October 9, 2025 • 55 mins
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Have you ever felt the powerful pull of something unexplainable, something that science alone couldn't quite capture? That's the fascinating territory we explore with Dr. Sue McCreadie, a holistic pediatrician who has expanded her practice in surprising ways to help women navigate their midlife transitions.
Dr. Sue shares her remarkable journey from conventional medicine to a holistic approach that embraces both scientific understanding and what some might call magic—those extraordinary influences that defy simple explanation. With warmth and wisdom, she reveals how numerical tarot became an unexpected tool in her practice, helping women connect with their subconscious patterns and unlock personal archetypes that guide their growth.
The conversation takes a deep dive into what Dr. Sue calls "second adolescence"—that transformative period in our 40s, 50s, and 60s when hormonal shifts coincide with profound questions about identity and purpose. We explore her framework of four midlife personality types (Visionary, Inspirational, Giver, and Detail Mamas), each with unique gifts and challenges. These insights provide a compassionate map for women wondering who they are beyond their roles as mothers, partners, or professionals.
Perhaps most powerfully, Dr. Sue addresses the fear many women have that personal growth will damage their relationships. Her experience suggests the opposite—that authentic development typically strengthens our connections or gives us the clarity to consciously choose new paths. The key lies in embracing uncertainty, following the "breadcrumbs" of joy, and trusting that what lights us up will lead us where we need to go.
Whether you're navigating hormonal changes, relationship shifts, or simply feeling called to something more, this episode offers both practical wisdom and soulful encouragement.
Take Dr. Sue's personality quiz at drsuemccreadie.com and discover how understanding your essential nature can help you stop "shoulding" all over yourself and start living with authentic joy. Because when women rise, we truly do raise the vibration of the world.
Comments about this episode? Suggestions for a future episode? Email me directly at NSVpodcast@gmail.com.
Follow me on Facebook and Instagram, and check out my website!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mary (00:05):
Welcome to no Shrinking Violence.
I'm your host, mary Rothwell,licensed therapist and certified
integrative mental healthpractitioner.
I've created a space where wecelebrate the intuition and
power of women who want to breakfree from limiting narratives.
We'll explore all realms ofwellness, what it means to take
up space unapologetically, andhow your essential nature is key
(00:28):
to living life on your terms.
It's time to own your space,trust your nature and flourish.
Let's dive in.
Hey, violets, welcome to theshow.
I have a few of those life isgood t-shirts.
One of them says science islike magic, but real.
(00:48):
I never really wear it anymorebecause I realized somewhere
along the way that I don'tnecessarily believe that science
and magic are mutuallyexclusive.
Okay, hear me out.
I think there are some of usthat automatically react to the
word magic as bad or assomething that is incompatible
with, maybe, religion or science.
I don't believe thatMerriam-Webster defines magic as
(01:12):
an extraordinary power orinfluence, seemingly from a
supernatural source.
Magic is somethingunexplainable, attributed to a
force we don't understand and,while some may disagree, isn't a
miracle.
In its essence, magic Isn'thaving faith, believing in
something we can't see.
To me, it's really semantics.
(01:34):
We can easily find accounts ofpeople who had incurable cancer,
only to survive for yearslonger than their prognosis said
they would.
They might attribute theirsurvival to prayer.
It's a miracle from God, butplenty of people who worship in
different ways or pray todifferent gods have the same
experience of survival.
I'm not necessarily saying itwas magic, but it was certainly
(01:56):
something less explainable, lessquantifiable than science.
My mind started down this pathbecause my guest today is a
medical doctor who supportswomen on their journey through
the application of science.
My mind started down this pathbecause my guest today is a
medical doctor who supportswomen on their journey through
the application of science andsometimes numerical tarot.
In my 35 years as a therapist,I can tell you that, while my
training didn't include aspiritual treatment plan, when
(02:18):
people can connect to a higherfrequency, they're often able to
move through issues that resistpurely science-based treatment.
I'm certainly notanti-medication, but I do know
that, because we are nature asmuch as plants and trees are, we
can heal from events andtraumas in ways that maybe we
can't imagine at first, untilwe're able to open the channels
(02:39):
and make it more clear.
Today I'm talking with SueMcCreadie.
Dr Sue is a holisticpediatrician and midlife
transformation expert who helpswomen in their 40s, 50s and 60s
navigate hormones, heartbreakand healing so they can stop
settling and start living withjoy.
Her mission to maketransformation simple, soulful
(03:00):
and even fun, because when womenrise, we raise the vibration of
the world for our children.
She believes every path isdivinely perfect, quirks are
sacred and joy is medicine, andI could not agree more.
Welcome to no Shrinking Violets, dr Sue.
Dr. Sue (03:16):
Wow, mary.
Oh my goodness, I could listento you for hours.
I'm glad you're writing a book.
Mary (03:24):
Oh, thank you
Dr. Sue (03:31):
I mean wow is all I have to say about that intro.
I get to listen to that 50times.
It's just such a validation forthe work I do, so thank you.
Mary (03:40):
You're welcome and I can't wait to dive in and learn more
about your work.
So could we start with youtelling us a little bit about
your own journey, like how didyou decide to meld your medical
training with your currentmission?
Dr. Sue (03:52):
Well, it was definitely an evolution and really, first
and foremost, I think theoverarching umbrella of it all
is following your joy, followingyour passion, following what
lights you up, even if it lookscrazy on the outside, because
often it does but you get, andalso you get to keep following
(04:14):
it.
So I became a medical doctor,in all honesty, because of my
mama.
She is 92.
No, no, 90.
At the age of this recordingshe's 90.
And when I was a child, growingup, she's an emergency room
nurse and back in the 80s, likeyou could take your kids to work
, including to the ER, likethere was no HIPAA laws or
(04:34):
anything like that.
So kids went to the ER too.
So I went to the emergency roomwith my mom and I just fell in
love with it.
I was like, wow, and I justfell in love with it.
I was like, wow, this is whereI get to really see what mom
does, and also like she'shelping people.
That's what I see, like thesepeople are helping people and
that feels really good.
(04:55):
I want to be.
I want to be a nurse mom.
And my mom if you're familiarwith the DIS profile she's a
very dominant, independentthinker.
I call them visionary mamas.
She's also really great atdetails and she was like be a
nurse, I mean, be a doctor,don't be a nurse, right?
(05:15):
And I was like wait, you know?
And her whole line of reasoningwas give the orders, don't take
the orders.
So as you can see herpersonality, she likes to give
the orders.
I honestly, I mean I'm gratefulfor that guidance.
It tells a lot about theinfluence we have on our kids,
because I never second guessedher.
I wasn't like, oh okay, I justsaid, all right, I'm going to be
a doctor.
(05:36):
And so off to the marches I wentand it was kind of a little bit
of a rough and tumble becominga doctor, because what I really
love are people and I lovehelping other people.
So my major was alwayspsychology.
I love human behavior and Iwasn't really into the science.
Mary, like to be honest, like Iguess, like you could say, I
was into the social sciences.
(05:56):
What you love is what I love,right, like I love behavior, I
love human psychology.
So when I went to into medschool I thought, well, I'll
become a psychiatrist.
Until I went on my psychiatryrotation and I was like, no
turns out in today's day and agein medicine, like I did not see
that that was going to be of mygreat of service to be in
(06:18):
psychiatry, and it did not fillmy soul at all.
Kids did, though.
When I went on the pediatricrotation, I was like, wow, kids
make me a better person period.
Like I just light up, I want tobe my best for them, I want to
show up every day for them, andthey're just like the light of
the world to me.
So I often march as I went tobecome a pediatrician, and when
(06:40):
I finished my training, Idecided to stay on an extra year
as the pediatric chief resident, which meant that, like I had
another year to figure out whatI get to do and also teach which
I love teaching and so it gaveme the kind of the space and
grace to figure out what, wheream I going to go within
(07:01):
pediatrics?
And so I actually, right afterthat year, launched my own
pediatric practice, which iskind of like unheard of in this
day and age, yeah, and even 20years ago it was definitely, and
I think a lot of my mentorswere like wow, she's jumping off
a cliff into death, like theydid not see how this was going
(07:21):
to work.
However, one did and she wasgreat.
She was like this is awesome, Ithink this is great, like flap
your wings and go, and I did,and within a couple of years I
had my oldest daughter, and thatclarity of having my daughter
(07:43):
is really and she's right there,she's like over my shoulder.
She gave me such crystalclarity about not wasting a
minute of my time doingsomething that didn't really
light up my soul, and at thetime she was born, I was still
doing primary care pediatrics,because that's what I was
trained to do is to be a primarycare pediatrician and also,
though it wasn't really lightingup my soul, what lights up my
(08:04):
soul is really helping childrenheal from the inside out.
So I pivoted my practice andthat's what I've been doing, for
I'm now in my 23rd year ofpractice of helping kids heal
nutritionally.
Nutrition is my focus, so somewould think of me as, like a
functional medical doctor iswhat we call them Back then we
didn't have a name for it.
It's just like what I chose.
(08:25):
But how I got to here, in termsof helping women navigate their
40s, 50s and 60s and sustainhappiness despite all the
curveballs that are thrown ourway midlife is by figuring out
like is a kind of a twisty turnypath of moms in my practice
come and say, well, how can youhelp me?
(08:45):
Right, and initially I thought,oh, you want me to be your
functional medical doctor?
And I was like, oh, thatdoesn't fit, so sorry, I cannot
do that.
So I tried different versionsof it, you know, and ultimately
I like started and stopped a fewdifferent entrepreneurial
businesses supporting women, andthe last one was coaching which
(09:06):
cracks me up, mary, because Ihired a coach to figure this
whole thing out a decade ago andI said all I know is I don't
want to be you coaching.
A decade later, I turn aroundand be like I am you coaching.
So yeah, it's been a beautifulride and I would say the
ultimate theme is just likefollowing the breadcrumbs right,
(09:28):
like they don't always make alot of sense when you're
following them, but ultimatelyyou start to put the pieces.
Mary (09:36):
You there, okay.
First of all, I want tohighlight the fact that it was
your mom that said don't be anurse, be a doctor, and it goes
to the whole thing about, youknow, this idea of socialized
scripts that typically menpursue medical school and women
(09:56):
pursue nursing school and not todownplay anybody that is a
nurse, Because it is one of theanything physical.
Give me a mental illness above aphysical illness any day of the
week and the hard work thatbecause I worked at colleges
where we train nurses and I knowhow hard it is.
Those rotations are very, veryhard so I truly admire it.
(10:17):
But I think giving you thatmessage that you can go in
whatever direction you want tois so empowering.
Dr. Sue (10:25):
It is.
I agree with you too, becauseat first, when I say that that's
the truth of what was said,that's what I remember.
And I never want to take that aslike I can honor the ground
where nurses walk on.
Yes, whenever I've been apatient, it's the nurses that
you fall in love with, it's thenurses that are the bridge right
(10:45):
.
They're like, literally, you'vegot them on each arm, like okay
, we're walking right.
So, yes, and I agree, and I dobelieve like it really was her
expanding my viewpoint right,because in her day and age, you,
there weren't really femaledoctors, like it was.
You're going to be a nurse oryou're going to be a teacher.
Those were like the two primarypathways for careers.
Mary (11:04):
Yes, yeah, and I also like the idea that you tried
different things and you know, Ithink people have an idea that
success is linear and it's notlinear.
There's a lot of you have to godown paths and you know that
idea of we think of failure.
It's not failure, it's, it's alearning experience, because
that's really if everythingalways worked out, what would
(11:27):
you learn?
So I like, too, that you wereexploring that.
So here's what came to mindwhen I read your information for
a while, because I did sort ofthe same thing as you and I
actually I'm now certified infunctional nutrition.
So I think that is so powerful.
And I wanted to add that to myyou know my license in therapy,
because we're a whole being.
(11:48):
You know we're not just fromthe makeup.
But I was sort of working inthat period of to post
menopausal space and even in theyear or two I was doing that,
it started to be so much louderand more confusing.
Confusing and so many likemessages out there that simplify
(12:08):
things.
And you know, I think we're asociety that we want something
that like give me a pill.
We've been trained to think itshould be fast.
Nutrition's not fast.
All of the things that I saw onyour website.
They're not fast.
So tell me how that's been foryou to, because it's just
getting, I think, because it'shaving a moment which it should,
(12:29):
I think everybody's kind oflike.
I think I'll focus on thisbecause there's so many women
going into menopause becomingaware that they don't have to
stay silent, and there's waymore layers to this.
So what has been yourexperience in working with this?
How has that been for you?
Dr. Sue (12:50):
I would agree and I think that's why I've chosen not
like I.
I agree with the fact that it'snot simple, it's not easy and I
feel like that's why I chosenot to focus on women's health
and physical health, because Iwas like, wow, this is a lot
going on here and it is in kidsand chronic health, kids
(13:11):
situations too.
However, I just feel likethat's like I don't know I get
to unravel that ball.
It seems a lot easier to me.
So that was kind of like thefirst pivot of just honoring
like wow, there are a lot ofphysiological changes happening
in a woman's life in her forties, fifties and sixties, and I
think of hormone, I think oflike midlife or menopause.
Perimenopause is really likesecond adolescence, right, so it
(13:35):
allows people who maybe aren'tat the stage in life, or maybe
for your kids Cause that's how Iexplained to my kids I was like
remember, like when you firststarted shooting out all those
hormones and like your bodyfeels so uncomfy, like you no
longer even feel physicallynormal in your body because it's
shifting and your identity ischanging, right, like you think
of adolescents are declaringthemselves, they're figuring out
(13:56):
who they are in the world, andI figure like midlife is the
same way.
It's like who am I now if I'mnot raising these kids?
Who am I now if I'm no longeryou know, someday I won't be a
doctor anymore Like, well then,who am I?
Right?
So you have these identitychanges.
You have a lot of relationshipchanges, including with your
kids.
If you have kids, yourrelationship changes because
they're no longer, like,dependent on you.
(14:16):
Like we just went through, likemoving to college kids and
one's a senior ones is startingher freshman year and, like the
seniors, like old hat, okay, wegot this, like away, you go, you
know.
And this middle one, it waslike, oh my gosh, there's like
this big gaping hole in our homeright now because she's not
here, right?
So you go through all thesechanges of like yay, I'm so
(14:37):
happy for you and oh, this feelsso different.
And so all these changes arehappening.
And what I love about that andcoming back to like how, how,
what I've chosen to focus onthis area for women in their 40s
and 60s is like how do wenavigate that and still feel
happy in the process?
(14:58):
Like how do we sustainhappiness even if our body's
changing all of a sudden?
My skirt doesn't fit like itused to, and that makes me sad.
How do we flip that into what'sgreat about this is right?
And so, using all these youknow personal development
frameworks that I've learnedalong the way in terms of
shifting and flipping the script?
(15:19):
Or like I just you know, eventhis morning I had a client
where she's got a new physicalsymptom right and she's a
licensed professional in health,so she immediately goes to I've
got cancer right, like I alwaysstart out, like isn't it funny
we just we focus and we just goto like worst case scenario
(15:41):
right, and then we just start ohmy gosh, I'm gonna die before
my kids and I'm not going to behere to see the grandkids.
Like we just start oh my gosh,I'm gonna die before my kids and
I'm not gonna be here to seethe grand.
Like we just create all thesescenarios and so really like
kind of piecing apart like whatis that really right?
And absolutely doing thestrategy of like okay, ask for
help, find the clinician, dosome testing right, like the
practical, which I think is theeasier part.
(16:03):
The harder part is wrangling ourmind like lassoing it in to
focus on what's going right.
What's great about this isyou're paying attention to your
body.
What's great about this issymptoms are a sign of something
shifting.
What's great about this is welive in America, where we have
great health care.
What's great about this isright, so starting to stack all
(16:24):
the good things you know for herto focus on.
So I there's just somethingabout that that feels, like you
said for my mom, like soempowering.
I feel like that's what I'mdoing is just like helping women
, like okay, this is happening,and yet still this how we can
move forward in an empowered way.
Mary (16:44):
Yeah, and when those shifts happen physically, I mean
so much for women is a focus onwhat do we look like?
And that's so much of thatnarrative, that social narrative
you have worth.
Depending what you look likeand as those things shift, then
it is sort of this okay, myidentity, that's a huge thing
(17:07):
because your identity changes.
But the other thing that Ithink that your approach also
addresses is, as we go throughlife and we do our thing, we
establish our career, we raiseour kids we're having traumatic
experiences, and it doesn't needto be big, sweeping trauma.
But when we have any loss welose a pet, or a relationship
(17:30):
ends, we get remarried, or wethought we were going to get
married, or you know or we losea job we love, or we even change
jobs all of those lossesaccumulate in our body.
And so I feel like you know, Ihad a friend of mine call it the
second spring when we gothrough menopause, and to me as
a gardener that is so beautifulbecause we do have tremendous
(17:51):
hormonal shifts that we can't doanything about.
But what we can do somethingabout is exactly what you're
saying our mindset, how we frameit and start to take the time
for ourselves to look at.
What have I really been through, that I never took the time to
examine and find a place for inmy heart, and all of those
things which I think that lightsme up Like I love that being
(18:15):
able to assist, because that'swhat my private practice is.
It's really women in the exactage range you're talking about
and I just I love that they'refinally able to take time for
themselves and look at thosethings.
Dr. Sue (18:27):
That's so beautiful.
I love your garden analogy.
I often use a garden foranalogy, for gut health, yes,
yeah, but, as you were talkingabout, because that's what I do
in kids, as you were talking now, I was like, isn't that what
we're doing?
I'm really helping them, like,pull the weeds in the garden so
more flowers can grow and reallyfocus on growing the flowers,
(18:50):
right, and just consistentlypulling the weeds, and I feel
like the weeds are traumas, bigor little, you know, which is
just the state of our nervoussystem going through different
changes that were presented within life and sort of figuring
out how can I shift theperspective on what quote
unquote happened to me.
(19:11):
So I see it as happening for meor for the greater good, Right,
and I feel like that shift inperspective is what, yeah,
really catapults forward for usto, like you know, grow a
beautiful garden.
Mary (19:23):
Yeah, okay, I'm going to take the side street that I
teased in my intro.
Tell us about numerical tarot.
Now, I've had my tarot cards,read the numerical part I don't
quite get, but I'm sure there'speople listening that really
don't have any idea.
So can you give us a foundation?
And then, how do you use thatwith women?
Dr. Sue (19:45):
don't have any idea.
So can you give us a foundation?
And then, how do you use thatwith women?
Okay, beautiful, I'll firststart before I give the
foundation is like how did Ieven stumble upon this?
Because it does follow the sameframe of reference that I
introduced at the beginning,which is I just followed my
heart and we, my husband and I,were on a getaway weekend in
Asheville, north Carolina.
We were just strolling thestreets, walking into the stores
and one store I walk into.
(20:06):
It was like Christmas, it wasjust bursting for me and I was
walking around the store.
I was just drawn to this backright corner where I was like
particularly to this deck ofcards.
It was like just this energeticpull of like.
I picked them up.
I'm like I don't even know whatthis is.
It says tarot.
I've heard that word before.
I'm not sure what exactly thatis, but I get to have this deck
(20:27):
of cards, is what I said.
So then I got home and I havethis deck of cards and I'm like
well, what do I do with this,you know?
And since I'm a learner and Ilove learning, I just found, you
know, I found a teacher.
I found a teacher and learnedmore about it's purcled in.
(20:49):
So tarot for those of you whohave never heard this word,
tarot is basically used to be adeck of playing cards back in,
like, I think, the 1500s or so,and it was just like you play
with these cards, like now weplay with a 52 card deck, like
they played with these tarotcards.
Right and through time andevolution, people have used them
in different ways and I'llshare how I'm going to, how I
(21:10):
use them.
Numerology is the study ofnumbers.
Numbers have patterns and Ihave always seen like different
number patterns for a couple,like a few decades now actually,
where I would see like a one,one, one, and then a two, two,
two and then a five, five, five.
And I was like what is going onhere?
So that I was introduced tolike angel numbers or messages.
(21:32):
And it really came into my lifewhen I was having multiple
miscarriages and it felt so likeGod.
It just felt like God speakingto me.
It felt like someone was seeingmy pain and like giving me
purpose.
It felt like someone was likejust keep going, so I would just
get these little breadcrumbsand they were just life giving
to me.
So I started to notice thepattern and write down little
(21:54):
messages and kind of take notes.
I feel like they're like littleGod winks, you know, like you
look at a license plate and it'slike pops up.
So just kind of putting thosethings together was the first
time I thought about numbers.
But more recently, around thistime of tarot, I learned that
there's a whole study callednumerology that I had never
heard of, which is studies ofnumbers and and all different
(22:16):
ways of doing that.
Pythagoras is one of them.
You know Pythagorean, likewe've heard from math in terms
of practical, but he actuallyused to have a school that
incorporated the studies ofnumbers and that numbers carry
energies in themselves, right,which makes sense because really
in quantum physics, likeeverything is energy.
The desk right here is energy,is just more solid than than the
(22:37):
air, right?
So I was like okay, and since Iwas learning them at the same
time, I started just blendingthe two together, because, tarot
, these cards have numbers onthem, and so I started looking
at how the two go together.
Now, how I use them.
I use them like a psychologistor a therapist or, you know,
(23:01):
psychiatrists may use what wecall the inkblot, right, where
it's that white piece of paperwith black on it, and then they
say look at it, what do you see?
Right?
Yeah, and the idea is that weall see a little something
different.
Something else pops up and andI look at that as like a
connection to the subconscious,because in personal development,
(23:23):
we've learned that our currentbehaviors and habits and
therefore results right, whatwe're currently experiencing
right now is from drivenprimarily more so from our
subconscious thoughts and oursubconscious feelings and our
(23:44):
subconscious limiting beliefsand our subconscious or
empowering beliefs too, likesubconscious beliefs and rules
right.
And so when we're looking toget different results, whether
that's in our health, ourrelationships or our, you know,
work or mission in the world, weget to uncover those deeper
(24:05):
roots which are the subconsciousyou know beliefs and and rules
and and thoughts and things thatwe don't even think about on a
conscious level, right.
And so I started realizing likewow, this is just a great tool
for me to connect to the personsubconscious, like she's doing
the work for me in essence,right.
(24:28):
So I look at it as like that'sthat if I had, like, a doctor's
bag, that's my doctor's bag.
That's, that's the tool likeI'm using in coaching.
Instead of a stethoscope, I amusing tarot cards, and not with
everyone, because some people,just the way that they, you know
, their dogma what they'reworking with, like one of the
(24:48):
clients that I was working withthis morning.
She's Catholic, you know, andso this in her world is not
important, right?
What's important is myrelationship with God and source
, and she reads the Bible everyday and I honor all pathways to
God, right, all pathways tosource, all pathways to universe
.
It's like whatever lights youup and keeps you moving forward
(25:09):
on the straight and narrow path,and fun path is great and
that's the big thing I see withtarot too, is that it is fun.
So part of the principle of itis like we're all born on a
certain date, like I was born onMarch 8th 1972.
So if you add up three pluseight plus one plus nine, plus
seven plus two, you get 30, andthree plus zero is three.
(25:34):
So we can all reduce our birthdates to a number that's between
one and nine and thosecorrespond to a tarot card
because they're numbered onethrough nine.
So like when I'm a number three, I don't know if.
Do you know what you are, mary,if you add up your birth?
date have you ever done thatbefore?
Mary (25:53):
No, but we can do it.
Dr. Sue (25:54):
Okay, let's do that.
Let's see.
By the way, don't even think Ido this in my head anymore,
because I get my handy dandycalculator.
(26:30):
Yes.
So this is fun, okay.
So two in the tarot is the highpriestess and three in the
tarot is the Empress.
So you're two, I'm a three Ialways think of like this is fun
because the high priestess isshe's got a big old direct
funnel to source.
(26:51):
She's very, very intuitive.
She's very connected to sourceor god or universe, however you
see it, she, um, yeah, and she's, I think of her like if the
feminine has like a masculine,it's like a feminine entity has
kind of a masculine and feminine.
She's a little bit morefeminine, she's a little more
intellect, right, the highpriestess would be kind of more
(27:15):
of the empath of the feminine.
So she's like the mother of allmothers.
So she's like in her, you know,queendom, in her garden she's
always birthing something youknow.
She's really creative, yeah,and she's into love and beauty,
like love is, you know, herdriving force.
But she's like the mother ofall mothers, right, and?
(27:36):
And so that's where I show,like if I was in a client
session and I was with you, mary, I'd show you the high
priestess.
When you see the high priestess,you're just like wow, like it,
just it connects, you'll connectwith certain parts of it, right
, and like, when I see theEmpressress, I just always
connect with her pregnant belly.
(27:57):
You know it's like no wonder Ifocus on mothers and kids.
I'm an empress, you know, likethat makes perfect sense.
That career path for me and sothat's what it brought to me is
like more of an understanding,you know, more of a.
And these are all archetypes,like, yes, I have the high
priestess within me too.
I get to activate her, I get toturn her up Right, and, and so,
(28:20):
you know, we all have thesedifferent archetypes, which are
just patterns of behavior, youknow.
And when we start to activatethem, you know that's when we
start to hear, like, sometimes Ijust need to hear what the high
priestess has to say on thismatter, right, yeah, sometimes I
just need to plug into mycreativity, and a big thing with
the Empress is learning how toreceive right, like learning how
(28:44):
to be receptive rather thanalways the giver Right.
So, yeah, that's kind of how Iplay with it.
Mary (28:53):
Wow, thanks for doing that .
I of how I I play with it.
Wow, thanks for doing that.
I already feel like I'm sittinga little taller.
Dr. Sue (29:03):
Just you saying I'm like high priestess, I'm like,
oh, I love that, yeah.
And one of the things like, didyou say I've already lost it on
my calendar?
Did you say you're?
Did you say you're January 23rd, right, your?
Did you say your January 23rd,right, yeah?
So so two plus three is five,and five is the hero event,
which I had never heard thatword before.
But it's like a teacher, it's astudent and a teacher, which I
(29:24):
see a lot in your, in your pathso far, right, of not only
learning more information, butalso like being able to share
that, being able to teach that,like whether it's through your
practice or your book, right.
And so another big number forus is the actual day we were
born on.
So if you're, you know, ifyou're a high priestess and
(29:45):
number five, that would be thefifth, the 14th or the 23rd of a
month, right?
So, yeah, it's just likethere's patterns and to me, the
whole reason I like numerologyand playing with tarot and
archetypes is because I lovehuman behavior.
I've known that from thebeginning.
I also with patterns.
A big part of personaldevelopment is see the pattern
(30:09):
and use the pattern.
Instead of the pattern, usingyou so you can create a new
pattern.
So to me, it's just like when Iknew that there was a study of
numerology and that there'sthese patterns happening.
Like we're at the year 2025,two plus two plus five is nine.
We're in a hierophant year.
And now, like I just startedbeing like how can I use this
information so that I'm workingwith it instead of feeling like
(30:33):
rough and tumbled by it?
Right, which I think is a lotof what astrology is.
Like it's not predetermineddestiny.
Like I believe we're bornconscious with free will.
It's just like can we use thisinformation to become a little
bit more enlightened as we'regoing through this growth
process, right, and so sometimesit can feel super supportive
and, like you said, kind ofstand a little taller, you know,
(30:56):
and just understand a littlebit more about ourselves and
more about others and, yeah,what we're going through.
Mary (31:03):
Yeah, I talk a lot about limiting narratives, especially
with women, and I think this Icould see it being a really
powerful tool to give thempermission to explore something
that maybe they have a senseabout, and this is what I when I
talk about essential nature.
We all, as kids, I think, knowwho and what we are and what we
(31:23):
love, and then, as ourenvironment happens, we have to
survive our environment and thento come back around to be able
to figure out who are we really,because I would always go to
the woods when I was a kid Iwould go into the forest and I
loved that and I read books thatusually about fantasy stuff,
and so later, you know, you growup, girls hit middle school and
(31:45):
the things you don't climbtrees because you're not.
You know you don't do all ofthose things anymore because
it's then you're a weirdo.
You know you don't do all ofthose things anymore because
then you're a weirdo.
So I think, as we connect backto that, I think as adult women,
especially in this age we'vebeen talking about, you know you
have this sense in.
What I sense from you is justnot only confidence, but just
(32:09):
you expand people and I thinkeven just hearing you observe
that for somebody can be thatpowerful permission for a woman
to say, well, I never reallythought of myself as a high
priestess, but tell me more.
And then I think you start toopen up to that because you know
, so often we reflect what wethink others believe us to be.
(32:34):
And when somebody believes thatyou have certain things and I
love the other side of it toolike where might that be a
drawback for your life?
Because nothing is ever 100%positive, right?
And so also embracing thatshadow part of ourselves, like
what are the things that I mightcringe at or be embarrassed,
and how can I use them as astrength?
(32:57):
So that was a lot I just kindof tossed out there, but I just
that's.
Dr. Sue (33:00):
I love what I heard is limiting narrative Love that I
also heard.
What I do is expand, likeexpand possibilities and
expansion is a big word thatdescribes a three.
Just think of it like one plusone right Of a mom and a dad or
two partners coming together.
(33:21):
Creating a third like a family,is expansion, you know?
Yeah, so one plus one doesn'tequal two, like it's three.
You're creating like a wholethird entity.
Mary (33:41):
Anyways, yeah, that's really fun.
I love that.
Yeah, so there was something Iwanted to ask about.
Let me look here.
Okay, so I think sometimes andthis is a little stereotypical,
but I think sometimes women gothrough into this stage of life,
this sort of middle stage, andthey may continue to have done
some things in the context oftheir marriage or their
(34:01):
partnership or their family, andit's not comfortable, but they
keep doing it because they'renot sure how to, like, move out
of that.
So what I've heard sometimesfrom women is how do I move into
this new space or be thisdifferent type of person?
Like, let's say, you've beenmarried for 15 years or 20 years
(34:23):
?
And all of a sudden you'rethinking I want to go in this
different direction.
What is my partner going tothink or how's it going to
impact my family?
So is that something that comesup in your work, and how would
you help a woman sort of movethrough that that worry or that
concern?
Dr. Sue (34:40):
So am I hearing the question correctly of, like
something's shifting,something's changing, and how do
I get more comfortable withbeing in that change?
Mary (34:51):
Yeah, and sort of the idea of how does a woman's personal
growth impact her family and ifshe has a concern.
Dr. Sue (34:56):
Oh, my goodness.
Mary (34:57):
Yeah, impact impacting her family impact Cause I think we
tend to think it's going to be anegative.
People aren't going to like it.
Oh, so I think of it as maybepeople might be a little
uncomfortable in the beginning,but I think that growth can only
be positive.
But I'm curious about yourthought on that.
Dr. Sue (35:17):
This brings up a lot of well.
First of all, it brings up afunny client story that I was
helping.
Again, I only work with women,so I'm only working with, like
one side of the dance.
This person happened to bemarried in a relationship that
experienced infidelity.
So let's say there's takes twoto tango and at one time the
(35:40):
person that I wasn't coachingwas like is this going like this
personal development you knowcause I'm working in the women
who's like personally developing?
And you know she was married toher, you know, and it's still
married to her husband.
And he was like is this likehonestly?
At one point he's like I thinkthis is going to kill us, like
(36:01):
this is going to be the end ofus, right, you know, and it is
kind of like navigating somereally uncomfy waters and I feel
like that's really a part of mybig life contract is I'm there
for the transitions, right?
And this particular couple hadexperienced infidelity in the
relationship and was really likereally rocky and then would get
stable and then would likereally get rocky again, and it
(36:23):
was all about like perspectiveand understanding, like what
does this mean?
And like how, how do we moveforward with this sacred, broken
contract, in essence, right,and so anyways, I'm laughing
because at that point that wassomewhere in the middle, like
maybe like a third to maybe likealmost to the halfway point.
By the last time I met withthis woman because we only
(36:46):
worked together for like sixmonths it was pretty amazing.
He was popping his head in hey,dr Sue, how are you?
I was like, oh my gosh, you.
And so I think that's like casein point of one of the things
that my one of my big mentors,who's taught me a lot about
(37:07):
personal development is TonyRobbins, and one of the things
that he says is the quality ofyour life is determined by the
amount of uncertainty you cancomfortably handle.
Mary (37:22):
Yeah.
Dr. Sue (37:22):
The quality of your life is determined by the amount
of uncertainty you cancomfortably handle, and so me
kind of popping into their tosome equation was massive
uncertainty.
I would say more so for thehusband than it was even for the
woman.
Yeah, and so they.
(37:45):
They navigated it, though Causewe it always takes two to tango
and that's why people arealways like how's this going to
work If husband's not here or mypartner's not here?
You know, and always like youchange.
They have to change becauseit's a relationship one doesn't
you know.
And I think that's why it's sointeresting, because what I
heard the second time yourelated to the question is that
(38:05):
some women are they afraid tolike, develop themselves because
they feel like they're going torock the boat too much and the
risk is someone will leave me.
Usually I'll be.
It's a loss that they, theyforesee a loss happening.
My experience for myself, goingthrough this process for myself
(38:26):
I can just speak for myself.
It has brought me nothing butmore, more connection with my
husband, more connection with mychildren, more connection with
my patients and my clients.
My personal development, like Iwas talking about.
I'm a pediatrician.
I've never read a parentingbook.
I'm a mother of three.
I've never read a parentingbook.
(38:47):
I just feel like relationshipsare a reflection, like a mirror,
right, life's just a mirrorreflecting our unease with
ourselves.
And so when we, the more wework on ourselves, you know, the
more and our relationships, youknow, expand, and I do think
(39:08):
that that it can lead toconscious uncoupling, if that
makes sense, like we can havepersonal development where we
come to a point in understandingwhich I navigated one of my
daughters through, that right.
It's like, unfortunately, thisperson, you're meeting their top
two needs.
Like you're meeting their needsand they're not meeting yours.
(39:31):
So they're never going anywhere, sweetheart, they're going to
stick around forever becauseyou're meeting their needs and
they're not meeting yours.
So they're never going anywhere, sweetheart, they're going to
stick around forever becauseyou're meeting their needs, you
know.
But if they're not meeting yourneeds, that's when you're going
to get to say like this justisn't working for me, I love you
and also this is over, you know.
So I think, doing it in aconscious way, rather than
saying there's something wrongwith you, I'm leaving because of
(39:52):
you, it's like, oh, I totallyown this.
Like I have these needs.
You're not meeting them, youknow, and I know you're you're
trying to and it's just notworking Right.
And we've tried to do this andwork together.
And also, this isn't working,so you can consciously uncouple
that way.
That makes sense.
Mary (40:10):
Oh yeah, for sure.
I think there's a lot of fearthat comes in because fear of
being alone or fear of startingto be too much, because that is
one of the narratives as women,don't be too much, stay small,
play it safe.
And as we explore ourselves andwhat we really want and do this
(40:31):
thing you know we talked aboutexpanding.
That is something I talk aboutall the time take up your space.
But I think part of taking upyour space means you use your
voice, you give your opinion,you might make choices that you
hadn't made in the past, and Ithink there's always fear
because, like you mentioned, ifsomeone doesn't like it, if we
(40:53):
have been conditioned to do thething that pleases people and
we're no longer doing that, it'salso arriving at the space to
be able to say but it's rightfor me and that makes it okay.
Dr. Sue (41:08):
And I think I don't know what your experience is,
but my experience is dependingon your personality type and
again, we all carry all types ofpersonalities.
Personalities, again, arepatterns of behavior but we kind
of have different set pointsand you know, that's why on my
website I have a quiz todiscover your I call them mama
(41:30):
types your midlife personalitytype.
And to me, some of the thingsthat you're bringing up right
now, mary, are very common forwhat I call the giver, mamas of
the world.
So like one personality typelike is a visionary.
Visionary is like I think ofher, like the Beyonce's of the
world, like the Gwyneth Paltrow,so just like I'm here, you got
(41:51):
a problem with it, that's yourproblem.
Like I'm going this way, getout of my way, you know.
And we look to them becausethey're so confident, they're so
just own it, they just so sayit how it is.
And we're just like can I havea piece of that?
Like how does she do that?
Right?
And like you said, every upsidehas its downside.
(42:12):
So I would say the downside ofa visionary mama is like she can
really bowl over people in herway.
So relationships can be alittle tricky for her, you know,
sometimes it's really hard forher to intimately like into me.
You see, like intimacy,vulnerability, like really
allowing others to see herweaknesses, can be very
challenging for her.
(42:34):
The inspirational mama is theone who's like sunshine.
You know she's the energy inthe room, she's the one you go
to because she's always going tohave silver lining every crappy
situation that's going on inyour life, right.
And the downside is she can getreally distracted.
Shiny objects are everywhere.
I want this and that and this.
(42:57):
You know it diffuses her energy, right.
The giver mama, like you werementioning, can very much be
more like the upside of thegiver mama.
Oh, my gosh, she's a giver Like.
She's a woman who, just likeshe's the natural mama inside
all of us, like, come to me, getinside my womb If you need to,
like, let me just take care ofyou, let me hold you, Let me
listen to you.
(43:17):
She's an incredible soul andthe heart.
The downside for her is she canbecome, you know, kind of a
doormat.
You know, like boundaries areproblems.
She can become a real peoplepleaser, like doing everything
for everyone else, and shebecomes last and leads to
feelings like resentfulness andbitterness, right, and then the
(43:38):
last is a detailed mama who islike dotting our I's, crossing
our T's.
She's proofreading your papers,you know, like you read it 500
times and she sees like youmissed that and we look to her
to keep us organized and on set.
She'll come over to your houseand organize your cabinets and
it fills her up, you know.
(43:58):
And the the downside of the ofthe detail mama could be that
like life can get a little dry,like loosen it up, allow some
more spontaneous spontaneity tocome through right.
So I I say that all to describethat the tendencies that I most
run into for women that Ipersonally work with are
(44:19):
definitely more of like thegiver variety, where I'm
depleted, I'm depressed, I'moverwhelmed, I'm bitter, like
why am I always doing all thethings right?
She's contorting herself in alldifferent ways, including just
getting smaller, staying silent,saying nothing Right, and just
(44:41):
like thinking if I just getsmall enough, won't that be
enough for them.
You know.
Mary (44:47):
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Sue (44:49):
So, yes, I see a lot of that, and I think that's why,
I'm sure, in your work too, likewe talk so much about
boundaries, where I end and youbegin, and I think that's the
beauty of like.
I work with group coaching too,and I think that's the beauty
of like, if you have a visionaryand a giver in the same, you
know they're going to callforward each other.
(45:09):
They're going to be like girl,you've got this, like stand up,
pull those bootstraps up.
You know, and others will belike I think you need to sauce
it a little bit.
Oh, let us into you a littlebit more.
And so I love that collectively, we can call each other forward
as women.
(45:29):
It feels super safe, you know,because we're in, like a safety,
safe space.
Mary (45:36):
I think women's circles and women's groups are really
powerful in that way Becauseunfortunately sometimes we're
set up to be competitors.
That's happens on social mediaand I hate it, but I think when
you actually bring womentogether, especially if you're
in a physical shared space, Ithink that I've seen that be
really life-changing, even in ashort time, because we do have
(45:59):
such power to support each otherand help everybody know like
they're okay.
You're okay just as you are.
Here's my experience.
I went through this thingbecause you can also feel like
nobody else is feeling like this.
It has to just be me.
So that's what I love about ittoo you reflecting back to each
other.
You know what you're seeing,the beauty of what you're seeing
(46:21):
.
So I imagine women arelistening right now and feeling
this sort of call to expand intothese kinds of ways that we're
talking about.
And I know that you do haveyour quiz, which I took, and do
you want to take a guess?
It ended up, unfortunately, inmy promotions tab and I didn't
(46:44):
see it.
I could only skim it, but Iknow what I am, so I want to see
if you can get.
Dr. Sue (46:49):
Okay, what I see in you , what comes forward to me in
you, is definitely a giver mamaand a detail mama.
That's what I see in you.
What did it say?
Mary (47:00):
Detail.
Dr. Sue (47:01):
Detail.
Mary (47:02):
Yeah, so I have to read more.
I have to read more about that.
Because when you said I thinkit's also this part of my life,
because when you said bringingin more spontaneity right now,
trying to build a business, thatpart is because you don't want
to miss something or you don't.
You know, I feel like I have somany irons in the fire and I
like when I look away from one,I'm like, oh, I have to look
over here.
(47:22):
And so I am very detailoriented, which is not typical.
I am detail-oriented, but myenergy, I think, is more kind of
being about connecting topeople, and it's also when
you're working for yourself.
I do miss the energy of people.
You know being with a team oftherapists or you know, a team
(47:43):
with a shared mission of helpingyoung people.
I really, really miss that.
So I think that's what I'vebeen feeling like I need to sort
of move more back towardsomething where I can connect
with people and create impactlike that, instead of just sort
of sitting by myself each dayand trying to figure out, like
(48:03):
what is the next step.
Dr. Sue (48:05):
That's beautiful.
I love that and and I would saylike a lot of times you know
you can see your personalitythrough your career path.
Like to me, a therapist is likea giver mama, until she's
proven otherwise, because youspend your life listening to
people, right, and like you'rejust yeah, so I think that's
(48:29):
awesome, awesome.
I and I think like how you canuse this quiz is like you see
your gifts and then you kind ofsee your challenges and what I'm
hearing like it's life is feels.
I mean like you could bringmore fun in.
The fun factor for you seems tobe more about connection, like
getting that connection that youexperienced as a therapist with
(48:52):
the people and and also, youknow, probably colleagues as
well, as what I hear.
Yeah, so that's beautiful.
That's like a beautiful way touse the quiz.
It's so many ways you could usethe quiz.
You can reflect on it just inyour personal life, your
professional life.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
Mary (49:07):
Well, it's also a beautiful quiz to take the
picture, so I encourageeverybody.
Dr. Sue (49:11):
You know we'll.
Mary (49:11):
I'll put a link in the show notes to your website,
because I also love that as soonas you go to your website, it's
there and it pulls you in anddo this because it's a great
starting place.
So, in general, if somebody'sthinking, okay, how do I bring
more of this into your life?
Obviously you're a startingpoint.
Right, you mentioned you haveyour coaching, you have your at
least quiz to give a startingpoint.
(49:31):
But there are there.
Could you give like maybe threethings just in life that you
could start to because I knowyou talked about noticing
numbers, or are there any waysthat people can, or women can,
start to maybe?
I see it as kind of looseningup and starting to tune into
something that would make someshifts for them.
Dr. Sue (49:54):
Okay, I'm listening, mary, because I know like, wow,
that sounds like something thehigh priestess may say.
I feel you like connecting withsomething that's beyond
yourself, right, and maybe it'sjust the overarching theme of
what we've talked about already.
Like, what about just followingthe breadcrumbs?
Like, if you want to take thatart class, go take the art class
(50:16):
.
Like, don't have to justify oflike, what is this leading to
nothing?
You don't know.
You could be sitting down nextto your next best friend at the
art class.
You could shift your perspectivein the art class on something
totally unrelated to art,because when you're in art, it's
like connecting to yoursubconscious, right.
(50:37):
So I feel like just followingthe breadcrumbs, following what
feels fun, following what lightsyou up, like the garden for you
, mary, is always a place I feelof like cultivating your soul
is just being in the garden.
Your soul is just being in thegarden, you know.
So, yeah, does that make sense?
Like I think that's really likewhat leads us to really get a
(51:00):
shift outside of ourselves is tokeep following the breadcrumbs.
You know, like I followed, Ijust picked up the tarot.
I was like I don't know, Idon't get it, I don't understand
yet, but I do know that this islighting up my soul, so I'm
going to figure, just take it,figure it out and take the next
thing right.
That's kind of how I look at it.
Mary (51:20):
And don't just say no when you don't understand it.
Let it be an option, because Ithink we sometimes think we
often need a reason, like I'mdoing this because you don't,
and I recently heard this idea.
The same friend that talkedabout second spring started to
use this word liminal space.
And it's this space where wedon't yet know we're just kind
(51:44):
of figuring it out and we don'tknow the destination.
And I think that's so coolbecause we feel like we have to
run through that space.
It's like this empty space andit's like sometimes you can
exist there.
It's kind of what you talkedabout with the couple it's when
you don't know what's going tohappen.
It's really.
It can be very unnervingbecause we like to know what's
(52:08):
happening.
But I think that sense ofadventure or exploration, or
just kind of let it be an optionand you don't have to decide,
just like you're saying, go withthe next thing, you know,
follow the next crumb and belike, oh, this might be cool and
maybe it won't end up beinganything, but it's gonna take me
(52:29):
then to the next thing.
So I think that's a great placeto start.
I think if somebody reallywants to start to expand the
ways we've been talking about,yeah, don't make it wrong.
Dr. Sue (52:40):
You bring another client to mind for me and she is
in her 40s.
She is single, she's kind ofbetween career, she's just not
quite landing it.
You know, like she feels so off, like she's behind.
Why doesn't she have a family?
Why does she have kids?
Like, why doesn't she know whatthey she's supposed to be doing
?
Yet, right, like how could Ihave gotten this far in life?
(53:01):
And still I'm like, yeah, and Ifeel like that's exactly where
she is.
She just gets to hang out in theunknown and the uncertainty and
keep following the littlebreadcrumbs which for her.
She loves animals, right, soshe's of service and dog sits
and sits and goes, hangs out atthe barn and volunteers at the
(53:22):
barn and rides horses.
Just keep following the littlethings.
And yeah, don't make it wrong,keep following the little things
.
And yeah, don't make it wrong,because that's just like Tony
Robbins also has this sayingstop shitting all over yourself
and shitting over everybody else.
Like, stop the shoulds.
Right, like I should be doingthis, I should be doing that and
(53:42):
they should be doing this.
Well, who are you?
How do you know?
Mary (53:48):
You're so not gonna be surprised about this.
I do many episodes.
The one that dropped today iscalled Stop Shooting All Over
Yourself.
I am not kidding you.
So talk about vibrationsconnecting.
That's just amazing.
And you're right, we have thisidea of what we should be doing
and all it does is stress us out.
So, yeah, so that's my.
(54:10):
That was my little under fiveminute mini episode from today.
Okay so circle.
Yeah, so can you tell us, andI'll put this again, I'll put in
the show notes Can you tell us?
Dr. Sue (54:21):
where to find you.
Yes, so the easiest way to findme is on my website,
drsuemccreadie.
com.
Mary (54:27):
Okay, sounds good, and there's the quiz on there and
they can find out from that.
It sort of leads them into sortof some options to work with
you, right.
Dr. Sue (54:37):
Yes, yes, exactly Exactly.
Take the quiz, it's fun.
It's true, it is fun, yeah.
Mary (54:43):
Take the quiz.
It's not a big long thing, it'sjust very fun and it's I think
it's a great starting point toexplore.
So beautiful.
Dr. Sue (54:50):
Thank you so much, Mary .
Mary (54:51):
Thank you for being here.
This has been a greatconversation and I just like I'm
going to go through my wholeday now feeling just like like
I'm taking up even more of myspace.
Put your, put your crown on,I'm gonna dig it out of the
closet, and I want to thankeveryone for listening.
Please forward this episode tosomeone that you know would love
(55:12):
listening and, until next time,go out into the world and be
the amazing, resilient, vibrantViolet that you are.
Thank you.
Welcome to no Shrinking Violence.
I'm your host, mary Rothwell,licensed therapist and certified
integrative mental healthpractitioner.
I've created a space where wecelebrate the intuition and
power of women who want to breakfree from limiting narratives.
We'll explore all realms ofwellness, what it means to take
up space unapologetically, andhow your essential nature is key
(00:28):
to living life on your terms.
It's time to own your space,trust your nature and flourish.
Let's dive in.
Hey, violets, welcome to theshow.
I have a few of those life isgood t-shirts.
One of them says science islike magic, but real.
(00:48):
I never really wear it anymorebecause I realized somewhere
along the way that I don'tnecessarily believe that science
and magic are mutuallyexclusive.
Okay, hear me out.
I think there are some of usthat automatically react to the
word magic as bad or assomething that is incompatible
with, maybe, religion or science.
I don't believe thatMerriam-Webster defines magic as
(01:12):
an extraordinary power orinfluence, seemingly from a
supernatural source.
Magic is somethingunexplainable, attributed to a
force we don't understand and,while some may disagree, isn't a
miracle.
In its essence, magic Isn'thaving faith, believing in
something we can't see.
To me, it's really semantics.
(01:34):
We can easily find accounts ofpeople who had incurable cancer,
only to survive for yearslonger than their prognosis said
they would.
They might attribute theirsurvival to prayer.
It's a miracle from God, butplenty of people who worship in
different ways or pray todifferent gods have the same
experience of survival.
I'm not necessarily saying itwas magic, but it was certainly
(01:56):
something less explainable, lessquantifiable than science.
My mind started down this pathbecause my guest today is a
medical doctor who supportswomen on their journey through
the application of science.
My mind started down this pathbecause my guest today is a
medical doctor who supportswomen on their journey through
the application of science andsometimes numerical tarot.
In my 35 years as a therapist,I can tell you that, while my
training didn't include aspiritual treatment plan, when
(02:18):
people can connect to a higherfrequency, they're often able to
move through issues that resistpurely science-based treatment.
I'm certainly notanti-medication, but I do know
that, because we are nature asmuch as plants and trees are, we
can heal from events andtraumas in ways that maybe we
can't imagine at first, untilwe're able to open the channels
(02:39):
and make it more clear.
Today I'm talking with SueMcCreadie.
Dr Sue is a holisticpediatrician and midlife
transformation expert who helpswomen in their 40s, 50s and 60s
navigate hormones, heartbreakand healing so they can stop
settling and start living withjoy.
Her mission to maketransformation simple, soulful
(03:00):
and even fun, because when womenrise, we raise the vibration of
the world for our children.
She believes every path isdivinely perfect, quirks are
sacred and joy is medicine, andI could not agree more.
Welcome to no Shrinking Violets, dr Sue.
Dr. Sue (03:16):
Wow, mary.
Oh my goodness, I could listento you for hours.
I'm glad you're writing a book.
Mary (03:24):
Oh, thank you
Dr. Sue (03:31):
I mean wow is all I have to say about that intro.
I get to listen to that 50times.
It's just such a validation forthe work I do, so thank you.
Mary (03:40):
You're welcome and I can't wait to dive in and learn more
about your work.
So could we start with youtelling us a little bit about
your own journey, like how didyou decide to meld your medical
training with your currentmission?
Dr. Sue (03:52):
Well, it was definitely an evolution and really, first
and foremost, I think theoverarching umbrella of it all
is following your joy, followingyour passion, following what
lights you up, even if it lookscrazy on the outside, because
often it does but you get, andalso you get to keep following
(04:14):
it.
So I became a medical doctor,in all honesty, because of my
mama.
She is 92.
No, no, 90.
At the age of this recordingshe's 90.
And when I was a child, growingup, she's an emergency room
nurse and back in the 80s, likeyou could take your kids to work
, including to the ER, likethere was no HIPAA laws or
(04:34):
anything like that.
So kids went to the ER too.
So I went to the emergency roomwith my mom and I just fell in
love with it.
I was like, wow, and I justfell in love with it.
I was like, wow, this is whereI get to really see what mom
does, and also like she'shelping people.
That's what I see, like thesepeople are helping people and
that feels really good.
(04:55):
I want to be.
I want to be a nurse mom.
And my mom if you're familiarwith the DIS profile she's a
very dominant, independentthinker.
I call them visionary mamas.
She's also really great atdetails and she was like be a
nurse, I mean, be a doctor,don't be a nurse, right?
(05:15):
And I was like wait, you know?
And her whole line of reasoningwas give the orders, don't take
the orders.
So as you can see herpersonality, she likes to give
the orders.
I honestly, I mean I'm gratefulfor that guidance.
It tells a lot about theinfluence we have on our kids,
because I never second guessedher.
I wasn't like, oh okay, I justsaid, all right, I'm going to be
a doctor.
(05:36):
And so off to the marches I wentand it was kind of a little bit
of a rough and tumble becominga doctor, because what I really
love are people and I lovehelping other people.
So my major was alwayspsychology.
I love human behavior and Iwasn't really into the science.
Mary, like to be honest, like Iguess, like you could say, I
was into the social sciences.
(05:56):
What you love is what I love,right, like I love behavior, I
love human psychology.
So when I went to into medschool I thought, well, I'll
become a psychiatrist.
Until I went on my psychiatryrotation and I was like, no
turns out in today's day and agein medicine, like I did not see
that that was going to be of mygreat of service to be in
(06:18):
psychiatry, and it did not fillmy soul at all.
Kids did, though.
When I went on the pediatricrotation, I was like, wow, kids
make me a better person period.
Like I just light up, I want tobe my best for them, I want to
show up every day for them, andthey're just like the light of
the world to me.
So I often march as I went tobecome a pediatrician, and when
(06:40):
I finished my training, Idecided to stay on an extra year
as the pediatric chief resident, which meant that, like I had
another year to figure out whatI get to do and also teach which
I love teaching and so it gaveme the kind of the space and
grace to figure out what, wheream I going to go within
(07:01):
pediatrics?
And so I actually, right afterthat year, launched my own
pediatric practice, which iskind of like unheard of in this
day and age, yeah, and even 20years ago it was definitely, and
I think a lot of my mentorswere like wow, she's jumping off
a cliff into death, like theydid not see how this was going
(07:21):
to work.
However, one did and she wasgreat.
She was like this is awesome, Ithink this is great, like flap
your wings and go, and I did,and within a couple of years I
had my oldest daughter, and thatclarity of having my daughter
(07:43):
is really and she's right there,she's like over my shoulder.
She gave me such crystalclarity about not wasting a
minute of my time doingsomething that didn't really
light up my soul, and at thetime she was born, I was still
doing primary care pediatrics,because that's what I was
trained to do is to be a primarycare pediatrician and also,
though it wasn't really lightingup my soul, what lights up my
(08:04):
soul is really helping childrenheal from the inside out.
So I pivoted my practice andthat's what I've been doing, for
I'm now in my 23rd year ofpractice of helping kids heal
nutritionally.
Nutrition is my focus, so somewould think of me as, like a
functional medical doctor iswhat we call them Back then we
didn't have a name for it.
It's just like what I chose.
(08:25):
But how I got to here, in termsof helping women navigate their
40s, 50s and 60s and sustainhappiness despite all the
curveballs that are thrown ourway midlife is by figuring out
like is a kind of a twisty turnypath of moms in my practice
come and say, well, how can youhelp me?
(08:45):
Right, and initially I thought,oh, you want me to be your
functional medical doctor?
And I was like, oh, thatdoesn't fit, so sorry, I cannot
do that.
So I tried different versionsof it, you know, and ultimately
I like started and stopped a fewdifferent entrepreneurial
businesses supporting women, andthe last one was coaching which
(09:06):
cracks me up, mary, because Ihired a coach to figure this
whole thing out a decade ago andI said all I know is I don't
want to be you coaching.
A decade later, I turn aroundand be like I am you coaching.
So yeah, it's been a beautifulride and I would say the
ultimate theme is just likefollowing the breadcrumbs right,
(09:28):
like they don't always make alot of sense when you're
following them, but ultimatelyyou start to put the pieces.
Mary (09:36):
You there, okay.
First of all, I want tohighlight the fact that it was
your mom that said don't be anurse, be a doctor, and it goes
to the whole thing about, youknow, this idea of socialized
scripts that typically menpursue medical school and women
(09:56):
pursue nursing school and not todownplay anybody that is a
nurse, Because it is one of theanything physical.
Give me a mental illness above aphysical illness any day of the
week and the hard work thatbecause I worked at colleges
where we train nurses and I knowhow hard it is.
Those rotations are very, veryhard so I truly admire it.
(10:17):
But I think giving you thatmessage that you can go in
whatever direction you want tois so empowering.
Dr. Sue (10:25):
It is.
I agree with you too, becauseat first, when I say that that's
the truth of what was said,that's what I remember.
And I never want to take that aslike I can honor the ground
where nurses walk on.
Yes, whenever I've been apatient, it's the nurses that
you fall in love with, it's thenurses that are the bridge right
(10:45):
.
They're like, literally, you'vegot them on each arm, like okay
, we're walking right.
So, yes, and I agree, and I dobelieve like it really was her
expanding my viewpoint right,because in her day and age, you,
there weren't really femaledoctors, like it was.
You're going to be a nurse oryou're going to be a teacher.
Those were like the two primarypathways for careers.
Mary (11:04):
Yes, yeah, and I also like the idea that you tried
different things and you know, Ithink people have an idea that
success is linear and it's notlinear.
There's a lot of you have to godown paths and you know that
idea of we think of failure.
It's not failure, it's, it's alearning experience, because
that's really if everythingalways worked out, what would
(11:27):
you learn?
So I like, too, that you wereexploring that.
So here's what came to mindwhen I read your information for
a while, because I did sort ofthe same thing as you and I
actually I'm now certified infunctional nutrition.
So I think that is so powerful.
And I wanted to add that to myyou know my license in therapy,
because we're a whole being.
(11:48):
You know we're not just fromthe makeup.
But I was sort of working inthat period of to post
menopausal space and even in theyear or two I was doing that,
it started to be so much louderand more confusing.
Confusing and so many likemessages out there that simplify
(12:08):
things.
And you know, I think we're asociety that we want something
that like give me a pill.
We've been trained to think itshould be fast.
Nutrition's not fast.
All of the things that I saw onyour website.
They're not fast.
So tell me how that's been foryou to, because it's just
getting, I think, because it'shaving a moment which it should,
(12:29):
I think everybody's kind oflike.
I think I'll focus on thisbecause there's so many women
going into menopause becomingaware that they don't have to
stay silent, and there's waymore layers to this.
So what has been yourexperience in working with this?
How has that been for you?
Dr. Sue (12:50):
I would agree and I think that's why I've chosen not
like I.
I agree with the fact that it'snot simple, it's not easy and I
feel like that's why I chosenot to focus on women's health
and physical health, because Iwas like, wow, this is a lot
going on here and it is in kidsand chronic health, kids
(13:11):
situations too.
However, I just feel likethat's like I don't know I get
to unravel that ball.
It seems a lot easier to me.
So that was kind of like thefirst pivot of just honoring
like wow, there are a lot ofphysiological changes happening
in a woman's life in her forties, fifties and sixties, and I
think of hormone, I think oflike midlife or menopause.
Perimenopause is really likesecond adolescence, right, so it
(13:35):
allows people who maybe aren'tat the stage in life, or maybe
for your kids Cause that's how Iexplained to my kids I was like
remember, like when you firststarted shooting out all those
hormones and like your bodyfeels so uncomfy, like you no
longer even feel physicallynormal in your body because it's
shifting and your identity ischanging, right, like you think
of adolescents are declaringthemselves, they're figuring out
(13:56):
who they are in the world, andI figure like midlife is the
same way.
It's like who am I now if I'mnot raising these kids?
Who am I now if I'm no longeryou know, someday I won't be a
doctor anymore Like, well then,who am I?
Right?
So you have these identitychanges.
You have a lot of relationshipchanges, including with your
kids.
If you have kids, yourrelationship changes because
they're no longer, like,dependent on you.
(14:16):
Like we just went through, likemoving to college kids and
one's a senior ones is startingher freshman year and, like the
seniors, like old hat, okay, wegot this, like away, you go, you
know.
And this middle one, it waslike, oh my gosh, there's like
this big gaping hole in our homeright now because she's not
here, right?
So you go through all thesechanges of like yay, I'm so
(14:37):
happy for you and oh, this feelsso different.
And so all these changes arehappening.
And what I love about that andcoming back to like how, how,
what I've chosen to focus onthis area for women in their 40s
and 60s is like how do wenavigate that and still feel
happy in the process?
(14:58):
Like how do we sustainhappiness even if our body's
changing all of a sudden?
My skirt doesn't fit like itused to, and that makes me sad.
How do we flip that into what'sgreat about this is right?
And so, using all these youknow personal development
frameworks that I've learnedalong the way in terms of
shifting and flipping the script?
(15:19):
Or like I just you know, eventhis morning I had a client
where she's got a new physicalsymptom right and she's a
licensed professional in health,so she immediately goes to I've
got cancer right, like I alwaysstart out, like isn't it funny
we just we focus and we just goto like worst case scenario
(15:41):
right, and then we just start ohmy gosh, I'm gonna die before
my kids and I'm not going to behere to see the grandkids.
Like we just start oh my gosh,I'm gonna die before my kids and
I'm not gonna be here to seethe grand.
Like we just create all thesescenarios and so really like
kind of piecing apart like whatis that really right?
And absolutely doing thestrategy of like okay, ask for
help, find the clinician, dosome testing right, like the
practical, which I think is theeasier part.
(16:03):
The harder part is wrangling ourmind like lassoing it in to
focus on what's going right.
What's great about this isyou're paying attention to your
body.
What's great about this issymptoms are a sign of something
shifting.
What's great about this is welive in America, where we have
great health care.
What's great about this isright, so starting to stack all
(16:24):
the good things you know for herto focus on.
So I there's just somethingabout that that feels, like you
said for my mom, like soempowering.
I feel like that's what I'mdoing is just like helping women
, like okay, this is happening,and yet still this how we can
move forward in an empowered way.
Mary (16:44):
Yeah, and when those shifts happen physically, I mean
so much for women is a focus onwhat do we look like?
And that's so much of thatnarrative, that social narrative
you have worth.
Depending what you look likeand as those things shift, then
it is sort of this okay, myidentity, that's a huge thing
(17:07):
because your identity changes.
But the other thing that Ithink that your approach also
addresses is, as we go throughlife and we do our thing, we
establish our career, we raiseour kids we're having traumatic
experiences, and it doesn't needto be big, sweeping trauma.
But when we have any loss welose a pet, or a relationship
(17:30):
ends, we get remarried, or wethought we were going to get
married, or you know or we losea job we love, or we even change
jobs all of those lossesaccumulate in our body.
And so I feel like you know, Ihad a friend of mine call it the
second spring when we gothrough menopause, and to me as
a gardener that is so beautifulbecause we do have tremendous
(17:51):
hormonal shifts that we can't doanything about.
But what we can do somethingabout is exactly what you're
saying our mindset, how we frameit and start to take the time
for ourselves to look at.
What have I really been through, that I never took the time to
examine and find a place for inmy heart, and all of those
things which I think that lightsme up Like I love that being
(18:15):
able to assist, because that'swhat my private practice is.
It's really women in the exactage range you're talking about
and I just I love that they'refinally able to take time for
themselves and look at thosethings.
Dr. Sue (18:27):
That's so beautiful.
I love your garden analogy.
I often use a garden foranalogy, for gut health, yes,
yeah, but, as you were talkingabout, because that's what I do
in kids, as you were talking now, I was like, isn't that what
we're doing?
I'm really helping them, like,pull the weeds in the garden so
more flowers can grow and reallyfocus on growing the flowers,
(18:50):
right, and just consistentlypulling the weeds, and I feel
like the weeds are traumas, bigor little, you know, which is
just the state of our nervoussystem going through different
changes that were presented within life and sort of figuring
out how can I shift theperspective on what quote
unquote happened to me.
(19:11):
So I see it as happening for meor for the greater good, Right,
and I feel like that shift inperspective is what, yeah,
really catapults forward for usto, like you know, grow a
beautiful garden.
Mary (19:23):
Yeah, okay, I'm going to take the side street that I
teased in my intro.
Tell us about numerical tarot.
Now, I've had my tarot cards,read the numerical part I don't
quite get, but I'm sure there'speople listening that really
don't have any idea.
So can you give us a foundation?
And then, how do you use thatwith women?
Dr. Sue (19:45):
don't have any idea.
So can you give us a foundation?
And then, how do you use thatwith women?
Okay, beautiful, I'll firststart before I give the
foundation is like how did Ieven stumble upon this?
Because it does follow the sameframe of reference that I
introduced at the beginning,which is I just followed my
heart and we, my husband and I,were on a getaway weekend in
Asheville, north Carolina.
We were just strolling thestreets, walking into the stores
and one store I walk into.
(20:06):
It was like Christmas, it wasjust bursting for me and I was
walking around the store.
I was just drawn to this backright corner where I was like
particularly to this deck ofcards.
It was like just this energeticpull of like.
I picked them up.
I'm like I don't even know whatthis is.
It says tarot.
I've heard that word before.
I'm not sure what exactly thatis, but I get to have this deck
(20:27):
of cards, is what I said.
So then I got home and I havethis deck of cards and I'm like
well, what do I do with this,you know?
And since I'm a learner and Ilove learning, I just found, you
know, I found a teacher.
I found a teacher and learnedmore about it's purcled in.
(20:49):
So tarot for those of you whohave never heard this word,
tarot is basically used to be adeck of playing cards back in,
like, I think, the 1500s or so,and it was just like you play
with these cards, like now weplay with a 52 card deck, like
they played with these tarotcards.
Right and through time andevolution, people have used them
in different ways and I'llshare how I'm going to, how I
(21:10):
use them.
Numerology is the study ofnumbers.
Numbers have patterns and Ihave always seen like different
number patterns for a couple,like a few decades now actually,
where I would see like a one,one, one, and then a two, two,
two and then a five, five, five.
And I was like what is going onhere?
So that I was introduced tolike angel numbers or messages.
(21:32):
And it really came into my lifewhen I was having multiple
miscarriages and it felt so likeGod.
It just felt like God speakingto me.
It felt like someone was seeingmy pain and like giving me
purpose.
It felt like someone was likejust keep going, so I would just
get these little breadcrumbsand they were just life giving
to me.
So I started to notice thepattern and write down little
(21:54):
messages and kind of take notes.
I feel like they're like littleGod winks, you know, like you
look at a license plate and it'slike pops up.
So just kind of putting thosethings together was the first
time I thought about numbers.
But more recently, around thistime of tarot, I learned that
there's a whole study callednumerology that I had never
heard of, which is studies ofnumbers and and all different
(22:16):
ways of doing that.
Pythagoras is one of them.
You know Pythagorean, likewe've heard from math in terms
of practical, but he actuallyused to have a school that
incorporated the studies ofnumbers and that numbers carry
energies in themselves, right,which makes sense because really
in quantum physics, likeeverything is energy.
The desk right here is energy,is just more solid than than the
(22:37):
air, right?
So I was like okay, and since Iwas learning them at the same
time, I started just blendingthe two together, because, tarot
, these cards have numbers onthem, and so I started looking
at how the two go together.
Now, how I use them.
I use them like a psychologistor a therapist or, you know,
(23:01):
psychiatrists may use what wecall the inkblot, right, where
it's that white piece of paperwith black on it, and then they
say look at it, what do you see?
Right?
Yeah, and the idea is that weall see a little something
different.
Something else pops up and andI look at that as like a
connection to the subconscious,because in personal development,
(23:23):
we've learned that our currentbehaviors and habits and
therefore results right, whatwe're currently experiencing
right now is from drivenprimarily more so from our
subconscious thoughts and oursubconscious feelings and our
(23:44):
subconscious limiting beliefsand our subconscious or
empowering beliefs too, likesubconscious beliefs and rules
right.
And so when we're looking toget different results, whether
that's in our health, ourrelationships or our, you know,
work or mission in the world, weget to uncover those deeper
(24:05):
roots which are the subconsciousyou know beliefs and and rules
and and thoughts and things thatwe don't even think about on a
conscious level, right.
And so I started realizing likewow, this is just a great tool
for me to connect to the personsubconscious, like she's doing
the work for me in essence,right.
(24:28):
So I look at it as like that'sthat if I had, like, a doctor's
bag, that's my doctor's bag.
That's, that's the tool likeI'm using in coaching.
Instead of a stethoscope, I amusing tarot cards, and not with
everyone, because some people,just the way that they, you know
, their dogma what they'reworking with, like one of the
(24:48):
clients that I was working withthis morning.
She's Catholic, you know, andso this in her world is not
important, right?
What's important is myrelationship with God and source
, and she reads the Bible everyday and I honor all pathways to
God, right, all pathways tosource, all pathways to universe
.
It's like whatever lights youup and keeps you moving forward
(25:09):
on the straight and narrow path,and fun path is great and
that's the big thing I see withtarot too, is that it is fun.
So part of the principle of itis like we're all born on a
certain date, like I was born onMarch 8th 1972.
So if you add up three pluseight plus one plus nine, plus
seven plus two, you get 30, andthree plus zero is three.
(25:34):
So we can all reduce our birthdates to a number that's between
one and nine and thosecorrespond to a tarot card
because they're numbered onethrough nine.
So like when I'm a number three, I don't know if.
Do you know what you are, mary,if you add up your birth?
date have you ever done thatbefore?
Mary (25:53):
No, but we can do it.
Dr. Sue (25:54):
Okay, let's do that.
Let's see.
By the way, don't even think Ido this in my head anymore,
because I get my handy dandycalculator.
(26:30):
Yes.
So this is fun, okay.
So two in the tarot is the highpriestess and three in the
tarot is the Empress.
So you're two, I'm a three Ialways think of like this is fun
because the high priestess isshe's got a big old direct
funnel to source.
(26:51):
She's very, very intuitive.
She's very connected to sourceor god or universe, however you
see it, she, um, yeah, and she's, I think of her like if the
feminine has like a masculine,it's like a feminine entity has
kind of a masculine and feminine.
She's a little bit morefeminine, she's a little more
intellect, right, the highpriestess would be kind of more
(27:15):
of the empath of the feminine.
So she's like the mother of allmothers.
So she's like in her, you know,queendom, in her garden she's
always birthing something youknow.
She's really creative, yeah,and she's into love and beauty,
like love is, you know, herdriving force.
But she's like the mother ofall mothers, right, and?
(27:36):
And so that's where I show,like if I was in a client
session and I was with you, mary, I'd show you the high
priestess.
When you see the high priestess,you're just like wow, like it,
just it connects, you'll connectwith certain parts of it, right
, and like, when I see theEmpressress, I just always
connect with her pregnant belly.
(27:57):
You know it's like no wonder Ifocus on mothers and kids.
I'm an empress, you know, likethat makes perfect sense.
That career path for me and sothat's what it brought to me is
like more of an understanding,you know, more of a.
And these are all archetypes,like, yes, I have the high
priestess within me too.
I get to activate her, I get toturn her up Right, and, and so,
(28:20):
you know, we all have thesedifferent archetypes, which are
just patterns of behavior, youknow.
And when we start to activatethem, you know that's when we
start to hear, like, sometimes Ijust need to hear what the high
priestess has to say on thismatter, right, yeah, sometimes I
just need to plug into mycreativity, and a big thing with
the Empress is learning how toreceive right, like learning how
(28:44):
to be receptive rather thanalways the giver Right.
So, yeah, that's kind of how Iplay with it.
Mary (28:53):
Wow, thanks for doing that .
I of how I I play with it.
Wow, thanks for doing that.
I already feel like I'm sittinga little taller.
Dr. Sue (29:03):
Just you saying I'm like high priestess, I'm like,
oh, I love that, yeah.
And one of the things like, didyou say I've already lost it on
my calendar?
Did you say you're?
Did you say you're January 23rd, right, your?
Did you say your January 23rd,right, yeah?
So so two plus three is five,and five is the hero event,
which I had never heard thatword before.
But it's like a teacher, it's astudent and a teacher, which I
(29:24):
see a lot in your, in your pathso far, right, of not only
learning more information, butalso like being able to share
that, being able to teach that,like whether it's through your
practice or your book, right.
And so another big number forus is the actual day we were
born on.
So if you're, you know, ifyou're a high priestess and
(29:45):
number five, that would be thefifth, the 14th or the 23rd of a
month, right?
So, yeah, it's just likethere's patterns and to me, the
whole reason I like numerologyand playing with tarot and
archetypes is because I lovehuman behavior.
I've known that from thebeginning.
I also with patterns.
A big part of personaldevelopment is see the pattern
(30:09):
and use the pattern.
Instead of the pattern, usingyou so you can create a new
pattern.
So to me, it's just like when Iknew that there was a study of
numerology and that there'sthese patterns happening.
Like we're at the year 2025,two plus two plus five is nine.
We're in a hierophant year.
And now, like I just startedbeing like how can I use this
information so that I'm workingwith it instead of feeling like
(30:33):
rough and tumbled by it?
Right, which I think is a lotof what astrology is.
Like it's not predetermineddestiny.
Like I believe we're bornconscious with free will.
It's just like can we use thisinformation to become a little
bit more enlightened as we'regoing through this growth
process, right, and so sometimesit can feel super supportive
and, like you said, kind ofstand a little taller, you know,
(30:56):
and just understand a littlebit more about ourselves and
more about others and, yeah,what we're going through.
Mary (31:03):
Yeah, I talk a lot about limiting narratives, especially
with women, and I think this Icould see it being a really
powerful tool to give thempermission to explore something
that maybe they have a senseabout, and this is what I when I
talk about essential nature.
We all, as kids, I think, knowwho and what we are and what we
(31:23):
love, and then, as ourenvironment happens, we have to
survive our environment and thento come back around to be able
to figure out who are we really,because I would always go to
the woods when I was a kid Iwould go into the forest and I
loved that and I read books thatusually about fantasy stuff,
and so later, you know, you growup, girls hit middle school and
(31:45):
the things you don't climbtrees because you're not.
You know you don't do all ofthose things anymore because
it's then you're a weirdo.
You know you don't do all ofthose things anymore because
then you're a weirdo.
So I think, as we connect backto that, I think as adult women,
especially in this age we'vebeen talking about, you know you
have this sense in.
What I sense from you is justnot only confidence, but just
(32:09):
you expand people and I thinkeven just hearing you observe
that for somebody can be thatpowerful permission for a woman
to say, well, I never reallythought of myself as a high
priestess, but tell me more.
And then I think you start toopen up to that because you know
, so often we reflect what wethink others believe us to be.
(32:34):
And when somebody believes thatyou have certain things and I
love the other side of it toolike where might that be a
drawback for your life?
Because nothing is ever 100%positive, right?
And so also embracing thatshadow part of ourselves, like
what are the things that I mightcringe at or be embarrassed,
and how can I use them as astrength?
(32:57):
So that was a lot I just kindof tossed out there, but I just
that's.
Dr. Sue (33:00):
I love what I heard is limiting narrative Love that I
also heard.
What I do is expand, likeexpand possibilities and
expansion is a big word thatdescribes a three.
Just think of it like one plusone right Of a mom and a dad or
two partners coming together.
(33:21):
Creating a third like a family,is expansion, you know?
Yeah, so one plus one doesn'tequal two, like it's three.
You're creating like a wholethird entity.
Mary (33:41):
Anyways, yeah, that's really fun.
I love that.
Yeah, so there was something Iwanted to ask about.
Let me look here.
Okay, so I think sometimes andthis is a little stereotypical,
but I think sometimes women gothrough into this stage of life,
this sort of middle stage, andthey may continue to have done
some things in the context oftheir marriage or their
(34:01):
partnership or their family, andit's not comfortable, but they
keep doing it because they'renot sure how to, like, move out
of that.
So what I've heard sometimesfrom women is how do I move into
this new space or be thisdifferent type of person?
Like, let's say, you've beenmarried for 15 years or 20 years
(34:23):
?
And all of a sudden you'rethinking I want to go in this
different direction.
What is my partner going tothink or how's it going to
impact my family?
So is that something that comesup in your work, and how would
you help a woman sort of movethrough that that worry or that
concern?
Dr. Sue (34:40):
So am I hearing the question correctly of, like
something's shifting,something's changing, and how do
I get more comfortable withbeing in that change?
Mary (34:51):
Yeah, and sort of the idea of how does a woman's personal
growth impact her family and ifshe has a concern.
Dr. Sue (34:56):
Oh, my goodness.
Mary (34:57):
Yeah, impact impacting her family impact Cause I think we
tend to think it's going to be anegative.
People aren't going to like it.
Oh, so I think of it as maybepeople might be a little
uncomfortable in the beginning,but I think that growth can only
be positive.
But I'm curious about yourthought on that.
Dr. Sue (35:17):
This brings up a lot of well.
First of all, it brings up afunny client story that I was
helping.
Again, I only work with women,so I'm only working with, like
one side of the dance.
This person happened to bemarried in a relationship that
experienced infidelity.
So let's say there's takes twoto tango and at one time the
(35:40):
person that I wasn't coachingwas like is this going like this
personal development you knowcause I'm working in the women
who's like personally developing?
And you know she was married toher, you know, and it's still
married to her husband.
And he was like is this likehonestly?
At one point he's like I thinkthis is going to kill us, like
(36:01):
this is going to be the end ofus, right, you know, and it is
kind of like navigating somereally uncomfy waters and I feel
like that's really a part of mybig life contract is I'm there
for the transitions, right?
And this particular couple hadexperienced infidelity in the
relationship and was really likereally rocky and then would get
stable and then would likereally get rocky again, and it
(36:23):
was all about like perspectiveand understanding, like what
does this mean?
And like how, how do we moveforward with this sacred, broken
contract, in essence, right,and so anyways, I'm laughing
because at that point that wassomewhere in the middle, like
maybe like a third to maybe likealmost to the halfway point.
By the last time I met withthis woman because we only
(36:46):
worked together for like sixmonths it was pretty amazing.
He was popping his head in hey,dr Sue, how are you?
I was like, oh my gosh, you.
And so I think that's like casein point of one of the things
that my one of my big mentors,who's taught me a lot about
(37:07):
personal development is TonyRobbins, and one of the things
that he says is the quality ofyour life is determined by the
amount of uncertainty you cancomfortably handle.
Mary (37:22):
Yeah.
Dr. Sue (37:22):
The quality of your life is determined by the amount
of uncertainty you cancomfortably handle, and so me
kind of popping into their tosome equation was massive
uncertainty.
I would say more so for thehusband than it was even for the
woman.
Yeah, and so they.
(37:45):
They navigated it, though Causewe it always takes two to tango
and that's why people arealways like how's this going to
work If husband's not here or mypartner's not here?
You know, and always like youchange.
They have to change becauseit's a relationship one doesn't
you know.
And I think that's why it's sointeresting, because what I
heard the second time yourelated to the question is that
(38:05):
some women are they afraid tolike, develop themselves because
they feel like they're going torock the boat too much and the
risk is someone will leave me.
Usually I'll be.
It's a loss that they, theyforesee a loss happening.
My experience for myself, goingthrough this process for myself
(38:26):
I can just speak for myself.
It has brought me nothing butmore, more connection with my
husband, more connection with mychildren, more connection with
my patients and my clients.
My personal development, like Iwas talking about.
I'm a pediatrician.
I've never read a parentingbook.
I'm a mother of three.
I've never read a parentingbook.
(38:47):
I just feel like relationshipsare a reflection, like a mirror,
right, life's just a mirrorreflecting our unease with
ourselves.
And so when we, the more wework on ourselves, you know, the
more and our relationships, youknow, expand, and I do think
(39:08):
that that it can lead toconscious uncoupling, if that
makes sense, like we can havepersonal development where we
come to a point in understandingwhich I navigated one of my
daughters through, that right.
It's like, unfortunately, thisperson, you're meeting their top
two needs.
Like you're meeting their needsand they're not meeting yours.
(39:31):
So they're never going anywhere, sweetheart, they're going to
stick around forever becauseyou're meeting their needs and
they're not meeting yours.
So they're never going anywhere, sweetheart, they're going to
stick around forever becauseyou're meeting their needs, you
know.
But if they're not meeting yourneeds, that's when you're going
to get to say like this justisn't working for me, I love you
and also this is over, you know.
So I think, doing it in aconscious way, rather than
saying there's something wrongwith you, I'm leaving because of
(39:52):
you, it's like, oh, I totallyown this.
Like I have these needs.
You're not meeting them, youknow, and I know you're you're
trying to and it's just notworking Right.
And we've tried to do this andwork together.
And also, this isn't working,so you can consciously uncouple
that way.
That makes sense.
Mary (40:10):
Oh yeah, for sure.
I think there's a lot of fearthat comes in because fear of
being alone or fear of startingto be too much, because that is
one of the narratives as women,don't be too much, stay small,
play it safe.
And as we explore ourselves andwhat we really want and do this
(40:31):
thing you know we talked aboutexpanding.
That is something I talk aboutall the time take up your space.
But I think part of taking upyour space means you use your
voice, you give your opinion,you might make choices that you
hadn't made in the past, and Ithink there's always fear
because, like you mentioned, ifsomeone doesn't like it, if we
(40:53):
have been conditioned to do thething that pleases people and
we're no longer doing that, it'salso arriving at the space to
be able to say but it's rightfor me and that makes it okay.
Dr. Sue (41:08):
And I think I don't know what your experience is,
but my experience is dependingon your personality type and
again, we all carry all types ofpersonalities.
Personalities, again, arepatterns of behavior but we kind
of have different set pointsand you know, that's why on my
website I have a quiz todiscover your I call them mama
(41:30):
types your midlife personalitytype.
And to me, some of the thingsthat you're bringing up right
now, mary, are very common forwhat I call the giver, mamas of
the world.
So like one personality typelike is a visionary.
Visionary is like I think ofher, like the Beyonce's of the
world, like the Gwyneth Paltrow,so just like I'm here, you got
(41:51):
a problem with it, that's yourproblem.
Like I'm going this way, getout of my way, you know.
And we look to them becausethey're so confident, they're so
just own it, they just so sayit how it is.
And we're just like can I havea piece of that?
Like how does she do that?
Right?
And like you said, every upsidehas its downside.
(42:12):
So I would say the downside ofa visionary mama is like she can
really bowl over people in herway.
So relationships can be alittle tricky for her, you know,
sometimes it's really hard forher to intimately like into me.
You see, like intimacy,vulnerability, like really
allowing others to see herweaknesses, can be very
challenging for her.
(42:34):
The inspirational mama is theone who's like sunshine.
You know she's the energy inthe room, she's the one you go
to because she's always going tohave silver lining every crappy
situation that's going on inyour life, right.
And the downside is she can getreally distracted.
Shiny objects are everywhere.
I want this and that and this.
(42:57):
You know it diffuses her energy, right.
The giver mama, like you werementioning, can very much be
more like the upside of thegiver mama.
Oh, my gosh, she's a giver Like.
She's a woman who, just likeshe's the natural mama inside
all of us, like, come to me, getinside my womb If you need to,
like, let me just take care ofyou, let me hold you, Let me
listen to you.
(43:17):
She's an incredible soul andthe heart.
The downside for her is she canbecome, you know, kind of a
doormat.
You know, like boundaries areproblems.
She can become a real peoplepleaser, like doing everything
for everyone else, and shebecomes last and leads to
feelings like resentfulness andbitterness, right, and then the
(43:38):
last is a detailed mama who islike dotting our I's, crossing
our T's.
She's proofreading your papers,you know, like you read it 500
times and she sees like youmissed that and we look to her
to keep us organized and on set.
She'll come over to your houseand organize your cabinets and
it fills her up, you know.
(43:58):
And the the downside of the ofthe detail mama could be that
like life can get a little dry,like loosen it up, allow some
more spontaneous spontaneity tocome through right.
So I I say that all to describethat the tendencies that I most
run into for women that Ipersonally work with are
(44:19):
definitely more of like thegiver variety, where I'm
depleted, I'm depressed, I'moverwhelmed, I'm bitter, like
why am I always doing all thethings right?
She's contorting herself in alldifferent ways, including just
getting smaller, staying silent,saying nothing Right, and just
(44:41):
like thinking if I just getsmall enough, won't that be
enough for them.
You know.
Mary (44:47):
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Sue (44:49):
So, yes, I see a lot of that, and I think that's why,
I'm sure, in your work too, likewe talk so much about
boundaries, where I end and youbegin, and I think that's the
beauty of like.
I work with group coaching too,and I think that's the beauty
of like, if you have a visionaryand a giver in the same, you
know they're going to callforward each other.
(45:09):
They're going to be like girl,you've got this, like stand up,
pull those bootstraps up.
You know, and others will belike I think you need to sauce
it a little bit.
Oh, let us into you a littlebit more.
And so I love that collectively, we can call each other forward
as women.
(45:29):
It feels super safe, you know,because we're in, like a safety,
safe space.
Mary (45:36):
I think women's circles and women's groups are really
powerful in that way Becauseunfortunately sometimes we're
set up to be competitors.
That's happens on social mediaand I hate it, but I think when
you actually bring womentogether, especially if you're
in a physical shared space, Ithink that I've seen that be
really life-changing, even in ashort time, because we do have
(45:59):
such power to support each otherand help everybody know like
they're okay.
You're okay just as you are.
Here's my experience.
I went through this thingbecause you can also feel like
nobody else is feeling like this.
It has to just be me.
So that's what I love about ittoo you reflecting back to each
other.
You know what you're seeing,the beauty of what you're seeing
(46:21):
.
So I imagine women arelistening right now and feeling
this sort of call to expand intothese kinds of ways that we're
talking about.
And I know that you do haveyour quiz, which I took, and do
you want to take a guess?
It ended up, unfortunately, inmy promotions tab and I didn't
(46:44):
see it.
I could only skim it, but Iknow what I am, so I want to see
if you can get.
Dr. Sue (46:49):
Okay, what I see in you , what comes forward to me in
you, is definitely a giver mamaand a detail mama.
That's what I see in you.
What did it say?
Mary (47:00):
Detail.
Dr. Sue (47:01):
Detail.
Mary (47:02):
Yeah, so I have to read more.
I have to read more about that.
Because when you said I thinkit's also this part of my life,
because when you said bringingin more spontaneity right now,
trying to build a business, thatpart is because you don't want
to miss something or you don't.
You know, I feel like I have somany irons in the fire and I
like when I look away from one,I'm like, oh, I have to look
over here.
(47:22):
And so I am very detailoriented, which is not typical.
I am detail-oriented, but myenergy, I think, is more kind of
being about connecting topeople, and it's also when
you're working for yourself.
I do miss the energy of people.
You know being with a team oftherapists or you know, a team
(47:43):
with a shared mission of helpingyoung people.
I really, really miss that.
So I think that's what I'vebeen feeling like I need to sort
of move more back towardsomething where I can connect
with people and create impactlike that, instead of just sort
of sitting by myself each dayand trying to figure out, like
(48:03):
what is the next step.
Dr. Sue (48:05):
That's beautiful.
I love that and and I would saylike a lot of times you know
you can see your personalitythrough your career path.
Like to me, a therapist is likea giver mama, until she's
proven otherwise, because youspend your life listening to
people, right, and like you'rejust yeah, so I think that's
(48:29):
awesome, awesome.
I and I think like how you canuse this quiz is like you see
your gifts and then you kind ofsee your challenges and what I'm
hearing like it's life is feels.
I mean like you could bringmore fun in.
The fun factor for you seems tobe more about connection, like
getting that connection that youexperienced as a therapist with
(48:52):
the people and and also, youknow, probably colleagues as
well, as what I hear.
Yeah, so that's beautiful.
That's like a beautiful way touse the quiz.
It's so many ways you could usethe quiz.
You can reflect on it just inyour personal life, your
professional life.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
Mary (49:07):
Well, it's also a beautiful quiz to take the
picture, so I encourageeverybody.
Dr. Sue (49:11):
You know we'll.
Mary (49:11):
I'll put a link in the show notes to your website,
because I also love that as soonas you go to your website, it's
there and it pulls you in anddo this because it's a great
starting place.
So, in general, if somebody'sthinking, okay, how do I bring
more of this into your life?
Obviously you're a startingpoint.
Right, you mentioned you haveyour coaching, you have your at
least quiz to give a startingpoint.
(49:31):
But there are there.
Could you give like maybe threethings just in life that you
could start to because I knowyou talked about noticing
numbers, or are there any waysthat people can, or women can,
start to maybe?
I see it as kind of looseningup and starting to tune into
something that would make someshifts for them.
Dr. Sue (49:54):
Okay, I'm listening, mary, because I know like, wow,
that sounds like something thehigh priestess may say.
I feel you like connecting withsomething that's beyond
yourself, right, and maybe it'sjust the overarching theme of
what we've talked about already.
Like, what about just followingthe breadcrumbs?
Like, if you want to take thatart class, go take the art class
(50:16):
.
Like, don't have to justify oflike, what is this leading to
nothing?
You don't know.
You could be sitting down nextto your next best friend at the
art class.
You could shift your perspectivein the art class on something
totally unrelated to art,because when you're in art, it's
like connecting to yoursubconscious, right.
(50:37):
So I feel like just followingthe breadcrumbs, following what
feels fun, following what lightsyou up, like the garden for you
, mary, is always a place I feelof like cultivating your soul
is just being in the garden.
Your soul is just being in thegarden, you know.
So, yeah, does that make sense?
Like I think that's really likewhat leads us to really get a
(51:00):
shift outside of ourselves is tokeep following the breadcrumbs.
You know, like I followed, Ijust picked up the tarot.
I was like I don't know, Idon't get it, I don't understand
yet, but I do know that this islighting up my soul, so I'm
going to figure, just take it,figure it out and take the next
thing right.
That's kind of how I look at it.
Mary (51:20):
And don't just say no when you don't understand it.
Let it be an option, because Ithink we sometimes think we
often need a reason, like I'mdoing this because you don't,
and I recently heard this idea.
The same friend that talkedabout second spring started to
use this word liminal space.
And it's this space where wedon't yet know we're just kind
(51:44):
of figuring it out and we don'tknow the destination.
And I think that's so coolbecause we feel like we have to
run through that space.
It's like this empty space andit's like sometimes you can
exist there.
It's kind of what you talkedabout with the couple it's when
you don't know what's going tohappen.
It's really.
It can be very unnervingbecause we like to know what's
(52:08):
happening.
But I think that sense ofadventure or exploration, or
just kind of let it be an optionand you don't have to decide,
just like you're saying, go withthe next thing, you know,
follow the next crumb and belike, oh, this might be cool and
maybe it won't end up beinganything, but it's gonna take me
(52:29):
then to the next thing.
So I think that's a great placeto start.
I think if somebody reallywants to start to expand the
ways we've been talking about,yeah, don't make it wrong.
Dr. Sue (52:40):
You bring another client to mind for me and she is
in her 40s.
She is single, she's kind ofbetween career, she's just not
quite landing it.
You know, like she feels so off, like she's behind.
Why doesn't she have a family?
Why does she have kids?
Like, why doesn't she know whatthey she's supposed to be doing
?
Yet, right, like how could Ihave gotten this far in life?
(53:01):
And still I'm like, yeah, and Ifeel like that's exactly where
she is.
She just gets to hang out in theunknown and the uncertainty and
keep following the littlebreadcrumbs which for her.
She loves animals, right, soshe's of service and dog sits
and sits and goes, hangs out atthe barn and volunteers at the
(53:22):
barn and rides horses.
Just keep following the littlethings.
And yeah, don't make it wrong,keep following the little things
.
And yeah, don't make it wrong,because that's just like Tony
Robbins also has this sayingstop shitting all over yourself
and shitting over everybody else.
Like, stop the shoulds.
Right, like I should be doingthis, I should be doing that and
(53:42):
they should be doing this.
Well, who are you?
How do you know?
Mary (53:48):
You're so not gonna be surprised about this.
I do many episodes.
The one that dropped today iscalled Stop Shooting All Over
Yourself.
I am not kidding you.
So talk about vibrationsconnecting.
That's just amazing.
And you're right, we have thisidea of what we should be doing
and all it does is stress us out.
So, yeah, so that's my.
(54:10):
That was my little under fiveminute mini episode from today.
Okay so circle.
Yeah, so can you tell us, andI'll put this again, I'll put in
the show notes Can you tell us?
Dr. Sue (54:21):
where to find you.
Yes, so the easiest way to findme is on my website,
drsuemccreadie.
com.
Mary (54:27):
Okay, sounds good, and there's the quiz on there and
they can find out from that.
It sort of leads them into sortof some options to work with
you, right.
Dr. Sue (54:37):
Yes, yes, exactly Exactly.
Take the quiz, it's fun.
It's true, it is fun, yeah.
Mary (54:43):
Take the quiz.
It's not a big long thing, it'sjust very fun and it's I think
it's a great starting point toexplore.
So beautiful.
Dr. Sue (54:50):
Thank you so much, Mary .
Mary (54:51):
Thank you for being here.
This has been a greatconversation and I just like I'm
going to go through my wholeday now feeling just like like
I'm taking up even more of myspace.
Put your, put your crown on,I'm gonna dig it out of the
closet, and I want to thankeveryone for listening.
Please forward this episode tosomeone that you know would love
(55:12):
listening and, until next time,go out into the world and be
the amazing, resilient, vibrantViolet that you are.
Thank you.
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My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
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