Dan Brown - Deception Point

"If you're not reading and re-reading Dan Brown, your missing out" - Mike of ThrillerPod.com

What a treat it is to return to a childhood favorite of mine - Dan Brown! Chris and Mike break down Deception Point - the (surprising) 3rd book by Dan Brown.

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Episode Transcript

(00:16):
Hey, guys, I'm Chris. And I'm Mike.
And welcome back to this week's No Limits the Thriller podcast.
How you doing today, Mike? I'm doing great, but we had a
little technical difficulties before recording.
Because of that, I was not able to write a Limerick.
So Chris, you got to bear with me.
Consecutive weeks in a row. We're going with AI ChatGPT

(00:40):
limericks for the night. Don't bullshit the people.
It wasn't because of the All right, let's hear it, let's hear
it, let's hear it. We did have technical
difficulties, you can't deny that.
All right, you are right of that, but the technical
difficulties were not the reasonwhy you use ChatGPT.
But anyways, let's hear it. I want to hear it.

(01:02):
You said it was great. The limericks are too good.
I just can't pass up on it. AI is just kicking our asses.
I couldn't do better than this. Can you imagine Digital
Fortress? That whole universe when that
book was written? What late 90s as his first book
thinking about? Bitcoin, right?
Like. Yeah, like less than 30 years
we're going to have cryptocurrency, you know, almost

(01:23):
replacing the US dollar, some would argue causing financial
collapses, AI and the the financial industry being what it
is. And NSA remember that book took
you into the depth of didn't they go to Fort Meade and NSA
like. Oh, yes, there's like murders.
Yeah. The tech just must be years,
like light years ahead. Crazy.

(01:45):
It's like apples and oranges trying to compare that book to
modern day technology. And it'd be so interesting to
see like what he got right even back then about what the
industry, big data industry and all this tech was going to look
like. Man, maybe we should read that
book next. You're jumping on a book before
you even give us the Limerick, though.
Yeah, yeah. Don't leave the people in
suspense, man. No, so we're covering Deception

(02:07):
Point. We are a spoiler filled podcast.
We are the after show for your favorite thrillers.
So if this is your first episodeand you have not read Deception
Point, be prepared. From this moment forward we are
spoiling the book and Chachi BT spoiled it big time with this
one. The meteor find was a fake, a
fraud for the White House to make.

(02:29):
Delta Force lied, but some stillsurvived as Pickering drowned in
the lake. Wow, it goes all the way to
that. Dude, the.
Final ending. Pickering going down with the
ship. You know, you know what's crazy
about that? We were, we were kind of talking
about this before we started recording because you said, wow,

(02:50):
this chat, ChatGPT did a really good job with this.
And it's interesting because most of the time when, when I
was doing this, when I was trying to rival you, we were
doing it on Brad's books, right?And it, it pretty much the, you
could sense that the only thing it's grabbing from is the little
blurb or anything that's out there on the Internet for it.

(03:11):
But there's not a lot with, you know, explaining the entire plot
of these thrillers. But with this one, obviously
there's been people that have talked about the ending and, and
the Pickering twist that doesn'thappen until the very end.
And so, you know, I, I think it's cool for us to dive into,
you know, some of these older books.
You know, we, we once said we wanted to do Dan Brown because

(03:33):
he's having his new book come out this year.
And it's funny because you even texted me.
You're like, man, they just don't you don't write them like
they like Dan Brown does anymore.
You know, like, and there's you even said there's something to
be said about not cranking out abook every year and like taking
your time executing. I mean, obviously we don't know

(03:56):
what what is it's secret origin or secret.
The secret of secrets is his newone, the.
Secret yeah, you know, I have noidea what that is.
I I would love to cover origin on it was it was interesting.
Definitely not as good as his like religious thrillers, but
even going back to to this one and like you said, like the

(04:17):
first Dan old Dan Brown book I had read was Digital Fortress.
Love that book. He just, I don't know, he just,
he's something special, man. He's.
Yeah. Reading this, I was trying to
figure out why I was so impressed.
And it was clearly because the the characters, the story, the
plot and this overarching theme of the possibility of

(04:39):
panspermia, you know, and life being seated on our planet and
others. And so it's like really big
questions, really awesome characters.
Everything's flowing. But then I'm also like, getting
nostalgic reading these books. In the early, you know, teens.
I was ripping through Dan Brown.Boy, I was high school, going to
college. That was also the height of my
Vince Flynn days. And in new books were coming out

(05:01):
and Mitch rap. Dan Brown is a Titan, an
absolute Titan of literature. And yet he never became one of
those authors, which was like the every year read, you know,
the, the pump out a book every year there's deadlines from the
publisher. I remember getting one of his
every 3-4 years or so, you know,so I, I just feel like there's

(05:22):
something to be said about the industry becoming this cash cow
of a character and the characterso big and sells so many books.
The publisher needs a a a book by a certain deadline and the
author knows the contract is cranking out a book a year.
I wonder if that has its limitations.
And I think Dan Brown just like far exceeds anything that could

(05:44):
be done on that schedule. Putting out masterpiece after
masterpiece. Especially if you talk digital
fortress to deception point. Was Da Vinci Code then third or
angels and demons? I thought it was angels and
demons. Angels and Demons and Da Vinci
Code, like we are just talking about absolute classics being
banged out by the same guy. This book is phenomenal and I

(06:08):
haven't read Dan Brown in quite a number of years.
I was missing out. You're missing out if you're not
reading Dan Brown and rereading Dan Brown because I knew
everything about this book from when I was, you know, 20 years
old, teenager, 16 years, whatever it was when I first
read it, and it still blew me away.
Like there were still twists andturns and maneuvers that I
didn't expect. Edge of my seat stuff.

(06:29):
It's like, I think I remember this meteor being fake.
Like, I don't think there reallywas alien life, but every little
reveal the scientific details ofwhy the meteor checks out.
How civilian scientists and NASAscientists verified I'm quite
literally on the edge of my seatwith those conversations with
Rachel Sexton being pulled in and man 'splained everything or

(06:50):
scienceplained everything. I'm edge of my seat as if this
is like the jaw-dropping actionsshoot em up scene and it's just
a conversation on an ice shelf around this meteor.
Like I had so much fun with thatand the whole team of people
explaining it. It did this this book is a wild

(07:10):
ride. And obviously we'll we'll get
into the scorecard in a little bit.
And I think, you know, at some points it just kept getting
layered and layered and layered and layered and layered.
And then, you know, even when weget towards the end, we're like,
Oh my God, like twist after twist.
And then they're on the boat andthere's a bunch of sharks below

(07:33):
them. And if they have blood and this
then then and they drop in the water and the sharks are going
to get them. But under the sharks there's a a
lot a volcano that the magma thing.
And then I don't know, like at some point, maybe it got a
little bit too much, But I will say never was I like
disappointed, like I just it wasvery propulsive.

(07:55):
And I the one thing I do think it just dragged on a little too
long. Sure, I had to make it like my
my major criticism with the bookis that like some of the stuff
could have been wrapped up, you know, maybe, maybe could have
taken out one too many things. But like, I really enjoyed,
like, the entire end scene on this cool ship.

(08:17):
I'm even, like, trying to Google, like, what the hell does
like a twin, like this potentialtwin hall research ship look
like? Yeah.
And what's really funny is that,you know, we had said we wanted
to do this book, and we had gotten it from the library a
couple months ago. And come to find out, I started
reading it. I'm like, I'm like, man, it's

(08:39):
only 6 hours long. I'm like, all right, well, I'm
reading the fact, like, maybe it's not that long of a book.
Yeah, something was just off about it.
And then I finally look it up. And because not every abridged
version like makes itself clear that it's a bridge.
Like sometimes they don't say itin the beginning, sometimes it
doesn't say it clear text on theaudible cover.

(09:01):
And then I look in the details of of what we were reading and
it sure enough, it was the abridged version.
And man, this this is the time where you do not want to read
the abridged version. No, because I I was like this,
this book sucks. Like I I that's couldn't jive
with the book. That's a shame.

(09:23):
That's a shame. They butchered it.
They cut it up. And you're right, I would agree.
Any other lesser book or lesser author, I'd be criticizing this
thing as a runaway train. Because to me, when we're on the
Mill and ice shelf leading up tothe first press conference
announcing the meteor, I was. I wanted more action on the ice

(09:44):
shelf. Yeah, I didn't want that to end.
And then we cut to Wang or Doctor Mang falling into the
thing, the algae. So it's like now we got a whole
nother angle that's intriguing. And boom, all of a sudden we're
out on the ice shelf going off to try to get this camera or
this radar detector to kind of read the tunnel.
And that's when Delta team attacks.

(10:05):
And I was like, don't take me away from this.
Everything that kept the building, I just wanted to stay
in for even longer. Not to mention when they were on
the glacier or the ice shelf andit it like heaved off and they
were floating at Oh yeah, that wrapped.
Up this way to that, Yeah, I would have lived there.
I would have stayed with that. Yeah, I would have stayed on

(10:26):
that floating iceberg with them.Now make this like a survival
tale. And it's crazy because I thought
that was going to be a major part of the action and like that
was going to become the big set action piece.
But no, you're right. We switched to the Goya, the
ship off the coast of New Jersey.
So. Well, first they get rescued by
a sub that just happened to be to be there.
Right, that's true, but she's sending out the SOS signal.

(10:48):
Right, right. And even that was explained well
about the NRO and the National Reconnaissance Office having all
these detection capabilities. And there was a plant earlier
about underwater, you know, sound detection and how every
inch of the ocean is basically covered.
And it was just insane how everything fit together.
Everything kept me interested, and it kept upping the ante.

(11:11):
Now, you're right, that runaway train maybe started getting a
little long at the very end. You know, once we're like, is it
Tench, is it Pickering? I'm also wondering the whole
time, is it the NASA administrator?
And I don't think we get closureon that, to be honest.
And then all of a sudden Tench was missing from her office.
And then Pickering was missing from his office.
I was like, who died in that Hellfire missile at the FDR

(11:33):
memorial? We thought it was Pickering.
He shows up on the chopper. Every little twist and turn from
the start had me intrigued, and even a book this long kept me
going till the very end. Incredible.
Honestly, the the thing that kept dragging me out a little
bit was Rachel's father and the the Gabrielle Ash stuff.

(11:58):
I mean, I I think you could havehad like it could have been
that, but you also could have just gotten rid of that and
everything with the president and with Pickering.
And like, you don't even you didn't really even need Sexton
involved with the scandal, right?
Like. You needed an anti NASA voice.

(12:19):
You needed an existential threatto NASA, and that was him with
privatizing space, that whole angle.
Right, take it for what I understand that.
I don't know, I, I feel like maybe you could have just made
that someone within the administration trying to, you
know, dive on the administrationfrom within, which actually kind

(12:40):
of Tensh is an interesting character, dude, she is.
Oh yeah, IIA 100% until it's announced that Pickering is the
one the the controller walking out of the helicopter.
I thought it was her. I was I thought it was her he he
was perfect at, you know, placing those you know, as most

(13:04):
good to their authors are placing those duplicitous
comments, you know, having her say things that once you realize
it, you know, means two different things.
You know, you just. The head.
Fake. Yeah.
You're convinced that she is in leagues with the NASA
administrator. They're the ones doing it.

(13:25):
You know, either either she's the controller.
He's the controller because he'sthe one who keeps on, you know,
he they keep on saying he has this military background,
background at the Pentagon, like, so it makes sense, right?
Every everything makes sense. And then for it to be Pickering,
I was like. Damn.
Yeah, he also, in the very opening, sets himself up as an

(13:47):
absolute force, like no one in the government at any level
talks down to him. You know, they're all afraid of
him. He knows all the secrets of
Washington. He knows all the insider
hardball. He's he plays it better than
anybody. What's his nickname again?
Oh, man, he had a good one. He even sells you on how much

(14:08):
he's willing to protect Rachel. He's like, don't answer to
anybody but me or the president.He goes, don't let anybody jerk
you around over there. One call to me, I'll take care
of it. He even stands up to the
president over it. He he's like coming out as like
big Papa bear for Rachel. And in the end, when all that's
undone, when he's on the chopperand it's revealed as controller,

(14:29):
that's a big twist. But there's so many other twist.
I mean, I agree that I thought Tench was the bad one, but how
much did you like Tench when shewas battling Senator Sexton in
the the TV show, in the interview?
Like I was almost rooting for, Iwas like, this is crazy.
How did I describe her? I wrote down something a chain

(14:51):
smoking because I was kind of brought into her when she took
down Sexton on TV. She set him up.
She got the NASA line out of himthat he was willing to cut
funding for NASA. She played that her cards
perfectly in that. So I was like, OK, she's this
political operative and I was kind of liking her knee, the
president at the time. So it's kind of on her, her

(15:12):
side, even though she was crazy.Oh, I wrote.
I imagine Tensch as a chain smoking Cruella de Ville, like
the polar opposite of Susie Wiles.
Just this tall, lanky, squirmy, black and white hair, chain
smoking lady in the president's ear.
You know, that's how I picture Tensch.
Yeah, his nickname is the the Quaker.

(15:35):
That's because he wore plain back suits.
But to me that almost had like adouble meaning like, oh, sure,
he is a force like he is, he's an earthquake.
He he can also. Send that, he makes people quake
in their boots. Right, exactly that was.
Part of the name, yeah. Double entendre, Yeah.
Between tension, Pickering and the whole, like, playing them
against each other in the reader's mind was brilliantly

(15:57):
executed. Even though you may not think
so. I do think the Sexton Gabrielle
Ashe storyline, yeah, maybe played out too much.
I bought into how it aligned with the main plot and how her
and Rachel had to team up in theend.
And by the way, the press conference at the end when she
switches the folders even twist going down to like the last
final pages that are that I'm buying into.

(16:19):
I just thought all the differentstorylines are hitting, not to
mention the science of it all. I really want to talk to you
about how you were feeling during that opening scene when
she's being brought in, flown onthis fighter jet, debriefed by
the president, and then boom, she's inside this bubble on the
ice shelf talking to the scientists.
When we meet Taland and Corky, that is an absolute trip.

(16:39):
And that is a riot of a team. I, I love those guys as well.
Everything is just singing. Yeah, I know.
Even down to the scientists, we lose like, pretty early on, you
know, this, this the main character, you know, falls in
the woman. What is it her name?
Nora. Yeah, she was a whip.
I like how, you know, he he putsthese different personalities

(17:03):
and you quickly like I was bought in with Corky, like at
the very end, I was like, no, hecan't die like everyone else.
I kind of was like, all right, you know, like that's fine, But
I I really did not want Corky todie.
He's like, you know, the comet relief.
I was waiting for him to come back with the speedboat.
I was waiting. I knew he was going to do
something. I thought for sure he was going

(17:25):
to, like, save the day, you know?
I mean, he did like, you know, calling for the rescue.
By calling in the radio on the Coast Guard, I thought he was
just going to like ram the boat to like knock the Delta guys off
or something like that. Right.
That's how they would do it in the movie, yeah.
Yeah, for sure, for sure. Or he would come in when she's
sinking in the in the Triton submarine and he would like ram
it or something to like prop it up from underneath or whatever.

(17:46):
But that wouldn't be in Corky's nature.
That would be in Tolin's nature as he's written, right?
Right. And Tolland does do it, you
know, He fights off the Delta dude.
Oh, he's the spear with the shotgun shell.
He takes off the guy's foot. Dude, that was sick.
That was sick dropping into the,the sub, the submarine to like
grab D2 like, yeah. And then at the very end fig

(18:12):
like, like you said, Macgyveringit to figure out, oh, like, you
know, put pressure like it's designed to go out where like
you're not designed to go out where it's like the it's the
same force. I don't know.
Everything about that final sequence was riveting.
There are multiple, you know, pretty set action because I, I
think like the the beginning oneon the ice shelf, pretty

(18:36):
amazing. And then once we get back to I,
I guess it's only two. It's it's very long apart
because there's a lot in between, but there's like 2 main
confrontations right? 2 main confrontations like you,
you said these big set action pieces and they both work, but I
did like fulfiller in between toexplain who's doing what and how

(18:57):
the pieces are getting put together.
And I think there's a lot of suspense built into the little
things of who knows what information, who's talking to
who, you know Gabrielle Ash eavesdropping on the senator's
conversation, the guard outside his office or his home letting
letting her in. There's a lot of these little
suspense scenes, but yet nothingcompares to the Ice shelf and

(19:18):
the Goya. Those two scenes and after the
ice shelf thing when they were attacked by Delta, hiding behind
the sled, and then all of a sudden Tolland again.
Macgyver's like that parachute, right?
Almost like a parachute to blow.The Mylar balloon, yeah.
The Mylar balloon for scientifictesting that he uses to blow
them across the ice shelf. And then it it, I was like, how

(19:41):
do you top that? This is so early in the book.
I can't believe there's this much time left.
No idea how you're going to evencome close to that of an awesome
action sequence. And then the Goya ship did just
enough, maybe too much. There was a almost too many
moving pieces on that ship. The shark water, you know, the
rescue sub. Oh, and then the claw, right?
The claw that he grabs the deltaoperator with.

(20:02):
And then the Pickering reveal and and Pickering picks up one
of the machine guns and he's shooting at him.
And then he has to go swimming in the shark infested waters.
And then Rachel's going to die. Almost a little too too much
packed into that one scene, but it it at least did enough to
hold up to the earlier action which I thought was better and
enjoyed more. So I was ready to be
disappointed with whatever then the next or second-half action

(20:25):
scene is and I really wasn't disappointed.
So I think it held its own. Yeah.
And I think like everything that's in between or like the
quiet parts, they're all, they're all the times where
they're, you know, trying to figure out like, how does this
meteor make sense? Or in the beginning, like, what

(20:46):
are we actually looking at? Right?
Like, so it's, it's the slow reveal using scientific
techniques, scientific language coming out through scientists or
through a, you know, what is she?
She's a, you know, an intelligence analyst.

(21:06):
That part is needed because I felt like if if it was just the
full throttle action that those two main pieces have like the
book would just be freaking chaotic man.
Sure. Yeah, you talk about you.
Needed all that. Essentially we had sharks with
lasers on their on their heads, like circling a volcano.
Sharks with freaking lasers on their head.

(21:29):
No, all the other stuff checked out and was just as intriguing.
And you're right, if it wasn't, I don't know if action would be
enough to carry the entire book.It's really good and it doesn't
enough. But I think the book shines with
just the suspense of it all because even like you said,
those slower moments are those conversations between other
characters not related to the action pieces.

(21:52):
I'm still edge of my seat wondering is, is this the guy
like the NASA administrator? Is he the one who did it?
And then even having to find this Harper character with the
pods, the satellite detection system.
So like everything that's not even the main action is still
really well done. There's so much you could forget
in this book. It's so jam packed.
And what's impressive is it all checks out, like that Harper guy

(22:15):
claiming he was sick during his press conference, but really he
was forced by the administrator to lie that he fixed the
software in the detection system.
Oh, and, and the way it circles back to the opening scene,
because that's a great way to bring you into this Arctic kind
of setting, is when they pick upthe guy with his sled dogs and

(22:36):
then they push him out into the crevasse.
You kind of lose sight of that as a, as a really gripping
little scene. But when it comes back around
that because the pod system wasn't up and running to detect
the meteorite, they needed a fall guy, right?
And they, they pick this random,random guy living up there in
the Arctic, said there was a communication from him that he

(22:57):
found a meteor, use that as the pretense to direct pods to go
find it. It all checked out, even little
things, little plants like that that I had forgotten that I
liked in the moment. Later on had a pay off.
And then the small details like the ticking grandfather clock in
the office giving it away on thephone.
And that's interesting, with Ashand Sexton holding back from

(23:18):
each other. True.
You know, you know, each of those characters has more cards
than they're playing and they'rethey're trying to be sly.
I thought they're a little back and forth was was equally as
fun. So the science is working for
me. The action is working for me,
the plots working for me. Dan Brown is just and this is
second book. I think like that is just.

(23:40):
Yeah, You know, I think we messed up.
We said we wanted to cover his his first novel, but his first
novel was digital for. So the way it goes, it goes
digital fortress, deception point and then angels and
demons. Angels and demons.
So he writes Digital Fortress in1998, this in 2001, and then

(24:01):
Angels and Demons is in 2000. Oh, so no, that's in between.
No angels and demons came out before this one.
Yes, so it goes Digital Fortress, angels and demons and
then Deception point, and then two years later Da Vinci Code,
and then six years later Lost Symbol, another six years

(24:23):
Inferno, another six years origin, and now it's been 8
years between origin and secretive secrets.
Wow. Yeah, so I mean, he's like any
other author in the beginning where they're they're forced to.
I mean, look, look at Harry Potter, right.
In the beginning, she was cranking out one book every

(24:45):
year. And then finally she she broke
the mold, right. She pushed back and told him
like, hey, I need time. I mean, and then the same thing
happened with George RR Martin and he's still writing his his
last two books. So you don't want to be on like
that side of it. But I do think there is
something to, you know, take in a little bit of time and and

(25:05):
really trying to craft like thatexcellent book.
I, I I don't know. Dude, I'm shocked.
That this is technically his third.
This is his third book. Wow, I had that all wrong in my
mind. You know why?
I think if I recall, when The DaVinci Code blew up, you know it
was the talk of the town, right?It was in the headlines, it was

(25:26):
controversial, it was everything.
I think I then went back and read Angels and Demons.
Yeah, I. Feel like I read it later.
And it was the second movie. And it was the second movie.
That's another thing that that screws people up.
I think Da Vinci Code got so bigthat people then came to Angels
and Demons after reading Da Vinci Code because it was in the

(25:47):
zeitgeist at the time. But I remember reading Digital
Fortress, Digital Fortress and Deception Point before I read
either of those two. That's shocking to think Angels
and Demons is a second book because that one, like this one,
is also really long and very complex.
Yeah, that that's crazy that those three books were written

(26:08):
in. 3-4 years. A three-year span, like that's,
that's crazy, dude. That's wild.
That's next level. Because this book's not short.
Angels and Demons is not short and the same thing did it a
fortress. Yeah, Da Vinci Code is
interesting because I remember it being narrower and thinner,
thinking of like the hardbacks that I was carrying around in my

(26:29):
younger years. And I remember it was like
almost a slimmed down version ofthese other bigger stories that
he had written. It's like the pithier version of
that. And that's the one that went
viral, you know? Right.
Also because the very hot buttonissue of Oh yeah, Jesus's
family. But yeah.
I'll get so I'm on Wikipedia. I'm looking at the 1st edition

(26:54):
cover of Deception Point, which you do not have a little little
pre spoiler of a pod you do not have on our.
I mean it's really hard dude. You mentioned that there's over
200 covers of this book. Yeah, but guess who has the
front page? The cover page blurb for

(27:16):
Deception Point. Who is it?
Vince motherfucking plan No. Are you serious?
Oh, I see, he says. Dan Brown writes a rocket fast
thriller with enough twists and surprises to keep even the MO.
I can't. And then it gets hard to read
because I'm I'm blurring it up. But yeah.

(27:38):
Vince Flynn, author of Separation of Powers.
Oh man, they went with separation of power.
Wow. And that's, I guess, that that
must have been his most recent book.
Yeah, at the time, right. So he was already, he had a few
books under his belt already. Wow, that is a good cover too.

(27:58):
Oh man, I went with the Goodreads ones and whatever
Goodreads had on their first page because yeah, Goodreads is
like 256 editions of deception. I'm like oh jeez, I should have
went with Google because I'm already seeing 3 covers here
that I like on Google. The original man that takes you
right to the ice shelf right in that Dome.
That that is exactly what I was picturing.

(28:18):
Almost looks like a moon base. It does and you get this Is that
Is that a a sub above it or justlike some wind?
It's kind of like maybe both like in the in the sky is the
dark space. I see.
I see a little bit outline of like what looks like maybe a
submarine, but I think it's justsupposed to be the wind.
They they mentioned that like crazy wind.

(28:42):
Right the catabatic winds. The catabatic winds all right,
in honour of the Mill and Ice Shelf.
I'm drinking Canadian beer tonight so.
Oh, there we go. I'm in Rochester, NY this week,
so we drank a lot of Molson and a lot of the bad blue because
I'm, I'm, I'm pretty close to the to the border.

(29:02):
So I got I got Tim Horton's thismorning for breakfast too.
Nice. You want to get into the
scorecard on this one. I I think we're going to be
gearing up for some high numbers.
Let's do it, man. Let's do it, I think.
This might feel good. Well, is there anything we.
Have changed. Anything you wanted to talk

(29:23):
about? I I really kind of wanted to
pick your brain on the science of it all.
Did did you enjoy those early conversations about is this
evidence of panspermia? That blew my mind when we were
talking about that. I mean, I was bought in to the
idea that this asteroid could have been, you know, real like,

(29:44):
because yeah, everything that I'm, I'm a biologist.
I'm, I'm not a yeah, I'm, I'm a biologist in terms of like
bacteria. If anything, life on another
planet will look more like the stuff that I study then you know
what people are mentioned. But yeah, I, I definitely

(30:05):
everything that I've read or, orseen through my various, you
know, personal experiences diving into this kind of stuff
mainly, you know, Carl sang in or Neil deGrasse Tyson, that
kind of stuff. Oh also, I immediately thought
of Neil deGrasse Tyson when theymentioned.
Talent, Michael. Talent, talent like 100%, not in

(30:29):
terms of appearance or, you know, like, but just this, this
idea of this physicist who has risen to this celebrity.
Yeah, of course. Yeah, his status.
Or or Carl Sagan. I guess you could do Carl Sagan.
I was thinking Bill Nye. I was also thinking Bill Nye.
Oh, true. Yeah, because Bill Nye has that
like suave too. Yeah, he has the TV personality.
I was kind of like the brain andthe communication method of a

(30:51):
Neil deGrasse Tyson with the Bill Nye TV personality of it
all that that's kind of where I was settling.
Or like a mic, a micro, but really.
Right, right. The micro of science and yeah,
space. Yeah, you know, anyways, that's
exactly. What I was to the back to the

(31:13):
science. Yeah.
No, I I I think the biggest thing that he pointed was that
most people think that life on other planets are going to be
not like what we see here. But I think most people are in
the actual communities are convinced that it would be more
like us than it would be not like us.

(31:35):
You know, there's only an infinite amount of you know,
obviously we've we've been driven towards these thousands
of years. I mean, sure, there could be
differences, but main one being like different planets have
different gravities. So that's going to allow for it
makes sense for why you could have these insects that could

(31:56):
grow to be huge and and that kind of stuff without.
Some skeletons. Yeah, it it, I was bought into
that like nothing, you know, andagain, I'm not I'm not an expert
in this stuff. I'm sure if someone's to come at
me, but that's that's just something I've never been read.
I've never read a Dan Brown bookwhere I've, you know, questioned

(32:18):
that that kind of stuff. Like I just I take it if at face
value and since, all right, thisis a thriller, he doesn't get
anything blatantly, egregiously wrong.
You know, like, it's like The Martian, you know, like one of
the things I loved about that, that book was how much research
was put into that and how believable it is, you know,

(32:42):
exactly. It's the same thing here.
Like, and then and then to not only build all that up to make
you buy in to the fact that holyshit, panspermia, Israel, this
is proof extra terrestrial life.And then to have to then tear it
all down, but you tear it all down systematically using

(33:04):
science again. Yeah, that was correctly.
That was smart because that initial conversation they lay it
out with like, here is the threeproofs of why this is an actual
asteroid. You buy it.
Does the evidence check out? Yes.
The analyst checks out, the reader checks out.
So we all agree there's a space rock, right?
There's a meteorite probably this time period, probably been

(33:24):
here this many years or whatever.
It's like Corky established all that, you know, and he's going
back with Tolland. So there was that Comic Relief
during that conversation as well, especially with that Lady
boss running the show up there. Like they're having incredible
interactions and the science is checking out on top of it and
it's building up the science. Then boom, they drop the

(33:46):
fossils. And I had the same reaction as
you. It was like I was a little
concerned that the fossils looked granted they're bigger in
scale than creatures that we have.
But when they're explaining likeit's similar to these bugs and
these insects, and here's why space life might be similar to
these bugs, something rubbed rubbed me the wrong way.

(34:06):
And I'm real curious if that waspurposeful by Dan Brown, because
I'm thinking like you're thinking far in life, You know,
if we find it on another planet might be like bacteria, viruses,
cells, amoeba, whatever, like these very simplified organisms,
if you will. I wasn't sure it would look
exactly like our bugs and insects.
I was like, I was not buying that for good reason because it

(34:28):
wasn't true, right? And then I was also thinking
oceans. I was like, I know oceans have
like bizarre stuff and they're unexplored.
And we're finding these like crazy creatures down there that
we would have never thought are of this planet.
Like you could Google like crazyocean creatures and it looks
like aliens. So it's like I there was
something not sitting right withme.
All the other signs checked out,but that one piece of it wasn't

(34:50):
sitting right with me. And so as it's also, it was
built up and then as it's being broken down, like you said, with
the scientific evidence, and that scientific evidence to
break it down is part of the adventure.
All the adventures that Sexton and Tolland and Corky are on are
in search of that next little nugget, you know?
So I really love the signs beingbuilt up, being built, tore

(35:10):
down. I thought that was so much fun.
And to integrate that seamlesslywith a plot that's super
complex. And I don't think you can find
any plot holes. And if you can, they're very few
and they're very minor. There's no glaring plot holes.
And that's a task to combine that with such good science and
feel like you're reading something like The Martian that
that came to mind for me as well.

(35:32):
Impressive, really impressive. So I think in the scorecard, the
science of it all in many, many books could be a Ding.
In this one, I think it's. A plus.
You know, it's also interesting that he decides to make Tolland
a sea expert. You know, I, I, he's an ocean
oceanographer, you know, documentarian, you know, someone

(35:55):
who's knows all the stuff and, and to place, you know, he could
have been any other kind of documentary scientist, but to
have him be, you know, and then to place her fear around water,
in fact, that they have to go, you know, onto water.
Like it, it kind of all makes sense.
And you know, it's like, oh, that's, that's an interesting
like little wrinkle because that, oh, that's actually where

(36:19):
this rock came from. It's you know, we and then we
have both the juxtaposition of ice and then magma and, you
know, we're just, we're going a full circle here.
It's it's intense and it's pretty cool just to to see how
it comes together in the end. And that's why if if we talk
action and suspense, the two setaction pieces were so good, but

(36:42):
on their own, to carry a novel of this length, I'd have to be
like an 8 or so. The thing is, the suspense of
all those other storylines we just talked about make up those
two points. So like you could, I could see
somebody going 10 here, even though there's not a ton of
action sequences, but every little sequence has suspense.

(37:05):
So I could see somebody going 10, but I'm just going to go 9.5
because we only had two big action pieces.
They were amazing, but suspense really carried the day.
I think you the suspense wins out over the action for me.
So 9.5. Yeah, it's like a, it's like a 5
for suspense and like a four point. 5 for action Yeah, yeah,
exactly, exactly. Now, like for for plot, I don't

(37:34):
know, do I dig in here or do I dig in the buy in with the the
fact that it was just a little long in the tooth.
And even though I love that action sequence at the very end,
you know, I did feel like the sharks had lasers on their
heads. And you know, it was, it was
kind of getting a little egregious, you know, and then to

(37:56):
have damn, a freaking Hellfire missile being shot at in in the
middle of FDR. Like, true that that's true and
releasing the magma being shot under the water.
Oh, yeah. And then not only that do we
have the sharks, but then we nothave to worry about TAGMA.
And then we had to we get rescued with this helicopter
from this vortex in this, you know, like you have skill.

(38:18):
I'm, I'm imagining like silent cribbed is mixed with sharks
with lasers mixed with Delta force operators.
You know it's a. Lot.
It's a lot. Throw in Thor and you know,
Galantis Galactus and you got like, you know, I don't know.
And then? Quite literally do.
I didn't plot or buy in for that.
Yeah. And quite literally, with an

(38:40):
Osprey, you pick up all that action and just simply move it
into DC in the middle of a pressconference with a presidential
candidate. With the monument, it's like,
how did we go from one to the other?
Right, all right. I think you can Ding it a little
in plot, but you also Ding it inbuy in if as you're reading the
book, those things were holding you up.
That's what I would do. I Ding it in plot and I double

(39:02):
Ding it a little bit and buy an if when you read the book that
was causing you frustration because for me it wasn't.
It was flowing. All right, yeah, I'm going to
go, I don't know, 8.5 on plot and I'm going to go like a four
on buy in. OK, OK, yeah, I see what you're
saying. So for you would make sense, but

(39:23):
for me that's pretty low becauseI I got to go 9 on plot.
The one point is, is the length that one too many twists and
turns like the roller coaster ride stop being fun because we
just didn't need that many loop de loops.
They're like, OK, it's over yet.I'm ready to go off now, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. But when I'm on that roller

(39:43):
coaster, I was I was in like thefirst few loop de loops had me
so so in. I didn't start feeling that
fatigue until very late in the game.
So I I think I can go up a little more 4.5 on buy in
because while reading the book Iwas loving it bad.

(40:04):
Guys. Bad guys.
I mean, can I feel like Pickering?
I counted as a good guy for 95% of the book.
And then have him be the the badguy.
Yeah, Sexton. Yeah, so.
I'm going to Ding, I'm going to Ding the Delta Force guys a
little bit. I, I didn't love them.

(40:27):
I thought that having them be anonymous was kind of weird.
I don't know. They're taking like these, first
of all, they're just blindly executing US civilians.
Like, yeah, they're hench men. I would rather than just been,
yeah, I would rather them be like private contractors than to
be Delta Force operators. I agree with that.

(40:48):
I would have, I would have believed them more if they were
doing it for money than if they were doing it for country.
I think I agree. Maybe that's why I'm digging by
in a little bit too. So I I, I don't know, Sexton was
just like, he's supposed to be the big bad, right?

(41:10):
I guess for most of the novel, you know.
Tench, maybe for the middle partof it.
Yeah, I don't have a Pickering. Like to be his mastermind and to
have you bought in to him being a good guy.
Like damn big twist. That worked, That worked.
You're on his side mostly. You're kind of questioning Tensh

(41:33):
most of the book, so. Right, right.
I'm going to go 3.5. Yeah, that's a fair score.
And I think a big part of that has to be the Delta guys being
so flat. Now, if the book wasn't already
jam packed, I think it would work.
If you kind of make it like they're Pickerings, you know,

(41:56):
his boys, like they've been in the trenches.
They'll they'll go to the ends of the earth for this guy.
You know, he's the Quaker, right?
Like this, This is his team. But that wasn't built up.
There was a, there was an intentional choice to keep them
flat and anonymous and just havethem be The Dirty hench men,
like have them be Doctor Evil's people.
So because that choice was made,it hurts the book.

(42:18):
But again, if you went too deep,if they had backstories, if they
had a connection with Pickering,if we found out why they'd, you
know, go fight to their death for him, maybe then that would
have been an extra thing that would have made everything
complicated and convoluted. So 3 1/2, yeah, 3 1/2 is where I
got to sit too. But let me make up for that with

(42:42):
a perfect five on good guys. And I'm doing that because of
the scientists. I'm doing it because of Talon
and Corky and the way they played off each other, played
off each other with Rachel, played off each other with their
their boss on the ice shelf. Even up until the last scene
when Rachel is trying to get into the damn Lincoln bedroom
and the Secret Service agent hasto distract Corky.

(43:04):
You know what? That Secret Service agent, she
saved the day she got Talon laid.
So I'm going 5 out of five just for her.
No, I think you're you're 100% right, like just the the the
cast of characters that Brown establishes and, you know, just

(43:25):
to give, you know, even I thought that Gabriel Ash was
interesting, you know, just to have her there as this, you
know, foil at times for Sexton in the end proved to be his
downfall. You know, the president was very
interesting, you know, and even like in retrospect, I, I guess

(43:49):
what's her name? Oh, wow.
I can't the raspy Chickle I thought was the tench Tench.
I I, you know, she turns out to be, she was actually on on the
side of, I mean, yeah, she did play a role a little bit and and
she knew that NASA was lying a little bit.
But yeah, it was all for I guessshe's doing her job.

(44:09):
She's. Protecting the president,
Protecting the office? Yeah, winning elections.
Right, yeah, no, the, the, the, but the, the scientists just
just scream. Rachel Sexton, Very good lead
character, getting scientists, getting mansplained like the end
the entire time and just, you know, taking it and then shoving
it back like. She puts it to the next level.

(44:31):
Exactly. She shoves it back in their
face. She she like, she raises
everything they're giving her, you know, exponentially and then
throws it right at them. Yeah, dude.
Setting. I think I have to go perfect 5 I
think. I was.
I was going to say that too. About the ice shelf, the sea,

(44:54):
even some of the DC White House stuff or even in like the press
rooms when we're doing those interviews and things or even
how it's described at all the press conferences when they're
describing each press conference, because there's like
3 or 4. I'm there.
I'm, I'm inside DC, I'm, I'm, you know, inside the Beltway.
It's happening. We're game on.
Same thing with the ice shelf. And the ice shelf to me is

(45:17):
screams that cover you found that first edition original
printing plus all the other covers.
I just think, wow, Dan Brown establishes himself as a boss of
painting a panorama of these amazing locations.
And I think the other reason whyI, I love reading Dan Brown

(45:38):
novels, especially like via audiobook, is I think he has a
way with words, even for the most simplest thing, like the
hallway entrance to Sexton's apartment.
Like it's so vivid that while I'm listening to the narrator,
you know, or if I was reading it, I completely imagine it in

(46:00):
my head. Agreed, you know.
I imagine Gabriel. Yeah, I remember.
I imagine Gabriel's ash, you know, her suspenseful meandering
through the NASA headquarters totry to get up to to talk to the
the leader of pods or yeah, likeyou said, when she's in the
office and she sneaks in and thegrandfather clock and, you know,

(46:22):
typing in the password like all of that is, it's so descriptive,
not heavy-handed, but you know, very lively.
Like it's just it. It's very well executed.
I can't agree more. It's and it's a different way of
describing all these places. It and there was a chapter that
opened up. It was maybe that end sequence

(46:45):
after everything happens at the press conference, you know,
Gabrielle and and Rachel together save the day by
bringing down the senator. A really nice bait and switch
there with the envelopes. Even after that.
And it's dragging on too long with all these chapters.
He opens a chapter with just like it was a cool, crisp day as
the leaves were falling off the trees, like one of these very

(47:06):
like Blase way of writing an opening to a chapter that seems
kind of flat or dull, but he just nails it like he just does
it right. So like even like basic language
describing like a setting of a tree or in a park or where they
are, it's still done at at like a very good level.
I think I said to you in a text,Let's see if I can find that.

(47:28):
So he's a Craftsman. He's an artisan of words.
A Dan Brown is doing something so different than these
run-of-the-mill pump out a book.Let me type.
How many words do I have to get to?
What's the word count? We got to make the publisher
happy. No, he's an actual.
Like, I, I just think of the wayhe writes as a way like an Amish
person builds a table. You know, it's just like.

(47:49):
Sure. It's natural.
It's and he was writing, you know, pre AI in earlier days of
the Internet, cell phones, iPhone wasn't invented.
Like fax machines play a big role in the book.
And I think there's some really nice charm about that.
And and he mastered it at the time period.

(48:09):
I don't know why. I just think of him as his like
bucolic, almost like him writingalmost screams like Gerard
Tolkien smoking a pipe and thinking about hobbits in the
ground. Like, is the way he's writing,
you know, really incredible historical, scientific action
dramas? Yeah, I I just remember, I

(48:31):
forget which book it might, it might have been origin, the most
recent one. But the way he describes this
building in Barcelona with its undulating sides, it and then I,
I immediately looked it up and I'd never seen this building
before. I know it's a famous building,
but I just, I had never seen it before.
And that was exactly what I envisioned what what he had,

(48:53):
what he had written out. And I was able to picture my
head was exactly the same building that he's describing.
Like that is, you know, hard to do, you know, like, I mean,
other than like saying it's a red, it's a red building with a,
you know, like no, like to execute it like that on paper

(49:15):
and to have your reader do it. I think it's just, you know, not
to mention the, the high stakes stuff with the mill and ice
shelf or with the boat and on the water.
It's, it's, it's from the most intense to, like you said, the
most mundane piece of it. It's it's, it's well thought
out, well crafted. Yes, and the dialogue enhances

(49:37):
it. I'm even just thinking her
banter with the fighter jet pilot who takes her out to the
ice shelf from DC when she's picked up from the White House
to go out there. I'm like, they even have some
little banter back and forth. And then when they're flying, I,
I feel like I'm in the that cockpit.
I, I'm flying with them in a fighter jet, like I'm going at

(49:57):
supersonic speeds or whatever, you know, to the middle of
nowhere. And she figures out we're going
north by looking at the waters and the landlines.
All those things are crafted so well.
So hats off to Dan. I think these scores are going
to be high. We have to wrap up with cover,
though, and it does not disappoint.
None of these disappoint. Well, maybe maybe some of the

(50:18):
foreign ones like the German one, but we're not going to talk
about that. Dude, And like, you know, the
little gravity you're going to put out that we normally put out
like it, it has some some very good ones.
There's there's some honorable mentions that, you know, we,
we've kind of brought up the if you go look up the original 1,

(50:39):
some of the other covers get getthe essence of of that one, you
know, like. Just yeah, the paperback
actually is close to that original printing, Yes, not as
good. But that's interesting having
like a, a sunrise because they mentioned that they're they're
in the land of, of total. They're, you know, obviously the
it's time of the year, it's the total dark, the reddest ones.

(51:01):
It almost seems Martian. Yeah, I guess maybe that's what
it's your, you know, deception trying to trick you.
Yeah. I don't know, I I'd rather it be
more like moonscape kind of feel.
I feel like that kind of captures what it's like being on
the ice shelves better than thisred rising sun.

(51:22):
I I don't know about that. Plus, the original is really
cool, how we have that Arctic mountain glacier with that
shining light reflecting off of it.
I feel like that really captureswhat this book feels like when
you're out on the ice shelf. Yeah, that one's very similar to

(51:42):
the audible cover that we had, except for I think the same.
It. It's the same thing, except that
below it is a sub or like a you,you see a sub right below.
It's like, yeah, just to have like those little things.
I don't know. I'm, I'm, I'm digging all of
these to capture the ice. Probably the only one I don't

(52:04):
love is the one with the wolf, because sure that is.
It's like they read the opening chapter with the the sled dogs
or whatever and they're like, ohright, it looks like a vampire
book. It looks like if they were
writing vampire love teen dramasin like the late 90s that would
be that cover. Leave it to the Germans to pull

(52:24):
that shit off. What's up with the the one next
with G? And that reminds me more of
Davinci code or yeah I saw covering.
It has to be the wrong book. That one doesn't work.
I don't know who the guy's supposed to be.
That's got to be some international Lost in
Translation stuff. But H actually is funny because

(52:47):
it might be better than the original.
AH, honestly, if I got to say H might be my winner for covers, I
almost wish it's it's almost as good and it's very similar to
the original hardback cover A, but it might be just a tad
cooler even with that streak of light coming down from the top.
Echoing of like the tunnel like that could be under the iceberg

(53:08):
actually the tunnel that goes up.
So I think H is a big winner forme.
You know, I don't even mind E Yeah, with the Capitol building
and some ice, you know, knowing that the meteor.
Yeah. Yeah, it's OK.
I don't think I like how close the capital is to the ice, like
sitting on top of it, just a little too much overlap.

(53:30):
But. I don't know dude, I like all
these covers. I think I can go 4.5.
Yeah, I'm with you. I'm a four and a half, easily
all. Right, Mike, what is your free
space? That, man, there's so much you

(53:51):
can go with. I, I think I have to go with the
science of it all. When Rachel Sexton is just
brought into this world, this thing is dropped in her lap and
she is just like on a whirlwind tour to get pulled in to talk
to, you know, the president, then the NASA director and then
the scientist. And it's almost like Robert

(54:13):
Langdon, right? This is a trope, Dan Brown, of
pulling them out of the normal world, shocking their reality
with some massive truth bomb that they have to, you know,
confront and contemplate. Doing that with Rachel Sexton
was a blast. So I think from the moment she's
reassured by the president all the way up to when she's
flabbergasted seeing the meteor and the moment she realizes, OK,

(54:37):
it's a meteor, big deal, we havea ton of them.
When she sees the fossil and sherealizes, right?
Oh shit, this is alien life. I felt I was just as captivated
as she was holding that that meteorite piece.
So I got to go with that whirlwind of a beginning, and
when we're first introduced to the scientist, I was having a

(54:58):
blast. Nice.
Yeah, I'm just going to give another five points to the the
Gorky. Oh, OK, OK, I.
Thought you were going to go with the author as you do, you
know, 9 times out of 10. No, I just, I thought, you know,
throwing in the Comic Relief, this this book needed it

(55:19):
because, you know, with it's, it's very heavy at times, you
know, heavy with science. I, I, I just think having yeah,
I, I feel like Dan Brown typically has one of these
characters that's going to and Ijust connected with him.
I I thought it was funny, like at the very end, have him be on
himself, that that's what saves him from the sharks.
It just was just icing on the cake.

(55:40):
I agree a lot, a lot of good shoes him, but I just I wanted
to shout out that one more time so.
I agree. And you know, an honourable
mention that really should be upthere is the first action
sequence when they go out and get blasted by the Delta team
and then escape. Oh damn, that's got those.
Weapons like they're able to craft like yeah, put ice of snow

(56:05):
in a, in a, in a rifle and shootice bullets.
That was insane. That was sick.
That was that was really sick. There's so many cool improvised
weapons. Another thing that Dan Brown is
just like hitting on just hitting good stuff.
Fun book I we've recently got into Steve Berry.

(56:27):
Now we're hooked on him. I'm absolutely hooked on Dan
Brown. And with only like less than 10
books, I mean, we could cover them all theoretically over the
next few months. But yeah, we might want to keep
going because this book is so good.
Everything this guy writes is gold.
I might have already started rereading Digital Fortress,

(56:47):
especially because the at the end of the audio book it LED
into it and I already own a copyof Digital Fortress so.
Oh, nice. Hey, I'd be down.
So that leaves you with the 46 and Mia 45.
Barry. Great book, very good scores.
Very good. Very good scores.

(57:08):
All right, what do we know what we're doing next time?
I don't know exactly. We got a lot coming up though
with Dark Wolf, the Terminalist TV show coming out real soon, so
that's going to keep us busy. In terms of books though, what
else did we have on the table onthe docket?
We also have to start reading Denied Access.
We got our copy of the new MitchRap book so.

(57:28):
Dude started. I've read the first chapter and
all right, boy, oh boy, you got like you guys are in or a treat.
Oh, we said we were going to read origin.
We're going to go deception point to origin.
We. Didn't want to do origin that
way. Get us ready for Secret of
Secrets. I mean we could sub out origin
and go right to for. Something else.

(57:49):
Because we did. Early Dan Brown.
Something else? Yeah, I think our idea was do
early Dan Brown and then do a modern Dan Brown to get ready
for Secret of Secrets. I don't know.
I'm kind of itching to do his earlier work.
Still, though. Like angels and demons.
I know digital. Fortress angels and demons.
Yeah, I do have to. Say The Lost Symbol and Inferno
for me were not my favourites. They were good, but I don't

(58:14):
think there's anything like these first four books that he
wrote. You know, this was crazy.
I think the lost symbol is my favorite.
What? No.
Yes, I love it. I know.
Far my least favorite. I know a lot of people did not
like it. I love that book.
I was really upset when Ron, RonHoward was going to, they were

(58:38):
going to make a movie out of it and then he decided to scrap it
and then that's when they decided to move to Inferno.
Deeply disappointed with that movie.
That was awful. Oh, they actually made that new
movie. I didn't even see it with Tom.
Hanks done. Yeah with Tom Hanks.
It was not worth a watch becausethey completely changed the
story they like. Although I don't blame them

(58:59):
because when I was reading Inferno, I got to be honest, I
was kind of done with this wholespoilers, you know, kill half
the earth, or at least I know it's reproduction.
Make make people infertile so the population goes down.
This whole idea of Malthus, the Malthusian principle, I was so
done with that. Especially considering what's

(59:19):
his name, Gauntlet Infinity Gauntlet guy.
Kill all the people. Let the earth restore itself.
Let nature have balance. People are bad, lower the
population. I have debunked that line of
arguing so much that when another story gives me oh I'm a
villain who just wants to have less people on earth so nature
is healthier give me a break. I'm so over the population

(59:42):
thing. I don't want to see it in books,
movies, stories. I don't want dumb idiots on the
Internet and Twitter trolls arguing about Oh well people are
bad for the earth we need to have less people.
I'm sick of that argument. So as soon as that's what
inferno became I was like I'm done with this shit.
So anyway that's my rant. Rant over.
Hello. There's this one video where
it's like Dennis, he's talking to his, you know, hench men, but

(01:00:07):
they're kind of like talking back to him.
It's like, hey, boss, so with the Infinity Gauntlet, you can
just snap anything into existence.
What if we just doubled all resources instead of killing
people? If we just.
Made another Earth I. There's just so many recalls in
the whole thing. I don't even want to go down

(01:00:27):
that path. It makes me sick.
And you build the story around that crap.
Anyways, we are gearing up for Terminalist this TV show.
In the meantime, if you're digging this, you're loving what
you're hearing, go check us out Instagram, Twitter, YouTube,

(01:00:52):
thrillerpod.com At Thriller Podcast.
We wouldn't be here without patrons.
Yes, don't forget our patrons because in the next month or so
we are working on a date for ournext book club.
We have a couple of finalists for which book we'll pick for
our book club. But we are going to do a patron
hang out. We are going to discuss a book

(01:01:14):
on Zoom. Always a good time, always a
ride. And the group chat is constantly
blown up. I took one from Daryl today.
I took a stray Daryl. Daryl hit me with 1 today.
But always appreciate his humor.So if you want to join the the
group chat with us and our quarterly book club Hangouts,
become a patronthrillerpod.com, click on the Patreon button and

(01:01:36):
join us over there. We'd love to have you.
The conversation never stops. Oh, Mike, we didn't even get a
chance to talk about Ward Larsonand Scott Hart.
Oh no, Brad Thor. Did we do that the Brad Thor
podcast? I'm going like over 2 1/2 or how
many times per episode we mix upScott and Brad's names?

(01:01:58):
It's no doubt minimum three times per episode, usually more.
I did that one there on purpose,but yeah, it it is, it's it's
it's pretty easy. But dude, I'm February, we're
getting, we're getting another Brad Thor book in February.
I'm I'm ready. That's exciting.
And the Brad Thor combined with Ward Larson, friend of the

(01:02:18):
podcast, we love covering his work.
He's such a good writer. And the way he can bring in the
aerospace of it all with planes and jets and all sorts of crazy
aircraft technology, no one doesit better.
So to put that together with Brad Thor, no one does
historical faction better. That is going to be an absolute

(01:02:39):
treat. And it seems very similar to the
plot of Dark Vector, which was Ward Larson's most recent book.
Spies, espionage, stealing technology, a defector.
Like, wow, does that seem like an absolute amazing book.
Cold 0, Is that the name of it? Yeah, I'm excited.

(01:03:01):
Dude, big announcement. A lot of a lot of a.
Lot of fun things to come. Yes.
All right, Well, before we get out of here, let me thank our
patrons by name, our deputy director, Sherry F, Bran, Brad
E, our special agents, Adam, Mike, Ben, Daryl, George, Matt,
Dawn and Chris. You know, and as always, just

(01:03:25):
who should I do it this time? I think it's got to be just
that. Rachel be Rachel.
Yeah, unfortunately you can't doCorky, but I want to.