July 3, 2025 • 47 mins
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Finding love after 50 requires strategy, not luck. Dating industry pioneer Andrea McGinty shares how she transformed her own heartbreak into a matchmaking empire and now helps midlife singles navigate modern dating platforms.
• Founded It's Just Lunch in 1990 with just $3,000 after her fiancé called off their wedding
• Built her matchmaking business to 110 global locations, facilitating over 10,000 marriages
• Recognized the need to help people over 50 navigate online dating after divorce or loss
• Uses data analysis to match clients with the right dating platforms for their location and goals
• Advises on creating authentic profiles with quality photos that showcase personality
• Recommends crafting personalized 2-3 sentence messages showing genuine interest
• Emphasizes the importance of mindset preparation before entering the dating scene
• Suggests treating dating with strategic intentionality through a "business plan" approach
• Published "Second Acts: Winning Strategies for Dating Over 50" with practical worksheets
• Found her own husband online and married in Italy, proving her methods work
Check out my guest's book "Second Acts: Winning Strategies for Dating Over 50" on Amazon or her website at 33000dates.com, where you'll also find a free dating quiz to assess your readiness for relationship success.
Follow me on Facebook and Instagram, and check out my website!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mary (00:05):
Welcome to No Shrinking Violets.
I'm your host, Mary Rothwell,licensed therapist and certified
integrative mental healthpractitioner.
I've created a space where wecelebrate the intuition and
power of women who want to breakfree from limiting narratives.
We'll explore all realms ofwellness what it means to take
up space unapologetically, andhow your essential nature is key
(00:28):
to living life on your terms.
It's time to own your space,trust your nature and flourish.
Let's dive in.
Hey, violets, welcome to theshow.
Before I begin, I wanted to putout a call to any woman that
thinks she has her own story oftaking up space to tell.
(00:49):
My most loved episodes are oneswhere women tell their personal
stories of overcomingchallenges and growing and
expanding into a new emotionalspace.
If you feel like it's time foryou to inspire others with your
story, check out the link in myshow notes for a contact form.
I'd love to help you share yournarrative with the world.
Okay, on to the show.
(01:12):
As someone who didn't marryuntil 37, then got divorced at
47, and remarried about two anda half years ago, I know a bit
about online dating.
I met my first husband throughan ad in the newspaper the Gen X
version of a dating app.
People wrote a short intro, nomore than two sentences, no
(01:33):
pictures.
There was a main phone numberto call.
Then you dialed the extensionfor the ad you liked.
That got you to an audiointroduction from the person
that wrote the ad.
If you were interested, youleft your name and phone number.
If you weren't, you hit nextand entered the number for the
next ad you wanted to hear.
All you had to go on was thetone of voice.
(01:53):
I hit next, quite often afteronly the first few words.
Thinking of that, now I realizehow random it was to choose
someone to date, even just afirst date, based only on what
they could convey in a fewsentences then how their voice
sounded.
But honestly, how simple thatwas compared to today.
Now there are pictures tochoose and a profile to write
(02:16):
and first dates to suggest.
At least on Hinge, where Irecently looked at a profile of
a young person who wanted someinsight, I didn't have any.
That is way too complex for me.
And then there are all the appswhich one might have the type
of potential mate that I'mlooking for.
Do I like the style of matchingor swiping?
(02:37):
In my own dating days, I wasmost bothered by the
dismissiveness of online quotemeeting.
I would not only take time toreference activities or other
details from the profile ofsomeone I was interested in to
craft my hello message, whilemen often simply wrote what's up
or I like your pictures.
But when someone reached out tome, even with one of those
(02:58):
inane sentences, I took the timeto write something back.
I mean, if someone approachedyou in person, would you just
abruptly turn and walk away?
I mean, if someone approachedyou in person, would you just
abruptly turn and walk away?
I mean if they were actuallysincere and not creepy.
But it's much easier for peopleto just ignore messages from
people they aren't interested in.
I learned not to be offendedbut instead framed it as
important information.
(03:19):
If you can't take 30 seconds torespond out of courtesy, what
kind of communicator might yoube in a real relationship?
And even as I'm saying all this, I can feel a bit of the chest
tightening.
That was part of my very earlydays on dating apps.
It was exciting andanxiety-ridden all at once.
Like shopping for a new car allthat shiny potential with no
(03:40):
idea what was under the hood,waiting to go wrong.
For people in midlife,especially those who are
re-entering the dating worldafter long relationships.
Navigating the online world ofmatchmaking can make any woman
wanna stay home, make popcornand just binge watch.
Anything but my guest today canoffer hope.
Andrea McGinty is a true pioneerin the world of dating and
(04:02):
relationships.
As the founder of it's JustLunch and 33000datescom, andrea
has helped millions of singlesnavigate the often tricky waters
of modern dating.
She has over 30 years ofexperience and has helped
facilitate over 10,000 marriages.
She's been featured on Oprah,the Today Show, the New York
Times and more, sharing herinsights into finding love at
(04:26):
every stage of life.
Now Andrea is on a mission toempower singles over 50 with
practical, no-nonsense advicefor building meaningful
connections in their second act.
So whether you're diving backinto the dating pool or just
curious about what's changed,andrea is here today to guide
the way Her influence has shapedthe industry, creating a legacy
(04:47):
that stands out in the world ofmatchmaking.
Andrea's book Second ActsWinning Strategies for Dating
Over 50, is available on herwebsite, amazon and anywhere
else you buy your books, andwe'll talk about that more near
the end.
Welcome to no Shrinking Violets, andrea.
Andrea (05:03):
Oh thanks, mary.
You know that was quite anintro because I was just
laughing when you were talkingabout the personal ads where you
would dial in in the early daysand people don't realize how
good we have it now becausethat's all there was.
I go back to the days of, like,the village voice or the people
(05:28):
that were a little more upscalewould do the like New York book
review, you know, and respondto those personal ads.
So we've got it so good now.
And when I go back to you know1990, when I got involved in
this whole thing and I can tellyou in a minute how I got
involved you know there was noGoogle, there was no online
(05:53):
dating, there was nothing.
So if you are a 50 or 60 yearold woman, you know, good luck,
just good luck, you know.
And it's changed so much forthose people in their second
acts of life and with moredivorce going on in their 50s.
(06:14):
So it's a great change.
Mary (06:17):
For sure.
It's also really, reallyintimidating and I know we're
going to get into this a lotmore, but I know one of the
overwhelming things is how doyou even start to build the
profile and to sort throughprofiles?
But I know we're going to getto that, but could we start with
you sharing your story, becauseI know that you were going to
get married in your twenties andthat didn't happen.
(06:38):
Can you share a little aboutthat story?
And then, how did thatexperience shape you, and I mean
even where things are today?
Andrea (06:46):
Oh, it shaped my entire life and, of course, at the
moment that it happened I didn'trealize the impact it was going
to have.
So I was in my early twenties,I was engaged, I was getting
married and two days before thewedding he called it off.
So, living in Chicago, I waslike, oh my gosh, I had like
(07:08):
this life planned out.
And you know, after I got overyou know the crying and the poor
me I started.
You know my friends would fixme up on dates and, yeah, I'm
pretty tall, I'm like five foot10.
And some of these dates myfriends would fix me up on, you
(07:29):
know, they were like five footfive and nothing against five
foot five men.
But I felt like an elephant, Ifelt like a giraffe, you know, I
just felt like so big and uhand plus.
You know, in those days peoplewere doing like dinner dates and
you knew in the first, like 15or 20 minutes, whether there was
chemistry.
But you know, in those dayspeople were doing like dinner
dates and you knew in the first,like 15 or 20 minutes, whether
there was chemistry.
But you know, oh, I'm going tobe sitting here for another two
(07:51):
hours to be polite.
And so, um, what happened?
You know, it's kind of like oneof those things where you know
a door closes and you know awindow opens, and so one day
again, you know I'm like 23 andI get a phone call from an
executive recruiter and you know, calling about some
(08:13):
professional opportunities.
I was an accounting and financemajor and which I never used,
by the way, as we will soon findout and you know she was
calling me about you know thesejobs or you know career
opportunities, and I was likegeez, as I'm listening to her
talk, I'm thinking why isn't shecalling me about?
(08:35):
Like two men I'd be reallyinterested in?
You know that she's picked outfor me.
So I got this idea that wouldn'tit be great if there was a
service that just did somethingwhere you met over lunch or you
met over you know a drink afterwork, and hence that's how it's
(08:57):
just lunch was born.
I thought, oh, this is a greatidea.
Again.
I thought, oh, this is a greatidea Again.
No, online dating, there isnothing, nothing out there.
And so I started it's JustLunch, with nothing.
I had $3,000.
(09:17):
That's it, that's it.
And it paid for a little tinyoffice space and 20,000 black
and white brochures that I stillhave a few that I laugh about
now.
So I have all these brochuresthat I'm like, oh, I don't have
any money to mail them.
What am I going to do with allthese things?
So this one night I talked acouple of my girlfriends in into
(09:38):
it was a Saturday night, youknow, early Sunday morning, it's
probably like two or 3 am intowalking through some
neighborhoods in Chicago thatwere very like yuppie oriented,
like Lincoln Park and the GoldCoast, et cetera, and we were
going to put them under people'syou know doorsteps of their
brownstones and stuff.
(09:59):
But then I saw the ChicagoTribune guy and he was
delivering the big fat, you knowSunday Chicago Tribune in a
really nice bag to each house.
And I thought, oh, let's justfollow this guy around with the
brochure inside because it'llmake us look like we have
(10:20):
credibility and we have moneyand that we can advertise in the
Chicago Tribune.
And anyway, my first call, youknow, I ran back to the office.
I remember I got a bagel.
I'm sitting at the office atlike 7 am I'm like, oh, the
phone is going to ring off thehook.
Chicago's going to go wild overthis idea.
And you know, of course.
(10:44):
Course.
I'd written a business plan,you know, for for my whole idea,
and one of the first people tocall me was a woman who is a PR
person.
Again 1990, people weren'treally up on what PR was Right.
So she said, hey, you trade mesome dates, I'll do your PR for
(11:05):
you.
And I'm like, OK, all right,well, what the heck, I don't
have any money.
You know, this is a trade, wecan work with this.
So the first thing she got mewas a little article in the
business magazine in Chicago andthat morphed into a three-page
(11:26):
feature in Chicago Magazine andfrom there the ball really
really started rolling and theWall Street Journal picked it up
and People Magazine picked itup.
And then I'm two months intothis business and I'm like
praying, praying, praying.
It's going to work.
And so I'm standing in line ina grocery store in Chicago and
(11:53):
it's kind of like not a reallygood part of town and I have no
money at this point and I'm likeclutching these coupons because
I didn't want to do it in myown neighborhood and have like
people see me with coupons.
And this woman tapped me on theshoulder and she said hi, do
you remember me?
We met at a party last week andI will never forget this
woman's name.
(12:13):
Her name's Cheryl Trigger.
God love you.
So we started chatting and youknow, in the back of my mind,
when I was in line, I was justhoping oh God, please don't let
me go bankrupt this week, don't?
I'm too new, you know?
Don't?
You know, send me something.
You know, more clients,whatever?
And so we're just chatting andI said to her she goes how's
(12:36):
your dating thing going?
And I said, oh, actually, myfirst match, jack and Roberta.
I think they're gonna getmarried.
I'm like, oh sure, like they'relike perfect for each other.
So I just went on and onchatting about that.
Of course I didn't say I was Iwas gonna go bankrupt or
anything like that.
(12:57):
Um, and so I get a call thatafternoon and she said you know
I didn't mention this to you,but I'm a producer at CNN and we
want to follow a couple out tolunch tomorrow and do a feature
on you.
I was like, oh my gosh, cnn, youknow again 1990, you know it's
(13:19):
like oh, wow.
And you know so that's, that'show the whole thing started.
You know it was a lot of times,you know, so that's how the
whole thing started.
You know it was a lot of times.
You know it was perseverance,it was patience and the business
started to boom.
And From there I thought NewYork City would be a good market
(13:41):
, because I had lived there fora little while prior.
And we opened our secondlocation in New York and from
there, if we just jump 20 yearsforward to 2010, we had 110
locations globally.
Wow.
Mary (13:59):
That's amazing.
I think we can, and I'm goingto say, especially as women, I
think we can talk ourselves outof something that's very
different, Like, oh, I thinkthis is a great idea, but I
don't know, it seems so out ofthe norm.
It seems like you just sort ofwent with it.
I love that you follow thenewspaper delivery guy around
and put this, because it's Ithink that's how wonderful
(14:22):
things often start it's justhaving the courage to sort of
really just jump in and go withit and take some chances and not
let you know, cause youmentioned a couple of times the
money.
You didn't let that stop you.
You're just like let's, let'stry to roll with this, because
you had that gut feeling thatthis can be a great idea.
(14:44):
So just real quick, because I'mthinking about how did this
work?
Did people fill out paperapplications and you manually
matched people?
Andrea (14:55):
Yeah, they would come in for an hour interview.
We would match them.
They wouldn't see pictures.
An hour interview, we wouldmatch them, they wouldn't see
pictures.
And then we'd set up the date.
You know, for example, mary andJohn, you're meeting on Friday
at 12 o'clock at Bistro 110.
And then, after the date, youwould have to call it and give
us feedback.
So we're starting to learn moreabout you, we're starting to
(15:17):
learn more about him, so we cando, you know, a better and
better job of matching you, andyou know it worked really well.
Of course, you know, by thetime we had all these locations,
you know we had 800 employeesand I was more the CEO and had
to go to like board meetings andstuff, which which, if you ask
(15:38):
me, is really boring.
I like the startup.
I like the energy.
I like the energy.
I like the client interface, Ilike talking to people, because
I met so many people from somany walks of life.
I remember this is a long timeago Demi Moore and Bruce Willis
came into my office with theirnanny and they wanted to fix her
(16:00):
up.
This is my New York officebecause she was really lonely
and wanted to go home, and sohere I sat with the three of
them and then I would meetteachers and scientists and
engineers and lawyers anddoctors and I always thought
this job is a blast.
I can ask any question becauseI have to know about their love
life.
And I think I was a little nosyanyway in college my two
(16:23):
college roommates I fixed themup and they're still married
today.
Wow.
So I think I just like had thisthing in me, yeah, like I like
to help people and I likebusiness, so it was like a combo
thing that just worked for me.
Mary (16:38):
Obviously you were good at it, but I just love hearing
that story Because I think, youknow, sometimes I'll have
younger people listen to thisshow and I'm sure they're just
like what?
Like putting that kind of andfirst of all, sitting down and
filling out a form, a paper formwith a pen, is probably like no
, but anyway.
So I love that story andobviously you know I started in
(17:01):
that world of just a papernewspaper and I remember
circling the ads, sitting thereon my bed on a Sunday morning
with a Sunday newspaper,circling those ads, and that
excitement.
So obviously so much haschanged.
So okay, first of all, howwould you sort of pinpoint all
these guideposts where thelandscape has changed with this
(17:22):
kind of dating, and what trendsdo you see emerging now?
Andrea (17:27):
OK.
So you know, I saw the trendsoriginally start in about the
year 2000, because that's whenmore and more was obviously
going for about three or fouryears now, and some online
dating apps and sites andplatforms had started, but they
(17:47):
were a mess.
They were a mess from, you know.
It was chaotic from the peoplewho were running them.
This was a new thing, you know.
Nobody knew what to do with it.
And then the people who weresigning up for it were like
totally lost.
They didn't know what to dowith it.
And then the people who weresigning up for it were like
totally lost.
They didn't know what to dowith it either.
And these are people, you know,in their twenties and thirties
(18:08):
and forties, mostly during theadvent of online dating.
Okay, we push forward to 2010,when I sold it's just lunch and
there were two primary reasons Isold One my youngest daughter
was born.
Well, actually three reasons, Iguess Two offers in the same
(18:29):
week, one from matchcom and onefrom private equity.
I sold to private equity.
And then the third one was Ireally saw the writing on the
wall Online dating was going tobe big and even my clients it's
just lunch they didn'tunderstand how to use it.
Yet and these big conglomerateslike a matchcom, who owns like
(18:54):
30 different sites from you know, hinge to Tinder, to match, to
our time, et cetera.
They were starting to get ittogether.
But then where I saw the realopportunity?
Of course, when I started it Iwas in my 20s, so I worked
primarily with people in their20s and 30s.
So now I'm in my late 40s,approaching 50.
(19:18):
And I realized more and morepeople are getting divorced and
they have no idea what to do.
You know, when you walk downthe aisle when you were 25 or 30
, you never said, oh, I can'twait to do this again when I'm
55, you know, you just neverthought that was going to happen
(19:40):
, but you know it does.
Thought that was going tohappen, but you know it does.
40% of people end up gettingdivorced and that's what my
whole book focuses on.
Second acts.
So that was the third reason Isold, because I grew up with all
these online dating servicesand I understood them and I
understood where their strengthswere and where their weaknesses
(20:01):
were them and I understoodwhere their strengths were and
where their weaknesses were.
And you know, there's 1400dating apps out there and I knew
how to help people, because thebiggest initial mistake you can
make with online dating is youdon't know what site to pick
because there's so many of them,because there's so many of them
(20:21):
.
So what launched my second act?
My next career was a year ortwo later.
My brother called me and I havefive younger brothers and
sisters.
So this is my brother.
He's a year younger than me andhe's the CFO of a well-known
company and you know he's goodlooking and a nice guy and stuff
(20:43):
.
And he had gotten divorced liketwo years prior.
And he said you know, I'm doingonline dating and these women
I'm meeting are awful, awful.
They don't look like theirpictures.
They, you know, theirdescriptions are wrong.
And I said okay, jim, give meyour login and your password.
(21:04):
And he gave it to me.
I went in and I was like, oh, Ican't believe what he posted.
And I still say this about men,but you know, 40% of my clients
are men, 60% are women.
I'm still like I cannot believewhat men post.
You know they'll post photos ofthemselves, like taking a
selfie in the mirror, in theirbathroom or in their car or, you
(21:27):
know, holding a fish.
I'm like what are you guysthinking what you know?
But no woman is attracted tothis.
So, anyway, I fix his site, I I, you know, rewrite stuff, I get
new photos and a couple ofweeks later he's like, hey, I'm
meeting some really good women.
And I'm like, well, thank youvery much, I'm so happy, I'm so
(21:50):
happy.
And then it just started wordof mouth.
And at that point in time, whenI started 33,000 days, which is
like almost 15 years ago I hadalready set up over 33,000
people on dates so that's why Inamed it 33,000 Dates and I
already had 10,000 marriages,actually 10,200 marriages, and
(22:16):
at this point in time I'vestopped counting how many people
I have because I just can'tkeep track.
So now what I do is I helppeople.
And when you think about peoplelike 45 to 65, especially
that's the age group you knowsome are even widowed very young
.
Some are divorced, some aredivorced, some have been single
(22:40):
a long time, just like focusingon their career or long-term
relationships gone bad, and theydon't know where to start.
And guess what happens?
They go on a site and they giveup after two weeks and it's
because they're on the wrongsite.
And I'll give you an example.
(23:01):
So a couple of weeks ago I had anew client from Dallas.
She called me and I'm quizzingher and because before I take
somebody as a client, I do a 15minute call just to make sure
you know I can help them.
She said she was on a site, anapp called Coffee Meets Bagel,
(23:21):
and I said, okay, what made youpick Coffee Meets Bagel?
Because I'm thinking nobody inDallas uses Coffee Meets Bagel.
And she goes oh, my best friendin New York just got engaged.
She met him through CoffeeMeets Bagel.
And I'm like, oh, okay, thatmakes sense, because in LA,
(23:42):
miami and New York City CoffeeMeets Bagel is really popular.
And I told her that I gotnobody in Dallas is on that site
, so that's why you're notmeeting anyone.
So you know what happens topeople.
They get super discouragedafter a week or two and then
they just go online datingdoesn't work.
Online dating, excuse me, sucks.
(24:03):
Um and um.
I'm I'm not going to do it.
I mean nobody calls me on thephone and says I'm so excited to
call you and talk about onlinedating.
You know they're like, oh, doesit really work?
Can it work?
And you know, when you go backto and look at data going back
to 2023, one out of threemarriages that took place came
(24:27):
from online dating.
So we are so lucky, especiallythe 50 and 60 year old market,
and you know yourself, mary,from your own, you know personal
experience it works.
Mary (24:40):
Yeah, for sure.
Well, my marriage now.
We met online through a datingapp.
Yeah, which app did you meet on?
We met on Matchcom.
Andrea (24:48):
Oh yeah, that's a very strong app and I love their
interface.
It's very user-friendly andthey have good algorithms.
Mary (24:55):
Yeah, and I suspected that was some of it.
It's what site are you on?
So okay?
So I love getting into thisjuicy parks.
I knew this is what people wantto hear.
So biggest mistakes.
You talked about being on thewrong site for where you are
geographically, and is that alsosort of like what are you
looking for Does?
Is that how you also likechoose which app or which site
(25:18):
you use based on what outcomeyou want?
Andrea (25:21):
choose which app or which site you use based on what
outcome you want, what I do.
Then, once I take them as aclient, I do a one-hour Zoom
call and we talk about whatthey're looking for.
After that I'm thinking thewhole time, okay, where does she
or he belong?
And then I put it into researchbecause I'm very strategy
(25:43):
driven, business.
You know, I look at this in avery business-like fashion,
which some people are likeromance shouldn't be business
oriented.
I'm like, hey, you've got tohave a strategy or you're dead.
Yes, so then I use Hugh GallupNielsen Statista and of course,
(26:03):
I pay a lot of money for theirdata that I get on a monthly
basis.
So what I'm able to do withthese 1400 dating apps, and I
know which ones are the top 50,you know, it's not like I have
to go through all those apps andwhat I can plug in is where
(26:25):
they live, level of education,the percentage of men versus
women on the site.
For example, mary, you useMatchcom.
Matchcom, on average, has 75 to80% men versus women.
Yeah, so you know that was avery good choice.
(26:47):
So, and sometimes women willpick a site that's very heavy
female, so that's the wrong wayto go.
So this way I'm able to guidethem, not just with my gut,
which is probably 50% of it, butthe other 50% is hardcore
research that I do and make sureyou know, even from a little
(27:09):
town, you know, in Michigan, toa large city like Miami, I can
figure out okay, this makes themost sense for you.
Then the next problem we getinto challenge we get into is
their photos, because it's avery visual medium and if you
(27:29):
don't have great photos I meangreat photos, I don't mean
filtered, I don't mean superedited, I don't mean your
LinkedIn photos, I mean likephotos of you in action.
You're into pickleball, you'reinto tennis, you're into hiking.
I don't mean your LinkedInphotos, I mean like photos of
you in action.
You know you're into pickleball, you're into tennis, you're
into hiking.
I want some photos like thatyou actively, you know doing
these things, with nice lighting, where you look good Like.
(27:53):
I don't want a picture of youon the side of a mountain with
your helmet on and your goggleson while you're skiing.
I want to see you and because apicture paints a thousand words
and you can just really seewhat this person is if they're
(28:15):
action oriented.
Or I have one woman who she'san author and she just loves to
read.
Or I have one woman who she'san author and she just loves to
read and we shot most of herpictures at a big bookstore in
New York at the Strand, where itwas really cute Some of the
photos she took and the littlecafe there and stuff.
So you have to have the rightpictures.
Now the whole thing with AI Ilove AI, but the way some
(28:41):
clients are trying to overuse itright now by putting their
photos into AI and then theycome out looking like cartoon
characters and you can tellright away if a bio or photos
were AI generated.
So you don't want to use AI forthat.
I write the profiles for myclients and I keep in mind that
(29:05):
men don't read.
They're going to look at yourphotos and then they're going to
skim really fast.
So you got to.
You have to write it in bulletpoints and it's got to be short,
no big long paragraphs.
And then the next issue we'rereally getting to is the
messaging part, because, okay,now you're on the right site,
(29:29):
you've got great photos, you'vegot a great bio, now you have to
message.
And men's number one complaintis they get a heart or a like
from a woman and that's it.
No message, that's it.
And men are just like wait, shejust like kind of kicked the
(29:51):
ball back in my court Right now.
I have to do all the work.
Well, why wouldn't she send mea message?
And men find messages, theyshow self-confidence and that's
very sexy to men.
Women not in their fifties somuch, or forties, because
they'll actively choose men andreach out to men, but their
(30:16):
sixties I get pushed back likeoh, I'm online now and I'm just
going to sit here and thenthere'll be like I didn't have
any dates last week, andrea, andI'll be like okay, how many
messages they have?
This track?
You see, they have to fill out.
Um, how many messages did yousend?
Sending messages they shouldreach out to me?
(30:38):
And I'm like you're not in thefifties, you're not.
You know, this is the 2020s andthis is the way the game works
and it's a numbers game.
And this is the way the gameworks and it's a numbers game.
Yeah, and you can be supersuccessful online if you're
playing it right, and it's gotto be.
You know, you mentioned earlierI think we were still off camera
(30:58):
where you know you would getmessages like hey, what's up,
hey, how are you, hey, how'syour weekend.
There's no thought going intothose messages.
There's no way I really believehe read my profile or he has
interest in me, or you'll seesome that are longer.
(31:20):
There'll be two or threesentences that are so generic.
You know they're like a cut andpaste.
You know they're just sendingthe same thing to everyone.
So I like to say, keep yourmessages to two or three
sentences, just two or threesentences, and make it quirky.
And by quirky I don't meanweird, but I mean something that
(31:45):
makes you stand out from therest of the pack.
For example, I had this onemale client and he's like,
really like Wall Street-y andyou know the suit, the tie, the
whole Wall Street persona andone of the photos he sent me I
almost fainted, it was so funny.
(32:06):
He is standing on Wall Street,you can see the Wall Street sign
behind him and he's jugglingpomegranates and it was just
such a hysterical picture thatit was so easy for women you
know to comment on, like whoa, aWall Street guy who's also a
(32:27):
juggler, you know and jump intolike a couple more questions.
You know about that, like youknow, did you run away to the
circus when you were 15 andlearn, learn these skills.
You know you can make themessages fun and they should
never be brusque or too pointed.
I get that from my New York andLA clients.
(32:47):
You know they'll write amessage like you seem cute, you
want to have a drink.
Like really there's no warmth,there's no personality there.
So you've got to say somethingoutstanding.
And the more you practice,that's why my clients have
(33:08):
homework each week where I givethem a set amount of time and a
set number of messages they haveto send three times a week and
a trapping sheet.
So I'm watching their messagesand, you know, helping them
learn from their messages whatworks, what doesn't work.
Now, on average people you knowthink oh, I sent, you know,
(33:31):
three messages.
I'm going to get three dates.
No, you're not, nope, you knowit's.
It's typically one in five thatwill respond back to you.
I mean, if you're writing goodmessages and then the next
pitfall is suddenly you have atext buddy and you don't need a
text buddy, you know a couple oftexts back and forth are fine,
(33:54):
and then set up the date.
If you both live, you know,within 20, 30 minutes of each
other.
That's easy, right?
So set up the date.
I am not a fan of phone talkingbefore the dates, unless they're
like a phenomenal match andthey live two hours away.
Then I would say, do a 10minute chat beforehand, because
(34:19):
he's going to be driving a longway, or you're going to be each
driving an hour, or however it'sgoing to work.
And I'll tell you why I don'tlike phone.
One of two things will happenwith the phone.
Either you'll have this greatconversation and then your
expectations are like sky high.
You can't wait.
(34:39):
This is going to be great.
And just last week I had Julie,one of my clients.
She's like Andrea.
I've called like three of mygirlfriends.
I've found him this is the guyI'm going to marry and I go tell
me about the date.
And she goes, oh, we haven'tgone on one yet.
I'm like, oh, no, no, no.
Or the opposite happens.
(35:01):
You have a phone call and thephone call is kind of like
drudgery.
It's, you know, kind of boringand this might've been the exact
man for you and he might justnot be good on the phone.
So if he looks good otherwise,like that's why I don't want you
(35:24):
to go into the date with highexpectations.
I don't want you to go in withlow.
I want you to go in with zeroexpectations.
Like this is informationgathering.
I'm going to meet somebody newand we'll take it from there,
and my only thought's going tobe at the end of the day, do I
want to go on a second date withhim?
Mary (35:44):
Yeah, and you brought up so many important things in that
answer, because I think the onething that's really hard and I
worked in college with collegestudents for a long time and
they would be on Tinder or theywould be on Bumble or and they
would take this so personallywhen they would message and they
would get ignored.
So I like that you said I thinkit was one in five messages
(36:09):
will get an answer, and that'swhat was hard for me.
I think initially, when I wasyounger, I would take that
personally, Like, okay, I readyour profile, I took the time to
write something that actuallywas related to what's in your
profile and I would get nothinglike no response.
And I think people make themistake of thinking that that's
(36:30):
personal, that oh, there'ssomething wrong with me.
So you did touch on this, butwhat do you think the role of
mindset and confidence is inthis whole process and how do
you help clients with that?
Andrea (36:43):
Oh, that's the very first thing I do.
So mindset, where is their headat?
And that for me, begins withthe initial phone call, that 15
minute screening call, where Italk to them and I'm really
listening for attitude and whatthey have to say, like if right
(37:05):
away they're like my ex was anarcissist.
We had a custody battle foryears.
He took so much from me.
I'm thinking this woman is sonot ready to date because I'm a
perfect stranger and she istelling me all this.
She cannot date yet.
And you know, I'll tell them atthe end I think you need a
(37:27):
little more time.
On the other hand, sometimespeople call me and they'll say
you know, I've been in therapy,you know getting over a death or
a divorce or a breakup, andI'll say, oh, what does your
therapist think about youcalling me?
And if they say my therapistthinks it's the best thing I
(37:48):
could do, then I'm like done,I'm going to take her.
If they say my therapist islike against this, but I don't
really care, I want to do this,I won't take them because I
figure the therapist probablyknows something.
So what I'll say at the end ofthe call is I'll say you know,
think about this a little bitlonger.
(38:09):
I've been doing this for 32years.
I'm going to be here in a month.
I'm going to be here in a year.
I'm going to be here in sixmonths.
When you're ready, I'm ready.
So go back to your originalquestion.
Mindset my book, second AxeWinning Strategies for Dating
Over 50, it's no psychobabble, Imean.
It is straight to strategy.
(38:31):
It has 15 worksheets and 15 QRcodes, so you can scan the QR
code and I'll walk you throughthat worksheet.
My very first worksheet iswhere's your head at?
And you answer 10 questions andit's going to make you think
like can I go on a date withoutranting?
(38:51):
Can I do this?
How do I feel about this?
Am I a little bit excited, alittle bit nervous?
You know it's going to ask youthose right questions to see
where you're at with this wholething, where you're at with this
(39:12):
whole thing and the worksheets.
I want them to work through theworksheets in order, because
there's one that's just on yourbrand, because we all have a
brand.
You have a brand, I have abrand, we're on Instagram, we're
on Facebook, we might be onother things LinkedIn and we've
established a brand forourselves.
And online.
You are also establishing abrand and you want to think
(39:34):
about what kind of brand do youwant to portray online?
That's another thing to thinkabout and then jump forward.
I'm not going to talk about 15more issues, but the last one I
really love and people like rolltheir eyes at me about this
last worksheet.
The last worksheet in the bookis business plan for your
(39:55):
personal life, for your lovelife, for romance, and people
are like what I have to do this?
You know I have to make itbusinesslike and I say it's
really not businesslike.
It's thinking through yourstrategy.
Who are my competition?
What age range do I want todate?
(40:16):
How am I going to get out thereand market myself?
How comfortable am I with theway I look right now?
Do I need a new hairstyle?
Do I need to get a littlefitter?
Do I need to you know, go get amanicure.
Do I need to go get a facial?
Do I need a dating wardrobe?
(40:36):
Yes, you do.
You absolutely do, and I loveNordstrom for it's free and you
know you don't have to buyanything.
But you're going to go in andtell them hey, and I'm going to
gear this toward women right nowYou're going to go to Nordstrom
and say, hey, I want threedating outfits.
(40:58):
I'm just starting to date againand I don't want to look like
an old lady.
I don't want to look like a 20year old and, by the way, when I
pick a personal shopper, I willalways go for about a 35 year
old, because she's not going topush them toward, you know,
young stuff and she's not goingto push them to old lady stuff.
(41:22):
She's going to have like a muchbetter centered view of what
will be appealing on a date.
And you know what that does itgives you confidence.
Mary (41:33):
Because I think, too, we look to women sometimes to sort
of validate our fashion choices.
So when you're pairing withsomeone who knows this, if
that's an area where you're notfeeling quite confident, I think
that can help a lot because youhave somebody confident.
I think that can help a lotbecause you have somebody
helping you craft that and youknow the whole thing is so
(41:57):
interesting, the strategy thatyou use, because I just talked
to somebody in episode 21, andshe's writing a book about using
kind of a business plan in yourmarriage and she says what you
say about dating, that you knowit's supposed to be romantic and
you know, when you have asuccessful partnership with
someone, you know that there's alot of very basic communication
(42:19):
rules and all of the thingsthat we want to sort of put to
the side because it's notromantic.
That's where I think we run intosome trouble.
So you've really made this avery structured and strategic
plan to go about dating, which Ireally love that You've given
such great suggestions andconcrete tips.
(42:40):
So, first of all, peoplereentering the dating world.
As we said, after a loss orafter a long relationship that
didn't end up working out, orafter 50, there are unique
things, unique mindset things, Ithink that have to be addressed
with women that are older, andyou've really covered a lot of
that.
Andrea (42:59):
Yes, and one more thing that I just add a personal story
about me.
I was married for 24 years andI got divorced and I didn't date
for a couple of years.
And then, of course, where didI go?
I jumped on to online datingand, yes, I took my youngest
daughter to Nordstrom with meand, you know, tried on clothes
(43:24):
and had a personal shopper and acouple of things personal
shopper brought me.
I was like, oh, I'm neverwearing that and my daughter's
like, mom, that's really cute.
And now I find those are likemy most popular dating outfits.
And then the other thing is thisis really hard.
You have to develop a thickskin and if I could sell a thick
(43:46):
skins to people, I'd be like abillionaire, because we get our
feelings hurt so easily fromrejection.
And I remember this one manthat I picked out and I think I
was on Bumble and I was like, oh, he's perfect for me, he lives
in Palm Beach.
Everything clicked and I wrotehim what I thought was a super
(44:07):
great message.
Never heard from him and I waslike shocked.
So I know how all of you feel.
You know.
I know exactly how you feelBecause I've lived it.
You know I've lived it twice,being dumped.
And then you know, a longmarriage that ended, thank God,
(44:28):
fairly amicably.
And then, two years ago, I metmy husband online and we got
married in the fall in Italy.
Mary (44:37):
Wow, that's great.
Well, and I think it isimportant to know that we are
also dealing with another humanbeing, so you can do all the
planning you want, but sometimesthings run their course.
So I think it's having thatsense of, like openness and
adventure and you know, I know Igot to the point where I was
like it's one date, I'm justgoing to go with an open mind
(45:00):
and just see what happens, andmindset idea is so important,
but also having a strategy.
So, andrea, I loved our talktoday.
Thank you so much for beinghere, and can you tell us one
more time the name of your bookand where people can find it?
Andrea (45:16):
Sure, it's called Second Acts Winning Strategies for
Dating Over 50.
And you can go on my website.
It's at Amazon and anywhereelse you shop for books.
My website is 33,000datescomand it's 33000datescom.
(45:36):
And the other thing I would saywhen you go to my website,
another good thing to do isthere's a dating quiz on there
and it's free.
Take the dating quiz, becauseit's going to show you how you
stack up against my clients whohave met people and are in
successful relationships ormarriages, and it'll give you a
(46:00):
really good feeling for whereyou're at.
Mary (46:03):
Okay, excellent, and of course, I will link all of these
in the show notes so you guysdon't have to write all that
down.
So I will have it in the shownotes and thanks again, andrea,
and I want to thank all of youfor listening.
If you have comments on today'sshow, please let me know.
You can text me.
There's a link in the shownotes.
And, if you love listening,consider leaving a review,
(46:23):
because that's actually apowerful way to help other
people find me and hear all myamazing guests.
And finally, if you'd like tojoin my email community and get
my weekly musings on how natureand my garden give me lessons
about life, click the link inthe show notes to sign up and
until next time, go out into theworld and be the amazing,
resilient, vibrant violet thatyou are.
(46:44):
Thank you,
Welcome to No Shrinking Violets.
I'm your host, Mary Rothwell,licensed therapist and certified
integrative mental healthpractitioner.
I've created a space where wecelebrate the intuition and
power of women who want to breakfree from limiting narratives.
We'll explore all realms ofwellness what it means to take
up space unapologetically, andhow your essential nature is key
(00:28):
to living life on your terms.
It's time to own your space,trust your nature and flourish.
Let's dive in.
Hey, violets, welcome to theshow.
Before I begin, I wanted to putout a call to any woman that
thinks she has her own story oftaking up space to tell.
(00:49):
My most loved episodes are oneswhere women tell their personal
stories of overcomingchallenges and growing and
expanding into a new emotionalspace.
If you feel like it's time foryou to inspire others with your
story, check out the link in myshow notes for a contact form.
I'd love to help you share yournarrative with the world.
Okay, on to the show.
(01:12):
As someone who didn't marryuntil 37, then got divorced at
47, and remarried about two anda half years ago, I know a bit
about online dating.
I met my first husband throughan ad in the newspaper the Gen X
version of a dating app.
People wrote a short intro, nomore than two sentences, no
(01:33):
pictures.
There was a main phone numberto call.
Then you dialed the extensionfor the ad you liked.
That got you to an audiointroduction from the person
that wrote the ad.
If you were interested, youleft your name and phone number.
If you weren't, you hit nextand entered the number for the
next ad you wanted to hear.
All you had to go on was thetone of voice.
(01:53):
I hit next, quite often afteronly the first few words.
Thinking of that, now I realizehow random it was to choose
someone to date, even just afirst date, based only on what
they could convey in a fewsentences then how their voice
sounded.
But honestly, how simple thatwas compared to today.
Now there are pictures tochoose and a profile to write
(02:16):
and first dates to suggest.
At least on Hinge, where Irecently looked at a profile of
a young person who wanted someinsight, I didn't have any.
That is way too complex for me.
And then there are all the appswhich one might have the type
of potential mate that I'mlooking for.
Do I like the style of matchingor swiping?
(02:37):
In my own dating days, I wasmost bothered by the
dismissiveness of online quotemeeting.
I would not only take time toreference activities or other
details from the profile ofsomeone I was interested in to
craft my hello message, whilemen often simply wrote what's up
or I like your pictures.
But when someone reached out tome, even with one of those
(02:58):
inane sentences, I took the timeto write something back.
I mean, if someone approachedyou in person, would you just
abruptly turn and walk away?
I mean, if someone approachedyou in person, would you just
abruptly turn and walk away?
I mean if they were actuallysincere and not creepy.
But it's much easier for peopleto just ignore messages from
people they aren't interested in.
I learned not to be offendedbut instead framed it as
important information.
(03:19):
If you can't take 30 seconds torespond out of courtesy, what
kind of communicator might yoube in a real relationship?
And even as I'm saying all this, I can feel a bit of the chest
tightening.
That was part of my very earlydays on dating apps.
It was exciting andanxiety-ridden all at once.
Like shopping for a new car allthat shiny potential with no
(03:40):
idea what was under the hood,waiting to go wrong.
For people in midlife,especially those who are
re-entering the dating worldafter long relationships.
Navigating the online world ofmatchmaking can make any woman
wanna stay home, make popcornand just binge watch.
Anything but my guest today canoffer hope.
Andrea McGinty is a true pioneerin the world of dating and
(04:02):
relationships.
As the founder of it's JustLunch and 33000datescom, andrea
has helped millions of singlesnavigate the often tricky waters
of modern dating.
She has over 30 years ofexperience and has helped
facilitate over 10,000 marriages.
She's been featured on Oprah,the Today Show, the New York
Times and more, sharing herinsights into finding love at
(04:26):
every stage of life.
Now Andrea is on a mission toempower singles over 50 with
practical, no-nonsense advicefor building meaningful
connections in their second act.
So whether you're diving backinto the dating pool or just
curious about what's changed,andrea is here today to guide
the way Her influence has shapedthe industry, creating a legacy
(04:47):
that stands out in the world ofmatchmaking.
Andrea's book Second ActsWinning Strategies for Dating
Over 50, is available on herwebsite, amazon and anywhere
else you buy your books, andwe'll talk about that more near
the end.
Welcome to no Shrinking Violets, andrea.
Andrea (05:03):
Oh thanks, mary.
You know that was quite anintro because I was just
laughing when you were talkingabout the personal ads where you
would dial in in the early daysand people don't realize how
good we have it now becausethat's all there was.
I go back to the days of, like,the village voice or the people
(05:28):
that were a little more upscalewould do the like New York book
review, you know, and respondto those personal ads.
So we've got it so good now.
And when I go back to you know1990, when I got involved in
this whole thing and I can tellyou in a minute how I got
involved you know there was noGoogle, there was no online
(05:53):
dating, there was nothing.
So if you are a 50 or 60 yearold woman, you know, good luck,
just good luck, you know.
And it's changed so much forthose people in their second
acts of life and with moredivorce going on in their 50s.
(06:14):
So it's a great change.
Mary (06:17):
For sure.
It's also really, reallyintimidating and I know we're
going to get into this a lotmore, but I know one of the
overwhelming things is how doyou even start to build the
profile and to sort throughprofiles?
But I know we're going to getto that, but could we start with
you sharing your story, becauseI know that you were going to
get married in your twenties andthat didn't happen.
(06:38):
Can you share a little aboutthat story?
And then, how did thatexperience shape you, and I mean
even where things are today?
Andrea (06:46):
Oh, it shaped my entire life and, of course, at the
moment that it happened I didn'trealize the impact it was going
to have.
So I was in my early twenties,I was engaged, I was getting
married and two days before thewedding he called it off.
So, living in Chicago, I waslike, oh my gosh, I had like
(07:08):
this life planned out.
And you know, after I got overyou know the crying and the poor
me I started.
You know my friends would fixme up on dates and, yeah, I'm
pretty tall, I'm like five foot10.
And some of these dates myfriends would fix me up on, you
(07:29):
know, they were like five footfive and nothing against five
foot five men.
But I felt like an elephant, Ifelt like a giraffe, you know, I
just felt like so big and uhand plus.
You know, in those days peoplewere doing like dinner dates and
you knew in the first, like 15or 20 minutes, whether there was
chemistry.
But you know, in those dayspeople were doing like dinner
dates and you knew in the first,like 15 or 20 minutes, whether
there was chemistry.
But you know, oh, I'm going tobe sitting here for another two
(07:51):
hours to be polite.
And so, um, what happened?
You know, it's kind of like oneof those things where you know
a door closes and you know awindow opens, and so one day
again, you know I'm like 23 andI get a phone call from an
executive recruiter and you know, calling about some
(08:13):
professional opportunities.
I was an accounting and financemajor and which I never used,
by the way, as we will soon findout and you know she was
calling me about you know thesejobs or you know career
opportunities, and I was likegeez, as I'm listening to her
talk, I'm thinking why isn't shecalling me about?
(08:35):
Like two men I'd be reallyinterested in?
You know that she's picked outfor me.
So I got this idea that wouldn'tit be great if there was a
service that just did somethingwhere you met over lunch or you
met over you know a drink afterwork, and hence that's how it's
(08:57):
just lunch was born.
I thought, oh, this is a greatidea.
Again.
I thought, oh, this is a greatidea Again.
No, online dating, there isnothing, nothing out there.
And so I started it's JustLunch, with nothing.
I had $3,000.
(09:17):
That's it, that's it.
And it paid for a little tinyoffice space and 20,000 black
and white brochures that I stillhave a few that I laugh about
now.
So I have all these brochuresthat I'm like, oh, I don't have
any money to mail them.
What am I going to do with allthese things?
So this one night I talked acouple of my girlfriends in into
(09:38):
it was a Saturday night, youknow, early Sunday morning, it's
probably like two or 3 am intowalking through some
neighborhoods in Chicago thatwere very like yuppie oriented,
like Lincoln Park and the GoldCoast, et cetera, and we were
going to put them under people'syou know doorsteps of their
brownstones and stuff.
(09:59):
But then I saw the ChicagoTribune guy and he was
delivering the big fat, you knowSunday Chicago Tribune in a
really nice bag to each house.
And I thought, oh, let's justfollow this guy around with the
brochure inside because it'llmake us look like we have
(10:20):
credibility and we have moneyand that we can advertise in the
Chicago Tribune.
And anyway, my first call, youknow, I ran back to the office.
I remember I got a bagel.
I'm sitting at the office atlike 7 am I'm like, oh, the
phone is going to ring off thehook.
Chicago's going to go wild overthis idea.
And you know, of course.
(10:44):
Course.
I'd written a business plan,you know, for for my whole idea,
and one of the first people tocall me was a woman who is a PR
person.
Again 1990, people weren'treally up on what PR was Right.
So she said, hey, you trade mesome dates, I'll do your PR for
(11:05):
you.
And I'm like, OK, all right,well, what the heck, I don't
have any money.
You know, this is a trade, wecan work with this.
So the first thing she got mewas a little article in the
business magazine in Chicago andthat morphed into a three-page
(11:26):
feature in Chicago Magazine andfrom there the ball really
really started rolling and theWall Street Journal picked it up
and People Magazine picked itup.
And then I'm two months intothis business and I'm like
praying, praying, praying.
It's going to work.
And so I'm standing in line ina grocery store in Chicago and
(11:53):
it's kind of like not a reallygood part of town and I have no
money at this point and I'm likeclutching these coupons because
I didn't want to do it in myown neighborhood and have like
people see me with coupons.
And this woman tapped me on theshoulder and she said hi, do
you remember me?
We met at a party last week andI will never forget this
woman's name.
(12:13):
Her name's Cheryl Trigger.
God love you.
So we started chatting and youknow, in the back of my mind,
when I was in line, I was justhoping oh God, please don't let
me go bankrupt this week, don't?
I'm too new, you know?
Don't?
You know, send me something.
You know, more clients,whatever?
And so we're just chatting andI said to her she goes how's
(12:36):
your dating thing going?
And I said, oh, actually, myfirst match, jack and Roberta.
I think they're gonna getmarried.
I'm like, oh sure, like they'relike perfect for each other.
So I just went on and onchatting about that.
Of course I didn't say I was Iwas gonna go bankrupt or
anything like that.
(12:57):
Um, and so I get a call thatafternoon and she said you know
I didn't mention this to you,but I'm a producer at CNN and we
want to follow a couple out tolunch tomorrow and do a feature
on you.
I was like, oh my gosh, cnn, youknow again 1990, you know it's
(13:19):
like oh, wow.
And you know so that's, that'show the whole thing started.
You know it was a lot of times,you know, so that's how the
whole thing started.
You know it was a lot of times.
You know it was perseverance,it was patience and the business
started to boom.
And From there I thought NewYork City would be a good market
(13:41):
, because I had lived there fora little while prior.
And we opened our secondlocation in New York and from
there, if we just jump 20 yearsforward to 2010, we had 110
locations globally.
Wow.
Mary (13:59):
That's amazing.
I think we can, and I'm goingto say, especially as women, I
think we can talk ourselves outof something that's very
different, Like, oh, I thinkthis is a great idea, but I
don't know, it seems so out ofthe norm.
It seems like you just sort ofwent with it.
I love that you follow thenewspaper delivery guy around
and put this, because it's Ithink that's how wonderful
(14:22):
things often start it's justhaving the courage to sort of
really just jump in and go withit and take some chances and not
let you know, cause youmentioned a couple of times the
money.
You didn't let that stop you.
You're just like let's, let'stry to roll with this, because
you had that gut feeling thatthis can be a great idea.
(14:44):
So just real quick, because I'mthinking about how did this
work?
Did people fill out paperapplications and you manually
matched people?
Andrea (14:55):
Yeah, they would come in for an hour interview.
We would match them.
They wouldn't see pictures.
An hour interview, we wouldmatch them, they wouldn't see
pictures.
And then we'd set up the date.
You know, for example, mary andJohn, you're meeting on Friday
at 12 o'clock at Bistro 110.
And then, after the date, youwould have to call it and give
us feedback.
So we're starting to learn moreabout you, we're starting to
(15:17):
learn more about him, so we cando, you know, a better and
better job of matching you, andyou know it worked really well.
Of course, you know, by thetime we had all these locations,
you know we had 800 employeesand I was more the CEO and had
to go to like board meetings andstuff, which which, if you ask
(15:38):
me, is really boring.
I like the startup.
I like the energy.
I like the energy.
I like the client interface, Ilike talking to people, because
I met so many people from somany walks of life.
I remember this is a long timeago Demi Moore and Bruce Willis
came into my office with theirnanny and they wanted to fix her
(16:00):
up.
This is my New York officebecause she was really lonely
and wanted to go home, and sohere I sat with the three of
them and then I would meetteachers and scientists and
engineers and lawyers anddoctors and I always thought
this job is a blast.
I can ask any question becauseI have to know about their love
life.
And I think I was a little nosyanyway in college my two
(16:23):
college roommates I fixed themup and they're still married
today.
Wow.
So I think I just like had thisthing in me, yeah, like I like
to help people and I likebusiness, so it was like a combo
thing that just worked for me.
Mary (16:38):
Obviously you were good at it, but I just love hearing
that story Because I think, youknow, sometimes I'll have
younger people listen to thisshow and I'm sure they're just
like what?
Like putting that kind of andfirst of all, sitting down and
filling out a form, a paper formwith a pen, is probably like no
, but anyway.
So I love that story andobviously you know I started in
(17:01):
that world of just a papernewspaper and I remember
circling the ads, sitting thereon my bed on a Sunday morning
with a Sunday newspaper,circling those ads, and that
excitement.
So obviously so much haschanged.
So okay, first of all, howwould you sort of pinpoint all
these guideposts where thelandscape has changed with this
(17:22):
kind of dating, and what trendsdo you see emerging now?
Andrea (17:27):
OK.
So you know, I saw the trendsoriginally start in about the
year 2000, because that's whenmore and more was obviously
going for about three or fouryears now, and some online
dating apps and sites andplatforms had started, but they
(17:47):
were a mess.
They were a mess from, you know.
It was chaotic from the peoplewho were running them.
This was a new thing, you know.
Nobody knew what to do with it.
And then the people who weresigning up for it were like
totally lost.
They didn't know what to dowith it.
And then the people who weresigning up for it were like
totally lost.
They didn't know what to dowith it either.
And these are people, you know,in their twenties and thirties
(18:08):
and forties, mostly during theadvent of online dating.
Okay, we push forward to 2010,when I sold it's just lunch and
there were two primary reasons Isold One my youngest daughter
was born.
Well, actually three reasons, Iguess Two offers in the same
(18:29):
week, one from matchcom and onefrom private equity.
I sold to private equity.
And then the third one was Ireally saw the writing on the
wall Online dating was going tobe big and even my clients it's
just lunch they didn'tunderstand how to use it.
Yet and these big conglomerateslike a matchcom, who owns like
(18:54):
30 different sites from you know, hinge to Tinder, to match, to
our time, et cetera.
They were starting to get ittogether.
But then where I saw the realopportunity?
Of course, when I started it Iwas in my 20s, so I worked
primarily with people in their20s and 30s.
So now I'm in my late 40s,approaching 50.
(19:18):
And I realized more and morepeople are getting divorced and
they have no idea what to do.
You know, when you walk downthe aisle when you were 25 or 30
, you never said, oh, I can'twait to do this again when I'm
55, you know, you just neverthought that was going to happen
(19:40):
, but you know it does.
Thought that was going tohappen, but you know it does.
40% of people end up gettingdivorced and that's what my
whole book focuses on.
Second acts.
So that was the third reason Isold, because I grew up with all
these online dating servicesand I understood them and I
understood where their strengthswere and where their weaknesses
(20:01):
were them and I understoodwhere their strengths were and
where their weaknesses were.
And you know, there's 1400dating apps out there and I knew
how to help people, because thebiggest initial mistake you can
make with online dating is youdon't know what site to pick
because there's so many of them,because there's so many of them
(20:21):
.
So what launched my second act?
My next career was a year ortwo later.
My brother called me and I havefive younger brothers and
sisters.
So this is my brother.
He's a year younger than me andhe's the CFO of a well-known
company and you know he's goodlooking and a nice guy and stuff
(20:43):
.
And he had gotten divorced liketwo years prior.
And he said you know, I'm doingonline dating and these women
I'm meeting are awful, awful.
They don't look like theirpictures.
They, you know, theirdescriptions are wrong.
And I said okay, jim, give meyour login and your password.
(21:04):
And he gave it to me.
I went in and I was like, oh, Ican't believe what he posted.
And I still say this about men,but you know, 40% of my clients
are men, 60% are women.
I'm still like I cannot believewhat men post.
You know they'll post photos ofthemselves, like taking a
selfie in the mirror, in theirbathroom or in their car or, you
(21:27):
know, holding a fish.
I'm like what are you guysthinking what you know?
But no woman is attracted tothis.
So, anyway, I fix his site, I I, you know, rewrite stuff, I get
new photos and a couple ofweeks later he's like, hey, I'm
meeting some really good women.
And I'm like, well, thank youvery much, I'm so happy, I'm so
(21:50):
happy.
And then it just started wordof mouth.
And at that point in time, whenI started 33,000 days, which is
like almost 15 years ago I hadalready set up over 33,000
people on dates so that's why Inamed it 33,000 Dates and I
already had 10,000 marriages,actually 10,200 marriages, and
(22:16):
at this point in time I'vestopped counting how many people
I have because I just can'tkeep track.
So now what I do is I helppeople.
And when you think about peoplelike 45 to 65, especially
that's the age group you knowsome are even widowed very young
.
Some are divorced, some aredivorced, some have been single
(22:40):
a long time, just like focusingon their career or long-term
relationships gone bad, and theydon't know where to start.
And guess what happens?
They go on a site and they giveup after two weeks and it's
because they're on the wrongsite.
And I'll give you an example.
(23:01):
So a couple of weeks ago I had anew client from Dallas.
She called me and I'm quizzingher and because before I take
somebody as a client, I do a 15minute call just to make sure
you know I can help them.
She said she was on a site, anapp called Coffee Meets Bagel,
(23:21):
and I said, okay, what made youpick Coffee Meets Bagel?
Because I'm thinking nobody inDallas uses Coffee Meets Bagel.
And she goes oh, my best friendin New York just got engaged.
She met him through CoffeeMeets Bagel.
And I'm like, oh, okay, thatmakes sense, because in LA,
(23:42):
miami and New York City CoffeeMeets Bagel is really popular.
And I told her that I gotnobody in Dallas is on that site
, so that's why you're notmeeting anyone.
So you know what happens topeople.
They get super discouragedafter a week or two and then
they just go online datingdoesn't work.
Online dating, excuse me, sucks.
(24:03):
Um and um.
I'm I'm not going to do it.
I mean nobody calls me on thephone and says I'm so excited to
call you and talk about onlinedating.
You know they're like, oh, doesit really work?
Can it work?
And you know, when you go backto and look at data going back
to 2023, one out of threemarriages that took place came
(24:27):
from online dating.
So we are so lucky, especiallythe 50 and 60 year old market,
and you know yourself, mary,from your own, you know personal
experience it works.
Mary (24:40):
Yeah, for sure.
Well, my marriage now.
We met online through a datingapp.
Yeah, which app did you meet on?
We met on Matchcom.
Andrea (24:48):
Oh yeah, that's a very strong app and I love their
interface.
It's very user-friendly andthey have good algorithms.
Mary (24:55):
Yeah, and I suspected that was some of it.
It's what site are you on?
So okay?
So I love getting into thisjuicy parks.
I knew this is what people wantto hear.
So biggest mistakes.
You talked about being on thewrong site for where you are
geographically, and is that alsosort of like what are you
looking for Does?
Is that how you also likechoose which app or which site
(25:18):
you use based on what outcomeyou want?
Andrea (25:21):
choose which app or which site you use based on what
outcome you want, what I do.
Then, once I take them as aclient, I do a one-hour Zoom
call and we talk about whatthey're looking for.
After that I'm thinking thewhole time, okay, where does she
or he belong?
And then I put it into researchbecause I'm very strategy
(25:43):
driven, business.
You know, I look at this in avery business-like fashion,
which some people are likeromance shouldn't be business
oriented.
I'm like, hey, you've got tohave a strategy or you're dead.
Yes, so then I use Hugh GallupNielsen Statista and of course,
(26:03):
I pay a lot of money for theirdata that I get on a monthly
basis.
So what I'm able to do withthese 1400 dating apps, and I
know which ones are the top 50,you know, it's not like I have
to go through all those apps andwhat I can plug in is where
(26:25):
they live, level of education,the percentage of men versus
women on the site.
For example, mary, you useMatchcom.
Matchcom, on average, has 75 to80% men versus women.
Yeah, so you know that was avery good choice.
(26:47):
So, and sometimes women willpick a site that's very heavy
female, so that's the wrong wayto go.
So this way I'm able to guidethem, not just with my gut,
which is probably 50% of it, butthe other 50% is hardcore
research that I do and make sureyou know, even from a little
(27:09):
town, you know, in Michigan, toa large city like Miami, I can
figure out okay, this makes themost sense for you.
Then the next problem we getinto challenge we get into is
their photos, because it's avery visual medium and if you
(27:29):
don't have great photos I meangreat photos, I don't mean
filtered, I don't mean superedited, I don't mean your
LinkedIn photos, I mean likephotos of you in action.
You're into pickleball, you'reinto tennis, you're into hiking.
I don't mean your LinkedInphotos, I mean like photos of
you in action.
You know you're into pickleball, you're into tennis, you're
into hiking.
I want some photos like thatyou actively, you know doing
these things, with nice lighting, where you look good Like.
(27:53):
I don't want a picture of youon the side of a mountain with
your helmet on and your goggleson while you're skiing.
I want to see you and because apicture paints a thousand words
and you can just really seewhat this person is if they're
(28:15):
action oriented.
Or I have one woman who she'san author and she just loves to
read.
Or I have one woman who she'san author and she just loves to
read and we shot most of herpictures at a big bookstore in
New York at the Strand, where itwas really cute Some of the
photos she took and the littlecafe there and stuff.
So you have to have the rightpictures.
Now the whole thing with AI Ilove AI, but the way some
(28:41):
clients are trying to overuse itright now by putting their
photos into AI and then theycome out looking like cartoon
characters and you can tellright away if a bio or photos
were AI generated.
So you don't want to use AI forthat.
I write the profiles for myclients and I keep in mind that
(29:05):
men don't read.
They're going to look at yourphotos and then they're going to
skim really fast.
So you got to.
You have to write it in bulletpoints and it's got to be short,
no big long paragraphs.
And then the next issue we'rereally getting to is the
messaging part, because, okay,now you're on the right site,
(29:29):
you've got great photos, you'vegot a great bio, now you have to
message.
And men's number one complaintis they get a heart or a like
from a woman and that's it.
No message, that's it.
And men are just like wait, shejust like kind of kicked the
(29:51):
ball back in my court Right now.
I have to do all the work.
Well, why wouldn't she send mea message?
And men find messages, theyshow self-confidence and that's
very sexy to men.
Women not in their fifties somuch, or forties, because
they'll actively choose men andreach out to men, but their
(30:16):
sixties I get pushed back likeoh, I'm online now and I'm just
going to sit here and thenthere'll be like I didn't have
any dates last week, andrea, andI'll be like okay, how many
messages they have?
This track?
You see, they have to fill out.
Um, how many messages did yousend?
Sending messages they shouldreach out to me?
(30:38):
And I'm like you're not in thefifties, you're not.
You know, this is the 2020s andthis is the way the game works
and it's a numbers game.
And this is the way the gameworks and it's a numbers game.
Yeah, and you can be supersuccessful online if you're
playing it right, and it's gotto be.
You know, you mentioned earlierI think we were still off camera
(30:58):
where you know you would getmessages like hey, what's up,
hey, how are you, hey, how'syour weekend.
There's no thought going intothose messages.
There's no way I really believehe read my profile or he has
interest in me, or you'll seesome that are longer.
(31:20):
There'll be two or threesentences that are so generic.
You know they're like a cut andpaste.
You know they're just sendingthe same thing to everyone.
So I like to say, keep yourmessages to two or three
sentences, just two or threesentences, and make it quirky.
And by quirky I don't meanweird, but I mean something that
(31:45):
makes you stand out from therest of the pack.
For example, I had this onemale client and he's like,
really like Wall Street-y andyou know the suit, the tie, the
whole Wall Street persona andone of the photos he sent me I
almost fainted, it was so funny.
(32:06):
He is standing on Wall Street,you can see the Wall Street sign
behind him and he's jugglingpomegranates and it was just
such a hysterical picture thatit was so easy for women you
know to comment on, like whoa, aWall Street guy who's also a
(32:27):
juggler, you know and jump intolike a couple more questions.
You know about that, like youknow, did you run away to the
circus when you were 15 andlearn, learn these skills.
You know you can make themessages fun and they should
never be brusque or too pointed.
I get that from my New York andLA clients.
(32:47):
You know they'll write amessage like you seem cute, you
want to have a drink.
Like really there's no warmth,there's no personality there.
So you've got to say somethingoutstanding.
And the more you practice,that's why my clients have
(33:08):
homework each week where I givethem a set amount of time and a
set number of messages they haveto send three times a week and
a trapping sheet.
So I'm watching their messagesand, you know, helping them
learn from their messages whatworks, what doesn't work.
Now, on average people you knowthink oh, I sent, you know,
(33:31):
three messages.
I'm going to get three dates.
No, you're not, nope, you knowit's.
It's typically one in five thatwill respond back to you.
I mean, if you're writing goodmessages and then the next
pitfall is suddenly you have atext buddy and you don't need a
text buddy, you know a couple oftexts back and forth are fine,
(33:54):
and then set up the date.
If you both live, you know,within 20, 30 minutes of each
other.
That's easy, right?
So set up the date.
I am not a fan of phone talkingbefore the dates, unless they're
like a phenomenal match andthey live two hours away.
Then I would say, do a 10minute chat beforehand, because
(34:19):
he's going to be driving a longway, or you're going to be each
driving an hour, or however it'sgoing to work.
And I'll tell you why I don'tlike phone.
One of two things will happenwith the phone.
Either you'll have this greatconversation and then your
expectations are like sky high.
You can't wait.
(34:39):
This is going to be great.
And just last week I had Julie,one of my clients.
She's like Andrea.
I've called like three of mygirlfriends.
I've found him this is the guyI'm going to marry and I go tell
me about the date.
And she goes, oh, we haven'tgone on one yet.
I'm like, oh, no, no, no.
Or the opposite happens.
(35:01):
You have a phone call and thephone call is kind of like
drudgery.
It's, you know, kind of boringand this might've been the exact
man for you and he might justnot be good on the phone.
So if he looks good otherwise,like that's why I don't want you
(35:24):
to go into the date with highexpectations.
I don't want you to go in withlow.
I want you to go in with zeroexpectations.
Like this is informationgathering.
I'm going to meet somebody newand we'll take it from there,
and my only thought's going tobe at the end of the day, do I
want to go on a second date withhim?
Mary (35:44):
Yeah, and you brought up so many important things in that
answer, because I think the onething that's really hard and I
worked in college with collegestudents for a long time and
they would be on Tinder or theywould be on Bumble or and they
would take this so personallywhen they would message and they
would get ignored.
So I like that you said I thinkit was one in five messages
(36:09):
will get an answer, and that'swhat was hard for me.
I think initially, when I wasyounger, I would take that
personally, Like, okay, I readyour profile, I took the time to
write something that actuallywas related to what's in your
profile and I would get nothinglike no response.
And I think people make themistake of thinking that that's
(36:30):
personal, that oh, there'ssomething wrong with me.
So you did touch on this, butwhat do you think the role of
mindset and confidence is inthis whole process and how do
you help clients with that?
Andrea (36:43):
Oh, that's the very first thing I do.
So mindset, where is their headat?
And that for me, begins withthe initial phone call, that 15
minute screening call, where Italk to them and I'm really
listening for attitude and whatthey have to say, like if right
(37:05):
away they're like my ex was anarcissist.
We had a custody battle foryears.
He took so much from me.
I'm thinking this woman is sonot ready to date because I'm a
perfect stranger and she istelling me all this.
She cannot date yet.
And you know, I'll tell them atthe end I think you need a
(37:27):
little more time.
On the other hand, sometimespeople call me and they'll say
you know, I've been in therapy,you know getting over a death or
a divorce or a breakup, andI'll say, oh, what does your
therapist think about youcalling me?
And if they say my therapistthinks it's the best thing I
(37:48):
could do, then I'm like done,I'm going to take her.
If they say my therapist islike against this, but I don't
really care, I want to do this,I won't take them because I
figure the therapist probablyknows something.
So what I'll say at the end ofthe call is I'll say you know,
think about this a little bitlonger.
(38:09):
I've been doing this for 32years.
I'm going to be here in a month.
I'm going to be here in a year.
I'm going to be here in sixmonths.
When you're ready, I'm ready.
So go back to your originalquestion.
Mindset my book, second AxeWinning Strategies for Dating
Over 50, it's no psychobabble, Imean.
It is straight to strategy.
(38:31):
It has 15 worksheets and 15 QRcodes, so you can scan the QR
code and I'll walk you throughthat worksheet.
My very first worksheet iswhere's your head at?
And you answer 10 questions andit's going to make you think
like can I go on a date withoutranting?
(38:51):
Can I do this?
How do I feel about this?
Am I a little bit excited, alittle bit nervous?
You know it's going to ask youthose right questions to see
where you're at with this wholething, where you're at with this
(39:12):
whole thing and the worksheets.
I want them to work through theworksheets in order, because
there's one that's just on yourbrand, because we all have a
brand.
You have a brand, I have abrand, we're on Instagram, we're
on Facebook, we might be onother things LinkedIn and we've
established a brand forourselves.
And online.
You are also establishing abrand and you want to think
(39:34):
about what kind of brand do youwant to portray online?
That's another thing to thinkabout and then jump forward.
I'm not going to talk about 15more issues, but the last one I
really love and people like rolltheir eyes at me about this
last worksheet.
The last worksheet in the bookis business plan for your
(39:55):
personal life, for your lovelife, for romance, and people
are like what I have to do this?
You know I have to make itbusinesslike and I say it's
really not businesslike.
It's thinking through yourstrategy.
Who are my competition?
What age range do I want todate?
(40:16):
How am I going to get out thereand market myself?
How comfortable am I with theway I look right now?
Do I need a new hairstyle?
Do I need to get a littlefitter?
Do I need to you know, go get amanicure.
Do I need to go get a facial?
Do I need a dating wardrobe?
(40:36):
Yes, you do.
You absolutely do, and I loveNordstrom for it's free and you
know you don't have to buyanything.
But you're going to go in andtell them hey, and I'm going to
gear this toward women right nowYou're going to go to Nordstrom
and say, hey, I want threedating outfits.
(40:58):
I'm just starting to date againand I don't want to look like
an old lady.
I don't want to look like a 20year old and, by the way, when I
pick a personal shopper, I willalways go for about a 35 year
old, because she's not going topush them toward, you know,
young stuff and she's not goingto push them to old lady stuff.
(41:22):
She's going to have like a muchbetter centered view of what
will be appealing on a date.
And you know what that does itgives you confidence.
Mary (41:33):
Because I think, too, we look to women sometimes to sort
of validate our fashion choices.
So when you're pairing withsomeone who knows this, if
that's an area where you're notfeeling quite confident, I think
that can help a lot because youhave somebody confident.
I think that can help a lotbecause you have somebody
helping you craft that and youknow the whole thing is so
(41:57):
interesting, the strategy thatyou use, because I just talked
to somebody in episode 21, andshe's writing a book about using
kind of a business plan in yourmarriage and she says what you
say about dating, that you knowit's supposed to be romantic and
you know, when you have asuccessful partnership with
someone, you know that there's alot of very basic communication
(42:19):
rules and all of the thingsthat we want to sort of put to
the side because it's notromantic.
That's where I think we run intosome trouble.
So you've really made this avery structured and strategic
plan to go about dating, which Ireally love that You've given
such great suggestions andconcrete tips.
(42:40):
So, first of all, peoplereentering the dating world.
As we said, after a loss orafter a long relationship that
didn't end up working out, orafter 50, there are unique
things, unique mindset things, Ithink that have to be addressed
with women that are older, andyou've really covered a lot of
that.
Andrea (42:59):
Yes, and one more thing that I just add a personal story
about me.
I was married for 24 years andI got divorced and I didn't date
for a couple of years.
And then, of course, where didI go?
I jumped on to online datingand, yes, I took my youngest
daughter to Nordstrom with meand, you know, tried on clothes
(43:24):
and had a personal shopper and acouple of things personal
shopper brought me.
I was like, oh, I'm neverwearing that and my daughter's
like, mom, that's really cute.
And now I find those are likemy most popular dating outfits.
And then the other thing is thisis really hard.
You have to develop a thickskin and if I could sell a thick
(43:46):
skins to people, I'd be like abillionaire, because we get our
feelings hurt so easily fromrejection.
And I remember this one manthat I picked out and I think I
was on Bumble and I was like, oh, he's perfect for me, he lives
in Palm Beach.
Everything clicked and I wrotehim what I thought was a super
(44:07):
great message.
Never heard from him and I waslike shocked.
So I know how all of you feel.
You know.
I know exactly how you feelBecause I've lived it.
You know I've lived it twice,being dumped.
And then you know, a longmarriage that ended, thank God,
(44:28):
fairly amicably.
And then, two years ago, I metmy husband online and we got
married in the fall in Italy.
Mary (44:37):
Wow, that's great.
Well, and I think it isimportant to know that we are
also dealing with another humanbeing, so you can do all the
planning you want, but sometimesthings run their course.
So I think it's having thatsense of, like openness and
adventure and you know, I know Igot to the point where I was
like it's one date, I'm justgoing to go with an open mind
(45:00):
and just see what happens, andmindset idea is so important,
but also having a strategy.
So, andrea, I loved our talktoday.
Thank you so much for beinghere, and can you tell us one
more time the name of your bookand where people can find it?
Andrea (45:16):
Sure, it's called Second Acts Winning Strategies for
Dating Over 50.
And you can go on my website.
It's at Amazon and anywhereelse you shop for books.
My website is 33,000datescomand it's 33000datescom.
(45:36):
And the other thing I would saywhen you go to my website,
another good thing to do isthere's a dating quiz on there
and it's free.
Take the dating quiz, becauseit's going to show you how you
stack up against my clients whohave met people and are in
successful relationships ormarriages, and it'll give you a
(46:00):
really good feeling for whereyou're at.
Mary (46:03):
Okay, excellent, and of course, I will link all of these
in the show notes so you guysdon't have to write all that
down.
So I will have it in the shownotes and thanks again, andrea,
and I want to thank all of youfor listening.
If you have comments on today'sshow, please let me know.
You can text me.
There's a link in the shownotes.
And, if you love listening,consider leaving a review,
(46:23):
because that's actually apowerful way to help other
people find me and hear all myamazing guests.
And finally, if you'd like tojoin my email community and get
my weekly musings on how natureand my garden give me lessons
about life, click the link inthe show notes to sign up and
until next time, go out into theworld and be the amazing,
resilient, vibrant violet thatyou are.
(46:44):
Thank you,
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