November 17, 2025 • 53 mins
Growing up as a pastor’s kid and a standout athlete gave Gwyn a strong sense of identity...or at least it seemed that way. But once she left for college, the structure she’d relied on fell away, creating space for secrecy, fear, and choices she never imagined facing, including sexual compromise and the consideration of abortion.
We talk candidly about the gap between cultural Christianity and genuine discipleship, the isolation that drives hidden decisions, and how easy it is to drift into serious territory without anyone noticing. Everything shifted for Gwyn when a stranger speaks a truth no one else had dared to say, confronting Gwyn’s assumptions and pushing her to reexamine responsibility, identity, and the path she was on.
This conversation is honest, grounded, and shaped by grace. It’s about being interrupted by truth, choosing integrity over image, and discovering conviction when the stakes are high.
Please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help improve No Sanity Required and help others grow in their faith.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_04 (00:00):
Hey everybody, welcome back to this week's
episode of NSR.
I am so, so, so, so excited foryou guys to hear this episode.
Um, we interviewed a young ladynamed Gwen.
Um, she used to come as a youngkid um with a church that
Snorbert has been partneringwith for a long time.
So we got to kind of talk aboutyou know her old memories from
(00:22):
camp.
That was really fun.
And then um she just dives rightin and shares her story, and it
is just so crazy to hear herstory, and she is so well
spoken.
And yeah, I'm really excited foryou guys to hear her story.
Uh, this will also be atwo-parter, uh, so be looking
out for the second part.
Uh, you guys will not want tomiss that one either.
(00:44):
Um, but yeah, I hope I reallyhope you guys have been enjoying
all of this interview content.
I've received a lot of me andBertie both have received a lot
of really encouraging feedback.
Um, it's really cool that we getto interview all these people,
and I'm so grateful for that.
Um, but yeah, thank you guys somuch for tuning in.
I hope you guys enjoy thisepisode, and I just wanted to
(01:06):
give a few announcements, Iguess.
We are gearing up for our winterretreats and our winter swes,
which are just a blast, superfun.
It's almost like a week ofsummer packed into three or four
days.
Um, but if you guys areinterested, I think we have a
few spots left for our secondwinter swow.
(01:28):
So winter swow two.
If you guys are interested, Iwill drop the link in the
description below.
Definitely go check that out.
Spots do fly like crazy, but Ido know we have a few spots
left.
So if you're interested,definitely go sign up.
You're not gonna want to missthat.
Um, but yeah, super excited forall the things that we've been
preparing for.
(01:48):
Uh, skits and just teaching andeverything like that.
It's awesome.
It's gonna be great.
I hope you guys enjoy thisweek's episode.
And welcome to No SanityRequired.
SPEAKER_00 (02:06):
Welcome to No Sanity Required from the Ministry of
Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters,a podcast about the Bible,
culture, and stories from aroundthe globe.
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Well, we're gonna have a conversation with Gwen,
Gwen Andrews.
So we'll just jump right intoit.
Thanks for coming.
I know it's a big deal.
What's it like three hours?
SPEAKER_03 (02:26):
335 on the door.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (02:29):
That's it's a big deal to me that you would drive
up here to do this.
So I just I want to start bysaying that I really appreciate
it.
And I know the people that aregonna listen to this are gonna
appreciate it.
Um that's a two-day thing.
That's you know, three and ahalf hours to to do this, it's
not like up, do it, back.
I mean, so it's a big deal, andso I'm trusting the Lord to use
(02:51):
your story.
I know he's going to.
I kind of haven't been able toget over your story, you know,
since we talked a month ago.
Um and I should probably prefacethat by saying, I've known you
your whole life, but your story,you kind of went off my radar
for a while.
I think how old the last timeyou came to Snowbird as a
(03:13):
student, I was ninth grade.
SPEAKER_03 (03:14):
Tenth grade, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
Tenth grade.
SPEAKER_03 (03:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
And so then you just disappeared and I didn't see you
anymore.
And I knew you were you're ahooper, and I knew you were like
pursuing that, chasing thatdream, and I was kind of keeping
up with that through some mutualfriends, um co-pastors with your
dad.
And so I was keeping up with it,and then you know, just out of
(03:38):
sight, out of mind, then I andthen you so then uh when
Southside was here, Labor Dayweekend for a retreat, Gwen
comes walking up to me, like Iwas like, I it took me a minute,
could you tell?
Yeah.
I was like, I know wait, I knowthis person, but I mean I know
tenth grade you.
SPEAKER_03 (03:56):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:57):
Right.
And the last time I remembertalking to you, you were
probably in the ninth grade, andwe had a conversation at
Snowbird and it was real brief.
And but then kind of the memoryin my mind of you is like
10-year-old you.
SPEAKER_02 (04:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:15):
So when you walked up to me, I was like, wait, are
you are you and it took me aminute, but then I was like, no
way.
So we ended up uh sitting down.
Gwen actually said, I want tosit down and just tell you my
testimony.
SPEAKER_02 (04:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:28):
And so all those years that I did not know what
was going on, a lot was goingon.
SPEAKER_02 (04:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:33):
And you have lived a crazy no sanity story.
Um and so I asked you to comeback, and here you are.
So it means a lot.
Um really big deal to us thatyou would do this and our the
folks that listen to this andwatch this.
So um let's let's start off.
Uh, let's just do some funstuff.
Okay.
(04:54):
So do you remember, can youremember the first time that you
came to Snowbird?
SPEAKER_03 (05:01):
I have, I think a lot of my memories blended
together because I did the samething every time I came here.
I do remember specifically beingin love with the skate ramp.
Um it was huge because I waslittle.
I don't I couldn't put it into adepth perception now, but there
was one time where all the highschoolers were sliding down the
skate ramp, and I was like, Ijust wanted so desperately to be
(05:23):
involved with the snowbirdleaders.
I was 10, but that was just, youknow, I'm sure all the little
kids do that.
So I go up there and I'm like,I'm gonna be really cool and I'm
gonna slide down this skateramp.
All of them are on their skates,they'll probably like come up
and talk to me after this.
So I sit on my butt, I'm inthese sweatpants, a t-shirt.
My mom is who knows where, myfamily's just around.
I slide down and I'm like, Ifeel this nick in my leg.
(05:46):
And one of the screws was up andit had nipped my butt all the
way down my leg, and mysweatpants were torn and I was
just bleeding.
And I was like, I don't, what doI don't know any of these
leaders?
I don't know where Bertie andLittle are.
I don't know where my parentsare.
And so I ran and I ran up tothis old lady.
I don't I could I don't evenknow who she was, and I was
like, hey, I ripped my pants.
(06:06):
Can you help me?
So then I had to go get atetanus shot, and then I she
like glued my leg together, andI was like mortified, not
because I had gotten hurt, butbecause I was around a bunch of
teenagers who had cool outfitson and my pants were ripped.
That's what I was worried about,was that my pants were my mom's
like, everybody has rippedpants, it's okay, like it's in.
And I was like, No, but mine'son the back, not the front.
(06:27):
Like they're gonna think I'mweird.
And it's true.
So yeah, even from a little age,clearly I was very image
conscious and worried about whatothers were thinking about me.
But the skate ramp was a big,big memory for me, the foam pit.
SPEAKER_01 (06:39):
Um I you were rough and tumble, like you fit in good
here.
SPEAKER_03 (06:43):
Absolutely, yeah.
Playing basketball, that was alot of fun.
SPEAKER_01 (06:45):
So you're a tomboy.
Um Laylee cut her hand on one ofthose.
Eventually, we that's part ofwhy we tore that thing down.
It just got too what it was, thethe covering on that skate park
was sheet metal.
And we would we would grind andsand and weld and keep
everything smooth, those screwswould back out.
Laylee hit did the same thingand it ripped, I mean it gnarly
(07:09):
ripped her finger.
She was probably six.
And I remember working takingher up to the coop and working
on it, and she was always atough kid, you know.
So she usually she did not wantto cry.
She would do everything, she didnot want to cry.
Um, that's funny.
I didn't I don't remember that.
That's so crazy.
Yeah, but what a memory thatskate park and the foam pit were
(07:30):
fixtures at Snowbird for 20years.
Yep.
That's crazy.
Because I don't know.
Was it skatepark here when youstarted coming?
SPEAKER_04 (07:38):
Yeah, like my first year, skate park and foam pit.
Actually, I think I came firstat a at a winter swell and the
skate park was there.
Came back in the summer, it wasgone, but foam pit was still
there.
Okay.
Came back again and foam pit wasgone.
SPEAKER_01 (07:51):
Yeah, the skate park's probably been gone eight
or ten years now.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (07:54):
My first year was either like 2014 or 2015.
Okay.
That sounds right.
SPEAKER_01 (07:58):
Yeah.
Dang, that's crazy.
And then I remember you wouldcome before you were old enough
to attend with students becauseyour your mom's sister worked on
staff, so you had a familyconnection, your church was
coming, so y'all would just allcome up.
SPEAKER_02 (08:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:15):
Do you remember?
Did we ever go?
I don't know if you would havegone with us.
We would go, Josh and DanielleRay and a group of us, I'm
getting sidetracked here, but wewould go to the fall festival at
the John C.
Campbell Folk School, and abunch of Southside people would
go to each other.
SPEAKER_03 (08:29):
Oh, I'm probably very sure I went.
Like, I remember going toy'all's house.
I remember little taking me intoa gas station and getting me a
chocolate mill.
Like I looking back, I didn'trealize how intertwined we were.
And so I think that's why it wasso important for me to come up
to you later on, like lastmonth.
But yeah, I have so manymemories here that looking back,
I'm like, man, Snowbird reallydid play a big part in my
(08:50):
childhood.
Yeah, yeah.
That's so cool.
SPEAKER_01 (08:53):
It is.
So you get to, and we'll seeLittle at lunch today, still and
caught up with her.
Um, so um get into high school,the main thing then the shift is
you're just you're you'rehooping.
You're trying your goal was togo play college ball.
Um you're a pastor's kid, bigchurch, spotlights on you.
SPEAKER_02 (09:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
Everybody knew you could hoop.
There's a lot of pressure.
SPEAKER_03 (09:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
But you're also kind of an alpha personality.
You got that dog in you.
SPEAKER_03 (09:23):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (09:24):
So just walk us, let's let's start like get into
high school, because that lasttime we would have seen you
before not long ago was when youwere a sophomore in high school.
So what was high school like?
And then and then just let'sjust go from there.
SPEAKER_03 (09:38):
Yeah, so I started out at a public school.
I grew up public school my wholelife, and then I realized in my
ninth grade year, I wasn'tgetting enough time on the
court.
And so I wanted to, you know,make a change.
I had been getting in troublewith, you know, friend groups
and boys and stuff like that,typical high school stuff.
So my parents saw an opportunityto move me to a private school.
(10:00):
My dad ended up getting offereda coaching position there.
And so he was like, hey, youknow, you sat me down that
summer.
I think this would be a reallygood transition for you.
You know, kind of pitched it asthis, you'll get a lot of
recognition for this.
It'll be good for your career,basketball career.
And I was like, Yeah, let's doit.
So we transferred to CentralFellowship, me and my brother,
and my sister.
(10:20):
And from the first day that Iwalked in, you know, usually you
would think high school girl,new school, I'm like a ball of
anxiety, I'm nervous.
I was eating it up.
When I tell you, like I wasabsolutely loving it because
they didn't have a lot of peopletransfer in.
It was a smaller school at thetime.
On top of being athletic, beingyoung, being cute, it was just
(10:42):
like I loved it.
And so all eyes were on me,played all the sports I could
get my hands on.
I even started doingcross-country for the heck of
it, which I absolutely hated.
I don't know why I did it.
But yeah, so high school was, Imean, I I loved high school.
I think I always say that thatwas the one of the like best or
most fun times of my life, but alot of it was because I was
(11:03):
living my life in sin while Iwas in high school.
So a lot of my memories werelike adrenaline dopamine
self-fulfilling memories.
Um, but I played basketball in10th grade through 12th grade
there.
I was the seventh leading scorerin the state of Georgia.
I was also the leading scorerfor technical fouls.
I was a very angry girl.
(11:24):
Um, my dad was the coach.
My sister, I got to play with mysister, some of my best friends
transferred in.
And so that became my identityin high school, was just the
athletic basketball girl.
And I kind of rode with that.
I was like, that's fine.
I had came out of a season of mylife where I felt so much
external pressure being apastor's daughter, and it wasn't
(11:44):
anything that anybody put on me.
It was I had created thatnarrative on my own.
And so going into high school,transitioning into not just
being a player on a team, butbeing the player on the team was
like a dream for me.
And I I loved it and just wentwith it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:01):
So when you got to that school, um, you're you're
playing school ball, but you'realso playing club ball or AAU
ball.
And so recruiting starts tohappen and you end up landing on
a spot for college.
SPEAKER_03 (12:16):
Yeah.
So I had a couple differentoffers from smaller schools.
I wasn't really worried aboutthe division, but I was
excelling in high jump as well.
And so I wanted to go to aschool where I could play
basketball in the fall kind ofspring and then go into high
jumping.
So that ultimately led me toTruot McConnell.
I went in, watched a game, kindof clicked with the team.
(12:38):
I liked the coach, and so Icommitted.
And it's that's a funny story inand of itself because when we
sat down with the coach, it wasjust to learn more about the
team and like the program.
And so I sat down and I waslike, Coach, I think I'm ready
to commit to your team.
And my mom and dad were like,because we didn't talk about it.
I just did it.
And so we will we left that thatmeeting, and my parents were
(12:59):
like, Oh, I guess you're goingto true at now.
And I was like, I guess so.
I don't know why I felt a tug togo there.
I just, I was like, this fitseverything that I want,
everything that I see my futurelooking like.
This will get me to my goal.
And so I committed to true atMcConnell.
I um finished out my senior yearbasketball track.
(13:19):
My uh numbers were great.
And the summer before, this islike very pivotal from my story.
The summer before I went to trueat McConnell, I had gotten in
trouble with a guy just beingfoolish.
Um, because growing up, myparents had a rule that we
weren't allowed to date.
And so for some reason, I hadalways pushed back on that.
I don't know why that was such abig marker growing up that I was
(13:42):
like good in every other area,but for some reason not being
allowed to date just did not sitright with me.
And so I was always kind ofmaneuvering and being sneaky and
rebellious and trying to figureout ways of appeasing my parents
while also living in sin.
And so a lot of my convictioncame more from trying not to get
in trouble with my parentsrather than what does the Bible
(14:03):
tell me?
How am I supposed to live?
Um, so I got trouble.
I got in trouble.
My parents, you know, they theywere at their last straw.
So they took away my phone, theythey had me just going to work.
I was working at Chick-fil-A atthe time and I was going to
church.
My parents would drive me to andfrom.
I didn't have any devices.
And my mom was like, at thispoint, we don't know what else
(14:23):
to do.
So we're gonna extracteverything from you and kind of
give you this time to sit downin the quiet and the peace
before you transfer off, andwe're not there anymore.
So the whole summer, you know, Idid good, I behaved, I did what
I was supposed to do.
I worked, I got ready forbasketball, I trained, I played
summer ball, and I asked myparents if I could get
(14:44):
rededicated.
I was 18 at the time.
And, you know, my dad sat downwith me and talked with me.
And I wanted to make a publicstatement to everybody around
me.
There's a lot of periods in mylife where I disappeared from
everybody, and it was eitherbecause I was in trouble or
because what we'll get intolater, but I wanted to come back
out and be like, hey, everybody,I'm still me and I'm still doing
good, and you don't have toworry about it because my image
(15:06):
is still up.
And so I had gotten baptized uha couple weeks before I left for
college, and that was a publicstatement for me, not for the
Lord, to show everybody, hey,I'm still doing good.
I'm still living the life, youknow, that I claim to be living.
And so upon the first day ofbeing at Church McConnell, I was
just surrounded by temptation.
(15:26):
I had always heard the funstories of you meet your husband
in college.
And so that's immediately wherewhere my head went is oh, I'm
gonna meet my husband incollege.
So every guy that I ran intothat was remotely attractive, I
was like, oh, this could be him.
This is it, which totallysidetracked me from basketball.
Basketball at that point wasjust kind of like something I
was there to do.
It almost became a job.
(15:46):
It wasn't fun anymore.
It wasn't something that I hadcommitted my life to anymore.
It was something that I had toget through in order to
accomplish this goal that I had,which was to get married at the
end of college.
And so before I left, I told mymom, I was like, hey, you know,
I just want you to know I don'tthink I'm gonna be tempted
anymore.
I don't think I'm gonna beworried about my temptation.
(16:08):
And I think y'all, it'll begood.
You don't have to worry aboutme.
And my mom looked at me and shesaid, It's easy to not be
tempted when you're not aroundyour temptation.
And I was so angry at her forsaying that to me because I was
like, How could how dare you?
Like, I've been doing so good.
Why would you not give me therecognition that I deserve?
And then upon getting tocollege, she couldn't have been
(16:29):
more right.
SPEAKER_04 (16:30):
So Which also I went to a Christian college and I was
in a similar boat as you, likewasn't really living for the
Lord.
Yeah.
And I just thought, okay, if Igo to Christian college, then
I'll like get my ducks in a row.
I could not have been morewrong.
Yep.
I don't know if true it's thesame, but like the party culture
and everything like that isprobably just as much as like a
(16:51):
SEC school or like a stateschool.
And I was very shocked by that.
So I don't know if it's likethat.
SPEAKER_03 (16:58):
But so true, again, I was only there for a semester,
but my understanding of theculture is a lot of the people
there are true God-fearing, likeChrist-loving students.
Uh, but the thing that's hardabout truit is uh, and this
could be a rough estimate, about70% of the students are athletes
because there's so many teams.
It's a small school.
So everybody is just going intoschool, they're doing their
(17:19):
classes, they're doing theirtheir sports, and then they're
going back to their dorm.
And so the the the drinking washeavy for some people, a lot
more the boys' sports, but thethe culture was just very like
bloch.
And again, on my end, that's awarped view because I did not do
my due diligence at all to getto know people.
I really isolated myself.
I became a victim in my ownmentality and was like, nobody
(17:42):
wants to get to know me.
Coming from a background whereeverybody do knew my last name,
everybody cared about who my dadwas and what my athletic
abilities were, walking into ateam where nobody cared about my
last name or how good I was.
I was like the tenth man on thebench.
And I it was just such adifficult wake-up call for me.
And so my immediate route waswell, I'm not seeking attention
(18:05):
or uh glory or any praise inthis area that I had experienced
before.
So let me go the other route andgo back to the boys and back to
the mischievousness and the sinof that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:18):
It's interesting.
Uh the Christian collegedynamic, Christian college,
Christian University.
I think I have a couplethoughts.
Christian high school is thesame.
The hardest kids we work with atSnowbird are Christian school
groups.
And we have uh we do quite a fewChristian school events here.
(18:39):
So, like our summer camps, 80%of what we do at Snowbird is uh
student ministry, 20% is adultministry.
Um our summer camps are allchurch youth groups, the
majority of those kids arepublic school kids.
Um but then we run three weeksin the fall and a couple weeks
in the spring of Christianschool retreats, and they're the
(19:02):
hardest people to work with.
And um, you know, I've I'vethought at times that I had the
answer for why that is, uh, butI'm not sure I can really say
why.
I because a person that lovesthe Lord, loves the Lord
regardless of where they go toschool.
A person that's regenerate, thathas the Holy Spirit of God
(19:25):
living in them, is gonnaflourish at the University of
North Carolina, University ofTennessee, UCLA, whatever
whatever.
Big, huge 30,000, 40,000 studentsecular cool schools that are
assaulting the Christianworldview.
Like it is academia in Americafor 40 years now, 60 years, go
(19:48):
back to the 60s, has been in anall-out frontal assault on the
biblical worldview.
From sexuality to ethics to umtruth versus relativism, like
philosophically, scientifically,historically, the church is
under attack, the Christianworld worldview, the biblical
worldview is under attack.
(20:09):
But then you go to a Christianuniversity and there's another
thing that's working againstyou, and that is Christianity
always flourishes when it'sbeing squeezed.
When it's like persecutionalways creates flourishing in
Christian followers or in theChristian experience.
So if I'm a Christ follower andyou persecute me, you squeeze
(20:31):
me, there's a there's a visual,a word picture in the scripture.
When you squeeze something, andwhat you get out of that, like
for the believer, when yousqueeze them under the under the
pressures of persecution, Christcomes out.
Right?
Like and and and when Jesus isdisplayed, then that there's
where a person flourishes.
(20:51):
And so the Christian schooldilemma, a lot of a lot of
parents, I think, feel like if Isend my kid to a Christian
school, then then that's goingto be the answer, and it's not.
Now, I will say this if a aperson who goes to a Christian
school with the mindset of, Iwant to get a biblical
education, I don't want to dealwith Darwinian evolution, I
(21:13):
don't want to deal withhumanistic uh like secular
humanism in the classroom, thatthat could be some uh like a
really cool option, like okay,I'm gonna go.
Like I have two kids that haveboth got one's got a degree, the
other one's about to have adegree in in psychology and
sociology in secularuniversities, and it's awful the
stuff they endure, you know?
(21:35):
But uh as a believer, if you goto a Christian, a good Christian
school, you have the opportunityto flourish in your faith, but
you have to do the work.
Yeah, you have to be disciplinedand committed to make that
happen.
It's like you can work at a gym,but that's not gonna get you in
shape, right?
Yeah, you you like you got to dothe work.
(21:57):
And so I would just say topeople that listen to this,
parents that are thinking aboutsteering their kids in their own
education, or young people thatare trying to figure out where
to go to college, um, you itdoes not matter where you go.
The Christian life is put yourhand one on each side of the
plow, start grinding and do thatfor the next 50 years.
If you're at UGA or you're atTroop McConnell, you got work to
(22:21):
do.
Yeah.
And and you can find what youneed in terms of biblical
community, um, a solid church,campus ministry.
And I think Gwen's trajectory, Ithink that's all too common in
Christian schools.
SPEAKER_03 (22:35):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I think a lot of it at Truittspecifically was it was
Christians getting caught incomplacency because they're
going to chapel once or twice aweek.
They're doing their biblicalstuff.
There's no, there's no fruit,there's no heart posture, it's
just routine and ritual and oxchecking.
(22:55):
On the other end, we have aschool, I have a coach telling,
and this is no fault of his, butit it does take into account the
culture of Truitt, at least atthe time when I was there.
I have a coach telling me hepromotes biblical values, he is
driven to promote Christ on thisteam while I'm in a locker room
with girls who are in homosexualrelationships.
(23:16):
And so it's like, it's thiswatered down lovey-dovey Christ.
It's not our just God.
It's not our the God thatpunishes sin when you have to
face him one day.
It's the God that, oh, we'rework, you're forgiven no matter
what.
And so you can live in your sinfor the rest of your life.
So being surrounded in anenvironment like that, on top of
(23:39):
all my struggles that I hadalready had, on top of this
warped idea that I had where myexternal surroundings had to all
be lined up before I could workinwardly instead of the
opposite.
I had such a bad view of thatfor some reason, where the only
way I could do my quiet time atnight was if my whole day looked
good.
If my day didn't look good, Goddidn't want to hear from me.
(24:01):
And so that and it justmanifested itself into being
this tumbleweed of, well, I'mnever gonna be good enough
because I'm now on campus livingin sexual sin, being surrounded
by people who, unfortunately onthe basketball team
specifically, just were notliving their lives for Christ.
I mean, some were, but majorityweren't where they said they
were and they weren't.
(24:21):
And it's just this perpetualpattern of, and I don't think, I
think I had the the mindbiblical knowledge, but I didn't
have the heart posture, I didn'thave the Holy Spirit.
I didn't get convicted.
And so it was just such aconfusing time where it's like,
I know what I'm supposed to bedoing, but I don't really want
to do it, and I don't haveanybody telling me now that I
have to do it.
(24:42):
And so I just became complacentin that environment of still
getting to call myself Christianwhile not living for the Lord at
all.
SPEAKER_04 (24:48):
Yeah, I relate to that so much, like having all
the head knowledge but notunderstanding the heart
knowledge.
And last thing I'll say aboutlike kind of that cultural
Christian school, whatever.
I think obviously culturalChristianity, I think, is a
problem in America just already.
Like, but then I think at aChristian school, like you were
(25:10):
saying, I don't want to enableis not necessarily the term I
want to use, but lack for abetter word.
I think sometimes Christianschools can enable cultural
Christianity.
Yeah, they don't want to likecall anyone out for being
homosexual or call anyone outfor um drinking or getting drunk
or you know, sleeping aroundwhatever it is because they
wanna keep that lovey doveyChrist.
(25:32):
But then, like, versus if I wentto a big state school where my
faith is getting attacked,that's when I'm like, oh wait, I
gotta get my act together.
Like, is this what I believe oris it not?
Versus like a Christian school,it's just kind of like almost
like I feel like it has in somein some Christian schools.
I can't speak for everything,but my experience, and it sounds
like your experience has beenlike, man, cultural Christianity
(25:53):
in a Christian school seems likeway more than like yeah, like I
was scared to go to a stateschool because I thought, oh,
I'll go off the rails.
Versus like at college, it'slike it took me a long time to
get on the rails, you know, likebecause it was almost like
enabled, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (26:08):
Are you saying um so it's um like they almost like
they turn a blind eye, theydon't address these hard issues.
Yeah that was your experiences.
Yeah, uh just don't talk aboutit.
SPEAKER_04 (26:22):
I also think because same at my school, my college,
70, 80 percent of the studentsare athletes who a lot of them
came from different countrieswho were brought in.
And so they don't know the Lordat all.
They don't have any like realm.
They think religion they justhave different views, right?
(26:42):
And so I think in order to liketo bring them in, they would be
uberly kind or uberly nice.
And no one would sit them downand say, Hey, you getting drunk
every weekend is not fulfillingyou.
Like to them, they just thought,I can't drink, it's dry season
for swim, I can't drink, or likethey just didn't understand it.
Everyone would just kind of belike super kind, like Jesus
(27:04):
loves you, like, no, it's foryou can do that, you can sleep
around.
But no one would sit down and belike, Hey, wow, you know, and I
I feel like that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03 (27:13):
There's such a lack of accountability.
I mean, the scripture is soclear about when somebody is
doing something wrong, living insin, you approach them.
If that doesn't work, you bringsomebody with you.
If that doesn't work, you sendthem off.
And that doesn't just apply inthe church, that applies in any
environment that is trying touphold a Christ-like manner,
attitude, and heart posture,yeah, even in the schools.
(27:34):
And so when you find yourselflike we did at a school where,
and truth be told, I wasn't evena Christ follower while I was
there either.
So I fell into that camp ofpeople who claimed to be
something weren't, got torepresent that on campus.
And then it was just when youhave people like me and other
people representing Christ in abad manner, that's just that
(27:58):
becomes the culture.
And a lot of the times it'sblissful ignorance too, because
the professors and the coachesdon't know what's going on
behind the scenes, they just seehow you act in front of them and
they're like, that's good.
I don't even know if the coachknew that half the girls were
living in not only sexual sinbut same-sex sin.
And that has to be addressedhead on.
You the the points on thescoreboard cannot outweigh the
(28:22):
the convictions in the lockerroom.
And so that, yeah, that's athat's a big issue.
SPEAKER_01 (28:27):
Oh man, that's like a sermon that you just said.
The points on the scoreboardcannot outweigh the convictions
in the locker room.
Yeah.
That's man.
I what I think what I'm hearingboth of y'all say, what I what I
would say as a ministry leaderis we just people that are gonna
(28:49):
lead need to have a spine and abackbone.
And you understand that Grace,Grace has a spine.
We just did this three-partseries where I talked I told
that story about the young manwho I got an email from that
dude.
SPEAKER_04 (29:03):
Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:05):
Which is crazy.
Um you know who you are andyou're listening to this, and uh
I'm I'm gonna respond.
I've just been thinking abouthow I want to respond.
But in that it was a story wherethe or it was an episode where
the principle I was I was tryingto teach was you can forgive
someone, you can extend grace tosomebody.
(29:25):
In this context, as a coach or aministry leader or a professor
or a dean, you can be gentle andkind with people, but the gospel
cannot be softened.
Like it is what it is.
You and I remember this old uhlike Spurgeon or somebody used
this phrase.
No, I think it was uh um I'mgonna go off sc off screen
(29:48):
behind the camera.
Who's a dude that was uh he diJC Row, you know that name?
J C Rile was like uh that he wasthe last conservative head of
the Church of England, I think.
And he wrote extensively in thelate 1800s on biblical manhood.
And he referred to people asvelvet-mouthed preachers because
(30:09):
they had started to pedal areally soft gospel.
Or Dietrich Bonhoeff, who said,he said, we peddle grace like
cheap jackwares, in other words,like flea market items.
You go to you go to Goodwill andyou buy what when you go to
Goodwill, you're looking forhigh-end stuff for five dollars.
I'm trying to find somethingthat's I'm I'm trying to find a
(30:31):
hundred dollar item for threedollars, right?
I'm trying to merge these twoworlds where I get something
valuable for cheap.
The gospel doesn't work likethat.
The gospel is never cheap.
Grace is never cheap.
Grace cost Jesus his life,right?
And it costs me my life.
It just looks different.
That's why Jesus said, take upyour cross and follow me.
(30:52):
And so my word, listening toy'all talk about this, my
challenge to people, whetheryou're a dad, a mom, a
professor, a teacher, aChristian school principal, a
coach, if you are a Christfollower, do not cheapen grace.
But also extend grace.
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:10):
Because the flip side of it is don't become
legalistic and heavy-handed,right?
And so I, you know, it justmakes me wonder as we as we walk
through your story, like, man,if somebody just had a spine in
that world.
SPEAKER_04 (31:24):
Yeah, and I think a lot of times people are like
desperately looking for it.
They just don't like even thestudent body president at Carson
Newman University, a Christianuniversity, was gay and partook
in drag, and nobody nobody wouldsay anything about it.
Like it's just it's like I don'tknow, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_01 (31:42):
That's crazy.
SPEAKER_04 (31:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:44):
So uh Jeby touched on something.
International students pour in,and that's where I think your
story starts to kind of take acrazy direction.
SPEAKER_03 (31:53):
Yeah.
So I had met a guy, um, and youknow, we showed relative
interest in each other.
It wasn't anything crazy.
We didn't, we weren't dating,but we were pursuing an intimate
relationship outside ofmarriage.
And um every time I went and,you know, in involved myself in
(32:14):
sexual sin, I would leave and Iwould be like, man, I've got to
stop doing that.
That's not good for me.
That's not good for him.
It's just not.
I still had kind of that thathead knowledge, a little bit of
conviction, like this is justnot a good situation.
Nobody knew that I was doingthis with him.
And it I loved it.
Part of me, my flesh loved itbecause it was this secret that
nobody knew about, my parentsdidn't know about.
(32:36):
It was the one situation in mylife that I had control over.
It wasn't I didn't have controlover basketball, I didn't have
control over classes, and Ididn't even have control over
who I got to be friends with.
It felt like I kind of just hadto be friends with my teammates.
This was the one situation whereI could predict the outcome, I
could predict, at least Ithought, how this is gonna go.
It was self-fulfilling, uh, ourour needs were getting met, we
(32:58):
were receiving pleasure fromthis experience that we were
doing with each other, andnobody knew about it.
And so um, you know, we kind ofstayed in contact.
The first time that I realized Ihad never participated, well,
I'll just say I had never hadsex with somebody outside of
dating them.
And so while that's not even thestandard, to me, that was a
(33:19):
whole new level of of of sin inmy head of I'm now just hooking
up with this guy.
I'm not even dating him.
SPEAKER_01 (33:26):
And you would you would rationalize like if you're
in a relationship, you wouldrationalize it as, but I'm
committed to this person andwe're together.
SPEAKER_03 (33:35):
Well, I'm gonna get married, I'm gonna marry them
eventually.
So yeah, it was I had dated aboy in high school for two
years, and I I had lost myvirginity at 17 years old, and I
was like, Well, I'm gonna marryhim one day, and he was a
pastor's son, and so we bothwere able to compartmentalize
our faith, yeah.
Talk, talk, you know, pray afterand make it okay.
And it was such a manipulationof the scripture and what we're
(33:55):
yeah we're told to do.
And so the very first time meand him had been in sexual sin,
that next day we were in the umcafe, and so I like kind of
passed him and said hey, and hekind of just walked by me.
And I was like, Oh, like this isa whole new area where you're
not even gonna acknowledge me inthe daylight.
Wow.
So that was a and I immediatelywas so sad and so upset, and
(34:18):
then I was like, oh no, becauseeverything was a competition for
me.
I was like, You're not gonna,you're not gonna do this with me
at night and then act like youdon't see me during the day.
And so then I was like, you'renot, it was a game, you're not
gonna win this game.
So then I ignored him continuingon, and it became this thing
where we ignored each other inperson and then we were together
in private.
(34:38):
And so the last time that wehooked up, our safe sex method
failed, and we had a scare, andwe went and told two of our
friends who were um in the dormnext to us, and they were like,
Well, hey, you need to go get goget her a plan B and we will uh
pr pretend this never happened.
So he was a foreign exchangestudent, like you said.
(35:01):
He was on the team for soccer,the men's soccer team.
And again, that lined upperfectly because he's not even
from my country.
How much more secret can it get?
You know, my parents don't knowwho he is.
So he goes and gets me a plan Band I take it, and that was the
last time I've ever seen him wasthe night after our safe sex
(35:22):
method failed, for lack of abetter word.
So I go back to my dorm room andI'm just like sitting there
grappling with my experiencebecause every single person
who's ever found themselves inan unfortunate circumstance,
before the circumstance, tellsthemselves, this won't happen to
me.
Um, it won't happen to me.
I know it happens to otherpeople, it never happened to me.
So I just plead out to the Lordand I'm like, God, I'm so sorry.
(35:44):
I've been living my life likethis.
I I'm ready to get back ontrack.
I'm ready to start going anddoing these superficial things
that you've asked me to do againwhile still not changing my
heart posture.
So I go back to classes, I goback to basketball, I'm just
like locked in.
I'm like, I'm I tell him wecan't see each other anymore.
This is just, we got to cut itoff.
So he leaves, he goes over uhback to his home country for
(36:08):
Christmas break because theforeign exchange students got to
leave a little bit earlierbecause they had more travel.
And I started to not feel good.
This was around November of 22,early November, about the first
week of December.
I start to not feel good.
I'm in this is probably TMI, butI'm just like waiting for my
period.
I'm like, I've got to get myperiod, I've got to like, let's
(36:28):
get this ball rolling, let'smake sure officially,
officially, that we're good.
I can continue back my life howI have laid it out to be.
And tell me if I'm being toolike cryptic in my wording, I
can be more.
Okay.
I don't know how the how detaily'all get and stuff.
Um, so I call my friend fromhome.
Her name's Jaden, and I waslike, hey Jaden, can you please
come up here for the weekend?
(36:49):
Let's like let's hang out.
And Jaden kind of knew thesituation.
I'd been keeping her up with thethe situation with this guy.
So Jaden comes up for theweekend, and I'm just telling
her, like, hey, I'm about twoweeks, three weeks late on my
period.
And she's like, you need to takea pregnancy test.
I was like, I can't.
And she's like, what is thatgonna do?
If you take it and it'snegative, we'll know.
If you take it and it'spositive, we'll know.
(37:11):
It's not gonna change thesituation.
But for some reason, I just wasso against because I didn't want
to have to face the truth ifthat was it.
So she walks into this Walgreensbecause Truth's in such a small
town, and I'm like, I'm not,you're not gonna catch me in
there buying a pregnancy test.
So I send her in Walgreens orCVS, whatever it was.
We come out, we go to a Wendy'sbathroom, I take the test,
(37:32):
immediately it shows up twolines.
And so I start laughing becauseI am in such a headspace where
my sin has been socompartmentalized.
I'm like, this is like there'sno way this is not real.
So I immediately go on Googleand I'm reading, like, oh, you
know, if a woman's dehydrated,it might come up positive
(37:52):
positive.
If she's eaten too much,whatever, it's positive.
And I'm like thinking, okay,this is a false positive.
You know, I'm about to eat myperiod, that's why it says
whatever.
So Jaden has like thismanuscript of like the pregnancy
test paper, and we're likereading it, like it's that
confusing if it's positive ornegative.
You know, we're like, okay.
So we go back to my dorm room.
Well, I tell two of myteammates, the one that I had
(38:14):
met the night of that told us weshould get a plan B and another
girl.
Well, on the if you if anybodyknows anything about a plan B,
it's an abortive facient, whichmeans that it's even if the
sperm enters the egg, it canstop it from attaching to the
uterine wall, which in itself isan abortion.
Yes.
But I was under the impressionit was just your last resort to
not just not get pregnant.
SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
And it's uh there's a window, like a time frame.
SPEAKER_03 (38:39):
Yes, there's a 72-hour time frame, so it says,
but if you're ovulating, itdoesn't, it almost helps, it
almost helps the egg attach tothe uter wall.
So I was ovulating at the time.
So I was like, I didn't knowthat that was just gonna
increase the chances of beingpregnant.
But you did take Yeah, I took itwithin 12 hours of the incident.
And so I was like, Oh, I'm good.
There, I'm in the green, we'regood.
So I take the pregnancy test, Igo tell these other two girls,
(39:02):
they're like, hey, let's all gotogether because they've taken
tests before, you know, and theywere like, let's go together,
let's go to Walmart, we'll getsome tests, we'll figure this
out.
So Jaden's in the car, she's inthe front, these other two girls
get in the back, and then thisother girl gets in the car.
And I'm like, What in the world?
Like, I'm trying to keep this onthe low.
I do not want my sin aired out,and some random girl is getting
(39:24):
in the car.
I was so upset.
SPEAKER_01 (39:25):
You didn't know this girl.
SPEAKER_03 (39:26):
I didn't know her.
I didn't know her.
And I had recognized her,obviously, small school, but I
have never had a conversationwith her, wasn't friends with
her.
So I turn around and she tellsme her name is Zoe.
I was like, hey, I'm Gwyn, I'mpregnant.
Do you want to go get some testswith us?
And she was like, Yeah, sure.
So she had already kind of beenbriefed on the situation.
So we drive to Walmart,everybody's giggling, frolicking
(39:46):
around, having a good time, andI'm just like, This is surreal.
Guys, like this is serious.
And it was weird because I waswith them on the fun of it, and
then I was like in the back ofmy head, like, well, no wonder
you're having a good time.
This isn't you that's pregnant,you know.
And I knew, I knew in the backof my mind that I was pregnant,
I just wasn't willing to acceptit yet.
(40:07):
So we go, we kind of playpregnancy roulette where every
girl takes a test just tocompare, because we knew some
people were gonna be negativefor sure.
So we lay them all out, and mineis just like, oh, immediately.
It we didn't even have to waitthe three to five minutes.
And so I take myself around thecorner and I sit down, and I had
told the dad from the firstpregnancy test, I sent him a
(40:28):
picture.
I was like, hey, this is sayingI'm pregnant.
What do you want to do?
And he immediately said, You gotto get an abortion.
And growing up, I hadn't reallyheard about abortion.
You know, I knew it was bad thesame way I knew sex and drugs
were bad.
I didn't know why, I didn'treally know what it what it
entailed.
And I knew I was against aprocedure.
My conviction was I'm notgetting a procedure, but then he
(40:51):
introduced me to the abortionpill.
So I thought, well, that's thesame thing as the plan B.
That's fine.
SPEAKER_01 (40:57):
Okay, until right now, I thought that was the same
thing.
SPEAKER_03 (40:59):
Yeah, no, completely different.
Okay.
So the plan B is the so condom'skind of the plan A.
Plan B is this actual pill,that's what it's called.
And then they call it a plan Csometimes to avoid the abortion
word, which is abortion pill.
It's called methapristone.
And it terminates it terminatesyour pregnancy.
Pregnancy.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (41:18):
Yeah.
Plan B, correct me if I'm wrong,just makes it a hostile
environment for the sperm andthe egg to meet.
Yeah.
But plan C or this abortion pillliterally kills the fetus.
Kills the baby.
SPEAKER_03 (41:31):
Yep.
You can take it up to 12 weeks.
SPEAKER_01 (41:33):
Um so the whole first trimester you could take
this pill.
SPEAKER_03 (41:36):
Yep.
And there's some there's some uhplaces in the US that will
prescribe it up to three thethird trimester.
There are women who have the theFDA right it's not FDA
regulated, which means it cancross state lines, it can be
given to minors.
There is so much uh justmalpractice around the abortion
pill specifically, and that isthe leading cause of abortions
(41:59):
right now because of theoverturning of Roe versus Wade
and a lot of the heartbeat billsin these states, women can't go
in and get abortion proceduresanymore, but now they can get
the abortion pill.
SPEAKER_01 (42:10):
Okay.
So you get so first trimester.
If you if you are pregnant, youcan you get this pill, you have
to get it prescribed, or you'resaying you can't.
SPEAKER_03 (42:22):
Yeah, you can just go in.
SPEAKER_01 (42:23):
I that's where you're saying that even you
cross state lines and go get it.
Yep.
Also you just go get it.
SPEAKER_04 (42:28):
A lot of things with abortion and planned parenthood
and everything like that, theywill advocate.
Like let's say I brought in a16-year-old girl and was like,
hey, she's pregnant, I needsomeone to get me an abortion
pill.
Their little workers wouldsomehow go get it, find it, and
get it.
Like they will advocate and findways because this is their
crusade.
SPEAKER_01 (42:47):
Yep, yeah.
This is their this is theirpurpose, their crusade.
Let's get this baby aborted inthis 16-year-old girl's belly.
Yep.
And so you could just get thatpill, you take the medication
and it terminates the pregnancy.
SPEAKER_03 (43:02):
You can order online.
There are websites.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (43:05):
So then when you do that, then do you pass that
baby?
Yes.
I'm assuming.
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (43:09):
So you were told you were instructed by the either
website that you buy from or theclinic worker that you meet
with.
You're gonna have a couplecramping, it's gonna feel like
your period.
Do not just don't look in thetoilet, just keep flushing, and
you'll be good.
There's testimonials of womenwho have looked in the toilet at
10 to 12 weeks and have seentheir child's limbs in the
(43:32):
toilet and have hemorrhaged.
There's story, there's a recentstory out of Texas where a man
bought an abortion pill, crushedit up, put it in his
girlfriend's drink, she drank itand passed the baby.
Because there's no regulationsaround this pill.
Anybody can get their hands onit.
This is the number one thingthat sex traffickers use to keep
women from, the young girls tokeep them from getting pregnant
(43:55):
is they just push out thisabortion pill.
It's disgusting.
And if it was FDA regulated, itwould have to be stripped off
the market because the turnoverrate of people that experience,
I don't know what the number is,I think it's like less than 2%,
something like that.
The turnover rate of people thatexperience fatal outcomes, the
women themselves, it is sodangerous.
(44:16):
And so we can get in this later,but thank God I didn't because
who knows if I would even behere if I took that pill, much
less my daughter.
But it is so dangerous.
There is so much malpracticearound it, it's disgusting.
SPEAKER_01 (44:31):
Man, I'm I'm a little embarrassed to say I
didn't know any of this.
SPEAKER_04 (44:35):
Well, um honestly, rightfully so, because they do
such a good job of disguisingit.
Yeah, you wouldn't know.
You know, like even in highschool, a lot of my friends
would take plan B and I did notknow like I remember when I came
to Snowbird in high school andthere was an abortion breakout,
it lit my butt on fire.
Like from that moment, I've doneresearch because they do such a
(44:56):
good job of disguising it tomake it seem like like even
birth control.
This this might be a hot take,and I know a lot of people do
not agree with me, but I thinkbirth control is if not, it like
I think anything that makes thewomb a hostile environment is
abortive.
Absolutely.
And I think even if it's not,even if somehow you tweak it and
(45:17):
say, Well, no, this one doesn't,it's still supporting a an
abortive company.
Yeah, it's an abortive it's anabortive facient.
SPEAKER_03 (45:24):
All birth control is an abortive facient.
SPEAKER_04 (45:25):
And there's no a lot of people don't agree with that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (45:28):
Which okay?
That's so that becomes uh and II am familiar with this debate
even within evangelicalChristian circles, there's a
debate over that.
Sure.
What is what would be allowed,what would not be allowed.
But you said this has become thenumber one form of birth
control.
SPEAKER_03 (45:48):
Absolutely.
And that's why when when you sayto somebody who you're debating
with, oh, abortion, abortion'sthe number one leading cause of
death, and they say women aren'teven getting abortions at high
numbers anymore.
It's because they don't mark theabortion pill as an abortion.
So you don't know.
I think it's something like1,600 lives per day.
Babies are passed due to theabortion pill.
SPEAKER_01 (46:09):
And that number doesn't get counted in abortion
statistics.
SPEAKER_03 (46:12):
Because it's not the procedure.
SPEAKER_01 (46:14):
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_03 (46:15):
Because you can just hand it out.
We don't know how many peopleare getting these every day
because you can just give it toanybody.
Men can get it, women can getit, kids can get it.
SPEAKER_01 (46:23):
Does it uh if if somebody goes to get it, does it
cost them money?
SPEAKER_03 (46:28):
So, from my understanding, when I so I I
again I talked to the father, wecan get back to this because
this will answer your question.
I talked to the father, he waslike, You need to get an
abortion.
Well, I go and I look it up,it's$600 to get an abortion.
And then I look up the abortionpill, which was introduced to me
by him, and I see that it rangesfrom about$300 to$150.
(46:51):
I don't know what it would looklike, the cost.
A lot of these PlannedParenthoods will give it to you
for free if you go in.
Because while they are anonprofit, they get taxpayer
money from the government.
Yeah.
So they don't have to chargepeople for these things.
SPEAKER_01 (47:04):
Which that is could be an entire episode where we
talk about funding of PlannedParenthood.
Um, yeah, like m like a fewyears ago, that whole thing,
that undercover thing where theywere selling baby parts and that
could be its own disgustingepisode.
SPEAKER_04 (47:22):
It's bad.
SPEAKER_01 (47:23):
Okay, so all right, let's let's Yes.
So he this is what he'sencouraging.
SPEAKER_03 (47:28):
Yeah, so he's like, you've got he's freaking out.
He's like, I can't tell myparents I got some girl in
America pregnant, like you'vegot to get an abortion pill.
And he wasn't saved at the time,and so it was a I I I fought I
had so much anger towards him atthe beginning, but I understand
because I also was like, yeah,let's do it.
Like, let's get the let's do thepill.
So I go and I talk to the girls,and they're like, well, you
(47:49):
know, they didn't reallyencourage me to do it, but they
also weren't saying that's not agood idea.
They were like, that's what youwant to do, that's fine.
And so I went and I called everyhospital and clinic within an
hour radius, and I was like, Doyou carry the abortion pill?
All of them said no, because theheartbeat bill had just gotten
signed.
I believe it was in 2018 byRandy Robertson in Georgia.
I was at four weeks, so I had upand I had two weeks to make this
(48:11):
decision before I wouldn't haveany other options unless I was
gonna cross state lines.
And so I eventually went and gotonline and found a Planned
Parenthood in Atlanta.
It was about an hour and a halfaway from Truett.
And I made an appointment.
I didn't have to talk to aperson, I didn't have to tell
them I was pregnant.
I just went online.
I put in my name, my birthday,when I want to do my
(48:34):
appointment, and what I'mlooking to get.
And I submitted it.
And I had my blocked schedulefor me to walk in and get an
abortion pill.
SPEAKER_01 (48:41):
And how fast did that turn did you get
confirmation from them when youit was immediately.
SPEAKER_03 (48:46):
Immediately I literally just had to go on the
website.
Yeah, I just put in the timethat I could come in.
They showed me the slots thatthey had.
I chose what I wanted, I put myname in and I submitted it and I
was on the schedule.
Wow.
And so immediately I'm like, ohwell, I I have a conclusion to
this problem.
I'm good.
I I didn't want to go.
A lot of times when I tell mystory, I emphasize how impactful
(49:10):
this was for me.
But I knew in the back of myhead I was doing something
wrong.
But I had dehumanized anddevalued my daughter so much to
the point where I didn't evensee her as a human anymore
because she didn't have aheartbeat.
Her brainwaves weren't going.
She was still a clump of cells.
It's my body.
This will ruin my life.
I'm not financially stable.
I'm not with the father.
(49:31):
I had all the excuses torationalize this decision in my
head.
And I was just pushing them overand over to myself to convince
me, hey, this is okay.
You're doing okay.
You will look back at this andbe thankful that this is what
you did because you have abasketball career ahead of you.
So I'm sitting in this room.
I found myself convenientlyenough, not wanting to be by
(49:52):
myself, shocker.
I'm in the worst situation thatI've ever experienced.
So my friend Jaden, she's, youknow, trying to like pick at me
a little bit, like, hey, are yousure?
Like, you know, she showed methese lyrics to this Nicki Minaj
song where Nicki Minaj hadtalked about getting an abortion
and how um she regretted it.
And I was, I just, she was tooclose to the situation for me.
(50:14):
I just couldn't hear.
So she eventually goes home andI'm sitting in the room with my
two basketball friends and Zoe.
The two basketball friends leavebecause they have other stuff to
do.
So now it's just me and Zoe.
So I was so desperate to be incompany.
SPEAKER_01 (50:27):
Zoe's the girl you didn't know.
SPEAKER_03 (50:28):
Yes.
Yeah.
I was so desperate to be incompany that I'm sitting in a
room with a girl I met threedays prior, and we're just
sitting there and we're chattingand we're talking, and I was
like, all right, well, I gottago back to my room.
So I'm packing up my stuff.
And she's like, Hey, can I talkto you for a second?
And I was like, Yeah, sure.
And she's a pastor's daughter aswell.
I didn't know that at the time.
And she said, Hey, I I want youto know that although I don't
(50:53):
personally understand whatyou're going through, I know
people that have gone throughwhat you're going through.
And I'm also a pastor'sdaughter, so I cannot imagine
what this has been like for you.
But you need to know that theLord has considered you now and
forever a mother.
Because that baby is in yourstomach, you whether you get
(51:14):
this abortion or not, you aregoing to be a mom.
And you have been chosen to takecare of this baby.
This is your DNA that is growinginside of you.
And this baby was made in thelikeness and image of Christ.
And if you go and get thisabortion, you are killing what
God has created.
(51:36):
And I was like, What the heck?
SPEAKER_01 (51:39):
Were you mad?
SPEAKER_03 (51:40):
I was pissed.
I was like, How dare you?
How dare you tell me what to do?
How dare you try to hold Christover my head?
How dare you try to speak into asituation that you are not a
part of?
So I just start bawling and Iwas like, look, I get it, but I
just can't.
I'm sorry, I can't.
So I go back to my dorm, I go tosleep.
The next day we have practicebecause so this was the day that
(52:02):
me and Zoe talked.
We have practice, and then wehave our last basketball game on
December 16th.
SPEAKER_01 (52:07):
Before the Christmas break.
SPEAKER_03 (52:09):
Before the Christmas break.
So I had I had planned, here wasmy plan.
I was gonna I had scheduled theabortion pill to go pick it up.
I had practice game.
I was gonna tell my parents Ihave to stay an extra day for
practice.
I was gonna have one of myfriends drive me to the clinic,
get the pill, come back, takeit, and then go home for
Christmas break.
SPEAKER_01 (52:29):
All right, stop.
Let's stop right here.
SPEAKER_03 (52:32):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (52:33):
We're at 50 minutes.
This will keep people are gonnabe so mad.
They're gonna have to wait aweek.
SPEAKER_00 (52:44):
Thanks for listening to No Sanity Required.
Please take a moment tosubscribe and leave a rating.
It really helps.
Visit us at swoutfitters.com tosee all of our programming and
resources.
We'll see you next week on NoSanity Required.
Hey everybody, welcome back to this week's
episode of NSR.
I am so, so, so, so excited foryou guys to hear this episode.
Um, we interviewed a young ladynamed Gwen.
Um, she used to come as a youngkid um with a church that
Snorbert has been partneringwith for a long time.
So we got to kind of talk aboutyou know her old memories from
(00:22):
camp.
That was really fun.
And then um she just dives rightin and shares her story, and it
is just so crazy to hear herstory, and she is so well
spoken.
And yeah, I'm really excited foryou guys to hear her story.
Uh, this will also be atwo-parter, uh, so be looking
out for the second part.
Uh, you guys will not want tomiss that one either.
(00:44):
Um, but yeah, I hope I reallyhope you guys have been enjoying
all of this interview content.
I've received a lot of me andBertie both have received a lot
of really encouraging feedback.
Um, it's really cool that we getto interview all these people,
and I'm so grateful for that.
Um, but yeah, thank you guys somuch for tuning in.
I hope you guys enjoy thisepisode, and I just wanted to
(01:06):
give a few announcements, Iguess.
We are gearing up for our winterretreats and our winter swes,
which are just a blast, superfun.
It's almost like a week ofsummer packed into three or four
days.
Um, but if you guys areinterested, I think we have a
few spots left for our secondwinter swow.
(01:28):
So winter swow two.
If you guys are interested, Iwill drop the link in the
description below.
Definitely go check that out.
Spots do fly like crazy, but Ido know we have a few spots
left.
So if you're interested,definitely go sign up.
You're not gonna want to missthat.
Um, but yeah, super excited forall the things that we've been
preparing for.
(01:48):
Uh, skits and just teaching andeverything like that.
It's awesome.
It's gonna be great.
I hope you guys enjoy thisweek's episode.
And welcome to No SanityRequired.
SPEAKER_00 (02:06):
Welcome to No Sanity Required from the Ministry of
Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters,a podcast about the Bible,
culture, and stories from aroundthe globe.
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Well, we're gonna have a conversation with Gwen,
Gwen Andrews.
So we'll just jump right intoit.
Thanks for coming.
I know it's a big deal.
What's it like three hours?
SPEAKER_03 (02:26):
335 on the door.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (02:29):
That's it's a big deal to me that you would drive
up here to do this.
So I just I want to start bysaying that I really appreciate
it.
And I know the people that aregonna listen to this are gonna
appreciate it.
Um that's a two-day thing.
That's you know, three and ahalf hours to to do this, it's
not like up, do it, back.
I mean, so it's a big deal, andso I'm trusting the Lord to use
(02:51):
your story.
I know he's going to.
I kind of haven't been able toget over your story, you know,
since we talked a month ago.
Um and I should probably prefacethat by saying, I've known you
your whole life, but your story,you kind of went off my radar
for a while.
I think how old the last timeyou came to Snowbird as a
(03:13):
student, I was ninth grade.
SPEAKER_03 (03:14):
Tenth grade, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
Tenth grade.
SPEAKER_03 (03:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
And so then you just disappeared and I didn't see you
anymore.
And I knew you were you're ahooper, and I knew you were like
pursuing that, chasing thatdream, and I was kind of keeping
up with that through some mutualfriends, um co-pastors with your
dad.
And so I was keeping up with it,and then you know, just out of
(03:38):
sight, out of mind, then I andthen you so then uh when
Southside was here, Labor Dayweekend for a retreat, Gwen
comes walking up to me, like Iwas like, I it took me a minute,
could you tell?
Yeah.
I was like, I know wait, I knowthis person, but I mean I know
tenth grade you.
SPEAKER_03 (03:56):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:57):
Right.
And the last time I remembertalking to you, you were
probably in the ninth grade, andwe had a conversation at
Snowbird and it was real brief.
And but then kind of the memoryin my mind of you is like
10-year-old you.
SPEAKER_02 (04:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:15):
So when you walked up to me, I was like, wait, are
you are you and it took me aminute, but then I was like, no
way.
So we ended up uh sitting down.
Gwen actually said, I want tosit down and just tell you my
testimony.
SPEAKER_02 (04:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:28):
And so all those years that I did not know what
was going on, a lot was goingon.
SPEAKER_02 (04:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:33):
And you have lived a crazy no sanity story.
Um and so I asked you to comeback, and here you are.
So it means a lot.
Um really big deal to us thatyou would do this and our the
folks that listen to this andwatch this.
So um let's let's start off.
Uh, let's just do some funstuff.
Okay.
(04:54):
So do you remember, can youremember the first time that you
came to Snowbird?
SPEAKER_03 (05:01):
I have, I think a lot of my memories blended
together because I did the samething every time I came here.
I do remember specifically beingin love with the skate ramp.
Um it was huge because I waslittle.
I don't I couldn't put it into adepth perception now, but there
was one time where all the highschoolers were sliding down the
skate ramp, and I was like, Ijust wanted so desperately to be
(05:23):
involved with the snowbirdleaders.
I was 10, but that was just, youknow, I'm sure all the little
kids do that.
So I go up there and I'm like,I'm gonna be really cool and I'm
gonna slide down this skateramp.
All of them are on their skates,they'll probably like come up
and talk to me after this.
So I sit on my butt, I'm inthese sweatpants, a t-shirt.
My mom is who knows where, myfamily's just around.
I slide down and I'm like, Ifeel this nick in my leg.
(05:46):
And one of the screws was up andit had nipped my butt all the
way down my leg, and mysweatpants were torn and I was
just bleeding.
And I was like, I don't, what doI don't know any of these
leaders?
I don't know where Bertie andLittle are.
I don't know where my parentsare.
And so I ran and I ran up tothis old lady.
I don't I could I don't evenknow who she was, and I was
like, hey, I ripped my pants.
(06:06):
Can you help me?
So then I had to go get atetanus shot, and then I she
like glued my leg together, andI was like mortified, not
because I had gotten hurt, butbecause I was around a bunch of
teenagers who had cool outfitson and my pants were ripped.
That's what I was worried about,was that my pants were my mom's
like, everybody has rippedpants, it's okay, like it's in.
And I was like, No, but mine'son the back, not the front.
(06:27):
Like they're gonna think I'mweird.
And it's true.
So yeah, even from a little age,clearly I was very image
conscious and worried about whatothers were thinking about me.
But the skate ramp was a big,big memory for me, the foam pit.
SPEAKER_01 (06:39):
Um I you were rough and tumble, like you fit in good
here.
SPEAKER_03 (06:43):
Absolutely, yeah.
Playing basketball, that was alot of fun.
SPEAKER_01 (06:45):
So you're a tomboy.
Um Laylee cut her hand on one ofthose.
Eventually, we that's part ofwhy we tore that thing down.
It just got too what it was, thethe covering on that skate park
was sheet metal.
And we would we would grind andsand and weld and keep
everything smooth, those screwswould back out.
Laylee hit did the same thingand it ripped, I mean it gnarly
(07:09):
ripped her finger.
She was probably six.
And I remember working takingher up to the coop and working
on it, and she was always atough kid, you know.
So she usually she did not wantto cry.
She would do everything, she didnot want to cry.
Um, that's funny.
I didn't I don't remember that.
That's so crazy.
Yeah, but what a memory thatskate park and the foam pit were
(07:30):
fixtures at Snowbird for 20years.
Yep.
That's crazy.
Because I don't know.
Was it skatepark here when youstarted coming?
SPEAKER_04 (07:38):
Yeah, like my first year, skate park and foam pit.
Actually, I think I came firstat a at a winter swell and the
skate park was there.
Came back in the summer, it wasgone, but foam pit was still
there.
Okay.
Came back again and foam pit wasgone.
SPEAKER_01 (07:51):
Yeah, the skate park's probably been gone eight
or ten years now.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (07:54):
My first year was either like 2014 or 2015.
Okay.
That sounds right.
SPEAKER_01 (07:58):
Yeah.
Dang, that's crazy.
And then I remember you wouldcome before you were old enough
to attend with students becauseyour your mom's sister worked on
staff, so you had a familyconnection, your church was
coming, so y'all would just allcome up.
SPEAKER_02 (08:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:15):
Do you remember?
Did we ever go?
I don't know if you would havegone with us.
We would go, Josh and DanielleRay and a group of us, I'm
getting sidetracked here, but wewould go to the fall festival at
the John C.
Campbell Folk School, and abunch of Southside people would
go to each other.
SPEAKER_03 (08:29):
Oh, I'm probably very sure I went.
Like, I remember going toy'all's house.
I remember little taking me intoa gas station and getting me a
chocolate mill.
Like I looking back, I didn'trealize how intertwined we were.
And so I think that's why it wasso important for me to come up
to you later on, like lastmonth.
But yeah, I have so manymemories here that looking back,
I'm like, man, Snowbird reallydid play a big part in my
(08:50):
childhood.
Yeah, yeah.
That's so cool.
SPEAKER_01 (08:53):
It is.
So you get to, and we'll seeLittle at lunch today, still and
caught up with her.
Um, so um get into high school,the main thing then the shift is
you're just you're you'rehooping.
You're trying your goal was togo play college ball.
Um you're a pastor's kid, bigchurch, spotlights on you.
SPEAKER_02 (09:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
Everybody knew you could hoop.
There's a lot of pressure.
SPEAKER_03 (09:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
But you're also kind of an alpha personality.
You got that dog in you.
SPEAKER_03 (09:23):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (09:24):
So just walk us, let's let's start like get into
high school, because that lasttime we would have seen you
before not long ago was when youwere a sophomore in high school.
So what was high school like?
And then and then just let'sjust go from there.
SPEAKER_03 (09:38):
Yeah, so I started out at a public school.
I grew up public school my wholelife, and then I realized in my
ninth grade year, I wasn'tgetting enough time on the
court.
And so I wanted to, you know,make a change.
I had been getting in troublewith, you know, friend groups
and boys and stuff like that,typical high school stuff.
So my parents saw an opportunityto move me to a private school.
(10:00):
My dad ended up getting offereda coaching position there.
And so he was like, hey, youknow, you sat me down that
summer.
I think this would be a reallygood transition for you.
You know, kind of pitched it asthis, you'll get a lot of
recognition for this.
It'll be good for your career,basketball career.
And I was like, Yeah, let's doit.
So we transferred to CentralFellowship, me and my brother,
and my sister.
(10:20):
And from the first day that Iwalked in, you know, usually you
would think high school girl,new school, I'm like a ball of
anxiety, I'm nervous.
I was eating it up.
When I tell you, like I wasabsolutely loving it because
they didn't have a lot of peopletransfer in.
It was a smaller school at thetime.
On top of being athletic, beingyoung, being cute, it was just
(10:42):
like I loved it.
And so all eyes were on me,played all the sports I could
get my hands on.
I even started doingcross-country for the heck of
it, which I absolutely hated.
I don't know why I did it.
But yeah, so high school was, Imean, I I loved high school.
I think I always say that thatwas the one of the like best or
most fun times of my life, but alot of it was because I was
(11:03):
living my life in sin while Iwas in high school.
So a lot of my memories werelike adrenaline dopamine
self-fulfilling memories.
Um, but I played basketball in10th grade through 12th grade
there.
I was the seventh leading scorerin the state of Georgia.
I was also the leading scorerfor technical fouls.
I was a very angry girl.
(11:24):
Um, my dad was the coach.
My sister, I got to play with mysister, some of my best friends
transferred in.
And so that became my identityin high school, was just the
athletic basketball girl.
And I kind of rode with that.
I was like, that's fine.
I had came out of a season of mylife where I felt so much
external pressure being apastor's daughter, and it wasn't
(11:44):
anything that anybody put on me.
It was I had created thatnarrative on my own.
And so going into high school,transitioning into not just
being a player on a team, butbeing the player on the team was
like a dream for me.
And I I loved it and just wentwith it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:01):
So when you got to that school, um, you're you're
playing school ball, but you'realso playing club ball or AAU
ball.
And so recruiting starts tohappen and you end up landing on
a spot for college.
SPEAKER_03 (12:16):
Yeah.
So I had a couple differentoffers from smaller schools.
I wasn't really worried aboutthe division, but I was
excelling in high jump as well.
And so I wanted to go to aschool where I could play
basketball in the fall kind ofspring and then go into high
jumping.
So that ultimately led me toTruot McConnell.
I went in, watched a game, kindof clicked with the team.
(12:38):
I liked the coach, and so Icommitted.
And it's that's a funny story inand of itself because when we
sat down with the coach, it wasjust to learn more about the
team and like the program.
And so I sat down and I waslike, Coach, I think I'm ready
to commit to your team.
And my mom and dad were like,because we didn't talk about it.
I just did it.
And so we will we left that thatmeeting, and my parents were
(12:59):
like, Oh, I guess you're goingto true at now.
And I was like, I guess so.
I don't know why I felt a tug togo there.
I just, I was like, this fitseverything that I want,
everything that I see my futurelooking like.
This will get me to my goal.
And so I committed to true atMcConnell.
I um finished out my senior yearbasketball track.
(13:19):
My uh numbers were great.
And the summer before, this islike very pivotal from my story.
The summer before I went to trueat McConnell, I had gotten in
trouble with a guy just beingfoolish.
Um, because growing up, myparents had a rule that we
weren't allowed to date.
And so for some reason, I hadalways pushed back on that.
I don't know why that was such abig marker growing up that I was
(13:42):
like good in every other area,but for some reason not being
allowed to date just did not sitright with me.
And so I was always kind ofmaneuvering and being sneaky and
rebellious and trying to figureout ways of appeasing my parents
while also living in sin.
And so a lot of my convictioncame more from trying not to get
in trouble with my parentsrather than what does the Bible
(14:03):
tell me?
How am I supposed to live?
Um, so I got trouble.
I got in trouble.
My parents, you know, they theywere at their last straw.
So they took away my phone, theythey had me just going to work.
I was working at Chick-fil-A atthe time and I was going to
church.
My parents would drive me to andfrom.
I didn't have any devices.
And my mom was like, at thispoint, we don't know what else
(14:23):
to do.
So we're gonna extracteverything from you and kind of
give you this time to sit downin the quiet and the peace
before you transfer off, andwe're not there anymore.
So the whole summer, you know, Idid good, I behaved, I did what
I was supposed to do.
I worked, I got ready forbasketball, I trained, I played
summer ball, and I asked myparents if I could get
(14:44):
rededicated.
I was 18 at the time.
And, you know, my dad sat downwith me and talked with me.
And I wanted to make a publicstatement to everybody around
me.
There's a lot of periods in mylife where I disappeared from
everybody, and it was eitherbecause I was in trouble or
because what we'll get intolater, but I wanted to come back
out and be like, hey, everybody,I'm still me and I'm still doing
good, and you don't have toworry about it because my image
(15:06):
is still up.
And so I had gotten baptized uha couple weeks before I left for
college, and that was a publicstatement for me, not for the
Lord, to show everybody, hey,I'm still doing good.
I'm still living the life, youknow, that I claim to be living.
And so upon the first day ofbeing at Church McConnell, I was
just surrounded by temptation.
(15:26):
I had always heard the funstories of you meet your husband
in college.
And so that's immediately wherewhere my head went is oh, I'm
gonna meet my husband incollege.
So every guy that I ran intothat was remotely attractive, I
was like, oh, this could be him.
This is it, which totallysidetracked me from basketball.
Basketball at that point wasjust kind of like something I
was there to do.
It almost became a job.
(15:46):
It wasn't fun anymore.
It wasn't something that I hadcommitted my life to anymore.
It was something that I had toget through in order to
accomplish this goal that I had,which was to get married at the
end of college.
And so before I left, I told mymom, I was like, hey, you know,
I just want you to know I don'tthink I'm gonna be tempted
anymore.
I don't think I'm gonna beworried about my temptation.
(16:08):
And I think y'all, it'll begood.
You don't have to worry aboutme.
And my mom looked at me and shesaid, It's easy to not be
tempted when you're not aroundyour temptation.
And I was so angry at her forsaying that to me because I was
like, How could how dare you?
Like, I've been doing so good.
Why would you not give me therecognition that I deserve?
And then upon getting tocollege, she couldn't have been
(16:29):
more right.
SPEAKER_04 (16:30):
So Which also I went to a Christian college and I was
in a similar boat as you, likewasn't really living for the
Lord.
Yeah.
And I just thought, okay, if Igo to Christian college, then
I'll like get my ducks in a row.
I could not have been morewrong.
Yep.
I don't know if true it's thesame, but like the party culture
and everything like that isprobably just as much as like a
(16:51):
SEC school or like a stateschool.
And I was very shocked by that.
So I don't know if it's likethat.
SPEAKER_03 (16:58):
But so true, again, I was only there for a semester,
but my understanding of theculture is a lot of the people
there are true God-fearing, likeChrist-loving students.
Uh, but the thing that's hardabout truit is uh, and this
could be a rough estimate, about70% of the students are athletes
because there's so many teams.
It's a small school.
So everybody is just going intoschool, they're doing their
(17:19):
classes, they're doing theirtheir sports, and then they're
going back to their dorm.
And so the the the drinking washeavy for some people, a lot
more the boys' sports, but thethe culture was just very like
bloch.
And again, on my end, that's awarped view because I did not do
my due diligence at all to getto know people.
I really isolated myself.
I became a victim in my ownmentality and was like, nobody
(17:42):
wants to get to know me.
Coming from a background whereeverybody do knew my last name,
everybody cared about who my dadwas and what my athletic
abilities were, walking into ateam where nobody cared about my
last name or how good I was.
I was like the tenth man on thebench.
And I it was just such adifficult wake-up call for me.
And so my immediate route waswell, I'm not seeking attention
(18:05):
or uh glory or any praise inthis area that I had experienced
before.
So let me go the other route andgo back to the boys and back to
the mischievousness and the sinof that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:18):
It's interesting.
Uh the Christian collegedynamic, Christian college,
Christian University.
I think I have a couplethoughts.
Christian high school is thesame.
The hardest kids we work with atSnowbird are Christian school
groups.
And we have uh we do quite a fewChristian school events here.
(18:39):
So, like our summer camps, 80%of what we do at Snowbird is uh
student ministry, 20% is adultministry.
Um our summer camps are allchurch youth groups, the
majority of those kids arepublic school kids.
Um but then we run three weeksin the fall and a couple weeks
in the spring of Christianschool retreats, and they're the
(19:02):
hardest people to work with.
And um, you know, I've I'vethought at times that I had the
answer for why that is, uh, butI'm not sure I can really say
why.
I because a person that lovesthe Lord, loves the Lord
regardless of where they go toschool.
A person that's regenerate, thathas the Holy Spirit of God
(19:25):
living in them, is gonnaflourish at the University of
North Carolina, University ofTennessee, UCLA, whatever
whatever.
Big, huge 30,000, 40,000 studentsecular cool schools that are
assaulting the Christianworldview.
Like it is academia in Americafor 40 years now, 60 years, go
(19:48):
back to the 60s, has been in anall-out frontal assault on the
biblical worldview.
From sexuality to ethics to umtruth versus relativism, like
philosophically, scientifically,historically, the church is
under attack, the Christianworld worldview, the biblical
worldview is under attack.
(20:09):
But then you go to a Christianuniversity and there's another
thing that's working againstyou, and that is Christianity
always flourishes when it'sbeing squeezed.
When it's like persecutionalways creates flourishing in
Christian followers or in theChristian experience.
So if I'm a Christ follower andyou persecute me, you squeeze
(20:31):
me, there's a there's a visual,a word picture in the scripture.
When you squeeze something, andwhat you get out of that, like
for the believer, when yousqueeze them under the under the
pressures of persecution, Christcomes out.
Right?
Like and and and when Jesus isdisplayed, then that there's
where a person flourishes.
(20:51):
And so the Christian schooldilemma, a lot of a lot of
parents, I think, feel like if Isend my kid to a Christian
school, then then that's goingto be the answer, and it's not.
Now, I will say this if a aperson who goes to a Christian
school with the mindset of, Iwant to get a biblical
education, I don't want to dealwith Darwinian evolution, I
(21:13):
don't want to deal withhumanistic uh like secular
humanism in the classroom, thatthat could be some uh like a
really cool option, like okay,I'm gonna go.
Like I have two kids that haveboth got one's got a degree, the
other one's about to have adegree in in psychology and
sociology in secularuniversities, and it's awful the
stuff they endure, you know?
(21:35):
But uh as a believer, if you goto a Christian, a good Christian
school, you have the opportunityto flourish in your faith, but
you have to do the work.
Yeah, you have to be disciplinedand committed to make that
happen.
It's like you can work at a gym,but that's not gonna get you in
shape, right?
Yeah, you you like you got to dothe work.
(21:57):
And so I would just say topeople that listen to this,
parents that are thinking aboutsteering their kids in their own
education, or young people thatare trying to figure out where
to go to college, um, you itdoes not matter where you go.
The Christian life is put yourhand one on each side of the
plow, start grinding and do thatfor the next 50 years.
If you're at UGA or you're atTroop McConnell, you got work to
(22:21):
do.
Yeah.
And and you can find what youneed in terms of biblical
community, um, a solid church,campus ministry.
And I think Gwen's trajectory, Ithink that's all too common in
Christian schools.
SPEAKER_03 (22:35):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I think a lot of it at Truittspecifically was it was
Christians getting caught incomplacency because they're
going to chapel once or twice aweek.
They're doing their biblicalstuff.
There's no, there's no fruit,there's no heart posture, it's
just routine and ritual and oxchecking.
(22:55):
On the other end, we have aschool, I have a coach telling,
and this is no fault of his, butit it does take into account the
culture of Truitt, at least atthe time when I was there.
I have a coach telling me hepromotes biblical values, he is
driven to promote Christ on thisteam while I'm in a locker room
with girls who are in homosexualrelationships.
(23:16):
And so it's like, it's thiswatered down lovey-dovey Christ.
It's not our just God.
It's not our the God thatpunishes sin when you have to
face him one day.
It's the God that, oh, we'rework, you're forgiven no matter
what.
And so you can live in your sinfor the rest of your life.
So being surrounded in anenvironment like that, on top of
(23:39):
all my struggles that I hadalready had, on top of this
warped idea that I had where myexternal surroundings had to all
be lined up before I could workinwardly instead of the
opposite.
I had such a bad view of thatfor some reason, where the only
way I could do my quiet time atnight was if my whole day looked
good.
If my day didn't look good, Goddidn't want to hear from me.
(24:01):
And so that and it justmanifested itself into being
this tumbleweed of, well, I'mnever gonna be good enough
because I'm now on campus livingin sexual sin, being surrounded
by people who, unfortunately onthe basketball team
specifically, just were notliving their lives for Christ.
I mean, some were, but majorityweren't where they said they
were and they weren't.
(24:21):
And it's just this perpetualpattern of, and I don't think, I
think I had the the mindbiblical knowledge, but I didn't
have the heart posture, I didn'thave the Holy Spirit.
I didn't get convicted.
And so it was just such aconfusing time where it's like,
I know what I'm supposed to bedoing, but I don't really want
to do it, and I don't haveanybody telling me now that I
have to do it.
(24:42):
And so I just became complacentin that environment of still
getting to call myself Christianwhile not living for the Lord at
all.
SPEAKER_04 (24:48):
Yeah, I relate to that so much, like having all
the head knowledge but notunderstanding the heart
knowledge.
And last thing I'll say aboutlike kind of that cultural
Christian school, whatever.
I think obviously culturalChristianity, I think, is a
problem in America just already.
Like, but then I think at aChristian school, like you were
(25:10):
saying, I don't want to enableis not necessarily the term I
want to use, but lack for abetter word.
I think sometimes Christianschools can enable cultural
Christianity.
Yeah, they don't want to likecall anyone out for being
homosexual or call anyone outfor um drinking or getting drunk
or you know, sleeping aroundwhatever it is because they
wanna keep that lovey doveyChrist.
(25:32):
But then, like, versus if I wentto a big state school where my
faith is getting attacked,that's when I'm like, oh wait, I
gotta get my act together.
Like, is this what I believe oris it not?
Versus like a Christian school,it's just kind of like almost
like I feel like it has in somein some Christian schools.
I can't speak for everything,but my experience, and it sounds
like your experience has beenlike, man, cultural Christianity
(25:53):
in a Christian school seems likeway more than like yeah, like I
was scared to go to a stateschool because I thought, oh,
I'll go off the rails.
Versus like at college, it'slike it took me a long time to
get on the rails, you know, likebecause it was almost like
enabled, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (26:08):
Are you saying um so it's um like they almost like
they turn a blind eye, theydon't address these hard issues.
Yeah that was your experiences.
Yeah, uh just don't talk aboutit.
SPEAKER_04 (26:22):
I also think because same at my school, my college,
70, 80 percent of the studentsare athletes who a lot of them
came from different countrieswho were brought in.
And so they don't know the Lordat all.
They don't have any like realm.
They think religion they justhave different views, right?
(26:42):
And so I think in order to liketo bring them in, they would be
uberly kind or uberly nice.
And no one would sit them downand say, Hey, you getting drunk
every weekend is not fulfillingyou.
Like to them, they just thought,I can't drink, it's dry season
for swim, I can't drink, or likethey just didn't understand it.
Everyone would just kind of belike super kind, like Jesus
(27:04):
loves you, like, no, it's foryou can do that, you can sleep
around.
But no one would sit down and belike, Hey, wow, you know, and I
I feel like that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03 (27:13):
There's such a lack of accountability.
I mean, the scripture is soclear about when somebody is
doing something wrong, living insin, you approach them.
If that doesn't work, you bringsomebody with you.
If that doesn't work, you sendthem off.
And that doesn't just apply inthe church, that applies in any
environment that is trying touphold a Christ-like manner,
attitude, and heart posture,yeah, even in the schools.
(27:34):
And so when you find yourselflike we did at a school where,
and truth be told, I wasn't evena Christ follower while I was
there either.
So I fell into that camp ofpeople who claimed to be
something weren't, got torepresent that on campus.
And then it was just when youhave people like me and other
people representing Christ in abad manner, that's just that
(27:58):
becomes the culture.
And a lot of the times it'sblissful ignorance too, because
the professors and the coachesdon't know what's going on
behind the scenes, they just seehow you act in front of them and
they're like, that's good.
I don't even know if the coachknew that half the girls were
living in not only sexual sinbut same-sex sin.
And that has to be addressedhead on.
You the the points on thescoreboard cannot outweigh the
(28:22):
the convictions in the lockerroom.
And so that, yeah, that's athat's a big issue.
SPEAKER_01 (28:27):
Oh man, that's like a sermon that you just said.
The points on the scoreboardcannot outweigh the convictions
in the locker room.
Yeah.
That's man.
I what I think what I'm hearingboth of y'all say, what I what I
would say as a ministry leaderis we just people that are gonna
(28:49):
lead need to have a spine and abackbone.
And you understand that Grace,Grace has a spine.
We just did this three-partseries where I talked I told
that story about the young manwho I got an email from that
dude.
SPEAKER_04 (29:03):
Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:05):
Which is crazy.
Um you know who you are andyou're listening to this, and uh
I'm I'm gonna respond.
I've just been thinking abouthow I want to respond.
But in that it was a story wherethe or it was an episode where
the principle I was I was tryingto teach was you can forgive
someone, you can extend grace tosomebody.
(29:25):
In this context, as a coach or aministry leader or a professor
or a dean, you can be gentle andkind with people, but the gospel
cannot be softened.
Like it is what it is.
You and I remember this old uhlike Spurgeon or somebody used
this phrase.
No, I think it was uh um I'mgonna go off sc off screen
(29:48):
behind the camera.
Who's a dude that was uh he diJC Row, you know that name?
J C Rile was like uh that he wasthe last conservative head of
the Church of England, I think.
And he wrote extensively in thelate 1800s on biblical manhood.
And he referred to people asvelvet-mouthed preachers because
(30:09):
they had started to pedal areally soft gospel.
Or Dietrich Bonhoeff, who said,he said, we peddle grace like
cheap jackwares, in other words,like flea market items.
You go to you go to Goodwill andyou buy what when you go to
Goodwill, you're looking forhigh-end stuff for five dollars.
I'm trying to find somethingthat's I'm I'm trying to find a
(30:31):
hundred dollar item for threedollars, right?
I'm trying to merge these twoworlds where I get something
valuable for cheap.
The gospel doesn't work likethat.
The gospel is never cheap.
Grace is never cheap.
Grace cost Jesus his life,right?
And it costs me my life.
It just looks different.
That's why Jesus said, take upyour cross and follow me.
(30:52):
And so my word, listening toy'all talk about this, my
challenge to people, whetheryou're a dad, a mom, a
professor, a teacher, aChristian school principal, a
coach, if you are a Christfollower, do not cheapen grace.
But also extend grace.
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:10):
Because the flip side of it is don't become
legalistic and heavy-handed,right?
And so I, you know, it justmakes me wonder as we as we walk
through your story, like, man,if somebody just had a spine in
that world.
SPEAKER_04 (31:24):
Yeah, and I think a lot of times people are like
desperately looking for it.
They just don't like even thestudent body president at Carson
Newman University, a Christianuniversity, was gay and partook
in drag, and nobody nobody wouldsay anything about it.
Like it's just it's like I don'tknow, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_01 (31:42):
That's crazy.
SPEAKER_04 (31:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:44):
So uh Jeby touched on something.
International students pour in,and that's where I think your
story starts to kind of take acrazy direction.
SPEAKER_03 (31:53):
Yeah.
So I had met a guy, um, and youknow, we showed relative
interest in each other.
It wasn't anything crazy.
We didn't, we weren't dating,but we were pursuing an intimate
relationship outside ofmarriage.
And um every time I went and,you know, in involved myself in
(32:14):
sexual sin, I would leave and Iwould be like, man, I've got to
stop doing that.
That's not good for me.
That's not good for him.
It's just not.
I still had kind of that thathead knowledge, a little bit of
conviction, like this is justnot a good situation.
Nobody knew that I was doingthis with him.
And it I loved it.
Part of me, my flesh loved itbecause it was this secret that
nobody knew about, my parentsdidn't know about.
(32:36):
It was the one situation in mylife that I had control over.
It wasn't I didn't have controlover basketball, I didn't have
control over classes, and Ididn't even have control over
who I got to be friends with.
It felt like I kind of just hadto be friends with my teammates.
This was the one situation whereI could predict the outcome, I
could predict, at least Ithought, how this is gonna go.
It was self-fulfilling, uh, ourour needs were getting met, we
(32:58):
were receiving pleasure fromthis experience that we were
doing with each other, andnobody knew about it.
And so um, you know, we kind ofstayed in contact.
The first time that I realized Ihad never participated, well,
I'll just say I had never hadsex with somebody outside of
dating them.
And so while that's not even thestandard, to me, that was a
(33:19):
whole new level of of of sin inmy head of I'm now just hooking
up with this guy.
I'm not even dating him.
SPEAKER_01 (33:26):
And you would you would rationalize like if you're
in a relationship, you wouldrationalize it as, but I'm
committed to this person andwe're together.
SPEAKER_03 (33:35):
Well, I'm gonna get married, I'm gonna marry them
eventually.
So yeah, it was I had dated aboy in high school for two
years, and I I had lost myvirginity at 17 years old, and I
was like, Well, I'm gonna marryhim one day, and he was a
pastor's son, and so we bothwere able to compartmentalize
our faith, yeah.
Talk, talk, you know, pray afterand make it okay.
And it was such a manipulationof the scripture and what we're
(33:55):
yeah we're told to do.
And so the very first time meand him had been in sexual sin,
that next day we were in the umcafe, and so I like kind of
passed him and said hey, and hekind of just walked by me.
And I was like, Oh, like this isa whole new area where you're
not even gonna acknowledge me inthe daylight.
Wow.
So that was a and I immediatelywas so sad and so upset, and
(34:18):
then I was like, oh no, becauseeverything was a competition for
me.
I was like, You're not gonna,you're not gonna do this with me
at night and then act like youdon't see me during the day.
And so then I was like, you'renot, it was a game, you're not
gonna win this game.
So then I ignored him continuingon, and it became this thing
where we ignored each other inperson and then we were together
in private.
(34:38):
And so the last time that wehooked up, our safe sex method
failed, and we had a scare, andwe went and told two of our
friends who were um in the dormnext to us, and they were like,
Well, hey, you need to go get goget her a plan B and we will uh
pr pretend this never happened.
So he was a foreign exchangestudent, like you said.
(35:01):
He was on the team for soccer,the men's soccer team.
And again, that lined upperfectly because he's not even
from my country.
How much more secret can it get?
You know, my parents don't knowwho he is.
So he goes and gets me a plan Band I take it, and that was the
last time I've ever seen him wasthe night after our safe sex
(35:22):
method failed, for lack of abetter word.
So I go back to my dorm room andI'm just like sitting there
grappling with my experiencebecause every single person
who's ever found themselves inan unfortunate circumstance,
before the circumstance, tellsthemselves, this won't happen to
me.
Um, it won't happen to me.
I know it happens to otherpeople, it never happened to me.
So I just plead out to the Lordand I'm like, God, I'm so sorry.
(35:44):
I've been living my life likethis.
I I'm ready to get back ontrack.
I'm ready to start going anddoing these superficial things
that you've asked me to do againwhile still not changing my
heart posture.
So I go back to classes, I goback to basketball, I'm just
like locked in.
I'm like, I'm I tell him wecan't see each other anymore.
This is just, we got to cut itoff.
So he leaves, he goes over uhback to his home country for
(36:08):
Christmas break because theforeign exchange students got to
leave a little bit earlierbecause they had more travel.
And I started to not feel good.
This was around November of 22,early November, about the first
week of December.
I start to not feel good.
I'm in this is probably TMI, butI'm just like waiting for my
period.
I'm like, I've got to get myperiod, I've got to like, let's
(36:28):
get this ball rolling, let'smake sure officially,
officially, that we're good.
I can continue back my life howI have laid it out to be.
And tell me if I'm being toolike cryptic in my wording, I
can be more.
Okay.
I don't know how the how detaily'all get and stuff.
Um, so I call my friend fromhome.
Her name's Jaden, and I waslike, hey Jaden, can you please
come up here for the weekend?
(36:49):
Let's like let's hang out.
And Jaden kind of knew thesituation.
I'd been keeping her up with thethe situation with this guy.
So Jaden comes up for theweekend, and I'm just telling
her, like, hey, I'm about twoweeks, three weeks late on my
period.
And she's like, you need to takea pregnancy test.
I was like, I can't.
And she's like, what is thatgonna do?
If you take it and it'snegative, we'll know.
If you take it and it'spositive, we'll know.
(37:11):
It's not gonna change thesituation.
But for some reason, I just wasso against because I didn't want
to have to face the truth ifthat was it.
So she walks into this Walgreensbecause Truth's in such a small
town, and I'm like, I'm not,you're not gonna catch me in
there buying a pregnancy test.
So I send her in Walgreens orCVS, whatever it was.
We come out, we go to a Wendy'sbathroom, I take the test,
(37:32):
immediately it shows up twolines.
And so I start laughing becauseI am in such a headspace where
my sin has been socompartmentalized.
I'm like, this is like there'sno way this is not real.
So I immediately go on Googleand I'm reading, like, oh, you
know, if a woman's dehydrated,it might come up positive
(37:52):
positive.
If she's eaten too much,whatever, it's positive.
And I'm like thinking, okay,this is a false positive.
You know, I'm about to eat myperiod, that's why it says
whatever.
So Jaden has like thismanuscript of like the pregnancy
test paper, and we're likereading it, like it's that
confusing if it's positive ornegative.
You know, we're like, okay.
So we go back to my dorm room.
Well, I tell two of myteammates, the one that I had
(38:14):
met the night of that told us weshould get a plan B and another
girl.
Well, on the if you if anybodyknows anything about a plan B,
it's an abortive facient, whichmeans that it's even if the
sperm enters the egg, it canstop it from attaching to the
uterine wall, which in itself isan abortion.
Yes.
But I was under the impressionit was just your last resort to
not just not get pregnant.
SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
And it's uh there's a window, like a time frame.
SPEAKER_03 (38:39):
Yes, there's a 72-hour time frame, so it says,
but if you're ovulating, itdoesn't, it almost helps, it
almost helps the egg attach tothe uter wall.
So I was ovulating at the time.
So I was like, I didn't knowthat that was just gonna
increase the chances of beingpregnant.
But you did take Yeah, I took itwithin 12 hours of the incident.
And so I was like, Oh, I'm good.
There, I'm in the green, we'regood.
So I take the pregnancy test, Igo tell these other two girls,
(39:02):
they're like, hey, let's all gotogether because they've taken
tests before, you know, and theywere like, let's go together,
let's go to Walmart, we'll getsome tests, we'll figure this
out.
So Jaden's in the car, she's inthe front, these other two girls
get in the back, and then thisother girl gets in the car.
And I'm like, What in the world?
Like, I'm trying to keep this onthe low.
I do not want my sin aired out,and some random girl is getting
(39:24):
in the car.
I was so upset.
SPEAKER_01 (39:25):
You didn't know this girl.
SPEAKER_03 (39:26):
I didn't know her.
I didn't know her.
And I had recognized her,obviously, small school, but I
have never had a conversationwith her, wasn't friends with
her.
So I turn around and she tellsme her name is Zoe.
I was like, hey, I'm Gwyn, I'mpregnant.
Do you want to go get some testswith us?
And she was like, Yeah, sure.
So she had already kind of beenbriefed on the situation.
So we drive to Walmart,everybody's giggling, frolicking
(39:46):
around, having a good time, andI'm just like, This is surreal.
Guys, like this is serious.
And it was weird because I waswith them on the fun of it, and
then I was like in the back ofmy head, like, well, no wonder
you're having a good time.
This isn't you that's pregnant,you know.
And I knew, I knew in the backof my mind that I was pregnant,
I just wasn't willing to acceptit yet.
(40:07):
So we go, we kind of playpregnancy roulette where every
girl takes a test just tocompare, because we knew some
people were gonna be negativefor sure.
So we lay them all out, and mineis just like, oh, immediately.
It we didn't even have to waitthe three to five minutes.
And so I take myself around thecorner and I sit down, and I had
told the dad from the firstpregnancy test, I sent him a
(40:28):
picture.
I was like, hey, this is sayingI'm pregnant.
What do you want to do?
And he immediately said, You gotto get an abortion.
And growing up, I hadn't reallyheard about abortion.
You know, I knew it was bad thesame way I knew sex and drugs
were bad.
I didn't know why, I didn'treally know what it what it
entailed.
And I knew I was against aprocedure.
My conviction was I'm notgetting a procedure, but then he
(40:51):
introduced me to the abortionpill.
So I thought, well, that's thesame thing as the plan B.
That's fine.
SPEAKER_01 (40:57):
Okay, until right now, I thought that was the same
thing.
SPEAKER_03 (40:59):
Yeah, no, completely different.
Okay.
So the plan B is the so condom'skind of the plan A.
Plan B is this actual pill,that's what it's called.
And then they call it a plan Csometimes to avoid the abortion
word, which is abortion pill.
It's called methapristone.
And it terminates it terminatesyour pregnancy.
Pregnancy.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (41:18):
Yeah.
Plan B, correct me if I'm wrong,just makes it a hostile
environment for the sperm andthe egg to meet.
Yeah.
But plan C or this abortion pillliterally kills the fetus.
Kills the baby.
SPEAKER_03 (41:31):
Yep.
You can take it up to 12 weeks.
SPEAKER_01 (41:33):
Um so the whole first trimester you could take
this pill.
SPEAKER_03 (41:36):
Yep.
And there's some there's some uhplaces in the US that will
prescribe it up to three thethird trimester.
There are women who have the theFDA right it's not FDA
regulated, which means it cancross state lines, it can be
given to minors.
There is so much uh justmalpractice around the abortion
pill specifically, and that isthe leading cause of abortions
(41:59):
right now because of theoverturning of Roe versus Wade
and a lot of the heartbeat billsin these states, women can't go
in and get abortion proceduresanymore, but now they can get
the abortion pill.
SPEAKER_01 (42:10):
Okay.
So you get so first trimester.
If you if you are pregnant, youcan you get this pill, you have
to get it prescribed, or you'resaying you can't.
SPEAKER_03 (42:22):
Yeah, you can just go in.
SPEAKER_01 (42:23):
I that's where you're saying that even you
cross state lines and go get it.
Yep.
Also you just go get it.
SPEAKER_04 (42:28):
A lot of things with abortion and planned parenthood
and everything like that, theywill advocate.
Like let's say I brought in a16-year-old girl and was like,
hey, she's pregnant, I needsomeone to get me an abortion
pill.
Their little workers wouldsomehow go get it, find it, and
get it.
Like they will advocate and findways because this is their
crusade.
SPEAKER_01 (42:47):
Yep, yeah.
This is their this is theirpurpose, their crusade.
Let's get this baby aborted inthis 16-year-old girl's belly.
Yep.
And so you could just get thatpill, you take the medication
and it terminates the pregnancy.
SPEAKER_03 (43:02):
You can order online.
There are websites.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (43:05):
So then when you do that, then do you pass that
baby?
Yes.
I'm assuming.
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (43:09):
So you were told you were instructed by the either
website that you buy from or theclinic worker that you meet
with.
You're gonna have a couplecramping, it's gonna feel like
your period.
Do not just don't look in thetoilet, just keep flushing, and
you'll be good.
There's testimonials of womenwho have looked in the toilet at
10 to 12 weeks and have seentheir child's limbs in the
(43:32):
toilet and have hemorrhaged.
There's story, there's a recentstory out of Texas where a man
bought an abortion pill, crushedit up, put it in his
girlfriend's drink, she drank itand passed the baby.
Because there's no regulationsaround this pill.
Anybody can get their hands onit.
This is the number one thingthat sex traffickers use to keep
women from, the young girls tokeep them from getting pregnant
(43:55):
is they just push out thisabortion pill.
It's disgusting.
And if it was FDA regulated, itwould have to be stripped off
the market because the turnoverrate of people that experience,
I don't know what the number is,I think it's like less than 2%,
something like that.
The turnover rate of people thatexperience fatal outcomes, the
women themselves, it is sodangerous.
(44:16):
And so we can get in this later,but thank God I didn't because
who knows if I would even behere if I took that pill, much
less my daughter.
But it is so dangerous.
There is so much malpracticearound it, it's disgusting.
SPEAKER_01 (44:31):
Man, I'm I'm a little embarrassed to say I
didn't know any of this.
SPEAKER_04 (44:35):
Well, um honestly, rightfully so, because they do
such a good job of disguisingit.
Yeah, you wouldn't know.
You know, like even in highschool, a lot of my friends
would take plan B and I did notknow like I remember when I came
to Snowbird in high school andthere was an abortion breakout,
it lit my butt on fire.
Like from that moment, I've doneresearch because they do such a
(44:56):
good job of disguising it tomake it seem like like even
birth control.
This this might be a hot take,and I know a lot of people do
not agree with me, but I thinkbirth control is if not, it like
I think anything that makes thewomb a hostile environment is
abortive.
Absolutely.
And I think even if it's not,even if somehow you tweak it and
(45:17):
say, Well, no, this one doesn't,it's still supporting a an
abortive company.
Yeah, it's an abortive it's anabortive facient.
SPEAKER_03 (45:24):
All birth control is an abortive facient.
SPEAKER_04 (45:25):
And there's no a lot of people don't agree with that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (45:28):
Which okay?
That's so that becomes uh and II am familiar with this debate
even within evangelicalChristian circles, there's a
debate over that.
Sure.
What is what would be allowed,what would not be allowed.
But you said this has become thenumber one form of birth
control.
SPEAKER_03 (45:48):
Absolutely.
And that's why when when you sayto somebody who you're debating
with, oh, abortion, abortion'sthe number one leading cause of
death, and they say women aren'teven getting abortions at high
numbers anymore.
It's because they don't mark theabortion pill as an abortion.
So you don't know.
I think it's something like1,600 lives per day.
Babies are passed due to theabortion pill.
SPEAKER_01 (46:09):
And that number doesn't get counted in abortion
statistics.
SPEAKER_03 (46:12):
Because it's not the procedure.
SPEAKER_01 (46:14):
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_03 (46:15):
Because you can just hand it out.
We don't know how many peopleare getting these every day
because you can just give it toanybody.
Men can get it, women can getit, kids can get it.
SPEAKER_01 (46:23):
Does it uh if if somebody goes to get it, does it
cost them money?
SPEAKER_03 (46:28):
So, from my understanding, when I so I I
again I talked to the father, wecan get back to this because
this will answer your question.
I talked to the father, he waslike, You need to get an
abortion.
Well, I go and I look it up,it's$600 to get an abortion.
And then I look up the abortionpill, which was introduced to me
by him, and I see that it rangesfrom about$300 to$150.
(46:51):
I don't know what it would looklike, the cost.
A lot of these PlannedParenthoods will give it to you
for free if you go in.
Because while they are anonprofit, they get taxpayer
money from the government.
Yeah.
So they don't have to chargepeople for these things.
SPEAKER_01 (47:04):
Which that is could be an entire episode where we
talk about funding of PlannedParenthood.
Um, yeah, like m like a fewyears ago, that whole thing,
that undercover thing where theywere selling baby parts and that
could be its own disgustingepisode.
SPEAKER_04 (47:22):
It's bad.
SPEAKER_01 (47:23):
Okay, so all right, let's let's Yes.
So he this is what he'sencouraging.
SPEAKER_03 (47:28):
Yeah, so he's like, you've got he's freaking out.
He's like, I can't tell myparents I got some girl in
America pregnant, like you'vegot to get an abortion pill.
And he wasn't saved at the time,and so it was a I I I fought I
had so much anger towards him atthe beginning, but I understand
because I also was like, yeah,let's do it.
Like, let's get the let's do thepill.
So I go and I talk to the girls,and they're like, well, you
(47:49):
know, they didn't reallyencourage me to do it, but they
also weren't saying that's not agood idea.
They were like, that's what youwant to do, that's fine.
And so I went and I called everyhospital and clinic within an
hour radius, and I was like, Doyou carry the abortion pill?
All of them said no, because theheartbeat bill had just gotten
signed.
I believe it was in 2018 byRandy Robertson in Georgia.
I was at four weeks, so I had upand I had two weeks to make this
(48:11):
decision before I wouldn't haveany other options unless I was
gonna cross state lines.
And so I eventually went and gotonline and found a Planned
Parenthood in Atlanta.
It was about an hour and a halfaway from Truett.
And I made an appointment.
I didn't have to talk to aperson, I didn't have to tell
them I was pregnant.
I just went online.
I put in my name, my birthday,when I want to do my
(48:34):
appointment, and what I'mlooking to get.
And I submitted it.
And I had my blocked schedulefor me to walk in and get an
abortion pill.
SPEAKER_01 (48:41):
And how fast did that turn did you get
confirmation from them when youit was immediately.
SPEAKER_03 (48:46):
Immediately I literally just had to go on the
website.
Yeah, I just put in the timethat I could come in.
They showed me the slots thatthey had.
I chose what I wanted, I put myname in and I submitted it and I
was on the schedule.
Wow.
And so immediately I'm like, ohwell, I I have a conclusion to
this problem.
I'm good.
I I didn't want to go.
A lot of times when I tell mystory, I emphasize how impactful
(49:10):
this was for me.
But I knew in the back of myhead I was doing something
wrong.
But I had dehumanized anddevalued my daughter so much to
the point where I didn't evensee her as a human anymore
because she didn't have aheartbeat.
Her brainwaves weren't going.
She was still a clump of cells.
It's my body.
This will ruin my life.
I'm not financially stable.
I'm not with the father.
(49:31):
I had all the excuses torationalize this decision in my
head.
And I was just pushing them overand over to myself to convince
me, hey, this is okay.
You're doing okay.
You will look back at this andbe thankful that this is what
you did because you have abasketball career ahead of you.
So I'm sitting in this room.
I found myself convenientlyenough, not wanting to be by
(49:52):
myself, shocker.
I'm in the worst situation thatI've ever experienced.
So my friend Jaden, she's, youknow, trying to like pick at me
a little bit, like, hey, are yousure?
Like, you know, she showed methese lyrics to this Nicki Minaj
song where Nicki Minaj hadtalked about getting an abortion
and how um she regretted it.
And I was, I just, she was tooclose to the situation for me.
(50:14):
I just couldn't hear.
So she eventually goes home andI'm sitting in the room with my
two basketball friends and Zoe.
The two basketball friends leavebecause they have other stuff to
do.
So now it's just me and Zoe.
So I was so desperate to be incompany.
SPEAKER_01 (50:27):
Zoe's the girl you didn't know.
SPEAKER_03 (50:28):
Yes.
Yeah.
I was so desperate to be incompany that I'm sitting in a
room with a girl I met threedays prior, and we're just
sitting there and we're chattingand we're talking, and I was
like, all right, well, I gottago back to my room.
So I'm packing up my stuff.
And she's like, Hey, can I talkto you for a second?
And I was like, Yeah, sure.
And she's a pastor's daughter aswell.
I didn't know that at the time.
And she said, Hey, I I want youto know that although I don't
(50:53):
personally understand whatyou're going through, I know
people that have gone throughwhat you're going through.
And I'm also a pastor'sdaughter, so I cannot imagine
what this has been like for you.
But you need to know that theLord has considered you now and
forever a mother.
Because that baby is in yourstomach, you whether you get
(51:14):
this abortion or not, you aregoing to be a mom.
And you have been chosen to takecare of this baby.
This is your DNA that is growinginside of you.
And this baby was made in thelikeness and image of Christ.
And if you go and get thisabortion, you are killing what
God has created.
(51:36):
And I was like, What the heck?
SPEAKER_01 (51:39):
Were you mad?
SPEAKER_03 (51:40):
I was pissed.
I was like, How dare you?
How dare you tell me what to do?
How dare you try to hold Christover my head?
How dare you try to speak into asituation that you are not a
part of?
So I just start bawling and Iwas like, look, I get it, but I
just can't.
I'm sorry, I can't.
So I go back to my dorm, I go tosleep.
The next day we have practicebecause so this was the day that
(52:02):
me and Zoe talked.
We have practice, and then wehave our last basketball game on
December 16th.
SPEAKER_01 (52:07):
Before the Christmas break.
SPEAKER_03 (52:09):
Before the Christmas break.
So I had I had planned, here wasmy plan.
I was gonna I had scheduled theabortion pill to go pick it up.
I had practice game.
I was gonna tell my parents Ihave to stay an extra day for
practice.
I was gonna have one of myfriends drive me to the clinic,
get the pill, come back, takeit, and then go home for
Christmas break.
SPEAKER_01 (52:29):
All right, stop.
Let's stop right here.
SPEAKER_03 (52:32):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (52:33):
We're at 50 minutes.
This will keep people are gonnabe so mad.
They're gonna have to wait aweek.
SPEAKER_00 (52:44):
Thanks for listening to No Sanity Required.
Please take a moment tosubscribe and leave a rating.
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Visit us at swoutfitters.com tosee all of our programming and
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We'll see you next week on NoSanity Required.
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