August 21, 2020 • 45 mins
Welcome to Part 2 of “A Conversation with Music Industry Leader Tina Davis” for No Need to Ask podcast. Our conversation was so good I had to make it into two parts.
We ended Part 1 of the episode with a bit of a cliff hanger, so Tina takes us through her experience managing Chris Brown and single-handedly evolving him from a young teenager into a global superstar. Tina’s sheer determination to show the industry and the industry the greatness of her artist did not come with its challenges. But Tina’s angels were surrounding her and guided her safely to solid grounds.
I remain inspired by Tina and I know she will have the same positive impact on you. There are so many learnings you can take away from our conversation and apply to your current position regardless of the industry you work in.
Thank you for listening and if you enjoyed this episode, please write a review. It means a lot to me.
Until we speak again, please continue to be safe.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
[inaudible]
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to another edition of no needs as podcast.
My name is Amani Dunkin, and Iwill be your host on this
journey.
So today is part two of aconversation with music industry
veteran, Tina Davis.
So join me in welcoming Tinaback to no need to ask podcast.
(00:37):
Hey Tina.
Hey.
Hi.
So we left everyone with a bitof a cliffhanger.
It was right.
It was a good one too.
It was, you were talking a bitabout the beginning of managing
CRISPR out, so let's pick rightback up there.
Okay.
Well, I mean, Barry Weiss, um,it's so funny because I went in
(01:02):
to see Barry Weiss with Chris,um, well with his music and I
told him I really want, you know, you to check out this kid.
And, um, after we did theshowcase, obviously I think I
mentioned that Chris reallydidn't want to do it.
He went in there and knocked itout.
And, um, after, you know, beforewe got out of there trying to
(01:23):
get, you know, stop us fromleaving.
But Barry was the person whosigned him in that time.
Uh, Chris Lighty was working.
There are Chris Lighty right.
And Mark Pitts was workingthere.
And because I had worked withChris for so many years and Mark
and I kept saying, we gotta dosomething together.
We gotta do something together.
I asked him to put Mark Pitts onthe project, um, Mark call, you
(01:47):
know, and Mark, of course he wasthere to support all the way
through.
And he and Tesa, Tesa.
I love her to death.
She's like a sister to me.
Um, but for the most part, youknow, I was doing the grind all
by myself and I would go thepeople.
I mean, several people that havecome back to me that have come
back to me afterwards, butbegging them to please work on
this kid.
(02:07):
I know we don't have a lot ofmoney.
I were just starting a blah,blah, blah.
And it was before he signed ajob, of course, but I was like,
yo, listen, Swiss, everybody,check this kid out.
And I kept saying, he's the nextMichael Jackson?
And you know, you got usher, yougot Amaria, you got all these.
And they're like, okay.
So when we finally did our videorun it the right video, um,
(02:33):
everybody was like, Oh, and, andto just a quick story before we,
you know, went forward, I said,listen, so Chris, at this point,
he's 15, Chris wrote histreatment.
So we'd like to use histreatment for his video.
And the video back then videowas like$207,000.
(02:53):
Exactly.
Like, Oh no, you're not.
And I was like, Oh yes, we are.
You know, like, listen, we'reall too old to even say what
these kids really love.
Right.
You know who he's talking to.
He knows what his friends wouldlove.
So let's let this kid controlhis destiny.
So I talk very into it.
They allowed it to happen.
(03:13):
But the thing, the crazy thingis, is I kept saying, run it as
the single run as a singleright.
And he was like, no, we didresearch.
We did.
I paid all this money for allthis research.
And the reason was the singlethat's the wow with.
And I said, no, we should gowith running.
And he said, no.
And I said, okay.
(03:33):
So I took it and they gave it toEbro
Speaker 3 (03:40):
97.
Everyone grow at hot 97 years.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yes.
And enough, he, they bothsupported me and they started
playing it like early, early,early on.
And then Bidvine started playingit and in the Bay area.
And, uh, so obviously the restis history.
Um,
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Massive, massive.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
And Barry also told me, Hey, you know, it wasn't
just, Barry was everybody reallynervous?
Cause they had never seen Chrisdance.
Right.
They were like, you know, usherholds that, that crown, I
wouldn't, you know, it mighthurt him to dance in his video.
He's not better than us.
I said, believe me, he needs todance in this video.
And they're like, Tina, you're,you're going to ruin this kid's
(04:21):
life.
I was like, no, I'm trying totell you, he would come back.
They see the videos, like, whatthe hell are we talking about?
Exactly.
So, you know, they not to saythat he was better than not
sure.
Or, or what have you, or usherwas better than him.
It's just, they hadn't seen himin that.
Right.
So when he held his own, he heldhis own.
So, you know, I I've managed himfor a while.
(04:42):
Did a lot of it by myself, meand another assistant.
Um, her name is Nicole Dupree.
She works with me now, actually,Nicole, we worked together on
it.
Um, had a couple otherassistants and um, but they kind
of would like really kind ofhelping both of us to kind of
get it moving forward.
And the rest is history like
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Incredible.
And I don't think Tina peopleunderstand like I'm, as you're
telling me and all of thelisteners that you basically did
it yourself.
I don't think people reallyunderstand what that means.
You know, management.
I, you know what, I'm not gonna,I want you to tell people really
(05:24):
what is the day to day job?
Like what does a day in the lifeof Tina Davis?
What would that look like?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, because it's 24 seven.
No.
And that's the thing aboutmanagement is that, um, and
especially Chris, Chris is acreative genius, literally a
creative genius.
So his mind is constantlyworking.
He doesn't stay still becausehe's constantly trying to do
dance.
He's trying to play basketball.
He's trying to act, he trying todo everything.
(05:54):
So I had to occupy his time fourhours a day.
So sometimes I would take himand his friends and send them,
take him to a basketball courtand let them one for a good four
hours.
Right.
I could get in there and knockout some emails, reach out, send
tapes and musics and links andvideos, trying to get people to
believe in him and believe thathe's the next guy.
(06:17):
Um, but for the most part, itwas really just trying to hone
in and fine tune the things thathe had learned already.
And that he was great at, atdrawing.
When I met him, he was great atbasketball.
When I met him, he was great atsinging when I met him.
Um, he just needed to, I justneeded to kind of, um, you know,
(06:37):
shine up the rough edges.
Right.
You know, make sure that he knewhow to deal with different
people and make sure he hadvocal training.
Um, make sure he had mediatraining, make sure that all the
things that he needed in theartist development department
was taken care of.
So when it hit, he was ready.
So every time Chris would do aninterview, people would be
(06:57):
surprised at how aware and howsmart and how articulate he was.
But for months we studied, hestudied Sam cook.
He studied Marvin Gaye.
He studied Otis Redding.
He started studied everythingunder the sun.
He studied usher, studied Amaria.
He would go to the crumping likesessions.
And back then world of dance wasan actual event that happened,
(07:23):
um, in a auditorium or at adifferent place.
I think it was like, um, inlandempire, Chris, we would take
Chris out there and it'd behundreds of kids out there just
crumping dancing.
And he was out there learningit, learning it.
And so I was always occupyinghis time and trying to get him
(07:44):
to just suck up as muchinformation.
My biggest thing with Chris washe was so smart that I wanted
him to control his destiny, butI wanted him to make a decision
on what he wanted to do.
You know, whether it was, thisis the photo or this photo, or
should you make this comment orthis comment?
Um, so I want him to be aware ofthe music industry as well.
(08:05):
So if I wasn't managing him orif I wasn't working with him, no
one could get over on him.
You know, that was man.
I don't know if that was mywhole day.
That was just the period.
Just constantly trying to gethim to try and be the best, you
know, Jackson like left andright.
Like every time he had a seconduntil he finally got a chance to
(08:27):
meet him,
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Oh wait, how was that?
It must have been hands down thehighlight of his life.
It really, it would have been,
Speaker 2 (08:38):
It was the highlight of all of our lives.
That's exactly.
I mean, honestly it really was.
He, um, he had this tributecause you know, Mike was gone
for a while and he wasn'trecording any, he wasn't doing
shows.
So I forgot what award show itwas.
Think it was the world awardaward, um, in the UK, but they
(09:01):
will attribute to Michael andthey'd wanted someone to do, to
do thriller.
So they called Chris three daysbefore the award show.
Oh my gosh.
And asked Chris to do thriller.
And he had to learn thechoreography with the man who
originally did the choreographyor work with the choreography.
So wow.
Which we didn't realize until hedid it is that, you know, when
(09:23):
people watch it on TV, they dothe moves, but they're doing it
the opposite direction.
They're not doing it in the samedirection.
And Michael was doing it becausethey're watching it from TV.
So he learned it, but he learnedit the wrong way.
So he had to re learn that dancemove.
Cause you know, all kids knewthat the thriller, everybody
knew, right.
(09:44):
He had to learn it all himself.
So then we get out there andthere's like 30 dancers that he
had never danced with, neverperformed with.
And they were to come on thestage and just do it.
And he would, he would sing anddo what he's supposed to do and
join him.
Well, he was so nervous to meetMichael that he started singing
(10:04):
any sound great.
He sang the verse twice.
The same verse.
He just was so excited aboutseeing Michael.
So he sang the verse twice.
No one noticed cause he was justkilling it.
He was just, of course.
So then we waited for like 45minutes for Mike to come out, to
be with the kids.
And finally, when he came the,um, there was a noise ordinance.
(10:27):
So at 11 o'clock or somethinglike that, lights have to be out
in that venue, no noise.
So Mike took a little while tocome down the stairs.
So when he finally came out, hedidn't have a lot of time to
before.
So he started performing with awhole bunch of kids and Chris on
the stage.
Right.
And Chris, everybody was excitedabout Michael, but Chris,
(10:51):
instead of singing with Michael,which he was supposed to do,
right.
He ran over to him and grabbedhim and held him at his waist
and just held him for a secondand then realized, I think he,
in his head, he was like, Oh,I'm supposed to be performing.
Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, he stopped andstarted performing.
And then they shut the moviedown in the middle of Michael
(11:11):
performance.
Mike would heat it.
Oh wow.
Yes.
Respectful.
We were mad because we werelike, don't do that to Mike.
Well, Mike was supposed to meetChris afterwards.
Like that was our understandinghis manager.
She was a sweetheart.
But she was saying, yes, we willmake sure that they get a chance
to talk.
Well, so we get to the back.
(11:32):
Mike jumps strike straight inhis car with his manager and his
team.
And they're starting to head outthe door.
Now, mind you, we're sittinghere watching this go down.
But Chris had left.
He was hurt.
So he left room to change hisclothes and go get in the car.
He was all the way in his carwaiting for us upset.
Wow.
Right.
Cause he says idol, you knowexactly.
(11:55):
They're going out of the garage,out of the backstage before they
go out, they stop.
And then back up, back, back inand we're like, what the hell is
going on?
And all of a sudden you hearwhere's Chris Brown.
Where's Chris Brown.
Where's Chris.
(12:16):
So Chris ends up running outsideof the venue with all the fans
out there, chasing him all theway up to the loading dock.
So we're like I said, okay, he'scoming up back.
He got the fans behind.
Now.
Chris is fast as hell.
Wow.
He's fast.
He's strong.
And so he was rolling.
Right?
His security was nowhere nearhim.
(12:39):
He's running.
And he comes up the loading dockand gets in the car with
Michael, like barely makes it.
So he gets in the car withMichael.
His mom is standing.
I told his mom get in the carwith Michael.
You know what I mean?
Cause I'm standing outside thecar.
But the pandemonium of even Sonyexecutives, what plaques handed
(13:01):
to me?
Can you just give him this?
I'm like, so he's in there.
They're singing.
Um, he's singing Christmasrecords.
Chris's mom is in tears.
I shake his hand.
I'm like, Oh my God.
But real talk.
I felt like there was an auraaround us.
Like this bubble we were in, youknow what I mean?
(13:22):
It was like, Oh my God, youknow, Oh man, we'll go down in
history.
Now just another little add onto that with the day that Mike
was passing Chris and I believeJamie Fox were on their way up
to meet Mike because Mike hadasked for Chris to come up to
see him.
And we talked a little bit andwe were talking about and
(13:44):
hearing rumbles of him, wantingto offer Chris, pass the torch
to Chris and ask Chris to openup for him.
And we were praying.
We were like, Oh my God, Chriscircling the place.
And they say, I'm sorry, but myprojection has passed now.
I see it on the news.
So I have to tell Chris he hadto start driving.
(14:05):
Like it was hard for him to evenhandle.
Cause it was, he was literallyat the arena going to see
Michael.
Wow.
So it was pretty long, but thatwas an experience in the hat.
I don't even have the words.
I don't even have the words.
This is amazing.
(14:25):
And I love how he did it.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Not leave the venue until he met with him.
Nope.
I mean that speaks volumes.
It really does.
I mean, this is Michael Jackson.
He don't, he doesn't have to doanything.
You know what I'm saying?
And that's wow.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
I have met with a lot of words are spoken with a lot
of people.
He spoke with Brianna.
I spoke to Neo and like, whywon't he talk to me?
Well, you know, he's young andhe's like, I saw that he talked
to other artists.
Why won't even talk to me?
I said, it's coming.
Just wait a moment.
What a moment.
No one else had that moment.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
You know, Tina, you, I know because I watch managers
and especially when you'redealing with a young artist that
is skyrocketing, what do you doto kind of just disconnect
Speaker 2 (15:21):
In that time?
I didn't, honestly, my lifepretty much was centered around
trying to break Chris because Ihad no other option.
I didn't take another job.
And that money that I wasspending on trying to break
Chris, I was spending all themoney that LA Reed gave me in
that deal on breaking Chris, amI trying to have a production
(15:43):
situation with him?
I was just a manager trying toprove to everyone that I could
do it.
Right.
Um, and so as we continue, youknow, all the way, even up to
the point to where it was theDrake and Chris issue in that
club, right.
I was just taking it in and notdealing with what was going on.
(16:06):
Not dealing with the stress, notdealing with the, just all the
emotional things that werehappening at that time.
Cause every other day there wassomething different, you know,
Oh, Chris is in a club and hethrew a girl's phone.
Oh Chris.
And they're suing him.
Then Chris is in a club and he'sbreathing on somebody.
They're suing them versus on theclub.
And he just walked by and gavethem a bad look.
(16:28):
They're screwing them.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
I mean, it was ridiculous.
I mean, I was like, come on,
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I read it it's real life.
Sometimes it was just themmaking it up sometimes was
making it up sometimes.
You know what I mean?
Right.
And it was at a time wherebelieve it or not, it sounds
crazy to say this, but there wasno Instagram.
There was only Twitter and wayback then.
I mean, not, not of courseafter, as that started going,
(16:55):
but when he first, when it firsthappened, the right scenario,
you know, it was, he was, it wasin the beginning of Instagram
and, and Twitter and all thesethings.
So before when Chris hadsomething to say, he, he could,
nobody could ever hear itbecause he'd say me and then not
filter it to be what it'ssupposed to be for when Twitter
(17:17):
happened.
He would just say what he felt.
So and write the, so he hademotions that he wasn't able to
actually put into words.
So he would use valet orwhatever.
He, you know, he's still young.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Like it's frustrates me when people talk about
celebrities or musicians orwhatever.
And they don't even take intoconsideration.
You know, what age was thisperson at when this happened?
Like
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Chris started so, so young.
Yes.
Yes.
He was, he was 18 when thesituation happened with the
horrible thing happened with heand Rihanna.
Um, and so as time progressed,you know, and you gotta think
about this also, this is a kidwho had fame at 16, 15, 16, so
(18:08):
16, 16.
He didn't have to do anything.
Everybody doing his hair doing,is this doing that, doing that.
So there's are arresteddevelopment there.
You know what I mean?
It's like anybody, every artisthas a situation where they don't
have to try to learn anymore.
They don't have to try to doanything else because all
they're focused on is theircareer and with being great at
what they do, right?
(18:29):
Knowing the right words to say,when somebody attacks you and
they don't even know you, andthey're calling you, it's
telling you to die on yourTwitter.
And you're only seven, 15 yearsold or you're 17 years old or
you're 18 years old.
And they're saying you shoulddie in hell and all of that,
every tweet you don't.
How do you even respond to that?
Right.
You know what I mean?
As an 18, 17 year old kid.
(18:51):
So it was very hard to do.
So the stress level was at 1,001day after the Drake and Chris
craziness, um, Russell Simmonscalled me like, Tina, listen, we
need to resolve this.
We need to get Drake and Chrison the same page, this doesn't
need to happen.
This is bad.
I was like 100%, but Chrisdidn't do it.
(19:13):
And then, you know, supportingmy client and Russell stopped.
He say, wait, you sound likeyou're about to have a nervous
breakdown.
And I said, Russell and I wasliterally, my voice was like at
the top.
And he was like, stop, stop,stop.
You're having a nurse.
You're getting ready to have anervous breakdown.
(19:34):
You need, hold on.
I'm gonna call you right backwith, um, we said, you need to
get into meditation.
You need to start doing such andsuch.
He said, forget about Chrisright now.
We need to talk about you.
I've never heard you like thisbefore in my life, Tina.
Oh my God.
I was like, okay.
Okay.
And I could feel it.
I could feel me having a nervousbreakdown.
And I said, okay, all right.
Just tell me, tell me what, whatI need to do.
(19:56):
And he was like, I'm going tohave them call you and I'll pay
for it.
Just go to Tim, go to atranscendental meditation, take
the classes and then lessreaddress man.
Probably be best thing that everhappened to me because no matter
how much you work out, no matterhow much when you have that, I
(20:18):
was in crisis management modefrom 18 years old for the rest
of his managing career, mymanagement career of him.
And it was, it was hard becauselike I said, every other day it
was something I had to fight.
Get up at four o'clock in themorning to a phone call saying,
Hey, you know, Chris justpunched this guy, dah, dah, dah.
And I'm like, well, you know,whether it was a lie or not,
(20:39):
they're still, the calls arestill coming to me.
Right.
And I'm waking up Geragos, I'mwaking up his mother, I'm waking
up.
You know, I'm getting in thecar, driving DC, getting in the
car, getting on a plane, tryingto get to wherever Chris is at.
You know, just trying to makesure that this kid has a
support.
Richard is, um, you know, atthis time he was a kid.
So it was like, just make surehe had what he needed and that
(21:01):
he was functioning properly.
And me knowing how he was and meknowing how creative it was, he
was and how he would hold thingsin and not, not necessarily deal
with them.
He just holds her.
I'm like dealing with that.
You know what I mean?
Dealing with him being upset andnot wanting to do the things I
need him to do.
You know, that, that go alongwith social media at the time
(21:25):
and people were just learningabout it.
And people were starting to haveopinions, um, bullies behind
keyboards.
That's what I say.
Well, he's behind keyboardtrying to get him on good
morning America and all thesedifferent things and all they
want to talk about as Rihannaand him and you know, so it was
a lot.
(21:45):
Um, so like I said, Russell gaveme that transcendental
meditation, um, offer.
I took it and it literallychanged my life.
It just centered me.
It calmed me immediately.
And it allowed me to have theskin, the thick skin.
Cause I always had a thick skin.
You can't work.
Right.
But I had a thick skin to beable to take all those emotions
(22:10):
that I have from Def jam.
That was cooped up to theemotions I had in dealing with
Chris that were cooped up to theemotions of me being a woman,
trying to prove to all these menthat I could do this on my own
and give them the best.
Right.
Because the things that I havedone in my career, men have
gotten labels from men of thatand huge checks from men.
And I didn't get anything.
(22:31):
Exactly.
Well, you need to do something.
Maybe you need to break artistson your own.
Even when I broke an artist onmy own, nobody ever gave me
credit for it.
You know what I'm saying?
So yes, I do chasing a PR PRperson.
I wasn't like, Oh, I have apublicist and this is what I
did.
I've never done that.
So in me not doing that though,men took credit for the things
(22:51):
that I did.
Yes.
So it was a lot going on for me,you know?
So at that time, so through thatlifeline
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Giving me literally chills because when you, when
you stop and really think aboutit, like it's not like you
called Russell for something,Russell just felt the need to
pick up the phone and call you.
And thank God he did because youwere at your breaking point.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I was there.
I was there
Speaker 3 (23:26):
And thank God that he did not ignore the signs.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
He knew me because people who, there are people I
talk to all the time.
They're people who I don't talkto that think they know me, but
I'm a very private person.
I'm extremely private.
But part of it also is I was anANR.
We don't go out to clubs likethat.
We are in a studio where ourconversations are about music.
(23:53):
It's not about.
So even for that matter, even tothis day, I'm socially awkward,
like going out to a party.
I'm like somebody I'm like, I'mlike, okay, she knows who I am.
I don't know.
I don't.
Everyone knows you, Tina.
(24:14):
I remember the Grammy party.
Hello, Empire's Grammy party.
That was off the chain.
So yes, people know Tina Davis,but I love how humble you are
and how you stick to your corevalues.
Honestly, that's saying, asyou're talking to me, he checked
in on his strong friend.
He checked man, Amani checked onhis strong friend because no one
(24:40):
else checked in because peopledon't check in on strong.
Tina has this, you know, this iswhy I asked about the self care
because we as womentraditionally, just by default,
we don't, you know, give back toourselves normally, you know?
And that's why I constantly talkabout it.
(25:01):
I check up with people like,okay, what are you doing for
self care this week?
You know?
And they're like, Oh right.
You know, we have to retrainourselves.
Cause it's just not a naturalthing that most of us do.
And I saw, you know, one goodthing of social media.
I saw someone post, just thewords, check in on your strong
friend.
(25:21):
And it hit me hard.
It really did because we're, youknow, we're strong women, black
women.
We have so many things workingagainst us that we try to not
show weakness.
We try to take on way too muchto prove something to somebody
that probably doesn't evenmatter.
Right.
You know, all the time.
(25:44):
And a lot of us are, I mean,we're suffering.
We are dog tired, you know?
And most of the time peopledon't check on us.
Not at all, not at all.
And you know, it was crazybefore Russell, there was one
other person that says somethingto me and it came full circle
because I ended up doing TM,transcendental meditation, and I
(26:05):
was walking in and that personwas walking out.
But this person I'm droppingChris.
I told you I'd drop in Chris andhis friends off at the, at the
basketball court.
Cause I'm like, okay, go playbasketball.
Get all that energy out at thecourt.
Now at this point, you know,whenever we were to Def jam,
we'd be fly.
Have, you know, designer bootsand all this.
(26:25):
By this time I got on a sweater,I'm not to do nothing extra.
Cause I gotta go.
I got the things to do.
I dropped him off and this guystops me.
He's like, and I'm like, Hey, isDavid banner.
Oh.
And I'm like, Hey, he said, letme talk.
(26:47):
So he gets in the car and yousaid, you know, who tell you the
story about, and I'm looking athim like, what is he, what he's
like, let me tell you the storyabout this woman.
I wasn't in the studio yearsago, this woman, as soon as I
walked in, it was clouds ofsmoke, kind of guys all up.
And then n****s all up in thereis what he said and n****s all
up in there and cloud of smokeand the smoke clears a little
(27:08):
bit and they do something.
Um, they record something.
And then all of a sudden I hearthis one woman.
And as soon as I realized it wasa woman, I found out where the
one was.
I looked and it was likesunshine.
She just brightened the room.
Everybody paid attention.
When she talked, when she hadsomething to say, she was
focused.
She knew what she was talkingabout.
And everybody respected her, butshe brought so much sunshine in
(27:30):
the room.
And that was you.
And I said, Oh, thank you forshines night here.
And whatever is causing you tolook this depressed or sad or
whatever's going on.
Get rid of it because you, youdon't deserve to be in this
space.
I can see it.
It's weighing heavy on you.
At this point, tears are comingdown my face, hold all my stuff
(27:54):
in.
I don't tell anybody anything.
So to see it broke me down.
So I left there and I was like,Oh my God.
Oh my God.
You know, it went back to work.
It was like, Oh my God, Oh myGod.
I went back to work.
What am I going to tell?
(28:14):
Who's going to hear me.
You know?
So going back to Russell, whenhe had to go to Tim and I walked
in, I saw him and I just huggedhim.
I was like David banner, Davidman.
Wow.
Beautiful guy.
Right?
Wow.
Never would have thought of allthe people who would see all the
stress and hurt and emotionstied into what I was doing.
(28:36):
Just trying to do it by myself.
You know what I mean?
Trying to be taught, to prove toeverybody I'm a woman and I can
do what these men are doing.
Right.
Well, my chance, I never gotthat chance.
They never knew me.
At one point, Chris was numberone, top five on all radio
platforms with three differentrecords, all in one marketing
strategy of trying to get thingsdone and not to say, you know,
(28:58):
jive wasn't there.
Cause they were there to supportme.
Lisa, Cambridge, Sam, baby, Sam,like everybody, Larry Kahn.
Everybody was there with me andsupport me.
Um, but there was no anybodyelse behind me pulling strings
for me right there.
It is like, Hey, let me givethis a call and hook you up with
this.
I didn't get those.
(29:20):
So the only one I did have wasJimmy Ivy.
And after a while that's a goodone.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
That's a good one.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah.
Wow.
Wow.
You know, I believe people comein
Speaker 3 (29:34):
To your life at the right time.
Not a minute before and not aminute later.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
And David coming in
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Randomly last person, you would expect to see in
delivering that message.
Right.
And then Russell, just pickingup the phone calling you
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Here, could hear it in your voice,
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Tina.
I mean, I am in awe of yourstrength, but more importantly,
I am so proud that you camethrough successfully on the
other side.
Thank you.
I really am.
And what an inspiration to allthe women that are listening and
even the men, you know, youproved the naysayers wrong
(30:23):
countless times and you made aname, a huge loud name for
yourself.
And when it was time to giveback to you, you did, and here
you are still standing stillwith sunshine and it moved on to
something even bigger andbrighter.
(30:44):
So talk to us about what you'recurrently doing.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
It's empire.
I am at empire, um, I'm head ofANR and obviously it's the same,
you know, and ours and our, um,but you know, the, the thing is,
it feels like empire feelsdefinitely like Def jam.
When I first started, you know,has the it's building a
structure is building employees.
(31:10):
It's, it's um, doing what themajors are doing on a, on a
boutique level, but still beingnimble enough to be able to be
independent, but doing what themajors are doing.
So it's an hybrid between adistribution company and a major
label forever artists felt, andthey still do feel like they
(31:30):
have to go do a major deal justto be able to be successful.
Right.
They never had the optionbefore, so they're not as aware.
So when they figure out, Oh,wait a minute, empire actually
will give me everything that Ineed from a major, but I
actually own it.
I actually really truly own 50%of it.
(31:51):
I'm not doing a royalty baseddeal and paying and paying them
back 10 cents on a dollar.
I'm paying them back dollar 50cents on a dollar.
So it's a real generationalwealth type of business that
we've been running on that God'screated.
Um, so it's great because Idon't feel like I'm in a
(32:13):
situation where I'm taking theseartists, taking, taking
advantage of them.
You know, it's, the company isnamed correctly because it is
about building empires foreverybody else.
You know?
So being in that position to beable to do that and it being
small enough to be like Def jamwas at that time, like I said,
before, you do five differentthings, you can do a little bit
(32:35):
of marketing.
You could do a little, whateveryou are good at to help artist
when you can do it, you know,and you can learn.
And if you're in marketing andyou find a great talent, you can
bring, you can sign it.
You know, w it's a great, great,a great company to work for
everybody is, um, it's crazy tosay this, but we don't have the
(32:57):
hierarchy and different peopletrying to step on each other's
throats to try to step abovethem.
We don't want that happening.
We have a lot of people who arehungry that feel like a family.
That's trying to get it.
They will call you out on a car,but if it doesn't make sense,
but they will help you to get towhere you have to go.
You know, some of these kids orsomebody, people, um, cause
(33:20):
they're not kids, they're grownpeople.
One of them have never had a jobin the music industry.
They just are great at marketingor they're great at what they
do.
So they don't have the jadedenergy and the jaded thoughts
and the patterns that they'vepeople.
Some people, not everybody, somepeople get and working in a
major, you know, it starts to bea little cookie cutter after a
(33:42):
while.
There is no cookie cutterformula here, every different
because no one is jaded.
You know, I love it.
It must be so refreshing foryou.
It's so refreshing.
Honestly, I was telling somebodythe other day I was like, for me
to go somewhere, it would haveto be something very special for
me to leave because just theenergy and the way that the
(34:03):
people are, the way the Gazi is,the way that NEMA is, the way
that just all of our peers, thatwe're, we're a real family.
And I really enjoy.
And I'm home.
I could see my mother on theweekends.
See that's the best of bothworlds.
You know,
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Love.
If you guys have not checkedout, one of Empire's artists,
Tina, one of Tina's amazingsignings by the name of Eila.
I Y L a.
Who else are you excited aboutit that you signed at empire?
That's coming out on impact.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Oh man.
There's so many that are there,um, from Timmy to, um, uh, Naya
too.
And it's, it's crazy.
Cause we have 12, 15 and ourpeople across the world.
A lot of them, sometimes they'rejust my staff bringing them in,
you know, um, deal with world ofdance.
(34:59):
Um, the television show for the,some of the, uh, the talent they
have there.
Um, we're just, you know,honestly just trying it, all,
doing it all.
We have merged, we have a littlebit of everything, but, uh, Naya
is someone very special.
Um, did something with carnage alittle while back and it was, it
was great.
He did wonderful as well.
(35:20):
I mean, it's, it's hard to saycause we sign a lot of that kind
of a lot of acts, unlike majors,um, our 80 twenties, which are a
smaller, just a distributionsituation.
And then some of them are largerdeals, but we are great at what
we do.
Break acts is what we do, whatwe've always done.
(35:41):
Um, and even prior to havinglabel services, they did the
same thing for the Migos, forKendrick Lamar, for cards,
right.
For, you know, Kane Brown andcountry music.
Um, Oh, okay.
You know, a lot of people don'trealize that terrace Martin
started at empire with Kendrick,you know, drop started empire.
(36:04):
Wow.
Can be rock.
Like there's a lot of peoplethat started empire, but ended
up going to major thinking isbetter.
But then either they go to majorand they work, but then realize
later, like the Migos were notgetting no money or they go to,
um, a major and they get reallycold and they fall off and
(36:25):
you're like, what happened?
What happened?
You know?
Right, right.
It's, it's, it's something thatuntil artists realize that they
don't have to go to a major andthey could save that money and
be able to, for their familiesto live forever off of until
they realize that they're goingto keep doing these deals at
(36:46):
major labels.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Hmm.
Yeah.
I mean, I love what you saidwhen you first started talking
about empire and what empire isall about.
Generational wealth that we, asa people, we as black people, we
need to do what we need to do tocreate the generational wealth.
And you know, the music industrykeeps evolving and keeps
(37:11):
changing and what you guys aredoing and what you're presenting
to artists as options.
You know what I mean?
Shows like there's a millionways to skin a cat.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Yeah.
A million crazy part is, is thata lot of them do it themselves
and they get to the point wherethey have fame and then the
majors are calling and theyforget, Oh, I did this.
I don't really need them.
So they go for a check saying,Oh, well I need the major.
Let me get check.
But that check, that's going tobe the only time you get that
check they're banking on you.
(37:44):
Not knowing your worth.
You write that down.
People they're banking on it.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
That applies not just to artists.
Think about your professionaljourney.
Who's banking on you to not knowyour work.
When you're sitting therenegotiating your salary or your
position, huh?
They're banking on you to notknow your well, I am so happy
for you.
And what a gosh, what a greatway to end this episode on such
(38:15):
a high note and with thatbeautiful smile of yours, I wish
everyone could see a, Tina doesradiate sunshine.
David banner could not havesummed it up better.
So before we end my dear, yes.
I ask all my guests, this onequestion and it's called trading
places.
I love it.
So if you could trade placeswith person living
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Or deceased, who would that person be and why the
person will be the same person?
It was when I was in college, itwould be Oprah.
Okay.
And the reason why is becauseOprah has a lot of influence and
Oprah helps a lot of people.
She gives back a lot and she hasset herself and her family up to
(39:03):
be able to have thatgenerational wealth.
When Oprah passes, her familywill have what she had and she
built it with her bare hands.
She did it on her own and on herown terms.
And um, I salute that woman, youknow, and I, I love that she is
(39:23):
that powerful and still humbleand still giving back and still
why I would pick her.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
Oh, that's a beautiful thing.
Okay.
Music,
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Um, music, as in music itself, music itself,
several classical music.
I love Bach and Beethovenbecause of piano and just how
beautiful and relaxing it takes.
It makes you, um, and uh, I loveRMB.
I love hip hop, I think, um, Rand B it's.
There are a lot of artists thatI love a CV being one of the key
(40:00):
artists, um, Lionel Richie beinganother one that is dear to me,
George Benson, I'm doing the oldschool because the foundation
and the, and the artists that,uh, really laid a foundation, a
lot of people don't realize thatthey had the original versions
of records that they love today.
Um, even from, to MichaelPrince, Michael, um, even to
(40:27):
this day, I would say Beyonce isone of those, because I feel
like she is an incredibleentertainer, a beautiful person,
and never see your sweat.
You don't prove that she sweats.
Cause she's like everyone elseexactly the same way as
everybody else.
But she's so poised and hermother and father with her in
(40:50):
that, in that mind, you knowwhat I'm saying?
And she's grown it to be such abeautiful, intelligent, she's
always been well-spoken woman.
I love that.
I love even for that matter,when it comes to hip hop, you
know, we got our favorites, allmy loves.
I can't even say there's onethat I love more than the other.
Um, but for today I will say Icommend JZ.
(41:14):
Yes.
Yes.
Because he's not screaming.
I told someone the other day, Iwas like, he needs to say what
he's doing.
Cause they need to know thathe's really doing all that
stuff.
He's still amazing needs.
They need to love.
And that, but at the same timehe does, they don't because when
it happens, it happens.
I had to check myself cause Iwas like, you know what, why?
Because being out here beingallowed mouth makes no sense.
(41:36):
It does nothing, but, andshowing, getting people to
praise you, it means nothing,doing things, making changes, um
, empowering your artist thatyou work with to make, which you
don't see all the time in themusic industry when it comes to
artists and people on his level,you know, I commend him for how
(41:58):
he's doing, taking what he's hadin Marcy to what he has now, you
know?
Um, and musically, that lastalbum he put out was right on
point.
You know?
So I love that.
I love a lot of these youngerartists, Roddy, rich.
I think he's crazy.
I think we have an artist by thename of Mazi, Jack boy and Dee
smoke who are phenomenal,amazing, but the list can go on
(42:23):
last book or current book you'rereading.
I like to do audio books and Iread audio books are, listen to
audio books all the time.
And one that I have recentlybeen listening to, and I'm about
45%.
It says here literally 45% intois how Africa shaped the
Christian mind.
Okay,
Speaker 5 (42:42):
Wait, wait, I will be referencing this.
Guy's in the, uh, description.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Sure.
But who is the thigh is byThomas C Odin.
Wow.
My pastor, um, Bishop Omer at,uh, faithful central in Los
Angeles was doing a segmentabout, with all this racism
going on about, um, just theorigin of Christianity and just
(43:06):
some of the stories that wereleft out.
Cause a lot of people onlyremember it or know it from the
European perspective or theSaint Christopher ans, but
there, it started years ago,centuries ago, um, in Africa and
this talks about the beginningof it and then how it's grown
(43:30):
and North Africa not studyingthe same, how many different
dialects, how people wereseparated by language and, and
things like that and how it waschanged and how you got Sigmund
Freud and all of these.
But then you have these other,um, these other, um, important
figures that did gospel and didChristian, um, and talked about,
(43:52):
uh, didn't talk about it.
They sang about Christian lifeand Christianity and they didn't
put it.
They didn't write it down, butthen they go about it.
It's it just opened my eyes tojust where Christianity started.
I'm very spiritual.
I can't say I'm extremelyreligious.
I'm, I'm very spiritual.
(44:13):
Um, so I, I yearned for thatinformation to know, you know,
why am I praising my Lord?
Why am I, where, where is thiscoming from?
Who, how did I hurt her?
How did my grandparents get intoChristianity?
You know, why am I, um, why isit so important to me?
What made this
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Christianity?
What made it so important to theworld?
This book tells you that.
Whoa.
Okay.
I'm ordering Tina.
Thank you so much.
I love, I love, I love thisconversation and I want to
invite you back for the artistseries where you and one of your
artists can be on no need to askto talk about the discovery
(44:56):
process, what the artist isdoing.
We'll play some music.
So I would love to have you backon the show and thank you again
for being such a wonderfulguest.
Oh, you know anything for youmoney.
I love you.
So friends, this is the end ofpart, two of a conversation with
music industry veteran, TinaDavis.
(45:19):
And until we meet again, besafe,
Speaker 1 (45:31):
[inaudible].
[inaudible]
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to another edition of no needs as podcast.
My name is Amani Dunkin, and Iwill be your host on this
journey.
So today is part two of aconversation with music industry
veteran, Tina Davis.
So join me in welcoming Tinaback to no need to ask podcast.
(00:37):
Hey Tina.
Hey.
Hi.
So we left everyone with a bitof a cliffhanger.
It was right.
It was a good one too.
It was, you were talking a bitabout the beginning of managing
CRISPR out, so let's pick rightback up there.
Okay.
Well, I mean, Barry Weiss, um,it's so funny because I went in
(01:02):
to see Barry Weiss with Chris,um, well with his music and I
told him I really want, you know, you to check out this kid.
And, um, after we did theshowcase, obviously I think I
mentioned that Chris reallydidn't want to do it.
He went in there and knocked itout.
And, um, after, you know, beforewe got out of there trying to
(01:23):
get, you know, stop us fromleaving.
But Barry was the person whosigned him in that time.
Uh, Chris Lighty was working.
There are Chris Lighty right.
And Mark Pitts was workingthere.
And because I had worked withChris for so many years and Mark
and I kept saying, we gotta dosomething together.
We gotta do something together.
I asked him to put Mark Pitts onthe project, um, Mark call, you
(01:47):
know, and Mark, of course he wasthere to support all the way
through.
And he and Tesa, Tesa.
I love her to death.
She's like a sister to me.
Um, but for the most part, youknow, I was doing the grind all
by myself and I would go thepeople.
I mean, several people that havecome back to me that have come
back to me afterwards, butbegging them to please work on
this kid.
(02:07):
I know we don't have a lot ofmoney.
I were just starting a blah,blah, blah.
And it was before he signed ajob, of course, but I was like,
yo, listen, Swiss, everybody,check this kid out.
And I kept saying, he's the nextMichael Jackson?
And you know, you got usher, yougot Amaria, you got all these.
And they're like, okay.
So when we finally did our videorun it the right video, um,
(02:33):
everybody was like, Oh, and, andto just a quick story before we,
you know, went forward, I said,listen, so Chris, at this point,
he's 15, Chris wrote histreatment.
So we'd like to use histreatment for his video.
And the video back then videowas like$207,000.
(02:53):
Exactly.
Like, Oh no, you're not.
And I was like, Oh yes, we are.
You know, like, listen, we'reall too old to even say what
these kids really love.
Right.
You know who he's talking to.
He knows what his friends wouldlove.
So let's let this kid controlhis destiny.
So I talk very into it.
They allowed it to happen.
(03:13):
But the thing, the crazy thingis, is I kept saying, run it as
the single run as a singleright.
And he was like, no, we didresearch.
We did.
I paid all this money for allthis research.
And the reason was the singlethat's the wow with.
And I said, no, we should gowith running.
And he said, no.
And I said, okay.
(03:33):
So I took it and they gave it toEbro
Speaker 3 (03:40):
97.
Everyone grow at hot 97 years.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yes.
And enough, he, they bothsupported me and they started
playing it like early, early,early on.
And then Bidvine started playingit and in the Bay area.
And, uh, so obviously the restis history.
Um,
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Massive, massive.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
And Barry also told me, Hey, you know, it wasn't
just, Barry was everybody reallynervous?
Cause they had never seen Chrisdance.
Right.
They were like, you know, usherholds that, that crown, I
wouldn't, you know, it mighthurt him to dance in his video.
He's not better than us.
I said, believe me, he needs todance in this video.
And they're like, Tina, you're,you're going to ruin this kid's
(04:21):
life.
I was like, no, I'm trying totell you, he would come back.
They see the videos, like, whatthe hell are we talking about?
Exactly.
So, you know, they not to saythat he was better than not
sure.
Or, or what have you, or usherwas better than him.
It's just, they hadn't seen himin that.
Right.
So when he held his own, he heldhis own.
So, you know, I I've managed himfor a while.
(04:42):
Did a lot of it by myself, meand another assistant.
Um, her name is Nicole Dupree.
She works with me now, actually,Nicole, we worked together on
it.
Um, had a couple otherassistants and um, but they kind
of would like really kind ofhelping both of us to kind of
get it moving forward.
And the rest is history like
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Incredible.
And I don't think Tina peopleunderstand like I'm, as you're
telling me and all of thelisteners that you basically did
it yourself.
I don't think people reallyunderstand what that means.
You know, management.
I, you know what, I'm not gonna,I want you to tell people really
(05:24):
what is the day to day job?
Like what does a day in the lifeof Tina Davis?
What would that look like?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, because it's 24 seven.
No.
And that's the thing aboutmanagement is that, um, and
especially Chris, Chris is acreative genius, literally a
creative genius.
So his mind is constantlyworking.
He doesn't stay still becausehe's constantly trying to do
dance.
He's trying to play basketball.
He's trying to act, he trying todo everything.
(05:54):
So I had to occupy his time fourhours a day.
So sometimes I would take himand his friends and send them,
take him to a basketball courtand let them one for a good four
hours.
Right.
I could get in there and knockout some emails, reach out, send
tapes and musics and links andvideos, trying to get people to
believe in him and believe thathe's the next guy.
(06:17):
Um, but for the most part, itwas really just trying to hone
in and fine tune the things thathe had learned already.
And that he was great at, atdrawing.
When I met him, he was great atbasketball.
When I met him, he was great atsinging when I met him.
Um, he just needed to, I justneeded to kind of, um, you know,
(06:37):
shine up the rough edges.
Right.
You know, make sure that he knewhow to deal with different
people and make sure he hadvocal training.
Um, make sure he had mediatraining, make sure that all the
things that he needed in theartist development department
was taken care of.
So when it hit, he was ready.
So every time Chris would do aninterview, people would be
(06:57):
surprised at how aware and howsmart and how articulate he was.
But for months we studied, hestudied Sam cook.
He studied Marvin Gaye.
He studied Otis Redding.
He started studied everythingunder the sun.
He studied usher, studied Amaria.
He would go to the crumping likesessions.
And back then world of dance wasan actual event that happened,
(07:23):
um, in a auditorium or at adifferent place.
I think it was like, um, inlandempire, Chris, we would take
Chris out there and it'd behundreds of kids out there just
crumping dancing.
And he was out there learningit, learning it.
And so I was always occupyinghis time and trying to get him
(07:44):
to just suck up as muchinformation.
My biggest thing with Chris washe was so smart that I wanted
him to control his destiny, butI wanted him to make a decision
on what he wanted to do.
You know, whether it was, thisis the photo or this photo, or
should you make this comment orthis comment?
Um, so I want him to be aware ofthe music industry as well.
(08:05):
So if I wasn't managing him orif I wasn't working with him, no
one could get over on him.
You know, that was man.
I don't know if that was mywhole day.
That was just the period.
Just constantly trying to gethim to try and be the best, you
know, Jackson like left andright.
Like every time he had a seconduntil he finally got a chance to
(08:27):
meet him,
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Oh wait, how was that?
It must have been hands down thehighlight of his life.
It really, it would have been,
Speaker 2 (08:38):
It was the highlight of all of our lives.
That's exactly.
I mean, honestly it really was.
He, um, he had this tributecause you know, Mike was gone
for a while and he wasn'trecording any, he wasn't doing
shows.
So I forgot what award show itwas.
Think it was the world awardaward, um, in the UK, but they
(09:01):
will attribute to Michael andthey'd wanted someone to do, to
do thriller.
So they called Chris three daysbefore the award show.
Oh my gosh.
And asked Chris to do thriller.
And he had to learn thechoreography with the man who
originally did the choreographyor work with the choreography.
So wow.
Which we didn't realize until hedid it is that, you know, when
(09:23):
people watch it on TV, they dothe moves, but they're doing it
the opposite direction.
They're not doing it in the samedirection.
And Michael was doing it becausethey're watching it from TV.
So he learned it, but he learnedit the wrong way.
So he had to re learn that dancemove.
Cause you know, all kids knewthat the thriller, everybody
knew, right.
(09:44):
He had to learn it all himself.
So then we get out there andthere's like 30 dancers that he
had never danced with, neverperformed with.
And they were to come on thestage and just do it.
And he would, he would sing anddo what he's supposed to do and
join him.
Well, he was so nervous to meetMichael that he started singing
(10:04):
any sound great.
He sang the verse twice.
The same verse.
He just was so excited aboutseeing Michael.
So he sang the verse twice.
No one noticed cause he was justkilling it.
He was just, of course.
So then we waited for like 45minutes for Mike to come out, to
be with the kids.
And finally, when he came the,um, there was a noise ordinance.
(10:27):
So at 11 o'clock or somethinglike that, lights have to be out
in that venue, no noise.
So Mike took a little while tocome down the stairs.
So when he finally came out, hedidn't have a lot of time to
before.
So he started performing with awhole bunch of kids and Chris on
the stage.
Right.
And Chris, everybody was excitedabout Michael, but Chris,
(10:51):
instead of singing with Michael,which he was supposed to do,
right.
He ran over to him and grabbedhim and held him at his waist
and just held him for a secondand then realized, I think he,
in his head, he was like, Oh,I'm supposed to be performing.
Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, he stopped andstarted performing.
And then they shut the moviedown in the middle of Michael
(11:11):
performance.
Mike would heat it.
Oh wow.
Yes.
Respectful.
We were mad because we werelike, don't do that to Mike.
Well, Mike was supposed to meetChris afterwards.
Like that was our understandinghis manager.
She was a sweetheart.
But she was saying, yes, we willmake sure that they get a chance
to talk.
Well, so we get to the back.
(11:32):
Mike jumps strike straight inhis car with his manager and his
team.
And they're starting to head outthe door.
Now, mind you, we're sittinghere watching this go down.
But Chris had left.
He was hurt.
So he left room to change hisclothes and go get in the car.
He was all the way in his carwaiting for us upset.
Wow.
Right.
Cause he says idol, you knowexactly.
(11:55):
They're going out of the garage,out of the backstage before they
go out, they stop.
And then back up, back, back inand we're like, what the hell is
going on?
And all of a sudden you hearwhere's Chris Brown.
Where's Chris Brown.
Where's Chris.
(12:16):
So Chris ends up running outsideof the venue with all the fans
out there, chasing him all theway up to the loading dock.
So we're like I said, okay, he'scoming up back.
He got the fans behind.
Now.
Chris is fast as hell.
Wow.
He's fast.
He's strong.
And so he was rolling.
Right?
His security was nowhere nearhim.
(12:39):
He's running.
And he comes up the loading dockand gets in the car with
Michael, like barely makes it.
So he gets in the car withMichael.
His mom is standing.
I told his mom get in the carwith Michael.
You know what I mean?
Cause I'm standing outside thecar.
But the pandemonium of even Sonyexecutives, what plaques handed
(13:01):
to me?
Can you just give him this?
I'm like, so he's in there.
They're singing.
Um, he's singing Christmasrecords.
Chris's mom is in tears.
I shake his hand.
I'm like, Oh my God.
But real talk.
I felt like there was an auraaround us.
Like this bubble we were in, youknow what I mean?
(13:22):
It was like, Oh my God, youknow, Oh man, we'll go down in
history.
Now just another little add onto that with the day that Mike
was passing Chris and I believeJamie Fox were on their way up
to meet Mike because Mike hadasked for Chris to come up to
see him.
And we talked a little bit andwe were talking about and
(13:44):
hearing rumbles of him, wantingto offer Chris, pass the torch
to Chris and ask Chris to openup for him.
And we were praying.
We were like, Oh my God, Chriscircling the place.
And they say, I'm sorry, but myprojection has passed now.
I see it on the news.
So I have to tell Chris he hadto start driving.
(14:05):
Like it was hard for him to evenhandle.
Cause it was, he was literallyat the arena going to see
Michael.
Wow.
So it was pretty long, but thatwas an experience in the hat.
I don't even have the words.
I don't even have the words.
This is amazing.
(14:25):
And I love how he did it.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Not leave the venue until he met with him.
Nope.
I mean that speaks volumes.
It really does.
I mean, this is Michael Jackson.
He don't, he doesn't have to doanything.
You know what I'm saying?
And that's wow.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
I have met with a lot of words are spoken with a lot
of people.
He spoke with Brianna.
I spoke to Neo and like, whywon't he talk to me?
Well, you know, he's young andhe's like, I saw that he talked
to other artists.
Why won't even talk to me?
I said, it's coming.
Just wait a moment.
What a moment.
No one else had that moment.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
You know, Tina, you, I know because I watch managers
and especially when you'redealing with a young artist that
is skyrocketing, what do you doto kind of just disconnect
Speaker 2 (15:21):
In that time?
I didn't, honestly, my lifepretty much was centered around
trying to break Chris because Ihad no other option.
I didn't take another job.
And that money that I wasspending on trying to break
Chris, I was spending all themoney that LA Reed gave me in
that deal on breaking Chris, amI trying to have a production
(15:43):
situation with him?
I was just a manager trying toprove to everyone that I could
do it.
Right.
Um, and so as we continue, youknow, all the way, even up to
the point to where it was theDrake and Chris issue in that
club, right.
I was just taking it in and notdealing with what was going on.
(16:06):
Not dealing with the stress, notdealing with the, just all the
emotional things that werehappening at that time.
Cause every other day there wassomething different, you know,
Oh, Chris is in a club and hethrew a girl's phone.
Oh Chris.
And they're suing him.
Then Chris is in a club and he'sbreathing on somebody.
They're suing them versus on theclub.
And he just walked by and gavethem a bad look.
(16:28):
They're screwing them.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
I mean, it was ridiculous.
I mean, I was like, come on,
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I read it it's real life.
Sometimes it was just themmaking it up sometimes was
making it up sometimes.
You know what I mean?
Right.
And it was at a time wherebelieve it or not, it sounds
crazy to say this, but there wasno Instagram.
There was only Twitter and wayback then.
I mean, not, not of courseafter, as that started going,
(16:55):
but when he first, when it firsthappened, the right scenario,
you know, it was, he was, it wasin the beginning of Instagram
and, and Twitter and all thesethings.
So before when Chris hadsomething to say, he, he could,
nobody could ever hear itbecause he'd say me and then not
filter it to be what it'ssupposed to be for when Twitter
(17:17):
happened.
He would just say what he felt.
So and write the, so he hademotions that he wasn't able to
actually put into words.
So he would use valet orwhatever.
He, you know, he's still young.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Like it's frustrates me when people talk about
celebrities or musicians orwhatever.
And they don't even take intoconsideration.
You know, what age was thisperson at when this happened?
Like
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Chris started so, so young.
Yes.
Yes.
He was, he was 18 when thesituation happened with the
horrible thing happened with heand Rihanna.
Um, and so as time progressed,you know, and you gotta think
about this also, this is a kidwho had fame at 16, 15, 16, so
(18:08):
16, 16.
He didn't have to do anything.
Everybody doing his hair doing,is this doing that, doing that.
So there's are arresteddevelopment there.
You know what I mean?
It's like anybody, every artisthas a situation where they don't
have to try to learn anymore.
They don't have to try to doanything else because all
they're focused on is theircareer and with being great at
what they do, right?
(18:29):
Knowing the right words to say,when somebody attacks you and
they don't even know you, andthey're calling you, it's
telling you to die on yourTwitter.
And you're only seven, 15 yearsold or you're 17 years old or
you're 18 years old.
And they're saying you shoulddie in hell and all of that,
every tweet you don't.
How do you even respond to that?
Right.
You know what I mean?
As an 18, 17 year old kid.
(18:51):
So it was very hard to do.
So the stress level was at 1,001day after the Drake and Chris
craziness, um, Russell Simmonscalled me like, Tina, listen, we
need to resolve this.
We need to get Drake and Chrison the same page, this doesn't
need to happen.
This is bad.
I was like 100%, but Chrisdidn't do it.
(19:13):
And then, you know, supportingmy client and Russell stopped.
He say, wait, you sound likeyou're about to have a nervous
breakdown.
And I said, Russell and I wasliterally, my voice was like at
the top.
And he was like, stop, stop,stop.
You're having a nurse.
You're getting ready to have anervous breakdown.
(19:34):
You need, hold on.
I'm gonna call you right backwith, um, we said, you need to
get into meditation.
You need to start doing such andsuch.
He said, forget about Chrisright now.
We need to talk about you.
I've never heard you like thisbefore in my life, Tina.
Oh my God.
I was like, okay.
Okay.
And I could feel it.
I could feel me having a nervousbreakdown.
And I said, okay, all right.
Just tell me, tell me what, whatI need to do.
(19:56):
And he was like, I'm going tohave them call you and I'll pay
for it.
Just go to Tim, go to atranscendental meditation, take
the classes and then lessreaddress man.
Probably be best thing that everhappened to me because no matter
how much you work out, no matterhow much when you have that, I
(20:18):
was in crisis management modefrom 18 years old for the rest
of his managing career, mymanagement career of him.
And it was, it was hard becauselike I said, every other day it
was something I had to fight.
Get up at four o'clock in themorning to a phone call saying,
Hey, you know, Chris justpunched this guy, dah, dah, dah.
And I'm like, well, you know,whether it was a lie or not,
(20:39):
they're still, the calls arestill coming to me.
Right.
And I'm waking up Geragos, I'mwaking up his mother, I'm waking
up.
You know, I'm getting in thecar, driving DC, getting in the
car, getting on a plane, tryingto get to wherever Chris is at.
You know, just trying to makesure that this kid has a
support.
Richard is, um, you know, atthis time he was a kid.
So it was like, just make surehe had what he needed and that
(21:01):
he was functioning properly.
And me knowing how he was and meknowing how creative it was, he
was and how he would hold thingsin and not, not necessarily deal
with them.
He just holds her.
I'm like dealing with that.
You know what I mean?
Dealing with him being upset andnot wanting to do the things I
need him to do.
You know, that, that go alongwith social media at the time
(21:25):
and people were just learningabout it.
And people were starting to haveopinions, um, bullies behind
keyboards.
That's what I say.
Well, he's behind keyboardtrying to get him on good
morning America and all thesedifferent things and all they
want to talk about as Rihannaand him and you know, so it was
a lot.
(21:45):
Um, so like I said, Russell gaveme that transcendental
meditation, um, offer.
I took it and it literallychanged my life.
It just centered me.
It calmed me immediately.
And it allowed me to have theskin, the thick skin.
Cause I always had a thick skin.
You can't work.
Right.
But I had a thick skin to beable to take all those emotions
(22:10):
that I have from Def jam.
That was cooped up to theemotions I had in dealing with
Chris that were cooped up to theemotions of me being a woman,
trying to prove to all these menthat I could do this on my own
and give them the best.
Right.
Because the things that I havedone in my career, men have
gotten labels from men of thatand huge checks from men.
And I didn't get anything.
(22:31):
Exactly.
Well, you need to do something.
Maybe you need to break artistson your own.
Even when I broke an artist onmy own, nobody ever gave me
credit for it.
You know what I'm saying?
So yes, I do chasing a PR PRperson.
I wasn't like, Oh, I have apublicist and this is what I
did.
I've never done that.
So in me not doing that though,men took credit for the things
(22:51):
that I did.
Yes.
So it was a lot going on for me,you know?
So at that time, so through thatlifeline
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Giving me literally chills because when you, when
you stop and really think aboutit, like it's not like you
called Russell for something,Russell just felt the need to
pick up the phone and call you.
And thank God he did because youwere at your breaking point.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I was there.
I was there
Speaker 3 (23:26):
And thank God that he did not ignore the signs.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
He knew me because people who, there are people I
talk to all the time.
They're people who I don't talkto that think they know me, but
I'm a very private person.
I'm extremely private.
But part of it also is I was anANR.
We don't go out to clubs likethat.
We are in a studio where ourconversations are about music.
(23:53):
It's not about.
So even for that matter, even tothis day, I'm socially awkward,
like going out to a party.
I'm like somebody I'm like, I'mlike, okay, she knows who I am.
I don't know.
I don't.
Everyone knows you, Tina.
(24:14):
I remember the Grammy party.
Hello, Empire's Grammy party.
That was off the chain.
So yes, people know Tina Davis,but I love how humble you are
and how you stick to your corevalues.
Honestly, that's saying, asyou're talking to me, he checked
in on his strong friend.
He checked man, Amani checked onhis strong friend because no one
(24:40):
else checked in because peopledon't check in on strong.
Tina has this, you know, this iswhy I asked about the self care
because we as womentraditionally, just by default,
we don't, you know, give back toourselves normally, you know?
And that's why I constantly talkabout it.
(25:01):
I check up with people like,okay, what are you doing for
self care this week?
You know?
And they're like, Oh right.
You know, we have to retrainourselves.
Cause it's just not a naturalthing that most of us do.
And I saw, you know, one goodthing of social media.
I saw someone post, just thewords, check in on your strong
friend.
(25:21):
And it hit me hard.
It really did because we're, youknow, we're strong women, black
women.
We have so many things workingagainst us that we try to not
show weakness.
We try to take on way too muchto prove something to somebody
that probably doesn't evenmatter.
Right.
You know, all the time.
(25:44):
And a lot of us are, I mean,we're suffering.
We are dog tired, you know?
And most of the time peopledon't check on us.
Not at all, not at all.
And you know, it was crazybefore Russell, there was one
other person that says somethingto me and it came full circle
because I ended up doing TM,transcendental meditation, and I
(26:05):
was walking in and that personwas walking out.
But this person I'm droppingChris.
I told you I'd drop in Chris andhis friends off at the, at the
basketball court.
Cause I'm like, okay, go playbasketball.
Get all that energy out at thecourt.
Now at this point, you know,whenever we were to Def jam,
we'd be fly.
Have, you know, designer bootsand all this.
(26:25):
By this time I got on a sweater,I'm not to do nothing extra.
Cause I gotta go.
I got the things to do.
I dropped him off and this guystops me.
He's like, and I'm like, Hey, isDavid banner.
Oh.
And I'm like, Hey, he said, letme talk.
(26:47):
So he gets in the car and yousaid, you know, who tell you the
story about, and I'm looking athim like, what is he, what he's
like, let me tell you the storyabout this woman.
I wasn't in the studio yearsago, this woman, as soon as I
walked in, it was clouds ofsmoke, kind of guys all up.
And then n****s all up in thereis what he said and n****s all
up in there and cloud of smokeand the smoke clears a little
(27:08):
bit and they do something.
Um, they record something.
And then all of a sudden I hearthis one woman.
And as soon as I realized it wasa woman, I found out where the
one was.
I looked and it was likesunshine.
She just brightened the room.
Everybody paid attention.
When she talked, when she hadsomething to say, she was
focused.
She knew what she was talkingabout.
And everybody respected her, butshe brought so much sunshine in
(27:30):
the room.
And that was you.
And I said, Oh, thank you forshines night here.
And whatever is causing you tolook this depressed or sad or
whatever's going on.
Get rid of it because you, youdon't deserve to be in this
space.
I can see it.
It's weighing heavy on you.
At this point, tears are comingdown my face, hold all my stuff
(27:54):
in.
I don't tell anybody anything.
So to see it broke me down.
So I left there and I was like,Oh my God.
Oh my God.
You know, it went back to work.
It was like, Oh my God, Oh myGod.
I went back to work.
What am I going to tell?
(28:14):
Who's going to hear me.
You know?
So going back to Russell, whenhe had to go to Tim and I walked
in, I saw him and I just huggedhim.
I was like David banner, Davidman.
Wow.
Beautiful guy.
Right?
Wow.
Never would have thought of allthe people who would see all the
stress and hurt and emotionstied into what I was doing.
(28:36):
Just trying to do it by myself.
You know what I mean?
Trying to be taught, to prove toeverybody I'm a woman and I can
do what these men are doing.
Right.
Well, my chance, I never gotthat chance.
They never knew me.
At one point, Chris was numberone, top five on all radio
platforms with three differentrecords, all in one marketing
strategy of trying to get thingsdone and not to say, you know,
(28:58):
jive wasn't there.
Cause they were there to supportme.
Lisa, Cambridge, Sam, baby, Sam,like everybody, Larry Kahn.
Everybody was there with me andsupport me.
Um, but there was no anybodyelse behind me pulling strings
for me right there.
It is like, Hey, let me givethis a call and hook you up with
this.
I didn't get those.
(29:20):
So the only one I did have wasJimmy Ivy.
And after a while that's a goodone.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
That's a good one.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah.
Wow.
Wow.
You know, I believe people comein
Speaker 3 (29:34):
To your life at the right time.
Not a minute before and not aminute later.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
And David coming in
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Randomly last person, you would expect to see in
delivering that message.
Right.
And then Russell, just pickingup the phone calling you
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Here, could hear it in your voice,
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Tina.
I mean, I am in awe of yourstrength, but more importantly,
I am so proud that you camethrough successfully on the
other side.
Thank you.
I really am.
And what an inspiration to allthe women that are listening and
even the men, you know, youproved the naysayers wrong
(30:23):
countless times and you made aname, a huge loud name for
yourself.
And when it was time to giveback to you, you did, and here
you are still standing stillwith sunshine and it moved on to
something even bigger andbrighter.
(30:44):
So talk to us about what you'recurrently doing.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
It's empire.
I am at empire, um, I'm head ofANR and obviously it's the same,
you know, and ours and our, um,but you know, the, the thing is,
it feels like empire feelsdefinitely like Def jam.
When I first started, you know,has the it's building a
structure is building employees.
(31:10):
It's, it's um, doing what themajors are doing on a, on a
boutique level, but still beingnimble enough to be able to be
independent, but doing what themajors are doing.
So it's an hybrid between adistribution company and a major
label forever artists felt, andthey still do feel like they
(31:30):
have to go do a major deal justto be able to be successful.
Right.
They never had the optionbefore, so they're not as aware.
So when they figure out, Oh,wait a minute, empire actually
will give me everything that Ineed from a major, but I
actually own it.
I actually really truly own 50%of it.
(31:51):
I'm not doing a royalty baseddeal and paying and paying them
back 10 cents on a dollar.
I'm paying them back dollar 50cents on a dollar.
So it's a real generationalwealth type of business that
we've been running on that God'screated.
Um, so it's great because Idon't feel like I'm in a
(32:13):
situation where I'm taking theseartists, taking, taking
advantage of them.
You know, it's, the company isnamed correctly because it is
about building empires foreverybody else.
You know?
So being in that position to beable to do that and it being
small enough to be like Def jamwas at that time, like I said,
before, you do five differentthings, you can do a little bit
(32:35):
of marketing.
You could do a little, whateveryou are good at to help artist
when you can do it, you know,and you can learn.
And if you're in marketing andyou find a great talent, you can
bring, you can sign it.
You know, w it's a great, great,a great company to work for
everybody is, um, it's crazy tosay this, but we don't have the
(32:57):
hierarchy and different peopletrying to step on each other's
throats to try to step abovethem.
We don't want that happening.
We have a lot of people who arehungry that feel like a family.
That's trying to get it.
They will call you out on a car,but if it doesn't make sense,
but they will help you to get towhere you have to go.
You know, some of these kids orsomebody, people, um, cause
(33:20):
they're not kids, they're grownpeople.
One of them have never had a jobin the music industry.
They just are great at marketingor they're great at what they
do.
So they don't have the jadedenergy and the jaded thoughts
and the patterns that they'vepeople.
Some people, not everybody, somepeople get and working in a
major, you know, it starts to bea little cookie cutter after a
(33:42):
while.
There is no cookie cutterformula here, every different
because no one is jaded.
You know, I love it.
It must be so refreshing foryou.
It's so refreshing.
Honestly, I was telling somebodythe other day I was like, for me
to go somewhere, it would haveto be something very special for
me to leave because just theenergy and the way that the
(34:03):
people are, the way the Gazi is,the way that NEMA is, the way
that just all of our peers, thatwe're, we're a real family.
And I really enjoy.
And I'm home.
I could see my mother on theweekends.
See that's the best of bothworlds.
You know,
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Love.
If you guys have not checkedout, one of Empire's artists,
Tina, one of Tina's amazingsignings by the name of Eila.
I Y L a.
Who else are you excited aboutit that you signed at empire?
That's coming out on impact.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Oh man.
There's so many that are there,um, from Timmy to, um, uh, Naya
too.
And it's, it's crazy.
Cause we have 12, 15 and ourpeople across the world.
A lot of them, sometimes they'rejust my staff bringing them in,
you know, um, deal with world ofdance.
(34:59):
Um, the television show for the,some of the, uh, the talent they
have there.
Um, we're just, you know,honestly just trying it, all,
doing it all.
We have merged, we have a littlebit of everything, but, uh, Naya
is someone very special.
Um, did something with carnage alittle while back and it was, it
was great.
He did wonderful as well.
(35:20):
I mean, it's, it's hard to saycause we sign a lot of that kind
of a lot of acts, unlike majors,um, our 80 twenties, which are a
smaller, just a distributionsituation.
And then some of them are largerdeals, but we are great at what
we do.
Break acts is what we do, whatwe've always done.
(35:41):
Um, and even prior to havinglabel services, they did the
same thing for the Migos, forKendrick Lamar, for cards,
right.
For, you know, Kane Brown andcountry music.
Um, Oh, okay.
You know, a lot of people don'trealize that terrace Martin
started at empire with Kendrick,you know, drop started empire.
(36:04):
Wow.
Can be rock.
Like there's a lot of peoplethat started empire, but ended
up going to major thinking isbetter.
But then either they go to majorand they work, but then realize
later, like the Migos were notgetting no money or they go to,
um, a major and they get reallycold and they fall off and
(36:25):
you're like, what happened?
What happened?
You know?
Right, right.
It's, it's, it's something thatuntil artists realize that they
don't have to go to a major andthey could save that money and
be able to, for their familiesto live forever off of until
they realize that they're goingto keep doing these deals at
(36:46):
major labels.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Hmm.
Yeah.
I mean, I love what you saidwhen you first started talking
about empire and what empire isall about.
Generational wealth that we, asa people, we as black people, we
need to do what we need to do tocreate the generational wealth.
And you know, the music industrykeeps evolving and keeps
(37:11):
changing and what you guys aredoing and what you're presenting
to artists as options.
You know what I mean?
Shows like there's a millionways to skin a cat.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Yeah.
A million crazy part is, is thata lot of them do it themselves
and they get to the point wherethey have fame and then the
majors are calling and theyforget, Oh, I did this.
I don't really need them.
So they go for a check saying,Oh, well I need the major.
Let me get check.
But that check, that's going tobe the only time you get that
check they're banking on you.
(37:44):
Not knowing your worth.
You write that down.
People they're banking on it.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
That applies not just to artists.
Think about your professionaljourney.
Who's banking on you to not knowyour work.
When you're sitting therenegotiating your salary or your
position, huh?
They're banking on you to notknow your well, I am so happy
for you.
And what a gosh, what a greatway to end this episode on such
(38:15):
a high note and with thatbeautiful smile of yours, I wish
everyone could see a, Tina doesradiate sunshine.
David banner could not havesummed it up better.
So before we end my dear, yes.
I ask all my guests, this onequestion and it's called trading
places.
I love it.
So if you could trade placeswith person living
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Or deceased, who would that person be and why the
person will be the same person?
It was when I was in college, itwould be Oprah.
Okay.
And the reason why is becauseOprah has a lot of influence and
Oprah helps a lot of people.
She gives back a lot and she hasset herself and her family up to
(39:03):
be able to have thatgenerational wealth.
When Oprah passes, her familywill have what she had and she
built it with her bare hands.
She did it on her own and on herown terms.
And um, I salute that woman, youknow, and I, I love that she is
(39:23):
that powerful and still humbleand still giving back and still
why I would pick her.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
Oh, that's a beautiful thing.
Okay.
Music,
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Um, music, as in music itself, music itself,
several classical music.
I love Bach and Beethovenbecause of piano and just how
beautiful and relaxing it takes.
It makes you, um, and uh, I loveRMB.
I love hip hop, I think, um, Rand B it's.
There are a lot of artists thatI love a CV being one of the key
(40:00):
artists, um, Lionel Richie beinganother one that is dear to me,
George Benson, I'm doing the oldschool because the foundation
and the, and the artists that,uh, really laid a foundation, a
lot of people don't realize thatthey had the original versions
of records that they love today.
Um, even from, to MichaelPrince, Michael, um, even to
(40:27):
this day, I would say Beyonce isone of those, because I feel
like she is an incredibleentertainer, a beautiful person,
and never see your sweat.
You don't prove that she sweats.
Cause she's like everyone elseexactly the same way as
everybody else.
But she's so poised and hermother and father with her in
(40:50):
that, in that mind, you knowwhat I'm saying?
And she's grown it to be such abeautiful, intelligent, she's
always been well-spoken woman.
I love that.
I love even for that matter,when it comes to hip hop, you
know, we got our favorites, allmy loves.
I can't even say there's onethat I love more than the other.
Um, but for today I will say Icommend JZ.
(41:14):
Yes.
Yes.
Because he's not screaming.
I told someone the other day, Iwas like, he needs to say what
he's doing.
Cause they need to know thathe's really doing all that
stuff.
He's still amazing needs.
They need to love.
And that, but at the same timehe does, they don't because when
it happens, it happens.
I had to check myself cause Iwas like, you know what, why?
Because being out here beingallowed mouth makes no sense.
(41:36):
It does nothing, but, andshowing, getting people to
praise you, it means nothing,doing things, making changes, um
, empowering your artist thatyou work with to make, which you
don't see all the time in themusic industry when it comes to
artists and people on his level,you know, I commend him for how
(41:58):
he's doing, taking what he's hadin Marcy to what he has now, you
know?
Um, and musically, that lastalbum he put out was right on
point.
You know?
So I love that.
I love a lot of these youngerartists, Roddy, rich.
I think he's crazy.
I think we have an artist by thename of Mazi, Jack boy and Dee
smoke who are phenomenal,amazing, but the list can go on
(42:23):
last book or current book you'rereading.
I like to do audio books and Iread audio books are, listen to
audio books all the time.
And one that I have recentlybeen listening to, and I'm about
45%.
It says here literally 45% intois how Africa shaped the
Christian mind.
Okay,
Speaker 5 (42:42):
Wait, wait, I will be referencing this.
Guy's in the, uh, description.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Sure.
But who is the thigh is byThomas C Odin.
Wow.
My pastor, um, Bishop Omer at,uh, faithful central in Los
Angeles was doing a segmentabout, with all this racism
going on about, um, just theorigin of Christianity and just
(43:06):
some of the stories that wereleft out.
Cause a lot of people onlyremember it or know it from the
European perspective or theSaint Christopher ans, but
there, it started years ago,centuries ago, um, in Africa and
this talks about the beginningof it and then how it's grown
(43:30):
and North Africa not studyingthe same, how many different
dialects, how people wereseparated by language and, and
things like that and how it waschanged and how you got Sigmund
Freud and all of these.
But then you have these other,um, these other, um, important
figures that did gospel and didChristian, um, and talked about,
(43:52):
uh, didn't talk about it.
They sang about Christian lifeand Christianity and they didn't
put it.
They didn't write it down, butthen they go about it.
It's it just opened my eyes tojust where Christianity started.
I'm very spiritual.
I can't say I'm extremelyreligious.
I'm, I'm very spiritual.
(44:13):
Um, so I, I yearned for thatinformation to know, you know,
why am I praising my Lord?
Why am I, where, where is thiscoming from?
Who, how did I hurt her?
How did my grandparents get intoChristianity?
You know, why am I, um, why isit so important to me?
What made this
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Christianity?
What made it so important to theworld?
This book tells you that.
Whoa.
Okay.
I'm ordering Tina.
Thank you so much.
I love, I love, I love thisconversation and I want to
invite you back for the artistseries where you and one of your
artists can be on no need to askto talk about the discovery
(44:56):
process, what the artist isdoing.
We'll play some music.
So I would love to have you backon the show and thank you again
for being such a wonderfulguest.
Oh, you know anything for youmoney.
I love you.
So friends, this is the end ofpart, two of a conversation with
music industry veteran, TinaDavis.
(45:19):
And until we meet again, besafe,
Speaker 1 (45:31):
[inaudible].
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