May 21, 2025 • 52 mins
SHEPHEEEEEERDS. This one will haunt you.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:18):
Hey, guys, I'm Chris. And I'm Mike.
And welcome back to this week's No Limits, the other podcast.
How you doing today, Mike? I'm doing great.
I don't know how well I'm going to sleep though, after talking
about this book, but we'll find out.
How are you doing, Chris? I am.
I'm doing great. It's great to be back on the No
(00:39):
Limits Thriller podcast. We've been, we've been gone for
a little bit, haven't we? Well, yes, except for the
Knights Templar last. Oh, right.
Before that though, we were on aScott Harvath kick for a couple
of months. Yeah.
But now, now we're back fully focused, one feed going forward.
This Is Us and boom, back-to-back books.
(01:03):
Love, love the recommendation for you, for Steve Berry.
And you've been you've been singing this since when did this
book come out? 2020-2021.
Probably around there, yeah. I mean, there's four now in the
series. I didn't read the newest 1.
So we're we're going back to Dark Intercept by Andrews and
Wilson in order to move forward on to the new release, the 2025
(01:26):
release Dark Rising. Chris, do you think you want to
read the next two or three now after this?
Hands down I have to read the next two.
I can't just jump to especially like the ending.
Oh my God, we got we got to talkabout the ending of this book
leaves you. I haven't felt like this until
(01:48):
since I guess Andrews and Wilsonanother series with.
Sons of Valor. Sons of valor, they do like
that. Kind of cliffhanger Y it it is a
cliffhanger, but it's like a different kind of cliffhanger.
It's not like the Scott Harbath hit cliffhanger where like boom,
someone gets shot or but we've had the happen mobile multiple
(02:09):
times with with Riley or or withTracy or like the scene at the
end of spymaster. I'm spoiling all these books,
but you know, there's there's like different kinds of of
spoilers, you know, and you get these like think about Marvel
and credit scene. Right.
Yes, it feels like that. It wets your whistle just enough
(02:33):
to like, oh I can't wait till next summer, man.
Yeah, totally. And these ones that these guys
pull off is always relational. It involves some bombshell
information about the relationships between characters
that they did so much for you tobuy into.
And so let me tell you, Chris, Detective Perez comes back and
(02:54):
she comes back big. She has a role to play in the
Jedediah Johnson story. So if you like that ending, just
there's plenty more to come in the Dark series.
I mean, how could she not? I I, she kind of was minor
character in this, you know, like came on early, came on a
little late, but then boom, setting her up to be
(03:15):
quintessential like the villain going forward, you know, through
the through the the entirety of the series.
I would, if I had to guess, I would imagine it could go one of
two ways. Either he finds out that she's
working for Victor in the next one or like the entire book.
You don't, you don't know. So that's that's going to be
super interesting to find out. I don't know.
(03:36):
Like, are we still on the like? Don't tell me, don't tell me.
Like no, I'm not saying anything.
How long is is Victor? I'm intrigued like is Victor
still in play like going forwardis or is there like an even
bigger or are we talking about like James Bond spectre type
type stuff? Because he's the big bad, he's
the big bad and he's an incredible big bad.
And when you add the spiritual component, which is something
(03:59):
we're definitely going to have to talk about, but you add that
and now you have a villain who basically represents evil
Incarnate, like evil capital E devil.
You know, that is just wild to put into a thriller and he and
they do it. So Florida State, and they do it
so naturally. And so we'll get to the
spiritual stuff. But you're absolutely right.
Victor has a role to play. I'm not going to say much more,
(04:20):
but yeah, he's a big bad. And you know how we like when
the big bad is around for a 2-3 book arc and that only elevates
them. Yeah, but I'm already starting
to think like, is this, have youwatched what's that show on
Netflix? Stranger Things.
Stranger Things, you know how like you that I won't.
Well, you say what you're going to say, but yeah, I know I need
(04:42):
to see it. Where it's like, you know, you,
you're with a villain for the entire series, or even like
maybe let's say two seasons. And then you realize that you
know, there's someone else. Actually, you know, there's,
there's always a, you know, or it's Star Wars, right, You have.
I love. You like Snook and then you then
it's actually Palpatine and thenit's actually Palpatine
(05:02):
reincarnated. Like, you know, all this crazy
stuff. Somehow Palpatine survive.
I love that meme. Let's not.
Litigate that one on this podcast that would take over
everything but. No, but even Vader, like Luke, I
am your father. It's kind of like the reverse of
that. We knew he was bad, but now
we're learning he's intimately connected.
Well, we've already seen characters intimately connected,
(05:23):
and then it's revealed that somebody's bad.
You know, I kind of, I kind of like both of those devices.
So I, I guess my first question for you is, was she controlling
the cop the the cop who died or where they just work, all of
them were in cahoots with Victor.
And you could literally get intoa theological debate over this
of right, you're basically asking what's the nature of
(05:46):
evil? Is it 1 bad force corrupting
otherwise good parts of creationlike that, that crooked cop or
even Kenny, right In the flashback scene to when they
were kids, when they were teenagers, the guy hosting the
party, they thought they were friends is all of a sudden doing
this to Rachel with that demoniclooking in in his eyes.
I think they're pretty much establishing evil is the absence
(06:10):
of good, right? A very Christian, very Catholic
idea. Evil is the absence of good.
But through the fall man and individual men can allow that
evil to operate more openly through them, through their
devices and their choices and byturning away.
And so I, I kind of like how there's no answer to that
question, but we're getting the sense that they do come from,
(06:32):
obviously the, the authors are steeped in a Christian
background. And So what I think it is, is
that the spirits are entering into people like a, they're real
humans, but they're using them, they're manipulating them.
So I don't know if, like, Detective Perez is pulling
strings. I think it's Victor really.
I think it the be all end all iswith Victor.
(06:53):
So I think it's part of his master plan.
All these spirits are kind of like sent out and sent forth to
go find corrupted humans and corruptible bodies that they
enter and then do all these things.
So I think they're all pawns in Victoria on Victor's chess
board. That's how I would read it.
But yeah, these these evil spirits are going out and
finding the wickedness that exists in the world and
exploiting it, you know, turningit to their advantage.
(07:17):
Yeah, no, it's, it's super intriguing and you know, it's
almost like, like you said, these, these corruptible bodies,
the crooked cop who was Perez's,I don't know, his partner or
what whatever, they work together, right.
He was so wicked that when the, you know, when he gets healed,
(07:37):
like there's nothing left for him, he just dies, right?
Because, you know, like his, he was completely absorbed by this
dark being. But the opposite with the friend
who was attacking Rachel, like the demon leaves him and he's
there and he's just a weeping SOB and, and Rachel's even like,
did you kill him, Jed? And David's freaked out thinking
they murdered him. It's like you can't murder the
(07:58):
innocent guy because he was possessed by the spirit.
Yeah. No, no, no, I know it's very
it's very psychological. It gets you thinking about like,
you know what, what is the line between good and evil?
I I guess we should start to talk about, you know, the whole
(08:19):
faith-based idea of this book. You know, we can kind of bring
up the the scores and, you know,talking to begin to talk about
like what people have said aboutit.
I know that friend of the pod Daryl loves these books, but I
will say, you know, you have to be, I don't think this book is
for everyone, but I think if youlike through the novels and if
(08:44):
you're comfortable reading, you know, a faith-based book, then I
would recommend this to anybody.Like, I don't know, it's
freaking awesome. And also like just the
supernatural too, like, you know, not only combining like
this idea of God and, and, and the Holy Spirit and you know,
these warriors for God, but alsothis, you know, you know, you,
(09:08):
you could have you, this could be any story.
This could be, you know, aliens,you know, they just happen to
put their Christian spin on it. And you know, it's, it's, it's
cool. Yeah, I'm glad you were OK with
it because I was recommending the series so highly and I kind
of had a sense it'd be up our alley.
But I did want to unpack readinga faith-based thriller, yet one
(09:32):
that still captures, I would sayall the elements of a
traditional military thriller. Like just look at your
protagonist Jed, and even one ofthe one of my favorite
characters in the series, Ben Morvan, Like they're coming at
this from the traditional military op perspective.
And even the shepherds as a whole, as we unpack throughout
the book, who they are, this idea of teams and watchers and
(09:54):
keepers, this is really, as muchas it's supernatural and
faith-based and spirits and demons, it's actually grounded
in real operations. And these guys know best.
You know, Brian and Jeff, they both served, One was a surgeon,
served with SEAL teams, you know, in the field.
Another one was on submarines. That they have so many different
(10:15):
roles, military based, Navy roles, you can't help but notice
they're blending the faith and the the military operations so
seamlessly. You almost forget that this is a
faith-based or Christian book. It kind of melts away because
the operations are so seamless that there's Intel people,
there's the guy in your ear, they're, they're targeting, you
(10:37):
know, and, and they have these, these teams where Overwatch is,
is giving you live updates and they're directing the tactics.
Yet the guys on the ground, the warriors still have to make the
decisions based on reading the field.
You almost forget, even if you don't want to read any religion
in your books, you think someonerecommends this book?
You think they're crazy. No way, that's not for me.
(10:58):
I'll never read it. I think you have to give it a
chance. And and another thing they do is
they keep it pretty non denominational interfaith.
It's kind of like the shepherds we learned they're an
international interfaith group. You don't really hear much about
Jesus Christ, the resurrection, specific things in the Bible to
1 sect of Christianity. They're kind of just referring
(11:19):
to this overarching deity who islove, who spreads love, who can
work through all creation. You can channel that love
through your choice, your freedom, your willpower.
So I think it's really a book about freedom and human nature
and willpower. And if you want to strip it of
(11:39):
all of the religious stuff, I think you you kind of can, which
is weird to say where it would have been different if they like
LED into each of the characters has a personal relationship with
Jesus Christ. Instead they just say God, you
know, And I think that kind of opens it up.
It kind of widens the borders a little bit to, to be more
inviting. And I think the shepherd's being
(12:01):
this interfaith group, but it would be really cool if we go
out around the world. Hint, hint.
I I think there's a lot of opportunities because they kept
it so broad. Yeah, And you know, if you think
about other stories that are like this, I I think of, you
know, Harry Potter, I think of Star Wars, this bringing in a
whether it's this organization based grounded on something,
(12:24):
whether that be, you know, Wizards, whether that be Jedi,
whatever organization, you know,you, you want to bring the
person into. Then you have this person on the
outside and that they begin to get incorporated.
You know, it's, it's the dawn time and time again, you know,
the the hero's journey, Joseph Campbell, right.
So, yeah, I, I, I think they executed perfectly.
(12:46):
And the action, you know, they do the action in this so good.
It's it's like a Dempsey. It's like a sons of valor.
You know it it starts with the from right from the RIP with,
you know, that scene. Well, first of all, we're over
(13:07):
in in Iraq, like, you know, withlike these quote UN quote or
open in the Middle East. It's kind of like a flashback,
you know, type type thing, sort of set in the stage.
And then we immediately cut to the Barnes and Noble scene and
you're, I'm, I'm just like, I was confused, you know, in their
purposely like not giving you, you're just getting like a
(13:28):
little bits and nibbles at this story.
You're kind of going through it,how Jedediah is going through
it, right? You don't know you, you kind of
know, like, but you, you don't know until it gets told to you
until like the very end, right. When they, when they meet at the
church with the priest, they, they find he finds out that,
that I, I would love to see thatpicture.
(13:50):
I don't know if it's on the cover or not, but of the dove,
but with the eagle's wings. The one that would have.
Been a yeah that would have beena cool a cover but.
Nashville is portrayed so well that's just one of the many
churches and sites around the city.
Yeah, we get Nashville on the cover.
Yeah, I'm not that I'm not from Nashville, never been right.
(14:11):
But Can you imagine if you you're from Nashville, you know
the city intimately well, like this book is just as good as
let's say Brad Thore book takingyou to Switzerland or or Norway
or wherever. He's able to do that here with
with Nashville, which is so cool.
I we rarely go to like these southern places.
(14:31):
I guess, you know, we've gone toTexas.
I I think in was it storm risingwith?
Chris Howdy. Yeah.
With Chris Howdy. But it's always DC or New York.
You might get a Chicago or a Boston here and there.
And we went to LA like once, Yeah, but.
The thrillers should go to. These smaller, you know, not
(14:54):
small, but like even just, you know, denoting, you know, like
freaking Pigeon Forge. Like I, I've been down there in
Gatlinburg and like that's a, that's a crazy place.
And you know, going through these hills and getting the
description of the American South.
It's very interesting. I think Jack Reacher, Lee Child
does it very good because, you know, his books kind of travel
(15:14):
all throughout the entire UnitedStates.
And he, he does a really good job of really immersing you in
each city area. But yeah, like, most of our
thrillers we've been reading arefocused.
It's either Europe, Middle East or we're hanging out in DC.
You know, rarely have we gone tooutside the Washington DMV area.
(15:35):
Yeah. No, you're right, You're right.
I think that's another thing that makes it unique is just the
setting. So it's really unique in the
supernatural stuff. It's also unique in the setting.
It's just a lot of barriers these guys are breaking while
still operating within the bounds of what people want to
read as a thriller, like the plotting, the pacing, and you
said the action sequences. Exactly what anybody could want
(15:57):
in a thriller. That scene when Father Macklin
and who we learn is Corbin, the girl who has hideout in the
stall are meeting and they're supposed to meet up with Rachel
and Sarah Beth and family. And we're getting they're kind
of like quizzing each other on like biblical things.
Yet you're right. We don't know it.
And Jed has to go through. It's almost like a police
(16:19):
procedural. He's playing investigator in the
beginning because he has no info.
Like we have no info. And so I, I think the first like
3rd of this book, it's a little slow on action after that
opening, but I think that's a good thing.
It gives us time to meet Rachel David, learn who Sarah Beth is
and it lets another storyline cook which is Sarah Beth and
(16:44):
fake grandma might be my favorite parts of the book when
she's in captivity and fake grandma's coming in and we're in
Sarah Beth, a 12 year old girl'shead who has these special
gifts. We realize she can read
thoughts, particularly with her mother.
You know, if she if they since they have such a close
(17:05):
relationship, even trying to like transmit where she is,
she's like, I don't know why I'mdoing this, but I'm going to say
every little detail. I realize there's a tower out
the window. The sun rises this way, the
fields are described this way. And she's almost I mean, I don't
know if you've looked into this remote viewing stuff.
(17:26):
She's almost. Like telling me about this?
Yeah. Holy cow, she's like reverse
remote viewing where she's like projecting where she is, knowing
that she has this connection with her mom.
Oh my God. And then when fake grandma is
coming in and being so creepy and ultimately when she screams
birds, that part of the book, that whole escape from the house
(17:49):
storyline might be my favorite, most haunting thing.
And it, and since I read this book what, 4-4 years ago now, I
think, and then coming back to it, that was what I was looking
forward to the most. I, I wanted that moment so
badly. And even years later, on my
second or third reread it, it hit.
It hit just as hard. Yeah, I think that can allow us
(18:10):
to talk about the narrator here.We obviously both did the audio
book. I think this McCloud Cloud
Andrews Cloud Andrews one of these related to the prey
Andrews I. Think so.
Multi. No I don't think so either.
Multiple Audi awards I looked up, including one for Dark Dark
(18:33):
Fall. Was that last year's?
I forget it. But anyways, and for me the
creepiest scenes were when he transitions to Victor's voice.
Yeah, yeah, he's so good at it. We get a confrontation of, of
Victor and Jedediah in the housewhen he tries to control him,
(18:54):
tries to make him kill himself when he's in his in.
And then that also reminded me of Stranger things because in
that it's also about like, you know, telepathy and, and being
mind controlled by, by these, you know, netherworld regions
and, and talking to each other. It's, it's so intense.
(19:19):
And like, that was creepy. That was so creepy.
When he makes him raise that gunto his chin.
When he's in the woods outside the house, staring at the
silhouette in the window, holy moly, that is one of the most
haunting scenes I've ever read because it's like it's all
personal. Wait, right?
We know what Jed's going throughwith the grief that he carries
with never becoming a pastor, with falling away from religion,
(19:41):
which becoming this military manin all of his faults.
And he's like, I, I, I don't want to do this.
Like it's easy for someone to just go, oh, he's a washed up
seal. He's seen some stuff.
He, he blew his brains out in the middle of the woods, you
know, But no, like there's depthto this character and it's
because evil is trying to creep its way into his head and
(20:02):
control him. And so that, that scene, I think
is phenomenal. And and that's the sequence
where they escape and run into Ben Morvan at the end of the
woods when they're getting out, dude, like you said.
To do the the narration for Victor, the fake grandma, that's
the little girl Sarah Beth. But then you have to
(20:24):
differentiate Sarah Beth from Corbin because those are also.
Those are very well done when her and Corbin are meeting and
are like. Talking to each other.
They're experimenting with theirpowers, dude.
Whether it's the remote viewing or like you're saying something
from Stranger Things, just this idea of consciousness has been
on my mind so much. Maybe because Joe Rogan, Sean
(20:46):
Ryan, all these other podcasts Ilisten to have have really had
some people on. But dude, there is crazy stuff
out there and some of it is coming from really seemingly
reliable people. If it's all a disinformation or
misinformation campaign, they kind of got me.
I, I, I really want to know moreabout just what is
(21:07):
consciousness, what is beyond. And so have you also heard of
the Telepathy Tapes, this podcast?
There's this lady who does a podcast, the Telepathy tapes.
I haven't listened to it. It got criticized a lot for
various things. Apparently there's a movie
coming out, but she basically spoke to so many different
(21:30):
people in the non verbal autistic kind of category.
And and there were so many parents who had similar stories
of what their children were ableto do or these almost miraculous
things their children would do who are non verbal and basically
non commutative. And something that came out is
that first they, they predict a lot of things and they're able
(21:55):
to tell their parents things that that are true or come true.
But there's no way the family would have, would ever, should
have ever known that. But another one, when Sarah Beth
and Corbin are going into this kind of spirit world and, and
their this connection that they have in this otherly place, they
call it the hill, the telepathy tapes uncovered all these
children. They have this place they call
(22:17):
the hill. And regardless of space and
distance and time, they're all apparently able to commune and
kind of hang out. And, and apparently on this
podcast, she interviewed some teacher who said one of the best
parts of a couple of the kids days is when they're just quiet
and they do quiet meditation time.
And she's like, usually these are kids who just can't stop,
(22:39):
whether it's noise, body motions, ticks, tremors and
stem, you know, stemming and things.
And she goes, we do this kind ofmeditation thing and they all
just stop. And they're so quiet and they're
communicating with each other inthe Hill.
They go to this place called theHill.
They see all their friends and other people they know and they
can like commune with them. And apparently even on like
(23:00):
forums like Reddit and things, there's a bunch of people
talking about how, hey, I saw you at the Hill last night and
like they actually know things about each other's lives even
though they're non verbal kids living across the world.
And I'm just like, consciousnessmight be crazier than we think.
Well, it's just proof that it this is the matrix and we're all
we're all plugged in and you know, we're just being uploaded
(23:24):
and we can we, we can cracks in the matrix.
I just don't know. I'm just, I'm just not closing
my mind to any possibility of ofsomething like this.
This is no limits the conspiracytheorists corner.
Back to the conspiracy corner. But that's the problem.
How many people does it take to have these experiences that you
just keep writing them off before, hey, maybe there's some
(23:46):
kernel of truth under? Yes.
True that people are tapping into.
Dude, the remote viewing stuff'swild.
Look at this guy, Joe Mcmoneagle.
It's just unbelievable. Mcmoneagle All right, write that
down. The story Listen to the Sean
Ryan podcast with Joe Mcmoneagle.
Anyway. All right, back, back to the
(24:06):
story. Let's let's go build the
scorecard. Sure, sure.
Let's do it, dude. Act in suspense.
I'm I'm going to go dad Like I, I can't, I can't go anything
lower than dad, dude. Give me the time, Give me the
time. Because not only does it get all
the action really well, this is super suspenseful.
(24:29):
I think just like having that spirit, you know, supernatural
this, you know, otherworldly beings, you know, having you
know, these various cliffhangersthroughout the story.
It just propels you. And you said that I would agree
the 1st 3rd of this novel is a little bit slow.
(24:50):
You know, I had to pick some Nets, but then it you needed
that. And at the beginning I'm
skeptical, right? I'm like, alright, why does he
have to be a Navy SEAL? What is he doing?
Like being this, you know, private eyes friend, you know,
like, but I get it in the end. It has to be because he has to
become a shepherd. And so in order for him to
become a shepherd, he has to have that background.
(25:12):
That more than puts it all together.
Yeah, exactly. So I'm going 10.
Yeah, I'm with you. And we didn't even talk about
the real second-half action, which is an OP.
You know, when the bombs, they think the bombs are planted in
the church during that kind of interfaith gathering concert
thing. But really it's a trap to blow
them up in the parking lot and and get the shepherds.
(25:34):
That's exciting. And then they got to peel out
and and Jed's got a rush to the house because that whole final
action sequence where they're trying to take Sarah Beth again
at the house, it's almost non-stop once you once you hit
the scene in the woods where they're getting they're getting
her out of the captivity. Oh.
Yeah, the IT just non-stop continually goes.
(25:55):
Yeah, it's non-stop after that. And the work was done to get you
bought into the characters. And I, I think then it kind of
refreshes when Ben, Ben Morvant shows up, and it's almost like,
you know nothing Jon Snow, like you know nothing Jedediah, about
what's going on here. Like everything we thought we
knew with him starting to put the pieces together.
This priest was killed in the car crash.
(26:16):
The girl was taken. We're getting some weird
visions, and I'm getting these weird intuitive feelings.
Even when he's investigating that Lady, like Mary, she was
like the landlord at Father Macklin's place.
He, like, knows her name. It just pops into his head.
He's like, oh, Mary, you know, Iwas looking for you.
So many of these things are happening, yet he has no idea
why he's fighting it. He still hasn't unpacked what
(26:38):
happened decades earlier, you know, with Rachel and and David,
the campfire scene. And it all comes to a head, I
think when Ben Moore of that is like, I'm going to be honest
with you and tell you who we are, what the shepherds are.
And I love that. So yeah, I think the action, the
suspense of the 10, and because of everything I just said, the
plot, it's laid out really well.I think it flows.
(27:00):
I think the timing is great. Once you get over that hump in
the beginning, it's just you can't put it down for the last
2/3 of this book. So I think I'm plot.
I go on 9. Yeah, I'm I'm right there with
you. I think there's a maybe a couple
things we would, we would dig it, but could elevate it to that
(27:21):
10. I was a little confused at
again, I guess in the beginning like my whole confusion was.
Who is he? Why is he here?
Right, like, but I guess that was the whole purpose of it.
So maybe I'm just, you know, getting bogged down by that, but
(27:44):
I think I don't know, they, theydo a good, great job laying
everything out, getting you hooked, you know, and then once
we hit the ground running, it's great.
And you know, like, like I said,this is also like a James Bond
novel. Like it's, it's like a, you
know, a Tom Clancy, you know, Jack Ryan type novel.
(28:05):
It it just feels all these genres that were blended
together. It's great.
Yeah, it's that's really impressive stuff.
I think to pull that off is unreal.
So because of buy in on all that, you know what, I'm going
to go 5, which is crazy because you think this is the most
unrealistic book. You tell somebody the plot of
(28:25):
this book. It's like, I don't do that, that
that's not up my alley. I'll never understand all that.
But once you read it, you're bought into the relationships.
I love how things are being revealed.
I'm giving 5 on buying for the the revealing of information.
We don't know everything about the car crash, Father Macklin
and Corbin and the bathroom stall.
We don't know everything about Sarah Beth's powers and her
(28:48):
connection with her mother and the the voices she's hearing.
We don't know everything about Jed's back story.
You know, that had to be unveiled almost halfway through
the book. I think you know the the rape
scene with Rachel, what they went through.
We got hints at it when he was meeting David and he's like, I'm
not going to say Rachel's name and all this, but that wasn't
revealed to us till later and then revealed about who the
shepherds are. We don't even know what the
(29:08):
shepherds are until 5060% into this book.
Who the watchers are, Corbin andSarah Beth meeting and finally
Corbin teaching her what all these supernatural powers are
that's not revealed until late in the book and how to harness
them. I love how everything is plotted
out just to like you said, wet your whistle, keep you wanting.
(29:29):
And every time one of those things is revealed, it's like
let's go. I want to see that in action.
I want to see how they use that on an op and then that even pays
off. So I think it's a 5 on buy in
all. Right.
Yeah, I, I see where you're coming from.
(29:51):
I was, I was confused to why David and they had such a do
they have a strained relationship?
Because after that rape scene, like he just checked out and he
was he was done with it. Like what?
I was just confused as to what led him them to like have it
falling out. Yeah.
Jed, Rachel. And David, I think it was
(30:14):
teenage trauma and. And you're not wanting to admit
like, you know, what he saw thatnight.
And yeah, I think ultimately maybe like turning, turning
towards, all right, I'm going togo into the military.
He turns down his faith. Yeah, once one become a pastor
didn't. And then now he looks back and
says, oh, not only did you stealmy high school sweetheart, but
you also became a pastor or something that I wanted to do.
(30:36):
Yeah, completely. Yeah, No, completely I'm.
Just talking it out like I get that now.
All of that comes together too with Rachel's line of it wasn't
just that you left, it's you took your light with you like
she was almost even though she was the one who was attacked,
she was willing to come face to face to with it.
She was willing to confront the evil of that night, but Jed was
(31:00):
just going to reject it. He was going to say, I'm not
crazy. This couldn't happen.
This was something wild. We're never going to talk about
this again. He cut himself off where she, I
think, is in tune with that world.
And she realized someone like Jed could overcome that
darkness, could help them through that evil.
Yet he ghosted them. He left them.
They were the three amigos. They were the best.
(31:20):
They were best friends. They were as tight as can be.
They were dating. And he left.
He checked out because he didn'twant to confront that evil.
He didn't want to own it. He didn't want to recognize it.
And I think that line that she says is that I'm not just mad
that you left. I'm mad that you took your light
with you, light that we all shared, we all deserved, and we
all need to fight off these demons.
(31:43):
I think that line meant a lot for me.
Yeah, yeah, I get that. I.
It kind of made me think of likewhen I'm frustrated at school or
work and the kids like, you know, this and that, it's just
going to be like, if they all have a light, you know, it's
like same with everybody. Like we all have a light.
And don't cut yourself off from the light that others can show
even some are dimmer, some are brighter, some fluctuate, some
(32:06):
go in and out it it's like we all have that light.
And I think Rachel's line to sayyou took your light away from
us. It's really, really hits.
Yeah, All right. I'm bought in, but I'm not a I'm
not. A few times.
I'm not as bought in as you, so I'm a go for.
I'm a go for. Fair, that's fair.
I I think if you read it again, I wonder.
(32:27):
That might be my only points. Take it away for the rest of the
score. It's kind of amazing.
Bad guys What? Else do you dock?
They're perfect. Yeah, the creepy grandma 5, all
the crazy ass operators that arebeing controlled by Victor, and
then at the very end you throw in this Perez twist that she's
on the inside. Oh my good God.
(32:49):
Reading it the second time, the hints are there the entire time.
You know from the minute the hints are there the entire time.
That she's bad. Yep, it's wild.
Yet you'd never see it. You'd never see it.
Even in the epilogue when she's picking up the phone, she's
getting released from the hospital.
They like give her a bag of belongings and she's like, I
(33:09):
don't care about all that crap. I just want these shoes.
And like she was hyper focused on like, I just want these
designer brand shoes. It's like she's representing
like materialism, you know? And it's just like little things
like that. They're just insanely telling of
her worldview and and why she's on the dark side.
And I'm just like, they're so subtle with it that when they
(33:32):
hit you over the head, it's almost like you knew it was
coming, even though it's so shocking, it's, it's just
perfectly done. Yeah, I guess the, the thing
that sort of pricked my, you know, put up my antennas the
most was when her partner dies or I keep calling her partner,
but it's not the, the the cop who was working in the same
(33:54):
division as her died. Fought him in the in the the
field of the parking lot. Yeah, yeah.
Oh, no. The one who arrested him.
The one who arrested. Him right who had she has no
sympathy for no sympathy, no like it is very strange.
Jed even says like, isn't he your partner?
Yeah, exactly. And.
She has no qualms about it, yeah.
She comes with like some like quick response to like, oh, I've
(34:17):
seen a lot you. Know, I've seen a lot.
It's just trauma. It's part of the job.
Yeah. And he's like, I've seen guys
die too. But like, it's not.
I don't just brush it off, ignore it, you know, You reckon
with it eventually. A little hints are there, man.
A. Little hints are there.
Yeah, for sure. And then good guys like
Jedediah, awesome main character.
(34:40):
And then we bring in the the secondary characters.
Love all the Shepherds, love theWatchers, love Corbin, you know,
and now David's going to have tobe his.
What is it called? His keeper.
Hey, His keeper, Yeah. So that and I love how all those
dynamics of their history and their relationship have to come
(35:03):
to a head. Sarah Beth is going to be one of
the watchers. David is going to be his mentor,
his spiritual mentor, his spiritual director.
So and all of that has to click.And here's the thing with Jed is
he pushed off so much from his life and ignored it and wanted
to just let it be in the past. But the one thing he knows is an
(35:23):
operation, you have to be all in.
You can't have things bothering you.
You can't have little greedy or petulant little annoyances, you
know, crop up between people. If that's the guy giving you
Intel on a mission, you got to trust it.
You know, if that's the little 12 year old girl who's telling
you she sees somebody around thecorner who's suspicious, you got
to trust them. And I think, I think Ben
(35:45):
explaining this to him with his operations background makes him
say he gives up. He gives up, you know, any
reservations he had and says, I'm all in.
And I do like that moment when he there's a it's a long chapter
where he's kind of mulling over if he's going to say yes to the
shepherds. And it's almost like, you know,
the Fiat. It's almost like the I'm the
handmaid of the Lord kind of thing.
And he has to kind of accept that and it's really cool to
(36:08):
watch him go through that. So good guys are who's your
favorite of all those? Let's take Jed out of the
equation. Who's your favorite?
That's. Tough for some reason I really
liked what was the name of the pastor who comes in she's.
(36:31):
Pastor D. Pastor DI really like Pastor D.
She's great, She's great. I imagine she's going to be, you
know, like a, a mainstay throughthe series.
I think she like overseas the keepers.
Oh, but I'm, I'm blanking on thethe leader of the Shepherds.
What's what's his name again? Ben Morvent.
(36:51):
Yeah, Ben, Ben. I love Ben, I love Ben, I love
Ben so much. You know, like Obi Wan Kenobi.
Yes, yes. You know, like Siri is black,
you know. Oh, you're so right.
All your all your favorite like leaders in in these these
stories. He's so Obi Wan, you're so
(37:13):
right. Yeah, he's Obi Wan like.
That's a great pull. That's a really good pull.
Yeah. I resonate with him.
I love it so much. If I got to give another one,
though, I say Corbin. I think Corbin's just a well
developed character wise beyond her years still being just a
teenager, you know, But in the Saint George's Academy, the
(37:35):
school and the training, it's like they're.
This also reminds me of, like X-Men, like, very much like
X-Men and Ben. Ben is like Professor X, Yeah,
you know, bringing it. I mean, imagine that Wolverine
is Jedediah, you know? Oh, yeah.
It has this like school of of misfit kids, you know, that have
this special ability. 100 percent, 100%.
(37:58):
Oh, wait till we get more St. George's.
Yeah. Oh, dude, there.
Oh, there's a, there's some great scenes coming up.
Yeah. I forget if it's second or third
book, but oh, there's some fun stuff coming.
That's all. That's all I'm going to say.
I'm going to say there it. It ends up channelling some
Harry Potter vibes with the student body at Saint George's.
Yeah. It's good stuff, dude.
(38:20):
It's good stuff. Nice.
You know, you know another good thing about this book, I think
this is our podcast episode withthe least amount of swear words.
It feels like we can't, I can't curse, you know, because of what
we read. I think it just happened like
subconsciously, but I think it'sbecause of how how positive this
(38:43):
book is and you got to be a goodChristian while you're on the
pod now. Yeah, very true, very true.
What do you think of the setting?
Oh man, yeah, it's really great.I think I would go 5 if I knew
Nashville. If I was from Nashville, whether
I've seen some of these churchesor he goes on a long walk, I
(39:04):
think he has a few hours to kill.
At one point he goes to a pub and goes for a walk, and then
there's that parking lot scene, I think is where he has that
battle with the first, the first.
Inning that he passes by. There's a complete replica of
the Barthenon in Nashville for some reason.
And he goes by it. Yeah, I think if I knew those
sites, I can go a little higher.The woods where Sarah Beth is
(39:25):
being held. I think they're all really,
really good. But I'm going to go for.
OK, I, I think I want to go a little higher, like 4 1/2.
And one of the main reasons is not that I've been in Nashville
or, or I have been to Tennessee,but I, we didn't go to
Nashville. My sister lived in Knoxville.
But you know, and I felt like the audio book narrator did this
(39:51):
well of like when they're describing the places it,
whether it's in the woods of thehouse or like when you're in
Victor's mind, they did a good job of like just making you.
Making me feel like I was there,like I was in this dark place,
(40:12):
you know, like just early on describing when she's locked up
with the grandma, it some of the, you know, descriptions of,
of where she is and, you know, the people and, and everything.
Just it gives you that like sortof dark darkness and, you know,
and then moving to the light more in like Nashville, like,
you know, outside brightly. You know, he's he's outside a
(40:34):
lot. I don't know.
I just, I really like that. And I felt that not often do
Dwight like feel that or, or remember that in in some of our
novels. So I'm going to go 4 1/2.
You're going to go 4, so. Yeah, I think that's fair.
I think. Yeah, makes a lot of sense.
The details were phenomenal. Squeaky floorboard outside the
door. She's thinking about that if she
(40:57):
has to escape. And then Jed steps on it.
Like all these little details. Yeah, silhouette in the window.
Victor, you're really transported there for sure.
Well, I guess it's time for the covers.
So I I'm going to give points tothe I looked it up because I
wanted to see the Nashville skyline and.
(41:17):
That is it. That is it.
So that's the AT&T building thatwas originally Bellsouth the the
AT&T headquarters. You know, we have a couple of
other buildings. So obviously, you know, heavily
getting the the Nashville vibes.Exactly.
For some reason, I don't get thesense that that's Jedediah, this
(41:38):
dark running man figure. He looks a little too skinny.
I mean, Jedediah is very tall, like 6-4, right?
But I get the sense that he's huge, you know?
And this to me just looks more like a Mitch rap style type
operator. It does or like a Tom Cruise in
(42:01):
Mission Impossible type operator.
I I like the the confetti kind of gives this idea of or you
know, whether it's debris, you know, we have those bombs that
go off in the courtyard, kind ofdrawn to that scene.
It's good. It's not great.
I. Kind of agree that the only
(42:22):
thing I'm going to say is that the silhouette does keep up as a
theme. It's never the running man
silhouette. It's never been my favorite
play. Mitch rap did a lot.
We made our jokes about that back in the day.
Brett Thorne never really had that, which was kind of nice.
Yeah, I I don't. It doesn't remind me of Jed I I
(42:45):
do think the colours are evocative of something related
to this eerie spirit world. The.
Blues Green, I see that, I see that.
Points for Nashville, of course,but.
When it looks like he's wearing a trench coat.
When is when is he ever wearing a trench coat?
A trench coat. When does he ever have his
weapon drawn? When does he ever?
Run a lot like. Well, sure, but I mean going
(43:05):
walking through the city. Right.
It's like when they're going to the church OP or, or he's going
into the house. I I do like the lines through
the text. I think that gives it a little
bit of that sense of these signals.
Yeah, I don't know, the lines through the text just remind me
something about some signals being sent or it intercepted or
(43:27):
or murky. I like, but yeah.
I like the birds like, you know,the birds going.
It's like the sense of this, some force that's there that
like disturbed the birds, you know?
The birds are even those lights,the the orbs, the orbs of light
I think do that too. So all that stuff I think is
helping. It helps.
Dude, you want to talk about a bad silhouette?
(43:47):
Just look at Dark Rising, the new book.
Granted I haven't read it so maybe if you judge the book by
the cover it's different, but. We have a female.
There's a woman. Yeah.
(44:08):
So standing man, standing lady. We get more definition of their
face. It's almost like a graphic
novel. That's what I'm saying.
But then again, it also just looks like, you know, buy me a
cover.com kind of characters. Granted, I don't know the story,
so it could be a real name storyscene.
Yeah. And then look at Dark Fall and
Dark Angel. It's funny that they also do the
(44:29):
silhouette, but totally different.
It's almost like books one and four, They're covers echo and
reflect each other. And then books two and three,
their book goes their, their covers reflect each other so.
Dark Fall looks more like an operator like like Sons of Valor
style. Exactly, and Dark Angel isn't
(44:51):
that really cool having Saint Peter's Dome back there.
Yeah, 'cause that that more so evokes the the operator Ness
dark and fully kidded out makes him seem like he's this I guess
he is kind of like because he's an ex Navy SEAL shadow figure.
He's the shadow figure for some reason.
I'm just not honestly, I think if you got rid of the figure, I
(45:15):
would be more on board with thatnovel.
That's why I think I I kind of like cover C better.
It's the same, you know, Nashville's skyline, the sunset.
You kind of have this like lookslike a kind of a storm coming
in. You have those glowing orbs.
Cover B is just, you know. The German cover?
Who knows? Typical German.
(45:37):
You know Rambo, We got freaking Rambo here.
Ein Shepherd series novel. Yeah, ein Shepherd.
I, I, I don't think we put much stock in to be the German one.
I've never seen it. I don't think it's actually
printed to be honest, anywhere outside the Germany.
So it's like that one probably doesn't even count cover.
See, I never even saw before researching for the POD.
(45:57):
I don't know if that's a paperback release or an ebook,
but I I definitely think cover Cis the best one.
I like getting rid of the silhouette.
Of the three. Yeah, it more of the Nashville
skyline like you were describingbefore you really get to see it
here. And still the orbs like you
said, maybe the birds would be cool, but definitely those orbs
of light are still there. So covers are OK.
(46:20):
I don't think I go lower than a three though.
I think I'm right about there. I think I'm.
Going to go 3/3 and 1/2. I could go 3 1/2, but I'll keep
me at the three. 3. Not my favorite, yeah.
Who's your free space dude? I hadn't thought about that one.
We said Corbin. I said Corbin before.
(46:41):
I might just have to stick with that.
I think the scene where Corbin and Sarah Beth are exploring the
spirit world, that's it. I'm going to go.
I'm going to go to the priest from the opening scene where
where we like first get, I guessI'm more so picking that entire
(47:03):
scene as like my face, you know,really getting you hooked in and
like you're confused or intrigued.
And then it culminates with likethis crazy ass, you know,
murder, accident, you know, typething where he, you know,
sacrifices his life to try to one, save Corbin and two,
potentially try to save, tries to prevent him from being
(47:25):
kidnapped. I feel like that just begins
this hook, line, sinker of of bringing you into that plot.
So to me, like that, that scene stands out.
So I'm I'm going to go with the priest from from the opening
scene. I forget his name, but Father
Macklin. Father Macklin.
Yeah, there you go. And representative of Saint
George. I will say I forgot my free
(47:46):
space should have been fake grandma or let's say McLeod
Andrews for pulling off that fake the Shepherd screen.
I could listen that over and over.
The Shepherd's scream, that's unbelievable.
Her entire voice in Persona. He does such a good job of
differentiating that from all the other female characters and
giving you this creepy ass vibe.Oh, there you go, I cursed.
(48:08):
So I must add a few in there at some point.
Nah, dude, when he does that shepherd scream that sat with me
that that one sat with everything about the fake
grandma scenes really. But that scream shepherd, I was
like, what? What is that?
Like what is that? Loved it.
I loved every minute of this audiobook.
(48:31):
True, true. All right, Well, pretty good
scores, but the first book. Pretty good scores what I take
of 123446 A 46. I'm a 40, I'm a 45 1/2, so we're
right there. We have not been more than 1/2
or one point off on a book in a long while.
We're kind of having a mind meldon what we like.
(48:51):
Yeah, I I wonder if that's a consequence of us talking out
our scores on the pod as opposedto us pre scoring before we we
come in. But who cares?
It's it's our pod. We can do what we want.
So. I'm really interested though,
because just like Steve Berry, Iwanted my recommendation to to
really hit with you, and I thinkit did.
And you want to read more, you want to keep going in the
(49:13):
series. I want to read go ahead speak
Berry. I want to read more of this.
I want to go ahead. I hope you know the second book
syndrome doesn't hit them with the next one.
So I'm. Not going to say much.
All right. All this is this one's my
favorite. The next one.
No dark intercepts my. Favorite dark intercepts?
Your favorite? OK.
But but then again, everyone on the pod knows I'm an
(49:34):
originalist. I like the originals, I like
first books. I like when I get hooked.
It kind of I kind of have this nostalgia for them.
Take it for what it is I want. I want you to have an open mind.
But this one is I think it's so good.
I think great stuff happens in the next two and I haven't even
read the fourth one. So we'll see what Dark Rising
has in store all. Right.
(49:56):
So what, what are we going to donext?
Are we going to continue on the series, pop around?
We have some new releases we need to cover what's on the pod.
I'm honestly not sure. So I think we got to just talk
offline and and set our second-half of 2025 schedule
because it's already June just crazy.
So I think we got to set our second-half schedule and and
nail that down. Maybe we could talk about that
(50:18):
tonight. Sounds good.
We'll, we'll put something out on the socials so that that way
you guys know what what we're going to be covering in the next
couple of weeks here. Yeah, Oh.
No, we've had a bunch of books like Move and we're not going to
get Cry Havoc anymore until October now, right so.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of dates moving
around, so we got to look at that.
(50:38):
We're going to cover all the newreleases of all our typical
thrillers we've done here. We're only going to be on the
Thriller podcast, so don't worryabout not hearing from us for a
while. We will be back here on this
feed. Mitch Rapp, Scott, Harvest
Seasons 1 and 2 are done and in the books.
Make sure you subscribe and listen to those.
But Chris, we can't let you go till I read you my Limerick.
(50:59):
Oh, give it to me. This book is not for deep
sleepers. It gives you the jeepers and
creepers overcoming grief through faith and belief.
Thank God for shepherds, watchers and keepers.
That's a good one, Mike. Yeah.
That's a good one. You're.
Saving it up, I think you, you wore yourself out and then they
(51:19):
need to come back to little rest, come back with it with the
eater. Now that we're on the thriller
pod, every book from here on forward will have a Limerick.
All right, I'm going to hold youto that.
Hold you to that. Sure.
Even if we need to chat JP Tate at the last second.
Well, and we have the follow up to Fade like we already have
that book in hand. We need to.
I need to physically read it and.
(51:39):
It in July, so I think that comes out June or July.
I think July. So Yep.
All right, more to come from theNo Limits Thriller podcast.
All right, well, we can't leave without thanking our patrons,
our deputy director, Sherry F, our special operator, Jason C,
(52:01):
our special agents of Ben, Darrell, Kevin, George, Matt,
Don, Peggy, Chris and Mark. Subscribe, rate and review to No
limits on Apple or Spotify wherever you choose.
You can find us at The Other pod.com or on Twitter and
Instagram at The Other Podcast and go check out our YouTube
page where you can watch full videos of this podcast.
(52:22):
And as always, just let Jedediahbe Jedediah.
Hey, guys, I'm Chris. And I'm Mike.
And welcome back to this week's No Limits, the other podcast.
How you doing today, Mike? I'm doing great.
I don't know how well I'm going to sleep though, after talking
about this book, but we'll find out.
How are you doing, Chris? I am.
I'm doing great. It's great to be back on the No
(00:39):
Limits Thriller podcast. We've been, we've been gone for
a little bit, haven't we? Well, yes, except for the
Knights Templar last. Oh, right.
Before that though, we were on aScott Harvath kick for a couple
of months. Yeah.
But now, now we're back fully focused, one feed going forward.
This Is Us and boom, back-to-back books.
(01:03):
Love, love the recommendation for you, for Steve Berry.
And you've been you've been singing this since when did this
book come out? 2020-2021.
Probably around there, yeah. I mean, there's four now in the
series. I didn't read the newest 1.
So we're we're going back to Dark Intercept by Andrews and
Wilson in order to move forward on to the new release, the 2025
(01:26):
release Dark Rising. Chris, do you think you want to
read the next two or three now after this?
Hands down I have to read the next two.
I can't just jump to especially like the ending.
Oh my God, we got we got to talkabout the ending of this book
leaves you. I haven't felt like this until
(01:48):
since I guess Andrews and Wilsonanother series with.
Sons of Valor. Sons of valor, they do like
that. Kind of cliffhanger Y it it is a
cliffhanger, but it's like a different kind of cliffhanger.
It's not like the Scott Harbath hit cliffhanger where like boom,
someone gets shot or but we've had the happen mobile multiple
(02:09):
times with with Riley or or withTracy or like the scene at the
end of spymaster. I'm spoiling all these books,
but you know, there's there's like different kinds of of
spoilers, you know, and you get these like think about Marvel
and credit scene. Right.
Yes, it feels like that. It wets your whistle just enough
(02:33):
to like, oh I can't wait till next summer, man.
Yeah, totally. And these ones that these guys
pull off is always relational. It involves some bombshell
information about the relationships between characters
that they did so much for you tobuy into.
And so let me tell you, Chris, Detective Perez comes back and
(02:54):
she comes back big. She has a role to play in the
Jedediah Johnson story. So if you like that ending, just
there's plenty more to come in the Dark series.
I mean, how could she not? I I, she kind of was minor
character in this, you know, like came on early, came on a
little late, but then boom, setting her up to be
(03:15):
quintessential like the villain going forward, you know, through
the through the the entirety of the series.
I would, if I had to guess, I would imagine it could go one of
two ways. Either he finds out that she's
working for Victor in the next one or like the entire book.
You don't, you don't know. So that's that's going to be
super interesting to find out. I don't know.
(03:36):
Like, are we still on the like? Don't tell me, don't tell me.
Like no, I'm not saying anything.
How long is is Victor? I'm intrigued like is Victor
still in play like going forwardis or is there like an even
bigger or are we talking about like James Bond spectre type
type stuff? Because he's the big bad, he's
the big bad and he's an incredible big bad.
And when you add the spiritual component, which is something
(03:59):
we're definitely going to have to talk about, but you add that
and now you have a villain who basically represents evil
Incarnate, like evil capital E devil.
You know, that is just wild to put into a thriller and he and
they do it. So Florida State, and they do it
so naturally. And so we'll get to the
spiritual stuff. But you're absolutely right.
Victor has a role to play. I'm not going to say much more,
(04:20):
but yeah, he's a big bad. And you know how we like when
the big bad is around for a 2-3 book arc and that only elevates
them. Yeah, but I'm already starting
to think like, is this, have youwatched what's that show on
Netflix? Stranger Things.
Stranger Things, you know how like you that I won't.
Well, you say what you're going to say, but yeah, I know I need
(04:42):
to see it. Where it's like, you know, you,
you're with a villain for the entire series, or even like
maybe let's say two seasons. And then you realize that you
know, there's someone else. Actually, you know, there's,
there's always a, you know, or it's Star Wars, right, You have.
I love. You like Snook and then you then
it's actually Palpatine and thenit's actually Palpatine
(05:02):
reincarnated. Like, you know, all this crazy
stuff. Somehow Palpatine survive.
I love that meme. Let's not.
Litigate that one on this podcast that would take over
everything but. No, but even Vader, like Luke, I
am your father. It's kind of like the reverse of
that. We knew he was bad, but now
we're learning he's intimately connected.
Well, we've already seen characters intimately connected,
(05:23):
and then it's revealed that somebody's bad.
You know, I kind of, I kind of like both of those devices.
So I, I guess my first question for you is, was she controlling
the cop the the cop who died or where they just work, all of
them were in cahoots with Victor.
And you could literally get intoa theological debate over this
of right, you're basically asking what's the nature of
(05:46):
evil? Is it 1 bad force corrupting
otherwise good parts of creationlike that, that crooked cop or
even Kenny, right In the flashback scene to when they
were kids, when they were teenagers, the guy hosting the
party, they thought they were friends is all of a sudden doing
this to Rachel with that demoniclooking in in his eyes.
I think they're pretty much establishing evil is the absence
(06:10):
of good, right? A very Christian, very Catholic
idea. Evil is the absence of good.
But through the fall man and individual men can allow that
evil to operate more openly through them, through their
devices and their choices and byturning away.
And so I, I kind of like how there's no answer to that
question, but we're getting the sense that they do come from,
(06:32):
obviously the, the authors are steeped in a Christian
background. And So what I think it is, is
that the spirits are entering into people like a, they're real
humans, but they're using them, they're manipulating them.
So I don't know if, like, Detective Perez is pulling
strings. I think it's Victor really.
I think it the be all end all iswith Victor.
(06:53):
So I think it's part of his master plan.
All these spirits are kind of like sent out and sent forth to
go find corrupted humans and corruptible bodies that they
enter and then do all these things.
So I think they're all pawns in Victoria on Victor's chess
board. That's how I would read it.
But yeah, these these evil spirits are going out and
finding the wickedness that exists in the world and
exploiting it, you know, turningit to their advantage.
(07:17):
Yeah, no, it's, it's super intriguing and you know, it's
almost like, like you said, these, these corruptible bodies,
the crooked cop who was Perez's,I don't know, his partner or
what whatever, they work together, right.
He was so wicked that when the, you know, when he gets healed,
(07:37):
like there's nothing left for him, he just dies, right?
Because, you know, like his, he was completely absorbed by this
dark being. But the opposite with the friend
who was attacking Rachel, like the demon leaves him and he's
there and he's just a weeping SOB and, and Rachel's even like,
did you kill him, Jed? And David's freaked out thinking
they murdered him. It's like you can't murder the
(07:58):
innocent guy because he was possessed by the spirit.
Yeah. No, no, no, I know it's very
it's very psychological. It gets you thinking about like,
you know what, what is the line between good and evil?
I I guess we should start to talk about, you know, the whole
(08:19):
faith-based idea of this book. You know, we can kind of bring
up the the scores and, you know,talking to begin to talk about
like what people have said aboutit.
I know that friend of the pod Daryl loves these books, but I
will say, you know, you have to be, I don't think this book is
for everyone, but I think if youlike through the novels and if
(08:44):
you're comfortable reading, you know, a faith-based book, then I
would recommend this to anybody.Like, I don't know, it's
freaking awesome. And also like just the
supernatural too, like, you know, not only combining like
this idea of God and, and, and the Holy Spirit and you know,
these warriors for God, but alsothis, you know, you know, you,
(09:08):
you could have you, this could be any story.
This could be, you know, aliens,you know, they just happen to
put their Christian spin on it. And you know, it's, it's, it's
cool. Yeah, I'm glad you were OK with
it because I was recommending the series so highly and I kind
of had a sense it'd be up our alley.
But I did want to unpack readinga faith-based thriller, yet one
(09:32):
that still captures, I would sayall the elements of a
traditional military thriller. Like just look at your
protagonist Jed, and even one ofthe one of my favorite
characters in the series, Ben Morvan, Like they're coming at
this from the traditional military op perspective.
And even the shepherds as a whole, as we unpack throughout
the book, who they are, this idea of teams and watchers and
(09:54):
keepers, this is really, as muchas it's supernatural and
faith-based and spirits and demons, it's actually grounded
in real operations. And these guys know best.
You know, Brian and Jeff, they both served, One was a surgeon,
served with SEAL teams, you know, in the field.
Another one was on submarines. That they have so many different
(10:15):
roles, military based, Navy roles, you can't help but notice
they're blending the faith and the the military operations so
seamlessly. You almost forget that this is a
faith-based or Christian book. It kind of melts away because
the operations are so seamless that there's Intel people,
there's the guy in your ear, they're, they're targeting, you
(10:37):
know, and, and they have these, these teams where Overwatch is,
is giving you live updates and they're directing the tactics.
Yet the guys on the ground, the warriors still have to make the
decisions based on reading the field.
You almost forget, even if you don't want to read any religion
in your books, you think someonerecommends this book?
You think they're crazy. No way, that's not for me.
(10:58):
I'll never read it. I think you have to give it a
chance. And and another thing they do is
they keep it pretty non denominational interfaith.
It's kind of like the shepherds we learned they're an
international interfaith group. You don't really hear much about
Jesus Christ, the resurrection, specific things in the Bible to
1 sect of Christianity. They're kind of just referring
(11:19):
to this overarching deity who islove, who spreads love, who can
work through all creation. You can channel that love
through your choice, your freedom, your willpower.
So I think it's really a book about freedom and human nature
and willpower. And if you want to strip it of
(11:39):
all of the religious stuff, I think you you kind of can, which
is weird to say where it would have been different if they like
LED into each of the characters has a personal relationship with
Jesus Christ. Instead they just say God, you
know, And I think that kind of opens it up.
It kind of widens the borders a little bit to, to be more
inviting. And I think the shepherd's being
(12:01):
this interfaith group, but it would be really cool if we go
out around the world. Hint, hint.
I I think there's a lot of opportunities because they kept
it so broad. Yeah, And you know, if you think
about other stories that are like this, I I think of, you
know, Harry Potter, I think of Star Wars, this bringing in a
whether it's this organization based grounded on something,
(12:24):
whether that be, you know, Wizards, whether that be Jedi,
whatever organization, you know,you, you want to bring the
person into. Then you have this person on the
outside and that they begin to get incorporated.
You know, it's, it's the dawn time and time again, you know,
the the hero's journey, Joseph Campbell, right.
So, yeah, I, I, I think they executed perfectly.
(12:46):
And the action, you know, they do the action in this so good.
It's it's like a Dempsey. It's like a sons of valor.
You know it it starts with the from right from the RIP with,
you know, that scene. Well, first of all, we're over
(13:07):
in in Iraq, like, you know, withlike these quote UN quote or
open in the Middle East. It's kind of like a flashback,
you know, type type thing, sort of set in the stage.
And then we immediately cut to the Barnes and Noble scene and
you're, I'm, I'm just like, I was confused, you know, in their
purposely like not giving you, you're just getting like a
(13:28):
little bits and nibbles at this story.
You're kind of going through it,how Jedediah is going through
it, right? You don't know you, you kind of
know, like, but you, you don't know until it gets told to you
until like the very end, right. When they, when they meet at the
church with the priest, they, they find he finds out that,
that I, I would love to see thatpicture.
(13:50):
I don't know if it's on the cover or not, but of the dove,
but with the eagle's wings. The one that would have.
Been a yeah that would have beena cool a cover but.
Nashville is portrayed so well that's just one of the many
churches and sites around the city.
Yeah, we get Nashville on the cover.
Yeah, I'm not that I'm not from Nashville, never been right.
(14:11):
But Can you imagine if you you're from Nashville, you know
the city intimately well, like this book is just as good as
let's say Brad Thore book takingyou to Switzerland or or Norway
or wherever. He's able to do that here with
with Nashville, which is so cool.
I we rarely go to like these southern places.
(14:31):
I guess, you know, we've gone toTexas.
I I think in was it storm risingwith?
Chris Howdy. Yeah.
With Chris Howdy. But it's always DC or New York.
You might get a Chicago or a Boston here and there.
And we went to LA like once, Yeah, but.
The thrillers should go to. These smaller, you know, not
(14:54):
small, but like even just, you know, denoting, you know, like
freaking Pigeon Forge. Like I, I've been down there in
Gatlinburg and like that's a, that's a crazy place.
And you know, going through these hills and getting the
description of the American South.
It's very interesting. I think Jack Reacher, Lee Child
does it very good because, you know, his books kind of travel
(15:14):
all throughout the entire UnitedStates.
And he, he does a really good job of really immersing you in
each city area. But yeah, like, most of our
thrillers we've been reading arefocused.
It's either Europe, Middle East or we're hanging out in DC.
You know, rarely have we gone tooutside the Washington DMV area.
(15:35):
Yeah. No, you're right, You're right.
I think that's another thing that makes it unique is just the
setting. So it's really unique in the
supernatural stuff. It's also unique in the setting.
It's just a lot of barriers these guys are breaking while
still operating within the bounds of what people want to
read as a thriller, like the plotting, the pacing, and you
said the action sequences. Exactly what anybody could want
(15:57):
in a thriller. That scene when Father Macklin
and who we learn is Corbin, the girl who has hideout in the
stall are meeting and they're supposed to meet up with Rachel
and Sarah Beth and family. And we're getting they're kind
of like quizzing each other on like biblical things.
Yet you're right. We don't know it.
And Jed has to go through. It's almost like a police
(16:19):
procedural. He's playing investigator in the
beginning because he has no info.
Like we have no info. And so I, I think the first like
3rd of this book, it's a little slow on action after that
opening, but I think that's a good thing.
It gives us time to meet Rachel David, learn who Sarah Beth is
and it lets another storyline cook which is Sarah Beth and
(16:44):
fake grandma might be my favorite parts of the book when
she's in captivity and fake grandma's coming in and we're in
Sarah Beth, a 12 year old girl'shead who has these special
gifts. We realize she can read
thoughts, particularly with her mother.
You know, if she if they since they have such a close
(17:05):
relationship, even trying to like transmit where she is,
she's like, I don't know why I'mdoing this, but I'm going to say
every little detail. I realize there's a tower out
the window. The sun rises this way, the
fields are described this way. And she's almost I mean, I don't
know if you've looked into this remote viewing stuff.
(17:26):
She's almost. Like telling me about this?
Yeah. Holy cow, she's like reverse
remote viewing where she's like projecting where she is, knowing
that she has this connection with her mom.
Oh my God. And then when fake grandma is
coming in and being so creepy and ultimately when she screams
birds, that part of the book, that whole escape from the house
(17:49):
storyline might be my favorite, most haunting thing.
And it, and since I read this book what, 4-4 years ago now, I
think, and then coming back to it, that was what I was looking
forward to the most. I, I wanted that moment so
badly. And even years later, on my
second or third reread it, it hit.
It hit just as hard. Yeah, I think that can allow us
(18:10):
to talk about the narrator here.We obviously both did the audio
book. I think this McCloud Cloud
Andrews Cloud Andrews one of these related to the prey
Andrews I. Think so.
Multi. No I don't think so either.
Multiple Audi awards I looked up, including one for Dark Dark
(18:33):
Fall. Was that last year's?
I forget it. But anyways, and for me the
creepiest scenes were when he transitions to Victor's voice.
Yeah, yeah, he's so good at it. We get a confrontation of, of
Victor and Jedediah in the housewhen he tries to control him,
(18:54):
tries to make him kill himself when he's in his in.
And then that also reminded me of Stranger things because in
that it's also about like, you know, telepathy and, and being
mind controlled by, by these, you know, netherworld regions
and, and talking to each other. It's, it's so intense.
(19:19):
And like, that was creepy. That was so creepy.
When he makes him raise that gunto his chin.
When he's in the woods outside the house, staring at the
silhouette in the window, holy moly, that is one of the most
haunting scenes I've ever read because it's like it's all
personal. Wait, right?
We know what Jed's going throughwith the grief that he carries
with never becoming a pastor, with falling away from religion,
(19:41):
which becoming this military manin all of his faults.
And he's like, I, I, I don't want to do this.
Like it's easy for someone to just go, oh, he's a washed up
seal. He's seen some stuff.
He, he blew his brains out in the middle of the woods, you
know, But no, like there's depthto this character and it's
because evil is trying to creep its way into his head and
(20:02):
control him. And so that, that scene, I think
is phenomenal. And and that's the sequence
where they escape and run into Ben Morvan at the end of the
woods when they're getting out, dude, like you said.
To do the the narration for Victor, the fake grandma, that's
the little girl Sarah Beth. But then you have to
(20:24):
differentiate Sarah Beth from Corbin because those are also.
Those are very well done when her and Corbin are meeting and
are like. Talking to each other.
They're experimenting with theirpowers, dude.
Whether it's the remote viewing or like you're saying something
from Stranger Things, just this idea of consciousness has been
on my mind so much. Maybe because Joe Rogan, Sean
(20:46):
Ryan, all these other podcasts Ilisten to have have really had
some people on. But dude, there is crazy stuff
out there and some of it is coming from really seemingly
reliable people. If it's all a disinformation or
misinformation campaign, they kind of got me.
I, I, I really want to know moreabout just what is
(21:07):
consciousness, what is beyond. And so have you also heard of
the Telepathy Tapes, this podcast?
There's this lady who does a podcast, the Telepathy tapes.
I haven't listened to it. It got criticized a lot for
various things. Apparently there's a movie
coming out, but she basically spoke to so many different
(21:30):
people in the non verbal autistic kind of category.
And and there were so many parents who had similar stories
of what their children were ableto do or these almost miraculous
things their children would do who are non verbal and basically
non commutative. And something that came out is
that first they, they predict a lot of things and they're able
(21:55):
to tell their parents things that that are true or come true.
But there's no way the family would have, would ever, should
have ever known that. But another one, when Sarah Beth
and Corbin are going into this kind of spirit world and, and
their this connection that they have in this otherly place, they
call it the hill, the telepathy tapes uncovered all these
children. They have this place they call
(22:17):
the hill. And regardless of space and
distance and time, they're all apparently able to commune and
kind of hang out. And, and apparently on this
podcast, she interviewed some teacher who said one of the best
parts of a couple of the kids days is when they're just quiet
and they do quiet meditation time.
And she's like, usually these are kids who just can't stop,
(22:39):
whether it's noise, body motions, ticks, tremors and
stem, you know, stemming and things.
And she goes, we do this kind ofmeditation thing and they all
just stop. And they're so quiet and they're
communicating with each other inthe Hill.
They go to this place called theHill.
They see all their friends and other people they know and they
can like commune with them. And apparently even on like
(23:00):
forums like Reddit and things, there's a bunch of people
talking about how, hey, I saw you at the Hill last night and
like they actually know things about each other's lives even
though they're non verbal kids living across the world.
And I'm just like, consciousnessmight be crazier than we think.
Well, it's just proof that it this is the matrix and we're all
we're all plugged in and you know, we're just being uploaded
(23:24):
and we can we, we can cracks in the matrix.
I just don't know. I'm just, I'm just not closing
my mind to any possibility of ofsomething like this.
This is no limits the conspiracytheorists corner.
Back to the conspiracy corner. But that's the problem.
How many people does it take to have these experiences that you
just keep writing them off before, hey, maybe there's some
(23:46):
kernel of truth under? Yes.
True that people are tapping into.
Dude, the remote viewing stuff'swild.
Look at this guy, Joe Mcmoneagle.
It's just unbelievable. Mcmoneagle All right, write that
down. The story Listen to the Sean
Ryan podcast with Joe Mcmoneagle.
Anyway. All right, back, back to the
(24:06):
story. Let's let's go build the
scorecard. Sure, sure.
Let's do it, dude. Act in suspense.
I'm I'm going to go dad Like I, I can't, I can't go anything
lower than dad, dude. Give me the time, Give me the
time. Because not only does it get all
the action really well, this is super suspenseful.
(24:29):
I think just like having that spirit, you know, supernatural
this, you know, otherworldly beings, you know, having you
know, these various cliffhangersthroughout the story.
It just propels you. And you said that I would agree
the 1st 3rd of this novel is a little bit slow.
(24:50):
You know, I had to pick some Nets, but then it you needed
that. And at the beginning I'm
skeptical, right? I'm like, alright, why does he
have to be a Navy SEAL? What is he doing?
Like being this, you know, private eyes friend, you know,
like, but I get it in the end. It has to be because he has to
become a shepherd. And so in order for him to
become a shepherd, he has to have that background.
(25:12):
That more than puts it all together.
Yeah, exactly. So I'm going 10.
Yeah, I'm with you. And we didn't even talk about
the real second-half action, which is an OP.
You know, when the bombs, they think the bombs are planted in
the church during that kind of interfaith gathering concert
thing. But really it's a trap to blow
them up in the parking lot and and get the shepherds.
(25:34):
That's exciting. And then they got to peel out
and and Jed's got a rush to the house because that whole final
action sequence where they're trying to take Sarah Beth again
at the house, it's almost non-stop once you once you hit
the scene in the woods where they're getting they're getting
her out of the captivity. Oh.
Yeah, the IT just non-stop continually goes.
(25:55):
Yeah, it's non-stop after that. And the work was done to get you
bought into the characters. And I, I think then it kind of
refreshes when Ben, Ben Morvant shows up, and it's almost like,
you know nothing Jon Snow, like you know nothing Jedediah, about
what's going on here. Like everything we thought we
knew with him starting to put the pieces together.
This priest was killed in the car crash.
(26:16):
The girl was taken. We're getting some weird
visions, and I'm getting these weird intuitive feelings.
Even when he's investigating that Lady, like Mary, she was
like the landlord at Father Macklin's place.
He, like, knows her name. It just pops into his head.
He's like, oh, Mary, you know, Iwas looking for you.
So many of these things are happening, yet he has no idea
why he's fighting it. He still hasn't unpacked what
(26:38):
happened decades earlier, you know, with Rachel and and David,
the campfire scene. And it all comes to a head, I
think when Ben Moore of that is like, I'm going to be honest
with you and tell you who we are, what the shepherds are.
And I love that. So yeah, I think the action, the
suspense of the 10, and because of everything I just said, the
plot, it's laid out really well.I think it flows.
(27:00):
I think the timing is great. Once you get over that hump in
the beginning, it's just you can't put it down for the last
2/3 of this book. So I think I'm plot.
I go on 9. Yeah, I'm I'm right there with
you. I think there's a maybe a couple
things we would, we would dig it, but could elevate it to that
(27:21):
10. I was a little confused at
again, I guess in the beginning like my whole confusion was.
Who is he? Why is he here?
Right, like, but I guess that was the whole purpose of it.
So maybe I'm just, you know, getting bogged down by that, but
(27:44):
I think I don't know, they, theydo a good, great job laying
everything out, getting you hooked, you know, and then once
we hit the ground running, it's great.
And you know, like, like I said,this is also like a James Bond
novel. Like it's, it's like a, you
know, a Tom Clancy, you know, Jack Ryan type novel.
(28:05):
It it just feels all these genres that were blended
together. It's great.
Yeah, it's that's really impressive stuff.
I think to pull that off is unreal.
So because of buy in on all that, you know what, I'm going
to go 5, which is crazy because you think this is the most
unrealistic book. You tell somebody the plot of
(28:25):
this book. It's like, I don't do that, that
that's not up my alley. I'll never understand all that.
But once you read it, you're bought into the relationships.
I love how things are being revealed.
I'm giving 5 on buying for the the revealing of information.
We don't know everything about the car crash, Father Macklin
and Corbin and the bathroom stall.
We don't know everything about Sarah Beth's powers and her
(28:48):
connection with her mother and the the voices she's hearing.
We don't know everything about Jed's back story.
You know, that had to be unveiled almost halfway through
the book. I think you know the the rape
scene with Rachel, what they went through.
We got hints at it when he was meeting David and he's like, I'm
not going to say Rachel's name and all this, but that wasn't
revealed to us till later and then revealed about who the
shepherds are. We don't even know what the
(29:08):
shepherds are until 5060% into this book.
Who the watchers are, Corbin andSarah Beth meeting and finally
Corbin teaching her what all these supernatural powers are
that's not revealed until late in the book and how to harness
them. I love how everything is plotted
out just to like you said, wet your whistle, keep you wanting.
(29:29):
And every time one of those things is revealed, it's like
let's go. I want to see that in action.
I want to see how they use that on an op and then that even pays
off. So I think it's a 5 on buy in
all. Right.
Yeah, I, I see where you're coming from.
(29:51):
I was, I was confused to why David and they had such a do
they have a strained relationship?
Because after that rape scene, like he just checked out and he
was he was done with it. Like what?
I was just confused as to what led him them to like have it
falling out. Yeah.
Jed, Rachel. And David, I think it was
(30:14):
teenage trauma and. And you're not wanting to admit
like, you know, what he saw thatnight.
And yeah, I think ultimately maybe like turning, turning
towards, all right, I'm going togo into the military.
He turns down his faith. Yeah, once one become a pastor
didn't. And then now he looks back and
says, oh, not only did you stealmy high school sweetheart, but
you also became a pastor or something that I wanted to do.
(30:36):
Yeah, completely. Yeah, No, completely I'm.
Just talking it out like I get that now.
All of that comes together too with Rachel's line of it wasn't
just that you left, it's you took your light with you like
she was almost even though she was the one who was attacked,
she was willing to come face to face to with it.
She was willing to confront the evil of that night, but Jed was
(31:00):
just going to reject it. He was going to say, I'm not
crazy. This couldn't happen.
This was something wild. We're never going to talk about
this again. He cut himself off where she, I
think, is in tune with that world.
And she realized someone like Jed could overcome that
darkness, could help them through that evil.
Yet he ghosted them. He left them.
They were the three amigos. They were the best.
(31:20):
They were best friends. They were as tight as can be.
They were dating. And he left.
He checked out because he didn'twant to confront that evil.
He didn't want to own it. He didn't want to recognize it.
And I think that line that she says is that I'm not just mad
that you left. I'm mad that you took your light
with you, light that we all shared, we all deserved, and we
all need to fight off these demons.
(31:43):
I think that line meant a lot for me.
Yeah, yeah, I get that. I.
It kind of made me think of likewhen I'm frustrated at school or
work and the kids like, you know, this and that, it's just
going to be like, if they all have a light, you know, it's
like same with everybody. Like we all have a light.
And don't cut yourself off from the light that others can show
even some are dimmer, some are brighter, some fluctuate, some
(32:06):
go in and out it it's like we all have that light.
And I think Rachel's line to sayyou took your light away from
us. It's really, really hits.
Yeah, All right. I'm bought in, but I'm not a I'm
not. A few times.
I'm not as bought in as you, so I'm a go for.
I'm a go for. Fair, that's fair.
I I think if you read it again, I wonder.
(32:27):
That might be my only points. Take it away for the rest of the
score. It's kind of amazing.
Bad guys What? Else do you dock?
They're perfect. Yeah, the creepy grandma 5, all
the crazy ass operators that arebeing controlled by Victor, and
then at the very end you throw in this Perez twist that she's
on the inside. Oh my good God.
(32:49):
Reading it the second time, the hints are there the entire time.
You know from the minute the hints are there the entire time.
That she's bad. Yep, it's wild.
Yet you'd never see it. You'd never see it.
Even in the epilogue when she's picking up the phone, she's
getting released from the hospital.
They like give her a bag of belongings and she's like, I
(33:09):
don't care about all that crap. I just want these shoes.
And like she was hyper focused on like, I just want these
designer brand shoes. It's like she's representing
like materialism, you know? And it's just like little things
like that. They're just insanely telling of
her worldview and and why she's on the dark side.
And I'm just like, they're so subtle with it that when they
(33:32):
hit you over the head, it's almost like you knew it was
coming, even though it's so shocking, it's, it's just
perfectly done. Yeah, I guess the, the thing
that sort of pricked my, you know, put up my antennas the
most was when her partner dies or I keep calling her partner,
but it's not the, the the cop who was working in the same
(33:54):
division as her died. Fought him in the in the the
field of the parking lot. Yeah, yeah.
Oh, no. The one who arrested him.
The one who arrested. Him right who had she has no
sympathy for no sympathy, no like it is very strange.
Jed even says like, isn't he your partner?
Yeah, exactly. And.
She has no qualms about it, yeah.
She comes with like some like quick response to like, oh, I've
(34:17):
seen a lot you. Know, I've seen a lot.
It's just trauma. It's part of the job.
Yeah. And he's like, I've seen guys
die too. But like, it's not.
I don't just brush it off, ignore it, you know, You reckon
with it eventually. A little hints are there, man.
A. Little hints are there.
Yeah, for sure. And then good guys like
Jedediah, awesome main character.
(34:40):
And then we bring in the the secondary characters.
Love all the Shepherds, love theWatchers, love Corbin, you know,
and now David's going to have tobe his.
What is it called? His keeper.
Hey, His keeper, Yeah. So that and I love how all those
dynamics of their history and their relationship have to come
(35:03):
to a head. Sarah Beth is going to be one of
the watchers. David is going to be his mentor,
his spiritual mentor, his spiritual director.
So and all of that has to click.And here's the thing with Jed is
he pushed off so much from his life and ignored it and wanted
to just let it be in the past. But the one thing he knows is an
(35:23):
operation, you have to be all in.
You can't have things bothering you.
You can't have little greedy or petulant little annoyances, you
know, crop up between people. If that's the guy giving you
Intel on a mission, you got to trust it.
You know, if that's the little 12 year old girl who's telling
you she sees somebody around thecorner who's suspicious, you got
to trust them. And I think, I think Ben
(35:45):
explaining this to him with his operations background makes him
say he gives up. He gives up, you know, any
reservations he had and says, I'm all in.
And I do like that moment when he there's a it's a long chapter
where he's kind of mulling over if he's going to say yes to the
shepherds. And it's almost like, you know,
the Fiat. It's almost like the I'm the
handmaid of the Lord kind of thing.
And he has to kind of accept that and it's really cool to
(36:08):
watch him go through that. So good guys are who's your
favorite of all those? Let's take Jed out of the
equation. Who's your favorite?
That's. Tough for some reason I really
liked what was the name of the pastor who comes in she's.
(36:31):
Pastor D. Pastor DI really like Pastor D.
She's great, She's great. I imagine she's going to be, you
know, like a, a mainstay throughthe series.
I think she like overseas the keepers.
Oh, but I'm, I'm blanking on thethe leader of the Shepherds.
What's what's his name again? Ben Morvent.
(36:51):
Yeah, Ben, Ben. I love Ben, I love Ben, I love
Ben so much. You know, like Obi Wan Kenobi.
Yes, yes. You know, like Siri is black,
you know. Oh, you're so right.
All your all your favorite like leaders in in these these
stories. He's so Obi Wan, you're so
(37:13):
right. Yeah, he's Obi Wan like.
That's a great pull. That's a really good pull.
Yeah. I resonate with him.
I love it so much. If I got to give another one,
though, I say Corbin. I think Corbin's just a well
developed character wise beyond her years still being just a
teenager, you know, But in the Saint George's Academy, the
(37:35):
school and the training, it's like they're.
This also reminds me of, like X-Men, like, very much like
X-Men and Ben. Ben is like Professor X, Yeah,
you know, bringing it. I mean, imagine that Wolverine
is Jedediah, you know? Oh, yeah.
It has this like school of of misfit kids, you know, that have
this special ability. 100 percent, 100%.
(37:58):
Oh, wait till we get more St. George's.
Yeah. Oh, dude, there.
Oh, there's a, there's some great scenes coming up.
Yeah. I forget if it's second or third
book, but oh, there's some fun stuff coming.
That's all. That's all I'm going to say.
I'm going to say there it. It ends up channelling some
Harry Potter vibes with the student body at Saint George's.
Yeah. It's good stuff, dude.
(38:20):
It's good stuff. Nice.
You know, you know another good thing about this book, I think
this is our podcast episode withthe least amount of swear words.
It feels like we can't, I can't curse, you know, because of what
we read. I think it just happened like
subconsciously, but I think it'sbecause of how how positive this
(38:43):
book is and you got to be a goodChristian while you're on the
pod now. Yeah, very true, very true.
What do you think of the setting?
Oh man, yeah, it's really great.I think I would go 5 if I knew
Nashville. If I was from Nashville, whether
I've seen some of these churchesor he goes on a long walk, I
(39:04):
think he has a few hours to kill.
At one point he goes to a pub and goes for a walk, and then
there's that parking lot scene, I think is where he has that
battle with the first, the first.
Inning that he passes by. There's a complete replica of
the Barthenon in Nashville for some reason.
And he goes by it. Yeah, I think if I knew those
sites, I can go a little higher.The woods where Sarah Beth is
(39:25):
being held. I think they're all really,
really good. But I'm going to go for.
OK, I, I think I want to go a little higher, like 4 1/2.
And one of the main reasons is not that I've been in Nashville
or, or I have been to Tennessee,but I, we didn't go to
Nashville. My sister lived in Knoxville.
But you know, and I felt like the audio book narrator did this
(39:51):
well of like when they're describing the places it,
whether it's in the woods of thehouse or like when you're in
Victor's mind, they did a good job of like just making you.
Making me feel like I was there,like I was in this dark place,
(40:12):
you know, like just early on describing when she's locked up
with the grandma, it some of the, you know, descriptions of,
of where she is and, you know, the people and, and everything.
Just it gives you that like sortof dark darkness and, you know,
and then moving to the light more in like Nashville, like,
you know, outside brightly. You know, he's he's outside a
(40:34):
lot. I don't know.
I just, I really like that. And I felt that not often do
Dwight like feel that or, or remember that in in some of our
novels. So I'm going to go 4 1/2.
You're going to go 4, so. Yeah, I think that's fair.
I think. Yeah, makes a lot of sense.
The details were phenomenal. Squeaky floorboard outside the
door. She's thinking about that if she
(40:57):
has to escape. And then Jed steps on it.
Like all these little details. Yeah, silhouette in the window.
Victor, you're really transported there for sure.
Well, I guess it's time for the covers.
So I I'm going to give points tothe I looked it up because I
wanted to see the Nashville skyline and.
(41:17):
That is it. That is it.
So that's the AT&T building thatwas originally Bellsouth the the
AT&T headquarters. You know, we have a couple of
other buildings. So obviously, you know, heavily
getting the the Nashville vibes.Exactly.
For some reason, I don't get thesense that that's Jedediah, this
(41:38):
dark running man figure. He looks a little too skinny.
I mean, Jedediah is very tall, like 6-4, right?
But I get the sense that he's huge, you know?
And this to me just looks more like a Mitch rap style type
operator. It does or like a Tom Cruise in
(42:01):
Mission Impossible type operator.
I I like the the confetti kind of gives this idea of or you
know, whether it's debris, you know, we have those bombs that
go off in the courtyard, kind ofdrawn to that scene.
It's good. It's not great.
I. Kind of agree that the only
(42:22):
thing I'm going to say is that the silhouette does keep up as a
theme. It's never the running man
silhouette. It's never been my favorite
play. Mitch rap did a lot.
We made our jokes about that back in the day.
Brett Thorne never really had that, which was kind of nice.
Yeah, I I don't. It doesn't remind me of Jed I I
(42:45):
do think the colours are evocative of something related
to this eerie spirit world. The.
Blues Green, I see that, I see that.
Points for Nashville, of course,but.
When it looks like he's wearing a trench coat.
When is when is he ever wearing a trench coat?
A trench coat. When does he ever have his
weapon drawn? When does he ever?
Run a lot like. Well, sure, but I mean going
(43:05):
walking through the city. Right.
It's like when they're going to the church OP or, or he's going
into the house. I I do like the lines through
the text. I think that gives it a little
bit of that sense of these signals.
Yeah, I don't know, the lines through the text just remind me
something about some signals being sent or it intercepted or
(43:27):
or murky. I like, but yeah.
I like the birds like, you know,the birds going.
It's like the sense of this, some force that's there that
like disturbed the birds, you know?
The birds are even those lights,the the orbs, the orbs of light
I think do that too. So all that stuff I think is
helping. It helps.
Dude, you want to talk about a bad silhouette?
(43:47):
Just look at Dark Rising, the new book.
Granted I haven't read it so maybe if you judge the book by
the cover it's different, but. We have a female.
There's a woman. Yeah.
(44:08):
So standing man, standing lady. We get more definition of their
face. It's almost like a graphic
novel. That's what I'm saying.
But then again, it also just looks like, you know, buy me a
cover.com kind of characters. Granted, I don't know the story,
so it could be a real name storyscene.
Yeah. And then look at Dark Fall and
Dark Angel. It's funny that they also do the
(44:29):
silhouette, but totally different.
It's almost like books one and four, They're covers echo and
reflect each other. And then books two and three,
their book goes their, their covers reflect each other so.
Dark Fall looks more like an operator like like Sons of Valor
style. Exactly, and Dark Angel isn't
(44:51):
that really cool having Saint Peter's Dome back there.
Yeah, 'cause that that more so evokes the the operator Ness
dark and fully kidded out makes him seem like he's this I guess
he is kind of like because he's an ex Navy SEAL shadow figure.
He's the shadow figure for some reason.
I'm just not honestly, I think if you got rid of the figure, I
(45:15):
would be more on board with thatnovel.
That's why I think I I kind of like cover C better.
It's the same, you know, Nashville's skyline, the sunset.
You kind of have this like lookslike a kind of a storm coming
in. You have those glowing orbs.
Cover B is just, you know. The German cover?
Who knows? Typical German.
(45:37):
You know Rambo, We got freaking Rambo here.
Ein Shepherd series novel. Yeah, ein Shepherd.
I, I, I don't think we put much stock in to be the German one.
I've never seen it. I don't think it's actually
printed to be honest, anywhere outside the Germany.
So it's like that one probably doesn't even count cover.
See, I never even saw before researching for the POD.
(45:57):
I don't know if that's a paperback release or an ebook,
but I I definitely think cover Cis the best one.
I like getting rid of the silhouette.
Of the three. Yeah, it more of the Nashville
skyline like you were describingbefore you really get to see it
here. And still the orbs like you
said, maybe the birds would be cool, but definitely those orbs
of light are still there. So covers are OK.
(46:20):
I don't think I go lower than a three though.
I think I'm right about there. I think I'm.
Going to go 3/3 and 1/2. I could go 3 1/2, but I'll keep
me at the three. 3. Not my favorite, yeah.
Who's your free space dude? I hadn't thought about that one.
We said Corbin. I said Corbin before.
(46:41):
I might just have to stick with that.
I think the scene where Corbin and Sarah Beth are exploring the
spirit world, that's it. I'm going to go.
I'm going to go to the priest from the opening scene where
where we like first get, I guessI'm more so picking that entire
(47:03):
scene as like my face, you know,really getting you hooked in and
like you're confused or intrigued.
And then it culminates with likethis crazy ass, you know,
murder, accident, you know, typething where he, you know,
sacrifices his life to try to one, save Corbin and two,
potentially try to save, tries to prevent him from being
(47:25):
kidnapped. I feel like that just begins
this hook, line, sinker of of bringing you into that plot.
So to me, like that, that scene stands out.
So I'm I'm going to go with the priest from from the opening
scene. I forget his name, but Father
Macklin. Father Macklin.
Yeah, there you go. And representative of Saint
George. I will say I forgot my free
(47:46):
space should have been fake grandma or let's say McLeod
Andrews for pulling off that fake the Shepherd screen.
I could listen that over and over.
The Shepherd's scream, that's unbelievable.
Her entire voice in Persona. He does such a good job of
differentiating that from all the other female characters and
giving you this creepy ass vibe.Oh, there you go, I cursed.
(48:08):
So I must add a few in there at some point.
Nah, dude, when he does that shepherd scream that sat with me
that that one sat with everything about the fake
grandma scenes really. But that scream shepherd, I was
like, what? What is that?
Like what is that? Loved it.
I loved every minute of this audiobook.
(48:31):
True, true. All right, Well, pretty good
scores, but the first book. Pretty good scores what I take
of 123446 A 46. I'm a 40, I'm a 45 1/2, so we're
right there. We have not been more than 1/2
or one point off on a book in a long while.
We're kind of having a mind meldon what we like.
(48:51):
Yeah, I I wonder if that's a consequence of us talking out
our scores on the pod as opposedto us pre scoring before we we
come in. But who cares?
It's it's our pod. We can do what we want.
So. I'm really interested though,
because just like Steve Berry, Iwanted my recommendation to to
really hit with you, and I thinkit did.
And you want to read more, you want to keep going in the
(49:13):
series. I want to read go ahead speak
Berry. I want to read more of this.
I want to go ahead. I hope you know the second book
syndrome doesn't hit them with the next one.
So I'm. Not going to say much.
All right. All this is this one's my
favorite. The next one.
No dark intercepts my. Favorite dark intercepts?
Your favorite? OK.
But but then again, everyone on the pod knows I'm an
(49:34):
originalist. I like the originals, I like
first books. I like when I get hooked.
It kind of I kind of have this nostalgia for them.
Take it for what it is I want. I want you to have an open mind.
But this one is I think it's so good.
I think great stuff happens in the next two and I haven't even
read the fourth one. So we'll see what Dark Rising
has in store all. Right.
(49:56):
So what, what are we going to donext?
Are we going to continue on the series, pop around?
We have some new releases we need to cover what's on the pod.
I'm honestly not sure. So I think we got to just talk
offline and and set our second-half of 2025 schedule
because it's already June just crazy.
So I think we got to set our second-half schedule and and
nail that down. Maybe we could talk about that
(50:18):
tonight. Sounds good.
We'll, we'll put something out on the socials so that that way
you guys know what what we're going to be covering in the next
couple of weeks here. Yeah, Oh.
No, we've had a bunch of books like Move and we're not going to
get Cry Havoc anymore until October now, right so.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of dates moving
around, so we got to look at that.
(50:38):
We're going to cover all the newreleases of all our typical
thrillers we've done here. We're only going to be on the
Thriller podcast, so don't worryabout not hearing from us for a
while. We will be back here on this
feed. Mitch Rapp, Scott, Harvest
Seasons 1 and 2 are done and in the books.
Make sure you subscribe and listen to those.
But Chris, we can't let you go till I read you my Limerick.
(50:59):
Oh, give it to me. This book is not for deep
sleepers. It gives you the jeepers and
creepers overcoming grief through faith and belief.
Thank God for shepherds, watchers and keepers.
That's a good one, Mike. Yeah.
That's a good one. You're.
Saving it up, I think you, you wore yourself out and then they
(51:19):
need to come back to little rest, come back with it with the
eater. Now that we're on the thriller
pod, every book from here on forward will have a Limerick.
All right, I'm going to hold youto that.
Hold you to that. Sure.
Even if we need to chat JP Tate at the last second.
Well, and we have the follow up to Fade like we already have
that book in hand. We need to.
I need to physically read it and.
(51:39):
It in July, so I think that comes out June or July.
I think July. So Yep.
All right, more to come from theNo Limits Thriller podcast.
All right, well, we can't leave without thanking our patrons,
our deputy director, Sherry F, our special operator, Jason C,
(52:01):
our special agents of Ben, Darrell, Kevin, George, Matt,
Don, Peggy, Chris and Mark. Subscribe, rate and review to No
limits on Apple or Spotify wherever you choose.
You can find us at The Other pod.com or on Twitter and
Instagram at The Other Podcast and go check out our YouTube
page where you can watch full videos of this podcast.
(52:22):
And as always, just let Jedediahbe Jedediah.
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