September 12, 2025 • 28 mins
The assassination of Charlie Kirk and the murder of a Ukrainian refugee in Charlotte have shaken many, raising urgent questions about truth, persecution, and the Christian response to growing hostility. In this episode, we reflect on Charlie Kirk’s legacy of respectful dialogue, the cost of speaking truth in today’s world, and the wisdom scripture offers in times of grief and confusion.
Jesus warned that persecution would come—and history confirms it. Yet even in the face of evil, God remains sovereign. We’ll explore what it means to stand firm with conviction, to defend the vulnerable with grace, and to fix our eyes on eternity rather than fear. Turn off the noise, open God’s Word, and rediscover the peace that only Christ can provide.
Psalm 5
Please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help improve No Sanity Required and help others grow in their faith.
Click here to get our Colossians Bible study.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, we're going to talk for a few minutes this
morning about recent events andspecifically about, uh uh,
assassination and murder ofCharlie Kirk, and this coming on
the heels of the brutal murderof an innocent young lady, the
Ukrainian young lady who wasmurdered on a on a city transit
(00:20):
in Charlotte.
And before we get into this, Ijust want to say the one thing
that has come out in the lastfew days.
I wasn't super familiar withCharlie Kirk.
I mean, I had watched soundbites and clips but I never
really followed Turning Point indepth.
But I just knew I resonatedwith him.
You know, like when I wouldhear him talk I would think, man
(00:42):
, this guy makes a lot of senseespecially to be such a young
dude with him.
You know, like when I would hearhim talk I would think, man,
this guy makes a lot of sense,especially to be such a young
dude and um, but I I didn't.
I have listened to more of himin the last 48 hours than I ever
had.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I think that's the case for most people yeah, and
what I've?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
what has been shocking to me is how open he
was to discourse, publicdialogue, and you know he would
always operate in the publicsquare.
I was talking to Tuck lastnight and Tuck said man, he's
slated to come to Virginia Techin two weeks and do, and you
know he was going to be at Tech,but he would go into the public
square and he would.
(01:15):
he would have open discoursewith people that disagreed with
him and if the crowd waspredominantly conservative or
from his viewpoint, he wouldtell the crowd please be quiet
and let this be respectful, letthis person talk, and so I I
appreciate that approach that hetook and and uh, and I don't
(01:35):
think anybody can say that heyou know that he was guilty of
hate speech or you know creating, creating arguments or fights
just for the sake of it.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
He was a person who was interested in free speech
and discourse and sitting downwith people that you had
opposing views with and talkingthrough things and was so good
at articulating and, like yousaid, it just made so much sense
when you listened to him.
And one thing that I reallyappreciated of him was he fought
(02:08):
for the truth and ultimately, I.
We talked about this later inthe episode, but that's what
killed him.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, it killed him.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
And, uh, we always say here at Snowbird the most
loving thing I think Brody saysthis a lot the most loving thing
you can do to a person is sharethe truth with them.
So we're kind of talking.
That's something that we candefinitely take away from.
(02:39):
All of this is just his way todiscuss peaceably with people of
such differing opinions, theway he just was able to respect
their thoughts but also sharethe truth with them.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
So yep.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Welcome to no Sanity Required from the Ministry of
Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters.
A podcast about the Bible,culture and stories from around
the globe from around the globe.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I want us to talk about just kind of the state of
what's going on right now.
This past week there was themurder of a Ukrainian refugee.
It didn't happen this past weekbut it became headline news
this past week because it seemslike when it happened a few
weeks ago it then was just kindof swept under the rug.
It happened in the city ofCharlotte, which is here in our
(03:29):
state, which is not known askind of a crazy place of crime.
It's not Chicago, it's not LasVegas, but Little, and I have
been talking about this.
We're already feeling thestress and strain of of that
situation.
And then the incident withCharlie Kirk happened.
And I've in my life, I've livedthrough a few monumental things
(03:53):
historically.
You know like I remember when Iwas a kid people talk about
they remember where they werewhen Kennedy got shot, or the
older people when I was a childremembered, uh, pearl Harbor,
december, december 7, 1941, whenAmerica got attacked by the
Japanese Empire.
And then I remember.
The first thing I remember as akid was when I was in fourth
(04:16):
grade the attemptedassassination of Ronald Reagan.
I can remember getting on theschool bus and something I
remember vividly from that.
I remember getting on theschool bus and something I
remember vividly from that.
I remember getting on theschool bus and kids saying if
the guy killed Reagan, if Reagandies, they should give this guy
an award.
And instantly there was thislet's celebrate this person
(04:37):
because of what he's done to theperson that we oppose
politically.
And when this stuff happenedthis past week, a couple of days
ago, with Charlie Kirk, it waslike instantly people were
saying similar stuff.
And so you realize it's notjust that we live in a world of
darkness, it's just chaotic.
(04:58):
It's dark, it's chaotic, and soI want to before.
I want you to kind of leavethis conversation, jb, but I
want to say this first, to setit up, jesus gave instruction in
mark 13 and matthew 24.
Jesus gave instruction, what'scalled the olivet discourse, and
in that instruction a lot ofpeople take those two passages
(05:21):
and they they think that thosetwo passages apply to the end
times.
I don't hold to that.
I believe there are aspects ofthose passages that are pointing
to end times and there areaspects of those passages that
are pointing to things thatwould happen in the time of
Christ.
And what he promised is he said, this generation is not going
(05:42):
to pass until there's conflict,rumors of war, wars, catastrophe
.
People are going to rise upagainst each other, and he
paints this picture of greatpersecution against the church
of Jesus.
And from the time of Christuntil today, there's always been
(06:03):
persecution against Christians,and when you speak out for
truth, there's going to bepersecution for that, and so we
shouldn't be surprised whenthings like this happen.
It's still shocking, but welive in a world where the truth
will always be under attack, andI think I was talking to Austin
yesterday.
What's hard to process andwhat's disorienting is when you
(06:23):
have professing Christiansspeaking out saying things like
well, he asked for this or hedidn't ask for this.
Yeah, not asked to be murderedin the public square.
That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It's asinine.
It's like you don't have toagree with this guy on all of
his viewpoints, but, man, heloved the Lord, I believe,
believe and made a very clearand articulate expression of his
faith in jesus and he gotkilled for it.
Ultimately, that's why he died,yeah, I think, and so we just
just take a few minutes here andand give thoughts, answer
(06:58):
questions that I think from yourgeneration.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I'd like to hear it from your perspective and I'll
do my best to kind of shed lighton on questions that you think
might be asked yeah, um, I justalso want to clarify and you did
a great job like I don't wantthis episode to just dwell on
the evil and the horrible thingsthat have happened this week,
and that's kind of what startedthis conversation.
(07:21):
As I've been just prayingthrough this and working through
it, I've just kind of been, Iguess, in the mindset of like,
okay, now that this has happened, like what can we focus on?
And like what should thisencourage us to focus on?
And, yes, obviously, like stillmourning and grieving the loss,
like so much has happened inthe past couple of weeks that
(07:43):
have just been horrific andterrible.
But I think the biggest thingstep number one, I think for me,
when all this happened, I thinkI spent like an hour and a half
just like scrolling andsearching and, you know, trying
to figure out what happened Ishe okay, is he going to make it,
do they have the guy andwhatever.
And then, like immediatelyfollowing that, I just remember
(08:06):
being like why did this happen?
Like why did this happen?
And just kind of started to godown a path of like I don't
understand, like I know that Godis sovereign, but why would
this happen?
And I think that's very easy tofall into those questions of
anything tragic happens on apublic stage or in your personal
life, whatever, and I thinkthat just reminded me.
(08:29):
Okay, I need to get inscripture, I need to get off
social media, and I think thatwould be helpful for so many
people, because so many peoplejust have so many strong
opinions and even, like you weresaying, I've seen a lot of
people start to make mockery ofhis death, of how things should
be handled, whatever, and Ithink that is not helping, if
(08:50):
I'm honest, and so I would justencourage those who are
listening like get in scripture.
I like, probably for that firstday after Charlie's death was
announced, I was just feelinglike blah, like it was just
super weird.
I went to a Braves game with myparents and was just kind of
sitting there and was like I wasjust feeling like blah, like it
was just super weird.
I went to a Braves game with myparents and was just kind of
sitting there and was like whatis going on?
And it wasn't until later thatevening that I, you know, got in
(09:12):
scripture and journaled andprayed, and then that's kind of
where all of these things kindof the Lord placed on my heart
and we'll get into that.
But I just kind of wanted toopen with that of like take a
second and get off social mediaand stop watching videos and
stop like it's not helping, youknow.
(09:35):
But kind of what I mentionedearlier is kind of like what we
can focus on.
Like I said, I don't just wantto dwell on this evil that has
happened and, like you said,like I think for me this was
eyeopening of like evil is inthe world.
It always has been in the worldand so when you ask yourself
that question why did thishappen?
Or maybe why did God allow thisto happen I quickly was humbled
(09:58):
and was like I don't have ananswer and I never will have an
answer besides, like we live ina fallen world and it's riddled
with sin and that is why evilthings happen you know, and so
that kind of um, I've just beenpraying and journaling through,
um, like what we should befocusing on and what we can be
focusing on, and ultimately Iwant this episode to be a bit of
(10:21):
an encouragement.
Um, and weirdly enough, in thistime of like grief and craziness
and sadness, I have felt likethis pocket of peace and pocket
of like encouragement, and sothat's kind of what I'm going to
go through.
I feel like I'm just talking incircles, but that's good.
Um, one of the main things thatI first jotted down.
(10:44):
I have a few bullet points ofwhat we can focus on, and the
first one is eternity.
I think I mentioned this on anepisode a few months ago.
I had a conversation with mybrother-in-law a while back
about just like secular beliefs,or maybe what different
political parties believe, andlike so crazy that they're just
(11:04):
so passionate about.
Like you're right, I'm wrong,whatever.
And he said, for those whodon't know Christ, like this is
their eternity, like this worldis all that they have.
So, of course, they're going tofight so hard to make this
amendment or to make this law orwhatever, and they're going to
fight so hard to make sure theirpoint is correct quote unquote.
(11:24):
And I think that is like supereyeopening for me as well.
It's like, as believers, weknow we don't belong here, like
we know, um, that this isn't it,this isn't all we have been
promised, and like, if anything,everything that's happened
should just make us like longfor eternity, for home.
You know, and I also thinkthat's like it makes me sad,
(11:48):
like that people who don't knowchrist are so hopeless that they
feel the need to rationalizewith these horrific, these
horrific, horrific actions ofviolence.
Um, and so I think that, like,as believers, we can truly just
reflect and thank the Lord, likethis isn't our home and we have
so much more you know to lookfor and long for.
(12:11):
Um, and then that also kind ofleads me into God's sovereignty.
Um, like I said, like when thisfirst happened I was praying
through.
I was like Lord, I know thatyou're sovereign and I trust
that you're sovereign.
But like it's just so hardsometimes to wrap your mind
around that you know.
And so even just prayingthrough that and even looking
(12:32):
back in Old Testament and allthroughout scripture, like you
said, there's always been evilin the world and God has
remained Lord and King andvictorious.
And like scripture is so clearthat, like the world hates God,
the world hates truth.
Like John 15, 18 maybe says,like if the world persecuted me,
(12:56):
it will persecute you.
If the world hated me, likejust know, or if the world hates
you, just know it hated mefirst.
And so just kind of lookingback at those all throughout
scripture of, like man, this isnot the first time something
like this has happened and it'snot the last time unfortunately,
and just really relying andtrusting and sitting in the fact
that, like through all of this,the Lord is sovereign and will
(13:18):
continue to be sovereign.
Sitting in the fact that, likethrough all of this, the Lord is
sovereign and will continue tobe sovereign.
And then also, for some reason,luke 23, where Jesus is on the
cross and he says, father,forgive them, like they don't
know what they've done.
I don't know why that verse hasjust been in my head.
(13:38):
By no means am I trying to takescripture and morph it and
apply it to a situation thatdoesn't apply, but I think for
me that verse has just been inthe moment that Christ died and
there was so much arguing and somuch disunity.
In that moment he was still sograceful and merciful and in a
(14:01):
weird way, like that gives me somuch encouragement and
obviously, as a believer, weshould strive and desire to look
more like Christ and to actmore like Christ.
And I think in that moment Idon't know it just gives me so
much encouragement of like hedid not step back.
He did not, he was not defeated, like he wasn't passive, but he
(14:26):
was still so merciful and sogracious and so loving towards
people that you know were socorrupt and stuff, and so I
think I don't know why, likeother than the fact that the
Lord placed that in my mind andin my heart.
So, even though, like I just seeso much arguing and stuff on
social media, which I agree,like we do not need to be
(14:48):
passive, but also like he was sograceful, gracious and caring
and compassionate in the mostlike heated time, you know, and
so I think that's justencouraging to me, one for me to
look to and try to replicate,but two, also like so
encouraging that we serve theGod who is so strong, victorious
(15:09):
, but also so kind andcompassionate and gracious, and
so that kind of just wraps uplike overall, just reflecting on
Christ and the personhood ofChrist, the life, death and
resurrection of Christ.
And I know that's like a lot oftimes I can almost try to look
past that and be like, no,what's the deeper?
Like I need something deeper.
(15:29):
No, that's it, that is it, youknow, like Christ was persecuted
, Christ was killed, um, andChrist rose, like he's
victorious and because of that,as believers, we're victorious,
we can live and walk in that.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I think that's all good.
A couple of thoughts.
One, the writer of Ecclesiastessays that there's a time for
everything, a time and a seasonfor everything.
And he says there's a time forwar and there's a time for peace
.
And as believers, there aretimes where we're called to
(16:08):
fight or to defend the weak orto fight against evil.
I believe in history there aretimes where Christians can agree
that fighting was the rightthing to do.
Now there's going to bedisagreements on when and what
that looks like.
If you take someone who's apacifist, they're going to say
(16:29):
we should never fight, we shouldjust trust God.
And then you take someone who'sa Christian nationalist,
they're going to say we shouldtake up arms and create a
Christian state.
I mean, that's not.
That's a generalization of whatchristian nationalism is.
That's not fair to to saythat's what christian
nationalists believe, but anextreme view of that, where we
(16:50):
see christianity as this sort ofmilitant march which is what
happened under the latter partof the roman empire, where it
became governmentally controlledchristianity like we're all
going to be Christian and thatdoesn't.
That doesn't seem biblical.
Passivism doesn't seem biblicaland it all comes down to that
verse in Ecclesiastes that saysthere's a time to fight and
(17:10):
there's a time for peace.
Jesus gives us some context toit.
He says in John 14, um, let notyour hearts be troubled.
So in a time like this, jesuswould say to us hey, don't let
your heart be troubled, neitherlet it be afraid, because in my
Father's house there's security.
(17:31):
That's not the word he uses,but he's saying there's a place
where this doesn't happen.
And I go to prepare a place foryou there and you're going to
come to me there.
I'm going to go before youprepare this place.
You're going to come.
Charlie Kirk has entered intothat.
You know I texted.
All the men in my family are ina text thread, a text group,
and I love those guys.
(17:52):
They're they're kind of someknuckle dragon.
You know good old boys and andyou know they're ready to take
up arms and let's go.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
And I love it.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I don't want them to not be like, yeah, that's how
they are, but um and, andthey're patriots.
And I told, I texted them theother day and I said, hey, I'm
bummed by this, but I believeCharlie Kirk was a believer,
which isn't, you know,conversation for maybe another
time.
But I believe he made it clearthat he embraced and accepted
(18:21):
the gospel and I've heard himgive his testimony and his
account.
And I texted all the guys in myfamily in that thread and said,
hey, this is hard and I hate it,but he's entered his reward,
he's entered his rest, he'sreceived his reward.
He has now received the rewardof his suffering and he's gone
to a place that will one day go.
(18:42):
And I think the lesson we learnis wake up every morning
prepared to die.
You don't know what's going tobe your last day, and every
single day I want to wake up,put on the whole armor of God,
live my life wearing thebreastplate of righteousness,
(19:03):
carrying the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God.
Get up every day, drench yourmind in scripture, drench your
heart in the grace of the Lord,embrace the responsibility of
the gospel and go, live it outand know this might be your last
day, and I don't want to die ona day where I'm not doing that
Right.
(19:23):
And so he.
I think that's a perspective wecan take from this and and we
can thank him for for that heexampled for us how to die Well,
cause we're all going to die.
I want to die Well.
I want to finish my race withmy hand gripping the plow, my
other hand gripping the sword,and that's the way I want to go
see Jesus.
And so there's a time for war,there's a time for peace.
(19:43):
Right now it's probably not thetime for war, but it's also
back to what you said when Jesusprayed Father, forgive them.
I think there is a time whereJesus would say when someone
persecutes, you embrace thatpersecution, and we may be
(20:03):
seeing a shift in our culture,whereas Christians, we're going
to see an increase inpersecution.
That may happen.
And I would just say to folksthat lean more aggressively
towards a nationalistic idea ofChristianity, I would say this
that throughout history, if youtake every century, in 21
(20:25):
centuries of Christianity 20plus centuries of Christianity
the majority of the church hasfaced persecution for their
faith.
I mean, of the 12 apostles ofof Christ take Judas out the
other 11 were all persecuted.
At least 10 of them died fortheir faith.
(20:46):
John was imprisoned.
Uh, there was great persecutionin the church Then.
There's great persecution inthe church today.
And the other thing I would sayis the capital C church is not
just the American church, it'sthe African church, the Asian
church, the South Americanchurch, and when you take the
global church of Jesus, theamount of persecution is great.
(21:09):
I mean, christians arepersecuted, and so we wake up
each day knowing I need to puton the armor of God and be ready
to proclaim the truth and lovemy enemy and do good to those
that persecute me and have themindset of Christ in that, and
when there is a time to fight,whether that's through
legislation or to defend theweak, I would say when someone
(21:30):
says, well, when should youfight?
Well, I'll give you a workingexample.
People have often asked atSnowbird why we take security to
the extreme.
We take it because we have wehave a very aggressive security
protocol for our worshipservices.
A lot of churches have someguys carrying pistols that are
kind of walking around.
We have the most aggressivesecurity protocol I've ever seen
(21:50):
.
We have multiple long gunsaround the building.
We have a gated securitycheckpoint.
People have to come throughWithin the building when we're
having a worship service.
We have multiple long guns instrategic positions and we have
anywhere from six to 10 peoplecarrying handguns placed
(22:11):
throughout the building and wehave a plan for how we're going
to react and we drill it and wetrain it and we practice it.
We have a protocol.
So there is a time to fight.
And I will tell you this if youattend an event at Snowbird
Wilderness Outfitters as astudent, I would say this to
parents we will kill to protectyour child.
There's a time to fight right.
There's a time to kill andthere's a time to die.
(22:33):
And for for Charlie Kirk, hiswas a peaceful approach.
He used he used the publicsquare to speak truth and to
accept the consequences, causemore than once now we've all
seen videos in the last few daysof him saying I want to, I want
when I die, I want to be knownas a guy who had courage in his
faith.
And he did that and he showedthat.
(22:55):
So let's learn from it.
Let's honor him by by beingable to articulate the gospel
and keep your composure.
Don't freak out.
Those dudes who I love, thatare my family members.
They freak out when somebodygoes on social media and says
something that's contrary towhat they believe.
It's okay.
People are going to not believewhat we believe and they're
going to persecute us for it.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
That's all right, that's fine, that's good.
No, what we?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
believe and they're going to persecute us for it.
That's all right, that's fine.
That's good yeah, no worries,the truth will set you free.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
And the truth is the gospel, and so let's spend our
energy proclaiming the gospel ofJesus and knowing the gospel.
And knowing the gospel.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Teaching it to yourself, preaching it to
yourself?
Yeah.
So when the time comes todefend, you're ready.
Yeah.
So when the time comes todefend, you're ready.
You know it.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
It's drenched in your mind.
All my cousins and brothers,them guys are all going to be
listening to this.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
They're going to be like he just threw us under the
bus.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
No, I'd go to war with them dudes, that's my boys.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I'm just saying to the general men in my life and
at Red Oak and in the snowboardcommunity hey, we can take a
breath.
I don't think it's a time forwar here to take up arms.
It's a time to remember whatTertullian said in the first
century the blood of the martyrsis the seed of the church.
Second century, when people arepersecuted for the name of
Jesus, we have an opportunity touse that persecution for gospel
(24:17):
leverage.
So let's turn our attention tothe confidence.
We have an opportunity to usethat persecution for gospel
leverage.
So let's turn our attention tothe confidence we have in Christ
and be ready to fight when thetime comes.
I'd fight to defend thepowerless or the weak, but
there's a time for that andthere's a time to point people
to Jesus.
The hope that we have Peter says.
Peter, who was persecuted andultimately martyred, said always
(24:38):
be ready to give an answer tothose who ask for the hope that
is in you.
And the hope that we have isthe hope that Charlie had, which
is that Christ is Lord and he'sestablishing a kingdom where
this is, this nonsense ain'tgoing to be going on Right.
It ain't going to be happening,yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah for sure.
No-transcript.
(25:19):
Give ear to my words, o Lord.
Consider my groaning.
Give attention to the sound ofmy cry, my King and my God, for
to you do I pray, o Lord, in themorning.
You hear my voice.
In the morning, I prepare asacrifice for you and watch, for
you are not a God who delightsin wickedness.
Evil may not dwell with you.
(25:40):
The boastful shall not standbefore your eyes.
You hate all evildoers.
You destroy those who speaklies.
The Lord abhors thebloodthirsty and deceitful man.
But I, through the abundance ofyour steadfast love, will enter
your house.
Amen.
I will bow down towards yourholy temple in the fear of you.
Lead me, o Lord, in yourrighteousness, because of my
(26:03):
enemies.
Make your way straight beforeme, for there is no truth in
their mouth.
Their inmost self isdestruction.
Their throat is an open grave.
They flatter with their tongue.
Make them bear their guilt, oGod.
Let them fall by their owncounsels Because of the
abundance of theirtransgressions.
Cast them out, for they haverebelled against you.
(26:23):
But let all who take refuge inyou rejoice.
Let them ever sing for joy andspread your protection over them
.
That those who love your namemay exalt in you, for you bless
the righteous O Lord, you coverhim with favor as with a shield.
For you bless the righteous OLord, you cover him with favor
as with a shield.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
But I just think that has been good for me to hear
and to read and to dwell on it'shope in scripture.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Yes, so much of it.
You open the word of.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
God and you read something like that and it just
puts your soul at rest.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I appreciate what you said.
I hope people take it to heart.
Get off your social media feed.
Open word of god, get quiet,get still before the lord.
Go sit down under your favoritetree in your yard or on your
porch, or jump in the car and goto your favorite spot where
where it's quiet you'reunplugged.
Leave your phone at the house.
Open god's word.
(27:15):
Spend an hour just meditate onscripture, letting it saturate
and drench your mind, and andfind that peace that the Lord
alone can provide.
Yes, and and.
Uh, yeah, I appreciate that alot.
All right, Well, I hope this isa some source of encouragement
for folks and we'll be backMonday with a normal, normal
(27:37):
episode.
So, you guys, have a greatweekend.
Keep your eyes on Jesus, Keepyour hand on the plow.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Thanks for listening to no Sanity Required.
Please take a moment tosubscribe and leave a rating.
It really helps.
Visit us at SWOutfitterscom tosee all of our programming and
resources, and we'll see younext week on no Sanity Required.
Hey, we're going to talk for a few minutes this
morning about recent events andspecifically about, uh uh,
assassination and murder ofCharlie Kirk, and this coming on
the heels of the brutal murderof an innocent young lady, the
Ukrainian young lady who wasmurdered on a on a city transit
(00:20):
in Charlotte.
And before we get into this, Ijust want to say the one thing
that has come out in the lastfew days.
I wasn't super familiar withCharlie Kirk.
I mean, I had watched soundbites and clips but I never
really followed Turning Point indepth.
But I just knew I resonatedwith him.
You know, like when I wouldhear him talk I would think, man
(00:42):
, this guy makes a lot of senseespecially to be such a young
dude with him.
You know, like when I would hearhim talk I would think, man,
this guy makes a lot of sense,especially to be such a young
dude and um, but I I didn't.
I have listened to more of himin the last 48 hours than I ever
had.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I think that's the case for most people yeah, and
what I've?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
what has been shocking to me is how open he
was to discourse, publicdialogue, and you know he would
always operate in the publicsquare.
I was talking to Tuck lastnight and Tuck said man, he's
slated to come to Virginia Techin two weeks and do, and you
know he was going to be at Tech,but he would go into the public
square and he would.
(01:15):
he would have open discoursewith people that disagreed with
him and if the crowd waspredominantly conservative or
from his viewpoint, he wouldtell the crowd please be quiet
and let this be respectful, letthis person talk, and so I I
appreciate that approach that hetook and and uh, and I don't
(01:35):
think anybody can say that heyou know that he was guilty of
hate speech or you know creating, creating arguments or fights
just for the sake of it.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
He was a person who was interested in free speech
and discourse and sitting downwith people that you had
opposing views with and talkingthrough things and was so good
at articulating and, like yousaid, it just made so much sense
when you listened to him.
And one thing that I reallyappreciated of him was he fought
(02:08):
for the truth and ultimately, I.
We talked about this later inthe episode, but that's what
killed him.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, it killed him.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
And, uh, we always say here at Snowbird the most
loving thing I think Brody saysthis a lot the most loving thing
you can do to a person is sharethe truth with them.
So we're kind of talking.
That's something that we candefinitely take away from.
(02:39):
All of this is just his way todiscuss peaceably with people of
such differing opinions, theway he just was able to respect
their thoughts but also sharethe truth with them.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
So yep.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Welcome to no Sanity Required from the Ministry of
Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters.
A podcast about the Bible,culture and stories from around
the globe from around the globe.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I want us to talk about just kind of the state of
what's going on right now.
This past week there was themurder of a Ukrainian refugee.
It didn't happen this past weekbut it became headline news
this past week because it seemslike when it happened a few
weeks ago it then was just kindof swept under the rug.
It happened in the city ofCharlotte, which is here in our
(03:29):
state, which is not known askind of a crazy place of crime.
It's not Chicago, it's not LasVegas, but Little, and I have
been talking about this.
We're already feeling thestress and strain of of that
situation.
And then the incident withCharlie Kirk happened.
And I've in my life, I've livedthrough a few monumental things
(03:53):
historically.
You know like I remember when Iwas a kid people talk about
they remember where they werewhen Kennedy got shot, or the
older people when I was a childremembered, uh, pearl Harbor,
december, december 7, 1941, whenAmerica got attacked by the
Japanese Empire.
And then I remember.
The first thing I remember as akid was when I was in fourth
(04:16):
grade the attemptedassassination of Ronald Reagan.
I can remember getting on theschool bus and something I
remember vividly from that.
I remember getting on theschool bus and something I
remember vividly from that.
I remember getting on theschool bus and kids saying if
the guy killed Reagan, if Reagandies, they should give this guy
an award.
And instantly there was thislet's celebrate this person
(04:37):
because of what he's done to theperson that we oppose
politically.
And when this stuff happenedthis past week, a couple of days
ago, with Charlie Kirk, it waslike instantly people were
saying similar stuff.
And so you realize it's notjust that we live in a world of
darkness, it's just chaotic.
(04:58):
It's dark, it's chaotic, and soI want to before.
I want you to kind of leavethis conversation, jb, but I
want to say this first, to setit up, jesus gave instruction in
mark 13 and matthew 24.
Jesus gave instruction, what'scalled the olivet discourse, and
in that instruction a lot ofpeople take those two passages
(05:21):
and they they think that thosetwo passages apply to the end
times.
I don't hold to that.
I believe there are aspects ofthose passages that are pointing
to end times and there areaspects of those passages that
are pointing to things thatwould happen in the time of
Christ.
And what he promised is he said, this generation is not going
(05:42):
to pass until there's conflict,rumors of war, wars, catastrophe
.
People are going to rise upagainst each other, and he
paints this picture of greatpersecution against the church
of Jesus.
And from the time of Christuntil today, there's always been
(06:03):
persecution against Christians,and when you speak out for
truth, there's going to bepersecution for that, and so we
shouldn't be surprised whenthings like this happen.
It's still shocking, but welive in a world where the truth
will always be under attack, andI think I was talking to Austin
yesterday.
What's hard to process andwhat's disorienting is when you
(06:23):
have professing Christiansspeaking out saying things like
well, he asked for this or hedidn't ask for this.
Yeah, not asked to be murderedin the public square.
That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It's asinine.
It's like you don't have toagree with this guy on all of
his viewpoints, but, man, heloved the Lord, I believe,
believe and made a very clearand articulate expression of his
faith in jesus and he gotkilled for it.
Ultimately, that's why he died,yeah, I think, and so we just
just take a few minutes here andand give thoughts, answer
(06:58):
questions that I think from yourgeneration.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I'd like to hear it from your perspective and I'll
do my best to kind of shed lighton on questions that you think
might be asked yeah, um, I justalso want to clarify and you did
a great job like I don't wantthis episode to just dwell on
the evil and the horrible thingsthat have happened this week,
and that's kind of what startedthis conversation.
(07:21):
As I've been just prayingthrough this and working through
it, I've just kind of been, Iguess, in the mindset of like,
okay, now that this has happened, like what can we focus on?
And like what should thisencourage us to focus on?
And, yes, obviously, like stillmourning and grieving the loss,
like so much has happened inthe past couple of weeks that
(07:43):
have just been horrific andterrible.
But I think the biggest thingstep number one, I think for me,
when all this happened, I thinkI spent like an hour and a half
just like scrolling andsearching and, you know, trying
to figure out what happened Ishe okay, is he going to make it,
do they have the guy andwhatever.
And then, like immediatelyfollowing that, I just remember
(08:06):
being like why did this happen?
Like why did this happen?
And just kind of started to godown a path of like I don't
understand, like I know that Godis sovereign, but why would
this happen?
And I think that's very easy tofall into those questions of
anything tragic happens on apublic stage or in your personal
life, whatever, and I thinkthat just reminded me.
(08:29):
Okay, I need to get inscripture, I need to get off
social media, and I think thatwould be helpful for so many
people, because so many peoplejust have so many strong
opinions and even, like you weresaying, I've seen a lot of
people start to make mockery ofhis death, of how things should
be handled, whatever, and Ithink that is not helping, if
(08:50):
I'm honest, and so I would justencourage those who are
listening like get in scripture.
I like, probably for that firstday after Charlie's death was
announced, I was just feelinglike blah, like it was just
super weird.
I went to a Braves game with myparents and was just kind of
sitting there and was like I wasjust feeling like blah, like it
was just super weird.
I went to a Braves game with myparents and was just kind of
sitting there and was like whatis going on?
And it wasn't until later thatevening that I, you know, got in
(09:12):
scripture and journaled andprayed, and then that's kind of
where all of these things kindof the Lord placed on my heart
and we'll get into that.
But I just kind of wanted toopen with that of like take a
second and get off social mediaand stop watching videos and
stop like it's not helping, youknow.
(09:35):
But kind of what I mentionedearlier is kind of like what we
can focus on.
Like I said, I don't just wantto dwell on this evil that has
happened and, like you said,like I think for me this was
eyeopening of like evil is inthe world.
It always has been in the worldand so when you ask yourself
that question why did thishappen?
Or maybe why did God allow thisto happen I quickly was humbled
(09:58):
and was like I don't have ananswer and I never will have an
answer besides, like we live ina fallen world and it's riddled
with sin and that is why evilthings happen you know, and so
that kind of um, I've just beenpraying and journaling through,
um, like what we should befocusing on and what we can be
focusing on, and ultimately Iwant this episode to be a bit of
(10:21):
an encouragement.
Um, and weirdly enough, in thistime of like grief and craziness
and sadness, I have felt likethis pocket of peace and pocket
of like encouragement, and sothat's kind of what I'm going to
go through.
I feel like I'm just talking incircles, but that's good.
Um, one of the main things thatI first jotted down.
(10:44):
I have a few bullet points ofwhat we can focus on, and the
first one is eternity.
I think I mentioned this on anepisode a few months ago.
I had a conversation with mybrother-in-law a while back
about just like secular beliefs,or maybe what different
political parties believe, andlike so crazy that they're just
(11:04):
so passionate about.
Like you're right, I'm wrong,whatever.
And he said, for those whodon't know Christ, like this is
their eternity, like this worldis all that they have.
So, of course, they're going tofight so hard to make this
amendment or to make this law orwhatever, and they're going to
fight so hard to make sure theirpoint is correct quote unquote.
(11:24):
And I think that is like supereyeopening for me as well.
It's like, as believers, weknow we don't belong here, like
we know, um, that this isn't it,this isn't all we have been
promised, and like, if anything,everything that's happened
should just make us like longfor eternity, for home.
You know, and I also thinkthat's like it makes me sad,
(11:48):
like that people who don't knowchrist are so hopeless that they
feel the need to rationalizewith these horrific, these
horrific, horrific actions ofviolence.
Um, and so I think that, like,as believers, we can truly just
reflect and thank the Lord, likethis isn't our home and we have
so much more you know to lookfor and long for.
(12:11):
Um, and then that also kind ofleads me into God's sovereignty.
Um, like I said, like when thisfirst happened I was praying
through.
I was like Lord, I know thatyou're sovereign and I trust
that you're sovereign.
But like it's just so hardsometimes to wrap your mind
around that you know.
And so even just prayingthrough that and even looking
(12:32):
back in Old Testament and allthroughout scripture, like you
said, there's always been evilin the world and God has
remained Lord and King andvictorious.
And like scripture is so clearthat, like the world hates God,
the world hates truth.
Like John 15, 18 maybe says,like if the world persecuted me,
(12:56):
it will persecute you.
If the world hated me, likejust know, or if the world hates
you, just know it hated mefirst.
And so just kind of lookingback at those all throughout
scripture of, like man, this isnot the first time something
like this has happened and it'snot the last time unfortunately,
and just really relying andtrusting and sitting in the fact
that, like through all of this,the Lord is sovereign and will
(13:18):
continue to be sovereign.
Sitting in the fact that, likethrough all of this, the Lord is
sovereign and will continue tobe sovereign.
And then also, for some reason,luke 23, where Jesus is on the
cross and he says, father,forgive them, like they don't
know what they've done.
I don't know why that verse hasjust been in my head.
(13:38):
By no means am I trying to takescripture and morph it and
apply it to a situation thatdoesn't apply, but I think for
me that verse has just been inthe moment that Christ died and
there was so much arguing and somuch disunity.
In that moment he was still sograceful and merciful and in a
(14:01):
weird way, like that gives me somuch encouragement and
obviously, as a believer, weshould strive and desire to look
more like Christ and to actmore like Christ.
And I think in that moment Idon't know it just gives me so
much encouragement of like hedid not step back.
He did not, he was not defeated, like he wasn't passive, but he
(14:26):
was still so merciful and sogracious and so loving towards
people that you know were socorrupt and stuff, and so I
think I don't know why, likeother than the fact that the
Lord placed that in my mind andin my heart.
So, even though, like I just seeso much arguing and stuff on
social media, which I agree,like we do not need to be
(14:48):
passive, but also like he was sograceful, gracious and caring
and compassionate in the mostlike heated time, you know, and
so I think that's justencouraging to me, one for me to
look to and try to replicate,but two, also like so
encouraging that we serve theGod who is so strong, victorious
(15:09):
, but also so kind andcompassionate and gracious, and
so that kind of just wraps uplike overall, just reflecting on
Christ and the personhood ofChrist, the life, death and
resurrection of Christ.
And I know that's like a lot oftimes I can almost try to look
past that and be like, no,what's the deeper?
Like I need something deeper.
(15:29):
No, that's it, that is it, youknow, like Christ was persecuted
, Christ was killed, um, andChrist rose, like he's
victorious and because of that,as believers, we're victorious,
we can live and walk in that.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I think that's all good.
A couple of thoughts.
One, the writer of Ecclesiastessays that there's a time for
everything, a time and a seasonfor everything.
And he says there's a time forwar and there's a time for peace
.
And as believers, there aretimes where we're called to
(16:08):
fight or to defend the weak orto fight against evil.
I believe in history there aretimes where Christians can agree
that fighting was the rightthing to do.
Now there's going to bedisagreements on when and what
that looks like.
If you take someone who's apacifist, they're going to say
(16:29):
we should never fight, we shouldjust trust God.
And then you take someone who'sa Christian nationalist,
they're going to say we shouldtake up arms and create a
Christian state.
I mean, that's not.
That's a generalization of whatchristian nationalism is.
That's not fair to to saythat's what christian
nationalists believe, but anextreme view of that, where we
(16:50):
see christianity as this sort ofmilitant march which is what
happened under the latter partof the roman empire, where it
became governmentally controlledchristianity like we're all
going to be Christian and thatdoesn't.
That doesn't seem biblical.
Passivism doesn't seem biblicaland it all comes down to that
verse in Ecclesiastes that saysthere's a time to fight and
(17:10):
there's a time for peace.
Jesus gives us some context toit.
He says in John 14, um, let notyour hearts be troubled.
So in a time like this, jesuswould say to us hey, don't let
your heart be troubled, neitherlet it be afraid, because in my
Father's house there's security.
(17:31):
That's not the word he uses,but he's saying there's a place
where this doesn't happen.
And I go to prepare a place foryou there and you're going to
come to me there.
I'm going to go before youprepare this place.
You're going to come.
Charlie Kirk has entered intothat.
You know I texted.
All the men in my family are ina text thread, a text group,
and I love those guys.
(17:52):
They're they're kind of someknuckle dragon.
You know good old boys and andyou know they're ready to take
up arms and let's go.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
And I love it.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I don't want them to not be like, yeah, that's how
they are, but um and, andthey're patriots.
And I told, I texted them theother day and I said, hey, I'm
bummed by this, but I believeCharlie Kirk was a believer,
which isn't, you know,conversation for maybe another
time.
But I believe he made it clearthat he embraced and accepted
(18:21):
the gospel and I've heard himgive his testimony and his
account.
And I texted all the guys in myfamily in that thread and said,
hey, this is hard and I hate it,but he's entered his reward,
he's entered his rest, he'sreceived his reward.
He has now received the rewardof his suffering and he's gone
to a place that will one day go.
(18:42):
And I think the lesson we learnis wake up every morning
prepared to die.
You don't know what's going tobe your last day, and every
single day I want to wake up,put on the whole armor of God,
live my life wearing thebreastplate of righteousness,
(19:03):
carrying the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God.
Get up every day, drench yourmind in scripture, drench your
heart in the grace of the Lord,embrace the responsibility of
the gospel and go, live it outand know this might be your last
day, and I don't want to die ona day where I'm not doing that
Right.
(19:23):
And so he.
I think that's a perspective wecan take from this and and we
can thank him for for that heexampled for us how to die Well,
cause we're all going to die.
I want to die Well.
I want to finish my race withmy hand gripping the plow, my
other hand gripping the sword,and that's the way I want to go
see Jesus.
And so there's a time for war,there's a time for peace.
(19:43):
Right now it's probably not thetime for war, but it's also
back to what you said when Jesusprayed Father, forgive them.
I think there is a time whereJesus would say when someone
persecutes, you embrace thatpersecution, and we may be
(20:03):
seeing a shift in our culture,whereas Christians, we're going
to see an increase inpersecution.
That may happen.
And I would just say to folksthat lean more aggressively
towards a nationalistic idea ofChristianity, I would say this
that throughout history, if youtake every century, in 21
(20:25):
centuries of Christianity 20plus centuries of Christianity
the majority of the church hasfaced persecution for their
faith.
I mean, of the 12 apostles ofof Christ take Judas out the
other 11 were all persecuted.
At least 10 of them died fortheir faith.
(20:46):
John was imprisoned.
Uh, there was great persecutionin the church Then.
There's great persecution inthe church today.
And the other thing I would sayis the capital C church is not
just the American church, it'sthe African church, the Asian
church, the South Americanchurch, and when you take the
global church of Jesus, theamount of persecution is great.
(21:09):
I mean, christians arepersecuted, and so we wake up
each day knowing I need to puton the armor of God and be ready
to proclaim the truth and lovemy enemy and do good to those
that persecute me and have themindset of Christ in that, and
when there is a time to fight,whether that's through
legislation or to defend theweak, I would say when someone
(21:30):
says, well, when should youfight?
Well, I'll give you a workingexample.
People have often asked atSnowbird why we take security to
the extreme.
We take it because we have wehave a very aggressive security
protocol for our worshipservices.
A lot of churches have someguys carrying pistols that are
kind of walking around.
We have the most aggressivesecurity protocol I've ever seen
(21:50):
.
We have multiple long gunsaround the building.
We have a gated securitycheckpoint.
People have to come throughWithin the building when we're
having a worship service.
We have multiple long guns instrategic positions and we have
anywhere from six to 10 peoplecarrying handguns placed
(22:11):
throughout the building and wehave a plan for how we're going
to react and we drill it and wetrain it and we practice it.
We have a protocol.
So there is a time to fight.
And I will tell you this if youattend an event at Snowbird
Wilderness Outfitters as astudent, I would say this to
parents we will kill to protectyour child.
There's a time to fight right.
There's a time to kill andthere's a time to die.
(22:33):
And for for Charlie Kirk, hiswas a peaceful approach.
He used he used the publicsquare to speak truth and to
accept the consequences, causemore than once now we've all
seen videos in the last few daysof him saying I want to, I want
when I die, I want to be knownas a guy who had courage in his
faith.
And he did that and he showedthat.
(22:55):
So let's learn from it.
Let's honor him by by beingable to articulate the gospel
and keep your composure.
Don't freak out.
Those dudes who I love, thatare my family members.
They freak out when somebodygoes on social media and says
something that's contrary towhat they believe.
It's okay.
People are going to not believewhat we believe and they're
going to persecute us for it.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
That's all right, that's fine, that's good.
No, what we?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
believe and they're going to persecute us for it.
That's all right, that's fine.
That's good yeah, no worries,the truth will set you free.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
And the truth is the gospel, and so let's spend our
energy proclaiming the gospel ofJesus and knowing the gospel.
And knowing the gospel.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Teaching it to yourself, preaching it to
yourself?
Yeah.
So when the time comes todefend, you're ready.
Yeah.
So when the time comes todefend, you're ready.
You know it.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
It's drenched in your mind.
All my cousins and brothers,them guys are all going to be
listening to this.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
They're going to be like he just threw us under the
bus.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
No, I'd go to war with them dudes, that's my boys.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I'm just saying to the general men in my life and
at Red Oak and in the snowboardcommunity hey, we can take a
breath.
I don't think it's a time forwar here to take up arms.
It's a time to remember whatTertullian said in the first
century the blood of the martyrsis the seed of the church.
Second century, when people arepersecuted for the name of
Jesus, we have an opportunity touse that persecution for gospel
(24:17):
leverage.
So let's turn our attention tothe confidence.
We have an opportunity to usethat persecution for gospel
leverage.
So let's turn our attention tothe confidence we have in Christ
and be ready to fight when thetime comes.
I'd fight to defend thepowerless or the weak, but
there's a time for that andthere's a time to point people
to Jesus.
The hope that we have Peter says.
Peter, who was persecuted andultimately martyred, said always
(24:38):
be ready to give an answer tothose who ask for the hope that
is in you.
And the hope that we have isthe hope that Charlie had, which
is that Christ is Lord and he'sestablishing a kingdom where
this is, this nonsense ain'tgoing to be going on Right.
It ain't going to be happening,yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah for sure.
No-transcript.
(25:19):
Give ear to my words, o Lord.
Consider my groaning.
Give attention to the sound ofmy cry, my King and my God, for
to you do I pray, o Lord, in themorning.
You hear my voice.
In the morning, I prepare asacrifice for you and watch, for
you are not a God who delightsin wickedness.
Evil may not dwell with you.
(25:40):
The boastful shall not standbefore your eyes.
You hate all evildoers.
You destroy those who speaklies.
The Lord abhors thebloodthirsty and deceitful man.
But I, through the abundance ofyour steadfast love, will enter
your house.
Amen.
I will bow down towards yourholy temple in the fear of you.
Lead me, o Lord, in yourrighteousness, because of my
(26:03):
enemies.
Make your way straight beforeme, for there is no truth in
their mouth.
Their inmost self isdestruction.
Their throat is an open grave.
They flatter with their tongue.
Make them bear their guilt, oGod.
Let them fall by their owncounsels Because of the
abundance of theirtransgressions.
Cast them out, for they haverebelled against you.
(26:23):
But let all who take refuge inyou rejoice.
Let them ever sing for joy andspread your protection over them
.
That those who love your namemay exalt in you, for you bless
the righteous O Lord, you coverhim with favor as with a shield.
For you bless the righteous OLord, you cover him with favor
as with a shield.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
But I just think that has been good for me to hear
and to read and to dwell on it'shope in scripture.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Yes, so much of it.
You open the word of.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
God and you read something like that and it just
puts your soul at rest.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I appreciate what you said.
I hope people take it to heart.
Get off your social media feed.
Open word of god, get quiet,get still before the lord.
Go sit down under your favoritetree in your yard or on your
porch, or jump in the car and goto your favorite spot where
where it's quiet you'reunplugged.
Leave your phone at the house.
Open god's word.
(27:15):
Spend an hour just meditate onscripture, letting it saturate
and drench your mind, and andfind that peace that the Lord
alone can provide.
Yes, and and.
Uh, yeah, I appreciate that alot.
All right, Well, I hope this isa some source of encouragement
for folks and we'll be backMonday with a normal, normal
(27:37):
episode.
So, you guys, have a greatweekend.
Keep your eyes on Jesus, Keepyour hand on the plow.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Thanks for listening to no Sanity Required.
Please take a moment tosubscribe and leave a rating.
It really helps.
Visit us at SWOutfitterscom tosee all of our programming and
resources, and we'll see younext week on no Sanity Required.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.