Brad Elder - Recoil of Justice (Author Interview - No Spoilers)

Debut author Brad Elder joins Chris and Mike to discuss his first novel - Recoil of Justice. It's apparent right away that Brad is one heck of a storyteller.

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Episode Transcript

(00:16):
Today we are joined. I bet this is going to say I
feel good to hear debut author, fully published author, the
author of Recoil of Justice, andhe's Matthew Mcconaughey's
doppelganger. Welcome, Brad Elder.
Welcome, Welcome I. Wish that were true.
Thank you all very much. I wish that were true, but I'll
take it as a compliment. Well, we're really intrigued,

(00:38):
you know, find out a little bit more about you.
But how did you find us? You know, I don't know that I
remember exactly. It's Facebook.
I'm I'm a social media novice atbest and I believe, you know,
searching for thriller groups and y'alls came up and you were
interviewing. I believe it's Brad Thorn and I

(01:00):
was interested in that. So I thought, no, this sounds
like a cool podcast. So I started following y'all
and, and got completely into it and and I like realize y'all
geek out as bad as bad as I do over them.
So so I I fell in love with it. So we're doing something right.
We're doing something right. We sure are, yeah.
That's one person who's following our socials.
At least we got one. We got one.

(01:21):
Well, enough about us. Tell us all about you.
What's your back story? How you got into writing?
Yeah, that's a, that's a interesting story.
I'm, I was a lawyer. I've been a lawyer since 2005.
I went to law school later in life in my early 30s along the
way, had a family, you know, wasmarried already, but had a child

(01:44):
my second year law school and had to, you know, to go through
that process and, and it was a ton of fun, right?
And so got out, started practicing law and then opened
the title company and here in Lubbock and then bought one in
Houston. Fast forward to about, oh,
probably two years ago now, I'venever had a creative writing

(02:07):
back. I don't have a creative writing
background. I'm not a, I'm not an English
major, I'm not a creative writing major.
I was reading a, a Jack Carr book, Red sky morning and I
thought, you know, I think I maybe able to do this.
And so I, when I finished the book, I got on my computer and
just started writing. And that's how it started.

(02:29):
Was never a bucket list thing for me.
I didn't have any idea if I knewwhat I was doing or could do it
and but I just tried. I was I wasn't afraid to find
out because if I, you know, spend a little time and it was
terrible, then just shove it anddo something different.
But it kind of worked to where started getting good feedback
from it and stuck with it. And before I knew it, I had AI

(02:52):
had a book finished. Wow.
Because we hear everything. We've talked to so many authors
well established, like you said,Brad Thore, Kyle Mills, you
know, a lot of big names and it's incredible.
We get them on the pod. They're they're so humble,
right, even though they're twenty time New York Times
bestseller, you know, sometimes number one slot.
We even talked to Jack Carr a few times.
So you know, that's amazing. You got to it this soon.

(03:14):
But then on the other side, we've had people we've talked to
going for years just trying to find a publicist, having an
agent, you know, trying to push their book and they're, they're
not getting any traction. They're grinding so hard.
Even some who are self published, you know, they go the
the Kindle route or the ebook route and it's just a grind to
do that. So the fact that you know, you
heard that, you know that muse, you got that creative and spark

(03:36):
and and you follow through on itis, is just incredible.
That's pretty short turn around.Red Sky morning was a recent
book. You know, what was the actual
process like once you said, I'm going to commit to this?
What was the daily grind lookinglike?
Yeah, that's a good question. My I wrote out about four
chapters having zero idea where where it was going.
It's changed names about 3 or 4 times.

(03:58):
The the protagonist has changed names 3 or 4 times.
I didn't have an outline. I just wanted to see I had an
idea in my head and I wanted to see if it would if it worked and
I knew what and I could enjoy itfirst of all and second of all
right in a a cohesive manner andan entertaining manner.

(04:18):
So I wrote, wrote it out and handed it to my wife the first
couple of chapters. And of course she said, this is
really good. I love it.
But you know, it's your wife, you know, and, and then I handed
off to a friend of mine who's a professor and a, and a published
author himself just to get his feedback.
And I said, please, please, please be honest with me because

(04:39):
I don't want to spin my wheels for a couple of years doing
this. And it's awful.
And he was extremely complimentary and he said, you
have to see this through. And that gave me a lot of
confidence to say I'm, I'm goingto, I'm going to do it.
And, and you know, I'm 54 years old and I don't know how many
people start out riding and, youknow, in their, in their early
50s, but, but I did and you know, I, I had no idea what I

(05:03):
was doing. I thought I would ride it and
then go start looking for an agent and, and get a, get an
agent and, and hopefully get a publishing contract.
Well, that is, that is a very, very difficult process.
Just finding an agent sure is, is next to impossible.
And then once you, if you do find an agent, then they have to

(05:24):
find a publisher for you. And then if they find a
publisher for you, not only doeswhoever signs you have to buy in
sales has to buy in marketing has to buy in distribution has
to buy in. So it's a, it's a very daunting
task. So I thought, you know what, I
figured out things before I've started business before.
So I think I can do this. I'll just self publish it.

(05:45):
And my God, I've learned an entire or I am learning an
entire new industry right now. And it's, it's overwhelming.
It's absolutely overwhelming. Just the sheer number of
software systems out there. And, and you know, companies,
you know, saying how they can doeverything for you turn key.
And a lot of them are can't, anda lot of them are there to take

(06:10):
your money. And you learn that I, I fell
victim to it and it, it cost quite a bit of money to learn
that I could have done this on my own without their help.
Because literally the only thingthey've done for me at this
point is get me on Amazon and, and Barnes and Noble and, and
all the, and that's not difficult to do so, but you

(06:30):
leave an alarm. And you know, I've, like I say,
it's a very daunting task, but I've, I don't remember the last
time I've been this excited about doing anything.
I'm just, I'm just thrilled. Especially when you put out
something creative, there's a tremendous amount of
vulnerability there. Not so much to the general

(06:55):
public, I don't think I if somebody doesn't like me that I
don't know. OK.
Yeah, All right. That's fine.
You don't you don't like my book.
You don't think I'm I get? It turn turn the comments off
right. Yeah, that's right.
But when your friends or your family and you go, hey guys, I
think this is pretty good. What do you guys think?

(07:15):
And then people who love you and, and know you and care for
you, that's where the real vulnerabilities that's in,
because and that you're just right in the back of their mind
going, dude, you have no shot atthis, you know, so, and still
they're your friends. So they're going to say nice
things. And so you still have that doubt
until you start getting some traction out in the marketplace,

(07:36):
which again, is it's very difficult because you're
competing against hundreds of thousands of books out there,
competing against the studs in, in, in our world.
You know, we mentioned a few of them already and and there's
some tremendous amount of, of good independent authors as
well. But if you if you peel back the
onion and dive down, there's some really good programs out
there to help God like us. It'd be interesting if you ever

(08:00):
spoke to or saw on social media Erica Bishop.
He's been on the podcast a few times, very similar story, the
route he went down and how he had to figure out everything in
the self-publishing world. And now he's 3-4 books
published, I think, and a third one in his Body Man series
coming out. And every time we talk to him,
getting echoes of the same thingof just, you have to keep your
head down. You have to do what you do

(08:20):
because you believe in yourself.You, you have that spark and the
amount of work that took to get this thing published.
But you mentioned a little bit about it.
You're also doing an audio book now, and you also had the cover
to do so. Is that something outside
services helped you with? Or how did you get going on all
the logistics surrounding not just the publication of the

(08:41):
print format, but all the other formats that are required?
Yeah, I was, I was lucky enough to, I just Googled one day best
selling independent author and Icame up with with Mark Dawson's
name and just write an article about him.
And it said would you like to use Mark Dawson's editor?
Click on this link. And it was reezy.com.

(09:04):
That's what it was. And it's a basically a freelance
website. And I found my cover designer, I
found my editor, found the lady who built my website and
marketing, a marketing person aswell.
So there's a tremendous amount of people out there who are
really good at what they do and really good at what I'm not good
at. And and they were able to help

(09:26):
me through that because I didn'twant to look like it was an an
independent author just by the cover, because I do I judge a
book by its cover. I know we've spoken before.
Y'all do too. And so the last thing I want to
see in some of these independentauthors not naming names.
I don't really have any names toname, but there's so many come

(09:48):
across. I'm going, bro, that's really
bad. You know, why?
Why would why would why would you put that out there?
This is your name is on this, this is your your creativity.
Why would you put your name on? So I didn't want to look like
that. So I was willing to spend the
money for somebody really good to, to design a cover, you know,
a really good editor who not hurt my feelings.

(10:12):
But boy, I had to change. I had to change a lot of the
book and and delete a lot because again, I didn't know
what I was doing and I would go down some rapid trails and I
would go down these long dossiers or you know, these
about people and give the back story, like a long back story of
people. That was really too, too much.

(10:32):
And I hated deleting those and editing those out because they
were the most fun parts to to ride because you don't have to
pay attention to any back pattern or you just write
something interesting. So I had to, you know, delete a
lot, a lot of that out. Add in about another 1012
thousand words, but it made it amuch better book.
So there is there is help out there you can get.

(10:53):
And if someone wants to try to edit their own book, unless
they're a a writing editor or a teacher or professor or
something, I would suggest having someone else do that for
you. But yeah, there's help out there
for for guys like us, and I was very thankful for it.
Yeah, I mean, I'm just looking here your cover on your website.
I I thought that was the first thing I saw when I pulled up the

(11:15):
you were gracious to send us the, the E arc and really,
really like the cover. I mean, like it's, it's super
polished and like you wouldn't, I would, I would never be able
to tell that this wasn't put outby one of the, you know, major
media houses. You know, it.
I've seen worse covers by some of our other people.

(11:40):
We've read on the pod, you know,that we you know, and if you
listen to our podcast, we're we're very stickler with covers.
Yeah, and it's, you know, I, I feel like it's important.
It's the first thing that you see.
It makes you. I know when I'm going in, I
don't go into bookstores anymore, But when I used to go
into bookstores anymore in the past or you're, you're walking
by a Hudson news at the airport,right?

(12:02):
It's something that catches youreye.
It makes you want to pick that up, read that jacket cover and
then maybe buy the book. So kudos to whoever you got.
You made a nice choice there. Well, thank you.
Yeah, I'm like you. I can I can go through and scan
a scan a you know, you can go inthe Barnes and Noble or
something. They have the, the, you know,

(12:23):
featured books out there. I could scan.
No, no, no, no. Oh, here's a interesting 1.
You know so it and it's all by the cover.
The reverse though, is also true, as we call it on the pod.
Judge the cover by the book. And thankfully that helicopter
was there because important, important stuff in Ryan Wolf's
back story and how he became whohe became.
So I I love that touch. And then also the building on

(12:44):
the left, it kind of makes me think of the law firm.
Were you going for the law firm with that downtown city based?
I was office building. OK, that's.
How I was so in the in the splitscreen, because the split screen
was I want to take credit for that.
That was my idea to where he he's kind of two, two different
people. I don't know if we're talking

(13:05):
about spoiler alerts on here or now we're going to talk about
that, which I'm, I'm totally fine with, but I wanted to show
that, you know, he's this lawyer, he's a, he's a, you
know, downtown Houston and you know, he has that life, but
there's this another life he's going other life he's going to
morph into. And so I, I did like that.

(13:25):
Oh, I can't even think of the word right now, but just the the
differences in in him and the character and the arc that he's
going to go through. Yeah, and you mentioned
spoilers. I think we'll be spoiler
adjacent. So we're not going to spoil big
plot points, but we do want to give the audience a chance to
learn who these characters are and what they're going to get

(13:46):
into. Picking up Recoil of Justice,
because we want you to leave this interview absolutely
picking up Brad's work. I have to say it's a it's such
an enjoyable read and I came offof Edge of Honor by Brad Thor,
clearly going to be my favorite book of 2025 and I knew the next
book I read was going to have a tough task giving me that same
sense. Thanks, enjoyment.
Mike. Thanks, Mike.

(14:07):
You did not set him up for success there.
But I opened this one and I was sucked in and and it goes to
what you're saying about the cover because you come off of
Brad Thore book the the pinnacleof action and a character I've
read for 20 years and a big important part of my life.
I'm like a lawyer. How are you going to weave a
story that proves to me he's a bad ass?

(14:27):
And how do you put a cast of characters around him that I'm
going to buy into? And he all of a sudden got
dropped into this plot that cameorganically out of his work.
It made sense why a lawyer wouldbe drawn into this world.
And then he also crossed paths with people.
You know, the side characters here are amazing.
So what was it like building this cast of characters?

(14:48):
And I, I also have to say what Iliked about your opening
chapters. And I texted you this.
I felt like it was an everyman story.
I just, you know, a lot of thesebooks are the larger than life
heroes, the former seal, the Secret Service guys, the the the
the people we all would want to look up to and aspire to in
another life. You know, and then we come to

(15:09):
this lawyer living in Texas, very down home kind of feel and
like, what kind of antics and shenanigans is he going to get
into? And will I buy into it?
Well, right off the jump, he's trying to leave his house to go
to work and he's got a, you know, just cut down a tree that
fell from the storm and he callshis neighbors.
Everything felt so real. It was refreshing to have a
protagonist who was an everyman just here.
I I could identify with him. Well, and, and that was it was

(15:33):
in my mind the entire time I when I read, you know, about
Scott Harvath or I read about James Reese or, or miserable,
whoever it may be, you know, I'mnot gonna lie.
I picture myself as the bad ass,you know, I'm the one shooting
the bad guys and the terrorists and and taking them out.
But you know, it's all fantasy. It's all.

(15:55):
Fantasy completely. And and I never wanted to ride a
legal thriller that didn't really appeal to me much.
I I did want to ride an action, an action thriller and have a, a
good protagonist, but I don't have ACIA background.
I don't have a military background like these guys do
and, and know the inner workingsof that world.
So that will what world do I know?

(16:17):
And, and my thoughts were alwayswhen I'm reading those books,
what would a normal guy do if put in that situation?
What would I do if put in that situation?
I'm not talking about a regular home invasion where I think we
could all muster up the stones to protect our family.
You know, what would you do if you're put in the situation with

(16:39):
overwhelming odds against some really, really nefarious people?
And how would you react? And so, and another thing with
the, with the other characters we talked about and you just,
you just touched on a mic, you come in with this larger than
life character. Well, we, their baseline or the,
or their foundation was set for years before we get to know

(17:02):
them, right? They've already gone through the
seals. They've already been in the CIA
or Secret Service or what have you for a lot of years.
I wanted the character that my readers could grow with from
their from the genesis of where they start, where this character
starts. Now, obviously they're not with
him in the early years of of hislaw firm, but that's not where
the focus of this series is going to go.

(17:24):
It's not going to be a a, a legal thriller.
And but I had to introduce this to show he was an everyday man,
an everyday lawyer, just like, you know, a good litigator, but
he gets in with a mix of all theother litigators in the world.
I couldn't just have him show upon the scene.
This lawyer starts shooting people, then he's the murderer,
right? So I had to set the foundation

(17:45):
early. And then I really want and I'm
about halfway through with Core Truth, which is the follow up
novel and where he starts to this darkness that he felt or
this this Eric was badassery that he felt like the primal

(18:07):
attraction to what he lived through in in Enrico Justice is
calling to him and asking himself, is that something that
I'm that attracted to that I can't stop thinking about it.
And I'm not a hesitant to get drawn back into that world.

(18:29):
And, you know, I, I, you know, and I'm thinking two or three
books I had to, and where that can go.
And I'm excited about where it can go.
I have to, I think I'm having tostep easy and not to step too
far to where, you know, in this book, the beginning of this
book, he's just a dude, man. He's just a lawyer.
I'm hesitant to have him in the very next book, gun wielding

(18:50):
and, and taken out, you know, Islamic terrorists or something
of that nature. So I'm going to have to baby
step it a little bit, I think. And I hope I can do that pretty
seamlessly. I think, I think that's a smart
play because you mentioned you didn't want it to be a legal
thriller, but knowing that's your background, I almost felt
reading the chapters that were inside, not the courtroom, but

(19:12):
like the deposition room during,you know, deposition.
I, I thought that I felt like was your wheelhouse, your bread
and butter. It's like you were flowing and
so smooth and how you could write that.
And I just knew it was because of your personal background.
And I was going to say that too.Like, I have felt that the real
strength that you brought to it,obviously, and then trying to
bring this dichotomy, right, He said of being a lawyer and

(19:34):
having, you know, some military background and, and, you know,
having him thrust into action. But I felt that you were able to
blend the, the legalese and like, you know, really show that
all right, he is a good, you know, good lawyer, but then also
just oppose that with some action and, and, you know,
having it believable. So.

(19:54):
Well, thank you for that. I, I tried real hard to to blend
the two without making just thisgap, you know, this huge with
this huge gap and and. And that's why I kind of taught
in some of the back story of himgrowing up and hunting and
growing up with with Colonel Chuck, you know, as as a young
man and some of the things that he was able had to encounter so

(20:14):
little seeds that show you that he's no stranger to pulling a
trigger now, maybe a stranger towhat he's doing later and you
know, later in the book. But you know, it was a, it was a
balancing act that I tried to weave in early because I didn't
think if I just ended Part 1 theway I did without weaving in

(20:35):
that back story, it was going tobe believable.
So like I had to get give a couple of little little tidbits
in there. The back story linked it for me.
I was enjoying so much. Part one or first third of the
book. We're meeting the law firm,
we're getting introduced to the case, the deposition scene.
I I just keep coming back to it.It was like where he's he's at

(20:56):
his apex as a lawyer. He's firing all cylinders.
I'm like this. Is why that was my favorite
chapter to write I think. Oh I I could it comes to the
page. Yeah, it really comes out.
It really comes out I'm like, how are you going to have this
guy gun tote and going wild? And the back story was a perfect
vehicle to do that for people who haven't read the book yet.
The helicopter on the front plays a big role in that.

(21:16):
And I, I, I really like that link in that transition.
And then I kind of the third wave, which takes up about the
the entire second-half of the book is the cartel stuff.
Did you know you wanted to writea cartel drug running kidnapping
book? Like, did you have the plan for
this to become taken with Ryan Wolf?
Yeah. Have I was going to ask, have
you had any background with thisor what was the research like

(21:37):
into that? You know, I, I've, I haven't
been in a cartel. I've never fixed down a.
Cartel before, Not that kind of background investigating A
cartel, I guess. No, I haven't.
You know, the, the way I got that that idea is, you know, I
think it's a it's a good story and it's a sad story.
There is a, a charity here in town in, in Lubbock that's

(22:00):
phenomenal with helping victims of human trafficking.
And, you know, I just started researching human trafficking
and find, you know, find that all the different links to to
the cartel and had to tie in somehow, you know, the Martez
family, you know, how to kind oftie that in somehow to do that.

(22:20):
But no, I don't have, luckily I don't have any experience, you
know, personal experience with that.
But I just man, I read a lot andand because I wanted to be
authentic, you know, and you know, I got the idea.
I think I said it the at the in the beginning of the book with
the AI angle. I got that from Jack Carr.

(22:40):
And I hope, I hope they everybody realizes I gave him
full credit in the beginning that that, that, you know, I did
get that that from him. And I thought, and that's always
really intrigued me. Where can it go and how far can
Hey, I think it could be a phenomenal thing for us.
But I also think that just like the Internet's a phenomenal

(23:02):
thing, but it's also can be an, you know, people can use it for,
you know, for very bad purposes.So, so I just like I say, I did
a ton of research on it and try to get a little tidbits of
information and, and spur on ideas.
So I didn't have, you know, whenI said I'm sort of right there,
it's like I said, I didn't, I didn't have a plot.
I, I kind of had an idea of whatI wanted to do.

(23:23):
Like Eric Meyer in the beginningwas a completely different
character in the in the first draft and he was going to one of
the ones, you know, that was being kidnapped.
But I had to no, no, no, no. So I once I got my, my arms
around where I wanted the plot to go, then it then it kind of
fell in and there was there was periods there that of weeks that

(23:43):
I'm going just don't know where I want to go with this.
And I would read the book over and over and over and over
again, at least the part of it Ihad read until something
happened. It could be, it could have been
anything, you know, seeing anything like, oh, there we go.
And then it just happened. So, you know, the, in the, the
cartel part, obviously living inTexas, we're cognizant of that

(24:08):
and we're, you know, because there's some overflow and then,
you know, this is a very large human trafficking area through
here. So that was kind of close to my
thoughts and close to my heart that, you know, that there are
some really awful people doing some really awful things to some
really good people. And I and I wanted to to make a
story about that and the heroes around in that.

(24:29):
Yeah, I thought that was a good choice to, you know, kind of,
you know, obviously you're trying to establish yourself.
You're trying to establish this,you know, sort of new legal
thriller not, but not a courtroom, you know, not, not at
your typical John Grisham legal thriller.
I thought it was a good choice to ground your climax in such a

(24:49):
real thing, you know, something that's that's so real in the
world and and something that is believable that, you know, this
lawyer could be thrust into as opposed to like picking some
sort of, you know, having him like just an example, having him
stop a nuclear plot for some reason, you know, yeah, pick,
pick any of your other, you know, crazy.
You know, this is sort of real. Like you said, not that every

(25:10):
man has taken down a a cartel trafficking ring, but like, you
know, there's local law enforcement, there's, you know,
local FBI agents that are, you know, doing this and they're not
the Mitch rap style people, you know, So like, it's very
believable that he could be involved with something like
this. And so I thought that was a
really good choice. It's a sense of duty.
Too man, man versus man at some point, you know, and that, yeah,

(25:33):
and if. It's how he was raised.
Yeah. Like I, I got the sense that he
was raised, you know, on this ranch and working on the ranch
and all the lessons we were learning from, from his father
and from Colonel Chuck. It feels like for them to turn
around and go, no, we're not going to save the girl.
You know, it's like they were full in and I knew they would
be. And that that group, once you

(25:54):
have the Martez family, once youhave all these connections, it
became personal. And yeah, if he had to go off
and stop a nuke and chase guys down all throughout Europe and
run through cities and I bet what?
But the fact it was on a ranch, it was.
And Speaking of setting, I want to get into that, you know,
you're you're a Texas guy. What was it like crafting both
the Cutter ranch and his back story?
The Martez Ranch? I don't want to give too much,

(26:15):
but a really awesome tunnel. I'm just going to leave it at
that. What was it like coming up with
these kind of sweeping grand panoramas?
Well, the Cutter Ranch is actually I thought of as a, as a
ranch that I used to hunt on as a grown man at the time, but
it's it's a friend's ranch. And so that was kind of in my
mind there. And, and some of the characters

(26:36):
and guides that they had at at the ranch.
It was kind of a gave me that idea.
And then getting down to the to the Martez rich, I knew I needed
a deeper connection to Mexico. You know, I didn't think it was
real believable that that Ryan was going to, you know, grow up
and in these late teens hanging out around Mexico because just

(26:59):
knowing, knowing I I've gone back to to my youth too.
And Ryan's you. There's some similarities
because I wrote his dad kind of after my dad and and parts of
Ryan is very similar to to my life.
My parents were never going to let me go down to Mexico at 19
years old and go to a ranch. So I thought, well, I need
something a little closer, a little closer to home.

(27:20):
But for the for the remaining plot, I knew I needed a closer
tie to Mexico and the two ranches sprawling both sides of
the Rio Grande. To me was was the perfect fit.
And I knew they had to be a a prominent family to be able to
afford a place like that, first of all.
And the tunnel to me was that's another chapter I really

(27:42):
enjoyed, enjoyed riding. Yeah, I don't want to have too
many spoiler locks, but there's a really cool tunnel.
I could tell you enjoyed that. I I between the the lawyering
scene, the back story on the Cutter Ranch and then when that
tunnel was introduced, I just felt like it was you were
creating a voice. You know how you read some

(28:03):
authors and every book you see kind of the similar things where
they're reflecting a part of themselves into it and the
writing is just elevated. And those were a few scenes that
just stick out where the writingwas elevated almost naturally.
Should we coin it an elderism? It's an elderism, yes, another
elderism. You talked about some time

(28:23):
jumps, and I'm sure it had to dowith a lot of the editing.
I felt like it was something newthat I hadn't seen, and it
worked where a scene plays out and the thing happens, but then
we go back two weeks or we go back, you know, a couple of
hours beforehand. And it was like really nice to
see how that thing developed, but I already knew where it was

(28:44):
going to go. To me, that was also a really
unique elderism that I haven't seen any other authors do.
Well, thank you for that. And, and that's the part of the
book that I probably, I'm opening the beer, by the way,
sorry, I'm, that's why I'm doingunder the under the table here.
And I'm I'm struggling getting it open so.
There's no free ads. It should be a Shiner.
Box though. If it was a Shiner box, I'd

(29:05):
give. It to you, that's why I'm
holding under the table because I don't want anyone to never get
a beer out there. That's the part that I still
struggle with a little bit that I hope I did it seamlessly
enough to where it's not hard tokeep up with a little bit.
And I, you know, I'm, I'm very open about talking about what,

(29:28):
you know, after the fact, what weaknesses I thought or things I
thought I think maybe I could dobetter.
And that's potentially one of them.
But I've always loved those books or those movies.
Like I go back to the movie. Do you remember the movie
Memento, I believe was the name of it, where it started at the
end and then it would lead you somewhere and then we go back
and see. I thought that was brilliant.

(29:51):
And so I wanted to have a coupleof little things in there that
were like that to where, you know, lead you down a path.
And then I give you what happened just before to kind of
open the, the truth about what you, what you just read and,
and, and have those little, Oh, I didn't see that coming
moments. And I, I hope I was able to hide

(30:13):
those moments to where they didn't see them coming.
And and then the the because linear to me, it just didn't
seem to fit as well. It wouldn't going to be the oh,
the shock moment that that I wasgoing for.
So yeah, I appreciate the fact that you guys enjoyed that.
I I struggle with should have done that or shouldn't shouldn't
have done that but. I'd keep it.

(30:33):
Keep it for sure. I would keep it for sure.
Yeah, I think. It gives you a little bit of a
distinct, Yeah, like like you said, it's not, it's not a
tactic that's often used. I do think I've been.
Played well then. I think having the the timelines
to start a chapter was very helpful because there was so
much back story when we were meeting new characters.

(30:53):
I thought that was fine because if you paid attention to it as
the reader, you in your mind arerealizing.
All right, I'm. I'm filling in some gaps and
going backwards here. So I think it's I'll touch it,
yeah. Well, thank you.
I even toyed with adding a timeline like as A to the book.
But then I thought, well, and then I'm just giving now I'm

(31:13):
giving away too much. So I just, I just scrapped that.
But I can assure you I had one and, and was making sure that
and then going back through and like, well, I just said I just
had three years there. But now I'm this alludes to me.
Maybe it was five years. So I, you know, there's a lot of
those things I had to keep, had to keep track of.
That's a neat idea though I could see some version of it.
I think a whole timeline giving it away in the front or even an

(31:37):
appendix at the end maybe doesn't work.
But I, I'm, I wonder if like each part, you know, like Part
1, there's like a timeline of Part 1, it doesn't give you too
much and Part 2 you have anotherchunk of it.
I don't know, I think something like that could be really
creative. Hope yeah, that didn't wasn't
too loud. It's all good.
We'll amplify that sound effect right there.

(32:00):
Hey, you know, just trying to bereal on here.
That's who I am. So I.
Just like yeah, wait till 8:00 at night.
I really want to get into another character that I seem to
jive with and this is the the Seth Seth Pitluck.
Seth, yeah. What was your approach to
writing such a quirky character like that?

(32:21):
You know, I feel like every bookhas to have like somebody like
that. You know, it's like the man, the
man in the chair, you know, Spider Man would say.
But what? Did you have any sort of
inspiration? What's that?
Well, his name is actually the name of the professor I used to
read. The book from.
The beginning. So it's it's his middle name and
and his last name. You know, I love Nicholas and

(32:43):
the Scott Harbath books. I just love that.
Just the smart dude that you're,you're going like, oh, if I
didn't have him. Yeah.
Holy cow. But I also knew I couldn't have
a Nicholas. I couldn't have a guy who's at
the absolute top of his game working for the CIA.
They don't take Grindwolf's calls, you know, but in Austin

(33:07):
especially, it's a doc, the techhub of, of, of Texas.
There's a lot of really off the wall guys like that, you know,
smoking pot, living in his grandmother's basement who are
absolutely brilliant people. And it's almost that little,
that subculture of people that Ithink can also be heroes.

(33:32):
And that's that's why I wanted Seth to to play a prominent role
there. He's just like I said, he's he's
a hey, bro, you know, you know, bro, bro, bro, this, but he's in
that. He's absolutely brilliant.
And I knew Ryan needed somebody like that because I couldn't
also make lineup Ryan a lawyer and a tech guru.
You know, he needed somebody that's and and somebody outside

(33:53):
the company who may be willing to step over some Gray, you
know, Gray, some of the black lines, you know, and and so that
that was kind of my thought process is that subculture.
Who? My God, they can they can they
again? They too can be heroes.
They can be heroes and sometimesthose guys are more scary to me

(34:16):
than just like your your traditional terrorists, right?
Because it's these anonymous guys who really have all the
power. If they wanted to flip the
switch tomorrow, you know, anonymous and all their
networks, they, they can also bethe scary ones.
So it's nice when they're working for the good team, when
they're with the good guys, theyeasily cannot be.
And so that goes to another angle of the book.

(34:37):
We talked how it opens as like alegal thriller doesn't
completely go that way. It kind of is a western almost
did in a sense. It also has this kidnapping
story, but then there's the the tech drama of it all.
And then and the tech stuff and you, you mentioned Jack Carr,
everybody loves Alice. Alice, such a great character.
Got a lot of car books. I feel like you come up with

(34:58):
some really crazy tech in the dark web and how there's all
these layers to it. Were you riffing on that, coming
up with that on your own or or is some of the stuff possibly
out there this really like deep encryption that's totally
unbreakable? Yeah, I was going to ask about
the Serum X drive is that is that?
Serum Dr. Yeah. It's totally that was totally

(35:18):
made-up. No, I have no idea what that is.
Forsyth was another one. Forsyth, yeah.
Forsyth three. I made that one up too.
Yeah. None of those actually exist to
my knowledge. The layers of the dark web.
I did do some research on that. It actually alluded to it in one
of, in one of Jack's books aboutthe different layers and kind of

(35:41):
what they mean. And so I couldn't remember what
it was. So I, I, you know, Google's
amazing, but you can find out. And if it's not true, well,
it's, it's fiction. So, and then just to kind of
explain the, explain the different levels.
And, and I also knew that you had to have extremely powerful
computing, A computing power hasto be astronomical to get to

(36:04):
those, to get to those darker, darker levels.
And I, and I wanted to really paint a picture of why this
system is so valuable and, and so important, because it's not
like you can go on Google or on Bing or something like that and,
and access the system. You have to, it's down there

(36:27):
because it is so secure. And that's just why all these
people wanted to wanted to get their hands on it.
And big money, big money around that.
That also opens up the door for a really cool move you make.
We've read a bunch of books recently that comment on this
idea of global elites, this ruling class.
You know your Bezos's and and musks and look at everything in

(36:48):
the news today about those thoseclowns.
You, you had an opportunity here.
It was a lot of fun with these two Titans almost you almost
have the good guy, the bad guy, the elite you kind of want to
cheer for and hope has all the resources to improve the world
and and make things better. But then you also get a guy you
or a couple of guys you put thattechnology into the wrong hands,

(37:09):
whether it's an elite, someone with money and power and
influence over companies and economics, or even someone drug
cartel, because that's another kind of power.
What was it like creating these two main elite characters?
Yeah, I wanted to show the not the Ying and the Yang, but like
you said, the good guys and the bad guys.
And while most things like that are meant for good and it can be

(37:33):
used for good and like you say, in the wrong hands now the bad
is, is infinitely more powerful anytime you have these brilliant
bad guys. And I, I really wanted to
humanize those guys to Justin Alcorda and and Vicente
Gonzalez. I wanted to humanize them to
where they're not comic book characters.

(37:55):
You know, they, they are. And so you wanted to, I wanted
to show that they're has they'd use the word positives, but
they're brilliant, brilliant people.
And they have now they have an extremely powerful computing
source where they can take theirworld and amplify it 1000 times,

(38:19):
just like we could take our goodworld and amplify it 1000 times
and hide behind it and hide behind it.
Yeah. And and then I really, I really
did enjoy riding the the Alcordawas a fun character to ride to
where he was even a leg up on onGonzales and and his his goals

(38:43):
here were even more sinister, I think, than than Vicente's.
Though it's a dog eat dog world,I'm sure in the leadership of
these these groups. You can't trust anybody.
No, no. And you'll get a, you know, to
me, it's there's no, no, what's that?
No honor amongst thieves I guessis kind of that be the mantra

(39:07):
there. But humanizing them is a smart
move too, because I'm thinking 1character, a driver.
And it's like you could see how their charm and actually even
Paul, there's a couple of instances where you do this.
I don't want to give away too much, but the charm that these
guys have, they're manipulative and that's how they've worked
their way to the top and they stepped on so many people below

(39:27):
them. But that's how they also, you
know, influence people. What is it?
Get friends and influence peopleat the same time.
Groom. It's a grooming tactic, and it's
just even more sinister and diabolical because of that.
And now you put them in bed with, yeah, a Bidwell or a
company that's, you know, selling them software to make
them do whatever they want, wherever they want, invisibly.

(39:48):
That's all I'll say about it. That's a crazy plot.
And that's why a lawyer who's involved in a case against them
would make sense to go toe to toe with them.
Well, I'm glad you guys. I'm glad, really glad you guys
like that and. And again, those those side
character, not side characters, but those ancillary characters
were a ton of fun to ride. Colonel Chuck was a fun was a

(40:09):
ton of fun to ride. I bet Fuller and and McCall who
worked again, I use a lot of names of my friends.
Justin Concorde is my little Little League assistant coach,
by the way, and is the finest man you'll ever meet in your
life. And McCall and Fuller also also
friends. And so is Vicente Gonzalez.
And to my knowledge, he's not the leader of a cartel to my

(40:32):
knowledge, although it's questionable sometimes.
But you know, I like, I like doing that, enjoy doing that.
You know, some of the guys have some of the the popular writers
have the thing they do that they'll if someone is a gives
enough money to a charity of their choice, they'll take the
benefactor and and name a character after him.

(40:54):
I mean, I don't have that that kind of pull.
So I I use some of my friends names and and it was fun to
write my call to as a five 865 LB balding man because the real
Jamie McCall is about 6 foot and2:15 and quite the ladies man
so. Great.
I bet he loved that. I bet he loved it.
I don't know that he can read though, so.

(41:15):
Daddy's ready. Well, it's bedtime story, mommy.
Will read it too, that's right. That's great.
That's great. Well, so you mentioned you're
already right in the next one. What can you give us A little,
you know, where do you want to go next?
I want advance the advance him and on the action side, you

(41:36):
know, obviously it's in the beginning.
There's a setting of, of him being him being in, in the law
firm, but in it, it's, it startsoff about a year after recall
finishes. And some of the things he's done
on the side to, to prepare himself for this primal feeling

(41:57):
that he had, this feeling of being part of a team, this
feeling that he's really trying to fight this guilt that he has
cause the guilt sets in and he'strying to fight why he's feeling
guilty, so guilty. And it's eating at him.
And then, and I won't get too much away, but there's a, a
scene with his, with his father,who he learned some things about

(42:22):
his dad and, and their commonalities.
And it kind of sets a, it gives him, it enlightens him a great
deal to where he can embrace this feeling he has.
Not to say he's going to go out and just start mowing down
Cartel or anything like that, but it's OK to feel the way

(42:46):
you're feeling and then circumstances come back around.
Still a little bit tied to Invisidata, some characters that
he didn't realize were involved or involved.
Still, it's not the end of the story and I haven't fleshed out

(43:08):
exactly how far that's going to go, where that's going to go.
But there's much bigger players,more powerful players involved
in this. And again, how exactly they're
going to be involved and how exactly it plays out.
I'll know it when I write it probably.

(43:30):
But it's a continuation of the story.
And it's, to me, it's that next step into a realization.
I'm hoping in the book after this that he realizes he's
surrounding themselves and he's in bad company and and he is
welcoming of that. OK.

(43:50):
Yeah, I'm glad to hear that because he does some things here
that will weigh heavily on you, particularly as a lawyer, as a
career professional. I'm sure a couple of things that
they they got to do and they gotthey got to do to save the day.
You Greg got to grapple with. So it sounds like it's exactly
where I expected him to go. He's got to grapple with it.
And it's it's intriguing to hearsome players who we may know may

(44:13):
be more connected than we we previously thought.
And you do something really smart folks, when you finish
this book. There's a short teaser for Core
of Truth And I thought that was so cool because I finished the
book and I'm expecting here's a preview of the next 10.
Great, a chapter or two. And then it's only one line.
I'm not going to say much more about it, but that one line,

(44:34):
make it, it makes you want it. It makes you want it.
So that was a really smart, like, pull the rug out from us.
Well, I, I hope so. And I, you know, the way it ends
in recalling again, it's I don'twant to give away too much, but
it's, there's a little bit of a,a bow tied, tied around it.
I would say I didn't want, you obviously want to leave a little

(44:58):
bit of a, a clipping in there. That's why I wanted to put, I
wasn't very far into it. I didn't know what the prologue
was going to be as of yet, but Iwanted people to know Not over
yet. Yeah, that got me.
That got me, yeah. Yeah, it was, it was a
tremendous amount of, and I'm having a tremendous amount of

(45:18):
fun just meeting guys like you and, and the founders group and,
and the, and the feedback I'm getting.
And you know, any time a review comes through and I get to read
it, my heart starts pounding a little bit.
And, but so far so good. I've had, I've had really good
reviews and, and I'm hoping thatcontinues, but it's a tough
process. It is self-publishing is not
easy. And but, you know, I'll, I'll,

(45:43):
I'll keep figuring it out and I'll, and at the end of the day,
I'll, I'll keep writing books too.
You got to, it's got a, you know, and if I remember you, you
brought up Eric Bishop, but he, he would write stuff and put it
away or start something else andthen think and come back.
And then it would just be, you know, the more and more like
you, you said you're writing a process like the more and more

(46:04):
you expand and contract, expand and contract.
And I think like the better the book, better things get that
way. So.
Sure, Yeah. And the patrons seem to have
some really good feedback for you.
A couple of our fellow patrons have read the book podcast
listeners and just like us, theythey can criticize things like
we've had. A lot, yeah.
We've had a lot of the chats ripping books apart and, and

(46:25):
everyone so far, like myself, has been really positive in the
group chat. A lot of the things we talked
about tonight that that we loved, a lot of fellow podcast
listeners have loved so. Yeah, it was really good to hear
that and, and really good to seethat.
And they warned me, hey, we're, we're, we're going to give some
honest feedback here. And, and, and, and they did

(46:47):
they, they give a little feedback on, on the jump, you
know, the little bit. I had to really pay attention to
the, to the timeline. And I don't disagree with that,
but I think if you do pay attention to it, it's not it, it
adds to the story, doesn't distract from it.
But I think that, yeah, they've been, they've been amazing.
And I even shared the, the potential new covers for for

(47:09):
core truth. And I was scared to do that.
Let me tell you, I'm like, Oh myGod.
But, you know, positive reception.
Yeah, positive reception and. What's it like being in the
Patron group from your perspective?
What's it like joining us? Well, you know, I feel like a
latecomer obviously. And you know, everybody seems to

(47:29):
know each other well and, and get along real well.
And I want to, you know, I want to show a little bit of my
personality because I'm, I don'tpurposely trying to do that, but
I'm also not holding back from some of the stupid shit I say,
you know, from time to time. And, and then I get kind of
where like, do they get my senseof humor or they, they know I'm

(47:50):
just, I'm just kidding. But it's, I'll tell you what
changed me and I'll show you what changed the way I approach
writing. Hey.
Oh. Scorecard.
Scorecard it works. And it's sitting on top of.
It's a very high score. About halfway through and it's

(48:12):
my Jack car a little bookmark there.
But yeah, this this changed the way I think this is phenomenal
for what you what you guys look for and I say you guys is in is
in serious thriller thriller readers.
And I started to go through and question almost score recoil of

(48:32):
justice on it too. And like, Oh my God, the setting
that I do that I do a good enough job on describing the
setting. Is the setting believable?
So it has changed my approach though in writing.
It really has and I really appreciate the hell out of it,
to be honest with you. And I'm, I'm was nervous to when

(48:52):
y'all did the scorecard on can'tremember his fade or fade in or
whichever 1 you guys did it on. I thought, Oh my God, are they
going to do this online? Just present it to me right in
front of me. So I got a little nervous, but
yeah, it's, it's I've, I've been, it's been so welcoming to
be part of the founders group. If anybody out there thinks they

(49:12):
may want to do this, don't hesitate.
It's fantastic. And everybody seems to be tight
net and caring. And you know, we share some
personal things on there as well.
And, and you, you kind of get toknow people and, and feel like
you're building friendships. Yeah, that's good.
Love that it's it's my second family, third family.

(49:34):
Yeah, we, I think when we launched the Patreon group, we
already had a number of listeners.
We knew the podcast faithful were on social media.
We're like, what if we get even tighter with a group chat and
quarterly Hangouts. So we, we look forward to
actually having you on one of those our book club Hangouts.
Maybe we'll do your book as one of our book club books, but we
let the group vote. Everyone gets a vote.
Yeah, like, yeah, let everybody vote and I don't want to force

(49:55):
force anybody to do it. But, and a little, I hope I can
say this, the Mitch Wrap Founders group is coming out
Founders clubs. Coming out the ambassadors,
Yeah, yeah, yes. If you've never applied to that,
I recommend it. It's you get an early copy of
the book. They want you to put a review
out early and whatnot and push it on your socials.

(50:16):
But I feel like the group who gets the Mitch Wrap books early
almost all want to have side chats and like DMS going on
talking about it, but they can'tpost the spoilers.
So yeah, it really builds a lot of hype for the next book for
sure. I wish Brad Thor would do that
because I read the Brad Thor book a month ago now and I
couldn't talk about it with anybody.
And I liked it so much. So now that people like yourself

(50:37):
and Chris are starting to finishit, I'm like, I could finally
talk about it. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And you just said Brad Thor
book. I have some hot takes and that's
all I'm going to say. All right.
So there's no spoiler alert, youknow, so that was it got me
excited to excited to read it. And you know, with trying to
market my book and trying to work on core truth a little bit,

(50:58):
I've almost had to like make a decision, am IA reader or am IA
writer because there's so much of your time that's taken up
just trying to get launch a bookand get it off the ground.
But so I bought the book and I download the audio book too.
So when I'm taking my son to baseball or or going to pick him
up from camp or going to get a haircut this morning, So I had a

(51:19):
15 minute drive. I'm trying to get the, you know,
15 minutes of the audio book here and then coming home to an
hour of the book and then find some time to to ride and, you
know, work in my real job as well, so.
Triple dipping, yeah. Yeah.
If it weren't for audiobooks, wewould not be able to crank out

(51:40):
as much content as we do audiobooks.
And your drive to work, Chris, particularly commuting is the
only way I can get these things read.
Yeah. So we don't, we don't commute.
I mean, Lubbock's quarter million people, the most I'm
ever in the car for is maybe 10 minutes.
So the only time I'm really is, you know, times like that or if

(52:00):
I'm, you know, on a road trip and just makes the miles click.
So I kind of had to do both. I can't listen to an audio book
at home. Too many distractions.
I can't just sit there and stareoff into space and listen to an
audio book because if I'm listening to and doing something
else, I won't pay attention to the book.
So I have to have, I usually will buy the just like with one
of the Mitch Rad books. I've got both the print book and

(52:23):
and the audio book that I can take advantage of whatever
whatever setting up on myself in.
You know what I actually did with yours since we had the
electronic version. I hope you don't mind.
And I don't know if this breaks any copyright rules.
I put it into an AI program to read it aloud to me.
And I know you have an audio coming, so yeah, I won't send
that out to anybody. But I was able to pick Burt

(52:44):
Reynolds voice. So I had your book read to me by
Burt Reynolds. My God, I wish I hadn't hired my
guy. Now I want Burt Reynolds to do
my book. It didn't have accent.
I mean, it was like. Program.
It doesn't have a Texas accent and then it didn't have the
Spanish accent 'cause. That's so I don't fall with it.
I, I played around with it a little bit and then I, I was, I
was swapping back and forth between reading and, and and

(53:06):
using the, the app 'cause like Iand I was having fun with the
app just like playing around with it, but like the nuance and
like the reason why I think. It's not there.
Chad GBT or whatever is nowhere near there ready is that's
right. These guys are actors, you know,
like Armand Schultz, Ray Porter,our favorite, George Waddell,

(53:28):
You know, they just add, add, add so much nuance to the to the
story. I like that guy that you found
you, or at least you shared. I don't know if you're going
with him, but that that one. 'S I am, yeah.
Eric Priesman is his name, or I think it's Priesman is how you
pronounce it. Yeah.
He's a retired California Highway Patrol.
And I, I said, how did you get into this?

(53:50):
And he's like, well, he's he waslike the the guy you talk to
when you've at the end of his career anyway, when you first
walk through the door and he kind of takes, you know, takes,
you know, people and they'll just walk in or, or he's the not
going to call it a receptionist,whatever the whatever the
Highway Patrol calls the person they first see when you walk in.
He said so many people said, man, you have a great voice, you
should try this. Wow.

(54:12):
And he has a phenomenal voice and he's done 50 some odd books
so far and he's retired and young man, you know, probably
mid 50s or so. And yeah, I I really did like
him and I went through a lot of different, you know, there's
some really good websites out there to for people who are very
good what they do. But just the inflection like

(54:33):
Chris you were talking about on the AI models and I, I listened
to some of those in the beginning too.
And there's a couple of them. You know, you can download part
of your book in there and it'll read it.
But the inflections, because to me, voice actors reflection
means a ton. I mean, where they can in the

(54:54):
chapter perfectly or the the differences in cadence in the
words and knowing when to pause just a little bit.
It's it's a talent. So I actually try to myself.
Really. Oh, really?
I'm like, I've got all this equipment, I know how to read
it. Could work. 4 sentences.

(55:16):
I made it 4 sentences. I don't like quit.
Not a chance. It's because you don't.
You don't realize how many timesyou like that Are those those
things? And it's hard to read aloud and
make it sound like you're not 1/3 grader.
I mean, it's it's a talent. So I would gain respect for

(55:38):
those guys a great deal. And yeah, I like, I like Erica
Lock. I think he's going to do a great
job and I'm excited to get it out looking.
Probably he is conservatively sane mid August, but it could be
as early as 1st of August. So.
That's pretty quick. Nice.
Yeah, I thought it was really quick too.

(56:00):
What was pub day like for you? Probably something we should
have started with. What did it feel like that day?
You, you put this thing out there, just did you celebrate
that? Were you nervous?
It was almost it's about damn time.
So I'm I'm going to be I don't want to throw anybody under the
bus. But I mean, I hired like kind of

(56:21):
alluded to earlier, I hired a company to help me publish the
book because I didn't know what I was doing.
I had truly had zero idea and paid him a lot of money to do it
and getting answers out of them was like it was literally like
pulling teeth. I finished writing the book on

(56:42):
my way to Vegas January 13th. I was completely done and it
took till June the 18th to get it published and that made no
sense to me whatsoever. And it was 1 issue after another
one issue after another, one issue after another and then
going dark for a week and 1/2. So it was almost like I, it

(57:07):
didn't feel like a celebration because I had so much not anger
built up, just frustration builtup.
But then I flushed that. I'm like, you know what ship has
sailed. It is what it is.
It's out now it's time for summer.
You know, let's let's take the positives out of this.
You know, we can mark it as a asa good summer read or beach read

(57:28):
or or whatever. And then I got excited when you
see like people are actually buying it and you're in Amazon,
you know, ratings are going up and people leave reviews and
yeah, you're like, Oh my God, this is cool.
People actually are reading something.
I created it's that was then it got really exciting and you know

(57:50):
my my not motivation, but my view on this changes every hour
when Amazon releases to where your book is ranked.
You know they do that every. Hour.
So wow. Oh my God, it's down 21,000
places. Oh wait, it's up 58,000 places a
neck, you know, but you know, there's so many bugs on there.

(58:11):
It could sell 4 copies and be up100,000 places, you know, So
like I say, it's been a, it's been a real learning process.
But, but in my, my life is kind of consumed with it right now.
And you know, and my wife will come in and says, what are you
doing? You know and.
Refreshing. Yeah, just hitting this refresh
button. Sounds like me in the podcast

(58:34):
consumed by it. Yeah.
Exactly. Exactly.
Well, you guys have a great product.
Really you do. You have a fantastic product and
I'm so happy to be a part of it.Well, thank you.
Thank you for coming on. This is great.
You bet. I I think I made the #3 Brad, is
that right? I'm.
Who's Brad number? 2 they said to, but I can't put

(58:55):
myself head of Taylor, I mean. And then I thought, have you had
Messler on? No.
OK, well then. You're the number 2, Brad, that
we've had on. To come on the podcast, yes, OK
#2 Brad comes on. I'm fine going down to #3 then.
Jeez, I called you Matthew McConaughey to open and now you
want to be better than all theseother guys too?

(59:19):
I said I'm fine being 2 and. Three.
All right, all right, all right,all right.
Oh, man yeah, Brad, great book. Recoil of Justice.
Guys, if you made it through this interview and you haven't
purchased the book, what are youwaiting for?
Maybe you're waiting for the audio book.
That's. That's fine if that's the case,
but make sure you get your copy.Thoroughly enjoyed it.

(59:41):
It's a hit and maybe this is a compliment.
I would have never guessed it was a first book it did not
read. Like a debut book?
Well. Thank you.
Thank you for saying that. Actually, I didn't know it was a
debut book until you you told meon the podcast here.
So it's all right. Yeah.
Thank you that I'll take that asa huge compliment.
Again, I didn't know what I was doing, but I worked very hard at

(01:00:06):
it and, you know, I had a great good editor as well and, and.
I'm, I'm, I'm kind of overwhelmed by the comment, to
be honest with you. Thank you.
Thank you so much for saying that.
You know, as a, as a self published author, you know, we
have to, we have to be able to build readership and we have to,
you know, and you know, the, thebest way to, I think to do that

(01:00:27):
is go to my website, sign up for, you know, updates, sign up,
you know, if you don't mind putting your e-mail address in
there. I don't send a lot of emails,
you know, probably too few to behonest with you.
But go to my website, bradeldernovels.com.
Sign up for updates. You know, there's a few cool
things on there. You'll get a, a sneak peek of

(01:00:47):
the of the prologue of of Corp truth and I'll be running some
specials on probably some free downloads of the of the e-book
of of recall and then in the near future anyway.
But we, we thrive on that as an independent author, you know, we
don't have a, a publishing housewith a huge marketing team going

(01:01:07):
out there and who has a, a mountain of contacts that they
can send it out to. We build it, you know, we what
we kill, you know, and, and if anybody's interested, I'd
appreciate so much them going out and, and, and signing up.
And, and I think you, you will not be inundated with, with
emails that can assure you. Or you can follow me on

(01:01:28):
Facebook, Brad Elder novels and then Instagram Brad dot elder
dot novels. Don't judge my Instagram
account. I'm terrible again, I'm 54 years
old. Instagram was one of those.
I still don't know how to use itvery well, but but I can post a
few things and and just just to communicate with those folks who

(01:01:48):
who like either platform. Well, how about one more little
marketing push for people who'velistened this long?
We will do a Thriller Pod giveaway.
So we will purchase a copy of your book.
We will send it out to somebody,but you have to sign up for
Brad's emails. Brad Elder novels.com.
You've got to follow him on Instagram with that amazing
Instagram account he has. It's going viral.

(01:02:09):
It's it's very gripping. And you're going to have to put
in the comments on any one of our socials, Facebook,
Instagram, Twitter, the code word wild boar.
So if you listen to this episode, you got the code word
wild boar. Put that in the comments.
Sign up for Brad's newsletter and you'll have a chance to win
a copy of his book. Maybe he'll sign it for you.
I'll sign it for you too. There we go.

(01:02:30):
Absolutely. Cool.
All right. Thanks, Brad.
It's great, a lot of fun. Thank you guys so much.
Appreciate it very much and hopeto catch up with you guys again
soon. Definitely.