Plant Wisdom: What They Teach Us About Healthy Relationships, Burnout and Resilience

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What if your path to authenticity and power lies not in human psychology, but in the ancient wisdom of plants? This conversation with Tigrilla Gardenia opens up a remarkable perspective on how reconnecting with plant intelligence can transform the way we understand ourselves and our place in the world.

Tigrilla shares her extraordinary journey from music engineering and high-tech corporate life to becoming a "plant mentor" after a life-changing encounter with a musical plant at Damanhur, one of the world's largest spiritual eco-communities. Her unique background bridges science, art, and spirituality to offer a fresh lens on human potential.

We explore how plants demonstrate "deep patterns" - consistent expressions that remain true despite changing environments - and how this concept applies to authentic human living. Tigrilla challenges the notion that we must choose a single career path, showing how multi-passionate people can express their essence through various pursuits while staying true to their nature. Just as a dandelion remains unmistakably itself whether growing through concrete or in a meadow, we too can adapt while honoring our essential nature.

The conversation takes fascinating turns through plant relationships as models for human connection, the importance of natural cycles and seasonality in countering burnout culture, and how "wild plants" (often dismissed as weeds) offer powerful lessons in resilience and authentic expression. For women especially, who are often told to stay small, these plant allies demonstrate how to take up space unapologetically.

Whether you're feeling disconnected from your purpose, struggling with societal expectations, or simply curious about deepening your relationship with the natural world, this episode offers practical wisdom for reconnecting with your true self through the intelligence of plants. 

Take Tigrilla's Spirit Wild Plant quiz  to discover which plant ally might be calling to you, and begin your own journey of plant-inspired growth.

Tigrilla's website

Mentioned in the episode: Giovanni Aloi

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Episode Transcript

Mary (00:05):
Welcome to No Shrinking Violets.
I'm your host, Mary Rothwell,licensed therapist and certified
integrative mental healthpractitioner.
I've created a space where wecelebrate the intuition and
power of women who want to breakfree from limiting narratives.
We'll explore all realms ofwellness, what it means to take
up space unapologetically, andhow your essential nature is key

(00:28):
to living life on your terms.
It's time to own your space,trust your nature and flourish.
Let's dive in.
Hey, violets, welcome to theshow.
Before I jump in, in case youhaven't heard, no Shrinking
Violets now has Monday miniepisodes just me, no guest,

(00:49):
giving bite-sized reflections onlife hacks designed to meet you
right where you are.
Each one offers a simple ideato help you shift your thinking,
tap into your resilience andlive just a bit more rooted and
aligned.
Follow the show so you don'tmiss any of my episodes.
Okay, speaking of rooted, I amso excited to talk to my guest

(01:13):
today.
Up until we connected about theshow, I was the biggest nature
geek I knew.
I think that's about to change.
If you've ever listened to mebefore, you know I love plants
and I truly believe they cangive us guidance to help each of
us tap into our own uniqueessential nature.
I have learned so many lessonsfrom plants myself over the past
20 plus years, both as a mastergardener and as a home gardener

(01:35):
who has planted probably over1,000 perennials on all the
different properties where I'velived that is not an
exaggeration and from my timeboth in my garden and hiking in
different parts of the countryI've lived that is not an
exaggeration and from my timeboth in my garden and hiking in
different parts of the country,I've witnessed both the
resilience and the adaptability,community and ecological value
that plants bring to the world,and I often use plant narratives

(01:57):
to help my clients connect totheir own life situations.
I think they provide greatexamples of learning to survive
in less than optimal situations,finding the nutrients they need
through their unique rootsystems and sharing their gifts
with the pollinators, not onlyto further their species but to
support and sustain otherspecies.
Like humans, people do allthose things as part of building

(02:20):
their own healthy relationships.
We draw in nutrients frompeople, activities and food.
We adapt when we havechallenges and we connect to
others in a symbiotic way to getsupport and give support.
If you've ever heard of thehormone oxytocin, you know that
we are literally chemicallypredisposed to create community,
and plants are, too.

(02:41):
My guest today.
Tigrili Gardenia has aspiritual connection to plants
and although I can honestly saythat I never feel more grounded
and utterly content than whenI'm among plants, I think
Tigrilla takes this to a wholenew level.
So let me introduce her so wecan all learn more about the
amazingness of nature and how wecan connect to that to elevate

(03:03):
our own consciousness.
Tigrilla Gardenia is anature-inspired mentor,
certified life coach and worldambassador for plant advocacy.
She empowers people to liveauthentic, purpose-driven lives
in collaboration with the plantworld.
A citizen of Damanhur, one ofthe world's largest spiritual

(03:24):
eco-communities of Damanhur oneof the world's largest spiritual
eco-communities, tigriya'sjourney into plant wisdom began
with a life-changing encounterwith a musical plant and yes,
we're going to ask her aboutthat.
Always eager to learn, shestudied with some of the
greatest minds in bio-inspiredsciences, gaining a master's
degree in futuro vegetale I hopeI said that right which is

(03:44):
Vegetal, Future Plants, socialInnovation and Design at the
University of Florence.
Finally, tigrilla is the host ofthe podcast Reconnect with
Plant Wisdom, where she sharesancient and modern knowledge,
from biology to spirituality,exploring the wondrous ways
plants help us lead a naturallyconscious life.
And let me just say I don'tfollow many podcasts because

(04:07):
listening to them is part of mypreparation for guests.
They got to be prettycompelling.
However, after hearing justfive minutes of her podcast, I
hit follow.
It literally touched a chorddeep inside of me.
So I'm so happy to welcome youto no Shrinking, violet Segrella
.

Tigrilla (04:24):
Thank you so much.
What a beautiful and humblingintroduction.

Mary (04:28):
Oh, you're welcome.
You're welcome, okay.
So I'm guessing that if some ofyour vocation is a newer idea
for me, my listeners will need abit of a foundation for our
talk today.
So could you give us an idea ofyour life journey and how that
path got you to where you aretoday?

Tigrilla (04:48):
Oh, my life journey.
Where should I start?
So I'll try to give you thedetailed and highlighted version
, without going too much intothe details so that we don't sit
here for three hours.
I have a very eclecticbackground and that's the reason
why I say it.
So I know, notwithstanding thefact that I live in Italy and I

(05:10):
am an Italian citizen, I'm alsoan American citizen.
So, as you can tell from myaccent, I was born and raised in
Miami and we're really NorthCuba because I'm Cuban, so it's
really North Cuba, and so myoriginal degree actually was in
music engineering and electricalengineering.
Music has always been a verycore essence, very, very deep

(05:33):
part of myself, and I work veryclosely with the arts in general
.
And when I finished that, Iended up kind of being whisked
off to Seattle to go work in thehigh tech world.
At the time, music and audiocoming onto the internet was
kind of like a craze.
It wasn't like it is today.
We were just we are where thefoundation that made it possible

(05:55):
for all the things that we seetoday in audio and video online.
And then eventually I leftthere, the company I was working
with, and ended up at Microsoftand spent years in Microsoft.
Throughout the course of that Istarted to the company I was
working with and ended up atMicrosoft and spent years in
Microsoft.
Throughout the course of that Istarted to again missing that
part of the arts and that partof the music world, not just in
the technology but also in thetraditional sort of arts.

(06:15):
I ended up kind of going backinto acting and doing theater
and things of this nature, andso I eventually left Microsoft
and actually founded an eventproduction company.
I was producing large events,mostly dance parties, and ended
up co-owning a circus and washaving all this kind of just
really bringing my experiencesinto this focus of how is it

(06:41):
that I help people createtransformational moments,
moments where they feel safe andsecure to be able to allow
themselves to try something new?
And this led me also on myspiritual journey.
I started to, I was initiatedinto a mystery school and I
started to really experience theKabbalah and other aspects that
I eventually went on to teach.
So here I am kind of likeproducing events, teaching and

(07:05):
doing all these things, and Iended up my partner at the time
really wanted to go on tour withCirque du Soleil we had met in
my circus.
He was a tech, and so we endedup getting a job and moving to
Europe, and so that's how Iended up in Europe and after I
came off tour, I decided to.
I was kind of still producingevents and I ended up in

(07:26):
Barcelona after wandering aroundfor a year or so and decided
that I wanted to really staythere and I wanted to focus on
building out you know myspiritual practice and you know,
again, teaching and such likethat was coming through town
ended up saying, hey, why don'twe go to Italy and go check out
this place, dom and her we keephearing about which was, you

(07:47):
know, for us inconceivable theidea of a spiritual community
that had built temples and wewere like, all right, let's head
out and do that.
So I came here and I met somepeople and they actually invited
me to come and work on aproject, which is something that
was not done at the time.
Nobody, nobody was really inlike we've always had lots of
people that come here, butnobody that was invited to say,

(08:07):
hey, please, please, work onthis project with us.
And I thought, okay, six months, I'll work on the project, I'll
get it set off, I'll kick itoff and then I'll leave.
Yeah Well, that was almost 15years ago and I'm still sitting
here, so so that's kind of how Iended up in Italy.
And then, when I was here, I,you know again, I told you music
is my background.
Music and engineering are kindof two pieces that are really

(08:28):
fundamental to my life.
And so I I heard this musicwhen I was walking down a hall
and ended up kind of followingthe music, because it was really
strange music, it wasn't likeanything I'd heard before and
ended up at a box, connected toa speaker, connected to a plant.
Wow, and you're kind of likewhat the heck is this?

(08:48):
But as I'm listening to it, I'mstaring.
So my engineering mind isstaring at the box and my like
languagey music mind is staringat the plant going, are you
talking to me?
And the plant was basicallythrough the music, saying yeah,

(09:13):
I'm talking to you.
And I was just like, so thatgot me.
It kind of was my plantreawakening, the thing that kind
of opened me up to realize, oh,my goodness, you're not just
this alive in the quoted sort ofway, but you're alive like in
the.
I have an idea and thoughts andother stuff that's happening
inside of this, you know,sessile green body, and I just
came down, you know, fell downthe rabbit hole.

(09:34):
I was working on variousprojects for Damanhur.
To begin with, I got moved overto the project of the music of
the plants, which was a devicethat was there and just went
head heads down into everything.
I could get my hands on all ofthe understanding from a
scientific perspective, becauseI had always loved science and
biology and really getting intowho is a plant, what is a plant,

(09:56):
and then what is plantneurobiology?
What does it mean?
Are plants sentient?
What are the discussions andthe arguments that are happening
in there?
And at the same time, I had thismusical side which was like oh
yes, I can understand you inthis way, the whole idea of the
fact that the base for humanbeings is musicality.

(10:16):
We really interpret the wordthrough the world, through
melody, through an understandingof this rhythm, of all these
pieces, and that's how languageis actually built, it's built on
, is actually built, it's builton a musicality.
So this music kind of allowedplants to kind of create a
language from there of which Icould easily understood, and it
started to make me realize whoplants were, so that, therefore,

(10:38):
I could kind of come into a newlevel of understanding of
myself, right, all these partsof myself that I had never
thought about and that mixedbeautifully with my spiritual
background, because beingsomebody who was a Kabbalah
teacher, who had worked veryclosely with different elements
of the kind of plant spiritworld, which kind of had this

(10:58):
other aspect on top of thebiology, right.
So now you have the biology,you have the creativity and you
have the subtle world that'ssitting on top of the biology,
right.
So now you have the biology,you have the creativity and you
have the subtle world that'ssitting on top of it, and all
three of this for me, just kindof came together and made it
really clear Okay, I now seelife, I now see where I'm
supposed to be headed.

Mary (11:18):
Yeah, oh, wow, there's 3000 threads.
I want to pull out of that.
Wow, there's 3,000 threads.
I want to pull out of that.
Well, the one thing.
So I worked with collegestudents for a long time and the
campus where I was I worked ata Penn State campus we had a lot
of engineering majors, and so Iknow electrical engineering is
one of the most difficult, ohgosh.

(11:38):
Yes, I think we also have thisidea that once we choose a path,
it has to be lucrative.
It's linear, and what you justillustrated is one of the best
things about doing this podcastwith guests, and I say this all
the time that you start, you setyour foot on a path and you

(11:59):
think you can see where it'sgoing, but you've just you sort
of followed these opportunitiesalong the way and you're in such
a different place than you everimagined you could be.

Tigrilla (12:12):
Absolutely, and that's exactly why I focus my and this
is where, kind of coming fullcircle to what you just said, I
work mainly withmulti-potentialites,
multi-passionate people, peoplewho have lots of different ideas
and interests and passions thatthey have.
You know different careers,different ways of expressing
themselves that they'veexperienced, and most of these

(12:33):
are told for exactly the reasonsthat you talked about.
You know, focus on one, or atleast focus on one at a time.
And the plants really helped meunderstand what it means to be
a living ecosystem and how it'snot so much which passion you
use in biomimicry, which is aform of design, whether we're
designing projects and productsor social innovations, where we

(12:58):
mimic nature, we look atbio-inspiration of how is it
that elements of nature, beingsof nature, do things and then
how can then we apply that tothe projects that we're working
on.
And when it comes to socialinnovation in particular, we
look at what's called a deeppattern.
We look at the expression thata given organism continuously

(13:18):
does, whether we're talkingabout swarms of birds, schools
of fish.
All of these movements are adeep pattern that have a very
set, a set of simple rules, andif those organisms carry out
those simple rules, then thosebehaviors, that pattern emerges
and that is the natural state ofthose beings.
And we have a principle that'svery, very but basically the

(13:41):
same thing, but in an esotericform, which is connected to your
base archetype, the idea thatmy soul has an archetype, which
is how I express myself in everylife that I live.
But yet I have all thesedifferent personalities, which
are the same in biomimicry,looking at all the different
kind of expressions of the deeppattern.
But if I follow the simplerules, my trueness, my true,

(14:05):
authentic self comes through.
And most people confuse that,thinking that those rules or
that that expression has to bethe thing you do.
But it's not the thing you do,it's the how you do it.
That is the same and that's thething that you constantly
express.
So it doesn't matter if I'mdoing circus arts or if I'm
sitting around, you know,designing a condenser microphone
, or if I'm doing circus arts,or if I'm sitting around

(14:26):
designing a condenser microphone, or if I'm with a group of
people and we're having a superin-depth philosophical
conversation, or if I'm doing aclass on Kabbalah.
The truth of the matter is thatanybody who knows me and who's
watched me throughout any ofthose years will see that, even
though each one of these givesme different input points and
different pieces that I can playwith for metaphors, for

(14:48):
expression, for such, the thingthat gets expressed, for me and
what you could say, what itaccomplishes, is always the same
, because that's my deep pattern, and so it's not so much about
finding what it is that you do,but it's how do you do it.
So then you could takeadvantage of every single idea
finding what it is that you do,but it's how do you do it.
So then you could takeadvantage of every single idea,
thought, passion that you mighthave in order to express

(15:11):
yourself completely.

Mary (15:12):
Yeah Well, so you fleshed out an idea I talk about often
and before I go to that, I'mgoing to say as a therapist you
must have amazing neuralpathways because you have so
many things that connect in yourbrain, which is tremendous.
I talk about essential natureand it's very spare compared to

(15:35):
the lushness of what you justdescribed.
So I see in my work that Ibelieve that we all know what we
need, but it gets buried.
It gets buried by the world.
And you know, I think when Iwas a kid I instinctively went
to the forest, like that's whereI played.
In the forest.
I gravitated to plants from whenI was very young and I think as

(16:00):
we get older I thought about,oh, I want to be in floriculture
or horticulture.
And then it started to be like,well, how would I make money at
that, or what's the?
You know?
And I think we shut, we're shutdown by things like that.
And I think in the world today,when I talk to people about
essential nature, it's reallynature.
And nurture it's really what'sour natural, as you're talking

(16:21):
about what's inside our naturalway of being.
But then I think too, with alot of my clients they've gotten
the nurture part becausegrowing up they had to adapt.
So, again, we can think aboutplants.
When they're in a stressedsituation, they're going to do
their best to grow towards thelight, get the nutrients they
need.
That's what we all do as beings, and I think when they end up

(16:46):
in front of me in my office,those things don't work anymore.
Either their climate is wrongand I started to.
I have a book that's comingaround I'm kind of putting it
together called Live Like aPlant, and it touches on all of
these eight things about aplant's way they live, things

(17:08):
about a plant's way they live,and so that idea of connecting
inside to what you really wantand then looking at how has the
environment shaped you and howcan you start to go from
surviving to thriving.
So, with having said all that,with social media and all of
this loud, fast stuff that is, Ithink, is confusing and
overwhelming, how do you helppeople get back to sort of that

(17:29):
inner plantness or like that,what you're talking about, who
you really are and how to thrivewith that?

Tigrilla (17:36):
And that's a great question and I'm going to give
you an answer that's probablycounterintuitive, because this
is probably one of going back tothat whole authenticity, right,
um, the biggest problem withall the conditioning that we
have is that most conditioningis intended to kind of make
everybody fit into a box, right,society has a set of rules and

(17:57):
norms and all these differentaspects, and we've forgotten an
essential step in there whichsays so I think I'm supposed to
condition, to adapt extremelythe way I think to whatever it
is that the output is.
And if you look at an ecosystem, right, in an ecosystem nothing
is wasted, everything is used.

(18:18):
So when I think about it fromthat perspective, I think both
my ecosystem has to then engagewith the greater ecosystem.
That could be my work, mysociety, my family, my anything
that's around me.
But there's always, in betweentwo ecosystems, an ecotone, and
an ecotone is that division,that space that slowly,

(18:41):
gradually moves out of oneecosystem and into the other,
and in there you actually havethe most amount of innovation,
you have the most amount ofmovement and flurry, because of
course, one thing is coming outand it has to somehow adapt
itself into something else, oryou have two different
ecosystems that are justblending in there, and so
everything in there kind of getsthe best of both worlds.

(19:02):
We sort of have to think ofourselves in that way, which
means I could take in all themost massive amount of input as
possible, right?
But what's most important isthat within my ecosystem, I have
to learn how to process it myway.
I have to give myself fullpermission to design systems and

(19:24):
ways of looking at things.
That is not based on whatanybody else needs.
But to get back to this essenceof who it is that I am and be
totally comfortable with thefact that I don't know, I do
math backwards or you know, Ihave, you know, 75 different
systems for tracking what I'mdoing in a given day, or I do

(19:45):
things in 10 minute chunksbecause that's all I can do and
stuff.
It doesn't matter how you do itwhen you're inside of your
ecosystem.
What's important is I do it myway, my ecosystem, and then I
use that ecotone to test what isit about my system, the output
of my system, so not in thiscase again, how I do it, but

(20:06):
what I'm producing from it andhow do I blend that into so that
by the time it hits the otherecosystem which could be again a
friend, my work environment orwhatever it's given to them in
the way that is necessary.
So, in other words, I processit my way and then I test not
how I process it, because that'snot your problem, you don't

(20:27):
need to think how I think but Itest.
Okay, if I'm supposed to givesomebody something blue and in
my world this is blue but then,as I start to test it out, they
tell me hey, stop giving meorange.
Then I'm like okay, so that'sorange.
So they call that orange.
For me it's blue, but they callit orange.
Great, okay, let me give youother things and let me test.

(20:47):
Now I'm still going to make mycolor mixes, however, the heck,
I mix my colors, but I'm goingto then adapt the output for you
.
Sometimes, though, in thatcrunch, I could say hey, are you
sure you really need that color?
Because to me this is blue.
Can we have a discussion aboutit?

(21:12):
So, in part, it's getting socomfortable with who I am and
how I process things that I canone ask for what I need and
negotiate, because in allnatural settings there is
something that's happening,there's a relationship that's
being built and also, whennecessary, adopt my output to
match what you need, but notnecessarily change how it is
that I get to that output.
Hopefully that makes sense.

Mary (21:29):
I think it does.
Let me try to reframe it andsee if this, because I'll put it
into just gardening.
So I've lived in differentproperties and sometimes I've
been lucky enough to have thechance to dig some plants up and
bring them with me, and to mewhere I'm putting them in the
new property seems pretty muchthe same, but they act very

(21:52):
differently.
So it's sort of like they knowwhere they feel the most
comfortable, where they thrive.
But we can't always have thatLike.
We've gotten probably 12 inchesof rain here in the last three
weeks, so that's very unusual.
So then now the plants to meare sort of like okay, how are
we going to adapt to this?
Because this is not our usualwhat we prefer.

(22:15):
So they're adapting.

Tigrilla (22:17):
It doesn't change their plantness or what they
prefer, but they're learning tosurvive in a different situation
, which and they're learning howto express themselves because,
like you said, that plant is notgoing to change the plant, so
I'm still going to bloom, I'mstill going to do all these
things.
Now I could give you a messageand say, hey, what you're asking

(22:39):
me as a plant, but also as ahuman being, is too far outside.
So if that water is too much toa point where I can't take it
in I've tried everything or myweather conditions are so
different, it's too cold, Ican't you might have a die off.
That is a signal to you thatsays, look, this just isn't
going to be.
And I think we need to get muchmore comfortable with the idea

(23:00):
that not everything has to be aperfect fit and not everything
is a fit at all.
Sometimes it's just not goingto work, especially if you have
only in the case of a plant, ifit's only one side that is
adapting, then you also have theright to say this isn't going
to work for me, because weactually need to adapt both,
maybe, instead of putting themin.

(23:21):
You know an area where thewater constantly hits there is,
you know, a partial kind ofcover that can be done because
you also, as being the one onthe other side can recognize.
Okay, there's changes, that tobe made, but what's most
important is that that plant isalways going to express that
plantness, whether it's the wayI flower or the way the shape of
my leaves.
I can make slight changes, butI'm still that plant, so that

(23:43):
I'm recognized.
And so I think this is a reallyimportant aspect for us as
human beings is, most of thetime conditioning happens and
allows to happen at such anextreme level because we don't
really know who we are.
And another aspect that I workwith with my clients is getting
them, in different ways, to feelreally comfortable with testing

(24:03):
, even in the most mundanethings, who you truly are.
An example that I often usewhich I know is kind of silly
and probably, you know, for somepeople makes no sense until you
sit with it.
I promise it does is like theway I go to the bathroom, and I
use it because it's innocuous.
Right, it's not, it's notsomething that's like
controversial or anything likethat, but I probably go to the

(24:26):
bathroom the way my parentstaught me how to go to the
bathroom.
Whether I stand, whether I sit,whether I hover, go to the
bathroom the way my parentstaught me how to go to the
bathroom, whether I stand,whether I sit, whether I hover,
whether I lean forward, whetherI lean back.
It was probably something thatwas either given to me by my
parents completely, or at leastformed in the time that I was
young, when I had a body of acertain type.
I'm an adult, I'm an adultwoman.
Right now, my body is not thesame as when it was, when I was

(24:47):
three years old or two years oldor one year old, when I learned
how to use the bathroom, and sotherefore, I should constantly,
as my body changes, modify andplay with, at a minimum, how I
go to the bathroom.
Do I lean a little forward, doI lean a little back?
Do I raise my legs, do I sit,even at all?
All these types of things.
Until I get so comfortable withknowing my body that I ensure I

(25:09):
don't hurt my back, my bowelsare in the best position, I can
really release everything thatis necessary.
We don't do that in areas of ourlives.
We take in whatever it is thatwe've been told is morally
correct or the social norm orall these types of things, but a
plant would never do thatBecause, as you said, when I get
moved into a differentenvironment or when a plant

(25:30):
grows a little bit bigger, theyhave to test their environment,
like, okay, I'm bigger, but mypot is smaller, so let me see
Can I go over it, can I go underit?
Let me play around and stretchand see.
Is there more sunlight where Iam?
Am I crowding myself?
Is somebody else crowding me?
They have tons of sensors thatallow them to take in large

(25:51):
amounts of input and this is thepart that's counterintuitive
and then assimilate that andstill stay true to themselves.
And so another piece of this isthat we don't really allow
ourselves to take things infully and then consciously
choose the path we're going totake with it.
We instead take a lot forgranted that, if my mother

(26:14):
taught me that I'm supposed to Idon't know say hello when I see
somebody on the street, I'msupposed to do that always,
instead of knowing that.
Okay, if I'm in this town, I sayhello on the street.
If I'm in this other town, inthis other country, I look down
because it's impolite to look atsomebody in the street.
If I'm in this other town, inthis other country, I look down
because it's impolite to look atsomebody in the eyes.
If I'm in this town, I smilebecause that's the way that

(26:35):
their norm is, and in this townover here, instead, I don't
smile because that's considerednot worthy.
So we don't give ourselves thatspace to get to understand and
the difference between all ofthat, which is, how do I like to
greet people, like, do I wantto be somebody who's walking
down the street smiling andhaving fun, and when do I do it?
And so finding that balance sothat I'm not insulted when

(26:57):
somebody maybe doesn't smileback at me.
I know the difference between acultural norm that's happening
over there Okay, that person'snot smiling at me because,
culturally speaking, this placedoesn't smile.
That doesn't change that Ican't smile because that's who I
am.

Mary (27:11):
Yeah, yeah, and so one of the examples I've used very
simple with that is when there'sa plant that needs more light
and it leans away from the otherplants, the other plants aren't
upset about that, they're likethat plant's just doing what it
needs, and so I think that'sreally a great example of
walking this line between.

(27:32):
This is who I am, this is theessence of me, but I'm in a
situation where it's in withfungi and all kinds of things
under the soil that connectseven different species and helps
them to thrive.
So when you're talking aboutmore intimate relationships,

(28:04):
friendships or like even apartner situation, how would you
apply this?
You talked about it a littlebit, but is there anything else,
when people are trying to putthis frame on it, that you would
offer for them?

Tigrilla (28:16):
Yeah, a big thing.
So I'll add a biological aswell as a philosophical .
So, philosophy is that thereare a series of missing
archetypes that we have as humanbeings.
We've lost certain archetypes,specifically around 20
archetypes, and these 20archetypes are all connected to
relationships, relationships ofall sorts, giving a much broader

(28:38):
definition than the definitionsthat we hold today as human
beings.
And we believe that the plants,the plant world specifically,
is holding these archetypes forus.
They know that we as humanshave kind of lost touch with
them.
They know that we as humansaren't necessarily always ready
to reconnect with them.
So they hold that memory untilwe're able to.

(29:00):
And then, taking it into thebiological, you can look and see
, okay, well, how is it thatplants are expressing these
relationships?
And here is where I think itreally opens up a big area for
us as human beings, because ourhuman understanding of
relationships is very limited.
We look at things like you know, like you said, family

(29:20):
relationships, maybe friendshiprelationships.
We have a lot of definitionsand conditioning around
relationships, like if theytreat you this way, that's bad,
and if they do this, that's good.
And again, it's not based onwhat's good or bad for me it's
just based on it is that way,and that's probably the
difference between aconditioning versus something
that you yourself have adoptedwhether it is the same thing as

(29:44):
what society tells you, butyou've adopted it for yourself
because you've experimented withit.
So one of the things that Itake my clients through, for
example, is just experiment whenthey have these types of
situations, is experimentingwith the idea of some of the
even most well known of plantrelationships and understanding
what those really mean and howthey show up in your own life.

(30:05):
That maybe you're giving aconnotation to or giving a
definition to, that in realityis not necessarily based on what
the relationship is, but theway you're experiencing that
relationship.
For example, sure, everybodywants to talk about mutualisms
right, the idea of win-winsituations where both people are
getting a positive benefit.

(30:26):
But there are, in nature, very,very long term relationships
that are commensalisms.
One of the organisms is gettinga super positive boost from it
and the other one is neutral,and there's nothing wrong with
that relationship.
That relationship can be usefulto the overarching environment
and to actually even bothspecies.

(30:46):
One of them might havesomething extra to give and
therefore it doesn't cost youanything to give it away,
there's no loss really, becauseI'm able to just do it, and the
other one is getting a benefitbecause I maybe can't produce
that.
So where is it in your lifethat you might have a
relationship where you're notgetting anything out of it and
the other person is, but thatperson's not using you?

(31:07):
It's better for the overallecosystem of your life, and so
if you take a look back and youlook at a bigger picture of
what's better for the ecosystem,how does that work out?
Or even something likepredation, or you know, the
predation in the perspective ofone of them is actually losing,
so I'm actually having adepleting act when the other one

(31:27):
is getting a gain, which thetruth of the matter is.
We all have a parasitic, inparticular relationship all of
our lives.
Most people not everybody, mostpeople have a parasitic
relationship which is called theparent-child relationship.
Right, the child is a parasiteto the parent, but the parent,
even though they're having like,it's taking their energy, it's

(31:49):
taking their money, it's takingtheir time, it's taking all
these types of things, but theoverall ecosystem of the life,
which in this case would be thefamily and your benefits to
society overall, contains it.
And so therefore, even thoughthere's one that is taking more
and the other one that is givingmore, and so you don't have
that situation where there's anegative connotation, but when

(32:11):
we see this outside of theparent-child relationship, we
oftentimes try to label it asbad.
Is it really bad?
Or is it just that it's not,you know, is it just something
that we've societally normed inthat way and therefore, you know
you have to ask yourselfquestions.
So for relationships, it'sreally helpful to kind of take a
step back and look at one.

(32:32):
What is this relationship forreal, like, not emotionally
speaking, for a second, firstand foremost just to understand
it.
And then two if I'm looking atit from the perspective of
nature, what are kind of some ofthe guidelines that nature
shows me and helps me understand?
For example, competition innature does happen, for sure it

(32:54):
happens, but it's not continuous.
It has to have a temporarystatus, because if it's
continuous, because both areactually competing and therefore
draining each other, they willeventually kill each other.
It's just kind of a norm, andso therefore it has to have a
purpose.
Competition is selective, it'svery narrow in scope and it

(33:17):
lasts for a determined period oftime, and so you could have
competitive relationships, evenin your life, if they follow
those norms.
And then you look at yourselfand you're like, okay, is this
competition have thesecharacteristics?
And is this competition havethese characteristics?
And then, is it better for myoverall ecosystem?
Does this a kind of competitionthat boosts me for a second?

(33:38):
Whether I win or lose doesn'tmatter, but it boosts me and,
like it, helps me learnsomething new, it helps me have
an experience.
And then I step out of it and Ireshift that relationship into
something else.
Whether that be a commensalismOkay, I lost, so you're going to
take from me, but that lossdoesn't really hurt me or does
it turn into something else.

(33:58):
And so if we start to look atrelationships with these kind of
natural lenses, it helps uskind of look at it from the
perspective of okay, this couldbe good, this could be useful at
a minimum and I'm going tostart to look at things a little
bit more expansively of, yes,how does it make me feel?

(34:18):
But is that making me feelbecause of the relationship
itself or because some societalconstruct has taught me that
it's that?
And if I take that definitionout and then I look at it from
the perspective of my overallecosystem, then is it really
have that same?
Because if it does, then I gotto do something to change it.
But if it doesn't, how do Ithen live that in the best way

(34:43):
possible and adapt it in orderfor it to be something that's
useful to me or useful to theoverall ecosystem?

Mary (34:50):
Yeah, that's a great frame because it does take out that
idea of something is supposed tobe a certain way.
It should be this way or itshouldn't be this way.
And things are also cyclical.
If we think about plants, thereare times in the seasons of one
year where they have thepollinators and the bees are

(35:12):
helping them, and you know, Ithink our relationships do
change over time.
So I think that's important torecognize too, because parents
do get they get overwhelmed thatyou know it shouldn't be this
hard, or my kids should be readyby now to do X, y or Z.
But sometimes those things takea little bit of time, but

(35:33):
there's a season for it.

Tigrilla (35:35):
Absolutely.
And the seasonality is anotherbig element that I often you
know that I talk about all thetime, which is we forget we're
seasonal.
And especially right now, inthe sort of disconnected,
non-nature connected world thatwe live in, it is very easy for
us to forget our seasonality andtherefore think that you're

(35:55):
supposed to go, go, go all thetime.
You know, I go to thesupermarket and I don't have a
relationship with my food.
Therefore, I think I'm supposedto be able to get bananas all
year round, or I'm supposed toget whatever it might be of
produce or food or any time, andin reality what it's done is
it's created a false myth thatwe're supposed to be on all the

(36:16):
time.
I met up with this wonderfulthere's a wonderful scholar by
the name of Giovanni Allui, whoI love very much.
His specialization is plants asagents in the art world, and
how is it that plants displaytheir agency in the artistic
world and in the world of design?
He's fascinating and I was justwith him in Milan a few months

(36:41):
ago and we were having a reallygreat conversation because he
was doing a talk aboutartificial intelligence
specifically around plants, andhe was talking about how the
proliferation right now of theseimages of these unnatural
plants and what is it thatthey're doing and what is
another foundation that they'relaying that we don't even

(37:02):
recognize?
And one of the aspects that wegot into that was kind of like
an aha moment for both of us wasthis fact that, without that
seasonality in other words,these blooms that you're seeing
in pictures all over the placethat are always blooming they're
always blooming, besides thefact that they're unnatural in
their size and in their colorand in that way that they grow
but just the fact that they'realways blooming is reinforcing

(37:25):
the cultural myth that we shouldalways be blooming, that we
don't have seasonal cycles, thatwe don't have seasonal cycles,
that we don't have moments wherewe're supposed to like down and
take more time for rest.
When is the times for us to findour introspection, when is the
time for us to be insteadproducing?
And this changes based onmyself as well as my location.

(37:46):
You know, I still, even thoughI live in another country, I
have a somewhat tropicalconstitution.
In other words, my bodynaturally needs siesta in the
middle of the day because I comefrom a tropical environment,
that it gets so hot and that youcan't really think so right

(38:06):
after lunch to, about, you know,evening, my mind doesn't work.
It's very malleable, it'ssomething that is.
It's in much more of a kind ofphilosophical type mode.
I don't do strategy work at thattime.
I usually actually work withclients because it's my best,
most curious time, because I'mjust so open, because I'm so

(38:27):
relaxed and, you know, my bodythinks it's supposed to be hot,
and it's for sitting around andchatting with people, it's for
having those kind of like let mesit there and just get to know
you type of times, becausethat's how we use that time.
And so therefore, it's my timewhen I schedule for certain
kinds of classes, mainly likediscussion type classes.
If I'm teaching, teaching, I'lldo that later on in the evening

(38:50):
.
But if I'm doing, you know,this type of conversation mode,
I love doing it in the afternoonbecause I'm much more open, and
these types of pieces where Ido all my strategy work in the
mornings, that's when my mind isalert for that.
And so it took me a long time,and I, you know, to really get
into this cyclical andunderstand my own cycles, which

(39:11):
of course changed throughout thecourse of the year.
Right, there are times when I'mjust much more productive.
There are times when, instead,I'm more introspective and all
these types of pieces, and it'sreally important for us to give
ourselves that space toexperiment with that, for
ourselves, to learn who we trulyare in different parts of the
year, and this is why having acoach like me is so useful, or

(39:32):
having somebody who is there tohold that space, to hold your
hand and to help you also see,because sometimes when you're in
it, it's really hard for you tosee what's going on and so
really just someone who's therewho gives you that space and
says let's talk about you knowyour rhythm throughout the
course of the last two months,or who can bring up, hey, let's
talk about you know your rhythmthroughout the course of the
last two months, or who canbring up, hey, it's interesting.

(39:53):
We've been working together nowfor a while and I noticed that
in the springtime you always dothis, this kind of you know,
kind of circular thinking orwhatever worries that you're
having comes up usually aroundthe spring.
Let's look at it as a springthing.
Okay, what are the elements ofyour spring, based on you and
your way of cycles that actuallybrings this up in a constant

(40:13):
basis that we can kind of seewhere it is then how it is that
we want to address it.

Mary (40:19):
Well, so two things occur to me as you're talking through
all of those things, and one youmentioned blooming, and I think
it comes down to, a lot oftimes, this comparison, because
now, with social media, wealways have a point of
comparison anytime we open ourfeed or whatever.
So I think about the corpseflower, and the corpse flower

(40:40):
blooms maybe once every sevenyears or 12 years, and it's
amazing, people come fromeverywhere to see this.
And then there are other plantswhere they'll bloom.
Some of my plants will bloomthe entire summer.
They're just different plants.
So I think sometimes, if wewill compare ourselves, well, I
only wrote one book and thisother person wrote five.

(41:02):
Or I only raised one child andmy friend has three and seems to
be doing just fine, but I don'treally want three, and so I
think that idea of blooming askind of thinking about what are
we putting into the world,that's also based on who we are
and the flavor of what we decideto do.
We don't have to compare thatto somebody else's blooming,

(41:24):
because we're unique.
And the other thing you broughtup that I talk about all the
time is the cycle of rest, andwe think I'm going to push
through this, I shouldn't haveto rest.
Or I'm looking at Susie overthere and she seems to be able
to power through her day, andthen she's going out at nine
o'clock at night.
And I think it's that idea of,if we think about bulbs, so

(41:45):
tulips or daffodils, they'llbloom for a few weeks and then
they go dormant until nextspring.
We just appreciate that they'vedone that, but they have to
recharge.
Or in the winter here all theleaves fall off the trees and we
don't think, oh my God, look atthose trees, they're so lazy
because they're just droppingtheir leaves.

(42:06):
And these are cycles thatobviously the plants just know.
It's in their literal DNA.
So that's, I think, an ideawhere, when we feel tired,
instead of just honoring what weneed, we then look at the other
person like well, she's notresting, so or I'll just push

(42:27):
through this instead oflistening to our bodies.

Tigrilla (42:30):
Right, right, I think you said it well when you said
it's in our DNA, in the sense ofthe plants, it's in their DNA.
It's also within our DNA and Ithink that that's the hardest
part for us to understandbecause, again, we tend to look
at ourselves, because Homosapiens are all one species.
We try to look at ourselves inbulk, but even that is only

(42:52):
because we don't allow ourselvesto differentiate and
individuate.
I mean, we have held back ourevolution in so many different
ways.
Every single time a child isborn or an adult gets something
that changes the way that theyare fundamentally in a plant, we
would be like, oh wow, you justput out blue blooms and you're
normally a white blooming plant.
Amazing, right.
We would think of it withcuriosity, with amazement, and

(43:15):
wonder If a human being didsomething similar, then all of
us, if somebody, if I was all ofa sudden born with my hair in
this color, I would most likelybe looking for the gene to
eradicate it.
Because human beings don'tallow themselves to evolve, we
truncate ourselves and we labeleverything as disease.
Everything that is outside ofthe norms, that is disease, and

(43:37):
we don't think about it from theperspective of wow, what if my
best evolution is that thing,because if I am and if my hair
is this color, it's kind of likethe whole Wicked story, right?
Or the Wizard of Oz story.
Elphaba is green, so what?
Maybe that's the best thing forher skin, maybe that's the
healthiest way that she is andrather than us, as humans, would

(43:59):
be trying to eradicate that andget rid of it.
What if we were to look at itwith curiosity and say, wow,
very cool, you're green.
I wonder what the benefits togreen are Like.
What is it that's going to grownow?
And how is it that you're goingto evolve because you're green?
Yeah, and this is another pieceof it that we just don't
realize what is natural to us,because to a certain extent,

(44:21):
it's been bred out of us.
We have been told that eitheryou fit into these boxes or
there's something wrong.
Instead of saying uh-uh, likethis box, not useful to me, I'm
going to go over here.
I'm going to make my own littleplayground.
I'm going to fiddle out andfigure out who I am and
especially, to take all thattime throughout our lives to
find my cycles.

(44:41):
So what if you need 10 hours ofsleep a day?
Well, I only need five, no bigdeal.
Great, take your 10 hours ofsleep time.
That just who you are.
That's who you are.
There's a difference when itcomes from trauma, there's a
difference when it comes fromavoidance, and I think that
those are the differentiatingfactors that we need to find out
, which is, yes, we do not wantto live our lives based on

(45:05):
avoiding things.
Plants don't avoid things.
Plants figure out how to usewhat they have, how to to make
the best of it, how to create itor how to get somebody who's
going to recycle it, and I thinkthat if we were to take those
models, then that would make ourlives so much more enriched,
because then I know that I'musing everything that I am, even

(45:26):
if what I am is very differentfrom what is out there in other
worlds.

Mary (45:31):
Yeah, well, I think as humans, we think that our best
feature is our ability to thinkand reason, and that it is
sometimes.
But that's why I think all ofthe things that we're talking
about are so important toreconnect to, because you can't
think yourself out of youressential nature.
We're comparing and we're doingall of those things that are

(45:56):
actually defeating us.
One thing I want to mentionquick for people who are
listening just audio Tigrida hasbeautiful purple hair, so let
y'all know it's actually reallybeautiful, thank you.
So one of the things I alsotalk about a lot is and of
course, this thread has beenrunning through everything

(46:18):
you've said, but I talk aboutwomen and having these limiting
narratives, and this is sort ofexactly the sweet spot of what
we're talking about.
So what else can you offer kindof on that topic?
How to take up your space andrecognize that this is a
narrative I've been told I don'thave to live it.

Tigrilla (46:38):
Absolutely, and I love this.
I mean, I work across thespectrum but of course, the
majority are women and I loveworking with women specifically
because, when we look at things,like you know, the whole
ecofeminism movement is the factthat there are very similar
narratives between the blindnessthat we experience, or the
plant disparity disorder theplant blindness that we

(47:00):
experience, and what weexperience also in the course of
women.
There's a wonderful article outthere.
It was written by Prudence oh,my goodness, why can I just
blank out on Prudence's nameright now?
It'll come to me in a minuteand Monica Galeano, called the
Feminist Plants and it's aboutthe water lily and it talks very

(47:20):
in-depth and uses the metaphorsof the water lily to help us
understand these narratives thatyou've been talking about,
relating to the fact that thewater lily is supposed to look
like this super delicate plantbut in reality it is a very,
very strong plant that holds anentire ecosystem up below it.

(47:40):
So below key is this superstrong veins and rigid
structures that hold everythingup in order for you to be able
to kind of step on the waterlily and the water lily to not
snap and create, plus the waythat the leaves grow, creates
below an entire ecosystem thatis able to flourish thanks to

(48:03):
what the water lily has to offer.
And yet this plant, like manyplants, have been deemed
delicate, fragile and all thesedifferent aspects that again are
those narratives that we'vecreated.
And so working, in this case,closely with a plant, not just
as an observer and as a modelwhich is one way to work with

(48:25):
plants but literally as a mentor, like having those deep plant
conversations of being able tospend time with a plant in long
periods of time, help you tokind of reestablish who you
truly are, because the plantwill help you understand your
true nature in a very differentway, kind of starting from the

(48:48):
bottom up rather than from the,I guess maybe from the inside
out rather than from the outsidein you might want to be able to
think about.
So there's a lot of comparisonor comparison is not the right
word I want to look at.
There's many external modelsthat you can look at just by
understanding, and that's whythere is an entire field of
ecofeminism and that isfascinating to learn about,

(49:09):
because then it puts intoperspective many of the views,
uh, of the fact that you knowplants are supposed to be like,
seen, controlled.
Um, if you think about mostgardeners present, company
excluded but most gardeners arereally control freaks, to be
honest.
They want the plant to growexactly where I want you to grow
, in exactly the way I want youto grow, and I'm going to

(49:30):
measure and I'm going to takecare, I'm going to do everything
and I think I'm taking care ofyou, but in reality I'm just
controlling you.
And so the liberation of thatwildness actually one of the
episodes in my podcast, actuallythe episode that's out this
week is all about that is allabout the wildness and the
liberation and the understandingthat my true way of looking at

(49:51):
things and of being with thingsis beautiful in and of itself
and I don't have to control wheninstead, what I have to do is
give myself that space toexpress.
So there's many different waysthat working very closely with a
plant, where you see thedifference between the way
they've been personified to theway that they actually are, and
even just taking a plant in yourhome and literally spending

(50:16):
time maybe just two minutes aday really looking at that plant
, will help you see a wildnessin the expression that, when I
take a step back, I think isbeautiful because obviously
they're in my house, I mustthink is beautiful.
But when you come up close andyou spend time looking, looking
at the leaves, the soilstructure, how do the stems grow
, and everything You're like, ohmy goodness, this is like a

(50:37):
little like a craziness ofexpression that is happening and
it helps then for you to startto in that relationship, in that
reconnection back to your truenature, to the fact of I am
nature you start to see in areflection just the same as when
we have people in front of us,we see the reflections of

(50:58):
ourselves in those human peoplewhen we do this with plants, we
start to see the reflection ofourselves in plant people as
well.
And that is a very gentle alsoway of going back into this
relationship.
It's a very gentle way ofgetting to know myself.
I often say that what I do withmy clients is I take you out of

(51:18):
the human narrative completelyby pulling you out of it and
pulling you into your plantness,so that you really connect to
that presence inside of you.
If I think about my animalness,which is the fact that I as a
human being, I'm an animal fromthe perspective of my
instinctual nature, thatexpression of myself that comes
through that part, which hasmost likely been stifled, just

(51:39):
the same as we would do it tomany animals that we've, you
know, tried to control andstifle.
But if I step out of it becausesometimes it's too hard to just
hit things directly and I comeinto my plantness, which is
presence, it's mysticism, it'sdeep knowledge and understanding
, even just through themirroring of being with a plant
and allowing that slowreflection to seep into me, the

(52:03):
expansion of my senses, where Igrow out, the extra senses that
I've shut down in my humanness,and I approach it not from the
human world, the words, thethought process, the mindset,
the journaling, all of thatstuff.
Take it all out and approach itmore from your plantness to
just be in it, sit in it, let itkind of seep into you,

(52:26):
reconnect back to your body, asif I can't run away from
anything, I just have to be init.
Then, when you get reallycomfortable with where you are
there, when you step back intoyour humanness, I guarantee that
none of that conditioning shitwill bother you anymore because
you've not had to process it.
That's where the arts is such agreat way of doing things,

(52:48):
because we often work withplants in my online community,
in through the arts, because thearts first gets me back in
touch with my body, whether I dodance or movement or gesture,
just letting myself get reallyin touch with it.
But also by drawing I draw.
I can feel things in color, inexpression, in movement.

(53:09):
Nobody's looking at any ofthese drawings.
So we have, like, for example,a writing and creativity group
which is really just aboutgetting back into that planty
expression.
That defies human logic.
Because if I journal, it's tooeasy to just reinforce the
things that you already think.
But if I connect with a plantand then I draw from it or I

(53:30):
move from there or I allowmyself to just sit in it, then
all of a sudden I get out of thelanguage constraints that often
have been built and I start tobuild other networks and other
expressions of self that by thetime I step back into that human
world, then I'm not kind offalling trap into anymore.

Mary (53:53):
Yeah, that's a great way to connect because I think that
is something that can confoundus, like, how do I do this?
And I think it can be a littlescary because you know, you use
the word wild and what are womentold?
You know, stay small.
And you know, one of the thingsI love about everything you
just said is that's how I chosethe name for this podcast no
Shrinking Violets because herethey're a native plant but they

(54:16):
tend to spread prettyvoraciously and people don't
like that because then they'rein their lawns.
They think it came from aroundEngland, where men would say a
woman is a shrinking violet,meaning violets at night.
They close up because exactlywhat we just talked about a

(54:36):
minute ago, they're resting.
That doesn't mean they're weak.
They look very dainty, asyou're talking about the water
lily.
They look very dainty.
They're not.
They are very tough.
They're also the host plant forthe great spangled fritillary
butterfly, which is beautiful.
So they create this beauty.

(54:57):
So it's just that exact thingof underestimating something by
what we think it is, by lookingat it, and you know.
So that so resonates with me,because that's exactly why I've
called my podcast no ShrinkingViolets, and I have had more
than one woman talk to me about.
I had this challenge and I justkept telling myself no

(55:21):
shrinking violets, and it gaveme this ability to stand in that
space.
I love that.
Yeah, so I could talk to youfor another hour.

Tigrilla (55:31):
Wait, can I share something just really quick on
that, because I feel like it'sjust very connected.
Yeah, and this is kind of goingto exactly what you're talking
about with violets, because it'sthe same premise.
For example, I have a spiritwild plant quiz which allows you
to.
It helps you identify a spiritwild plant that wants to connect
with you.
A wild plant is basically aweed, so it connects with

(55:51):
different wild plants, and Ithink that those types of
relationships for us, especiallyas women, are extremely
important for us to have.
It doesn't matter who the plantis really, but especially if you
can do a wild plant, somebodywho has experienced this type of
expectation on them as a plantand to a certain extent, plants

(56:12):
are like I don't give a shitwhat a human says about me, I'm
still going to do whatever Iwant to do because that's who I
am, and that's why I think thatthese types of plants whether
we're talking about violets ordandelions or cattails, any of
these types of plants that havebeen habitually kind of treated
in a way where we think, oh,your wildness needs to be
stomped out, have treated in away where we think, oh, your

(56:33):
wildness needs to be stomped outare wonderful partners to help
us better understand.
What does resilience look like,what does connection look like,
what does it look like to beadaptable but yet not shrink
away, as you were just talkingabout?
And so I think that sometimesit's hard for us to kind of
imagine, you know especiallydepending on you know what your
own background is it's like, oh,what do you mean by connecting

(56:54):
with a plant in this way?
And but I think that if we'regoing to one of the guests on my
podcast and I had a reallybeautiful conversation about eco
she's an eco psychologist andwe were talking about the fact
of how the original human traumayou know, we try to think about
the original sin if you look atthe whole Christian religion
but the original human trauma isour disconnection to nature,

(57:14):
because it's that disconnectionto our true selves.
And so when you connect into awild plant in particular,
whether it be grass or whetherit be any of these others that I
mentioned it gives you anopportunity to really see what
does resilience look like andwhere are the places that
sometimes it is too much.
I mean talking about grass inparticular.

(57:36):
I mean, come on, sometimesyou're like dude, can you please
not come here, like, really nothere, like, can I ask you to
please just grow over there,right?
But also a plant that has beenkind of you know is a status
symbol plant, because the wholereason that the lawn exists,
going back to England, isbecause I have so much land as a
landowner, had so much extraland because I had so much money

(57:59):
.
I don't need to use the landfor agriculture, I'm just going
to let it be a lawn and that isgoing to show my wealth and that
is going to stifle everythingthat could grow there in order
for me to show who I am and mywealth.
Again, another parallelism towhat happens to many women and
what happens to many people ingeneral, where it's like you

(58:19):
just become this like objectthat has to behave in a certain
way to show a status, and youeven do that to yourself
sometimes.
So I highly recommend that itdoesn't always just have to be a
metaphor.
It can be, but it also can be aliving relationship in which
you start to learn from theseplants and you start to work

(58:40):
with and exchange stories andexperience different aspects of
yourself through this deepconnection that the plants help
you recognize of your natural,wild self.

Mary (58:50):
Yeah, okay, so this is perfect because I took that quiz
, so now and I'm going to, ofcourse, put it in the show notes
and I'll give you in a minutemore of the chance to talk more
about what you do but so give usright now a down and dirty on.
I'm a dandelion, so can yougive us a little quick summary
of what does that mean?

Tigrilla (59:12):
So it's beautiful because a dandelion very similar
to what you were talking aboutrelating to violets.
In that perspective, dandelionsare highly adaptable, but yet
always true to their own nature.
Right, I am going to create theself sense of self that I am
strong enough to be able tobreak through, concrete but yet
also completely nourishing.
Every single aspect of adandelion is able to nourish

(59:35):
another.
And also, I have adapted myselfso that I can move quickly
through the things that need tobe moved for right, the fact
that I go from beautiful yellowflower right To seed head and
those seeds do not need me to doanything.
I just need to stand therebecause my seeds will take
flight by themselves.
Right, they're wind powered, asopposed to a different kind of

(59:57):
flower that might have anejection type seed where I have
to put a lot of energy into it.
So the fact that right now,you're in a phase where the
reason why you're connecting isbecause you're prolific, you're
being able to like, take ofyourself, nourish others without
really adapting, to a pointwhere it's no longer you, but

(01:00:17):
yet adaptable enough to be ableto move around into different
things.
And also the perspective thatyou're at a place where you can
go into the next generation,whether the next generation of
your work or the next generationof life, knowing that the
message is going to continue tocarry on, it's going to move
into other locations and it'sgoing to completely continue to
nourish and root wherever it isthat it lands.

Mary (01:00:40):
Ooh, I love that.
I love that because you'reright, dandelions are very
maligned, especially here.
They have a very deep tap rootso you can say, oh my gosh, it's
so hard to get rid of them.
However, that means they'revery connected, you know.
They're pulling in nutrientsfrom very deep.
So, oh, I love being adandelion.
So thank you for that littlesummary.

(01:01:01):
So I will put that link sopeople can do their own little
quiz.
And you mentioned a lot of thethings you do.
Can you give us also kind of arecap of how people can connect
with you and what you can helpthem with?

Tigrilla (01:01:13):
Yeah, so I work one-on-one with people in the
sense that I have one-on-onepractice as a mentor and a coach
and it's all those aspects thatI talk about really working
very deeply with the person tohelp them find their true
essence and how it is that theywork so mainly neurodivergent,
multi passionate individualsthat are really looking to

(01:01:34):
understand their authenticselves and then find the way
that that gets expressed,communicated and create
relationships with others ofother forms.
And the other piece is that allof my work, even my one on one
work, always has a communityaspect to it, because I live in
community and so I know howimportant it is for us.
All.
Ecosystems are made of many,many diverse types of plants and

(01:01:56):
also animals and all differentkinds of species.
So even if you're workingone-on-one with me, there's
always a component that's insideof my naturally conscious
community, which is my onlineenvironment, and in the
naturally conscious community wehave lots of pieces.
There's a free part that justallows you to express and to you
know it's more.
It's kind of like a privateFacebook.
It's a private environmentbecause I do think safety is

(01:02:19):
extremely important.
We're in very delicateevolutionary forms and when
we're working on these types ofthings, even just understanding
human plant relationships.
There's a lot of questions thatwe don't have answers to yet.
Like what does it mean to killa plant to make my clothing or
my house?
Like?
We want to be able to get intothese super, super deep
conversations and screw up, likeI wanted to.

(01:02:41):
You know, do this thing and Irealized I stepped on a plant,
or I accidentally went out oftown and couldn't find somebody
to take care of my plants and Ikilled them and I feel terrible
and I don't know how to dealwith that.
So we want to have anenvironment where you can not
only explore yourself personally, but your relationship with all
of these plant allies, insometimes modes that we don't
really know what it's like, orwe want to be able to say that

(01:03:04):
with all calm, and so you have afree area, as well as two other
well, actually three othermembership levels that include
because I am amulti-potentialite many
different ways for you toexpress, and that way we have
plant-inspired masterclassdiscussions, which are deep dive

(01:03:32):
conversations on a specifictopic, and other courses, mini
voyages we have a lot ofdifferent things in there to
give you an expression and then,as part, if you're working with
me one-on-one.
You also you get everything plusa dedicated group of peers
which we meet every single month, and again, that gives you the
opportunity to not just thinkabout things for yourself or

(01:03:56):
maybe make realizations, but putthem into practice with others
that you feel safe with, so thatyou can first express them in a
way that feels safe and you canlike stretch and play and
explore, and then, wheneveryou're ready, you take it out of
the environment and into yourday-to-day life and explore and
then whenever you're ready, youtake it out of the environment
and into your day to day life.

Mary (01:04:12):
Oh wonderful, so beautiful .
I definitely am going to bechecking out more of your stuff,
but, yeah, I'm so excited tostart to go through some of your
podcast episodes too, becauseit's five minutes and I was like
, oh yeah, I got to follow you.
So thank you so much for beinghere today.
This has been fabulous.

Tigrilla (01:04:30):
My absolute pleasure and thank you so much.
It here today.
This has been fabulous.
My absolute pleasure and thankyou so much.
It's always great to speak witha fellow plant ally.

Mary (01:04:37):
Yes, thank you and thanks everyone for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode,please comment or give the show
a quick rating.
Or if you want even more plantwisdom, click the link in the
show notes to join my emailcommunity and receive my weekly
musings on plants and theirlessons in your inbox each week.
And until next time, go outinto the world and be the
amazing, resilient, vibrantviolet that you are.

(01:04:58):
Thank you.