October 13, 2025 • 42 mins
A $16 million lottery ticket sits unclaimed. Hours before the deadline, an anonymous figure tries to cash in through a Belize shell company. That’s where we start—with a gamble that reveals one of the boldest insider frauds in US lottery history—and with the leader who decided to fight it in daylight rather than bury it in silence.
I sit down with Terry Rich—entrepreneur, former cable TV pioneer, zoo director, and CEO of the Iowa Lottery—to unpack the case that defined his later career. Terry explains how an insider at a vendor wrote code to narrow random outcomes once a year, why the fraud triad (need, opportunity, rationale) is the real risk model leaders should use, and how a string of small clues—including surveillance audio and a bizarre “two hot dogs” alibi—helped investigators connect jackpots across multiple states. We talk bluntly about industry pressure to keep quiet, why he refused, and how transparency actually increased public trust and sales.
Terry’s story stretches beyond the case. From helping launch MTV and HBO to reinventing a struggling zoo with irreverent ideas like “Scoop on Poop” and adult-only “Zoo Brew” nights, his career is a masterclass in creative problem-solving and operational integrity. He shares practical leadership habits—separating duties, documenting exceptions, inviting diverse voices—and the mindset that turns PR crises into credibility. We also explore the modern content landscape: why a YouTube documentary can outpace traditional channels, and how creators can leverage honest storytelling to build durable audiences.
If you’re curious about how insider fraud really works, how to structure teams to prevent it, and how courage in communication can strengthen a brand, this conversation delivers. Subscribe, leave a quick review, and share this episode with someone who geeks out on true crime, leadership, or the strange places where ethics and entrepreneurship collide. What would you have done at that last-minute claim?
Terry's website - https://terryspeaks.com/
Full Documentary: "Jackpot: America's Biggest Lotto Scam" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGsPAfQzakM
LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/terich
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/TerrySpeaksKeynote/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tlrrhi/
If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a five-star rating and review, and tell a friend about the show.
WANT TO BE A GUEST? You can submit your own career story through our website at noordinarymonday.com or email us at hello@noordinarymonday.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
In December 2010, a man disguised in a hoodie walked
into a convenience store andbought a lottery ticket.
This ticket will be worth$16million.
But this wasn't the first timethat Eddie Tipton found himself
with the winning numbers.
SPEAKER_02 (00:16):
He did it in Colorado, one of our other
states.
He did it in Wisconsin beforeus.
SPEAKER_01 (00:23):
He was the man behind coding the lottery
numbers, and he'd built himselfa way to win.
SPEAKER_02 (00:28):
He had all the keys to the kingdom.
He put in a code that wouldallow him one time every year to
know the numbers within 200combinations instead of 2
million or 20 million.
SPEAKER_01 (00:39):
The red flag started when nobody claimed the jackpot.
Then, just hours before thedeadline, someone else tried to
claim the prize anonymously,raising even more suspicion.
So, how did they catch thisinsider?
Criminal investigators closedin, linking clues across states.
And what started as a mysteryticket became one of the biggest
(01:01):
inside jobs in U.S.
lottery history.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04):
And when we busted him, it took two hot dogs and
Bigfoot along with the ticket tofigure him out.
SPEAKER_01 (01:37):
Now, before we dive in, I am introducing a new
segment to the show.
At the end of each episode, I'llbe sharing a listener story.
A funny, surprising, or justplain weird moment from your
working life.
So if you've got a great storyup your sleeve, hang around at
the end of this episode to findout how to send it in.
Okay, so on to this week's show.
(01:57):
My guest this week has lived oneof the most eclectic careers you
can imagine, from building cableTV networks in the early days of
broadcasting to running a zoo toeventually becoming CEO of the
Iowa Lottery.
And throughout it all, he'sbuilt a reputation for turning
unconventional ideas into bigsuccesses.
Whether it's selling Tiger Poopas deer repellent or helping to
(02:20):
build iconic channels like MTVand HBO.
Terry Rich is an entrepreneurand CEO whose mix of creativity
and curiosity has taken him frombeing a farm boy in Iowa to
boardrooms and newsrooms acrossAmerica.
And as you heard in that intro,Terry's big story takes us deep
inside one of the mostremarkable investigations in US
(02:41):
lottery history.
A high-stakes case of big money,hidden code, and the hunt for an
insider who tried to rig thesystem for personal gain.
So stay tuned for abehind-the-scenes look at the
wild ideas, close calls, andunexpected turns that defined
Terry's extraordinary career.
You're listening to No OrdinaryMonday?
(03:01):
Let's get into the show.
SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
Terry Rich, welcome, welcome to the podcast.
How are you doing today?
Uh, things are going great.
Loving talking to new peopleacross the world and uh telling
some crazy stories and maybelearn a little from you too.
SPEAKER_01 (03:21):
Oh well, yeah, we'll see.
I hope I can impart as muchknowledge in my uh in my story's
age of career compared to yours,but um we'll see.
Fingers crossed, we can onlyhope.
So um I always like to startthese uh conversations with uh,
you know, we're kind of where mymy career and my experiences
might be overlaps with theguests.
(03:42):
And I guess yours and mine is isvery much in the TV world.
What I love about people intelevision and people's stories
in television is that everyonehas a, you know, it's not like
doing engineering or somethinglike that, like, you know, you
people went to university andthen join an engineering firm.
People fall into television inall sorts of weird and wonderful
(04:02):
ways.
And um I just wonder whether youcould tell us how you how you
first fell into television.
SPEAKER_02 (04:08):
Oh, I wanted to be a farmer.
I grew up not thinking of TV.
I love to watch it, of course.
But uh now I I grew up and anduh went to school as a math
major, and all of a sudden a guysaid, Hey, you can go over here
and and uh talk and and and makea living.
I thought, hey, that's for me.
So I started thinking aboutradio and TV and getting
involved in college.
(04:28):
But what really was the bigbreak that I had was uh a couple
of people came in and said,We're looking for someone to
help us in cable television.
And cable wasn't cool then.
Ted Turner was just gettingstarted thinking about cable
news network and all thesedifferent networks.
But I raised my hand because allmy buddies had gone to broadcast
and I was late, so I thought I'dget into it.
And it was the greatestentrepreneurial experience I
(04:50):
ever had because uh it was justgetting started.
I say I uh I enjoyed production,I enjoyed TV, and uh it was
going really, really well, andand things were growing,
everything we touched seemed toturn to gold, and we were
expanding.
They were paying me these thingscalled stock options.
I had no idea what they were,but you know, I was making more
(05:11):
than I ever would have on the onthe farm.
So it it was really fun.
And then you always have thesecritical things that happen in
your life.
I was doing some on-camera workfor this cable company in the
old days, and I looked up and Ididn't have a five o'clock
shadow.
So I wrote to Gillette and toldhim how much I loved their
razor.
I think I'm gonna get onnational television.
(05:32):
I get to fly to New York rightaway.
So I sent it thinking in twoweeks I'm gonna get on it.
And it was like someone tryingto win the Powerball in America,
winning the big jackpot inlottery.
What happens if?
What happens if they write backand say, come on out?
Two weeks to the day I got theletter and I had failed.
They said, Dear Mr.
Rich, we appreciate yourenjoyment.
(05:53):
You don't have the five o'clockshadow.
Uh, but you wrote the wrongcompany.
Chick makes that.
Oh no, I wrote the wrong.
I failed, I failed.
And I but I that gave me adesire.
I didn't realize that what Ihad.
And so I really wanted to dothat more and and always look
for ways to do TV and theentertainment aspect of what
(06:13):
cable television was, because wegot to help start MTV, HBO, all
of these different channels, andeverything was so fun as we did
that.
And then the big break reallycame because I got a call from
my hometown that said they'regonna have a centennial.
Hey, 100 years old, we've neverhad anybody famous, you're doing
some TV.
Would you like to join us?
(06:34):
So I said, Well, I'll help you.
I but I shouldn't be it.
Let's see if we can adoptsomebody.
So I wrote a press release and Isent out 44 press releases
because I hit the copier thewrong number.
I was going to do four and ahalf, 44.
So I just started writing uhAssociated Press, Miami Herald,
London Times, you know, all ofthe different ones just to get
it out there.
(06:55):
One person called back.
I failed 43 of the 44 times.
One person wrote back for UnitedPress International, and they
said, We like it, we'll stick iton the wires.
Lo and behold, it made theJohnny Carson show.
And we got to go out and be infront of 20 million people.
And boy, I'll tell you, thatreally sparked the entertainment
and the TV of how easy it was,really, just if you raise your
(07:17):
hand and you volunteer and trysomething, how easy it is to
make a success in what you'retrying to do.
And that's kind of how I gotinvolved in it.
And it just went so well.
I mean, we did so well, and thenat 40, guess what?
As it happens, somebody decidedto come in and take over the
company and and uh do a uh afull buyout.
And so uh, well, those stockoptions turned out to be a
(07:40):
pretty cool deal.
So now I'm at age 40.
What the heck do you do next?
SPEAKER_01 (07:46):
Um, I'm always curious, and people's we kind of
touched on a little bit, and I'malways curious guests come on
and on their origin story, andwe've kind of touched on it a
little bit before, but you saidyou grew up on a farm, you know,
in Iowa.
Um, and uh as a kid, you know,did you have great aspirations
to to sort of leave the farm andbecome a you know heads of
companies and run the lotteryand be all that kind of stuff,
(08:08):
or were you kind of content withfarm life?
SPEAKER_02 (08:10):
How did it how did it go as a I was definitely
content with farm life?
It was a great lot.
You worked hard, you got money,but you were always friendly,
everybody was always joking,everybody was always happy.
Seemed like uh, you know, I grewup, I I I assumed we were poor.
I of course my last name isRich, but in general, I don't
think we had a lot of moneybecause my generations back lost
everything during the GreatDepression of America in the in
(08:33):
the late 30s.
So, you know, but but yet everytime we had a meal or we had the
family together, we had fun.
And so I, you know, that'sanother thing you always try to
look for again because that wassomething that you when you grew
up in that.
And and so I try to do the andlook for the same thing in
leadership qualities to make itfun for people that work for
you, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (08:53):
I I want to just uh touch on I mean, going back to
your farm life, you know, youyou were on the farm and you I
guess you went to you're doinghard hard work in the farm, you
know, uh with your dad, and thenalso going to school.
But then you went to you knowcollege and and you did
mathematics or something, right?
SPEAKER_02 (09:10):
Yeah, I I uh I mathematics, physics, uh I
figured I'd get a PhD and andteach college in math.
But I got into a class, and thisis back to what how your
personality and what drives you,I got into a class to prove in
six months with axiom andtheorems one was not equal to
zero.
What?
(09:31):
You know, I I just about fellover, you know.
I I'd passed out of a year ortwo of all of that to begin
with.
It wasn't fun, but the deductionmethods of if this then then, so
you're always thinking, okay, ifwe can make this do this over
here, we can make this muchmoney over there, proved to be
helpful, you know, down the roadin the in the theories and and
things that we did.
Uh but then it took a guy justto say, hey, you could talk,
(09:53):
make a living.
And I went over to the TV andradio class and then worked at
the local radio station and justhad an absolute ball.
And at the same time, thepolitics that I mentioned, my
mom always was encouraging me toget into leadership roles.
I got on the local collegeentertainment committee for
their homecoming and Greek weekand all of the different things
that that happens there, and gotto book all the big acts that
(10:14):
came into Hilton Coliseum thatwere the big stars of the day,
Elton John to whoever, and gotto and so that kept the
enthusiasm going um with all ofthat for uh for trying to stay
in television some way.
SPEAKER_01 (10:29):
Brilliant.
And so that you can't you can'tmention that guy a couple of
times, the guy that you said, ohyou can come over here.
So was that someone that youwere you you did you drop out of
mathematics at college or didyou complete it?
SPEAKER_02 (10:40):
I would have had a major if I'd have graduated in a
science major, uh, but I had adegree in journalism as a as a
sub major.
So yeah, um and it was aprofessor too who taught me that
it's better to have tried andfailed than to succeed at doing
nothing.
Yeah, and I thought I alwaysthought about that.
You know, that's that's a heckof a deal.
It's better to have tried andfailed than to succeed at doing
(11:01):
nothing.
So that's back to the conceptyou and I are talking about of
trying to get a lot of ideas andhaving a backup if one doesn't
work, but but you've got to trysomething.
If you don't actually act on it,you're never ever gonna succeed
at at having success in a in agiven endeavor.
SPEAKER_01 (11:18):
Yeah, brilliant.
So basically you had the submajor of journalism, and it was
in that you're like, you know,I'm good at talking, I'm good
with people, you know, I'm sortof a charming personality.
I could sort of make a careerout of that, and then you moved
over and and did radio and andsort of flourished from there.
SPEAKER_02 (11:35):
Brilliant.
I hate to tell you this, but youknow what my major is actual?
Because it was a science andtechnology college, I have a BS
in speech.
Bachelor of Science and Speechis actually my degree.
SPEAKER_01 (11:47):
BS and speech.
I love it.
And what did your what did yourdad think?
Was he kind of was he expectingyou to take over the farm one
day, or was he kind of like goforth and flourish, my son?
SPEAKER_02 (11:58):
Farming is tough.
And he just said, you know, Ithink you could make uh a more
steady career in in somethingelse, try it and and see.
You can always come back, youcan work summers, you can help
me.
But he said, see, you know, kindof see what you can do.
And once once you're on TV andyou come from a farm in a small
community where they didn't getto see people who are ever on
(12:19):
TV, then he was really happybecause everybody, I saw your
saw your son on TV today.
SPEAKER_01 (12:25):
So he was like, Yeah, I'm good.
I'm proud of myself.
Yeah, yeah.
Keep up your good work.
Did you because obviously on thefarm, I don't know what kind of
farm you guys had, was it withanimals and stuff like that?
Did that ever transition intoyour your zoo work?
SPEAKER_02 (12:39):
Absolutely.
When when when when I came outof having my own companies, I
was 50, and I guess you call itmidlife crisis.
Uh you uh I decided I I gottaget off the road.
I mean, I got the money I want,I've traveled what I want.
Uh, and they called and said,Hey, would you be interested in
helping us?
We're taking over the zoo fromthe city.
And I thought, well, I can'traising a giraffe can't be that
much different than raising acow.
(13:00):
And and really it wasn't.
Uh the only difference was thetigers we had, they're only 300
in the world, and if one of themdied for some reason, you know,
you're losing the species versusa cow, you can theoretically get
another cup.
But it was much, much like that.
But my whole concept was to goin and make the zoo something
different because you got everykid, we had every kid from two
(13:21):
to twelve.
We're going, they were alreadygoing to the zoo, they were
losing money.
The city was only charging fourdollars to get in, and uh the
zoo way down the road was doingit for$35.
Uh, and but the city didn't wantto hurt the kids, and so we
started doing crazy stuff.
And this is part of theentrepreneur things.
We had no money to to build anew exhibit or anything.
So I said, What do we have thatis uh that we already have that
(13:45):
we can use?
And I thought, wait a minute,all the animals poop, let's
let's do an exhibit, scoop onpoop.
So the kids could come in andthey could see all of the
different kinds of poops,elephant poop, giraffe poop, and
giggle and point, and thenthey'd go home and tell their
friends, and then everybody'scoming out.
So we started, you know,building that that uh that base
even bigger.
Then we said, well, but we gotto expand it.
(14:08):
Remember back to the diversitywhen you come up with ideas now
we can market them worldwide.
Why don't we have more youngadults?
Well, young adults, I don't wantto do this.
I did it when I was a kid.
Most people go when they're akid, when they take their kid,
and when they take theirgrandkid.
What do we get young adults in?
Well, what are young adultslike?
Booze.
So we decided to do a zoo brew.
So at night we open the zoo, nokids allowed, and you bring your
(14:32):
dates, you do whatever, we havea band, and we have all the
animals out, and oh, sopeaceful, it isn't a smoky bar.
And all of a sudden, we startedselling$200,000,$250,000 in
booze on these uh people comingin.
Isn't that crazy?
And and so you find ways to lookfor, you know, and then once you
have success, and the zookeepersaying we can't keep the animals
(14:53):
open at night, well, you know,we took some of that money and
gave back to them for enrichmentuh toys for the animals.
Now everybody was happy, and allof a sudden we grew, grew, grew.
We increased the price from$4.95to$9.95 because that still was
cheap.
And and they're saying, Oh, wedon't poor kids can't come in
this way.
And I said, Well, tell you what,they get in free.
So when they come up and momsays, kids, that's too
(15:15):
expensive, just let them inbecause we know the people from
the other zoo that's paying$25,they're gonna come over and
they're gonna be excited aboutthat price.
And all of a sudden, everythingjust lifted up.
And then as you have success,success breeds success.
The donors of the zoo who hadbacked down a little bit because
it was run down and not doingwell, started giving more, and
we did something called anendowment.
(15:36):
And nonprofits, you want to havea big fund that just the
interest off it continues youroperation, and that's a big one
in any operations.
You got to have cash flow, soyou got to have money to be able
to exist if you have a bad dayor COVID hits or whatever.
And so they started donating,and we raised about 15 million
in endowments, so that zoo'sgonna be around forever, and
it's become the second largestcultural attraction in this
(15:58):
area.
SPEAKER_01 (15:59):
Brilliant.
I I have to ask, with with withthe alcohol at the zoo idea, I
mean, you must have had somestories of drunken escapades,
people trying to climb into theelephant enclosure, and we uh we
we started with a lot of cops, alot of people watching
(16:19):
everybody, and it turned out tobe the opposite because instead
of when you go to a bar, it'senclosed, music's loud, and
everybody's pounding and havinga great time.
SPEAKER_02 (16:28):
This people came and just darn enjoyed themselves,
and we had some specialty nightstoo, which kind of added to it.
We had one night, a berry manlownight, because we had a zebra
that we needed to get pregnant.
It was a very uh an ext notextinct, but you know, not many
of that species were around.
And we got a male and female,and we waited till her gestation
(16:48):
period.
You can't say that until you'rea zoo director.
This gestation period was a timethat we we put the male in.
We knew that they would breedthat night.
So we had a berrymantalo night.
We played berry manilo music,told everybody if you're trying
to have a baby, come on out andhave a drink, and let's all get
together and watch the zebras goat it.
And I mean, again, the theearned the earned media, we had
(17:09):
all this free press, all thepeople that came.
Uh, you know, they they thoughtthat was a hoot, and all of a
sudden people start more peoplecame.
And we just became kind of Idon't want to uh we use the word
hip back in the day, but it youknow, it became the in place to
go.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
Yeah, it's kind of cool, kind of funky.
SPEAKER_02 (17:24):
You know, back to the scoop on poop, the other
thing that was fun is we figuredout that we have white-tailed
deer in our area that eat all ofour flowers and everything, and
it's tough to find repellent,but we figured out we tested it,
and tiger poop is a naturalpredator.
Now, a deer has never seen anIowa, a tiger in the wild.
Yeah, but when they smell thatfor some reason it repels them.
(17:45):
So we started selling tiger poopfor$25 a bucket, and we were
selling out of that left andright, and of course, that's a
renewable resource, right?
So we were way ahead of thiswhole renewable resource thing.
SPEAKER_01 (17:55):
Oh, that's amazing.
Uh yeah, you basically had thiswaste product and you just made
money from it.
Love it.
You got it, and and and thingslike that, like you know, coming
up with ideas like that.
Are you I is that somethingyou're kind of in the shower in
the morning going, Oh, that's agood idea.
Or are you kind of like in abrainstorm meeting with your
your senior management?
SPEAKER_02 (18:12):
I was out just walking in the zoo and thinking,
what the heck do we have?
What would people be interestedin?
I saw little kids saying, Oh,oh, look at that turtle, it's
pooping.
Good enough.
You just never know where you'regetting where where ideas come
from or or how to get them.
But that's that's what makesback to the success of making it
fun when one of those do work.
(18:33):
And honest to God, there's somany that I probably have that
that I didn't that didn't work,but no nobody remembers that I
said those.
SPEAKER_01 (18:43):
It must be a dream.
I mean, many people out there Iknow listening to this would be
working, running a zoo or justworking in a zoo would be an
absolute dream job.
And I was it a dream job foryou?
SPEAKER_02 (18:54):
It really was.
Uh mainly for the reason is thatyou were helping people, you're
helping kids, you're findingways that kids that couldn't
afford it.
We just tell the people at thefront desk, just let them in.
Just don't say anything.
Just say go on in.
You know, if the mom would say,Oh god, we can't afford it, to
you know, it's it's like DisneyWorld.
At Disney World, if you notice,they only in the past, now with
all the terrorism stuff, theyprobably have more, but they
(19:16):
used to only have one copsitting in the back room because
no one ever stole from theirfrom their uh area.
There were never fights becauseyou go to Disney World to have
fun, and that's the way the zoowas.
And we only had one exit.
So if we lost a kid, we wouldalways find them immediately.
Yeah, um, you know, we never wenever lost a kid.
Everybody came fun, everybodyhad happy, and if they weren't,
(19:38):
we gave them a little and theword spread about how neat this
new zoo was.
You know, I I uh another groupcame in, it was the LB uh G Q T
T K.
Everybody came, yeah.
They came in and said, Hey, we'dlost our location to have a big
Halloween party.
I didn't know what was going on.
Sure, you know, we'll give youan evening just like the
(19:59):
Zoobrew, we'll just shut it downand it'll be yours.
Wow.
So we had about four employees.
So I I walked out, and here's aguy in drag.
And I thought, oh no, if myboard of directors see this, uh
crap.
But we became great allies to beable to give them a private
place to enter be entertained,have fun.
(20:19):
Everybody loves animals, and wenow are accepted by all aspects
of the community.
Again, getting that bushelbasket of every color race creed
to come together because it wasa public public deal.
And so that's something that'llbe around for a long, long time.
SPEAKER_01 (20:37):
So one of the big things we love doing this
podcast is bringing folks who'vehad uh amazing, interesting, and
unusual careers, such asyourself, um, and really just
get them to relive that sort ofone singular, most unforgettable
sort of experience of theircareer.
And I know you've had so many,but um I mean which one sort of
(20:58):
stands out as as that sort of umreally exceptional experience?
SPEAKER_02 (21:03):
The one that really kind of set the end of my career
uh in motion uh was the EddieTipton case.
And that was a gentleman whodidn't work for us but worked
for a vendor of ours who uh whowrote programming code uh for a
one of our lottery games thatwould automatically draw with a
computer the numbers.
(21:24):
Well, he put in a code thatwould allow him one time every
year uh on a given date uh toknow the numbers within 200
combinations instead of twomillion or twenty million.
Yeah.
And he did it in uh Colorado,one of our other states, he did
it in uh Wisconsin before us,but he did it in Iowa, and he
(21:48):
was unlucky.
He walked into a store that hadboth video and audio.
He had hoodie on, he he wascovered up, so you couldn't
really tell who it was.
And so he bought it.
We figured out he had won 16million dollars, and nobody
showed up, and we couldn'tfigure out what was going on,
and it started getting reallycrazy because then all sorts of
(22:11):
weird people started saying,Hey, that's mine.
I think the the clerk stolemine, or you know, my brother
took it, and my husband's in themafia, and I know they took it,
and I get half of it, so youwatch for that if it comes in.
And then 11 months, about amonth before it was going to
expire, because no one hadclaimed it, no one actually had
it, and you got to have theticket to claim it.
Uh, we got a call, and the guysaid, I bought that ticket, and
(22:33):
because we had the video andaudio, we knew what it sounded
like, we knew it wasn't him, sohe created fraud.
So we got all the investigatorstogether and we started hunting,
and they just gave it up.
Well, who gives up 16 million?
Bill Gates wouldn't give up 16million.
SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
That's a red flag, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:48):
So uh the investigators started started a
case, and it took about four orfive years, and ultimately we
realized it's this guy whoworked for one of our vendors.
Um, and we finally busted him,and when we busted him, it took
a hot dog, two hot dogs, andBigfoot, along with the ticket,
to figure him out because hewhen he bought the ticket one,
(23:12):
he he was recorded video andaudio, and it was the audio, his
voice that people recognizedwhen we released it to the media
to say that anybody ever seen orknow this person.
But he bought two hot dogs, andhis brother got on the stand
when we were trying to get himconvicted and said that can't be
my brother because he don't eathot dogs.
Well, the guy weighed 350pounds.
(23:32):
So everybody kind of laughed,and the associated press put
that out on the national wiresand went back to the hometown.
And we figured and somebody downthere, a FBI person, called and
said, Hey, that guy's brotherwho was on the stand, he's he
won uh a jackpot in Colorado, soyou should be looking at him.
So here's here's the moral ofthe story.
If you are ever going to doanything illegal, don't use your
(23:54):
cell phone, don't lose yoursocial media, because we took
all everybody's contacts thatwere involved in all their
social media contacts, all theircell phone, and immediately
found five jackpots, connectedthem all together that had been
one across the United States andbusted them.
Now, the moral of that story isum because lotteries are run by
each state, so there are 48different lotteries in America.
(24:16):
Australia will have a lottery,England has their lotteries.
Uh, but the other lotterydirectors were saying, hey, let
this lie because you're gamblingwith our$80 billion industry.
People are gonna not want toplay if you're saying it might
be rigged.
But my governor, the people incharge of our state, and I said,
(24:36):
whatever we do, we're gonnaspend whatever it takes to find
this because we want the gamefair and honest.
And so I learned a real keyvaluable, because you know I'm a
promoter, you can tell thatalready.
Promoter.
Every time we got on the air, wesold more tickets, ironically.
And ultimately, um, we bustedit, uh, we figured it out, and
he they pled guilty all threethree different people.
(24:57):
The guy who who did theprogramming, his brother, and
his uh best friend, who all hadbeen claiming tickets all over
the all over the U.S.
And the moral of that is istrying to figure out when your
when your ethics do you do youkeep your gut in trying to do
that?
And of course, I'm a promoter,so I'm always on the air.
And every time I'm on the air,we're selling tickets, and
(25:18):
they're saying, just shut up.
Just you're gonna hurt us if ifyou if you don't if you just be
quiet, it might be a lot betterfor the industry.
But ultimately, did it work?
It worked because we found themguilty.
We had some we found theevidence, they pled guilty, they
went to prison for up to 25years, and lo and behold, the
lottery industry went from an$80billion industry to about uh um
(25:41):
$110,$105 million.
It went way up.
So it worked because people arethinking, you know, should I
gamble you know online off uhMaltese or you know, wherever
people are doing it uh online,or or would I be better to do
with my lottery because at leastthey're looking at it.
And I think people peoplefigured out hey, it's better to
(26:03):
do it that way.
And so it it was gut-wrenching.
You talk about you know, nightswhere you're just saying, What
the hell am I doing?
And and the only thing thatworked is we got closure.
Usually, if there's a rape, amurder, uh, uh, an assault, you
don't get closure because it'sappealed all the way up.
But our prosecutor andinvestigators were so good by
(26:24):
the time we got through it all,we had enough evidence for them
to say, Yep, I did it, and theyall cut deals and went to prison
for a while, and I think they'reall out and doing their thing
now.
So that that is probably whatI'm best known for today.
Yeah.
Uh in that, and it was kind of afailure in that he was doing it.
Why we didn't somebody didn'tfind it before.
(26:46):
It wasn't our employee, it wasit's other companies that does
it.
But uh uh on the other hand, weturned it to success when it was
all said and done.
So that is rewarding.
SPEAKER_01 (26:55):
I wonder just with the Tipton case, I just want to
sort of go back and reframe itslightly.
So, I mean, just take us from itwas an everyday day at the
office, you know, you're runningthe lottery, you know, in Iowa.
What was the first that youheard about this this issue,
this potential problem?
SPEAKER_02 (27:12):
First, I heard that we had a problem.
I was on a cruise ship nearBelize.
And ironically, the people whoclaim this ticket uh formed a
corporation in Belize.
Well, that should tell yousomething because that's where
most of the tax fraud happens inBelize.
Yeah.
I'm on the cruise ship, I get acall, and it's from the from the
security and the publicinformation officers, hey, we
got a problem.
(27:32):
We got somebody that's that uhsays they they want it, but
doesn't sound or look likeanything that we have here, we
don't think we should pay it.
And I said, Don't pay it.
We'll take it to court and letthe courts decide.
Then because if you pay it,you're never gonna see it.
unknown (27:47):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (27:47):
Um that's the first thing I heard.
And I'm worried because I'm I'mworking for the state and it's
costing nine bucks a minute tobe on this darn telephone on the
ship, and I'll catch hell forthat, too, you know, spending
their money unwisely somehow.
Um so anyway, we came back andthen we went through the the the
two or three weeks, and thisperson didn't show up.
(28:08):
They sent it back to a guy inNew York who was a lawyer who
said, Okay, I'll I'll try toclaim it.
And that's when he came in anhour and a half before the
ticket was to expire.
If they think through thisthing, it's the stupidest thing
because that just raises allsorts of red flags.
But you wait till an hour and ahalf for the ticket's going to
expire to claim it because youthink, well, maybe somebody else
had at some point, and then andthen they give it up, and so
(28:30):
giving it up even made it moremore weird because it and it
just kept but then it was kindof fun, and then it was
mysterious, and then all of asudden you realize you're about
to put somebody in prison, andwhat if they are with what if
this deal is with the mafia andI end up with a horse head in my
bed?
You know, there's some scarytimes in those those kinds of
jobs that you're dealing withmillions and billions of
(28:52):
dollars.
It's uh yeah, you try just to doit as you and I do, wake up
every day and do your thing, butyou never know.
SPEAKER_01 (28:58):
I I hadn't even considered that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:00):
So I mean, that was something that you were yeah,
you had in the back of your mindwas like well, if we were
investigating one of thecorporations that claimed
because two people won the onein Colorado, uh, beside this
guy's friend, and and the otherone was a question of luck
spelled in Spanish, and it wasbased in um Las Vegas.
(29:20):
So I thought this this could be,and so you realize when you're
in a management position totrust your investigators, try
not to get your nose in theinvestigation.
That was tough for me because itwas so interesting.
And you know, let let them doyour job because you get your
nose in it, you could you couldscrew it up.
SPEAKER_01 (29:40):
Gee, so so I mean, but I mean I didn't I I didn't
even have thought that you knowthe mafia being involved.
There's so much as you say, it'sone of those things.
There's millions and millions ofdollars at stake.
It's so tempting for not justeveryday people like Tipton and
whoever but for gangs andorganized crime to try and you
know get their fingers into thisand you had thought about the
(30:02):
potential threat and on you knowviolence against yourself for
for messing up.
SPEAKER_02 (30:07):
Yep.
Me and people that were weredoing investigations.
Um but it's a little different,I think, being in the Midwest.
We just don't have the kind oforganized crime that you do if
you were sitting in New York orLas Vegas.
And at least that's myperception.
Whether it's right or wronghere, I may be saying this and
some mafia guy come visit metonight to say, hey, you got to
(30:27):
straighten that stuff out.
So you know you you just uh youtry to do the job the best you
can you try to do it as honestas you can and that goes back to
your farm upbringing in that youknow integrity was always a big
deal you know because everybodyknew you and if you messed up
that was the rest of your lifeyou're stuck there on a farm
they you know wouldn't trust youthey wouldn't do business with
(30:48):
you.
SPEAKER_01 (30:48):
Yeah yeah yeah so basically you had someone that
wasn't your direct employee butsomeone within the system of the
lottery who was responsible foryou know essentially you know
coding the system from from anumber generating system came up
with a clever scheme of his anduh and then it was basically
basically because he'd done itmultiple times but it was just
(31:09):
the poor execution on thisparticular event.
SPEAKER_02 (31:14):
Chris here's the here's the lesson I learned
because I did a lot of researchbecause I do a lot of speaking
now on how to prevent this dealyeah there are three things that
get people to steal internallyAmerican certified fraud
examiners that number one isthey need the money.
You know hey you know and that'sI got caught gambling or I've
been drinking too much doingdrugs got a divorce I need the
(31:34):
money and I need it now.
But if you don't have the secondone which is opportunity you
won't steal because that's wherethe checks and balances come on.
That's why you want somebody towrite the PO and somebody
different to sign the check youknow in simplistic terms.
So you got to have the financialneed then the opportunity he had
the opportunity he wrote thecode he combined the code he had
(31:55):
all the keys to the kingdomthere wasn't anybody overseeing
him in that because they had avery small operation for that
company doing that.
And the third one which is thetoughest oversee is rationale.
At what point does the devil onyour shoulder say you deserve it
Sue over there is making moremoney than you are.
You deserve more money you youhave the right to go ahead and
steal.
When those three are combinedyou're pretty ripe for fraud and
(32:17):
that's why you have oversightand controls and checks and
balances within an organization.
And that's really important insmall businesses if you think of
small school districts or smallbusinesses where the business
manager writes the checks writesthe purchase orders and the and
the boss that takes too muchtime to get this out of my out
of my face you just do it.
SPEAKER_01 (32:37):
That's where you get taken yeah so it's it's it's and
basically I guess after that itwas just re um refining the
system that was in place alreadyto make okay we see there's a
there's a there's a gap here wegot to fill that gap and make
sure that never happens again.
SPEAKER_02 (32:51):
Yeah they yeah and he would the you go almost all
will try a small one first.
So he did Colorado got six sevenhundred thousand dollars and
then he did it in Wisconsin gotanother nine hundred thousand
but this big jackpot was comingup and it was going to be on the
date that his his code couldwork and I I don't want to split
this money with anybody becausehe was having other people do it
(33:12):
for him.
So he wasn't recognized becausehe was prohibited because he was
a vendor of the lottery by ourlaw from buying tickets so he
disguised himself and went andbought it himself but our law
says whoever buys it has toreveal who bought it and what
they look like and he hadsomebody else say it but because
we had video and audio we knewit wasn't him yeah yeah
(33:34):
brilliant I have to ask as aentrepreneur self and someone
who sees and appreciates uminteresting creative ideas and I
know this was a criminal act wasthere ever a small party that
was kind of impressed ohabsolutely absolutely and and
you know this guy uh headed theheaded the uh security
(33:56):
operations for uh this companythat did it and we had seminars
all the time and one of thethings that everybody does is
you get together and say Iwonder how somebody could do
that or I heard that in Europethey were doing this you know
wonder could that happen to us?
What do we have for the checks?
So every time they got togetherthey were thinking about what do
we do to do it.
And he was leading thosediscussions.
(34:17):
So if someone came up and saidwell I wonder what would happen
if this happened he just took itback and did it.
And so you know we we all dothat and I think that's how
frauds actually get startedbecause uh you know the people
who are in charge of the fraudare looking for the loopholes
because they're trying toprevent it.
And if they found that you knowif you're trying to prevent uh
people bringing uh dope overfrom the over the border uh
(34:39):
bringing in fentanyl or whateveruh what if I could figure out
how to get a little bit of thatonce I arrest somebody to go
sell I mean it's it's a it's atypical routine.
Yeah yeah well there'sentrepreneurs and then there's
criminal entrepreneurs brilliantum all right well I think just
more generally about your sortof career reflecting back on on
(35:00):
everything um as I said you'veyou've been leadership positions
in many of these kind of thingswhat what would you say is the
sort of secret source there ofof being a good leader a good
CEO a good president of acompany I think you learn that
from others my first boss in thecable the ones be fair to people
(35:23):
um you know try to be open yeahif if they know what's expected
if you people know what'sexpected they'll do much more
for you um so tell them here'sour goal here's what we're
trying to do if you've got ideashelp us out you'll be rewarded
if you can help us out um I Ithink it it is a good way um
trying to understand the wholediversity we talked about has
(35:46):
been in the limelight over thelast few years at least in
America and I think uh learningthe new ideas being able to
adapt and and not if you've goteverybody around the table that
look like you you probably aremissing big big big
opportunities so trying to uhtrying to look for other avenues
so that you're not just sellinga widget to a certain area
(36:07):
you're selling a widget to thisand something else that comes
from that widget to a whole newgroup of of of uh people who do
that I think but most of allit's trying to be kind I mean
you you try to be fair in inwhat you're doing and when you
have to make a decision try toexplain what that decision is so
that it seems like and and tryto do the best you can in doing
(36:31):
that you know give back to thegiving back to the community is
fun and and handling it but youknow in family I don't know I I
I do fail in in relaxationthough I wish I could do what I
see others being able to do ofbeing able to go to a beach and
not be thinking about but I I goto a beach and I look over and
say I wonder if anybody everinvented a different kind of
(36:53):
beach ball you know uh I wonderyou know I'm always I'm always
thinking what would be whatwould be the next thing I should
try to get involved in I thinkwait a minute you know I've
already done it what the hell amI doing here?
SPEAKER_01 (37:03):
And obviously like you you're retired now but you
still probably keep a yourfinger on the pulse with what
things going and I guess forpeople that are moving into this
similar career trajectoryentrepreneurs CEOs heads of
companies what do you see is thethe biggest difference in
today's landscape compared towhat it was like when you were
(37:23):
kind of working in in uh in thatbusiness?
SPEAKER_02 (37:26):
Well I think you've got to find an expertise that
you know you're not just comingout of college you're not just
gonna jump into somethingbecause you know it you you've
had classes that taught you howto do put two molecules together
to create a patent yeah so ifyou aren't you know that smart
or you're not going intosomething that technical then I
think you got to go to worksomewhere to show and get
associations with people and abusiness that you really enjoy.
(37:49):
You know if that let's talk thezoo if zoo's your deal and you
go and look at zoo then lookaround and see what do the
animals need what what kind ofvendors are here promoting at
the zoo and try to findsomething that gets your passion
so that you can learn thebusiness and then take that
knowledge to adapt.
If you just go in and say hey Iwent to the zoo the other day
and I saw that they had thesecoin things that you press and
(38:11):
they spend on 50 cents I'm gonnago start making those you don't
have any real background of youknow you're gonna be way behind
and doing and let somebody elsepay you and take a job so that
you can learn it first beforeyou go in and spend all your
money to try to learn it.
Interesting yeah I just it's youknow I've been seeing some stuff
recently where it's like um youknow it used to be that you go
(38:33):
to college get a degree jumpinto it um but it's more I think
there's more of anentrepreneurial mindset now with
a lot more opportunities outthere especially with the
internet social media people'sideas can just come from nothing
almost yeah and isn't it amazingyou know we did this documentary
on the on the Eddie Tipton caseand it amazes me in the old days
(38:56):
I'd try to get it on an HBO orsomething like that.
Today we put it on YouTubebecause it has 10 times the
audience of Netflix and we'vehad 8000 views in a month and a
half and it isn't like you'd getthem all the first week now
we're gonna have a million twomillion people here in the first
year and that's a wholedifferent aspect so you learn
all the different you'relearning all the time they could
(39:18):
we used to call it lifelonglearning but for me it's just
finding something you really arepassionate about and just
keeping your eyes open andfinding people associates who
are knowledgeable in it to helpteach you on on how to make it
work and then run like hell.
Brill um Terry Rich thank you somuch for taking the time I mean
at the end of these uh chats Ialways like to sort of say what
if you how how do people findyou how do people reach you how
(39:41):
you know you've got other stuffbooks and documentaries out
there what would you like totell people about yeah they're
they're all out thereterryspeaks.com t-e-r-r-y speaks
like talking dot com is a placeand the other is take a look at
the uh take a look at the uhjackpot america's biggest lotto
scam is uh is available onYouTube and that it's real easy
(40:01):
to find if you just do Lotto DocD O C Lotto doc like documentary
lotdoc.com it'll take you rightto it's about 45 50 minutes but
that'll kind of show you thethings that really messed with
my mind over seven or eightyears.
SPEAKER_01 (40:16):
Yeah I watched it this week it's fantastic it's
really interesting for anyonewho wants a deep dive on that uh
Eddie Tipton case and to findout more about how Bigfoot and
uh you know that sort of stuffgets involved then you can go
check that out it's a good doc.
SPEAKER_02 (40:32):
Sounds good.
Well this was the pleasure.
SPEAKER_01 (40:34):
Enjoyed talking to you Terry Hurtz thank you so
much for taking the time speakto you soon and that's it for
this week's episode a hugethanks to Terry again for
sharing his incredible storiesand a big thanks to you all for
listening.
If you want to see more fromTerry you'll find links to his
(40:54):
website books and thedocumentary Jackpot America's
biggest lot of scam in the shownotes and on the episode page at
noordinarymonday.com.
And as always you can find extraclips and visuals from this
episode across our socialsInstagram, LinkedIn, Facebook
and more next week we areheading from the boardroom to
the open skies.
(41:15):
My guest is Heidi Porch, anincredible pilot who survived
every aviator's worst nightmarea mechanical failure that caused
her to crash her plane into theocean miles from land or help.
It is a mind-blowing story somake sure you're subscribed so
you don't miss out on thatepisode.
Now before I go more on this newsegment that I'm going to be
(41:36):
introducing at the end of eachepisode I'll be sharing a short
listener story.
It could be one memorablemoment, a funny mishap or just a
surprising twist from yourworking life.
So you can either write them inor send me an audio clip on the
website but just keep it short Ithink one to two minutes is what
we're aiming for.
And you can stay anonymous Idon't need to add your name but
if you want to just throw yourname in and you'll also get a
(41:59):
shout out at the end of the showif it's read out.
To send them in head to noordinary monday dot com and
click the listener story page oryou can email hello at no
ordinary monday dot com withlistener story in the subject
line.
I'm sure there are tons and tonsof amazing anecdotes and stories
out there so I can't wait to seewhat you guys send in.
(42:21):
If you enjoyed today's episodeplease do two really quick
things for us leave a five starrating and review and tell a
family member or friend that'sit.
It really helps us grow the showattract more extraordinary
guests and inspires newlisteners.
And that's it this show isproduced hosted and edited by me
Chris Barron thank you so muchfor listening and have a great
(42:42):
Monday everyone
In December 2010, a man disguised in a hoodie walked
into a convenience store andbought a lottery ticket.
This ticket will be worth$16million.
But this wasn't the first timethat Eddie Tipton found himself
with the winning numbers.
SPEAKER_02 (00:16):
He did it in Colorado, one of our other
states.
He did it in Wisconsin beforeus.
SPEAKER_01 (00:23):
He was the man behind coding the lottery
numbers, and he'd built himselfa way to win.
SPEAKER_02 (00:28):
He had all the keys to the kingdom.
He put in a code that wouldallow him one time every year to
know the numbers within 200combinations instead of 2
million or 20 million.
SPEAKER_01 (00:39):
The red flag started when nobody claimed the jackpot.
Then, just hours before thedeadline, someone else tried to
claim the prize anonymously,raising even more suspicion.
So, how did they catch thisinsider?
Criminal investigators closedin, linking clues across states.
And what started as a mysteryticket became one of the biggest
(01:01):
inside jobs in U.S.
lottery history.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04):
And when we busted him, it took two hot dogs and
Bigfoot along with the ticket tofigure him out.
SPEAKER_01 (01:37):
Now, before we dive in, I am introducing a new
segment to the show.
At the end of each episode, I'llbe sharing a listener story.
A funny, surprising, or justplain weird moment from your
working life.
So if you've got a great storyup your sleeve, hang around at
the end of this episode to findout how to send it in.
Okay, so on to this week's show.
(01:57):
My guest this week has lived oneof the most eclectic careers you
can imagine, from building cableTV networks in the early days of
broadcasting to running a zoo toeventually becoming CEO of the
Iowa Lottery.
And throughout it all, he'sbuilt a reputation for turning
unconventional ideas into bigsuccesses.
Whether it's selling Tiger Poopas deer repellent or helping to
(02:20):
build iconic channels like MTVand HBO.
Terry Rich is an entrepreneurand CEO whose mix of creativity
and curiosity has taken him frombeing a farm boy in Iowa to
boardrooms and newsrooms acrossAmerica.
And as you heard in that intro,Terry's big story takes us deep
inside one of the mostremarkable investigations in US
(02:41):
lottery history.
A high-stakes case of big money,hidden code, and the hunt for an
insider who tried to rig thesystem for personal gain.
So stay tuned for abehind-the-scenes look at the
wild ideas, close calls, andunexpected turns that defined
Terry's extraordinary career.
You're listening to No OrdinaryMonday?
(03:01):
Let's get into the show.
SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
Terry Rich, welcome, welcome to the podcast.
How are you doing today?
Uh, things are going great.
Loving talking to new peopleacross the world and uh telling
some crazy stories and maybelearn a little from you too.
SPEAKER_01 (03:21):
Oh well, yeah, we'll see.
I hope I can impart as muchknowledge in my uh in my story's
age of career compared to yours,but um we'll see.
Fingers crossed, we can onlyhope.
So um I always like to startthese uh conversations with uh,
you know, we're kind of where mymy career and my experiences
might be overlaps with theguests.
(03:42):
And I guess yours and mine is isvery much in the TV world.
What I love about people intelevision and people's stories
in television is that everyonehas a, you know, it's not like
doing engineering or somethinglike that, like, you know, you
people went to university andthen join an engineering firm.
People fall into television inall sorts of weird and wonderful
(04:02):
ways.
And um I just wonder whether youcould tell us how you how you
first fell into television.
SPEAKER_02 (04:08):
Oh, I wanted to be a farmer.
I grew up not thinking of TV.
I love to watch it, of course.
But uh now I I grew up and anduh went to school as a math
major, and all of a sudden a guysaid, Hey, you can go over here
and and uh talk and and and makea living.
I thought, hey, that's for me.
So I started thinking aboutradio and TV and getting
involved in college.
(04:28):
But what really was the bigbreak that I had was uh a couple
of people came in and said,We're looking for someone to
help us in cable television.
And cable wasn't cool then.
Ted Turner was just gettingstarted thinking about cable
news network and all thesedifferent networks.
But I raised my hand because allmy buddies had gone to broadcast
and I was late, so I thought I'dget into it.
And it was the greatestentrepreneurial experience I
(04:50):
ever had because uh it was justgetting started.
I say I uh I enjoyed production,I enjoyed TV, and uh it was
going really, really well, andand things were growing,
everything we touched seemed toturn to gold, and we were
expanding.
They were paying me these thingscalled stock options.
I had no idea what they were,but you know, I was making more
(05:11):
than I ever would have on the onthe farm.
So it it was really fun.
And then you always have thesecritical things that happen in
your life.
I was doing some on-camera workfor this cable company in the
old days, and I looked up and Ididn't have a five o'clock
shadow.
So I wrote to Gillette and toldhim how much I loved their
razor.
I think I'm gonna get onnational television.
(05:32):
I get to fly to New York rightaway.
So I sent it thinking in twoweeks I'm gonna get on it.
And it was like someone tryingto win the Powerball in America,
winning the big jackpot inlottery.
What happens if?
What happens if they write backand say, come on out?
Two weeks to the day I got theletter and I had failed.
They said, Dear Mr.
Rich, we appreciate yourenjoyment.
(05:53):
You don't have the five o'clockshadow.
Uh, but you wrote the wrongcompany.
Chick makes that.
Oh no, I wrote the wrong.
I failed, I failed.
And I but I that gave me adesire.
I didn't realize that what Ihad.
And so I really wanted to dothat more and and always look
for ways to do TV and theentertainment aspect of what
(06:13):
cable television was, because wegot to help start MTV, HBO, all
of these different channels, andeverything was so fun as we did
that.
And then the big break reallycame because I got a call from
my hometown that said they'regonna have a centennial.
Hey, 100 years old, we've neverhad anybody famous, you're doing
some TV.
Would you like to join us?
(06:34):
So I said, Well, I'll help you.
I but I shouldn't be it.
Let's see if we can adoptsomebody.
So I wrote a press release and Isent out 44 press releases
because I hit the copier thewrong number.
I was going to do four and ahalf, 44.
So I just started writing uhAssociated Press, Miami Herald,
London Times, you know, all ofthe different ones just to get
it out there.
(06:55):
One person called back.
I failed 43 of the 44 times.
One person wrote back for UnitedPress International, and they
said, We like it, we'll stick iton the wires.
Lo and behold, it made theJohnny Carson show.
And we got to go out and be infront of 20 million people.
And boy, I'll tell you, thatreally sparked the entertainment
and the TV of how easy it was,really, just if you raise your
(07:17):
hand and you volunteer and trysomething, how easy it is to
make a success in what you'retrying to do.
And that's kind of how I gotinvolved in it.
And it just went so well.
I mean, we did so well, and thenat 40, guess what?
As it happens, somebody decidedto come in and take over the
company and and uh do a uh afull buyout.
And so uh, well, those stockoptions turned out to be a
(07:40):
pretty cool deal.
So now I'm at age 40.
What the heck do you do next?
SPEAKER_01 (07:46):
Um, I'm always curious, and people's we kind of
touched on a little bit, and I'malways curious guests come on
and on their origin story, andwe've kind of touched on it a
little bit before, but you saidyou grew up on a farm, you know,
in Iowa.
Um, and uh as a kid, you know,did you have great aspirations
to to sort of leave the farm andbecome a you know heads of
companies and run the lotteryand be all that kind of stuff,
(08:08):
or were you kind of content withfarm life?
SPEAKER_02 (08:10):
How did it how did it go as a I was definitely
content with farm life?
It was a great lot.
You worked hard, you got money,but you were always friendly,
everybody was always joking,everybody was always happy.
Seemed like uh, you know, I grewup, I I I assumed we were poor.
I of course my last name isRich, but in general, I don't
think we had a lot of moneybecause my generations back lost
everything during the GreatDepression of America in the in
(08:33):
the late 30s.
So, you know, but but yet everytime we had a meal or we had the
family together, we had fun.
And so I, you know, that'sanother thing you always try to
look for again because that wassomething that you when you grew
up in that.
And and so I try to do the andlook for the same thing in
leadership qualities to make itfun for people that work for
you, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (08:53):
I I want to just uh touch on I mean, going back to
your farm life, you know, youyou were on the farm and you I
guess you went to you're doinghard hard work in the farm, you
know, uh with your dad, and thenalso going to school.
But then you went to you knowcollege and and you did
mathematics or something, right?
SPEAKER_02 (09:10):
Yeah, I I uh I mathematics, physics, uh I
figured I'd get a PhD and andteach college in math.
But I got into a class, and thisis back to what how your
personality and what drives you,I got into a class to prove in
six months with axiom andtheorems one was not equal to
zero.
What?
(09:31):
You know, I I just about fellover, you know.
I I'd passed out of a year ortwo of all of that to begin
with.
It wasn't fun, but the deductionmethods of if this then then, so
you're always thinking, okay, ifwe can make this do this over
here, we can make this muchmoney over there, proved to be
helpful, you know, down the roadin the in the theories and and
things that we did.
Uh but then it took a guy justto say, hey, you could talk,
(09:53):
make a living.
And I went over to the TV andradio class and then worked at
the local radio station and justhad an absolute ball.
And at the same time, thepolitics that I mentioned, my
mom always was encouraging me toget into leadership roles.
I got on the local collegeentertainment committee for
their homecoming and Greek weekand all of the different things
that that happens there, and gotto book all the big acts that
(10:14):
came into Hilton Coliseum thatwere the big stars of the day,
Elton John to whoever, and gotto and so that kept the
enthusiasm going um with all ofthat for uh for trying to stay
in television some way.
SPEAKER_01 (10:29):
Brilliant.
And so that you can't you can'tmention that guy a couple of
times, the guy that you said, ohyou can come over here.
So was that someone that youwere you you did you drop out of
mathematics at college or didyou complete it?
SPEAKER_02 (10:40):
I would have had a major if I'd have graduated in a
science major, uh, but I had adegree in journalism as a as a
sub major.
So yeah, um and it was aprofessor too who taught me that
it's better to have tried andfailed than to succeed at doing
nothing.
Yeah, and I thought I alwaysthought about that.
You know, that's that's a heckof a deal.
It's better to have tried andfailed than to succeed at doing
(11:01):
nothing.
So that's back to the conceptyou and I are talking about of
trying to get a lot of ideas andhaving a backup if one doesn't
work, but but you've got to trysomething.
If you don't actually act on it,you're never ever gonna succeed
at at having success in a in agiven endeavor.
SPEAKER_01 (11:18):
Yeah, brilliant.
So basically you had the submajor of journalism, and it was
in that you're like, you know,I'm good at talking, I'm good
with people, you know, I'm sortof a charming personality.
I could sort of make a careerout of that, and then you moved
over and and did radio and andsort of flourished from there.
SPEAKER_02 (11:35):
Brilliant.
I hate to tell you this, but youknow what my major is actual?
Because it was a science andtechnology college, I have a BS
in speech.
Bachelor of Science and Speechis actually my degree.
SPEAKER_01 (11:47):
BS and speech.
I love it.
And what did your what did yourdad think?
Was he kind of was he expectingyou to take over the farm one
day, or was he kind of like goforth and flourish, my son?
SPEAKER_02 (11:58):
Farming is tough.
And he just said, you know, Ithink you could make uh a more
steady career in in somethingelse, try it and and see.
You can always come back, youcan work summers, you can help
me.
But he said, see, you know, kindof see what you can do.
And once once you're on TV andyou come from a farm in a small
community where they didn't getto see people who are ever on
(12:19):
TV, then he was really happybecause everybody, I saw your
saw your son on TV today.
SPEAKER_01 (12:25):
So he was like, Yeah, I'm good.
I'm proud of myself.
Yeah, yeah.
Keep up your good work.
Did you because obviously on thefarm, I don't know what kind of
farm you guys had, was it withanimals and stuff like that?
Did that ever transition intoyour your zoo work?
SPEAKER_02 (12:39):
Absolutely.
When when when when I came outof having my own companies, I
was 50, and I guess you call itmidlife crisis.
Uh you uh I decided I I gottaget off the road.
I mean, I got the money I want,I've traveled what I want.
Uh, and they called and said,Hey, would you be interested in
helping us?
We're taking over the zoo fromthe city.
And I thought, well, I can'traising a giraffe can't be that
much different than raising acow.
(13:00):
And and really it wasn't.
Uh the only difference was thetigers we had, they're only 300
in the world, and if one of themdied for some reason, you know,
you're losing the species versusa cow, you can theoretically get
another cup.
But it was much, much like that.
But my whole concept was to goin and make the zoo something
different because you got everykid, we had every kid from two
(13:21):
to twelve.
We're going, they were alreadygoing to the zoo, they were
losing money.
The city was only charging fourdollars to get in, and uh the
zoo way down the road was doingit for$35.
Uh, and but the city didn't wantto hurt the kids, and so we
started doing crazy stuff.
And this is part of theentrepreneur things.
We had no money to to build anew exhibit or anything.
So I said, What do we have thatis uh that we already have that
(13:45):
we can use?
And I thought, wait a minute,all the animals poop, let's
let's do an exhibit, scoop onpoop.
So the kids could come in andthey could see all of the
different kinds of poops,elephant poop, giraffe poop, and
giggle and point, and thenthey'd go home and tell their
friends, and then everybody'scoming out.
So we started, you know,building that that uh that base
even bigger.
Then we said, well, but we gotto expand it.
(14:08):
Remember back to the diversitywhen you come up with ideas now
we can market them worldwide.
Why don't we have more youngadults?
Well, young adults, I don't wantto do this.
I did it when I was a kid.
Most people go when they're akid, when they take their kid,
and when they take theirgrandkid.
What do we get young adults in?
Well, what are young adultslike?
Booze.
So we decided to do a zoo brew.
So at night we open the zoo, nokids allowed, and you bring your
(14:32):
dates, you do whatever, we havea band, and we have all the
animals out, and oh, sopeaceful, it isn't a smoky bar.
And all of a sudden, we startedselling$200,000,$250,000 in
booze on these uh people comingin.
Isn't that crazy?
And and so you find ways to lookfor, you know, and then once you
have success, and the zookeepersaying we can't keep the animals
(14:53):
open at night, well, you know,we took some of that money and
gave back to them for enrichmentuh toys for the animals.
Now everybody was happy, and allof a sudden we grew, grew, grew.
We increased the price from$4.95to$9.95 because that still was
cheap.
And and they're saying, Oh, wedon't poor kids can't come in
this way.
And I said, Well, tell you what,they get in free.
So when they come up and momsays, kids, that's too
(15:15):
expensive, just let them inbecause we know the people from
the other zoo that's paying$25,they're gonna come over and
they're gonna be excited aboutthat price.
And all of a sudden, everythingjust lifted up.
And then as you have success,success breeds success.
The donors of the zoo who hadbacked down a little bit because
it was run down and not doingwell, started giving more, and
we did something called anendowment.
(15:36):
And nonprofits, you want to havea big fund that just the
interest off it continues youroperation, and that's a big one
in any operations.
You got to have cash flow, soyou got to have money to be able
to exist if you have a bad dayor COVID hits or whatever.
And so they started donating,and we raised about 15 million
in endowments, so that zoo'sgonna be around forever, and
it's become the second largestcultural attraction in this
(15:58):
area.
SPEAKER_01 (15:59):
Brilliant.
I I have to ask, with with withthe alcohol at the zoo idea, I
mean, you must have had somestories of drunken escapades,
people trying to climb into theelephant enclosure, and we uh we
we started with a lot of cops, alot of people watching
(16:19):
everybody, and it turned out tobe the opposite because instead
of when you go to a bar, it'senclosed, music's loud, and
everybody's pounding and havinga great time.
SPEAKER_02 (16:28):
This people came and just darn enjoyed themselves,
and we had some specialty nightstoo, which kind of added to it.
We had one night, a berry manlownight, because we had a zebra
that we needed to get pregnant.
It was a very uh an ext notextinct, but you know, not many
of that species were around.
And we got a male and female,and we waited till her gestation
(16:48):
period.
You can't say that until you'rea zoo director.
This gestation period was a timethat we we put the male in.
We knew that they would breedthat night.
So we had a berrymantalo night.
We played berry manilo music,told everybody if you're trying
to have a baby, come on out andhave a drink, and let's all get
together and watch the zebras goat it.
And I mean, again, the theearned the earned media, we had
(17:09):
all this free press, all thepeople that came.
Uh, you know, they they thoughtthat was a hoot, and all of a
sudden people start more peoplecame.
And we just became kind of Idon't want to uh we use the word
hip back in the day, but it youknow, it became the in place to
go.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
Yeah, it's kind of cool, kind of funky.
SPEAKER_02 (17:24):
You know, back to the scoop on poop, the other
thing that was fun is we figuredout that we have white-tailed
deer in our area that eat all ofour flowers and everything, and
it's tough to find repellent,but we figured out we tested it,
and tiger poop is a naturalpredator.
Now, a deer has never seen anIowa, a tiger in the wild.
Yeah, but when they smell thatfor some reason it repels them.
(17:45):
So we started selling tiger poopfor$25 a bucket, and we were
selling out of that left andright, and of course, that's a
renewable resource, right?
So we were way ahead of thiswhole renewable resource thing.
SPEAKER_01 (17:55):
Oh, that's amazing.
Uh yeah, you basically had thiswaste product and you just made
money from it.
Love it.
You got it, and and and thingslike that, like you know, coming
up with ideas like that.
Are you I is that somethingyou're kind of in the shower in
the morning going, Oh, that's agood idea.
Or are you kind of like in abrainstorm meeting with your
your senior management?
SPEAKER_02 (18:12):
I was out just walking in the zoo and thinking,
what the heck do we have?
What would people be interestedin?
I saw little kids saying, Oh,oh, look at that turtle, it's
pooping.
Good enough.
You just never know where you'regetting where where ideas come
from or or how to get them.
But that's that's what makesback to the success of making it
fun when one of those do work.
(18:33):
And honest to God, there's somany that I probably have that
that I didn't that didn't work,but no nobody remembers that I
said those.
SPEAKER_01 (18:43):
It must be a dream.
I mean, many people out there Iknow listening to this would be
working, running a zoo or justworking in a zoo would be an
absolute dream job.
And I was it a dream job foryou?
SPEAKER_02 (18:54):
It really was.
Uh mainly for the reason is thatyou were helping people, you're
helping kids, you're findingways that kids that couldn't
afford it.
We just tell the people at thefront desk, just let them in.
Just don't say anything.
Just say go on in.
You know, if the mom would say,Oh god, we can't afford it, to
you know, it's it's like DisneyWorld.
At Disney World, if you notice,they only in the past, now with
all the terrorism stuff, theyprobably have more, but they
(19:16):
used to only have one copsitting in the back room because
no one ever stole from theirfrom their uh area.
There were never fights becauseyou go to Disney World to have
fun, and that's the way the zoowas.
And we only had one exit.
So if we lost a kid, we wouldalways find them immediately.
Yeah, um, you know, we never wenever lost a kid.
Everybody came fun, everybodyhad happy, and if they weren't,
(19:38):
we gave them a little and theword spread about how neat this
new zoo was.
You know, I I uh another groupcame in, it was the LB uh G Q T
T K.
Everybody came, yeah.
They came in and said, Hey, we'dlost our location to have a big
Halloween party.
I didn't know what was going on.
Sure, you know, we'll give youan evening just like the
(19:59):
Zoobrew, we'll just shut it downand it'll be yours.
Wow.
So we had about four employees.
So I I walked out, and here's aguy in drag.
And I thought, oh no, if myboard of directors see this, uh
crap.
But we became great allies to beable to give them a private
place to enter be entertained,have fun.
(20:19):
Everybody loves animals, and wenow are accepted by all aspects
of the community.
Again, getting that bushelbasket of every color race creed
to come together because it wasa public public deal.
And so that's something that'llbe around for a long, long time.
SPEAKER_01 (20:37):
So one of the big things we love doing this
podcast is bringing folks who'vehad uh amazing, interesting, and
unusual careers, such asyourself, um, and really just
get them to relive that sort ofone singular, most unforgettable
sort of experience of theircareer.
And I know you've had so many,but um I mean which one sort of
(20:58):
stands out as as that sort of umreally exceptional experience?
SPEAKER_02 (21:03):
The one that really kind of set the end of my career
uh in motion uh was the EddieTipton case.
And that was a gentleman whodidn't work for us but worked
for a vendor of ours who uh whowrote programming code uh for a
one of our lottery games thatwould automatically draw with a
computer the numbers.
(21:24):
Well, he put in a code thatwould allow him one time every
year uh on a given date uh toknow the numbers within 200
combinations instead of twomillion or twenty million.
Yeah.
And he did it in uh Colorado,one of our other states, he did
it in uh Wisconsin before us,but he did it in Iowa, and he
(21:48):
was unlucky.
He walked into a store that hadboth video and audio.
He had hoodie on, he he wascovered up, so you couldn't
really tell who it was.
And so he bought it.
We figured out he had won 16million dollars, and nobody
showed up, and we couldn'tfigure out what was going on,
and it started getting reallycrazy because then all sorts of
(22:11):
weird people started saying,Hey, that's mine.
I think the the clerk stolemine, or you know, my brother
took it, and my husband's in themafia, and I know they took it,
and I get half of it, so youwatch for that if it comes in.
And then 11 months, about amonth before it was going to
expire, because no one hadclaimed it, no one actually had
it, and you got to have theticket to claim it.
Uh, we got a call, and the guysaid, I bought that ticket, and
(22:33):
because we had the video andaudio, we knew what it sounded
like, we knew it wasn't him, sohe created fraud.
So we got all the investigatorstogether and we started hunting,
and they just gave it up.
Well, who gives up 16 million?
Bill Gates wouldn't give up 16million.
SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
That's a red flag, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:48):
So uh the investigators started started a
case, and it took about four orfive years, and ultimately we
realized it's this guy whoworked for one of our vendors.
Um, and we finally busted him,and when we busted him, it took
a hot dog, two hot dogs, andBigfoot, along with the ticket,
to figure him out because hewhen he bought the ticket one,
(23:12):
he he was recorded video andaudio, and it was the audio, his
voice that people recognizedwhen we released it to the media
to say that anybody ever seen orknow this person.
But he bought two hot dogs, andhis brother got on the stand
when we were trying to get himconvicted and said that can't be
my brother because he don't eathot dogs.
Well, the guy weighed 350pounds.
(23:32):
So everybody kind of laughed,and the associated press put
that out on the national wiresand went back to the hometown.
And we figured and somebody downthere, a FBI person, called and
said, Hey, that guy's brotherwho was on the stand, he's he
won uh a jackpot in Colorado, soyou should be looking at him.
So here's here's the moral ofthe story.
If you are ever going to doanything illegal, don't use your
(23:54):
cell phone, don't lose yoursocial media, because we took
all everybody's contacts thatwere involved in all their
social media contacts, all theircell phone, and immediately
found five jackpots, connectedthem all together that had been
one across the United States andbusted them.
Now, the moral of that story isum because lotteries are run by
each state, so there are 48different lotteries in America.
(24:16):
Australia will have a lottery,England has their lotteries.
Uh, but the other lotterydirectors were saying, hey, let
this lie because you're gamblingwith our$80 billion industry.
People are gonna not want toplay if you're saying it might
be rigged.
But my governor, the people incharge of our state, and I said,
(24:36):
whatever we do, we're gonnaspend whatever it takes to find
this because we want the gamefair and honest.
And so I learned a real keyvaluable, because you know I'm a
promoter, you can tell thatalready.
Promoter.
Every time we got on the air, wesold more tickets, ironically.
And ultimately, um, we bustedit, uh, we figured it out, and
he they pled guilty all threethree different people.
(24:57):
The guy who who did theprogramming, his brother, and
his uh best friend, who all hadbeen claiming tickets all over
the all over the U.S.
And the moral of that is istrying to figure out when your
when your ethics do you do youkeep your gut in trying to do
that?
And of course, I'm a promoter,so I'm always on the air.
And every time I'm on the air,we're selling tickets, and
(25:18):
they're saying, just shut up.
Just you're gonna hurt us if ifyou if you don't if you just be
quiet, it might be a lot betterfor the industry.
But ultimately, did it work?
It worked because we found themguilty.
We had some we found theevidence, they pled guilty, they
went to prison for up to 25years, and lo and behold, the
lottery industry went from an$80billion industry to about uh um
(25:41):
$110,$105 million.
It went way up.
So it worked because people arethinking, you know, should I
gamble you know online off uhMaltese or you know, wherever
people are doing it uh online,or or would I be better to do
with my lottery because at leastthey're looking at it.
And I think people peoplefigured out hey, it's better to
(26:03):
do it that way.
And so it it was gut-wrenching.
You talk about you know, nightswhere you're just saying, What
the hell am I doing?
And and the only thing thatworked is we got closure.
Usually, if there's a rape, amurder, uh, uh, an assault, you
don't get closure because it'sappealed all the way up.
But our prosecutor andinvestigators were so good by
(26:24):
the time we got through it all,we had enough evidence for them
to say, Yep, I did it, and theyall cut deals and went to prison
for a while, and I think they'reall out and doing their thing
now.
So that that is probably whatI'm best known for today.
Yeah.
Uh in that, and it was kind of afailure in that he was doing it.
Why we didn't somebody didn'tfind it before.
(26:46):
It wasn't our employee, it wasit's other companies that does
it.
But uh uh on the other hand, weturned it to success when it was
all said and done.
So that is rewarding.
SPEAKER_01 (26:55):
I wonder just with the Tipton case, I just want to
sort of go back and reframe itslightly.
So, I mean, just take us from itwas an everyday day at the
office, you know, you're runningthe lottery, you know, in Iowa.
What was the first that youheard about this this issue,
this potential problem?
SPEAKER_02 (27:12):
First, I heard that we had a problem.
I was on a cruise ship nearBelize.
And ironically, the people whoclaim this ticket uh formed a
corporation in Belize.
Well, that should tell yousomething because that's where
most of the tax fraud happens inBelize.
Yeah.
I'm on the cruise ship, I get acall, and it's from the from the
security and the publicinformation officers, hey, we
got a problem.
(27:32):
We got somebody that's that uhsays they they want it, but
doesn't sound or look likeanything that we have here, we
don't think we should pay it.
And I said, Don't pay it.
We'll take it to court and letthe courts decide.
Then because if you pay it,you're never gonna see it.
unknown (27:47):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (27:47):
Um that's the first thing I heard.
And I'm worried because I'm I'mworking for the state and it's
costing nine bucks a minute tobe on this darn telephone on the
ship, and I'll catch hell forthat, too, you know, spending
their money unwisely somehow.
Um so anyway, we came back andthen we went through the the the
two or three weeks, and thisperson didn't show up.
(28:08):
They sent it back to a guy inNew York who was a lawyer who
said, Okay, I'll I'll try toclaim it.
And that's when he came in anhour and a half before the
ticket was to expire.
If they think through thisthing, it's the stupidest thing
because that just raises allsorts of red flags.
But you wait till an hour and ahalf for the ticket's going to
expire to claim it because youthink, well, maybe somebody else
had at some point, and then andthen they give it up, and so
(28:30):
giving it up even made it moremore weird because it and it
just kept but then it was kindof fun, and then it was
mysterious, and then all of asudden you realize you're about
to put somebody in prison, andwhat if they are with what if
this deal is with the mafia andI end up with a horse head in my
bed?
You know, there's some scarytimes in those those kinds of
jobs that you're dealing withmillions and billions of
(28:52):
dollars.
It's uh yeah, you try just to doit as you and I do, wake up
every day and do your thing, butyou never know.
SPEAKER_01 (28:58):
I I hadn't even considered that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:00):
So I mean, that was something that you were yeah,
you had in the back of your mindwas like well, if we were
investigating one of thecorporations that claimed
because two people won the onein Colorado, uh, beside this
guy's friend, and and the otherone was a question of luck
spelled in Spanish, and it wasbased in um Las Vegas.
(29:20):
So I thought this this could be,and so you realize when you're
in a management position totrust your investigators, try
not to get your nose in theinvestigation.
That was tough for me because itwas so interesting.
And you know, let let them doyour job because you get your
nose in it, you could you couldscrew it up.
SPEAKER_01 (29:40):
Gee, so so I mean, but I mean I didn't I I didn't
even have thought that you knowthe mafia being involved.
There's so much as you say, it'sone of those things.
There's millions and millions ofdollars at stake.
It's so tempting for not justeveryday people like Tipton and
whoever but for gangs andorganized crime to try and you
know get their fingers into thisand you had thought about the
(30:02):
potential threat and on you knowviolence against yourself for
for messing up.
SPEAKER_02 (30:07):
Yep.
Me and people that were weredoing investigations.
Um but it's a little different,I think, being in the Midwest.
We just don't have the kind oforganized crime that you do if
you were sitting in New York orLas Vegas.
And at least that's myperception.
Whether it's right or wronghere, I may be saying this and
some mafia guy come visit metonight to say, hey, you got to
(30:27):
straighten that stuff out.
So you know you you just uh youtry to do the job the best you
can you try to do it as honestas you can and that goes back to
your farm upbringing in that youknow integrity was always a big
deal you know because everybodyknew you and if you messed up
that was the rest of your lifeyou're stuck there on a farm
they you know wouldn't trust youthey wouldn't do business with
(30:48):
you.
SPEAKER_01 (30:48):
Yeah yeah yeah so basically you had someone that
wasn't your direct employee butsomeone within the system of the
lottery who was responsible foryou know essentially you know
coding the system from from anumber generating system came up
with a clever scheme of his anduh and then it was basically
basically because he'd done itmultiple times but it was just
(31:09):
the poor execution on thisparticular event.
SPEAKER_02 (31:14):
Chris here's the here's the lesson I learned
because I did a lot of researchbecause I do a lot of speaking
now on how to prevent this dealyeah there are three things that
get people to steal internallyAmerican certified fraud
examiners that number one isthey need the money.
You know hey you know and that'sI got caught gambling or I've
been drinking too much doingdrugs got a divorce I need the
(31:34):
money and I need it now.
But if you don't have the secondone which is opportunity you
won't steal because that's wherethe checks and balances come on.
That's why you want somebody towrite the PO and somebody
different to sign the check youknow in simplistic terms.
So you got to have the financialneed then the opportunity he had
the opportunity he wrote thecode he combined the code he had
(31:55):
all the keys to the kingdomthere wasn't anybody overseeing
him in that because they had avery small operation for that
company doing that.
And the third one which is thetoughest oversee is rationale.
At what point does the devil onyour shoulder say you deserve it
Sue over there is making moremoney than you are.
You deserve more money you youhave the right to go ahead and
steal.
When those three are combinedyou're pretty ripe for fraud and
(32:17):
that's why you have oversightand controls and checks and
balances within an organization.
And that's really important insmall businesses if you think of
small school districts or smallbusinesses where the business
manager writes the checks writesthe purchase orders and the and
the boss that takes too muchtime to get this out of my out
of my face you just do it.
SPEAKER_01 (32:37):
That's where you get taken yeah so it's it's it's and
basically I guess after that itwas just re um refining the
system that was in place alreadyto make okay we see there's a
there's a there's a gap here wegot to fill that gap and make
sure that never happens again.
SPEAKER_02 (32:51):
Yeah they yeah and he would the you go almost all
will try a small one first.
So he did Colorado got six sevenhundred thousand dollars and
then he did it in Wisconsin gotanother nine hundred thousand
but this big jackpot was comingup and it was going to be on the
date that his his code couldwork and I I don't want to split
this money with anybody becausehe was having other people do it
(33:12):
for him.
So he wasn't recognized becausehe was prohibited because he was
a vendor of the lottery by ourlaw from buying tickets so he
disguised himself and went andbought it himself but our law
says whoever buys it has toreveal who bought it and what
they look like and he hadsomebody else say it but because
we had video and audio we knewit wasn't him yeah yeah
(33:34):
brilliant I have to ask as aentrepreneur self and someone
who sees and appreciates uminteresting creative ideas and I
know this was a criminal act wasthere ever a small party that
was kind of impressed ohabsolutely absolutely and and
you know this guy uh headed theheaded the uh security
(33:56):
operations for uh this companythat did it and we had seminars
all the time and one of thethings that everybody does is
you get together and say Iwonder how somebody could do
that or I heard that in Europethey were doing this you know
wonder could that happen to us?
What do we have for the checks?
So every time they got togetherthey were thinking about what do
we do to do it.
And he was leading thosediscussions.
(34:17):
So if someone came up and saidwell I wonder what would happen
if this happened he just took itback and did it.
And so you know we we all dothat and I think that's how
frauds actually get startedbecause uh you know the people
who are in charge of the fraudare looking for the loopholes
because they're trying toprevent it.
And if they found that you knowif you're trying to prevent uh
people bringing uh dope overfrom the over the border uh
(34:39):
bringing in fentanyl or whateveruh what if I could figure out
how to get a little bit of thatonce I arrest somebody to go
sell I mean it's it's a it's atypical routine.
Yeah yeah well there'sentrepreneurs and then there's
criminal entrepreneurs brilliantum all right well I think just
more generally about your sortof career reflecting back on on
(35:00):
everything um as I said you'veyou've been leadership positions
in many of these kind of thingswhat what would you say is the
sort of secret source there ofof being a good leader a good
CEO a good president of acompany I think you learn that
from others my first boss in thecable the ones be fair to people
(35:23):
um you know try to be open yeahif if they know what's expected
if you people know what'sexpected they'll do much more
for you um so tell them here'sour goal here's what we're
trying to do if you've got ideashelp us out you'll be rewarded
if you can help us out um I Ithink it it is a good way um
trying to understand the wholediversity we talked about has
(35:46):
been in the limelight over thelast few years at least in
America and I think uh learningthe new ideas being able to
adapt and and not if you've goteverybody around the table that
look like you you probably aremissing big big big
opportunities so trying to uhtrying to look for other avenues
so that you're not just sellinga widget to a certain area
(36:07):
you're selling a widget to thisand something else that comes
from that widget to a whole newgroup of of of uh people who do
that I think but most of allit's trying to be kind I mean
you you try to be fair in inwhat you're doing and when you
have to make a decision try toexplain what that decision is so
that it seems like and and tryto do the best you can in doing
(36:31):
that you know give back to thegiving back to the community is
fun and and handling it but youknow in family I don't know I I
I do fail in in relaxationthough I wish I could do what I
see others being able to do ofbeing able to go to a beach and
not be thinking about but I I goto a beach and I look over and
say I wonder if anybody everinvented a different kind of
(36:53):
beach ball you know uh I wonderyou know I'm always I'm always
thinking what would be whatwould be the next thing I should
try to get involved in I thinkwait a minute you know I've
already done it what the hell amI doing here?
SPEAKER_01 (37:03):
And obviously like you you're retired now but you
still probably keep a yourfinger on the pulse with what
things going and I guess forpeople that are moving into this
similar career trajectoryentrepreneurs CEOs heads of
companies what do you see is thethe biggest difference in
today's landscape compared towhat it was like when you were
(37:23):
kind of working in in uh in thatbusiness?
SPEAKER_02 (37:26):
Well I think you've got to find an expertise that
you know you're not just comingout of college you're not just
gonna jump into somethingbecause you know it you you've
had classes that taught you howto do put two molecules together
to create a patent yeah so ifyou aren't you know that smart
or you're not going intosomething that technical then I
think you got to go to worksomewhere to show and get
associations with people and abusiness that you really enjoy.
(37:49):
You know if that let's talk thezoo if zoo's your deal and you
go and look at zoo then lookaround and see what do the
animals need what what kind ofvendors are here promoting at
the zoo and try to findsomething that gets your passion
so that you can learn thebusiness and then take that
knowledge to adapt.
If you just go in and say hey Iwent to the zoo the other day
and I saw that they had thesecoin things that you press and
(38:11):
they spend on 50 cents I'm gonnago start making those you don't
have any real background of youknow you're gonna be way behind
and doing and let somebody elsepay you and take a job so that
you can learn it first beforeyou go in and spend all your
money to try to learn it.
Interesting yeah I just it's youknow I've been seeing some stuff
recently where it's like um youknow it used to be that you go
(38:33):
to college get a degree jumpinto it um but it's more I think
there's more of anentrepreneurial mindset now with
a lot more opportunities outthere especially with the
internet social media people'sideas can just come from nothing
almost yeah and isn't it amazingyou know we did this documentary
on the on the Eddie Tipton caseand it amazes me in the old days
(38:56):
I'd try to get it on an HBO orsomething like that.
Today we put it on YouTubebecause it has 10 times the
audience of Netflix and we'vehad 8000 views in a month and a
half and it isn't like you'd getthem all the first week now
we're gonna have a million twomillion people here in the first
year and that's a wholedifferent aspect so you learn
all the different you'relearning all the time they could
(39:18):
we used to call it lifelonglearning but for me it's just
finding something you really arepassionate about and just
keeping your eyes open andfinding people associates who
are knowledgeable in it to helpteach you on on how to make it
work and then run like hell.
Brill um Terry Rich thank you somuch for taking the time I mean
at the end of these uh chats Ialways like to sort of say what
if you how how do people findyou how do people reach you how
(39:41):
you know you've got other stuffbooks and documentaries out
there what would you like totell people about yeah they're
they're all out thereterryspeaks.com t-e-r-r-y speaks
like talking dot com is a placeand the other is take a look at
the uh take a look at the uhjackpot america's biggest lotto
scam is uh is available onYouTube and that it's real easy
(40:01):
to find if you just do Lotto DocD O C Lotto doc like documentary
lotdoc.com it'll take you rightto it's about 45 50 minutes but
that'll kind of show you thethings that really messed with
my mind over seven or eightyears.
SPEAKER_01 (40:16):
Yeah I watched it this week it's fantastic it's
really interesting for anyonewho wants a deep dive on that uh
Eddie Tipton case and to findout more about how Bigfoot and
uh you know that sort of stuffgets involved then you can go
check that out it's a good doc.
SPEAKER_02 (40:32):
Sounds good.
Well this was the pleasure.
SPEAKER_01 (40:34):
Enjoyed talking to you Terry Hurtz thank you so
much for taking the time speakto you soon and that's it for
this week's episode a hugethanks to Terry again for
sharing his incredible storiesand a big thanks to you all for
listening.
If you want to see more fromTerry you'll find links to his
(40:54):
website books and thedocumentary Jackpot America's
biggest lot of scam in the shownotes and on the episode page at
noordinarymonday.com.
And as always you can find extraclips and visuals from this
episode across our socialsInstagram, LinkedIn, Facebook
and more next week we areheading from the boardroom to
the open skies.
(41:15):
My guest is Heidi Porch, anincredible pilot who survived
every aviator's worst nightmarea mechanical failure that caused
her to crash her plane into theocean miles from land or help.
It is a mind-blowing story somake sure you're subscribed so
you don't miss out on thatepisode.
Now before I go more on this newsegment that I'm going to be
(41:36):
introducing at the end of eachepisode I'll be sharing a short
listener story.
It could be one memorablemoment, a funny mishap or just a
surprising twist from yourworking life.
So you can either write them inor send me an audio clip on the
website but just keep it short Ithink one to two minutes is what
we're aiming for.
And you can stay anonymous Idon't need to add your name but
if you want to just throw yourname in and you'll also get a
(41:59):
shout out at the end of the showif it's read out.
To send them in head to noordinary monday dot com and
click the listener story page oryou can email hello at no
ordinary monday dot com withlistener story in the subject
line.
I'm sure there are tons and tonsof amazing anecdotes and stories
out there so I can't wait to seewhat you guys send in.
(42:21):
If you enjoyed today's episodeplease do two really quick
things for us leave a five starrating and review and tell a
family member or friend that'sit.
It really helps us grow the showattract more extraordinary
guests and inspires newlisteners.
And that's it this show isproduced hosted and edited by me
Chris Barron thank you so muchfor listening and have a great
(42:42):
Monday everyone
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