June 16, 2025 • 52 mins
On Mon.'s No Dunks, the guys break down the Magic acquiring Desmond Bane from the Grizzlies for KCP, Cole Anthony, four first-round picks, and a pick swap. What a doozy. That, plus the latest on Kevin Durant's potential trade destinations, Steven Adams staying with the Rockets, our favorite stats to explain the NBA Finals, and more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Happy Monday everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I hope you're feeling blessed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm just out here meditating, sipping on a big old
cup of shrimp, sipping on a big old, big old
cup of shrimp, big old, tall, tall glass or shrimp.
They said, what do you want? They said, what do
you want to eat? I said, I don't want no food.
I said, bring me a tall bring me a big
old tall glance or shrimps. You see all old shrimps.
(00:26):
You got five tam fifty two shrimps in there. You'll
probably never seen a shrimp before in your life.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Good mornings, sweet world, and welcome to the Now Dunks
podcast on the Athletic Network. It's Monday, June sixteenth, twenty
twenty five. I'm Jay Skeets here in the Classic Factory,
and alongside me as always.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Tasmelis Transaction fans. This one's for you.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Next to him, it's the bearded one shirt back on Boo.
It's herby Hey and over Yonder making the magic happen.
Super producer JD. Hello Darius, JD. Stick with you for
a second. Things sound a little different to me. Yeah,
I know. We have a lot of new technology over
at your desk. Is it freaking you out a little bit?
It sounds like I'm scuba diving. Yeah, okay, it feels
(01:20):
good to everybody.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Else hopefully, Yeah, drop a lake if it sounds better.
I've been working on this for the last ten hours straight.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
So we got what do we got? Talk it through.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
We got a new roadcaster to pro to something or other.
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
What do you mean?
Speaker 5 (01:35):
You don't know?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Buy it? Okay, you say that because you had a
long weekend. Put it together. Troubleshooting.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
There's always something skeets.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
There's always something.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, yeah, fascinating. It's gonna take me a while we
get used to this, but uh, you.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Know what it is.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
I think there's a slight delay and I'm going to work.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
On But as long as the stream team are giving
the thumbs up that we sound okay.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
It sounds good, Paul, it's just up here.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
It's just up here in our cans. We can deal
with that. Hello to everybody here on a Monday morning,
Hit the like buttons, subscribe podcast listeners. Five star ratings
and reviews. Game five of the NBA Finals tonight, excuse me,
a pivotal Game five? That series tattoo too that's a
pivotal game five. We're gonna discuss that one later because
(02:22):
the Southern lawyer paid us a visit this weekend.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
Good sir, we got all sales a try.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah, what a Father's Day treat for you guys. Yesterday,
the Memphis Grizzlies trading Desmond Bane to the Orlando Magic
for Contavious Caldwell, Pope Cole Anthony, four unprotected first round picks,
and one first round pick swap. I'll give you those
actual picks. You got the sixteenth overall pick in this
(02:50):
year's draft. Easy, that's going from Orlando to Memphis. Oh yeah,
you said that one was easy. Not this next one.
A first round pick in twenty twenty six. It's probably
gonna come from the Suns. But you know it's a
it's a convoluted pick. Oh, like, you'll do your head
in trying to figure out how it could possibly be
Washington's or Phoenix is at all?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Anyway, it's a twenty six pick, and then the Magic's
twenty eight and thirty unprotected first round picks, and then
the swap rights to a first round pick in twenty nine,
which is top two protected. But anyway, tasks. That's a
lot of draft capital going to the Memphis Grizzlies for
Desmond Bane. I think we can start on the Magic
side of things if you want to, and then pivot
to the Memphis Grizzlies. But what was your first reaction
(03:30):
when you saw the details and what this deal was?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Like everyone's seeing it. That's a lot of picks. That
is a lot that they gave up.
Speaker 6 (03:40):
And we'll get into every single pick and what it
means and what it is later, because it's boring to
start with that, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I just did.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
We just did.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Oh no, we can get way deeper than that, you know,
a week out.
Speaker 6 (03:53):
Yeah, I think three are pretty simple and that one
next year that's the complicated.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (03:57):
I can't wait to talk about that anyway. It is
a lot of picks for Desmond Bay. It is exciting
on the other side to see an Eastern Conference team
throw some punches and go for it here, right, because
I think this Magic team will be far better next year.
They should be a top three team in the Eastern
Conference standings. They should be Last year they won forty
(04:18):
seven games when they were all healthy. Last season, you
put in Desmond Bay, I still think this is gonna
be an incredible defensive team and their offense is going
to get way better. Imagine all the attention he is
going to get playing with Franz Wagner and Paul Boncerra.
Those guys are going to get space and that is
going to help them. They're going to play so many
dribble handoffs there at the elbows, and you got to
(04:38):
just respect Desmond Bay and his numbers.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
He's a great on ball creator.
Speaker 6 (04:43):
He probably did that a little too much, just like
Jalen Suggs did a little too much of that in Orlando,
so I could see him attacking tons of close ups
because you're gonna have to give Bancaro and Wagner lots
of respect.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I think this makes Jalen Suggs way better.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
All those stats and all that, we can break it down,
but he is just an incredible three point shooter. While
the Magic just stunk last year, they were the worst
three point shooting team. They're the worst in a decade
at thirty one point eight percent. This guy is far better.
I think this team just it gets better everywhere. It
is definitely a worry that you give out. You giveaway
(05:17):
every single one of your picks. In terms of the
Atlanta Magic, how they get better around those four plus
Wendell Carter Junior. That is a very good question, because
they got none essentially now, So that's the question. But
I'm very excited to see them in an Eastern Conference where, yeah,
you never know.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
How good way because Tatum's injury to the Celtics maybe
takes them down a peg. Obviously, Damian Lillard's injury with
the Bucks. Yep, You've got good Pacers teams, You've got
good Knicks teams. You still having theory a good Calves team. Yeah,
Pacers currently constructed.
Speaker 6 (05:45):
Pacers, Nicks, Magic and the Calves. That's that's the scramble
right there at the top. I gotta think. I think
this will be a really really good offense. I think
they're gonna love having guys that you have to respect.
You know, didn't have enough of that in Memphis and
now these guys playing together and we can We'll get
(06:06):
into that, but I am excited period.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Okay, what was your first reaction to this tk a
trade during the NBA Finals and players that we actually know,
that was my first reaction, Like they have been trades before,
it was like the Thunder or the Nuggets trading a
future pick for a late first round pick, not guys
who actually matter to both teams.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
My second reaction was one of the greatest name for
name trades of all time, Desmond Bane for Contavious Caldwell Pope.
Those were like top five minutes in the NBA. Switching sides,
there's two parts to it, for everything, the basketball and
the business. I think it's a great fit basketball wise,
for the magic. They're getting the three point shooting that
they desperately need. They thought KCP was that guy. Clearly
he wasn't. I don't necessarily think that one shooter instantly
(06:48):
fixes their shooting, but Bain helps. He's also a good
secondary playmaker. He's also a good secondary ball handler. He
cares on defense. Definitely an upgrade over KCP. I do
think Orlando's gonna have to get a lot more creative
on offense. They still don't really have a point guard playmaker.
Suggs isn't that kind of guy who gets into the
lane and makes plays for other people. Polo's a good playmaker,
(07:10):
Franz is a good playmaker. Bane's a good playmaker. All
these guys are wired to score However, yeah, I don't
want to see Bane just standing in the corner like
he's KCP. That was one of the problems. They didn't
know how to use him. I don't know if Jamal
Mosley is the guy to unlock everybody, but he's gonna
help at least on the offensive end. The question is
the price that they paid. They had to pay a
pick to get off the KCP contract. I think that's
(07:31):
one of those that's thrown in there. Bin is a
guy that does miss time thirteen forty two to twenty
four games the last three seasons. This is a Magic
team that was completely banged up last year, missing Pollo
for a huge chunk of the season, Franz for a
huge chunk of the season, mok Wagner went out for
the season, Suggs went out for the season. So adding
another injury guy to injury guys, that's a little bit
of a worry. They're losing some depth. I'm not necessarily
(07:54):
worried about the picks they're giving up because more than
likely Orlando's drafting eighteen to thirty in the first round
most of the time. Who knows injuries could happen, Twenty
thirty could end up being a delicious pick for the Grizzlies.
I'm more so worried about like tass Is saying, this
is the magic team. Now it's gonna be Polo Franz, Sugs,
and Desmond Bain locked in basically until twenty twenty nine.
(08:16):
Polo is gonna get paid next season. That's a very
expensive team. In the second Apron era, it kind of
makes more sense to have two really highly paid players,
not four, especially when you trade all of your draft picks,
which means you then can't acquire the guys around those four.
That's literally what was happening in Memphis.
Speaker 6 (08:32):
Yeah, Yeah, Suggs is a descending contract that gets cheaper
and cheaper, but yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Gets more and more.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Ye, they are guys on max deals after the twenty
five to twenty six season. Then you said Sugs like, yeah,
thirty million, but I guess it does decrease. But Bains
does make a ton of money between like what thirty
seven million and that only goes up up up to
about forty five million over the next four years.
Speaker 6 (08:54):
Come on, TV, deal, keep this salary cat raising for
those Yeah, and there's big drop off after you know,
those four Wendell Curb Junior is probably your center. They
have Jonathan Isaac under contract for a good amount of
time here as a backup.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Other than that, yeah, they won't be able to get
them through.
Speaker 6 (09:11):
The draft, which is a thing that here, with the
second apron and how restricted it is, you make sense
to be able to draft somebody for cheaper, especially guys
are gonna be sticking around in NCAA because of how
much they get paid off the court now.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
So yeah, that is the problem. There's no doubt about that.
They paid a lot.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
But it's a huge bet obviously on that four that
you just said, and then these other pieces and what
they have there. We have an identity. We're a defensive
minded team and we look at the east landscape and
we think there's a path there to be. Like you said,
tasks like man, I think they're laughing or they're loving it.
If they're top three. It's like people are like, can
you get even into that, you know, sort of top
four and start winning playoff series because you are sort
of committing yourself at least for a year or two
(09:53):
to this four And maybe they can't because you guys
went through it. I mean on paper, this is awesome.
They're the worst three point shooting team in the league,
and they had a guy that shoots forty one percent
for his career from deep on a pretty good amount
of shots. Like it's like, you know, on his career,
it's like six and a half. He had that one
year where Joe was out where he was like shooting
like nine threes per game and that was his worst
three point shooting percentage of his career and that was
(10:15):
still at thirty eight percent. So that's a I mean,
it makes sense. And then he doesn't like your defense
doesn't really fall off because of him. He's pretty good
at you know, point of attack defense. He does bring
a little playmaking like he's he's a damn good player.
Everyone's like, oh, you trade all this for a non
all start, Well, he's an all star. If he's in
the Eastern Conference at one point he'll have made a crappy,
dumb all start. Maybe he would he's in the West.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
You're not gonna make a point for the game. Yeah,
that's good. It's good. It's very good.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
But they are just wow, this is a roll of
the dice, no doubt, which is exciting.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
Totally. Yeah, they're trying to see a team push all
in and now it's a huge bet on Polo getting
a lot better. I think he kind of took a
step back actually this season. He was awesome to start
the year. When he came back a little out of sorts.
I think they both had core muscle injuries, right him, yeah,
and Franz. But the efficiency was a little bit And
that's why to me, it's got to be some more
interesting stuff going on offensively for the Magic. You're mentioning
(11:05):
dribble handoffs. They didn't do that at.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
All last season.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
That was a big part of the offense for Minnesota
or for Memphis. They completely switched things up, bringing in
all the new assistants. Now, eventually that went poorly for
the coaching staff, but they were a funky offense. It
was kind of like we're moving around a lot and
then just one on one, one on one, one on one.
The Magic will do something simpler or similar. But I
think they they're just gonna have to honestly hire an
(11:28):
offensive coordinator because I don't know that Jamal Mosley has
big time plans on that end. They'll still be great defensively,
they just need to see Paulo get better at being
a playmaker, a more intuitive playmaker. He's still early in
his career, so he's kind of making the first reads
on stuff. Yeah, Franzi, I think is a little bit
better as a pick and roll guy. But if he's
running the pick and roll so Bain is just standing
over there, then that's just the top four. They're a
(11:50):
super top heavy team now, so now you have to
hope Anthony Black is good. You have to help Tristan
de Silvas. Maybe Jet Howard turns into something. I think
those are more if he bets, because this could be
a team that has four really good players and then
five question marks from five to ten.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (12:04):
I do like how they're betting on these four guys.
They're trying to emulate a little bit what the Celtics did.
It's a poor man Celtics team. When you get into
your Tatum and Brown, they're not Tatum and Brown, I
think you're saying, yeah, Palm Frons, Yeah sure. And then
you know Suggs trying to emulate Drew Holliday and Derek
(12:25):
White and and now Baying.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
They're different types of guys.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
But I do think there will be plenty of catch
and shoots opportunities for for both those guys, both the
magic guards. Now Jalen Suggs, he had a terrible season
shooting the three ball. With the guys out, he shot
thirty one point four percent. But with Bound Carroll in there,
those first five games, he was awesome. I mean they
were really good. The first five games. He was forty
two percent from three. I know you're smiling trade because
(12:49):
he didn't shoot.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
That was the the Anthony Meltain era the NBA.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Why because I said Anthony Moultain.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
Yeah, it was also who in the first five end
of the season.
Speaker 6 (12:57):
Yeah, But Jalen Sugs had a good year last year.
He did, she almost shot great season. Yeah, so was
that in an anomaly where he shot almost forty percent
from three. He was also forty point seven percent from
three on catch and shoots last year, Like the guy
can play. This year, he only played ninety seven minutes
with Franz and Ben Carrow. So the guy was awesome
(13:18):
when they played together. So this is just assuming that
they played together. In Jalen Slugs, if there's three guys
running the offense, he can be the catch and shoot guy.
And that's why he kind of emulates Derek White to me,
just be ready, man, just be ready to fire. And
last year again he shoots a lot and they need
him and Baine to shoot a lot. So those four
guys rotating it. Yeah, the rest of them is definitely
(13:38):
a question. But I got faith in those four, right.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I was making some comparisons talking to the guys in
the WhatsApp group and all that, Like, I do think
it could go poorly. You hope it's not. If you're
a Magic fan of course, and you're like, yeah, Baine
is really good. He'd maybe even underrated. Yeah, I took
a lot of draft capital, but like Trey said, one
of those picks was to get off one of the
guys were sending out in Cacpte, maybe even Cole Anthony,
who I think is under contract for a couple year
as well. Anyway, I wonder though, if this could be
(14:02):
similar to the Hawks trading for de Jonte Murray in
the summer of twenty twenty two, which did catch us
by surprise too, with the amount of picks that went
out that was three first round picks and one pick swap.
This one obviously one more. But there's some similarities between
maybe those two guys, not how way they play, but
like the age of de Jonta Murray at the time
to Desmond Bain sort of just hitting their prime. Both
(14:25):
good not great players. You know, Dejonte had made one
All Star Game, Bain zero. Both in the West though
coming east, both guys that have had like struggles staying healthy.
Because de Jonte missed his rookie season. No, he missed out. Yeah,
he missed about half his rookie season. Then he missed
his entire third season Bain Trey, you said it. He's
he like misses like twenty five percent of the games,
(14:45):
like a lot of times here over his five year career.
Like he's he just has like every injury known to man,
like hips and groins and ankles and toes, like he's
done it all. It sort of feels like And then
the other similarity is the Hawks brought to Jonte Murray
in to like solve their defense, like help with our defense.
That didn't work on the.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Flip side magic Bans coming in.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
No, Bain's coming in help with our offense. It's the
complete reverse. Yeah, and it's like how much can one
guy do? So, Like I think it's better though, just
my final point on that is like this fit is
better Bain coming into Orlando, then Dejonte was ever coming
into the Hawks. But again same idea of like, look
at where we are in the East. We think we're
like like a five hundred team. We can sort of
(15:28):
catapult ourselves up didn't work for Atlanta. They pivoted out
of de Jonte Murray. I think it'll work better with
Bane in Orlando. But you could see a guin similar.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
The Magic are just way better than the Hawks were.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Why they weren't though? When the Hawks made that trade,
they were a better team than than the Magic were
last year. Are you just gonna blame their own injuries?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
The Magic were a forty seven win team ten years ago.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Last year they weren't.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
Last year with twenty three twenty four, yeah, ben Cara
twenty three twenty four, they won forty seven games.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
So last year, yeah, Franz was hurt.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
They they were a five team.
Speaker 6 (15:55):
They didn't have obliques man Franz and bon Cao both
had oblique injuries. They didn't They're two guys didn't play basketball.
Dejontay Murray was brought in to solve everything on this
team in Atlanta yeah, that obviously did not work. And
I know we look at these draft picks, we say, whoa,
that's a lot. You really can't tell until a few
years later. I know it's boring to say that, but
you really can't tell what they gave up until years later.
(16:18):
Like the Rudy go Bear trade. It was also four
monster picks. They just made two conference finals. Looks a
lot better now than it did the day of, and
so we could see I'm.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Team FM picks, but I'm also with these aprons. You
do have to go back to like, this is four
guys you're spending a ton on and you better be
damn well convinced that they're going to be like challenging
for you know, an Eastern Conference title or even further
like the Knicks did when they made the Crazy Bridges trade,
or they at least gave a lot of draft capital
and they're like, that's our guy that's going to help
(16:48):
us get to the next level. No, he did.
Speaker 6 (16:50):
They gotta be good, there's no, there's no they have
to be good and just to get into the picks.
So it's number sixteen this year, and then their own
picks in twenty twenty eight and twenty thirty, when the.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Expect to be good.
Speaker 6 (17:01):
All these guys signed through you know, the next three
seasons and then five seasons. So where are those picks
going to be? Yes, so you gotta assume they're in
the twenties. But you know, who knows at this point.
The next year is the juicy one because it could
be Orlando's. Again, it could be any pick in the draft,
depending on where Orlando is, but it also could be Phoenix's. Ye,
(17:23):
with all these picks w ups, so it could be
anywhere from ten to twenty five. Again, so it's it's
different when you sit back and look at it after
the fact, but right now it looks like a lot picks.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
How would you then grade the Orlando side of things?
Throw a trade grade on it for the Magic getting
Desmond Bane with what they had to give up.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
I think it's probably between a B and a B plus, Okay,
So I don't know, like a eighty seven. It's good. Yeah,
that's good, exactly like I like the fit with Baine.
I don't think he takes anything away from the Magic,
and he's going to add stuff. He's gonna add three
point shooting. When if Suggs picks up an injury for
ten games, he can be the main perimeter ball handler
(18:05):
for the Magic. Right the question to me becomes, just
how are they going to get better in the future,
because this is their top four. I love their top four.
I'm a Wendell Carter junior fan. In general, probably an
area they could upgrade if they ever wanted to, But
now it's gonna be tough for them to upgrade them one.
If their bench guys don't hit it all, then they're
really really top heavy, and you're looking at the Knicks
where you're like, wait a second, we've got six guys
(18:26):
we can play. That doesn't work out? How good are
they gonna be? Preseason, I thought the Magic were in
the same tier as the Cavs and the Pacers. They
both just had awesome seasons. I think they'll be good
again next year, like Tasa saying, I think the Knicks
will be good again next year like Tasa saym But
I think Orlando probably slots in competing for number four
with a Boston team that's missing Jason Tatum, but then
(18:47):
we'll get him back. Milwaukee, I think is a question mark.
Detroit could get better. They've got ways to get better,
and they just had a fun playoff run playing against
the Knicks in the first round. So I think they're
four to six, which is a great spot for the
Magic to be if things hit right and maybe they
make a conference finals. I think more than likely they'll
probably win one playoff round kind of team, which is
(19:08):
an improvement, But what is the ceiling after that? As
the question for yeah, and that all comes down to
how good does Polo get, how good does Franz get?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yeah, And then I would just add to that, and
I'm with you, like, obviously you make this type of move.
It's like, we got to win playoff series now and
start going further. And if you don't, then they'll have
one more move and that will be Jamal Moseley will
be out and a new coaching staff will come in
and have a go at it. And like, that's exactly
what's gonna happen if they don't have immediate success and
obviously compete at the top of the East and win
some playoff rounds. But okay, you give it a B
(19:35):
B plus where you go on same thing or do
you go a you seem to like it more?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I do?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I do like it more?
Speaker 6 (19:40):
I do believe in a young Boncaro twenty two and
Franz still super young to go with Desmond Baine. And
I do think Jalen Suggs is a far better player
than Dan Anthony Melton. I think he's got a lot
of talent, and so I think their top four is real.
Whether it's it depends on what they do this year.
Like if they can win fifty five games, which I
(20:02):
think should be their ceiling, and I think that's a possibility,
then it's definitely it's an A minus. It's an A
right now, it's a B plus. But I do believe
in their defense being great. Desmond Baine is a tough dude.
Two years ago, he is in Lebron's face in the playoffs, Like,
I don't think he is just going to fade away.
I think he's gonna be a very good player for
this team and they're gonna ask a lot. They're gonna
(20:23):
ask a lot of him. And sucks to handle the ball.
That that's what they lacked going into the playoffs. They
didn't have any ball handlers. Suggs was out, and so
how will they react now to having a great Bancaro
as your number one guy plus Franz growing. I think
that they should play off each other really well.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
Well twenty twenty five, twenty six Magic like the Desmond
Baine Magic. Will they be better than this year's Grizzlies
team twenty four to twenty five Grizzlies, great question. They
won forty eight games in the Western Conference.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
It's so funny you said that because I wrote in
my notes, would the Grizzlies have kept their core together
with their three guys obviously now breaking it up moving
Bain if they were in the East, Because ever, we
talked about like expansion coming and that means some teams
are going to be coming to the Eastern Conference, and
the Grizzlies, you know when you look at on the map, hey,
they could be one of those teams. Just made me laugh.
It's like, yeah, I don't know, probably not. They probably are,
(21:12):
Like where you are in the Eastern Conference looks a
lot juicier than where you are in the West, So yeah,
who knows. We'll see. Let's hear from you out there.
How do you grade it? What are your thoughts? Did
the Magic get fleeced? That's a popular reaction to this,
with how many picks they sent out a lot of
did the magic make a reach going for Baine with this? Yeah,
(21:35):
we have a lot of arms jokes being flown around.
So anyway, let's hear your thoughts. Let's pivot to the
grizzly side though, what do you think of them? And
obviously we can get integrading their side of this too.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Well, they had to change.
Speaker 6 (21:46):
They moved on from the Bay Jaron Jackson junior John
Moranta has been together for a long time. Their defense
got weaker this year. They weren't playing their type of ball,
they weren't playing hard enough. So forty eight wins, obviously
it's a good number. But I do think it's smart
and that they needed a new direction, even if they
were in the Eastern Conference, to keep going forward with
(22:08):
this same trio you've been going forward for a long
time with.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I think it makes.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Sense mm hmmm, going forward with a long time. But
the problem is, like they haven't all been healthy at
the same time for a good chunk of this too,
over the last couple of years. Yeah, right, there're three guys,
they've Bain and Triple J. But I hear you. They
pivoted here. They seem to have a lot more flexibility. Yeah,
Like I know Windhorse is saying this is a rebuild
trade for the Grizzlies, and I'm interested whether you agree
(22:35):
with that or not. Or is this sort of like
a pivot sort of opening up the books here and
what you're gonna do with Triple J's extension and all that.
But what do you think you.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
Think they're pivoting on a pivotal Game five? Maybe it's so,
I mean, definitely a downgrade to go from Bain to KCP.
I don't even know how Cole Anthony's going to really
factor in here. He's a good backup guard. So with
Scotti Pippen Junior, I think Cole Anthony could ended up
being traded. But you know changes were for Memphis. They
have the Jared Jackson junior extension question hanging over them,
(23:04):
and their GM postseason was basically like, we're not close
to winning here in the Western Conference, so they decided
we had our fun with the JOW, Jaron Jackson Junior
and Baden team. They won one playoff series over the
course of those guys being together. There's a lot of
circumstances there, but you see what happened in the playoffs.
They got smoked in the first round against the Thunder,
(23:25):
so they're not even close. I have to agree. I
think this is smart though, for the Grizzlies to get
some more flexibility. We'll see what they end up doing.
I think it's more likely that they keep Jaron Jackson
Junior and John Morant and now they have some flexibility
around those guys, not to mention all of these picks
which maybe they don't want to keep, and they can
package those picks for a player who is an upgrade
(23:46):
over now KCP. I guess they could go the blow
up everything sort of route, but it seems unlikely to me,
just because they're the only team in their city. When
you're the only team in your city, usually you try
and be good because then people stay interested. They've also
had a ton of success drafting guys in the mid
first round, so I think the Grizzlies are probably pretty
confident that even if these picks are eighteen to thirty, like,
(24:06):
we can find a player. Guess who we found, Desmond Baine.
He was the thirtieth draft picks. So I think this
is smart from the Grizzlies to kind of see the
writing on the wall, like the team we had, it
wasn't good enough. We tried firing Taylor Jenkins at the
end of the season to give ourselves a little jolt
in the arm. That didn't work out. Things had to change.
It's the second Apron Era. Teams are going to get
more and more bold, saying goodbye to max players who
(24:30):
aren't all Stars and all NBA guys, which obviously Desmond
Bain isn't in the Western Conference. Maybe he gets in
screaming distance in the Eastern Conference. But basically between Jared
Jackson Junior and Jaw taking a step back, They've got
two contracts on guys who are well paid and Jaw
isn't looking like the best deal. So getting more flexibility
I think is pretty smart for Memphis.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
You agree with that?
Speaker 6 (24:51):
Oh yeah, yeah, I think I said that they are
more flexible. They've got picks and so they've got two
guys as they're number one and number two, but they
needed to change. So they need another wing, that's for sure.
Jalen Wells probably go to your shooting guard spot, and
they need a center play with Jared Jackson Junior really well.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Zach Edy and j out for the season.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's interesting if everybody was healthy. You're
looking at John Morant, KCP, Jalen Wells obviously, Jaron Jackson junior,
is Zach Edy if he was there, And then you
said Pippin Cole, Anthony Gg Jackson still there.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
They got to resign al Dama.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Yes, Conchar is there. I think he'll be moved. Actually
Clark maybe coming back, Huff and then maybe a country
singer named Vince Williams Junior I think is on the roster.
But yeah, this is definitely this idea of like we
either use all this draft capital to try and get
more high end talent, or if ultimately this doesn't work,
we can pivot and you know, you would move one
(25:46):
of the other big pieces. But I'm with you, TK.
I think this like this to me is like, oh,
they're not one of those two guys are not going anywhere.
Speaker 6 (25:52):
Now.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
It's Jaw and Triple J and will build around them
new coaching staff and maybe they want they want to
implement a whole new style. Even they've talked about like
we want to be running gun more with John Morant stuff.
So that is it. I think, Hollanders said Memphis has
maximized its available assets. The Grizzlies have ten first and
three swaps now in their war chest, so again you
can use that to retool potentially around John Morant and
(26:14):
Jackson Junior.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
So how you grading this one then? From the Grizzly side,
this one's an A minus for me. I think what
Memphis is doing is smart. They're going into a second
era team build, basically saying we can't have three max guys.
We can have two max guys and a whole bunch
of players who are making middle contracts that are tradable,
and they have picks they can attach to it if
they want to do it. I kind of think, well,
(26:36):
I thought the Grizzlies were a little undervalued coming into
this season just because I was a John Morant Jared
Jackson believer. Also, it does been bane believer at the time.
John took a step back. So obviously, if he's going
to be playing like he did last season, the Grizzlies
they are in trouble regardless. I think he'll stick around there.
I think he can be better, but they absolutely need
him to be better, and maybe playing underneath thamas Isolo
(26:58):
is the answer. Right, Like clearly there was albums with
Taylor Jenkins towards the end of the season. Apparently Isolo
just wants to be pick and roll playing with John Morant.
That's where John Moran it is best for sure. Jared
Jackson Junior took a step forward. But I think this
is ultimately a win win trade. Like it's funny because
they're making opposite bets. Holling are really nailed at the athletic.
(27:18):
The Grizzlies are saying we need to get more flexible,
and the Magic are saying we need to get more talent,
which makes them less flexible. The Magic needed more talent,
they needed shooting. That's why they got banged. The Grizzlies
needed more flexibility and their team wasn't good enough. So
they're taking a little bit of a step back, which
is why I think like this is a win win trade.
Both sides are getting exactly what they want.
Speaker 6 (27:37):
I totally agree the flexibility is the important part here.
For the Grizzlies. I don't think you could just keep
on going with the same thing over and over and
over again. And now they have so many picks and
so much space because contracts are a lot of them
are expiring after this year. You obviously have to sign
Jaron Jackson junior. That is inevitable, right, They're going to
sign him for a monster to go.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
With that too, right, him not making.
Speaker 6 (28:00):
At least save some money, going from thirty five percent
of the cap potentially to thirty percent of the cap,
So yeah, every percent saving some bucks.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
This is going to be fascinating to see if for
how this sets the tone for the trade market here
for the rest of the summer. Again, a lot of
comparisons obviously to the McHale Bridges Hall that the Knicks
did with the nets and all those draft picks, and
maybe even you go back to the Rudy Gobert one.
But do you have any take on what this does
now for these potential other trades we see? Obviously Kevin
Durant the biggest name that I know we'll get to
(28:31):
in a second year.
Speaker 5 (28:31):
My first thought was that it's going to be a
lot harder to get these all stars if you're trying
to trade for Kevin Durant. But I actually don't think
that's true now that I've thought on it more. Hey,
I don't think Giannis is going to get traded, So
the biggest name is off the board. B Kevin Durant
is thirty seven years old with a contract waiting after
next season. They got to sign him to an extension.
It's not the same as getting Desmond Baine at twenty
(28:53):
seven with four years under the contract. Not to mention,
a team like the Magic probably have to overpay a
little for the CACP fact and also for the trying
to get guys in. They maybe are not the biggest
free agency destination though they were the biggest free agency
destination circa two thousand. They were trying to get Tracy
McGrady and Tim Duncan almost made it happen, only got
one of them. But I don't know. I just it's
(29:16):
gonna be different scenarios. You know, like Rudy Gobert got
traded for five first round picks. That didn't happen again
until Michale Bridges. McHale Bridges did it didn't happen again
until Desmond bane just got traded here. So I think
they're gonna be different scenarios. It's just gonna cost whatever
it costs for Kevin Durant, not five, I don't think, right.
Speaker 6 (29:35):
But yeah, well I don't think Orlando really is that
free agency destination, like it was in two thousand. Like
you said, Tracy McGrady leaving Toronto, Toronto's not seen that
same way anymore. Tracy just didn't want to be there.
It's unfortunate now people want to go there. The thing
with Orlando, yeah, I wonder we'll see. I feel like
(29:59):
they made a good maneuver here to go for it
and to try it out well here with Memphis, yeah,
it's a it's a real we can trade for whatever now.
I mean, we have so many picks, so it's a
good move on their end. They're they're the flexible ones,
so they're waiting for a potential superstart to be available.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
My only other note with the Magic, because we had
talked about them as like a lot as a team
that's got to make a move because they need a
guard and they need some scoring and maybe even a
point guard, which they didn't they didn't really get obviously.
Bain sort of is a point guard shooting guard, but
he's more of a shooting guard I think. But we
talked about the Blazers with Anthony Simon's right, that was
a popular name. Kobe White with your Chicago Bulls came
up a lot. Now, both those guys. You know, they're
(30:38):
not as good as players as Desmond Bine, but they
wouldn't cost as much to in theory, I think get
them if you could. And then then there was then
the one level that maybe is right around Bain, probably
even higher, more of a point guard in the calvs
with Darius Carlin. But feels like they were like, we're
not doing that. As the injury as well. I don't
know if that came into play, but those are like
three guys that sort of came to mind right away.
I was like, well, they're not going to Orlando now.
I wonder if they stay put or if they go
(30:59):
somewhere or else. I don't know if I'm missing any
other potential trades we talked about at the time.
Speaker 5 (31:04):
Trey Young, Trey.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Young, yep, true. From the Hawks to the Magic.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
I mean, could they have gotten Drew Holliday, you know,
for a little bit less probably Derek White probably would
cast cost at least the same as Yeah, And I
don't really know if the Celtics would want to be
trading with the Magic since they're theoretically going to be
competing with each other. But that is one of the
questions for Orlando is the opportunity cost of it, because
now they can't make a move if anybody else comes available, right,
(31:31):
Like they couldn't do their version of the Pascal Siakam trade. Brother,
They're like, oh, that guy is perfect for our team.
Let's kick in some late first round picks, and now
we got them sign him to an extension going forward.
That's their choice, is Bain has their choice over everybody
else in the league, and we'll see how it plays
out for all.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Right, let's pivot to some other news here, sort of
related maybe in some way to Baine being dealt to
the Orlando Magic. According to Sham's over the weekend, the Heat,
Spurs and Rockets are Kevin Durant preferred trade destinations. People
across the NBA have been made aware in recent days
that those are the three teams Katie would commit to
with a long term extension. Now we talked to the
(32:09):
end of last week. Tasts a lot about hypothetical Katie
trades and those three teams that we just said they
were involved in the list that was five. But Katie's
can't making it sound like we want one of these
three now, not that the Suns have to play nice.
They don't have to. But then again, I don't know
why a trade. A team would want a trade for
an unhappy Kevin Durant who doesn't want to sign their
(32:31):
long term So it gets a little complicated here. But
what do you think?
Speaker 6 (32:34):
Well, you know, I was going through all the teams
this past weekend and wondering if the Rockets want to
give up their young core or part of their young
core for Kevin Durant, who is turning thirty seven. So
I'm more inclined to say no, they don't. I don't
know about this Timberwolves trade considering you know, they're on
the second apron, so they can't combine salaries, aggregate salaries,
(32:56):
as everyone is saying in the NBA media world, makes
it difficult. And I know him and Anthony Edwards get
along and their buds, and Anthony Edwards loved watching Kevin
Durant growing up. I don't know if they want to
make that change. I will say the Miami heat definitely
makes a lot of sense. I could see them wanting
(33:18):
Kevin Durant to be their number one offensive player. Really,
him and Hero and bam Adebayo. He loves the warm weather.
It's a really good defense, and so he would improve
their offense. He is to be their number one offensive player.
And just going through the Rockets and going through the Timberwolves,
what are teams willing to give up? Well, the Miami
Heat may be the best package. Really is what it
(33:39):
comes down to is what our teams willing to give up,
and the Miami Heat maybe giving it up, even though
the names won't be spectacular. It'll be Wiggins, Jovich and
you know at Duncan, Robinson or whoever. But that's what
it all comes down to. Do the Rockets want to
give up the young players? Do the Timberwolves just want
to tear it down again back to back seasons after
(34:01):
making two conference finals.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
And here the Miami Heat.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
So it kind of makes more sense to me that
the Heat would give it a shot.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Well, the guys at the Athletic wrote, league sources say
Durant prefers to play for the spurs of the Rockets,
but there are complicating factors with both of those negotiations
that make the deal look unlikely. And then in that
same article they did sort of revisit what was rumored
what back around the trade deadline, the idea of Katie
going to the Wolves and they sort of like rehash
that how it is tough and whether you know this
part is weird, like it sounds like to me, Katie's
(34:31):
camp has told Chops these are the teams. And I
didn't say Minnesota when I said that, so it feels
like I don't want to go up there. But again,
Phoenix does not have to play nice with this. They
can trade them anywhere. It's not like he's badly be
able with the no trade class, so exactly, yeah, what
do you think?
Speaker 5 (34:46):
That was one of my first takeaways is that Kevin
Durant doesn't want to pay taxes or live where it's cold,
So maybe bad news for Toronto, yes, but this is
Katie exerting what little leverage he has, Like everybody knows
he's going to be traded between now in the draft.
Basically like you're saying, no trade clause, he has no
say so where he goes. So it's on Kevin Durant
(35:08):
to basically talk to these teams, the Heat, the Spurs
and the Rockets, say make your best pitch because I
will come to your team. He say, I'm putting Khalil
wear to the Heat. He's saying don't be stingy with
your picks or your young players to the Spurs and
the Rockets, because I will actually re sign with your
team rather than a team like the Timberwolves or another
mystery team like maybe the Clippers, though they are a
warm weather team, so perhaps they have a better chance
(35:30):
of keeping him around. This is all he can do, yeah, yeah, yeah,
really to influence at all where he's gonna go. But
it's on the Suns to get the best deal they
possibly can. And if that ends up being the Heat,
the Spurs of the Rockets, great, we'll see what they
end up valuing the most. If it's players, maybe it's
the Heat, I don't Maybe Khalil wear is like the
(35:50):
best player they could get. I don't know. But if
it's the Spurs and the Rockets, that's more like rebuild mode, right,
And that's not necessarily what Matt ish Bea wants to do.
But Kevin Durant's telling these three teams, I will make
it worth your while if you trade for me, right.
Does it play out that way? I don't know, but
at least he's saying I'll be around.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Yeah, I mean, I saw Zilla share a bunch of
other wild card teams, because you know, a team can
come out of nowhere in these weird things and suddenly
they're making a deal for him. He was wondering teams
that are desperate, so Ziller said, kinks they could be desperate. Yes,
Philadelphia might be desperate. Okay, Denver could be desperate. The Clippers,
(36:30):
he listed them as a team that maybe is desperate,
and then he said the Lakers are probably not desperate,
but it truly interesting if they convinced themselves they were.
So it made me laugh Zilla's newsletter there. But this
feels like it is gonna happen. Like, be honest with me.
When you saw the trade happens over the weekend on Sunday,
did you think it was Kevin Durant got dealt? Like,
(36:50):
I mean, that was my immediate reaction until you're like,
doesn't invain what is Durant going to the Grizzlies. Oh no,
it doesn't mean it's going to magic, But I mean,
it just feels like it could happen anyway.
Speaker 5 (37:00):
It here.
Speaker 6 (37:00):
Yeah, it feels like the first time in a while
where we're waiting for a trade to happen, and it's
going to happen.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (37:07):
Nothing really jumps out to me as a trade of
a huge player that was destined to trade be traded
over the next couple of weeks, and it's sure feels
like it's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
I mean, Anthony Davis that one. We were pretty.
Speaker 6 (37:20):
Sure Anthony Davis wore that's all folks for a while,
you know.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Like that.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
Yeah, you're right. And he didn't get traded at the deadline.
It was during the summer. Pardon is a good one though,
I mean he quit playing for the Rockets team and
got traded. Yeah, yeah, also hard in getting traded to
the Sixers. Also hard and getting traded to the Clippers.
It's always the writing on the wall. He's very out there,
you know what, he is going to get traded. This
is everybody's known, this is going to happen. I think
(37:46):
this is going to happen. Draft Day, Okay, so we
got we got another week in rumors.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Okay, some of the some of the you know, plugged
in people are saying it's happening sooner and later. And
that's how long we got till then? What's that? Twenty fifth,
twenty six.
Speaker 5 (37:58):
The draft is next Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
It's next.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
What, No, it's Thursday, Wednesday and Thursday.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
It's back.
Speaker 6 (38:03):
It's a Wednesday Thursday. Fun now in the middle of
the week. Okay, well it.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Was last year.
Speaker 6 (38:09):
Remember they televised day to second round.
Speaker 5 (38:13):
Televised second round. That's pretty hilarious.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
That's so silly.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yeah, is that gonna happen again?
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're gonna televise it. Yes, yeah, I
was on ESPN.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
It's definitely gonna be on TV. Yeah, well you'd be watching,
probably not, but they'll be doing day two. Uh. Well,
do you think it's gonna happen on Draft Day like him? Sure,
I'll except I think it's gonna happen before before, Yeah,
just because if there's going to in theory be picks included,
and those teams are going to maybe want those picks
in advance to know where they're going. The Suns, I
guess in this instance would want those picks in advance.
(38:45):
I want, but not that that couldn't happen on Draft night.
And you've seen a lot of times. Hey, you draft
for us too.
Speaker 6 (38:50):
I want Adam Silver announcing it. I want him coming.
Speaker 5 (38:53):
Up to the.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
He drops the Southern Lawyer on amazing he's a East
Coast lawyer, an actual lawyer. Hey, we got a trade.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
I got about their fourth pick of the traft. We
gotta trade. He should not allow Kevin Durant trade to
go down during the finals. Kevin Durant is too big
of a name to be traded during the finals.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Desmond Bane was okay to you.
Speaker 5 (39:16):
One hundred percent. Yes. If you say Desmond Bain and
Kentavious Caldwell Pope were traded and you're out at a pool,
people are gonna say who.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
If you say Kevin Durantz traded, people go, what Kevin Durant?
The finals are?
Speaker 5 (39:28):
Yeah? Back, No, the Finals aren't on. We didn't play
on Father's Day for some reason.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
Hey, Game five Tonights should have played last night. Let's
stick with the Rockets here. Some other news. Steven Adams
will be returning to the Rockets for next season and beyond,
as the Vets center agreed to a new three year,
thirty nine million dollar contract extension over the weekend that'll
keephim there in Houston and takes him off the free
agent market. So it's a name that had come up
when we were talking about top centers on the free
(39:55):
agency market. You know who's like, obviously the Lakers have
wanted a center. A couple other teams. We talked with
the Grizzlies maybe needing a center with the ed injury,
Steven Adams staying in Houston.
Speaker 6 (40:06):
You're you gonna add a good price, you know, thirteen
for thirty nine. Not a huge pay raise actually thinking
about it, looking at his numbers, which were twelve point
six this season, and I'm surprised at how young Steven had. Yeah,
he was waiting for that, right because it feels like
we've been talking about him for a long time because
he came out of the draft and was pivotal for
(40:28):
okay see immediately basically in twenty thirteen. He's only thirty
two coming up this year, so it's a good sign
for three years, it feels like it. Even though he
missed a year because of injury, it feels like he'll
be he'll be pretty tough.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
This feels like his last deal, like in our heads
like he's like thirty seven, thirty eight with that's it. It
feels like that to me, like, oh man, good for him,
got his final payday here, but he's only thirty two.
Speaker 5 (40:52):
Yeah, he's still pretty good.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
When he plays.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
He played with Derek Fisher and Kendrick Perkins on the Thunder.
That's how old this guy is. But also, yeah, yeah,
he makes us very old. I thought Steven Adams was
just a veteran leadership guy for the Rockets coming off
an injury. He didn't play very much to start the
season at all, like ten minutes per game, and then
due to other injuries for the Rockets, people picking up
various maladies, he kind of became important to them during
(41:16):
the regular season. Then he was awesome in the playoffs
against the Golden State Warriors. Twenty three offensive rebounds in
seven games. He had seventeen points, five boards in that
big game six win against the Warriors. He still got
it a little bit like he's gonna be able to
offensive rebound, you know about that, that's guaranteed. You know,
he's gonna be able to set screens. He's not gonna
get smaller as he gets older, and you know, maybe
(41:39):
he's not doing much by the time he's thirty five
years old at the end of this contract, but they'll
value having him around as a good guy who makes
everybody laugh and who understands the professional aspects of the game.
So cool for Steven Adams.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
Yeah, and you're right about like the Rockets were just
better when he was on the floor. Started when he
was in the regular season, we started to get more
time and then obviously it like translated into the playoffs
against the Warriors. He was a plus forty four with
the big key we on the court there and they
were like a minus forty four when he wasn't out there.
So like, he's still good, he's still a positive player.
And yeah, this is not a crazy contract. The three
years basically forty million, So they make quick work on
(42:11):
this deal. And now they have until June twenty ninth
to make a decision on Fred van Vliet and his
forty four point nine million dollar team option. There's a
mutual interest for a reunion between these, you know, the
player and the team. Sounds like Fansleet's going to stay there,
just waiting to see what it will be for. But
they have until a little bit to make that decision.
(42:32):
Some other news, the Knicks still looking for a coach.
They are planning to meet with former Kings coach Mike
Brown and former Grizzlies coach Taylor Jenkins this week for
their head coaching job. As of now, they are considered
those two the leading candidates to replace Tom Thibodeau, who
the Knicks fired on June third, shortly after that first
East Finals appearance in twenty five years. And then they
(42:52):
called every single employed coach and asked if they would
be interested in coming to New York. Now, apparently the Mavericks,
Jason Kid and the Schruggle Bulls, but Billy Donovan are
two currently employed coaches that New York might circle back
to in the coming weeks. Is what I saw, James
Edwards the third right.
Speaker 5 (43:10):
Billy Donovan getting an extension, though.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yes I did. This is the new breaking news, so
he's earned it.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
He earned it.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
Unbelievable. Yeah, what nude photos does he have of the
front office or ownership? But anyway, Taylor Jenkins, Mike Brown,
your reaction to them being the front runners.
Speaker 5 (43:26):
Here, Look, the Necks are casting a wide net and
they just went to a bunch of places where it
said no fishing first. So this is fine. I mean,
they're going after guys who everybody assumed they would be
talking to, kind of except for Michael Malone. I think
is kind of interesting that maybe he's not in the
mix here, but definitely a Tom Thibodeaux analog. I would
say they're pros to both. Mike Brown has been a
successful defensive coach when he was coaching Lebron James with
(43:48):
the Cleveland Cavaliers. He was a successful offensive coach when
he was coaching the Kings, though they never did anything
besides win three first round playoff games. He's more experienced
as a coach, won titles with the Warriors, so he's
got some credit. I believe Taylor Jenkins kind of the same.
He's really good at experimenting with lineups. We know how
many injuries the Grizzlies had over the past few seasons.
(44:08):
They never took a step back when those guys went down,
except for the year that everybody went down. The development
of young players, I think is something that Taylor Jenkins
brings to the table as well. Desmond Bain got great
and that's not including guys like Aldama Conchar Scottie Pippen
junior like who became real NBA players after kind of
becoming scrap he fines. I think that's something that the
(44:29):
Knicks were missing out on. So you can see the
two reasons that the Knicks would be interested in both
of these guys. They're like, we got a veteran who's
good and can maybe juice up our offense. He's well respected,
and Mike Brown. And we've got maybe a more experimental
guy in Taylor Jenkins who's able to do the things
that Tibbs did it in missing, mixing with your lineups
(44:50):
and getting the best out of your young players. So
surely they'll end up hiring Rick Runson. But it's not.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
I'm kidding.
Speaker 5 (44:57):
They're doing all right. They're just they're the only team
with and with an opening right now, so they can
talk to whoever they want to.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Yeah, the only one looking for a coach.
Speaker 6 (45:05):
It's a good point, and maybe that's why we're hearing
about every single one, also because it is New York
and everybody wants to write about every single one. Because
have we heard this many coaches being interviewed by or pursued.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
They were denied interview requests.
Speaker 6 (45:22):
Yeah, but the Jason Kidd situation, that's not dead yet.
In my opinion, I think Jay Kidd has had a
bit of a tough time this season and he could
want out.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
And he could be using this as leverage for his
next contract exception too, sure what some people think.
Speaker 6 (45:38):
Sure, and he will probably enjoy the next experience even
more even though it is New York, because it's been
it's been a tough one for Jason Kidd, so that
one was not dead.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Uh. The Mike Brown like name obviously being included here
makes sense. I own I could see it working. I
think he'd be fun with the New York media for sure,
because I think you have to remember, with whoever does
take this head coaching job, you're basically the voice piece
for that franchise because Leon Rose doesn't talk to anybody does, Like,
he never does an interview, never does a press conference,
so like it's everything's gonna be going through you. Like
(46:11):
Brown seems to have a pretty uh you know, fun
attitude with the media or like good relationship is funny.
I'm not saying that's why you're picking him, but he's
a good coach too. The best jokes that would be
high on the list of qualifications, just like remind reminded
of Like, yeah, Leon Rose never talks here, so he
still hasn't talked after firing tubes. No, No, I guess
(46:31):
he's like, well, anything I say is just gonna be
like flipped around and pulled apart. So just don't say anything.
It's a little odd though, all right, So we'll keep
your eye on that.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
All right.
Speaker 3 (46:40):
Let's get to Game five the NBA Finals, that is tonight,
pivotal game. We're back in okase. Instead of like going
through things to watch for and X factors, like we've
done this and just like drove it into the ground
at this point, I tho that'd be fun to ask
you guys, what's one stat so far through four games
that you think best explains and where we're at or
(47:01):
maybe where we're going here in this best of three
now finals TK you want to get started.
Speaker 5 (47:05):
Twenty to nineteen. Okay, you know what it is? No
clutch points scored this series. Indiana is up one. Literally,
Tyrese Haliburton's jumper in Game one is the difference in
this series. It would be three to one thunder had
Tyrese not that knocked that one down. Indiana's six or
fifteen from the field during clutch games here Oklahoma City
(47:27):
five for thirteen and that's why Indiana is up two
to one. In these clutch games, you dig a little
deeper four to one offensive rebounding advantage for the Pacers
in the clutch. Those are the two that Pascal Siakam
grabbed in Game one when the Thunder went small. That's
how close this series has been between these two awesome teams.
This is why we've had such a great series thus
(47:47):
far two to two. Outside of Game two, every game
has felt like it could go either way. The Pacers
outplayed the Thunder in the clutch during the first two
or durings games one to three in this series, and
then Shake just Alexander took over fifteen in the fourth
in Game four. Couple that with the Thunder defense and
they were able to pull one out. If it gets
down to the clutch again, Shay's gonna have to be
(48:09):
just as good as he was in Game four, because
his Game one in three performance left a little bit
to be desired. Meanwhile, the Pacers feel so comfortable in
these clutch games up until Game four, like they feel
no pressure. I'm sure when they're down at any point
when it gets to be clutch time five points five
or five minutes or less, they feel no fear because
they've been playing in those situations all season or I
(48:31):
mean all season long. BEFO, We're being honest. At least
since the start of January. First we got the Haliburton
four point game winner, we got Obi Topping going nuts.
They've done it all year and they've been one point
better than the Thunder in the clutch so far, and
that's why they have a chance to still win this series.
They got to win one more game in Oklahoma City
to pull it off. Basically, it's a.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
Good one twenty to nineteen.
Speaker 6 (48:51):
What a stat you're going with, Well, the Pacers have
made fourteen more threes than the Thunder and it kind
of reminds me of the twenty twenty three NBA Finals
win the Heat made fifteen more threes than the Nuggets
and still lost. And then you know, returned to last
year when the Celtics were splashing threes on the MAVs
and won that series. But this feels like the Thunder
(49:11):
could be that Nuggets team that doesn't need to hit
threes all the time but still come out victorious. As
you said that, Yeah, Indiana's got to win one in Oka.
See I got this stat from law Murray as well.
For the twenty fourth time here in NBA history, we
have a two two NBA Finals after both teams won
and lost a game on each team's floor. In seventeen
(49:32):
of the twenty three previous series, the winner of the
game five went on to win the championship. It sounds
like it's pivotal, No, highly pivotal. Dang, Yeah, seventeen of
the twenty three, So yeah, this is big.
Speaker 3 (49:43):
My number I'm gonna go with is thirty five because
that's how many free throw attempts Jalen Williams has had
here in this series, and okay see, has shot more
free throws in total than Indiana won twenty five to
one oh two. So that's a twenty three you know,
difference there between the two teams at the free throw line,
which again was something we came in and thought maybe
the Pacers will actually win that because that's something okay see,
(50:05):
they don't through the regular season like they were low
in those and that's they give up a lot of
free throws and they don't get there all that much
outside of their main guy SGA thirty six free throws,
but that's right in line with his averages. But what
Jalen Williams is doing that's impressive to me and really
keeping a minute in game four, we talked about that
head down go at the rim eleven for eleven at
the line, Tak, I think you said. It was probably
from Low Murray who pointed out, like, this guy has
(50:28):
never attempted Jallen Williams double digit free throw attempts in
back to back games. He didn't do it in college,
didn't do it in re in his pro career until
games three and four of the Finals. So yeah, I
just think like he Jalen Williams has taken on more
of a starter play starter role as the Finals has
gone on here and SGA has gone the opposite way,
(50:49):
and it's obviously worked out, especially having a little left
in the tank for game four, So I think that's
going to continue here. And it's like they only have
one Ni Smith, and yeah, they're fine with them hard
on SGA, but like Smith we've talked about, can get
in foul trouble, especially when you put the pressure on him.
So I'm just watching that in game five. That was
one of my weird prop bets too. He has yet
to hit the the over Jalen Williams. What was it
(51:11):
wasn't it thirty? I think it was twenty nine? And
a half. He had to hit thirty points in one
of these games, which I thought he would. Maybe it's tonight,
and maybe it's one of these final three games. But
he's been just like really good, slowly like getting going,
and this series went on.
Speaker 6 (51:23):
Everybody loves talking about Shay the free throw merchant, but
Jalen Williams and Shay basically have the same free gears
attempted this series. Thirty six, Shay leads and Jalen went
right behind him at thirty five. Yeah, he's been great, all.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
Right, So Game five tonight, Okay, see you think takes
us at homes praying for another close one.
Speaker 5 (51:41):
That's all I care about it.
Speaker 3 (51:41):
Yeah, I know, we just don't want that blowout that
everyone's terrified is at one point coming. Just care for
a close game. We're going to be back here tomorrow
to talk about Game five of the NBA Finals. I
appreciate you joining us. Hit the light buttons, subscribe five
star ratings and reviews until tomorrow at TENNEM Eastern climb rse.
Speaker 5 (51:58):
You heard it here first, have a great time, turn up.
Love you guys awesome.
Speaker 6 (52:02):
Thanks for joining us, and remember how'd you guys enjoy
your happy Father's day.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
It was happy, It was happy.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Did you do anything special or or you know, get
anything done for you?
Speaker 6 (52:14):
And washed, ried, and folded three loads of laundry last
name another dad who did that? Three loads, real real
size loads to big, real size loads.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Yeah, yeah, not these petty ones.
Speaker 3 (52:30):
Did you get up to anything?
Speaker 5 (52:31):
I went to a supermercando and some delicious Mexican foods
and then prepared them for my family these guys. Was awesome.
Speaker 3 (52:39):
Yeah, there you go, JD. What about yourself? I mean,
you were just dealing with this board over here.
Speaker 4 (52:42):
Yeah yeah, just working, doing dad stuff, doing dad stuff.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
You're the dad of this podcast. All right, We will
see you guys tomorrow.
Speaker 5 (52:52):
Race to Day
Happy Monday everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I hope you're feeling blessed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm just out here meditating, sipping on a big old
cup of shrimp, sipping on a big old, big old
cup of shrimp, big old, tall, tall glass or shrimp.
They said, what do you want? They said, what do
you want to eat? I said, I don't want no food.
I said, bring me a tall bring me a big
old tall glance or shrimps. You see all old shrimps.
(00:26):
You got five tam fifty two shrimps in there. You'll
probably never seen a shrimp before in your life.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Good mornings, sweet world, and welcome to the Now Dunks
podcast on the Athletic Network. It's Monday, June sixteenth, twenty
twenty five. I'm Jay Skeets here in the Classic Factory,
and alongside me as always.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Tasmelis Transaction fans. This one's for you.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Next to him, it's the bearded one shirt back on Boo.
It's herby Hey and over Yonder making the magic happen.
Super producer JD. Hello Darius, JD. Stick with you for
a second. Things sound a little different to me. Yeah,
I know. We have a lot of new technology over
at your desk. Is it freaking you out a little bit?
It sounds like I'm scuba diving. Yeah, okay, it feels
(01:20):
good to everybody.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Else hopefully, Yeah, drop a lake if it sounds better.
I've been working on this for the last ten hours straight.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
So we got what do we got? Talk it through.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
We got a new roadcaster to pro to something or other.
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
What do you mean?
Speaker 5 (01:35):
You don't know?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Buy it? Okay, you say that because you had a
long weekend. Put it together. Troubleshooting.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
There's always something skeets.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
There's always something.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, yeah, fascinating. It's gonna take me a while we
get used to this, but uh, you.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Know what it is.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
I think there's a slight delay and I'm going to work.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
On But as long as the stream team are giving
the thumbs up that we sound okay.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
It sounds good, Paul, it's just up here.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
It's just up here in our cans. We can deal
with that. Hello to everybody here on a Monday morning,
Hit the like buttons, subscribe podcast listeners. Five star ratings
and reviews. Game five of the NBA Finals tonight, excuse me,
a pivotal Game five? That series tattoo too that's a
pivotal game five. We're gonna discuss that one later because
(02:22):
the Southern lawyer paid us a visit this weekend.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
Good sir, we got all sales a try.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah, what a Father's Day treat for you guys. Yesterday,
the Memphis Grizzlies trading Desmond Bane to the Orlando Magic
for Contavious Caldwell, Pope Cole Anthony, four unprotected first round picks,
and one first round pick swap. I'll give you those
actual picks. You got the sixteenth overall pick in this
(02:50):
year's draft. Easy, that's going from Orlando to Memphis. Oh yeah,
you said that one was easy. Not this next one.
A first round pick in twenty twenty six. It's probably
gonna come from the Suns. But you know it's a
it's a convoluted pick. Oh, like, you'll do your head
in trying to figure out how it could possibly be
Washington's or Phoenix is at all?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Anyway, it's a twenty six pick, and then the Magic's
twenty eight and thirty unprotected first round picks, and then
the swap rights to a first round pick in twenty nine,
which is top two protected. But anyway, tasks. That's a
lot of draft capital going to the Memphis Grizzlies for
Desmond Bane. I think we can start on the Magic
side of things if you want to, and then pivot
to the Memphis Grizzlies. But what was your first reaction
(03:30):
when you saw the details and what this deal was?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Like everyone's seeing it. That's a lot of picks. That
is a lot that they gave up.
Speaker 6 (03:40):
And we'll get into every single pick and what it
means and what it is later, because it's boring to
start with that, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I just did.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
We just did.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Oh no, we can get way deeper than that, you know,
a week out.
Speaker 6 (03:53):
Yeah, I think three are pretty simple and that one
next year that's the complicated.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (03:57):
I can't wait to talk about that anyway. It is
a lot of picks for Desmond Bay. It is exciting
on the other side to see an Eastern Conference team
throw some punches and go for it here, right, because
I think this Magic team will be far better next year.
They should be a top three team in the Eastern
Conference standings. They should be Last year they won forty
(04:18):
seven games when they were all healthy. Last season, you
put in Desmond Bay, I still think this is gonna
be an incredible defensive team and their offense is going
to get way better. Imagine all the attention he is
going to get playing with Franz Wagner and Paul Boncerra.
Those guys are going to get space and that is
going to help them. They're going to play so many
dribble handoffs there at the elbows, and you got to
(04:38):
just respect Desmond Bay and his numbers.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
He's a great on ball creator.
Speaker 6 (04:43):
He probably did that a little too much, just like
Jalen Suggs did a little too much of that in Orlando,
so I could see him attacking tons of close ups
because you're gonna have to give Bancaro and Wagner lots
of respect.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I think this makes Jalen Suggs way better.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
All those stats and all that, we can break it down,
but he is just an incredible three point shooter. While
the Magic just stunk last year, they were the worst
three point shooting team. They're the worst in a decade
at thirty one point eight percent. This guy is far better.
I think this team just it gets better everywhere. It
is definitely a worry that you give out. You giveaway
(05:17):
every single one of your picks. In terms of the
Atlanta Magic, how they get better around those four plus
Wendell Carter Junior. That is a very good question, because
they got none essentially now, So that's the question. But
I'm very excited to see them in an Eastern Conference where, yeah,
you never know.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
How good way because Tatum's injury to the Celtics maybe
takes them down a peg. Obviously, Damian Lillard's injury with
the Bucks. Yep, You've got good Pacers teams, You've got
good Knicks teams. You still having theory a good Calves team. Yeah,
Pacers currently constructed.
Speaker 6 (05:45):
Pacers, Nicks, Magic and the Calves. That's that's the scramble
right there at the top. I gotta think. I think
this will be a really really good offense. I think
they're gonna love having guys that you have to respect.
You know, didn't have enough of that in Memphis and
now these guys playing together and we can We'll get
(06:06):
into that, but I am excited period.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Okay, what was your first reaction to this tk a
trade during the NBA Finals and players that we actually know,
that was my first reaction, Like they have been trades before,
it was like the Thunder or the Nuggets trading a
future pick for a late first round pick, not guys
who actually matter to both teams.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
My second reaction was one of the greatest name for
name trades of all time, Desmond Bane for Contavious Caldwell Pope.
Those were like top five minutes in the NBA. Switching sides,
there's two parts to it, for everything, the basketball and
the business. I think it's a great fit basketball wise,
for the magic. They're getting the three point shooting that
they desperately need. They thought KCP was that guy. Clearly
he wasn't. I don't necessarily think that one shooter instantly
(06:48):
fixes their shooting, but Bain helps. He's also a good
secondary playmaker. He's also a good secondary ball handler. He
cares on defense. Definitely an upgrade over KCP. I do
think Orlando's gonna have to get a lot more creative
on offense. They still don't really have a point guard playmaker.
Suggs isn't that kind of guy who gets into the
lane and makes plays for other people. Polo's a good playmaker,
(07:10):
Franz is a good playmaker. Bane's a good playmaker. All
these guys are wired to score However, yeah, I don't
want to see Bane just standing in the corner like
he's KCP. That was one of the problems. They didn't
know how to use him. I don't know if Jamal
Mosley is the guy to unlock everybody, but he's gonna
help at least on the offensive end. The question is
the price that they paid. They had to pay a
pick to get off the KCP contract. I think that's
(07:31):
one of those that's thrown in there. Bin is a
guy that does miss time thirteen forty two to twenty
four games the last three seasons. This is a Magic
team that was completely banged up last year, missing Pollo
for a huge chunk of the season, Franz for a
huge chunk of the season, mok Wagner went out for
the season, Suggs went out for the season. So adding
another injury guy to injury guys, that's a little bit
of a worry. They're losing some depth. I'm not necessarily
(07:54):
worried about the picks they're giving up because more than
likely Orlando's drafting eighteen to thirty in the first round
most of the time. Who knows injuries could happen, Twenty
thirty could end up being a delicious pick for the Grizzlies.
I'm more so worried about like tass Is saying, this
is the magic team. Now it's gonna be Polo Franz, Sugs,
and Desmond Bain locked in basically until twenty twenty nine.
(08:16):
Polo is gonna get paid next season. That's a very
expensive team. In the second Apron era, it kind of
makes more sense to have two really highly paid players,
not four, especially when you trade all of your draft picks,
which means you then can't acquire the guys around those four.
That's literally what was happening in Memphis.
Speaker 6 (08:32):
Yeah, Yeah, Suggs is a descending contract that gets cheaper
and cheaper, but yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Gets more and more.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Ye, they are guys on max deals after the twenty
five to twenty six season. Then you said Sugs like, yeah,
thirty million, but I guess it does decrease. But Bains
does make a ton of money between like what thirty
seven million and that only goes up up up to
about forty five million over the next four years.
Speaker 6 (08:54):
Come on, TV, deal, keep this salary cat raising for
those Yeah, and there's big drop off after you know,
those four Wendell Curb Junior is probably your center. They
have Jonathan Isaac under contract for a good amount of
time here as a backup.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Other than that, yeah, they won't be able to get
them through.
Speaker 6 (09:11):
The draft, which is a thing that here, with the
second apron and how restricted it is, you make sense
to be able to draft somebody for cheaper, especially guys
are gonna be sticking around in NCAA because of how
much they get paid off the court now.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
So yeah, that is the problem. There's no doubt about that.
They paid a lot.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
But it's a huge bet obviously on that four that
you just said, and then these other pieces and what
they have there. We have an identity. We're a defensive
minded team and we look at the east landscape and
we think there's a path there to be. Like you said,
tasks like man, I think they're laughing or they're loving it.
If they're top three. It's like people are like, can
you get even into that, you know, sort of top
four and start winning playoff series because you are sort
of committing yourself at least for a year or two
(09:53):
to this four And maybe they can't because you guys
went through it. I mean on paper, this is awesome.
They're the worst three point shooting team in the league,
and they had a guy that shoots forty one percent
for his career from deep on a pretty good amount
of shots. Like it's like, you know, on his career,
it's like six and a half. He had that one
year where Joe was out where he was like shooting
like nine threes per game and that was his worst
three point shooting percentage of his career and that was
(10:15):
still at thirty eight percent. So that's a I mean,
it makes sense. And then he doesn't like your defense
doesn't really fall off because of him. He's pretty good
at you know, point of attack defense. He does bring
a little playmaking like he's he's a damn good player.
Everyone's like, oh, you trade all this for a non
all start, Well, he's an all star. If he's in
the Eastern Conference at one point he'll have made a crappy,
dumb all start. Maybe he would he's in the West.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
You're not gonna make a point for the game. Yeah,
that's good. It's good. It's very good.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
But they are just wow, this is a roll of
the dice, no doubt, which is exciting.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
Totally. Yeah, they're trying to see a team push all
in and now it's a huge bet on Polo getting
a lot better. I think he kind of took a
step back actually this season. He was awesome to start
the year. When he came back a little out of sorts.
I think they both had core muscle injuries, right him, yeah,
and Franz. But the efficiency was a little bit And
that's why to me, it's got to be some more
interesting stuff going on offensively for the Magic. You're mentioning
(11:05):
dribble handoffs. They didn't do that at.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
All last season.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
That was a big part of the offense for Minnesota
or for Memphis. They completely switched things up, bringing in
all the new assistants. Now, eventually that went poorly for
the coaching staff, but they were a funky offense. It
was kind of like we're moving around a lot and
then just one on one, one on one, one on one.
The Magic will do something simpler or similar. But I
think they they're just gonna have to honestly hire an
(11:28):
offensive coordinator because I don't know that Jamal Mosley has
big time plans on that end. They'll still be great defensively,
they just need to see Paulo get better at being
a playmaker, a more intuitive playmaker. He's still early in
his career, so he's kind of making the first reads
on stuff. Yeah, Franzi, I think is a little bit
better as a pick and roll guy. But if he's
running the pick and roll so Bain is just standing
over there, then that's just the top four. They're a
(11:50):
super top heavy team now, so now you have to
hope Anthony Black is good. You have to help Tristan
de Silvas. Maybe Jet Howard turns into something. I think
those are more if he bets, because this could be
a team that has four really good players and then
five question marks from five to ten.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (12:04):
I do like how they're betting on these four guys.
They're trying to emulate a little bit what the Celtics did.
It's a poor man Celtics team. When you get into
your Tatum and Brown, they're not Tatum and Brown, I
think you're saying, yeah, Palm Frons, Yeah sure. And then
you know Suggs trying to emulate Drew Holliday and Derek
(12:25):
White and and now Baying.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
They're different types of guys.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
But I do think there will be plenty of catch
and shoots opportunities for for both those guys, both the
magic guards. Now Jalen Suggs, he had a terrible season
shooting the three ball. With the guys out, he shot
thirty one point four percent. But with Bound Carroll in there,
those first five games, he was awesome. I mean they
were really good. The first five games. He was forty
two percent from three. I know you're smiling trade because
(12:49):
he didn't shoot.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
That was the the Anthony Meltain era the NBA.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Why because I said Anthony Moultain.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
Yeah, it was also who in the first five end
of the season.
Speaker 6 (12:57):
Yeah, But Jalen Sugs had a good year last year.
He did, she almost shot great season. Yeah, so was
that in an anomaly where he shot almost forty percent
from three. He was also forty point seven percent from
three on catch and shoots last year, Like the guy
can play. This year, he only played ninety seven minutes
with Franz and Ben Carrow. So the guy was awesome
(13:18):
when they played together. So this is just assuming that
they played together. In Jalen Slugs, if there's three guys
running the offense, he can be the catch and shoot guy.
And that's why he kind of emulates Derek White to me,
just be ready, man, just be ready to fire. And
last year again he shoots a lot and they need
him and Baine to shoot a lot. So those four
guys rotating it. Yeah, the rest of them is definitely
(13:38):
a question. But I got faith in those four, right.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I was making some comparisons talking to the guys in
the WhatsApp group and all that, Like, I do think
it could go poorly. You hope it's not. If you're
a Magic fan of course, and you're like, yeah, Baine
is really good. He'd maybe even underrated. Yeah, I took
a lot of draft capital, but like Trey said, one
of those picks was to get off one of the
guys were sending out in Cacpte, maybe even Cole Anthony,
who I think is under contract for a couple year
as well. Anyway, I wonder though, if this could be
(14:02):
similar to the Hawks trading for de Jonte Murray in
the summer of twenty twenty two, which did catch us
by surprise too, with the amount of picks that went
out that was three first round picks and one pick swap.
This one obviously one more. But there's some similarities between
maybe those two guys, not how way they play, but
like the age of de Jonta Murray at the time
to Desmond Bain sort of just hitting their prime. Both
(14:25):
good not great players. You know, Dejonte had made one
All Star Game, Bain zero. Both in the West though
coming east, both guys that have had like struggles staying healthy.
Because de Jonte missed his rookie season. No, he missed out. Yeah,
he missed about half his rookie season. Then he missed
his entire third season Bain Trey, you said it. He's
he like misses like twenty five percent of the games,
(14:45):
like a lot of times here over his five year career.
Like he's he just has like every injury known to man,
like hips and groins and ankles and toes, like he's
done it all. It sort of feels like And then
the other similarity is the Hawks brought to Jonte Murray
in to like solve their defense, like help with our defense.
That didn't work on the.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Flip side magic Bans coming in.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
No, Bain's coming in help with our offense. It's the
complete reverse. Yeah, and it's like how much can one
guy do? So, Like I think it's better though, just
my final point on that is like this fit is
better Bain coming into Orlando, then Dejonte was ever coming
into the Hawks. But again same idea of like, look
at where we are in the East. We think we're
like like a five hundred team. We can sort of
(15:28):
catapult ourselves up didn't work for Atlanta. They pivoted out
of de Jonte Murray. I think it'll work better with
Bane in Orlando. But you could see a guin similar.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
The Magic are just way better than the Hawks were.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Why they weren't though? When the Hawks made that trade,
they were a better team than than the Magic were
last year. Are you just gonna blame their own injuries?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
The Magic were a forty seven win team ten years ago.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Last year they weren't.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
Last year with twenty three twenty four, yeah, ben Cara
twenty three twenty four, they won forty seven games.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
So last year, yeah, Franz was hurt.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
They they were a five team.
Speaker 6 (15:55):
They didn't have obliques man Franz and bon Cao both
had oblique injuries. They didn't They're two guys didn't play basketball.
Dejontay Murray was brought in to solve everything on this
team in Atlanta yeah, that obviously did not work. And
I know we look at these draft picks, we say, whoa,
that's a lot. You really can't tell until a few
years later. I know it's boring to say that, but
you really can't tell what they gave up until years later.
(16:18):
Like the Rudy go Bear trade. It was also four
monster picks. They just made two conference finals. Looks a
lot better now than it did the day of, and
so we could see I'm.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Team FM picks, but I'm also with these aprons. You
do have to go back to like, this is four
guys you're spending a ton on and you better be
damn well convinced that they're going to be like challenging
for you know, an Eastern Conference title or even further
like the Knicks did when they made the Crazy Bridges trade,
or they at least gave a lot of draft capital
and they're like, that's our guy that's going to help
(16:48):
us get to the next level. No, he did.
Speaker 6 (16:50):
They gotta be good, there's no, there's no they have
to be good and just to get into the picks.
So it's number sixteen this year, and then their own
picks in twenty twenty eight and twenty thirty, when the.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Expect to be good.
Speaker 6 (17:01):
All these guys signed through you know, the next three
seasons and then five seasons. So where are those picks
going to be? Yes, so you gotta assume they're in
the twenties. But you know, who knows at this point.
The next year is the juicy one because it could
be Orlando's. Again, it could be any pick in the draft,
depending on where Orlando is, but it also could be Phoenix's. Ye,
(17:23):
with all these picks w ups, so it could be
anywhere from ten to twenty five. Again, so it's it's
different when you sit back and look at it after
the fact, but right now it looks like a lot picks.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
How would you then grade the Orlando side of things?
Throw a trade grade on it for the Magic getting
Desmond Bane with what they had to give up.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
I think it's probably between a B and a B plus, Okay,
So I don't know, like a eighty seven. It's good. Yeah,
that's good, exactly like I like the fit with Baine.
I don't think he takes anything away from the Magic,
and he's going to add stuff. He's gonna add three
point shooting. When if Suggs picks up an injury for
ten games, he can be the main perimeter ball handler
(18:05):
for the Magic. Right the question to me becomes, just
how are they going to get better in the future,
because this is their top four. I love their top four.
I'm a Wendell Carter junior fan. In general, probably an
area they could upgrade if they ever wanted to, But
now it's gonna be tough for them to upgrade them one.
If their bench guys don't hit it all, then they're
really really top heavy, and you're looking at the Knicks
where you're like, wait a second, we've got six guys
(18:26):
we can play. That doesn't work out? How good are
they gonna be? Preseason, I thought the Magic were in
the same tier as the Cavs and the Pacers. They
both just had awesome seasons. I think they'll be good
again next year, like Tasa saying, I think the Knicks
will be good again next year like Tasa saym But
I think Orlando probably slots in competing for number four
with a Boston team that's missing Jason Tatum, but then
(18:47):
we'll get him back. Milwaukee, I think is a question mark.
Detroit could get better. They've got ways to get better,
and they just had a fun playoff run playing against
the Knicks in the first round. So I think they're
four to six, which is a great spot for the
Magic to be if things hit right and maybe they
make a conference finals. I think more than likely they'll
probably win one playoff round kind of team, which is
(19:08):
an improvement, But what is the ceiling after that? As
the question for yeah, and that all comes down to
how good does Polo get, how good does Franz get?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yeah, And then I would just add to that, and
I'm with you, like, obviously you make this type of move.
It's like, we got to win playoff series now and
start going further. And if you don't, then they'll have
one more move and that will be Jamal Moseley will
be out and a new coaching staff will come in
and have a go at it. And like, that's exactly
what's gonna happen if they don't have immediate success and
obviously compete at the top of the East and win
some playoff rounds. But okay, you give it a B
(19:35):
B plus where you go on same thing or do
you go a you seem to like it more?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I do?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I do like it more?
Speaker 6 (19:40):
I do believe in a young Boncaro twenty two and
Franz still super young to go with Desmond Baine. And
I do think Jalen Suggs is a far better player
than Dan Anthony Melton. I think he's got a lot
of talent, and so I think their top four is real.
Whether it's it depends on what they do this year.
Like if they can win fifty five games, which I
(20:02):
think should be their ceiling, and I think that's a possibility,
then it's definitely it's an A minus. It's an A
right now, it's a B plus. But I do believe
in their defense being great. Desmond Baine is a tough dude.
Two years ago, he is in Lebron's face in the playoffs, Like,
I don't think he is just going to fade away.
I think he's gonna be a very good player for
this team and they're gonna ask a lot. They're gonna
(20:23):
ask a lot of him. And sucks to handle the ball.
That that's what they lacked going into the playoffs. They
didn't have any ball handlers. Suggs was out, and so
how will they react now to having a great Bancaro
as your number one guy plus Franz growing. I think
that they should play off each other really well.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
Well twenty twenty five, twenty six Magic like the Desmond
Baine Magic. Will they be better than this year's Grizzlies
team twenty four to twenty five Grizzlies, great question. They
won forty eight games in the Western Conference.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
It's so funny you said that because I wrote in
my notes, would the Grizzlies have kept their core together
with their three guys obviously now breaking it up moving
Bain if they were in the East, Because ever, we
talked about like expansion coming and that means some teams
are going to be coming to the Eastern Conference, and
the Grizzlies, you know when you look at on the map, hey,
they could be one of those teams. Just made me laugh.
It's like, yeah, I don't know, probably not. They probably are,
(21:12):
Like where you are in the Eastern Conference looks a
lot juicier than where you are in the West, So yeah,
who knows. We'll see. Let's hear from you out there.
How do you grade it? What are your thoughts? Did
the Magic get fleeced? That's a popular reaction to this,
with how many picks they sent out a lot of
did the magic make a reach going for Baine with this? Yeah,
(21:35):
we have a lot of arms jokes being flown around.
So anyway, let's hear your thoughts. Let's pivot to the
grizzly side though, what do you think of them? And
obviously we can get integrading their side of this too.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Well, they had to change.
Speaker 6 (21:46):
They moved on from the Bay Jaron Jackson junior John
Moranta has been together for a long time. Their defense
got weaker this year. They weren't playing their type of ball,
they weren't playing hard enough. So forty eight wins, obviously
it's a good number. But I do think it's smart
and that they needed a new direction, even if they
were in the Eastern Conference, to keep going forward with
(22:08):
this same trio you've been going forward for a long
time with.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I think it makes.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Sense mm hmmm, going forward with a long time. But
the problem is, like they haven't all been healthy at
the same time for a good chunk of this too,
over the last couple of years. Yeah, right, there're three guys,
they've Bain and Triple J. But I hear you. They
pivoted here. They seem to have a lot more flexibility. Yeah,
Like I know Windhorse is saying this is a rebuild
trade for the Grizzlies, and I'm interested whether you agree
(22:35):
with that or not. Or is this sort of like
a pivot sort of opening up the books here and
what you're gonna do with Triple J's extension and all that.
But what do you think you.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
Think they're pivoting on a pivotal Game five? Maybe it's so,
I mean, definitely a downgrade to go from Bain to KCP.
I don't even know how Cole Anthony's going to really
factor in here. He's a good backup guard. So with
Scotti Pippen Junior, I think Cole Anthony could ended up
being traded. But you know changes were for Memphis. They
have the Jared Jackson junior extension question hanging over them,
(23:04):
and their GM postseason was basically like, we're not close
to winning here in the Western Conference, so they decided
we had our fun with the JOW, Jaron Jackson Junior
and Baden team. They won one playoff series over the
course of those guys being together. There's a lot of
circumstances there, but you see what happened in the playoffs.
They got smoked in the first round against the Thunder,
(23:25):
so they're not even close. I have to agree. I
think this is smart though, for the Grizzlies to get
some more flexibility. We'll see what they end up doing.
I think it's more likely that they keep Jaron Jackson
Junior and John Morant and now they have some flexibility
around those guys, not to mention all of these picks
which maybe they don't want to keep, and they can
package those picks for a player who is an upgrade
(23:46):
over now KCP. I guess they could go the blow
up everything sort of route, but it seems unlikely to me,
just because they're the only team in their city. When
you're the only team in your city, usually you try
and be good because then people stay interested. They've also
had a ton of success drafting guys in the mid
first round, so I think the Grizzlies are probably pretty
confident that even if these picks are eighteen to thirty, like,
(24:06):
we can find a player. Guess who we found, Desmond Baine.
He was the thirtieth draft picks. So I think this
is smart from the Grizzlies to kind of see the
writing on the wall, like the team we had, it
wasn't good enough. We tried firing Taylor Jenkins at the
end of the season to give ourselves a little jolt
in the arm. That didn't work out. Things had to change.
It's the second Apron Era. Teams are going to get
more and more bold, saying goodbye to max players who
(24:30):
aren't all Stars and all NBA guys, which obviously Desmond
Bain isn't in the Western Conference. Maybe he gets in
screaming distance in the Eastern Conference. But basically between Jared
Jackson Junior and Jaw taking a step back, They've got
two contracts on guys who are well paid and Jaw
isn't looking like the best deal. So getting more flexibility
I think is pretty smart for Memphis.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
You agree with that?
Speaker 6 (24:51):
Oh yeah, yeah, I think I said that they are
more flexible. They've got picks and so they've got two
guys as they're number one and number two, but they
needed to change. So they need another wing, that's for sure.
Jalen Wells probably go to your shooting guard spot, and
they need a center play with Jared Jackson Junior really well.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Zach Edy and j out for the season.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's interesting if everybody was healthy. You're
looking at John Morant, KCP, Jalen Wells obviously, Jaron Jackson junior,
is Zach Edy if he was there, And then you
said Pippin Cole, Anthony Gg Jackson still there.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
They got to resign al Dama.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Yes, Conchar is there. I think he'll be moved. Actually
Clark maybe coming back, Huff and then maybe a country
singer named Vince Williams Junior I think is on the roster.
But yeah, this is definitely this idea of like we
either use all this draft capital to try and get
more high end talent, or if ultimately this doesn't work,
we can pivot and you know, you would move one
(25:46):
of the other big pieces. But I'm with you, TK.
I think this like this to me is like, oh,
they're not one of those two guys are not going anywhere.
Speaker 6 (25:52):
Now.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
It's Jaw and Triple J and will build around them
new coaching staff and maybe they want they want to
implement a whole new style. Even they've talked about like
we want to be running gun more with John Morant stuff.
So that is it. I think, Hollanders said Memphis has
maximized its available assets. The Grizzlies have ten first and
three swaps now in their war chest, so again you
can use that to retool potentially around John Morant and
(26:14):
Jackson Junior.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
So how you grading this one then? From the Grizzly side,
this one's an A minus for me. I think what
Memphis is doing is smart. They're going into a second
era team build, basically saying we can't have three max guys.
We can have two max guys and a whole bunch
of players who are making middle contracts that are tradable,
and they have picks they can attach to it if
they want to do it. I kind of think, well,
(26:36):
I thought the Grizzlies were a little undervalued coming into
this season just because I was a John Morant Jared
Jackson believer. Also, it does been bane believer at the time.
John took a step back. So obviously, if he's going
to be playing like he did last season, the Grizzlies
they are in trouble regardless. I think he'll stick around there.
I think he can be better, but they absolutely need
him to be better, and maybe playing underneath thamas Isolo
(26:58):
is the answer. Right, Like clearly there was albums with
Taylor Jenkins towards the end of the season. Apparently Isolo
just wants to be pick and roll playing with John Morant.
That's where John Moran it is best for sure. Jared
Jackson Junior took a step forward. But I think this
is ultimately a win win trade. Like it's funny because
they're making opposite bets. Holling are really nailed at the athletic.
(27:18):
The Grizzlies are saying we need to get more flexible,
and the Magic are saying we need to get more talent,
which makes them less flexible. The Magic needed more talent,
they needed shooting. That's why they got banged. The Grizzlies
needed more flexibility and their team wasn't good enough. So
they're taking a little bit of a step back, which
is why I think like this is a win win trade.
Both sides are getting exactly what they want.
Speaker 6 (27:37):
I totally agree the flexibility is the important part here.
For the Grizzlies. I don't think you could just keep
on going with the same thing over and over and
over again. And now they have so many picks and
so much space because contracts are a lot of them
are expiring after this year. You obviously have to sign
Jaron Jackson junior. That is inevitable, right, They're going to
sign him for a monster to go.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
With that too, right, him not making.
Speaker 6 (28:00):
At least save some money, going from thirty five percent
of the cap potentially to thirty percent of the cap,
So yeah, every percent saving some bucks.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
This is going to be fascinating to see if for
how this sets the tone for the trade market here
for the rest of the summer. Again, a lot of
comparisons obviously to the McHale Bridges Hall that the Knicks
did with the nets and all those draft picks, and
maybe even you go back to the Rudy Gobert one.
But do you have any take on what this does
now for these potential other trades we see? Obviously Kevin
Durant the biggest name that I know we'll get to
(28:31):
in a second year.
Speaker 5 (28:31):
My first thought was that it's going to be a
lot harder to get these all stars if you're trying
to trade for Kevin Durant. But I actually don't think
that's true now that I've thought on it more. Hey,
I don't think Giannis is going to get traded, So
the biggest name is off the board. B Kevin Durant
is thirty seven years old with a contract waiting after
next season. They got to sign him to an extension.
It's not the same as getting Desmond Baine at twenty
(28:53):
seven with four years under the contract. Not to mention,
a team like the Magic probably have to overpay a
little for the CACP fact and also for the trying
to get guys in. They maybe are not the biggest
free agency destination though they were the biggest free agency
destination circa two thousand. They were trying to get Tracy
McGrady and Tim Duncan almost made it happen, only got
one of them. But I don't know. I just it's
(29:16):
gonna be different scenarios. You know, like Rudy Gobert got
traded for five first round picks. That didn't happen again
until Michale Bridges. McHale Bridges did it didn't happen again
until Desmond bane just got traded here. So I think
they're gonna be different scenarios. It's just gonna cost whatever
it costs for Kevin Durant, not five, I don't think, right.
Speaker 6 (29:35):
But yeah, well I don't think Orlando really is that
free agency destination, like it was in two thousand. Like
you said, Tracy McGrady leaving Toronto, Toronto's not seen that
same way anymore. Tracy just didn't want to be there.
It's unfortunate now people want to go there. The thing
with Orlando, yeah, I wonder we'll see. I feel like
(29:59):
they made a good maneuver here to go for it
and to try it out well here with Memphis, yeah,
it's a it's a real we can trade for whatever now.
I mean, we have so many picks, so it's a
good move on their end. They're they're the flexible ones,
so they're waiting for a potential superstart to be available.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
My only other note with the Magic, because we had
talked about them as like a lot as a team
that's got to make a move because they need a
guard and they need some scoring and maybe even a
point guard, which they didn't they didn't really get obviously.
Bain sort of is a point guard shooting guard, but
he's more of a shooting guard I think. But we
talked about the Blazers with Anthony Simon's right, that was
a popular name. Kobe White with your Chicago Bulls came
up a lot. Now, both those guys. You know, they're
(30:38):
not as good as players as Desmond Bine, but they
wouldn't cost as much to in theory, I think get
them if you could. And then then there was then
the one level that maybe is right around Bain, probably
even higher, more of a point guard in the calvs
with Darius Carlin. But feels like they were like, we're
not doing that. As the injury as well. I don't
know if that came into play, but those are like
three guys that sort of came to mind right away.
I was like, well, they're not going to Orlando now.
I wonder if they stay put or if they go
(30:59):
somewhere or else. I don't know if I'm missing any
other potential trades we talked about at the time.
Speaker 5 (31:04):
Trey Young, Trey.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Young, yep, true. From the Hawks to the Magic.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
I mean, could they have gotten Drew Holliday, you know,
for a little bit less probably Derek White probably would
cast cost at least the same as Yeah, And I
don't really know if the Celtics would want to be
trading with the Magic since they're theoretically going to be
competing with each other. But that is one of the
questions for Orlando is the opportunity cost of it, because
now they can't make a move if anybody else comes available, right,
(31:31):
Like they couldn't do their version of the Pascal Siakam trade. Brother,
They're like, oh, that guy is perfect for our team.
Let's kick in some late first round picks, and now
we got them sign him to an extension going forward.
That's their choice, is Bain has their choice over everybody
else in the league, and we'll see how it plays
out for all.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Right, let's pivot to some other news here, sort of
related maybe in some way to Baine being dealt to
the Orlando Magic. According to Sham's over the weekend, the Heat,
Spurs and Rockets are Kevin Durant preferred trade destinations. People
across the NBA have been made aware in recent days
that those are the three teams Katie would commit to
with a long term extension. Now we talked to the
(32:09):
end of last week. Tasts a lot about hypothetical Katie
trades and those three teams that we just said they
were involved in the list that was five. But Katie's
can't making it sound like we want one of these
three now, not that the Suns have to play nice.
They don't have to. But then again, I don't know
why a trade. A team would want a trade for
an unhappy Kevin Durant who doesn't want to sign their
(32:31):
long term So it gets a little complicated here. But
what do you think?
Speaker 6 (32:34):
Well, you know, I was going through all the teams
this past weekend and wondering if the Rockets want to
give up their young core or part of their young
core for Kevin Durant, who is turning thirty seven. So
I'm more inclined to say no, they don't. I don't
know about this Timberwolves trade considering you know, they're on
the second apron, so they can't combine salaries, aggregate salaries,
(32:56):
as everyone is saying in the NBA media world, makes
it difficult. And I know him and Anthony Edwards get
along and their buds, and Anthony Edwards loved watching Kevin
Durant growing up. I don't know if they want to
make that change. I will say the Miami heat definitely
makes a lot of sense. I could see them wanting
(33:18):
Kevin Durant to be their number one offensive player. Really,
him and Hero and bam Adebayo. He loves the warm weather.
It's a really good defense, and so he would improve
their offense. He is to be their number one offensive player.
And just going through the Rockets and going through the Timberwolves,
what are teams willing to give up? Well, the Miami
Heat may be the best package. Really is what it
(33:39):
comes down to is what our teams willing to give up,
and the Miami Heat maybe giving it up, even though
the names won't be spectacular. It'll be Wiggins, Jovich and
you know at Duncan, Robinson or whoever. But that's what
it all comes down to. Do the Rockets want to
give up the young players? Do the Timberwolves just want
to tear it down again back to back seasons after
(34:01):
making two conference finals.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
And here the Miami Heat.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
So it kind of makes more sense to me that
the Heat would give it a shot.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Well, the guys at the Athletic wrote, league sources say
Durant prefers to play for the spurs of the Rockets,
but there are complicating factors with both of those negotiations
that make the deal look unlikely. And then in that
same article they did sort of revisit what was rumored
what back around the trade deadline, the idea of Katie
going to the Wolves and they sort of like rehash
that how it is tough and whether you know this
part is weird, like it sounds like to me, Katie's
(34:31):
camp has told Chops these are the teams. And I
didn't say Minnesota when I said that, so it feels
like I don't want to go up there. But again,
Phoenix does not have to play nice with this. They
can trade them anywhere. It's not like he's badly be
able with the no trade class, so exactly, yeah, what
do you think?
Speaker 5 (34:46):
That was one of my first takeaways is that Kevin
Durant doesn't want to pay taxes or live where it's cold,
So maybe bad news for Toronto, yes, but this is
Katie exerting what little leverage he has, Like everybody knows
he's going to be traded between now in the draft.
Basically like you're saying, no trade clause, he has no
say so where he goes. So it's on Kevin Durant
(35:08):
to basically talk to these teams, the Heat, the Spurs
and the Rockets, say make your best pitch because I
will come to your team. He say, I'm putting Khalil
wear to the Heat. He's saying don't be stingy with
your picks or your young players to the Spurs and
the Rockets, because I will actually re sign with your
team rather than a team like the Timberwolves or another
mystery team like maybe the Clippers, though they are a
warm weather team, so perhaps they have a better chance
(35:30):
of keeping him around. This is all he can do, yeah, yeah, yeah,
really to influence at all where he's gonna go. But
it's on the Suns to get the best deal they
possibly can. And if that ends up being the Heat,
the Spurs of the Rockets, great, we'll see what they
end up valuing the most. If it's players, maybe it's
the Heat, I don't Maybe Khalil wear is like the
(35:50):
best player they could get. I don't know. But if
it's the Spurs and the Rockets, that's more like rebuild mode, right,
And that's not necessarily what Matt ish Bea wants to do.
But Kevin Durant's telling these three teams, I will make
it worth your while if you trade for me, right.
Does it play out that way? I don't know, but
at least he's saying I'll be around.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Yeah, I mean, I saw Zilla share a bunch of
other wild card teams, because you know, a team can
come out of nowhere in these weird things and suddenly
they're making a deal for him. He was wondering teams
that are desperate, so Ziller said, kinks they could be desperate. Yes,
Philadelphia might be desperate. Okay, Denver could be desperate. The Clippers,
(36:30):
he listed them as a team that maybe is desperate,
and then he said the Lakers are probably not desperate,
but it truly interesting if they convinced themselves they were.
So it made me laugh Zilla's newsletter there. But this
feels like it is gonna happen. Like, be honest with me.
When you saw the trade happens over the weekend on Sunday,
did you think it was Kevin Durant got dealt? Like,
(36:50):
I mean, that was my immediate reaction until you're like,
doesn't invain what is Durant going to the Grizzlies. Oh no,
it doesn't mean it's going to magic, But I mean,
it just feels like it could happen anyway.
Speaker 5 (37:00):
It here.
Speaker 6 (37:00):
Yeah, it feels like the first time in a while
where we're waiting for a trade to happen, and it's
going to happen.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (37:07):
Nothing really jumps out to me as a trade of
a huge player that was destined to trade be traded
over the next couple of weeks, and it's sure feels
like it's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
I mean, Anthony Davis that one. We were pretty.
Speaker 6 (37:20):
Sure Anthony Davis wore that's all folks for a while,
you know.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Like that.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
Yeah, you're right. And he didn't get traded at the deadline.
It was during the summer. Pardon is a good one though,
I mean he quit playing for the Rockets team and
got traded. Yeah, yeah, also hard in getting traded to
the Sixers. Also hard and getting traded to the Clippers.
It's always the writing on the wall. He's very out there,
you know what, he is going to get traded. This
is everybody's known, this is going to happen. I think
(37:46):
this is going to happen. Draft Day, Okay, so we
got we got another week in rumors.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Okay, some of the some of the you know, plugged
in people are saying it's happening sooner and later. And
that's how long we got till then? What's that? Twenty fifth,
twenty six.
Speaker 5 (37:58):
The draft is next Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
It's next.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
What, No, it's Thursday, Wednesday and Thursday.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
It's back.
Speaker 6 (38:03):
It's a Wednesday Thursday. Fun now in the middle of
the week. Okay, well it.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Was last year.
Speaker 6 (38:09):
Remember they televised day to second round.
Speaker 5 (38:13):
Televised second round. That's pretty hilarious.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
That's so silly.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yeah, is that gonna happen again?
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're gonna televise it. Yes, yeah, I
was on ESPN.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
It's definitely gonna be on TV. Yeah, well you'd be watching,
probably not, but they'll be doing day two. Uh. Well,
do you think it's gonna happen on Draft Day like him? Sure,
I'll except I think it's gonna happen before before, Yeah,
just because if there's going to in theory be picks included,
and those teams are going to maybe want those picks
in advance to know where they're going. The Suns, I
guess in this instance would want those picks in advance.
(38:45):
I want, but not that that couldn't happen on Draft night.
And you've seen a lot of times. Hey, you draft
for us too.
Speaker 6 (38:50):
I want Adam Silver announcing it. I want him coming.
Speaker 5 (38:53):
Up to the.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
He drops the Southern Lawyer on amazing he's a East
Coast lawyer, an actual lawyer. Hey, we got a trade.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
I got about their fourth pick of the traft. We
gotta trade. He should not allow Kevin Durant trade to
go down during the finals. Kevin Durant is too big
of a name to be traded during the finals.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Desmond Bane was okay to you.
Speaker 5 (39:16):
One hundred percent. Yes. If you say Desmond Bain and
Kentavious Caldwell Pope were traded and you're out at a pool,
people are gonna say who.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
If you say Kevin Durantz traded, people go, what Kevin Durant?
The finals are?
Speaker 5 (39:28):
Yeah? Back, No, the Finals aren't on. We didn't play
on Father's Day for some reason.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
Hey, Game five Tonights should have played last night. Let's
stick with the Rockets here. Some other news. Steven Adams
will be returning to the Rockets for next season and beyond,
as the Vets center agreed to a new three year,
thirty nine million dollar contract extension over the weekend that'll
keephim there in Houston and takes him off the free
agent market. So it's a name that had come up
when we were talking about top centers on the free
(39:55):
agency market. You know who's like, obviously the Lakers have
wanted a center. A couple other teams. We talked with
the Grizzlies maybe needing a center with the ed injury,
Steven Adams staying in Houston.
Speaker 6 (40:06):
You're you gonna add a good price, you know, thirteen
for thirty nine. Not a huge pay raise actually thinking
about it, looking at his numbers, which were twelve point
six this season, and I'm surprised at how young Steven had. Yeah,
he was waiting for that, right because it feels like
we've been talking about him for a long time because
he came out of the draft and was pivotal for
(40:28):
okay see immediately basically in twenty thirteen. He's only thirty
two coming up this year, so it's a good sign
for three years, it feels like it. Even though he
missed a year because of injury, it feels like he'll
be he'll be pretty tough.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
This feels like his last deal, like in our heads
like he's like thirty seven, thirty eight with that's it. It
feels like that to me, like, oh man, good for him,
got his final payday here, but he's only thirty two.
Speaker 5 (40:52):
Yeah, he's still pretty good.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
When he plays.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
He played with Derek Fisher and Kendrick Perkins on the Thunder.
That's how old this guy is. But also, yeah, yeah,
he makes us very old. I thought Steven Adams was
just a veteran leadership guy for the Rockets coming off
an injury. He didn't play very much to start the
season at all, like ten minutes per game, and then
due to other injuries for the Rockets, people picking up
various maladies, he kind of became important to them during
(41:16):
the regular season. Then he was awesome in the playoffs
against the Golden State Warriors. Twenty three offensive rebounds in
seven games. He had seventeen points, five boards in that
big game six win against the Warriors. He still got
it a little bit like he's gonna be able to
offensive rebound, you know about that, that's guaranteed. You know,
he's gonna be able to set screens. He's not gonna
get smaller as he gets older, and you know, maybe
(41:39):
he's not doing much by the time he's thirty five
years old at the end of this contract, but they'll
value having him around as a good guy who makes
everybody laugh and who understands the professional aspects of the game.
So cool for Steven Adams.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
Yeah, and you're right about like the Rockets were just
better when he was on the floor. Started when he
was in the regular season, we started to get more
time and then obviously it like translated into the playoffs
against the Warriors. He was a plus forty four with
the big key we on the court there and they
were like a minus forty four when he wasn't out there.
So like, he's still good, he's still a positive player.
And yeah, this is not a crazy contract. The three
years basically forty million, So they make quick work on
(42:11):
this deal. And now they have until June twenty ninth
to make a decision on Fred van Vliet and his
forty four point nine million dollar team option. There's a
mutual interest for a reunion between these, you know, the
player and the team. Sounds like Fansleet's going to stay there,
just waiting to see what it will be for. But
they have until a little bit to make that decision.
(42:32):
Some other news, the Knicks still looking for a coach.
They are planning to meet with former Kings coach Mike
Brown and former Grizzlies coach Taylor Jenkins this week for
their head coaching job. As of now, they are considered
those two the leading candidates to replace Tom Thibodeau, who
the Knicks fired on June third, shortly after that first
East Finals appearance in twenty five years. And then they
(42:52):
called every single employed coach and asked if they would
be interested in coming to New York. Now, apparently the Mavericks,
Jason Kid and the Schruggle Bulls, but Billy Donovan are
two currently employed coaches that New York might circle back
to in the coming weeks. Is what I saw, James
Edwards the third right.
Speaker 5 (43:10):
Billy Donovan getting an extension, though.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yes I did. This is the new breaking news, so
he's earned it.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
He earned it.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
Unbelievable. Yeah, what nude photos does he have of the
front office or ownership? But anyway, Taylor Jenkins, Mike Brown,
your reaction to them being the front runners.
Speaker 5 (43:26):
Here, Look, the Necks are casting a wide net and
they just went to a bunch of places where it
said no fishing first. So this is fine. I mean,
they're going after guys who everybody assumed they would be
talking to, kind of except for Michael Malone. I think
is kind of interesting that maybe he's not in the
mix here, but definitely a Tom Thibodeaux analog. I would
say they're pros to both. Mike Brown has been a
successful defensive coach when he was coaching Lebron James with
(43:48):
the Cleveland Cavaliers. He was a successful offensive coach when
he was coaching the Kings, though they never did anything
besides win three first round playoff games. He's more experienced
as a coach, won titles with the Warriors, so he's
got some credit. I believe Taylor Jenkins kind of the same.
He's really good at experimenting with lineups. We know how
many injuries the Grizzlies had over the past few seasons.
(44:08):
They never took a step back when those guys went down,
except for the year that everybody went down. The development
of young players, I think is something that Taylor Jenkins
brings to the table as well. Desmond Bain got great
and that's not including guys like Aldama Conchar Scottie Pippen
junior like who became real NBA players after kind of
becoming scrap he fines. I think that's something that the
(44:29):
Knicks were missing out on. So you can see the
two reasons that the Knicks would be interested in both
of these guys. They're like, we got a veteran who's
good and can maybe juice up our offense. He's well respected,
and Mike Brown. And we've got maybe a more experimental
guy in Taylor Jenkins who's able to do the things
that Tibbs did it in missing, mixing with your lineups
(44:50):
and getting the best out of your young players. So
surely they'll end up hiring Rick Runson. But it's not.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
I'm kidding.
Speaker 5 (44:57):
They're doing all right. They're just they're the only team
with and with an opening right now, so they can
talk to whoever they want to.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Yeah, the only one looking for a coach.
Speaker 6 (45:05):
It's a good point, and maybe that's why we're hearing
about every single one, also because it is New York
and everybody wants to write about every single one. Because
have we heard this many coaches being interviewed by or pursued.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
They were denied interview requests.
Speaker 6 (45:22):
Yeah, but the Jason Kidd situation, that's not dead yet.
In my opinion, I think Jay Kidd has had a
bit of a tough time this season and he could
want out.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
And he could be using this as leverage for his
next contract exception too, sure what some people think.
Speaker 6 (45:38):
Sure, and he will probably enjoy the next experience even
more even though it is New York, because it's been
it's been a tough one for Jason Kidd, so that
one was not dead.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Uh. The Mike Brown like name obviously being included here
makes sense. I own I could see it working. I
think he'd be fun with the New York media for sure,
because I think you have to remember, with whoever does
take this head coaching job, you're basically the voice piece
for that franchise because Leon Rose doesn't talk to anybody does, Like,
he never does an interview, never does a press conference,
so like it's everything's gonna be going through you. Like
(46:11):
Brown seems to have a pretty uh you know, fun
attitude with the media or like good relationship is funny.
I'm not saying that's why you're picking him, but he's
a good coach too. The best jokes that would be
high on the list of qualifications, just like remind reminded
of Like, yeah, Leon Rose never talks here, so he
still hasn't talked after firing tubes. No, No, I guess
(46:31):
he's like, well, anything I say is just gonna be
like flipped around and pulled apart. So just don't say anything.
It's a little odd though, all right, So we'll keep
your eye on that.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
All right.
Speaker 3 (46:40):
Let's get to Game five the NBA Finals, that is tonight,
pivotal game. We're back in okase. Instead of like going
through things to watch for and X factors, like we've
done this and just like drove it into the ground
at this point, I tho that'd be fun to ask
you guys, what's one stat so far through four games
that you think best explains and where we're at or
(47:01):
maybe where we're going here in this best of three
now finals TK you want to get started.
Speaker 5 (47:05):
Twenty to nineteen. Okay, you know what it is? No
clutch points scored this series. Indiana is up one. Literally,
Tyrese Haliburton's jumper in Game one is the difference in
this series. It would be three to one thunder had
Tyrese not that knocked that one down. Indiana's six or
fifteen from the field during clutch games here Oklahoma City
(47:27):
five for thirteen and that's why Indiana is up two
to one. In these clutch games, you dig a little
deeper four to one offensive rebounding advantage for the Pacers
in the clutch. Those are the two that Pascal Siakam
grabbed in Game one when the Thunder went small. That's
how close this series has been between these two awesome teams.
This is why we've had such a great series thus
(47:47):
far two to two. Outside of Game two, every game
has felt like it could go either way. The Pacers
outplayed the Thunder in the clutch during the first two
or durings games one to three in this series, and
then Shake just Alexander took over fifteen in the fourth
in Game four. Couple that with the Thunder defense and
they were able to pull one out. If it gets
down to the clutch again, Shay's gonna have to be
(48:09):
just as good as he was in Game four, because
his Game one in three performance left a little bit
to be desired. Meanwhile, the Pacers feel so comfortable in
these clutch games up until Game four, like they feel
no pressure. I'm sure when they're down at any point
when it gets to be clutch time five points five
or five minutes or less, they feel no fear because
they've been playing in those situations all season or I
(48:31):
mean all season long. BEFO, We're being honest. At least
since the start of January. First we got the Haliburton
four point game winner, we got Obi Topping going nuts.
They've done it all year and they've been one point
better than the Thunder in the clutch so far, and
that's why they have a chance to still win this series.
They got to win one more game in Oklahoma City
to pull it off. Basically, it's a.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
Good one twenty to nineteen.
Speaker 6 (48:51):
What a stat you're going with, Well, the Pacers have
made fourteen more threes than the Thunder and it kind
of reminds me of the twenty twenty three NBA Finals
win the Heat made fifteen more threes than the Nuggets
and still lost. And then you know, returned to last
year when the Celtics were splashing threes on the MAVs
and won that series. But this feels like the Thunder
(49:11):
could be that Nuggets team that doesn't need to hit
threes all the time but still come out victorious. As
you said that, Yeah, Indiana's got to win one in Oka.
See I got this stat from law Murray as well.
For the twenty fourth time here in NBA history, we
have a two two NBA Finals after both teams won
and lost a game on each team's floor. In seventeen
(49:32):
of the twenty three previous series, the winner of the
game five went on to win the championship. It sounds
like it's pivotal, No, highly pivotal. Dang, Yeah, seventeen of
the twenty three, So yeah, this is big.
Speaker 3 (49:43):
My number I'm gonna go with is thirty five because
that's how many free throw attempts Jalen Williams has had
here in this series, and okay see, has shot more
free throws in total than Indiana won twenty five to
one oh two. So that's a twenty three you know,
difference there between the two teams at the free throw line,
which again was something we came in and thought maybe
the Pacers will actually win that because that's something okay see,
(50:05):
they don't through the regular season like they were low
in those and that's they give up a lot of
free throws and they don't get there all that much
outside of their main guy SGA thirty six free throws,
but that's right in line with his averages. But what
Jalen Williams is doing that's impressive to me and really
keeping a minute in game four, we talked about that
head down go at the rim eleven for eleven at
the line, Tak, I think you said. It was probably
from Low Murray who pointed out, like, this guy has
(50:28):
never attempted Jallen Williams double digit free throw attempts in
back to back games. He didn't do it in college,
didn't do it in re in his pro career until
games three and four of the Finals. So yeah, I
just think like he Jalen Williams has taken on more
of a starter play starter role as the Finals has
gone on here and SGA has gone the opposite way,
(50:49):
and it's obviously worked out, especially having a little left
in the tank for game four, So I think that's
going to continue here. And it's like they only have
one Ni Smith, and yeah, they're fine with them hard
on SGA, but like Smith we've talked about, can get
in foul trouble, especially when you put the pressure on him.
So I'm just watching that in game five. That was
one of my weird prop bets too. He has yet
to hit the the over Jalen Williams. What was it
(51:11):
wasn't it thirty? I think it was twenty nine? And
a half. He had to hit thirty points in one
of these games, which I thought he would. Maybe it's tonight,
and maybe it's one of these final three games. But
he's been just like really good, slowly like getting going,
and this series went on.
Speaker 6 (51:23):
Everybody loves talking about Shay the free throw merchant, but
Jalen Williams and Shay basically have the same free gears
attempted this series. Thirty six, Shay leads and Jalen went
right behind him at thirty five. Yeah, he's been great, all.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
Right, So Game five tonight, Okay, see you think takes
us at homes praying for another close one.
Speaker 5 (51:41):
That's all I care about it.
Speaker 3 (51:41):
Yeah, I know, we just don't want that blowout that
everyone's terrified is at one point coming. Just care for
a close game. We're going to be back here tomorrow
to talk about Game five of the NBA Finals. I
appreciate you joining us. Hit the light buttons, subscribe five
star ratings and reviews until tomorrow at TENNEM Eastern climb rse.
Speaker 5 (51:58):
You heard it here first, have a great time, turn up.
Love you guys awesome.
Speaker 6 (52:02):
Thanks for joining us, and remember how'd you guys enjoy
your happy Father's day.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
It was happy, It was happy.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Did you do anything special or or you know, get
anything done for you?
Speaker 6 (52:14):
And washed, ried, and folded three loads of laundry last
name another dad who did that? Three loads, real real
size loads to big, real size loads.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Yeah, yeah, not these petty ones.
Speaker 3 (52:30):
Did you get up to anything?
Speaker 5 (52:31):
I went to a supermercando and some delicious Mexican foods
and then prepared them for my family these guys. Was awesome.
Speaker 3 (52:39):
Yeah, there you go, JD. What about yourself? I mean,
you were just dealing with this board over here.
Speaker 4 (52:42):
Yeah yeah, just working, doing dad stuff, doing dad stuff.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
You're the dad of this podcast. All right, We will
see you guys tomorrow.
Speaker 5 (52:52):
Race to Day
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