August 19, 2020 • 32 mins
Welcome to another episode of No Need to Ask podcast. My name is Amani Duncan and I will be your host on this journey.
Today’s guest holds a great significance in my life. Tina Davis was the person who gave me my first job in the music industry; Tina Davis was my Day one. I owe so much to Tina as she was a shining example of a powerful woman in the male-dominated music industry. In my early days at Def Jam, she was the Head of A&R (Artist & Repertoire) and a person I wanted to be just like.
On Part 1 of the episode you will hear her the story of her professional journey that spanned Def Jam, manager for one of today’s global superstars to Head of A&R for Empire Records.
Please make sure you have a pen and paper ready because there will be a lot of information shared and tips on how to be resilient and successful.
The second part of the conversation will go live later in the week, so make sure to subscribe! Oh and please feel free to leave a review.
Until we meet again, be safe and be well.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So today's guest.
She means a lot to me.
And I know you guys have heardher name on previous episodes of
no need to ask podcasts.
You've heard me talk about herconstantly because she really
had a huge impact and still doeson my life as most of you know,
(00:23):
I wrote a book and the book ispart autobiographical, and also,
you know, um, gives you helpfulbusiness tips, life tips.
And during the editing process,the editor pointed something out
to me and she said she wasconfused.
(00:45):
She said, in one part of thebook, you talk about Kevin
Liles, the founder CEO of 300entertainment a lot, and your
days working with him at Defjam.
And then she goes on to say, butyou also talk about this woman
named Tina Davis and you referto Kevin as you're day one, but
(01:09):
yet you started your career withTina.
It was one of those moments thatI really had to take pause and
sit with what she said for aminute.
You know, it's, it's interestinghow we women in the business
were so eager to try to make animpression, especially in an
(01:33):
industry that's so maledominated that you
subconsciously find yourself notgiving credit where credit is
due.
And so I wanted to take thistime to publicly apologize to my
friend, Tina Davis, for notrecognizing and giving her the
(01:53):
acknowledgement that she trulydeserves.
Tina Davis is my day one, nooffense to Kevin Liles.
But Tina Davis is my day one.
She took a chance on thiscollege kid.
She taught me how to be strongand how to work in an
environment that is so maledominated and not have my voice
(02:17):
muted.
So today's guests means a lot tome and Tina, I am sorry for not
acknowledging you as my day one.
And I don't even know thereasons why and the reasons why
don't, they don't even matter.
It was just wrong.
And it was unjust to you.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
[inaudible]
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Welcome to another episode of no need to ask
podcast.
My name is Amani Duncan, and Iwill be your host on this
journey.
I am so honored and grateful tohave the Tina Davis as my guest
on today's show.
Welcome Tina.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Uh, wow.
Thank you.
That just threw me for a loop,but you know what, I, I thank
you for even saying that thatmeans more to me than you could
ever imagine.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I love that.
Thank you for being so gracious.
So Tina Davis, you guys Googleher like she is responsible for
so much.
We're going to actually pullback the layers of the onion as
much as we can.
And this will actually be partone of our conversation because
it's simply impossible to puteverything that you need to know
(03:50):
about Tina Davis within oneepisode.
So please take a moment, grab apen and a pad because there will
be a lot of notes that you needto take during this particular
episode.
So Tina, where do we even begin?
I mean, I don't even know whereto begin, so I want to go back
(04:13):
to, you know, I always want togo back to people's like the
beginning of people's journeys,the reason why someone wanted to
be a doctor or lawyer or in themusic industry.
And I really want the people tohear this story because when you
started out, especially on thecreator side, can I count on one
(04:34):
hand the women that wereactually creating the music
we're actually running a and Rdepartments within a major
record label.
So take us back to the reasonwhy you were even interested in
delving into an industry thatwas so deficient with women and
(04:57):
especially women of color.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah.
You know, it's, it's crazybecause you know, when you're in
it, you don't think about that.
You don't think about, Hey, youknow what?
Um, there aren't a lot of womenin ANR.
I just had a dream.
I just had a goal to work withartists, learn artists, learn
the business.
I want it to be creative.
Um, I mean, I, I look back towhen I was in diapers with my
(05:21):
father playing the tar and mymother's singing and my brothers
singing.
And in a third grade, I startedgiving concerts at recess from
my, my, you know, colleagues,you know, doing all the records
that my mother and father playedon the radio and then, you know,
playing classical piano for 11years.
(05:42):
And it just, to me, it's, it'sthe path that was given to me.
Um, I look back at around 27 andsay, okay, what is this, what am
I going to do?
What, what is, what is God'spath for me?
Cause that's really, what'simportant for me.
What is God's path for me?
What am I supposed to do?
And at that time I was atgrandma's state and I was
(06:04):
studying, um, masscommunications.
I want to be Oprah.
I wanted to be a reporter, butat the time I had a love for
music and a friend of mineLaRonda Sutton was working in
music and her husband was alsoworking.
Darrell Sutton was working inmusic.
He was the vice president of anor for Virgin.
(06:24):
And she was, um, in a publishingcompany, I think EMI at the
time.
And at Grambling, you know, wehad Erica Badu, we had different
people there and it was just anatural love for it.
And after awhile I decided, youknow what, I want to go get in
the music business.
So it was, but before that, um,hip hop was introduced to me
(06:49):
when I was about 13, reallyyoung and I wanted to work for
Russell Simmons.
That's all I wanted to do waswork for Russell Simmons.
Wow.
And I wanted to work for Def jambecause I saw that Russell had
Def jam.
He was working with the artistswho was finding talent.
And that was when I realizedwhat position actually want to
find the talent and nurture thetalent to put them out.
(07:12):
So I said, that's what I want todo.
I want to immediately signRichie rich from, from, um,
Oakland, because he's, he's thebest rapper in the Bay area to
me.
So fast forward.
And, um, the Rhonda asked me tocome work for her at Christmas
music publishing as herassistant.
And at that time she literallytold me, listen, we're best
(07:34):
friends.
We go back.
So after about a year, we'regoing to be at each other's
throats.
So this one year, and this timeI'm going to let you go.
Just so spread your wings.
Wow.
And literally a year later shewas like, you got go.
(07:55):
And I was, I was totallystunned, but lo and behold,
she's, you know, helping me allalong.
And, um, it just turned out, youknow, Paul Stewart had PMP and
Def jam and, and he said, Hey,yeah, you know, I hear you're
going, you're leaving Chrysalis.
Are you open to come work forDef jam?
(08:16):
So I said, um, I, I want to knowmore about it, but I'm excited
to come work at an R for Defjam.
Now it was just for an, ouradmin and I was inside an ANR.
And I said anything to get mecloser to the real record
business.
Cause to me, publishing was inthe business, right.
Dealing with the artistsdirectly.
Right.
(08:37):
So, and I also told him, I said,and if I do come, I need Def jam
to be on my check.
That's what I need that for me.
He said, well, if I do that,then I need to put you on the
phone with Leo Cohen, everyone.
Yes.
Cohen.
And I said, okay, let's go.
That's right.
So, and again, I'm not thinking,Oh, I'm one of the only black
(09:01):
women that wants to do.
And are now there were otherwomen, Vivian Chu and others
that I was looking up to thatwere mentors that didn't even
know me.
Cause I was like assistant atthe time that I was looking up
to, you know, they're all a lotof Cassandra meals, wrong women
in the music business andrunning departments.
(09:23):
And our, there weren't as manywomen hip hop, there were little
or none.
There was Judy Dickson beforeme.
Um, there weren't that many.
Right.
But I didn't care that wasn'tabout it.
Wasn't about that.
It was what I wanted to do.
So he put me on the phone withyour, and it was my interview.
And Leo said, okay.
(09:45):
So tell me why you want to workfor Def jam.
I gave him my spiel about hiphop and Russell Simmons and Def
jam.
And he said, okay.
He says, you know, my company'sjanky.
Right.
I can't believe he said that.
And I said, it's janky.
I said, okay, well cool.
He said, I said, if it's janky,thank you for telling me that,
(10:06):
because I know when you do somejanky shit is to be expected.
And he laughed.
And he said, you're hired.
And I went from there andstarted crying too.
Because at that time it was veryhard.
There was someone before me whowasn't necessarily closing the
deals and trying to work outsituations with studios around
(10:28):
the area part because of theteams I had to clean that up.
And then, um, somehow PMP splitfrom Def jam and the are asking
me to run Def jam on the Westcoast.
And he wanted me to look for,you know, get all of our
equipment and move this.
We found an office.
And in that process I found thissong and that song was, this is
(10:53):
how we do it.
Montell Jordan to this day,those him, his wife, his family,
they are beautiful people.
They are, they are justbeautiful people.
Um, but that was the beginningof my and our career.
And what a hit.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
I mean, you came out of the gate like gang busters.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, man.
It was, it was a blessingbecause at that time we didn't
have a lot of people and youknow, you could do a little bit
of marketing, a little bit ofthis, a little bit of that.
We had more than one job.
We just did whatever was needed.
Exactly.
So at that point I was like,okay, we're moving to a new
office.
And I think that was close toaround the time when you started
(11:38):
calling Charlie.
Yeah.
I have somebody in here.
Somebody has to answer the phoneand do it.
It makes me rest in peace.
So when you kicked in and I tellthis story
Speaker 1 (11:57):
All the time, like I had just graduated from college
and had a complete meltdown anddecided one morning I was going
to work in the music business.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
I looked in the yellow pages, found Def jam West
called and you answered thephone.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
And I went into my little like recent college.
You were just like show uptomorrow.
I was like, uh, okay.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
I think,
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Okay.
And the rest is history, man.
I remember sitting in youroffice or one of the offices and
trying to transcribe lyrics.
I was like, what is Reddit?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
I can't
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Like rewind, rewind, rewind.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Like it was just
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Fall in and figure it out.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
And you would give me these contracts
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Or build out a BMI contract.
You know what I mean?
And I'm like splits and whatthe, but you were just like,
figure it out.
And you gave me the courage tojust figure it out.
And you know what I mean?
And you were just soinstrumental.
And I was like, this woman isincredible
Speaker 3 (13:08):
To see you interact with
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Chris Lighty and Lee, your and Kevin, like, I was
like, wow, this woman is I'mgoing to be her.
I'm going to be like her.
You know, I was like, she'sshowing me how to represent.
And you were so you're sorespected and you did it on your
terms.
And gosh, Montel was just thebeginning.
(13:34):
I mean, you create it, tell thepeople you created death bowl.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yeah.
Def so yeah.
How did that,
Speaker 1 (13:40):
I mean, that was such a great time.
I mean, how did that come aboutwhat made you say, okay, w we're
masters, you know, in hip hop,we are literally literally
running the game.
Okay.
Why not?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
How did that come about?
It's so crazy because, um, wehad case was already signed at
the time and, and this is how wedo it was built, obviously did
great.
And we were moving forward withother projects with him.
Um, and we started getting otherartists, we had milk and stuff.
And what I realized is that foryears when we sent and at that
(14:13):
time, radio was key.
You'd couldn't move withouthaving radio.
Absolutely nothing would movewithout it.
So I had, I thought about it andI said, you know what?
Every time we send a record toradio with our logo, because our
logo was on every single record.
It didn't matter if it wasmethod, man, red man LL cool.
J we had our bright that'sright.
(14:36):
Brian was bigger than theartists and the employees took
the logo.
And I realized that being inmind, you prior to me, even,
even getting into music when Iwas in college to pay for my
books and some of my otherthings, my fun, um, I was on
air.
I was an on air personality.
(14:57):
I was literally doing myhomework and programming,
whatever they were listening toin the city next to Grambling,
which was rust in Louisiana.
I was at my, my on airpersonality name was prophet T.
So, but I, I realized then evenwhen I was programming, then you
couldn't put a lot of reps inand out.
(15:20):
They weren't allowing rep totake over that hour.
So that being said, I said, youknow, we need to maybe put Def
soul on the things that are Rand B, so that when it is sent
to radio, they know todifferentiate between our rep
stuff and our R and B stuff,because they won't program it.
If they think it's just anotherRMB, a rap record.
(15:42):
Wow.
Thought it was brilliant.
Paid me for the idea.
And we trademarked it andstamped depths on everything
that was R and B.
Wow.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
So smart.
And that's the one thing that Ihave to cause I haven't found it
really.
I mean, those years at Def jamwere so special and the way we,
you know, and I say, we, becausewe were all so invested in
running the company, you know,and Leo just gave us the license
(16:17):
to own a piece of the company.
You know what I mean?
And it really taught us how, atleast it taught me how to
stretch, how to know somethingabout each department.
So that, I mean, we could haveall left and ran our own record
labels easily, easily.
(16:38):
You know what I mean?
Because we, there was no closeddoors.
Like if you want it to sit inKevin's office and here, you
know, just listen to him, doradio calls, which I did.
And that taught me how to closebecause Kevin was a closer, we
all know Kevin Liles closed allday every day, but to hear him
(17:01):
close, I was like, I'm justgetting like a master's class.
You know what I mean?
To watch you identify, you know,this is going to be a hit.
Like this is the one noteverybody can do that.
I know everybody thinks theycan, they can pick a hit.
They can't, you know what Imean?
I learned so much from justobserving you and being able to
(17:25):
listen in on these top levelconversations.
It, it really well rounded us.
And I think the one takeaway themost prominent takeaway, and I
think everyone says it, but theywere hard on us.
You know, there, there was noroom for excuses and that was
tough.
You know, we were young.
We were, you know, a lot oftimes this was like our first
(17:47):
year
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Real job, you know?
Like, yeah,
Speaker 1 (17:50):
It's hard, but it taught us.
There's always a soul.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Yes.
Don't I don't want to, I don'twant to hear about it.
Exactly.
Lastly, you are would say thatall the time, don't leave a
stone unturned.
Exactly.
You come to me, every stonebetter be turned off.
Cause he's going to pick itapart.
Has he's going to find a stop.
He's going to find it.
He's going to find it.
You're like boom.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
And him and Kevin with the, make it happen.
I don't care.
Make it happen between both ofthem.
You had no refuge.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Oh, I'm going to try to figure this out.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Oh my God, I'm just going to use it.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Every resource, everyone I know.
And we're going to make ithappen.
And the thing is we always did.
Yeah, we did.
Every single time made ithappen.
When I started at Def jam.
Kevin was the head ofpromotions.
Yes.
The president at that time, youknow, we were like sisters and
(18:52):
brothers desks.
We can argue and turn around andstill hug each other on the way
out, go to dinner, have a drink,have a drink.
It was never personal.
We accepted each other's passionand women.
A lot of times in corporatesettings or in those types of
settings, they feel like, Oh,you guys are just emotional.
(19:14):
No, they knew that we were thepassion.
And at that time, by the timeyou got there, especially there
were women all over that lot ofwomen running different, um,
projects, we were strong.
We were balanced.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yes.
And that, that really, you know,when you're a young kid, a young
woman coming up, I mean that tosee, you know, that there's a
tribe.
I mean, that's just like, I can,you know, we can lean on each
other and we can make anything.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
It was great.
It was so great.
How long were you with Def jam?
10 years.
Wow.
10 years.
Yeah.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
And you know, we can't forget under that imprint
death, soul.
I mean music, soul child.
I mean, there was just,
Speaker 3 (20:05):
I mean, you were just killing it.
I mean, I's, Lee's Patty.
I mean, he was just like, Oh mygosh, you were killing it.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
So you're over there at the height of the height.
Why like what prompted you tojourney?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
What the regime changed, Russell Lee or Kevin
Julie.
Everybody left.
Yes.
And, um, I was one of the fewpeople who were still there and
at an LA re came in and Iactually knew LA Reed prior to
working at Def jam really youngin the Chrysalis days because
(20:44):
now pass was signed toChrysalis.
Right.
So I got a chance to meet himand Babyface and Tracey Edmonds
and the family.
So I kind of introduced them toLee or, and Russell.
Wow.
I had already known them.
So when LA came in, you know, Iwas like, okay, this is all he
let me just go and do even moreor do even better than I did
(21:07):
before I was there for about sixmonths after everybody left six
months, I signed Neil.
I tried to invite a few otherpeople, but I learned so much
from LA in just that six months.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Wait a minute, we have to pause because I need
people.
These are the gyms.
Tina Davis signed Neo.
Y'all like, she says it like,it's just, you know, like
nothing, but this is a woman inthe business, a black woman in
the business and signing actsthat are worldwide at this
(21:42):
point.
So I'm sorry.
I just needed to take thatmoment and acknowledge these
gyms.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Carry on.
Yeah, man.
So I, you know, I signed themand um, LA of course was like,
you know what?
I love Neo.
He's amazing.
I need somebody younger.
I really need someone youngerthat can dance that, give me
another usher or something.
And I had Chris Brown, but Iwanted to Def jam.
(22:09):
Cause I wasn't sure if he wasgonna let me go.
Cause usually when regimeschange, they let you go.
He's going to eventually let mego.
You know?
And so I said, well, you knowwhat?
It doesn't hurt.
Let me just play it form.
So just in case, so I played itfor him.
He was like, who is this guy?
(22:29):
Whoa, to meet this kid.
And by this time I already goneto Virginia.
I've asked him to come inbecause LA used to have, you
know, people coming to officehave to perform so you can
actually see how they wouldperform and see whether they had
the it factor.
Right.
So I had them come in and Isaid, okay, I need you to
(22:53):
perform for all my assistants inmy department.
So he performed and he wascracking and things like that.
It wasn't as clear as you wouldwant it to be.
But he was a 13 year old kid,you know?
So I turned around and said,listen, I want you to go and
perform for my counterpart,Karen Kwok.
(23:14):
And then I want you to go to LA,but I want you to first fix
these little things that I needyou to work on, which is here,
I'm giving, I'll give you sometea, so you're not cracking.
But what I'd like for you to dois I'm going to put more people
in the room and I'm going tobring them in, in the room as
well.
And he said, okay.
And I said, I want you to onlysing to the women, do not sing
(23:38):
to the men.
Okay.
Acknowledge them when they comein and say hello, but when you
start singing, sing to thewomen, respectfully grabbed
their hand.
When you say, Hey there, Heygirl, you know, act this out for
me.
I said, and the main woman willprobably be sitting at her desk.
When you finish on your lastnote, I want you to go to her
(23:59):
and get on your knee and singfor.
And he said, okay, I love it.
How old was he at this time?
He was 13.
Oh my goodness.
13.
So I brought him in, he sang forher and she was like, Oh my God.
I was like, LA is next.
I like, for real, she was like,Oh my God, he's a star.
So she's hidden LA I had alreadyhit LA.
(24:21):
So by the time we finished, thatwas like, okay.
LA is like, bring them up.
We put, we did it.
I told them again.
Now we're going to have morepeople again.
I want you to only talk to thewomen.
Don't even look at LA your wholeperformance.
I'm out of respect, but I needyou to make sure you talk to the
women, touch their face
Speaker 5 (24:42):
Respectfully.
Right, right.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
And he said, okay.
I said, and again, fine,whatever woman you choose, but I
want you on your last note, onyour knee singing.
The last note, he said, Oh, hemurdered it.
Of course he did killed it.
And of course you did LA stoodup and was like, what?
So long story short in that timewe started negotiating his deal
(25:09):
on Thursday.
LA LA my mind you let me taketwo steps back.
LA gave me a contract for threeyears.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
Okay.
At this point.
Right?
Okay.
Lock you in.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Yeah.
It might be, keep trying to keepme okay.
Yeah, because my contract wasup.
So yeah.
And one day Montell Jordan'swife came to my office and I was
holding the contract.
Cause I was like, I don't know.
Am I gonna, should I look atsomebody else?
Should I talk to someone else?
My attorney was reaching out toother people, other labels,
acid, man.
I don't know if I want to goback to another label though,
(25:43):
because I did leave Def jam forseven months and worked at
Columbia.
And I didn't like it.
I said, I don't know.
And she came in the office.
She said, you know what, babe?
I'm in LA, in New York.
And God told me to come in hereand tell you if LA has you to
sign another contract, sign itbecause he's probably going to
fire you right after it.
This is just her saying this tome.
(26:04):
He's probably going to fire youright after that.
But God is telling me to tellyou this, to sign it.
So you have security for thenext three or four years.
And I said, I said, Oh, you are.
Like, I told you, all I need isfor you.
God is I follow what he bringsto me.
It's my, his path.
Right?
It's my path.
So I signed a contract.
(26:25):
No problem.
So going back to where Chris wasnegotiating his contract, his
attorney wasn't negotiating thecontract on Thursday.
We worked out the last deal termon Monday, Chris was coming to
New York to take the signingphoto.
You know, back then we used tohave signing
Speaker 5 (26:44):
Photos in the conference room.
Everyone's hovering around
Speaker 3 (26:53):
That Monday.
He was supposed to come well,Friday morning, I get to the
office and human resources askedme to come upstairs.
We've negotiated the last termon Thursday, Friday, I get up.
I drop everything on my desk andgo upstairs.
By the time I'm done, they'velet me go.
They've given me my severancepackage.
Nice.
(27:13):
And I said, okay.
They, they didn't escort me out.
They just asked me to leavetoday.
So I went down to my desk tograb my purse and grabbed my
phone.
And the phone was ringing when Igot into my office and it was
Chris.
And he said, ms.
Tina, don't go to work.
They're going to fire you today.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Wait, how did he know that?
Speaker 3 (27:34):
I said, how do you know that?
He said, cause they called meand said that they want me to
still sign.
Even though they're going to letgo of Tina Davis.
And I said, what I say, wow.
I said, sweetie, honestly, it'sokay.
I, wow.
Let me go.
And if there is anything, Idon't care.
If I'm at a label or not, youare the next Michael Jackson and
(27:58):
you are special.
And if there's anything I can doto help you call me, I'm here.
So that Saturday, his mother and, and Chris and his mother
called me and said, would youmind being our manager?
What I said, absolutely.
I would love to be your manager.
Now, mind you, I didn't want tobe anybody's manager.
(28:19):
Right?
We'll never want it to be amanager.
Right?
You don't do, you know, look atChris Brown and know what it is
and ignore that.
Exactly.
So I said, okay, well I can'twork in another company because
otherwise my severance packagesvoid it.
This is what God's plan is forme.
Oh my God, Tina.
So I ended up, I said, well, doyou want to try a couple other
(28:43):
labels since I'm no longer atDef jam?
And I'm your manager.
Cause I can reach out to otherlabels.
And since they don't even knowwho you are, they aware that
we're getting ready to sign thenext Michael Jackson.
So when I do that, I can up yourdeal.
Exactly.
And he said, okay.
I said, so by Wednesday I hadfive other offers on the table.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
It's been beside himself.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
He was beside himself.
But he was more beside himselfwhen Chris said, I want to meet
with Def jam, but I want to, Iwant LA and Karen Kwok and
everybody in the room, but Iwant you on the other side of
the table with us.
And I want to see what they'reand feel their energy and see
how they act in that space.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
And I was like, okay,
Speaker 3 (29:26):
If you go at Def jam, it'll be good business.
I'm not going to, I don't haveany hurt feelings by this.
This has been right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And this happens all the timewhen you have a regime change.
So just know that.
And he said, okay, so we got inthere and we sat with him on the
other and LA and Karen, Oh, welove Tina.
We love Tina.
And Chris said, well, why'd youlet her go?
(29:46):
Well, because you know, we havea new regime and we have
multiple people in that sameposition we left elec.
Chris said, no, I don't believethem.
But LA put usher on the phonewith him.
So they were all trying to docertain things to get him.
The thing is, is before Leo andKevin even saw Chris, they sent
(30:10):
an offer to me that doubled withDef jam had on the table.
Wow.
If you want me telling, listen,this kid is it.
So I had already had that.
Um, but we went and met withseveral other people, including
jive and Kurt.
And you know, Chris said, well,slate and Johnson told me that
(30:31):
jive is horrible with theirblack artists.
And I need to not work for Johnor sign a jive.
I said, you should go into jiveform.
Like it's the best performancethat you're going to give
regardless because the chatterand the business helps to build
this momentum.
And he said, exactly.
I said, just go have fun.
(30:51):
I said, okay.
He killed it.
Of course, before we got, whenwe got downstairs, I said, we
shouldn't have let you leave thebuilding.
Please don't leave the building.
I said, I'm already on my way tohis attorney's office.
He's hungry.
I'm getting something to eat.
And then over to the attorney,I'm trying to make a deal within
the next two or three days.
So by the time he went to lunchand got back, the deal was even
(31:14):
doubled.
So now we have like two, 3million on the table versus
like, God.
So we chose jive because theyhad experience with, um, younger
artists that are, and they alsoprovide it homeschooling and
paid for.
It.
Had a whole separate budget forthat.
No one else even thought ofthat.
(31:35):
No one else even considered thatwe went with jive and the rest
is history, but that's what mademe leave.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Tina.
I am literally on the edge of myseat.
I mean, I thought I kneweverything about you and I'm
just finding more and more gyms,friends.
I hope you enjoyed thisconversation.
Part one as much as I did.
And you have to stay tuned forpart two.
(32:05):
We need to find out more aboutTina's for Ray, into management
and with one of the biggestglobal artists today.
So Tina, thank you.
And I look forward to chattingwith you again for part two of a
conversation with Tina Davis.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yes.
Thank you.
This was awesome.
So today's guest.
She means a lot to me.
And I know you guys have heardher name on previous episodes of
no need to ask podcasts.
You've heard me talk about herconstantly because she really
had a huge impact and still doeson my life as most of you know,
(00:23):
I wrote a book and the book ispart autobiographical, and also,
you know, um, gives you helpfulbusiness tips, life tips.
And during the editing process,the editor pointed something out
to me and she said she wasconfused.
(00:45):
She said, in one part of thebook, you talk about Kevin
Liles, the founder CEO of 300entertainment a lot, and your
days working with him at Defjam.
And then she goes on to say, butyou also talk about this woman
named Tina Davis and you referto Kevin as you're day one, but
(01:09):
yet you started your career withTina.
It was one of those moments thatI really had to take pause and
sit with what she said for aminute.
You know, it's, it's interestinghow we women in the business
were so eager to try to make animpression, especially in an
(01:33):
industry that's so maledominated that you
subconsciously find yourself notgiving credit where credit is
due.
And so I wanted to take thistime to publicly apologize to my
friend, Tina Davis, for notrecognizing and giving her the
(01:53):
acknowledgement that she trulydeserves.
Tina Davis is my day one, nooffense to Kevin Liles.
But Tina Davis is my day one.
She took a chance on thiscollege kid.
She taught me how to be strongand how to work in an
environment that is so maledominated and not have my voice
(02:17):
muted.
So today's guests means a lot tome and Tina, I am sorry for not
acknowledging you as my day one.
And I don't even know thereasons why and the reasons why
don't, they don't even matter.
It was just wrong.
And it was unjust to you.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
[inaudible]
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Welcome to another episode of no need to ask
podcast.
My name is Amani Duncan, and Iwill be your host on this
journey.
I am so honored and grateful tohave the Tina Davis as my guest
on today's show.
Welcome Tina.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Uh, wow.
Thank you.
That just threw me for a loop,but you know what, I, I thank
you for even saying that thatmeans more to me than you could
ever imagine.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I love that.
Thank you for being so gracious.
So Tina Davis, you guys Googleher like she is responsible for
so much.
We're going to actually pullback the layers of the onion as
much as we can.
And this will actually be partone of our conversation because
it's simply impossible to puteverything that you need to know
(03:50):
about Tina Davis within oneepisode.
So please take a moment, grab apen and a pad because there will
be a lot of notes that you needto take during this particular
episode.
So Tina, where do we even begin?
I mean, I don't even know whereto begin, so I want to go back
(04:13):
to, you know, I always want togo back to people's like the
beginning of people's journeys,the reason why someone wanted to
be a doctor or lawyer or in themusic industry.
And I really want the people tohear this story because when you
started out, especially on thecreator side, can I count on one
(04:34):
hand the women that wereactually creating the music
we're actually running a and Rdepartments within a major
record label.
So take us back to the reasonwhy you were even interested in
delving into an industry thatwas so deficient with women and
(04:57):
especially women of color.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah.
You know, it's, it's crazybecause you know, when you're in
it, you don't think about that.
You don't think about, Hey, youknow what?
Um, there aren't a lot of womenin ANR.
I just had a dream.
I just had a goal to work withartists, learn artists, learn
the business.
I want it to be creative.
Um, I mean, I, I look back towhen I was in diapers with my
(05:21):
father playing the tar and mymother's singing and my brothers
singing.
And in a third grade, I startedgiving concerts at recess from
my, my, you know, colleagues,you know, doing all the records
that my mother and father playedon the radio and then, you know,
playing classical piano for 11years.
(05:42):
And it just, to me, it's, it'sthe path that was given to me.
Um, I look back at around 27 andsay, okay, what is this, what am
I going to do?
What, what is, what is God'spath for me?
Cause that's really, what'simportant for me.
What is God's path for me?
What am I supposed to do?
And at that time I was atgrandma's state and I was
(06:04):
studying, um, masscommunications.
I want to be Oprah.
I wanted to be a reporter, butat the time I had a love for
music and a friend of mineLaRonda Sutton was working in
music and her husband was alsoworking.
Darrell Sutton was working inmusic.
He was the vice president of anor for Virgin.
(06:24):
And she was, um, in a publishingcompany, I think EMI at the
time.
And at Grambling, you know, wehad Erica Badu, we had different
people there and it was just anatural love for it.
And after awhile I decided, youknow what, I want to go get in
the music business.
So it was, but before that, um,hip hop was introduced to me
(06:49):
when I was about 13, reallyyoung and I wanted to work for
Russell Simmons.
That's all I wanted to do waswork for Russell Simmons.
Wow.
And I wanted to work for Def jambecause I saw that Russell had
Def jam.
He was working with the artistswho was finding talent.
And that was when I realizedwhat position actually want to
find the talent and nurture thetalent to put them out.
(07:12):
So I said, that's what I want todo.
I want to immediately signRichie rich from, from, um,
Oakland, because he's, he's thebest rapper in the Bay area to
me.
So fast forward.
And, um, the Rhonda asked me tocome work for her at Christmas
music publishing as herassistant.
And at that time she literallytold me, listen, we're best
(07:34):
friends.
We go back.
So after about a year, we'regoing to be at each other's
throats.
So this one year, and this timeI'm going to let you go.
Just so spread your wings.
Wow.
And literally a year later shewas like, you got go.
(07:55):
And I was, I was totallystunned, but lo and behold,
she's, you know, helping me allalong.
And, um, it just turned out, youknow, Paul Stewart had PMP and
Def jam and, and he said, Hey,yeah, you know, I hear you're
going, you're leaving Chrysalis.
Are you open to come work forDef jam?
(08:16):
So I said, um, I, I want to knowmore about it, but I'm excited
to come work at an R for Defjam.
Now it was just for an, ouradmin and I was inside an ANR.
And I said anything to get mecloser to the real record
business.
Cause to me, publishing was inthe business, right.
Dealing with the artistsdirectly.
Right.
(08:37):
So, and I also told him, I said,and if I do come, I need Def jam
to be on my check.
That's what I need that for me.
He said, well, if I do that,then I need to put you on the
phone with Leo Cohen, everyone.
Yes.
Cohen.
And I said, okay, let's go.
That's right.
So, and again, I'm not thinking,Oh, I'm one of the only black
(09:01):
women that wants to do.
And are now there were otherwomen, Vivian Chu and others
that I was looking up to thatwere mentors that didn't even
know me.
Cause I was like assistant atthe time that I was looking up
to, you know, they're all a lotof Cassandra meals, wrong women
in the music business andrunning departments.
(09:23):
And our, there weren't as manywomen hip hop, there were little
or none.
There was Judy Dickson beforeme.
Um, there weren't that many.
Right.
But I didn't care that wasn'tabout it.
Wasn't about that.
It was what I wanted to do.
So he put me on the phone withyour, and it was my interview.
And Leo said, okay.
(09:45):
So tell me why you want to workfor Def jam.
I gave him my spiel about hiphop and Russell Simmons and Def
jam.
And he said, okay.
He says, you know, my company'sjanky.
Right.
I can't believe he said that.
And I said, it's janky.
I said, okay, well cool.
He said, I said, if it's janky,thank you for telling me that,
(10:06):
because I know when you do somejanky shit is to be expected.
And he laughed.
And he said, you're hired.
And I went from there andstarted crying too.
Because at that time it was veryhard.
There was someone before me whowasn't necessarily closing the
deals and trying to work outsituations with studios around
(10:28):
the area part because of theteams I had to clean that up.
And then, um, somehow PMP splitfrom Def jam and the are asking
me to run Def jam on the Westcoast.
And he wanted me to look for,you know, get all of our
equipment and move this.
We found an office.
And in that process I found thissong and that song was, this is
(10:53):
how we do it.
Montell Jordan to this day,those him, his wife, his family,
they are beautiful people.
They are, they are justbeautiful people.
Um, but that was the beginningof my and our career.
And what a hit.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
I mean, you came out of the gate like gang busters.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, man.
It was, it was a blessingbecause at that time we didn't
have a lot of people and youknow, you could do a little bit
of marketing, a little bit ofthis, a little bit of that.
We had more than one job.
We just did whatever was needed.
Exactly.
So at that point I was like,okay, we're moving to a new
office.
And I think that was close toaround the time when you started
(11:38):
calling Charlie.
Yeah.
I have somebody in here.
Somebody has to answer the phoneand do it.
It makes me rest in peace.
So when you kicked in and I tellthis story
Speaker 1 (11:57):
All the time, like I had just graduated from college
and had a complete meltdown anddecided one morning I was going
to work in the music business.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
I looked in the yellow pages, found Def jam West
called and you answered thephone.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
And I went into my little like recent college.
You were just like show uptomorrow.
I was like, uh, okay.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
I think,
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Okay.
And the rest is history, man.
I remember sitting in youroffice or one of the offices and
trying to transcribe lyrics.
I was like, what is Reddit?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
I can't
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Like rewind, rewind, rewind.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Like it was just
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Fall in and figure it out.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
And you would give me these contracts
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Or build out a BMI contract.
You know what I mean?
And I'm like splits and whatthe, but you were just like,
figure it out.
And you gave me the courage tojust figure it out.
And you know what I mean?
And you were just soinstrumental.
And I was like, this woman isincredible
Speaker 3 (13:08):
To see you interact with
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Chris Lighty and Lee, your and Kevin, like, I was
like, wow, this woman is I'mgoing to be her.
I'm going to be like her.
You know, I was like, she'sshowing me how to represent.
And you were so you're sorespected and you did it on your
terms.
And gosh, Montel was just thebeginning.
(13:34):
I mean, you create it, tell thepeople you created death bowl.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yeah.
Def so yeah.
How did that,
Speaker 1 (13:40):
I mean, that was such a great time.
I mean, how did that come aboutwhat made you say, okay, w we're
masters, you know, in hip hop,we are literally literally
running the game.
Okay.
Why not?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
How did that come about?
It's so crazy because, um, wehad case was already signed at
the time and, and this is how wedo it was built, obviously did
great.
And we were moving forward withother projects with him.
Um, and we started getting otherartists, we had milk and stuff.
And what I realized is that foryears when we sent and at that
(14:13):
time, radio was key.
You'd couldn't move withouthaving radio.
Absolutely nothing would movewithout it.
So I had, I thought about it andI said, you know what?
Every time we send a record toradio with our logo, because our
logo was on every single record.
It didn't matter if it wasmethod, man, red man LL cool.
J we had our bright that'sright.
(14:36):
Brian was bigger than theartists and the employees took
the logo.
And I realized that being inmind, you prior to me, even,
even getting into music when Iwas in college to pay for my
books and some of my otherthings, my fun, um, I was on
air.
I was an on air personality.
(14:57):
I was literally doing myhomework and programming,
whatever they were listening toin the city next to Grambling,
which was rust in Louisiana.
I was at my, my on airpersonality name was prophet T.
So, but I, I realized then evenwhen I was programming, then you
couldn't put a lot of reps inand out.
(15:20):
They weren't allowing rep totake over that hour.
So that being said, I said, youknow, we need to maybe put Def
soul on the things that are Rand B, so that when it is sent
to radio, they know todifferentiate between our rep
stuff and our R and B stuff,because they won't program it.
If they think it's just anotherRMB, a rap record.
(15:42):
Wow.
Thought it was brilliant.
Paid me for the idea.
And we trademarked it andstamped depths on everything
that was R and B.
Wow.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
So smart.
And that's the one thing that Ihave to cause I haven't found it
really.
I mean, those years at Def jamwere so special and the way we,
you know, and I say, we, becausewe were all so invested in
running the company, you know,and Leo just gave us the license
(16:17):
to own a piece of the company.
You know what I mean?
And it really taught us how, atleast it taught me how to
stretch, how to know somethingabout each department.
So that, I mean, we could haveall left and ran our own record
labels easily, easily.
(16:38):
You know what I mean?
Because we, there was no closeddoors.
Like if you want it to sit inKevin's office and here, you
know, just listen to him, doradio calls, which I did.
And that taught me how to closebecause Kevin was a closer, we
all know Kevin Liles closed allday every day, but to hear him
(17:01):
close, I was like, I'm justgetting like a master's class.
You know what I mean?
To watch you identify, you know,this is going to be a hit.
Like this is the one noteverybody can do that.
I know everybody thinks theycan, they can pick a hit.
They can't, you know what Imean?
I learned so much from justobserving you and being able to
(17:25):
listen in on these top levelconversations.
It, it really well rounded us.
And I think the one takeaway themost prominent takeaway, and I
think everyone says it, but theywere hard on us.
You know, there, there was noroom for excuses and that was
tough.
You know, we were young.
We were, you know, a lot oftimes this was like our first
(17:47):
year
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Real job, you know?
Like, yeah,
Speaker 1 (17:50):
It's hard, but it taught us.
There's always a soul.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Yes.
Don't I don't want to, I don'twant to hear about it.
Exactly.
Lastly, you are would say thatall the time, don't leave a
stone unturned.
Exactly.
You come to me, every stonebetter be turned off.
Cause he's going to pick itapart.
Has he's going to find a stop.
He's going to find it.
He's going to find it.
You're like boom.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
And him and Kevin with the, make it happen.
I don't care.
Make it happen between both ofthem.
You had no refuge.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Oh, I'm going to try to figure this out.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Oh my God, I'm just going to use it.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Every resource, everyone I know.
And we're going to make ithappen.
And the thing is we always did.
Yeah, we did.
Every single time made ithappen.
When I started at Def jam.
Kevin was the head ofpromotions.
Yes.
The president at that time, youknow, we were like sisters and
(18:52):
brothers desks.
We can argue and turn around andstill hug each other on the way
out, go to dinner, have a drink,have a drink.
It was never personal.
We accepted each other's passionand women.
A lot of times in corporatesettings or in those types of
settings, they feel like, Oh,you guys are just emotional.
(19:14):
No, they knew that we were thepassion.
And at that time, by the timeyou got there, especially there
were women all over that lot ofwomen running different, um,
projects, we were strong.
We were balanced.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yes.
And that, that really, you know,when you're a young kid, a young
woman coming up, I mean that tosee, you know, that there's a
tribe.
I mean, that's just like, I can,you know, we can lean on each
other and we can make anything.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
It was great.
It was so great.
How long were you with Def jam?
10 years.
Wow.
10 years.
Yeah.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
And you know, we can't forget under that imprint
death, soul.
I mean music, soul child.
I mean, there was just,
Speaker 3 (20:05):
I mean, you were just killing it.
I mean, I's, Lee's Patty.
I mean, he was just like, Oh mygosh, you were killing it.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
So you're over there at the height of the height.
Why like what prompted you tojourney?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
What the regime changed, Russell Lee or Kevin
Julie.
Everybody left.
Yes.
And, um, I was one of the fewpeople who were still there and
at an LA re came in and Iactually knew LA Reed prior to
working at Def jam really youngin the Chrysalis days because
(20:44):
now pass was signed toChrysalis.
Right.
So I got a chance to meet himand Babyface and Tracey Edmonds
and the family.
So I kind of introduced them toLee or, and Russell.
Wow.
I had already known them.
So when LA came in, you know, Iwas like, okay, this is all he
let me just go and do even moreor do even better than I did
(21:07):
before I was there for about sixmonths after everybody left six
months, I signed Neil.
I tried to invite a few otherpeople, but I learned so much
from LA in just that six months.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Wait a minute, we have to pause because I need
people.
These are the gyms.
Tina Davis signed Neo.
Y'all like, she says it like,it's just, you know, like
nothing, but this is a woman inthe business, a black woman in
the business and signing actsthat are worldwide at this
(21:42):
point.
So I'm sorry.
I just needed to take thatmoment and acknowledge these
gyms.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Carry on.
Yeah, man.
So I, you know, I signed themand um, LA of course was like,
you know what?
I love Neo.
He's amazing.
I need somebody younger.
I really need someone youngerthat can dance that, give me
another usher or something.
And I had Chris Brown, but Iwanted to Def jam.
(22:09):
Cause I wasn't sure if he wasgonna let me go.
Cause usually when regimeschange, they let you go.
He's going to eventually let mego.
You know?
And so I said, well, you knowwhat?
It doesn't hurt.
Let me just play it form.
So just in case, so I played itfor him.
He was like, who is this guy?
(22:29):
Whoa, to meet this kid.
And by this time I already goneto Virginia.
I've asked him to come inbecause LA used to have, you
know, people coming to officehave to perform so you can
actually see how they wouldperform and see whether they had
the it factor.
Right.
So I had them come in and Isaid, okay, I need you to
(22:53):
perform for all my assistants inmy department.
So he performed and he wascracking and things like that.
It wasn't as clear as you wouldwant it to be.
But he was a 13 year old kid,you know?
So I turned around and said,listen, I want you to go and
perform for my counterpart,Karen Kwok.
(23:14):
And then I want you to go to LA,but I want you to first fix
these little things that I needyou to work on, which is here,
I'm giving, I'll give you sometea, so you're not cracking.
But what I'd like for you to dois I'm going to put more people
in the room and I'm going tobring them in, in the room as
well.
And he said, okay.
And I said, I want you to onlysing to the women, do not sing
(23:38):
to the men.
Okay.
Acknowledge them when they comein and say hello, but when you
start singing, sing to thewomen, respectfully grabbed
their hand.
When you say, Hey there, Heygirl, you know, act this out for
me.
I said, and the main woman willprobably be sitting at her desk.
When you finish on your lastnote, I want you to go to her
(23:59):
and get on your knee and singfor.
And he said, okay, I love it.
How old was he at this time?
He was 13.
Oh my goodness.
13.
So I brought him in, he sang forher and she was like, Oh my God.
I was like, LA is next.
I like, for real, she was like,Oh my God, he's a star.
So she's hidden LA I had alreadyhit LA.
(24:21):
So by the time we finished, thatwas like, okay.
LA is like, bring them up.
We put, we did it.
I told them again.
Now we're going to have morepeople again.
I want you to only talk to thewomen.
Don't even look at LA your wholeperformance.
I'm out of respect, but I needyou to make sure you talk to the
women, touch their face
Speaker 5 (24:42):
Respectfully.
Right, right.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
And he said, okay.
I said, and again, fine,whatever woman you choose, but I
want you on your last note, onyour knee singing.
The last note, he said, Oh, hemurdered it.
Of course he did killed it.
And of course you did LA stoodup and was like, what?
So long story short in that timewe started negotiating his deal
(25:09):
on Thursday.
LA LA my mind you let me taketwo steps back.
LA gave me a contract for threeyears.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
Okay.
At this point.
Right?
Okay.
Lock you in.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Yeah.
It might be, keep trying to keepme okay.
Yeah, because my contract wasup.
So yeah.
And one day Montell Jordan'swife came to my office and I was
holding the contract.
Cause I was like, I don't know.
Am I gonna, should I look atsomebody else?
Should I talk to someone else?
My attorney was reaching out toother people, other labels,
acid, man.
I don't know if I want to goback to another label though,
(25:43):
because I did leave Def jam forseven months and worked at
Columbia.
And I didn't like it.
I said, I don't know.
And she came in the office.
She said, you know what, babe?
I'm in LA, in New York.
And God told me to come in hereand tell you if LA has you to
sign another contract, sign itbecause he's probably going to
fire you right after it.
This is just her saying this tome.
(26:04):
He's probably going to fire youright after that.
But God is telling me to tellyou this, to sign it.
So you have security for thenext three or four years.
And I said, I said, Oh, you are.
Like, I told you, all I need isfor you.
God is I follow what he bringsto me.
It's my, his path.
Right?
It's my path.
So I signed a contract.
(26:25):
No problem.
So going back to where Chris wasnegotiating his contract, his
attorney wasn't negotiating thecontract on Thursday.
We worked out the last deal termon Monday, Chris was coming to
New York to take the signingphoto.
You know, back then we used tohave signing
Speaker 5 (26:44):
Photos in the conference room.
Everyone's hovering around
Speaker 3 (26:53):
That Monday.
He was supposed to come well,Friday morning, I get to the
office and human resources askedme to come upstairs.
We've negotiated the last termon Thursday, Friday, I get up.
I drop everything on my desk andgo upstairs.
By the time I'm done, they'velet me go.
They've given me my severancepackage.
Nice.
(27:13):
And I said, okay.
They, they didn't escort me out.
They just asked me to leavetoday.
So I went down to my desk tograb my purse and grabbed my
phone.
And the phone was ringing when Igot into my office and it was
Chris.
And he said, ms.
Tina, don't go to work.
They're going to fire you today.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Wait, how did he know that?
Speaker 3 (27:34):
I said, how do you know that?
He said, cause they called meand said that they want me to
still sign.
Even though they're going to letgo of Tina Davis.
And I said, what I say, wow.
I said, sweetie, honestly, it'sokay.
I, wow.
Let me go.
And if there is anything, Idon't care.
If I'm at a label or not, youare the next Michael Jackson and
(27:58):
you are special.
And if there's anything I can doto help you call me, I'm here.
So that Saturday, his mother and, and Chris and his mother
called me and said, would youmind being our manager?
What I said, absolutely.
I would love to be your manager.
Now, mind you, I didn't want tobe anybody's manager.
(28:19):
Right?
We'll never want it to be amanager.
Right?
You don't do, you know, look atChris Brown and know what it is
and ignore that.
Exactly.
So I said, okay, well I can'twork in another company because
otherwise my severance packagesvoid it.
This is what God's plan is forme.
Oh my God, Tina.
So I ended up, I said, well, doyou want to try a couple other
(28:43):
labels since I'm no longer atDef jam?
And I'm your manager.
Cause I can reach out to otherlabels.
And since they don't even knowwho you are, they aware that
we're getting ready to sign thenext Michael Jackson.
So when I do that, I can up yourdeal.
Exactly.
And he said, okay.
I said, so by Wednesday I hadfive other offers on the table.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
It's been beside himself.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
He was beside himself.
But he was more beside himselfwhen Chris said, I want to meet
with Def jam, but I want to, Iwant LA and Karen Kwok and
everybody in the room, but Iwant you on the other side of
the table with us.
And I want to see what they'reand feel their energy and see
how they act in that space.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
And I was like, okay,
Speaker 3 (29:26):
If you go at Def jam, it'll be good business.
I'm not going to, I don't haveany hurt feelings by this.
This has been right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And this happens all the timewhen you have a regime change.
So just know that.
And he said, okay, so we got inthere and we sat with him on the
other and LA and Karen, Oh, welove Tina.
We love Tina.
And Chris said, well, why'd youlet her go?
(29:46):
Well, because you know, we havea new regime and we have
multiple people in that sameposition we left elec.
Chris said, no, I don't believethem.
But LA put usher on the phonewith him.
So they were all trying to docertain things to get him.
The thing is, is before Leo andKevin even saw Chris, they sent
(30:10):
an offer to me that doubled withDef jam had on the table.
Wow.
If you want me telling, listen,this kid is it.
So I had already had that.
Um, but we went and met withseveral other people, including
jive and Kurt.
And you know, Chris said, well,slate and Johnson told me that
(30:31):
jive is horrible with theirblack artists.
And I need to not work for Johnor sign a jive.
I said, you should go into jiveform.
Like it's the best performancethat you're going to give
regardless because the chatterand the business helps to build
this momentum.
And he said, exactly.
I said, just go have fun.
(30:51):
I said, okay.
He killed it.
Of course, before we got, whenwe got downstairs, I said, we
shouldn't have let you leave thebuilding.
Please don't leave the building.
I said, I'm already on my way tohis attorney's office.
He's hungry.
I'm getting something to eat.
And then over to the attorney,I'm trying to make a deal within
the next two or three days.
So by the time he went to lunchand got back, the deal was even
(31:14):
doubled.
So now we have like two, 3million on the table versus
like, God.
So we chose jive because theyhad experience with, um, younger
artists that are, and they alsoprovide it homeschooling and
paid for.
It.
Had a whole separate budget forthat.
No one else even thought ofthat.
(31:35):
No one else even considered thatwe went with jive and the rest
is history, but that's what mademe leave.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Tina.
I am literally on the edge of myseat.
I mean, I thought I kneweverything about you and I'm
just finding more and more gyms,friends.
I hope you enjoyed thisconversation.
Part one as much as I did.
And you have to stay tuned forpart two.
(32:05):
We need to find out more aboutTina's for Ray, into management
and with one of the biggestglobal artists today.
So Tina, thank you.
And I look forward to chattingwith you again for part two of a
conversation with Tina Davis.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yes.
Thank you.
This was awesome.
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