The Courage to Encourage | Interview with Brooke Lovingood

What does it really mean to encourage someone in a world that often tears people down? In this episode, Brooke Lovingood and Brody Holloway dive into the heart of biblical encouragement—showing that it’s more than just being nice or offering flattery. True encouragement means recognizing what God is doing in someone’s life and helping them keep going.

They explore why encouragement doesn’t always come naturally, how insecurities and fear hold us back, and how simple, intentional words can breathe life into others. From leadership and ministry to marriage and parenting, Brody and Brooke share practical ways to identify gifts in others and help them grow.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I am on my way to Athens, georgia, actually going
to Watkinsville which is alittle bit outside of Athens
it's all kind of the same area,but heading down to.
We're going to have aconversation in this episode
with Brooke Lovingood.
Brooke's been on here before.
She's been on NSR before.

(00:20):
She's not a stranger and whenshe was on NSR we had incredible
feedback.
She's also very involved atSnowbird.
She's spoken extensivelymultiple times at our Respond
Women's Conference and she'sjust a really good friend to
this ministry and to Little andI and we've known her since she

(00:42):
was in seventh grade, watchedher grow up.
She's one of those really cool,no sanity stories God using the
ministry of Snowbird to impactsomeone who then has gone far
beyond what we could ever ask orimagine or hope for.
The Lord's using her in awesomeways.
She's served at Snowbird andshe's now in full-time ministry,

(01:06):
has been for several years butstill very involved at SWO.
So anyway, I'm excited.
I'm in the truck driving,thought I'd go ahead and record
the intro on the drive.
So it's about a three-hour drivefrom Snowbird down from Andrews
to Athens and I've had a lot oftime to think and pray and

(01:26):
reflect.
I listened to some sermons,listened to some, some really
cool scriptures, some passagesof scripture I'm going to be
teaching tonight, but in themeantime, before, before that, I
want to sit down with Brooke.
When I get there, if Iunderstand, she's waiting on me
with the fresh hot cup of coffeeand we're going to plug up the

(01:47):
podcaster and we're going todive in.
We're going to be talking inthis episode about encouragement
.
Brooke is an encourager and Iwant to be an encourager and I
want Snowbird to be a ministrywhere people are encouraged, and
that certainly has been a goaland, I think, something that has
become a reality, and so,anyway, it'll be a fun
conversation.
I've been looking forward tothis.
We've been planning it for overa month now.

(02:09):
So with that, I want to welcomeyou to no Sanity Required and
my conversation with BrookeLovingood.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Welcome to no Sanity Required from the Ministry of
Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters apodcast about the Bible culture
and stories from around theglobe.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Okay, right before the intro I said that
Watkinsville is basically Athens, but I just left Athens and
drove through a little stretchof the country I think part of
that like forestry oragriculture department or
something for UGA and it isbeautiful.
I've been through here beforeand I forgot about that little
stretch of road.
Man, it's beautiful.
Now I'm just ready for deerseason, it's almost archery

(03:02):
season and I'm driving throughhere and I'm telling you, man,
this is beautiful.
But anyway, I'm coming intoWatkinsville now, which is
actually just outside of Athens.
I was thinking that it was kindof the same town, but it is not
.
So anyway, really pretty areaand I'm pulling into First

(03:23):
Baptist Church of Watkinsville,Georgia, Going to get unloaded
here and dive into thisconversation with Brooke on
encouragement.
I'm excited about that, sowe're good to just start.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
We can just start rolling.
Okay, you okay for me to justkick it off.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah.
So what we're going to do here,I think, is our listeners will
probably remember about a yearago, John Rouleau came on here
and interviewed me and peopleloved it, so I love this idea.
This is Brooke's idea, um, andI'm excited about it.
So yeah, let's just roll.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Okay.
So when I was thinking aboutthis and we had talked about me
coming on podcast a few timesand just a topic that kept
coming to mind, which I did atalk on this a few weeks ago and
I thought the moment I did it,I was like this is, brody, and
maybe it's something about youthat maybe listeners who haven't

(04:16):
been up close in your life orpeople have just come to
Snowbird, heard you teach butnot necessarily really know you
wouldn't assume about you and Ijoke with you that you have this
like whole other side to you.
That wouldn't be what peoplewould think right off the bat.
This is something about youthat I have admired from the
time I worked at Snowbird as acollege kid and it's something

(04:37):
that I think has been a highvalue in my life, just in my own
world.
My dad was really, really goodat this and that's being an
encourager and someone thatseeks to like call out in other
people what you see God doing inthem, through them, and it's

(04:58):
really a primary way you lead.
And so I would love to justhave a conversation around this,
because I think being anencourager, receiving
encouragement, being someonethat lives their life looking
around other people, seekingways to build them up, to edify,
to speak life into them, issomething that's very like

(05:20):
underrated in the church, andit's just something we don't
really talk about, because Ithink there can be some
confusion around what genuine,godly, biblical encouragement is
.
Like.
What do we mean by that?
So I would love to just hearyour thoughts on that question.
Like what, when you're anencourager?
What does that mean, though?

(05:40):
What?
What do you think and why is itimportant to understand what
encouragement means when it whenit's in the context of the
Christian life?

Speaker 1 (05:49):
Um, I do think a lot of people.
You said something.
I have always tried to be superaccessible and I think there's
this uh, I think there's a sortof a stigma that goes with
people that are ministry leadersand it's probably earned where
they're not really approachableor relationally attainable, and

(06:14):
I've tried to make sure that'snot who I am and how I do things
.
So on a normal day, like anormal day in the summer, I'll
spend as much time inconversation with a 17-year-old
element student or a 13-year-oldgroup of middle school boys at
Snack Shack as I will maybe witha pastor or someone like you

(06:38):
that has a longstandingrelationship, just being
accessible.
So I think part of being anencourager if you're in
leadership is being accessible.
um that's so good and I do tellpeople be patient.
Like if you say, hey, can wetalk, okay, why don't you tell
me what we need to talk about?
And then just be patient withme getting making it happen,

(07:01):
we'll make it happen.
It's urgent.
If there's no urgency to it,then I won't, then maybe it's
next Thursday.
But if it's like, oh no, no, no, we got to talk and I'll drop
what I'm doing, so I think beingaccessible, I think, um,
another thing about being anencourager is just being
positive.

(07:22):
You know this is a core value atSnowbird to be positive.
And I cannot stand a whining,murmuring attitude.
I can't stand for people tofeel sorry for themselves.
I can't stand to be aroundpeople that are negative.
So I think a lot of being anencourager is not like saying

(07:44):
cringy catch phrases Like I'mlike, like, like I'm your
cheerleader, like I'm spurringyou on.
You know, it's just being apositive friend, like a positive
interaction, like if you'reinteracting with me, I want it
to be positive and uplifting andit's not something that needs
to be forced, it's somethingthat should be from the overflow

(08:04):
of this person has been withthe Lord.
If this person spends time withthe Lord, they're going to be
positive.
You know it's going to bejoyful going to be positive.
So I think being positive is abig part of being an encourager.
And then for me, you know to toanswer the part of the question
about seeing in other people, Ithink one mark of a good leader

(08:28):
is identifying what giftingspeople have that God's entrusted
you with leading identifyingthose giftings and then and then
cultivating fruit in thatperson's life, helping them
learn to cultivate that gifting.
So giving them opportunities tofail, giving them opportunities
to learn, giving themopportunities to succeed.

(08:49):
I think about somebody like oneof the young guys that we've
got slated to teach this fall atdifferent snowbird events.
We've got a few guys and galsthat we're using and kind of our
next generation of teachers andletting them do it and being
okay with them making somemistakes and knowing that maybe
someone could have done it quoteunquote better, but none that's

(09:11):
using teaching as an example.
But whatever the uh, whatever aperson's giftings are, seeing
those giftings and part of beingan encourager is helping them
put those giftings into practice.
You know whether that's somebodythat you know?
We got a guy named Mike thatworks at SWO.
That is probably the mostbehind the scenes guy.

(09:33):
He's not a dynamic personality.
You're not going to see himmuch on stage occasionally or
like out in front of people, butin a small group.
He's six, five so, and he'sathletic, so kids are drawn to
him.
But behind the scenes that dudeworks.
I'd call him at five in themorning, 11 o'clock at night.
Him and his wife would dropwhat they're doing or get out of

(09:53):
bed or whatever and just jumpin and go.
I don't encourage that dude.
How do you encourage a guy likethat?
Well, he's wired that way.
You encourage him by using himand then appreciating him for it
and like he needs to buy, heneeds to buy in, he needs to, he
needs to put his hand on one ofthe paddles that we're rowing
this thing forward, you know,and so figuring out where people
can utilize the gifts God'sgiven them.

(10:15):
In the context of now I'manswering this all in the
context of snowbird.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
Right.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
So, in the context of snowbird, trying to figure out
how's this person gifted,where's this person going to be
most fruitful and where are theygoing to have life-giving
experiences?
Like for Mike, I want to figureout what is life-giving for him
.
For one person working inhospitality and guest services
and cleaning and wiping stuffdown, that's life-giving,

(10:41):
because they have a servant'sheart.
And stuff down, that's lifegiving because they enjoy, they
have a servant heart, servant'sheart.
And then one person that iscalled to preach or teach or
lead in that capacity.
I want to give them thoseopportunities because they they
draw from that.
You know this.
Like how life giving that isbecause God's gifted you and
wired you that way.
So you've got to figure outpeople's giftings and then, um,

(11:01):
figure out ways to let themexperience the joy of the Lord.
You remember that there's thatguy that his name was Eric
little or Lytle Lydell the.
There was a book and a movieyears ago called chariots of
fire.
This guy was a, uh, distancerunner for the British Olympic
team and he made headlinesbecause he wouldn't run on.

(11:25):
This was the 1930s.
He wouldn't run on Sundaysbecause he was a believer and he
had a conviction against that.
But there was a quote wheresomebody asked him why do you
keep running?
He said because when I run Ifeel the pleasure of God.
Well, he's recognizing thegifting God's given him.
Tuck told me I heard Tuck.
He didn't tell me.
I heard Tuck in a podcast.

(11:45):
He was being interviewed by aguy from Duke and the guy said
what's the biggest game you'remost excited about going into
this season?
And Tuck said Mercedes-BenzStadium opening the Aflac
kickoff.
We're playing South Carolina.
And the guy said why is that?
Is it because South Carolina'scoach Beamer?
Why is that?
Is it because because SouthCarolina's coach Beamer is the

(12:06):
son to the legendary Virginiatech coach.
He said is it because it'sBeamer?
The coach said no, it's becausefive years ago I was there for
a passion conference, worshipingthe Lord, and I had this
thought what if I got to worshipthe Lord by playing football,
using the gifts he's given me inthis same stadium?
That would be crazy.
And he said now it's scary tohappen.
It's like this full circlemoment.

(12:31):
And he talked about and we'vetalked about this a lot
Colossians three, uh, 17 and 23talk about whatever you do, do
it hardly as under the Lord, youknow.
Or when Paul's writing theCorinthians and he says whatever
you do, whether you eat ordrink, whatever you do at all,
the glory of God, people, peopleneed to be encouraged to
exercise and use the gifts thatthey've been given.
If they're doing that, theencouragement comes from the
Lord and from the fact thatyou're cheering them on and

(12:53):
pulling for them and helpingmove them along.
It's not this cringy.
Let me slap everybody on theback and give them a big, toothy
grin and say something corny.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
It's not flattery.
It's not flattery.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
It's not flattery.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
And what you're calling out in people, good or
bad, it's like what they'regoing to step into more.
You know, I mean, that's such apart of my story with you you
calling out in me things that Iwas good at and I was like whoa,
I didn't even know that andthen, okay, I'm going to, I'm
going to do that some more, thenI'm going to step into that

(13:26):
more and I think, specificallyas a leader, but as a mom, a dad
, a spouse, you have theopportunity to call things out
that you're seeing and andliterally it can shape and mold
a person to be more who God hasdesigned them to be, and you're
really good at that.
So I love that.
The end of Tyler and Mai's vowson our wedding day the line we

(13:52):
said right at the end was that Iwould play a part in you.
So, like I'm saying this toTyler, I would play a part in
you hearing well done, good andfaithful servant, and he said
that to me and that has stuckwith me so much.
But even in the Christian life,like I just want to interact

(14:12):
with people and play a part inhelping them get to Jesus
faithfully whether that'steaching from a sage Sure, but I
just want that in my dailyconversations, like and I think
encouragement is such a key tothat, not flattery, not surface
level, not an ego boost.
I'm talking like I see Godworking in this person.

(14:33):
I'm calling that out.
So many other things arepushing back against them.
Maybe they feel insecurity,doubt, weirdness, shame,
awkwardness around that.
But I want to be the voice thatsteps in and says keep, keep
going.
That's what you're doing thatreally well.
You know, I think of those vowsa lot.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
And sometimes it is a verbal affirmation of saying to
somebody hey man, like I texteduh, the other day I texted a
guy something encouraging and hesaid his.
His response was very brief,but it was something like you
have no idea how much I need toread this right now.

(15:10):
So I would encourage people thatone simple way to be an
encourager that doesn't comeacross as like disingenuous or
insincere is to write a text,send a text to somebody, make a
list of people that you want toencourage and just send them a
brief text.
Say I'm thankful for you,you've done this to me, I'm

(15:31):
thankful for you, I'mappreciative.
Basically, keep going, keepgoing.
You never know what thatthere's a very prominent worship
guy.
I don't want to say his name,but people would know his name.
But, um, people would know hisname if I said it and we worked
a few of it back when I did alot of itinerant stuff or

(15:51):
speaking at conferences, which Idon't do a lot of that anymore.
I'm really thankful.
I like being in the mountains.
You know, um, I don't like togo into big arenas and um but
that's.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
Is it because you're old?

Speaker 1 (16:06):
um, maybe no, I don't think I wasn't crazy about it
when I was doing it in my 30s, Iwasn't crazy about it, you know
yeah it's.
it was a great opportunity.
Some of those events were greatopportunities.
I'm grateful, um.
But yeah, this guy, we I Ispoke and he led worship at
several big events and we, wedeveloped friendship.

(16:26):
He's a very sincere and genuineguy and I texted him one day.
I just I was scrolling thiswill happen where you're looking
in your phone for somebody elsewith the same first name or
something.
See, that guy was like I'mgoing to text that guy.
I just text him.
Hey man, lord, just put you onmy heart.
I just saw your name in myphone contact list.
I'm praying for you right now.

(16:46):
Say a prayer, just justintercede for that guy right
there and send it to him.
And he said I can't tell youright now, I'll tell you later.
But the timing of this wasimpeccable and uh, and so that
type of encouragement you knowthat's one way that people can
be encouragers and um, and it'sfun for the encourager because
you feel like you're a part ofwhat god's doing.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
You're sensitive to the spirit bringing a name to
your brain, whether that bescrolling through your contact
list.
I've just learned to developthe habit of if that name is in
my brain, I'm, I'm gonna reachout there's a reason.
There's a reason you know I'mgonna, I'm doing something
towards that person that couldbe encouraging and helpful.

(17:29):
Okay, so why do you think thisis hard for us?
Like you, really don't meet aton of encouragers.
When someone is superencouraging, it kind of stands
out.
What are some obstacles tobeing a person that encourages
regularly, and why?
Why is this just generally canbe hard for people?

Speaker 1 (17:47):
I think because, uh, people are.
So most people are more focusedon themselves, Um, and maybe
not totally selfishly, but it'slike I got to pay my bills or
I'm, or I've got this ache orthis pain or this illness or
this stress or this relationalproblem or, um, you know, or

(18:10):
people are focused on themselves, just like cause, we're selfish
, we're selfish, and so I thinkabout, uh, Paul writes to the
Philippians and he says donothing out of selfish ambition
or vain conceit, but ineverything, consider others more

(18:31):
important than yourself.
And so the fact that thescripture would give us an
exhortation to do that meansit's not natural, but it is a
work of the Holy Spirit.
I've learned anytime thescripture is exhorting us to
something, it's because that'snot a natural thing for the
flesh to do.
So we're being exhorted to dosomething that is a spiritual

(18:55):
act, not a natural fleshly act.
So when Paul writes to thePhilippians and says do nothing,
don't be selfish in yourambitions and don't do anything
out of vanity, prefer andconsider others over yourself,
and in doing that you're goingto, you're going to be like
Christ.
And so the fact that scriptureexhorts us to that is because

(19:16):
it's so.
So, to answer your question.
I think the biggest hurdle isit's just not natural, it's not
what your.
Your flesh will never motivateyou to encourage others, Even
from the perspective of people'sinsecurities.
I was on the drive down.
I was talking to a youth pastorwho he's in a healthy church
with a good relationship withhis pastor.

(19:37):
But he was telling me we weretalking about a situation he had
been in a few years ago atanother church, about a
situation he had been in a fewyears ago at another church.
And he's just run into thispastor because he's been
ministering to a family that'sstill at that old church but
their kids were in his youthministry when he was at that old
church.
So he's now at a new church.

(19:57):
It's three years later and he'sministering his family and and
we were talking about I saidwhat, what?
Why did you leave that church?
And he said the pastor fired me, literally fired me.
I said okay, first off, that'sdysfunctional church If a pastor
can just fire you, which I'mnot given all the details, but
that's literally what happened.
Pastor called him in and saidyou're done, clean out your desk

(20:19):
.
Okay, that church is not underhealthy biblical leadership.
But what it came down to is thepastor was a very insecure
because this guy was a betterteacher, he was a better
shepherd, he was ministering topeople better, he was an
encourager.
He and this pastor was insecureabout it.
One of the reasons people don'tdon't encourage is because in

(20:42):
their own insecurities, theywant attention for themselves.
I think then, like, like the,the, the, to encourage someone
else is a hum, is an act ofhumility.

Speaker 3 (20:54):
And it's like shining a spotlight on someone else.
It's taking it off you andsaying you're good at that, Yup
yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
You're good at that or I want you to succeed at this
, even if it's something thatmaybe I'm not going to succeed
at.
Yeah, I going to succeed at.
Um, yeah, I think people whenyou find an encourager, when you
find somebody that does a goodjob of encouraging others, that
person is usually pretty securein their own identity.

(21:22):
They have confidence in whothey are in Christ.
And people that are insecureyou know, you worked in, you
worked in student ministry withgirls for a long time All girl
drama spins around insecurity,identity issues.
What's the same thing for 40year old men or 30 year old
women or you know whatever?
Like, it's a human issue.

(21:43):
It just tends to be magnifiedin the teenage years.
But, um, when I start to takethe spotlight off myself and
just want others to succeedthat's why it's snowbird from
day one I was really adamantthat I not be the guy doing all
the speaking Cause.
That's.
That's one where you know if,like, that's the easy one to

(22:05):
think about.
Okay, we think aboutencouraging others, others, um,
encouraging others to get onstage and speak and lead and get
the affirmation of people.
And because the reality is, youknow, there's like in, in, in a
conference where there's fiveteaching sessions.
If I only do one of those I'mputting you know, or two of

(22:27):
those, and three or four othersessions are being taught by
other people.
People might like theirsessions better.
You know what I mean.
It's funny, but that's a thingand I'm cool with that.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
I'm all right with that Don't bother me.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
I just want the Lord to be honored and glorified, and
when you can, let go of thingslike that and care for I, want
God's glory to be first, andthen I want others to succeed
and do well for the glory of theLord.
But then the third piece is Iwant all those things to happen
so that I might grow in humility.
You know that's.

(23:00):
I think that's important.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, I think too.
I think it's almost like a fearof awkwardness to encourage,
like I don't know if you've everfelt this, but people you know.
Take, maybe your local pastor,and it's an assumption that he
doesn't need encouragement.

(23:24):
Like right, he preaches everySunday, he's got this, he's good
at this.
Like that worship leader younoted.
Like right, he preaches everySunday, he's got this, he's good
at this.
Like that worship leader younoted.

(23:44):
It's this assumption thatsomebody in a position like that
, somebody that you're watching,do the thing that they're good
at, whether it's host a smallgroup in their home, feed a
family right, organize a kidsclass, put an event on.
When you see someone do thething that God's made them to do
, I feel like the enemy.
Maybe your flesh can just makeyou assume that person knows
they're good at that, thatperson doesn't need
encouragement, they killed that.
But you know, all of us know,even often, in the very things
that we're good at, we needsomebody to come say like keep

(24:06):
going.
Hey, this is blessing people,this is helping the body.
And I feel like a lot ofleaders can not hear
encouragement from their peoplebecause there's this assumption
that they don't need it, when infact, often they're the people
that need it most again not forflattery, but just for the
discouragement that can comewith doing whatever the thing is

(24:29):
God's called you to do.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, that's so true.
I think there's this assumptionthat people that are doing well
and succeeding at what they do,they don't need to be
encouraged, and a lot of timesthey need to be encouraged the
most.
I can tell you this, and youknow this now when you're in
ministry leadership the enemy,you're targeted way more,

(24:55):
because the enemy knows if hecan destroy a marriage, destroy
a person's testimony or witness,if he can come after you.
I know I wake up every morningwithin an awareness that Satan
hates me.
He would love to destroy me,not just because he don't like,

(25:18):
he's not impressed with me.
He'd love to destroy me becausehe's just loves destruction,
but he would love to destroy mebecause of what it would do to
the name of Christ.
He would love it.
And so, uh, that's why leadersneed to be encouraged, because
the enemy doesn't matter howgood they're doing.

(25:39):
Enemies constantly coming afterhim, you know, constantly
coming after him.
And so I think, for people youknow in in in this topic of
encouragement, people that arelistening, that I would say be
an encourager to your pastors,your small group leaders, the

(25:59):
folks that do dGroups in yourhome or community groups,
whatever your church calls them,people that have taken ministry
responsibility, encourage them.
The lady that you know at ourchurch that plays keys, or they
go it's it's moose placesometimes and Adam Garner play
sometimes.
I just try to tell them man,thank you for using your gifting
for the Lord, it's such ablessing.

(26:22):
And people like that I thinkthat's what you're saying, it's
the example of you think theydon't need to be encouraged.
They're up there ripping it onthat keyboard.
They're so good at it, theylove it, they're doing such a
good job.
Yeah, so tell them right.
Tell them, tell them youappreciate them Right.
A lot of encouragement issaying thank you or I appreciate
you.
Thank you so much for doingthat.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
And the Lord handles how the person receives it, like
I've I've had some people say,well, they don't.
I don't want to puff them upand I'm like, well, let God
handle that I mean yeah and or.
Or it's like this awkwardnesslike well, what if they're
awkward when I say that?
Or like it feels weird to go upand say, brody, that was such a
good sermon.
Well, I've never known someoneto be like gosh, that was too

(27:04):
much encouragement bro know likeit's more like always, a
response of thank you.
I, I you would never guess thetiming of that.
Um, okay, so hebrews 10, 24 letus consider how to stir up one
another to love and good works,not neglecting to meet together
as this habit of some, butencouraging one another all the

(27:26):
more as you see the day drawingnear.
Okay, the first part.
Let us consider how to stir up.
I would love to talk aboutpractically.
How do we do this?
How do we be people thatconsider other people when we
walk into a room, that considerways to actually stir people up

(27:47):
to continue to be faithful toGod day in and day out?
How have you done that?

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Well, first, the word consider.
There is a word that's usedseveral times in the New
Testament and it's worth pausingand considering what that word
means.
It means to look deeply into,to ponder, to think about, to
pause and give a lot ofconsideration.

(28:13):
We use the word You're notsupposed to use, the word you're
defining in the definition.
Consider means to givelegitimate, intentional,
thoughtful consideration, tothink about what is true in this

(28:35):
.
So this is where there'sanother place, the word Jews,
where it says consider yourselfdead to sin.
One translation says reckonyourself dead to sin.
So sometimes the word considerwill be reckon.
It's like to reckon somethingis to affirm its legitimate
truth, you know.
And so to consider how to dothis means it just means I'm

(28:58):
being intentional, and it meansthat encouragement from one
person to the next may not lookthe same.
Like for some people, um, uh,put your arm around them and
give them a little squeeze andjust say hey, I love you a lot
and I'm praying for you.
That may be exactly what thatperson needs.
For the next person, like forme as a man, I'm not going to

(29:18):
put my arm around and hug awoman that I know has a past of
sexual abuse or something likethat, and that that's a physical
embrace that's sort of reservedfor, I think, for someone.
You have very safe, healthyconfidence that this is a
healthy relationship here.
So I'm using that as a as anexample.

(29:39):
Consider how I might encouragethis person.
A hug might be what one personneeds, you know, but then the
next person it might.
But.
But a hug might do damage toone person you know and the next
person it might be um, uh like.
I know that this person's had arough week.
I happen to know for a factthat this guy, eric, who I'm

(30:01):
thinking about at my church, ishe's struggling at work right
now.
I know that Eric's strugglingat work.
I know that there's a couple atchurch that I just met, dalton
and Tabitha, who lost athree-year-old little boy last
year and they've been coming tosnow or to I'm sorry, not
snowboard to Red Oak.
This is a Red Oak family.
They've been coming to Red Oakchurch now for about two months

(30:22):
and they're loving it, but theydrive an hour and I hadn't met
him yet and I met him the otherday.
Well, I know that they losttheir little boy.
So I want to consider how Iinteract with them.
You know, I want to justconsider this other be
intentional in the way youinteract with somebody.
I don't want to walk up and Idon't want to walk up to Tabitha
and say, hey, how you doing?
Okay, hold up, check, check up.

(30:43):
She buried a three-year-oldeight months ago.
I probably can figure out howshe's doing.
To some degree she's probablydoing really crappy.
You know you're a mom, you knowI'm a dad.
Like I can't imagine ifsomebody asked me how you doing?
Like that.
But if they said, hey, how areyou doing, there's a difference

(31:04):
even in the tone, you know, orthe way I ask a question.
So I think to consider meanseverybody and in that, because
what, what Hebrews 10 isspeaking of, there is the
assembling of the church withinthe body of Christ.
There are people that are indifferent situations and
circumstances and we need to bemindful of where others are.

(31:25):
We tend to just, we tend to goMonday to Saturday, do our thing
, throttle down.
We're a fast paced culture andsociety and we're just going,
going, going, going, we.
We wheel into church on Sunday,we grab a cup of coffee, we
come into the worship service,we sort of calibrate our minds,
we sing a few songs, we'lllisten to a sermon and boom,

(31:47):
boom, we're right back outrunning Maybe a few
conversations on the way out thedoor.
But it's like stop, giveyourself to Sundays, give
yourself to the Sabbath, to theSabbath principle, and so
prepare your heart not just tohear the word of God, but
prepare your heart to, to, tocome into the, the assembling of

(32:07):
God's people, and to consider.
There are people around youthat are hurting.
There are people around youthat have something to celebrate
.
You know, like I can thinkabout um, we had a young man in
our church a few years ago thatwon the state championship as a
cross country runner, as afreshman in high school and man,
when I saw him at church thatnext week, we celebrated that,

(32:29):
you know, and somebody might say, well, he don't need to be
celebrated, he just won a statechampionship.
Like back to what you're sayingabout puffing somebody up, you
know, like man, just let'scelebrate.
God's done something here andso, whatever it is, it could be,
it could be anything that aperson's going through good, bad
or difficult trial or situation, but you know it's.

(32:52):
I think that idea of consideringmeans be intentional, one of
the things I love about ourlittle church, red Oak church,
which I say it's a little church.
We had 340 people at churchSunday.
Our town is 1200 people.
Our church attendance bypercentage, 25% of the size of
our town.
That's crazy.

(33:13):
People are coming and I'mconvinced the reason people are
the mayor of the town was there.
A couple of police officerswere there out of the 23,.
Our little one, a high school,out of the 23 faculty members,
seven of them were there, likeby percentage.
The impact that's happening, I'mconvinced, is because we're a

(33:34):
church that has cultivated this,this exact principle Consider
one another.
We walk through the doors ofthe church.
You're not just there to hear asermon and then critique it or
like it or whatever.
You're there to to live incommunity within the body of
Christ.
So consider the people aroundyou are going through different
stuff.
I can tell you that I'm sittingin church on Sunday.

(33:55):
I didn't preach this pastSunday.
I'm sitting in church.
I know for a fact the situationwith the couple behind me.
I know what's going on in theirlife.
They're about five years olderthan me.
I know some very personal stuffthat's going on in their life.
Just because I've asked thepeople in front of me.
I know exactly what's going onin their life.
The people in front of me andone over I know exactly what's

(34:20):
going on in their life.
Like I know he's just getting ajob offer to move to Texas and
they're spun out over it, butthey feel like it's where God's
taking them and I know whatthey're going through.
Like everybody in that churchshould know what everybody not
everybody.
You're not going to know whateverybody's going through, but
you should be dialed into wherewe're considering one another
and if you're doing that you'renot.
That's not faking it till youmake it.

(34:40):
That's I'm prioritizing.
This is my family of faith.
The people in his church matterto me.
I care about them, you know.
And then you take that mindsetover into work or school or
whatever and just be intentionalwith people.
So I think that first part ofthat verse means be intentional,
know what's going on, don't be,don't just be, fluffy.
Hey man, how you doing, awesome.

(35:02):
How many times have you been?
Have you been asked how you'redoing?
And you're like I don't thinkthey really want me to answer
right right.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
I think what you're saying about just church world
like that and red oak being aplace of care, and it reminds me
I think this is why it's such ahuge value for me is is my dad,
when we would.
When I was growing up, my dad'svery calm, nice, encouraging
temperament in general.
I have very little memory ofhim getting angry, but he would

(35:31):
get angry when any of us in ourfamily would be mean to each
other and he would say listen,in this house we build up.
When you leave these doors, Ican't protect you.
The world's going to tear youdown.
You're going to be not built up, you're going to be torn down.
But when you step into thishouse, there is care and love

(35:53):
and kindness in your words.
You're going to love each other.
And that stuck with me when Icame into vocational ministry,
because I realized whoa, thetemptation inside the church
walls is actually to tear downtoo.
There's so much temptation togossip and not care and compete.
But I would go back to what mydad said.
I'm like we don't know what'sgoing to happen to us when we go

(36:15):
out of these doors.
Monday through Saturday, theworld, the enemy, our flesh are
all trying to destroy us, butwhen we're together and we have
a chance to build up, like, whatan impact.
I think encouragement can be atool for evangelism, like just
there being a place where you'reso strengthened to go back into

(36:38):
your secular workplace, to goback into your homes, go back
into your kids basketball teamgame.
I just I think we underestimatethis so much, the power of just
actually considering how tostir one another up and do that
well and uh, and and, like Isaid, the evangelism part one of
the things that I've thought ofover the last little bit.

(37:01):
We were at my daughter'spediatrician a month ago and I
have no idea where he stands inhis faith, but we've had a lot
of ups and downs with herhealth-wise in the first year
and a half and he's just beenwonderful.
And I've thought that a lotLike he's just he's not panicky,
he's funny, he's comforting,he's knowledgeable.
And it just dawned on me likeI've never told this man this,

(37:24):
and so right before he left, Ihad a card for him.
I just gave it to him the nexttime we went.
I mean, we're in there, she'sgot a 103 fever, whatever she's
screaming, he opens the door.
I'm not even thinking about thecard.
He's like, hey, that was themost encouraging card I have.
He's been doing this for like25 years.
I've ever gotten.
And I thought it's becausepeople come in here and he does

(37:45):
his job well and they justreceive it, but they never just
slow down enough to say does heknow he's good at this?
Does he know he's actuallyhelped me as a young mom?
learn what it means to take careof my daughter, and so I don't
know where he stands in hisfaith.
But in that card I said hey, Ithink God's made you to do this
and I just want to affirm thatin you and thank you for being a

(38:07):
partner with me.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
So I don't know.
Encouragement can be a tool toreach the lost too.
I think, yes, that's so good InRomans 12, you're talking about
your dad In Romans 12, when ourkids were growing up we used
Romans 12, 9, I think, as ourkind of our home verse.
It says let love be genuine.
Hate what is evil or abhor whatis evil, hold fast to what is

(38:38):
good and, um, love one anotherwith brotherly affection.
And I think, uh, back to like,like, what your dad is saying is
hey, we're going to, we'regoing to honor one show.
It says outdo one another andshowing honor, Let love be
genuine.
I'll do one another show andshowing honor and love one

(39:01):
another with brotherly affection.
We're going to honor oneanother.
Our love is going to be genuine.
Their sincerity is importantand I'd say that, even in that
evangelistic context, whatconnected with that guy was he?
There was sincerity to that actof kindness of you know giving

(39:24):
him that card, because peoplelike people just want realness.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Just be real.
Like, if you can't, if you can'tbe real in the way you extend
kindness and affection towardssomebody, then then it.
Then you can't do what we'retalking about you, cause you
can't be a fake encourager.
This is not one of those things.
You fake it till you make it.
There's a lot of things in mylife I'll fake it till I make it

(39:52):
.
You know, like there's thingswhere maybe you don't know
exactly what you're doing in a,in a at your job, but you're
like I gotta figure it out, it'sgot to figure it out.
Well, we've been giveninstruction on this.
We don figure this out.
Jesus is our example, um, andthe Lord has put his spirit in
us.
So be genuine, show honor, letyour affection be brotherly.

(40:15):
You know, um, and I think itimpacts people.
That's cool, that story aboutyour pediatrician, like it.
Just you realize, cause youthink people like doctors and
pilots and and, uh, you know,professionals, they're just,
they're above that, they don'tneed that.

(40:36):
There's people made in the imageof God, with affection and
emotion and fear, and and anenemy in a broken world.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
Like you know they're getting.
They're dealing with the samestuff you're dealing with.
Yeah, okay, I have a few morequestions for you.
Last time when I was at dinnerwith you and little, you were
telling me and we you don't needto go into the details of the
story, but when you told it Iwas like I've seen him do this a
lot you were telling me how aspecific summer staffer had just

(41:06):
had a hard week and she hardinteractions with the youth
pastor she was working with,feeling kind of insecure about
how she was handling thoseinteractions.
And you told me that you kindof walking me through just how
you kind of handled this and yousaid you know, I called whoever
was her supervisor, told thatperson she has tomorrow off.

(41:28):
I opened the tab at morning fogfor her and gave her a cup of
coffee.
I told her to go take a nap.
And then I said you know, spendfive, six hours with the Lord
that day sleeping, drink coffee,regroup, and then let's debrief
.
That is what I mean by you leadas an encourager and people

(41:49):
wouldn't know that you ever didthat, that, that.
And so my question to you isthis how have you learned to?
Because that was theinefficient thing to do.
That girl is working with achurch, working with a youth
pastor.
You're telling her take a dayoff.
That you're telling her don'tdo your job, Somebody else is

(42:09):
going to have to cover rec.
It's the inefficient option,right?
But in that moment you'resaying I prioritize this person
over the job at hand, andsometimes the job's got to get
done.
This isn't always practical,but my question to you is I have
seen you do that so much.
How, as a leader, do you keepthe encouragement of your people

(42:32):
at the front of your brain overefficiency, getting the job
done?
You know the reputation ofsnowbird even.
Yeah, I, I admire that you andI want to.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
I want to know about that um, yeah, thanks for
bringing that up.
I had to think.
I wasn't sure what story and,and I remember that specific one
.
Well, there's this saying I didnot make this up and who knows
who actually made it up, but thesaying is a good shepherd
smells like sheep.
Right, you've heard that A goodshepherd smells like sheep.

(43:03):
And then, 1 Peter, 4, peter,this is where he teaches about
the good shepherd.
1 Peter 4 or 5, it's a teachingabout the good shepherd.
It's like shepherd, the flockof God, not domineering, not for
profit, not for personal gain,and it's like not for this but
for this, not for this but forthis.

(43:24):
It's like not domineering butin love and kindness and
compassion, and not, uh, forselfish gain, but basically
you're given of yourself.
So, uh, the idea is, if you'regoing to be in leadership, good
shepherd smells like the sheep.
And that would go for in thesecular world too, like if
you're a business owner, anemployer.

(43:45):
So, from you know, for methat's just.
I don't, I don't even know that,I think about that, I just do
it.
You know what I mean.
Like, um, part of it's, part ofit's probably cause it was a
girl and I'm a dad to girls.
Uh, I will tell you this.
I may get emotional saying this.

(44:07):
I'm going to try not to, but Itry to treat.
I try to treat the people thatserve under me or with me.
I try to imagine I have died,I'm gone, and my daughter is
somewhere else under some dudewho's leading a ministry.

(44:27):
How do I want that guy?
To behave.
How do I want him to behave?
Because maybe not in his life,but I'm going to face some dads
one day on how I led their kids.
I'm going to face some husbandson how I led their wife before
he ever became her husband.
A guy that marries a girl 15years from now, who's serving at

(44:50):
Snowbird right now.
You know, or maybe, hopefully,it's not 15 years, maybe it's
five years, yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
For her sake, for her sake yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
But maybe 15 years from now, they're going through
a crisis and what she's learningnow is going to make her better
.
In that situation, I want to beable to give an account and so
and I think the reason that'sone of the reasons the Lord's
continue to bless the ministry.
And I'll tell you, it's funny,that girl, um, she had told me,

(45:25):
uh, she told me after that, soshe went, she went to my house.
I don't remember.
Seriously, I'm not beingfacetious, but stuff like this
happens a lot.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
Oh, I know.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
And I don't remember the exact, but I remember her
going to my house and going intoour guest room, which is down
in the basement.
It's really cool down there.
It's a really nice little couchand a lamp and a really comfy
bed.
I'm like, just go down therethat next weekend.
So gave her the rest of thatday off.
Yes, and go get a coffee, go tothe river, leave your phone in

(46:00):
your car, go sit by the river,spend time with the Lord.
I'm going to talk to the youthpastor.
I've got your back.
You haven't done anything wrongand it was it had to do with.
I don't even remember thecircumstance now, but, like I
got your back, I'll go talk tohim on your behalf.
And, uh, but that that nextweekend I was like why don't you
come?
Come over to our house, just goon Saturday, go crash in our

(46:21):
guest room downstairs.
You know we don't even need tosee you come into basement,
whatever.
So she did that and, um,somewhere in there we got to
talking and she said she saidyou know I was warned about
coming to work here and I saidby who did I tell you this?

Speaker 3 (46:37):
Yeah, this is the part of the story I love.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
And I said by who?
And she said a name and I and Ishe said a first, a first and
last name and I didn't know whothis person was, which it's
because the person got marriedand when she, this person had
served at Snowbird for a veryshort period under her maiden
name.
But I said what did she warnyou?
And she said that and I don'teven remember now you might
remember I don't know what shehad warned her, that I was, that

(47:01):
I was basically going to takeadvantage of her and and treat
her bad and be harsh be Be harshyeah.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Which is what I mean the initial and I joke with you
that the initial impression ofyou is this guy's about to go
shoot something?

Speaker 1 (47:17):
I'm a hard dude, I know it comes across that way,
and so she.
Yeah, so okay, this is what Iwant to tell you.
At the end of the summer, shewrote me a note.
Oh.
She handed it to me.
Day 88 or whatever it is thelast day.
Camp ends on Saturday.
Remember that we have thatchurch that comes in and they

(47:38):
cook two pigs.
They start cooking pigs onFriday night.
They cook two pigs.
We have a massive pig-pickingbarbecue on Saturday afternoon.
Watch the staff video together,together, and everybody leaves
and she's walking out.
She hands me a car, a card.
It was a real, real brief note.
It just said that person's name.
It says she was wrong.
She was really wrong, and shejust said thank you for, for,

(48:03):
basically for, for leading welland taking care of me and caring
about me.
Um, those, those kinds ofmoments are very motivating.
Those are like those are what Icall out of boys from the Lord.
But, yeah, I think, um, yeah,and and there the part about me
being perceived as being kind ofa tough guy that's because I

(48:25):
don't put on to be somebody I'mnot and that's my natural
personality, you know.
And so if I tried to presentmyself as gentle, I don't even
know what I'm saying, but youknow what I mean.
I just be myself.

Speaker 3 (48:42):
Right.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
And myself is oh, that guy's pretty intimidating.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
Right.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
I have this.
People think I'm intimidating.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
But that's why I love having this conversation with
you is because this topic isn'ta personality thing.
This is a choice to be anencourager and whether that's
your natural bend or not, right,You're one of the toughest guys
I know.
But what I can testify of isthe way that you lead is first

(49:11):
as an encourager, and I justthink like so that means anybody
can make that choice.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Yes, yes, anybody can do it.
Even I would even say you know,we use the, we use the analogy.
Again, this is not we didn'tmake make this up, but we use it
in our ministry that a strongman and I would apply this also
just to a strong leader, male orfemale is like a velvet covered

(49:38):
brick.
You're strong and firm andresolute, you're led by
conviction, but you're soft tothe touch, like, like there's a
softness to the you're.
You're sensitive to the touch,like, like there's a softness to
the you're.
You're sensitive to and awareof the needs of people, and I
think that's what good leadersdo.
But you gotta be aware of them.
The only way you're going to beaware of them is go back that

(49:59):
Hebrews 10, 24, consider yougotta be intentional.
So I would say you have to begenuine or or sincere, authentic
, you know, just be real.
And then you gotta be um, yougotta be intentional, it doesn't
happen accidentally.

(50:20):
And then you need to beaccessible.
And I get it.
A person that's leading aministry of 2,800 people can't
be accessible to 2,800 people.
But so then, what do you do?
You orchestrate and organize astructure where someone is
accessible to everyone.
Right, because even like ourpastor, our lead pastor at Red

(50:42):
Oak, there's no way Joseph canbe accessible to 350 people, 400
people, he can't.
A church like this, 2,800 peopleit's crazy, like, how do you
shepherd 2, 400 people?
You can't.
A church like this, there's2,800 people.
It's crazy, like, how do youshepherd 2,800 people?
Well, you shepherd othershepherds who shepherd other
shepherds.
Right, it's the way the body ofChrist works and if everyone's
being intentional and if we'redriven by genuine love and care

(51:04):
for one another and for the bodyof Christ, we're going to
encourage.
We're not going to tear down.
I got care for one another andfor the body of Christ.
We're going to encourage, we'renot going to tear down.
I have like you want to getexited from Snowbird, be
negative or tear other peopledown?
We won't keep you around, creatediscord, tear people down.
We're going to build up, we'regoing to strengthen.
That's what we're going to doand we're going to be

(51:24):
intentional with it.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
So do you find it hard?
This is something I find hardwhen it comes to encouragement.
Not hard, just I have to beeven more intentional with it Is
those closest to you likelittle, the kids you know?
You're just so used to beingaround them and you're so
familiar with what they're goodat, what they're not good at.
I can sometimes just not eventhink to look at Tyler, my

(51:52):
husband, and say, hey, you'rereally good at that.
Like last night we were at asmall group and we got home and
a few friends texted him andjust said, hey, you have few
words, but your words are sowise and calculated that they're
helpful and they bring clarity.
And I thought, oh yeah, I thinkthat all the time, but I never
say that to him because I'm likecan you just take the trash out

(52:14):
, or three-year-olds ortwo-year-olds screaming and and
so I'd be interested.
I feel like you're anencourager as a dad.
I feel like you're anencourager as a husband.
You know how are youintentional in the most
comfortable environments to belike that?

Speaker 1 (52:30):
Yeah, in some ways you have to work harder at it,
right, at least for a season.
But I think once it'sestablished, it's almost like
you don't have to work harder atit.
It becomes sort of your firstlanguage in the home.
Yeah, I mean, you would need toask my kids.

(52:50):
I'd be curious if I wasn't hereand you asked them is your dad
an encourager?
I'd love to hear their answer.
I think they would say yes, butit's funny little.
I always joke we're so, we'reso.
Not a typical couple, and everycouple says that.
But you know you're not we arenot at all, you know, and and uh

(53:14):
, I get tickled because there'speople I know I know several
couples where, like couples tendto either be one person is
really smitten with the otherperson or there's there's a lot
of tension and conflict andlittle and and I I feel like we
gave each other knuckles in bedthe other night.

(53:35):
I just popped the lamp off, Ilaid down she's almost asleep
and I'd crawl into bed.
It was a long day, it wastowards the end of summer camp,
and I said you awake?
She said yeah, and we had ashort discussion about something
parenting related and uh, Isaid you know?

Speaker 2 (53:57):
we're pretty good at this and she said yeah, we are.
I was like we're pretty goodteam.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
You know, not that we've got.
It's not like an arrogance ofwe figured parenting.
I was like we're pretty good atworking together and making
stuff, figuring stuff out.
Literally I stuck my hand upbecause neither one of us like
to touch when we're sleeping.
Don't touch me.
We've got a massive Californiaking.
You get on that side, I'll geton this side.

(54:23):
It's kind of like the WonderTwins knuckle bump and fist bump
.
Little and I, we have a uniquerelationship where she is not a
verbal encourager to me.
Um, I, but I would not do good.
I wouldn't want to be marriedto a wife.
We've married 31 years, a longtime.

(54:46):
I wouldn't want to be marriedto a wife.
That puffed me up.
That was like real flatteringand I know some couples like
that and it works for them, butit wouldn't work for us.
For me it'd feel weird, It'd beawkward.
But the way that littleencourages me is when a hint of

(55:07):
a crisis occurs, she calls me.
Is when a hint of a crisisoccurs, she calls me.
She calls like and it doesn'tmatter how bad of a crisis it is
, she's calling me because shetrusts me and because we're
going to do it together.
We're in it together, and so Iknow that where that really gets

(55:27):
amplified is little, has aheart for ministry and she
ministers to um, single moms,abused women, uh, people with
addiction in their past.
We have fostered, as you know,a good bit that's kind of her
world.
The Penwell tutoring program isa lot of kids and and single mom
and grandma families that sheminister ministers to there and

(55:49):
single mom and grandma familiesthat she minister ministers to
there, and like she she'll callme she called me yesterday and
said, hey, and she named a guywho's ex wife.
They're they're not evendivorced yet, They've been split
up for a couple of years butlittle's helping this single mom
and she's got two kids from aprevious relationship and one

(56:11):
kid from this guy and this guy'sthreatened her and she said,
hey, I might need you to go seehim and I'm like, okay, why
don't we?
Let's call the police, but likethat to me that she called she
thinks that she believes you gotit.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
Yeah, like that's way .

Speaker 1 (56:26):
that means way more to me than if she gave me a
compliment, right, you know whatI mean.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
Which is back to what you're saying originally know,
know the people you'reencouraging, and and that
probably so applies most to thepeople closest to you yeah
that's right, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
And then, as parents, what I would say to parents and
this gets into this would be acool whole other episode but as
parents, you need to understandwhat it takes to encourage your
child, what it takes to motivateyour child, how you need to
discipline your child and you'renot being an inconsistent or
bad parent if you do thatdifferently from kid to kid.

(57:05):
I used to think I I justassumed when I became a parent
that what worked for one kid, Ineed to come up with a system
that I can apply to all.
Two, three, four, five kids.
How many you got?
So if this is how we're goingto do discipline across the
board, this is how we're goingto do discipline.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
And.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
I had.
You know I had to come to gripswith the fact that that's not.
I got to figure each kid out.
One kid will respond reallywell to something that another
kid might spin out of controlover or shut down over.
One kid might square theirshoulders up when you're
speaking to them in a tone ofdiscipline.
They might square theirshoulders up and look you dead

(57:46):
in the eyes with their armscrossed, with the look of
defiance.
Where the next kid?
If you speak to them and saythe same thing in the same tone
of voice, they completely shutdown and melt.
They go into almost a fetalposition.
They cross their arms, but it'smore in a protective.
They tuck their head and theyslump their shoulders.
You got two kids.
You've reacted the same way toboth these kids, but they've

(58:10):
reacted completely differently.
So, as a parent to, if you'regoing to encourage your children
, you've got to figure out whatthat looks like.
How do I discipline them?
How do I motivate them?
How do I reward them?
And I'm not a childpsychologist, I just been doing
this a long time.
You know I'm not speaking fromcause I got a degree in this or

(58:30):
cause this was what my, myprofessional background was in.
This is I've been a dad for along time and but then I've also
had 250,000 students comethrough snowbird, where I've
seen the effects of goodparenting and I've seen the
effects of bad parenting.
It's a huge um case study.
Basically, it's a massivesample size, and so I would say,

(58:51):
to be an encourager in the home, you still it's.
The same principles apply.
You have to be intentional, youhave to consider what it's
going to take to encourage eachperson.
You need to be.
For me and Little, every singlemorning there's going to be a
kind and gentle word, there'sgoing to be a kind and gentle
touch before I leave the house,cause I don't know if I'm coming

(59:13):
home.
We're not promising anythingand I want the last thing that
happened to be kindness andgentleness, you know, and love
expressed.
So this morning and little Idon't have a clue where I'm
going.
She I was in Jacksonville,florida, two weeks ago.
I'm in Jackson, freaking Ville,florida had planned it.
She knew I was goingJacksonville, florida two weeks
ago.
I'm in Jackson, freakingville,florida, had planned it.
She knew I was going.

(59:33):
It's on the schedule.
I laid out my itinerary and shecalls me and says, hey, where
you at right now.
And I said I'm in Duval County,florida, I'm in Jacksonville,
florida, and she said, oh really.
And I said yeah, yes, yes.
Where did you think I was inwith this, like, and I had left

(59:54):
the house at five that morningand this is at three in the
afternoon and I'll leave thehouse sometime.
She don't see me in the morningand so it was like, uh, we, we
got a really good laugh out ofthat.
She's like oh yeah, I forgotyou were going down there, but
when I can, I'm going to speak.
I want to be intentional withmy words and I think man, so

(01:00:15):
many homes, people, just beintentional to show kindness, to
show kindness and honor andsincerity and genuine love, and
so the home is.
I think these things you got tobe even more focused and
intentional because it is easyto get comfortable and but also

(01:00:35):
I don't I wouldn't respond wellto a bunch of compliments from
my wife every day.
I don't think I wouldappreciate that, but I
appreciate her occasionallysaying something positive you
know to recognize and appreciate, you know, um, and so, yeah,
just trying to trying to beintentional and knowing what
your, what your spouse is like,what your children are like, and

(01:00:57):
being intentional with thatI've often thought when I've
been at funerals.

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
You know you hear these eulogies and I'm like gosh
I hope that person knew youthought that while they were
alive, like cause, it'll just bethis beautiful moment of honor,
and I'm like man.
I hope you told them that, showthem that I hope they would sit
on this row and say I knew shefelt that way and I've thought

(01:01:21):
that a lot like in marriage.
I've thought that about myparents, my brother, just people
that are closest to me, mydearest friends, like I mean, I
would just pour my heart out ina eulogy for all those people,
but I want them to know whilethey're breathing, I honor you
in this way and I hope you justkeep being this kind of person.
My dad, like I said, this is hisstrong suit.

(01:01:42):
He has said to me if, like onhis tombstone, we said faithful
to Jesus and my wife and kidsknew I loved them, that was good
enough and I'm like oh dad likeokay, we'll write it.
I'm like it's written, we'll doit, and so he has just always

(01:02:03):
been a guy to go out of his wayof like you could burn this
world down, brooke, and I'd bethere and I'm for you and I love
you.
And I think I didn't get thepower of that until being an
adult and realizing that kind oflove and encouragement.
Home my mom is very similar,dad just led in this, but that
kind of love and encouragement,it just forms a human in a

(01:02:26):
healthy way.
You know, know, we need that inthe home and, um, I'm thankful
for that example.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
so you should always.
I love that.
That's beautiful.
I love that I that that's verymeaningful for me as a dad to
hear and it's motivating andI've never even met your dad and
so I'm really grateful to hearit.
When laylee so laylee, you'dnever know this, but Lailie,
who's on this?
She was on here about two,three months ago.

(01:02:54):
I interviewed her JB and I satdown with her and Lailie was
like you know, she was anathlete.
You were an athlete and I lovedgoing to watch her play
basketball.
I loved going to her volleyballgames.
I loved going to her soccergames.
That was her thing.
I watched her play basketball.
I love going to her volleyballgames.
I love going to her soccergames.
That was her thing.
She was.
You know she was.
Whatever you win awards at thestate level, you know she's very

(01:03:18):
accomplished.
But I would always say to herafter her games I really, really
, really like watching you playsoccer.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
I really really love watching you play volleyball.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
Never about what she did, yeah, yeah.
And I think if, as as dads andmoms, if we can figure out how
to just make sure that our valuesystem is intrinsic.
It's I'm bestowing love on you.
You're not earning that from me.
I think that's genuine love fora parent or a spouse.
It's unearned love, becausethat's how God loves us.

(01:03:54):
It's intrinsic, it's not earned.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
Yeah, yeah, so good.
Okay, I this morning wasreading a book I'm going through
and it's just one of thosemoments where you're like God
wanted us to have thisconversation, and the chapter I
was in had a little thing onencouragement.
I thought this was just sohelpful.
Okay, he says this To encourageliterally means to put courage

(01:04:22):
into someone.
It is to notice someone'sactions and then to put the
courage in them to keep actingthat way and boldly expressing
that part of themselves.
When you did blank, it looked alot like redemption.
Keep doing your part inredemption.
When you encourage someone,you're not just being nice,
you're being like God, you'reacting in harmony with the

(01:04:42):
Spirit.
How often do you use your wordsfor that purpose?
So what have you admired insomeone else but have never said
to their face?
Encourage them.
What encouraging thought haspassed through your mind but
never made its way to your lips?
Say it so helpful.
That was this morning.

Speaker 1 (01:05:01):
So good and I was like and it's what we're talking
about, this is what we'retalking about that book's, not
on encouragement, so it just Idon't know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):
That would be maybe how I would end.
This is saying be, someone thatjust says what you see God
doing around you in otherpeople's lives, in your family,
in your workplace, in thebusiness world, in being a
teacher, being a preschooldirector, being on church staff
camp ministry pastor Justconsider how you can be in other

(01:05:33):
people's lives someone thatsays what you see God doing.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Yes, and I like that because it's what he or she,
what he's saying there isencouragement.
To go back to a definition ofit or a working definition would
be.
Encouragement is going tomotivate people to continue to

(01:05:57):
press on, to persevere, toendure, to labor, to toil, to
sweat, to work, to love, to takerisks, to keep moving forward
with purpose.
That's way different thansaying nice things to somebody
to make them feel good.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
You can say something nice to somebody to make them
feel good.
But I'm looking there's.
There's a box of uh cookies ormuffins or something over there
on the counter.
If someone, if someone's areally good cook, or if they, if
they bake really well and theybake some really good bread, and

(01:06:39):
you say that bread is so good,so good, that may not motivate
them to keep baking more bread,but it is going to make them
appreciate that you appreciatewhat they've done.
So there is that kind ofencouragement You're recognizing
somebody's work or investmentand appreciate.
But what this guy's saying is,in the bigger picture of

(01:07:01):
motivating the kingdom work ofbelievers, investing in
believers, if I'm going toencourage somebody, it's going
to motivate them to continue.
It's going to charge theirbattery.
I'm going to.
If I'm going to encouragesomebody, it's going to motivate
them to continue.
It's going to charge theirbattery, it's going to fill
their tank.
And I think that's what thiskind of two categories of
encouragement that recognizingwhat somebody's done and just

(01:07:23):
being appreciative, thankingthem.
Thank you for this bread, thiswas amazing.
Thank you for this meal youprepared for me, thank you's so
good.
That's encouraging.
But then what that guy's sayingI love because it's like, hey,
what you're doing is makingkingdom impact.
Well, that motivates you to keepdoing it right just motivates
you and and I appreciate thatyou you know the thing you said

(01:07:44):
earlier about puffing up.
Some people are hesitant,hesitant to give any kind of a
compliment, because they don'twant to puff somebody up.
It's funny.
Sometimes I'll get an email ora text and it'll say, or
somebody will say to me I don'twant to, I'm not trying to boost
your ego, and then they'll givea compliment.
I'm like are you really?

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
complimenting me or do you feel like an obligation
to say something nice to me,right?

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
now, don't quantify it right, just say it.
Be free with it.
Yeah, trust, like you said,that's between that person and
the lord right.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
Just encourage them and this is something like as a
young leader and this probablyhas some selfish undertones, so
take it with what you want.
But and I didn't realize thisbut like when you're an
encourager and when youencourage up as a young leader,
so like what I mean, like when Iserved under you, I wanted to,

(01:08:34):
I wasn't scared to encourage upto you, like, hey, thank you for
that staff training talk.
That was really really helpfulfor my faith today, thank you.
Or now, when I'm servingvocationally at a church, the
guys ahead of me a lot of timesyoung leaders it's like like
they feel like they don't havethe ability, like the
accessibility to you know, oh,it'd be weird for me, like Brody

(01:08:56):
doesn't need that and I'm underhim, and like he's good at that
and and that's just not myplace, it's his place to
encourage me.
But when you're a young leaderagain, doesn't just have to be
ministries, it could be anyplace.
I really think you stand outwhen you're someone who just
leads by being an encourager.

(01:09:18):
Be the loudest encourager inthe room as the youngest person.
Don't go in there teaching,don't go in there thinking.
You know everything.
Go in there naming.
Hey, you were so good at thatYou're so good at that.
And it's funny like we useSlack I don't know if you know
what that is.
It's like a kind of like abusiness group me as our staff

(01:09:38):
communication.
And for several years here,because I was one of the
youngest I was always like, likeour head guy, her head pastor,
would have an amazing sermon andI would just want to put it in
there in front of everybody.
Like hey, that was so goodtoday.
Thank you for saying that.
Or we had a worship night theother night and I wanted to put
it in there.
Our worship guide, just howhelpful it was, just such a good

(01:09:58):
night.
And I used to be super hesitant,like I don't know.
Just something about, like oh,is this my place?
Like shouldn't somebody else bedoing this?
And I've just become someonethat I'm like, if I think it, I
want to put it in there and Iwant to put it in front of the
other people, cause I want tosay everybody, we all thought
that was awesome.
Nobody's really saying it, butI want to say that and I've just

(01:10:19):
, I've just seen that givepeople a lot of wind in their
sails and and it's, it's, it'sallowed me to have sometimes a
voice in the room because theyknow I'm coming in positive and
I really am, before I'm going tobe maybe critiquing something
or negative or think somethingcould be better.
It's like it almost opens upyour ability to lead when you're

(01:10:40):
just someone that adds value byencouraging.

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
That's so good, that's really good.

Speaker 3 (01:10:45):
And be genuine about it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
Do you know?

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
anybody can do that Anybody.
Anybody can do that Anybody.
Anybody can do that, you'reyou're a teacher, you have
administration over you,encourage them.
You're a business guy, you havea CEO, encourage them.
Like, um, you're in a campusministry, you have direct
national directors like,encourage them.
Nobody doesn't needencouragement.
You know there's nobody that'slike high enough that doesn't

(01:11:12):
need you to say great job and,and I've just learned, that gets
you respect and it gets youtrust that you're somebody
that's for people and I thinkthat's helpful.
So, okay, anything we didn'ttalk about that you want to talk
about.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
No, I think that's it .
I think I really like where welanded this, especially that
last quote.
Being an encourager is going tomotivate people to continue.
Keep their hand to the plow,keep your eyes on Jesus.
Remember when you're teaching akid how to ride a bike and you

(01:11:52):
give them something to look atthat's way out there, because if
they're looking down at thewheel, it starts to wobble.
I'm acting this out right now,guys, like you know, you're
turning left, the handlebar'swobbling.
As they start to gain thebalance they need to ride on
that bike, you say, hey, look atthat tree and ride towards it.
And that's that's us, man, like.

(01:12:12):
Fix your eyes on Jesus.
We're all moving Literally, thescripture tells us this to fix
our eyes on Jesus.
But in that journey, in thatprocess, as disciples of Christ,
we need to be encouraged.
God has instructed us to dothis for one another, so we

(01:12:35):
should, and, and and I think thesimplest way to do it for a lot
of people is going to be make alist of people that you want to
target this week and either jotdown a note on a three by five
card or send them a text.
Man, it's so easy with phonesnow you know voice memo.
Yeah, so easy, so easy to do it.
Um, I I did it to a couplepeople today on the drive down,
guys that I know are strugglingin ministry right now.
Hey, man, I'm in it with you,praying for you, keep going.

(01:12:59):
So, yeah, thanks, this was fun.

Speaker 3 (01:13:02):
It was fun for me too .

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
I like flipping over to this side and being more the
person answering questions.
That's cool, good more theperson answering questions.
That's cool, good, good For allthe ladies that listen.
Just wanted to make sure you'reaware that Brooke will be at
Respond, the upcoming Respondconference, which will be the
2026 Respond conference, whichis our women's conference that
we host in the spring, andshe'll be one of the keynote

(01:13:26):
speakers.
She always does a phenomenaljob.
Brooke is an incrediblecommunicator.
I'm real excited about thelineup of ladies that are dialed
in and speaking at this eventthat we've got coming up and the
Respond Conference next spring.
The teaching focus is going tobe the women who are in the line
of Christ.
In the line of Christ, whichmost people feel confident that,

(01:13:49):
if not all, the majority, forsure of those ladies that are
mentioned in Jesus's lineage,specifically Matthew, those five
ladies that most, if not all,were Gentiles, and so there's
just a lot going on with thembeing grafted in, and then
they're women of, you know, illrepute, I guess would be the way

(01:14:13):
you would word it.
So you've got Tamar, and thenRahab, ruth, bathsheba and then
Mary, who's not a woman of lowesteem or like reputation, but
that's what she got tagged with,you know, for being found with
child, and so, anyway, it'll bea good teaching series.

(01:14:36):
We haven't done that.
It's kind of to me a go-to typesession or top topic for a
women's conference or for girls,and so because of that, we've
sort of stayed away from it,just because it felt like, well,
that's probably what everybodyexpects us to do.
But, man, we're going to do it.
I'm excited for these ladiesthat are going to be teaching.
Brooke's one of the ones thatwill be bringing the word and

(01:14:57):
teaching at Respond.
So make sure you're signed upfor that, if you're not already,
or get signed up, and thenwe're going to be recording some
more.
Brooke and I think are going tostart doing this ever so often,
so we'll be looking forward tothat.
I always enjoy talking to her.
She's such an incredibly giftedcommunicator man.

(01:15:17):
She's so, so gifted and wantsto use those gifts and talents
for the Lord and I'm just I'mproud of her and thankful for
her.
I've known Brooke since she wasabout 13 or 14.
So awesome to watch the Lordgrow her into a godly woman and
mama and wife and ministryleader, and so it's an honor to
have her on.
Hope that you got something outof this episode today and next

(01:15:40):
up we've got some bonus episodescoming up.
I want to make you aware of.
We're going to be doing somedebrief from the summer, but
we've also got some things thatwe're going to be addressing
that have recently come into thenews and that has to do with
penal substitutionary atonement,a major core, key doctrine that

(01:16:01):
we hold to and consider it aheel worth dying on, and it's
kind of it's one of those thingsthat's always under attack.
Every generation in the churchseems like this comes under
attack.
So, anyway, we're gonna sitdown.
I haven't done this yet.
We're gonna sit down today asthis episode's dropping.

(01:16:21):
We'll be filming our teachingteam and we're gonna be working
through thoughts on that, somestatements that have been made,
a book that's come out recentlyand we're shifting, actually,
the focus for our Be StrongConference next month.
We're shifting it.
We're flipping the 2026 FallConference teaching focus with

(01:16:43):
this year's focus.
We're flipping those because wewere going to be talking about
penal substitutionary atonementin 2026 Fall Conference.
But we're going to go ahead andflip that and we're going to.
We're going to make that themain point and focus of this
year's conference.
So we'll be recording aconversation on that, uh later
today and we'll get that up as abonus episode this week.
So watch for that.

(01:17:04):
All right, thank y'all, asalways, for for listening and
supporting NSR.
If you don't have the book,grab the book, go to the gear
store, get it and uh.
And then the other thing is uh,next week I'm going to, or the
week after I've got it on theschedule, to read just comments,
quotes.
We've had a ton of them, lotsof feedback.
I'm gonna do an episode wherewe just read readers comments

(01:17:25):
and a lot of feedback.
So looking forward to that.
Thank y'all, have an awesomeweek.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
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