Welcome Back No-Problem Parents!
Are you struggling to maintain your confidence as a parent while juggling school challenges? Our guest experts, Dr. Ardium and Dr. Wallace, introduce their groundbreaking book, "Wisest Learners," designed to transform your approach to your child's academic success.
In this episode, we learn the three-step Parental Engagement Cycle (PEC)—modeling, Elucidation, and Feedback—and discuss the power of words and effective strategies to motivate your child from within.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey there, parents. Thanks for listening to the No Problem Parenting Podcast.
Are you ready to become the confident leader your kids crave you to be?
Are you losing your crap on your kids, yelling, giving in, and exhausted at the end of every day?
You are already a good parent, and I'm sure you've sought advice from friends
or family. You've read books on your child's specific behavior problem.
(00:20):
Maybe you've even signed them up to see the school counselor or an outpatient therapist.
But despite your efforts to find the right person or thing that will help,
your family is still struggling.
You're tired of pretending everything's okay.
Well, if your confidence is shot and you feel like you're failing your kids,
but you also don't have a ton of time or money, register to become a No Problem Parent for just $50.
(00:42):
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whether your child is a toddler or all grown up and still living in your house.
Don't make this parenting gig harder than it needs to be. Become a No Problem Parent today.
(01:03):
Welcome to the No Problem Parenting podcast. From toddler tantrums to teenage eye rolls,
this podcast is your go-to for updated and old school tips and tools that are
going to help you become the confident leader your kids crave you to be.
Do you ever wish there was a specific manual that came with each one of your kids?
(01:23):
I mean, what works for one often doesn't work for the other, right?
And let's face it, we don't know what we don't know.
And even if there was a manual, it probably wouldn't be able to keep up with
all the changes in our world.
Well, this podcast is the next best thing. I'm your host, Jackie Finneman,
a 30-year counselor turned parenting coach, and I've got a lot to share,
including hundreds of resources that you have access to right from your home
(01:48):
and strategies that are going to boost your confidence and energize you.
So whether you're knee deep in diapers or navigating the tween years,
or you're launching your child into adulthood, subscribe and share this podcast
with your friends, teachers, and daycare providers.
We're going to turn your parenting problems into no problem one episode at a time.
(02:10):
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(02:57):
Welcome back, No Problem Parents, to the No Problem Parenting podcast,
where we choose to deal with and overcome the emotional, the behavioral,
year old, the challenges within our home, raising kids.
And today I've brought on two authors of a new book called Wisest Learners.
This is the parent edition for unlocking the secrets to your child's academic success.
(03:18):
Welcome to the show, Dr. Ardium and Dr. Wallace.
Thanks for having us here today.
Jackie, thank you so much for this opportunity to share about our book.
I really want to jump right into the book because you guys have put so much
research and education into this book for parents.
So Dr. Wallace, share a little bit about how you and Dr. Artyom came together to write the book.
(03:43):
So I was a school administrator for about 14 years.
And during the time that I was managing school, I saw the need for students
to be able to learn how to be effective learners.
Most of the time, school would teach the what or even why. Why?
(04:03):
But most of the time to teach about study skills or being able to be effective
or optimal learners, that's kind of like glossed over.
And I would understand because schools have a lot of pressure to cover a lot
of ground when it comes to the curricula.
So I decided to take up my PhD in educational psychology to go deep into this issue.
(04:29):
And during the time when I was taking up my PhD, I encountered a lot of amazing research study,
like amazing, like, wow, this will be so good for my parents,
my teachers, my students.
The only thing is that they're not known to the public. They're like bottled
(04:51):
up in this secret bottle.
Like where only the researchers know about it, right? I think Dr.
Ardium and I were We're talking about that previously. Yeah.
And because these are so important, but people have to pay, right? Yeah.
There's a paywall that would prevent the average Joe from being able to access those.
(05:11):
And not only that, these research studies are quite technical as well.
So you need to have some technical background to be able to fully understand.
And I thought that, oh, this needs to be brought out to the public.
At around the same time, that's when I met Dr. Artyom.
That's right. So basically, I'm a father of two and my older son is now 10 years
(05:35):
old. And a few years back, he started school.
And then that's when, you know, all
the, you know, difficulties to school adaptation, to learning happened.
And we struggled a lot. And I then approached Dr. Wallace, you know,
headmaster back then for 14 years, asking for his advices on what should I do?
What would be the best strategies for me to deal with school issues?
(05:56):
And, you know, how to help my son learn better and adapt better.
And Dr. Wallace said, well, you're a cognitive neuroscientist.
Why don't you approach it, you know, scientifically?
Why don't you, you know, see what the literature says, what,
you know, the science says about this?
And yeah, we started exploring research studies together, just exploring what's
the best way to learn, you know, what's the way to adapt to school and so on.
(06:20):
And interestingly, as Dr. Wallace also mentioned, sometimes I would be saying,
oh, check it out, this paper. and then I would send the title over.
But Dr. Wallace wouldn't have access because he's not at a university that has
a subscription to these research studies.
And I would then have to send PDFs over for him to read it.
And we thought, wow, I mean, there is a big amount of knowledge that is not
(06:42):
readily available to everyone.
And now we could use our expertise in educational psychology and the company
of neuroscience to basically translate this all research into a common language.
And we would be able to share with just everyone, all the parents who are out
there struggling as I was, so that that could help their kids as well.
(07:02):
So that's how the idea came to share what we've learned.
Well, that's amazing. And what's your son's name?
He's Alexander. I think we all have Alexander to thank for this then,
because it's because of him that brought the two of you together. So that is amazing.
He's already served a great purpose on this world.
(07:24):
Alexander, kudos to you. There's so much in this book.
I think we could do several episodes of the podcast just sharing everything.
Thing. But of course, we want people to go out and grab the book.
Who is the ideal reader for this book?
The ideal reader in this book is a parent who is very much concerned in their
child's lives, particularly when it pertains to their academic success,
(07:49):
wanting to optimize the potential of their children.
So the kind of parent that would be so heavily involved would be very ideal.
Someone that's like, okay, I'm concerned, I'm engaged, I want to make the most
out of whatever is available.
And this can be a very, very busy parent having triple jobs.
(08:11):
That's the kind of parent that we have. In reading it, I see it as if you're
a parent out there, you have really high standards, academic standards for your kids.
Education is a priority and college education, and that's really important to you as a parent,
this book, I think, helps you kind of get that in check while still guiding
(08:33):
your child that intrinsic learning, which we're going to talk about in a little
bit, but really be interested in it.
Rather than you feeling like the parent who always needs to harp on your child
to do well and to succeed, you guys are really laying out some great ideas here
that are going to help you have high standards for your kid while at the same
time supporting your child.
(08:53):
That's true. That's true. That's a very good point. And then we do make a lot
of emphasis on academic success or educational attainment.
But one of the qualities of WISIS learner that we describe is a lifelong learner.
So someone who is going to study well in school and then in college and that's
it. it, but this is someone who is able to learn lifelong, who has the skills, mindset, beliefs.
(09:20):
Everything set to learn, you know, intuitively to learn as a second nature.
And we're speaking with Dr. Wallace that, you know, my mom, for instance,
she used to work in the same bank for almost all her life.
Like it was one job she did all her life. And then one position just did it
well, hard work, but the same thing again and again and again.
(09:42):
But nowadays, you know, development of the the artificial intelligence,
you know, changing jobs, changing industries.
One is forced to learn a new almost every few years.
A lot of my friends like in IT, in media, in many other fields,
it's like a mandatory thing to change a job every three years.
(10:03):
And if you stay in one position for over three years, sometimes your resume
will not even be looked at.
You're staying there for too long. You need to develop. You need to progress. constantly.
So this is sort of the environment we would like to prepare kids for.
So an environment where people have to learn constantly. And that's one of the
(10:25):
definitions of WISIS learners.
Love that. Absolutely love that. I'm glad you point that out too,
because it's not just about academic learning.
And I love that you say it's like the lifelong, just that interest and passion
for always being curious and always wanting to ask why or to learn more,
which the parents listening today who have a child right now that's always saying, why, why, why?
(10:47):
I know that gets annoying, but that is a signal that that kiddo is a lifelong
learner already, just naturally.
So I think that's awesome. Awesome. Well, as we begin here, I think one of the
key things that you set the stage for this book is helping parents to learn
what their role is in their child's learning process.
And so you have developed a three-step sort of model called the parental engagement cycle.
(11:12):
Can you tell us a little bit more about that, Dr. Wallace? Jackie,
one of the critical aspects of the book is that if I were to,
if we were to, let's say, differentiate it from other books, our book is holistic.
So what it means is that it has, it's like, if I were to use an analogy,
(11:36):
it's like, instead of just having a single vitamin, like, you know,
like vitamin A is important, vitamin B is important.
So you have, you can read, let's say, other books and you'll have of like a
vitamin A or vitamin B or a vitamin C or a vitamin D.
But how we came up with it is that we have a multivitamin because every single
(11:56):
thing is like, so every vitamin is so important, every supplement,
you know, like these are important.
And we put it together in such a way that we recognize the value of each one.
And at the same time, we understand they're interconnected.
Connected now because they're like
so so invaluable that we recognize also that it's important for parents not
(12:23):
just to learn what are good concepts good principles good strategies but how
do they make use of these so that they'll be able to impact their children,
That's because knowing what they are, it will not be enough.
Parents will need to know, okay, what do I do next, right? Like,
(12:45):
okay, I know that this is a good strategy. This is a good concept, but that's me.
I could have even mastered it. But how do I then translate that to my kids, right? Yeah.
So that's why we think parental engagement cycle. Because through the parental
engagement cycle or the PEC, parents will then be able to make that influence
(13:07):
or impact on their children.
I love it. It's like flexing your PEC, your PEC, your PECs.
And Dr. Ardium, you talk about the three spokes.
Just give us an overview of them really quick. Modeling, elucidation and feedback.
That is correct. So basically, you know, the parental engagement cycle is the
(13:28):
part of the book that speaks about the parental engagement.
So what depends on the parents. And we also have a section of the book that
basically concentrates on what is expected from the students,
what they need to do, what's kind of their job and how to help them do that.
So when speaking about the parental role, we have these three spokes and these
are basically exactly modeling, elucidation and feedback.
(13:50):
And when we say modeling, we mean that,
Parents play a huge role in kids' education and in who they are, basically.
So if we look back into history, I mean, it's basically in every family,
but it's especially pronounced in famous people.
Let's say Albert Einstein, right? World famous physician, right?
(14:14):
But his father, Hermann Einstein, was an engineer and he kind of instilled this
love for science in his son. He kind of showed him how magnetism works, how compasses work.
And in a lot of ways, thanks to him, Albert Einstein was who he was.
Or let's say we take Marie Curie Sklodowska, the famous researcher who worked
(14:40):
on radioactivity, right?
Her parents were also teachers, and her father was teaching mathematics and physics, right?
And we can move on and on and on. So parents do play a big role in students' lives.
And therefore, we say modeling is one big aspect of, you know,
of the parental role as parents.
(15:02):
And yeah, all the strategies, all the, you know, philosophies that we speak
about in the book, they have to be mastered by parents, right?
That's their role to show on their example, how things are, how they should
be. That is really, you're sparking a thought in my mind when you say that.
It's like modeling for your kids.
(15:24):
You can be a physician and raise an engineer.
You can be a farmer and raise a physician.
You could be a contractor or a construction worker and raise an architect.
I mean, it's that idea that you're keeping your kids curious,
showing them how to do things, modeling that for them and helping them gain
(15:47):
some interest or piquing their curiosity. Talk about elucidation a little bit. Yeah.
Right. So the next point is elucidation is an art of making things clear.
So it's an ability to take a complex matter and to decompose it into its constituents.
You know, speaking about bears, for instance, explaining a child what are the
(16:10):
bears, where they live and if
they're dangerous for humans or not and why and at what time of the year.
And taking the time to speak with their children and to explain complicated matters.
So this is, on the one thing, it's better for learning.
Of course, the better they kind
of understand whatever concepts you speak about, the better they learn.
(16:34):
But later on, they'll be using the same elucidation principles trying to explain
things to themselves, right?
So they learn, it's part of modeling again. so the
model the way parents can elucidate complex
matters to you know learn themselves better
so that's the elucidation part and and just real quick dr wallace were you going
(16:57):
to say something before i think i sparked a thought from you as well oh you
sparked a thought from your spark thought because we could do this all day yes.
When I was taking my PhD, my professor asked me, so Wallace,
what's the background of your parents?
(17:17):
Because from her experience, most who take their PhDs have parents who are also into education.
So I shared with her that, oh, my father, both are business people,
entrepreneurs and involved in micro enterprises.
But what's interesting probably, and I say with pride, is that my father actually
(17:42):
finished first grade and learned to read on his own.
And my mother finished second year high school.
But what I remembered was growing up, every summer, my mom would always excite
me and my sibling with summer activities.
Like, oh, what are we going to learn this summer? so
(18:04):
we would do all sorts of things some that i didn't enjoy as enjoy as much but
i realized that oh okay i'm not really cut out to be a professional musician
or a professional dancer that's not going to be my career but or it's not going
to be a hobby for me but i but i learned that oh i i.
(18:24):
Grew to love other aspects like i got involved in public speaking communication
Communication, writing.
So these are like some of the things that I enjoy.
Some sports. I got into bowling, swimming.
So it was the summer exposure and especially my mother's love for learning that rubbed off on us.
(18:50):
So when you shared about having a construction worker suddenly inspiring their
kids to do something like a different kind of career,
That's definitely a huge part of parents impacting their children due to modeling.
Yeah, so good. And I just think of so many people who learn differently and different than the,
(19:16):
you know, structured school setting where maybe their grades won't reflect their
learning ability because the style of teaching doesn't doesn't fit them,
you know, doesn't suit them.
They still make it through most of the time.
They'll make it through, they'll graduate, but then, man, do they soar when
they're outside of the typical classroom structure and they're able to explore
(19:41):
and learn and focus on the things that they're curious about or have interest in.
So, yeah, your book covers all of this stuff, you guys.
Let's quickly get through the third leg of the PEC, of the parental engagement
cycle, and that is feedback.
So, Artyom, can you talk a little bit about that one? Right.
So feedback is a big part of a child's upbringing because parents have to provide
(20:06):
feedback about their behavior, about their learning, about their behavior with
parents, with other kids, with their siblings.
It's a lot of feedback. And given that, it's a very important aspect of their upbringing.
And we dedicate the third leg of the parental engagement cycle to feedback.
And here probably it's important to say about the power of words.
(20:30):
I was just going to ask you to say that because that flows so nicely into the
importance of words and the power of words and how we say what we say to our kids, right? Yeah.
Exactly. When we speak in the context of feedback, let's say,
right, so we write that feedback should be, for instance, should be specific and descriptive.
(20:52):
For instance, if your child did something well, instead of saying just good
job, one should try to be more specific, like what exactly was well.
Well for instance like i noticed you shared your
toys with your friends you're very kind of you so you're
speaking more specific addressing that particular trait
that you find positive right so you're you're
(21:14):
you're praising that particularly something that you cannot argue against right
something that is that's a fact yes it's exactly step three of my no problem
parenting where i teach the difference between unconditional praise and conditional
praise conditional meaning factual It's exactly what you guys are promoting and talking about.
And I have the research behind, right? The importance of that.
(21:38):
I just, I have the research in my experiences in the 30 years of seeing what
has worked and what hasn't.
It actually does make a difference when you can, instead of just saying good job, or you're nice,
or you have friends, or you're good at something or whatever,
you first put some some conditional factual evidence there that they can cling
(22:00):
on to and know from the inside out that you're right and that it's true.
So maybe a different, you know, aspect of feedback is to be empathic and supportive
still, you know, showing empathy towards its feelings.
And you could say something like, you know, I see you're frustrated.
It's OK to take a break and try again, you know, just being supportive.
(22:21):
And using kind words, it's also sometimes, or like, I'd say,
unfortunately, too frequently, one should use some constructive criticism,
but a criticism should be constructive, right?
And one needs to focus on the behavior of a child, not on, you know, their personality.
For instance, it's better to say not like, you're bad at this,
you're bad at writing, or you're bad at writing essays or taking tests.
(22:45):
You could say, you know, next time, try to organize your thoughts before you
start writing, right? So you see that there is maybe the essay was not as structured.
So you offer a kind way out, like you offer an advice, but still pointing out
that something should have been improved or should be improved next time.
So it's a bit more constructive.
(23:07):
I was very much inspired by Dr. Adam Grant's research with regard to the use of nouns and verbs.
So we like to share about the importance of being able to properly use nouns
and even adjectives and verbs in the way we communicate with our children.
If there's one thing that during this podcast that I would really want parents
(23:28):
to be aware of, it's like our words carry a lot of weight, way more than we can appreciate.
To be a child is a work in progress in the same way that we are.
When it comes to areas for improvement, we should definitely veer away from
using nouns now because we don't
(23:48):
want them to think that they're like that for the rest of their lives.
And for us as parents, let's recognize that our children.
Are works in progress. They will make mistakes, but they're not stuck in this
particular whatever negative state that you think they are in right now.
(24:10):
Yeah, that's so true. It's so true. So let's move on then next.
One of the other things I'm really curious about in your book,
you help parents learn how to help their kids feel motivated from the inside out.
That is correct. So these are basically two primary sources
of motivation so the intrinsic motivation motivation that
comes from the inside so basically when you like the
(24:32):
subject matter when you for instance if you are doing math you
like numbers you like you know working with numbers
and you enjoy it for the sake of doing math not
for the grades not for the praises from teachers or
classmates or parents and the the
we are the extrinsic type of
motivation basically the external that is when
(24:54):
you are doing things because you know you
you get something for this like you get extra play time
or the parents will praise you yeah or
the teacher will kind of say yeah that that's a good student unfortunately
there are times when some some subjects are just not interesting for kids like
you cannot be interested in just everything right so that There would be situations
(25:18):
when you have to learn physics or chemistry or English literature and you're
just not interested in this.
So how can we deal with that? So research shows that you cannot really force
a child to love doing something, right?
But we could create conditions that are making this more likely that they will
(25:40):
eventually like just about anything, right?
So they would find something interesting, something valuable in every subject
that they're trying to learn.
And here, one of the first things that comes as a help would be the utility value.
So if kids know that whatever they're learning is somehow connected to real
(26:02):
life, connected to their future, that's something that they are not just theoretically
learning in school, but can really implement or can see in real life.
That would be really helpful and some
of the things that can help intrinsic motivation happen like
later in time for instance you know connecting to real
life examples but there are some things that
(26:25):
can happen like that that happen before even kids
start you know officially learning in school that would
be for instance you know supporting their curiosity curiosity
right kids are curious is little individuals and
oftentimes parents would be too busy you
know going back to elucidation the ppc right
part and they would not be willing to
(26:48):
invest a lot of time and effort supporting this curiosity they
would not be willing to speak about things while this
curiosity is about intrinsic motivation right so kids are interested in the
world around them so if they see that that parents put their attention and effort
in supporting their curiosity and supporting different aspects of their lives
(27:09):
that could help them later on be interested in various activities,
in various subjects, and find something interesting in any subject.
Oftentimes, kids get interested in different subjects once they get a hand of it.
So it could be challenging at first. And let's say you're learning some formulas in the chemistry.
(27:29):
And then if you're are not really intrinsically motivating, that could be really
challenging at first while you're grasping the basic concepts.
But once you make some progress, once you get good grades or you just understand
how things work and you can link it to real life, at some point you start liking
it because you get a positive reinforcement from learning, right?
(27:50):
So parents would need to be super supportive at this, you know, challenging stage.
Of learning where things are really difficult. And hopefully with time,
the intrinsic motivation would kick in.
Yeah, I love that. And being able to guide your child through that,
validating and empathizing with, I know this is hard. This is something new that you are learning.
(28:11):
It's taxing your brain. It's hard work. It's taking more energy and effort.
And you are a person that strives through or works hard.
Now, I'd like Artif to share his conversation with his son because it's such
a beautiful conversation.
In school, we were at some point preparing our son to take the tests, right?
(28:31):
So tests, like official tests start about in the third grade in Germany.
Reading the literature, you know, working on that book, and we have a chapter on test anxiety.
There are things in test anxiety that you can prepare your kids in advance,
and there are ones that you kind of need to help them while they're taking the test.
So while they're in the stage of test taking and preparing for the test anxiety,
(28:54):
we're We're trying to, you know, tell our son explicitly that the test grades
that he gets do not define our love, you know, for him.
They're not like our relationship, our positive relationship and our love and,
you know, our care does not depend on his grades.
So that he would not feel worried that, you know, getting a bad grade,
(29:17):
for instance, can somehow influence our relationships.
And I think it works. My son is super confident and really relaxed.
I think sometimes I worry more than he does.
That comes with being a parent. Exactly. In a good way, right?
I think it also helps him to be intrinsically motivated to take the test,
(29:38):
to learn, and not to worry about any external factors like, you know,
relationship with the parents.
So I think that is super important, goes back to, you know, the role of a parent
and maybe goes back to modeling. So I think it's all interconnected or as we call it holistic.
That is super good. Well, parents listening today, the book is called Wisest
(30:00):
Learners. It's the parent edition.
It helps students with time management. There's a topic about anxiety management,
how to succeed throughout their school career all the way through college.
But it also really parents focuses on the importance of your parent attitude
towards school and learning and how that's going to affect your kiddos academic progress.
(30:21):
So you guys say that modeling a good Good attitude and hunger for learning is
going to go a long way to support your kiddos' learning habits.
So I'm excited to send people over to your website.
You can find Dr. Ardiam and Dr. Wallace, more information on each of you and
the book at wisestlearners.com and follow them on social media at wisestlearners.
(30:44):
Just remember, parents, that parenting is a journey and it's a journey of highs and lows.
There will be times that we as parents will make mistakes.
And we will feel sorry for what we did or wish we did. And that's part of the process.
It's okay. We keep on doing our best. We keep on learning.
(31:04):
But we never give up. So I'd like to encourage parents that during these highs
and lows, as long as we have this attitude of learning, we'll continue to be better.
And that in the long run, down the road, our children will appreciate and understand
the things that we have done and are doing for them.
(31:25):
You know, parenting is a difficult, complex process.
It's a long journey.
And as Dr. Wallace said, it's filled with ups and downs.
But there are many resources that can help us along the way.
And we took our time to, you know, gather what we thought was important in our book.
(31:45):
I hope our book would be helpful to all the parents out there raising voices learners.
All right, that's it for today's episode of the No Problem Parenting Podcast.
Hey, thanks guys for tuning in. If you found value in today's episode,
click the subscribe button and share it with other parents who might need a little boost.
Stay connected on our socials by following at No Problem Parents for more parenting
(32:06):
tips and get your free download of the 60 ways to respond to your kids without
losing your cool, go to noproblemeparents.com.
Until next time, remember, your confidence comes from embracing both successes and setbacks.
So take a deep breath, embrace the chaos, and remember, you got this.
Music.
Hey there, parents. Thanks for listening to the No Problem Parenting Podcast.
Are you ready to become the confident leader your kids crave you to be?
Are you losing your crap on your kids, yelling, giving in, and exhausted at the end of every day?
You are already a good parent, and I'm sure you've sought advice from friends
or family. You've read books on your child's specific behavior problem.
(00:20):
Maybe you've even signed them up to see the school counselor or an outpatient therapist.
But despite your efforts to find the right person or thing that will help,
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(00:42):
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(01:03):
Welcome to the No Problem Parenting podcast. From toddler tantrums to teenage eye rolls,
this podcast is your go-to for updated and old school tips and tools that are
going to help you become the confident leader your kids crave you to be.
Do you ever wish there was a specific manual that came with each one of your kids?
(01:23):
I mean, what works for one often doesn't work for the other, right?
And let's face it, we don't know what we don't know.
And even if there was a manual, it probably wouldn't be able to keep up with
all the changes in our world.
Well, this podcast is the next best thing. I'm your host, Jackie Finneman,
a 30-year counselor turned parenting coach, and I've got a lot to share,
including hundreds of resources that you have access to right from your home
(01:48):
and strategies that are going to boost your confidence and energize you.
So whether you're knee deep in diapers or navigating the tween years,
or you're launching your child into adulthood, subscribe and share this podcast
with your friends, teachers, and daycare providers.
We're going to turn your parenting problems into no problem one episode at a time.
(02:10):
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(02:57):
Welcome back, No Problem Parents, to the No Problem Parenting podcast,
where we choose to deal with and overcome the emotional, the behavioral,
year old, the challenges within our home, raising kids.
And today I've brought on two authors of a new book called Wisest Learners.
This is the parent edition for unlocking the secrets to your child's academic success.
(03:18):
Welcome to the show, Dr. Ardium and Dr. Wallace.
Thanks for having us here today.
Jackie, thank you so much for this opportunity to share about our book.
I really want to jump right into the book because you guys have put so much
research and education into this book for parents.
So Dr. Wallace, share a little bit about how you and Dr. Artyom came together to write the book.
(03:43):
So I was a school administrator for about 14 years.
And during the time that I was managing school, I saw the need for students
to be able to learn how to be effective learners.
Most of the time, school would teach the what or even why. Why?
(04:03):
But most of the time to teach about study skills or being able to be effective
or optimal learners, that's kind of like glossed over.
And I would understand because schools have a lot of pressure to cover a lot
of ground when it comes to the curricula.
So I decided to take up my PhD in educational psychology to go deep into this issue.
(04:29):
And during the time when I was taking up my PhD, I encountered a lot of amazing research study,
like amazing, like, wow, this will be so good for my parents,
my teachers, my students.
The only thing is that they're not known to the public. They're like bottled
(04:51):
up in this secret bottle.
Like where only the researchers know about it, right? I think Dr.
Ardium and I were We're talking about that previously. Yeah.
And because these are so important, but people have to pay, right? Yeah.
There's a paywall that would prevent the average Joe from being able to access those.
(05:11):
And not only that, these research studies are quite technical as well.
So you need to have some technical background to be able to fully understand.
And I thought that, oh, this needs to be brought out to the public.
At around the same time, that's when I met Dr. Artyom.
That's right. So basically, I'm a father of two and my older son is now 10 years
(05:35):
old. And a few years back, he started school.
And then that's when, you know, all
the, you know, difficulties to school adaptation, to learning happened.
And we struggled a lot. And I then approached Dr. Wallace, you know,
headmaster back then for 14 years, asking for his advices on what should I do?
What would be the best strategies for me to deal with school issues?
(05:56):
And, you know, how to help my son learn better and adapt better.
And Dr. Wallace said, well, you're a cognitive neuroscientist.
Why don't you approach it, you know, scientifically?
Why don't you, you know, see what the literature says, what,
you know, the science says about this?
And yeah, we started exploring research studies together, just exploring what's
the best way to learn, you know, what's the way to adapt to school and so on.
(06:20):
And interestingly, as Dr. Wallace also mentioned, sometimes I would be saying,
oh, check it out, this paper. and then I would send the title over.
But Dr. Wallace wouldn't have access because he's not at a university that has
a subscription to these research studies.
And I would then have to send PDFs over for him to read it.
And we thought, wow, I mean, there is a big amount of knowledge that is not
(06:42):
readily available to everyone.
And now we could use our expertise in educational psychology and the company
of neuroscience to basically translate this all research into a common language.
And we would be able to share with just everyone, all the parents who are out
there struggling as I was, so that that could help their kids as well.
(07:02):
So that's how the idea came to share what we've learned.
Well, that's amazing. And what's your son's name?
He's Alexander. I think we all have Alexander to thank for this then,
because it's because of him that brought the two of you together. So that is amazing.
He's already served a great purpose on this world.
(07:24):
Alexander, kudos to you. There's so much in this book.
I think we could do several episodes of the podcast just sharing everything.
Thing. But of course, we want people to go out and grab the book.
Who is the ideal reader for this book?
The ideal reader in this book is a parent who is very much concerned in their
child's lives, particularly when it pertains to their academic success,
(07:49):
wanting to optimize the potential of their children.
So the kind of parent that would be so heavily involved would be very ideal.
Someone that's like, okay, I'm concerned, I'm engaged, I want to make the most
out of whatever is available.
And this can be a very, very busy parent having triple jobs.
(08:11):
That's the kind of parent that we have. In reading it, I see it as if you're
a parent out there, you have really high standards, academic standards for your kids.
Education is a priority and college education, and that's really important to you as a parent,
this book, I think, helps you kind of get that in check while still guiding
(08:33):
your child that intrinsic learning, which we're going to talk about in a little
bit, but really be interested in it.
Rather than you feeling like the parent who always needs to harp on your child
to do well and to succeed, you guys are really laying out some great ideas here
that are going to help you have high standards for your kid while at the same
time supporting your child.
(08:53):
That's true. That's true. That's a very good point. And then we do make a lot
of emphasis on academic success or educational attainment.
But one of the qualities of WISIS learner that we describe is a lifelong learner.
So someone who is going to study well in school and then in college and that's
it. it, but this is someone who is able to learn lifelong, who has the skills, mindset, beliefs.
(09:20):
Everything set to learn, you know, intuitively to learn as a second nature.
And we're speaking with Dr. Wallace that, you know, my mom, for instance,
she used to work in the same bank for almost all her life.
Like it was one job she did all her life. And then one position just did it
well, hard work, but the same thing again and again and again.
(09:42):
But nowadays, you know, development of the the artificial intelligence,
you know, changing jobs, changing industries.
One is forced to learn a new almost every few years.
A lot of my friends like in IT, in media, in many other fields,
it's like a mandatory thing to change a job every three years.
(10:03):
And if you stay in one position for over three years, sometimes your resume
will not even be looked at.
You're staying there for too long. You need to develop. You need to progress. constantly.
So this is sort of the environment we would like to prepare kids for.
So an environment where people have to learn constantly. And that's one of the
(10:25):
definitions of WISIS learners.
Love that. Absolutely love that. I'm glad you point that out too,
because it's not just about academic learning.
And I love that you say it's like the lifelong, just that interest and passion
for always being curious and always wanting to ask why or to learn more,
which the parents listening today who have a child right now that's always saying, why, why, why?
(10:47):
I know that gets annoying, but that is a signal that that kiddo is a lifelong
learner already, just naturally.
So I think that's awesome. Awesome. Well, as we begin here, I think one of the
key things that you set the stage for this book is helping parents to learn
what their role is in their child's learning process.
And so you have developed a three-step sort of model called the parental engagement cycle.
(11:12):
Can you tell us a little bit more about that, Dr. Wallace? Jackie,
one of the critical aspects of the book is that if I were to,
if we were to, let's say, differentiate it from other books, our book is holistic.
So what it means is that it has, it's like, if I were to use an analogy,
(11:36):
it's like, instead of just having a single vitamin, like, you know,
like vitamin A is important, vitamin B is important.
So you have, you can read, let's say, other books and you'll have of like a
vitamin A or vitamin B or a vitamin C or a vitamin D.
But how we came up with it is that we have a multivitamin because every single
(11:56):
thing is like, so every vitamin is so important, every supplement,
you know, like these are important.
And we put it together in such a way that we recognize the value of each one.
And at the same time, we understand they're interconnected.
Connected now because they're like
so so invaluable that we recognize also that it's important for parents not
(12:23):
just to learn what are good concepts good principles good strategies but how
do they make use of these so that they'll be able to impact their children,
That's because knowing what they are, it will not be enough.
Parents will need to know, okay, what do I do next, right? Like,
(12:45):
okay, I know that this is a good strategy. This is a good concept, but that's me.
I could have even mastered it. But how do I then translate that to my kids, right? Yeah.
So that's why we think parental engagement cycle. Because through the parental
engagement cycle or the PEC, parents will then be able to make that influence
(13:07):
or impact on their children.
I love it. It's like flexing your PEC, your PEC, your PECs.
And Dr. Ardium, you talk about the three spokes.
Just give us an overview of them really quick. Modeling, elucidation and feedback.
That is correct. So basically, you know, the parental engagement cycle is the
(13:28):
part of the book that speaks about the parental engagement.
So what depends on the parents. And we also have a section of the book that
basically concentrates on what is expected from the students,
what they need to do, what's kind of their job and how to help them do that.
So when speaking about the parental role, we have these three spokes and these
are basically exactly modeling, elucidation and feedback.
(13:50):
And when we say modeling, we mean that,
Parents play a huge role in kids' education and in who they are, basically.
So if we look back into history, I mean, it's basically in every family,
but it's especially pronounced in famous people.
Let's say Albert Einstein, right? World famous physician, right?
(14:14):
But his father, Hermann Einstein, was an engineer and he kind of instilled this
love for science in his son. He kind of showed him how magnetism works, how compasses work.
And in a lot of ways, thanks to him, Albert Einstein was who he was.
Or let's say we take Marie Curie Sklodowska, the famous researcher who worked
(14:40):
on radioactivity, right?
Her parents were also teachers, and her father was teaching mathematics and physics, right?
And we can move on and on and on. So parents do play a big role in students' lives.
And therefore, we say modeling is one big aspect of, you know,
of the parental role as parents.
(15:02):
And yeah, all the strategies, all the, you know, philosophies that we speak
about in the book, they have to be mastered by parents, right?
That's their role to show on their example, how things are, how they should
be. That is really, you're sparking a thought in my mind when you say that.
It's like modeling for your kids.
(15:24):
You can be a physician and raise an engineer.
You can be a farmer and raise a physician.
You could be a contractor or a construction worker and raise an architect.
I mean, it's that idea that you're keeping your kids curious,
showing them how to do things, modeling that for them and helping them gain
(15:47):
some interest or piquing their curiosity. Talk about elucidation a little bit. Yeah.
Right. So the next point is elucidation is an art of making things clear.
So it's an ability to take a complex matter and to decompose it into its constituents.
You know, speaking about bears, for instance, explaining a child what are the
(16:10):
bears, where they live and if
they're dangerous for humans or not and why and at what time of the year.
And taking the time to speak with their children and to explain complicated matters.
So this is, on the one thing, it's better for learning.
Of course, the better they kind
of understand whatever concepts you speak about, the better they learn.
(16:34):
But later on, they'll be using the same elucidation principles trying to explain
things to themselves, right?
So they learn, it's part of modeling again. so the
model the way parents can elucidate complex
matters to you know learn themselves better
so that's the elucidation part and and just real quick dr wallace were you going
(16:57):
to say something before i think i sparked a thought from you as well oh you
sparked a thought from your spark thought because we could do this all day yes.
When I was taking my PhD, my professor asked me, so Wallace,
what's the background of your parents?
(17:17):
Because from her experience, most who take their PhDs have parents who are also into education.
So I shared with her that, oh, my father, both are business people,
entrepreneurs and involved in micro enterprises.
But what's interesting probably, and I say with pride, is that my father actually
(17:42):
finished first grade and learned to read on his own.
And my mother finished second year high school.
But what I remembered was growing up, every summer, my mom would always excite
me and my sibling with summer activities.
Like, oh, what are we going to learn this summer? so
(18:04):
we would do all sorts of things some that i didn't enjoy as enjoy as much but
i realized that oh okay i'm not really cut out to be a professional musician
or a professional dancer that's not going to be my career but or it's not going
to be a hobby for me but i but i learned that oh i i.
(18:24):
Grew to love other aspects like i got involved in public speaking communication
Communication, writing.
So these are like some of the things that I enjoy.
Some sports. I got into bowling, swimming.
So it was the summer exposure and especially my mother's love for learning that rubbed off on us.
(18:50):
So when you shared about having a construction worker suddenly inspiring their
kids to do something like a different kind of career,
That's definitely a huge part of parents impacting their children due to modeling.
Yeah, so good. And I just think of so many people who learn differently and different than the,
(19:16):
you know, structured school setting where maybe their grades won't reflect their
learning ability because the style of teaching doesn't doesn't fit them,
you know, doesn't suit them.
They still make it through most of the time.
They'll make it through, they'll graduate, but then, man, do they soar when
they're outside of the typical classroom structure and they're able to explore
(19:41):
and learn and focus on the things that they're curious about or have interest in.
So, yeah, your book covers all of this stuff, you guys.
Let's quickly get through the third leg of the PEC, of the parental engagement
cycle, and that is feedback.
So, Artyom, can you talk a little bit about that one? Right.
So feedback is a big part of a child's upbringing because parents have to provide
(20:06):
feedback about their behavior, about their learning, about their behavior with
parents, with other kids, with their siblings.
It's a lot of feedback. And given that, it's a very important aspect of their upbringing.
And we dedicate the third leg of the parental engagement cycle to feedback.
And here probably it's important to say about the power of words.
(20:30):
I was just going to ask you to say that because that flows so nicely into the
importance of words and the power of words and how we say what we say to our kids, right? Yeah.
Exactly. When we speak in the context of feedback, let's say,
right, so we write that feedback should be, for instance, should be specific and descriptive.
(20:52):
For instance, if your child did something well, instead of saying just good
job, one should try to be more specific, like what exactly was well.
Well for instance like i noticed you shared your
toys with your friends you're very kind of you so you're
speaking more specific addressing that particular trait
that you find positive right so you're you're
(21:14):
you're praising that particularly something that you cannot argue against right
something that is that's a fact yes it's exactly step three of my no problem
parenting where i teach the difference between unconditional praise and conditional
praise conditional meaning factual It's exactly what you guys are promoting and talking about.
And I have the research behind, right? The importance of that.
(21:38):
I just, I have the research in my experiences in the 30 years of seeing what
has worked and what hasn't.
It actually does make a difference when you can, instead of just saying good job, or you're nice,
or you have friends, or you're good at something or whatever,
you first put some some conditional factual evidence there that they can cling
(22:00):
on to and know from the inside out that you're right and that it's true.
So maybe a different, you know, aspect of feedback is to be empathic and supportive
still, you know, showing empathy towards its feelings.
And you could say something like, you know, I see you're frustrated.
It's OK to take a break and try again, you know, just being supportive.
(22:21):
And using kind words, it's also sometimes, or like, I'd say,
unfortunately, too frequently, one should use some constructive criticism,
but a criticism should be constructive, right?
And one needs to focus on the behavior of a child, not on, you know, their personality.
For instance, it's better to say not like, you're bad at this,
you're bad at writing, or you're bad at writing essays or taking tests.
(22:45):
You could say, you know, next time, try to organize your thoughts before you
start writing, right? So you see that there is maybe the essay was not as structured.
So you offer a kind way out, like you offer an advice, but still pointing out
that something should have been improved or should be improved next time.
So it's a bit more constructive.
(23:07):
I was very much inspired by Dr. Adam Grant's research with regard to the use of nouns and verbs.
So we like to share about the importance of being able to properly use nouns
and even adjectives and verbs in the way we communicate with our children.
If there's one thing that during this podcast that I would really want parents
(23:28):
to be aware of, it's like our words carry a lot of weight, way more than we can appreciate.
To be a child is a work in progress in the same way that we are.
When it comes to areas for improvement, we should definitely veer away from
using nouns now because we don't
(23:48):
want them to think that they're like that for the rest of their lives.
And for us as parents, let's recognize that our children.
Are works in progress. They will make mistakes, but they're not stuck in this
particular whatever negative state that you think they are in right now.
(24:10):
Yeah, that's so true. It's so true. So let's move on then next.
One of the other things I'm really curious about in your book,
you help parents learn how to help their kids feel motivated from the inside out.
That is correct. So these are basically two primary sources
of motivation so the intrinsic motivation motivation that
comes from the inside so basically when you like the
(24:32):
subject matter when you for instance if you are doing math you
like numbers you like you know working with numbers
and you enjoy it for the sake of doing math not
for the grades not for the praises from teachers or
classmates or parents and the the
we are the extrinsic type of
motivation basically the external that is when
(24:54):
you are doing things because you know you
you get something for this like you get extra play time
or the parents will praise you yeah or
the teacher will kind of say yeah that that's a good student unfortunately
there are times when some some subjects are just not interesting for kids like
you cannot be interested in just everything right so that There would be situations
(25:18):
when you have to learn physics or chemistry or English literature and you're
just not interested in this.
So how can we deal with that? So research shows that you cannot really force
a child to love doing something, right?
But we could create conditions that are making this more likely that they will
(25:40):
eventually like just about anything, right?
So they would find something interesting, something valuable in every subject
that they're trying to learn.
And here, one of the first things that comes as a help would be the utility value.
So if kids know that whatever they're learning is somehow connected to real
(26:02):
life, connected to their future, that's something that they are not just theoretically
learning in school, but can really implement or can see in real life.
That would be really helpful and some
of the things that can help intrinsic motivation happen like
later in time for instance you know connecting to real
life examples but there are some things that
(26:25):
can happen like that that happen before even kids
start you know officially learning in school that would
be for instance you know supporting their curiosity curiosity
right kids are curious is little individuals and
oftentimes parents would be too busy you
know going back to elucidation the ppc right
part and they would not be willing to
(26:48):
invest a lot of time and effort supporting this curiosity they
would not be willing to speak about things while this
curiosity is about intrinsic motivation right so kids are interested in the
world around them so if they see that that parents put their attention and effort
in supporting their curiosity and supporting different aspects of their lives
(27:09):
that could help them later on be interested in various activities,
in various subjects, and find something interesting in any subject.
Oftentimes, kids get interested in different subjects once they get a hand of it.
So it could be challenging at first. And let's say you're learning some formulas in the chemistry.
(27:29):
And then if you're are not really intrinsically motivating, that could be really
challenging at first while you're grasping the basic concepts.
But once you make some progress, once you get good grades or you just understand
how things work and you can link it to real life, at some point you start liking
it because you get a positive reinforcement from learning, right?
(27:50):
So parents would need to be super supportive at this, you know, challenging stage.
Of learning where things are really difficult. And hopefully with time,
the intrinsic motivation would kick in.
Yeah, I love that. And being able to guide your child through that,
validating and empathizing with, I know this is hard. This is something new that you are learning.
(28:11):
It's taxing your brain. It's hard work. It's taking more energy and effort.
And you are a person that strives through or works hard.
Now, I'd like Artif to share his conversation with his son because it's such
a beautiful conversation.
In school, we were at some point preparing our son to take the tests, right?
(28:31):
So tests, like official tests start about in the third grade in Germany.
Reading the literature, you know, working on that book, and we have a chapter on test anxiety.
There are things in test anxiety that you can prepare your kids in advance,
and there are ones that you kind of need to help them while they're taking the test.
So while they're in the stage of test taking and preparing for the test anxiety,
(28:54):
we're We're trying to, you know, tell our son explicitly that the test grades
that he gets do not define our love, you know, for him.
They're not like our relationship, our positive relationship and our love and,
you know, our care does not depend on his grades.
So that he would not feel worried that, you know, getting a bad grade,
(29:17):
for instance, can somehow influence our relationships.
And I think it works. My son is super confident and really relaxed.
I think sometimes I worry more than he does.
That comes with being a parent. Exactly. In a good way, right?
I think it also helps him to be intrinsically motivated to take the test,
(29:38):
to learn, and not to worry about any external factors like, you know,
relationship with the parents.
So I think that is super important, goes back to, you know, the role of a parent
and maybe goes back to modeling. So I think it's all interconnected or as we call it holistic.
That is super good. Well, parents listening today, the book is called Wisest
(30:00):
Learners. It's the parent edition.
It helps students with time management. There's a topic about anxiety management,
how to succeed throughout their school career all the way through college.
But it also really parents focuses on the importance of your parent attitude
towards school and learning and how that's going to affect your kiddos academic progress.
(30:21):
So you guys say that modeling a good Good attitude and hunger for learning is
going to go a long way to support your kiddos' learning habits.
So I'm excited to send people over to your website.
You can find Dr. Ardiam and Dr. Wallace, more information on each of you and
the book at wisestlearners.com and follow them on social media at wisestlearners.
(30:44):
Just remember, parents, that parenting is a journey and it's a journey of highs and lows.
There will be times that we as parents will make mistakes.
And we will feel sorry for what we did or wish we did. And that's part of the process.
It's okay. We keep on doing our best. We keep on learning.
(31:04):
But we never give up. So I'd like to encourage parents that during these highs
and lows, as long as we have this attitude of learning, we'll continue to be better.
And that in the long run, down the road, our children will appreciate and understand
the things that we have done and are doing for them.
(31:25):
You know, parenting is a difficult, complex process.
It's a long journey.
And as Dr. Wallace said, it's filled with ups and downs.
But there are many resources that can help us along the way.
And we took our time to, you know, gather what we thought was important in our book.
(31:45):
I hope our book would be helpful to all the parents out there raising voices learners.
All right, that's it for today's episode of the No Problem Parenting Podcast.
Hey, thanks guys for tuning in. If you found value in today's episode,
click the subscribe button and share it with other parents who might need a little boost.
Stay connected on our socials by following at No Problem Parents for more parenting
(32:06):
tips and get your free download of the 60 ways to respond to your kids without
losing your cool, go to noproblemeparents.com.
Until next time, remember, your confidence comes from embracing both successes and setbacks.
So take a deep breath, embrace the chaos, and remember, you got this.
Music.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.