March 25, 2024 • 30 mins
Could shedding your social media skin rejuvenate your sense of identity and invigorate your business strategies?
We discuss this compelling concept following Mark Groves' recent announcement to delete Instagram and Facebook as of June 1, 2024. His decision ignites a deep dive into the impact these platforms have on our personal and professional lives. This episode peels back the layers of our online presence, examining whether the accolades of exposure and community building on social media are truly the cornerstones of the success they're made out to be.
When the relentless hamster wheel of content creation starts to creak, it might be a signal to glance at the road less travelled.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So I have a question for you, Ryan.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Yes, you have a question for me.
Perhaps I have an answer, Idon't know.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Well, I have a question for you, but it's also
a question for the wholeaudience too.
Is it multiple choice?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I prefer multiple choice questions.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
No, although it could be a yes-no question, it could
be considered a yes-no question.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
The close, the sister of the true-false question, the
yes-no question, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
So have you ever considered?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
False.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
True.
Have you ever considered givingup on specifically Instagram
and Facebook and just completelydeleting your account and
sourcing business from othersources?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Considered is an interesting word.
I've thought about it.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
And certainly like many people, I think I've gone
through phases where I've done alot less social media.
I didn't post on Instagram forall of January, and that was a
conscious decision, right?
So I don't know.
I mean, I don't know.
(01:18):
The answer is I don't know.
I've thought about it.
I haven't really considered it,though.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
What about you?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I've definitely considered it or thought about
it, but then quickly been likethat's crazy, because I think
that you know it gives you somuch exposure and you know it
allows you to create communityand get your stuff out there.
Otherwise it would be maybe alittle bit more difficult.
(01:47):
But yesterday I was listeningto Mark Groves podcast.
He's a big Instagram dude.
He's got like a millionfollowers and he's announced
that he's deleting Instagram andFacebook as of June 1st of this
year and he went on to explainyou know the reason behind that
(02:13):
and it just he brought up a lotof like interesting points and
you know a lot of interestingquestions that I hadn't really
considered before.
But one of the questions that heasked at the very beginning was
who are you without socialmedia, specifically social media
being meta like Instagram andFacebook?
(02:35):
And this is a question that hislike strategic marketing person
or something asked him and hewas like feeling super, super
burnt out by, like you know,eight years of grinding away on
social media, posting like oneto three pieces of content every
day for eight years, basically,and and he was just like pretty
(03:01):
much done with it and he waslike how sad is it for me to
think like, who am I withoutInstagram and Facebook?
And that got me thinking likewe kind of have got to this
place in our culture where whowe are is based on how many
(03:25):
followers we have or how big oursocial media community is or
how much clout we have in thesocial media world.
That's usually one of the firstthings that people are gonna
look at right To see how worthyyou are.
But could you not be worthywithout an Instagram or Facebook
(03:45):
following?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I would argue we all are.
You can't be worthy without anInstagram and Facebook.
You need both.
Yeah, you need both,unquestionably yeah, I mean, I
think, of course, I thinkeverybody could agree.
You don't need social media.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Need Instagram or Facebook.
There are a couple of toolsthat happen to be highly
effective for connecting withother people.
Yeah, hence, you know, I meanit sort of reminds me, like you
know, people, that poo, poo, popculture, pop music, popular
because a lot of people like it,right.
Social media is popular becausea lot of people like it, right,
(04:25):
but by no means does that meanyou have to listen to pop music
just because a lot of otherpeople like it, right.
So I mean there's a lot ofanytime something's big, anytime
something's popular, there'sgonna be dissent.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
The most popular bands in the world have more
haters than anybody else.
The most popular means ofcommunication in the world have
critics right, just liketelevision did, just like
newspapers did, just like booksdid.
And I'm not implying that thecriticism is wrong, all right,
I'm just saying that.
You know, it kind of makessense.
So I get Mark's point.
(05:04):
Mark Grobes get what he'ssaying.
There's also a lot of pushbackagainst Instagram and Facebook,
specifically because they'reowned by Metta.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
And they're just run by Zuckerberg and his peers,
colleagues, cronies, call themwhat you will and a lot of
people have real objections toMetta and or Zuckerberg's
philosophies and or politics.
I get that perspective too.
There's a lot of sides to thisequation, but I mean from a
(05:37):
coaching and entrepreneurshipperspective.
Can we have a successfulbusiness and a happy business
life without them?
The answer is yes.
Spoiler the answer is yes, butis that the right choice for
everybody?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah, probably not, yeah, yeah there you go.
And he was very deliberate withthe way he was talking about it
.
Like he was like I'm in no waypoo-pooing Metta or being the
victim here and saying becausehe was also kind of relating
Instagram and Facebook to anabusive relationship because of
(06:20):
the algorithm and how they'realways changing everything and
how they've engineered it tokeep people on the platform.
So even if you're getting peopleto go off the platform, then
you're being kind of penalizedfor that because, they don't
actually want you going to theLincoln in bio because that
takes you off of Instagram or ittakes you off of Facebook.
(06:43):
And so then there's like norenumeration or like reciprocity
when it comes to Facebook andInstagram, because they just
want you to stay on the platform.
And there was also like a wholeconversation around like
censorship and how like if yousay anything that's against
(07:03):
their policies, then you getshadow banned or you get
canceled or you, you know, oryour whole account gets shut
down, right, he's basically.
He was basically talking like Idon't want to be in a
relationship like that anymore,Like I don't want to be in a
place where I feel like I haveto silence myself or, you know,
(07:23):
not fully express what I want toexpress.
And you know I was like yeah,you know, like there was like
parts of me where I was likeyeah, Mark, I'm with you, I'm
deleting Instagram, I'm out ofhere.
But then there was also bits ofme that were just like well,
maybe I could just revisit myrelationship with the platforms,
(07:47):
right, and you know, I canlimit how much I'm consuming.
I only use it as like acreation thing.
You know, like my brain startedworking on all these things
no-transcript.
Also, on the flip side of it,too, he's got 1.1 million
followers on Instagram, but he'sgot a very established business
.
So he's got a YouTube channel,he has a podcast, he does live
(08:13):
events on a regular basis.
He's got probably I'm assuminga pretty big email list.
So for him to say I'm deletingInstagram pretty easy because
he's got all of these otherspots to go strategically you
know what I mean To keep hisbusiness going.
(08:35):
And that was the other thingthat he said too in this kind of
tell-all was it's like leavingan abusive relationship.
If you're in a relationshipwhere, say, you're financially
dependent on your partner, youdon't just leave.
Right, you build a strategy tomake the exit.
(08:57):
So how are you going to makemoney?
How are you going to earn anincome?
Are you going to do this?
Are you going to like all thesethings?
And it's the same thing, Likehe's kind of saying the same
thing If you're going to decideto exit the exposure that you
get from Instagram and Facebook,you need an exit plan, you need
(09:18):
a strategy that goes along withit, so you can't just like up
and delete it, which is also whyhe's probably not deleting his
until June, right, he's likebuilding this momentum so that
there's going to be other placesfor people to find him.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, a couple of things.
A couple of things.
I didn't never heard of thisMark Groves guy until you
mentioned him today.
I got to say it's aninteresting way to present an
argument to first say I'm notpoopooing something and then to
(10:00):
make numerous comparisons ofthat thing to something that is
obviously wrong, like abuse.
Yeah, again, I'm not sayinghe's wrong, I'm not poopooing
him, I'm just saying it'sinteresting to be like oh, you
know, to each their own.
Nothing wrong with this thing,it just reminds me of an abusive
partner and it's horrible.
I'm just pointing out that'slinguistically interesting to me
(10:24):
.
But again, not necessarily.
Like I see the similarity, I seethe similarity here, I get it.
Yeah, but yeah, you know thatpoint is true.
Like, yeah, you know, if yourmain source of revenue is from
clients that are finding you onsocial media, probably you don't
(10:45):
want to just delete your socialmedia presence and disappear,
is you might just turn off your?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
revenue Right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
And so I you know I was telling you this before we
hit record, and we've talked inthe past about the difference
between a therapist or ahypnotherapist and a coach.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
And these, of course, are general differences.
This is not universal truths,but, you know, my observation is
the people who identify as likea coach especially if they're a
business coach or a life coachor a performance coach they tend
to thrive a little bit more onsocial media than somebody who
identifies as a therapist or ahypnotherapist or you know
(11:24):
somebody that's more likesession work kind of person
versus coaching work kind ofperson.
And so I think there's a kindof probably a lot of people that
are going to listen to thisepisode and say first
opportunity I got, I'm leavingsocial media and what I told you
before we had record was justyou know, as I do in my, I have
a free Facebook group forhypnotherapists and coaches and
(11:48):
people like that to learn how toattract clients more.
I put a little post in theresaying hey everyone, I'm putting
together a resource.
It's going to be a minitraining and PDF on my top three
ways to get clients withoutusing social media, and it's
shaping up to be the mostpopular resource I've ever
announced in the group.
But that you know, right now,two days after posting that one
(12:12):
post, which is just one sentence, I've already had 118 people
opt in asking for it, right,which is a lot.
And I think you know, I thinkthere is a, you know, a large
number of people who, whetherthey just don't like it or they
have values level objections toit, don't see social media as
(12:36):
the way they want to beconducting their business and
are waiting for an alternative,a viable alternative, right.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, I just you know .
I wanted to bring this topic tothe podcast to discuss because
I think it's interesting and I'mnot planning on deleting my
Instagram or my Facebook.
Oh, you didn't want it.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I already did it for you.
I assume that's what you want.
I just went ahead and deletedall of your social media
accounts ever, Somehow somehow Idid that.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yeah, somehow you got in there.
But what I am going to do andactually this is something I've
been talking about recently tojust people in general and like
other people that I've beenworking with is I want to put
more of an effort intopodcasting and YouTube on top of
(13:26):
my social media, and that justmeans that I just have to read
jig, kind of like, where I'mputting my efforts, because I
think that, well, we've talkedabout that.
I mean, we're doing ourpodcasting class tomorrow, but
there's a lot of value in alsohaving a podcast right Because
(13:47):
it's your own entity.
Like it's your own thing.
It's not ruled by an algorithmor owned by anyone else.
It's like you own it and youcan put whatever you want up
there and talk about whateveryou want and that's your thing.
Same thing with YouTube.
Like, even though I knowthere's an algorithm with
YouTube, like, it's still yourchannel right.
Like it's very different than,like, putting up content on
(14:11):
Instagram and Facebook.
So I think just having thisdiscussion and listening to this
whole thing that you know MarkGroves has brought up has just
made me reevaluate where I wantto put my effort and like do I
want to, like you know, put alittle bit more effort into like
actually starting and beingconsistent with like a YouTube
(14:37):
channel where I could put mymeditations and hypnosis stuff
up there maybe little trainingsrather than putting like all my
eggs in like the FacebookInstagram basket, which is
basically what I've been doing.
Like, yes, we're podcasting,but like for the most part, I'm
all in on Instagram and Facebookand maybe I don't want to be
(14:59):
like.
It's made me question how muchmore content do I want to fill
in there?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, Also.
I mean there's different way.
We probably should have definedsocial media a little bit at
the beginning of this episode,but that ship of sale.
There's also different ways tobe on social media and not be on
social media, Because, like inmy mind, even like, let's talk
(15:29):
about Facebook for a second.
There's Facebook, but you'renot just like on Facebook or not
on Facebook.
Right, there are many differentdegrees of being on Facebook.
You could be somebody who's onFacebook and post lots of
content on Facebook and yourcontent is on Facebook.
You could be somebody who's onFacebook and utilizes the DM
(15:50):
function to communicate withmany people on Facebook.
You could be somebody who's onFacebook and utilizes Facebook
ads to reach a new audience.
And then there's a bunch ofother different ways to be on
Facebook and everybody's somecombination of these right.
And I think you know a lot ofwhere the objections lie is in
(16:11):
that first one of being acontent producer on a social
media platform like Facebook andthe pressures of producing
content and producing qualitycontent and engaging with people
via content and being at themercy of an algorithm that may
or may not drive traffic to yourcontent, regardless of how good
or not good it is.
(16:31):
I think that's where a lot ofkind of the stress and the
difficulty and like trying tomarket a business via content on
social media is extremelychallenging for a lot of people.
But then, on the other side ofthings, it's, like you know,
facebook, the Facebook adsecosystem.
A lot of people are stillmystified by it, but I'll tell
(16:54):
you, you know it's given peopleaccess to advertising at a level
that was never available in thepast right, yeah.
You know, pre-social media andpre-internet advertising was a
totally different monster thanpost-internet advertising, and
in the past it was, like youknow, it was just inaccessible
(17:18):
to so many more people.
And now, like you, can be likeNana's knitting club and you
know, put 20 bucks in a Facebookad and get you know five or 10
new Nanas in your knitting clubright, which?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I think is great.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I think that's great for those that want to embrace
it.
I'm not saying you have to dothat.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Exactly, I think it's a choice, it's a choice.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
There's a lot of new ones, totally you know.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
And at the end of the day, you choose to post content
like whenever you want, like noone is telling you either like
how much content you need to beposting.
But I will say it does like.
It does feel like thisnever-ending like at least from
my experience it does feel likethis never-ending race.
(18:06):
That it's like where you'rejust like never enough, like
it's never enough, like you canalways just keep feeding the
beast more and more, right.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
And I really like I've been on social media with
both of my business like myfabric business, and then now
once coaching for the last 10years and I've been like showing
up online pretty muchconsistently every day for 10
years and I had never felt burntout.
But when I exploded onInstagram in November or
(18:38):
whenever that was September andgained like 60,000 new followers
pretty much, you know, over acouple of weeks, that burnt me
out.
That really burnt me out becauseI was so invested in that
growth and then wanting tocontinue to feed the beast and
(18:59):
get you know more likes and moredirect messages and more
follows and all that stuff.
I didn't realize like I justgot back from holiday and I
didn't realize how burnt out Iwas until I was away on holiday
with my family and I was like,wow, because I'd stopped.
(19:21):
And I was just like, screw it,I'm just gonna have fun and go
snowboarding and hang out andlike not worried about posting
too much content.
And it wasn't until that momentthat I was like wow, I've been
like so so stressed out and likehigh strung about creating
(19:42):
content.
I didn't even and I didn't evennotice it.
Well yeah, and now I'm kind oflike, so it was interesting to
come back from holiday and thenlike this whole thing with Mark
Groves, and then I watched thisYouTube and then I was like,
yeah, you're right, I don't needthis.
It is an abusive relationship.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
I am feeling burnt out and like it's never enough
and yeah, I think you know, aswe get closer to kind of
wrapping up the episode here, Ithink you know I like to think
of the average person who's a,who's the coach or business
owner or whatever.
Right, because this, thispodcast, is not really just for,
(20:24):
like, general public.
This is for like people who areentrepreneurs online.
Right, and I think the naturalprogression is you start on
social media for your, for yourmarketing and having a presence
and you really hustle to getyour first clients and grow your
business to the first one ortwo mile steps.
Right, because that's a greatway to get started.
(20:50):
Right, you can get feedback.
You can see what works, whatmessaging works, what doesn't.
You can connect lots of peoplefor a low or no money, no money
at all, and I think for somepeople, that's going to be their
marketing and business strategyand online presence permanently
.
And for other people, andprobably for most people, I
(21:12):
think, once you pass the firstcouple of milestones in business
, it's time for your socialmedia to be less the workhorse
that does everything fromdiscoverability, client
attraction, nurturing, like allthese things, and you know you
need to transition it to just.
This is like here I'mdocumenting my business journey,
(21:35):
because I've set up systems toautomate or system systemize
client attraction.
I've set up systems to automateor systemize nurturing leads,
etc.
Etc.
Because it really is.
If you're trying to do all ofthat just through social media
content and we're moving awaynow from some of the kind of
like philosophical conversationthat Mark was bringing up and
(21:57):
I'm talking about business now,you know it almost feels
unsustainable.
Yeah when you're doingeverything through content, all
the steps of the client journey.
You're trying to handle itthrough content.
Yeah, you know, it's liketrying to build a house with
just two tools a hammer and asaw.
Yeah, you could do it.
(22:18):
But if you're building a newhouse every month, eventually
you want to, like, you know, geta table saw, get it, you know,
some other tools and get someprefab parts and get some more
people on your team, right?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yeah Well, and I think that doesn't make does
that make sense, when I justsaid yeah, it totally makes
sense, and what it makes methink of, though, is sort of
like, because there is thiswhole movement around like
organic marketing, right, whereyou don't have the funnel or you
don't have the system set up,right Like you're just growing
(22:52):
your business through organicmarketing.
And, you know, I'm wondering isthat a bit of a facade, right?
Like you know, I can think of acouple of specific coaches you
know that I'm thinking aboutright now who claim that they're
making all like millions ofdollars and they're just using
(23:13):
Instagram.
Is that?
I think it's possible.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
I think it's possible , but don't think it's the most
efficient way.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
No, I don't think it is either.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And I don't think it will work for a lot of for
everybody.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
No, it probably can work, for you know a few people.
But the other thing that I wasthinking when you were talking
about that too, is it you know,yes, you, you start off with the
client attraction thing and youknow building the community and
putting yourself out there.
But once you've sort of likecreated a bit of a foundation
(23:46):
for yourself and you have thosesystems in place, it always
comes back to authenticity,which we've talked about a
couple of times already.
But I think it's just like howare you using the platform that
serves?
Like you and and like yourgoals and all that stuff.
Like, do you know what I meanor do you want?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
to tell me about it.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
It's just like how are you using it to align with,
like, your values and the wayyou're seeing your business grow
and develop?
And like how are you puttingyourself out there and
connecting with people so thatit's like true to you and you're
not like putting on a show oran act or like?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
I think that's I think, after watching this thing
with Mark Groves and afterdigesting all this information,
I'm seeing social media from adifferent perspective now or
something, and it just became soobvious to me the people who
are putting on a show versus thepeople who are authentically
(24:51):
just showing up to be like here.
This is me and this is thecontent I'm producing to, I
don't know, share with you.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah.
I got it, I got it, I got it.
You throw on a little shade, alittle.
It's okay, a little, I'm justlike just be authentic, Like.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Like I almost want to just unfollow a bunch of people
.
That I just can't Now that Ihave this different perspective.
You know, when you have adifferent perspective you just
can't unsee some things and I'mjust like I don't want to watch
that anymore.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, yeah, I do know what you mean.
Sounds yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Something to keep in mind.
And another thing, too, that hetalked about was how can you
build safety into this guy's atherapist?
I think his background istherapy too, yeah, so you know
he's not really.
I think he is a coach now, butI think his background is in
relationship therapy.
(26:03):
But he was talking about howyou can build strategies to
create safety when you'renavigating these platforms.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Like safety for just yourself and your own nervous
system.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, I think the last thing to mention is again
from a business standpoint.
Remember the attention and thefollowers and the traffic that
you have on social media.
You don't technically own it.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
The platform owns it.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
So that is another tick in Mark's column of like,
building a business based 100%on social media.
Traffic is inherently riskybecause, like, yeah, these
platforms are unpredictable, thealgorithms are unpredictable.
Occasionally, people lose theiraccounts for various reasons
(27:03):
that are either their fault orthe platforms fault, or a
combination of both or neither.
And so an example of trafficthat you own is like your email
list.
Right, yeah, it doesn't matterif your email provider closes
your account.
As long as you're backed upyour email list, you can take
that list to a different emailprovider and resume sending
contact to those people.
Yeah, you own that contactinformation.
(27:25):
Your follower list on, let'ssay, instagram, for example, you
can't get shut down.
It doesn't matter if you havethe list saved.
You can't just open a newInstagram account and import
that list and have all thosefollowers back.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah, it doesn't work Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
So I think we should try to kind of be off social
media games.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah Well, I think, just like, diversify where
you're showing up, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I think we should do a whole other episode on that.
Yeah, and just what's the stuffwe can do to build our business
that doesn't involve socialmedia.
I think people would like that.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Yeah, let's do that.
I think that's important, butthey got to pay for that episode
.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
You have to send a money order for seven British
pounds to Ryan Lopsis, care ofmy office PO Box Anyways.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
No, it'll be one of the three episodes.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
So wasn't there like a whole thing?
I think when I was away therewas like a whole thing about
TikTok getting shut down orsomething like that, or a band
in Canada or North America.
Was that a thing?
Because I feel like I heardgrumblings of like TikTok's
going to get shut down, that's ano, you're thinking of Tic Tac
Toe.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
They're going to plant and they're going to ban
Tic Tac Toe worldwide.
Worldwide, because of all thestubbed toe and finger injuries
epidemic levels.
Yeah, the US Senate orsomething, voted to potentially
(28:54):
ban TikTok in the United States.
I don't think it's actuallybeen signed into law yet and
then because of that, then thenews in Canada was saying oh,
Canada's going to follow usthrough.
I don't think anything hasactually happened yet, but
they've been talking about thatfor years.
They've been talking about thatfor years.
(29:14):
And Chinese spies and all thesedifferent things.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
If you're going to ban it.
Ban it if not.
Show she Stop talking about it.
Yeah.
Yeah, all right, so I guessthat's it.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
So watch out for that episode where we'll tell you
exciting strategies like justgoing around your neighborhood
and knocking on doors, leavingflyers underneath windshield
wipers to talk about yourbusiness, and other ways to
attract clients without usingsocial media.
That was a joke.
There's much better ways thanthat, but anyways.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Okay, good.
Cool Well on that note followus on Instagram at it's the most
, he says.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Best way to get ahold of us.
Instagram and Facebook, forsure.
Join my free group on Facebook.
It's awesome.
Yeah, all right Got to be inthe link.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Okay, that's it.
Bye everyone.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Ciao.
So I have a question for you, Ryan.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Yes, you have a question for me.
Perhaps I have an answer, Idon't know.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Well, I have a question for you, but it's also
a question for the wholeaudience too.
Is it multiple choice?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I prefer multiple choice questions.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
No, although it could be a yes-no question, it could
be considered a yes-no question.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
The close, the sister of the true-false question, the
yes-no question, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
So have you ever considered?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
False.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
True.
Have you ever considered givingup on specifically Instagram
and Facebook and just completelydeleting your account and
sourcing business from othersources?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Considered is an interesting word.
I've thought about it.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
And certainly like many people, I think I've gone
through phases where I've done alot less social media.
I didn't post on Instagram forall of January, and that was a
conscious decision, right?
So I don't know.
I mean, I don't know.
(01:18):
The answer is I don't know.
I've thought about it.
I haven't really considered it,though.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
What about you?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I've definitely considered it or thought about
it, but then quickly been likethat's crazy, because I think
that you know it gives you somuch exposure and you know it
allows you to create communityand get your stuff out there.
Otherwise it would be maybe alittle bit more difficult.
(01:47):
But yesterday I was listeningto Mark Groves podcast.
He's a big Instagram dude.
He's got like a millionfollowers and he's announced
that he's deleting Instagram andFacebook as of June 1st of this
year and he went on to explainyou know the reason behind that
(02:13):
and it just he brought up a lotof like interesting points and
you know a lot of interestingquestions that I hadn't really
considered before.
But one of the questions that heasked at the very beginning was
who are you without socialmedia, specifically social media
being meta like Instagram andFacebook?
(02:35):
And this is a question that hislike strategic marketing person
or something asked him and hewas like feeling super, super
burnt out by, like you know,eight years of grinding away on
social media, posting like oneto three pieces of content every
day for eight years, basically,and and he was just like pretty
(03:01):
much done with it and he waslike how sad is it for me to
think like, who am I withoutInstagram and Facebook?
And that got me thinking likewe kind of have got to this
place in our culture where whowe are is based on how many
(03:25):
followers we have or how big oursocial media community is or
how much clout we have in thesocial media world.
That's usually one of the firstthings that people are gonna
look at right To see how worthyyou are.
But could you not be worthywithout an Instagram or Facebook
(03:45):
following?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I would argue we all are.
You can't be worthy without anInstagram and Facebook.
You need both.
Yeah, you need both,unquestionably yeah, I mean, I
think, of course, I thinkeverybody could agree.
You don't need social media.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Need Instagram or Facebook.
There are a couple of toolsthat happen to be highly
effective for connecting withother people.
Yeah, hence, you know, I meanit sort of reminds me, like you
know, people, that poo, poo, popculture, pop music, popular
because a lot of people like it,right.
Social media is popular becausea lot of people like it, right,
(04:25):
but by no means does that meanyou have to listen to pop music
just because a lot of otherpeople like it, right.
So I mean there's a lot ofanytime something's big, anytime
something's popular, there'sgonna be dissent.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
The most popular bands in the world have more
haters than anybody else.
The most popular means ofcommunication in the world have
critics right, just liketelevision did, just like
newspapers did, just like booksdid.
And I'm not implying that thecriticism is wrong, all right,
I'm just saying that.
You know, it kind of makessense.
So I get Mark's point.
(05:04):
Mark Grobes get what he'ssaying.
There's also a lot of pushbackagainst Instagram and Facebook,
specifically because they'reowned by Metta.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
And they're just run by Zuckerberg and his peers,
colleagues, cronies, call themwhat you will and a lot of
people have real objections toMetta and or Zuckerberg's
philosophies and or politics.
I get that perspective too.
There's a lot of sides to thisequation, but I mean from a
(05:37):
coaching and entrepreneurshipperspective.
Can we have a successfulbusiness and a happy business
life without them?
The answer is yes.
Spoiler the answer is yes, butis that the right choice for
everybody?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah, probably not, yeah, yeah there you go.
And he was very deliberate withthe way he was talking about it
.
Like he was like I'm in no waypoo-pooing Metta or being the
victim here and saying becausehe was also kind of relating
Instagram and Facebook to anabusive relationship because of
(06:20):
the algorithm and how they'realways changing everything and
how they've engineered it tokeep people on the platform.
So even if you're getting peopleto go off the platform, then
you're being kind of penalizedfor that because, they don't
actually want you going to theLincoln in bio because that
takes you off of Instagram or ittakes you off of Facebook.
(06:43):
And so then there's like norenumeration or like reciprocity
when it comes to Facebook andInstagram, because they just
want you to stay on the platform.
And there was also like a wholeconversation around like
censorship and how like if yousay anything that's against
(07:03):
their policies, then you getshadow banned or you get
canceled or you, you know, oryour whole account gets shut
down, right, he's basically.
He was basically talking like Idon't want to be in a
relationship like that anymore,Like I don't want to be in a
place where I feel like I haveto silence myself or, you know,
(07:23):
not fully express what I want toexpress.
And you know I was like yeah,you know, like there was like
parts of me where I was likeyeah, Mark, I'm with you, I'm
deleting Instagram, I'm out ofhere.
But then there was also bits ofme that were just like well,
maybe I could just revisit myrelationship with the platforms,
(07:47):
right, and you know, I canlimit how much I'm consuming.
I only use it as like acreation thing.
You know, like my brain startedworking on all these things
no-transcript.
Also, on the flip side of it,too, he's got 1.1 million
followers on Instagram, but he'sgot a very established business
.
So he's got a YouTube channel,he has a podcast, he does live
(08:13):
events on a regular basis.
He's got probably I'm assuminga pretty big email list.
So for him to say I'm deletingInstagram pretty easy because
he's got all of these otherspots to go strategically you
know what I mean To keep hisbusiness going.
(08:35):
And that was the other thingthat he said too in this kind of
tell-all was it's like leavingan abusive relationship.
If you're in a relationshipwhere, say, you're financially
dependent on your partner, youdon't just leave.
Right, you build a strategy tomake the exit.
(08:57):
So how are you going to makemoney?
How are you going to earn anincome?
Are you going to do this?
Are you going to like all thesethings?
And it's the same thing, Likehe's kind of saying the same
thing If you're going to decideto exit the exposure that you
get from Instagram and Facebook,you need an exit plan, you need
(09:18):
a strategy that goes along withit, so you can't just like up
and delete it, which is also whyhe's probably not deleting his
until June, right, he's likebuilding this momentum so that
there's going to be other placesfor people to find him.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, a couple of things.
A couple of things.
I didn't never heard of thisMark Groves guy until you
mentioned him today.
I got to say it's aninteresting way to present an
argument to first say I'm notpoopooing something and then to
(10:00):
make numerous comparisons ofthat thing to something that is
obviously wrong, like abuse.
Yeah, again, I'm not sayinghe's wrong, I'm not poopooing
him, I'm just saying it'sinteresting to be like oh, you
know, to each their own.
Nothing wrong with this thing,it just reminds me of an abusive
partner and it's horrible.
I'm just pointing out that'slinguistically interesting to me
(10:24):
.
But again, not necessarily.
Like I see the similarity, I seethe similarity here, I get it.
Yeah, but yeah, you know thatpoint is true.
Like, yeah, you know, if yourmain source of revenue is from
clients that are finding you onsocial media, probably you don't
(10:45):
want to just delete your socialmedia presence and disappear,
is you might just turn off your?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
revenue Right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
And so I you know I was telling you this before we
hit record, and we've talked inthe past about the difference
between a therapist or ahypnotherapist and a coach.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
And these, of course, are general differences.
This is not universal truths,but, you know, my observation is
the people who identify as likea coach especially if they're a
business coach or a life coachor a performance coach they tend
to thrive a little bit more onsocial media than somebody who
identifies as a therapist or ahypnotherapist or you know
(11:24):
somebody that's more likesession work kind of person
versus coaching work kind ofperson.
And so I think there's a kindof probably a lot of people that
are going to listen to thisepisode and say first
opportunity I got, I'm leavingsocial media and what I told you
before we had record was justyou know, as I do in my, I have
a free Facebook group forhypnotherapists and coaches and
(11:48):
people like that to learn how toattract clients more.
I put a little post in theresaying hey everyone, I'm putting
together a resource.
It's going to be a minitraining and PDF on my top three
ways to get clients withoutusing social media, and it's
shaping up to be the mostpopular resource I've ever
announced in the group.
But that you know, right now,two days after posting that one
(12:12):
post, which is just one sentence, I've already had 118 people
opt in asking for it, right,which is a lot.
And I think you know, I thinkthere is a, you know, a large
number of people who, whetherthey just don't like it or they
have values level objections toit, don't see social media as
(12:36):
the way they want to beconducting their business and
are waiting for an alternative,a viable alternative, right.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, I just you know .
I wanted to bring this topic tothe podcast to discuss because
I think it's interesting and I'mnot planning on deleting my
Instagram or my Facebook.
Oh, you didn't want it.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I already did it for you.
I assume that's what you want.
I just went ahead and deletedall of your social media
accounts ever, Somehow somehow Idid that.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yeah, somehow you got in there.
But what I am going to do andactually this is something I've
been talking about recently tojust people in general and like
other people that I've beenworking with is I want to put
more of an effort intopodcasting and YouTube on top of
(13:26):
my social media, and that justmeans that I just have to read
jig, kind of like, where I'mputting my efforts, because I
think that, well, we've talkedabout that.
I mean, we're doing ourpodcasting class tomorrow, but
there's a lot of value in alsohaving a podcast right Because
(13:47):
it's your own entity.
Like it's your own thing.
It's not ruled by an algorithmor owned by anyone else.
It's like you own it and youcan put whatever you want up
there and talk about whateveryou want and that's your thing.
Same thing with YouTube.
Like, even though I knowthere's an algorithm with
YouTube, like, it's still yourchannel right.
Like it's very different than,like, putting up content on
(14:11):
Instagram and Facebook.
So I think just having thisdiscussion and listening to this
whole thing that you know MarkGroves has brought up has just
made me reevaluate where I wantto put my effort and like do I
want to, like you know, put alittle bit more effort into like
actually starting and beingconsistent with like a YouTube
(14:37):
channel where I could put mymeditations and hypnosis stuff
up there maybe little trainingsrather than putting like all my
eggs in like the FacebookInstagram basket, which is
basically what I've been doing.
Like, yes, we're podcasting,but like for the most part, I'm
all in on Instagram and Facebookand maybe I don't want to be
(14:59):
like.
It's made me question how muchmore content do I want to fill
in there?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, Also.
I mean there's different way.
We probably should have definedsocial media a little bit at
the beginning of this episode,but that ship of sale.
There's also different ways tobe on social media and not be on
social media, Because, like inmy mind, even like, let's talk
(15:29):
about Facebook for a second.
There's Facebook, but you'renot just like on Facebook or not
on Facebook.
Right, there are many differentdegrees of being on Facebook.
You could be somebody who's onFacebook and post lots of
content on Facebook and yourcontent is on Facebook.
You could be somebody who's onFacebook and utilizes the DM
(15:50):
function to communicate withmany people on Facebook.
You could be somebody who's onFacebook and utilizes Facebook
ads to reach a new audience.
And then there's a bunch ofother different ways to be on
Facebook and everybody's somecombination of these right.
And I think you know a lot ofwhere the objections lie is in
(16:11):
that first one of being acontent producer on a social
media platform like Facebook andthe pressures of producing
content and producing qualitycontent and engaging with people
via content and being at themercy of an algorithm that may
or may not drive traffic to yourcontent, regardless of how good
or not good it is.
(16:31):
I think that's where a lot ofkind of the stress and the
difficulty and like trying tomarket a business via content on
social media is extremelychallenging for a lot of people.
But then, on the other side ofthings, it's, like you know,
facebook, the Facebook adsecosystem.
A lot of people are stillmystified by it, but I'll tell
(16:54):
you, you know it's given peopleaccess to advertising at a level
that was never available in thepast right, yeah.
You know, pre-social media andpre-internet advertising was a
totally different monster thanpost-internet advertising, and
in the past it was, like youknow, it was just inaccessible
(17:18):
to so many more people.
And now, like you, can be likeNana's knitting club and you
know, put 20 bucks in a Facebookad and get you know five or 10
new Nanas in your knitting clubright, which?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I think is great.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I think that's great for those that want to embrace
it.
I'm not saying you have to dothat.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Exactly, I think it's a choice, it's a choice.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
There's a lot of new ones, totally you know.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
And at the end of the day, you choose to post content
like whenever you want, like noone is telling you either like
how much content you need to beposting.
But I will say it does like.
It does feel like thisnever-ending like at least from
my experience it does feel likethis never-ending race.
(18:06):
That it's like where you'rejust like never enough, like
it's never enough, like you canalways just keep feeding the
beast more and more, right.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
And I really like I've been on social media with
both of my business like myfabric business, and then now
once coaching for the last 10years and I've been like showing
up online pretty muchconsistently every day for 10
years and I had never felt burntout.
But when I exploded onInstagram in November or
(18:38):
whenever that was September andgained like 60,000 new followers
pretty much, you know, over acouple of weeks, that burnt me
out.
That really burnt me out becauseI was so invested in that
growth and then wanting tocontinue to feed the beast and
(18:59):
get you know more likes and moredirect messages and more
follows and all that stuff.
I didn't realize like I justgot back from holiday and I
didn't realize how burnt out Iwas until I was away on holiday
with my family and I was like,wow, because I'd stopped.
(19:21):
And I was just like, screw it,I'm just gonna have fun and go
snowboarding and hang out andlike not worried about posting
too much content.
And it wasn't until that momentthat I was like wow, I've been
like so so stressed out and likehigh strung about creating
(19:42):
content.
I didn't even and I didn't evennotice it.
Well yeah, and now I'm kind oflike, so it was interesting to
come back from holiday and thenlike this whole thing with Mark
Groves, and then I watched thisYouTube and then I was like,
yeah, you're right, I don't needthis.
It is an abusive relationship.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
I am feeling burnt out and like it's never enough
and yeah, I think you know, aswe get closer to kind of
wrapping up the episode here, Ithink you know I like to think
of the average person who's a,who's the coach or business
owner or whatever.
Right, because this, thispodcast, is not really just for,
(20:24):
like, general public.
This is for like people who areentrepreneurs online.
Right, and I think the naturalprogression is you start on
social media for your, for yourmarketing and having a presence
and you really hustle to getyour first clients and grow your
business to the first one ortwo mile steps.
Right, because that's a greatway to get started.
(20:50):
Right, you can get feedback.
You can see what works, whatmessaging works, what doesn't.
You can connect lots of peoplefor a low or no money, no money
at all, and I think for somepeople, that's going to be their
marketing and business strategyand online presence permanently
.
And for other people, andprobably for most people, I
(21:12):
think, once you pass the firstcouple of milestones in business
, it's time for your socialmedia to be less the workhorse
that does everything fromdiscoverability, client
attraction, nurturing, like allthese things, and you know you
need to transition it to just.
This is like here I'mdocumenting my business journey,
(21:35):
because I've set up systems toautomate or system systemize
client attraction.
I've set up systems to automateor systemize nurturing leads,
etc.
Etc.
Because it really is.
If you're trying to do all ofthat just through social media
content and we're moving awaynow from some of the kind of
like philosophical conversationthat Mark was bringing up and
(21:57):
I'm talking about business now,you know it almost feels
unsustainable.
Yeah when you're doingeverything through content, all
the steps of the client journey.
You're trying to handle itthrough content.
Yeah, you know, it's liketrying to build a house with
just two tools a hammer and asaw.
Yeah, you could do it.
(22:18):
But if you're building a newhouse every month, eventually
you want to, like, you know, geta table saw, get it, you know,
some other tools and get someprefab parts and get some more
people on your team, right?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yeah Well, and I think that doesn't make does
that make sense, when I justsaid yeah, it totally makes
sense, and what it makes methink of, though, is sort of
like, because there is thiswhole movement around like
organic marketing, right, whereyou don't have the funnel or you
don't have the system set up,right Like you're just growing
(22:52):
your business through organicmarketing.
And, you know, I'm wondering isthat a bit of a facade, right?
Like you know, I can think of acouple of specific coaches you
know that I'm thinking aboutright now who claim that they're
making all like millions ofdollars and they're just using
(23:13):
Instagram.
Is that?
I think it's possible.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
I think it's possible , but don't think it's the most
efficient way.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
No, I don't think it is either.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And I don't think it will work for a lot of for
everybody.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
No, it probably can work, for you know a few people.
But the other thing that I wasthinking when you were talking
about that too, is it you know,yes, you, you start off with the
client attraction thing and youknow building the community and
putting yourself out there.
But once you've sort of likecreated a bit of a foundation
(23:46):
for yourself and you have thosesystems in place, it always
comes back to authenticity,which we've talked about a
couple of times already.
But I think it's just like howare you using the platform that
serves?
Like you and and like yourgoals and all that stuff.
Like, do you know what I meanor do you want?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
to tell me about it.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
It's just like how are you using it to align with,
like, your values and the wayyou're seeing your business grow
and develop?
And like how are you puttingyourself out there and
connecting with people so thatit's like true to you and you're
not like putting on a show oran act or like?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
I think that's I think, after watching this thing
with Mark Groves and afterdigesting all this information,
I'm seeing social media from adifferent perspective now or
something, and it just became soobvious to me the people who
are putting on a show versus thepeople who are authentically
(24:51):
just showing up to be like here.
This is me and this is thecontent I'm producing to, I
don't know, share with you.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah.
I got it, I got it, I got it.
You throw on a little shade, alittle.
It's okay, a little, I'm justlike just be authentic, Like.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Like I almost want to just unfollow a bunch of people
.
That I just can't Now that Ihave this different perspective.
You know, when you have adifferent perspective you just
can't unsee some things and I'mjust like I don't want to watch
that anymore.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, yeah, I do know what you mean.
Sounds yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Something to keep in mind.
And another thing, too, that hetalked about was how can you
build safety into this guy's atherapist?
I think his background istherapy too, yeah, so you know
he's not really.
I think he is a coach now, butI think his background is in
relationship therapy.
(26:03):
But he was talking about howyou can build strategies to
create safety when you'renavigating these platforms.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Like safety for just yourself and your own nervous
system.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, I think the last thing to mention is again
from a business standpoint.
Remember the attention and thefollowers and the traffic that
you have on social media.
You don't technically own it.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
The platform owns it.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
So that is another tick in Mark's column of like,
building a business based 100%on social media.
Traffic is inherently riskybecause, like, yeah, these
platforms are unpredictable, thealgorithms are unpredictable.
Occasionally, people lose theiraccounts for various reasons
(27:03):
that are either their fault orthe platforms fault, or a
combination of both or neither.
And so an example of trafficthat you own is like your email
list.
Right, yeah, it doesn't matterif your email provider closes
your account.
As long as you're backed upyour email list, you can take
that list to a different emailprovider and resume sending
contact to those people.
Yeah, you own that contactinformation.
(27:25):
Your follower list on, let'ssay, instagram, for example, you
can't get shut down.
It doesn't matter if you havethe list saved.
You can't just open a newInstagram account and import
that list and have all thosefollowers back.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah, it doesn't work Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
So I think we should try to kind of be off social
media games.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah Well, I think, just like, diversify where
you're showing up, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I think we should do a whole other episode on that.
Yeah, and just what's the stuffwe can do to build our business
that doesn't involve socialmedia.
I think people would like that.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Yeah, let's do that.
I think that's important, butthey got to pay for that episode
.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
You have to send a money order for seven British
pounds to Ryan Lopsis, care ofmy office PO Box Anyways.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
No, it'll be one of the three episodes.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
So wasn't there like a whole thing?
I think when I was away therewas like a whole thing about
TikTok getting shut down orsomething like that, or a band
in Canada or North America.
Was that a thing?
Because I feel like I heardgrumblings of like TikTok's
going to get shut down, that's ano, you're thinking of Tic Tac
Toe.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
They're going to plant and they're going to ban
Tic Tac Toe worldwide.
Worldwide, because of all thestubbed toe and finger injuries
epidemic levels.
Yeah, the US Senate orsomething, voted to potentially
(28:54):
ban TikTok in the United States.
I don't think it's actuallybeen signed into law yet and
then because of that, then thenews in Canada was saying oh,
Canada's going to follow usthrough.
I don't think anything hasactually happened yet, but
they've been talking about thatfor years.
They've been talking about thatfor years.
(29:14):
And Chinese spies and all thesedifferent things.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
If you're going to ban it.
Ban it if not.
Show she Stop talking about it.
Yeah.
Yeah, all right, so I guessthat's it.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
So watch out for that episode where we'll tell you
exciting strategies like justgoing around your neighborhood
and knocking on doors, leavingflyers underneath windshield
wipers to talk about yourbusiness, and other ways to
attract clients without usingsocial media.
That was a joke.
There's much better ways thanthat, but anyways.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Okay, good.
Cool Well on that note followus on Instagram at it's the most
, he says.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Best way to get ahold of us.
Instagram and Facebook, forsure.
Join my free group on Facebook.
It's awesome.
Yeah, all right Got to be inthe link.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Okay, that's it.
Bye everyone.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Ciao.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.