January 30, 2025 • 41 mins
Brody and Rob Conti continue their conversation about what it really means to abide in God’s Word. Rob shares why it's important to understand the full context of Scripture before diving into individual verses, and why we shouldn’t rush to commentaries. The goal isn’t just to get answers but to spend time with God and let His Word change us.
Rob also talks about practical tools for studying the Bible and encourages us to be mindful of our biases when reading. Ultimately, Scripture is meant to shape us, not the other way around.
Bullet Points from Rob's notes:
- Pray for Understanding: Ask God for wisdom and obedience.
- Read and Reread: Understand what the Bible says, means, and how it applies.
- Know the Context: Consider the background and literary style of the passage.
- Ask Questions: Who, what, where, why, when? Dig deeper.
- Use Tools: Check study Bibles, commentaries, and different translations.
- Avoid Bias: Don’t let personal views twist the meaning.
- Understand the Genre: Know if it’s a story or teaching.
- Look for Themes: Focus on key ideas like faith, redemption, or God’s character.
- Apply It: See how it speaks to your life—commands, promises, or warnings.
- Focus on Jesus: Every passage points to His redemptive work.
- Seek Help: Ask pastors or trusted believers for clarity.
- Reflect and Apply: Meditate on what you’ve learned and share it.
Unpacking What it Looks Like to Abide in God's Word
College Retreat Sessions
Teaching Slides Link
Breakout Notes Link
Christ-Centered Exposition Books
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, we're going to roll right into part two.
If you sat through the lastepisode, then we're going to
pick up right where we left off.
Literally, we're doing all ofthis recording in the same day,
so that way there's cohesivethought.
But if you're listening to thisand you didn't hear the
previous episode, you don't haveto go back and listen to that
(00:21):
now.
But I think you'd want to atsome point.
But we'll just pick right up.
We're talking about theeffectiveness of studying the
scripture, different ideas andapproaches to how you might do
that, how critical it is.
Not just effective, but it'scritical for life and godliness
and, I think, for spiritualhealth, but also for mental and
(00:42):
emotional health for a believer.
And so we're with Rob.
We've got Rob here walking usthrough the main points and
ideas from the breakout sessionthat he taught at a recent
college event at SWO.
We had hundreds of collegestudents here, I think with our
people all total, we werepushing 600, and then the
weather messed us up and I thinkwe ended up in the low fours
(01:05):
in-house.
So there's a lot of collegefolks with a lot of potential
impact on the world 500eyewitnesses to Jesus.
1 Corinthians 15 tells us we hadthat many people under roof
hearing about the effectivenessand the critical nature for the
believer of studying thescripture, and so, um, yeah, so
(01:27):
we'll pick up where we left off.
We do have, um, rob's outlinesand notes are available to you
in the show notes.
So I would even say followalong, because this is laid out,
um, where it's real easy tofollow what we're talking about,
and take your own notes.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So let's just pick up where we left off yeah, yeah,
under, just when you're at thestage just reading the scripture
and reading it like over andover.
So you know, with a like a booklike philippians or new
testament book, it's just easyto read in one sitting and
that's.
I'll do that.
You know, maybe when I'mapproaching a deeper study of
(02:05):
that book, you know, maybe thefirst week or two I really just
listen and I'm allowing, youknow, seeing those main themes
of that book to kind of rise tothe surface.
Really helpful for seeing again, especially in epistles.
But with the gospels and withnarrative, like cause, there's
things that get revealed at theend, whether a statement being
(02:29):
made, like in John's gospel,that you know these things are
written so that you may believethat Jesus is the son of God.
Well, that helps you understand, like why he told certain
stories and didn't tell others,or why he told stories in a
certain way, not that he'schanging what happened, but he's
emphasizing aspects of thestories, or the, the, what Jesus
(02:52):
said to that end.
That's his purpose for writinghis gospel and and so it's, you
know, helpful to get the wholepicture before you try to do any
kind of deep dive, cause youknow you can.
What's the saying Like, missthe forest for the tree.
You know it's kind of theopposite, um, but so it's just
(03:12):
helpful.
And what I found personally indoing that is, uh, just kind of
a almost on accident I'llmemorize scripture.
Because, uh, and I don't know,people are wired differently.
I still fight to like memorizescripture just like I'm going to
take this verse and go over ita bunch.
I typically struggle with thatmore than when I understand the
(03:37):
context around a verse.
It sticks in my brain better.
So when I'm just reading I endup realizing that I'm memorizing
it Like I can, you know, sharewith somebody what I'm learning
and that verse will come outbecause I just know the flow of
the passage.
So other people talk about that.
(03:58):
It's not unique to me.
I think it's just a really goodway to memorize scripture.
But yeah, so you start to seethose themes, and I think about
Romans is a good example.
Just, you realize like, okay,paul lays out like his thesis in
chapter one when he says forI'm not ashamed of the gospel,
for it's the power of God untosalvation for everyone who
(04:20):
believes, for the Jew first, butalso for the Greek, for in it
it the righteousness of God isrevealed from faith for faith.
Then he says for the wrath ofGod is revealed from heaven
against all ungodliness andunrighteousness of men, you know
.
And so it becomes like what hejust said.
What you realize is, you knowthat 16 through 18, the next six
(04:44):
chapters, is really unpackingthe doctrine of that statement.
Well, that's really helpful.
But he kind of does it inreverse order.
He shows the wrath and thejudgment coming down and the
reason why, and then he worksinto how we're justified by
faith and gives examples.
And then the next half of theletter is like okay, here's what
(05:05):
you do with it, the exhortationpart.
So it's just helpful to seethat because again, it helps you
from taking a passage out ofcontext.
You just start to see the wholepicture, do you find?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
that as a Bible teacher because you're not just
a preacher and you also teachBible as part of your job at the
college level, and so you'vegot a different handle on the
scripture than most people haveyou could say you're a
professional.
So that's why I think itmatters for people to listen to
(05:43):
someone like you, because thisis not just a calling that God's
given you, but it's somethinghe's gifted you to be able to
communicate.
And would you say that when,especially with those letters,
you're talking about Paul'sletters, peter's letters, you
know the universal churchletters like Peter and James or
(06:03):
Peter and Jude, I guess?
James was written to the Jewsthat were scattered throughout
the Roman Empire, so there was atarget audience there.
Maybe there's more specific.
I've always heard, and I thinkI've even said most books are
what you just described,described the, the doctrine, and
(06:33):
the, the doctrine and maybe theuh indicatives, which are the
statements of fact.
The things that are that we'retold are true, typically lead
off and then are followed by theapplication, the exhort or the
imperatives or commands.
Is that pretty normal?
I mean, is that the way most ofthose New Testament books flow?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, I believe so.
It seems like that's howthey're designed, and I wonder,
too, how much people make anargument for Romans being
written as a sermon, anhour-long sermon.
Um, so there's a separateconversation but uh uh, and, and
(07:11):
the, the writer of Hebrews,specifically calls his letter a
word of exhortation.
Um, and so, yeah, I believeit's designed to be read aloud
in the church during the sermontime and then from there, you
know, it seems so, it seems tofollow that same pattern of read
.
It give the meaning and thenthe application is like they're
(07:35):
following that pattern.
But yeah, it seems to me thatthat's how the epistles are
designed for the most part, andwith that, when you so, when
you're preaching, you might bepreaching.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Let's say, let's go back to we're in the middle of
winter, swole, and right nowwe're we're preaching
Philippians, um, your, your textfor that is a Philippians four,
four through eight.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Is that what you're preaching?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, rejoice.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
About rejoicing.
But you can also probably takethat and apply it to.
If you're like on the firstnight of winter, swole that
first night I preach a lot ofchapter one.
I can take that message andprobably I could probably stay
(08:23):
just in the book of Philippianswith all my supporting
application from chapters two,three and four.
You can that each one of thosevolumes.
If you approach to read andstudy of a new testament letter,
just know you're.
You're possessing in your handan entire work of doctrine and
theology and application, justwith jude right, which is one
page philippians, which is fourchapters um, and that's why you
can devote so much time tomeditate and study in one
(08:47):
passage yeah, which you know.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
It's one of the things that in my outline, where
you know you're seeing wheresomething stands in relationship
to the immediate context, youknow and you could just, you
know the, the paragraph before,the paragraph after, after, but
then in the book of the Bible,like that it's in, you're seeing
where it stands in relationshipto it, but then you're looking
(09:12):
at, okay, like the entire Bible,the entire story of redemption,
and so it's.
You know, in a sense, like anypassage could lead you to any
other point in the Bible.
You know which folks have gonethrough and done the hard work
of the cross references andthat's one way you end up
bouncing around and it helps.
You know, like, uh, fill outyour theology when you do that
(09:39):
and you see how things tietogether and you know just
becomes more robust.
But but yeah, like, yeah, youcan spend so much time and and I
think man has so much freedomto do that at your own pace and
and not feel like you get boggeddown.
But you know, not beat yourselfup, because all all I got out
(09:59):
of that was, you know, a simpleapplication, like, okay, great,
okay, great, keep at it yeahthat's good.
Yeah, one thing I like to dothere at this point and I say
this and when I sit down tostudy, it's not always all these
(10:20):
things and it's not always inthese orders, but it's just a
general practice.
But I love to read.
I'm not a Greek student.
I can't read.
If you gave me a Greek NewTestament, like I'm done, I read
in English.
I started taking Greek incollege and I switched it.
(10:42):
I dropped out of it college andand I, I switched it.
Uh, I dropped out of it.
Um, you know, not proud of thatit was.
You know, sometimes I'vequestioned, you know man, you
know I was overwhelmed thatsemester and I was like, ah, I'm
going to revisit Greek and Ijust never did Um, and so in
some ways I'm handicapped therecompared to other guys.
But uh, the good news is welive in a time when we have so
(11:04):
many tools and we have reallygood English translations.
They're good, we've got a bunchof really good ones to choose
from.
And so one of the ways that Iguess I would say I make up for
not knowing the originallanguages is I will just read
multiple translations, becausethe reason why there's
(11:26):
difference and there's, you know, nuance to how the translators
or the yeah, the translatorscame up with those versions is
because there's a range ofmeaning for those words, and so
if I read, you know three orfour different translations,
usually I see where I need togive more attention.
(11:47):
Like, okay, they use this wordhere and they use they
translated it this way here.
For me that's just like anindicator of revisit this If I
want to dive deeper.
Like, okay, why?
Like is this word you couldtake it to mean this way and
this word you could take to meanthis way.
And here's where maybe theyintersect.
So I just love reading thedifferent translations because
(12:08):
it shows me those markers of hey, come back to this, make a note
of this, come back, check itout.
Or, you know, maybe I'll go toa Greek tool like Blue Letter
Bible, click on the Strongs andlook at what the Greek
definition is and I try to becareful there because with my
(12:31):
zero knowledge of Greek, I dobetter if I look at okay, what's
just the definition for thisword in Greek?
What's the definition for thisword in English?
But then allow the context ofthe passage to really determine
for me what's the besttranslation of this.
Why did the ESV say this whenthe NLT said this, and they have
different goals, specificallythose two, but maybe more the
(12:53):
ESV and the New AmericanStandard or the CSB, and that
just helps me in my study.
And again, it's a process ofpraying and asking the Lord to
teach me and spending time withthe Lord and it's just fun.
I love the Amplified version.
If you've never checked thatout, I encourage you to.
It's not a paraphrase.
(13:14):
What Amplified does is when itcomes up to certain Greek words
that are important forunderstanding that passage,
it'll put it in parentheses andgive you like the range of that
word, or it'll like, where oneword doesn't suffice, it'll give
you like a phrase to understandwhat in English came out as
just like propitiation and it'llgive you like a fuller meaning.
(13:37):
So it's a.
It's like you're doing all thatall at once with the Amplified.
So I don't teach from it.
It's not my primary version.
I go.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Hearing you explain that and then talking about like
in the Amplified, usingpropitiation, the word that I
always that, differenttranslations of doing what
you're saying, using differenttranslations.
The word that I've been helpedwith, that is the word it would
be pronounced, I believe, teleos, and it's the root word of the
(14:15):
reason I learned that is becausewhen Jesus says tetelestai,
it's the root word of telestai,it means it is finished, and you
see that word show up and betranslated differently in
different passages and indifferent translations.
For instance, in Romans 10.4,it says Christ is the end of the
(14:37):
law.
To everyone who believes End,it is finished.
So if you take that same wordin Romans 10.4, it's like Christ
is the finished, completed, endof the law.
He's brought it to a completion, he's finished it.
Gal.
Galatians, chapter 5, 16 saysso.
(14:58):
I say um walk by the spirit orlive by the spirit, and you will
not carry out the desires ofthe flesh.
Carry out is the same word,right.
It means end or fulfilled orcompleted.
So you can take a word and seedifferent, a different way that
that might be framed in theEnglish language, but it it
(15:20):
enriches the meaning, justwithout leaving the English
Right.
So if I go, galatians five, 16,.
If I go, walk by the spirit andyou will not carry out the
desires of the flesh and I applythat to, and I use the other
translations of that word walkby the spirit and you will not
complete and bring tofulfillment and bring to its
(15:42):
finished work the desires of theflesh, um, if you're walking by
the spirit and it just bringsus alive that's a word that I, I
think one I wrote down.
There's five different wordsused for that Gratify, carry out
, fulfill, perfect, complete,end.
(16:02):
Six words.
Yeah, that all in the Englishwould have a little bit of a
different meaning, right, butthat, come a man, it just brings
it alive.
That's without touching theGreek, right?
I was looking at five differenttranslations, six different
translations.
So, yeah, I like that.
I appreciate that.
You shared that with me yearsago and it's been very helpful
for me.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, and you know, then at other times you go I
remember I can't remember whatthe word was, and I think I was,
you know it's when I firstmoved to Andrews, and so you
know, I'd finished my undergrad,I was halfway through seminary,
you know, which was awesome, sothankful for.
(16:42):
But a lot of things that I feltlike still were like didn't
necessarily prepare me for maybeif I had kept in Greek.
But I remember coming to youand I was like just really
wanting to like I think I was, Iwas feeling what.
I was, encouraging people notto feel like, like to take it as
deep as possible every morning.
(17:03):
And I came to you on on a wordI think it was maybe abide, you
know, or it was something.
So, where I was like I'm just,you know, I'm stuck right here
and I just why how's he using ithere this way?
And you're like it just meansto like live, like you know, it
was so simple.
And you're like what do youmean?
You hung up on it and it was sogood for me because I was like
(17:26):
yeah, I'm, you know, I'm zoomingin, so close I'm, you know, the
picture's now blurry.
So it's this balance and a flowthat you get into in the text
and you're absolutely going tomiss things.
You just are, and that's a goodthing, because if you live long
(17:46):
enough, you'll come back tothis book and read it again.
And that's where people say theLord's always given me
something new, and it's notbecause it's like a spell book.
That's where people say, man,the Lord's always giving me
something new, and it's notbecause it's like a spell book
that's changing.
Sorry, we watched Harry Potterrecently.
But it's because, like thedepth of it, it's the, you know,
the word of God, it's the mindof God, it's the person of
(18:07):
Christ and on paper, withletters, like, you're not going
to plumb the depth of it.
You know, no matter how deepyou try to go.
So you're always going to getmore when you come back.
So, yeah, just being beingflexible and asking the Lord to
teach you what he wants you toget, yeah, so typically at this
(18:29):
point, like I, I try to bebalanced with it, but I really
we've got so many good tools andwe kind of talked about this a
little bit, with even thedevotional aspect, but we've got
the ESV.
Study Bible is an incredibletool that you can put in your
kid's hands.
The NIV has a good study Bible.
(18:51):
There's a lot of good ones.
Those are the ones I'm morefamiliar with.
The Nelson study Bible I hadfor a while was great.
And then there's commentaries,and there's different levels of
commentaries.
There's ones that are, you know, designed more for like a small
group study, and then differentlevels all the way up to.
They're basically written inGreek and Hebrew and Latin and
(19:16):
you know like you need to be ascholar to use them.
There's everything in betweenand those are good and we should
use them, and I'll come back towhy.
But I personally I really tryto fight against going to those
early in my study.
I really try to put that off aslong as I can because, again,
(19:38):
the goal is not to just have ananswer, it's not just to have
just an understanding.
The goal is to spend time withChrist and to be sanctified by
it, by the Word, and so if I'mconstantly depending on somebody
else to just tell me what itmeans, I'm robbing myself of
(19:58):
that time spent with the Lordand time spent learning to hear
from the Holy Spirit, who is theauthor of scripture, who lives
in us.
I don't want to jump over thatI don't want to ignore it,
because here's where I think youknow we should use those tools
and not necessarily all of them.
But you know, in Ephesians we'retold that man God gave the
(20:23):
church, you know, apostles andpastors and preachers and
teachers for the building up andthe edifying of the church, so
that we're not tossed around byevery wind of doctrine building
up in the edifying of the church, so that we're not tossed
around by every wind of doctrine.
And it's like okay, like that'shuge, because in the history of
the church people have like gotit wrong, like people have
(20:50):
fallen into heresy and had wrongbeliefs and that's led to all
kinds of issues.
And it's like, okay, well, wedon't have to keep stepping in
that same pothole because thechurch has already addressed it
and so we can lean on 2,000years of church history, of God
giving us godly people who havestudied the scripture in depth
already corrected errors andsaid, no, that's not orthodox,
that's not like historicChristianity given to us by the
(21:15):
Lord and by his apostles, so Idon't have to step in that same
thing.
So what I like to do is studyit, read it, ask questions of
the text.
You know, just be curious.
I think it's just helpful.
Like you know, I think in thebreakout I said look at it like
you're an investigator, but justbeing curious, just like
wanting to know what's beingsaid, and then do your best to
(21:38):
come up with answers to your ownquestions about what's the main
point of this passage, what isit, what's he really talking
about, what's this building upto?
And you might write stuff thatlater on you go oh, I was way
off and it's because I didn'tknow that that was a, I didn't
know the custom of what wasgoing on in that story.
You know, I didn't know thatwas in, you know, 5,000 years
(22:03):
ago.
That was what Kinsman Redeemermeant.
You know the Ruth and Boazstory, and so I got it wrong.
But what you do is then you goto whether it's you know
somebody that you can just gotalk to that is a, you know,
faithful pastor, bible teacher,or you look at the notes in the
study Bible, or if you get alittle commentary to go along
with it, and then it tells youthat and that reshapes.
(22:25):
Oh, okay, now I see it in thislight and that's super helpful
and it keeps you from, you know,just getting it wrong, and so I
love that and I think we shoulduse it, because the Lord's
given us these people for 2,000years to do that work, so that
we can benefit from it.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Do you have a favorite commentary?
You mentioned several in yourbreakout.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, I have some favorite commentators like FF
Bruce.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I just love him.
His Hebrew is probably yourgo-to it's my favorite hebrews
commentary and so I'll, whateverbook we go to, I'll see if he
has one on it, um, but yeah,then I love uh that.
The one that I recommend themost is the niv application
commentary series.
It's, it's uh, you know, Iguess accessible is the right
(23:17):
word, or it's not overlysimplified.
I don't like uh, I don't likeones that just are like I would
use the word mushy, just youknow, like, just jump to
application and it does, and itgives you the historical context
and then it bridges some of thegrammatical, cultural,
(23:39):
linguistic gaps that are goingto be there.
That, you know, just a normalperson who loves to study the
Bible is not going toautomatically know they cover
those.
And then it goes intocontemporary context.
It's a really helpfulapplication, um, but it's
written solid, but for somebodywho, you know, has to go work 40
(24:03):
, 50 hours a week and raise afamily Like it's, it's, it's
great.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
The.
Uh, if you're, if you'relistening to this and you don't
know exactly what a commentaryis, imagine you've got your
Bible and then you've got, let'ssay, you're going to read we've
been talking about Philippians,so let's say, you're going to
read Philippians.
(24:28):
A commentary on Philippianswould be a book that goes each
verse it's going to kind ofexplain what it means and it's
going to do all these thingsRob's been talking about.
It's going to give you somebackground to it, what was going
on at that time and that place.
And then some practicalapplication for your life and
(24:48):
preachers.
As preachers, we usecommentaries oftentimes to help
us create a flow to a sermon orto fact check things that we've
written, maybe in our ownresearch.
It's just a helpful tool.
But some commentaries can bevery academic and intellectual
and scholarly and hard to really.
(25:10):
You know, you've got to have alot Like the word biblical
commentary series.
You need to have some sort ofGreek background, Um, but then
some can be super shallow whereit's like man.
I think I would be better offjust reading this myself and
writing my own notes andthoughts and so just finding a
good practical commentary thatgives you some good application.
(25:31):
And um, yeah, there's anotherone that I recommend to people a
lot of times.
I don't personally use it a lotand I don't know why I don't
use it a lot, but I used it inthe Daniel study when we
preached through Daniel.
But it's the.
Is it called life applicationor the application?
The NIV application?
(25:52):
There's the NIV commentary onthe new testament, the one I
think you're mentioning.
Then there's another one.
We'll link it, we'll get theseand link it where it gives you
commentary on the passage.
Historical context, modernapplication.
I mean it's three sections toeach passage.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
That's the one I'm.
Is that the one you're talkingabout?
That's the niv applicationcommentary.
Okay, and then there's the oneI'm.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Is that the one you're talking about?
That's the NIV applicationcommentary.
Yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
And then there's the other one.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Which is more wordy.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
A little bit more scholarly.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yes, okay, so that one's called the NIV application
commentary.
Yeah, that's the one Irecommend for people too.
Yeah, because it really does agood job of it'll bring it into
a modern context.
That's good.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
The Exalting Jesus in whatever book of the Bible that
the commentary is on.
It's a Christ-centeredexposition commentary.
It's also a good one, and Iwould say it's even simpler than
that, and so if you're maybe alittle bit intimidated by that
idea, that would be a good one.
Again, we'll link it, butthey're a lot smaller too.
So if you're like I don't wantto dedicate six months to this
(26:56):
book I don't know if I'm readyfor that and you're like, but if
you know, like, hey, inFebruary I'm going to go through
John, that would be a great.
I'd recommend that one a lot.
Yeah, that's the one we a lot oftimes our folks at church are
using to follow along.
Yeah, so yeah, but I broughtthat up at this point because,
(27:18):
you know, going to tools,there's the time for it and then
.
But you know, trying to push itoff as long as possible is the
way I always think about it.
But there's some books like Idon't know anybody who could
just jump into Isaiah and readit and know what's really going
(27:42):
on and get the context evenstarted without good background
help.
And so, as much as I try topush it off, there's sometimes
where I'm like to even have acontext for what he's saying,
the people that he's talkingabout, what was happening when
he wrote it?
Like, at least, I'm going to goto the ESV study Bible and look
(28:04):
at a real quick okay, what'sthe historical setting, who
wrote it, who did he write it toand what was the occasion?
And the study Bible do a reallygood job at that and making it
simple.
And then if I think I reallyneed to know more on one of
those areas, then I'll hit thecommentary up so that I can
(28:24):
begin to get the context.
Otherwise, sometimes, you know,you go to those Old Testament,
you know prophets or some of thebooks, and you just feel lost,
like I do not know why he'ssaying these things to these
people.
I don't know who those peopleare, that's attacking them, and
you know, we know that we wantGod to destroy them, I guess,
but why I don't know.
And so I kind of break my rulefor those types of books, my
(28:48):
personal rule.
But, yeah, they're reallyhelpful and a lot of times, man,
that ESV study Bible issufficient for a lot of, a lot
of good, a lot of good study,yeah, oh.
So, uh, in that process of uh,one of the things I mentioned in
the breakout that I think isworth saying again here is um,
(29:09):
you know things to be aware of.
Um, when you approach scriptureis because, again, you're
wanting to know what God said,what he intended to say in this
passage, and so what'll help youis being aware of your own bias
, your own preconceived ideas,at least aware enough to know
(29:30):
that you have them.
We all do about everything, andso what lens am I looking at
this passage through?
You know, just being aware thatyou have them and then
recognizing, okay, like whatbeing you know, living in 2025,
raised in this type of family,raised in this type of church,
(29:51):
whatever it is.
What influence do I have?
That I want to make sure I'mnot reading into the text but
allowing the text to speak to me.
So I think, just being aware,my college professor, one of the
guys I really liked he wouldrefer to that as vertical
transference.
He'd say it's like, instead ofgetting the meaning coming up
out of the text, I'm standingover the text and transferring
(30:13):
all my thoughts into the passage, but I'm ignorant that I'm
doing that, so that I'm unawarethat I'm getting all the wrong
meaning out of it.
So, just being careful not todo that, that's a common thing,
especially with theology.
Theology, I think, a lot oftimes you know, depending on
(30:33):
what denomination you come outof, or church you've grown up in
, or you know, maybe a lot ofpeople kind of have a wide range
, have been influenced by a lotof different things.
They don't realize that that'sshaped their theology and
doctrine, which isn'tnecessarily a bad thing at all,
like that's good, like aspastors we want to help people
(30:55):
develop that, but we want themto be aware of it so that all
those things need to submit toScripture.
And the reason why sometimesthere are denominations is
because we're unaware of ourpredisposed ideas about what God
(31:16):
says on a certain subject and,instead of letting scripture
change the way we think, we makethat passage fit our standard
or our theology.
So, just being aware of thatand, first and foremost,
desiring to submit to scripture,and if scripture teaches
something and the context isclear, I need to change my
(31:40):
system rather than try to makethe Bible fit my system.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
That makes sense, makes good sense.
This has been good.
I want to be mindful of yourtime too.
So you've been on the road.
What time did you get in lastnight?
Speaker 2 (31:55):
I got in at 1.30.
You were preaching, but then Iwas too caffeinated.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
You said you and Adam Garner were on the road doing a
SWO thing, and you listened toJoe Rogan interview Wes Huff.
Yes, Everybody's listened tothat.
And then you listened to JoeRogan interview Mel Gibson.
Go ahead and listen to that too, because it's a hoot.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yes, they actually covered some of the same ground
Very differently, with differentwords.
Oh man, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Funny, yeah.
So I want to be mindful of yourtime.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I appreciate you coming in and doing this
recording today, but kind oflanding the plane yeah final
thoughts yeah, so one, uh, uh,this won't be for everybody, but
, man, this helps me a lot.
I got this when I was incollege, my probably my favorite
class uh, I took just a classon the book of romans and one of
(32:52):
the the midterm and the final,the way he designed it.
He said of the the midterm andthe final, the way he designed
it.
He said, you know, for themidterm, you had to summarize
each chapter, a page, no morethan a page, summarize each
chapter from memory.
And what he was going to lookfor was and summarize, being
like basically make your ownparaphrase and he's going to
(33:16):
look for did you get all the keythings?
And so it wasn't like memorizethe chapter and rewrite it, like
you had to internalize thechapter and and reproduce it
without missing the main pointor the, the main themes that run
throughout it.
And so we had to do that formidterm, the first six chapters
and then for the final, theentire book.
(33:38):
And it was overwhelming, but Iloved it.
And you know I haven't tried itin a while, but you know, for so
long, like it wasn't chapterand verse that I had memorized,
but I knew where everything wasand I knew that again, that
argument how that book flowedand how things were building to
(34:01):
an end, you know, and it waslike that is such a cool tool.
So I've tried to keep that.
And when I teach the book ofHebrews for the Institute, I
make them do it A little bit ofpayback and I think it's helpful
.
So I try to do that.
And so just something maybe totry sometime is yeah, you're
going through Philippians,you're doing all that reading,
doing your studying, you know,maybe take a step back and just
(34:22):
see, like can I summarize whatthat chapter was about, you know
?
And just I think it's a goodway to internalize the passage
and really wrestle with itsmeaning.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, that's a good idea.
I do something similar where Ijust write my own commentary.
I do like you I read the bookseveral times and then I'll go
through a book and write my owncommentary, meaning I'll write a
verse-by-verse interpretationof it following these faithful
principles.
(34:53):
I don't want to put my meaninginto it.
I don't want to say what doesthis mean to me?
I want to say what is Godsaying and sort of write my own
notes and thoughts and then goback and check my work with
reputable commentaries, and mostof my preaching and sermon
outlines comes from my writingright.
(35:14):
Not from a commentary, that's areally, really good and helpful.
So I want to do one.
I want to do a fun thing to endit.
Um, I want to do like a rapidfire ask you just a few
questions that don't want a lotof elaboration, don't want a lot
of thought.
Some of them will be related tothis.
Someone would just be fun sopeople can get to know you a
little bit.
So I already know the answer tomost of what I want to ask you,
(35:37):
and these are questions thatyou should be able to get woke
up out of a dead sleep at fourin the morning and answer
without preparing.
So no curveballs.
First, best Bible translationfor studying, and is there a
different one that you preferfor reading or different when
you prefer for teaching?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
um, yeah, I've grown to just love the esv.
I was a new king, new kingjames guy when I came to work
here full time, um, buteveryone's using esv and so I've
come to love it.
It's faithful, it's good, it'sto me it's very clear.
I love just to read the NLTbecause it flows very naturally.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, those are my two as well.
I think we both still enjoy theNew King James and we both
enjoy the CSB.
Yep, those are good ones.
Branching out of that.
Now you say you're a bigfootball fan.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
What's your?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
favorite team.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
The Miami Dolphins.
I need your favorite team theMiami dolphins.
I need to get over the shame ofit.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Just just say it.
Yeah, you just gotta say it.
I did see a picture of theircoach.
What's his name?
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Mike McDaniel.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
And he's wearing like joggers and those glasses.
And then it's a picture, andbeside him is a picture of Tom
Landry, right the Dallas cowboys, in his suit with his derby hat
, and it's like this is wherewe're at yeah, he looks like a
frat guy he does um he'sinteresting dude what is uh,
what's your dream?
Your dream trip to takevacation, fun trip oh man,
(37:08):
that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
I I've got so with my family I'd to go, you know,
like to Hawaii, like with allthe kids and cousins.
You know, I'm real close withmy uh, with nephews and nieces
and my brother and his familyand love to do that Uh, just
with Sarah.
I would love to go uh out Westand, you know, just explore the
(37:31):
different terrain out there anddifferent, you know, jack hole
and all that stuff.
Yeah, um, myself I would loveone day to be equipped enough uh
to do a, you know like acaribou hunt or you know,
something like that yeah, thoseare good, those I thought about
all three of those a lot yes,those are good choices.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
What if a couple more questions?
What if you is there?
If somebody said, okay and I'llgive you like three answers,
you can give three, you don'thave to do one.
If you could meet anybody fromany point in history, give me
three or four people.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Okay, any point in history, you know it's funny.
The first one that just jumpsto my mind.
I'd love to talk to Mel Gibson.
You know, not for whatever.
He's not a hero, but like he'sa fascinating human being
because of his depth ofunderstanding of the gospel.
But then he's crazy and he'smade so many mistakes.
I'd love to sit down and justhave a real conversation.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Without cameras.
Without cameras, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, like man tell me about your life Road trip
without camera.
Without camera, just yeah, likeman, tell me about your life,
what do you really think?
And yeah, uh, I have a softspot because a brave heart and I
mean I want him to be in heaven.
Um, william wallace and melgibson uh, yeah, I, that's a
great question.
Um you, somebody like aSpurgeon would be fascinating to
(38:54):
talk to.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Um yeah, Is there anybody from scripture Is there?
Like one person from scripture.
You're like I'd like to hangout with that guy in context.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Uh, I think uh always more drawn to Peter you know,
then, as far as feeling like Icould hang out with him without
feeling judged, yes everybodyelse, I think you're gonna be
like you got in on technicalityyes, it's so true, that's funny.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Um, and then what about, uh, one person from
history, history, and is therean athlete that you don't want
to meet?
Speaker 2 (39:37):
uh, yeah, I think just the, the, the kid in me
would still love.
You know, dan merino, just yeah, growing up he was, he was it
and um yeah, from history yeah,I don't know, I don't know that
no one jumps out at me well,it's fun.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I appreciate you doing this a lot of time.
I mean, it's almost two hoursof content hour and a half to
two hours of content, but Ithink very helpful.
One of the things that you knowwe want to do, because I mean,
nsr is a slow thing, it's notady thing, and so we're all
behind the cameras.
We've got a whole team hereeven today and you know, in the
(40:22):
tagline there's that that thisis a podcast about the Bible and
culture and stories and thehuman experience, but it's about
the Bible first and foremost.
And we've got our track ontailgate theology or beyond the
flannel graph track, and thisreally will help, I think, in
(40:42):
that area and so hope that y'allget a lot out of this.
Rob, you can reach Rob.
It's just Rob If you email them.
Rob at SW Outfitters it's Rob,not Rob Conte, right?
Just Rob at SW sw outfitterscom.
Um, so feel free to reach outto rob.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
I know you'd be more than willing to share in-depth
notes or whatever yeah, we'll.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
We'll have the main outline available to you in the
in the in the episode notes um,but but uh, yeah, thanks for
coming on.
Yeah, um, we'll run it back ina few months.
Just keep it going, sounds goodAll right.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Thanks for listening to no Sanity Required.
Please take a moment tosubscribe and leave a rating.
It really helps.
Visit us at SWOutfitterscom tosee all of our programming and
resources, and we'll see younext week on no Sanity Required.
Well, we're going to roll right into part two.
If you sat through the lastepisode, then we're going to
pick up right where we left off.
Literally, we're doing all ofthis recording in the same day,
so that way there's cohesivethought.
But if you're listening to thisand you didn't hear the
previous episode, you don't haveto go back and listen to that
(00:21):
now.
But I think you'd want to atsome point.
But we'll just pick right up.
We're talking about theeffectiveness of studying the
scripture, different ideas andapproaches to how you might do
that, how critical it is.
Not just effective, but it'scritical for life and godliness
and, I think, for spiritualhealth, but also for mental and
(00:42):
emotional health for a believer.
And so we're with Rob.
We've got Rob here walking usthrough the main points and
ideas from the breakout sessionthat he taught at a recent
college event at SWO.
We had hundreds of collegestudents here, I think with our
people all total, we werepushing 600, and then the
weather messed us up and I thinkwe ended up in the low fours
(01:05):
in-house.
So there's a lot of collegefolks with a lot of potential
impact on the world 500eyewitnesses to Jesus.
1 Corinthians 15 tells us we hadthat many people under roof
hearing about the effectivenessand the critical nature for the
believer of studying thescripture, and so, um, yeah, so
(01:27):
we'll pick up where we left off.
We do have, um, rob's outlinesand notes are available to you
in the show notes.
So I would even say followalong, because this is laid out,
um, where it's real easy tofollow what we're talking about,
and take your own notes.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So let's just pick up where we left off yeah, yeah,
under, just when you're at thestage just reading the scripture
and reading it like over andover.
So you know, with a like a booklike philippians or new
testament book, it's just easyto read in one sitting and
that's.
I'll do that.
You know, maybe when I'mapproaching a deeper study of
(02:05):
that book, you know, maybe thefirst week or two I really just
listen and I'm allowing, youknow, seeing those main themes
of that book to kind of rise tothe surface.
Really helpful for seeing again, especially in epistles.
But with the gospels and withnarrative, like cause, there's
things that get revealed at theend, whether a statement being
(02:29):
made, like in John's gospel,that you know these things are
written so that you may believethat Jesus is the son of God.
Well, that helps you understand, like why he told certain
stories and didn't tell others,or why he told stories in a
certain way, not that he'schanging what happened, but he's
emphasizing aspects of thestories, or the, the, what Jesus
(02:52):
said to that end.
That's his purpose for writinghis gospel and and so it's, you
know, helpful to get the wholepicture before you try to do any
kind of deep dive, cause youknow you can.
What's the saying Like, missthe forest for the tree.
You know it's kind of theopposite, um, but so it's just
(03:12):
helpful.
And what I found personally indoing that is, uh, just kind of
a almost on accident I'llmemorize scripture.
Because, uh, and I don't know,people are wired differently.
I still fight to like memorizescripture just like I'm going to
take this verse and go over ita bunch.
I typically struggle with thatmore than when I understand the
(03:37):
context around a verse.
It sticks in my brain better.
So when I'm just reading I endup realizing that I'm memorizing
it Like I can, you know, sharewith somebody what I'm learning
and that verse will come outbecause I just know the flow of
the passage.
So other people talk about that.
(03:58):
It's not unique to me.
I think it's just a really goodway to memorize scripture.
But yeah, so you start to seethose themes, and I think about
Romans is a good example.
Just, you realize like, okay,paul lays out like his thesis in
chapter one when he says forI'm not ashamed of the gospel,
for it's the power of God untosalvation for everyone who
(04:20):
believes, for the Jew first, butalso for the Greek, for in it
it the righteousness of God isrevealed from faith for faith.
Then he says for the wrath ofGod is revealed from heaven
against all ungodliness andunrighteousness of men, you know
.
And so it becomes like what hejust said.
What you realize is, you knowthat 16 through 18, the next six
(04:44):
chapters, is really unpackingthe doctrine of that statement.
Well, that's really helpful.
But he kind of does it inreverse order.
He shows the wrath and thejudgment coming down and the
reason why, and then he worksinto how we're justified by
faith and gives examples.
And then the next half of theletter is like okay, here's what
(05:05):
you do with it, the exhortationpart.
So it's just helpful to seethat because again, it helps you
from taking a passage out ofcontext.
You just start to see the wholepicture, do you find?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
that as a Bible teacher because you're not just
a preacher and you also teachBible as part of your job at the
college level, and so you'vegot a different handle on the
scripture than most people haveyou could say you're a
professional.
So that's why I think itmatters for people to listen to
(05:43):
someone like you, because thisis not just a calling that God's
given you, but it's somethinghe's gifted you to be able to
communicate.
And would you say that when,especially with those letters,
you're talking about Paul'sletters, peter's letters, you
know the universal churchletters like Peter and James or
(06:03):
Peter and Jude, I guess?
James was written to the Jewsthat were scattered throughout
the Roman Empire, so there was atarget audience there.
Maybe there's more specific.
I've always heard, and I thinkI've even said most books are
what you just described,described the, the doctrine, and
(06:33):
the, the doctrine and maybe theuh indicatives, which are the
statements of fact.
The things that are that we'retold are true, typically lead
off and then are followed by theapplication, the exhort or the
imperatives or commands.
Is that pretty normal?
I mean, is that the way most ofthose New Testament books flow?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, I believe so.
It seems like that's howthey're designed, and I wonder,
too, how much people make anargument for Romans being
written as a sermon, anhour-long sermon.
Um, so there's a separateconversation but uh uh, and, and
(07:11):
the, the writer of Hebrews,specifically calls his letter a
word of exhortation.
Um, and so, yeah, I believeit's designed to be read aloud
in the church during the sermontime and then from there, you
know, it seems so, it seems tofollow that same pattern of read
.
It give the meaning and thenthe application is like they're
(07:35):
following that pattern.
But yeah, it seems to me thatthat's how the epistles are
designed for the most part, andwith that, when you so, when
you're preaching, you might bepreaching.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Let's say, let's go back to we're in the middle of
winter, swole, and right nowwe're we're preaching
Philippians, um, your, your textfor that is a Philippians four,
four through eight.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Is that what you're preaching?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, rejoice.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
About rejoicing.
But you can also probably takethat and apply it to.
If you're like on the firstnight of winter, swole that
first night I preach a lot ofchapter one.
I can take that message andprobably I could probably stay
(08:23):
just in the book of Philippianswith all my supporting
application from chapters two,three and four.
You can that each one of thosevolumes.
If you approach to read andstudy of a new testament letter,
just know you're.
You're possessing in your handan entire work of doctrine and
theology and application, justwith jude right, which is one
page philippians, which is fourchapters um, and that's why you
can devote so much time tomeditate and study in one
(08:47):
passage yeah, which you know.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
It's one of the things that in my outline, where
you know you're seeing wheresomething stands in relationship
to the immediate context, youknow and you could just, you
know the, the paragraph before,the paragraph after, after, but
then in the book of the Bible,like that it's in, you're seeing
where it stands in relationshipto it, but then you're looking
(09:12):
at, okay, like the entire Bible,the entire story of redemption,
and so it's.
You know, in a sense, like anypassage could lead you to any
other point in the Bible.
You know which folks have gonethrough and done the hard work
of the cross references andthat's one way you end up
bouncing around and it helps.
You know, like, uh, fill outyour theology when you do that
(09:39):
and you see how things tietogether and you know just
becomes more robust.
But but yeah, like, yeah, youcan spend so much time and and I
think man has so much freedomto do that at your own pace and
and not feel like you get boggeddown.
But you know, not beat yourselfup, because all all I got out
(09:59):
of that was, you know, a simpleapplication, like, okay, great,
okay, great, keep at it yeahthat's good.
Yeah, one thing I like to dothere at this point and I say
this and when I sit down tostudy, it's not always all these
(10:20):
things and it's not always inthese orders, but it's just a
general practice.
But I love to read.
I'm not a Greek student.
I can't read.
If you gave me a Greek NewTestament, like I'm done, I read
in English.
I started taking Greek incollege and I switched it.
(10:42):
I dropped out of it college andand I, I switched it.
Uh, I dropped out of it.
Um, you know, not proud of thatit was.
You know, sometimes I'vequestioned, you know man, you
know I was overwhelmed thatsemester and I was like, ah, I'm
going to revisit Greek and Ijust never did Um, and so in
some ways I'm handicapped therecompared to other guys.
But uh, the good news is welive in a time when we have so
(11:04):
many tools and we have reallygood English translations.
They're good, we've got a bunchof really good ones to choose
from.
And so one of the ways that Iguess I would say I make up for
not knowing the originallanguages is I will just read
multiple translations, becausethe reason why there's
(11:26):
difference and there's, you know, nuance to how the translators
or the yeah, the translatorscame up with those versions is
because there's a range ofmeaning for those words, and so
if I read, you know three orfour different translations,
usually I see where I need togive more attention.
(11:47):
Like, okay, they use this wordhere and they use they
translated it this way here.
For me that's just like anindicator of revisit this If I
want to dive deeper.
Like, okay, why?
Like is this word you couldtake it to mean this way and
this word you could take to meanthis way.
And here's where maybe theyintersect.
So I just love reading thedifferent translations because
(12:08):
it shows me those markers of hey, come back to this, make a note
of this, come back, check itout.
Or, you know, maybe I'll go toa Greek tool like Blue Letter
Bible, click on the Strongs andlook at what the Greek
definition is and I try to becareful there because with my
(12:31):
zero knowledge of Greek, I dobetter if I look at okay, what's
just the definition for thisword in Greek?
What's the definition for thisword in English?
But then allow the context ofthe passage to really determine
for me what's the besttranslation of this.
Why did the ESV say this whenthe NLT said this, and they have
different goals, specificallythose two, but maybe more the
(12:53):
ESV and the New AmericanStandard or the CSB, and that
just helps me in my study.
And again, it's a process ofpraying and asking the Lord to
teach me and spending time withthe Lord and it's just fun.
I love the Amplified version.
If you've never checked thatout, I encourage you to.
It's not a paraphrase.
(13:14):
What Amplified does is when itcomes up to certain Greek words
that are important forunderstanding that passage,
it'll put it in parentheses andgive you like the range of that
word, or it'll like, where oneword doesn't suffice, it'll give
you like a phrase to understandwhat in English came out as
just like propitiation and it'llgive you like a fuller meaning.
(13:37):
So it's a.
It's like you're doing all thatall at once with the Amplified.
So I don't teach from it.
It's not my primary version.
I go.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Hearing you explain that and then talking about like
in the Amplified, usingpropitiation, the word that I
always that, differenttranslations of doing what
you're saying, using differenttranslations.
The word that I've been helpedwith, that is the word it would
be pronounced, I believe, teleos, and it's the root word of the
(14:15):
reason I learned that is becausewhen Jesus says tetelestai,
it's the root word of telestai,it means it is finished, and you
see that word show up and betranslated differently in
different passages and indifferent translations.
For instance, in Romans 10.4,it says Christ is the end of the
(14:37):
law.
To everyone who believes End,it is finished.
So if you take that same wordin Romans 10.4, it's like Christ
is the finished, completed, endof the law.
He's brought it to a completion, he's finished it.
Gal.
Galatians, chapter 5, 16 saysso.
(14:58):
I say um walk by the spirit orlive by the spirit, and you will
not carry out the desires ofthe flesh.
Carry out is the same word,right.
It means end or fulfilled orcompleted.
So you can take a word and seedifferent, a different way that
that might be framed in theEnglish language, but it it
(15:20):
enriches the meaning, justwithout leaving the English
Right.
So if I go, galatians five, 16,.
If I go, walk by the spirit andyou will not carry out the
desires of the flesh and I applythat to, and I use the other
translations of that word walkby the spirit and you will not
complete and bring tofulfillment and bring to its
(15:42):
finished work the desires of theflesh, um, if you're walking by
the spirit and it just bringsus alive that's a word that I, I
think one I wrote down.
There's five different wordsused for that Gratify, carry out
, fulfill, perfect, complete,end.
(16:02):
Six words.
Yeah, that all in the Englishwould have a little bit of a
different meaning, right, butthat, come a man, it just brings
it alive.
That's without touching theGreek, right?
I was looking at five differenttranslations, six different
translations.
So, yeah, I like that.
I appreciate that.
You shared that with me yearsago and it's been very helpful
for me.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, and you know, then at other times you go I
remember I can't remember whatthe word was, and I think I was,
you know it's when I firstmoved to Andrews, and so you
know, I'd finished my undergrad,I was halfway through seminary,
you know, which was awesome, sothankful for.
(16:42):
But a lot of things that I feltlike still were like didn't
necessarily prepare me for maybeif I had kept in Greek.
But I remember coming to youand I was like just really
wanting to like I think I was, Iwas feeling what.
I was, encouraging people notto feel like, like to take it as
deep as possible every morning.
(17:03):
And I came to you on on a wordI think it was maybe abide, you
know, or it was something.
So, where I was like I'm just,you know, I'm stuck right here
and I just why how's he using ithere this way?
And you're like it just meansto like live, like you know, it
was so simple.
And you're like what do youmean?
You hung up on it and it was sogood for me because I was like
(17:26):
yeah, I'm, you know, I'm zoomingin, so close I'm, you know, the
picture's now blurry.
So it's this balance and a flowthat you get into in the text
and you're absolutely going tomiss things.
You just are, and that's a goodthing, because if you live long
(17:46):
enough, you'll come back tothis book and read it again.
And that's where people say theLord's always given me
something new, and it's notbecause it's like a spell book.
That's where people say, man,the Lord's always giving me
something new, and it's notbecause it's like a spell book
that's changing.
Sorry, we watched Harry Potterrecently.
But it's because, like thedepth of it, it's the, you know,
the word of God, it's the mindof God, it's the person of
(18:07):
Christ and on paper, withletters, like, you're not going
to plumb the depth of it.
You know, no matter how deepyou try to go.
So you're always going to getmore when you come back.
So, yeah, just being beingflexible and asking the Lord to
teach you what he wants you toget, yeah, so typically at this
(18:29):
point, like I, I try to bebalanced with it, but I really
we've got so many good tools andwe kind of talked about this a
little bit, with even thedevotional aspect, but we've got
the ESV.
Study Bible is an incredibletool that you can put in your
kid's hands.
The NIV has a good study Bible.
(18:51):
There's a lot of good ones.
Those are the ones I'm morefamiliar with.
The Nelson study Bible I hadfor a while was great.
And then there's commentaries,and there's different levels of
commentaries.
There's ones that are, you know, designed more for like a small
group study, and then differentlevels all the way up to.
They're basically written inGreek and Hebrew and Latin and
(19:16):
you know like you need to be ascholar to use them.
There's everything in betweenand those are good and we should
use them, and I'll come back towhy.
But I personally I really tryto fight against going to those
early in my study.
I really try to put that off aslong as I can because, again,
(19:38):
the goal is not to just have ananswer, it's not just to have
just an understanding.
The goal is to spend time withChrist and to be sanctified by
it, by the Word, and so if I'mconstantly depending on somebody
else to just tell me what itmeans, I'm robbing myself of
(19:58):
that time spent with the Lordand time spent learning to hear
from the Holy Spirit, who is theauthor of scripture, who lives
in us.
I don't want to jump over thatI don't want to ignore it,
because here's where I think youknow we should use those tools
and not necessarily all of them.
But you know, in Ephesians we'retold that man God gave the
(20:23):
church, you know, apostles andpastors and preachers and
teachers for the building up andthe edifying of the church, so
that we're not tossed around byevery wind of doctrine building
up in the edifying of the church, so that we're not tossed
around by every wind of doctrine.
And it's like okay, like that'shuge, because in the history of
the church people have like gotit wrong, like people have
(20:50):
fallen into heresy and had wrongbeliefs and that's led to all
kinds of issues.
And it's like, okay, well, wedon't have to keep stepping in
that same pothole because thechurch has already addressed it
and so we can lean on 2,000years of church history, of God
giving us godly people who havestudied the scripture in depth
already corrected errors andsaid, no, that's not orthodox,
that's not like historicChristianity given to us by the
(21:15):
Lord and by his apostles, so Idon't have to step in that same
thing.
So what I like to do is studyit, read it, ask questions of
the text.
You know, just be curious.
I think it's just helpful.
Like you know, I think in thebreakout I said look at it like
you're an investigator, but justbeing curious, just like
wanting to know what's beingsaid, and then do your best to
(21:38):
come up with answers to your ownquestions about what's the main
point of this passage, what isit, what's he really talking
about, what's this building upto?
And you might write stuff thatlater on you go oh, I was way
off and it's because I didn'tknow that that was a, I didn't
know the custom of what wasgoing on in that story.
You know, I didn't know thatwas in, you know, 5,000 years
(22:03):
ago.
That was what Kinsman Redeemermeant.
You know the Ruth and Boazstory, and so I got it wrong.
But what you do is then you goto whether it's you know
somebody that you can just gotalk to that is a, you know,
faithful pastor, bible teacher,or you look at the notes in the
study Bible, or if you get alittle commentary to go along
with it, and then it tells youthat and that reshapes.
(22:25):
Oh, okay, now I see it in thislight and that's super helpful
and it keeps you from, you know,just getting it wrong, and so I
love that and I think we shoulduse it, because the Lord's
given us these people for 2,000years to do that work, so that
we can benefit from it.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Do you have a favorite commentary?
You mentioned several in yourbreakout.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, I have some favorite commentators like FF
Bruce.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I just love him.
His Hebrew is probably yourgo-to it's my favorite hebrews
commentary and so I'll, whateverbook we go to, I'll see if he
has one on it, um, but yeah,then I love uh that.
The one that I recommend themost is the niv application
commentary series.
It's, it's uh, you know, Iguess accessible is the right
(23:17):
word, or it's not overlysimplified.
I don't like uh, I don't likeones that just are like I would
use the word mushy, just youknow, like, just jump to
application and it does, and itgives you the historical context
and then it bridges some of thegrammatical, cultural,
(23:39):
linguistic gaps that are goingto be there.
That, you know, just a normalperson who loves to study the
Bible is not going toautomatically know they cover
those.
And then it goes intocontemporary context.
It's a really helpfulapplication, um, but it's
written solid, but for somebodywho, you know, has to go work 40
(24:03):
, 50 hours a week and raise afamily Like it's, it's, it's
great.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
The.
Uh, if you're, if you'relistening to this and you don't
know exactly what a commentaryis, imagine you've got your
Bible and then you've got, let'ssay, you're going to read we've
been talking about Philippians,so let's say, you're going to
read Philippians.
(24:28):
A commentary on Philippianswould be a book that goes each
verse it's going to kind ofexplain what it means and it's
going to do all these thingsRob's been talking about.
It's going to give you somebackground to it, what was going
on at that time and that place.
And then some practicalapplication for your life and
(24:48):
preachers.
As preachers, we usecommentaries oftentimes to help
us create a flow to a sermon orto fact check things that we've
written, maybe in our ownresearch.
It's just a helpful tool.
But some commentaries can bevery academic and intellectual
and scholarly and hard to really.
(25:10):
You know, you've got to have alot Like the word biblical
commentary series.
You need to have some sort ofGreek background, Um, but then
some can be super shallow whereit's like man.
I think I would be better offjust reading this myself and
writing my own notes andthoughts and so just finding a
good practical commentary thatgives you some good application.
(25:31):
And um, yeah, there's anotherone that I recommend to people a
lot of times.
I don't personally use it a lotand I don't know why I don't
use it a lot, but I used it inthe Daniel study when we
preached through Daniel.
But it's the.
Is it called life applicationor the application?
The NIV application?
(25:52):
There's the NIV commentary onthe new testament, the one I
think you're mentioning.
Then there's another one.
We'll link it, we'll get theseand link it where it gives you
commentary on the passage.
Historical context, modernapplication.
I mean it's three sections toeach passage.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
That's the one I'm.
Is that the one you're talkingabout?
That's the niv applicationcommentary.
Okay, and then there's the oneI'm.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Is that the one you're talking about?
That's the NIV applicationcommentary.
Yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
And then there's the other one.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Which is more wordy.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
A little bit more scholarly.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yes, okay, so that one's called the NIV application
commentary.
Yeah, that's the one Irecommend for people too.
Yeah, because it really does agood job of it'll bring it into
a modern context.
That's good.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
The Exalting Jesus in whatever book of the Bible that
the commentary is on.
It's a Christ-centeredexposition commentary.
It's also a good one, and Iwould say it's even simpler than
that, and so if you're maybe alittle bit intimidated by that
idea, that would be a good one.
Again, we'll link it, butthey're a lot smaller too.
So if you're like I don't wantto dedicate six months to this
(26:56):
book I don't know if I'm readyfor that and you're like, but if
you know, like, hey, inFebruary I'm going to go through
John, that would be a great.
I'd recommend that one a lot.
Yeah, that's the one we a lot oftimes our folks at church are
using to follow along.
Yeah, so yeah, but I broughtthat up at this point because,
(27:18):
you know, going to tools,there's the time for it and then
.
But you know, trying to push itoff as long as possible is the
way I always think about it.
But there's some books like Idon't know anybody who could
just jump into Isaiah and readit and know what's really going
(27:42):
on and get the context evenstarted without good background
help.
And so, as much as I try topush it off, there's sometimes
where I'm like to even have acontext for what he's saying,
the people that he's talkingabout, what was happening when
he wrote it?
Like, at least, I'm going to goto the ESV study Bible and look
(28:04):
at a real quick okay, what'sthe historical setting, who
wrote it, who did he write it toand what was the occasion?
And the study Bible do a reallygood job at that and making it
simple.
And then if I think I reallyneed to know more on one of
those areas, then I'll hit thecommentary up so that I can
(28:24):
begin to get the context.
Otherwise, sometimes, you know,you go to those Old Testament,
you know prophets or some of thebooks, and you just feel lost,
like I do not know why he'ssaying these things to these
people.
I don't know who those peopleare, that's attacking them, and
you know, we know that we wantGod to destroy them, I guess,
but why I don't know.
And so I kind of break my rulefor those types of books, my
(28:48):
personal rule.
But, yeah, they're reallyhelpful and a lot of times, man,
that ESV study Bible issufficient for a lot of, a lot
of good, a lot of good study,yeah, oh.
So, uh, in that process of uh,one of the things I mentioned in
the breakout that I think isworth saying again here is um,
(29:09):
you know things to be aware of.
Um, when you approach scriptureis because, again, you're
wanting to know what God said,what he intended to say in this
passage, and so what'll help youis being aware of your own bias
, your own preconceived ideas,at least aware enough to know
(29:30):
that you have them.
We all do about everything, andso what lens am I looking at
this passage through?
You know, just being aware thatyou have them and then
recognizing, okay, like whatbeing you know, living in 2025,
raised in this type of family,raised in this type of church,
(29:51):
whatever it is.
What influence do I have?
That I want to make sure I'mnot reading into the text but
allowing the text to speak to me.
So I think, just being aware,my college professor, one of the
guys I really liked he wouldrefer to that as vertical
transference.
He'd say it's like, instead ofgetting the meaning coming up
out of the text, I'm standingover the text and transferring
(30:13):
all my thoughts into the passage, but I'm ignorant that I'm
doing that, so that I'm unawarethat I'm getting all the wrong
meaning out of it.
So, just being careful not todo that, that's a common thing,
especially with theology.
Theology, I think, a lot oftimes you know, depending on
(30:33):
what denomination you come outof, or church you've grown up in
, or you know, maybe a lot ofpeople kind of have a wide range
, have been influenced by a lotof different things.
They don't realize that that'sshaped their theology and
doctrine, which isn'tnecessarily a bad thing at all,
like that's good, like aspastors we want to help people
(30:55):
develop that, but we want themto be aware of it so that all
those things need to submit toScripture.
And the reason why sometimesthere are denominations is
because we're unaware of ourpredisposed ideas about what God
(31:16):
says on a certain subject and,instead of letting scripture
change the way we think, we makethat passage fit our standard
or our theology.
So, just being aware of thatand, first and foremost,
desiring to submit to scripture,and if scripture teaches
something and the context isclear, I need to change my
(31:40):
system rather than try to makethe Bible fit my system.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
That makes sense, makes good sense.
This has been good.
I want to be mindful of yourtime too.
So you've been on the road.
What time did you get in lastnight?
Speaker 2 (31:55):
I got in at 1.30.
You were preaching, but then Iwas too caffeinated.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
You said you and Adam Garner were on the road doing a
SWO thing, and you listened toJoe Rogan interview Wes Huff.
Yes, Everybody's listened tothat.
And then you listened to JoeRogan interview Mel Gibson.
Go ahead and listen to that too, because it's a hoot.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yes, they actually covered some of the same ground
Very differently, with differentwords.
Oh man, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Funny, yeah.
So I want to be mindful of yourtime.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I appreciate you coming in and doing this
recording today, but kind oflanding the plane yeah final
thoughts yeah, so one, uh, uh,this won't be for everybody, but
, man, this helps me a lot.
I got this when I was incollege, my probably my favorite
class uh, I took just a classon the book of romans and one of
(32:52):
the the midterm and the final,the way he designed it.
He said of the the midterm andthe final, the way he designed
it.
He said, you know, for themidterm, you had to summarize
each chapter, a page, no morethan a page, summarize each
chapter from memory.
And what he was going to lookfor was and summarize, being
like basically make your ownparaphrase and he's going to
(33:16):
look for did you get all the keythings?
And so it wasn't like memorizethe chapter and rewrite it, like
you had to internalize thechapter and and reproduce it
without missing the main pointor the, the main themes that run
throughout it.
And so we had to do that formidterm, the first six chapters
and then for the final, theentire book.
(33:38):
And it was overwhelming, but Iloved it.
And you know I haven't tried itin a while, but you know, for so
long, like it wasn't chapterand verse that I had memorized,
but I knew where everything wasand I knew that again, that
argument how that book flowedand how things were building to
(34:01):
an end, you know, and it waslike that is such a cool tool.
So I've tried to keep that.
And when I teach the book ofHebrews for the Institute, I
make them do it A little bit ofpayback and I think it's helpful
.
So I try to do that.
And so just something maybe totry sometime is yeah, you're
going through Philippians,you're doing all that reading,
doing your studying, you know,maybe take a step back and just
(34:22):
see, like can I summarize whatthat chapter was about, you know
?
And just I think it's a goodway to internalize the passage
and really wrestle with itsmeaning.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, that's a good idea.
I do something similar where Ijust write my own commentary.
I do like you I read the bookseveral times and then I'll go
through a book and write my owncommentary, meaning I'll write a
verse-by-verse interpretationof it following these faithful
principles.
(34:53):
I don't want to put my meaninginto it.
I don't want to say what doesthis mean to me?
I want to say what is Godsaying and sort of write my own
notes and thoughts and then goback and check my work with
reputable commentaries, and mostof my preaching and sermon
outlines comes from my writingright.
(35:14):
Not from a commentary, that's areally, really good and helpful.
So I want to do one.
I want to do a fun thing to endit.
Um, I want to do like a rapidfire ask you just a few
questions that don't want a lotof elaboration, don't want a lot
of thought.
Some of them will be related tothis.
Someone would just be fun sopeople can get to know you a
little bit.
So I already know the answer tomost of what I want to ask you,
(35:37):
and these are questions thatyou should be able to get woke
up out of a dead sleep at fourin the morning and answer
without preparing.
So no curveballs.
First, best Bible translationfor studying, and is there a
different one that you preferfor reading or different when
you prefer for teaching?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
um, yeah, I've grown to just love the esv.
I was a new king, new kingjames guy when I came to work
here full time, um, buteveryone's using esv and so I've
come to love it.
It's faithful, it's good, it'sto me it's very clear.
I love just to read the NLTbecause it flows very naturally.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, those are my two as well.
I think we both still enjoy theNew King James and we both
enjoy the CSB.
Yep, those are good ones.
Branching out of that.
Now you say you're a bigfootball fan.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
What's your?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
favorite team.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
The Miami Dolphins.
I need your favorite team theMiami dolphins.
I need to get over the shame ofit.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Just just say it.
Yeah, you just gotta say it.
I did see a picture of theircoach.
What's his name?
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Mike McDaniel.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
And he's wearing like joggers and those glasses.
And then it's a picture, andbeside him is a picture of Tom
Landry, right the Dallas cowboys, in his suit with his derby hat
, and it's like this is wherewe're at yeah, he looks like a
frat guy he does um he'sinteresting dude what is uh,
what's your dream?
Your dream trip to takevacation, fun trip oh man,
(37:08):
that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
I I've got so with my family I'd to go, you know,
like to Hawaii, like with allthe kids and cousins.
You know, I'm real close withmy uh, with nephews and nieces
and my brother and his familyand love to do that Uh, just
with Sarah.
I would love to go uh out Westand, you know, just explore the
(37:31):
different terrain out there anddifferent, you know, jack hole
and all that stuff.
Yeah, um, myself I would loveone day to be equipped enough uh
to do a, you know like acaribou hunt or you know,
something like that yeah, thoseare good, those I thought about
all three of those a lot yes,those are good choices.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
What if a couple more questions?
What if you is there?
If somebody said, okay and I'llgive you like three answers,
you can give three, you don'thave to do one.
If you could meet anybody fromany point in history, give me
three or four people.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Okay, any point in history, you know it's funny.
The first one that just jumpsto my mind.
I'd love to talk to Mel Gibson.
You know, not for whatever.
He's not a hero, but like he'sa fascinating human being
because of his depth ofunderstanding of the gospel.
But then he's crazy and he'smade so many mistakes.
I'd love to sit down and justhave a real conversation.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Without cameras.
Without cameras, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, like man tell me about your life Road trip
without camera.
Without camera, just yeah, likeman, tell me about your life,
what do you really think?
And yeah, uh, I have a softspot because a brave heart and I
mean I want him to be in heaven.
Um, william wallace and melgibson uh, yeah, I, that's a
great question.
Um you, somebody like aSpurgeon would be fascinating to
(38:54):
talk to.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Um yeah, Is there anybody from scripture Is there?
Like one person from scripture.
You're like I'd like to hangout with that guy in context.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Uh, I think uh always more drawn to Peter you know,
then, as far as feeling like Icould hang out with him without
feeling judged, yes everybodyelse, I think you're gonna be
like you got in on technicalityyes, it's so true, that's funny.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Um, and then what about, uh, one person from
history, history, and is therean athlete that you don't want
to meet?
Speaker 2 (39:37):
uh, yeah, I think just the, the, the kid in me
would still love.
You know, dan merino, just yeah, growing up he was, he was it
and um yeah, from history yeah,I don't know, I don't know that
no one jumps out at me well,it's fun.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I appreciate you doing this a lot of time.
I mean, it's almost two hoursof content hour and a half to
two hours of content, but Ithink very helpful.
One of the things that you knowwe want to do, because I mean,
nsr is a slow thing, it's notady thing, and so we're all
behind the cameras.
We've got a whole team hereeven today and you know, in the
(40:22):
tagline there's that that thisis a podcast about the Bible and
culture and stories and thehuman experience, but it's about
the Bible first and foremost.
And we've got our track ontailgate theology or beyond the
flannel graph track, and thisreally will help, I think, in
(40:42):
that area and so hope that y'allget a lot out of this.
Rob, you can reach Rob.
It's just Rob If you email them.
Rob at SW Outfitters it's Rob,not Rob Conte, right?
Just Rob at SW sw outfitterscom.
Um, so feel free to reach outto rob.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
I know you'd be more than willing to share in-depth
notes or whatever yeah, we'll.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
We'll have the main outline available to you in the
in the in the episode notes um,but but uh, yeah, thanks for
coming on.
Yeah, um, we'll run it back ina few months.
Just keep it going, sounds goodAll right.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Thanks for listening to no Sanity Required.
Please take a moment tosubscribe and leave a rating.
It really helps.
Visit us at SWOutfitterscom tosee all of our programming and
resources, and we'll see younext week on no Sanity Required.
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