October 23, 2025 • 54 mins
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Do you ever find yourself wondering if constant overwhelm is just the price of womanhood? If checking all the boxes of success should leave you feeling this depleted? You're not alone.
In this illuminating conversation with Dr. Wendy O'Connor, a Stanford-trained positive psychologist and success coach, we unpack the powerful framework of positive psychology and how it transforms the way we approach mental health and personal fulfillment. Rather than focusing solely on what's wrong, we explore how our natural strengths – even those born from survival mechanisms – can become pathways to thriving.
Dr. Wendy shares her compelling journey from seeing 40 therapy clients weekly while raising three young children (including twins!) to recognizing she was merely surviving rather than thriving. This turning point led her to discover the science of happiness and develop her evidence-based success method that has helped thousands of women worldwide design lives they're obsessed with.
What makes this episode particularly valuable is the practical, actionable guidance. Learn how to audit your time to see where your energy truly goes, identify your character strengths using free assessments, and implement a powerful one-minute morning routine that can transform your entire day. We demystify the process of creating a "life by design" – one aligned with your authentic strengths, values, and desires rather than external expectations.
You'll discover why "thinking positive" isn't enough, how to recognize and reframe automatic thoughts that keep you stuck in overwhelm, and ways to model these principles for your children without becoming "the psychologist mom." Whether you're feeling burned out professionally, stretched thin at home, or simply sensing there must be more to life than constant busyness, this conversation offers both validation and a clear roadmap forward.
Ready to move beyond merely surviving to truly thriving? Listen now, and take the first step toward owning your space, trusting your nature, and flourishing on your terms.
You can find Wendy HERE.
Connect with Dr. Wendy on Instagram @DrWendyOConnor to learn about her upcoming "Fierce Finishers" masterclass and "Thrive 75" accountability program.
Sign up for the launch team for my book, Nature Knows, and get free insider news and surprises at https://maryrothwell.net/natureknows
Comments about this episode? Suggestions for a future episode? Wanna be a guest? Email me directly at NSVpodcast@gmail.com.
Follow me on Facebook and Instagram, and check out my website!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mary (00:05):
Welcome to no Shrinking Violence.
I'm your host, mary Rothwell,licensed therapist and certified
integrative mental healthpractitioner.
I've created a space where wecelebrate the intuition and
power of women who want to breakfree from limiting narratives.
We'll explore all realms ofwellness, what it means to take
up space unapologetically, andhow your essential nature is key
(00:28):
to living life on your terms.
It's time to own your space,trust your nature and flourish.
Let's dive in.
Hey Violets, welcome to theshow.
In my work with clients, I oftenstart from the framework of
positive psychology.
In a sense, this is swimmingupstream in a world where mental
(00:49):
health diagnoses frametreatment.
What I mean by that is we'reused to talking about clients or
, in the medical world, patients, in terms of what's wrong with
them.
Unfortunately, at least here inthe United States, people that
need to use insurance to obtaintreatment need a diagnosis.
Okay, let me explain a bit more, as I'll be talking about this
(01:09):
idea of positive psychology withmy guest today, and I'll focus
on mental health diagnoses,because I'm a licensed trained
therapist.
So when I get a client whoscores high on an assessment for
anxiety, or they tell me intheir consultation call before
booking that they have anxiety,I will often put that kind of to
the side in my mind with alittle asterisk, because I mean,
(01:32):
we all have anxiety and sureit's important to know, as it's
the feeling they're focused on.
But what I will explore withthem is, first, how is the
anxiety keeping them from livingtheir best life and where was
that seed planted?
And that's where I slap on thepositive psychology frame,
Because first, we're nature,which you hear me say all the
(01:53):
time, and second, we adapt toour environment based on our
genetic code.
First.
Okay so adult anxiety typically, but not always, started as a
role you had in your family.
Example I have a late brotherwho had both mental health and
addiction issues and as a kidwho was eight years younger than
him, I was often the target ofhis abuse.
(02:15):
I could have handled that inmany ways.
I could have acted out to getmore of my parents' attention.
I could have developed physicalissues unconsciously that
forced adults to increase theirfocus on my needs, or I could
have recognized that I needed toprotect myself from danger and
vacate the building.
Guess which one I chose?
I fled.
That was my natural tendency.
(02:36):
We all react by fighting,fleeing, freezing or, more
complex, fawning.
I would go to the woods or losemyself in a book, and I for
sure grew into an adult thatdidn't trust others to take care
of me and who, during my datingyears, could spot the smell and
actions of a problem drinker amile away.
So what does that have to dowith positive psychology?
(02:58):
Well, what was my strength?
Inner resiliency andself-protection.
But here's where it gets tricky.
Often, people end up in myoffice when the instinctive
method of survival our strengthsoften become our weaknesses.
Using a frame of positivepsychology helps to recognize
that first, no one is broken.
You acted based on what madesense at the time, but now
(03:20):
something like a learnedbehavior doing everything
yourself because you don't trustanyone else can certainly
impact the depth ofrelationships, for example.
Okay, so my guest today is WendyO'Connor, and she uses positive
psychology to help womenup-level their success and
happiness.
Oh, and I follow her on socialmedia and her energy and humor
(03:41):
are amazing.
I'm looking forward so much toexploring positive psychology
and all the other things withher.
So let me give you a quickintro and we will get to it.
Dr Wendy is a Stanford-trainedpositive psychologist and
success coach.
She helps women design theirmost meaningful, intentional and
fulfilling lives.
Utilizing her evidence-basedsuccess method, dr Wendy has
(04:02):
helped thousands of womenworldwide live a life they are
obsessed with.
Welcome to no Shrinking Violets, wendy.
Wendy (04:09):
Thank you so much, Mary.
I can't wait to have thisconversation with you today.
Mary (04:14):
All right.
So I always start with havingmy guests tell us a little bit
about their own life hurdlesthat inspired them to pursue the
work that they do.
So what are, what do you feellike are the most important
parts of your story?
Wendy (04:29):
I would say the most important parts start back in
seventh grade when my professorof psychology at the time so
this is middle school introducedthe concept of having a career
in psychology and what peoplewho pursue psychology degrees
can do with it.
And one of the things that shehad said was you could be a
(04:52):
clinical psychologist, you couldhave a practice, and people
come to you because they'reupset or sad or struggling or
having some challenges in theirlives.
They need support.
And I immediately thought tomyself this is what I want to do
for my life.
This is what I want to do formy life.
This is what I want to do formy career.
It's a no brainer.
I already do this for myfriends, for free.
I can get paid to help peoplefeel better.
(05:13):
Like this is so like.
Why isn't everybody like tryingto grab for the spot of
clinical psychologists right now?
And I?
That was where the seed wasplanted and it never departed.
It's so odd to me that at thattime I felt such a connection
(05:34):
with this concept of pursuingpsych from a.
I can help people hang ashingle, have a nice, sweet
little boutique practice andjust feel like.
It just made me feel excitedand happy at the time imagining
it.
So that was, that was chapterone for me of a pivotal moment.
Looking back now at the time, Ididn't really see it.
But looking back now whenpeople say, like, how did you
become a psychologist?
Or why are you a psychologist?
(05:55):
A lot of us have challenges anda lot of us have adversity in
our history, and that wasabsolutely the case for me as
well.
And so as I look back to howchallenging childhood was for me
, with my anxiety and with myhome environment, I'm like, oh,
of course I did, like I wasreally just a genuinely curious
(06:15):
human who wanted to understandhow this was my life, and I
didn't really realize that formany years after.
But seventh grade was a momentFast forward to me, completing
my doctorate in clinical psych,hanging my shingle, much like I
had planned, making jam andbabies, much like I had planned,
and then I discover that I amgoing to go from my first baby
(06:41):
to three babies within two years.
So I have my first child.
When she was six months old, Iwas pregnant with twins, and all
three girls under two, allthree in diapers, was a season
of life.
That, of course, I didn'tanticipate and wasn't whatever
prepared means wasn't preparedfor.
(07:01):
But you rise, you just do whatyou need to do to figure it out.
And it was wonderful in so manyways.
But one of the major ways that Istarted to feel really
disconnected from my own innerjoy was burnout, feeling really
burnt out.
I was seeing 40 patients a weekin a four-day schedule, back to
back to back, which when I wasyounger it was fine.
(07:23):
But as soon as I had thesechildren and my energy was just
being zapped and zapped, andzapped, it was really difficult
for me to give to my patientsand then to come home with
anything in the reserve for myfamily, namely my husband.
Because I'll never forget theday I came home from work.
I'm like walk through the door,so excited to see the babies,
(07:45):
and he said to me like have youeven looked at me today?
And I was thinking I don't, Idon't think so.
Was I supposed to miss the lookat your husband, memo?
I was so tapped that it wentfrom patients to babies and
that's all I had in me and Ithought, wow, this is such a
wake up moment.
I'm not thrilled.
(08:06):
Every day I'm feeling dread,I'm having the Sunday scaries.
I've never had those before,and I started to say something's
got to change.
And I know I wanted to stayconnected to the work that I'm
so passionate about.
This is my life, this is mymission, this is what I'm meant
to do.
It's my purpose Helping peoplethrive in the ways that I like
(08:27):
to do it.
This is the way I'm meant to beliving in my life.
However, I didn't feel like thatfor a while and I was saying to
myself at the time, and Iliterally was saying these words
in my head I'm not like, I'mnot meant to just survive this
life.
Are we just surviving this life?
What is going on?
I'm not thriving at all.
And so then I started toexplore how to thrive, because
(08:49):
my work in clinical psych upuntil this point was all about
recovery from anxiety, recoveryfrom depression, taking you from
a place of really struggling tosurviving, to being able to
function, to hold your job, tohold your relationships.
And there is this other worldthat I've never really tapped
into, and it wasn't until I hadmy own self-awareness.
Moment of this can't be as goodas it gets, can it?
(09:11):
Like I did all the right things?
And here I am.
Why am I waking up exhaustedand depleted.
So I pursued positive psychology.
I found the science ofhappiness and thought I can't
believe there's a science tohappiness.
This is the coolest thing everfor a science-backed
practitioner and dove into it.
And then that just became mypath to success and happiness.
(09:32):
And I said this is exactly whatwomen are needing Specifically
I focus on women, but it appliesto everybody.
But I felt like this is exactlywhat women are needing.
We're following theseconditioned paths of checking
the boxes, going through themotions, doing the right thing,
pursuing success However theworld defines it for us, and
(09:53):
waking up one day saying is thisreally as good as it gets?
How can this be?
And that was that aha moment ofjust realizing the science of
happiness is available to all ofus If we just are more aware of
the tools that will allow us toflourish.
Life could be so much better byour design.
(10:14):
But so many of us are not awareyet and still continue to check
the boxes, languish, go throughthe motions, live on default
and then wonder why we'reunhappy.
So those are the pivotalmoments of my story that got me
here, because first it was thisclinical desire and then it was
this coaching focus, because Iwanted to work well beyond
(10:38):
survival.
I wanted to get people reallyto a place of waking up, excited
for their days, putting theirfeet on the ground and saying,
oh my God, I can't wait for thisday.
That was my goal.
Mary (10:48):
Yeah, well, there's a couple things you said.
First, when you said you saw 40clients in four days, I got
like I felt sick in my stomachbecause I that you know, doing
the work, it's you have to be sofocused.
So I just think about the work,it's you have to be so focused.
So I just think about what thatwas like for you to do that and
(11:09):
then be a mom and a wife,because, yeah, that's part of it
Sometimes slips to the bottomof the list, so that's amazing.
But you know, when I was trainedquite a bit before you,
positive psychology wasn't evena thing yet, and when it started
to be a thing, it was this woo,woo.
Why are we focusing on feelinggood?
Because we're so much about,I'll just say, united States,
(11:30):
we're so much about figuring outwhat's wrong with us, and I
think women do that so much morebecause we're very aware of our
inner landscape and so we feela certain way or we, like you
just articulated, we have a job,we have children, we have a
family, and I don't know if youreally did make jam, but that's
an endeavor too, I did make jam.
Wendy (11:53):
And then I realized this is not as fun as I thought.
Forget it, but it was a goal.
The vision of my life was Iwant to make jam and babies and
have a small private practiceand life.
That's all I need and want.
And then you do all the thingsand jam wasn't always cut out to
be in my mind.
The private practice wasincredibly successful.
I had two practices, thrivingpractices and.
(12:14):
But we think the goal is moreor excess, or being full or at
capacity, and then we realizethere's cost to that and
consequence to that and we don'trealize typically until we get
to that place.
Yeah, and then we realizethere's cost to that and
consequence to that, and wedon't realize typically until we
get to that place.
Mary (12:27):
Yeah, and you talked about design.
So I feel like sometimes we aswomen get to this point and we
think this is how it's supposedto feel.
It's supposed to feeloverwhelming, and that means
we're doing all the things we'resupposed to do.
So pivot a little bit and talkabout what do you mean when you
talk about life by design?
Wendy (12:48):
It's my favorite thing to talk about.
So let's do it, because this isreally where we get to shift
our thinking from it's so hardto it gets to be light.
And I say this to my clientsall the time, and in the
beginning especially, I kind ofget the eye roll, and that's
okay because I know eventuallyit does sink in and it does
(13:10):
become their reality.
But we have this ingrainedacceptance of it's supposed to
feel hard and I'm supposed to bebusy, and busyness is a badge
of honor, and I'm supposed to beoverexerting myself and saying
yes to everything and boundarieswould make me the B word and I
just this is how it is, this ismy lot, this is how we do and
(13:34):
the reality is it's BS.
And if our goal is, if any ofour goals are to just be our
best self for those that we love, if any of our goals are to
just be our best self for thosethat we love, the way that we do
that is to actually reclaim ourtime, our energy, our focus and
our lives.
And so a life by design and theway I created it is taking into
(13:57):
account the parts of us thatreally matter the most.
What our strengths are our truecharacter strengths, what we're
naturally good at and youpicked up on my humor, so that
is a top character strength forme, and that's actually one of
the reasons that I started toshift away from more of the
clinical focus was because Ifelt like in this coaching world
(14:18):
, where all things felt possible, open and not constrained by a
particular process, that I couldbe more me.
And so I realized that as Iwent into more of a coaching
model of clients, my strengthsgot to be more highlighted,
which brought my best self out,which allowed my clients to
succeed even more because I'mbringing my best to the table.
(14:41):
So we talk about what I callyour inner compass, or your
North star.
It's your strengths, yourvalues, what matters most to you
, that so many of us lose touchwith because we put others
values ahead of ours.
And then, thirdly, our desires,and this is usually the muted
version of many women.
(15:01):
What are?
What do I like, what do I want?
I don't even know anymore, andthat's not uncommon.
So if that's how you're feeling, you're not alone.
But when we take those threepieces, this trifecta your
strengths, your values, yourdesires we marry them together
and we map out what I call theroadmap of your life by design.
(15:22):
We roadmap your next chapter sothat it is actually a true
reflection of how you wanted tofeel when you started following
all the conditioned paths ofsuccess.
That's how you wanted to feelis what we create.
What many people don't realizeand I'm sure you've talked about
this, but what we're reallypursuing isn't the next thing,
(15:46):
it's not the next position, role, scaling the business, getting
the new house, getting the newstatus symbol.
It's really about a feeling.
We're pursuing a feeling.
We can collapse time bycreating that feeling now, in
the present, and not convincingourselves that we can't have
(16:08):
that because that would take atotal overhaul of our lives.
But we start incrementallyroadmapping out our happiest
next chapter.
That's when we actually get tosee results much faster.
So that is what a life bydesign is.
It's truly about givingyourself permission to step into
the driver's seat, to get outof the passenger seat of your
life, to put your fear in thepassenger seat and to go boldly
(16:30):
and courageously forward,regardless of what your old
beliefs may have told you aretrue.
Mary (16:36):
Yeah Well, and you talking about you know, sort of
pivoting to coaching that is.
I mean, I love that there's somany definitions of coaching,
but when somebody comes frombeing trained in the mental
health field and then takes thisroute, I think it's awesome
because I understand what yousay.
When you say you can be more ofyourself, there's so many rules
(16:59):
around therapy which thereshould be, but it's really all
about the client and it still isin coaching.
But you get to really show theclient who you are.
I think so much more and Ithink we can be so much more
effective sometimes when we takethat role.
(17:21):
So the one thing that I'mthinking sitting here and I'm
thinking of people listening tothis and feeling that feeling of
overwhelm and thinking, wendy,like how the hell am I supposed
to take time to start to look atthese things in my life?
So when you have somebody who'scoming because I'm sure you
(17:41):
hear that, because we think lifehappens to us, right, but it
happens through us so whenthere's somebody who is like how
would I even start to do that?
What would you say to them?
Wendy (17:53):
Audit your time.
Just let the facts speak forthemselves.
Audit your time.
Take 48 hours, 72 hours, andwrite down everything you do
from morning to night for threestraight days.
There's no.
Just start there.
Just start with data collection.
Just start by gatheringinformation and looking at that
information and asking yourselfa couple of key questions like
(18:16):
was that time well spent?
According to me, what I value,who I am, how I want to spend my
time did that align with it?
Why or why not?
For example, I might noticethat 30 to 60 minutes of a day
was spent cooking.
Now, I don't love to cook.
However, it is a value of mineto be the cook of the family, to
(18:40):
share with my children whatit's like to be home, making
food together, talking together,having that experience.
It's not about the cookingwhich I don't really love or
enjoy.
It's so messy and it'sconfusing.
There's so much pressure for mychildren to like it, and so
there's that piece of it.
But there is a question I'd askmyself Is that a good use of my
(19:17):
time or is that how I wouldwant to spend my time, generally
speaking?
Zoomed out lens how much timeare you scrolling?
How much time are you justchecking emails over and over
again.
How much time are you using inways that don't actually support
the way you want to feel?
In a day, you will be, eyeswide open, shocked how much time
we actually spend doing thingsthat don't align with the
(19:38):
version of us we want to be.
And let's say you're notscrolling and you say to me
Wendy, I don't spend any time onsocial media and all my apps
are deleted and I'm just so busywith all my obligations and
responsibilities, to which Iwould say look at those
responsibilities.
Are we saying yes too much?
Are those yeses aligned withhow you want to spend your time?
So, for example, yes is alignedwith how you want to spend your
(20:00):
time.
So, for example, I have threechildren.
There are a plentitude ofopportunities for me to
volunteer at school and to helpand to give of my time, and I do
, however, very selectively.
When I scroll down the list ofvolunteer opportunities and I
see one that says bring incupcakes, I'm like got it.
(20:21):
When I see one that says checkthe lost and found for any
kiddos name so we can get itback to their right classroom,
I'm on it.
When I see volunteering thatsays you know, create this craft
and do this thing and come infor it.
I'm not there, I'm not going.
So we can still live lives thatare aligned with what matters
(20:43):
most to us, but there has to bea level of discernment with our
commitments in order for us toprotect our energy, our spirit,
our zest and our joy.
And that's just the bottom line.
So it's not a matter of nothaving enough time, but too many
of us are saying yes to thingsthat do not reflect how we truly
want to feel and what ourvalues are, because we don't
(21:03):
want to disappoint people, letpeople down whatever it is, and
not enough time actually likefilling our own cup and lighting
ourselves up.
I posted last night on socialthat I got in the tub, and I
often get in the tub and it'sjust the best little place in
the world and it's nowhere fancyand it doesn't cost anything
and it's just a little space formyself.
But it's one of those things Iwill get comments in the DMs of
(21:24):
like, how do you have time for abubble bath?
How did you do?
And I think to myself there'sno alternative to me that life
doesn't have the spaciousness,the freedom, the flow.
Otherwise I'm not going to behappy, and neither will those
around me, because I'll be justa grumpy old lady.
Mary (21:46):
I did see your bubble bath picture, did you?
Yeah, did you think to yourself?
I was looking at it, I was like, oh, and it looked like you had
a little bit of a tan on yourknees.
Wendy (21:55):
So, anyway, I did and I love the way the light came in
and I was like, oh, look at mytan knees, all the things,
they're bad.
Mary (22:01):
A bad mom a bad, human and the idea of worthiness.
So when you see this list, as aparent of all the activities at
(22:29):
school, I'm going to guess andI don't know your husband at all
, I'm going to generalize to menmen would not look at that list
and feel like they needed to goin and do a craft or feel bad
if they didn't go in and do acraft.
We have a different template inour brains, but it is a set of
beliefs that are just false.
Wendy (22:49):
True, yeah, it's true.
And so then that's where thequestion becomes what do I want
to believe?
Because instead of justcarrying these beliefs that just
seem like they're ingrained sothey must be true my husband
yesterday volunteered to do thepickup the drop off.
(23:09):
The pickup, the drop off he'slike you, just get your stuff
done whatever you want to do.
And it was funny because Inoticed this thought in my head
that just popped right in thatsaid well, he's doing all this
extra stuff.
I should dot, dot, dot, Ishould do this, and then I
should do that, because if he'sdoing this, then I want to make
sure I'm carrying my side.
And then it was this funnyautomatic dialogue.
(23:32):
And then I stopped myself, ofcourse, and I just said there's
no should here.
The question is, how do I wantto spend time?
And at 8 pm tonight, when we'reback together as a family, how
do I want to feel?
That's the question.
The question is what should Ido?
Because if he's this, then I'mthis.
Stop tethering yourself tosomething external to you as
(23:52):
your reason to do it.
This is a really big, pivotalpiece for people to really get
this idea that what they'redoing means I'm supposed to do
something in response to becausewhat she's doing, I'm supposed
to, that doesn't exist.
Ask yourself how do I want tofeel?
And so, yes, I cooked thedinner, I cleaned the kitchen
and I did some laundry, and Idid those things but not because
(24:13):
I should, because he's helping.
I did them because what I wantto feel when my family walks
back in the door is like I didmy piece.
I did things that made me feelproductive and good.
I checked things off the listand now I'm free to snuggle and
relax and hang out together andnot be the busy mom.
So you know, consumed by thenext thing to do before bedtime.
(24:34):
I wanted to feel present, andso that drive came from the
place of how do I want to feel.
I want to feel present when thegirls get home.
All right, what will help me dothat?
To get some stuff done and thento take a bath.
Mary (24:46):
Yes, Well, I love that you said that you started to have
those automatic thoughts,because I think also there's a
misunderstanding that when youdo the work, you do that you're
above all of that programmingand you're not, and that's what
makes you good at what you do,because you recognize we all
(25:06):
struggle with similar things.
So I love that.
Wendy (25:11):
That's right, and we can't stop the thoughts,
especially those that have beenaround a while.
We can't stop thoughts in theirtracks, but we can notice them
and we get to choose how werespond to them.
Do I want to believe this?
Do I want this thought toguiding or leading my decision
right now?
Or is there something elseavailable to me that I could
choose to think or hook into, toguide my choices and my
(25:33):
decisions?
So the awareness piece isreally key.
It's not like no one's above it.
And people would say to me andthis is a common question back
in the day it was just howyou're a positive psychologist,
which basically I just made upthe words.
It's not really a thing.
You're a positive psychologistLike what does that mean?
Like you're always happy.
And I just thought, huh, whatan interesting thing that people
(25:54):
would think that your titlemeans that's who you are.
Since when do our you knowroles or career titles actually
reflect exactly who we areNumber one, number two.
That's not what positivepsychology is anyway.
So people misunderstand it andthink it's this Pollyanna
approach to life rose coloredglasses, everything's great.
Just put on a smile, it's notthat bad.
It talks with positivity.
(26:15):
Stuff used to come out aroundthe COVID time.
That's exactly why peoplemisunderstand this work.
This is work.
This is gritty, it's not sexyall the time.
Most of the time it's kind oflike rote and repeated and right
.
It's just what we know, we knowscience about habit change,
(26:35):
behavior change, belief, mindsetchange.
So it's not going to be thiskind of exciting thing all the
time and people think, oh, itmust be, you must be so happy
and so positive and all thethings, and it's.
That's not the truth, just realpeople doing real things.
But we just respond differently.
Mary (26:51):
Yeah, there's an idea that if you find that you read the
perfect quote or you see theperfect meme on social media
bing like you're just happy,then it changes the whole life.
And it doesn't.
It's an intentional.
What you're talking about isvery intentionally observing
your life.
Wendy (27:11):
And participating, yeah, and taking back it almost the
way I would describe it in thebeginning.
For people especially because alot of women that come into my
world feel what they're longingfor is the how how do I get
there?
I know I want something betterthan this.
They may not know what, theyjust know it needs to be
different than this.
And how do I get there?
And so that's a big piece thatwe talk about, obviously, but
(27:35):
one of the parts of the how isbasically getting into a car
that doesn't have power steering.
So it's a very deliberate, it'sa very intentional shift back
to the work, back to theself-awareness, back to the
interventions we talk about, andit's not going to feel organic
or natural in the beginning byany means.
(27:55):
So it is extremely intentionaland deliberate, and it's not all
shiny and fun and exciting,although the backdrop is like
the overall picture of whatwe're going for is optimizing
our lives and ourselves.
But that doesn't mean it's notgoing to take some elbow grease,
so to speak.
Mary (28:20):
Yeah, and it makes me think about the journey that I
took after I left the full-timeworld of therapy and I'm trying
to, you know, doing the podcast,and I just finished the first
draft of a book and you'refiguring out how to kind of
segue to coaching.
I think when I'll go back towhat you said about people, 40
clients a week is a lot.
So that really I feel like thatis such a giving of yourself.
(28:42):
And as you make this turn, it'sthinking about what lights me
up what kind of work do I wantto do that really accommodates
the things that I want in mylife?
And I know the mistake I made isI looked at what everybody else
was doing.
Oh, I have to do this emailfunnel and I have to do this
thing, and I got to make acourse and so I did all the
(29:04):
things but inside it didn't feelright.
But I think it was a whole likewhen the whole landscape is
open, it's like what do you do?
So I think people make themistake of looking at other
people on social media and, justlike they did with your little
post about taking a bath, theylook at that and think, oh, that
must be her life, all the time,and it's not it's not how it
(29:25):
works Right and must be nice,right.
Wendy (29:28):
People will say that must be nice.
You'll see those reels goingaround which I love, must be
nice to do, do, do.
And then you, they show thehard work that goes into it.
You know, we just assume somuch at first glance.
Also, though, in all fairnessto my followers on social, I
don't actually share muchbesides the positive the design
(29:49):
piece.
I don't share much of the behindthe scenes thought process
around the shoulds or the, and Iand I want to share more of
that because, in all truth, andI want to share more of that
because, in all truth, I forgetabout it so fast.
So when I have those moments,those fleeting thoughts that
come in and out, I don't think,oh, I should post this or I
(30:11):
should create a thing and Ishould share this so that women
understand that no one's aboveit and no one's safe from it,
and no matter if you're anexpert or not, you're relatable.
But I forget about it so fastbecause I'm on to the next thing
that I don't.
So it's a nice reminder of theimportance of sharing a bit more
of that other side of thereality, because often I'm
focused on.
Oh my gosh, I need to showwomen what's possible, what's
(30:32):
possible, what's possible.
So I show the good and thegreat and then I don't think, oh
, share the struggle or thechallenge or the resilience you
know creating moments.
I just think I want them to seewhat's possible and that's
where I get really hooked in.
Mary (30:47):
Yeah, and I think that part is important, because
mindset and you know, showingwhat's possible.
But I think you're right thatit's.
There is this idea that forsome people there is this idea
that for some people it's easyand for all of us it doesn't
matter whether we work, doingthis work or not.
It's intentional and there aredays where you don't feel at the
(31:12):
top of your game.
So I want to talk aboutstrengths because I think it's
interesting.
I have my clients do an intakeform and one of the questions on
there is what are yourstrengths, what are you good at?
And it is the most skippedquestion, the one that most
people don't answer.
So it seems to me that peoplereally have a hard time shifting
(31:34):
from that idea of well, hereare the issues I have, here's
where I'm not happy too, oh, buthere are the things that I
enjoy and that I'm good at.
Do you find that in your work?
Wendy (31:46):
It's a really interesting question.
It had me thinking about whereis my strength necklace?
Oh, here it is.
So, oh, where's my little tag?
I gotta show you my little, myadorable little tag.
I think I put it in some fancyholder the other day when I was
organizing my new office space,but I keep my strengths, as you
can see if I wasn't in a newoffice.
(32:07):
Okay, here they are.
I keep my strengths right herein this little envelope.
And so what will?
What I believe will help yourclients answer that question and
not skip it is to actually havethem do the VIA character
strength assessment.
Yes, when we ask people anopen-ended question, especially
women, what are you good atRight?
(32:29):
It's like I don't know Like Ican make a good lasagna, I don't
know.
Jam, maybe.
Jam, maybe a couple of babiesit puts us in this deer in
headlights experience where it'slike okay, no, that's like way
too big of a question.
A lot of times we feel easilyoverwhelmed by some of the
(32:51):
bigger questions.
And then when you're askingwomen to kind of brag about
themselves not that that's whatthe point of the question, but
that's how it's perceived it cancause that shutdown's what the
point of the question, butthat's how it's perceived.
It can cause that shutdownbecause now the fear is that
whatever they put down, is itgoing to be judged or evaluated.
Instead, if they do the VIAcharacter strengths assessment,
we can include a link to that inthe show notes.
Your audience can do their ownassessment.
(33:12):
It's a totally free assessment,but I have all my clients do
this when we're starting out,especially my one-to-one work.
Do this and then this is yourguide, and then I do the values
assessment with them and I keepthis as a as a another marker of
am I on the right track?
So we have less difficultyanswering questions when
(33:34):
questions are a little easier tounderstand and to just pick a
dot.
You know, answer a questionmultiple choice style versus
this big thing.
Because, much to your point,we're not thinking every day
like, oh, what are my strengthsand where do I shine and what am
I good at?
And let me just like givemyself a pat on the back for
doing this.
It's not how we're wired.
But when we know how to answerthe question and then our
(33:57):
strengths are essentiallypopulated for us, we're like, oh
, yeah, okay, yeah, I get thatRight.
You know humor, number four outof my five character strengths
yeah, okay, that makes sense.
Right, or zest, I'm notnaturally just excited person
about life.
Oh, that makes sense.
That that's who I am.
So when you have clients do itthis way, you have women have
(34:17):
access to tools that allow themto take away the wide open space
of deer and headlights we canmake some really fun realization
.
So that's where I would say,just to answer that, because I
think I was thinking well, Ihaven't really discovered that
in my work and this is probablywhy it's because I'm not asking
(34:38):
that open-ended, as much as I'msaying do this assessment, we'll
know exactly what yourstrengths are.
Mary (34:42):
That's a great point and it makes me think about also the
concept of values.
So I think that's alsosomething where, when you say
what do you value, people mightsay, well, I value family or
what are some?
There's a lot of, there's ahuge list of values if you look
at all kinds of values.
So what are some things thatpeople might consider when
(35:04):
they're thinking about okay,what are my values?
Wendy (35:08):
To do the values card sort that I do with my clients
so that again it's less of this100 word list of values.
And then you're sitting therejust thinking I don't know.
They all seem kind of important.
There's a process that you cango through to help you sort
through your values and to makecategories and to break it down
(35:30):
and to funnel it down until youget to your top five core values
.
So that process again, when westart to take out the piece of
resistance that is, not knowing,not having anything to tether
it to the context, doesn't makea lot of sense.
We're overwhelmed by the numberof choices we have.
This is why I only like to shopat Trader Joe's.
(35:51):
There's too many choices at anymajor grocery store and I hate
it.
It's overwhelming.
But take me to Trader Joe's andI'm like if it's not here, I
don't need it.
I tell myself that.
So when we really allowourselves to go from broad to
more narrow, it's so much easierto be like that's right.
Purpose is my top value,genuineness is my value,
(36:12):
autonomy is my value.
It makes sense.
And then you're asking yourself, essentially, does my life
reflect these?
And we should give?
I'm just thinking I have a freepurpose planner worksheet that
actually highlights strengthsand values, desires, and you go
through this monthly so that youcan stay connected to where you
want to go.
(36:32):
We should create a link forthat so that your listeners can
just print it out and start toplay with this idea of okay,
let's go from broad to narrowand start to see what I want my
month to look like, especiallyas we start new months, new
years, new quarters.
It's a really great tool tomake it a little bit less
confusing.
Mary (36:53):
Yeah, I love that, okay, cool, okay.
So one of the things that wetalked about, because I love to
do the how-tos, so we've talkeda lot about how-tos, but I like
this idea of auditing.
So, really taking a second,even if you're thinking I don't
have time to write it down, takea second, jot down what you do
(37:14):
every day for three days, justto get the bird's eye view,
because I think we can think, oh, I don't really scroll that
much and then you realize, oh, Ispent five hours over three
because it is a mindless thing.
When we're overwhelmed, we tendto go towards the mindless
thing.
So are there other things tocultivate a more positive
(37:35):
mindset?
Wendy (37:38):
I love to share this very simple exercise, and it's a
really powerful one, and ittakes less than one minute once
you get used to it.
When you wake up in the morning, ask yourself a couple of
important questions about yourday.
Number one how do I want tofeel today?
(38:00):
And you must insert an emotionin the blank.
I want to feel proud, I want tofeel relaxed, I want to feel
productive, I want to feelhopeful, I want to feel peace or
whatever it is.
What.
How do I want to feel?
The second question is what isa thought that helps generate
(38:21):
that feeling for me?
What is a thought that helps mefeel that feeling essentially?
And the third question is whatis one behavior, one action I
can take today that will give methe best chance to have that
feeling as well?
So let's say you wake up andyou don't touch your phone.
Okay, yeah, they were imagininga world where you don't touch
(38:43):
your phone and you just connectwith yourself and you say how do
I want to feel today, and maybetoday's Monday, and you're like
I want to feel productive today.
Then you ask yourself what isthe thought that gives me the
best chance to feel productive?
And you'd say something likeI've got this, I've got it,
(39:03):
let's go.
That's what I would say tomyself.
Okay, great, I locked in thethought.
So I'm going to repeat that tomyself throughout the day I've
got this, let's go.
I've got this, let's go.
And I can repeat it once, I canrepeat it 1,000 times.
It's just again a marker ofintentionality around the design
of a day.
And then number three what isone action I can do today to
(39:26):
give me the best chance to feelproductive?
Oh, I'm going to write down thelist that is circling my brain
so that I know exactly what I'maccomplishing.
And if I want to add a bonusaction, I'm going to create a 30
minute, 20 minute, 10 minute,60 minute power session where
all I do is go down that listand knock as many things out
(39:47):
uninterrupted phone is in adifferent room as I can.
So this is how we actually setourselves up to not only think
positively, feel positively, butliterally align the way that
we're living with the way wewant to feel.
It's not just I want to feelhappy today, so I'm just going
to feel happy today.
You can choose that.
If you're advanced, you canjust probably choose that and
(40:09):
start to feel it.
But for the rest of us we needto connect the dots more, to
create a more all inclusiveapproach to having a great day.
For many of us it can't just bethink positive, it needs to be
tethered to reality.
So when we do that, this oneminute morning exercise can be
all you need as the reminder ofwhat you want today to be.
(40:31):
And you just insert thosereminders throughout the day and
you're good to go.
Mary (40:36):
Yeah, it's not effortless.
If somebody appears happy allthe time, there's some work that
has been done behind that andwhat you're talking about.
First of all, I love don't pickup your phone, because I
started to do that.
That's my first thing when Iwake up.
I want to reach for that phoneand I make myself take even if
it's 60 seconds and again,people might think I don't have
(40:58):
time to lay in bed.
You're not laying in bed.
You're taking 60 seconds tointentionally say I'm going to
be in this moment for a secondand let myself wake up and then
following do those things thatyou talked about, because what
starts to happen is it rewiresthe way your brain works.
Wendy (41:19):
People will often think that you know, neuroscience is
so complicated and how am I evergoing to rewire my brain and
neuroplasticity and what's that?
And it just feels it goes overa lot of people's heads, not
because they can't understand it, but because it doesn't feel
simple enough to grab onto.
(41:39):
And this is a perfect exampleof something so simple to grab
onto that is effective inrewiring the way you think and
rewiring the way you show up toyour day in your life and you
make those little, that oneshift every morning, five days,
six days, seven days in a row.
Watch your, watch your lifetransform just from this one
exercise.
Mary (41:57):
Yeah, it's simple.
I think things that are simplesometimes are really powerful,
because we think, well, whatgood is that going to do?
That's very woo-woo and itreally.
I mean, you're already oftenthinking negatively.
You know, I'm so tired, I'm sooverwhelmed.
I don't want it to be this way.
You're just putting otherthings in place of it.
That changed your outlook Right, yeah, that's right.
(42:23):
Your outlook Right, yeah,that's right.
So one thing I'm curious about,as you've been talking how do
you help your kids embrace?
Wendy (42:32):
all of this.
If only I could bring mydaytime hat into my nighttime
mothering, I would be a muchbetter mom.
I try, I try.
So funny enough, gosh, it wasjust the other day.
Oh, this is so funny.
So just the other day mydaughter, charleston, said Mom,
(42:52):
we learned about growth mindsettoday.
And it was this moment ofrealization.
This is a funny realization andI haven't really flushed it out
so you can come on the journeywith me.
It was a really funnyrealization of me thinking, yeah
, of course, like of course youknow, but what growth mindset is
(43:12):
?
Like?
You're my daughter.
But then it was thisrealization of I've never talked
to you about it.
I have my work hat and my lifehat and I live it the same.
I'm the same person here as Iam over there.
However, it's not theconversations I'm having as I
raise my children.
Yet one of my biggest complaintsin the field and in this work
(43:35):
that I do is why don't morepeople know?
Why aren't we teaching peopleyounger and younger and younger
how to lay a foundation for thegood life?
And here I am, as such, anadvocate for this.
This is my mission, and in myown home, my daughter discovers
growth mindset and I've beentalking about it forever but
never to her, and so it was areally crazy realization.
(43:57):
So an area of growth for me isto start bringing these
conversations into my home Now.
The way I'd like to do that ismaybe Sunday night class with
mom and I teach them a concept,because that just sounds fun,
and I'd love to do this, for Ithought about doing this for,
like, teen and adolescent girlsactually on a larger scale,
because we need it, they need it.
But how I really bring it in ishow I coach them in challenging
(44:23):
moments.
It in is how I coach them inchallenging moments.
So the moments they come homethey just started a new school
in a new town, in a new statewhere they know nobody, and
their courage to show up on thatfirst day is absolutely
admirable and incredible to me,and they did, and they came home
with different reactions totheir day, and so those types of
(44:43):
moments are where I step in andcoach them.
Okay, so we've got some thingsin our control.
We've got some things that arenot in our control.
What happened over the daywasn't in our control, with
so-and-so did or said, but howwe choose to one interpret what
was said and done and not done,and what we do with that
information is where we havecontrol, so I would talk to them
about that.
And what we do with thatinformation is where we have
(45:05):
control, so I would talk to themabout that.
Oh, you weren't spoken to.
Or oh, you made no friends.
Okay, here's how I want you tothink this through.
So it does come into thosetypes of conversations, but it
needs to be more of aconversation Like it's almost
like I think there's a hiddenfear.
I don't want to be thepsychologist mom.
Yeah, I don't want to be thepsychologist mom.
(45:30):
Yeah, I don't want my kids to.
And this again is a total likestory in my head.
There's there's nothing that'smade I'm.
Having the psychologist mom isan amazing opportunity, but the
way I think about a psychologistmom analyzing everything,
wanting to dive like, dive um,dive into everything, unpack
everything, process everything Idon't want to be that mom that
my kids feel like oh, here we goagain.
Mom's got to do this with usevery time.
(45:52):
We just want to have a quickcomment about something.
I want to respect their processof life and their experience of
life, and so I don't insertmyself very much, but when I do,
those are the moments whenthere's challenges, of course,
when they're asking for support.
What do I say, what do I do?
Or I'm sad about this, and westart to reframe it.
My daughter started gymnasticsat a new gym.
(46:13):
Right, we just moved here andher reaction to it was I can't
do this, I'm not strong enough.
This is not at all like myother gym.
I not at all like my other gym.
I cannot cut it.
And she felt like I'm the worston the team.
No way am I going to continue,I can't.
And I sat her down and I said toher this is simply an issue of
(46:37):
strength.
This is not a conversation aboutability.
This is strength right now.
This is not that you're notever able to be at that level.
This is about we need to catchyour strength up to where
they're performing right now.
So this is just simple math.
That's how I was seeing it.
We just need to get you to thegym.
We're going to lift someweights, we're going to do this
and that and that those areoptions to you, or you can quit
(46:59):
if you want to, because you'reintimidated and I understand you
don't want to walk back inthere and she chose the route of
strength building.
She chose it to try it on forsize to see if it worked.
And sure enough, two weekslater she literally said mom,
I'm so much stronger I can'tbelieve I can do this stuff now.
And so those moments I try toremember the tools that I use
(47:21):
with my clients as a mother, butmore often I'm just mom and I
don't insert myself a ton and Idon't bring these terms into our
conversations, and I probablycould a bit more.
Mary (47:32):
Yeah, I think you illustrate it, though.
I mean you're teaching growthmindset, you just don't label it
and I think even the life thatyou lead when we you know.
To kind of rewind back to thebeginning, we talked about women
feeling like if they're notoverwhelmed, they're not doing
something right.
But that affects your kids.
They see someone, even if youtry to hide it.
(47:55):
They are very perceptive.
So when they can see a parentwho really does this intentional
thought process, actions basedon, you know, wanting a certain
outcome, that in itself, I think, is really powerful.
Wendy (48:12):
Thank you, I think I would agree with that, but
modeling is the most important,powerful piece.
Right, it doesn't have to comedown to using the right words or
the right language, but andthat's also the difference when
you were talking a bit aboutshifting into the coaching model
, that was actually anotherpiece of it for me was coaching
really is more about theembodiment of being your best
self, so that those who comeinto your world can see that
(48:36):
you're living proof of what'spossible, which is again why I
probably share more of thepossibility versus the challenge
stuff.
So when we think about it fromthat way, it's like with our,
with my children too.
I really want to show themwhat's possible.
There's something, there's analternative to the way you're
interpreting this.
There's an alternative to theway you're thinking through this
.
Like I need to show you thisalternative.
(48:56):
I can't let you, in my in goodfaith, just grow up to like have
your stories without me tryingto snip it or stop it or or kind
of like influence it a littlebit and show them the tools.
But you're right, I'm notsaying it, but maybe I'm
modeling it.
So there is that.
It does come into motherhood,I'm sure, but there are
obviously the moments that Idon't create space between
(49:17):
stimulus and response andgirlfriend is just reacting with
my impatience.
So that happens too.
Mary (49:24):
Well, yeah, and I think we're made to compare ourselves.
So when your daughter went intothis new experience with
gymnastics, she's looking aroundlike I'm not cut out for this.
You're able to reframe that,that it's about something
different than what you thinkthis is about, and that then,
just without you observing like,see, we're putting a different
(49:45):
frame on it, or where it's sureshe will then be able to think
more that way, just naturally.
So that's where I also wantpeople to see because many women
do have children and have thisimpact on them that if you have
trouble wanting to embrace,working with you or working with
a coach to live a life that youfeel fulfilled, if you need a
(50:10):
little bit of a different reason, think about how you show up
for your family, because thereis a big impact on that and that
might make some people feellike, oh okay, there's actually
another part of this.
If it's hard for somebody tojust step into that space as an
individual woman.
Wendy (50:28):
Sure, I think, yeah, you know, looking into our own
motivators, our own drive, ourvalues and that's a big thing
that does motivate us right ispain.
So when we are living a lifethat is not in line with our
values, we feel it which I calllike hit, like we hit the rumble
strip.
We're on the highway, we thinkwe're doing all the things, and
(50:48):
then we hit the rumble strip,which is the discontent, which
is the dissatisfaction with life, which is the languishing,
which is the waking up exhaustedor depleted, and that rumble
strip is the reminder that weneed to reconnect with what we
value.
And if your values are how youshow up for other people and how
they receive you and how youexperience your relationships,
which is obviously the numberone predictor of happiness, the
(51:12):
quality of your relationshipsmatters so much.
It's a great reason to be in asupportive environment with
somebody who can lead youthrough it.
I think the other piece thattends to be pretty motivating
for people is when we get sickand tired of being sick and
tired.
A lot of people wait too longuntil it's, you know, the 11th
hour to desperately seek support, but it's like when you're kind
of just tired of going aroundwhat I call the mulberry bush
(51:34):
and we're just going around themulberry bush again and we're
the same patterns and the sameresults and the same
frustrations time and time again.
We need to give ourselves justthe opportunity to consider an
alternative Like what if I wasin an environment that actually
laid a foundation for momentumand purpose building and
accountability and actuallyconnecting yourself to growth,
(51:57):
instead of just telling yourselfI just need to do this on my
own?
Mary (52:00):
Yeah, and we wait often till our bodies get involved,
till we're sick or, like yousaid, the 11th hour where it's
like, oh, now I have to dosomething.
So I think let's preempt thatand take some action now.
And you've given so many greatinsights and options today, and
I will link the things that wetalked about in the show notes
(52:22):
so, before we end, can youreview for us where to find you
and what you offer?
Wendy (52:29):
The best place to find me is Instagram, at Dr Wendy
O'Connor.
Come say hi, introduce yourself.
I love that.
I'm on everything right now,all platforms, but that's really
the place I hang out the most.
And I have an upcoming freemasterclass coming up called the
Fierce Finishers, which is forwomen who do not want to coast
to the end of the year and theyreally want to end 2025 feeling
(52:50):
proud and that they made thechanges they thought they would
make in January and at the endof the year, feeling that sense
of connection to power, strength, results, just proving to
themselves they've got this.
So I have that coming up.
And then I have what's calledThrive 75, which is going to be
a 75-day accountability programto keep you on track with
(53:14):
overcoming self-doubt, pokinginto the right mindset and
having the habits build fordesigning your life.
So I have a couple of funthings in the works, but also,
of course, some women are justlike I don't want any of the
group stuff.
I want to do my own thing withyou.
Of course, you can also reachout to me about those
opportunities too.
Mary (53:31):
Oh, I love all of that.
I love the Thrive 75.
Wendy (53:34):
It's going to be really fun yeah.
Mary (53:36):
Well, thank you so much for being here.
I really appreciate it Thankyou.
Wendy (53:40):
Mary, thank you, I loved being here.
Mary (53:42):
And I want to thank everyone for listening.
I would love so much if youtake a second to scroll to the
bottom of the show page and giveme a quick rating, and if you
have an extra minute, leave acomment.
And I want to tell you I'm sothrilled that y'all are the
reason that I hit the top 10% ofpodcasts globally.
So please help other women findme and my content and, until
(54:03):
next time, go out into the worldand be the amazing, resilient,
vibrant violet that you are.
Thank you.
Welcome to no Shrinking Violence.
I'm your host, mary Rothwell,licensed therapist and certified
integrative mental healthpractitioner.
I've created a space where wecelebrate the intuition and
power of women who want to breakfree from limiting narratives.
We'll explore all realms ofwellness, what it means to take
up space unapologetically, andhow your essential nature is key
(00:28):
to living life on your terms.
It's time to own your space,trust your nature and flourish.
Let's dive in.
Hey Violets, welcome to theshow.
In my work with clients, I oftenstart from the framework of
positive psychology.
In a sense, this is swimmingupstream in a world where mental
(00:49):
health diagnoses frametreatment.
What I mean by that is we'reused to talking about clients or
, in the medical world, patients, in terms of what's wrong with
them.
Unfortunately, at least here inthe United States, people that
need to use insurance to obtaintreatment need a diagnosis.
Okay, let me explain a bit more, as I'll be talking about this
(01:09):
idea of positive psychology withmy guest today, and I'll focus
on mental health diagnoses,because I'm a licensed trained
therapist.
So when I get a client whoscores high on an assessment for
anxiety, or they tell me intheir consultation call before
booking that they have anxiety,I will often put that kind of to
the side in my mind with alittle asterisk, because I mean,
(01:32):
we all have anxiety and sureit's important to know, as it's
the feeling they're focused on.
But what I will explore withthem is, first, how is the
anxiety keeping them from livingtheir best life and where was
that seed planted?
And that's where I slap on thepositive psychology frame,
Because first, we're nature,which you hear me say all the
(01:53):
time, and second, we adapt toour environment based on our
genetic code.
First.
Okay so adult anxiety typically, but not always, started as a
role you had in your family.
Example I have a late brotherwho had both mental health and
addiction issues and as a kidwho was eight years younger than
him, I was often the target ofhis abuse.
(02:15):
I could have handled that inmany ways.
I could have acted out to getmore of my parents' attention.
I could have developed physicalissues unconsciously that
forced adults to increase theirfocus on my needs, or I could
have recognized that I needed toprotect myself from danger and
vacate the building.
Guess which one I chose?
I fled.
That was my natural tendency.
(02:36):
We all react by fighting,fleeing, freezing or, more
complex, fawning.
I would go to the woods or losemyself in a book, and I for
sure grew into an adult thatdidn't trust others to take care
of me and who, during my datingyears, could spot the smell and
actions of a problem drinker amile away.
So what does that have to dowith positive psychology?
(02:58):
Well, what was my strength?
Inner resiliency andself-protection.
But here's where it gets tricky.
Often, people end up in myoffice when the instinctive
method of survival our strengthsoften become our weaknesses.
Using a frame of positivepsychology helps to recognize
that first, no one is broken.
You acted based on what madesense at the time, but now
(03:20):
something like a learnedbehavior doing everything
yourself because you don't trustanyone else can certainly
impact the depth ofrelationships, for example.
Okay, so my guest today is WendyO'Connor, and she uses positive
psychology to help womenup-level their success and
happiness.
Oh, and I follow her on socialmedia and her energy and humor
(03:41):
are amazing.
I'm looking forward so much toexploring positive psychology
and all the other things withher.
So let me give you a quickintro and we will get to it.
Dr Wendy is a Stanford-trainedpositive psychologist and
success coach.
She helps women design theirmost meaningful, intentional and
fulfilling lives.
Utilizing her evidence-basedsuccess method, dr Wendy has
(04:02):
helped thousands of womenworldwide live a life they are
obsessed with.
Welcome to no Shrinking Violets, wendy.
Wendy (04:09):
Thank you so much, Mary.
I can't wait to have thisconversation with you today.
Mary (04:14):
All right.
So I always start with havingmy guests tell us a little bit
about their own life hurdlesthat inspired them to pursue the
work that they do.
So what are, what do you feellike are the most important
parts of your story?
Wendy (04:29):
I would say the most important parts start back in
seventh grade when my professorof psychology at the time so
this is middle school introducedthe concept of having a career
in psychology and what peoplewho pursue psychology degrees
can do with it.
And one of the things that shehad said was you could be a
(04:52):
clinical psychologist, you couldhave a practice, and people
come to you because they'reupset or sad or struggling or
having some challenges in theirlives.
They need support.
And I immediately thought tomyself this is what I want to do
for my life.
This is what I want to do formy life.
This is what I want to do formy career.
It's a no brainer.
I already do this for myfriends, for free.
I can get paid to help peoplefeel better.
(05:13):
Like this is so like.
Why isn't everybody like tryingto grab for the spot of
clinical psychologists right now?
And I?
That was where the seed wasplanted and it never departed.
It's so odd to me that at thattime I felt such a connection
(05:34):
with this concept of pursuingpsych from a.
I can help people hang ashingle, have a nice, sweet
little boutique practice andjust feel like.
It just made me feel excitedand happy at the time imagining
it.
So that was, that was chapterone for me of a pivotal moment.
Looking back now at the time, Ididn't really see it.
But looking back now whenpeople say, like, how did you
become a psychologist?
Or why are you a psychologist?
(05:55):
A lot of us have challenges anda lot of us have adversity in
our history, and that wasabsolutely the case for me as
well.
And so as I look back to howchallenging childhood was for me
, with my anxiety and with myhome environment, I'm like, oh,
of course I did, like I wasreally just a genuinely curious
(06:15):
human who wanted to understandhow this was my life, and I
didn't really realize that formany years after.
But seventh grade was a momentFast forward to me, completing
my doctorate in clinical psych,hanging my shingle, much like I
had planned, making jam andbabies, much like I had planned,
and then I discover that I amgoing to go from my first baby
(06:41):
to three babies within two years.
So I have my first child.
When she was six months old, Iwas pregnant with twins, and all
three girls under two, allthree in diapers, was a season
of life.
That, of course, I didn'tanticipate and wasn't whatever
prepared means wasn't preparedfor.
(07:01):
But you rise, you just do whatyou need to do to figure it out.
And it was wonderful in so manyways.
But one of the major ways that Istarted to feel really
disconnected from my own innerjoy was burnout, feeling really
burnt out.
I was seeing 40 patients a weekin a four-day schedule, back to
back to back, which when I wasyounger it was fine.
(07:23):
But as soon as I had thesechildren and my energy was just
being zapped and zapped, andzapped, it was really difficult
for me to give to my patientsand then to come home with
anything in the reserve for myfamily, namely my husband.
Because I'll never forget theday I came home from work.
I'm like walk through the door,so excited to see the babies,
(07:45):
and he said to me like have youeven looked at me today?
And I was thinking I don't, Idon't think so.
Was I supposed to miss the lookat your husband, memo?
I was so tapped that it wentfrom patients to babies and
that's all I had in me and Ithought, wow, this is such a
wake up moment.
I'm not thrilled.
(08:06):
Every day I'm feeling dread,I'm having the Sunday scaries.
I've never had those before,and I started to say something's
got to change.
And I know I wanted to stayconnected to the work that I'm
so passionate about.
This is my life, this is mymission, this is what I'm meant
to do.
It's my purpose Helping peoplethrive in the ways that I like
(08:27):
to do it.
This is the way I'm meant to beliving in my life.
However, I didn't feel like thatfor a while and I was saying to
myself at the time, and Iliterally was saying these words
in my head I'm not like, I'mnot meant to just survive this
life.
Are we just surviving this life?
What is going on?
I'm not thriving at all.
And so then I started toexplore how to thrive, because
(08:49):
my work in clinical psych upuntil this point was all about
recovery from anxiety, recoveryfrom depression, taking you from
a place of really struggling tosurviving, to being able to
function, to hold your job, tohold your relationships.
And there is this other worldthat I've never really tapped
into, and it wasn't until I hadmy own self-awareness.
Moment of this can't be as goodas it gets, can it?
(09:11):
Like I did all the right things?
And here I am.
Why am I waking up exhaustedand depleted.
So I pursued positive psychology.
I found the science ofhappiness and thought I can't
believe there's a science tohappiness.
This is the coolest thing everfor a science-backed
practitioner and dove into it.
And then that just became mypath to success and happiness.
(09:32):
And I said this is exactly whatwomen are needing Specifically
I focus on women, but it appliesto everybody.
But I felt like this is exactlywhat women are needing.
We're following theseconditioned paths of checking
the boxes, going through themotions, doing the right thing,
pursuing success However theworld defines it for us, and
(09:53):
waking up one day saying is thisreally as good as it gets?
How can this be?
And that was that aha moment ofjust realizing the science of
happiness is available to all ofus If we just are more aware of
the tools that will allow us toflourish.
Life could be so much better byour design.
(10:14):
But so many of us are not awareyet and still continue to check
the boxes, languish, go throughthe motions, live on default
and then wonder why we'reunhappy.
So those are the pivotalmoments of my story that got me
here, because first it was thisclinical desire and then it was
this coaching focus, because Iwanted to work well beyond
(10:38):
survival.
I wanted to get people reallyto a place of waking up, excited
for their days, putting theirfeet on the ground and saying,
oh my God, I can't wait for thisday.
That was my goal.
Mary (10:48):
Yeah, well, there's a couple things you said.
First, when you said you saw 40clients in four days, I got
like I felt sick in my stomachbecause I that you know, doing
the work, it's you have to be sofocused.
So I just think about the work,it's you have to be so focused.
So I just think about what thatwas like for you to do that and
(11:09):
then be a mom and a wife,because, yeah, that's part of it
Sometimes slips to the bottomof the list, so that's amazing.
But you know, when I was trainedquite a bit before you,
positive psychology wasn't evena thing yet, and when it started
to be a thing, it was this woo,woo.
Why are we focusing on feelinggood?
Because we're so much about,I'll just say, united States,
(11:30):
we're so much about figuring outwhat's wrong with us, and I
think women do that so much morebecause we're very aware of our
inner landscape and so we feela certain way or we, like you
just articulated, we have a job,we have children, we have a
family, and I don't know if youreally did make jam, but that's
an endeavor too, I did make jam.
Wendy (11:53):
And then I realized this is not as fun as I thought.
Forget it, but it was a goal.
The vision of my life was Iwant to make jam and babies and
have a small private practiceand life.
That's all I need and want.
And then you do all the thingsand jam wasn't always cut out to
be in my mind.
The private practice wasincredibly successful.
I had two practices, thrivingpractices and.
(12:14):
But we think the goal is moreor excess, or being full or at
capacity, and then we realizethere's cost to that and
consequence to that and we don'trealize typically until we get
to that place.
Yeah, and then we realizethere's cost to that and
consequence to that, and wedon't realize typically until we
get to that place.
Mary (12:27):
Yeah, and you talked about design.
So I feel like sometimes we aswomen get to this point and we
think this is how it's supposedto feel.
It's supposed to feeloverwhelming, and that means
we're doing all the things we'resupposed to do.
So pivot a little bit and talkabout what do you mean when you
talk about life by design?
Wendy (12:48):
It's my favorite thing to talk about.
So let's do it, because this isreally where we get to shift
our thinking from it's so hardto it gets to be light.
And I say this to my clientsall the time, and in the
beginning especially, I kind ofget the eye roll, and that's
okay because I know eventuallyit does sink in and it does
(13:10):
become their reality.
But we have this ingrainedacceptance of it's supposed to
feel hard and I'm supposed to bebusy, and busyness is a badge
of honor, and I'm supposed to beoverexerting myself and saying
yes to everything and boundarieswould make me the B word and I
just this is how it is, this ismy lot, this is how we do and
(13:34):
the reality is it's BS.
And if our goal is, if any ofour goals are to just be our
best self for those that we love, if any of our goals are to
just be our best self for thosethat we love, the way that we do
that is to actually reclaim ourtime, our energy, our focus and
our lives.
And so a life by design and theway I created it is taking into
(13:57):
account the parts of us thatreally matter the most.
What our strengths are our truecharacter strengths, what we're
naturally good at and youpicked up on my humor, so that
is a top character strength forme, and that's actually one of
the reasons that I started toshift away from more of the
clinical focus was because Ifelt like in this coaching world
(14:18):
, where all things felt possible, open and not constrained by a
particular process, that I couldbe more me.
And so I realized that as Iwent into more of a coaching
model of clients, my strengthsgot to be more highlighted,
which brought my best self out,which allowed my clients to
succeed even more because I'mbringing my best to the table.
(14:41):
So we talk about what I callyour inner compass, or your
North star.
It's your strengths, yourvalues, what matters most to you
, that so many of us lose touchwith because we put others
values ahead of ours.
And then, thirdly, our desires,and this is usually the muted
version of many women.
(15:01):
What are?
What do I like, what do I want?
I don't even know anymore, andthat's not uncommon.
So if that's how you're feeling, you're not alone.
But when we take those threepieces, this trifecta your
strengths, your values, yourdesires we marry them together
and we map out what I call theroadmap of your life by design.
(15:22):
We roadmap your next chapter sothat it is actually a true
reflection of how you wanted tofeel when you started following
all the conditioned paths ofsuccess.
That's how you wanted to feelis what we create.
What many people don't realizeand I'm sure you've talked about
this, but what we're reallypursuing isn't the next thing,
(15:46):
it's not the next position, role, scaling the business, getting
the new house, getting the newstatus symbol.
It's really about a feeling.
We're pursuing a feeling.
We can collapse time bycreating that feeling now, in
the present, and not convincingourselves that we can't have
(16:08):
that because that would take atotal overhaul of our lives.
But we start incrementallyroadmapping out our happiest
next chapter.
That's when we actually get tosee results much faster.
So that is what a life bydesign is.
It's truly about givingyourself permission to step into
the driver's seat, to get outof the passenger seat of your
life, to put your fear in thepassenger seat and to go boldly
(16:30):
and courageously forward,regardless of what your old
beliefs may have told you aretrue.
Mary (16:36):
Yeah Well, and you talking about you know, sort of
pivoting to coaching that is.
I mean, I love that there's somany definitions of coaching,
but when somebody comes frombeing trained in the mental
health field and then takes thisroute, I think it's awesome
because I understand what yousay.
When you say you can be more ofyourself, there's so many rules
(16:59):
around therapy which thereshould be, but it's really all
about the client and it still isin coaching.
But you get to really show theclient who you are.
I think so much more and Ithink we can be so much more
effective sometimes when we takethat role.
(17:21):
So the one thing that I'mthinking sitting here and I'm
thinking of people listening tothis and feeling that feeling of
overwhelm and thinking, wendy,like how the hell am I supposed
to take time to start to look atthese things in my life?
So when you have somebody who'scoming because I'm sure you
(17:41):
hear that, because we think lifehappens to us, right, but it
happens through us so whenthere's somebody who is like how
would I even start to do that?
What would you say to them?
Wendy (17:53):
Audit your time.
Just let the facts speak forthemselves.
Audit your time.
Take 48 hours, 72 hours, andwrite down everything you do
from morning to night for threestraight days.
There's no.
Just start there.
Just start with data collection.
Just start by gatheringinformation and looking at that
information and asking yourselfa couple of key questions like
(18:16):
was that time well spent?
According to me, what I value,who I am, how I want to spend my
time did that align with it?
Why or why not?
For example, I might noticethat 30 to 60 minutes of a day
was spent cooking.
Now, I don't love to cook.
However, it is a value of mineto be the cook of the family, to
(18:40):
share with my children whatit's like to be home, making
food together, talking together,having that experience.
It's not about the cookingwhich I don't really love or
enjoy.
It's so messy and it'sconfusing.
There's so much pressure for mychildren to like it, and so
there's that piece of it.
But there is a question I'd askmyself Is that a good use of my
(19:17):
time or is that how I wouldwant to spend my time, generally
speaking?
Zoomed out lens how much timeare you scrolling?
How much time are you justchecking emails over and over
again.
How much time are you using inways that don't actually support
the way you want to feel?
In a day, you will be, eyeswide open, shocked how much time
we actually spend doing thingsthat don't align with the
(19:38):
version of us we want to be.
And let's say you're notscrolling and you say to me
Wendy, I don't spend any time onsocial media and all my apps
are deleted and I'm just so busywith all my obligations and
responsibilities, to which Iwould say look at those
responsibilities.
Are we saying yes too much?
Are those yeses aligned withhow you want to spend your time?
So, for example, yes is alignedwith how you want to spend your
(20:00):
time.
So, for example, I have threechildren.
There are a plentitude ofopportunities for me to
volunteer at school and to helpand to give of my time, and I do
, however, very selectively.
When I scroll down the list ofvolunteer opportunities and I
see one that says bring incupcakes, I'm like got it.
(20:21):
When I see one that says checkthe lost and found for any
kiddos name so we can get itback to their right classroom,
I'm on it.
When I see volunteering thatsays you know, create this craft
and do this thing and come infor it.
I'm not there, I'm not going.
So we can still live lives thatare aligned with what matters
(20:43):
most to us, but there has to bea level of discernment with our
commitments in order for us toprotect our energy, our spirit,
our zest and our joy.
And that's just the bottom line.
So it's not a matter of nothaving enough time, but too many
of us are saying yes to thingsthat do not reflect how we truly
want to feel and what ourvalues are, because we don't
(21:03):
want to disappoint people, letpeople down whatever it is, and
not enough time actually likefilling our own cup and lighting
ourselves up.
I posted last night on socialthat I got in the tub, and I
often get in the tub and it'sjust the best little place in
the world and it's nowhere fancyand it doesn't cost anything
and it's just a little space formyself.
But it's one of those things Iwill get comments in the DMs of
(21:24):
like, how do you have time for abubble bath?
How did you do?
And I think to myself there'sno alternative to me that life
doesn't have the spaciousness,the freedom, the flow.
Otherwise I'm not going to behappy, and neither will those
around me, because I'll be justa grumpy old lady.
Mary (21:46):
I did see your bubble bath picture, did you?
Yeah, did you think to yourself?
I was looking at it, I was like, oh, and it looked like you had
a little bit of a tan on yourknees.
Wendy (21:55):
So, anyway, I did and I love the way the light came in
and I was like, oh, look at mytan knees, all the things,
they're bad.
Mary (22:01):
A bad mom a bad, human and the idea of worthiness.
So when you see this list, as aparent of all the activities at
(22:29):
school, I'm going to guess andI don't know your husband at all
, I'm going to generalize to menmen would not look at that list
and feel like they needed to goin and do a craft or feel bad
if they didn't go in and do acraft.
We have a different template inour brains, but it is a set of
beliefs that are just false.
Wendy (22:49):
True, yeah, it's true.
And so then that's where thequestion becomes what do I want
to believe?
Because instead of justcarrying these beliefs that just
seem like they're ingrained sothey must be true my husband
yesterday volunteered to do thepickup the drop off.
(23:09):
The pickup, the drop off he'slike you, just get your stuff
done whatever you want to do.
And it was funny because Inoticed this thought in my head
that just popped right in thatsaid well, he's doing all this
extra stuff.
I should dot, dot, dot, Ishould do this, and then I
should do that, because if he'sdoing this, then I want to make
sure I'm carrying my side.
And then it was this funnyautomatic dialogue.
(23:32):
And then I stopped myself, ofcourse, and I just said there's
no should here.
The question is, how do I wantto spend time?
And at 8 pm tonight, when we'reback together as a family, how
do I want to feel?
That's the question.
The question is what should Ido?
Because if he's this, then I'mthis.
Stop tethering yourself tosomething external to you as
(23:52):
your reason to do it.
This is a really big, pivotalpiece for people to really get
this idea that what they'redoing means I'm supposed to do
something in response to becausewhat she's doing, I'm supposed
to, that doesn't exist.
Ask yourself how do I want tofeel?
And so, yes, I cooked thedinner, I cleaned the kitchen
and I did some laundry, and Idid those things but not because
(24:13):
I should, because he's helping.
I did them because what I wantto feel when my family walks
back in the door is like I didmy piece.
I did things that made me feelproductive and good.
I checked things off the listand now I'm free to snuggle and
relax and hang out together andnot be the busy mom.
So you know, consumed by thenext thing to do before bedtime.
(24:34):
I wanted to feel present, andso that drive came from the
place of how do I want to feel.
I want to feel present when thegirls get home.
All right, what will help me dothat?
To get some stuff done and thento take a bath.
Mary (24:46):
Yes, Well, I love that you said that you started to have
those automatic thoughts,because I think also there's a
misunderstanding that when youdo the work, you do that you're
above all of that programmingand you're not, and that's what
makes you good at what you do,because you recognize we all
(25:06):
struggle with similar things.
So I love that.
Wendy (25:11):
That's right, and we can't stop the thoughts,
especially those that have beenaround a while.
We can't stop thoughts in theirtracks, but we can notice them
and we get to choose how werespond to them.
Do I want to believe this?
Do I want this thought toguiding or leading my decision
right now?
Or is there something elseavailable to me that I could
choose to think or hook into, toguide my choices and my
(25:33):
decisions?
So the awareness piece isreally key.
It's not like no one's above it.
And people would say to me andthis is a common question back
in the day it was just howyou're a positive psychologist,
which basically I just made upthe words.
It's not really a thing.
You're a positive psychologistLike what does that mean?
Like you're always happy.
And I just thought, huh, whatan interesting thing that people
(25:54):
would think that your titlemeans that's who you are.
Since when do our you knowroles or career titles actually
reflect exactly who we areNumber one, number two.
That's not what positivepsychology is anyway.
So people misunderstand it andthink it's this Pollyanna
approach to life rose coloredglasses, everything's great.
Just put on a smile, it's notthat bad.
It talks with positivity.
(26:15):
Stuff used to come out aroundthe COVID time.
That's exactly why peoplemisunderstand this work.
This is work.
This is gritty, it's not sexyall the time.
Most of the time it's kind oflike rote and repeated and right
.
It's just what we know, we knowscience about habit change,
(26:35):
behavior change, belief, mindsetchange.
So it's not going to be thiskind of exciting thing all the
time and people think, oh, itmust be, you must be so happy
and so positive and all thethings, and it's.
That's not the truth, just realpeople doing real things.
But we just respond differently.
Mary (26:51):
Yeah, there's an idea that if you find that you read the
perfect quote or you see theperfect meme on social media
bing like you're just happy,then it changes the whole life.
And it doesn't.
It's an intentional.
What you're talking about isvery intentionally observing
your life.
Wendy (27:11):
And participating, yeah, and taking back it almost the
way I would describe it in thebeginning.
For people especially because alot of women that come into my
world feel what they're longingfor is the how how do I get
there?
I know I want something betterthan this.
They may not know what, theyjust know it needs to be
different than this.
And how do I get there?
And so that's a big piece thatwe talk about, obviously, but
(27:35):
one of the parts of the how isbasically getting into a car
that doesn't have power steering.
So it's a very deliberate, it'sa very intentional shift back
to the work, back to theself-awareness, back to the
interventions we talk about, andit's not going to feel organic
or natural in the beginning byany means.
(27:55):
So it is extremely intentionaland deliberate, and it's not all
shiny and fun and exciting,although the backdrop is like
the overall picture of whatwe're going for is optimizing
our lives and ourselves.
But that doesn't mean it's notgoing to take some elbow grease,
so to speak.
Mary (28:20):
Yeah, and it makes me think about the journey that I
took after I left the full-timeworld of therapy and I'm trying
to, you know, doing the podcast,and I just finished the first
draft of a book and you'refiguring out how to kind of
segue to coaching.
I think when I'll go back towhat you said about people, 40
clients a week is a lot.
So that really I feel like thatis such a giving of yourself.
(28:42):
And as you make this turn, it'sthinking about what lights me
up what kind of work do I wantto do that really accommodates
the things that I want in mylife?
And I know the mistake I made isI looked at what everybody else
was doing.
Oh, I have to do this emailfunnel and I have to do this
thing, and I got to make acourse and so I did all the
(29:04):
things but inside it didn't feelright.
But I think it was a whole likewhen the whole landscape is
open, it's like what do you do?
So I think people make themistake of looking at other
people on social media and, justlike they did with your little
post about taking a bath, theylook at that and think, oh, that
must be her life, all the time,and it's not it's not how it
(29:25):
works Right and must be nice,right.
Wendy (29:28):
People will say that must be nice.
You'll see those reels goingaround which I love, must be
nice to do, do, do.
And then you, they show thehard work that goes into it.
You know, we just assume somuch at first glance.
Also, though, in all fairnessto my followers on social, I
don't actually share muchbesides the positive the design
(29:49):
piece.
I don't share much of the behindthe scenes thought process
around the shoulds or the, and Iand I want to share more of
that because, in all truth, andI want to share more of that
because, in all truth, I forgetabout it so fast.
So when I have those moments,those fleeting thoughts that
come in and out, I don't think,oh, I should post this or I
(30:11):
should create a thing and Ishould share this so that women
understand that no one's aboveit and no one's safe from it,
and no matter if you're anexpert or not, you're relatable.
But I forget about it so fastbecause I'm on to the next thing
that I don't.
So it's a nice reminder of theimportance of sharing a bit more
of that other side of thereality, because often I'm
focused on.
Oh my gosh, I need to showwomen what's possible, what's
(30:32):
possible, what's possible.
So I show the good and thegreat and then I don't think, oh
, share the struggle or thechallenge or the resilience you
know creating moments.
I just think I want them to seewhat's possible and that's
where I get really hooked in.
Mary (30:47):
Yeah, and I think that part is important, because
mindset and you know, showingwhat's possible.
But I think you're right thatit's.
There is this idea that forsome people there is this idea
that for some people it's easyand for all of us it doesn't
matter whether we work, doingthis work or not.
It's intentional and there aredays where you don't feel at the
(31:12):
top of your game.
So I want to talk aboutstrengths because I think it's
interesting.
I have my clients do an intakeform and one of the questions on
there is what are yourstrengths, what are you good at?
And it is the most skippedquestion, the one that most
people don't answer.
So it seems to me that peoplereally have a hard time shifting
(31:34):
from that idea of well, hereare the issues I have, here's
where I'm not happy too, oh, buthere are the things that I
enjoy and that I'm good at.
Do you find that in your work?
Wendy (31:46):
It's a really interesting question.
It had me thinking about whereis my strength necklace?
Oh, here it is.
So, oh, where's my little tag?
I gotta show you my little, myadorable little tag.
I think I put it in some fancyholder the other day when I was
organizing my new office space,but I keep my strengths, as you
can see if I wasn't in a newoffice.
(32:07):
Okay, here they are.
I keep my strengths right herein this little envelope.
And so what will?
What I believe will help yourclients answer that question and
not skip it is to actually havethem do the VIA character
strength assessment.
Yes, when we ask people anopen-ended question, especially
women, what are you good atRight?
(32:29):
It's like I don't know Like Ican make a good lasagna, I don't
know.
Jam, maybe.
Jam, maybe a couple of babiesit puts us in this deer in
headlights experience where it'slike okay, no, that's like way
too big of a question.
A lot of times we feel easilyoverwhelmed by some of the
(32:51):
bigger questions.
And then when you're askingwomen to kind of brag about
themselves not that that's whatthe point of the question, but
that's how it's perceived it cancause that shutdown's what the
point of the question, butthat's how it's perceived.
It can cause that shutdownbecause now the fear is that
whatever they put down, is itgoing to be judged or evaluated.
Instead, if they do the VIAcharacter strengths assessment,
we can include a link to that inthe show notes.
Your audience can do their ownassessment.
(33:12):
It's a totally free assessment,but I have all my clients do
this when we're starting out,especially my one-to-one work.
Do this and then this is yourguide, and then I do the values
assessment with them and I keepthis as a as a another marker of
am I on the right track?
So we have less difficultyanswering questions when
(33:34):
questions are a little easier tounderstand and to just pick a
dot.
You know, answer a questionmultiple choice style versus
this big thing.
Because, much to your point,we're not thinking every day
like, oh, what are my strengthsand where do I shine and what am
I good at?
And let me just like givemyself a pat on the back for
doing this.
It's not how we're wired.
But when we know how to answerthe question and then our
(33:57):
strengths are essentiallypopulated for us, we're like, oh
, yeah, okay, yeah, I get thatRight.
You know humor, number four outof my five character strengths
yeah, okay, that makes sense.
Right, or zest, I'm notnaturally just excited person
about life.
Oh, that makes sense.
That that's who I am.
So when you have clients do itthis way, you have women have
(34:17):
access to tools that allow themto take away the wide open space
of deer and headlights we canmake some really fun realization
.
So that's where I would say,just to answer that, because I
think I was thinking well, Ihaven't really discovered that
in my work and this is probablywhy it's because I'm not asking
(34:38):
that open-ended, as much as I'msaying do this assessment, we'll
know exactly what yourstrengths are.
Mary (34:42):
That's a great point and it makes me think about also the
concept of values.
So I think that's alsosomething where, when you say
what do you value, people mightsay, well, I value family or
what are some?
There's a lot of, there's ahuge list of values if you look
at all kinds of values.
So what are some things thatpeople might consider when
(35:04):
they're thinking about okay,what are my values?
Wendy (35:08):
To do the values card sort that I do with my clients
so that again it's less of this100 word list of values.
And then you're sitting therejust thinking I don't know.
They all seem kind of important.
There's a process that you cango through to help you sort
through your values and to makecategories and to break it down
(35:30):
and to funnel it down until youget to your top five core values
.
So that process again, when westart to take out the piece of
resistance that is, not knowing,not having anything to tether
it to the context, doesn't makea lot of sense.
We're overwhelmed by the numberof choices we have.
This is why I only like to shopat Trader Joe's.
(35:51):
There's too many choices at anymajor grocery store and I hate
it.
It's overwhelming.
But take me to Trader Joe's andI'm like if it's not here, I
don't need it.
I tell myself that.
So when we really allowourselves to go from broad to
more narrow, it's so much easierto be like that's right.
Purpose is my top value,genuineness is my value,
(36:12):
autonomy is my value.
It makes sense.
And then you're asking yourself, essentially, does my life
reflect these?
And we should give?
I'm just thinking I have a freepurpose planner worksheet that
actually highlights strengthsand values, desires, and you go
through this monthly so that youcan stay connected to where you
want to go.
(36:32):
We should create a link forthat so that your listeners can
just print it out and start toplay with this idea of okay,
let's go from broad to narrowand start to see what I want my
month to look like, especiallyas we start new months, new
years, new quarters.
It's a really great tool tomake it a little bit less
confusing.
Mary (36:53):
Yeah, I love that, okay, cool, okay.
So one of the things that wetalked about, because I love to
do the how-tos, so we've talkeda lot about how-tos, but I like
this idea of auditing.
So, really taking a second,even if you're thinking I don't
have time to write it down, takea second, jot down what you do
(37:14):
every day for three days, justto get the bird's eye view,
because I think we can think, oh, I don't really scroll that
much and then you realize, oh, Ispent five hours over three
because it is a mindless thing.
When we're overwhelmed, we tendto go towards the mindless
thing.
So are there other things tocultivate a more positive
(37:35):
mindset?
Wendy (37:38):
I love to share this very simple exercise, and it's a
really powerful one, and ittakes less than one minute once
you get used to it.
When you wake up in the morning, ask yourself a couple of
important questions about yourday.
Number one how do I want tofeel today?
(38:00):
And you must insert an emotionin the blank.
I want to feel proud, I want tofeel relaxed, I want to feel
productive, I want to feelhopeful, I want to feel peace or
whatever it is.
What.
How do I want to feel?
The second question is what isa thought that helps generate
(38:21):
that feeling for me?
What is a thought that helps mefeel that feeling essentially?
And the third question is whatis one behavior, one action I
can take today that will give methe best chance to have that
feeling as well?
So let's say you wake up andyou don't touch your phone.
Okay, yeah, they were imagininga world where you don't touch
(38:43):
your phone and you just connectwith yourself and you say how do
I want to feel today, and maybetoday's Monday, and you're like
I want to feel productive today.
Then you ask yourself what isthe thought that gives me the
best chance to feel productive?
And you'd say something likeI've got this, I've got it,
(39:03):
let's go.
That's what I would say tomyself.
Okay, great, I locked in thethought.
So I'm going to repeat that tomyself throughout the day I've
got this, let's go.
I've got this, let's go.
And I can repeat it once, I canrepeat it 1,000 times.
It's just again a marker ofintentionality around the design
of a day.
And then number three what isone action I can do today to
(39:26):
give me the best chance to feelproductive?
Oh, I'm going to write down thelist that is circling my brain
so that I know exactly what I'maccomplishing.
And if I want to add a bonusaction, I'm going to create a 30
minute, 20 minute, 10 minute,60 minute power session where
all I do is go down that listand knock as many things out
(39:47):
uninterrupted phone is in adifferent room as I can.
So this is how we actually setourselves up to not only think
positively, feel positively, butliterally align the way that
we're living with the way wewant to feel.
It's not just I want to feelhappy today, so I'm just going
to feel happy today.
You can choose that.
If you're advanced, you canjust probably choose that and
(40:09):
start to feel it.
But for the rest of us we needto connect the dots more, to
create a more all inclusiveapproach to having a great day.
For many of us it can't just bethink positive, it needs to be
tethered to reality.
So when we do that, this oneminute morning exercise can be
all you need as the reminder ofwhat you want today to be.
(40:31):
And you just insert thosereminders throughout the day and
you're good to go.
Mary (40:36):
Yeah, it's not effortless.
If somebody appears happy allthe time, there's some work that
has been done behind that andwhat you're talking about.
First of all, I love don't pickup your phone, because I
started to do that.
That's my first thing when Iwake up.
I want to reach for that phoneand I make myself take even if
it's 60 seconds and again,people might think I don't have
(40:58):
time to lay in bed.
You're not laying in bed.
You're taking 60 seconds tointentionally say I'm going to
be in this moment for a secondand let myself wake up and then
following do those things thatyou talked about, because what
starts to happen is it rewiresthe way your brain works.
Wendy (41:19):
People will often think that you know, neuroscience is
so complicated and how am I evergoing to rewire my brain and
neuroplasticity and what's that?
And it just feels it goes overa lot of people's heads, not
because they can't understand it, but because it doesn't feel
simple enough to grab onto.
(41:39):
And this is a perfect exampleof something so simple to grab
onto that is effective inrewiring the way you think and
rewiring the way you show up toyour day in your life and you
make those little, that oneshift every morning, five days,
six days, seven days in a row.
Watch your, watch your lifetransform just from this one
exercise.
Mary (41:57):
Yeah, it's simple.
I think things that are simplesometimes are really powerful,
because we think, well, whatgood is that going to do?
That's very woo-woo and itreally.
I mean, you're already oftenthinking negatively.
You know, I'm so tired, I'm sooverwhelmed.
I don't want it to be this way.
You're just putting otherthings in place of it.
That changed your outlook Right, yeah, that's right.
(42:23):
Your outlook Right, yeah,that's right.
So one thing I'm curious about,as you've been talking how do
you help your kids embrace?
Wendy (42:32):
all of this.
If only I could bring mydaytime hat into my nighttime
mothering, I would be a muchbetter mom.
I try, I try.
So funny enough, gosh, it wasjust the other day.
Oh, this is so funny.
So just the other day mydaughter, charleston, said Mom,
(42:52):
we learned about growth mindsettoday.
And it was this moment ofrealization.
This is a funny realization andI haven't really flushed it out
so you can come on the journeywith me.
It was a really funnyrealization of me thinking, yeah
, of course, like of course youknow, but what growth mindset is
(43:12):
?
Like?
You're my daughter.
But then it was thisrealization of I've never talked
to you about it.
I have my work hat and my lifehat and I live it the same.
I'm the same person here as Iam over there.
However, it's not theconversations I'm having as I
raise my children.
Yet one of my biggest complaintsin the field and in this work
(43:35):
that I do is why don't morepeople know?
Why aren't we teaching peopleyounger and younger and younger
how to lay a foundation for thegood life?
And here I am, as such, anadvocate for this.
This is my mission, and in myown home, my daughter discovers
growth mindset and I've beentalking about it forever but
never to her, and so it was areally crazy realization.
(43:57):
So an area of growth for me isto start bringing these
conversations into my home Now.
The way I'd like to do that ismaybe Sunday night class with
mom and I teach them a concept,because that just sounds fun,
and I'd love to do this, for Ithought about doing this for,
like, teen and adolescent girlsactually on a larger scale,
because we need it, they need it.
But how I really bring it in ishow I coach them in challenging
(44:23):
moments.
It in is how I coach them inchallenging moments.
So the moments they come homethey just started a new school
in a new town, in a new statewhere they know nobody, and
their courage to show up on thatfirst day is absolutely
admirable and incredible to me,and they did, and they came home
with different reactions totheir day, and so those types of
(44:43):
moments are where I step in andcoach them.
Okay, so we've got some thingsin our control.
We've got some things that arenot in our control.
What happened over the daywasn't in our control, with
so-and-so did or said, but howwe choose to one interpret what
was said and done and not done,and what we do with that
information is where we havecontrol, so I would talk to them
about that.
And what we do with thatinformation is where we have
(45:05):
control, so I would talk to themabout that.
Oh, you weren't spoken to.
Or oh, you made no friends.
Okay, here's how I want you tothink this through.
So it does come into thosetypes of conversations, but it
needs to be more of aconversation Like it's almost
like I think there's a hiddenfear.
I don't want to be thepsychologist mom.
Yeah, I don't want to be thepsychologist mom.
(45:30):
Yeah, I don't want my kids to.
And this again is a total likestory in my head.
There's there's nothing that'smade I'm.
Having the psychologist mom isan amazing opportunity, but the
way I think about a psychologistmom analyzing everything,
wanting to dive like, dive um,dive into everything, unpack
everything, process everything Idon't want to be that mom that
my kids feel like oh, here we goagain.
Mom's got to do this with usevery time.
(45:52):
We just want to have a quickcomment about something.
I want to respect their processof life and their experience of
life, and so I don't insertmyself very much, but when I do,
those are the moments whenthere's challenges, of course,
when they're asking for support.
What do I say, what do I do?
Or I'm sad about this, and westart to reframe it.
My daughter started gymnasticsat a new gym.
(46:13):
Right, we just moved here andher reaction to it was I can't
do this, I'm not strong enough.
This is not at all like myother gym.
I not at all like my other gym.
I cannot cut it.
And she felt like I'm the worston the team.
No way am I going to continue,I can't.
And I sat her down and I said toher this is simply an issue of
(46:37):
strength.
This is not a conversation aboutability.
This is strength right now.
This is not that you're notever able to be at that level.
This is about we need to catchyour strength up to where
they're performing right now.
So this is just simple math.
That's how I was seeing it.
We just need to get you to thegym.
We're going to lift someweights, we're going to do this
and that and that those areoptions to you, or you can quit
(46:59):
if you want to, because you'reintimidated and I understand you
don't want to walk back inthere and she chose the route of
strength building.
She chose it to try it on forsize to see if it worked.
And sure enough, two weekslater she literally said mom,
I'm so much stronger I can'tbelieve I can do this stuff now.
And so those moments I try toremember the tools that I use
(47:21):
with my clients as a mother, butmore often I'm just mom and I
don't insert myself a ton and Idon't bring these terms into our
conversations, and I probablycould a bit more.
Mary (47:32):
Yeah, I think you illustrate it, though.
I mean you're teaching growthmindset, you just don't label it
and I think even the life thatyou lead when we you know.
To kind of rewind back to thebeginning, we talked about women
feeling like if they're notoverwhelmed, they're not doing
something right.
But that affects your kids.
They see someone, even if youtry to hide it.
(47:55):
They are very perceptive.
So when they can see a parentwho really does this intentional
thought process, actions basedon, you know, wanting a certain
outcome, that in itself, I think, is really powerful.
Wendy (48:12):
Thank you, I think I would agree with that, but
modeling is the most important,powerful piece.
Right, it doesn't have to comedown to using the right words or
the right language, but andthat's also the difference when
you were talking a bit aboutshifting into the coaching model
, that was actually anotherpiece of it for me was coaching
really is more about theembodiment of being your best
self, so that those who comeinto your world can see that
(48:36):
you're living proof of what'spossible, which is again why I
probably share more of thepossibility versus the challenge
stuff.
So when we think about it fromthat way, it's like with our,
with my children too.
I really want to show themwhat's possible.
There's something, there's analternative to the way you're
interpreting this.
There's an alternative to theway you're thinking through this
.
Like I need to show you thisalternative.
(48:56):
I can't let you, in my in goodfaith, just grow up to like have
your stories without me tryingto snip it or stop it or or kind
of like influence it a littlebit and show them the tools.
But you're right, I'm notsaying it, but maybe I'm
modeling it.
So there is that.
It does come into motherhood,I'm sure, but there are
obviously the moments that Idon't create space between
(49:17):
stimulus and response andgirlfriend is just reacting with
my impatience.
So that happens too.
Mary (49:24):
Well, yeah, and I think we're made to compare ourselves.
So when your daughter went intothis new experience with
gymnastics, she's looking aroundlike I'm not cut out for this.
You're able to reframe that,that it's about something
different than what you thinkthis is about, and that then,
just without you observing like,see, we're putting a different
(49:45):
frame on it, or where it's sureshe will then be able to think
more that way, just naturally.
So that's where I also wantpeople to see because many women
do have children and have thisimpact on them that if you have
trouble wanting to embrace,working with you or working with
a coach to live a life that youfeel fulfilled, if you need a
(50:10):
little bit of a different reason, think about how you show up
for your family, because thereis a big impact on that and that
might make some people feellike, oh okay, there's actually
another part of this.
If it's hard for somebody tojust step into that space as an
individual woman.
Wendy (50:28):
Sure, I think, yeah, you know, looking into our own
motivators, our own drive, ourvalues and that's a big thing
that does motivate us right ispain.
So when we are living a lifethat is not in line with our
values, we feel it which I calllike hit, like we hit the rumble
strip.
We're on the highway, we thinkwe're doing all the things, and
(50:48):
then we hit the rumble strip,which is the discontent, which
is the dissatisfaction with life, which is the languishing,
which is the waking up exhaustedor depleted, and that rumble
strip is the reminder that weneed to reconnect with what we
value.
And if your values are how youshow up for other people and how
they receive you and how youexperience your relationships,
which is obviously the numberone predictor of happiness, the
(51:12):
quality of your relationshipsmatters so much.
It's a great reason to be in asupportive environment with
somebody who can lead youthrough it.
I think the other piece thattends to be pretty motivating
for people is when we get sickand tired of being sick and
tired.
A lot of people wait too longuntil it's, you know, the 11th
hour to desperately seek support, but it's like when you're kind
of just tired of going aroundwhat I call the mulberry bush
(51:34):
and we're just going around themulberry bush again and we're
the same patterns and the sameresults and the same
frustrations time and time again.
We need to give ourselves justthe opportunity to consider an
alternative Like what if I wasin an environment that actually
laid a foundation for momentumand purpose building and
accountability and actuallyconnecting yourself to growth,
(51:57):
instead of just telling yourselfI just need to do this on my
own?
Mary (52:00):
Yeah, and we wait often till our bodies get involved,
till we're sick or, like yousaid, the 11th hour where it's
like, oh, now I have to dosomething.
So I think let's preempt thatand take some action now.
And you've given so many greatinsights and options today, and
I will link the things that wetalked about in the show notes
(52:22):
so, before we end, can youreview for us where to find you
and what you offer?
Wendy (52:29):
The best place to find me is Instagram, at Dr Wendy
O'Connor.
Come say hi, introduce yourself.
I love that.
I'm on everything right now,all platforms, but that's really
the place I hang out the most.
And I have an upcoming freemasterclass coming up called the
Fierce Finishers, which is forwomen who do not want to coast
to the end of the year and theyreally want to end 2025 feeling
(52:50):
proud and that they made thechanges they thought they would
make in January and at the endof the year, feeling that sense
of connection to power, strength, results, just proving to
themselves they've got this.
So I have that coming up.
And then I have what's calledThrive 75, which is going to be
a 75-day accountability programto keep you on track with
(53:14):
overcoming self-doubt, pokinginto the right mindset and
having the habits build fordesigning your life.
So I have a couple of funthings in the works, but also,
of course, some women are justlike I don't want any of the
group stuff.
I want to do my own thing withyou.
Of course, you can also reachout to me about those
opportunities too.
Mary (53:31):
Oh, I love all of that.
I love the Thrive 75.
Wendy (53:34):
It's going to be really fun yeah.
Mary (53:36):
Well, thank you so much for being here.
I really appreciate it Thankyou.
Wendy (53:40):
Mary, thank you, I loved being here.
Mary (53:42):
And I want to thank everyone for listening.
I would love so much if youtake a second to scroll to the
bottom of the show page and giveme a quick rating, and if you
have an extra minute, leave acomment.
And I want to tell you I'm sothrilled that y'all are the
reason that I hit the top 10% ofpodcasts globally.
So please help other women findme and my content and, until
(54:03):
next time, go out into the worldand be the amazing, resilient,
vibrant violet that you are.
Thank you.
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