November 27, 2025 • 38 mins
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What if the view you want is earned one painful step, one quiet choice, and one stubborn breath at a time? We sit down with author and endurance athlete Dianette Wells to trace the arc from a spontaneous Mount Whitney climb to seven summits, multi-day eco challenges, and the mindset that makes impossible goals workable. The conversation is raw and practical: how teams win by protecting their slowest moments, why fueling and hydration are non-negotiable, and how to switch off the inner critic without losing your edge.
Dianette opens up about the tension between ambition and motherhood—those tearful calls, the unfair questions in sponsor meetings, and the relief of showing her kids what joy in action looks like. We talk about building resilience through small daily choices, visualizing the peak while managing the next hour, and using strategy over bravado when the weather turns or the plan breaks. If you’ve ever wondered how to hold big dreams alongside real-life responsibilities, this is a masterclass in presence.
We also honor the life and legacy of her son, Johnny—an extraordinary athlete whose courage and appetite for flight pushed the boundaries of what a day can hold. The grief of losing him is neither minimized nor sensationalized; it’s carried. Movement becomes medicine, community becomes a lifeline, and purpose becomes a way forward. Deanette’s mantra—do it anyway—lands as both challenge and comfort: start where you are, take the next step, and let momentum find you.
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You can find Dianette HERE.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mary (00:05):
Welcome to No Shrinking Violets.
I'm your host, Mary Rothwell,licensed therapist and certified
integrative mental healthpractitioner.
I've created a space where wecelebrate the intuition and
power of women who want to breakfree from limiting narratives.
We'll explore all realms ofwellness, what it means to take
up space unapologetically, andhow your essential nature is key
(00:28):
to living life on your terms.
It's time to own your space,trust your nature, and flourish.
Let's dive in.
Hey Violets, welcome to theshow.
Twenty-five years ago, I metSteve.
Three and a half years later,he would become my first
husband.
But a few months after we firstmet, he left to hike the
(00:49):
Pacific Crest Trail.
It is a 2,650-milelong-distance hiking trail that
traverses California, Oregon,and Washington states from the
border of Mexico to the Canadianborder.
It wasn't his firstlong-distance hike.
My hiking experience was littleto none.
He and I had done a few shortbackpacking trips during the
(01:10):
first months of dating,something I never thought I
would do in spite of loving theoutdoors, and I found I did love
the freedom of sleeping outsideand walking each day with no
other demands.
When he suggested that I flyout to California to join him on
the PCT, I initially andimmediately said, no.
I had none of my own gear, andthere was no way I was in the
(01:32):
shape I needed to be to land at8,000 feet of elevation and walk
for an average of 20 miles perday with 40 to 50 pounds on my
back.
However, it's hard for me tosidestep a challenge.
I started to imagine it mightbe possible.
So I started to read andresearch gear, and I also
started to hike every weekendwith weight on my back.
(01:53):
I trained my legs on a climbingmachine, and just two months
after Steve started his hike, Iflew out and joined him.
Let's just say that jumpinginto the middle of a through
hike with someone who is notonly more fit and experienced,
but who had been hiking everysingle day for the past 60 days
was a little bit harder than Iimagined, especially the 8,000
(02:15):
feet of elevation.
I was nauseous for most of thefirst three to four days, which
made getting the calories Ineeded a challenge.
My pack felt like it weighed aton.
We were going uphill much ofthe way.
At one point, we needed to hikeHat Creek Rim, a 30-mile
stretch with no water source, in95 plus degree heat, with about
(02:36):
three trees for shade theentire time.
One gallon of water weighseight pounds.
So you can imagine the load wecarried to get us through that
part of the trail.
Most days my feet were bleedingor my toenails were infected
from constantly being jammedagainst the front of my boots on
downhills.
I will spare you the gorydetails.
But the 214 miles I proudlyhiked allowed me to find
(02:59):
strength and test my newrelationship in ways I never
knew possible.
And I'll be honest, I was ableto use that experience and what
I endured and overcame as fuelto get me through many of life's
challenges.
Although it was a physicalchallenge, it really was nearly
90% mindset.
So when I have difficulties atwork or in other situations, I
remember how I felt looking atMount Shasta on the final day of
(03:22):
my part of the hike, knowingthat no one could see that view
I had without getting there inthe same way that I had.
It was humbling andexhilarating.
So when I read about DeanetteWells, I was humbled in an
entirely different way.
What she has accomplished,well, it's nothing short of
amazing.
Deanette is the author ofAnother Step Up the Mountain.
(03:43):
She has taken on amazingphysical accomplishments,
including conquering the sevensummits, which include Everest,
Kilimanjaro, and Denali.
She has also raced 150 plusmiles across deserts, biked
across America, and competed inmultiple eco challenges and
ultramarathons worldwide.
And she has experiencedprofound loss from divorce
(04:06):
through losing her son Johnny,himself an amazing athlete that
pushed boundaries and died doingwhat he loved.
Her journey of conqueringphysical challenges that most of
us would never consider, bothfueled and were dwarfed by her
journey to overcome loss andfully live again.
Welcome to No Shrinking VioletsDNA.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
(04:27):
So thank you for toleratingthat very long introduction.
But as I told her before Istarted hit to hit record,
there's a lot of things thatresonate.
So I can't wait to sort of diginto all that.
But I wondered if you couldstart by giving us a brief
overview of your journey fromhow you knew you wanted to
discover all of those physicalchallenges to a little bit about
(04:49):
your personal losses along theway.
Dianette (04:57):
But I was just drawn to Mount Whitney and, you know,
finally getting a bunch ofgirlfriends to do it with me.
And we had no idea what we weredoing.
But it it hit my soul hard thatthis is what I'm supposed to be
doing.
And then it was, what's what'sthe next thing?
What's the next thing?
And and you know, before youknow it, there's 26 years of all
(05:19):
of these adventures and youknow, races and climbs that, you
know, kind of have made up mylife.
And um, and all those things,the physicality of those things
is what really got me throughum, you know, my divorce, the
loss of my son, just hard times.
And just even when I would justhike first thing in the
(05:41):
morning, that set the tone forthe rest of my day.
And, you know, it's physicalactivity is a great thing.
Mary (05:49):
Okay, so you're saying physical activity.
And anybody that just heardthat intro is like, um, that's a
little bit more than physicalactivity.
So the one thing that struck mein part of your story that I've
heard heard you tell is thatpart about Mount Whitney that,
and I I'm thinking you had like10 girlfriends that went with
you, right?
I don't think I have one thatwould be like, oh yeah, let's do
(06:11):
that.
So tell us what, first of all,what was that like?
Was it one day, multiple days?
Dianette (06:17):
So um you can do multiple days on Whitney or in
overnight, but I have I just nowon October 1st um did it for
the 17th time, and it was my15th summit of it.
Um, I've always done it in justa day because there's a motel
close by, I want a nice bed, andI want dinner.
Um it's funny because sometimesdepending on who I'm climbing
(06:39):
with, we don't make it down intime for dinner.
So um that that is the goal isto always be down in time to
eat.
And you know, it was just thisthing of I don't know, I had no
expectations, didn't know if wewould sum it, but when my soul
did it and knew, oh, this iswhat I'm supposed to be doing,
just everything flowed intoplace.
(07:01):
And then it was, you know, onething flowed after the other.
And thankfully, I still have acrazy group of friends who say
yes to doing this stuff.
And uh one of my friends whowent with me, this last one,
it's now her seventh timeclimbing it.
So, you know, it's good to havefun, crazy friends.
Mary (07:20):
Yeah.
So it's interesting you saythat you'd like to have dinner,
you know, because you'vecertainly done things where the
dinner is like on your back,right?
You're carrying what you'regetting.
You're lucky.
Right, right.
So can you think of a timewhere there was something
happening and you really had topush through wanting to quit?
Dianette (07:42):
Oh, every um adventure race.
I started climbing, then I wentto adventure racing.
And adventure racing, you'renot guaranteed any meal or any
food because it's what you cancarry, but you also have to move
very fast.
So you could go a few dayswithout eating much.
Um, like I say in the book,there's one part of this river,
(08:04):
and we're going over theseboulders, and there was a wet
wheat thin on the rock.
And I scraped it off and ateit.
unknown (08:10):
Oh my god.
Dianette (08:12):
I know it sounds disgusting, but I was grateful
for this wheat then.
Um, and now I when I'm at thegrocery store and I see a box of
wheat thins, and I know I couldbuy, you know, multiple boxes.
Like, okay, okay.
So, you know, I I do know whatit's like to be very hungry, and
and then you have to laugh andsay, Well, you put yourself in
this position, so go with it,stick with it.
(08:33):
And yeah, the quitting, youknow, physically, anything over
24 hours, your body is justsaying, No, we're done.
We could go home and sleep in anice bed and sit on the couch.
But that's when your mind kicksin and reminds you, hey, you
paid to be here, you're havingfun, look around you, you're
(08:55):
seeing things that most peoplewill never see.
So suck it up.
And then I also think I remindmyself, okay, if you quit right
now and you're, you know, in therestaurant at the hotel, are
you gonna be bummed that you'resitting there?
Or would you rather be outhere?
And that's what does it for me.
I would always rather be backout on the race course.
Mary (09:12):
I think the the different things that you do all seem like
they require somethingdifferent.
Like the running is differentthan the climbing, right?
It's sort of a different, evenclimbing.
I have not done a lot of that,but I that's more really
strategic in a sense.
Is that right?
Like thinking about what is myroute and how am I gonna get
there?
Dianette (09:33):
No, racing is very strategic.
Um you know, that's why youwant the best navigator.
You want um a really great setof um, and I always race with
three men.
I want the strongest and best.
And yeah, adventure racing ismuch more strategic than
climbing.
I mean, climbing is usually theroute is fixed and it's known
(09:53):
because I'm not putting up anynew routes.
Um yeah, no, I'm not that good.
Um and you're usually in a tentby dark and having a proper
meal and sleeping in a warmsleeping bag.
And it's you know, the mainthing with climbing is weather.
And if the weather's not good,you stay in your tent.
Denali, we had storm afterstorm after storm and had a lot
(10:14):
of downtime in the tent.
And, you know, but that'sreally the the main thing.
But racing, adventure racing isjust a whole other beast.
But best time of my life.
Mary (10:26):
Well, thinking about that wheat thin, I know on the
Pacific Crest Trail, there weresome water sources.
I mean, you have to literallyyou have a water bottle and
you're pushing aside sort of thealgae and the so you know, when
I think about having done that,it's like, oh my gosh, but you
when you're in the moment,you're just doing it.
Dianette (10:47):
Yeah, you have to be careful.
I have had giardia andleptospirosis.
Um, yeah, I've I've die heaveddirt because I drank dirt by
accident.
Um, so water I'm pretty carefulwith.
I have a dairy pen.
Um, I have the iodine tablets.
Yeah, and the problem withhydration is once you start to
(11:10):
get dehydrated, it's so hard tocatch back up.
Um, and I've had multiple timeswhere I'm pounding water and
I'm still so thirsty, and I'mrealizing uh-oh, I'm past the
point of, you know, it's hard toget the train back on the
tracks once you've gotten tothat point.
Mary (11:27):
Yeah.
Yeah, because they say onceyou're thirsty, that's too far.
You've gone too far.
Yeah.
So can you tell us a little bitwhat an eco challenge is and
what that was like?
Dianette (11:39):
Well, if you go on to Amazon Prime, it's called
World's Toughest Race EcoChallenge.
And if you watch that series,it will give you a great view of
what it is and and what it isversus say an ultra where you
run, you know, my ultras areusually 150 miles plus.
A bike event, you're justbiking.
(12:00):
Um, mountaineering, you'reclimbing, but an adventure race
puts, you know, multiple five toeight, ten different sports all
in one race, all non-motorized.
So you can maybe hike or run a24-hour section and then go
paddle for 50 miles and thenjump on a bike and then do
ropes.
(12:20):
I mean, it's it really dependson the topography of the land
and what the race organizerswant to do.
But it's just it's a really funmulti-day, multi-sport,
non-stop race on your markets atgo, usually a team of four, one
person of the opposite sex, andyou have to stay together and
you have to finish together.
(12:41):
And if one person drops out,you're all out.
So it's, you know, you reallyhave to build each other up and
stay together.
And you are only as fast asyour slowest person.
So it behooves you to have areally good, strong team.
Mary (12:57):
So in that situation, it's I I think of two things.
One, it keep probably keeps yougoing because you have a sense
of sort of responsibility, butthere's also maybe frustration
if you are not the slowest one,or as they say, the weakest
link.
So that must be toughsometimes.
It's hard.
Dianette (13:16):
I mean, I have been in every position where I have
felt the strongest and like,okay, let's go, let's go.
And I've also been the weakest.
And just it's horrible to bethe weakest because the guilt is
horrible, and you know you'reletting your teammates down.
You know, so when someone isbeing the weakest on the team
(13:36):
and I know that, you know,they're trying their hardest and
they didn't do this on purpose,then yeah, it's just it's
almost relief that, oh, thankGod, it's not me.
And you do what you can to helpthem.
Um, I was on a team where, youknow, someone pretty blatantly
put themselves in that position,you know, didn't take care of
themselves, started off being onsome diet.
(13:58):
It just you can't race and beon a diet.
It's sugar, salt, fat, carbs,as much as you can get.
I mean, you wouldn't go homeand eat like that, but during
the race, you need salt and youneed sugar and you need fat.
And um yeah, you just you dowhatever it takes.
Mary (14:16):
Yeah.
Okay, so I'm gonna take alittle bit of a side road
because first of all, one of thethings that I love about your
story is you recognized yourpassion and you didn't, well,
I'm gonna, I'm not gonna say youdidn't.
I don't know.
I think sometimes when we thinkabout doing something big, the
first voice in our head is,yeah, but like, are you sure you
(14:37):
want to do this?
So before I ask my nextquestion, did you have that
internal critic or arguer that'slike, what are you thinking?
Dianette (14:46):
I have that negative critic in my head 24-7.
And I'm really learning to tellthat voice to just, you know, S
T F U because it doesn't do usany good.
If we can have the negativevoice, why not replace it with a
positive voice?
And so I'm really trying thatwhen it starts, it's like, nope,
nope.
And then I replace it with apositive thought.
(15:07):
The start of every race line,it's like, oh, can I do this?
Which is part of the fun of theadventure.
If we showed up at every startline going, oh, this is easy, or
I've got this, where's the funin that?
Where's the adventure?
Um, and also, you know, whenyou get to the finish line, it's
much more amazing when youweren't 100% sure that you could
(15:28):
get there.
I mean, you hope for it and youplan on it, but it's like the
summit of a mountain.
I mean, when I started climbingMount Whitney on, you know, on
the first, I'm always nervousgetting out of the car and
wondering, okay, am I gonnatrip?
And how am I gonna feel once Iget to 10,000 feet?
Um, what's gonna happen?
And it just makes the summitthat much better.
(15:50):
But I can't imagine allowingthe negative voice in my head to
not allow me to get out of thecar.
So, you know, whatever it isthat you are passionate about or
want to do, tell that voicejust to zip it and do it
anyways.
Because what's the worst thathappens?
You don't finish, you don'tstart, you don't like it.
Okay, do something else, but atleast you tried because you'll
(16:13):
never know if you don't try.
Mary (16:15):
Yeah.
And I do know that myex-husband, anytime he starts a
through hike, even today, hedoesn't think about I'm going to
finish.
He plans as if he's going tofinish.
But sometimes that can get youinto situations that are
dangerous.
If you're not reading theterrain and recognizing,
especially in the mountains whenyou a blizzard can hit, you
know, all of those things Ithink are so important.
(16:36):
But I think there's so manyparallels to life just in in
climbing, because I think aboutlike you can't really look at
the top the whole time, right?
Because then you're like, am Iever going to get there?
But once you get there, theview is amazing.
Dianette (16:51):
Yeah.
And when you have a goal, it isimportant to I visualize.
Like when I did Everest, Ivisualized that summit over and
over and over again.
But then when you arrive, youknow, you have five to six weeks
before you're going to summit.
So if you just sat there forfive to six weeks and stressed
out over the summit, you youwouldn't last a week.
(17:13):
Um, so yeah, you focus on thesteps in front of you, the the
immediate task at hand and doingeverything right in preparation
for the summit.
But um, yeah, I when I go toclimb, I'm not hyper focused on
the summit.
It's my goal.
And it's, you know, I'm notignoring it, but I'm focusing on
hour by hour, step by step.
(17:34):
Oh, I need to eat something, Ineed to drink something, oh, I
need to shed a later layer oradd a layer.
So, because if you if you missone of those steps on your way
to the summit, you won't summit.
Mary (17:44):
Right.
Yeah.
So I know I have a lot of womenlistening that have children.
And when we have an idea as awoman, here's what I want to do.
Sometimes that voice can comein because it's saying, wait a
second, you're a mom.
So living for you, you know, wehave all these scripts about,
(18:07):
you know, I've had women say,Well, I feel like I'm being
selfish.
That seems to be the key word.
So, how did you manage to whatwas it like?
I'll say, what was it like tobe a mom and to do all of these
adventures and follow thatpassion at the same time?
Dianette (18:23):
Um, the amount of guilt was at times overwhelming
because I would always call mykids, you know, pretty much
every day.
And, you know, crying, comehome, come home.
It by this point I wasdivorced.
Um so you know, most of thetime they were with a babysitter
and and not with my ex.
(18:43):
But um, you know, it it's hard.
It's when I when I was homewith the kids, I was home.
I really didn't go out atnight, I wasn't a partier.
It's when I picked them up fromschool, it was all in.
Um so when I was there, I was100% there.
And when I was on a climb, um,you know, you notice later on,
(19:05):
they are watching and they'repaying attention and they're
seeing their mom be reallystrong and accomplish something.
And I feel like that made mykids feel like, oh, I can do
anything too.
Because if my mom, who youknow, I was a housewife sitting
on the couch, um, if she can dothis, God, I can do anything.
And I've seen them do this intheir lives.
(19:28):
Um, but yeah, the guilt ishorrible.
I I'm pretty sure I talk aboutthis in the book where you know,
the men aren't in tears afterthey get off the phone with
their kids because their wife istaking care of the kids.
Um, and it's, you know, I wouldget off the phone every day and
it was just brutal.
And when I'm on a mountain, I Iwould think, God, I am a
horrible mom.
I should be home with my kids.
(19:49):
What kind of, you know, momwould do this?
And then I'm home and I'mthinking about the next climb,
but yet fully enjoying everyminute of being a mom.
So, you know, the pull to be,you know, an athlete and a mom,
and I was really good at both.
So why should I have to give upeither one of those?
And yeah, it's it's a dilemmathat women face when when women
(20:13):
go to work in the mornings andthey leave their kids, or even
if they work from home and theyhave to close that door for
eight hours to get their jobdone.
I mean, there's terrible guiltwith that.
And, you know, I I think thatjust comes from we're moms and
we want to please everyone allthe time, but we're also humans
(20:33):
and we're women, and we areentitled to our own dreams as
well.
Would I want my daughters togive up their dreams just
because they're moms?
No, I I want my children tohave their dreams and to
accomplish them as well.
Mary (20:47):
Yeah.
Dianette (20:48):
And we can do both.
It's not easy, but we can andwe are entitled to both.
Mary (20:54):
And I think we do underestimate how important it
is when our kids see us beinghappy, especially our daughters.
You know, and I think about, Idon't know, I'm I'm just gonna
talk about the snippet because Idon't know the specifics, but
there was something online abouta woman finishing a marathon
and her husband had the kids runout and like, and she was sort
of like pushing them out of theway to get to the finish line.
(21:16):
And there was so manynarratives around that.
Dianette (21:19):
I saw that.
I mean, I get it, but it'slike, dude, could you not have
held that kid until after shecrossed the finish line?
I mean, of course she wants tosee her kids and and you know,
give them a big hug, but she isfeet away from the finish line.
Like, let her have that moment.
Um, yeah, I I mean I understandwhy he did it and I understand
(21:43):
the kids' position for sure, butguys, you know, 10 more feet,
let her have the 10 more feet,and you have the rest of the day
to you know, cuddle and snuggleand all that stuff, but oh my
god, yeah, that was brutal.
Mary (21:55):
Well, and I think about again if we reverse the sexes or
the genders, there would havebeen, I think, a different
reaction to it.
Like, look what she why wouldshe do that when he was so
close?
And so those narratives are sodeep.
And again, I love that you didit anyway, even though it was
hard, because you then sort ofrewrote that script for your
(22:18):
kids.
Dianette (22:19):
Well, it was interesting too.
I would be in um sponsorshipmeetings, um, and these always
with men, and they'd say, Well,you're leaving your kids.
You know, how can you do that?
And at one point I looked atone of them and I said, If I was
a man, would you be asking methat?
And he just said, No.
(22:39):
And kind of that was the end ofthe meeting, and I didn't get
sponsorship from them.
But sexism is alive and well,especially if you're a mom.
Mary (22:48):
Yeah.
So I just think that's reallyimportant because I think
helping women to reframe thathaving passions, having things
we want to accomplish, whetherit's starting a business or
writing a book, or we just it'sthat inner, what is the word I
want?
Soundtrack starts to play oflike, oh, I don't know.
That's not very mom-like orthat's selfish.
(23:09):
And yeah, I think when yourkids react with emotion, that's
hard too.
But yay, for you, because Ithink that is such an important
story to write for them.
Dianette (23:19):
It's, I mean, it takes a decade or two to see the
fruition of that.
Mary (23:24):
Yeah.
Dianette (23:24):
But it's never a good time to do anything.
Never a great time to have kidsunless we've been trying for
five years.
It's never a good time to startstop so many excuses and
reasons for everything in lifethat you just have to again tell
that voice to stop talking,replace it with a positive
thought, and even just say, youknow, why not?
Just do it.
(23:45):
Ignore the voices, ignore,ignore all of the voices, and
just do it because it sets agood example for your kids, it
makes you happier as a person.
Mary (23:54):
And it's, you know, happy mom, happy family.
And I know that especially yourson Johnny followed you into
the adventurous life, right?
Dianette (24:05):
I think he, you know, based on a drawing he did before
we started doing any adventuresports, he was gonna do this
stuff anyways.
The fact that he was blessedwith two parents who started
doing these sports and then wereall in on him doing them,
although we didn't allow anyparachuting until he was 18 and
(24:28):
out of the house.
Um yeah, so I I don't think hefollowed in my footsteps.
I think he saw that, oh, okay,this is what my parents do, but
he was gonna do this whether wedid it or not.
So I don't think we influencedhim at all.
I I know that he did want toadventure race, um, but then eco
(24:48):
challenges had stopped at thetime.
He would have done an ecochallenge uh in a heartbeat.
He would have jumped at thatchance.
Mary (24:55):
Yeah, yeah.
So before we get in a littlebit to his story, do your girls,
because you have two daughters,correct?
Do they do adventuring also?
Dianette (25:06):
Um, they are incredible athletes.
It's not their first choice ofthings to do, but they've both
climbed Kilimanjaro.
Um and they my youngest showedup when I lived in Park City,
showed up from sea level, andpromptly smoked me going up to
10,000 feet on a hike.
And it was that moment, youknow, we have these with our
(25:28):
kids when we realize, oh, I'vejust been surpassed by my child.
Okay, this is a new feeling.
Um, no, they're very giftedathletes, but it's not the focus
of their lives, no.
Mary (25:39):
Yeah.
But you empowered them byallowing them to have those
successes in things that a lotof people would never even think
about trying.
So again, I think that's prettycool.
Dianette (25:48):
I mean, my oldest daughter summited Kilimanjaro
when she was 16, and she youpractically ran up and ran down
and was sitting in the diningtent reading a book.
Everyone else came down, and Ithink people just wanted to like
push her off the hill.
Um, and my youngest did it at13.
I mean, she was, and I lookedat it thinking, gosh, she was so
(26:10):
little, and I took her upKilimanjaro, but she was asking
to go, she was saying it's myturn, when do I get to go?
So, yeah, I, you know, Ibelieve if someone has a passion
about something, and I don'tcare what age they are, if
they're talking about it, andit's not me bringing it up, it's
not me pushing it on them, butthis is something that they
really want to do, and I'm ableto help facilitate that.
(26:33):
Why would I say no?
Mary (26:34):
Yeah.
So I want to talk a littleabout Johnny.
So Johnny Strange was your son,and I would like you to just
quickly tell his story.
But before we do that, I didwatch a lot of the YouTube um
documentary about him.
And it starts with a quote.
(26:54):
And even as I'm ready to readit, I feel a little bit
emotional about it.
But he said, The day I let feardeter me from following my
dreams, I have already died.
So he has really an amazingstory.
Could you tell us some of that?
Dianette (27:13):
Um, he was a wild child from the he literally
walked the day he turned on,just a wild, wild boy.
And I was used to my firstbornwas a daughter, and she was very
calm and you know, didn't hurtherself.
And then I had this one, and Iwould just pray, like, please
God, let him make it to 18.
(27:34):
I mean, just constantlyclimbing anything he could
possibly climb.
He got into places to this day,I have no idea how he got up to
them.
Like almost impossible.
You know, numerous sets ofstitches and just it just
keeping him alive was afull-time job.
Um, but very early on, he just,you know, he always talked
(27:57):
about flying, um, you know,parachuting.
And when he was four, I hadasked him, you know, what do you
want to be when you grow up?
And he said, I want to hang outof helicopters and take
pictures.
I was like, Oh, my son wants tobe a national geographic
photographer.
Oh, how could it occur to methat he would let go and fly out
of the helicopter?
But yeah, he was just drivenand um did every sport that he
(28:21):
could do until he turned 18 andcould start parachuting.
Uh, by the time he was 17, healso had climbed the seven
summits.
Big wave surfing in Nazareth,Portugal.
I mean, towed into these thismonstrous 40-foot wave by
Garrett McNamara, big wavesurfing in Hawaii.
And it was funny because I wason vacation with my youngest.
(28:42):
It was spring break, and andshe pulls up with this, you
know, surfer on this wave, andshe's like, Mom, look.
And I glanced over and said,Oh, you know, that that's nice.
And she said, Mom, it's Johnny.
Losing my mind.
Like, what is he doing?
Like, come on, just constantlyscaring me half to death.
And then he turned 18 andstarted bass jumping.
Mary (29:06):
And can you tell us a little what that is?
And he wore a wing, is itcalled a wingsuit, correct?
Dianette (29:12):
Yeah.
So in the beginning, he wouldjust jump, and then you um, so
base jumping is um gosh, what isit?
Bridge, antenna, span, and oh,maybe that's wrong.
I don't know.
But base stands for fourthings.
And it's it's jumping and thenpulling a parachute and landing.
(29:34):
And then from base jumping, hestarted wingsuiting and you
know, jumping out of airplanes,you know, parachuting, but then
he was jumping out of airplanes,hot air balloons, all that
stuff.
And and then he started wearinga wingsuit.
So instead of just fallingstraight to the ground and
pulling a parachute andfloating, a wingsuit allows you
to fly.
(29:54):
So for every Johnny explainedit all to me, something for
every Foot that you drop, you'regoing forward three feet.
So you can fly long distances.
And yeah, you're flying.
And then you pull a parachuteand you land.
The step above that isproximity wing suit base
(30:16):
jumping, which not only youjumping um off of a cliff and
flying, but you're trying to seehow close to an object, which
is usually the face or rocks orthe land, how you know how close
you can get to it, because thatum it really you feel more the
(30:36):
speed when you're closer to anobject.
So that's like the ultimate,ultimate um thing.
And then the movie they did onhim, which is um, I mean, it's
not supposed to be on YouTube.
I don't know who put it onthere, but it's on Peacock and
on Tubi, but it's um on Tubi,it's Born to Fly.
On Peacock, it's AmericanDaredevil.
(30:58):
And um they started filming himbecause it was the sixth season
of him base jumping.
And I had been on a plane yearsago watching some movie about
base jumpers, and they said,once you start bass jumping, the
average lifespan is six years.
And I at the time I rememberthinking, oh, you know, my son
(31:19):
will stop before that point.
He'll, you know, get married orhave a career or something.
He he won't make it to thatpoint.
And his sixth season, therewere some filmmakers who wanted
to do a movie on him during hissixth season, and he passed
during the filming of theirmovie.
I mean, they weren't filmingthat jump, but it was in the
(31:40):
time period that they werefilming him, and he basically
died doing the subject of themovie.
Mary (31:45):
I can't even imagine what it was like for you to get that
news.
Not something I ever want torepeat.
Dianette (31:52):
No.
I mean, the the earth is offits axis when you lose a kid, so
yeah.
Mary (32:00):
So I think from what I read, you started to find your
way through the grief by goingback to doing what you love.
How did that journey go?
How did that help you?
Dianette (32:15):
He died in October, and that following spring, April
and May, um, I was supposed togo to back to Everest and climb
Everest Lodsey Nupsi.
I was gonna do them in threedays.
I had this, you know, big goal.
I had moved to Park City totrain, and then this happened,
and I didn't have the strengthto walk around the block.
(32:36):
Um, it was, you know, reallyhard to even leave the house.
Um, but I had two dogs and theyneeded to go on a walk.
So at least, you know, on mostdays I could take the dogs on a
walk.
And then it just struck me thatthis is not living.
I'm just existing and this isno way to live.
So I signed up.
I I called my friend MaryGadams, who um owns Racing the
(33:00):
Planet, which is an amazing, um,an amazing ultra company.
And they had a race coming upin Sri Lanka, and I just said,
you know, is there any way I canget a spot?
And she said, absolutely.
And I hadn't run yet.
I hadn't even put on one of myrunning shoes.
And so I showed up.
I hadn't trained.
It was, you know, I was luckyenough to even pack.
(33:21):
And I showed up and I finished.
I was like, okay, I I'm feelingmy mojo coming back.
I'm feeling, you know, the lifestart to come back into me.
And then, you know, a coupleyears later, Eco Challenge was
gonna have another race.
And I was so fortunate to beable to get a spot in that race.
And then it was like, okay, youknow, but yeah, it was sports
(33:45):
and being outside and and doingwhat I had always loved the
most, is what, you know, I thinkgot me through it.
And obviously my amazing,amazing friends who, you know,
without them, there's no way.
Mary (33:58):
Yeah.
Well, and even in the film, Ithink the amazing outpouring of
love for Johnny had to be alsobe uplifting to see all those
people be so inspired by him andcare about him so much.
And he did work to help others,right?
That was part of his mission.
Dianette (34:16):
Yep.
Stopping genocide and caringParkinson's were his two main
things.
But yeah, Malibu's a very smalltown, and I am so fortunate to
have lived there for 25 yearsand to have been able to raise
my kids there.
You know, I I can't even counton one hand how many times my
kids have been to a mall.
(34:36):
It just wasn't a thing.
Like the big thing was if youwere allowed to go to the beach
by yourself, or you know, withyour friends.
Yeah.
So they they had to go throughjunior lifeguards to be allowed
to do that.
And then, you know, the otherbig thing was being allowed to
go hiking with your friends, youknow, with no parent present.
Yep.
And so, you know, those weremilestones in my kids' life.
(34:58):
And for me as a parent, I, youknow, I was thrilled.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, it the outpouringfor him was amazing.
And I will forever be gratefulto everybody who showed up in
every way imaginable, whethershowing up with coffee in the
morning or just sitting at thetable with me.
And I mean, it was amazing.
Mary (35:19):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's wonderful.
Well, I think that your storyoverall, it's just so inspiring
and amazing.
And I also love that part ofwhat you weave through this is
not that you just like I havethat image of your daughter like
bounding up the mountain.
And that is not really how lifealways goes.
(35:42):
And so being able toacknowledge that when you are
sometimes at that starting line,you have that feeling of like,
am I going to be able to dothis?
And, you know, you can be, youare felled by grief when you
lose a child.
And I think getting throughthat and pulling on whatever the
lessons are of, you know, whatyou've already overcome and then
(36:04):
getting back to that passion isalso part of the journey
because I feel like, and I thinkpeople say this, it can sound
very trite, but I feel likeJohnny would want you to be back
out there.
Like that's part of I thinkthat journey through how do you
honor someone and still rememberthem?
Dianette (36:23):
He sends, whenever I'm doing something like that, he
he always sends the most amazingsigns.
Um, he just did it again onthis last climb.
And um, yeah, for sure.
I I mean, I think anyone who'slost a child or a loved one, a
friend, I don't think any ofthem want us sitting on the
(36:43):
couch being depressed.
That's that's not what we'rehere on this planet for.
If you're here on this planetand you're breathing and and
able to walk outside, they wantus to be happy.
I they don't want us dwellingin grief and sadness and sorrow.
And so yeah, when I'm wheneverif I'm skiing really fast, I
(37:04):
feel him.
If I'm, you know, any of thosesports that I love to do, I
absolutely feel him with me whenI'm doing that.
So yeah, I'll keep doing it aslong as I can.
I I would love to go back toEverest.
That's kind of the goal.
Yeah, and I I know he'd be withme there too.
Mary (37:21):
Yeah.
Well, thank you so much forsharing your story.
Can you remind us of the nameof your book and where people
can find you if they want you tobe a speaker or they want to
know about the, you know, yourservices?
Dianette (37:35):
Um, they can reach out to me at deanettewells at
aool.com.
They can go to my website,deanettewells.com.
The name of the book is AnotherStep Up the Mountain.
You can get it from Amazon,Barnes and Noble.
Um, yeah, pick up the book.
I hope you enjoy reading it.
Yeah, and just, you know, turnoff the negative voices in your
head and do it anyway, right?
(37:56):
Do yeah, do it anyway.
Like, so what?
Do it anyway.
Yeah, this should be our thing.
Mary (38:00):
Do it anyway.
Okay, so that's what we'regonna end on.
So I want to thank everyone forlistening.
I would love if you would leavea quick review or even if you
just um give me a quick rating,that would be awesome.
That's how other people findme.
And until next time, go outinto the world and be the
amazing, resilient, vibrantviolet that you are.
Welcome to No Shrinking Violets.
I'm your host, Mary Rothwell,licensed therapist and certified
integrative mental healthpractitioner.
I've created a space where wecelebrate the intuition and
power of women who want to breakfree from limiting narratives.
We'll explore all realms ofwellness, what it means to take
up space unapologetically, andhow your essential nature is key
(00:28):
to living life on your terms.
It's time to own your space,trust your nature, and flourish.
Let's dive in.
Hey Violets, welcome to theshow.
Twenty-five years ago, I metSteve.
Three and a half years later,he would become my first
husband.
But a few months after we firstmet, he left to hike the
(00:49):
Pacific Crest Trail.
It is a 2,650-milelong-distance hiking trail that
traverses California, Oregon,and Washington states from the
border of Mexico to the Canadianborder.
It wasn't his firstlong-distance hike.
My hiking experience was littleto none.
He and I had done a few shortbackpacking trips during the
(01:10):
first months of dating,something I never thought I
would do in spite of loving theoutdoors, and I found I did love
the freedom of sleeping outsideand walking each day with no
other demands.
When he suggested that I flyout to California to join him on
the PCT, I initially andimmediately said, no.
I had none of my own gear, andthere was no way I was in the
(01:32):
shape I needed to be to land at8,000 feet of elevation and walk
for an average of 20 miles perday with 40 to 50 pounds on my
back.
However, it's hard for me tosidestep a challenge.
I started to imagine it mightbe possible.
So I started to read andresearch gear, and I also
started to hike every weekendwith weight on my back.
(01:53):
I trained my legs on a climbingmachine, and just two months
after Steve started his hike, Iflew out and joined him.
Let's just say that jumpinginto the middle of a through
hike with someone who is notonly more fit and experienced,
but who had been hiking everysingle day for the past 60 days
was a little bit harder than Iimagined, especially the 8,000
(02:15):
feet of elevation.
I was nauseous for most of thefirst three to four days, which
made getting the calories Ineeded a challenge.
My pack felt like it weighed aton.
We were going uphill much ofthe way.
At one point, we needed to hikeHat Creek Rim, a 30-mile
stretch with no water source, in95 plus degree heat, with about
(02:36):
three trees for shade theentire time.
One gallon of water weighseight pounds.
So you can imagine the load wecarried to get us through that
part of the trail.
Most days my feet were bleedingor my toenails were infected
from constantly being jammedagainst the front of my boots on
downhills.
I will spare you the gorydetails.
But the 214 miles I proudlyhiked allowed me to find
(02:59):
strength and test my newrelationship in ways I never
knew possible.
And I'll be honest, I was ableto use that experience and what
I endured and overcame as fuelto get me through many of life's
challenges.
Although it was a physicalchallenge, it really was nearly
90% mindset.
So when I have difficulties atwork or in other situations, I
remember how I felt looking atMount Shasta on the final day of
(03:22):
my part of the hike, knowingthat no one could see that view
I had without getting there inthe same way that I had.
It was humbling andexhilarating.
So when I read about DeanetteWells, I was humbled in an
entirely different way.
What she has accomplished,well, it's nothing short of
amazing.
Deanette is the author ofAnother Step Up the Mountain.
(03:43):
She has taken on amazingphysical accomplishments,
including conquering the sevensummits, which include Everest,
Kilimanjaro, and Denali.
She has also raced 150 plusmiles across deserts, biked
across America, and competed inmultiple eco challenges and
ultramarathons worldwide.
And she has experiencedprofound loss from divorce
(04:06):
through losing her son Johnny,himself an amazing athlete that
pushed boundaries and died doingwhat he loved.
Her journey of conqueringphysical challenges that most of
us would never consider, bothfueled and were dwarfed by her
journey to overcome loss andfully live again.
Welcome to No Shrinking VioletsDNA.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
(04:27):
So thank you for toleratingthat very long introduction.
But as I told her before Istarted hit to hit record,
there's a lot of things thatresonate.
So I can't wait to sort of diginto all that.
But I wondered if you couldstart by giving us a brief
overview of your journey fromhow you knew you wanted to
discover all of those physicalchallenges to a little bit about
(04:49):
your personal losses along theway.
Dianette (04:57):
But I was just drawn to Mount Whitney and, you know,
finally getting a bunch ofgirlfriends to do it with me.
And we had no idea what we weredoing.
But it it hit my soul hard thatthis is what I'm supposed to be
doing.
And then it was, what's what'sthe next thing?
What's the next thing?
And and you know, before youknow it, there's 26 years of all
(05:19):
of these adventures and youknow, races and climbs that, you
know, kind of have made up mylife.
And um, and all those things,the physicality of those things
is what really got me throughum, you know, my divorce, the
loss of my son, just hard times.
And just even when I would justhike first thing in the
(05:41):
morning, that set the tone forthe rest of my day.
And, you know, it's physicalactivity is a great thing.
Mary (05:49):
Okay, so you're saying physical activity.
And anybody that just heardthat intro is like, um, that's a
little bit more than physicalactivity.
So the one thing that struck mein part of your story that I've
heard heard you tell is thatpart about Mount Whitney that,
and I I'm thinking you had like10 girlfriends that went with
you, right?
I don't think I have one thatwould be like, oh yeah, let's do
(06:11):
that.
So tell us what, first of all,what was that like?
Was it one day, multiple days?
Dianette (06:17):
So um you can do multiple days on Whitney or in
overnight, but I have I just nowon October 1st um did it for
the 17th time, and it was my15th summit of it.
Um, I've always done it in justa day because there's a motel
close by, I want a nice bed, andI want dinner.
Um it's funny because sometimesdepending on who I'm climbing
(06:39):
with, we don't make it down intime for dinner.
So um that that is the goal isto always be down in time to
eat.
And you know, it was just thisthing of I don't know, I had no
expectations, didn't know if wewould sum it, but when my soul
did it and knew, oh, this iswhat I'm supposed to be doing,
just everything flowed intoplace.
(07:01):
And then it was, you know, onething flowed after the other.
And thankfully, I still have acrazy group of friends who say
yes to doing this stuff.
And uh one of my friends whowent with me, this last one,
it's now her seventh timeclimbing it.
So, you know, it's good to havefun, crazy friends.
Mary (07:20):
Yeah.
So it's interesting you saythat you'd like to have dinner,
you know, because you'vecertainly done things where the
dinner is like on your back,right?
You're carrying what you'regetting.
You're lucky.
Right, right.
So can you think of a timewhere there was something
happening and you really had topush through wanting to quit?
Dianette (07:42):
Oh, every um adventure race.
I started climbing, then I wentto adventure racing.
And adventure racing, you'renot guaranteed any meal or any
food because it's what you cancarry, but you also have to move
very fast.
So you could go a few dayswithout eating much.
Um, like I say in the book,there's one part of this river,
(08:04):
and we're going over theseboulders, and there was a wet
wheat thin on the rock.
And I scraped it off and ateit.
unknown (08:10):
Oh my god.
Dianette (08:12):
I know it sounds disgusting, but I was grateful
for this wheat then.
Um, and now I when I'm at thegrocery store and I see a box of
wheat thins, and I know I couldbuy, you know, multiple boxes.
Like, okay, okay.
So, you know, I I do know whatit's like to be very hungry, and
and then you have to laugh andsay, Well, you put yourself in
this position, so go with it,stick with it.
(08:33):
And yeah, the quitting, youknow, physically, anything over
24 hours, your body is justsaying, No, we're done.
We could go home and sleep in anice bed and sit on the couch.
But that's when your mind kicksin and reminds you, hey, you
paid to be here, you're havingfun, look around you, you're
(08:55):
seeing things that most peoplewill never see.
So suck it up.
And then I also think I remindmyself, okay, if you quit right
now and you're, you know, in therestaurant at the hotel, are
you gonna be bummed that you'resitting there?
Or would you rather be outhere?
And that's what does it for me.
I would always rather be backout on the race course.
Mary (09:12):
I think the the different things that you do all seem like
they require somethingdifferent.
Like the running is differentthan the climbing, right?
It's sort of a different, evenclimbing.
I have not done a lot of that,but I that's more really
strategic in a sense.
Is that right?
Like thinking about what is myroute and how am I gonna get
there?
Dianette (09:33):
No, racing is very strategic.
Um you know, that's why youwant the best navigator.
You want um a really great setof um, and I always race with
three men.
I want the strongest and best.
And yeah, adventure racing ismuch more strategic than
climbing.
I mean, climbing is usually theroute is fixed and it's known
(09:53):
because I'm not putting up anynew routes.
Um yeah, no, I'm not that good.
Um and you're usually in a tentby dark and having a proper
meal and sleeping in a warmsleeping bag.
And it's you know, the mainthing with climbing is weather.
And if the weather's not good,you stay in your tent.
Denali, we had storm afterstorm after storm and had a lot
(10:14):
of downtime in the tent.
And, you know, but that'sreally the the main thing.
But racing, adventure racing isjust a whole other beast.
But best time of my life.
Mary (10:26):
Well, thinking about that wheat thin, I know on the
Pacific Crest Trail, there weresome water sources.
I mean, you have to literallyyou have a water bottle and
you're pushing aside sort of thealgae and the so you know, when
I think about having done that,it's like, oh my gosh, but you
when you're in the moment,you're just doing it.
Dianette (10:47):
Yeah, you have to be careful.
I have had giardia andleptospirosis.
Um, yeah, I've I've die heaveddirt because I drank dirt by
accident.
Um, so water I'm pretty carefulwith.
I have a dairy pen.
Um, I have the iodine tablets.
Yeah, and the problem withhydration is once you start to
(11:10):
get dehydrated, it's so hard tocatch back up.
Um, and I've had multiple timeswhere I'm pounding water and
I'm still so thirsty, and I'mrealizing uh-oh, I'm past the
point of, you know, it's hard toget the train back on the
tracks once you've gotten tothat point.
Mary (11:27):
Yeah.
Yeah, because they say onceyou're thirsty, that's too far.
You've gone too far.
Yeah.
So can you tell us a little bitwhat an eco challenge is and
what that was like?
Dianette (11:39):
Well, if you go on to Amazon Prime, it's called
World's Toughest Race EcoChallenge.
And if you watch that series,it will give you a great view of
what it is and and what it isversus say an ultra where you
run, you know, my ultras areusually 150 miles plus.
A bike event, you're justbiking.
(12:00):
Um, mountaineering, you'reclimbing, but an adventure race
puts, you know, multiple five toeight, ten different sports all
in one race, all non-motorized.
So you can maybe hike or run a24-hour section and then go
paddle for 50 miles and thenjump on a bike and then do
ropes.
(12:20):
I mean, it's it really dependson the topography of the land
and what the race organizerswant to do.
But it's just it's a really funmulti-day, multi-sport,
non-stop race on your markets atgo, usually a team of four, one
person of the opposite sex, andyou have to stay together and
you have to finish together.
(12:41):
And if one person drops out,you're all out.
So it's, you know, you reallyhave to build each other up and
stay together.
And you are only as fast asyour slowest person.
So it behooves you to have areally good, strong team.
Mary (12:57):
So in that situation, it's I I think of two things.
One, it keep probably keeps yougoing because you have a sense
of sort of responsibility, butthere's also maybe frustration
if you are not the slowest one,or as they say, the weakest
link.
So that must be toughsometimes.
It's hard.
Dianette (13:16):
I mean, I have been in every position where I have
felt the strongest and like,okay, let's go, let's go.
And I've also been the weakest.
And just it's horrible to bethe weakest because the guilt is
horrible, and you know you'reletting your teammates down.
You know, so when someone isbeing the weakest on the team
(13:36):
and I know that, you know,they're trying their hardest and
they didn't do this on purpose,then yeah, it's just it's
almost relief that, oh, thankGod, it's not me.
And you do what you can to helpthem.
Um, I was on a team where, youknow, someone pretty blatantly
put themselves in that position,you know, didn't take care of
themselves, started off being onsome diet.
(13:58):
It just you can't race and beon a diet.
It's sugar, salt, fat, carbs,as much as you can get.
I mean, you wouldn't go homeand eat like that, but during
the race, you need salt and youneed sugar and you need fat.
And um yeah, you just you dowhatever it takes.
Mary (14:16):
Yeah.
Okay, so I'm gonna take alittle bit of a side road
because first of all, one of thethings that I love about your
story is you recognized yourpassion and you didn't, well,
I'm gonna, I'm not gonna say youdidn't.
I don't know.
I think sometimes when we thinkabout doing something big, the
first voice in our head is,yeah, but like, are you sure you
(14:37):
want to do this?
So before I ask my nextquestion, did you have that
internal critic or arguer that'slike, what are you thinking?
Dianette (14:46):
I have that negative critic in my head 24-7.
And I'm really learning to tellthat voice to just, you know, S
T F U because it doesn't do usany good.
If we can have the negativevoice, why not replace it with a
positive voice?
And so I'm really trying thatwhen it starts, it's like, nope,
nope.
And then I replace it with apositive thought.
(15:07):
The start of every race line,it's like, oh, can I do this?
Which is part of the fun of theadventure.
If we showed up at every startline going, oh, this is easy, or
I've got this, where's the funin that?
Where's the adventure?
Um, and also, you know, whenyou get to the finish line, it's
much more amazing when youweren't 100% sure that you could
(15:28):
get there.
I mean, you hope for it and youplan on it, but it's like the
summit of a mountain.
I mean, when I started climbingMount Whitney on, you know, on
the first, I'm always nervousgetting out of the car and
wondering, okay, am I gonnatrip?
And how am I gonna feel once Iget to 10,000 feet?
Um, what's gonna happen?
And it just makes the summitthat much better.
(15:50):
But I can't imagine allowingthe negative voice in my head to
not allow me to get out of thecar.
So, you know, whatever it isthat you are passionate about or
want to do, tell that voicejust to zip it and do it
anyways.
Because what's the worst thathappens?
You don't finish, you don'tstart, you don't like it.
Okay, do something else, but atleast you tried because you'll
(16:13):
never know if you don't try.
Mary (16:15):
Yeah.
And I do know that myex-husband, anytime he starts a
through hike, even today, hedoesn't think about I'm going to
finish.
He plans as if he's going tofinish.
But sometimes that can get youinto situations that are
dangerous.
If you're not reading theterrain and recognizing,
especially in the mountains whenyou a blizzard can hit, you
know, all of those things Ithink are so important.
(16:36):
But I think there's so manyparallels to life just in in
climbing, because I think aboutlike you can't really look at
the top the whole time, right?
Because then you're like, am Iever going to get there?
But once you get there, theview is amazing.
Dianette (16:51):
Yeah.
And when you have a goal, it isimportant to I visualize.
Like when I did Everest, Ivisualized that summit over and
over and over again.
But then when you arrive, youknow, you have five to six weeks
before you're going to summit.
So if you just sat there forfive to six weeks and stressed
out over the summit, you youwouldn't last a week.
(17:13):
Um, so yeah, you focus on thesteps in front of you, the the
immediate task at hand and doingeverything right in preparation
for the summit.
But um, yeah, I when I go toclimb, I'm not hyper focused on
the summit.
It's my goal.
And it's, you know, I'm notignoring it, but I'm focusing on
hour by hour, step by step.
(17:34):
Oh, I need to eat something, Ineed to drink something, oh, I
need to shed a later layer oradd a layer.
So, because if you if you missone of those steps on your way
to the summit, you won't summit.
Mary (17:44):
Right.
Yeah.
So I know I have a lot of womenlistening that have children.
And when we have an idea as awoman, here's what I want to do.
Sometimes that voice can comein because it's saying, wait a
second, you're a mom.
So living for you, you know, wehave all these scripts about,
(18:07):
you know, I've had women say,Well, I feel like I'm being
selfish.
That seems to be the key word.
So, how did you manage to whatwas it like?
I'll say, what was it like tobe a mom and to do all of these
adventures and follow thatpassion at the same time?
Dianette (18:23):
Um, the amount of guilt was at times overwhelming
because I would always call mykids, you know, pretty much
every day.
And, you know, crying, comehome, come home.
It by this point I wasdivorced.
Um so you know, most of thetime they were with a babysitter
and and not with my ex.
(18:43):
But um, you know, it it's hard.
It's when I when I was homewith the kids, I was home.
I really didn't go out atnight, I wasn't a partier.
It's when I picked them up fromschool, it was all in.
Um so when I was there, I was100% there.
And when I was on a climb, um,you know, you notice later on,
(19:05):
they are watching and they'repaying attention and they're
seeing their mom be reallystrong and accomplish something.
And I feel like that made mykids feel like, oh, I can do
anything too.
Because if my mom, who youknow, I was a housewife sitting
on the couch, um, if she can dothis, God, I can do anything.
And I've seen them do this intheir lives.
(19:28):
Um, but yeah, the guilt ishorrible.
I I'm pretty sure I talk aboutthis in the book where you know,
the men aren't in tears afterthey get off the phone with
their kids because their wife istaking care of the kids.
Um, and it's, you know, I wouldget off the phone every day and
it was just brutal.
And when I'm on a mountain, I Iwould think, God, I am a
horrible mom.
I should be home with my kids.
(19:49):
What kind of, you know, momwould do this?
And then I'm home and I'mthinking about the next climb,
but yet fully enjoying everyminute of being a mom.
So, you know, the pull to be,you know, an athlete and a mom,
and I was really good at both.
So why should I have to give upeither one of those?
And yeah, it's it's a dilemmathat women face when when women
(20:13):
go to work in the mornings andthey leave their kids, or even
if they work from home and theyhave to close that door for
eight hours to get their jobdone.
I mean, there's terrible guiltwith that.
And, you know, I I think thatjust comes from we're moms and
we want to please everyone allthe time, but we're also humans
(20:33):
and we're women, and we areentitled to our own dreams as
well.
Would I want my daughters togive up their dreams just
because they're moms?
No, I I want my children tohave their dreams and to
accomplish them as well.
Mary (20:47):
Yeah.
Dianette (20:48):
And we can do both.
It's not easy, but we can andwe are entitled to both.
Mary (20:54):
And I think we do underestimate how important it
is when our kids see us beinghappy, especially our daughters.
You know, and I think about, Idon't know, I'm I'm just gonna
talk about the snippet because Idon't know the specifics, but
there was something online abouta woman finishing a marathon
and her husband had the kids runout and like, and she was sort
of like pushing them out of theway to get to the finish line.
(21:16):
And there was so manynarratives around that.
Dianette (21:19):
I saw that.
I mean, I get it, but it'slike, dude, could you not have
held that kid until after shecrossed the finish line?
I mean, of course she wants tosee her kids and and you know,
give them a big hug, but she isfeet away from the finish line.
Like, let her have that moment.
Um, yeah, I I mean I understandwhy he did it and I understand
(21:43):
the kids' position for sure, butguys, you know, 10 more feet,
let her have the 10 more feet,and you have the rest of the day
to you know, cuddle and snuggleand all that stuff, but oh my
god, yeah, that was brutal.
Mary (21:55):
Well, and I think about again if we reverse the sexes or
the genders, there would havebeen, I think, a different
reaction to it.
Like, look what she why wouldshe do that when he was so
close?
And so those narratives are sodeep.
And again, I love that you didit anyway, even though it was
hard, because you then sort ofrewrote that script for your
(22:18):
kids.
Dianette (22:19):
Well, it was interesting too.
I would be in um sponsorshipmeetings, um, and these always
with men, and they'd say, Well,you're leaving your kids.
You know, how can you do that?
And at one point I looked atone of them and I said, If I was
a man, would you be asking methat?
And he just said, No.
(22:39):
And kind of that was the end ofthe meeting, and I didn't get
sponsorship from them.
But sexism is alive and well,especially if you're a mom.
Mary (22:48):
Yeah.
So I just think that's reallyimportant because I think
helping women to reframe thathaving passions, having things
we want to accomplish, whetherit's starting a business or
writing a book, or we just it'sthat inner, what is the word I
want?
Soundtrack starts to play oflike, oh, I don't know.
That's not very mom-like orthat's selfish.
(23:09):
And yeah, I think when yourkids react with emotion, that's
hard too.
But yay, for you, because Ithink that is such an important
story to write for them.
Dianette (23:19):
It's, I mean, it takes a decade or two to see the
fruition of that.
Mary (23:24):
Yeah.
Dianette (23:24):
But it's never a good time to do anything.
Never a great time to have kidsunless we've been trying for
five years.
It's never a good time to startstop so many excuses and
reasons for everything in lifethat you just have to again tell
that voice to stop talking,replace it with a positive
thought, and even just say, youknow, why not?
Just do it.
(23:45):
Ignore the voices, ignore,ignore all of the voices, and
just do it because it sets agood example for your kids, it
makes you happier as a person.
Mary (23:54):
And it's, you know, happy mom, happy family.
And I know that especially yourson Johnny followed you into
the adventurous life, right?
Dianette (24:05):
I think he, you know, based on a drawing he did before
we started doing any adventuresports, he was gonna do this
stuff anyways.
The fact that he was blessedwith two parents who started
doing these sports and then wereall in on him doing them,
although we didn't allow anyparachuting until he was 18 and
(24:28):
out of the house.
Um yeah, so I I don't think hefollowed in my footsteps.
I think he saw that, oh, okay,this is what my parents do, but
he was gonna do this whether wedid it or not.
So I don't think we influencedhim at all.
I I know that he did want toadventure race, um, but then eco
(24:48):
challenges had stopped at thetime.
He would have done an ecochallenge uh in a heartbeat.
He would have jumped at thatchance.
Mary (24:55):
Yeah, yeah.
So before we get in a littlebit to his story, do your girls,
because you have two daughters,correct?
Do they do adventuring also?
Dianette (25:06):
Um, they are incredible athletes.
It's not their first choice ofthings to do, but they've both
climbed Kilimanjaro.
Um and they my youngest showedup when I lived in Park City,
showed up from sea level, andpromptly smoked me going up to
10,000 feet on a hike.
And it was that moment, youknow, we have these with our
(25:28):
kids when we realize, oh, I'vejust been surpassed by my child.
Okay, this is a new feeling.
Um, no, they're very giftedathletes, but it's not the focus
of their lives, no.
Mary (25:39):
Yeah.
But you empowered them byallowing them to have those
successes in things that a lotof people would never even think
about trying.
So again, I think that's prettycool.
Dianette (25:48):
I mean, my oldest daughter summited Kilimanjaro
when she was 16, and she youpractically ran up and ran down
and was sitting in the diningtent reading a book.
Everyone else came down, and Ithink people just wanted to like
push her off the hill.
Um, and my youngest did it at13.
I mean, she was, and I lookedat it thinking, gosh, she was so
(26:10):
little, and I took her upKilimanjaro, but she was asking
to go, she was saying it's myturn, when do I get to go?
So, yeah, I, you know, Ibelieve if someone has a passion
about something, and I don'tcare what age they are, if
they're talking about it, andit's not me bringing it up, it's
not me pushing it on them, butthis is something that they
really want to do, and I'm ableto help facilitate that.
(26:33):
Why would I say no?
Mary (26:34):
Yeah.
So I want to talk a littleabout Johnny.
So Johnny Strange was your son,and I would like you to just
quickly tell his story.
But before we do that, I didwatch a lot of the YouTube um
documentary about him.
And it starts with a quote.
(26:54):
And even as I'm ready to readit, I feel a little bit
emotional about it.
But he said, The day I let feardeter me from following my
dreams, I have already died.
So he has really an amazingstory.
Could you tell us some of that?
Dianette (27:13):
Um, he was a wild child from the he literally
walked the day he turned on,just a wild, wild boy.
And I was used to my firstbornwas a daughter, and she was very
calm and you know, didn't hurtherself.
And then I had this one, and Iwould just pray, like, please
God, let him make it to 18.
(27:34):
I mean, just constantlyclimbing anything he could
possibly climb.
He got into places to this day,I have no idea how he got up to
them.
Like almost impossible.
You know, numerous sets ofstitches and just it just
keeping him alive was afull-time job.
Um, but very early on, he just,you know, he always talked
(27:57):
about flying, um, you know,parachuting.
And when he was four, I hadasked him, you know, what do you
want to be when you grow up?
And he said, I want to hang outof helicopters and take
pictures.
I was like, Oh, my son wants tobe a national geographic
photographer.
Oh, how could it occur to methat he would let go and fly out
of the helicopter?
But yeah, he was just drivenand um did every sport that he
(28:21):
could do until he turned 18 andcould start parachuting.
Uh, by the time he was 17, healso had climbed the seven
summits.
Big wave surfing in Nazareth,Portugal.
I mean, towed into these thismonstrous 40-foot wave by
Garrett McNamara, big wavesurfing in Hawaii.
And it was funny because I wason vacation with my youngest.
(28:42):
It was spring break, and andshe pulls up with this, you
know, surfer on this wave, andshe's like, Mom, look.
And I glanced over and said,Oh, you know, that that's nice.
And she said, Mom, it's Johnny.
Losing my mind.
Like, what is he doing?
Like, come on, just constantlyscaring me half to death.
And then he turned 18 andstarted bass jumping.
Mary (29:06):
And can you tell us a little what that is?
And he wore a wing, is itcalled a wingsuit, correct?
Dianette (29:12):
Yeah.
So in the beginning, he wouldjust jump, and then you um, so
base jumping is um gosh, what isit?
Bridge, antenna, span, and oh,maybe that's wrong.
I don't know.
But base stands for fourthings.
And it's it's jumping and thenpulling a parachute and landing.
(29:34):
And then from base jumping, hestarted wingsuiting and you
know, jumping out of airplanes,you know, parachuting, but then
he was jumping out of airplanes,hot air balloons, all that
stuff.
And and then he started wearinga wingsuit.
So instead of just fallingstraight to the ground and
pulling a parachute andfloating, a wingsuit allows you
to fly.
(29:54):
So for every Johnny explainedit all to me, something for
every Foot that you drop, you'regoing forward three feet.
So you can fly long distances.
And yeah, you're flying.
And then you pull a parachuteand you land.
The step above that isproximity wing suit base
(30:16):
jumping, which not only youjumping um off of a cliff and
flying, but you're trying to seehow close to an object, which
is usually the face or rocks orthe land, how you know how close
you can get to it, because thatum it really you feel more the
(30:36):
speed when you're closer to anobject.
So that's like the ultimate,ultimate um thing.
And then the movie they did onhim, which is um, I mean, it's
not supposed to be on YouTube.
I don't know who put it onthere, but it's on Peacock and
on Tubi, but it's um on Tubi,it's Born to Fly.
On Peacock, it's AmericanDaredevil.
(30:58):
And um they started filming himbecause it was the sixth season
of him base jumping.
And I had been on a plane yearsago watching some movie about
base jumpers, and they said,once you start bass jumping, the
average lifespan is six years.
And I at the time I rememberthinking, oh, you know, my son
(31:19):
will stop before that point.
He'll, you know, get married orhave a career or something.
He he won't make it to thatpoint.
And his sixth season, therewere some filmmakers who wanted
to do a movie on him during hissixth season, and he passed
during the filming of theirmovie.
I mean, they weren't filmingthat jump, but it was in the
(31:40):
time period that they werefilming him, and he basically
died doing the subject of themovie.
Mary (31:45):
I can't even imagine what it was like for you to get that
news.
Not something I ever want torepeat.
Dianette (31:52):
No.
I mean, the the earth is offits axis when you lose a kid, so
yeah.
Mary (32:00):
So I think from what I read, you started to find your
way through the grief by goingback to doing what you love.
How did that journey go?
How did that help you?
Dianette (32:15):
He died in October, and that following spring, April
and May, um, I was supposed togo to back to Everest and climb
Everest Lodsey Nupsi.
I was gonna do them in threedays.
I had this, you know, big goal.
I had moved to Park City totrain, and then this happened,
and I didn't have the strengthto walk around the block.
(32:36):
Um, it was, you know, reallyhard to even leave the house.
Um, but I had two dogs and theyneeded to go on a walk.
So at least, you know, on mostdays I could take the dogs on a
walk.
And then it just struck me thatthis is not living.
I'm just existing and this isno way to live.
So I signed up.
I I called my friend MaryGadams, who um owns Racing the
(33:00):
Planet, which is an amazing, um,an amazing ultra company.
And they had a race coming upin Sri Lanka, and I just said,
you know, is there any way I canget a spot?
And she said, absolutely.
And I hadn't run yet.
I hadn't even put on one of myrunning shoes.
And so I showed up.
I hadn't trained.
It was, you know, I was luckyenough to even pack.
(33:21):
And I showed up and I finished.
I was like, okay, I I'm feelingmy mojo coming back.
I'm feeling, you know, the lifestart to come back into me.
And then, you know, a coupleyears later, Eco Challenge was
gonna have another race.
And I was so fortunate to beable to get a spot in that race.
And then it was like, okay, youknow, but yeah, it was sports
(33:45):
and being outside and and doingwhat I had always loved the
most, is what, you know, I thinkgot me through it.
And obviously my amazing,amazing friends who, you know,
without them, there's no way.
Mary (33:58):
Yeah.
Well, and even in the film, Ithink the amazing outpouring of
love for Johnny had to be alsobe uplifting to see all those
people be so inspired by him andcare about him so much.
And he did work to help others,right?
That was part of his mission.
Dianette (34:16):
Yep.
Stopping genocide and caringParkinson's were his two main
things.
But yeah, Malibu's a very smalltown, and I am so fortunate to
have lived there for 25 yearsand to have been able to raise
my kids there.
You know, I I can't even counton one hand how many times my
kids have been to a mall.
(34:36):
It just wasn't a thing.
Like the big thing was if youwere allowed to go to the beach
by yourself, or you know, withyour friends.
Yeah.
So they they had to go throughjunior lifeguards to be allowed
to do that.
And then, you know, the otherbig thing was being allowed to
go hiking with your friends, youknow, with no parent present.
Yep.
And so, you know, those weremilestones in my kids' life.
(34:58):
And for me as a parent, I, youknow, I was thrilled.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, it the outpouringfor him was amazing.
And I will forever be gratefulto everybody who showed up in
every way imaginable, whethershowing up with coffee in the
morning or just sitting at thetable with me.
And I mean, it was amazing.
Mary (35:19):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's wonderful.
Well, I think that your storyoverall, it's just so inspiring
and amazing.
And I also love that part ofwhat you weave through this is
not that you just like I havethat image of your daughter like
bounding up the mountain.
And that is not really how lifealways goes.
(35:42):
And so being able toacknowledge that when you are
sometimes at that starting line,you have that feeling of like,
am I going to be able to dothis?
And, you know, you can be, youare felled by grief when you
lose a child.
And I think getting throughthat and pulling on whatever the
lessons are of, you know, whatyou've already overcome and then
(36:04):
getting back to that passion isalso part of the journey
because I feel like, and I thinkpeople say this, it can sound
very trite, but I feel likeJohnny would want you to be back
out there.
Like that's part of I thinkthat journey through how do you
honor someone and still rememberthem?
Dianette (36:23):
He sends, whenever I'm doing something like that, he
he always sends the most amazingsigns.
Um, he just did it again onthis last climb.
And um, yeah, for sure.
I I mean, I think anyone who'slost a child or a loved one, a
friend, I don't think any ofthem want us sitting on the
(36:43):
couch being depressed.
That's that's not what we'rehere on this planet for.
If you're here on this planetand you're breathing and and
able to walk outside, they wantus to be happy.
I they don't want us dwellingin grief and sadness and sorrow.
And so yeah, when I'm wheneverif I'm skiing really fast, I
(37:04):
feel him.
If I'm, you know, any of thosesports that I love to do, I
absolutely feel him with me whenI'm doing that.
So yeah, I'll keep doing it aslong as I can.
I I would love to go back toEverest.
That's kind of the goal.
Yeah, and I I know he'd be withme there too.
Mary (37:21):
Yeah.
Well, thank you so much forsharing your story.
Can you remind us of the nameof your book and where people
can find you if they want you tobe a speaker or they want to
know about the, you know, yourservices?
Dianette (37:35):
Um, they can reach out to me at deanettewells at
aool.com.
They can go to my website,deanettewells.com.
The name of the book is AnotherStep Up the Mountain.
You can get it from Amazon,Barnes and Noble.
Um, yeah, pick up the book.
I hope you enjoy reading it.
Yeah, and just, you know, turnoff the negative voices in your
head and do it anyway, right?
(37:56):
Do yeah, do it anyway.
Like, so what?
Do it anyway.
Yeah, this should be our thing.
Mary (38:00):
Do it anyway.
Okay, so that's what we'regonna end on.
So I want to thank everyone forlistening.
I would love if you would leavea quick review or even if you
just um give me a quick rating,that would be awesome.
That's how other people findme.
And until next time, go outinto the world and be the
amazing, resilient, vibrantviolet that you are.
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