January 27, 2025 • 54 mins
In this powerful episode, Brody sits down with Rob Conti to dive deep into the concept of Abiding in God’s Word.
Rob shares insights from his College Retreat Breakout session and reflects on the transformative power of Scripture in our lives. As they unpack the importance of fighting against idols, sin, and ideologies, they discuss how the Word of God equips us for spiritual warfare—helping us take down the strongholds of false beliefs and harmful ideologies in our hearts and minds.
Bullet Points from Rob's notes:
- Pray for Understanding: Ask God for wisdom and obedience.
- Read and Reread: Understand what the Bible says, means, and how it applies.
- Know the Context: Consider the background and literary style of the passage.
- Ask Questions: Who, what, where, why, when? Dig deeper.
- Use Tools: Check study Bibles, commentaries, and different translations.
- Avoid Bias: Don’t let personal views twist the meaning.
- Understand the Genre: Know if it’s a story or teaching.
- Look for Themes: Focus on key ideas like faith, redemption, or God’s character.
- Apply It: See how it speaks to your life—commands, promises, or warnings.
- Focus on Jesus: Every passage points to His redemptive work.
- Seek Help: Ask pastors or trusted believers for clarity.
- Reflect and Apply: Meditate on what you’ve learned and share it.
College Retreat Sessions
Teaching Slides Link
Breakout Notes Link
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today I had the opportunity to sit down with Rob
Conte.
Rob is one of the teachingpastors at SWO.
He's also so.
Rob and I are personal friends,have been for years Gosh, 25
years but then Rob and Ico-pastor at Red Oak Church and
(00:21):
then we co-pastor at snowbirdwilderness outfitters and rob is
, uh, he teaches in the snowbirdleadership institute.
He teaches, uh, bibleexposition and he also teaches
some books of the bible, doesstudies on those, and so I just
appreciate his understanding ofhow to study the scripture, how
(00:43):
to study it and prepare Rob.
Part of Rob's story ischallenges, even as a young guy
with learning disabilities, andthen to see just the Lord take
who he is as a faithful servantand bless and use him in the
ways that he's used him.
He's an encouragement to all ofthe team at SWO.
Many of the people that listento NSR will know Rob and I just
(01:08):
love his story because it'ssuper practical to listen to him
talk about studying the Bible.
But I love it in the context ofhis story because he didn't
come from a traditionalevangelical Christian background
.
Mom is a believer, but kind ofa broken family situation.
Rob came to faith at the end ofhis teenage years, and so it's
(01:32):
good to talk to a real personabout real things, but
especially as it pertains tostudying the scripture.
And so once we get into theintro with Rob here, I'll talk
about what brought this about.
But it was a recent SWO collegeretreat and some teaching that
Rob did that made me think.
You know what I think NSR crowdwould love to listen to this.
So that's where we're goingtoday.
(01:53):
Really grateful that you wouldtune in.
Welcome to no Sanity Required.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Welcome to no Sanity Required from the Ministry of
Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters.
A podcast about the Bible,culture and stories from around
the globe.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
This past weekend we had the two weekends ago rather
we had the annual conferencehere that is for college
students.
We call it College Retreat.
There's probably a strongretreat feel, but there's also a
conference feel.
There's a lot of teaching.
So we have main teachingsessions that are centered
(02:37):
around a worship service wherewe sing and worship the Lord.
It was an awesome weekend.
The weekend was so greatbecause we on Friday night we
had so much snow come in onFriday that we didn't feel like
it was safe to travel betweenthe two campuses and we had
maybe 20% no-show folks thatcouldn't come.
(03:00):
80% people showed up, which wasawesome.
They came in the snow, they gothere.
So it was kind of a cool feelto the retreat.
Friday night we met in the coopover on the Snowbird main
campus.
We did that again on Saturdaymorning and then we had about 40
to 50 people that showed up onSaturday morning.
They weren't here to kick itoff on Friday night.
(03:21):
They got in by lunch onSaturday.
So Saturday night we moved intothe Super Coupe, into this
location and we did Saturdaynight worship service and Sunday
morning worship service.
The focus, the teaching focus,of the college retreat was
idolatry and you know, when wethink of idolatry we tend to
(03:43):
either think of the idolatry ofthe ancients so pagan worship,
praying to statues, gravenimages carved with the hand or
we think of a more modern formof idolatry which is either
materialistic or hedonistic,meaning modern Western idolatry
(04:07):
tends to be the worship of thedollar, or security, or material
things or pleasure, just theworship of pleasure.
And probably the one area wepushed into that was a little
bit different than either ofthose was the idolatry of ideas
or the idolatry of ideology.
(04:28):
And before Rob and I get intothis conversation, I want to say
that what this episode is sortof growing out of is right now
there seems to be a turning ofthe tide in our society where
the last five years, especiallythe cascading effect of
everything that went on duringCOVID but we were kind of primed
(04:51):
for this sort of revolutionaryseason of it was a sexual
revolution.
There was like the rise of wokeideology.
There seems to have been anideological attack on
Christianity over the last fiveto seven years that looked a
little different.
There's always going to be anattack, but it just looked a
little different and it seemslike right now that's sort of
(05:14):
backed off.
It feels like the tide isturning and you're starting to
hear things a little differently.
Even most recently there seemsto be a surge in interest in
Christianity, a lot of thatcoming from leading podcasts,
secular, atheistic, agnostic.
There's one atheistic podcasterI was listening to a clip from
(05:37):
the other day where he's sayinghe said I don't believe in God,
I certainly don't trust the NewTestament gospel.
He said I don't believe in God,I certainly don't trust the New
Testament gospel, but we needChristianity, and Christian I
(05:58):
think he used words likeprinciples and convictions was
what he was getting at.
He was saying Christianityprovides sort of this moral
anchor for a society, for asociety, and there seems to be
right now.
Things seem to be a little biteasier than they've been over
the last five to seven years forChristians.
My fear is that Christians willget comfortable and back off
the throttle.
We were built for warfare.
We were built for spiritualwarfare.
(06:20):
When God gives us his spirit,the scripture says that we're to
take up the whole armor of Godin Ephesians 6.
And so we're made forpsychological, emotional,
academic, intellectual, mostimportantly spiritual conflict
and combat.
And so you'll see scripturethat speaks to the idea of
(06:44):
fighting back against ideologies.
Paul writing to the Corinthians,which is an extremely pagan
culture and city, and he saysthe weapons we fight with, or
the war that we wage, theweapons in that war, are not of
this world.
And then he goes on to explainessentially their spiritual
weapons and their ideologicalweapons.
He says the weapons of ourwarfare are not of this world.
(07:06):
On the contrary, they havedivine power, they're spiritual
to demolish strongholds.
So if it's a divine power todemolish a stronghold, that's an
ideological stronghold and tobring those strongholds down,
both in a person's mind andtheir own personal life, but
then I think in a culture or asociety.
(07:27):
So throughout history thegreatest ideological strongholds
that have collapsed havecollapsed under the weight of
gospel movements, things likeslavery.
What ultimately brought thatdown was gospel conviction or
biblical conviction.
The age of the Enlightenment,the rise of new atheism, any
(07:51):
secular movement or pagan orworldly movement that falls
typically falls under the weightof at least a moral conviction
that comes from biblicalprinciples.
And in our day we have tounderstand that, just because
the battle scene or dynamicseems to have shifted, we're
still in a war and as Christians, if we're going to take second
(08:14):
Corinthians, 10, four and saythe weapons we're fighting with
are not of this, not of thisworld.
They have this divine power todemolish strongholds on
societies, on families, on yourown personal mind the stronghold
of pornography, for instance.
To go kind of more into thepersonal realm, what's going to
bring the stronghold ofsomething like pornography down
is the power of the word of Godat work in your mind.
(08:36):
Reshaping the way you thinkDoesn't mean you're not going to
fall, doesn't mean you're.
You know, one of the guys we'vehad on the podcast is Gar
Bozeman, and Gar Bozeman gotshot in combat through the leg
and walked off the battlefieldbut walked off in pain.
And when he talks about howpainful that was and and what
(09:00):
that did to his, he got shotthrough the lower leg and it
just obliterated his leg and hetalks about taking his boot off
and the blood just pouring outand he's like man.
It was, it was crazy, but I wasnot about to die and for
Christians we have this securitythat in Christ we're not going
to die spiritually.
We've been given spiritual lifeand it's an eternal life.
(09:21):
But you're going to get shotthrough the leg.
You're going to look atsomething you shouldn't look at.
You're going to listen tosomething that is going to alter
, affect your affection towardsJesus, whatever it is.
We are at war.
And before I turn sort of toRob to walk through what he
taught on last weekendno-transcript.
(10:00):
The scripture additionally saysthat the word of God is like a
sword that is living and active.
And so there's this visualpicture of this combative weapon
.
And when I was a new ChristianI don't know if you remember
this I had bought a MacArthurstudy Bible was hard.
It was the first MacArthurstudy Bible that came out.
You remember these they werehard back and I bought one and I
(10:22):
wore it out.
I just wore the thing out.
I was in my late 20s.
I wore it out so bad that Iduct taped it.
I made a binder out of ducttape and I wrote on there Weapon
of War.
I was that zealous newChristian.
I didn't Sharpie.
But the Scripture is the swordof the Spirit, and so, as
Christians, we have the Spiritof God living in us.
(10:43):
And so, as Christians, we havethe Spirit of God living in us.
This is why Paul says in Romans8 that the Spirit of God is
living in us.
So if the Spirit of God isliving in you, put to death the
deeds of the flesh.
By the Spirit, by the Word ofGod, we can wage warfare, and so
(11:08):
, for the Christian, the word ofGod is critical to spiritual
formation in terms of how Ithink and how I develop as a
person, how my emotions are keptin check, but it's also
critical to my, to my warfare.
Nobody goes into combat withouta weapon right, and so one of
the things that we wanted toequip college students with this
past or two weekends ago andall of those sessions are
(11:30):
available.
You can go listen to those onthe main Snowbird Teaching
Podcast and those are beingposted.
But Rob did a breakout sessionthat after I sat and listened to
it, I realized this needs morethan a 40 minute, 35 minute
breakout session.
This needs a couple, a coupleof sessions and at least some
(11:53):
NSR episodes, and so I've askedRob to just come.
We're just going to walkthrough what he taught in that
session, and the last thingbefore we get into this is we'd
like to hear back from y'all Ifthis is something I've asked Rob
and he's more than willing todo this and excited about doing
it that next year at the collegeretreat, we would do an
(12:16):
afternoon seminar style teaching, where he would be here at the
North Campus, over in our mainteaching classroom area, north
Campus, over in our mainteaching classroom area, and
anybody wants to come.
It'd be an all-afternoonteaching on this subject matter,
which is the efficacy or theeffectiveness and potency of the
Scripture in a believer's life,and how do we use the Word of
God effectively.
(12:36):
How do we use the Word of Godstrategically effectively,
faithfully, rightly dividing it.
And so next year at the tree, Ithink that something will make
happen.
You're down for that.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Yeah and absolutely.
And it'd be cool to you know init where it wouldn't just be me
teaching but like walkingthrough aspects.
You know, I imagine we're goingto cover here in a minute of
bible study and then, okay,here's a passage, even if we
like say let's get in groups,talk about this, and then yeah,
(13:07):
like group discussion.
Like a lab, yeah, like a lab.
We do that in the Institute forthe exposition class and it's
always everyone's favorite partof that class, because there
you're getting that principleand then you're able to apply it
and work through it togetherand you know, it's, I think,
really productive.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Man, I'm excited about it.
It's one of those things whenwe get an idea to do something.
I hate it that it's a year away, right yeah like man, we should
do this right now.
Yeah, but they all went homeyep um, okay, so let's just get
into it.
Let's walk kind of, let's startoff by just talking about what
your, what your um breakoutsession was, sort of what it was
about, how you approached it,and kind of a synopsis, and then
(13:49):
we can just work through ityeah.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
so you know what I think we, we all have a
conviction, you know, we don'tever want to go too long really,
in almost any of the theretreats or conferences or camps
where we do breakouts to, wedon't want to get too far away
from what we've done, some sortof spiritual discipline,
especially on studying scripture, because it's so foundational
(14:14):
and like you elaborated on, likehow vital it is to our
spiritual health and that we getto walk in victory, not just
for ourselves but for our familyand community and for the lost.
And so, yeah, I knew I wantedto do it and I was thinking, you
know, spencer typically doesthe how to Study the Bible
(14:35):
breakouts and he's donedifferent versions of them over
the years and they're always myfavorite, like because he does
such a good job, you know, ofwalking through it.
And the last few times thathe's done it, uh, he's used this
really good analogy of uh, youknow the difference between
raking leaves and you know, like, digging for a gem, you know,
(14:56):
and how they're both.
You know necessary things to do, but when you're raking it's
not nearly the effort and you'reable to rake a lot in a little
bit of time.
Um, and there's value in thatand and so that has been
probably more of like the.
The thrust of those breakoutshas been in some why would you
(15:17):
study, you know, and how to setyourself up for success?
Really practical things likewhere are you going to do it,
what time are you going to do it, what, what, what are you going
to do it?
What time are you going to doit, what are you going to have
with you?
And so I thought, well, I mightwant to go a little bit more on
the digging aspect of.
You know there's value inreading just large quantities of
scripture and working throughyou know, if you do a year plan
(15:38):
or whatever it is, and that'sprimarily the raking idea where
you're not really slowing downto ask the same kind of in-depth
questions or dealing withdifficult passages.
But I do think it is vital tostudy Scripture the way that it
was written and the way that Ibelieve that Paul instructs us
(15:59):
to study it in 1 Timothy, whereyou do go into like, okay, not
just the reading of Scripturebut the interpreting and then
the intentional applying ofScripture.
And so that was the premise forthis breakout.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
It was good.
I sat through all of thebreakouts.
They were all good, but this isone that I think needs to be
constantly revisited.
But this is one that I thinkneeds to be constantly revisited
.
So let's just walk through.
Maybe the way you approached itand the content you took folks
through and then I might stopand ask questions get you to
(16:36):
elaborate.
That's great, because we're notso bound by time.
The nice thing about this is wecan always stretch things out,
slow things down.
We don't have a live audiencein front of us that we've got to
get them to the next thing.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Right, that's great.
So, yeah, I guess my startingpoint I just alluded to is so,
in you know, 1 and 2, timothyand Titus are.
We call them the pastoralepistles, and they really are,
because it's Paul instructingthese younger believers, but
leaders in the church, on how tolead the church, and so I think
(17:13):
it's gold for a pastor to go tostudent pastor, children's
pastor, you know, whatever youcall it, senior pastor, you know
to never get too far away fromthose letters, and in there he
really does tell Timothy how topreach.
But why that's so significantfor a breakout like this that's
(17:36):
primarily for folks that aren'tgoing to preach and maybe not
even leave the Sunday school ora small group is what he keeps
emphasizing to Timothy and toTitus is that the instruction
that he's giving them to followisn't just for them.
They're ultimately to be anexample of these principles for
(17:58):
the rest of the church to follow.
So he puts heavy emphasis oncorrect doctrine, right, the
understanding what the Bibleteaches on any given subject.
That that's vital.
And just as vital, then, isthat your life matches what you
believe, so that people are thenfollowing your example in both
(18:21):
your teaching and your life,your example in both your
teaching and your life, which awhole other session.
But you know, that's why it'sso important that pastors are
known by their people.
Um, you can't just show up andteach or you're only fulfilling
half of your role, um so, uh,pause, Yep, um, I'd like to talk
(18:43):
about that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Just, it can be brief .
Because, uh, I'd like to talkabout that a little bit.
It can be brief because I'dlike to know your thoughts on
our listeners know my thoughtson this, if they're consistent
listeners, I've addressed thisat different times your thoughts
on the role of the pastor inthe local church and how that
applies to multi-site churcheswhere the pastor's on the video
screen, right.
Could you articulate yourthoughts?
(19:05):
I mean, you just did, but thisis why it's important.
It's not just whoa.
This works because wheneveryone comes and sits in the
church building and they're at asatellite campus and we've got
pastor so-and-so on the screen,it's fine.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Here's why it's not fine and here's why what you
just said yeah, I think when Iread these letters, what becomes
clear is your job isn't only toexposit the text in your sermon
, but it's to exposit marriageto your family, to how you
respond to difficultcircumstances, to suffering, to
(19:59):
good stuff like abundance andwhatever.
How do you handle all that?
People need to see it and so Ithink the benefit of the doubt
side would be okay if they'rewatching somebody on the screen,
but then they do have shepherds, other pastors that maybe don't
preach, but they're there andthey're discipling.
(20:20):
I think that's a good thing,but I still think you're missing
that ingredient where theperson that they're trusting to
tell them and interpret for themthe word of God they're not
seeing that that's good.
I think it's a hole in the game.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
I appreciate having you comment on that, because I'm
pretty passionate about thistopic and I know that when
you're passionate aboutsomething you can become it
becomes sort of abrasive orcombative or critical, overly
critical, and I know God'sblessing some churches that are
(20:59):
doing it that way.
I just don't think it's justbecause God's blessing something
.
I mean, it's the best way to dosomething and there's something
powerful about the fact thatanybody that you know I'll use
Snowbird rather than Red Oakchurch I'm the lead pastor at.
Snowbird is one of the titlesthat's associated with my name.
There's not a human being thatcomes to Snowbird that doesn't
(21:21):
have access to me or you oranybody any of our pastors.
At any time during the retreat.
They have total accessibilityand Snowbird will never hear me.
They say never, say never.
Snowbird will never operatedifferent than that.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
We're not going to have celebrity status for
anybody that speaks.
We're not going to use a screenand and that's why it's because
a shepherd has got to smelllike sheep he's got to live
among the people, Right, and I'mvery passionate about that, and
so I appreciate that you sayit's not that it's just only bad
, it's.
(21:57):
It's just it's not the best wayto do something.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
And you know, and I think another you know, for guys
that are committed, you know,using that word expositions the
idea of you know you're gettingin your study, you're getting
the main point of the text thatyou're preaching out of and
making that the main point ofthe sermon, for a simple way to
say it.
But part of that process isyou're taking that biblical,
(22:24):
eternal truth and you'refashioning a sermon, you're
developing a sermon for yourlisteners, and so another thing
that you're missing out on islike, if you don't know your
people, you can still preach agood sermon.
And I think maybe we see this.
You know, like we try to stayin step with what's going on in
(22:45):
culture, what's facing, you know, middle schoolers, high
schoolers, college students,fathers and mothers like we want
to stay tapped into that.
You know, in our church, aspastors of our church it's even
we can be way more intentionalin knowing our people, because
you're not only expositing thetext, you should be expositing
(23:07):
your audience.
And then how does this?
Because when you get to thepoint of application, you can do
just a general application, butif you you know your people,
you can apply it right down towhere they live.
You know, and that that's againit's a whole another level that
you're able to really shepherdeffectively, and again I think
that's that's absent in thatmodel yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Anyway, I appreciate you shedding some more thought
and light on that, but anyway,go ahead, okay.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
So the passage I'm specifically talking about is 1
Timothy 4.13.
So I'll read it, because Ithink this is foundational to
the whole I guess method, wherePaul tells Timothy, the whole I
guess method, where Paul tellsTimothy until I come, devote
yourself to the public readingof scripture, to exhortation, to
(23:59):
teaching.
And he goes on to say practicethese things, immerse yourself
in them, persist in this.
And he puts so much weight onit he says for by doing this
you'll save both yourself andyour hearers.
I think it's the biggerumbrella term of salvation, not
just initial salvation butsanctification all the way up to
the point of glorification.
(24:20):
So he says, essentially, saysyou got three things that you
have to do and I'm telling youto focus your attention on is
read the word give the teaching,or some translations will say
doctrine, which is really whatit means and the exhortation.
And so, essentially, read thepassage, tell them what it says
(24:46):
give the doctrine, tell themwhat it means by what it says.
And then the exhortation, likeokay, how do you obey this, how
do you follow this?
Or we would say more typically,what's the application for me?
And so if that's how a pastoris supposed to handle the word
in the pulpit, it then by whatPaul's teaching in these letters
(25:06):
is how the members themselves,the church, any Christian, is
themselves supposed to handleScripture.
We should have that samepattern of approaching the Word
of God.
I'm going to read it and I'mgoing to study it to know what
God says, not what I think aboutwhat this says, not what I
think it means primarily.
(25:27):
It's primarily what did Godintend for me to get from this
passage?
And then what do I do with that?
How do I obey it, how do Ifollow it, how do I submit to it
?
And so there's just good,helpful perspective on how to
accomplish that.
(25:47):
So, yeah, reading more forcomprehension than just volume,
which again, again, is superbeneficial, and I try to do both
.
You know, sometimes I cheat,and when I'm driving around I'll
listen through Old Testamentbooks.
When, especially when my studythat's more in depth is in the
New Testament, which both it'snot only study the New Testament
(26:08):
, but that's typically where Ifind myself, but that's
typically where I find myself.
So yeah, it's choosing, which Ithink oftentimes, especially if
you go to a church where yourpastor preaches your books of
the Bible, then it's analley-oop of okay, well, I'm
going to study wherever ourchurch is, but it doesn't have
(26:28):
to be that.
I think your interest is notlike you're going to go wrong
With younger Christians,somebody new to studying the
Bible.
We typically say it can behelpful to start with a shorter
book that's more direct, like aPhilippians or James.
But you can't go wrong.
But, yeah, start to justreading it.
(26:50):
And what I advocate for andthis is just a method there's
some things in here that youknow we covered, that I think
are principle, like okay, wellthen, how do you best interpret
scripture?
And we've got 2000 years ofchurch history that you know
really good patterns.
What I advocate for, what helpsme, is when I first start a
(27:10):
study, so you know Philippiansor the book of Hebrews or
wherever, like I really start byjust reading it before I start
diving in, you know, to becomemore and more familiar with that
book of the Bible, not just soI know where things are, but
what the benefit of doing thatversus.
(27:32):
It's not how you would read youknow your favorite fiction book
or a history book or whatever,but you know this is the Word of
God that has transforming powerand doesn't return void.
It's going to have God's effectin your life when you're
submitting to it.
But what starts to happen?
One of the huge benefits is youbegin to see, like, okay, the
(27:55):
books of the Bible aren't justindividual verses strung
together randomly.
The author has an intendedpurpose for what he's saying and
typically, like you know, whenyou're in the Old Testament with
a narrative, the stories puttogether, or the Gospels, you
know, they're put together insuch a way to reveal theological
(28:19):
truth that, out of that fall,you know, is often examples to
follow or things to avoid.
But there's truth being told instory and so, okay, how is he
telling the story to reveal thattruth?
And the more that you read thatstory, you begin to see the
bigger picture and that mainpoint of like, okay, why is he
(28:42):
telling this story, why is hetelling it this way?
That main point of the storystarts to rise to the surface.
Same way with when we get intothe epistles, all the epistles.
There's an argument that flowsthrough that whole epistle.
There's themes that run throughthe epistle and the more that
you read it, those really dorise to the surface.
(29:04):
And that safeguards you whenyou see those things.
It safeguards you from readinginto the text and just reading
it and highlighting one verseand being like, oh, that's going
to be my life verse and take itout of its context.
You know, even for our winterretreats we're doing Philippians
(29:24):
and you know you got a signthat we just called it the Tebow
passage.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Yeah, I can do all things through Christ, who
strengthens me.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yeah, I can run touchdowns.
I can make all things throughChrist, who?
Speaker 1 (29:33):
strengthens me.
I can run touchdowns, I canmake it into law school.
It's not untrue, but it's notthe main point of that verse.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Yeah, and so making sure that you're not reading
into it, taking it out of itscontext.
If you take it out of itscontext, you know one you come
up with weird beliefs.
That's what false teachers haveto do.
A false teacher has to takeScripture.
He's going to use the Bible,but he's going to take it out of
its context, maybe just even alittle bit, but he's going to
(30:02):
pervert it.
He's going to twist it, becausethen your wrong beliefs are
going to have an impact on yourwhole life, how you apply it.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Is this where you used the illustration?
Somebody said could you give anexample and use David and
Goliath?
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Yeah.
I was talking about spirit.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
you know, beware of spiritualizing the text or out
of the horizon that was a littlebit later, I think, and it was
maybe in the Q&A, but this wouldbe a good spot.
I think that's a good examplefor people.
So how somebody might take thestory of David and Goliath out
of context was I was raised tobelieve that that was a story
about overcoming, you know, justgiants in your life or things
(30:43):
that seem to be more than youcan handle.
You can overcome those things.
Or when my oldest was a littlegirl 25, you know, quarter
century ago, the VeggieTaleswere rocking and they did the
David and Goliath story where itwas.
The whole tagline was withGod's help, little people can do
big things.
That's not the point of thestory.
(31:04):
Of course, I think MattChandler is the guy that became
famous for ranting about it.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
You're not David.
You're not David.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
You're not David, but that's a good one, I think.
The Tebow verse, but thenthat's a narrative.
That what's the point of theDavid and Goliath story.
Rob, following this, thatyou're explaining what's the
point of that story.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
The battle belongs to the Lord, to Yahweh.
And you see that in David'sspeech to Saul, right, he, you
know, when Saul's dismissing him, it's not because he, you know,
for whatever, like superficialreasons, he's dismissing David.
David doesn't say hey, you know, with God's help, you know, I
(31:49):
can defeat anything that comesagainst me.
You know, he says no, theLord's going to do it, he's
going to protect his name, he'sgoing to make his glory known,
you know, and he walks throughthat and that's why Saul's like
yeah, go, and he gives examplesof how the Lord had used him.
And I think and then there'sanother principle that you know
(32:10):
we'll come back to, or howeverthis weaves together there's
another principle that we'llcome back to, or however this
weaves together, where it's aprinciple that is biblical.
It's biblical to look for theredemptive focus of the passage,
and we take that from Jesushimself saying that all of
(32:31):
Scripture is about me, even aswe said that there's no verses
that just stand alone.
It's not a bunch of randomverses strung together.
Well, it's also not a bunch ofstories told in isolation and
you know, or doctrines taught inisolation.
Everything is woven together,like the books of the Bible make
(32:53):
up the bigger story ofredemption and that everything
is pointing to Christ, wherebecause you also don't want to
be a danger of just readingDavid Goliath the way that a
good Jew would you know, theJewish people could read the
story of David and Goliath andget similar points on the front
end.
But what a Christian needs toread David and Goliath and get
(33:14):
similar points on the front end?
But a Christian needs to readDavid and Goliath as a Christian
and ask the question where doesthis story stand in
relationship to the ultimateredemption that was displayed in
the life, death andresurrection of Jesus?
And that's where you begin tosee, oh, there is more at play
here.
David's not representing us somuch as he's representing Christ
(33:38):
.
You know, and I think a couplesummers ago, when you preached
through it, you did an awesomejob of laying that out.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yeah, even the point where, when you said the main
point is, the battle belongs tothe Lord, and that's what David.
David convinces King Saul.
This battle belongs to Yahweh.
Um, and, and I think it'simportant for people reading
that story to recognize, in thatmoment Saul is so convinced
that Yahweh is going to deliverthem that he lets this young man
(34:10):
go out and fight against thisseasoned warrior.
So I would not have let davidgo.
No, because if david loses,saul becomes a slave, which
means he's going to have hiseyes gouged out and his you know
potentially terrible thingsdone to his body right, and then
ultimately executed.
And but so he lets this kid go.
(34:30):
It's not like, okay, youconvinced me, you killed some
lines.
Yeah, you're, I think you'rethe man for the job.
It's.
He convinces saul that thebattle belongs to yahweh.
That's good and I think that isthe.
That is the.
That is this monumental momentin the story that later I would
I would even say serves tocondemn saul.
(34:52):
Saul acknowledged who Yahweh isand still rebelled against it.
He rebelled against hisrecognition of Yahweh's
sovereignty.
In that moment, that's good.
I love the way you walk throughthat.
So one other thing you saidthat redemptive focus.
I think that's importantbecause a lot of people, I want
(35:16):
to say, the older I get, theless critical I am of the way
people do their devotions, andso we had a conversation about
this yesterday Some of the youngteaching team it was, I think
it was me, dawson and Zay atlunch yesterday.
It was, I think it was me,dawson and Zay at lunch
yesterday and we're talkingabout how there seems to be a
(35:36):
tendency to be critical.
Oh, alex, your nephew was there, alex Connors, so it was Alex,
zay, dawson and me and we'resitting there and we're talking
about how my devotions in themorning probably look more
simple.
They probably look more likethey looked when I was a
(35:56):
one-year-old Christian now RightThan when I was 15 years into
my faith journey and waslearning how to preach and
prepare sermons, because I'vekind of walked it back to and
you talk about this in themorning.
(36:17):
I get up.
The first thing I do is Ihydrate my brain.
It's proven that cold waterrehydrates not just your body
but your soul and your brain.
Your brain is dehydrated, sodrink in that water, get myself
and I get in front of the uh, Itake a cold shower and I turn
all the lights on in thebathroom and I kind of get woke
up, good, and then I go and 20minutes after I'm out of bed
(36:37):
I've got that cup of coffee andI sit down and I listen to the
scripture.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
The last three mornings I have listened to the
book of Philippians and I'velistened to Romans, chapter
eight.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Romans eight is what we're preaching next summer.
Philippians is what we're doingfor winter, and I listen to
them and then I'll go backthrough and make notes or write
my own devotion and and I wantpeople to feel free to, to not
have to follow someone else'sschedule, right, as long as
these principles are in placeand the conversation yesterday
(37:10):
turned to the our daily breaddevotional, because I use that
with my kids and so there'snothing I want to say.
I use our daily breaddevotional.
There's nothing wrong withdoing those things.
However, you got to work at it alittle bit and engage your
brain, your mind, yourimagination to say what is the
(37:32):
main point of this passage?
What's this teaching me aboutJesus?
What's it teaching me about sinand redemption, rather than, is
this giving me an anecdotallife lesson for today?
Right, so there's a fine line.
There's a tension that we needto walk, walk around with.
Where it's like I can, I candrink in a devotional thought
and it can sort of nourish andhydrate my early morning soul,
(37:56):
but I also need to press into,okay, what's this mean for me?
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Yeah, and yeah, I do the same thing.
I said it in the breakout themornings I really listen to
somebody else read and I readalong.
It keeps me more engaged atthat hour while I'm sipping
coffee, um, and then really Ilisten and I and I pray, and
that, uh, I journal my prayers,um, which is a huge part of
(38:23):
approaching scripture.
Um, I just journal my prayersout, I type them because it
helps, again, it helps keep mybrain engaged and it really is
that simple.
And then for me, I love my jobhere because it affords me time
to study whatever is coming upnext, or going over a sermon
(38:45):
prep.
But yeah, they're tools andthey're just ways.
The ultimate goal of studyingthe Bible ultimate, there's more
, but ultimate is you arespending time with Jesus.
You know it's his word, hisspirit lives in you and you're
spending time with him.
When you're just listening,large volume, if you're diving
(39:08):
deep, you're spending time withChrist and we're trusting that
his word is true and it renewsour mind.
We submit to having a mind ofChrist, that we begin to see the
world the way he sees it.
We begin to see God the way hereally is, ourselves, the world
around us.
Why we're here?
It's a guard against idolatry.
(39:32):
We're doing what Colossians 3says, which is to set our mind
on the things above, whereChrist is.
That's the goal is becoming morelike Christ by spending time
with him, and so, yeah, at theend of the day, what works for
you is awesome, you know.
I think this deeper dive is,you know, I think it is
(39:56):
important in where you know.
The Bible says you know to testthings and to not get swept.
James says you know, notgetting sucked into different
winds of doctrine.
You know the way you protectyourself against that is, you're
not being at the mercy ofsomebody else just telling you
what it means, and that's bylearning how to discern
(40:20):
Scripture and have Scripture inyour mind as a filter that
everything else has to passthrough, Whether it's awesome
resources like Our Daily Breador Morning and Evening with
Spurgeon, or listening to apodcast or a sermon series by
somebody you don't even know,just online, the more that
scripture is in your mind.
(40:41):
You can listen without beinglike a critical punk.
But you'll catch things thatare like, oh, what did he mean
by that?
Or oh man, that really doesn'tseem to be what that passage is
saying.
It doesn't mean you disregardeverything going on, but you're
just not going to get sucked into something.
That's maybe a badunderstanding of scripture.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Um, and so that's where this is, I think, very
valuable we'll also include uhjb, let's make sure we've got
Rob's outlines and notes linkedup so if you're watching this
especially, you can just pullthose notes up and as Rob's
walking through this, you can befollowing that and then also we
(41:28):
can.
We always want, we welcomequestions you're hearing.
You need clarifying thought orquestion, then please ask us
those because we can addressthem.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
No, I think somewhere in here I had analogy.
I don't know if it's a good one, but it worked for me.
You know, to that point of like, you know, it's a process and
something to grow in, where,like, yeah, you know, I would
never want somebody to feeldiscouraged of, like, oh, that's
overwhelming, or man, I reallydon't know how to actually do
(42:04):
that myself where it's like totake time to grow in it.
And you know, I I just lovefootball and it's, you know, a
lot of times I have to deletethose.
I always want to use thoseillustrations because it's the
first one that pops in my headand I'm like, okay, I don't want
to be just a football guy,especially since I, you know,
never played.
But you know, I was thinking youcan enjoy a football game
(42:28):
without knowing any of the rules, you know without knowing any
of the rules.
Or you can enjoy a footballgame knowing schemes and being
able to.
Most people know myfather-in-law.
His whole career has beencoaching at the collegiate level
and the NFL level and, honestly, there's times where if he's
(42:50):
over and there's a game on orwe're at third place, the normal
comments I would make.
I'm like, you know, but I'mtrying to ask questions of like
what is he seeing you?
know, like because he's seeingthings that I'm not seeing and
so he's taking in that game onanother level, I think.
(43:14):
But there's also, you know, oneof my daughters watching and
they, they, they'll be in andout and they enjoy a good play,
you know, like a long bomb or agood hit or a sack or whatever.
Like they can enjoy the gamewithout knowing all the all that
stuff going on.
But the, you know, but itdoesn't.
But, yeah, but you can grow themore you watch it, right, like
you're going to pick up rulesand like you know, sarah, she'll
always be like, oh, how did youknow?
That was what the penalty was.
(43:35):
And it's not necessarily I sawit because of the way that the
cameras are.
It's more of just how everyonereacted after the play and I'm
like, oh, that was holding.
She's like, oh, who was?
Speaker 1 (43:45):
I don't know, I didn't see it, I just I know
it's holding yeah, and so Ithink the flag was thrown where.
What the timing in the play?
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (43:53):
um.
And so I think, then, to enjoywhere you're at and not to feel
like, oh, I'm behind, or like apressure, like don't put a
pressure on yourself whereyou're, like I'm not doing this
well enough, like spend timewith Jesus.
You know, being in the word isits own reward, you know, while
like, yeah, I want to grow inthis, and the more time that I
(44:14):
do this and the more I practiceit, I'll be better at
interpreting the Bible and I'llbe better at applying the Bible
and submitting to it.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, that's good.
I appreciate that a lot I thinkabout.
So Josh Dunn, who a lot of ourlisteners will know Josh, many
probably will not, but a lotwill.
Josh runs the registrationdepartment at SWO.
He runs the front office andhe's a really good outdoorsman.
Josh is a phenomenaloutdoorsman.
(44:45):
He fly fishes, he bait, castfishes, he has bird dogs, he
upland bird hunts.
He'll go to Nebraska kansas andgo out there pheasant hunt.
He's, you know, he's been outwest and killed elk.
He's uh, he's an accomplishedhunter locally.
Well, he's a good hunter buthe's not a ballistics guy and I,
(45:10):
I, I kind of geek out over thatstuff.
And so I had developed a handload.
I've talked about this on anepisode one time.
Basically, you develop.
Oh, when John Rouleauinterviewed me he asked me what
does that mean?
Basically you build your ownhunting ammunition.
But I developed a load where,when I would shoot that in my
(45:34):
rifle at 200 yards, you couldcover five shots with a quarter.
So if people don't have aconcept, just that's very
accurate very good, yeah, it'svery accurate to do that.
You're measuring to the, to thetenth of a grain, the amount of
powder that's going into a shell.
You're you're making your.
I'm weight checking everyprojectile to make sure they all
(45:57):
came from the same factorybatch of bullets.
Do they all weigh exactly inthat load 160 grains, not 160.1,
whatever?
By the time I put thatammunition together and go shoot
, I have a high expectation.
Well, josh was ready to throwhis rifle away because he was
shooting at 100 yards.
His groups were an inch and ahalf around.
(46:18):
Well, that's perfect.
You can hunt all over NorthAmerica with a gun that shoots
that accurate.
He's buying his ammunition fromthe store so it's not going to
be as precise.
And then he's going out andhe's shooting.
You can hit an animal out to400's shooting.
You can hit an animal out to400 yards if you know how to
shoot with ammunition like that.
And so I remember he had, hehad, he was burning through
(46:40):
money buying different ammo.
I gotta get it to shoot.
And finally I remember justsaying oh, you know what, I
don't think you're gonna get itto shoot the same way that hand
load shoots.
Just enjoy this man.
Just enjoy hunting and shooting, and you're a really good
hunter.
You're not a ballistics guy,but you're a really good hunter.
You're not a ballistics guy,but you're a really good hunter.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Just keep killing stuff and feeding your family
and having fun.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
You know, like if you have the spirit of Jesus in you
, you're a really good Christian, right, because Jesus is the
one that's in you that bringsthe goodness.
You're not good because you'remoral.
You're not good because yourquiet time is two hours long and
you parse Greek verbs and youbreak down sentences in the
original grammar, and you're agood Christian because of Christ
(47:21):
in you.
What scripture enables me to dois be in tune with Christ in me
and to submit to Christ in me.
It helps me to understand howto engage my mind.
Don't overthink it, don'toverdo it.
Just love the Lord with allyour heart, soul, mind and
strength, and know that somepeople like a Rob Conte Rob
teaches a biblical expositionclass.
(47:42):
We learn from people like this,but enjoy it for what it is and
just be faithful to thescripture.
I think that's what I'm hearingyou say and describe, and I also
love CS Lewis's illustration ofthe scripture.
I think that's what I'm hearingyou say and describe, and and I
also love CS Lewis'sillustration of the ocean.
A child can enjoy that.
I use this all the time withstudents.
A child can play in the oceanand this much water and love it.
And the greatest explorers ofour day have gone to the depths
(48:06):
of the ocean and there's stillmystery.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
Yeah.
The word of God is like thatthat's good, yeah, the word of
God is like that.
That's good, yeah, you know.
And Peter says you know, desire, like a baby desires milk,
right, desire, the pure word ofGod.
And what he's focusing on isthe desire.
You know, he's not saying justdrink milk, or when you're a new
(48:31):
Christian, just you know.
Keep it simple.
But the point is like is todesire it?
Like that, with Scripture itworks.
Like the more that we are in itand spending time in our new
environment, that's what buildsthe desire.
Our stomachs desire food.
They desire food when they'rehungry, and the more hungry you
(48:53):
get, you know, the more you wantthe food.
Well, what scripture almostworks the opposite way.
Like, the more that you have it, the the greater your hunger is
for it.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
and so it's like metabolism, where the harder
you're training and working, themore food you want right and it
seems.
Seems counterproductive.
Because a marathon runner youthink that guy, I going to start
running and I need to lose someweight.
So I'm going to diet andexercise.
But the exercise makes you wantto eat more Right, but the
exercise also makes you burn thefood up faster, so you need
(49:23):
more food to be able to exercise.
But it's not counterproductiveif you're eating the right thing
, that's good.
It generates greater appetite,but then the food you take in
goes to work.
Speaker 3 (49:33):
That's good um oh, one story.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Yeah, we're dowd.
Go, one of our one of our guyson the team that's behind the
camera when this before he wasborn, probably he might have
been an infant little baby.
I was little and I went to hischurch do a d now no, he wasn't
born yet.
I know he wasn't and, uh, hispastor.
He grew up with a really goodfriend of mine, john G Tate, and
(49:57):
I've talked about John Johnhere before, but he was doing a
D now, which is, if you don'twant to D now as a discipleship
weekend for students and you.
It's a small group structure andI was leading the high school
junior and senior boys.
I was leading the high schooljunior and senior boys and for
Saturday night of the day now,everybody had to do a skit, and
(50:27):
so what I did for our skit is wewent in the backyard of the
people that hosted whose home westayed in.
So I had 12 high school seniorboys and we did the gallon
challenge in their backyard,which is where you try to the
original gallon challenge.
You try to chug a gallon ofwhole milk in an hour and not
vomit.
But we changed the rules.
So this is when the ruleschanged.
Was at this D now I said, guys,I don't have an hour to watch
(50:47):
you drink milk and be sick.
Let's see how fast you candrink a gallon of milk and how
far you can projectile vomit,and we'll video you doing this.
So we did it, we videoed thewhole thing and then we
time-lapsed it.
I think all 12 guys had drunktheir milk within 15 minutes and
there was so much vomit in thatbackyard and we videoed the
(51:11):
whole thing and showed it inchurch.
They're going to do the skits.
So the different people comingup and doing their skits.
I'm yeah, this is the latenineties, I'm pretty new in
student ministry and I rememberI had one of the this one guy
they called him a pork chop thisone kid that just ate all the
time and he comes out and hisjob was to read that verse you
should crave the meat of theword, not pure spiritual milk.
And then boom, hit, play, andit's guys drinking milk and
(51:34):
puking in a time lapse, twominute video.
And when it got, when we gotdone, there were there were a
few people in the church thathad a sense of humor right and
they were.
They were quietly enjoyingthemselves yes, but they weren't
going to get your back thoughno, they were not gonna get my
back, and john g was a youthpastor at that time and he was
forbid from asking me to comeback and help out.
(51:55):
So anyway to say that's notwhat it means.
When Peter's saying crave themilk, he's not saying get off
the milk and get to the meat.
And if you're drinking the milkand you're being, I still love
the simple things of Scriptureyou don't quit loving that.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Yeah, you don't quit loving that.
Yeah, and the, the in Hebrewsat the end of chapter five,
beginning of chapter six, whenhe says, uh, he's rebuking them.
And he says you know you becomedull hearing.
You need me to go over thebasic stuff again.
He says you need milk, notsolid food.
For everyone who lives on, milkis unskilled in the word of
righteousness, since he is achild, but solid food is for the
(52:32):
mature, for those who havetheir powers of discernment,
trained by constant practice,distinguish good from evil.
What's interesting there ishe's saying he's not disparaging
the basic truth of the gospel.
What he's calling them out onis you're not applying it.
And he's like him out on isyou're not applying it and he's
(52:57):
like it's not that if I go on todeeper truths about jesus being
, you know, like melchizedek,that oh, you just won't
understand it because you'rechildlike.
He's calling my eyes like Iwant to go on to deeper things,
but you're not obeying thesimple truth.
And so it's interesting, evenin that passage he's saying yeah
, like it's not that there'sthings that we just leave behind
(53:18):
, like we don't need themanymore like we still all need,
yeah, the abcs of the gospel.
You know like we don't move onfrom it, just like you don't
move on from the abcs.
As a adult, you don't recitethe abcs all the time, but you
use them in every word andsentence and paragraph and you
speak and understand.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
That's good, all right.
Well, let's stop there.
We're going to have a followupepisode.
We're not done, we're justgetting going.
Speaker 3 (53:44):
We didn't even get as far as I got in the breakout.
It was awesome.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
Well, that's the beauty of this is we're doing as
many episodes as we want to do,so we'll try to keep these
under an hour so folks canlisten, think about it, take
some notes, go back, re, re,listen.
So we'll stop there and we'vegot a lot of cool content coming
through NSR over the next fewweeks.
I've got a lot of cool stuffoutlined, but we're also going
(54:07):
to just bring you more of this.
We'll stop here and come backwith the next episode.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
Thanks for listening to.
No sanity required.
Please take a moment tosubscribe and leave a rating.
It really helps.
Visit us at sw outfitters dotcom to see all of our
programming and resources, andwe'll see you next week on no
sanity required.
Today I had the opportunity to sit down with Rob
Conte.
Rob is one of the teachingpastors at SWO.
He's also so.
Rob and I are personal friends,have been for years Gosh, 25
years but then Rob and Ico-pastor at Red Oak Church and
(00:21):
then we co-pastor at snowbirdwilderness outfitters and rob is
, uh, he teaches in the snowbirdleadership institute.
He teaches, uh, bibleexposition and he also teaches
some books of the bible, doesstudies on those, and so I just
appreciate his understanding ofhow to study the scripture, how
(00:43):
to study it and prepare Rob.
Part of Rob's story ischallenges, even as a young guy
with learning disabilities, andthen to see just the Lord take
who he is as a faithful servantand bless and use him in the
ways that he's used him.
He's an encouragement to all ofthe team at SWO.
Many of the people that listento NSR will know Rob and I just
(01:08):
love his story because it'ssuper practical to listen to him
talk about studying the Bible.
But I love it in the context ofhis story because he didn't
come from a traditionalevangelical Christian background
.
Mom is a believer, but kind ofa broken family situation.
Rob came to faith at the end ofhis teenage years, and so it's
(01:32):
good to talk to a real personabout real things, but
especially as it pertains tostudying the scripture.
And so once we get into theintro with Rob here, I'll talk
about what brought this about.
But it was a recent SWO collegeretreat and some teaching that
Rob did that made me think.
You know what I think NSR crowdwould love to listen to this.
So that's where we're goingtoday.
(01:53):
Really grateful that you wouldtune in.
Welcome to no Sanity Required.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Welcome to no Sanity Required from the Ministry of
Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters.
A podcast about the Bible,culture and stories from around
the globe.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
This past weekend we had the two weekends ago rather
we had the annual conferencehere that is for college
students.
We call it College Retreat.
There's probably a strongretreat feel, but there's also a
conference feel.
There's a lot of teaching.
So we have main teachingsessions that are centered
(02:37):
around a worship service wherewe sing and worship the Lord.
It was an awesome weekend.
The weekend was so greatbecause we on Friday night we
had so much snow come in onFriday that we didn't feel like
it was safe to travel betweenthe two campuses and we had
maybe 20% no-show folks thatcouldn't come.
(03:00):
80% people showed up, which wasawesome.
They came in the snow, they gothere.
So it was kind of a cool feelto the retreat.
Friday night we met in the coopover on the Snowbird main
campus.
We did that again on Saturdaymorning and then we had about 40
to 50 people that showed up onSaturday morning.
They weren't here to kick itoff on Friday night.
(03:21):
They got in by lunch onSaturday.
So Saturday night we moved intothe Super Coupe, into this
location and we did Saturdaynight worship service and Sunday
morning worship service.
The focus, the teaching focus,of the college retreat was
idolatry and you know, when wethink of idolatry we tend to
(03:43):
either think of the idolatry ofthe ancients so pagan worship,
praying to statues, gravenimages carved with the hand or
we think of a more modern formof idolatry which is either
materialistic or hedonistic,meaning modern Western idolatry
(04:07):
tends to be the worship of thedollar, or security, or material
things or pleasure, just theworship of pleasure.
And probably the one area wepushed into that was a little
bit different than either ofthose was the idolatry of ideas
or the idolatry of ideology.
(04:28):
And before Rob and I get intothis conversation, I want to say
that what this episode is sortof growing out of is right now
there seems to be a turning ofthe tide in our society where
the last five years, especiallythe cascading effect of
everything that went on duringCOVID but we were kind of primed
(04:51):
for this sort of revolutionaryseason of it was a sexual
revolution.
There was like the rise of wokeideology.
There seems to have been anideological attack on
Christianity over the last fiveto seven years that looked a
little different.
There's always going to be anattack, but it just looked a
little different and it seemslike right now that's sort of
(05:14):
backed off.
It feels like the tide isturning and you're starting to
hear things a little differently.
Even most recently there seemsto be a surge in interest in
Christianity, a lot of thatcoming from leading podcasts,
secular, atheistic, agnostic.
There's one atheistic podcasterI was listening to a clip from
(05:37):
the other day where he's sayinghe said I don't believe in God,
I certainly don't trust the NewTestament gospel.
He said I don't believe in God,I certainly don't trust the New
Testament gospel, but we needChristianity, and Christian I
(05:58):
think he used words likeprinciples and convictions was
what he was getting at.
He was saying Christianityprovides sort of this moral
anchor for a society, for asociety, and there seems to be
right now.
Things seem to be a little biteasier than they've been over
the last five to seven years forChristians.
My fear is that Christians willget comfortable and back off
the throttle.
We were built for warfare.
We were built for spiritualwarfare.
(06:20):
When God gives us his spirit,the scripture says that we're to
take up the whole armor of Godin Ephesians 6.
And so we're made forpsychological, emotional,
academic, intellectual, mostimportantly spiritual conflict
and combat.
And so you'll see scripturethat speaks to the idea of
(06:44):
fighting back against ideologies.
Paul writing to the Corinthians,which is an extremely pagan
culture and city, and he saysthe weapons we fight with, or
the war that we wage, theweapons in that war, are not of
this world.
And then he goes on to explainessentially their spiritual
weapons and their ideologicalweapons.
He says the weapons of ourwarfare are not of this world.
(07:06):
On the contrary, they havedivine power, they're spiritual
to demolish strongholds.
So if it's a divine power todemolish a stronghold, that's an
ideological stronghold and tobring those strongholds down,
both in a person's mind andtheir own personal life, but
then I think in a culture or asociety.
(07:27):
So throughout history thegreatest ideological strongholds
that have collapsed havecollapsed under the weight of
gospel movements, things likeslavery.
What ultimately brought thatdown was gospel conviction or
biblical conviction.
The age of the Enlightenment,the rise of new atheism, any
(07:51):
secular movement or pagan orworldly movement that falls
typically falls under the weightof at least a moral conviction
that comes from biblicalprinciples.
And in our day we have tounderstand that, just because
the battle scene or dynamicseems to have shifted, we're
still in a war and as Christians, if we're going to take second
(08:14):
Corinthians, 10, four and saythe weapons we're fighting with
are not of this, not of thisworld.
They have this divine power todemolish strongholds on
societies, on families, on yourown personal mind the stronghold
of pornography, for instance.
To go kind of more into thepersonal realm, what's going to
bring the stronghold ofsomething like pornography down
is the power of the word of Godat work in your mind.
(08:36):
Reshaping the way you thinkDoesn't mean you're not going to
fall, doesn't mean you're.
You know, one of the guys we'vehad on the podcast is Gar
Bozeman, and Gar Bozeman gotshot in combat through the leg
and walked off the battlefieldbut walked off in pain.
And when he talks about howpainful that was and and what
(09:00):
that did to his, he got shotthrough the lower leg and it
just obliterated his leg and hetalks about taking his boot off
and the blood just pouring outand he's like man.
It was, it was crazy, but I wasnot about to die and for
Christians we have this securitythat in Christ we're not going
to die spiritually.
We've been given spiritual lifeand it's an eternal life.
(09:21):
But you're going to get shotthrough the leg.
You're going to look atsomething you shouldn't look at.
You're going to listen tosomething that is going to alter
, affect your affection towardsJesus, whatever it is.
We are at war.
And before I turn sort of toRob to walk through what he
taught on last weekendno-transcript.
(10:00):
The scripture additionally saysthat the word of God is like a
sword that is living and active.
And so there's this visualpicture of this combative weapon
.
And when I was a new ChristianI don't know if you remember
this I had bought a MacArthurstudy Bible was hard.
It was the first MacArthurstudy Bible that came out.
You remember these they werehard back and I bought one and I
(10:22):
wore it out.
I just wore the thing out.
I was in my late 20s.
I wore it out so bad that Iduct taped it.
I made a binder out of ducttape and I wrote on there Weapon
of War.
I was that zealous newChristian.
I didn't Sharpie.
But the Scripture is the swordof the Spirit, and so, as
Christians, we have the Spiritof God living in us.
(10:43):
And so, as Christians, we havethe Spirit of God living in us.
This is why Paul says in Romans8 that the Spirit of God is
living in us.
So if the Spirit of God isliving in you, put to death the
deeds of the flesh.
By the Spirit, by the Word ofGod, we can wage warfare, and so
(11:08):
, for the Christian, the word ofGod is critical to spiritual
formation in terms of how Ithink and how I develop as a
person, how my emotions are keptin check, but it's also
critical to my, to my warfare.
Nobody goes into combat withouta weapon right, and so one of
the things that we wanted toequip college students with this
past or two weekends ago andall of those sessions are
(11:30):
available.
You can go listen to those onthe main Snowbird Teaching
Podcast and those are beingposted.
But Rob did a breakout sessionthat after I sat and listened to
it, I realized this needs morethan a 40 minute, 35 minute
breakout session.
This needs a couple, a coupleof sessions and at least some
(11:53):
NSR episodes, and so I've askedRob to just come.
We're just going to walkthrough what he taught in that
session, and the last thingbefore we get into this is we'd
like to hear back from y'all Ifthis is something I've asked Rob
and he's more than willing todo this and excited about doing
it that next year at the collegeretreat, we would do an
(12:16):
afternoon seminar style teaching, where he would be here at the
North Campus, over in our mainteaching classroom area, north
Campus, over in our mainteaching classroom area, and
anybody wants to come.
It'd be an all-afternoonteaching on this subject matter,
which is the efficacy or theeffectiveness and potency of the
Scripture in a believer's life,and how do we use the Word of
God effectively.
(12:36):
How do we use the Word of Godstrategically effectively,
faithfully, rightly dividing it.
And so next year at the tree, Ithink that something will make
happen.
You're down for that.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Yeah and absolutely.
And it'd be cool to you know init where it wouldn't just be me
teaching but like walkingthrough aspects.
You know, I imagine we're goingto cover here in a minute of
bible study and then, okay,here's a passage, even if we
like say let's get in groups,talk about this, and then yeah,
(13:07):
like group discussion.
Like a lab, yeah, like a lab.
We do that in the Institute forthe exposition class and it's
always everyone's favorite partof that class, because there
you're getting that principleand then you're able to apply it
and work through it togetherand you know, it's, I think,
really productive.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Man, I'm excited about it.
It's one of those things whenwe get an idea to do something.
I hate it that it's a year away, right yeah like man, we should
do this right now.
Yeah, but they all went homeyep um, okay, so let's just get
into it.
Let's walk kind of, let's startoff by just talking about what
your, what your um breakoutsession was, sort of what it was
about, how you approached it,and kind of a synopsis, and then
(13:49):
we can just work through ityeah.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
so you know what I think we, we all have a
conviction, you know, we don'tever want to go too long really,
in almost any of the theretreats or conferences or camps
where we do breakouts to, wedon't want to get too far away
from what we've done, some sortof spiritual discipline,
especially on studying scripture, because it's so foundational
(14:14):
and like you elaborated on, likehow vital it is to our
spiritual health and that we getto walk in victory, not just
for ourselves but for our familyand community and for the lost.
And so, yeah, I knew I wantedto do it and I was thinking, you
know, spencer typically doesthe how to Study the Bible
(14:35):
breakouts and he's donedifferent versions of them over
the years and they're always myfavorite, like because he does
such a good job, you know, ofwalking through it.
And the last few times thathe's done it, uh, he's used this
really good analogy of uh, youknow the difference between
raking leaves and you know, like, digging for a gem, you know,
(14:56):
and how they're both.
You know necessary things to do, but when you're raking it's
not nearly the effort and you'reable to rake a lot in a little
bit of time.
Um, and there's value in thatand and so that has been
probably more of like the.
The thrust of those breakoutshas been in some why would you
(15:17):
study, you know, and how to setyourself up for success?
Really practical things likewhere are you going to do it,
what time are you going to do it, what, what, what are you going
to do it?
What time are you going to doit, what are you going to have
with you?
And so I thought, well, I mightwant to go a little bit more on
the digging aspect of.
You know there's value inreading just large quantities of
scripture and working throughyou know, if you do a year plan
(15:38):
or whatever it is, and that'sprimarily the raking idea where
you're not really slowing downto ask the same kind of in-depth
questions or dealing withdifficult passages.
But I do think it is vital tostudy Scripture the way that it
was written and the way that Ibelieve that Paul instructs us
(15:59):
to study it in 1 Timothy, whereyou do go into like, okay, not
just the reading of Scripturebut the interpreting and then
the intentional applying ofScripture.
And so that was the premise forthis breakout.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
It was good.
I sat through all of thebreakouts.
They were all good, but this isone that I think needs to be
constantly revisited.
But this is one that I thinkneeds to be constantly revisited
.
So let's just walk through.
Maybe the way you approached itand the content you took folks
through and then I might stopand ask questions get you to
(16:36):
elaborate.
That's great, because we're notso bound by time.
The nice thing about this is wecan always stretch things out,
slow things down.
We don't have a live audiencein front of us that we've got to
get them to the next thing.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Right, that's great.
So, yeah, I guess my startingpoint I just alluded to is so,
in you know, 1 and 2, timothyand Titus are.
We call them the pastoralepistles, and they really are,
because it's Paul instructingthese younger believers, but
leaders in the church, on how tolead the church, and so I think
(17:13):
it's gold for a pastor to go tostudent pastor, children's
pastor, you know, whatever youcall it, senior pastor, you know
to never get too far away fromthose letters, and in there he
really does tell Timothy how topreach.
But why that's so significantfor a breakout like this that's
(17:36):
primarily for folks that aren'tgoing to preach and maybe not
even leave the Sunday school ora small group is what he keeps
emphasizing to Timothy and toTitus is that the instruction
that he's giving them to followisn't just for them.
They're ultimately to be anexample of these principles for
(17:58):
the rest of the church to follow.
So he puts heavy emphasis oncorrect doctrine, right, the
understanding what the Bibleteaches on any given subject.
That that's vital.
And just as vital, then, isthat your life matches what you
believe, so that people are thenfollowing your example in both
(18:21):
your teaching and your life,your example in both your
teaching and your life, which awhole other session.
But you know, that's why it'sso important that pastors are
known by their people.
Um, you can't just show up andteach or you're only fulfilling
half of your role, um so, uh,pause, Yep, um, I'd like to talk
(18:43):
about that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Just, it can be brief .
Because, uh, I'd like to talkabout that a little bit.
It can be brief because I'dlike to know your thoughts on
our listeners know my thoughtson this, if they're consistent
listeners, I've addressed thisat different times your thoughts
on the role of the pastor inthe local church and how that
applies to multi-site churcheswhere the pastor's on the video
screen, right.
Could you articulate yourthoughts?
(19:05):
I mean, you just did, but thisis why it's important.
It's not just whoa.
This works because wheneveryone comes and sits in the
church building and they're at asatellite campus and we've got
pastor so-and-so on the screen,it's fine.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Here's why it's not fine and here's why what you
just said yeah, I think when Iread these letters, what becomes
clear is your job isn't only toexposit the text in your sermon
, but it's to exposit marriageto your family, to how you
respond to difficultcircumstances, to suffering, to
(19:59):
good stuff like abundance andwhatever.
How do you handle all that?
People need to see it and so Ithink the benefit of the doubt
side would be okay if they'rewatching somebody on the screen,
but then they do have shepherds, other pastors that maybe don't
preach, but they're there andthey're discipling.
(20:20):
I think that's a good thing,but I still think you're missing
that ingredient where theperson that they're trusting to
tell them and interpret for themthe word of God they're not
seeing that that's good.
I think it's a hole in the game.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
I appreciate having you comment on that, because I'm
pretty passionate about thistopic and I know that when
you're passionate aboutsomething you can become it
becomes sort of abrasive orcombative or critical, overly
critical, and I know God'sblessing some churches that are
(20:59):
doing it that way.
I just don't think it's justbecause God's blessing something
.
I mean, it's the best way to dosomething and there's something
powerful about the fact thatanybody that you know I'll use
Snowbird rather than Red Oakchurch I'm the lead pastor at.
Snowbird is one of the titlesthat's associated with my name.
There's not a human being thatcomes to Snowbird that doesn't
(21:21):
have access to me or you oranybody any of our pastors.
At any time during the retreat.
They have total accessibilityand Snowbird will never hear me.
They say never, say never.
Snowbird will never operatedifferent than that.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
We're not going to have celebrity status for
anybody that speaks.
We're not going to use a screenand and that's why it's because
a shepherd has got to smelllike sheep he's got to live
among the people, Right, and I'mvery passionate about that, and
so I appreciate that you sayit's not that it's just only bad
, it's.
(21:57):
It's just it's not the best wayto do something.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
And you know, and I think another you know, for guys
that are committed, you know,using that word expositions the
idea of you know you're gettingin your study, you're getting
the main point of the text thatyou're preaching out of and
making that the main point ofthe sermon, for a simple way to
say it.
But part of that process isyou're taking that biblical,
(22:24):
eternal truth and you'refashioning a sermon, you're
developing a sermon for yourlisteners, and so another thing
that you're missing out on islike, if you don't know your
people, you can still preach agood sermon.
And I think maybe we see this.
You know, like we try to stayin step with what's going on in
(22:45):
culture, what's facing, you know, middle schoolers, high
schoolers, college students,fathers and mothers like we want
to stay tapped into that.
You know, in our church, aspastors of our church it's even
we can be way more intentionalin knowing our people, because
you're not only expositing thetext, you should be expositing
(23:07):
your audience.
And then how does this?
Because when you get to thepoint of application, you can do
just a general application, butif you you know your people,
you can apply it right down towhere they live.
You know, and that that's againit's a whole another level that
you're able to really shepherdeffectively, and again I think
that's that's absent in thatmodel yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Anyway, I appreciate you shedding some more thought
and light on that, but anyway,go ahead, okay.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
So the passage I'm specifically talking about is 1
Timothy 4.13.
So I'll read it, because Ithink this is foundational to
the whole I guess method, wherePaul tells Timothy, the whole I
guess method, where Paul tellsTimothy until I come, devote
yourself to the public readingof scripture, to exhortation, to
(23:59):
teaching.
And he goes on to say practicethese things, immerse yourself
in them, persist in this.
And he puts so much weight onit he says for by doing this
you'll save both yourself andyour hearers.
I think it's the biggerumbrella term of salvation, not
just initial salvation butsanctification all the way up to
the point of glorification.
(24:20):
So he says, essentially, saysyou got three things that you
have to do and I'm telling youto focus your attention on is
read the word give the teaching,or some translations will say
doctrine, which is really whatit means and the exhortation.
And so, essentially, read thepassage, tell them what it says
(24:46):
give the doctrine, tell themwhat it means by what it says.
And then the exhortation, likeokay, how do you obey this, how
do you follow this?
Or we would say more typically,what's the application for me?
And so if that's how a pastoris supposed to handle the word
in the pulpit, it then by whatPaul's teaching in these letters
(25:06):
is how the members themselves,the church, any Christian, is
themselves supposed to handleScripture.
We should have that samepattern of approaching the Word
of God.
I'm going to read it and I'mgoing to study it to know what
God says, not what I think aboutwhat this says, not what I
think it means primarily.
(25:27):
It's primarily what did Godintend for me to get from this
passage?
And then what do I do with that?
How do I obey it, how do Ifollow it, how do I submit to it
?
And so there's just good,helpful perspective on how to
accomplish that.
(25:47):
So, yeah, reading more forcomprehension than just volume,
which again, again, is superbeneficial, and I try to do both
.
You know, sometimes I cheat,and when I'm driving around I'll
listen through Old Testamentbooks.
When, especially when my studythat's more in depth is in the
New Testament, which both it'snot only study the New Testament
(26:08):
, but that's typically where Ifind myself, but that's
typically where I find myself.
So yeah, it's choosing, which Ithink oftentimes, especially if
you go to a church where yourpastor preaches your books of
the Bible, then it's analley-oop of okay, well, I'm
going to study wherever ourchurch is, but it doesn't have
(26:28):
to be that.
I think your interest is notlike you're going to go wrong
With younger Christians,somebody new to studying the
Bible.
We typically say it can behelpful to start with a shorter
book that's more direct, like aPhilippians or James.
But you can't go wrong.
But, yeah, start to justreading it.
(26:50):
And what I advocate for andthis is just a method there's
some things in here that youknow we covered, that I think
are principle, like okay, wellthen, how do you best interpret
scripture?
And we've got 2000 years ofchurch history that you know
really good patterns.
What I advocate for, what helpsme, is when I first start a
(27:10):
study, so you know Philippiansor the book of Hebrews or
wherever, like I really start byjust reading it before I start
diving in, you know, to becomemore and more familiar with that
book of the Bible, not just soI know where things are, but
what the benefit of doing thatversus.
(27:32):
It's not how you would read youknow your favorite fiction book
or a history book or whatever,but you know this is the Word of
God that has transforming powerand doesn't return void.
It's going to have God's effectin your life when you're
submitting to it.
But what starts to happen?
One of the huge benefits is youbegin to see, like, okay, the
(27:55):
books of the Bible aren't justindividual verses strung
together randomly.
The author has an intendedpurpose for what he's saying and
typically, like you know, whenyou're in the Old Testament with
a narrative, the stories puttogether, or the Gospels, you
know, they're put together insuch a way to reveal theological
(28:19):
truth that, out of that fall,you know, is often examples to
follow or things to avoid.
But there's truth being told instory and so, okay, how is he
telling the story to reveal thattruth?
And the more that you read thatstory, you begin to see the
bigger picture and that mainpoint of like, okay, why is he
(28:42):
telling this story, why is hetelling it this way?
That main point of the storystarts to rise to the surface.
Same way with when we get intothe epistles, all the epistles.
There's an argument that flowsthrough that whole epistle.
There's themes that run throughthe epistle and the more that
you read it, those really dorise to the surface.
(29:04):
And that safeguards you whenyou see those things.
It safeguards you from readinginto the text and just reading
it and highlighting one verseand being like, oh, that's going
to be my life verse and take itout of its context.
You know, even for our winterretreats we're doing Philippians
(29:24):
and you know you got a signthat we just called it the Tebow
passage.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Yeah, I can do all things through Christ, who
strengthens me.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yeah, I can run touchdowns.
I can make all things throughChrist, who?
Speaker 1 (29:33):
strengthens me.
I can run touchdowns, I canmake it into law school.
It's not untrue, but it's notthe main point of that verse.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Yeah, and so making sure that you're not reading
into it, taking it out of itscontext.
If you take it out of itscontext, you know one you come
up with weird beliefs.
That's what false teachers haveto do.
A false teacher has to takeScripture.
He's going to use the Bible,but he's going to take it out of
its context, maybe just even alittle bit, but he's going to
(30:02):
pervert it.
He's going to twist it, becausethen your wrong beliefs are
going to have an impact on yourwhole life, how you apply it.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Is this where you used the illustration?
Somebody said could you give anexample and use David and
Goliath?
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Yeah.
I was talking about spirit.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
you know, beware of spiritualizing the text or out
of the horizon that was a littlebit later, I think, and it was
maybe in the Q&A, but this wouldbe a good spot.
I think that's a good examplefor people.
So how somebody might take thestory of David and Goliath out
of context was I was raised tobelieve that that was a story
about overcoming, you know, justgiants in your life or things
(30:43):
that seem to be more than youcan handle.
You can overcome those things.
Or when my oldest was a littlegirl 25, you know, quarter
century ago, the VeggieTaleswere rocking and they did the
David and Goliath story where itwas.
The whole tagline was withGod's help, little people can do
big things.
That's not the point of thestory.
(31:04):
Of course, I think MattChandler is the guy that became
famous for ranting about it.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
You're not David.
You're not David.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
You're not David, but that's a good one, I think.
The Tebow verse, but thenthat's a narrative.
That what's the point of theDavid and Goliath story.
Rob, following this, thatyou're explaining what's the
point of that story.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
The battle belongs to the Lord, to Yahweh.
And you see that in David'sspeech to Saul, right, he, you
know, when Saul's dismissing him, it's not because he, you know,
for whatever, like superficialreasons, he's dismissing David.
David doesn't say hey, you know, with God's help, you know, I
(31:49):
can defeat anything that comesagainst me.
You know, he says no, theLord's going to do it, he's
going to protect his name, he'sgoing to make his glory known,
you know, and he walks throughthat and that's why Saul's like
yeah, go, and he gives examplesof how the Lord had used him.
And I think and then there'sanother principle that you know
(32:10):
we'll come back to, or howeverthis weaves together there's
another principle that we'llcome back to, or however this
weaves together, where it's aprinciple that is biblical.
It's biblical to look for theredemptive focus of the passage,
and we take that from Jesushimself saying that all of
(32:31):
Scripture is about me, even aswe said that there's no verses
that just stand alone.
It's not a bunch of randomverses strung together.
Well, it's also not a bunch ofstories told in isolation and
you know, or doctrines taught inisolation.
Everything is woven together,like the books of the Bible make
(32:53):
up the bigger story ofredemption and that everything
is pointing to Christ, wherebecause you also don't want to
be a danger of just readingDavid Goliath the way that a
good Jew would you know, theJewish people could read the
story of David and Goliath andget similar points on the front
end.
But what a Christian needs toread David and Goliath and get
(33:14):
similar points on the front end?
But a Christian needs to readDavid and Goliath as a Christian
and ask the question where doesthis story stand in
relationship to the ultimateredemption that was displayed in
the life, death andresurrection of Jesus?
And that's where you begin tosee, oh, there is more at play
here.
David's not representing us somuch as he's representing Christ
(33:38):
.
You know, and I think a couplesummers ago, when you preached
through it, you did an awesomejob of laying that out.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yeah, even the point where, when you said the main
point is, the battle belongs tothe Lord, and that's what David.
David convinces King Saul.
This battle belongs to Yahweh.
Um, and, and I think it'simportant for people reading
that story to recognize, in thatmoment Saul is so convinced
that Yahweh is going to deliverthem that he lets this young man
(34:10):
go out and fight against thisseasoned warrior.
So I would not have let davidgo.
No, because if david loses,saul becomes a slave, which
means he's going to have hiseyes gouged out and his you know
potentially terrible thingsdone to his body right, and then
ultimately executed.
And but so he lets this kid go.
(34:30):
It's not like, okay, youconvinced me, you killed some
lines.
Yeah, you're, I think you'rethe man for the job.
It's.
He convinces saul that thebattle belongs to yahweh.
That's good and I think that isthe.
That is the.
That is this monumental momentin the story that later I would
I would even say serves tocondemn saul.
(34:52):
Saul acknowledged who Yahweh isand still rebelled against it.
He rebelled against hisrecognition of Yahweh's
sovereignty.
In that moment, that's good.
I love the way you walk throughthat.
So one other thing you saidthat redemptive focus.
I think that's importantbecause a lot of people, I want
(35:16):
to say, the older I get, theless critical I am of the way
people do their devotions, andso we had a conversation about
this yesterday Some of the youngteaching team it was, I think
it was me, dawson and Zay atlunch yesterday.
It was, I think it was me,dawson and Zay at lunch
yesterday and we're talkingabout how there seems to be a
(35:36):
tendency to be critical.
Oh, alex, your nephew was there, alex Connors, so it was Alex,
zay, dawson and me and we'resitting there and we're talking
about how my devotions in themorning probably look more
simple.
They probably look more likethey looked when I was a
(35:56):
one-year-old Christian now RightThan when I was 15 years into
my faith journey and waslearning how to preach and
prepare sermons, because I'vekind of walked it back to and
you talk about this in themorning.
(36:17):
I get up.
The first thing I do is Ihydrate my brain.
It's proven that cold waterrehydrates not just your body
but your soul and your brain.
Your brain is dehydrated, sodrink in that water, get myself
and I get in front of the uh, Itake a cold shower and I turn
all the lights on in thebathroom and I kind of get woke
up, good, and then I go and 20minutes after I'm out of bed
(36:37):
I've got that cup of coffee andI sit down and I listen to the
scripture.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
The last three mornings I have listened to the
book of Philippians and I'velistened to Romans, chapter
eight.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Romans eight is what we're preaching next summer.
Philippians is what we're doingfor winter, and I listen to
them and then I'll go backthrough and make notes or write
my own devotion and and I wantpeople to feel free to, to not
have to follow someone else'sschedule, right, as long as
these principles are in placeand the conversation yesterday
(37:10):
turned to the our daily breaddevotional, because I use that
with my kids and so there'snothing I want to say.
I use our daily breaddevotional.
There's nothing wrong withdoing those things.
However, you got to work at it alittle bit and engage your
brain, your mind, yourimagination to say what is the
(37:32):
main point of this passage?
What's this teaching me aboutJesus?
What's it teaching me about sinand redemption, rather than, is
this giving me an anecdotallife lesson for today?
Right, so there's a fine line.
There's a tension that we needto walk, walk around with.
Where it's like I can, I candrink in a devotional thought
and it can sort of nourish andhydrate my early morning soul,
(37:56):
but I also need to press into,okay, what's this mean for me?
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Yeah, and yeah, I do the same thing.
I said it in the breakout themornings I really listen to
somebody else read and I readalong.
It keeps me more engaged atthat hour while I'm sipping
coffee, um, and then really Ilisten and I and I pray, and
that, uh, I journal my prayers,um, which is a huge part of
(38:23):
approaching scripture.
Um, I just journal my prayersout, I type them because it
helps, again, it helps keep mybrain engaged and it really is
that simple.
And then for me, I love my jobhere because it affords me time
to study whatever is coming upnext, or going over a sermon
(38:45):
prep.
But yeah, they're tools andthey're just ways.
The ultimate goal of studyingthe Bible ultimate, there's more
, but ultimate is you arespending time with Jesus.
You know it's his word, hisspirit lives in you and you're
spending time with him.
When you're just listening,large volume, if you're diving
(39:08):
deep, you're spending time withChrist and we're trusting that
his word is true and it renewsour mind.
We submit to having a mind ofChrist, that we begin to see the
world the way he sees it.
We begin to see God the way hereally is, ourselves, the world
around us.
Why we're here?
It's a guard against idolatry.
(39:32):
We're doing what Colossians 3says, which is to set our mind
on the things above, whereChrist is.
That's the goal is becoming morelike Christ by spending time
with him, and so, yeah, at theend of the day, what works for
you is awesome, you know.
I think this deeper dive is,you know, I think it is
(39:56):
important in where you know.
The Bible says you know to testthings and to not get swept.
James says you know, notgetting sucked into different
winds of doctrine.
You know the way you protectyourself against that is, you're
not being at the mercy ofsomebody else just telling you
what it means, and that's bylearning how to discern
(40:20):
Scripture and have Scripture inyour mind as a filter that
everything else has to passthrough, Whether it's awesome
resources like Our Daily Breador Morning and Evening with
Spurgeon, or listening to apodcast or a sermon series by
somebody you don't even know,just online, the more that
scripture is in your mind.
(40:41):
You can listen without beinglike a critical punk.
But you'll catch things thatare like, oh, what did he mean
by that?
Or oh man, that really doesn'tseem to be what that passage is
saying.
It doesn't mean you disregardeverything going on, but you're
just not going to get sucked into something.
That's maybe a badunderstanding of scripture.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Um, and so that's where this is, I think, very
valuable we'll also include uhjb, let's make sure we've got
Rob's outlines and notes linkedup so if you're watching this
especially, you can just pullthose notes up and as Rob's
walking through this, you can befollowing that and then also we
(41:28):
can.
We always want, we welcomequestions you're hearing.
You need clarifying thought orquestion, then please ask us
those because we can addressthem.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
No, I think somewhere in here I had analogy.
I don't know if it's a good one, but it worked for me.
You know, to that point of like, you know, it's a process and
something to grow in, where,like, yeah, you know, I would
never want somebody to feeldiscouraged of, like, oh, that's
overwhelming, or man, I reallydon't know how to actually do
(42:04):
that myself where it's like totake time to grow in it.
And you know, I I just lovefootball and it's, you know, a
lot of times I have to deletethose.
I always want to use thoseillustrations because it's the
first one that pops in my headand I'm like, okay, I don't want
to be just a football guy,especially since I, you know,
never played.
But you know, I was thinking youcan enjoy a football game
(42:28):
without knowing any of the rules, you know without knowing any
of the rules.
Or you can enjoy a footballgame knowing schemes and being
able to.
Most people know myfather-in-law.
His whole career has beencoaching at the collegiate level
and the NFL level and, honestly, there's times where if he's
(42:50):
over and there's a game on orwe're at third place, the normal
comments I would make.
I'm like, you know, but I'mtrying to ask questions of like
what is he seeing you?
know, like because he's seeingthings that I'm not seeing and
so he's taking in that game onanother level, I think.
(43:14):
But there's also, you know, oneof my daughters watching and
they, they, they'll be in andout and they enjoy a good play,
you know, like a long bomb or agood hit or a sack or whatever.
Like they can enjoy the gamewithout knowing all the all that
stuff going on.
But the, you know, but itdoesn't.
But, yeah, but you can grow themore you watch it, right, like
you're going to pick up rulesand like you know, sarah, she'll
always be like, oh, how did youknow?
That was what the penalty was.
(43:35):
And it's not necessarily I sawit because of the way that the
cameras are.
It's more of just how everyonereacted after the play and I'm
like, oh, that was holding.
She's like, oh, who was?
Speaker 1 (43:45):
I don't know, I didn't see it, I just I know
it's holding yeah, and so Ithink the flag was thrown where.
What the timing in the play?
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (43:53):
um.
And so I think, then, to enjoywhere you're at and not to feel
like, oh, I'm behind, or like apressure, like don't put a
pressure on yourself whereyou're, like I'm not doing this
well enough, like spend timewith Jesus.
You know, being in the word isits own reward, you know, while
like, yeah, I want to grow inthis, and the more time that I
(44:14):
do this and the more I practiceit, I'll be better at
interpreting the Bible and I'llbe better at applying the Bible
and submitting to it.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, that's good.
I appreciate that a lot I thinkabout.
So Josh Dunn, who a lot of ourlisteners will know Josh, many
probably will not, but a lotwill.
Josh runs the registrationdepartment at SWO.
He runs the front office andhe's a really good outdoorsman.
Josh is a phenomenaloutdoorsman.
(44:45):
He fly fishes, he bait, castfishes, he has bird dogs, he
upland bird hunts.
He'll go to Nebraska kansas andgo out there pheasant hunt.
He's, you know, he's been outwest and killed elk.
He's uh, he's an accomplishedhunter locally.
Well, he's a good hunter buthe's not a ballistics guy and I,
(45:10):
I, I kind of geek out over thatstuff.
And so I had developed a handload.
I've talked about this on anepisode one time.
Basically, you develop.
Oh, when John Rouleauinterviewed me he asked me what
does that mean?
Basically you build your ownhunting ammunition.
But I developed a load where,when I would shoot that in my
(45:34):
rifle at 200 yards, you couldcover five shots with a quarter.
So if people don't have aconcept, just that's very
accurate very good, yeah, it'svery accurate to do that.
You're measuring to the, to thetenth of a grain, the amount of
powder that's going into a shell.
You're you're making your.
I'm weight checking everyprojectile to make sure they all
(45:57):
came from the same factorybatch of bullets.
Do they all weigh exactly inthat load 160 grains, not 160.1,
whatever?
By the time I put thatammunition together and go shoot
, I have a high expectation.
Well, josh was ready to throwhis rifle away because he was
shooting at 100 yards.
His groups were an inch and ahalf around.
(46:18):
Well, that's perfect.
You can hunt all over NorthAmerica with a gun that shoots
that accurate.
He's buying his ammunition fromthe store so it's not going to
be as precise.
And then he's going out andhe's shooting.
You can hit an animal out to400's shooting.
You can hit an animal out to400 yards if you know how to
shoot with ammunition like that.
And so I remember he had, hehad, he was burning through
(46:40):
money buying different ammo.
I gotta get it to shoot.
And finally I remember justsaying oh, you know what, I
don't think you're gonna get itto shoot the same way that hand
load shoots.
Just enjoy this man.
Just enjoy hunting and shooting, and you're a really good
hunter.
You're not a ballistics guy,but you're a really good hunter.
You're not a ballistics guy,but you're a really good hunter.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Just keep killing stuff and feeding your family
and having fun.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
You know, like if you have the spirit of Jesus in you
, you're a really good Christian, right, because Jesus is the
one that's in you that bringsthe goodness.
You're not good because you'remoral.
You're not good because yourquiet time is two hours long and
you parse Greek verbs and youbreak down sentences in the
original grammar, and you're agood Christian because of Christ
(47:21):
in you.
What scripture enables me to dois be in tune with Christ in me
and to submit to Christ in me.
It helps me to understand howto engage my mind.
Don't overthink it, don'toverdo it.
Just love the Lord with allyour heart, soul, mind and
strength, and know that somepeople like a Rob Conte Rob
teaches a biblical expositionclass.
(47:42):
We learn from people like this,but enjoy it for what it is and
just be faithful to thescripture.
I think that's what I'm hearingyou say and describe, and I also
love CS Lewis's illustration ofthe scripture.
I think that's what I'm hearingyou say and describe, and and I
also love CS Lewis'sillustration of the ocean.
A child can enjoy that.
I use this all the time withstudents.
A child can play in the oceanand this much water and love it.
And the greatest explorers ofour day have gone to the depths
(48:06):
of the ocean and there's stillmystery.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
Yeah.
The word of God is like thatthat's good, yeah, the word of
God is like that.
That's good, yeah, you know.
And Peter says you know, desire, like a baby desires milk,
right, desire, the pure word ofGod.
And what he's focusing on isthe desire.
You know, he's not saying justdrink milk, or when you're a new
(48:31):
Christian, just you know.
Keep it simple.
But the point is like is todesire it?
Like that, with Scripture itworks.
Like the more that we are in itand spending time in our new
environment, that's what buildsthe desire.
Our stomachs desire food.
They desire food when they'rehungry, and the more hungry you
(48:53):
get, you know, the more you wantthe food.
Well, what scripture almostworks the opposite way.
Like, the more that you have it, the the greater your hunger is
for it.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
and so it's like metabolism, where the harder
you're training and working, themore food you want right and it
seems.
Seems counterproductive.
Because a marathon runner youthink that guy, I going to start
running and I need to lose someweight.
So I'm going to diet andexercise.
But the exercise makes you wantto eat more Right, but the
exercise also makes you burn thefood up faster, so you need
(49:23):
more food to be able to exercise.
But it's not counterproductiveif you're eating the right thing
, that's good.
It generates greater appetite,but then the food you take in
goes to work.
Speaker 3 (49:33):
That's good um oh, one story.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Yeah, we're dowd.
Go, one of our one of our guyson the team that's behind the
camera when this before he wasborn, probably he might have
been an infant little baby.
I was little and I went to hischurch do a d now no, he wasn't
born yet.
I know he wasn't and, uh, hispastor.
He grew up with a really goodfriend of mine, john G Tate, and
(49:57):
I've talked about John Johnhere before, but he was doing a
D now, which is, if you don'twant to D now as a discipleship
weekend for students and you.
It's a small group structure andI was leading the high school
junior and senior boys.
I was leading the high schooljunior and senior boys and for
Saturday night of the day now,everybody had to do a skit, and
(50:27):
so what I did for our skit is wewent in the backyard of the
people that hosted whose home westayed in.
So I had 12 high school seniorboys and we did the gallon
challenge in their backyard,which is where you try to the
original gallon challenge.
You try to chug a gallon ofwhole milk in an hour and not
vomit.
But we changed the rules.
So this is when the ruleschanged.
Was at this D now I said, guys,I don't have an hour to watch
(50:47):
you drink milk and be sick.
Let's see how fast you candrink a gallon of milk and how
far you can projectile vomit,and we'll video you doing this.
So we did it, we videoed thewhole thing and then we
time-lapsed it.
I think all 12 guys had drunktheir milk within 15 minutes and
there was so much vomit in thatbackyard and we videoed the
(51:11):
whole thing and showed it inchurch.
They're going to do the skits.
So the different people comingup and doing their skits.
I'm yeah, this is the latenineties, I'm pretty new in
student ministry and I rememberI had one of the this one guy
they called him a pork chop thisone kid that just ate all the
time and he comes out and hisjob was to read that verse you
should crave the meat of theword, not pure spiritual milk.
And then boom, hit, play, andit's guys drinking milk and
(51:34):
puking in a time lapse, twominute video.
And when it got, when we gotdone, there were there were a
few people in the church thathad a sense of humor right and
they were.
They were quietly enjoyingthemselves yes, but they weren't
going to get your back thoughno, they were not gonna get my
back, and john g was a youthpastor at that time and he was
forbid from asking me to comeback and help out.
(51:55):
So anyway to say that's notwhat it means.
When Peter's saying crave themilk, he's not saying get off
the milk and get to the meat.
And if you're drinking the milkand you're being, I still love
the simple things of Scriptureyou don't quit loving that.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Yeah, you don't quit loving that.
Yeah, and the, the in Hebrewsat the end of chapter five,
beginning of chapter six, whenhe says, uh, he's rebuking them.
And he says you know you becomedull hearing.
You need me to go over thebasic stuff again.
He says you need milk, notsolid food.
For everyone who lives on, milkis unskilled in the word of
righteousness, since he is achild, but solid food is for the
(52:32):
mature, for those who havetheir powers of discernment,
trained by constant practice,distinguish good from evil.
What's interesting there ishe's saying he's not disparaging
the basic truth of the gospel.
What he's calling them out onis you're not applying it.
And he's like him out on isyou're not applying it and he's
(52:57):
like it's not that if I go on todeeper truths about jesus being
, you know, like melchizedek,that oh, you just won't
understand it because you'rechildlike.
He's calling my eyes like Iwant to go on to deeper things,
but you're not obeying thesimple truth.
And so it's interesting, evenin that passage he's saying yeah
, like it's not that there'sthings that we just leave behind
(53:18):
, like we don't need themanymore like we still all need,
yeah, the abcs of the gospel.
You know like we don't move onfrom it, just like you don't
move on from the abcs.
As a adult, you don't recitethe abcs all the time, but you
use them in every word andsentence and paragraph and you
speak and understand.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
That's good, all right.
Well, let's stop there.
We're going to have a followupepisode.
We're not done, we're justgetting going.
Speaker 3 (53:44):
We didn't even get as far as I got in the breakout.
It was awesome.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
Well, that's the beauty of this is we're doing as
many episodes as we want to do,so we'll try to keep these
under an hour so folks canlisten, think about it, take
some notes, go back, re, re,listen.
So we'll stop there and we'vegot a lot of cool content coming
through NSR over the next fewweeks.
I've got a lot of cool stuffoutlined, but we're also going
(54:07):
to just bring you more of this.
We'll stop here and come backwith the next episode.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
Thanks for listening to.
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Please take a moment tosubscribe and leave a rating.
It really helps.
Visit us at sw outfitters dotcom to see all of our
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