All Episodes

June 7, 2024 28 mins

In this episode, we introduce Lori Sugarman Li -  author of the new children's book, "Our Home." Lori shares her inspiring journey from a successful career to full-time family care and community involvement. She sheds light on the often undervalued and unseen work of homemakers, emphasizing the importance of recognizing and sharing these responsibilities within the family.

Discover Lori's insights on drafting a family agreement based on shared values and how this can enhance your family's daily life. Learn about her "family flow system" and how to start conversations that ensure every family member contributes meaningfully to the home. Lori also discusses the importance of context and passion in family tasks, helping kids see the value in their contributions.

Don't miss out on tips for making domestic tasks less stressful and more efficient and using these moments as opportunities for connection and bonding.

Become a No Problem Parent Today!

Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the No Problem Parenting Podcast, your go-to resource for navigating
the ups and downs of parenthood with confidence.
I'm your host, Jackie Finneman, a parenting advocate with over 30 years of experience
counseling kids and coaching parents.
Become a part of our No Problem Parenting community as each week we explore
practical strategies, share heartfelt stories, and empower you to become the

(00:24):
confident leader your kids crave you to be.
Let's turn any parenting challenge or problem into a no problem together.
Remember to subscribe and leave a review and learn more about our membership
community and resources at noproblemparents.com.
Real quick, No Problem Parents, are you looking for a magical way to keep your

(00:45):
kids entertained this summer?
Meet the Tony Box, the squishy, snuggly, and totally tumble-proof audio player
that kids can control all by themselves.
With over 200 Tonys to choose from, there's a Tony for every part of the day,
from morning songs to bedtime stories.
And the best part, it's completely screen free.

(01:05):
Help your little ones discover the joy of imaginative play and learning with Tonys.
Visit tonys.com to shop now and bundle and save.
That's tonys, T-O-N-I-E-S.com.
And check out episode 244 with Drew Vernon to learn more about Tony's and how
Tony's is helping parents, teachers, and child care providers.

(01:28):
All right, welcome back, No Problem Parents, to the No Problem Parenting podcast,
where we choose to deal with and overcome the challenges in our home.
And speaking of our home, we have the author of the new children's book called Our Home.
Lori Sugarman Lee is with us today.
I'm so grateful that you're here. Welcome to the show. Thanks so much. I'm happy to be with you.

(01:51):
I absolutely love everything about this children's book. Tell us a little bit
about your personal journey, and what led you to write the book Our Home?
Oh, thank you. So I was working in a 15-year paid career as a marketing communications
specialist for Four Seasons Hotels.
And when I had my first child, what was a fabulous gig before baby became a

(02:14):
little bit complicated, and the flexibility that I tried to negotiate at the
time just wasn't on offer.
So I thought, you know what? Let me pivot into this beautiful unpaid career
of full-time family care and really, really strong community involvement.
And I loved it and I thrived. And it ended up taking us to London,
England for four years with my husband's job and then now to Chicago.

(02:37):
And every time we move, we need to reestablish all of our foundational family
documents like insurance and wills and whatnot.
And when we landed in Chicago, my husband said to me, look, it's just the four
of us here. We don't have any kind of a safety net.
So if anything happens to you, he said, I will take a leave from work.
So let's get you set up with disability insurance.

(02:59):
So we went through all the, jumped through all the hoops of applications and
medicals and everything, only for me to be rejected by the insurance agent who said to me,
ma'am, we don't value homemakers that high.
And I said, I'm sorry, what? This is thousands of hours of work.

(03:22):
And he said, yes, but because you don't receive a salary for this work,
there really is no tangible loss if something happens to you.
And it really just sort of lit me on fire to realize that all of this work,
which we call unpaid care, being contributed by women,

(03:45):
primarily, by the way, women who work outside of the home as well for pay are
carrying an inequitable load of this care work.
And to know that it is utterly devalued by
society that to find that it's not counted by the GDP or other economic indicators
and for this man to so easily dismiss me as a non-contributor because he doesn't

(04:08):
see value in this work really set me on a mission to talk about the work of care,
to talk about this work that is unpaid, but super valuable to our families.
If you think about it, the work of care is really the work that allows all other work to happen.
And so I thought, how can I impact? And I started studying and reading and writing and connecting.

(04:31):
And I found a lot of other people, mostly women, who were also trying to start
conversations to raise awareness about the devaluing of the work of care.
And they're doing all these incredible things like impacting government policy
and corporate policy and C-suites and adult relationships.
And I looked at my platform at that time and I thought, what can I credibly

(04:52):
do to contribute to this conversation?
And I thought, after my years focused on raising my kids and involvement in
their schools and strong involvement in children's charities worldwide,
I feel like I can talk to kids.
And so I wrote a book about the power of families and how we care for one another

(05:13):
and the space that we share to start a conversation about the value of the work
of the home and the importance of equity in this work. I love the work of care.
Just that phrase, just that title, the work of care.
It's so true. What do we do when that person is hurt or harmed or needs disability or even passes?

(05:36):
Right. Exactly. Exactly. And who picks up those pieces and how do you even know
what that person all did?
This is a conversation that's really just beginning. And I think there's a few pieces to that.
First of all, so much of the work of home is invisible, right?
It happens sort of in the shadows, like silently and magically happens when
kids are sleeping or when kids are at school or whatever.

(05:59):
And, you know, so much of it is mental, right? We know this mental load that women carry.
You have this ticker tape in your head that's just constantly going of all the
things that you've noticed or that you have to remember or that you can't forget
or that you don't want to miss.
But it just sort of lives silently there.
And we don't have a resume often for this work, and we don't have annual reviews

(06:22):
to reflect on our growth and our achievement and our contributions.
It just sort of happens, right? Like a hamster wheel.
But it's so foundational, right?
And very often we use the word chores, right, to describe a lot of it.
But it's such a mismatch for me, that word, because the word chore really is

(06:43):
defined as something that's sort of unappealing or dreaded or repetitive and difficult.
Right. But this work of care and the work of family is about nurturing and nourishing
and creating environments that are
safe and healthy and protecting our investments like our home, our car,
and adhering to community and municipal standards.

(07:06):
And it is beautiful work. It's foundational work.
And it's a ton of work.
And we just sort of take for granted that we're going to make it happen somehow
on top of everything else that we're doing.
And the fact that women carry such an inequitable load is becoming a wellness issue.

(07:26):
And that's why we have to really talk about it now.
One of the things I'm thinking of when you say chores, you know,
sure, there are certain things that are chores.
But for the most part, what I teach and what I share with families is their
family contributions and who's contributing and how can they contribute and
what is their passion in contributing?
You know, what is the thing they love to do? And I know you talk a little bit

(07:49):
about bringing families together to talk about what truly matters to them.
And you explain how drafting a family agreement based on shared values really
enhances the family's daily life.
Does that fit into this kind of family contribution idea?
A hundred percent. So I love this as a starting point for families who are feeling
a little bit stuck or a little bit imbalanced or like one person is feeling

(08:13):
kind of heavy and overwhelmed.
A great place for families to start is by gathering and saying,
okay, guys, we are a team.
We are flowing through this life together as a unit. We rely on each other.
We support each other. We have a lot going on.
And there is a lot involved in caring for this home and caring for ourselves.

(08:35):
Are we approaching it with the highest level of awareness and the highest level of efficiency?
And I think for most families, the answer is probably not because this isn't
something that we often stop and take stock on, right?
And so the opportunity, and I love this as an opportunity for families,

(08:55):
even with young children to say, we can make this life whatever we want it to be,
but we have to be connected and we have to understand each other's needs and
we have to understand each other's struggles and complications and really talk
actively and supportively about how we want to move forward together.

(09:19):
And that involves a lot of emotional And that involves like a lot of like tactical stuff, right?
Like dishes and laundry and garbage and things that need to be handled and and
who can take part and how.
That leads me to wondering about this idea that you have a family flow system.
And what do you mean by that? I mean, is that the framework that we're creating

(09:41):
for the conversations, the to-dos, the tasks?
Exactly. Exactly. So it's really just this recognition that the family unit
is such a fascinating thing, right?
And we all have our own vibe and our own processes and our own rituals and our own cadence.
And each family is so unique and so different.
And what any other family does doesn't matter. It's our little family unit.

(10:07):
We have what's important to us. We're connected on what our values are.
And we create standards for ourselves that are offshoots of those values without concern of judgment,
without worrying about what anyone else is doing, but in honor of and in recognition
of what makes us thrive as a family.

(10:27):
And so it's just the opportunity to reflect, to take a second and reflect on
how fascinating that actually is.
Because normally we're running so fast.
We're just trying to get through it all, right? Trying to survive.
But there's so much beauty in it when you stop and reflect.
And inevitably, there's a chance to make it more efficient and less stressful.
I love it. Working moms will come to me and they'll say they feel this guilt

(10:51):
that they're at work and they are not at their kids' events.
Or they don't have time in the summer to spend with their kids when their kids
are home from school and have more flexibility of time, but yet they love their work.
And so there's this like tug of war between, and then their kids will say,
feel bad because mom can't be at the soccer game on a summer Thursday morning.

(11:14):
And the parent will feel this guilt and it's like, own your family's schedule,
the things that are important to each one of you so that your kiddos don't have
to feel bad that, you know, Sally's mom is there and Susie's mom isn't.
Yeah. And it's the honoring of even those feelings that are hard, right?

(11:35):
And it's the ability for that mom to say, that was hard for me to not be there
today. I was thinking about you all day.
I would have loved so badly to be there. I want you to know,
I want you to understand where I was and what I was doing and why the two things
conflicted and why I made the choice I made.

(11:56):
I bet that you are amazing and I want to hear all about it, right?
Yeah, and I say, parents can say, you know, what I had, I had Sally's mom take
video and she sent it to me so that when I was on my break from work,
I got to see you and I'm so excited, you know?
And like, we can change the conversation, step-three adult problem parenting,
around how we approach that without feeling sorry for our kids or sad as if

(12:17):
it's some negative thing.
Because the good news is with this working mom that they have the means and
the time to take family vacations where they are super intentional and present
during those weekend vacations or those, you know, week-long vacations.
So I love this so much, like just totally owning your family's way of being
a family without any jealousy or, you know, guilt.

(12:41):
Unapologetically. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. And also knowing that,
and also knowing that, you know, it changes from time to time as your family dynamic changes.
And so, you know, this family meeting that I I suggest is something that really
should be repeated with whatever the cadence is that's right for your family.
If you want to do it weekly, fabulous.
If you can only manage to do it monthly or quarterly, whatever.

(13:04):
But just this idea that everybody in the family can have such an important voice
in setting the tone and setting the vibe for how your family moves.
Yep. So great. I just absolutely love all of this.
So how do you start that? Or what are some of the things, maybe even give a
couple of tips or pointers for families to even begin that conversation,

(13:24):
that framework for talking about what they want their family to look like,
what their maybe values and beliefs are in their family, and then their schedule,
and then who gets to do what task. Like, how do you even start all of this?
Right. So when you focus on the tasks of domestic labor specifically,
right, because this is the opportunity for really the clear division vision

(13:46):
and the unloading of this epic weight that mothers carry.
What I love to do is start by asking everybody, like, what feels important to you about this space?
So if you're having the meeting in the kitchen, what do we love about this kitchen?
What's frustrating about this kitchen? When do we thrive in this kitchen?
And then similarly, bedrooms, right? Like.

(14:10):
I have quite a type A personality. I like everything to be just so,
put away, tucked in. My kids know this about me.
My older son thrives in a different kind of environment, and he has really been
open to sharing this with me.
He wants to be surrounded by the things that are meaningful to him.
He wants things up on surfaces and trophies and Legos that he made five years

(14:33):
ago and cards that he got for his birthday when he was three and all these things
that are meaningful and important. And he wants them to be out and surrounding him and inspiring him.
And so he says to me, you know, like, I don't want to put this away.
Like for me, that's not, that's not what makes me happy. And so it's just honoring
and understanding that we're all wired differently.
And even though we share a space, we may have different needs for it.

(14:57):
So being open and honest about that, and then coming to agreements on what we
can all manage for public spaces, like the kitchen or the living room,
it's going to be a shared understanding.
And for spaces like a child's bedroom, you know, you help them understand what
their best self is in that space and without sort of applying your own standards to it.

(15:18):
So just talking about this stuff, I mean, I know it might not sound sexy to
suggest having a chat about garbage, but I promise you, sitting down and having
this conversation once means you probably won't ever have to do it again.
And it's very liberating to actually say, oh, I never thought of that as being

(15:40):
a part of this. What are all the steps here?
And whoever's going to own this task, this is all that's involved.
So if you just understand it holistically and take it on, then the rest of us are released from it.
So if you approach all the tasks of the home in that way with a full and complete
understanding and ownership, then ultimately you have a machine that is much

(16:01):
more efficient and less stressful for everybody.
Taking out the garbage can just seem like a chore, but there is so much more
to it. It's not just about taking that bag out and throw it in the garage.
It's what if it leaked into the garbage container and whose responsibility then
is it to clean up the garbage can?
How does that matter? That chore, doing that job or that family contribution
matter to the rest of the family to keep the family running smoothly so that

(16:26):
there isn't that annoyance or frustration or the nagging coming from mom?
That's it. Like you really own your contribution.
That's so great. I love that.

(17:03):
And that's what starting at this young age with a book like what I wrote for
five to eight-year-olds is all about.
It's all about unlearning the socialization of gender roles and getting back
to basics that work of care is a space where we are all needed and where we are all very capable.

(17:24):
I mean, men are just as wonderful at any of these things as women are.
It's just that society has led us to expect that women will always step up to a greater degree.
And that's not healthy for us anymore.
And it's not necessary because so many other people are absolutely capable of

(17:45):
making these contributions.
Hey parents, summer is here and we have the perfect way to keep your kids entertained
and learning, all without screens.
Introducing the Tony Box, a magical, squishy, and snuggly audio player that's
completely tumble-proof and kid-friendly.
With the Tony Box, your children can listen to their favorite stories,
songs, and educational content, with over 200 Tonys to choose from.

(18:09):
From superheroes to princesses, there's a Tony for every moment of the day.
Imagine your mornings filled with joyful songs, music during focus play and
during meals, and winding down with bedtime stories from sleepy friends.
Parents love how the Tony Box reduces screen time while turning playtime into learning time.
Discover the magic of a screen-free summer with Tony's. Visit tonys.com to shop

(18:32):
starter sets and bundle and save.
There's a link in the show notes. And check out episode 244 with Drew Vernon
to learn more about Tony's and how they're helping parents, teachers,
and child care providers at home and in the classroom.
How do you get the kids to see the value of the unpaid work that goes into running
the home? Is that a specific conversation?

(18:52):
Yeah. So the first thing that's really important is to understand the scope
of it because it is so massive.
And as I mentioned before, so much of it is unseen, right? Especially by kids.
And that's understandable, especially when they're small, they're sleeping,
they're at daycare, or they're at school or whatever.
But what I realized when I was parenting my young kids and trying to do everything

(19:14):
sort of silently and magically and keep everything perfect.
And when my husband would get home from work, everything would be perfect,
perfect because I was coming from this professional place where everything I
did, I wanted to perform, right?
And so in this role, it was no different. I wanted everything to be done at a high, high level.
But It occurred to me that when he walks in the door at six o'clock and sees

(19:37):
that everything's perfect, he doesn't really understand the evolution to that.
He's not aware of the 500 things that I did, right?
And my kids weren't either. And even if we ever talked about,
you know, tidying up or things that you would try to impart.

(19:59):
There wasn't a lot of context for it.
And so what I realized is an opportunity to start doing this work a lot more
loudly, talk a lot more about all of the things that I'm doing and why I'm doing them is so important.
So, for kids not to just see a chore chart or a list of to-dos,

(20:19):
but to really understand the meaning behind all of these things that we do to
care for our space and our investments and for each other.
So, for example, I'd love to give this example, my 13-year-old,
if I were to say to him, I need you to change your sheets today.
Obviously, he's going to be annoyed. Why would a 13-year-old boy ever be interested

(20:40):
in that, right? Or a 13-year-old girl, for that matter.
But if I can say to him, you know what, buddy, it is indicated by science that
sleeping on clean sheets will help facilitate clear skin.
So how about if every Monday you and I together change your sheets out,

(21:01):
I'll show you how to wash them, get all the like dead skin.
And I sort of like illustrate for him, like what, what is it about these used
sheets that need to be switched off? and then suddenly he's got a huge stake in this, right?
He's like, oh, I don't want dirty sheets. I'm like, I don't want dirty pillowcase.
Like, absolutely, yes. Can you help me? Like, I wanna do this.

(21:22):
I wanna change my sheets.
Understanding the why, right? And with little kids too, very often we're encouraging
them to go through their toys and their books and to remove things that they're no longer using.
But then what happens typically is it feels like it's a loss for them, right?
And they have this renewed attachment to all these things that they probably

(21:43):
haven't touched in ages and it's hard to let them go.
But if you can provide the context of this concept of circular economy and what
the impact of sharing those things on can be to another child, to another community,
if you take them to make the donation and again, provide the why behind the

(22:04):
impact of that work, then they feel proud,
they feel connected and they're more willing to do it. And so I love the idea of the context.
And then the final piece is like what we talked about before is the energy behind this work of home.
And maybe we can't find another word other than chore.

(22:24):
But ultimately, if we can talk about this work as what it really is,
which is acts of gratitude for all that we have really at its core, right?
It's not just annoying, dreaded. I mean, okay, yes, a pile of laundry is daunting and it's exhausting,
but the fact that we have a laundry machine in our house and probably enough soap,

(22:51):
we never run out and we have the ability to get the stains off of the soccer
shirts and whatever it is, is actually amazing. Amazing.
And if we can just take a breath and because our kids are feeling our energy
around this work, right?
And if we want to get them more involved, we have to be, you know,

(23:11):
through osmosis and through our language and through how we approach it ourselves,
we have to show that it is valuable and founded in gratitude so that they will feel that too.
It's so good. So good. Years ago, I learned about the family contribution thing
and having a meeting with your kiddos.
Now, this can be, they may be teenagers already. They may be littles.

(23:32):
It works for everyone. You just tailor it a little bit, tweak your conversation.
But to sit down, everybody gets a piece of paper.
Or mom or dad writes, if they're too little to write, you just say,
hey, everybody, let's talk about family contributions.
And everybody write down what you're providing for the family.
What are you contributing to the family? It doesn't mean just chores, right?
It could be, I'm the kid that's always excited at the end of the day,

(23:54):
you know, and I bring the humor and I bring the light.
And the parents can write down, you know, the bills they pay,
the house, you know, the things that the grocery shopping they do,
the getting the stains out of the jerseys. And the parents list is all of a
sudden like three pages.
And then you've got a teenager who's got like two things on there,
you know, picking up dog poop and taking the garbage out.

(24:15):
And after everybody sees the list, it's not to inspire guilt or to create guilt
or shame in it, but it's just to go, oh, yeah. So like, look at your list.
Is there anything you think you can take from mom or dad or older sisters list
that you enjoy doing, or at least don't have a problem doing?
And you can add that to your family contributions. It is so fun to do.

(24:37):
Yeah. And it's so important what you're saying, this idea of connecting from
a place of passion or a place of confidence or a place of skill to a specific task in the house.
We're not all built the same. And some of us have skills and talents that someone
else in the family may not have in the same way.

(25:00):
And so I love this idea of figuring out, well, my one son has really great organizing skills.
So he's the guy that I bring in to help me unload the groceries and organize the pantry.
My other son is very motivated by listening to music.
And so he does a lot of the things that he can do with his headphones on. He's the vacuuming guy.

(25:21):
And then, you know, you may have a child who thrives more in partnership or
with some kind of support.
And so they would be a great one to bring in with you into the laundry space and.
You know, just help you like, oh, can you sort the white socks and the black
socks or whatever it is, you know, bit by bit or even the Tupperware drawer
or maybe yard work, right.

(25:43):
Which can be very sort of therapeutic, right.
And just really connect. And just also this idea,
you know, you referenced how good it feels to connect as a family and just this
idea that we so often think of like chores as the have to do's that we have
to get out of the way before we can have to do what we want to do and have the fun.

(26:04):
And I just want to suggest to your community that the work of the home in and
of itself can be an amazing opportunity for connection and bonding and empowerment and teaching.
And I have so many memories of my childhood with my dad where we were sweeping
the garage together and we had the radio on or where I was steadying him on a ladder.

(26:27):
He was reaching up into the attic or something. thing. And those were bonding moments too.
And so just being open to saving some time for doing that together.
So good. Absolutely so good. So where can people get the book and tell us all the things?
The book is available actually for pre-order right now, almost anywhere books are sold.
So Barnes and Noble, Walmart, Target, Amazon, and a bunch of beautiful independent

(26:53):
booksellers across the country too.
And I can be found on Instagram. My handle is at ourhomeourpride.
And getting back to what we were talking to at the beginning,
when I refer to pride, it's that feeling of safe and happy in your own skin
and in your own space based on your own values.

(27:16):
Not any kind of pride and perfection, but what feels perfect to you.
And then I'm on LinkedIn, Lori Sugarman-Leak.
We have to go back to that pride thing, because I love that you just said that.
I always, people say, oh, you must be so proud of your son.
It's like, I'm happy for my son. Yeah. And yes, of course, but pride,
I think, is icing on the cake.

(27:37):
That's not an expectation.
It's definitely not an expectation. But when people say that,
and I often, even posting something about him, I'm so happy for him if he succeeded
at something or excelled at something or had a good time with something.
But I want him to feel that pride from the inside out, not from me.
So, man, we're speaking from the same podium here. We're in sync. Yes, we are.

(27:59):
Absolutely. So happy to have you in my circle of resources.
And parents, I just encourage you, the illustrations in the book,
Our Home, it's just absolutely beautiful. It's wonderful.
And I love the idea of work of care and acknowledgement for those of you who
are providing for your families and doing all the things that nobody even knows you're doing.
So just love this as a source of acknowledgement and validation.

(28:23):
For stay at home parents or homemaking parents. And I'm so appreciative that
you were on the show. Thanks for being here. Thank you so much.
I love chatting with you.
Hey, thanks for tuning in today. Parents remember, we can turn any problem into a no problem.
We can create connection and relationships.
So come on board, join our parenting community, go to noproblemparents.com to get started today.
Advertise With Us

Popular Podcasts

Crime Junkie

Crime Junkie

Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.

24/7 News: The Latest

24/7 News: The Latest

The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.

Stuff You Should Know

Stuff You Should Know

If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

Connect

© 2025 iHeartMedia, Inc.