August 13, 2025 • 47 mins
Andrews and Wilson are back with the fourth book in the Sons of Valor series!
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(00:12):
Hey guys, I'm. Chris, now Mike.
Welcome back to this week's No Limits the Thriller podcast.
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(00:32):
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(00:53):
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(01:13):
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Yep, Yep. Awkward.
We're not used to doing this kind of business.
We just want to talk books. I know it feels takes us back to
like the the the beginning days when we were really trying to
(01:56):
like sell ourselves right off the bat, but.
It's not our wheelhouse. Our wheelhouse is just two Bros
talking books. Yeah, so that's what you're here
for. Well, you come for a damn good
conversation because we read this week Sons of Valor, Four
False Flag, Andrews and Wilson, and I have to say, I'm like,
(02:19):
it's good to be back in the Sonsof Valley universe.
It is. It was not disappoint.
It it I would have to say it notmy favorite.
Agreed. Very hard to come off of the
last trilogy for sure. It's like it's already a peg.
I'm going to not get a peg down because like, I don't know how
you're going to live up to that.But I will say it definitely
(02:42):
didn't disappoint. I'm I'm going to give it a a
solid rating. I think it's enjoyable.
You know, potentially kick starting like the next trilogy.
Whatever you want. Sure, super.
Emotional trilogy. Like if the last one was Kasim
Nadar, this one's definitely going to be Reza the Iranian.
(03:02):
Right and super emotional, man yeah, super emotional I.
Think so? That's the catch 22.
I unfortunately can't but help compare this to the first 3
which were lights out phenomenalstorytelling from villains.
Honestly, I think I said this inour boys over a year ago now and
(03:23):
our Sons of Valor 3 review. I think Kasim Nadar might be one
of the best crafted characters in all thrillers.
It going on the journey of his rise and his fall was so
amazing, so in depth and that character like lives in in my
mind rent free. He was so good and sort of come
(03:45):
to this book after absolutely loving that series.
It's just disappointing that youknow, I didn't like it as much
as the first 3, but it was stillreally good.
I feel like if you put a different title on this book,
change the characters names, butgive them the same kind of
relationships, I'd like this book more just because they
won't compare it to their earlier works in the Sons of
(04:06):
Valor universe. So I feel like that's the
downside. But then the flip side is the
whole second-half of this book had me captivated.
Edge of my seat stuff. And really once they get to the
palace and start the investigation, I thought that
was phenomenal writing. So enjoyable.
(04:26):
And then it had a Vince Flynn style race to the finish line,
which was almost like the final half or third of the book was an
entire race to the finish line. So it's like all that was so
amazing. Yet the double edged sword is I
can't help but compare it to thelast three, which were far and
away better, light years better.Yeah, I mean, it's that's one of
the problems with successor like, you know, you have to
(04:47):
always try to top yourself. But all right, let's put the
first trilogy aside aside. Yeah, we, we've, we've made our
comment. We this this one does not crack,
does not surpass the third. Definitely the third and 2nd we
can have a conversation about whether or not it passes Suns of
other one, but you know, that's semantics.
(05:10):
So clearly they're trying to setup a new story here.
We immediately start out with this interesting flashback,
right? We we come to realize that it's
a it's a flashback of these two young ideologues on a yacht that
are really going to drive the story going forward.
(05:31):
And, you know, to really think about this idea.
But you know, in the past they had the last novel, they had
these this one singular villain.And now we have sort of this
juxtaposition, one Saudi, one Irani, like, how are we going to
bring this together? One full of privilege, the other
(05:53):
one, like the complete. They're complete opposites,
right? In a sense, yeah.
And the one is trying to feed onthe other.
And in the end, like it's crazy when Faisal just gets killed.
It's Reza's only way out one way.
Out. Yeah, of course.
That's it. And he he's playing the game.
And the crazy thing is it opens.You think they're really good
(06:15):
friends. And I went back and reread that
opening scene after knowing who Reza was and and what he ends up
doing. The clues are there from the
beginning. He was playing him like a fiddle
the whole time. And then as we meet his boss,
Golrani, or something like that in the Iranian Ministry of
Intelligence, we learned he was groomed for this since he was a
(06:37):
boy, really a teenager. When they sent him to college.
The idea was to befriend the Crown Prince and ingratiate
himself with the, with the the Royals, knowing the Crown Prince
Faisal was was going to be at Oxford.
And so they went to college together.
They became friends. All this partying and the yacht
scene was really just to get inside and plant the seed.
And it was equally fun. Even though Reza is that good at
(06:59):
what he's doing and believes in himself, watching him be
surprised when Faisal actually kills his brother and usurps the
throne, or at least usurps the Crown Prince duties, Reza was
shocked. He his mind was blown.
He almost got giddy in that scene.
He got like ahead of himself. And I just thought that was a
lot of fun to not only like the audience wasn't underestimating
(07:23):
the villain, but the villain himself was underestimating
himself, you know, like he didn't even think this thing
would happen. And when it does, it kind of
unleashes a new side of him thatwe didn't see.
And and he just keeps up the persona he and then he becomes
the ambassador. Like he has all that planned
out. Like everything is meticulously
planned. It's kind of like old Soviet
Union spy shit, you know, to have this deep a level of
(07:45):
penetration, Carla stuff. And, you know, here the Iranians
are doing it to the Saudis with the end game of turning them
against the West, getting, you know, the royal family out of
the West pocket and making all these deals with Israel and the
US. What a plot.
Yeah. And you know, initially when I,
when the plot is developing and,you know, there's going to be
(08:08):
this assassination of the Crown Prince and they set it up for
Israelis, I just assumed. And then we introduce Raza.
I just assumed that it was all his plan from the very
beginning. And then you throw in this
wrinkle, like you said, of how it's truly like a mind
manipulation game and things were blossoming on its own.
(08:28):
And I think that's it's so intriguing to see like these
these Co villains in a sense of like but the 1 was definitely
created from the other like a nurtured and and and brought
about. And in the end, like Riser
doesn't understand, doesn't knowwhat Faisal would do.
Like he thinks he knows what he'll do.
(08:48):
He's imploring that he knows what he'll do, But he that's why
he has to kill him in the end, because he's he's totally right.
This guy was going to try to weasel his way out, blame it on
the the the non rich. The underling is, you know,
whatever the Iranian I like to me that that twist at the end,
while I didn't see you coming, is perfect.
(09:11):
Makes perfectly sense. And then then couple that with
that just happened. Rise is getting himself out of
the building, out of the palace,and he catches eyes with
Whitney. I thought that was an amazing
plant where I I wouldn't have been that interested in a round
two of all these characters, like Part 2 wouldn't have really
got me all that invested. But since he locked eyes with
(09:33):
Whitney and knows, you know, she's the American whore who
took me down and ruined my plans, you know, he's going to
have that mindset. He is so dead set on coming
after her and finding out who she is.
That's the fuel that keeps me invested to want a second book
with him as a villain. I, I don't know if the rest of
the book did enough to want me to kick you.
Stick around with him. Also, that other thing, I guess
(09:54):
we're supposed to be kind of hooked with his girlfriend.
She's a child of somebody powerful and she has emotions.
Herself, Yeah. Yeah, so she's also, and Reza is
assigned to her at one point. He's like, as much as I, I love
the sex and everything. You know, she's like a
supermodel, you know, she's so good.
(10:16):
Yeah, he's, he's like, I'm assigned to her, so I'm supposed
to be working on her. And at the same time, she wants
power. So, you know, she comes from a
family that seems to be in the, in the, the upper classes.
So I, I guess I'm kind of interested in that, but I'm more
interested in how he's going to cross paths with with Whitney.
Yeah, I liked how they set that up, you know, both in and around
(10:38):
the epilogue, having Whitney just like recall, you know, the
face of that guy and literally like, mark it her.
She even says like burns it intoher face because that guy is
going to be important, you know,sort of setting this up that
they're going to clash in the future.
And then bringing it back to Reza and all he's on the
airplane, right? And all he can think, he has
(11:00):
this beautiful model of a airline attendant who will
probably do whatever for him. But the only thing you can think
about is Whitney's face. And so, like, just that
juxtaposition of the two, that'sthe only thing they can think
about is each other. I think that probably sets up
the next book. And I, you know, got me
intrigued. I was bought in for the next
one. Oh great.
(11:20):
They are still dangling out the Watson chunk relationship
though. There were a few steps forward.
It was like, you know, 2 steps forward, one step back.
But we didn't really go anywhere.
It was like. All right.
I felt like they've perfectly set it up at the end of the
last. End of last book, right?
They almost kissed, I think theywere.
Bound to the London Eye, like, and now, all right, as summer
(11:43):
goes by and like, oh, we got to take a step back and then we got
to be super awkward about it. Let's go back to high school.
Thinking about each other on allthe.
Constantly. Constantly.
But they were apart this entire book, pretty much.
They were. Yeah, except for the NASCAR
opening. OK, opening.
I was saving up. For.
(12:04):
When do we talk about Sawyer Saw?
Saw, man. Yeah.
Although I'll be honest, as soonas we had the NASCAR scene and
we were with the family. You know it was coming.
I said it. I said to myself, actually, I
put in my notes, let me see whatI wrote down.
Literally reading chapter one ortwo, whatever it was of this
book, I wrote shit, please don'tkill.
Saw this book and I wrote that right at the NASCAR scene when
(12:28):
they're all riding high. Happy family.
I'm like. I mean, yeah, it's like the
what's the quintessential, you know, you present it just to
have it. Check off gun.
Yeah, exactly. You're not going to put that
NASCAR scene there without something.
I mean, although the counter argument there is they could
just be referencing what happened in the past, you know,
showing saw moving on. He decided to stick with the
(12:50):
team. Because that was a very big
scene at the last album. Big.
Part of the last two books. Yeah.
And so I thought it might just be cementing that, you know,
Saw's going to be this Family Guy and this team's guy that
Chunk and Whitney could maybe look at and go, huh, maybe we
can have that, too. I bet his death makes it even
harder for Chunk and Whitney to think because they were talking
(13:10):
kids at one point, which was crazy.
He was like, do you see yourselfas a mom?
He's like, oh, shit, did I just ask that?
And she's like, do you see yourself as a dad?
And they were both kind of playing coy about it.
I think Saw's death is going to make it even harder for them to
wrap their heads around. Is that life possible?
No, it's a, it's a super interesting dynamic.
I, I don't ultimately know what I, I mean, I guess I want them
(13:33):
to get together, but then it's like what happens after that,
you know? Yeah, I'm surprised they they're
touching it. Like I was wondering when we
first met Watts. You remember that scene when
she's in the I? Just thought that they were
going to completely avoid it. I thought they were just going
to be almost brother, sister, like, professional relationship,
(13:53):
utmost respect for each other. They're in the trenches together
and, you know, never even like pop into their mind.
And then in Book 2, it pops intoJohn's mind.
That one, three. Yeah.
Yeah, the bar scene. And he's questioning, Yeah, he's
he's he's making comments about her.
And he's like, I guess if you'refeeling it naturally, it's got
to come up. I was, I think Andrews and
Wilson had to make that choice. You're either never going to do
(14:16):
it or you're going to do it. And it's going to be a keystone
of the the series. You're all in or you're all out.
Yeah. So what's your, are you
supportive of it or? No, you'd rather not ship them?
You ship them, you ship them. I do too.
I want to say that. I want to say that.
I think even if just for the cutesiness of it all, you know,
(14:37):
like it's just, it's just meant to be.
Yeah. It's like a Disney.
It's a, it's like a Disney storyin the sandbox, you know, it's
like. But I'm going to be pissed off
if like the next book is just like this.
Same shit. Yeah.
It's like the Bear. Oh my God.
You watch the Bear, The cooking show about the restaurant.
Have you gotten to the new season?
(14:57):
Season 4. No I'm not, I have not watched
season 4 yet. It's the same freaking thing,
same conversations. You watch a 30-40 minute episode
and they literally have the exact same talk they've been
having however many times. So anyway, I hope it doesn't
become that because this season the bears pissing me off, not
(15:21):
doing anything new, so I don't want this series to become that
with chunk and heels. Yeah, we talked about the big
heavy hitters, though. There's a lot of other
incredible side characters, two of which stand out to me as
making our free space. When we get to the store
scorecard, I might want to save the talk for them.
But I, I, I'm wondering, I thinkyou're going to be on the same
(15:42):
page with who those 2 might be. Is one of them Israeli and one
of them has four legs? Oh damn, I guess there's 4 then.
All the Israelis were operating with and Thor definitely a
runners up, but now there's two others.
So Thor's not Israeli, he's an actual seal, and I think he's
being lined up to maybe replace Saw with the team.
(16:03):
Like like that's like Thor and his handler.
I forget his handler's name. I.
Forget the name. Yeah.
Yeah, they can use him on the team.
That would be good. I was surprised he made it in
that tunnel scene when? With the with the IED.
We sniffed out the IED. Jumping out of a plume of
explosive smoke, Yeah. Yeah, I was shocked at that.
I thought in those in the tunnels, a lot more was going to
go down, and then everyone kind of walked away unscathed.
(16:25):
Well, except for the terrorists.Yeah, when Watts blows up that
truck, that's pretty sweet. And she's the one who gives the
command. She is Mother is God, Mother is
God. It's a.
Great. What a great tribute she gave,
right? There all right, so let's
transition into the scorecard then, because since we're like
sort of dabbling into action suspense, I think where this
(16:47):
book excels is the action sequences.
It's, you know, the, the Halo insertion, it's the boat scene,
like juxtaposition, like the, you know, we're having both
teams come in on helicopters. They're trying to tackle both
(17:08):
boats. The.
Syrian choppers. That was pretty.
Great. And then couple that with, you
know, the extended mission. All right, well now we got to go
into these Gaza tunnels and and fight to the end like that was
amazing. Good stuff.
Yeah, I'm a little tired of the tunnel stuff only in the sense
(17:28):
of we have read so many books with shootouts at tunnels.
I feel like of our recent spat, Jack Carr kicked it off at the
end of was the most Red Sky morning, Red Sky morning.
That like underwater tunnel. And then Speaking of Andrews and
Wilson, their last dark rising novel in The Shepherd.
Tunnel. There was a tunnel.
There was a tunnel. Scene.
(17:51):
I think we had another one somewhere.
Did I feel like Breath or Scott's always finding little
puzzles? He's always.
Funny, Donald. No, there's one.
Oh, we read Steve Berry, the Templar.
Oh yeah, there was a tunnel. A lot of tunnel.
Legacy. That one was cool though at the
end with all like the historical.
(18:11):
Booby traps. Try to find the The Ark or
whatever it was they're looking for.
Yeah, I, I don't know. I was a little over the tunnel
shootout stuff because we've done that a million times.
But having the dog was awesome. Yeah, I, I thought that was
good. But I, I'm going to say for
action, suspense, what really bumps me up, couple of points.
There wasn't much action. It was edge of your seat
(18:32):
suspense. When the investigative team is
in the palace, when they're in the belly of the beast and Saud
is watching them in the palace. Guard works for Faisal and
they're they're pissing him off like Milliken from the FBI is
giving him the business. She's running the crime scene.
No nonsense. Sam is snapping pictures.
With that camera I want, I want Milliken and Sam Octavius to
(18:56):
come back. Sam was the dude IA. 100% agree.
Sam was one of. Jacked NSA nerd like that's
awesome. Using the camera to hack into
their systems like the digital camera has all the tech to do
that. You know, crazy NSA stuff.
He was one of my 2 candidates for free space.
(19:16):
So yeah, Sam was awesome. But the whole time they're in
there doing that investigation of the murder and they're
pushing all the right buttons. Then also with Theobald, the guy
from DIA who has that great relationship with Whitney ever
since they went back to Afghanistan, right?
And he saved her life there and that was that.
Like a hotel. I think 1.
(19:38):
I think that's 2. Is that 2?
It could be. It could.
Be one. They all blend together.
I know what they. They start blending together,
but he was such a great character, such a great support
here. I like his.
He's a badass team leader for this investigative team.
I I, I just like his Wall 50. Two, right?
Yeah, they say. But he also knows how to balance
like when Milliken was pushing too hard he realized they had to
(19:59):
do a little good cop bad cop give and take.
Like he was almost playing perfect diplomat, team leader
and just badass no nonsense. When he pulls the gun on the guy
in the in the morgue, I. Really love that team, I think
and and that team not only boosts up good guys, it boosts
up plot because that was when I felt like the plot really
clicked and it boosts for me action slash suspense because
(20:21):
that was more suspenseful I would say than the other action
scenes to me. Yeah, I was intrigued to see how
this is going to work out when Iwhen I saw what they were doing
that All right, because off the RIP, right, They pretty much
address it with the president saying that Whitney and Chuck
are going to be separated when he's going to lead up this
investigation. Team Chunk, you're going to wear
(20:42):
a sign in the Tier 1 Gold Squadron to, you know, sort of
be ready to act if anything popsoff, right?
Yeah. So which it does with the ships
when they get the Intel on the ships.
So from the very beginning, we knew that they were I, I figured
most likely they're not going tointeract with each other the
entire no. And I was like, all right, well,
it's going to be interesting to see how you do this.
(21:03):
And I would agree with you that the, the suspense, especially
leading up to the, you know, getting out of the palace, going
back, going, deciding to, you know, going to the embassy,
getting out of the embassy. Going up on the embassy roof to
or to hop the roof of SUV. Oh, wait, hop the wall.
The only way we can say, like, save the world is to go back to
(21:24):
the embassy where it's being overrun by, you know, these
protesters. And then you have set, like, the
team sweat up, obviously. So you have Sam on the airplane
and like you know the whole Argolike like scene at the end of.
That very Argo feel. Trying to, you know, get off.
They eventually get off the termX, but without these cars
chasing them like that, that wasjust, it was cool.
(21:44):
Dude and all of that stuff I felt like took place in the
second-half of the book. It feels like that three quarter
mark is really just everything is ramping up.
It was a little slow in the beginning to get there.
So that might be a Ding on plot slash buy in.
But once we got there, once we hit the pet scene in the palace,
the rioters, the embassy then goes to the ships with with the
(22:07):
saw scene go, then we go into the tunnels.
That's just when this book was clicking.
So action suspense wrapping all that up.
Where do you land? I.
Think it's 8.5. Yeah, I was going to say 8.
I'm going to say 8. My Ding is the the first half of
the book being a little slow to develop.
Yeah, I'm going to Ding that on plot for sure.
(22:29):
Yeah. True, true, true.
I just mean slow in terms of action suspense.
I cared about the plot moving along, but it wasn't
action-packed. So yeah, all right, plot then.
So my big like problem with thisis just the faisal's a kind of
an idiot. Kind of the point though.
(22:54):
Everything is banked on the factthat, oh shit, we have to tell
the the only one who can save the day is the king.
I don't know. I was just like, yeah, it was
cool with them. Like going back, like deciding
to do we're at the embassy, we're going to go or we're at
the airport. We're going to go back to the
embassy and then potentially back to the the palace.
(23:14):
All that was great. But I'm just like, this is what
you're you're you're staking like the the future of the
Middle East on this, the only way we can do it.
Yeah, I was. I was a little unbought.
Interesting. That's funny because I was going
to say that's where I make up ground because I was bought in.
Really. OK, interesting.
(23:34):
And even zoom out further the backdrop of the Saudis and the
Iranians. Talk me in, talk me in.
I'm always talking to you and you talk me in.
I'll talk to you in a little, but I'm I'm also going to back
up a little because the Saudis and the Iranians in bed together
is a plot so unbelievably fake and would never happen.
And like doesn't make any sense to get me to actually believe
that it could in this way, that there's a deep cover plot by
(23:59):
Iran that has been baked and embedded and using the family
dynamics against them. I just think the palace intrigue
was played perfectly by Iran with a deep cover asset.
And while I would never believe,you know, the whole Sunni Shia
split, all geopolitics, right, of the Saudis wanting to be the
major power broker Iran, basically their only leverage is
to fund proxy groups against theSaudis.
(24:20):
You know, on their border, they're involved in Syria,
they're involved in Yemen. You know that basically that's
that's the only card they have to play.
So the these are the two Titans of the Middle East.
And as long as they don't see eye to eye and don't get in bed
together, it's going to be a geopolitical hot, you know,
hotspot with alliances and Western powers coming in.
And the Chinese and the Russiansare going to want to deal with
(24:43):
them and get in bed with one versus the other, play them
against each other. So for them two to come
together, I never thought I would buy into that.
This got me to buy into it, which I think is is crazy, but
it's all due to the relationshipbetween Reza and Faisal.
So that worked. And then the palace intrigue of
it all. I absolutely loved how Faisal
(25:05):
has to kind of lie to the people.
Oh, after his phone call with the American president, he knew
he was in a tough position. He had to tell his people.
I got the president right where I want him.
You know, I have the upper hand here.
And the razor tells him, you really want the upper hand.
Release the information now to the world, start the riots, get
this thing going. And he does it.
I was kind of bought into all that happening.
(25:27):
I don't know why it worked for me and and I think on plot I
also go 8 out of 10. All right, all right, Yeah,
yeah, I don't know. I don't know why I'm like being
so hung up by that. I I think it is crazy though,
that to think, you know, that this idea of having and it it
sort of cements this idea that all right, this would be a super
(25:49):
scary thing if this were to actually come to virtually these
the two strongest powers who don't see eye to eye, but
actually coming togethers. Ally to unite Islam?
Yeah. Yeah, you're bringing me, you're
bringing me a back back down a little bit.
So I think I. Think there's many books that
could have written that as a major plot point and got me to
buy in and. Buy it this.
(26:11):
One did and and the thing with the king, when Whitney said she
had to do that, I was like oh shit, she's right.
It it's the only card they have left to play.
The only person who can trump Faisal is the King, and there's
no way to get to the king while Faisal controls the palace and
his people control the palace. So because of that, got to find
the loyalist. You got to sneak in under the
radar, find the loyalist. And Chris, I'm just going to
(26:32):
give my free space. It's the ambassador, The woman
ambassador. She is from the jump.
When we meet her, you know she'ssomebody you're going to trust
when her and Watts get to have that coded conversation in the
car because they know the driver.
Super. Suspenseful there too.
It's so suspenseful in the way they're kind that, you know,
they've got that vibe where they're they're they're picking
(26:53):
up on what each other's putting down.
I knew they were going to have to do some shit together.
And she's the one who orchestrates them to get snuck
into the palace and and get the king and and convince the king
to turn against his own son. And I, that plot point just
worked for me. So good.
It worked so good for me. Yeah, Princess Ramia is is a
(27:14):
very good character. She's the best, you know, kind
of, you know, her father, they didn't really even touch on
that. But her father was the one who
got, you know, slaughtered like and, you know, very interesting
to put her there as a character to be this like stand alone for
what, you know, the Crown Princewanted and everything that
(27:37):
Faisal and but maybe even his father is against.
But in the end that they come together, they agree that's
that's a good, that's a good free space.
When her head is on the choppingblock, but she does what's right
for her country anyway because she sees the path that it's
going down. Powerful stuff.
Yeah. And got me to buy into the plot
all the more that she wanted to take down Faisal and knew the
(27:59):
Americans were the way to do that.
And I will say that whole like sequence of them sneaking back
into the palace, like in the Range Rover pretty good in the
trunk, like, you know, getting to his room like all of a sudden
freaking what's Theobald is a MacGyver Dr. and he's able to.
Know some medicines to give him.And it makes sense.
(28:20):
He's like, oh, like I, I misreadthis stuff.
Like, so OK, I was bought in. But yeah, it was just, it was
fun, like. That honestly might be my
favorite part of the book. Everything from the
investigative team trying to getback to the embassy through the
riots, then sneaking them back in to wake the king.
That just, like, sequence of events was my favorite thing
(28:41):
about the book. Even Trump's.
All the action scenes, really. Yeah.
And Andrews and Wilson's wheelhouse, like you said
earlier, is the action, them riding the ship takedowns, them
riding the tunnel scenes. The the the jump with the with
the with the dog is freaking parachuting in.
Dude and then also where chunk goes vertical he goes upside
down on the parachute to throw the frag on the roof.
(29:03):
For a heck. See, all that stuff is great,
but I expected in a thriller yougot your tunnel scene, you got
your ship takedown. These are, you know, seals or
whatever. This is a tier one team.
Check in the box. I expect all that.
So when I'm reading it, I reallylike it.
But when you can craft a plot that's as crafty as what they're
doing inside the palace, that tome just goes next level.
(29:24):
All right, So what are you giving for buying?
You give 8.5 per plot. I gave a 7.5.
Yeah, I gave a flat 8 on plot. Flat 8 OK.
I'm going 4 out of five on buy in because it took a lot to get
to that point where I was invested.
But once I was, I was in. But the one point Ding is like
the first third little less thanthe first half where I was like,
(29:45):
come on, let's get there already.
Let's get this team on the ground.
Let's get in there. So 4 out of five.
I think you in talking to you, you brought me up.
I was a three and I'm going to go up to A4.
I'm more bought in now after talking to you about.
OK, all right, all right. It's not perfect.
I'll admit that it's no and is nowhere near as good as Kasim
(30:06):
Nadar and the drone stuff. Nowhere near as good as his
manipulation by was it? Who's his Pakistani friend?
Right exactly the wedding scene.Like nowhere near as good as all
that stuff. It's still a good, it's still a
good story to me. Still a good story.
All right, bad guys. Yeah, we would.
What do you think about Faisal, who ultimately like, you know,
(30:30):
doesn't it does, you know, obviously it gets killed.
Interesting character. But then also this, you know, we
we sort of touched on it at the very beginning, introducing this
rise of character. Who is he going to become, you
know, fuelled to be something bigger than he currently is,
Because I thought like he was going to act bigger.
But in the end, he kind of like he had he realized that he had
(30:53):
to defer like he, you know, there was times where he could
have bullied Faisal more. Sure.
Oh, he could have. He definitely like played those
spy card and, you know, trusted confidant very smoothly.
He's very, he's very slippery. I think he needs slippery.
That's a great word. I think if you push too hard, if
he was too direct, Faisal would have seen that as an affront or
(31:15):
a challenge or would have woken up to their relationship.
So I think that every time he was like, but of course, we
defer to your decision. You know your.
Highness, Your Highness. Yeah, your, your Highness, of
course you you can authorize this or not.
You know, I think he just was the ultimate weasel in that.
So Faisal as a villain is not really that big bad of a
(31:37):
villain, although he he tries tobe, he tries to wear those
pants. He's not, but Reza is.
And because of that, compared toKasim Nadar, I want to go like a
three out of five. But objectively they're a good
duo. And and once you throw Saud the
garden, I think we'll go 3 1/2. 3 1/2 All right, I'll meet you
(32:00):
there at 3 1/2 because I guess we would have to look back and
see what we gave Kasim Nagar in books one and two.
That'll be A5. It it it should be.
Remember fun time. Yeah, fun time.
You know what is A5 on this book?
It's good, guys. They're good guys, easy.
(32:20):
I mean to introduce 2 new characters to bring back
Theobald completely and these two new characters that I
personally want around again andI hope they figure out a way to
intertwine them into the group somehow.
You know, just like we have ye like you know yeah.
Is is there a place for Sam? And I'm liking on the FBI chicks
(32:42):
name but. Yeah, Milkin.
Milkin. Milkin.
Yeah. Like these interesting
characters. Like they well thought of well
developed. Not only them, but also some of
the Israelis or even sure and his handler like the other
operators that they're they're downrange with, you know, even
some of them to to come back andcameo or bring them in, you
know, replace you can't replace them, but replace saw or bring a
(33:03):
new guy on expand the team a little.
I think there's an opportunity. Agreed.
Yeah, I'm going. I'm going 5.
Five out of five on good guys. Yeah.
And you? Oh, I figured it out.
You had asked me, is there something missing about the
president and the transition of power?
Who would the vice president took over after an
assassination. I was racking my brain.
(33:26):
I'm like, I think it happened but I don't remember it.
In Sons of Valor, that transition happens in the Tier
One series with Dempsey. I knew we were missing
something. That's the president, the vice
president Jarvis in Dempsey, thesecond to last, second to latest
Tier one book and then he's fullpresident and Ember the most
(33:48):
recent tier one book. And, and I love how Team Ember
has mentioned a bunch of times, like the president's wife
overseas, she's a lady over. That member, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, that's Dempsey's team.
So I think a lot of the White House Situation Room stuff, we
see more in Tier one than we do Sons of Valor.
But since it's an intertwined universe, that's why we kind of
felt like some gaps were missing.
(34:09):
Because unfortunately, I, I, I haven't had the time to read
that series. I, I, it's something that I, I,
it's on my list. I want to.
Yeah, I've only read a few, but yeah, yeah.
But I love Sons of Valor so muchthat like, I, I don't care like
that. I didn't understand that, but I
definitely could feel it. You know, obviously being in
(34:29):
this world and reading novels that, you know, rely on 26 book
connections while also not trying to rely on 20, you could
just feel that something was missing there.
I think tier one has only like 10 though, I think.
I don't think it's that that bigyet.
But yeah, something was missing with the way Jarvis was
explained but not really explained and his wife was
involved but not really involvedin the Parkinson's.
(34:52):
It kind of if you just take thatit.
Never comes up again after the first like 3 novels, yeah.
It never comes up to you to takethat for what it is.
It could be a Ding on this book,but it just hints at a wider
universe. And if that wider universe were
left on a dress, that'd be a problem.
But it is addressed just in another series.
Yeah, good guys, Really, really special.
(35:14):
I would say best part of the book, I mean honestly, most fun
part of the book is is reading about all these people.
I love the setting. I think it was OK.
I think it was. OK, it was OK.
The palace I felt like. That was like the best part of
the setting, like to put us in the mind of the palace.
(35:36):
They didn't do a great job on like making me feel like I was
on the water like in the Med, you know?
The ship seemed kind of half baked like chunk stuff.
His missions almost just seemed as a side plot Side Story.
Yeah, it almost it it it at times it did felt like all
right, this is a Whitney Watts novel, and we need to have Chunk
in here doing something. Exactly right.
(35:57):
Doing something, yeah. And.
What's crazy about it is that Whitney doesn't even know what
he's doing until the very end. No.
Yeah, and and I mean, you do have to tie in this palace stuff
with the nuke stuff, so. Yes, they're interrelated in the
palace stuff than the nuke stuff.
Let's just be honest. Completely agree 100%.
(36:18):
Aside from like the fact that I love the action part better
there in, but every time they went, they went back to chunk.
I'm like no, no, no, let's, let's no be here.
I agree, 100% agree, and it almost sucks that like the trope
of there has to be a nuke on theloose, you know, like they're
right. They're going to blow a nuke in
Israel and start a false flag war.
(36:39):
It's like you need those stakes,You need that drama.
Yet even that world ending kind of scenario was not the drama I
cared most about. The drama I cared most about is,
is she going to make it safely to the embassy?
Is she going to get pulled through the window?
You know, is she going to find the king and present the video?
Is the king going to believe her?
That drama was so much more intriguing and and powerful to
(37:02):
me than a nuke going off in Israel, which is crazy to say.
And she didn't even know there was a nuke.
She didn't even know. Yeah.
Yeah. And then it's pretty cool how
she does come back in the end tofind the tunnel.
Sure. And use her analyst skills to
blow the van. Yeah, but they.
They. She had she had enough stakes
with her plot that it didn't need a nuke.
(37:24):
You know where it's like Chunks wasn't a nuke would have been
even less interesting. But it is tied up because that
is part of Rice's plan, like to push this attack to cement
Faisal's. Leadership you know a villain.
I was disappointed in the his like counter mate at the
MIOSMOMO history of. The intelligence inside Tehran,
(37:50):
Yeah, yeah. Mois.
But I did like his boss though. I like his boss but no like the
the guy that chunks after right?Ultimately, he was a coward like
you know. Because he just wanted to leave
the tunnel, let others do The Dirty work.
He's like, if this thing blows, I'm just going to get out of
here. Yeah, he was weak.
He brings villains down. And he's the reason that Whitney
(38:13):
even figured it out, because shesees a single guy, like come out
of the pop up, Yeah, in the middle of the night.
He probably could knock down villains half a point or so but
I'm just not going to do that but but probably could.
All right. We the setting, I think it's
like a mixed bag. It's sort of half and half.
(38:35):
Yeah. 2 1/2 Three. Go 3.
Just keep it right down the middle.
Keep. It right in the 30.
Not the best, though. Not the finest.
Even inside the palace, I liked more what the characters were
doing. It didn't necessarily have the
descriptive language. Yeah, it didn't really describe
(38:55):
it. I couldn't really feel it.
It wasn't really visual to me. What was visual as the
characters, their dialogue, their actions, their
conversations, the actual place and location was not visual at
all. So what do we say?
Three. Yeah.
Then tunnels. I'm just.
I'm just sick of tunnels. I honestly, I'm going to knock
(39:15):
it down to 2 1/2. Yeah, give Me 2 1/2 and a half.
I've been generous too in earlier categories.
So you know where we're not going to be generous.
I actually don't mind this cover.
You don't mind the cover? OK.
All right. So historically, guys, you can
go back and listen to our Sons of Valor 123.
(39:35):
We're not a big fan of this series cover wise.
Though I have made the argument,at least it has a consistent
voice and that voice does continue.
Here they use the template. It does.
It it has the same kind of feel.I just don't know about the
woman. I'm going to be honest with you.
Don't try to tell me. Maybe the face is watts and
heels, but the outfit, the uniform, I just, I'd never
(39:58):
pictured her in the book doing anything remotely like what
she's wearing. Running from the protesters like
hopping over the fat. She's not dressed like that
coming from the palace after theinvestigative meet.
Yeah. So I'll tell you.
I'll tell you what I'm going to give points to.
I'm going to give points to the helicopter, sure.
(40:20):
The PowerPoint have a helicopterscene.
Give points to the parachuting, sure.
The kid and up operator is something Andrews and Wilson
always do so. It's it's cool.
Have your day? Sure, no problem.
I'm guessing that while before we were starting I was trying to
pinpoint this set of buildings to see if they were real.
(40:42):
Not 100% sure if they are, but it looks to me like this tall.
The tallest building in this right under the R&E.
Big similarity to the Riyadh. What was the building?
It does at the. Kingdom Center, but it doesn't
you're you're right. You were saying that it evokes
like this city in the middle of a desert oil, you know, very
(41:06):
Arab. I'd say it has that.
Abu Dhabi, you know, like. Exactly.
Dubai, if it's not Riyadh or Tehran, you you really had an
opportunity to use one of those,so at least you get the feels of
it, even if it's not the actual city and it could be a city
we're just missing. That's entirely possible.
True. Very true.
(41:26):
Very true. What does that mean then on
cover but. I will say if it is another city
that we're missing, then I'm going to dock it because it
should be either like one of those, it should be Riyadh.
Yeah, it should be. Maybe Tel Aviv, because that's
where like the attack is going to go.
And I looked up Tel Aviv. It's not Tel Aviv.
It's not Tel Aviv. Yeah, that's interesting.
(41:46):
So you had a clear you could have picked either of these two
all. Right.
All right, all that being said, it's straight down the middle.
It's like a 2 1/2 three. Yeah, 2 1/2.
Give me a 2 1/2. I'm with you.
Free State space, though, to enda little positive, I'm going
with the ambassador. Her conversation with Watts, her
(42:07):
sacrifices later on, her really playing the game.
Low key diplomat who knows the power brokers, knows the
insurance and outs of the system.
She just gets it done. She's trustworthy, she's honest,
she's loyal, and in the end she saves not only her country, but
perhaps the entire Middle East and the world.
(42:27):
Really, I think it's all thanks to her.
This plot comes together. I can't see a way things work
out. As good as Watts is, as good as
Chunk is, I don't see this working out without someone like
her. So she played her role
perfectly. All right, well, it's it's tough
because we already like sort of sung their praises in in good
(42:49):
guys. But I was I was super intrigued
by this dog and Navy SEAL combo at at the very end.
And I think I want to know are they going to come back?
Like obviously there's an opening on the team.
It's going to be very hard to replace saw.
But sure, you know, I almost also wanted to give my free
(43:10):
space to Riker, like just to sure his emotional journey to
this book. And you know, it's so funny,
this guy who he literally runs head first into everything and
never gets shot and like, you know, always has a horseshoe up
his butt and and comes out unscathed.
But then to see when his buddy doesn't have that fortune and
(43:33):
him click because he's like the Joker, right?
He's the enormous of the Comic Relief.
And to see that switch, I felt like Anderson wasn't just very,
very much so caught the essence of that, you know, that
relationship between the two of them.
Remember saying that too, at theend of book three, I was like,
Saw had his story, the family stuff in book 2, him sticking
(43:55):
with the team in book three, I was like, we got to see some
evolution from Riker. I think it's time for him to
kind of take a step in who he isand and what he gives.
Like he gives his all for the team, but I mean what he gives
in terms of the story and the and the characters.
And I think we saw a change in him, him reacting to what
happens to Saw he go. He goes like primeval on
everybody. So he even makes his way into my
(44:18):
Limerick. That's how much I liked Riker.
There once was a mole named Rezafooling Prince Faisal.
What a beta as Saw pays the price.
Riker don't play nice. Whitney gets the king, The Data.
Oh. There you go.
All right. It's it's hard to rhyme with
some of those words, so you did a valiant effort there.
Mike, I gave it a shot. I gave.
(44:38):
It a shot. B minus can you start rating my
limericks? Just throw throw out a grade.
I'm going to give it a B plus. AB plus I'm very happy with
because I felt writing it like it was ACC minus.
So thank you. Appreciate it all.
Right. Well, that leaves us, me with a
(44:59):
39, you with a 38.5. Interesting.
Little lower than I thought it was going to be, but.
Yeah, same. I'm glad I praised a number of
things in the beginning, particularly the action, the
suspense, the plot, because thatreally was what had me gripped.
If you look at it as a complete story, I don't know if it did
all the things that I know Andrews and Wilson are capable
(45:19):
of, that we've seen and everything else they've written.
So I think we maybe we're a little harsh, but only because
we're grading it on a curve against what we know.
You know what masterpieces they've put out?
Exactly. Wow, we gave sons of LR47-I.
Don't know if you remember what I did with Sons of Valor 1 and
(45:40):
2. Gave it that perfect fifty.
Yeah, when you weren't there. That was not the real score.
So the real score when I was there was Sons of Valor had a 47
and a 48 and then Sons of Valor 2.
When we scored it, it had a 44 and a 45 and Sons of Valor 3.
(46:01):
What what did we? And it was the lowest but close
4342. So this is a little bit lower
than that one. I think it's just hard to top
that that trilogy, you know, andwe reserve the right maybe
elevating the score if if the next two books or next book, you
know, we'll see how Ryze's stories goes.
So. Yeah, at least I'm interested to
(46:23):
want more of him. You.
Know yeah, I'm intrigued. Same, same.
Before we get out of here, Mike,just like we talked about the
top, we need to thank our patrons, our deputy director,
Sherry F and Brad E, our specialagents, Adam, Mike, Ben, Darryl,
George, Matt, Dawn and Chris. Please subscribe, rate and
(46:46):
review to all three seasons of No Limits on the Apple Podcast.
You can find us.online@thrillerpod.com or on
Twitter and Instagram at Thriller Podcast.
And as always, just let's saw besaw.
Hey guys, I'm. Chris, now Mike.
Welcome back to this week's No Limits the Thriller podcast.
What's new this week, Mike? Much just so excited we were
able to cover Recoil of Justice by Brad Elder, our patron.
And so if you want to become a patron for less than the price
(00:32):
of a novel a month, you too can support the podcast.
To be the reason we can make more podcasts.
Just head to thrillerpod.com. Click the Patreon tab to learn
more. But Chris, we're going to have
to start plugging that at the beginning of every episode
because we always jump right in and just want to talk about the
books. We got to give ourselves a
little credit here. We got a great group of patrons
behind this podcast. Yes we do.
(00:53):
Yes we do. It was great to talk to Brad and
read his book and you know the the group chat like it's
popping. Popping off.
Baby, it is popping. So if you want to be a part of a
a vibrant crowd who love thrillers just as much as you,
go to our website and subscribe.You'll have a fun time, I
(01:13):
guarantee it. One more plug, we're going to
have to start putting this one early in the episodes too.
Our YouTube channel, we hit 100 subscribers.
We're just trying to get that off the ground the last month or
so. But we are full video podcast
now. So for anybody still listening
to audio, come on over, subscribe on YouTube.
We also have a lot of shorts where we take a couple of clips
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So make sure you subscribe even if you listen on Spotify or
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YouTube. It just helps us out.
Yep, Yep. Awkward.
We're not used to doing this kind of business.
We just want to talk books. I know it feels takes us back to
like the the the beginning days when we were really trying to
(01:56):
like sell ourselves right off the bat, but.
It's not our wheelhouse. Our wheelhouse is just two Bros
talking books. Yeah, so that's what you're here
for. Well, you come for a damn good
conversation because we read this week Sons of Valor, Four
False Flag, Andrews and Wilson, and I have to say, I'm like,
(02:19):
it's good to be back in the Sonsof Valley universe.
It is. It was not disappoint.
It it I would have to say it notmy favorite.
Agreed. Very hard to come off of the
last trilogy for sure. It's like it's already a peg.
I'm going to not get a peg down because like, I don't know how
you're going to live up to that.But I will say it definitely
(02:42):
didn't disappoint. I'm I'm going to give it a a
solid rating. I think it's enjoyable.
You know, potentially kick starting like the next trilogy.
Whatever you want. Sure, super.
Emotional trilogy. Like if the last one was Kasim
Nadar, this one's definitely going to be Reza the Iranian.
(03:02):
Right and super emotional, man yeah, super emotional I.
Think so? That's the catch 22.
I unfortunately can't but help compare this to the first 3
which were lights out phenomenalstorytelling from villains.
Honestly, I think I said this inour boys over a year ago now and
(03:23):
our Sons of Valor 3 review. I think Kasim Nadar might be one
of the best crafted characters in all thrillers.
It going on the journey of his rise and his fall was so
amazing, so in depth and that character like lives in in my
mind rent free. He was so good and sort of come
(03:45):
to this book after absolutely loving that series.
It's just disappointing that youknow, I didn't like it as much
as the first 3, but it was stillreally good.
I feel like if you put a different title on this book,
change the characters names, butgive them the same kind of
relationships, I'd like this book more just because they
won't compare it to their earlier works in the Sons of
(04:06):
Valor universe. So I feel like that's the
downside. But then the flip side is the
whole second-half of this book had me captivated.
Edge of my seat stuff. And really once they get to the
palace and start the investigation, I thought that
was phenomenal writing. So enjoyable.
(04:26):
And then it had a Vince Flynn style race to the finish line,
which was almost like the final half or third of the book was an
entire race to the finish line. So it's like all that was so
amazing. Yet the double edged sword is I
can't help but compare it to thelast three, which were far and
away better, light years better.Yeah, I mean, it's that's one of
the problems with successor like, you know, you have to
(04:47):
always try to top yourself. But all right, let's put the
first trilogy aside aside. Yeah, we, we've, we've made our
comment. We this this one does not crack,
does not surpass the third. Definitely the third and 2nd we
can have a conversation about whether or not it passes Suns of
other one, but you know, that's semantics.
(05:10):
So clearly they're trying to setup a new story here.
We immediately start out with this interesting flashback,
right? We we come to realize that it's
a it's a flashback of these two young ideologues on a yacht that
are really going to drive the story going forward.
(05:31):
And, you know, to really think about this idea.
But you know, in the past they had the last novel, they had
these this one singular villain.And now we have sort of this
juxtaposition, one Saudi, one Irani, like, how are we going to
bring this together? One full of privilege, the other
(05:53):
one, like the complete. They're complete opposites,
right? In a sense, yeah.
And the one is trying to feed onthe other.
And in the end, like it's crazy when Faisal just gets killed.
It's Reza's only way out one way.
Out. Yeah, of course.
That's it. And he he's playing the game.
And the crazy thing is it opens.You think they're really good
(06:15):
friends. And I went back and reread that
opening scene after knowing who Reza was and and what he ends up
doing. The clues are there from the
beginning. He was playing him like a fiddle
the whole time. And then as we meet his boss,
Golrani, or something like that in the Iranian Ministry of
Intelligence, we learned he was groomed for this since he was a
(06:37):
boy, really a teenager. When they sent him to college.
The idea was to befriend the Crown Prince and ingratiate
himself with the, with the the Royals, knowing the Crown Prince
Faisal was was going to be at Oxford.
And so they went to college together.
They became friends. All this partying and the yacht
scene was really just to get inside and plant the seed.
And it was equally fun. Even though Reza is that good at
(06:59):
what he's doing and believes in himself, watching him be
surprised when Faisal actually kills his brother and usurps the
throne, or at least usurps the Crown Prince duties, Reza was
shocked. He his mind was blown.
He almost got giddy in that scene.
He got like ahead of himself. And I just thought that was a
lot of fun to not only like the audience wasn't underestimating
(07:23):
the villain, but the villain himself was underestimating
himself, you know, like he didn't even think this thing
would happen. And when it does, it kind of
unleashes a new side of him thatwe didn't see.
And and he just keeps up the persona he and then he becomes
the ambassador. Like he has all that planned
out. Like everything is meticulously
planned. It's kind of like old Soviet
Union spy shit, you know, to have this deep a level of
(07:45):
penetration, Carla stuff. And, you know, here the Iranians
are doing it to the Saudis with the end game of turning them
against the West, getting, you know, the royal family out of
the West pocket and making all these deals with Israel and the
US. What a plot.
Yeah. And you know, initially when I,
when the plot is developing and,you know, there's going to be
(08:08):
this assassination of the Crown Prince and they set it up for
Israelis, I just assumed. And then we introduce Raza.
I just assumed that it was all his plan from the very
beginning. And then you throw in this
wrinkle, like you said, of how it's truly like a mind
manipulation game and things were blossoming on its own.
(08:28):
And I think that's it's so intriguing to see like these
these Co villains in a sense of like but the 1 was definitely
created from the other like a nurtured and and and brought
about. And in the end, like Riser
doesn't understand, doesn't knowwhat Faisal would do.
Like he thinks he knows what he'll do.
(08:48):
He's imploring that he knows what he'll do, But he that's why
he has to kill him in the end, because he's he's totally right.
This guy was going to try to weasel his way out, blame it on
the the the non rich. The underling is, you know,
whatever the Iranian I like to me that that twist at the end,
while I didn't see you coming, is perfect.
(09:11):
Makes perfectly sense. And then then couple that with
that just happened. Rise is getting himself out of
the building, out of the palace,and he catches eyes with
Whitney. I thought that was an amazing
plant where I I wouldn't have been that interested in a round
two of all these characters, like Part 2 wouldn't have really
got me all that invested. But since he locked eyes with
(09:33):
Whitney and knows, you know, she's the American whore who
took me down and ruined my plans, you know, he's going to
have that mindset. He is so dead set on coming
after her and finding out who she is.
That's the fuel that keeps me invested to want a second book
with him as a villain. I, I don't know if the rest of
the book did enough to want me to kick you.
Stick around with him. Also, that other thing, I guess
(09:54):
we're supposed to be kind of hooked with his girlfriend.
She's a child of somebody powerful and she has emotions.
Herself, Yeah. Yeah, so she's also, and Reza is
assigned to her at one point. He's like, as much as I, I love
the sex and everything. You know, she's like a
supermodel, you know, she's so good.
(10:16):
Yeah, he's, he's like, I'm assigned to her, so I'm supposed
to be working on her. And at the same time, she wants
power. So, you know, she comes from a
family that seems to be in the, in the, the upper classes.
So I, I guess I'm kind of interested in that, but I'm more
interested in how he's going to cross paths with with Whitney.
Yeah, I liked how they set that up, you know, both in and around
(10:38):
the epilogue, having Whitney just like recall, you know, the
face of that guy and literally like, mark it her.
She even says like burns it intoher face because that guy is
going to be important, you know,sort of setting this up that
they're going to clash in the future.
And then bringing it back to Reza and all he's on the
airplane, right? And all he can think, he has
(11:00):
this beautiful model of a airline attendant who will
probably do whatever for him. But the only thing you can think
about is Whitney's face. And so, like, just that
juxtaposition of the two, that'sthe only thing they can think
about is each other. I think that probably sets up
the next book. And I, you know, got me
intrigued. I was bought in for the next
one. Oh great.
(11:20):
They are still dangling out the Watson chunk relationship
though. There were a few steps forward.
It was like, you know, 2 steps forward, one step back.
But we didn't really go anywhere.
It was like. All right.
I felt like they've perfectly set it up at the end of the
last. End of last book, right?
They almost kissed, I think theywere.
Bound to the London Eye, like, and now, all right, as summer
(11:43):
goes by and like, oh, we got to take a step back and then we got
to be super awkward about it. Let's go back to high school.
Thinking about each other on allthe.
Constantly. Constantly.
But they were apart this entire book, pretty much.
They were. Yeah, except for the NASCAR
opening. OK, opening.
I was saving up. For.
(12:04):
When do we talk about Sawyer Saw?
Saw, man. Yeah.
Although I'll be honest, as soonas we had the NASCAR scene and
we were with the family. You know it was coming.
I said it. I said to myself, actually, I
put in my notes, let me see whatI wrote down.
Literally reading chapter one ortwo, whatever it was of this
book, I wrote shit, please don'tkill.
Saw this book and I wrote that right at the NASCAR scene when
(12:28):
they're all riding high. Happy family.
I'm like. I mean, yeah, it's like the
what's the quintessential, you know, you present it just to
have it. Check off gun.
Yeah, exactly. You're not going to put that
NASCAR scene there without something.
I mean, although the counter argument there is they could
just be referencing what happened in the past, you know,
showing saw moving on. He decided to stick with the
(12:50):
team. Because that was a very big
scene at the last album. Big.
Part of the last two books. Yeah.
And so I thought it might just be cementing that, you know,
Saw's going to be this Family Guy and this team's guy that
Chunk and Whitney could maybe look at and go, huh, maybe we
can have that, too. I bet his death makes it even
harder for Chunk and Whitney to think because they were talking
(13:10):
kids at one point, which was crazy.
He was like, do you see yourselfas a mom?
He's like, oh, shit, did I just ask that?
And she's like, do you see yourself as a dad?
And they were both kind of playing coy about it.
I think Saw's death is going to make it even harder for them to
wrap their heads around. Is that life possible?
No, it's a, it's a super interesting dynamic.
I, I don't ultimately know what I, I mean, I guess I want them
(13:33):
to get together, but then it's like what happens after that,
you know? Yeah, I'm surprised they they're
touching it. Like I was wondering when we
first met Watts. You remember that scene when
she's in the I? Just thought that they were
going to completely avoid it. I thought they were just going
to be almost brother, sister, like, professional relationship,
(13:53):
utmost respect for each other. They're in the trenches together
and, you know, never even like pop into their mind.
And then in Book 2, it pops intoJohn's mind.
That one, three. Yeah.
Yeah, the bar scene. And he's questioning, Yeah, he's
he's he's making comments about her.
And he's like, I guess if you'refeeling it naturally, it's got
to come up. I was, I think Andrews and
Wilson had to make that choice. You're either never going to do
(14:16):
it or you're going to do it. And it's going to be a keystone
of the the series. You're all in or you're all out.
Yeah. So what's your, are you
supportive of it or? No, you'd rather not ship them?
You ship them, you ship them. I do too.
I want to say that. I want to say that.
I think even if just for the cutesiness of it all, you know,
(14:37):
like it's just, it's just meant to be.
Yeah. It's like a Disney.
It's a, it's like a Disney storyin the sandbox, you know, it's
like. But I'm going to be pissed off
if like the next book is just like this.
Same shit. Yeah.
It's like the Bear. Oh my God.
You watch the Bear, The cooking show about the restaurant.
Have you gotten to the new season?
(14:57):
Season 4. No I'm not, I have not watched
season 4 yet. It's the same freaking thing,
same conversations. You watch a 30-40 minute episode
and they literally have the exact same talk they've been
having however many times. So anyway, I hope it doesn't
become that because this season the bears pissing me off, not
(15:21):
doing anything new, so I don't want this series to become that
with chunk and heels. Yeah, we talked about the big
heavy hitters, though. There's a lot of other
incredible side characters, two of which stand out to me as
making our free space. When we get to the store
scorecard, I might want to save the talk for them.
But I, I, I'm wondering, I thinkyou're going to be on the same
(15:42):
page with who those 2 might be. Is one of them Israeli and one
of them has four legs? Oh damn, I guess there's 4 then.
All the Israelis were operating with and Thor definitely a
runners up, but now there's two others.
So Thor's not Israeli, he's an actual seal, and I think he's
being lined up to maybe replace Saw with the team.
(16:03):
Like like that's like Thor and his handler.
I forget his handler's name. I.
Forget the name. Yeah.
Yeah, they can use him on the team.
That would be good. I was surprised he made it in
that tunnel scene when? With the with the IED.
We sniffed out the IED. Jumping out of a plume of
explosive smoke, Yeah. Yeah, I was shocked at that.
I thought in those in the tunnels, a lot more was going to
go down, and then everyone kind of walked away unscathed.
(16:25):
Well, except for the terrorists.Yeah, when Watts blows up that
truck, that's pretty sweet. And she's the one who gives the
command. She is Mother is God, Mother is
God. It's a.
Great. What a great tribute she gave,
right? There all right, so let's
transition into the scorecard then, because since we're like
sort of dabbling into action suspense, I think where this
(16:47):
book excels is the action sequences.
It's, you know, the, the Halo insertion, it's the boat scene,
like juxtaposition, like the, you know, we're having both
teams come in on helicopters. They're trying to tackle both
(17:08):
boats. The.
Syrian choppers. That was pretty.
Great. And then couple that with, you
know, the extended mission. All right, well now we got to go
into these Gaza tunnels and and fight to the end like that was
amazing. Good stuff.
Yeah, I'm a little tired of the tunnel stuff only in the sense
(17:28):
of we have read so many books with shootouts at tunnels.
I feel like of our recent spat, Jack Carr kicked it off at the
end of was the most Red Sky morning, Red Sky morning.
That like underwater tunnel. And then Speaking of Andrews and
Wilson, their last dark rising novel in The Shepherd.
Tunnel. There was a tunnel.
There was a tunnel. Scene.
(17:51):
I think we had another one somewhere.
Did I feel like Breath or Scott's always finding little
puzzles? He's always.
Funny, Donald. No, there's one.
Oh, we read Steve Berry, the Templar.
Oh yeah, there was a tunnel. A lot of tunnel.
Legacy. That one was cool though at the
end with all like the historical.
(18:11):
Booby traps. Try to find the The Ark or
whatever it was they're looking for.
Yeah, I, I don't know. I was a little over the tunnel
shootout stuff because we've done that a million times.
But having the dog was awesome. Yeah, I, I thought that was
good. But I, I'm going to say for
action, suspense, what really bumps me up, couple of points.
There wasn't much action. It was edge of your seat
(18:32):
suspense. When the investigative team is
in the palace, when they're in the belly of the beast and Saud
is watching them in the palace. Guard works for Faisal and
they're they're pissing him off like Milliken from the FBI is
giving him the business. She's running the crime scene.
No nonsense. Sam is snapping pictures.
With that camera I want, I want Milliken and Sam Octavius to
(18:56):
come back. Sam was the dude IA. 100% agree.
Sam was one of. Jacked NSA nerd like that's
awesome. Using the camera to hack into
their systems like the digital camera has all the tech to do
that. You know, crazy NSA stuff.
He was one of my 2 candidates for free space.
(19:16):
So yeah, Sam was awesome. But the whole time they're in
there doing that investigation of the murder and they're
pushing all the right buttons. Then also with Theobald, the guy
from DIA who has that great relationship with Whitney ever
since they went back to Afghanistan, right?
And he saved her life there and that was that.
Like a hotel. I think 1.
(19:38):
I think that's 2. Is that 2?
It could be. It could.
Be one. They all blend together.
I know what they. They start blending together,
but he was such a great character, such a great support
here. I like his.
He's a badass team leader for this investigative team.
I I, I just like his Wall 50. Two, right?
Yeah, they say. But he also knows how to balance
like when Milliken was pushing too hard he realized they had to
(19:59):
do a little good cop bad cop give and take.
Like he was almost playing perfect diplomat, team leader
and just badass no nonsense. When he pulls the gun on the guy
in the in the morgue, I. Really love that team, I think
and and that team not only boosts up good guys, it boosts
up plot because that was when I felt like the plot really
clicked and it boosts for me action slash suspense because
(20:21):
that was more suspenseful I would say than the other action
scenes to me. Yeah, I was intrigued to see how
this is going to work out when Iwhen I saw what they were doing
that All right, because off the RIP, right, They pretty much
address it with the president saying that Whitney and Chuck
are going to be separated when he's going to lead up this
investigation. Team Chunk, you're going to wear
(20:42):
a sign in the Tier 1 Gold Squadron to, you know, sort of
be ready to act if anything popsoff, right?
Yeah. So which it does with the ships
when they get the Intel on the ships.
So from the very beginning, we knew that they were I, I figured
most likely they're not going tointeract with each other the
entire no. And I was like, all right, well,
it's going to be interesting to see how you do this.
(21:03):
And I would agree with you that the, the suspense, especially
leading up to the, you know, getting out of the palace, going
back, going, deciding to, you know, going to the embassy,
getting out of the embassy. Going up on the embassy roof to
or to hop the roof of SUV. Oh, wait, hop the wall.
The only way we can say, like, save the world is to go back to
(21:24):
the embassy where it's being overrun by, you know, these
protesters. And then you have set, like, the
team sweat up, obviously. So you have Sam on the airplane
and like you know the whole Argolike like scene at the end of.
That very Argo feel. Trying to, you know, get off.
They eventually get off the termX, but without these cars
chasing them like that, that wasjust, it was cool.
(21:44):
Dude and all of that stuff I felt like took place in the
second-half of the book. It feels like that three quarter
mark is really just everything is ramping up.
It was a little slow in the beginning to get there.
So that might be a Ding on plot slash buy in.
But once we got there, once we hit the pet scene in the palace,
the rioters, the embassy then goes to the ships with with the
(22:07):
saw scene go, then we go into the tunnels.
That's just when this book was clicking.
So action suspense wrapping all that up.
Where do you land? I.
Think it's 8.5. Yeah, I was going to say 8.
I'm going to say 8. My Ding is the the first half of
the book being a little slow to develop.
Yeah, I'm going to Ding that on plot for sure.
(22:29):
Yeah. True, true, true.
I just mean slow in terms of action suspense.
I cared about the plot moving along, but it wasn't
action-packed. So yeah, all right, plot then.
So my big like problem with thisis just the faisal's a kind of
an idiot. Kind of the point though.
(22:54):
Everything is banked on the factthat, oh shit, we have to tell
the the only one who can save the day is the king.
I don't know. I was just like, yeah, it was
cool with them. Like going back, like deciding
to do we're at the embassy, we're going to go or we're at
the airport. We're going to go back to the
embassy and then potentially back to the the palace.
(23:14):
All that was great. But I'm just like, this is what
you're you're you're staking like the the future of the
Middle East on this, the only way we can do it.
Yeah, I was. I was a little unbought.
Interesting. That's funny because I was going
to say that's where I make up ground because I was bought in.
Really. OK, interesting.
(23:34):
And even zoom out further the backdrop of the Saudis and the
Iranians. Talk me in, talk me in.
I'm always talking to you and you talk me in.
I'll talk to you in a little, but I'm I'm also going to back
up a little because the Saudis and the Iranians in bed together
is a plot so unbelievably fake and would never happen.
And like doesn't make any sense to get me to actually believe
that it could in this way, that there's a deep cover plot by
(23:59):
Iran that has been baked and embedded and using the family
dynamics against them. I just think the palace intrigue
was played perfectly by Iran with a deep cover asset.
And while I would never believe,you know, the whole Sunni Shia
split, all geopolitics, right, of the Saudis wanting to be the
major power broker Iran, basically their only leverage is
to fund proxy groups against theSaudis.
(24:20):
You know, on their border, they're involved in Syria,
they're involved in Yemen. You know that basically that's
that's the only card they have to play.
So the these are the two Titans of the Middle East.
And as long as they don't see eye to eye and don't get in bed
together, it's going to be a geopolitical hot, you know,
hotspot with alliances and Western powers coming in.
And the Chinese and the Russiansare going to want to deal with
(24:43):
them and get in bed with one versus the other, play them
against each other. So for them two to come
together, I never thought I would buy into that.
This got me to buy into it, which I think is is crazy, but
it's all due to the relationshipbetween Reza and Faisal.
So that worked. And then the palace intrigue of
it all. I absolutely loved how Faisal
(25:05):
has to kind of lie to the people.
Oh, after his phone call with the American president, he knew
he was in a tough position. He had to tell his people.
I got the president right where I want him.
You know, I have the upper hand here.
And the razor tells him, you really want the upper hand.
Release the information now to the world, start the riots, get
this thing going. And he does it.
I was kind of bought into all that happening.
(25:27):
I don't know why it worked for me and and I think on plot I
also go 8 out of 10. All right, all right, Yeah,
yeah, I don't know. I don't know why I'm like being
so hung up by that. I I think it is crazy though,
that to think, you know, that this idea of having and it it
sort of cements this idea that all right, this would be a super
(25:49):
scary thing if this were to actually come to virtually these
the two strongest powers who don't see eye to eye, but
actually coming togethers. Ally to unite Islam?
Yeah. Yeah, you're bringing me, you're
bringing me a back back down a little bit.
So I think I. Think there's many books that
could have written that as a major plot point and got me to
buy in and. Buy it this.
(26:11):
One did and and the thing with the king, when Whitney said she
had to do that, I was like oh shit, she's right.
It it's the only card they have left to play.
The only person who can trump Faisal is the King, and there's
no way to get to the king while Faisal controls the palace and
his people control the palace. So because of that, got to find
the loyalist. You got to sneak in under the
radar, find the loyalist. And Chris, I'm just going to
(26:32):
give my free space. It's the ambassador, The woman
ambassador. She is from the jump.
When we meet her, you know she'ssomebody you're going to trust
when her and Watts get to have that coded conversation in the
car because they know the driver.
Super. Suspenseful there too.
It's so suspenseful in the way they're kind that, you know,
they've got that vibe where they're they're they're picking
(26:53):
up on what each other's putting down.
I knew they were going to have to do some shit together.
And she's the one who orchestrates them to get snuck
into the palace and and get the king and and convince the king
to turn against his own son. And I, that plot point just
worked for me. So good.
It worked so good for me. Yeah, Princess Ramia is is a
(27:14):
very good character. She's the best, you know, kind
of, you know, her father, they didn't really even touch on
that. But her father was the one who
got, you know, slaughtered like and, you know, very interesting
to put her there as a character to be this like stand alone for
what, you know, the Crown Princewanted and everything that
(27:37):
Faisal and but maybe even his father is against.
But in the end that they come together, they agree that's
that's a good, that's a good free space.
When her head is on the choppingblock, but she does what's right
for her country anyway because she sees the path that it's
going down. Powerful stuff.
Yeah. And got me to buy into the plot
all the more that she wanted to take down Faisal and knew the
(27:59):
Americans were the way to do that.
And I will say that whole like sequence of them sneaking back
into the palace, like in the Range Rover pretty good in the
trunk, like, you know, getting to his room like all of a sudden
freaking what's Theobald is a MacGyver Dr. and he's able to.
Know some medicines to give him.And it makes sense.
(28:20):
He's like, oh, like I, I misreadthis stuff.
Like, so OK, I was bought in. But yeah, it was just, it was
fun, like. That honestly might be my
favorite part of the book. Everything from the
investigative team trying to getback to the embassy through the
riots, then sneaking them back in to wake the king.
That just, like, sequence of events was my favorite thing
(28:41):
about the book. Even Trump's.
All the action scenes, really. Yeah.
And Andrews and Wilson's wheelhouse, like you said
earlier, is the action, them riding the ship takedowns, them
riding the tunnel scenes. The the the jump with the with
the with the dog is freaking parachuting in.
Dude and then also where chunk goes vertical he goes upside
down on the parachute to throw the frag on the roof.
(29:03):
For a heck. See, all that stuff is great,
but I expected in a thriller yougot your tunnel scene, you got
your ship takedown. These are, you know, seals or
whatever. This is a tier one team.
Check in the box. I expect all that.
So when I'm reading it, I reallylike it.
But when you can craft a plot that's as crafty as what they're
doing inside the palace, that tome just goes next level.
(29:24):
All right, So what are you giving for buying?
You give 8.5 per plot. I gave a 7.5.
Yeah, I gave a flat 8 on plot. Flat 8 OK.
I'm going 4 out of five on buy in because it took a lot to get
to that point where I was invested.
But once I was, I was in. But the one point Ding is like
the first third little less thanthe first half where I was like,
(29:45):
come on, let's get there already.
Let's get this team on the ground.
Let's get in there. So 4 out of five.
I think you in talking to you, you brought me up.
I was a three and I'm going to go up to A4.
I'm more bought in now after talking to you about.
OK, all right, all right. It's not perfect.
I'll admit that it's no and is nowhere near as good as Kasim
(30:06):
Nadar and the drone stuff. Nowhere near as good as his
manipulation by was it? Who's his Pakistani friend?
Right exactly the wedding scene.Like nowhere near as good as all
that stuff. It's still a good, it's still a
good story to me. Still a good story.
All right, bad guys. Yeah, we would.
What do you think about Faisal, who ultimately like, you know,
(30:30):
doesn't it does, you know, obviously it gets killed.
Interesting character. But then also this, you know, we
we sort of touched on it at the very beginning, introducing this
rise of character. Who is he going to become, you
know, fuelled to be something bigger than he currently is,
Because I thought like he was going to act bigger.
But in the end, he kind of like he had he realized that he had
(30:53):
to defer like he, you know, there was times where he could
have bullied Faisal more. Sure.
Oh, he could have. He definitely like played those
spy card and, you know, trusted confidant very smoothly.
He's very, he's very slippery. I think he needs slippery.
That's a great word. I think if you push too hard, if
he was too direct, Faisal would have seen that as an affront or
(31:15):
a challenge or would have woken up to their relationship.
So I think that every time he was like, but of course, we
defer to your decision. You know your.
Highness, Your Highness. Yeah, your, your Highness, of
course you you can authorize this or not.
You know, I think he just was the ultimate weasel in that.
So Faisal as a villain is not really that big bad of a
(31:37):
villain, although he he tries tobe, he tries to wear those
pants. He's not, but Reza is.
And because of that, compared toKasim Nadar, I want to go like a
three out of five. But objectively they're a good
duo. And and once you throw Saud the
garden, I think we'll go 3 1/2. 3 1/2 All right, I'll meet you
(32:00):
there at 3 1/2 because I guess we would have to look back and
see what we gave Kasim Nagar in books one and two.
That'll be A5. It it it should be.
Remember fun time. Yeah, fun time.
You know what is A5 on this book?
It's good, guys. They're good guys, easy.
(32:20):
I mean to introduce 2 new characters to bring back
Theobald completely and these two new characters that I
personally want around again andI hope they figure out a way to
intertwine them into the group somehow.
You know, just like we have ye like you know yeah.
Is is there a place for Sam? And I'm liking on the FBI chicks
(32:42):
name but. Yeah, Milkin.
Milkin. Milkin.
Yeah. Like these interesting
characters. Like they well thought of well
developed. Not only them, but also some of
the Israelis or even sure and his handler like the other
operators that they're they're downrange with, you know, even
some of them to to come back andcameo or bring them in, you
know, replace you can't replace them, but replace saw or bring a
(33:03):
new guy on expand the team a little.
I think there's an opportunity. Agreed.
Yeah, I'm going. I'm going 5.
Five out of five on good guys. Yeah.
And you? Oh, I figured it out.
You had asked me, is there something missing about the
president and the transition of power?
Who would the vice president took over after an
assassination. I was racking my brain.
(33:26):
I'm like, I think it happened but I don't remember it.
In Sons of Valor, that transition happens in the Tier
One series with Dempsey. I knew we were missing
something. That's the president, the vice
president Jarvis in Dempsey, thesecond to last, second to latest
Tier one book and then he's fullpresident and Ember the most
(33:48):
recent tier one book. And, and I love how Team Ember
has mentioned a bunch of times, like the president's wife
overseas, she's a lady over. That member, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, that's Dempsey's team.
So I think a lot of the White House Situation Room stuff, we
see more in Tier one than we do Sons of Valor.
But since it's an intertwined universe, that's why we kind of
felt like some gaps were missing.
(34:09):
Because unfortunately, I, I, I haven't had the time to read
that series. I, I, it's something that I, I,
it's on my list. I want to.
Yeah, I've only read a few, but yeah, yeah.
But I love Sons of Valor so muchthat like, I, I don't care like
that. I didn't understand that, but I
definitely could feel it. You know, obviously being in
(34:29):
this world and reading novels that, you know, rely on 26 book
connections while also not trying to rely on 20, you could
just feel that something was missing there.
I think tier one has only like 10 though, I think.
I don't think it's that that bigyet.
But yeah, something was missing with the way Jarvis was
explained but not really explained and his wife was
involved but not really involvedin the Parkinson's.
(34:52):
It kind of if you just take thatit.
Never comes up again after the first like 3 novels, yeah.
It never comes up to you to takethat for what it is.
It could be a Ding on this book,but it just hints at a wider
universe. And if that wider universe were
left on a dress, that'd be a problem.
But it is addressed just in another series.
Yeah, good guys, Really, really special.
(35:14):
I would say best part of the book, I mean honestly, most fun
part of the book is is reading about all these people.
I love the setting. I think it was OK.
I think it was. OK, it was OK.
The palace I felt like. That was like the best part of
the setting, like to put us in the mind of the palace.
(35:36):
They didn't do a great job on like making me feel like I was
on the water like in the Med, you know?
The ship seemed kind of half baked like chunk stuff.
His missions almost just seemed as a side plot Side Story.
Yeah, it almost it it it at times it did felt like all
right, this is a Whitney Watts novel, and we need to have Chunk
in here doing something. Exactly right.
(35:57):
Doing something, yeah. And.
What's crazy about it is that Whitney doesn't even know what
he's doing until the very end. No.
Yeah, and and I mean, you do have to tie in this palace stuff
with the nuke stuff, so. Yes, they're interrelated in the
palace stuff than the nuke stuff.
Let's just be honest. Completely agree 100%.
(36:18):
Aside from like the fact that I love the action part better
there in, but every time they went, they went back to chunk.
I'm like no, no, no, let's, let's no be here.
I agree, 100% agree, and it almost sucks that like the trope
of there has to be a nuke on theloose, you know, like they're
right. They're going to blow a nuke in
Israel and start a false flag war.
(36:39):
It's like you need those stakes,You need that drama.
Yet even that world ending kind of scenario was not the drama I
cared most about. The drama I cared most about is,
is she going to make it safely to the embassy?
Is she going to get pulled through the window?
You know, is she going to find the king and present the video?
Is the king going to believe her?
That drama was so much more intriguing and and powerful to
(37:02):
me than a nuke going off in Israel, which is crazy to say.
And she didn't even know there was a nuke.
She didn't even know. Yeah.
Yeah. And then it's pretty cool how
she does come back in the end tofind the tunnel.
Sure. And use her analyst skills to
blow the van. Yeah, but they.
They. She had she had enough stakes
with her plot that it didn't need a nuke.
(37:24):
You know where it's like Chunks wasn't a nuke would have been
even less interesting. But it is tied up because that
is part of Rice's plan, like to push this attack to cement
Faisal's. Leadership you know a villain.
I was disappointed in the his like counter mate at the
MIOSMOMO history of. The intelligence inside Tehran,
(37:50):
Yeah, yeah. Mois.
But I did like his boss though. I like his boss but no like the
the guy that chunks after right?Ultimately, he was a coward like
you know. Because he just wanted to leave
the tunnel, let others do The Dirty work.
He's like, if this thing blows, I'm just going to get out of
here. Yeah, he was weak.
He brings villains down. And he's the reason that Whitney
(38:13):
even figured it out, because shesees a single guy, like come out
of the pop up, Yeah, in the middle of the night.
He probably could knock down villains half a point or so but
I'm just not going to do that but but probably could.
All right. We the setting, I think it's
like a mixed bag. It's sort of half and half.
(38:35):
Yeah. 2 1/2 Three. Go 3.
Just keep it right down the middle.
Keep. It right in the 30.
Not the best, though. Not the finest.
Even inside the palace, I liked more what the characters were
doing. It didn't necessarily have the
descriptive language. Yeah, it didn't really describe
(38:55):
it. I couldn't really feel it.
It wasn't really visual to me. What was visual as the
characters, their dialogue, their actions, their
conversations, the actual place and location was not visual at
all. So what do we say?
Three. Yeah.
Then tunnels. I'm just.
I'm just sick of tunnels. I honestly, I'm going to knock
(39:15):
it down to 2 1/2. Yeah, give Me 2 1/2 and a half.
I've been generous too in earlier categories.
So you know where we're not going to be generous.
I actually don't mind this cover.
You don't mind the cover? OK.
All right. So historically, guys, you can
go back and listen to our Sons of Valor 123.
(39:35):
We're not a big fan of this series cover wise.
Though I have made the argument,at least it has a consistent
voice and that voice does continue.
Here they use the template. It does.
It it has the same kind of feel.I just don't know about the
woman. I'm going to be honest with you.
Don't try to tell me. Maybe the face is watts and
heels, but the outfit, the uniform, I just, I'd never
(39:58):
pictured her in the book doing anything remotely like what
she's wearing. Running from the protesters like
hopping over the fat. She's not dressed like that
coming from the palace after theinvestigative meet.
Yeah. So I'll tell you.
I'll tell you what I'm going to give points to.
I'm going to give points to the helicopter, sure.
(40:20):
The PowerPoint have a helicopterscene.
Give points to the parachuting, sure.
The kid and up operator is something Andrews and Wilson
always do so. It's it's cool.
Have your day? Sure, no problem.
I'm guessing that while before we were starting I was trying to
pinpoint this set of buildings to see if they were real.
(40:42):
Not 100% sure if they are, but it looks to me like this tall.
The tallest building in this right under the R&E.
Big similarity to the Riyadh. What was the building?
It does at the. Kingdom Center, but it doesn't
you're you're right. You were saying that it evokes
like this city in the middle of a desert oil, you know, very
(41:06):
Arab. I'd say it has that.
Abu Dhabi, you know, like. Exactly.
Dubai, if it's not Riyadh or Tehran, you you really had an
opportunity to use one of those,so at least you get the feels of
it, even if it's not the actual city and it could be a city
we're just missing. That's entirely possible.
True. Very true.
(41:26):
Very true. What does that mean then on
cover but. I will say if it is another city
that we're missing, then I'm going to dock it because it
should be either like one of those, it should be Riyadh.
Yeah, it should be. Maybe Tel Aviv, because that's
where like the attack is going to go.
And I looked up Tel Aviv. It's not Tel Aviv.
It's not Tel Aviv. Yeah, that's interesting.
(41:46):
So you had a clear you could have picked either of these two
all. Right.
All right, all that being said, it's straight down the middle.
It's like a 2 1/2 three. Yeah, 2 1/2.
Give me a 2 1/2. I'm with you.
Free State space, though, to enda little positive, I'm going
with the ambassador. Her conversation with Watts, her
(42:07):
sacrifices later on, her really playing the game.
Low key diplomat who knows the power brokers, knows the
insurance and outs of the system.
She just gets it done. She's trustworthy, she's honest,
she's loyal, and in the end she saves not only her country, but
perhaps the entire Middle East and the world.
(42:27):
Really, I think it's all thanks to her.
This plot comes together. I can't see a way things work
out. As good as Watts is, as good as
Chunk is, I don't see this working out without someone like
her. So she played her role
perfectly. All right, well, it's it's tough
because we already like sort of sung their praises in in good
(42:49):
guys. But I was I was super intrigued
by this dog and Navy SEAL combo at at the very end.
And I think I want to know are they going to come back?
Like obviously there's an opening on the team.
It's going to be very hard to replace saw.
But sure, you know, I almost also wanted to give my free
(43:10):
space to Riker, like just to sure his emotional journey to
this book. And you know, it's so funny,
this guy who he literally runs head first into everything and
never gets shot and like, you know, always has a horseshoe up
his butt and and comes out unscathed.
But then to see when his buddy doesn't have that fortune and
(43:33):
him click because he's like the Joker, right?
He's the enormous of the Comic Relief.
And to see that switch, I felt like Anderson wasn't just very,
very much so caught the essence of that, you know, that
relationship between the two of them.
Remember saying that too, at theend of book three, I was like,
Saw had his story, the family stuff in book 2, him sticking
(43:55):
with the team in book three, I was like, we got to see some
evolution from Riker. I think it's time for him to
kind of take a step in who he isand and what he gives.
Like he gives his all for the team, but I mean what he gives
in terms of the story and the and the characters.
And I think we saw a change in him, him reacting to what
happens to Saw he go. He goes like primeval on
everybody. So he even makes his way into my
(44:18):
Limerick. That's how much I liked Riker.
There once was a mole named Rezafooling Prince Faisal.
What a beta as Saw pays the price.
Riker don't play nice. Whitney gets the king, The Data.
Oh. There you go.
All right. It's it's hard to rhyme with
some of those words, so you did a valiant effort there.
Mike, I gave it a shot. I gave.
(44:38):
It a shot. B minus can you start rating my
limericks? Just throw throw out a grade.
I'm going to give it a B plus. AB plus I'm very happy with
because I felt writing it like it was ACC minus.
So thank you. Appreciate it all.
Right. Well, that leaves us, me with a
(44:59):
39, you with a 38.5. Interesting.
Little lower than I thought it was going to be, but.
Yeah, same. I'm glad I praised a number of
things in the beginning, particularly the action, the
suspense, the plot, because thatreally was what had me gripped.
If you look at it as a complete story, I don't know if it did
all the things that I know Andrews and Wilson are capable
(45:19):
of, that we've seen and everything else they've written.
So I think we maybe we're a little harsh, but only because
we're grading it on a curve against what we know.
You know what masterpieces they've put out?
Exactly. Wow, we gave sons of LR47-I.
Don't know if you remember what I did with Sons of Valor 1 and
(45:40):
2. Gave it that perfect fifty.
Yeah, when you weren't there. That was not the real score.
So the real score when I was there was Sons of Valor had a 47
and a 48 and then Sons of Valor 2.
When we scored it, it had a 44 and a 45 and Sons of Valor 3.
(46:01):
What what did we? And it was the lowest but close
4342. So this is a little bit lower
than that one. I think it's just hard to top
that that trilogy, you know, andwe reserve the right maybe
elevating the score if if the next two books or next book, you
know, we'll see how Ryze's stories goes.
So. Yeah, at least I'm interested to
(46:23):
want more of him. You.
Know yeah, I'm intrigued. Same, same.
Before we get out of here, Mike,just like we talked about the
top, we need to thank our patrons, our deputy director,
Sherry F and Brad E, our specialagents, Adam, Mike, Ben, Darryl,
George, Matt, Dawn and Chris. Please subscribe, rate and
(46:46):
review to all three seasons of No Limits on the Apple Podcast.
You can find us.online@thrillerpod.com or on
Twitter and Instagram at Thriller Podcast.
And as always, just let's saw besaw.
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