September 12, 2025 • 42 mins
The adventures of Ben and Raife! Jack Carr superfans Chris and Mike break down episodes 2 and 3 of The Terminal List: Dark Wolf on Amazon Prime Video. SPOILER WARNING: We are the thriller deep-dive after show!
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(00:17):
Hey, guys, I'm Chris. And I'm Mike.
And welcome back to this week's No Limits the Dark Wolf podcast.
How's it going today, Mike? Good man.
I'm excited for episode 2 of ourDark Wolf coverage.
And for folks who don't know we are the thriller after show.
(00:38):
We will be spoiling books and TVshows.
Today we're spoiling episode 2 of the Dark Wolf series in the
terminal list on Amazon Prime. But usually we're spoiling books
two and three. Episodes two and three we
usually spoil books. Today we're spoiling those
episodes. If you haven't heard our
coverage of episode 1, we had a great time talking about how was
(01:00):
for me, everything I wanted in ATV Show, bringing to life
characters like Ben Edwards, RayFastings, and MO Farooq.
Today we're doing episodes two and three, but before we do, we
have to give a special thank youto our patrons.
Our patrons in the Thriller Pod Book Club are the ones who keep
this podcast alive. So if you want to help support
the pod, you will be the reason we can make more podcast.
(01:22):
Just head to thrillerpod.com. Click the Patreon tab to join
the book club. Join the group chat and there's
always Thriller talk going on inthe group chat day and night.
The Thriller talk never stops atthrillerpod.com.
Boom, baby. Yeah, like surprising we haven't
gotten much action about this the season.
(01:43):
I guess we need to we need to spicing it up a little bit and
get get everyone's opinion. But anyways, me and you, we're
here to talk episode 2 and threeand boy Mike, I'm ready to talk
to episode 2 and three later. So coming off episode 1, I'd
said I gave the score B plus it may be an A minus depending on
(02:04):
the curve, you know? That's going up today, right?
Oh, 500% episodes two and three they're.
Hitting. Awesome.
And I think you know it. I think because it makes that
hard shift from being a militaryepisode with elements of like,
(02:26):
you know, spycraft and stuff like that to to truly being like
a spy show. And we're getting to see more
and more of Ben Edwards in his element in his transition like
this. This guy who, you know, Rafe
even says, you know, you're going to have the ability to put
(02:48):
the brakes on. And he's like, at the end, he's
like, fuck the brakes, fuck the brakes.
He is he is ready and willing it, you know, even just to get a
little bit more of, of, of Rafe and have him play a bigger role
and to see this, you know, team that's that's evolving and you
know, finally, like I, I realized that Oh shit, like I
(03:11):
said on the last episode, that'sMO Farooq and we get we get MO
more of MO and MO MO more of MO great actor, love him.
And then Landry, like getting, getting Landry in here and like,
you know, bringing him back, youknow, like he was very minor.
Like like you had said in the last episode, they mentioned his
(03:32):
name. It kind of was like, wait, why
is his name so familiar? And now bringing him back in,
he's part of the team. It clicks and you know, we're
not going to spoil like anythingabout that.
We want you guys to. Well, first of all, we don't
know what's going to be revealedin the series about the
character. And and two, let's just say him
(03:54):
and MO season or book two true believer, very important
characters. And you know, if you haven't
read that book, I highly encourage you to go read it.
Come back and you know, we listen to our podcast about it.
We we covered it on the the was it the thriller podcast at the
(04:14):
time, or was it the mid tripod? I forget.
But anyways if you search I think it was no limits.
I think it's a Jackass. You will find our episodes.
Let's just plug ourselves because yeah, this this Feed the
Thriller podcast is season 3 of the No Limits Extravaganza.
Season 1 we covered all the Mitch rap books by Vince Flynn,
Kyle Mills, and now Don Bentley.Season 2, we did all the Brad
(04:37):
Thor books about Scott Harvath. So if you're into the books, you
love those series, check them out.
But I think what really made us start the Thriller pod was we
wanted to cover so much more. And really Jack Carr, I would
say, was that next series that we wanted to dedicate something
to. And on the Thriller pod, we've
done, boy, probably hundreds of books, 10s of different authors
(04:57):
probably. And it really was kicked off
because we wanted somewhere to dedicate to Jack Carr without
always comparing it to Mitch Rapor always comparing it to Scott
Harvath. So we really start started the
Thriller podcast as a season, the one you're watching right
now, subscribe, hit that button.But we started because we
thought Jack Carr deserved that level of coverage.
We did all the books, we did theTV show, we did extra episodes,
(05:21):
even interviewed him. And then that spurred us onto so
many other spy and military authors that we we got to cover.
So he really inspired a lot of what we're doing here on this
pod. And so to see not only his James
Reese character come alive, but give the due diligence and the
time to let Ben, Rafe, MO Landry, all these other
(05:42):
characters come into the fore. And I would say ultimately,
what's a sign of respect to a universe is if you can create
something beyond the books that is so in line in universe or in
spirit of what the original author intended.
And to me, this series is doing that, bar none.
(06:03):
And another character you and I didn't even mention yet who
deserves might be the winner of the pod.
We didn't do winners and losers last episode for episode 1, but
every time we cover a book, we do winners and losers.
Jed motherfuking Haverford. Jed Haverford's entrance in
episode 2 and everything he doesthrough episode 3 is phenomenal.
(06:27):
Phenomenal acting, story, dialogue, writing, and perhaps
the most important part, it's soJack Carr esque.
Everything about him is the later Jack Carr where Reece
Reef. All these guys are dabbling with
it with the CIA. Some hate it Hastings family, so
some are learning to love it. Reece, you know, bringing in the
(06:49):
CIA in this way through a character like Jed almost is a
nod to James Reese's father fromthe books, which we're going to
get in just a few months with the next book.
Also also Victoria Rodriguez, all the people in the books who
were CIA. Jed Haverford is like this
perfect encapsulation of all of that.
But it's outside the books, which shows, right?
(07:11):
You respect the universe, you respect the readers, you respect
the author. And I think his character is
just so terminalist. It's it's, it's unbelievable.
I was going to say like Robert Wisdom as Jed Haverford is just
is is crushing it. I don't know if any of you have
watched one of my favorite actors from the Wire Bunny like
(07:35):
the the police, he's the police chief or he's high up in the
police anyways, but great actor on that show is killing it here.
Like his opening scene buying the Blanton's you you heard him
say 2 Blanton's right. Yeah.
And then, you know, him popping up back at the the swimming pool
(08:00):
and then, you know, seeing him act as this Thomas Stansfield
esque, you know, you know, operator, you know, but you
know, elevated, you know, the mastermind behind this and
bringing this coalition togetherlike.
Who's been there, done that? I don't know who put in his
time. It's and I don't know, he has
(08:22):
like immediate buy in for me. Like I I immediately like
recognized who he was. He obviously establishes his
bona fides quick and you could understand why Ben Edwards like
immediately respects him and is immediately bought in and and
wants to you know, he's obviously very good at being
ACIA case officer and recruiting, you know, you know,
(08:44):
because he quickly, you know, I feel like the having this hard
transition, like having this, you know, weird at the airport
or not at the airport, but. Yeah.
At the hotel, you know, just right after they got, you know,
let go like a conveniently the CIA happened to be there.
(09:05):
It kind of like all fit for me. I don't know, like it.
It just worked. It's so.
He, he's doing the work as the actor to like to, to, to make
that happen. I agree, it also came after a
moment where Taylor Kitsch was forced to fake it or Ben Edwards
was forced to fake it. This was such a disgraceful
(09:26):
thing being kicked out of the teams.
I mean just think about that goodbye at the helicopter right
where he's leaving the base. This is such a world earth
shattering event. You have to get swept away with
the tide. You know, you can't fight it.
And so you just have to put on this false front.
And he's talking about getting motorcycles going out into the
(09:48):
Black Forest in Germany, doing all these crazy things.
And, you know, Rafe is just staring at him like, what?
Who, Who the hell is this? Who are you?
And it's at that moment where Jed preys on your
vulnerabilities, right? He knows.
It's kind of like, what's that saying if you want somebody to
(10:09):
do your bidding, find what they so desperately crave and give
them the tools to master it. Find what it is they want and
make them believe that you can give it to them, you know, or
make them believe that with yourassistance, they'll be able to
do it. And like, then they're, they're
so reliant on you and, and Jed, he does that to Ben.
(10:33):
But at the same time, it's mutual.
Ben needs him as much as he's going to need Ben.
Like he's got the time sensitiveOP, this, this nightclub hit
where now he's going to be. So he needs a guy like Ben.
He needs a shooter. As he says, I need 2 shooters.
It's time sensitive. But Ben's also lost, you know,
this motorcycle and all this other shit he's talking about is
like he's, he's swimming. He does not know how to deal
(10:54):
with the grief of losing the brotherhood, being kicked out of
the teams. And she gives him the tools to
say, you can still have purpose.You can still be on mission.
Mission's going to look a littledifferent.
And the same things that pissed you off and made you snap when
you killed algebra, that made you go outside the chain of
command. I'm going to let you do that.
(11:15):
I want you to do it. I need a guy to improvise.
I need a guy to think outside the box with your skill set.
He's given him everything he wants, and you can't say no.
You know that? Sold.
Right. And I guess we're led to believe
that there there had to have been some time past between the
(11:35):
very end of last episode and where we pick up on this episode
like it. Some.
They obviously had to do some sort of investigation.
They had to interview all of them.
So like, you know, yeah, it's, it's it's quick cut between
here, them being discharged to them, you know, getting on a
plane end up in Germany like so.But obviously Jed had enough
(11:59):
time to go to the site, interview the the witnesses and
like, you know, so let's say there's at least a week or so
has gone by weeks. And he obviously being a trained
CIA operative sees that, oh, I have an opportunity here.
Yeah, they might have burnt our our asset.
(12:20):
But in doing so, we've now gained something better.
And let's let's see how we can benefit from this.
Well, I think that's also part of the problem is what Ben's
sick of is nobody sees the bigger picture, which is mission
accomplished. And instead the CIA guys who are
making the calls on the field, affecting our operators and
(12:41):
putting them in harm's way only see their slice of the pie.
Algebra is our asset. We need him.
He's giving us our Intel. Bridget realizes algebra.
It's one little slice of the pie, 1 little cog and machine.
I can put you on bigger and better things.
I got a team running OPS that wedon't care about.
That one asset, you offed him. No big deal.
Where most of the CIA leadershipis screaming, I want heads for
(13:04):
that. Heads need to roll for that.
And it's like you sometimes got to step away and see what's the
best way to accomplish this mission.
Don't get so hung up on your oneasset who died and want to kick
out, you know, any of the military guys who made that
call. Go ahead and and run some OPS
and and do these bigger picture things, which is part of what
the nightclub scene is to get toget Denali and episode 3.
(13:27):
Holy crap, we pivot again. Now it's about Iranian nukes and
a nuke deal. So, yeah, like we should, yeah.
We quickly escalate to, you know, when we finally get to
like the end of episode 3 where,you know, Fariq obviously posing
as Denali, meets with this geologist who happens to have a
(13:47):
a nuclear research lab, giving him these bearings to be able
to, you know, do these centrifuges much faster, stuff
like that. I don't know.
It's super compelling. And obviously, you know,
they're, they're realizing that,you know, shit is changing in
real time and the stakes are being upped like immediately.
(14:08):
And we've we've caught on to something big and we have to go.
And that, I think, backs up the switch from Episode 1 to Episode
2 and three. We can't be this very myopic.
We're downrange in Mosul trying to save the city.
That's like a very important mission.
But it's only one part of this bigger global War on Terror.
(14:30):
And so now a guy who is selling weapons, selling bombs and
material in Mosul is connected to some nuclear deal going on in
Iran. And there's financiers and
there's this European guide, right?
The guy in the nightclub who is who is passing the money along.
Like there's a bigger picture. So what the guy's doing down
range is like super important, but what Jet is selling is you
(14:53):
can do so much more than that. And I don't know where they go.
I, I don't like when a story just becomes nuke on the loose.
So if it just becomes let's stopIran's nuclear program because
we don't want nukes on the loose, that's one thing.
But I don't know. I it's like a pivot that does
enough to be like, OK, this is going to be something new.
This is going to be a big storyline, but I don't know
exactly what that storyline willbe.
(15:15):
So I'm excited about that. And, and Mossad's involved,
right? Let's up the stakes even more
this Mossad CIA joint operation.That's the other thing I I
don't, obviously I have not watched episodes 4:00 and 5:00,
so I don't know. This is pure speculation on my
part. For some reason I don't trust
Eliza. I feel like she has this.
(15:39):
I don't know, I feel like massage is going to do what
massage, what massage wants to do.
We've seen this time in and timeout in name, any of series, any
of our series we've covered where they've dabbled into the
massage stuff. She's an interesting character
and obviously there's some romantic involvement between her
and Edwards. Her introduction as a character
was freaking awesome. Like as a waitress with her as a
(16:02):
waitress. You know, and they're all
guessing who who the the agent is, who's the Mossad asset and
they're all like, you know, Rafeand him are taking bets on it
and whatever. And then when it's the waitress,
she has that look in her eye. I was like, oh, damn, played
play. So I agree.
I don't I wouldn't say it's not that I don't trust her.
(16:25):
I think it would be in characterfor someone of her skill set to
put country first so. Sure, she's going to put her
first for sure. Right right now though, put
country first is work with the team, right?
Join Operation so CIA Mossad, same page, but I either wouldn't
blame her and wouldn't be surprised if something happens
(16:45):
where everybody's expendable from Rafe to Ben to Jed and her
ontologists have to complete themission what's best for their
country. So I wouldn't put it beyond
them. I don't know if I would say it
means I don't trust them, but I would say their self-interest is
clearly, clearly going to supersede any sort of
(17:05):
collaboration with the CIA And and I I would expect that that
would be to me, sure more expected then they're so loyal.
They do anything to protect. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no, you're right. The self-interest above
everything, particularly with the Israelis.
That nightclub scene, awesome. Like getting to see Rafe and
(17:31):
Edwards like in action as these.The the one hang up I did have
is that it's kind of hard for Rafe to be a spy.
He can't play then, man, I'm. Great.
Huge. I completely agree, but I would
say both of them. Ben with his tats, you know, his
clear military operator beard. He's easier to, yeah, I feel
(17:55):
like he's easier to buy as a, asa spy than not.
I agree. You know, I guess they, you
know, they get gussied up, they go to this nightclub.
But yeah, like the suspense thatwe have and, you know, going on
that the, the, the, the chase atthe end, I don't know, I feel
like the town again. Through the village.
With the, with the cinematography of this, like
(18:16):
they do a really good job of like, I don't know, just
propelling the story forward with the visualizations.
Yeah, and it worked in the nightclub, but it also worked in
that village, You're right. Going through the town, how they
split up, they're geolocating each other so they they know
where support is needed. And then ultimately, here's
(18:36):
what's pretty cool is even though they had to be spies,
they were trying to do this undercover thing that kind of
stood out like a sore thumb. You knew that OP would go South
for many reasons. Sure.
So when it went S, nobody was surprised.
But the other thing I like is Jed knew he would need guys of
their caliber because of things like when when a when a
(18:59):
obviously when the CIA is at itsbest, spies aren't going to be
the machine gun heavy shooting people up doing that.
Like you shouldn't even know they were there if they were
successful. But Jed knew it's not a perfect
world. Shit's going to go South.
And he wanted seal guys and he particularly want two guys who
already had that lingo, that relationship.
He wanted hunters. And so when they're hunting and
(19:21):
it comes to the final scene of this guy's cornered, he's a he's
a cornered animal. Rafe and Ben know exactly what
they're going to do. Doesn't even, he just shushes
him and then says exactly in like a few words how they're
going to cover each other. And I thought that was great to
flush him out. You know how Rafe goes, right?
He's going to pie the corner andactually expose himself.
(19:41):
He takes two shots at the brick wall that way.
He makes the guy jump out and Ben is right there on the left
hidden to take down the dude before he can hit Rafe.
They knew being Seal brothers. Exactly what to do in that
situation. There was no if, ands or buts.
There's no chain of command. They knew exactly how to
proceed. And that is part of, I would
(20:03):
say, Jed's genius, that he knew it would come to that at some
point. Yeah, no, 100%.
Makes me like it even more because so many stories that
kind of shit doesn't happen or it's out of the blue or I'm
supposed to believe these guys have been acting like brothers
and operating forever when we just met them and we don't know
who they are In 2, maybe 3 episodes.
(20:26):
You know everything about these two guys, their relationship,
their working relationship down range, their new relationship,
trying to figure out the spy thing.
It's just great banter. I, I, I really enjoy their
dialogue, their action scenes, their facial expressions that
they're playing off each other just so well.
They built that chemistry and it's incredible.
(20:47):
Yeah, I think that is extended in the third episode too, with,
you know, broadening, obviously bringing in this larger team.
I would say that the episode 3 is largely a Mohammed Farooq
episode, you know where he is. You know what, we get to see
more of that character, but thenyou know, also Ben interacting
(21:09):
with Landry. We also have this other guy ish
who I I thought was pretty cool.And then he just gets off to the
end of the third episode. It was like, damn, that was
quick. And he's like a a decently
famous actor. I mean, he's not like super
famous, but you know, Michael, early Michael, he's been in like
a lot of different things and the fact that he just one
(21:31):
episode guilt boom. Yeah, I, I was wondering one,
why that was done. Obviously, I think to raise the
stakes that this these people were dangerous.
The guys surrounding to now are the scientists that they were
going after whoever wanted to stop that deal from happening.
These people were dangerous. So I think it upped the stakes.
(21:52):
But it also there was a short conversation where MO had to go
do the thing which we should talk about.
MO had to go off the girl who turned out to be we thought of
Hezbollah, a Hezbollah kind of acquaintance of Denali.
Turns out she was the daughter and she was really innocent.
Once MO showed his face, I was like, oh shit, he's got to kill
(22:15):
her. And so it clicked what Ish was
telling him of like Ish was like, is it's hard?
Like will this be your first, you know, not first person
you've killed, but first person,like not in a combat role,
right? First person you've killed as a
civilian due to ACIA mission. And it's just like, if you want
to talk about it, MO was like, no, I'm good.
But MO didn't do it. Like Ish is the old school kill
(22:37):
anybody in cold blood. It's part of the mission.
It's I'm a spy, do The Dirty business.
MO is that, but with virtue. And so he didn't do the thing.
And I like how tall I did. You think he killed her or no
when he took that shot? No, I, I, I knew that he didn't
kill her. The way it was filmed, it's like
(22:57):
if if you don't see somebody dieon screen, they're alive, you
know? You know they're not dead.
I didn't think he shot her because the way they filmed that
with just their eyes. I thought they were going to, I
thought they were going to drag that out.
I thought, I thought they were going to drag that out a little
bit more. Like we immediately get clarity
on whether or not he killed her.Like the next scene, the.
Next scene, yeah. I thought that was going to be
like something that, oh, you know, I thought it was going to
(23:22):
be brought up later on in the season.
Like he couldn't be. I don't know.
I don't know how they're going to.
But then I guess it's just it's more, it was more there to
establish his bona fides as MO is not this ruthless guy, you
know, he has a. Cold blooded killer, Yeah.
Yeah, he has a a past, but you know, he's, you know, there to
(23:43):
be trusted. Then they talk about his his
back story when he's explaining to Raul about Uday and the
Americans. You know, let him get the final
shot. Damn.
And what Uday did to his family,that goes right along with what
I said in episode 1, that I likethat Duran and Duran's family
(24:03):
told you, why are we there? You know, why are our guys
losing their lives in Iraq in the sandbox?
It's because Duran's exist. Duran's families exist and
deserve somebody to stand up forthem.
Well, same thing with MO, right?But MO is saying, yes, I need
the Americans, but I'm going to do it myself.
(24:25):
I'm going to build this from theground up.
I'm going to be that guy who builds my country, defends my
country after what you know, theBaath Party and and Saddam and
cronies did. And I think this you're right.
It's as much as it's this nuclear physics, Iran kind of
bent. It's still Moe's episode.
I really think most deals the show.
I also just think it's a throughline of this entire series, this
(24:47):
in harkening back to Episode 1, you know, going back to this,
like what happened to the Iraqi people.
And like, you know, MO even has that monologue like like we
mentioned in the the car of likeyou should have seen what Mosul
was like. We used to be like, you know,
and like. Yeah.
It just gives more empathy to these characters and more, I
(25:10):
don't know, empathy to the entire story.
I mean, you know, like the, IT gives humanity to it all and
understand like why people are are driven to do certain things.
And you know, why someone would want to stop Iran from getting
nuclear weapons because they might, you know, want to take
Iraq completely off the map, youknow, get rid of Mosul
(25:30):
completely. So the, the meet up, the action
scene at the at the at the very end.
Yeah, No, I, I, it's great. I think, you know, anytime we go
into a subway and we're. Right.
I I think that that scene kind of serves again as this
escalation of Edwards as a a villain.
(25:53):
I'm going to keep calling him villain because of ultimately
what he is, but like, you know, his his transformation, we'll
call it. Sure.
Especially like there's a reasonthat they have him look and
smile right at a little girl girl and then off a dude and
then off a dude. That's intense, dude.
Yeah, it's almost like if you didn't know why he did that,
(26:14):
you'd be like, this guy's bipolar.
This is like some crazy stuff. He's sitting looking at the
girl. But mission, man, like mission,
he had to get that photo. He even snaps a photo of the
dead guy after he kills him because that's their only lead,
right? Who was following the scientist
who didn't want the deal to go through?
Who's involved in all this? Yeah.
(26:34):
Oh, and Moe's, Moe's escape. So even before Ben has to go off
and Rafe just misses the train, Right.
So once that moment hits, you'relike, Ben's on his own.
I was like, we're going to see aSEAL SEAL, you know, like the
SEAL going to SEAL right here. But once he was solo, like dark
wolf, right? Lone wolf on that train when
those doors close, I was like, that is a lone dark wolf who's
(26:57):
not going to stop at nothing. Even sitting across from this
little girl, genuinely making eye contact with her, He's not
stopping. That guy's right over there.
And what's got to be done? It's got to be done.
He's a hardliner. He he's the the true believer
right now. So yeah, I I think, I think
that's awesome. But before we get there, equally
as enthralling was MO's escape. How how they got the whole thing
(27:21):
planned down to AT and they haveto go with their third option.
You know, first options cut off,second options cut off.
They're all again, Geo locating each other, knowing where the
turns are. And Tal is on Overwatch.
She's been great. She she's cleaned up some dead
bodies. She's, you know, gotten the van
out of there. She's doing all the tech stuff.
She's a forger, she's getting them documents.
Tal's also the Swiss Army knife,who I really, really like.
(27:44):
Again, she's Mossad though, so how far can that trust go?
We're not sure. But right now I really like her.
I like your conversation with MO.
And ultimately when MO gets out of there, he even has to go
through that like hardware shop and he grabs A sledgehammer
knowing the guy's right there. He's cool, calm, collected.
He's cool as a cucumber as he's mowing dudes down and and
(28:07):
running this SDR to get out of there.
And who is it? Landry comes by with the van.
So I love this team. I love the team up third episode
and you've got me this bought into not only the main
characters, but the secondary team supporting the main
characters. Never thought I would be this
bought in and and I am. Yeah, no, I'm honestly
(28:29):
surprised. I'm honestly really shocked.
Pleasantly surprised. Yeah, especially with, you know,
kind of our reservations and disappointment we were with the
the first seasons of eternal loss, like and you know, maybe
that's just because there's no book to compare this to.
So we what, what we have is whatwe have and we're we're
(28:52):
appreciating it. But like you said, like we've
said before in the last episode and we'll say it again this
episode, I do think they're being true to the universe and
they're being cognizant, respectful and everything fits.
So I'm I'm hooked these two episodes to me ranking a. 100% a
(29:15):
I still. Give AB it's it's an A.
You know, I'm a critic, dude. You know, whether it's books or
TV or movies we've covered in the past, I can find the little
quirks. I can tear it apart.
The little things that go wrong spiral into big things.
They bother me. I can't yell with a story
because there's minor things that are tripping me up.
(29:36):
The buy in factor, right? If, if I can't buy in, I'm out.
I might not even finish that thing.
It's so completely the opposite that it's refreshing because I'm
usually the first and biggest critic of TV shows and movies.
My my thing is don't waste my time if if, if the product is
not quality, I don't want you wasting my time.
So I can turn these things off, I can pull them apart.
(29:57):
And for me to give two straight A's through three episodes, I'm
a harsh critic. So I, I got to say, I think I
think the show is doing phenomenally well.
I it rightfully is deserving allthe praise I've seen it
advertised billboards their their marketing campaign seems
to really be hitting a lot of stuff on social media, a lot of
commentary on YouTube. The terminalist first season did
(30:19):
not have a lot of commentary like third party accounts
wanting to review it, something like a screen rant or these
other groups. Well, now they're doing
interviews with the actors. The marketing wing of this thing
I think is way, way, way higher than it was with the last
season. I think everybody from top down,
Chris Pratt's production team, Amazon, a Jack Carr and his
(30:40):
entourage and Enterprise, they figured it out.
They really figured out the secret sauce.
I did. It has me optimistic about true
believer. True believer, right?
Agreed. Agreed.
One thing though, you said, which really struck me, the best
(31:01):
parts of the Terminalist season 1 were kind of the parts not
from the book. Every time they tried to go to
the book, it got clunky, didn't leave up live up to
expectations. The writers when given the
ability to write in universe butnot in book, did the best script
to the best dialogue, the best screen writing of that season.
(31:22):
And now we're seeing that completely, they're in universe,
respect to the universe, but noton page, which allows them to be
screenwriters, right? Like create dialogue, create
characters, create stories without being tied down to
someone else's vision, Jack Carr's vision.
So I just really like how all that is gelling. 100 percent,
(31:42):
100%. What's next all?
Right, we got dude, I gotta go. I want I'm so today we're
recording episode 5 just dropped.
So like I am, I want to go watchepisode 4 and 5:00 so we can, we
can talk about it like immediately.
Do you like that reveal? Do you like how they didn't dump
them all at once? I kind of do.
(32:05):
Oh yeah, I meant to ask you about that.
Like so they they dropped the first three of at once and now
they're doing it weekly. And this is like a a thing now
that people have done, it's likewe're going to drop a couple
because everyone knows that if you just drop one, the the pilot
watches anymore. No one comes back to the second
(32:25):
Yeah. Unless you have like an amazing
pilot has to be great is going to hit.
Right. No one ever does that.
It's it's at least 2 episodes, 3episodes and then I.
Also didn't like the building drops though of all of it at
once like the COVID era. I I'm glad we moved on from that
to be honest. Well, because terminalist was
(32:45):
all at once, right? Or was it similar?
No, I think they did episodes one and two actually.
You know what? Episodes one and two were both
filmed and written as one giant episode.
So they released one and two at the same time, then weekly.
No, but it it no, it was really all on July 1st.
(33:06):
I remember. That's why it was like so
daunting to me because we had tolike the entire season was, was
dropped. We wanted to cover like every,
every episode. Yeah, you're right.
We obviously didn't have time tolike binge it all and then
record like back-to-back to back.
I like it. It gives us a you're right.
I I, I, I want to get back. I I, I wish we would get back to
(33:29):
these like. The water cooler.
I don't know water cooler moments Like there's no more
like cultural zeitgeist really anymore.
Like unless like a TikTok or or meme hits off, you know, like
Tua, like there's. Buy your meme coins.
(33:51):
There's nothing you, you know, I, I remember back, back to like
Lost. I I mentioned Game of Thrones
before, but Lost, you know, helleven 24 back in the day.
Like 24. I would go West Wing, you know,
real, real back in the day. Yeah, it was the Talk of the
Town or even other these other dramas.
(34:11):
I don't watch them, but the Talkof the Town, that was a drama.
You knew it was the show everybody needed to see.
Mad Men, Breaking Bad, You know,Homeland.
I don't expect anything in the Terminalist to be that, to be
the zeitgeist, the water cooler moment.
I think like sure, I said Rosie said my wife last episode.
(34:33):
It is for a particular demographic, so I don't expect
it to be that wide. But within that demographic,
create a community where those conversations can be had.
Like our book club group chat. If everybody just watched the
whole season and wanted to talk about the end, and then it took
months and months and months forother people to roll it out, we
never really get to have a conversation about it.
(34:53):
What? That's why like a book club,
when you have a dedicated book and people read it, that's a lot
of fun. Sure.
As opposed to everyone's going to read it months apart.
Some people won't remember it, some people have never read it.
I don't expect the Terminalist to be that for the wider
culture, but within this subculture of folks who love
thrillers, military stuff, Jack Cars fanbase, you know, his
(35:14):
faithful to get something like this to talk about each week or
text somebody. What episode you up to?
I watched 30. I'm going to watch 3 tonight and
then, you know, within those small circles to recreate that
is a blast. COVID blew that out of the water
when every single show was just dropped all the time.
Everybody had was at home so many hours they could watch
whatever they wanted in any order they wanted, whenever they
(35:35):
wanted and binge it for as long as they wanted.
Kind of. I grew.
I got tired of that. Yeah, me too.
Like it's, you know, people weredoing watching all of Friends
again. And it's like, yeah, I'd watch
Friends, but I can't remember, you know, back when I was, I
don't know, in fifth grade, like, I probably shouldn't have
(35:58):
been watching the show Friends in fifth grade.
But we like, me and my mom wouldwatch Friends like every
Thursday. I remember like going back and
there was other friends at school that would watch it.
Like having those moments just mean more.
I don't know. I just, it, it, it's like the
Monday Night Football, you know,like you watch your team play,
you go to work and you can talk about it like, right.
(36:20):
It's very hard to do that nowadays because oh, I'm on
season 2 of episode, you know, I'm on episode 8 of season 2.
Oh, I'm on episode 10 of season 12.
Like what? Like, and we're going to have a
one hour conversation about maybe like 7 seasons.
Like get the fuck out of here. Yeah, similar to what kind of
(36:44):
MCU stuff was my buddies at workwas three of us.
We eat lunch all the time. Anytime an an MCU like Phase One
movie came out, it was everything we wanted to talk
about for a week straight. We we'd want to have lunch
together just to talk about thatmovie.
Now there's 37 of them. They're on like Phase 16.
We didn't even talk about them anymore.
At one they became crap. But it's just like they don't
(37:05):
have that the gravity, that gravitas of you see it, you want
to go talk about it. You're anticipating for months
or a year the next one. It's all just like all these
movies just keep coming. I'll I'll watch a few of them.
Some of them are crap, some of them are good.
It's like, no, I want that really well created thing that
you have to wait for and it builds up and everybody watches
(37:25):
it. Then you talk about it.
Yeah, I think like ultimately, you know, streaming has kind of
done that to a lot of things that I think especially with
Disney, like when they I was avid, like I remember, I
remember the day it was my birthday, 2019, going to see end
game in the theatre and like being so excited and that like
(37:49):
that being the pinnacle. And then like, you know, again,
COVID, they're dropping movies day and date the same time
they're in the theatre. You could just watch them
online. Yeah.
It's like, that's weird. I'm glad, I guess, you know,
anyways, we're ranting, we're going off topic, but I think
like, it's glad to see that we're taking a step back from
(38:11):
that and that there's a happy medium we can have, you know,
like, all right, a little bit ofa binge because one, we have to
have at least three episodes nowbecause, or two episodes now
because we're, we're used to that.
But then, you know, I'm, I'm OK waiting a week.
(38:31):
I I want to like, I get excited about when I when an episode
drops, so. Completely, dude.
You remember the feeling sittingin a movie theater and the Star
Wars theme drops and the scrolling text comes up.
That was an unreal feeling. And, and I love the Star Wars
expanded universe stuff and the and and all the other cartoons,
(38:53):
but it's just like, I don't knowif you recreate the feeling of
seeing a Star Wars just opening scene, opening credits drop, cue
the music. It's it's special.
I used. To get like that, seeing the
Marvel, the Marvel logo come up.Marvel had that for a little
while, yeah. The early stuff, the Phase 1
(39:13):
stuff. You get that tingling, you get
that tingly feeling and and thenit's just, it's saturation,
right? Exactly, exactly.
It's over saturated. They started having, they had
you know, talk about they had 6 movies from in like 6 years.
They went from that to having 6 movies in one year.
(39:34):
Yeah. Plus like 5 TV shows.
TV shows you had to keep up with?
Yeah. And and yeah, having everything
interconnected just like, you know, even.
You know what lost me that we'reon a rant now.
What lost me was when the post credit scenes used to be so like
(39:56):
so powerful. The, the, everyone was on the
edge of their seats for the postcredit scenes.
And then it became what? Who's that?
What happened? What?
That person's in which show? I didn't watch that one.
So it's like even these post credit scenes, which they were
like famous for, which was theirbig nail biters, don't leave,
don't leave. You'll be telling other people
in the theater. And now I'm like who who I
(40:18):
don't. Know the ones that create
character right? Like.
Yeah, yeah. But then it got away from them.
The the bit. The bit went too long, you know?
Yeah. Because they they were
impactful, but they ultimately didn't matter.
Yeah, anyways, we're we're goingdown a a a long rant, but
anyways, I think this show againdid bring it back to dark wolf.
(40:44):
You know it doesn't rely on terminal lists.
Season 1 it. No.
It could exist by itself. It's if you watch season 1,
great, if you read the books, great.
If not, it's a pretty good series by itself.
So. I think if you watch this series
just thinking episodes two and three with this pivot to CIA and
(41:05):
these guys being the dark, you know, Ben Edwards being the dark
wolf and these missions are going on.
And then you think of Red Sky morning.
It's it's, it's like they're really in the same universe.
They parallel each other. There's there's so much about
them, you know, Reese being CIA and Dick Rodriguez.
So I just feel like they're respecting the craft, respecting
(41:29):
the tradition and building something even better than what
we already had. And it fits so seamlessly into
the universe. So hats off to the team and
makes you want to read the books.
The series number one thing we have to measure it against is
does it bring new viewers to thebooks?
And so far what I'm seeing, I don't know how it doesn't.
(41:50):
Yeah, no, 100%. All right, so next time we're on
the pod, we will be covering episodes four and five.
Can't wait. Before we get to that episode,
we got to thank our patrons, including our deputy director,
Sherry F, Brad E, our special agents, Adam, Mike, Ben, Daryl,
George, Matt, Dawn and Chris. Please go subscribe to all three
(42:15):
seasons of No Limits. You can find us@thrillerpod.com
or on Twitter and Instagram at Thriller Podcast.
And as always, just let MO be MO.
Hey, guys, I'm Chris. And I'm Mike.
And welcome back to this week's No Limits the Dark Wolf podcast.
How's it going today, Mike? Good man.
I'm excited for episode 2 of ourDark Wolf coverage.
And for folks who don't know we are the thriller after show.
(00:38):
We will be spoiling books and TVshows.
Today we're spoiling episode 2 of the Dark Wolf series in the
terminal list on Amazon Prime. But usually we're spoiling books
two and three. Episodes two and three we
usually spoil books. Today we're spoiling those
episodes. If you haven't heard our
coverage of episode 1, we had a great time talking about how was
(01:00):
for me, everything I wanted in ATV Show, bringing to life
characters like Ben Edwards, RayFastings, and MO Farooq.
Today we're doing episodes two and three, but before we do, we
have to give a special thank youto our patrons.
Our patrons in the Thriller Pod Book Club are the ones who keep
this podcast alive. So if you want to help support
the pod, you will be the reason we can make more podcast.
(01:22):
Just head to thrillerpod.com. Click the Patreon tab to join
the book club. Join the group chat and there's
always Thriller talk going on inthe group chat day and night.
The Thriller talk never stops atthrillerpod.com.
Boom, baby. Yeah, like surprising we haven't
gotten much action about this the season.
(01:43):
I guess we need to we need to spicing it up a little bit and
get get everyone's opinion. But anyways, me and you, we're
here to talk episode 2 and threeand boy Mike, I'm ready to talk
to episode 2 and three later. So coming off episode 1, I'd
said I gave the score B plus it may be an A minus depending on
(02:04):
the curve, you know? That's going up today, right?
Oh, 500% episodes two and three they're.
Hitting. Awesome.
And I think you know it. I think because it makes that
hard shift from being a militaryepisode with elements of like,
(02:26):
you know, spycraft and stuff like that to to truly being like
a spy show. And we're getting to see more
and more of Ben Edwards in his element in his transition like
this. This guy who, you know, Rafe
even says, you know, you're going to have the ability to put
(02:48):
the brakes on. And he's like, at the end, he's
like, fuck the brakes, fuck the brakes.
He is he is ready and willing it, you know, even just to get a
little bit more of, of, of Rafe and have him play a bigger role
and to see this, you know, team that's that's evolving and you
know, finally, like I, I realized that Oh shit, like I
(03:11):
said on the last episode, that'sMO Farooq and we get we get MO
more of MO and MO MO more of MO great actor, love him.
And then Landry, like getting, getting Landry in here and like,
you know, bringing him back, youknow, like he was very minor.
Like like you had said in the last episode, they mentioned his
(03:32):
name. It kind of was like, wait, why
is his name so familiar? And now bringing him back in,
he's part of the team. It clicks and you know, we're
not going to spoil like anythingabout that.
We want you guys to. Well, first of all, we don't
know what's going to be revealedin the series about the
character. And and two, let's just say him
(03:54):
and MO season or book two true believer, very important
characters. And you know, if you haven't
read that book, I highly encourage you to go read it.
Come back and you know, we listen to our podcast about it.
We we covered it on the the was it the thriller podcast at the
(04:14):
time, or was it the mid tripod? I forget.
But anyways if you search I think it was no limits.
I think it's a Jackass. You will find our episodes.
Let's just plug ourselves because yeah, this this Feed the
Thriller podcast is season 3 of the No Limits Extravaganza.
Season 1 we covered all the Mitch rap books by Vince Flynn,
Kyle Mills, and now Don Bentley.Season 2, we did all the Brad
(04:37):
Thor books about Scott Harvath. So if you're into the books, you
love those series, check them out.
But I think what really made us start the Thriller pod was we
wanted to cover so much more. And really Jack Carr, I would
say, was that next series that we wanted to dedicate something
to. And on the Thriller pod, we've
done, boy, probably hundreds of books, 10s of different authors
(04:57):
probably. And it really was kicked off
because we wanted somewhere to dedicate to Jack Carr without
always comparing it to Mitch Rapor always comparing it to Scott
Harvath. So we really start started the
Thriller podcast as a season, the one you're watching right
now, subscribe, hit that button.But we started because we
thought Jack Carr deserved that level of coverage.
We did all the books, we did theTV show, we did extra episodes,
(05:21):
even interviewed him. And then that spurred us onto so
many other spy and military authors that we we got to cover.
So he really inspired a lot of what we're doing here on this
pod. And so to see not only his James
Reese character come alive, but give the due diligence and the
time to let Ben, Rafe, MO Landry, all these other
(05:42):
characters come into the fore. And I would say ultimately,
what's a sign of respect to a universe is if you can create
something beyond the books that is so in line in universe or in
spirit of what the original author intended.
And to me, this series is doing that, bar none.
(06:03):
And another character you and I didn't even mention yet who
deserves might be the winner of the pod.
We didn't do winners and losers last episode for episode 1, but
every time we cover a book, we do winners and losers.
Jed motherfuking Haverford. Jed Haverford's entrance in
episode 2 and everything he doesthrough episode 3 is phenomenal.
(06:27):
Phenomenal acting, story, dialogue, writing, and perhaps
the most important part, it's soJack Carr esque.
Everything about him is the later Jack Carr where Reece
Reef. All these guys are dabbling with
it with the CIA. Some hate it Hastings family, so
some are learning to love it. Reece, you know, bringing in the
(06:49):
CIA in this way through a character like Jed almost is a
nod to James Reese's father fromthe books, which we're going to
get in just a few months with the next book.
Also also Victoria Rodriguez, all the people in the books who
were CIA. Jed Haverford is like this
perfect encapsulation of all of that.
But it's outside the books, which shows, right?
(07:11):
You respect the universe, you respect the readers, you respect
the author. And I think his character is
just so terminalist. It's it's, it's unbelievable.
I was going to say like Robert Wisdom as Jed Haverford is just
is is crushing it. I don't know if any of you have
watched one of my favorite actors from the Wire Bunny like
(07:35):
the the police, he's the police chief or he's high up in the
police anyways, but great actor on that show is killing it here.
Like his opening scene buying the Blanton's you you heard him
say 2 Blanton's right. Yeah.
And then, you know, him popping up back at the the swimming pool
(08:00):
and then, you know, seeing him act as this Thomas Stansfield
esque, you know, you know, operator, you know, but you
know, elevated, you know, the mastermind behind this and
bringing this coalition togetherlike.
Who's been there, done that? I don't know who put in his
time. It's and I don't know, he has
(08:22):
like immediate buy in for me. Like I I immediately like
recognized who he was. He obviously establishes his
bona fides quick and you could understand why Ben Edwards like
immediately respects him and is immediately bought in and and
wants to you know, he's obviously very good at being
ACIA case officer and recruiting, you know, you know,
(08:44):
because he quickly, you know, I feel like the having this hard
transition, like having this, you know, weird at the airport
or not at the airport, but. Yeah.
At the hotel, you know, just right after they got, you know,
let go like a conveniently the CIA happened to be there.
(09:05):
It kind of like all fit for me. I don't know, like it.
It just worked. It's so.
He, he's doing the work as the actor to like to, to, to make
that happen. I agree, it also came after a
moment where Taylor Kitsch was forced to fake it or Ben Edwards
was forced to fake it. This was such a disgraceful
(09:26):
thing being kicked out of the teams.
I mean just think about that goodbye at the helicopter right
where he's leaving the base. This is such a world earth
shattering event. You have to get swept away with
the tide. You know, you can't fight it.
And so you just have to put on this false front.
And he's talking about getting motorcycles going out into the
(09:48):
Black Forest in Germany, doing all these crazy things.
And, you know, Rafe is just staring at him like, what?
Who, Who the hell is this? Who are you?
And it's at that moment where Jed preys on your
vulnerabilities, right? He knows.
It's kind of like, what's that saying if you want somebody to
(10:09):
do your bidding, find what they so desperately crave and give
them the tools to master it. Find what it is they want and
make them believe that you can give it to them, you know, or
make them believe that with yourassistance, they'll be able to
do it. And like, then they're, they're
so reliant on you and, and Jed, he does that to Ben.
(10:33):
But at the same time, it's mutual.
Ben needs him as much as he's going to need Ben.
Like he's got the time sensitiveOP, this, this nightclub hit
where now he's going to be. So he needs a guy like Ben.
He needs a shooter. As he says, I need 2 shooters.
It's time sensitive. But Ben's also lost, you know,
this motorcycle and all this other shit he's talking about is
like he's, he's swimming. He does not know how to deal
(10:54):
with the grief of losing the brotherhood, being kicked out of
the teams. And she gives him the tools to
say, you can still have purpose.You can still be on mission.
Mission's going to look a littledifferent.
And the same things that pissed you off and made you snap when
you killed algebra, that made you go outside the chain of
command. I'm going to let you do that.
(11:15):
I want you to do it. I need a guy to improvise.
I need a guy to think outside the box with your skill set.
He's given him everything he wants, and you can't say no.
You know that? Sold.
Right. And I guess we're led to believe
that there there had to have been some time past between the
(11:35):
very end of last episode and where we pick up on this episode
like it. Some.
They obviously had to do some sort of investigation.
They had to interview all of them.
So like, you know, yeah, it's, it's it's quick cut between
here, them being discharged to them, you know, getting on a
plane end up in Germany like so.But obviously Jed had enough
(11:59):
time to go to the site, interview the the witnesses and
like, you know, so let's say there's at least a week or so
has gone by weeks. And he obviously being a trained
CIA operative sees that, oh, I have an opportunity here.
Yeah, they might have burnt our our asset.
(12:20):
But in doing so, we've now gained something better.
And let's let's see how we can benefit from this.
Well, I think that's also part of the problem is what Ben's
sick of is nobody sees the bigger picture, which is mission
accomplished. And instead the CIA guys who are
making the calls on the field, affecting our operators and
(12:41):
putting them in harm's way only see their slice of the pie.
Algebra is our asset. We need him.
He's giving us our Intel. Bridget realizes algebra.
It's one little slice of the pie, 1 little cog and machine.
I can put you on bigger and better things.
I got a team running OPS that wedon't care about.
That one asset, you offed him. No big deal.
Where most of the CIA leadershipis screaming, I want heads for
(13:04):
that. Heads need to roll for that.
And it's like you sometimes got to step away and see what's the
best way to accomplish this mission.
Don't get so hung up on your oneasset who died and want to kick
out, you know, any of the military guys who made that
call. Go ahead and and run some OPS
and and do these bigger picture things, which is part of what
the nightclub scene is to get toget Denali and episode 3.
(13:27):
Holy crap, we pivot again. Now it's about Iranian nukes and
a nuke deal. So, yeah, like we should, yeah.
We quickly escalate to, you know, when we finally get to
like the end of episode 3 where,you know, Fariq obviously posing
as Denali, meets with this geologist who happens to have a
(13:47):
a nuclear research lab, giving him these bearings to be able
to, you know, do these centrifuges much faster, stuff
like that. I don't know.
It's super compelling. And obviously, you know,
they're, they're realizing that,you know, shit is changing in
real time and the stakes are being upped like immediately.
(14:08):
And we've we've caught on to something big and we have to go.
And that, I think, backs up the switch from Episode 1 to Episode
2 and three. We can't be this very myopic.
We're downrange in Mosul trying to save the city.
That's like a very important mission.
But it's only one part of this bigger global War on Terror.
(14:30):
And so now a guy who is selling weapons, selling bombs and
material in Mosul is connected to some nuclear deal going on in
Iran. And there's financiers and
there's this European guide, right?
The guy in the nightclub who is who is passing the money along.
Like there's a bigger picture. So what the guy's doing down
range is like super important, but what Jet is selling is you
(14:53):
can do so much more than that. And I don't know where they go.
I, I don't like when a story just becomes nuke on the loose.
So if it just becomes let's stopIran's nuclear program because
we don't want nukes on the loose, that's one thing.
But I don't know. I it's like a pivot that does
enough to be like, OK, this is going to be something new.
This is going to be a big storyline, but I don't know
exactly what that storyline willbe.
(15:15):
So I'm excited about that. And, and Mossad's involved,
right? Let's up the stakes even more
this Mossad CIA joint operation.That's the other thing I I
don't, obviously I have not watched episodes 4:00 and 5:00,
so I don't know. This is pure speculation on my
part. For some reason I don't trust
Eliza. I feel like she has this.
(15:39):
I don't know, I feel like massage is going to do what
massage, what massage wants to do.
We've seen this time in and timeout in name, any of series, any
of our series we've covered where they've dabbled into the
massage stuff. She's an interesting character
and obviously there's some romantic involvement between her
and Edwards. Her introduction as a character
was freaking awesome. Like as a waitress with her as a
(16:02):
waitress. You know, and they're all
guessing who who the the agent is, who's the Mossad asset and
they're all like, you know, Rafeand him are taking bets on it
and whatever. And then when it's the waitress,
she has that look in her eye. I was like, oh, damn, played
play. So I agree.
I don't I wouldn't say it's not that I don't trust her.
(16:25):
I think it would be in characterfor someone of her skill set to
put country first so. Sure, she's going to put her
first for sure. Right right now though, put
country first is work with the team, right?
Join Operation so CIA Mossad, same page, but I either wouldn't
blame her and wouldn't be surprised if something happens
(16:45):
where everybody's expendable from Rafe to Ben to Jed and her
ontologists have to complete themission what's best for their
country. So I wouldn't put it beyond
them. I don't know if I would say it
means I don't trust them, but I would say their self-interest is
clearly, clearly going to supersede any sort of
(17:05):
collaboration with the CIA And and I I would expect that that
would be to me, sure more expected then they're so loyal.
They do anything to protect. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no, you're right. The self-interest above
everything, particularly with the Israelis.
That nightclub scene, awesome. Like getting to see Rafe and
(17:31):
Edwards like in action as these.The the one hang up I did have
is that it's kind of hard for Rafe to be a spy.
He can't play then, man, I'm. Great.
Huge. I completely agree, but I would
say both of them. Ben with his tats, you know, his
clear military operator beard. He's easier to, yeah, I feel
(17:55):
like he's easier to buy as a, asa spy than not.
I agree. You know, I guess they, you
know, they get gussied up, they go to this nightclub.
But yeah, like the suspense thatwe have and, you know, going on
that the, the, the, the chase atthe end, I don't know, I feel
like the town again. Through the village.
With the, with the cinematography of this, like
(18:16):
they do a really good job of like, I don't know, just
propelling the story forward with the visualizations.
Yeah, and it worked in the nightclub, but it also worked in
that village, You're right. Going through the town, how they
split up, they're geolocating each other so they they know
where support is needed. And then ultimately, here's
(18:36):
what's pretty cool is even though they had to be spies,
they were trying to do this undercover thing that kind of
stood out like a sore thumb. You knew that OP would go South
for many reasons. Sure.
So when it went S, nobody was surprised.
But the other thing I like is Jed knew he would need guys of
their caliber because of things like when when a when a
(18:59):
obviously when the CIA is at itsbest, spies aren't going to be
the machine gun heavy shooting people up doing that.
Like you shouldn't even know they were there if they were
successful. But Jed knew it's not a perfect
world. Shit's going to go South.
And he wanted seal guys and he particularly want two guys who
already had that lingo, that relationship.
He wanted hunters. And so when they're hunting and
(19:21):
it comes to the final scene of this guy's cornered, he's a he's
a cornered animal. Rafe and Ben know exactly what
they're going to do. Doesn't even, he just shushes
him and then says exactly in like a few words how they're
going to cover each other. And I thought that was great to
flush him out. You know how Rafe goes, right?
He's going to pie the corner andactually expose himself.
(19:41):
He takes two shots at the brick wall that way.
He makes the guy jump out and Ben is right there on the left
hidden to take down the dude before he can hit Rafe.
They knew being Seal brothers. Exactly what to do in that
situation. There was no if, ands or buts.
There's no chain of command. They knew exactly how to
proceed. And that is part of, I would
(20:03):
say, Jed's genius, that he knew it would come to that at some
point. Yeah, no, 100%.
Makes me like it even more because so many stories that
kind of shit doesn't happen or it's out of the blue or I'm
supposed to believe these guys have been acting like brothers
and operating forever when we just met them and we don't know
who they are In 2, maybe 3 episodes.
(20:26):
You know everything about these two guys, their relationship,
their working relationship down range, their new relationship,
trying to figure out the spy thing.
It's just great banter. I, I, I really enjoy their
dialogue, their action scenes, their facial expressions that
they're playing off each other just so well.
They built that chemistry and it's incredible.
(20:47):
Yeah, I think that is extended in the third episode too, with,
you know, broadening, obviously bringing in this larger team.
I would say that the episode 3 is largely a Mohammed Farooq
episode, you know where he is. You know what, we get to see
more of that character, but thenyou know, also Ben interacting
(21:09):
with Landry. We also have this other guy ish
who I I thought was pretty cool.And then he just gets off to the
end of the third episode. It was like, damn, that was
quick. And he's like a a decently
famous actor. I mean, he's not like super
famous, but you know, Michael, early Michael, he's been in like
a lot of different things and the fact that he just one
(21:31):
episode guilt boom. Yeah, I, I was wondering one,
why that was done. Obviously, I think to raise the
stakes that this these people were dangerous.
The guys surrounding to now are the scientists that they were
going after whoever wanted to stop that deal from happening.
These people were dangerous. So I think it upped the stakes.
(21:52):
But it also there was a short conversation where MO had to go
do the thing which we should talk about.
MO had to go off the girl who turned out to be we thought of
Hezbollah, a Hezbollah kind of acquaintance of Denali.
Turns out she was the daughter and she was really innocent.
Once MO showed his face, I was like, oh shit, he's got to kill
(22:15):
her. And so it clicked what Ish was
telling him of like Ish was like, is it's hard?
Like will this be your first, you know, not first person
you've killed, but first person,like not in a combat role,
right? First person you've killed as a
civilian due to ACIA mission. And it's just like, if you want
to talk about it, MO was like, no, I'm good.
But MO didn't do it. Like Ish is the old school kill
(22:37):
anybody in cold blood. It's part of the mission.
It's I'm a spy, do The Dirty business.
MO is that, but with virtue. And so he didn't do the thing.
And I like how tall I did. You think he killed her or no
when he took that shot? No, I, I, I knew that he didn't
kill her. The way it was filmed, it's like
(22:57):
if if you don't see somebody dieon screen, they're alive, you
know? You know they're not dead.
I didn't think he shot her because the way they filmed that
with just their eyes. I thought they were going to, I
thought they were going to drag that out.
I thought, I thought they were going to drag that out a little
bit more. Like we immediately get clarity
on whether or not he killed her.Like the next scene, the.
Next scene, yeah. I thought that was going to be
like something that, oh, you know, I thought it was going to
(23:22):
be brought up later on in the season.
Like he couldn't be. I don't know.
I don't know how they're going to.
But then I guess it's just it's more, it was more there to
establish his bona fides as MO is not this ruthless guy, you
know, he has a. Cold blooded killer, Yeah.
Yeah, he has a a past, but you know, he's, you know, there to
(23:43):
be trusted. Then they talk about his his
back story when he's explaining to Raul about Uday and the
Americans. You know, let him get the final
shot. Damn.
And what Uday did to his family,that goes right along with what
I said in episode 1, that I likethat Duran and Duran's family
(24:03):
told you, why are we there? You know, why are our guys
losing their lives in Iraq in the sandbox?
It's because Duran's exist. Duran's families exist and
deserve somebody to stand up forthem.
Well, same thing with MO, right?But MO is saying, yes, I need
the Americans, but I'm going to do it myself.
(24:25):
I'm going to build this from theground up.
I'm going to be that guy who builds my country, defends my
country after what you know, theBaath Party and and Saddam and
cronies did. And I think this you're right.
It's as much as it's this nuclear physics, Iran kind of
bent. It's still Moe's episode.
I really think most deals the show.
I also just think it's a throughline of this entire series, this
(24:47):
in harkening back to Episode 1, you know, going back to this,
like what happened to the Iraqi people.
And like, you know, MO even has that monologue like like we
mentioned in the the car of likeyou should have seen what Mosul
was like. We used to be like, you know,
and like. Yeah.
It just gives more empathy to these characters and more, I
(25:10):
don't know, empathy to the entire story.
I mean, you know, like the, IT gives humanity to it all and
understand like why people are are driven to do certain things.
And you know, why someone would want to stop Iran from getting
nuclear weapons because they might, you know, want to take
Iraq completely off the map, youknow, get rid of Mosul
(25:30):
completely. So the, the meet up, the action
scene at the at the at the very end.
Yeah, No, I, I, it's great. I think, you know, anytime we go
into a subway and we're. Right.
I I think that that scene kind of serves again as this
escalation of Edwards as a a villain.
(25:53):
I'm going to keep calling him villain because of ultimately
what he is, but like, you know, his his transformation, we'll
call it. Sure.
Especially like there's a reasonthat they have him look and
smile right at a little girl girl and then off a dude and
then off a dude. That's intense, dude.
Yeah, it's almost like if you didn't know why he did that,
(26:14):
you'd be like, this guy's bipolar.
This is like some crazy stuff. He's sitting looking at the
girl. But mission, man, like mission,
he had to get that photo. He even snaps a photo of the
dead guy after he kills him because that's their only lead,
right? Who was following the scientist
who didn't want the deal to go through?
Who's involved in all this? Yeah.
(26:34):
Oh, and Moe's, Moe's escape. So even before Ben has to go off
and Rafe just misses the train, Right.
So once that moment hits, you'relike, Ben's on his own.
I was like, we're going to see aSEAL SEAL, you know, like the
SEAL going to SEAL right here. But once he was solo, like dark
wolf, right? Lone wolf on that train when
those doors close, I was like, that is a lone dark wolf who's
(26:57):
not going to stop at nothing. Even sitting across from this
little girl, genuinely making eye contact with her, He's not
stopping. That guy's right over there.
And what's got to be done? It's got to be done.
He's a hardliner. He he's the the true believer
right now. So yeah, I I think, I think
that's awesome. But before we get there, equally
as enthralling was MO's escape. How how they got the whole thing
(27:21):
planned down to AT and they haveto go with their third option.
You know, first options cut off,second options cut off.
They're all again, Geo locating each other, knowing where the
turns are. And Tal is on Overwatch.
She's been great. She she's cleaned up some dead
bodies. She's, you know, gotten the van
out of there. She's doing all the tech stuff.
She's a forger, she's getting them documents.
Tal's also the Swiss Army knife,who I really, really like.
(27:44):
Again, she's Mossad though, so how far can that trust go?
We're not sure. But right now I really like her.
I like your conversation with MO.
And ultimately when MO gets out of there, he even has to go
through that like hardware shop and he grabs A sledgehammer
knowing the guy's right there. He's cool, calm, collected.
He's cool as a cucumber as he's mowing dudes down and and
(28:07):
running this SDR to get out of there.
And who is it? Landry comes by with the van.
So I love this team. I love the team up third episode
and you've got me this bought into not only the main
characters, but the secondary team supporting the main
characters. Never thought I would be this
bought in and and I am. Yeah, no, I'm honestly
(28:29):
surprised. I'm honestly really shocked.
Pleasantly surprised. Yeah, especially with, you know,
kind of our reservations and disappointment we were with the
the first seasons of eternal loss, like and you know, maybe
that's just because there's no book to compare this to.
So we what, what we have is whatwe have and we're we're
(28:52):
appreciating it. But like you said, like we've
said before in the last episode and we'll say it again this
episode, I do think they're being true to the universe and
they're being cognizant, respectful and everything fits.
So I'm I'm hooked these two episodes to me ranking a. 100% a
(29:15):
I still. Give AB it's it's an A.
You know, I'm a critic, dude. You know, whether it's books or
TV or movies we've covered in the past, I can find the little
quirks. I can tear it apart.
The little things that go wrong spiral into big things.
They bother me. I can't yell with a story
because there's minor things that are tripping me up.
(29:36):
The buy in factor, right? If, if I can't buy in, I'm out.
I might not even finish that thing.
It's so completely the opposite that it's refreshing because I'm
usually the first and biggest critic of TV shows and movies.
My my thing is don't waste my time if if, if the product is
not quality, I don't want you wasting my time.
So I can turn these things off, I can pull them apart.
(29:57):
And for me to give two straight A's through three episodes, I'm
a harsh critic. So I, I got to say, I think I
think the show is doing phenomenally well.
I it rightfully is deserving allthe praise I've seen it
advertised billboards their their marketing campaign seems
to really be hitting a lot of stuff on social media, a lot of
commentary on YouTube. The terminalist first season did
(30:19):
not have a lot of commentary like third party accounts
wanting to review it, something like a screen rant or these
other groups. Well, now they're doing
interviews with the actors. The marketing wing of this thing
I think is way, way, way higher than it was with the last
season. I think everybody from top down,
Chris Pratt's production team, Amazon, a Jack Carr and his
(30:40):
entourage and Enterprise, they figured it out.
They really figured out the secret sauce.
I did. It has me optimistic about true
believer. True believer, right?
Agreed. Agreed.
One thing though, you said, which really struck me, the best
(31:01):
parts of the Terminalist season 1 were kind of the parts not
from the book. Every time they tried to go to
the book, it got clunky, didn't leave up live up to
expectations. The writers when given the
ability to write in universe butnot in book, did the best script
to the best dialogue, the best screen writing of that season.
(31:22):
And now we're seeing that completely, they're in universe,
respect to the universe, but noton page, which allows them to be
screenwriters, right? Like create dialogue, create
characters, create stories without being tied down to
someone else's vision, Jack Carr's vision.
So I just really like how all that is gelling. 100 percent,
(31:42):
100%. What's next all?
Right, we got dude, I gotta go. I want I'm so today we're
recording episode 5 just dropped.
So like I am, I want to go watchepisode 4 and 5:00 so we can, we
can talk about it like immediately.
Do you like that reveal? Do you like how they didn't dump
them all at once? I kind of do.
(32:05):
Oh yeah, I meant to ask you about that.
Like so they they dropped the first three of at once and now
they're doing it weekly. And this is like a a thing now
that people have done, it's likewe're going to drop a couple
because everyone knows that if you just drop one, the the pilot
watches anymore. No one comes back to the second
(32:25):
Yeah. Unless you have like an amazing
pilot has to be great is going to hit.
Right. No one ever does that.
It's it's at least 2 episodes, 3episodes and then I.
Also didn't like the building drops though of all of it at
once like the COVID era. I I'm glad we moved on from that
to be honest. Well, because terminalist was
(32:45):
all at once, right? Or was it similar?
No, I think they did episodes one and two actually.
You know what? Episodes one and two were both
filmed and written as one giant episode.
So they released one and two at the same time, then weekly.
No, but it it no, it was really all on July 1st.
(33:06):
I remember. That's why it was like so
daunting to me because we had tolike the entire season was, was
dropped. We wanted to cover like every,
every episode. Yeah, you're right.
We obviously didn't have time tolike binge it all and then
record like back-to-back to back.
I like it. It gives us a you're right.
I I, I, I want to get back. I I, I wish we would get back to
(33:29):
these like. The water cooler.
I don't know water cooler moments Like there's no more
like cultural zeitgeist really anymore.
Like unless like a TikTok or or meme hits off, you know, like
Tua, like there's. Buy your meme coins.
(33:51):
There's nothing you, you know, I, I remember back, back to like
Lost. I I mentioned Game of Thrones
before, but Lost, you know, helleven 24 back in the day.
Like 24. I would go West Wing, you know,
real, real back in the day. Yeah, it was the Talk of the
Town or even other these other dramas.
(34:11):
I don't watch them, but the Talkof the Town, that was a drama.
You knew it was the show everybody needed to see.
Mad Men, Breaking Bad, You know,Homeland.
I don't expect anything in the Terminalist to be that, to be
the zeitgeist, the water cooler moment.
I think like sure, I said Rosie said my wife last episode.
(34:33):
It is for a particular demographic, so I don't expect
it to be that wide. But within that demographic,
create a community where those conversations can be had.
Like our book club group chat. If everybody just watched the
whole season and wanted to talk about the end, and then it took
months and months and months forother people to roll it out, we
never really get to have a conversation about it.
(34:53):
What? That's why like a book club,
when you have a dedicated book and people read it, that's a lot
of fun. Sure.
As opposed to everyone's going to read it months apart.
Some people won't remember it, some people have never read it.
I don't expect the Terminalist to be that for the wider
culture, but within this subculture of folks who love
thrillers, military stuff, Jack Cars fanbase, you know, his
(35:14):
faithful to get something like this to talk about each week or
text somebody. What episode you up to?
I watched 30. I'm going to watch 3 tonight and
then, you know, within those small circles to recreate that
is a blast. COVID blew that out of the water
when every single show was just dropped all the time.
Everybody had was at home so many hours they could watch
whatever they wanted in any order they wanted, whenever they
(35:35):
wanted and binge it for as long as they wanted.
Kind of. I grew.
I got tired of that. Yeah, me too.
Like it's, you know, people weredoing watching all of Friends
again. And it's like, yeah, I'd watch
Friends, but I can't remember, you know, back when I was, I
don't know, in fifth grade, like, I probably shouldn't have
(35:58):
been watching the show Friends in fifth grade.
But we like, me and my mom wouldwatch Friends like every
Thursday. I remember like going back and
there was other friends at school that would watch it.
Like having those moments just mean more.
I don't know. I just, it, it, it's like the
Monday Night Football, you know,like you watch your team play,
you go to work and you can talk about it like, right.
(36:20):
It's very hard to do that nowadays because oh, I'm on
season 2 of episode, you know, I'm on episode 8 of season 2.
Oh, I'm on episode 10 of season 12.
Like what? Like, and we're going to have a
one hour conversation about maybe like 7 seasons.
Like get the fuck out of here. Yeah, similar to what kind of
(36:44):
MCU stuff was my buddies at workwas three of us.
We eat lunch all the time. Anytime an an MCU like Phase One
movie came out, it was everything we wanted to talk
about for a week straight. We we'd want to have lunch
together just to talk about thatmovie.
Now there's 37 of them. They're on like Phase 16.
We didn't even talk about them anymore.
At one they became crap. But it's just like they don't
(37:05):
have that the gravity, that gravitas of you see it, you want
to go talk about it. You're anticipating for months
or a year the next one. It's all just like all these
movies just keep coming. I'll I'll watch a few of them.
Some of them are crap, some of them are good.
It's like, no, I want that really well created thing that
you have to wait for and it builds up and everybody watches
(37:25):
it. Then you talk about it.
Yeah, I think like ultimately, you know, streaming has kind of
done that to a lot of things that I think especially with
Disney, like when they I was avid, like I remember, I
remember the day it was my birthday, 2019, going to see end
game in the theatre and like being so excited and that like
(37:49):
that being the pinnacle. And then like, you know, again,
COVID, they're dropping movies day and date the same time
they're in the theatre. You could just watch them
online. Yeah.
It's like, that's weird. I'm glad, I guess, you know,
anyways, we're ranting, we're going off topic, but I think
like, it's glad to see that we're taking a step back from
(38:11):
that and that there's a happy medium we can have, you know,
like, all right, a little bit ofa binge because one, we have to
have at least three episodes nowbecause, or two episodes now
because we're, we're used to that.
But then, you know, I'm, I'm OK waiting a week.
(38:31):
I I want to like, I get excited about when I when an episode
drops, so. Completely, dude.
You remember the feeling sittingin a movie theater and the Star
Wars theme drops and the scrolling text comes up.
That was an unreal feeling. And, and I love the Star Wars
expanded universe stuff and the and and all the other cartoons,
(38:53):
but it's just like, I don't knowif you recreate the feeling of
seeing a Star Wars just opening scene, opening credits drop, cue
the music. It's it's special.
I used. To get like that, seeing the
Marvel, the Marvel logo come up.Marvel had that for a little
while, yeah. The early stuff, the Phase 1
(39:13):
stuff. You get that tingling, you get
that tingly feeling and and thenit's just, it's saturation,
right? Exactly, exactly.
It's over saturated. They started having, they had
you know, talk about they had 6 movies from in like 6 years.
They went from that to having 6 movies in one year.
(39:34):
Yeah. Plus like 5 TV shows.
TV shows you had to keep up with?
Yeah. And and yeah, having everything
interconnected just like, you know, even.
You know what lost me that we'reon a rant now.
What lost me was when the post credit scenes used to be so like
(39:56):
so powerful. The, the, everyone was on the
edge of their seats for the postcredit scenes.
And then it became what? Who's that?
What happened? What?
That person's in which show? I didn't watch that one.
So it's like even these post credit scenes, which they were
like famous for, which was theirbig nail biters, don't leave,
don't leave. You'll be telling other people
in the theater. And now I'm like who who I
(40:18):
don't. Know the ones that create
character right? Like.
Yeah, yeah. But then it got away from them.
The the bit. The bit went too long, you know?
Yeah. Because they they were
impactful, but they ultimately didn't matter.
Yeah, anyways, we're we're goingdown a a a long rant, but
anyways, I think this show againdid bring it back to dark wolf.
(40:44):
You know it doesn't rely on terminal lists.
Season 1 it. No.
It could exist by itself. It's if you watch season 1,
great, if you read the books, great.
If not, it's a pretty good series by itself.
So. I think if you watch this series
just thinking episodes two and three with this pivot to CIA and
(41:05):
these guys being the dark, you know, Ben Edwards being the dark
wolf and these missions are going on.
And then you think of Red Sky morning.
It's it's, it's like they're really in the same universe.
They parallel each other. There's there's so much about
them, you know, Reese being CIA and Dick Rodriguez.
So I just feel like they're respecting the craft, respecting
(41:29):
the tradition and building something even better than what
we already had. And it fits so seamlessly into
the universe. So hats off to the team and
makes you want to read the books.
The series number one thing we have to measure it against is
does it bring new viewers to thebooks?
And so far what I'm seeing, I don't know how it doesn't.
(41:50):
Yeah, no, 100%. All right, so next time we're on
the pod, we will be covering episodes four and five.
Can't wait. Before we get to that episode,
we got to thank our patrons, including our deputy director,
Sherry F, Brad E, our special agents, Adam, Mike, Ben, Daryl,
George, Matt, Dawn and Chris. Please go subscribe to all three
(42:15):
seasons of No Limits. You can find us@thrillerpod.com
or on Twitter and Instagram at Thriller Podcast.
And as always, just let MO be MO.
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