August 7, 2020 • 37 mins
Welcome to Part 2 of No Need to Ask podcast episode 9 with the amazing Lauren D. Williams of Pandora.
We had such a great conversation - Sister to Sister - that I could not put it all into one episode. In this episode, we learn more about Lauren’s professional journey working in the agency world and finding her true passion at Pandora.
I left the conversation feeling so inspired and motivated. That feeling is what I hope every listening experiences; the shared experience and storytelling brings us together.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
[inaudible].
Speaker 2 (00:15):
So how did you feel like, you know, when you started
writing?
Cause that's, that's a passionof mine.
I spent, you know, as a poly PSImajor, that's literally all you
do is write, you know, all day,every class or debate, which is
always fun.
Um, so I naturally thought Ishould be a journalist when I
was trying to figure out what todo with my life after college.
(00:38):
Um, what was that experience foryou?
Did you actually think aboutwriting for a newspaper or a
publication?
I mean, I had the opportunity todo a little writing in undergrad
for the thorough news and inundergrad too, like, you know,
like in undergrad, a lot oftimes you do a lot of tests and
finals, but my, my degree wasall about writing.
(01:01):
I mean, I had to write a thesisfor my undergrad.
I was like, wow.
So Whoa, for me, I think Iwould, I had always been a
writer.
I think when I was in highschool, I was, I did a lot of
journaling and my mom still hasthose journals and she'll like,
amazing.
She'll call me and like readthem to me and think is
hilarious.
(01:22):
Well, we need the book, thoseare the notes.
We need the book, come on.
There's a story there.
So hilarious to see where I wasin those specific times.
Cause it's just like sochildish, but it's like, it's
definitely a part of me.
And I feel like I still am likepart of that, but I think, you
know, the writing, I think itcame naturally, but also
(01:46):
probably didn't have thetechnical skills of a, of a
newspaper writer.
Okay.
So I was like, I don't thinkthat that's the journey or the
direction or the path that Ishould take.
Um, so I did, I kind of likesegwayed into PR, um, in my
(02:06):
master's degree, I likespecialize and did a lot of PR
courses because I would alwaysget dinged on like AP style book
or like all kinds of thetechnical skills that you're
supposed to have as ajournalist.
And so I was just like, okay,I'm just going to go in this PR
route out of writing for anewspaper.
Okay.
So yeah.
(02:27):
Wow.
And then, um, Starcom media vestcame to you cause I graduated
unfortunately in the depressed,during the really bad depression
in two seven Oh, Oh wow.
Yeah.
Did not get a job.
I'm sure I tried everything.
I tried, you know, internships,like everything, um, nothing
(02:47):
panned out.
And then I remember that, um,Starcom Mediavest group, which
is now part media vest.
I think that's what it is.
They, everybody has rebrandedagency at this point.
Exactly.
Um, they came to you and I, um,remember that and I applied and
(03:08):
went through the interviewprocess and got a job in
Chicago.
So I moved to Chicago as a, Iguess I was 23 and it was fun.
Like I know it was working atage in the agency.
I mean, you're dirt poor causeyou're making no money.
(03:28):
And I had far and I live bymyself.
I don't know who I thought Iwas, but it was like, there's
this article called the povertyelite and it's, and they talk
about how like you're livinglike impoverished lifestyle.
Right.
But then like you get all theselavish opportunities go to like
concerts and vendors are takingyou all these places and you
(03:51):
work crazy hours.
I mean, it's really insane.
And I did that, um, not only inChicago for almost four years,
but in New York for I guess,five years.
And it was, it was stressfulbecause you write really long
hours, like you work like nineto like sometimes 10:00 PM.
(04:12):
Um, I remember it was during thetime where laptops weren't a
thing.
So it wasn't like home.
You just had to like stay at theoffice cause you had desktop,
get everything done.
Right.
And you got to do all these coolthings.
Like I got to go to beyond andJZ, cause it balances out.
I went to see kinky boots.
Like I went and did all of thesethings.
(04:34):
Like it was amazing.
Um, and I did that for so longand it gets, I swear, there,
there is no type of work ethicthat you get, um, like how you
get at working at an agencybecause everything is so fast
paced.
It's very demanding.
Not only are you answering toyour boss because you're
(04:55):
answering to clients, youexactly multimillion type of
budgets, allocating,understanding all of these
different media channels andwhat it means, like what are
impressions, right.
Region frequency.
And like all of these thingsthat are very imperative for a
media or marketing background orworking in advertising and you
(05:15):
get to meet all of these peoplewho work at different types of
companies.
And I worked with a lot ofpeople at Pandora.
I was, every client will look atthat.
Wow.
So, I mean, at that point, youknow, I, I had been working with
people at Pandora in Chicago andthen also in New York and wow.
(05:37):
It was just coming, becomingfull circle.
Right.
And so when I was at my lastagency, universal McCann did a
lot of work with office Depotoffice max and they advertise a
lot with Pandora.
So I had a lot of interactionsthere.
And then, um, a recruiterreached out to me on LinkedIn.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
I swear LinkedIn has been my saving grace since I
really, I tell people all thetime, do not sleep on LinkedIn,
sleep on it.
Do not make sure you are up todate because you know, recently
I've been talking to a lot ofrecruiters and they were, you
know, candid, candid enough totell me that they go to LinkedIn
(06:21):
to find potential candidates.
Yes.
Yes.
It's really become a powerfultool on hundred percent,
everything that you were about.
If you have everything updated,the things that you've done,
you've published articles.
If you've written exactlyeverything is there and they get
to scan and you're like, Oh,that's the candidate I'm looking
for.
(06:41):
It's like a mini portfolio.
Correct.
So much easier to rememberthings that I had done.
And I was like, this is a lotpaper now it's just digital.
Just don't exactly.
(07:01):
Literally just take a couple ofhours.
Don't uptick.
That that is your savings.
It really is.
I'm I've taught people how toeffectively job search on
LinkedIn so that you don't feellike you're treading water, you
know?
Like you actually feel like,okay.
And, and really the skill isworking, you know, once you
(07:23):
identify the companies you wouldjust love to work with, then you
start working the companies fromthe inside out.
Yeah.
It's look for connections.
Look for people that, you know,you may be connected to maybe
second person connections.
I don't know.
And then reach out.
I didn't try to getintroductions.
(07:43):
Every job I've had in New Yorksince 2011, I have gotten
through LinkedIn.
Oh my God.
Every single one.
Wow.
Wow.
And it's just recruitersreaching out.
Yeah.
There you go.
Proof positive.
Yeah.
Proof positive.
(08:04):
Wow.
Go ahead.
Literally available forsponsorship ASAP.
What do you mean?
What do you need?
Hey, it's true.
Shameless plug is so true, butwait a minute, wait a minute.
(08:29):
I didn't know you were atuniversal McCann like Nate, like
tell me all of the agenciesyou've been with the tapestry
then.
Um, I went over to Starcom to dojust throw market.
Then I went to MV 42 in NewYork, which is the multicultural
arm of media vest or was right.
Then I went to, um, MEC, whichis now wave maker.
(08:52):
Okay.
Um, under group M then I wentback a publicist agency.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
They called me back.
So I went to Zenith then I wasat universal McCann.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
So, I mean, I love it.
I love it.
So how was, you know, how wereyour experiences as a woman of
color at all of these?
I mean the very, very wide rangeof
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Agencies, like how was your experience
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Navigating that world?
I mean the very first one withtapestry was like, Oh my God, it
was the best experience ever.
Oh, I love hearing that.
It's just so many.
It was what a multiculturalagency is supposed to be.
It's everyone who is just onerace.
(09:42):
We're just, uh, um, uh, adiverse, um, applicant pool of
just like so many differentunderrepresented groups.
I mean, we had black people,Hispanics, Asians, LGBTQ, Oh, I
love it.
We had everything under the sunand we all learned the ins and
(10:04):
outs of every underrepresentedgroup.
So that way we could do our bestjob for the client that we had.
Incredible.
I mean, that was hands down myabsolute favorite experience.
I mean, maybe it was because itwas my first as well, but I
mean, it was, it was so awesome.
(10:25):
And I mean, I have been soblessed to have so many amazing
opportunities, like experiencesacross the board at every agency
I've worked at.
Um, I've never felt any type ofway.
I was always, um, treated withthe utmost respect.
Oh, amazing.
(10:45):
Always came to me if they neededto learn or if I felt like I
needed to talk to someone, Ialways had that outlet.
I mean, there's definitely likelittle things that happened here
and there.
And I don't, I don't necessarilyknow if it would have to do with
anything about me being black ora woman.
I just think something to dowith the person I was reporting
(11:07):
into not having what they neededfrom upper management or, or
needing in that specificposition.
Talk it up to that.
And not necessarily it beingabout me.
Yes.
You all have different, like, Imean, everybody is not a good
boss, so yes.
He had some really interestingbosses on the agency side, but
(11:29):
I've had a lot of amazing peoplethat I have that have molded me
into who I am right now.
I mean, my last boss atuniversal McCann, he is so
funny.
He is probably one of thefunniest people I've ever met in
my life.
His name's Ian Rowen, but heliterally was my biggest
advocate.
Oh, I love that.
(11:51):
What literally drove me nuts atthe time, but just sit back and
let me shine every single timewhat's a leader.
What empower me to do everythingthat he knew I was capable of,
but I myself might have not haveknown at that time.
It was it.
That is really important to knowbecause it might come in a
(12:12):
package that is very differentfrom you.
And it's like six, five, he's awhite man from Jersey and this
five, six black girl from, Iknows where, but he saw
something special in me, helpedme get to where I am right now.
I would not be powerful withouthim.
(12:33):
I also would not be who I amwithout another woman named
Allison's Iraqi.
She was my boss at Zenith.
I remember us finishing mediaplans up to the minute.
Wow.
We would get in front of clientsand she would present everything
flawlessly.
Like if she knew everything thatwas in there.
(12:53):
And she probably had lookedthrough that deck, maybe once
Aaron, wow.
I learned presentation skillsfrom her hands down, like what?
I was so blown away by that.
And I just studied what she wasdoing in order to do that.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
What was her, her special sauce?
I mean, did she have aphotographic memory?
Like how, how was she able toabsorb?
I think she was just, she, she,I think she gave us
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Which specific direction on how to put a plan
together that she trusted us todo just that.
And she knew that we would notfail that we would deliver.
And so when she opened thatslide, she knew what was there
because she had providedguidance beforehand of wow.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Tremendous trait in a leader.
Yeah.
Oh, so powerful.
You know, I agree with you, noteveryone is, uh, equipped to
lead they're they're not, it'sfunny.
Everyone wants the titles, youknow, you find, I want to be
promoted.
I want to be promoted.
(14:03):
And you know, before I promoteanyone, I, I, you know, I have a
conversation with them to letthem know or well yes, to let
them know what I expect.
And you know, they're oftenshocked after the conversation
because I'm like, I tend to bean accountability manager.
(14:26):
So the buck stops with you.
I don't care if Joey and Bobbyand Sara on your team dropped
the ball.
I'm not talking to Joey, Bobbyand Sara, I'm talking to you.
Right.
So all that shows me if you cometo me with a list of excuses, is
(14:46):
that, Hey, you're not anaccountability manager and B
you're not managing your team sothat they can deliver the
results that you want.
Just like, you know, your bossthat you just mentioned, Alison,
she had this trust in you andthe team to deliver exactly what
(15:08):
she needed, which provided herthe ability to go up there and
present, and probably win a lotof new business.
So, you know, I, I've worked forsome really challenging people.
Um, and you know, a lot of timespeople will ask me, you know,
what, what is, what was it like,like what did you learn from
(15:32):
working with this person andthat person?
And the answer was reallysimple.
It was, I learned how I didn'twant to be as a manager.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Oh yeah.
I definitely have a few ofthose.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Exactly, exactly.
So as you're coming up andyou're, you know, honing and
perfecting the type of managerthat you want to be, even if
you're in a challengingsituation, you still can walk
away with a tremendous amount oflearnings in my opinion.
So true because it all can't beRosie.
I agree.
(16:07):
It can't always be perfect.
That wouldn't be life.
Exactly, exactly.
So, so true.
So now you are like, I just lovethe six degrees of separation.
There are so many like areas wecan point to that was like, you
know, it was almost like youwere fulfilling your destiny of
(16:29):
being at Pandora, you know,whether it was direct or
indirect and, um, by workingwith companies directly that,
you know, impacted or had arelationship with Pandora.
So you're currently there and,and, and, you know, I love the
past of my platform.
I think it's just so dope.
And the fact that you'rehighlighting these various women
(16:52):
to inspire and share, and itjust, it just feels so
authentic.
And because you are authenticand you have a tendency to just
bring out the best in people.
So at least with me, you did.
Um, so how did that all comeabout?
Like this platform pass the mic.
So
Speaker 2 (17:11):
It started, um, last October, um, we were trying to
plan an event for our financialservices vertical, um, which is
one of the verticals that myteam touches, what we touch all
of them, but financial servicesis a big one.
And we were trying to figure outhow we, um, have a live event
(17:33):
that highlights, um, podcastcapabilities, um, especially for
thin serve.
I mean, I think there's a lot ofdifferent financial services
companies who do a lot in thatspace.
And we were like, well, how dowe not only bring podcasts into
the forefront, but create aplatform for, um, us to showcase
(17:54):
our relationships with aspecific specific individuals or
specific, um, decision makerswithin the financial services,
um, um, industry.
And so what we did was we workedwith our podcast team internally
to determine that we wanted tohost an event with Rebecca
Minkoff and we identified, um,she was the COO of JP Morgan
(18:16):
chase, but now she's the CEO oftheir wealth management
division.
Um, the lamb cow.
And so Rebecca and Kristen weregoing to have this conversation
at this event, but then we werelike, Hmm, we wonder if Rebecca
will allow us to talk to her.
And so she was like, Oh yeah,I'll do it.
Like she was like RebeccaMinkoff.
(18:37):
And we're like, Oh, like she,she gave us the glimpse into
like, like people who arecelebrities.
And we just thought everyone wasgoing to be that easy to work
with.
She was a complete gem.
So it was originally supposed tohappen in December.
But then I think there was asnow storm or something, so we
(18:59):
can move to February.
And so we had our event then,and we were going to be
recording.
And then Jocelyn, who you hadthe opportunity to meet.
She had just maternity and she'slike a genius.
Um, and she was just like, Ifeel like this could be an
opportunity to make it bigger,like a larger platform.
And so she came up with passedthe mic.
(19:21):
She wow.
The entire initiative.
I mean, when I tell you that sheis one of the most creative
people I've ever had theopportunity to work with, I'm
like, Jocelyn, you need to putyour name on here as an
executive producer.
You need to like, see if like,I'm like, this is what you, your
titles are now all of this.
(19:44):
She is amazing.
It's amazing.
That's how the whole platformstarted.
You know, she's really thedriving force of that campaign.
I just have the luxury of comingin and we do larger plat, like
larger podcasts.
I am the host, like just likeLauren, I would love to work
with you on this.
I was like, ah, yes, this is, Imean, her perfect choice, ALO.
(20:09):
I mean, my, I had done podcastbefore where I was having a
conversation with someone likethe, whatever.
Um, but I had never interviewedsomeone.
So it again came back fullcircle because when I was in
grad school getting myjournalism degree, podcasting,
wasn't a thing.
Talk radio was a thing thingwasn't but now, but I do have
(20:31):
interview skills that are alittle they're slightly dusty.
I'm dusting.
I'm still dusting them offbecause I mean, my first podcast
interview was with RebeccaMinkoff.
I mean, that was, I was like,wow.
I was like, how is this my firstinterview?
I was so nervous.
You're just like, it's, you'rejust sitting in this room is pre
(20:54):
COVID.
So we're in the studio inPandora, all Mike up.
There's a sound engineerJocelyn's on, in, in my ear, on
the phone from California.
We had another girl Alicia inthe, in the room with us.
I mean, this was like a bigdeal.
Yeah.
It was a huge deal.
I was so nervous, but that's howit passed.
(21:14):
The mic came to be.
And I'm so thankful that I'm apart of it because it is such an
amazing platform and sodedicated to amplifying women's
voices in the audio music soundindustry, but also in the
advertising industry.
Because a lot of times we don'thave a voice like, like we're
(21:39):
there.
Um, but it's a very, those arevery male dominated industries,
especially our get to the top,like present, like, you know,
we're there, we're in managerdirector level roles, but when
you start getting up in theranks, you know, it starts to be
very male and very white.
(22:02):
We're trying to make sure thatwe're amplifying all women's
voices and it's not just, um,just one type of woman.
It's it's it runs the spectrum.
We are there to elevate eachother because if we don't uplift
each other, no one else will.
(22:22):
And so that is exactly what weaim to do and why we had you on,
I mean, we were talking aboutlike performance and like your
podcast is like through the roofright now.
Oh my God.
Really excited.
Oh, about,
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yeah.
Well, I, I love any platformthat does exactly what passed
the mic does that amplifieswomen who are out there doing
good stuff, you know, and women,you know, we tend to shy away
(22:58):
from promoting ourselves.
We it's just, I, I don't reallyknow.
I mean, I think it's justingrained in us.
Like, we'll, we'll highlighteverybody else, you know, and
promote everyone else, but we,we tend to not sing while we're
winning.
And I just really encouragepeople to women to do that.
(23:23):
You know, it's not that you'rebragging, but you did good work
and you should be proud, youknow, and it should be talked
about because if you don't doit, like if you're not your own
biggest cheerleader than who iscorrect, and we have to break
that habit, um, and start beingbold or because there are women
(23:47):
doing incredible things likeyourself, um, I'm just so happy
that you are on no Nita aspodcast.
This has been such an incredibleconversation.
And I really enjoyed getting toknow you better.
Um, because you're, you, youjust have such an incredible,
(24:07):
um, background.
And it is so similar to mine,which is why I feel like we were
kindred spirits.
Um, but before we, before weend, I just really want to get
your thoughts on the civilunrest of today.
You know, there's, there's somuch going on with companies
trying to lean in, um, you know,the youth is definitely leading
(24:33):
the way, um, like othergenerations, but I feel like
this generation of young people,I just feel like it's a little
different, you know, I just feellike they are really activated
and utilizing the tools thatjust didn't exist before, like
social media, they are, they areunapologetic about it and really
(24:58):
just looking racism anddiscrimination, um, squarely in
the eye.
And so I applaud all of thosebrave souls, um, and hopes that,
you know, which I think hasalready happened, that other
people will join the movement.
I mean, the black lives mattersmovement is the biggest civil
(25:20):
rights movement of our timeever.
Um, so that just speaks volumesof towards how change when it's
amplified and when the messageis consistent and using your
dollars, you know, either in theright way or abstaining it,
(25:44):
awareness, education is key.
So we're all being flooded withall this good information, um,
and, and, and doing the goodwork.
But with all that being said onthe company point of view, just
like I talked about on theepisode of pass the mic, you
know, I, I'm glad that you'reposting your position on black
(26:09):
lives matters all lives matters.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
Um, but I want to see what you mean.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Correct.
And, you know, especially if youare in the business of profiting
from black folk, whether it'scontent, television shows,
content, content, content, I, I,that room needs needs to be
(26:37):
diverse 100%.
And so I'm, I'm cautiouslyoptimistic.
And I using that over and overagain, I'm optimistic because of
just everything that's in ourface, you know, the fervor, the
excitement, I'm cautious becausewe've been here before and we've
(26:58):
seen how typically this movieplays out.
So that's my position on this.
Um, and I'm trying not to be acynic because there's no room
for that.
We, we all have to be on thesame page, locking arms
speaking, the same message andmore importantly, being
(27:18):
consistent and actually holdingpeople, organizations
accountable.
So what are your thoughts onthis black lives matter movement
that's prevailing right now?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah.
I, you know, I, I agree witheverything that you just said.
And when I think aboutgeneration Z, um, that cause
that's exactly who is reallydemanding change.
They're not driving change,they're demanding change.
And I think the difference withtheir generation is the gen Z,
(27:54):
um, group of individuals aremulti ethnic themselves.
They're they, they are the firstgeneration where the minority is
the majority, because a lot ofthem are not only, um, like one
race they're like biracial.
Like they were raised inhouseholds that have a different
(28:17):
type of makeup.
Then the rest of us were like,it's just a different type of
generation.
And so, and they're a lot morefluid in life.
They're not living such thingsthat are just like so rigid.
Like we're like, well, I fit inthis box and these are the four
(28:38):
walls that I live in.
Like they just are just so muchmore fluid, right.
Everything that they do.
And so now, you know, now, Imean, it's very sad.
I'm going to be honest.
It is very sad that it took fora lot of people to see a black
man dying on camera.
I'm not sure what it is aboutthis specific instance, because
(29:01):
we've like you said, we've beenhere before.
We've seen other people die oncamera too.
I'm not sure what was differentabout this instance, but I'm so
glad that we are here.
And I think a lot of it has todo with, like you talked about
social media.
It probably also has to do withthe fact that we're in a
pandemic because we have nothingelse to do.
(29:23):
We have all the time in theworld to watch the news to be
engulfed in the situationsaround us.
And now we are all forced to bein this specific moment and not
be distracted by anything else.
And so these kids are out therefor first time because we've
been talking about black livesmatter for years.
(29:44):
Right now, these kids are oldenough to go out there with
their other friends who are alsomultiethnic and they are locking
arms and demanding change.
And why it is affecting thecorporate structure is because
those very kids are kids ofpeople who sit in the boardroom.
(30:05):
So now they are forced to seetheir kids fighting for change.
And they're like, wait a minute.
I need to get on the right sideof the fence.
Absolutely.
That is why things are reallychanging at this point.
That's why, and I think it'simportant.
Like we, like, I'm all here for,you know, for us driving change,
(30:27):
but for real change toimplement, we need our allies.
Right.
And I am so thankful that theallies have showed up because
when I look at the different,um, the different marches that
are happening around thecountry, there's one that comes
down my street every Saturday.
I think I like four o'clockthey're walking down Thompson
Avenue, long Island city.
(30:49):
I mean, it's a, that's like ahighway, right?
You got police escorts.
I mean, when I look at thatgroup, it is the majority white
people.
And to see white people talkingabout that, my life as a black
person matters is so powerfulbecause a lot for the longest
they didn't and the peopleweren't listening to just us
(31:10):
right now that we have alliesthere to support us now, change,
I truly am cautiously optimisticlike you, that change will
really happen.
It's going.
One thing I need people torealize is that yes, change will
happen.
The systematic changes that needto happen are going to take
(31:31):
time.
Of course.
And we have to give people thegrace and the space to learn, to
mess up to fall on their face,but try and get back up again
and do it all over again.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Because no one is perfect.
No, no.
It's like, we didn't, we didn'tget here overnight.
(31:54):
And so it's not going to beflipping the switch for the
change.
Um, but I'm just pleased thatpeople are where they're at,
like you, that they're makingthat they're aware enough to
take action.
Yes.
So that's the first step.
Yeah.
It's the very first step.
It's so interesting, um, to beliving in this time that we are
(32:19):
living in.
But I think, like I saidearlier, everything happens for
a reason and there is a reasonwhy all of this social unrest
happened during this pandemicbecause all force have it at the
forefront of our everyday lives.
I mean, we really, everyone says
Speaker 3 (32:40):
We're in this together, but we're because of
the pandemic.
We really are swimming in thesame fishbowl.
Yes.
We really are.
Whether you want to be in it ornot guess what, welcome to the
party.
You're in it.
Yeah.
There's no escaping no escapingit.
Well, I really appreciate yourpoint of view because I just
(33:02):
always learn something fromevery conversation on this
topic.
Just a different perspective.
It just, it just make, we allneed to be doing exactly that,
asking the questions becauseeveryone will have a slightly
different perspective on it.
And, and that's where the truelearning and understanding
(33:25):
understanding is actuallyhappen.
So I lied.
I have one more question to askyou.
And it's something that Istarted asking everyone that is
a guest on the podcast.
I love that.
It's so good.
And I learned so much about the,the people on the, that I'm
interviewing from their answers.
So if you could trade placeswith one person for one day, the
(33:52):
person could be living ordeceased, who would that person
be and why
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Trade places?
Ooh, that's a hard one.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
I think I would live my grandmother's life.
Uh, my dad's father, um, becauseI've never gotten a chance to
meet my dad's parents.
They both passed wow.
Born.
And I don't really know the insand outs of the life that they
live.
Like, I I've heard stories abouthow, you know, my ancestors
(34:30):
escape the South cause somethinghappened and they had to leave
and uproot immediately.
And, you know, she had a lot ofkids and, you know, she died
when I, when my dad was infourth grade, but I've always
seen pictures of her.
And, um, my cousins and auntswill say that I remind them a
lot of her, but I didn't havethat own personal experience
(34:51):
with her.
So I think being able to liveher life and understand the
difficulties that she wentthrough and all of the things
that she experienced, I thinkwould make me a better person.
So I think I would trade spaceswith her.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Amazing.
It's so deep.
Oh, Lauren.
We could literally talk anothertwo hours.
Just, I don't know if anyonewould still be listening, but it
wouldn't even be water, you know, we would just be like, Oh,
you're still there.
Great.
Thanks for, thanks for hanging.
Um, you're just amazing and Ireally adore you.
(35:31):
You're just so amazing.
So, um, I just want to thank youagain for being a part of need
to ask podcast
Speaker 2 (35:38):
And no need to ask, come on.
You know what we do, I know whatwe do, and hopefully I can have
you back on because this hasbeen way too much fun.
I would be absolutely honored tobe a part of this podcast again.
And to have a conversation withyou.
I mean, you don't seriously, youdon't have to ask, you just have
(36:00):
to be like Lauren, allnotifications.
I love it.
It's so good.
It's just so much like there'sso many synergies, but also like
just, there is so much blackgirl magic here.
And just, I feel like I'velearned so much from you, um, in
(36:24):
all the things that you havedone and to be able to be on
this platform with you.
I mean, your name is AmaniDuncan.
You are a true boss lady who hasabsolutely look up to you.
And the fact that you asked meto do something like this is, I
am completely honored.
Oh, you so much for allowing meto be a part of your podcast.
(36:49):
Oh.
As you truly are a gem.
Oh, I adore you.
Thank you so much.
They, the feeling's mutual.
We can go on forever talkingabout our mutual love, but end.
Thank you.
Honestly.
Thank you for listening to ouramazing conversation between two
friends.
(37:10):
I will definitely link in thedescription for this podcast,
the past the Mike podcastplatform so that you guys can
listen to all of the episodeshosted by the wonderful Lauren
Williams.
So until we meet again, be safeand be well.
[inaudible].
Speaker 2 (00:15):
So how did you feel like, you know, when you started
writing?
Cause that's, that's a passionof mine.
I spent, you know, as a poly PSImajor, that's literally all you
do is write, you know, all day,every class or debate, which is
always fun.
Um, so I naturally thought Ishould be a journalist when I
was trying to figure out what todo with my life after college.
(00:38):
Um, what was that experience foryou?
Did you actually think aboutwriting for a newspaper or a
publication?
I mean, I had the opportunity todo a little writing in undergrad
for the thorough news and inundergrad too, like, you know,
like in undergrad, a lot oftimes you do a lot of tests and
finals, but my, my degree wasall about writing.
(01:01):
I mean, I had to write a thesisfor my undergrad.
I was like, wow.
So Whoa, for me, I think Iwould, I had always been a
writer.
I think when I was in highschool, I was, I did a lot of
journaling and my mom still hasthose journals and she'll like,
amazing.
She'll call me and like readthem to me and think is
hilarious.
(01:22):
Well, we need the book, thoseare the notes.
We need the book, come on.
There's a story there.
So hilarious to see where I wasin those specific times.
Cause it's just like sochildish, but it's like, it's
definitely a part of me.
And I feel like I still am likepart of that, but I think, you
know, the writing, I think itcame naturally, but also
(01:46):
probably didn't have thetechnical skills of a, of a
newspaper writer.
Okay.
So I was like, I don't thinkthat that's the journey or the
direction or the path that Ishould take.
Um, so I did, I kind of likesegwayed into PR, um, in my
(02:06):
master's degree, I likespecialize and did a lot of PR
courses because I would alwaysget dinged on like AP style book
or like all kinds of thetechnical skills that you're
supposed to have as ajournalist.
And so I was just like, okay,I'm just going to go in this PR
route out of writing for anewspaper.
Okay.
So yeah.
(02:27):
Wow.
And then, um, Starcom media vestcame to you cause I graduated
unfortunately in the depressed,during the really bad depression
in two seven Oh, Oh wow.
Yeah.
Did not get a job.
I'm sure I tried everything.
I tried, you know, internships,like everything, um, nothing
(02:47):
panned out.
And then I remember that, um,Starcom Mediavest group, which
is now part media vest.
I think that's what it is.
They, everybody has rebrandedagency at this point.
Exactly.
Um, they came to you and I, um,remember that and I applied and
(03:08):
went through the interviewprocess and got a job in
Chicago.
So I moved to Chicago as a, Iguess I was 23 and it was fun.
Like I know it was working atage in the agency.
I mean, you're dirt poor causeyou're making no money.
(03:28):
And I had far and I live bymyself.
I don't know who I thought Iwas, but it was like, there's
this article called the povertyelite and it's, and they talk
about how like you're livinglike impoverished lifestyle.
Right.
But then like you get all theselavish opportunities go to like
concerts and vendors are takingyou all these places and you
(03:51):
work crazy hours.
I mean, it's really insane.
And I did that, um, not only inChicago for almost four years,
but in New York for I guess,five years.
And it was, it was stressfulbecause you write really long
hours, like you work like nineto like sometimes 10:00 PM.
(04:12):
Um, I remember it was during thetime where laptops weren't a
thing.
So it wasn't like home.
You just had to like stay at theoffice cause you had desktop,
get everything done.
Right.
And you got to do all these coolthings.
Like I got to go to beyond andJZ, cause it balances out.
I went to see kinky boots.
Like I went and did all of thesethings.
(04:34):
Like it was amazing.
Um, and I did that for so longand it gets, I swear, there,
there is no type of work ethicthat you get, um, like how you
get at working at an agencybecause everything is so fast
paced.
It's very demanding.
Not only are you answering toyour boss because you're
(04:55):
answering to clients, youexactly multimillion type of
budgets, allocating,understanding all of these
different media channels andwhat it means, like what are
impressions, right.
Region frequency.
And like all of these thingsthat are very imperative for a
media or marketing background orworking in advertising and you
(05:15):
get to meet all of these peoplewho work at different types of
companies.
And I worked with a lot ofpeople at Pandora.
I was, every client will look atthat.
Wow.
So, I mean, at that point, youknow, I, I had been working with
people at Pandora in Chicago andthen also in New York and wow.
(05:37):
It was just coming, becomingfull circle.
Right.
And so when I was at my lastagency, universal McCann did a
lot of work with office Depotoffice max and they advertise a
lot with Pandora.
So I had a lot of interactionsthere.
And then, um, a recruiterreached out to me on LinkedIn.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
I swear LinkedIn has been my saving grace since I
really, I tell people all thetime, do not sleep on LinkedIn,
sleep on it.
Do not make sure you are up todate because you know, recently
I've been talking to a lot ofrecruiters and they were, you
know, candid, candid enough totell me that they go to LinkedIn
(06:21):
to find potential candidates.
Yes.
Yes.
It's really become a powerfultool on hundred percent,
everything that you were about.
If you have everything updated,the things that you've done,
you've published articles.
If you've written exactlyeverything is there and they get
to scan and you're like, Oh,that's the candidate I'm looking
for.
(06:41):
It's like a mini portfolio.
Correct.
So much easier to rememberthings that I had done.
And I was like, this is a lotpaper now it's just digital.
Just don't exactly.
(07:01):
Literally just take a couple ofhours.
Don't uptick.
That that is your savings.
It really is.
I'm I've taught people how toeffectively job search on
LinkedIn so that you don't feellike you're treading water, you
know?
Like you actually feel like,okay.
And, and really the skill isworking, you know, once you
(07:23):
identify the companies you wouldjust love to work with, then you
start working the companies fromthe inside out.
Yeah.
It's look for connections.
Look for people that, you know,you may be connected to maybe
second person connections.
I don't know.
And then reach out.
I didn't try to getintroductions.
(07:43):
Every job I've had in New Yorksince 2011, I have gotten
through LinkedIn.
Oh my God.
Every single one.
Wow.
Wow.
And it's just recruitersreaching out.
Yeah.
There you go.
Proof positive.
Yeah.
Proof positive.
(08:04):
Wow.
Go ahead.
Literally available forsponsorship ASAP.
What do you mean?
What do you need?
Hey, it's true.
Shameless plug is so true, butwait a minute, wait a minute.
(08:29):
I didn't know you were atuniversal McCann like Nate, like
tell me all of the agenciesyou've been with the tapestry
then.
Um, I went over to Starcom to dojust throw market.
Then I went to MV 42 in NewYork, which is the multicultural
arm of media vest or was right.
Then I went to, um, MEC, whichis now wave maker.
(08:52):
Okay.
Um, under group M then I wentback a publicist agency.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
They called me back.
So I went to Zenith then I wasat universal McCann.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
So, I mean, I love it.
I love it.
So how was, you know, how wereyour experiences as a woman of
color at all of these?
I mean the very, very wide rangeof
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Agencies, like how was your experience
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Navigating that world?
I mean the very first one withtapestry was like, Oh my God, it
was the best experience ever.
Oh, I love hearing that.
It's just so many.
It was what a multiculturalagency is supposed to be.
It's everyone who is just onerace.
(09:42):
We're just, uh, um, uh, adiverse, um, applicant pool of
just like so many differentunderrepresented groups.
I mean, we had black people,Hispanics, Asians, LGBTQ, Oh, I
love it.
We had everything under the sunand we all learned the ins and
(10:04):
outs of every underrepresentedgroup.
So that way we could do our bestjob for the client that we had.
Incredible.
I mean, that was hands down myabsolute favorite experience.
I mean, maybe it was because itwas my first as well, but I
mean, it was, it was so awesome.
(10:25):
And I mean, I have been soblessed to have so many amazing
opportunities, like experiencesacross the board at every agency
I've worked at.
Um, I've never felt any type ofway.
I was always, um, treated withthe utmost respect.
Oh, amazing.
(10:45):
Always came to me if they neededto learn or if I felt like I
needed to talk to someone, Ialways had that outlet.
I mean, there's definitely likelittle things that happened here
and there.
And I don't, I don't necessarilyknow if it would have to do with
anything about me being black ora woman.
I just think something to dowith the person I was reporting
(11:07):
into not having what they neededfrom upper management or, or
needing in that specificposition.
Talk it up to that.
And not necessarily it beingabout me.
Yes.
You all have different, like, Imean, everybody is not a good
boss, so yes.
He had some really interestingbosses on the agency side, but
(11:29):
I've had a lot of amazing peoplethat I have that have molded me
into who I am right now.
I mean, my last boss atuniversal McCann, he is so
funny.
He is probably one of thefunniest people I've ever met in
my life.
His name's Ian Rowen, but heliterally was my biggest
advocate.
Oh, I love that.
(11:51):
What literally drove me nuts atthe time, but just sit back and
let me shine every single timewhat's a leader.
What empower me to do everythingthat he knew I was capable of,
but I myself might have not haveknown at that time.
It was it.
That is really important to knowbecause it might come in a
(12:12):
package that is very differentfrom you.
And it's like six, five, he's awhite man from Jersey and this
five, six black girl from, Iknows where, but he saw
something special in me, helpedme get to where I am right now.
I would not be powerful withouthim.
(12:33):
I also would not be who I amwithout another woman named
Allison's Iraqi.
She was my boss at Zenith.
I remember us finishing mediaplans up to the minute.
Wow.
We would get in front of clientsand she would present everything
flawlessly.
Like if she knew everything thatwas in there.
(12:53):
And she probably had lookedthrough that deck, maybe once
Aaron, wow.
I learned presentation skillsfrom her hands down, like what?
I was so blown away by that.
And I just studied what she wasdoing in order to do that.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
What was her, her special sauce?
I mean, did she have aphotographic memory?
Like how, how was she able toabsorb?
I think she was just, she, she,I think she gave us
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Which specific direction on how to put a plan
together that she trusted us todo just that.
And she knew that we would notfail that we would deliver.
And so when she opened thatslide, she knew what was there
because she had providedguidance beforehand of wow.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Tremendous trait in a leader.
Yeah.
Oh, so powerful.
You know, I agree with you, noteveryone is, uh, equipped to
lead they're they're not, it'sfunny.
Everyone wants the titles, youknow, you find, I want to be
promoted.
I want to be promoted.
(14:03):
And you know, before I promoteanyone, I, I, you know, I have a
conversation with them to letthem know or well yes, to let
them know what I expect.
And you know, they're oftenshocked after the conversation
because I'm like, I tend to bean accountability manager.
(14:26):
So the buck stops with you.
I don't care if Joey and Bobbyand Sara on your team dropped
the ball.
I'm not talking to Joey, Bobbyand Sara, I'm talking to you.
Right.
So all that shows me if you cometo me with a list of excuses, is
(14:46):
that, Hey, you're not anaccountability manager and B
you're not managing your team sothat they can deliver the
results that you want.
Just like, you know, your bossthat you just mentioned, Alison,
she had this trust in you andthe team to deliver exactly what
(15:08):
she needed, which provided herthe ability to go up there and
present, and probably win a lotof new business.
So, you know, I, I've worked forsome really challenging people.
Um, and you know, a lot of timespeople will ask me, you know,
what, what is, what was it like,like what did you learn from
(15:32):
working with this person andthat person?
And the answer was reallysimple.
It was, I learned how I didn'twant to be as a manager.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Oh yeah.
I definitely have a few ofthose.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Exactly, exactly.
So as you're coming up andyou're, you know, honing and
perfecting the type of managerthat you want to be, even if
you're in a challengingsituation, you still can walk
away with a tremendous amount oflearnings in my opinion.
So true because it all can't beRosie.
I agree.
(16:07):
It can't always be perfect.
That wouldn't be life.
Exactly, exactly.
So, so true.
So now you are like, I just lovethe six degrees of separation.
There are so many like areas wecan point to that was like, you
know, it was almost like youwere fulfilling your destiny of
(16:29):
being at Pandora, you know,whether it was direct or
indirect and, um, by workingwith companies directly that,
you know, impacted or had arelationship with Pandora.
So you're currently there and,and, and, you know, I love the
past of my platform.
I think it's just so dope.
And the fact that you'rehighlighting these various women
(16:52):
to inspire and share, and itjust, it just feels so
authentic.
And because you are authenticand you have a tendency to just
bring out the best in people.
So at least with me, you did.
Um, so how did that all comeabout?
Like this platform pass the mic.
So
Speaker 2 (17:11):
It started, um, last October, um, we were trying to
plan an event for our financialservices vertical, um, which is
one of the verticals that myteam touches, what we touch all
of them, but financial servicesis a big one.
And we were trying to figure outhow we, um, have a live event
(17:33):
that highlights, um, podcastcapabilities, um, especially for
thin serve.
I mean, I think there's a lot ofdifferent financial services
companies who do a lot in thatspace.
And we were like, well, how dowe not only bring podcasts into
the forefront, but create aplatform for, um, us to showcase
(17:54):
our relationships with aspecific specific individuals or
specific, um, decision makerswithin the financial services,
um, um, industry.
And so what we did was we workedwith our podcast team internally
to determine that we wanted tohost an event with Rebecca
Minkoff and we identified, um,she was the COO of JP Morgan
(18:16):
chase, but now she's the CEO oftheir wealth management
division.
Um, the lamb cow.
And so Rebecca and Kristen weregoing to have this conversation
at this event, but then we werelike, Hmm, we wonder if Rebecca
will allow us to talk to her.
And so she was like, Oh yeah,I'll do it.
Like she was like RebeccaMinkoff.
(18:37):
And we're like, Oh, like she,she gave us the glimpse into
like, like people who arecelebrities.
And we just thought everyone wasgoing to be that easy to work
with.
She was a complete gem.
So it was originally supposed tohappen in December.
But then I think there was asnow storm or something, so we
(18:59):
can move to February.
And so we had our event then,and we were going to be
recording.
And then Jocelyn, who you hadthe opportunity to meet.
She had just maternity and she'slike a genius.
Um, and she was just like, Ifeel like this could be an
opportunity to make it bigger,like a larger platform.
And so she came up with passedthe mic.
(19:21):
She wow.
The entire initiative.
I mean, when I tell you that sheis one of the most creative
people I've ever had theopportunity to work with, I'm
like, Jocelyn, you need to putyour name on here as an
executive producer.
You need to like, see if like,I'm like, this is what you, your
titles are now all of this.
(19:44):
She is amazing.
It's amazing.
That's how the whole platformstarted.
You know, she's really thedriving force of that campaign.
I just have the luxury of comingin and we do larger plat, like
larger podcasts.
I am the host, like just likeLauren, I would love to work
with you on this.
I was like, ah, yes, this is, Imean, her perfect choice, ALO.
(20:09):
I mean, my, I had done podcastbefore where I was having a
conversation with someone likethe, whatever.
Um, but I had never interviewedsomeone.
So it again came back fullcircle because when I was in
grad school getting myjournalism degree, podcasting,
wasn't a thing.
Talk radio was a thing thingwasn't but now, but I do have
(20:31):
interview skills that are alittle they're slightly dusty.
I'm dusting.
I'm still dusting them offbecause I mean, my first podcast
interview was with RebeccaMinkoff.
I mean, that was, I was like,wow.
I was like, how is this my firstinterview?
I was so nervous.
You're just like, it's, you'rejust sitting in this room is pre
(20:54):
COVID.
So we're in the studio inPandora, all Mike up.
There's a sound engineerJocelyn's on, in, in my ear, on
the phone from California.
We had another girl Alicia inthe, in the room with us.
I mean, this was like a bigdeal.
Yeah.
It was a huge deal.
I was so nervous, but that's howit passed.
(21:14):
The mic came to be.
And I'm so thankful that I'm apart of it because it is such an
amazing platform and sodedicated to amplifying women's
voices in the audio music soundindustry, but also in the
advertising industry.
Because a lot of times we don'thave a voice like, like we're
(21:39):
there.
Um, but it's a very, those arevery male dominated industries,
especially our get to the top,like present, like, you know,
we're there, we're in managerdirector level roles, but when
you start getting up in theranks, you know, it starts to be
very male and very white.
(22:02):
We're trying to make sure thatwe're amplifying all women's
voices and it's not just, um,just one type of woman.
It's it's it runs the spectrum.
We are there to elevate eachother because if we don't uplift
each other, no one else will.
(22:22):
And so that is exactly what weaim to do and why we had you on,
I mean, we were talking aboutlike performance and like your
podcast is like through the roofright now.
Oh my God.
Really excited.
Oh, about,
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yeah.
Well, I, I love any platformthat does exactly what passed
the mic does that amplifieswomen who are out there doing
good stuff, you know, and women,you know, we tend to shy away
(22:58):
from promoting ourselves.
We it's just, I, I don't reallyknow.
I mean, I think it's justingrained in us.
Like, we'll, we'll highlighteverybody else, you know, and
promote everyone else, but we,we tend to not sing while we're
winning.
And I just really encouragepeople to women to do that.
(23:23):
You know, it's not that you'rebragging, but you did good work
and you should be proud, youknow, and it should be talked
about because if you don't doit, like if you're not your own
biggest cheerleader than who iscorrect, and we have to break
that habit, um, and start beingbold or because there are women
(23:47):
doing incredible things likeyourself, um, I'm just so happy
that you are on no Nita aspodcast.
This has been such an incredibleconversation.
And I really enjoyed getting toknow you better.
Um, because you're, you, youjust have such an incredible,
(24:07):
um, background.
And it is so similar to mine,which is why I feel like we were
kindred spirits.
Um, but before we, before weend, I just really want to get
your thoughts on the civilunrest of today.
You know, there's, there's somuch going on with companies
trying to lean in, um, you know,the youth is definitely leading
(24:33):
the way, um, like othergenerations, but I feel like
this generation of young people,I just feel like it's a little
different, you know, I just feellike they are really activated
and utilizing the tools thatjust didn't exist before, like
social media, they are, they areunapologetic about it and really
(24:58):
just looking racism anddiscrimination, um, squarely in
the eye.
And so I applaud all of thosebrave souls, um, and hopes that,
you know, which I think hasalready happened, that other
people will join the movement.
I mean, the black lives mattersmovement is the biggest civil
(25:20):
rights movement of our timeever.
Um, so that just speaks volumesof towards how change when it's
amplified and when the messageis consistent and using your
dollars, you know, either in theright way or abstaining it,
(25:44):
awareness, education is key.
So we're all being flooded withall this good information, um,
and, and, and doing the goodwork.
But with all that being said onthe company point of view, just
like I talked about on theepisode of pass the mic, you
know, I, I'm glad that you'reposting your position on black
(26:09):
lives matters all lives matters.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
Um, but I want to see what you mean.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Correct.
And, you know, especially if youare in the business of profiting
from black folk, whether it'scontent, television shows,
content, content, content, I, I,that room needs needs to be
(26:37):
diverse 100%.
And so I'm, I'm cautiouslyoptimistic.
And I using that over and overagain, I'm optimistic because of
just everything that's in ourface, you know, the fervor, the
excitement, I'm cautious becausewe've been here before and we've
(26:58):
seen how typically this movieplays out.
So that's my position on this.
Um, and I'm trying not to be acynic because there's no room
for that.
We, we all have to be on thesame page, locking arms
speaking, the same message andmore importantly, being
(27:18):
consistent and actually holdingpeople, organizations
accountable.
So what are your thoughts onthis black lives matter movement
that's prevailing right now?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah.
I, you know, I, I agree witheverything that you just said.
And when I think aboutgeneration Z, um, that cause
that's exactly who is reallydemanding change.
They're not driving change,they're demanding change.
And I think the difference withtheir generation is the gen Z,
(27:54):
um, group of individuals aremulti ethnic themselves.
They're they, they are the firstgeneration where the minority is
the majority, because a lot ofthem are not only, um, like one
race they're like biracial.
Like they were raised inhouseholds that have a different
(28:17):
type of makeup.
Then the rest of us were like,it's just a different type of
generation.
And so, and they're a lot morefluid in life.
They're not living such thingsthat are just like so rigid.
Like we're like, well, I fit inthis box and these are the four
(28:38):
walls that I live in.
Like they just are just so muchmore fluid, right.
Everything that they do.
And so now, you know, now, Imean, it's very sad.
I'm going to be honest.
It is very sad that it took fora lot of people to see a black
man dying on camera.
I'm not sure what it is aboutthis specific instance, because
(29:01):
we've like you said, we've beenhere before.
We've seen other people die oncamera too.
I'm not sure what was differentabout this instance, but I'm so
glad that we are here.
And I think a lot of it has todo with, like you talked about
social media.
It probably also has to do withthe fact that we're in a
pandemic because we have nothingelse to do.
(29:23):
We have all the time in theworld to watch the news to be
engulfed in the situationsaround us.
And now we are all forced to bein this specific moment and not
be distracted by anything else.
And so these kids are out therefor first time because we've
been talking about black livesmatter for years.
(29:44):
Right now, these kids are oldenough to go out there with
their other friends who are alsomultiethnic and they are locking
arms and demanding change.
And why it is affecting thecorporate structure is because
those very kids are kids ofpeople who sit in the boardroom.
(30:05):
So now they are forced to seetheir kids fighting for change.
And they're like, wait a minute.
I need to get on the right sideof the fence.
Absolutely.
That is why things are reallychanging at this point.
That's why, and I think it'simportant.
Like we, like, I'm all here for,you know, for us driving change,
(30:27):
but for real change toimplement, we need our allies.
Right.
And I am so thankful that theallies have showed up because
when I look at the different,um, the different marches that
are happening around thecountry, there's one that comes
down my street every Saturday.
I think I like four o'clockthey're walking down Thompson
Avenue, long Island city.
(30:49):
I mean, it's a, that's like ahighway, right?
You got police escorts.
I mean, when I look at thatgroup, it is the majority white
people.
And to see white people talkingabout that, my life as a black
person matters is so powerfulbecause a lot for the longest
they didn't and the peopleweren't listening to just us
(31:10):
right now that we have alliesthere to support us now, change,
I truly am cautiously optimisticlike you, that change will
really happen.
It's going.
One thing I need people torealize is that yes, change will
happen.
The systematic changes that needto happen are going to take
(31:31):
time.
Of course.
And we have to give people thegrace and the space to learn, to
mess up to fall on their face,but try and get back up again
and do it all over again.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Because no one is perfect.
No, no.
It's like, we didn't, we didn'tget here overnight.
(31:54):
And so it's not going to beflipping the switch for the
change.
Um, but I'm just pleased thatpeople are where they're at,
like you, that they're makingthat they're aware enough to
take action.
Yes.
So that's the first step.
Yeah.
It's the very first step.
It's so interesting, um, to beliving in this time that we are
(32:19):
living in.
But I think, like I saidearlier, everything happens for
a reason and there is a reasonwhy all of this social unrest
happened during this pandemicbecause all force have it at the
forefront of our everyday lives.
I mean, we really, everyone says
Speaker 3 (32:40):
We're in this together, but we're because of
the pandemic.
We really are swimming in thesame fishbowl.
Yes.
We really are.
Whether you want to be in it ornot guess what, welcome to the
party.
You're in it.
Yeah.
There's no escaping no escapingit.
Well, I really appreciate yourpoint of view because I just
(33:02):
always learn something fromevery conversation on this
topic.
Just a different perspective.
It just, it just make, we allneed to be doing exactly that,
asking the questions becauseeveryone will have a slightly
different perspective on it.
And, and that's where the truelearning and understanding
(33:25):
understanding is actuallyhappen.
So I lied.
I have one more question to askyou.
And it's something that Istarted asking everyone that is
a guest on the podcast.
I love that.
It's so good.
And I learned so much about the,the people on the, that I'm
interviewing from their answers.
So if you could trade placeswith one person for one day, the
(33:52):
person could be living ordeceased, who would that person
be and why
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Trade places?
Ooh, that's a hard one.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
I think I would live my grandmother's life.
Uh, my dad's father, um, becauseI've never gotten a chance to
meet my dad's parents.
They both passed wow.
Born.
And I don't really know the insand outs of the life that they
live.
Like, I I've heard stories abouthow, you know, my ancestors
(34:30):
escape the South cause somethinghappened and they had to leave
and uproot immediately.
And, you know, she had a lot ofkids and, you know, she died
when I, when my dad was infourth grade, but I've always
seen pictures of her.
And, um, my cousins and auntswill say that I remind them a
lot of her, but I didn't havethat own personal experience
(34:51):
with her.
So I think being able to liveher life and understand the
difficulties that she wentthrough and all of the things
that she experienced, I thinkwould make me a better person.
So I think I would trade spaceswith her.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Amazing.
It's so deep.
Oh, Lauren.
We could literally talk anothertwo hours.
Just, I don't know if anyonewould still be listening, but it
wouldn't even be water, you know, we would just be like, Oh,
you're still there.
Great.
Thanks for, thanks for hanging.
Um, you're just amazing and Ireally adore you.
(35:31):
You're just so amazing.
So, um, I just want to thank youagain for being a part of need
to ask podcast
Speaker 2 (35:38):
And no need to ask, come on.
You know what we do, I know whatwe do, and hopefully I can have
you back on because this hasbeen way too much fun.
I would be absolutely honored tobe a part of this podcast again.
And to have a conversation withyou.
I mean, you don't seriously, youdon't have to ask, you just have
(36:00):
to be like Lauren, allnotifications.
I love it.
It's so good.
It's just so much like there'sso many synergies, but also like
just, there is so much blackgirl magic here.
And just, I feel like I'velearned so much from you, um, in
(36:24):
all the things that you havedone and to be able to be on
this platform with you.
I mean, your name is AmaniDuncan.
You are a true boss lady who hasabsolutely look up to you.
And the fact that you asked meto do something like this is, I
am completely honored.
Oh, you so much for allowing meto be a part of your podcast.
(36:49):
Oh.
As you truly are a gem.
Oh, I adore you.
Thank you so much.
They, the feeling's mutual.
We can go on forever talkingabout our mutual love, but end.
Thank you.
Honestly.
Thank you for listening to ouramazing conversation between two
friends.
(37:10):
I will definitely link in thedescription for this podcast,
the past the Mike podcastplatform so that you guys can
listen to all of the episodeshosted by the wonderful Lauren
Williams.
So until we meet again, be safeand be well.
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