July 1, 2025 • 41 mins
"Most enjoyable Brad Thor book"
"Book of the summer and of 2025!"
SPOILER WARNING: Be sure to read Edge of Honor before listening to this interview with Brad Thor!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:20):
All right. Today we are joined by good
friend of the podcast, the Man of the Summer, Brad Thor.
Welcome back. Hey, it's great being back.
I'm sorry it's only with 50% of the team.
I won't take it personally. I understand that.
It really was overwhelming reading the book for him and.
He couldn't make it to the interview and knocked Chris out.
It was such a heavy. No, I hope everything's OK with
(00:43):
his grandma and stuff. So I'm sorry.
Sure. I hope that wasn't embargoed and
I wasn't supposed to say anything.
No, no, that's fine. And I mean, honestly, he would
want to be here so badly becausehe's the one who pushed us on
the podcast once we finished Mitch rap to commit to Scott
Harvath as our second character series.
And now that we're done with allof them, I know he was RIP roar
and ready to to ask you some questions because we finished
(01:05):
all the Scott Harvath. Pretty impressive.
Well, we could. It's finished.
You can get another word other than rap, I think.
I think not using that one wouldbe OK.
It's a Mitch rap joke. That's even though it's with
AWI. Get it?
It was just when we finished. Season 1, it's a rap it it just
got overused. I think we had many, many
moments where that joke was resuscitated when it shouldn't
(01:28):
have been. But yeah, Brad, what a book.
I'm just going to start us off with some hot takes here and hot
take #1 this is the most enjoyable Brad Thor book.
I'm saying it I, I put my feet up.
I actually finished it in 16 hours flat.
Unbelievable. This one, it just goes down like
(01:50):
a slice of apple pie with vanilla ice cream and a hot dog
on the 4th. You know, a good Sam Adams.
This book is just so clean, so crisp.
I'm glad you liked it. I'm really glad you liked it.
And that's that, that's high praise.
I've been looking forward to doing this interview with you
guys because you guys did a whole season of podcast
(02:10):
dedicated to each one of the books.
So you really have a very, very thorough in depth knowledge of
of all the hardbath thrillers. So that's that's a very nice
compliment. Thank you.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'm going to hit you with hot
take #2 I think it's the most Flinnian Brad Thor book because
we talked a little bit about Mitch Rapp.
I felt like going to DC, having this cabal of elites, these
(02:34):
villains within our government all manipulating, whether it's
the CIA, the FBIA senator at theWhite House with a vice
president and even a Russian asset.
I just felt like this cast of characters was so Flinnian and
the way you brought us into DC politics, into the swamp, and
you really have your finger on the pulse.
(02:54):
Was that an intentional choice? No, and I don't think it's
flitting it at all, to be honestwith you.
And I don't like the comparison,to be honest, because it
suggests that somehow there's a that was kind of the exclusive
area that that that Vince wrote in.
And it isn't. I mean, he took characters to
Afghanistan and other places like that.
People have been writing intrigue in DC for as long as,
(03:16):
you know, they've been writing spy novels and stuff like that.
The reason I did it in DC and I've done other things I've had
I've had multitudes of corrupt senators and things like that.
And I mean, my God, my very first book started out with a
corrupt vice president cooperating with the president
being kidnapped on ski vacation.So it's I wanted to do to OK, we
(03:41):
agreed that this is we can go for spoilers here, right?
So all right, so if you have notread all the books, just
understand there's going to be spoilers in here for Edge of
Honor, but for other things too.So I'll tell you where I am with
this. So you guys know that when I
ended near dark, so near dark, there was $100 million bounty on
Harvest head Harvest got one last guy to kill.
(04:02):
This is the guy who was the godfather of the Russian
president's son who Harvest ended up killing to get even
with the president. There's $100 million bounty on
Harvest head. He goes up to the hospital room
because this guy, this Russian oligarch, his wife has been
undergoing cancer treatments andstuff.
You see her again in Shadow of doubt.
What you don't know at the end of Near Dark when Harvest spares
(04:23):
this guys life is is that he agreed with the oligarchs wife
to split $100 million bounty that was on his head.
She gets 50 million, he gets 50 million.
You learn that in Shadow of doubt because that's how Harvath
is blackmailed into service by by the CIA in shadow of doubt.
So essentially what I created for Harvath by giving him that
(04:44):
much money was I created what I call the supermodel problem.
And in the 1990s, one of the famous supermodels, Linda
Evangelista, said I don't get out of bed for anything less
than $100,000. And so Harvath's got a $50
million supermodel problem. Why?
He's got a beautiful new wife, everything's good, six month
honeymoon, Why would you get outof bed?
What's going to get Harvath out of bed?
(05:05):
And that was the big thing that I struggled with.
And so I thought, OK, it's got to be a friend who's in trouble
now. I'm going to only you have to be
careful because that can get kind of trophy.
You know, you've got to really be careful how you do that.
And so I thought about somebody I knew who had worked in a
previous administration that hadgotten a lot of death threats
(05:25):
and who wasn't able to get a security detail once he was on
the outside of government. And I thought, OK, that's really
interesting. Now, a lot of that stuff
actually broke in real life while I was finishing up the
editing for the book. Like back in February, you heard
that Mike Pompeo security detailgot stripped and there were a
couple of other people, John Bolton.
(05:46):
So if you look back in my Facebook, I actually, I talked
to David Brown, my publicist, and I said, you know, I want to
plant a little flag here so people don't think that I
actually based the whole book onsomething that happened in
February. So if you look back in my post,
I planted a flag where I have the story and I say, oh, I can.
I linked to like the Washington Post or something or Wall Street
Journal and say this is Harvest dealing with something very
(06:07):
similar in Edge of Honor. So the idea was bring him back
to the USI knew this book was going to pub.
I wanted it to pub the same weekas 4th of July.
Big patriotic cover. And I wanted to do just a really
red, white and blue patriotic thriller.
And for me, there was no place better than to set it in the
nation's capital right before the nation's birthday.
(06:27):
And so that's how all that stuffcame together And, and it's a
different book. I'm not bouncing around country
to country and stuff like that. It's not as international as
some of the other books are. But it had been a while since I
had had like such a strong setting in the US.
I mean, hidden orders got a lot of Boston in it.
I've done stuff before, a lot ofto, I think it would take down
(06:55):
obviously was all in New York, you know, during the 4th of July
weekend. So this is kind of the 4th.
This is my second, like big 4th of July thriller Takedown was
the 1st and then that's true. And then this one.
Yeah. And then the first commandment
was pretty much all in the United States, although there
was a side, there was a Side Story where this guy was in
Turkey and then he comes up in the US through Mexico and stuff
(07:16):
like. That and don't forget lines of
Lucerne, the slopes, yeah. Yeah.
I mean, yeah, I was thinking predominantly set in the United
States versus, I mean lines of concern starts, yeah, starts in
the US and has Park City and then has DC and then Harvard has
gone to gone to Europe, to Germany and Switzerland and that
kind of stuff. Yeah, you know, that definitely
(07:37):
sets this book apart with the DCfocus.
Another thing though, that you do so well, and I think you time
very well, is this almost singlestory.
Yes, there's a lot of different competing storylines here that
are balanced perfectly. Solvi, the Norwegians, when we
need her to come in to be the badass hero that she is.
We get that scene on the dullesttoll road, which might have been
(07:58):
my favorite action scene here. But you, you, you tend to have
these really, really killer books every 5 or 6 that are
focused on one thing. The way this is in DCI, feel
like the apostle did that. It was the Afghanistan book and
the way Backlash did it. It was the Siberia, you know,
book. It was the Russia book.
(08:19):
And I feel like this being the DC book, those are each spaced
out. I feel like that's such a great
move because it's a refresh fromall the traveling heavy and the
globe trotting that we're doing.The other ones it just shows
your skill set is so varied. I appreciate that I disagree
with you guys on that. I get it that that's your
opinion. I think they're all killer
books. I don't set out to pace and
there is no it is. I get an idea for a book, I pour
(08:41):
my heart and soul into it. I bleed to get the book done,
try to make it as exciting as possible and then, you know, get
it out there. And, but every individual has an
individual experience with the books.
And probably the, the, the coolest way I can describe it is
I've got an amusement park and each book is a ride at the
amusement park. Now, I love going to Universal
(09:04):
with my kids and there are ridesthat I'll go on again and again
and again because they're my favorites.
And there's rides that I've tried once that I won't go back
to. So I suppose when you've got 25
books, you just have one book. Either people are going to like
it, they're going to, it's goingto be there's people that lines
of Lucerne is always going to betheir favorite because I was the
first one right out of the gate.So, but, but for me, it is like
(09:25):
an amusement park where every year I'm coming out with a new
ride and I'm, I'm trying to do something different and I'm
trying to dial it up. And there's a lot of stuff that
I do behind the scenes that you may never even notice.
There's little turns of the screwdriver.
There's a, I'm, I'm setting downthe drafting the paper on the
drafting table little bit differently than I normally do.
It's a little bit tilted this way instead of that way.
And I'm going to come at designing the ride this way.
(09:47):
So, you know, that's the that's probably the biggest challenge
as a franchise character writer is coming at it and doing one of
the nicest reviews I ever got was I forget this gentleman's
name. He's a writer as well.
But he said that what I do, BradThor every year is I climbed the
(10:09):
same mountain peak, let's call it the Matterhorn just for fun.
So that was a code name a few books back.
So let's say climbing the Matterhorn.
But every year I'm doing it via a different face.
I'm still going up to the top. It's just I I mount the mountain
differently every time. And you know that that's a real
interesting thing you say, because one thing I wanted to
(10:30):
ask you about was this almost police procedural, because
you've done this a number of times, Carolyn and fields are
just and we met. We had them last book.
What a joy when we can cut away to them.
And it's like, as much as I wantharvest, as much as I want
Solvy, you're you're packing ourplate full of those two.
We're getting everything we wantout of them, then we step away
(10:51):
from them. Sometimes books can get a little
disappointing, like bring me back to, to what I love.
Well, no, I love those guys. I want to be with them.
And then when they get a chance to cross paths and, and the role
they've been playing is central helping Scott, you know, get
that final guy. I love that.
Did you have fun writing these two 'cause they're banter with
Sugar Bear and these nicknames and this playful talk?
(11:12):
I mean, I'm sure you have so many contacts inside the FBI.
This must be what it's like to be on the job.
There's a lot of it. There's a lot of gallows humor
and stuff because what these, what people see, whether it's a
law enforcement, whether it's in, you know, the military, they
see so much pain and so much suffering and, and stuff that,
you know, they arrive after the fact, after the, the evil has
(11:35):
been there and done its thing and they're, they're left to
pick up the pieces and, and track down what the evil was and
that kind of a thing. So you do need a good sense of
humor to survive. I, I don't think people, I, I
think people turn to other things if they don't have a good
sense of humor. And that can be very unhealthy.
So, but it's, it's, it's fun. It's fun for me.
(11:56):
I love the interaction of those characters.
And I mean, I really love the way Fields makes her boss
uncomfortable. I really, really enjoy that.
And the fact that he cuts her a lot of slack and she's good and
she's got yeah. And she's got nothing but runway
in front of her. He's nearing the end of his
career at the FBI and stuff. And it's just, it's, it's fun
and it's fun to see him. He kind of represents old guard
(12:19):
FBI for me. A lot of the people that I knew
growing up who were at the FBI who were, man, if I even used A4
letter word around him, I'd be in so much trouble.
You know, that kind of Hoover holdover stuff.
Well, that's exactly who I'm talking about.
Is, is not Kyle's dad. No, Kyle's dad was I, I wouldn't
(12:40):
worry about my language around Kyle's dad, but some of Kyle's
dad's colleagues. And that's how I know, that's
how I know Kyle is, because one of my dad's dear friends was in
the Bureau and was best friends with Kyle's dad.
So that's how we we know each other.
And there'd be this big FBI conference every summer and so
Kyle and I would see each other there.
But yeah, there were some of thesome of the guys of that age
(13:02):
group. And yeah, if I dropped a salty,
salty word boy, it was I heard about it.
I was I was taking a task. Another one of these guys is Bob
McGee, and after the events of Iguess Spymaster Backlash, a few
other books after that, you know, I feel like almost Carolyn
and Fields have that same vibe Bob McGee and Lydia Ryan had
(13:24):
early on. I know they're the CIA end of
things, but just these teammates, these partners with
this mutual respect for each other.
And we we lost Lydia Ryan, you know, so young.
I thought she had a bright future.
I kind of see Fields filling that gap.
And it's really great to have have a character like that.
And it just goes to another strong point of a Brad Thor
book, Female characters, strong female characters.
(13:47):
I know you've told us in the past that's important to you.
And this book again, knocks thatout of the park.
And it's not just Solvi, it's also Fields.
Well, that it's important to be.I have a daughter.
I want to write characters that she's going to admire and, and
look up to and want to aspire tobe like.
And I'm just, I'm surrounded by really smart, very talented
women with, you know, good coreswho know what the right thing to
(14:09):
do is and, and take that path nomatter how hard it is.
So it's really an homage to the,to the women that I respect and
care about in my life, my editor, my agent, my wife, my
daughter. I mean, I'm just, I'm blessed to
be surrounded by, by so many brilliant women.
And then it's the brilliant women that I've met in law
enforcement, the military, the diplomatic corps.
I mean, I've been very lucky to meet some real, real tough,
(14:32):
really smart women who, you know, going to get the job done
no matter what it takes. And I respect that.
Yeah, and another hallmark of a Brad Thor mountain.
I like the Matterhorn analogy. You always have these team ups,
and I can think of the team UPS going back to takedown with
Bullet Bob going back to Apostlewith all the guys, the operators
(14:53):
downrange in Afghanistan. Well, here you're almost
bringing back the old timers. Like I said, Bob McGee, Mike
Haney, you know, we know he's been injured.
And even Brendan Rodgers, that was a call back to backlash.
That was so much fun having the hostage czar come back.
Who saved Scott? He Scott kind of owes him one.
You had amazing callbacks that you, you know, you mentioned
(15:13):
gimmicks that that could come. Oh, no trophy.
You've said trophy. And for some writers, they don't
always nail that. It's like you're reaching back
to something that doesn't exactly connect.
This was authentically, reasonably laid out and just
made me jump for joy. That's why I said this.
The most enjoyable book. Oh, the biggest callback,
Nicholas. Back to the first night Harvath
(15:34):
and Nicholas met, right? He.
I knew I had to bring that. Yeah, I had to bring that back.
I had to bring were. You doing that for the fans
'cause I lost? Yeah.
It was like the ultimate. It was, I know he's such a fan
favorite and it was something that he'd never done again.
We never saw that again after the first time he did it.
And I was like, OK, this would be really cool.
And it technology wise, I was atAI was at a point in that book
(15:57):
where I needed something and that actually would have worked.
It checked, to be honest. It checked.
Yeah. Yeah, so it was just it, it just
turned out to be kind of a good,I didn't think I want to do this
with Nicholas and then backed into it via the tech.
The tech came first and I was like, how do you defeat this?
And I'm like, that's how we're going to do it.
I've always wanted to bring Nicholas back and have him do
that trick again. So that was kind of fun.
(16:20):
I was, I was a little concerned when we learned that Scott was
the point guy for the Carlton Group in protecting this house.
Is this River Edge estate? I was like, if, if the Carlton
Group put this together with Scott and lead, it's
impermeable. You know, there's no getting
past this. And to have the dog fool the AI
detectors who, you know, let thedeer through and other wildlife.
(16:41):
Absolute brilliant move. Brilliant.
It's kind of fun. By the way, that house actually
exists. It's just north of.
It's just north of of Mount Vernon and just north of that is
actually where Nicholas posts upand parks his van the the
Horticulture Society of America.I've been there.
Yeah. Oh, so you've been there.
All right. So, you know, so it's kind of,
(17:03):
it's kind of cool. The house actually that that
Harvath hits is for sale. So there's tons of pictures of
it on Zillow. There's a lot of times in like
Brendan Rodgers house in this book that's just South of
Langley in McLean. That place was for sale.
So a lot of times I'll go on Zillow, what I'm looking for
like a really cool house and I'll pick it and I'll map
everything out. So those two places, both
(17:26):
Brendan Rodgers Place and then the the estate that Harvest has
to hit are both places that werefor sale as I was writing the
book. That's incredible.
Yeah. When you mentioned River's Edge
was the house, I was like, huh, this is sounding an awful lot
like River Farm, which is the Horticultural Society.
And then you told us it was right next to.
I was like, Brad's got his finger on.
(17:46):
I've been in DC almost 20 years and every time I read a book
that gets DC and the surroundingarea right, it's so it's so
refreshing and obviously you know the area so well yourself.
Everything checked out and even new neighborhoods like the
Wharf. Oh yeah, I love the Wharf.
I love the and how about how about our path wanting to have
(18:06):
plenty of antibiotics once he got out of the river.
Oh, of course that that's very accurate, like.
That's. Totally accurate.
At least he wasn't swimming in the Anacostia though, because
that's. Oh God no, no, the.
Antibiotics aren't even going tosave you there, no.
No, no, no. Restaurants too.
We know you're a foodie, and we know Scott and Nicholas are
foodies. Hank's Oyster Bar is and Pisco
Inaska are those two of your favorites in DC.
(18:28):
There are two places that I like.
I mean, I really like the Wharf.I think what they did at the
Wharf is way, way cool. I spent some time there over the
winter, so it was really or in in the fall too.
Yeah. So I just, I love that whole
area. And there's just all those cool
restaurants along the Wharf and there's a politics and pros
bookstore over there as well. So it's kind of a kind of a
(18:51):
neat, neat place. So I like that area.
So I like to put places that I've been, you know, that's,
that's half the half the fun. Yeah.
And right across from the Wharf,if you're on the Wharf, you
know, you're eating, you're looking out, You see Haynes
Point E Potomac Park, one reallycool setting, a National Park
Service park, really cool setting for a thriller one day.
But there's also a golf course there.
(19:12):
And so looking at the Wharf, playing golf, it's.
Yeah. I just still can't believe you
had Nicholas ride the dog. I can't get over it.
It's. Really sticking with you.
That's good. I'm glad I did my job then.
I nearly lost lost my mind with that one.
But you know who else sticks with you?
The villains. We talked a little bit about it,
but we see on social media your your amazing blog post, 5 Fast
(19:35):
Facts. But one of my favorite themes of
Brad Thore social media is straight out of the straight out
of series. Yeah.
That's fun. When everyone or yourself
reposts an article that something is ripped right from
the headlines, you know, right from your books into the
headlines. I have a list here of seven or
eight things that that happened.It's just unbelievable.
(19:56):
I'm reading this and the NATO summit just this morning.
I'm seeing all these clips of a press conference regarding NATO
and so much in the last electioncycle turning on a president for
not staying true to campaign ideals.
When a populist president gets into office and has to actually
deal with the swamp. That's the VP says America First
in his speech as he's trying to usurp power.
(20:19):
The podcast. The Coughlin podcast was a real
interesting take because just look at the last election cycle,
the influence of Joe Rogan or Theo Von and these other new
media. When are we going to see you on
Joe Rogan I? Don't know.
I'm I'm not a I'm not a big Rogan guy.
I don't know. I don't know if I don't know if
(20:40):
I'll ever be on there. I mean, I don't have a problem
with them either way. I just don't know what I I don't
know if he's a big book guy and he likes to talk thriller books.
You know, I'm not, I'm not sure.I'll say one of the things that
I really prided myself on in this book in the first review we
got for it was very complimentary that you know
what, there's no, there isn't politics.
There isn't taking one side. It was right down the middle so
(21:03):
that this book can be enjoyable for everyone.
And that that that Coughlin podcaster guy is actually based
on a real really terrible radio show host from decades and
decades and decades ago, from like the 30s or 40s.
Father Coughlin, who was a real demagogue and a bad guy that
they ran out of the radio business who was very, very
(21:25):
damaging for American culture and things like that.
So that's where that last name comes from for that for that
guy. So that's a little Easter eggy
type thing that's in there. So this idea that this guy is
trying to rile people up, I've always been fascinated by the
French Revolution and the different factions, particularly
the Jacobins, and this desire toforce through a change, to say
(21:49):
the people are too dumb to vote.So we're going to take matters
into our own hands and we're going to force what we want onto
the rest of the country. And that was the inspiration for
Edge of Honor, that there is this shadowy cabal.
They, as you said, that there's a new administration.
This is the youngest president since Kennedy.
He was very popular and he gets in and part of it, I'm going to
(22:12):
actually admit this came from Dennis Miller, the comedian.
OK, Do you remember? You're probably, I don't know if
you're too young to remember Dennis Miller that.
Sure, I've seen him. He was on the Bill O'Reilly, you
know. Yeah, he was on O'Reilly all the
time. So he used to have a really good
joke about what he thought firstday in the Oval Office was like
for a new president. You get to hop on Air Force One,
you go out to Area 51, you get to get you get to give the the
(22:36):
alien that they have laying on the slab there a purple nerp.
And then you go back to the White House and they drop this
binder in your lap that shows you how serious the world is and
all the stuff that's your responsibility.
So this I was looking for a way.How do I, how do I have a
faction that's maneuvering on the inside to basically collapse
(22:57):
an administration and put their own administration in charge?
Very Jacobin. And this is what this is what I
thought of is to have this groupwant to basically weaken a new
young president who was elected despite, you know, October
surprises and all this kind of stuff, who was super, super
popular. And so that's where the idea
(23:18):
came from. It wasn't like a Trump thing.
It was a, you know, I really wanted to figure out how to
shoehorn in factions. And that's why the epigraph at
the beginning of the book I actually took from George
Washington's farewell address because Washington worried and
warned us about the dangers of factions and what a tyranny 1
(23:40):
faction oppressing other factions can become.
And I mean, they, it goes back and forth.
So today you're the oppressor, tomorrow you're the oppressed.
So, so that idea of a bunch of power hungry people who think,
you know, the voters are stupid.We know what's best for them.
And even though they voted for this one, one group with this
one political party, we're goingto force our will on the rest of
(24:01):
the country. And we don't care how many
people die in the process. So that was the idea for Edge of
Honor. And that worked and that played
out and thank you. I mean, look at something like
the filibuster, right? One party gets in power and all
of a sudden wants to remove thatas a mechanism.
What are you going to do with the next election cycle, or two
or three? Shoes on the other party.
Exactly. And I feel like we're seeing
(24:22):
that more and more and it's, it's not a good path to go down.
And it yeah, no. So from from Washington.
It's a great quote from Washington.
And I'm I, I want people to havejust a really fast, fun beach
read. Take it to the lake, take it to
the pool, take it to the beach and just keep turning those
pages and those crisp, short cinematic chapters.
So that kind of stuff was was fun for me to, you know, listen,
(24:47):
you can never go wrong making politicians the bad guys.
You know, there isn't a big contingency out there that's
going to be upset by that, you know, so.
Sure, sure. It takes me back to the Smoking
Room and Lions of Lucerne opening up with yeah, with the
senators and the oil executives.At at Senator Fawcett's estate
in Lake Geneva. Yeah.
That they're sitting there discussing.
(25:09):
Basically, they're going to kidnap the president to push
through, to remove the presidentfrom the scene so that the vice
president will pass the decidingvote for their piece of
legislation. Yeah.
And Speaking of the politics of it all, the other quote in the
book that floored me was right after the VP gives the America
First speech, clearly wants to usurp things and Senator
(25:33):
Blackwood is sitting there and says, but will it play in
Peoria? And I'm just.
Like this is an old expression, yeah.
These characters are, it's that kind of BS in that political,
you know, political speak. You know, like I said earlier,
Vince Flynn's books were always the politicians, the bad guys.
We even said they were the secondary villains.
The cabal of villains here is phenomenal.
And and another thing you said was these crisp chapters.
(25:56):
I noticed that right from the beginning.
I was wondering why. Like I said, I finished this
book in 16 hours. I started at 10:00 PM one night,
didn't go to bed till 2. AMI was like, I know I don't put
these books down, but this one is sucking me in even more than
usual. And I it was the crisp, quick
chapters that just kept me on myfeet, kept me on my toes.
And not to mention that opening action scene.
(26:17):
What was it? Did you get to see our post?
I took the book over to. Yes, I reshared it.
I was gonna, I've been waiting to bring that up here.
I thought it was fantastic. I, I don't think I'll ever be
invited back to the Norwegian Ambassadors residence again.
I've been there a couple times inside, but I probably with with
doing what I did in the book, you know, who knows what's going
to happen? I'm sure it's fine.
(26:38):
I mean, I'm sure they love, you know, having Norway feature so
prominently in the book. And I certainly love writing
about them because I think they're such a cool NATO partner
and that's such a cool part of the world and such a beautiful
campus that they have for the ambassador's residence.
And, and you did such a great job.
If, if, if no one has seen it, they need to look at what you
filmed actually show that intersection, because you really
(27:00):
do have the Papal embassy. And across the street cross
34th, you've got the Norwegian ambassador's residence and
behind that, the embassy down 34th.
And then right across the two from the 2 is the Naval
Observatory where the vice president's residence is.
And I thought, OK, this is really interesting.
And that's, I wanted to make these guys so bad, the bad guys
that they'd attack their own supporters to get their people
(27:23):
riled up, that they would sacrifice and just murder their
own people who are at a protest.So, yeah, that was that was
wild. I've, I've been at that
intersection so many times and I'm sitting there thinking, wow,
it'd be wild if a bomb went off here or somebody started
shooting and. And another added element is
how, and I don't know the protocols and the rules of
(27:44):
engagement, but you've got so much police presence there yet I
don't know, would the Secret Service leave the premises of
the the compound? You know they wouldn't, right.
Even if it's another embassy. Not that it's not their job.
It's not their job because how do you know it's not a ruse to
pull you out, Like. And and then they go in and they
(28:07):
attack the vice president's residence.
So their job is to stay there. Unfortunately, that's not their
job, man. So, yeah.
So that was the, that was the, you know, I had to make sure the
readers understood that because it's like, why didn't those guys
move? They don't care about the
American people kind of a thing.That's not their job, dude.
It's like if my babysitter hears, you know, a car alarm
going off 2 blocks down, she doesn't have to leave my kids,
(28:30):
you know, in front of a boiling pot of water for macaroni and
cheese while she goes and figures out why a car alarm is
going off. That's not her job.
No, completely. And and the fact that you
explained that so well, it made sense.
Like everything in this book, itall checked out.
It all kept the plot moving and I think balance, like I said
before, I think this book is just so well balanced, even the
competing storylines, because itwas equally fun wondering about
(28:54):
Senator Blackwood and his mistress and being a thriller
reader of all these years. I was like, I know something's
fishy with with her. I don't know what it's going to
be. And then that meet in Woodley
Park, yet another DC neighborhood.
My school's right. Like I said, near politics and
prose. Just a few miles away from
Woodley Park, another neighborhood you describe just.
Absolutely. Yeah, Yeah.
(29:16):
And thank you. So it's fun.
And I mean, that apartment building that they met in
exists. It's a legit apartment building
and stuff. And yeah, it was just kind of,
it was just kind of fun to just all of a sudden have her handler
go whoop, you're leaving, you'rewhat?
You're leaving, you're out, we're pulling.
Shocking, yeah, yeah. And that's, that was just fun.
And I don't outline my books. I mean, I'm very organic, very
(29:39):
instead of a plotter, I'm a pantser, so it's very much
seated pants. So everyday I come in, I don't
know what's going to happen in the story till I sit down and
I'm I'm working on it. So, yeah, I mean, that was a
that was a lot of, that was a lot of fun doing that kind of a
switch right at the end there like that.
Yeah, and that and that is kind of when the climactic action is
(30:00):
building, we're kind of racing to this finish line, whether
it's taking down the white nationalist.
I mean, you're writing about this Iron Tree group.
And in my mind, I'm just visualizing, you know, the
Shenandoah, Appalachia and, and different places and how these
people are so radicalized and, and the like the Patriot Front,
these marching groups with theirkhakis.
And I'm thinking all these guys with their tattoos, Nashville,
(30:23):
those. Guys are on our streets all the
effing time, these guys. So so much fun taking them down
watching. It was a lot of fun.
To take them down was fun. The background information when
I, when you have Carolyn and Fields discussing kind of this
lost boy syndrome where these people are economically
disadvantaged. They're not seeing the rise in
(30:43):
wages that their parents and their grandparents saw when I
talk about. But this being the first
generation that's not as upwardly mobile, all that stuff
is legit real stuff. And it does, it does make people
susceptible to certain messages.So, you know, we used to worry
about, we used to worry about homegrown jihadism, people that
would get radicalized online by foreign Muslim preachers and
(31:07):
things like that. We have another kind of problem
with radicalism here. It doesn't mean that every white
person's a neo Nazi and all thatkind of stuff.
But the, the, the ground is veryfertile in certain pockets for
people who are angry that don't understand what's going on.
All they know is that the systemdoesn't seem to be looking out
(31:27):
for them, doesn't care for them.So there's, there's an ability
there to kind of work, work people through.
One of my favorite things, though, and I, I couple of
people have commented on it fromthe book that I actually laughed
at when I was when I was writingit.
You know, I've, if I laugh at myown joke, and I don't often
laugh at my own jokes. But if I do, it's when they go
up to the House of that one white nationalist, that Iron
(31:49):
Tree guy who left, who they threatened if you leave, blah
blah blah, blah, blah. Yeah, in the.
Hospital. Yeah, with a son in the
hospital. And so they go up and Carolyn
sees like the Confederate flag on the door and ask feels if she
wants to stand in front of them and not.
Yeah, that was good. That was a great touch.
And he can say that because of how much they give each other
(32:12):
the business like I love. That that starts in chapter 5
when when he makes a comment about The X-Files and and she's
like, she goes, what, Black people can't watch The X-Files
and he goes, Jesus, not again. That's like his lie.
Not again. Yeah, exactly.
It's not a black white thing. You're too young.
But I loved when he was just like, oh, Jesus, here we go.
(32:34):
Not again. You know, it's like she's trying
to pin him down and she does it on purpose.
She needles him. She knows he's he doesn't care
what color her skin is, but she pretends like it's a big deal,
which just and it's like her, she makes fun of him with the
coffee orders all the time to embarrass him.
And it's just like he drinks frilly coffee and he just drinks
it black. But she announces, you know,
(32:56):
some very, very, I don't want tocall him feminine coffee orders,
but some coffee orders that a guy that big at the FBI, you
would not think he drinks and hedoesn't.
But she loves to embarrass him. You can't beat Sugar Bear though
when she gives him the Sugar Bear.
That is just the ultimate nickname.
That one better stick. That one, you know, that's the
one that sticks. Yeah.
And the second everyone else at the Bureau finds out about it,
(33:17):
that's. Exactly, exactly so.
So much fun in this book, but a big kind of element we're
missing here is that after Shadow of Doubt, things could
have gone a number of ways. Because they're married, Scott
and Salvi. Could have been the end of
Harvath. It could have just been the end.
They rode off into the sunset and that was it.
(33:37):
That was it. And there's so many times
earlier in the Series 2 where wethink he's stepping away or he's
looking for this other part of his life to settle down.
And him finding Solvy was so important in the series.
And then I just go, but how willthey operate together?
And I think this book really solves that problem that comes
up in a lot of thrillers is how do you have an apex predator be
(33:59):
vulnerable with a significant other?
And I think the two of them are just a match.
It's a perfect match. And I was wondering where you go
with it. And this book I think was a
perfect again, balance of them being on the same team.
Yeah, I, I, I it was fun to do that.
And Harvath, ever since she was introduced, has said, you know,
the only advantage that he has over her is that he's been at it
(34:21):
longer. So he has more experience.
But in his estimation, he said this repeatedly.
She's smarter, she's got better instincts.
She's more capable, more talented.
I mean, he's been very generous in his opinion of her.
Again, the only thing he's got that she doesn't is, is a lot
more experienced. It's because he's older than her
and he's been at it longer. So he has a lot of respect for
(34:42):
her abilities and everything. And I, I love the fact that
they're both so broken that they've had really bad personal
lives up to this point. So the idea of them finding each
other, people like it moved really fast.
And I'd be like, you'd be surprised.
People who have had had it rough, if they find something
that good, they grab onto both hands.
(35:02):
I've seen it happen. If they're smart enough to
realize they've got something great and that it might not ever
come along again, you grab it ashard as you can.
And they both did. God bless him.
It wasn't him chasing her or herchasing him.
They both realized. And they were just like, F it,
We'll, we'll make it work. And you know, we we go back to
where was it? It was the end of I'm looking at
(35:24):
my books here. That's why I'm looking off
camera. But I think about rising tiger
and how many that came after near dark.
So the end of the year dark or the beginning of near dark.
Basically the Carlton group was going, you're out of vacation
days, dude. You either, you know, you either
submit your resignation or get back here.
So that was always going to be aproblem was kind of that
(35:45):
geographic issue between the twoof them and how do they maintain
a relationship. And Near Dark she came on so
strong and then Rising Tiger andEven Dead Fall to a point.
I'm wondering what role does shehave to play in his life?
And they worked through that andthey had to get through that and
now they can be a little more settled.
Just like this book being a July4th DC based book, everything
(36:07):
seems to be settling into place as it should.
Once we got the villains out of the way.
Bob McGee, not to quote an author back to himself.
A Bob McGee says quote life is all about the timing.
It's true work. So.
True. Bob McGee.
I went through the police Academy in Illinois, and Bob
McGee is a combination of two instructors that I had at the
(36:31):
police Academy. Very, very funny, flippant men
who'd seen a lot were very wise,very worldly, and it seemed the
worst of what mankind was capable in their capable of, in
their careers in law enforcement.
And so it's, it's funny because that character is, is often
times an homage to these two, two instructors that I, that I
(36:55):
liked very, very much. I was a writer at the time.
And there's, there's a program in Illinois where you can do it
like the National Guard and you can go on the weekends and
there's some online stuff so youdon't have to sit in classroom
stuff all the time. But it just takes longer that if
you went to the Academy for six weeks, 8 weeks, whatever it may
be. And it was funny because about
1/3 of the way through, I'd find, like, with the online
(37:19):
course material, there'd be like, massive typos that would
actually change the question. And I get the question wrong.
And I'm like, no, no, no, I got the question right.
And eventually they Googled me. It's really funny.
They hadn't Googled me up to that point.
And so for the rest of my time at the police Academy, they
called me Castle. Like that TV show where the
writers working with the detective and his name is
(37:40):
Castle, and he wears the raid vest that says writer.
It doesn't even say police, It says writer.
And the TV show was called Castle.
So for the rest of my time there, they called me Castle.
Put your hand down, Castle. FBI windbreaker that says author
on the back. Author on the back.
Yeah, the Big Blue windbreaker with gold on it.
Author. Exactly.
Yeah, you're investigating the crime scene to write a book, not
(38:01):
to, you know, solve the. Mystery.
Exactly. Exactly.
Well, Brad, this has been a lot of fun.
Everyone who listened to this has already read Edge of Honor.
So go out there, give it a five star review, repost, get the
word out there that this is not only the book of the summer,
this is the book of 2025. So far it's my favorite and I
think it will withstand the next, you know, six months or
(38:24):
so. Yeah, great book.
Wow, I'm honored. Thank you.
And and listen, you guys are always, I don't know anybody who
pulls less punches than you guysdo.
You're always very honest. It's all very fair.
But I really respect both of youguys for how much attention you
take, how much care you take. And I mean, it is wild for me to
(38:47):
sit and listen to your podcast about my own books, but it's,
it's just so great. It's like having this very
intelligent focus group and to hear what you like, what you
know, you know, what worked, what didn't necessarily work for
you. And you guys don't always agree.
I mean, right down the covers. I mean, you guys look at the
international covers and all that kind of stuff.
So just know as an as an author,I appreciate the hell out of
(39:09):
you. Hey, I'm glad to hear that, and
I hope you don't take it too personally because we know how
much you pour yourself into the books, but that's why we do it.
We think we see a lot online of the cheerleading, and we're glad
that a lot of media and interviews help spread the word
because ultimately we too want that as fans, as more authors
being supported in their craft, pushing more content so that we
can enjoy it. But at the same time, we think
(39:30):
when something's good, it deserves critique or it deserves
your full attention. And so we want to dig into it
instead of just, you know, post.This is the greatest book ever.
Be a prisoner of the moment, youknow, favored one in the series
every year. One, you'll lose credibility and
and two, if it's not, it's stilla very good book to enjoy.
And it might play its role in the series and, you know, might
(39:50):
have a a message and a story to tell.
It doesn't need to be the best one.
It might do something unique to advance the characters in our
opinion. And that's really important
overall, if you look at the series.
So I think this one is right up there.
Thank you. Loved it.
And the last thing I got to ask you is you did have a dark blue
2010 Malibu, right? That's your favorite car you
ever own? No, I never owned a Chevy
(40:14):
Malibu, but that I mean, that was another listen, I, you can
tell I had fun writing this book, you know what I mean?
And so that, you know, getting that car that didn't have the
air conditioning and you know, it was just, it was just, it
was, it was it's my 25th book, for crying out loud.
I'm like, if I can't have fun now at this point in my career,
still deliver. And I'm thrilled to hear how
(40:35):
much you enjoyed the book. But I, I'm able to, you know,
take the work seriously, but notnecessarily take myself that
serious. And, and that, that that was the
key here was to have fun, which is weird if you're building an
amusement park and you're havingfun while you're building the
ride. But I, I had a lot of fun
building this ride. So I'm glad to hear that you
enjoyed it. It's all that matters.
(40:56):
That's the most important thing,actually.
That old Chesterton quote Why can angels fly?
They take themselves so lightly.Oh, that's a great quote.
Great. I probably butchered it, but you
know, Chesterton's the master ofthat.
All right, Brad, great to have you on.
As always, appreciate everythingyou do and thanks for spending
the time on Thriller Pod. My pleasure, thanks for having
(41:17):
me. Good luck with the tour.
Thanks got to thank our patrons,including our special, our
deputy director, special deputy director, Sherry F, our special
operator, Jason C, our special agents, Ben, Darrell, Kevin,
George, Matt, Don, Peggy, Mark and Chris.
Subscribe or interview to all three seasons of No Limits.
You can find us at third pod.comor on Twitter and Instagram.
(41:41):
And as always, just let Scott beScott.
All right. Today we are joined by good
friend of the podcast, the Man of the Summer, Brad Thor.
Welcome back. Hey, it's great being back.
I'm sorry it's only with 50% of the team.
I won't take it personally. I understand that.
It really was overwhelming reading the book for him and.
He couldn't make it to the interview and knocked Chris out.
It was such a heavy. No, I hope everything's OK with
(00:43):
his grandma and stuff. So I'm sorry.
Sure. I hope that wasn't embargoed and
I wasn't supposed to say anything.
No, no, that's fine. And I mean, honestly, he would
want to be here so badly becausehe's the one who pushed us on
the podcast once we finished Mitch rap to commit to Scott
Harvath as our second character series.
And now that we're done with allof them, I know he was RIP roar
and ready to to ask you some questions because we finished
(01:05):
all the Scott Harvath. Pretty impressive.
Well, we could. It's finished.
You can get another word other than rap, I think.
I think not using that one wouldbe OK.
It's a Mitch rap joke. That's even though it's with
AWI. Get it?
It was just when we finished. Season 1, it's a rap it it just
got overused. I think we had many, many
moments where that joke was resuscitated when it shouldn't
(01:28):
have been. But yeah, Brad, what a book.
I'm just going to start us off with some hot takes here and hot
take #1 this is the most enjoyable Brad Thor book.
I'm saying it I, I put my feet up.
I actually finished it in 16 hours flat.
Unbelievable. This one, it just goes down like
(01:50):
a slice of apple pie with vanilla ice cream and a hot dog
on the 4th. You know, a good Sam Adams.
This book is just so clean, so crisp.
I'm glad you liked it. I'm really glad you liked it.
And that's that, that's high praise.
I've been looking forward to doing this interview with you
guys because you guys did a whole season of podcast
(02:10):
dedicated to each one of the books.
So you really have a very, very thorough in depth knowledge of
of all the hardbath thrillers. So that's that's a very nice
compliment. Thank you.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'm going to hit you with hot
take #2 I think it's the most Flinnian Brad Thor book because
we talked a little bit about Mitch Rapp.
I felt like going to DC, having this cabal of elites, these
(02:34):
villains within our government all manipulating, whether it's
the CIA, the FBIA senator at theWhite House with a vice
president and even a Russian asset.
I just felt like this cast of characters was so Flinnian and
the way you brought us into DC politics, into the swamp, and
you really have your finger on the pulse.
(02:54):
Was that an intentional choice? No, and I don't think it's
flitting it at all, to be honestwith you.
And I don't like the comparison,to be honest, because it
suggests that somehow there's a that was kind of the exclusive
area that that that Vince wrote in.
And it isn't. I mean, he took characters to
Afghanistan and other places like that.
People have been writing intrigue in DC for as long as,
(03:16):
you know, they've been writing spy novels and stuff like that.
The reason I did it in DC and I've done other things I've had
I've had multitudes of corrupt senators and things like that.
And I mean, my God, my very first book started out with a
corrupt vice president cooperating with the president
being kidnapped on ski vacation.So it's I wanted to do to OK, we
(03:41):
agreed that this is we can go for spoilers here, right?
So all right, so if you have notread all the books, just
understand there's going to be spoilers in here for Edge of
Honor, but for other things too.So I'll tell you where I am with
this. So you guys know that when I
ended near dark, so near dark, there was $100 million bounty on
Harvest head Harvest got one last guy to kill.
(04:02):
This is the guy who was the godfather of the Russian
president's son who Harvest ended up killing to get even
with the president. There's $100 million bounty on
Harvest head. He goes up to the hospital room
because this guy, this Russian oligarch, his wife has been
undergoing cancer treatments andstuff.
You see her again in Shadow of doubt.
What you don't know at the end of Near Dark when Harvest spares
(04:23):
this guys life is is that he agreed with the oligarchs wife
to split $100 million bounty that was on his head.
She gets 50 million, he gets 50 million.
You learn that in Shadow of doubt because that's how Harvath
is blackmailed into service by by the CIA in shadow of doubt.
So essentially what I created for Harvath by giving him that
(04:44):
much money was I created what I call the supermodel problem.
And in the 1990s, one of the famous supermodels, Linda
Evangelista, said I don't get out of bed for anything less
than $100,000. And so Harvath's got a $50
million supermodel problem. Why?
He's got a beautiful new wife, everything's good, six month
honeymoon, Why would you get outof bed?
What's going to get Harvath out of bed?
(05:05):
And that was the big thing that I struggled with.
And so I thought, OK, it's got to be a friend who's in trouble
now. I'm going to only you have to be
careful because that can get kind of trophy.
You know, you've got to really be careful how you do that.
And so I thought about somebody I knew who had worked in a
previous administration that hadgotten a lot of death threats
(05:25):
and who wasn't able to get a security detail once he was on
the outside of government. And I thought, OK, that's really
interesting. Now, a lot of that stuff
actually broke in real life while I was finishing up the
editing for the book. Like back in February, you heard
that Mike Pompeo security detailgot stripped and there were a
couple of other people, John Bolton.
(05:46):
So if you look back in my Facebook, I actually, I talked
to David Brown, my publicist, and I said, you know, I want to
plant a little flag here so people don't think that I
actually based the whole book onsomething that happened in
February. So if you look back in my post,
I planted a flag where I have the story and I say, oh, I can.
I linked to like the Washington Post or something or Wall Street
Journal and say this is Harvest dealing with something very
(06:07):
similar in Edge of Honor. So the idea was bring him back
to the USI knew this book was going to pub.
I wanted it to pub the same weekas 4th of July.
Big patriotic cover. And I wanted to do just a really
red, white and blue patriotic thriller.
And for me, there was no place better than to set it in the
nation's capital right before the nation's birthday.
(06:27):
And so that's how all that stuffcame together And, and it's a
different book. I'm not bouncing around country
to country and stuff like that. It's not as international as
some of the other books are. But it had been a while since I
had had like such a strong setting in the US.
I mean, hidden orders got a lot of Boston in it.
I've done stuff before, a lot ofto, I think it would take down
(06:55):
obviously was all in New York, you know, during the 4th of July
weekend. So this is kind of the 4th.
This is my second, like big 4th of July thriller Takedown was
the 1st and then that's true. And then this one.
Yeah. And then the first commandment
was pretty much all in the United States, although there
was a side, there was a Side Story where this guy was in
Turkey and then he comes up in the US through Mexico and stuff
(07:16):
like. That and don't forget lines of
Lucerne, the slopes, yeah. Yeah.
I mean, yeah, I was thinking predominantly set in the United
States versus, I mean lines of concern starts, yeah, starts in
the US and has Park City and then has DC and then Harvard has
gone to gone to Europe, to Germany and Switzerland and that
kind of stuff. Yeah, you know, that definitely
(07:37):
sets this book apart with the DCfocus.
Another thing though, that you do so well, and I think you time
very well, is this almost singlestory.
Yes, there's a lot of different competing storylines here that
are balanced perfectly. Solvi, the Norwegians, when we
need her to come in to be the badass hero that she is.
We get that scene on the dullesttoll road, which might have been
(07:58):
my favorite action scene here. But you, you, you tend to have
these really, really killer books every 5 or 6 that are
focused on one thing. The way this is in DCI, feel
like the apostle did that. It was the Afghanistan book and
the way Backlash did it. It was the Siberia, you know,
book. It was the Russia book.
(08:19):
And I feel like this being the DC book, those are each spaced
out. I feel like that's such a great
move because it's a refresh fromall the traveling heavy and the
globe trotting that we're doing.The other ones it just shows
your skill set is so varied. I appreciate that I disagree
with you guys on that. I get it that that's your
opinion. I think they're all killer
books. I don't set out to pace and
there is no it is. I get an idea for a book, I pour
(08:41):
my heart and soul into it. I bleed to get the book done,
try to make it as exciting as possible and then, you know, get
it out there. And, but every individual has an
individual experience with the books.
And probably the, the, the coolest way I can describe it is
I've got an amusement park and each book is a ride at the
amusement park. Now, I love going to Universal
(09:04):
with my kids and there are ridesthat I'll go on again and again
and again because they're my favorites.
And there's rides that I've tried once that I won't go back
to. So I suppose when you've got 25
books, you just have one book. Either people are going to like
it, they're going to, it's goingto be there's people that lines
of Lucerne is always going to betheir favorite because I was the
first one right out of the gate.So, but, but for me, it is like
(09:25):
an amusement park where every year I'm coming out with a new
ride and I'm, I'm trying to do something different and I'm
trying to dial it up. And there's a lot of stuff that
I do behind the scenes that you may never even notice.
There's little turns of the screwdriver.
There's a, I'm, I'm setting downthe drafting the paper on the
drafting table little bit differently than I normally do.
It's a little bit tilted this way instead of that way.
And I'm going to come at designing the ride this way.
(09:47):
So, you know, that's the that's probably the biggest challenge
as a franchise character writer is coming at it and doing one of
the nicest reviews I ever got was I forget this gentleman's
name. He's a writer as well.
But he said that what I do, BradThor every year is I climbed the
(10:09):
same mountain peak, let's call it the Matterhorn just for fun.
So that was a code name a few books back.
So let's say climbing the Matterhorn.
But every year I'm doing it via a different face.
I'm still going up to the top. It's just I I mount the mountain
differently every time. And you know that that's a real
interesting thing you say, because one thing I wanted to
(10:30):
ask you about was this almost police procedural, because
you've done this a number of times, Carolyn and fields are
just and we met. We had them last book.
What a joy when we can cut away to them.
And it's like, as much as I wantharvest, as much as I want
Solvy, you're you're packing ourplate full of those two.
We're getting everything we wantout of them, then we step away
(10:51):
from them. Sometimes books can get a little
disappointing, like bring me back to, to what I love.
Well, no, I love those guys. I want to be with them.
And then when they get a chance to cross paths and, and the role
they've been playing is central helping Scott, you know, get
that final guy. I love that.
Did you have fun writing these two 'cause they're banter with
Sugar Bear and these nicknames and this playful talk?
(11:12):
I mean, I'm sure you have so many contacts inside the FBI.
This must be what it's like to be on the job.
There's a lot of it. There's a lot of gallows humor
and stuff because what these, what people see, whether it's a
law enforcement, whether it's in, you know, the military, they
see so much pain and so much suffering and, and stuff that,
you know, they arrive after the fact, after the, the evil has
(11:35):
been there and done its thing and they're, they're left to
pick up the pieces and, and track down what the evil was and
that kind of a thing. So you do need a good sense of
humor to survive. I, I don't think people, I, I
think people turn to other things if they don't have a good
sense of humor. And that can be very unhealthy.
So, but it's, it's, it's fun. It's fun for me.
(11:56):
I love the interaction of those characters.
And I mean, I really love the way Fields makes her boss
uncomfortable. I really, really enjoy that.
And the fact that he cuts her a lot of slack and she's good and
she's got yeah. And she's got nothing but runway
in front of her. He's nearing the end of his
career at the FBI and stuff. And it's just, it's, it's fun
and it's fun to see him. He kind of represents old guard
(12:19):
FBI for me. A lot of the people that I knew
growing up who were at the FBI who were, man, if I even used A4
letter word around him, I'd be in so much trouble.
You know, that kind of Hoover holdover stuff.
Well, that's exactly who I'm talking about.
Is, is not Kyle's dad. No, Kyle's dad was I, I wouldn't
(12:40):
worry about my language around Kyle's dad, but some of Kyle's
dad's colleagues. And that's how I know, that's
how I know Kyle is, because one of my dad's dear friends was in
the Bureau and was best friends with Kyle's dad.
So that's how we we know each other.
And there'd be this big FBI conference every summer and so
Kyle and I would see each other there.
But yeah, there were some of thesome of the guys of that age
(13:02):
group. And yeah, if I dropped a salty,
salty word boy, it was I heard about it.
I was I was taking a task. Another one of these guys is Bob
McGee, and after the events of Iguess Spymaster Backlash, a few
other books after that, you know, I feel like almost Carolyn
and Fields have that same vibe Bob McGee and Lydia Ryan had
(13:24):
early on. I know they're the CIA end of
things, but just these teammates, these partners with
this mutual respect for each other.
And we we lost Lydia Ryan, you know, so young.
I thought she had a bright future.
I kind of see Fields filling that gap.
And it's really great to have have a character like that.
And it just goes to another strong point of a Brad Thor
book, Female characters, strong female characters.
(13:47):
I know you've told us in the past that's important to you.
And this book again, knocks thatout of the park.
And it's not just Solvi, it's also Fields.
Well, that it's important to be.I have a daughter.
I want to write characters that she's going to admire and, and
look up to and want to aspire tobe like.
And I'm just, I'm surrounded by really smart, very talented
women with, you know, good coreswho know what the right thing to
(14:09):
do is and, and take that path nomatter how hard it is.
So it's really an homage to the,to the women that I respect and
care about in my life, my editor, my agent, my wife, my
daughter. I mean, I'm just, I'm blessed to
be surrounded by, by so many brilliant women.
And then it's the brilliant women that I've met in law
enforcement, the military, the diplomatic corps.
I mean, I've been very lucky to meet some real, real tough,
(14:32):
really smart women who, you know, going to get the job done
no matter what it takes. And I respect that.
Yeah, and another hallmark of a Brad Thor mountain.
I like the Matterhorn analogy. You always have these team ups,
and I can think of the team UPS going back to takedown with
Bullet Bob going back to Apostlewith all the guys, the operators
(14:53):
downrange in Afghanistan. Well, here you're almost
bringing back the old timers. Like I said, Bob McGee, Mike
Haney, you know, we know he's been injured.
And even Brendan Rodgers, that was a call back to backlash.
That was so much fun having the hostage czar come back.
Who saved Scott? He Scott kind of owes him one.
You had amazing callbacks that you, you know, you mentioned
(15:13):
gimmicks that that could come. Oh, no trophy.
You've said trophy. And for some writers, they don't
always nail that. It's like you're reaching back
to something that doesn't exactly connect.
This was authentically, reasonably laid out and just
made me jump for joy. That's why I said this.
The most enjoyable book. Oh, the biggest callback,
Nicholas. Back to the first night Harvath
(15:34):
and Nicholas met, right? He.
I knew I had to bring that. Yeah, I had to bring that back.
I had to bring were. You doing that for the fans
'cause I lost? Yeah.
It was like the ultimate. It was, I know he's such a fan
favorite and it was something that he'd never done again.
We never saw that again after the first time he did it.
And I was like, OK, this would be really cool.
And it technology wise, I was atAI was at a point in that book
(15:57):
where I needed something and that actually would have worked.
It checked, to be honest. It checked.
Yeah. Yeah, so it was just it, it just
turned out to be kind of a good,I didn't think I want to do this
with Nicholas and then backed into it via the tech.
The tech came first and I was like, how do you defeat this?
And I'm like, that's how we're going to do it.
I've always wanted to bring Nicholas back and have him do
that trick again. So that was kind of fun.
(16:20):
I was, I was a little concerned when we learned that Scott was
the point guy for the Carlton Group in protecting this house.
Is this River Edge estate? I was like, if, if the Carlton
Group put this together with Scott and lead, it's
impermeable. You know, there's no getting
past this. And to have the dog fool the AI
detectors who, you know, let thedeer through and other wildlife.
(16:41):
Absolute brilliant move. Brilliant.
It's kind of fun. By the way, that house actually
exists. It's just north of.
It's just north of of Mount Vernon and just north of that is
actually where Nicholas posts upand parks his van the the
Horticulture Society of America.I've been there.
Yeah. Oh, so you've been there.
All right. So, you know, so it's kind of,
(17:03):
it's kind of cool. The house actually that that
Harvath hits is for sale. So there's tons of pictures of
it on Zillow. There's a lot of times in like
Brendan Rodgers house in this book that's just South of
Langley in McLean. That place was for sale.
So a lot of times I'll go on Zillow, what I'm looking for
like a really cool house and I'll pick it and I'll map
everything out. So those two places, both
(17:26):
Brendan Rodgers Place and then the the estate that Harvest has
to hit are both places that werefor sale as I was writing the
book. That's incredible.
Yeah. When you mentioned River's Edge
was the house, I was like, huh, this is sounding an awful lot
like River Farm, which is the Horticultural Society.
And then you told us it was right next to.
I was like, Brad's got his finger on.
(17:46):
I've been in DC almost 20 years and every time I read a book
that gets DC and the surroundingarea right, it's so it's so
refreshing and obviously you know the area so well yourself.
Everything checked out and even new neighborhoods like the
Wharf. Oh yeah, I love the Wharf.
I love the and how about how about our path wanting to have
(18:06):
plenty of antibiotics once he got out of the river.
Oh, of course that that's very accurate, like.
That's. Totally accurate.
At least he wasn't swimming in the Anacostia though, because
that's. Oh God no, no, the.
Antibiotics aren't even going tosave you there, no.
No, no, no. Restaurants too.
We know you're a foodie, and we know Scott and Nicholas are
foodies. Hank's Oyster Bar is and Pisco
Inaska are those two of your favorites in DC.
(18:28):
There are two places that I like.
I mean, I really like the Wharf.I think what they did at the
Wharf is way, way cool. I spent some time there over the
winter, so it was really or in in the fall too.
Yeah. So I just, I love that whole
area. And there's just all those cool
restaurants along the Wharf and there's a politics and pros
bookstore over there as well. So it's kind of a kind of a
(18:51):
neat, neat place. So I like that area.
So I like to put places that I've been, you know, that's,
that's half the half the fun. Yeah.
And right across from the Wharf,if you're on the Wharf, you
know, you're eating, you're looking out, You see Haynes
Point E Potomac Park, one reallycool setting, a National Park
Service park, really cool setting for a thriller one day.
But there's also a golf course there.
(19:12):
And so looking at the Wharf, playing golf, it's.
Yeah. I just still can't believe you
had Nicholas ride the dog. I can't get over it.
It's. Really sticking with you.
That's good. I'm glad I did my job then.
I nearly lost lost my mind with that one.
But you know who else sticks with you?
The villains. We talked a little bit about it,
but we see on social media your your amazing blog post, 5 Fast
(19:35):
Facts. But one of my favorite themes of
Brad Thore social media is straight out of the straight out
of series. Yeah.
That's fun. When everyone or yourself
reposts an article that something is ripped right from
the headlines, you know, right from your books into the
headlines. I have a list here of seven or
eight things that that happened.It's just unbelievable.
(19:56):
I'm reading this and the NATO summit just this morning.
I'm seeing all these clips of a press conference regarding NATO
and so much in the last electioncycle turning on a president for
not staying true to campaign ideals.
When a populist president gets into office and has to actually
deal with the swamp. That's the VP says America First
in his speech as he's trying to usurp power.
(20:19):
The podcast. The Coughlin podcast was a real
interesting take because just look at the last election cycle,
the influence of Joe Rogan or Theo Von and these other new
media. When are we going to see you on
Joe Rogan I? Don't know.
I'm I'm not a I'm not a big Rogan guy.
I don't know. I don't know if I don't know if
(20:40):
I'll ever be on there. I mean, I don't have a problem
with them either way. I just don't know what I I don't
know if he's a big book guy and he likes to talk thriller books.
You know, I'm not, I'm not sure.I'll say one of the things that
I really prided myself on in this book in the first review we
got for it was very complimentary that you know
what, there's no, there isn't politics.
There isn't taking one side. It was right down the middle so
(21:03):
that this book can be enjoyable for everyone.
And that that that Coughlin podcaster guy is actually based
on a real really terrible radio show host from decades and
decades and decades ago, from like the 30s or 40s.
Father Coughlin, who was a real demagogue and a bad guy that
they ran out of the radio business who was very, very
(21:25):
damaging for American culture and things like that.
So that's where that last name comes from for that for that
guy. So that's a little Easter eggy
type thing that's in there. So this idea that this guy is
trying to rile people up, I've always been fascinated by the
French Revolution and the different factions, particularly
the Jacobins, and this desire toforce through a change, to say
(21:49):
the people are too dumb to vote.So we're going to take matters
into our own hands and we're going to force what we want onto
the rest of the country. And that was the inspiration for
Edge of Honor, that there is this shadowy cabal.
They, as you said, that there's a new administration.
This is the youngest president since Kennedy.
He was very popular and he gets in and part of it, I'm going to
(22:12):
actually admit this came from Dennis Miller, the comedian.
OK, Do you remember? You're probably, I don't know if
you're too young to remember Dennis Miller that.
Sure, I've seen him. He was on the Bill O'Reilly, you
know. Yeah, he was on O'Reilly all the
time. So he used to have a really good
joke about what he thought firstday in the Oval Office was like
for a new president. You get to hop on Air Force One,
you go out to Area 51, you get to get you get to give the the
(22:36):
alien that they have laying on the slab there a purple nerp.
And then you go back to the White House and they drop this
binder in your lap that shows you how serious the world is and
all the stuff that's your responsibility.
So this I was looking for a way.How do I, how do I have a
faction that's maneuvering on the inside to basically collapse
(22:57):
an administration and put their own administration in charge?
Very Jacobin. And this is what this is what I
thought of is to have this groupwant to basically weaken a new
young president who was elected despite, you know, October
surprises and all this kind of stuff, who was super, super
popular. And so that's where the idea
(23:18):
came from. It wasn't like a Trump thing.
It was a, you know, I really wanted to figure out how to
shoehorn in factions. And that's why the epigraph at
the beginning of the book I actually took from George
Washington's farewell address because Washington worried and
warned us about the dangers of factions and what a tyranny 1
(23:40):
faction oppressing other factions can become.
And I mean, they, it goes back and forth.
So today you're the oppressor, tomorrow you're the oppressed.
So, so that idea of a bunch of power hungry people who think,
you know, the voters are stupid.We know what's best for them.
And even though they voted for this one, one group with this
one political party, we're goingto force our will on the rest of
(24:01):
the country. And we don't care how many
people die in the process. So that was the idea for Edge of
Honor. And that worked and that played
out and thank you. I mean, look at something like
the filibuster, right? One party gets in power and all
of a sudden wants to remove thatas a mechanism.
What are you going to do with the next election cycle, or two
or three? Shoes on the other party.
Exactly. And I feel like we're seeing
(24:22):
that more and more and it's, it's not a good path to go down.
And it yeah, no. So from from Washington.
It's a great quote from Washington.
And I'm I, I want people to havejust a really fast, fun beach
read. Take it to the lake, take it to
the pool, take it to the beach and just keep turning those
pages and those crisp, short cinematic chapters.
So that kind of stuff was was fun for me to, you know, listen,
(24:47):
you can never go wrong making politicians the bad guys.
You know, there isn't a big contingency out there that's
going to be upset by that, you know, so.
Sure, sure. It takes me back to the Smoking
Room and Lions of Lucerne opening up with yeah, with the
senators and the oil executives.At at Senator Fawcett's estate
in Lake Geneva. Yeah.
That they're sitting there discussing.
(25:09):
Basically, they're going to kidnap the president to push
through, to remove the presidentfrom the scene so that the vice
president will pass the decidingvote for their piece of
legislation. Yeah.
And Speaking of the politics of it all, the other quote in the
book that floored me was right after the VP gives the America
First speech, clearly wants to usurp things and Senator
(25:33):
Blackwood is sitting there and says, but will it play in
Peoria? And I'm just.
Like this is an old expression, yeah.
These characters are, it's that kind of BS in that political,
you know, political speak. You know, like I said earlier,
Vince Flynn's books were always the politicians, the bad guys.
We even said they were the secondary villains.
The cabal of villains here is phenomenal.
And and another thing you said was these crisp chapters.
(25:56):
I noticed that right from the beginning.
I was wondering why. Like I said, I finished this
book in 16 hours. I started at 10:00 PM one night,
didn't go to bed till 2. AMI was like, I know I don't put
these books down, but this one is sucking me in even more than
usual. And I it was the crisp, quick
chapters that just kept me on myfeet, kept me on my toes.
And not to mention that opening action scene.
(26:17):
What was it? Did you get to see our post?
I took the book over to. Yes, I reshared it.
I was gonna, I've been waiting to bring that up here.
I thought it was fantastic. I, I don't think I'll ever be
invited back to the Norwegian Ambassadors residence again.
I've been there a couple times inside, but I probably with with
doing what I did in the book, you know, who knows what's going
to happen? I'm sure it's fine.
(26:38):
I mean, I'm sure they love, you know, having Norway feature so
prominently in the book. And I certainly love writing
about them because I think they're such a cool NATO partner
and that's such a cool part of the world and such a beautiful
campus that they have for the ambassador's residence.
And, and you did such a great job.
If, if, if no one has seen it, they need to look at what you
filmed actually show that intersection, because you really
(27:00):
do have the Papal embassy. And across the street cross
34th, you've got the Norwegian ambassador's residence and
behind that, the embassy down 34th.
And then right across the two from the 2 is the Naval
Observatory where the vice president's residence is.
And I thought, OK, this is really interesting.
And that's, I wanted to make these guys so bad, the bad guys
that they'd attack their own supporters to get their people
(27:23):
riled up, that they would sacrifice and just murder their
own people who are at a protest.So, yeah, that was that was
wild. I've, I've been at that
intersection so many times and I'm sitting there thinking, wow,
it'd be wild if a bomb went off here or somebody started
shooting and. And another added element is
how, and I don't know the protocols and the rules of
(27:44):
engagement, but you've got so much police presence there yet I
don't know, would the Secret Service leave the premises of
the the compound? You know they wouldn't, right.
Even if it's another embassy. Not that it's not their job.
It's not their job because how do you know it's not a ruse to
pull you out, Like. And and then they go in and they
(28:07):
attack the vice president's residence.
So their job is to stay there. Unfortunately, that's not their
job, man. So, yeah.
So that was the, that was the, you know, I had to make sure the
readers understood that because it's like, why didn't those guys
move? They don't care about the
American people kind of a thing.That's not their job, dude.
It's like if my babysitter hears, you know, a car alarm
going off 2 blocks down, she doesn't have to leave my kids,
(28:30):
you know, in front of a boiling pot of water for macaroni and
cheese while she goes and figures out why a car alarm is
going off. That's not her job.
No, completely. And and the fact that you
explained that so well, it made sense.
Like everything in this book, itall checked out.
It all kept the plot moving and I think balance, like I said
before, I think this book is just so well balanced, even the
competing storylines, because itwas equally fun wondering about
(28:54):
Senator Blackwood and his mistress and being a thriller
reader of all these years. I was like, I know something's
fishy with with her. I don't know what it's going to
be. And then that meet in Woodley
Park, yet another DC neighborhood.
My school's right. Like I said, near politics and
prose. Just a few miles away from
Woodley Park, another neighborhood you describe just.
Absolutely. Yeah, Yeah.
(29:16):
And thank you. So it's fun.
And I mean, that apartment building that they met in
exists. It's a legit apartment building
and stuff. And yeah, it was just kind of,
it was just kind of fun to just all of a sudden have her handler
go whoop, you're leaving, you'rewhat?
You're leaving, you're out, we're pulling.
Shocking, yeah, yeah. And that's, that was just fun.
And I don't outline my books. I mean, I'm very organic, very
(29:39):
instead of a plotter, I'm a pantser, so it's very much
seated pants. So everyday I come in, I don't
know what's going to happen in the story till I sit down and
I'm I'm working on it. So, yeah, I mean, that was a
that was a lot of, that was a lot of fun doing that kind of a
switch right at the end there like that.
Yeah, and that and that is kind of when the climactic action is
(30:00):
building, we're kind of racing to this finish line, whether
it's taking down the white nationalist.
I mean, you're writing about this Iron Tree group.
And in my mind, I'm just visualizing, you know, the
Shenandoah, Appalachia and, and different places and how these
people are so radicalized and, and the like the Patriot Front,
these marching groups with theirkhakis.
And I'm thinking all these guys with their tattoos, Nashville,
(30:23):
those. Guys are on our streets all the
effing time, these guys. So so much fun taking them down
watching. It was a lot of fun.
To take them down was fun. The background information when
I, when you have Carolyn and Fields discussing kind of this
lost boy syndrome where these people are economically
disadvantaged. They're not seeing the rise in
(30:43):
wages that their parents and their grandparents saw when I
talk about. But this being the first
generation that's not as upwardly mobile, all that stuff
is legit real stuff. And it does, it does make people
susceptible to certain messages.So, you know, we used to worry
about, we used to worry about homegrown jihadism, people that
would get radicalized online by foreign Muslim preachers and
(31:07):
things like that. We have another kind of problem
with radicalism here. It doesn't mean that every white
person's a neo Nazi and all thatkind of stuff.
But the, the, the ground is veryfertile in certain pockets for
people who are angry that don't understand what's going on.
All they know is that the systemdoesn't seem to be looking out
(31:27):
for them, doesn't care for them.So there's, there's an ability
there to kind of work, work people through.
One of my favorite things, though, and I, I couple of
people have commented on it fromthe book that I actually laughed
at when I was when I was writingit.
You know, I've, if I laugh at myown joke, and I don't often
laugh at my own jokes. But if I do, it's when they go
up to the House of that one white nationalist, that Iron
(31:49):
Tree guy who left, who they threatened if you leave, blah
blah blah, blah, blah. Yeah, in the.
Hospital. Yeah, with a son in the
hospital. And so they go up and Carolyn
sees like the Confederate flag on the door and ask feels if she
wants to stand in front of them and not.
Yeah, that was good. That was a great touch.
And he can say that because of how much they give each other
(32:12):
the business like I love. That that starts in chapter 5
when when he makes a comment about The X-Files and and she's
like, she goes, what, Black people can't watch The X-Files
and he goes, Jesus, not again. That's like his lie.
Not again. Yeah, exactly.
It's not a black white thing. You're too young.
But I loved when he was just like, oh, Jesus, here we go.
(32:34):
Not again. You know, it's like she's trying
to pin him down and she does it on purpose.
She needles him. She knows he's he doesn't care
what color her skin is, but she pretends like it's a big deal,
which just and it's like her, she makes fun of him with the
coffee orders all the time to embarrass him.
And it's just like he drinks frilly coffee and he just drinks
it black. But she announces, you know,
(32:56):
some very, very, I don't want tocall him feminine coffee orders,
but some coffee orders that a guy that big at the FBI, you
would not think he drinks and hedoesn't.
But she loves to embarrass him. You can't beat Sugar Bear though
when she gives him the Sugar Bear.
That is just the ultimate nickname.
That one better stick. That one, you know, that's the
one that sticks. Yeah.
And the second everyone else at the Bureau finds out about it,
(33:17):
that's. Exactly, exactly so.
So much fun in this book, but a big kind of element we're
missing here is that after Shadow of Doubt, things could
have gone a number of ways. Because they're married, Scott
and Salvi. Could have been the end of
Harvath. It could have just been the end.
They rode off into the sunset and that was it.
(33:37):
That was it. And there's so many times
earlier in the Series 2 where wethink he's stepping away or he's
looking for this other part of his life to settle down.
And him finding Solvy was so important in the series.
And then I just go, but how willthey operate together?
And I think this book really solves that problem that comes
up in a lot of thrillers is how do you have an apex predator be
(33:59):
vulnerable with a significant other?
And I think the two of them are just a match.
It's a perfect match. And I was wondering where you go
with it. And this book I think was a
perfect again, balance of them being on the same team.
Yeah, I, I, I it was fun to do that.
And Harvath, ever since she was introduced, has said, you know,
the only advantage that he has over her is that he's been at it
(34:21):
longer. So he has more experience.
But in his estimation, he said this repeatedly.
She's smarter, she's got better instincts.
She's more capable, more talented.
I mean, he's been very generous in his opinion of her.
Again, the only thing he's got that she doesn't is, is a lot
more experienced. It's because he's older than her
and he's been at it longer. So he has a lot of respect for
(34:42):
her abilities and everything. And I, I love the fact that
they're both so broken that they've had really bad personal
lives up to this point. So the idea of them finding each
other, people like it moved really fast.
And I'd be like, you'd be surprised.
People who have had had it rough, if they find something
that good, they grab onto both hands.
(35:02):
I've seen it happen. If they're smart enough to
realize they've got something great and that it might not ever
come along again, you grab it ashard as you can.
And they both did. God bless him.
It wasn't him chasing her or herchasing him.
They both realized. And they were just like, F it,
We'll, we'll make it work. And you know, we we go back to
where was it? It was the end of I'm looking at
(35:24):
my books here. That's why I'm looking off
camera. But I think about rising tiger
and how many that came after near dark.
So the end of the year dark or the beginning of near dark.
Basically the Carlton group was going, you're out of vacation
days, dude. You either, you know, you either
submit your resignation or get back here.
So that was always going to be aproblem was kind of that
(35:45):
geographic issue between the twoof them and how do they maintain
a relationship. And Near Dark she came on so
strong and then Rising Tiger andEven Dead Fall to a point.
I'm wondering what role does shehave to play in his life?
And they worked through that andthey had to get through that and
now they can be a little more settled.
Just like this book being a July4th DC based book, everything
(36:07):
seems to be settling into place as it should.
Once we got the villains out of the way.
Bob McGee, not to quote an author back to himself.
A Bob McGee says quote life is all about the timing.
It's true work. So.
True. Bob McGee.
I went through the police Academy in Illinois, and Bob
McGee is a combination of two instructors that I had at the
(36:31):
police Academy. Very, very funny, flippant men
who'd seen a lot were very wise,very worldly, and it seemed the
worst of what mankind was capable in their capable of, in
their careers in law enforcement.
And so it's, it's funny because that character is, is often
times an homage to these two, two instructors that I, that I
(36:55):
liked very, very much. I was a writer at the time.
And there's, there's a program in Illinois where you can do it
like the National Guard and you can go on the weekends and
there's some online stuff so youdon't have to sit in classroom
stuff all the time. But it just takes longer that if
you went to the Academy for six weeks, 8 weeks, whatever it may
be. And it was funny because about
1/3 of the way through, I'd find, like, with the online
(37:19):
course material, there'd be like, massive typos that would
actually change the question. And I get the question wrong.
And I'm like, no, no, no, I got the question right.
And eventually they Googled me. It's really funny.
They hadn't Googled me up to that point.
And so for the rest of my time at the police Academy, they
called me Castle. Like that TV show where the
writers working with the detective and his name is
(37:40):
Castle, and he wears the raid vest that says writer.
It doesn't even say police, It says writer.
And the TV show was called Castle.
So for the rest of my time there, they called me Castle.
Put your hand down, Castle. FBI windbreaker that says author
on the back. Author on the back.
Yeah, the Big Blue windbreaker with gold on it.
Author. Exactly.
Yeah, you're investigating the crime scene to write a book, not
(38:01):
to, you know, solve the. Mystery.
Exactly. Exactly.
Well, Brad, this has been a lot of fun.
Everyone who listened to this has already read Edge of Honor.
So go out there, give it a five star review, repost, get the
word out there that this is not only the book of the summer,
this is the book of 2025. So far it's my favorite and I
think it will withstand the next, you know, six months or
(38:24):
so. Yeah, great book.
Wow, I'm honored. Thank you.
And and listen, you guys are always, I don't know anybody who
pulls less punches than you guysdo.
You're always very honest. It's all very fair.
But I really respect both of youguys for how much attention you
take, how much care you take. And I mean, it is wild for me to
(38:47):
sit and listen to your podcast about my own books, but it's,
it's just so great. It's like having this very
intelligent focus group and to hear what you like, what you
know, you know, what worked, what didn't necessarily work for
you. And you guys don't always agree.
I mean, right down the covers. I mean, you guys look at the
international covers and all that kind of stuff.
So just know as an as an author,I appreciate the hell out of
(39:09):
you. Hey, I'm glad to hear that, and
I hope you don't take it too personally because we know how
much you pour yourself into the books, but that's why we do it.
We think we see a lot online of the cheerleading, and we're glad
that a lot of media and interviews help spread the word
because ultimately we too want that as fans, as more authors
being supported in their craft, pushing more content so that we
can enjoy it. But at the same time, we think
(39:30):
when something's good, it deserves critique or it deserves
your full attention. And so we want to dig into it
instead of just, you know, post.This is the greatest book ever.
Be a prisoner of the moment, youknow, favored one in the series
every year. One, you'll lose credibility and
and two, if it's not, it's stilla very good book to enjoy.
And it might play its role in the series and, you know, might
(39:50):
have a a message and a story to tell.
It doesn't need to be the best one.
It might do something unique to advance the characters in our
opinion. And that's really important
overall, if you look at the series.
So I think this one is right up there.
Thank you. Loved it.
And the last thing I got to ask you is you did have a dark blue
2010 Malibu, right? That's your favorite car you
ever own? No, I never owned a Chevy
(40:14):
Malibu, but that I mean, that was another listen, I, you can
tell I had fun writing this book, you know what I mean?
And so that, you know, getting that car that didn't have the
air conditioning and you know, it was just, it was just, it
was, it was it's my 25th book, for crying out loud.
I'm like, if I can't have fun now at this point in my career,
still deliver. And I'm thrilled to hear how
(40:35):
much you enjoyed the book. But I, I'm able to, you know,
take the work seriously, but notnecessarily take myself that
serious. And, and that, that that was the
key here was to have fun, which is weird if you're building an
amusement park and you're havingfun while you're building the
ride. But I, I had a lot of fun
building this ride. So I'm glad to hear that you
enjoyed it. It's all that matters.
(40:56):
That's the most important thing,actually.
That old Chesterton quote Why can angels fly?
They take themselves so lightly.Oh, that's a great quote.
Great. I probably butchered it, but you
know, Chesterton's the master ofthat.
All right, Brad, great to have you on.
As always, appreciate everythingyou do and thanks for spending
the time on Thriller Pod. My pleasure, thanks for having
(41:17):
me. Good luck with the tour.
Thanks got to thank our patrons,including our special, our
deputy director, special deputy director, Sherry F, our special
operator, Jason C, our special agents, Ben, Darrell, Kevin,
George, Matt, Don, Peggy, Mark and Chris.
Subscribe or interview to all three seasons of No Limits.
You can find us at third pod.comor on Twitter and Instagram.
(41:41):
And as always, just let Scott beScott.
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