October 23, 2025 • 52 mins
In this episode, Brody sits down with Rob, JB, and Zay to recap this year’s Fall Retreats at Snowbird, where the theme was The Son of Man. Together, they follow that title from Daniel’s vision to the Gospel of Mark and on to Revelation, showing how Jesus’ authority, suffering, and glory all come together in one story.
You’ll hear highlights and a behind-the-scenes look at the retreats as they unpack why teaching through one Gospel brings clarity and depth. They also share a simple way to keep studying: read Mark, note every “Son of Man” reference, and connect those threads back to Daniel 7 and forward to Revelation 14.
Please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help improve No Sanity Required and help others grow in their faith.
Click here to get our Colossians Bible study.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:09):
Welcome to No Sanity Required from the Ministry of
Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters,a podcast about the Bible,
culture, and stories from aroundthe globe.
SPEAKER_06 (00:21):
I'll start off by saying fall retreats are my
favorite of the year.
And that's a big that's a bigthing to say because summer's
obviously the summers.
You can't really compare summerto everything else.
Right.
Summer's its own animal.
But then during the school year,we have the Christian school
(00:41):
retreats, we have fall retreat,we have winter switch, we have
spring retreat, we have pure andholy, we have the college
retreat, uh multiple adultretreats, including the college
retreat and marriage conference,men's be strong events, women's
respond events of all thosethrough the year events.
I don't know.
(01:02):
For me personally, the fallretreat is my the one I look
forward to the most.
And I think it's because thetime of year is fun.
SPEAKER_03 (01:09):
Yes.
SPEAKER_06 (01:10):
It's just so it's so nice.
Oh, it's so cool.
SPEAKER_04 (01:13):
Yeah, the weather all for all three were like
perfect.
SPEAKER_05 (01:16):
I was telling Austin it was super cool how it wasn't
raining or anything like that.
And then it was on the last fallretreat the next Sunday, it
started pouring rain.
And I was like, that's so cool.
SPEAKER_06 (01:27):
As everybody left.
The second one was cold.
Like the second one, we sold apile of hoodies, and there was
kids showed up here from likeSouth Alabama, South
Mississippi.
Oh man.
They didn't have you know,they're coming from 90 degrees,
right?
And it was like in the low 40s,and people were bundled up in
the sessions.
We had to turn the fans off.
SPEAKER_02 (01:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (01:47):
It's that first little feel of fall.
And then and I mean I'm excitedabout this weekend.
I love the marriage conference,and I'm excited about you know
the the the leaves are turning,it's supposed to be really nice
weather, but yeah, fall retreat,that's is my favorite.
It's interesting, there's alwaysgroups that come.
(02:08):
We had a couple groups do thiswhere they have kids leave after
their local high school footballgame and get here at two in the
morning.
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (02:17):
Which is kind of crazy because it's already such
a short weekend.
It's so short.
Yeah.
So that like that one church,they came from Middle Tennessee,
uh, First Baptist Manchester.
SPEAKER_03 (02:28):
Yep.
SPEAKER_06 (02:29):
They arrived, those kids, they were getting here at
like three in the morning.
unknown (02:34):
Dang.
SPEAKER_06 (02:34):
On Friday night, Saturday morning.
And it was a pretty good chunkof kids.
SPEAKER_04 (02:38):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (02:39):
Is that the church where the first crew showed up
maybe like three in theafternoon?
Right.
Was that them?
Yep.
Okay.
And then the rest of theirchurch showed up.
SPEAKER_01 (02:48):
Yeah, they they have their homecoming football game
high school homecoming game.
SPEAKER_06 (02:53):
And then we had one group uh in Far Retreat one.
We had a group that chose thatone because it was their
favorite college football teamsbye week.
Yes.
They're teaching.
And last year, that that samegroup, they're the ones I've
told y'all this.
I won't say who or what team oranything like that, but last
(03:15):
year they were I was trying tohave a conversation with them.
And these are people that havebeen coming for years.
Right.
And I just go walking up thereto talk to them, and there are
about six of them piled around aphone watching a football game.
And I was like, I mean, I didn'texist.
I'm not in the world.
Uh-oh.
They ignored me and like brushedme up, and I was like, okay, all
(03:36):
right, all right.
SPEAKER_04 (03:37):
Probably, probably Alabama fans.
They're the worst.
SPEAKER_06 (03:40):
Yeah, you just can't stand those Alabama guys on
there.
It's a rough year to be a uhTennessee fan or a Georgia fan
with that Alabama tide rollingon it.
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (03:51):
Anyways, let's uh talk about Zay Zay got bragging
rights this year.
SPEAKER_06 (03:57):
Yes.
Yeah, so that group that wasfunny.
Um I asked them, I said, I said,man, y'all, y'all don't have to
I I brought it up.
I said last year, when thatfootball game came on,
everything, the world stoodstill.
Y'all don't have to worry aboutthis week.
They're like, oh yeah, that'swhy we chose this weekend to
survive.
SPEAKER_03 (04:15):
All right.
SPEAKER_06 (04:15):
That's so funny.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, I do want to we just beforewe went live, I was uh or
started recording, I was tellingthis.
So the teaching focus for FallRetreat was the Son of Man.
Um and we looked at all of thatthrough the Gospel of Mark.
(04:36):
It was the Gospel of Markspecifically.
And we'll do that a lot oftimes.
Like was it the summer when wedid two summers ago when we did
Life of Christ and we did it allin Luke, right?
Yeah, the authority of what'sauthority of Christ.
Authority of Christ, yep.
The authority of Christ, and wedid it all in the Gospel of
Luke.
And the reason we do that, if ifpeople are curious, and and
(04:58):
probably most people don't payattention, but some people I
know do.
And for those that do, uh thereason behind it I think would
be helpful.
And for those that don't payattention, I'd like to draw your
attention to it.
It it gives a cohesiveness tothe teaching that uh is good for
that student to follow up.
(05:19):
Like they go home and they canspend the next few weeks
studying that one gospel and seefamiliarity in those texts where
if you did one out of Matthew,one out of Mark, one out of
Luke, uh, some of those don'tlike there's stories that Luke
covers that Mark doesn't, or youknow, and so um then if you say
we'll go read all the gospels,which we want them to do, but
it's kind of a neat they couldthey could go that next week and
(05:41):
work through the I mean I workedthrough this past week I worked
back through the Gospel of Markjust looking for those, you
know, Rob's message was in Markchapter eight, and I I went back
through that a couple times.
So um that's why we do it thatway, but we're gonna get into
we'll get into the significanceof the title Son of Man, but I I
(06:02):
it was the Friday night introsermon, and I only did this on
Fall Retreat three.
The first two I didn't do it,but the last one on Friday night
I said I was gonna get to thepoint of Jesus has a bunch of
different names he's called inscripture.
Um but son of man is the one heprefers and uses the most of
(06:22):
himself, and the two jokes I wasnot jokes, but like the two
illustrations I was gonna use, Iwas gonna talk about nicknames.
Do you have a nickname that youprefer?
And then the second one, I wasgonna kind of make a joke about
when people speak in the firstperson or third person, right?
When they reference themselvesin the third person, you know,
like so.
If JB would be talking and shewould say, Well, JB's hungry, so
(06:44):
she's going to lunch.
You know, it it can be funny,but it can be weird.
Yeah.
But Jesus does it a lot where hesays, the son of man, and he'll
refer to himself in the thirdperson that way.
Um, so I was gonna, I was gonna,I had a little spoof I was gonna
do about people that talk aboutthemselves in the third person,
but I didn't get to it becausethe first part of it, I was
(07:04):
like, who's got a nickname?
I'm thinking in a room with 500people, between students and
staff, 500 people probably inthat room.
I needed uh give me somenicknames.
Which my wife is up there on thedrums, and so I'll I'll I'll
start.
I'll start let's get it rolling.
I call my wife Little for 30some years.
Everybody's called her little.
(07:25):
That's what she goes by.
That's a nickname.
Her name is not little, hername, little is not sure, her
name is not something with theword little in it.
So anyway, so hands start goingup, and the first hand goes up,
and I'm like, what you got?
And this kid is like, My name'sMadison, and everyone calls me
(07:45):
Maddie.
And I was like, Okay, well, inmy mind at this point, I'm
thinking that's not a nickname.
But I guess it is.
I don't know what's thedefinition of a nickname.
Maybe I'm the fool.
SPEAKER_01 (07:55):
Maybe I'm the yeah, I don't know strictly, but I
would say most people usenickname as yeah, it's not
actually your name.
Part of your name, yeah,shortened, yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (08:06):
Yeah, because what's your full name?
Uh Robert.
And what do we call you?
Rob.
And no one's going, oh, that'shis nickname.
Nope.
Yeah.
He's not really called.
SPEAKER_01 (08:15):
Every once in a while, I'll have somebody walk
up to me and say, Oh, so uh, andthey blink a lot.
Is Rob short for Robert?
And like, uh it's everything Ican do.
Not to be compared.
Not just to yeah, make it feelcompletely stupid, but like, you
know what it is?
It's I just dropped the Ertsound.
(08:38):
Just it's it's that name minusErt.
SPEAKER_05 (08:41):
Man, it's very creative.
Uh my dad, his name's Daryl, andhe pronounces it Daryl, but he
said his nickname is Darrell.
And I was like, he's trying toconvince everybody that when he
was younger, everybody wouldcall him Darrell as his
nickname.
And I'm like, you're delusional.
That's the same name with adifferent pronunciation.
(09:03):
That's all you do, right?
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (09:04):
And I'm like, okay, your name is My name's Xavier.
And you go by Zay.
Yeah.
That's see, that's abbreviated.
Is that a nickname?
Right.
We're just saying.
I would even say Joy Elizabeth,abbreviated down to JB.
Or Joy Beth.
Or Joy Beth.
JB, yeah.
Yeah, we're just shortness up.
Yes.
A nickname would be, you guyshave heard me talk about all the
(09:26):
guys, all the dudes in myfamily.
Right.
Yes.
Duke, Mooch, Paco, Cobb, Biggie.
Those are nicknames.
Yeah.
Agree?
Yes, agreed.
So when I said, Hey, uh, anynicknames, you know how many
nicknames we got?
Zero.
You know how many kids raisetheir all of them.
(09:48):
I'm thinking we need to do abreakout session on nicknames.
Here's what a nickname is.
Here's what qualifies.
That was pretty funny.
That is funny.
The one kid.
Finally, I couldn't take itanymore.
It was like, it was like theprobably the twelve.
And I should have just stoppedthe exercise.
I was like, I want to get onenickname and then I'll celebrate
it, you know.
I want one dude to say,Everybody calls me cornbread,
(10:08):
because when I was little, I atecornbread all the time, you
know, or whatever.
The one kid goes, and and andthey're all pointing at him, and
he's going, he's real excited.
So I'm like, what you got?
And his name was Cameron, and hesaid, But everybody just calls
me Cam.
And I was like, man, I was like,I I think I kind of see how they
got that.
SPEAKER_01 (10:28):
And they're like, mm-hmm.
They had a great time.
It it it was such a goodopening, maybe not for the point
that you heard driving to, butthey just all had such a good
time.
They were into it, they wereengaged.
Everybody's into it.
That's what it's like theirbuddies.
SPEAKER_06 (10:40):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (10:41):
That's funny.
SPEAKER_05 (10:42):
I feel like there might have been one guy.
I think he played football.
And he said, Everybody on myteam calls me this.
SPEAKER_06 (10:48):
It was still the major pain.
It was yeah, his last name wasPain.
Okay.
Everybody called him Major Pain.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (10:56):
That was a good one, but it's still part of his.
SPEAKER_06 (10:58):
Yeah.
That one would that one wouldmaybe have passed.
And I got real excited when oneguy said, My nickname's Link.
And I was like, Okay, all right.
What's your real name?
Lincoln.
Lincoln.
Never mind.
I got my hope so.
Okay.
Oh man.
That's funny.
So in the in the introductorymessage, we looked um on Friday
(11:22):
night, we looked into Danielchapter seven.
And then Rob referenced DanielSeven again on uh well, we
referenced it every sermon.
I I referenced it again Saturdaymorning.
Rob referenced it Sundaymorning.
Um I can't remember, Spencer'snot here, but I can't remember
if he referenced Daniel Seven.
(11:42):
I don't think he did.
SPEAKER_01 (11:43):
I did in one of them.
I think the first one, and thenhe kind of changed up uh Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (11:48):
I missed the first one.
His his first I heard him weekstwo and three.
And I didn't think I heard himuh reference it.
But the point being, you know,we wanted students to understand
the phrase son of man isextremely significant.
I mean extremely significantbecause it is a reference to a
(12:10):
vision that Daniel has in Danielchapter seven, which would have
which would have taken placeabout six centuries before Jesus
was on the earth.
And one of the things I love,love, love about Daniel's gospel
is that it's been authenticatedto have been written like like
the the timeline has beenauthenticated through textual
(12:33):
criticism.
So we know that Daniel waswritten and not changed.
It was written before, so Danielprophesies about the
Medo-Persian Empire, the GreekEmpire, the Roman Empire, and
then the coming of Jesus.
He prophesies all that stuff,and we can now look back at
history and see that it all cameto pass.
It's a really powerful, it's oneof those Daniel and and like the
(12:57):
great scroll of Isaiah that youhear people talk about that as
that is part of the Dead SeaScrolls.
Really strong defense for, man,we have copies of scripture that
can be authenticated.
So Daniel was written hundredsof years before Christ, but then
Jesus comes along and says, Oh,yeah, I'm the guy in Daniel 7,
(13:17):
because the prophecy of Daniel 7is you've got all these kingdoms
of the earth that that Danielsees brought before the throne
room of God, who's called theAncient of Days, and he brings
judgment against him.
And then Rob, I love the way youexplain how Jesus is then
brought in on clouds.
If you maybe how you did that onSunday morning was so good.
SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
So, you know, the the first clue is earlier on
because it says that you know,it's kind of like you're
Daniel's in his bed, but he'shaving this vision, and it says
that thrones are placed, andthen the Ancient of Days is
seated, but it referencesanother throne.
And so even that right there,you know, for us looking back,
(14:04):
you know, of course, you know,Jesus is gonna sit next to him,
but you know, that originalaudience who else who else sits
in throne next to the ancient ofdays, you know, the eternal God.
Uh but then yeah, then Jesusrides in in the clouds, like the
you know, doesn't say cloudchariot there, um, but that's
(14:25):
kind of the the imagery youshould have.
And but yeah, I so I think itwas when we were studying Daniel
for Red Oak, and I had Daniel 7,that was the chapter I was
assigned, or half of it.
And, you know, right away, youknow, there's all these you've
got like these vague memories orscripture that'll come up in
(14:48):
your mind, like, man, clouds area lot, you know, but I didn't
think much of it.
But then when I got into thestudy, you know, and I don't
necessarily like to use thisterm all the time, but like it
really is a motif.
There's there's a themethroughout the entire Bible from
beginning to end of God'spresence and clouds.
(15:10):
And so it's not accidental, andthey they all build on each
other.
Like so uh, you know, you thinkof Exodus, and you've got the
pillar of cloud that is leadingIsrael by day, and that
represents God's presence, hisprovision, his protection, his
guidance.
(15:31):
Um, and then you have the samething, you know, when Moses
begins to meet with God in thattent, right, and the cloud would
descend.
And then when he'd go up intothe mountain and the cloud would
descend, and he'd he'd meet withYahweh.
Um, and then when he's givingthe instruction for the
tabernacle, and he tells Moses,like, hey, tell this is actually
(15:55):
after Aaron's sons have messedup and the fire comes down and
consumes them.
And he tells Moses, tell yourbrother, don't just walk up into
the Holy of Holies.
Like, and he gives him specificinstruction about the Day of
Atonement, and he says, Mypresence in a cloud will rest
above the mercy seat.
And so the significance of God'spresence with the cloud is all
(16:19):
the way through.
Like, so when Dan, by the timeDaniel comes along, that's not
like a, oh, clouds, that's cool.
Like, it's a fluffy image.
It's a picture of divinepresence, authority, guidance,
illumination, like you know,like revelation.
Um, and so when he says, I sawone like a son of man coming on
(16:43):
the clouds of heaven, the reasonwhy he says like, because the
term son of man had been usedbefore in in scripture just as
human being.
But the connection of the son ofman riding the clouds is like,
okay, he looks like a humanbeing, but clearly he's divine.
(17:03):
And so then he comes in beforethe presence of the ancient of
days.
So you have God the Father, Godthe Son.
We use that languagetheologically, but it's it's
what's happening.
And Daniel's, he's putting itinto his terminology.
Um, and so then when Jesus picksup on it, he's making those
claims.
(17:24):
But yeah, so but the cloudsdon't stop there, you know, and
this is where I geeked out whenwe did the Roman the uh Daniel
study for Red Oak was okay, whendoes this take place?
Like timeline, and uh the theyou know, is it just Daniel
looking up into heaven and thisis going on in his day?
(17:47):
Does that even make sense?
You know, talking about okay,what's outside of time, what's
inside of time?
But what what caught myattention was Jesus is riding
the clouds into the throne room.
Uh, from where?
You know, and that was the thequestion I had, and and I found
(18:08):
awesome resources because it'slike okay, my mind went to the
Acts 1 scene, Jesus is ascendingpost-resurrection, he's he gives
the disciples finalinstructions, and he is it says
he is taken up in a cloud, okay,out of their sight.
(18:30):
Now, whether he continuedphysically traveling in that
cloud or, you know, eitherhowever far he traveled, but
what I believe is, and becausethen the angel says, Hey, he's
gonna come back in the same waythat you saw him go.
I believe, and you know, I say Ibelieve it's not my like this,
(18:50):
goes all the way back to thechurch fathers.
They made the same conclusionsof like Jesus ascends in the
clouds, and for him, the nextthing that happens is Daniel 7.
He's he's going uh into thepresence of the ancient of days,
having accomplished theatonement, and that's when he
(19:14):
receives uh the authority andokay, like dominion over
everything, of course, becausehe's just crushed the head of
the serpent, and he's justpurchased all the citizens of
his kingdom, right?
And and then, you know, fastforward time in time from our
(19:36):
perspective, you know, thenJesus had already made the
promises like in Matthew 24 andum Mark 13.
Uh, hey, you're gonna see theSon of Man come in the clouds
with glory, you know, and hisangels, he's he's coming back,
and then you get the Revelationuh 14, which is just uh should I
(19:57):
read that?
SPEAKER_06 (19:58):
Uh yeah.
Because in that one, he's comingback on the cloud, he's wearing
the crown.
He's got the crown and he's gota sickle.
SPEAKER_01 (20:06):
Oh yes.
SPEAKER_06 (20:07):
Because he's gonna bring a harvest.
Yes.
And which goes back to histeaching about like whatever you
sow, you're gonna reap.
But then also, isn't there aparable where Jesus Yeah Yeah,
so the idea when he's comingback with that sickle, he's
harvesting those he's gonnabring into his kingdom.
(20:28):
Right, but he's also you've gotthe picture of the grapes of
wrath, he's harvesting judgment,those that are coming under
judgment, and then it's thatvivid picture of the blood flow
into the bridle of the horse.
Anyway, you want to read it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:42):
Yeah, because okay, so yeah, I love that.
He yeah, the first time he came,he's sowing seed, it's his word,
it's the gospel, and when hereturns, he's harvesting all the
elect, uh, which is I think howMatthew he says it in Matthew,
like he's gonna come back andgather together from the four
winds and the corners of theearth all of his elect.
(21:03):
So, yeah, Revelation uh 14, 14.
Uh then I looked and behold, awhite cloud and seated on the
cloud.
So, you know, more that pictureof a chariot, right?
Not like Tom and Jerry cartoons.
Um, a white cloud and seated onthe cloud, one like a son of
man, exact same language asDaniel, with a golden crown on
(21:26):
his head.
So he's received that authorityin the Daniel 7 vision previous
to this, with a ground a goldencrown on his head and a sharp
sickle in his hand.
Another angel came out of thetemple, calling with a loud
voice to him who sat on thecloud, put in your sickle and
reap, for your hour to reap hascome, for the harvest of the
(21:48):
earth is fully ripe.
Exciting.
Uh so he who sat on the cloudswung his sickle across the
earth, and the earth was reaped.
So, like, yeah, that yourharvest is ripe.
Like the picture of the gospelhas done its work, like and the
church has proclaimed thegospel, and all those who are
(22:10):
have received it already, andhe's he's reaping, he's bringing
in the harvest.
SPEAKER_06 (22:16):
And that picture of him in that scene, he's riding
the clouds, yeah, with with thecrown, but he doesn't have a
sword, he's got that sickle.
Yeah.
And so kind of timeline the waythe way that you're describing
this, and what I think makes alot of sense would be Acts 1,
(22:37):
when Jesus is ascending, he'sascending into what Daniel 600
years prior saw, where he'scoming into the presence of God,
and then Revelation is he'sleaving that place to come bring
about his harvest.
SPEAKER_01 (22:50):
So then John, yeah, John's looking at it, you know,
for him, whatever 60-ish yearsafter he saw Jesus go, ascend
into the cloud, now he has thisvision of Jesus coming back on
the cloud, uh, which I wouldbelieve.
I know there's different viewson this, and I don't fall into a
camp, but I believe that'sfuture.
(23:12):
That hasn't happened yet.
You know, that wasn't I don't Idon't think it was when the
temple was destroyed.
I think this is still pointingforward to the the end of days.
SPEAKER_06 (23:20):
Yeah, I think so.
And uh it's exciting because inall of those well, in the Daniel
7 passage and in the Revelation14 passage, he's called the Son
of Man.
SPEAKER_02 (23:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (23:36):
So then for Jesus to continually refer to himself as
the Son of Man, I mean it's areally big statement, and it was
a statement that infuriated thereligious leaders.
SPEAKER_01 (23:45):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (23:46):
Because we see that progression in the in the Gospel
of Mark.
SPEAKER_02 (23:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (23:50):
Yeah.
I really appreciate because likelooking back to when I was in
youth or when I was in highschool, I really thought like
Old Testament is just like anold book of laws and really old
stories and genealogy, but theNew Testament is where it's at.
Like that's pretty much all Iread, which okay, but I
appreciate how always in sermonsyou guys do such a good job of
(24:14):
like bridging that gap to makeit easy to understand for middle
school and high schoolers to belike, oh wait, this is talked
about in the old testament, andnow we're talking about it in
the new testament.
And like, one, obviously that'sjust kind of mind-blowing and
like really cool, but I thinkfor me, like in high school,
that would have been even moremind-blowing of like, wait, no,
they're saying the same thing,like they are agreeing, and it's
(24:37):
not just an old book of laws orgenealogy, it's like it is
referring to what is to come andwhat will come and stuff.
So I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:47):
That's cool.
It's because it's like the NewTestament brings that clarity to
what was happening in the oldtestament, but the old testament
gives depth to yourunderstanding in the New
Testament that you you justwouldn't have without it, you
know.
SPEAKER_04 (25:02):
Right.
That's a good point.
SPEAKER_06 (25:04):
The uh the Friday morning well I'm uh Friday
evening rather message.
I did a an exercise withstudents where we looked at
every reference in the Gospel ofMark where Jesus uses the phrase
Son of Man.
And we said each of these willfall into one category.
(25:25):
It's either a reference to hisauthority or his suffering or
his glory.
And that was a fun exercise.
I got a lot of good feedbackfrom that, and I got a lot of
feedback from our small groupleaders.
They use that to sort ofspringboard through each share
group.
SPEAKER_04 (25:42):
And Spencer and Rob both kind of like use that as
well.
And I thought it got a lot oflike acknowledgement and crowd
participation.
SPEAKER_01 (25:52):
Yeah.
Yeah, which you know, when wehad met previous to the first
retreat, like you hadn't thathadn't been part of the
conversation.
And so the first time I heard itwas the first time students
heard it, but it just it clickedand it did it, it uh galvanized
everything, you know, where itwas like, okay, that's that's
(26:13):
what's gonna tie everythingtogether so neatly.
Where I was like, Oh, I know, Imean, the passage doing Mark
chapter eight, yeah, sufferingis the heart of it, and then
glory is on the back part of it,you know, like his suffering
leading to glory.
SPEAKER_06 (26:28):
Well, it was interesting because when we met
going into that week or cominguh towards the end of that week
as we were going into theweekend, I had not that was I
had prepared to speak um at theend of Mark Two, where he says,
the Son of Man is Lord even overthe Sabbath.
Right.
I was gonna start right thereand then go into the first seven
(26:52):
verses of Mark III.
That's the end of Mark Two, andthen the next passage he goes
into the synagogue on theSabbath and heals a guy's hand.
And I was gonna make the pointJesus uses the phrase Son of Man
to show that he's Lord over theSabbath or that he has authority
over the law.
But when you were breaking downwhere you were gonna go on
(27:13):
Sunday morning, that's what gotso I've actually adjusted to I
was like, okay, uh because I'malways if I go first, if I can
know where y'all are going, Ijust try to set that up to like
if we can link everythingtogether.
Because there's times where wedo a sermon series and we never
quite on the front end get itconnected where it's seamless.
(27:36):
But when we can, it really doeshelp with the flow.
And in the summer, it's not ascritical because there's ten
sermons and a bunch ofbreakouts.
But in the when we're when wegot a retreat with four sessions
and a lot of kids are gonna missone of them, then if we can
connect them and and give it onecohesive thought.
(27:57):
Yeah.
So knowing that you were gonnago to suffering and
understanding that the sufferingof Jesus is what led to his
glory, right?
We have to paint that picture.
SPEAKER_05 (28:07):
I think something, and I know I talked to you about
this, Rob, but I thinkthroughout the first three, it
was really uh easily grasped.
I think by staff and studentsand youth leaders alike, of
like, okay, this is when you'retalking about how Jesus is Lord
over the Sabbath, okay, this isshowing Jesus' authority.
And then we talked a lot aboutJesus' suffering, but I thought
(28:29):
something that was really cool.
Not only did it come at the endof like it was Rob's final
sermon, but it was at the end ofyour sermon where it talked
about glory at the very end, andyou kind of explained, okay,
what is glory?
Because we're talking aboutriding on the clouds, we're
talking about like Jesus iscoming from the sky, like these
things could be a little bitconfusing because if if I'm a
(28:50):
little guy in middle school, I'mlike, oh yeah, I'm expecting to
see like clouds and light and alittle flaky dust, you know.
So like what is glory?
And so I think it was reallycool whenever you actually
explained what is it and whatdoes that mean?
Yeah, that there's glory that'sbeing revealed, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (29:08):
And once again, not even tied into Brody talking
about his his conquest didn'tcome through a violent war, it
came through the cross, and likeit just all ties together
perfectly.
It's so good, yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (29:22):
Yeah, kingdom through the cross, not through
conquest.
Yeah.
And the uh on Saturday morning,we looked at the first two Son
of Man statements by Jesus.
The first one is when the guy,the paralytic, is healed, and
his friends get him up on theroof and they lower him down.
And I actually did that, I didthat text as a sermon uh during
(29:44):
the series on the miracles ofChrist.
SPEAKER_02 (29:46):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (29:47):
Um, or the author or the Luke authority of Jesus
Hunger.
But anyway, yeah, I had donethat recently where that that
text was the sermon.
But so we we looked at webriefly looked at that and keyed
in on the Son of Man statementbecause.
They lower this guy.
All of the religious leaders arethere.
And Jesus, before he heals him,says, Your sins are forgiven.
(30:11):
And it's just it's a reallyinteresting visual.
Like to imagine being there.
And these guys have loweredtheir friend.
They've gone to great lengths toget their friend in front of
Jesus, including cutting a holein the roof, getting him down in
front of Jesus, and Jesus thefirst words out of his mouth.
I mean, I I picture a pausewhile they get this hole cut.
SPEAKER_02 (30:34):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (30:35):
You know, the f the the blade of the shovel pops
through, but it takes some time.
Like, did everyone stop andwatch?
Did everyone back up and thedust is falling?
I picture particles of dirtfalling and then the first rays
of light come through.
And but they got to get it bigenough for to shove this guy
through.
The picture I paint for the kidsis it's a tiny hole.
(30:56):
They shove him through feetfirst.
Because my my childhood flannelgraph image is he's being
lowered on a stretcher.
unknown (31:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
Yeah.
What what would you do?
Would you cut one that lower himthat way?
Or yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (31:08):
Would you cut a six by three hole, six feet long by
three feet wide, and lower himon a stretcher, or would you get
an 18-inch hole that you couldget his little atrophied legs
shoved through and just kind ofpush him through with a rope
under his arms and lower him thesix feet.
There's low ceilings, you know.
I mean, by the time the guy'shead clears the ceiling, his
feet are almost on the floor.
It was and just get him downthere.
(31:30):
What a what a disturbing, diwhat a disrupting scene to what
Jesus is doing.
Jesus is sitting there waxingeloquent, answering the scribes'
questions.
He's he's philosophizing,philosophying, whatever that
word would be.
He's he's having theologicaldiscussion and discourse, and
then hole in the roof, and theylower that guy, and Jesus does
(31:51):
not heal him.
He says, Your sins are forgiven.
And those guys, in in the text,Jesus reads their mind.
It says he knows their thoughtsand he answers the question
that's in their mind, which is,Who's he think he is?
Right.
Forgive sins, which isinteresting because they expect
him to heal the guy, right?
(32:11):
But they don't recognize him asGod.
So he's so he responds to theirthoughts by saying, What do you
think is easier?
To forgive this guy's sins or toheal him?
I'll heal him, rise, take upyour bed and walk, boom, he does
it.
But he says, This is a it goesback to the the series we did on
miracles.
The miracles are signs pointingto the identity of Christ.
And so in that story, what wehave is his authority.
(32:33):
He says, I have the authority toforgive sin.
So he right out of the gate, andwe told students, Jesus declared
himself to be Lord, he hedeclared himself to be God in
the flesh.
Anyone that ever says he didn'tis not is not studying the
gospels because it's there.
Um when he declared himself tobe the Son of Man who came to
(32:55):
forgive sins, he's saying, I'mthe guy in Daniel 7.
And this and the work hasstarted.
And and so that first and thenthe the end of chapter two is
where he declares himself to beLord over the Sabbath.
So we started with authority, weget to suffering that leads to
glory.
So I do think it's helpful tounderstand, and for those that
(33:16):
are listening who are teachers,if you can teach the authority
of Jesus, too many people onlyfocus on his authority and it
becomes sort of heavy-handed,legalistic just do the rules
because he's a righteous judge.
But more people focus on thelove and gentleness because he's
gentle and lowly, and they butbut you can't do that and cash
(33:41):
out on his authority.
SPEAKER_02 (33:42):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (33:43):
It's both.
Yeah.
So the authority is established,which makes the suffering so
such an a huge theological piecebecause he has authority to
forgive sins, he's Lord of theSabbath, he has authority over
the law, and I'm gonna sufferfor my people.
Right.
Um, which then leads to hisglory.
SPEAKER_01 (34:03):
Yeah, yeah.
For for himself being, you know,reunited with the glory that he
had with the Father before thefoundation of the earth, but
then the the humbling part forus is so that he can bring many
sons to glory.
Many sons to glory.
Yeah, which is you know, you goback to the cloud uh theme, you
(34:25):
know, Jesus is promising us thatwe'll be caught up into the
clouds.
Like it's not just, oh, you'regonna travel to the sky, which I
hope we do.
Right.
Because yes, that's gonna be anawesome moment in and of itself.
But it but what he's saying is,you're entering into my glory,
like you're entering into myvery presence.
(34:46):
Like that's that's the hope.
SPEAKER_06 (34:48):
Man, what a cool thought.
Yeah, that phrase, many sons toglory, bringing many sons to
glory.
SPEAKER_04 (34:54):
I know Spencer's not here, but I loved his session
this weekend.
The like main, I guess, takeawayor like call to action at the
end was get away and spend timein prayer.
And like Jesus put a lot ofemphasis and um intentionality
in that.
So, like, are you?
And I got to work with studentsthat last weekend, follow treat
(35:15):
three, and that was really good.
They responded really well tothat, and all of them were like,
Man, I don't even do that.
Like, and it just turned into areally cool conversation.
Of like, at one point, I thinkhe says a lot of times we'll try
to rest and relax by scrollingor like watching something, and
that is the opposite of rest,like in our brains, we're like,
(35:35):
Oh yeah, I'm resting.
Right.
Um, so that turned into a reallycool conversation.
So really grateful for Spencer'ssession.
That was really cool.
SPEAKER_06 (35:43):
So good.
And he did uh he looked at Jesusinteracting with the demons.
Yeah.
Um which those are some of myfavorite passages in scripture
anyway.
Um when you talk aboutauthority, he has author because
that that's we always try toanytime I'm talking about Satan
(36:06):
or demons or devils withstudents, I try to help them
understand.
We we as a ministry, we've donethis a lot, and from breakouts
to sermons to share groupconversations to help them
understand the devil is not likethe counterpart to Jesus, is not
yin yin and yang or whateverthat thing is, or it's not like
(36:26):
um you know, when you think ofum Marvel movies or uh Disney f
Disney stories from childhoodwhere you've got the the
villain, the great villain andthe great hero, and they're
going at it.
SPEAKER_05 (36:39):
And it's like, oh, who's gonna win?
Who's gonna win?
You never know.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (36:42):
Yeah.
In those interactions with thedemons, um Jesus establishes his
authority and something thatstood out in Spencer's I want I
want to um close by pointing outsomething from Spencer's sermon
and something from Rob's sermonthat for me were my big
takeaways from those twosermons.
Spencer's sermon, my bigtakeaway was um he he doesn't
(37:08):
when Jesus tells the heprohibits the demons from from
declaring him to be the son ofman.
And I've always heard that andI've even taught it like I've
always said Jesus is gonnareveal these things in his time.
But Spencer made a great point.
He said, He said, Jesus issaying, Don't go, I don't want
(37:30):
you to be the one who'sspreading theology.
I'm gonna reveal this the wayI'm gonna reveal it.
Right.
You don't have the authority togo reveal this.
Right.
So he binds them to silence.
SPEAKER_02 (37:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (37:41):
Is a really cool point because I've always
thought because you see thatwhere Jesus says, Don't tell
anybody, don't tell.
And he'll say it to people too.
He'll heal a guy, you know, heheals the leper at the end of
Mark 1, and he's like, Don'ttell anybody.
And then the guy's like, goes,he goes and he's screaming and
hollering.
What's Jesus' motive for that?
Well, to maintain order, he'sgot a he's got a strategy and a
plan, and he's moving in acertain way, and it creates
(38:02):
chaos anytime this gets, youknow, gets spread the wrong way.
But there's not there's not thistheological framework of Jesus
revealing that he is the son ofman.
So when the demons, when Jesusbinds the demons to silence,
Spencer made the point he's notallowing them to go say
(38:25):
theological things.
Yeah, they don't get to goidentify, they're not gonna get
it right anyway.
Yeah, um, I thought that wassuper interesting.
I I talked to Spencer aboutthat.
I've never thought of this.
And then Rob, from your message,I think I texted you after the
last week and just said, uh, Ihave never thought of this, but
when Jesus is hanged on thecross, we know they hung they
(38:50):
killed people and they theystripped them naked.
That part of the humiliation wasthat they were naked, completely
exposed, and Jesus hanging onthe cross, naked under the
weight of sin.
You drew a parallel to Adam andEve realizing their nakedness in
the garden.
SPEAKER_04 (39:08):
That was good.
SPEAKER_06 (39:09):
Um, I was really good.
SPEAKER_04 (39:10):
Yeah.
And even like that, I guess Ijust never thought obviously
being crucified on the cross ishumiliating, but Rob, you always
do such a good job of likeputting that in to perspective
and like bringing that emotionof like, yeah, that is horrible.
And like, even kind of said onall the children's books or
flannel flannel graphs, it'slike he's got a little cloth on
(39:31):
or whatever, but it's like, no,he was like that is so
humiliating.
He was naked, yeah, bearing theweight of our sins, like even
that alone.
But then drawing, I think youdrew another parallel.
SPEAKER_05 (39:42):
Yeah, it was the uh the the crown of thorns.
SPEAKER_04 (39:45):
Yes, yeah, yeah, that was so good.
SPEAKER_05 (39:47):
I think both of those kind of what you were
saying, and if you want tofinish up your thought, but I
thought between the both ofthose, it brings like the
emotion, the reality of it, notin just terms of like this is
humiliating, like you were justsaying, JB, it's not just that
it's humiliating, like Jesus isbearing the weight, he's
(40:08):
becoming the curse.
Because in Genesis, which Ithink this goes back to the
point that we were makingearlier about the parallels
between the Old Testament andthe New.
Well, you see in Genesis inchapter three, whenever the
curse is is starting to take itseffect, God says to Adam, Now
the ground's gonna bring forththorns.
(40:30):
And you immediately see thateffect that's that's happening
from his sin.
And then you fast forward many,many years later, and Jesus is
literally physically wearing acrown of thorns, which is like
symbolizing I'm wearing, I'mbecoming a curse, right?
And I'm taking it on.
And so I just think that thatpoint is is so powerful when it
(40:51):
really hits home that you'relike, okay, this is real.
He's really bearing the weight,he's bearing the sin.
He's he's in this moment takingon the punishment that all of
mankind should have had.
So, I mean, just just seeingthat it was such a cool point.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (41:06):
Yeah, in the garden, the thorns and thistles, the
nakedness that is exposed, Jesuson the cross, naked and
humiliated, suffering for oursin with the thorn, the the
crown of thorns on his head.
Yeah, this is a powerfulimagery.
Right.
The only thing I hated was thatyou did that Sunday morning.
SPEAKER_01 (41:25):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (41:26):
That should have probably been Saturday morning
because that needed some sharegroup discussion.
And they got it.
I mean, they they had they wentto share groups, but that was
powerful.
Yes.
Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (41:36):
And it, you know, it it's like the reality of it.
For me, it takes it from I mean,I think for sure, I know you
feel this way, maybe y'all dotoo, depending on how you're
raised.
You know, it's when I first reada story or I'm hearing somebody
preach, I'm constantly fightingagainst flannographs.
(42:00):
And and I'm so thankful forthat, like at that stage of my
life, like it was awesome.
Or, you know, uh a cartoon uhversion of a Bible story or even
a movie that you know, likeJesus of Nazareth, that's I
watched that, you know, Easteras long as I can remember.
But it you know, visually it waspretty tame, you know, for the I
(42:25):
think it was made in the 70s,you know.
So I'm always fighting againstthat and trying to like go to
the reality of it.
And for some reason, those twothings for me make it so vivid
and graphic, but like in a in avery realistic way.
And but it's also like I lovethe like master storytelling
(42:52):
part of it.
Like you know, you know, one ofthe things we always you know,
you say about the Bible, youlisten to a guy like Wes Huff
and like how everything's tiedtogether and how many different
authors, different continents,different languages, but the one
story throughout it all, andyou're like, Oh, you know, and
(43:12):
it's not necessarily an evidencein and of itself, but I stand
back and all and go, only God,only God weaving in yeah, the
nakedness, what does thatrepresent?
The thorns, what does thatrepresent?
And then, okay, Jesus on thecross naked with the crown of
thorns, you know, and it's justlike my and it's why we love
(43:33):
stories to begin with.
Every culture loves stories, andit's because like that's the
that's the construct for us tounderstand the story, you know.
It's just yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (43:48):
There was a guy, I was talking to a guy the other
day, he's missionary in theCongo for 70, second generation
missionary.
Wow, phenomenal storyteller, andhe's like I I said the other
day, I the other day I washaving a conversation with
someone about this guy.
I talked to this guy probably 10years ago.
(44:10):
But the other day, yesterday,day four, we're having having a
conversation.
We're we're kind of retellingsome stories this guy told, and
this guy's still living, he's inhis 80s now.
But when I met him, he was like71 years old.
He was third generation Congomissionary to the Congo.
Wow.
So his grandfather went into theCongo in 1918.
(44:33):
It was right after World WorldWar I, and it was like the first
missionaries to get in there, atleast in this area.
And then his this guy's fatherwas born in like that's around
that time, so was was born inthe Congo, or maybe was a little
baby when they got there.
And then this guy was born in1950 or 40, I think 1945.
(44:58):
So during the during World WarII, they're in the Congo, like
just they literally threegenerations of missionary work.
So when I got this, when I metthis guy in his early 70s, he
had just come out of there.
And so he, I'm like uh, and Ihad the opportunity to spend
several hours with this guy.
And I said, Would you pleasetell me, take me to your
(45:19):
childhood, it's 1955, you're 10years old, you live in the
Congo, and I just got himtelling stories.
SPEAKER_02 (45:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (45:27):
And it was riveting.
He told me stories about becausenowadays it's very difficult to
like like you can't go hunt wildgame in Africa.
You gotta pay these massiveexorbitant fees and go through
these outfitters andprofessional guide services.
So this dude grew up in a timewhere there was still wildlife
that that every year they woulddo a feast where they would go,
(45:49):
these two missionary families inthe 50s and 60s, they'd go out
and they would hunt for threeweeks.
SPEAKER_02 (45:55):
Wow.
SPEAKER_06 (45:56):
And they had this like off-roading Jeep, World War
II era Jeep rig, and they wouldkill two or three Impala, they'd
throw them on the back of thisJeep, drive them the 20 miles
back, and they would get themall you know, cut up, and the
villagers would start preparingthe meat.
They go back out and hunt.
And like he told me a storyabout getting stalked by a lion,
(46:16):
and I'm just they're they're ona perch overlooking this this uh
valley where they're waiting onthis herd of black buck or water
buck or impala or something tocome through, and they and they
don't realize a tribe or what dothey call it, pride, a pride of
lines is coming up the hillbehind them, and he they kill
the front one.
It's like this dude, I mean, I'mjust on the edge of my seat
(46:38):
listening to this old guy tellstories.
He told a funny story about umbeing in a truck, they're in an
old land cruiser chasing this,they're driving one night and
they see this.
It was like uh some kind of uhan antelope type animal, and
they they're chasing this thingacross the savannah or whatever,
trying to run it down, and theyfinally they catch, they they
(47:01):
hit it with the bumper and rollit, and then one of the dudes
jumps out and and gets a knifeinto its throat.
And and uh it was so crazy tolisten to this guy tell stories,
and I'm like, the word of God,we're we're tuned.
Our hearts and imaginations aretuned for storytelling.
And if people one of the thingswe we want to do at Snowbird,
(47:22):
and I think we I think we got itright on this Son of Man series,
we want to engage thatimagination that people have so
that they see the story ofscripture coming to light in
their minds.
And what a master storytellerdoes is they bring you into that
moment and they help you to seeit play out in real time.
I I told somebody recently, Ilove what they've done with The
(47:45):
Chosen.
I love that series.
It's phenomenal, it'sstorytelling, and it's most
amazing, it's it's done so well.
I personally have not enjoyed itas much as a lot of people, not
because of because it's notsound, but because I've already
painted pictures of all thesepeople in my mind.
Right, right.
It's like if someone's up whatyou've yeah, yeah, if someone
(48:06):
played y'all in a in a sketch,I'm like, no, no, no, no, you
know, or if you've read thebook, right, created the images,
and then you watch the movie,you know.
Right.
But and so for me, it myimagination is already so
engaged with scripture.
But one of the reasons I lovewhat they've done with that
series, or with you know, whatwhat Mel Gibson did with the
(48:26):
Passion of Christ 20 years agonow, it engages the imagination.
And if if students will leavehere having these visual images
that we've tried to paintthrough scripture um and go home
and become students of the word,it just changes the dynamic of
how you see Christ, how you seethe word of God.
SPEAKER_05 (48:47):
I think uh in a similar vein to what you're
saying, or I guess maybe in incontrast, so you already have
these images in your mind ofmaybe what specific people like
what Peter or some of the otherdisciples might look like and
they're portrayed in this inthis show, and you're like, oh
man, I didn't think they werelike that, but that's just a
show.
(49:07):
And so I think it's really coolfor students.
Maybe they already have acertain image of what some
scripture might look like intheir mind, or maybe they might
have a certain view of thegospel, and then they come to
Snowbird and they're hearingsound teaching and they're
hearing the word exposited ortaught as it should be, and
because they already had apreconceived notion, now they
(49:29):
can come in and say, Oh, this ishow it actually should be, and
it's different because it's theauthority of scripture, not a TV
series.
You know, so if their view mightbe a little bit skewed or it
might be a little bit off, yes,I did have a certain view before
I came here, but now I see thescriptures as they should be,
and it can completely, like yousaid, draw them into it and then
help them to see it as it trulyis, and then uh Jesus, as much
(49:52):
as he's revealed himself to us,is then seen by whoever is is uh
listening, and I think that's socool.
SPEAKER_06 (50:00):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (50:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (50:03):
Well, got marriage conference coming up this
weekend.
Yep.
We'll maybe maybe we'll doanother one of these to wrap
that up.
We'll see.
We'll see how it goes.
We got a lot, we got a hugelineup of NSR.
SPEAKER_02 (50:15):
Yes.
SPEAKER_06 (50:16):
As we're recording this, we're getting ready to sit
down to do parts two and threeof an episode with uh a guest
that I'm really excited forpeople to hear from.
Um and we're in the middle of anamazing lineup on NSR right now.
The feedback I'm getting iscrazy.
Had somebody talk to me thismorning who had dropped by camp
and just said, Man, I wasweeping listening to the second
(50:37):
episode of the Emily and LewisEmily Foreman.
Yeah.
Um just powerful, man.
That yeah, that episode thatwould have been not this past
Monday, but the Monday before.
Everybody I've talked to that'slistened to that has just said,
Oh my goodness, I'm I'm blownaway.
Like I I literally had to pullmy car over.
Or I'd talk to one guy, he said,Man, I was on the tractor, I
(50:58):
think he was bush hogging orcutting corn or something, a
farmer up in the Midwest thathad texted me and or messaged me
and said, Hey, I just listenedto the part two of Emily
Foreman's story, and I literallyam weeping in in the cab of my
tractor.
Yeah.
Pretty cool.
Um, but we've got a couple more,we've got part two to the Ann
Tuttle, which gives gets reallyintense because it gets into
(51:19):
Ann's story.
SPEAKER_04 (51:20):
Story, yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (51:21):
And that's coming up um next Monday.
And then I'm excited for thenext couple of guests we've got
that'll take up four or fiveepisodes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (51:30):
Yeah, good stuff.
SPEAKER_06 (51:32):
But hopefully this is encouraging and we'll follow
up, maybe, maybe do somethingafter the marriage retreat.
Yeah.
It won't be this long, but um,thank y'all for coming on.
I really wanted to unpack allthis.
Such a go go do a study on theSon of Man.
Go dig in.
Look at Daniel 7, look atRevelation 14, and look at every
time Jesus calls a chance.
Everything in between.
(51:52):
Everything in between, andyou'll cover the basis.
Yeah.
Uh thank y'all.
SPEAKER_00 (51:58):
Yeah.
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resources.
And we'll see you next week onNo Sanity Required.
Welcome to No Sanity Required from the Ministry of
Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters,a podcast about the Bible,
culture, and stories from aroundthe globe.
SPEAKER_06 (00:21):
I'll start off by saying fall retreats are my
favorite of the year.
And that's a big that's a bigthing to say because summer's
obviously the summers.
You can't really compare summerto everything else.
Right.
Summer's its own animal.
But then during the school year,we have the Christian school
(00:41):
retreats, we have fall retreat,we have winter switch, we have
spring retreat, we have pure andholy, we have the college
retreat, uh multiple adultretreats, including the college
retreat and marriage conference,men's be strong events, women's
respond events of all thosethrough the year events.
I don't know.
(01:02):
For me personally, the fallretreat is my the one I look
forward to the most.
And I think it's because thetime of year is fun.
SPEAKER_03 (01:09):
Yes.
SPEAKER_06 (01:10):
It's just so it's so nice.
Oh, it's so cool.
SPEAKER_04 (01:13):
Yeah, the weather all for all three were like
perfect.
SPEAKER_05 (01:16):
I was telling Austin it was super cool how it wasn't
raining or anything like that.
And then it was on the last fallretreat the next Sunday, it
started pouring rain.
And I was like, that's so cool.
SPEAKER_06 (01:27):
As everybody left.
The second one was cold.
Like the second one, we sold apile of hoodies, and there was
kids showed up here from likeSouth Alabama, South
Mississippi.
Oh man.
They didn't have you know,they're coming from 90 degrees,
right?
And it was like in the low 40s,and people were bundled up in
the sessions.
We had to turn the fans off.
SPEAKER_02 (01:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (01:47):
It's that first little feel of fall.
And then and I mean I'm excitedabout this weekend.
I love the marriage conference,and I'm excited about you know
the the the leaves are turning,it's supposed to be really nice
weather, but yeah, fall retreat,that's is my favorite.
It's interesting, there's alwaysgroups that come.
(02:08):
We had a couple groups do thiswhere they have kids leave after
their local high school footballgame and get here at two in the
morning.
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (02:17):
Which is kind of crazy because it's already such
a short weekend.
It's so short.
Yeah.
So that like that one church,they came from Middle Tennessee,
uh, First Baptist Manchester.
SPEAKER_03 (02:28):
Yep.
SPEAKER_06 (02:29):
They arrived, those kids, they were getting here at
like three in the morning.
unknown (02:34):
Dang.
SPEAKER_06 (02:34):
On Friday night, Saturday morning.
And it was a pretty good chunkof kids.
SPEAKER_04 (02:38):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (02:39):
Is that the church where the first crew showed up
maybe like three in theafternoon?
Right.
Was that them?
Yep.
Okay.
And then the rest of theirchurch showed up.
SPEAKER_01 (02:48):
Yeah, they they have their homecoming football game
high school homecoming game.
SPEAKER_06 (02:53):
And then we had one group uh in Far Retreat one.
We had a group that chose thatone because it was their
favorite college football teamsbye week.
Yes.
They're teaching.
And last year, that that samegroup, they're the ones I've
told y'all this.
I won't say who or what team oranything like that, but last
(03:15):
year they were I was trying tohave a conversation with them.
And these are people that havebeen coming for years.
Right.
And I just go walking up thereto talk to them, and there are
about six of them piled around aphone watching a football game.
And I was like, I mean, I didn'texist.
I'm not in the world.
Uh-oh.
They ignored me and like brushedme up, and I was like, okay, all
(03:36):
right, all right.
SPEAKER_04 (03:37):
Probably, probably Alabama fans.
They're the worst.
SPEAKER_06 (03:40):
Yeah, you just can't stand those Alabama guys on
there.
It's a rough year to be a uhTennessee fan or a Georgia fan
with that Alabama tide rollingon it.
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (03:51):
Anyways, let's uh talk about Zay Zay got bragging
rights this year.
SPEAKER_06 (03:57):
Yes.
Yeah, so that group that wasfunny.
Um I asked them, I said, I said,man, y'all, y'all don't have to
I I brought it up.
I said last year, when thatfootball game came on,
everything, the world stoodstill.
Y'all don't have to worry aboutthis week.
They're like, oh yeah, that'swhy we chose this weekend to
survive.
SPEAKER_03 (04:15):
All right.
SPEAKER_06 (04:15):
That's so funny.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, I do want to we just beforewe went live, I was uh or
started recording, I was tellingthis.
So the teaching focus for FallRetreat was the Son of Man.
Um and we looked at all of thatthrough the Gospel of Mark.
(04:36):
It was the Gospel of Markspecifically.
And we'll do that a lot oftimes.
Like was it the summer when wedid two summers ago when we did
Life of Christ and we did it allin Luke, right?
Yeah, the authority of what'sauthority of Christ.
Authority of Christ, yep.
The authority of Christ, and wedid it all in the Gospel of
Luke.
And the reason we do that, if ifpeople are curious, and and
(04:58):
probably most people don't payattention, but some people I
know do.
And for those that do, uh thereason behind it I think would
be helpful.
And for those that don't payattention, I'd like to draw your
attention to it.
It it gives a cohesiveness tothe teaching that uh is good for
that student to follow up.
(05:19):
Like they go home and they canspend the next few weeks
studying that one gospel and seefamiliarity in those texts where
if you did one out of Matthew,one out of Mark, one out of
Luke, uh, some of those don'tlike there's stories that Luke
covers that Mark doesn't, or youknow, and so um then if you say
we'll go read all the gospels,which we want them to do, but
it's kind of a neat they couldthey could go that next week and
(05:41):
work through the I mean I workedthrough this past week I worked
back through the Gospel of Markjust looking for those, you
know, Rob's message was in Markchapter eight, and I I went back
through that a couple times.
So um that's why we do it thatway, but we're gonna get into
we'll get into the significanceof the title Son of Man, but I I
(06:02):
it was the Friday night introsermon, and I only did this on
Fall Retreat three.
The first two I didn't do it,but the last one on Friday night
I said I was gonna get to thepoint of Jesus has a bunch of
different names he's called inscripture.
Um but son of man is the one heprefers and uses the most of
(06:22):
himself, and the two jokes I wasnot jokes, but like the two
illustrations I was gonna use, Iwas gonna talk about nicknames.
Do you have a nickname that youprefer?
And then the second one, I wasgonna kind of make a joke about
when people speak in the firstperson or third person, right?
When they reference themselvesin the third person, you know,
like so.
If JB would be talking and shewould say, Well, JB's hungry, so
(06:44):
she's going to lunch.
You know, it it can be funny,but it can be weird.
Yeah.
But Jesus does it a lot where hesays, the son of man, and he'll
refer to himself in the thirdperson that way.
Um, so I was gonna, I was gonna,I had a little spoof I was gonna
do about people that talk aboutthemselves in the third person,
but I didn't get to it becausethe first part of it, I was
(07:04):
like, who's got a nickname?
I'm thinking in a room with 500people, between students and
staff, 500 people probably inthat room.
I needed uh give me somenicknames.
Which my wife is up there on thedrums, and so I'll I'll I'll
start.
I'll start let's get it rolling.
I call my wife Little for 30some years.
Everybody's called her little.
(07:25):
That's what she goes by.
That's a nickname.
Her name is not little, hername, little is not sure, her
name is not something with theword little in it.
So anyway, so hands start goingup, and the first hand goes up,
and I'm like, what you got?
And this kid is like, My name'sMadison, and everyone calls me
(07:45):
Maddie.
And I was like, Okay, well, inmy mind at this point, I'm
thinking that's not a nickname.
But I guess it is.
I don't know what's thedefinition of a nickname.
Maybe I'm the fool.
SPEAKER_01 (07:55):
Maybe I'm the yeah, I don't know strictly, but I
would say most people usenickname as yeah, it's not
actually your name.
Part of your name, yeah,shortened, yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (08:06):
Yeah, because what's your full name?
Uh Robert.
And what do we call you?
Rob.
And no one's going, oh, that'shis nickname.
Nope.
Yeah.
He's not really called.
SPEAKER_01 (08:15):
Every once in a while, I'll have somebody walk
up to me and say, Oh, so uh, andthey blink a lot.
Is Rob short for Robert?
And like, uh it's everything Ican do.
Not to be compared.
Not just to yeah, make it feelcompletely stupid, but like, you
know what it is?
It's I just dropped the Ertsound.
(08:38):
Just it's it's that name minusErt.
SPEAKER_05 (08:41):
Man, it's very creative.
Uh my dad, his name's Daryl, andhe pronounces it Daryl, but he
said his nickname is Darrell.
And I was like, he's trying toconvince everybody that when he
was younger, everybody wouldcall him Darrell as his
nickname.
And I'm like, you're delusional.
That's the same name with adifferent pronunciation.
(09:03):
That's all you do, right?
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (09:04):
And I'm like, okay, your name is My name's Xavier.
And you go by Zay.
Yeah.
That's see, that's abbreviated.
Is that a nickname?
Right.
We're just saying.
I would even say Joy Elizabeth,abbreviated down to JB.
Or Joy Beth.
Or Joy Beth.
JB, yeah.
Yeah, we're just shortness up.
Yes.
A nickname would be, you guyshave heard me talk about all the
(09:26):
guys, all the dudes in myfamily.
Right.
Yes.
Duke, Mooch, Paco, Cobb, Biggie.
Those are nicknames.
Yeah.
Agree?
Yes, agreed.
So when I said, Hey, uh, anynicknames, you know how many
nicknames we got?
Zero.
You know how many kids raisetheir all of them.
(09:48):
I'm thinking we need to do abreakout session on nicknames.
Here's what a nickname is.
Here's what qualifies.
That was pretty funny.
That is funny.
The one kid.
Finally, I couldn't take itanymore.
It was like, it was like theprobably the twelve.
And I should have just stoppedthe exercise.
I was like, I want to get onenickname and then I'll celebrate
it, you know.
I want one dude to say,Everybody calls me cornbread,
(10:08):
because when I was little, I atecornbread all the time, you
know, or whatever.
The one kid goes, and and andthey're all pointing at him, and
he's going, he's real excited.
So I'm like, what you got?
And his name was Cameron, and hesaid, But everybody just calls
me Cam.
And I was like, man, I was like,I I think I kind of see how they
got that.
SPEAKER_01 (10:28):
And they're like, mm-hmm.
They had a great time.
It it it was such a goodopening, maybe not for the point
that you heard driving to, butthey just all had such a good
time.
They were into it, they wereengaged.
Everybody's into it.
That's what it's like theirbuddies.
SPEAKER_06 (10:40):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (10:41):
That's funny.
SPEAKER_05 (10:42):
I feel like there might have been one guy.
I think he played football.
And he said, Everybody on myteam calls me this.
SPEAKER_06 (10:48):
It was still the major pain.
It was yeah, his last name wasPain.
Okay.
Everybody called him Major Pain.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (10:56):
That was a good one, but it's still part of his.
SPEAKER_06 (10:58):
Yeah.
That one would that one wouldmaybe have passed.
And I got real excited when oneguy said, My nickname's Link.
And I was like, Okay, all right.
What's your real name?
Lincoln.
Lincoln.
Never mind.
I got my hope so.
Okay.
Oh man.
That's funny.
So in the in the introductorymessage, we looked um on Friday
(11:22):
night, we looked into Danielchapter seven.
And then Rob referenced DanielSeven again on uh well, we
referenced it every sermon.
I I referenced it again Saturdaymorning.
Rob referenced it Sundaymorning.
Um I can't remember, Spencer'snot here, but I can't remember
if he referenced Daniel Seven.
(11:42):
I don't think he did.
SPEAKER_01 (11:43):
I did in one of them.
I think the first one, and thenhe kind of changed up uh Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (11:48):
I missed the first one.
His his first I heard him weekstwo and three.
And I didn't think I heard himuh reference it.
But the point being, you know,we wanted students to understand
the phrase son of man isextremely significant.
I mean extremely significantbecause it is a reference to a
(12:10):
vision that Daniel has in Danielchapter seven, which would have
which would have taken placeabout six centuries before Jesus
was on the earth.
And one of the things I love,love, love about Daniel's gospel
is that it's been authenticatedto have been written like like
the the timeline has beenauthenticated through textual
(12:33):
criticism.
So we know that Daniel waswritten and not changed.
It was written before, so Danielprophesies about the
Medo-Persian Empire, the GreekEmpire, the Roman Empire, and
then the coming of Jesus.
He prophesies all that stuff,and we can now look back at
history and see that it all cameto pass.
It's a really powerful, it's oneof those Daniel and and like the
(12:57):
great scroll of Isaiah that youhear people talk about that as
that is part of the Dead SeaScrolls.
Really strong defense for, man,we have copies of scripture that
can be authenticated.
So Daniel was written hundredsof years before Christ, but then
Jesus comes along and says, Oh,yeah, I'm the guy in Daniel 7,
(13:17):
because the prophecy of Daniel 7is you've got all these kingdoms
of the earth that that Danielsees brought before the throne
room of God, who's called theAncient of Days, and he brings
judgment against him.
And then Rob, I love the way youexplain how Jesus is then
brought in on clouds.
If you maybe how you did that onSunday morning was so good.
SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
So, you know, the the first clue is earlier on
because it says that you know,it's kind of like you're
Daniel's in his bed, but he'shaving this vision, and it says
that thrones are placed, andthen the Ancient of Days is
seated, but it referencesanother throne.
And so even that right there,you know, for us looking back,
(14:04):
you know, of course, you know,Jesus is gonna sit next to him,
but you know, that originalaudience who else who else sits
in throne next to the ancient ofdays, you know, the eternal God.
Uh but then yeah, then Jesusrides in in the clouds, like the
you know, doesn't say cloudchariot there, um, but that's
(14:25):
kind of the the imagery youshould have.
And but yeah, I so I think itwas when we were studying Daniel
for Red Oak, and I had Daniel 7,that was the chapter I was
assigned, or half of it.
And, you know, right away, youknow, there's all these you've
got like these vague memories orscripture that'll come up in
(14:48):
your mind, like, man, clouds area lot, you know, but I didn't
think much of it.
But then when I got into thestudy, you know, and I don't
necessarily like to use thisterm all the time, but like it
really is a motif.
There's there's a themethroughout the entire Bible from
beginning to end of God'spresence and clouds.
(15:10):
And so it's not accidental, andthey they all build on each
other.
Like so uh, you know, you thinkof Exodus, and you've got the
pillar of cloud that is leadingIsrael by day, and that
represents God's presence, hisprovision, his protection, his
guidance.
(15:31):
Um, and then you have the samething, you know, when Moses
begins to meet with God in thattent, right, and the cloud would
descend.
And then when he'd go up intothe mountain and the cloud would
descend, and he'd he'd meet withYahweh.
Um, and then when he's givingthe instruction for the
tabernacle, and he tells Moses,like, hey, tell this is actually
(15:55):
after Aaron's sons have messedup and the fire comes down and
consumes them.
And he tells Moses, tell yourbrother, don't just walk up into
the Holy of Holies.
Like, and he gives him specificinstruction about the Day of
Atonement, and he says, Mypresence in a cloud will rest
above the mercy seat.
And so the significance of God'spresence with the cloud is all
(16:19):
the way through.
Like, so when Dan, by the timeDaniel comes along, that's not
like a, oh, clouds, that's cool.
Like, it's a fluffy image.
It's a picture of divinepresence, authority, guidance,
illumination, like you know,like revelation.
Um, and so when he says, I sawone like a son of man coming on
(16:43):
the clouds of heaven, the reasonwhy he says like, because the
term son of man had been usedbefore in in scripture just as
human being.
But the connection of the son ofman riding the clouds is like,
okay, he looks like a humanbeing, but clearly he's divine.
(17:03):
And so then he comes in beforethe presence of the ancient of
days.
So you have God the Father, Godthe Son.
We use that languagetheologically, but it's it's
what's happening.
And Daniel's, he's putting itinto his terminology.
Um, and so then when Jesus picksup on it, he's making those
claims.
(17:24):
But yeah, so but the cloudsdon't stop there, you know, and
this is where I geeked out whenwe did the Roman the uh Daniel
study for Red Oak was okay, whendoes this take place?
Like timeline, and uh the theyou know, is it just Daniel
looking up into heaven and thisis going on in his day?
(17:47):
Does that even make sense?
You know, talking about okay,what's outside of time, what's
inside of time?
But what what caught myattention was Jesus is riding
the clouds into the throne room.
Uh, from where?
You know, and that was the thequestion I had, and and I found
(18:08):
awesome resources because it'slike okay, my mind went to the
Acts 1 scene, Jesus is ascendingpost-resurrection, he's he gives
the disciples finalinstructions, and he is it says
he is taken up in a cloud, okay,out of their sight.
(18:30):
Now, whether he continuedphysically traveling in that
cloud or, you know, eitherhowever far he traveled, but
what I believe is, and becausethen the angel says, Hey, he's
gonna come back in the same waythat you saw him go.
I believe, and you know, I say Ibelieve it's not my like this,
(18:50):
goes all the way back to thechurch fathers.
They made the same conclusionsof like Jesus ascends in the
clouds, and for him, the nextthing that happens is Daniel 7.
He's he's going uh into thepresence of the ancient of days,
having accomplished theatonement, and that's when he
(19:14):
receives uh the authority andokay, like dominion over
everything, of course, becausehe's just crushed the head of
the serpent, and he's justpurchased all the citizens of
his kingdom, right?
And and then, you know, fastforward time in time from our
(19:36):
perspective, you know, thenJesus had already made the
promises like in Matthew 24 andum Mark 13.
Uh, hey, you're gonna see theSon of Man come in the clouds
with glory, you know, and hisangels, he's he's coming back,
and then you get the Revelationuh 14, which is just uh should I
(19:57):
read that?
SPEAKER_06 (19:58):
Uh yeah.
Because in that one, he's comingback on the cloud, he's wearing
the crown.
He's got the crown and he's gota sickle.
SPEAKER_01 (20:06):
Oh yes.
SPEAKER_06 (20:07):
Because he's gonna bring a harvest.
Yes.
And which goes back to histeaching about like whatever you
sow, you're gonna reap.
But then also, isn't there aparable where Jesus Yeah Yeah,
so the idea when he's comingback with that sickle, he's
harvesting those he's gonnabring into his kingdom.
(20:28):
Right, but he's also you've gotthe picture of the grapes of
wrath, he's harvesting judgment,those that are coming under
judgment, and then it's thatvivid picture of the blood flow
into the bridle of the horse.
Anyway, you want to read it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:42):
Yeah, because okay, so yeah, I love that.
He yeah, the first time he came,he's sowing seed, it's his word,
it's the gospel, and when hereturns, he's harvesting all the
elect, uh, which is I think howMatthew he says it in Matthew,
like he's gonna come back andgather together from the four
winds and the corners of theearth all of his elect.
(21:03):
So, yeah, Revelation uh 14, 14.
Uh then I looked and behold, awhite cloud and seated on the
cloud.
So, you know, more that pictureof a chariot, right?
Not like Tom and Jerry cartoons.
Um, a white cloud and seated onthe cloud, one like a son of
man, exact same language asDaniel, with a golden crown on
(21:26):
his head.
So he's received that authorityin the Daniel 7 vision previous
to this, with a ground a goldencrown on his head and a sharp
sickle in his hand.
Another angel came out of thetemple, calling with a loud
voice to him who sat on thecloud, put in your sickle and
reap, for your hour to reap hascome, for the harvest of the
(21:48):
earth is fully ripe.
Exciting.
Uh so he who sat on the cloudswung his sickle across the
earth, and the earth was reaped.
So, like, yeah, that yourharvest is ripe.
Like the picture of the gospelhas done its work, like and the
church has proclaimed thegospel, and all those who are
(22:10):
have received it already, andhe's he's reaping, he's bringing
in the harvest.
SPEAKER_06 (22:16):
And that picture of him in that scene, he's riding
the clouds, yeah, with with thecrown, but he doesn't have a
sword, he's got that sickle.
Yeah.
And so kind of timeline the waythe way that you're describing
this, and what I think makes alot of sense would be Acts 1,
(22:37):
when Jesus is ascending, he'sascending into what Daniel 600
years prior saw, where he'scoming into the presence of God,
and then Revelation is he'sleaving that place to come bring
about his harvest.
SPEAKER_01 (22:50):
So then John, yeah, John's looking at it, you know,
for him, whatever 60-ish yearsafter he saw Jesus go, ascend
into the cloud, now he has thisvision of Jesus coming back on
the cloud, uh, which I wouldbelieve.
I know there's different viewson this, and I don't fall into a
camp, but I believe that'sfuture.
(23:12):
That hasn't happened yet.
You know, that wasn't I don't Idon't think it was when the
temple was destroyed.
I think this is still pointingforward to the the end of days.
SPEAKER_06 (23:20):
Yeah, I think so.
And uh it's exciting because inall of those well, in the Daniel
7 passage and in the Revelation14 passage, he's called the Son
of Man.
SPEAKER_02 (23:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (23:36):
So then for Jesus to continually refer to himself as
the Son of Man, I mean it's areally big statement, and it was
a statement that infuriated thereligious leaders.
SPEAKER_01 (23:45):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (23:46):
Because we see that progression in the in the Gospel
of Mark.
SPEAKER_02 (23:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (23:50):
Yeah.
I really appreciate because likelooking back to when I was in
youth or when I was in highschool, I really thought like
Old Testament is just like anold book of laws and really old
stories and genealogy, but theNew Testament is where it's at.
Like that's pretty much all Iread, which okay, but I
appreciate how always in sermonsyou guys do such a good job of
(24:14):
like bridging that gap to makeit easy to understand for middle
school and high schoolers to belike, oh wait, this is talked
about in the old testament, andnow we're talking about it in
the new testament.
And like, one, obviously that'sjust kind of mind-blowing and
like really cool, but I thinkfor me, like in high school,
that would have been even moremind-blowing of like, wait, no,
they're saying the same thing,like they are agreeing, and it's
(24:37):
not just an old book of laws orgenealogy, it's like it is
referring to what is to come andwhat will come and stuff.
So I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:47):
That's cool.
It's because it's like the NewTestament brings that clarity to
what was happening in the oldtestament, but the old testament
gives depth to yourunderstanding in the New
Testament that you you justwouldn't have without it, you
know.
SPEAKER_04 (25:02):
Right.
That's a good point.
SPEAKER_06 (25:04):
The uh the Friday morning well I'm uh Friday
evening rather message.
I did a an exercise withstudents where we looked at
every reference in the Gospel ofMark where Jesus uses the phrase
Son of Man.
And we said each of these willfall into one category.
(25:25):
It's either a reference to hisauthority or his suffering or
his glory.
And that was a fun exercise.
I got a lot of good feedbackfrom that, and I got a lot of
feedback from our small groupleaders.
They use that to sort ofspringboard through each share
group.
SPEAKER_04 (25:42):
And Spencer and Rob both kind of like use that as
well.
And I thought it got a lot oflike acknowledgement and crowd
participation.
SPEAKER_01 (25:52):
Yeah.
Yeah, which you know, when wehad met previous to the first
retreat, like you hadn't thathadn't been part of the
conversation.
And so the first time I heard itwas the first time students
heard it, but it just it clickedand it did it, it uh galvanized
everything, you know, where itwas like, okay, that's that's
(26:13):
what's gonna tie everythingtogether so neatly.
Where I was like, Oh, I know, Imean, the passage doing Mark
chapter eight, yeah, sufferingis the heart of it, and then
glory is on the back part of it,you know, like his suffering
leading to glory.
SPEAKER_06 (26:28):
Well, it was interesting because when we met
going into that week or cominguh towards the end of that week
as we were going into theweekend, I had not that was I
had prepared to speak um at theend of Mark Two, where he says,
the Son of Man is Lord even overthe Sabbath.
Right.
I was gonna start right thereand then go into the first seven
(26:52):
verses of Mark III.
That's the end of Mark Two, andthen the next passage he goes
into the synagogue on theSabbath and heals a guy's hand.
And I was gonna make the pointJesus uses the phrase Son of Man
to show that he's Lord over theSabbath or that he has authority
over the law.
But when you were breaking downwhere you were gonna go on
(27:13):
Sunday morning, that's what gotso I've actually adjusted to I
was like, okay, uh because I'malways if I go first, if I can
know where y'all are going, Ijust try to set that up to like
if we can link everythingtogether.
Because there's times where wedo a sermon series and we never
quite on the front end get itconnected where it's seamless.
(27:36):
But when we can, it really doeshelp with the flow.
And in the summer, it's not ascritical because there's ten
sermons and a bunch ofbreakouts.
But in the when we're when wegot a retreat with four sessions
and a lot of kids are gonna missone of them, then if we can
connect them and and give it onecohesive thought.
(27:57):
Yeah.
So knowing that you were gonnago to suffering and
understanding that the sufferingof Jesus is what led to his
glory, right?
We have to paint that picture.
SPEAKER_05 (28:07):
I think something, and I know I talked to you about
this, Rob, but I thinkthroughout the first three, it
was really uh easily grasped.
I think by staff and studentsand youth leaders alike, of
like, okay, this is when you'retalking about how Jesus is Lord
over the Sabbath, okay, this isshowing Jesus' authority.
And then we talked a lot aboutJesus' suffering, but I thought
(28:29):
something that was really cool.
Not only did it come at the endof like it was Rob's final
sermon, but it was at the end ofyour sermon where it talked
about glory at the very end, andyou kind of explained, okay,
what is glory?
Because we're talking aboutriding on the clouds, we're
talking about like Jesus iscoming from the sky, like these
things could be a little bitconfusing because if if I'm a
(28:50):
little guy in middle school, I'mlike, oh yeah, I'm expecting to
see like clouds and light and alittle flaky dust, you know.
So like what is glory?
And so I think it was reallycool whenever you actually
explained what is it and whatdoes that mean?
Yeah, that there's glory that'sbeing revealed, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (29:08):
And once again, not even tied into Brody talking
about his his conquest didn'tcome through a violent war, it
came through the cross, and likeit just all ties together
perfectly.
It's so good, yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (29:22):
Yeah, kingdom through the cross, not through
conquest.
Yeah.
And the uh on Saturday morning,we looked at the first two Son
of Man statements by Jesus.
The first one is when the guy,the paralytic, is healed, and
his friends get him up on theroof and they lower him down.
And I actually did that, I didthat text as a sermon uh during
(29:44):
the series on the miracles ofChrist.
SPEAKER_02 (29:46):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (29:47):
Um, or the author or the Luke authority of Jesus
Hunger.
But anyway, yeah, I had donethat recently where that that
text was the sermon.
But so we we looked at webriefly looked at that and keyed
in on the Son of Man statementbecause.
They lower this guy.
All of the religious leaders arethere.
And Jesus, before he heals him,says, Your sins are forgiven.
(30:11):
And it's just it's a reallyinteresting visual.
Like to imagine being there.
And these guys have loweredtheir friend.
They've gone to great lengths toget their friend in front of
Jesus, including cutting a holein the roof, getting him down in
front of Jesus, and Jesus thefirst words out of his mouth.
I mean, I I picture a pausewhile they get this hole cut.
SPEAKER_02 (30:34):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (30:35):
You know, the f the the blade of the shovel pops
through, but it takes some time.
Like, did everyone stop andwatch?
Did everyone back up and thedust is falling?
I picture particles of dirtfalling and then the first rays
of light come through.
And but they got to get it bigenough for to shove this guy
through.
The picture I paint for the kidsis it's a tiny hole.
(30:56):
They shove him through feetfirst.
Because my my childhood flannelgraph image is he's being
lowered on a stretcher.
unknown (31:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
Yeah.
What what would you do?
Would you cut one that lower himthat way?
Or yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (31:08):
Would you cut a six by three hole, six feet long by
three feet wide, and lower himon a stretcher, or would you get
an 18-inch hole that you couldget his little atrophied legs
shoved through and just kind ofpush him through with a rope
under his arms and lower him thesix feet.
There's low ceilings, you know.
I mean, by the time the guy'shead clears the ceiling, his
feet are almost on the floor.
It was and just get him downthere.
(31:30):
What a what a disturbing, diwhat a disrupting scene to what
Jesus is doing.
Jesus is sitting there waxingeloquent, answering the scribes'
questions.
He's he's philosophizing,philosophying, whatever that
word would be.
He's he's having theologicaldiscussion and discourse, and
then hole in the roof, and theylower that guy, and Jesus does
(31:51):
not heal him.
He says, Your sins are forgiven.
And those guys, in in the text,Jesus reads their mind.
It says he knows their thoughtsand he answers the question
that's in their mind, which is,Who's he think he is?
Right.
Forgive sins, which isinteresting because they expect
him to heal the guy, right?
(32:11):
But they don't recognize him asGod.
So he's so he responds to theirthoughts by saying, What do you
think is easier?
To forgive this guy's sins or toheal him?
I'll heal him, rise, take upyour bed and walk, boom, he does
it.
But he says, This is a it goesback to the the series we did on
miracles.
The miracles are signs pointingto the identity of Christ.
And so in that story, what wehave is his authority.
(32:33):
He says, I have the authority toforgive sin.
So he right out of the gate, andwe told students, Jesus declared
himself to be Lord, he hedeclared himself to be God in
the flesh.
Anyone that ever says he didn'tis not is not studying the
gospels because it's there.
Um when he declared himself tobe the Son of Man who came to
(32:55):
forgive sins, he's saying, I'mthe guy in Daniel 7.
And this and the work hasstarted.
And and so that first and thenthe the end of chapter two is
where he declares himself to beLord over the Sabbath.
So we started with authority, weget to suffering that leads to
glory.
So I do think it's helpful tounderstand, and for those that
(33:16):
are listening who are teachers,if you can teach the authority
of Jesus, too many people onlyfocus on his authority and it
becomes sort of heavy-handed,legalistic just do the rules
because he's a righteous judge.
But more people focus on thelove and gentleness because he's
gentle and lowly, and they butbut you can't do that and cash
(33:41):
out on his authority.
SPEAKER_02 (33:42):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (33:43):
It's both.
Yeah.
So the authority is established,which makes the suffering so
such an a huge theological piecebecause he has authority to
forgive sins, he's Lord of theSabbath, he has authority over
the law, and I'm gonna sufferfor my people.
Right.
Um, which then leads to hisglory.
SPEAKER_01 (34:03):
Yeah, yeah.
For for himself being, you know,reunited with the glory that he
had with the Father before thefoundation of the earth, but
then the the humbling part forus is so that he can bring many
sons to glory.
Many sons to glory.
Yeah, which is you know, you goback to the cloud uh theme, you
(34:25):
know, Jesus is promising us thatwe'll be caught up into the
clouds.
Like it's not just, oh, you'regonna travel to the sky, which I
hope we do.
Right.
Because yes, that's gonna be anawesome moment in and of itself.
But it but what he's saying is,you're entering into my glory,
like you're entering into myvery presence.
(34:46):
Like that's that's the hope.
SPEAKER_06 (34:48):
Man, what a cool thought.
Yeah, that phrase, many sons toglory, bringing many sons to
glory.
SPEAKER_04 (34:54):
I know Spencer's not here, but I loved his session
this weekend.
The like main, I guess, takeawayor like call to action at the
end was get away and spend timein prayer.
And like Jesus put a lot ofemphasis and um intentionality
in that.
So, like, are you?
And I got to work with studentsthat last weekend, follow treat
(35:15):
three, and that was really good.
They responded really well tothat, and all of them were like,
Man, I don't even do that.
Like, and it just turned into areally cool conversation.
Of like, at one point, I thinkhe says a lot of times we'll try
to rest and relax by scrollingor like watching something, and
that is the opposite of rest,like in our brains, we're like,
(35:35):
Oh yeah, I'm resting.
Right.
Um, so that turned into a reallycool conversation.
So really grateful for Spencer'ssession.
That was really cool.
SPEAKER_06 (35:43):
So good.
And he did uh he looked at Jesusinteracting with the demons.
Yeah.
Um which those are some of myfavorite passages in scripture
anyway.
Um when you talk aboutauthority, he has author because
that that's we always try toanytime I'm talking about Satan
(36:06):
or demons or devils withstudents, I try to help them
understand.
We we as a ministry, we've donethis a lot, and from breakouts
to sermons to share groupconversations to help them
understand the devil is not likethe counterpart to Jesus, is not
yin yin and yang or whateverthat thing is, or it's not like
(36:26):
um you know, when you think ofum Marvel movies or uh Disney f
Disney stories from childhoodwhere you've got the the
villain, the great villain andthe great hero, and they're
going at it.
SPEAKER_05 (36:39):
And it's like, oh, who's gonna win?
Who's gonna win?
You never know.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (36:42):
Yeah.
In those interactions with thedemons, um Jesus establishes his
authority and something thatstood out in Spencer's I want I
want to um close by pointing outsomething from Spencer's sermon
and something from Rob's sermonthat for me were my big
takeaways from those twosermons.
Spencer's sermon, my bigtakeaway was um he he doesn't
(37:08):
when Jesus tells the heprohibits the demons from from
declaring him to be the son ofman.
And I've always heard that andI've even taught it like I've
always said Jesus is gonnareveal these things in his time.
But Spencer made a great point.
He said, He said, Jesus issaying, Don't go, I don't want
(37:30):
you to be the one who'sspreading theology.
I'm gonna reveal this the wayI'm gonna reveal it.
Right.
You don't have the authority togo reveal this.
Right.
So he binds them to silence.
SPEAKER_02 (37:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (37:41):
Is a really cool point because I've always
thought because you see thatwhere Jesus says, Don't tell
anybody, don't tell.
And he'll say it to people too.
He'll heal a guy, you know, heheals the leper at the end of
Mark 1, and he's like, Don'ttell anybody.
And then the guy's like, goes,he goes and he's screaming and
hollering.
What's Jesus' motive for that?
Well, to maintain order, he'sgot a he's got a strategy and a
plan, and he's moving in acertain way, and it creates
(38:02):
chaos anytime this gets, youknow, gets spread the wrong way.
But there's not there's not thistheological framework of Jesus
revealing that he is the son ofman.
So when the demons, when Jesusbinds the demons to silence,
Spencer made the point he's notallowing them to go say
(38:25):
theological things.
Yeah, they don't get to goidentify, they're not gonna get
it right anyway.
Yeah, um, I thought that wassuper interesting.
I I talked to Spencer aboutthat.
I've never thought of this.
And then Rob, from your message,I think I texted you after the
last week and just said, uh, Ihave never thought of this, but
when Jesus is hanged on thecross, we know they hung they
(38:50):
killed people and they theystripped them naked.
That part of the humiliation wasthat they were naked, completely
exposed, and Jesus hanging onthe cross, naked under the
weight of sin.
You drew a parallel to Adam andEve realizing their nakedness in
the garden.
SPEAKER_04 (39:08):
That was good.
SPEAKER_06 (39:09):
Um, I was really good.
SPEAKER_04 (39:10):
Yeah.
And even like that, I guess Ijust never thought obviously
being crucified on the cross ishumiliating, but Rob, you always
do such a good job of likeputting that in to perspective
and like bringing that emotionof like, yeah, that is horrible.
And like, even kind of said onall the children's books or
flannel flannel graphs, it'slike he's got a little cloth on
(39:31):
or whatever, but it's like, no,he was like that is so
humiliating.
He was naked, yeah, bearing theweight of our sins, like even
that alone.
But then drawing, I think youdrew another parallel.
SPEAKER_05 (39:42):
Yeah, it was the uh the the crown of thorns.
SPEAKER_04 (39:45):
Yes, yeah, yeah, that was so good.
SPEAKER_05 (39:47):
I think both of those kind of what you were
saying, and if you want tofinish up your thought, but I
thought between the both ofthose, it brings like the
emotion, the reality of it, notin just terms of like this is
humiliating, like you were justsaying, JB, it's not just that
it's humiliating, like Jesus isbearing the weight, he's
(40:08):
becoming the curse.
Because in Genesis, which Ithink this goes back to the
point that we were makingearlier about the parallels
between the Old Testament andthe New.
Well, you see in Genesis inchapter three, whenever the
curse is is starting to take itseffect, God says to Adam, Now
the ground's gonna bring forththorns.
(40:30):
And you immediately see thateffect that's that's happening
from his sin.
And then you fast forward many,many years later, and Jesus is
literally physically wearing acrown of thorns, which is like
symbolizing I'm wearing, I'mbecoming a curse, right?
And I'm taking it on.
And so I just think that thatpoint is is so powerful when it
(40:51):
really hits home that you'relike, okay, this is real.
He's really bearing the weight,he's bearing the sin.
He's he's in this moment takingon the punishment that all of
mankind should have had.
So, I mean, just just seeingthat it was such a cool point.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (41:06):
Yeah, in the garden, the thorns and thistles, the
nakedness that is exposed, Jesuson the cross, naked and
humiliated, suffering for oursin with the thorn, the the
crown of thorns on his head.
Yeah, this is a powerfulimagery.
Right.
The only thing I hated was thatyou did that Sunday morning.
SPEAKER_01 (41:25):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (41:26):
That should have probably been Saturday morning
because that needed some sharegroup discussion.
And they got it.
I mean, they they had they wentto share groups, but that was
powerful.
Yes.
Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (41:36):
And it, you know, it it's like the reality of it.
For me, it takes it from I mean,I think for sure, I know you
feel this way, maybe y'all dotoo, depending on how you're
raised.
You know, it's when I first reada story or I'm hearing somebody
preach, I'm constantly fightingagainst flannographs.
(42:00):
And and I'm so thankful forthat, like at that stage of my
life, like it was awesome.
Or, you know, uh a cartoon uhversion of a Bible story or even
a movie that you know, likeJesus of Nazareth, that's I
watched that, you know, Easteras long as I can remember.
But it you know, visually it waspretty tame, you know, for the I
(42:25):
think it was made in the 70s,you know.
So I'm always fighting againstthat and trying to like go to
the reality of it.
And for some reason, those twothings for me make it so vivid
and graphic, but like in a in avery realistic way.
And but it's also like I lovethe like master storytelling
(42:52):
part of it.
Like you know, you know, one ofthe things we always you know,
you say about the Bible, youlisten to a guy like Wes Huff
and like how everything's tiedtogether and how many different
authors, different continents,different languages, but the one
story throughout it all, andyou're like, Oh, you know, and
(43:12):
it's not necessarily an evidencein and of itself, but I stand
back and all and go, only God,only God weaving in yeah, the
nakedness, what does thatrepresent?
The thorns, what does thatrepresent?
And then, okay, Jesus on thecross naked with the crown of
thorns, you know, and it's justlike my and it's why we love
(43:33):
stories to begin with.
Every culture loves stories, andit's because like that's the
that's the construct for us tounderstand the story, you know.
It's just yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (43:48):
There was a guy, I was talking to a guy the other
day, he's missionary in theCongo for 70, second generation
missionary.
Wow, phenomenal storyteller, andhe's like I I said the other
day, I the other day I washaving a conversation with
someone about this guy.
I talked to this guy probably 10years ago.
(44:10):
But the other day, yesterday,day four, we're having having a
conversation.
We're we're kind of retellingsome stories this guy told, and
this guy's still living, he's inhis 80s now.
But when I met him, he was like71 years old.
He was third generation Congomissionary to the Congo.
Wow.
So his grandfather went into theCongo in 1918.
(44:33):
It was right after World WorldWar I, and it was like the first
missionaries to get in there, atleast in this area.
And then his this guy's fatherwas born in like that's around
that time, so was was born inthe Congo, or maybe was a little
baby when they got there.
And then this guy was born in1950 or 40, I think 1945.
(44:58):
So during the during World WarII, they're in the Congo, like
just they literally threegenerations of missionary work.
So when I got this, when I metthis guy in his early 70s, he
had just come out of there.
And so he, I'm like uh, and Ihad the opportunity to spend
several hours with this guy.
And I said, Would you pleasetell me, take me to your
(45:19):
childhood, it's 1955, you're 10years old, you live in the
Congo, and I just got himtelling stories.
SPEAKER_02 (45:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (45:27):
And it was riveting.
He told me stories about becausenowadays it's very difficult to
like like you can't go hunt wildgame in Africa.
You gotta pay these massiveexorbitant fees and go through
these outfitters andprofessional guide services.
So this dude grew up in a timewhere there was still wildlife
that that every year they woulddo a feast where they would go,
(45:49):
these two missionary families inthe 50s and 60s, they'd go out
and they would hunt for threeweeks.
SPEAKER_02 (45:55):
Wow.
SPEAKER_06 (45:56):
And they had this like off-roading Jeep, World War
II era Jeep rig, and they wouldkill two or three Impala, they'd
throw them on the back of thisJeep, drive them the 20 miles
back, and they would get themall you know, cut up, and the
villagers would start preparingthe meat.
They go back out and hunt.
And like he told me a storyabout getting stalked by a lion,
(46:16):
and I'm just they're they're ona perch overlooking this this uh
valley where they're waiting onthis herd of black buck or water
buck or impala or something tocome through, and they and they
don't realize a tribe or what dothey call it, pride, a pride of
lines is coming up the hillbehind them, and he they kill
the front one.
It's like this dude, I mean, I'mjust on the edge of my seat
(46:38):
listening to this old guy tellstories.
He told a funny story about umbeing in a truck, they're in an
old land cruiser chasing this,they're driving one night and
they see this.
It was like uh some kind of uhan antelope type animal, and
they they're chasing this thingacross the savannah or whatever,
trying to run it down, and theyfinally they catch, they they
(47:01):
hit it with the bumper and rollit, and then one of the dudes
jumps out and and gets a knifeinto its throat.
And and uh it was so crazy tolisten to this guy tell stories,
and I'm like, the word of God,we're we're tuned.
Our hearts and imaginations aretuned for storytelling.
And if people one of the thingswe we want to do at Snowbird,
(47:22):
and I think we I think we got itright on this Son of Man series,
we want to engage thatimagination that people have so
that they see the story ofscripture coming to light in
their minds.
And what a master storytellerdoes is they bring you into that
moment and they help you to seeit play out in real time.
I I told somebody recently, Ilove what they've done with The
(47:45):
Chosen.
I love that series.
It's phenomenal, it'sstorytelling, and it's most
amazing, it's it's done so well.
I personally have not enjoyed itas much as a lot of people, not
because of because it's notsound, but because I've already
painted pictures of all thesepeople in my mind.
Right, right.
It's like if someone's up whatyou've yeah, yeah, if someone
(48:06):
played y'all in a in a sketch,I'm like, no, no, no, no, you
know, or if you've read thebook, right, created the images,
and then you watch the movie,you know.
Right.
But and so for me, it myimagination is already so
engaged with scripture.
But one of the reasons I lovewhat they've done with that
series, or with you know, whatwhat Mel Gibson did with the
(48:26):
Passion of Christ 20 years agonow, it engages the imagination.
And if if students will leavehere having these visual images
that we've tried to paintthrough scripture um and go home
and become students of the word,it just changes the dynamic of
how you see Christ, how you seethe word of God.
SPEAKER_05 (48:47):
I think uh in a similar vein to what you're
saying, or I guess maybe in incontrast, so you already have
these images in your mind ofmaybe what specific people like
what Peter or some of the otherdisciples might look like and
they're portrayed in this inthis show, and you're like, oh
man, I didn't think they werelike that, but that's just a
show.
(49:07):
And so I think it's really coolfor students.
Maybe they already have acertain image of what some
scripture might look like intheir mind, or maybe they might
have a certain view of thegospel, and then they come to
Snowbird and they're hearingsound teaching and they're
hearing the word exposited ortaught as it should be, and
because they already had apreconceived notion, now they
(49:29):
can come in and say, Oh, this ishow it actually should be, and
it's different because it's theauthority of scripture, not a TV
series.
You know, so if their view mightbe a little bit skewed or it
might be a little bit off, yes,I did have a certain view before
I came here, but now I see thescriptures as they should be,
and it can completely, like yousaid, draw them into it and then
help them to see it as it trulyis, and then uh Jesus, as much
(49:52):
as he's revealed himself to us,is then seen by whoever is is uh
listening, and I think that's socool.
SPEAKER_06 (50:00):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (50:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (50:03):
Well, got marriage conference coming up this
weekend.
Yep.
We'll maybe maybe we'll doanother one of these to wrap
that up.
We'll see.
We'll see how it goes.
We got a lot, we got a hugelineup of NSR.
SPEAKER_02 (50:15):
Yes.
SPEAKER_06 (50:16):
As we're recording this, we're getting ready to sit
down to do parts two and threeof an episode with uh a guest
that I'm really excited forpeople to hear from.
Um and we're in the middle of anamazing lineup on NSR right now.
The feedback I'm getting iscrazy.
Had somebody talk to me thismorning who had dropped by camp
and just said, Man, I wasweeping listening to the second
(50:37):
episode of the Emily and LewisEmily Foreman.
Yeah.
Um just powerful, man.
That yeah, that episode thatwould have been not this past
Monday, but the Monday before.
Everybody I've talked to that'slistened to that has just said,
Oh my goodness, I'm I'm blownaway.
Like I I literally had to pullmy car over.
Or I'd talk to one guy, he said,Man, I was on the tractor, I
(50:58):
think he was bush hogging orcutting corn or something, a
farmer up in the Midwest thathad texted me and or messaged me
and said, Hey, I just listenedto the part two of Emily
Foreman's story, and I literallyam weeping in in the cab of my
tractor.
Yeah.
Pretty cool.
Um, but we've got a couple more,we've got part two to the Ann
Tuttle, which gives gets reallyintense because it gets into
(51:19):
Ann's story.
SPEAKER_04 (51:20):
Story, yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (51:21):
And that's coming up um next Monday.
And then I'm excited for thenext couple of guests we've got
that'll take up four or fiveepisodes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (51:30):
Yeah, good stuff.
SPEAKER_06 (51:32):
But hopefully this is encouraging and we'll follow
up, maybe, maybe do somethingafter the marriage retreat.
Yeah.
It won't be this long, but um,thank y'all for coming on.
I really wanted to unpack allthis.
Such a go go do a study on theSon of Man.
Go dig in.
Look at Daniel 7, look atRevelation 14, and look at every
time Jesus calls a chance.
Everything in between.
(51:52):
Everything in between, andyou'll cover the basis.
Yeah.
Uh thank y'all.
SPEAKER_00 (51:58):
Yeah.
Thanks for listening to NoSanity Required.
Please take a moment tosubscribe and leave a rating.
It really helps.
Visit us at swoutfitters.com tosee all of our programming and
resources.
And we'll see you next week onNo Sanity Required.
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
The Brothers Ortiz
The Brothers Ortiz is the story of two brothers–both successful, but in very different ways. Gabe Ortiz becomes a third-highest ranking officer in all of Texas while his younger brother Larry climbs the ranks in Puro Tango Blast, a notorious Texas Prison gang. Gabe doesn’t know all the details of his brother’s nefarious dealings, and he’s made a point not to ask, to protect their relationship. But when Larry is murdered during a home invasion in a rented beach house, Gabe has no choice but to look into what happened that night. To solve Larry’s murder, Gabe, and the whole Ortiz family, must ask each other tough questions.