🙏 In This Episode:
🕊️ Vatican Conclave: What Happens Next?
- With the Conclave now underway, we turn to Father John for a behind-the-scenes look at how a new pope is chosen, how long the process might take, and what really happens inside the walls of the Vatican during this sacred decision.
- Father John brings decades of knowledge—and some eye-opening stories—on how the Church chooses its next spiritual leader.
💡 Faith in a World That Tries to Water It Down
- Mark and Father John dive into one of the most important questions of our time:
How do Christians stay true to their faith when the world constantly asks them to compromise it?
- Father John offers practical and powerful wisdom for standing by Jesus Christ while the culture pushes conformity.
🔍 Who Should Be the Next Pope?
- Yes—we go there. Mark and Father John share their preferences for the next pontiff.
- Mark even names his prohibitive favorite—and let’s just say it’s a bold pick you may not expect.
😂 Trump as Pope Meme?
- You read that right. Krysty asks Father John about the viral “Trump as Pope” meme.
- His response? Pure gold. A perfect blend of faith, wit, and wisdom.
Website: https://www.nodoubtaboutitpodcast.com/
Twitter: @nodoubtpodcast
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NoDoubtAboutItPod/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/markronchettinm/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ%3D%3D
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
all right here we go.
This is big time on the noabout not a no doubt about a
podcast.
Yes, father john carney joiningus because it's conclave season
, baby, and we're gonna talkabout what's going on this is
gonna need some good graphicswith conclave season.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Oh, I know, believe me we're gonna have.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
So we're gonna go through what's going on with it.
It because we think there'sgoing to be an episode again
about faith with Father John welove talking to him about it and
because the conclave gotstarted on Wednesday, first vote
.
By the way, black smokeeverybody.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Black smoke.
We got a little bit of video ofthat Actually the video is up,
father John.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
John, you've seen the video.
Yes, but at this point, so far,we do not have a pope.
Not a surprise, though, right,father?
I mean initially.
Um, as far as is what you wouldexpect, this is not unusual at
all.
Just one vote for today.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
It would have been shocking had that smoke been
white yeah, absolutely yeah, sotwo, two or three days is
considered kind of max at thistime so tomorrow or friday there
should be a uh, a pope elected.
Okay, well, we'll talk aboutall that and kind of max at this
time.
So tomorrow or Friday thereshould be a a prop elected.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Okay, well, we'll.
We'll talk about all that andkind of go through some of the
humor that's involved in this aswell, and we'll talk about the
church in general and why it isChristy's a Protestant.
I grew up Catholic and kind ofstraddled both worlds.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Now we're not finished with you yet.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh, no, no, no Believe me, I still absolutely
consider myself a Catholicfather and my parents right now
they should be cheering into thephone.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Oh, I'm sure they're listening to this and they would
be.
I mean, too bad they're nothere because they would be like
let's put the pressure on Markright now.
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I absolutely still very much identify with the
church and love it.
So we're going to get into allthis, but first the preparation.
So you know, at the Vaticanover the past couple of weeks
right I think right afterFrancis's death they started
preparing and I didn't reallyrealize this.
Like they put up the smokestack, they put the whole deal up and
going.
I guess if you're Francis, youdon't want them doing that ahead
(01:53):
of time, right, you're like heylook, listen, let's not let's
not jump the gun here.
But.
But they did that and actuallythe Vatican put out some videos
saying, ok, we're getting allthe cardinals ready and
everything else.
So for people who aren'tfamiliar with what's basically
happening here right now andwith the Catholic Church, tell
us a little bit about thisprocess from a 10,000-foot level
(02:14):
.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Yeah, there'll be 133 cardinals age 79 or younger who
will vote for the next pope.
There were additional cardinalsAll the cardinals of the world
just about were in Rome thispast week but 133 will vote.
Now it's interesting thecardinal doesn't have a place in
the hierarchy of the church.
People think that Monsignorsdon't either.
(02:37):
It's just honorific.
But the cardinals have two jobs.
One is to advise the pope whenhe's living, obviously, and the
second one is to elect a newPope after the death of a Pope.
That's it, that's their twojobs.
And there are again, worldwide,I guess, about 200 cardinals.
Many of them are quite aged,you know, in their 90s, but
still pretty active in somecases.
(02:58):
So they come to Rome after thedeath, they go to the funeral.
There's, I think, a nine-daymourning period after the
funeral.
We like nine days, novenas, etcetera and then they meet and
during those nine days they havemeetings and discussions and
they can give what they callinterventions, where they get up
(03:18):
and they make a case, not for aperson so much, but what the
issues are and how we should belooking.
And of course they pray for theguidance of the Holy Spirit to
give them to change their heartsand to elect a pope that Jesus
would be pleased with, after themodel of his first pope, st
Peter.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Now interesting.
I mean this is completely alittle off topic.
But I also heard, I read on BBCtoday that a lot of these
cardinals that are in townthey're also hitting like their
favorite restaurants that areclose to the Vatican.
Because once they go into thisconclave then it's locked down
and it is food is brought in forthem and serve you know, create
or made for them there.
They are not walking back outto these favorite restaurants.
(04:01):
So they said it's kind of thisflood where you see all these
Cardinals hitting their favoritespots right before the conclave
.
So I thought that was kind offun.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Yeah Well, they love to eat.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Yeah, like all of us.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
But I don't think they'll starve in the conclave
either.
Anyone who goes hungry in Italyis a lost soul.
You know, I did read though too.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I know this is kind of nerdy, but I read that they
at least back in the day, theysaid you couldn't have ravioli,
chicken or napkins because theywere worried that they would be
passing messages.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Secrets in the ravioli.
Secrets in the ravioli so.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I thought.
I don't know if that's stillhappening today, but apparently
you know, hundreds of years agoit was like there were certain
foods that you could not bringinto the conclave.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
They do have wine, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Oh yeah, so you want to talk about trading secrets,
just pour enough wine.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Well, also, if you like spirits, the Cardinals
bring their own bottles ofJameson Irish whiskey.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Oh, there you go.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
We Catholics are allowed to do that.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Oh yes, Protestants, that's a big no-no.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
That's why you guys have some of my best drinking
buddies were Baptists.
Oh, I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, Don't believe.
Don't believe.
All of us Don't have a cocktailfrom time to time?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So we have the one vote today and then we have a
little bit of a schedule so wecan show you what that looks
like and what four votestomorrow Is.
That is that right?
They'll?
They'll vote early in themorning and then explain this a
little bit.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
I expect probably two votes in the morning, two in
the evening, four votes.
I'm not sure.
I think they can take more ifthey wish, but it's two votes in
the morning, two in the evening.
So it'll be four votes tomorrowand four votes Friday.
If it's not decided by Friday,that's day three.
I believe that's considered daythree, the Friday or Saturday.
But after day three they get a24-hour break where they can
(05:44):
meet together and talk offline,if you will.
They're still under conclaveand, by the way I mentioned, the
word conclave has veryinteresting history.
It means with the key, but,paraphrasing it, it means to be
locked in.
And so they're in there,although they're in a Sistine
(06:05):
Chapel, but they're going to theSanta Maria guest house for
meals and sleeping.
They're very simpleaccommodations no phones, no
radios, no TV, no newspapersthose kinds of things, yeah,
interesting, okay, in thistimeframe.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
It's got some history behind it recently, especially
over the past 30 years or ourlifetimes.
Really it's been pretty quick.
Take a look here.
We've got some history behindit recently, especially over the
past 30 years or our lifetimes.
Really it's been pretty quick.
Take a look here.
We've got a graphic on it andif we go back and we look sorry,
ave, next one, uh, just keepgoing right there, okay.
So as we look here, we go backto francis, obviously a couple
of days.
Benedict was similar, john paulwas similar.
(06:39):
Uh, pious the seventh was twodays.
So again, you have to go back aways to even get to say four
days or even beyond that.
So it definitely in recentmemory has been a bit quicker.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Yeah, pius XII actually.
Yeah, yeah, that was 1958.
He ruled from 39 to 58.
Yeah, it's quicker.
They want it to be relativelyquick because it's a sign of
unity.
If they go forever and ever andever, they say, well, they're
in there fighting, my goodness,the Catholic churches and
(07:13):
disarray internally and the like.
So it's to their advantage, toour advantage, that they decide
quickly, and sometimes, it'sinteresting there may be some
frontrunners early on and theyjust kind of disappear.
As a matter of fact, that wasthe case with John Paul II, St
John Paul II, this fantastichuman being right.
Him and Ronald Reagan.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
We love him and he was kind of an alternate
candidate and he came out laterin the voting process, so it's
interesting.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, Is there a kind of thought process that certain
areas of the world it would bea shock?
Would it be a shock to see anAmerican Pope, for example?
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Yes, I think so.
Yes, Maybe that's the only areaof the world would be really a
shock.
And you know, Robert Barron,Bishop Barron mentioned this
recently.
Look, America has got theworld's greatest military, the
greatest economy.
You know, we're the big guy andthe last thing the church needs
is an American pope, right?
I mean, he'll have a strikeagainst them immediately because
(08:16):
they'll say, well, look, it wasAmericans.
You know, people who don't likeus anyway will criticize that.
So that would be an absolutetotal shock us anyway, will
criticize that.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So that would be an absolute total shock.
And did you think Pope Francisnot a huge fan of the?
What was his issue with America?
Because it's well known that itjust didn't seem like there was
a connection there at all.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Yeah, there's a lot of things that are well known.
There's no question in my mind,anybody who knows what's going
on, that there are divisionswithin the church and that there
were divisions Perhaps they'vealways been there Pretty acute
right now.
The left, the right, liberal,progressive versus conservative,
traditional Latin mass All ofthese issues are on the front
(08:55):
burner today and yeah, it'sgenerally.
I mean, I believe Francis hadno particular liking for the
United States, always quick tocriticize any aspect of
capitalism he didn't like, andhe was very, he wanted to be
very close to China, the PRC,people's Republic of China.
What in the world is that about?
(09:16):
Well, there's an undergroundchurch.
China has a population of 1.4billion people, so we're
interested in it.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I guess I was thinking more.
I mean the PRC, like Well,they're the right, it's.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
the PRC is a dictatorship of Xi Jinping Right
you know, it's not evencommunist.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
So what is the snuggling up there?
Speaker 4 (09:33):
I mean, well, the underground church has existed
for centuries, and I thinkFrancis wanted to let that
underground church come to thefront, and so he made a deal
negotiated by his secretary ofstate, cardinal Parolin, pietro
Parolin.
He made a deal in 2018 with asecret deal, which you know.
(09:54):
Transparency is reallyimportant.
If our church hasn't learnedthat in light of the sexual
abuse scandal, we're never goingto learn anything.
You know.
Candle, we're never going tolearn anything, you know.
So a secret deal in 2018, itwas re-signed in 2024, last year
that the PRC would have my term, a chop on who we name bishop,
(10:16):
and that's, I think, unheard of.
I think maybe Napoleon did that, but it's really, yeah, really
virtually unheard of, and-.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Because who normally, so sorry, who normally picks
the bishops, then Is it thechurch itself the Pope?
Speaker 4 (10:30):
picks every bishop, the Pope picks every bishop.
Okay, and each country has aPapal Nuncio the ambassador to
the United States, the PapalNuncio Pierre Christophe, who's
from a Frenchman, who's our Papin Uncio currently.
They come up with the list andthey say this guy's good, this
guy.
And then when they getpossibility they ask all the
(10:53):
bishops, give me a name or two,a priest that would be a good
bishop.
And then they really vet themvery hard.
They send maybe a dozen lettersout, secret letters to other
priests in that diocese and sayis this a good guy?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Yeah, sure, checking them.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
I happen to have a little personal experience in
that regard.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah, you do.
Well, so why for people who arenot Catholic and maybe just
Christians or whatever, whateverfaith they may be?
Why is this so important?
Because to me it is important.
I've always felt like theseconclaves are a huge deal.
I think the Catholic Church isreally important to the faith of
(11:30):
the planet.
So tell me why.
The case you would make to sayyou know someone of another,
maybe Christian faith, that says, okay, maybe see it in passing,
but like, well, I'm notCatholic, so but it does matter.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
It matters a lot.
Yeah, there's a saying wherePeter is, there is the church.
You know, Peter was the firstpope.
He was selected to lead thechurch by Jesus himself.
We were talking about that alittle while ago there, jesus
once asked his disciples well,who do people say that I am?
And one of the apostles saidwell, some say you're Elijah,
(12:04):
others say you're one of theapostles.
Said well, some say you'reElijah, others say you're one of
the prophets.
And then he looked at Peter andsaid who do you say I am?
And Peter, he said, actuallysaid Simon bar Jonah, simon, son
of John, who do you say I am?
And he said you are the Christ,the son of the living God.
And Jesus responded no man hastold you that, but, my heavenly
father, you are Peter.
(12:24):
He gave him a name change,which means mission change.
You know, abram became AbrahamSarah et cetera.
So he gave him a mission change.
He said you are Peter, and theword Peter means rock, and upon
this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not
prevail against it.
Whatever you bind on earth willbe bound in heaven.
Whatever you loose on earthwill be loose in heaven.
I think it's Matthew 21.
So, loose in heaven, I thinkit's Matthew 21.
(12:49):
So it's clearly a scripture andso that's important.
He is the head of the churchand his mission.
You know a lot of the talk andI've read a lot of.
You've read a lot.
You know people who don'taren't Christians, have read a
lot.
It's interesting.
A lot of the talk has been kindof secular.
They're looking at this througha secular lens, you know, which
is understandable.
But the prime consideration ofwho is selected as pope should
be he who can best declare Jesusas Lord, son of the living God,
(13:14):
who took on flesh and died androse again and wants us to join
him in eternal life in the realmof heaven.
Right, so that's his number one.
He has to be an evangelist.
However, he does it.
And secondly, he's the image.
Again, where Peter is, there isthe church and so he is the
(13:34):
image.
There's 1.4 billion Catholicsand when we look to him, we look
to who he's our leader.
We do that with the president,the prime minister, but really
with the pope, so it's very,he's our.
I don't know if we do that witha president, the prime minister
, but really with the Pope, soit's very, very important.
And also, I think there's afascination.
We were chatting before aboutthese various elections.
That one took three years.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Yeah, so this one I've pulled up this was, I
thought, was so crazy.
It said the longest one inhistory.
I pulled this from an article.
They were kind of bitter aboutan Italian pope or an Italian
man and a French man and theywere kind of going back and
forth and it had been going onfor almost three years.
And so to break that deadlock,this was in 1268, I believe.
Hold on, let me find the yearyou went back 1268, okay, so a
(14:21):
long time ago right.
Long long time ago.
This was in a town near Rome,but since they could not make up
their minds right, they brickedup the windows, they gave them
only bread and water and theytook the roof off of the top of
the building so they could becloser to the Holy Spirit.
Okay, that's what they claimed,right?
And they basically did thewhole thing.
You were talking about theconclave.
(14:42):
That's where that became, wherethey said we're putting a key
in, you're not leaving now, andso you need to make a decision.
And based on that three-yearexperience, the next guy that
was named Pope which is he wasPope Gregory, I guess, pope
Gregory X he said we're notdoing this again.
So he imposed like new ruleswith this conclave and said you
know, we're going to have somestrict rules so this thing
(15:03):
doesn't turn into a grease firefor three years again.
You know exactly what you'resaying, because it is an image
of unity Are you guys on thesame page?
Are the Cardinals on the samepage, or is this?
You know, like you, just youknow, and since we don't know,
right, it's a big mystery to allof us on what's happening.
You know, and I think I wouldask you that is what can you
(15:23):
share about the conclave, likewhat do you know of that happens
other than the voting?
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Oh, I don't know anything, nothing, it's all like
.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
You have to be a cardinal to get in and find out
the secret.
Knock and everything.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Yeah, there are again 133 cardinal electors, and they
don't know, they don't know,they don't know, and you know
they've been politicking.
And just to clarify, when wehear the word politics, it's
pejorative, you know yeah rightRight.
The word politics is not bad.
I had a degree in politicalscience.
Okay, it's the art ofcompromise, that's one
(15:57):
definition of politics.
So yeah, there's a lot of dirtyshenanigans that go on in
politics.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Mark Ronchetti probably could mention a few.
Yes, we know a couple inpolitics.
Mark Ronchetti probably couldmention a few.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Yes, we know a couple .
Speaker 4 (16:09):
We know a few.
But yeah, but you know, yearsago, like in the 13th century,
as you mentioned, the separationbetween the secular world, the
secular Europe, and Rome wasn'tthat great Matter of fact.
The Holy Roman Emperor, thefirst one was Charlemagne, who
was elected and, you know, tookhis seat in Aachen, germany, in
800, right, right.
And really the Holy RomanEmpire continued until the
(16:35):
beginning of the 20th century,really, with the
Austro-Hungarian Empire, right?
So all these guys had a verygreat interest and back then,
that was before money, beforebanking the church owned a lot
of property and there was a lotof financial aspects to that.
And if you have money and youhave property, you have people
(16:55):
interested.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Well, even now, though, if you look at where the
church is financially, there'sa real concern.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Oh yeah, they're heavily—one of the major
problems.
They can't fund their pensionfund.
I think they're like 50% orless on their pension funding.
So they're worse than the stateof New Mexico the way they're
run.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Oh no, the state of New Mexico is richer than rich
actually, just the people of NewMexico are not, but the state
government is Well, yeah, yeahyeah, so I think the Vatican is
looking for $3 billion a year inoil revenue.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Yeah, exactly right.
Yeah, they get down to thePermian, they can do it.
That's right All right.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
I want to go through an article that you sent me
before we were going to talk,and I want to bring this up and
walk people through it because Ithink it's illustrative of, I
think, a Christian challengethat exists across faiths, and
that is the fact that where arewe going to be when it comes
time to stand up for whatChrist's kingdom is?
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Yeah, introduce that that article was written in the
Wall Street Journal last Friday.
The author is ArchbishopRetired Charles Chaput, the
first Native American archbishop.
He was the archbishop ofPhiladelphia and I think he was
the only non-cardinal ofPhiladelphia for maybe a century
(18:14):
or two, because he butted headswith Pope Francis.
Yeah, yeah, and there's othercardinals who are cardinals now
because they were his friend, tobe honest with you, but Charles
Chaput is an intellect of thefirst order.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, this was fascinating to me as I read the
article, and we won't read itall, but I want to read some
chunks of it to you because itjust applies to a bunch of
different things.
And for those believers wholive their life because they
follow Christ, this matters whathe says, our faith matters.
Yeah, yeah, what, yeah, what webelieve and faith isn't in the
(18:48):
doctrine of the catholic church,in christ's words are not
flexible per se amen you know.
So let me just give you a littlebit of this and see what you
think of it.
It says the glue of thecatholic identity is is what we
believe creed matters.
The nicene creed we recite atevery sunday mass, written 17
centuries ago and confirmed inan ecumenical council, is our
(19:10):
binding statement of faith, astatement of truth about the
world and human purpose.
Grounded in scripture, itprovides the framework for
Catholic teaching, which in turn, is the guidebook for a good
Catholic life.
Bad or ambiguous teachingcreates confusion, confusion,
divides and demoralizes, andthis is another couple of lines
(19:34):
here which I think werebrilliant.
This explains why the churchhas always paid close attention
to the content and applicationof its teachings.
Catholics believe that souls andeternity are at stake.
If so, confusion matters offaith, excuse me.
If so, confusion and matters offaith is lethal.
(19:54):
That is exactly, I think, theone thing Satan does.
It is his best trick, and it isconfusion.
That is what he tries tointroduce in every way possible.
He's Captain Gray Area.
Everything's a gray area ifyou're Satan, because if you can
create that gray area, you canchip away and it becomes lethal
(20:14):
to faith.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
I absolutely agree, and that ambiguity destroys, it,
eats away at what we believe.
Because, well, is that really?
And there's been some criticism, as you know, with Pope Francis
with ambiguity.
Some say he used an intentionalambiguity, but let me defend
him slightly in that regard.
You know, there's a famousquote from Yogi Berra, the great
(20:38):
number eight, the great Yankeecatcher.
He said I never said half thethings I said.
And, frankly, pope Francisnever said half the things he
said.
Let me give you an example.
Who am I to judge?
We've all heard that story.
Well, he was on an airplane andthe question was you know, if
there's a gay priest, you know,is he sinful?
(20:59):
What is it?
You know what's his status?
And Pope Francis said well,look, if a priest is gay and
he's living a good holy life andhe's advancing the work of the
Lord I'm paraphrasing grosslynow, okay, but this is the
essence of it and he's advancing, who am I to judge?
Well, that's very different.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
So the media Very, very just cutting it and just
saying who am I to judge?
So?
Speaker 4 (21:18):
the media took what he said and spun it into what
they wanted to hear, right, andwhat they wanted to hear was oh
yeah, who am I to judge who'sgay, not gay, homosexuality,
whatever, it's all gay.
And so they spun it and therewere other, and the problem is
he didn't correct it, right, youknow?
Yeah, I always say Holy Father,please correct that.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Right.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
I tried to.
I couldn't get through to him Ihear you.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
So let's keep going, because then he gets into the
legacy of Pope Francis, whichyou know.
A lot of us that come fromconservative Catholic families
you know have gotten an earfulfrom relatives about his legacy,
so here's a little bit of thatit says.
(22:03):
In that light, pope Francis'spontificate was a paradox.
It radiated mercy and devotionto the poor and appealing
informality and scripture basedrespect for the environment.
It seasoned those qualitieswith ill temper, loose talk,
autocratic style, disregard forcanon law and procedure and a
damaging lack of clarity onmatters of doctrine and practice
(22:24):
.
In the real world, authority isundermined by autocratic means
in its exercise.
Ambiguity inspires no one.
It creates frustration anddoubt.
Now, when you look at that andyou look at where Pope Francis
came from, his background, hedid not come from a country
where you get a chance to fightit out and to accomplish
(22:49):
whatever God has put in front ofyou to accomplish.
He came from a much differentbackground, which may inform
some of the way he handledhimself as pope.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Yeah, of course, argentinian.
As a matter of fact, I read orheard today in a video that they
said that Francis was the firstArgentinian pope and will be
the last.
So he grew up in a terriblepolitical climate between Juan
Perón and Peronism.
He was an autocrat.
(23:18):
He was a populist right, and attimes capitalist, at times
socialist, whatever he wanted tobe, whatever the mood struck
him.
And don't cry for me, Argentina,we're all kind of no vita you
know, and on the other hand, helived through at least three
military juntas, Like one ofthose juntas started the
Falklands War, the MalvinasIsland War, whatever.
So he's like, he's againsteverybody.
(23:40):
You know he doesn't like tojunta, obviously he doesn't like
to peron people.
And so, interesting, one of hisgood qualities certainly
beautiful qualities was hissimplicity.
There's a very picture of himriding in the train, a subway,
going to work.
He's a cardinal and he's in asubway, kind of a driver.
Then he became Pope and hedrives around in a Fiat or
(24:03):
something.
So those things are very good.
But yeah, I think, look, all ofus are informed by our
environment and especially howwe're growing up and what we've
seen.
You know, and certainly I thinkthat played a large part of it.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I really do, yeah, yeah, okay, and so then the next
paragraph on this thing to meis the heart of the matter for
all Christians across the world.
Quite frankly, it said, thecentral questions Catholics
finally face are these Do wereally believe in Jesus Christ?
Do we have an appetite for thedaily presence of God?
Do we believe that the churchspeaks a saving truth when it
(24:41):
teaches in Christ's name?
And if so, do we submitourselves to that truth or look
for loopholes and plausibleexcuses?
That is a tough paragraph.
Everything turns on the answer,because in our faith truly
grounds, or if our faith, excuseme, truly grounds and organizes
our lives, then the flaws inothers, even within the church
(25:05):
and its Pope, won't shake us.
The church will regain itspurity and focus because we will
regain ours.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Yeah, and I think I mean honestly this is something
that is a problem or can be aproblem, regardless of being
Catholic or Protestant.
I mean, I think, just in awhole, a church body and a
church and a faith.
If you decide that you're goingto chase after what the world
thinks is acceptable whichthere's a lot of pressure to do
(25:33):
that right, there's all thisculture that tells you that this
is okay and this should be okay.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Times have changed.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yeah, and women's rights, this, and you shake your
fist at that and we do this foreverybody and the goodwill and
it just gets twisted.
And I think what's reallyimportant for every Christian
regardless if you're Catholic,protestant, whatever is to read
your scripture and know yourscripture, because it's very
clear in Revelations when itsays that what looks like what's
supposed to be up is going tobe down, what's supposed to be.
(25:59):
You know you would say this isnot I'm paraphrasing clearly but
what is supposed to look, andyou say, no, this is not right.
The world will turn its on itshead and we'll be like confused,
because you know that is God isnot a God of confusion.
Yeah, God is not the God ofconfusion which we always tell
our kids.
If you're getting reallyconfused when you're trying to
make a decision on something, ifyou just can't seem to make up
your mind and you're praying,make sure you stay focused on
(26:23):
scripture and praying and getgodly wisdom when you're trying
to make a decision, and we tryto follow this ourselves.
If you're still confused,that's not coming from God.
That's really the deceptionthat I think that Satan wants
everything to be okay, Not evenjust gray area Mark.
It's like, oh, everything'sokay, Everything out there in
this world who am I to judge?
(26:43):
Everything is okay, and heavenforbid you stand up for what
Christ said is true, becausethen you're judgmental or you're
all kinds of things right, andthat's a hard place to be,
especially our youngergeneration.
What do you think?
Where do you see the youngergeneration in the Catholic faith
?
Do you see it growing?
Do you see it falling back?
Speaker 4 (27:02):
I mean, what do you see?
Yeah, there's something goingon right now.
There is a revival going on inthe Catholic Church.
Our numbers have stoppeddeclining Now we're on the up,
like in France, by somethinglike 0.48% or something.
Growth which is significant,and much of it is young people,
(27:27):
and I think I think it's mythought only I've never read
this but I think the wokemovement has helped us.
I think young people like yourdaughter have said this is crazy
.
You know the transgender thingis like.
By the way, francis saidconcerning the transgender
movement, he said it's an insultto the creator, it's an insult
(27:50):
to God, who made us male andfemale.
He created us.
So we're in a revival and theonly thing I know for sure it
wasn't started or supported bythe bishops and priests.
Right, it's got to be the HolySpirit.
That's what I'm thinking, and Ijust saw a video this morning
in France.
France had 10,000 adultsbaptized and confirmed to the
(28:10):
Catholic Church this past Easter10,000.
France we used to call Francethe church's eldest daughter
because of her beautifulCatholic history and many saints
.
Something's going on, yeah, andagain, I just give praise to
God, but you mentioned, whenyou're struggling for the right
thing to do Scripture absolutelyit's the Word of God and really
(28:32):
focus on Jesus.
Right, and Jesus did not try toadjust to the secular world.
You know Right, he only lastedthree years in ministry.
Had Jesus tried to adjust tothe secular world of his time,
he'd have died of old age and wewouldn't be saved.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
That's true.
No, it's a really, really goodpoint.
All right, so we want to gowith one other thing here, and
it's just one of the lastparagraphs, and this I thought
was also pretty wise it saysthere are no magic beans to
regrow the health of our church,no quick fix reforms to
problems we behaved ourselvesinto.
We need clear teaching.
We need unambiguous truthpreached to us with joy and
(29:13):
confidence, and then we need toact on it.
Female priests, married clergyand all other tired
prescriptions of the 1960s won'topen the vocational floodgates
or miraculously cleanse ourclergy from sins embedded deeply
in our culture, or make gospelmore popular or capture the
imagination of our people.
Easing access to the sacramentswill achieve nothing with
(29:39):
people who don't grasp the needfor them in the first place, and
ignoring a culture of sexualconfusion and dysfunction in the
name of misguided mercy is asurrender to and not an
acceptance concordant with theworld.
So do not go to the world.
The church should stand on itsChrist-centered beliefs and let
(30:02):
the world come to you, andyou're actually really talking
about that happening right now.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
Yeah, charles Chaput.
By the way, thank you God forCharles Chaput.
What a wonderful, articulateman.
Yeah, very sick.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
It was great to read that.
By the way, it's in the WallStreet Journal.
If you want to check it out andyou spell Chaput, you spell it
C-H-A-P-U-T correct.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Yeah, it was great.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
It was great, so if you get a chance to read it, you
know, interesting along thoselines about young priest.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
There's been some studies done in the last 10
years of the ordinans, those whoare ordained, you know, in 25,
24, et cetera, more or less.
We get so many ordinations ayear and they have ticked
upwards a year.
And they're ticked upwards andthe question was how do you
describe yourself, father?
You're 23, 25, 27, 30 year oldpriest to be a progressive,
(30:55):
liberal, traditional,conservative, moderate.
Out of well over 1,000 prieststo be that were questioned, zero
described themselves as liberal, progressive.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Zero.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
The great majority described themselves as
traditional conservative.
We're seeing that, believe me.
We're seeing this in our ownarchdiocese and I know a lot of
bishops are going crazy becausethe bishops tend to be, in many
cases, quite progressive liberalRight and they're getting these
young guys in.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
They're not, they're on fire Right, right.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
And it's unfolding right in front of our eyes in
every diocese in the UnitedStates.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Well, and even on the Protestant side we did a story
on this not very long ago wherethere's this huge resurgence
with the youth, like they'reattending church more often than
their parents, right so theyounger generation are saying,
yeah, they want to go back tofaith, they want to go back to
(31:58):
something where there isgrounding and knowledge and
wisdom.
And I think, ultimately, whenyou draw close to God, I mean I
think you can't help but know inyour gut like this is the peace
I'm seeking, this is what I'mlooking for, because the world's
crazy it is.
It's great If you sit aroundand try to live your life
without God.
It's kind of what we told ourkids is, like we can't tell you
to have our faith.
You got to find it yourself.
But this world is a pretty hardplace to be without God's love
(32:21):
and without him centering yourlife.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
And without faith.
Remember the song.
You're too young.
What's it all about, alfie?
Is it only for the momentyou're mine?
Did that ring a bell?
No, what's it from?
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Not at all.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Do tell us it was about love and it was a movie,
alfie, I think it was called ohAlfie, okay Is it only for the
moment.
You're mine.
Well, the reason I think ofthat is what's life all about If
you only you know?
Psalm 90 says you live to be 70or 80.
For those who are strong, mostof those are emptiness and pain.
Now the psalmist was having abad day when he wrote that.
(32:55):
But that's it.
I know when you know a personalexperience of deep spirituality
for me when my mom and dad diedseparately, many years in
between.
But I remember when my mom diedin 1997 and I looked at her
body, I heard this she was deadand I looked at her.
I said where are you?
Where are you?
I loved her so much and there'sno way she wasn't somewhere.
(33:18):
Yeah, you know, and of course, Ihad faith at the time, and.
But if this is all there is, ifthis is what it's about, oh my
goodness it's sad.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
And there's something in us, there's a connection
that needs connection withintimacy, divine intimacy.
It's just look, every people ofthe world have a religious
experience.
I don't think there's anypurely atheistic people in the
world, native by tribe orwhatever right, they're
different, but they have this,this need.
(33:51):
So, and I think the youngpeople are, are, are they want?
You know?
Interesting, some of them are.
They don't care if they get adriver's license they don't care
about money.
Yeah Right, they don't careabout money, yeah, right, yeah,
you know, and these are they'revery interesting.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
I think gen z is really interesting to me because
part of it you you kind of lookat and go, uh, I, we're in
trouble you know the planet's introuble.
We're in trouble.
I don't know what's going tohappen.
And then part of me is like,wow, okay, I'm kind of impressed
with you guys you know, listenanytime you're down on the young
people.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
Just go to Dion's Pizza.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
And look at those kids.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Oh, Ava used to work there.
Ava was a that was.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
her first job was at Dion's or Chick-fil-A.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, they're very nice, we'regoing to be okay.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Yeah, that's a really good point.
It's a good point.
Okay, let's go through.
I want to go through.
A couple of these are kind offunny.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Oh, let's do this first one.
Okay, I'll talk about it.
This one goes against you beingCatholic.
I'm not sure you're allowed totalk about this first one.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Oh no, I have a very strong opinion on this.
Okay, well, get your opinion,but this is on the.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
It's the holy roll of the dice, right?
So this?
Speaker 2 (34:58):
is Polly market are basically betting on the front
runners.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Okay, so far there's been $18 million has been bet on
this so far, maybe I don't evencare.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
I got to have Pierre Batista Pizzaballa or whatever.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Are you kidding me?
I mean, this is unreal.
He showed this guy's name.
I'm like this is a joke.
I'm like, is this the BabylonBee?
Like, is this Babylon Beemaking fun of him?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Look at Pierre Batista Pizzaballa, pizzaballa.
What do I have to do to get himto be the next pope?
He's Italian, I'm in.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
He's a good candidate .
Yeah, he may be too young he'sonly like 62, I think.
Okay, they don't want a guy for30 years.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Is that the deal?
Is that why we're looking forhim?
So kind of the opposite of whatwe look for in a president,
exactly, you know I mean,benedict handed over.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
He ended up handing over the papacy.
So yeah, he was alive whenFrancis took over.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
So you can hand it over.
Right, I'm not telling father.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
Well before that.
It was hundreds of years beforeit happened.
So I didn't like it.
I liked Benedict.
I thought he was a wonderfulman.
I think the financial problemjust buried him.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
He said I can't do this, it's got to be a lot of
stress on one guy to be incharge of all this across the
whole world.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
That's why you need Pete Zabala to do it.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
Listen, let me tell you about Pete Zabala.
All right, yeah, bring him backup again, abe.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Let's get him back up again.
There we are, okay.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
Where is he, there, he is hey Pysak yeah.
No, that's actually.
I've never seen his namespelled.
Oh, the pizza ball, great, yeah, he's young.
He's the Latin patriarch ofJerusalem.
Okay, he's done a hard job.
Yeah, right, yes, as a matterof fact, not Fatah, but the
(36:44):
Palestinian Authority.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Oh geez the PLO yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
Well, yeah, the Palestinian Authority today.
Oh yeah yeah, but he's aFranciscan multilingual, he
speaks like everything.
He's a biblical scholar, heloves the Bible and he's
courageous, he's strong.
So, yeah, I think he's probably.
You know, you look at it, he'sprobably very he'd be great,
(37:06):
except maybe to you, maybe nexttime, maybe next time.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Now, all these people that are up here, do you see
any of these guys really being?
Because what you said earlierwas you know, you think you're
going in and there's like some,you're hedging your bets, no
doubt about it, but at the samepoint, it may be none of these
guys.
Right, that's right.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
It could honestly be a complete unknown.
Yeah, francis would not havebeen on that list years ago,
right, but Parolin was Secretaryof State and his odds probably
have gone up in the last weekbecause of his dealings with the
People's Republic of China withthat secret deal.
And China has embarrassedVatican after Francis died by
(37:45):
appointing a bishop to a seethat has a bishop approved by.
So there's some shenanigansgoing on and he was the
architect of the deal.
Tangle is apparently they callhim Francis II because he's
loving and kind and he's veryaffable.
He very emotionally, cries alot.
He leaves the heart and he'squite considered liberal
(38:06):
progressive in terms of theFrancis model.
Zupi, I don't know anythingabout Pisa Bala I mentioned.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Erdo is Hungarian, oh okay, yeah, he looks very
unhappy in that picture rightthere.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
That's kind of his persona, apparently.
He doesn't say much.
He's absolutely brilliant andTurkson's been around say much.
He's absolutely brilliant andTurkson's been around.
He was actually considered veryhighly the last time.
He's from Ghana.
As you see, there's also twoAfricans, Sarah, who's 80, and
another one from the Congo, whoare very strong candidates.
(38:36):
And I'm interested in a guyfrom Sweden.
I think his name is.
Aurelius which sounds like aRoman emperor.
Speaker 5 (38:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
And Sweden's a tiny country with tiny, tiny Catholic
minority.
So it's interesting.
You know, you read about it.
It's kind of fun.
It's like who are my draftpicks?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Right?
No, it's your question, I meanyou can actually bet on it.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
We should have that's what I'm saying we should have
had the conclave draft I know.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
So I do want to show you this too.
It's kind of funny.
So now, obviously, with eachnew papacy, the world changes so
much.
So with the internet we havenow it's it's pretty funny.
So what they've done is they'vecreated a very unique thing
which is such a European thingto do, which is they created a,
a, a draft of sorts for the someof the candidates.
(39:22):
If it were a formula one race,okay, so we're going to go ahead
.
Yeah, so we, yeah.
Well, here's the audio on thistoo, ava.
So this is it.
It's conclave 2025.
If it were formula one, verygood, there he is, so, anyway,
(40:05):
you can see that's pretty funny.
Now obviously that's all AIgenerated right.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
It's a lot of fun really.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
No, it's amazing.
So you just see some of thiskind of a crossing of different
generations and in a differentworld.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Yeah, and we should probably give some credit to Abs
Idea.
I think that's who put that out.
They put that out on Instagram,so we want to make sure we give
them full credit for that oh no, that was definitely not us no,
we did not do that, so we uh,we do not get credit for that.
Okay, let's go back.
We talked a little bit aboutthis in the last show.
Trump coming up uh, you know,he they, the white house or
somebody at the white house putstogether the meme of him
(40:40):
dressed up as the pope.
He's having some fun with it.
I kind of came to the defense.
I mean, as the non-Catholic atthe table, I thought this was a
little wrong timing.
I know that's the only time hecould do it, which was Mark's
defense.
They're like well, when else ishe going to do it?
Like?
he's not going to do it whenthere is a Pope right.
So and I just thought, I don'tknow, I just felt like his
(41:00):
timing was a little off.
So do you think that this wasoffensive at all, or do you
think that all Catholics thoughtthis was pretty funny?
Speaker 4 (41:06):
Well, you know, when I saw it, I didn't think of Pope
Francis being deceased.
I thought who's the next pope?
Right, and that's how it wasintended.
Listen, I thought it wasabsolutely hilarious.
Okay, as a matter of fact, Ihad a funeral shortly after Pope
Francis died, and I had afuneral shortly after Pope
Francis died and I met a formerparishioner I knew very well.
I hadn't seen her in years.
Hey, father, how about apicture?
(41:27):
I took some pictures and thatafternoon she sent me an AI of
me as Pope.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
So this is the thing to do.
I thought it was hilarious, sotoday.
Speaker 4 (41:38):
Robert Barron, one of my heroes, bishop Robert Barron
, from Chicago.
Originally.
He was asked about that.
He said well, worst case,probably bad taste.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
But I don't even see it as bad taste.
I don't either.
It's one of the arguments Ialways make when I say something
offensive to Christy.
I'm like God gave me this senseof humor.
He knows.
I'm going to use it you don'thand me a weapon without
thinking I'm not going to firethe gun.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
As a matter of fact for the listeners, we had this
discussion before we begantaping and you said let me see
that picture of you as the Pope,and I told him forget it.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
I was going to put it on there.
I was going to put it on there.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
We'll put it up on this, and then you know what
happens now.
Then we're all talking aboutyou.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Okay, so talk about uncomfortable.
So Trump is at a pressconference yesterday with Roger
Goodell, the head of the NFL.
Now the funny thing about thisis Goodell is standing next to
him, and then Trump is askedabout the Pope picture.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Yeah, they're doing a press conference, by the way,
about the draft coming to DC.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yeah, In a couple of years he thinks he's talking
about.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
And then he gets fireballed, this question about
hey, the meme on the Pope, anddo you think that it offended
people?
Speaker 2 (42:41):
And you know, like you said, Goodell looks like he
wants to vomit halfway through,but then, but then trump keeps
going after him.
So so here was here's trump'sreaction on the reporter trying
to call him out on it.
Speaker 5 (42:53):
Some catholics were not so happy about the image of
you looking like the good tellslike oh I see.
You mean they can't take a joke.
You don't mean the catholics,you mean the fake news media.
The Catholics loved it.
I had nothing to do with it.
Somebody made up a picture ofme dressed like the Pope and
they put it out on the internet.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
That's not me that did it.
I have no idea where it camefrom.
Speaker 5 (43:21):
Maybe it was AI, but I know nothing about it.
I just saw it last evening.
Actually, my wife thought itwas cute.
She said isn't that nice?
Actually, I would not be ableto be married, though that would
be a lot.
To the best of my knowledge,popes aren't big on getting
married.
No no no, I think it's a fakenews media that you know they're
fakers.
My question, though, sir, wasabout the fact that it was put
(43:44):
out on the White House account,Even though it was AI-generated.
it was a joke, it was a meme.
Does it at all diminish thesubstance of the official White
House account to have it go outon the app?
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Give me a break.
Speaker 5 (43:57):
It was just.
Somebody did it in fun.
It's fine, you have to have alittle fun, don't you?
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Okay, there we go.
Classic Trump it's fine.
Have to have a little fun,don't you?
Okay, there we go.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
So classic trump and goodell just wanting just like
please transport me out of here.
Yeah, please, let's not talkabout this.
Uh, when I'm up here talkingabout the draft, please don't do
that.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
But I thought he was gonna have a biden moment and
look at his watch yeah he's likecan we go?
Can we go, is it time?
Speaker 3 (44:18):
to go all right, well , I did send this to you.
To you mark as a joke, this,this next little picture.
I found this one on the-.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
So, speaking of Trump being the so we have a new Pope
, and then we see orange smokeeverybody coming out, just for
those of you listening.
Speaker 4 (44:31):
Hey, it's good times, so you never know you never
know, but okay, so you're Let mesay I sent that picture of the
orange smoke to my-.
I have 12 first in Ireland anda hundred and thousand second
and third and fourth cousins.
That's where most of my familystill lives.
And when I said they didn'tthink Trump, they thought of an
orange man being elected.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Oh yeah, so it had kind of a double.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting, ian Paisley.
So it depends on where you live, I guess, how you interpret
that one Exactly.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
So where are you?
So tell us.
So you're retired, sort of, butnot really.
You're still going out.
So what's the next?
What are the next few monthslook like for you?
Speaker 4 (45:16):
Well, let me see.
I've got a couple of weddings.
I've got a change of commandceremony in Fort Bliss.
One of my former personagescommanded a tank battalion for
two years and he's giving thatup and becoming the Division G3
and then on to the War College.
I want to be there for him.
As you know, I'm retiredmilitary and I have two weddings
.
I have a funeral later in earlyJune in Arkansas in Conway,
(45:38):
arkansas for a formerparishioner.
I just came back last week froma wedding in Athens, texas.
It was great to see oldparishioners.
I love them dearly.
So when I retired I had athousand contacts on my iPhone
and they all have my number, soI get a lot of calls.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
That's great, and are you still filling in?
Speaker 4 (45:55):
Oh yeah, I have mass Friday at the VA and Saturday at
the VA and next Friday andSaturday again at the Veterans
Hospital in the afternoon.
So yeah, I stay busy.
I want to celebrate Mass onSunday with an assembly.
I often celebrate Mass in myhouse, but it's not the same.
I love to preach.
So yeah, I stay very busy andit's good.
(46:17):
I have a wedding later inOctober in Long Island.
Oh, look at that so yeah, so itkeeps me going.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
That's great, I'm 79.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
I'll be 79 shortly.
By the way, I'm 14 days youngerthan Trump and he was born
three miles from me.
Oh whoa.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (46:33):
In Queens, in Queens.
So that's where the resemblanceends.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yeah, it's in the water.
There, you guys, we were lowermiddle class.
Yeah, well, yeah, he was alittle different.
Well, thanks for giving us allthe information.
I don't know, we just kind offelt like this was something we
wanted to talk about.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Well, and a lot of our.
We mentioned that we were goingto have you come on and then we
started getting viewers askingwhen is it?
When is he coming?
When's Father coming on?
And you have some fans outthere that have written us to
tell you hi and hello and passon their good wishes.
So we thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4 (47:04):
Well, my pleasure, and you know it's great to laugh
.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah, no, it's good, joy is a gift of the Holy Spirit
.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
That's right, that's right, no question.
So is sarcasm, if you ask me,yeah?
Speaker 2 (47:13):
well, they go hand in hand.
So thanks very much, Father.
We appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
On Sunday You've been listening to the no Doubt About
it podcast.
We hope you've enjoyed the show.
We know we had a blast.
Make sure to like, rate andreview.
We'll be back soon but in themeantime you can find us on
Instagram and Facebook at noDoubt About it podcast.
No doubt about it.
(47:41):
The no Doubt About it podcastis a Choose Adventure Media
production.
See you next time on.
No Doubt About it podcast is aChoose Adventure Media
production.
See you next time on no DoubtAbout it.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
There is no doubt about it.
all right here we go.
This is big time on the noabout not a no doubt about a
podcast.
Yes, father john carney joiningus because it's conclave season
, baby, and we're gonna talkabout what's going on this is
gonna need some good graphicswith conclave season.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Oh, I know, believe me we're gonna have.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
So we're gonna go through what's going on with it.
It because we think there'sgoing to be an episode again
about faith with Father John welove talking to him about it and
because the conclave gotstarted on Wednesday, first vote
.
By the way, black smokeeverybody.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Black smoke.
We got a little bit of video ofthat Actually the video is up,
father John.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
John, you've seen the video.
Yes, but at this point, so far,we do not have a pope.
Not a surprise, though, right,father?
I mean initially.
Um, as far as is what you wouldexpect, this is not unusual at
all.
Just one vote for today.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
It would have been shocking had that smoke been
white yeah, absolutely yeah, sotwo, two or three days is
considered kind of max at thistime so tomorrow or friday there
should be a uh, a pope elected.
Okay, well, we'll talk aboutall that and kind of max at this
time.
So tomorrow or Friday thereshould be a a prop elected.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Okay, well, we'll.
We'll talk about all that andkind of go through some of the
humor that's involved in this aswell, and we'll talk about the
church in general and why it isChristy's a Protestant.
I grew up Catholic and kind ofstraddled both worlds.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Now we're not finished with you yet.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh, no, no, no Believe me, I still absolutely
consider myself a Catholicfather and my parents right now
they should be cheering into thephone.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Oh, I'm sure they're listening to this and they would
be.
I mean, too bad they're nothere because they would be like
let's put the pressure on Markright now.
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I absolutely still very much identify with the
church and love it.
So we're going to get into allthis, but first the preparation.
So you know, at the Vaticanover the past couple of weeks
right I think right afterFrancis's death they started
preparing and I didn't reallyrealize this.
Like they put up the smokestack, they put the whole deal up and
going.
I guess if you're Francis, youdon't want them doing that ahead
(01:53):
of time, right, you're like heylook, listen, let's not let's
not jump the gun here.
But.
But they did that and actuallythe Vatican put out some videos
saying, ok, we're getting allthe cardinals ready and
everything else.
So for people who aren'tfamiliar with what's basically
happening here right now andwith the Catholic Church, tell
us a little bit about thisprocess from a 10,000-foot level
(02:14):
.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Yeah, there'll be 133 cardinals age 79 or younger who
will vote for the next pope.
There were additional cardinalsAll the cardinals of the world
just about were in Rome thispast week but 133 will vote.
Now it's interesting thecardinal doesn't have a place in
the hierarchy of the church.
People think that Monsignorsdon't either.
(02:37):
It's just honorific.
But the cardinals have two jobs.
One is to advise the pope whenhe's living, obviously, and the
second one is to elect a newPope after the death of a Pope.
That's it, that's their twojobs.
And there are again, worldwide,I guess, about 200 cardinals.
Many of them are quite aged,you know, in their 90s, but
still pretty active in somecases.
(02:58):
So they come to Rome after thedeath, they go to the funeral.
There's, I think, a nine-daymourning period after the
funeral.
We like nine days, novenas, etcetera and then they meet and
during those nine days they havemeetings and discussions and
they can give what they callinterventions, where they get up
(03:18):
and they make a case, not for aperson so much, but what the
issues are and how we should belooking.
And of course they pray for theguidance of the Holy Spirit to
give them to change their heartsand to elect a pope that Jesus
would be pleased with, after themodel of his first pope, st
Peter.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Now interesting.
I mean this is completely alittle off topic.
But I also heard, I read on BBCtoday that a lot of these
cardinals that are in townthey're also hitting like their
favorite restaurants that areclose to the Vatican.
Because once they go into thisconclave then it's locked down
and it is food is brought in forthem and serve you know, create
or made for them there.
They are not walking back outto these favorite restaurants.
(04:01):
So they said it's kind of thisflood where you see all these
Cardinals hitting their favoritespots right before the conclave
.
So I thought that was kind offun.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Yeah Well, they love to eat.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Yeah, like all of us.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
But I don't think they'll starve in the conclave
either.
Anyone who goes hungry in Italyis a lost soul.
You know, I did read though too.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I know this is kind of nerdy, but I read that they
at least back in the day, theysaid you couldn't have ravioli,
chicken or napkins because theywere worried that they would be
passing messages.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Secrets in the ravioli.
Secrets in the ravioli so.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I thought.
I don't know if that's stillhappening today, but apparently
you know, hundreds of years agoit was like there were certain
foods that you could not bringinto the conclave.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
They do have wine, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Oh yeah, so you want to talk about trading secrets,
just pour enough wine.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Well, also, if you like spirits, the Cardinals
bring their own bottles ofJameson Irish whiskey.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Oh, there you go.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
We Catholics are allowed to do that.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Oh yes, Protestants, that's a big no-no.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
That's why you guys have some of my best drinking
buddies were Baptists.
Oh, I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, Don't believe.
Don't believe.
All of us Don't have a cocktailfrom time to time?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So we have the one vote today and then we have a
little bit of a schedule so wecan show you what that looks
like and what four votestomorrow Is.
That is that right?
They'll?
They'll vote early in themorning and then explain this a
little bit.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
I expect probably two votes in the morning, two in
the evening, four votes.
I'm not sure.
I think they can take more ifthey wish, but it's two votes in
the morning, two in the evening.
So it'll be four votes tomorrowand four votes Friday.
If it's not decided by Friday,that's day three.
I believe that's considered daythree, the Friday or Saturday.
But after day three they get a24-hour break where they can
(05:44):
meet together and talk offline,if you will.
They're still under conclaveand, by the way I mentioned, the
word conclave has veryinteresting history.
It means with the key, but,paraphrasing it, it means to be
locked in.
And so they're in there,although they're in a Sistine
(06:05):
Chapel, but they're going to theSanta Maria guest house for
meals and sleeping.
They're very simpleaccommodations no phones, no
radios, no TV, no newspapersthose kinds of things, yeah,
interesting, okay, in thistimeframe.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
It's got some history behind it recently, especially
over the past 30 years or ourlifetimes.
Really it's been pretty quick.
Take a look here.
We've got some history behindit recently, especially over the
past 30 years or our lifetimes.
Really it's been pretty quick.
Take a look here.
We've got a graphic on it andif we go back and we look sorry,
ave, next one, uh, just keepgoing right there, okay.
So as we look here, we go backto francis, obviously a couple
of days.
Benedict was similar, john paulwas similar.
(06:39):
Uh, pious the seventh was twodays.
So again, you have to go back aways to even get to say four
days or even beyond that.
So it definitely in recentmemory has been a bit quicker.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Yeah, pius XII actually.
Yeah, yeah, that was 1958.
He ruled from 39 to 58.
Yeah, it's quicker.
They want it to be relativelyquick because it's a sign of
unity.
If they go forever and ever andever, they say, well, they're
in there fighting, my goodness,the Catholic churches and
(07:13):
disarray internally and the like.
So it's to their advantage, toour advantage, that they decide
quickly, and sometimes, it'sinteresting there may be some
frontrunners early on and theyjust kind of disappear.
As a matter of fact, that wasthe case with John Paul II, St
John Paul II, this fantastichuman being right.
Him and Ronald Reagan.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
We love him and he was kind of an alternate
candidate and he came out laterin the voting process, so it's
interesting.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, Is there a kind of thought process that certain
areas of the world it would bea shock?
Would it be a shock to see anAmerican Pope, for example?
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Yes, I think so.
Yes, Maybe that's the only areaof the world would be really a
shock.
And you know, Robert Barron,Bishop Barron mentioned this
recently.
Look, America has got theworld's greatest military, the
greatest economy.
You know, we're the big guy andthe last thing the church needs
is an American pope, right?
I mean, he'll have a strikeagainst them immediately because
(08:16):
they'll say, well, look, it wasAmericans.
You know, people who don't likeus anyway will criticize that.
So that would be an absolutetotal shock us anyway, will
criticize that.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So that would be an absolute total shock.
And did you think Pope Francisnot a huge fan of the?
What was his issue with America?
Because it's well known that itjust didn't seem like there was
a connection there at all.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Yeah, there's a lot of things that are well known.
There's no question in my mind,anybody who knows what's going
on, that there are divisionswithin the church and that there
were divisions Perhaps they'vealways been there Pretty acute
right now.
The left, the right, liberal,progressive versus conservative,
traditional Latin mass All ofthese issues are on the front
(08:55):
burner today and yeah, it'sgenerally.
I mean, I believe Francis hadno particular liking for the
United States, always quick tocriticize any aspect of
capitalism he didn't like, andhe was very, he wanted to be
very close to China, the PRC,people's Republic of China.
What in the world is that about?
(09:16):
Well, there's an undergroundchurch.
China has a population of 1.4billion people, so we're
interested in it.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I guess I was thinking more.
I mean the PRC, like Well,they're the right, it's.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
the PRC is a dictatorship of Xi Jinping Right
you know, it's not evencommunist.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
So what is the snuggling up there?
Speaker 4 (09:33):
I mean, well, the underground church has existed
for centuries, and I thinkFrancis wanted to let that
underground church come to thefront, and so he made a deal
negotiated by his secretary ofstate, cardinal Parolin, pietro
Parolin.
He made a deal in 2018 with asecret deal, which you know.
(09:54):
Transparency is reallyimportant.
If our church hasn't learnedthat in light of the sexual
abuse scandal, we're never goingto learn anything.
You know.
Candle, we're never going tolearn anything, you know.
So a secret deal in 2018, itwas re-signed in 2024, last year
that the PRC would have my term, a chop on who we name bishop,
(10:16):
and that's, I think, unheard of.
I think maybe Napoleon did that, but it's really, yeah, really
virtually unheard of, and-.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Because who normally, so sorry, who normally picks
the bishops, then Is it thechurch itself the Pope?
Speaker 4 (10:30):
picks every bishop, the Pope picks every bishop.
Okay, and each country has aPapal Nuncio the ambassador to
the United States, the PapalNuncio Pierre Christophe, who's
from a Frenchman, who's our Papin Uncio currently.
They come up with the list andthey say this guy's good, this
guy.
And then when they getpossibility they ask all the
(10:53):
bishops, give me a name or two,a priest that would be a good
bishop.
And then they really vet themvery hard.
They send maybe a dozen lettersout, secret letters to other
priests in that diocese and sayis this a good guy?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Yeah, sure, checking them.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
I happen to have a little personal experience in
that regard.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah, you do.
Well, so why for people who arenot Catholic and maybe just
Christians or whatever, whateverfaith they may be?
Why is this so important?
Because to me it is important.
I've always felt like theseconclaves are a huge deal.
I think the Catholic Church isreally important to the faith of
(11:30):
the planet.
So tell me why.
The case you would make to sayyou know someone of another,
maybe Christian faith, that says, okay, maybe see it in passing,
but like, well, I'm notCatholic, so but it does matter.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
It matters a lot.
Yeah, there's a saying wherePeter is, there is the church.
You know, Peter was the firstpope.
He was selected to lead thechurch by Jesus himself.
We were talking about that alittle while ago there, jesus
once asked his disciples well,who do people say that I am?
And one of the apostles saidwell, some say you're Elijah,
(12:04):
others say you're one of theapostles.
Said well, some say you'reElijah, others say you're one of
the prophets.
And then he looked at Peter andsaid who do you say I am?
And Peter, he said, actuallysaid Simon bar Jonah, simon, son
of John, who do you say I am?
And he said you are the Christ,the son of the living God.
And Jesus responded no man hastold you that, but, my heavenly
father, you are Peter.
(12:24):
He gave him a name change,which means mission change.
You know, abram became AbrahamSarah et cetera.
So he gave him a mission change.
He said you are Peter, and theword Peter means rock, and upon
this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not
prevail against it.
Whatever you bind on earth willbe bound in heaven.
Whatever you loose on earthwill be loose in heaven.
I think it's Matthew 21.
So, loose in heaven, I thinkit's Matthew 21.
(12:49):
So it's clearly a scripture andso that's important.
He is the head of the churchand his mission.
You know a lot of the talk andI've read a lot of.
You've read a lot.
You know people who don'taren't Christians, have read a
lot.
It's interesting.
A lot of the talk has been kindof secular.
They're looking at this througha secular lens, you know, which
is understandable.
But the prime consideration ofwho is selected as pope should
be he who can best declare Jesusas Lord, son of the living God,
(13:14):
who took on flesh and died androse again and wants us to join
him in eternal life in the realmof heaven.
Right, so that's his number one.
He has to be an evangelist.
However, he does it.
And secondly, he's the image.
Again, where Peter is, there isthe church and so he is the
(13:34):
image.
There's 1.4 billion Catholicsand when we look to him, we look
to who he's our leader.
We do that with the president,the prime minister, but really
with the pope, so it's very,he's our.
I don't know if we do that witha president, the prime minister
, but really with the Pope, soit's very, very important.
And also, I think there's afascination.
We were chatting before aboutthese various elections.
That one took three years.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Yeah, so this one I've pulled up this was, I
thought, was so crazy.
It said the longest one inhistory.
I pulled this from an article.
They were kind of bitter aboutan Italian pope or an Italian
man and a French man and theywere kind of going back and
forth and it had been going onfor almost three years.
And so to break that deadlock,this was in 1268, I believe.
Hold on, let me find the yearyou went back 1268, okay, so a
(14:21):
long time ago right.
Long long time ago.
This was in a town near Rome,but since they could not make up
their minds right, they brickedup the windows, they gave them
only bread and water and theytook the roof off of the top of
the building so they could becloser to the Holy Spirit.
Okay, that's what they claimed,right?
And they basically did thewhole thing.
You were talking about theconclave.
(14:42):
That's where that became, wherethey said we're putting a key
in, you're not leaving now, andso you need to make a decision.
And based on that three-yearexperience, the next guy that
was named Pope which is he wasPope Gregory, I guess, pope
Gregory X he said we're notdoing this again.
So he imposed like new ruleswith this conclave and said you
know, we're going to have somestrict rules so this thing
(15:03):
doesn't turn into a grease firefor three years again.
You know exactly what you'resaying, because it is an image
of unity Are you guys on thesame page?
Are the Cardinals on the samepage, or is this?
You know, like you, just youknow, and since we don't know,
right, it's a big mystery to allof us on what's happening.
You know, and I think I wouldask you that is what can you
(15:23):
share about the conclave, likewhat do you know of that happens
other than the voting?
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Oh, I don't know anything, nothing, it's all like
.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
You have to be a cardinal to get in and find out
the secret.
Knock and everything.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Yeah, there are again 133 cardinal electors, and they
don't know, they don't know,they don't know, and you know
they've been politicking.
And just to clarify, when wehear the word politics, it's
pejorative, you know yeah rightRight.
The word politics is not bad.
I had a degree in politicalscience.
Okay, it's the art ofcompromise, that's one
(15:57):
definition of politics.
So yeah, there's a lot of dirtyshenanigans that go on in
politics.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Mark Ronchetti probably could mention a few.
Yes, we know a couple inpolitics.
Mark Ronchetti probably couldmention a few.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Yes, we know a couple .
Speaker 4 (16:09):
We know a few.
But yeah, but you know, yearsago, like in the 13th century,
as you mentioned, the separationbetween the secular world, the
secular Europe, and Rome wasn'tthat great Matter of fact.
The Holy Roman Emperor, thefirst one was Charlemagne, who
was elected and, you know, tookhis seat in Aachen, germany, in
800, right, right.
And really the Holy RomanEmpire continued until the
(16:35):
beginning of the 20th century,really, with the
Austro-Hungarian Empire, right?
So all these guys had a verygreat interest and back then,
that was before money, beforebanking the church owned a lot
of property and there was a lotof financial aspects to that.
And if you have money and youhave property, you have people
(16:55):
interested.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Well, even now, though, if you look at where the
church is financially, there'sa real concern.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Oh yeah, they're heavily—one of the major
problems.
They can't fund their pensionfund.
I think they're like 50% orless on their pension funding.
So they're worse than the stateof New Mexico the way they're
run.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Oh no, the state of New Mexico is richer than rich
actually, just the people of NewMexico are not, but the state
government is Well, yeah, yeahyeah, so I think the Vatican is
looking for $3 billion a year inoil revenue.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Yeah, exactly right.
Yeah, they get down to thePermian, they can do it.
That's right All right.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
I want to go through an article that you sent me
before we were going to talk,and I want to bring this up and
walk people through it because Ithink it's illustrative of, I
think, a Christian challengethat exists across faiths, and
that is the fact that where arewe going to be when it comes
time to stand up for whatChrist's kingdom is?
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Yeah, introduce that that article was written in the
Wall Street Journal last Friday.
The author is ArchbishopRetired Charles Chaput, the
first Native American archbishop.
He was the archbishop ofPhiladelphia and I think he was
the only non-cardinal ofPhiladelphia for maybe a century
(18:14):
or two, because he butted headswith Pope Francis.
Yeah, yeah, and there's othercardinals who are cardinals now
because they were his friend, tobe honest with you, but Charles
Chaput is an intellect of thefirst order.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, this was fascinating to me as I read the
article, and we won't read itall, but I want to read some
chunks of it to you because itjust applies to a bunch of
different things.
And for those believers wholive their life because they
follow Christ, this matters whathe says, our faith matters.
Yeah, yeah, what, yeah, what webelieve and faith isn't in the
(18:48):
doctrine of the catholic church,in christ's words are not
flexible per se amen you know.
So let me just give you a littlebit of this and see what you
think of it.
It says the glue of thecatholic identity is is what we
believe creed matters.
The nicene creed we recite atevery sunday mass, written 17
centuries ago and confirmed inan ecumenical council, is our
(19:10):
binding statement of faith, astatement of truth about the
world and human purpose.
Grounded in scripture, itprovides the framework for
Catholic teaching, which in turn, is the guidebook for a good
Catholic life.
Bad or ambiguous teachingcreates confusion, confusion,
divides and demoralizes, andthis is another couple of lines
(19:34):
here which I think werebrilliant.
This explains why the churchhas always paid close attention
to the content and applicationof its teachings.
Catholics believe that souls andeternity are at stake.
If so, confusion matters offaith, excuse me.
If so, confusion and matters offaith is lethal.
(19:54):
That is exactly, I think, theone thing Satan does.
It is his best trick, and it isconfusion.
That is what he tries tointroduce in every way possible.
He's Captain Gray Area.
Everything's a gray area ifyou're Satan, because if you can
create that gray area, you canchip away and it becomes lethal
(20:14):
to faith.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
I absolutely agree, and that ambiguity destroys, it,
eats away at what we believe.
Because, well, is that really?
And there's been some criticism, as you know, with Pope Francis
with ambiguity.
Some say he used an intentionalambiguity, but let me defend
him slightly in that regard.
You know, there's a famousquote from Yogi Berra, the great
(20:38):
number eight, the great Yankeecatcher.
He said I never said half thethings I said.
And, frankly, pope Francisnever said half the things he
said.
Let me give you an example.
Who am I to judge?
We've all heard that story.
Well, he was on an airplane andthe question was you know, if
there's a gay priest, you know,is he sinful?
(20:59):
What is it?
You know what's his status?
And Pope Francis said well,look, if a priest is gay and
he's living a good holy life andhe's advancing the work of the
Lord I'm paraphrasing grosslynow, okay, but this is the
essence of it and he's advancing, who am I to judge?
Well, that's very different.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
So the media Very, very just cutting it and just
saying who am I to judge?
So?
Speaker 4 (21:18):
the media took what he said and spun it into what
they wanted to hear, right, andwhat they wanted to hear was oh
yeah, who am I to judge who'sgay, not gay, homosexuality,
whatever, it's all gay.
And so they spun it and therewere other, and the problem is
he didn't correct it, right, youknow?
Yeah, I always say Holy Father,please correct that.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Right.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
I tried to.
I couldn't get through to him Ihear you.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
So let's keep going, because then he gets into the
legacy of Pope Francis, whichyou know.
A lot of us that come fromconservative Catholic families
you know have gotten an earfulfrom relatives about his legacy,
so here's a little bit of thatit says.
(22:03):
In that light, pope Francis'spontificate was a paradox.
It radiated mercy and devotionto the poor and appealing
informality and scripture basedrespect for the environment.
It seasoned those qualitieswith ill temper, loose talk,
autocratic style, disregard forcanon law and procedure and a
damaging lack of clarity onmatters of doctrine and practice
(22:24):
.
In the real world, authority isundermined by autocratic means
in its exercise.
Ambiguity inspires no one.
It creates frustration anddoubt.
Now, when you look at that andyou look at where Pope Francis
came from, his background, hedid not come from a country
where you get a chance to fightit out and to accomplish
(22:49):
whatever God has put in front ofyou to accomplish.
He came from a much differentbackground, which may inform
some of the way he handledhimself as pope.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Yeah, of course, argentinian.
As a matter of fact, I read orheard today in a video that they
said that Francis was the firstArgentinian pope and will be
the last.
So he grew up in a terriblepolitical climate between Juan
Perón and Peronism.
He was an autocrat.
(23:18):
He was a populist right, and attimes capitalist, at times
socialist, whatever he wanted tobe, whatever the mood struck
him.
And don't cry for me, Argentina,we're all kind of no vita you
know, and on the other hand, helived through at least three
military juntas, Like one ofthose juntas started the
Falklands War, the MalvinasIsland War, whatever.
So he's like, he's againsteverybody.
(23:40):
You know he doesn't like tojunta, obviously he doesn't like
to peron people.
And so, interesting, one of hisgood qualities certainly
beautiful qualities was hissimplicity.
There's a very picture of himriding in the train, a subway,
going to work.
He's a cardinal and he's in asubway, kind of a driver.
Then he became Pope and hedrives around in a Fiat or
(24:03):
something.
So those things are very good.
But yeah, I think, look, all ofus are informed by our
environment and especially howwe're growing up and what we've
seen.
You know, and certainly I thinkthat played a large part of it.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I really do, yeah, yeah, okay, and so then the next
paragraph on this thing to meis the heart of the matter for
all Christians across the world.
Quite frankly, it said, thecentral questions Catholics
finally face are these Do wereally believe in Jesus Christ?
Do we have an appetite for thedaily presence of God?
Do we believe that the churchspeaks a saving truth when it
(24:41):
teaches in Christ's name?
And if so, do we submitourselves to that truth or look
for loopholes and plausibleexcuses?
That is a tough paragraph.
Everything turns on the answer,because in our faith truly
grounds, or if our faith, excuseme, truly grounds and organizes
our lives, then the flaws inothers, even within the church
(25:05):
and its Pope, won't shake us.
The church will regain itspurity and focus because we will
regain ours.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Yeah, and I think I mean honestly this is something
that is a problem or can be aproblem, regardless of being
Catholic or Protestant.
I mean, I think, just in awhole, a church body and a
church and a faith.
If you decide that you're goingto chase after what the world
thinks is acceptable whichthere's a lot of pressure to do
(25:33):
that right, there's all thisculture that tells you that this
is okay and this should be okay.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Times have changed.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yeah, and women's rights, this, and you shake your
fist at that and we do this foreverybody and the goodwill and
it just gets twisted.
And I think what's reallyimportant for every Christian
regardless if you're Catholic,protestant, whatever is to read
your scripture and know yourscripture, because it's very
clear in Revelations when itsays that what looks like what's
supposed to be up is going tobe down, what's supposed to be.
(25:59):
You know you would say this isnot I'm paraphrasing clearly but
what is supposed to look, andyou say, no, this is not right.
The world will turn its on itshead and we'll be like confused,
because you know that is God isnot a God of confusion.
Yeah, God is not the God ofconfusion which we always tell
our kids.
If you're getting reallyconfused when you're trying to
make a decision on something, ifyou just can't seem to make up
your mind and you're praying,make sure you stay focused on
(26:23):
scripture and praying and getgodly wisdom when you're trying
to make a decision, and we tryto follow this ourselves.
If you're still confused,that's not coming from God.
That's really the deceptionthat I think that Satan wants
everything to be okay, Not evenjust gray area Mark.
It's like, oh, everything'sokay, Everything out there in
this world who am I to judge?
(26:43):
Everything is okay, and heavenforbid you stand up for what
Christ said is true, becausethen you're judgmental or you're
all kinds of things right, andthat's a hard place to be,
especially our youngergeneration.
What do you think?
Where do you see the youngergeneration in the Catholic faith
?
Do you see it growing?
Do you see it falling back?
Speaker 4 (27:02):
I mean, what do you see?
Yeah, there's something goingon right now.
There is a revival going on inthe Catholic Church.
Our numbers have stoppeddeclining Now we're on the up,
like in France, by somethinglike 0.48% or something.
Growth which is significant,and much of it is young people,
(27:27):
and I think I think it's mythought only I've never read
this but I think the wokemovement has helped us.
I think young people like yourdaughter have said this is crazy
.
You know the transgender thingis like.
By the way, francis saidconcerning the transgender
movement, he said it's an insultto the creator, it's an insult
(27:50):
to God, who made us male andfemale.
He created us.
So we're in a revival and theonly thing I know for sure it
wasn't started or supported bythe bishops and priests.
Right, it's got to be the HolySpirit.
That's what I'm thinking, and Ijust saw a video this morning
in France.
France had 10,000 adultsbaptized and confirmed to the
(28:10):
Catholic Church this past Easter10,000.
France we used to call Francethe church's eldest daughter
because of her beautifulCatholic history and many saints
.
Something's going on, yeah, andagain, I just give praise to
God, but you mentioned, whenyou're struggling for the right
thing to do Scripture absolutelyit's the Word of God and really
(28:32):
focus on Jesus.
Right, and Jesus did not try toadjust to the secular world.
You know Right, he only lastedthree years in ministry.
Had Jesus tried to adjust tothe secular world of his time,
he'd have died of old age and wewouldn't be saved.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
That's true.
No, it's a really, really goodpoint.
All right, so we want to gowith one other thing here, and
it's just one of the lastparagraphs, and this I thought
was also pretty wise it saysthere are no magic beans to
regrow the health of our church,no quick fix reforms to
problems we behaved ourselvesinto.
We need clear teaching.
We need unambiguous truthpreached to us with joy and
(29:13):
confidence, and then we need toact on it.
Female priests, married clergyand all other tired
prescriptions of the 1960s won'topen the vocational floodgates
or miraculously cleanse ourclergy from sins embedded deeply
in our culture, or make gospelmore popular or capture the
imagination of our people.
Easing access to the sacramentswill achieve nothing with
(29:39):
people who don't grasp the needfor them in the first place, and
ignoring a culture of sexualconfusion and dysfunction in the
name of misguided mercy is asurrender to and not an
acceptance concordant with theworld.
So do not go to the world.
The church should stand on itsChrist-centered beliefs and let
(30:02):
the world come to you, andyou're actually really talking
about that happening right now.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
Yeah, charles Chaput.
By the way, thank you God forCharles Chaput.
What a wonderful, articulateman.
Yeah, very sick.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
It was great to read that.
By the way, it's in the WallStreet Journal.
If you want to check it out andyou spell Chaput, you spell it
C-H-A-P-U-T correct.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Yeah, it was great.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
It was great, so if you get a chance to read it, you
know, interesting along thoselines about young priest.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
There's been some studies done in the last 10
years of the ordinans, those whoare ordained, you know, in 25,
24, et cetera, more or less.
We get so many ordinations ayear and they have ticked
upwards a year.
And they're ticked upwards andthe question was how do you
describe yourself, father?
You're 23, 25, 27, 30 year oldpriest to be a progressive,
(30:55):
liberal, traditional,conservative, moderate.
Out of well over 1,000 prieststo be that were questioned, zero
described themselves as liberal, progressive.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Zero.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
The great majority described themselves as
traditional conservative.
We're seeing that, believe me.
We're seeing this in our ownarchdiocese and I know a lot of
bishops are going crazy becausethe bishops tend to be, in many
cases, quite progressive liberalRight and they're getting these
young guys in.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
They're not, they're on fire Right, right.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
And it's unfolding right in front of our eyes in
every diocese in the UnitedStates.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Well, and even on the Protestant side we did a story
on this not very long ago wherethere's this huge resurgence
with the youth, like they'reattending church more often than
their parents, right so theyounger generation are saying,
yeah, they want to go back tofaith, they want to go back to
(31:58):
something where there isgrounding and knowledge and
wisdom.
And I think, ultimately, whenyou draw close to God, I mean I
think you can't help but know inyour gut like this is the peace
I'm seeking, this is what I'mlooking for, because the world's
crazy it is.
It's great If you sit aroundand try to live your life
without God.
It's kind of what we told ourkids is, like we can't tell you
to have our faith.
You got to find it yourself.
But this world is a pretty hardplace to be without God's love
(32:21):
and without him centering yourlife.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
And without faith.
Remember the song.
You're too young.
What's it all about, alfie?
Is it only for the momentyou're mine?
Did that ring a bell?
No, what's it from?
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Not at all.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Do tell us it was about love and it was a movie,
alfie, I think it was called ohAlfie, okay Is it only for the
moment.
You're mine.
Well, the reason I think ofthat is what's life all about If
you only you know?
Psalm 90 says you live to be 70or 80.
For those who are strong, mostof those are emptiness and pain.
Now the psalmist was having abad day when he wrote that.
(32:55):
But that's it.
I know when you know a personalexperience of deep spirituality
for me when my mom and dad diedseparately, many years in
between.
But I remember when my mom diedin 1997 and I looked at her
body, I heard this she was deadand I looked at her.
I said where are you?
Where are you?
I loved her so much and there'sno way she wasn't somewhere.
(33:18):
Yeah, you know, and of course, Ihad faith at the time, and.
But if this is all there is, ifthis is what it's about, oh my
goodness it's sad.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
And there's something in us, there's a connection
that needs connection withintimacy, divine intimacy.
It's just look, every people ofthe world have a religious
experience.
I don't think there's anypurely atheistic people in the
world, native by tribe orwhatever right, they're
different, but they have this,this need.
(33:51):
So, and I think the youngpeople are, are, are they want?
You know?
Interesting, some of them are.
They don't care if they get adriver's license they don't care
about money.
Yeah Right, they don't careabout money, yeah, right, yeah,
you know, and these are they'revery interesting.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
I think gen z is really interesting to me because
part of it you you kind of lookat and go, uh, I, we're in
trouble you know the planet's introuble.
We're in trouble.
I don't know what's going tohappen.
And then part of me is like,wow, okay, I'm kind of impressed
with you guys you know, listenanytime you're down on the young
people.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
Just go to Dion's Pizza.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
And look at those kids.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Oh, Ava used to work there.
Ava was a that was.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
her first job was at Dion's or Chick-fil-A.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, they're very nice, we'regoing to be okay.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Yeah, that's a really good point.
It's a good point.
Okay, let's go through.
I want to go through.
A couple of these are kind offunny.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Oh, let's do this first one.
Okay, I'll talk about it.
This one goes against you beingCatholic.
I'm not sure you're allowed totalk about this first one.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Oh no, I have a very strong opinion on this.
Okay, well, get your opinion,but this is on the.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
It's the holy roll of the dice, right?
So this?
Speaker 2 (34:58):
is Polly market are basically betting on the front
runners.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Okay, so far there's been $18 million has been bet on
this so far, maybe I don't evencare.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
I got to have Pierre Batista Pizzaballa or whatever.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Are you kidding me?
I mean, this is unreal.
He showed this guy's name.
I'm like this is a joke.
I'm like, is this the BabylonBee?
Like, is this Babylon Beemaking fun of him?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Look at Pierre Batista Pizzaballa, pizzaballa.
What do I have to do to get himto be the next pope?
He's Italian, I'm in.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
He's a good candidate .
Yeah, he may be too young he'sonly like 62, I think.
Okay, they don't want a guy for30 years.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Is that the deal?
Is that why we're looking forhim?
So kind of the opposite of whatwe look for in a president,
exactly, you know I mean,benedict handed over.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
He ended up handing over the papacy.
So yeah, he was alive whenFrancis took over.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
So you can hand it over.
Right, I'm not telling father.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
Well before that.
It was hundreds of years beforeit happened.
So I didn't like it.
I liked Benedict.
I thought he was a wonderfulman.
I think the financial problemjust buried him.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
He said I can't do this, it's got to be a lot of
stress on one guy to be incharge of all this across the
whole world.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
That's why you need Pete Zabala to do it.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
Listen, let me tell you about Pete Zabala.
All right, yeah, bring him backup again, abe.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Let's get him back up again.
There we are, okay.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
Where is he, there, he is hey Pysak yeah.
No, that's actually.
I've never seen his namespelled.
Oh, the pizza ball, great, yeah, he's young.
He's the Latin patriarch ofJerusalem.
Okay, he's done a hard job.
Yeah, right, yes, as a matterof fact, not Fatah, but the
(36:44):
Palestinian Authority.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Oh geez the PLO yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
Well, yeah, the Palestinian Authority today.
Oh yeah yeah, but he's aFranciscan multilingual, he
speaks like everything.
He's a biblical scholar, heloves the Bible and he's
courageous, he's strong.
So, yeah, I think he's probably.
You know, you look at it, he'sprobably very he'd be great,
(37:06):
except maybe to you, maybe nexttime, maybe next time.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Now, all these people that are up here, do you see
any of these guys really being?
Because what you said earlierwas you know, you think you're
going in and there's like some,you're hedging your bets, no
doubt about it, but at the samepoint, it may be none of these
guys.
Right, that's right.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
It could honestly be a complete unknown.
Yeah, francis would not havebeen on that list years ago,
right, but Parolin was Secretaryof State and his odds probably
have gone up in the last weekbecause of his dealings with the
People's Republic of China withthat secret deal.
And China has embarrassedVatican after Francis died by
(37:45):
appointing a bishop to a seethat has a bishop approved by.
So there's some shenanigansgoing on and he was the
architect of the deal.
Tangle is apparently they callhim Francis II because he's
loving and kind and he's veryaffable.
He very emotionally, cries alot.
He leaves the heart and he'squite considered liberal
(38:06):
progressive in terms of theFrancis model.
Zupi, I don't know anythingabout Pisa Bala I mentioned.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Erdo is Hungarian, oh okay, yeah, he looks very
unhappy in that picture rightthere.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
That's kind of his persona, apparently.
He doesn't say much.
He's absolutely brilliant andTurkson's been around say much.
He's absolutely brilliant andTurkson's been around.
He was actually considered veryhighly the last time.
He's from Ghana.
As you see, there's also twoAfricans, Sarah, who's 80, and
another one from the Congo, whoare very strong candidates.
(38:36):
And I'm interested in a guyfrom Sweden.
I think his name is.
Aurelius which sounds like aRoman emperor.
Speaker 5 (38:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
And Sweden's a tiny country with tiny, tiny Catholic
minority.
So it's interesting.
You know, you read about it.
It's kind of fun.
It's like who are my draftpicks?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Right?
No, it's your question, I meanyou can actually bet on it.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
We should have that's what I'm saying we should have
had the conclave draft I know.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
So I do want to show you this too.
It's kind of funny.
So now, obviously, with eachnew papacy, the world changes so
much.
So with the internet we havenow it's it's pretty funny.
So what they've done is they'vecreated a very unique thing
which is such a European thingto do, which is they created a,
a, a draft of sorts for the someof the candidates.
(39:22):
If it were a formula one race,okay, so we're going to go ahead
.
Yeah, so we, yeah.
Well, here's the audio on thistoo, ava.
So this is it.
It's conclave 2025.
If it were formula one, verygood, there he is, so, anyway,
(40:05):
you can see that's pretty funny.
Now obviously that's all AIgenerated right.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
It's a lot of fun really.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
No, it's amazing.
So you just see some of thiskind of a crossing of different
generations and in a differentworld.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Yeah, and we should probably give some credit to Abs
Idea.
I think that's who put that out.
They put that out on Instagram,so we want to make sure we give
them full credit for that oh no, that was definitely not us no,
we did not do that, so we uh,we do not get credit for that.
Okay, let's go back.
We talked a little bit aboutthis in the last show.
Trump coming up uh, you know,he they, the white house or
somebody at the white house putstogether the meme of him
(40:40):
dressed up as the pope.
He's having some fun with it.
I kind of came to the defense.
I mean, as the non-Catholic atthe table, I thought this was a
little wrong timing.
I know that's the only time hecould do it, which was Mark's
defense.
They're like well, when else ishe going to do it?
Like?
he's not going to do it whenthere is a Pope right.
So and I just thought, I don'tknow, I just felt like his
(41:00):
timing was a little off.
So do you think that this wasoffensive at all, or do you
think that all Catholics thoughtthis was pretty funny?
Speaker 4 (41:06):
Well, you know, when I saw it, I didn't think of Pope
Francis being deceased.
I thought who's the next pope?
Right, and that's how it wasintended.
Listen, I thought it wasabsolutely hilarious.
Okay, as a matter of fact, Ihad a funeral shortly after Pope
Francis died, and I had afuneral shortly after Pope
Francis died and I met a formerparishioner I knew very well.
I hadn't seen her in years.
Hey, father, how about apicture?
(41:27):
I took some pictures and thatafternoon she sent me an AI of
me as Pope.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
So this is the thing to do.
I thought it was hilarious, sotoday.
Speaker 4 (41:38):
Robert Barron, one of my heroes, bishop Robert Barron
, from Chicago.
Originally.
He was asked about that.
He said well, worst case,probably bad taste.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
But I don't even see it as bad taste.
I don't either.
It's one of the arguments Ialways make when I say something
offensive to Christy.
I'm like God gave me this senseof humor.
He knows.
I'm going to use it you don'thand me a weapon without
thinking I'm not going to firethe gun.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
As a matter of fact for the listeners, we had this
discussion before we begantaping and you said let me see
that picture of you as the Pope,and I told him forget it.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
I was going to put it on there.
I was going to put it on there.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
We'll put it up on this, and then you know what
happens now.
Then we're all talking aboutyou.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Okay, so talk about uncomfortable.
So Trump is at a pressconference yesterday with Roger
Goodell, the head of the NFL.
Now the funny thing about thisis Goodell is standing next to
him, and then Trump is askedabout the Pope picture.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Yeah, they're doing a press conference, by the way,
about the draft coming to DC.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yeah, In a couple of years he thinks he's talking
about.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
And then he gets fireballed, this question about
hey, the meme on the Pope, anddo you think that it offended
people?
Speaker 2 (42:41):
And you know, like you said, Goodell looks like he
wants to vomit halfway through,but then, but then trump keeps
going after him.
So so here was here's trump'sreaction on the reporter trying
to call him out on it.
Speaker 5 (42:53):
Some catholics were not so happy about the image of
you looking like the good tellslike oh I see.
You mean they can't take a joke.
You don't mean the catholics,you mean the fake news media.
The Catholics loved it.
I had nothing to do with it.
Somebody made up a picture ofme dressed like the Pope and
they put it out on the internet.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
That's not me that did it.
I have no idea where it camefrom.
Speaker 5 (43:21):
Maybe it was AI, but I know nothing about it.
I just saw it last evening.
Actually, my wife thought itwas cute.
She said isn't that nice?
Actually, I would not be ableto be married, though that would
be a lot.
To the best of my knowledge,popes aren't big on getting
married.
No no no, I think it's a fakenews media that you know they're
fakers.
My question, though, sir, wasabout the fact that it was put
(43:44):
out on the White House account,Even though it was AI-generated.
it was a joke, it was a meme.
Does it at all diminish thesubstance of the official White
House account to have it go outon the app?
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Give me a break.
Speaker 5 (43:57):
It was just.
Somebody did it in fun.
It's fine, you have to have alittle fun, don't you?
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Okay, there we go.
Classic Trump it's fine.
Have to have a little fun,don't you?
Okay, there we go.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
So classic trump and goodell just wanting just like
please transport me out of here.
Yeah, please, let's not talkabout this.
Uh, when I'm up here talkingabout the draft, please don't do
that.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
But I thought he was gonna have a biden moment and
look at his watch yeah he's likecan we go?
Can we go, is it time?
Speaker 3 (44:18):
to go all right, well , I did send this to you.
To you mark as a joke, this,this next little picture.
I found this one on the-.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
So, speaking of Trump being the so we have a new Pope
, and then we see orange smokeeverybody coming out, just for
those of you listening.
Speaker 4 (44:31):
Hey, it's good times, so you never know you never
know, but okay, so you're Let mesay I sent that picture of the
orange smoke to my-.
I have 12 first in Ireland anda hundred and thousand second
and third and fourth cousins.
That's where most of my familystill lives.
And when I said they didn'tthink Trump, they thought of an
orange man being elected.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Oh yeah, so it had kind of a double.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting, ian Paisley.
So it depends on where you live, I guess, how you interpret
that one Exactly.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
So where are you?
So tell us.
So you're retired, sort of, butnot really.
You're still going out.
So what's the next?
What are the next few monthslook like for you?
Speaker 4 (45:16):
Well, let me see.
I've got a couple of weddings.
I've got a change of commandceremony in Fort Bliss.
One of my former personagescommanded a tank battalion for
two years and he's giving thatup and becoming the Division G3
and then on to the War College.
I want to be there for him.
As you know, I'm retiredmilitary and I have two weddings
.
I have a funeral later in earlyJune in Arkansas in Conway,
(45:38):
arkansas for a formerparishioner.
I just came back last week froma wedding in Athens, texas.
It was great to see oldparishioners.
I love them dearly.
So when I retired I had athousand contacts on my iPhone
and they all have my number, soI get a lot of calls.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
That's great, and are you still filling in?
Speaker 4 (45:55):
Oh yeah, I have mass Friday at the VA and Saturday at
the VA and next Friday andSaturday again at the Veterans
Hospital in the afternoon.
So yeah, I stay busy.
I want to celebrate Mass onSunday with an assembly.
I often celebrate Mass in myhouse, but it's not the same.
I love to preach.
So yeah, I stay very busy andit's good.
(46:17):
I have a wedding later inOctober in Long Island.
Oh, look at that so yeah, so itkeeps me going.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
That's great, I'm 79.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
I'll be 79 shortly.
By the way, I'm 14 days youngerthan Trump and he was born
three miles from me.
Oh whoa.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (46:33):
In Queens, in Queens.
So that's where the resemblanceends.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yeah, it's in the water.
There, you guys, we were lowermiddle class.
Yeah, well, yeah, he was alittle different.
Well, thanks for giving us allthe information.
I don't know, we just kind offelt like this was something we
wanted to talk about.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Well, and a lot of our.
We mentioned that we were goingto have you come on and then we
started getting viewers askingwhen is it?
When is he coming?
When's Father coming on?
And you have some fans outthere that have written us to
tell you hi and hello and passon their good wishes.
So we thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4 (47:04):
Well, my pleasure, and you know it's great to laugh
.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah, no, it's good, joy is a gift of the Holy Spirit
.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
That's right, that's right, no question.
So is sarcasm, if you ask me,yeah?
Speaker 2 (47:13):
well, they go hand in hand.
So thanks very much, Father.
We appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
On Sunday You've been listening to the no Doubt About
it podcast.
We hope you've enjoyed the show.
We know we had a blast.
Make sure to like, rate andreview.
We'll be back soon but in themeantime you can find us on
Instagram and Facebook at noDoubt About it podcast.
No doubt about it.
(47:41):
The no Doubt About it podcastis a Choose Adventure Media
production.
See you next time on.
No Doubt About it podcast is aChoose Adventure Media
production.
See you next time on no DoubtAbout it.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
There is no doubt about it.
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