July 6, 2020 • 33 mins
Welcome to No Need to Ask Podcast! My name is Amani Duncan and I will be your host on this journey.
I recently launched a new series for No Need to Ask entitled "CEO Talk". On this episode, I have the pleasure of speaking to one of the music industry's greats - Madeline Nelson, CEO of Heads Music.
Madeline is a seasoned music executive with years of experience, ranging from her work as manager of R&B supergroup Blackstreet to her A&R work with Michael Jackson, Marketing work for J. Cole and current management of Wyclef Jean.
After holding the role of Senior Vice President of A&R / Artist Relations across all 3 of the Major labels at Sony Music, where she served as a direct report to CEO Doug Morris, Madeline shifted back to artist management and also founded an indie label staffed entirely by Women. The experience at such a high level at Sony Music gave her a keen understanding of what products should go to market and best practices for organic entry of those products. It also fueled her determination to work towards equality for Women in the music industry.
Madeline’s business is an independent, boutique-style music company based in New York City, that focuses on services within management, brand strategy, record label, and publishing.
Madeline firmly believes in exploring new technology as a strong way forward for the music business and embraces digital streaming services as an opportunity for artists to take more control of their careers and be paid more fairly.
Learn more about Madeline Nelson at www.headsmusic.com.
If you enjoy No Need to Ask podcast, please leave a review here: apple.co/3drgU57.
Thank you and until we meet again, be safe and be well.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to another episode of no need to ask
podcast.
My name is Amani Duncan, and Iwill be your host on this
journey.
So friends, I was thinking thatmaybe I should try something
different with this interview,if it's so good.
And I love the guests that willbe joining us shortly.
(00:24):
So I didn't want to edit theinterview too much.
So I decided why not do part oneand part two.
So part one will be a part of anew series that I am doing
called CEO talk.
And it's where I bring on theshow and interview my friends,
(00:44):
colleagues, dynamic individualsthat are leaders in their
various industries.
They have risen to the very topof the corporate ladder as CEOs
at their own companies or atcompanies that they work with on
today's show.
(01:04):
I have the extreme pleasure ofinterviewing one of my dearest
friends, Madeline Nelson,
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Mountain tops, and bus stops at[inaudible].
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Katelyn Nelson is the CEO of heads music.
It is female founded and femaleled.
I remember the first time I metMadeline and it was actually at
the 2019 MTV video music awards.
We were in Newark for the firsttime, Newark New Jersey for the
(01:42):
very first time and at thePrudential center.
And so part of the livebroadcast during the creative
process, we wanted to highlightkey artists that were from New
Jersey.
So of course it wouldn't be aperfect tribute without the
multi hyphenated, amazing Grammyaward winner Wyclef.
(02:02):
So through some people I wasable to connect with Madeline
and we were able to bring thismoment to life and pretty much
the rest is history.
She's been a tremendous ally forme, a true friend and someone
that I believe everyone needs toknow.
So Madeline, welcome to no needto ask podcasts.
(02:23):
Thank you so much, Amani.
Wow.
Thank you.
I feel important.
Well, you are important andnever doubt that one.
Madeline has just, you, you havejust the most amazing career,
like not only are you atremendous mentor to so many,
especially to me.
(02:44):
Um, and I I've, I've learned somuch through our experiences
together and I'm so thankful tohave you in my life, but you
have this incredible career thatI think everyone needs to know.
So, I mean, you know, when Ilook at it, it's, you know,
starts as off as a talent Bookerfor, you know, at the Apollo,
(03:05):
you know, for Showtime at theApollo, you went on to go into
management with such big namesat literally, you know, you
shepherd in these incrediblemoments that changed the
trajectory of, of, of certainartists.
Um, you have major labelexperience at the most high
level.
(03:26):
Um, and you know, something Ifound out recently, which I was
like, girl, why didn't you tellme about this?
You know, working with DonnaKaren rewind, we need to have a
full discussion about this.
And then obviously going on tostarting, uh, the independent
label heads music.
So take us through, you know, Idon't want to start at the very
(03:49):
beginning, like Google her she'simportant.
Um, but like, I want to talkabout key moments in your
journey that, um, where, youknow, maybe something was
challenging, um, that you had towork through and hopefully
turned it into a positive andthen, you know, those beautiful
moments, those high moments that, um, really made you feel even
(04:12):
more confirmed that you were onthe right track, that the music
industry being in the businessof music was, you know, exactly
where you need it to be.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Wow.
Okay.
So I, you know what, I willstart a little bit at the
beginning.
Um, when, when I was at hisShowtime at the Apollo, um, you
know, being, being a kid inHarlem, it's making it to the
Apollo stage is kind of like thebiggest deal, right?
It's getting inside to see ashow, just like a really big
(04:47):
deal.
Um, so when I was an internthere, I was an intern in the
wardrobe department.
And the only thing cool aboutthat was like how much I loved
fashion, how, like I was alreadyas a kid, like a total slave to
fashion.
And, um, but the rest of it, Ifound out, like there was
(05:09):
nothing, there's nothingglamorous about this.
You know, we're like out pickingup clothes, you're taking
clothes back, you're getting dryclean before you take them back,
addressing people, whatever.
Um, and, and in the wardrobedepartment, one day I was
calling around on the floorlooking for like a button that I
had been chastised.
If I don't find it, my careerwas going to be ruined before it
(05:31):
started.
And, and, and I happened uponthe boot of someone, someone was
dating there and I like bumpedinto his boot almost with my
head on the floor.
And I looked up and there's thisman.
And he's like, who are you?
I didn't know from Adam neversaw him a day in my life.
(05:52):
And I stood up and I said, Oh,I'm the person that's going to
be the executive producer ofshow one day,
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Speak it into existence,
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Executive producer.
And he just laughed.
He laughed and he walked away.
He didn't say anything else tomeet and asked me my name.
Then that's day.
I was told that I was leavingthe wardrobe department.
I was going to be a PA can Ijust tell you, I thought that
man is going to be somebody'spersonal assistant.
(06:22):
I didn't know.
There was such a thing as aproduction assistant.
Um, but I was gonna be aproduction assistant and it
didn't matter to me what the PAstood for.
I was happy.
I wasn't going to be calling onthe floor and wardrobe anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Mmm.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
And I found out on my first day, that kind of, all it
really meant was like going toget donuts and coffee and things
like that.
And I remember being veryfrustrated about all of these
tasks and, and venting to mr.
Sutton about my frustration andhim saying to me, you've seen
(06:57):
the script I'm writing.
Yeah.
You see, he was like naming allof the things that were going
on, that all of the people weredoing that I was getting the
donuts and the coffee for.
And I said, yeah.
And he goes, so we want to getthe coffee and the donuts, how
would this get done?
And what happened was thatinstilled something in me about
(07:20):
the process and, and abouthierarchy, not necessarily being
all about position, but reallylike thing about understanding,
like the roles and the team andhow like each one elevate the
other.
Um, and that, that lesson openedmy mind up about what all the
(07:45):
possibilities were.
If you could like understand allthe players on the chess board,
if that makes sense.
I hope this is all making sense.
And, um, and so when I opened mymind, I knew I was going to be
so much more than a PA.
I had never thought past evenbeing the wardrobe assistant at
that time is my point.
(08:06):
I didn't think that I was goingto be a senior vice president of
anything.
I knew how badly I wanted to bein music.
That's why I was at Apollo.
Um, but I knew understood thenthat if I could think like that
person, if this person doesn'tdo this, then this person can't
do this.
And then this person, character,this, this person, or this, then
(08:27):
I could be the leader ofsomething owner of something,
whatever.
So like I never ever took mymind out of that space of, of I
could be after that.
It's like, I just have tounderstand that this is, this is
how the world works.
This is how it works.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I mean, you were literally thinking already like
an operations person.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Yeah.
But I didn't know that I didn'tknow what, what that was called.
Um, but, but, and, and I, and I,I have no problem saying this.
Um, through my therapist veryrecently will realize that's how
I was thinking all along.
Like we just started breakingdown certain things that I've
(09:09):
done across my career.
And it all kept coming back tothis lesson.
And the, and the way I didthings after that always were,
were like, based on that samelesson.
And so what happened at Showtimewas I had to work with all the
labels.
And so when I was working withall the labels, then I started
(09:30):
to understand the real masterplan.
Like you knew, started tounderstand marketing, promotion,
publicity, all that.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Cause you're talking to all these teams
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Members who have some kind of interest in getting this
artist on the show and whathappens past the show.
And you start to understand likewhat, what it means to have
certain jobs inside the labels.
So then I could, I started tofigure out what I was like, what
, what my role could be in themusic business.
(10:00):
And it was ANR.
That's what I believed at firstit was ANR.
Um, and, and so I booked blackstreet art, Showtime at the
Apollo.
I booked two ads that the headBooker had said no to.
And that was the Fujis and blackstreet.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Yeah.
Wow.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
And the Fujis they said no, because the Fujis
refused to come on.
If they couldn't play theirinstruments, if they couldn't be
a band and black street had asong called booty call, that was
their single.
Oh yeah.
And Showtime's a family show.
We couldn't have booty call onthe show, but I went to the
executive producer and I playedhim joy.
(10:44):
Not at this time.
I didn't know anybody in thefoodies and I don't anybody in
black street.
Wow.
I played in joy.
And before I let you go, and hesaid, if they'll sing those
songs, then they can come on theshow.
That was my introduction toblack street.
That is how I eventually endedup working with Jimmy Ivy and
(11:05):
how I eventually ended upmanaging block street because I
knew there was something sospecial about them that we
shouldn't pass up having them onthe show.
And so then moving into thatspace where there was like Jimmy
and there's like Teddy Riley.
And they were like, trusting myinstincts.
(11:25):
And they were like, betting me,like, no, you're wrong.
This is this thing.
Well, this is a signal.
I'll buy you a Mercedes.
And then it would be the same,get the Mercedes.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
But so that, that, that like put me like heavy,
heavy, heavy in the music space.
And so for several years, thatwas my space.
I worked with block street andit took us a couple of years to
make black streets, his secondalbum.
So I was nowhere around for thefirst one, but the first one had
done almost a million copies.
(12:03):
And one thing Jimmy Ivy wasbetting on was that the second
album, but take the first albumover a million.
And the second one, if it wasas, even as good, not better,
even as good as the first onewas going to do even more.
And he was right to the tune oflike 10 million sales.
Um, so we cut, we made the albumand we covered a Beatles song.
(12:25):
So now here's how this all in atimes.
So Michael Jackson was the ownerof the Beatles catalog.
Yes, indeed.
During this timeframe, I alsowas working with Michael Jackson
because Teddy was working withMichael Jackson and, and that
relationship was one of the mostbeautiful ones I've ever had in
(12:47):
my life.
We like, we would compare books.
We would give each other booksread and come back and like give
each other questionnaires on thebooks and things.
He'd like, he was amazing,amazing human.
So when we wanted to do a coveron that album of buy me, love,
EMI said, we could never clearit.
I mean, everybody, so we cannever coach him.
(13:08):
It's like, you can never clearit.
I said, bet me a car, like acar.
And I literally it's and it'snot, I'm not bragging to say
this, but I called Michael.
I could like get on the phoneand call Michael
Speaker 5 (13:27):
Such a boss move.
And he
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I'll tell you this, you know, any day of the week,
he'll tell the story.
And like, like, it was nothing.
He said, of course, anything forTeddy, anything.
So he cleared it.
So now we show up with a Beatlescover, but we had turned it into
a ballot.
If you remember the album,right.
We made like a slow version ofby me luck, which also by the
(13:51):
way, they didn't want to clearbecause now it wasn't, wasn't a
cover.
It was an interpolation, right?
Yeah.
But at anyway, Jimmy Ivan waslike, Holy shit, we have a
Beatles song cleared.
That's the first single manblock street.
We're like, no, it's not thefirst single is no diggity.
Jimmy was like, Nope, it's fine.
Me love that's what we're goingwith is find me love.
(14:13):
So I gave some people, a warningat the label.
And again, another story that,um, Teddy loves to tell him and
would be happy to tell.
And then I came back to thegroup and say, listen, we're
going to have to go press theserecords out.
Cause that's what we did backthen.
And ship it to radio ourselves.
They don't think this is thesingle, but this is the single
(14:36):
single.
And that is how we don't want nodiggity Single.
It was less single.
It was the thing that, thatmoment was a defining moment for
me, because I knew, like I knewrump shaker was the single for
(14:57):
in effect.
When the Teddy's then managerwas saying that's that's song is
crashed that song as garbage.
Yeah.
I knew, like I had an instinctabout music and musicians.
Um, and so it made like, made melike just really have like a
(15:21):
deep, deep, deep hunger to, topush artists, to like a winning
place, to the real winningplace.
So like, even with, with thatsong with no dignity, I know in
my entire soul, that was a song.
So I'm like, okay, I'm going todo whatever I have to do.
But then once the song comesout, there's so much more work
(15:42):
to do.
Right?
Like all the work really startsonce you like put it out there
to the world and it's like,okay, how do we make sure people
hear it?
Where do we have to go?
What, what do we have to do?
Who do we call?
We asked to play it, but do wehave to kiss?
What do we have?
Yeah.
Um, so, so that becomes the realwork.
(16:03):
And when we got into that, whenI was managing this group in my
twenties, pounding the pavementwe did in stores back then
getting on a bus and driving fordays upon days to go do in
stores and then going to tourand then going overseas and
(16:24):
coming back and going overseasagain, because it was going
number one in this country andin this country, in this
country.
Right.
When none of that feltoverwhelming to me when it still
felt exciting every day that Iwoke up, when it never, ever
felt like a task, just likesomething I love.
I was like, um, I'm in it.
(16:44):
I honestly can't imagine doinganything else.
I mean, I did eventually burnout and do something else for a
little while, but it, it didn'tever feel like work as hard and
it was hard.
And especially back then.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
So I just want to pause for one second because
you're just as always droppingsuch good information for our
listeners.
I want to just back up two stepsand talk about the discovery
process.
So you, you mentioned that youjust knew that it was
(17:22):
instinctual.
Um, was it just that, becauseyou're talking about the
untested and unproven, you know,in, in this, in black street,
went on just to be, you know, asbig as big can be.
And same with the Fujis like, isit just instinct because I know
you and I, you know, we've beenin this music business for a
(17:43):
long time and I get thisquestion all the time and I'm
not even an ANR.
I just been a part intimately, apart of the discovery process.
Um, and you know, you're waymore closer to the creative
process than I am.
Is it really that simple?
Is it really just that gutinstinct?
(18:05):
That is the draw is the decisionmaker.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
It is a money.
And I would venture to say thatmost of the most successful
folks in the business fromSylvia, Doug to those who know
it from even like a second beaton a record will tell you,
(18:31):
there's you get something inyour stomach?
Like, no, you know, when youhear it, you know, when you
don't hear it and you know, whenyou hear it, right, right.
It really is.
It's instinct.
It's instinct it's that cannotbe taught.
All, all the logistics can betaught, having, having an ear
(18:53):
like that, can't nobody canteach you an ear like that.
They can teach you all aboutmusic.
They can teach you about sound.
They can teach you aboutformula.
That's going to work.
And it does work.
And we've seen that formulas canwork for a long time, but
there's this, this thing, thisgut thing about certain songs.
(19:14):
And I know it because I've gotmore than a few that are classic
songs that are never, ever goingaway under my belt.
So I know that that's what itis.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Amazing.
Everyone, all these aspiringcreators out there take a good
listen to this.
There it cannot be taught.
It can not be taught.
No.
Wow.
So Madeline, like the story youjust told everyone is just so
incredible.
It's, it's just about so manythings.
Having focus, being strategic.
(19:48):
It reminds me of, you know, abit of my journey, starting out
as an intern and then, you know,becoming a CMO, you were the
wardrobe person crawling on thefloor, and now you're the, you
know, founder and CEO of, of amajor independent label.
So, you know, I always stress toyoung people who, you know, want
(20:12):
to go into the music industry,but I even stretch it beyond
just the music industry.
Just any industry.
There is no magic button.
There's no like light switch,you know, just like you say, the
creative process, it's it can'tbe taught.
It's instinctual either, youknow, or you just don't know.
(20:33):
Um, it really comes down toputting in the work, putting in
the 10,000 hours, always being astudent, humbling yourself.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah.
That's that, it's, it's reallytrue.
It's and you know, so for me,it's so fast forward to now I
built my business by listeningto young people.
So you spoke on always being astudent, right?
Yes.
So even after you do the workput in the time you pay your
(21:03):
dues, you still want to stay
Speaker 1 (21:07):
[inaudible]
Speaker 3 (21:08):
And you're not going to stay in the thick of it and
be successful unless you figureout how to surround yourself.
Right.
You got to surround yourselfwith people who maybe aren't the
smarter people in the room.
So it's okay.
(21:29):
Not, I got no problem, not beingthe smartest person in the room.
As long as I got some smartpeople in the room,
Speaker 1 (21:35):
You just hark, um, Madeline, what you just said
made me think of our dearfriend, dear departed friend,
Chris lady, Chris would alwayssay to me, Amani, I don't have
all the answers and I don't needto have the, all the answers.
Right.
I just simply surround myselfwith brilliant minds and
(21:57):
therefore I can never lose
Speaker 3 (21:59):
That's right.
That's right.
It's, there's nothing happeningin new technology that one of
the young people working withme, either, either that they
don't know, or they can't figureout much faster than I can
figure it out.
Like I will ask the question andthey will have the answer by the
end of the status meeting, ifnobody knew it at the beginning
of the status meeting.
(22:21):
And so that's important for itjust for your growth is to like
understand as you're, as you'removing through.
All of these, uh, positions isthat you, you never have to be
that you don't have to be thesmartest person in the room.
It is okay to humble yourself.
It is okay to be a student.
(22:42):
You're going to be a studentthat will become a teacher that
has to become a student.
Again, you don't have a choicewhere we come to students.
Again, something, some part ofthe business is going to change
and you're going to have to playcatch up, but there's going to
be somebody younger that wasinvolved in that change as it
was happening, go find them,work with them, convince them to
(23:06):
come work with you.
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Absolutely.
It's so smart.
So I want to touch on somethingthat just recently happened.
Um, you recently just joined theboard for the American
association of independentmusic.
I just it's huge.
I mean, it's huge Madeline,you're so humble.
(23:31):
Um, but it is huge.
Tell us, like, what was themotivating factor for you to put
yourself out there to, you know,be voted on and to possibly join
this board?
Like what, what does it mean
Speaker 3 (23:46):
To you being a part of this organization?
Well, so this organization, lotsof people don't understand what
they do.
You know, the biggest thing isadvocacy.
They, they advocate for, forindependent labels and
independent artists, um, forwriters and producers, that is a
(24:06):
really big deal.
Cause there's nobody out theredoing that aside from me too.
I am, they're a nonprofit,they're an org.
I don't think people realizethat.
I did not know that that'sright.
They, they aren't org.
Um, and so the, the money theytake in is what gets paid in for
membership.
And like maybe if they get agrant or something, but there's
(24:29):
not like a big moneymakingagency or anything.
So they're, they're basically,they're about advocacy.
And then the other thing that Ithought was so important, and
this is the reason I joined isbecause they're about education.
And so one, when I joined, Istarted being privy to all this
information and betterunderstanding of everything, how
(24:51):
Spotify, the inner workings ofSpotify and Amazon music and all
these other things, um, how toget your relationship going with
sound exchange, um, leastcopyright companies that I had
never heard of other Indies.
I'd never heard of, that wecould be collaborating with.
There was just so muchinformation.
I was almost overwhelmed by theinformation that I now was privy
(25:13):
to when I became a member.
Incredible.
Um, and so at first I justwanted everybody know about
them.
Like, because what I noticed wasthere weren't a lot of black
labels, not a lot of blacklabels, but what I also know is
when we hear the term indie, wethink of indie as a music genre.
(25:40):
It is not a music genre.
True.
Honestly, independent music isjust that it is independent
music.
And so I know that there needsto be a shift in thought process
even about that.
So when people think of thatorganization, they don't think
it's an organization for a blackindie label to join.
(26:02):
They don't.
So there's all these blacklabels that aren't members.
I don't know the benefits thatdon't know the information
they'd be privy to that don'tknow about how they advocate
right now.
They just one, they have beenbattling, uh, to be able to get
independent labels, uh, to beable to chart on billboard in
(26:22):
the top 100 hot, 101.
Now it's for Indies that aredistributed by a major.
So my next fight is going to be,what about the Indies that
aren't distributed through amajor like mine, but we've got
music that rightfully, could andshould be on billboards 100.
So, you know, that's next thing,but you gotta, you gotta be an
(26:47):
inside agent.
You gotta somethings have to bedone from the inside out.
Everything can't be done fromthe outside, like kicking and
screaming and fighting.
Sometimes you got to do the jobfrom the inside.
So those were the reasons I feltit was important to join.
Uh, when it came to my attentionthat I could potentially run a
(27:07):
campaign for the board.
I learned that there was noblack member on the board.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Wow.
2022
Speaker 3 (27:17):
It and 20.
Yeah.
And what I love about the CEO ofthat organization is I brought
it up and he got on the phoneand called me and had a
conversation with me about it.
Incredible and action.
How, how can you help to changethis?
Um, that meant a lot to me.
(27:38):
And so then what I, what I didwas I lit, I'm not kidding you.
I found the LinkedIn contact forevery single member of that
organization.
Everybody that is a member.
I spent night after night, afternight paying more money to get
more inbox messages.
(27:58):
And I inboxed every singlemember of him and said, hi, my
name is Madeline.
I'm a member I'm running.
This is why you should vote forme.
Incredible.
I swear to you, it was, it wasfunny.
The, some of the messages I gotback were really funny.
Like people were like, this isdefinitely gonna vote for you.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yes.
Fortune favors the bold.
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Because what I realized because I was the only
black person running.
So not only no black people onthe board, but I was the only
black person running and theboard seats go for three years,
you have it for three years.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Understood.
So
Speaker 3 (28:37):
It became very important to me to, to get the
seat.
And I'd said, I'm not going toget it.
If I don't do the work, I haveexactly the work I have to sit
here.
I have to write.
And I wasn't just copying andpasting.
I had to write a personalmessage to each person.
I had to like, say somethingabout their company.
Like I see who you are, here'swho I am.
(28:57):
Right.
This is why you should vote forme.
And it was meaningful to enoughpeople that they, they did in an
organization that had nevervoted a black person onto the
board.
And by the way, I don't know ifa black person has ever run for
the board.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
That's, you know, I just want to dig a little bit
into that.
So, you know, you said with thisamazing organization, the
awareness about what they do.
I mean, the fact that I didn'teven know they were a nonprofit.
Um, so it just feels likethey're deficient not only in
promoting themselves and gettingthe word out there, but then
(29:30):
also deficient in diversity.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Well, and, and, and that's, they're not afraid to
have that conversation again.
That's what I like about them.
Um, the CEO, his name is Richardand he, Richard Burdis is his
name.
And, and so the conversations,cause now we've had several,
he's made sure that we've hadseveral are about just that.
How, how do we bring thatdiversity?
(29:54):
And, and he has been tacklingit.
And this is what I like.
He didn't start tackling it acouple of months ago.
He's been tackling it.
He's trying, he's been askingpeople, um, he's been having
these calls, he's he hasn't hadanyone on the board, um, that,
that he can have theseconversations with, that can
(30:15):
actually like call things toaction and board meetings and
things like that.
And you know, I'm going to,without a doubt, without a
doubt.
So it's what I like about him isthat it's not new for him to, to
be trying.
And, and you're right though,it's a big part of it is his
(30:35):
marketing and promoting theorganization in a certain way.
And you don't know what youdon't know.
Right.
He knows all about me.
He doesn't have it out there.
I didn't know any of the, of theblack owned indie labels that
were out there.
I just, I had to make it mybusiness to find out who they
are.
And so that's what we have to doat, at H and M.
(30:58):
We have to go after them and wehave to explain to them, this is
the benefit of being part ofthis organization, because I'm
very lucky to have you.
They need your voice, they needyour power.
They need your direction becausethis shouldn't be this best kept
secret.
Right.
And I know with you on theboard, you will definitely
amplify.
(31:18):
We go talk about it.
So
Speaker 2 (31:28):
[inaudible] memories to say hurt my eyes.
But my T shirt says this Sandrabland was here,
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Madeline.
So your company is called headsmusic.
That's H E a D S music.
Yes.
Please tell us, how did you comeup with such a unique name?
Um, so when I started, my indiehas had, was not the name.
It was when I started workingwith like clef, uh, that we came
(32:11):
up with this name, but the nameheads, uh, because we wanted a
name that described thedefinition of sound, what
defines sound.
So H harmonics is the science ofsound, right?
(32:32):
So harmonics engineering and artdefining sound that what heads
stands
Speaker 1 (32:40):
For it actually is an acronym for something
incredible.
Yeah.
I mean, it just, the creativitypours out of you and it's just,
it's brilliant.
It's simply brilliant.
And I could not be more proud ofyou, you know, as always
Madeline, thank you for sharingand being so authentic as you
(33:01):
always are.
I'd love to hear your stories.
And every time you tell a story,I learned even more.
I'm sitting here.
Like I thought I kneweverything, but it's just like,
I always find out some newdiscovery.
So everyone thank you for tuninginto part one and be safe and be
(33:22):
well, thank you, Madeline.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
They aren't shown them bond.
Like murder was so natural.
Everybody was safe, everybody.
Welcome to another episode of no need to ask
podcast.
My name is Amani Duncan, and Iwill be your host on this
journey.
So friends, I was thinking thatmaybe I should try something
different with this interview,if it's so good.
And I love the guests that willbe joining us shortly.
(00:24):
So I didn't want to edit theinterview too much.
So I decided why not do part oneand part two.
So part one will be a part of anew series that I am doing
called CEO talk.
And it's where I bring on theshow and interview my friends,
(00:44):
colleagues, dynamic individualsthat are leaders in their
various industries.
They have risen to the very topof the corporate ladder as CEOs
at their own companies or atcompanies that they work with on
today's show.
(01:04):
I have the extreme pleasure ofinterviewing one of my dearest
friends, Madeline Nelson,
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Mountain tops, and bus stops at[inaudible].
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Katelyn Nelson is the CEO of heads music.
It is female founded and femaleled.
I remember the first time I metMadeline and it was actually at
the 2019 MTV video music awards.
We were in Newark for the firsttime, Newark New Jersey for the
(01:42):
very first time and at thePrudential center.
And so part of the livebroadcast during the creative
process, we wanted to highlightkey artists that were from New
Jersey.
So of course it wouldn't be aperfect tribute without the
multi hyphenated, amazing Grammyaward winner Wyclef.
(02:02):
So through some people I wasable to connect with Madeline
and we were able to bring thismoment to life and pretty much
the rest is history.
She's been a tremendous ally forme, a true friend and someone
that I believe everyone needs toknow.
So Madeline, welcome to no needto ask podcasts.
(02:23):
Thank you so much, Amani.
Wow.
Thank you.
I feel important.
Well, you are important andnever doubt that one.
Madeline has just, you, you havejust the most amazing career,
like not only are you atremendous mentor to so many,
especially to me.
(02:44):
Um, and I I've, I've learned somuch through our experiences
together and I'm so thankful tohave you in my life, but you
have this incredible career thatI think everyone needs to know.
So, I mean, you know, when Ilook at it, it's, you know,
starts as off as a talent Bookerfor, you know, at the Apollo,
(03:05):
you know, for Showtime at theApollo, you went on to go into
management with such big namesat literally, you know, you
shepherd in these incrediblemoments that changed the
trajectory of, of, of certainartists.
Um, you have major labelexperience at the most high
level.
(03:26):
Um, and you know, something Ifound out recently, which I was
like, girl, why didn't you tellme about this?
You know, working with DonnaKaren rewind, we need to have a
full discussion about this.
And then obviously going on tostarting, uh, the independent
label heads music.
So take us through, you know, Idon't want to start at the very
(03:49):
beginning, like Google her she'simportant.
Um, but like, I want to talkabout key moments in your
journey that, um, where, youknow, maybe something was
challenging, um, that you had towork through and hopefully
turned it into a positive andthen, you know, those beautiful
moments, those high moments that, um, really made you feel even
(04:12):
more confirmed that you were onthe right track, that the music
industry being in the businessof music was, you know, exactly
where you need it to be.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Wow.
Okay.
So I, you know what, I willstart a little bit at the
beginning.
Um, when, when I was at hisShowtime at the Apollo, um, you
know, being, being a kid inHarlem, it's making it to the
Apollo stage is kind of like thebiggest deal, right?
It's getting inside to see ashow, just like a really big
(04:47):
deal.
Um, so when I was an internthere, I was an intern in the
wardrobe department.
And the only thing cool aboutthat was like how much I loved
fashion, how, like I was alreadyas a kid, like a total slave to
fashion.
And, um, but the rest of it, Ifound out, like there was
(05:09):
nothing, there's nothingglamorous about this.
You know, we're like out pickingup clothes, you're taking
clothes back, you're getting dryclean before you take them back,
addressing people, whatever.
Um, and, and in the wardrobedepartment, one day I was
calling around on the floorlooking for like a button that I
had been chastised.
If I don't find it, my careerwas going to be ruined before it
(05:31):
started.
And, and, and I happened uponthe boot of someone, someone was
dating there and I like bumpedinto his boot almost with my
head on the floor.
And I looked up and there's thisman.
And he's like, who are you?
I didn't know from Adam neversaw him a day in my life.
(05:52):
And I stood up and I said, Oh,I'm the person that's going to
be the executive producer ofshow one day,
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Speak it into existence,
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Executive producer.
And he just laughed.
He laughed and he walked away.
He didn't say anything else tomeet and asked me my name.
Then that's day.
I was told that I was leavingthe wardrobe department.
I was going to be a PA can Ijust tell you, I thought that
man is going to be somebody'spersonal assistant.
(06:22):
I didn't know.
There was such a thing as aproduction assistant.
Um, but I was gonna be aproduction assistant and it
didn't matter to me what the PAstood for.
I was happy.
I wasn't going to be calling onthe floor and wardrobe anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Mmm.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
And I found out on my first day, that kind of, all it
really meant was like going toget donuts and coffee and things
like that.
And I remember being veryfrustrated about all of these
tasks and, and venting to mr.
Sutton about my frustration andhim saying to me, you've seen
(06:57):
the script I'm writing.
Yeah.
You see, he was like naming allof the things that were going
on, that all of the people weredoing that I was getting the
donuts and the coffee for.
And I said, yeah.
And he goes, so we want to getthe coffee and the donuts, how
would this get done?
And what happened was thatinstilled something in me about
(07:20):
the process and, and abouthierarchy, not necessarily being
all about position, but reallylike thing about understanding,
like the roles and the team andhow like each one elevate the
other.
Um, and that, that lesson openedmy mind up about what all the
(07:45):
possibilities were.
If you could like understand allthe players on the chess board,
if that makes sense.
I hope this is all making sense.
And, um, and so when I opened mymind, I knew I was going to be
so much more than a PA.
I had never thought past evenbeing the wardrobe assistant at
that time is my point.
(08:06):
I didn't think that I was goingto be a senior vice president of
anything.
I knew how badly I wanted to bein music.
That's why I was at Apollo.
Um, but I knew understood thenthat if I could think like that
person, if this person doesn'tdo this, then this person can't
do this.
And then this person, character,this, this person, or this, then
(08:27):
I could be the leader ofsomething owner of something,
whatever.
So like I never ever took mymind out of that space of, of I
could be after that.
It's like, I just have tounderstand that this is, this is
how the world works.
This is how it works.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I mean, you were literally thinking already like
an operations person.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Yeah.
But I didn't know that I didn'tknow what, what that was called.
Um, but, but, and, and I, and I,I have no problem saying this.
Um, through my therapist veryrecently will realize that's how
I was thinking all along.
Like we just started breakingdown certain things that I've
(09:09):
done across my career.
And it all kept coming back tothis lesson.
And the, and the way I didthings after that always were,
were like, based on that samelesson.
And so what happened at Showtimewas I had to work with all the
labels.
And so when I was working withall the labels, then I started
(09:30):
to understand the real masterplan.
Like you knew, started tounderstand marketing, promotion,
publicity, all that.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Cause you're talking to all these teams
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Members who have some kind of interest in getting this
artist on the show and whathappens past the show.
And you start to understand likewhat, what it means to have
certain jobs inside the labels.
So then I could, I started tofigure out what I was like, what
, what my role could be in themusic business.
(10:00):
And it was ANR.
That's what I believed at firstit was ANR.
Um, and, and so I booked blackstreet art, Showtime at the
Apollo.
I booked two ads that the headBooker had said no to.
And that was the Fujis and blackstreet.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Yeah.
Wow.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
And the Fujis they said no, because the Fujis
refused to come on.
If they couldn't play theirinstruments, if they couldn't be
a band and black street had asong called booty call, that was
their single.
Oh yeah.
And Showtime's a family show.
We couldn't have booty call onthe show, but I went to the
executive producer and I playedhim joy.
(10:44):
Not at this time.
I didn't know anybody in thefoodies and I don't anybody in
black street.
Wow.
I played in joy.
And before I let you go, and hesaid, if they'll sing those
songs, then they can come on theshow.
That was my introduction toblack street.
That is how I eventually endedup working with Jimmy Ivy and
(11:05):
how I eventually ended upmanaging block street because I
knew there was something sospecial about them that we
shouldn't pass up having them onthe show.
And so then moving into thatspace where there was like Jimmy
and there's like Teddy Riley.
And they were like, trusting myinstincts.
(11:25):
And they were like, betting me,like, no, you're wrong.
This is this thing.
Well, this is a signal.
I'll buy you a Mercedes.
And then it would be the same,get the Mercedes.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
But so that, that, that like put me like heavy,
heavy, heavy in the music space.
And so for several years, thatwas my space.
I worked with block street andit took us a couple of years to
make black streets, his secondalbum.
So I was nowhere around for thefirst one, but the first one had
done almost a million copies.
(12:03):
And one thing Jimmy Ivy wasbetting on was that the second
album, but take the first albumover a million.
And the second one, if it wasas, even as good, not better,
even as good as the first onewas going to do even more.
And he was right to the tune oflike 10 million sales.
Um, so we cut, we made the albumand we covered a Beatles song.
(12:25):
So now here's how this all in atimes.
So Michael Jackson was the ownerof the Beatles catalog.
Yes, indeed.
During this timeframe, I alsowas working with Michael Jackson
because Teddy was working withMichael Jackson and, and that
relationship was one of the mostbeautiful ones I've ever had in
(12:47):
my life.
We like, we would compare books.
We would give each other booksread and come back and like give
each other questionnaires on thebooks and things.
He'd like, he was amazing,amazing human.
So when we wanted to do a coveron that album of buy me, love,
EMI said, we could never clearit.
I mean, everybody, so we cannever coach him.
(13:08):
It's like, you can never clearit.
I said, bet me a car, like acar.
And I literally it's and it'snot, I'm not bragging to say
this, but I called Michael.
I could like get on the phoneand call Michael
Speaker 5 (13:27):
Such a boss move.
And he
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I'll tell you this, you know, any day of the week,
he'll tell the story.
And like, like, it was nothing.
He said, of course, anything forTeddy, anything.
So he cleared it.
So now we show up with a Beatlescover, but we had turned it into
a ballot.
If you remember the album,right.
We made like a slow version ofby me luck, which also by the
(13:51):
way, they didn't want to clearbecause now it wasn't, wasn't a
cover.
It was an interpolation, right?
Yeah.
But at anyway, Jimmy Ivan waslike, Holy shit, we have a
Beatles song cleared.
That's the first single manblock street.
We're like, no, it's not thefirst single is no diggity.
Jimmy was like, Nope, it's fine.
Me love that's what we're goingwith is find me love.
(14:13):
So I gave some people, a warningat the label.
And again, another story that,um, Teddy loves to tell him and
would be happy to tell.
And then I came back to thegroup and say, listen, we're
going to have to go press theserecords out.
Cause that's what we did backthen.
And ship it to radio ourselves.
They don't think this is thesingle, but this is the single
(14:36):
single.
And that is how we don't want nodiggity Single.
It was less single.
It was the thing that, thatmoment was a defining moment for
me, because I knew, like I knewrump shaker was the single for
(14:57):
in effect.
When the Teddy's then managerwas saying that's that's song is
crashed that song as garbage.
Yeah.
I knew, like I had an instinctabout music and musicians.
Um, and so it made like, made melike just really have like a
(15:21):
deep, deep, deep hunger to, topush artists, to like a winning
place, to the real winningplace.
So like, even with, with thatsong with no dignity, I know in
my entire soul, that was a song.
So I'm like, okay, I'm going todo whatever I have to do.
But then once the song comesout, there's so much more work
(15:42):
to do.
Right?
Like all the work really startsonce you like put it out there
to the world and it's like,okay, how do we make sure people
hear it?
Where do we have to go?
What, what do we have to do?
Who do we call?
We asked to play it, but do wehave to kiss?
What do we have?
Yeah.
Um, so, so that becomes the realwork.
(16:03):
And when we got into that, whenI was managing this group in my
twenties, pounding the pavementwe did in stores back then
getting on a bus and driving fordays upon days to go do in
stores and then going to tourand then going overseas and
(16:24):
coming back and going overseasagain, because it was going
number one in this country andin this country, in this
country.
Right.
When none of that feltoverwhelming to me when it still
felt exciting every day that Iwoke up, when it never, ever
felt like a task, just likesomething I love.
I was like, um, I'm in it.
(16:44):
I honestly can't imagine doinganything else.
I mean, I did eventually burnout and do something else for a
little while, but it, it didn'tever feel like work as hard and
it was hard.
And especially back then.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
So I just want to pause for one second because
you're just as always droppingsuch good information for our
listeners.
I want to just back up two stepsand talk about the discovery
process.
So you, you mentioned that youjust knew that it was
(17:22):
instinctual.
Um, was it just that, becauseyou're talking about the
untested and unproven, you know,in, in this, in black street,
went on just to be, you know, asbig as big can be.
And same with the Fujis like, isit just instinct because I know
you and I, you know, we've beenin this music business for a
(17:43):
long time and I get thisquestion all the time and I'm
not even an ANR.
I just been a part intimately, apart of the discovery process.
Um, and you know, you're waymore closer to the creative
process than I am.
Is it really that simple?
Is it really just that gutinstinct?
(18:05):
That is the draw is the decisionmaker.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
It is a money.
And I would venture to say thatmost of the most successful
folks in the business fromSylvia, Doug to those who know
it from even like a second beaton a record will tell you,
(18:31):
there's you get something inyour stomach?
Like, no, you know, when youhear it, you know, when you
don't hear it and you know, whenyou hear it, right, right.
It really is.
It's instinct.
It's instinct it's that cannotbe taught.
All, all the logistics can betaught, having, having an ear
(18:53):
like that, can't nobody canteach you an ear like that.
They can teach you all aboutmusic.
They can teach you about sound.
They can teach you aboutformula.
That's going to work.
And it does work.
And we've seen that formulas canwork for a long time, but
there's this, this thing, thisgut thing about certain songs.
(19:14):
And I know it because I've gotmore than a few that are classic
songs that are never, ever goingaway under my belt.
So I know that that's what itis.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Amazing.
Everyone, all these aspiringcreators out there take a good
listen to this.
There it cannot be taught.
It can not be taught.
No.
Wow.
So Madeline, like the story youjust told everyone is just so
incredible.
It's, it's just about so manythings.
Having focus, being strategic.
(19:48):
It reminds me of, you know, abit of my journey, starting out
as an intern and then, you know,becoming a CMO, you were the
wardrobe person crawling on thefloor, and now you're the, you
know, founder and CEO of, of amajor independent label.
So, you know, I always stress toyoung people who, you know, want
(20:12):
to go into the music industry,but I even stretch it beyond
just the music industry.
Just any industry.
There is no magic button.
There's no like light switch,you know, just like you say, the
creative process, it's it can'tbe taught.
It's instinctual either, youknow, or you just don't know.
(20:33):
Um, it really comes down toputting in the work, putting in
the 10,000 hours, always being astudent, humbling yourself.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah.
That's that, it's, it's reallytrue.
It's and you know, so for me,it's so fast forward to now I
built my business by listeningto young people.
So you spoke on always being astudent, right?
Yes.
So even after you do the workput in the time you pay your
(21:03):
dues, you still want to stay
Speaker 1 (21:07):
[inaudible]
Speaker 3 (21:08):
And you're not going to stay in the thick of it and
be successful unless you figureout how to surround yourself.
Right.
You got to surround yourselfwith people who maybe aren't the
smarter people in the room.
So it's okay.
(21:29):
Not, I got no problem, not beingthe smartest person in the room.
As long as I got some smartpeople in the room,
Speaker 1 (21:35):
You just hark, um, Madeline, what you just said
made me think of our dearfriend, dear departed friend,
Chris lady, Chris would alwayssay to me, Amani, I don't have
all the answers and I don't needto have the, all the answers.
Right.
I just simply surround myselfwith brilliant minds and
(21:57):
therefore I can never lose
Speaker 3 (21:59):
That's right.
That's right.
It's, there's nothing happeningin new technology that one of
the young people working withme, either, either that they
don't know, or they can't figureout much faster than I can
figure it out.
Like I will ask the question andthey will have the answer by the
end of the status meeting, ifnobody knew it at the beginning
of the status meeting.
(22:21):
And so that's important for itjust for your growth is to like
understand as you're, as you'removing through.
All of these, uh, positions isthat you, you never have to be
that you don't have to be thesmartest person in the room.
It is okay to humble yourself.
It is okay to be a student.
(22:42):
You're going to be a studentthat will become a teacher that
has to become a student.
Again, you don't have a choicewhere we come to students.
Again, something, some part ofthe business is going to change
and you're going to have to playcatch up, but there's going to
be somebody younger that wasinvolved in that change as it
was happening, go find them,work with them, convince them to
(23:06):
come work with you.
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Absolutely.
It's so smart.
So I want to touch on somethingthat just recently happened.
Um, you recently just joined theboard for the American
association of independentmusic.
I just it's huge.
I mean, it's huge Madeline,you're so humble.
(23:31):
Um, but it is huge.
Tell us, like, what was themotivating factor for you to put
yourself out there to, you know,be voted on and to possibly join
this board?
Like what, what does it mean
Speaker 3 (23:46):
To you being a part of this organization?
Well, so this organization, lotsof people don't understand what
they do.
You know, the biggest thing isadvocacy.
They, they advocate for, forindependent labels and
independent artists, um, forwriters and producers, that is a
(24:06):
really big deal.
Cause there's nobody out theredoing that aside from me too.
I am, they're a nonprofit,they're an org.
I don't think people realizethat.
I did not know that that'sright.
They, they aren't org.
Um, and so the, the money theytake in is what gets paid in for
membership.
And like maybe if they get agrant or something, but there's
(24:29):
not like a big moneymakingagency or anything.
So they're, they're basically,they're about advocacy.
And then the other thing that Ithought was so important, and
this is the reason I joined isbecause they're about education.
And so one, when I joined, Istarted being privy to all this
information and betterunderstanding of everything, how
(24:51):
Spotify, the inner workings ofSpotify and Amazon music and all
these other things, um, how toget your relationship going with
sound exchange, um, leastcopyright companies that I had
never heard of other Indies.
I'd never heard of, that wecould be collaborating with.
There was just so muchinformation.
I was almost overwhelmed by theinformation that I now was privy
(25:13):
to when I became a member.
Incredible.
Um, and so at first I justwanted everybody know about
them.
Like, because what I noticed wasthere weren't a lot of black
labels, not a lot of blacklabels, but what I also know is
when we hear the term indie, wethink of indie as a music genre.
(25:40):
It is not a music genre.
True.
Honestly, independent music isjust that it is independent
music.
And so I know that there needsto be a shift in thought process
even about that.
So when people think of thatorganization, they don't think
it's an organization for a blackindie label to join.
(26:02):
They don't.
So there's all these blacklabels that aren't members.
I don't know the benefits thatdon't know the information
they'd be privy to that don'tknow about how they advocate
right now.
They just one, they have beenbattling, uh, to be able to get
independent labels, uh, to beable to chart on billboard in
(26:22):
the top 100 hot, 101.
Now it's for Indies that aredistributed by a major.
So my next fight is going to be,what about the Indies that
aren't distributed through amajor like mine, but we've got
music that rightfully, could andshould be on billboards 100.
So, you know, that's next thing,but you gotta, you gotta be an
(26:47):
inside agent.
You gotta somethings have to bedone from the inside out.
Everything can't be done fromthe outside, like kicking and
screaming and fighting.
Sometimes you got to do the jobfrom the inside.
So those were the reasons I feltit was important to join.
Uh, when it came to my attentionthat I could potentially run a
(27:07):
campaign for the board.
I learned that there was noblack member on the board.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Wow.
2022
Speaker 3 (27:17):
It and 20.
Yeah.
And what I love about the CEO ofthat organization is I brought
it up and he got on the phoneand called me and had a
conversation with me about it.
Incredible and action.
How, how can you help to changethis?
Um, that meant a lot to me.
(27:38):
And so then what I, what I didwas I lit, I'm not kidding you.
I found the LinkedIn contact forevery single member of that
organization.
Everybody that is a member.
I spent night after night, afternight paying more money to get
more inbox messages.
(27:58):
And I inboxed every singlemember of him and said, hi, my
name is Madeline.
I'm a member I'm running.
This is why you should vote forme.
Incredible.
I swear to you, it was, it wasfunny.
The, some of the messages I gotback were really funny.
Like people were like, this isdefinitely gonna vote for you.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yes.
Fortune favors the bold.
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Because what I realized because I was the only
black person running.
So not only no black people onthe board, but I was the only
black person running and theboard seats go for three years,
you have it for three years.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Understood.
So
Speaker 3 (28:37):
It became very important to me to, to get the
seat.
And I'd said, I'm not going toget it.
If I don't do the work, I haveexactly the work I have to sit
here.
I have to write.
And I wasn't just copying andpasting.
I had to write a personalmessage to each person.
I had to like, say somethingabout their company.
Like I see who you are, here'swho I am.
(28:57):
Right.
This is why you should vote forme.
And it was meaningful to enoughpeople that they, they did in an
organization that had nevervoted a black person onto the
board.
And by the way, I don't know ifa black person has ever run for
the board.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
That's, you know, I just want to dig a little bit
into that.
So, you know, you said with thisamazing organization, the
awareness about what they do.
I mean, the fact that I didn'teven know they were a nonprofit.
Um, so it just feels likethey're deficient not only in
promoting themselves and gettingthe word out there, but then
(29:30):
also deficient in diversity.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Well, and, and, and that's, they're not afraid to
have that conversation again.
That's what I like about them.
Um, the CEO, his name is Richardand he, Richard Burdis is his
name.
And, and so the conversations,cause now we've had several,
he's made sure that we've hadseveral are about just that.
How, how do we bring thatdiversity?
(29:54):
And, and he has been tacklingit.
And this is what I like.
He didn't start tackling it acouple of months ago.
He's been tackling it.
He's trying, he's been askingpeople, um, he's been having
these calls, he's he hasn't hadanyone on the board, um, that,
that he can have theseconversations with, that can
(30:15):
actually like call things toaction and board meetings and
things like that.
And you know, I'm going to,without a doubt, without a
doubt.
So it's what I like about him isthat it's not new for him to, to
be trying.
And, and you're right though,it's a big part of it is his
(30:35):
marketing and promoting theorganization in a certain way.
And you don't know what youdon't know.
Right.
He knows all about me.
He doesn't have it out there.
I didn't know any of the, of theblack owned indie labels that
were out there.
I just, I had to make it mybusiness to find out who they
are.
And so that's what we have to doat, at H and M.
(30:58):
We have to go after them and wehave to explain to them, this is
the benefit of being part ofthis organization, because I'm
very lucky to have you.
They need your voice, they needyour power.
They need your direction becausethis shouldn't be this best kept
secret.
Right.
And I know with you on theboard, you will definitely
amplify.
(31:18):
We go talk about it.
So
Speaker 2 (31:28):
[inaudible] memories to say hurt my eyes.
But my T shirt says this Sandrabland was here,
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Madeline.
So your company is called headsmusic.
That's H E a D S music.
Yes.
Please tell us, how did you comeup with such a unique name?
Um, so when I started, my indiehas had, was not the name.
It was when I started workingwith like clef, uh, that we came
(32:11):
up with this name, but the nameheads, uh, because we wanted a
name that described thedefinition of sound, what
defines sound.
So H harmonics is the science ofsound, right?
(32:32):
So harmonics engineering and artdefining sound that what heads
stands
Speaker 1 (32:40):
For it actually is an acronym for something
incredible.
Yeah.
I mean, it just, the creativitypours out of you and it's just,
it's brilliant.
It's simply brilliant.
And I could not be more proud ofyou, you know, as always
Madeline, thank you for sharingand being so authentic as you
(33:01):
always are.
I'd love to hear your stories.
And every time you tell a story,I learned even more.
I'm sitting here.
Like I thought I kneweverything, but it's just like,
I always find out some newdiscovery.
So everyone thank you for tuninginto part one and be safe and be
(33:22):
well, thank you, Madeline.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
They aren't shown them bond.
Like murder was so natural.
Everybody was safe, everybody.
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