September 29, 2025 • 50 mins
In this part two episode on forgiveness, Brody shares a personal story of receiving a threatening call about his daughter and how he chose to forgive the young man behind it—while still maintaining firm boundaries to protect his family.
Using powerful examples from Scripture like Moses, David, and Paul, Brody explores the tension between grace and lasting consequences. Forgiveness may come in a moment, but healing takes time—and it doesn’t always erase the impact of what’s been done.
If you're struggling with forgiveness, bitterness, or boundaries, this episode offers hope and wisdom.
Is Forgiveness Always Required? Pt. 1
Demas, Drifting, and How to Stay Faithful
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Okay, I'm back in the saddle.
I'm on the road again likeWillie Nelson.
I'm on I'm gonna record part twoto that last episode.
We had uh good response fromlast episode, but what's funny
is I didn't really say in thatepisode everything I wanted to
say.
Like I didn't even it didn'teven get to where I wanted to
get to.
I didn't realize how long it wasgonna take me to just lay the
(00:21):
foundation for what I want totalk about.
So part two today we're gonnatalk about the consequences that
linger sometimes in our lives,even after God's grace or the
grace of others has beenprovided.
We've been forgiven, we've beenset free from our mistakes, but
sometimes consequences linger,and we gotta learn to live with
those consequences.
(00:42):
We can live with thoseconsequences receiving the same
grace that we received in God'sforgiveness for what caused
those consequences, if thatmakes sense.
All right, so this is gonna be agood one.
I'm excited, I'm gonna tell somestories.
I'm gonna finally get to thosestories I wanted to tell.
Pretty intense.
Buckle up.
Welcome to No Sanity Required.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Welcome to No Sanity Required, from the Ministry of
Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters,a podcast about the Bible,
culture, and stories from aroundthe globe.
SPEAKER_01 (01:17):
All right, I'm gonna start off with a story.
It's one of the craziest storiesthat's ever happened in my life,
and I want to preface this bysaying there is there is one
brother who listens to NSR, andhe's a very, very close friend
of mine.
I love him.
Um he's a pastor friend, and hewas in this story.
He was he was in the story, anduh I just want to say that as I
(01:41):
tell this story, I I'm not gonnaname anybody, and I'm not trying
to ruin anybody's Christianwitness because I think
everybody in this story that I,from what I know, is walking
with Jesus and really trying tos and striving to serve the
Lord.
And so I'm not trying to hurtanybody, but I want to tell a
story that that gives the itgives the it makes the point
(02:05):
that sometimes forgiveness canbe extended, but the
consequences linger.
So uh some years ago I was onthe road.
I was out of town, uh, it wasabout three in the morning, my
phone rung.
I answered my phone.
Um actually, I'm sorry, my phonerung and I went and I went uh to
(02:26):
I thought it was my alarmbecause it was three in the
morning and I had my alarm setfor like 4 30, so I just didn't
realize it wasn't time to getup.
So I hit the snooze or thebutton or whatever to silence my
phone as it was going off.
And what I did was it was aphone call coming in, so it sent
it to voicemail.
(02:46):
So I'm laying there thinking myalarm just went off, just kind
of, you know, getting my eyesawake and getting ready to get
up.
I'm gonna kind of sit up on theedge of the bed where I was
staying, and like I said, I'm onthe road.
I think I was about three hoursfrom home, and I hear the
voicemail uh notification go offon my phone.
(03:06):
So pick that up.
Y'all uh uh before I go on, itnot only am I in the truck, but
it's raining, which praise theLord, because my food plot, my
food plot needs rain on it.
So I'm thankful for that, butit's raining, so uh hopefully
it's not too distracting.
Um be all right.
So anyway, the phone goes off.
(03:27):
Uh it's the voicemailnotification, so I listen to
that, and what I find out isit's a blocked number.
It's from a number I don't Idon't have this number.
I don't not only do I not havethe number, but the it's it's
blocked.
It's like it doesn't give me thenumber, doesn't tell me where
it's coming from.
You know how that works, whereit's like a block, it just says
(03:48):
blocked or whatever.
I forget what it said, but it'slike unknown caller.
That's what it is.
It says unknown caller.
So I I listen to the voicemail,and it's a really obscene,
threatening call about one of mydaughters.
Um and I mean it was it wasdark, man.
It was like, as a dad to girls,if you're not a girl dad, I'm
(04:12):
sure you can still imagine whatthis is like, but I can tell you
this if you're a man who hasdaughters, nothing will make you
lose your mind like somebodymessing with one of your girls.
And any man that don'tunderstand that, it just like I
don't I don't even like I would,I would, I will fight for my
girls to the death withouthesitation, without reservation.
(04:34):
And I would for my boys or mywife as well.
Don't don't don't miss what I'msaying.
I mean, I'm not trying to say,but uh for a dad to his
daughters, there is a there is adifferent mindset, man.
And you don't believe it, justgo to a girls' little league
softball game or a girls' highschool volleyball game and watch
them mamas and daddies get intoit and screaming and yelling and
(04:57):
stuff.
And man, that was some parent atthe game the other night from
the other team, my daughterGigi's game.
And I was like, that lady's outof her mind, man.
She's she's over the top.
People lose their mind when itcomes to their kids, but but in
all seriousness, if somebodyposes a legitimate threat to
your daughter as a man, you'reyou'll you'll go to war, you
(05:19):
know.
So this was a very threateningphone call.
Called my daughter very sexualand perverse and derogatory
things, and man, it was rough.
And so I'm listening to this onthe edge of the bed where I was
on the road at four in themorning, three in the morning,
three o'clock in the morning.
And y'all, I ain't lying, man.
(05:40):
I went numb.
Like I went numb.
I was like paralyzed with fearbecause it also felt like the
way the voicemail was left, theway this caller communicated, it
made it seem like he might bewatching my house or watching my
family or something like that.
You know, I'm like, oh man.
So I freaked out pretty good.
All right, y'all, I'm gonna takea break because it is dumping
(06:02):
rain and it's I know it's hardfor y'all to hear.
Let's see if I can get out ofthis rain and then I'll I'll
start back.
Okay, I think we're I thinkwe're clear, at least for now.
All right, so what I was sayingis I was freaking out because
this call was so threatening, itwas so sexually perverse.
So I get up, I get in a truck, Istart driving home.
It's it's three in the morning,I'm on the road, I'm throttled
down, man, I'm just hammereddown.
(06:23):
And I'm trying to call Little,because she ain't answering
because Little never answers thephone.
I don't know how many of you menout there can relate to this,
but Little don't answer when Icall.
She don't answer when nobodycalls.
And I'm like, of all times,please, I need you to answer the
phone.
And I'm I mean, I'm freakingout, man.
I'm like, answer the phone,answer the phone.
And after about five tries, sheanswers the phone.
(06:45):
And I say, get the kids, getthem to where you're at, get
them in the room, and uh, andI'm gonna change a few details
in this story, by the way.
Just there's a few little thingsI'm gonna change, time, place,
stuff like that.
Because I I want to be verycareful that that I protect the
people involved in this storythat that have repented and
turned to the Lord.
(07:05):
And so, anyhow, um I say, hey,get the kids in there with you
where you're at.
And so, as they get them in inthe room where you're at,
everybody in one room, uh pointa gun at the door, and if
anybody comes through that door,that front door or that
whatever, you start shooting andcall 911.
Um in the meantime, I calledCherokee County, North Carolina
(07:28):
dispatch and ask if they woulduh deploy a deputy to my house.
Um and so we did, and uh they Imean they did, and then that was
that.
So I get home and we end upgoing into this investigation
with the sheriff's office, workwith the sheriff's office.
(07:48):
It takes them a couple of weeksto figure out where they had
scrambled this number prettygood, and takes them a couple of
weeks working with, you know,Verizon or ATT.
I don't remember now how thisworked, but they're working with
phone records and um and andthey they track down a number.
They end up with a number and aname.
And so we end up we end up in aconversation with this man, and
(08:09):
and what it was, we weassociated them with a church
that had been to Snowbird, andso we end up setting up a
meeting with this with this manand his 17-year-old son, 17,
18-year-old son, who was the onewho had made the call.
(08:30):
And then there was a pastorthere, a pastor friend, it was
their pastor, and then me and Itook Tucker, my son.
And so we go and and me and Tuckgo and meet with this, meet with
this man and his son who is uhresponsible for this obscene
phone call.
And in that meeting, now we goand we sit down.
(08:52):
This this young man, I didn'tknow him, um, but he knew who I
was because he'd been to Sobird.
Uh, but but I knew the pastor,this student pastor, who's now a
senior pastor, but I knew thispastor and I trusted him 100%.
I was like, man, I'm so thankfulthat this is the guy, you know.
And so um I knew he would hewould have our back, but he
(09:13):
would also care about thisfamily and try to help them
navigate this.
I we weren't on a winch hunt.
When I realized it was the youngman, I was like, I want to scare
this dude good, and I want himto be responsible for what he's
done.
And so we were all workingtogether.
The dad, though, was a littlebit, I felt like, okay, the dad
doesn't seem like he seems alittle too, I wish he would be a
(09:35):
little more aggressive aboutthis, but I'm I'm not gonna
judge how somebody else ishandling their business.
And so we come into thatmeeting, and I just slid my
phone out in the middle of thetable and hit play, and I
played, I played the voicemail.
Now, I had already talked to thedad.
I had ended up calling thatnumber that the sheriff gave me,
uh, that the investigateinvestigator gave me, and I
(09:57):
talked to the dad, and I playedthe voicemail to him over the
phone.
He said, Yeah, that's my son.
So anyway, sat there, we workedthrough it.
The boy, you know, he freakedout pretty good.
I told him, I said, if I don't,if I don't deal with you, my son
here is gonna deal with you, butyou've you've messed with the
wrong people.
You know, I was I was hot, man,I ain't gonna lie.
And uh I think anybody canunderstand that.
(10:18):
He threatened my daughter,threatened her sexually.
Like, and so I think anybody canunderstand that, you know, and
and so the boy was repentant.
He started crying, he said, I'mso sorry.
He said it was a group of uswere up late at night.
His uh there was some peoplethere that were very opposed to
the gospel, that hateChristianity.
(10:39):
I think they had pressured himmore or less into doing this as
an act of rebellion, because Ithink this kid really was a
pretty good kid.
Um, and I think he just gotswept up in that moment and uh
and made a stupid decision.
And so he said he was sorry.
And so what I told him was Isaid, hey man, you can't come
back to Snowbird because for thelast two weeks, it had been two
(11:01):
weeks.
And I said, for two weeks,everyone has been on pins and
needles, everyone's been on edgebecause we've we thought someone
was stalking us.
And I and I should back up andsay, a few years prior, a couple
years before this, we had had agenuine stalker situation where
a guy, we found out about a guythat had put pictures of my
(11:26):
family all over his apartment.
And it was really weird.
And this guy was like, OCD, thissomething like out of a movie.
But he had pictures of my wife,my kids.
I don't think he had anypictures of me.
It was just my wife and kids.
And someone that uh went toschool with him, it was at a
university, was over at hishouse, and uh and he didn't know
(11:48):
they were coming.
They walked in, they're like,Why you got pictures of these
people or whatever?
And anyway, I don't want to gointo details there either,
because I don't want to messthis guy.
Uh it doesn't matter who thatguy was, but we had ended up
getting the police involved.
That was when I ended up gettinga handgun for my wife and had
her start carrying a handgunaround.
Um we were scared in thatsituation.
(12:12):
And because there was no crimecommitted, there was nothing
really to confront.
I did confront that dude andsaid, Hey man, why you got my
family's pictures all over yourhouse?
And I took a couple uh pastorswith me to confront him.
But anyway, so we had had asituation prior, so we're
already on pins and needles,we're on edge.
And that's why when people sayto me, like I had a couple staff
(12:34):
members this summer come up tome and they were joking, and
they and I was signing somebooks, and I had a couple girls
on my staff say, Oh, you'refamous, will you sign my book?
And I was like, Okay, first off,I'm not famous, but don't make
jokes about this.
If God's given us influence inpeople's lives, we should
recognize that for what it isand be thankful.
Like be legitimately gratefulfor that.
(12:56):
And you guys, you guys need tounderstand that being in the
public eye and being in asituation like I'm in, people
know who I am, they know who myfamily is.
That's why I'm pretty non-socialmedia, you know.
I don't I like it's a it's aweird situation to be in.
It just is.
And so, anyhow, I'm kind oframbling there, but but I don't
(13:19):
like to play around with thewhole, are you famous or that
like look, I want to use theplatform God's giving me to make
the most gospel impact that Ican make, but I ain't interested
in being famous, and I'm notinterested in building my brand
or anything like that.
But sometimes, man, when you'vegot a spotlight on you or you've
got a microphone or a camera infront of you, you end up in
(13:42):
weird situations.
And right now, this stuff withCharlie Kirk, man, it's got
everybody a little bit uh uhlike hyper aware of this, you
know, and it's like if you takea stand for something and you
speak out, you're gonna you'regonna draw attention.
And so anyhow, I'm I was I'vealways been a little bit just
like hyper aware of this stuff.
(14:03):
And so we had just come throughthat situation I was talking
about a couple years before.
So now we're in this othersituation, and I said, Look, I
ain't I ain't on a wedge hunthere, but you can't come back to
Snowbird because people thereare afraid of you.
They don't know who you are,they're afraid.
You've put everybody in kind ofa heightened sense of alert
(14:25):
awareness, and man, what you didis wrong, and the consequences
to your actions are you're notwelcome back at Snowbird.
Well, this guy, he said he wassorry, he apologized.
You go back to the last episode.
He was repentant, he asked forforgiveness, and I said, You are
forgiven.
I forgive you.
And I don't remember if I did itin that conversation.
(14:46):
I think it was in thatconversation.
Really wanted to make amends,and again, I trusted his youth
pastor.
And what I said to him is, Isaid, I'm willing to meet with
you, I'm willing to meet withyou monthly.
And and invest in youpersonally.
And that might mean thatoccasionally I drive, he lived
about maybe three hours away,three or four hours away from
(15:08):
us.
I was like, once a month, I'lldrive somewhere, meet you at a
Starbucks, and we'll sit down,and man, we'll talk about godly
biblical manhood and and andI'll invest in you, but you
cannot come back to SnowbirdWilderness Outfitters.
You're not welcome on ourproperty.
I've got to make sure my familyknows that I'm not just gonna,
because I I had told my family,hey, someone wants to do harm
(15:31):
potentially to one of the girls.
We've got to be vigilant.
And once we identified the guy,they knew who he was.
I couldn't go back to them andsay, oh, he said he's sorry,
it's okay, now he can come toSnowbird.
My family, man, it it wreakedterror with my family.
And so I said, Man, you'veburned that bridge.
You can't come to Snowbird.
(15:51):
But we can we can have arelationship, and your youth
pastor is an amazing brother whowill disciple you, and me and
him can work together and let'sbuild this thing, you know.
And and so the consequenceslingered even though forgiveness
was extended, you know.
And so sometime later he wastrying to come back to camp.
He was like, you know, some timehas passed.
(16:13):
Are we good?
And I was like, no, man, youcan't come back.
And so then his dad and his momboth sent me just really ugly.
The mom sent me a really uglyemail, and the dad left me a
really ugly voicemail.
And I get, man, I get it.
They're they're nice people, Ithink, probably.
They probably love the Lord, andthey're just trying to take up
for their boy.
(16:34):
But sorry, you threaten mydaughter, you don't get to come
around me.
Like, even if you say I'm sorry,will you forgive me?
And we reconcile that, that'sfine.
There are consequences thatsometimes linger.
The consequences of that youngman's actions were you ain't
coming around my family, man.
You're not coming around myfamily.
You crossed a line that that inthe in the code of manhood, you
(16:56):
crossed a line that this is agreat opportunity for you to
learn a lesson.
And that lesson is there'scertain lines you cross you
don't get to come back fromcompletely.
And that that's not me justbeing a jerk.
It's just for me, the message tomy sons and daughters needed to
be I've got you, I will protectyou.
Nothing in this planet is morevaluable to me than you.
(17:19):
And so that was that was that.
That is that's just how it is,okay?
So I cannot have my my familydoubting me as a provider,
protector, and shepherd.
And so that young man, while hewhile I have some responsibility
in his life, his dad and pastorhave the greater responsibility,
(17:40):
and I trust the pastor, andhopefully could trust the dad.
So, y'all take care of that,we'll take care of this.
I've told him I'll meet with himand invest in him, and we can
build a friendship, but youcan't come to Snowbird.
So when the dad sent me thegrumpy text message, when uh,
you know, sometime later theyasked if he he asked if he could
come back.
This young man was he he hadgotten a little older, he's up
(18:01):
into his 20s.
He's like, Can I come back toSnowbird?
I said, No.
If you want to come to a men'sconference, I said, No, you
can't, man.
You can't come.
Sorry.
And so, and I will say I soughtcounsel on this.
This was the men and leadershipat Snowbird agreed on this.
And uh so the dad, man, he heripped me in this, and then the
(18:23):
mom ripped me and said, You callyourself a Christian, which I I
hate it when somebody uses thatphrase.
You call yourself a Christian.
No, I don't call myself aChristian.
Jesus calls me a Christian.
Jesus has called me by name,Jesus has declared me righteous,
Jesus has washed me in hisblood, Jesus has made me his
(18:43):
own.
I'm no longer a slave to sin.
I'm a child of God and a slaveto righteousness.
I don't call myself nothing.
I just accept what Jesus hasdeclared about me.
So that's what that's who I am.
And so she said, you callyourself a Christian, but you
don't know how to extend graceto somebody.
The dad said the same thing.
(19:04):
I said, and I responded onetime, and then Little said,
don't respond anymore.
And my my response was, myresponse was, the grace is that
I didn't do anything to thisyoung man.
I didn't attack him, you know,or get him arrested or beat him
up or, you know, like legallycome after you.
Like the grace is that I said Iforgive you.
(19:26):
We can build a relationship, wecan move forward.
We're not talking about grace,we're talking about sometimes
there's consequences thatlinger.
And so I bring that up to say,man, don't have such a cheap
view of grace that you think,well, you said you you asked for
forgiven, I asked forforgiveness, so you gotta
forgive me, and we gotta actlike nothing ever happened.
(19:47):
No, sometimes things happen thatwe can't completely and entirely
move on from.
So I want to give you threeexamples from scripture um that
support this.
Um, with with three differentoutcomes.
The first one is think aboutMoses.
I'm gonna give you two briefstories and then one longer
biblical story, and that's howwe'll uh that's that's how we'll
(20:08):
end this episode.
So Moses was God's man.
The Bible said God talked withMoses the way two friends talked
to each other.
Man, they were close.
They had a special relationship,a very special bond.
Moses was the man of God.
But Moses sinned against theLord, and as a result, the
(20:29):
consequences that Moses facedwere he was not allowed to go
into the promised land.
God forgave Moses, God restoredMoses to relationship, God
reconciled Moses to himself, andthen for 40 years, Moses had to
live with the consequences ofhis actions.
And at the end of that 40 years,Moses was taken home to be with
(20:51):
the Lord, never having steppedfoot in the promised land.
But God's grace was biggerbecause you know what the
greater, wonderful picture is athousand years later, or
whatever, 1500 years later,whenever it was, at the Mount of
Transfiguration, Peter gets tosee, Peter would later report in
his epistle, I was with the Lordon the mountain, and I saw his
(21:14):
glory revealed.
When Christ was transfigured onthe mountain, Moses was there
with him.
And so Moses did enter thepromised land, but it was just
way different, and it was waylater, and it was after he was
glorified, and he entered thepromised land to meet with Jesus
on the night before his arrestand crucifixion.
(21:34):
And so God doesn't always endthe story, write the end of the
story the way that we wouldwrite it.
And but there's consequencesthat sometimes linger.
Moses is an example of that.
God was gracious to Moses.
He forgave Moses, he continuedto use Moses, he spoke so kindly
of Moses.
He brought Moses with him intothe transfiguration.
(21:57):
But there were aspects of Moses'actions and decisions that the
consequences lingered.
Second story.
This one's a little uh give alittle more comment on this.
In the life of David, if youpick up in 2 Samuel, along about
2 Samuel, I think about chapter9, 8, 9, somewhere right in
(22:17):
there.
King David shows kindness toSaul's son, Mephibosheth.
And there's this really coolpicture where he brings him into
his home, sits him at his table,and it's a and it's a beautiful
picture of a man who is alignedwith the heart and grace of God.
Uh this was the grandson of aking who David, everybody
(22:41):
expected David would want tokill this young man, but he
doesn't.
He restores the relationshipbetween the two houses and
brings this young manMephibosheth into his home.
The very next chapter showsIsrael going to war.
And in that war, Israel fightssome pretty intense enemies.
(23:01):
And it's a crazy story, and yousee the, you see just the
courage and leadership and valorof Joab and his men, and it's I
mean, it's an intense picture ofbattle.
The next chapter begins withDavid being at home the
following spring.
It says, in the spring of theyear, when kings go off to war,
(23:23):
David is at home.
And David's at home, and whatDavid does is while he's at
home, he commits adultery withBathsheba.
You might be familiar with thatstory.
Bathsheba is the wife to one ofDavid's uh elite operators.
Like there's this group of tierone guys, think of DevGrew,
(23:43):
think of, you know, SEAL Team 6,think of think of that, think of
DevGrew, think of Delta, um, oreven think of the like tier two
units, like the Army Rangers orsomething like that.
Um, or think of, you know, uhthat special operations world.
This guy that operates in thatworld, he was one of David's
mighty men.
(24:04):
His name is Uriah.
Uriah had been with David for along time, man.
They had fought a lot of warstogether.
At this point, David's about myage.
He's in his 50s.
David had been with Uriah sinceDavid was in his 20s, y'all.
That's if I now go check me onthis work, but I'm pretty sure
Uriah came to David in the caveup in the cave at Adullum when
David was on the run from Saul,which would have been when David
(24:27):
was, he might have been 30.
He might have been 30 years old,20s, maybe 30.
So Uriah's been with David forat least 20 years.
And Uriah's married to thisgirl.
Her name's Bathsheba, andapparently apparently she's just
beautiful.
And David had like a bunch ofwives and concubines.
David was a super immoral dude.
Uh super immoral.
He was a man, he was a it'scrazy because you you get hope
(24:50):
from a guy like David because itsays he's a man after God's own
heart.
Just like with Moses, it sayshe, you know, he walked with God
and talked with God as a manspeaks with a friend.
We learn from these men thatthey're not flawless.
They're like us.
We identify with them in theirweaknesses.
But David was not a good person,man.
He was like sleeping around, andhe had these sex slaves.
(25:12):
They call them concubines, butthey're just sexually trafficked
women, you know?
And it's crazy because he's thepsalmist, you know, and it and
and you just realize how brokenhumanity can be.
And so David, he he branchesout, man.
He's like, I'm gonna, I'm gonnahave sex with Bathsheba.
With my my guy Uriah, my man, mydog, we've been to war together.
(25:34):
We fought many battles together,we've been on many operations
together.
He had fought alongside of Uriahso much, they're so close.
And David, while Uriah's offfighting David's battles, David
goes and has sex with Uriah'swife.
I don't know the nature of it.
I don't know if she didn't havea say-so in the matter because
he's the king.
I don't know if she seduced him.
(25:54):
I don't know.
We don't know.
It doesn't give us thosedetails.
I've heard guys speculate inevery kind of way.
Some guys say, oh, she's on theroof naked, she knew he was
watching.
Other guys say, heck no, man.
David was, she was just in theprivacy of her home, but because
of his vantage point, nobody wasprivate from the king.
I've heard it told both ways.
I don't know.
We're not told.
I just know she was complicit tohave sex with him, either
(26:19):
forcibly or willingly.
That part doesn't really matter,I don't think, to the s to the
to the narrative or the story.
David committed adultery, andthen this is where the story
gets so dark.
Okay, so dark.
David gets Uriah to come homefrom the battle.
And he sends for Uriah.
Uriah comes home, he tries toget Uriah to go have sex with
(26:41):
his own wife.
That way he can say, Oh, she'spregnant.
Oh, oh, oh, I'm sorry.
She sends and tells David, Hey,I'm pregnant.
You got me pregnant.
So David sends for her husband,brings him home, tells the
husband, go have sex with yourwife, go spend the night at
home.
I just need a report from thebattle.
Thanks for coming and telling menow go have sex with your wife.
And then Uriah's like, I'm notgonna do that.
(27:01):
My men are in battle.
I need to be in battle.
That should have been themindset David had, but it
wasn't.
It's the mindset Uriah hadbecause he's the more honorable
man.
And so Uriah, he practices notjust fidelity to his wife, he
practices fidelity to the Lordbecause he felt like God's call
for his life was to be awarrior, to be, to be in, in
(27:22):
military service, to be on thisoperation.
And so he's like, no, I need togo back to my men.
And so he refuses.
And so, and David even gets himdrunk.
David has him get like he getshim drunk, thinking, okay, his
discretion will be off, thenhe'll sleep with his wife, and
he won't do it.
Your eye goes back to battle.
David then, listen, y'all.
(27:43):
David has a group of men sent ona suicide mission and has them
all wiped out.
So imagine a team of dev growoperators or a Delta Force unit.
Or imagine uh, imagine a SEALteam, like one team, a uh like a
fire team of Marines, whatever,like a group of guys, and you
(28:06):
have the entire rest of thefighting force isolate those
guys and then abandon them.
That's what David did.
He had, and Joab, his mainofficer, the captain of his
guard, the head guy, he's he'sthe one that like carries out
the order.
So it's a dark story, man.
David has a group of guysmurdered, essentially.
(28:29):
This guy named Uriah.
David has him killed, but tomake it not look so obvious, he
has a bunch of other guyskilled, all guys who are his
close friends, companions,partners, guys he's fought with,
fought alongside of.
They're his, they're like histier one guys.
He has them all killed, sendsthem on a suicide mission.
That way, Uriah doesn't knowhe's dead.
(28:53):
David can quote unquote comfortBathsheba, and then she can have
a baby.
Well, everybody figures it out,you know, obviously.
And y'all, it's one of thedarkest stories in the Bible to
me.
Like to think of killing a groupof my buddies like that, that's
just dark.
But then to think that this dudekilled a group of his closest
friends because he had had sexwith one of their wives, and
(29:14):
then he wanted to cover it allup.
It's just dark.
And so God confronts David overhis sin, and David's tore up
about it.
We see true repentance.
If you go read Psalm 51, you seetrue repentance in David's heart
over this.
He says, Against you, Lord,against you and you only have I
sinned and done what is evil inyour sight, that you may be
(29:35):
proved just when you speak andjustified when you judge.
So he's like, God is just, hisjudgment is right, whatever I
like, I'll receive from the Lordwhatever he gives me because I
deserve it.
And uh, but he also pleads toGod for mercy in that Psalm,
Psalm 51.
It's a psalm of repentance,asking God for mercy.
He's like, Um, have mercy on me,O Lord, according to your
(29:56):
unfailing love, according toyour mercy.
Mercy and your kindness, blotout my transgression.
I know my sin.
It's always before me.
And so he he he he asks his heasks of the Lord.
He asks of the Lord, purge mewith hyssop, wash me, and I'll
be white as snow.
(30:18):
He's asking God to cleanse him.
He sees his sin and he repents.
And so go back to what we talkedabout last week.
He is repentant.
He is seeking restoredfellowship with God.
But guess what?
He cannot be reconciled to Uriahbecause he killed him.
He can't be reconciled to thoseother dudes that he had killed.
(30:38):
It's a mess.
And so he gets forgiveness fromthe Lord.
He's reconciled to God.
But now there's going to be thelingering consequences of his
sin.
He's got a widow to take care ofbecause he killed her husband.
He got her pregnant.
The baby dies.
The baby dies.
And some people think it's God'shand of judgment, which that's
(30:59):
another conversation.
Like, because I don't want toget somebody screwed up
theologically and think that ifyou make mistakes, God's going
to kill your baby.
That is not the moral at anypoint in the story.
It's not how God judges.
But God is sovereign.
So God uh God brings judgment onDavid and He and He actually
says to him, Not only judgmentcoming on you, it's coming on
(31:21):
your entire house.
I forgive you.
You're restored, but the swordwill never depart from your
house.
There will be conflict in yourhome because of the way you've
chosen to live your life.
God forgave David.
God restored David.
God loved David.
God was with David.
But y'all, the rest of David'slife, literally the rest of his
(31:42):
life, was a train wreck.
And so what happens is his kidsstart, I mean, acting out.
One son named Amnon rapes ahalf-sister named Tamar, because
David had baby mamas.
He had kids by a bunch of babymamas.
So he had all these halfsiblings.
So this dude, Amnon, rapes thisgirl, Tamar, who's his sister.
(32:05):
And then her brother Absalom,who's her full brother, they got
the same mama.
He he goes, it's a crazy story,man.
And then it gets out to herbrother Absalom.
Absalom takes her, puts heraway, and provides her with
protection, but it's a sad storybecause she's never allowed to
(32:27):
marry, I think.
If I remember the way the storygoes, if I remember reading it
right, she never gets to marry.
It's just a crazy story.
It's like, man, what a sadbecause that dude, Amnon, when
he rapes her, after he rapesher, it says he hates her.
Like he looks at her withdisdain.
He's like, you're just a pieceof trash.
It's awful.
And so her brother, her fullbrother, Absalom, he's like, all
(32:50):
right, all right, we'll we'lltake care of this.
Well, Absalom's a dog, man.
He's like, he's a fighter.
That dude's a dog.
He's not a good person, but hegot some dog in him.
He waits like two or three yearsand then sets up a meeting where
he ends up killing this brotherAmnon, kills him.
And so David freaks out aboutit, and then David sends Absalom
(33:16):
to live in like exile for thenext three years.
And then Absalom sends a messageto David and says, What the
heck, man?
I just took up for my sister.
What are you doing?
Am I gonna have to live out herein exile?
You know, like, and then David'slike, No, no, no, no, you come,
I'm sorry.
Like, come and be with me in mypalace.
And so they reunite.
(33:37):
It's been like three, no, I'mthinking it's been like five
years since David's seen his sonAbsalom.
They reunite, but then Davidtells Absalom, All right, all
right, you're back, you're home,you're living in the palace.
And then he doesn't talk to himanymore.
So Absalom ends up turning onDavid, and then there's this
civil war that breaks out.
Absalom gets killed by Joab, thesame guy that carried out the
(34:00):
mission to get Uriah killed.
It's just dark and broken.
And you go, Good Lord, you'rereading it and you're going,
this is a jacked-up story.
And then David gets old and doesa couple stupid things, and then
he gets old and he's so old thathe can't even get out of bed and
he dies.
And you go, wait a minute.
(34:21):
David's a man after God's ownheart?
Yes.
But the consequences of hisactions destroyed his family.
Y'all, every single week of mylife, I talk to teenagers whose
families have come apart andtheir lives are dysfunctional.
When people make decisions thataffect others, you can give
(34:41):
forgiveness for that, butsometimes the consequences just
linger.
Sometimes for a while, sometimesforever.
Forever.
A man cheats on his wife and sheleaves him and she remarries.
She might forgive him.
God forgives him.
He becomes repentant.
The consequences are he ruinedhis marriage and he can't be
(35:02):
married to her again, you know?
Something like that.
Somebody, somebody gets drunkand goes driving, they have a
wreck and they kill somebody orend up paralyzed.
Man, God can forgive them forthat, but the that doesn't bring
that dead person back, or thatdoesn't unparalyze them.
Now you got a quadruplegicwho's, you know, so damaged.
(35:24):
Um so so let's say, let's saythat the guy has a car wreck and
and ends up as a paraplegic in awheelchair, and he says, Lord,
forgive me for drinking anddriving.
I killed somebody and now I'm ina wheelchair.
And God says, I forgive you, Ilove you, I'll give you a
meaningful life, we'll make themost out of this, we'll work all
(35:45):
of this for my glory and foryour good.
And there can be a lot ofredeeming value that comes in
that guy's story, but thatdoesn't get him out of the
wheelchair in his life, and itdon't bring the dead person
back, you know.
Sometimes consequences linger.
So when that kid threatened myfamily and his parents said,
Where's the grace?
(36:05):
The grace is that I forgive him.
And that we can be brothers inChrist and we can forgive each
other and move on, but I'm notgonna let him round my
daughters.
I'm not gonna send that messageto them.
It's consequences to hisactions.
That ain't on me, that's on him.
He shouldn't have picked thatphone up and called my daughter
the things he called her andaccused her of the things he
accused her of and threatenedher in the way he threatened
(36:26):
her.
If he wouldn't have done that,we wouldn't be having this
conversation.
You know, by the way, the Davidstory, even after David dies,
the consequences linger becausethere's a civil war that breaks
out uh when his son Solomonascends the throne.
There's two boys, two of hisboys are kind of vying for
kingship and they end upfighting.
I mean, it's crazy.
It's crazy.
(36:47):
It goes on past his life.
You see that a lot too, whereone person's actions affect
multiple generations.
But anyway, the other story isthere's a scene in the New
Testament book of Acts wherethere's a missionary journey
that Paul's on.
He's traveling, and there's aguy named John Mark.
He's the guy that wrote theGospel of Mark.
(37:07):
And John Mark is one of Paul'sguys, but he's come onto the
team by way of um Barnabas.
Barnabas is John Mark's uncle,and Barnabas is Paul's uh
partner in ministry.
And so they go on this, and theywould always take young dudes
with them, and they're alwayslike discipling, mentoring, and
training up young dudes.
(37:28):
And so they take John Mark onthis missionary trip.
They're gonna be on the road formonths, maybe years, traveling
and preaching, and they're gonnago to hostile territories
through the wilderness.
At one point, Paul was like,it's so bad.
There were wild animals outthere that were trying to kill
us.
There were people that robbedus.
It was hard, man.
It was hard sled and it wasrough life ministry.
(37:50):
And that dude, John Mark, hequit and went home.
He's like, I'm out.
I didn't sign up for this.
It's too hard.
And he quit him.
He quit the team.
And so sometime later, he wantsto come back on the team.
And Paul's like, No, you're not,you're done, man.
You quit us in our hour of need.
You can't be on this team.
And Barnabas is like, what theheck, man?
Where's the grace?
Can't you forgive him?
(38:10):
I forgive him.
Paul's like, yeah, I forgivehim, but he's not gonna be on
our team.
And Paul doesn't let him back onthe team.
And so Barnabas is like, allright, I'm out.
And it says a sharp disagreementarose between them and they
parted ways.
And so Barnabas goes and takesJohn Mark, and then Paul he does
his own thing and they go indifferent directions.
And so you see the consequencesof one man's actions have
(38:33):
far-reaching effects.
Now, the cool thing to thatstory is Barnabas was faithful
to the Lord.
Paul was faithful to the Lord.
Barnabas trained up John Mark.
Uh, Paul, I'm pulling intoRonnie Mason's sporting goods
store here, where you can lookat guns, fishing supplies, and
buy dog food for your huntingdogs, is right here in Topton,
(38:55):
North Carolina, beside Andrews,a couple miles up the road from
my house.
A little piece of culture righthere.
Um, I'm gonna go in and see mybuddy Ronnie.
Ronnie's in his 70s.
He's a he's a mountain man, he'sa hillbilly.
Um, but anyhow, Silas went, solet me make sure I get all these
names right.
Paul started a new team.
He had Silas with himeventually, he had Luke with
(39:16):
him, he had uh Timothy, Titus,Barnabas went and took John
Mark, and everybody dideffective ministry.
And it's really cool.
At the end of 2 Timothy, yearslater, Paul says, send John John
Mark to me.
He's profitable for ministry.
That dude, he came around.
And so we see that and in theend, there was restored
(39:37):
fellowship and friendshipbetween those guys.
Um, and so sometimes theconsequences linger for a long
time, but then even thoseconsequences go away, which is
really cool.
And uh and I'll close with astory or two about that.
But but before I do that, let mejust say uh when you read 2
(39:57):
Timothy, Paul names severalpeople.
I read back through it thismorning thinking about this, and
he named some folks in positivelight, he named some folks in
neutral light, and he named somefolks in negative light.
So he says some negative thingsabout some guys in there.
He's like, you know, he talksabout Demas, and we did a whole
episode on Demas.
Demas is in love with thispresent world, he's abandoned
(40:20):
us.
And he talks about some guysthat are caught up, got caught
up in bickering, and I would, Iwould categorize them as people
that bicker over secondarydoctrine or or conspiracy
theorists that get caught up inpolitical stuff, or you know,
something like that.
Like they he talks about theseguys, and then he talks about
some other guys that uh are poin a positive light, but they're
(40:44):
just not with him.
He's like, man, I'm in 2Timothy, Paul's about to die.
Uh and he he's writing thisletter to Timothy, and he says,
you know, so-and-so has goneover here to do ministry,
so-and-so has gone over here todo ministry, so-and-so has
abandoned me.
Luke is here with me, but I needyou to send, and he says, I need
you to send John Mark, becausehe's become useful to me for
(41:05):
ministry.
So you've got this distinctionthat among even other effective
ministers, the relationship hasbeen restored to the point that
he wants him there.
John John Mark is now needed andwanted, even though Paul had had
separated from him earlier.
And so sometimes theconsequences linger for a long
(41:26):
time, and then eventually, eventhose consequences go away.
But that sometimes that's onGod's timeline, not on mine.
And so with David all the way tothe end of his life, and even
into the next generation, theconsequences linger.
With John Mark, the consequenceslast a long time, and eventually
time heals those wounds, andJohn Mark has a chance to prove
(41:47):
himself and he does it.
Uh with Moses, the consequenceslinger all the way to the end of
his life, and then we see thisreally cool picture of
restoration when he appears withJesus in the Mount of
Transfiguration.
And so in our lives, there maybe times where there's
consequences.
You know, that story I told atthe beginning, maybe one day
there'll be uh some restoredfellowship uh or restore I don't
(42:12):
know.
I don't know.
I don't know what God's gonnado.
But I'm op my heart will alwaysbe open to it, but then there's
certain things now I have a deepconviction that I will not, you
know, that I won't compromise tojust to just to try to make
things more comfortable foreverybody, if that makes sense.
And then I think uh I I canthink of stories, I think of one
(42:35):
story where a guy, again, I'mgonna be cryptic, and I said I
wanted to close with a story ortwo.
At least tell one.
There was a guy that had come tome several years ago and he
said, Hey man, I want to do whatwe need to do to make amends and
put things right.
This is a different story.
(42:56):
And that was because a few yearsprior to that, there had been
some conflict that had hadturned into broken fellowship
between some believers.
At the middle of that conflictwas a lady that was causing a
lot of conflict.
Like she had created a lot ofdissension within a couple of
(43:17):
ministries, two or threeministries, and Snowbird was one
of them, and Red Oak was one ofthem, and a couple of churches,
and and she had created a lot ofdivision and strife and
conflict.
And we there was a point wherewe had to agree to disagree with
some people and say, hey, let'sgo our separate ways.
Some of those people eventuallycame back around and said, Hey,
(43:41):
what do we got to do to restorefellowship?
And it was really cool.
We sat down and and and workedthrough things together and were
able to restore fellowship.
So sometimes it it takes sometime, and the main thing is
this.
Here's what I want to end with.
You cannot live with a seed ofbitterness, and you cannot live
(44:01):
with the with the attitude ofvengeance.
You're like when you have brokenfellowship, or there's we agree
to disagree, and things lingerand we gotta go our separate
ways, and it's hard toreconcile.
You cannot let bitternesscontrol you.
So when I think about thesituations in my life where
there's long-term brokenfellowship, and I think, man,
(44:24):
I'm we're supposed to have aministry of reconciliation.
Why can't we work this out?
Here's what I'll say (44:28):
my personal battle is it becomes
not a battle against this otherperson.
Like the story I told about theyoung man that caused a lot of
trauma for my family, emotionaland psychological.
I hate to use the word trauma.
I guess thrown around nowadays,but he attacked my family.
What I had to do is make sure myheart was right and I don't have
(44:49):
any bitterness towards him orhis parents.
It's just a matter of fact.
We can't, you can't be here onthis facility.
You know, that that that'sthat's the battle that we gotta
fight.
I'm not gonna be bitter, I'm notgonna be mad at this person.
Um So I, you know, I think withPaul, that was probably his
struggle with John Mark.
I I don't want to be bitter.
(45:10):
I'm not mad at him, I don't hatehim, but he can't be on my team.
That takes some discretion, somediscernment, some wisdom, and
some humility.
And I think John Mark had thosethings eventually.
He grew into those things, and Ithink Paul fought for those
things too.
And then we see conflict withPaul and other people.
Paul and Peter have conflict.
You know, Paul says, Man, I hadto confront Peter to his face in
(45:31):
front of people.
So conflict is part of theChristian experience.
It's part of how the body ofChrist works.
We need to do it well.
We need to strive to extendforgiveness.
It takes two for peace and onefor war.
I can wage war on somebody else,but in order for there to be
peace between me and anotherperson, we gotta both come to
the table.
Reconciliation requires twopeople.
(45:52):
Forgiveness and repentancerequire one.
You put it all together, you getreconciliation.
But I can strive to live atpeace with all people, but I can
also agree to disagree at times.
What I cannot do is allowbitterness to control me.
I cannot have a the Lord says inthe book of Romans, vengeance is
mine.
And so if there's somethingthat's been done against you.
(46:14):
Now this gets into a whole othercategory.
And we mentioned this in thefirst in the last episode.
But, you know, you were wrongedby someone who legitimately
harmed you.
Leave that vengeance to theLord.
Don't, don't, not only don't becontrolled by bitterness, but
don't be controlled and consumedby a desire for vengeance.
(46:35):
Release that into the hands ofGod and trust him with it.
And so don't let bitternesscontrol you and strive to live
at peace.
And know that sometimes you mayhave to live with extend
extending and extend uhextensive or extending um
consequences to to actions andbehaviors.
And just know the Lord's theLord's got that.
(46:55):
He's he's good with that.
He he can control it as long asyour heart is right before him.
I hope that you find meaning inthis episode, in both of these
episodes, that they're helpful.
The next couple episodes we'llbe turning back to the interview
style.
We got some, like I said, I'mexcited about some conversations
we're having.
Um even today, as this episodedrops, we are interviewing uh a
(47:20):
person that I'm real excited fory'all to hear from, a missionary
who faced death and umpersecution in the most real
way, uh, death of familymembers, uh, persecution,
martyrdom, and has an incredibleand dynamic testimony, and I'm
excited and is a very dear andclose friend to this ministry
and to my family.
(47:41):
Excited for y'all to hear that.
And uh yeah, we got a goodlineup ahead of us.
Next week we'll be meeting witha young lady who's uh who's in
that episode will be a few weeksout, but who has a dynamic
testimony of God's grace in herlife.
And she also happens to be uhpart of the turning point
organization, so uh we scheduledthis before the Charlie Kirk
(48:01):
murder, but it'll be interestingto get her take on some of that
as well.
But that's not why we'rebringing her on.
We're bringing her on to to hearher story, which is phenomenal.
She's a kid that grew up comingto SWO, coming to Snowbird, and
um anyway, God's done some coolstuff in her life, some been
through some amazingdifficulties and has come out
just faithfully following Jesus.
(48:23):
And I'm excited for you to hearfrom her.
Anyhow, um thank you guys, allof you.
Um one personal announcement, Iwill say, my son Tucker Holloway
is in the transfer portal.
So um, those of you that keep upwith with his football, he you
will not see him in the boxscore at Virginia Tech because
he's not he's not playing therest of the season.
(48:43):
He'll take a red shirt.
Uh he's in the portal and he'lltransfer somewhere.
So this will be a fun journey.
We'll see how where he ends up.
I'm excited to see what God hasfor him in this next chapter.
But I would ask that you prayfor him.
I would also ask that youcontinue to pray for our
missionaries and specifically mydaughter and granddaughter and
son-in-law, that God wouldcontinue to give them favor and
the four ladies from Snowbirdthat are there serving with him,
(49:06):
just trusting the Lord to doawesome things in this season of
ministry.
And then here, lastly, here atSnowbird, we just had our men's
conference uh two weekends ago.
It was awesome, incredible.
We focused on penalsubstitutionary atonement.
We we mentioned that in aprevious episode.
We had, I don't know, about 500men in-house.
It was awesome.
The Lord did awesome things,incredible things, and uh really
(49:30):
enjoyed the weekend.
Great conversations.
God moved.
It was wonderful.
We've got three fall retreatscoming up back to back to back,
boom, boom, boom, the next threeweekends, followed by our fall
marriage conference.
And uh so lots going on atSnowbird, and we're excited
about what God's doing.
And so just ask you to pray forthe ministry here.
(49:50):
And if you've never been here,come and be a part of it.
Come attend, get on get on thewebsite, uh swoutfitters.com or
download the app and and uh seewhat we've got coming up,
something that maybe you'd liketo attend, reach out, holler at
us.
And if nothing else, just comeup here, we'll give you a tour,
we'll show you around the place,and uh we'll have a good time.
It'll be awesome.
(50:12):
Thank y'all for listening to NoSanity Required, and we'll see
you next week.
SPEAKER_00 (50:16):
Thanks for listening to No Sanity Required.
Please take a moment tosubscribe and leave a rating.
It really helps.
Visit us at swooutfitters.com tosee all of our programming and
resources.
And we'll see you next week onNo Sanity Required.
Okay, I'm back in the saddle.
I'm on the road again likeWillie Nelson.
I'm on I'm gonna record part twoto that last episode.
We had uh good response fromlast episode, but what's funny
is I didn't really say in thatepisode everything I wanted to
say.
Like I didn't even it didn'teven get to where I wanted to
get to.
I didn't realize how long it wasgonna take me to just lay the
(00:21):
foundation for what I want totalk about.
So part two today we're gonnatalk about the consequences that
linger sometimes in our lives,even after God's grace or the
grace of others has beenprovided.
We've been forgiven, we've beenset free from our mistakes, but
sometimes consequences linger,and we gotta learn to live with
those consequences.
(00:42):
We can live with thoseconsequences receiving the same
grace that we received in God'sforgiveness for what caused
those consequences, if thatmakes sense.
All right, so this is gonna be agood one.
I'm excited, I'm gonna tell somestories.
I'm gonna finally get to thosestories I wanted to tell.
Pretty intense.
Buckle up.
Welcome to No Sanity Required.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Welcome to No Sanity Required, from the Ministry of
Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters,a podcast about the Bible,
culture, and stories from aroundthe globe.
SPEAKER_01 (01:17):
All right, I'm gonna start off with a story.
It's one of the craziest storiesthat's ever happened in my life,
and I want to preface this bysaying there is there is one
brother who listens to NSR, andhe's a very, very close friend
of mine.
I love him.
Um he's a pastor friend, and hewas in this story.
He was he was in the story, anduh I just want to say that as I
(01:41):
tell this story, I I'm not gonnaname anybody, and I'm not trying
to ruin anybody's Christianwitness because I think
everybody in this story that I,from what I know, is walking
with Jesus and really trying tos and striving to serve the
Lord.
And so I'm not trying to hurtanybody, but I want to tell a
story that that gives the itgives the it makes the point
(02:05):
that sometimes forgiveness canbe extended, but the
consequences linger.
So uh some years ago I was onthe road.
I was out of town, uh, it wasabout three in the morning, my
phone rung.
I answered my phone.
Um actually, I'm sorry, my phonerung and I went and I went uh to
(02:26):
I thought it was my alarmbecause it was three in the
morning and I had my alarm setfor like 4 30, so I just didn't
realize it wasn't time to getup.
So I hit the snooze or thebutton or whatever to silence my
phone as it was going off.
And what I did was it was aphone call coming in, so it sent
it to voicemail.
(02:46):
So I'm laying there thinking myalarm just went off, just kind
of, you know, getting my eyesawake and getting ready to get
up.
I'm gonna kind of sit up on theedge of the bed where I was
staying, and like I said, I'm onthe road.
I think I was about three hoursfrom home, and I hear the
voicemail uh notification go offon my phone.
(03:06):
So pick that up.
Y'all uh uh before I go on, itnot only am I in the truck, but
it's raining, which praise theLord, because my food plot, my
food plot needs rain on it.
So I'm thankful for that, butit's raining, so uh hopefully
it's not too distracting.
Um be all right.
So anyway, the phone goes off.
(03:27):
Uh it's the voicemailnotification, so I listen to
that, and what I find out isit's a blocked number.
It's from a number I don't Idon't have this number.
I don't not only do I not havethe number, but the it's it's
blocked.
It's like it doesn't give me thenumber, doesn't tell me where
it's coming from.
You know how that works, whereit's like a block, it just says
(03:48):
blocked or whatever.
I forget what it said, but it'slike unknown caller.
That's what it is.
It says unknown caller.
So I I listen to the voicemail,and it's a really obscene,
threatening call about one of mydaughters.
Um and I mean it was it wasdark, man.
It was like, as a dad to girls,if you're not a girl dad, I'm
(04:12):
sure you can still imagine whatthis is like, but I can tell you
this if you're a man who hasdaughters, nothing will make you
lose your mind like somebodymessing with one of your girls.
And any man that don'tunderstand that, it just like I
don't I don't even like I would,I would, I will fight for my
girls to the death withouthesitation, without reservation.
(04:34):
And I would for my boys or mywife as well.
Don't don't don't miss what I'msaying.
I mean, I'm not trying to say,but uh for a dad to his
daughters, there is a there is adifferent mindset, man.
And you don't believe it, justgo to a girls' little league
softball game or a girls' highschool volleyball game and watch
them mamas and daddies get intoit and screaming and yelling and
(04:57):
stuff.
And man, that was some parent atthe game the other night from
the other team, my daughterGigi's game.
And I was like, that lady's outof her mind, man.
She's she's over the top.
People lose their mind when itcomes to their kids, but but in
all seriousness, if somebodyposes a legitimate threat to
your daughter as a man, you'reyou'll you'll go to war, you
(05:19):
know.
So this was a very threateningphone call.
Called my daughter very sexualand perverse and derogatory
things, and man, it was rough.
And so I'm listening to this onthe edge of the bed where I was
on the road at four in themorning, three in the morning,
three o'clock in the morning.
And y'all, I ain't lying, man.
(05:40):
I went numb.
Like I went numb.
I was like paralyzed with fearbecause it also felt like the
way the voicemail was left, theway this caller communicated, it
made it seem like he might bewatching my house or watching my
family or something like that.
You know, I'm like, oh man.
So I freaked out pretty good.
All right, y'all, I'm gonna takea break because it is dumping
(06:02):
rain and it's I know it's hardfor y'all to hear.
Let's see if I can get out ofthis rain and then I'll I'll
start back.
Okay, I think we're I thinkwe're clear, at least for now.
All right, so what I was sayingis I was freaking out because
this call was so threatening, itwas so sexually perverse.
So I get up, I get in a truck, Istart driving home.
It's it's three in the morning,I'm on the road, I'm throttled
down, man, I'm just hammereddown.
(06:23):
And I'm trying to call Little,because she ain't answering
because Little never answers thephone.
I don't know how many of you menout there can relate to this,
but Little don't answer when Icall.
She don't answer when nobodycalls.
And I'm like, of all times,please, I need you to answer the
phone.
And I'm I mean, I'm freakingout, man.
I'm like, answer the phone,answer the phone.
And after about five tries, sheanswers the phone.
(06:45):
And I say, get the kids, getthem to where you're at, get
them in the room, and uh, andI'm gonna change a few details
in this story, by the way.
Just there's a few little thingsI'm gonna change, time, place,
stuff like that.
Because I I want to be verycareful that that I protect the
people involved in this storythat that have repented and
turned to the Lord.
(07:05):
And so, anyhow, um I say, hey,get the kids in there with you
where you're at.
And so, as they get them in inthe room where you're at,
everybody in one room, uh pointa gun at the door, and if
anybody comes through that door,that front door or that
whatever, you start shooting andcall 911.
Um in the meantime, I calledCherokee County, North Carolina
(07:28):
dispatch and ask if they woulduh deploy a deputy to my house.
Um and so we did, and uh they Imean they did, and then that was
that.
So I get home and we end upgoing into this investigation
with the sheriff's office, workwith the sheriff's office.
(07:48):
It takes them a couple of weeksto figure out where they had
scrambled this number prettygood, and takes them a couple of
weeks working with, you know,Verizon or ATT.
I don't remember now how thisworked, but they're working with
phone records and um and andthey they track down a number.
They end up with a number and aname.
And so we end up we end up in aconversation with this man, and
(08:09):
and what it was, we weassociated them with a church
that had been to Snowbird, andso we end up setting up a
meeting with this with this manand his 17-year-old son, 17,
18-year-old son, who was the onewho had made the call.
(08:30):
And then there was a pastorthere, a pastor friend, it was
their pastor, and then me and Itook Tucker, my son.
And so we go and and me and Tuckgo and meet with this, meet with
this man and his son who is uhresponsible for this obscene
phone call.
And in that meeting, now we goand we sit down.
(08:52):
This this young man, I didn'tknow him, um, but he knew who I
was because he'd been to Sobird.
Uh, but but I knew the pastor,this student pastor, who's now a
senior pastor, but I knew thispastor and I trusted him 100%.
I was like, man, I'm so thankfulthat this is the guy, you know.
And so um I knew he would hewould have our back, but he
(09:13):
would also care about thisfamily and try to help them
navigate this.
I we weren't on a winch hunt.
When I realized it was the youngman, I was like, I want to scare
this dude good, and I want himto be responsible for what he's
done.
And so we were all workingtogether.
The dad, though, was a littlebit, I felt like, okay, the dad
doesn't seem like he seems alittle too, I wish he would be a
(09:35):
little more aggressive aboutthis, but I'm I'm not gonna
judge how somebody else ishandling their business.
And so we come into thatmeeting, and I just slid my
phone out in the middle of thetable and hit play, and I
played, I played the voicemail.
Now, I had already talked to thedad.
I had ended up calling thatnumber that the sheriff gave me,
uh, that the investigateinvestigator gave me, and I
(09:57):
talked to the dad, and I playedthe voicemail to him over the
phone.
He said, Yeah, that's my son.
So anyway, sat there, we workedthrough it.
The boy, you know, he freakedout pretty good.
I told him, I said, if I don't,if I don't deal with you, my son
here is gonna deal with you, butyou've you've messed with the
wrong people.
You know, I was I was hot, man,I ain't gonna lie.
And uh I think anybody canunderstand that.
(10:18):
He threatened my daughter,threatened her sexually.
Like, and so I think anybody canunderstand that, you know, and
and so the boy was repentant.
He started crying, he said, I'mso sorry.
He said it was a group of uswere up late at night.
His uh there was some peoplethere that were very opposed to
the gospel, that hateChristianity.
(10:39):
I think they had pressured himmore or less into doing this as
an act of rebellion, because Ithink this kid really was a
pretty good kid.
Um, and I think he just gotswept up in that moment and uh
and made a stupid decision.
And so he said he was sorry.
And so what I told him was Isaid, hey man, you can't come
back to Snowbird because for thelast two weeks, it had been two
(11:01):
weeks.
And I said, for two weeks,everyone has been on pins and
needles, everyone's been on edgebecause we've we thought someone
was stalking us.
And I and I should back up andsay, a few years prior, a couple
years before this, we had had agenuine stalker situation where
a guy, we found out about a guythat had put pictures of my
(11:26):
family all over his apartment.
And it was really weird.
And this guy was like, OCD, thissomething like out of a movie.
But he had pictures of my wife,my kids.
I don't think he had anypictures of me.
It was just my wife and kids.
And someone that uh went toschool with him, it was at a
university, was over at hishouse, and uh and he didn't know
(11:48):
they were coming.
They walked in, they're like,Why you got pictures of these
people or whatever?
And anyway, I don't want to gointo details there either,
because I don't want to messthis guy.
Uh it doesn't matter who thatguy was, but we had ended up
getting the police involved.
That was when I ended up gettinga handgun for my wife and had
her start carrying a handgunaround.
Um we were scared in thatsituation.
(12:12):
And because there was no crimecommitted, there was nothing
really to confront.
I did confront that dude andsaid, Hey man, why you got my
family's pictures all over yourhouse?
And I took a couple uh pastorswith me to confront him.
But anyway, so we had had asituation prior, so we're
already on pins and needles,we're on edge.
And that's why when people sayto me, like I had a couple staff
(12:34):
members this summer come up tome and they were joking, and
they and I was signing somebooks, and I had a couple girls
on my staff say, Oh, you'refamous, will you sign my book?
And I was like, Okay, first off,I'm not famous, but don't make
jokes about this.
If God's given us influence inpeople's lives, we should
recognize that for what it isand be thankful.
Like be legitimately gratefulfor that.
(12:56):
And you guys, you guys need tounderstand that being in the
public eye and being in asituation like I'm in, people
know who I am, they know who myfamily is.
That's why I'm pretty non-socialmedia, you know.
I don't I like it's a it's aweird situation to be in.
It just is.
And so, anyhow, I'm kind oframbling there, but but I don't
(13:19):
like to play around with thewhole, are you famous or that
like look, I want to use theplatform God's giving me to make
the most gospel impact that Ican make, but I ain't interested
in being famous, and I'm notinterested in building my brand
or anything like that.
But sometimes, man, when you'vegot a spotlight on you or you've
got a microphone or a camera infront of you, you end up in
(13:42):
weird situations.
And right now, this stuff withCharlie Kirk, man, it's got
everybody a little bit uh uhlike hyper aware of this, you
know, and it's like if you takea stand for something and you
speak out, you're gonna you'regonna draw attention.
And so anyhow, I'm I was I'vealways been a little bit just
like hyper aware of this stuff.
(14:03):
And so we had just come throughthat situation I was talking
about a couple years before.
So now we're in this othersituation, and I said, Look, I
ain't I ain't on a wedge hunthere, but you can't come back to
Snowbird because people thereare afraid of you.
They don't know who you are,they're afraid.
You've put everybody in kind ofa heightened sense of alert
(14:25):
awareness, and man, what you didis wrong, and the consequences
to your actions are you're notwelcome back at Snowbird.
Well, this guy, he said he wassorry, he apologized.
You go back to the last episode.
He was repentant, he asked forforgiveness, and I said, You are
forgiven.
I forgive you.
And I don't remember if I did itin that conversation.
(14:46):
I think it was in thatconversation.
Really wanted to make amends,and again, I trusted his youth
pastor.
And what I said to him is, Isaid, I'm willing to meet with
you, I'm willing to meet withyou monthly.
And and invest in youpersonally.
And that might mean thatoccasionally I drive, he lived
about maybe three hours away,three or four hours away from
(15:08):
us.
I was like, once a month, I'lldrive somewhere, meet you at a
Starbucks, and we'll sit down,and man, we'll talk about godly
biblical manhood and and andI'll invest in you, but you
cannot come back to SnowbirdWilderness Outfitters.
You're not welcome on ourproperty.
I've got to make sure my familyknows that I'm not just gonna,
because I I had told my family,hey, someone wants to do harm
(15:31):
potentially to one of the girls.
We've got to be vigilant.
And once we identified the guy,they knew who he was.
I couldn't go back to them andsay, oh, he said he's sorry,
it's okay, now he can come toSnowbird.
My family, man, it it wreakedterror with my family.
And so I said, Man, you'veburned that bridge.
You can't come to Snowbird.
(15:51):
But we can we can have arelationship, and your youth
pastor is an amazing brother whowill disciple you, and me and
him can work together and let'sbuild this thing, you know.
And and so the consequenceslingered even though forgiveness
was extended, you know.
And so sometime later he wastrying to come back to camp.
He was like, you know, some timehas passed.
(16:13):
Are we good?
And I was like, no, man, youcan't come back.
And so then his dad and his momboth sent me just really ugly.
The mom sent me a really uglyemail, and the dad left me a
really ugly voicemail.
And I get, man, I get it.
They're they're nice people, Ithink, probably.
They probably love the Lord, andthey're just trying to take up
for their boy.
(16:34):
But sorry, you threaten mydaughter, you don't get to come
around me.
Like, even if you say I'm sorry,will you forgive me?
And we reconcile that, that'sfine.
There are consequences thatsometimes linger.
The consequences of that youngman's actions were you ain't
coming around my family, man.
You're not coming around myfamily.
You crossed a line that that inthe in the code of manhood, you
(16:56):
crossed a line that this is agreat opportunity for you to
learn a lesson.
And that lesson is there'scertain lines you cross you
don't get to come back fromcompletely.
And that that's not me justbeing a jerk.
It's just for me, the message tomy sons and daughters needed to
be I've got you, I will protectyou.
Nothing in this planet is morevaluable to me than you.
(17:19):
And so that was that was that.
That is that's just how it is,okay?
So I cannot have my my familydoubting me as a provider,
protector, and shepherd.
And so that young man, while hewhile I have some responsibility
in his life, his dad and pastorhave the greater responsibility,
(17:40):
and I trust the pastor, andhopefully could trust the dad.
So, y'all take care of that,we'll take care of this.
I've told him I'll meet with himand invest in him, and we can
build a friendship, but youcan't come to Snowbird.
So when the dad sent me thegrumpy text message, when uh,
you know, sometime later theyasked if he he asked if he could
come back.
This young man was he he hadgotten a little older, he's up
(18:01):
into his 20s.
He's like, Can I come back toSnowbird?
I said, No.
If you want to come to a men'sconference, I said, No, you
can't, man.
You can't come.
Sorry.
And so, and I will say I soughtcounsel on this.
This was the men and leadershipat Snowbird agreed on this.
And uh so the dad, man, he heripped me in this, and then the
(18:23):
mom ripped me and said, You callyourself a Christian, which I I
hate it when somebody uses thatphrase.
You call yourself a Christian.
No, I don't call myself aChristian.
Jesus calls me a Christian.
Jesus has called me by name,Jesus has declared me righteous,
Jesus has washed me in hisblood, Jesus has made me his
(18:43):
own.
I'm no longer a slave to sin.
I'm a child of God and a slaveto righteousness.
I don't call myself nothing.
I just accept what Jesus hasdeclared about me.
So that's what that's who I am.
And so she said, you callyourself a Christian, but you
don't know how to extend graceto somebody.
The dad said the same thing.
(19:04):
I said, and I responded onetime, and then Little said,
don't respond anymore.
And my my response was, myresponse was, the grace is that
I didn't do anything to thisyoung man.
I didn't attack him, you know,or get him arrested or beat him
up or, you know, like legallycome after you.
Like the grace is that I said Iforgive you.
(19:26):
We can build a relationship, wecan move forward.
We're not talking about grace,we're talking about sometimes
there's consequences thatlinger.
And so I bring that up to say,man, don't have such a cheap
view of grace that you think,well, you said you you asked for
forgiven, I asked forforgiveness, so you gotta
forgive me, and we gotta actlike nothing ever happened.
(19:47):
No, sometimes things happen thatwe can't completely and entirely
move on from.
So I want to give you threeexamples from scripture um that
support this.
Um, with with three differentoutcomes.
The first one is think aboutMoses.
I'm gonna give you two briefstories and then one longer
biblical story, and that's howwe'll uh that's that's how we'll
(20:08):
end this episode.
So Moses was God's man.
The Bible said God talked withMoses the way two friends talked
to each other.
Man, they were close.
They had a special relationship,a very special bond.
Moses was the man of God.
But Moses sinned against theLord, and as a result, the
(20:29):
consequences that Moses facedwere he was not allowed to go
into the promised land.
God forgave Moses, God restoredMoses to relationship, God
reconciled Moses to himself, andthen for 40 years, Moses had to
live with the consequences ofhis actions.
And at the end of that 40 years,Moses was taken home to be with
(20:51):
the Lord, never having steppedfoot in the promised land.
But God's grace was biggerbecause you know what the
greater, wonderful picture is athousand years later, or
whatever, 1500 years later,whenever it was, at the Mount of
Transfiguration, Peter gets tosee, Peter would later report in
his epistle, I was with the Lordon the mountain, and I saw his
(21:14):
glory revealed.
When Christ was transfigured onthe mountain, Moses was there
with him.
And so Moses did enter thepromised land, but it was just
way different, and it was waylater, and it was after he was
glorified, and he entered thepromised land to meet with Jesus
on the night before his arrestand crucifixion.
(21:34):
And so God doesn't always endthe story, write the end of the
story the way that we wouldwrite it.
And but there's consequencesthat sometimes linger.
Moses is an example of that.
God was gracious to Moses.
He forgave Moses, he continuedto use Moses, he spoke so kindly
of Moses.
He brought Moses with him intothe transfiguration.
(21:57):
But there were aspects of Moses'actions and decisions that the
consequences lingered.
Second story.
This one's a little uh give alittle more comment on this.
In the life of David, if youpick up in 2 Samuel, along about
2 Samuel, I think about chapter9, 8, 9, somewhere right in
(22:17):
there.
King David shows kindness toSaul's son, Mephibosheth.
And there's this really coolpicture where he brings him into
his home, sits him at his table,and it's a and it's a beautiful
picture of a man who is alignedwith the heart and grace of God.
Uh this was the grandson of aking who David, everybody
(22:41):
expected David would want tokill this young man, but he
doesn't.
He restores the relationshipbetween the two houses and
brings this young manMephibosheth into his home.
The very next chapter showsIsrael going to war.
And in that war, Israel fightssome pretty intense enemies.
(23:01):
And it's a crazy story, and yousee the, you see just the
courage and leadership and valorof Joab and his men, and it's I
mean, it's an intense picture ofbattle.
The next chapter begins withDavid being at home the
following spring.
It says, in the spring of theyear, when kings go off to war,
(23:23):
David is at home.
And David's at home, and whatDavid does is while he's at
home, he commits adultery withBathsheba.
You might be familiar with thatstory.
Bathsheba is the wife to one ofDavid's uh elite operators.
Like there's this group of tierone guys, think of DevGrew,
(23:43):
think of, you know, SEAL Team 6,think of think of that, think of
DevGrew, think of Delta, um, oreven think of the like tier two
units, like the Army Rangers orsomething like that.
Um, or think of, you know, uhthat special operations world.
This guy that operates in thatworld, he was one of David's
mighty men.
(24:04):
His name is Uriah.
Uriah had been with David for along time, man.
They had fought a lot of warstogether.
At this point, David's about myage.
He's in his 50s.
David had been with Uriah sinceDavid was in his 20s, y'all.
That's if I now go check me onthis work, but I'm pretty sure
Uriah came to David in the caveup in the cave at Adullum when
David was on the run from Saul,which would have been when David
(24:27):
was, he might have been 30.
He might have been 30 years old,20s, maybe 30.
So Uriah's been with David forat least 20 years.
And Uriah's married to thisgirl.
Her name's Bathsheba, andapparently apparently she's just
beautiful.
And David had like a bunch ofwives and concubines.
David was a super immoral dude.
Uh super immoral.
He was a man, he was a it'scrazy because you you get hope
(24:50):
from a guy like David because itsays he's a man after God's own
heart.
Just like with Moses, it sayshe, you know, he walked with God
and talked with God as a manspeaks with a friend.
We learn from these men thatthey're not flawless.
They're like us.
We identify with them in theirweaknesses.
But David was not a good person,man.
He was like sleeping around, andhe had these sex slaves.
(25:12):
They call them concubines, butthey're just sexually trafficked
women, you know?
And it's crazy because he's thepsalmist, you know, and it and
and you just realize how brokenhumanity can be.
And so David, he he branchesout, man.
He's like, I'm gonna, I'm gonnahave sex with Bathsheba.
With my my guy Uriah, my man, mydog, we've been to war together.
(25:34):
We fought many battles together,we've been on many operations
together.
He had fought alongside of Uriahso much, they're so close.
And David, while Uriah's offfighting David's battles, David
goes and has sex with Uriah'swife.
I don't know the nature of it.
I don't know if she didn't havea say-so in the matter because
he's the king.
I don't know if she seduced him.
(25:54):
I don't know.
We don't know.
It doesn't give us thosedetails.
I've heard guys speculate inevery kind of way.
Some guys say, oh, she's on theroof naked, she knew he was
watching.
Other guys say, heck no, man.
David was, she was just in theprivacy of her home, but because
of his vantage point, nobody wasprivate from the king.
I've heard it told both ways.
I don't know.
We're not told.
I just know she was complicit tohave sex with him, either
(26:19):
forcibly or willingly.
That part doesn't really matter,I don't think, to the s to the
to the narrative or the story.
David committed adultery, andthen this is where the story
gets so dark.
Okay, so dark.
David gets Uriah to come homefrom the battle.
And he sends for Uriah.
Uriah comes home, he tries toget Uriah to go have sex with
(26:41):
his own wife.
That way he can say, Oh, she'spregnant.
Oh, oh, oh, I'm sorry.
She sends and tells David, Hey,I'm pregnant.
You got me pregnant.
So David sends for her husband,brings him home, tells the
husband, go have sex with yourwife, go spend the night at
home.
I just need a report from thebattle.
Thanks for coming and telling menow go have sex with your wife.
And then Uriah's like, I'm notgonna do that.
(27:01):
My men are in battle.
I need to be in battle.
That should have been themindset David had, but it
wasn't.
It's the mindset Uriah hadbecause he's the more honorable
man.
And so Uriah, he practices notjust fidelity to his wife, he
practices fidelity to the Lordbecause he felt like God's call
for his life was to be awarrior, to be, to be in, in
(27:22):
military service, to be on thisoperation.
And so he's like, no, I need togo back to my men.
And so he refuses.
And so, and David even gets himdrunk.
David has him get like he getshim drunk, thinking, okay, his
discretion will be off, thenhe'll sleep with his wife, and
he won't do it.
Your eye goes back to battle.
David then, listen, y'all.
(27:43):
David has a group of men sent ona suicide mission and has them
all wiped out.
So imagine a team of dev growoperators or a Delta Force unit.
Or imagine uh, imagine a SEALteam, like one team, a uh like a
fire team of Marines, whatever,like a group of guys, and you
(28:06):
have the entire rest of thefighting force isolate those
guys and then abandon them.
That's what David did.
He had, and Joab, his mainofficer, the captain of his
guard, the head guy, he's he'sthe one that like carries out
the order.
So it's a dark story, man.
David has a group of guysmurdered, essentially.
(28:29):
This guy named Uriah.
David has him killed, but tomake it not look so obvious, he
has a bunch of other guyskilled, all guys who are his
close friends, companions,partners, guys he's fought with,
fought alongside of.
They're his, they're like histier one guys.
He has them all killed, sendsthem on a suicide mission.
That way, Uriah doesn't knowhe's dead.
(28:53):
David can quote unquote comfortBathsheba, and then she can have
a baby.
Well, everybody figures it out,you know, obviously.
And y'all, it's one of thedarkest stories in the Bible to
me.
Like to think of killing a groupof my buddies like that, that's
just dark.
But then to think that this dudekilled a group of his closest
friends because he had had sexwith one of their wives, and
(29:14):
then he wanted to cover it allup.
It's just dark.
And so God confronts David overhis sin, and David's tore up
about it.
We see true repentance.
If you go read Psalm 51, you seetrue repentance in David's heart
over this.
He says, Against you, Lord,against you and you only have I
sinned and done what is evil inyour sight, that you may be
(29:35):
proved just when you speak andjustified when you judge.
So he's like, God is just, hisjudgment is right, whatever I
like, I'll receive from the Lordwhatever he gives me because I
deserve it.
And uh, but he also pleads toGod for mercy in that Psalm,
Psalm 51.
It's a psalm of repentance,asking God for mercy.
He's like, Um, have mercy on me,O Lord, according to your
(29:56):
unfailing love, according toyour mercy.
Mercy and your kindness, blotout my transgression.
I know my sin.
It's always before me.
And so he he he he asks his heasks of the Lord.
He asks of the Lord, purge mewith hyssop, wash me, and I'll
be white as snow.
(30:18):
He's asking God to cleanse him.
He sees his sin and he repents.
And so go back to what we talkedabout last week.
He is repentant.
He is seeking restoredfellowship with God.
But guess what?
He cannot be reconciled to Uriahbecause he killed him.
He can't be reconciled to thoseother dudes that he had killed.
(30:38):
It's a mess.
And so he gets forgiveness fromthe Lord.
He's reconciled to God.
But now there's going to be thelingering consequences of his
sin.
He's got a widow to take care ofbecause he killed her husband.
He got her pregnant.
The baby dies.
The baby dies.
And some people think it's God'shand of judgment, which that's
(30:59):
another conversation.
Like, because I don't want toget somebody screwed up
theologically and think that ifyou make mistakes, God's going
to kill your baby.
That is not the moral at anypoint in the story.
It's not how God judges.
But God is sovereign.
So God uh God brings judgment onDavid and He and He actually
says to him, Not only judgmentcoming on you, it's coming on
(31:21):
your entire house.
I forgive you.
You're restored, but the swordwill never depart from your
house.
There will be conflict in yourhome because of the way you've
chosen to live your life.
God forgave David.
God restored David.
God loved David.
God was with David.
But y'all, the rest of David'slife, literally the rest of his
(31:42):
life, was a train wreck.
And so what happens is his kidsstart, I mean, acting out.
One son named Amnon rapes ahalf-sister named Tamar, because
David had baby mamas.
He had kids by a bunch of babymamas.
So he had all these halfsiblings.
So this dude, Amnon, rapes thisgirl, Tamar, who's his sister.
(32:05):
And then her brother Absalom,who's her full brother, they got
the same mama.
He he goes, it's a crazy story,man.
And then it gets out to herbrother Absalom.
Absalom takes her, puts heraway, and provides her with
protection, but it's a sad storybecause she's never allowed to
(32:27):
marry, I think.
If I remember the way the storygoes, if I remember reading it
right, she never gets to marry.
It's just a crazy story.
It's like, man, what a sadbecause that dude, Amnon, when
he rapes her, after he rapesher, it says he hates her.
Like he looks at her withdisdain.
He's like, you're just a pieceof trash.
It's awful.
And so her brother, her fullbrother, Absalom, he's like, all
(32:50):
right, all right, we'll we'lltake care of this.
Well, Absalom's a dog, man.
He's like, he's a fighter.
That dude's a dog.
He's not a good person, but hegot some dog in him.
He waits like two or three yearsand then sets up a meeting where
he ends up killing this brotherAmnon, kills him.
And so David freaks out aboutit, and then David sends Absalom
(33:16):
to live in like exile for thenext three years.
And then Absalom sends a messageto David and says, What the
heck, man?
I just took up for my sister.
What are you doing?
Am I gonna have to live out herein exile?
You know, like, and then David'slike, No, no, no, no, you come,
I'm sorry.
Like, come and be with me in mypalace.
And so they reunite.
(33:37):
It's been like three, no, I'mthinking it's been like five
years since David's seen his sonAbsalom.
They reunite, but then Davidtells Absalom, All right, all
right, you're back, you're home,you're living in the palace.
And then he doesn't talk to himanymore.
So Absalom ends up turning onDavid, and then there's this
civil war that breaks out.
Absalom gets killed by Joab, thesame guy that carried out the
(34:00):
mission to get Uriah killed.
It's just dark and broken.
And you go, Good Lord, you'rereading it and you're going,
this is a jacked-up story.
And then David gets old and doesa couple stupid things, and then
he gets old and he's so old thathe can't even get out of bed and
he dies.
And you go, wait a minute.
(34:21):
David's a man after God's ownheart?
Yes.
But the consequences of hisactions destroyed his family.
Y'all, every single week of mylife, I talk to teenagers whose
families have come apart andtheir lives are dysfunctional.
When people make decisions thataffect others, you can give
(34:41):
forgiveness for that, butsometimes the consequences just
linger.
Sometimes for a while, sometimesforever.
Forever.
A man cheats on his wife and sheleaves him and she remarries.
She might forgive him.
God forgives him.
He becomes repentant.
The consequences are he ruinedhis marriage and he can't be
(35:02):
married to her again, you know?
Something like that.
Somebody, somebody gets drunkand goes driving, they have a
wreck and they kill somebody orend up paralyzed.
Man, God can forgive them forthat, but the that doesn't bring
that dead person back, or thatdoesn't unparalyze them.
Now you got a quadruplegicwho's, you know, so damaged.
(35:24):
Um so so let's say, let's saythat the guy has a car wreck and
and ends up as a paraplegic in awheelchair, and he says, Lord,
forgive me for drinking anddriving.
I killed somebody and now I'm ina wheelchair.
And God says, I forgive you, Ilove you, I'll give you a
meaningful life, we'll make themost out of this, we'll work all
(35:45):
of this for my glory and foryour good.
And there can be a lot ofredeeming value that comes in
that guy's story, but thatdoesn't get him out of the
wheelchair in his life, and itdon't bring the dead person
back, you know.
Sometimes consequences linger.
So when that kid threatened myfamily and his parents said,
Where's the grace?
(36:05):
The grace is that I forgive him.
And that we can be brothers inChrist and we can forgive each
other and move on, but I'm notgonna let him round my
daughters.
I'm not gonna send that messageto them.
It's consequences to hisactions.
That ain't on me, that's on him.
He shouldn't have picked thatphone up and called my daughter
the things he called her andaccused her of the things he
accused her of and threatenedher in the way he threatened
(36:26):
her.
If he wouldn't have done that,we wouldn't be having this
conversation.
You know, by the way, the Davidstory, even after David dies,
the consequences linger becausethere's a civil war that breaks
out uh when his son Solomonascends the throne.
There's two boys, two of hisboys are kind of vying for
kingship and they end upfighting.
I mean, it's crazy.
It's crazy.
(36:47):
It goes on past his life.
You see that a lot too, whereone person's actions affect
multiple generations.
But anyway, the other story isthere's a scene in the New
Testament book of Acts wherethere's a missionary journey
that Paul's on.
He's traveling, and there's aguy named John Mark.
He's the guy that wrote theGospel of Mark.
(37:07):
And John Mark is one of Paul'sguys, but he's come onto the
team by way of um Barnabas.
Barnabas is John Mark's uncle,and Barnabas is Paul's uh
partner in ministry.
And so they go on this, and theywould always take young dudes
with them, and they're alwayslike discipling, mentoring, and
training up young dudes.
(37:28):
And so they take John Mark onthis missionary trip.
They're gonna be on the road formonths, maybe years, traveling
and preaching, and they're gonnago to hostile territories
through the wilderness.
At one point, Paul was like,it's so bad.
There were wild animals outthere that were trying to kill
us.
There were people that robbedus.
It was hard, man.
It was hard sled and it wasrough life ministry.
(37:50):
And that dude, John Mark, hequit and went home.
He's like, I'm out.
I didn't sign up for this.
It's too hard.
And he quit him.
He quit the team.
And so sometime later, he wantsto come back on the team.
And Paul's like, No, you're not,you're done, man.
You quit us in our hour of need.
You can't be on this team.
And Barnabas is like, what theheck, man?
Where's the grace?
Can't you forgive him?
(38:10):
I forgive him.
Paul's like, yeah, I forgivehim, but he's not gonna be on
our team.
And Paul doesn't let him back onthe team.
And so Barnabas is like, allright, I'm out.
And it says a sharp disagreementarose between them and they
parted ways.
And so Barnabas goes and takesJohn Mark, and then Paul he does
his own thing and they go indifferent directions.
And so you see the consequencesof one man's actions have
(38:33):
far-reaching effects.
Now, the cool thing to thatstory is Barnabas was faithful
to the Lord.
Paul was faithful to the Lord.
Barnabas trained up John Mark.
Uh, Paul, I'm pulling intoRonnie Mason's sporting goods
store here, where you can lookat guns, fishing supplies, and
buy dog food for your huntingdogs, is right here in Topton,
(38:55):
North Carolina, beside Andrews,a couple miles up the road from
my house.
A little piece of culture righthere.
Um, I'm gonna go in and see mybuddy Ronnie.
Ronnie's in his 70s.
He's a he's a mountain man, he'sa hillbilly.
Um, but anyhow, Silas went, solet me make sure I get all these
names right.
Paul started a new team.
He had Silas with himeventually, he had Luke with
(39:16):
him, he had uh Timothy, Titus,Barnabas went and took John
Mark, and everybody dideffective ministry.
And it's really cool.
At the end of 2 Timothy, yearslater, Paul says, send John John
Mark to me.
He's profitable for ministry.
That dude, he came around.
And so we see that and in theend, there was restored
(39:37):
fellowship and friendshipbetween those guys.
Um, and so sometimes theconsequences linger for a long
time, but then even thoseconsequences go away, which is
really cool.
And uh and I'll close with astory or two about that.
But but before I do that, let mejust say uh when you read 2
(39:57):
Timothy, Paul names severalpeople.
I read back through it thismorning thinking about this, and
he named some folks in positivelight, he named some folks in
neutral light, and he named somefolks in negative light.
So he says some negative thingsabout some guys in there.
He's like, you know, he talksabout Demas, and we did a whole
episode on Demas.
Demas is in love with thispresent world, he's abandoned
(40:20):
us.
And he talks about some guysthat are caught up, got caught
up in bickering, and I would, Iwould categorize them as people
that bicker over secondarydoctrine or or conspiracy
theorists that get caught up inpolitical stuff, or you know,
something like that.
Like they he talks about theseguys, and then he talks about
some other guys that uh are poin a positive light, but they're
(40:44):
just not with him.
He's like, man, I'm in 2Timothy, Paul's about to die.
Uh and he he's writing thisletter to Timothy, and he says,
you know, so-and-so has goneover here to do ministry,
so-and-so has gone over here todo ministry, so-and-so has
abandoned me.
Luke is here with me, but I needyou to send, and he says, I need
you to send John Mark, becausehe's become useful to me for
(41:05):
ministry.
So you've got this distinctionthat among even other effective
ministers, the relationship hasbeen restored to the point that
he wants him there.
John John Mark is now needed andwanted, even though Paul had had
separated from him earlier.
And so sometimes theconsequences linger for a long
(41:26):
time, and then eventually, eventhose consequences go away.
But that sometimes that's onGod's timeline, not on mine.
And so with David all the way tothe end of his life, and even
into the next generation, theconsequences linger.
With John Mark, the consequenceslast a long time, and eventually
time heals those wounds, andJohn Mark has a chance to prove
(41:47):
himself and he does it.
Uh with Moses, the consequenceslinger all the way to the end of
his life, and then we see thisreally cool picture of
restoration when he appears withJesus in the Mount of
Transfiguration.
And so in our lives, there maybe times where there's
consequences.
You know, that story I told atthe beginning, maybe one day
there'll be uh some restoredfellowship uh or restore I don't
(42:12):
know.
I don't know.
I don't know what God's gonnado.
But I'm op my heart will alwaysbe open to it, but then there's
certain things now I have a deepconviction that I will not, you
know, that I won't compromise tojust to just to try to make
things more comfortable foreverybody, if that makes sense.
And then I think uh I I canthink of stories, I think of one
(42:35):
story where a guy, again, I'mgonna be cryptic, and I said I
wanted to close with a story ortwo.
At least tell one.
There was a guy that had come tome several years ago and he
said, Hey man, I want to do whatwe need to do to make amends and
put things right.
This is a different story.
(42:56):
And that was because a few yearsprior to that, there had been
some conflict that had hadturned into broken fellowship
between some believers.
At the middle of that conflictwas a lady that was causing a
lot of conflict.
Like she had created a lot ofdissension within a couple of
(43:17):
ministries, two or threeministries, and Snowbird was one
of them, and Red Oak was one ofthem, and a couple of churches,
and and she had created a lot ofdivision and strife and
conflict.
And we there was a point wherewe had to agree to disagree with
some people and say, hey, let'sgo our separate ways.
Some of those people eventuallycame back around and said, Hey,
(43:41):
what do we got to do to restorefellowship?
And it was really cool.
We sat down and and and workedthrough things together and were
able to restore fellowship.
So sometimes it it takes sometime, and the main thing is
this.
Here's what I want to end with.
You cannot live with a seed ofbitterness, and you cannot live
(44:01):
with the with the attitude ofvengeance.
You're like when you have brokenfellowship, or there's we agree
to disagree, and things lingerand we gotta go our separate
ways, and it's hard toreconcile.
You cannot let bitternesscontrol you.
So when I think about thesituations in my life where
there's long-term brokenfellowship, and I think, man,
(44:24):
I'm we're supposed to have aministry of reconciliation.
Why can't we work this out?
Here's what I'll say (44:28):
my personal battle is it becomes
not a battle against this otherperson.
Like the story I told about theyoung man that caused a lot of
trauma for my family, emotionaland psychological.
I hate to use the word trauma.
I guess thrown around nowadays,but he attacked my family.
What I had to do is make sure myheart was right and I don't have
(44:49):
any bitterness towards him orhis parents.
It's just a matter of fact.
We can't, you can't be here onthis facility.
You know, that that that'sthat's the battle that we gotta
fight.
I'm not gonna be bitter, I'm notgonna be mad at this person.
Um So I, you know, I think withPaul, that was probably his
struggle with John Mark.
I I don't want to be bitter.
(45:10):
I'm not mad at him, I don't hatehim, but he can't be on my team.
That takes some discretion, somediscernment, some wisdom, and
some humility.
And I think John Mark had thosethings eventually.
He grew into those things, and Ithink Paul fought for those
things too.
And then we see conflict withPaul and other people.
Paul and Peter have conflict.
You know, Paul says, Man, I hadto confront Peter to his face in
(45:31):
front of people.
So conflict is part of theChristian experience.
It's part of how the body ofChrist works.
We need to do it well.
We need to strive to extendforgiveness.
It takes two for peace and onefor war.
I can wage war on somebody else,but in order for there to be
peace between me and anotherperson, we gotta both come to
the table.
Reconciliation requires twopeople.
(45:52):
Forgiveness and repentancerequire one.
You put it all together, you getreconciliation.
But I can strive to live atpeace with all people, but I can
also agree to disagree at times.
What I cannot do is allowbitterness to control me.
I cannot have a the Lord says inthe book of Romans, vengeance is
mine.
And so if there's somethingthat's been done against you.
(46:14):
Now this gets into a whole othercategory.
And we mentioned this in thefirst in the last episode.
But, you know, you were wrongedby someone who legitimately
harmed you.
Leave that vengeance to theLord.
Don't, don't, not only don't becontrolled by bitterness, but
don't be controlled and consumedby a desire for vengeance.
(46:35):
Release that into the hands ofGod and trust him with it.
And so don't let bitternesscontrol you and strive to live
at peace.
And know that sometimes you mayhave to live with extend
extending and extend uhextensive or extending um
consequences to to actions andbehaviors.
And just know the Lord's theLord's got that.
(46:55):
He's he's good with that.
He he can control it as long asyour heart is right before him.
I hope that you find meaning inthis episode, in both of these
episodes, that they're helpful.
The next couple episodes we'llbe turning back to the interview
style.
We got some, like I said, I'mexcited about some conversations
we're having.
Um even today, as this episodedrops, we are interviewing uh a
(47:20):
person that I'm real excited fory'all to hear from, a missionary
who faced death and umpersecution in the most real
way, uh, death of familymembers, uh, persecution,
martyrdom, and has an incredibleand dynamic testimony, and I'm
excited and is a very dear andclose friend to this ministry
and to my family.
(47:41):
Excited for y'all to hear that.
And uh yeah, we got a goodlineup ahead of us.
Next week we'll be meeting witha young lady who's uh who's in
that episode will be a few weeksout, but who has a dynamic
testimony of God's grace in herlife.
And she also happens to be uhpart of the turning point
organization, so uh we scheduledthis before the Charlie Kirk
(48:01):
murder, but it'll be interestingto get her take on some of that
as well.
But that's not why we'rebringing her on.
We're bringing her on to to hearher story, which is phenomenal.
She's a kid that grew up comingto SWO, coming to Snowbird, and
um anyway, God's done some coolstuff in her life, some been
through some amazingdifficulties and has come out
just faithfully following Jesus.
(48:23):
And I'm excited for you to hearfrom her.
Anyhow, um thank you guys, allof you.
Um one personal announcement, Iwill say, my son Tucker Holloway
is in the transfer portal.
So um, those of you that keep upwith with his football, he you
will not see him in the boxscore at Virginia Tech because
he's not he's not playing therest of the season.
(48:43):
He'll take a red shirt.
Uh he's in the portal and he'lltransfer somewhere.
So this will be a fun journey.
We'll see how where he ends up.
I'm excited to see what God hasfor him in this next chapter.
But I would ask that you prayfor him.
I would also ask that youcontinue to pray for our
missionaries and specifically mydaughter and granddaughter and
son-in-law, that God wouldcontinue to give them favor and
the four ladies from Snowbirdthat are there serving with him,
(49:06):
just trusting the Lord to doawesome things in this season of
ministry.
And then here, lastly, here atSnowbird, we just had our men's
conference uh two weekends ago.
It was awesome, incredible.
We focused on penalsubstitutionary atonement.
We we mentioned that in aprevious episode.
We had, I don't know, about 500men in-house.
It was awesome.
The Lord did awesome things,incredible things, and uh really
(49:30):
enjoyed the weekend.
Great conversations.
God moved.
It was wonderful.
We've got three fall retreatscoming up back to back to back,
boom, boom, boom, the next threeweekends, followed by our fall
marriage conference.
And uh so lots going on atSnowbird, and we're excited
about what God's doing.
And so just ask you to pray forthe ministry here.
(49:50):
And if you've never been here,come and be a part of it.
Come attend, get on get on thewebsite, uh swoutfitters.com or
download the app and and uh seewhat we've got coming up,
something that maybe you'd liketo attend, reach out, holler at
us.
And if nothing else, just comeup here, we'll give you a tour,
we'll show you around the place,and uh we'll have a good time.
It'll be awesome.
(50:12):
Thank y'all for listening to NoSanity Required, and we'll see
you next week.
SPEAKER_00 (50:16):
Thanks for listening to No Sanity Required.
Please take a moment tosubscribe and leave a rating.
It really helps.
Visit us at swooutfitters.com tosee all of our programming and
resources.
And we'll see you next week onNo Sanity Required.
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