February 13, 2025 • 52 mins
Thoughts or comments? Send us a text!
In this inspiring episode, I sit down with Carli May, a psychology major with a passion for helping others, as she reflects on her college journey. From navigating future career options and friendship conflicts to overcoming self-doubt, Carli shares her story of resilience, and how she found her voice in a complex and often overwhelming environment. Whether you’re a young woman navigating college or a parent hoping to guide your daughter, this episode offers empowering insights into personal growth, building boundaries, and thriving amidst change.
Click HERE for to get your FREE download, 10 Tips for Women in College.
Follow me on Facebook and Instagram, and check out my website!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mary (00:05):
Welcome to no Shrinking Violence.
I'm your host, mary Rothwell,licensed therapist and certified
integrative mental healthpractitioner.
I've created a space where wecelebrate the intuition and
power of women who want to breakfree from limiting narratives.
We'll explore all realms ofwellness what it means to take
up space unapologetically, andhow your essential nature is key
(00:28):
to living life on your terms.
It's time to own your space,trust your nature and flourish.
Let's dive in.
Hi and welcome to the show.
We're going down a bit of a newroad today.
If you're a parent of ateenaged female, this is for you
, and my hope is that you'llshare this with your daughter or
(00:50):
daughters, or, better yet,listen together.
In a sense, I have known myguest for about 12 years and I
have known of her for a few more.
Her name is Carly May, and Ifirst met her when she was
probably 10 years old, believeit or not, I was her elementary
school counselor.
My time working with theLittles was short, only about a
(01:12):
year and a half.
It was during a weird bridge inmy career, a time between a job
that I loved, but that hadbecome an unhealthy environment
for my growth, and the nextopportunity that put me on a new
and wonderful journeyenvironment for my growth and
the next opportunity that put meon a new and wonderful journey.
I'm sure you'll probably hearmore details about those
experiences someday.
But back to Carly.
I met her on this career bridge.
(01:38):
I knew her mom, so I knew ofCarly, but I got to see for
myself what a delightful younggirl she was when I took a
position at her elementaryschool.
Although my interactions withher were brief, I was struck
even then by her maturity.
I am not surprised at where sheis in her life right now, but
if you told me that we would bechatting on my podcast, I would
have laughed in disbelief.
I reached out to Carly andinvited her to be my guest
(01:59):
because I have seen some of herrecent journey on social media.
She's in college now.
One of the best parts of mycareer, hands down, has been my
own work with college students.
They are quite simply my heart.
We think of college as ajourney for the mind, but
helping young people navigatethe emotional road was so
humbling and I felt blessed thatthey allowed me to walk part of
(02:22):
that with them.
Sometimes college is the firsttime women really start to see
all the roads open to them.
I know for me I didn't get thesame encouragement from some
adults in my life as guys did,but I also know that I was a
listener and a connector,whether by genetics or
conditioning, and I almostinstinctively gravitated away
(02:43):
from STEM careers and chose amajor of psychology, just like
Carly.
But as a lover of biology and agreat fixer of household stuff,
I often wonder what would havehappened if I had been
encouraged to explore differentoptions.
But beyond the messages forfemales related to careers was
the unique social terrain weneeded to navigate in college.
(03:04):
Although now many of theoutreach programs in higher
education deal with making safechoices, I don't remember much
about that.
When I was Carly's age First,we didn't have cell phones, so
safety looked much different.
We didn't carry in our pocketsa way to get help, but we also
had a social world that was moreinsulated and less fraught.
(03:25):
We didn't have the fun or thestress of communicating through
texts or creating andmaintaining streaks on Snapchat
or seeing pics of peopletogether at parties where we
weren't invited, but myuniversity was actually on the
list of top party schools at thetime.
So had I not had a really coolfriend group of both
(03:46):
non-dramatic girls and trulyprotective, platonic male
friends.
I may have way more harrowingstories to tell.
Navigating not only femalefriendships but romantic or
sexual relationships can be awild ride for women in an
environment that marries intenseacademic pressure with
immersion in a world of hundredsto thousands of people your own
(04:07):
age, and often it is the firsttime young people get to make
every decision for themselveswhat time to get out of bed,
what time to go to bed, whetherto study all night instead of
going to bed what, or whether toeat.
How to connect to people in theclassroom that are seated next
to them a total stranger, notsomeone who they have known
(04:28):
since they were five or 12, howto share living space with
strangers.
Anyway, I have helped youngwomen work through the imposter
syndrome of changing majors tosomething they never dreamed
they could do, to communicatingwith professors when the power
differential made them want togive up, to standing in their
space and recognizing that theirbody was theirs and that they
(04:50):
could make boundaries.
I've also helped more womenthan I want to count with
navigating the aftermath of anassault, with the institutional
policies and the emotionalheartbreak that go along with it
.
So I asked Carly to join metoday because I wanted to see,
from the eyes and heart ofsomeone who is living it, what
her college journey was like asa female.
(05:11):
What did she learn outside ofthe classroom and what would she
tell other young women who arejust starting to think about
what they want to do after highschool?
What did she wish she knew andwhat surprised her?
Let's dive in.
Carly is a senior at theUniversity of Pittsburgh, where
she majors in psychology.
In the fall, she will beattending Columbia University to
(05:32):
embark upon her Master ofScience degree in occupational
therapy.
She loves traveling and shetook the opportunity to study
abroad in Cyprus last spring,where she had the amazing
opportunity to visit eightcountries.
She has been a swimmer sinceshe was seven years old and she
loves to read, of course, whenshe's done with her academic
papers.
And finally, she is a hugeTaylor Swift fan.
(05:55):
Welcome to no Shrinking Violets.
Carly, I am so glad you're here.
Carli (06:00):
Thank you so much for having me.
This is amazing.
Mary (06:03):
We're just going to jump right in.
So, as a high school female,what experiences were?
Flashbulb moments so in otherwords, times that, when you
think back, really stand out inyour memory that helped you to
decide that you wanted to attendcollege after graduation?
Carli (06:20):
Yeah, so one of my main things was I had the opportunity
to work with our school's lifeskills classroom so that's a
classroom where kids of alldifferent abilities are there
and they're getting a morespecialized education that that
(06:47):
was something that I wanted todo in my career.
So I knew, with that, I wouldobviously be needing to go to
college.
I didn't know if it would besomething like teaching like my
mom, if I wanted to go into thator something in a more clinical
sense or therapy or anythinglike that, but I knew that all
of those options would require acollege degree.
So I was always.
I always knew that I was goingto go to college.
(07:07):
It was never really a question.
Growing up with a teacher.
As a mom, education was alwayssomething that was prioritized
in our house and with that Iknew that I wanted to see a
place that was bigger than whereI just went to high school.
Mary (07:23):
Okay, and Pittsburgh certainly is bigger than where I
just went to high school.
Okay, and Pittsburgh certainlyis bigger than where you grew up
, right yeah?
Carli (07:29):
Yeah, it's a bigger city but it's not as stressful as
being in a New York typepopulation or maybe like just a
huge metropolitan I don't knowthe word.
I'm looking for metropolitantype city.
So it's nice because it'sbasically a campus within a city
.
So I really loved that kind ofbalance and stuff, where I knew
(07:53):
that I could take a bus to getto those bigger areas and
everything, but I also had thecomfort of being oh, I can walk
to my classes, I can feel safegoing, you know, to different
buildings and going to friends'houses and everything like that.
Mary (08:07):
Yeah.
Well, as I mentioned in myintro, I started in the major of
psychology, but that onlylasted a semester or two and I
actually switched to education.
So did you ever yeah, did youever rethink that?
Or did you start in psych andstay with it?
Carli (08:24):
I started in psych and stayed with it.
But I will say I knew I wantedto do occupational therapy since
junior year of high school.
But I had kind of thiscrossroads where I was like,
well, do I do kind of afive-year program where I do
three years rushed undergrad andthen the two years of the
(08:44):
master's program and I'm out infive years, and that kind of
constricts me, though tooccupational therapy, because
you can't when you're in thatprogram you're not switching.
That's just how it is.
Or I could do the four years ofpsychology undergrad and think
about If I wanted to dosomething different with it, if
I wanted to be a counselor, if Iwanted to.
(09:05):
There's so many different thingsyou can do with psychology.
You can basically go to anygrad school type of program you
wanted to.
So I knew that that was theoption I wanted to do, just
because I didn't want toconstrict myself, even though I
knew I would probably end up inOT, didn't want to like feel
(09:28):
like I was trapped in case I diddiscover that I loved other
things, based on the classes Iwas taking and stuff.
Mary (09:31):
And I feel like that definitely worked out for me
because, even though I amcontinuing with occupational
therapy, I still feel like I hadthe option to explore all these
other different possibilitieswithin the major Well, and one
thing I will say from my timeworking at colleges is you might
actually be in the minority nowthat you did not change your
major, and I don't know if younavigated that with friends, but
(09:55):
I know that that is really asource of a lot of angst
sometimes for young peoplebecause they are expected to, at
such a young age, pick thispath, and I think when you get
to a school, especially a largerschool like Pitt, you can start
to see all these things youdidn't even know existed.
(10:16):
You might have friends that arepursuing something, even if it's
an extracurricular, and it canbe like oh my gosh, that is so
cool and it can be, first of all, overwhelming.
But there also still seems tobe this idea that if you change
your major, you have made amistake with your choice, and I
feel, like in anything in life,you don't know what you know
(10:38):
until you learn it right.
Carli (10:40):
Exactly.
Yeah, pitt is a little bitunique because they don't have
you declare a major until youhave a certain amount of credits
towards that major.
So usually it's by the end ofyour freshman year, or even
sophomore year, depending onwhat it is.
But I do completely agree withyou.
You're 18 years old andsuddenly you're supposed to
decide what you want to do withthe rest of your life.
(11:01):
It's crazy picking which schoolyou go to.
That depends on so manydifferent things what your major
is going to be, where you'regoing to live, all these things.
It's really overwhelming forsomeone so young.
You're basically deciding whatyou want to do with the rest of
your life and with that, if youfeel like you're on a wrong
(11:22):
track, you're completely right.
It does feel like you're doingsomething wrong, even though
that's the entire point ofcollege.
I look back at who I was at 18.
And even though it was onlythree years ago, I feel like
I've changed so much in everyaspect of my life since then.
So it's hard.
I feel like it's a lot ofpressure for kids that age to
(11:44):
have to make those decisions.
Mary (11:46):
Yeah, and some people choose their school based on
their major and yours is more ofa general.
You find psychology at nearlyevery college, but if you had
decided that you wanted to gointo something different that
was much more specialized, youmight have had to switch schools
too.
So I kind of want to normalizethat, that you can make a choice
(12:08):
based on the information youhave at the time, and especially
when you have had limitedexperience I mean, you were in
the same school district yourentire life, right so?
And some people switch schooldistricts so they're going to
get a little bit widerexperiences but that idea of
(12:28):
I've made a mistake because I'mchanging my major or I have to
change schools to get the majorI want, you know that's part of
life, the life journey, and Iwould like to normalize that for
young people and also parents,because it's a lot sometimes
goes into the parents' decisionabout if they're going to
contribute finances or how faraway is the school and moving
(12:51):
their student in and all ofthose things.
But you should have that spiritof exploration.
I think that here's what I wouldtell my students when I was a
high school counselor what doyou want to do next, not.
What do you want to do for therest of your life?
Because I don't even know thatand I'm quite a bit older than
you.
So now you mentioned your momand I said in my intro I knew
(13:15):
her because I worked with her.
She was a teacher at the highschool I worked at actually one
of the best teachers.
But what role overall did yourparents or other important
adults play in your decision tojust not only attend Pittsburgh
but maybe your choice of major?
Carli (13:33):
Yeah, so my parents have always been very open.
The major, I don't thinkmattered as much.
You know my sister's in graphicdesign and that's, you know a
little bit more of anunconventional field than you
know psychology, like somethingthat has like that guaranteed
type of job.
So that part wasn't really asmuch of a discussion.
(13:53):
But for University ofPittsburgh it kind of was a draw
between finances and locationat that point because I knew if
I was going to be majoring inpsychology I would have to go to
graduate school becauseunfortunately with an
undergraduate degree likepsychology, there's a limited
(14:15):
amount of things that you can dowith just the bachelor's now
and as annoying as that is,that's just the facts of it.
That's just what it is rightnow.
So I knew that I was going tohave to attend grad school and
obviously that was going to costa lot and so luckily and very
grateful for it, my parents knewthat they would be able to help
(14:36):
me pay for undergrad but theywouldn't be able to help with
graduate school.
So I kind of had this likebalance and stuff that I wanted
to do because I did get acceptedto other universities and they
were so expensive forundergraduate Like it was insane
and I knew well, if I go there,I'm going to be taking out a
(14:58):
bunch of different loans doingthat.
Or I can go to Pitt, which isequally a great school, if not
better, for the major ofpsychology than these other
schools, and I can be taken careof financially there.
So that's ultimately thedecision that we decided to go
for.
Mary (15:14):
Yeah, and it's really cool that you had parents that have
attended college, that are wereinvested in your education.
That's unfortunately not theexperience of some young people.
They're very much on their own,but you have a level head.
I mean, I think you always havehad a little bit of a higher
level of maturity, so you knowyou had to weigh all of these
(15:37):
things.
So it's pretty cool that youhad people there that could you
could bounce things off of andthat would help you make those
decisions.
And, as I mentioned, I chose asimilar path and I've talked on
this show in past episodes aboutthe gender-connected traits, so
(15:59):
, for instance, connecting andlistening, something called
invisible labor and how women doa lot of things behind the
scenes in the workplace and athome to keep things running.
If I had to do it over again,maybe I would have chosen
science.
I don't know, but do you feellike you had any experiences
(16:20):
along the way, as you've lookedback, that maybe sent a more
gender-specific message that youshould do a specific thing with
your future?
Carli (16:29):
Something that comes to mind when you ask.
That is a certain experiencethat I had in high school
actually.
So I was pretty outspoken inhigh school.
It was a very interestingpolitical climate, especially
where I went to school and I,you know, spoke out for what I
(16:51):
believed in on social media, inyou know, real life
conversations, everything likethat.
However, as you know, withwhere my high school was, that
wasn't, you know, the mainopinions, so I did receive a lot
of, you know.
A simple term would be backlashagainst it, but a more serious
(17:13):
term was cyberbullying.
I was constantly being heckledparagraphs posting on my
Instagram page.
Someone took a screenshot of meand, like, posted it on their
own account and said that I wasa baby killer.
I hadn't mentioned anythingabout abortion in this thing,
but they just saw things likethat, yeah, and we tried
(17:34):
reporting it to the schools andstuff, and they were like, well,
you know, it hasn't, likethere's not enough things, even
though this was three separateboys that were constantly
commenting 10 different things,yet that wasn't enough evidence
for them to get in trouble.
So it was things like thatwhere I don't know if it was
just a gender specific thing orif it was just the politics of
(17:55):
the school.
But I knew I was like I have tocontinue this education because
they won't type of thing andthe people that I was arguing
with they're not going tocollege and you know that's fine
for them.
But I knew that whatever Iwanted to do, I wanted to make a
difference and I was veryinterested in law for those
(18:19):
years in high school.
I wanted to do something withlaw and I was dead set on it.
I applied to schools in DC.
That was kind of where I wasdeciding originally was Pitt and
these schools in DC, but ofcourse they were the ones that
were extremely expensive and Iwas like, well, once I figured
(18:41):
out that law might not be for me, it was just a little bit too
much paperwork and things likethat and just I wasn't going to
be completely comfortable beingin front of a courtroom.
I was like, okay, well thenthat's when I looked into
psychology or anything else thatI can still try to make that
impact and change people's lives.
(19:01):
That's really what I wanted todo, and not that that directly
relates to all those things thathappened to me in high school,
but I know that during that timehow all those guys because I
went to therapy during that time, because it was so and I'm not
like ashamed to admit that theyhelped me and I knew I was like
(19:27):
I want to maybe be someone thatcan help someone going through
those situations as well,because I was an easy target.
I was, I was a girl and that'sthe type of thing they knew that
like they could hurt me bysaying certain things and I they
were allowed to have theiropinions and they could post
about it all they wanted, but Icouldn't say my opinion without
you know, facing any of thatbacklash.
(19:47):
So I think that really had astrong impact on deciding like
that.
I knew I wanted to try to makethat difference.
Mary (19:53):
Yeah, well, so interestingly, another theme
that has come up often is howwomen treat other women, and
when you first mentioned thecyberbullying, in my mind I
assumed it was females, but itwas not.
Carli (20:10):
It was not, not in high school, it was boys in high
school.
Yeah.
Mary (20:15):
Okay.
So, you really stood in yourspace.
And, again, huge theme that Ifeel is important is that women
should take up their space, thatwe are often given these
guardrails that we didn't putthere.
(20:35):
But we learn pretty quickly oh,somebody wants me in this lane
and we can make our own lane.
And I think you, we can makeour own lane and I think you,
from a young age, decided thatyou were going to, you know,
take the guardrails down thatsomebody else tried to put there
and you were going to make yourown path.
That's really brave.
(20:55):
And then to reflect on thatexperience and I love that you
talked about being in therapy,because there's nobody I know In
fact, there are no wonderfultherapists that I know
personally that have not been intherapy because it's just
something that when you hit arough spot, when you have that
(21:17):
person who cares but can do itin a way that's not apparent or
not a friend, and you can sayanything, you can say anything
and you can really work throughthings.
It sounds like that helped yousort of find your center or keep
your center, and then you wantto pay that forward in
supporting other people goingforward.
Yeah, exactly.
(21:38):
Which is pretty cool.
So I was going to ask you.
By the way, congratulations onyour acceptance to Columbia.
That is very cool.
Thank you so much.
I was going to ask you.
By the way, congratulations onyour acceptance to Columbia.
That is very cool.
Thank you so much.
I was going to ask about yourthought process, but it sounds
like you really covered that.
That you knew pretty early on.
First of all, you're right Inpsychology you're pretty much
committed to doing something asa graduate program because, for
(22:02):
people who don't know, you can'tbe a therapist with a
bachelor's degree in psychology.
If you want a license, you haveto pursue social work.
To get a social work license,you have to pursue a master's in
counseling to be a licensedprofessional counselor, which is
what I am.
And if it's still the same, youcan't actually be a licensed
(22:22):
psychologist unless you have adoctoral degree in psychology.
So you knew, stepping on thatpath, that you had a bunch of
years to get under your belt.
Carli (22:33):
Yes, exactly I knew whether it was psych or OT.
I was going to have to go tograd school, Mm hmm.
Mary (22:38):
Now, that's quite a different path, though, because
now you are going to kind ofmake that turn into something
that is much more of a.
You're going to need to know alot of anatomy, a lot of
physical stuff, not that thereisn't a lot of, I feel like,
emotional support in that role.
I just had to have PT, likeabout nine months ago, and a lot
(23:00):
of that was my brain wanting todefeat my motivation.
Was there any moment that youcan remember that you were like,
okay, yeah, this is the rightpath I want to go towards?
Ot.
Carli (23:14):
Most recently, in the past two years, I started
working at a camp forindividuals that have Down
syndrome autism, for individualsthat have Down syndrome, autism
, cerebral palsy, neurologicaldisorders, anything of the sorts
and the camp is for kids agedlike eight.
We have campers that are 33.
(23:35):
And really working with thatpopulation of kids, young adults
, adults, I just went into workevery day and I loved it and it
was the type of job where it washard.
It was hard work we'reassisting and feeding, bathroom,
(23:55):
everything like that and it wasalmost like a test for me,
though, because I knew I need todo something in this realm.
If I want to go into pediatrics, I need to see if I can handle
it, and it was a test and Ibelieve I passed it because it
was successful and I was likethis is truly something I want
(24:18):
to do.
Yes, it's hard work, but it'ssomething that I come home proud
of myself, I feel proud of mycampers, and that's all that you
can ask for in a career.
You know, yes, it's hard workand it can be hard at times.
You know waking up and you'relike man, like I don't know if I
want to.
You know dance and stuff for anhour today, but like you still
(24:39):
do it because you know I lovethose kids and I would do
anything for them.
I love those kids and I woulddo anything for them and I knew
that if I can have a careerwhere I get to do stuff like
that and see that progress,that's all I can ask for.
And it just felt like thatbeautiful click of that final
piece of the puzzle where I waslike, yes, this is what I want
(25:01):
to do.
And that's such a satisfyingfeeling because, like we talked
about, there's all those thingsand that come into the whole
picture of it and I am veryhappy with that decision to
decide to work there and ittruly just helped solidify that
(25:22):
decision that I wanted to do OT.
Mary (25:23):
Well, and that can branch off to on with the idea of if
there is somebody in college whoisn't quite sure, do the work
get an internship.
So I mean, a lot of majorsrequire it, but do the work test
it out, because theory in aclassroom is way different than
real life and you talked aboutthat.
(25:45):
It's really a different kind ofintimacy.
When you are working withsomebody physically, you're in
their space and you know when itis young, young kids that might
have issues where you need todo some cleanup, right it's,
it's pretty, it's prettyintimate in a different way.
So very cool that you actuallytested.
(26:08):
You tested the theory, testedthe evidence.
Here's what I think I want to do.
So it's really nice to havethat sense of being sure.
So I'm going to turn a littlebit, take a little bit of a
detour into onto a differentpath.
When you got to college I meanI think we all have an idea what
it's going to be like you knew,you liked the city itself, but
was there anything that youexperienced once you were
(26:30):
enrolled in college thatsurprised you?
Carli (26:33):
Not necessarily surprised me.
I think the culture of schooland college is something that is
different.
Like you described in yourintro, it is that whole new
realm of freedom and I never hadnecessarily strict parents, but
I was always a verywell-behaved kid.
I was never doing anythingreally out of the lines.
(26:55):
And you have this whole thingwhere it is simple, things like,
oh, I can stay up till 3 am andsleep until 1 pm and my mom's
not going to be like Hello, areyou alive?
But also those things of likedo I go to class this day?
Do I go to this party?
Do I talk with this person?
(27:16):
There's a lot of little thingsand especially during
orientation week, freshmen arekind of thrust into this.
You know huge environment andpits, a giant school for those
that don't know, and so I havelike thousands of people in just
like my class and so you dothese social things and you do
(27:37):
like the orientation stuff andyou're trying to meet your group
and everyone is just trying tomake friends.
So you know everyone's supersocial and stuff.
During those first few weeksEveryone makes their group quote
, unquote.
But what happens when thatgroup doesn't work out?
You know that was an experiencethat happened to me.
(27:57):
I had my group that I met inthat beginning of the week and
it didn't work out.
It was not the right group forme.
So I think it's just you gointo this with this idea that,
like you're going to make yourbest friends in this very first
week and they're going to be,you know, your sisters for the
rest of your life or you knowbrothers, whatever, and it's not
(28:21):
always like that.
I made friends sophomore yearand junior year and still senior
year, and it's just this ideathat, like you can't close
yourself off to new people ornew opportunities.
And that is something thatsurprised me, I think, was just
like how people found the group.
And they were just kind of likehow people found the group and
they were just kind of like theneveryone was over it and it was
(28:42):
like wait, what?
Like I don't have my group,like what are you talking about?
Type of thing.
So that was kind of a hard pillto swallow at first, I think.
Mary (28:51):
Yeah, and you strike me as pretty social, like you can
make those connections.
But that's a big hurdle for alot of college freshmen.
And again we mentioned you werein the same school district
your whole life.
So unless somebody moved in,there weren't new people to get
to know.
And if there were, you were inthe majority, right, they were
the new person.
So when you're walking into aresidence hall or a classroom or
(29:17):
a social event and they're allstrangers, that can be really
tough.
And yes, there's another,sometimes unrealistic
expectation that, oh, whoever Iconnect with, first they're
going to be my people and as youget to know them it's like not
so much.
And then you have to navigatethat right, that distancing.
(29:40):
Connecting to other peopleheaven forbid, they're a
roommate, so that's a wholeother podcast.
But yes, that can be reallychallenging because you're also
pulling together people thathave way different, diverse
backgrounds.
That again, as you mentioned,where you and even I grew up,
(30:02):
there wasn't a lot of diversity,and so that can be really cool
and refreshing, but it can alsobe a huge learning experience to
how do you connect and buildbridges between all these
different types of people.
But did you ever feel likethere were different
expectations for you as a female.
Carli (30:21):
I feel like Pitt is a very diverse school and it is
more of a liberal school for themost part.
I never really felt like a hugegap.
However, when I first read thisquestion, something that did
pop into my mind was I took acourse about two years ago and I
had this professor and he waskind of out there.
(30:42):
He was a little bit strange andyou know, that's fine, wasn't
really an issue.
So we were doing thesepresentations on some type of
social issue, cultural issue,something like that, and my
group had decided it was likebased on a book and stuff too,
or a piece of media.
And so my friend had read thispoem or this like group of poems
(31:03):
.
It was called the husbandstitch and it was basically
about like how women give birthand stuff and if they like tear
then they would be like stitchedup and stuff and it's like for
the husband.
So we were doing thispresentation on that and in the
very beginning there wastechnical issues.
For some reason the cord wasnot plugging in right, it was
not broadcasting to the littleTV thing that we were using and
(31:27):
our teacher just got super upsetwith us, like it put a whole
tone on the class where it wasjust very uncomfortable.
We could tell like he was justnot using appropriate language
and stuff with this thing.
And obviously it wasn't ourfault, like if it was our fault
and we messed up the actualpresentation, we would take
accountability for that.
But the presentation hadn'teven started and now there's
(31:47):
this whole weird tone in theroom where people are like, well
, this is awkward type of thing,so it kind of messed up our
whole presentation that we hadworked hard on.
And it made me mad because Iwas like well, we have had two
guys in this class who look likethey just spent five minutes on
their project and you didn'tseem to care at all.
But you can tell we worked hardand you're going to berate us
(32:07):
on this for a technologicalissue.
And we go back to our desksafter and my two group mates who
were two of my really closefriends at the time they were
upset and I was like, listen,like this is, this is kind of BS
.
Like pardon my French.
I was like this is ridiculous.
We didn't do anything wrong andI'm not the type of person
where I will automatically tryto stick up for myself, but I
(32:30):
saw that it upset them and I waswilling to, you know, do
something about it.
So as we're leaving, I go up tohim and I'm like, hey, I just
want to let you know that wasextremely inappropriate of you
to do.
I was like, you know, thatwasn't our fault and you saw our
presentation and you know youdid well, but it ruined it for
the rest of the class because ofhow you spoke to us in the
beginning and I was like thatwasn't okay.
(32:51):
And he tries.
He's like oh, I didn't did whatyou did and that's just what it
is.
And I walked out.
And then the next class he comesup to us and he's like I'm
really sorry and stuff like, andI was like what's too late?
Now it's too late.
And then we had to review otherpresenters and ours was the
highest rated.
So that was like always nice tohave.
(33:12):
But I was like, yeah, like youyelled at us, yeah, we had the
best one, and there's otherpeople in the class that you
know didn't do anything and youdon't seem to care.
I'm like why were you so quickto get mad at us, type of thing.
So I don't know if that's likea different expectation, but
that's just this anecdote that Ithink about.
With things like that, it'sdefinitely more quick to anger,
more quick to question as afemale for sure.
Mary (33:34):
Well, and that standing in your space and speaking that
truth, we'll say you werespeaking your truth, but
interestingly, you qualified itby saying well, it was easier
because these girls were upsetor my friends were upset, so
it's easier for you to take thatstand, maybe when there's other
people involved.
(33:55):
Do you think if it had justbeen you, if it was only your
presentation, do you think youwould have said anything?
Carli (34:01):
I don't think I would have.
Honestly, I think I would havebeen upset by it and I probably
would have called my mom andcried after, but because I saw
how much it upset them and I wasupset too, but I was able to do
it for them instead of, likeselfishly, doing it for myself.
I guess I don't know if selfishwould be the right word, but
yeah.
Mary (34:20):
Yeah, self-advocacy is what I would say.
But again, you know, there'swhere some of that socialization
comes in, that when it's justus as women, sometimes it's
easier to just go along, like goalong to get along or get along
to go along, whatever thesaying is.
But there's a lot of strength innumbers.
So, when women can support eachother, and not just in a shared
(34:45):
endeavor like what you had, butI think in life in general,
there's a lot of strength inthat, because you just set an
example and, although I don'tknow if anybody heard what you
did, it also sends a message oflook, you can actually speak
your mind even to somebody wherethere's a power differential.
(35:07):
And there I know there are many, many, not just women but guys
that would not have confronted aprofessor.
So that takes a special kind ofstrength and interestingly, you
were able to find that becauseyou were doing it for the good
of the whole instead of justyourself.
As you can see, I've pulledlike the gender thread on so
(35:29):
many things.
So was there anything that youwish you would have known or
anything that you would tellyour younger self if you could
make certain decisions overagain?
Carli (35:40):
Younger self, in the sense of even just in the
beginning of college.
I feel like I would tell myselfa lot of different things.
I mentioned that group andstuff that I first, you know,
hung out with in the beginning.
It caused my freshman year tobe truly horrible.
It caused my freshman year tobe truly horrible, like I wanted
to transfer, I hated, I hatedPitt, I was miserable and they
(36:09):
made my life a living hell.
And I often think to myself,well, if I just hadn't talked to
them at the bus stop that onetime you know we lived in the
same building, yes, but I thereare a lot of people lived in
that building that I wasn'tfriends with, you know, and I'm
like, well, if I just hadn'tdone that or hadn't done that,
you know whatever, but it taughtme lessons about friendship and
trust and everything like that,but I would have never gotten
(36:29):
if I hadn't experienced that.
So, yes, I would have loved tonot have been depressed my
freshman year.
That would have been great, butalso, you't change it.
So, if it was going to happen,I'm glad it did Because, like I
said, I now have betterfriendships and I'm stronger
than I ever would have beenwithout those things.
If I could tell really, reallyyoung me something I don't know,
(36:53):
I feel like just speak yourtruth, more like be confident in
yourself and that you are agood person and you are smart,
and you don't have to hide anyof those things for anyone,
whether it would be, you know, aboy, or for conformity or for
any reasons.
I just wish sometimes we couldjust push ourselves a little bit
(37:14):
and be like it's okay, likeyou're good as yourself.
You know you don't have toconform to all these different
things just because everyoneelse is.
Mary (37:21):
When you talk about your freshman year and saying you
hated Pitt I'm glad that yousaid that that strongly, because
I can't tell you how manyfreshmen I've had that say the
same thing and to be able tomake that decision.
Is it truly my environment or isthis truly a social issue where
(37:42):
I'm going to learn, I'm goingto get through it, I'm going to
make it and again, there'snothing wrong with transferring
from a social conflict.
You know now, right, that thatwouldn't have been the answer,
(38:03):
because even though you wantedto get away from it, it would be
a do-over.
There's always conflicts inlife and you strike me as
someone who you sort of willwade in there if you have to
right.
You're not going to see a needor see someone in distress or
see an injustice and just turnaround and be like bye.
You know you're going toactually want to address that.
(38:24):
And the other interesting pointI would make is I would see
posts along the way on socialmedia.
A lot of them were your mom's,but to me it's like oh, carly is
flourishing in every singleaspect, and so I also want
people to understand that whatthey see online is not the full
story.
Carli (38:44):
Yes, absolutely my freshman year.
I would post football games,like everything like that.
And honestly, I had a greatfall semester.
It was the spring semesterwhere all those issues were
starting to crumble around meand the only reason why I did
not transfer was because I had alease signed and I didn't want
to break that lease.
And the only reason why I didnot transfer was because I had a
lease signed and I didn't wantto break that lease and because
that would have just been toomuch hassle and issue and stuff
(39:06):
and I was like I just got tostick it out.
It was hard.
Like that first fall semesterback after, I was so anxious all
the time, I was so worried.
I was going to see them and Idid see them.
I had class with one of thegirls this past semester and you
know, I on that first day I waslike oh my God, you're, you
cannot be serious.
Like it's senior year, like I'vesomehow avoided having class
(39:28):
with them for the last threeyears, but on this last year, of
course, and but it was fine.
I was like it's fine, you know.
Like it's just, that's just howlife is.
We go to the same school.
Like it's just life you can'trun away from all of your
problems and not, you know again, transferring.
Sometimes that is the bestchoice for someone, but for me
(39:50):
I'm so glad that I stuck it outbecause you're right, if you're
running away from a socialproblem, it's just going to come
back and probably the nextschool, you know Like, if you're
not learning that lesson aboutwhat to do or what not to do in
those situations, then how willyou correct it in the future?
Mary (40:06):
Was that dynamic different with her when, now that you're
a senior and had to be kind ofin her orbit?
Carli (40:13):
I think it was because we both just kind of have this
mutual thing where it's like,basically don't look at me, I
won't look at you, we're justhere to do class.
Attendance is mandatory, we'reboth going to be here every
Monday and Wednesday, and that'sjust the way it is.
But honestly, I'm kind of gladI had it because I was like well
, I actually don't have to havea pit of despair in my stomach
(40:35):
every time I walk past them onthe street now, because it's
like you don't have that type ofcontrol over my life anymore,
you know, and that's satisfying.
Mary (40:45):
Yeah, and I think that idea of empowering yourself.
You know we easily give ourpower away when it's a situation
like that.
It's a power thing.
Bullying is about power and itsounds like there were a bunch
of them, you know, which makesit even more difficult.
But when you can stand in thatsense of power or or feel
empowered with positive thoughtsand knowing I have just as much
(41:08):
right to be here.
I have not done anything,that's sort of the path through
sometimes, even though it'sreally hard.
Okay.
Carli (41:15):
So last question If you were going to give women a top
five so important to choose yourfriends wisely, the best
(41:40):
friends that you're going tohave are going to be fun but
also be good for you, because,yes, there's strength in having
a lot of different friends, butfinding friends that are on the
same page as you helps you to beon that right path.
So it gives you a person thatyou can look to and be like.
These are our goals.
(42:01):
We're going to do it.
And kind of an underneath thingbut also a second on the list
is if someone is talking badlyabout other people in front of
you, they're other friends.
They are talking bad about youfriends.
They are talking bad about you.
If you surround yourself withpeople that are negative, that
(42:28):
are just rude to other people,that talk poorly about their
friends.
They're doing the same thing toyou.
You're not special, you don'tget a pass.
Someone's talking about theirbest friend from high school
poorly to you.
Why would they not be talkingbad about you, the girl that
they've only known for fourweeks?
My other thing would be asituation with guys is that if
you are nice to guys, they willthink that you are attracted to
(42:49):
them.
This is because in their mind,usually they will never be
outwardly nice to a woman ifthey don't find them attractive.
So you have to kind of havethat you know weird balance in
your head where you're like ifyou just compliment someone,
they're like oh my God, she's inlove with me.
It's like well, I'm actuallyjust trying to be polite,
(43:10):
because in their mind they'relike well, why would I
compliment someone that I don'twant to take home tonight?
So I feel like that issomething that has stuck with me
ever since I've seen thatlittle quote on social media.
It is always something you haveto watch.
You have to be careful becausepeople get wrong signals and if
you do like them, okay, that'sdifferent, but you have to be
careful.
(43:30):
Another list I would do would beto talk to the people in your
classes.
They are people that are likelyin the same major as you,
people in clubs, especially.
I joined like three and I endedup with one and now I'm the
president of it.
So you just keep doing the onesand you will find your groups
in those people because you allhave a mutual interest.
So try to just have just onething that you're going to
(43:54):
outside of class, whether it's asport or it is a club or an
academic thing, like somethingthat you are pushing yourself
outside of, just being in yourroom.
That is so important.
Freshman year, I feel like,especially, is do not rot in
your bedroom.
Like go out and do stuff.
Like you don't have to go outto a bar or a club or a party or
something, but like go to aclub or something, go to a
(44:16):
lecture on whatever.
Like at Pitt especially, it's ahuge school, there's always
something happening, and even atsmaller schools there's more
happening than you probablythink there are happening.
And then I don't know if it'sbeen five, but my last one would
be be proactive in advocatingfor yourself, because no one's
going to do it for you.
You are in charge of yourselfin college.
(44:37):
Your mom and dad aren't lookingover your shoulder.
You're the one that is incharge of your future.
It's great to have socialthings in college, obviously,
but you are there to get yourdegree.
So that's always just beenimportant for me, with all the
different examples we've saidduring this.
You are the person that has toadvocate for yourself.
You have to be proactive instanding up for yourself and
(44:57):
being confident and justsurrounding yourself by people
that actually bring you joy andlift you up.
Mary (45:03):
Yeah, and so you said so many things that I want to
respond to.
So the most recent what youjust said.
Of course, when working in acollege, you do hear the
frustration from parents aboutnot being able to access some
information on their students,their grades.
That is frustrating, especiallyif you're paying the bill and
(45:24):
you feel like you should knowall of that.
But I'm going to say to parentsallow your child to flounder
sometimes, because if you bailthem out with everything or you
nag them about those grades,they're not going to learn to
stand fully on their own twofeet.
You know, we know how importantgrades are right, but if you're
(45:47):
nagging and nagging, the lessondoesn't get learned.
If somebody fails a class andhas to repeat it and then they
have to pay for it or they don'tget the job they want because
their GPA is average or lowerfor certain things, you know
there are natural consequencesthat teach us the lessons and
there are many parents who wantto intervene.
(46:07):
They're really uncomfortablewith their child struggling and
I can only imagine how your momfelt your freshman year.
Knowing her, I can imagine theheartache that she carried
around knowing that you werestruggling.
But you made it and she is nota mom that's going to swoop in
in situations.
Carli (46:27):
I'm sure she listened a lot right and she was she
listened to me cry in thecafeteria on FaceTime and stuff
and she always said she wasalways supportive.
She said, you know I will comepick you up right now, type of
thing, you know.
But she also knew that iteventually was going to be okay
and I feel like it's that trustand stuff that your child will
come to you if they're trulystruggling.
(46:49):
You know, hopefully if you havethat relationship I do with my
parents, but yeah, you're rightthat nagging and stuff it just
will push them in the oppositedirection.
Mary (46:58):
And two.
I mean I think some parents arereally concerned because mental
health issues are real right.
So if someone is showing thedepression or a lot of crying or
a lot of anxiety, yes, you doneed to pay attention to that.
And I will say every collegehas a counseling center.
Not that it's easy to access it, because I'm going to tell you
(47:18):
in the middle of the semesterthere can be a wait list.
But if you're going to advocateas a parent, it would be to get
your child the supports theyneed on that campus to help them
be okay and help them to besuccessful.
The other thing you said in thebeginning about friends really
we are the reflection of thefive people closest to us.
(47:40):
So when you think about yourfriend group, or even you know
if your sister is one of those,or even your mom is one of those
five key people, what kind ofpeople are they?
Because your relationships arepredicated on who you're
surrounding yourself with.
So that's really powerful.
And the last thing I wouldrespond to a little bit is the
(48:02):
idea of the male-femaleinteraction, and I've heard from
a lot of females what you'vesaid and I will say most males
mature out of that and I don'twant to paint them all with the
same brush.
But this goes back to again thetheme of gender.
(48:22):
When you're socialized as amale versus socialized as a
female and we see what kind ofmovies, especially comedies, are
out there and what thoserelationships those I'll say
heterosexual relationships looklike, because we also want to be
very clear that that is noteveryone's preference, right.
But when we look at thoseinteractions there are a lot of
(48:44):
guys they don't know anydifferent and I'm not making an
excuse for them, but theyseriously read the signs totally
wrong and then wonder why womenkind of pull the shutters
closed, right, like they givethe cold shoulder.
So there's a lot of educationthat can go on in the college
setting for both males andfemales in navigating these
(49:06):
relationships where you need tobe clear that being friendly
does not mean I want you tospend more time with me in a
different way.
You know all of those kinds ofthings.
So you brought up some reallygood points.
So think about who you connectto.
If a relationship doesn't feelright, then it's probably not
right for you.
(49:26):
It's okay to change your path,change your major, even change
your school, but go into itrealistically, expecting that
you're going to have someconflicts with people and
building those skills.
A great way to do that isthrough the counseling center
realistically expecting thatyou're going to have some
conflicts with people andbuilding those skills.
A great way to do that isthrough the counseling center.
There are so many supports,career center, so learn what
those are.
And Carly mentioned clubs, andnot clubs like dance clubs or
(49:49):
bars, but social clubs likeDungeons and Dragons or a movie
club or outdoor club, like.
There are so many things.
If there's not something thatlights you up, then start it.
Find a faculty advisor andstart it.
So if you're choosing to go tocollege, think about what you're
going to get from the entireexperience.
(50:10):
You're getting the degree, butwhat happens between all of that
, all of that academic stuff?
That's where I think the sweetspot is.
That's where you're learningand growing.
Carli (50:23):
Absolutely.
Mary (50:24):
Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Carly.
Carli (50:28):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's just like reallyincredible to talk about.
Mary (50:33):
Yeah, it was so fun to talk to you and I told her when
she came on to the Zoom.
I'm like, oh my gosh, you lookexactly the same as when you
were 10.
So this was really fun.
This was really fun and I wantto thank all of you for
listening.
If you enjoyed today's show,please comment.
I'd love to hear your thoughtson this topic or your
suggestions for future guests ortopics, and if you'd like to
(50:55):
send comments or questionsdirectly to me, check for a link
in the show notes or find me onthe Buzzsprout app and you can
text me directly.
Even though I can't answerthose texts, I may, who knows,
mention something in one of myshows, but it's a way that if
you want to send a more privatecomment, you can do that and
also consider following my showso you don't miss a thing.
(51:16):
But for now, go out into theworld and be the amazing,
resilient, vibrant Violet thatyou are.
Hey, just a quick note before Itake you to the outro.
I created a top 10 list of whatwomen need to know before
starting college.
This can be a great resourcefor young adults and an
excellent conversation starterfor moms or dads and daughters.
(51:38):
Check the link in the shownotes for the free download.
Welcome to no Shrinking Violence.
I'm your host, mary Rothwell,licensed therapist and certified
integrative mental healthpractitioner.
I've created a space where wecelebrate the intuition and
power of women who want to breakfree from limiting narratives.
We'll explore all realms ofwellness what it means to take
up space unapologetically, andhow your essential nature is key
(00:28):
to living life on your terms.
It's time to own your space,trust your nature and flourish.
Let's dive in.
Hi and welcome to the show.
We're going down a bit of a newroad today.
If you're a parent of ateenaged female, this is for you
, and my hope is that you'llshare this with your daughter or
(00:50):
daughters, or, better yet,listen together.
In a sense, I have known myguest for about 12 years and I
have known of her for a few more.
Her name is Carly May, and Ifirst met her when she was
probably 10 years old, believeit or not, I was her elementary
school counselor.
My time working with theLittles was short, only about a
(01:12):
year and a half.
It was during a weird bridge inmy career, a time between a job
that I loved, but that hadbecome an unhealthy environment
for my growth, and the nextopportunity that put me on a new
and wonderful journeyenvironment for my growth and
the next opportunity that put meon a new and wonderful journey.
I'm sure you'll probably hearmore details about those
experiences someday.
But back to Carly.
I met her on this career bridge.
(01:38):
I knew her mom, so I knew ofCarly, but I got to see for
myself what a delightful younggirl she was when I took a
position at her elementaryschool.
Although my interactions withher were brief, I was struck
even then by her maturity.
I am not surprised at where sheis in her life right now, but
if you told me that we would bechatting on my podcast, I would
have laughed in disbelief.
I reached out to Carly andinvited her to be my guest
(01:59):
because I have seen some of herrecent journey on social media.
She's in college now.
One of the best parts of mycareer, hands down, has been my
own work with college students.
They are quite simply my heart.
We think of college as ajourney for the mind, but
helping young people navigatethe emotional road was so
humbling and I felt blessed thatthey allowed me to walk part of
(02:22):
that with them.
Sometimes college is the firsttime women really start to see
all the roads open to them.
I know for me I didn't get thesame encouragement from some
adults in my life as guys did,but I also know that I was a
listener and a connector,whether by genetics or
conditioning, and I almostinstinctively gravitated away
(02:43):
from STEM careers and chose amajor of psychology, just like
Carly.
But as a lover of biology and agreat fixer of household stuff,
I often wonder what would havehappened if I had been
encouraged to explore differentoptions.
But beyond the messages forfemales related to careers was
the unique social terrain weneeded to navigate in college.
(03:04):
Although now many of theoutreach programs in higher
education deal with making safechoices, I don't remember much
about that.
When I was Carly's age First,we didn't have cell phones, so
safety looked much different.
We didn't carry in our pocketsa way to get help, but we also
had a social world that was moreinsulated and less fraught.
(03:25):
We didn't have the fun or thestress of communicating through
texts or creating andmaintaining streaks on Snapchat
or seeing pics of peopletogether at parties where we
weren't invited, but myuniversity was actually on the
list of top party schools at thetime.
So had I not had a really coolfriend group of both
(03:46):
non-dramatic girls and trulyprotective, platonic male
friends.
I may have way more harrowingstories to tell.
Navigating not only femalefriendships but romantic or
sexual relationships can be awild ride for women in an
environment that marries intenseacademic pressure with
immersion in a world of hundredsto thousands of people your own
(04:07):
age, and often it is the firsttime young people get to make
every decision for themselveswhat time to get out of bed,
what time to go to bed, whetherto study all night instead of
going to bed what, or whether toeat.
How to connect to people in theclassroom that are seated next
to them a total stranger, notsomeone who they have known
(04:28):
since they were five or 12, howto share living space with
strangers.
Anyway, I have helped youngwomen work through the imposter
syndrome of changing majors tosomething they never dreamed
they could do, to communicatingwith professors when the power
differential made them want togive up, to standing in their
space and recognizing that theirbody was theirs and that they
(04:50):
could make boundaries.
I've also helped more womenthan I want to count with
navigating the aftermath of anassault, with the institutional
policies and the emotionalheartbreak that go along with it
.
So I asked Carly to join metoday because I wanted to see,
from the eyes and heart ofsomeone who is living it, what
her college journey was like asa female.
(05:11):
What did she learn outside ofthe classroom and what would she
tell other young women who arejust starting to think about
what they want to do after highschool?
What did she wish she knew andwhat surprised her?
Let's dive in.
Carly is a senior at theUniversity of Pittsburgh, where
she majors in psychology.
In the fall, she will beattending Columbia University to
(05:32):
embark upon her Master ofScience degree in occupational
therapy.
She loves traveling and shetook the opportunity to study
abroad in Cyprus last spring,where she had the amazing
opportunity to visit eightcountries.
She has been a swimmer sinceshe was seven years old and she
loves to read, of course, whenshe's done with her academic
papers.
And finally, she is a hugeTaylor Swift fan.
(05:55):
Welcome to no Shrinking Violets.
Carly, I am so glad you're here.
Carli (06:00):
Thank you so much for having me.
This is amazing.
Mary (06:03):
We're just going to jump right in.
So, as a high school female,what experiences were?
Flashbulb moments so in otherwords, times that, when you
think back, really stand out inyour memory that helped you to
decide that you wanted to attendcollege after graduation?
Carli (06:20):
Yeah, so one of my main things was I had the opportunity
to work with our school's lifeskills classroom so that's a
classroom where kids of alldifferent abilities are there
and they're getting a morespecialized education that that
(06:47):
was something that I wanted todo in my career.
So I knew, with that, I wouldobviously be needing to go to
college.
I didn't know if it would besomething like teaching like my
mom, if I wanted to go into thator something in a more clinical
sense or therapy or anythinglike that, but I knew that all
of those options would require acollege degree.
So I was always.
I always knew that I was goingto go to college.
(07:07):
It was never really a question.
Growing up with a teacher.
As a mom, education was alwayssomething that was prioritized
in our house and with that Iknew that I wanted to see a
place that was bigger than whereI just went to high school.
Mary (07:23):
Okay, and Pittsburgh certainly is bigger than where I
just went to high school.
Okay, and Pittsburgh certainlyis bigger than where you grew up
, right yeah?
Carli (07:29):
Yeah, it's a bigger city but it's not as stressful as
being in a New York typepopulation or maybe like just a
huge metropolitan I don't knowthe word.
I'm looking for metropolitantype city.
So it's nice because it'sbasically a campus within a city
.
So I really loved that kind ofbalance and stuff, where I knew
(07:53):
that I could take a bus to getto those bigger areas and
everything, but I also had thecomfort of being oh, I can walk
to my classes, I can feel safegoing, you know, to different
buildings and going to friends'houses and everything like that.
Mary (08:07):
Yeah.
Well, as I mentioned in myintro, I started in the major of
psychology, but that onlylasted a semester or two and I
actually switched to education.
So did you ever yeah, did youever rethink that?
Or did you start in psych andstay with it?
Carli (08:24):
I started in psych and stayed with it.
But I will say I knew I wantedto do occupational therapy since
junior year of high school.
But I had kind of thiscrossroads where I was like,
well, do I do kind of afive-year program where I do
three years rushed undergrad andthen the two years of the
(08:44):
master's program and I'm out infive years, and that kind of
constricts me, though tooccupational therapy, because
you can't when you're in thatprogram you're not switching.
That's just how it is.
Or I could do the four years ofpsychology undergrad and think
about If I wanted to dosomething different with it, if
I wanted to be a counselor, if Iwanted to.
(09:05):
There's so many different thingsyou can do with psychology.
You can basically go to anygrad school type of program you
wanted to.
So I knew that that was theoption I wanted to do, just
because I didn't want toconstrict myself, even though I
knew I would probably end up inOT, didn't want to like feel
(09:28):
like I was trapped in case I diddiscover that I loved other
things, based on the classes Iwas taking and stuff.
Mary (09:31):
And I feel like that definitely worked out for me
because, even though I amcontinuing with occupational
therapy, I still feel like I hadthe option to explore all these
other different possibilitieswithin the major Well, and one
thing I will say from my timeworking at colleges is you might
actually be in the minority nowthat you did not change your
major, and I don't know if younavigated that with friends, but
(09:55):
I know that that is really asource of a lot of angst
sometimes for young peoplebecause they are expected to, at
such a young age, pick thispath, and I think when you get
to a school, especially a largerschool like Pitt, you can start
to see all these things youdidn't even know existed.
(10:16):
You might have friends that arepursuing something, even if it's
an extracurricular, and it canbe like oh my gosh, that is so
cool and it can be, first of all, overwhelming.
But there also still seems tobe this idea that if you change
your major, you have made amistake with your choice, and I
feel, like in anything in life,you don't know what you know
(10:38):
until you learn it right.
Carli (10:40):
Exactly.
Yeah, pitt is a little bitunique because they don't have
you declare a major until youhave a certain amount of credits
towards that major.
So usually it's by the end ofyour freshman year, or even
sophomore year, depending onwhat it is.
But I do completely agree withyou.
You're 18 years old andsuddenly you're supposed to
decide what you want to do withthe rest of your life.
(11:01):
It's crazy picking which schoolyou go to.
That depends on so manydifferent things what your major
is going to be, where you'regoing to live, all these things.
It's really overwhelming forsomeone so young.
You're basically deciding whatyou want to do with the rest of
your life and with that, if youfeel like you're on a wrong
(11:22):
track, you're completely right.
It does feel like you're doingsomething wrong, even though
that's the entire point ofcollege.
I look back at who I was at 18.
And even though it was onlythree years ago, I feel like
I've changed so much in everyaspect of my life since then.
So it's hard.
I feel like it's a lot ofpressure for kids that age to
(11:44):
have to make those decisions.
Mary (11:46):
Yeah, and some people choose their school based on
their major and yours is more ofa general.
You find psychology at nearlyevery college, but if you had
decided that you wanted to gointo something different that
was much more specialized, youmight have had to switch schools
too.
So I kind of want to normalizethat, that you can make a choice
(12:08):
based on the information youhave at the time, and especially
when you have had limitedexperience I mean, you were in
the same school district yourentire life, right so?
And some people switch schooldistricts so they're going to
get a little bit widerexperiences but that idea of
(12:28):
I've made a mistake because I'mchanging my major or I have to
change schools to get the majorI want, you know that's part of
life, the life journey, and Iwould like to normalize that for
young people and also parents,because it's a lot sometimes
goes into the parents' decisionabout if they're going to
contribute finances or how faraway is the school and moving
(12:51):
their student in and all ofthose things.
But you should have that spiritof exploration.
I think that here's what I wouldtell my students when I was a
high school counselor what doyou want to do next, not.
What do you want to do for therest of your life?
Because I don't even know thatand I'm quite a bit older than
you.
So now you mentioned your momand I said in my intro I knew
(13:15):
her because I worked with her.
She was a teacher at the highschool I worked at actually one
of the best teachers.
But what role overall did yourparents or other important
adults play in your decision tojust not only attend Pittsburgh
but maybe your choice of major?
Carli (13:33):
Yeah, so my parents have always been very open.
The major, I don't thinkmattered as much.
You know my sister's in graphicdesign and that's, you know a
little bit more of anunconventional field than you
know psychology, like somethingthat has like that guaranteed
type of job.
So that part wasn't really asmuch of a discussion.
(13:53):
But for University ofPittsburgh it kind of was a draw
between finances and locationat that point because I knew if
I was going to be majoring inpsychology I would have to go to
graduate school becauseunfortunately with an
undergraduate degree likepsychology, there's a limited
(14:15):
amount of things that you can dowith just the bachelor's now
and as annoying as that is,that's just the facts of it.
That's just what it is rightnow.
So I knew that I was going tohave to attend grad school and
obviously that was going to costa lot and so luckily and very
grateful for it, my parents knewthat they would be able to help
(14:36):
me pay for undergrad but theywouldn't be able to help with
graduate school.
So I kind of had this likebalance and stuff that I wanted
to do because I did get acceptedto other universities and they
were so expensive forundergraduate Like it was insane
and I knew well, if I go there,I'm going to be taking out a
(14:58):
bunch of different loans doingthat.
Or I can go to Pitt, which isequally a great school, if not
better, for the major ofpsychology than these other
schools, and I can be taken careof financially there.
So that's ultimately thedecision that we decided to go
for.
Mary (15:14):
Yeah, and it's really cool that you had parents that have
attended college, that are wereinvested in your education.
That's unfortunately not theexperience of some young people.
They're very much on their own,but you have a level head.
I mean, I think you always havehad a little bit of a higher
level of maturity, so you knowyou had to weigh all of these
(15:37):
things.
So it's pretty cool that youhad people there that could you
could bounce things off of andthat would help you make those
decisions.
And, as I mentioned, I chose asimilar path and I've talked on
this show in past episodes aboutthe gender-connected traits, so
(15:59):
, for instance, connecting andlistening, something called
invisible labor and how women doa lot of things behind the
scenes in the workplace and athome to keep things running.
If I had to do it over again,maybe I would have chosen
science.
I don't know, but do you feellike you had any experiences
(16:20):
along the way, as you've lookedback, that maybe sent a more
gender-specific message that youshould do a specific thing with
your future?
Carli (16:29):
Something that comes to mind when you ask.
That is a certain experiencethat I had in high school
actually.
So I was pretty outspoken inhigh school.
It was a very interestingpolitical climate, especially
where I went to school and I,you know, spoke out for what I
(16:51):
believed in on social media, inyou know, real life
conversations, everything likethat.
However, as you know, withwhere my high school was, that
wasn't, you know, the mainopinions, so I did receive a lot
of, you know.
A simple term would be backlashagainst it, but a more serious
(17:13):
term was cyberbullying.
I was constantly being heckledparagraphs posting on my
Instagram page.
Someone took a screenshot of meand, like, posted it on their
own account and said that I wasa baby killer.
I hadn't mentioned anythingabout abortion in this thing,
but they just saw things likethat, yeah, and we tried
(17:34):
reporting it to the schools andstuff, and they were like, well,
you know, it hasn't, likethere's not enough things, even
though this was three separateboys that were constantly
commenting 10 different things,yet that wasn't enough evidence
for them to get in trouble.
So it was things like thatwhere I don't know if it was
just a gender specific thing orif it was just the politics of
(17:55):
the school.
But I knew I was like I have tocontinue this education because
they won't type of thing andthe people that I was arguing
with they're not going tocollege and you know that's fine
for them.
But I knew that whatever Iwanted to do, I wanted to make a
difference and I was veryinterested in law for those
(18:19):
years in high school.
I wanted to do something withlaw and I was dead set on it.
I applied to schools in DC.
That was kind of where I wasdeciding originally was Pitt and
these schools in DC, but ofcourse they were the ones that
were extremely expensive and Iwas like, well, once I figured
(18:41):
out that law might not be for me, it was just a little bit too
much paperwork and things likethat and just I wasn't going to
be completely comfortable beingin front of a courtroom.
I was like, okay, well thenthat's when I looked into
psychology or anything else thatI can still try to make that
impact and change people's lives.
(19:01):
That's really what I wanted todo, and not that that directly
relates to all those things thathappened to me in high school,
but I know that during that timehow all those guys because I
went to therapy during that time, because it was so and I'm not
like ashamed to admit that theyhelped me and I knew I was like
(19:27):
I want to maybe be someone thatcan help someone going through
those situations as well,because I was an easy target.
I was, I was a girl and that'sthe type of thing they knew that
like they could hurt me bysaying certain things and I they
were allowed to have theiropinions and they could post
about it all they wanted, but Icouldn't say my opinion without
you know, facing any of thatbacklash.
(19:47):
So I think that really had astrong impact on deciding like
that.
I knew I wanted to try to makethat difference.
Mary (19:53):
Yeah, well, so interestingly, another theme
that has come up often is howwomen treat other women, and
when you first mentioned thecyberbullying, in my mind I
assumed it was females, but itwas not.
Carli (20:10):
It was not, not in high school, it was boys in high
school.
Yeah.
Mary (20:15):
Okay.
So, you really stood in yourspace.
And, again, huge theme that Ifeel is important is that women
should take up their space, thatwe are often given these
guardrails that we didn't putthere.
(20:35):
But we learn pretty quickly oh,somebody wants me in this lane
and we can make our own lane.
And I think you, we can makeour own lane and I think you,
from a young age, decided thatyou were going to, you know,
take the guardrails down thatsomebody else tried to put there
and you were going to make yourown path.
That's really brave.
(20:55):
And then to reflect on thatexperience and I love that you
talked about being in therapy,because there's nobody I know In
fact, there are no wonderfultherapists that I know
personally that have not been intherapy because it's just
something that when you hit arough spot, when you have that
(21:17):
person who cares but can do itin a way that's not apparent or
not a friend, and you can sayanything, you can say anything
and you can really work throughthings.
It sounds like that helped yousort of find your center or keep
your center, and then you wantto pay that forward in
supporting other people goingforward.
Yeah, exactly.
(21:38):
Which is pretty cool.
So I was going to ask you.
By the way, congratulations onyour acceptance to Columbia.
That is very cool.
Thank you so much.
I was going to ask you.
By the way, congratulations onyour acceptance to Columbia.
That is very cool.
Thank you so much.
I was going to ask about yourthought process, but it sounds
like you really covered that.
That you knew pretty early on.
First of all, you're right Inpsychology you're pretty much
committed to doing something asa graduate program because, for
(22:02):
people who don't know, you can'tbe a therapist with a
bachelor's degree in psychology.
If you want a license, you haveto pursue social work.
To get a social work license,you have to pursue a master's in
counseling to be a licensedprofessional counselor, which is
what I am.
And if it's still the same, youcan't actually be a licensed
(22:22):
psychologist unless you have adoctoral degree in psychology.
So you knew, stepping on thatpath, that you had a bunch of
years to get under your belt.
Carli (22:33):
Yes, exactly I knew whether it was psych or OT.
I was going to have to go tograd school, Mm hmm.
Mary (22:38):
Now, that's quite a different path, though, because
now you are going to kind ofmake that turn into something
that is much more of a.
You're going to need to know alot of anatomy, a lot of
physical stuff, not that thereisn't a lot of, I feel like,
emotional support in that role.
I just had to have PT, likeabout nine months ago, and a lot
(23:00):
of that was my brain wanting todefeat my motivation.
Was there any moment that youcan remember that you were like,
okay, yeah, this is the rightpath I want to go towards?
Ot.
Carli (23:14):
Most recently, in the past two years, I started
working at a camp forindividuals that have Down
syndrome autism, for individualsthat have Down syndrome, autism
, cerebral palsy, neurologicaldisorders, anything of the sorts
and the camp is for kids agedlike eight.
We have campers that are 33.
(23:35):
And really working with thatpopulation of kids, young adults
, adults, I just went into workevery day and I loved it and it
was the type of job where it washard.
It was hard work we'reassisting and feeding, bathroom,
(23:55):
everything like that and it wasalmost like a test for me,
though, because I knew I need todo something in this realm.
If I want to go into pediatrics, I need to see if I can handle
it, and it was a test and Ibelieve I passed it because it
was successful and I was likethis is truly something I want
(24:18):
to do.
Yes, it's hard work, but it'ssomething that I come home proud
of myself, I feel proud of mycampers, and that's all that you
can ask for in a career.
You know, yes, it's hard workand it can be hard at times.
You know waking up and you'relike man, like I don't know if I
want to.
You know dance and stuff for anhour today, but like you still
(24:39):
do it because you know I lovethose kids and I would do
anything for them.
I love those kids and I woulddo anything for them and I knew
that if I can have a careerwhere I get to do stuff like
that and see that progress,that's all I can ask for.
And it just felt like thatbeautiful click of that final
piece of the puzzle where I waslike, yes, this is what I want
(25:01):
to do.
And that's such a satisfyingfeeling because, like we talked
about, there's all those thingsand that come into the whole
picture of it and I am veryhappy with that decision to
decide to work there and ittruly just helped solidify that
(25:22):
decision that I wanted to do OT.
Mary (25:23):
Well, and that can branch off to on with the idea of if
there is somebody in college whoisn't quite sure, do the work
get an internship.
So I mean, a lot of majorsrequire it, but do the work test
it out, because theory in aclassroom is way different than
real life and you talked aboutthat.
(25:45):
It's really a different kind ofintimacy.
When you are working withsomebody physically, you're in
their space and you know when itis young, young kids that might
have issues where you need todo some cleanup, right it's,
it's pretty, it's prettyintimate in a different way.
So very cool that you actuallytested.
(26:08):
You tested the theory, testedthe evidence.
Here's what I think I want to do.
So it's really nice to havethat sense of being sure.
So I'm going to turn a littlebit, take a little bit of a
detour into onto a differentpath.
When you got to college I meanI think we all have an idea what
it's going to be like you knew,you liked the city itself, but
was there anything that youexperienced once you were
(26:30):
enrolled in college thatsurprised you?
Carli (26:33):
Not necessarily surprised me.
I think the culture of schooland college is something that is
different.
Like you described in yourintro, it is that whole new
realm of freedom and I never hadnecessarily strict parents, but
I was always a verywell-behaved kid.
I was never doing anythingreally out of the lines.
(26:55):
And you have this whole thingwhere it is simple, things like,
oh, I can stay up till 3 am andsleep until 1 pm and my mom's
not going to be like Hello, areyou alive?
But also those things of likedo I go to class this day?
Do I go to this party?
Do I talk with this person?
(27:16):
There's a lot of little thingsand especially during
orientation week, freshmen arekind of thrust into this.
You know huge environment andpits, a giant school for those
that don't know, and so I havelike thousands of people in just
like my class and so you dothese social things and you do
(27:37):
like the orientation stuff andyou're trying to meet your group
and everyone is just trying tomake friends.
So you know everyone's supersocial and stuff.
During those first few weeksEveryone makes their group quote
, unquote.
But what happens when thatgroup doesn't work out?
You know that was an experiencethat happened to me.
(27:57):
I had my group that I met inthat beginning of the week and
it didn't work out.
It was not the right group forme.
So I think it's just you gointo this with this idea that,
like you're going to make yourbest friends in this very first
week and they're going to be,you know, your sisters for the
rest of your life or you knowbrothers, whatever, and it's not
(28:21):
always like that.
I made friends sophomore yearand junior year and still senior
year, and it's just this ideathat, like you can't close
yourself off to new people ornew opportunities.
And that is something thatsurprised me, I think, was just
like how people found the group.
And they were just kind of likehow people found the group and
they were just kind of like theneveryone was over it and it was
(28:42):
like wait, what?
Like I don't have my group,like what are you talking about?
Type of thing.
So that was kind of a hard pillto swallow at first, I think.
Mary (28:51):
Yeah, and you strike me as pretty social, like you can
make those connections.
But that's a big hurdle for alot of college freshmen.
And again we mentioned you werein the same school district
your whole life.
So unless somebody moved in,there weren't new people to get
to know.
And if there were, you were inthe majority, right, they were
the new person.
So when you're walking into aresidence hall or a classroom or
(29:17):
a social event and they're allstrangers, that can be really
tough.
And yes, there's another,sometimes unrealistic
expectation that, oh, whoever Iconnect with, first they're
going to be my people and as youget to know them it's like not
so much.
And then you have to navigatethat right, that distancing.
(29:40):
Connecting to other peopleheaven forbid, they're a
roommate, so that's a wholeother podcast.
But yes, that can be reallychallenging because you're also
pulling together people thathave way different, diverse
backgrounds.
That again, as you mentioned,where you and even I grew up,
(30:02):
there wasn't a lot of diversity,and so that can be really cool
and refreshing, but it can alsobe a huge learning experience to
how do you connect and buildbridges between all these
different types of people.
But did you ever feel likethere were different
expectations for you as a female.
Carli (30:21):
I feel like Pitt is a very diverse school and it is
more of a liberal school for themost part.
I never really felt like a hugegap.
However, when I first read thisquestion, something that did
pop into my mind was I took acourse about two years ago and I
had this professor and he waskind of out there.
(30:42):
He was a little bit strange andyou know, that's fine, wasn't
really an issue.
So we were doing thesepresentations on some type of
social issue, cultural issue,something like that, and my
group had decided it was likebased on a book and stuff too,
or a piece of media.
And so my friend had read thispoem or this like group of poems
(31:03):
.
It was called the husbandstitch and it was basically
about like how women give birthand stuff and if they like tear
then they would be like stitchedup and stuff and it's like for
the husband.
So we were doing thispresentation on that and in the
very beginning there wastechnical issues.
For some reason the cord wasnot plugging in right, it was
not broadcasting to the littleTV thing that we were using and
(31:27):
our teacher just got super upsetwith us, like it put a whole
tone on the class where it wasjust very uncomfortable.
We could tell like he was justnot using appropriate language
and stuff with this thing.
And obviously it wasn't ourfault, like if it was our fault
and we messed up the actualpresentation, we would take
accountability for that.
But the presentation hadn'teven started and now there's
(31:47):
this whole weird tone in theroom where people are like, well
, this is awkward type of thing,so it kind of messed up our
whole presentation that we hadworked hard on.
And it made me mad because Iwas like well, we have had two
guys in this class who look likethey just spent five minutes on
their project and you didn'tseem to care at all.
But you can tell we worked hardand you're going to berate us
(32:07):
on this for a technologicalissue.
And we go back to our desksafter and my two group mates who
were two of my really closefriends at the time they were
upset and I was like, listen,like this is, this is kind of BS
.
Like pardon my French.
I was like this is ridiculous.
We didn't do anything wrong andI'm not the type of person
where I will automatically tryto stick up for myself, but I
(32:30):
saw that it upset them and I waswilling to, you know, do
something about it.
So as we're leaving, I go up tohim and I'm like, hey, I just
want to let you know that wasextremely inappropriate of you
to do.
I was like, you know, thatwasn't our fault and you saw our
presentation and you know youdid well, but it ruined it for
the rest of the class because ofhow you spoke to us in the
beginning and I was like thatwasn't okay.
(32:51):
And he tries.
He's like oh, I didn't did whatyou did and that's just what it
is.
And I walked out.
And then the next class he comesup to us and he's like I'm
really sorry and stuff like, andI was like what's too late?
Now it's too late.
And then we had to review otherpresenters and ours was the
highest rated.
So that was like always nice tohave.
(33:12):
But I was like, yeah, like youyelled at us, yeah, we had the
best one, and there's otherpeople in the class that you
know didn't do anything and youdon't seem to care.
I'm like why were you so quickto get mad at us, type of thing.
So I don't know if that's likea different expectation, but
that's just this anecdote that Ithink about.
With things like that, it'sdefinitely more quick to anger,
more quick to question as afemale for sure.
Mary (33:34):
Well, and that standing in your space and speaking that
truth, we'll say you werespeaking your truth, but
interestingly, you qualified itby saying well, it was easier
because these girls were upsetor my friends were upset, so
it's easier for you to take thatstand, maybe when there's other
people involved.
(33:55):
Do you think if it had justbeen you, if it was only your
presentation, do you think youwould have said anything?
Carli (34:01):
I don't think I would have.
Honestly, I think I would havebeen upset by it and I probably
would have called my mom andcried after, but because I saw
how much it upset them and I wasupset too, but I was able to do
it for them instead of, likeselfishly, doing it for myself.
I guess I don't know if selfishwould be the right word, but
yeah.
Mary (34:20):
Yeah, self-advocacy is what I would say.
But again, you know, there'swhere some of that socialization
comes in, that when it's justus as women, sometimes it's
easier to just go along, like goalong to get along or get along
to go along, whatever thesaying is.
But there's a lot of strength innumbers.
So, when women can support eachother, and not just in a shared
(34:45):
endeavor like what you had, butI think in life in general,
there's a lot of strength inthat, because you just set an
example and, although I don'tknow if anybody heard what you
did, it also sends a message oflook, you can actually speak
your mind even to somebody wherethere's a power differential.
(35:07):
And there I know there are many, many, not just women but guys
that would not have confronted aprofessor.
So that takes a special kind ofstrength and interestingly, you
were able to find that becauseyou were doing it for the good
of the whole instead of justyourself.
As you can see, I've pulledlike the gender thread on so
(35:29):
many things.
So was there anything that youwish you would have known or
anything that you would tellyour younger self if you could
make certain decisions overagain?
Carli (35:40):
Younger self, in the sense of even just in the
beginning of college.
I feel like I would tell myselfa lot of different things.
I mentioned that group andstuff that I first, you know,
hung out with in the beginning.
It caused my freshman year tobe truly horrible.
It caused my freshman year tobe truly horrible, like I wanted
to transfer, I hated, I hatedPitt, I was miserable and they
(36:09):
made my life a living hell.
And I often think to myself,well, if I just hadn't talked to
them at the bus stop that onetime you know we lived in the
same building, yes, but I thereare a lot of people lived in
that building that I wasn'tfriends with, you know, and I'm
like, well, if I just hadn'tdone that or hadn't done that,
you know whatever, but it taughtme lessons about friendship and
trust and everything like that,but I would have never gotten
(36:29):
if I hadn't experienced that.
So, yes, I would have loved tonot have been depressed my
freshman year.
That would have been great, butalso, you't change it.
So, if it was going to happen,I'm glad it did Because, like I
said, I now have betterfriendships and I'm stronger
than I ever would have beenwithout those things.
If I could tell really, reallyyoung me something I don't know,
(36:53):
I feel like just speak yourtruth, more like be confident in
yourself and that you are agood person and you are smart,
and you don't have to hide anyof those things for anyone,
whether it would be, you know, aboy, or for conformity or for
any reasons.
I just wish sometimes we couldjust push ourselves a little bit
(37:14):
and be like it's okay, likeyou're good as yourself.
You know you don't have toconform to all these different
things just because everyoneelse is.
Mary (37:21):
When you talk about your freshman year and saying you
hated Pitt I'm glad that yousaid that that strongly, because
I can't tell you how manyfreshmen I've had that say the
same thing and to be able tomake that decision.
Is it truly my environment or isthis truly a social issue where
(37:42):
I'm going to learn, I'm goingto get through it, I'm going to
make it and again, there'snothing wrong with transferring
from a social conflict.
You know now, right, that thatwouldn't have been the answer,
(38:03):
because even though you wantedto get away from it, it would be
a do-over.
There's always conflicts inlife and you strike me as
someone who you sort of willwade in there if you have to
right.
You're not going to see a needor see someone in distress or
see an injustice and just turnaround and be like bye.
You know you're going toactually want to address that.
(38:24):
And the other interesting pointI would make is I would see
posts along the way on socialmedia.
A lot of them were your mom's,but to me it's like oh, carly is
flourishing in every singleaspect, and so I also want
people to understand that whatthey see online is not the full
story.
Carli (38:44):
Yes, absolutely my freshman year.
I would post football games,like everything like that.
And honestly, I had a greatfall semester.
It was the spring semesterwhere all those issues were
starting to crumble around meand the only reason why I did
not transfer was because I had alease signed and I didn't want
to break that lease.
And the only reason why I didnot transfer was because I had a
lease signed and I didn't wantto break that lease and because
that would have just been toomuch hassle and issue and stuff
(39:06):
and I was like I just got tostick it out.
It was hard.
Like that first fall semesterback after, I was so anxious all
the time, I was so worried.
I was going to see them and Idid see them.
I had class with one of thegirls this past semester and you
know, I on that first day I waslike oh my God, you're, you
cannot be serious.
Like it's senior year, like I'vesomehow avoided having class
(39:28):
with them for the last threeyears, but on this last year, of
course, and but it was fine.
I was like it's fine, you know.
Like it's just, that's just howlife is.
We go to the same school.
Like it's just life you can'trun away from all of your
problems and not, you know again, transferring.
Sometimes that is the bestchoice for someone, but for me
(39:50):
I'm so glad that I stuck it outbecause you're right, if you're
running away from a socialproblem, it's just going to come
back and probably the nextschool, you know Like, if you're
not learning that lesson aboutwhat to do or what not to do in
those situations, then how willyou correct it in the future?
Mary (40:06):
Was that dynamic different with her when, now that you're
a senior and had to be kind ofin her orbit?
Carli (40:13):
I think it was because we both just kind of have this
mutual thing where it's like,basically don't look at me, I
won't look at you, we're justhere to do class.
Attendance is mandatory, we'reboth going to be here every
Monday and Wednesday, and that'sjust the way it is.
But honestly, I'm kind of gladI had it because I was like well
, I actually don't have to havea pit of despair in my stomach
(40:35):
every time I walk past them onthe street now, because it's
like you don't have that type ofcontrol over my life anymore,
you know, and that's satisfying.
Mary (40:45):
Yeah, and I think that idea of empowering yourself.
You know we easily give ourpower away when it's a situation
like that.
It's a power thing.
Bullying is about power and itsounds like there were a bunch
of them, you know, which makesit even more difficult.
But when you can stand in thatsense of power or or feel
empowered with positive thoughtsand knowing I have just as much
(41:08):
right to be here.
I have not done anything,that's sort of the path through
sometimes, even though it'sreally hard.
Okay.
Carli (41:15):
So last question If you were going to give women a top
five so important to choose yourfriends wisely, the best
(41:40):
friends that you're going tohave are going to be fun but
also be good for you, because,yes, there's strength in having
a lot of different friends, butfinding friends that are on the
same page as you helps you to beon that right path.
So it gives you a person thatyou can look to and be like.
These are our goals.
(42:01):
We're going to do it.
And kind of an underneath thingbut also a second on the list
is if someone is talking badlyabout other people in front of
you, they're other friends.
They are talking bad about youfriends.
They are talking bad about you.
If you surround yourself withpeople that are negative, that
(42:28):
are just rude to other people,that talk poorly about their
friends.
They're doing the same thing toyou.
You're not special, you don'tget a pass.
Someone's talking about theirbest friend from high school
poorly to you.
Why would they not be talkingbad about you, the girl that
they've only known for fourweeks?
My other thing would be asituation with guys is that if
you are nice to guys, they willthink that you are attracted to
(42:49):
them.
This is because in their mind,usually they will never be
outwardly nice to a woman ifthey don't find them attractive.
So you have to kind of havethat you know weird balance in
your head where you're like ifyou just compliment someone,
they're like oh my God, she's inlove with me.
It's like well, I'm actuallyjust trying to be polite,
(43:10):
because in their mind they'relike well, why would I
compliment someone that I don'twant to take home tonight?
So I feel like that issomething that has stuck with me
ever since I've seen thatlittle quote on social media.
It is always something you haveto watch.
You have to be careful becausepeople get wrong signals and if
you do like them, okay, that'sdifferent, but you have to be
careful.
(43:30):
Another list I would do would beto talk to the people in your
classes.
They are people that are likelyin the same major as you,
people in clubs, especially.
I joined like three and I endedup with one and now I'm the
president of it.
So you just keep doing the onesand you will find your groups
in those people because you allhave a mutual interest.
So try to just have just onething that you're going to
(43:54):
outside of class, whether it's asport or it is a club or an
academic thing, like somethingthat you are pushing yourself
outside of, just being in yourroom.
That is so important.
Freshman year, I feel like,especially, is do not rot in
your bedroom.
Like go out and do stuff.
Like you don't have to go outto a bar or a club or a party or
something, but like go to aclub or something, go to a
(44:16):
lecture on whatever.
Like at Pitt especially, it's ahuge school, there's always
something happening, and even atsmaller schools there's more
happening than you probablythink there are happening.
And then I don't know if it'sbeen five, but my last one would
be be proactive in advocatingfor yourself, because no one's
going to do it for you.
You are in charge of yourselfin college.
(44:37):
Your mom and dad aren't lookingover your shoulder.
You're the one that is incharge of your future.
It's great to have socialthings in college, obviously,
but you are there to get yourdegree.
So that's always just beenimportant for me, with all the
different examples we've saidduring this.
You are the person that has toadvocate for yourself.
You have to be proactive instanding up for yourself and
(44:57):
being confident and justsurrounding yourself by people
that actually bring you joy andlift you up.
Mary (45:03):
Yeah, and so you said so many things that I want to
respond to.
So the most recent what youjust said.
Of course, when working in acollege, you do hear the
frustration from parents aboutnot being able to access some
information on their students,their grades.
That is frustrating, especiallyif you're paying the bill and
(45:24):
you feel like you should knowall of that.
But I'm going to say to parentsallow your child to flounder
sometimes, because if you bailthem out with everything or you
nag them about those grades,they're not going to learn to
stand fully on their own twofeet.
You know, we know how importantgrades are right, but if you're
(45:47):
nagging and nagging, the lessondoesn't get learned.
If somebody fails a class andhas to repeat it and then they
have to pay for it or they don'tget the job they want because
their GPA is average or lowerfor certain things, you know
there are natural consequencesthat teach us the lessons and
there are many parents who wantto intervene.
(46:07):
They're really uncomfortablewith their child struggling and
I can only imagine how your momfelt your freshman year.
Knowing her, I can imagine theheartache that she carried
around knowing that you werestruggling.
But you made it and she is nota mom that's going to swoop in
in situations.
Carli (46:27):
I'm sure she listened a lot right and she was she
listened to me cry in thecafeteria on FaceTime and stuff
and she always said she wasalways supportive.
She said, you know I will comepick you up right now, type of
thing, you know.
But she also knew that iteventually was going to be okay
and I feel like it's that trustand stuff that your child will
come to you if they're trulystruggling.
(46:49):
You know, hopefully if you havethat relationship I do with my
parents, but yeah, you're rightthat nagging and stuff it just
will push them in the oppositedirection.
Mary (46:58):
And two.
I mean I think some parents arereally concerned because mental
health issues are real right.
So if someone is showing thedepression or a lot of crying or
a lot of anxiety, yes, you doneed to pay attention to that.
And I will say every collegehas a counseling center.
Not that it's easy to access it, because I'm going to tell you
(47:18):
in the middle of the semesterthere can be a wait list.
But if you're going to advocateas a parent, it would be to get
your child the supports theyneed on that campus to help them
be okay and help them to besuccessful.
The other thing you said in thebeginning about friends really
we are the reflection of thefive people closest to us.
(47:40):
So when you think about yourfriend group, or even you know
if your sister is one of those,or even your mom is one of those
five key people, what kind ofpeople are they?
Because your relationships arepredicated on who you're
surrounding yourself with.
So that's really powerful.
And the last thing I wouldrespond to a little bit is the
(48:02):
idea of the male-femaleinteraction, and I've heard from
a lot of females what you'vesaid and I will say most males
mature out of that and I don'twant to paint them all with the
same brush.
But this goes back to again thetheme of gender.
(48:22):
When you're socialized as amale versus socialized as a
female and we see what kind ofmovies, especially comedies, are
out there and what thoserelationships those I'll say
heterosexual relationships looklike, because we also want to be
very clear that that is noteveryone's preference, right.
But when we look at thoseinteractions there are a lot of
(48:44):
guys they don't know anydifferent and I'm not making an
excuse for them, but theyseriously read the signs totally
wrong and then wonder why womenkind of pull the shutters
closed, right, like they givethe cold shoulder.
So there's a lot of educationthat can go on in the college
setting for both males andfemales in navigating these
(49:06):
relationships where you need tobe clear that being friendly
does not mean I want you tospend more time with me in a
different way.
You know all of those kinds ofthings.
So you brought up some reallygood points.
So think about who you connectto.
If a relationship doesn't feelright, then it's probably not
right for you.
(49:26):
It's okay to change your path,change your major, even change
your school, but go into itrealistically, expecting that
you're going to have someconflicts with people and
building those skills.
A great way to do that isthrough the counseling center
realistically expecting thatyou're going to have some
conflicts with people andbuilding those skills.
A great way to do that isthrough the counseling center.
There are so many supports,career center, so learn what
those are.
And Carly mentioned clubs, andnot clubs like dance clubs or
(49:49):
bars, but social clubs likeDungeons and Dragons or a movie
club or outdoor club, like.
There are so many things.
If there's not something thatlights you up, then start it.
Find a faculty advisor andstart it.
So if you're choosing to go tocollege, think about what you're
going to get from the entireexperience.
(50:10):
You're getting the degree, butwhat happens between all of that
, all of that academic stuff?
That's where I think the sweetspot is.
That's where you're learningand growing.
Carli (50:23):
Absolutely.
Mary (50:24):
Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Carly.
Carli (50:28):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's just like reallyincredible to talk about.
Mary (50:33):
Yeah, it was so fun to talk to you and I told her when
she came on to the Zoom.
I'm like, oh my gosh, you lookexactly the same as when you
were 10.
So this was really fun.
This was really fun and I wantto thank all of you for
listening.
If you enjoyed today's show,please comment.
I'd love to hear your thoughtson this topic or your
suggestions for future guests ortopics, and if you'd like to
(50:55):
send comments or questionsdirectly to me, check for a link
in the show notes or find me onthe Buzzsprout app and you can
text me directly.
Even though I can't answerthose texts, I may, who knows,
mention something in one of myshows, but it's a way that if
you want to send a more privatecomment, you can do that and
also consider following my showso you don't miss a thing.
(51:16):
But for now, go out into theworld and be the amazing,
resilient, vibrant Violet thatyou are.
Hey, just a quick note before Itake you to the outro.
I created a top 10 list of whatwomen need to know before
starting college.
This can be a great resourcefor young adults and an
excellent conversation starterfor moms or dads and daughters.
(51:38):
Check the link in the shownotes for the free download.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.