November 25, 2025 • 35 mins
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What if the story you were handed about motherhood—find a partner, marry, then try for kids—was never the only way? We sit down with author and coach Cheri Bergeron to unpack how she pursued a corporate career, watched the clock get louder, and then chose a different path: IVF with donor eggs, navigating loss, and ultimately becoming a single mother by choice. The conversation is raw and generous, tracing the moments that broke her heart, the legal fight that tested her rights, and the decisions that rebuilt her life on her own terms.
We get practical about fertility timing and why so many of us misread success stories in the media. Cheri explains ovarian reserve, the realities behind “pregnant at 45” headlines, and why proactive choices like egg freezing can preserve options without dictating your future. We also go deep on the emotional side: the isolation of infertility, the friendships that fracture after loss, and the boundaries that protect your mental health when hope and grief coexist month after month. If you’ve ever felt behind, defective, or trapped by the timeline, this is a clear-eyed, compassionate reset.
Together we reimagine family structure and support. Single motherhood by choice isn’t settling—it’s an intentional, empowered model that often creates a stronger village than a traditional nuclear setup. We explore chosen family, co-parenting realities, and the legal pitfalls of presumed parenthood when separation and assisted reproduction intersect. Cheri’s nonprofit, Cheri’s Choice, offers resources, workshops, and coaching to help women define their non-negotiables, map their options, and move forward with confidence.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mary (00:05):
Welcome to No Shrinking Violets.
I'm your host, Mary Rothwell,licensed therapist and certified
integrative mental healthpractitioner.
I've created a space where wecelebrate the intuition and
power of women who want to breakfree from limiting narratives.
We'll explore all realms ofwellness, what it means to take
up space unapologetically, andhow your essential nature is key
(00:28):
to living life on your terms.
It's time to own your space,trust your nature, and flourish.
Let's dive in.
Hey Violets, welcome to theshow.
I never really felt a longingto have children.
I think for me, I started mycareer working with young people
(00:49):
in my early 20s, so perhapsthat was a good substitute for
me.
I know when I was very young, Iread a story of a couple that
adopted children from orphanagesin other countries, and I felt
drawn to do that myself.
But I didn't marry for thefirst time until I was 37.
By that point, my gynecologistwasn't shy about telling me to
(01:09):
hurry up if I wanted to conceivechildren.
My eggs were getting old.
But also, my husband at thetime didn't really want
children.
So because I didn't have astrong feeling one way or the
other, I never conceived.
However, I do wonder about thesocietal narrative, at least for
my generation, that you need tofind a partner before having a
kid.
(01:29):
How much that might haveimpacted my choice below my
level of awareness.
Much of that expectation wasoften informed by religious
rules, also.
Having worked with bothindividual clients in unhealthy
marriages and couples who werestruggling, I believed that
staying married for the kids isnearly always a losing
proposition, and one that couldhave a more negative outcome for
(01:52):
the kids than, as we say today,consciously uncoupling.
And honestly, the family unittoday can look quite different
from mom, dad, and 2.1 kids thatwe've held up as the ideal for
so long.
My guest today, CherieBergeron, didn't allow the
programming, you need to find aman and get married before kids,
to prevent her from achievingher dream of having her own
(02:14):
children.
Her road to that decision,however, certainly wasn't easy.
And before we're done today,we're going to have Cherie
answer the question (02:21):
what is the biggest myth women are told
about motherhood?
Cherie is an author, blogger,public speaker, trained life
coach, and founder of thenonprofit Cherie's Choice,
guiding women throughalternative paths to motherhood.
Following a successful careerin IT, Cherie now helps single
women weigh their options,navigate fertility challenges,
(02:43):
and build families on their ownterms.
Her personal fertility journeyincluded becoming a mother
without a partner through IVFtreatments and donor conception.
In her teaching memoir, MissionMotherhood, Cherie shares her
experiences with relationships,workplace challenges, and
choosing motherhood after 40.
She details her struggles withIVF and the realities of, quote,
(03:06):
geriatric pregnancy.
Welcome to No Shrinking Violet,Cherie.
Oh, thank you so much, Mary.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Yeah, and I'm looking forwardto jumping into this topic.
Um, but I would love to startif you could tell us a little
about your your story.
Like, what do you think weresort of the big events or the
flashball moments along the waythat fueled your mission?
Cheri (03:29):
Sure.
Well, I think I, like so manywomen, started really by
pursuing my career.
And I had two dreams.
One was to take the corporateworld by storm.
And then the other really wasthis fairy tale of love and
marriage and family.
And because I was raised in atraditional household, I took
that for granted, that I wouldjust organically meet the right
(03:51):
person, children would naturallycome and we would live happily
ever after.
But when you're really pursuingyour career and you're a strong
woman, it doesn't always happenthat way.
And so I went on thismerry-go-round of relationships.
And I really did believe that Ihad to have a husband in order
to have a child.
And so, but I had false starts,relationships that didn't work
(04:15):
out.
And in a lot of cases, theywould always fall apart with the
question do I see myself havingchildren with this person?
Because I had a somewhattroubled uh upbringing.
I had alcoholism in my family,and I saw some things about my
parents' relationship that Ididn't want to repeat.
(04:35):
And so that was always thatsort of the rubber would hit the
road at that point, and I'dfind myself back at square one.
And then the, you know, theclock keeps ticking and louder
and louder.
And at 36, I decided to settlefor someone who looked good on
paper because of the urgency ofbecoming a mother.
(04:56):
And that had fairly disastrousresults, as you can imagine.
Um, I thought I would magicallyget pregnant.
And at 37, I didn't, and at 38,I didn't, at 39, I didn't.
At 40, I showed up at thefertility doctor's office and
learned some of the brutal truthabout reproductive timelines.
And so, you know, that reallywas a big part of my 10-year
(05:20):
journey to become a mother.
I had my children at 44 and umwhat two weeks shy of my 47th
birthday.
Wow.
So better late than never, Isuppose.
And that certainly was true forme.
But that really, all thoseexperiences have fueled my
mission now to really help womenmake choices with greater
(05:43):
clarity and confidence inchoice.
And so that's why I started thenonprofit Cherise Choice.
Mary (05:48):
And we will talk more about that and what that mission
is.
You know, it's it's interestingbecause that of course mirrors
my own journey because you keepyou keep thinking, you know, I'm
looking for that person.
I need to wait to have thechildren.
And I think there's also wehave this idea that when we're
ready, it's just gonna happen.
Magically.
unknown (06:09):
Yeah.
Mary (06:09):
And when I'm sure for you, as the months went by and it
wasn't happening, I can't evenimagine what that felt like for
you.
Cheri (06:17):
There's this tension that builds in women.
And part of it too is is theresomething wrong with me?
Am I going to miss out on mychance?
Have my past decisionsdisqualified myself from
motherhood?
Those messages come from us,but they also come from society.
And some of them even came frommy family members.
And so, you know, you reallystruggle with what is the right
(06:41):
decision.
And ultimately, I had to say,you know what?
I feel so strongly that it's mypurpose to become a mother that
I'm gonna do this on my own.
And that was really a freeingmoment for me because prior to
that, I felt very powerless.
And that was a way for me toreclaim my power.
Mary (06:59):
Yeah.
So you stepped out of thenarrative, really, right?
Because you had to say, I'mgonna do this in a way that
there are still some facets ofsociety that that give the side
eye to that.
That what do you mean you'regonna decide as a single woman
that's not fair to the childrenor you know, all of those
narratives, you had the courageto step away from that.
(07:21):
But you weren't, you were notdivorced yet, correct?
Cheri (07:25):
Well, so I I love you've done all your research.
So I um really force-fit thatfairy tale and realized once I
was married that it was notgoing to be a good fit.
And one of the things that Ireally didn't want to do was
subject my children to adysfunctional relationship
(07:46):
because I felt like that wasreally the greatest damage.
So there were some things thathappened, and as you know, I
encountered child loss.
And that is one of the things,even in a strong marriage, that
really tests a marriage.
But in a weak marriage, it wasreally the final straw that
broke the camel's back.
And so while we were stillmarried, um, he had made the
(08:09):
decision he didn't want to beinvolved with any children if we
weren't together.
And I had made the decisionthat I absolutely wanted to
become a mother with or withouthim.
And so we kind of had thatagreement, but we were separated
before I actually knew that Iwas pregnant.
The um we did have sharedembryos, though.
So that is kind of where theconnection was.
Mary (08:31):
Okay.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat process about like the
shared embryos.
How does that happen?
Ivy, for people who may haveheard stories or are thinking
about this themselves, what wasthat like?
What were some of thechallenges?
Cheri (08:47):
Sure.
Well, it's sort of taking thetraditional egg meat sperm into
the laboratory instead of thebedroom is really how I think
about it.
So eggs are harvested.
In my case, I used an egg donorbecause at 40 we discovered
that my uh my egg res my ovarianreserve was not very good.
(09:08):
And so I learned using ayounger donor that my odds of
having a successful pregnancywould be roughly the same as
hers.
So if I got 27-year-old eggs,then I kind of became a
27-year-old again, which feltpretty good.
And um, and then he sort ofmade his deposit, you know, and
(09:29):
then these ingredients areintroduced and embryos are
formed outside the womb, andthen they are transferred into
uh into the woman.
And so that's kind of how IVFworks.
And um, so you definitely get alittle bit of a head start uh
outside of the body.
(09:50):
And I was pregnant with twins.
Oh wow.
Yeah.
Okay.
And that's not that uncommonthough, correct?
Well, in my case, I decided totransfer to because I had had
loss before, and I thought,well, let's do a one and done
sort of situation in this case,kind of let's be complete.
(10:10):
Yeah.
Didn't quite work out that wayeither.
But um, you know, that was thethat was the plan in my case.
In a lot of other cases, uh,women may have more eggs
released and they get multiplebirths because of that.
But that's a somewhat differentapproach than mine.
Yeah.
Mary (10:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, as you're tellingthis story, and it strikes me
that there must have been timesthrough all of this that were
very lonely for you.
Cheri (10:38):
Oh my gosh.
That that's an understatement,I think, because even when a
woman is married and in a goodrelationship, I think that
infertility is very isolatingbecause it strikes at a core of
what we consider as part of usbeing a woman, being able to
conceive, carry, and deliver achild.
And so there's so many ups anddowns in that process.
(11:02):
And other people can'tnecessarily relate.
Your husband can't relate,right?
They don't know much about thatprocess.
And at least mine wasn't veryemotionally intelligent.
Uh, your parents had success,you know, and perhaps didn't
head that down this road.
Your friends at this point areall having families seemingly
(11:24):
easily.
And so, you know, there weren'ta lot of places to go.
I did find some friends whowere walking that same journey,
and I really recommend thatbecause it can really have
issues with your mental health.
And so, you know, I tell womenyou gotta find somebody.
And sometimes if it's reallyrough, your closest friends
(11:45):
can't be those people becauseit's too difficult.
It's too painful.
Yeah.
Mary (11:50):
Well, and it's painful, I think, to see it even when you
find people walking that journeywith you, if they are able to
conceive before you are, I'msure that there then there is
another issue that you have toaccommodate somewhere in your
heart.
Cheri (12:07):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, yeah, it's like you'veread the book.
So that happened to me.
Um, I had a dear friend who wasgoing through this at the same
time I was.
I was a little bit ahead ofher.
I was pregnant and then endedup losing that child right
around the time that shedetermined that she was
pregnant.
And it was very difficult forme to, for one, I didn't want to
(12:32):
diminish her happiness for amoment, but I on I had to be
authentic too, and I had togrieve.
And so I had let her know thatI felt like I had to step away
for a while to heal because thiswas a late, late stage loss,
you know.
So I knew it was a girl, shewas having a girl.
It was really, reallydifficult.
(12:53):
And that ended our friendshipbecause she didn't understand
why I had to go away, even as tome, as communicative as I was,
as as well-intentioned as I was,and told her how I just didn't
want to diminish her happiness,she still didn't understand.
And so one thing I find is thatwhen there's loss, there's
(13:13):
ripple effects to that loss.
And there can be more than oneloss that happens.
For sure.
Mary (13:20):
Well, and I think too, we're we're coming into an age
where I think we are morewilling to, as women, tell our
own stories.
So for instance, I think aboutmenopause.
For for my mom, who would be 98if she was living, they didn't
really talk about it.
They suffered in silence, theydidn't compare notes.
So until recently, we didn'trealize, oh my God, everybody's
(13:42):
going through this because we'revery good at hiding things.
And I think about that as thecase with a lot of times
miscarrying or losing a childlike that.
Cheri (13:50):
Very true, very true, especially when people don't
know that you were pregnant.
In my case, I had announced itall over the place because I was
so elated after so many yearsof infertility.
And then when that happens,nobody wants to talk to you at
all because they don't know whatto say to you.
And so, yes, again, a veryisolating process.
(14:12):
But we should assure your readyour listeners that there's a
happy ending to this too.
Yeah, we're getting a littlebit more.
Please don't reach don't reachfor the shot at uh, you know,
whatever early morning time youmight be listening to this.
Yes, yes, because I want to Iwant to get to that actually
right now.
Mary (14:28):
How did you find the strength to stay the path?
Because now you are a mom.
Cheri (14:33):
Yes, and I have two children.
I have um a a daughter that isI co-parent with my ex now.
And then I had another child uhcompletely on my own Unisine
and anonymous sperm donor.
So I have a uh almost13-year-old and a 10-year-old at
(14:54):
this point.
Congratulations.
Mary (14:55):
That's exciting.
Yeah, that's great.
So, but within this, in alongwith your struggle personally,
like really trying to, you madeyour decision in a sense, you
were swimming upstreamsocietally because you're making
this choice.
Um, you had a lot of thesehurdles to overcome.
In the middle of that, therewas actually a custody battle,
(15:19):
right?
Cheri (15:21):
I mean, that's such a crazy part of it.
Yeah.
So I stayed legally married theentire time because we had a
business together.
We were just, I was living myown life, he was living his.
Uh we were co-parenting mydaughter.
And you may have noticed inthere, he actually changed his
(15:41):
mind about that because before Itransferred the eggs or the
embryos, he said he didn't wantto be involved.
So there was a change in there.
Yeah.
So we were just co-parenting,and you know, I went on to have
my own child.
I I used completely new embryosand and that sort of thing.
(16:01):
And seven years after weseparated, um, he sued me to try
to become his legal father.
And, you know, that was reallyinteresting because he wasn't
the biological father and hehadn't been living with him or
being in a fatherly role in anyway.
So that was a bit shocking, abit jarring and um infuriating,
(16:27):
actually, I'm sure.
But it really went to the coreof does a woman have the right
to pursue her own pregnancywhile still legally married, but
legally separated.
And that was really what waslandmark about the case, because
there are laws in I think everystate that say that if you have
(16:51):
a child during a marriage, thenthe man is the presumed father.
And so it was based on thatpresumption, even though he knew
that wasn't true, that the thecustody battle was about.
Mary (17:02):
Wow.
That that's a littlemind-blowing.
I don't I don't really kind ofunder I don't really kind of
understand why that would haveeven become a thing.
Cheri (17:18):
Uh you know, I have to agree with you on that.
Um I can't explain what I hismotivations were.
I have some theories, but Idon't know.
And all I knew was that Ididn't want my child to have to
live a lie, and I wasn't goingto allow it to the extent that I
(17:41):
was able.
So I fought and ultimately thejudge agreed.
Yeah.
Well, I'm glad about that.
Oh, me too.
Me too.
It creates some complexitiesbecause we do share a daughter,
you know.
So there's so this is a hugefuel behind my motivation to
help women make better choicesfrom the beginning.
(18:02):
Because if I had not felt thatI had to force fit things in
order to become a mother, thenthere would not have been these
ripple effects.
But of course, you know, I'mthrilled that I have my
daughter.
There are things that we wouldnever take back, and she is
glorious.
And so, but you do have tothink that maybe it could be
done with a little bit lesspain.
Mary (18:24):
Well, and yeah, and that's where you come in with the help
that you offer.
Cheri (18:29):
Right, right.
Exactly.
That's the goal.
Mary (18:31):
Yeah.
Cheri (18:32):
That's the goal.
Mary (18:33):
So, one thing before we segue into that, I'm curious
about where do you think yourresilience came from?
Because there had to be hardmoments.
Cheri (18:43):
Oh, there were so many hard moments.
I would say it came from thefact that one, I'm tremendously
stubborn.
I think that was just a qualitythat I have.
Um, but to me, that was also Iwas resolute.
I I had this sense that I wouldnot be fulfilled if I didn't
become a mother.
And that's not to say that thatis true of every person.
(19:07):
I don't believe that you haveto be a mother to be a fulfilled
person.
But my personal conviction wasthat this was super important to
me, that I had gotten throughprobably about 15 to 20 years of
my career and felt like, isthis all there is?
And I knew that as much timeand passion and energy as I put
(19:30):
into it, a few weeks after I wasgone, it probably wouldn't
matter.
And I wanted to do somethingthat mattered.
Mary (19:36):
Yeah.
Cheri (19:36):
And to me, motherhood was really one of those things that
would be enduring and wouldreally matter.
And now I know through thatjourney that I have an
opportunity to do more thingsthat are enduring and hopefully
that will matter.
So uh finding a new purposeoutside of that previous career
was such a gift.
Yeah.
Mary (19:55):
Well, and that's one of the things that we've started
off talking about.
How women have this sort oftimeline.
Like, I want to get establishedin my career.
And I've asked this question ofother guests, and I usually get
the answer, no, this was myjourney.
I wouldn't change anything.
But knowing what you know now,would you have done things in a
different order or a differentway?
(20:15):
Do you think?
Cheri (20:17):
I would have made a plan.
I think that is the thing.
So we as women plan ourcareers, we plan other aspects
of our lives, we plan oursavings, we plan our retirement,
we plan all these things.
But when it comes tomotherhood, we go, oh gosh, I
hope, you know, and we we sortof give away our power in that
area.
(20:37):
Medical science has gotten to apoint where we don't have to do
that anymore.
And so I am an advocate offreezing eggs.
I think that if you really feelstrongly that you want to have
children that are geneticallyyours, then that is, you know,
some a step you can take to helpincrease your chances.
It's not a guarantee, but it isa bit of an insurance policy so
(21:02):
that you can extend your timeframe.
Um, I went into my fertilityblindly.
I looked at the society and thefact that celebrities were
having babies in their 40s andtheir 50s, and I thought, oh,
we're good.
Medical science is going tohave my back when I'm ready.
And that wasn't actually true.
Society doesn't tell us thefull truth about what that
(21:25):
means.
So, yes, I found a way, butcould there have been other
paths that would have been lesscostly, less emotionally
draining, less painful?
Yeah, I think there could havebeen.
So I really encourage women totake control of their fertility
and make a plan.
Yeah.
And that's part of what we workon.
(21:46):
And that's what you're what youdo through Cherie's choice,
correct?
Right.
Right.
And and a big part of that isgetting to women younger.
You know, we have sex ed inmiddle school before kids need
it, but there's no fertilityeducation for young women.
There's no fertility educationin college unless you happen to
(22:07):
be getting a medical degree or aphysiology degree or something
like that.
Women deserve to have thisinformation at the same time
we're telling them other thingsabout their lives.
And so that's a real passion ofmine.
Mary (22:20):
Well, and I think having gone through being certified in
functional nutrition myself andhaving a whole section on the
reproductive system, and alsoknowing that I think it's
something like 2% of fundedresearch is in the area of
women.
And that's largely women duringreproductive age.
So knowing all of that'salready stacked against us,
(22:42):
things like polycystic ovariandisease and endometriosis, all
of those things I think are notonly misunderstood, but again,
anytime we have pain orsomething's not right, I think
we can have that tendency aswomen to be like, well, it must
be me.
I'm doing something wrong.
Or so I think understandingthat and advocating for our own
(23:04):
needs and when we feel likesomething's not right, like you
had that instinct in yourmarriage.
Like, I don't want a parentwith this as this person as my
husband, right?
That was not something.
So is as we think about all ofthose issues that present
themselves, is that somethingthat you weave in?
Because you talk about gettingto women earlier.
(23:24):
How does that factor into yourmission?
Cheri (23:27):
Well, I think it really is having that foundation of
information and reallyunderstanding from the beginning
that this is a choice, that wedo have some beliefs that we
were raised with, but isn'tcollege about really learning
and claiming your own truth?
And so for me, I just adoptedthe values that I was taught
(23:49):
without considering that theremight be other options.
And so I think getting thatsense that there are multiple
paths to motherhood, there's notjust one way, starts to make us
feel empowered and that we knowthat now we have this
foundation of knowledge that wecan draw upon and make good
decisions for ourselves and ourfuture children along the way.
(24:11):
And that's just something thatI didn't have.
So that's the gift that I wantto give to younger, the younger
generations.
Mary (24:18):
Yeah.
And it's so important.
And I think also if we lookhistorically, I think women
tended to create more of acommunity to help each other
with parenting.
I think this idea of you haveto find a male partner and have
a marriage and then havechildren, that's a little bit
newer.
It's very informed by a lot oftimes religious ideas and
(24:40):
societal ideas.
But if we look historicallycenturies ago, it is that idea
of it takes a village.
And women helped each otherwith supporting each other in
their parenting.
Cheri (24:52):
I think there are many women today who are sitting in a
nuclear family saying, Wow, Iwish I had that village back.
unknown (24:58):
Yeah.
Cheri (24:59):
And a lot of times a nuclear family is maybe even
more isolated, especially ifyour other family members don't
live close by.
I think a single mother bychoice intentionally creates a
village beyond what sometimes anuclear family does.
And, you know, the fact is, ourkids learn from so many
(25:21):
sources.
They need all kinds of rolemodels, and parents can't always
fill all of those needs.
And so I think it really issmart to have a group of people
around you that love your childand want the best for your
child.
So, you know, I think it's agreat approach.
Mary (25:38):
So if there's someone listening who is struggling
right now with infertility, whatis some of the advice that you
might give her?
Cheri (25:46):
I mean, for one, I would just say my heart is with you.
Um, I for anyone who'sstruggling with infertility, I
know that pain.
And I want you to know that youaren't alone and to really
reach out.
What for one, I'm giving you avirtual hug right now.
I mean, you know, that's Ithink the thing that you need to
know that it's it's going to beokay and that there is support
(26:12):
for you.
There are fertility coaches,there are a number of
nonprofits.
I mean, you can you can directmessage me.
Um, you know, I'm verypassionate that no woman feel
alone in this process.
So that would be the firstthing.
The other thing is really knowwhat you want.
Know what your non-negotiablesare.
(26:33):
Every woman has the right tosay, I choose to become a
mother.
Um, I won't become a mother ifthey're not genetically mine.
As Jennifer Aniston just cameout and said, that that was one
of her non-negotiables.
That's fine.
You know, that's perfectlyacceptable.
For me, I said, you know,genetics don't matter for me.
(26:53):
I want a healthy child that Ican invest in and nurture.
And so that was my big thing.
But I would say that, and thenseek out what your options are
because there are many morepaths to motherhood than you may
be aware of.
I started with foster parentingbefore I actually went on my
(27:14):
DIY approach to motherhood.
So, you know, there are many,many paths, and you really have
to figure out which one is rightfor you.
Mary (27:21):
Yeah, and we don't always do a good job, I think, as
women, in accepting that someoneelse's choices are different
than ours.
So I think that's also findingwho will support you because it
won't be everyone.
Like you pointed that out.
There were people where, youknow, you thought this is going
to be a source of support.
And at some point it's like,oh, wait a minute, this isn't
(27:42):
quite going as I anticipated,but there are people that will
support you.
It just might be not be thepeople you think.
Cheri (27:49):
That's right.
And and I think we do we havecome further in society
understanding that family isoften something that you choose
based on shared values asopposed to something you're
bored into.
A lot of people didn't getsupport from their family of
origin.
And they really have to findpeople who are committed to
them, who are supportive ofthem, and who are accepting of
(28:11):
them.
And if you don't have thosethings in your family, it's time
to get a new one because youknow, life is too short to have
to live it with that kind ofcondemnation.
And in my case, really religiondid play a role in that.
And, you know, I really feelthat at the heart of any
religion is love.
And that's the journey I wason.
(28:32):
So, you know, whatever yourkind of, you know, your brand of
religion is apparently doesn'twork with me because, you know,
I'm leading from a place oflove.
Mary (28:41):
So tell us a little bit.
Um, you have great resources.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat what is in your book or
what what we can expect fromyour book and also where to find
you.
And of course, I'll link it allin the show notes.
Cheri (28:54):
Sure, sure.
Well, I wrote the book in the Idecided that I needed to write
the book when I was in themiddle of the custody battle
because I was in a crisis.
I was thinking to myself, whyis this happening to me?
And it was this moment of totalsurrender, Mary.
And I said, you know, just why?
(29:15):
Why is this happening?
And the answer I got back was,you're going through this so you
can help other women becomemothers.
And so I felt driven to writethis book to really share what
the experience of infertilitywas like.
And it is unflinching.
So, you know, it it may not bethe best choice for someone
who's in the middle of aninfertility crisis themselves,
(29:38):
because it is very raw.
But if you want to know you'renot alone, boy, will you know
that.
It's also, though, meant toshow people how I arrived at
this other path and how Idecided to cast aside old fairy
tales.
So, you know, that it's a greatchoice if you want to help
support someone, understand whatinfertility is about.
(29:59):
I think.
It's a great resource.
Um, Cherie's Choice is reallyjust meant to give women the
tools.
So there's a lot of resourceson the site.
Uh, we are going to startoffering workshops for women
after the first of the yearwhere you can really explore
what your priorities are and thepaths to motherhood and things
(30:21):
like that.
So that's really what that iswhat the uh nonprofit is about.
And we also intend to providecounseling for women so that
they could bounce those ideasoff someone and really feel that
they had the opportunity toprocess what their priorities
are.
I love all the parts of that.
Mary (30:40):
That is so great because I feel like almost I can almost
feel that when certain peopleare listening to this, they're
going to feel a sense of hopebecause just hearing your story,
first of all, it's it to me, assomeone who certainly hasn't
been through it, but knowspeople who have struggled with
some parts of this, it's justamazing to me that you have such
(31:04):
an ability to bounce back andthen not just bounce back, but
go beyond that and say, I'mactually gonna first of all, I
have a book coming out thebeginning of the year.
So I know the work that goesinto a book.
Yeah.
Um, so good for you for that.
And then all the other things.
It's just like I, it's justamazing.
So I'm gonna link all that inthe show notes so everyone can
(31:26):
have it if they need it.
That's great.
Cheri (31:28):
You know, I and I think women through these generations,
we've kind of been told we'reless than, that we're a lower
priority, that we are just meantto be a selfless and kind of in
the, you know, in the shadowsto the side.
I don't think we realize howpowerful we truly are.
We are the only beings that areactually able to give life.
(31:52):
And so, you know, I reallythink it's time that we reclaim
a lot of that power, bothpersonally in our
self-confidence and, you know,physically in what we can do.
So I think, I think we've beenlong underrated as a gender, and
it's time for us to to stepinto that, you know, really that
that greatness, that divinitythat we have.
(32:14):
So I think it's it's wonderful.
Mary (32:16):
Yeah, I couldn't agree with that more.
And it's partly why I named mypodcast No Shrinking Violets,
because violets have always beenunderestimated because when
they rest, they close up and wethink that's weakness, and it's
not.
So, you know, it's a re veryresilient plant.
So I do believe that we havenarratives that hold us back.
And once we can really listen,like you had to listen inside of
(32:40):
you.
And once you did that, that'swhere our power grows.
You're right.
So, okay, so we teased this.
Um, and I think people couldprobably sum it up.
But tell me, what do you thinkis the biggest myth women are
told about motherhood?
Cheri (32:54):
Yeah.
That there's only one way, thatthere is a very linear
progression of how you become amother.
I really don't believe that'strue.
I think that if I had donethings a bit out of order and
let love find me in its owntime, and without the pressures
of feeling that I had to makethis happen now because of my
(33:15):
clock, I think I would have madebetter choices.
And so I, yeah, I say if youfeel compelled to become a
mother, if you feel that that'syour purpose, maybe we need to
write, rewrite the script alittle bit and choose motherhood
first and then let love findyou on its own time and for the
right reasons, because youdeserve both.
(33:38):
And a lot of women believe thatif I become a single mother,
that I'll never find love.
Well, that's just not true.
In fact, you will be in abetter position because you're
fulfilled, you're whole, you'reliving life on your own terms.
That's the best way to meetsomeone who you want to spend
your life with.
So, you know, I think again,when we when we change the order
(34:02):
of things, when we stop livingby somebody else's rules, that's
when real freedom comes in.
Mary (34:08):
For sure.
That's a beautiful way to sayall that.
I'm so glad you were heretoday.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story.
Cheri (34:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
What an honor to be with you.
Thank you.
Mary (34:19):
And I want to thank everyone for listening.
So if you're interested inliving from your true nature and
using the lessons of nature tohelp you set boundaries, build
resilience, and thrive, sign upfor my launch team for my book,
Nature Knows, which is comingout next year.
You will only get emailperiodically with updates and
fun-free stuff, including anaudio of one of my book
(34:40):
chapters.
You can find the link in theshow notes.
And until next time, go outinto the world and be the
amazing, resilient, vibrantviolet that you are.
Welcome to No Shrinking Violets.
I'm your host, Mary Rothwell,licensed therapist and certified
integrative mental healthpractitioner.
I've created a space where wecelebrate the intuition and
power of women who want to breakfree from limiting narratives.
We'll explore all realms ofwellness, what it means to take
up space unapologetically, andhow your essential nature is key
(00:28):
to living life on your terms.
It's time to own your space,trust your nature, and flourish.
Let's dive in.
Hey Violets, welcome to theshow.
I never really felt a longingto have children.
I think for me, I started mycareer working with young people
(00:49):
in my early 20s, so perhapsthat was a good substitute for
me.
I know when I was very young, Iread a story of a couple that
adopted children from orphanagesin other countries, and I felt
drawn to do that myself.
But I didn't marry for thefirst time until I was 37.
By that point, my gynecologistwasn't shy about telling me to
(01:09):
hurry up if I wanted to conceivechildren.
My eggs were getting old.
But also, my husband at thetime didn't really want
children.
So because I didn't have astrong feeling one way or the
other, I never conceived.
However, I do wonder about thesocietal narrative, at least for
my generation, that you need tofind a partner before having a
kid.
(01:29):
How much that might haveimpacted my choice below my
level of awareness.
Much of that expectation wasoften informed by religious
rules, also.
Having worked with bothindividual clients in unhealthy
marriages and couples who werestruggling, I believed that
staying married for the kids isnearly always a losing
proposition, and one that couldhave a more negative outcome for
(01:52):
the kids than, as we say today,consciously uncoupling.
And honestly, the family unittoday can look quite different
from mom, dad, and 2.1 kids thatwe've held up as the ideal for
so long.
My guest today, CherieBergeron, didn't allow the
programming, you need to find aman and get married before kids,
to prevent her from achievingher dream of having her own
(02:14):
children.
Her road to that decision,however, certainly wasn't easy.
And before we're done today,we're going to have Cherie
answer the question (02:21):
what is the biggest myth women are told
about motherhood?
Cherie is an author, blogger,public speaker, trained life
coach, and founder of thenonprofit Cherie's Choice,
guiding women throughalternative paths to motherhood.
Following a successful careerin IT, Cherie now helps single
women weigh their options,navigate fertility challenges,
(02:43):
and build families on their ownterms.
Her personal fertility journeyincluded becoming a mother
without a partner through IVFtreatments and donor conception.
In her teaching memoir, MissionMotherhood, Cherie shares her
experiences with relationships,workplace challenges, and
choosing motherhood after 40.
She details her struggles withIVF and the realities of, quote,
(03:06):
geriatric pregnancy.
Welcome to No Shrinking Violet,Cherie.
Oh, thank you so much, Mary.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Yeah, and I'm looking forwardto jumping into this topic.
Um, but I would love to startif you could tell us a little
about your your story.
Like, what do you think weresort of the big events or the
flashball moments along the waythat fueled your mission?
Cheri (03:29):
Sure.
Well, I think I, like so manywomen, started really by
pursuing my career.
And I had two dreams.
One was to take the corporateworld by storm.
And then the other really wasthis fairy tale of love and
marriage and family.
And because I was raised in atraditional household, I took
that for granted, that I wouldjust organically meet the right
(03:51):
person, children would naturallycome and we would live happily
ever after.
But when you're really pursuingyour career and you're a strong
woman, it doesn't always happenthat way.
And so I went on thismerry-go-round of relationships.
And I really did believe that Ihad to have a husband in order
to have a child.
And so, but I had false starts,relationships that didn't work
(04:15):
out.
And in a lot of cases, theywould always fall apart with the
question do I see myself havingchildren with this person?
Because I had a somewhattroubled uh upbringing.
I had alcoholism in my family,and I saw some things about my
parents' relationship that Ididn't want to repeat.
(04:35):
And so that was always thatsort of the rubber would hit the
road at that point, and I'dfind myself back at square one.
And then the, you know, theclock keeps ticking and louder
and louder.
And at 36, I decided to settlefor someone who looked good on
paper because of the urgency ofbecoming a mother.
(04:56):
And that had fairly disastrousresults, as you can imagine.
Um, I thought I would magicallyget pregnant.
And at 37, I didn't, and at 38,I didn't, at 39, I didn't.
At 40, I showed up at thefertility doctor's office and
learned some of the brutal truthabout reproductive timelines.
And so, you know, that reallywas a big part of my 10-year
(05:20):
journey to become a mother.
I had my children at 44 and umwhat two weeks shy of my 47th
birthday.
Wow.
So better late than never, Isuppose.
And that certainly was true forme.
But that really, all thoseexperiences have fueled my
mission now to really help womenmake choices with greater
(05:43):
clarity and confidence inchoice.
And so that's why I started thenonprofit Cherise Choice.
Mary (05:48):
And we will talk more about that and what that mission
is.
You know, it's it's interestingbecause that of course mirrors
my own journey because you keepyou keep thinking, you know, I'm
looking for that person.
I need to wait to have thechildren.
And I think there's also wehave this idea that when we're
ready, it's just gonna happen.
Magically.
unknown (06:09):
Yeah.
Mary (06:09):
And when I'm sure for you, as the months went by and it
wasn't happening, I can't evenimagine what that felt like for
you.
Cheri (06:17):
There's this tension that builds in women.
And part of it too is is theresomething wrong with me?
Am I going to miss out on mychance?
Have my past decisionsdisqualified myself from
motherhood?
Those messages come from us,but they also come from society.
And some of them even came frommy family members.
And so, you know, you reallystruggle with what is the right
(06:41):
decision.
And ultimately, I had to say,you know what?
I feel so strongly that it's mypurpose to become a mother that
I'm gonna do this on my own.
And that was really a freeingmoment for me because prior to
that, I felt very powerless.
And that was a way for me toreclaim my power.
Mary (06:59):
Yeah.
So you stepped out of thenarrative, really, right?
Because you had to say, I'mgonna do this in a way that
there are still some facets ofsociety that that give the side
eye to that.
That what do you mean you'regonna decide as a single woman
that's not fair to the childrenor you know, all of those
narratives, you had the courageto step away from that.
(07:21):
But you weren't, you were notdivorced yet, correct?
Cheri (07:25):
Well, so I I love you've done all your research.
So I um really force-fit thatfairy tale and realized once I
was married that it was notgoing to be a good fit.
And one of the things that Ireally didn't want to do was
subject my children to adysfunctional relationship
(07:46):
because I felt like that wasreally the greatest damage.
So there were some things thathappened, and as you know, I
encountered child loss.
And that is one of the things,even in a strong marriage, that
really tests a marriage.
But in a weak marriage, it wasreally the final straw that
broke the camel's back.
And so while we were stillmarried, um, he had made the
(08:09):
decision he didn't want to beinvolved with any children if we
weren't together.
And I had made the decisionthat I absolutely wanted to
become a mother with or withouthim.
And so we kind of had thatagreement, but we were separated
before I actually knew that Iwas pregnant.
The um we did have sharedembryos, though.
So that is kind of where theconnection was.
Mary (08:31):
Okay.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat process about like the
shared embryos.
How does that happen?
Ivy, for people who may haveheard stories or are thinking
about this themselves, what wasthat like?
What were some of thechallenges?
Cheri (08:47):
Sure.
Well, it's sort of taking thetraditional egg meat sperm into
the laboratory instead of thebedroom is really how I think
about it.
So eggs are harvested.
In my case, I used an egg donorbecause at 40 we discovered
that my uh my egg res my ovarianreserve was not very good.
(09:08):
And so I learned using ayounger donor that my odds of
having a successful pregnancywould be roughly the same as
hers.
So if I got 27-year-old eggs,then I kind of became a
27-year-old again, which feltpretty good.
And um, and then he sort ofmade his deposit, you know, and
(09:29):
then these ingredients areintroduced and embryos are
formed outside the womb, andthen they are transferred into
uh into the woman.
And so that's kind of how IVFworks.
And um, so you definitely get alittle bit of a head start uh
outside of the body.
(09:50):
And I was pregnant with twins.
Oh wow.
Yeah.
Okay.
And that's not that uncommonthough, correct?
Well, in my case, I decided totransfer to because I had had
loss before, and I thought,well, let's do a one and done
sort of situation in this case,kind of let's be complete.
(10:10):
Yeah.
Didn't quite work out that wayeither.
But um, you know, that was thethat was the plan in my case.
In a lot of other cases, uh,women may have more eggs
released and they get multiplebirths because of that.
But that's a somewhat differentapproach than mine.
Yeah.
Mary (10:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, as you're tellingthis story, and it strikes me
that there must have been timesthrough all of this that were
very lonely for you.
Cheri (10:38):
Oh my gosh.
That that's an understatement,I think, because even when a
woman is married and in a goodrelationship, I think that
infertility is very isolatingbecause it strikes at a core of
what we consider as part of usbeing a woman, being able to
conceive, carry, and deliver achild.
And so there's so many ups anddowns in that process.
(11:02):
And other people can'tnecessarily relate.
Your husband can't relate,right?
They don't know much about thatprocess.
And at least mine wasn't veryemotionally intelligent.
Uh, your parents had success,you know, and perhaps didn't
head that down this road.
Your friends at this point areall having families seemingly
(11:24):
easily.
And so, you know, there weren'ta lot of places to go.
I did find some friends whowere walking that same journey,
and I really recommend thatbecause it can really have
issues with your mental health.
And so, you know, I tell womenyou gotta find somebody.
And sometimes if it's reallyrough, your closest friends
(11:45):
can't be those people becauseit's too difficult.
It's too painful.
Yeah.
Mary (11:50):
Well, and it's painful, I think, to see it even when you
find people walking that journeywith you, if they are able to
conceive before you are, I'msure that there then there is
another issue that you have toaccommodate somewhere in your
heart.
Cheri (12:07):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, yeah, it's like you'veread the book.
So that happened to me.
Um, I had a dear friend who wasgoing through this at the same
time I was.
I was a little bit ahead ofher.
I was pregnant and then endedup losing that child right
around the time that shedetermined that she was
pregnant.
And it was very difficult forme to, for one, I didn't want to
(12:32):
diminish her happiness for amoment, but I on I had to be
authentic too, and I had togrieve.
And so I had let her know thatI felt like I had to step away
for a while to heal because thiswas a late, late stage loss,
you know.
So I knew it was a girl, shewas having a girl.
It was really, reallydifficult.
(12:53):
And that ended our friendshipbecause she didn't understand
why I had to go away, even as tome, as communicative as I was,
as as well-intentioned as I was,and told her how I just didn't
want to diminish her happiness,she still didn't understand.
And so one thing I find is thatwhen there's loss, there's
(13:13):
ripple effects to that loss.
And there can be more than oneloss that happens.
For sure.
Mary (13:20):
Well, and I think too, we're we're coming into an age
where I think we are morewilling to, as women, tell our
own stories.
So for instance, I think aboutmenopause.
For for my mom, who would be 98if she was living, they didn't
really talk about it.
They suffered in silence, theydidn't compare notes.
So until recently, we didn'trealize, oh my God, everybody's
(13:42):
going through this because we'revery good at hiding things.
And I think about that as thecase with a lot of times
miscarrying or losing a childlike that.
Cheri (13:50):
Very true, very true, especially when people don't
know that you were pregnant.
In my case, I had announced itall over the place because I was
so elated after so many yearsof infertility.
And then when that happens,nobody wants to talk to you at
all because they don't know whatto say to you.
And so, yes, again, a veryisolating process.
(14:12):
But we should assure your readyour listeners that there's a
happy ending to this too.
Yeah, we're getting a littlebit more.
Please don't reach don't reachfor the shot at uh, you know,
whatever early morning time youmight be listening to this.
Yes, yes, because I want to Iwant to get to that actually
right now.
Mary (14:28):
How did you find the strength to stay the path?
Because now you are a mom.
Cheri (14:33):
Yes, and I have two children.
I have um a a daughter that isI co-parent with my ex now.
And then I had another child uhcompletely on my own Unisine
and anonymous sperm donor.
So I have a uh almost13-year-old and a 10-year-old at
(14:54):
this point.
Congratulations.
Mary (14:55):
That's exciting.
Yeah, that's great.
So, but within this, in alongwith your struggle personally,
like really trying to, you madeyour decision in a sense, you
were swimming upstreamsocietally because you're making
this choice.
Um, you had a lot of thesehurdles to overcome.
In the middle of that, therewas actually a custody battle,
(15:19):
right?
Cheri (15:21):
I mean, that's such a crazy part of it.
Yeah.
So I stayed legally married theentire time because we had a
business together.
We were just, I was living myown life, he was living his.
Uh we were co-parenting mydaughter.
And you may have noticed inthere, he actually changed his
(15:41):
mind about that because before Itransferred the eggs or the
embryos, he said he didn't wantto be involved.
So there was a change in there.
Yeah.
So we were just co-parenting,and you know, I went on to have
my own child.
I I used completely new embryosand and that sort of thing.
(16:01):
And seven years after weseparated, um, he sued me to try
to become his legal father.
And, you know, that was reallyinteresting because he wasn't
the biological father and hehadn't been living with him or
being in a fatherly role in anyway.
So that was a bit shocking, abit jarring and um infuriating,
(16:27):
actually, I'm sure.
But it really went to the coreof does a woman have the right
to pursue her own pregnancywhile still legally married, but
legally separated.
And that was really what waslandmark about the case, because
there are laws in I think everystate that say that if you have
(16:51):
a child during a marriage, thenthe man is the presumed father.
And so it was based on thatpresumption, even though he knew
that wasn't true, that the thecustody battle was about.
Mary (17:02):
Wow.
That that's a littlemind-blowing.
I don't I don't really kind ofunder I don't really kind of
understand why that would haveeven become a thing.
Cheri (17:18):
Uh you know, I have to agree with you on that.
Um I can't explain what I hismotivations were.
I have some theories, but Idon't know.
And all I knew was that Ididn't want my child to have to
live a lie, and I wasn't goingto allow it to the extent that I
(17:41):
was able.
So I fought and ultimately thejudge agreed.
Yeah.
Well, I'm glad about that.
Oh, me too.
Me too.
It creates some complexitiesbecause we do share a daughter,
you know.
So there's so this is a hugefuel behind my motivation to
help women make better choicesfrom the beginning.
(18:02):
Because if I had not felt thatI had to force fit things in
order to become a mother, thenthere would not have been these
ripple effects.
But of course, you know, I'mthrilled that I have my
daughter.
There are things that we wouldnever take back, and she is
glorious.
And so, but you do have tothink that maybe it could be
done with a little bit lesspain.
Mary (18:24):
Well, and yeah, and that's where you come in with the help
that you offer.
Cheri (18:29):
Right, right.
Exactly.
That's the goal.
Mary (18:31):
Yeah.
Cheri (18:32):
That's the goal.
Mary (18:33):
So, one thing before we segue into that, I'm curious
about where do you think yourresilience came from?
Because there had to be hardmoments.
Cheri (18:43):
Oh, there were so many hard moments.
I would say it came from thefact that one, I'm tremendously
stubborn.
I think that was just a qualitythat I have.
Um, but to me, that was also Iwas resolute.
I I had this sense that I wouldnot be fulfilled if I didn't
become a mother.
And that's not to say that thatis true of every person.
(19:07):
I don't believe that you haveto be a mother to be a fulfilled
person.
But my personal conviction wasthat this was super important to
me, that I had gotten throughprobably about 15 to 20 years of
my career and felt like, isthis all there is?
And I knew that as much timeand passion and energy as I put
(19:30):
into it, a few weeks after I wasgone, it probably wouldn't
matter.
And I wanted to do somethingthat mattered.
Mary (19:36):
Yeah.
Cheri (19:36):
And to me, motherhood was really one of those things that
would be enduring and wouldreally matter.
And now I know through thatjourney that I have an
opportunity to do more thingsthat are enduring and hopefully
that will matter.
So uh finding a new purposeoutside of that previous career
was such a gift.
Yeah.
Mary (19:55):
Well, and that's one of the things that we've started
off talking about.
How women have this sort oftimeline.
Like, I want to get establishedin my career.
And I've asked this question ofother guests, and I usually get
the answer, no, this was myjourney.
I wouldn't change anything.
But knowing what you know now,would you have done things in a
different order or a differentway?
(20:15):
Do you think?
Cheri (20:17):
I would have made a plan.
I think that is the thing.
So we as women plan ourcareers, we plan other aspects
of our lives, we plan oursavings, we plan our retirement,
we plan all these things.
But when it comes tomotherhood, we go, oh gosh, I
hope, you know, and we we sortof give away our power in that
area.
(20:37):
Medical science has gotten to apoint where we don't have to do
that anymore.
And so I am an advocate offreezing eggs.
I think that if you really feelstrongly that you want to have
children that are geneticallyyours, then that is, you know,
some a step you can take to helpincrease your chances.
It's not a guarantee, but it isa bit of an insurance policy so
(21:02):
that you can extend your timeframe.
Um, I went into my fertilityblindly.
I looked at the society and thefact that celebrities were
having babies in their 40s andtheir 50s, and I thought, oh,
we're good.
Medical science is going tohave my back when I'm ready.
And that wasn't actually true.
Society doesn't tell us thefull truth about what that
(21:25):
means.
So, yes, I found a way, butcould there have been other
paths that would have been lesscostly, less emotionally
draining, less painful?
Yeah, I think there could havebeen.
So I really encourage women totake control of their fertility
and make a plan.
Yeah.
And that's part of what we workon.
(21:46):
And that's what you're what youdo through Cherie's choice,
correct?
Right.
Right.
And and a big part of that isgetting to women younger.
You know, we have sex ed inmiddle school before kids need
it, but there's no fertilityeducation for young women.
There's no fertility educationin college unless you happen to
(22:07):
be getting a medical degree or aphysiology degree or something
like that.
Women deserve to have thisinformation at the same time
we're telling them other thingsabout their lives.
And so that's a real passion ofmine.
Mary (22:20):
Well, and I think having gone through being certified in
functional nutrition myself andhaving a whole section on the
reproductive system, and alsoknowing that I think it's
something like 2% of fundedresearch is in the area of
women.
And that's largely women duringreproductive age.
So knowing all of that'salready stacked against us,
(22:42):
things like polycystic ovariandisease and endometriosis, all
of those things I think are notonly misunderstood, but again,
anytime we have pain orsomething's not right, I think
we can have that tendency aswomen to be like, well, it must
be me.
I'm doing something wrong.
Or so I think understandingthat and advocating for our own
(23:04):
needs and when we feel likesomething's not right, like you
had that instinct in yourmarriage.
Like, I don't want a parentwith this as this person as my
husband, right?
That was not something.
So is as we think about all ofthose issues that present
themselves, is that somethingthat you weave in?
Because you talk about gettingto women earlier.
(23:24):
How does that factor into yourmission?
Cheri (23:27):
Well, I think it really is having that foundation of
information and reallyunderstanding from the beginning
that this is a choice, that wedo have some beliefs that we
were raised with, but isn'tcollege about really learning
and claiming your own truth?
And so for me, I just adoptedthe values that I was taught
(23:49):
without considering that theremight be other options.
And so I think getting thatsense that there are multiple
paths to motherhood, there's notjust one way, starts to make us
feel empowered and that we knowthat now we have this
foundation of knowledge that wecan draw upon and make good
decisions for ourselves and ourfuture children along the way.
(24:11):
And that's just something thatI didn't have.
So that's the gift that I wantto give to younger, the younger
generations.
Mary (24:18):
Yeah.
And it's so important.
And I think also if we lookhistorically, I think women
tended to create more of acommunity to help each other
with parenting.
I think this idea of you haveto find a male partner and have
a marriage and then havechildren, that's a little bit
newer.
It's very informed by a lot oftimes religious ideas and
(24:40):
societal ideas.
But if we look historicallycenturies ago, it is that idea
of it takes a village.
And women helped each otherwith supporting each other in
their parenting.
Cheri (24:52):
I think there are many women today who are sitting in a
nuclear family saying, Wow, Iwish I had that village back.
unknown (24:58):
Yeah.
Cheri (24:59):
And a lot of times a nuclear family is maybe even
more isolated, especially ifyour other family members don't
live close by.
I think a single mother bychoice intentionally creates a
village beyond what sometimes anuclear family does.
And, you know, the fact is, ourkids learn from so many
(25:21):
sources.
They need all kinds of rolemodels, and parents can't always
fill all of those needs.
And so I think it really issmart to have a group of people
around you that love your childand want the best for your
child.
So, you know, I think it's agreat approach.
Mary (25:38):
So if there's someone listening who is struggling
right now with infertility, whatis some of the advice that you
might give her?
Cheri (25:46):
I mean, for one, I would just say my heart is with you.
Um, I for anyone who'sstruggling with infertility, I
know that pain.
And I want you to know that youaren't alone and to really
reach out.
What for one, I'm giving you avirtual hug right now.
I mean, you know, that's Ithink the thing that you need to
know that it's it's going to beokay and that there is support
(26:12):
for you.
There are fertility coaches,there are a number of
nonprofits.
I mean, you can you can directmessage me.
Um, you know, I'm verypassionate that no woman feel
alone in this process.
So that would be the firstthing.
The other thing is really knowwhat you want.
Know what your non-negotiablesare.
(26:33):
Every woman has the right tosay, I choose to become a
mother.
Um, I won't become a mother ifthey're not genetically mine.
As Jennifer Aniston just cameout and said, that that was one
of her non-negotiables.
That's fine.
You know, that's perfectlyacceptable.
For me, I said, you know,genetics don't matter for me.
(26:53):
I want a healthy child that Ican invest in and nurture.
And so that was my big thing.
But I would say that, and thenseek out what your options are
because there are many morepaths to motherhood than you may
be aware of.
I started with foster parentingbefore I actually went on my
(27:14):
DIY approach to motherhood.
So, you know, there are many,many paths, and you really have
to figure out which one is rightfor you.
Mary (27:21):
Yeah, and we don't always do a good job, I think, as
women, in accepting that someoneelse's choices are different
than ours.
So I think that's also findingwho will support you because it
won't be everyone.
Like you pointed that out.
There were people where, youknow, you thought this is going
to be a source of support.
And at some point it's like,oh, wait a minute, this isn't
(27:42):
quite going as I anticipated,but there are people that will
support you.
It just might be not be thepeople you think.
Cheri (27:49):
That's right.
And and I think we do we havecome further in society
understanding that family isoften something that you choose
based on shared values asopposed to something you're
bored into.
A lot of people didn't getsupport from their family of
origin.
And they really have to findpeople who are committed to
them, who are supportive ofthem, and who are accepting of
(28:11):
them.
And if you don't have thosethings in your family, it's time
to get a new one because youknow, life is too short to have
to live it with that kind ofcondemnation.
And in my case, really religiondid play a role in that.
And, you know, I really feelthat at the heart of any
religion is love.
And that's the journey I wason.
(28:32):
So, you know, whatever yourkind of, you know, your brand of
religion is apparently doesn'twork with me because, you know,
I'm leading from a place oflove.
Mary (28:41):
So tell us a little bit.
Um, you have great resources.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat what is in your book or
what what we can expect fromyour book and also where to find
you.
And of course, I'll link it allin the show notes.
Cheri (28:54):
Sure, sure.
Well, I wrote the book in the Idecided that I needed to write
the book when I was in themiddle of the custody battle
because I was in a crisis.
I was thinking to myself, whyis this happening to me?
And it was this moment of totalsurrender, Mary.
And I said, you know, just why?
(29:15):
Why is this happening?
And the answer I got back was,you're going through this so you
can help other women becomemothers.
And so I felt driven to writethis book to really share what
the experience of infertilitywas like.
And it is unflinching.
So, you know, it it may not bethe best choice for someone
who's in the middle of aninfertility crisis themselves,
(29:38):
because it is very raw.
But if you want to know you'renot alone, boy, will you know
that.
It's also, though, meant toshow people how I arrived at
this other path and how Idecided to cast aside old fairy
tales.
So, you know, that it's a greatchoice if you want to help
support someone, understand whatinfertility is about.
(29:59):
I think.
It's a great resource.
Um, Cherie's Choice is reallyjust meant to give women the
tools.
So there's a lot of resourceson the site.
Uh, we are going to startoffering workshops for women
after the first of the yearwhere you can really explore
what your priorities are and thepaths to motherhood and things
(30:21):
like that.
So that's really what that iswhat the uh nonprofit is about.
And we also intend to providecounseling for women so that
they could bounce those ideasoff someone and really feel that
they had the opportunity toprocess what their priorities
are.
I love all the parts of that.
Mary (30:40):
That is so great because I feel like almost I can almost
feel that when certain peopleare listening to this, they're
going to feel a sense of hopebecause just hearing your story,
first of all, it's it to me, assomeone who certainly hasn't
been through it, but knowspeople who have struggled with
some parts of this, it's justamazing to me that you have such
(31:04):
an ability to bounce back andthen not just bounce back, but
go beyond that and say, I'mactually gonna first of all, I
have a book coming out thebeginning of the year.
So I know the work that goesinto a book.
Yeah.
Um, so good for you for that.
And then all the other things.
It's just like I, it's justamazing.
So I'm gonna link all that inthe show notes so everyone can
(31:26):
have it if they need it.
That's great.
Cheri (31:28):
You know, I and I think women through these generations,
we've kind of been told we'reless than, that we're a lower
priority, that we are just meantto be a selfless and kind of in
the, you know, in the shadowsto the side.
I don't think we realize howpowerful we truly are.
We are the only beings that areactually able to give life.
(31:52):
And so, you know, I reallythink it's time that we reclaim
a lot of that power, bothpersonally in our
self-confidence and, you know,physically in what we can do.
So I think, I think we've beenlong underrated as a gender, and
it's time for us to to stepinto that, you know, really that
that greatness, that divinitythat we have.
(32:14):
So I think it's it's wonderful.
Mary (32:16):
Yeah, I couldn't agree with that more.
And it's partly why I named mypodcast No Shrinking Violets,
because violets have always beenunderestimated because when
they rest, they close up and wethink that's weakness, and it's
not.
So, you know, it's a re veryresilient plant.
So I do believe that we havenarratives that hold us back.
And once we can really listen,like you had to listen inside of
(32:40):
you.
And once you did that, that'swhere our power grows.
You're right.
So, okay, so we teased this.
Um, and I think people couldprobably sum it up.
But tell me, what do you thinkis the biggest myth women are
told about motherhood?
Cheri (32:54):
Yeah.
That there's only one way, thatthere is a very linear
progression of how you become amother.
I really don't believe that'strue.
I think that if I had donethings a bit out of order and
let love find me in its owntime, and without the pressures
of feeling that I had to makethis happen now because of my
(33:15):
clock, I think I would have madebetter choices.
And so I, yeah, I say if youfeel compelled to become a
mother, if you feel that that'syour purpose, maybe we need to
write, rewrite the script alittle bit and choose motherhood
first and then let love findyou on its own time and for the
right reasons, because youdeserve both.
(33:38):
And a lot of women believe thatif I become a single mother,
that I'll never find love.
Well, that's just not true.
In fact, you will be in abetter position because you're
fulfilled, you're whole, you'reliving life on your own terms.
That's the best way to meetsomeone who you want to spend
your life with.
So, you know, I think again,when we when we change the order
(34:02):
of things, when we stop livingby somebody else's rules, that's
when real freedom comes in.
Mary (34:08):
For sure.
That's a beautiful way to sayall that.
I'm so glad you were heretoday.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story.
Cheri (34:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
What an honor to be with you.
Thank you.
Mary (34:19):
And I want to thank everyone for listening.
So if you're interested inliving from your true nature and
using the lessons of nature tohelp you set boundaries, build
resilience, and thrive, sign upfor my launch team for my book,
Nature Knows, which is comingout next year.
You will only get emailperiodically with updates and
fun-free stuff, including anaudio of one of my book
(34:40):
chapters.
You can find the link in theshow notes.
And until next time, go outinto the world and be the
amazing, resilient, vibrantviolet that you are.
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