May 31, 2024 • 26 mins
Today, we learn a new approach to resolving relationship conflicts with our special guest, Rod Jeter, a best-selling author, TEDx speaker, and couples coach.
Rod created "Why Be Angry," a relationship game designed to help couples resolve disagreements effortlessly. After his own marriage counseling failed, Rod developed this game to tackle issues one at a time, achieving results in just minutes. Tune in to learn how this game can transform your relationship and help you become the confident leader your kids crave you to be.
Take advantage of Rod's insights and practical tips. Click the link in the show notes to learn more about becoming a No Problem Parent and to purchase the "Why Be Angry" game. Let's turn problems into no problem and build stronger connections!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
All right, welcome back, No Problem Parents, the No Problem Parenting Podcast.
I'm your host, Jaci Fineman, and you are here today because you want to be
the confident leader your kids crave you to be, and my guest is gonna help you,
those of you who are in two-parent homes,
you're in a relationship, whether you're dating, living together,
or you're married, and you're struggling with some conflict,
(00:23):
I would like you to meet Rod Jeter.
He is the best-selling author, TEDx speaker, couples coach.
And after an unsuccessful attempt to save his marriage through traditional counseling,
Rod created Why Be Angry, the relationship game where all you have to do to win is play.
He designed Why Be Angry to help couples stay together one issue at a time.
(00:47):
Rod's game approach helps couples overcome seemingly insurmountable disagreements
that have lasted decades.
And it can help you do this in just minutes. No fuss and no drama.
Hey there, parents. Thanks for listening to the No Problem Parenting Podcast.
Are you ready to become the confident leader your kids crave you to be?
Are you losing your crap on your kids, yelling, giving in, and exhausted at the end of every day?
(01:12):
You can start building confidence in your parenting immediately,
whether your child is a toddler or all grown up and still living in your house.
Don't make this parenting gig harder than it needs to be register to become
a no problem parent it comes with an app so you can listen to the tips and tools
just like you're listening to this podcast click the link in the show notes
or go to no problem parents.com become a no problem parent today.
(01:38):
So I'm super excited to have you on the show today. Welcome, Rod.
Thank you. Thank you. Glad to be here. I watched your TEDx talk on Why Be Angry.
It is genius. And some might say too simple.
And yet my husband and I already tried it on a particular argument that we were
having, and it worked like a breeze.
(01:59):
So I would love for you to just describe how you came up with Why Be Angry and this game approach.
Approach okay so Jackie I always tell people that
I think about 19 years ago now I was
blessed to meet a wonderful lady and we
eventually got married and but after about 10 years I wanted out I was unhappy
(02:22):
you know going through some depression and you know I just wanted out but my
wife being the person she is she agreed to go to marriage counseling and so
we went to marriage counseling.
And the first four weeks of counseling, they were just assessing us to see if
we were suitable for counseling.
So on the fifth week, they said that we were suitable for counseling and we'd
(02:47):
get another eight to 12 weeks of counseling. Yay.
Well, on the fifth week, we got kicked out of marriage counseling, Jackie.
It was my fault. I was being stubborn. I didn't want to do this exercise that
the counselor had asked us to do.
Nevertheless, we were kicked out. So a couple of days later,
I was looking at my beautiful wife and I remember saying to myself,
(03:10):
it's a shame we didn't get the benefit of another eight to 12 weeks of counseling.
And I always tell people that I'm sure she could have learned something, jokingly.
But right. So I said, Lord, if I'm going to stay in this relationship,
I need to see some progress us right now, right now.
So I sat down and I started working on something because I wanted to help other
(03:34):
couples not go through what my wife and I had experienced, or at least what I had experienced.
And so as I was working on this, I realized that I didn't have any big problems with my wife.
You know, I didn't, I hadn't caught her lying or cheating or pausing my food or anything like that.
I just, I realized that if we were, had been able to resolve our disagreements
(03:55):
as As they occurred, then I wouldn't be in the predicament that I was in.
So I figured out a way to help couples resolve disagreements.
And what I ended up with is this game, couples coaching with instant results.
And I called it Why Be Angry.
And Jackie, it just works every time. The couple could have had disagreements
(04:15):
for 10, 20, 30, 40, even more than 50 years.
On average, they will resolve the disagreement in less than 26 minutes. 26 minutes.
I'm just amazed when I sit down with people and I coach them through playing
the game all the time. I've even coached marriage counselors.
If you watch my YouTube channel, which is called Why Be Angry TV now,
(04:40):
they search Why Be Angry TV on YouTube, and they see the one lady that she has
a hat on, and she goes, this is truly therapeutic because she's a marriage counselor.
She had had a problem, I think, for 22 years with her husband,
but they were able to settle it in no time.
It just works. It does.
(05:00):
It does. I'm a testament to that. I think any marriage, any couple can agree
that you're going to have challenges. You're going to have disagreements to
the point where sometimes it becomes a resentment.
And yet you know deep down you don't want to start over.
The grass isn't greener on the other side. Like we're talking about couples
(05:22):
who they're not experiencing abuse or, you know, narcissism or things, things like that.
These are your kind of common traditional marriage issues that if left uncared
for and unacknowledged can lead to resentment down the road. But they don't have to.
And again, that's why I think your approach is just so simple.
(05:43):
So let's share with the listeners what it is.
Hey, first, I want to say to you.
Since I started doing this, I can't tell you how many times I've heard,
my husband's a narcissist in the last year.
It's just, that seems like the go-to thing. And I don't even know if these people
know what narcissism is, but the issues, the things they're telling me,
(06:05):
I say, I don't know if that's being a narcissist.
I think you're just hearing that word and repeating it. But anyway.
And that's a good point. Actually, I'll entertain that with you.
I think the word does get thrown around a lot because people will use it when
their spouse is maybe always wanting to be right or always get the last word
or, you know, kind of all about themselves.
(06:25):
Or just stubborn. Yeah, stubborn. It comes off as egotistical.
All of that is typically a defense for something. It's part of resistance.
Can you tell me what it is? What narcissism is?
Yes. One of the best ways to know if you're truly dealing with a narcissist
or not is to get this book, Holy S, I'm Dealing with a Narcissist by Dr.
(06:46):
J.J. Kelly, Navigating Narcissism in the Workplace and Beyond.
But she actually talks about and goes into great detail what the clinical diagnosis
of narcissism is, but also what it is not.
It is it's very eye opening and enlightening. And it is true that a lot of people
are throwing that word around quite a bit, just like anxiety.
I'm triggered by things. You know, there's actual trauma triggers and then there's
(07:09):
just being, you know, set off.
So anyway, we could go down a whole other route with that.
But narcissism usually at the root of it is something that happened in your
first three years of life. I specialize in attachment, attachment disorders.
And usually there's been a break in attachment where the child doesn't trust
the adult because they see the adult as inflicting pain.
And that's a lot of times the root of a narcissistic diagnosis.
(07:30):
But yeah, tell us about how you came up with and what you call a gain that the
why be angry is actually a gain.
Okay, so I'll walk you through a few things here.
First, there are some ground rules, and there are three main ground rules.
And if a couple satisfies these ground rules, I believe it will work.
(07:52):
Every time. The first one is they both have to want to be in the relationship.
They both have to want the relationship to work because this is the kind of
game where you can't win by yourself.
The relationship has to win or you both lose.
You see, we're on the same team.
It's me and you against the issue.
So the problem is not you. The problem is the issue.
(08:17):
And it's me and you working against this issue. you. So we're on the same team.
That's one of the reasons why it works.
It's not me trying to get my point across to you and you're trying to get your
point across to me so that I can win or whatever.
It's us against the problem. So the second thing is you have to be honest about
whatever the subject of the game is.
(08:38):
So for example, the game makes us focus on one issue at a time.
So I tell people, I help people, couples stay together one issue at a time.
Because they're just going to focus on one thing at a time, depending on what
the rules in the house are.
I'm not going to be fussing at you about how the food tastes,
(08:59):
and then you turn around and start screaming at me about what the front yard looks like.
We're not talking about more than one thing at the same time.
We're going to talk about one thing.
So we start by agreeing ring on one issue to settle.
And the issue I use most often is, should we buy a new car?
I'll use that as an example. The third thing is you have to be able to count to 14.
(09:23):
There are literally 14 steps in this process.
And the steps are really simple. They just might not be very intuitive because
of how we've been handling our disagreements for the last two, three, or four decades.
Okay. So when I'm coaching couples, I do have to make sure they stay on track.
(09:44):
Sometimes I say, hey, wait, you're on number four and you're trying to do number eight right now.
So we'll talk about that later. So the first step I'm going to walk you through
a game is we have to agree on an issue.
Let's say I'm the man and you're a woman and you've been nagging me about buying a new car.
And so we're going to sit down and agree to play the game to resolve that issue.
(10:09):
The first step now is we have to convert that issue to a yes or no question.
That yes or no question is, should we buy a new car? Yes or no makes it real simple.
So now you want to buy a new car. I don't.
So what you're going to do first now is you're going to write down one detail
(10:31):
to support your yes position.
That detail might be this car has broken down on me three times in the last two months.
And then if you have another detail to support your issue, that might be you'd
write that on a different card and that might be this car is ugly.
And then maybe you have another one you write on a different card. This car is 40 years old.
(10:53):
You might have five, six or seven of them. OK, and you'd write them all down
on different cards in the game.
Now, I don't want to buy a new car, so I'm going to write down some things to
support my position. The first one might be, my granddad left me this car.
And another one on a different car might be, if this car breaks down,
(11:13):
I can fix it instead of having to take it to the shop.
And third one might be, we can't really afford a new car.
So let's just say we're going to play this game with just these six details.
So we have this one issue we're focusing on, but that issue is made up of six different details.
Now, what we're going to do is we're going to dive into those details one at a time and focus more,
(11:38):
because if you're screaming your three details at me, your three reasons why
we should, and I'm screaming my three reasons why we shouldn't,
there's still just chaos and confusion.
OK, now I believe if two people, two reasonable people have the same data in
their heads, they'll probably come up with the same reasonable conclusion if
they're reasonably compatible. incompatible. Okay.
(11:59):
So you're going to take your three reasons and you're going to rank them in
order of relevance, how important they are to this issue.
So car breaking down three times on you in the last two months, that might be a 10 to you.
We're going to rank them from one to 10 with 10 being most relevant. Okay.
And the car being ugly might be a eight to you.
(12:22):
And let's say the car being 40 years old is a seven to you.
Where for me, my granddad giving me this car might be a nine to me and me being
able to fix it if it breaks down might be an eight to me.
Us not being able to afford it wasn't really a big deal, but that's like a five.
Well, now we're going to take all of your details and all of my details and
(12:44):
we're going to put them together and we're going to put them in a stack in order of importance.
The most important on top. So that was your 10.
This card is broken down three times in the last two months.
What this does for us, it allows us to focus on the most important detail of
this issue, because a lot of times if we resolve this detail,
(13:06):
the other ones are inconsequential.
And don't matter so much.
If we don't do it that way, if we're not playing this game, you may come to
me and say, we need to buy a new car.
And then you may say, this car is 40 years old.
And I'm immediately going, no, my dad gave me this car. I'm not selling it.
And then once I resolve that issue for you, then you say, I'm tired of driving around in this car.
(13:32):
And then I'm going to say something else. And I resolve that issue.
Then you're going to come back maybe tomorrow with, You know,
I'm tired of this car. It wouldn't start today.
Now you're nagging me a day later, a week later, when if we can take care of
the most important thing first,
because what happens really, the reason why most people resolve their issues
in less than 26 minutes is because we talk about the most important detail of the issue first.
(13:57):
OK, and the game is over very quickly because we come to an agreement once we
resolve the biggest issue.
OK, so we stack the cards in order. Your 10 was on top.
You're going to pick up the card and you're going to say you're going to tell
me what you wrote and how important it is to you.
You're going to say this card is broken down on me three times in the last two
(14:18):
months. And that's a 10 to me.
Now, the next two steps, Jackie, steps four and five are the most important steps in the game.
They're on my side of the card. There's a front and back to the cards.
So now in these steps, I have to repeat back to you what I believe you mean
in my own words. And then I follow that with, is that right?
To make sure we're on the same page. What this does again, first,
(14:39):
it allows you to feel heard.
Secondly, when I do respond to what you've written, I can respond to what you
actually mean, not something I thought you meant.
So I'm going to say, so, honey, what you're saying to me is this car is broken
down on you three times in the last two months. So you're embarrassed by it.
Is that right? You'll say no.
(15:00):
Oh, so wait. So this car is broken down to you three times in the last two months.
So you don't feel safe. You say yes.
Now, for the rest of the conversation, we are seeing eye to eye.
We're talking about the same thing.
Okay. Which doesn't happen a lot of times when couples are arguing,
they're arguing at each other and don't even really talking about the same thing.
(15:24):
The next step, step six, I have to say whether this detail is or is not true.
And in this case, I'm going to say it is not true. This car broke down three
times in the last two months. And that's why we should buy a new car.
As you can imagine, it is hard for a couple to resolve an issue or to come to
an agreement on an issue when they can't agree on the facts of the issue,
(15:45):
the details of the issue.
So I love it when couples agree,
When I get a not true, because I know then if they come to an agreement on the
facts, they're going to settle this issue very quickly.
I might say it's not true because that might sound very factual.
The car is broken down three times and lasts too much. Right.
That that seems like it sounds like true or false. Right.
(16:07):
And but really, one of the times you are on the side of the freeway because
you had ran over a nail, the tire, you had a flat tire.
And you're counting that as the car breaking down. Now, well,
that can break down. You can run over a nail in a new car.
So I don't count that as a reason to buy a new car. After I respond to you like
that in step eight, steps nine and ten are just like steps four and five.
(16:30):
You repeat back to me what you believe.
I mean, in your own words, ask me, is that right? So you'd say something like,
so what you're saying to me is because I ran over a nail and got a flat tire.
That's not a reason to buy a new car because I can get a flat tire in a new car, too. Now, I say yes.
Step 11 is the focus discussion and debate section.
And here we just go back and forth and talking about this one detail as it relates to the issue.
(16:54):
We try our best to stay on the car breaking down three times in the last two
months in my response to that.
OK, so we're going to talk about that just a little bit. And you're going to
say, well, honey, I'm just tired of this car breaking down.
I don't want to get in the car from the grocery store and it doesn't crank.
Or I don't want to be on the side of the freeway again because one of those
times it wasn't a flat tire. The car just shut off.
(17:16):
I don't feel safe. And then I can respond to that and say, oh,
I didn't really think about that, honey.
I, you know, I mean, I thought as long as I can fix the car, it's OK.
And I'm never afraid when I'm on the side of freeway and it's dark.
But and I come and get you really quick.
I understand now that you might not know how long it's going to take.
But now I see what you're saying.
(17:38):
And then somewhere in there, you might say, and honey, you know,
you don't have to sell this car.
You can keep it. We just need to buy another car for me to drive.
You can keep your dad's car and do whatever you want to do to it.
OK, one, we have agreed to sit down and talk about this.
So you've got we've got each other's undivided attention right now because we're
(17:59):
agreeing to sit down and play this game.
That's much better than me watching the football game and you coming in the
house and I'm sick of this car. I want a new car.
And I'm telling myself, you know, I'm trying to watch the game and I know I'm
not going to sell my granddad's car. So I'm not trying to hear what you're saying right now.
Or I just finished. Maybe I just finished paying the bills. And now you're trying
(18:22):
to talk to me about getting a new car.
And I'm not really trying to hear it right now.
You know, but right now you have my undivided attention and I'm actually listening
to you and you're listening to me.
So the next step, step 12, is I am going to have to say what I took from this
interaction on this card.
(18:43):
And ideally, the person would start with, I feel better because,
and that's written on the card.
So I'm going to say, I feel better because now I understand why this card bothers
you so much. Your safety is an issue.
I want them to get in the habit of saying, so what you're saying to me is,
because once they learn how to play the game, they don't have to sit down and
play the game. They can walk around the house playing the game.
(19:05):
So if I come in the house late after work, and my wife says something to me
because she's frustrated, like, what took you so long? The food's cold already.
Then I can say, so what you're saying to me is, and when I do that,
it automatically puts her and me in the mind frame of the game,
(19:26):
where we're on the same side, and the problem is not me or you just coming home
late or the food being cold is the problem. We're still on the same page.
I'm just trying to understand what you mean right now, honey.
And it will bring the tempers down.
Yeah, I love this so much. I love it so much. And then the practice,
the more you do that, the more natural it becomes.
(19:47):
And what I really love about this, Rod, is that it's taken the emotion and the
personalization out of the problem.
That's what couples have said. Because I always ask when the game is over,
Or why, after so many years, were you able to resolve this in just a few minutes?
And a lot of times they'll say it seems like it took the emotions out of it.
Nobody ever gets angry or upset when they're playing the game.
(20:09):
When you see people and when you see people laughing, when you go to the Why
Be Angry TV YouTube channel and you see people laughing, there's no there are no jokes in the game.
There's nothing funny about the game. They're laughing at what they say to each other.
And which never happens when you're having a heated argument.
Right. So step 12, I feel better because now I understand why you get so frustrated
(20:32):
by this call because you're concerned for your safety.
Then 13, you're going to say same thing, why you feel better.
And ladies, more than anything, will always say something like,
I feel better because I feel heard.
OK, I must always say that I feel heard. And I think that's because they had
(20:53):
his undivided attention.
She's told him a hundred times, but she didn't tell him at the right time or
she didn't present it to him the right way.
Or maybe he just didn't perceive it the right way. You have to realize that
if you're telling him the 50th time to pick his clothes up off the floor and
put them in the dirty clothes basket,
You're probably not saying that with the same attitude and tone that you said
(21:19):
it the first two or three times.
And rightfully so. And he's probably feeling that tension and goes into some kind of defense mode.
Or if you are telling him for the 75th time, then rightfully so.
He needs to be told again. But if you're telling him for the 75th time,
he might feel nagged right now because you're telling him this again.
(21:42):
Again, I know right now I might sound like the woman is always trying to resolve an issue.
A lot of times the guy's trying to resolve an issue, too. Like the most common
issue I have recorded is the should she initiate sex more often?
Yeah. And we're going to let them watch the TEDx because you give a great example
of that in your TEDx talk.
And I've got that link for that in the show notes. So number 14,
(22:03):
the last step, we have to agree whether there was any progress on this one detail
card, this one detail here.
Again it's helping us move forward and so
almost always they'll say yes there was progress the
second part of it is was there enough progress to
win the game have we resolved it and the vast
(22:23):
majority of times there was enough progress to resolve the issue and the game's
over so one of the things that people say is that this levels the playing field
because you know in most relationships one person is going to be more articulate
or more dominant than the other person And they're going to have a better chance
of getting their points across more often,
(22:43):
which leaves the other person, you know, on the losing side.
OK, so what happens is once we get it all out, the issue is absolutely, totally resolved.
So when I call back six months later to check on the couple,
this issue is still fine.
It all comes out and they're all feeling good. Yeah, it's I mean, it is so good.
(23:06):
It is a game. You actually set this up into a game.
So people do not have to come to you to learn this and to coach through this.
They can buy the game for 20 bucks.
Right, right. They can learn how to play it.
If they aren't figuring it out, if they need a little more assistance,
that's where you come in. Right.
So there are step by step color coded instructions on the first four pages of the game.
(23:31):
The card has one through 14 on it. It's pretty easy.
But like I said, it's not intuitive because we've been resolving our disagreements
a certain way for however many years.
And so a lot of times I have to say, wait a minute, we're not on step eight
yet. We're just on step four.
Yeah, and that is key to follow it step by step. No cheating in this game.
Right, right. I think people are skeptical about how effective this can really be.
(23:55):
Seems like someone would have come up with this, you know, like I said, 100 years ago.
Well, and like I said, sometimes, you know, before we started recording,
sometimes we make this stuff harder than it needs to be.
And here at No Problem Parenting, we're all about turning problems into no problem.
Right in the definition of the word problem, it says, a problem is a matter
or situation that is unwelcome or harmful and needing to be dealt with and overcome.
(24:22):
Why be angry is the exact, like, we can use this in our relationship and with
our kids, in our conversations with our kids.
This is so adaptable. I am going to sing your praises and promote the heck out
of this game and get a copy for myself here at my house. It's really, truly brilliant.
And sometimes it is the most simple ideas that have the biggest impact, Rod.
(24:47):
So I'm thrilled to share this. Let me say, too, that I believe the quickest
way to reduce the stress in the workplace is to reduce the amount of stress
employees bring to work.
So if employers would help their employees be happy at home,
then they'll come to work happier and do a better job at work.
(25:10):
In my opinion, everyone could can use this game because everyone has issues and disagreements.
Yeah. Well, you're just getting started and we're here to promote you and sing
your praises and get this into the hands of every couple, every relationship,
even if you're not struggling yet.
You know, this would be a great wedding gift. It is.
I tell people they should use this game before they decide to make a commitment
(25:35):
because it will show you if you are compatible with the person.
It really simplifies things. And it's better to know before you get married
than after you get married that you aren't really compatible. Right.
Much less when you bring kids into the world, that always adds extra stress
and it can make you misinterpret each other and you're tired as all get out.
(25:55):
And, you know, so you're irritated more easily and all the things.
So this has just been so great, Rod. I really appreciate you being on the show.
I've got links in the show notes to purchase the Why Be Angry game,
as well as your website, whybeangry.com.
Your YouTube channel is on there.
We've got all the links for the listeners. Thank you so much for finding the
(26:16):
No Problem Parenting podcast, reaching out and being on the show.
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Hey, thanks for tuning in today, parents. Remember, we can turn any problem into a no problem.
We can create connection and relationship.
So come on board. Join our parenting community. Go to noproblemparents.com to get started today.
All right, welcome back, No Problem Parents, the No Problem Parenting Podcast.
I'm your host, Jaci Fineman, and you are here today because you want to be
the confident leader your kids crave you to be, and my guest is gonna help you,
those of you who are in two-parent homes,
you're in a relationship, whether you're dating, living together,
or you're married, and you're struggling with some conflict,
(00:23):
I would like you to meet Rod Jeter.
He is the best-selling author, TEDx speaker, couples coach.
And after an unsuccessful attempt to save his marriage through traditional counseling,
Rod created Why Be Angry, the relationship game where all you have to do to win is play.
He designed Why Be Angry to help couples stay together one issue at a time.
(00:47):
Rod's game approach helps couples overcome seemingly insurmountable disagreements
that have lasted decades.
And it can help you do this in just minutes. No fuss and no drama.
Hey there, parents. Thanks for listening to the No Problem Parenting Podcast.
Are you ready to become the confident leader your kids crave you to be?
Are you losing your crap on your kids, yelling, giving in, and exhausted at the end of every day?
(01:12):
You can start building confidence in your parenting immediately,
whether your child is a toddler or all grown up and still living in your house.
Don't make this parenting gig harder than it needs to be register to become
a no problem parent it comes with an app so you can listen to the tips and tools
just like you're listening to this podcast click the link in the show notes
or go to no problem parents.com become a no problem parent today.
(01:38):
So I'm super excited to have you on the show today. Welcome, Rod.
Thank you. Thank you. Glad to be here. I watched your TEDx talk on Why Be Angry.
It is genius. And some might say too simple.
And yet my husband and I already tried it on a particular argument that we were
having, and it worked like a breeze.
(01:59):
So I would love for you to just describe how you came up with Why Be Angry and this game approach.
Approach okay so Jackie I always tell people that
I think about 19 years ago now I was
blessed to meet a wonderful lady and we
eventually got married and but after about 10 years I wanted out I was unhappy
(02:22):
you know going through some depression and you know I just wanted out but my
wife being the person she is she agreed to go to marriage counseling and so
we went to marriage counseling.
And the first four weeks of counseling, they were just assessing us to see if
we were suitable for counseling.
So on the fifth week, they said that we were suitable for counseling and we'd
(02:47):
get another eight to 12 weeks of counseling. Yay.
Well, on the fifth week, we got kicked out of marriage counseling, Jackie.
It was my fault. I was being stubborn. I didn't want to do this exercise that
the counselor had asked us to do.
Nevertheless, we were kicked out. So a couple of days later,
I was looking at my beautiful wife and I remember saying to myself,
(03:10):
it's a shame we didn't get the benefit of another eight to 12 weeks of counseling.
And I always tell people that I'm sure she could have learned something, jokingly.
But right. So I said, Lord, if I'm going to stay in this relationship,
I need to see some progress us right now, right now.
So I sat down and I started working on something because I wanted to help other
(03:34):
couples not go through what my wife and I had experienced, or at least what I had experienced.
And so as I was working on this, I realized that I didn't have any big problems with my wife.
You know, I didn't, I hadn't caught her lying or cheating or pausing my food or anything like that.
I just, I realized that if we were, had been able to resolve our disagreements
(03:55):
as As they occurred, then I wouldn't be in the predicament that I was in.
So I figured out a way to help couples resolve disagreements.
And what I ended up with is this game, couples coaching with instant results.
And I called it Why Be Angry.
And Jackie, it just works every time. The couple could have had disagreements
(04:15):
for 10, 20, 30, 40, even more than 50 years.
On average, they will resolve the disagreement in less than 26 minutes. 26 minutes.
I'm just amazed when I sit down with people and I coach them through playing
the game all the time. I've even coached marriage counselors.
If you watch my YouTube channel, which is called Why Be Angry TV now,
(04:40):
they search Why Be Angry TV on YouTube, and they see the one lady that she has
a hat on, and she goes, this is truly therapeutic because she's a marriage counselor.
She had had a problem, I think, for 22 years with her husband,
but they were able to settle it in no time.
It just works. It does.
(05:00):
It does. I'm a testament to that. I think any marriage, any couple can agree
that you're going to have challenges. You're going to have disagreements to
the point where sometimes it becomes a resentment.
And yet you know deep down you don't want to start over.
The grass isn't greener on the other side. Like we're talking about couples
(05:22):
who they're not experiencing abuse or, you know, narcissism or things, things like that.
These are your kind of common traditional marriage issues that if left uncared
for and unacknowledged can lead to resentment down the road. But they don't have to.
And again, that's why I think your approach is just so simple.
(05:43):
So let's share with the listeners what it is.
Hey, first, I want to say to you.
Since I started doing this, I can't tell you how many times I've heard,
my husband's a narcissist in the last year.
It's just, that seems like the go-to thing. And I don't even know if these people
know what narcissism is, but the issues, the things they're telling me,
(06:05):
I say, I don't know if that's being a narcissist.
I think you're just hearing that word and repeating it. But anyway.
And that's a good point. Actually, I'll entertain that with you.
I think the word does get thrown around a lot because people will use it when
their spouse is maybe always wanting to be right or always get the last word
or, you know, kind of all about themselves.
(06:25):
Or just stubborn. Yeah, stubborn. It comes off as egotistical.
All of that is typically a defense for something. It's part of resistance.
Can you tell me what it is? What narcissism is?
Yes. One of the best ways to know if you're truly dealing with a narcissist
or not is to get this book, Holy S, I'm Dealing with a Narcissist by Dr.
(06:46):
J.J. Kelly, Navigating Narcissism in the Workplace and Beyond.
But she actually talks about and goes into great detail what the clinical diagnosis
of narcissism is, but also what it is not.
It is it's very eye opening and enlightening. And it is true that a lot of people
are throwing that word around quite a bit, just like anxiety.
I'm triggered by things. You know, there's actual trauma triggers and then there's
(07:09):
just being, you know, set off.
So anyway, we could go down a whole other route with that.
But narcissism usually at the root of it is something that happened in your
first three years of life. I specialize in attachment, attachment disorders.
And usually there's been a break in attachment where the child doesn't trust
the adult because they see the adult as inflicting pain.
And that's a lot of times the root of a narcissistic diagnosis.
(07:30):
But yeah, tell us about how you came up with and what you call a gain that the
why be angry is actually a gain.
Okay, so I'll walk you through a few things here.
First, there are some ground rules, and there are three main ground rules.
And if a couple satisfies these ground rules, I believe it will work.
(07:52):
Every time. The first one is they both have to want to be in the relationship.
They both have to want the relationship to work because this is the kind of
game where you can't win by yourself.
The relationship has to win or you both lose.
You see, we're on the same team.
It's me and you against the issue.
So the problem is not you. The problem is the issue.
(08:17):
And it's me and you working against this issue. you. So we're on the same team.
That's one of the reasons why it works.
It's not me trying to get my point across to you and you're trying to get your
point across to me so that I can win or whatever.
It's us against the problem. So the second thing is you have to be honest about
whatever the subject of the game is.
(08:38):
So for example, the game makes us focus on one issue at a time.
So I tell people, I help people, couples stay together one issue at a time.
Because they're just going to focus on one thing at a time, depending on what
the rules in the house are.
I'm not going to be fussing at you about how the food tastes,
(08:59):
and then you turn around and start screaming at me about what the front yard looks like.
We're not talking about more than one thing at the same time.
We're going to talk about one thing.
So we start by agreeing ring on one issue to settle.
And the issue I use most often is, should we buy a new car?
I'll use that as an example. The third thing is you have to be able to count to 14.
(09:23):
There are literally 14 steps in this process.
And the steps are really simple. They just might not be very intuitive because
of how we've been handling our disagreements for the last two, three, or four decades.
Okay. So when I'm coaching couples, I do have to make sure they stay on track.
(09:44):
Sometimes I say, hey, wait, you're on number four and you're trying to do number eight right now.
So we'll talk about that later. So the first step I'm going to walk you through
a game is we have to agree on an issue.
Let's say I'm the man and you're a woman and you've been nagging me about buying a new car.
And so we're going to sit down and agree to play the game to resolve that issue.
(10:09):
The first step now is we have to convert that issue to a yes or no question.
That yes or no question is, should we buy a new car? Yes or no makes it real simple.
So now you want to buy a new car. I don't.
So what you're going to do first now is you're going to write down one detail
(10:31):
to support your yes position.
That detail might be this car has broken down on me three times in the last two months.
And then if you have another detail to support your issue, that might be you'd
write that on a different card and that might be this car is ugly.
And then maybe you have another one you write on a different card. This car is 40 years old.
(10:53):
You might have five, six or seven of them. OK, and you'd write them all down
on different cards in the game.
Now, I don't want to buy a new car, so I'm going to write down some things to
support my position. The first one might be, my granddad left me this car.
And another one on a different car might be, if this car breaks down,
(11:13):
I can fix it instead of having to take it to the shop.
And third one might be, we can't really afford a new car.
So let's just say we're going to play this game with just these six details.
So we have this one issue we're focusing on, but that issue is made up of six different details.
Now, what we're going to do is we're going to dive into those details one at a time and focus more,
(11:38):
because if you're screaming your three details at me, your three reasons why
we should, and I'm screaming my three reasons why we shouldn't,
there's still just chaos and confusion.
OK, now I believe if two people, two reasonable people have the same data in
their heads, they'll probably come up with the same reasonable conclusion if
they're reasonably compatible. incompatible. Okay.
(11:59):
So you're going to take your three reasons and you're going to rank them in
order of relevance, how important they are to this issue.
So car breaking down three times on you in the last two months, that might be a 10 to you.
We're going to rank them from one to 10 with 10 being most relevant. Okay.
And the car being ugly might be a eight to you.
(12:22):
And let's say the car being 40 years old is a seven to you.
Where for me, my granddad giving me this car might be a nine to me and me being
able to fix it if it breaks down might be an eight to me.
Us not being able to afford it wasn't really a big deal, but that's like a five.
Well, now we're going to take all of your details and all of my details and
(12:44):
we're going to put them together and we're going to put them in a stack in order of importance.
The most important on top. So that was your 10.
This card is broken down three times in the last two months.
What this does for us, it allows us to focus on the most important detail of
this issue, because a lot of times if we resolve this detail,
(13:06):
the other ones are inconsequential.
And don't matter so much.
If we don't do it that way, if we're not playing this game, you may come to
me and say, we need to buy a new car.
And then you may say, this car is 40 years old.
And I'm immediately going, no, my dad gave me this car. I'm not selling it.
And then once I resolve that issue for you, then you say, I'm tired of driving around in this car.
(13:32):
And then I'm going to say something else. And I resolve that issue.
Then you're going to come back maybe tomorrow with, You know,
I'm tired of this car. It wouldn't start today.
Now you're nagging me a day later, a week later, when if we can take care of
the most important thing first,
because what happens really, the reason why most people resolve their issues
in less than 26 minutes is because we talk about the most important detail of the issue first.
(13:57):
OK, and the game is over very quickly because we come to an agreement once we
resolve the biggest issue.
OK, so we stack the cards in order. Your 10 was on top.
You're going to pick up the card and you're going to say you're going to tell
me what you wrote and how important it is to you.
You're going to say this card is broken down on me three times in the last two
(14:18):
months. And that's a 10 to me.
Now, the next two steps, Jackie, steps four and five are the most important steps in the game.
They're on my side of the card. There's a front and back to the cards.
So now in these steps, I have to repeat back to you what I believe you mean
in my own words. And then I follow that with, is that right?
To make sure we're on the same page. What this does again, first,
(14:39):
it allows you to feel heard.
Secondly, when I do respond to what you've written, I can respond to what you
actually mean, not something I thought you meant.
So I'm going to say, so, honey, what you're saying to me is this car is broken
down on you three times in the last two months. So you're embarrassed by it.
Is that right? You'll say no.
(15:00):
Oh, so wait. So this car is broken down to you three times in the last two months.
So you don't feel safe. You say yes.
Now, for the rest of the conversation, we are seeing eye to eye.
We're talking about the same thing.
Okay. Which doesn't happen a lot of times when couples are arguing,
they're arguing at each other and don't even really talking about the same thing.
(15:24):
The next step, step six, I have to say whether this detail is or is not true.
And in this case, I'm going to say it is not true. This car broke down three
times in the last two months. And that's why we should buy a new car.
As you can imagine, it is hard for a couple to resolve an issue or to come to
an agreement on an issue when they can't agree on the facts of the issue,
(15:45):
the details of the issue.
So I love it when couples agree,
When I get a not true, because I know then if they come to an agreement on the
facts, they're going to settle this issue very quickly.
I might say it's not true because that might sound very factual.
The car is broken down three times and lasts too much. Right.
That that seems like it sounds like true or false. Right.
(16:07):
And but really, one of the times you are on the side of the freeway because
you had ran over a nail, the tire, you had a flat tire.
And you're counting that as the car breaking down. Now, well,
that can break down. You can run over a nail in a new car.
So I don't count that as a reason to buy a new car. After I respond to you like
that in step eight, steps nine and ten are just like steps four and five.
(16:30):
You repeat back to me what you believe.
I mean, in your own words, ask me, is that right? So you'd say something like,
so what you're saying to me is because I ran over a nail and got a flat tire.
That's not a reason to buy a new car because I can get a flat tire in a new car, too. Now, I say yes.
Step 11 is the focus discussion and debate section.
And here we just go back and forth and talking about this one detail as it relates to the issue.
(16:54):
We try our best to stay on the car breaking down three times in the last two
months in my response to that.
OK, so we're going to talk about that just a little bit. And you're going to
say, well, honey, I'm just tired of this car breaking down.
I don't want to get in the car from the grocery store and it doesn't crank.
Or I don't want to be on the side of the freeway again because one of those
times it wasn't a flat tire. The car just shut off.
(17:16):
I don't feel safe. And then I can respond to that and say, oh,
I didn't really think about that, honey.
I, you know, I mean, I thought as long as I can fix the car, it's OK.
And I'm never afraid when I'm on the side of freeway and it's dark.
But and I come and get you really quick.
I understand now that you might not know how long it's going to take.
But now I see what you're saying.
(17:38):
And then somewhere in there, you might say, and honey, you know,
you don't have to sell this car.
You can keep it. We just need to buy another car for me to drive.
You can keep your dad's car and do whatever you want to do to it.
OK, one, we have agreed to sit down and talk about this.
So you've got we've got each other's undivided attention right now because we're
(17:59):
agreeing to sit down and play this game.
That's much better than me watching the football game and you coming in the
house and I'm sick of this car. I want a new car.
And I'm telling myself, you know, I'm trying to watch the game and I know I'm
not going to sell my granddad's car. So I'm not trying to hear what you're saying right now.
Or I just finished. Maybe I just finished paying the bills. And now you're trying
(18:22):
to talk to me about getting a new car.
And I'm not really trying to hear it right now.
You know, but right now you have my undivided attention and I'm actually listening
to you and you're listening to me.
So the next step, step 12, is I am going to have to say what I took from this
interaction on this card.
(18:43):
And ideally, the person would start with, I feel better because,
and that's written on the card.
So I'm going to say, I feel better because now I understand why this card bothers
you so much. Your safety is an issue.
I want them to get in the habit of saying, so what you're saying to me is,
because once they learn how to play the game, they don't have to sit down and
play the game. They can walk around the house playing the game.
(19:05):
So if I come in the house late after work, and my wife says something to me
because she's frustrated, like, what took you so long? The food's cold already.
Then I can say, so what you're saying to me is, and when I do that,
it automatically puts her and me in the mind frame of the game,
(19:26):
where we're on the same side, and the problem is not me or you just coming home
late or the food being cold is the problem. We're still on the same page.
I'm just trying to understand what you mean right now, honey.
And it will bring the tempers down.
Yeah, I love this so much. I love it so much. And then the practice,
the more you do that, the more natural it becomes.
(19:47):
And what I really love about this, Rod, is that it's taken the emotion and the
personalization out of the problem.
That's what couples have said. Because I always ask when the game is over,
Or why, after so many years, were you able to resolve this in just a few minutes?
And a lot of times they'll say it seems like it took the emotions out of it.
Nobody ever gets angry or upset when they're playing the game.
(20:09):
When you see people and when you see people laughing, when you go to the Why
Be Angry TV YouTube channel and you see people laughing, there's no there are no jokes in the game.
There's nothing funny about the game. They're laughing at what they say to each other.
And which never happens when you're having a heated argument.
Right. So step 12, I feel better because now I understand why you get so frustrated
(20:32):
by this call because you're concerned for your safety.
Then 13, you're going to say same thing, why you feel better.
And ladies, more than anything, will always say something like,
I feel better because I feel heard.
OK, I must always say that I feel heard. And I think that's because they had
(20:53):
his undivided attention.
She's told him a hundred times, but she didn't tell him at the right time or
she didn't present it to him the right way.
Or maybe he just didn't perceive it the right way. You have to realize that
if you're telling him the 50th time to pick his clothes up off the floor and
put them in the dirty clothes basket,
You're probably not saying that with the same attitude and tone that you said
(21:19):
it the first two or three times.
And rightfully so. And he's probably feeling that tension and goes into some kind of defense mode.
Or if you are telling him for the 75th time, then rightfully so.
He needs to be told again. But if you're telling him for the 75th time,
he might feel nagged right now because you're telling him this again.
(21:42):
Again, I know right now I might sound like the woman is always trying to resolve an issue.
A lot of times the guy's trying to resolve an issue, too. Like the most common
issue I have recorded is the should she initiate sex more often?
Yeah. And we're going to let them watch the TEDx because you give a great example
of that in your TEDx talk.
And I've got that link for that in the show notes. So number 14,
(22:03):
the last step, we have to agree whether there was any progress on this one detail
card, this one detail here.
Again it's helping us move forward and so
almost always they'll say yes there was progress the
second part of it is was there enough progress to
win the game have we resolved it and the vast
(22:23):
majority of times there was enough progress to resolve the issue and the game's
over so one of the things that people say is that this levels the playing field
because you know in most relationships one person is going to be more articulate
or more dominant than the other person And they're going to have a better chance
of getting their points across more often,
(22:43):
which leaves the other person, you know, on the losing side.
OK, so what happens is once we get it all out, the issue is absolutely, totally resolved.
So when I call back six months later to check on the couple,
this issue is still fine.
It all comes out and they're all feeling good. Yeah, it's I mean, it is so good.
(23:06):
It is a game. You actually set this up into a game.
So people do not have to come to you to learn this and to coach through this.
They can buy the game for 20 bucks.
Right, right. They can learn how to play it.
If they aren't figuring it out, if they need a little more assistance,
that's where you come in. Right.
So there are step by step color coded instructions on the first four pages of the game.
(23:31):
The card has one through 14 on it. It's pretty easy.
But like I said, it's not intuitive because we've been resolving our disagreements
a certain way for however many years.
And so a lot of times I have to say, wait a minute, we're not on step eight
yet. We're just on step four.
Yeah, and that is key to follow it step by step. No cheating in this game.
Right, right. I think people are skeptical about how effective this can really be.
(23:55):
Seems like someone would have come up with this, you know, like I said, 100 years ago.
Well, and like I said, sometimes, you know, before we started recording,
sometimes we make this stuff harder than it needs to be.
And here at No Problem Parenting, we're all about turning problems into no problem.
Right in the definition of the word problem, it says, a problem is a matter
or situation that is unwelcome or harmful and needing to be dealt with and overcome.
(24:22):
Why be angry is the exact, like, we can use this in our relationship and with
our kids, in our conversations with our kids.
This is so adaptable. I am going to sing your praises and promote the heck out
of this game and get a copy for myself here at my house. It's really, truly brilliant.
And sometimes it is the most simple ideas that have the biggest impact, Rod.
(24:47):
So I'm thrilled to share this. Let me say, too, that I believe the quickest
way to reduce the stress in the workplace is to reduce the amount of stress
employees bring to work.
So if employers would help their employees be happy at home,
then they'll come to work happier and do a better job at work.
(25:10):
In my opinion, everyone could can use this game because everyone has issues and disagreements.
Yeah. Well, you're just getting started and we're here to promote you and sing
your praises and get this into the hands of every couple, every relationship,
even if you're not struggling yet.
You know, this would be a great wedding gift. It is.
I tell people they should use this game before they decide to make a commitment
(25:35):
because it will show you if you are compatible with the person.
It really simplifies things. And it's better to know before you get married
than after you get married that you aren't really compatible. Right.
Much less when you bring kids into the world, that always adds extra stress
and it can make you misinterpret each other and you're tired as all get out.
(25:55):
And, you know, so you're irritated more easily and all the things.
So this has just been so great, Rod. I really appreciate you being on the show.
I've got links in the show notes to purchase the Why Be Angry game,
as well as your website, whybeangry.com.
Your YouTube channel is on there.
We've got all the links for the listeners. Thank you so much for finding the
(26:16):
No Problem Parenting podcast, reaching out and being on the show.
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Hey, thanks for tuning in today, parents. Remember, we can turn any problem into a no problem.
We can create connection and relationship.
So come on board. Join our parenting community. Go to noproblemparents.com to get started today.
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