April 24, 2025 • 44 mins
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Nicole Wahby shares her journey of breaking free from limiting family expectations to create an authentically joyful life through event planning and setting healthy boundaries. Her story illustrates how stepping away from negative influences—even family—can open space for genuine fulfillment and success.
• Growing up in a "primarily miserable family" where her father insisted "happiness doesn't matter in marriage as long as you get a kid out of it"
• Finding her purpose at 16 while attending a rave, realizing she wanted to create joyful experiences for others
• Building an event planning business by taking various jobs to fund her creative ventures
• Learning to step away from family members who consistently failed to match her energy or appreciate her efforts
• Navigating professional relationships with women who seem more focused on personal life questions than business capabilities
• Experiencing dating challenges as an independent woman with established success and happiness
• Overcoming imposter syndrome while persistently asking questions and seeking opportunities
• Valuing freedom and partnership over traditional relationship expectations
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mary (00:05):
Welcome to No Shrinking Violence.
I'm your host, Mary Rothwell,licensed therapist and certified
integrative mental healthpractitioner.
I've created a space where wecelebrate the intuition and
power of women who want to breakfree from limiting narratives.
We'll explore all realms ofwellness, what it means to take
up space unapologetically, andhow your essential nature is key
(00:28):
to living life on your terms.
It's time to own your space,trust your nature and flourish.
Let's dive in.
Hi and welcome to the show.
Often, my guests are women thatI know personally and that have
compelling stories that inspireme to want to share these women
with you.
(00:48):
As is often a topic here, womenhave unique pressures to live a
certain type of way, to settledown, have kids, and way too
often, subliminal scriptssometimes cultural, sometimes
gender-based set women up ascompetitors while at the same
time putting pressure on them tosmile and be nice.
(01:09):
My guest today seems to havestepped out of that lane with
those society-informedguardrails, and she lives based
on what makes her feel morefulfilled.
However, as with most of us,she had to find a way to tell
her own unique story, and thatusually means making hard
choices and learning toughlessons.
(01:30):
So, of course, I wanted toshare some of her unique story
with you.
Her name is Nicole Wahby and Imet her through an improv class.
Yeah, it's a thing I starteddoing with my husband in January
.
Not something on my bucket list, but I signed us up together as
a surprise for him and, wow,what an unexpectedly
(01:51):
mind-opening experience.
Anyway, from the first class, Irecognized Nicole's energy a
very positive aspect of a fellowimprover.
The interesting thing aboutimprov at least in our level one
class is that the only thingyou really know about your
classmates is their first name.
It makes everyone feel likewe're starting from the same
(02:12):
point.
We're just trying to learn tocreate interesting and funny
scenes and support each other onstage.
As we moved through the classand had moments to talk more
personally, I recognized thatNicole has had some unique
family relationships and careersituations that have shaped her.
That's really the essence of us.
We are shaped by nature and ourenvironments and really we all
(02:36):
have unique stories.
Although the themes of her lifecould yield so many cool and
interesting discussions, todaywe're going to talk about her
experiences with settingboundaries in all areas of her
life, with family, other women,men and just generally taking up
her space in life in a way thatallows her to feel fulfilled
(02:57):
and empowered.
Welcome to no Shrinking Violets, nicole.
Nicole (03:02):
Thank you, Mary.
Thank you so much for having metoday.
I'm very excited to be here.
I hope I don't cry withexcitement and joy but I don't
know, until I get so excitedthat I just burst into tears.
Mary (03:15):
Okay, well, crying is totally acceptable, and I'm
really excited to talk to youbecause we're certainly going to
, I think, touch on things thatwe have not even discussed
personally when we're hangingout in improv class.
So, first of all, the thingthat I find so fascinating one
as well as I think other peoplein your family have pretty
(03:47):
traditional ideas about women,marriage and kids.
Nicole (03:50):
right, oh, yes, yeah, we , it was really cute.
We I had to take your father towork day a few weeks ago to get
him out and, you know, intolife.
And now that he's retired andwe had a great conversation in
the car where he goes, babe, youknow, I thought we were having
(04:13):
a good day, but he just blurtsout, babe, I, I just need to see
you married with with children.
And I said, excuse me, we'vehad this conversation and he
goes yeah, but you're not goingto be happy and I'm not going to
be happy until I see youmarried with children.
And I said, dad, I'm surroundedby children.
What do you mean?
(04:33):
Like our family's so big, he'sone of nine, my mother's one of
nine, I think there are like allbut 70 cousins between us with
just as many children.
I have friends that have mademe a godmother of eight children
, my brothers have kids, and sofor my father to still be on me
(04:54):
at this age in life, like, oh, Ineed to see you married with
children.
And I looked at him and I said,dad, but you don't think I have
kids in my life already?
He's like, yeah, but you don't.
You know he goes, there areother people who need their own.
And I said, well, are you happy,you know, with, with your
marriage and life?
And he goes, that doesn'tmatter.
And I thought, well, it does tome and I that's more important
(05:16):
to me, and I'm happy where Istand now with the kids I do
have in my life.
And I just couldn't.
I thought it was even funnierwhen, as we were driving in the
car having this conversation,and he's telling me you know,
happiness doesn't matter inmarriage as long as you get a
kid out of it.
And then we go to my brother'shouse and we're sitting there in
(05:40):
his living room and there's twoguys about my age that walk up
to the door, ring the doorbell.
My father looks at me and Ilook at my brother and my
brother gets up to answer thedoor and I look at my father and
say, what about one of thoseguys?
Any one of them will do right.
Well, of course.
Mary (05:57):
I've never met your dad, but he sounds like quite a piece
of work and so you know you.
You sort of had shared with methat his little quote about you
know happiness not mattering,and you really strike me as
someone who kind of grabs joy.
And you know, for a little peekbehind the curtain, you're
actually taking two level, twoimprov, so I get to have class
(06:20):
with you again, but you'redoubling your effort, which is
so cool.
So you had shared something kindof about your career path and
so I'm going to jump to thatright now because I think that's
really interesting, because Ithink that so you have your own
business and you can talk aboutthat in a minute.
But I love how the path thatyou took to get there, and I
(06:44):
think one of the things that ishard for a lot of people and
this is men and women is when wethink about career focusing
more on feeling fulfilled thanthis need to make a certain
amount of money.
There's a lot of social scriptstuff around.
You have to make money to besuccessful.
So talk a little about whatyour path was to where you are
(07:05):
today.
Nicole (07:06):
Yeah, I never knew.
Growing up as a child, I reallythought I was going to be a
teacher or a veterinarian,because I loved just the idea of
a classroom, people comingtogether and teaching them
something.
I love the idea of taking careof animals and I thought that's
what it's going to do.
And then, as life grew and wenton, I and mostly growing up in
(07:31):
a primarily miserable familywhat opened my eyes was when I
was like 16 and I went to a clubunder age, was when I was like
16 and I went to a club underage and it was this little rave
and I, just I filled up with joyand my life purpose was clear
(07:52):
that I was meant to party and bea part of, you know, an event
celebrating life.
And again, growing up withprimarily miserable people, I
got a taste of like utter joyand my mission was clear that I
need to work hard to bringpeople together to celebrate and
(08:13):
dance.
And from there I was 17.
I produced my first music eventby 19,.
I produced, like I think, twoor three more.
And then I went to college and,uh, and I was always working
like as a server.
I worked for my aunt's cleaningbusiness.
I was always.
I was always operating as apersonal assistant, also to the
(08:37):
people that I would just doeverything for them and organize
their home and walk their dog.
I'd help at their dinnerparties.
I was just always hustling andworking, working.
But the goal was always so Icould produce an event to invite
people out to celebrate, torelieve themselves of the
mundane lives that they lived,and they could be happy.
(08:57):
And that's really how my careerstarted was I was striving to
bring people together bycreating an experience to bring
them joy.
And by the time I was in collegeand getting out of college, I
started combining my love of artand music and created this show
called Art in the Dark and bythen I could invite my family
(09:20):
with their kids, my clients andtheir kids so it was an all age
show and have this immersive artand music experience.
And people really lit up over itand they're like, wow, if you
could do that, what other eventscan you do?
And that's when I it was like2015 where I started NSW events
(09:41):
and I was like, yeah, I am anevent planner, that's what I
love to do, that's my job,because up until then, I just
was just grinding to producethese events and then knowing
that I could actually hold thattitle and learn that that job
exists and you can get paid forit, then, yeah, the money came
after it and you learn a lot oflessons along the way how to
(10:03):
charge properly and what to do,what not to do.
You know setting boundariesalong the way, but that's
ultimately how my career startedand is the path that it's
continuing in.
Mary (10:15):
You know, that's so inspiring because you make it so
clear that you had anexperience.
You felt that, and I callthings your essential nature,
Like it obviously connected withyour essential nature of loving
the idea of people comingtogether, people being happy.
(10:37):
You know, I have this image ofyou at 16, like dancing at a
rave.
I can easily see that, believeit or not, Nicole.
So I love that image that comesto mind.
But I think one of the thingsthat's beautiful about that is
you didn't deny it, Like youidentified it.
(10:57):
You continue to build more ofit into your life in various
ways and your path started tobecome clear, which that's where
I think people maybe back off,Like they feel like well, this
feels so good, it can't be whatI'm supposed to do.
But I'm also wondering like didyou?
Were there people along the way?
(11:19):
Because I think you majored inart in college.
Nicole (11:22):
Yeah, I took liberal, I majored in liberal arts, visual
arts, and then I subbed inbiology and, quite honestly, I
hated getting graded for myartwork and every you know.
You take these classes atdifferent levels and they give
you parameters that you have toproduce your final show and I
was always good at workingaround those parameters to
(11:44):
elevate my final projects, whichthen encouraged the other
students and it's just, it'sjust looking back, you know
where I am now?
Then it's, I am a show builder,yeah, and that's, and it's just
one of those things I was likeoh yeah, I did go to college for
this, but college didn't teachme what I know today.
Mary (12:08):
Yeah, life did Right and I think following following that.
So you mentioned something that, of course, with my career in
mental health, you know itperked my ears up.
You talked about coming from afamily that you felt was like
pretty much not happy, not a lotof joy.
How do you think you were ableto step out of that?
Nicole (12:30):
Oh my heaven, I just inherently woke up happy every
day and couldn't understand whythey would fight and be
miserable.
And I just noticed that theydidn't know how to receive love
or give love.
They didn't know how to receivelove or give love.
How I stepped out of it wasjust not embracing their
mannerisms and being true tomyself.
And I will say, the pandemic,uh, specifically really shone
(12:56):
the light on me, having to notonly step aside but just step
away from them, um, causethey're just miserable people.
I was like, no matter how muchjoy you know, I fought for years
, for for decades, trying tobring this family up to my level
(13:16):
of joy and I just I realized atsome point that they were never
gonna match my excitement, theywere never gonna appreciate the
ideas I wanted to share withthem.
Um, if I said, hey, I want togo to this concert, do you want
to join me?
It was always like, oh, why,that's dumb music.
But if they had an idea to goto a concert, well then it was
(13:40):
the best damn thing andeverybody could go.
Okay, I remember organizing anannual event when my uncle
passed away.
I was like, well, I want tobring us together.
I always wanted to bring ustogether and I always thought
that by lead by example, they'llcome around.
And I remember I did this eventevery year and everyone was
(14:03):
invited and it's such a bigfamily that I had to rent a
school bus to fit all 40 of usand I paid for it 100%.
That was my.
I said it was the birthday,christmas gift, everything,
because we're too big andobnoxious to buy gifts for every
occasion for each other.
And so we were sitting there atthe table one day and I
remember my one cousin goes.
(14:25):
You know, I would just love ifwe could all do something
together in the same context ofus talking about my snow tubing
trip, and I just looked and Isaid, really Well, that's what
this trip's about.
And he's like, yeah, but I meansomething, something else.
And I was like can't you justacknowledge that this is cool
and I am doing something tobring us together, because no
one else has taken initiative?
(14:46):
And it was again just like atthat time.
It was another kind of a milemarker of I should really step
away from these people.
They're not.
They're not matching my energy,they're not appreciating what
I'm doing.
And it was just, you know,after like the third strike, so
to speak, when the pandemic camearound.
(15:07):
I was like I just got to guardmyself and I've got to step away
and I'm not going to make theimpression on them that I've
been striving for all theseyears.
And when I realized that mylife just opened up tremendously
.
Mary (15:23):
Yeah, I think it's funny that sometimes, when we talk
about boundaries, I think peopletend to hear that word as
something that's limiting, butwhat it does is, I think it you
talked about matching yourenergy.
I think it puts the thingsaside that pull you down, that
really do close up your life,and it allows you to find
(15:46):
empowerment and it opens you upto doing what you really think
makes you happy Totally totally.
Nicole (15:53):
I mean I met you in improv class because I find I'm
a bit of a comic.
Mary (15:58):
She's very good at it, people, by the way.
Nicole (16:02):
Well, thank you.
And it's like that banter, thatrelease that I have in improv,
that's where I'm like, I feellike my natural self.
Anything goes I can say, youknow, I can interrupt people to
get a laugh, you know, but I'mnot interrupting to be offensive
.
And you know, it's like I couldnever have that banter with the
(16:23):
people I grew up with and Icould never celebrate my life,
my accomplishments, what I wasdoing with them, because my
banter was just offensive tothem.
Like anything I said, anythingI do, and I was like man.
Like anything I said, anythingI do, and I was like man.
You know, I just I don't feellike I could be myself, you know
.
And again, circling back tojoining improv and everything,
(16:44):
I'm like, yeah, this is who I am, this is who I'm supposed to be
, this is what I'm supposed tobe doing, and it just constantly
confirms how important it is torelease people that aren't
serving you in life even if theyare related to you, you don't
have to hang on to them.
Mary (17:02):
Yeah, you just said what I was going to say, that we have
this again.
It's a societal idea that yourfamily are always the people
that have your back and it'sreally hard to, you know, have
that time of reckoning where youit sounds like you tried, you
tried and finally you were likeyou know what, it doesn't matter
(17:23):
what I do, they're not going tobe.
In a sense, they're ended up notreally being your tribe, you
know, in the sense of buildingyou up.
So, to take a little side pathhere and it's something that you
and I talked about a little bitI know in my life that the
(17:44):
women that I have as friends aresome of my biggest supports and
some of them I met throughdifferent jobs.
However, I think you and I haveboth had some experiences where
we walk into a professionalspace with other women and we
assume that it's going to kindof be that same thing we expect
(18:05):
from family, that we're all inthe same place to grow, to
support each other.
But you don't always have apositive experience, right?
Sometimes that weird womencompetition comes up right and
it feels like what am I supposedto do with this?
Nicole (18:20):
Yes, totally.
So.
You know, man, I recentlyjoined some networking groups
and, yeah, just meeting womeneven before the networking group
, just getting interviews withpeople that you know might want
to hire me, and whatnot.
It's really bizarre because,yeah, I bring this like, yes,
I'm happy, let's celebrate.
Wait, you want to celebrate?
(18:40):
Let's, let's get together andbuild, you know, a party, build
an event.
And I get excited and to me I'mlike that's in where, yeah,
they're matching, they're goingto be matching.
I assume they're going to matchmy energy, I assume they're
going to easily fit in and be apart of my tribe.
And for some reason, the primaryquestion is so, Nicole, nice to
(19:03):
meet you, why did you want totalk to me today?
And I thought, oh my God, I'msorry, you sent me an email to
talk to me.
Did I miss something?
And they're like well, yeah, Iwas just wondering do you have a
family?
Are you married?
I thought, wait a second, Arethey trying to date me or work
with me?
Where are these questionscoming from?
(19:25):
You know, I thought we werehere to talk about building an
event or working together, andit's.
I'm just learning that in familyyou've got to watch your back
because you learn you knowpeople that you think are going
to be there to support youaren't.
And once you accept that, it'sa relief.
You know, in the dating world,once you accept that a man's not
there to support you, you knowhe just wants one thing out of
(19:47):
you.
You're like, OK, I recognizethe red flags and I know how to
carry on from it.
But now, with women in theworkforce experiencing this
whole new state of misguidedsupport, it's like a bait and
switch is what I feel I'mgetting with them.
You know, like they're curiousabout me and they say they want
(20:09):
to support me, but it's reallyjust to soothe their own
curiosities, the questions thatthey're asking me.
It's not at all starting offabout my work, my work ethic,
you know my goals or myabilities, and it's just utterly
surprising and I feel I've putmy walls up a little bit in that
sense, because I'm like where'sthis coming from?
I'm not that way, you know.
(20:29):
If you tell me, oh, I, you knowI'm Mary, I'm a psychologist
and this is what I do, I'd belike, great, that's awesome.
When did you decide that Iwould never start a conversation
with anyone, male or female, oftheir personal life, their
personal relationship status,children, not having children
and it's really bizarre to mebecause, again, what these
people don't know is the amountof kids I do have in my life
(20:53):
that.
I do love and support and takecare of and watch and travel
with, and it just makes me wantto respond, but in a defensive
fashion and I don't feel that'sactually has anything to do with
business.
And it's bizarre to me, you know, and I think, okay, how do I
turn it around?
And again, in improv, we'retaught to yes and Right, but
(21:14):
when I'm approached with thesequestions in the work
environment, it's hard for me toyes, and because I think, well,
are they going to receive myjoke if I give it back to them?
And how do I pivot from this?
What I really want to say iswell, I'm just here to take your
husband's ladies watch out.
Mary (21:36):
Well, you know, you have, you have a big energy and you
know, I think in improv I thinkit can be intimidating initially
when you're in level one andeverybody's trying to find their
footing.
But, as I said in my intro,when you have someone, with the
energy you have and for those ofyou who don't really know
(21:57):
improv you establish a scene andyou do that by building on what
whoever initiated the scenedoes or says, so you're always
supporting.
It's a whole community ofsupport.
But, as I also said in my intro, we didn't know anything about
each other except our firstnames, and that is an experience
you do not often have Because,as you're saying, most people
(22:20):
need to figure out where someonebelongs and unfortunately in
our society we do that with areyou married, do you have kids?
What job do you have?
We didn't fall into thatbecause we couldn't, we just had
to meet people on stage.
So it's interesting because Ithink you come into a space with
that energy and people aren'tused to that and I think it can
(22:45):
be maybe intimidating, or otherwomen might be like why is she
so happy?
Like what's really going onhere?
And it's unfortunate that wealso have sort of a script where
we well, I'm not going to saywe, many of us feel a sense of
envy or like, oh, wow, likethere must be more to this than
(23:09):
what I'm seeing.
And you know, and we sense thatright, I think we can,
sometimes before women even talk.
You know, I said to somebodyone day it was a guy I said you
know, when women go into socialspaces, we dress for other women
, you know.
And he's like what do you mean?
I said well, do you notice thatoften women will look at other
(23:30):
women more critically than in adifferent way than men might
look at a woman?
Nicole (23:36):
Do you know what I mean?
You know, I've heard thatsaying Mary for years.
But I can't tell you.
I can relate because I don'tdress for anyone but myself.
I've never dressed for otherwomen.
I see how that holds weight.
But there again, that's where,like, my curiosities end.
I mean, maybe I can't explainit, but I see it.
(23:56):
I've heard that I hear otherwomen be like, oh my God for
sure, I want my girlfriends tocompliment me, you know.
I want them to ask where I gotthis and have them feel a little
envious that they can't havethis because I had it made or
something like that.
And I'm like, oh my God, Itruly only have ever dressed for
my comfort and how I want topresent myself in that moment.
Or you know what I'm doing inlife that day, you know.
(24:19):
So, for instance, like thecomedy classes, I'm coming fresh
out of work so I'm in my black,all black on black uniform, not
dressed to impress at all,because I'm just living behind
the scenes setting stuff upprior to, you know, arriving the
class.
But yeah to, you're saying Iwish I could understand that
(24:40):
thing more, quite honestly,because I don't dress for other
women and I don't know that anyone woman has dressed for me,
but I do love looking at fashion.
I love complimenting peoplewhen they look good, of
complimenting people when theylook good, but I've never put
someone down if I felt theirattire was off for the occasion.
Mary (25:02):
Well, and I think your response there is one of the
things that sums up who you are,because you somehow were able
to sidestep that socializationand a lot of us have been sort
of molded or, you know, kind offormed socially to look at other
(25:23):
women, to know if we're okay.
And that's where one of themany ways I think that you are
unique, because you really seemto sidestep that, so you show up
in a space with so muchauthenticity, and I think that
is part of what I'm picking uphere is that I think when you
can show up in that authenticway, people that don't have that
(25:48):
sense of self or maybe sense ofself-confidence, that can feel
a little bit intimidating, Iguess.
Nicole (25:54):
So but I've never wanted to have anyone feel intimidated
by me.
If anything, I've alwaysstrived to have people feel
comfortable around me.
I always say I want to be theperson that I get back in this
life and, if I can, I'll giveyou a fun little memory.
You know, as I pass by, or youknow whether the interactions
(26:15):
brief or or long it's.
I just want it to be a goodmemory of something like oh,
that was fun.
You know, I remember you fromthis and I actually get that a
lot lately Like I remember youfrom you know you and your dog
walking down the street withpink and it's like there's so
many little things that happenand, yeah, I hope to not
(26:37):
intimidate anyone actually, soit's wild to think that others
would be intimidated by me, bymy presence.
Mary (26:45):
Well, and I think that might be why, when you walk into
some of these and I don't Idon't want to certainly
stereotype all women, this isnot all women women because,
like I said, some of my mostbeautiful friendships have come
from the workplace and these arewomen that I think share this
sense of wanting to actuallybuild other women and men,
(27:05):
anyone build them up, and sowhen you go into a space and you
go in with your sort of thefoundation that you have of I
want to take any situation andkind of you know make it shiny
and you know, make it the bestit can be, it can really be
confusing when you start tointeract with people who kind of
(27:28):
a little bit like you said,your family, that they're going
to look for the things thataren't shiny or the things that
are routine or even negative,and it can be like what?
Like that's what is going on,like I don't know.
Nicole (27:41):
Yes, I have to.
I have to interrupt you thereand say I do realize that
leading with positivity is notrelatable, is not relatable and
most people lead with pity me,feel bad for me, relate to my
sob story and then help meBecause, no matter what, we're
(28:08):
all helpers right.
We all want to help in somefashion or another and yeah, I
have definitely realized.
It seems you can get more attimes, depending on your
audience, if you lead with pityand a.
Woe is me personality versus a.
I'm just happy to be here,let's do everything together.
Mary (28:27):
Yeah, and you know I feel like you're a realist.
You know I never felt like youcome in, like you know, with
guns blazing, like toxicpositivity.
I think you're just a realist.
Nicole (28:38):
You know, it's your energy, I think.
Mary (28:40):
It's not like you come in talking all the time or, you
know, like preaching peace andlove.
Yeah, you have a sense aboutyou that is, you know, positive
and uplifting.
Okay, so you mentionedsomething I got to circle back
on.
You mentioned the world ofdating.
Okay, so you mentionedsomething I got to circle back
on.
You mentioned the world ofdating and I'm going to tell you
personally as, having, you know, done a lot of dating before I
(29:02):
got married, I think sometimes,when you can go in with a lot of
, I'm going to again say shinepositive energy.
I think sometimes you learn andI'll own this I learned that I
need to tone it down a littlebit because sometimes men
misinterpret that.
What has been your experience?
Nicole (29:24):
Oh yeah, yeah, they think I'm down for anything.
I'm just this fun, bubblyperson and I'm like, because I'm
just this fun, bubbly personand I'm like I'm not down, I'm
up for most things.
However, I will say, when itcomes to dating, I lead with a
lot of questions, but I am funand spontaneous and I realize I
(29:49):
typically I'm leading the dateand it's only fun because of me.
And so what I've learned in thedating world is to see if a man
is confident enough to lead andwhat is his humor and
personality like, yeah, men,again, men want to be fixers and
they want to.
They want to find like a happybut also like quasi broken woman
(30:12):
that they can fix, and that'show they find their place in
their life you know, in thatwoman's life and I'm not saying
I don't have problems, but butI'm, I've been really good about
having solutions to my problemsand not making my problems
other people's issues.
You know, I certainly ask forhelp when I need it.
I'm not shy about that,especially if I know what you do
(30:34):
and I'm like, oh, I need helpin that field.
Right now I'm going to callthat person up and cause I trust
them and uh, but dating is justjust a freaking whirlwind and
it's ridiculous and it's anothergame that you have to play.
That's not always fun and likeit's hard to have your guard up.
But also be myself, you know,as I mean, I'm also you're
(30:57):
talking to me now at the statewhere I'm just so over dating.
I remember when I first joined adating site and even my friends
were like you are way too goodfor that.
I'm like I know I've never.
You know even let's circle backto my dad when he's like I need
you to find someone, babe, andI said why do I have to find
(31:19):
someone?
Can't they find me?
And I, I've never been a hunter, I've never been a woman who
like goes out and was like I'mgoing to find a boyfriend today.
You know they, the men, truly I,the guys I end up dating.
I we've stumbled, you know,across each other's paths and
they were persistent enough.
They're intelligent, they had asense of humor and I said, ok,
(31:42):
but it didn't work out and Iaccept that and no matter what,
I've always kind of been a loneranyway, I like my freedom in
that sense.
I like that I can float aroundand hang out with my 80 year old
friends or an eight month oldAll in the same weekend and have
a frickin blast doing itwithout having to explain myself
(32:05):
to anyone.
And you know that my yeah, myfriends and family age range is
so vast.
I have a great community inthat sense and to bring in
anyone, it's hard for a man tounderstand that.
It's hard for a man tounderstand how reasonable and
emotionally stable I am as awoman dating.
(32:26):
And yeah, it's just, it's wild.
I'm kind of definitely over itright now.
Mary (32:32):
You value freedom.
Nicole (32:33):
Yeah, yeah, I totally value my freedom and it's you
know.
Yeah, you go into a date,you're positive, and guys are
like, oh great, you want toreally have fun.
So I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa,pump the brakes.
So, yeah, I'm kind of overthose same redundant
conversations and actions that Ihave to go through to defend
(32:54):
and protect myself and my peace.
But I'm like I'm just here tohave fun and live my life period
.
Mary (32:59):
I know there are men that can meet that independent energy
and allow it to exist, becauseI'm married to one.
But it is difficult because,you know, we talk or I talk so
much about social scripts andall of this stuff and men have
them too.
And, as you said, you used theword fixer.
(33:19):
So I think you know, we, someof us, still think that we have
these traditional roles, but Ithink when you come from a place
of having created so much inyour life and when you create
your own business, wow, you haveto learn so much to do that.
And so, yeah, I think it can be, as we said, intimidating for
(33:40):
women and men, because there'sthat comparison and sometimes
and this is only certain men canhave that feeling well, what
does she need from me?
Precisely, Precisely.
And you don't need anything,right, you just want a partner.
Nicole (33:57):
my narrative as a teenager watching my friends and
cousins date terribly, you knowlike just just pick all the
wrong people.
I mean, I just always said likeI don't want a temporary
boyfriend, and that's definitelya temporary situation.
I want a partner in life.
I've always said that at ayoung age and that's still.
(34:18):
What I want now is someonewho's a partner, who's a
supporter, who adds to my life,and I think I'm I'm really lucky
and I have a lot that it's hardto add.
You know it's weird and it'swild, but I definitely, yes, I
want and desire someone who's inaddition to my life, not
(34:41):
someone who like, oh, I couldn'tlive without them.
That is such a wild thought tome to be like you couldn't live
without that person.
I mean even my very bestfriends.
I can't imagine a day withoutthem, but God forbid, if
something happened I could stilllive.
I also think it's really funnyhow, on social media, how
there's women who you know everycouple months and years they
(35:04):
found their soulmate once againand it just doesn't have to be
that traumatic.
Mary (35:09):
Well, it occurs to me to ask you, because you come across
with so much self-confidenceand even saying you've known or
sensed a lot of things from ayoung age, which I will say I
think all of us do, but we alongthe way, maybe doubted, like
well, this is what I really wantto do, but I don't know if it's
okay.
Did you have those doubts, thatimposter syndrome or like maybe
(35:32):
a limiting narrative?
Did any of that come into playfor you along the way?
Oh, yes, Always, always.
Nicole (35:39):
Because growing up, you know, it was the quintessential
beast scene, not heard.
My creativity was not welcome,my humor was not welcome, and so
, as I would try and express ithere and there, you know I was
always nervous if the crowdwould receive it or not.
And that's when I againrealized that, well, if I just
(36:01):
produced it myself, I don't haveto go to a company and say
trust my process, and that I canbuild a cool event.
I just worked doing jobs Ididn't love so I could afford to
produce what I wanted to sharewith the world.
But even then, you know, I didthese events, and I mean still
to this day, I have impostersyndrome because I'm like I
can't believe I did all this.
(36:22):
And then people still ask who Iam.
I'm like you're right.
Mary (36:25):
Who am I?
I don't know.
Nicole (36:26):
No, I don't know.
I just I enjoy bringing peopletogether and that's it, you know
.
And then, with technology todayand knowing I'm not the best at
computer work, but I can reallybuild you a space that's
beautiful and entertaining.
Computer work, but I can reallybuild you a space that's
beautiful and entertaining, yeah, I have a lot of imposter
(36:49):
syndrome, especially startingfrom a young age, where I knew I
had a gift, I couldn't share itand I had to somehow break
through to people to listen tome and hear me and see me, to
let me in, you know, to hire me,you know to just hire me and
trust me.
And that's really hard.
(37:10):
I mean, I don't know that youcan teach that.
I don't know how many books youhave to read to figure that out
, but, damn it, I figured it outsomehow.
I broke in.
I broke in by doing a lot ofjobs.
I didn't like to get in frontof the people that I wanted to
be in front of, to get theopportunities that I needed and
wanted to provide a life formyself.
Mary (37:31):
Well, you definitely have really embodied one of the main
things that I talk about all thetime, and that's taking up your
space, and I think you know I'mthinking now that all these
themes that we're talking abouthave to resonate, because
there's not anyone who had,first of all, a linear path to
(37:52):
success.
There's not anyone that didn'thave failures along the way.
And you know these times wherethey look at something and
they're like, oh my gosh, likehow did I do that?
Or can I do that.
And you know, I think yourmessage of you do it anyway, and
that's you're right.
There are many books on it, butyou have to do something.
(38:15):
By doing it and being willingto take the chance, and you just
really have the ability toconnect with the essence of who
you are as a person and put thatin the world.
Nicole (38:28):
Well, thank you, yeah.
And that truly started at ayoung age again, going back to
my childhood, where you know myparental figures would just say
no for everything.
And I would sit as a child andwonder at every angle why would
they say no, is it dangerous?
No, am I really going to getlost?
No, am I going to get taken?
(38:48):
No, how much is it going tocost?
Not that much.
I would just sit and brew andfor every angle I just always
looked at the big picture andcouldn't understand why the no.
But yet I was persistent and Iwould ask.
And at a young age I wouldalways ask.
And then I'd ask why?
And you don't ask your parentalfigures, why?
(39:10):
Because they said so.
But I always had that same justask.
Who cares?
Just ask.
And that's that's how I got in.
You know, to so many spacesthat I got into was because I
just asked.
I put myself in front of thefield like oh, you're the owner,
so can I do this here?
Most people might have feardoing that and I thought I never
(39:33):
had the fear to ask to be letin, even when I was going to
nightclubs at a young ageillegally, like I didn't care.
I asked like can you let me in?
I know the bouncer, I know theDJ and I guess you know my
maturity level was great and myconfidence was there.
They're like, yeah, go, goright on ahead.
I was like, yep, that's myfriend over there.
(39:54):
And then, like even events thatI did, I just pranced in the
space and I was like who ownsthis joint?
I want to have an event here.
I've got this wild idea and Ijust had to ask.
I never stopped asking, eventoday, like I remember my
brother used to fight me growingup and be like Nick, you're
going to get us in trouble, stopasking.
And I was like no, they're notproviding a reasonable reason
(40:16):
for us, they're not providing areasonable explanation to say no
, like they're just beingmiserable and mean for no reason
.
I can't accept that.
And then that carried over intowork life where it's like, and
you know, owners of buildings,they want you to bring crowds
into their space.
Of course they're going to sayyes.
And then I follow through andyou know the amount of people
(40:38):
I've had come to me like I didnot think you're going to pull
that off.
You know, as a 20 year old,something you know, new person
in the area versus a man in hisyou know, puts in 60, who's done
like all the major events inHarrisburg for so long.
And he was like I did not thinkyou, this little punk kid, was
going to show up and really showout and here you did, and I was
(40:58):
like well, yeah, I did what Isaid I was going to do.
You know, to me it's as simpleas that.
I said I was going to do what Isaid I was going to do and it
turned out.
It makes me nervous as hell,don't get me wrong, because
that's my art.
You know, every gig I do,whether it's my own production
that I'm producing for thepublic to experience, or I'm
(41:19):
hired to do an event for myclient I always, in the back of
my head, I go is this stupid?
Are they going to love this?
Are they just blowing smoke upmy ass saying this is a good
idea?
You know what I mean?
Because they feel bad for meand I'm like no, I don't want
anyone to feel bad for me.
This is awesome, it's okay.
Like this does taste great,this does look good, this is
cool.
Get over yourself, nicole.
(41:39):
What's next?
You know and that's anotherpart of when I do events now too
, like I never look back at mywork.
I hate.
I hate looking at my past work.
I have to move on to the nextthing.
I'm one of those people like Idon't want to hear my voice.
I don't want to.
I don't want to see my work.
I'm the biggest critic, youknow, and it's hard for me when
people are like, oh, show mewhat you've done, and I'm like,
oh, why do you want to see it?
(41:59):
I want to move on to the nextthing.
Come on with me.
We don't need to look in thepast, let's move forward.
Mary (42:05):
Well, this has gone in a lot of directions that I didn't
anticipate, which is so awesome.
I love when that happens.
So it's been so cool to talk toyou and, of course, I set the
stage that we're going to talkabout boundaries, which we did,
but we also talked about askquestions, take up your space
and find your joy, and I justthose themes really light me up.
(42:28):
So it has been just a delightto talk to you and get to know
you more today, so thank you somuch for being here.
Nicole (42:35):
Yeah, thank you Mary.
Thank you for having me, thankyou for even wanting to hear my
stories and my ridiculousness.
I appreciate it very much.
I hope it inspires someone outthere to know that even though,
if you started small and beingput down, that hurt doesn't go
away for sure, those memoriesdon't go away.
(42:56):
But I will say just keepfollowing your intuition and
keep pushing through andeventually you'll turn around
and realize what a hell of alife you've built for yourself
and it was worth it the wholeway.
Mary (43:12):
That's a beautiful bow to put on this.
So thank you again, and one ofthe most important reasons that
I do this is because of thesestories, and it's developed into
this wonderfully supportivecommunity of women and men that
support women taking up theirspace in the world and living a
life of fulfillment.
I love to hear from mylisteners, so please comment,
(43:35):
follow or text me directly usingthe link in the show notes.
Let me know what you thought ofthis episode or tell me what
you'd love to hear about.
There's no mental health orwellness topic that is off
limits.
You can also visit my websiteat maryrothwellnet, which is
linked in the show notes, andsee all the impactful options I
have to help people find healthand wellness and to see all my
(43:58):
podcast episodes in one place.
And, as always, thanks forlistening and until next time,
go out into the world and be theamazing, resilient, vibrant
Violet that you are.
Thank you.
Welcome to No Shrinking Violence.
I'm your host, Mary Rothwell,licensed therapist and certified
integrative mental healthpractitioner.
I've created a space where wecelebrate the intuition and
power of women who want to breakfree from limiting narratives.
We'll explore all realms ofwellness, what it means to take
up space unapologetically, andhow your essential nature is key
(00:28):
to living life on your terms.
It's time to own your space,trust your nature and flourish.
Let's dive in.
Hi and welcome to the show.
Often, my guests are women thatI know personally and that have
compelling stories that inspireme to want to share these women
with you.
(00:48):
As is often a topic here, womenhave unique pressures to live a
certain type of way, to settledown, have kids, and way too
often, subliminal scriptssometimes cultural, sometimes
gender-based set women up ascompetitors while at the same
time putting pressure on them tosmile and be nice.
(01:09):
My guest today seems to havestepped out of that lane with
those society-informedguardrails, and she lives based
on what makes her feel morefulfilled.
However, as with most of us,she had to find a way to tell
her own unique story, and thatusually means making hard
choices and learning toughlessons.
(01:30):
So, of course, I wanted toshare some of her unique story
with you.
Her name is Nicole Wahby and Imet her through an improv class.
Yeah, it's a thing I starteddoing with my husband in January
.
Not something on my bucket list, but I signed us up together as
a surprise for him and, wow,what an unexpectedly
(01:51):
mind-opening experience.
Anyway, from the first class, Irecognized Nicole's energy a
very positive aspect of a fellowimprover.
The interesting thing aboutimprov at least in our level one
class is that the only thingyou really know about your
classmates is their first name.
It makes everyone feel likewe're starting from the same
(02:12):
point.
We're just trying to learn tocreate interesting and funny
scenes and support each other onstage.
As we moved through the classand had moments to talk more
personally, I recognized thatNicole has had some unique
family relationships and careersituations that have shaped her.
That's really the essence of us.
We are shaped by nature and ourenvironments and really we all
(02:36):
have unique stories.
Although the themes of her lifecould yield so many cool and
interesting discussions, todaywe're going to talk about her
experiences with settingboundaries in all areas of her
life, with family, other women,men and just generally taking up
her space in life in a way thatallows her to feel fulfilled
(02:57):
and empowered.
Welcome to no Shrinking Violets, nicole.
Nicole (03:02):
Thank you, Mary.
Thank you so much for having metoday.
I'm very excited to be here.
I hope I don't cry withexcitement and joy but I don't
know, until I get so excitedthat I just burst into tears.
Mary (03:15):
Okay, well, crying is totally acceptable, and I'm
really excited to talk to youbecause we're certainly going to
, I think, touch on things thatwe have not even discussed
personally when we're hangingout in improv class.
So, first of all, the thingthat I find so fascinating one
as well as I think other peoplein your family have pretty
(03:47):
traditional ideas about women,marriage and kids.
Nicole (03:50):
right, oh, yes, yeah, we , it was really cute.
We I had to take your father towork day a few weeks ago to get
him out and, you know, intolife.
And now that he's retired andwe had a great conversation in
the car where he goes, babe, youknow, I thought we were having
(04:13):
a good day, but he just blurtsout, babe, I, I just need to see
you married with with children.
And I said, excuse me, we'vehad this conversation and he
goes yeah, but you're not goingto be happy and I'm not going to
be happy until I see youmarried with children.
And I said, dad, I'm surroundedby children.
What do you mean?
(04:33):
Like our family's so big, he'sone of nine, my mother's one of
nine, I think there are like allbut 70 cousins between us with
just as many children.
I have friends that have mademe a godmother of eight children
, my brothers have kids, and sofor my father to still be on me
(04:54):
at this age in life, like, oh, Ineed to see you married with
children.
And I looked at him and I said,dad, but you don't think I have
kids in my life already?
He's like, yeah, but you don't.
You know he goes, there areother people who need their own.
And I said, well, are you happy,you know, with, with your
marriage and life?
And he goes, that doesn'tmatter.
And I thought, well, it does tome and I that's more important
(05:16):
to me, and I'm happy where Istand now with the kids I do
have in my life.
And I just couldn't.
I thought it was even funnierwhen, as we were driving in the
car having this conversation,and he's telling me you know,
happiness doesn't matter inmarriage as long as you get a
kid out of it.
And then we go to my brother'shouse and we're sitting there in
(05:40):
his living room and there's twoguys about my age that walk up
to the door, ring the doorbell.
My father looks at me and Ilook at my brother and my
brother gets up to answer thedoor and I look at my father and
say, what about one of thoseguys?
Any one of them will do right.
Well, of course.
Mary (05:57):
I've never met your dad, but he sounds like quite a piece
of work and so you know you.
You sort of had shared with methat his little quote about you
know happiness not mattering,and you really strike me as
someone who kind of grabs joy.
And you know, for a little peekbehind the curtain, you're
actually taking two level, twoimprov, so I get to have class
(06:20):
with you again, but you'redoubling your effort, which is
so cool.
So you had shared something kindof about your career path and
so I'm going to jump to thatright now because I think that's
really interesting, because Ithink that so you have your own
business and you can talk aboutthat in a minute.
But I love how the path thatyou took to get there, and I
(06:44):
think one of the things that ishard for a lot of people and
this is men and women is when wethink about career focusing
more on feeling fulfilled thanthis need to make a certain
amount of money.
There's a lot of social scriptstuff around.
You have to make money to besuccessful.
So talk a little about whatyour path was to where you are
(07:05):
today.
Nicole (07:06):
Yeah, I never knew.
Growing up as a child, I reallythought I was going to be a
teacher or a veterinarian,because I loved just the idea of
a classroom, people comingtogether and teaching them
something.
I love the idea of taking careof animals and I thought that's
what it's going to do.
And then, as life grew and wenton, I and mostly growing up in
(07:31):
a primarily miserable familywhat opened my eyes was when I
was like 16 and I went to a clubunder age, was when I was like
16 and I went to a club underage and it was this little rave
and I, just I filled up with joyand my life purpose was clear
(07:52):
that I was meant to party and bea part of, you know, an event
celebrating life.
And again, growing up withprimarily miserable people, I
got a taste of like utter joyand my mission was clear that I
need to work hard to bringpeople together to celebrate and
(08:13):
dance.
And from there I was 17.
I produced my first music eventby 19,.
I produced, like I think, twoor three more.
And then I went to college and,uh, and I was always working
like as a server.
I worked for my aunt's cleaningbusiness.
I was always.
I was always operating as apersonal assistant, also to the
(08:37):
people that I would just doeverything for them and organize
their home and walk their dog.
I'd help at their dinnerparties.
I was just always hustling andworking, working.
But the goal was always so Icould produce an event to invite
people out to celebrate, torelieve themselves of the
mundane lives that they lived,and they could be happy.
(08:57):
And that's really how my careerstarted was I was striving to
bring people together bycreating an experience to bring
them joy.
And by the time I was in collegeand getting out of college, I
started combining my love of artand music and created this show
called Art in the Dark and bythen I could invite my family
(09:20):
with their kids, my clients andtheir kids so it was an all age
show and have this immersive artand music experience.
And people really lit up over itand they're like, wow, if you
could do that, what other eventscan you do?
And that's when I it was like2015 where I started NSW events
(09:41):
and I was like, yeah, I am anevent planner, that's what I
love to do, that's my job,because up until then, I just
was just grinding to producethese events and then knowing
that I could actually hold thattitle and learn that that job
exists and you can get paid forit, then, yeah, the money came
after it and you learn a lot oflessons along the way how to
(10:03):
charge properly and what to do,what not to do.
You know setting boundariesalong the way, but that's
ultimately how my career startedand is the path that it's
continuing in.
Mary (10:15):
You know, that's so inspiring because you make it so
clear that you had anexperience.
You felt that, and I callthings your essential nature,
Like it obviously connected withyour essential nature of loving
the idea of people comingtogether, people being happy.
(10:37):
You know, I have this image ofyou at 16, like dancing at a
rave.
I can easily see that, believeit or not, Nicole.
So I love that image that comesto mind.
But I think one of the thingsthat's beautiful about that is
you didn't deny it, Like youidentified it.
(10:57):
You continue to build more ofit into your life in various
ways and your path started tobecome clear, which that's where
I think people maybe back off,Like they feel like well, this
feels so good, it can't be whatI'm supposed to do.
But I'm also wondering like didyou?
Were there people along the way?
(11:19):
Because I think you majored inart in college.
Nicole (11:22):
Yeah, I took liberal, I majored in liberal arts, visual
arts, and then I subbed inbiology and, quite honestly, I
hated getting graded for myartwork and every you know.
You take these classes atdifferent levels and they give
you parameters that you have toproduce your final show and I
was always good at workingaround those parameters to
(11:44):
elevate my final projects, whichthen encouraged the other
students and it's just, it'sjust looking back, you know
where I am now?
Then it's, I am a show builder,yeah, and that's, and it's just
one of those things I was likeoh yeah, I did go to college for
this, but college didn't teachme what I know today.
Mary (12:08):
Yeah, life did Right and I think following following that.
So you mentioned something that, of course, with my career in
mental health, you know itperked my ears up.
You talked about coming from afamily that you felt was like
pretty much not happy, not a lotof joy.
How do you think you were ableto step out of that?
Nicole (12:30):
Oh my heaven, I just inherently woke up happy every
day and couldn't understand whythey would fight and be
miserable.
And I just noticed that theydidn't know how to receive love
or give love.
They didn't know how to receivelove or give love.
How I stepped out of it wasjust not embracing their
mannerisms and being true tomyself.
And I will say, the pandemic,uh, specifically really shone
(12:56):
the light on me, having to notonly step aside but just step
away from them, um, causethey're just miserable people.
I was like, no matter how muchjoy you know, I fought for years
, for for decades, trying tobring this family up to my level
(13:16):
of joy and I just I realized atsome point that they were never
gonna match my excitement, theywere never gonna appreciate the
ideas I wanted to share withthem.
Um, if I said, hey, I want togo to this concert, do you want
to join me?
It was always like, oh, why,that's dumb music.
But if they had an idea to goto a concert, well then it was
(13:40):
the best damn thing andeverybody could go.
Okay, I remember organizing anannual event when my uncle
passed away.
I was like, well, I want tobring us together.
I always wanted to bring ustogether and I always thought
that by lead by example, they'llcome around.
And I remember I did this eventevery year and everyone was
(14:03):
invited and it's such a bigfamily that I had to rent a
school bus to fit all 40 of usand I paid for it 100%.
That was my.
I said it was the birthday,christmas gift, everything,
because we're too big andobnoxious to buy gifts for every
occasion for each other.
And so we were sitting there atthe table one day and I
remember my one cousin goes.
(14:25):
You know, I would just love ifwe could all do something
together in the same context ofus talking about my snow tubing
trip, and I just looked and Isaid, really Well, that's what
this trip's about.
And he's like, yeah, but I meansomething, something else.
And I was like can't you justacknowledge that this is cool
and I am doing something tobring us together, because no
one else has taken initiative?
(14:46):
And it was again just like atthat time.
It was another kind of a milemarker of I should really step
away from these people.
They're not.
They're not matching my energy,they're not appreciating what
I'm doing.
And it was just, you know,after like the third strike, so
to speak, when the pandemic camearound.
(15:07):
I was like I just got to guardmyself and I've got to step away
and I'm not going to make theimpression on them that I've
been striving for all theseyears.
And when I realized that mylife just opened up tremendously
.
Mary (15:23):
Yeah, I think it's funny that sometimes, when we talk
about boundaries, I think peopletend to hear that word as
something that's limiting, butwhat it does is, I think it you
talked about matching yourenergy.
I think it puts the thingsaside that pull you down, that
really do close up your life,and it allows you to find
(15:46):
empowerment and it opens you upto doing what you really think
makes you happy Totally totally.
Nicole (15:53):
I mean I met you in improv class because I find I'm
a bit of a comic.
Mary (15:58):
She's very good at it, people, by the way.
Nicole (16:02):
Well, thank you.
And it's like that banter, thatrelease that I have in improv,
that's where I'm like, I feellike my natural self.
Anything goes I can say, youknow, I can interrupt people to
get a laugh, you know, but I'mnot interrupting to be offensive
.
And you know, it's like I couldnever have that banter with the
(16:23):
people I grew up with and Icould never celebrate my life,
my accomplishments, what I wasdoing with them, because my
banter was just offensive tothem.
Like anything I said, anythingI do, and I was like man.
Like anything I said, anythingI do, and I was like man.
You know, I just I don't feellike I could be myself, you know
.
And again, circling back tojoining improv and everything,
(16:44):
I'm like, yeah, this is who I am, this is who I'm supposed to be
, this is what I'm supposed tobe doing, and it just constantly
confirms how important it is torelease people that aren't
serving you in life even if theyare related to you, you don't
have to hang on to them.
Mary (17:02):
Yeah, you just said what I was going to say, that we have
this again.
It's a societal idea that yourfamily are always the people
that have your back and it'sreally hard to, you know, have
that time of reckoning where youit sounds like you tried, you
tried and finally you were likeyou know what, it doesn't matter
(17:23):
what I do, they're not going tobe.
In a sense, they're ended up notreally being your tribe, you
know, in the sense of buildingyou up.
So, to take a little side pathhere and it's something that you
and I talked about a little bitI know in my life that the
(17:44):
women that I have as friends aresome of my biggest supports and
some of them I met throughdifferent jobs.
However, I think you and I haveboth had some experiences where
we walk into a professionalspace with other women and we
assume that it's going to kindof be that same thing we expect
(18:05):
from family, that we're all inthe same place to grow, to
support each other.
But you don't always have apositive experience, right?
Sometimes that weird womencompetition comes up right and
it feels like what am I supposedto do with this?
Nicole (18:20):
Yes, totally.
So.
You know, man, I recentlyjoined some networking groups
and, yeah, just meeting womeneven before the networking group
, just getting interviews withpeople that you know might want
to hire me, and whatnot.
It's really bizarre because,yeah, I bring this like, yes,
I'm happy, let's celebrate.
Wait, you want to celebrate?
(18:40):
Let's, let's get together andbuild, you know, a party, build
an event.
And I get excited and to me I'mlike that's in where, yeah,
they're matching, they're goingto be matching.
I assume they're going to matchmy energy, I assume they're
going to easily fit in and be apart of my tribe.
And for some reason, the primaryquestion is so, Nicole, nice to
(19:03):
meet you, why did you want totalk to me today?
And I thought, oh my God, I'msorry, you sent me an email to
talk to me.
Did I miss something?
And they're like well, yeah, Iwas just wondering do you have a
family?
Are you married?
I thought, wait a second, Arethey trying to date me or work
with me?
Where are these questionscoming from?
(19:25):
You know, I thought we werehere to talk about building an
event or working together, andit's.
I'm just learning that in familyyou've got to watch your back
because you learn you knowpeople that you think are going
to be there to support youaren't.
And once you accept that, it'sa relief.
You know, in the dating world,once you accept that a man's not
there to support you, you knowhe just wants one thing out of
(19:47):
you.
You're like, OK, I recognizethe red flags and I know how to
carry on from it.
But now, with women in theworkforce experiencing this
whole new state of misguidedsupport, it's like a bait and
switch is what I feel I'mgetting with them.
You know, like they're curiousabout me and they say they want
(20:09):
to support me, but it's reallyjust to soothe their own
curiosities, the questions thatthey're asking me.
It's not at all starting offabout my work, my work ethic,
you know my goals or myabilities, and it's just utterly
surprising and I feel I've putmy walls up a little bit in that
sense, because I'm like where'sthis coming from?
I'm not that way, you know.
(20:29):
If you tell me, oh, I, you knowI'm Mary, I'm a psychologist
and this is what I do, I'd belike, great, that's awesome.
When did you decide that Iwould never start a conversation
with anyone, male or female, oftheir personal life, their
personal relationship status,children, not having children
and it's really bizarre to mebecause, again, what these
people don't know is the amountof kids I do have in my life
(20:53):
that.
I do love and support and takecare of and watch and travel
with, and it just makes me wantto respond, but in a defensive
fashion and I don't feel that'sactually has anything to do with
business.
And it's bizarre to me, you know, and I think, okay, how do I
turn it around?
And again, in improv, we'retaught to yes and Right, but
(21:14):
when I'm approached with thesequestions in the work
environment, it's hard for me toyes, and because I think, well,
are they going to receive myjoke if I give it back to them?
And how do I pivot from this?
What I really want to say iswell, I'm just here to take your
husband's ladies watch out.
Mary (21:36):
Well, you know, you have, you have a big energy and you
know, I think in improv I thinkit can be intimidating initially
when you're in level one andeverybody's trying to find their
footing.
But, as I said in my intro,when you have someone, with the
energy you have and for those ofyou who don't really know
(21:57):
improv you establish a scene andyou do that by building on what
whoever initiated the scenedoes or says, so you're always
supporting.
It's a whole community ofsupport.
But, as I also said in my intro, we didn't know anything about
each other except our firstnames, and that is an experience
you do not often have Because,as you're saying, most people
(22:20):
need to figure out where someonebelongs and unfortunately in
our society we do that with areyou married, do you have kids?
What job do you have?
We didn't fall into thatbecause we couldn't, we just had
to meet people on stage.
So it's interesting because Ithink you come into a space with
that energy and people aren'tused to that and I think it can
(22:45):
be maybe intimidating, or otherwomen might be like why is she
so happy?
Like what's really going onhere?
And it's unfortunate that wealso have sort of a script where
we well, I'm not going to saywe, many of us feel a sense of
envy or like, oh, wow, likethere must be more to this than
(23:09):
what I'm seeing.
And you know, and we sense thatright, I think we can,
sometimes before women even talk.
You know, I said to somebodyone day it was a guy I said you
know, when women go into socialspaces, we dress for other women
, you know.
And he's like what do you mean?
I said well, do you notice thatoften women will look at other
(23:30):
women more critically than in adifferent way than men might
look at a woman?
Nicole (23:36):
Do you know what I mean?
You know, I've heard thatsaying Mary for years.
But I can't tell you.
I can relate because I don'tdress for anyone but myself.
I've never dressed for otherwomen.
I see how that holds weight.
But there again, that's where,like, my curiosities end.
I mean, maybe I can't explainit, but I see it.
(23:56):
I've heard that I hear otherwomen be like, oh my God for
sure, I want my girlfriends tocompliment me, you know.
I want them to ask where I gotthis and have them feel a little
envious that they can't havethis because I had it made or
something like that.
And I'm like, oh my God, Itruly only have ever dressed for
my comfort and how I want topresent myself in that moment.
Or you know what I'm doing inlife that day, you know.
(24:19):
So, for instance, like thecomedy classes, I'm coming fresh
out of work so I'm in my black,all black on black uniform, not
dressed to impress at all,because I'm just living behind
the scenes setting stuff upprior to, you know, arriving the
class.
But yeah to, you're saying Iwish I could understand that
(24:40):
thing more, quite honestly,because I don't dress for other
women and I don't know that anyone woman has dressed for me,
but I do love looking at fashion.
I love complimenting peoplewhen they look good, of
complimenting people when theylook good, but I've never put
someone down if I felt theirattire was off for the occasion.
Mary (25:02):
Well, and I think your response there is one of the
things that sums up who you are,because you somehow were able
to sidestep that socializationand a lot of us have been sort
of molded or, you know, kind offormed socially to look at other
(25:23):
women, to know if we're okay.
And that's where one of themany ways I think that you are
unique, because you really seemto sidestep that, so you show up
in a space with so muchauthenticity, and I think that
is part of what I'm picking uphere is that I think when you
can show up in that authenticway, people that don't have that
(25:48):
sense of self or maybe sense ofself-confidence, that can feel
a little bit intimidating, Iguess.
Nicole (25:54):
So but I've never wanted to have anyone feel intimidated
by me.
If anything, I've alwaysstrived to have people feel
comfortable around me.
I always say I want to be theperson that I get back in this
life and, if I can, I'll giveyou a fun little memory.
You know, as I pass by, or youknow whether the interactions
(26:15):
brief or or long it's.
I just want it to be a goodmemory of something like oh,
that was fun.
You know, I remember you fromthis and I actually get that a
lot lately Like I remember youfrom you know you and your dog
walking down the street withpink and it's like there's so
many little things that happenand, yeah, I hope to not
(26:37):
intimidate anyone actually, soit's wild to think that others
would be intimidated by me, bymy presence.
Mary (26:45):
Well, and I think that might be why, when you walk into
some of these and I don't Idon't want to certainly
stereotype all women, this isnot all women women because,
like I said, some of my mostbeautiful friendships have come
from the workplace and these arewomen that I think share this
sense of wanting to actuallybuild other women and men,
(27:05):
anyone build them up, and sowhen you go into a space and you
go in with your sort of thefoundation that you have of I
want to take any situation andkind of you know make it shiny
and you know, make it the bestit can be, it can really be
confusing when you start tointeract with people who kind of
(27:28):
a little bit like you said,your family, that they're going
to look for the things thataren't shiny or the things that
are routine or even negative,and it can be like what?
Like that's what is going on,like I don't know.
Nicole (27:41):
Yes, I have to.
I have to interrupt you thereand say I do realize that
leading with positivity is notrelatable, is not relatable and
most people lead with pity me,feel bad for me, relate to my
sob story and then help meBecause, no matter what, we're
(28:08):
all helpers right.
We all want to help in somefashion or another and yeah, I
have definitely realized.
It seems you can get more attimes, depending on your
audience, if you lead with pityand a.
Woe is me personality versus a.
I'm just happy to be here,let's do everything together.
Mary (28:27):
Yeah, and you know I feel like you're a realist.
You know I never felt like youcome in, like you know, with
guns blazing, like toxicpositivity.
I think you're just a realist.
Nicole (28:38):
You know, it's your energy, I think.
Mary (28:40):
It's not like you come in talking all the time or, you
know, like preaching peace andlove.
Yeah, you have a sense aboutyou that is, you know, positive
and uplifting.
Okay, so you mentionedsomething I got to circle back
on.
You mentioned the world ofdating.
Okay, so you mentionedsomething I got to circle back
on.
You mentioned the world ofdating and I'm going to tell you
personally as, having, you know, done a lot of dating before I
(29:02):
got married, I think sometimes,when you can go in with a lot of
, I'm going to again say shinepositive energy.
I think sometimes you learn andI'll own this I learned that I
need to tone it down a littlebit because sometimes men
misinterpret that.
What has been your experience?
Nicole (29:24):
Oh yeah, yeah, they think I'm down for anything.
I'm just this fun, bubblyperson and I'm like, because I'm
just this fun, bubbly personand I'm like I'm not down, I'm
up for most things.
However, I will say, when itcomes to dating, I lead with a
lot of questions, but I am funand spontaneous and I realize I
(29:49):
typically I'm leading the dateand it's only fun because of me.
And so what I've learned in thedating world is to see if a man
is confident enough to lead andwhat is his humor and
personality like, yeah, men,again, men want to be fixers and
they want to.
They want to find like a happybut also like quasi broken woman
(30:12):
that they can fix, and that'show they find their place in
their life you know, in thatwoman's life and I'm not saying
I don't have problems, but butI'm, I've been really good about
having solutions to my problemsand not making my problems
other people's issues.
You know, I certainly ask forhelp when I need it.
I'm not shy about that,especially if I know what you do
(30:34):
and I'm like, oh, I need helpin that field.
Right now I'm going to callthat person up and cause I trust
them and uh, but dating is justjust a freaking whirlwind and
it's ridiculous and it's anothergame that you have to play.
That's not always fun and likeit's hard to have your guard up.
But also be myself, you know,as I mean, I'm also you're
(30:57):
talking to me now at the statewhere I'm just so over dating.
I remember when I first joined adating site and even my friends
were like you are way too goodfor that.
I'm like I know I've never.
You know even let's circle backto my dad when he's like I need
you to find someone, babe, andI said why do I have to find
(31:19):
someone?
Can't they find me?
And I, I've never been a hunter, I've never been a woman who
like goes out and was like I'mgoing to find a boyfriend today.
You know they, the men, truly I,the guys I end up dating.
I we've stumbled, you know,across each other's paths and
they were persistent enough.
They're intelligent, they had asense of humor and I said, ok,
(31:42):
but it didn't work out and Iaccept that and no matter what,
I've always kind of been a loneranyway, I like my freedom in
that sense.
I like that I can float aroundand hang out with my 80 year old
friends or an eight month oldAll in the same weekend and have
a frickin blast doing itwithout having to explain myself
(32:05):
to anyone.
And you know that my yeah, myfriends and family age range is
so vast.
I have a great community inthat sense and to bring in
anyone, it's hard for a man tounderstand that.
It's hard for a man tounderstand how reasonable and
emotionally stable I am as awoman dating.
(32:26):
And yeah, it's just, it's wild.
I'm kind of definitely over itright now.
Mary (32:32):
You value freedom.
Nicole (32:33):
Yeah, yeah, I totally value my freedom and it's you
know.
Yeah, you go into a date,you're positive, and guys are
like, oh great, you want toreally have fun.
So I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa,pump the brakes.
So, yeah, I'm kind of overthose same redundant
conversations and actions that Ihave to go through to defend
(32:54):
and protect myself and my peace.
But I'm like I'm just here tohave fun and live my life period
.
Mary (32:59):
I know there are men that can meet that independent energy
and allow it to exist, becauseI'm married to one.
But it is difficult because,you know, we talk or I talk so
much about social scripts andall of this stuff and men have
them too.
And, as you said, you used theword fixer.
(33:19):
So I think you know, we, someof us, still think that we have
these traditional roles, but Ithink when you come from a place
of having created so much inyour life and when you create
your own business, wow, you haveto learn so much to do that.
And so, yeah, I think it can be, as we said, intimidating for
(33:40):
women and men, because there'sthat comparison and sometimes
and this is only certain men canhave that feeling well, what
does she need from me?
Precisely, Precisely.
And you don't need anything,right, you just want a partner.
Nicole (33:57):
my narrative as a teenager watching my friends and
cousins date terribly, you knowlike just just pick all the
wrong people.
I mean, I just always said likeI don't want a temporary
boyfriend, and that's definitelya temporary situation.
I want a partner in life.
I've always said that at ayoung age and that's still.
(34:18):
What I want now is someonewho's a partner, who's a
supporter, who adds to my life,and I think I'm I'm really lucky
and I have a lot that it's hardto add.
You know it's weird and it'swild, but I definitely, yes, I
want and desire someone who's inaddition to my life, not
(34:41):
someone who like, oh, I couldn'tlive without them.
That is such a wild thought tome to be like you couldn't live
without that person.
I mean even my very bestfriends.
I can't imagine a day withoutthem, but God forbid, if
something happened I could stilllive.
I also think it's really funnyhow, on social media, how
there's women who you know everycouple months and years they
(35:04):
found their soulmate once againand it just doesn't have to be
that traumatic.
Mary (35:09):
Well, it occurs to me to ask you, because you come across
with so much self-confidenceand even saying you've known or
sensed a lot of things from ayoung age, which I will say I
think all of us do, but we alongthe way, maybe doubted, like
well, this is what I really wantto do, but I don't know if it's
okay.
Did you have those doubts, thatimposter syndrome or like maybe
(35:32):
a limiting narrative?
Did any of that come into playfor you along the way?
Oh, yes, Always, always.
Nicole (35:39):
Because growing up, you know, it was the quintessential
beast scene, not heard.
My creativity was not welcome,my humor was not welcome, and so
, as I would try and express ithere and there, you know I was
always nervous if the crowdwould receive it or not.
And that's when I againrealized that, well, if I just
(36:01):
produced it myself, I don't haveto go to a company and say
trust my process, and that I canbuild a cool event.
I just worked doing jobs Ididn't love so I could afford to
produce what I wanted to sharewith the world.
But even then, you know, I didthese events, and I mean still
to this day, I have impostersyndrome because I'm like I
can't believe I did all this.
(36:22):
And then people still ask who Iam.
I'm like you're right.
Mary (36:25):
Who am I?
I don't know.
Nicole (36:26):
No, I don't know.
I just I enjoy bringing peopletogether and that's it, you know
.
And then, with technology todayand knowing I'm not the best at
computer work, but I can reallybuild you a space that's
beautiful and entertaining.
Computer work, but I can reallybuild you a space that's
beautiful and entertaining, yeah, I have a lot of imposter
(36:49):
syndrome, especially startingfrom a young age, where I knew I
had a gift, I couldn't share itand I had to somehow break
through to people to listen tome and hear me and see me, to
let me in, you know, to hire me,you know to just hire me and
trust me.
And that's really hard.
(37:10):
I mean, I don't know that youcan teach that.
I don't know how many books youhave to read to figure that out
, but, damn it, I figured it outsomehow.
I broke in.
I broke in by doing a lot ofjobs.
I didn't like to get in frontof the people that I wanted to
be in front of, to get theopportunities that I needed and
wanted to provide a life formyself.
Mary (37:31):
Well, you definitely have really embodied one of the main
things that I talk about all thetime, and that's taking up your
space, and I think you know I'mthinking now that all these
themes that we're talking abouthave to resonate, because
there's not anyone who had,first of all, a linear path to
(37:52):
success.
There's not anyone that didn'thave failures along the way.
And you know these times wherethey look at something and
they're like, oh my gosh, likehow did I do that?
Or can I do that.
And you know, I think yourmessage of you do it anyway, and
that's you're right.
There are many books on it, butyou have to do something.
(38:15):
By doing it and being willingto take the chance, and you just
really have the ability toconnect with the essence of who
you are as a person and put thatin the world.
Nicole (38:28):
Well, thank you, yeah.
And that truly started at ayoung age again, going back to
my childhood, where you know myparental figures would just say
no for everything.
And I would sit as a child andwonder at every angle why would
they say no, is it dangerous?
No, am I really going to getlost?
No, am I going to get taken?
(38:48):
No, how much is it going tocost?
Not that much.
I would just sit and brew andfor every angle I just always
looked at the big picture andcouldn't understand why the no.
But yet I was persistent and Iwould ask.
And at a young age I wouldalways ask.
And then I'd ask why?
And you don't ask your parentalfigures, why?
(39:10):
Because they said so.
But I always had that same justask.
Who cares?
Just ask.
And that's that's how I got in.
You know, to so many spacesthat I got into was because I
just asked.
I put myself in front of thefield like oh, you're the owner,
so can I do this here?
Most people might have feardoing that and I thought I never
(39:33):
had the fear to ask to be letin, even when I was going to
nightclubs at a young ageillegally, like I didn't care.
I asked like can you let me in?
I know the bouncer, I know theDJ and I guess you know my
maturity level was great and myconfidence was there.
They're like, yeah, go, goright on ahead.
I was like, yep, that's myfriend over there.
(39:54):
And then, like even events thatI did, I just pranced in the
space and I was like who ownsthis joint?
I want to have an event here.
I've got this wild idea and Ijust had to ask.
I never stopped asking, eventoday, like I remember my
brother used to fight me growingup and be like Nick, you're
going to get us in trouble, stopasking.
And I was like no, they're notproviding a reasonable reason
(40:16):
for us, they're not providing areasonable explanation to say no
, like they're just beingmiserable and mean for no reason
.
I can't accept that.
And then that carried over intowork life where it's like, and
you know, owners of buildings,they want you to bring crowds
into their space.
Of course they're going to sayyes.
And then I follow through andyou know the amount of people
(40:38):
I've had come to me like I didnot think you're going to pull
that off.
You know, as a 20 year old,something you know, new person
in the area versus a man in hisyou know, puts in 60, who's done
like all the major events inHarrisburg for so long.
And he was like I did not thinkyou, this little punk kid, was
going to show up and really showout and here you did, and I was
(40:58):
like well, yeah, I did what Isaid I was going to do.
You know, to me it's as simpleas that.
I said I was going to do what Isaid I was going to do and it
turned out.
It makes me nervous as hell,don't get me wrong, because
that's my art.
You know, every gig I do,whether it's my own production
that I'm producing for thepublic to experience, or I'm
(41:19):
hired to do an event for myclient I always, in the back of
my head, I go is this stupid?
Are they going to love this?
Are they just blowing smoke upmy ass saying this is a good
idea?
You know what I mean?
Because they feel bad for meand I'm like no, I don't want
anyone to feel bad for me.
This is awesome, it's okay.
Like this does taste great,this does look good, this is
cool.
Get over yourself, nicole.
(41:39):
What's next?
You know and that's anotherpart of when I do events now too
, like I never look back at mywork.
I hate.
I hate looking at my past work.
I have to move on to the nextthing.
I'm one of those people like Idon't want to hear my voice.
I don't want to.
I don't want to see my work.
I'm the biggest critic, youknow, and it's hard for me when
people are like, oh, show mewhat you've done, and I'm like,
oh, why do you want to see it?
(41:59):
I want to move on to the nextthing.
Come on with me.
We don't need to look in thepast, let's move forward.
Mary (42:05):
Well, this has gone in a lot of directions that I didn't
anticipate, which is so awesome.
I love when that happens.
So it's been so cool to talk toyou and, of course, I set the
stage that we're going to talkabout boundaries, which we did,
but we also talked about askquestions, take up your space
and find your joy, and I justthose themes really light me up.
(42:28):
So it has been just a delightto talk to you and get to know
you more today, so thank you somuch for being here.
Nicole (42:35):
Yeah, thank you Mary.
Thank you for having me, thankyou for even wanting to hear my
stories and my ridiculousness.
I appreciate it very much.
I hope it inspires someone outthere to know that even though,
if you started small and beingput down, that hurt doesn't go
away for sure, those memoriesdon't go away.
(42:56):
But I will say just keepfollowing your intuition and
keep pushing through andeventually you'll turn around
and realize what a hell of alife you've built for yourself
and it was worth it the wholeway.
Mary (43:12):
That's a beautiful bow to put on this.
So thank you again, and one ofthe most important reasons that
I do this is because of thesestories, and it's developed into
this wonderfully supportivecommunity of women and men that
support women taking up theirspace in the world and living a
life of fulfillment.
I love to hear from mylisteners, so please comment,
(43:35):
follow or text me directly usingthe link in the show notes.
Let me know what you thought ofthis episode or tell me what
you'd love to hear about.
There's no mental health orwellness topic that is off
limits.
You can also visit my websiteat maryrothwellnet, which is
linked in the show notes, andsee all the impactful options I
have to help people find healthand wellness and to see all my
(43:58):
podcast episodes in one place.
And, as always, thanks forlistening and until next time,
go out into the world and be theamazing, resilient, vibrant
Violet that you are.
Thank you.
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