Her Loss is Great, But God is Greater | No Sanity Story

Before Snowbird had cabins or kitchens, it had creek showers, porta potties, and a small group of people committed to building something that would last. Anne (Tully) Tuttle was one of them. A quiet new believer who first came as a student, she eventually joined the staff—shaped not by hype, but by Scripture, discipleship, and people who showed up.

In this episode, Anne shares what those early summers were really like. She also reflects on the 2007 accident that changed everything for the Snowbird team—and how grief, community, and worship shaped her in the years that followed.

Tune in to hear her wild No Sanity story.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:11):
Welcome to No Sanity Required from the Ministry of
Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters,a podcast about the Bible,
culture, and stories from aroundthe globe.

SPEAKER_01 (00:21):
So let's talk about what was your first.
Okay, our our first summer.
So my buddy Rob brought somestudents up in the summer 97.
We had a camp out.
I wasn't even here for the wholeweek.
They just came up and stayed onthe property.
I was still at the other camp,came here, then moved after that
summer.
Summer of 98, we ran one week ofcamp.
We ran an ad.

(00:42):
I've told I tell the story inthe book, and it's hilarious.
And we we got David Thompsonconvinced to bring a group from
Centergrove.
Our lead pastor at Red Oak,Joseph Tucker, was from that
church.

SPEAKER_03 (00:54):
Oh, okay.
Was he in that group?

SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
He wasn't in that group, he's too young.
But he, because Joseph wasprobably like sixth grade then.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02):
But that's how old we are now.
But and he didn't grow up inthat youth group.
He grew up at Calvary Baptistacross town from there and then
became the youth pastor atCenter Grove.
Okay.
So when he came to us, he was ayouth pastor at Centergrove.
That was the first church thatever came for a week of camp.
But then the next summer '99, weran like six weeks of camp, had
a few groups come, and then insummer of 2000, we ran a full

(01:25):
summer.
It was like eight weeks, ahundred kids a week or
something, and you came to camp.

SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
I did.
Yeah, it was interesting becauseJoe Strange was the was my youth
pastor then with first Baptist.
Shout out to Joe Strange ofIslands in Savannah.
And it was it was interestingbecause he was the new youth
pastor.
I was new to the faith.
So I got saved at the Baptistchurch by happenstance.
The Lord just led me there tohear a testimony of a young man

(01:51):
who had accidentally shothimself in the head.
He survived.
I heard about his story inscience class and knew I needed
to go listen to his actualstory, which then led me to FBC
Islands on a Wednesday night tohear his story.
Well, that night the Lord moved,that was December 8th of 99.
I got saved, um, prayed toreceive Christ, and then
everything was changed.

(02:12):
I got involved deeply in thatchurch.
And like I said, Joe was new,and he, I guess he saw the ad.
And in some because that'sthat's what I remember him
saying.
Like he saw an ad.
Before then, they had gone tothe beach for their youth group,
like summer camp thing.

SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
He already kind of lived at the beach.

SPEAKER_02 (02:27):
Yes.
And so he, I remember he made hemade the packing list.
He was trying to make sure wedidn't have a clue where we were
going, which really chapped thehides of all the people who
wanted to go back to the beach.
I didn't care.
I was like, I get to go tosummer camp.
But he's like, pack ski bootsand flip-flops or whatever.
And so when we pulled up on thecampgrounds, I mean, it was bare

(02:48):
bones.
I mean, there was there was themetal building.
Wow.
And there was, I mean, there'slots of trees.
There's like how many cabins?
One or two?

SPEAKER_01 (02:57):
Yeah, there's a couple cabins.

SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
And then there's porta potties.

SPEAKER_01 (02:59):
A few tents.

SPEAKER_02 (03:00):
Yeah, porta potties, the outdoor showers back by the
wreck um shed.

SPEAKER_01 (03:05):
And even the metal building, I don't know if you'd
remember this, but we had justbuilt it right before that
summer, and so it didn't have akitchen in it, no bathrooms.
It wasn't framed inside.
It was just a building.
Yep.

SPEAKER_02 (03:16):
Yeah, because yeah, because I think, yeah, because
even the upstairs in the metalbuilding wasn't there.

SPEAKER_01 (03:21):
I framed that out the next winter.
Yeah.
Me and Paul Baxter.
Did you do you remember what weate for food?

SPEAKER_02 (03:27):
Oh, I think we catered.
Like there was like Subway orthere was a McDonald's and
Andrews Inn.
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
McDonald's cheeseburgers one day.
Subway one day.
Uh KFC out there.

SPEAKER_02 (03:38):
Yep, yep, I think so.
Was there a barbecue?
I don't know.
But yeah, I do remember theSubway sandwiches.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
Be soggy.

SPEAKER_02 (03:45):
I know.
So we, you know, we pulled upand everyone was like, We I hate
this.
You know, like, what are youdoing, Joe?
Oh, it was.
Um, but then it was reallyawesome because as we were
leaving, everyone was tellingJoe, if you don't bring us back
here next summer, we're comingwithout you, Joe.
Wow.
So it was even like in afive-day span.
I mean, the whole attitude ofeverybody had shifted upside

(04:07):
down on its head.
And I was a brand new believer,pretty shy.
I didn't have like deepconnections with that youth
group by any means.
But I remember Jenny, what washer last name?
Do you remember?

SPEAKER_01 (04:18):
She was um she's married now.
Um, Jenny, she's from Atlanta.
She's from close to where youlive now.

SPEAKER_02 (04:23):
Oh, she is?
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
Yeah.
She was from FBC Woodstock.
Okay.
Jenny Andrews.

SPEAKER_02 (04:28):
Yep.
She was awesome.
I mean, she just I remember whenI left that week, because I went
and got some just randomt-shirts from the thrift store
to bring and which we neededbecause we got trashed.
Oh mud and yeah, oh yeah, justsliding the.
I guess on maybe it wasThursdays, it did some like fun
relay race thing.
It got super dirty.

(04:48):
I remember spitting worms, likethat was part of it, like into
cups or whatever.
And I mean the whole campus, Imean, you the obstacle course
around the whole campus.

SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
Yeah, because there was two cabins and a few tents.
So, like now where the snackshack is, that whole below that
over there was all woods.
It was all wooded.

SPEAKER_02 (05:05):
There was no bridge to go over.

SPEAKER_01 (05:07):
There was a thing called the Eco Challenge back
then.
It was a big, it was a bigadventure race that had been
popularized.
It was like like it was kind ofthat was the upstart of the X
games.
And so there was this racecalled the Eco Challenge.
It was like a 400-mile racewhere you had to mountain bike,
climb, repel, run, ruck, nap,land nav, all this stuff.

(05:28):
And it would be like on ESPN, itwould show up once a year or
Discovery Channel, somethinglike that.
So we decided to have the uhlike we had our version of the
eco challenge, the race aroundcamp.
I forget what we called it.
I don't remember either.
We called it the geco challenge.
And it was like this bigobstacle course you had to crawl
through like oh slop.

SPEAKER_02 (05:45):
Like the food, yes.
Oh my goodness.
Yes, I mean yes, it wasstaffing.
It was gross.
Well, and mind you, we had theoutdoor showers as our option,
which is pulling water from thecreek, you know, sweet little
creek water.

SPEAKER_01 (05:59):
Were illegal.

SPEAKER_02 (06:00):
Yeah, it was so fun.

SPEAKER_01 (06:02):
It was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 (06:02):
It's crazy.
And so I remember like, yeah, sowe just like had a had a good
old time, and then I remember,but Jenny, Jenny was so kind.
I remember leaving and justbeing totally impacted by her
kindness and how intentional shewas.
I mean, I left when I left camp,I remember writing a letter and
like to every person on staff,like a little blurb about like

(06:24):
how grateful I was for theirinvolvement in my week, you
know, and just hearing thegospel and you running into the
metal building, slamming yourbody into the the the wall.

SPEAKER_01 (06:35):
Yep.
Nobody knows about it, but Istill have my right elbow.
I've got a broken, a chip bonein my elbow from doing it so
many times.

SPEAKER_02 (06:43):
Well, and you mean it wasn't like I'm gonna act
like I'm gonna hit it.
You like throw your whole bodyinto it.

SPEAKER_01 (06:49):
Yeah, when I was 20, let's see, so I was like 28, I
thought, oh, I'll have this bodyforever.
Nope.
Nope.
Definitely not.

SPEAKER_03 (06:56):
Yeah.
Wait, how big was the staff?

SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
This 20.
Okay.
22.
Yeah.
Staff with 22 people includethat's count me and little.

SPEAKER_02 (07:05):
Yeah, that is crazy.
It was pretty awesome.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (07:10):
And I think y'all brought like 60 kids.
Probably, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (07:13):
It was a big charter bus.

SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
Yeah, and I think there was some other people
there.
A couple small churches.
Yep, I think there were.

SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
Yep, because I have random pictures.
When I had film camera, youknow, I have pictures of these
random people.
Yep, yep.
That is cool.
Yep.
That's that looks pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 (07:27):
It looks so different than it looks now.
I mean, we had we were threeyears old.

SPEAKER_02 (07:31):
Well, even like the walkway, the gravel walkway from
where the metal building is downthrough the woods to go behind
the coop.
Like that's that's wonderful.
That gravel, it used to not bethere.
It was just straight up ground.
And you, it was a ticking time,yeah, ticking time bomb who was
gonna bust their tail going upor down.
Oh, yeah.
And it was just, I mean, forreal, there was no graceful way

(07:54):
to walk that.
Yeah, there's no like becausethere were no steps going.
You had to navigate that hill.
And everyone's holding theirbreath.

SPEAKER_01 (08:02):
We would sit, me and Little would sit at the top of
the hill where the coop nowsits.
We would sit right there andjust watch people.
If it rained, we just watchedpeople going, either coming to
or leaving from supper or lunch,because you'd see one in ten
people wipe out.

SPEAKER_03 (08:17):
It's true.

SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
It was so entertaining.

SPEAKER_03 (08:19):
So bunny.
That is crazy to think about.
No coop.
No.
No three-man swing, no aerialpark.

SPEAKER_02 (08:26):
Yeah.
I mean, we did repelling.
I remember that and um how crazyit was.
Because yeah, we had the15-passenger van.
We went to repelling, and then Iremember at the light in Murphy
at the McDonald's lot.

SPEAKER_01 (08:39):
Yep.
That's where I would do it.

SPEAKER_02 (08:40):
And then just like stopping and doing the Chinese
fire drill.
And like that's hilarious.
Remember it being one of thosethings where it's like, all
right, get out.
Go, go, go, go, go.
We're like, woo, going around,you know.
I mean, it's the four-lane.

SPEAKER_01 (08:52):
Yeah, and the lights turning green, everybody get
back in the van.

SPEAKER_03 (08:55):
15 passenger kids like crawling over.

SPEAKER_01 (08:57):
Yeah, we had no such thing as risk management.

SPEAKER_03 (09:00):
No, hilarious.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (09:02):
That was 90s youth ministry.
That was in 2000, but that's 90syouth ministry.
Like, there's no liabilityconcerns.

SPEAKER_03 (09:07):
Wait, tell us about mountain surfing.
First of all, mountain surfing.
Like that alone is so hilariousto me.
The simplest, cheapest form ofentertainment.

SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
We didn't have any money.
We didn't have any wreck.

SPEAKER_02 (09:20):
Yeah, they had just going climbing up that hill.
And and really, I mean, it waspretty amazing to watch the
people go head over heels.
Do, do, do, do, do.
You know?
So you guys would just likeclimb what?
Swofast?
And then jump down the well,you're saying start sliding, and
then I guess gravity would justtake your way to get out of
here.

SPEAKER_01 (09:41):
There was a section when you get up to Swofast
wasn't there then.
Swofast is like uh Swofast is wehad a fire on that mountain in
2006, and the Forest Servicetook a dozer up there and they
moved a bunch of dirt.
And while they were up there, Iwas like, Well, you just make us
a big flat spot up here.
So they just they just cut thetop of the mountain and made a

(10:03):
big like literally like a housesite.

SPEAKER_04 (10:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (10:05):
And all we've done is put some benches and stuff up
there, and that kind of became adestination for people to, but
you can't hike to it.
You got it the last crawling andit's so steep.
So back then we would go up andget up on top of that mountain,
and then we would just there wasone spot we would come off the
mountain, and it was like sosteep for about 300 yards, 200,

(10:28):
200 yards probably.
And you started off in thelaurels for people that don't
know what that's just a mountainuh tree that grows the low to
the ground covered like bush,but it's like real it it creates
a real low canopy, so it's likeyou're in tunnels, and then you
would just start inching yourway down, but then yeah, gravity
would take over, and you wouldjust I mean it would be like

(10:52):
sliding off of I mean it was itwas like this steep, so it's
almost it's not vertical,obviously, but you would lose
moment like you would gainmomentum, lose control, and we
would broken wrists, brokencollarbones, broken ankles.
Yeah, busted faces, yeah.
Yeah, stitches.
So we quit doing it after aboutfive years.
After about five years, yeah, wedid it a long time because we

(11:13):
didn't have anything, we didn'thave no swing, no zip line.
Yeah we go rafting.

SPEAKER_02 (11:17):
I remember mountain boarding um because I remember
Brandon Brown would mountainboard with his students, and
there was always a brokenclavicle every every week.
Broken clavicles is far for thecourse.

SPEAKER_01 (11:26):
Yep, so 02 was when we put it in.
We put that dirt course in andhe ran it.
And then I remember at thebeginning of the next summer,
maybe put it in an 01 at thebeginning of 02 or 02 to 03, but
we went into the summer and wesaid, okay, we had too many
broken bones last summer.
We're in trouble with ourinsurance.
The first broken bone, we got tocancel this wreck.
And like week one, day one, akid comes bombing down the hill

(11:50):
on the mountain board.
It's like a snowboard with bigmud tires, and he hits and we
had built these massive jumps.
That's on us.
That's so cool, though.
These massive tabletop jumps,and then kids would just bomb.
You know, you get a kid like aboy that's 14, he's like, Oh
yeah, and they'd just bomb downthe hill and then launch, and

(12:10):
just something's getting broke.
And like first, second day ofcamp that year, kid broke his
his wrist or his collarbone, andlike we're done.
So we took Skidsteer and knockedthe whole thing down, we're done
with Malmort.

SPEAKER_03 (12:22):
That's crazy, though.

SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
It was so crazy.
I'm trying to think, and youtold a funny story at lunch when
we were going to the pool.
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (12:33):
Yeah, because it was yeah, the early days, like yeah,
the recreation was prettyminimal.
It didn't matter, maybe therafting one day wide open, yep,
rafting.
Then I think um then obviouslythe repelling was I think we
did.
We did y'all have caving?
I'm trying to remember.

SPEAKER_01 (12:47):
Yeah, uh, it was like some people went, some
people didn't.
If they wanted to go, we wouldset it up and take it.

SPEAKER_02 (12:52):
Yeah, but um the pool, everyone went to the pool,
the Andrews Pool on Thursdays.

SPEAKER_01 (12:57):
Yeah, like on yep, Thursday for at the end of Red.
Yeah, it's been a couple hours.

SPEAKER_02 (13:01):
And so it was like sweet.
We get to go because there's wehad porta potties.
I was telling them at lunch.
I've never been really poop shy,but dirty porta potties.
That week, I guess I was, and sowe we get to the pool, we're
having a great time.
I'm like, cool, there's actuallike bathrooms, yeah, bathrooms.
I can, you know.
Um, and so we try to go to thebathroom, but it was time to go.
And so I couldn't, I mean it waslike we were leaving.

(13:23):
I was like, Well, I gotta getthis bus.
And so I wasn't able to go poopthere.
And I guess my body was just notcooperating.
So I got home and finally I wasrelaxed enough to go poop.
And my mom was like, Don't youever do that again, Andrew?

SPEAKER_01 (13:37):
Typical, don't you ever typical ninth grade girl
move.
The um yeah, the pool trips werewere funny because people would
go down and take showers and usethe they're like, Oh, we're
going to the pool.

SPEAKER_04 (13:50):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (13:50):
I mean, we would go, we would rent the Andrewstown
pool a couple times a week.
We'd do it on day one and thenwe do it on Thursdays.

SPEAKER_02 (13:56):
Super fun.

SPEAKER_01 (13:57):
And then go down there and rent it for like two
hours at the end of the rack.
And I would drive the bus.
I didn't have a CDL.
I don't even remember if the bushad we had tags.

SPEAKER_03 (14:07):
I know Jeff Gardner's listening cringing
right now.

SPEAKER_01 (14:10):
Yeah, yeah.
Shout out to Jeff Garner.
He listens every week.
And Jeff is our transportationdirector who and has doesn't
just do a phenomenal job, buthas a massive responsibility.
You see how many buses, trucks,vans, I mean it's a huge fleet.
Most of our stuff's old, so he'sconstantly turning wrenches,
working.

(14:30):
Maintenance is a nightmare.
He's got Jason Atkins works forhim, so he's got a and then an
intern, so he's got a crew, andthey just stay nonstop.
And I'll tell him stories andhe's like, oh my god.
And Jay uh, I mean, uh, Jeff islike type A, he's like mugs.

SPEAKER_02 (14:43):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (14:44):
Like organized spreadsheet, type A personality,
everything's got its place.
You get in his truck right now,it does not look like the inside
of my truck.
You know what I mean?
Like everything's in his place.
And I'll tell him stories, andhe's just like, I can't, that's
crazy.
I can't even imagine.

SPEAKER_02 (14:58):
There's a funny story with the bus when I was on
staff.
I think it may have been 04 andit could have been 05, but it
was early on.
And Andrew Gray was driving thatwhen the buses was we were
coming back from repelling orno, from rafting, because we
went, we went every week.
Everybody went every week.
And um, I remember we'reclimbing up the hill.
What's the um what's the the umname of the area?

(15:21):
Topton?
Is it topton?

SPEAKER_01 (15:22):
Coming up into over Topton.

SPEAKER_02 (15:23):
Yes, and so it's like it's I mean, the bus is
creeping, crawling up that outof the gorgeous dude.
And so Dustin McClure, I don'tknow how we all got the hype up,
but Dustin McClure's like, I betI can outrun this bus.
No, so Andrew Gray is drivingit.
We're like, all right, dude, doit.
So anyway, Andrew opens thedoor.
I mean, it's creeping.

(15:44):
Dustin thinks this guy reallythought he could outrun this
bus.
All of a sudden, he hops out theside of the bus and instantly
hits the gravel.
Snatched his feet.
Yes, it did.
And we're like, thank God itdidn't get run over.
You know, like faster than hethought it works.
We're like, uh-oh.
So he gets back in, but we'relike, just making some really
foolish but really entertainingdecisions.

SPEAKER_01 (16:06):
Yeah, and we had no risk management.
Oh people like Spencer Davis andJeff Garner have saved this
ministry.
If we didn't have Jeff Garnerrunning transportation, if we
didn't have Spencer and Madelinerunning risk management, we
literally would have gottenclosed down.

SPEAKER_02 (16:19):
Yeah, I believe it.
I was there as a student andthen early on as staff.
Wait, so you worked 04?
Yes.
So I was a student.
I was a student in 2000 through2003.
I remember in 03, I would comeup as lived in Savannah.
I remember Jenna and I, she wasone of my um best friends.
Um, we would drive up on likedifferent breaks and drive to

(16:40):
six and a half hours up fromSavannah and come hang out for a
day or two.
Um, because it means just theimpact of the ministry and our
time up here.
Um, and so then I remembertalking to you my senior year.
I'd be like, I gotta pray aboutwhether I'm gonna work.
And you're like, pray Shmay, youknow, just come on.
Just come work.
Yeah.
And so, and um, and so then Idid.
And so in 2004, I rememberdriving um the summer.

(17:02):
I had a little 1985 ToyotaCorolla, sound like a Harley
Davidson because the muffler wasnot on properly.
And driving up by myself, and Iremember getting to sta it was
late when I got here.
Later in, I mean it was dark,and I remember seeing Jen
Frschetti and Brooke SlaughterYarborough, like outside of it

(17:22):
was a is it Atlanta Street Cabinis one the one.
Yeah, they're standing there.
I don't know.
There was somebody else, maybeit was Bobby Lane, like throwing
knives at a tree.
And I'm like standing, I'm like,I felt like a fish out of water.
It was exactly where the Lordwanted, I mean, it's exactly
where I needed to be.
But I remember being like kindof shell-shocked, like, oh,
because I mean, I was brand new.

(17:43):
Those people I think had workedthe summer before, or they were
at least a year older than me.
And um, I'm just I remembercrying myself to sleep that
night, just being like, what amI doing?
But then it, I mean, obviously,then it quickly shifted.
I mean, because the intensity ofthat staff training was just
really fantastic and likegetting prepped.
I mean, I was my first time awayfrom home.

(18:03):
I didn't know what the summeryou know what would hold.
Um, but then I mean, it wasincredible.
And then I worked the subsequentsummers um up until I guess I
guess 2011.
And then I lived in Andrews fromand until like 2000, the
beginning of 2015.
So I mean Andrews became home.

(18:24):
Yeah.
So I mean, I went to college,UGA, and then the summers I
worked, you know, and I rememberit was really really huge to
then kind of turn on turn thepage to other people and like I
need to pray about.
I'm like, just come.
Just come.
Like you're you're gonna beimmersed.
It's gonna be hard and it'sgonna be incredible, and it's
gonna be well worth it.

(18:44):
And so we don't need to don'tneed to spiritualize it.
Obviously, it's a good thing,and it's okay to receive a good
thing.
So remember, it was really it'sjust impactful.

SPEAKER_01 (18:54):
It aligns with this is a good principle um for I
think for believers.
Um when you're doing something,when you're when you're saying
yes to something that perfectlyaligns with the commands of
scripture, you don't have topray about it.
And I don't want to say that thewrong way.
We're always in an attitude ofprayer.

(19:14):
But to say, do I think God wantsme instead of hanging out at the
house and practicing couch rodall summer and going to the pool
or you know, or or going andworking uh and and and making
money and and doing the typicalsummer, like do I think instead
of that that God would be inopposition to me going and
laboring for the gospel forthree months, being discipled,

(19:38):
yeah, investing in people,advancing the kingdom,
proclaiming the truth of thegospel.
Like, you don't have to prayabout that.
Nope.
Pray about it, but you don'thave to pray about it to get a
yes.
It's like just say yes and justgo.

SPEAKER_04 (19:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (19:52):
I I I really, and you know this about me, and
these guys definitely know thisabout me.
I cannot, I don't like themindset of, well, let's just see
if the Lord opens a door.
Look, if he ain't got the dooropen and you just try to knock
the door off the hinges, hewon't let you open it.
Just be aggressive.
That's how you've lived yourlife.
Like, that door is closed rightthere.

(20:12):
I'm gonna go over there.
If I turn the knob and it opens,then it's an open door, but it
doesn't look open, right?

SPEAKER_02 (20:17):
Yeah, that's right.
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
I got I gotta go to work.
Yes.
If I go over there and it'slocked and I put a shoulder in
it, I'm like, okay, that door'snot open.
It is closed and locked.
Like, just press your shoulderinto what, you know, and and
like if it aligns withscripture, just do it.

SPEAKER_02 (20:30):
Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (20:30):
Yeah, and it it leads to awesome things.
It always does.
I mean, what's an earlyministry?
Do you have a memory that standsout from your first or second
summer when you as a student oron staff?
On staff, where you're like,man, because you talked about
Jenny Andrews investing in you.
Absolutely.
Who I wonder if she listens tothis.
I don't know.
She's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 (20:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
Um, and she was a she was so there our third
summer of existence, third yearof existence, she's on staff
here.
She had come with the firstwinter group that ever came.

SPEAKER_04 (21:01):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (21:02):
Was a was a group of seniors from her youth group,
and we were connected to thatchurch.
They came up and they stayed andslept in Marble Springs Baptist
Church basement.

SPEAKER_02 (21:12):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (21:12):
And then helped us work.
They did like a work weekend.
And she was in that group, andwe would take them over to
Andrew's High School and theywould use the locker rooms to
shower.

SPEAKER_04 (21:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (21:21):
It was the first winter we were here.
And that's how I met Ginny.
And then she came and worked onstaff that summer.

SPEAKER_02 (21:26):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (21:27):
The year or two after she graduated.
And and uh so I wonder, yeah, soyou share that.
Do you have one or two memoriesearly on that impacted you?
Like, oh, I'm the one investedin this person, or do you
remember a student?

SPEAKER_02 (21:41):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, there's I there isa student for sure, one of the
local girls that I bonded withwhen we the local girls would
come and a couple of us would beassigned to them.
And I think that was later on.
I think when you're I think like2004, 2005, I was along for the
ride.
But I remember, and I rememberthinking like Sarah Conti and

(22:05):
Carrie, I don't remember herlast.
They would get up early and golike read scripture in the
middle building.
I was like, that's really cool.
Um, I gotta get some sleep.
I'm worn out.
But I remember probably my thirdsummer making the decision to
get up early and actually startdoing some my own Bible study
because I didn't grow up in thechurch.
I got saved, had an incredibleyouth pastor who loves the word

(22:28):
of God and who would shoot usstraight.
And I am so thankful.
It I mean, the Lord has given meum a family member in Joe
Strange and his family.
And so that had that that beingpoured in in that capacity, and
then coming and sitting underthe teaching at Snowbird and
kind of like how serious andlegitimate you guys take, like
the study of scripture, the wordof God.

(22:49):
Again, not like these themes tomake you feel good, but like
this is what the word of Godsays.
Like, so I was being fed in thatway.
But it wasn't, I think, until mythird summer that I actually
start eating for myself, gettingup, and those really, I mean,
those mornings, the earlymornings, walking down the staff
hill, and like, you know, youknow, the dawn is breaking, and

(23:11):
like the this the mountain air,the cool mountain air, and
getting up there and starting toread scripture.
That then I think for myselfthat something shifted well,
because then I was being, andthen I went on my through hike
on the AT.
And again, it was like I didn'thave commentary on the AT, but
it was like just starting toread scripture and allowing the
Lord to speak to me through hisword.

(23:32):
Then it shifted the way that Iwas able to interact with
students, you know, and likepointing.
It wasn't about like me havingall the right answers, but the
Lord ministering through me tothe students and just being a
presence.
And I'm just recounting likeJenny Andrews, just being there,
just being willing to encourageor to pray or to hear me out.

(23:53):
Um, and so though then, but I doremember I there's yeah, the one
local girl just and aftersummers, I saw her several
summers, you know, on and justkeeping in touch and you know,
and and realizing too, likethrough that whole journey,
through my own personal journey,but then even just watching her
like I'm not her savior, no oneelse is my savior, it's Christ

(24:14):
with pointing back to Jesus.
And so then just thinking, andthen I remember, I mean, just
remember watching Logan Edwardsjump a million times into the
creek, you know, and just likeyou know, just just seeing
people come and then the years,everyone coming back, and just
because I had a long standing onstaff, it was really incredible
to get to see the students comeback with such enthusiasm and

(24:35):
excitement to see us and to bethere, um, and to just join in
that and you know, thatexcitement with them for their
short period of time and stayingup really late and just being
like, yeah, pouring it all out,like with the discussions in the
cabins after the evening worshipservice and answering questions.
And I don't know, it's just justreally the importance of

(24:56):
recognizing the opportunity athand to be present with whomever
would let us in.
Like it wasn't a matter of likelike you were talking about,
like we're not forcing anything,but we're here.
And it was really incredible tosee some of those those girl
campers and some of this the youknow the chaperones that would
come kind of press in and wantto be encouraged, ask hard

(25:18):
questions, um, just have fun.
Um it was a I mean it's a bigprivilege, a lot of work.
Man, I remember just beingslapped dead on Saturday
afternoons and Sundays.
But I I don't know.
I I think about it now.
I mean as a 40-year-old woman,I'm like, gosh, if I could just
go work a summer again, I wouldjust, I mean, I would.

SPEAKER_01 (25:40):
Yeah, it's the most rewarding exhaustive.

SPEAKER_02 (25:43):
Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, as far as like justtrying to think.

SPEAKER_01 (25:47):
That's cool.
The um the 08 through hock ofthe AT, if I remember, you
started hawking that winter andyou came here for staff
training.

SPEAKER_02 (25:58):
I did.
I started January 26th.
I was um really green.
I didn't have a clue what I wasdoing.
And I thought that if I Ithought I could hike it and get
done by the time staff training.
I wanted to have my cake and eatit too, right?
So um we started hiking and itthat wasn't how it was panning
out.
But I remember talking with youand Joe when I was in

(26:19):
Pennsylvania, and then there wasthe decision of like, you gotta
come home.
And I was like, I'm not cominghome.
Um, you gotta come home, atleast for staff training.
And so I actually was not goingto, but the Lord physically
intervened on me.
I couldn't walk.

SPEAKER_01 (26:35):
Um you literally couldn't walk.
I literally could not walk.

SPEAKER_02 (26:38):
Yep, yep.
And it, yep.
I was uh I told Brody and Joethat I would um I'd be I'd be
coming.
I hitched a ride from up theredown to North Carolina.

SPEAKER_01 (26:51):
And you had a little pistol I gave you.

SPEAKER_02 (26:53):
So then Rachel had it.
She had I wasn't carrying it.
And then I almost now I lookback and I'm like, maybe I
should have had it.
Um, but then like it wasinteresting because the morning
I had agreed that I was gonnapart ways from the AT, I
couldn't walk.
And the Lord knew this isreally, really cool for to me
because like I had a pain in mysciatica.

(27:14):
Otherwise, I would have justbeen obstinate and I would have
kept hiking northbound and Iwould have missed out on a lot.
Um, but obviously the Lord isbigger than me.
And so I had the physical pain.
I couldn't, I was like reallysad because these two guys I'd
been hiking with, I just watchedthem walk northbound.
I'm sitting outside of this uhthis grocery store crying.
I'm like, oh bye.
End up getting a ride.

(27:35):
I had to get two rides down toget to North Carolina, and I'm
here and I remember um talkingwith Debbie Gray, and towards
the latter part of my two weeks,and she was asking me if I felt
like the Lord wanted me to goback to the trail.
And I was like, Well, yeah, Imean, I didn't I don't want to
the my attitude at that pointwas I don't want people, people

(27:56):
who doubted me, I didn't wantthem to be right.
I wanted to finish this thing.
She's like, Well, that's not agood enough reason to go back by
yourself.
She's like, you need to pray.
So I remember I had a flightthat was leaving on the Sunday.
Friday, so I was here, you know,I'd already been here a week and
a half.
Uh Friday, I went to Granny'scabin in the woods and by

(28:16):
myself, and I just had my Bible,and I got to the cabin because I
was like, I'm gonna have sometime of solitude and prayer.
I get to the cabin, I startsweeping the floor.
And I really do feel like theLord's like, you need to stop
busying yourself, you need tosit.
So I sat down on the littleswing out there and didn't have
my journal out.
I just sat there and the Lordjust reminded me of Joshua 1.9.

(28:40):
Like, I've commanded you, bestrong and courageous.
Like I'm with you.
And it was the it was probably,I mean, aside from the spirit
moving for to draw me tosalvation that night of December
8th of 99, that was the timethat's probably the first time I
heard the Lord speak to me.
It was so clear.
The Lord's like, I've commandedyou to go.

(29:01):
And I didn't know at that pointbecause I was just like gonna
finish this thing.
I had no visual of the futurethat I would hike the other two
and become a triple crowner.
That was not even hiking washikers were not my ministry
population.
I was just like, and the Lord'slike, go, and so end up going
with a with like a confidencefrom the Lord, not like a
resolve from Ann Tully that Iwas gonna prove people wrong,

(29:23):
which is a very different powerhouse to have the Lord back that
up.
And so I went back to the trailand I was on the trail for 40
days and then I finished.
Wow.
Um, and it was incredible liketo have that encounter with the
Lord when I was back here, thatthat break that I didn't know
what it was gonna look like, andI was gonna walk around in
opposition to it.
But the Lord's like, no, no, no.

(29:43):
Like I care for you so much andI know you so well that I'm
gonna actually stop you in yourtracks.
And then he met me in the mosttangible way.
And I mean, to this day, it'sone of my my most cherished
experiences with the Lord whereI'm like, He does know me.
He sees me, he spoke to me, hehas given me what I need.

SPEAKER_01 (30:04):
And so I remember I remember the conversation when I
said, You need to come home andgo through two these two weeks
of staff training, even if youdon't come work this summer.
You'd already been through fourstrap staff training.
So you knew you didn't need thetraining.
You just needed the fellowshipand renewal.

SPEAKER_02 (30:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (30:23):
And that was coming.
Let's back up a little bit.
That's a good spot to hit pauseback up.
Let's talk about your familydynamic a little bit.
And then um, and I definitelywant to walk through the events
of 2007 that our listeners arefamiliar with, and the people
that have read the book, becauseuh really there's a big section

(30:43):
of the book devoted to that.
And but of course it's told frommy perspective.
Everybody had a perspective.
We all had the same perspectiveand a unique angle on that
perspective.
And so um, you know, back towhen you started in December
of '99 when you gave your lifeto Christ, you had come to First
Baptist Church of the Islands,and to this day, Joe is a good

(31:05):
brother and friend of mine, andwe stay in communication.
And uh it's been a while sincehe's been up here because he's
out of student ministry, butthat next summer when he brought
you um that started this specialrelationship between you and
this ministry and between us andyou.
And um I told, I think again,before we were filming, I told

(31:29):
y'all, and like the first camperI remember really having a
long-term relationship with,Little and I having, you know, a
long-term impact.
Um, I remember some studentsfrom Rob Hester's group, like uh
Sarah Livingston.
Yeah, you know, but thatlong-term personal impact where
she spent so much time here andin our home.
And um but part of that wasbecause you did not come from a

(31:52):
healthy, happy, holy family.

SPEAKER_02 (31:55):
No.

SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
So just talk a little bit about that family
dynamic.

SPEAKER_02 (31:58):
Yeah, I um yeah, did not grow up in a church, like I
had mentioned before, and theLord just was like, I'm gonna
pick you out of the Myri clayand set your feet on solid rock.
Like there's certain scripturesthat I'm like, that's I mean,
that is my story.
I remember right my freshmanyear.
I mean, I've always been likefocused on a goal.
I was like, I don't want togrow, I don't want to grow up.

(32:18):
I don't want to raise a familyin the same kind of dynamic
where a single parent, mom whohad some long-term
relationships, but all of themwere abusive or just
dysfunctional, which was came tothe detriment of me and my
sister Britney.
She's a year and a half youngerthan I am.
And so then just like realizingnow, like God has given me
different gifts and he has set apath for me.

(32:42):
And um, he was God has been sogracious to the to really just
help guide me to where it's likeit's not about your striving and
it's about my work through you.
And so just seeing like Goddirecting my path.
And so despite my circumstances,um, and so yeah, single parent.

(33:03):
Um, and I remember I was tellingBrody this at lunch, like at one
point, my mom, she was in a justnot a really great relationship
at in the point that this man,this grown man was in the front
yard with my sister.
I guess they were gonna fistfight each other.
I was working at Sonic and Iremember, um, I don't know if my
sister or my mom called me.
It may have been my sister, butshe said basically I just got

(33:24):
kicked out.
You know, she's like 15, 14 or15.
And I remember calling Kahuna.
I mean, I remember calling him.
I was in the bathroom at Sonicand it was nighttime.
I'm like, my sister just gotkicked out.
I have no clue what to do.
And I, I mean, I could be wrong,but I really do think at that
point he's just like, I'mcoming.
And I I mean, I really think hejust came and got her.
I don't think there was a delay.

(33:45):
I think it was came and got her,no questions asked.
And she spent the summer here,which is such a grace, too,
because I'm like, I know she'sheard the gospel and she lives
in opposition to the gospel now,but she's still alive.
And I'm like praying with ananticipation that the Lord will,
you know, just really move andher her eyes will be the scales
will be lifted.
But um, and so kind of thatsupport, like that drop the hat,

(34:08):
you're worth it, like dropeverything, you're worth it.
I'm coming after you to bepresent.
And so that was huge.
And I didn't grow up in my dad,I didn't meet him, and we were
talking about it over at lunch,you know, like I met my dad face
to face for the first time thereon the snowbird grounds, you
know, and and Brody, you werethe first person to, I mean,
talk to him, you know, and justin kind of realizing too, even

(34:32):
even just kind of uh anownership, a protection of like,
I don't know this guy, you don'tknow this guy, you know.
So even just sharing like not,you're just kind of being near
in the periphery to make sureeverything was fine.
And and so yeah, just kind ofwanting and needing a family
unit, like a place to, a placeto belong and a um a space and a

(34:56):
group of people to encourage youon and really desire to see the
best, um, the best for you inyou and all of that.
So, anyhow, it was just reallySnowbird, definitely the
community of people, the staff.
Um, that season of my life beingmet with with this ministry and

(35:16):
the Lord just meeting me in thattime was monumental.
For me, being now like a mom, awife, and a mom, and a
successful citizen of you of mycommunity, like being engaged in
the community, it's like it wasa great training ground for me.
Because in my story, could likeI was telling you guys at lunch,
my senior quote was, but by thegrace of God, I am what I am.

(35:37):
And it's and I 100% believethat.
Like there, if you all thestories in my life and all the
things that have unfolded, it'slike by the grace of God, I am
what I am, which is a followerof Jesus, you know, and healthy
relationships and a hope that iseternal.
Because I've walked through alot of loss, a lot of loss,

(36:01):
tragic loss, and yet my heart isnot downcast because Christ is
alive in me.
Praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 (36:12):
So, yeah, the um there are people that come along
in your life in ministry, youknow, now that I've been in
ministry for three decades.

SPEAKER_02 (36:27):
It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 (36:28):
A lifetime.

SPEAKER_02 (36:29):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (36:30):
A lifetime.
And there are people, and andall I ever want to do is be
faithful.
I have a list, a handwrittenlist that I'll keep of people
that I have broken fellowshipwith, or they turned away, or
you know, they were in thisministry and now they're in the
world, or or they got mad at meand and reconciliation hasn't

(36:54):
happened.
And you know, I'll keep arunning list and and I'll pray
over that.
Yeah.
Like, Lord, please one dayrestore this person or bring
reconciliation.
Or and I don't I don't add tothat list often, uh-huh, but
it's when you do this for 30years, it's crazy how many
people you see, you know, turnaway.
JB has a a really close familymember, that's her story, and
we've talked about it on here.

(37:16):
Um your story is one, the reasonit was so important to me, this
has been a long time coming toget you here, and it's because
you're gonna have people in yourlife that they're what I call
trophies of ministry.
So, what I mean by that is if Icould take a hand and hand pick
a handful of stories to say,boom, and put them on display

(37:39):
and say, this is the fruit offaithfulness in ministry, this
person's life.
This person's life, like theirwhole life.
Not not the decision he made atSnowbird, not the decision she
made with her counselor, butlike the turned trajectory of a
person's life that is now lived.
I've been doing this long enoughto watch lives either live

(38:00):
faithfully or start and turnaway.
And yours is a is a story.
I mean, I tell it a lot.
I told your story through myperspective a week ago to
somebody, and I ain't seen youin person in a while, you know.
So it's it's to me, it's thepower of God's favor and
faithfulness over the long haulin a person's life that is on

(38:24):
display because you've got thesemoments where like you could
just tell the story of yourchildhood and what you came out
of, and that would be a crazytestimony.
If you get to December of 99,and God saved me, we could stop
there.
It's a crazy story.

unknown (38:38):
It's true.

SPEAKER_01 (38:39):
And then we could go down the rabbit hole, the kid
that shot himself in the head,because I remember him.
I knew him.

SPEAKER_02 (38:43):
Steven, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 (38:44):
You know, and we got some crazy stories with that
kid, you know?
Yeah.
And then uh, but then come backto keep moving forward and then
bring Britney into it.
Your sister, I remember me andKahuna talking about okay, when
you called them, I remember wesat down and we're like, okay,
what are we gonna do?
We need to go get her.
What's it gonna look like?
How do we sort of utilize ourtime here with her and where do

(39:08):
we put her and how do we becauseshe wasn't a believer and she's
a broken kid.
Yep.
And like longevity of ministry,you get to see stories start and
and follow through to the end,or at least to see their
trajectory.
And so I think uh one of thethings that so you for for me,

(39:28):
you are a ministry trophy.
I hope people understand what Imean when I say I don't mean a
trophy I earned.
You know what I'm saying?
I mean a display of God'sfaithfulness through a ministry.
I don't so in my mind they'retrophies of ministry, not my
trophies.
Right.
Trophies I get to look at andbehold.
Look what God's done, you know.
Hopefully that makes sense toour listeners.
And so yours is one of thosestories, and and it's also a

(39:54):
sober and reminder.
We invested just as intenselyinto your sister.

SPEAKER_02 (39:59):
Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (40:00):
And there's no magic potion or formula to what makes
a person follow Jesus.
Um and and so when when you camehere and the Lord started to use
you in leadership, um I I wantto, I really do want to talk
about 2007.

(40:20):
Yeah.
Because when when and to for thefor people that may be newer
listeners or haven't listenedthrough all 300 almost episodes
of this or haven't read thebook, the no sanity book, in
2007 there was an accident, a anautomobile accident, and Dawson
Pagett is one of the survivorsof that crash.
He was here this past weekend atBe Strong.

(40:40):
Okay, and has has finally I'veI've so just FY I I've had now
18 years of discipleshipinvestment into Dawson.
Like okay, I talked to him, wetalked like we have a really
special relationship, and um Ilove him dearly, and he has
struggled with survivor's guiltat a high level.

(41:02):
Um and that's his story thatwe'll tell.
He'll tell when he sits in hischair, but and I think he's
close to being ready to sit downand do that.
But we were revisiting some ofthat this past weekend because
after the accident, he was inintensive care for three, four
weeks.
So was Kara, the other survivor.
Kara was in intensive care.
But that uh when that so peoplethat don't know the story, in

(41:27):
2007 there was an automobileaccident, and six of our staff
members were in that vehicle.
Four of them perished, two ofthem survived, but with horrible
physical damage and thenlong-term emotional and
psychological trauma assurvivors.
And uh and it was an it was anunavoidable accident.

(41:47):
It was a di it was amalfunction, a ball joint in the
vehicle, disintegrated, it cameapart, the car dropped onto that
rotor, the wheel flew off, cardropped onto like like dropped
into the pavement and went intoa roll.
And we were going to speed limiton 575 coming out of Atlanta,

(42:07):
and uh it changed this ministry.
Like really, I became adifferent person.
We all did, but to that point,the ministry had been serious
about the word of God, seriousabout discipleship, but I was
still very adolescent in a lotof the way I viewed the world
and life.
And you go through that kind oftrauma and you change and you
grow up, you know.
And I mean, and I say that, andit's crazy because I was 35

(42:30):
years old.
I wasn't a child, but it changedme drastically.

SPEAKER_02 (42:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (42:34):
Um, because I'm calling mamas at three in the
morning, waking them up to tellthem what's happened.
And uh to this day, I sleep withmy phone in airplane mode.
I I cannot handle a phoneringing in the middle of the
night.
I wake up freaked out, you know.
So um so I like let's walkthrough.

(42:57):
You were on that trip.
There were multiple cars.
Describe, yeah, describe thatweek two of camp ended on a
Saturday and a bunch of y'allwere gonna go have a good time.

SPEAKER_02 (43:06):
Yeah, so I was coordinating Atlanta Braves
game, you know, like who's gonnastay where?
Because a lot of people thatwere on staff were down, they
lived in that area, Marietta,Woodstock, Atlanta area.
And so we're all just a bunch ofcollege kids excited to go see a
Braves game.
I don't mean there's a big haulof people that were like about
50.
Yes, it was a lot.
And so coordinating who wasdriving, who was riding with

(43:28):
who, who was staying with who,how many tickets, all that.
So I was like leading the way.
We're having a good old time.
And we all go to the Braves gamethat Saturday, the 9th of June,
and watch a game.
I don't even know if the Braveswon.
I don't know.
We were just thrilled to be out.
You know, it's like, we're onthese summer hives, having a
good time.
And then everyone kind ofdisbanded again, made sure

(43:49):
everyone had a ride and wherethey were going.
People went separate ways.
Some people went to localrestaurants and ate some food
afterwards, which is what mycrew did.
Um, other people went topeople's houses, just went to
the houses.
Um, and some people may havealready driven back to Snowbird.
I don't know that evening.
Anyhow, um, each car was kind ofresponsible for what they were
doing.
And I remember being at thesteak and shake.

(44:10):
And I some people, I thinkbecause some people were headed
back um northbound.
Um, I remember talking toWallace.
Some people had driven by anaccident that happened, and they
thought that looked like Kara'scar.
And we got some phone calls orwhatever, and kind of driving
slow.
And anyway, so speculate therewas a little bit of phone kind

(44:30):
of speculation happening.

SPEAKER_01 (44:32):
And then um this was like texting.
Yeah, texting and flip phonesand T9 text.

SPEAKER_02 (44:38):
Yeah, yeah.
Cause I mean, that's the firstyear I had texting on my phone,
2007.
Yes, with the like push this thesame key three times, get the
third letter.
Um, and so there was some again,it was kind of like just you
know, random conversation, kindof speculation.
And then at some point while wewere there, got a phone call.
Because I think I do believeWallace and Michelle Wilkins,

(45:01):
they had stopped.
And then they there wasconfirmation.

SPEAKER_01 (45:04):
So was Carrie Wallace down there?

SPEAKER_02 (45:06):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (45:07):
Okay, she's the one that called me initially.

SPEAKER_02 (45:10):
So then it was one of those things where it's like
this is it's confirmed that itis Kara's car.
And then at that point, we hadnews that um the passengers were
sent to four different places.
And so I was sent to Kennestone.
Again, I'm not from the area.
I was like, we're going.
I had we had no clue who waswhere.
And so I got to KennestoneHospital, and I remember them

(45:33):
ushering a handful of us, kindof like it felt like in this
back, these back rooms to go,like there was no one around.
Um, and I remember walking down.
Now I was dear friends withDaniel Branson and his family.
Nate and I started workingtogether in 04.
His brothers came that summer umbecause he just loved his

(45:54):
brothers.

SPEAKER_01 (45:55):
And he went and he came first, and then his younger
brother, Daniel, had come andthen later came to work.

SPEAKER_02 (46:02):
Oh, yeah.
And then yep.
So I remember they his brotherscame that summer of 04, and so
then I got to know his familymore and his his parents, Patty
and Elliot.
So they they were a dear, theyweren't just like people I
worked with, they were dearfamily to me.
They still are to this day.

SPEAKER_01 (46:17):
And so And Nate went to be with the Lord last summer.

SPEAKER_02 (46:19):
Yes, he did.
I remember praying for Patty andElliot.

SPEAKER_01 (46:23):
Yeah, they've lost two sons.

SPEAKER_02 (46:24):
Yeah, um, intense.
Um, and so but we ended up atKennestone.
Again, we're getting I'm whilewe were at Kennestone, what I
find out that Daniel's at thathospital, and then we get phone
calls that then it was confirmedthat both Suzanne and Ashley had
already died, and then we'repraying fervently for Michael

(46:44):
because he was coherent andalert when they put him on the
ambulance.

SPEAKER_01 (46:48):
Yeah, but he had a brain bleed, I think.

SPEAKER_02 (46:50):
Yeah, yeah.
And same so because I so thenthe you know, it's like we're
praying, we're praying, we'repraying.
Daniel had passed.
I don't know, when he was he hadalready passed by the time we
got to that hospital.
It was really, really surreal.
That whole experience being inthat hospital, walked by a room
and he had this massive afro.
It was just so his personalitywas just bigger than life, and

(47:11):
his afro was just as big.
And uh, and it was crazy walkingby again, there's like nobody
around.
And I'm trying to call hisparents, they're home line.
And and I happened to havePatty's cell phone number.
I have lost my voice, and Idon't know, I mean, I don't know
why, but I did.
I was really difficult tocommunicate.

(47:32):
Finally, I call.
I mean, it's the wee hours ofthe morning, and Patty answers
the phone and she's like, Ann.
And I'm I'm like, I was looking,I just wanted to get on the
phone.
I was looking around to see ifanyone else was around.
Yeah, just like pass it on.
Like I wasn't gonna communicateanything to her, but no one was
around, and she just kept sayingmy name.

(47:53):
She knew something was all.
I mean, obviously, you don'tcall, I don't call Patty at one
in the morning.
Um, and and I just told her,like, Daniel, Daniel passed
away, and I will never forgether repeating my name over and
over again.
And they were in a hotel room inAsheville because they were
coming to see Daniel that nextthe next day.

(48:15):
Um, and so then it was kind oflike, well, what do we do now?
I mean, we're here.
Daniel has passed away, there'sno need for us to stay at this
hospital.
So then I remember we were,that's when we got the word
about Michael Mayor's stilltrying to pray for him on the
way.
Then we got the word that he hadactually passed away.
And I remember going to theGrimes' house and um getting a

(48:37):
couple of hours of sleep, ortrying to at least just kind of
just wrecked.
You're like, what in the worldjust happened?
And then getting up that morningand then driving back to camp.
It was so somber, like thatSunday, you know, like you have
people who didn't go to the gamewho were there, getting mess,
you know, information related tothem to the best of their

(48:59):
ability, just praying, waiting,holding your breath.
Then you got this caravan ofpeople who just had their own
like front experiences withthese people, with finding out
the information, us reuniting atcamp on Sunday.
I mean, it was it was probablyone of the most intense

(49:20):
experiences, emotional,spiritual, physical experiences
to have the two entities cometogether and sit with each
other.
And I remember just thecommunity of other youth pastors
and ministries coming in to likefill in because we're like
shell-shocked.
We've been just mowed over withgrief and shock, but yet campers

(49:43):
were coming the next day fortheir week of camp to be, you
know, to encounter the Lord, andyou've got a staff that's just
devastated, you know.
And then I remember, and thenjust feeling um seeing the
outreach of the community ofbelievers because then later
that week, I believe it waslater that week, like Thursday
or whatever is when they, ormaybe it was the following week.

(50:05):
I'm not sure of the timing ofwhen they had the funerals.
And then having the ability forthose who needed to go to the
different funerals, like it notbeing a problem, just being
like, the students will be takencare of.
This space for you as people whohave bonded with these people to
go and be a presence for thesegrieving families.
Um and then Nate was over inSlovakia at when his brother

(50:29):
died.
And I remember going to hisparents' house and seeing him
for the first time, um, and justlike the shock of all of it, but
just being in their home andjust being like a strong
presence of like your brotherwas loved, and this ministry is
here for you.
And this again, that reunitingof grieving entities coming

(50:53):
together and be like, we're aunified front with this, and
there is hope in Christ, butthis grief is so real and
tangible, and we've got to dosomething with it and share that
burden with each other.
It was, and then the summer,that summer of 07 was the most
beautiful.
I it's the most bittersweetsummer of my life because we
were bonded over that, thelosses.

(51:15):
Um, there's a deeperappreciation for the, you know,
for the family of Christ, forthe word of God.
I remember clearly, it's thefirst time it was like, we need
to be really angry at sin.
Sin is what causes death, youknow, and just this all the
what-ifs kind of just beingsnuffed out where it's like, God

(51:35):
is sovereign, our days arenumbered, we need to be angry at
sin, because sin is what causesdeath.
And then this deep love for eachother, this unif this unified
front to be present with eachother, for each other, in the
word, the sweetest, sweetestsummer.
We bonded.

(51:56):
Everyone loved each other in ain a different way.
Because you walk throughsomething that tragic and
shocking, you like you said,you're forever changed.
You grow up in a different way.
I think a real fruitful,benefit, beneficial way.
Yeah, it wasn't, I mean, I mean,still, I was telling you, being
in the coop.
I mean, my one of my most vividmemories of watching, I mean,

(52:19):
it's a picture I have is Danielstanding.
If you're looking at the stage,he's to the right, halfway down
the coop, and he's singing, he'sI mean, he's worshiping his I
see his big fro, his handraised, and he's like singing
the song, Oh, praise the one whopaid my debt and raised this
life up from the dead.
I see it and I feel it becauseI'm like, he is in the presence

(52:40):
of the Lord.
He was singing then what he isexperiencing now.
He has been raised from thedead, and he's praising the one
who paid his debts.
Like it wasn't just like thisfeel-good thing.
This is real life.
Like, heaven is real.
After Nate died, I talked toPatty in her house the day of
his funeral.
And Patty at two o'clock in themorning, she's like, Heaven's

(53:01):
real, Anne.
And when you walk through thattype of loss and you see the
testimony of the people who havepassed and like the fruit of
their lives, you can say, Yeah,heaven is real.
It's not to feel better.
It's the only hope we have isthat Christ, Christ is real,
heaven is real.
Yeah.
And to walk through these lossesand to see that, not just

(53:24):
because it feels good, it soundsgood, but it's real.
You're changed by that.
I mean, it's yeah, you can'tshake it.

SPEAKER_01 (53:32):
Last night you're you came to church and we meet
in the red red oak meets in thecoop.
Was that pretty emotional?

SPEAKER_02 (53:39):
It was emotional.

SPEAKER_01 (53:40):
I couldn't see you when I was like, I mean, I
wouldn't have been lookinganyway, but um It was emotional.
I'm just thinking about that.

SPEAKER_02 (53:46):
I haven't been worshiping yes, I haven't been
in the coop, and then definitelynot in the worship setting.
I mean, it's been it's been awhile.
And I mean, just as soon as assoon as worship started, the
lights were down, hearing Zachlead worship.
I mean, a flood happened.
I mean, because I think aboutthat.
I mean, the number of summersessions in there, hot summer

(54:07):
sessions.
I mean, the room filled.
Again, Zach leading worship.
You just hear it, and thenthinking through like I met my
dad on that, on that porch,seeing Daniel's memory.
I mean, countless fun and crazyand you know, moments in there.
My mom's memorial service washeld in there, which I mean I
hold with such high regard.

(54:28):
I mean, my family, my biologicalfamily did not have any
anything.
They didn't do anything to honormy mom's life.
But then to have Brittany Reaganand Steph Gatton and the staff
just rally around to get stuffset up so that I could my mom's
memory could be honored, have amemorial service there.
That is, I mean, invaluable.

(54:50):
You know, like I've seen myfriends get married in that
coop.
I've had some reallyheartbreaking conversations in
the coop.
It was, it was intense, it wasreally sweet.
I'm like, God has been so goodand so faithful to me.
And I'm I'm standing here.
Oh, then to sing that song inChrist Alone.

SPEAKER_01 (55:07):
Yeah, that was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 (55:08):
Yeah, I was like, it's true, like in Christ Alone.

SPEAKER_01 (55:13):
That became our anthem in 07.
That was the song.
Yes, wow, we sung it in thatbuilding, in the memorial.
We held an internal memorialservice, and we sang that song.
And last night I thought aboutthat because we don't sing that
song that often.
Yeah, it was kind of a throwbackmoment that Zach brought that in
last night.

(55:33):
I thought about that.
Yeah, and I remember I preachedor teached, or however you'd say
your mom's memorial service.

SPEAKER_02 (55:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (55:40):
And I remember feeling the weight of some
family members that were therethat weren't believers.

SPEAKER_02 (55:46):
Yeah, my sister and her girlfriend were there.
Yeah.
Pretty walked out at one point.

SPEAKER_01 (55:50):
Yeah.
And you and you, when we talkedthrough, I remember talking
through with you how I was gonnaapproach it because we weren't
sure of your mother's spiritualcondition.
And it was like, I don'tremember the exact words, but it
was like, don't preach her intoheaven.
You can't preach into heaven.
Yeah, just be share.
And I remember I can still tothis day, uh, when somebody asks

(56:12):
me, hey, how like somebody willcall, it could be a youth pastor
or a young pastor and say, Hey,I've got to do this funeral or a
memorial service for someonethat I don't know the condition
of their salvation, and I'llsay, because your mom was that
was the second time I ever did amemorial service for somebody I
wasn't sure if they knew theLord.

(56:33):
Um and you don't want to preachthem into heaven, and I'll walk
them through how I approachedthat.
But I remember the way I did it,and this is what I always tell
people is I I I stood up and Iand I said, Um, if Ann's mom was
here, here's what she'd want youto know.

SPEAKER_02 (56:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (56:49):
I shared the gospel.

SPEAKER_02 (56:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (56:51):
This is what she'd want you to know.

unknown (56:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (56:54):
And and that that really impacted your sister in a
very uncomfortable way.
You know, remember it was anintense experience.

SPEAKER_02 (57:01):
It was.

SPEAKER_01 (57:01):
It's an intense experience.

SPEAKER_02 (57:03):
Yeah.
I mean, surreal.
I mean, yeah, I'm just like,whoa, so many things happened.

SPEAKER_01 (57:10):
Sitting there last night.

SPEAKER_02 (57:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (57:11):
Yeah, I thought about that.
I prayed for you.

SPEAKER_02 (57:13):
Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 (57:14):
Let's take a break.
Okay.

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