September 22, 2025 • 53 mins
Have you ever wondered how those incredible physical special effects in movies actually work? Not the CGI, but the real explosions, practical weather, and dangerous stunts that make your jaw drop? David Rigley-Williamson pulls back the curtain on the fascinating, challenging, and sometimes absurd world of special effects artistry.
From humble beginnings as an art student with no clear career path, David found himself building elaborate special effects for major productions including the Emmy Award-Winning Star Wars Andor, where he created many effects, like the massive memorial fountain on Ghorman in season 2 – a feat that took months of precision engineering. He even scored an acting credit as an X-Wing mechanic, allowing him to appear in the Star Wars universe he helped create.
The heart of our conversation centers on David's most incredible challenge: constructing an elaborate quicksand effect for a celebrity prank show in the desert. Picture a 20-meter square, 6-meter deep tank filled with water and cork granules, a custom hydraulic platform, and safety divers waiting in pitch-black water – all operating in 50°C heat. When celebrities drove their 4x4 vehicle onto what looked like innocent sand, they'd watch in horror as it began to sink and their driver disappeared beneath the surface. The engineering challenges, dangerous conditions, and logistical nightmares David faced during this 31-day shoot without a single day off will leave you astounded at what goes into creating these seemingly simple effects.
For anyone fascinated by filmmaking, interested in unconventional career paths, or simply curious about how movie magic happens, this episode offers a rare glimpse behind the scenes with one of the wizards who makes the impossible look real. Subscribe now.
Behind the Scenes from the Artem Quicksand shoot - https://www.artem.com/projects/ramez-goes-underground
Some of the reactions of celebrities to the pranks - https://www.hindustantimes.com/bollywood/shah-rukh-khan-almost-punched-a-prank-show-host-for-scaring-him-in-komodo-dragon-costume/story-vaFr9eZj5kY7eSF1uMMK3L.html
David's IMDB profile - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4894917/
If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a five-star rating and review, and tell a friend about the show.
WANT TO BE A GUEST? You can submit your own career story through our website at noordinarymonday.com or email us at hello@noordinarymonday.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're strapped into a 4x4, driving deep into the
desert, and then, out of nowhere, the car hits something
Quicksand.
The driver jumps out butvanishes beneath the surface.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
So then everybody in the car just starts panicking
because they're like where thehell has he just gone?
He's drowned in quicksand.
And then so they start tryingto climb out the roof of the car
and as they're coming out thisgiant lizard appears and it's
crawling towards them andspitting at them and stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
But what looked like disaster was in fact,
entertainment designed andconstructed for a prank show.
Beneath the sand lies a deeptank, a hydraulic lift and
safety divers hidden in pitchblack water.
And for this week's guest, itwas one of the most difficult,
dangerous and unforgettablebuilds of his career career.
(01:11):
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of no Ordinary Monday.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
I am your host, chris Barron,and each week I sit down with a
guest whose job is far fromordinary.
We explore how they got there,what it's really like behind the
scenes, and then I ask them torelive the single most
unforgettable experience oftheir career.
Now, if you're enjoying theshow, make sure to follow us or
subscribe, and that way youwon't miss out on any of the
(01:34):
incredible guests we have linedup for you.
And our guest this week is oneof the wizards who helps conjure
up movie magic, not with CGI,but with real fire, water and
effects.
From detonating double-deckerbuses in London to building
elaborate alien worlds on StarWars Andor, his job is to make
(01:54):
us believe it's real.
David Wrigley Williamson is aspecial effects artist whose
work has taken him from smallindie sets to Emmy award-winning
masterpieces, and he's evenpicked up a Star Wars acting
credit along the way.
And, as you heard in that intro, david's big story takes us to
the deserts of Abu Dhabi, wherea prank show turned into one of
(02:16):
the most cursed and difficultshoots of his career.
So stay tuned for a grippingbehind the scenes.
Look at what it takes to createthese effects and the
surprising challenges that comewith it.
You're listening to no OrdinaryMonday.
Let's get into the show.
All right, davidWrigley-Williamson, welcome to
(02:42):
the podcast.
How are you doing today, man?
Great to see you.
Okay, you too.
Thank you very much, man.
Your beard is looking majestic,as ever, I have to say.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
No, you too.
Mine is probably a lot whiterthan when you last saw it.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I think that I want to start.
I mean, we were housemates whenI moved to London way back in
the day when I was working andwe became good friends there and
I think that just before we getinto your stuff, I wanted to
share an anecdote for kind ofhow badass you are in some ways.
And the anecdote is when Iasked you to come and help me on
(03:23):
a documentary project for thebbc about hypnosis, do you
remember?
I do?
Yeah, so to give you to prefacethis, I was doing a documentary
for the bbc about placeboeffect hypnosis and I found a
dentist in glasgow who whooffered, um, essentially
(03:44):
drug-free wisdom toothextraction and funnily enough, I
couldn't find anyone who wascrazy or silly enough to do one.
And then we were in the car oneday driving somewhere and I was
like, oh, I'm struggling withthis.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
We were on the way back from climbing.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, we were on the way back from climbing.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
And I was like oh, my week's been really tough.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I can't find someone and you're like I'll do it.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, didn't.
Oh, my week's been really tough.
I can't find someone and you'relike I'll do it.
Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, Iremember I had like an annoying
wisdom tooth was growing at afunny angle and I never got
around to sorting it out at alland I was like, yeah, sure, why
not, that could be fun.
Uh, I obviously had absolutelyno idea what I was getting
myself in for, um, but yeah, itwas.
That was a hell of anexperience and you literally
like and again.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It's one of those things.
I wouldn't have believed itunless I was in the room filming
it.
You, you did.
There was nothing else apartfrom hypnosis.
Sat you in the chair going totrance and then literally
extracted a wisdom tooth fromyour mouth without anything, not
even a paracetamol Sweet.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I never really sort of believed in the stage show
sort of hypnosis, but I had apretty open mind.
I was like, well, let's seewhat happens.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, and your pain levels out of 10 never reached
beyond.
What was it?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
It was a two, like it was crazy.
You know what, if, if youstruggle with it, with the
injections and stuff, I I wouldrecommend it for sure.
Well, maybe have a little bitmore uh time learning the ins
and outs of it than I did, yeah,brilliant.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Well, the reason I wanted to tell that story is
because I think that that'ssomething that I would struggle
with, because and many peoplebut like, I've got a very
analytical brain and very sortof like not to say, you don't,
but I think that you've got amore artistic brain, you're more
open to things, and that sortof I guess leads me to like what
you've chosen or what you'vegotten into as a job, um, so I
(05:46):
guess I guess what is the mostinteresting way to describe what
you do for a living?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
well, I, so I work in special effects, film and tv,
uh, and it's basically like that.
So I do do physical effects andrather than CGI or anything.
So we, we create all of thephysical things that you have to
(06:13):
interact with, and that'sanything from like wind and rain
and or like a prop that has todo a very specific thing to
massive explosions and, yeah,it's, it's a prop that has to do
a very specific thing tomassive explosions.
Uh, and, yeah, it's, it's.
It's that sort of physicalinteraction with it.
That, um, yeah, it's, it's.
(06:34):
It's definitely the mostinteresting part for me.
Uh, and the, the, the, thecrazy things that you end up
doing.
Uh, is, is, is, yeah, I lovethat every day, is is a
completely different challenge.
Um, and, yeah, it's.
The project can be ridiculouslylong.
(06:55):
Or you and you've got loads oftime to do it, or you've you've
got 45 minutes and I need thatthing immediately so even even
on these big, big, massive,multi-million dollar projects,
like you would still.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
They've been planned in the planning, sometimes for
years.
Oh, you might have someone onsunday go like.
Oh, by the way, I've had a newidea.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Out of nowhere can we do this it could be that, or it
could even literally be.
You're in the middle of filmingand your director or whoever
just has it as an idea, andthey're like, oh, wouldn't it be
cool if we could do this, uh.
And and you're like, yeah, yeah, let's, yeah, sure, let's uh go
(07:37):
back to the workshop and seewhat we can, we can do.
And I think that's the bit thatI enjoy the most is the um, is
is that sort of problem solvingaspect of it, and it's how the
hell can we just grab all thesethings we have around us and and
make something of it, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
And what's some of the weirdest, coolest, most
incredible stuff that you'vebeen making recently on set that
you can tell us about?
Cause I guess some of thoseprojects that you're working on
now are kind of still underwraps and NDAs and stuff right.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yes, no for sure, Probably.
So the the thing that I thinkis the coolest thing I've worked
on recently would be so it wasseason two of Andor, the Star
Wars series, which is amazing.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Thank you very much.
I'm giving you full credit forit.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
By the way, no, no one else deserves yeah thank you
very much, but it actually justuh got nominated for an emmy
for special effects brilliantwell deserved.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Oh for special effects yeah is that your first
one?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
it's the first project I've ever been on that's
been nominated.
Yeah, oh, congratulations.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, thank you very much.
Yeah, I was amazed.
It was by far the biggestproduction I've ever been on,
and just every day on set youwere just in awe of the world
building that they created.
It was just absolutelyincredible, and so, my point of
(09:09):
view, it was a much biggerproject than I'd ever worked on
and I was given a lot moreresponsibility in terms of some
of the things we were buildingum, one of the first things that
I had to do.
So when you watch it in theseries, uh, I don't know, really
spoil it for anyone who's notseen it but the, so the, the um,
(09:30):
the goldman, uh, planet, yeah,the square that you see you can
see it in the trailers and stuffum, there's a big like memorial
fountain in the center of that,and that fountain we had to
make practical um, so it doesn'tlook like a lot, you don't even
(09:51):
think about it when you'rewatching it, but to make that
thing practical was incredibletask, wow.
And this thing was the size oflike as the size of like a 400
meter running track.
It was huge, it was absolutelyincredible.
And the end, what was amazingabout it is that the whole, the
entire thing, was built fromscratch alone.
(10:13):
It took I think it was nearlythree months to from start to
finish for that fountain alone,with me and another sort of four
or five people and there'snothing like.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
It's not.
You can buy any of this stufflike off the shelf.
It's all.
Every time you you have tocreate like unique solutions to
everything 100.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, so we, we had to build our own uh cool heater
and filter from scratch.
Oh my god, um, I did all of theplumbing stuff, so it was all
new to me at the time.
I've done a lot of other stuffin the past, but not of this
scale.
And then I had to design asystem where I could turn on and
(10:56):
off various different parts ofthe fountain oh my God, and make
sure that.
Well, one, you had this massivetank outside.
We had 20 000 liters because weneeded a top up, but you got
these massive tanks outside.
You have to keep on top of,like, how much water you're
pumping into the set as well ashow much you're pumping out, so
(11:17):
that you don't flood the set.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, um it's worth mentioning, like if, if anything
goes wrong, like if thefountain doesn't work on a set,
just give us a sense of likewhat's at stake, like what would
happen if you're in the middleof like an important take and
your fountain suddenly starts tooverflow or underflow or
something like what, how much?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
pressure is on to nail it it would be.
It would be well, millions andmillions and millions of pounds
wasted because, um, on, on thosesets we had like four or five
hundred extras, all you know,all writing in in the square.
You had, um, you know, tens ofstunt performers and all the
(12:04):
main actors and, uh, you knoweverything going on at the same
time and, yeah, you're just sortof operating it in a, in a
container at the back on radioand you've got no eyes on the
thing.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
So it's just yeah, do you feel that pressure it's?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
quite, uh, I I really enjoy it, like I really enjoy
being on set and seeing it allcome together and, uh, it's a
little bit of chaos every timeyou're doing something like that
.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
It's, yeah, it's really cool to see it all come
together for sure, did you everthink like I mean, stepping onto
a star wars set like must beabsolutely surreal every time
you do it.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
It really was.
It really was.
The bit for me was when we hadthat TIE Avenger in the forest
and we were doing nights forweeks and weeks and weeks doing
that sequence, and they werereally brutal nights as well.
It was cold, it was wet becauseit was heavy rain.
(13:05):
So you know, it was a prettymiserable time, but it was also
absolutely incredible becauseyou'd stand in there at night,
you've got all these lights onit and then you know we were
freeing the smoke in and justthat thing sat there.
It looked like you were in inthe scene.
(13:28):
It's just yeah, it'smind-blowing.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I loved it god, I'm so, so jealous.
Yeah, literally living people'sdreams, man I was um, I was
checking out your imdb before wejumped on and I noticed you
have one acting credit.
I do.
I do tell us what that?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I thought that'd be really funny um, basically on an
it right in andor, uh, there'sa few scenes where you have the
the big bangers and stuff withthe x-wings, and the Rebels are
getting ready and they wantedpeople in the background to be
welding and fixing things.
(14:10):
So we have these sparkgenerators that we use, that you
know, on a button, just sprayout a load of sparks, and yeah
so.
But the thing is we couldn'treally you can't hand over these
to anybody.
You've got to know how to usethem.
So it ended up that a few of usgot dressed up, we got put into
(14:32):
costume and yeah, so I becamean X-Wing mechanic for several
weeks.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
That's so cool man.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, so it was quite funny.
I was sat there watching it towhen I when I might turn up.
And yeah, you don't see my face, but you see my, like me from a
distance.
And then me, uh, just my back,welding away on top of the next
ring, sparking away.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah, you've definitely got more of a rebels
look than imperials look forsure, yes, and they're for sure
they did want.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
They were like they were unsure about the beard, so
I had they, like tucked it allunderneath and made it look a
bit shorter really which wasinteresting.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
I mean, come on, dude , like if they asked you to to
trim your beard, would you havedone it for I'd be like
absolutely not, I'm not doing it.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
No, you get somebody seriously wow the beard comes
before a star wars cameo.
That's, that's insane yeah, no,I, I'm all good, I'll keep it,
someone else can do the world.
It'll grow back man yeah, Iknow, but I haven't seen my chin
in years.
I'm all good brilliant,brilliant.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Well, um, I I like to ask folks to jump on about
their, essentially their, originstory.
You know, what did you want tobe as a kid, do you remember?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I haven't got a clue.
All I know is that I rememberbeing a kid and just I knew I
like I've definitely always beenI've always loved like taking
things apart and seeing how theyworked and building stuff.
Like my, my family have alwaysdone diy and, like you know,
(16:15):
done everything themselves, andI've always stopped out all the
time and I definitely rememberthat I had no idea what I wanted
to do in life.
I didn't have a clue to thepoint where I remember being at
school one day in art and theart teacher was like what do you
want to do?
I was like, no, I don't know,she's like well, why don't you
(16:37):
go to an art degree?
I was like, cool, I'll do that.
So yeah, I got intoLoughborough University and did
fine art and I actually loved it.
It's a great time, you know, Idid work really hard, I came out
with a good degree and yeah,but I still, even after leaving
(16:59):
uni, I did not know what Iwanted to do at all, know what I
wanted to do at all.
Um, I sort of specialized inphotography, um, and when,
towards the end, I did like aphotography um part of the
course and that for me was was Ireally enjoyed it.
So I, when I finished uni, Iwas like um maybe I'll become a
(17:19):
photographer, I don't reallyknow.
But at the same time I didn'treally want to be like a wedding
photographer or anything likethat.
I've never been very good attaking photos of people.
And then a mate at the time hewas like I'm moving down to
London because he was doing aPhD.
So him and a mate had a flatand they had a spare room down
(17:41):
in South Wimbledon and he waslike do you want to come?
I was like so I'm not doinganything else.
So I just went and I moved toLondon on a whim.
Wow, yeah.
And when I got there, I didn'treally have much of a plan
thinking back, no plan, in factto the point where I ended up
being on the dole for two weeks.
(18:02):
Oh, wow, because I was justlike well, now what do I do?
Yeah, yeah.
So I frantically searched for ajob.
I got a job in a pub.
I've done a lot of pub workbefore, so it was quite good,
easy work.
And it wasn't until, basically,my housemate shouted at me
(18:24):
saying what are you doing?
Like you're just bumbling alongworking in a pub.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Why don't you do something?
Speaker 2 (18:32):
You're probably like 20, 21 by this point I think,
yeah, I was early 20s, early 20s.
At this point I did four yearsat uni.
Yeah, yeah, something like that.
And he was like you're reallygood at building stuff, why
don't you what did you, you know?
Find a?
Find a job in, yeah, in setconstruction?
(18:52):
And I was like, what do youmean?
Because I'd it never evencrossed my mind that I could do
something like that.
Yeah, um.
So I, yeah, I sent some emailsabout um.
I literally googled setconstruction at the time.
Uh, and one of the first thingsthat popped up was um is this
(19:13):
guy, michael mulligan.
He was a like a bit of aone-stop shop for for um.
He was like an art director,construction manager, prop
master, all-in-one uh did oflike commercials, music videos,
things like that.
But his website was reallyimpressive.
He got all of the right thingson there.
(19:33):
So I was like this looks reallycool, big outfit.
And, yeah, I sent him an email.
He got back to me, needed toset hands on something.
It was a History Channel advert, I think.
And yeah, got there and he gotme straight to work.
We were like painting thestudio and then he was like I
need to make this little fire,just a gas fire, can you drill
(19:56):
some holes in this thing?
I was like, yep sure.
So straight away.
I think we gelled quite a lotthere and then, yeah, became his
, his right-hand man for, Ithink, for nearly four years
yeah, um, that's just off thatsort of random email that's
roughly.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
When we met as well, I think you were working with
michael yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
So it was still very early days of me working in the
film industry and, yeah, and itwas very much jumping in the
deep end because he was a, hewas a one-man band and he was.
You know, it was a hell of alot to to figure out.
I'd never worked in any filmrespect whatsoever, um, so it
was finding finding out the hardway of you know how, how it all
(20:39):
works and who's who, andbecause there is a bazillion
different people on the set,there's so many different
departments and knowing who'swho and who's responsible for
what.
And yeah, that was a lot tolearn, um, but it was good
because some, some of the thingswe did, because he was a bit of
a one-stop shop.
It it meant that we had to doeverything ourselves.
(21:00):
Yeah, you know, like one dayyou're building these little
props to do something, or thenext day you're building a sort
of an entire house for a film.
You know we did literallyanything, um, and then I I think
that like it sort of set me upreally well because we were
doing a um, a build for oak BootExperience or something I can't
(21:26):
remember.
It was basically this thingthat went around like Westfields
and you could go and win stuff.
It was a big like Wheel ofFortune and I built all of the
sort of set part of it and thewheel and everything but the
motor mechanism that made itspin when you press the button.
That was built by Artem.
It was a special effectscompany and they basically came
(21:49):
along, uh, to do something onthe motor and they saw that I
built everything and they'relike you know, if you've got any
downtime when you come work forus?
I was like, yeah, cool, so thatthat was basically I.
I can't remember when it was.
I think it was about early 2015was when I first started
(22:10):
working at Artem and, yeah, Ibasically never looked back.
Everything they'd built therewas amazing at the time.
You know, all different thingsunder the sun you can, you can
dream of.
It was a.
Every day was different.
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Um, yeah, because it was kind of like michael, as I
say, it was just like you know,small scale, one guy and you
basically building everythingyou know, doing a lot of stuff
and then our team was like nextlevel up I visited a couple of
times it's a big.
It was a big outfit, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah, it was yeah, yeah, it was a hell of a
learning curve, a whole new setof things to learn.
And you know because I'dobviously I've never done
anything like you know big firejobs, or you know we started
learning how to do pyrotechnicsand yeah, um, I remember was.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
It is artem that you.
There was a, a film that youwere doing was the jackie chan
one, or the the foreigner, theforeigner, where you blew up a
bus on a bridge somewhere.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yes and like yes, yeah, lambeth bridge in the town
, that's insane, like youliterally like rigged a bus to
blow up.
Yeah so it was, um, basically,we got this bus in uh into the
workshop and we spent a coupleof weeks stripping it all out
back to complete shell Needs tostill be able to drive, and then
(23:34):
we had to reinforce it becausethe lower deck of the bus had to
have about 20 stunt performerson it.
So the bus itself was actuallyhad people inside it when it
exploded.
Um, which was crazy.
Yeah so, but it was.
Yeah, it was quite, it was veryfar.
(23:55):
We stood on the bridge when it,when it went off, then it was
incredible to witness yeah,what's that feeling?
Speaker 1 (24:02):
seamlessly when you see it, when I mean when all
that work goes into a singleexplosion and it goes well like.
What is that feeling like?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
it's just.
It is definitely what.
What makes me love this job isjust that you can put months and
months and months of work intosomething for a single moment.
It could be a second um, but ifit works flawlessly it's
amazing, like I love doing.
One take wonders amazing.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
So you?
You start with michael smallset.
You're doing some good jobs.
You got recognized by artem,jumped over there for a bit
doing with artem and thensimilar thing happened again
when you jumped to star wars,was it yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
so definitely.
I got to a point in our termwhere I was just doing a lot of
the same, like similar jobs, andI really wanted to, you know,
get my teeth stuck intosomething, a bigger production.
But the thing is it's like it'sstill very much an industry
where if you you need to knowpeople, it's it's really tricky
(25:01):
to to get your foot in door.
They still don't really do CVsor anything.
It's word of mouth to get work.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Patience, also being good at your job, being patient
but also networking to a degreewhere you're meeting the right
people and the right time.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, for sure, I don't think I'm very good at
selling myself, but I do believein like hard work, and if you
always put as much effort as youcan into everything you do,
then eventually you'll getnotice, and I feel like that's
sort of how I've ended up whereI am um brilliant, because, yeah
(25:42):
, I've never been very good atnetworking at all like I've just
fallen into where I am now andI know I'm very lucky.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
But oh well, deserved as well.
Yeah, so, um, saying that you,you've done star wars, you've
done big films with big actors,you've done big explosions and
and all sorts of stuff you know,and, and in saying all that on
this show, we ask our guests tokind of bring us or share with
us that one sort ofextraordinary tale.
(26:12):
That sort of stands out amongstall the rest.
But so I mean, what is it inyour perspective?
What story stands out for you?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
what story stands out for you?
I think I think the one for mebar like the incredible worlds
that I've worked on in the starwars I think the one that still
stands out that was the mostintense, crazy job I've ever
been on was um, back in 2017, uh, and it was a Middle Eastern
prank show and I think from dayone we should have known how
(26:49):
crazy it was gonna be.
But so, basically, he's a he'sa famous artist that likes to
prank celebrities, and sobasically what he did was he got
a lot of celebrities andinvited them to go on like a
four by four sort of desertchallenge thing, and so they'd
(27:12):
come along and then they'd be.
You know, they wouldn't knowthat he's involved at this point
.
They've just been invited to goon a drive in the desert, yeah,
and so they'd have this driver.
They were in like a Land RoverDefender and driving over the
dunes and all this sort of stuffand then they come over the top
(27:34):
of this dune and there's like apretty innocent-looking patch
of sand.
So the driver drives down andgoes into it to find out that
it's quicksand and immediatelythe Land of uh land rover starts
sinking.
So he tries to.
The driver tries to get out tosort of help, but he just
(27:55):
disappears into the sand um,he's gone like, so he goes under
like he's.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
He's under the quicksand.
Yeah, gone, oh my god, uh.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
So then everybody in the car just starts panicking
because they're like where thehell has he just gone?
He's drowned in quicksand, uh.
And then so they start tryingto climb out the roof of the car
.
Yeah, um, and as they're comingout, this giant lizard appears,
um, and it's crawling towardsthem and like spitting at them
and stuff.
(28:27):
So everybody's just utterlypanicking at this point, like
what is going on, uh.
And then it's revealed ram islike he pulls off the head
because he's inside the lizard,it's a, it's a creature costume
and uh, he's like I gotta use it, I think, and everything.
All hell breaks loose at thatpoint.
But, um, jeez.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
So basically, the brief was like we want it.
We basically want to drive acar to quicksand, the driver has
to get sucked under and then abig lizard has to come out and
scare everybody.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Exactly, yeah so they broke it down a little bit and
an amazing creature effectscompany from la came over to do
the the lizard.
So they they built all of thecreature costume and put all
this stuff into it, but our taskwas to figure out how to make a
car disappear in quicksand.
Yeah, oh, it looked likequicksand, um.
(29:18):
So what we ended up doing wasum, one team in the middle of
the desert built this likemassive steel tank, so dug a
huge hole in the ground andbuilt this, this god, this tank.
That must have been I think itmust have been about 20 meters
square, this huge tank with likeslope sides, and then a really
(29:41):
deep bit in the middle yeah umand then.
So what we did was like how, howdeep, how deep is it?
I think it was a good sixmeters deep, it was it was
massive 20 by 20 in a six meterdeep tank, it's like central
tank, yeah, big square thing, um.
And then so what we did was webuilt this, uh, basically a
(30:04):
hydraulic scissor lift, but fromscratch, um, because the idea
was that the the scissor liftsdown in the bottom of the tank
and it is it like at its fullextinction level with the ground
, and then you have these tworamps that come out to the
scissor lift.
So imagine there's no quicksandthere or whatever.
(30:24):
The car drives down, drivealong these two ramps onto the
top of the scissor lift, comesto a stop and then, as the
scissor lift lowers, the rampsort of like detaches and the
scissor lift lowers the car down.
But like that bit was, you know, is a challenge to build a
scissor lift from scratch andalso not to say that you need to
(30:46):
get a very good driver to hitthe marks perfectly right,
because he misses a lift andeveryone's screwed yeah, he's
just in.
He just he did a couple of timesin the tests um, because we had
these little bumpers on theside of it, so it sort of forced
his wheels to go.
Yeah, but yeah, we we had somevery um tactical plants, uh,
that sort of showed him where togo.
(31:06):
Yeah and yeah.
So basically back in theworkshop, we built this scissor
lift and so it had to becompletely flat packable because
obviously we had to ship it outto Abu.
Dhabi.
Yeah, so just a lot of steelwork all welded together,
(31:28):
hydraulic rams and a hydrauliccontroller, and then we, we
tested it in the car park again,so set it all up, put a car on
top of it and send it up down afew times and a few days, um,
and then, yeah, packaged it allup and I think it took about two
months to get there oh wow,that's yeah.
Very much in advance went on aboat.
(31:49):
Yeah and then yeah.
So we built it all, got allprepared and we didn't really
know what we were getting in forin terms of what it was going
to be like.
None of us had ever worked inthe desert before.
I mean to be fair, thinkingback now, it was an absolute
nightmare even getting there.
(32:10):
I think it took us like 32hours to get to Abu.
Dhabi.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
What from the UK?
Speaker 2 (32:17):
From day one on that job.
When we left it was chaos.
So we got on the flight.
I think about an hour in,somebody in first class was
smelling smoke.
So're like right, we've got toland in Frankfurt.
So we dropped us off there, satfor eight hours till another
plane arrived, got on that planeand then a massive storm had
(32:38):
happened by this point.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah, that should have been your first, first red
flag that this shoot is cursedyeah, honestly, we were like,
okay, right, this is the startof the job.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
And then, yeah, then we got there and nobody had told
us that the hotel we werestaying at.
We thought it was a differenthotel, but the hotel we were
staying at was an hour and ahalf away from the location, and
every single day we were allpiled into these pickups and had
to drive across sand dunes forlike hours to get to the
(33:07):
location in the middle of thedesert yeah, it was.
It was crazy, uh, and they hadto like stop off and let all the
air out the tires.
He had grip on the sound yeah,all these local drivers take you
up and over the sand dunes Imean the desert.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
The desert is massive .
I mean I was there recently.
It is massive in that area,like I mean why would they?
Do you know why the locationproducer picked like some random
spot?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
The particular place that they'd found was actually
quite close to a very, very nicehotel, like a really really
like whatever it is now six-starhotel, and that was where they
were helicoptering in all thecelebrities too.
So they start here let's go onyour sort of desert drive here,
(33:56):
but where we was staying wasmiles away, uh, and it was a
nightmare to and from.
So day one we were like allvery hot and bothered.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Uh got to the location and this is summertime
as well, right, yeah, it was 50degrees c someday, oh jesus, it
was utterly like we were notprepared for that whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Like most days it was high 40s, but some days it was
50, incredibly, that's insane,dangerously hot, yeah.
So we got there and all of theequipment had been sort of
unloaded and by that I meanthrown off the side of a lorry
into the sand.
So stuff was just and it hadbeen there for like a week
before we got there.
So it was covered in sand.
(34:39):
We had to like dig all the bitsout and we were like what is
this?
And then it wasn't even quitein the right place.
So we had to load it all ontothis massive, like it looked
like something out of Mad Max ahuge lorry I've never seen
anything so big in my life loadit all onto that and drive it up
over the dunes to the location.
(35:00):
And by that point the this localcrew had started building, like
digging a hole and building thetank and whatever.
So we just turned up to thismassive metal hole in the ground
and was like right, you've gotto assemble this scissor lift.
Yeah, um, and yeah, we.
So we got cracking with thatand everything together.
Uh, day one, they kind offorgotten us that we were there.
(35:24):
So it was just me and two otherguys in the middle of the
desert with a couple of localworkers and the.
The production team had drivenoff to go do something else.
Uh, but it was hours, hours andhours in the middle of desert
until they came back for us andwe've just been working away, uh
, and we're like this is toomuch.
(35:45):
So from that point on we, everyday we went back to the nice
hotel and and uh had a rest for,like the, the hardest part of
the day for three hours becauseit was just too much, and then
you work a bit later into thenight but we we never sort of
realized it was going to be likethat and it was just so
grueling, really, reallygrueling, and um and the heat
(36:08):
just takes it out of you,doesn't it?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
honestly?
Speaker 2 (36:11):
you just you're lifting heavy bits of steel,
yeah, and then you know loweringit down in and bolting all
together.
Um, but I, it was quite bad.
I I got really sick on like daythree.
I got really bad food poisoning.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Maybe you got food poisoning yeah, that was.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
That was really tough if they didn't.
So I was out for a couple ofdays and, uh, so, um, one of the
guys at the ring of washingtonhe was like you've got to send
some more people, we can't justdo this with two of us yeah, um,
so a couple more of us came outand they ended up, you know,
building it all, and so the theplan for it was you get this
(36:47):
tank, you go, this is the liftwhere the car drives on to, and
then, in order to make it looklike quicksand, was you fill it
full of water?
Yeah, and then on the top ofthat, you float, um like cork
granules.
Yeah, um, so you can get themin all various different sizes
and whatever, but there's onethat, at a distance, looks like
sand, um, so it was convincingwas it like if you, if you were
(37:10):
just driving over the top of it,you're like you wouldn't really
notice.
It was yes something different,the one that, the one we got,
was like it's a bit darker, yeah, but what we ended up having to
do was, uh, like spread it outacross the desert a little bit,
yeah, just to sort of try andblend it in.
So it just looked like a bit ofa because we put like some
trees in there, like palm treesand things.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
So it was a different space, a wood patch.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, as not just yeah.
Exactly Something to look at, Isuppose, jeez.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
So you basically got this like 20 by 20 and a six
meter deep tank filled it withwater up to I mean, how deep was
the cork layer Up to about?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
two foot from the top , so it was quite a thick layer
of cork.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
So two feet of cork.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah, it was.
I cannot remember how manyhundreds of bags of cork were
emptied onto this top of thewater, but obviously because
it's like the tank wasn'tperfectly sealed and also
incredibly hot, so every day anew tanker of water would have
to come and top it up, becauseit sunk down a little bit.
Um, but yeah it was.
It was incredible.
(38:12):
You couldn't.
You couldn't see the edge ofthe tank.
We all fell in it at least once, because you're just walking
along, because you have to blendin the edge, yeah, um, so like
the director fell in once, ramezfell in.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
You know, it's like when you fall in like, is it
easy to swim like you put theedge of the tank?
When you fall in like, is iteasy to swim like you can keep
yourself afloat, or is it like?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
it was.
It was so the the wider part ofthe tank was shallow enough
that you could stand up, okay,yeah, um, so you know that you
wouldn't go too deep.
If you went to the center wherethe sizzle lift was, you would
go under, um, yeah, and so forthat, well, and and for the, the
bit where the driver disappears, they basically had two
(38:55):
specialist divers and they camein because they're they're
trained, because this is pitchblack there's no lights, like
cave diving completely honestly.
Um, I think they tried to put acouple of little early delights
in there, but it just didn'twork.
The the dust from the cork hadjust settled in the water, so
the guys like the hand in frontof her face and, um, yeah, so
(39:18):
they had these divers, likethey'd start the day, they'd go,
get ready and whatever.
I'm like, right, okay, we'reready to go, and they get in the
water, just disappear, and thenfor how long?
of them.
So I thought for like an houror so at a time because I think
we did two.
We did two episodes a day, yeah, um, so yeah, they just just I
(39:43):
don't know how they did it itwas incredible and they'd get in
.
There's been complete andthey'd wait because there was no
radio communication or whatever.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Oh my, God, so dangerous and the water was 50
degrees.
I guess the water was like hotas well.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I think it was warm.
For sure it's from the ambienttemperature, but it wasn't hot
because the cork sort ofinsulated it, yeah, fair.
So it, the cork sort ofinsulated it, yeah, fair, um, so
it wasn't like bath water orsomething, no, but it also was
grim, yeah, like they putdrinking water in it, but
(40:18):
there's no real filtrationsystem.
So within days it had gone greenor the algae immediately grew
on it, yeah, and then we justcovered it up, so it wasn't the
best conditions, um, and yeah,they basically had to wait down
there.
So one of them was a safety guyon one side of it, just in case
anybody fall in, you can helpthem out, yeah.
And the other one, um, he wasthere so that we had this mini,
like mini scissor lift.
(40:39):
It's meant for, like, uh,fixing your motorbike or
whatever so we bolted one ofthem to the bottom.
Uh, so where the driver gets out, you can get out onto this lift
and then we can lower it down.
Yep, so he goes into the waterand, um, yeah, so basically one
diver's waiting there for the.
You can tell when this cardrives onto this lift you know
it's noisy comes to a stop, sohe knows the action, he knows
(41:02):
about how long the time it'lltake until the guy steps out.
As soon as he steps out, hesort of grabs his leg so he
knows he's there.
Yeah, then sizzler starts goingdown and then he just pulls him
under and hands him a regulatorand they both just hide hide in
darkness.
Yeah, and uh, it was.
Yeah, so, from it took us a few, you know, a couple of weeks to
(41:23):
build everything and we didn'twe, we didn't have a day off.
We didn't stop because it wasjust too much to do.
Yeah, um, I think we ended upworking like 31 days straight,
uh, throughout the whole thing,because we were building
everything.
There's lots of delays, youknow, sick or whatever, yeah, uh
(41:44):
, and then, yeah, then the shootand start for filming two
episodes a day.
It was just go, go, go, um tothe point where we had to have a
spare uh vehicle.
Yeah, so we'd prepped all thevehicle and I drilled loads of
holes in it so it'd sink niceand quickly.
Um, but there was a, there wasa guy there, uh, a maintenance
(42:05):
guy that would basically takethe car back to a workshop and
clean it all out and get itrunning again, because they've
just sank it in a tank of waterand cork and everything, yeah.
Yeah, you'd open up the bonnetand it was just full.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
So you had to jet one .
When you're sinking the car.
How deep is the car going?
Like up to the windows, Like isthe water coming.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
The car completely disappeared.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
The car completely goes under.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
It completely goes under.
So by the time that, like thecelebrities are panicking and
start to escape and they're onthe roof, and then you don't
know what they're going to dothey just jump off the side or
jump towards the trunk and getout of this thing.
Oh, they're panicking.
And then the car's gone tryingto get out of this thing and
they're panicking.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
And then, yeah, the car's gone.
Oh jeez, so did you have any?
Because you've only got twodivers in the water.
Yeah, so did you have anycelebrities that did freak out
and go?
I'm just jumping and trying toswim for it.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
There's quite a few definitely that tried to run
away and just get out.
But luckily the way the tankwas made that if you jumped off
the side of the car you werealways jumping into the shallow
part so they could stand up itwould still make them jump,
they'd jump out and they'd go upto the dodgers in this cork and
then they're just flailing totry and escape.
I think it was.
(43:25):
I think, being where it was it?
Speaker 1 (43:30):
uh, that the health and safety was a little lax, for
sure, um, but it's is that um,the the sort of closest you've
ever been to be like, but Iguess you're still fairly green
so you can be like.
You know if this is if I was onthat job now I would walk off,
yeah you would just be like Ican't this.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
This was like sort of what would have been maybe
three years into me working ineffects, so I'd obviously been
in the industry for a littlewhile.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
But yeah, what is?
What is the main?
Speaker 2 (44:05):
the main things that you took from that sort of crazy
experience yeah, I think themain thing is just being able to
, like, push through all thecrazy things that are happening
and still be able to get the jobdone.
And yeah, it was a hell of achallenge that it was.
Yeah, it was really difficult,but looking back on it, I'm
(44:29):
still glad I did it like, yeah,it was crazy, yeah, and I've
never had to have theopportunity to go work in the
middle of the desert somewhereand be part of something that is
like that was brilliant.
But yeah, I don't think I'd doit again, or certainly if it was
(44:49):
on a production.
yeah, I'd like to do it a bitsafer.
Yeah, and I'd like to.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Maybe do it in the wintertime rather than the
summertime.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, so you've done Star Wars.
You know two big Star Warsseries, yeah, and other things
as well.
I mean, where do you go fromhere, and other things as well?
I mean, where do you go fromhere In terms of projects you
want to look towards in thefuture, or if it's a project or
maybe even there's a particularspecial effect you want to do,
(45:21):
what's the future looking likefor you?
Speaker 2 (45:28):
There's a bit of a bucket list for me of things I'd
like like to work on.
The main one is I wouldabsolutely love to work on a
bond.
Yeah, that's, that's thepinnacle for sort of uk uh
production for me.
Yeah, I'd absolutely loved,because I think that's one of
the things that sort ofsubconsciously drew me to this
is as a kid watching Bond andall his gadgets and stuff, it
(45:50):
was just absolutely incredible.
And, yeah, to be able to likeI've worked with the guy that's
built all the gadgets for allthe Bonds in the past.
He's an incredible man that youknow made all the bits and bobs
and all the guns that flip outthe lights and all these little
gizmos and gadgets, and I'm likethat's what I want to do.
You know, made all the bits andbobs of the guns that flip out
the lights and all these littlegizmos, gadgets, and I'm like
(46:11):
that's what I want to do, youknow, yeah, and I think that
would be an absolute dream jobfor sure.
Um, but I've definitely foundmyself like I'm sort of
specializing in quite intricatethings, uh, like building
flamethrowers and things likethat, which is really fun.
I didn't think that when I wasburning things as a kid that
(46:33):
it'd become my job, um, but yeah, no, it's, uh it's.
It's become a very fun place,uh, to work and literally, yeah,
I don't.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Working in a toy shop most of your career, yeah every
day it's like make this thingbe that okay cool, let's grab a
load of bits and smash it alltogether.
It's great yeah um.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
So I always like to ask sort of people, um, towards
the end of the show, just abouttheir advice for anyone who
wants to follow in yourfootsteps but may not have even
a clue where to start.
What advice would you give topeople who want to try and do
what you've done?
Speaker 2 (47:18):
So I actually got an email from my old school saying
what do you do for your career?
And so I think I'd really liketo, you know, go back to my
school and and just try andsocial people, what's out there,
because I don't think it wouldbe very good.
I don't really like talking infront of people but, um, I think
(47:41):
that it'd be really coolbecause even if there's just one
kid that hasn't got a clue whatthey want to do in life and
doesn't understand, you know,not very academic or whatever,
but is just creative that thereare so many things in film you
can do, and I just think that,certainly for people that are
(48:02):
creative, there definitely needsto be more awareness of all the
different things you couldpossibly do you know, um, even
people that are not even peoplethat are already like in an
industry outside of film.
Like we have plasterers andchippies and you know painters
(48:25):
and yeah.
So you don't need a degree, notat all, like.
Like I know quite a few peoplethat have done the special
effects degree, um, and it givesyou a good like basic
understanding.
But basically, if you've gotyour head screwed on and you you
just want to get stuck in, youdon't need a degree at all to to
(48:45):
work in film.
You just want to.
You know, come do somethingcreative and I think the there
are a lot more avenues thesedays of getting in contact with,
with various things, but Istill think the best way is just
get some some contact detailsand and send some emails and
(49:06):
just be like I really want to bepart of this industry and can I
come try it out?
And nine times out of ten, wealways need more people.
We gotta owe it.
We're always on demand and ifyou, you know if we can get a
trainee in, that's just superkeen and you know you could be.
You know, never gone to uni 18,come straight in and and go
(49:31):
from there and yeah, I reallywish I'd been able to do that,
because I don't think I can'teven remember how old I was when
I came into effects.
You know like mid-20s before Ifound it, you know, so I'm I'm a
good seven or eight yearsbehind some people.
Wow, yeah, yeah, I just yeah.
(49:54):
There definitely needs to bemore awareness in schools about
other jobs you can do.
You know it's tough.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
It's really really tough, because you know, doing
this podcast, you become awareof just the sheer variety and
immense landscape of differentways you can make a living it is
my and I don't even know howthe careers counselor even
scratches the surface whenthey've got you know 300
(50:23):
students to talk to or whatever,or work with.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
I don't need to yeah, but also I'm definitely one for
just not putting too muchpressure on yourself.
Like you don't need to know at18 what you want to do for the
rest of your life.
It's uh, also you don't need todo something for the rest of
your life.
Well, I don't know why peoplesay that, yeah, like, careers
evolve.
You're like, just, if you don'tlike it, do something else.
(50:45):
Yeah, um, I think, well, Idon't know, maybe I'm just lucky
in that respect that I could dothat.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
But well, yeah, I think that anyone, anyone who
loves getting up in the morningand doing what they do is is
extremely they've won.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
They've won life yeah , for sure, I know I am very
lucky in that respect, but yeah,brill.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
Dave, absolutely lovely to speak with you.
Um, at the end I always sort ofsay um, is there anything that
you would like to plug, or anysocials, or even films or shows
that you've worked on that youwant people to go and watch?
Speaker 2 (51:21):
um, I mean definitely watch andor, yeah, I, I second
that series.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
They're, yeah, one of the amazing, amazing shows.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Certainly, from things I've worked on, that's my
favourite, is it?
Yeah, that's the top of thelist, is it?
Speaker 1 (51:33):
I mean you're in it as well.
Yeah, true, starring role.
That's maybe why X-WingMechanic number 7 yeah.
I think it's episode 9 andepisode 12.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
You'll see me on the wing somewhere.
Yeah, brilliant man.
Yeah, yeah, oh, brilliant man,well, listen.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
um, lovely to speak with you, as always.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to chat and uh it's
great man, it's good yeah.
Have a great day.
We'll speak to you soon.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
Yeah, thank you very much too.
All right, cheers Bye.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
And that is it for this week's episode.
A huge thank you to David againfor sharing his extraordinary
stories and, of course, a bigthanks to you as well for
listening.
For photos, links and moreabout this episode, head to
knowordinarymondaycom and lookfor the episode page.
You'll also find stuff on oursocials Facebook, instagram and
(52:24):
more.
Next week we are leaving thedesert behind and heading to the
Arctic.
My guest is Sue Stockdale, anexplorer who became the first
British woman to ski to themagnetic North Pole.
She's faced freezing winds,deadly ice and moments where her
life and her team's survivalhas hung in the balance.
So follow us and subscribe nowso you don't miss it.
(52:45):
If you'd like to share your owncareer story with us, we'd love
to hear from you.
Get in touch via our socials.
You can email hello H-E-L-L-Oat noordinarymondaycom or you
can use the submit your storypage on our website.
And if you've enjoyed thisepisode, please do two super
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(53:07):
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Do two super quick things forus just click five stars and, if
you've got time, just write aquick review.
And the other thing is tell,tell a friend.
It really helps us grow theshow and attract more amazing
guests and inspire new listeners.
This show is produced, hostedand edited by me, chris barron.
Thank you so much for listeningand have a great monday
everyone.
You're strapped into a 4x4, driving deep into the
desert, and then, out of nowhere, the car hits something
Quicksand.
The driver jumps out butvanishes beneath the surface.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
So then everybody in the car just starts panicking
because they're like where thehell has he just gone?
He's drowned in quicksand.
And then so they start tryingto climb out the roof of the car
and as they're coming out thisgiant lizard appears and it's
crawling towards them andspitting at them and stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
But what looked like disaster was in fact,
entertainment designed andconstructed for a prank show.
Beneath the sand lies a deeptank, a hydraulic lift and
safety divers hidden in pitchblack water.
And for this week's guest, itwas one of the most difficult,
dangerous and unforgettablebuilds of his career career.
(01:11):
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of no Ordinary Monday.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
I am your host, chris Barron,and each week I sit down with a
guest whose job is far fromordinary.
We explore how they got there,what it's really like behind the
scenes, and then I ask them torelive the single most
unforgettable experience oftheir career.
Now, if you're enjoying theshow, make sure to follow us or
subscribe, and that way youwon't miss out on any of the
(01:34):
incredible guests we have linedup for you.
And our guest this week is oneof the wizards who helps conjure
up movie magic, not with CGI,but with real fire, water and
effects.
From detonating double-deckerbuses in London to building
elaborate alien worlds on StarWars Andor, his job is to make
(01:54):
us believe it's real.
David Wrigley Williamson is aspecial effects artist whose
work has taken him from smallindie sets to Emmy award-winning
masterpieces, and he's evenpicked up a Star Wars acting
credit along the way.
And, as you heard in that intro, david's big story takes us to
the deserts of Abu Dhabi, wherea prank show turned into one of
(02:16):
the most cursed and difficultshoots of his career.
So stay tuned for a grippingbehind the scenes.
Look at what it takes to createthese effects and the
surprising challenges that comewith it.
You're listening to no OrdinaryMonday.
Let's get into the show.
All right, davidWrigley-Williamson, welcome to
(02:42):
the podcast.
How are you doing today, man?
Great to see you.
Okay, you too.
Thank you very much, man.
Your beard is looking majestic,as ever, I have to say.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
No, you too.
Mine is probably a lot whiterthan when you last saw it.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I think that I want to start.
I mean, we were housemates whenI moved to London way back in
the day when I was working andwe became good friends there and
I think that just before we getinto your stuff, I wanted to
share an anecdote for kind ofhow badass you are in some ways.
And the anecdote is when Iasked you to come and help me on
(03:23):
a documentary project for thebbc about hypnosis, do you
remember?
I do?
Yeah, so to give you to prefacethis, I was doing a documentary
for the bbc about placeboeffect hypnosis and I found a
dentist in glasgow who whooffered, um, essentially
(03:44):
drug-free wisdom toothextraction and funnily enough, I
couldn't find anyone who wascrazy or silly enough to do one.
And then we were in the car oneday driving somewhere and I was
like, oh, I'm struggling withthis.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
We were on the way back from climbing.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, we were on the way back from climbing.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
And I was like oh, my week's been really tough.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I can't find someone and you're like I'll do it.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, didn't.
Oh, my week's been really tough.
I can't find someone and you'relike I'll do it.
Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, Iremember I had like an annoying
wisdom tooth was growing at afunny angle and I never got
around to sorting it out at alland I was like, yeah, sure, why
not, that could be fun.
Uh, I obviously had absolutelyno idea what I was getting
myself in for, um, but yeah, itwas.
That was a hell of anexperience and you literally
like and again.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It's one of those things.
I wouldn't have believed itunless I was in the room filming
it.
You, you did.
There was nothing else apartfrom hypnosis.
Sat you in the chair going totrance and then literally
extracted a wisdom tooth fromyour mouth without anything, not
even a paracetamol Sweet.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I never really sort of believed in the stage show
sort of hypnosis, but I had apretty open mind.
I was like, well, let's seewhat happens.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, and your pain levels out of 10 never reached
beyond.
What was it?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
It was a two, like it was crazy.
You know what, if, if youstruggle with it, with the
injections and stuff, I I wouldrecommend it for sure.
Well, maybe have a little bitmore uh time learning the ins
and outs of it than I did, yeah,brilliant.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Well, the reason I wanted to tell that story is
because I think that that'ssomething that I would struggle
with, because and many peoplebut like, I've got a very
analytical brain and very sortof like not to say, you don't,
but I think that you've got amore artistic brain, you're more
open to things, and that sortof I guess leads me to like what
you've chosen or what you'vegotten into as a job, um, so I
(05:46):
guess I guess what is the mostinteresting way to describe what
you do for a living?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
well, I, so I work in special effects, film and tv,
uh, and it's basically like that.
So I do do physical effects andrather than CGI or anything.
So we, we create all of thephysical things that you have to
(06:13):
interact with, and that'sanything from like wind and rain
and or like a prop that has todo a very specific thing to
massive explosions and, yeah,it's, it's a prop that has to do
a very specific thing tomassive explosions.
Uh, and, yeah, it's, it's.
It's that sort of physicalinteraction with it.
That, um, yeah, it's, it's.
(06:34):
It's definitely the mostinteresting part for me.
Uh, and the, the, the, thecrazy things that you end up
doing.
Uh, is, is, is, yeah, I lovethat every day, is is a
completely different challenge.
Um, and, yeah, it's.
The project can be ridiculouslylong.
(06:55):
Or you and you've got loads oftime to do it, or you've you've
got 45 minutes and I need thatthing immediately so even even
on these big, big, massive,multi-million dollar projects,
like you would still.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
They've been planned in the planning, sometimes for
years.
Oh, you might have someone onsunday go like.
Oh, by the way, I've had a newidea.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Out of nowhere can we do this it could be that, or it
could even literally be.
You're in the middle of filmingand your director or whoever
just has it as an idea, andthey're like, oh, wouldn't it be
cool if we could do this, uh.
And and you're like, yeah, yeah, let's, yeah, sure, let's uh go
(07:37):
back to the workshop and seewhat we can, we can do.
And I think that's the bit thatI enjoy the most is the um, is
is that sort of problem solvingaspect of it, and it's how the
hell can we just grab all thesethings we have around us and and
make something of it, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
And what's some of the weirdest, coolest, most
incredible stuff that you'vebeen making recently on set that
you can tell us about?
Cause I guess some of thoseprojects that you're working on
now are kind of still underwraps and NDAs and stuff right.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yes, no for sure, Probably.
So the the thing that I thinkis the coolest thing I've worked
on recently would be so it wasseason two of Andor, the Star
Wars series, which is amazing.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Thank you very much.
I'm giving you full credit forit.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
By the way, no, no one else deserves yeah thank you
very much, but it actually justuh got nominated for an emmy
for special effects brilliantwell deserved.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Oh for special effects yeah is that your first
one?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
it's the first project I've ever been on that's
been nominated.
Yeah, oh, congratulations.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, thank you very much.
Yeah, I was amazed.
It was by far the biggestproduction I've ever been on,
and just every day on set youwere just in awe of the world
building that they created.
It was just absolutelyincredible, and so, my point of
(09:09):
view, it was a much biggerproject than I'd ever worked on
and I was given a lot moreresponsibility in terms of some
of the things we were buildingum, one of the first things that
I had to do.
So when you watch it in theseries, uh, I don't know, really
spoil it for anyone who's notseen it but the, so the, the um,
(09:30):
the goldman, uh, planet, yeah,the square that you see you can
see it in the trailers and stuffum, there's a big like memorial
fountain in the center of that,and that fountain we had to
make practical um, so it doesn'tlook like a lot, you don't even
(09:51):
think about it when you'rewatching it, but to make that
thing practical was incredibletask, wow.
And this thing was the size oflike as the size of like a 400
meter running track.
It was huge, it was absolutelyincredible.
And the end, what was amazingabout it is that the whole, the
entire thing, was built fromscratch alone.
(10:13):
It took I think it was nearlythree months to from start to
finish for that fountain alone,with me and another sort of four
or five people and there'snothing like.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
It's not.
You can buy any of this stufflike off the shelf.
It's all.
Every time you you have tocreate like unique solutions to
everything 100.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, so we, we had to build our own uh cool heater
and filter from scratch.
Oh my god, um, I did all of theplumbing stuff, so it was all
new to me at the time.
I've done a lot of other stuffin the past, but not of this
scale.
And then I had to design asystem where I could turn on and
(10:56):
off various different parts ofthe fountain oh my God, and make
sure that.
Well, one, you had this massivetank outside.
We had 20 000 liters because weneeded a top up, but you got
these massive tanks outside.
You have to keep on top of,like, how much water you're
pumping into the set as well ashow much you're pumping out, so
(11:17):
that you don't flood the set.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, um it's worth mentioning, like if, if anything
goes wrong, like if thefountain doesn't work on a set,
just give us a sense of likewhat's at stake, like what would
happen if you're in the middleof like an important take and
your fountain suddenly starts tooverflow or underflow or
something like what, how much?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
pressure is on to nail it it would be.
It would be well, millions andmillions and millions of pounds
wasted because, um, on, on thosesets we had like four or five
hundred extras, all you know,all writing in in the square.
You had, um, you know, tens ofstunt performers and all the
(12:04):
main actors and, uh, you knoweverything going on at the same
time and, yeah, you're just sortof operating it in a, in a
container at the back on radioand you've got no eyes on the
thing.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
So it's just yeah, do you feel that pressure it's?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
quite, uh, I I really enjoy it, like I really enjoy
being on set and seeing it allcome together and, uh, it's a
little bit of chaos every timeyou're doing something like that
.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
It's, yeah, it's really cool to see it all come
together for sure, did you everthink like I mean, stepping onto
a star wars set like must beabsolutely surreal every time
you do it.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
It really was.
It really was.
The bit for me was when we hadthat TIE Avenger in the forest
and we were doing nights forweeks and weeks and weeks doing
that sequence, and they werereally brutal nights as well.
It was cold, it was wet becauseit was heavy rain.
(13:05):
So you know, it was a prettymiserable time, but it was also
absolutely incredible becauseyou'd stand in there at night,
you've got all these lights onit and then you know we were
freeing the smoke in and justthat thing sat there.
It looked like you were in inthe scene.
(13:28):
It's just yeah, it'smind-blowing.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I loved it god, I'm so, so jealous.
Yeah, literally living people'sdreams, man I was um, I was
checking out your imdb before wejumped on and I noticed you
have one acting credit.
I do.
I do tell us what that?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I thought that'd be really funny um, basically on an
it right in andor, uh, there'sa few scenes where you have the
the big bangers and stuff withthe x-wings, and the Rebels are
getting ready and they wantedpeople in the background to be
welding and fixing things.
(14:10):
So we have these sparkgenerators that we use, that you
know, on a button, just sprayout a load of sparks, and yeah
so.
But the thing is we couldn'treally you can't hand over these
to anybody.
You've got to know how to usethem.
So it ended up that a few of usgot dressed up, we got put into
(14:32):
costume and yeah, so I becamean X-Wing mechanic for several
weeks.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
That's so cool man.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, so it was quite funny.
I was sat there watching it towhen I when I might turn up.
And yeah, you don't see my face, but you see my, like me from a
distance.
And then me, uh, just my back,welding away on top of the next
ring, sparking away.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah, you've definitely got more of a rebels
look than imperials look forsure, yes, and they're for sure
they did want.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
They were like they were unsure about the beard, so
I had they, like tucked it allunderneath and made it look a
bit shorter really which wasinteresting.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
I mean, come on, dude , like if they asked you to to
trim your beard, would you havedone it for I'd be like
absolutely not, I'm not doing it.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
No, you get somebody seriously wow the beard comes
before a star wars cameo.
That's, that's insane yeah, no,I, I'm all good, I'll keep it,
someone else can do the world.
It'll grow back man yeah, Iknow, but I haven't seen my chin
in years.
I'm all good brilliant,brilliant.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Well, um, I I like to ask folks to jump on about
their, essentially their, originstory.
You know, what did you want tobe as a kid, do you remember?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I haven't got a clue.
All I know is that I rememberbeing a kid and just I knew I
like I've definitely always beenI've always loved like taking
things apart and seeing how theyworked and building stuff.
Like my, my family have alwaysdone diy and, like you know,
(16:15):
done everything themselves, andI've always stopped out all the
time and I definitely rememberthat I had no idea what I wanted
to do in life.
I didn't have a clue to thepoint where I remember being at
school one day in art and theart teacher was like what do you
want to do?
I was like, no, I don't know,she's like well, why don't you
(16:37):
go to an art degree?
I was like, cool, I'll do that.
So yeah, I got intoLoughborough University and did
fine art and I actually loved it.
It's a great time, you know, Idid work really hard, I came out
with a good degree and yeah,but I still, even after leaving
(16:59):
uni, I did not know what Iwanted to do at all, know what I
wanted to do at all.
Um, I sort of specialized inphotography, um, and when,
towards the end, I did like aphotography um part of the
course and that for me was was Ireally enjoyed it.
So I, when I finished uni, Iwas like um maybe I'll become a
(17:19):
photographer, I don't reallyknow.
But at the same time I didn'treally want to be like a wedding
photographer or anything likethat.
I've never been very good attaking photos of people.
And then a mate at the time hewas like I'm moving down to
London because he was doing aPhD.
So him and a mate had a flatand they had a spare room down
(17:41):
in South Wimbledon and he waslike do you want to come?
I was like so I'm not doinganything else.
So I just went and I moved toLondon on a whim.
Wow, yeah.
And when I got there, I didn'treally have much of a plan
thinking back, no plan, in factto the point where I ended up
being on the dole for two weeks.
(18:02):
Oh, wow, because I was justlike well, now what do I do?
Yeah, yeah.
So I frantically searched for ajob.
I got a job in a pub.
I've done a lot of pub workbefore, so it was quite good,
easy work.
And it wasn't until, basically,my housemate shouted at me
(18:24):
saying what are you doing?
Like you're just bumbling alongworking in a pub.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Why don't you do something?
Speaker 2 (18:32):
You're probably like 20, 21 by this point I think,
yeah, I was early 20s, early 20s.
At this point I did four yearsat uni.
Yeah, yeah, something like that.
And he was like you're reallygood at building stuff, why
don't you what did you, you know?
Find a?
Find a job in, yeah, in setconstruction?
(18:52):
And I was like, what do youmean?
Because I'd it never evencrossed my mind that I could do
something like that.
Yeah, um.
So I, yeah, I sent some emailsabout um.
I literally googled setconstruction at the time.
Uh, and one of the first thingsthat popped up was um is this
(19:13):
guy, michael mulligan.
He was a like a bit of aone-stop shop for for um.
He was like an art director,construction manager, prop
master, all-in-one uh did oflike commercials, music videos,
things like that.
But his website was reallyimpressive.
He got all of the right thingson there.
(19:33):
So I was like this looks reallycool, big outfit.
And, yeah, I sent him an email.
He got back to me, needed toset hands on something.
It was a History Channel advert, I think.
And yeah, got there and he gotme straight to work.
We were like painting thestudio and then he was like I
need to make this little fire,just a gas fire, can you drill
(19:56):
some holes in this thing?
I was like, yep sure.
So straight away.
I think we gelled quite a lotthere and then, yeah, became his
, his right-hand man for, Ithink, for nearly four years
yeah, um, that's just off thatsort of random email that's
roughly.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
When we met as well, I think you were working with
michael yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
So it was still very early days of me working in the
film industry and, yeah, and itwas very much jumping in the
deep end because he was a, hewas a one-man band and he was.
You know, it was a hell of alot to to figure out.
I'd never worked in any filmrespect whatsoever, um, so it
was finding finding out the hardway of you know how, how it all
(20:39):
works and who's who, andbecause there is a bazillion
different people on the set,there's so many different
departments and knowing who'swho and who's responsible for
what.
And yeah, that was a lot tolearn, um, but it was good
because some, some of the thingswe did, because he was a bit of
a one-stop shop.
It it meant that we had to doeverything ourselves.
(21:00):
Yeah, you know, like one dayyou're building these little
props to do something, or thenext day you're building a sort
of an entire house for a film.
You know we did literallyanything, um, and then I I think
that like it sort of set me upreally well because we were
doing a um, a build for oak BootExperience or something I can't
(21:26):
remember.
It was basically this thingthat went around like Westfields
and you could go and win stuff.
It was a big like Wheel ofFortune and I built all of the
sort of set part of it and thewheel and everything but the
motor mechanism that made itspin when you press the button.
That was built by Artem.
It was a special effectscompany and they basically came
(21:49):
along, uh, to do something onthe motor and they saw that I
built everything and they'relike you know, if you've got any
downtime when you come work forus?
I was like, yeah, cool, so thatthat was basically I.
I can't remember when it was.
I think it was about early 2015was when I first started
(22:10):
working at Artem and, yeah, Ibasically never looked back.
Everything they'd built therewas amazing at the time.
You know, all different thingsunder the sun you can, you can
dream of.
It was a.
Every day was different.
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Um, yeah, because it was kind of like michael, as I
say, it was just like you know,small scale, one guy and you
basically building everythingyou know, doing a lot of stuff
and then our team was like nextlevel up I visited a couple of
times it's a big.
It was a big outfit, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah, it was yeah, yeah, it was a hell of a
learning curve, a whole new setof things to learn.
And you know because I'dobviously I've never done
anything like you know big firejobs, or you know we started
learning how to do pyrotechnicsand yeah, um, I remember was.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
It is artem that you.
There was a, a film that youwere doing was the jackie chan
one, or the the foreigner, theforeigner, where you blew up a
bus on a bridge somewhere.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yes and like yes, yeah, lambeth bridge in the town
, that's insane, like youliterally like rigged a bus to
blow up.
Yeah so it was, um, basically,we got this bus in uh into the
workshop and we spent a coupleof weeks stripping it all out
back to complete shell Needs tostill be able to drive, and then
(23:34):
we had to reinforce it becausethe lower deck of the bus had to
have about 20 stunt performerson it.
So the bus itself was actuallyhad people inside it when it
exploded.
Um, which was crazy.
Yeah so, but it was.
Yeah, it was quite, it was veryfar.
(23:55):
We stood on the bridge when it,when it went off, then it was
incredible to witness yeah,what's that feeling?
Speaker 1 (24:02):
seamlessly when you see it, when I mean when all
that work goes into a singleexplosion and it goes well like.
What is that feeling like?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
it's just.
It is definitely what.
What makes me love this job isjust that you can put months and
months and months of work intosomething for a single moment.
It could be a second um, but ifit works flawlessly it's
amazing, like I love doing.
One take wonders amazing.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
So you?
You start with michael smallset.
You're doing some good jobs.
You got recognized by artem,jumped over there for a bit
doing with artem and thensimilar thing happened again
when you jumped to star wars,was it yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
so definitely.
I got to a point in our termwhere I was just doing a lot of
the same, like similar jobs, andI really wanted to, you know,
get my teeth stuck intosomething, a bigger production.
But the thing is it's like it'sstill very much an industry
where if you you need to knowpeople, it's it's really tricky
(25:01):
to to get your foot in door.
They still don't really do CVsor anything.
It's word of mouth to get work.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Patience, also being good at your job, being patient
but also networking to a degreewhere you're meeting the right
people and the right time.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, for sure, I don't think I'm very good at
selling myself, but I do believein like hard work, and if you
always put as much effort as youcan into everything you do,
then eventually you'll getnotice, and I feel like that's
sort of how I've ended up whereI am um brilliant, because, yeah
(25:42):
, I've never been very good atnetworking at all like I've just
fallen into where I am now andI know I'm very lucky.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
But oh well, deserved as well.
Yeah, so, um, saying that you,you've done star wars, you've
done big films with big actors,you've done big explosions and
and all sorts of stuff you know,and, and in saying all that on
this show, we ask our guests tokind of bring us or share with
us that one sort ofextraordinary tale.
(26:12):
That sort of stands out amongstall the rest.
But so I mean, what is it inyour perspective?
What story stands out for you?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
what story stands out for you?
I think I think the one for mebar like the incredible worlds
that I've worked on in the starwars I think the one that still
stands out that was the mostintense, crazy job I've ever
been on was um, back in 2017, uh, and it was a Middle Eastern
prank show and I think from dayone we should have known how
(26:49):
crazy it was gonna be.
But so, basically, he's a he'sa famous artist that likes to
prank celebrities, and sobasically what he did was he got
a lot of celebrities andinvited them to go on like a
four by four sort of desertchallenge thing, and so they'd
(27:12):
come along and then they'd be.
You know, they wouldn't knowthat he's involved at this point
.
They've just been invited to goon a drive in the desert, yeah,
and so they'd have this driver.
They were in like a Land RoverDefender and driving over the
dunes and all this sort of stuffand then they come over the top
(27:34):
of this dune and there's like apretty innocent-looking patch
of sand.
So the driver drives down andgoes into it to find out that
it's quicksand and immediatelythe Land of uh land rover starts
sinking.
So he tries to.
The driver tries to get out tosort of help, but he just
(27:55):
disappears into the sand um,he's gone like, so he goes under
like he's.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
He's under the quicksand.
Yeah, gone, oh my god, uh.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
So then everybody in the car just starts panicking
because they're like where thehell has he just gone?
He's drowned in quicksand, uh.
And then so they start tryingto climb out the roof of the car
.
Yeah, um, and as they're comingout, this giant lizard appears,
um, and it's crawling towardsthem and like spitting at them
and stuff.
(28:27):
So everybody's just utterlypanicking at this point, like
what is going on, uh.
And then it's revealed ram islike he pulls off the head
because he's inside the lizard,it's a, it's a creature costume
and uh, he's like I gotta use it, I think, and everything.
All hell breaks loose at thatpoint.
But, um, jeez.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
So basically, the brief was like we want it.
We basically want to drive acar to quicksand, the driver has
to get sucked under and then abig lizard has to come out and
scare everybody.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Exactly, yeah so they broke it down a little bit and
an amazing creature effectscompany from la came over to do
the the lizard.
So they they built all of thecreature costume and put all
this stuff into it, but our taskwas to figure out how to make a
car disappear in quicksand.
Yeah, oh, it looked likequicksand, um.
(29:18):
So what we ended up doing wasum, one team in the middle of
the desert built this likemassive steel tank, so dug a
huge hole in the ground andbuilt this, this god, this tank.
That must have been I think itmust have been about 20 meters
square, this huge tank with likeslope sides, and then a really
(29:41):
deep bit in the middle yeah umand then.
So what we did was like how, howdeep, how deep is it?
I think it was a good sixmeters deep, it was it was
massive 20 by 20 in a six meterdeep tank, it's like central
tank, yeah, big square thing, um.
And then so what we did was webuilt this, uh, basically a
(30:04):
hydraulic scissor lift, but fromscratch, um, because the idea
was that the the scissor liftsdown in the bottom of the tank
and it is it like at its fullextinction level with the ground
, and then you have these tworamps that come out to the
scissor lift.
So imagine there's no quicksandthere or whatever.
(30:24):
The car drives down, drivealong these two ramps onto the
top of the scissor lift, comesto a stop and then, as the
scissor lift lowers, the rampsort of like detaches and the
scissor lift lowers the car down.
But like that bit was, you know, is a challenge to build a
scissor lift from scratch andalso not to say that you need to
(30:46):
get a very good driver to hitthe marks perfectly right,
because he misses a lift andeveryone's screwed yeah, he's
just in.
He just he did a couple of timesin the tests um, because we had
these little bumpers on theside of it, so it sort of forced
his wheels to go.
Yeah, but yeah, we we had somevery um tactical plants, uh,
that sort of showed him where togo.
(31:06):
Yeah and yeah.
So basically back in theworkshop, we built this scissor
lift and so it had to becompletely flat packable because
obviously we had to ship it outto Abu.
Dhabi.
Yeah, so just a lot of steelwork all welded together,
(31:28):
hydraulic rams and a hydrauliccontroller, and then we, we
tested it in the car park again,so set it all up, put a car on
top of it and send it up down afew times and a few days, um,
and then, yeah, packaged it allup and I think it took about two
months to get there oh wow,that's yeah.
Very much in advance went on aboat.
(31:49):
Yeah and then yeah.
So we built it all, got allprepared and we didn't really
know what we were getting in forin terms of what it was going
to be like.
None of us had ever worked inthe desert before.
I mean to be fair, thinkingback now, it was an absolute
nightmare even getting there.
(32:10):
I think it took us like 32hours to get to Abu.
Dhabi.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
What from the UK?
Speaker 2 (32:17):
From day one on that job.
When we left it was chaos.
So we got on the flight.
I think about an hour in,somebody in first class was
smelling smoke.
So're like right, we've got toland in Frankfurt.
So we dropped us off there, satfor eight hours till another
plane arrived, got on that planeand then a massive storm had
(32:38):
happened by this point.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah, that should have been your first, first red
flag that this shoot is cursedyeah, honestly, we were like,
okay, right, this is the startof the job.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
And then, yeah, then we got there and nobody had told
us that the hotel we werestaying at.
We thought it was a differenthotel, but the hotel we were
staying at was an hour and ahalf away from the location, and
every single day we were allpiled into these pickups and had
to drive across sand dunes forlike hours to get to the
(33:07):
location in the middle of thedesert yeah, it was.
It was crazy, uh, and they hadto like stop off and let all the
air out the tires.
He had grip on the sound yeah,all these local drivers take you
up and over the sand dunes Imean the desert.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
The desert is massive .
I mean I was there recently.
It is massive in that area,like I mean why would they?
Do you know why the locationproducer picked like some random
spot?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
The particular place that they'd found was actually
quite close to a very, very nicehotel, like a really really
like whatever it is now six-starhotel, and that was where they
were helicoptering in all thecelebrities too.
So they start here let's go onyour sort of desert drive here,
(33:56):
but where we was staying wasmiles away, uh, and it was a
nightmare to and from.
So day one we were like allvery hot and bothered.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Uh got to the location and this is summertime
as well, right, yeah, it was 50degrees c someday, oh jesus, it
was utterly like we were notprepared for that whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Like most days it was high 40s, but some days it was
50, incredibly, that's insane,dangerously hot, yeah.
So we got there and all of theequipment had been sort of
unloaded and by that I meanthrown off the side of a lorry
into the sand.
So stuff was just and it hadbeen there for like a week
before we got there.
So it was covered in sand.
(34:39):
We had to like dig all the bitsout and we were like what is
this?
And then it wasn't even quitein the right place.
So we had to load it all ontothis massive, like it looked
like something out of Mad Max ahuge lorry I've never seen
anything so big in my life loadit all onto that and drive it up
over the dunes to the location.
(35:00):
And by that point the this localcrew had started building, like
digging a hole and building thetank and whatever.
So we just turned up to thismassive metal hole in the ground
and was like right, you've gotto assemble this scissor lift.
Yeah, um, and yeah, we.
So we got cracking with thatand everything together.
Uh, day one, they kind offorgotten us that we were there.
(35:24):
So it was just me and two otherguys in the middle of the
desert with a couple of localworkers and the.
The production team had drivenoff to go do something else.
Uh, but it was hours, hours andhours in the middle of desert
until they came back for us andwe've just been working away, uh
, and we're like this is toomuch.
(35:45):
So from that point on we, everyday we went back to the nice
hotel and and uh had a rest for,like the, the hardest part of
the day for three hours becauseit was just too much, and then
you work a bit later into thenight but we we never sort of
realized it was going to be likethat and it was just so
grueling, really, reallygrueling, and um and the heat
(36:08):
just takes it out of you,doesn't it?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
honestly?
Speaker 2 (36:11):
you just you're lifting heavy bits of steel,
yeah, and then you know loweringit down in and bolting all
together.
Um, but I, it was quite bad.
I I got really sick on like daythree.
I got really bad food poisoning.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Maybe you got food poisoning yeah, that was.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
That was really tough if they didn't.
So I was out for a couple ofdays and, uh, so, um, one of the
guys at the ring of washingtonhe was like you've got to send
some more people, we can't justdo this with two of us yeah, um,
so a couple more of us came outand they ended up, you know,
building it all, and so the theplan for it was you get this
(36:47):
tank, you go, this is the liftwhere the car drives on to, and
then, in order to make it looklike quicksand, was you fill it
full of water?
Yeah, and then on the top ofthat, you float, um like cork
granules.
Yeah, um, so you can get themin all various different sizes
and whatever, but there's onethat, at a distance, looks like
sand, um, so it was convincingwas it like if you, if you were
(37:10):
just driving over the top of it,you're like you wouldn't really
notice.
It was yes something different,the one that, the one we got,
was like it's a bit darker, yeah, but what we ended up having to
do was, uh, like spread it outacross the desert a little bit,
yeah, just to sort of try andblend it in.
So it just looked like a bit ofa because we put like some
trees in there, like palm treesand things.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
So it was a different space, a wood patch.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, as not just yeah.
Exactly Something to look at, Isuppose, jeez.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
So you basically got this like 20 by 20 and a six
meter deep tank filled it withwater up to I mean, how deep was
the cork layer Up to about?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
two foot from the top , so it was quite a thick layer
of cork.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
So two feet of cork.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah, it was.
I cannot remember how manyhundreds of bags of cork were
emptied onto this top of thewater, but obviously because
it's like the tank wasn'tperfectly sealed and also
incredibly hot, so every day anew tanker of water would have
to come and top it up, becauseit sunk down a little bit.
Um, but yeah it was.
It was incredible.
(38:12):
You couldn't.
You couldn't see the edge ofthe tank.
We all fell in it at least once, because you're just walking
along, because you have to blendin the edge, yeah, um, so like
the director fell in once, ramezfell in.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
You know, it's like when you fall in like, is it
easy to swim like you put theedge of the tank?
When you fall in like, is iteasy to swim like you can keep
yourself afloat, or is it like?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
it was.
It was so the the wider part ofthe tank was shallow enough
that you could stand up, okay,yeah, um, so you know that you
wouldn't go too deep.
If you went to the center wherethe sizzle lift was, you would
go under, um, yeah, and so forthat, well, and and for the, the
bit where the driver disappears, they basically had two
(38:55):
specialist divers and they camein because they're they're
trained, because this is pitchblack there's no lights, like
cave diving completely honestly.
Um, I think they tried to put acouple of little early delights
in there, but it just didn'twork.
The the dust from the cork hadjust settled in the water, so
the guys like the hand in frontof her face and, um, yeah, so
(39:18):
they had these divers, likethey'd start the day, they'd go,
get ready and whatever.
I'm like, right, okay, we'reready to go, and they get in the
water, just disappear, and thenfor how long?
of them.
So I thought for like an houror so at a time because I think
we did two.
We did two episodes a day, yeah, um, so yeah, they just just I
(39:43):
don't know how they did it itwas incredible and they'd get in
.
There's been complete andthey'd wait because there was no
radio communication or whatever.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Oh my, God, so dangerous and the water was 50
degrees.
I guess the water was like hotas well.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I think it was warm.
For sure it's from the ambienttemperature, but it wasn't hot
because the cork sort ofinsulated it, yeah, fair.
So it, the cork sort ofinsulated it, yeah, fair, um, so
it wasn't like bath water orsomething, no, but it also was
grim, yeah, like they putdrinking water in it, but
(40:18):
there's no real filtrationsystem.
So within days it had gone greenor the algae immediately grew
on it, yeah, and then we justcovered it up, so it wasn't the
best conditions, um, and yeah,they basically had to wait down
there.
So one of them was a safety guyon one side of it, just in case
anybody fall in, you can helpthem out, yeah.
And the other one, um, he wasthere so that we had this mini,
like mini scissor lift.
(40:39):
It's meant for, like, uh,fixing your motorbike or
whatever so we bolted one ofthem to the bottom.
Uh, so where the driver gets out, you can get out onto this lift
and then we can lower it down.
Yep, so he goes into the waterand, um, yeah, so basically one
diver's waiting there for the.
You can tell when this cardrives onto this lift you know
it's noisy comes to a stop, sohe knows the action, he knows
(41:02):
about how long the time it'lltake until the guy steps out.
As soon as he steps out, hesort of grabs his leg so he
knows he's there.
Yeah, then sizzler starts goingdown and then he just pulls him
under and hands him a regulatorand they both just hide hide in
darkness.
Yeah, and uh, it was.
Yeah, so, from it took us a few, you know, a couple of weeks to
(41:23):
build everything and we didn'twe, we didn't have a day off.
We didn't stop because it wasjust too much to do.
Yeah, um, I think we ended upworking like 31 days straight,
uh, throughout the whole thing,because we were building
everything.
There's lots of delays, youknow, sick or whatever, yeah, uh
(41:44):
, and then, yeah, then the shootand start for filming two
episodes a day.
It was just go, go, go, um tothe point where we had to have a
spare uh vehicle.
Yeah, so we'd prepped all thevehicle and I drilled loads of
holes in it so it'd sink niceand quickly.
Um, but there was a, there wasa guy there, uh, a maintenance
(42:05):
guy that would basically takethe car back to a workshop and
clean it all out and get itrunning again, because they've
just sank it in a tank of waterand cork and everything, yeah.
Yeah, you'd open up the bonnetand it was just full.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
So you had to jet one .
When you're sinking the car.
How deep is the car going?
Like up to the windows, Like isthe water coming.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
The car completely disappeared.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
The car completely goes under.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
It completely goes under.
So by the time that, like thecelebrities are panicking and
start to escape and they're onthe roof, and then you don't
know what they're going to dothey just jump off the side or
jump towards the trunk and getout of this thing.
Oh, they're panicking.
And then the car's gone tryingto get out of this thing and
they're panicking.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
And then, yeah, the car's gone.
Oh jeez, so did you have any?
Because you've only got twodivers in the water.
Yeah, so did you have anycelebrities that did freak out
and go?
I'm just jumping and trying toswim for it.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
There's quite a few definitely that tried to run
away and just get out.
But luckily the way the tankwas made that if you jumped off
the side of the car you werealways jumping into the shallow
part so they could stand up itwould still make them jump,
they'd jump out and they'd go upto the dodgers in this cork and
then they're just flailing totry and escape.
I think it was.
(43:25):
I think, being where it was it?
Speaker 1 (43:30):
uh, that the health and safety was a little lax, for
sure, um, but it's is that um,the the sort of closest you've
ever been to be like, but Iguess you're still fairly green
so you can be like.
You know if this is if I was onthat job now I would walk off,
yeah you would just be like Ican't this.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
This was like sort of what would have been maybe
three years into me working ineffects, so I'd obviously been
in the industry for a littlewhile.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
But yeah, what is?
What is the main?
Speaker 2 (44:05):
the main things that you took from that sort of crazy
experience yeah, I think themain thing is just being able to
, like, push through all thecrazy things that are happening
and still be able to get the jobdone.
And yeah, it was a hell of achallenge that it was.
Yeah, it was really difficult,but looking back on it, I'm
(44:29):
still glad I did it like, yeah,it was crazy, yeah, and I've
never had to have theopportunity to go work in the
middle of the desert somewhereand be part of something that is
like that was brilliant.
But yeah, I don't think I'd doit again, or certainly if it was
(44:49):
on a production.
yeah, I'd like to do it a bitsafer.
Yeah, and I'd like to.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Maybe do it in the wintertime rather than the
summertime.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, so you've done Star Wars.
You know two big Star Warsseries, yeah, and other things
as well.
I mean, where do you go fromhere, and other things as well?
I mean, where do you go fromhere In terms of projects you
want to look towards in thefuture, or if it's a project or
maybe even there's a particularspecial effect you want to do,
(45:21):
what's the future looking likefor you?
Speaker 2 (45:28):
There's a bit of a bucket list for me of things I'd
like like to work on.
The main one is I wouldabsolutely love to work on a
bond.
Yeah, that's, that's thepinnacle for sort of uk uh
production for me.
Yeah, I'd absolutely loved,because I think that's one of
the things that sort ofsubconsciously drew me to this
is as a kid watching Bond andall his gadgets and stuff, it
(45:50):
was just absolutely incredible.
And, yeah, to be able to likeI've worked with the guy that's
built all the gadgets for allthe Bonds in the past.
He's an incredible man that youknow made all the bits and bobs
and all the guns that flip outthe lights and all these little
gizmos and gadgets, and I'm likethat's what I want to do.
You know, made all the bits andbobs of the guns that flip out
the lights and all these littlegizmos, gadgets, and I'm like
(46:11):
that's what I want to do, youknow, yeah, and I think that
would be an absolute dream jobfor sure.
Um, but I've definitely foundmyself like I'm sort of
specializing in quite intricatethings, uh, like building
flamethrowers and things likethat, which is really fun.
I didn't think that when I wasburning things as a kid that
(46:33):
it'd become my job, um, but yeah, no, it's, uh it's.
It's become a very fun place,uh, to work and literally, yeah,
I don't.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Working in a toy shop most of your career, yeah every
day it's like make this thingbe that okay cool, let's grab a
load of bits and smash it alltogether.
It's great yeah um.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
So I always like to ask sort of people, um, towards
the end of the show, just abouttheir advice for anyone who
wants to follow in yourfootsteps but may not have even
a clue where to start.
What advice would you give topeople who want to try and do
what you've done?
Speaker 2 (47:18):
So I actually got an email from my old school saying
what do you do for your career?
And so I think I'd really liketo, you know, go back to my
school and and just try andsocial people, what's out there,
because I don't think it wouldbe very good.
I don't really like talking infront of people but, um, I think
(47:41):
that it'd be really coolbecause even if there's just one
kid that hasn't got a clue whatthey want to do in life and
doesn't understand, you know,not very academic or whatever,
but is just creative that thereare so many things in film you
can do, and I just think that,certainly for people that are
(48:02):
creative, there definitely needsto be more awareness of all the
different things you couldpossibly do you know, um, even
people that are not even peoplethat are already like in an
industry outside of film.
Like we have plasterers andchippies and you know painters
(48:25):
and yeah.
So you don't need a degree, notat all, like.
Like I know quite a few peoplethat have done the special
effects degree, um, and it givesyou a good like basic
understanding.
But basically, if you've gotyour head screwed on and you you
just want to get stuck in, youdon't need a degree at all to to
(48:45):
work in film.
You just want to.
You know, come do somethingcreative and I think the there
are a lot more avenues thesedays of getting in contact with,
with various things, but Istill think the best way is just
get some some contact detailsand and send some emails and
(49:06):
just be like I really want to bepart of this industry and can I
come try it out?
And nine times out of ten, wealways need more people.
We gotta owe it.
We're always on demand and ifyou, you know if we can get a
trainee in, that's just superkeen and you know you could be.
You know, never gone to uni 18,come straight in and and go
(49:31):
from there and yeah, I reallywish I'd been able to do that,
because I don't think I can'teven remember how old I was when
I came into effects.
You know like mid-20s before Ifound it, you know, so I'm I'm a
good seven or eight yearsbehind some people.
Wow, yeah, yeah, I just yeah.
(49:54):
There definitely needs to bemore awareness in schools about
other jobs you can do.
You know it's tough.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
It's really really tough, because you know, doing
this podcast, you become awareof just the sheer variety and
immense landscape of differentways you can make a living it is
my and I don't even know howthe careers counselor even
scratches the surface whenthey've got you know 300
(50:23):
students to talk to or whatever,or work with.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
I don't need to yeah, but also I'm definitely one for
just not putting too muchpressure on yourself.
Like you don't need to know at18 what you want to do for the
rest of your life.
It's uh, also you don't need todo something for the rest of
your life.
Well, I don't know why peoplesay that, yeah, like, careers
evolve.
You're like, just, if you don'tlike it, do something else.
(50:45):
Yeah, um, I think, well, Idon't know, maybe I'm just lucky
in that respect that I could dothat.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
But well, yeah, I think that anyone, anyone who
loves getting up in the morningand doing what they do is is
extremely they've won.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
They've won life yeah , for sure, I know I am very
lucky in that respect, but yeah,brill.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
Dave, absolutely lovely to speak with you.
Um, at the end I always sort ofsay um, is there anything that
you would like to plug, or anysocials, or even films or shows
that you've worked on that youwant people to go and watch?
Speaker 2 (51:21):
um, I mean definitely watch andor, yeah, I, I second
that series.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
They're, yeah, one of the amazing, amazing shows.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Certainly, from things I've worked on, that's my
favourite, is it?
Yeah, that's the top of thelist, is it?
Speaker 1 (51:33):
I mean you're in it as well.
Yeah, true, starring role.
That's maybe why X-WingMechanic number 7 yeah.
I think it's episode 9 andepisode 12.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
You'll see me on the wing somewhere.
Yeah, brilliant man.
Yeah, yeah, oh, brilliant man,well, listen.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
um, lovely to speak with you, as always.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to chat and uh it's
great man, it's good yeah.
Have a great day.
We'll speak to you soon.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
Yeah, thank you very much too.
All right, cheers Bye.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
And that is it for this week's episode.
A huge thank you to David againfor sharing his extraordinary
stories and, of course, a bigthanks to you as well for
listening.
For photos, links and moreabout this episode, head to
knowordinarymondaycom and lookfor the episode page.
You'll also find stuff on oursocials Facebook, instagram and
(52:24):
more.
Next week we are leaving thedesert behind and heading to the
Arctic.
My guest is Sue Stockdale, anexplorer who became the first
British woman to ski to themagnetic North Pole.
She's faced freezing winds,deadly ice and moments where her
life and her team's survivalhas hung in the balance.
So follow us and subscribe nowso you don't miss it.
(52:45):
If you'd like to share your owncareer story with us, we'd love
to hear from you.
Get in touch via our socials.
You can email hello H-E-L-L-Oat noordinarymondaycom or you
can use the submit your storypage on our website.
And if you've enjoyed thisepisode, please do two super
quick things for us Just clickfive stars and, if you've got
(53:07):
time, just write a quick review.
Do two super quick things forus just click five stars and, if
you've got time, just write aquick review.
And the other thing is tell,tell a friend.
It really helps us grow theshow and attract more amazing
guests and inspire new listeners.
This show is produced, hostedand edited by me, chris barron.
Thank you so much for listeningand have a great monday
everyone.
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