriously, like in high school,
middle school, like that's athing.
Like do you have friends to sitwith?
(16:23):
Are you going to look like aloner?
There's just all theseanxieties that I think as
parents like you have your ownstressors, like really like big
stressors.
Like how am I going to feed mykids?
How am I going to you know,like make enough money to get
through this week.
Like those.
Like big things, but for kidsthey have all these anxieties
that just feel really big tothem.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
I think one shift from when I was a kid was, I
don't, I mean, we didn't havethe AP, the dual credit.
You know, getting into collegewasn't as difficult.
I don't think in my generation,I mean, I didn't even know what
my rank was, and I rememberwhen you guys had high school,
that was a whole thing.
You know what's your rank, whatyou know that first time that
(17:06):
came out.
And so I do want to talk aboutexpectations a bit, because that
was difficult to figure out asa parent, because I didn't want
to raise an undisciplined, lazychild.
You know, of course we had tohave expectations of you guys,
but I also think we had to bevery careful not to push too
(17:28):
hard.
And so can you speak into that,because I think that could be
very helpful to parents on onwhat you perceive from your
ninth grade self, what helpedand what didn't help.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, well, I feel like me personally.
I feel like y'all always pushedme to do my best, um, but
sometimes my best just wasn'tgood enough and that was okay.
Like that was something yousaid to me.
It's like, oh my gosh, like Ididn't do well on that test.
Well, did you try your best?
Yeah, then you did good on thattest.
(18:02):
You know, it's like, did youstudy, did you put in the work?
And if you didn't get theresults you wanted, that's okay,
because you tried your best.
Um, I feel like that was thatwas good for me.
That was a really good thingthat y'all did.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
I do remember one time saying too you know, were
you on Instagram when you werestudying and that's why you did
bad?
Or did you actually study andyou still didn't, couldn't do it
?
You know, I think that's adifferent thing, but it's a
thought process that the kidsneed to think about, because if
you're just playing on yourphone, that's not doing your
best.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
And I wanted you to.
I wanted to hold you to that,but I wanted you to think about
it Like you tell me what did youdo during that study time?
Yeah, so when you're shiftingthe responsibility of the, your,
the child's performance, tolike their abilities, to like
how hard they worked, I feellike it.
It shifts the way they thinkabout themselves and their,
their identity and the worth oftheir abilities.
Because, say, I didn't do greaton a test and y'all were to say
like it's because you're notsmart, like obviously you
(19:05):
wouldn't say that.
But if, if I was like, did you?
Did you try your best?
And I'm like, yeah, I reallydid try my best.
And y'all were like just gottawork harder next time.
Well, that's teaching me.
My best.
Like isn't good enough.
No, my best like made me failthis, like I am not good enough
to pass this class or to getthis grade.
So when you're saying like youworked your hardest and that is
(19:29):
enough, like that is good, itshifts that mindset of thinking
like this is my fault, I didthis.
Like I'm not good enough.
It's taking away that label oflike I my fault, I did this,
like I'm not good enough.
It's taking away that, thatlabel of like I'm stupid, I'm
dumb, like I can't do this.
Yeah, I also saw a lot, um, likethe, the really high performing
students that you know theywould make a 92 and be in tears
(19:54):
in the bathroom and it's like,oh my gosh, like, please, like
it's okay, like a 92, likethat's phenomenal.
But to them, you know, theirparents at home are saying a 92,
why didn't you get a 100?
Like why wasn't it perfect?
You could have done better.
And so I think that's a reallybig thing for parents is like
when you set a goal, make sureyou're not adjusting it.
(20:16):
Like if you're telling your kidlike I won is.
Like when you set a goal, makesure you're not adjusting it.
Like if you're telling your kidlike I won't, like your goal is
all A's and they get allnineties.
Don't get mad at them for notgetting 95s.
You know, yeah, like they havemet the goal, celebrate that,
celebrate that.
Don't keep adjusting it to makethem do better.
No, that can be something downthe line Like all right, let's
(20:37):
talk.
Like, let's work, how can weget this even better next time?
That's like that improvement,but not adjusting it so they
feel their accomplishments.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I think we're guilty of that.
I think a lot of parents I meanme too are guilty of moving the
needle and that it makes youfeel like you can never be good
enough or you can never doenough, and that really can hurt
your, your um your, yourself-esteem, your mental health,
everything, and so I thinkthat's a really good word.
(21:06):
I also want to talk about thelabel.
We said you know you'd mentionedthe label of stupid or dumb or
you know whatever.
I think that's another thingthat parents can do to help
teenagers who are strugglingtoday too is just say to your
kid, like you don't have to haveall the labels figured out, you
don't have to have youridentity figured out, and that's
(21:29):
one thing that I I instilled inher was I would.
I would say the only label yougive yourself right now is child
of God, and you have years tofigure out your other labels.
You know, like I say, the onlylabel you give yourself right
now is child of God, and youhave years to figure out your
other labels.
You know, like I now have alabel of mom, of author, of
whatever, but, but you have allthose years.
Don't put pressure on yourselfwhen you feel, when in ninth
(21:51):
grade, to have it all figuredout, because I think the other
thing, too I would remind you ofis everybody feels kind of
weird in ninth grade.
Everybody feels weird abouttheir body, about their mental
health, about everything.
You're questioning everythingbecause you're going through
puberty and that's kind ofnormal.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, I think in your age there was like the pressure
to fit in a social group oflike the cheerleaders, the jocks
, the nerds, the whatever, likethat's very stereotypical and
like sure that still existstoday to a degree.
But now there's the addition ofsocial media and the identity
labels of like, like, what'syour aesthetic?
(22:32):
Are you preppy?
Are you Coquette?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Well, let me also ask you this Um, you know you went
through different clothingstages as a young girl.
Yeah, are you glad that youwere able to easily roll out of
those and give those away?
Cause I think that's a perfecttalking point with young people
today, as, like with youridentity, just give it a minute,
because you're going to change.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, I definitely found pressure on myself around
junior year of high school toput myself in a certain box,
label my style, my aesthetic assomething, and it ended up
becoming pretty damaging becausewhen I started to feel like, oh
, like I don't feel ascomfortable in this anymore, it
was like no, but this is myidentity, I have to stick to
this.
So, just reminding your kidslike you don't have to stick to
(23:23):
anything, like you can trythings out, like you can try out
the different clothes and thedifferent styles, like that's
what this time is for, so thatwhen you're in your adulthood
you're starting to realize thisis what I like, this is what I
want to sustain for my life.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Let's talk about clothing for a minute.
Sustain for my life.
Let's talk about clothing for aminute and just um, because I
do think too, sometimes clothingdoes equal an identity or a
label or something, and I thinksometimes parents freak out
about it and so can you speakinto that Like, just help us
figure out how to navigate that.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I would say, when you're doing that, you're
putting a label on your kidyourself, like you're the one
stressed out about oh my gosh,are they assuming a label?
Are they assuming an identity?
But by carrying that assumptionwith you, you're already like
putting a label on them.
Yeah, I would say in the middleschool, high school years, like
they're experimenting withdifferent styles and clothings
(24:19):
and they're trying to find whatthey're comfortable and
confident in.
And if they find something thatthey're confident in, don't
bash them for it or make fun ofthem for it.
Obviously, I feel like maybethere's a line.
There's always a line.
There's always a line wheremaybe it's a little too far.
But if it's something thatthey're confident in, that is so
(24:42):
rare for a teenager to feelconfident in their self and
their body and how they'reconfident in, that is so rare
for a teenager to feel confidentin their self and their body
and how they're presentingthemselves, just let them like
sit back, like let them, andthey'll look back later on and
maybe be like oh wow, that wasquite a fashion choice, like
that was.
I mean, I think that all thetime I'm like, oh my gosh, like
I wore some like interestingstuff back in the day.
Um, but it's something they'reable to look back on and be like
(25:03):
.
But you know what?
Like I was confident.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
I think too, you know you talk about letting a kid be
confident in what they want towear, and I think that's so, so
important for sure.
But I also think you know youmentioned a line and there is a
line sometimes, Um, and I thinkthat the early conversations
help create a foundation for youknowing what that line was a
(25:27):
little bit, because it's hard totalk about clothing and body
image when your kids are goingthrough puberty and going
through all of that, and so Iknow we don't think that that's
a five-year-old conversation,but it actually is, you know,
instilling truth in them abouthow beautiful they are and how
confident they should be, andthat kind of stuff at five years
(25:48):
old.
And I think that's reallyimportant too.
Um, to when, even when they getto this experimenting with
clothing, it's like they know aline in their mind.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
For sure.
Yeah, I think thosefoundational conversations we
had even though there were somethings I would, I would push
against at times, especiallywhen I was like a junior in high
school there was eventuallylike a line of like all right,
I'm not going that far, likethat is like the things I knew
from conversations we've hadabout like that isn't like
(26:21):
honoring my body or like thatisn't honoring God.
So those kinds of things whereI was like I wouldn't push that
far.
But maybe someone like if youhaven't had as much open
communication, like that's moredifficult to navigate because in
the time it just feels to theteen like like mom doesn't get
it or like she doesn't know whatit's like or why can't I just
(26:44):
express myself?
You know, if this is what Ifeel confident in, why can't I
just wear it?
Um, it's so.
It's a lot of those like earlyconversations leading up to it.
Um, you just want to be careful, like if you are trying to
navigate a conversation likethat, you're not coming into it
with judgment or shaming,because shame is never a
productive strategy to changesomeone's mind ever.
(27:06):
That goes for like anything.
Shame is just going to makethem feel like nasty and and in
their head about everything.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, I think too you have to be very careful
navigating the clothingsituation with your teenager.
I know for you you have superlong legs and so sometimes I
would say to you, I mean, I'mjealous, honestly, of the long,
thin legs.
But I would say to you it'sharder for you to wear a skirt
(27:38):
because it looks shorter on you.
And there's nothing that you'redoing wrong.
It's the fact that the the waythe skirt is made and with your
long legs it looks shorter thanwhat it is, and we would talk
about dress coding at school.
Like I don't want you to getembarrassed, I don't want you to
be asked, but but stillinstilling in you that you were
(27:59):
beautiful and it was not a bodyissue with you, I think is
really important as you, as younavigate this.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I think it was important when you were
navigating those conversationsabout like with my legs, like
wearing a skirt, it wasn't likeyou.
Wearing a skirt is like,shameful or you wearing a skirt
or girl go change that.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
That is too short, Like I would never just say that
you didn't want me to feel likescandalous or sexualized.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
It was just a conversation of like what might
the consequences of this be?
Like you are taller and likeyou might get dress coded for
that because you have more legsshowing you know.
So it was like how can youprotect yourself from something?
It wasn't so much like there'ssomething wrong with you and you
need to change this, it wasjust how can you protect
(28:46):
yourself.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, yeah.
And so I think, navigatingthose conversations parents,
when you do need to speak up,you feel like you need to speak
up because you, your kid, iscrossing the line with clothing
or whatever.
I think that's important thatyou do that, but pray about it
so that it's guided by the HolySpirit and we're not body
shaming or making our kid feelbad.
(29:07):
I think that's very, veryimportant and does a lot for the
relationship.
I think, more than anything, asparents, we just need to be a
safe place for you guys, to be asafe place for you guys to vent
, to cry, to question, to yell,sometimes in anger, like I'm
(29:28):
just frustrated.
I know sometimes you would justvent to me and I would go into
fix it mode and you would get somad at me and say, mom, I don't
want you to fix anything, Ijust need to vent to someone.
Don't do anything with thisinformation, just let me word
vomit on you my words, not yours.
But I think being that safeplace is so important.
So can you talk about that withparents today?
(29:50):
I mean, they, these teenagers,are just facing so much.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, I mean I would say teenagers are facing so much
judgment, they feel so judgedfrom so much external stimuli.
They feel so much pressure toact or be a certain way.
They want to have a refuge anda safe place in their parents
and the tricky thing is like ifthey don't find it in you,
(30:16):
they'll find it in someone else,someone who might be a bad
influence or could be a groomeronline.
And I don't mean this to belike a fear mongering, like
scare, you kind of thing.
You just want to be that safeplace for your kid, because they
are so easily influenced and soeasily drawn to things that are
more comfortable.
You want to be their safe place.
(30:37):
You want to be the place wherethey feel loved and not judged.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Well, and one of the things I learned too is along
the way, and maybe you can speakinto this a bit.
I feel like you guys really seefake a lot, like you see a kid
acting online a certain way andthen they go to school and
they're completely different.
You see that a lot.
It's like you can smell a ratwhen people are trying to act
(31:03):
one way online and be differentin person.
And I think for me as a mom,you have kind of kept me in
check.
Am I real at home and am I realwhen I'm posting online?
Because to me, thatauthenticity of you seeing me be
the same person helps build ourrelationship as well and it's a
(31:26):
good model for you.
And I haven't always been goodat that and you've called me out
on it.
When I'm not, when you're likemom, why would you post this?
You would never do this.
I mean you've you've called meout on a couple of things.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, for sure.
And again, it instills thatidea that, like I, can be real
and I can be genuine andauthentic with people and
there's something good andtrustworthy and honest about
that.
It's not something like yourtrue self, isn't something to be
shoved away and hidden underlayers of style and makeup and
popularity and Instagram posts.
It's something to be embracedand um and shown to others.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Yeah, Um, and I think I think you just guys see fake
all day.
And if parents can be real,have real conversations and and
have that genuineness at home,it means something.
Because you're limited on thatin your, in your circles.
Yeah Right, Even some of yourclosest friends sometimes are
different online than in person.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I think, more than anything.
I think this is almost tosummarize everything we've been
talking about today.
Your kids are just strugglingwith so much in their social
circles and online.
Like you want to be that placethat's different.
Like you want to be that refuge.
They don't want to come home tothe same exhaustion that
(32:46):
they're facing at school.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
And I would also say, parents, if you're, if you're
watching this and you're likeyou know, I think my kid's fine,
I don't think they're reallystruggling with anything.
I think I would challenge youon that.
And, uh, you know, one of thethings that I would say to my
kids is, if there's anythingthat you are struggling with
that you can't get out of yourmind, like maybe you're laying
(33:09):
down at night and something'slooping in your mind that is
stressing you out, like that'sthe thing I need you to tell me.
And that could be.
I mean, that could be somethinglike I don't like the way that
person is thinking of me andthat could be.
I mean, that could be somethinglike I don't like the way that
person is thinking of me.
Or I posted this four days agoand somebody responded this way
and now I'm stressed out aboutit.
(33:29):
Whatever it is that is keepingyour kid up at night, ask them,
say that is what I want you toshare with me, because you're
not made to do life alone.
Like I will carry this with you.
And I think if parents can dothat and then respond calmly and
logically and not overreactinto crazy parent mode, I think
(33:51):
that man, just real, genuinerelationship can happen between
parent and child.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
I mean really to loop back to the first thing I said
kids, it gets better.
That's something that'sdifficult for parents to say,
because they're going to be like, okay, mom, like it's different
for me.
So I don't know if that'snecessarily something you could
tell your kids, but I wouldencourage you parents as well
Like it gets better for you,like they'll hit their peaks and
(34:18):
they'll they'll beexperimenting with all these
things and you'll be like, oh mygosh, what's happening?
Like, are they going to turnout like this?
It'll be fine, it'll mellow out, like it's okay, you're trying
your best, um, and your best isgood enough.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Yeah, I would say I had a friend tell me trust what
you've taught.
And I've.
I've told myself that over andover again when you are going
through your, your weirdclothing phases and all of that
kind of stuff.
So trust what you've taught,yes, and then and then.
One other thing that I justwant to end on here that I think
is really important too, aswe're talking about helping
(34:53):
teens navigate, is I think it'sso important for parents, when
they do get it wrong, say theydo respond badly to the clothing
, they do body shame, they dosay something off the cuff that
adds to your stress and theyrealize it.
I think it's so, so importantto apologize and model that
(35:14):
humility for your kid.
Can you speak into that alittle bit?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yeah, I mean, I think it just so it shows so much
respect and trust.
Um, when a parent is able toget down on their kid's level
and apologize and it shows youknow, obviously there's an
automatic power imbalance with aparent and a kid and when
you're able to get to theirlevel and say, like I messed up,
I'm sorry, like I hurt yourfeelings and I didn't mean to,
(35:43):
but like I understand why I did,it means so much and it's so
validating when they're in suchthis, this huge world of
emotional turmoil.
Um, it just means so much andit builds so much connection
that they're able to say likewow, like mom is listening to me
and like she's trying to get it, like she can't fully
understand what I'm goingthrough, but she's trying.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
It's so different how you are growing up than how I
grew up, so we see thingsdifferently and I think too,
when we're discussing thosedifferences and sometimes I'm a
little overbearing in myopinions or whatever you know, a
lot of times the day will go byand then I'll come back and say
I'm so sorry, I monopolizedthat conversation.
You know, tell me more abouthow, why you feel that way,
(36:27):
because I just don't see it thatway.
But help me understand.
I think too, in just thosemoments, that has really helped
our relationship.
Um and again, it's thathumility that I.
I didn't get it right, Ioverreacted, I was emotional or
whatever, super opinionated, andI came off luxury instead of.
I want to listen and I want tohear your perspective.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, it's that, that humility to want again to
listen and to understand umgetting on their level.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
So many shifts that we've had over the years that
I've screwed up, and then, whenI would, when I would correct it
, I would see the difference itmade.
And so that's why I'm sopassionate about sharing with
you those little, those littletweaks that we made that such
made such a difference.
Okay, so any last words forparents who have teenagers, and
it's just a hard, difficult timeright now.
(37:18):
How can you support yourteenagers better?
Speaker 2 (37:20):
I would say trust the process, trust your kid, trust
that you've taught.
What was it?
Trust what you've taught.
Trust what you've taught.
Um, it's going to be like quitea ride, but it's all going to
work out in the end, Like I'm 20, I'm fine now.
We had our moments, though,where we're like, oh my gosh,
like is she going to be okay?
And I'm okay.
(37:41):
I'm living evidence that it'sall going to work out.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
It is cool.
It is cool to get on this sideof it and just she's an adult
Like it's so weird, she pays herown rent and her bills and I
don't have to check in on her.
I mean, it's just a really coolthing.
So you've got that waiting onthe other side.
But I would just encourage youreally keep trying to build the
(38:06):
relationship, because that isreally where it's at.
You're keeping them safe online, yes, but you're building a
relationship that's going tolast forever in your family.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Be that safe place for your kid.
Next Talk is a 501c3 nonprofitkeeping kids safe online.
To support our work, make adonation at nexttalkorg.
Next Talk resources are notintended to replace the advice
of a trained healthcare or legalprofessional, or to diagnose,
treat or otherwise render expertadvice regarding any type of
medical, psychological, legal,financial or other problem.
You are advised to consult aqualified expert for your
personal treatment plan.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Our Next Talk podcast is in the top 2% of over 3.4
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But now we're also addingYouTube, so this is a whole new
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