An Athlete’s Identity Crisis and an Unexpected Pregnancy | Part 2

In this Part 2 episode, Gwyn picks up right where she left off—right after whispering to her teammate, “I’m pregnant.” She shares candidly about the fear, shock, and sense that her life was beginning to unravel.

We follow Gwyn through her hidden months at home and the way Scripture, research, and a refusal to take easy answers slowly shaped her path toward open adoption. She opens up about the doubts and questions that surfaced as her due date approached and the weight of the decisions she had to make.

Now, watching her daughter flourish, Gwyn steps into advocacy with conviction and grace. This episode offers an honest, hope-filled look at unplanned pregnancy, the reality of open adoption, and the courage it takes to choose a future bigger than fear.

An Athlete’s Identity Crisis and an Unexpected Pregnancy | Interview with Gwyn Andrews

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Alrighty, y'all.
Welcome back to NSR.
This we are just gonna followright up with the part two of
Gwen's story.
Um, I really hope you guys haveenjoyed the last episode of
Gwen.
Um, she is just amazing, so wellspoken, and she's just a
go-getter.
I really, really enjoyed thisepisode and was just encouraged

(00:21):
to just hear from her.
And yeah, she's amazing, youguys.
Um, you if you missed last week,I'll link it in the description
below.
You're not gonna want to miss uhthe part one of this story of
Gwen's interview.
Um, but yeah, thank you guys somuch for tuning in.
Love you guys.
It's been so encouraging to justhear feedback from all of you
guys.

(00:41):
Um, but yeah, I hope you enjoyand welcome to No Sanity
Required.

SPEAKER_00 (00:51):
Welcome to No Sanity Required from the Ministry of
Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters,a podcast about the Bible,
culture, and stories from aroundthe globe.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02):
Okay, so let's just pick up where we left off.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06):
Yeah.

So I was making the decision (01:06):
am I gonna go to this appointment?
Am I gonna tell my parents Istay for practice, or am I gonna
go home and figure out what todo?
So the next day we had practicethe day before our basketball
game.
And this girl named Millie, whoI was absolutely best friends
with, I loved her.
She was uh four years older thanme.
She was a fifth-year seniorwhile I was a freshman.

(01:27):
She was married.
She just like looked like shewas like doing good.
She loved the Lord.
She was really a good role modelfor me.
I fell in love with her becauseshe reminded me so much of me,
but she was like what I wantedto aspire to be.
And so I for some reason I feltlike I needed to like tell her
what was going on.
And so in the middle ofpractice, mind you, we're doing
suicides.
I whispered to her and I waslike, hey, I'm pregnant.

(01:48):
And she's like, she just looksat me and she laughs because she
doesn't know, like nobody knew Iwas fornicating, like a grief.
And so she was like, Well, let'stalk after practice.
And I was like, Okay, so shecomes to my dorm room with me.
I laid out the situation, I toldher about the dad and kind of
where his head's at and thedecision that I'm getting ready
to make.
And she said, Well, why?

(02:09):
Why are you trying to make thisdecision?
And I said, Well, the biggestreason, number one, is because I
don't want to lose myscholarship, but also I can't go
home and tell my parents this.
Like prototypical pastor'sdaughter, 19 years old, gets
pregnant.
Great, I'll just be anotherstatistic.
Like, I can't do it.
And so she sits me down and shewas like, Hey, um, she tells me

(02:31):
privately, I've had herpermission to share this since
then, that three months beforethe season had started, she had
had a miscarriage at threemonths and she was getting ready
to tell the coach she couldn'tparticipate, and they were
getting ready for this baby, andthey were so excited, and then
she had a miscarriage.
And I remember she startedtearing up, and I remember
sitting there mourning with her,tears coming to my eyes about

(02:52):
how she had lost her baby andhow it put it into perspective
for me.
I'm mourning with this woman whohad no control over the life of
her baby, and it was taken in inhowever you want to explain
that, the the baby passed away,and now I'm telling her that I'm
about to go to do the same thingwith my baby by choice, and I'm

(03:13):
about to pay for it.
Like, how sick is that?
And so she, her and Zoe, Zoekind of like hit me.
Zoe had that spine, like wetalked about, that Christian
spine to clock me when I neededit.
Millie just kind of addedanother layer onto it.
So both of these girls reallyopened my eyes to the fact that
this isn't just a clump ofcells, this isn't just a

(03:35):
happenstance situation.
This baby is my baby.
I am the mother of this child.
I have been chosen to protectand love and care for this baby.
And I just couldn't get that outof my head.
After they both made me realizethat I'm a mom, that's where
everything clicked for mebecause I so desperately wanted
to be a mom my whole life.

(03:56):
I think most girls do.
They they desire that.
It was just in the wrong timingfor me.
And so because it was wrongtiming, everything else went out
the window.
So I don't, a lot of this isfuzzy.
I think I compartmentalized.
I remember playing my lastbasketball game, which is so
crazy to think about that I wasplaying a basketball game
pregnant.
And then I drove home and Ididn't go to the appointment.

(04:17):
I never canceled it, I justdidn't show up.
And upon the first, uh, I don'tremember the timeline, but I was
at home for about a week and ahalf.
I think I had about a two-weekbreak.
And I was telling my parents,um, you know, I'm not feeling
good.
You know, I didn't know thatmorning sickness was a symptom
of being pregnant.
So I was being an idiot againand just like getting sick and

(04:40):
throwing up and like I couldn'tkeep my food down and I'm like
losing weight at this point.
And my parents are like, what'sgoing on?
So we thought it was a stomachbug, and then we thought it was
food poisoning, and then my momwas like, Well, we might need to
take you to the doctor because Ithink there's something else
going on.
And so I remember sitting there,it was about three days before I
had to go back to tru it for ouruh spring season practices.

(05:02):
And I remember telling my umtelling I was praying to the
Lord and I said, God, I can'ttell my parents.
I need you to tell them.
I can't do it.
I'm not gonna be able to do it.
I tried multiple times.
I don't even know how to muster.
They didn't know I was havingsex, much less at the point
where I would be in a positionto be hooking up with somebody
and now pregnant, still keepingin contact with the father.

(05:23):
I told him I wasn't going to theappointment.
He was frustrated at that time.
And so I get in the car with mymom and my sister.
We go to drop off my sister ather friend's house.
And I'm like, Mom, mom, I needyou to get home.
Like, I'm not feeling good.
I'm about to throw up again.
And she just turns and looks atme and goes, Are you pregnant?
And she was kind of joking.
And I said, No, what?

(05:44):
That's crazy.
And I was like, Gwen.
So in my head, I'm like, Oh mygosh, the Lord literally just
answered my prayer in less than24 hours, and I just spat in his
face again.
So guess what?
Now I have to tell them.
So now I've prayed for anopportunity.
I've been given thatopportunity.
I said no.
And then I said I now have to dowhat I didn't want to do.

(06:04):
So we get home and I look at mymom and I just start tearing up
and I said, I am.
And she said, You're what?
And I was like, I am pregnant.
And she was like, No, you'renot.
And so they again, they that wasjust crazy to them.
She was like, She comes and hugsme.
She still kind of thinks I'mjoking.
And she said, Well, who's thedad?
And I told her his name, and shesaid, What's his last name?

(06:26):
And I said, I don't know.
And so my dad comes in the roomand he's like, What's going on?
And so my mom tells my dad, andmy dad's like, what?
And you know, he's like got hiscoaching voice on, and he's
like, How could you let thishappen?
Like, I don't understand.
And to my surprise, this was oneof the biggest things I was
worried about.
I thought, right when I told myparents they were gonna kick me

(06:48):
out, uh, that would be it,because I wouldn't have faulted
them for doing that.
I was at my last straw.
I had put them through so muchthe last couple of years, the
way that I was living my life.
This was this was to beexpected, unfortunately.
But they sat there and after,you know, my mom pulled my dad
aside and they talked, they theyprayed over me and they were

(07:10):
like, let's reconvene in themorning and figure out what
we're gonna do.
So me and my mom stayed up allnight talking.
I had to unpack everything, likefrom high school on, everything
I had involved in, everything Ihad participated in when I was
vaping, when I had tried weed,like all the things that I had
done, I I laid it out for them,which you would think would be

(07:31):
awful, but it was the most likeit felt like a weight was lifted
off my shoulders.
Like I'm I'm sad that they'redisappointed in me, but I feel
seen now because I'm not hidingbehind all of this sin.
And so me and my mom and my dad,we had kind of come to this
conclusion that I was gonna goback.

(07:52):
I would hopefully be skinnyenough to finish out the season.
Nobody would know.
In the winter, I would wearbigger outfits, and then in May,
when I would come home, I wouldtell my coach, hey, I'm not
gonna be coming back to tru it,and then I would give birth in
August and we'll figure it outfrom there, which is a really
bad plan, but you don't knowwhat you're gonna do.
You have 72 hours to figure itout.
So we're sitting there and mymom's like go, she has the

(08:14):
mother brain, and she's like,what if she has a complication?
What if she gets hit inbasketball?
And then now we have amiscarriage, like we're putting
this baby up to be in asituation where it's just not
safe.
It's not safe for me, it's notsafe for the baby.
If I go into labor and nobodyknows I'm pregnant, that's like
that's gonna be crazy andtraumatizing for everybody
involved, not just me.
So we decide that we're gonna goup there and tell my coach that

(08:37):
I'm not gonna be on the team anylonger.
And I knew my coach, it was big,big, big for him to be a part of
the team and kind of to likelike play your part, play your
part, and if you can't play yourpart, somebody else will.
So I kind of played on that.
I went up, me and my mom, we gotin the car, we drove out there
the day that I was supposed tohave practice to reconvene back

(08:58):
on campus.
I text my coach, I said, Hey,can I meet with you before
practice starts?
So we we drive up there, I sitdown with him.
Again, I'm like still trying notto like throw up in his office.
It was just an awful experience.
I look pale, drained, I'mskinnier than when I left.
And I sat him down and I said,Hey coach, I uh I really

(09:19):
appreciated the time that I'vespent here.
And I am so thankful for theopportunity to play college
basketball with you, but I don'tthink that I'm gonna be able to
contribute to the team in theway that you want to see.
And I think that my positionwould be better filled by
somebody who can give you whatyou're looking for.
So I kind of tried to make himfeel like I was doing him a
favor, you know.

(09:40):
And he was like, All right,well, I, you know, I hate to
hear that, but he was kind ofgetting used to it because a
couple girls had left forinjuries, other girls had
transferred.
It's normal, like you know, it'snormal for people to be in and
out of the athletic arena in insports in college.
And I got up from the meetingand he said, Well, all I'd love
to still see you around campus.
And I was like, Well, I'm notcoming back to True It.

(10:01):
I'm going home.
And that was kind of the end ofour conversation.
And I walked downstairs and hemeant he went and met with the
team on the court, and everybodywatched me as I walked to the
locker room and I gathered allmy stuff up and I didn't say
anything to any of my teammates.
Three of them obviously knewwhat was going on.
Um, and I I gathered my stuffand I walked back out to the
car, and me and my mom drove,packed up my dorm, and we left.

(10:24):
Didn't tell my roommate why Iwas disappearing.
Then I my team started textingme and saying after practice,
we're so glad we got to meet youand it's been great.
Like, we hope that everythingworks out.
And I'm just like in a I'm in athree-hour car ride with my mom.
We're not really speaking, andI'm getting text messages from
my former teammates and coachesabout how they're gonna miss me,

(10:45):
and they just think I'm taking adifferent direction in life when
I am literally pregnant.
Like it is, it is the mostout-of-body surreal experience.
It was so disheartening.
It was so sad to think that Ialways joke that there needs to
be an AA class for students whoplayed sports their whole lives,
and then like the next day theywake up and it's gone.
Because there is an identitycrisis there where I had from

(11:10):
first grade on committed myentire life to playing on this
team.
My life goals had been fulfilledin in one night because of my
sin and rebellion.
It all disappeared and was alltaken from me, or I gave it up,
for lack of a better word.
So we drive home and we unloadmy stuff and we're all just kind
of sitting there like, what arewe gonna do?

(11:31):
Well, still reflecting onself-image.
I told my parents, I do not wantanybody to know.
Again, I'm a pastor's daughter,this whole town knows me, my
whole high school, everybody'saware of who we are and what we
do.
I do not want anybody to knowI'm pregnant.
Do not tell anybody, like,please, for the love of
everything, until I can figureout what I'm gonna do.
I had decided, you know, in theback of my head, I was gonna go

(11:52):
move to Florida.
I love the beach, move toFlorida, I'll raise my son or
daughter, and we'll just likefigure it out from there.
Maybe I'll meet a nice guy whowants to be a stepdad.
Like, I just kind of accepted.
I'm gonna be single for the restof my life.
My life is gonna look that of asingle mother, and that's it.
And so that's kind of how Ioperated.
And my dad hooked me up with anonline counselor through a

(12:15):
church in Atlanta, and I was soagainst like talking about my
problems because I thought I hadit all figured out, a little bit
of narcissistic tendency.
I was just like, I don't needanybody to tell me what I'm
thinking and feeling.
I know it.
It's just I need to implementit.
So from the very first uh Zoommeeting I had with her, I looked
at her and I was like, hey, youcan try to talk to me and we can

(12:36):
sit here for 55 minutes and youcan get paid, but I'm not gonna
open up to you.
Like I have nothing to talk toyou about.
My dad has me here.
So if you want to talk, we can,but like it's you know, if you
just want to like get off andget paid, like that works too,
because I'm not here to talk toyou.
Well, obviously that's not howit went.
She was actually a blessing tome, but just just just to show
my mentality in those times.

(12:56):
And so eventually my parentswere like, we I had kept in
contact with um my daughter'sfather, and I had let him know,
hey, I'm home now.
I've told my parents, I thinkit's time you tell your parents.
So eventually he mustered up thestrength to tell his parents.
I don't really know what thatlooked like.
I can only imagine how much morefrustrating it was for them.

(13:18):
It's almost an they're out ofsight, out of mind.
I had so much anger andresentment towards him for so
many reasons, the way that hekind of acted during the
pregnancy and just the perpetuallike nagging of what's going on,
how's everything going, likewanting to see pictures of the
bump.
And I realized later on, aftereverything put into perspective,

(13:40):
he didn't know me either.
You know, like the same way Ididn't know him, he didn't know
me.
I could have been lying aboutbeing pregnant.
I could have been lying abouthim being the dad.
Like he had cause for concern,and I didn't realize that until
later of like we were both insuch a terrible, terrible
situation.
So eventually, fast forward, youknow, I'm doing online

(14:00):
counseling.
Well, my mom has a friend whoworks on the Board of Covenant
Care Adoptions.
And this this lady, her name'sJoe Betsy, she's an amazing
lady.
She kind of is like my adoptedgrandma.
She told my mom, hey, have Gwencome in and talk to some of the
birth counselors just to kind oflike assess where she's at and
have her walk through heremotions.
And I went in, you know, just toappease my mom.

(14:23):
Because I'm like, at this point,what else could I do to this
point?
My parents, the least I could dois go meet with this lady.
Again, still just not in themindset of wanting to have
conversation with people.
And this lady said, you know, weare here to support women who
find themselves in unfortunatesituations, and we're gonna walk
with you through your pregnancy,whether you decide to do
adoption or not.

(14:43):
And so immediately I'm like,great, I get to use y'all, your
resources and your financesafter I give birth to this baby.
All I've got to do is upkeepthis relationship.
So it's still very transactionalon my end.
And I thought adoption was dirtyand bad and secret and where you
get rid of something you don'twant.
That's how I viewed adoption atthat time.

(15:05):
I didn't have a very goodworldview of it.
And so I was like, I'm not doingthis.
So I go home the next couplemonths.
I really, really, really thinkthat the we we all know God's
timing is so intentional, butthe way that my heart was
hardened from the moment that Icame home to a couple months
later in my pregnancy, of it wasalmost as if I was at a spot

(15:29):
where I had to fully surrendermy life.
There wasn't a time where I waslike, God, will you please
forgive me of my sins that comeinto my heart?
But it was a perpetual overtimeof every morning waking up and
doing my quiet time because whatelse am I gonna do?
I'm living at home.
Nobody knows.
My team doesn't know what I'mdoing, my old friends don't know
what I'm doing, and my people athome don't know what I'm doing.

(15:49):
I just literally, like Bertiesaid, I had disappeared from the
outside world.
And I'm like, well, the veryleast I could do is read this
book that everybody's claiminghelps their lives.
Like, so I'm doing my quiettimes, and this is where I
really start to get into my dadloves podcasts.
And so I'm like, well, dad, canI have a couple podcasts to
listen to?
Because I'm like trying toappease my dad, like keep that

(16:09):
relationship.
And so I start listening tothese political podcasts, and I
fell in love with this.
I was eating it up.
I started reading books, which Ihated doing before.
And so 24-7, my day looks likewaking up eating as much eggs as
I can because uh eggs were my myfood of choice.
I guess you wanted some protein,um, reading my my quiet time,

(16:33):
listening to a sermon, or just arandom sermon I could find.
And then the rest of the day isgoing to be hardcore reading,
studying, podcast, learning.
I don't know where that camefrom because I had hated doing
that prior, but I truly justfell in love with my faith, with
the Lord and the the tiesbetween culture and society.

(16:55):
And I wanted to know for myself,it was a lot of self-reflection.
How did I, who, as somebody thatgrew up in the church, number
one, end up in this situation,number two, almost get an
abortion, not really know whatabortion was.
And then number three, it tooklike it took this experience to
get me to finally say, Allright, Lord, you can have my

(17:16):
life.
Like it shouldn't be like that,you know.
And I know that we're we'rewe're we're in a fallen world
and we have sinful nature, butthe way that my life had was
laid out, God had given meeverything I needed to succeed,
and I just kept spitting it backin his face.
So I wanted to understand that.
And so I started reading a book,and in the book, the first

(17:38):
chapter, it talks about thenuclear family and how important
it is to have a mom and a dad.
And these statistics, it wasprimarily focusing on the black
community, but the the numberswere so high that I knew for any
other ethnicity, it had to befairly the same, like relatively
the same.
And it started talking about thethe things that you were putting

(18:00):
your child to be moresusceptible to just by being a
single mother, even if you havethe finances, even if you have
the community, even if this isgonna be the best life this baby
will ever have, solely by thefact of me being a single
mother, these are the thingsthat my child is gonna be more
susceptible to.
And I was like, this can'tpossibly be reality.
And so I dug more into it.

(18:22):
This is where I found CharlieKirk and Ali Bestucki and all
these influential people.
And the more that I listened tothese people, the more they just
kept honing in on almost all thecultural issues we face right
now, biblical issues, spiritualissues, are because of the
nuclear family is being brokendown.
So I was like, I cannot put mydaughter in this position.

(18:43):
And I didn't know what thatlooked like.
I didn't know, I was like,there's just gotta be another
option here.
Well, I remembered, you know,the adoption option.
And so again, I'm still incommunication with her dad this
whole time.
We're going through, I'm liketalking him through, like, hey,
I'm considering adoption.
I think that, you know, I waslike, do you want to get
married?
And he's like, no, we can't dothat.
And I was like, okay, so nowhere's our next option.

(19:06):
And so I uh I start meeting withthis counselor more and more.
I'm learning about the process.
My heart is being a little moresoftened.
I'm understanding that the waythe adoption was back then is
not how we do it today, and thatthere are a lot of changes that
are taking place to make it bemore beneficial to the child.
And there is a couple, Jeremyand Sharon, who Jeremy's a

(19:27):
pastor at Southside, and Sharonwas one of my assistant
basketball coaches.
I grew up with them.
Uh, they're like my aunt anduncle.
And my parents invited them overand they saw me and my belly,
and my parents made me sit downwith them and tell them what was
going on.
And so I was so angry and I satthere and I was like, I'm
pregnant.
And I that was it.

(19:48):
And and Sharon said, Well, whatare y'all gonna do?
And I was like, I don't know.
My parents are thinkingadoption, but I don't want to do
that.
I'm not letting somebody elseraise my baby.
And so I got up from thatconversation, I walked off,
everybody's tearing up.
I'm stone cold because you'renot stone cold, like absolutely
not, you're not gonna see mecry.
I walk off and I felt, I feltGod like kind of like hit me in

(20:11):
the chest.
Like, you seriously think thisis your baby?
Like, this is this is my baby.
Like, I have given you thisbaby, but this is my child first
before it's ever been yourchild.
And for you to sit there andproclaim what you're gonna do
without confiding in me first,like, no, so let's redirect
this.
And so I go back in and I'm likepraying and I'm still doing my

(20:33):
quiet times.
And the more and more that Iresearched and I learned, and my
heart was softened, the more Ijust felt God speaking to me and
saying, you know, like, hey,adoption, adoption, adoption.
And so I learn more about it.
And eventually I go to my momand dad and I say, I think I'm
gonna move forward with thisplan.

(20:54):
And so we get the father onboard.
You know, he was apprehensive atfirst because it's not
culturally relevant for me.
It's definitely not for him.
Like, they don't do that downthere in Argentina, like that is
not a thing for him.
And so we kind of walked himthrough it, and I I learned more
about it.
And uh, there is just somethingso like beautiful and spiritual

(21:17):
about adoption.
We are adopted into the kingdomof heaven.
There's so many relations toadoption in the Bible that I
think the church completelymisses.
The fact that Joseph had toadopt Jesus, he wasn't his
blood, he didn't have to bethere, he didn't have to partake
in that.
The fact that Jesus entered intothe world through Mary, who was
young, who wasn't ready, whowasn't financially stable, and

(21:38):
the Lord still used thatsituation for good.
Not that my situation evencompares, but there are just so
many correlations to like we areadopted into the family of God,
and adoption should never be adirty word.
And for some reason it was, andso I'm rambling, but I learned
more about adoption and Ieventually made a commitment to

(21:58):
the agency that I wanted to moveforward, and I was given me and
her dad had agreed that wewanted to do a family that
hadn't um had an opportunity tohave kids.
And so we were given five books,which are profiles of families
who've been with the agency.
They are vetted, they areChristian, they have house
checks, like everything aboutthese people.
You know, the agency has donetheir due diligence to make sure

(22:19):
this is going to be a safe,welcoming, loving environment
for this family.
And so they lay out these books,and it was it was so it's such a
crazy, I can't even explainbeing in a situation where I'm
sitting there, I'm six monthspregnant, and I'm looking at
books to pick the family thatI'm about to give my child to.
Like when you look at that onits face, there's no other

(22:42):
explanation than the Holy Spiritand the Word of God because that
is such a foreign concept.
That's not normal, you know, andso that's it just shows me more,
and hopefully I can showeverybody else like how much the
Holy Spirit and my faith playeda part in this decision, because
that is not something that youshould just like be able to do

(23:03):
on a whim, is just pick a bookof people and say, Oh, here you
go, here's my baby.
And so I'm there's these threecouples, they all are single,
unable to have kids, but therewere little things like this
family had a golden retrieverand I'm allergic to dogs, so I'm
worried she might be.
This family's in Metro Atlanta.
I don't want her growing up inthe city.
This family has a mom thatteaches ballerina.

(23:24):
Well, I want to make sure she'sin basketball because both her
parents are athletes, so youbest believe she's gonna have a
ball in her hand.
So I'm like, okay, not thesepeople.
And so I get down to these twobooks.
Well, these people, they hadadopted numerous, numerous kids,
and so I was like, well, they'rethey're taken care of when it
they we we don't need them.
Well, I get to this last book,and I had initially not worried
about this book.
Well, I I look at it and it isjust immediately.

(23:48):
I mean, I when I've never in mylife, I've felt tugs and like
convictions.
I've never in my life felt whenpeople would say the Lord spoke
to me.
And I didn't hear a voice, butit was literally like a light
was on this family, and it waslike, this is it, this is the
family.
And so I'm looking at them and Isee they've got, you know, a

(24:08):
beautiful blue house with afront porch, and in the back is
an American flag.
So immediately I'm like, oh,they're they love America, like,
let's go.
So I open it up, and on thefirst page of each profile is a
letter that each family writesto the birth moms.
All birth moms read the sameletter.
And the very first sentence ofthis says, Whether you decide to
do an open adoption or to parentyour baby, we're so thankful

(24:31):
that you chose life.
And I remember thinking, how inthe world?
Again, I know multiple mothershave been in my situation and
have read this sentence, butthis sentence that they wrote on
this book 10 years ago isspecifically speaking to me in
my situation.
So I read more about theirfamily, I read about their their

(24:52):
vacations and the and theirgrandparents, and I just see
like this is the ideal familythat I would choose if I was to
get married right now and layout a life.
This is what it would look like.
And so I just knew this is thefamily.
So I handed it to the birthcounselor.
I was like, I want them.
Do not let any other birth momlook at that book.

(25:13):
Nobody else is getting them,they are my family.
And so I talked with the dad andI kind of showed him all the
books, and eventually me and himboth agreed that would be the
book.
So uh we worked together throughthis whole process.
And I asked my birth counselor,please tell them.
Um this is about six months in,please tell them that they're
getting a baby.
And they can't because nine outof ten birth moms change their

(25:35):
mind after the baby is born.
And so she didn't want to givethis family false hope.
And she still thinks that Idon't know what I'm gonna do.
But once I made that commitmentto the agency, I knew there was
no way I was changing my mindbecause it's not about me, it's
about what is best for mydaughter.
The best situation for her is tobe in a two-parent Christian
household with people that areready and equipped to have a

(25:58):
child, and at the center of thisfamily is Christ.
And while I would have been agreat mom and her dad would have
been, it would have been funwith her dad being able to visit
her and my family growing upwith her, that is not how the
Lord has envisioned a family tolook like.
And so while this isn't aperfect solution, it is a good
solution to a broken situation.

SPEAKER_01 (26:19):
And so Wait, when you say change their mind, do
you mean they just want to keepthe baby when like birthday?

SPEAKER_03 (26:26):
Yes, so yeah, so I can get into that more, but they
have 72 hours legally to changetheir mind after the baby's
born.
Okay.
And so into those 72 hours, 90%of mothers decide to parent.
Okay.
Um, and so after I put them onhold, me and my mom went to
Texas for a month, the seventhmonth of my um pregnancy, so I

(26:46):
could be out and about and likeactually be a part of
civilization.
We have tons of family that livein Texas.
And so I remember going out inTexas, and me and my mom were at
this gas station.
And this was my very first timewalking around in public with my
belly.
Wow.
It was I remember it vividly.
There was this black woman atthe counter of this gas station,

(27:07):
and she goes, How far along areyou?
And I didn't, I just was likedoing my own thing.
And my mom was like, Hey, sheasked you a question.
I forgot that people could seethat I was pregnant because I'd
been in secrecy for so long.
I didn't realize that otherpeople can see this too.
And so I looked at her, I waslike, Oh, I'm seven months.
She's like, Is it a boy or agirl?
And I was like, Oh, it's a girl,and she's like, Congrats, and I
was like, Congratulations.

(27:29):
Like, you have no idea what I'mgoing through right now.
And so it just put so much intoperspective of you don't ever
know what somebody's goingthrough.
Like, this woman iscongratulating me on the hardest
thing that I've ever been a partof.
And although I am so thankfulnow looking back that this is
the the turn that my life took,like, congrats, what in the

(27:52):
world?
And so I we we had such a hardtime being in Texas with our
family because I think for myfamily, and I say this, I say
this lightly because I don't, itmight sound I don't want to, I
don't want to assume, but a lotof my family history comes from
broken households, not twoparent households, a lot of

(28:12):
marriages in and out on bothsides, my mom and my dad.
And so I think for my extendedfamily, me choosing adoption
meant me saying you did thewrong thing because my dad was
born at a young age, 16, withhis mom.
She wasn't married, a lot ofmarriages, a lot of husbands in
and out.
Same thing with my mom.
Her parents had experienced adivorce when she was in college,

(28:33):
and so I think to Mike's andfamily, I said, you did it
wrong.
And so there was a little bit ofresentment there.
There was so much likeexplaining of, hey, this is why
I'm doing this, this is why it'sa good idea.
No, you can't take this baby.
Like I had family membersoffering to parent the baby.
Well, let's just keep her in thefamily still.

(28:54):
Like, let's just make sure thatit was like a very uh selfish
perspective of, well, we want tobe able to see her.
Well, what about us?
And I'm like, well, you don'teven take the time to see me, so
why am I gonna go out of my wayto make sure that you can see
your grandkid, you know?
And so not my parents, but likeextended family.
And so I say that to say thateven in being so sure of the

(29:16):
decision that I was gonna make,I still was um like debating and
arguing and rationalizing thiswith my family members.
Like when you are following inaccordance with the Lord's will,
it's not gonna be easy.
Even your own family is gonnapush against that because people
don't understand unless theyfeel that conviction too.
And so eventually we leaveTexas.

(29:39):
I come home.
I go in, I'm due on August 12th.
I this this could be a wholenother episode talking about the
uh the malpractices in themedical industry under um
pregnancies.
But, anyways, I'm due on August12th.
I go in August 18th, so I'mabout 40 weeks in one day.

(30:00):
And I go into labor and I wantedto do a natural birth.
I was like, my mom did three,like, my mom's not stronger than
me.
I'm gonna do a natural birthtoo.
And so I got up to eightcentimeters and I was like, hey,
I'm ready to push.
Like, let's go.
And they were like, you're notdilated enough to push.
And I was like, okay, well, whatdo we do?
Like, this is my first time.

(30:21):
I don't know.
But it was cool because the ladythat was delivering my daughter
was um also delivered my sister.

SPEAKER_01 (30:28):
Wow.

SPEAKER_03 (30:28):
And so she was very familiar.
So a lot of people probablywonder, like, have questions
about the OB GYN situation.
So we went into Macon, which isabout 45 minutes uh, I believe,
north of Warner Robbins.
Is that right?
Yeah.
So we went to a place in Macon.
We had shared with this lady whowent to our church, delivered my
sister, my situation.
She had experience with herfamily uh doing adoption as

(30:49):
well.
So she's very supportive.
So when I would go to my OBappointments, I would go around
the back hallway.
They would clear out the hall tomake sure nobody was there.
I would go into the room, theywould shut the door, and then
they'd let everything proceed.
Because we had so many peoplefrom our church going to the
same place.
We didn't want anybody to know.
So my records, they would havemy name covered, they wouldn't
announce my name out there.

(31:10):
I would always go in through theback.
So even in those, it was a veryisolating like imagine I'm 19,
I'm walking into this OBGYNappointment with by myself
because my family's busy.
I've like got my shades on, ahat, like trying to make sure I
don't run into a church memberon the way through the back
doors.
I gotta call my OB, tell herthat I'm here.

(31:31):
It was just, yeah, people don'tunder, and again, I I I'm not a
victim to this situation becauseI I created this, but people
don't understand the extent thatwe as a family went through to
get to this point.
So, anyways, so I'm going intolabor and my midwife said, Hey,
you know, you can either do aC-section or we can get you an

(31:52):
epidural because your daughter'sstuck in your birth canal.
You're like, I just I guess Iwasn't it wasn't working.
And so I asked her if she couldstep out of the room for a
second.
And I talked to my mom because Iwas so scared of getting an
epidural because I had read somuch about like I wanted to get
back into basketballimmediately.
And I had read how epidurals candelay your healing and how you

(32:13):
know it could partially not workor it could mess up your spine
or just a lot of thingssurrounding that.
And I was like, mom, mom, Ican't, I don't want a C-section.
That sounds awful.
I know sometimes it has tohappen, but I just didn't want
that.
But I also didn't want epidural,so I had to figure out what to
do.
I I decided to cave and get theepidural.
Um, and immediately I like likerelaxed and my body was able to

(32:36):
go into labor fully.
And I went in to the hospital atlike 12 p.m.
or 12 a.m.
that night, and then I gavebirth at 11 a.m.
that morning.
So it was like very quickturnaround of my birth, my
labor.
Well, you know, my my auntCarrie was there with us, my mom
was there, my dad came in, andmy best friend Jaden, who was
there when I found out that Iwas pregnant, actually was doing

(32:59):
clinical rounds at the samehospital.
And so she was able to come inand meet my daughter.
And I had jokingly um asked mymidwife and all the nurses,
like, what should I name her?
Because me and her dad decidedwe didn't want to name her
because we knew she'd be renamedwith her new family.
And they said, Oh, name herSophia, because my midwife, who
had a sister, had lost a babynamed Sophia.

(33:21):
And so I was like, Okay, so Inamed her Sophia Kaylee Andrews.
My middle name was still Kaylee,or my middle name's Kaylee, so
she had the name.
So I spent three days in thehospital with her.
I got to feed her, my familycame to see her, um, my nana
came.
People that knew what was goingon were able to come in and see
her.
And then on the last day at thehospital, my um the agency came

(33:45):
in, my birth counselor andanother lady, and I had to sign
papers terminating my rights tomy daughter while I'm holding
her in my hands.
And so that was a really hardexperience.
And so uh it it seems very likesuperficial, but when you
realize like I am signing likethe chemical, the way that the

(34:07):
Lord has made our bodies toattach to these babies, you
won't understand until you'veexperienced it.
And so the attachment that I hadfelt to her throughout the
pregnancy, I'd compartmentalizedbecause I knew eventually I'd be
parting with her.
But then after she was born andfeeding her and like hearing her
cry and getting to change herdiaper, and like to the extent

(34:28):
that I was even, I didn't sleepwhile I was in the hospital
because to me, sleeping was timelost with her.
So I stayed up for 72 hours thewhole time, even when she was
sleeping, I was awake because Ididn't want to lose any second
with her.
So I signed these papers.
She left the hospital with mybirth counselor, I left the
hospital with my mom.
I went home and we just grievedin the best way that we knew

(34:52):
how.
And the next 72 hours, so afterI signed that paper, I
terminated my rights and I said,I will move forward with
revocation.
The revocation period is the 72hours that you were legally
allowed to change your mindbefore your rights as a parent
are officially terminated by thestate.
So for the 72 hours, I was ableto see her from 7 p.m.

(35:14):
7 a.m.
to 7 p.m.
The interesting thing with theagency, we were kind of their
first case because a lot of thebirth moms, unfortunately, are
in uh uh sexual assaultsituations or drug addiction or
trafficking or just really badsituations where they just want
to get the baby out, get thebaby to help, and then leave it.
Well, we were like, no, we wantas much time as we can get with

(35:34):
this baby.
And so they kind of had tofigure out like, what are the
rules around letting this familysee her?
And they knew I wasn't gonnachange my mind.
So I saw her for the next 72hours.
We did a family photo shoot.
My brother took photos of me andSophia.
Um, we had a lot of the staffcome over that we had shared
that we were going through.
We celebrated my 21st birthdayor my 20th birthday because our

(35:58):
birthdays were three days apart.
And so it was a really, reallylike cool experience.
Like this, the the grace thatGod had over that time with me
and her, just allowing me tosoak up everything and kind of
prepare my heart also to knowthat eventually we would be
giving her up for adoption orplacing her, I should say.

(36:21):
Um, but the revocation periodwas like those are the three
hardest days of my life becauseI'm spending the whole day with
my daughter, excited, having agood time, and then she leaves,
and then I'm sitting there bymyself, like I kind of kept it
together for my family, but Iwould go on our back porch and I

(36:43):
would just sit there and prayand be like, God, am like, am I
making the right decision?
Like, I'm giving my child up.
Like, how can that make anysense, you know?
And I uh every time, it's sofunny because every time I would
pray and be like, God, I can belike I'm like, I'm like

(37:03):
bargaining with the Lord.
I'm like, I'm gonna be a goodmom, like I'm sure I'll get
married eventually, and thenshe'll have a dad, and then like
it's fine, and it'll be good,and I'll be able to take care of
her.
And he kept bringing back to mybrain or my mind, you're not
doing this for you, you're doingthis for her.
Because every situation thatkept me from doing adoption was
about me and what would be bestfor me and not best for her.

(37:24):
And so eventually uh my timecame to an end.
But what's cool about it is Idon't know the specific time
frame, but let's say three daysbefore the revocation had ended,
again, this family still doesn'tknow that I've chosen them.
So they get a call like 24hours, and they're like, hey,
you have a baby.
So the mom calls the adoptionagency.

(37:44):
Again, they've been waiting 10years between foster care and
miscarriage and adoption.
They had been waiting foranother another child.
She said, Hey, you know, we havethis opportunity to foster this
little boy.
We just want to know if anybirth mom has even remotely
shown interest in our book,because if not, we're gonna take
this little boy in.
And my birth counselor was like,I can't tell you anything, but

(38:05):
do not take that little boy.
And so they told the foster, Idon't know how the foster care
system works, but they toldthem, like, unfortunately, we
can't take this baby.
And so now they kind of got theprerequisite, like, hey, start
getting it together.
So they got a crib together,they got all this stuff
together, and then 72 hourslater, they were handed a baby.
And I got to see a video of mydaughter being placed in the

(38:28):
arms of her parents for thefirst time.
And it was just so there, youwould think it's a sad
situation, but there was so muchoverwhelming joy.
And redemption is the word thatI like to use for my story
because or the Lord's story,because there's so much
redemption in my experience, inmy daughter's life, in this
family's life.
And the funny thing was we went,me and my mom eventually her

(38:50):
name was changed.
Um, but they kept Kaylee as hermiddle name.
And so me and my mom were atWendy's.
Wendy's plays a big part in mystory, which I don't know why.
I'm I love burgers, but so we'reat Wendy's the day that uh
Sophia gets placed with afamily, and we're watching this
video and we're crying, and welook up what the name Sophia
meant.
And Sophia means wisdom.

(39:11):
And I knew that it was nocoincidence that in the three
days that I needed the mostwisdom in my entire life to make
sure that I could follow throughwith in accordance with what I
believe the Lord was calling meto do, that my daughter's name
was wisdom.
And so uh what open adoption, Iwant to be clear that it we we
did open adoption.
So open adoption is legallytwice a year.

(39:33):
The family and me get to have ashared time.
We call it a visit where I gettime to get to know them, they
get to know me, and then I getto play with my daughter or see
her or whatever.
Well, we kind of removed theagency within a month.
So she was placed in August.
By September, we already had ourfirst visit.
It's supposed to be every sixmonths.
They reached out, they werelike, hey, we want to meet this
family ASAP.

(39:54):
And we were like, we would loveto meet y'all too.
Like, let's do it.
Because again, I've never metthem.
I just know them from their bookin a one video I saw.

SPEAKER_04 (40:03):
Did they know anything about you?

SPEAKER_03 (40:05):
Yeah, they know as much, they know that I played
basketball, that they know aboutthe dad a little bit, and they
know that I'm a pastor'sdaughter.
And that was pretty much it.
They didn't know about my story,about what I had gone through.
They didn't know that if I had afamily that was intact or that
was broken.
They didn't know any, like not alot of details, right?
So we meet, and usually forthese visits, the family has an

(40:30):
advocate, which is the personthat makes sure they're
qualified to have a baby, andthen the birth mom has her
counselor.
And so it was my family, theirfamily, and then the two people.
Well, that was probably thesecond to last visit that we
would have where the covenantcare people would be with us
because eventually weimmediately created a
relationship with them.
And so now we are at a spotwhere like I just saw her last

(40:52):
Sunday and she's two, and I seeher, you know, February and
August legally, but then we doMother's Day, and I went to her
baby dedication at their church,and I've met her family, and we
do birthdays and Christmas, andit's just like I'm a fun aunt.
And obviously, that's not likepicture perfect, but open
adoption.

(41:13):
I get to watch my daughter growup and I get to play a part in
that instead of her calling mewhen she's 18 and saying, Hey,
are you my mom?
Yeah, because her worldview isbeing shaped early on, she will
understand adoption is not dirtyor bad.
You were not given away.
Your mom and dad sacrificedtheir pain and discomfort to put

(41:35):
you in the best situationpossible for your like the most
prosperity and fruitful lifethat you could have.
So she'll grow up knowing that.
She'll grow up knowing me andher dad.
He gets equal access visits,grandparents, everything.
Um, and like we have justcreated this amazing situation
where Aunt Carrie reminded me soamazingly that I didn't lose my

(41:57):
daughter, I gained a whole newfamily because they have played
such a pivotal role in my lifemoving forward.
And I could call them right nowand be like, hey, can I drive up
there and see her?
And they're like, Yeah.
And that's not going to be forevery situation, that's not
going to be for every openadoption, but for this
specifically, it has been soamazing and redemptive.

(42:18):
And not that my goal in life wasto get back to basketball or to
get back to being a collegestudent, but my life today looks
the same in a sense that it didprior to getting pregnant.
Because I know that's a lot ofwhat women advocate for abortion
is well, my life's gonna blowup.
My life, I'm gonna lose my life.
You're not, it's gonna be betterthan you ever realized whether

(42:39):
you are parenting or you do anopen adoption plan or whatever,
whatever that looks like foryou.
There is no there is nosituation in the world where a
child will ruin whatever youthink you have going for you.
And so yeah, I can kind of leaveit there and let y'all ask any
questions that you have.

SPEAKER_04 (43:00):
Well, that last two statements, both your personal
statement of that your life isyou know, richer and fuller, and
and then to follow that bysaying there's not a situation
where a child is gonna mess yourlife up.
If you and if you choose to notlet that be the case.

(43:21):
Um it is a story of redemption,and it is a gospel parallel.
It's um it's just you know thethe adoption motif in scripture
is very personal to me, umbecause of my family dynamic,

(43:42):
um, both with multiple sistersand then with multiple children.
And um and I've watched uh I'vewatched the Lord take very hard
and difficult situationspersonally and and bring about a
greater good.
And this past summer ourteaching focus at Snowbird was

(44:06):
his glory, our good.
This is one of those stories Godis being glorified in this
little girl's life, and one dayshe's gonna profess faith in
Jesus, you know, and she's gonnatell this story, and I love what
you said about um you're notyou're not gonna get a phone

(44:27):
call from an 18-year-old youngwoman saying, Are you my mom?
Yeah, she knows you and you knowher, and and and what praise the
Lord for this couple that isbigger than this situation, you
know.
It's like they're that'ssomething that I think uh that
little and I have really havereally been uh we've thought a

(44:53):
lot about, but our situation isvery different, um, because the
the biological mother passedaway.
And but in our situation, uh wehave every plan to to travel and
meet family, but it's aninternational situation.
And I think a lot of people arescared to death of their kid

(45:14):
that they've adopted, beingconnected to their biological
family.
And I learned from my mom thatyou don't have to be scared of
that if God's the one writingthe story.
One of my sisters is veryconnected to her biological
mother.
The other one, they come fromthe same biological mother, the
other one won't really haveanything to do with her.
Um, but my my mom was always sogenerous with that.

(45:38):
And anyway, uh my you know, Ijust think of this couple, what
a blessing that the Lord broughtthem into your life.

SPEAKER_03 (45:45):
And yeah, oh they I mean, truthfully, they have been
even little things like um I ifI want if I was married, I want
to homeschool.
They homeschool their kids.
They I this is great.
I don't know if I told you this.
Um, I didn't want any vaccines.
I said no vaccines while she'sin the hospital.

(46:05):
Once I signed my um rights away,she now belonged to the state.
And so the state had to followtheir calendar of vaccines.
Well, this family had alsoadvocated to the agency after
the mom vaxes her, whatever,once she belongs to the state,
we don't want her to get anyvaccines.
So both parties had consented tono vaccines.
So ultimately she didn't get oneshot.

(46:27):
And so it was little things likethat that I didn't know that I
didn't read about that, but theLord like divinely brought those
together to where we now get to,in my opinion, have the
healthiest baby that we couldpossibly have.
Yeah.
Like I couldn't breastfeed her,obviously.
They gave her goat milk, uh shedidn't have to do formula, and
so there's just so many littlethings that mattered so much to

(46:49):
me as I grew more understandingof like history and uh like
society and culture and allthese things that we're given
that just aren't really good forour health and nature and
biology.
And this family like is on theexact same wavelength as me, and
I didn't even know that.
And so that was a big part tooof how we we connected and we
meshed so quickly was becausewe're like, okay, we we're cut

(47:12):
from the same cloth.
I just unfortunately took adetour and then got back, you
know, got back on track.

SPEAKER_01 (47:18):
So also like praise the Lord for this family, like
we've been saying, but also kindof what Bertie was saying like
that takes a humble familyabsolute have like open
communication with you becausehow quickly it could be to be
like, well, no, like she's ourdaughter, like you've we're
raising her.
Yeah, but I love that, like justtheir humbleness to let you in.

SPEAKER_04 (47:36):
And they got uh they got a pile of kids.

SPEAKER_03 (47:39):
They've got three.
Okay, yeah, three.
So she's she's got three oldersiblings.
Um, even two, like when I was attheir house on Sunday, like we
just go over to their house, mywhole family.
We have lunch, we brought mybrother's girlfriend with us so
she could meet her for the firsttime.
And um, they'll probably came tomy testimony when I shared my
testimony for the first timepublicly to my congregation back

(48:00):
home last March, March 2024.
They came to that.
Everybody got to meet them,everybody got to meet Sophia.
But even like if Sophia willsay, Um, mom, mom, her mom will
look at me and go, which one ofus is she talking to?
And so she just like there's nocompetition at all.
And that's it's interesting thatyou brought that up because I'm
sitting here thinking, like, isthat a thing?

(48:21):
I've never I didn't even knowthat was a thing.
Yeah, because they do such agood job of not like that's not,
it's just not.
And so, yeah.
About the father of Sophia, ishe a believer?
So this, I'm glad you broughtthis up because this is
something I definitely wanted tohit on.
He was, I believe, professingCatholic at the time, didn't

(48:42):
really have faith.
Um, while I was pregnant and wekind of worked through while we
were working through everything,I I I kept telling him the
reason I feel called to do thesethings is because the Lord this,
the Lord that, God this, Godthat, the Bible says he just
didn't really understand that atthe time.
Well, eventually he got baptizeduh with his soccer team at the

(49:02):
school, and then he went home inArgentina, and I believe that he
got baptized again.
And so now he is like, I like tosay that this situation saved
three lives.
My daughter's life and mine andhis life both were saved by
grace through faith.
Yeah.
And not that getting baptizedsaves you, but like his heart
posture changed and he wanted tomake like do that act.

(49:23):
And so now he, as far as Iunderstand and the communication
I've had with him, is living hislife for the Lord.
He fully and wholeheartedlyrecognizes that Sophia is what
saved his life.
And he, like after she was born,he sent me this long text just
like apologizing for everythingand saying that he's so thankful
that I stuck with it, and Iapologized to him and told him,

(49:44):
I'm sorry for being angry withyou.
I didn't know who you were.
I I was angry that you weretrying to play a part in this,
even though you are half of partof this, and so there's just
been so much uh forgiveness andredemption that's come through
this situation.

SPEAKER_01 (49:58):
And even not to say that the Lord couldn't use this
if you did go through withterminating the the baby, your
child, but also it kind of goesback to what we were saying,
like that spine, yeah, likehaving that spine and you just
being so obedient and so openabout that, and just saying,
like, hey, this is whatscripture says, this is what the

(50:19):
Lord is calling me to do, andbeing so open with him.
I like the Lord clearly usedthat.
Absolutely.
So praise the Lord for yourobedience, and uh yeah, it's
really cool.
Thank you.
I really love your story.
That's awesome.
Yep.

SPEAKER_04 (50:32):
I w uh I want to say one thing.
Um, we're we're about to wrap uphere.
Um, I want to hear kind ofupdate on life from you.
Okay.
Like just what's going on, whatwhere you see the Lord taking
you, just as a young womanthat's got purpose and vision
and a calling.
And um, but I want to say to umI always try to do this, even

(50:55):
when I speak to abortion andadoption and parenting and um if
there's like there's if ifthere's a mom, there will be
moms who listen to this who havehad abortions.
If I I can write off the top ofmy head know of three like that.
And I just want to remind you,your redemption story will look

(51:16):
different than this story.
But there's there's there's noGod's grace is bottomless.
What he's able to redeem um maynot look the same.
Um but but the Lord hasredemption, and um, and so I
just I want to say that I don'tI don't want this to be a story

(51:38):
that that brings guilt or shamewhere the Lord would bring
redemption.
But that being said, I want thisto be a message for that teenage
pregnancy or that young singlegal that's pr that's pregnant.
I want you to that that hearsthis or our listeners that that
push this or send this episode,this story to somebody.
This baby is worth fighting for.

(51:59):
Yes.
And and there's red it mightright now seem like there's no
way.
I mean, you spent six monthsholed up in your parents' house.
You talk about a quarantine,yeah.
You're losing your mind.
I mean, uh, you know, we we allhave a sense of what was it like
during COVID to be stuck in thehouse for a couple weeks.
For me, I I made it a we made itabout a week, and I'm like, we

(52:20):
gotta do something.
You know, for six months youwere it was you, and and and
those walls were squeezing, andbut but we see the redemption in
hindsight.
Our hindsight is still not evenas perfect as God's foresight.
Yes, and so whatever you'regoing a person might be going
through, there's redemption.
Trust the Lord, and and um Ihope that this story is

(52:42):
inspiring because this umrepeatedly Gwen said this is not
about me.
Yes, and I want people to hearthis story is a bigger story
than one, two, three people orthose of us that are listening
to it.
It's a God story, and um, and sothe Lord will bring redemption
in any situation.
I'm so thankful for that, andI'm so confident of that.

(53:04):
And I'll tell you this it'sanother conversation for another
day, but the flip side of it isum if you're considering
adoption, give me a call.
You better buckle up because itis it is a hard, hard path
forward to raise children, andand I know it, and we're living
it, and it is difficult, it isnot easy, it is not it is not

(53:25):
don't romanticize it.
What when you when you when Godcalls you to be the parents that
adopt, he's calling you tosomething that is you can't even
imagine how difficult it's gonnabe.
But also, it's it's it's a storyof redemption.

SPEAKER_05 (53:39):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 (53:40):
Um so anyway, yeah, I'd love to hear what what are
you doing?
Uh you know, you're involved inturning point USA.
Uh I call you're one of thefirst people I text when I found
out Charlie Kirk had been shot.
Yep.
Um I'm sure your phone blew upby people like me.
But um so you're you're stillinvolved with turning point.
Yeah.
Um you've you're wrapping upyour degree.

SPEAKER_03 (53:59):
Yep.
Yeah, I'm at the University ofWest Georgia right now.
I'm the founder and president ofTurning Point USA chapter on our
campus and the students for lifecamp uh chapter, which is the
pro-life chapter we have.
Um I'm an SGA, a senator forstudent government on campus.
I'm the uh female captain forthe hype squad with Turning
Point, which is we're basicallyin charge of having the mosh pit

(54:22):
at each conference.
We get all the all the kids upat the front and we jump around
and we're in all the picturesand stuff.
Um and then I'm uh I justofficially got um granted the
opportunity to be a pro-lifespeaker for an organization
called Leadership Institute.
So now I'm able to travel toother college campuses and share
my story.
And so a lot of a lot of mylife, I this is a hot take.

(54:45):
I hate school.
It's probably not a hot take.
I think school is the dumbestthing ever.
I'm I'm only doing my degree inorder to do these other things
that I get to do because I'm youknow enrolled in classes.
If those disappeared, I'ddefinitely drop out immediately.
But with that being said,pursuing a political science
bachelor's with a minor in masscommunication.
I want to go into politics.

(55:06):
I don't know what that lookslike.
I don't know if that's helpingon campaigns or I'd love to be a
pro-life lobbyist.
Um, I don't know, I don't knowwhere the Lord has me, um, which
I love because so much of mylife I spent planning, and now I
just like like we talk about, Ibust through doors until one
gets shut.
And so um that's kind of justwhat I'm doing right now.

(55:27):
Definitely heavily involved withuh a lot of nonprofit like 501c3
politics, not the really redversus blue, but more of the the
biblical and the cultural uhimplications that we face and um
the the pushing back on thefalse ideologies.

SPEAKER_04 (55:43):
So eyes on Jesus hand on the plow.
Yep, and um I'm excited forthat.
I told you my my degree was agovernment degree.
Yeah, so funny.
Yeah, then I went into ministry.
But uh so it's crazy.
So Tucker was my son, um,Charlie Kirk was getting to go

(56:04):
to Virginia Tech.
Wow.
I think he was two weeks, Ithink it was about two weeks
till he was because he was whenhe got killed, he was just
ramping up a tour.

SPEAKER_01 (56:12):
Yeah, back tour.

SPEAKER_04 (56:13):
He was coming to Virginia Tech.
Tuck was so excited.
Um it's kind of crazy.
So what this is uh off topic,this is how we'll end.
What not off topic.
With a little diversion, what isgonna happen with turning point?
What's that gonna look like asfar as leadership?
Will it look the same movingforward, not having uh a person
that's doing exactly what he'sdoing, or is there a succession

(56:34):
to put someone else sort of inthat role going to campuses, or
will it become more what you'redoing, just chapters from campus
to campus?

SPEAKER_03 (56:42):
Yeah, I definitely have seen from a student
perspective, there has been anuprise in conviction on campus.
My group specifically, we're ata D1 school, but there weren't a
lot of people that wanted to getinvolved.
So we had about 15 activemembers, maybe 20 in our group
chat.
We now have 65 people in ourgroup chat.
And there has just, I mean,every time I refreshed our

(57:03):
Instagram, we had anotherrequest, somebody asking how can
I join?
We raised over$2,000 from peoplelocally who offered us money.
We didn't even do a fundraiser.
They just came up and eitherhanded me a watt of cash or
Venmoed me.
And so now I've got to likecreate an LLC for all this money
that we have that we've neverhad before.
Everything was out of my pocketprior nationally.

(57:25):
I mean, obviously, Erica hastaken over.
I trust that her um herrelationship with Charlie, she
knew what he wanted best.
And I don't know if there willever be somebody like Charlie.
Um, I think he was a once oncein a million.
And I do know that people likeSteven Crowder and um Ali

(57:46):
Bestuckey and other people thatare big names in kind of the
Christian conservative politicsarea have made a declaration to
do more campus tours.
Um, as far as like the wholeprove me wrong style, I don't
know.
That's his thing.
Yeah, I don't know.
I do know there are a lot ofpeople my age that have just
graduated that have starteddoing what he does.

(58:08):
Well, they'll just go sit andthey'll have a sign and we'll
have conversations.
We are gonna start doing that onour campus.
Like I'll do a pro-life one.
The guy next to me is a father,he'll do one about the nuclear
family, and it won't be underthe guise of turning point, but
just kind of be like, you can'ttake all of us out.
Like the phrase, we are allCharlie.
Like, in a sense, we are allgonna pick up that mic that he
dropped and move forward.

(58:29):
Because if the most dangerousthing that you can do in this
country is to sit across fromsomebody that you disagree with
and have a conversation,everybody should be worried, not
just conservatives, not justliberals.
Everybody should be worried.
And that is such a scary placefor our nation to be in where we
have where we have voices beingsilenced and words being

(58:49):
considered hate speech.
And so I think students left andright truthfully are waking up
to that and being like, well,this whole like rah-rah against
each other thing can't even takeplace if we silence the people
who are in charge of thesemovements.
And so I don't know if therewill ever be somebody that can,
you know, finish the job that hestarted, but I know that God's

(59:14):
timing is intentional andCharlie's life has allowed the
Lord to be glorified in waysthat he would have never
accomplished if he was stillalive right now.
And so it is a blessing to beable to see the immediate
aftermath of all of the peoplethat have felt like uh Ali
Bestucky said an amazing thingon her podcast the other day.

(59:34):
When people on the left haveinfluencers who pass away, you
see violence.
But when people on the right,you see visuals.
Yeah.
And so it's a very, it's noteven a left versus right, it's a
light versus dark at this point.
And we are a lot of people arewaking up to the spiritual
implications of these movements.
And I'm just so thankful thatCharlie was a believer and that

(59:56):
he shared the gospel becausethat I think sucks.
Speaks so much more volume thanto any ideology that he was
preaching.
And the fact that Bible cellsare up and church attendance is
through the roof, and you haveatheists and people who've never
even considered the Lord saying,Well, clearly this guy was
saying something that was soimportant they needed to take
him out.
Whoever they was, it doesn'tmatter.
We know they were evil.

(01:00:17):
And so I I'm encouraged by that.
I don't know, I don't know whatturning point looks like moving
forward.
I know they're still havingtheir conferences.
I know this December, it I wasat the memorial, you know, and
it it felt sad, but it was alsoextremely people were upset
about the fireworks and the thespeakers.
And I'm like, you don'tunderstand.
This is what Charlie built.
Like these are the people thatwalked by him this whole time.

(01:00:40):
He would have everybody said hewould have loved the sparkles.
Like it that was just that'sjust who he was.
Right.
And so it is definitely nice tobe able to, like I said, see the
aftermath of the the lives thathe has poured into.
And then now for us to have thatown personal conviction of why
in the world am I silencing myspiritual beliefs in in a

(01:01:03):
conversation with politics?
Because that is the true reasonwhy I vote the way I do and I
believe what I believe.
And so, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:10):
Man, it is interesting.
Uh when this happened, no radioshack, no Nike outlet, no Apple
store got looted.
It's just reality.
But when someone in in thatradical progressive left
movement gets quote unquotemartyred or killed or whatever,

(01:01:31):
or or persecuted, like it'sburned the cities, you know.
Yeah, yep.
So it's interesting.
Thanks.
I love you a lot.
So cool.
I'm so thankful.
For sure.
It was good.
Yes, so good.
Praise the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:44):
Yes, praise the Lord.
All right.

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:46):
We're gonna get you back.
We'll we'll probably have youback.
That'd be awesome.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:50):
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