September 29, 2025 • 52 mins
What happens when the wind is so powerful it literally rips the air from your lungs? Sue Stockdale knows this terrifying reality all too well. Trapped for 36 hours in a small tent during a violent storm on the Greenland ice cap, her survival wasn't just a physical battle but a profound mental one. "I discovered depths of resilience that I didn't know I had," she recalls, in a moment that would shape the rest of her extraordinary life.
From becoming the first British woman to reach the magnetic North Pole to skiing across Greenland's vast frozen expanse, Sue has pushed herself into some of the world's most unforgiving environments. But these adventures weren't just about conquering extreme conditions—they revealed fundamental truths about human potential that Sue now brings to boardrooms and leadership teams worldwide.
Her journey began with curiosity and defiance. When she spotted an advert seeking "novice Arctic explorers" with the tagline "Are you man enough for the ultimate challenge?", something sparked inside her. Despite having neither the experience nor the £15,000 required, Sue trusted her gut feeling—a pattern established early in life after losing her mother suddenly at age fourteen, which taught her that "life could be short" and we must maximize our potential.
What makes Sue's story particularly compelling is how she translates the lessons from polar expeditions into practical wisdom for everyday life and business leadership. Whether facing a literal storm in the Arctic or a metaphorical one in the corporate world, success often depends on managing your mind rather than external circumstances. "We're finding what it means to be alive," she explains about pushing beyond comfort zones, highlighting how modern life has emphasized exploitation over exploration—both externally and within ourselves.
Ready to discover what you're truly capable of? Connect with Sue at SueStockdale.com and explore her book "Explore: A Life of Adventure" for inspiration to step into your own unknown territories, whatever form they might take.
Sue's Website - https://suestockdale.com/
Facebook - https://web.facebook.com/SueStockdalespeaker/?_rdc=1&_rdr#
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/suestockdale/
Access to Inspiration Podcast - https://accesstoinspiration.org/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:02):
Greenland.
A frozen expanse of ice andendless horizons.
Majestic and utterly merciless.
For nearly a month, SueStockdale and her small team had
battled across this vast icecabin.
Skiing with a sledge as heavy asa person with a relentless cold
that never seen an end.
(00:23):
And then on day 24, the stormarrived.
With it, we came a savage wind,tearing down from the high point
of the ice cabinet.
It's so powerful, it literallyripped the air from your mouth.
SPEAKER_01 (00:36):
You know when you dive into a pool and you hold
your breath?
It was rather like that, justdiving outside into this
dreadful environment, holding mybreath, and then breathing when
I get into the other tent.
And now you think, oh mygoodness, what happens if this
tent collapses?
There is gonna be no way we cansurvive him in that weather.
SPEAKER_02 (00:57):
For 36 hours, their survival wasn't so much a
physical battle, but a mentalone.
And when the storm finallypassed, Sue carried with her a
lesson that would shape the restof her life.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
I think I discovered depths of resilience that I
didn't know I had.
SPEAKER_02 (01:59):
My guest today has pushed herself into some of the
harshest and most unforgivingenvironments on Earth.
From skiing across the Greenlandice cap to becoming the first
British woman to reach themagnetic North Pole.
Sue Stockdale is an adventurer,author, and speaker whose
expeditions have revealed justhow much you discover about
(02:20):
yourself when you're pushed tothe limit and beyond.
But she doesn't just leave thoselessons on the ice.
Today she works with CEOs andleaders across the world,
helping them develop the sameadventurous mindset that kept
her alive in the Arctic.
And as you heard in thatopening, her big story takes us
to Greenland, where a violentstorm left her and her team
(02:41):
fighting for their lives insidea small tent, with nothing but
their strength of will to carrythem through.
So sit back as we go behind thescenes and find out what it
takes to build a career inadventure and exploration.
You're listening to No OrdinaryMonday?
Let's get into the show.
(03:04):
All right.
Sue Stockdale, welcome to thepodcast.
How are you doing today?
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
I'm great, Chris.
Lovely to speak to you.
SPEAKER_02 (03:11):
It's always lovely to have another fellow Scott on
the end of the line, I have tosay.
Yeah.
Well yours is yours is muchstronger than mine, as mine's
been diluted over the years, butyou've managed to retain yours,
(03:33):
which is fabulous.
So the other thing that I thinkis really interesting is looking
into you, is that you actuallydipped a toe into kind of my
career a little bit in the senseof the TV world with a couple of
things.
But the one that stood out to mewas one on Channel 4 called
Superhumans.
And the reason is because Iactually made a show called
(03:54):
Superhumans as one of my firstever TV projects.
And it sounds it ironically, Iwas like, oh my god, it's the
same thing.
But I was like, no, I didn'twork with Sue back then.
I would have recognized it.
But um I did one for the BBC umway back in Scotland.
So um but yeah, so just tell mea little bit about how how that
all came about.
SPEAKER_01 (04:11):
Yeah, that was a fantastic program.
I I was invited to participatein it.
It was uh 10 of us to, you know,in so in in so-called uh terms
of the television to see who isthe most superhuman person.
Really, it was to make sciencemore appealing to the general
public.
And we were taken through 12different tests.
So imagine yourself turning upat a venue on a given day and
(04:34):
taken into a room and then told,okay, you're going to stand on a
150-foot platform, your anklestied up on a bungee cord,
potentially doing a bungee jump,and you've got to keep your
heart rate as low as possible.
Oh, and by the way, you'recompeting against somebody else.
SPEAKER_02 (04:50):
Oh my God.
Well, I have to apologizebecause it would have been
someone exactly like me devisingthose sorts of experiments and
having great glee at watching,oh my God, this is this is
great.
SPEAKER_01 (05:01):
Well, one of the things that was quite funny,
Chris, and I think you'llprobably identify with this, is
when we were doing thisfearlessness test, and I have a
fear of heights, and I had putthat on the form that we were
all to fill in at the start ofthe whole programme, you know,
it's sort of details aboutyourself.
And they asked the question,what's your greatest fear?
Well, I am always honest when Ifill in forms, so I put fear uh
heights.
(05:21):
And then speaking to the othercontestants later, they're like,
Surely you didn't tell them thetruth, Sue.
So there I was pitched againstin this fearlessness test, 150
feet off the ground.
I was pitched against afirefighter.
Now, you know, he's used togoing up on those turntable
ladders, and and the and the thescientist that had devised the
test, uh, along with all thecamera crew before we went up,
(05:43):
said, Okay, Sue, uh, you know,what's your strategy?
What and the other guy, what'syour strategy?
And he shrugged his shouldersand went, Strategy.
I don't need a strategy.
I do this all the time.
unknown (05:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:53):
And I said, Oh, I'm going to use visualization, a
technique I know from myathletics background.
Hmm.
So all the camera crew werebetting on who was going to win
between the two of us.
And every single one of them beton the firefighter and the
scientist bet on me because Ihad a strategy and and I you
know had said aboutvisualization.
And of course, guess who won?
SPEAKER_02 (06:14):
Amazing.
So wait, so that meant thatbasically like you had heart
rate monitors, and whoeverwhoever's heart rate raised to a
certain level, their bungee jumpwould like commence, they would
be dropped.
Yes.
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (06:25):
You had a hundred, I think it was like a 500
heartbeats.
So you know, it was counting whoreaches 500 heart heartbeats the
quack the quickest, which meansyou're the most anxious.
Yeah.
And those that can keep theirheart rate lowest would won't
have to do the bungee jump.
So um using that visualizationtechnique helped me to keep my
heart rate low and helped me tobeat the firefighter.
SPEAKER_02 (06:48):
Brilliant.
That must have been a greatmoment.
Well, I think that's a um agreat way to introduce.
I mean, um, obviously uh you areprobably best known as the first
British woman to reach themagnetic north pole, umst other
um endeavours and achievements.
But um I guess what I like to doat the start is just, you know,
(07:09):
imagine you're at a party orsomething like that, and someone
comes up to you and says, Oh,hey, what do you do?
Um, what do you do for a living?
You know, um what what's yoursort of stock answer usually?
SPEAKER_01 (07:21):
Uh well it depends on what sort of party it was,
but sometimes if I'm feeling ina jolly mood, I'd probably say,
Oh, I'm an adventurer.
SPEAKER_00 (07:28):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (07:29):
And then that normally gets uh, oh, what does
that mean?
Or, you know, what what's adventwhat sort of adventures do you
do?
And then I might talk aboutpolar adventures and uh
challenging myself in differentways, exploring the unknown.
And then that normally gets intoa whole conversation about uh
how other people, how they'rehow they have a level of comfort
or not with exploring theunknown.
(07:51):
And actually that has got me abig bit of business as a as a in
my uh life as an entrepreneur,where I did have this type of
conversation with somebody, andwhen I said to them, So what do
you do to take risks in yourjob?
And there was a long silence,and they said, Oh, yes, I
probably need to do more ofthat.
And then about a week later,after we'd swapped business
cards, they contacted me and uhI ended up doing a big piece of
(08:14):
work for their organization todo with helping them to be more
uh lead, you know, be betterleaders.
But that came as a result ofthat kind of introduction at a
party.
So uh it's a brilliant,sometimes a good opener.
SPEAKER_02 (08:25):
Yeah, it's a great opener.
I mean I mean it's interestingbecause when people hear, you
know, Polar Explorer orAdventurer or something like
that, they might think, oh,that's isn't that just like a
it's like an outdoor hobby orlike some sort of thing like
that.
Like, but at what point like dhas it become a career for you,
like to become an adventurer orpolar explorer?
Because there has to be thatdistinction between something
(08:47):
that people just do outside ofit could be a lawyer or
something that goes and doespolar stuff, but this is your
career.
SPEAKER_01 (08:54):
Yeah, I I I guess it took a turn towards being a
career, Chris.
But in uh when I was in my latetwenties, and I I had had a I
was working in a corporateorganization, doing that kind of
job that you know many people dothese days, corporate training
and development, getting a nicesalary, pension scheme, company
car, so on.
The whole, the whole uh, thewhole thing.
(09:16):
And uh I I just found I wasn'tfulfilled.
I I it wasn't there wassomething missing.
And so I um I left that job, Igot an opportunity, I saw an
advert in the newspaper, and Iended up going to work for a
year in a war zone with theUnited United Nations.
Now, this was a a qualityassurance job, so it was there
(09:37):
to to help the civilianworkforce improve their
efficiency that were supportingthe military as well.
But it was uh that was like anadventure for me, and that's why
I took the job in the end.
I said to myself, logic says onpaper this doesn't make sense at
all.
Why would you leave all of thiskind of familiarity to go into
the unknown?
And then I used my gut feel andmy intuition, and it said this
(10:00):
is just the thing to do.
So you want an adventure, here'san adventure.
SPEAKER_02 (10:06):
You know, to sort of go, it doesn't make sense to to
do this thing that's reallyrisky.
Um why why at what point do youthink you kind of learn to trust
that kind of gut instinct andand and follow it?
SPEAKER_01 (10:20):
Ooh, great question, Chris.
Uh fairly early on.
Um well, I'll I'll give you abit of the back of the backstory
that probably led also to thisthinking about being uh
adventuresome, is sadly when Iwas 14 years old, my mum died
suddenly.
She was in her early 50s.
And you know, in in most onedoesn't expect to to pass away
(10:43):
at that at that kind of age.
And so I think as a young girl,I got into my thinking, well, A,
life could be short, and B,therefore, if that could be a
reality for any of us, uh,surely we need to make the most
of the time we're here on earth.
And so there was something aboutmaximizing, I didn't call it
this when I was 14, butmaximizing one's potential,
(11:05):
exploring what one's capable of.
And um so that I was kind ofdriving us as well, is how often
do you ever get an opportunityto go and work in a war zone and
see what that reality is like?
unknown (11:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:20):
Now, maybe most of the listeners listening to this,
Chris, are thinking, well, I'dnever want to find out the
answer to that.
But if you put on that backdropof what I just explained about
uh, you know, life is short,life could be short, so take
those opportunities, then Ithink that is quite a pr a
pivotal point to then drivetowards that.
(11:40):
And I think then having done ayear there, having survived,
having learned a lot andrealized the reality of what
that was like, that gave me ahuge amount of confidence.
Because if I can do that and itworks out, then what else can I
do?
unknown (11:56):
Brilliant.
SPEAKER_02 (11:57):
Um so that was the kind of point where you because
I what I find fascinating aboutyour I mean, we go into lots of
careers on this podcast, youknow, we've got paramedics and
you know, scientists and stuff,but this is not if you're at a
school career sphere, like thisis not typically one that you
would find sort of likeengineer, doctor, lawyer, polar
(12:18):
explorer.
I mean, at what point did youthink like this is a viable
career?
Was it when you were in in thatwar zone kind of thought, this
is this is it, like I can make aI can make a career, I can make
a living out of doing this.
SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
Not uh exactly.
And and by the way, when I whenI would be at those career fairs
when I was a young girl, whatwas going on in my mind, Chris,
was I wanted to be a a cook onan oil rig.
So I think there was an elementof adventure even back then.
SPEAKER_02 (12:49):
Oh wow, that's fascinating.
So you were you know a girl inschool, you know, like in their
teenage years, and you thought,I want to be a cook on an oil
rig.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:58):
Oh my god, where did where did that idea come from?
SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
Uh well, I like eating.
So that's a cookbook, maybe.
Um and so so I don't know whereit came from.
I don't know anybody that workson an oil rig or anything to do
with the the oil industry in inScotland.
But somehow it's uh there wassomething that appealed to me
about that kind of adventuringinto the unknown.
And so, to me, in a way, ifthere's anything, that those
(13:23):
young people, when they'redeveloping ideas for the future,
is if the biggest thing theyneed to foster is curiosity and
imagination and possibility,because then that opens up the
doors for thinking about maybeadventurer being on that career
list, and then and it was goingto that work in the war zone
that for me was that door openerinto beginning to then think,
(13:44):
oh, I could do something moreadventurous.
And next after that came theNorth Pole opportunity, and so
that was the and that was reallythe the the big uh game changer
in terms of being an adventurerand saying I can do adventurous
things in my life and uh earn aliving as well.
SPEAKER_02 (14:01):
Because again, that that is a huge that's a huge
step for someone to be able to,you know, to have an expedition.
Like I mean, I I really want togo into that actually at this
point, is just to sort of thatwhole process of because you
know, being the first woman toreach magnetic fourth pole,
that's no small achievement.
But I'm sure the journey to getthere must have been long and
(14:22):
arduous.
So just take us through that alittle bit.
SPEAKER_01 (14:24):
Yeah, well, I I saw again, I saw this advert in the
newspaper.
So I'm a great advocate ofreading newspapers and seeing
things.
SPEAKER_00 (14:30):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
Um I saw this advert in the newspaper and it said uh
wanted 10 novice Arcticexplorers.
And there was a picture of of uhyou know the Arctic and polar
bear, probably, and there weretwo qualifications to go on this
expedition to the magnetic northpole, two two sort of things you
had to have to apply.
One the ability to work in ateam, and that's you know, that
(14:52):
that sounds very glib, butactually that was really an
important point is you're notthere as an individual, you're
there as part of a team andsupporting other people as well.
And then the second was theability to raise£15,000,$25,000,
uh, to pay for your place.
Now, you know, I had no idea howto raise that amount of money.
I probably could have bought ahouse if I'd had that amount of
(15:12):
money back in the mid-90s.
Um, but I had a mindset and Isaid to myself, if it's meant to
be, I'll find a way.
So I just said that.
I just said, and what's what'sthe worst that can happen if I
send off for details?
Nothing.
So I sent off for theinformation, and then a brochure
arrived back in the post, and itwas all glossy pictures of men,
(15:34):
and on the front of the brochureit said, Are you man enough for
the ultimate challenge?
SPEAKER_02 (15:40):
This is the 90s, by the way, just to remind
everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (15:43):
Yes, so maybe that wouldn't appear today, but
nonetheless, isn't it sometimeswe're as driven by a I'll prove
you wrong motivation as a let'ssee what's possible?
And it and I thought, how darethey think men can only go on
this expedition?
You know, I want to go as well.
I didn't know where the magneticnorth pole was, but I thought
it's somewhere cold and white.
(16:04):
This sounds challenging, thissounds like an adventure, I'm
going to apply.
And hundreds of people, ofcourse, applied.
And then there was a wholeseries of selection tests to
narrow down the final team of10.
So we did physical tests, mentaltests, uh, lots of different
things.
And even although I got myplace, which was I was only
confirmed my place in theJanuary, the expedition was
(16:26):
happening in the April, and thenyou would have to come up with
the money.
SPEAKER_02 (16:29):
Brilliant.
And then the actual expeditionitself, you were one of how many
in the team?
SPEAKER_01 (16:35):
There were 10 of us in the team that were novices.
So there were eight men andmyself and a Swedish woman,
Susanna, and then there werefour experienced explorers.
So there was a quite a big teamof us, 14 out on the ice.
SPEAKER_02 (16:46):
And and just what was that experience like?
Was it easier or harder than youthought it was going to be?
Like just put us in the sort ofthe uh that sort of adventure.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
Well, imagine that you've never done any
cross-country skiing before, andyou and you arrive in northern
Canada and you're given somecross-country skis, and then
you've got a sledge that'sweighing the weight of an
average person, and you'rehaving to drag that across ice
that looks like rubble in abuilding site.
So we're not talking about anice rink, smooth ice, and you
know, wonderful, sunny, lovelyconditions.
(17:19):
We're talking about uh a frozenArctic Ocean, and with the
currents of the water, it pushesthe ice together, and then you
get these giant lumps of ice,and you have to travel across
that with your skis on.
So you're not really skiing.
Your skis are there, yeah, withyour sled too.
So it's physically and mentallydemanding.
You know, uh, we were skiingsometimes 10, 12 hours a day.
(17:40):
So it is it is not an easyexperience, but at the end of it
it was very rewarding.
SPEAKER_02 (17:46):
Aaron Powell For how many how many days did it take
you from from start to start?
SPEAKER_01 (17:49):
We took a month, a month to ski.
350 miles, five hundred andforty kilometers to every day,
ten to twelve hours on the move.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:00):
Oh my god.
But I that that can I mean for alot of people listening, just
putting people in that positionof being one of a team of ten,
some some most of them novices,doing something that is uh very
difficult physically andmentally.
Like you say the what's theworst thing that can happen?
The worst thing that can happenis failure, you know, and how do
you uh failure in the sense of,you know, you just cannot keep
(18:23):
up with the team, you know?
And uh how do you personally,how do you deal with failure?
Has that sort of have you got atechnique for it?
Has it changed over the years?
It must be something you've gotto overcome on any well, not
just expeditions, but in any anysort of thing you do.
SPEAKER_01 (18:38):
Yeah, it's a it's a it's an important and uh uh
salient point to re refer to,Chris.
I y I think what I learned aboutfailure, well, I learned about
failure in lots of differentparts of my life.
Yeah.
Particularly, I I used tocompete in athletics uh pr
competitively, so I ran for uhultimately ran for my country.
(19:00):
And I used to go out onto theathletics track every day, or
you know, I was training everyday, maybe running in the
streets or on the track, buttraining every day, and I
learned then that you know you syou can sometimes fade, uh, you
know, you lose your energyquicker than you imagine,
somebody's gonna be faster thanyou.
But then the next time thenyou're better than them.
(19:21):
And so never giving up was whatI learned from training, to just
keep going no matter how bad youfeel, and you'll get through it.
The power that other people canhelp you through that, so you're
not there on your own, you'vegot kind of that energy of
others around you, and not andnot to be afraid to take failure
as learning because that's theonly way I ever improved on my
(19:43):
athletics times was to fail, notdo a time I wanted to do or
something, but then I wouldlearn and I would try again.
So I don't see I don't usefailure as a word that's uh
negative.
Failure is part of growth, andthe more we fail, the m faster
we learn, the quicker we will beable to develop.
SPEAKER_02 (20:03):
Yeah, it's just a step on the journey.
Yeah.
I mean, just you mentioned therehow important uh the team that
you surround yourself with, youknow, particularly I mean
obviously in again we we're sortof both talking in a expedition
sense, but also in a you know,maybe even a corporate or a
business sense.
But talking about how muchenergy you can derive from
(20:24):
others, do you think you wouldhave been able to do that
expedition solo?
No.
Given the skills that you Imean, it could put the skills
aside, like you needed the team,did you?
You couldn't do that alone.
SPEAKER_01 (20:36):
Yeah.
Well, I I I I was quick to sayno.
No, because I wouldn't want todo it on my own, first of all.
Yes, I probably could do it if Iwas forced into it.
But then the number one thingwould be what's the compelling
enough reason to want to do it.
And that having purpose is sucha huge thing.
And all of us in our North Poleteam had a combined desire and
(20:58):
purpose to get to the NorthPole.
You know, that is hugelyenergizing and it is hugely
magnetic.
I mean, we're going to themagnetic pole, but you know,
there's a there's a there's adraw towards something that you
want to accomplish.
And that that is quite animportant ingredient in keeping
you moving forward.
SPEAKER_02 (21:15):
Aaron Ross Powell There's something I've always
wondered about these kind oftrips, big expeditions, you
know, going either going to theNorth Pole or transecting the
Sahara or whatever it might be.
You know, you talk aboutpurpose.
I mean, was there a particulargoal in mind for that
expedition, or was it justsomeone that said, I I have this
dream.
I'm gonna put together a teamand we're gonna do it.
(21:37):
But there's no particular reasonwe're gonna do it.
We're just gonna do it becauseit's a challenging thing to do.
SPEAKER_01 (21:42):
Well, there were a couple of a couple of reasons,
Chris.
One is it was part of whatyou've just described, yes.
It now today, no you can prettymuch go anywhere in the world
and put down money and you'llhave somebody that can guide you
and take you there.
That is the world of adventurethat we live in today.
Thirty-odd years ago, thatdidn't exist.
(22:02):
The only people that wereexploring were people who were
kind of professional explorersat the time, or that is what
that is what they were doing.
It wasn't the the norm for let'scall it a novice, an ordinary
person to go into an extremeenvironment.
And so David Hempelman Adams,our expedition leader, said, I
wonder if that's possible totake people who haven't got all
(22:23):
of this experience andbackground and adventure and
mountaineering and so on, totake them on an expedition.
So that was kind of hiscuriosity, then advertising for
the team.
But um, you know, along withthat, then we were doing
scientific doing some collectingscientific data for the
University of Ottawa to trackthe location of the pole.
(22:45):
So that was an additionalpurpose, but it wasn't the
reason for the expedition.
The main and obviously once wewere successful, then you know
it was like, oh yes, well, wecan do this.
And it and if you look back inthe re history records after our
expedition, a lot of otherexpeditions followed on, where
it was groups of all women oryou know, lots of different
other kinds of groups of novicesbegan to do expeditions.
(23:08):
But we were the kind of pioneersin that going to the North Pole.
SPEAKER_02 (23:12):
Brill, yeah.
I mean, in this sort of middlepart of the chat, I always love
uh guests to sort of share themost, you know, standout
experience of their entirecareer, you know, whether it's
the most unforgettable, thescariest, the most
death-defying.
Um, I wonder whether you couldtake us through.
I know you've done so much, andthere's like lots of things to
(23:34):
choose from, but what what whatis it for you, would you say?
SPEAKER_01 (23:37):
Well well, if we think about risk taking, and
that's what adventuring's allabout, Chris.
You know, the the ultimate riskthat one takes takes is with
one's life.
And so for me, the the theclosest I've come to death is
probably the most memorable forthe wrong reasons experience.
And this was back in 1999.
I was on an expedition withthree others skiing across the
(24:00):
Greenland Ice Cap.
Now we're that's that's thetoughest expedition I've done
out of all the ones I've doneover the years because the
terrain is we we were skiingtwo-thirds uphill from from sea
level to 8,000 feet and backdown again over the course of a
month.
And also that that draggingreally heavy sledges were
(24:20):
completely self-sufficient, andthe temperatures were really
cold.
So put all of those factorstogether.
It's physically, emotionallydemanding.
A small team, you know, you'rereally just reliant on one
another.
SPEAKER_02 (24:33):
And we got you leading this team?
SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
No, we were there, wasn't really an a leader.
We were all kind of it was itwas almost like a collective.
One person had to have the ideato organize it.
They all we all got involved andwe all had varying levels of
knowledge and experience andskills.
So there was quite a distributedleadership uh amongst the team.
So we were we'd been in thisexpedition now for 24 days.
(24:57):
So uh, you know, we we knew eachother pretty well by this point.
SPEAKER_02 (25:01):
We're pretty much a good idea.
But did you at the start wereyou were you pretty new to each
other on day one?
Or did you kind of have a youknow, you you kind of
familiaricize familiariseyourself with each other
beforehand?
SPEAKER_01 (25:12):
Uh we were probably pretty new to each other.
I knew the the the the Germanguy who organized it.
I had uh spoken to him a coupleof times.
I'd I'd met him with somefriends of mine in a bar in
Chile two years earlier, and andthat's a whole other story about
even just that kind ofserendipitous meeting when you
hear a non-Spanish uh voicehaving a conversation.
(25:34):
Um, so so he you know he waskind of an acquaintance, a
contact, knew I did polarexpeditions, had invited me on
the team and said I've got acouple of Norwegians as well
that are coming along.
So the four of us on the team, Ididn't know the Norwegians, and
I barely knew the German guythat was organizing it.
SPEAKER_00 (25:50):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (25:50):
But I I knew of his experience in expeditions and
he'd been very successful.
So there's a bit of that kind oftrack record and credibility.
We didn't know each other wellat the start, but obviously
after 24 days, we're knowingeach other a lot better.
And um this particular day, Ithink we'd skied 40 kilometers.
So what's that?
(26:11):
About 24 miles, something likethat.
In temperatures minus 20Celsius, something like that.
Yeah, the relentless uh wind inyour face very often, the
extreme cold, it's physicallyand mentally demanding, and just
sapping, sapping all yourcapability to make decisions, to
(26:33):
think clearly.
And by the end of this day, wewe every day up until that
point, we had built a snow wall.
So it's a bit like a wind break,blocks of snow and ice.
Imagine like half an igloo.
SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:45):
You build that to to have some sort of protection
when you pitch your tent,knowing that if the wind gets
stronger, you've got someprotection there.
Now we have done this for twentytwenty-four days, and there's
never been any strong wind inthe evening.
SPEAKER_02 (27:00):
Yeah.
And just to just clarify, youwere you building one tent for
the four of you or individualtents?
SPEAKER_01 (27:06):
There were two tents, so two two-person tents.
So we had to build two snowwalls and put pitch our two
tents.
And we all and every day wewould sort of share with
somebody else.
So we never just shared with thesame person all the time.
We used to switch around to sortof you know avoid clicks
happening.
Um so we were we were exhaustedon this given day.
(27:27):
I'm sure that you know, I knowwe we half-heartedly built that
snow wall, just thinking, oh,well, we've done this every
other day.
I can't wait to get in thattent.
I'm so tired.
You know, when you do somethingwith not a lot of energy and
commitment.
And so we dived into the tents,and uh the the Norwegian and
(27:47):
myself, the woman, we were inone tent, the guys were in the
other that time, they were doingthe cooking, and we would
normally all meet in one tentand eat together.
And we're lying in our sleepingbags, exhausted, and we're
waiting for them to shout for usto to go through and eat food.
And it's much, much longer thannormal.
We're like, Where is it?
Why aren't they telling us?
(28:07):
But meanwhile, we're hearingthis noise getting stronger and
stronger outside, the noise ofthe wind.
And they were they were callingto us, in fact, but we couldn't
hear them.
And eventually then one of themcomes to the end of our tent,
unzips the door, sticks his headin and says, Come and get your
food and bring your sleepingbags.
And we're thinking, What's hegoing on about?
(28:28):
So, in those few steps betweenone tent and the next, the
strength of the wind outside,you know, imagine um really
strong wind, um horrendous, notquite hurricane levels, but you
know, really strong wind.
Uh I had I felt it was likediving into a swimming pool.
You know, when you dive into apool and you hold your breath
(28:50):
under the water and then youwait until you come up and you
can breathe again.
It was rather like that, justdiving outside into this
dreadful environment, holding mybreath and then breathing when I
get into the other tent.
Oh, whew, I'm out of that wind,it's horrendous.
But now I'm thinking, well, hangon a minute, this is the wrong
way around, isn't it?
That that we should be able tobreathe outside.
(29:12):
And what's going to happen ifthose winds get stronger?
Our snowball will probablycollapse and our tent might blow
away.
So this is what was goingthrough my mind.
And we're all we all get in thetent together and then start to
say, This must be a storm.
And uh one of the others says,Well, remember those Norwegians
that we met, because we'd met aNorwegian team a few days
(29:34):
earlier that had come theopposite direction from us,
they'd gone from east, uh eastto west, we were going west to
east, and they had told us thatat this similar point, which is
a high point on the ice cap,they had encountered a storm,
winds so cold, uh winds sostrong temperatures so cold that
two of their dogs had died.
They had they had dog team withthem.
(29:56):
So, you know, you have I hadthis in my imagination.
Oh no, this is a sort of Ofstorm where their dogs died, it
must this is going to behorrendous.
And now we're four of us sittingin this tiny two-person tent,
the wind shaking all around us,making the tent shudder, and now
you think, Oh my goodness, whathappens if this tent collapses?
(30:19):
There is going to be no way wecan survive out in that weather.
And there's no protection,there's no people, there's no
nothing around us for miles andmiles and miles.
SPEAKER_02 (30:30):
Jeez.
So just to just to clarify,like, even I think just because
it's such an important point toemphasize, like standing
outside, you're outside and it'sblowing a gale, and you can't
breathe.
You're literally, you cannotsuck in air, or the maybe it's
the wind is so strong it'sliterally pulling the air from
your lungs.
SPEAKER_01 (30:47):
Yeah, yeah.
It's that you maybe maybe someof the listeners have been out
on a windy day in theircountries and and they've had
that sort of sensation whereyou're just you're trying to
catch your breath.
It's so strong, the wind.
And so that's what it was likeout there in the Arctic.
And um wow.
That's that that's it was it didmake me suddenly think, oh my
(31:08):
goodness, you know, that pointabout life could be short.
The wind over me had suddenlygot a lot a lot shorter.
And uh and the four of us allkind of managed that uh those
moments and those hours.
It ended up being 36 hours.
We were stuck in that tent,waiting for the storm to
(31:28):
subside.
Um that it did make it's a long36 hours, let me tell you.
SPEAKER_02 (31:34):
Well, I guess on on an expedition like that, I think
maybe people don't realise thatthat you don't have a lot of
room for redundancy.
You don't overpack, you don't,you know, you have you go, I
need this much food for thismany days, and it's you know,
you don't pack extra daysbecause you've got to carry it.
And you guys are stuck in thesame spot having to feed
yourselves, but then you've gota ration and you've got like,
(31:57):
you know, mental stress to dealwith and all that.
Like, how did you how did youmanage that?
SPEAKER_01 (32:02):
Yeah, well well, I think remember that what goes in
must come out if we eatanything, Chris.
SPEAKER_02 (32:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:08):
From a from a practicality perspective.
So you don't really want towell, you couldn't it was too s
the wind was really strong forany of us to go outside.
One of the Norwegians, he didbrave it to just even get out
the door and stop our tentgetting completely covered over
with snow, so we wouldn't evenbe able to escape.
So he went out and uh he wasonly out for a few moments and
(32:29):
he came back and his face wascompletely covered in ice, his
beard was all frosty.
I have a I have a photograph ofhim somewhere where it reminds
me every time I see it.
And and you know, he was thebrave one to go outside and try
and make sure that our tentcould be protected as best it
could be.
But the rest of us were insidejust thinking, you know, oh my
goodness, how are we going tosurvive this?
(32:50):
And it wasn't that kind of like,oh Chris, I'm so scared, what
are we going to do?
There was none of that sort ofcommunication together.
One person actually sort ofretreated into wearing their
headphones, and we didn't havemuch battery power to be able to
ever use headphones for music.
This was the old Sony Walkmandays, but they had they had a
little bit of of power, so theykind of put their headphones on
(33:11):
and just listened to music.
And another one was thinkingabout well, how much rations do
we have and how many days, andsort of strategizing about what
ifs.
Of course, the other Norwegianwas going out to worry about the
tent, and I was just alwaysthinking about what we will get
to eat when we survive this.
Because that's the thing, that'sthe thing that always keeps me
(33:31):
happy is uh you know, lookingforward to some next tasty meal.
SPEAKER_02 (33:36):
The next meal.
Oh my god.
So I mean just to just to touchon that, as you said, 36 hours
is a long time to hold one'sbodily functions.
Is is that what you guys did?
Or did you did you go out, didyou have to take a big breath of
air and then try and go outsidequickly because you've got
layers and layers of clothes on,or did you sit in the corner and
try and like, you know, relieveyourself in a water bottle?
(33:56):
Like how do because I've been onexpeditions before where the
toilet situation is obviouslyvery important.
We're nowhere near a functioningtoilet, so you've got to manage
those things suitably.
But what do you guys end updoing?
SPEAKER_01 (34:11):
Yes.
Well, I uh you know, it itagain, reality it's somewhat
different for men and women.
Men can release themselves intoa bottle or something like that
a little bit more easily than awoman can.
In in a tent, there's two twoends to the tent, obviously.
And there was the one side thatwe would always use as our exit
in and out when if we did goout.
But on the other, at the otherend, so the non-entrance end,
(34:32):
you still have the kind of spacebetween the fly sheet outer and
the inner, and that would be thethe effectively our our toilet
space.
But you know, you're it's it'sit's like having a thin curtain
between you and three otherpeople.
I mean, there is no privacyreally, and uh I think most we
hardly even ate anything.
(34:52):
It was more about just havinghot drinks occasionally to keep
us warm.
But if you eat something, you'reeating into those rations that
you talked about, and you stillhave to ski the same distance
afterwards, so you don't reallywant to eat much food at all.
So it's a bit of a a bit of uh atough existence lying there in
your sleeping bag.
Now it's not even dark, it's24-hour daylight, so you're just
(35:15):
lying in the in the light.
That's the time where yourimagination can run riot, you
can catastrophize.
It's so important to keep one'smind focused on the possible the
things that are working, the thethings that we can do, as
opposed to, well, what if thisand what if that, and you know,
(35:36):
I'm gonna die here?
Because that's not a road I wantto think about in those sorts of
situations.
It's about being reallypractical.
SPEAKER_02 (35:45):
It's really amazing how you describe everyone's
different reaction to being inthat situation.
You've got one who's going,Great, we've got this many
rations for this many days,you've got the other guy outside
trying to be physical, solvingthe problem, you've got one
who's just burying their head inthe sand, potentially, with the
music, and you've got you that'skind of going, you know, trying
to, again, visualization, tryingto sort of project, you know, um
(36:07):
useful thoughts that keep yougoing.
But I guess of all of those uhsituations, I guess everyone's
got a slightly different way ofhandling it.
And I guess how do you I guessyeah, how how do you know how
it's going to be for you whenyou get to that kind of point?
You know, how do you managethat?
SPEAKER_01 (36:28):
Uh I didn't I didn't know.
I didn't know.
Yeah.
And um I I think I discovereddiscovered depths of resilience
that I didn't know I had, evenin that moment of doing nothing
effectively.
And there is, you know, I amquite an activist, as you
probably have worked out alreadyfrom the the things we've been
(36:50):
talking about so far, Chris.
I do like doing things, butsometimes you can't do your way
out of a situation.
You can't just act, becauseacting is not what's required.
And in those, in that particularsituation, out there on the ice,
out there in the coldtemperatures, the the acting
that you're doing is managingyour mind.
unknown (37:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:13):
You're doing on the inside, not on the outside.
And and that probably againreinforces to me so much that
that's why I spend a lot of timethese days in my my job helping
other people to develop thatadventurous mindset.
And it's exactly to those pointsthat if they're a leader in a
business, if they're anentrepreneur, whatever they're
(37:34):
doing, is that are they aware ofwhat their mind is telling them
and how are they in control oftheir mind, or is a mind in
control of them?
And and that's what I had totake control of in that tent is
I'm not gonna do anything else.
I'm just gonna take control ofmy mind and focus on the
thoughts that are gonna beserving me here.
And I learned that in themoment, I think.
(37:55):
Not there was no training forthat beforehand.
SPEAKER_02 (37:58):
That's amazing.
Because I guess that's what youtook from that experience.
It's kind of the one thingthat's you know um sort of
allowed you to progress as a asa human or or whatever you want
to call it.
Uh it's amazing.
Um I'm kind of curious, uh isthere because I've had this on
similar expeditions before aswell.
Is there a single visual image?
(38:18):
Maybe it's a smell, maybe it's asound.
What what really is somethingthat really sort of stands out
as a something seared into yourmemory from that, from that 36
hours?
SPEAKER_01 (38:30):
It was that it's the visual picture of the the
Norwegian uh coming back in fromoutside and it and and
completely uh ice on his face,ice on his beard, ice on his
eyebrows, but still a smile onhis face.
SPEAKER_02 (38:47):
Oh brilliant.
And he was only out there forwhat a few Yeah, a few minutes,
like not even five minutes.
SPEAKER_01 (38:52):
Not even five minutes.
SPEAKER_02 (38:53):
Oh man, that's tough.
I can't believe that.
Oh amazing.
Um Brill.
Um so I mean I said all theexperience, including that one.
Um you're talking about, and Ithink you've touched on it
there, is that all of these umexpeditions that you do, the
experiences that you undertake,they're all designed to push,
(39:15):
you know, push yourself, pushyour team members beyond what
you think you're capable of.
And again, we kind of just foundit there in one example, but you
found resilience in one thing.
But why is it always importantthat we're pushing ourselves
beyond that sort of comfortline?
What what are we finding on theother side of that line?
SPEAKER_01 (39:34):
We're finding what it means to be alive, in my
view.
Uh I think if we if we uhreflect back to as well,
prehistoric days, but you know,early, early human beings,
that's what we've had to do tosurvive.
Uh I was reading a reallyinteresting book recently, The
Explorer's Gene.
(39:55):
And and that's what the thepremise of that book is, that
you know, as human beings, weare built to explore.
And and the the contrast thatthe author makes in that book is
explore and exploit.
So we have to get over the hump,so to speak, get out get up to
the top of the hill, you know,get over the the uh inertia to
make progress.
And then once we've found aplace, once we've developed
(40:18):
something new, we can are in aposition to exploit.
But it's to knowing when toexplore and when to exploit.
And and I kind of like that ideathat as human beings, uh, I
think we're actually very goodat exploiting in the Western
world today.
SPEAKER_02 (40:34):
Fair to say, yes, fair to say.
SPEAKER_01 (40:36):
In lots of different ways.
And I think we've lost a littlebit of that exploring.
So if I've got a if I've got acrusade to make, it's about
helping people to do more of theexploring.
SPEAKER_02 (40:46):
Brilliant.
Re-re kind of recapture,reignite that flame for doing
doing the thing that makes youuncomfortable, but ultimately
benefits you.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Um and you kind of mentioned acouple times already, um, your
you've got your expeditionexperiences, but that's
obviously fueled kind of likeanother asset or um facet of
(41:07):
your career.
Um, and I've noticed a lot withyou know, a lot of people that
do this adventure um stuff, theykind of move naturally into this
like coaching, leadershipmanagement, you know, working
with corporate sides of things.
Like, what is it uh because theboardroom or the office
environment is a very differentenvironment from being stuck
(41:28):
inside a tent, you know, insub-zero degrees in a near-death
experience.
Like they're opposite ends of aspectrum in some ways, but like
how are you connecting thosedots and I guess benefiting
people that may never go intothat situation, but using the
skills that you've learned thereto benefit them in their own
(41:49):
unique situations.
SPEAKER_01 (41:52):
The first thing that comes to my mind is that I did,
you know, my my career, as wetalked about, started in the
board, not in the boardroom, butin the corporate organization.
It started in the land ofbusiness.
And then it went intoadventuring, and then I thought,
how can I bring that adventuringback into the world of business?
So I think I I'm firm and verycomfortable in that environment.
(42:12):
The thing that connects bothChris is human beings.
So today, whether I'm sittingwith a CEO running a you know a
multi-million dollarorganization, or I'm sitting
with a person running a charity,or somebody that's aspirational,
looking to join, you know,starting out in their career,
I'm sitting in front of a humanbeing.
(42:33):
And that's how I try to show upas a human being.
And your listeners will get asense of that today with whether
they're thinking I am.
But and what I mean by that isjust being authentic, being
enough as you are, and knowingyes, you can grow and develop,
but actually there's something,there's a spark inside of each
of us, no matter what our levelof responsibility is and scale
of impact, that when you areseen, that will a person lights
(42:59):
up.
I always talk about likebringing out their brilliance,
and that's what I see.
That there's a there's packagingaround sitting with a CEO and
the the uh you know, theresponsibility they have and the
impact they have.
And sometimes they get out, theythey don't find a place to be a
human being.
And if they can sit in aconversation with me and they
and we've found a way to kind ofstrip back all of that packaging
(43:22):
that comes with the job, andthey get back to the essence of
just being a human being andgoing, Yeah, I don't know that.
Yeah, okay, maybe I could dothat, and uh or like, yeah, I
actually am proud that that'swhat what my values are,
whatever it is.
When they touch that connection,that that's what brings us all
together.
(43:43):
You know, we're back to ourexplore and exploit, explore
human beings and explorepotential.
And so that my quest to helppeople explore is how did they
explore themselves?
To survive, we've got to be ableto trust ourselves.
So, you know, in that moment inthe tent in the Arctic, I had to
trust myself and the team thatwe had the resources within all
(44:04):
of us to get through thatmoment.
So I I you know, we very often Ithink people have lost trust in
themselves.
They look to the internet, theylook to others, they they don't
find themselves in a positionwhere they have to be
self-reliant and say, you know,I I can do this, I can survive
this.
And so, so I think that if if Ican help bring that out of
(44:26):
somebody and they start tothink, oh, maybe I can sort of
explore my capability in adifferent way, then you know,
that's hugely satisfying for me.
And I think that's enough.
That that's the essence of whatit means to be a human being.
And like, what what better jobto have as an adventurer to
bring that out in other people?
I love what I do.
So I so yeah, adventure.
(44:48):
We can adventure everywhere, andI think it's about bringing the
the mindset that's gonna be ofmost value and most use to you
in those sort of contexts.
SPEAKER_02 (44:57):
Brill.
Um towards the end here, Ialways love to ask guests, um,
you know, for anyone who's gonnalisten to this, and I'm sure
people all walks of life, butwhat advice would you give to
people?
And I guess it's kind of likeno, actually, no, just I mean,
in terms of the building acareer and following in your
particular footsteps, you know,becoming an adventurer, stepping
(45:18):
outside your comfort zone, whatdoes it take to be successful in
that kind of space?
SPEAKER_01 (45:24):
Yeah.
Uh number one, curiosity.
So develop curiosity.
Because that's and curiosity isthe opposite of judgment.
You know, judgment serves ourbrains to make us make quick
decisions.
You know, we judge if we likesomething over something else
and we can make quick decisions.
But sometimes judgment limitsour opportunity to develop
(45:44):
curiosity.
So tr follow curiosity anddevelop that.
Uh be prepared to see failure aslearning because it, you know,
and and use it as I say, thequicker we fail, the quicker we
learn, the quicker we grow.
So see that as a process.
And then I think it's about uhdoing, taking action, as I said
(46:05):
at the start, small steps.
Seven days from now, you couldhave taken seven small steps,
you will have learned seventhings, you will have grown.
And then the next seven steps,what will they be?
In the next seven steps, youknow, unless you've got a
greenhouse, flowers have agrowing season, they will take a
time to go from a seed to aflower.
Change doesn't happen alwaysquickly, you know, or something
(46:27):
that we're striving for.
Despite what you might read inthe media, despite what you
might listen to, in successisn't instant.
And so, so just notunderstanding that that it
you're playing the long game.
Uh, you know, I was speaking toa friend of mine the other day
who said, I can't believe yougot 150 podcast episodes, Sue.
He said, That's testament tokeeping on, keeping on.
(46:48):
He said, I could never do that.
I said, Well, yeah, you could ifyou want to.
And so that that's the thing, ittakes time.
And so those are just some ofthe lessons that I think can be
applied to any career ordecision or activity that people
want to try.
SPEAKER_02 (47:01):
I think that's it's good advice, but it's really um
it's so difficult to followsometimes, particularly for
young kids in this day and age.
You've got instantgratification, you've got a an
environment, a digitalenvironment, a cyber environment
that moves at a million miles asecond.
You know, is there you know uhany techniques that you've kind
(47:26):
of given to people about how doyou actually just slow down and
go, it's okay, this takes time.
I can't rush this, be patient.
SPEAKER_01 (47:36):
Well, you know, I as you're saying that, Chris, the
question that's going through mymind is rushing to what end?
You know, uh and maybe I'msounding like I'm 95 now or
something and a bit, a bit a bitcynical or something.
But if I as I sit back and justlook at the the the world around
us, you know, you're talkingabout speed.
(47:56):
Speed to what end?
What are we trying to rushtowards?
As we fill up our lives withbusier stuff, are we any
happier?
So maybe there is some just adifferent way of being busy, a
different way of of sayingactually what is happiness?
And you know, if I go back to uhmy first ever expedition in
Kenya, which was back in 1988,uh, with a with an organised
(48:18):
charity called uh RallyInternational, they're now doing
still expeditions, but they'remobile phone-free.
So the young people going onthose expeditions love it
because there's no uh uhconnection with technology, and
they can get back to all thisstuff that I'm talking about
today, about kind of thesimplicity of life.
And so, you know, maybe there'ssomething in in what I'm saying
here, just be bring thatcritical thinking and not just
(48:41):
habitually get on your phone orand I'm not I'm not anti-phones
at all, but it's it's it'severything's got a time and a
place, so it's being morecritical about like what's
driving this, why am I doing it?
Is is fast helpful to take mewhere I want to go, and if I get
there, then what happens?
So, you know, I I think if thereis something I've seen, and
(49:01):
maybe I'm getting away from yourquestion now, Chris, but
something I've observed of lifeis that that many people are
they're they're they're busybecause they want to fill up
their time to actually avoidsitting down and asking some of
those critical questions as whoam I, what am I about, why am I
here?
And and because they don't wantto face that, you know, there's
where the courage is required toto actually say, maybe I could
(49:25):
do more with my life and whatwould have to change.
SPEAKER_02 (49:28):
Um brilliant.
Sue, thank you so much for uhtaking the time.
I mean, just at the end, Ialways like to say, is there
anything you'd like to plug,anything you'd like to promote,
where can people find you?
Um, stuff that you've maybewritten, you've written lots of
books.
SPEAKER_01 (49:41):
Yeah, well, I I think two things.
If people want to think abouthow to develop an adventurous
mindset and get a little bit ofinspiration, then they may want
to reach out and connect withme.
So SueStockdale.com is thewebsite, and you can get all my
connections from there.
Uh and the book if you likereading, it's on uh Audible as
well as uh in the written form,Explore a Life of Adventure.
(50:03):
And that will be giving you alittle bit of inspiration to
step into the unknown.
SPEAKER_02 (50:07):
Brilliant.
Did you have did you read theaudiobook by any chance?
SPEAKER_01 (50:10):
I did, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (50:11):
You voiced it.
Oh, brilliant.
I did voice it.
So good to hear you share dulcettones if we go on the audible.
Yes.
And of course, your Access toInspiration podcast um as well.
Um people should have a listen.
SPEAKER_01 (50:23):
Yes, absolutely.
unknown (50:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (50:25):
All right.
Sue, thank you so much fortaking the time today.
Great speaking with you.
SPEAKER_01 (50:29):
Thank you, Chris.
It's been great to be here.
SPEAKER_02 (50:36):
And that is it for this week's episode.
A huge thanks to Sue for sharingher extraordinary stories.
And of course, a big thanks toyou all for listening as well.
Sue has kindly shared the photosfrom that infamous Greenland
expedition, uh, including theone with the guy with the frozen
face, which is really crazy.
It's not just his beard, it alsolooks like his skin might be
(50:56):
frozen as well.
If you want to check those out,they are on the website.
So go to Noordinarymonday.comand look for the episode page.
You also find stuff on oursocials.
Um, we are on Instagram,LinkedIn, Facebook, and a bunch
of others as well.
Next week we are leaving theArctic behind and heading to
California.
My guest is Christy Warren, aparamedic and firefighter who
(51:20):
spent 25 years saving people andracing into burning buildings.
But later she found herselffacing an even tougher battle
with PTSD.
Her story of struggle andrecovery is incredibly raw,
powerful, and just really,really inspiring.
So subscribe now so you won'tmiss out on the episode.
If you'd like to share your owncareer story with us, we'd love
(51:42):
to hear from you.
Get in touch via our socials, oryou can email hello h l o at
noordinarymonday.com, or you cansimply use the Submit Your Story
page on our website.
And if you enjoyed this episode,please do two very, very quick
things for us.
Just click five stars and maybewrite a review, and the other
(52:02):
one's just tell a friend.
You know, it uh it really helpsus grow the show, attract more
amazing guests, and inspires newlisteners.
And that's it.
This show is produced, hosted,and edited by me, Chris Barron.
Thank you so much for listeningand have a great Monday,
everyone.
Greenland.
A frozen expanse of ice andendless horizons.
Majestic and utterly merciless.
For nearly a month, SueStockdale and her small team had
battled across this vast icecabin.
Skiing with a sledge as heavy asa person with a relentless cold
that never seen an end.
(00:23):
And then on day 24, the stormarrived.
With it, we came a savage wind,tearing down from the high point
of the ice cabinet.
It's so powerful, it literallyripped the air from your mouth.
SPEAKER_01 (00:36):
You know when you dive into a pool and you hold
your breath?
It was rather like that, justdiving outside into this
dreadful environment, holding mybreath, and then breathing when
I get into the other tent.
And now you think, oh mygoodness, what happens if this
tent collapses?
There is gonna be no way we cansurvive him in that weather.
SPEAKER_02 (00:57):
For 36 hours, their survival wasn't so much a
physical battle, but a mentalone.
And when the storm finallypassed, Sue carried with her a
lesson that would shape the restof her life.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
I think I discovered depths of resilience that I
didn't know I had.
SPEAKER_02 (01:59):
My guest today has pushed herself into some of the
harshest and most unforgivingenvironments on Earth.
From skiing across the Greenlandice cap to becoming the first
British woman to reach themagnetic North Pole.
Sue Stockdale is an adventurer,author, and speaker whose
expeditions have revealed justhow much you discover about
(02:20):
yourself when you're pushed tothe limit and beyond.
But she doesn't just leave thoselessons on the ice.
Today she works with CEOs andleaders across the world,
helping them develop the sameadventurous mindset that kept
her alive in the Arctic.
And as you heard in thatopening, her big story takes us
to Greenland, where a violentstorm left her and her team
(02:41):
fighting for their lives insidea small tent, with nothing but
their strength of will to carrythem through.
So sit back as we go behind thescenes and find out what it
takes to build a career inadventure and exploration.
You're listening to No OrdinaryMonday?
Let's get into the show.
(03:04):
All right.
Sue Stockdale, welcome to thepodcast.
How are you doing today?
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
I'm great, Chris.
Lovely to speak to you.
SPEAKER_02 (03:11):
It's always lovely to have another fellow Scott on
the end of the line, I have tosay.
Yeah.
Well yours is yours is muchstronger than mine, as mine's
been diluted over the years, butyou've managed to retain yours,
(03:33):
which is fabulous.
So the other thing that I thinkis really interesting is looking
into you, is that you actuallydipped a toe into kind of my
career a little bit in the senseof the TV world with a couple of
things.
But the one that stood out to mewas one on Channel 4 called
Superhumans.
And the reason is because Iactually made a show called
(03:54):
Superhumans as one of my firstever TV projects.
And it sounds it ironically, Iwas like, oh my god, it's the
same thing.
But I was like, no, I didn'twork with Sue back then.
I would have recognized it.
But um I did one for the BBC umway back in Scotland.
So um but yeah, so just tell mea little bit about how how that
all came about.
SPEAKER_01 (04:11):
Yeah, that was a fantastic program.
I I was invited to participatein it.
It was uh 10 of us to, you know,in so in in so-called uh terms
of the television to see who isthe most superhuman person.
Really, it was to make sciencemore appealing to the general
public.
And we were taken through 12different tests.
So imagine yourself turning upat a venue on a given day and
(04:34):
taken into a room and then told,okay, you're going to stand on a
150-foot platform, your anklestied up on a bungee cord,
potentially doing a bungee jump,and you've got to keep your
heart rate as low as possible.
Oh, and by the way, you'recompeting against somebody else.
SPEAKER_02 (04:50):
Oh my God.
Well, I have to apologizebecause it would have been
someone exactly like me devisingthose sorts of experiments and
having great glee at watching,oh my God, this is this is
great.
SPEAKER_01 (05:01):
Well, one of the things that was quite funny,
Chris, and I think you'llprobably identify with this, is
when we were doing thisfearlessness test, and I have a
fear of heights, and I had putthat on the form that we were
all to fill in at the start ofthe whole programme, you know,
it's sort of details aboutyourself.
And they asked the question,what's your greatest fear?
Well, I am always honest when Ifill in forms, so I put fear uh
heights.
(05:21):
And then speaking to the othercontestants later, they're like,
Surely you didn't tell them thetruth, Sue.
So there I was pitched againstin this fearlessness test, 150
feet off the ground.
I was pitched against afirefighter.
Now, you know, he's used togoing up on those turntable
ladders, and and the and the thescientist that had devised the
test, uh, along with all thecamera crew before we went up,
(05:43):
said, Okay, Sue, uh, you know,what's your strategy?
What and the other guy, what'syour strategy?
And he shrugged his shouldersand went, Strategy.
I don't need a strategy.
I do this all the time.
unknown (05:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:53):
And I said, Oh, I'm going to use visualization, a
technique I know from myathletics background.
Hmm.
So all the camera crew werebetting on who was going to win
between the two of us.
And every single one of them beton the firefighter and the
scientist bet on me because Ihad a strategy and and I you
know had said aboutvisualization.
And of course, guess who won?
SPEAKER_02 (06:14):
Amazing.
So wait, so that meant thatbasically like you had heart
rate monitors, and whoeverwhoever's heart rate raised to a
certain level, their bungee jumpwould like commence, they would
be dropped.
Yes.
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (06:25):
You had a hundred, I think it was like a 500
heartbeats.
So you know, it was counting whoreaches 500 heart heartbeats the
quack the quickest, which meansyou're the most anxious.
Yeah.
And those that can keep theirheart rate lowest would won't
have to do the bungee jump.
So um using that visualizationtechnique helped me to keep my
heart rate low and helped me tobeat the firefighter.
SPEAKER_02 (06:48):
Brilliant.
That must have been a greatmoment.
Well, I think that's a um agreat way to introduce.
I mean, um, obviously uh you areprobably best known as the first
British woman to reach themagnetic north pole, umst other
um endeavours and achievements.
But um I guess what I like to doat the start is just, you know,
(07:09):
imagine you're at a party orsomething like that, and someone
comes up to you and says, Oh,hey, what do you do?
Um, what do you do for a living?
You know, um what what's yoursort of stock answer usually?
SPEAKER_01 (07:21):
Uh well it depends on what sort of party it was,
but sometimes if I'm feeling ina jolly mood, I'd probably say,
Oh, I'm an adventurer.
SPEAKER_00 (07:28):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (07:29):
And then that normally gets uh, oh, what does
that mean?
Or, you know, what what's adventwhat sort of adventures do you
do?
And then I might talk aboutpolar adventures and uh
challenging myself in differentways, exploring the unknown.
And then that normally gets intoa whole conversation about uh
how other people, how they'rehow they have a level of comfort
or not with exploring theunknown.
(07:51):
And actually that has got me abig bit of business as a as a in
my uh life as an entrepreneur,where I did have this type of
conversation with somebody, andwhen I said to them, So what do
you do to take risks in yourjob?
And there was a long silence,and they said, Oh, yes, I
probably need to do more ofthat.
And then about a week later,after we'd swapped business
cards, they contacted me and uhI ended up doing a big piece of
(08:14):
work for their organization todo with helping them to be more
uh lead, you know, be betterleaders.
But that came as a result ofthat kind of introduction at a
party.
So uh it's a brilliant,sometimes a good opener.
SPEAKER_02 (08:25):
Yeah, it's a great opener.
I mean I mean it's interestingbecause when people hear, you
know, Polar Explorer orAdventurer or something like
that, they might think, oh,that's isn't that just like a
it's like an outdoor hobby orlike some sort of thing like
that.
Like, but at what point like dhas it become a career for you,
like to become an adventurer orpolar explorer?
Because there has to be thatdistinction between something
(08:47):
that people just do outside ofit could be a lawyer or
something that goes and doespolar stuff, but this is your
career.
SPEAKER_01 (08:54):
Yeah, I I I guess it took a turn towards being a
career, Chris.
But in uh when I was in my latetwenties, and I I had had a I
was working in a corporateorganization, doing that kind of
job that you know many people dothese days, corporate training
and development, getting a nicesalary, pension scheme, company
car, so on.
The whole, the whole uh, thewhole thing.
(09:16):
And uh I I just found I wasn'tfulfilled.
I I it wasn't there wassomething missing.
And so I um I left that job, Igot an opportunity, I saw an
advert in the newspaper, and Iended up going to work for a
year in a war zone with theUnited United Nations.
Now, this was a a qualityassurance job, so it was there
(09:37):
to to help the civilianworkforce improve their
efficiency that were supportingthe military as well.
But it was uh that was like anadventure for me, and that's why
I took the job in the end.
I said to myself, logic says onpaper this doesn't make sense at
all.
Why would you leave all of thiskind of familiarity to go into
the unknown?
And then I used my gut feel andmy intuition, and it said this
(10:00):
is just the thing to do.
So you want an adventure, here'san adventure.
SPEAKER_02 (10:06):
You know, to sort of go, it doesn't make sense to to
do this thing that's reallyrisky.
Um why why at what point do youthink you kind of learn to trust
that kind of gut instinct andand and follow it?
SPEAKER_01 (10:20):
Ooh, great question, Chris.
Uh fairly early on.
Um well, I'll I'll give you abit of the back of the backstory
that probably led also to thisthinking about being uh
adventuresome, is sadly when Iwas 14 years old, my mum died
suddenly.
She was in her early 50s.
And you know, in in most onedoesn't expect to to pass away
(10:43):
at that at that kind of age.
And so I think as a young girl,I got into my thinking, well, A,
life could be short, and B,therefore, if that could be a
reality for any of us, uh,surely we need to make the most
of the time we're here on earth.
And so there was something aboutmaximizing, I didn't call it
this when I was 14, butmaximizing one's potential,
(11:05):
exploring what one's capable of.
And um so that I was kind ofdriving us as well, is how often
do you ever get an opportunityto go and work in a war zone and
see what that reality is like?
unknown (11:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:20):
Now, maybe most of the listeners listening to this,
Chris, are thinking, well, I'dnever want to find out the
answer to that.
But if you put on that backdropof what I just explained about
uh, you know, life is short,life could be short, so take
those opportunities, then Ithink that is quite a pr a
pivotal point to then drivetowards that.
(11:40):
And I think then having done ayear there, having survived,
having learned a lot andrealized the reality of what
that was like, that gave me ahuge amount of confidence.
Because if I can do that and itworks out, then what else can I
do?
unknown (11:56):
Brilliant.
SPEAKER_02 (11:57):
Um so that was the kind of point where you because
I what I find fascinating aboutyour I mean, we go into lots of
careers on this podcast, youknow, we've got paramedics and
you know, scientists and stuff,but this is not if you're at a
school career sphere, like thisis not typically one that you
would find sort of likeengineer, doctor, lawyer, polar
(12:18):
explorer.
I mean, at what point did youthink like this is a viable
career?
Was it when you were in in thatwar zone kind of thought, this
is this is it, like I can make aI can make a career, I can make
a living out of doing this.
SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
Not uh exactly.
And and by the way, when I whenI would be at those career fairs
when I was a young girl, whatwas going on in my mind, Chris,
was I wanted to be a a cook onan oil rig.
So I think there was an elementof adventure even back then.
SPEAKER_02 (12:49):
Oh wow, that's fascinating.
So you were you know a girl inschool, you know, like in their
teenage years, and you thought,I want to be a cook on an oil
rig.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:58):
Oh my god, where did where did that idea come from?
SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
Uh well, I like eating.
So that's a cookbook, maybe.
Um and so so I don't know whereit came from.
I don't know anybody that workson an oil rig or anything to do
with the the oil industry in inScotland.
But somehow it's uh there wassomething that appealed to me
about that kind of adventuringinto the unknown.
And so, to me, in a way, ifthere's anything, that those
(13:23):
young people, when they'redeveloping ideas for the future,
is if the biggest thing theyneed to foster is curiosity and
imagination and possibility,because then that opens up the
doors for thinking about maybeadventurer being on that career
list, and then and it was goingto that work in the war zone
that for me was that door openerinto beginning to then think,
(13:44):
oh, I could do something moreadventurous.
And next after that came theNorth Pole opportunity, and so
that was the and that was reallythe the the big uh game changer
in terms of being an adventurerand saying I can do adventurous
things in my life and uh earn aliving as well.
SPEAKER_02 (14:01):
Because again, that that is a huge that's a huge
step for someone to be able to,you know, to have an expedition.
Like I mean, I I really want togo into that actually at this
point, is just to sort of thatwhole process of because you
know, being the first woman toreach magnetic fourth pole,
that's no small achievement.
But I'm sure the journey to getthere must have been long and
(14:22):
arduous.
So just take us through that alittle bit.
SPEAKER_01 (14:24):
Yeah, well, I I saw again, I saw this advert in the
newspaper.
So I'm a great advocate ofreading newspapers and seeing
things.
SPEAKER_00 (14:30):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
Um I saw this advert in the newspaper and it said uh
wanted 10 novice Arcticexplorers.
And there was a picture of of uhyou know the Arctic and polar
bear, probably, and there weretwo qualifications to go on this
expedition to the magnetic northpole, two two sort of things you
had to have to apply.
One the ability to work in ateam, and that's you know, that
(14:52):
that sounds very glib, butactually that was really an
important point is you're notthere as an individual, you're
there as part of a team andsupporting other people as well.
And then the second was theability to raise£15,000,$25,000,
uh, to pay for your place.
Now, you know, I had no idea howto raise that amount of money.
I probably could have bought ahouse if I'd had that amount of
(15:12):
money back in the mid-90s.
Um, but I had a mindset and Isaid to myself, if it's meant to
be, I'll find a way.
So I just said that.
I just said, and what's what'sthe worst that can happen if I
send off for details?
Nothing.
So I sent off for theinformation, and then a brochure
arrived back in the post, and itwas all glossy pictures of men,
(15:34):
and on the front of the brochureit said, Are you man enough for
the ultimate challenge?
SPEAKER_02 (15:40):
This is the 90s, by the way, just to remind
everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (15:43):
Yes, so maybe that wouldn't appear today, but
nonetheless, isn't it sometimeswe're as driven by a I'll prove
you wrong motivation as a let'ssee what's possible?
And it and I thought, how darethey think men can only go on
this expedition?
You know, I want to go as well.
I didn't know where the magneticnorth pole was, but I thought
it's somewhere cold and white.
(16:04):
This sounds challenging, thissounds like an adventure, I'm
going to apply.
And hundreds of people, ofcourse, applied.
And then there was a wholeseries of selection tests to
narrow down the final team of10.
So we did physical tests, mentaltests, uh, lots of different
things.
And even although I got myplace, which was I was only
confirmed my place in theJanuary, the expedition was
(16:26):
happening in the April, and thenyou would have to come up with
the money.
SPEAKER_02 (16:29):
Brilliant.
And then the actual expeditionitself, you were one of how many
in the team?
SPEAKER_01 (16:35):
There were 10 of us in the team that were novices.
So there were eight men andmyself and a Swedish woman,
Susanna, and then there werefour experienced explorers.
So there was a quite a big teamof us, 14 out on the ice.
SPEAKER_02 (16:46):
And and just what was that experience like?
Was it easier or harder than youthought it was going to be?
Like just put us in the sort ofthe uh that sort of adventure.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
Well, imagine that you've never done any
cross-country skiing before, andyou and you arrive in northern
Canada and you're given somecross-country skis, and then
you've got a sledge that'sweighing the weight of an
average person, and you'rehaving to drag that across ice
that looks like rubble in abuilding site.
So we're not talking about anice rink, smooth ice, and you
know, wonderful, sunny, lovelyconditions.
(17:19):
We're talking about uh a frozenArctic Ocean, and with the
currents of the water, it pushesthe ice together, and then you
get these giant lumps of ice,and you have to travel across
that with your skis on.
So you're not really skiing.
Your skis are there, yeah, withyour sled too.
So it's physically and mentallydemanding.
You know, uh, we were skiingsometimes 10, 12 hours a day.
(17:40):
So it is it is not an easyexperience, but at the end of it
it was very rewarding.
SPEAKER_02 (17:46):
Aaron Powell For how many how many days did it take
you from from start to start?
SPEAKER_01 (17:49):
We took a month, a month to ski.
350 miles, five hundred andforty kilometers to every day,
ten to twelve hours on the move.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:00):
Oh my god.
But I that that can I mean for alot of people listening, just
putting people in that positionof being one of a team of ten,
some some most of them novices,doing something that is uh very
difficult physically andmentally.
Like you say the what's theworst thing that can happen?
The worst thing that can happenis failure, you know, and how do
you uh failure in the sense of,you know, you just cannot keep
(18:23):
up with the team, you know?
And uh how do you personally,how do you deal with failure?
Has that sort of have you got atechnique for it?
Has it changed over the years?
It must be something you've gotto overcome on any well, not
just expeditions, but in any anysort of thing you do.
SPEAKER_01 (18:38):
Yeah, it's a it's a it's an important and uh uh
salient point to re refer to,Chris.
I y I think what I learned aboutfailure, well, I learned about
failure in lots of differentparts of my life.
Yeah.
Particularly, I I used tocompete in athletics uh pr
competitively, so I ran for uhultimately ran for my country.
(19:00):
And I used to go out onto theathletics track every day, or
you know, I was training everyday, maybe running in the
streets or on the track, buttraining every day, and I
learned then that you know you syou can sometimes fade, uh, you
know, you lose your energyquicker than you imagine,
somebody's gonna be faster thanyou.
But then the next time thenyou're better than them.
(19:21):
And so never giving up was whatI learned from training, to just
keep going no matter how bad youfeel, and you'll get through it.
The power that other people canhelp you through that, so you're
not there on your own, you'vegot kind of that energy of
others around you, and not andnot to be afraid to take failure
as learning because that's theonly way I ever improved on my
(19:43):
athletics times was to fail, notdo a time I wanted to do or
something, but then I wouldlearn and I would try again.
So I don't see I don't usefailure as a word that's uh
negative.
Failure is part of growth, andthe more we fail, the m faster
we learn, the quicker we will beable to develop.
SPEAKER_02 (20:03):
Yeah, it's just a step on the journey.
Yeah.
I mean, just you mentioned therehow important uh the team that
you surround yourself with, youknow, particularly I mean
obviously in again we we're sortof both talking in a expedition
sense, but also in a you know,maybe even a corporate or a
business sense.
But talking about how muchenergy you can derive from
(20:24):
others, do you think you wouldhave been able to do that
expedition solo?
No.
Given the skills that you Imean, it could put the skills
aside, like you needed the team,did you?
You couldn't do that alone.
SPEAKER_01 (20:36):
Yeah.
Well, I I I I was quick to sayno.
No, because I wouldn't want todo it on my own, first of all.
Yes, I probably could do it if Iwas forced into it.
But then the number one thingwould be what's the compelling
enough reason to want to do it.
And that having purpose is sucha huge thing.
And all of us in our North Poleteam had a combined desire and
(20:58):
purpose to get to the NorthPole.
You know, that is hugelyenergizing and it is hugely
magnetic.
I mean, we're going to themagnetic pole, but you know,
there's a there's a there's adraw towards something that you
want to accomplish.
And that that is quite animportant ingredient in keeping
you moving forward.
SPEAKER_02 (21:15):
Aaron Ross Powell There's something I've always
wondered about these kind oftrips, big expeditions, you
know, going either going to theNorth Pole or transecting the
Sahara or whatever it might be.
You know, you talk aboutpurpose.
I mean, was there a particulargoal in mind for that
expedition, or was it justsomeone that said, I I have this
dream.
I'm gonna put together a teamand we're gonna do it.
(21:37):
But there's no particular reasonwe're gonna do it.
We're just gonna do it becauseit's a challenging thing to do.
SPEAKER_01 (21:42):
Well, there were a couple of a couple of reasons,
Chris.
One is it was part of whatyou've just described, yes.
It now today, no you can prettymuch go anywhere in the world
and put down money and you'llhave somebody that can guide you
and take you there.
That is the world of adventurethat we live in today.
Thirty-odd years ago, thatdidn't exist.
(22:02):
The only people that wereexploring were people who were
kind of professional explorersat the time, or that is what
that is what they were doing.
It wasn't the the norm for let'scall it a novice, an ordinary
person to go into an extremeenvironment.
And so David Hempelman Adams,our expedition leader, said, I
wonder if that's possible totake people who haven't got all
(22:23):
of this experience andbackground and adventure and
mountaineering and so on, totake them on an expedition.
So that was kind of hiscuriosity, then advertising for
the team.
But um, you know, along withthat, then we were doing
scientific doing some collectingscientific data for the
University of Ottawa to trackthe location of the pole.
(22:45):
So that was an additionalpurpose, but it wasn't the
reason for the expedition.
The main and obviously once wewere successful, then you know
it was like, oh yes, well, wecan do this.
And it and if you look back inthe re history records after our
expedition, a lot of otherexpeditions followed on, where
it was groups of all women oryou know, lots of different
other kinds of groups of novicesbegan to do expeditions.
(23:08):
But we were the kind of pioneersin that going to the North Pole.
SPEAKER_02 (23:12):
Brill, yeah.
I mean, in this sort of middlepart of the chat, I always love
uh guests to sort of share themost, you know, standout
experience of their entirecareer, you know, whether it's
the most unforgettable, thescariest, the most
death-defying.
Um, I wonder whether you couldtake us through.
I know you've done so much, andthere's like lots of things to
(23:34):
choose from, but what what whatis it for you, would you say?
SPEAKER_01 (23:37):
Well well, if we think about risk taking, and
that's what adventuring's allabout, Chris.
You know, the the ultimate riskthat one takes takes is with
one's life.
And so for me, the the theclosest I've come to death is
probably the most memorable forthe wrong reasons experience.
And this was back in 1999.
I was on an expedition withthree others skiing across the
(24:00):
Greenland Ice Cap.
Now we're that's that's thetoughest expedition I've done
out of all the ones I've doneover the years because the
terrain is we we were skiingtwo-thirds uphill from from sea
level to 8,000 feet and backdown again over the course of a
month.
And also that that draggingreally heavy sledges were
(24:20):
completely self-sufficient, andthe temperatures were really
cold.
So put all of those factorstogether.
It's physically, emotionallydemanding.
A small team, you know, you'rereally just reliant on one
another.
SPEAKER_02 (24:33):
And we got you leading this team?
SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
No, we were there, wasn't really an a leader.
We were all kind of it was itwas almost like a collective.
One person had to have the ideato organize it.
They all we all got involved andwe all had varying levels of
knowledge and experience andskills.
So there was quite a distributedleadership uh amongst the team.
So we were we'd been in thisexpedition now for 24 days.
(24:57):
So uh, you know, we we knew eachother pretty well by this point.
SPEAKER_02 (25:01):
We're pretty much a good idea.
But did you at the start wereyou were you pretty new to each
other on day one?
Or did you kind of have a youknow, you you kind of
familiaricize familiariseyourself with each other
beforehand?
SPEAKER_01 (25:12):
Uh we were probably pretty new to each other.
I knew the the the the Germanguy who organized it.
I had uh spoken to him a coupleof times.
I'd I'd met him with somefriends of mine in a bar in
Chile two years earlier, and andthat's a whole other story about
even just that kind ofserendipitous meeting when you
hear a non-Spanish uh voicehaving a conversation.
(25:34):
Um, so so he you know he waskind of an acquaintance, a
contact, knew I did polarexpeditions, had invited me on
the team and said I've got acouple of Norwegians as well
that are coming along.
So the four of us on the team, Ididn't know the Norwegians, and
I barely knew the German guythat was organizing it.
SPEAKER_00 (25:50):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (25:50):
But I I knew of his experience in expeditions and
he'd been very successful.
So there's a bit of that kind oftrack record and credibility.
We didn't know each other wellat the start, but obviously
after 24 days, we're knowingeach other a lot better.
And um this particular day, Ithink we'd skied 40 kilometers.
So what's that?
(26:11):
About 24 miles, something likethat.
In temperatures minus 20Celsius, something like that.
Yeah, the relentless uh wind inyour face very often, the
extreme cold, it's physicallyand mentally demanding, and just
sapping, sapping all yourcapability to make decisions, to
(26:33):
think clearly.
And by the end of this day, wewe every day up until that
point, we had built a snow wall.
So it's a bit like a wind break,blocks of snow and ice.
Imagine like half an igloo.
SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:45):
You build that to to have some sort of protection
when you pitch your tent,knowing that if the wind gets
stronger, you've got someprotection there.
Now we have done this for twentytwenty-four days, and there's
never been any strong wind inthe evening.
SPEAKER_02 (27:00):
Yeah.
And just to just clarify, youwere you building one tent for
the four of you or individualtents?
SPEAKER_01 (27:06):
There were two tents, so two two-person tents.
So we had to build two snowwalls and put pitch our two
tents.
And we all and every day wewould sort of share with
somebody else.
So we never just shared with thesame person all the time.
We used to switch around to sortof you know avoid clicks
happening.
Um so we were we were exhaustedon this given day.
(27:27):
I'm sure that you know, I knowwe we half-heartedly built that
snow wall, just thinking, oh,well, we've done this every
other day.
I can't wait to get in thattent.
I'm so tired.
You know, when you do somethingwith not a lot of energy and
commitment.
And so we dived into the tents,and uh the the Norwegian and
(27:47):
myself, the woman, we were inone tent, the guys were in the
other that time, they were doingthe cooking, and we would
normally all meet in one tentand eat together.
And we're lying in our sleepingbags, exhausted, and we're
waiting for them to shout for usto to go through and eat food.
And it's much, much longer thannormal.
We're like, Where is it?
Why aren't they telling us?
(28:07):
But meanwhile, we're hearingthis noise getting stronger and
stronger outside, the noise ofthe wind.
And they were they were callingto us, in fact, but we couldn't
hear them.
And eventually then one of themcomes to the end of our tent,
unzips the door, sticks his headin and says, Come and get your
food and bring your sleepingbags.
And we're thinking, What's hegoing on about?
(28:28):
So, in those few steps betweenone tent and the next, the
strength of the wind outside,you know, imagine um really
strong wind, um horrendous, notquite hurricane levels, but you
know, really strong wind.
Uh I had I felt it was likediving into a swimming pool.
You know, when you dive into apool and you hold your breath
(28:50):
under the water and then youwait until you come up and you
can breathe again.
It was rather like that, justdiving outside into this
dreadful environment, holding mybreath and then breathing when I
get into the other tent.
Oh, whew, I'm out of that wind,it's horrendous.
But now I'm thinking, well, hangon a minute, this is the wrong
way around, isn't it?
That that we should be able tobreathe outside.
(29:12):
And what's going to happen ifthose winds get stronger?
Our snowball will probablycollapse and our tent might blow
away.
So this is what was goingthrough my mind.
And we're all we all get in thetent together and then start to
say, This must be a storm.
And uh one of the others says,Well, remember those Norwegians
that we met, because we'd met aNorwegian team a few days
(29:34):
earlier that had come theopposite direction from us,
they'd gone from east, uh eastto west, we were going west to
east, and they had told us thatat this similar point, which is
a high point on the ice cap,they had encountered a storm,
winds so cold, uh winds sostrong temperatures so cold that
two of their dogs had died.
They had they had dog team withthem.
(29:56):
So, you know, you have I hadthis in my imagination.
Oh no, this is a sort of Ofstorm where their dogs died, it
must this is going to behorrendous.
And now we're four of us sittingin this tiny two-person tent,
the wind shaking all around us,making the tent shudder, and now
you think, Oh my goodness, whathappens if this tent collapses?
(30:19):
There is going to be no way wecan survive out in that weather.
And there's no protection,there's no people, there's no
nothing around us for miles andmiles and miles.
SPEAKER_02 (30:30):
Jeez.
So just to just to clarify,like, even I think just because
it's such an important point toemphasize, like standing
outside, you're outside and it'sblowing a gale, and you can't
breathe.
You're literally, you cannotsuck in air, or the maybe it's
the wind is so strong it'sliterally pulling the air from
your lungs.
SPEAKER_01 (30:47):
Yeah, yeah.
It's that you maybe maybe someof the listeners have been out
on a windy day in theircountries and and they've had
that sort of sensation whereyou're just you're trying to
catch your breath.
It's so strong, the wind.
And so that's what it was likeout there in the Arctic.
And um wow.
That's that that's it was it didmake me suddenly think, oh my
(31:08):
goodness, you know, that pointabout life could be short.
The wind over me had suddenlygot a lot a lot shorter.
And uh and the four of us allkind of managed that uh those
moments and those hours.
It ended up being 36 hours.
We were stuck in that tent,waiting for the storm to
(31:28):
subside.
Um that it did make it's a long36 hours, let me tell you.
SPEAKER_02 (31:34):
Well, I guess on on an expedition like that, I think
maybe people don't realise thatthat you don't have a lot of
room for redundancy.
You don't overpack, you don't,you know, you have you go, I
need this much food for thismany days, and it's you know,
you don't pack extra daysbecause you've got to carry it.
And you guys are stuck in thesame spot having to feed
yourselves, but then you've gota ration and you've got like,
(31:57):
you know, mental stress to dealwith and all that.
Like, how did you how did youmanage that?
SPEAKER_01 (32:02):
Yeah, well well, I think remember that what goes in
must come out if we eatanything, Chris.
SPEAKER_02 (32:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:08):
From a from a practicality perspective.
So you don't really want towell, you couldn't it was too s
the wind was really strong forany of us to go outside.
One of the Norwegians, he didbrave it to just even get out
the door and stop our tentgetting completely covered over
with snow, so we wouldn't evenbe able to escape.
So he went out and uh he wasonly out for a few moments and
(32:29):
he came back and his face wascompletely covered in ice, his
beard was all frosty.
I have a I have a photograph ofhim somewhere where it reminds
me every time I see it.
And and you know, he was thebrave one to go outside and try
and make sure that our tentcould be protected as best it
could be.
But the rest of us were insidejust thinking, you know, oh my
goodness, how are we going tosurvive this?
(32:50):
And it wasn't that kind of like,oh Chris, I'm so scared, what
are we going to do?
There was none of that sort ofcommunication together.
One person actually sort ofretreated into wearing their
headphones, and we didn't havemuch battery power to be able to
ever use headphones for music.
This was the old Sony Walkmandays, but they had they had a
little bit of of power, so theykind of put their headphones on
(33:11):
and just listened to music.
And another one was thinkingabout well, how much rations do
we have and how many days, andsort of strategizing about what
ifs.
Of course, the other Norwegianwas going out to worry about the
tent, and I was just alwaysthinking about what we will get
to eat when we survive this.
Because that's the thing, that'sthe thing that always keeps me
(33:31):
happy is uh you know, lookingforward to some next tasty meal.
SPEAKER_02 (33:36):
The next meal.
Oh my god.
So I mean just to just to touchon that, as you said, 36 hours
is a long time to hold one'sbodily functions.
Is is that what you guys did?
Or did you did you go out, didyou have to take a big breath of
air and then try and go outsidequickly because you've got
layers and layers of clothes on,or did you sit in the corner and
try and like, you know, relieveyourself in a water bottle?
(33:56):
Like how do because I've been onexpeditions before where the
toilet situation is obviouslyvery important.
We're nowhere near a functioningtoilet, so you've got to manage
those things suitably.
But what do you guys end updoing?
SPEAKER_01 (34:11):
Yes.
Well, I uh you know, it itagain, reality it's somewhat
different for men and women.
Men can release themselves intoa bottle or something like that
a little bit more easily than awoman can.
In in a tent, there's two twoends to the tent, obviously.
And there was the one side thatwe would always use as our exit
in and out when if we did goout.
But on the other, at the otherend, so the non-entrance end,
(34:32):
you still have the kind of spacebetween the fly sheet outer and
the inner, and that would be thethe effectively our our toilet
space.
But you know, you're it's it'sit's like having a thin curtain
between you and three otherpeople.
I mean, there is no privacyreally, and uh I think most we
hardly even ate anything.
(34:52):
It was more about just havinghot drinks occasionally to keep
us warm.
But if you eat something, you'reeating into those rations that
you talked about, and you stillhave to ski the same distance
afterwards, so you don't reallywant to eat much food at all.
So it's a bit of a a bit of uh atough existence lying there in
your sleeping bag.
Now it's not even dark, it's24-hour daylight, so you're just
(35:15):
lying in the in the light.
That's the time where yourimagination can run riot, you
can catastrophize.
It's so important to keep one'smind focused on the possible the
things that are working, the thethings that we can do, as
opposed to, well, what if thisand what if that, and you know,
(35:36):
I'm gonna die here?
Because that's not a road I wantto think about in those sorts of
situations.
It's about being reallypractical.
SPEAKER_02 (35:45):
It's really amazing how you describe everyone's
different reaction to being inthat situation.
You've got one who's going,Great, we've got this many
rations for this many days,you've got the other guy outside
trying to be physical, solvingthe problem, you've got one
who's just burying their head inthe sand, potentially, with the
music, and you've got you that'skind of going, you know, trying
to, again, visualization, tryingto sort of project, you know, um
(36:07):
useful thoughts that keep yougoing.
But I guess of all of those uhsituations, I guess everyone's
got a slightly different way ofhandling it.
And I guess how do you I guessyeah, how how do you know how
it's going to be for you whenyou get to that kind of point?
You know, how do you managethat?
SPEAKER_01 (36:28):
Uh I didn't I didn't know.
I didn't know.
Yeah.
And um I I think I discovereddiscovered depths of resilience
that I didn't know I had, evenin that moment of doing nothing
effectively.
And there is, you know, I amquite an activist, as you
probably have worked out alreadyfrom the the things we've been
(36:50):
talking about so far, Chris.
I do like doing things, butsometimes you can't do your way
out of a situation.
You can't just act, becauseacting is not what's required.
And in those, in that particularsituation, out there on the ice,
out there in the coldtemperatures, the the acting
that you're doing is managingyour mind.
unknown (37:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:13):
You're doing on the inside, not on the outside.
And and that probably againreinforces to me so much that
that's why I spend a lot of timethese days in my my job helping
other people to develop thatadventurous mindset.
And it's exactly to those pointsthat if they're a leader in a
business, if they're anentrepreneur, whatever they're
(37:34):
doing, is that are they aware ofwhat their mind is telling them
and how are they in control oftheir mind, or is a mind in
control of them?
And and that's what I had totake control of in that tent is
I'm not gonna do anything else.
I'm just gonna take control ofmy mind and focus on the
thoughts that are gonna beserving me here.
And I learned that in themoment, I think.
(37:55):
Not there was no training forthat beforehand.
SPEAKER_02 (37:58):
That's amazing.
Because I guess that's what youtook from that experience.
It's kind of the one thingthat's you know um sort of
allowed you to progress as a asa human or or whatever you want
to call it.
Uh it's amazing.
Um I'm kind of curious, uh isthere because I've had this on
similar expeditions before aswell.
Is there a single visual image?
(38:18):
Maybe it's a smell, maybe it's asound.
What what really is somethingthat really sort of stands out
as a something seared into yourmemory from that, from that 36
hours?
SPEAKER_01 (38:30):
It was that it's the visual picture of the the
Norwegian uh coming back in fromoutside and it and and
completely uh ice on his face,ice on his beard, ice on his
eyebrows, but still a smile onhis face.
SPEAKER_02 (38:47):
Oh brilliant.
And he was only out there forwhat a few Yeah, a few minutes,
like not even five minutes.
SPEAKER_01 (38:52):
Not even five minutes.
SPEAKER_02 (38:53):
Oh man, that's tough.
I can't believe that.
Oh amazing.
Um Brill.
Um so I mean I said all theexperience, including that one.
Um you're talking about, and Ithink you've touched on it
there, is that all of these umexpeditions that you do, the
experiences that you undertake,they're all designed to push,
(39:15):
you know, push yourself, pushyour team members beyond what
you think you're capable of.
And again, we kind of just foundit there in one example, but you
found resilience in one thing.
But why is it always importantthat we're pushing ourselves
beyond that sort of comfortline?
What what are we finding on theother side of that line?
SPEAKER_01 (39:34):
We're finding what it means to be alive, in my
view.
Uh I think if we if we uhreflect back to as well,
prehistoric days, but you know,early, early human beings,
that's what we've had to do tosurvive.
Uh I was reading a reallyinteresting book recently, The
Explorer's Gene.
(39:55):
And and that's what the thepremise of that book is, that
you know, as human beings, weare built to explore.
And and the the contrast thatthe author makes in that book is
explore and exploit.
So we have to get over the hump,so to speak, get out get up to
the top of the hill, you know,get over the the uh inertia to
make progress.
And then once we've found aplace, once we've developed
(40:18):
something new, we can are in aposition to exploit.
But it's to knowing when toexplore and when to exploit.
And and I kind of like that ideathat as human beings, uh, I
think we're actually very goodat exploiting in the Western
world today.
SPEAKER_02 (40:34):
Fair to say, yes, fair to say.
SPEAKER_01 (40:36):
In lots of different ways.
And I think we've lost a littlebit of that exploring.
So if I've got a if I've got acrusade to make, it's about
helping people to do more of theexploring.
SPEAKER_02 (40:46):
Brilliant.
Re-re kind of recapture,reignite that flame for doing
doing the thing that makes youuncomfortable, but ultimately
benefits you.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Um and you kind of mentioned acouple times already, um, your
you've got your expeditionexperiences, but that's
obviously fueled kind of likeanother asset or um facet of
(41:07):
your career.
Um, and I've noticed a lot withyou know, a lot of people that
do this adventure um stuff, theykind of move naturally into this
like coaching, leadershipmanagement, you know, working
with corporate sides of things.
Like, what is it uh because theboardroom or the office
environment is a very differentenvironment from being stuck
(41:28):
inside a tent, you know, insub-zero degrees in a near-death
experience.
Like they're opposite ends of aspectrum in some ways, but like
how are you connecting thosedots and I guess benefiting
people that may never go intothat situation, but using the
skills that you've learned thereto benefit them in their own
(41:49):
unique situations.
SPEAKER_01 (41:52):
The first thing that comes to my mind is that I did,
you know, my my career, as wetalked about, started in the
board, not in the boardroom, butin the corporate organization.
It started in the land ofbusiness.
And then it went intoadventuring, and then I thought,
how can I bring that adventuringback into the world of business?
So I think I I'm firm and verycomfortable in that environment.
(42:12):
The thing that connects bothChris is human beings.
So today, whether I'm sittingwith a CEO running a you know a
multi-million dollarorganization, or I'm sitting
with a person running a charity,or somebody that's aspirational,
looking to join, you know,starting out in their career,
I'm sitting in front of a humanbeing.
(42:33):
And that's how I try to show upas a human being.
And your listeners will get asense of that today with whether
they're thinking I am.
But and what I mean by that isjust being authentic, being
enough as you are, and knowingyes, you can grow and develop,
but actually there's something,there's a spark inside of each
of us, no matter what our levelof responsibility is and scale
of impact, that when you areseen, that will a person lights
(42:59):
up.
I always talk about likebringing out their brilliance,
and that's what I see.
That there's a there's packagingaround sitting with a CEO and
the the uh you know, theresponsibility they have and the
impact they have.
And sometimes they get out, theythey don't find a place to be a
human being.
And if they can sit in aconversation with me and they
and we've found a way to kind ofstrip back all of that packaging
(43:22):
that comes with the job, andthey get back to the essence of
just being a human being andgoing, Yeah, I don't know that.
Yeah, okay, maybe I could dothat, and uh or like, yeah, I
actually am proud that that'swhat what my values are,
whatever it is.
When they touch that connection,that that's what brings us all
together.
(43:43):
You know, we're back to ourexplore and exploit, explore
human beings and explorepotential.
And so that my quest to helppeople explore is how did they
explore themselves?
To survive, we've got to be ableto trust ourselves.
So, you know, in that moment inthe tent in the Arctic, I had to
trust myself and the team thatwe had the resources within all
(44:04):
of us to get through thatmoment.
So I I you know, we very often Ithink people have lost trust in
themselves.
They look to the internet, theylook to others, they they don't
find themselves in a positionwhere they have to be
self-reliant and say, you know,I I can do this, I can survive
this.
And so, so I think that if if Ican help bring that out of
(44:26):
somebody and they start tothink, oh, maybe I can sort of
explore my capability in adifferent way, then you know,
that's hugely satisfying for me.
And I think that's enough.
That that's the essence of whatit means to be a human being.
And like, what what better jobto have as an adventurer to
bring that out in other people?
I love what I do.
So I so yeah, adventure.
(44:48):
We can adventure everywhere, andI think it's about bringing the
the mindset that's gonna be ofmost value and most use to you
in those sort of contexts.
SPEAKER_02 (44:57):
Brill.
Um towards the end here, Ialways love to ask guests, um,
you know, for anyone who's gonnalisten to this, and I'm sure
people all walks of life, butwhat advice would you give to
people?
And I guess it's kind of likeno, actually, no, just I mean,
in terms of the building acareer and following in your
particular footsteps, you know,becoming an adventurer, stepping
(45:18):
outside your comfort zone, whatdoes it take to be successful in
that kind of space?
SPEAKER_01 (45:24):
Yeah.
Uh number one, curiosity.
So develop curiosity.
Because that's and curiosity isthe opposite of judgment.
You know, judgment serves ourbrains to make us make quick
decisions.
You know, we judge if we likesomething over something else
and we can make quick decisions.
But sometimes judgment limitsour opportunity to develop
(45:44):
curiosity.
So tr follow curiosity anddevelop that.
Uh be prepared to see failure aslearning because it, you know,
and and use it as I say, thequicker we fail, the quicker we
learn, the quicker we grow.
So see that as a process.
And then I think it's about uhdoing, taking action, as I said
(46:05):
at the start, small steps.
Seven days from now, you couldhave taken seven small steps,
you will have learned seventhings, you will have grown.
And then the next seven steps,what will they be?
In the next seven steps, youknow, unless you've got a
greenhouse, flowers have agrowing season, they will take a
time to go from a seed to aflower.
Change doesn't happen alwaysquickly, you know, or something
(46:27):
that we're striving for.
Despite what you might read inthe media, despite what you
might listen to, in successisn't instant.
And so, so just notunderstanding that that it
you're playing the long game.
Uh, you know, I was speaking toa friend of mine the other day
who said, I can't believe yougot 150 podcast episodes, Sue.
He said, That's testament tokeeping on, keeping on.
(46:48):
He said, I could never do that.
I said, Well, yeah, you could ifyou want to.
And so that that's the thing, ittakes time.
And so those are just some ofthe lessons that I think can be
applied to any career ordecision or activity that people
want to try.
SPEAKER_02 (47:01):
I think that's it's good advice, but it's really um
it's so difficult to followsometimes, particularly for
young kids in this day and age.
You've got instantgratification, you've got a an
environment, a digitalenvironment, a cyber environment
that moves at a million miles asecond.
You know, is there you know uhany techniques that you've kind
(47:26):
of given to people about how doyou actually just slow down and
go, it's okay, this takes time.
I can't rush this, be patient.
SPEAKER_01 (47:36):
Well, you know, I as you're saying that, Chris, the
question that's going through mymind is rushing to what end?
You know, uh and maybe I'msounding like I'm 95 now or
something and a bit, a bit a bitcynical or something.
But if I as I sit back and justlook at the the the world around
us, you know, you're talkingabout speed.
(47:56):
Speed to what end?
What are we trying to rushtowards?
As we fill up our lives withbusier stuff, are we any
happier?
So maybe there is some just adifferent way of being busy, a
different way of of sayingactually what is happiness?
And you know, if I go back to uhmy first ever expedition in
Kenya, which was back in 1988,uh, with a with an organised
(48:18):
charity called uh RallyInternational, they're now doing
still expeditions, but they'remobile phone-free.
So the young people going onthose expeditions love it
because there's no uh uhconnection with technology, and
they can get back to all thisstuff that I'm talking about
today, about kind of thesimplicity of life.
And so, you know, maybe there'ssomething in in what I'm saying
here, just be bring thatcritical thinking and not just
(48:41):
habitually get on your phone orand I'm not I'm not anti-phones
at all, but it's it's it'severything's got a time and a
place, so it's being morecritical about like what's
driving this, why am I doing it?
Is is fast helpful to take mewhere I want to go, and if I get
there, then what happens?
So, you know, I I think if thereis something I've seen, and
(49:01):
maybe I'm getting away from yourquestion now, Chris, but
something I've observed of lifeis that that many people are
they're they're they're busybecause they want to fill up
their time to actually avoidsitting down and asking some of
those critical questions as whoam I, what am I about, why am I
here?
And and because they don't wantto face that, you know, there's
where the courage is required toto actually say, maybe I could
(49:25):
do more with my life and whatwould have to change.
SPEAKER_02 (49:28):
Um brilliant.
Sue, thank you so much for uhtaking the time.
I mean, just at the end, Ialways like to say, is there
anything you'd like to plug,anything you'd like to promote,
where can people find you?
Um, stuff that you've maybewritten, you've written lots of
books.
SPEAKER_01 (49:41):
Yeah, well, I I think two things.
If people want to think abouthow to develop an adventurous
mindset and get a little bit ofinspiration, then they may want
to reach out and connect withme.
So SueStockdale.com is thewebsite, and you can get all my
connections from there.
Uh and the book if you likereading, it's on uh Audible as
well as uh in the written form,Explore a Life of Adventure.
(50:03):
And that will be giving you alittle bit of inspiration to
step into the unknown.
SPEAKER_02 (50:07):
Brilliant.
Did you have did you read theaudiobook by any chance?
SPEAKER_01 (50:10):
I did, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (50:11):
You voiced it.
Oh, brilliant.
I did voice it.
So good to hear you share dulcettones if we go on the audible.
Yes.
And of course, your Access toInspiration podcast um as well.
Um people should have a listen.
SPEAKER_01 (50:23):
Yes, absolutely.
unknown (50:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (50:25):
All right.
Sue, thank you so much fortaking the time today.
Great speaking with you.
SPEAKER_01 (50:29):
Thank you, Chris.
It's been great to be here.
SPEAKER_02 (50:36):
And that is it for this week's episode.
A huge thanks to Sue for sharingher extraordinary stories.
And of course, a big thanks toyou all for listening as well.
Sue has kindly shared the photosfrom that infamous Greenland
expedition, uh, including theone with the guy with the frozen
face, which is really crazy.
It's not just his beard, it alsolooks like his skin might be
(50:56):
frozen as well.
If you want to check those out,they are on the website.
So go to Noordinarymonday.comand look for the episode page.
You also find stuff on oursocials.
Um, we are on Instagram,LinkedIn, Facebook, and a bunch
of others as well.
Next week we are leaving theArctic behind and heading to
California.
My guest is Christy Warren, aparamedic and firefighter who
(51:20):
spent 25 years saving people andracing into burning buildings.
But later she found herselffacing an even tougher battle
with PTSD.
Her story of struggle andrecovery is incredibly raw,
powerful, and just really,really inspiring.
So subscribe now so you won'tmiss out on the episode.
If you'd like to share your owncareer story with us, we'd love
(51:42):
to hear from you.
Get in touch via our socials, oryou can email hello h l o at
noordinarymonday.com, or you cansimply use the Submit Your Story
page on our website.
And if you enjoyed this episode,please do two very, very quick
things for us.
Just click five stars and maybewrite a review, and the other
(52:02):
one's just tell a friend.
You know, it uh it really helpsus grow the show, attract more
amazing guests, and inspires newlisteners.
And that's it.
This show is produced, hosted,and edited by me, Chris Barron.
Thank you so much for listeningand have a great Monday,
everyone.
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