The Porta Potty Princess | Life as a Camp Kid

What’s it like to grow up where summer camp is home and adventure is part of everyday life? In this episode, Brody sits down with his daughter Lailee to reflect on her unique childhood as a “Snowbird kid” and pastor’s daughter. From cliff-jumping and crawdad villages to cleaning porta-potties and choosing mission trips over Disney vacations, Lailee shares stories that are both wild and refreshingly normal.

She also opens up about how faith, family, and a love for service shaped her perspective—on sports, identity, and life. This candid conversation offers insight into raising kids with purpose, resilience, and strong values in a world full of pressure.

Interview with Brody and Little: 30 Years of Marriage, Ministry, And Parenting

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Before me and Layla get into this conversation, we
have a very important,prestigious guest who's very
prolific in the YouTube world.
Y'all may have heard of DJHolloway.
How can people find you?

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Just search up DJ Holloway no spaces.
And yeah, Does it on YouTube,On YouTube.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Okay, you got some good content and yeah, that's it
.
On YouTube.
On YouTube.
Okay, you got some good content.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
A lot what's your latest LP?

Speaker 1 (00:30):
What's that song that Laylee's been singing?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Give Me Grace is the song.
Give Me Grace.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
It's the story of a guy that goes to prison.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
It first starts with Pull it For Real.
He's walking, some guys jumphim.
He takes them out.
A few years later he ends up injail.
Yeah, mm-hmm and yeah.
It's just kind of like livingout on the streets, yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
I think it's a great song.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Haley can sing the whole.
Thing.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Mm-hmm, yeah, I think I got it.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Mm-hmm, yeah, I think I got it, mm-hmm yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Mm-hmm, I like that line.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
I didn't mean to kill that guy, but I meant it.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
A lot of people have been talking about that line.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, it's a good line, it's a solid line.
Come on, so tell me so, me andLaila, we're going to do an
episode.
So you've been on NSR beforeyes, many times.
People are very familiar withyou.
I think something.
What do you think is somethingthat you would want people to

(01:33):
know about living at SWO, beingmy little son, being in our
family, growing up at SWO, beingable to go camp you know you go
to camp every day when it'ssummertime and, uh, during the
school year.
We've talked about where you goto school on other episodes,
but having weekend things,retreats and stuff, what's

(01:55):
something that you think wouldbe interesting for people to
know about your life as asnowbird guy that maybe they
wouldn't think about?

Speaker 2 (02:01):
I'm good at gaga ball .

Speaker 1 (02:03):
You're good at Gaga Ball Solid information Really
good to get on.
Do people ever ask you how yougot so good at Gaga Ball?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Not really, are they impressed though.
Really impressed.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, are you impressed?

Speaker 2 (02:19):
No, I know I can do it.
Yeah, I know I can do it.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
I feel like I never see you in the Gaga Ball pit.
It's confidence I can do it.
Yeah, I know I can do it.
I feel like I never see you inthe goggle ball pit.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Oh, I today I took out three people, took out three
people.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Moses does not need confidence, because he has
plenty.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
Endless supply.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
I don't get it.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
You got plenty.
What do you ever have?
People ask you questions likeman, what's it like living here?
Yeah, today somebody asked methat and I said, it's pretty fun
.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
I get to come here a lot, see all my friends play a
lot of gaga ball, meet a lot ofnew campers, yeah, just stuff
like that.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
And on the wrecks, what's your favorite wreck as a
camp?

Speaker 2 (03:05):
kid.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Paintball, yeah, and you like the pool.
And the pool, and the pool yeah, what are your thoughts on
going down to Nantahala River?

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Cold and I'm not really.
I don't do it a lot.
That's not your main thing, Notmy main thing.
Too cold, yes.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
I see you got a new fade.
That, yes, I see you got a newfade.
That's a good-looking haircut.
Yes, what about?
Is there other than an inhaler?
Is there a favorite off-campusrec?

Speaker 2 (03:32):
I would say laser tag .
That's what I thought.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
So laser tag.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Laser tag is the main thing, yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
That makes sense.
Laser tag off-site, which isNorth Campus, and Paintball Main
Campus, because you enjoy likewhat do you want to be when?
You grow up A.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
YouTuber Alright Yep A cop.
I wonder how many kids wouldanswer that question the exact
same way.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Probably too many, probably a huge majority.
Yeah, you've talked a lot aboutthat.
You want to be a cop yeah wewent and introduced you to
sheriff and visited thesheriff's office, into jail and
everything a lot yeah yeah, sothat's what I was getting at.
Is that's probably why you likepaintball and laser tag.
You like that kind of action.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yes, and we shoot real guns.
Youtube could be a side hustle.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, YouTube be the side hustle.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yes, yes, yeah, youtube will be the side hustle.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
Okay, you got.
Anything else you want to sayto the folks?

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Go subscribe to DJ Holloway.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Go subscribe to.
Dj Subscribe.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
Well, you almost have 500 subscribers.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, but I lost a subscriber today.
Yep, okay, thanks for having meon.
You're welcome.
Thank you, my time is up.

Speaker 4 (05:01):
Welcome to no Sanity Required from the Ministry of
Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters.
A podcast about the Bible,culture and stories from around
the globe.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
JB last week and this week, two weeks in a row, I've
had so many people say how muchthey love your input on the
podcast.
So, thank y'all.
Everybody's listening, for welove getting feedback.
And I don't know, you know,before we get into this, I've
got lately with me, um, I got mydaughter lately with me today

(05:34):
and I don't know, um, I don'tknow how many people say to me
every week at JB's, right offthe screen.
So, chris and Sam, what's thefeedback you get on the like?
We have these diagnostics that,oh, we get X thousands of
downloads a week.
But I have, I have a hundredconversations a week.
People come in here talkingabout NSR, right here where the

(05:56):
studio is.
We, um, if you walk behind thecameras and there's a door over
here and we've, that's where westore, um, like volleyballs,
basketballs.
So there was a door over hereand that's where we store, like
volleyballs, basketballs.
So there was a church youthgroup and these kids were
playing.
They were like just bumping.
You know, you just stand in acircle and bump and set they're
all standing there and it waslike the youth pastor, a couple
dads, and the ball went over thefence behind the Super Coupe

(06:18):
into the cornfield.
Well, you can't get it.
Like, if you're going to go tothat cornfield you have to go
quarter mile to the gate, aquarter mile to the road, a mile
around, two miles around to thefarm road.
You know it's like you're notgoing to get that ball, yeah.
So I was like it'll be fine,they'll throw it back over when
they're next time they're in thefield plowing or whatever.

(06:39):
And so I was like, come on,we'll go.
And it's like two eighth gradegirls.
And I said, come on, we'll goget another volleyball.
They're like what?
Because I just happened to bewalking by, we walked through
here and they went.
Oh, my goodness, is this whereNSR Like these two eighth grade
girls are like NSR listeners?
And I was like yeah, and Ithought afterwards I should have

(07:00):
got a picture with them orsomething.
They would have loved that, youknow.
Uh, when we got them avolleyball and then they were
happy, yeah, so Lord's blessingit and lots of people are
listening and we're grateful forthat.
One of the things that I just Iasked lately to come on I'm
always hesitant about, nothesitant.
I don't bring my kids andfamily on a ton, cause I it's

(07:27):
not like while since you guysgot to hear from dj holloway,
aka mad dog holloway, aka mosesdorsey holloway, known most
affectionately as mo um, as yousee, he's not lacking no
self-confidence.
I mean, he thinks, he thinkshave you noticed the most recent
thing is he thinks all girlslike him.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
Oh yeah, he was flirting it up with my campers
week one and I said no, sir, Iwill clock you in a second.
And he's like, because you knowhe's also just very like,
personable and great personality.
So it's like I think to himsometimes, it's like oh, they're
just my friends or whatever,but he's also not naive, so I

(08:09):
know he knows what he's doing uh, yeah, he does, because he'll
say some things for you like ohyeah, that's a public school
talking.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
Yeah, he learned some stuff in the hallways.
Yep, yeah, what I want to dotoday is I want to get into, I
want to talk about.
I talked to so many, I don'tknow if you have this experience
.
Um, do you talk to pastor'skids at camp much?
Have you had some conversations?

Speaker 3 (08:32):
um, I've had a couple campers that will talk to me
about it.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeah, but not just on the regular of like coming up
to me random just yeah, in theflow of camp, like I mean every
I would say almost every groupthat comes, there's a pastor's
kid in the group, because it'seither the youth pastor's kid or
senior pastor's kid or anassociate pastor.
I have that conversation a lot,so I thought it'd be cool to
talk a little bit about yourexperience as a, as a pastor's

(09:00):
daughter.
And then also it's uniquebecause it's layered, because
you're, you're a pastor'sdaughter and but then you're
also you grew up a snowbird kid.
You're you're what I would callfirst wave snowbird kid.
I mean you and your olderbrother and sister, you were the
three snowbird kids.
That was it.
Now, when people show up here,I mean mean there's 50.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
Yeah, I had a hard time keeping up.
Yeah, keeping up with them,it's hard.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
And then you know, and then everyone sort of ends
up in like smaller groups, likefriend groups based on their
kids' ages and stuff.
But I mean, when you're growingup it was just well.
First it was just the three ofy'all.
The Potters were here for aseason.
They had a daughter that wasbetween you and Kilby's age

(09:48):
Closer to Kilby's age, though.
Yeah, the Joneses moved here in2013, so you were eight years
old Like eight.
Yeah, and then it was you andEmma became best friends.
So just a unique environment togrow up in, to go from being
one of the three only kids hereto now you two years ago you

(10:10):
were like the oldest of all thesnowbird kids as you were
finishing high school, so thatperspective might be fun, yeah,
and then just let's just havesome fun with it.
Like some funny stories, somememorable moments, some family
traditions that are connected tocamp, like I want, want.
I thought it'd be cool to talkabout spillway cliff jumping on
the lake yeah I'll tell onestory to start the conversation

(10:33):
about laylee.
Laylee is like probably one ofthe most fearless.
You're probably um.
You and tucker are both veryfearless and kilby is too, but
you're fearless in the adventuresense, like heights and yeah,
and I think all three of y'allwere like I don't I feel like
kilby is two and tuck yeahhonestly but not as much as you

(10:57):
like.
I've watched laylee jump offstuff that when I was a 20 year
old dude I'd have been like,okay, let's go.
And she's like whoop, nohesitation, so you love cliff
jumping?
Yes, it's literally like.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
I love doing that.
Now, yeah, like the highest oneI did, I probably won't do it
again because it just hurts, butit's still fun.
It's fun.
I just had to do the one at thespillway because I've seen so
many people do it.
I think it's about 65 feet.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
The upper spillway.
Oh, that's high.
I've got that video on my phone.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
But that one is so fun because you fall for so long
.
But no matter how good you areat bracing yourself, it just
hurts.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
It rattles every bone in your body.
Yeah, and it's like 65 feet andme and mama were last night
right at bedtime.
I I'd come in and lights wereout.
It's probably one in themorning and she's sitting there
with her phone on watching thatpeople doing death dives, yes.
So I was like, oh, you'rewatching death dives and I jump
it.
I just got a shower, I jump inthe bed and I like for 20

(12:01):
minutes it's crazy we'rewatching people and a dude
jumped 109 feet, spiraled likehave you seen where they fold?
And then they yeah, go in likethis.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
That is wild.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
So my favorite Laylee cliff jumping story.
Laylee was about one of thosedudes when I talk trash to those
guys.
What were you?
Probably 11?
.
Yeah, I think so 11 or 12,something like that of those
guys how old?

Speaker 3 (12:25):
were you probably 11?

Speaker 1 (12:25):
yeah, I think so.
11 or 12, something like that.
No more than 12, yeah, andmaybe 10 somewhere in that range
, yeah, probably 10 or 11.
So we go up to this.
There's a place on nana halelake.
We don't do this as a campwreck.
There's some things that we dothat are not camp wrecks but
they're camp connected and we'lltake, sometimes, friends and
guests out.
So we get in, we get in theboat, we go out to this cliff,
this cliff, depending on howfull the lake is, because they,

(12:48):
the lake, will be drawn downafter summer, and that cliff,
when the lake's full, thatcliffs maybe 30 feet and then,
and as they start going down, itcould get to 50 feet.
You know so, and I think that atthat time it was about 40 feet
yeah so we pull up, here's my 10, 11 year old little girl and I

(13:08):
mean, and Laylee is my spiritanimal, like like she just is,
she's like you know, um, everykid's different.
Laylee's the one that'sprobably most like me, as people
say, you're like me and so likeI think we're on the same
wavelength in the way we think.
And so we pull up and laylee,little 10, 11 year old laylee,

(13:30):
just wants to go jump off thecliff.
And so we get there and there'sa boat and there's about six
dudes that are all probably likecollege guys or college age,
and they're trying to get thenerve to jump.
And it's sketchy, cause it's notlike a, a doc, I mean it's
you're in the woods and you gotto kind of clear out of the

(13:52):
trees and then jump over somerocks and then you go down and
hit.
And these guys were like tryingto get the nerve up.
And I knew what Layla wasthinking.
I knew already she wants to getup there and jump before them,
just to make them look likedummies.
And so we pull up.

(14:12):
Before I get the boat sloweddown, she, she dives and starts
swimming.
Her little, her little teenyself and she swims over there
and she starts climbing.
There's a little rope and yougot to go up this rock and she's
climbing, climbing, climbing,and then from the boat, so I'll
back the boat up and then whenyou're watching a person climb
up, they disappear.
You kind of go back into thewoods and then you pop back out
up on the cliff and so lately,and then I see her little bitty

(14:35):
head just over the edge, likethis, and all these dudes are
standing right on the edge.
They're like oh gosh, oh gosh,I don't know, I, I don't know.
And I can see her little bittyhead sticking up and I said, hey
, boys, if y'all get out of theway, my little girl jumped to
show y'all how to do this andthey're like they're just
confused.

(14:56):
And most people.
When they go off that cliff thefirst time, anyway they'll get
right to the edge and they'lljust easy step, like they're
going to make it a shorter jumpLike I just slowly step off
these dudes barely give her anyroom and she just comes running
dead, sprint from about 20 yardsback and just launches I mean

(15:16):
as high as she can jump,launches off the side of that
cliff like whoo hits the water.
And I talk so much trash tothose guys and every one of
those dudes jumped in the next60 seconds.
They're like I can't do this.
Um, so that's one of my.
Someone had asked like tellsome, tell some stories.
When folks heard we were goingto do this, I was like that's my
laily, my favorite lailysummary story of what it's like

(15:40):
to grow up in snowbird.
You're literally like fearless.
Um, so I like that one um yeah,any other like.
Can you think of any other likeadventure, memories of stuff
we've done, either like aone-off or something we do
consistently when you're growingup that you really like?

Speaker 3 (15:56):
I'm trying to think like mama did so many things
with us that was like just suchgood memories but like even just
I think I think a little bit ofit is just like a natural
desire to do stuff like that.
But also growing up like I meanyou know, I remember well, I
don't remember, but y'all mademe do the three man swing when I

(16:18):
was like four maybe.
So I think so much of thatstuff is like push me, you know,
and give me that desire andstuff.
But I'm trying to think ofstuff with mama that we've done
Like just always I mean it's notalways illegal, but so many
little things where it's likethis is borderline, you know.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Jumping off bridges and major highways.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
Jumping off bridges, like I remember.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
There's a bridge in a place.
There's a bridge in a place.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
There's a bridge in a place.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
On a main highway in a place.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
Yep, that you're not supposed to jump off of.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
And it has the sign with the state.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
Right before it and there's like a little pull off.
And I can remember like growingup doing that like just pulling
off weird.
She'd be like, okay, went updoing that like just pulling off
weird.
She'd be like, okay, you guysready, you gotta jump out.
And so she'd pull off and weall jump out of the car, run
make sure no cars are coming,jump off, climb out and drive
away.
And I remember there was onetime when, uh, I don't know if

(17:15):
what kind of cop it was but.
I think it's yeah, deputy, hepulls up.
And it was like me, tucker, Ithink, emma and we all get under
the bridge, and mom was likeget under the bridge and I'm
like, no, it's going to make itlook worse.
And she's like just stay.
So then she goes up.
But there's been a lot of stufflike that.
That is just good memories,yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
What about when you were a little kid, like when you
think about because people, I'msure you get the question a lot
what's it like growing up asnowbird?
What's it like being a snowbirdkid, like in stages of life,
when you think about, likeelementary school age lately,
what was your favorite thingabout camp?

Speaker 3 (17:57):
I literally would give anything to go back to one
of those days like I think Ifeel like a regular day was just
going to camp and I remember meand Gabe Clark would just get
on our bikes and just ride, andthen one of our favorite things
was to just work our way up thecreek, um, looking for crawdads

(18:22):
and stuff.
And I've told this story, Ithink, to some of my friends,
but I remember one time we madelike this gigantic crawdad like
village and we had likedifferent swimming holes for
like the different sizes, likereally big ones would be in this
hole, really small ones, and weprobably had like I mean it was
a lot of crawdads Because wewalked the whole creek and we

(18:44):
would bring them back and putthem in their little pools and
we were so proud of it, and sothen we left them and then we go
back the next day and everysingle one of them is dead
because we didn't leave anyrunning water and they have to
have running water, so there'sno oxygen and we were like well,
it was like a mess.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Crawdad genocide.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, it was world war on the crawdads not good,
but yeah, stuff like that andthen like making forts in the
woods all the time, like I don'tknow.
I feel like a lot of the stuffthat I see the camp kids doing
now it's like a lot moreinvolved with like the staff and
like campers, like so much moreof the campers.

(19:27):
But I feel like growing up wewere just like kind of doing
literally whatever kind of no, Imean I hung out with the
campers and stuff for sure, butI feel like it was a lot just on
our own, just you know yeah, itseems like this wave of camp
kids.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
They want to be at camp, doing camp things with
camp kids, with staff and y'allwould I mean, sometimes y'all
would just come back for meals.
The one fort I remember you hadup kind of on that mountain at
Slow, fast, yeah, like a wholefort built.
Yeah, you'd stay gone like TomSawyer H.

(20:05):
Yep.
Yeah, you'd stay gone Like TomSawyer, huck Finn stuff Roaming
the woods.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
So fun yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
And when you were in elementary school, you were
homeschooled.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
So you would come to camp during the day.
A lot, a lot Travel with me, aton.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
Yeah, that was really fun.
I'd always finish school early,which I always would brag about
to all my public school friends.
But yeah, then like just even Iremember me and Kilby would
just do really stupid stuff tothe campers, like to freak them

(20:40):
out and stuff with bugs Eatingstuff.
Yeah, like stuff like that whereI think with you it's like
that's so, you like just to doit to get a reaction uh-huh like
I remember, we would set up alittle literally like it was our
version of like a lemonadestand, but it was with worms and

(21:03):
we would get cameras to pay usto eat worms.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Eat, not crawlers.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
Terrible.
It was so bad.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Do you remember making money doing that?

Speaker 3 (21:14):
Yeah, oh, yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yep, that's really funny.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
Yeah, stuff like that .
When I'm like that, it justdoesn't feel real.
It feels like I don't know awhole another life.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, there is like, uh, there is like two eras of
slow.
Your childhood era is is it's?
It's interesting in so manyways it's still the exact same,
like the core of who we are andkind of the mindset, but just
the organization has grown somuch bigger.
There it's like a different era.

(21:48):
So, like the kids that aregrowing up now, they are not
having an experience, they'renot having the same experience
you had.
I was talking to amanda potter,who's my admin, but amanda works
remote from dallas.
I think now they've bouncedaround over in Orlando, then
they're in Richmond, other inDallas, but they worked here at
SWO from for about eight years.

(22:10):
Well, she hasn't been back herein 10 years, almost nine years.
She came back for Kilby'swedding yeah, 2019, but she
didn't go to camp, they stayedin hotel, went off site, the
wedding was off site.
So she's not been here in nineyears and sometimes she'll this
happens a lot where we'll be?
We'll be in our weekly phonecall.
I was talking to her yesterdayand she'll say, well, it is

(22:33):
summer camp so, and she'll saysomething and I realize, oh no,
it's not like that anymore.
It has changed.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
Like things are different yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
You kind of you got to grow up in the golden era in
some ways, and in some ways it'sway better now.
Yeah, you know, like there'sthere's just it's different,
different experiences.
Okay, all right, we're gonna.
We're gonna stop and take aquestion from jebby.
The question was when you weregrowing up um, now your second
year working on summer staff didyou always want to do that?

Speaker 3 (23:05):
yeah, I think for me, like I used to, I think,
getting into seventh, eighthgrade and then like ninth and
tenth, I love like hanging outwith element girls and like um
loved being a part of that.
I could never like fully do itbecause of sports, but like I

(23:27):
just loved being, you know,doing the stuff they did and I
think I think I always had thedesire to work and I always kind
of saw myself doing it.
Um, whereas, like with I thinkI think I went through a phase
in middle school, brat phase,like seventh, maybe sixth, sixth

(23:50):
, seventh grade I think Iremember talking to Kilby about
this.
I feel like at some point mostcamp kids, whatever you want to
call them kind of go throughlike they don't want people to
know, like they'll do anythingfor you not to know that, oh, my
parents work here, I grew uphere, whatever, um, and I don't

(24:10):
know why that is.
I think it's just a phase whereit's like you just want to be
you're trying to find youridentity, yeah I think, trying
to find a balance of like notbeing arrogant and boastful
about it, but then also justbeing like yeah, yeah, like
that's, you know, part of mylife, that's who the Lord's made

(24:31):
me, and stuff.
So I think, like in seventhgrade I struggled with that of
like not wanting to people toknow, and also that was a time
where I wasn't like trulypursuing the Lord daily.
So that makes sense, um, but Ithink once I really started to
find the balance of like that'snot maybe something I'm going to
lead with in conversation, butlike if it comes up like yeah,
I'll talk about it.
I think that kind of season inlife starting to like really

(24:55):
also get to an age where I canactually have relationships with
the staff and like obviouslydifferent seasons of life, but
like genuinely hang out, haveconversation more than just like
oh, let me do the poopy poll 12times, you know, and that's
like our relationship, but likeactually hanging out with them
outside of camp and stuff.
I think that's when I reallydeveloped the desire to work and

(25:18):
was like, yeah, I definitelywant to do it as soon as I can,
so yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
Uh, I, one of the most proud I've ever been of you
.
So we so you homeschooledthrough eighth grade.
You shifted to public schoolfor all of high school,
primarily for athletics, um, andI'm proud of you that you're
the all-time scoring leader inMurphy high school soccer.

(25:46):
But that's not, that's not.
That's as awesome as that issports accomplishments.
And I would like to talk alittle bit about cause.
You had a, you had a verysuccessful high school sports
career.
I want to touch on that.
That's a segment that I want totalk about, because I have this
conversation with parents allthe time.
Yesterday I'm at camp.
I have a long, an hour-longconversation with a dad who's a

(26:08):
leader from a church and theyouth pastor, because their
church is, they're struggling inyouth ministry, because the
parents are all consumed withweekend travel ball and club
soccer and travel baseball andlike where's the balance?
I want to talk a little bitabout that.
That's one of the things only afew things I really want to get
into, but that's one of them.
Yeah, so, and I want to talkabout the point where you

(26:29):
decided I don't want to pursuecollegiate athletics because
that was a cool moment at theend of your freshman year kind
of going into sophomore year.
That I think changed the dynamicof how yeah for me it took all
the pressure off to just enjoyyour high school sports.
It was so.
Do you remember what I wouldsay to you after your games?

Speaker 3 (26:47):
I would say I love watching yeah, I love watching
you play ball yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
So if it's volleyball , I would just always say I love
watching you play volleyball.
Yes, I love watching you playbasketball.
I love coming.
I love watching you play socceryeah um, because it was like I
just loved being in the momentof those sports yeah you know,
and so I want to talk about thatbalance.
Um, but something that I thinkis I don't know how to say this

(27:15):
I said it makes me proud of you,but that I'm thankful for, and
I think, growing up, this getsinstilled in the home, but I
also think it's a product ofgrowing up at SWO, because one
of our core values is that we'rehardworking.
Describe for the good listenerswhat your job was the summer

(27:35):
after your sophomore year atSnowbird.
It involved a golf cart.
Was that after your freshmanyear or sophomore year?

Speaker 3 (27:42):
Sophomore.
So the summer between yoursophomore and junior year, you
worked at camp I worked in thekitchen for, like I think, sixth
to ninth grade in the summersand then 10th grade.
Yeah, after my sophomore summerI mean sophomore year that
summer I cleaned the portapotties every day and honestly,

(28:04):
I think people like think thatwould be terrible, but it really
was.
Yes, they do think that wouldbe terrible, but it really.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yes, they do think that would be terrible.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
Everyone thinks it's terrible but it really was
honestly a great job because Iwould have the golf cart.
I only had to do it, I think,once a day and the and I could
do it whenever.
So I would just do it beforebreakfast when it was cool
outside it wasn't hot and muggy,so like you know and I would

(28:31):
just get the golf cart, get myclean stuff go and I didn't have
to, like get the stuff out ofthe park potty, I just had to
wipe everything down, sweep itout, just pull out paper,
whatever.
But yeah, I did that for awhole summer just once a day and
it would maybe take like 45minutes to an hour and it was
like 16 of them and you lockedthem all down, picked up trash.

(28:51):
Yeah, there was only one timewhere it was like something
really, really gross.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
But the point is that was so normal to you, but that
is not normal to most kids.
Not many kids would want to dothat.
There's kids that would, yeah,and I just would challenge
parents to raise your kids to betough, make them do hard things
, whether that's jumping offcliffs or cleaning porta-potties
.
You might not have that sameopportunity, but I think those

(29:20):
are the types of things thatform a different mindset in you
don't?
you think, yes, the fact thatyou would sit here and say it
wasn't that bad, yeah, butthat's because it wasn't that
bad to you.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
And I would challenge parents to supportingly push
your kids to do things that areuncomfortable, that are out of
the box.
Nothing wrong with getting ajob at Starbucks or Chick-fil-A
that's awesome, I'm not sayingthat's not a good thing and
maybe bucks or chick-fil-athere's like that's awesome, I'm
not saying that that's not agood thing and maybe that is the
out-of-the-box thing.
To just have them work, thepoint being put a workload on

(29:53):
them and it's okay if some ofit's hard and it's okay if they
whine or complain, which younever did about any of that.
But but I'm just I know thatthere are some parents that if
you start to push and challengeyour kids because you have some
siblings not going to say whowill voice their complaints

(30:15):
about many things, yeah, thestruggle is real y'all when it
comes to raising kids, and so Ithink that's important.
You decided so.
Your freshman year you go intohigh school for the first time.
You had played club soccer upuntil that point.
We moved you to high school.

(30:35):
The next town over we live inAndrews, north Carolina we moved
you Tuck's first year, shiftingto Raven Gap where he
transferred for footballrecruitment.
You didn't go to Andrews, youwent to Murphy High School
because they had a women'ssoccer team.
So we were kind of going in alldirections that year.
Talk a little bit about thattransition from homeschool to

(30:57):
public school let's talk alittle bit about because we have
people that are homeschool,public school and private school
that listen, what was thatexperience like?
Are there things you likebetter about homeschool, things
you like better about goingpublic school and private school
?
That listened, what was thatexperience like?
And are there things you likebetter about homeschool, things
you like better about going topublic school?

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, I think it was an easier transition than it
could have been, for sure,because I think sports helped
just like break the ice of likemeeting people.
Because you know, summerworkouts and stuff like the
summer before my freshman yeargoing into public school like we
were doing basketball stuff andsome soccer stuff, so I got to

(31:33):
meet some girls through that.
So I kind of already had alittle bit of a group of friends
, so that was really helpful.
Um, but then like COVID andeverything was my ninth grade
year and that was like growingup homeschooled and at camp,
like I mean, obviously we're abig movie family, like stuff

(31:54):
like that, but I didn't reallyhave any skills with technology
whatsoever, so I was honestlynot doing great my freshman year
, because it was like you couldgo one day or two days or not at
all, and I was like I'm notgoing to sit in a classroom for
eight hours in the same roomwith six people.

(32:16):
So I went on to online and, likeI think, I barely passed two of
my classes because I would.
Everything was on a Chromebookand you are a mom and didn't
know either, so I was like yeah,and I still don't really.
But so like that was definitelya struggle for sure.
But if it wasn't for sports, Ireally think it would have been

(32:38):
way harder because I wouldn'thave really met anyone.
So that was.
I was very thankful for that.
But like sophomore on sophomoreyear on school was fine cause we
were in person and stuff, um,but yeah, I think for sure, like
being surrounded by peoplepretty much my whole life being
at camp, and we're also a family, that's not like you just, you

(33:00):
know, go into your rooms and doyour own thing, so like pretty
much my whole life justsurrounded by people.
And so I think the transition oflike being in a social setting
for pretty much the whole day,like that wasn't too hard as
smooth, just being at camp allthe time, um, and then also just

(33:20):
like I think it provided somuch perspective seeing Kilby do
it and seeing Tucker do it andthen me going after them, just
like because you know I was, Iremember begging to let begging
y'all to let me go to school,like seventh grade, and I
literally think about that allthe time and I'm so, so thankful

(33:44):
that you said no, no, because Iwas not in the right place to
go and I think I would havereally struggled and so like
even just being thankful forthat, and get into a place where
I genuinely think I was readyand I had a foundation, and like
I think I would have been fineif I wouldn't have gone to
public school, but it reallyhelped me like genuinely put

(34:05):
things into action, um, in myfaith, and just like actually be
submersed in a community thatwas not all believers and didn't
have the same morals, all thatstuff.
So I mean I think anybody needsto do that, but you went in it
was.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
it was really crazy the time.
And this is just like uh,especially with sports, whether
it's high school, college,professional, so many things
have to line up with the rightopportunities.
Timing is everything.
You know, hank, who was aprofessional race car driver,
he'll say he became a NASCAR, ahigh level NASCAR driver because

(34:47):
the timing was right.
You know, like Tucker'srecruiting um the time, and if
COVID is what pushed him to goto another school, that turned
into a crazy recruitment likeotherwise, he wouldn't get
recruited.
Um, you went to Murphy highschool at a time when there was
a group of girls, the basketballprogram there was hitting on

(35:11):
all cylinders.
The coach was phenomenal, Raywas a super gifted dude and it
was like three straight statechampionship runs and you got in
on the second and third oneLike a team that was highly
ranked.
I mean, I think at one pointout of all North Carolina
schools, y'all were rankedsecond.

(35:32):
You were first in 1A but thenall classifications as a 1A
school, all classifications,y'all were ranked second out of
all 400-and-some high schools inthe state.
And I think you'd have beat theone-ranked team which was a big
6A-type high school in thestate, and I think you'd have
beat that first the the one rankteam which was a big 6a type
high school in charlotte orsomething like you like
literally a once in a lifetimegroup of girls that kind of came

(35:53):
together and you got to come in.
I do think that was opportunityfor success, but could have also
derailed you because, um, how'dyou manage that coming into
like?
Because you're doing that inbasketball and then in soccer
your freshman year you scored 33goals.
I think is what it was?
Something crazy.
It was like a record for asingle season or something.

(36:16):
How did you I've talked withthis with talk about this with
Katie how did you balance sportsand school Cause it was highly
you were in, you were in aprogram that in both sports like
really successful, a lot ofsuccess notoriety how did you
balance that with just stayinggrounded?

Speaker 3 (36:37):
Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
What do you say to people that are like sports are
kind of the thing that drives?

Speaker 3 (36:42):
them.
I think growing up at Snowbirdlike helped with that so much
because, like, whether you likeit or not, there is, you know,
eyes on you pretty much at alltimes.
So I think, like the pressurearea of it, like with sports,

(37:04):
and just like those teams beingso successful and balancing that
like, I really think the Lordequipped me very well growing up
here with just like genuinelynot even thinking about it and
like not letting it affect likeyour pride and confidence.
Um, and then also like just Imean it was a lot of those girls

(37:28):
were, I mean, freak athletes,so like intimidating but in a
good way, like in a humbling wayand like coming into it.
They set such good examples ofjust like hard work, like
working your butt off and nottaking.
I mean they were.
I think some of them weredefinitely believers but like
not genuinely pursuing the Lord.

(37:50):
So, honestly, that was also ahuge gift from the Lord them not
being like super cocky,prideful, arrogant girls, like
it was just they were all prettydown to earth and just hard
workers.
And so I think they also set agood example of like we're a
team, like there's not oneperson carrying and even if

(38:10):
there is, you know, because attimes there definitely was.
But like I think, just like,just as a believer, always
having the mindset of likeliterally every single thing you
have as a gift that can betaken away, and so like just

(38:30):
living with that mindset of likethis is, I mean, our school had
500, has 500 people in it andlike to go on a run like that
with sports, with two sports,like it's crazy for them the
size of the school school.
So just like always genuinelylike having reminders, however,

(38:52):
like I remember, you know, justcertain verses that I found that
were very helpful to justreally keep me humble, and just
like perspective of even I thinkTucker helped a lot too,
because he was, I mean, he playsfootball in college and all
that, and so like I think I'malso very thankful for following
him, like being after him,because I think that gave me

(39:15):
humility also of like okay, thisis nothing crazy.
Like, even if it's uncommon inour family, just seeing Tuck do
it.
I don't know, it just seemednot normal, but it didn't seem
like, oh, this is like the peak,this is like the best thing
that I could be doing.
I think I don't know if thatmakes sense it does.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
I think what you're saying is um, success on the
sports field or on the court wasnormal enough, but it was all
tempered and balanced with.
But that's not who you are.
That's not your identity.
You know, you saw.
You saw Tuck have an extremelysuccessful career, but it never

(39:59):
became his identity and weworked to try to keep y'all
grounded.
Your, your parents were bothcollegiate athletes.
Both your granddads were, butno one none like people that
know.
Uh, your mom would never knowif somebody didn't tell him that
she was an elite division oneathlete.
She's in the hall of fame at adivision one university, you

(40:22):
know.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
So I think there's that.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
There's that balance of hey, let's use these gifts
for the lord, let's have a goodtime with it, but this is not
what defines me yeah, and Ithink like that just also, like
you know, after a great game orafter a goal that we reach, like
we would talk about it andcelebrate it, but then I mean

(40:45):
that, mean that's pretty much it, like it was never, like
brought home every day of like,oh, this is our only
conversation.
This is, like you know, I hadteammates where that's all their
parents talked about was theamount of three-pointers they
got or whatever, or you know thegoals that they got, and so,
like just seeing the effect ofthat on those girls, I was very

(41:11):
thankful that, like we hadsports and then we we left it on
the field, we left it at school, Like it was always good to
celebrate and like encourage andaffirm.
But it wasn't everything and itwasn't all conversation was
about.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
That's good.
I'm grateful for that, so thatand not like when I'm talking to
those guys yesterday, I'msitting there thinking I know
parents, you know, want the bestfor their kids and if I could
just understand.
This is a fleeting game thatprovides incredible memories,
life lessons, experiences, butit's not as valuable as playing

(41:46):
around the five crowns at thekitchen table, talking trash to
each other and having fun withit, you know, and yeah, the
whole family pounding three tubsof ice cream while we're doing
it, you know, on a power outagenight like we had the other
night, it's just likeput it all in balance.
What about when, when peopleask you, you you mentioned
something a while ago you, yousaid, you know, in seven, two,

(42:09):
you said two things that I wantto come back to and then and
then we'll go to like our wrapup points.
But, um, you said, in seventhgrade you wrestled with that.
Uh, you know, kind of want tocreate some my own identity, so
I'm just not a snowbird kid andyou worked through that.
Then you got to high school andyou were accustomed to having

(42:30):
sort of all eyes on you.
What, um, you know growing, howhard has it been growing up as
mine and little's daughter, uh,as a snowbird kid?
Like, has has it been reallyhard?
Or do you think like, would yousay it's just hard and you just
got to buckle up for it, or isit more like it's not that hard,

(42:50):
people just make it hard, oryou, you make it harder than it
has to be?
Like what?
What are your thoughts ongrowing up when people say to
you hey, what's it like being asnowboard kid?
Is it hard?
What's it like being brody andlittle's daughter?
Is it hard?
Like, you can speak freely?

Speaker 3 (43:04):
you know that.
But, um, I honestly don't thinkit's that hard, like for me, I
don't know.
I feel like it was just reallyfun and like I think at times,
like I remember, like jb wassaying earlier, there's so many

(43:25):
things that I'll just mentionthat I feel like is so normal
and they'll be like, really,that's not like normal kids do
that.
Like in high school I rememberI had like a group of little
friends, you know, and theywould give me so much crap
because, like they would be likethey would say something oh,
like, I can't imagine doing this, or oh, did y'all see this?

(43:46):
And I would always have a storyof like, oh well, my family did
this, or oh well, I went towhatever and I was never trying
to be like, oh you know.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
You just wanted to share your story.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
I was just like oh, that made me think of this.
There was like, I think attimes I was like dang, like I
never want to make you know them, feel like I'm trying to brag
and stuff, but also like findingthe balance of that is like
your life and so you know youcan share that with people, and

(44:19):
like finding friends who see youfor more than just like Brody's
daughter or, you know, a goodsoccer player or something like.
I think the Lord has just grownup at Snowbird.
I found every single one of myclose friends here and so I
think he has gifted me with likesuch good friends that

(44:40):
genuinely like, I think, strivefor like yes, that's a part of
me, and like we can do funthings because of it, and like
you know it's.
it can be a different friendshipjust because I have grown up
here and like, but also likewe're just friends and like it's
it's not all about snowboard oryou know, but I just I do think

(45:02):
of that at school, cause thatwas kind of a time when I was
like like I never want to seemknow prideful in that way and
like I know they didn't mean it,but they would just nag at me
about it and stuff and I wouldjust I would just laugh, but
it's funny because people livetend to live more in the
controlled parameters.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
Yeah, and I also one thing that we tried to do with
y'all and I wonder if you nowreflect back and you realize
this but we tried to do veryspontaneous things like the
jumping off the bridge.
I remember a couple of timesthat wasn't planned, or remember
when you traveled with me, Iflew somewhere to speak.
I used to take you with me.

(45:43):
I loved it.
Some of my favorite memories isI I mean you and I logged a lot
of miles together um planes,trains and automobiles kind of
thing and we had flown back intoatlanta we're coming up into
the city yeah and I'm like lookat that massive building that
huge tower with the round thingyou know I'm talking about and

(46:03):
what's it?
called the west yeah, like let'sgo up there.
So we're you remember that?
Yes driving home from theairport and we're like, yeah,
and finding our way to where, toI don't even know where we
parked or I don't know.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
But yeah, we went up there you know, it's crazy and
we had nachos.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Yep, because it was expensive yeah yeah and nachos
and shared a sprite I think yeahand walked.
You were probably 14.
Walked around looking out overthe city yeah but I like that's
a simple little thing and youthink that's not a big deal yeah
but people don't do stuff juststop pull off the road.
You don't have to get home sofast yeah I would say to dads

(46:43):
you're with your daughter firstoff.
You should be with her goingsomewhere.
Just the two of you should bedoing that, and then figure out
something along the way and doit.
You know, do it.
Um, yeah, I mean, I, I rememberwhat.

(47:05):
Two years ago we rented thosepolaris slingshots.
Okay, I'm gonna tell I'm gonnatell on us because we rented
these.
They're like tri-wheeled twowheels in the front, one in the
back.
We rented, I rented two of themand there were five speeds and
lately was just learning todrive a straight shift.
She's just getting ready to gether license.

(47:27):
So it's been the year you gotyour license and she could drive
a stick shift.
Okay, I make all my kids learnon a stick shift and she's
learning, she's getting the hangof it.
But this thing was just geareddifferent and the gears were
real tight because it's like asports car.
So I rent two of these and meand you, mama and Tucker, we

(47:50):
drive to Clingman's dome.
So from here you get clean.
We rented these over towardsCherokee, then we drove
Clingman's dome and drove themup, parked, walked up to
Clingman's dome to the towerAwesome, we're coming back down.
And I was like I tossed Lelythe keys, so it was 15,year-old
Lely.
I'm like you're driving us back.

(48:11):
So we're at the highest pointin the Smoky Mountain National
Park and Lely's now behind thewheel of the slingshot and we're
coming off.
And I remember we were gettingand I was showing you how to
downshift and she went fromfifth Instead of hitting third,
said whoop, boom and hit firstgear and we're like bam, I mean
we almost smashed our faces andwe're like like I almost blew

(48:34):
the

Speaker 3 (48:34):
transmission you know it was bad, but I think I have
a video, or you were taking thevideo, I think I think maybe I
was like it made that awfulsound grinding them, yeah, but I
think, uh, that cost, that daycosts like $600.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
And I'm like I remember thinking that's a lot
of money, for we rented them forlike two hours, three hours.
I'd spend that money like thatagain.
Like you know what I mean.
It's like I'll never forgetthat day and hopefully you won't
.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
yeah, yeah that was so fun creating those memories.
I think that's important um yeah, and I don't know, like I just
think about how mama is, likejust car rides, or like I
remember, you know, anytime, Iremember one time like we ran
out of gas and we're sitting onthe side of the road and you

(49:29):
know she just figure out fungames to play out of nothing.
So like, so many small thingslike that I think have impacted
just the way like our brains arenow like, just make it fun,
like, and she, she always saysif you're bored you're boring
and so it's like you're boringyeah like you know, just come up
with something.
I mean she would like pick.

(49:51):
You know, let's try to hit thattree with the rock, or let's
all go around and say whatever.
So but yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
So debbie asked the question um why, what,
ultimately?
Why did you decide you didn'twant to go play at the next
level, you only want to playhigh school sports, and then
move on.
And then, um, how did you staygrounded with a lot of high
school sports success?

Speaker 3 (50:17):
Yeah, I think with soccer.
I love soccer so much and Iplayed it growing up until
senior year and everything, andit was like my number one sport,
I think, going into you know,because you've got to decide
freshman, sophomore year, allright, am I going to do this or
not?
And so I like I mean there wastimes in middle school where I

(50:42):
was like, yes, I definitely wantto play 100% and like that's
when we started doing stuffwhatever.
But then I think honestly, abig part of it that I'm very
thankful for was like justseeing Tuck and the process of
getting there and like I mean Isaw him, obviously junior, his
junior senior year, but like Imean he was pretty much out of

(51:06):
the house junior year, you know,and like that was his life,
like everything.
And I think I have a passionfor like stuff, like camp and
working with kids and workinglike in that kind of world, and
so I think like I was a lot moredrawn to like being around camp
and like hanging out, you knowthe staff and the kids and even

(51:26):
like the little staff kids, andso like I think I was torn of
like man, like I'm watching thishappen, and it is like his life
, which is what he wants to doand what the Lord's called him
to.
So that's amazing and soinspiring for so many people.
But I just don't know if that'swhat I want to do and like.

(51:49):
So I think I was like making mymind up of I love soccer and I
want to finish strong and Idon't just want to like, just
have fun and it be like a casualthing, like I want to work hard
, I want to, you know, pursue itthe same way I have been, but
take the pressure off of if Idon't score a goal in a game,

(52:11):
like you know that's okay, likethere's not going to be, you
know, whatever repercussions ofmaybe not playing in the next
level.
So, like, honestly, I'm gladthat I decided soon, like
freshman, sophomore year,because I mean it was so fun,
like our team dynamic was so fun, like we just worked hard and
we you know we we were prettysuccessful and like but it was

(52:36):
just do what you can now andhave fun and work hard and
finish strong and like Iremember like my last game of my
senior year I was like I feltso good about it and like the
Lord really blessed me with thefun last season and I was so
content, and now, like this pastyear, I did like intramurals
and stuff, but I'm so thankfulthat it's not everything, cause

(52:56):
I mean it's a, you know, fulltime job and more, and so I
don't know, I think just throughprayer, but honestly

(53:28):
no-transcript.
So yeah, but I think that was aprocess of not deciding.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
Yeah, and I remember I think one thing that you were
able to achieve that wasdifferent from the path Tuck
took or Katie Cousins is Atpractice you gave 100%.
On game day you gave 100% andthen you went home and did other
things, plugged in at camp, andso I think you can give 100%

(54:00):
and do other things and so, yeah, I appreciate it.
One thing I always just lovedand appreciated was when you
were there, you were all.
Yeah, I, I appreciate it.
One thing I always just lovedand appreciated was when you
were there you were all in, butyou just said it and then you
left it on the field.
And practice will be theretomorrow when I get back.

Speaker 3 (54:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
And that's okay, that's yeah, that's, that's an
option for people.
Um, what about?
The other question was how doyou stay?

Speaker 3 (54:24):
grounded.
Yeah, I think it's so hard forso many people because, like, I
feel like I don't know if thisstatement is true, but I feel
like the majority of teenagerslike really start taking their
faith serious like junior senioryear, serious like junior

(54:50):
senior year.
And it's so hard because you'veset this pattern and you've set
this like expectation of oh, Ido enjoy these things, I do take
part in these things, likepartying, all that stuff,
whatever.
Um, but I think going into highschool like I had a pretty good
foundation and so with sports,I mean it was hard, for sure at
times, just like so muchnegativity and so much just

(55:16):
typical high school stuff, butlike being consistent and
honestly, it did not take longfor people to just know I don't
even ask Laila that becauseshe's probably gonna say no or I
don't, you know or even likeget into the point of like them
being protective.
Like I think my whole firstsemester, I think the summer

(55:37):
before freshman year, my wholefirst semester of freshman year
like setting that foundation wasso crucial because it made the
rest of my high school career somuch easier.
Because, like I mean I wouldstill like I had close
relationships with all of myteammates pretty much and like
we would have, you know, teamsleepovers, team whatever, go

(56:00):
out to eat before games afterall that stuff, like I loved
doing all of that.
But there were so many smallmoments that built up like to
big things of like they justknew that.
Oh yeah, you know, if I gossipto Lily about this, she's
probably not gonna like make mefeel shameful about it, but just

(56:21):
not respond and then it'spointless.
So like I think just there's somany little moments at the
beginning, if you're intentionalabout like standing strong and
staying grounded, of like I'mnot gonna, I might like sit here
and while they play this foulrap song, like okay, but I'm not
gonna sing every word, and likejust small things like that,

(56:42):
where I think they noticed andby the first semester of my
freshman year it was likehonestly so much easier because
they just expected that of meand it was like weird if I
didn't act like that, you know.
And then there were times where,like they've like don't say
that to Laylee, or don't ask herthat, or let's not, you know,

(57:02):
and it almost came like aprotective thing for them.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
I think a good phrase is establish yourself, yeah,
and your freshman year is thetime to do it.
Establish yourself.
If you'll do the hard work ofdoing that, if we've got young
people listening and maybeyou're going into your junior
year and you haven't establishedyourself, start school, commit
this first semester to establishyourself, and then it'll just

(57:30):
get easy.
It just will.

Speaker 3 (57:32):
Yeah, and if you are in your junior year and you
haven't established yourself,honestly, the Lord could use
that a whole lot more, becausepeople can see the change and
you don't have to make them feelshameful.
You can keep your same friendsbut create that distance of I'm
not going to take part in thosethings.
And that could lead to so muchgood conversation of like why,

(57:54):
why are you doing that?

Speaker 1 (58:00):
You know, um, or why are you changing in those ways?
Well, and I appreciate what yousaid about, and I watched you
live this out.
You weren't, you weren'tcondescending, you weren't
holier than thou, you were justa genuine, sincere person.
And if they're listening tothat music, you didn't tell them
to stop.
That takes some inner fortitudeto to not let that music affect

(58:24):
you.
But at the same time, if you'rearound people that don't have a
relationship with the Lord andthen you try to impose Christian
principles on it, like it's notgoing to be a good reaction,
and so there are times to speakup and there are times to just
quietly live out your faith.
And so you're there, they'relistening to it, and pretty soon
they started to realize there'ssomething different here and

(58:48):
and then being confident of whoyou are in Christ.
I remember we talked about this.
We've relived this, replayed ita lot.
Your freshman year, early in thebasketball season, y'all were
having a sleep over at one ofthe girls houses and you called
me.
I was here at north campus.

(59:09):
It was winter swow, it wasbetween christmas and new year.
We were at a winter swow.
You called me at it's 11o'clock at night and I take the
call, step away.
I take the call and you say I'min the bathroom at this girl's
house.
Um, we're going around and youmight can give some clarity to

(59:29):
this.
There's one of those deals whereeverybody's going around
sharing, talking, and you saidI'm getting ready to share the
gospel with this entire team.
You're like the freshman on theteam, they're 12th graders,
they're 18 year old girls onthis team and you're 15.
I'm getting ready to share thegospel.
Just pray for me.
And I prayed with you.
And then you went out.
And what was that scenario andhow did that play out?

Speaker 3 (59:51):
Yeah, I can't remember exactly what we were
talking about, but, like I said,that group of girls was very
unique and like it wasn't like Ihad to fight for opportunities
to share the gospel and sharethe truth, like the Lord really
worked it out, where there waspretty clear times where I was

(01:00:12):
like, okay, yes, the Lord wantsme to share this.
I can't remember exactly whatwe were talking about, but like
they liked having deepconversation and so like I think
they were just talking aboutlike general stuff, like how the
world is here, like stuff likethat.
You know, general stuff likehow the world is here, like

(01:00:32):
stuff like that, you know.
And I remember there's alwayslike just a time before where I
was really hesitant andobviously the enemy was trying
to make me fearful and stuff, um, but like I remember just
sharing the gospel and that waskind of it, and then they were
all like listening and then theconversation kind of got into

(01:00:52):
things like abortion or likepretty heavy topics that you
could talk about for hours andlike I kind of also the Lord
gave me in those moments thewisdom of like it's OK, like you
don't have to speak oneverything because I mean I was
like 14, 15.
So like I don't think I was veryequipped to debate abortion in

(01:01:16):
those moments and I don't knowif I had the confidence.
And I think the Lord gave methe discernment of like, ok, you
shared the gospel, you know,you had the confidence and you
took that step.
So it's OK if you don't havethe knowledge and the wisdom to.
You know, go into these deeperthings and like also, that's not
the problem with their hearts,like knowing what abortion is,

(01:01:37):
you know, talking about thatit's probably not gonna.
Like maybe make them trulyquestion, like, what their lives
are, you know what they'repursuing and stuff.
So like there was a lot oftimes like that where it was
good conversation but it wasnever like it was always a

(01:01:58):
pretty clear opportunity.
Like I don't feel like I everhad to really force it and then
just being faithful when theopportunity did come.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Yeah, just being faithful.
Yeah, chris, what were yougoing to say?
Yeah, great talking point.
The question was when, me andyour mama back in the fall, we
did a pretty big series, a longsit-down conversation talking
about just our life, and wetalked about how, when you're

(01:02:32):
growing up.
So first of all, let me ask youa question how many times have
you been to Disney World orOrlando?
None, Zero.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Zero.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
Now I'm not saying it's wrong to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
I'm not saying but we just didn't do it.
Yeah, how many trips have youtaken from the time you were
that you can remember until yougraduated from high school?
Do you have an idea how manyout of the country trips you
took and how many weeks ormonths total you probably spent
in another country?

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
yeah, I think trips from like what 2 to 13.
We would go to honduras everyyear and then we lived in africa
for those four months.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
So you think all of that gave you a better
experience than a disney worldvacation?

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
yes, I do yeah, and I'm not being facetious, but
yeah, I think, even just like aside note, even the vacations we
do take or we did take, it waslike not to Disney World, where
it's like there's entertainmenteverywhere you look.
It's like we just go to thelake and we just chill and we

(01:03:41):
just make things to do.
We, you know, like I don't know, we would for hours throw the
football off the dock and catchit like into the water, stuff
like that.
Like even the vacations we didtake, it was like truly restful
and like just let your mindthink and as a kid, like really
cultivated, like creativity andjust like entertaining yourself.

(01:04:01):
It's our family yeah, and then,like all those trips, I mean
that's like genuinely priceless,I don't I don't even know how
to describe like the impacts andjust the perspective, yeah, of
of those trips on my life, likeI think obviously it always just

(01:04:23):
makes you super grateful forwhat you do have in the life
that the Lord has blessed youwith, um, but it also just like
really helped with beingrelational and like not being
fearful of like talking topeople and like going into
situations that I don't know howthis is going to go, but like

(01:04:44):
it's going to be great and it'llbe fine, like just like little
things like that where it's likeyou know, when we were going to
Africa, like we were just going, like there wasn't steps to
walk out, there wasn't a plan,like a direct plan, so many of
those things where it's like Ifeel like now I can really see
like the Lord has used that tojust give me like a perspective

(01:05:08):
of I don't need to know exactlyhow this is going to go, or this
conversation or this experience, like it's going to be good and
I'm going to grow from it, solike that's something to be
excited for.
You know, um, but I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
There's so many things the uh, yeah, I'm glad
you brought that up, becausethat was going to Africa was a
crazy deal and I've never toldthat story on here or really
anywhere.
But I mean I had.
I had located a lawyer.
We were leaving.
We were flying out on aWednesday out of Dulles Airport

(01:05:44):
in DC.
Tuesday or Wednesday, wednesdayout of dulles airport in dc.
Tuesday or wednesday.
We had a court date thefollowing monday at a court in
kampala, uganda.
We were going to get in country.
We didn't have anywhere to stay.
I found a little guest housewhere we could rent a room.
I emailed the guy.

(01:06:04):
He said oh yeah, give me yourflight information, I'll have my
, I'll have, we'll have our, ourdriver.
The guy that kind of has is ourtaxi, our go-to taxi guy.
Pick you up at the airport.
I don't know.
I'm gonna see if you rememberthis.
So I've got directions to whenwe get to kampala and they've

(01:06:24):
changed that airport now.
You've seen it.
It's very nice now In 2014,.
It was ghetto, third world.
It's really nice now.
I was shocked last time I went.
I was like whoa, this is waydifferent.
But at that time, when you gotoff the plane, you walked
outside into the terminal, wentthrough the airport, went
through customs, checked in intothe terminal, went through the

(01:06:50):
airport, went through customs,checked in and then you walked
straight to luggage and outsideand you're just in the you're in
Africa and he had told I'demailed this guy hey, I need a
place to stay.
I got a family of five andwe're going to be bringing two
more children into our family.
I need a place to stay.
Can I rent a room from you?
One room.
You remember that we all livedin one room for there four
months.
He said yep.

(01:07:10):
He said I, and I said I need aride from the airport.
Our flight landed at 11 o'clockat night.
Get through customs.
I said we'll get throughcustoms and I need a driver.
We're an.
We're staying an hour from theairport.
The driver was this dude namedMuhammad and and he said he'll

(01:07:31):
be in.
He's larger than most ugandansand he'll be in a red shirt.
He'll be waiting for yououtside of the airport.
So it's me, your mama.
You were what?
Seven or eight?
seven I think seven years old atthat point, and then tuck would
have been in 10 and kilby wouldhave been 12 or something like
that.
Yeah or no?
Let's see it was early 14, sonobody had birthdays yet that
year.
So y'all would have been in 10and Kilby would have been 12 or
something like that.
Yeah or no?
Let's see, it was early 14.
So nobody had birthdays yetthat year.
So y'all would have been 13, 11and eight.

(01:07:53):
That was your ages.
So we walk out of the airportat 1230, midnight 30.
Walk outside there's a hundredcabbies trying to get us to come
get in their car.
I'm like now we waiting on myman, muhammad, and we sat down
with all of our luggage for anindefinite amount of time.
Indefinite amount of time.
We didn't know how long we weregoing to have to stay Sat down

(01:08:15):
on the curb in a third worldcountry.
So we'll wait here for Muhammad.
We had been traveling for 40hours at that point yeah.
And an hour laterhammad walkedup.
I was kind of like I don't knowwhat to do and back then phones

(01:08:35):
wouldn't work like that.
Yeah, yep, he walks up.
You didn't see this.
But muhammad said he had a guywith him and he said I said are
you muhammad?
And he said yeah, I said whereyou, he said I'm taking you to,
and he said the name of theplace.
I was like okay, I think it's areal guy.
But he had a guy with him andI'm like who's this?
And he said this is my friend,he's a former policeman or he's
a policeman, he's, he's, he'strustworthy.
So I sat behind him in the caryou didn't see this I took my

(01:08:56):
belt off, I leaned up andwhispered in his ear and I said
I will die for my family and Iwill also kill you for my family
.
Drive me straight to this houseand if you do anything funny,
I'm putting my rope, my um belt,around your neck and I'm gonna
kill you.
I literally said that in thestudio oh my gosh because I was
freaked out, man, you know.

(01:09:16):
Now I think I wouldn't bescared to go there, but I don't
know.
I mean I had emailed a guy Ididn't know.
Yeah, and I'm like our kidswere going on an adventure and
some people say, man, it wasreckless the way we did things.
We're sitting in a van at onein the morning in a third world
country.
I just took my belt off and Isat behind the driver and I said
I'd die for my family, I'llkill for my family.

(01:09:39):
You drive me straight to Herband Ellen's house.
If you don't, I'm going to putmy belt on.
So y'all didn't know that, butthat's an experience like
sitting on the side.
Can you even remember gettingthere?

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
I can remember getting there.
I don't really remember thedriving stuff, but even thinking
about so many of thosesituations where y'all never,
like you know, complained, LikeI think just observing so many
parents and like my friends inhigh school and stuff like that

(01:10:15):
was such a direct effect on them, Like just complaining and like
making a big deal about stuff,Like I mean there's never really
a time where I can remembery'all like complaining about
stuff, like sitting on that curbor whatever, and so to us it
was just like it's great, it'slike you know just chilling.
So like I think that was also areally big thing too.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
What about Chris mentioned?
You know, instead of going onthose vacations because what we
would do, our split was in inthe spring, on y'all spring
break we would go to, we'd stayin a lake house in the middle of
nowhere.
We go south, it'd be warm, it'dbe march or april usually april
, yeah and it would be warm andwe would buy groceries and we'd

(01:11:01):
spend seven to nine days justright there, yeah then every
december we would travel tountil you got, yeah, until
you're playing high school ball.

Speaker 3 (01:11:13):
Um, we would travel to honduras and spend a week at
an orphanage yeah yeah you feellike you missed out not going to
disney world no, I likeliterally the anticipation of
going to Honduras, like I canremember I mean, that was like
the most excited, because it wasso cool, because I got to build

(01:11:35):
those relationships, like youknow, growing up with those kids
kind of like obviously didn'tgrow up with them, but every
year I would go, it's the samegirls I would hang out with and
so like just y'all making itexciting, like just, I don't
know, it was never a thought ofmy mind of like, oh, I would

(01:11:56):
rather be doing, you know,disney World or something.
Um, it was just, it was.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
I loved it yeah, and I I don't want to just sit here
and hound on that, but I justwanted our listeners to hear,
and maybe it'll challengeparents to, hey, instead of
spending the money to go on acruise next year, take that
money and look at an orphanagein Central America it's not hard

(01:12:23):
to get there or even in Africaor India, and just go there and
say as a family, we're going todo the work of getting passports
, getting visas, you can do it,it's not that hard, it just
takes work and effort, but it'snot that, it's not that big of a
deal.
And then take your family and go, instead of going on a
self-serving vacation, go on anothers serving vacation, and

(01:12:44):
what you'll find is it fillsyour tank much more than going
on a cruise or going to thebeach or renting a house.
You know, in a tourist area, um, I mean, I, I, I, I hate so
much for close family membersthat I know that I love and they
listened to this podcast thathave never done anything like
that.
Every year they go to the beachand they rent a house and they

(01:13:06):
love you know, they watch moviesand they've got their little
routine.
They go through, and I'm notI'm not criticizing that.
I'm just like if one time,instead of doing that, you would
take your family, you would gospend seven, eight, nine days at
an orphanage, it would.
It would return so much of aninvestment in your spirit and

(01:13:27):
heart.

Speaker 3 (01:13:27):
You could make that so much fun.
It's not like the whole time wewere at the orphanage.
We were digging trenches, wewere doing fun stuff with the
kids, but serving them and beingjust present with them.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
You played so much soccer.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
Yeah, so much soccer.
They yanked my hair outbraiding it every day, like just
stuff like that okay, well, I'mreally grateful you come on.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
I'd like to do it again sometime and maybe folks
could y'all email likeconversation you'd like for us
to have or questions you'd liketo ask lately and I'll let her
answer those and I'll just getout of the way.
We'll be totally transparent.
But anyway, thanks for comingon and taking the time.
It worked out because yourstudents, it's Friday, we're

(01:14:14):
recording this on a Friday.
Your students had to leave campearly.
They left this morning.
So, it worked out great.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
I've been wanting to do it for a while.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
Thanks.

Speaker 3 (01:14:23):
Yes, it's fun.

Speaker 4 (01:14:28):
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